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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we haven't just come

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Speaker 1: out of the courtroom, and what a morning it has been.

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Speaker 1: I Meancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thanks for being

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Speaker 1: with us. We are live at the courthouse here at

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Speaker 1: Colleton County. I want you to hear the first thing

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Speaker 1: this morning, how the whole session got kicked off. Take

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Speaker 1: a listen to our cut nine. A few days ago,

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Speaker 1: I received a complaint from a member of the public

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Speaker 1: indicating that a juror had engaged in improper conversations with

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Speaker 1: parties not associated with the case. J or denied discussing

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Speaker 1: the case with anyone not on the jury or with

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Speaker 1: anyone onto Cherry provided information that led us to contact

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Speaker 1: the persons that she was suspected of having conversations with

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Speaker 1: concerning the case. Those individuals were interviewed and provided an

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Speaker 1: affid David regarding the contact that the jury had juror

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Speaker 1: had with them and not suggesting that you intentionally did

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Speaker 1: anything wrong, but that in order to preserve the integrity

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Speaker 1: of the process and in fairness to all the parties involved,

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Speaker 1: we're going to replace you with one of the other jurors.

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Speaker 1: She just heard sound of the judge dismissing a juror.

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Speaker 1: Guys with me an all star panel to make sense

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Speaker 1: of what's happening in the courtroom right now? Straight out

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Speaker 1: to Eric Bland, hyper if I a lawyer who represented

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Speaker 1: a satafil family, Eric, I can't hear you, but I

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Speaker 1: hope you can hear me. What do you make of

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Speaker 1: the judge throwing off the juror? The reason is because

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Speaker 1: the juror disregarded his directive. He told the jury in

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Speaker 1: the beginning when they took their oath that they have

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Speaker 1: to listen to him, that they cannot make up their minds,

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Speaker 1: that they cannot begin to deliberate before he releases the

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Speaker 1: evidence and the case to them after he charges them

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Speaker 1: on the law. And this juror obviously made some comments

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Speaker 1: to someone that would indicate that that oath was in

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Speaker 1: jeopardy and maybe that there were other jurors who complained

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Speaker 1: that possibly that j had infect was trying to infect

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Speaker 1: the jury room. This is a very serious thing. Both

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Speaker 1: sides want to have a full and fair opportunity to

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Speaker 1: present their cases, and the judge was left with no choice.

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Speaker 1: Eric Bland has been one thing after the next with

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Speaker 1: the jury. I got word yesterday from a source that's

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Speaker 1: been in the courthouse with me that said, two girars,

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Speaker 1: we're actually having words. In fact, one jar said to

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Speaker 1: the other, the f you will. Okay. I don't know

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Speaker 1: which two gars said that, but that did happen. I mean,

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Speaker 1: what are they arguing about their lunch order? If they're

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Speaker 1: arguing before they even begin deliberations, that's a bad sign. Well,

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Speaker 1: it is a bad sign, and it's going to show

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Speaker 1: that there is some hard feelings that probably developed when

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Speaker 1: you have this group of different people being put in

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Speaker 1: a room and they can't get to know each other

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Speaker 1: by talking about the case, and then people developed factions

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Speaker 1: where two people start to be close with two people

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Speaker 1: and then another group of people. I think this is

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Speaker 1: a portend to what this jury is going to do.

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Speaker 1: I think we're going to see smoking fireworks from that

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Speaker 1: jury room. I don't think we're going to hear peace

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Speaker 1: and quiet. I have some legitimate concerns when you have

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Speaker 1: a six week trial and there is this strong feelings. Look,

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Speaker 1: I'm shaking right now, Nancy. I just heard some of

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Speaker 1: the best oratorial lawyering by John Meaders. I mean that

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Speaker 1: was from the heart. Okay, I gotta tell you something, Bland.

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Speaker 1: John Meaders gave what I consider to be the best

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Speaker 1: summation we have heard. I want to hear some of that.

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Speaker 1: Let's start with cut twenty one, Christine, Cut twenty one. Now,

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Speaker 1: remember you had the state's closing argument. But in this jurisdiction,

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Speaker 1: like many many others, the majority actually in our country,

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Speaker 1: the state has a burden of proof. So the state

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Speaker 1: begins closing arguments closing argument number one. The defense comes,

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Speaker 1: and then the state has a final closing argument. They

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Speaker 1: get the last word in nearly every criminal case unless

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Speaker 1: the defendant puts up no evidence other than her own

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Speaker 1: testimony that did not fit in this category glory. So

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Speaker 1: Matters got the last closing argument, and he made the

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Speaker 1: most of it. Take a listen hour Cut twenty one.

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Speaker 1: I don't know why he killed his wife and son.

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Speaker 1: I don't have to say one. I think he did

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Speaker 1: it to protect the one he loved the most, the

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Speaker 1: one he really loved the most, so he could keep

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Speaker 1: his lifestyle and not be embarrassed financially. He wanted to

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Speaker 1: keep going and loving Alice. You are hearing Matters lay

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Speaker 1: it down in front of this jury. Bland. I agree,

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Speaker 1: with you, Kelly skin with me. Fox Nations senior producer

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Speaker 1: John Matters by far exceeded all the other closing arguments.

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Speaker 1: Agree or disagree. I agree. I think he put this

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Speaker 1: case in layman's terms and said, look, this is common sense,

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Speaker 1: and don't get distracted by the smoke and mirrors that

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Speaker 1: Dick Harpulian is so well known for. This is common sense.

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Speaker 1: Alec Murdoch lied about being at the scene, and therefore

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Speaker 1: Alec Murdoch is the only logical person that could have

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Speaker 1: killed and did have motives to kill Maggie and Paul,

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Speaker 1: And the only person that Alec loved more than Maggie

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Speaker 1: and Paul was Alec. Alex Mursie loved Alex Murdock more

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Speaker 1: than anybody else. Go ahead, Bland, I'm telling you the

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Speaker 1: visual that he painted at the end, that both Maggie

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Speaker 1: and Paul testified, and that Paul had the insurance policy

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Speaker 1: to make sure his father would not lie in infamy

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Speaker 1: about what infamy about what happened in those murders. He

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Speaker 1: did the video, and Maggie testified, Yes, I was shot

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Speaker 1: five times, but I made sure the shell casings were

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Speaker 1: next to my body. And then Bubba I'm telling you

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Speaker 1: that's why you and I became lawyers, to feel it

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Speaker 1: from the heart. He talked, He didn't read. It was

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Speaker 1: from his bones, Nancy, from his bones. You know, I

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Speaker 1: really admired that about his clothing. He was not looking

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Speaker 1: at his notes and flipping pages. He was telling it

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Speaker 1: like it is. And there towards the end, and I

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Speaker 1: want to go to you on this, doctor Michelle Dufree.

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Speaker 1: One thing he said was that he would still be

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Speaker 1: lying on the ground hugging his son, trying to bring

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Speaker 1: the son back to life. How could you do that

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Speaker 1: and take poles and go back and call nine one

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Speaker 1: one all in twenty seconds. You've seen you've been by Moselle.

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Speaker 1: I agree with him, doctor Michelle Dufree. Nancy, I agree

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Speaker 1: with them also. And again I do not know how

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Speaker 1: at that critical incident, when you are right there the

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Speaker 1: night of the murders, when you're being interviewed, how can

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Speaker 1: you not tell the police everything that you know. If

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Speaker 1: you're innocent, you want these people or this person found.

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Speaker 1: And Alex didn't do that. Instead he made up a lie.

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Speaker 1: You know. That's another thing that John Metters hit and

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Speaker 1: he hit it hard and our cut eighteen exactly what

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Speaker 1: doctor Michelle Dupree just said, Christie, because you play our

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Speaker 1: cut eighteen. I find it defensive that the defense see

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Speaker 1: the defendant, who was also a part time solicitor, is

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Speaker 1: claiming that law enforcement didn't do their job. Listen to

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Speaker 1: the police didn't do their job, while he is withholding

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Speaker 1: and obstructing justice by not saying I was down at

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Speaker 1: the kennels. I was down at the kennels. I was

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Speaker 1: down at the kennels, and he's gonna blame everybody else.

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Speaker 1: Is that offensive? Is that offensive? Griffin said a minute go.

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Speaker 1: Can you imagine coming up on the scene and seeing

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Speaker 1: Can you imagine not telling law enforcement lying that I

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Speaker 1: was down there and I saw him, I was right there.

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Speaker 1: Why wouldn't you tell them that? Maybe get some more

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Speaker 1: evidence that you hear somebody now, I wouldn't even down there.

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Speaker 1: Credibility believable. He really does sum it up time stories

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Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. I'm telling you the way Matters laid

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Speaker 1: it in front of the jury. I do not see

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Speaker 1: how they could turn away from his closing arguments, also

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Speaker 1: with me Kelly Ski and Kelly Foxtation's senior producer. Throughout

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Speaker 1: the defense's closing argument. Most of the gerars seemed stoic.

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Speaker 1: They were not really responding to the defense, except for

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Speaker 1: one lady that we call the blanket lady because I've

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Speaker 1: seen her pull her blanket up to right here, right

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Speaker 1: here during the courtroom. You've seen her pull all the

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Speaker 1: way over her head. I was very surprised she wasn't

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Speaker 1: taken off the jury when that happened. But that said,

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Speaker 1: I saw her nodding up and down vigorously during the

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Speaker 1: defense closing statement. Yeah, I saw her as well. It

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Speaker 1: looked like she was hanging on to every single word

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Speaker 1: of those closing arguments by Jim Griffin. Other jurors had there,

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Speaker 1: you know, they were looking stoically at Jim Griffin. I

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Speaker 1: did see one who wasn't even looking at him at all.

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Speaker 1: It's really hard to tell what the jury is thinking

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Speaker 1: at this point, especially after the major shake up this

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Speaker 1: morning where another juror was dismissed. So they've spent six

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Speaker 1: weeks together and they are just dropping off like flies,

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Speaker 1: and now we have one alternate juror left two Eric blind,

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Speaker 1: speaking of the jirars, what is your understanding of what

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Speaker 1: this lady Girard did to get thrown off the jury.

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Speaker 1: She evidently told somebody who reported it to Judge Newman

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Speaker 1: that she made up her mind. Now I don't know

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Speaker 1: whether she said, you know, on innocence or guilt, but

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Speaker 1: it's completely unacceptable. It is something. I can totally tell

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Speaker 1: you what she said. You were in the courtroom with me,

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Speaker 1: Bland sitting right behind me, because they three were off

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Speaker 1: the jury. The state went okay, and the defense said, well,

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Speaker 1: I don't like it because this and this. I'm blah

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Speaker 1: blah blah. Obviously she was pro defense, or the defense

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Speaker 1: would not have been squawking and clucking about in the

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Speaker 1: courtroom which he got thrown off. Correct. I just don't

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Speaker 1: want to impugne somebody's character. But I am upset that,

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Speaker 1: you know, they didn't listen to the jinks. You think

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Speaker 1: it's impening her character that she was pro defense. No,

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Speaker 1: I'm just saying I don't want to hammer somebody. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'm upset that that that jurors are not listening to

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Speaker 1: this judge. This judge has given his time, He has

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Speaker 1: been as even temperamental as you can imagine. He hasn't

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Speaker 1: bitten anybody's head off, He hasn't fallen asleep. He hasn't

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Speaker 1: tried to take over the courtroom. You've had judges who

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Speaker 1: take over a courtroom start asking questions. Um. This guy,

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Speaker 1: from a Solomon like wisdom standpoint, has been great. Um.

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Speaker 1: And I think you know he was joking about the

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Speaker 1: eggs and all, but in his heart, I think he

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Speaker 1: was upset. You know, he doesn't want the jury to

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Speaker 1: be jeopardized. Thank you said too, Because we're out, We're

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Speaker 1: now down to one alternate and go ahead, and don't forget.

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Speaker 1: Two months ago, at the Russell de Fee trial that

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Speaker 1: I was at in federal court, Judge Gurgel had to

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Speaker 1: remove two jurors from the deliberations. In the middle of

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Speaker 1: deliberations because of the One said that she refused to

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Speaker 1: deliberate any further, and another said that she was getting

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Speaker 1: anxious and felt her health was at risk. Listen, that

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Speaker 1: could be what we're going to see in here. And

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Speaker 1: we need twelve jurors. Remember, can't can't compromise in do

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Speaker 1: an eleven person jury in a murder case. It's got

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Speaker 1: to be twelve by the constitution. Butt to Kelly's ski

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Speaker 1: and Kelly when the lady Gerard left, the judge asked

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Speaker 1: her an open court, well what do you have left

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Speaker 1: in the jury room, and she said, well, my purse

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Speaker 1: and my water, and I brought a dozen eggs in

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Speaker 1: or a dozen eggs for the jury. And he says, okay,

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Speaker 1: to the sheriff, go get that for her, and she said,

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Speaker 1: I want to take my eggs with me. So she

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Speaker 1: took her water she did burst and her eggs. So

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Speaker 1: that was a little levity of the corman, which you

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Speaker 1: wanted to take the eggs back that she had brought

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Speaker 1: for the jurars. But I could tell she was upset,

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Speaker 1: and I could tell the judge does not lie losing

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Speaker 1: yet another jurar. So she did. She told the judge

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Speaker 1: she left a dozen eggs that she had brought in

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Speaker 1: for the jurors from her farm, her purse and her

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Speaker 1: water in the chambers and which she was not allowed

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Speaker 1: to go back into. Once she was dismissed, she was

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Speaker 1: brought downstairs. I went downstairs. She looked very shaken, almost embarrassed.

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Speaker 1: And I think something that's really important here is she

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Speaker 1: lied about it. When she was asked if she had

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Speaker 1: discussed the case, she said no, and we had to

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Speaker 1: in effect have another trial within the trial to get

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Speaker 1: to the bottom of this, where they brought in three

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Speaker 1: different people, got them on the record and said no,

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Speaker 1: this woman did give an opinion about the case. The

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Speaker 1: judge said, look, I know it's probably really hard to

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Speaker 1: stay away from media coverage for this case, but bottom

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Speaker 1: line is you of my rules. I can't budge, I'm

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Speaker 1: not you gotta go. Yeah, I could tell she was

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Speaker 1: embarrassed when she left. Guys. Another very odd statement was

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Speaker 1: made during the defense closing argument. Attorney Griffin was talking

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Speaker 1: about was Alex Murdoch still home when his wife and

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Speaker 1: son were murdered? And Griffin says, I don't know, maybe

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Speaker 1: he was. Okay, that's not a good look for Murdoch

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Speaker 1: being there when Maggie and Paul were murdered, but that

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Speaker 1: is what the defense said. Take a listen to our

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Speaker 1: cut seventeen. This is defense attorney Griffin arguing to the jury.

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Speaker 1: So we do know from the timeline that Alec left

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Speaker 1: the property at nine oh seven. Were they killed before

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Speaker 1: he left? I don't know the answer to that. I

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Speaker 1: don't know the answer to that. But we do know

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Speaker 1: that if he was in the house when the shots

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Speaker 1: were made of the kennel, that he would not have

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Speaker 1: heard them. Yeah right, Okay, I've been saving this moment

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Speaker 1: for Joe Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author

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Speaker 1: of Blood Beneath My Feet and Star of Bodybacks that

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Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan podcast. Okay, Joe Scott, could you believe

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Speaker 1: your ears when you heard the defense place their client

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Speaker 1: at Moselle when his wife and son are murdered at Moselle.

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Speaker 1: Not hear the gunshots my rear end. Of course you

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Speaker 1: could hear those gunshots. Of course you could. You're talking

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Speaker 1: about a high velocity round, multiple high velocity rounds coming

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Speaker 1: out of this three hundred blackout. Not to mention if

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Speaker 1: anyone has ever heard the report of a twelve gage

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Speaker 1: shotgun not just once but twice. Nancy, we know that

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Speaker 1: we have that confirmed. You got to be living under

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Speaker 1: a rock, and there's no way acoustically that you could

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Speaker 1: not appreciate that sound, the crack of that rifle. That rifle,

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Speaker 1: it fires a super personic round. That means that it

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Speaker 1: breaks the sound barrier as it's exiting that muzzle. There's

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Speaker 1: no way you could not have heard that. And people

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Speaker 1: talk about the distance from the house down to that

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Speaker 1: complex down there. It's not that far away. You could

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Speaker 1: certainly hear that, Nancy. You'd smell the question, Nancy, it's

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Speaker 1: urban warfare. You would smell a little bit of gunpowder.

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Speaker 1: I'm telling you. But even if the defense attorney is arguing,

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Speaker 1: which I think he was trying to, that Murdo was

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Speaker 1: up in the house area of Mozelle, that he would

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Speaker 1: not have heard the gunshots as close as a kittel

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Speaker 1: was to the home, that is just not true. Chris

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Speaker 1: mcdunna joining me, Drec dreg Coldcase Foundation, former homicide detective

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Speaker 1: and host of The Interview Room on YouTube. What about it?

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Speaker 1: Chris mcdonnah, You know, I think Joe nailed it. There

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Speaker 1: is no way that if he's down there, which we

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Speaker 1: know he is, because the kennel video that you know,

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Speaker 1: you have seven shots going off too from the shotgun,

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Speaker 1: and you know another five from the the r or

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Speaker 1: the blackout. You know that sound travels forever in that area.

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Speaker 1: I mean I went out there and stood there on

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Speaker 1: the street. It was so quiet in the middle of

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Speaker 1: the day. It even gets worse at night, and so

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Speaker 1: there's no way he didn't hear those gunshots go off.

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Speaker 1: Now you know, Christine, I want to hold on, Eric,

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Speaker 1: I just want Christine to show something while you're talking.

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Speaker 1: I want to get thank you for the video number one, Christine,

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Speaker 1: but I'd like to get to where the dog kennel

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Speaker 1: is and the feed room. Just keep playing it because

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Speaker 1: we're going to get to it. Because I don't believe

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Speaker 1: that all of those structures even have walls. Some of

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Speaker 1: them are more like pavilion like right that's it. Say,

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Speaker 1: right there, that's a pavilion type atmosphere, and if the

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Speaker 1: gun was fired in that area, there's not even a

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Speaker 1: wall to protect the sound. Now that is definitely inside

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Speaker 1: right there. Okay, what were you saying? Eric? I have

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Speaker 1: represented homeowners that reside near gun ranges and we've sued

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Speaker 1: them over public nuisance. I've had two of those cases,

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Speaker 1: and I've had experts come in and we've had the

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Speaker 1: judge come out and on site. Listen to these gunshots

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Speaker 1: go off. Do you see that? That's what I'm talking about.

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Speaker 1: They were not even walled in and now inside in there. Yes,

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Speaker 1: high power dear rifle arsenal travels the sound for two miles, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: two miles, not just nine hundred feet two Miles. I

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Speaker 1: was just wondering if any of the jars actually are falling.

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Speaker 1: For the theory that no one would hear the gunshot,

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Speaker 1: I mean, just got Morgan. I'm not talking about a

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Speaker 1: little twenty two talking about a high power three hundred

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Speaker 1: blackout and a shot gun. For Pete's sake. Yeah, I can't.

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Speaker 1: I can't imagine that they would. And here's something else

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Speaker 1: you kind of have to factor in, Nancy, where was

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Speaker 1: this jury full? Remember that we're in a rural area.

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Speaker 1: There are a lot of people that possess weapons and

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Speaker 1: have been around weapons. They've been around weapons because a

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Speaker 1: lot of people hunt, Nancy. People are familiar with the

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Speaker 1: sound of weapons. Yes, And you know, I can imagine

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Speaker 1: of sitting back good thinking, oh my god. You know

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Speaker 1: you're saying you couldn't hear that they've been out there. Now, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: remember they took a bus ride. This it's a good point. Guys.

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Speaker 1: I want to hear that one more time, if you

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Speaker 1: don't mind, Chris Stine, could you play that one more time?

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Speaker 1: Our cut seventeen. Now, remember this isn't the state, This

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Speaker 1: is the defense attorney Griffin claiming, Hey, he could have

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Speaker 1: been there when they were murdered. Did he not understand

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Speaker 1: what he was saying? Take a listen. So we do

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Speaker 1: know from the timeline that Alec left the property at

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Speaker 1: nine o seven. Were they killed before you left? I

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Speaker 1: don't know the answer to that. I don't know the

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Speaker 1: answer to that. But we do know that if he

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Speaker 1: was in the house when the shots were made down

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Speaker 1: at the kennel, that he would not have heard them. Okay,

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Speaker 1: now I want you to hear the response by this state,

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Speaker 1: and this is John Matters arguing in our cut twenty.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen. Two Matters laying it down. Maybe you

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Speaker 1: just got angry. Maybe he got angry at Paul. Maybe

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Speaker 1: he got you know, you started all this with the

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Speaker 1: boat case, and maybe you just lost it. Maybe you

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Speaker 1: just lost it. Maybe he will look like the suicide

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Speaker 1: and then Maggie came and he had to shoot her.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Only one person knows. And that's why

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Speaker 1: we've got the motive. That's why we say he did it,

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Speaker 1: but we didn't left that money just angry. He did it.

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Speaker 1: Nobody else could have done it. Nobody else did do it.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna get to that, and that's how we proved

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Speaker 1: beyond and of course, it was never overtly argued Kelly's

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Speaker 1: skin affects Fox Nation senior producer that if he didn't

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Speaker 1: do it, who did That was not actually argued, but

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Speaker 1: it's really clear from Matter's argument that that's what he's saying.

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Speaker 1: He's the only one that could have done it. I mean,

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Speaker 1: think about it. Who else could have done it? Kelly?

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Speaker 1: These spirits, the specter that was on the internet and

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Speaker 1: became angry over the boat crash and then sought vengeance

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Speaker 1: by killing not just Paul, but Paul and Maggie. And wow,

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Speaker 1: darn Murdo just missed it by an instant. I mean,

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Speaker 1: according to Matters, Murdo would have had to have passed

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Speaker 1: the killer going out the driveway. I mean, Chris Daine,

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Speaker 1: could you show an aerial of Mozille, that long sweeping

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Speaker 1: driveway they goes up to the home and the kennels

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Speaker 1: and the gunshot range. I guess they passed each other

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Speaker 1: in route. Kelly, Well, yeah, Nancy, And we heard another

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Speaker 1: theory from Jim Griffin today, But maybe it was Alex

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Speaker 1: drug dealer. Maybe Paul Murdoch found the person who was

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Speaker 1: supplying Alec Murdoch's drugs confronted them said please stop selling

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Speaker 1: drugs to my dad. Griffin alleged that this person was

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Speaker 1: part of a very dangerous gang down here, and that

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Speaker 1: gang then retaliated by killing Maggie and Paul at the

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Speaker 1: same time. If that shooter would have had to know

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Speaker 1: that Maggie and Paul were at the kennels at that

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Speaker 1: exact same time and hope that Alec Murdoch wouldn't find

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Speaker 1: them killing his wife and son. We also heard today

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Speaker 1: Jim Griffin explain away Alec Murdoch's lies as quote just

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Speaker 1: misstatements and saying, quote that Alec Murdock it's not it's

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Speaker 1: irrational for him to kill. But throughout this entire trial

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Speaker 1: we have heard from the defense themselves that Alec Murdock

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Speaker 1: was irrational because of his addiction. Well, exactly, I want

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Speaker 1: you to listen to cut fourteen. That is exactly what

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Speaker 1: Kelly's skin just described. Listen. Another curious point, and mister

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Speaker 1: Water's closing argument yesterday involves Paul's intuitive talents. You will

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Speaker 1: recall that Alex's inform agents that Paul was an intuitive

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Speaker 1: little dude virtue as a detective, that Miriam Proctor, Maggie's

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Speaker 1: sister said that that Maggie referred to Paul is this

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Speaker 1: little detective, her a little detective, and particularly when it

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Speaker 1: came to trying to root out whether I was still

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Speaker 1: doing drawings, and then he sort of left it there

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Speaker 1: for you to then take it and run with it.

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Speaker 1: As if Paul must have found alec use and drugs,

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Speaker 1: there must have been a confrontation down there at the counter,

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Speaker 1: and that must have been what happened. Now, now he

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Speaker 1: didn't go that far in his argument, but he laid

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Speaker 1: it out there for you to run with. But that

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Speaker 1: was clearly the implication. Let me out another scenario, this

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Speaker 1: equally as plausible. What if Paul the detective learn the

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Speaker 1: source of drugs that were being sold to his dad.

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Speaker 1: What if Paul the detective goes to that drug source,

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Speaker 1: it's my dad, You're in my family, and if you don't,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell on you, turn you in a drug gang.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to tell on you where did that come from? Land? What? Nancy?

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Speaker 1: A drug gang has their own guns, Nancy. They don't

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Speaker 1: come to kill somebody and hope there'll be guns in

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Speaker 1: the house that they could steal and then shoot you

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Speaker 1: with them. They have their own weaponry, and they don't

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Speaker 1: use long rifles. They use guns, and they come up

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Speaker 1: and they execute shoot you with a handgun. It is

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Speaker 1: preposterous to posture, to posture the fact that these people

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Speaker 1: came to kill Paul and Maggie with no guns. That's

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Speaker 1: just insulting. Exactly, Nancy, that's that's a crazy idea. Go ahead,

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Speaker 1: dodgor degree. So I totally agree with Eric Gland, that's

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Speaker 1: a crazy idea. In addition, if you'll remember one of

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Speaker 1: the interviews, Alex actually said no, no one else was here.

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Speaker 1: He was asked, were the dog's misbehaving as if there

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Speaker 1: was an unknown person or persons around? He said, no, no,

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Speaker 1: they were not. What does that tell you, Nancy? There's

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Speaker 1: one more here? Go ahead, dear, Yeah, there's one more

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Speaker 1: point here. Remember what matters. When he was bringing down

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Speaker 1: the thunder and his closing there, he mentioned he mentioned

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Speaker 1: that the FBI had gotten involved helping slid this. What's

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Speaker 1: your imply not you, But what they're implying here is

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Speaker 1: that this is an organized crime event. Relative to that

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Speaker 1: BI has already involved. They would have they would have

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Speaker 1: sucked us out, They would have gotten a DA involved

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Speaker 1: in this as well, there's been no evidence of that,

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Speaker 1: so that that's something that you know, as they say

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Speaker 1: the Lowlands, that dog won't hunt guys. Our cut, Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: I want to hear it. Go ahead, Chris, She'll lay

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Speaker 1: it out there and let him run with it. Was

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Speaker 1: the word of the day because Alex has been doing

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Speaker 1: that from day one. And remember the interview in the

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Speaker 1: car where he introduced the idea of the cat and

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Speaker 1: or I may have seen them come on to the property.

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Speaker 1: I'm not really sure about that. So this narc cart,

426
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:49,879
Speaker 1: this narcotic hit now is just again another fabrication. Guys.

427
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 1: I was waiting for the defense to address the big lie,

428
00:27:55,280 --> 00:28:01,360
Speaker 1: the big lie about why he lied that very nine

429
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:05,439
Speaker 1: not when he was paranoid or afraid of sled, but

430
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 1: in the nine one one call, Alex Murdock had already

431
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 1: formulated a lie removing himself from the dog kennels. Kelly, skin,

432
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 1: I really thought you were going to fall off your

433
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 1: seat in the courtroom when defense attorney Griffin said he

434
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 1: lied to avoid scrutiny on himself. Describe that moment, Kelly.

435
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:33,439
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just unbelievable. He lied to avoid media

436
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 1: scrutiny and then he lied and then in turn found

437
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 1: himself in the middle of media and a murder investigation.

438
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 1: It just doesn't make sense, and it's yet another example

439
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 1: of the ever evolving story from Alec Murdock's defense team

440
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 1: of what happened that night? Was he home? Was he

441
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 1: not home? What is their story here? I don't even

442
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 1: know if the jury is following, But all they really

443
00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 1: have to do is plan that one set of reasonable doubt,

444
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 1: and I do think that that's their strategy confusion. Take

445
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 1: a listen to our cut one. They didn't have this

446
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 1: kennel video until April of twenty twenty two, when Paul's

447
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 1: phone was finally unlocked, and that changed everything. Opportunity being

448
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 1: at the scene of the crime when the murders occurred,

449
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 1: and more importantly, exposing the defendants lies about the most

450
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 1: important thing he could have told law enforcement? When was

451
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 1: the last time I saw my wife and child A lie?

452
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 1: Why in the world would an innocent, reasonable father and

453
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 1: husband lie about that, and lie about it so early?

454
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 1: And he could always say, well, Rogan must be mistaken.

455
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 1: I'm surprised, not if my times were right, was what

456
00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 1: he said. Why would he even things to lie about that?

457
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 1: If he were an innocent man. Okay, now here is

458
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 1: how the defense countered that their response to the big

459
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 1: lie and our cut twelve. Listen carefully to how they

460
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 1: explained it away in closing arguments. Listen, we're left with

461
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 1: the lie. Alex lied about being done on the kennels,

462
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 1: and frankly, probably wouldn't be sitting over there right now

463
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 1: he had not lied. And he told you why he lied.

464
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 1: He said he lied because that's what addicts do. He

465
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 1: lied because he had a closet full of skeletons that

466
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 1: he didn't want any more scrutiny on him, which is

467
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 1: the most ironic thing in the world, because depending on

468
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 1: which day of the week, their theory is that he

469
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 1: slaughter his wife and son to distract from an impending

470
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 1: financial investigation. But he puts himself in the middle of

471
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 1: a murder investigation, and he puts himself in the spotlight

472
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 1: of edia firestorm. I say a motive alms. He lied

473
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 1: because of his drug paranoida kicked in and he was

474
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 1: clearly in the throes of addiction when he didn't lie

475
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 1: for it is because he was covering up the fact

476
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 1: that they killed Maggie and Paul, Joe Scott Morgan, Professor forensics.

477
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 1: You and I've seen a lot of cases, but to

478
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 1: say a loving husband and a loving father. Of course,

479
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 1: the jury never got to hear about the affair he

480
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 1: had behind Maggie's back. But that every time they said

481
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 1: in court today about how much he loved Maggie and

482
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 1: how he worshiped Maggie and adored Maggie, all I could

483
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 1: think about was him having that affair and how upset

484
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 1: she was till the day she died about that. But

485
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 1: that said Joe Scott Morgan, to say, I lied about

486
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 1: the last time I saw my child and wife alive

487
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 1: to avoid scrutiny on myself. I mean, did the jury

488
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 1: get that? Do you think how ridiculus that is? Yeah,

489
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 1: it is absurd, And this idea, Nancy, where they're falling back.

490
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: You know that he's an addicted person, that he's literally

491
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 1: a junkie, and this has come down, it's come down

492
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 1: to this now. But this is your defense. This is

493
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 1: the best that you have. You're saying that he's so

494
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 1: addled at this point in time, he has no perception

495
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 1: of what's going on, and you know, either it's one

496
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 1: way or it's another correct, this is what you're saying.

497
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 1: So you being addicted has led to all of these lies.

498
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 1: But yet it's a bridge too far to think that, yeah,

499
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 1: you may have gone in there and slaughtered your family. Okay,

500
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 1: well you know you've got lie after lie after lie.

501
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 1: And look, they have talked about that they don't have

502
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 1: to prove motive. You've taught me that over all of

503
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 1: these years. I know that they don't. But when you

504
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 1: begin to piece this together, point by point by point

505
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 1: on this continuum, it's powerful stuff. And it comes to

506
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 1: this conclusion at the end that staring everybody in the face,

507
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 1: certainly that jury is they're going to go back into

508
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 1: that into that room. And now, guys, I want to

509
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 1: hear it one more time. Go ahead, doctor Dupree. So

510
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 1: we're forgetting something. Alex never thought he would get caught.

511
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 1: That's one reason he lied. He never thought he'd be caught.

512
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 1: He is too smart. Together, you're leading me to another point,

513
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 1: doctor Dupree. No matter where I have been at the

514
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 1: Mexican restaurant last night, at and the lobby of the

515
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 1: hotel where we're staying here at the courthouse, I mean

516
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 1: at Walmart, every Gas station. Everywhere I have been, somebody

517
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 1: comes up and says, I'm from Carleton County. My dad

518
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 1: knew this, and my sister this, my cousin, all connected

519
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 1: to the Murnags. They have run this county for a

520
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 1: hundred years. I don't know if they're going to run

521
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 1: this jury too, But you're right, doctor Dupree. He never

522
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 1: thought he would get caught. He never knew that his

523
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 1: voice was captured on that video. That video is damning.

524
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 1: I want you to hear again the defense trying to

525
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 1: explain why he gave the big lie, and I was

526
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 1: writing in the courtroom, the defense explanation falls flat on

527
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 1: the big question. Listen to cut twelve. We're left with

528
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 1: the lie. Alex lied about being done on the kennels,

529
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 1: and frankly, probably wouldn't be sitting over there right now

530
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,439
Speaker 1: he had not lied, And he told you why he lied.

531
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 1: He said he lied because that's what addicts do. He

532
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 1: lied because he had a closet full of skeletons that

533
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 1: he didn't want any more scrutiny on him, which is

534
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 1: the most ironic thing in the world, because depending on

535
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 1: which day of the week, their theory is that he

536
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 1: slaughter his wife and son to distract from an impending

537
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 1: financial investigation. But he puts himself in the middle of

538
00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:00,800
Speaker 1: a murder investigation, and he puts himself in the spotlight

539
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 1: of a media firestorm. Now say a motive alopmus, he

540
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 1: lied because of his drug paranoida kicked in and he

541
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 1: was clearly in the throes of addiction. When he didn't

542
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 1: lie for it is because he was covering up the

543
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 1: fact that he killed Maggie Paul Time stories with Nancy Grace,

544
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:34,399
Speaker 1: you know, back to you, jes Scott Morgan. Let's talk

545
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:38,799
Speaker 1: about something that you and doctor Dupree is your expertise.

546
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 1: Let's talk about blood. Because I realized for the first

547
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 1: time when John Matters said it that that's water I

548
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 1: hear running in the background of that video. And he

549
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 1: argued to the jury that right there, Alex Murdog used

550
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 1: that host to clean themself up totally, not in the

551
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 1: shower and the lodge at Moselle, but right there, and

552
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 1: you do hear the water in the background of that video. Yeah,

553
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 1: I think that that's potentially plausible. You going to this

554
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 1: idea of cleaning, you know, I've held you know, one

555
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 1: of the things I couldn't get past in this when

556
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 1: you were talking, when people were talking about the house

557
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 1: and this word thing, why didn't they take out the

558
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 1: drain traps in the house a look for tissue. I'm

559
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 1: not talking about blood. I'm talking about actual tissue. Because

560
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:35,280
Speaker 1: think about how violent Paul's death was, and we've already

561
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 1: heard about tissue, and I'm thinking, you know, that's one

562
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 1: of the things we do with crime scenes. We take

563
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 1: drain traps out, we look for bits of tissue and

564
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. Hadn't heard anything about that. But

565
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 1: out there at that kennel, if you're renting off with

566
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,400
Speaker 1: a hose, there wouldn't be drain traps to take apart.

567
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 1: I'm wondering how well they searched that area, if there

568
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 1: was anything particulate that they found out there that could

569
00:36:55,520 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 1: be associated with him being present for that blast essentially,

570
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 1: you know, because Paul was in a very enclosed area,

571
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:07,320
Speaker 1: wasn't kind of outside where Maggie was shot, so that

572
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 1: to be dispersed upon him, it would have left something behind,

573
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 1: you know, another thing that happened, and I'd really like

574
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 1: to hear doctor dupre wagh in on this. In the

575
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 1: final closing with John Metters. He discussed how really the

576
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 1: state is damned if they do, and they're damned if

577
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:30,400
Speaker 1: they don't. He described the blood evidence that was tested

578
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:34,279
Speaker 1: on Murdoch's shirt, the one he was wearing, not the

579
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 1: one that disappeared forever, but the one that he was

580
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 1: wearing at the beginning. It seemed initially that there were

581
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 1: blood spatter, there was blood spatter on there, when it

582
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:48,280
Speaker 1: turned out that it was not, and that makes perfect

583
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 1: sense because he changed into a clean shirt. The state

584
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 1: did not try to present that, but then at trial

585
00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 1: in closing arguments, the defense turned it around to pretend

586
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 1: into that the state had somehow misappropriated that evidence and

587
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 1: used it against the defense. So they're damned if they

588
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 1: make the test, and then they're damned if they don't

589
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 1: bring that evidence in its trial, right, Nancy, And again,

590
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:18,759
Speaker 1: you know this is why we do something. We do

591
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 1: a presumptive test first and then a confirmatory test. And

592
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 1: I'm not sure how this information got mixed up, but

593
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:28,719
Speaker 1: it did. And you know that's not a good thing.

594
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:33,320
Speaker 1: But the point is, you know, Alex could very easily

595
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:36,399
Speaker 1: have cleaned up right there with that hose at that time.

596
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,719
Speaker 1: You've already heard testimony that he has clothes all over.

597
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 1: What if he had a change of clothes in his

598
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:43,920
Speaker 1: car and he cleaned up right, then it would be

599
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 1: very easy to do. There'd been witnesses that even said

600
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:50,240
Speaker 1: that he looked like he was fresh, he had a shower.

601
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 1: It just doesn't make sense. Well, the defense attacks the state,

602
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 1: as I always describe it, when you've got nowhere to

603
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 1: go and you're like a funeral and m trapped in

604
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 1: the corner, you have to lash out. You have to

605
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 1: blame somebody. So who are they going to blame? A

606
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:12,320
Speaker 1: drug gang, a phantom killer, a random vigilante. None of

607
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 1: that's really sticky. So you know what, don't look here,

608
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:20,320
Speaker 1: look here, Blame Sled, Blame law enforcement. It's all their fault.

609
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:24,160
Speaker 1: Take a listen in our cut ten how the defense

610
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:33,759
Speaker 1: claims that Sled quote failed miserably. On June seventh, twenty one,

611
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:41,280
Speaker 1: Alec Martin called nine one one and Officer Deputy Green

612
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:43,960
Speaker 1: and then followed by other deputies rolled up on the scene.

613
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 1: And he is standing on his property. His wife and

614
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 1: son lie dead and a pool of blood each. He's

615
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 1: within yards of him, and he just put shotgun down.

616
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 1: So he's in the circle by virtue of calling nine

617
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 1: one one, and that's fair enough. What doesn't strike us

618
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 1: as fair is that the next morning, on June eighth,

619
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 1: after the gruesome murders of Maggie and Paul Caldon County

620
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 1: and Sled that says at this time there's no danger

621
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 1: to the Coldlan. Does that tell you that on June

622
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:34,240
Speaker 1: eight law enforcement had decided it had to be Ellen

623
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:39,360
Speaker 1: murdered a Ford, he is at the mercy, he is

624
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 1: at the mercy of the ability of Sled to exclude

625
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:51,760
Speaker 1: him from that. Sir, we believe that we've shown conclusively

626
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:56,800
Speaker 1: that SLED failed miserably in investigating this case. You know what,

627
00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:00,359
Speaker 1: Chris McDonald, former homicide detective, now starved the interview room

628
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:03,879
Speaker 1: on YouTube. That's just part of the deal that comes

629
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:07,400
Speaker 1: with the package of being in law enforcement, being a prosecutor.

630
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:10,799
Speaker 1: You are going to be attacked and you are going

631
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 1: to be blamed no matter how well you do your job. Look,

632
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 1: there is in every case I tried that went up

633
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 1: on appeal, I didn't have a single one where I

634
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:27,239
Speaker 1: wasn't accused of prosecutorial misconduct. At the first maybe ten

635
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 1: or twelve times, I would be so upset. I took

636
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:33,759
Speaker 1: it so personally. Then I got I figured it out

637
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:37,759
Speaker 1: an older prosecutor in the office that that happens on

638
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:41,840
Speaker 1: every appeal. It's not about you. That's what they do,

639
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 1: and that's what's happening here. I mean, Chris McDonough, have

640
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:48,719
Speaker 1: you ever been accused of misconduct? Oh? Absolutely, Nancy. I mean,

641
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:51,800
Speaker 1: I've worked over three hundred murders in my career, and

642
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:54,840
Speaker 1: you know, two hundred ninety nine of them are perfect,

643
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 1: and then there's that one right where you get hung

644
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 1: out to dry. Here. I mean, I think for the

645
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:09,600
Speaker 1: very first time, Alec is being held accountable. And unfortunately

646
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:12,840
Speaker 1: they're the only tactic they can use is to blame

647
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 1: the other guy, Ie Sled and the investigators and the

648
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 1: and the system as a whole. But I think I

649
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 1: think the system's going to work here. I love the

650
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:25,880
Speaker 1: state seal in Latin where it says, well I breathe,

651
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 1: I hope. Well that really hit home because just talking

652
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 1: about it, Joe Scott Morgan death investigator, You've been on

653
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:37,279
Speaker 1: so many homicide scenes. I mean, what was the state

654
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 1: supposed to do? They see the T shirt. It looks

655
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 1: like there are blood spatters, very pinpoint spatters near the top.

656
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:49,320
Speaker 1: They haven't tested. They were wrong. It wasn't blood, so

657
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 1: they didn't use it. What are they supposed to do?

658
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:53,840
Speaker 1: Not test it because they might be wrong. No, you

659
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 1: have to test it. As a matter of fact. You

660
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 1: have to exhaust every possible avenue that you have as

661
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 1: an investigator a forensic standpoint, you collect everything that there is,

662
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:05,360
Speaker 1: and I don't care how long it takes you. I

663
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 1: work cases where we rode away from the scene with

664
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 1: van loads and I'm talking about multiple vanloads of evidence

665
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 1: where that have to be tested. You have to pursue everything.

666
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:19,360
Speaker 1: The biggest disappointment I think that I have in this

667
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:22,799
Speaker 1: case is this absence of weapons, though, but I think

668
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:26,399
Speaker 1: that there's an answer to that question. Ni. I find

669
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 1: it fascinating when they talk about him going to his parents' home,

670
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 1: you know, after the fact, you know, a week or

671
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 1: so later and he's taken out a four wheeler or

672
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:39,680
Speaker 1: something like this. I'm wondering how thoroughly all of these

673
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 1: properties have been examined. I'm wondering if there are old

674
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:45,759
Speaker 1: wells on these properties where those weapons could have been

675
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 1: disposed of. Are they sitting at the bottom of an

676
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:52,280
Speaker 1: old abandoned, Well, is there some other place they haven't looked?

677
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 1: Those weapons are out there somewhere they didn't just vaporize.

678
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:58,440
Speaker 1: So that's that's my one big thing, and I think

679
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 1: that that's one of the biggest hurdles that that jury

680
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 1: is going to have to overcome. People want to see

681
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:05,840
Speaker 1: a weapon, and that's going to be one of the biggest,

682
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:10,440
Speaker 1: biggest steam You know, doctor Michelle Dupree. We have gone

683
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:15,240
Speaker 1: and we've driven all around Moseelle looking at how vast

684
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 1: the property is. I think that one day, maybe not

685
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 1: in our lifetime, but one day somebody will find those weapons.

686
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 1: They're out there waiting to be found. They've been hidden

687
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:32,720
Speaker 1: somewhere that only one person knows. And he's not talking

688
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,400
Speaker 1: doctor Dupree. I think you're right, Nancy. I mean this

689
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 1: is seventeen hundred acres. Much of it is swamp. I mean,

690
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 1: they could be literally anywhere, and you're right, there is

691
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:45,720
Speaker 1: only one person that knows where they are, doctor Dupree.

692
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 1: I was just talking about with Chris mcdonnah, how many

693
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 1: times when a defendant has nowhere to go, nothing to argue,

694
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 1: they begin blaming the cops. The cops did this. The

695
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 1: cops did that hey at worked to know j Simpson

696
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:03,400
Speaker 1: the jury, she fell for it. As a medical examiner,

697
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:05,839
Speaker 1: I mean I was thinking about doctor Reemer, who did

698
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 1: such a fantastic job and was just really just burning brilliant.

699
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 1: It just oozed out of her. But I could see

700
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 1: her getting upset and defensive when she was being attacked.

701
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:23,080
Speaker 1: That doesn't feel good for anybody in law enforcement when

702
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:26,719
Speaker 1: you give it your all and then you're accused of

703
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:31,680
Speaker 1: misconduct or doing a sloppy job. What did they want

704
00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 1: the state not to test the shirt because now they're

705
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 1: getting reamed out because the shirt was negative of the

706
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 1: state didn't bring it in Nancy. I think this is

707
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 1: really a great example of what we call that CSI effect.

708
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:46,319
Speaker 1: And I saw when I was a detective, and I've

709
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:49,919
Speaker 1: seen it as a medical examiner. The jury watches TV

710
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 1: and they expect everything to work the way it does

711
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:57,120
Speaker 1: on television, and it just doesn't. Every time I testify,

712
00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:00,040
Speaker 1: nearly every time, I looked straight at the jury and

713
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:03,400
Speaker 1: I say, this is how it's really done. It's not

714
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 1: like on TV, and then I proceed to explain what

715
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:10,600
Speaker 1: the real situation is. We also saw Kelly skin the

716
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:15,320
Speaker 1: attack on police saying that they identified Murdoch as a

717
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 1: suspect at the beginning. And I remember right at the

718
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:22,759
Speaker 1: beginning when SLED released a statement Kelly, and you and

719
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:25,800
Speaker 1: I talked about it at the time stating the public

720
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:29,239
Speaker 1: is not in danger, and you and I say, wow,

721
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:33,400
Speaker 1: so he must think it's Murdoch. So that part is true.

722
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 1: But on the other hand, you've got two people single

723
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:42,440
Speaker 1: out in a remote location, killed execution style, riddled with bullets,

724
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 1: no rape, no sex attack, no robbery. So they were

725
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:53,279
Speaker 1: singled out, they were targeted. And because the victims were targeted,

726
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:57,439
Speaker 1: that means that the general population is not at risk.

727
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:00,840
Speaker 1: But you know, the defense did have a heyday with that.

728
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:04,600
Speaker 1: Would that big, huge poster of the press release saying

729
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:08,480
Speaker 1: the public is say, don't worry. Remember that inclosing arguments.

730
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:10,440
Speaker 1: I remember that, and I have a list of the

731
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:13,239
Speaker 1: things that SLED would have to manufacture here. So they

732
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 1: would have to manufacture the fact that these murders were

733
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 1: done with family weapons. They would have to manufacture Alec's

734
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 1: own alibi, and they would have to manufacture the fact

735
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:25,440
Speaker 1: that Alec lied about turning over the bodies before calling

736
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 1: nine on one. So another thing I think that we're

737
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:32,359
Speaker 1: also seeing here is Alec Murdoch's influence in this town

738
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:36,160
Speaker 1: is actually helping the defense possibly. We even heard that

739
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 1: while the police had a search warrant that they could

740
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:41,279
Speaker 1: execute at Moselle to search the house, they didn't do that.

741
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:43,319
Speaker 1: They offered to put the badge away. So I think

742
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 1: his influence impacting the investigation is actually possibly helping the

743
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:50,320
Speaker 1: defense here because they are using that to paint and

744
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:53,960
Speaker 1: sled as sloppy, and of course the defense hammered the theory.

745
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 1: Go ahead, a doctor. So again, every time we have

746
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:02,279
Speaker 1: such a targeted hit like this, which is what this was. Yes,

747
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:05,080
Speaker 1: the person who finds them or who costs nine one

748
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 1: one is going to be someone that we're going to

749
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:10,279
Speaker 1: be interested in. And just because we believe that the

750
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:14,200
Speaker 1: public is no longer at risk doesn't mean that we

751
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 1: are singling out and having what we call tunnel vision

752
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:21,080
Speaker 1: only looking at one suspect. You can have that, but

753
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:24,759
Speaker 1: still not just focus on one Nancy. Can I add

754
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:28,680
Speaker 1: some clarity for it as well? Sure? Please do what

755
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:31,920
Speaker 1: doctor Dupriya is talking about. So that's what we call

756
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:35,400
Speaker 1: the victim risk continuum, and what that means is if

757
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 1: you take an l for an example. And on this

758
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:42,359
Speaker 1: side you have environment, situation, circumstance, then you have low,

759
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:46,480
Speaker 1: medium or high risk activity. If everything starts going to

760
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:50,759
Speaker 1: the low risk based on the environment, situation and circumstance,

761
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:55,239
Speaker 1: that means this was a targeted event. Ie. The statistics

762
00:48:55,320 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 1: tell us that this individual who committed these crimes is

763
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 1: familiar with these victims and new and had some type

764
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:07,480
Speaker 1: of a relationship with the victim. If you go to

765
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 1: the other spectrum, then that is a stranger event. So

766
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:18,520
Speaker 1: everything told these investigators that night that it was definitely

767
00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:22,000
Speaker 1: somebody close to that environment, and that's where they came

768
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:25,359
Speaker 1: up with the terminology within the circle. Guys, I want

769
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:27,400
Speaker 1: you to hear where the defense will not let go

770
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:31,160
Speaker 1: and I completely understand it. The theory of two shooters.

771
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:34,239
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut sixteen. You know, the

772
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:37,880
Speaker 1: most common sense thing here is there were two shoots

773
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:46,399
Speaker 1: because there were two guns. And as mister Palmbott said,

774
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 1: one guns high capacity holds ten twenty thirty rounds. And

775
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:55,440
Speaker 1: if you're going down to execute somebody, one guns enough,

776
00:49:56,400 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 1: I'll take another gun that only has three shots. It's

777
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:06,880
Speaker 1: and doctor Kenzie agreed with the angle coming out of

778
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:09,799
Speaker 1: the bird the quealth end, so that the angle puts

779
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:12,920
Speaker 1: it pretty far away from the door of the feeder

780
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:15,440
Speaker 1: and where Paul was killed. But it's not our burden.

781
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:18,840
Speaker 1: It's not our burden, it's their burdens proved to you

782
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:23,800
Speaker 1: based on circumstantial evidence that all the circumstances are consistent

783
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:27,959
Speaker 1: with each other and point conclusively to the defendive's guilt

784
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:32,360
Speaker 1: beyond a reasonable doubt, and those facts are just not consistent. J.

785
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:35,160
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, what do you make of the two shooter theory. Well,

786
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 1: I think that one of the things that they're arguing

787
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:41,719
Speaker 1: here is certainly I thought about it, is that why

788
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:45,719
Speaker 1: in the world which you employ too long arm. You know,

789
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:48,719
Speaker 1: in the military you carry a primary weapon like an

790
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:51,400
Speaker 1: HIM for carbing, and you have a side arm. And

791
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 1: you see our troops transition, you see law enforcement do

792
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:56,400
Speaker 1: this as well. From one to one. I think that

793
00:50:56,560 --> 00:51:00,880
Speaker 1: they're promising reconstructionists that they had they being the defense,

794
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:04,160
Speaker 1: argue that it would be very cumbersome. Actually it's not.

795
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:07,800
Speaker 1: If the individual is wearing what's referred to as a

796
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 1: tactful sling on this three hundred blackout, you could chest

797
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 1: carry that very easy and still operate this twelve gage. Also,

798
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:18,759
Speaker 1: he's got control over this property. He can sequest or

799
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:22,800
Speaker 1: weapons anywhere he wants to and utilize them. Here's the

800
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 1: rub for the defense, and they're not addressing this, is

801
00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:29,239
Speaker 1: that if you want to try to make something look

802
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 1: like that they are two shooters, why not employ two

803
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:35,880
Speaker 1: weapons That would give you the thought that, hey, you know,

804
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:39,320
Speaker 1: we've got two weapons that are very difficult to manage.

805
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:42,480
Speaker 1: Technically you have to bring them to your shoulder to

806
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 1: fire them. It seems rather cumbersome. Well, it's the perfect

807
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:50,000
Speaker 1: scenario for that, So you know, you have to calculate

808
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:52,840
Speaker 1: all of this. Again, I think the jury, I don't know.

809
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:55,879
Speaker 1: At this point. You had mentioned how you understand why

810
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:58,560
Speaker 1: they're pursuing it, and I understand that too, because if

811
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:01,719
Speaker 1: there's one point that a jury could potentially hang up on,

812
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:04,040
Speaker 1: it's going to be the two shooter theory. Is it

813
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:07,680
Speaker 1: possible that this could that this could have been perpetrated

814
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:11,680
Speaker 1: by one person? And it can be difficult to prove exactly, Nancy.

815
00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:14,840
Speaker 1: And remember no, I think that this is Alex's attempt

816
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:18,960
Speaker 1: at what we call forensic countermeasures. He knows, he's very smart,

817
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 1: he knows that this is going to potentially throw off

818
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:26,839
Speaker 1: the investigation, and that is exactly why someone would do that. Well,

819
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:30,080
Speaker 1: I always compare it to you have a fork in

820
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:32,560
Speaker 1: one hand and a knife in the other. Nobody has

821
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:35,920
Speaker 1: a problem with that. An experienced shooter will have no

822
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:40,000
Speaker 1: problem with two guns, especially if you employ a sling.

823
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:46,440
Speaker 1: And seasoned hunters use slings. They don't trump through the

824
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:50,280
Speaker 1: woods holding the guns in their hands, they use a sling.

825
00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:53,920
Speaker 1: I find it very hard to believe that Murdog didn't

826
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:56,719
Speaker 1: have a sling. I want you to hear what I

827
00:52:56,840 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 1: thought was possibly one of the strongest arguments by the state,

828
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:05,000
Speaker 1: and it's final clothes today. It's power cut twenty two,

829
00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:09,279
Speaker 1: and of everything I have heard in the courtroom from

830
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:16,520
Speaker 1: the beginning matters, closing was by far the best, hands down.

831
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:19,680
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut twenty two. You know

832
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:22,440
Speaker 1: it's something else. I don't understand. Your wife and your

833
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:26,520
Speaker 1: son had just been killed, and you're worried about having

834
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:28,879
Speaker 1: a lawyer run. I said, well, you know, just let

835
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:31,120
Speaker 1: as I need to have a lawyer round for really,

836
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:35,440
Speaker 1: my wife and son had just been butchered, and I'm

837
00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:39,080
Speaker 1: worried about having a lawyer. From the alibis that he's created,

838
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:41,120
Speaker 1: that he's doing it. He says, I'm went and round,

839
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:42,880
Speaker 1: you might have. I'm a knees over here, went and

840
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:46,640
Speaker 1: brand and I tried to take the pulse of Paul.

841
00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:56,000
Speaker 1: I'll still be on the ground over myself, and I've

842
00:53:56,120 --> 00:54:01,640
Speaker 1: tried to turn him over, trying to check his real

843
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:06,799
Speaker 1: I went to Maggie Jack trip bolts and you can't

844
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:10,880
Speaker 1: do that in twenty seconds. Wow, you know what to you,

845
00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:15,880
Speaker 1: Chris McDonough. That says it all the way he laid

846
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:21,920
Speaker 1: that out about if he found his son lying there dead,

847
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:27,360
Speaker 1: what he would do. Yeah, Nancy, I mean it's you know,

848
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:32,879
Speaker 1: I come from living at it, you know, with authenticity.

849
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:35,600
Speaker 1: As you know, I lost my son who was twenty

850
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:39,560
Speaker 1: years old. And I can't tell you what it felt

851
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:42,719
Speaker 1: like that day, but I can tell you this. I

852
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:45,320
Speaker 1: didn't call a lawyer, nor what I ever call a

853
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:49,040
Speaker 1: lawyer at that moment. And he not only called one,

854
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:53,280
Speaker 1: he called his firm. He had a firm of lawyers

855
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:56,120
Speaker 1: show up that night at the death of his family.

856
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:00,759
Speaker 1: I think he nailed it in the cloth. I gotta

857
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:02,600
Speaker 1: tell you something, Chris, I thought I knew it all

858
00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:05,320
Speaker 1: about grief and mourning when my fiance they was murdered

859
00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:08,200
Speaker 1: shortly before our wedding. But now that I have John,

860
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:12,799
Speaker 1: David and Lucy, I agree with you. I don't think

861
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:17,320
Speaker 1: I could even think about calling a lawyer after seeing

862
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:24,440
Speaker 1: my child lying there dead straight back out to you,

863
00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:29,520
Speaker 1: killy skin. I think at that moment the courtroom just

864
00:55:29,719 --> 00:55:34,680
Speaker 1: came to a stop when Matters made that argument. I agree.

865
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:36,920
Speaker 1: And I think also the fact that up until this

866
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:40,200
Speaker 1: point we have heard how gruesome these injuries are. So

867
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:43,640
Speaker 1: Alec Murdoch saw his own son's brain on the ground

868
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:46,239
Speaker 1: and then decided to still check for a pulse. I

869
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:49,080
Speaker 1: think a lot of this stuff is just not adding

870
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:55,520
Speaker 1: up and more ironic seeing his son like that and

871
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:59,839
Speaker 1: then thinking, wow, I better call a lawyer. I don't

872
00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:04,800
Speaker 1: scrutiny on me, so I'll just lie about it. So

873
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:08,200
Speaker 1: much has happened, and this the lawyers behind me. Go ahead,

874
00:56:09,239 --> 00:56:12,120
Speaker 1: go ahead, called the lawyers. I gotta tell you. One

875
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:14,880
Speaker 1: of the things that absolutely has amazed me about this

876
00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:18,560
Speaker 1: whole this whole process, that no one has really talked

877
00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:21,239
Speaker 1: about relative to Alex. We've heard about how powerful this

878
00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:24,640
Speaker 1: family is. I want to know why on the day

879
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:28,560
Speaker 1: after he wasn't standing out on those court steps, and

880
00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:32,440
Speaker 1: there would have been an endless bank of microphones in

881
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:35,080
Speaker 1: front of him, with cameras, people that he had summoned

882
00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:37,600
Speaker 1: with all of this power that this family is supposed

883
00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:40,920
Speaker 1: to have. That he would have been slabbing and crying

884
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:45,560
Speaker 1: and wailing, begging for people to come forward, help me

885
00:56:45,719 --> 00:56:49,680
Speaker 1: solve this double homicide where my family has been butchered. Remember,

886
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:53,080
Speaker 1: he witnessed this the night before. That's not what happened.

887
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:57,640
Speaker 1: I never saw that. I never saw anybody screaming at

888
00:56:57,680 --> 00:56:59,680
Speaker 1: the top of their lungs, getting up on the rooftops

889
00:56:59,719 --> 00:57:02,920
Speaker 1: and shouting out where in the world is this killer?

890
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:05,880
Speaker 1: They're running around the countryside out here. We've never had

891
00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:09,080
Speaker 1: anything like this happened. Where's the horror? Where's the terror?

892
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:11,360
Speaker 1: You know? Where is it? Because I can tell you

893
00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:14,520
Speaker 1: my family, I'd want blood. I would want them, I

894
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:17,200
Speaker 1: would want that person. I would want to drag them

895
00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:19,960
Speaker 1: through the streets in the city. I would want to

896
00:57:20,040 --> 00:57:23,120
Speaker 1: know that my community was safe and that I was

897
00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:25,720
Speaker 1: going to have justice for my wife and my son.

898
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:28,480
Speaker 1: That never happened. Guides, the judge is about to charge

899
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:31,200
Speaker 1: this jury with the law by which they are to

900
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:33,520
Speaker 1: judge the facts of the case. This will be the

901
00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 1: judge reading the black and white letter of the law,

902
00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:42,680
Speaker 1: and then this jury finally begins jury deliberations. Thank you

903
00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:44,520
Speaker 1: for being with us. We're head to straight back into

904
00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:47,400
Speaker 1: the courtroom for the jury charges. Goodbye friend,