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Speaker 1: Hello the Internet, and welcome to this episode of The

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Speaker 1: Weekly Zeitgeist. These are some of our favorite segments from

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Speaker 1: this week, all edited together into one NonStop infotainment laugh stravaganza.

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Speaker 1: Uh yeah, So, without further ado, here is the Weekly Zeitgeist.

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Speaker 1: We are thrilled to be joined in our third seat

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Speaker 1: by an award winning journalist who's worked for places like

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Speaker 1: The Washington Post, The La Times, the Financial Times of London.

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Speaker 1: It's also the author of the books The Jakarta Method,

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Speaker 1: Washington's Anti Communist Crusade, and The Mass Murder Program That

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Speaker 1: Shaped Our World, and more recently If We Burn, The

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Speaker 1: Mass Protest Decade, and The Missing Revolution. Please welcome to

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Speaker 1: the show.

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Speaker 2: Vincent Bebe, Hello, Hello, thank you for having me, Thanks

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Speaker 2: for doing that. Yeah, it is tomorrow, really national ambrosiaday.

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Speaker 2: Is that a real thing that you Yeah, it's legit.

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Speaker 3: There's a there's an entire website that just has every

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Speaker 3: day there's something nonsensical or of deep consequence like yes,

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Speaker 3: the same time deeply yeah exactly, runs.

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Speaker 1: The gamut from sensical to deeply nonsense, deeply nonsensey yeah,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, Like mainly it's consumer groups. Corporate groups are

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Speaker 1: lobbyists just naming something a day to yeah, give themselves

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Speaker 1: a reason to collect a paycheck exactly, exactly, the bullshit

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Speaker 1: economy thrives. We like to cover the bullshit economy as

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Speaker 1: much as possible. And you're coming to us from London. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm in London now.

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Speaker 2: We've heard Los Angeles by the end of the year

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Speaker 2: for you know, home for the holidays. But I'm currently

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Speaker 2: in the United Kingdom.

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Speaker 1: Is that where you? Is that your home base at

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Speaker 1: the moment?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it has been. I mean I've been on the

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Speaker 2: road like actually for years for the second book, between

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Speaker 2: South Paulo and London often, but I'm like at the

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Speaker 2: end of this book to our I've yeah, resettled into

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Speaker 2: London for a bit.

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Speaker 1: Cool cool love. You've been at some of the protests

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Speaker 1: in London for you know, Palestinian rights and survival and

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Speaker 1: depending depending where you get your news, I heard it

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Speaker 1: was a pro homans.

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Speaker 2: Right, yeah, I kind of yeah, Yeah, I've been. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I've been at the protest weekly here like not far

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Speaker 2: from from from where I am now. Yeah, absolutely, and like,

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Speaker 2: uh absolutely that presentation they tried it here, certainly, I

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Speaker 2: mean the government here is quite committed to demonizing anyone

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Speaker 2: like to the left of I don't know, uh Joe

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Speaker 2: Biden even or even to the left of britsuye snak.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, there was there was quite a big narrative

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Speaker 2: that was either antie like mostly anti Semitic, or quite

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Speaker 2: about supporting Hamas. And then when I went there, you know,

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Speaker 2: even though I should have known better, I even kind

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Speaker 2: of expected to see some elements maybe there are out there,

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Speaker 2: but what I found was like quite a lot of

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Speaker 2: families and kids, and quite like.

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Speaker 1: If they're out there, they'll find them here. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: No, That's the thing that's kind of the I to

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Speaker 2: what I've been working on is that, yeah, you can

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Speaker 2: if a protest is large enough, you can usually find

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Speaker 2: an element in the crowd. You can usually find a

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Speaker 2: fact to support your narrative if you look hard enough.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And sometimes the narrative will be you know, anti Semitism,

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Speaker 1: and sometimes it'll be they just like really fuck with America.

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Speaker 1: They just want to like be America, just like whatever

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Speaker 1: honors their preconceived notions coming.

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Speaker 2: In this This rises to the top quite almost all

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Speaker 2: the time. Usually when you sign a Cadre of US

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Speaker 2: based or correspondence for the US media to cover some

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Speaker 2: uprising in some part of the world. Someone will see

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Speaker 2: a desire to become junior, like the League America, which

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Speaker 2: often like shocked and horrified some of the actual people

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Speaker 2: that I met that put together protest movements in the

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Speaker 2: last fifteen years, But it almost always happens.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what is something from your search history that is

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Speaker 1: revealing about who you are?

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Speaker 4: The only thing I can think of is that I

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Speaker 4: went out to eat with one of my friends the

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Speaker 4: other day and I had to search what is what

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Speaker 4: is the sushi that's a taco but not really a

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Speaker 4: taco and it's tamaki because it's like the open face

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Speaker 4: like sushi, but I didn't.

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Speaker 1: Know what it was. Oh okay, okay, so you're talking

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Speaker 1: about just the little bed of rice with the sushi

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Speaker 1: on top of it. But it's like wrapped in the seaweed.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, like, oh okay, like a hand roll.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I'm like a foodie, but like I don't

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Speaker 4: always have the right names for stuff, So I'm like, okay, well,

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Speaker 4: what is the sushi kind of taco hybrids?

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Speaker 1: It looks like an ice cream cone filled with fish

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Speaker 1: kind of right, it does, and it was good.

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Speaker 4: I mean, we went to the place and it was amazing.

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Speaker 3: There's a there's like a place in la that's just

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Speaker 3: all hand rolls that I know, Like I don't know,

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Speaker 3: I'm sure they have that kind of yeah, and like

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Speaker 3: they have it by the I forget the name and way,

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Speaker 3: but yeah, Timucky is like my one of my favorites.

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Speaker 3: Usually you eat it at the end, like when you

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Speaker 3: have like a sushi meal, because like the mentality is

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Speaker 3: you like it's it's meant to be the closing sushi

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Speaker 3: that you eat to make sure like oh oh so

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Speaker 3: you think you're full now, well then try this one

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Speaker 3: and now go home.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, get down.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's why I like the philosophy behind it. It's

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Speaker 3: like no hit hit yourself with the big one at

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Speaker 3: that is.

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Speaker 1: There a study of food that like passes through you

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Speaker 1: at like different speed, the speed at which you go

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Speaker 1: from full to not full anymore? Because sushi, I can

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Speaker 1: eat myself to like stuffed to the like very bottom

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Speaker 1: of my esophagus, like I can feel the sushi down

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Speaker 1: there and then like be hungry an hour and a

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Speaker 1: half later, Whereas like Thanksgiving dinner or something like that,

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Speaker 1: I'm done, like I'm cooked, like yeah, it's just stuff.

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Speaker 1: I don't I don't know what it is. Korean food

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Speaker 1: also goes right through me. I feel like, I feel

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Speaker 1: like it's a lot of the foods from Asian countries

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Speaker 1: that are like that. You're able to eat a ton.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's probably able to eat a ton and

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Speaker 1: then be hungry at like the next the next time

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Speaker 1: a meal rolls around.

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Speaker 3: You look, we like to eat, man, we like to Yeah,

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Speaker 3: so we're not gonna get slowed down. And I think

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Speaker 3: I don't know. I mean, I know the same way.

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Speaker 3: I think a lot of it, like when eating sushi.

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Speaker 3: There's also the part of it you're like, how much

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Speaker 3: fucking money is this costing? So like you can't I mean,

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Speaker 3: unless you want to really go there, like you could

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Speaker 3: you I'm I'm sure you could eat that amount.

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Speaker 1: But I'm sure there's also like a psychological effect of.

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Speaker 3: Like, Okay, do I get another fifteen dollars thing and

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Speaker 3: see if that will do it, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 3: versus like what fifteen bucks gets me a Chipotle or something.

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Speaker 1: I think there's that part of it too. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if anyone's eating to their full potential.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I mean starches make you feel full, right, yeah,

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Speaker 4: and they fiber stuff. I think, no, But I feel

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Speaker 4: like it's like things that are super fatty or whatever,

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Speaker 4: like they make you want more because like if I

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Speaker 4: eat bacon, I never want to stop.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 1: It's like if I eat.

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Speaker 4: Like pork belly or something, I never want to stop.

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Speaker 1: I want to keep going.

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Speaker 3: Oh so you like the like the luxurious kind of juicy,

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Speaker 3: fatty parts of I Look when you said bacon and

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Speaker 3: pork belly, it's the same part, but we're doing it

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Speaker 3: different ways. And I'm like, I love.

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Speaker 1: I say the number one food for like what I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about is pancakes, because pancakes you eat them and

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Speaker 1: then get less and less hungry after you've eaten them

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Speaker 1: as they expand in your stomach, you know, oh right,

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Speaker 1: Like I get more and more full, like even after

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Speaker 1: I've eaten them. Right, So, like there is a science

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Speaker 1: that I'm sure like chefs and culinary artists pay attention

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Speaker 1: to the like, Okay, this is how it's going to

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Speaker 1: feel going down. But also like once you've eaten it,

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Speaker 1: because you do have like taste buds in your stomach.

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Speaker 1: You know, That's that's a part of there's definitely stuff

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Speaker 1: that when you eat it or drink it, it's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I liked it when I was having it in my mouth,

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Speaker 1: but then like there's just something about it that fucks

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Speaker 1: me up once it's in my stomach. You know what

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Speaker 1: is something you think is overrated? Blair?

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Speaker 6: Oh, thank you for asking, Jack Boy? Do I have

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Speaker 6: an idea for you? Okay? Overrated? I don't want a

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Speaker 6: small salad bowl. Okay, I need a big daddy salad bowl.

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Speaker 6: I need room to work without shrapnel going everywhere. I

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Speaker 6: throw elbows like we're on our test.

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Speaker 1: I need a dexter room to eat that well. I

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Speaker 1: need it.

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Speaker 6: Salad am I gigantic bull. I'm digging in a well.

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Speaker 6: I'm finding creature down there without any fear of lettuce

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Speaker 6: flying out. Okay, I'm working, I'm swirling. Can't do that

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Speaker 6: with a small salad bowl.

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Speaker 1: How big are we talking?

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Speaker 5: Like?

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Speaker 1: What's a small salad bowl? Are you going to be

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Speaker 1: able to get some torso in there? Like some of

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Speaker 1: your torso? Elbow above elbow?

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Speaker 6: Show these small salbows, you know, the ones that the

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Speaker 6: standard size, the standard side, these little tiny bulls. I said,

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Speaker 6: this is not correct for a solad. Oh a plate.

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Speaker 6: Do not even get me started on salad on a

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Speaker 6: plate in a restaurant that you pay to go to.

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Speaker 6: These people are sick.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe if you get me a cubicle with like

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Speaker 1: dividers around it. Otherwise it is going to be there

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Speaker 1: will be projectiles and people are going to have to

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Speaker 1: like take cover as liabilities.

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Speaker 6: I don't want to do that.

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Speaker 1: Is your like salad eating style just sucking Tasmanian devil?

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Speaker 1: Is that to do?

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Speaker 2: Just a blur of fle.

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Speaker 6: Do you think that? You think that, but it's not steady.

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Speaker 6: I'm polite. I just don't want to be sort of

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Speaker 6: feeling castrated in that situation. Okay, I'm trying to have

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Speaker 6: it be a really acting spall like experience. I'm not

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Speaker 6: trying to do too much. I'm just being appropriate. I'm

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Speaker 6: just saying there's a flaw in the system of what

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Speaker 6: we're doing right now and what we have been doing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I like whenever I eat a salad, like, are

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Speaker 3: you a trader Joe's bag salad?

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Speaker 1: I eat that in a gigantic mixing bowl.

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Speaker 6: Yeah exactly. That's peace, that's peace, that's.

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Speaker 1: Well being because you got to toss it to yourself.

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Speaker 1: You can't do that. Shit, the tight I can't get

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Speaker 1: j with when I'm doing that.

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Speaker 6: Oh yeah, how am I supposed to spread the salad

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Speaker 6: dressing in a tiny bowl when there's no room to

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Speaker 6: even there's not even any air in there?

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Speaker 1: Thank you? And do you toss? Do you put like

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Speaker 1: the salad dressing on and then put something over the

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Speaker 1: top and like shake it up? Or you you mixing it?

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Speaker 1: How are you doing that?

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Speaker 6: I'm even more delicate than that, I'm lighter than that.

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Speaker 6: I'm just do a quick swirl with the I'm not

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Speaker 6: trying to do anything. Crazy people are gas lighting with these.

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Speaker 1: I do dressing in the bowl first.

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Speaker 6: Then that's smart, Miles. That's like a pinter as bitch.

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Speaker 1: That's just how they do that.

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Speaker 3: That's out every time I watch like like behind the

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Speaker 3: scenes ship in like a restaurant, they'll like dress the

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Speaker 3: bowl and then put the leaves in and then they

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Speaker 3: really yeah yeah, damn man, that.

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Speaker 1: Just fucking blew my mind. That's great, great.

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Speaker 3: Advice, because then all you do is like if you

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Speaker 3: just keep scooping from the bottom like all the dressings

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Speaker 3: there and.

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Speaker 1: It kind of mixes really well. So yeah, anyway, Blair's right,

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Speaker 1: it does sound like some pinterest ass like I actually

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Speaker 1: make my nachos on my tabletop, just directly on the table.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, but slop sloppy style, Yeah, slappy style.

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Speaker 1: What is something you think is underrated?

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Speaker 5: Okay, you guys gotta bear with me on this one.

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Speaker 5: Underrated Taylor Swift? Hear me out here?

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Speaker 1: Go on? Now, what is it about Taylor Swift I've

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Speaker 1: been wondering.

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Speaker 5: Okay, yes, she is so overexposed. We're hearing news about

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Speaker 5: her every single day. She's a billion dollar business. She

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Speaker 5: has like a million products. She's always selling something. But

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Speaker 5: the way I still see like half of people be

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Speaker 5: like I don't like her. Oh no, she's like I

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Speaker 5: don't like her music, Get her off my TV screen.

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Speaker 5: The thing that I love is we now have like

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Speaker 5: another like a princess Diana Michael Jackson. We have a

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Speaker 5: single person to focus our whole culture on, which is

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Speaker 5: so unifying and fun. And I think I don't want

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Speaker 5: people to like her. I don't care if they like her.

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Speaker 5: I want them to accept that it is her world.

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Speaker 1: She is verse.

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Speaker 5: Yes, when the aliens come down, Why would I send

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Speaker 5: Joe Biden a.

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Speaker 1: Taylor swift.

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Speaker 3: You know what, if the alien are smart, they might

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Speaker 3: just pull up straight to Taylor Swifts like place in Manhattan.

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Speaker 1: Oh she's I remember early on we were like, is

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Speaker 1: she like she just like has she looks alien adjace?

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Speaker 1: Can you run a full marathon while singing songs? I know? Oka?

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Speaker 1: Or is that some kind of alien technology? I feel

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Speaker 1: like she would be If I had to guess who

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Speaker 1: has access to the alien technology a'llah Independence Day, it

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Speaker 1: would probably be her, right, Like, that's who first of

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Speaker 1: all they would want to give it to, because they're like,

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Speaker 1: You're like, I think, what do they call the really

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Speaker 1: tall slender like pale aliens? The grays? The grays are

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Speaker 1: the short little ones eyes, the Nordic aliens. I feel

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Speaker 1: like they might be like yeah, or they might be

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Speaker 1: like you're one of You're not one of them? Okay,

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Speaker 1: like you're just really really she's the freaker, the out No, no,

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Speaker 1: you're one of us. Let's go, let's go. We've talked

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Speaker 1: about this before quite a bit on the show. As

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Speaker 1: a show that tries to take a look at the

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Speaker 1: national share consciousness and the zeitgeist, Taylor's swift may have

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Speaker 1: come up a time or two. And the question that

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Speaker 1: I feel like we come up against is is she,

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Speaker 1: like so time person of the Year has never been

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Speaker 1: a entertainer. Really, it's been a Bono made it for

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Speaker 1: his humanitarian work with and I am making the jerk

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Speaker 1: off him gesture as I say that. But she's the

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Speaker 1: first one who's just like this year. Yes, exactly so.

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Speaker 1: Is this One of the theories that we like to

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Speaker 1: talk about is that as humans in the in this

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Speaker 1: modern world have lost access to religion, like our Beyonces

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Speaker 1: and Taylor's swift have come in to like replace those

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Speaker 1: foundational spiritual myths. Do we think that she is like

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Speaker 1: it's on par with Michael Jackson and Princess Diana or

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Speaker 1: is she even like a loves that at this point?

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Speaker 3: Mmm, she's not quite there. I still contend she's not

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Speaker 3: quite there.

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Speaker 7: She had a not quite no no, no, no no,

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Speaker 7: like you're gonna have you're gonna you're gonna need to

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Speaker 7: pull up to like Sub Saharan Africa, show the picture

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Speaker 7: and they all got to be like.

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Speaker 1: Trouble, Like if they're not doing that, then it's.

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Speaker 3: Not quite You're not hidding globally, but because like everywhere else,

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Speaker 3: you know, like in Europe, fucking North America and South America.

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Speaker 3: Even it's definitely, I mean, she could be on her

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Speaker 3: way for sure. I think at this moment it's it's

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Speaker 3: not quite there. But I think more interestingly, we were

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Speaker 3: talking about an episode I hate to show our hand

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Speaker 3: for a future episodes coming up, you know, we were

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Speaker 3: actually asking is she the anti Christ?

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Speaker 1: Mm hmmmm mmm.

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Speaker 3: And like and not in like a ah get away,

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Speaker 3: but the you know, the influence that she has and

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Speaker 3: the fear that she strikes in the hearts of conservatives

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Speaker 3: and religious figures, something like that, she might be something there.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, and people love people are always looking for

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Speaker 5: labels for themselves so that they can feel like they

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Speaker 5: have a spot. That's what religion does. That's what being

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Speaker 5: as swifty is.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, she could.

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Speaker 5: She could use those sweets. I mean, not that I'm

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Speaker 5: not as swifty. She could kill all of us if

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Speaker 5: she wanted. She could just be like swifties attack.

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Speaker 3: Honestly, I have a feeling she could manage to do

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Speaker 3: like irl damage in physical space more than like Trump

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Speaker 3: could with maybe maga people if you really wanted to

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Speaker 3: start turning the dial up, you know, so it's you know,

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Speaker 3: with just.

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Speaker 1: World War Z level waves of humans just running, Like

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Speaker 1: I feel I could scale like a wall, you know,

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Speaker 1: but they're all like seventeen year old girls. But which

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Speaker 1: I mean, don't never underestimate a seventeen year old girl. No, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I like this argument. I think I think it is counterintuitive.

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Speaker 1: But I do think that people people are sleeping on

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Speaker 1: tailors swift.

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Speaker 5: I just want people to stop resisting.

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Speaker 1: Stop resistance, you go, thank you. Yeah, just fucking become

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Speaker 1: one with the borg that is Taylor. Yeah, you'll be happier.

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Speaker 1: Do we just see this continuing? Like on some level,

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Speaker 1: I've heard people like she can't get much bigger, and

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Speaker 1: America loves to see someone torn down right. On the

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Speaker 1: other I think saying it can't get she can't get

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Speaker 1: any bigger is a little like saying like, well, it's

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Speaker 1: not like it can get any worse. Politically, It's like,

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Speaker 1: well you just lack the imagination. Yeah, hold all these beers, please, yes,

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Speaker 1: watch this happen. So like, I do think she could

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Speaker 1: get any bigger, but I think as she gets bigger

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Speaker 1: from here, we do start to enter unprecedented territory.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a weird spot where we don't this is

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Speaker 5: the first time we don't have a break from someone ever,

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Speaker 5: because she's been re recording those albums and just putting

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Speaker 5: them out in the middle. So she's been in the

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Speaker 5: news every day for over a year now, and usually

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Speaker 5: with you know, Olivia Rodrigo just put out her new

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Speaker 5: album and that was huge too, but we didn't hear

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Speaker 5: from her for a couple of months before that we

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Speaker 5: got a better either. So I have no idea what

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Speaker 5: it's gonna look like. You know, I isn't gonna explode

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Speaker 5: and everyone's gonna hate her all up.

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Speaker 3: Do you think like that sort of like American misogynistic

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Speaker 3: pattern is gonna come for her or like, because like

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Speaker 3: you say, Jack, every anytime anyone gets big, it's there

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Speaker 3: is a teardown phase, like with entertainers no matter what.

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Speaker 3: And I'm curious because I know, like even in reading interviews,

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Speaker 3: how she said she was much more affected by things

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Speaker 3: that people said when she was younger, but she's older

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Speaker 3: and now like it doesn't nearly affect her. So maybe

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Speaker 3: she's like, I've reached my final form. You can fucking try, motherfuckers.

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Speaker 3: But I like the madam Anti Cruxes.

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Speaker 1: Yep, yep, yeah, I feel like I think Oprah like

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Speaker 1: left the planet a long time ago, but it is

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Speaker 1: still very consistent Lee Oprah, you know, like there's nothing

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Speaker 1: that changed it. I feel like I could see Taylor

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Speaker 1: Swift just evolving in that direction of like no longer

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Speaker 1: on this planet, because I think the thing that often happens.

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Speaker 1: First of all, people want to see a giant, giant

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Speaker 1: celebrity taken down just because for the same reason they

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Speaker 1: watch like buildings being detonated. But I I think that

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Speaker 1: also just it is such a strange like level of

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Speaker 1: fame and like psychological experiment that it's hard to maintain

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Speaker 1: one's like coherent gravitational equilibrium of reality at that level.

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Speaker 1: And then so it you know, if the whole world

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Speaker 1: is rooting for you to fail spectacularly kind of even

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Speaker 1: if they don't admit that. And also you are in

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Speaker 1: a bizarre psychological experiment where like nobody has told you

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Speaker 1: the truth in twenty years. You know, like everybody around

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Speaker 1: you is just like WHOA, yeah, you're killing killing that

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Speaker 1: it's almost an impossibility that you maintain anything resembling normalcy.

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Speaker 1: But the kind of how you get weird can go

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Speaker 1: in a direction that just keeps making you more and

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Speaker 1: more famous, right.

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Speaker 5: And she's so weird by the way, Taylor, I saw

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Speaker 5: the concert. The way she like pauses for applause after

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Speaker 5: every three words is so funny, and I love how

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Speaker 5: crazy she is.

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Speaker 1: And but like, also, yeah, that's a good example of

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Speaker 1: she is. Every single gesture and micro gesture and micro

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Speaker 1: expression is perfect. Like that's how she's gotten weird. That's

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Speaker 1: how she's become inhuman, dialing it in tighter and tighter

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Speaker 1: into exactly what people want from her, right, Yeah, So.

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Speaker 5: I feel like that's got to be the point at

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Speaker 5: which fame actually is purely worse than it is good,

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Speaker 5: when nobody's being honest with you anymore.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah, that's gotta be it. The thing that

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Speaker 1: like you really don't want to see is when they

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Speaker 1: like build their own universe that has its own name,

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Speaker 1: like Graceland and Neverland and right right, right, I think

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Speaker 1: like Eddie Murphy had that for a little while, and.

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Speaker 3: It's and then he came out Jamaican came that reggae

401
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,000
Speaker 3: album and they were like, what the fuck it?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Prince had it, and Prince maintained his prince

403
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Speaker 1: ness up till up until the end.

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Speaker 3: But he got weird too. You know, you gotta get weird.

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Speaker 3: I think that's the thing. It's like, we gotta get.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but he was weird. He was known for being weird.

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Speaker 1: That was kind of his whole thing, and he just

408
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Speaker 1: like kind of honed it and honed it more and more.

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Speaker 1: She is famous for being like very broad and miss Americana,

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Speaker 1: but she is seems able to hone that more and

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Speaker 1: more and more somehow.

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Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, yeah, we seem to find out that she

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Speaker 3: has like a like a secret Dunkin Donuts in her

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Speaker 3: garage or some weird shit like that, like bring.

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Speaker 1: On the Dunket Donuts more. I feel like, I know,

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Speaker 1: right crazy, that's I'm saying.

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Speaker 2: I don't.

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Speaker 3: That's why I need to see the weird tailor phase, Like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: weird Tailor, take everybody with you please to the weird Land.

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Speaker 1: I just like want to see what her media diet,

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Speaker 1: like what her just like intake is like, like is

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Speaker 1: she reading Barbara Streisand's memoir or is she reading books

423
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:29,440
Speaker 1: about Napoleon right now? You know, like what is what?

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Speaker 1: What does she think is next for her? It's like

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00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:35,680
Speaker 1: I'm reading a lot of bell hooks. Actually, yeah, it

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Speaker 1: would be done day. All right, let's take a quick

427
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Speaker 1: break and we'll be right back. And we're back, and

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Speaker 1: you know, one of the kind of central questions that

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Speaker 1: I went into the book with and that I just

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Speaker 1: think is interesting and you kind of open up talking

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Speaker 1: about is just the way that like a you know,

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Speaker 1: we're interested inherently in these like the idea that there

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Speaker 1: is zechgeister a collective consciousness. And you know, you open

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Speaker 1: your book, which is about like one of these things

435
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:23,520
Speaker 1: where for a decade there were these movements that seemed

436
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:28,240
Speaker 1: to resemble each other in some ways, kind of often superficial,

437
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 1: but spreading around the globe. You also open your book

438
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 1: talking about the spirit of nineteen sixty eight, the idea

439
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:39,280
Speaker 1: where like revolution is happening across the globe all at once,

440
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 1: almost like there's something in the air, right, And this

441
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:46,239
Speaker 1: is you know, sixty years before social media, and you know,

442
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,040
Speaker 1: these protests and uprising sweep around the world and even

443
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:52,439
Speaker 1: in communist countries. So I'd just be interested in first

444
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 1: just for framing of the entire conversation, like hearing you

445
00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:01,720
Speaker 1: speak about what what are the dynamics that are at

446
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:04,439
Speaker 1: play there? Like how do you think something like that happens.

447
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, So whether or not we really truly understand,

448
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 2: I think we can come up with theories. But historically,

449
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 2: revolutions uprisings are common waves. They cluster around certain years,

450
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 2: and you know, the best way we have to explain

451
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 2: this is people hear about things happening us where they think,

452
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,879
Speaker 2: maybe I can do this here, even if their conditions

453
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 2: are different, even if the things they're protesting against are different.

454
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 2: And I think media has to be part of this story,

455
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 2: right because before media would be impossible for people to

456
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:36,760
Speaker 2: find in Germany to find out what's happening in France,

457
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 2: and you know, unless somebody came and told them that's

458
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 2: the story. So even like in eighteen forty eight, like

459
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 2: you know, the Spring of Nations in Europe.

460
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 1: You saw like common.

461
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,160
Speaker 2: Commonalities across countries, and I think you see in a

462
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 2: acceleration of that process the more media ties we become.

463
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 2: So nineteen sixty eight you have quite a lot of

464
00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:01,160
Speaker 2: back and forth happening between Western Europe in the United States,

465
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:05,359
Speaker 2: especially California, but also like they're doing different things. Like

466
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 2: if you just if you just like look at the

467
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 2: pictures of it, it may look the same, but there's

468
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 2: different things happening, and certainly the people in Prague, or

469
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 2: in China or in Egypt, which in my book I

470
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:18,359
Speaker 2: kind of say that they all do kind of have

471
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:19,880
Speaker 2: their own type of nineteen sixty eight.

472
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:22,400
Speaker 1: They're all very different types.

473
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 2: Of movements in protesting, very different types of governments. But

474
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 2: like this seems to be a thing at least in

475
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:33,159
Speaker 2: the histories, in the history of revolution. Most serious thinkers

476
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 2: do think that there is some kind of like a

477
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,640
Speaker 2: zeitgeist of rebellion in the air, that there are waves

478
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 2: of rebellions, there are clusters of uprisings. I think media

479
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 2: has to be part of that story about like again,

480
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,639
Speaker 2: we have to that's something we as an explanation, we

481
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 2: pose on retroactively to make sense of what's happened after

482
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:49,879
Speaker 2: it all explodes.

483
00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, there's also the phenomenon of like parallel invention,

484
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 1: where you know, the light bulb is invented in multiple

485
00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 1: places around the world, like within you know, month of

486
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 1: each other, like at least you know, years of each other,

487
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:04,919
Speaker 1: and so like we're all kind of working from the

488
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 1: same book and coming up with the same ideas. So yeah,

489
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 1: I'm just just interested. It's not really the central thesis

490
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 1: of your book. But just as somebody who's spent a

491
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 1: lot of time thinking about that, I was curious to

492
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:18,439
Speaker 1: hear your thoughts on that.

493
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:22,719
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean, I guess Zeitgeist is kind of

494
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 2: a Gelian idea, right, And like in this book and

495
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,159
Speaker 2: in like this the understanding of what's supposed to be

496
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,640
Speaker 2: happening in protests, there is kind of some like deep

497
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 2: Hegelian assumptions that there is kind of like a world

498
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 2: historical spirit like this, like history with the capital H.

499
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,640
Speaker 1: Moves forward right in some grandi mystical way.

500
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 2: And so whether or not that's true or not, I

501
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 2: think we can you know, probably most people are not Galiens,

502
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:47,959
Speaker 2: but some people, but you know, I think a lot

503
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 2: of people do kind of have this deep, deep down

504
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:52,439
Speaker 2: feeling or assumption that there is kind of like a

505
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:56,120
Speaker 2: history with a capital H that moves forward and this Yeah,

506
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 2: this this ends up actually coming up in the book

507
00:26:58,400 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 2: for better or worse.

508
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 1: Yeah.

509
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:00,200
Speaker 5: Yeah.

510
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 1: Another thing you talk about is just this sense among

511
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 1: revolutionaries of and this is something that I've just noticed

512
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 1: across you know, reading about history of like the joy

513
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 1: that people feel, and reading about protests like the fading

514
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:21,919
Speaker 1: out of these capitalist roles, and you know, you mentioned

515
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:25,880
Speaker 1: the idea of a medieval carnival where they would kind

516
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:30,440
Speaker 1: of topple hierarchies for a set period of time. In

517
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:34,399
Speaker 1: the book Dawn of Everything, David Graeber talks about, like,

518
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 1: you know, doing archaeological studies of these tribal Native American

519
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,919
Speaker 1: civilizations that have like that was actually built into the

520
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 1: structure of how they operated, where there would be these

521
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 1: holidays where people would change and you know, the chiefs

522
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 1: or the police, the people who acted as the police

523
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 1: would become clowns, and you know, just all of these

524
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:02,120
Speaker 1: like switching of the role the people had, so and

525
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 1: it it was kind of built in that if somebody

526
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 1: had a really great hunting season, they would then be

527
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 1: kind of ritualistically humiliated in front of everybody so that

528
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:17,200
Speaker 1: they were not attached to their kind of hierarchical role.

529
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:20,640
Speaker 1: But yeah, I don't know, it's just interesting, like giving

530
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 1: people an environment where they can forget their capitalist lives

531
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 1: and dissolve into a collective seems to more and more

532
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,920
Speaker 1: like connect with people, and I feel like is kind

533
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 1: of an important part of the equation and part of

534
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 1: what makes me hopeful about you know the fact that

535
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 1: there could be some people driven change is how much

536
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 1: there is just that that urge there. But obviously you know,

537
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 1: this is something you think about and put in the book,

538
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 1: so just curious to hear your thoughts. Is that part

539
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 1: of the thing that makes you come away from this

540
00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 1: and still be hopeful even though the of the protesters

541
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 1: often get swarted repeatedly in these stories.

542
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's part of it. I mean, I guess the

543
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 2: main thing that makes me hopeful is that I came

544
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 2: away from this book that I did. You know, through

545
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 2: two hundred two hunred and fifteen interviews in twelve countries,

546
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 2: and almost everyone, even if they had been, you know,

547
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 2: apparently defeated in the short term, had experienced some kind

548
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 2: of a crushing defeat. Almost no one had given up

549
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 2: on the idea of getting together with other human beings

550
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 2: and tried to build a better world. They had thought

551
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 2: about new strategies, they had thought about doing things differently.

552
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 2: They maybe had to leave their home country or gone

553
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 2: to jail, but they had not given up. And a

554
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 2: lot of people have said even if they knew, even

555
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 2: after they knew how things ultimately turned out, even if

556
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 2: they now know that the story ended in disaster. They

557
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 2: would say things like I could relive that day every

558
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 2: day for the rest of my life. It's the most

559
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 2: alive that I've ever felt, and that feeling is something

560
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 2: that I will never stop reliving.

561
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 1: And I think.

562
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 2: That that feeling is related to not only what you

563
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 2: said about this historical practice of inverting hierarchies and sort

564
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 2: of creating more direct links between people that you see

565
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 2: in all kinds of any civilization, of any complexity. I

566
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 2: think you see these things, kinds of things popping up,

567
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 2: the medieval carnival, the case you just online have.

568
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 1: I've read a lot of Graver books. Graver's books been

569
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 1: not that one.

570
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:28,959
Speaker 2: But I think it's also related to that other phenomenon

571
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 2: we spoke about earlier, like the feeling right now, which

572
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 2: I think drives the elections of people like Schwartzenegger and

573
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 2: Trump and Bolsono in Malay, that we're not actually in

574
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 2: control of what's happening. The structures that you're supposed to

575
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 2: represent us are not actually representing us. There are a

576
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 2: few moments in your daily life when you really feel

577
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 2: that you're making history, that you're part of something, like

578
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 2: guys that you're actually working connecting with other people and

579
00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 2: actually imposing your will in the most part positive sense,

580
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 2: like trying to reshape reality in a way that actually

581
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 2: matters at all. And so when those feelings come around

582
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 2: for people in this day and age, at this level

583
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 2: of like social complexity and in a world of interconnected

584
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 2: political systems which I think it is right to believe

585
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 2: don't really represent us that well anymore, it feels so

586
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 2: incredibly powerful. It feels like this is something that I've

587
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 2: been starving for because the like right now, what I'm

588
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 2: actually doing feels like it's really changing things. And that

589
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 2: is a feeling that I think that even if we

590
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 2: didn't have to improve the global system, which I think

591
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 2: we do, it's like there's a deep there's a deep

592
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 2: yearning for that in humanity to connect with other people

593
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 2: and build something, connect with other people and do something

594
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 2: really like to make a difference, and there's not We

595
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 2: don't feel that way very often. Often where you know,

596
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 2: much a movie.

597
00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 1: There's like a meaningless that has like been encoded and

598
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 1: everything that is pretty frustrating. And I think people assume

599
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 1: might be like something that we just like take for

600
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 1: granted as like part of day to day life. But

601
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 1: it really when you read you know, historical accounts and

602
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 1: like interviews with people who are parts of things like

603
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 1: this in your book, and it's really like there is

604
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 1: something that makes you feel alive, which suggest to me

605
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 1: maybe that's how we're supposed to feel, is like in

606
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 1: our lives, you.

607
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 2: Know, yeah, I mean, yeah, you don't feel a lot

608
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 2: you know, yeah, you feel something when you you know,

609
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 2: like scroll in social media all day and like get

610
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 2: mad at a post and then do a post and

611
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 2: people get mad at you.

612
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 1: You feel something. You don't exactly feel alive, right.

613
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not that omnipotence that like being in the

614
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 3: streets or being the collective can kind of bring you

615
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 3: when you're just kind of yeah, when it's the digital

616
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 3: response version, you're getting to feel something, and I'm like,

617
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 3: I'm curious, like in that, you know, like that feeling

618
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 3: that allow people to come together and be like, yeah,

619
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 3: you know what, I'm also not pleased. I'm angry about

620
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 3: this thing. You know in your book, you know, for

621
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 3: people who aren't fully aware, you're examining a lot of

622
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 3: these mass movements that you know, most of the time

623
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 3: didn't actually end up bringing about the change that the

624
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 3: people were seeking, and the fact that the movements get

625
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 3: co opted and you know, can turn into, as you say,

626
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 3: like almost bringing the opposite effect of what they wanted initially.

627
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 3: Is there something do you think there is something woven

628
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 3: in that like that the like obviously there are very

629
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 3: politically minded activists and people who are organizing and understand

630
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 3: like maybe mechanically what has to happen, But because so

631
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 3: many are just sort of taken up by this larger

632
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 3: feeling that we kind of get stuck in the loop

633
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 3: of doing the explosive like this is our feedback to

634
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 3: the leaders of the world kind of thing, and then

635
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 3: forgetting what happens after that.

636
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 1: I think that, yes, partially, I think that.

637
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 2: So the phenomenon that I choose to build this history

638
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 2: round is is mass protests that gets so big that

639
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 2: they either overthrow governments or fundamentally destabilized governments. So these

640
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 2: are movements that at first unexpectedly appear to be incredibly successful,

641
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 2: Like so enough people came on the streets that actually

642
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 2: the president or the dictator is like fleeing the country

643
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:25,360
Speaker 2: or is so scared and so desperate to stay in

644
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 2: power that they want to that they'll give something up

645
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:29,759
Speaker 2: to the people in the streets in order to stay

646
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 2: in power. Now, what happens next ends up being the

647
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:33,839
Speaker 2: focus of my book. Is what I try to do

648
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:35,439
Speaker 2: is I go back and say, well, what actually happened

649
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 2: in the years that followed, after a lot of the

650
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 2: foreign journalists have stopped, you know, reproducing the very inspiring

651
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 2: images on screens around the planet, what really happened? And

652
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:49,800
Speaker 2: to answer that question as to what actually happened? I

653
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 2: think is related to your question someone indirectly, but related

654
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 2: is that the way that we are living starved of

655
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 2: this feeling, starved of this actual connection with other you know,

656
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 2: we are like digitally quote unquote connected because we're you know,

657
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 2: we're we're sending you know, messages on screens. But we're

658
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,840
Speaker 2: living more individualized lives than I think most of humanity

659
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:14,319
Speaker 2: ever has.

660
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 1: We are often responding to like posts.

661
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 2: This, This way that we have been living for several

662
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:26,319
Speaker 2: decades shaped the type of the types of responses which

663
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:30,360
Speaker 2: were easiest to put together to real injustice. They've shaped

664
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:34,719
Speaker 2: the types of things that we did first when confronted

665
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 2: with real abuses of power. And I think that is yes,

666
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 2: part of the story and a lot of a lot

667
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 2: of the people said this at the end, like you know,

668
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 2: we at the end of the book, you know, after

669
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:47,760
Speaker 2: I've interviewed everyone asked them to look back in what happened,

670
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 2: and a lot of them said, yes, it was not

671
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 2: only this system that we thought that it had had

672
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 2: been oppressing us, but that shaped the way that we

673
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 2: understood political change.

674
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 1: It shaped the way that we could put.

675
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 2: Together responses to injustice, and that ended up meaning that

676
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 2: we couldn't get through that first of apparent victory to

677
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 2: the next step, which was actually creating something better.

678
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 1: So yeah, I do. I do think it's all related.

679
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,280
Speaker 2: I think that we we and then you know, that's

680
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 2: part of the learning process, right, That's part of the

681
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 2: what happened in the twenty tens is a lot of

682
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 2: people got much further than they expected and then.

683
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:25,799
Speaker 1: Realized where the barriers were.

684
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:28,920
Speaker 2: But I think that the fact that we have been

685
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 2: living this way for so long is part of the

686
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 2: reason that explains why it was the mass protest that

687
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 2: came together very very quickly. That was the way that

688
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 2: often was the automatic response, Like why the twenty tens

689
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 2: the dominant mode of the twenty tens rather than other

690
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:51,240
Speaker 2: of these you know, years of uprising was mass protest

691
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:53,280
Speaker 2: or the mass why it was a mass protest decade

692
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 2: if you want to use the subtop of my book.

693
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 1: You know, I think one of the things that you

694
00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,720
Speaker 1: end up pointing to is that a lot of these

695
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 1: protests were coming at the right time, right, there was

696
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:10,800
Speaker 1: this energy and this desire, but they were specifically horizontally

697
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 1: organized or organized to resist leadership. And is that kind

698
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 1: of the big takeaway that you just you think that

699
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:25,919
Speaker 1: future protests protest movements need to kind of take away

700
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 1: from this book, Is that some manner of organization, some

701
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:34,800
Speaker 1: manner of like, you know, if you aren't prepared after

702
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:40,320
Speaker 1: you create the change to step in to lead, somebody

703
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 1: else is going to lead for you. Is that would

704
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 1: that be kind of the big you know, because that

705
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:50,879
Speaker 1: there is the example of this actually working, right, and

706
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:55,920
Speaker 1: the big thing there was that the leftists who created

707
00:37:56,360 --> 00:38:01,759
Speaker 1: the change then involve themselves in national politics, right right,

708
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 1: So like would you say that is the big takeaway

709
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 1: that they just need to be ready to organize and

710
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:12,799
Speaker 1: then lead that dynamic? I think that you just outlined is.

711
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 2: Goes a big goes a long way towards explaining a

712
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 2: lot of what happened in many of the cases in

713
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,400
Speaker 2: the book, there's like ten to thirteen depending on how

714
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 2: you count them. But that dynamic if you you know,

715
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 2: if the book is indeed built around the question, how

716
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:29,880
Speaker 2: is it possible that so many mass protests led to

717
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:33,320
Speaker 2: the opposite of what they asked for? You've outlined I think, yeah,

718
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:35,440
Speaker 2: A major part of the answer, which is that what

719
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 2: happened unexpectedly is that more people came out in the

720
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 2: streets than was planned for. They joined a very specific

721
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 2: type of response to injustice, a very specific type of

722
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 2: mass protests, which is you know, which has various elements.

723
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 2: It is apparently spontaneous, leaderless, digitally coordinated. Often you know,

724
00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 2: people are finding out about this because of social media

725
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:02,879
Speaker 2: or media and general and then horizontally structured, which means

726
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:05,360
Speaker 2: that there's not hierarchy, and there's often an idea that

727
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:08,360
Speaker 2: there shouldn't be. And then these are protests in public

728
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 2: squares or in or in public spaces, and when more

729
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:18,759
Speaker 2: people come than expect, than are than are expected, then yeah,

730
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 2: the government is perhaps dislodged or the government is so

731
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 2: weakened the power is up for grabs. And often what

732
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:26,840
Speaker 2: happened and you know that this is where you know,

733
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:30,360
Speaker 2: cases really diverge. But often what happened is whoever was

734
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 2: already there organized waiting in the wings, steps in and

735
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,239
Speaker 2: takes power. The person that was like waiting, you know,

736
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 2: off off off camera, off stage, takes over, or you know,

737
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 2: sometimes that is local national elites. They're not always on

738
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 2: the right.

739
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:47,280
Speaker 1: Sometimes they are on the right.

740
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 2: Or especially in the cases of countries that are weaker

741
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 2: than the US, you often had some neighbor or the

742
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:57,279
Speaker 2: US itself coming in to to fill that vacuum and

743
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 2: crush the movement, and then that kind of counter attack coms,

744
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 2: just like it did in seventeen eighty nine or in

745
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 2: the revolutions in previous eras of global revolution, there's usually

746
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 2: a counter attack of counter revolution. That protest that had

747
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:17,239
Speaker 2: it planned on going to war with anybody that had

748
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 2: not planned on even actually overthrowing a government is really

749
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 2: was really not really ready for it was really not

750
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 2: ready to defend this project, which really concretely consisted of

751
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:33,440
Speaker 2: millions of different people with different ideas as to what

752
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 2: it was. Because they came together so quickly, and you

753
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 2: know that part of it, I think is a strength

754
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:39,720
Speaker 2: in the beginning is you can get so many people

755
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:42,360
Speaker 2: together very quickly because the sort of everyone's invited. But

756
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 2: once you get past that first moment, often there was

757
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 2: a brief moment when there was an opportunity, and usually

758
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 2: the people that took the opportunity were already organized, already ready,

759
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 2: and already waiting in the wings to seize power, where

760
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 2: whereas the stream movements couldn't decide if they believed in

761
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:01,239
Speaker 2: taking power, was supposed to do it, or if what

762
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 2: they were doing with it, if they would and while

763
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 2: that sort of non conversation was not happening, like the

764
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 2: military sweeps in or a right wing popular sweeps in,

765
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:12,320
Speaker 2: or NATO bombs of your country and so on.

766
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,440
Speaker 3: When it comes to like kind of like looking like

767
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:18,359
Speaker 3: because you know, looking at the book and just kind

768
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:21,920
Speaker 3: of thinking about everything I'm always thinking of, like you know,

769
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 3: like how this like relates to the United States too,

770
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 3: and how we've we dabble a lot. I mean, yeah,

771
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 3: we've seen a lot of mass protests. I mean, like

772
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:32,279
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty felt like a huge moment with Black

773
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 3: Lives Matter and people beginning to sort of be able

774
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:37,239
Speaker 3: to articulate like sort of what is wrong with our

775
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:40,880
Speaker 3: system of policing only to just get like Nancy Pelosi

776
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,400
Speaker 3: kneeling in the kintake cloth at the Capitol, right, and

777
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 3: then like like what.

778
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:47,440
Speaker 1: About qualified immunity. There's like a lot of things we

779
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 1: could do.

780
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 3: And so I look at things like you know, like

781
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:55,760
Speaker 3: United Auto Workers or Organized Labor right now, and they've

782
00:41:56,120 --> 00:42:00,440
Speaker 3: been able to wield some really inspiring like collective power

783
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 3: and we're able to extract tangible concessions. But I feel

784
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 3: like that a lot of that is because these groups

785
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 3: are organized around proper power and in a specific industry,

786
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:12,799
Speaker 3: and their tool is to withhold their labor, which then

787
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,719
Speaker 3: affects revenue, which then affects the leadership, and then that's

788
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:18,840
Speaker 3: how they bring them to the table when you know,

789
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:20,839
Speaker 3: how do we take sort of like you know, what's

790
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:23,440
Speaker 3: from your perspective, what are the learnings?

791
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:23,520
Speaker 5: Like?

792
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:25,839
Speaker 3: That's a very obviously potent tool that it's like it's

793
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 3: very specific, and I think that's probably the benefit of

794
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,920
Speaker 3: those kinds of movements is because they're all they're very

795
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:34,919
Speaker 3: focused on like some very specific things. But when we're

796
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:38,440
Speaker 3: talking about sort of like the discontent that people are

797
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:41,359
Speaker 3: experiencing in the United States based on inequality, et cetera.

798
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 3: How do we take that going merely past the point

799
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:48,719
Speaker 3: of these sort of huge gestures, you know, these expressions

800
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 3: of anger and translate that into outcomes, because a lot

801
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 3: of the times, like you're saying, these movements, they're not there,

802
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:58,359
Speaker 3: are horizontally organized, or they get so big, like people

803
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 3: like at the picket for police were travels, some guys

804
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:02,840
Speaker 3: got to sign. He's talking about like batteries give you cancer,

805
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 3: And you're like, well, what the fuck is what?

806
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 1: Like what are we doing now?

807
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 3: Like, so what do we do when it sort of

808
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 3: falls outside of that realm of something as specific as

809
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 3: like the workplace or outcomes as of workers.

810
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's a good that's a good way to

811
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 2: pose the question because those two two's two phenomena I

812
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:23,719
Speaker 2: think are interrelated in different and important ways. On the

813
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 2: one hand, one of the things that people said in Egypt,

814
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 2: for Brazil, or or or or Libya or around the

815
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:36,439
Speaker 2: world at the end of the book is I wish

816
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:39,920
Speaker 2: we would have been more organized before the explosion came.

817
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:43,480
Speaker 2: I would I wish we would have organized when it

818
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:46,880
Speaker 2: seemed like nothing was happening, Like the lesson, the lesson

819
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:50,920
Speaker 2: of being essentially built in the off season because you

820
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:53,880
Speaker 2: don't know what's gonna come, and when something, an opportunity does,

821
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:55,799
Speaker 2: does arise, you want to already happy word you know,

822
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 2: connected with other people that believe in the same things

823
00:43:57,640 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 2: as you. And this is kind of the story of

824
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 2: the UL right. Like in twenty seventeen, you do have

825
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 2: people that are from the kind of the world of

826
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 2: progressive politics realizing, oh, we kids try to reform. There's

827
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:15,479
Speaker 2: the UAW reform concuss. This is a process that starts

828
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:17,879
Speaker 2: in twenty seventeen when it seems like, you know, there's

829
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:20,720
Speaker 2: no opportunities for organized labor right now, you know, Donald

830
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:23,799
Speaker 2: Trump's just won the presidency. What you know, you know,

831
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:26,799
Speaker 2: But but it ends up paying off much much later.

832
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:31,280
Speaker 2: And it pays off because as you say, you withdraw,

833
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:34,880
Speaker 2: you withhold your labor. And not only do you withhold

834
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:36,760
Speaker 2: your labor, because this is a this is the really

835
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:42,239
Speaker 2: hard move that is almost impossible for the horizontally structured

836
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:45,759
Speaker 2: mass protest to pull off, is that you withhold your

837
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 2: labor asking for a raise. You may ask for all

838
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:51,879
Speaker 2: kinds of things that you think you're not going to get.

839
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 2: You ask for them, but you know that there is

840
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 2: a amount of money that you can get that will

841
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 2: lead you to go back to work. And the boss

842
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 2: also knows that. The boss believes the boss will make

843
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:12,719
Speaker 2: an offer, and then the union says, oh, yes, if

844
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 2: we get this amount of concessions from you, we will

845
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:19,799
Speaker 2: go back to work. And that's why the boss gives

846
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 2: it because there's this exit ramp right like everyone can

847
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:24,480
Speaker 2: you know, even if you could, even if you use

848
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:27,800
Speaker 2: the strike to raise consciousness about working class part in

849
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 2: the United States, even if you make all kinds of

850
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:32,240
Speaker 2: some demands that you're not going to get this time,

851
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:35,439
Speaker 2: the only reason for the boss to give the raise

852
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:39,319
Speaker 2: is the credible promise that the labor is restored the

853
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 2: next day. And this is something that this was the

854
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 2: very strange, like it really confounded everyone that was living

855
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 2: through it, Like as it was happening, the politicians and

856
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 2: the original organizers for example of this unexpected mass explosion

857
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:56,480
Speaker 2: in Brazil in twenty thirteen, didn't know how to deal

858
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 2: with this phenomenon because the president wanted to give the

859
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:03,440
Speaker 2: street something but could not figure out what it was

860
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:06,279
Speaker 2: that would that could be given and then that the

861
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 2: streets could say, oh, yes, that's great. We'll take that

862
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:11,239
Speaker 2: for now, you know. And again in these movements you

863
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:14,799
Speaker 2: may ask for really really radical reforms. You may you know,

864
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 2: bring up the possibility of entirely changing or getting rid

865
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 2: of the current policing orcarceral system. That's that is a

866
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:28,840
Speaker 2: thing that can be part of this larger process. But

867
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 2: when there's no when there was no ability for the

868
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:37,439
Speaker 2: people in power to understand that they would somehow get

869
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:39,719
Speaker 2: out of this like because they're often, like I said,

870
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 2: they're scared. So if you're not willing to actually overthrow

871
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:44,160
Speaker 2: the government and form a new one, but you can

872
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:47,239
Speaker 2: scare the government, then what you want is to use

873
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:49,120
Speaker 2: that moment where they're kind of on their back on

874
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:51,759
Speaker 2: their heels to get something. But they're only going to

875
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:53,279
Speaker 2: get it if they think that, okay, well that that

876
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:55,359
Speaker 2: means that I can stand again that if I do

877
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:58,279
Speaker 2: give this thing, I will be it will be demonstrated

878
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 2: that you know, mass protest extracts goods from me.

879
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:05,240
Speaker 1: It will be it would be proven.

880
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 2: You know, on the other side of this equation there

881
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:10,439
Speaker 2: might be all this more this radical energy that's that's born.

882
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:12,439
Speaker 2: But at least I can hold on for now, and

883
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:13,799
Speaker 2: and a lot of times in the twenty tents, the

884
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:16,640
Speaker 2: government couldn't even figure out what to give in order

885
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:19,359
Speaker 2: to full order, so then they just they end up

886
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:23,239
Speaker 2: opted opting for And this depended on context repression just

887
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:27,839
Speaker 2: like crack like just cracking down or just waiting it out,

888
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:31,439
Speaker 2: which turns out kind of works. And and that that

889
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:34,000
Speaker 2: that that that that dynamic that you brought up too,

890
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 2: like because I you know, in twenty twenty, I mean

891
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 2: I didn't write I know very little about the George

892
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:39,839
Speaker 2: flot uprising, and I spent a lot of time learning

893
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:41,800
Speaker 2: about the rest of these in the book, but I

894
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:45,959
Speaker 2: did get like I did watch of course, and and

895
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 2: this was something that I started to talk about with

896
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:51,360
Speaker 2: my friends that were in you know, involved on the streets,

897
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 2: that if the government just kind of does nothing, the

898
00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:59,319
Speaker 2: longer things go on, the more likely it is that

899
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:01,680
Speaker 2: that guy with sign that says batteries give you cancer,

900
00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 2: we'll get on television. Right even if and again to

901
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:08,160
Speaker 2: go back to the very beginning of a conversation, even

902
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:12,319
Speaker 2: if like that's an fbhiaja, you know, if like it

903
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:14,320
Speaker 2: makes sense for the government to just send three people

904
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 2: out there to do the dumbest thing that you can

905
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:17,279
Speaker 2: imagine point a camera at.

906
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:18,480
Speaker 1: Them and be like, this is what you are? Is

907
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 1: that what you are?

908
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 2: And in the case of these horizontally structured uprisings, the

909
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:26,000
Speaker 2: uprising cannot say no, we're not, no, it's not, which

910
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:29,800
Speaker 2: is something that the Black Panther Party and CORE and SNCAC,

911
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 2: the civil rights groups in the fifties in sixties then

912
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:34,839
Speaker 2: inspired so much of contemporary process as we know it.

913
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:37,880
Speaker 2: So much of the sixties movements in the student new

914
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:41,080
Speaker 2: Left were really inspired by the civil rights organizations in

915
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 2: the fifties and sixties. They absolutely would have had an

916
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 2: ability to say that guy, we don't know that guy, right,

917
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:50,040
Speaker 2: but that was lost in the you know, it's it's

918
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:53,759
Speaker 2: a mixed bag. There's positive negatives to the to the

919
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:56,480
Speaker 2: dynamic which allows people like a lot of people to

920
00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 2: come to the streets at the same time, whereas often

921
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:02,040
Speaker 2: it took like two years to together the mass demonstrations

922
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:03,719
Speaker 2: that were common in the fifties and sixties because they

923
00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 2: had to like slowly slowy, one by one recruit people

924
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:09,279
Speaker 2: invent them, whereas now we can everyone can show up,

925
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:12,240
Speaker 2: but then there's no one to say yeah, really anything

926
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 2: full on behalf of the streets right.

927
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, like when Boogoloo boys showed up at like BLM

928
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 3: things and they're like, wait what, well, hold on y'all.

929
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:21,759
Speaker 3: They're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we like this too,

930
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:24,759
Speaker 3: and it's like, okay, no, this is not it, not

931
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:25,600
Speaker 3: over here.

932
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:28,759
Speaker 1: But yeah, let's take a quick break and then yeah,

933
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:30,719
Speaker 1: I want to keep talking about this. We'll be right back.

934
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:44,440
Speaker 1: And we're back. We're back, And BuzzFeed has dropped what

935
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:47,640
Speaker 1: I hope will be a tradition going forward, a tradition

936
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:52,919
Speaker 1: unlike any other. That is twenty twenty three's most out

937
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 1: of touch celebrity moments. And I had missed some of

938
00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:02,479
Speaker 1: these because I don't pay that close attention to what

939
00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:06,360
Speaker 1: Bryce Dallas Howard and Kim Kardashian are doing on social media.

940
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:10,840
Speaker 1: Oh Jack, you're missing a whole world nonsense, a whole

941
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:11,760
Speaker 1: new word.

942
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:15,960
Speaker 3: Roolery was what was bryced own? I remember she was

943
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:19,920
Speaker 3: getting like the NEPO baby thing. Yeah, I think what

944
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 3: was going on.

945
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:24,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, So in May she did an Instagram post that

946
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:27,920
Speaker 1: was about the challenges of breaking into the film industry

947
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:35,320
Speaker 1: and your dad Ron Hid Yeah, one of the most

948
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 1: successful directors working and has like a massive production company

949
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 1: and your first roles were oh, let me see here.

950
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:49,280
Speaker 1: In Ron Howard films like How the Grinch Stole Christmas.

951
00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 1: By the way, she does have the perfect nose. I

952
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:53,560
Speaker 1: feel like the noses of the Who's in that movie

953
00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:54,799
Speaker 1: were modeled off of her.

954
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:56,839
Speaker 6: I would die to be a who.

955
00:50:57,680 --> 00:50:59,919
Speaker 1: Oh you kind of have like a great hoop?

956
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:03,680
Speaker 8: Yeah, kill it as a who?

957
00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:07,160
Speaker 1: Are you like?

958
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:09,680
Speaker 3: The who that they're all like, Like, Blair's kind of

959
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:16,520
Speaker 3: like a little different than us, right, I.

960
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:18,560
Speaker 6: Got a lot of love and holidays cheer in my

961
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:20,920
Speaker 6: heart to spread around. I think I fit right in.

962
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:22,640
Speaker 6: I think they would be like, you're the who that

963
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:24,120
Speaker 6: we never knew we miss, you know?

964
00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:28,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, all right, all right, petition to have Blair

965
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:29,520
Speaker 3: transported to Whoville.

966
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:31,919
Speaker 1: There we go. Also, she was in A Beautiful Mind,

967
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:36,480
Speaker 1: which I didn't even realize. I need to watch that.

968
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:39,520
Speaker 1: You got to rewatch a Beautiful Mind to see Bryce

969
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:42,480
Speaker 1: dllice how that shit hits different when you realize Bryce

970
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 1: Dallas Howard's in it and.

971
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:47,719
Speaker 6: See her out of touch celebrity moments.

972
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 1: That was just example of teeth acting. Someone was like, oh, yeah,

973
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:55,759
Speaker 1: you remember Russell Crow's teeth in a Beautiful Mind? Oh, no, no,

974
00:51:55,920 --> 00:52:02,200
Speaker 1: he's tooth. He's tooth acting. I don't know. Yeah, all right.

975
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:07,000
Speaker 1: We also got Kim Kardashian promoting a wildly expensive, totally

976
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:12,440
Speaker 1: unnecessary according to medical science MRI scan for some reason.

977
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 9: Yeah.

978
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:14,480
Speaker 6: Oh I saw that one.

979
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:18,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, pre nuvo scan. Yeah, And in August Instagram post,

980
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:22,800
Speaker 1: Kim Kardashian promoted a two thousand, four hundred and ninety

981
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:26,040
Speaker 1: nine dollars so kind of a deal a medical scan,

982
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:29,759
Speaker 1: which sorry, did I say scammer scan? It doesn't matter

983
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:33,520
Speaker 1: medical yeah, way, actually both are correct, which isn't covered

984
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:39,759
Speaker 1: by insurance because it's, according to medicine, completely unnecessary. It's

985
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 1: her in a picture next to an MRI machine. I

986
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:46,400
Speaker 1: believe she is wearing figs like the form fitting medical

987
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:47,600
Speaker 1: scrubs and.

988
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:51,160
Speaker 3: She wait, that's a thing they got, like they got

989
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:52,960
Speaker 3: like sexy medical scrubs.

990
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:55,919
Speaker 1: I mean they're not like they're just sexy, but they're

991
00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 1: you've seen you've seen medical scrubs. They are like cut

992
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:05,439
Speaker 1: to fit box yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah exactly, they're

993
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:09,960
Speaker 1: like built for Minecraft characters. And yeah, figs were just

994
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:14,680
Speaker 1: like what if we like recognized that humans worthies? Oh okay,

995
00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:17,920
Speaker 1: all right, yeah yeah, but Anyways, Kim said, I recently

996
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:22,160
Speaker 1: did this at pre Nuvo scan and had to tell

997
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:25,760
Speaker 1: you all about this life saving machine. It has really

998
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:28,840
Speaker 1: saved some of my friends lives, and I just wanted

999
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:30,439
Speaker 1: to share hashtag not an ad.

1000
00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:35,680
Speaker 3: That's that's that's how that's that's a potent endorsement, I guess.

1001
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:38,239
Speaker 3: But like to your point, I like that the American

1002
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:42,480
Speaker 3: College of Preventative Medicine and the American Cause of Radiology

1003
00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:45,480
Speaker 3: they're both like, this is nons it's not necessary, it's

1004
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:47,960
Speaker 3: not this isn't something you need.

1005
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:50,920
Speaker 1: But hey, it saved some of her friends' lives, but

1006
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:53,279
Speaker 1: it is. If you talk to doctors like a thing,

1007
00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:56,440
Speaker 1: everybody's like, I think I'm gonna need an MRI on

1008
00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:58,239
Speaker 1: this one to confirm what's going on.

1009
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:02,839
Speaker 6: Say that, though, because like I saw that, and I mean,

1010
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:07,080
Speaker 6: I'm very easily influenced. So one of my flaws, I

1011
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:07,920
Speaker 6: was like, I need that.

1012
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:08,560
Speaker 1: I need that.

1013
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:13,720
Speaker 6: My head hurts. I didn't breathe that deeply for a second.

1014
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:18,600
Speaker 1: I need that. Kim Kardashian that Kim Kardashian m R.

1015
00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:26,600
Speaker 1: In the David Wayne movie The Ten, where these two

1016
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:32,879
Speaker 1: neighbors get competitive about collecting cat scam machines try there's

1017
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:36,000
Speaker 1: like an arms race between two neighbors collecting cat scam machines.

1018
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:40,399
Speaker 1: And I feel like that is we're not far from that,

1019
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:42,080
Speaker 1: Like people are gonna be like I got I got

1020
00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:45,080
Speaker 1: my own damn MRI machine at home.

1021
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:48,120
Speaker 6: And I just love the way that this country just

1022
00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:55,200
Speaker 6: makes money off of deep medical issues in humanity.

1023
00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:56,200
Speaker 1: Right and neurotic people.

1024
00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:59,880
Speaker 6: It's soulful. Yeah, I'll include I'll throw myself it's a

1025
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:03,880
Speaker 6: it's a soulful nation, and I'll throw myself in the neurotic.

1026
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:07,640
Speaker 3: I would love like if it was somehow a scam

1027
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:09,480
Speaker 3: and it's just a bit like it was just somehow

1028
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:12,640
Speaker 3: like tracking like your brain activity to.

1029
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:15,480
Speaker 1: Be like okay, we've we've downloaded another person with the

1030
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:20,799
Speaker 1: pre new it's a girl, she's working there it is.

1031
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:24,920
Speaker 1: There's also a trend of rich celebrities pretending to be

1032
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:27,920
Speaker 1: working class. There was a moment in the Beckham documentary

1033
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:31,759
Speaker 1: where Victoria Beckham to come from a working class background

1034
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:36,239
Speaker 1: and like David Beckham was like what she was.

1035
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:38,279
Speaker 3: Like my father would bring me to school and pick

1036
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:40,840
Speaker 3: me up, and David Beckham's like, in what kind of car?

1037
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:45,319
Speaker 1: It's not really relevant. It's not in what kind of car?

1038
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:48,480
Speaker 1: What kind of what kind of car? Was it a Rolls?

1039
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:56,359
Speaker 1: She's like a Rolls Royce and it's like and then no,

1040
00:55:56,640 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 1: he like looks at He's like, is this your queen Rolls?

1041
00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:01,839
Speaker 5: Right?

1042
00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:06,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, because Beckham definitely had a different upbringing than Victoria Beckham.

1043
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:08,920
Speaker 1: But I love how he couldn't stand for the cosplay,

1044
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:12,839
Speaker 1: Like he's like, I thought that that that. I mean,

1045
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:16,240
Speaker 1: her name was Posh Spice, like that was her whole

1046
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:18,279
Speaker 1: You can't go back on that.

1047
00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:22,319
Speaker 3: It wasn't like trade Spice, you know, because she's a

1048
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:23,799
Speaker 3: trade or something like that.

1049
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:28,520
Speaker 1: Right, then there were celebrities actually costplaying as people with

1050
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:34,040
Speaker 1: real jobs. Charlie d'milio worked at a Walmart cash worked

1051
00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:38,640
Speaker 1: as a Walmart cashier for I think like one belts

1052
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:42,520
Speaker 1: worth of food and a video to promote her new

1053
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:47,960
Speaker 1: snack brand. But she was like just so found it

1054
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:50,279
Speaker 1: so amusing to be like and then what do you

1055
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:53,040
Speaker 1: do you do? Like this? Oh it's okay here, I

1056
00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:59,480
Speaker 1: am underscanning the growth. Oh my gosh, your jobs. Yeah,

1057
00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:02,120
Speaker 1: and she and worked at a Starbucks. I had missed that,

1058
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:03,440
Speaker 1: but that's like.

1059
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:05,919
Speaker 6: Going in the trenches though, we gotta give him that one.

1060
00:57:06,080 --> 00:57:09,239
Speaker 6: I mean that job. Whenever I go to Starbucks, I

1061
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:12,719
Speaker 6: go these men and women are the greatest people I

1062
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:16,200
Speaker 6: have ever met. The things they go through, what people

1063
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:19,640
Speaker 6: tell them. I'm like, I would blow my brains out.

1064
00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:22,840
Speaker 6: I mean, these people yapping in their ear about fucking

1065
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:24,440
Speaker 6: almond milk and ship.

1066
00:57:25,240 --> 00:57:28,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, oat milk, oat milk. Come on, now, you know

1067
00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:32,840
Speaker 1: how we get down in la Oh you're sick. You

1068
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:34,000
Speaker 1: moved on to oat milk.

1069
00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:36,960
Speaker 6: You know you watched it, you heard the oat milk?

1070
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:39,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, no milk. I'm just dropping.

1071
00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:42,800
Speaker 3: I'm dropping little references here and the special for people

1072
00:57:42,840 --> 00:57:45,640
Speaker 3: to get get involved in a fan I.

1073
00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:50,400
Speaker 6: Know I am not. I am not a fan, absolutely not.

1074
00:57:51,640 --> 00:57:53,760
Speaker 1: It feels like it has a little more viscosity. It's

1075
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:56,800
Speaker 1: a little more like it's the back of the fake milks.

1076
00:57:56,840 --> 00:57:59,040
Speaker 1: I'll say, Wow, we're doing too much.

1077
00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 6: How do we even get to oh oats are our

1078
00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:05,840
Speaker 6: oats are not milkable? That we've gotten way too We've

1079
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:07,160
Speaker 6: strayed too fall do.

1080
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:10,520
Speaker 1: You sound like that like American dairy lobby right now?

1081
00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:23,360
Speaker 1: They did help pay for the hour, but.

1082
00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:20,800
Speaker 6: The taste is that warrant.

1083
00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:25,920
Speaker 1: We need to be honest, I truly love milk so much,

1084
00:58:26,280 --> 00:58:28,640
Speaker 1: like like cow's milk. Yeah, I really do. And the

1085
00:58:28,640 --> 00:58:31,520
Speaker 1: fact that they have lactose free milk now is like,

1086
00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:34,680
Speaker 1: why are we doing anything else? I need that toast, bro,

1087
00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:37,440
Speaker 1: I need that toast. Oh the toast fucks me up.

1088
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:41,560
Speaker 1: And we we have a lot of non lactose digesting

1089
00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:44,920
Speaker 1: individuals in my household. But it makes sense, it really,

1090
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:47,720
Speaker 1: Like I don't I don't notice the difference between lactose free,

1091
00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:50,880
Speaker 1: Like does anybody make the claim that they're like, no,

1092
00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:53,440
Speaker 1: this tastes like shit without the lactose. Actually, I've never

1093
00:58:53,440 --> 00:58:55,280
Speaker 1: even tried, like like lac takes.

1094
00:58:56,680 --> 00:58:57,080
Speaker 6: It either.

1095
00:58:57,360 --> 00:58:59,560
Speaker 1: Well. Yeah, it used to be just a product made

1096
00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:01,720
Speaker 1: by lack Tad, which are the people who make the

1097
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:05,240
Speaker 1: chalky little chewa bowls that you eat before you have lactose,

1098
00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:08,280
Speaker 1: And so that was kind of gross, like that got

1099
00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:11,200
Speaker 1: lactose free milk off on a bad foot. But now

1100
00:59:11,320 --> 00:59:16,480
Speaker 1: like all the regular milk companies now have lactose free

1101
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:18,919
Speaker 1: milk and it's exactly the same.

1102
00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:19,680
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1103
00:59:19,880 --> 00:59:22,720
Speaker 6: See, I have learned so much in this short time together.

1104
00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:26,240
Speaker 6: It is crazy. I've always seen lactaid, but it sounds

1105
00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:28,040
Speaker 6: so pharmaceutical.

1106
00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:31,120
Speaker 1: Keeps Yeah, exactly, it got us off on the wrong foot.

1107
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:34,560
Speaker 1: But try try lactose free milk if you don't.

1108
00:59:34,840 --> 00:59:40,800
Speaker 8: Like yeah, And also if you did, you're built for it.

1109
00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:44,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, David Letterman made a video in which you pretended

1110
00:59:44,120 --> 00:59:47,160
Speaker 1: to work at a grocery store. Will forgive him for that?

1111
00:59:47,640 --> 00:59:51,240
Speaker 1: I cannot. Prince William served veggie burgers out of a

1112
00:59:51,240 --> 00:59:56,320
Speaker 1: food truck and looked but wildly uncomfortable. But this was

1113
00:59:56,400 --> 00:59:59,720
Speaker 1: I think his attempt to be like, I'm the people's prince,

1114
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:02,440
Speaker 1: not Harry. Look at me.

1115
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:06,760
Speaker 3: He's like he's like using like fucking hand sanitizer every

1116
01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:09,240
Speaker 3: time he hands something off to a regular person. Oh

1117
01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:10,919
Speaker 3: my god, Okay, what's the next one?

1118
01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:15,720
Speaker 1: All right? Anyways, shout out to BuzzFeed because I talking

1119
01:00:15,720 --> 01:00:17,760
Speaker 1: a lot of shit about how bad the internet is

1120
01:00:18,280 --> 01:00:24,800
Speaker 1: these days, and that it is bad. Everything is written

1121
01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:27,200
Speaker 1: by AI. Now it turns out it looks like but

1122
01:00:27,560 --> 01:00:31,040
Speaker 1: BuzzFeed still doing their thing out there. Yep. Hashtag not

1123
01:00:31,080 --> 01:00:33,160
Speaker 1: a ned, hashtag not an ad.

1124
01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:36,960
Speaker 3: Hashtag, renewvos can save my life hashtag, hashtag, hashtag marketting,

1125
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:38,120
Speaker 3: hashtag just kidding.

1126
01:00:38,120 --> 01:00:41,760
Speaker 1: Hashtag beautiful on the inside and the outside hashtag all right,

1127
01:00:41,880 --> 01:00:47,200
Speaker 1: hashtag This Christmas gift will change your life by getting

1128
01:00:47,240 --> 01:00:51,880
Speaker 1: you to finally shut the fuck up exactly put your

1129
01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:55,280
Speaker 1: ass on mute. I'm all heres, bitch, Okay.

1130
01:00:55,640 --> 01:00:58,880
Speaker 3: So we like we talk about all the time on

1131
01:00:58,920 --> 01:01:01,680
Speaker 3: the show, like how we're like we're always as every

1132
01:01:01,800 --> 01:01:05,120
Speaker 3: day getting closer to like a Wally type world. And

1133
01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:07,760
Speaker 3: I'm curious what you guys think of this thing if

1134
01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:12,080
Speaker 3: is dystopian or useful. So there's this picture if you

1135
01:01:12,120 --> 01:01:14,520
Speaker 3: could all look in the dock that is not a

1136
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:17,920
Speaker 3: virtual oral sex simulator, that's actually a device called a

1137
01:01:18,080 --> 01:01:21,720
Speaker 3: mute talk and if and you're like thinking, like what

1138
01:01:21,760 --> 01:01:23,720
Speaker 3: the fuck is this? Guys, We're in a VR headset

1139
01:01:23,720 --> 01:01:25,920
Speaker 3: with like a box strap to his mouth and you're like, so,

1140
01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:29,840
Speaker 3: if it isn't a kunnelingis simulator, then what is it? Well,

1141
01:01:30,080 --> 01:01:33,400
Speaker 3: it's a Bluetooth device that serves as a microphone.

1142
01:01:33,840 --> 01:01:36,919
Speaker 1: But here's the thing. It also slightly muffles the sound

1143
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:40,320
Speaker 1: of your voice, so people nearby can only kind of

1144
01:01:40,360 --> 01:01:43,760
Speaker 1: hear what you're talking about. U does it like suck

1145
01:01:43,840 --> 01:01:47,520
Speaker 1: the words out of your mouth, like like like someone

1146
01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:51,360
Speaker 1: speaking from beyond the veil in a horror movie? Like

1147
01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:53,360
Speaker 1: it sounds like it's being spoken backwards.

1148
01:01:53,760 --> 01:01:56,200
Speaker 3: No, it's yeah, okay, look, if you're really into the

1149
01:01:56,240 --> 01:02:00,000
Speaker 3: science of it, it's using something called the Helmholtz resonator principle,

1150
01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:02,920
Speaker 3: which is just a muting. I don't know, man, it's

1151
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:07,280
Speaker 3: about like taking it's a Hamlt's resonata, man, thank you,

1152
01:02:07,680 --> 01:02:10,960
Speaker 3: it's a Hamultz resonating exactly. It's using car mufflers and

1153
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:12,920
Speaker 3: things like that. It's like, I don't know. Look, I'm

1154
01:02:12,920 --> 01:02:14,919
Speaker 3: not a I'm not a science guy. I'm only into

1155
01:02:15,040 --> 01:02:18,080
Speaker 3: weird digital SMM products. That's why this had caught my eye.

1156
01:02:18,320 --> 01:02:21,120
Speaker 3: But like, so it's being marketed as a device for

1157
01:02:21,160 --> 01:02:23,480
Speaker 3: people who are on the phone who like want to

1158
01:02:23,520 --> 01:02:26,120
Speaker 3: be on a wild ass conversation in public or something,

1159
01:02:26,280 --> 01:02:29,040
Speaker 3: or at gamers. That way, you don't wake your family

1160
01:02:29,160 --> 01:02:31,960
Speaker 3: while just getting totally pooned on Fortnite or some shit.

1161
01:02:32,520 --> 01:02:36,080
Speaker 1: And so I get one of these things on Donald Trump,

1162
01:02:36,440 --> 01:02:40,800
Speaker 1: oh Base, Yeah, that's gonna be. We send a pack

1163
01:02:40,880 --> 01:02:45,360
Speaker 1: of these two Congress maybe thanks Bill Mahrk.

1164
01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:48,680
Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean I get the need for something

1165
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:52,480
Speaker 3: like this if I guess you're allowed talker in public,

1166
01:02:52,560 --> 01:02:57,280
Speaker 3: but it's it doesn't might it just doesn't make sense fully, Blair,

1167
01:02:57,280 --> 01:03:00,480
Speaker 3: what are your thoughts on a device like a fucking

1168
01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:01,480
Speaker 3: bomb you?

1169
01:03:02,200 --> 01:03:06,280
Speaker 6: I'm conflicted. Honestly, there's part of me the loves the idea.

1170
01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:09,640
Speaker 6: But then also if I get the fantastical side of

1171
01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:13,880
Speaker 6: my brain, it's like that sounds cool. The other more

1172
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:19,120
Speaker 6: responsible high school principal in me says, we must stop

1173
01:03:19,280 --> 01:03:24,280
Speaker 6: this now before we are taking over.

1174
01:03:25,120 --> 01:03:28,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, what's that? It looks like a view finder like

1175
01:03:28,440 --> 01:03:31,000
Speaker 1: that want of you know, like it looks like a

1176
01:03:31,120 --> 01:03:33,320
Speaker 1: you finder that goes over your mouth. It looks like

1177
01:03:33,360 --> 01:03:34,720
Speaker 1: an oculus for your mouth.

1178
01:03:35,160 --> 01:03:36,720
Speaker 6: Oculus is such a sick word.

1179
01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:41,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, that they got they got the good name back then.

1180
01:03:42,760 --> 01:03:48,800
Speaker 1: They should call it the talk u Less. Yeah, you

1181
01:03:48,960 --> 01:03:50,160
Speaker 1: talk fucking sucks.

1182
01:03:50,200 --> 01:03:50,440
Speaker 5: I was.

1183
01:03:50,600 --> 01:03:52,440
Speaker 1: That was my main note for this is that the

1184
01:03:53,040 --> 01:03:55,560
Speaker 1: it looks like an S and M device and the

1185
01:03:55,640 --> 01:03:58,760
Speaker 1: name sucks. It sounds like a like something having to

1186
01:03:58,800 --> 01:04:02,120
Speaker 1: do with mucus or something thing. But yeah, it's like Tom,

1187
01:04:02,400 --> 01:04:07,680
Speaker 1: you less miles, Look, Howard are you bare? I ask

1188
01:04:07,760 --> 01:04:08,760
Speaker 1: myself that every.

1189
01:04:08,600 --> 01:04:11,600
Speaker 3: Death, because I have so much debt that all my

1190
01:04:11,640 --> 01:04:13,320
Speaker 3: billions go to the servicing my debt.

1191
01:04:13,560 --> 01:04:14,800
Speaker 1: I have billions in debt.

1192
01:04:14,720 --> 01:04:19,400
Speaker 3: Jackson, I am under somehow I have billion dollars worth

1193
01:04:19,400 --> 01:04:22,840
Speaker 3: of debt. But the reviews are also decidedly men. Like

1194
01:04:22,880 --> 01:04:25,200
Speaker 3: people are like, I don't know, you can use it.

1195
01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:27,760
Speaker 3: It kind of sounds like it's definitely muffled, but your

1196
01:04:27,960 --> 01:04:30,040
Speaker 3: kind of mouth has to get used to talking like

1197
01:04:30,080 --> 01:04:32,920
Speaker 3: in this little tiny box the whole time. But the

1198
01:04:32,960 --> 01:04:36,520
Speaker 3: company behind this is Japanese, which now makes a lot

1199
01:04:36,560 --> 01:04:39,240
Speaker 3: more sense to me, because since being audible in public

1200
01:04:39,360 --> 01:04:42,120
Speaker 3: is like peak rudeness, Like you do not want to

1201
01:04:42,120 --> 01:04:44,000
Speaker 3: be out here on your phone in public, so I guess,

1202
01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:46,560
Speaker 3: like if you absolutely had to, this is like the wave.

1203
01:04:47,040 --> 01:04:50,640
Speaker 3: But they also this same company makes this other device

1204
01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:55,080
Speaker 3: called the wear Space, and it's like horse blinders for

1205
01:04:55,200 --> 01:04:58,480
Speaker 3: a human. It looks like a it's like a noise

1206
01:04:58,520 --> 01:05:03,600
Speaker 3: canceling headset that can basically like envelop your entire head.

1207
01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:06,680
Speaker 1: Blair, I know you're laughing just by looking at this thing.

1208
01:05:07,000 --> 01:05:09,760
Speaker 6: I'm well, no, I mean, I gotta, I gotta make

1209
01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:12,480
Speaker 6: a hard turn and say this. Actually this company seems

1210
01:05:12,520 --> 01:05:14,680
Speaker 6: suited for my knees, because I was like, that sounds

1211
01:05:14,680 --> 01:05:17,000
Speaker 6: like my heaven. I try to check out.

1212
01:05:17,680 --> 01:05:21,400
Speaker 1: Take me blind, take me to horse blind.

1213
01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:25,960
Speaker 3: Mute me, yeah, put me in the matrix.

1214
01:05:26,440 --> 01:05:30,400
Speaker 1: This all looks like like you know how every year

1215
01:05:30,480 --> 01:05:35,000
Speaker 1: there's a new American horror story like cover like cover

1216
01:05:35,120 --> 01:05:37,760
Speaker 1: art that comes out. This all looks like that ship

1217
01:05:37,840 --> 01:05:39,480
Speaker 1: to me, like it just yeah.

1218
01:05:39,640 --> 01:05:42,760
Speaker 3: Between the wear Space and Mutak. The wear Space from

1219
01:05:42,760 --> 01:05:45,080
Speaker 3: the designers is quote. It's a device that allows yous

1220
01:05:45,080 --> 01:05:48,720
Speaker 3: to wear a personalized space, equipped with the noise cancelation

1221
01:05:48,840 --> 01:05:52,960
Speaker 3: technology and a partitioning function that visually blocks portions of

1222
01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:53,520
Speaker 3: the space.

1223
01:05:54,200 --> 01:05:58,840
Speaker 1: It allows horse blinder. It's not space horse wearing space

1224
01:05:59,560 --> 01:06:03,040
Speaker 1: horse blind. You stay in your lane. That also allows

1225
01:06:03,080 --> 01:06:06,400
Speaker 1: words to quote instantly create a psychological boundary with their

1226
01:06:06,440 --> 01:06:09,760
Speaker 1: surroundings and acquire a personal space while being in such

1227
01:06:09,880 --> 01:06:16,160
Speaker 1: open environments. Keep yeah, Blairs just did ten burpies.

1228
01:06:16,880 --> 01:06:21,880
Speaker 8: I was like, oh yeah, that's incredible. Actually that psychological

1229
01:06:22,120 --> 01:06:23,680
Speaker 8: barrier coming up.

1230
01:06:23,800 --> 01:06:26,800
Speaker 6: Give me that psychological barrier. I haven't searching for that.

1231
01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:29,800
Speaker 1: My whole life. It's like, yeah, so this is interesting too.

1232
01:06:29,800 --> 01:06:32,720
Speaker 3: It says it's equipped with a visual angle adjustment mechanism,

1233
01:06:32,760 --> 01:06:35,600
Speaker 3: which just sounds like some kind of like bendable thing

1234
01:06:35,720 --> 01:06:39,080
Speaker 3: to just maybe block off your field of vision, operated

1235
01:06:39,120 --> 01:06:42,280
Speaker 3: by opening closing the partition a noise cancelation function and

1236
01:06:42,280 --> 01:06:45,440
Speaker 3: a sound filtering function that allows you just to customize

1237
01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:48,160
Speaker 3: only those sounds they don't want to miss, such as

1238
01:06:48,160 --> 01:06:50,680
Speaker 3: someone calling their name or knocking on the door.

1239
01:06:51,280 --> 01:06:54,439
Speaker 1: This is uh, this is this does invent a new

1240
01:06:55,120 --> 01:06:58,040
Speaker 1: rudest thing to do when someone asks you a question

1241
01:06:59,040 --> 01:07:05,200
Speaker 1: side and then block yourself yeah, and then look at

1242
01:07:05,200 --> 01:07:07,840
Speaker 1: them again and then put them you talk over your back.

1243
01:07:09,240 --> 01:07:11,240
Speaker 6: I need one of those. I need one of those.

1244
01:07:11,320 --> 01:07:13,000
Speaker 6: I will spend all my money on that.

1245
01:07:13,520 --> 01:07:15,840
Speaker 1: What would you how would you use this horse blinder

1246
01:07:15,840 --> 01:07:18,280
Speaker 1: for humans? Like? What context are you thinking? Okay, this

1247
01:07:18,320 --> 01:07:19,760
Speaker 1: is this has Blair Hockey written over.

1248
01:07:19,800 --> 01:07:22,000
Speaker 6: I'm thinking twenty three hours a day.

1249
01:07:21,880 --> 01:07:23,120
Speaker 1: I come out.

1250
01:07:26,760 --> 01:07:31,400
Speaker 6: It's like, you know, I've always looked at turtles. I've

1251
01:07:31,440 --> 01:07:37,040
Speaker 6: been so extremely jealous of turtles. They can just retract

1252
01:07:37,120 --> 01:07:40,720
Speaker 6: inside their home built in. It's incredible saying no, thank you,

1253
01:07:40,760 --> 01:07:45,600
Speaker 6: go back inside. Now, someone's mid conversation. The turtle just

1254
01:07:45,640 --> 01:07:49,160
Speaker 6: goes back bye bye. Yeah Michelle, And this would be

1255
01:07:49,360 --> 01:07:50,200
Speaker 6: like that for me.

1256
01:07:50,920 --> 01:07:53,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, like a like a like a like an online

1257
01:07:53,800 --> 01:07:56,000
Speaker 3: dating app date isn't going well, and you're like, actually,

1258
01:07:56,040 --> 01:07:58,320
Speaker 3: just one second, while you're talking about crypto, hold on,

1259
01:07:58,400 --> 01:07:59,640
Speaker 3: let me get this one.

1260
01:08:00,760 --> 01:08:06,560
Speaker 1: Goodbye, goodbye, goodbye in.

1261
01:08:06,560 --> 01:08:08,240
Speaker 6: This conversation right now.

1262
01:08:09,480 --> 01:08:11,520
Speaker 3: I do like that it has like ego adjustments. So

1263
01:08:11,560 --> 01:08:13,240
Speaker 3: it's like, I mean, the one thing you do want

1264
01:08:13,240 --> 01:08:15,640
Speaker 3: to cut through is someone saying your name. Yeah, so

1265
01:08:15,920 --> 01:08:17,479
Speaker 3: you know that that will wake you out of your

1266
01:08:17,479 --> 01:08:18,200
Speaker 3: digital comba.

1267
01:08:18,200 --> 01:08:22,800
Speaker 1: How does it does it learn your name? I don't know.

1268
01:08:22,800 --> 01:08:24,800
Speaker 1: I just open it up a little bit more.

1269
01:08:24,920 --> 01:08:27,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's probably like any noise canceling stuff that can

1270
01:08:27,800 --> 01:08:32,000
Speaker 3: kind of give you brief like fil sound filtering. But yeah, again,

1271
01:08:32,640 --> 01:08:35,960
Speaker 3: this thing is all it's all very futuristic. I don't

1272
01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:39,519
Speaker 3: know what it's saying about us. Talk about brother's little helper.

1273
01:08:40,240 --> 01:08:45,080
Speaker 3: Just tune those kids out, talk shit about them to

1274
01:08:45,120 --> 01:08:47,960
Speaker 3: your friends and into the mutalk right.

1275
01:08:48,720 --> 01:08:50,200
Speaker 1: Like, I can't believe him.

1276
01:08:50,240 --> 01:08:57,760
Speaker 9: He's so fucking embarrassing my kid, so selfish anyways, Uh,

1277
01:08:57,880 --> 01:09:01,120
Speaker 9: true nightmare that we're living in. But I mean, for

1278
01:09:01,120 --> 01:09:03,880
Speaker 9: some a fantasy, as we've learned, Blair, this this thing

1279
01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:05,000
Speaker 9: might be purpose built for you.

1280
01:09:05,360 --> 01:09:08,479
Speaker 6: Oh no, I mean this was this person we've never met,

1281
01:09:08,520 --> 01:09:13,599
Speaker 6: but they're my greatest lover of all time. Soul there

1282
01:09:13,600 --> 01:09:16,519
Speaker 6: in my spirit, during my mind, body, spirit soul.

1283
01:09:17,000 --> 01:09:20,800
Speaker 1: You just see a couple both wearing wear spaces with utahs,

1284
01:09:20,840 --> 01:09:24,080
Speaker 1: Like just like, that's.

1285
01:09:23,960 --> 01:09:26,880
Speaker 6: My dream, that's my literal dream.

1286
01:09:27,320 --> 01:09:29,120
Speaker 3: Like I just like to feel that someone's there. I

1287
01:09:29,120 --> 01:09:31,440
Speaker 3: don't want to acknowledge them really beyond that.

1288
01:09:31,439 --> 01:09:33,640
Speaker 6: That is your romance in my heart.

1289
01:09:33,920 --> 01:09:38,759
Speaker 1: Oh fuck amazing. All right, that's gonna do it for

1290
01:09:38,880 --> 01:09:42,960
Speaker 1: this week's weekly Zeitgeist. Please like and review the show

1291
01:09:43,600 --> 01:09:47,439
Speaker 1: if you like. The show means the world to Miles.

1292
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:51,840
Speaker 1: He he needs your validation, folks. I hope you're having

1293
01:09:51,880 --> 01:09:54,880
Speaker 1: a great weekend and I will talk to him Monday.

1294
01:09:54,880 --> 01:10:20,879
Speaker 1: By nothing,