1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here, 2 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: and we here at Breaking Points, are already thinking of 3 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election. 4 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:11,719 Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade 5 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 2: the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent 6 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:17,440 Speaker 2: coverage that is possible. If you like what we're all about, 7 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:20,080 Speaker 2: it just means the absolute world to have your support. 8 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 2: But enough with that, let's get to the show. 9 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:38,920 Speaker 1: Friend of show YouTuber s On had recently put out 10 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 1: a long video about the epidemic of male loneliness that 11 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 1: we thought was really interesting, so we invited her on 12 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:46,199 Speaker 1: Breaking Points to discuss it with us. 13 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 3: Shoo, welcome, Hi, thank you for having me. 14 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, of course, so we pulled a little bit of 15 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 1: what you had to say on the topic, and we 16 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 1: love to get your thoughts on the other side. But 17 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 1: first let's take a listen to a bit of the 18 00:00:57,480 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 1: beginning of the video. 19 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 4: I regret to inform you the men are not okay. 20 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 4: That's right, folks, the men are not okay. The men 21 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 4: have no friends, no girlfriend, no college education, no money, 22 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 4: are breaking their legs and inserting metal rods into their bones. 23 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 4: To be a few inches taller and listening to Ai 24 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 4: Batman help them overcome their biography addictions, you deserve real love. 25 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:24,400 Speaker 4: Turns out the society that was built by and allegedly four. 26 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 3: Men as indeed let them down. 27 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 4: Now you might be thinking, oh, look another boo hoo 28 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:31,400 Speaker 4: poor men video by Shoe one Head. 29 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 1: Yes, June one inspired this video. 30 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:38,960 Speaker 5: So I've been talking about subjects like this since about 31 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 5: like twenty fourteen, and like men issues and stuff like that, 32 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:45,759 Speaker 5: and I would criticize things like pop feminism. 33 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 3: I don't know if you remember back in. 34 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 5: The day, like twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, there was a 35 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 5: big wave of like anti men, sort of quirky tumbler 36 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 5: type of feminism back in the day, and so that 37 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 5: was my whole, Like Brendon Butter, I would just talk 38 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 5: about issues like that, and I would get like crapped 39 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 5: on for that and everything, hold men's rights activiness, sort 40 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:08,359 Speaker 5: of pick me and everything. 41 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 3: And then rewind. 42 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:13,920 Speaker 5: Now about nine years later, ten years later, even a 43 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:16,639 Speaker 5: lot of the left is start, like the online left 44 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 5: is starting to talk about these subjects, which is great. 45 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 5: It's really refreshing to see that, but it's kind of 46 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 5: only in a reaction to the rise of people like 47 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 5: Jordan Peterson and Andrew Tate, and I feel like there's 48 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 5: there was this void for a long time of people 49 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 5: not really caring about men and like how they're feeling 50 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 5: and what they're going through, and how alienation specifically affects them, 51 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 5: and how society technology things like that, what they're doing 52 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:49,360 Speaker 5: to men and their issues, and so I kind of 53 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:52,360 Speaker 5: feel like I needed to be like, hey, like. 54 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 3: In a nice way. 55 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 5: Look, guys, I told you so, Like we should have 56 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 5: been talking about these issues for a really long time. 57 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 3: But it's nice to see that we're all on the 58 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 3: same page now. Oh go ahead, Oh. 59 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 5: Sorry, I just I feel like that it's a good 60 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 5: thing that we're talking about this now, but it's almost like. 61 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:12,959 Speaker 3: Oh, it's a little too late. So I feel the 62 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 3: same way. 63 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we've been talking about it here for 64 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:17,080 Speaker 2: literally for years also over and Rising. One of the 65 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 2: most poignant elements actually was a lot of the comments 66 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 2: that were left on the video, some of which we have. 67 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 2: Let's go and put some of these up there on 68 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 2: the screen. They say, quote, when you ask yourself, why 69 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 2: am I not putting an end to my suffering? And 70 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 2: only argument is they would make my mother sad. It 71 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 2: doesn't feel good, bros. Let's go to the next one. 72 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 2: Here it says I love how often they are saying, oh, 73 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 2: you can't get laid, boohoo when we talk about men 74 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 2: being lonely, is that all we care about is sex 75 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 2: when most of us just want somebody to hold us 76 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 2: at night and to feel seen. We have another one 77 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 2: that we could put up there. 78 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 6: Sex is nice. 79 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 2: Is easy to think it's going to fix everything if 80 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 2: you just get laid, but really it's not. Men need 81 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 2: intimacy in more forms than just fucking. Let's go to 82 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 2: the next one. As a guy, all I want is 83 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 2: for someone to care about me besides my mom and dad. 84 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 2: Some of these are just absolutely brutal. There's a lot 85 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 2: of longer, real stories that were left in some of 86 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 2: your comments. We've seen similar reactions here to videos we've 87 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 2: done about the plights of men and all that. And yet, 88 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 2: as you said, it's only now becoming in vogue to 89 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 2: talk about it as a reaction, not to even try 90 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 2: and acknowledge the problem on its face. So I mean, 91 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 2: what did you make of the reaction? Was it what 92 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 2: you expected? And what do you think is some of 93 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 2: the bad ways that people can. 94 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 3: Talk about it. 95 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 5: So I was actually so surprised at my comment section. 96 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 5: It was probably the most depressing comment section I've ever seen. 97 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:38,720 Speaker 5: All these men talking about how lonely they feel, how 98 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:41,559 Speaker 5: highly neated they feel, how social media has made it worse, 99 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:45,479 Speaker 5: things like that, And I thought the video would be 100 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 5: a very like, you know, taken well video. Everyone would 101 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 5: be like, oh, that's so true, but there was a 102 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 5: lot of backlash. I think the best way that we 103 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 5: can go about talking about this is just in a 104 00:04:55,560 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 5: way that kind of just talks about the issue, not 105 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:04,359 Speaker 5: just like, oh, you know, don't go to Andrew Tate, 106 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 5: don't go to the right, come to us, we need you, 107 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 5: you know, like that sort of thing. 108 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 3: That's not really how you tackle this. 109 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:16,840 Speaker 5: You talk about the actual things that are affecting them. 110 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:19,159 Speaker 5: Because if you're like, oh, we only care about men 111 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 5: because you know, we want you on our. 112 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 3: Side, that's not a good way to go about it. 113 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 5: It's kind of transparent, and if you're sort of an 114 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 5: a political sort of guy just dealing with these subjects, 115 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:31,160 Speaker 5: you're not really going to listen to. 116 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 3: Someone like that. 117 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 5: But if you actually care and talk about the subject, 118 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:37,359 Speaker 5: I feel like it will be a lot more effective 119 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 5: of helping men in general, and they would be less 120 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:47,359 Speaker 5: inclined to go to people like Andrew Tate. So I 121 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:50,480 Speaker 5: think the best way to talk about subjects like this 122 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 5: would be like the alienation how it affects men in general, 123 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 5: the how they're dropping out of college things like that, 124 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:02,479 Speaker 5: which affects the pay that they get, and to men, 125 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 5: especially men. I know, like making money is a really 126 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:10,360 Speaker 5: big deal for everybody, but the way that men, like 127 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 5: a lot of men find women, how men like get 128 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 5: a relationship is making more money than a woman. Yeah, 129 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 5: and today a lot of women have great jobs, which 130 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 5: is great and careers and everything like that, but sometimes 131 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 5: they're making more money than most men. And so there's 132 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 5: this like weird balance where it's like, Okay, the women 133 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 5: are actually you know, they have their own money and 134 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 5: they have all this, and so like the men are 135 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:37,599 Speaker 5: being kind of like left behind, and like. 136 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 3: It's it's all really comes down. 137 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 5: It's like most things, it's almost a trickle down from 138 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 5: like economics, right, wages are really low and although people 139 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 5: are working more hours, which also if people are working more, 140 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:54,039 Speaker 5: they don't have time to even hang out with friends 141 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,040 Speaker 5: or go on dates or anything like that. It's all 142 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:02,160 Speaker 5: really trickling down from economic pus as you Yeah. 143 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:03,680 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously as someone on the left, I think 144 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 1: the left's like economic program would be much more beneficial 145 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: not just to men, but to everyone in the country. 146 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 1: But I do think there can be a blind spot 147 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: because we do focus so much on the systemic issues, 148 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: which I do think is the most important thing. That 149 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 1: there is a lack of people who are saying, here 150 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 1: are things you can do in your own life and 151 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:22,559 Speaker 1: not have to wait for, like, you know, thirty years 152 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 1: for Congress to get their act together, or to have 153 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: a president who's going to like institute a living wage 154 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 1: or whatever. I think there's a real void for that 155 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: kind of a conversation, which, as you said, you know, 156 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 1: part of the problem is when this emerges, it's oftentimes 157 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: in the context of where worried men are moving to 158 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: the right, and we need them to be our political ally, 159 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: So what can we say to pander to them, to 160 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 1: convince them that they should be on our team rather 161 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: than a genuine concern for what's actually going on in 162 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 1: their lives. 163 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 5: Yeah, Like I said in my video, it's like the 164 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 5: left has all these great policies, but then absolutely drops 165 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 5: the ball when it comes to cultural issues. So they 166 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 5: don't really unders stand like how dating apps, for exact ample, 167 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 5: are like affecting men more than women, and how like 168 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 5: all these things they don't really care, they're just. 169 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 1: More Can you actually talk more about that, because I 170 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 1: thought that was an interesting piece. What is why would 171 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 1: you say dating apps affect men more than women? 172 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 5: So because there's this study that shows that like eighty 173 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 5: percent of the women go to a very small percent 174 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 5: of men, So like they're all basically picking the same man, right, 175 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 5: because like back when you've. 176 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 2: Had a. 177 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 5: Back when you had like you lived in like a 178 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 5: little small town or something, or you had like this community, 179 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:43,079 Speaker 5: it was like, oh you met men and women met 180 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 5: each other that way, and a guy didn't have to 181 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:49,439 Speaker 5: have like what what they say, like what a six pack, 182 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 5: six figure, six bugotti whatever to get a woman. 183 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 3: But now that people have, like I guess, more of a. 184 00:08:55,960 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 5: Choice, they're not even they're kind of window shopping on men, 185 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 5: right because men, first of all, don't know how to 186 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 5: take a. 187 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 3: Picture to save their life. 188 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 5: So it's like they're taking these awful pictures of themselves 189 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:10,200 Speaker 5: and people they're just like judging a book by its 190 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:12,320 Speaker 5: cover and just swiping on them. Oh they don't have this, 191 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 5: they don't have that whatever. And so it's a little 192 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 5: harder for like a good normal guy to find a 193 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 5: woman when they're all going to the same men, like, 194 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 5: you know, with the six packs and everything. And there's 195 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 5: actually studies that have shown that men are actually developing. 196 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 5: Men on dating apps are more likely to have bulimia 197 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 5: than women on dating apps. 198 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 3: There's like, there's all. 199 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 5: This, there's like almost a it's you always think of 200 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 5: like eating disorders as things that women have, but because 201 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 5: of all the pressure of dating apps, men are starting 202 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 5: to develop things like that. They're also taking more steroids 203 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 5: than men who aren't on dating apps and things like that. 204 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 5: It's actually really interesting. 205 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 2: I want to get to some of the backlas they 206 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 2: talked about. I always find it fascinating, you know. I 207 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:05,199 Speaker 2: guess you know, I don't personally ever experienced backlash because 208 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 2: I'm mostly preaching to the choir on this, but you 209 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:09,560 Speaker 2: certainly did. We have one example here we can put 210 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:13,080 Speaker 2: up on the screen, and what it essentially boiled down 211 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 2: to is that the solution to male loneliness is literally 212 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 2: just being a better person. I don't know the best 213 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 2: way to like frame it, but it basically is like, well, 214 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:26,079 Speaker 2: if you were better then you know, if men stop 215 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 2: being so shitty effectively as a thesis as then they 216 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:31,719 Speaker 2: would be better off, probably the best way to say. 217 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:35,080 Speaker 2: You especially encounter this in elite liberal circles where there 218 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 2: are a lot of futures female t shirts. What do 219 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,960 Speaker 2: you think your response, I think to the backlash that 220 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:45,679 Speaker 2: effectively boiled down to that critique is and where does 221 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 2: it come from? 222 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 5: I just think it's interesting that like for all these groups, 223 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 5: for all of their issues, it's always you know, socioeconomic 224 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 5: factors and things like this, and then when it comes 225 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 5: to men, it's just, you know, pull yourselves up by 226 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 5: your bootstraps. I think that's really funny and interesting. But 227 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 5: that tweet in particular, it's funny because it also implies 228 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 5: that lonely people are just bad people, and that's not 229 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 5: that's not the case whatsoever. But the backlash was insane. 230 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:16,679 Speaker 5: It was worse than I thought it was. A lot 231 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 5: of people just didn't watch the video and assumed that 232 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 5: I was blaming women, even though I did not even 233 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 5: mention it. 234 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:24,079 Speaker 3: I think I mentioned women like once and. 235 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 5: It was to say that, you know, they're also lonely, 236 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 5: but the way that the media it's framing women being 237 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 5: lonely is very different than how they're framing men being lonely. 238 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 3: But no, I did not blame women, and yet that's 239 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:36,640 Speaker 3: what the whole. 240 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:38,680 Speaker 5: Internet thought that video was about for some reason. It 241 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 5: was mostly you know, alienation under capitalism and things like 242 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:47,440 Speaker 5: that technology to go full ted k but a lot 243 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 5: to do with that, and it was just funny to 244 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 5: see the complete but just to see the backlash of oh, oh, 245 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:00,560 Speaker 5: of course it's a woman's job, you know, and it's like, no, 246 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:03,680 Speaker 5: I never I never said that, never implied that, and. 247 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:09,320 Speaker 1: Let me know ask because I mean, obviously the nefarious 248 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 1: characters in the space, like the Andrew Tates, it's not 249 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 1: just like go men and here's, you know, some tips 250 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 1: to make yourself desirable, et cetera. I mean there is 251 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 1: a healthy dose of hating women that goes. 252 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 3: Along with obviously, yes and why right. 253 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 1: And so I think that's why there's a sensitivity to it. 254 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:29,080 Speaker 1: To be like fair to the people who level what 255 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:31,720 Speaker 1: I think, are you know, ridiculous like critiques of your video, 256 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 1: which didn't do any. 257 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:33,079 Speaker 6: Of that. 258 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 1: Even though in the like is there attention though between 259 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 1: identifying some of the legitimate issues that men are facing 260 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:47,559 Speaker 1: and saying like women have it too good or feminism 261 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 1: has gone too far, et cetera. I'll give you example 262 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 1: of something that you said earlier, which is I think 263 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 1: accurate that you know men societally, like they're part of 264 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 1: being or being a man is being the breadwinner. And 265 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 1: so when you have partner or a lot of women 266 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:04,079 Speaker 1: around you are actually earning more than you, that can 267 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: be sort of emasculating. So how do you approach that 268 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 1: without the answer than being like, these hoes need to 269 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: get back in the kitchen basically, and they need to 270 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: earn less money than us, like God intended, right. 271 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 3: So that's the whole thing. Like, I don't think I. 272 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 5: Think the issue is that men aren't fulfilled in their 273 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 5: jobs at all. And the issue again always comes down 274 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 5: to these like economic factors. They're working longer for less 275 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 5: pay and things like that. And I don't think it 276 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:36,319 Speaker 5: has anything to do with feminism or anything like that. 277 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 3: It's just that now you. 278 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 5: Know, women can also work, but men are doing terrible 279 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 5: in college. I don't know if you've seen the statistics 280 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 5: but they're dropping out of college, and I think we 281 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 5: really have to like get to the root of that, 282 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 5: like why is that happening. 283 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 3: And things like that. And I don't think. 284 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 5: I don't think this like gender war is going to 285 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 5: help whatsoever, just going to make things worse. And that's 286 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:00,960 Speaker 5: why it's easy for people like and W. Tate and 287 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 5: all those types of people to point the finger right 288 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 5: like women are the scapegoat to this problem when it's 289 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:06,560 Speaker 5: really not. 290 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 3: And I feel like you need to. 291 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 5: Really hammer on that, like we're all part of society. 292 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 5: A lot of these things like alienation and technology affect 293 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 5: women to it affects all of us. 294 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 3: It affects all of us differently too, So. 295 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 5: I think you need to like focus hyper focus on 296 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 5: like the real big picture and not just scapegoat people who. 297 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 3: Aren't doing nothing wrong. 298 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 5: Women aren't doing anything wrong by like making money and 299 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 5: having a job and like wanting a person who can 300 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 5: provide for them. 301 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 3: That's not like a negative thing. 302 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 5: It's just that society a lot of these things seem 303 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 5: to be leaving men behind when it should be not 304 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 5: dragging women behind or you know, pushing women more. 305 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 3: Like above everybody. 306 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 5: It should be like pushing everyone who is behind further, 307 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 5: whether it's I don't know, like disenfranchised minorities or things 308 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 5: like that, Like everyone should be at the same level, 309 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 5: and so we're starting to see things like leap some 310 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 5: people behind, and I feel like we should get to 311 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 5: the core of that before we start pointing fingers and 312 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 5: like looking for scapegoats, because it's not healthy at all. 313 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, one thing that I've noticed, and by 314 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 1: the way, I realy should go watch the whole video. 315 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 3: I think it. 316 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: You know, you did a great job with that. I 317 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: always enjoy your content tooo. But you know, one thing 318 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 1: with the identity focused progressive lens is it provides an 319 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 1: explanation for why minority groups or historically oppressed groups aren't 320 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 1: doing well, But it does not provide any analysis for 321 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 1: why white men, white CIS men in particular would be failing, 322 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 1: other than to say it must be you, like you 323 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 1: must suck. That's the only explanation that we have for this, 324 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 1: because you're not black, you're not a woman, you're not trends, 325 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 1: and you're not you know, historically disenfranchised, So it must 326 00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 1: be that you just suck. And so I think this 327 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 1: is sort of where where the rubber meets the road, 328 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 1: and why there's been a real failure here in terms 329 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 1: of addressing what are obviously real issues. So thank you 330 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 1: so much, June. It's always great to see you and 331 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 1: always enjoy your work. 332 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 6: Thank you. 333 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 3: Yes, it's our pleasure. Thank you for having me. 334 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 7: Well. 335 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 2: Health Organization now classifies the low calorie sweetener aspartame as 336 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 2: a possible cost synogen. 337 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 8: This morning, the World Health Organization is out with what 338 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 8: appears to be a troubling headline about the artificial sweetener aspartame. 339 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 8: Any experts here in the US are highly critical of 340 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 8: the report the FDA, saying scientific evidence has continued to 341 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 8: support the FDA's conclusion that aspartame is safe for the 342 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 8: general population. 343 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 9: I think the main thing is that aspertame is a 344 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 9: safe substance can be consumed in quite large amounts, much 345 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 9: larger than the humans generally consume. 346 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 10: Well, which is it? Should I be worried? Is the 347 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 10: news fear mongering? In who should consumers turn to for 348 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 10: trustworthy nutrition information? 349 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:10,720 Speaker 11: The spokeswerson for the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics. The 350 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:13,399 Speaker 11: Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics urges you to start the 351 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:15,120 Speaker 11: day off rite with a healthy breakfast. 352 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 3: The spokesperson for the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics. 353 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:21,360 Speaker 10: Well, based on my research, when there are conflicting dietary 354 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 10: guidelines in the news, experts recommend turning to the Academy 355 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:29,640 Speaker 10: of Nutrition and Dietetics, the world's largest organization of nutrition 356 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 10: and dietetics practitioners representing over one hundred thousand credentialed dietitians, 357 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 10: nutrition practitioners, and students. Taking a look at their recent 358 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 10: press release addressing Aspertain, they said that they quote believe 359 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 10: scientific research and evidence based practice form the basis for 360 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 10: healthful eating recommendations. 361 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 12: And I really do believe that student nutrition is a science. 362 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:54,360 Speaker 10: And according to science, aspertain is safe until further evidence 363 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 10: can be generated. But are there recommendations solely based on 364 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:01,120 Speaker 10: science or are there other core rupting influences. 365 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:02,399 Speaker 6: Let's dive in. 366 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 10: Bounded in nineteen seventeen as the American Dietetic Association by 367 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 10: a group of women led by Lenna F. Cooper and 368 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 10: the Academy's first president, Luluji Graves, for the purpose of 369 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 10: helping the government can serve food and improve public health 370 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 10: during World War One. Over the next one hundred years, 371 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:20,160 Speaker 10: the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics rose to prominence as 372 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,359 Speaker 10: the standard bearer for advancing the profession of nutrition and 373 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 10: dietetics through research, education and advocacy. 374 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 9: That's who is educating our nation's dietitians, who then go 375 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:34,920 Speaker 9: out and tell all of us how we got it e. 376 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:38,119 Speaker 10: This is Gary Ruskin, the executive director and co founder 377 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 10: of US Right to Know, a nonprofit public health research 378 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 10: group that investigates corporate wrongdoing and government failures that threaten 379 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 10: our health, environment, and food system. Late last year, after 380 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,879 Speaker 10: an extensive five year investigation and pouring through tens of 381 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,159 Speaker 10: thousands of pages of internal Academy documents that Gary and 382 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 10: his team obtained through public records requests, US Right to 383 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 10: Know co authored a bombshell study detailing the Academy's symbiotic 384 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:07,919 Speaker 10: relationship with multinational food, pharmaceutical, and agribusiness corporations, and that 385 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:11,119 Speaker 10: the Academy acts as a quote pro industry voice with 386 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:14,680 Speaker 10: policy positions that sometimes clash with its mission to improve 387 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 10: health globally. Recently, I spoke to Gary to really understand 388 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:21,159 Speaker 10: the magnitude of the kinds of conflicts of interest they 389 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 10: found between the Academy and various big food companies. 390 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 9: So first thing was that we found millions of dollars 391 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 9: for a bunch of process food and pharmaceutical and agribusiness 392 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:32,960 Speaker 9: companies flowing to the Academy. 393 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 3: Yes. 394 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 10: The study reports that the Academy accepted more than fifteen 395 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 10: million dollars from corporate and organizational contributors in the years 396 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 10: twenty eleven and twenty thirteen to twenty seventeen, according to 397 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:46,640 Speaker 10: its draft IRS forms nine to ninety. Hot contributors include 398 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:49,959 Speaker 10: the who's who of big food, con Agra, Pepsi, Coo, 399 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:54,399 Speaker 10: Coca Cola, Hershey's, General Mills, and Kellogg. So I think 400 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 10: the question we should all be asking is how do 401 00:19:56,440 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 10: such financial influence manifest in the Academy's guide lines and recommendations. 402 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 10: The answer, as Gary found out, is all kinds of 403 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:07,119 Speaker 10: different ways, one of them being through these nutrition fact sheets. 404 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 10: Cocoa and chocolate Sweet news. Did you know that Coco 405 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:14,919 Speaker 10: packs a powerful antioxidant punch sponsored by Hershey Center for 406 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,399 Speaker 10: Health and Nutrition, Eggs a Good Choice for Moms to 407 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 10: be sponsored by the Egg Nutrition Center. Adult Beverage Consumption 408 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:27,919 Speaker 10: making Responsible drinking Choices sponsored by the Distilled Spirits Council 409 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 10: of the United States or on. 410 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 9: The sponsors, they corruptly buy influence, and it's all in 411 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:36,359 Speaker 9: black and white, like they admitted. 412 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,400 Speaker 10: Not only that a number of the Academy's boarded directors 413 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:43,640 Speaker 10: have extremely close relationships with ultra processed food and chemical corporations. 414 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,960 Speaker 10: Pope Worshaw has been a consultant to the Calorie Control Council, 415 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:51,440 Speaker 10: which promotes artificial sweeteners, and to McNeil Nutritionals, which manufacture 416 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 10: splenda and sucrolose. Mary Lee Chin currently consults with Aginamoto 417 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 10: Bayer and previously with Monsanto. Sylvia Rowe is a former 418 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 10: president and chief executive of the International Food Information Council, 419 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 10: a food industry funded front group that aids ultra processed 420 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 10: food and pesticide companies with product defense campaigns. And she's 421 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 10: also a former vice president for Communications of the Sugar Association. 422 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 10: This is bad enough in most cases, but oh there's more. 423 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 9: Maybe the most amazing thing that I just never ever 424 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 9: would have guessed that we found was that the Academy 425 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 9: actually invested in ultra processed food companies. 426 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 10: That's right. Internal investment documents obtained through FOYA show that 427 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,680 Speaker 10: in twenty fifteen and twenty sixteen, the Academy held more 428 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 10: than a million dollars worth of stock in Nesley and PepsiCo. 429 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,480 Speaker 10: You could argue free market, but funny enough. Emails, once 430 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,679 Speaker 10: again obtained through FOYA, revealed that some of the Academy's 431 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 10: leadership were aware that this presented a potential conflict of interest. 432 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 10: This email was sent by Donna Martin, a prominent Academy spokesperson. Quote, 433 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:54,159 Speaker 10: everything looks good to me. The only flag that I 434 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,960 Speaker 10: saw was that PepsiCo is one of our top ten stocks. 435 00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 10: I personally like PepsiCo and do not have any problems 436 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,400 Speaker 10: with that owning it. But I wonder if someone will 437 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,879 Speaker 10: say something about that. Well, Donna, it's not a great look. 438 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,400 Speaker 9: I've been working on conflicts of interest for so long now, 439 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,159 Speaker 9: and to my mind, that is like belongs to the 440 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 9: conflict of interest Hall of Fame. 441 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 10: Conflict of interest Hall of Fame is perhaps right, but 442 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 10: the ultimate goal, I think, the holy grail, you could say, 443 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:23,240 Speaker 10: is to corrupt the dietitians themselves. Every year, the Academy 444 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 10: hosts an annual food conference, the FNCEE Food and Nutrition 445 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,679 Speaker 10: Conference and Expo, where big food shells out big money 446 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 10: for speaking appearances and booths on the convention floor for 447 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 10: an opportunity to showcase and convince nutritionists why their products 448 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 10: aren't so bad if you just know how to consume 449 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:42,680 Speaker 10: them in the right way. And perhaps the ultimate gift 450 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 10: the Academy can give to big food is a dream 451 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,119 Speaker 10: article like this one on the Food Network. This dietitian 452 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:52,920 Speaker 10: wants you to eat more processed food. Subheadline, process food 453 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 10: is not a bad thing. Here's why. 454 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 9: This is how the ult process food industry tunnels in 455 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 9: and get legitimacy for the standard American diet that is 456 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 9: causing us so much pain and separation. 457 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,399 Speaker 10: He's not wrong because regardless of whether you think the 458 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 10: Academy is or isn't able to stay independent and objective 459 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:18,600 Speaker 10: given their close financial ties to big food, Big Pharma, 460 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 10: and other agribusiness corporations, the fact is Americans are getting 461 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 10: sicker year after year, Obesity skyrocketing, type two diabetes on 462 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 10: the rise, cardiovascular disease. After a brief decline, it's on 463 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:37,920 Speaker 10: the rise again, all the while, definitely not coincidentally, healthcare 464 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 10: is quickly becoming America's largest industry. Mackenzian Company projects profits 465 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:46,119 Speaker 10: across the entire healthcare industry to skyrocket from five hundred 466 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 10: and fifty eight billion dollars a year in twenty twenty 467 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 10: one to almost seven hundred billion by twenty twenty five. 468 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 10: A lot of people think food and nutrition has a 469 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 10: big role to play if we are to reverse such trends. 470 00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,919 Speaker 10: So I ask Gary, what do nutrition think about the 471 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 10: Academy's long history of financial ties to big food companies. 472 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 9: There are many nutritionists who have very uneasy, bad feeling 473 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,680 Speaker 9: about it, and who are truly troubled by the lack 474 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 9: of integrity of their standard bearer organization, and who wrestle 475 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:26,720 Speaker 9: in a very sincere way with the corruption of their profession. 476 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,199 Speaker 10: And maybe even more troubling is how the Academy has 477 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:34,679 Speaker 10: chosen to rule with an iron fist to combat such dissent. 478 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 10: In twenty thirteen, Carol Bartolato, a registered dietitian in California, 479 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 10: was removed from an Academy of Nutrition and Dietechs panel 480 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 10: for questioning the Academy's decision to hire a professor with 481 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 10: ties to Monsanto to write its position paper on genetically 482 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:53,120 Speaker 10: engineered foods. Get this before the work group even finished 483 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 10: its review of the scientific materials. She said, quote, why 484 00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:59,680 Speaker 10: have a work group if its conclusions are not going 485 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,920 Speaker 10: to be basis for the position paper, Yeah, that's sketchy. 486 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:07,320 Speaker 10: Despite the murkiness of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics affiliations, 487 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 10: for the sake of journalistic integrity, I must let you 488 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 10: know that the Academy has labeled recent allegations as quote 489 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 10: inaccurate and misleading, staunchly defending their corporate guidelines, which they 490 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:22,439 Speaker 10: claim prohibit external influence. Nevertheless, today's revelation should underline a 491 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:25,399 Speaker 10: crucial lesson for us, and that we must continue to 492 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:29,440 Speaker 10: advocate for transparency, support the work of organizations that work 493 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:33,359 Speaker 10: tirelessly to obtain documents previously hidden from the public, to 494 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 10: arm ourselves with knowledge, and to seek the unvarnished truth 495 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 10: because our health literally depends on it. That's all for 496 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,679 Speaker 10: me this time. What are your thoughts? Do you have 497 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 10: any personal experiences with nutritionness or dietitians you'd like to share, 498 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,920 Speaker 10: Please let us know in the comments section below. Also, 499 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 10: if you enjoy these beyond the headline segments, I would 500 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 10: highly encourage you to check out and subscribe to my 501 00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,159 Speaker 10: YouTube channel fifty one forty nine with James Lee. The 502 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 10: link will be in the description below. I really appreciate that, 503 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,959 Speaker 10: and as always, keep on tuning into Breaking Points, and 504 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 10: thank you for your time today. 505 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 12: I'm Matt Stoler, author of monopoly focused newsletter Big and 506 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,879 Speaker 12: an anti trust policy analyst. I have a great segment 507 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,439 Speaker 12: for you today on this Big Breakdown. It's actually some 508 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 12: good news. It's about how the government listens to its citizens, 509 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 12: and in particular to you Breaking Point subscribers, because about 510 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 12: a year and a half ago, roughly one thousand of 511 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,600 Speaker 12: you sent comments into the government on what seems like 512 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:35,920 Speaker 12: a really obscure question, which was about something very important, 513 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,680 Speaker 12: how to use antitrust law against big companies. 514 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 6: And it really mattered. And I'm going to tell you why. 515 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 12: But I'm also going to tell you another way, for 516 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 12: those of you who submitted comments or who want to 517 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,920 Speaker 12: submit comments, that you can actually help the government crack 518 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 12: down on big business if that's of. 519 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 6: Interest to you. Okay. 520 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,520 Speaker 12: So it's a pretty grim moment in politics, but one 521 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 12: of the positive aspects of the Biden administration has actually 522 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,800 Speaker 12: been something called anti trust policy, which is the law 523 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:07,640 Speaker 12: we use mostly to govern big business. And you have 524 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,680 Speaker 12: two important officials, Jonathan Canter at the Anti Trust Division 525 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 12: and Lena Khan at the Federal Trade Commission. These are 526 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 12: the two agencies that police competition in our markets, and 527 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 12: they're trying to return America to the way we used 528 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 12: to manage corporate power prior to the nineteen eighties. Let's 529 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 12: just take a look picture of the two of them. Okay, 530 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:31,880 Speaker 12: So con and CANT have brought cases against a lot 531 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:35,399 Speaker 12: of powerful firms, and indeed, there is a major anti 532 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 12: trust trial against Google Search that's going to start in September. 533 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 12: I'm going to do a segment on that in the 534 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 12: next couple of weeks, and that is actually the first 535 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:49,880 Speaker 12: big trial against a monopoly since Microsoft twenty five years ago. Now, 536 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 12: last April, I told you about something else that Con 537 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:57,119 Speaker 12: and Canter are doing, which is it seems technocratic, but 538 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 12: it's not. It's very important. It's called rewriting merger guidelines. 539 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 6: Now. 540 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 12: Merger guidelines are little known in interpretive documents which the 541 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 12: government uses to explain how they will enforce anti trust 542 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:13,600 Speaker 12: laws against big business. Now, in that video, which is 543 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 12: you can look at it in the description if you want, 544 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:19,400 Speaker 12: I explained why mergers of big companies are often really bad, 545 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 12: but also why they are so pervasive. In today's economy, 546 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 12: and there's a policy reason behind it. I also said 547 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:30,879 Speaker 12: that you can help because the anti trust agencies opened 548 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,640 Speaker 12: what's called a comment docket. It is basically a website 549 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,080 Speaker 12: where you can tell your stories, where you can tell 550 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 12: the government what you think. And about a thousand of 551 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 12: you did just that. Well, guess what the new draft 552 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 12: merger guidelines are out. And one of the ways that 553 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 12: you can tell that they matter is that away from 554 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 12: the political news, when you look at Wall Street, well 555 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 12: they are big mad. 556 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 6: Okay. 557 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 12: So here's Larry Summers, who's probably the most important economic 558 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 12: policy makers of the last thirty or forty years, and 559 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 12: he's responsible for many things including offshoring of jobs, the 560 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 12: rise of monopolies, financial deregulation, and massive, massive inequality. Let's 561 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:12,239 Speaker 12: listen to what he has to say about these new 562 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 12: merger guidelines. 563 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 10: What is your perception of where the administration is going 564 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 10: on mergers and acquisitions? 565 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 7: I guess I would say these things. I do not 566 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 7: think it is remotely plausible to ascribe lower real wages 567 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 7: or more men not working to anything about monopoly power. 568 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 7: I think that traditional thinking has had it about right 569 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 7: on what sometimes seems almost like a war on business, 570 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 7: and so based on what's been put out for public 571 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 7: comment and a very rapid study I've been able to 572 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:58,480 Speaker 7: do so far, I have to say I'm a bit disappointed. 573 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 12: Summers is a very unpleasant man, and you know, he's 574 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 12: the guy who's been saying we need more unemployment to 575 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 12: tame inflation, we need to you know, offshore more jobs, 576 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 12: and so on and so forth. He's also really widely 577 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 12: beloved and respected on Wall Street. He's a Democrat, you know. 578 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:19,560 Speaker 12: But don't worry. You know, there's a lot of dissatisfaction 579 00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:22,280 Speaker 12: among the Wall Street friendly Republicans. So let's take a 580 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:26,720 Speaker 12: look at the Republicans in the House and what they've done. 581 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 12: So this is a proposed statute. They want to take 582 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 12: away all money from the anti trust enforcers for actually 583 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 12: modifying merger guidelines. Okay, so that's the thing, this thing 584 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,080 Speaker 12: that everybody with power and money hates. That's the thing 585 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 12: that you helped construct. It's the thing that you commented on. 586 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:50,000 Speaker 12: And if they hate it so much, that's probably a 587 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 12: pretty good indication that it's good. That it reduces persistent 588 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,680 Speaker 12: high profit margins among big business, which are really an 589 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,960 Speaker 12: indication of bad health. Health in the economy. And it's 590 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 12: good in part because they listened to you and because 591 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,960 Speaker 12: you participated, and they really did listen to you. So 592 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 12: here's a woman you probably don't know but who's very important. 593 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,239 Speaker 12: Her name is Doha Mecki, and she's number two at 594 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 12: the Anti Trust Division, and she's explaining how the government 595 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 12: staff read every single one of your comments and there 596 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 12: were five thousand in total, and how that affected their 597 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,400 Speaker 12: understanding of anti trust laws. So let's take a listen 598 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:27,320 Speaker 12: to what she has to say. 599 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 13: We are lucid to traditional anti trust harms. Right, my 600 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 13: prices went up, there are fewer jobs, et cetera. But 601 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:41,960 Speaker 13: I was moved by accounts from emergency room physicians, for example, 602 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 13: who talked about, you know, after a merger of their 603 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 13: provider group or an acquisition by hospital, that they were 604 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:56,239 Speaker 13: actually not able to provide as good care under you know, 605 00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 13: the regulations or rules or whatever that were promoted by 606 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:05,520 Speaker 13: the acquiring company. There were accounts of maternity ward nurses 607 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 13: that said, you know, after a merger, you know, they 608 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 13: reduced the number of nurses on a hospital floor and 609 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 13: they were rounding less frequently, and they found that very 610 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 13: stressful because they felt like they weren't able to deliver care. 611 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:25,040 Speaker 13: There were many more examples of agriculture, media, and other 612 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 13: really important industries in the economy. But hearing real accounts 613 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:35,280 Speaker 13: of how regular people, many of whom are outside the Beltway, 614 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 13: experience life post merger, was very interesting. 615 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,040 Speaker 12: Remember what Larry Summers said, We said, there's no evidence 616 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 12: that monopoly power reduces wages. There you have Doha Meck 617 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:49,440 Speaker 12: talking about all the comments that they got which showed 618 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 12: that that monopoly power and acquisitions do actually impact working conditions, 619 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,800 Speaker 12: which are actually a form of labor compensation. So there's 620 00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:00,960 Speaker 12: an interesting disconnect between Wall Street, which I think is 621 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 12: fairly represented by Larry Summers, and the rest of America, 622 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:07,800 Speaker 12: who I think is pretty fairly represented by what Dohamechi said. 623 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 12: So that's why these guidelines create such anger. They reflect 624 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 12: how normal people understand monopoly power, corporate power, and anti 625 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:21,080 Speaker 12: trust versus how Wall Street has controlled it for forty years. 626 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,960 Speaker 12: And in fact, these new guidelines are an attempt to 627 00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:28,160 Speaker 12: return anti trust back to the rule of law in 628 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 12: a way, from recent decades of corporate domination. So now 629 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:34,920 Speaker 12: I've said a lot, but let me just do a 630 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,080 Speaker 12: quick recap of the last video where I described the 631 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,520 Speaker 12: historical context. So here's what happened over the last forty 632 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:45,480 Speaker 12: years in corporate America. In nineteen eighty Ronald Reagan wanted 633 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 12: to end anti trust enforcement. It was part of the 634 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,400 Speaker 12: very different context. He's very favorable to big business. They 635 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 12: thought anti trust didn't make sense. But the thing is, 636 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 12: Reagan and his people knew that Congress wouldn't go along 637 00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:01,400 Speaker 12: because broadly speaking, the public likes anti trust enforcement. 638 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:02,840 Speaker 6: People don't like monopolies. 639 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:06,040 Speaker 12: So the Reagan administration pursued a strategy and evidence of 640 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:10,520 Speaker 12: this came from documents in the Reagan Library, documents that 641 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 12: were recently unearthed. And the strategy was not to change 642 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,160 Speaker 12: the law through Congress, but to simply not enforce anti 643 00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:20,600 Speaker 12: trust laws. So essentially it's an administrative reright of the law. Now, 644 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:24,080 Speaker 12: the main recommendation was that Reagan appoint anti trust leaders 645 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:29,319 Speaker 12: who would change enforcement priorities by issuing different merger guidelines, 646 00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,320 Speaker 12: which was the way that the Department of Justice instructed 647 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:35,920 Speaker 12: courts and business leaders as to what was and wasn't legal. 648 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:40,280 Speaker 12: In nineteen eighty two, Bill Baxter, who was Reagan's Anti 649 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:43,239 Speaker 12: Trust Division chief, he's had Jonathan Canter's position. 650 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:43,920 Speaker 6: And he did so. 651 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 12: The impact of this new non enforcement mandate had large 652 00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:50,839 Speaker 12: and immediate effects on our society. So take a look 653 00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,480 Speaker 12: at this chart. So the red arrow is the moment 654 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 12: that the Reagan administration issued their merger guideline rewrite. Merger 655 00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,760 Speaker 12: Mania started instantly in everything from retail to defense to banking, 656 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 12: and indeed, mergers and acquisitions became so important they came 657 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:05,880 Speaker 12: into the culture in a big way. They were the 658 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:08,760 Speaker 12: basis of the popular nineteen eighty seven movie Wall Street, 659 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:12,880 Speaker 12: which coined the memorable term greed is good that characterized 660 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 12: the nineteen eighties. 661 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,280 Speaker 6: But it wasn't just Reagan who did this. Bill Clinton, 662 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:17,880 Speaker 6: George W. 663 00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:21,800 Speaker 12: Bush, Barack Obama, even Donald Trump all continued the framework 664 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 12: that Baxter laid out, and over the next forty years 665 00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:27,439 Speaker 12: there were successive merger waves to consolidate nearly every nook 666 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:29,400 Speaker 12: and cranny of American commerce. 667 00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:30,680 Speaker 6: I should say this about Trump. 668 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,640 Speaker 12: He did bring the Google antitrust case and that is 669 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:35,360 Speaker 12: going to trial in September, which is why I was 670 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:37,839 Speaker 12: a little bit hesitant, because his administration is a little 671 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:41,520 Speaker 12: bit more mixed. But the thing is that in terms 672 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:43,640 Speaker 12: of this forty to forty five year track record. It 673 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:45,719 Speaker 12: is hard to find a part of America that has 674 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:50,840 Speaker 12: remained unaffected. With much higher prices on vital medicines, but 675 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,959 Speaker 12: also medicines that are too low priced such that they're 676 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,960 Speaker 12: in shortage. You see reduced wages, and you see you know. 677 00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:01,560 Speaker 12: Just to give you a recent and sense, massively irritated 678 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:05,719 Speaker 12: Taylor Swift fans, the consolidation of the ticketing industry and 679 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:10,719 Speaker 12: the live performance industry under Live Nation Ticketmaster. Now, over 680 00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:13,000 Speaker 12: the course of the past ten years, a lot of 681 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:16,520 Speaker 12: people have started to notice, a reason being the financial 682 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:21,600 Speaker 12: crisis and other shocks to our system. Today, the Biden 683 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:26,319 Speaker 12: administration is actually starting to enforce antitrust laws again, but 684 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,440 Speaker 12: a few high profile court losses, such as a recent 685 00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:32,840 Speaker 12: court challenge to the Microsoft Activision merger and one against 686 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,440 Speaker 12: United Health Group's acquisition of Change Healthcare, show that the 687 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:38,960 Speaker 12: old way of thinking, the way that Baxter imported in 688 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:42,400 Speaker 12: the nineteen eighties, is still very powerful among judges, and 689 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,560 Speaker 12: that brings us back to the merger guidelines. These guidelines 690 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:49,680 Speaker 12: help instruct the courts how to interpret a complicated area 691 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:52,759 Speaker 12: of law. They're not binding precedent, but they are a 692 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:57,080 Speaker 12: sort of influence interpretation. And one of the problems with 693 00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,720 Speaker 12: antitrust law is that successive versions of the Merger Guidelines 694 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:04,880 Speaker 12: since nineteen eighty two have told judges that most mergers 695 00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:08,200 Speaker 12: are good, most mergers of big companies. I'm talking about, 696 00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:10,200 Speaker 12: not the little ones that don't really matter or are 697 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:13,560 Speaker 12: actually helpful. I'm talking about most mergers of big companies 698 00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:13,960 Speaker 12: are good. 699 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:16,160 Speaker 6: And I'm not kidding or exaggerating. 700 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:18,520 Speaker 12: So here's a sentence from the most recent version of 701 00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:22,640 Speaker 12: these guidelines, written in twenty ten. It says a primary 702 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:25,840 Speaker 12: benefit of mergers to the economy is their potential to 703 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:30,040 Speaker 12: generate significant efficiencies and thus enhance the merged firms ability 704 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,960 Speaker 12: and incentive to compete, which may result in lower prices, 705 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:37,680 Speaker 12: improve quality, and enhanced service or new products. That's like 706 00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:41,880 Speaker 12: Live Nation Ticketmasters. Did that improve anything? I don't think so. 707 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,760 Speaker 12: But those guidelines said that mergers like that do actually 708 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 12: help things. So keep in mind the twenty ten guidelines, 709 00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,399 Speaker 12: which is the most recent edition. They weren't some right 710 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:54,560 Speaker 12: wing conspiracy. They were written by Obama enforcers, and this 711 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:58,640 Speaker 12: kind of guidance matters, right. So Trump, as I said earlier, 712 00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:00,680 Speaker 12: was mixed, and he did bring it challenge to the 713 00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,200 Speaker 12: AT and T time Warner merger, which was very important 714 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:06,960 Speaker 12: for a variety of reasons. But in twenty eighteen, Judge 715 00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:10,440 Speaker 12: Richard Leon ruled in favor of the merger, ruled against 716 00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:13,759 Speaker 12: the Anti Trust Division, and he cited the guidelines in 717 00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:18,920 Speaker 12: doing so. Okay, so what are these new guidelines. They're 718 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:21,960 Speaker 12: in draft form, they're not finalized. What do they say, Well, 719 00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:26,360 Speaker 12: they present thirteen principles. Each of one is tethered to 720 00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:31,560 Speaker 12: specific legal precedent on how mergers may violate the law. Now, 721 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:35,439 Speaker 12: some principles are well understood, like the idea that when 722 00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,120 Speaker 12: you have two big companies that compete against each other, 723 00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:40,239 Speaker 12: that each own a big part of the market, and 724 00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:45,920 Speaker 12: they merge and increase what's called corporate concentration, that's probably illegal. Okay, 725 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:47,640 Speaker 12: we've always known that, that's always. 726 00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:48,759 Speaker 6: Been part of merger law. 727 00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:53,000 Speaker 12: But other principles haven't been in force since the nineteen eighties. 728 00:38:53,520 --> 00:39:00,200 Speaker 12: So they extend arguments of concentration to labor markets and 729 00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:02,880 Speaker 12: how workers are infected by mergers. There have been some 730 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:07,560 Speaker 12: good cases on that recently, but the guidelines say, look, 731 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:09,759 Speaker 12: the judges have to look at labor markets, whether you 732 00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:12,920 Speaker 12: have different rivals that you can work for or not 733 00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:16,800 Speaker 12: take that into account, whether to see whether a merger 734 00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:19,160 Speaker 12: or substantially lessons competition or not. 735 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:21,520 Speaker 6: Still other principles. 736 00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,760 Speaker 12: In these new merger guidelines, our attempts to update guidance 737 00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:27,200 Speaker 12: for how the economy has changed with the rise of 738 00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:32,840 Speaker 12: institutions like tech platforms and private equity firms. So, for instance, 739 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:36,520 Speaker 12: one new principle is that the anti trust agencies should 740 00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:39,600 Speaker 12: look not just at one merger, at a whole series 741 00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:43,680 Speaker 12: of mergers. The so called serial acquisition problem such roll 742 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,560 Speaker 12: ups where a firm or private equity fund buys a 743 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:50,040 Speaker 12: whole slew of small companies in one industry India being 744 00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:53,200 Speaker 12: to consolidate. It's common today in the economy, from dental 745 00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:58,399 Speaker 12: clinics to portable toilets to the income verification services of Equifax. 746 00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:01,680 Speaker 12: The guidelines indicate that the whole suite of mergers are 747 00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:05,560 Speaker 12: fair gain, not just one specific merger. Now, now this 748 00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:07,160 Speaker 12: is I said, this is kind of a new principle. 749 00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:09,440 Speaker 12: It's not really new. It was actually in the original 750 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,840 Speaker 12: updates to the Clayton Act that Congress wrote in nineteen fifty. 751 00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:16,640 Speaker 12: It's just that it hasn't really been put into practice 752 00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:19,440 Speaker 12: for a long time, and so these anti trust enforcers 753 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:21,080 Speaker 12: are saying, no, we're going to actually enforce the law 754 00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,840 Speaker 12: as it was written. Now you can read the whole 755 00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:27,080 Speaker 12: document if you want, including all thirteen principles. I've put 756 00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:31,120 Speaker 12: it into the description. It's relatively easy to read, but 757 00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:36,279 Speaker 12: it is a policy document. Okay, here's where you come 758 00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:39,759 Speaker 12: in if you want to continue helping. These new guidelines 759 00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:42,480 Speaker 12: are in draft form and they will be finalized soon, 760 00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:44,399 Speaker 12: at which point they'll start to be used in court 761 00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:48,839 Speaker 12: cases and in a whole variety of different ways. Now, 762 00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:51,759 Speaker 12: the anti trust enforcers, they came out, they asked for 763 00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:55,239 Speaker 12: information about your experience with mergers. You gave it to them. 764 00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,160 Speaker 12: Now they have these draft guidelines based in part on 765 00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:02,840 Speaker 12: that feedback guidelines. They want to get more feedback before 766 00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:05,480 Speaker 12: finalizing them. So the government has set up a site 767 00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:09,480 Speaker 12: on regulations dot gov where you can tell them about 768 00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:13,319 Speaker 12: your experience with mergers or offer thoughts on anti trust 769 00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:17,839 Speaker 12: law mergers, big business, or unfair methods of competition. I'll 770 00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:20,560 Speaker 12: put a link in the description. Now the site looks 771 00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:23,200 Speaker 12: like this. I've circled the comment piece in red, so 772 00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:25,279 Speaker 12: if you click on the button, you. 773 00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:26,640 Speaker 6: Can just add your thoughts now. 774 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:31,160 Speaker 12: My organization has also added created a website which is 775 00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:34,799 Speaker 12: Share your mergerstory dot org, which you can go to. 776 00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:38,200 Speaker 12: I've put that in the description and that makes it 777 00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:42,040 Speaker 12: a little bit easier to participate. But you can do 778 00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:44,080 Speaker 12: it either on the government site or you can do 779 00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:49,080 Speaker 12: it on our site. But the point is is one 780 00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:52,720 Speaker 12: of the few bright spots right now in our policy regime. 781 00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:54,919 Speaker 12: And it's not a small bright spot. It's a big deal. 782 00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:57,000 Speaker 12: You don't see it on the political news, but it's 783 00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,000 Speaker 12: a big deal. It's kind of like the tectonic plates 784 00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:03,640 Speaker 12: of politics. That bright spot is antitrust. That bright spot 785 00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:06,680 Speaker 12: is how we deal with big business. And the reason, 786 00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:09,839 Speaker 12: and this is what's important, the reason our enforcers can 787 00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:12,640 Speaker 12: actually do anything at all here despite all of the 788 00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:15,760 Speaker 12: money coming at them, is actually because of you. Because 789 00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:20,360 Speaker 12: it's popular, because the public wants it. So your comments 790 00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:23,239 Speaker 12: really do matter, and that's why I encourage you to 791 00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:25,840 Speaker 12: actually see you know, whether you like mergers or don't, 792 00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:30,200 Speaker 12: give your feedback, tell the government what you think about 793 00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:33,520 Speaker 12: big business right now because they are listening. Thanks for 794 00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:36,160 Speaker 12: watching this big breakdown on the Breaking Points channel. I 795 00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:37,719 Speaker 12: wanted to give you some good news. I want to 796 00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:39,719 Speaker 12: let you know we do live in a democracy. You 797 00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:43,319 Speaker 12: can help, your voice does matter. Just want to let 798 00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:46,560 Speaker 12: you know how you can participate, just like the lobbyists do. 799 00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:48,920 Speaker 12: And guess what, there's a lot more of us than 800 00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:50,880 Speaker 12: there are of them. So if you'd like to know 801 00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:53,760 Speaker 12: more about big business and how our economy really works, 802 00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:56,240 Speaker 12: you can sign up below for my market power focused 803 00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:59,600 Speaker 12: newsletter Big in the description, thanks and have a good. 804 00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:05,560 Speaker 13: One, indiscrim and 805 00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:10,400 Speaker 11: In deep sy