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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's

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Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry's here too. And this is a good

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Speaker 2: old fashioned episode of Stuff you Should Know. It's got

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Speaker 2: history as geology has lost lands, it has abbreviations like KYA,

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Speaker 2: all sorts of great stuff in it.

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Speaker 1: Oh boy, my friend. If I know Josh Clark loves

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Speaker 1: something it is submerged or lost.

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Speaker 3: Lands, it really is.

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Speaker 2: I love it.

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Speaker 3: I know this kind of thing really really float your boat.

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Speaker 2: It does. It floats my submerged land. We're talking about

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Speaker 2: Dogger Land, by the way, everybody.

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Speaker 1: That's right, we should probably just say kind of what

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Speaker 1: it is first, right before we get into the details.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and we've talked about it here there. I could not,

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Speaker 2: for the life of me remember what episode, but it's

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Speaker 2: come up once or twice, but I think it bears

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Speaker 2: repeating for sure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a you know, a lost land, a submerged

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Speaker 1: land mass off the coast of Europe. It's in the

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Speaker 1: North Sea, probably anywhere from fifty to sixty to one

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Speaker 1: hundred feet down and it used to be a you know,

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Speaker 1: it used to be land. It used to connect they

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Speaker 1: pretty much firmly believe now connect the UK and Europe.

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Speaker 1: And not only that, but was a land where that

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Speaker 1: kind of flourished depending on when you're talking about with

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Speaker 1: plants and animals and even people.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they think that it's possible. So this was really

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Speaker 2: populated during the Mesolithic area or era and the area.

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Speaker 2: They think that this area during the Mesolithic era was

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Speaker 2: one of the most densely populated places in all of Europe.

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, did you ever see Taylor Swift

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Speaker 1: on her area's tour.

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Speaker 2: I didn't, but I can feel a Taylor Swift area

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Speaker 2: coming on.

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Speaker 1: Eventually she through the concert. She sort of walked the

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Speaker 1: audience through all of her different areas.

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Speaker 3: This is my knee, the left one, knees and toes,

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Speaker 3: knees and toes.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean it sounds kind of like, wait,

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Speaker 2: that's it. There's like a land mass that once connected

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Speaker 2: the UK and Europe.

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Speaker 3: That's enough.

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Speaker 2: Like you can see somebody making an absurd or obscene

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Speaker 2: hand motion talk thinking about that, right, but.

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Speaker 3: No, listen exactly what you're saying.

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Speaker 2: Stick with us, because this is it's fantastically interesting. Even

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Speaker 2: though we know very very little about it. The stuff

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Speaker 2: we do know is so tantalizing that it's like the

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Speaker 2: archaeologists who are studying this are just they want to

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Speaker 2: just say, like, so bad, there's so much stuff down there,

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Speaker 2: we just know it. But they're they're being deliberate and methodical,

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Speaker 2: so they're not letting themselves say that. But we can

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Speaker 2: say it for them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's called Doggerland and that's just cool. It

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Speaker 1: sounds like a movie title or something.

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Speaker 2: You know, it does starring Lily Tomlin, you know, the

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Speaker 2: younger one Alan, No.

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Speaker 3: Not that young von stup. No, why is her name

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Speaker 3: con Taylor?

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Speaker 2: Yes?

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Speaker 3: Oh really, she was.

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Speaker 2: In a movie called maybe dog Face or something like

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Speaker 2: that or.

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Speaker 3: Dog Oh yeah, dog Dogfight.

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Speaker 2: No, it doesn't matter. We should probably edit this out.

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Speaker 2: If we were a different podcast, we would edit this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Man, I came up with like four or five lilies.

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Speaker 2: You got to leave that in, Okay, true, true dah.

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Speaker 2: But I don't even remember how I got on the

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Speaker 2: Lily thing.

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Speaker 1: Well, I said it would be a good movie, and

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Speaker 1: you reckon that Lily Taylor would be a good Oh

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Speaker 1: star yet that movie?

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Speaker 2: Because you were talking about it's a cool name and

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Speaker 2: The name comes after the Dogger Bank, which is a

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Speaker 2: shallow fishing area, very productive fishing area in the North Sea.

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Speaker 2: And the Dogger Bank is named after a type of

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Speaker 2: Dutch cod fishing boats that were used for hundreds of

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Speaker 2: years in the area. So there you go, Doggerland.

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Speaker 3: That's right. I hope we got all that right.

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Speaker 1: But it's a pretty shallow sea as far as seas go,

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Speaker 1: about two hundred and twenty thousand square miles, and it

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Speaker 1: sits in between the UK and Europe, of course, and

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Speaker 1: because if there was a land bridge that connected those two,

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Speaker 1: that's where the North Sea would be. It has long

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Speaker 1: been a very crucial shipping route and trade route. And

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Speaker 1: as for this story, you know, it's pretty key that

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Speaker 1: in the nineteen fifties and then sixties gas and oil

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Speaker 1: reservoirs were found there and companies started licking their chops.

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Speaker 1: And they will come into play later, oil companies and

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Speaker 1: gas companies being as being actually in you know, finally

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Speaker 1: kind of key to helping out science, you know, and

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Speaker 1: scientists and their explorations.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, that will come in later. It's also there's

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Speaker 2: a lot of shipping that goes on apparently that's a

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Speaker 2: very ancient thing. People have been shipping things over the

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Speaker 2: North Sea for a very long time, and then now

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Speaker 2: it's become a really attractive site for renewable energy, as

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Speaker 2: we'll see. So the North Sea is very important and

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Speaker 2: it's been used for a very long time, but its

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Speaker 2: depths were just unknown, like people hadn't explored it. They

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Speaker 2: didn't have the means to really.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, even though it's fairly shallow, it's still deep for

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Speaker 1: back then.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred feet what are you going to do?

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Speaker 2: Hold your breath exactly. I mean the moment you get

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Speaker 2: down on the bottom of you if you come right

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Speaker 2: back up, it's terrible for exploration holding your breath this. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but there were some tantalizing clues that came up over

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Speaker 2: the years that did strongly suggest that there was something

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Speaker 2: down there that had once been above the sea's surface.

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Speaker 3: That's right. The first thing that happened late nineteenth century.

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Speaker 1: They started, you know, better fishing technology came along and

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Speaker 1: you could fish a little bit deeper. So they started

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Speaker 1: fishing a little bit deeper, which is great because you

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Speaker 1: can get you know, a lot more fish down there.

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Speaker 1: But it was kind of a pain because they started

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Speaker 1: dragging up what they called moor log, which is, you know, pete,

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Speaker 1: this kind of nasty clump together pete. And in that

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Speaker 1: pete sometimes they would find animal bones, not fishbones, but

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Speaker 1: like mammal bones, and I guess it was a nineteenth

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Speaker 1: century so it just sort of hassled their fishing progress.

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Speaker 1: So they would just usually toss them overboard. Occasionally, if

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Speaker 1: they had some like really well preserved you know, skull

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Speaker 1: or deer femur or something like that, they might keep it.

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Speaker 1: But that's when the first sort of whisperings of like

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Speaker 1: something used to be down there started happening.

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Speaker 2: Exactly and then in usual fashion, it's worth mentioning H. G. Wells.

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Speaker 2: It was probably one of the best speculators in the

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Speaker 2: history of speculative fiction.

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Speaker 3: This is pretty cool.

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Speaker 2: He heard about some of those fines and he wrote

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Speaker 2: a story called the Story of the Stone Age, which

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Speaker 2: is basically like, there's a continent under the North Sea

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Speaker 2: between the UK and Europe.

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Speaker 3: Don't forget right.

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Speaker 2: This guy is the guy who in the late nineteenth

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Speaker 2: century wrote stories about humans sending rockets up into space. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and placed the launches at Cape Canaverl. Like, that's how

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Speaker 2: smart this guy was. As far as seeing in the

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Speaker 2: future goes, I love it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. He's pretty great writer too.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Interesting, dude, man, we should do one on HG. Wells.

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Speaker 1: He deserves his own show, I think. Okay, all right,

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Speaker 1: all right, moving on, as we crawl through Noah's Woods. Now,

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Speaker 1: before the nineteenth century and those bones and that morlog

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Speaker 1: Pete started coming up, there were whispers then, I said,

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Speaker 1: the first whispers came in the late nineteenth century. It's

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Speaker 1: not exactly true because during low tide, way back when

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Speaker 1: the water levels would drop, and some of these folks

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Speaker 1: living in the UK at the time would see these

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Speaker 1: tree stumps and this is like medieval times, and they

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Speaker 1: called it Noah's Woods, with the idea that this was,

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Speaker 1: you know, possibly the area where Noah from the Bible

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Speaker 1: lived before God decided to flood the earth because he

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Speaker 1: was grumpy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And here was plane right in your face evidence

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Speaker 2: of it. So that had stuck around since the medieval age,

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Speaker 2: and apparently, according to UK or early British low this

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Speaker 2: is where Robinson Caruso, who was the model for Robin Hood,

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Speaker 2: emerged from the water and gave Arthur the sword and

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Speaker 2: the stone.

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Speaker 3: That's right, So Noah's Woods was.

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Speaker 2: Just kind of like a local thing. I'm sure the

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Speaker 2: churchy types really talked about it more than anybody else,

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Speaker 2: but scientists hadn't paid much attention to it until a

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Speaker 2: very forward thinking scientist and his wife, Clement and Eleanor Reid,

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Speaker 2: came forward and they started looking into it, and they

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Speaker 2: kind of were the first people to put together Noah's Woods,

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Speaker 2: the fact that there are tree stumps, weirdly ancient ones

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Speaker 2: in the sea. People are pulling up animal bones for

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Speaker 2: terrestrial animals.

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Speaker 3: Pulling up pretty obvious what's happening.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they're like, there is something submerge that used to

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Speaker 2: be above the water, and we think it's a land

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Speaker 2: bridge that connected the UK and Europe.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they and I noticed there were a couple of scientists,

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Speaker 1: married couples that worked on this along the area.

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Speaker 2: It's kind this is a golden age for that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen thirteen they published Submerged Forests, which was the

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Speaker 1: very first study on those woods, and yeah, that's when

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Speaker 1: they really kind of put it out there and it

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Speaker 1: was you know, it was the kind of thing where

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Speaker 1: they didn't have any hard evidence other than these peat samples.

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Speaker 1: But when they started finding like willow leaves and hazel

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Speaker 1: and birch and fern. They were like, hey, not only

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Speaker 1: do I think there was something down there, but it

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Speaker 1: seems to have existed at least partially at a time.

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Speaker 1: That was like maybe kind of nice. Yeah, they like, temperature.

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Speaker 2: Wise, sounds pretty nice. Actually, I'd like to live in

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Speaker 2: dogger Land, but it wasn't called Doggerland yet, as we'll see.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 2: So the Reeds had this pretty great theory. Apparently. I

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Speaker 2: read that they concluded that the only possible explanation for

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Speaker 2: this was that sea level rise had flooded and sunk

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Speaker 2: in this land. So they were really red on the money.

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Speaker 2: But this is a very obscure theory. People weren't paying

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Speaker 2: much attention to it, even in academic circles. It was

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Speaker 2: pretty obscure. But then there was a discovery in nineteen

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Speaker 2: thirty one that really grabbed the archaeologists in the area

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Speaker 2: by the throat, shook them to their tongues turned blue

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Speaker 2: and hung out of their mouths, and it said, look

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Speaker 2: at this, this is important.

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 1: Did you say nineteen thirty one, because that's when it

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Speaker 1: was That's when a trawler called the Kalinda was fishing

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Speaker 1: off the coast of Norfolk came along and again a

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Speaker 1: big old chunk of morlog was hauled in in the

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Speaker 1: net and they were digging through that. And this guy's

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Speaker 1: got a great name. The skipper of the Clinda's name

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Speaker 1: was Pilgrim Lockwood.

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Speaker 2: So good. I would say that's a hotel check in name,

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Speaker 2: but it's just a little too eye catching.

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Speaker 3: That's too suspicious.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it is pretty suspicious.

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Speaker 3: Actually, yeah, hi, Pilgrim Lockwood checking in. Yeah, okay, buddy,

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Speaker 3: what's your real name? And who do you think you are?

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Speaker 1: So Pilgrim Lockwood is busting up this peete with his shovel,

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Speaker 1: just like out of a movie. Hits something hard, reaches

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Speaker 1: in and finds and this is the kind of discovery

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Speaker 1: that all of a sudden, like you said, everyone's going

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Speaker 1: to be like, okay, there's really something happening here. Because

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Speaker 1: it was an eight and a half inch long harpoon head,

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Speaker 1: a harpoon point carved with hands out of an antler.

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Speaker 1: But here's the At first they were like, okay, I

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Speaker 1: mean this is kind of cool, and they even offered

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Speaker 1: it to the British Museum, but they said, nah, we've

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Speaker 1: got some harpoons.

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Speaker 3: We're all set. We got a couple of them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And the idea was that everyone thought like, hey,

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Speaker 1: this is probably just was lost over the side of

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Speaker 1: a boat or something.

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Speaker 3: What's the big deal.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they're like pretty cool. I mean, like, don't throw

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Speaker 2: it back on it. Yeah, because it was very clearly

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Speaker 2: fashioned by humans. I think in addition to just being

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Speaker 2: smoothed out to be fashioned into a harpoon, I think

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Speaker 2: it was decorated as well, so there's no arguing that

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Speaker 2: it was a human artifact. It had been found in

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Speaker 2: a moorlog so a chunk of pete, and then somebody

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Speaker 2: along the way, another married couple, Harry and Margaret Godwin, said,

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Speaker 2: let us see that pete. We have a little hypothesis

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Speaker 2: we want to test. And they looked at that pete

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Speaker 2: and they said, everybody, get this. That pete was formed

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Speaker 2: in a fresh water environment, meaning that it could only

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Speaker 2: have been formed above the sea's surface on land in

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Speaker 2: a wetland, but on land, and the harpoon being in

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Speaker 2: there means that a human was on land above the

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Speaker 2: sea's surface when they were using it, and it they

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Speaker 2: lost it in the peat.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I picture Margaret Godwin just storming in

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Speaker 1: the room and saying that didn't fall off of any boat.

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Speaker 2: And then even better, the British Museum gets in touch

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Speaker 2: with Pilgrim Lockwood after this and he's like, well, well,

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Speaker 2: well look who's come crawling back.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that would have been pretty great actually. Yeah. So

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Speaker 1: they used a pollen analysis to figure this out, and

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Speaker 1: later on they were able to date this thing in

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Speaker 1: this harpoon head they found was about fourteen thousand years

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Speaker 1: old neat, which would place it kind of squarely in

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Speaker 1: the Mesolithic.

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Speaker 2: Era, well about toward the beginning of it, I think.

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Speaker 3: Because this was this is in the area.

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Speaker 2: It's a sweee, it's a squishy one. And the other

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Speaker 2: thing that's so exciting about Doggerland and finding stuff out

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Speaker 2: about it is we have very little information about Mesolithic

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Speaker 2: people of this area of the time.

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Speaker 3: Okay, okay, everybody.

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Speaker 2: In addition to all that chuck, there were some more

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Speaker 2: things that came up during the twentieth century that were

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Speaker 2: like this, this is there's something really interesting down there.

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Speaker 2: They were finding bits of textile. Yeah, they found a

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Speaker 2: Neanderthal skull fragment that they managed to It was between

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Speaker 2: seventy thousand and forty thousand years old. We'll talk about

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Speaker 2: it a little later, but there's a facial reconstruction, you

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Speaker 2: know they love to do like the three d oh. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: they have the guy smiling, just a huge, big, sweet

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Speaker 2: goofy smile. And I thought that was a nice touch.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's always nice. That's like when they recreated what

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Speaker 1: they thought Jesus would really look like, and he looked

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Speaker 1: like he was on the Simpsons or something.

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Speaker 2: Right, or he's doing the eyewink and the double guns.

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Speaker 2: I've seen that before too.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that's classic.

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Speaker 1: But despite all the fines, kind of throughout the twentieth century,

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Speaker 1: they still the scientific community still were like, okay, so

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Speaker 1: there were people there, but like this was just they

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Speaker 1: were just traveling along the road like nobody lived there.

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Speaker 2: They were rambling on.

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Speaker 3: They were rambling on through the area and the era.

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Speaker 3: And maybe we.

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Speaker 1: Should take a break. Yeah, all right, we'll be right

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Speaker 1: back with more on dogger Land. All right, So you

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Speaker 1: mentioned before the break at some point that Doggerland was

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Speaker 1: not named Doggerland. At this point, it would be I

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Speaker 1: think nineteen ninety eight before that name would finally be coined.

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Speaker 1: And again, this was still like just sort of the

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Speaker 1: scientific community that was pretty excited. Like even the broader

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Speaker 1: archaeological community was still not super pumped on this area yet.

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Speaker 3: They were studying it in the seventies.

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Speaker 1: But in the nineteen ninety eight a archaeologist name Brionny

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Speaker 1: Coles put out a paper called Doggerland colon a speculative

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Speaker 1: survey wherein And this is what made the scientific community

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Speaker 1: kind of say, like, ooh, what's she talking about. She

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Speaker 1: named it Doggerland after that sand bank, the Dogger Bank,

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Speaker 1: like you were talking about.

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Speaker 3: And she's the first one that.

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Speaker 1: Said, you know what, everyone, I think people like lived here,

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Speaker 1: and I think it was kind of pretty awesome.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this was in a land bridge. This is essentially

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Speaker 2: like it was an extension of the European continent and

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Speaker 2: a lot of people lived there and a lot of

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Speaker 2: stuff happened there.

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Speaker 3: And maybe she busted into the room and said that

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Speaker 3: was no land bridge.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So yeah, and there's this this collection of archaeologists

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Speaker 2: and scholars and it's getting increasingly elbow to elbow in

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Speaker 2: there and hot because there's no ac for some reason

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Speaker 2: in this room. Okay, and it's July, and there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of rotting fish in the in the room too

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Speaker 2: for some reason.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a weird edition. Everyone wondered about this fish.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And then somebody is eating leftovers of Vietnamese food

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Speaker 2: and that's loaded with shrimp paste.

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Speaker 3: Oh man, that shrimp paste.

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Speaker 2: And then there's one guy who's got leather patches on

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Speaker 2: his elbows and it's chafing the people on either side

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Speaker 2: of him. Oh God, be wearing short sleeves.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Neil always wears that thing.

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Speaker 2: So it's really difficult to get across how groundbreaking Briany

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Speaker 2: Cole's study was because she was working with really minimal information.

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Speaker 2: I saw that she went to the extent of like

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Speaker 2: collecting anecdotes from old fishermen who had brought up stuff

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Speaker 2: where they were trawling, like, and she took all this

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Speaker 2: and put it together, and not only like just wrote

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Speaker 2: a book like hey, get this, this is what's really

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Speaker 2: down there. She created maps of what Doggerland would have

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Speaker 2: looked like, not just once, but throughout different areas of

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Speaker 2: the time period that it was above water. So what

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Speaker 2: she did was an amazing triumph of intellect. Like it's

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Speaker 2: really tough to get across, Like, how big a deal

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Speaker 2: what she did was, and that's why people started to

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Speaker 2: get into Doggerlank because it was so convincing too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, you know, these these different little pictures

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Speaker 1: of different points in time. She said, Hey, I think

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Speaker 1: during the Paleolithic it might have gone all the way

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Speaker 1: from the Shetland Islands of Scotland to the Netherlands. Maybe

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Speaker 1: I think during the Holocene period that sea began to

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Speaker 1: rise and it became an island for a while. And

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Speaker 1: then finally she put it at fifty five hundred BC.

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Speaker 1: She figured it disappeared entirely. We've seen anywhere between five

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Speaker 1: thousand and seven thousand years ago is what people speculate.

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Speaker 1: But she even despite all that, was like, hey, this

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Speaker 1: is just I'm speculating here, everybody. Much later, a archaeologist

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Speaker 1: named Vincent Gaffney, along with a graduate student named Simon

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Speaker 1: Fitch Fitch or Finch, yeah, Fitch in two thousand and

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Speaker 1: one got on the scene, and after about eight years

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Speaker 1: of work, Gaffney said, you know what, she was reasonably

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Speaker 1: correct with all this stuff.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, nice, nice work.

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Speaker 2: And Gaffney was in a really good position to say

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Speaker 2: that because, like you said, he worked for years and

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Speaker 2: years and years on a project that he had come

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Speaker 2: up with with Simon Fitch. That was pretty clever. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: they were like, there are a lot of oil exploration

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Speaker 2: companies that have been like mapping the seafloor of the

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Speaker 2: North Sea for decades. Now, surely they have some amazing

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Speaker 2: data sets that they'll share with us. So they started

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Speaker 2: going around to oil companies and they finally found one, actually,

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Speaker 2: Petroleum Geo Services, and PGS said sure, we'll share, We'll

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Speaker 2: share a little bit of our undersea mapping with you,

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Speaker 2: and they gave them data for twenty three thousand square

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Speaker 2: kilometers of the North Sea and Vincent Gaffney feinted, but

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Speaker 2: luckily Simon Fitch was there to catch him. And that

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Speaker 2: was just that was what Simon Fitch is all about.

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Speaker 2: He's always there to catch you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And this was a situation where like to the

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Speaker 1: oil company, they were like, let's just give him a

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Speaker 1: little bit of our stuff and maybe they'll stop calling us.

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Speaker 1: Archaeology Magazine later called that the largest geophysical survey ever

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Speaker 1: made available to archaeologists.

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Speaker 2: Pretty cool.

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Speaker 3: So that's sort of the.

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Speaker 1: Difference between the sort of the oil company sector and

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Speaker 1: the scientific community and what they consider a little bit

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Speaker 1: of data.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and this was really groundbreaking for underwater archaeology because

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00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:59,200
Speaker 2: this was underwater archaeology this point was like dive down

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Speaker 2: in scuba gear, hope you find something there. There were

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00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:07,240
Speaker 2: some techniques where you can actually kind of excavate something

397
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Speaker 2: that's close to the surface. They have big vacuums that

398
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Speaker 2: they go through the silt that's taken up on board

399
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Speaker 2: the ship above. So it's not like it was just

400
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Speaker 2: completely just a concept at the time, but this really

401
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:24,159
Speaker 2: opened it up, this underwater mapping. But Simon Fitch and

402
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:28,639
Speaker 2: Vincent Gaffney found out these maps are the resolutions not

403
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Speaker 2: enough to be like there's a site, there's a site,

404
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:35,080
Speaker 2: a look that skeletons waving at us, let's go investigate there,

405
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Speaker 2: but it was enough to give it give them a

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Speaker 2: big picture of Doggerland and it was very clear that

407
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Speaker 2: this was not just some land bridge. This was Yeah.

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00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:47,199
Speaker 2: Again like it essentially a new country that they had

409
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Speaker 2: discovered under the sea, and they were able to match

410
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Speaker 2: that with existing finds. Yeah, like they're like, well, there's

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Speaker 2: this masted on skull found over here, and that makes

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Speaker 2: sense that it would be here, so let's kind of

413
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Speaker 2: look for humans over there. That's the kind of technique

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Speaker 2: that they managed to come up with.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's pretty cool.

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Speaker 1: And in the end they basically said, we think this

417
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Speaker 1: was not only were there people here, but they think

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Speaker 1: it was quote a significant Mesolithic population. And you know,

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Speaker 1: it was, like you said, it was pretty groundbreaking. I

420
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Speaker 1: thought we did an episode on underwater.

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Speaker 3: Archaeology, but I think.

422
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:27,959
Speaker 1: It might have just been that I wrote that article

423
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Speaker 1: for HowStuffWorks dot Com back in the day.

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Speaker 2: Oh we should do that then, Eh, No, okay.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if it was something I wrote. Not

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Speaker 3: sure it's.

427
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Speaker 2: Now are You've written tons of good stuff?

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Speaker 1: Oh you're sweet in twenty twenty two, well, I guess

429
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Speaker 1: we should mention. In twenty fourteen, Gaffney started working at

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Speaker 1: the University of Bradford and he founded the Submerged Landscape

431
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Speaker 1: Research Group there because he was dogged about Doggerland. And

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Speaker 1: then eventually in twenty twenty two, I guess.

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Speaker 3: Seven this years later.

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Speaker 1: Eight years later he joined the Unpathed Waters Research Project

435
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:10,080
Speaker 1: and that was a pretty cool initiative to make the

436
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Speaker 1: maritime history of the United Kingdom just kind of put

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Speaker 1: it out there for the public to digest.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so did you check this map out.

439
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:18,640
Speaker 3: Yeahs cool, Yeah.

440
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Speaker 2: It is. So the resolution is it's very like Pitfall.

441
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:26,719
Speaker 2: It's that level of bit resolution. The reason why is

442
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:29,880
Speaker 2: because if they took all the data that they actually

443
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:32,679
Speaker 2: have and rendered it in some sort of way that

444
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,640
Speaker 2: looked kind of whiz bang, it would crash your computer

445
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 2: the moment you started to try to load it, right. Yeah,

446
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,320
Speaker 2: So they had to because there's so much information that

447
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:44,000
Speaker 2: they have, they had to kind of narrow it back

448
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:47,919
Speaker 2: down into that kind of lower resolution version. But the

449
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,159
Speaker 2: stuff that it does is amazing. Like you can go

450
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 2: forward in time, backward in time, you can see the

451
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:56,719
Speaker 2: sea level rise and fall. You can actually control people

452
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,480
Speaker 2: by setting up a camp and then sitting back and

453
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:03,120
Speaker 2: watching what they do. And if there's like a caribou

454
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 2: or a moose or something nearby, they'll go kill it

455
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:07,880
Speaker 2: and then they process the carcass and that just does

456
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 2: all this different super cool stuff. It's definitely worth checking out.

457
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:15,359
Speaker 2: The Unpathed Waters, undreamed sure Lines.

458
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,400
Speaker 3: I think, wow, that's a very pretty name.

459
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 2: It is.

460
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 1: Uh should we take another break and talk about what

461
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 1: was there? Uh?

462
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:47,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's take let's take that break, all right, Chuck.

463
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,919
Speaker 2: So ever since Briany Coles came up with the dogger

464
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,679
Speaker 2: Land Speculative Maps, and Vincent Gaffney and Simon Finch and

465
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 2: all of the projects that they've worked on have have

466
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 2: you know, improved that information. In addition to all that,

467
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 2: more and more artifacts have been coming up, and apparently

468
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 2: there's a good working relationship between archaeologists who are studying

469
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 2: Doggerland and the trawling fishermen who bring in these fines.

470
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 2: Because before it was like, hey, check out this, this

471
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 2: uh what they call the moorlogs, this big chunk of

472
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,120
Speaker 2: and look there's a probably what a mastet on tooth,

473
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,119
Speaker 2: is that what that is? And they'd say, well, where'd

474
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 2: you get this? Andy'd be like, I don't know. I

475
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:32,119
Speaker 2: was over somewhere in the East North Sea and that

476
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,199
Speaker 2: didn't help very much. But now that they've kind of

477
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 2: formed this relationship with these fishermen, the fishermen are like, well,

478
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 2: here's the here's the GPS data for where we pulled

479
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 2: that up. And now that our underwater archaeologists can go

480
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 2: and look and say like, yep, this this seems like

481
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:50,639
Speaker 2: a good site to explore the problem is this the

482
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 2: the this area is so covered in sediment that even

483
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 2: for underwater archaeology. This is a challenging place to find

484
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 2: artifacts because there's so many rivers that flow into the

485
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,119
Speaker 2: North Sea, and unlike rivers that flow into the ocean,

486
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:09,679
Speaker 2: that sediment doesn't just disperse. It gets trapped between the

487
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,679
Speaker 2: UK and Europe, so it just settles and there's a

488
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 2: lot of sediment on top.

489
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, very messy scene, but nevertheless they have persevered and

490
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,880
Speaker 1: learned a lot about what was there through these spines.

491
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 1: In twenty seventeen, they were trying to you know, they're

492
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 1: trying to figure out what plants and animals were there,

493
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,679
Speaker 1: and they figured Hey, during the Younger Dryas, which we

494
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 1: all know now because we did that episode very recently

495
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 1: on the Younger Dryas.

496
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 2: That was a happy episode too.

497
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 1: They said Doggerland was a tundra. It was just ferns

498
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:46,399
Speaker 1: and shrubs and grasses. The climate started warming over the

499
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 1: course of thousands of years and during the preboreal period,

500
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,159
Speaker 1: the Holocene, there were birch and pine trees and all

501
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,679
Speaker 1: of a sudden it went from a tundra to a forest.

502
00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 1: And then later during the actual boreal period, birds got

503
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:04,400
Speaker 1: replaced by hazel and you got these freshwater lakes which

504
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 1: is you know, early on, remember when they found that

505
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,360
Speaker 1: they did the pollen analysis and they found the freshwater evidence,

506
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:14,479
Speaker 1: so that kind of explains that. And as far as

507
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 1: the animals living there, that is shifting along with the

508
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,480
Speaker 1: climate basically over the period of you know, tens and

509
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of years.

510
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:26,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, because those animals were adapted to the ice age,

511
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 2: and so when the younger drives was like ice age

512
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 2: is back. Those animals hadn't died out yet, so they're like, awesome,

513
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 2: we got another thirteen hundred years. But after the younger

514
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 2: dryas ended and the ice age finally came to an

515
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,199
Speaker 2: end about eleven six hundred years ago, the things like

516
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 2: the wooly rhinoceros and mammoths and reindeer had really nowhere

517
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,920
Speaker 2: to go and largely died off or else migrated northward

518
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 2: and they were replaced by while boar birds came along,

519
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 2: which is always a good thing. Otters showed up if yeah,

520
00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 2: if you've ever seen otter holding hands with another otter,

521
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 2: you're glad that those otters showed up. Beavers one of

522
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 2: our favorite animal episodes. It was just a huge change

523
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 2: in not only the vegetation but also the animal life,

524
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 2: and the animal life also included humans too.

525
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 3: Yeah.

526
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:16,399
Speaker 1: I mean we mentioned there were people there, and there

527
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 1: were the first hominids there. Well they weren't human actually,

528
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 1: so I sort of misspoke. But they were called Homo antecessor,

529
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 1: which was the predecessor to humans, and they were there

530
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:31,639
Speaker 1: about eight hundred thousand years ago. And then finally, you know,

531
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 1: we mentioned that Neanderthal fragment skull fragment they moved in

532
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 1: when Doggerland was a tundra, and I guess it was

533
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 1: two thousand and one when they found that skull fragment.

534
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 1: This is off the coast of the Netherlands and they

535
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 1: named this one. I love it when they name these,

536
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 1: you know, ancient humans. But I'm not even going to

537
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 1: try and pronounce it. It's kr i j n. I'm

538
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 1: not sure how you would say that in Dutch.

539
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 2: I saw that it was one syllable, so I'm not

540
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 2: sure either. But it's not krijan like I was saying

541
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 2: that Jay's got to be silent, right, it does something weird, Yeah, it.

542
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 1: Does something weird. But they reckon that fossil. They dated

543
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 1: it to about seventy thousand years old, and they said

544
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 1: this guy probably ate a lot of meat as his diet,

545
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 1: maybe some fish, but definitely was chouned down on some

546
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 1: pretty good food. And then you know, they found all

547
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 1: sorts of stuff over the years on the coast of

548
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 1: the Netherlands. Netherlands, just like a bone point or an

549
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 1: axe or any kind of carved pointed you know, arrowhead

550
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 1: or harpoon head would just wash up on shore.

551
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is some of the evidence that we have

552
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 2: that Neanderthals were pretty smart and actually well adapted or

553
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 2: suited to cold climates. So they were still around during

554
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 2: the younger dryest humans had kind of come along before

555
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 2: the younger dryas the younger dryis came along, they beat

556
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 2: him back. And then finally after the younger dryas, Homo

557
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 2: sapiens really start to show up. Yeah, I think as

558
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 2: early as I fourteen thousand years ago. And again this

559
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,959
Speaker 2: is the beginning of the Mesolithic in Europe, and they

560
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 2: were hunter gatherers. They just basically migrated westward from continental

561
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 2: Europe because they could get there by walking from Europe

562
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 2: to the UK. And they were like this Doggerland place

563
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 2: is pretty nice. We're gonna stick around here.

564
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, So you know, for a while they were migrating around,

565
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 1: following the animals, going where the food was. But they said,

566
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 1: you know, they're basically like anyone else from that time

567
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 1: in that place, from that era and area. Man, this

568
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 1: is really just fitting together like a glove.

569
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 3: You know, I love it.

570
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,479
Speaker 1: They were, you know, carving things from stone, carving things

571
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 1: from antlers we have direct evidence of both, and animal

572
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 1: bones that were wearing animal skins. But they said they

573
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 1: think eventually, like you said, they decided like, hey, this

574
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 1: place is nice, let's set up camp here and maybe

575
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 1: even farmed there.

576
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is where the transition from the Mesolithic

577
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 2: to the Neolithic happens. It's pretty much what they consider

578
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 2: the change or the beginning of the Neolithic was when

579
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 2: people started farming, and that happened on dogger Land. This

580
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 2: is where they essentially found the place that they could

581
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 2: grow crops. It was warmer then around this time than

582
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 2: it was than it is now in that area, so

583
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 2: they were very easily raising crops, figuring it out as

584
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 2: they went along. So that because they were raising crops,

585
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 2: they were more sedentary, which means that their populations grew

586
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 2: a little larger. So some of the things they're starting

587
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 2: to find are like evidence of villages. There's a really

588
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 2: amazing underwater archaeological site called Boldener Cliff off the Isle

589
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 2: of Wight, and they've found what seems to be like

590
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 2: a dock that probably went out into an ancient river.

591
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 2: There was like burials there, houses and pits, like, there's

592
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 2: a lot of really cool stuff. And this is a

593
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 2: really tantalizing view of and I can't use that word

594
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 2: enough in this episode, tantalizing. This is a tantalizing view

595
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 2: of all the stuff that's probably probably underwater throughout Doggerland.

596
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I guess we should talk about why it's

597
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 1: underwater this, you know, I think we already kind of

598
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 1: gave it away that it didn't happen all at once.

599
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 1: It happened over hundreds of thousands of years, little by

600
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 1: little glaciers of melting.

601
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 3: Sea levels are rising.

602
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 1: And there's you know, like I said, estimates anywhere from

603
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 1: five thousand to eight thousand years ago or seven thousand

604
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 1: rather of when people think it finally like you know,

605
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: was completely submerged, and it may not, you know, it

606
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,720
Speaker 1: may have become so uninhabitable, you know, long before that,

607
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 1: maybe even thousands of years before that.

608
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 3: Why well, I mean, there's a couple of theories.

609
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 1: There's a tsunami theory that says about eight thousand years

610
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 1: ago there were a bunch of massive tsunamis that you know,

611
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: pummeled the coast of Britain and completely wiped out Doggerland,

612
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 1: and they were caused by these submarine landslides in the

613
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 1: Norwegian Sea called the Storrega slides. But Gaffney was like,

614
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 1: I don't think.

615
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 3: It was that.

616
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 1: Actually, I think it was a climate change because I

617
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 1: think Doggerland itself, like he didn't doubt the tsunamis happened,

618
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 1: but he said, I think Doggerland itself was kind of

619
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 1: protected by the wooded, hilly terrain.

620
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, but still a lot of people would have died

621
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 2: because they think that the tsunami swept twenty five miles inland,

622
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 2: which is yes, a lot of settlements that you can

623
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 2: take out twenty five miles in And I don't know

624
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 2: if you remember, but in our Younger Driest episode we

625
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 2: talked about isostatic rebound or adjustment, where the glaciers and

626
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 2: ice sheets were so heavy that they actually pushed the

627
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 2: earth downward and it took some areas of land down

628
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 2: with it, like Scotland, but it raised other areas up,

629
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 2: kind of like if you put a bowling ball on

630
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 2: a mattress, which you know you usually do, and one

631
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 2: of the areas that got raised up was Doggerland, right,

632
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 2: So when the glaciers melted, Doggerland started to sink. And

633
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 2: then in addition to that, the glaciers melting made the

634
00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:00,160
Speaker 2: sea levels rise, which is why this stuff was happening

635
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 2: so quickly. They think that possibly sea level rise was

636
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 2: happening as fast as a meter over a century, which

637
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 2: doesn't sound like much, but right now the sea level

638
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 2: rise we're worried about is happening like thirty centimeters a century,

639
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 2: so that is a really fast sea level rise. So

640
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 2: it's not like it would have caught people off guard,

641
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 2: but their way of life would have been disrupted pretty

642
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,479
Speaker 2: significantly by the tsunamis and the sea level rise.

643
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:29,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw even you know, potentially up to two

644
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 1: meters per century. So that's you know, super fast.

645
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:36,239
Speaker 2: Super that's like twice as fast at least. So as

646
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 2: the as the sea levels rose and Doggerland sank, Scotland,

647
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:43,319
Speaker 2: by the way, is still rising. The land wasn't just

648
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 2: some flat mass there were highlands, there were hills and

649
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,359
Speaker 2: all that. So little by little it was submerged, and

650
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:52,240
Speaker 2: they think that the last bit was probably Dogger's Bank,

651
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 2: because so it's one of the most shallow parts of

652
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 2: the North Sea. And by the time it was completely submerged,

653
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 2: all the people who had moved upward in the British

654
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,839
Speaker 2: Isles were now officially British. They were cut off from

655
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 2: Europe now for the first time. Like you said, that

656
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 2: was between five thousand and seven thousand years ago.

657
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,799
Speaker 1: These days there's sort of a new threat to the

658
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,800
Speaker 1: idea of a lot more science happening there because of

659
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 1: those wind farms you mentioned early on. It's a pretty

660
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 1: great area for wind farming, but it's threatening, you know,

661
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:29,280
Speaker 1: parts of the North Sea. Like we said, it's fairly

662
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 1: shallow as far as seas go, and there's lots of

663
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:35,720
Speaker 1: great wind there. And the plan is by twenty thirty

664
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 1: that the southern part of the North Sea is just

665
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 1: going to be riddled with wind farms. The downside of that,

666
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 1: I mean, this great renewable energy, but the downside is

667
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 1: that this stuff is really disruptive to the ecology there

668
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:51,840
Speaker 1: and certainly disruptive to all those dogger Land sites that

669
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:53,320
Speaker 1: they're still hoping to explore.

670
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:56,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was reading that because the North Sea is

671
00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:01,719
Speaker 2: so shallow, the kind of wind farms that they can

672
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 2: put in can actually be bolted to the bedrock, which

673
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 2: is way cheaper than like the floating version. So they're

674
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:11,359
Speaker 2: salivating over putting wind farms there. But again, that means

675
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 2: that they're bolting wind turbines to Doggerland, which is nay

676
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:21,799
Speaker 2: good for the archaeological aspect. It's naggd right, that's exactly right,

677
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:24,239
Speaker 2: So they don't. I mean, it seems like these wind

678
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 2: farms are going on. Stupid wind farms, always ruining the

679
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:31,800
Speaker 2: environment for everybody. Yeah, and I don't know that anybody's

680
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 2: going to be able to change it, because everybody thinks

681
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 2: Dogland's cool, but not necessarily disrupt progress as far as

682
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 2: renewable energy goes cool. Yeah, so I guess that's it

683
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 2: for Doggerlin.

684
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:46,399
Speaker 3: That's right.

685
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 2: Chuck said, that's right, which means everybody, it's time for

686
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 2: listener mail.

687
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 1: This is from Andy. Hey, guys, been listening since COVID

688
00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:00,320
Speaker 1: twenty twenty. I've heard your entire library, and I've almost

689
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 1: agreed with everything that Chuck says. I think it was

690
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 1: a title brother from another mother. We're close in age,

691
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:09,920
Speaker 1: so we have similar childhood memories. And this morning, when

692
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 1: Chuck brought up the guitar solo from my Sharona, I

693
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 1: knew that we were made from the same cloth, because

694
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 1: for many years now I've touted that guitar solo as

695
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 1: my most favorite.

696
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 3: Solo of all time. Wow, I'm glad here, though.

697
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 1: I'm not alone. So thank you Chuck for being like

698
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 1: a brother to me. On another note, you failed to

699
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:29,720
Speaker 1: mention the true father of AM radio guys, Nikola Tesla.

700
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 1: Tesla actually patented the technology before Marconi did, make him

701
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 1: the actual father of radio. Marconi quote bothered end quote

702
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:41,279
Speaker 1: Tesla's technology and ran with it. And he was just

703
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:43,959
Speaker 1: a much better businessman than Tesla, so he was able

704
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,759
Speaker 1: to monetize the technology, earning him the notoriety that he

705
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:47,240
Speaker 1: has today.

706
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:48,360
Speaker 3: Is the father of radio.

707
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 2: So Jefferson's Starships should have said, Tesla plays the mambo.

708
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess so.

709
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:57,360
Speaker 2: Tesla played the mamba.

710
00:37:57,520 --> 00:37:57,879
Speaker 1: It works.

711
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 3: It would have worked. Yeah.

712
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,239
Speaker 1: Read many books on Nikola Tesla and his inventions and

713
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 1: find him one of the most fascinating men of all time.

714
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 1: Without him we might not have had such things as

715
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 1: the remote control of robotics and wireless transmission.

716
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 3: Thanks for everything, guys.

717
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:13,839
Speaker 1: You make my commute to work relaxing and educational three

718
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:14,439
Speaker 1: days of the week.

719
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 3: And that is Andy McDonald.

720
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 2: Thanks Andy, that was a good email. Surely then, if

721
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:21,360
Speaker 2: you've listened to our back catalog you're aware of the

722
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,799
Speaker 2: Electricity Wars we went over with Edison Tesla, but I

723
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:28,799
Speaker 2: feel like Tesla could definitely stand his own episode two.

724
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 3: Yeah.

725
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:33,359
Speaker 2: Maybe, Okay, Well, let's see if you want to get

726
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 2: in touch with this, like Andy, you can do that,

727
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 2: Send us an email and say whatever you want. Send

728
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 2: it off to Stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.

729
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 3: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

730
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:51,839
Speaker 3: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

731
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:53,800
Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

732
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 2: Yeah,