Speaker 1: Welcome to Playback Variety podcast. I'm your host, Variety Awards
Speaker 1: Editor Chris Tappen. On today's show, we talked about nominations
Speaker 1: for the Golden Globes and Screen Actors Guild. A little
Speaker 1: bit later, I'll be talking to The Jungle Book director
Speaker 1: Jon Favreau. So stick around. All right, we're back and
Speaker 1: there's Janelle Riley. Hey, we're back again, Take back again.
Speaker 1: We just recorded for about ten minutes. At least ten minutes.
Speaker 1: Maybe this would have been fine for people, but my
Speaker 1: level was not picking up the entire time, and we
Speaker 1: need to hear christ You would have just heard Janelle talking,
Speaker 1: would have been terribless in the room and looking up
Speaker 1: mementos screenplay on her and that my father never hugged me.
Speaker 1: None of you understand what we're talking about right now. Anyway,
Speaker 1: busy week yess Golden Globe nomination for AM on Monday too, Like,
Speaker 1: what's wrong with you? Do you? You seem to think
Speaker 1: I have a choice. Mr Handsome over here doesn't want
Speaker 1: to go on TV, so they send me. And I
Speaker 1: don't know if you know this or not, how sick
Speaker 1: I was Monday? You said you booted right before you
Speaker 1: you went on booted, is that you're such a dad
Speaker 1: looked at you. Yes, I did happen to vo about
Speaker 1: about three minutes before we went live on the air.
Speaker 1: So if anyone DVA yard that, well, what's funny is
Speaker 1: they have a camera on you in the like green
Speaker 1: room area, and so like they cut to us and
Speaker 1: be like, you know, coming up next, and I'm like
Speaker 1: waving to the camera, and then like when I realized
Speaker 1: I was going to be sick, the poor cameraman was,
Speaker 1: you know, just just just like covered the camera got
Speaker 1: out of my way. They were so gracious and everybody
Speaker 1: was so nice about it, because I would have been like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, who is this person? And everybody was
Speaker 1: like telling me stories about when it happened to them
Speaker 1: or this one woman went into labor on the air,
Speaker 1: and it was they were very, very nice. So you
Speaker 1: puked right before you were going to talk about the
Speaker 1: Golden Globes, and it say something about your opinion the
Speaker 1: Hollywood Foreign Press Association. You know, Um, I have some
Speaker 1: pretty harsh opinions about the Golden Globes. But then they
Speaker 1: go and they do some things right and it makes
Speaker 1: the hard internal animals mentioned very pleased to see a
Speaker 1: nocturnal animals doing well. Cologne worked out, but they had
Speaker 1: to send back right, didn't work out because tom Ford
Speaker 1: sent them all, collect them his and hers, and I
Speaker 1: think that they had to send one of them back. Oh,
Speaker 1: just one of them because everything is the limits. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's like limit. If they were really serious
Speaker 1: about this, they would not allow gifts at as. Of
Speaker 1: course that a simple solution, but why would you do that?
Speaker 1: But I was very happy um to say, well, you know,
Speaker 1: you know that I'm a huge fan of tom Ford cosmetics.
Speaker 1: So if you really want to bribe me some highbrowd
Speaker 1: pants all, maybe shul join the HFPO. I don't think
Speaker 1: he likes when I say that either, because like I'm
Speaker 1: always telling him how much I love his cosmetics, and
Speaker 1: he's like, that's not way I made the movie. It's
Speaker 1: a terrible but he Yeah. So Aaron Taylor Johnson was
Speaker 1: the big surprise, very big because I'm surprise though. I
Speaker 1: think he's very good and it's really good. I showed
Speaker 1: my wife the toilet scene out of context the other day,
Speaker 1: which is top notch, probably my favorite part of the
Speaker 1: movie that I don't really like the movie, but that's right,
Speaker 1: cracks me up. I think we sat next to each
Speaker 1: other the first time you saw the movie and I
Speaker 1: was loving it, and you did not look as happy
Speaker 1: as I was not as thrilled. But you know, Tom
Speaker 1: is a very uh unique director, and he got two
Speaker 1: nominations Director and screenplay. I think it's a great adaptation
Speaker 1: of a screenplay. I was really happy to see that
Speaker 1: because I'm actually reading Tony and Susan, the book it's
Speaker 1: based on, and you know, oh, I know right, No,
Speaker 1: Turnal Animals is so much better. But it's interesting when
Speaker 1: you read difficult Google search though, don't hit and come
Speaker 1: up with a lot of pictures of bats and stuff. Um,
Speaker 1: you know. I also think A Rival is an excellent adaptation.
Speaker 1: I love reading, and I've just been reading the short Story,
Speaker 1: and I love when it's, you know, a solid short
Speaker 1: story or book and it builds on that but also
Speaker 1: becomes its own animal, so to speak. So those are
Speaker 1: two adaptations that have really impressed me. Deadpool Deadpool Best
Speaker 1: Comedy Best Picture nominee, which is a little bit further
Speaker 1: than I would have taken that. I mean, I expected
Speaker 1: Ryan Reynolds for the star quality, and he is good
Speaker 1: in the movie, but like, I don't know, man, there's
Speaker 1: better comedies out there to pull, sure, but I'm just
Speaker 1: happy that they're actually nominating comedies. Yeah, that was a
Speaker 1: big deal last year. Although look, they put out this
Speaker 1: language saying, you know, a comedy is a comedy, not
Speaker 1: a drama with comedic under tones, and it's like, look, guys,
Speaker 1: you were the ones that who decided that The Martian
Speaker 1: was a comedy, which, by the way, I never had
Speaker 1: a huge problem with. Well Joy wasn't really a comedy either. Yeah, so,
Speaker 1: and it still is still incumbent on them to decide
Speaker 1: these things. They were competing in a categor and they
Speaker 1: won Jennifer Lawrence one actress, Matt Damon one actor, Martian
Speaker 1: one Best Picture, and they were competing against genuine comedy
Speaker 1: off rightfully, So, I mean, I remember when he said,
Speaker 1: you know, if if you put your movie in the
Speaker 1: comedy category, because you're game in the traumas, yeah, you're
Speaker 1: gaming the system. And he wasn't wrong. Um. There was also,
Speaker 1: by the way that the Critics Choice Awards were last week,
Speaker 1: if you want to touch on that, it was a
Speaker 1: long show. It was a long show. Stanfield had his
Speaker 1: uh moment where he jumped up there when the guy
Speaker 1: was wanting for Silicon Valley, what one best picture I'll
Speaker 1: land obviously, you say, obviously, but I really thought Moonlight
Speaker 1: had a shot because it was critics. It was like
Speaker 1: three of them though. I mean, I think it's one
Speaker 1: of those things where the broad not nominated for ensemble, Critics,
Speaker 1: Chice Awards not nominated. But why is it such a
Speaker 1: big deal today that it wasn't nominated? Well, because the
Speaker 1: last time the Best Picture winner was nominated for seg
Speaker 1: ensemble was We literally just had this conversation fifteen minutes ago.
Speaker 1: That's what's so funny was Braveheart, and we both agreed
Speaker 1: that Braveheart actually should have been reviewing our podcast that
Speaker 1: we are tell the Gary story again. Let me let
Speaker 1: me set it up. The interesting thing about that, You know,
Speaker 1: I had Mel Gibson on the podcast a few weeks
Speaker 1: ago and yeah, oh yeah, right made its rounds and
Speaker 1: uh he I was just talking to him about the
Speaker 1: fact that Apul thirteen was so dominant there here. I mean,
Speaker 1: that was that is the weirdest Oscar year like in
Speaker 1: the modern context to me, because Paul thirteen one d
Speaker 1: G A sag P g A. You do not win
Speaker 1: those three and and not win Best Picture. The only
Speaker 1: thing Braveheart one was a w g A. Really so
Speaker 1: brave Fart goes on a one Best Picture And obviously
Speaker 1: Ron Howard wasn't even nominated for Best Director, which is crazy. Uh.
Speaker 1: And then they were working on Ransom together at the time,
Speaker 1: which is where your Garyson new story comes. Yes, I
Speaker 1: heard this on Mark Marin's podcast with Ron Howard it
Speaker 1: he said that, you know, they came in the day
Speaker 1: of the nominations and Gary Sneeze was shooting a scene
Speaker 1: and he asked Ron Howard for some direction and then said, wait,
Speaker 1: what the hell am I asking you for? Mel tell
Speaker 1: me how to do this scene? And everybody laughed and
Speaker 1: it kind of broke the ice. And and then six
Speaker 1: years later, five years whatever, uh, Ron Howard finally wins
Speaker 1: Best Director for The Beautiful Mind. And guess who presented
Speaker 1: him that askar Gary? It would have been cool if
Speaker 1: it have been Gary would have been interesting. So there
Speaker 1: we go. That's interesting Oscar history for you. But anytime
Speaker 1: anyone throws these facts at me about how like La
Speaker 1: La Land can't win Best Picture because it doesn't have
Speaker 1: a sag ensemble nomb I remember, you know they said
Speaker 1: Argo couldn't win Best Picture because Ben Affleck didn't get
Speaker 1: a director nom and Birdman can't win because I didn't
Speaker 1: get an editor nome. And you know, rules for these
Speaker 1: rules to be dismantled so people will stop bringing them up,
Speaker 1: and let's be honest. La La Land is a two hander,
Speaker 1: it is. But I do think it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: last year, Beast of No Nation was nominated literally three
Speaker 1: people or the nominees for that ensemble uh million Dollar Baby,
Speaker 1: I think there was four or five. So for a
Speaker 1: movie that's so beloved to not be just kind of
Speaker 1: grandfathered in is a little odd. I did think it
Speaker 1: would get in just based on pure love and the
Speaker 1: fact that it's actors, you know, celebrating actors. But um,
Speaker 1: you know it's it's a really good year for ensembles.
Speaker 1: I mean, look at the ones that made it and
Speaker 1: those are like true, true ensembles, and so thrilled for
Speaker 1: Captain Fantastic and Vigo Mortensen's one of my favorite movies
Speaker 1: of the year. Um, really hoping that that carries over
Speaker 1: into the Mascar. Love and Hidden Figures was a nominee,
Speaker 1: which I think is further indication that it's you know,
Speaker 1: we both think it's it's the strong best Best Picture possibility.
Speaker 1: I'm really holding out hope to Rogi p Henson and
Speaker 1: Kevin Costner. Can you crack into the race? Garage is
Speaker 1: the toughest one there? Yeah, I mean look at that
Speaker 1: category that I think that Emily Blunt is legitimate competition.
Speaker 1: Although I feel a little bad for Emily Blond. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean she's every everyone after that, which is interesting
Speaker 1: in the movie performance, Yeah, it's a it's a bad movie.
Speaker 1: It's not a good movie. Um, it's a good performance.
Speaker 1: She you know, those screeners were out there early. Um,
Speaker 1: she's very charming. Like it's just such a crazy competitive category.
Speaker 1: And when you have people like Isabelle who Pair and
Speaker 1: Annette Benning and Jessica Chastain and Rage p Henson and
Speaker 1: Ruth Nigga shut out of that one, you know, it
Speaker 1: does reason eyebrow to see someone who was like not
Speaker 1: in a great movie to but maybe she's susten to her.
Speaker 1: I mean, like it's ext be good in a good movie.
Speaker 1: I think there's been weirder nominations that last year. I
Speaker 1: thought Sarah Silverman and Helen Mirren for Women and Woman
Speaker 1: in Gold was weird. That was very weird. But it
Speaker 1: reflects that early timeline, I mean really early. Their deadline
Speaker 1: was December eleven. You know, I almost put Captain Fantastic
Speaker 1: in my ensemble guesses because they always have a kind
Speaker 1: of out of left field saying horseshoes. You know, I don't.
Speaker 1: You don't get a pat on the bending close only
Speaker 1: counts and horseshoes and hand grenades. But I put it
Speaker 1: on Twitter, like there is evidence Twitter is forever. Yeah,
Speaker 1: tell that to Donald Trump. Let's not um what else
Speaker 1: herschel was a three time nominee. Yes, he was figures
Speaker 1: in Moonlight ensembles as well as his own Moonlight nomination.
Speaker 1: And did you get a TV nomination for Anything or
Speaker 1: No House of Cards. I don't think got ensemble. No.
Speaker 1: I could be wrong about that. Um. But that leads
Speaker 1: us into Moonlight and Loving screenplays. Right, So the most
Speaker 1: recent news. As we both try to turn on the lights,
Speaker 1: Chris and I are sitting here in the darkness, it's
Speaker 1: not registering us. We don't exist. Moonlight and I mean
Speaker 1: Moonlight and uh Loving were considered adapted screenplays by the
Speaker 1: Academy after the w g A considered them original, which
Speaker 1: is interesting. Um, and I think great news for Moonlight.
Speaker 1: I think it probably wins. Don't you just gonna want
Speaker 1: adapted now? Yeah? I mean it's the play was never
Speaker 1: staged or produced, so per the ling, previously material, previously published, reproduced,
Speaker 1: it's not an adapted screenplay. But I think the Academy
Speaker 1: looks at these source materials a little closer and the
Speaker 1: script and it's like, okay, well this is we we
Speaker 1: consider this adapted. And with Loving it was the fact
Speaker 1: that there was a documentary, The Loving Story with one
Speaker 1: of the same producers that's on the feature. So you know,
Speaker 1: w g A said original. Academy says adapted adapted is
Speaker 1: a much thinner category than original. Issue is. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's some great adapted screenplays in there, but just not
Speaker 1: the kind that usually win. I mean there are there
Speaker 1: are screenplays I love, like a Rival, which I you know,
Speaker 1: might have said was the front runner until now. Um,
Speaker 1: but you know it's a genre. Pack might have said
Speaker 1: a lion, Oh, lion, Lion. Yeah, it's pretty wonderful. I
Speaker 1: think it's good news for Matt Ross to get into original.
Speaker 1: Nothing would make me happier. And it's actually great news
Speaker 1: for law La Land in Manchester because now that's just
Speaker 1: the two of them. Yeah, I mean, I think that's
Speaker 1: going to be Manchester. But he really just starts to
Speaker 1: pull him in, which it could. I mean, I do
Speaker 1: think there's a possibility that movie could win more Oscars
Speaker 1: since some dog. I gotta tell you, I think I'm
Speaker 1: leaning towards La La Land right now for screenplay totally. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I have to say, like you know a lot
Speaker 1: of people will say, well, musicals never win screenplay, but
Speaker 1: it's like this is it's a different screenplay. Yeah, this is.
Speaker 1: This has a very solid screenplay. There's no like sun
Speaker 1: through songs, like there's there's a good script in there.
Speaker 1: By the way, as it pertains to having your script swapped.
Speaker 1: Damien Chazelle has been there with Whiplash. Whiplash was based
Speaker 1: was was this is kind of silly? Yeah, totally. It
Speaker 1: was a scene from Whiplash that he filmed separately as
Speaker 1: a short short film and took the Sun Dance just
Speaker 1: to kind of like generate interest. And I think it's
Speaker 1: funding me. Yeah. And it was considered by the w
Speaker 1: G a original and the Academy decided adapted, would it
Speaker 1: have one that wasn't that the year of Birdman? Uh? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so it probably wouldn't have one. It probably to better
Speaker 1: shots and adapted where it loss to interfation games. But
Speaker 1: I love that movie so much. I would have voted
Speaker 1: for it wherever it went, if I could vote. But
Speaker 1: then I'm just kind of like I'm contradicting myself in
Speaker 1: a way because if the Academy would have looked at
Speaker 1: the source material quote unquote of Whiplash versus the feature,
Speaker 1: it would have seen that it was just a scene
Speaker 1: from the film. Because Sundance is an Academy whatever, a festival.
Speaker 1: That is why you know it was considered quote previously
Speaker 1: published or produced. But it's it's stupid, This is stupid,
Speaker 1: Like this is so stupid, Like I'm just the fact
Speaker 1: that I'm sitting here having to beend myself in ance
Speaker 1: to explain it, like a screenplay is either adapted from
Speaker 1: something or it's not. Can we stop being stupid? So
Speaker 1: you think even if it's adapted from something that's never
Speaker 1: been published, it should be well if your if your
Speaker 1: language is based on material previously published or produced, and
Speaker 1: the original material was not previously published or produced. If
Speaker 1: it was just some you know, manuscript and a desk, no,
Speaker 1: But if you want to remove that that specific language,
Speaker 1: then yeah, right. Because the example I always come back
Speaker 1: to his Memento. W g A considered it adapted because
Speaker 1: it was based on a shot are w g A.
Speaker 1: It was based on a short story Jonathan Nolan wrote
Speaker 1: but was never published anywhere, and Christopher Nolan adapted that
Speaker 1: into a screen play exactly and went into original lost
Speaker 1: to Gosford Park. That hurts parks a great screen but
Speaker 1: it was like the greatest movie of all time, all time.
Speaker 1: It's amazing. I was in film school, so you can imagine. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I was too, and it's yeah, my my
Speaker 1: favorite movie of all time is either Memento or Raising Arizona.
Speaker 1: So that's how my tastes run. What else happened here
Speaker 1: when with SAG We've got I did not throw up
Speaker 1: this morning? Oh yes, maybe because they did the announcement
Speaker 1: at seven am and gave us a couple of stowers
Speaker 1: of sleep. Yeah, we really gotta like stopped doing these
Speaker 1: nominations first thing in the morning. Someone is going to die,
Speaker 1: you know what I think they should do? Is with
Speaker 1: oscars anyway, they should have like a thirty minute prime
Speaker 1: time special on ABC that you would sell crazy edge
Speaker 1: and still make it to the morning shows in time
Speaker 1: and the morning shows the next day. If that's such
Speaker 1: a big deal. But who cares about the damn morning shows?
Speaker 1: Like your news is going to get out there? You're
Speaker 1: Kelly Rippa, Yeah, come on, Like and if it was
Speaker 1: just probably it could be cool as this primetime thing
Speaker 1: like the NFL Draft or something like that, and just
Speaker 1: reveal the nomination steadily throughout the thing, and you know, god,
Speaker 1: mastards like us wouldn't have to be up early like
Speaker 1: hammering out this stuff as quickly as possible. Yeah, No,
Speaker 1: I swear it's not for self much reasons. I think
Speaker 1: it would be a good idea. No, I think it's
Speaker 1: a good idea all around. And it's it's ridiculous that,
Speaker 1: you know, they're just stuck to the way it's always been.
Speaker 1: That's the way it's been. Uh what else? I've got
Speaker 1: the two versions of this that we recorded crashing in
Speaker 1: my head, so I don't I can't remember. I think
Speaker 1: that covers it this week. Let's just leave it. But
Speaker 1: next week we're gonna be kind of wrapping up the
Speaker 1: year in our own way. I think with top fives. Yes,
Speaker 1: I'm going with top fives this year. I think that's
Speaker 1: a good And look, I think that like La La
Speaker 1: Land and Moonlight are probably gonna be on both of
Speaker 1: our lists, So I don't know, really interesting. I can't
Speaker 1: read your expression right now because we're sitting here in
Speaker 1: the dark, so we'll have to see. I watch Moonlight
Speaker 1: again the other day. By the way. Oh yeah, beautiful movie.
Speaker 1: Yeah it's it's a fantautiful movie. I've had La La
Speaker 1: Land going. You know, I got the soundtrack, so I've
Speaker 1: been singing every my car every morning I wake up
Speaker 1: and I've got in my head. I don't it won't
Speaker 1: go away. Can we just agree? Um? You know they
Speaker 1: released the song eligible songs, and for me, the two
Speaker 1: best songs in La La Land aren't on that list. Uh,
Speaker 1: someone in the Crowd and Another Day of Sun Another Day.
Speaker 1: Yea yeah, I mean, look, the songs that aren't not
Speaker 1: in the Crowd is my favorite. Yes, that whole number
Speaker 1: is so just like that's the that is like, yeah,
Speaker 1: is it should be on every list? And I think
Speaker 1: I tweeted this, but um, the song John Legend sing
Speaker 1: Start a Fire. It's supposed to sort of indicate that
Speaker 1: the selling out, and it's supposed to be a popular song,
Speaker 1: but god do I love it. It's a fun song
Speaker 1: song and it doesn't hurt that John Legend is singing it.
Speaker 1: And let's also just mentioned briefly since we're on the
Speaker 1: topic of music. Scores came out this week and three
Speaker 1: of them were ineligible Manchester by the Sea, Arrival, and
Speaker 1: Silence with Arrival in particular, it's because of that use
Speaker 1: of the Max Richter song on the nature of daylight
Speaker 1: the book ends the movie that the branch felt that
Speaker 1: that would influence interpretation of the original material, which is
Speaker 1: obviously bullshit. But that branches like, they're so weird. Why
Speaker 1: did they hate Danny Alfman? Just give the man an
Speaker 1: oscar already. Well, that's not up to them as to
Speaker 1: whether he gets an oscar. It's the whole Academy voting.
Speaker 1: But he hasn't gotten a lot of nominations, that's for sure.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so Arrival, you know, despite the fact that
Speaker 1: Johan Johansson's work is pretty great in that movie, he's
Speaker 1: what he does. No, he was nominated for Theory and Sicario.
Speaker 1: He won the bath to for theory, but no he didn't.
Speaker 1: I think he won the Oscar for theory. He didn't.
Speaker 1: It was I was on her this platform for Grant Budapest,
Speaker 1: which one bath to an Oscar. But uh yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean he does really inventive stuff in Arrival and as
Speaker 1: part of this whole kind of movement that's blurring the
Speaker 1: line between music and sound design with film music, and
Speaker 1: it's kind of a slap yeah. I mean so with
Speaker 1: Manchester and Silence, it was just deemed that the original
Speaker 1: material was not quote substantial enough, so it was kind
Speaker 1: of minimal. And also Manchester had a lot of classical
Speaker 1: pieces throughout it as well. So you can't see me
Speaker 1: right now, but I've fallen asleep. Heyward time baby everything
Speaker 1: And look I love scores, but let's be honest, La
Speaker 1: La Land is gonna win nothing now the batters, Yeah,
Speaker 1: probably all right. Well, this week Jon Favreau, John Favresma
Speaker 1: talk to me about Jungle Book and Lion King, which
Speaker 1: he's working on. I was glad to get him in
Speaker 1: here because I uh, everybody has been like someone with
Speaker 1: a movie coming up, or with someone someone with a
Speaker 1: movie that's already out like, I haven't talked to anybody
Speaker 1: who had a movie like months ago, so I wanted
Speaker 1: to get him in here before that. I was watching
Speaker 1: him last night and one of my favorite movies of
Speaker 1: all time, I Love You Man. We talked about Swingers too, obviously, Sorry,
Speaker 1: I Love You Man is a perfect movie. Swingers is
Speaker 1: too uses a great movie, but I really love I
Speaker 1: Love You Man. And it was fun to see j K.
Speaker 1: Simmons prior to his Oscar winning role. That's always fun
Speaker 1: seeing j K. Simmons with hair. And by the way,
Speaker 1: he's like whoa. But anyway, stay tuned for that. We'll
Speaker 1: be right back. I can't help but notice as the
Speaker 1: strange odor today, man is forbidden gay. The jungle is
Speaker 1: no longer safe for you? But is it my home?
Speaker 1: Only man can protect you now? Or sweet little Coke,
Speaker 1: what are you doing so deep in the jungle? You
Speaker 1: are a man cla who wants to live in a jungle.
Speaker 1: How do you know that kid? I got ears, My
Speaker 1: ears got ears. Only I can protect you? Get about.
Speaker 1: That's a song about the good life here sing nothing
Speaker 1: TB has this boy. If anything happens to that kid,
Speaker 1: never forget leg help all right, welcome back everyone. I'm
Speaker 1: here with the director of the Jungle Book, Jon Favreau.
Speaker 1: Thanks for coming on the show Man pleasure. Really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: As I was just saying, a lot of the folks
Speaker 1: that we've had lately have had movies on the horizon
Speaker 1: or in play already, but I wanted to make sure
Speaker 1: I got ahold of you. Your phone released in April, yes,
Speaker 1: and we didn't get around the launching the podcast till August.
Speaker 1: That's right. This was such a massive, amazing undertaking, and uh,
Speaker 1: I want to talk about that in a number of things,
Speaker 1: thank you, honestly. So before we get into specifics on
Speaker 1: Jungle Book, uh, you know, between that, which I think
Speaker 1: is obviously a part of the ongoing revitalization of the
Speaker 1: Disney I P. I think it's also its own branch
Speaker 1: and it's going to kind of uh inspire different things
Speaker 1: within that realm. Between that and you know, essentially launching
Speaker 1: the Marvel Juggernaut with Iron Man eight years ago, You've
Speaker 1: made some massive and continue to make massive splashes and
Speaker 1: these big business driving waters. It's look, it's been a
Speaker 1: lot of fun. I like the world building side of it,
Speaker 1: because you have all this technology available, and you have
Speaker 1: new ways to tell stories. So there's a lot of
Speaker 1: stories that couldn't have been told before the way they're
Speaker 1: told now. And when you know, as as as I
Speaker 1: like to watch movies, I'm a movie fan, so when
Speaker 1: I see somebody does something cool, your mind starts to
Speaker 1: race with, well, what could you do? What kind of
Speaker 1: stories could you tell using these tools that these people
Speaker 1: have innovated. So Uh, in the case of Iron Man,
Speaker 1: you know, you really couldn't convincingly show a guy at
Speaker 1: flying like that in a in a tech driven way.
Speaker 1: You know that the technology really hadn't changed much up
Speaker 1: until that point since like Superman as far as how
Speaker 1: you show a hero. And then all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: when you see what I. L M was doing with
Speaker 1: transformers and and with hard surfaces, you started to realize
Speaker 1: that you could do some really convincing work with c
Speaker 1: g I and character based c g I. And that's
Speaker 1: that's what I think made that the moment when Iron
Speaker 1: Man could work, and of course Robert Downey, uh, everybody
Speaker 1: ready to embrace him and the wonderful performance that he
Speaker 1: gave in the cast in general, and Marvel having its
Speaker 1: strategy for how it was going to approach its I
Speaker 1: P in a way that honored the base fans, the
Speaker 1: core fans, and all of these these innovations came together,
Speaker 1: and then the building of the tone of that world
Speaker 1: in a way that extended to other, to other characters
Speaker 1: and other and other Marvel stories helped um make for
Speaker 1: a personality that people here like and equally or arguably
Speaker 1: more importantly than people around the world liked. Because this
Speaker 1: is you know, if you're going to do films at
Speaker 1: that budget level, you can't just be making it for
Speaker 1: you know, your own backyard. It has to it has
Speaker 1: to travel well that those are the you know, that's
Speaker 1: those the economics of the business. And with Disney, you know,
Speaker 1: I think at the time of doing Jungle Book, having
Speaker 1: seen things like Planet of the Apes and Avatar and
Speaker 1: U and actually Gravity, because of a lot of the
Speaker 1: innovative techniques that they used in melding CG with with
Speaker 1: practical photography, it became clear that there was an opportunity
Speaker 1: to tell a type of story that wouldn't have been
Speaker 1: told us elegantly with the technologies of just a few
Speaker 1: years ago. So as a as a filmmaker and a
Speaker 1: bit of a movie geek where I love keeping up
Speaker 1: on the effects of those opportunities open up channels for
Speaker 1: for new types of property that traditionally hadn't been part
Speaker 1: of cinema. Well, when you were, you know, going to auditions,
Speaker 1: struggling as a younger actor, getting involved in the independent
Speaker 1: film movement, I mean sure, was it this the dream
Speaker 1: for you? Was this anything you had in mind? Look,
Speaker 1: I loved it. I always loved reading Starlog magazine and
Speaker 1: and and knowing how they made Blade Runner, and you know,
Speaker 1: even as a kid loving Monster movies and the Harry
Speaker 1: House and stuff and makeup effects and so I love
Speaker 1: that stuff anyway. So to get to play with all
Speaker 1: those toys and work with the people who are you know,
Speaker 1: work with Stan Winston and see how they do it,
Speaker 1: and work with I LM and film miniatures and you know,
Speaker 1: all that stuff was was interesting. I wouldn't go as
Speaker 1: far as to say that was my vision. I just
Speaker 1: wanted to, you know, just the fact that I could
Speaker 1: make a living acting was was amazing to me. And
Speaker 1: the idea that someday I could maybe right and direct,
Speaker 1: you know, and back then it wasn't really the independent
Speaker 1: film scene that was inspiring because it was kind of
Speaker 1: previous to it. The independent what would now be considered
Speaker 1: dependent was more mainstream, and the early career Woody Allen,
Speaker 1: I guess would be independent film now. But you know,
Speaker 1: I grew up watching those movies and and thinking, you know,
Speaker 1: someday you could make something that's personal to you, that's
Speaker 1: also funny and entertaining and and could do well at
Speaker 1: the box office. So as you know with Swingers, with
Speaker 1: the writing of Swingers, that that happened on the heels
Speaker 1: of getting opportunities in My foot in the door through
Speaker 1: my acting is primarily a supporting actor, character actor. You know,
Speaker 1: that opens up doors and and and honestly working with
Speaker 1: Marvel that door was opened up by me acting in
Speaker 1: in Daredevil, and that's when I'm at Aviarrod. So relationships form.
Speaker 1: You also get this wonderful perspective that you don't get
Speaker 1: when you enter directing from other avenues, which is you
Speaker 1: get to be an apprentice. You get to be on set,
Speaker 1: you get to watch master directors do their thing, and
Speaker 1: you get to learn by absorbing it and by being
Speaker 1: immersed in movie culture and participating at it and asking questions,
Speaker 1: and they let you come to the editing room. David
Speaker 1: Onspa and Rudy let me come to his editing room. Um,
Speaker 1: Mimi leader, let me come to effects reviews on Deep Impact.
Speaker 1: So I've been very fortunate to have very gracious and
Speaker 1: generous directors who were very happy to answer questions, and
Speaker 1: cinematographers and people from all departments and everybody in the
Speaker 1: crew and uh, and I love being on a set,
Speaker 1: even when I was doing background work living in Chicago,
Speaker 1: so just being on a movie set was exciting. And
Speaker 1: so as I've been able to climb that ladder, I
Speaker 1: understand the traditions of film culture and I and I
Speaker 1: still love being on a set. I still love walking
Speaker 1: on the back lots to go to meetings. Um and
Speaker 1: I just I've never lost that thrill, kept the romance alive.
Speaker 1: I really have, I really have, and I and I
Speaker 1: am very excited to be in a position where I
Speaker 1: could actually innovate and and try to keep that tradition
Speaker 1: alive and keep you know, keep production in Los Angeles
Speaker 1: and and hire those crews and and figure out a
Speaker 1: way to meld innovations and technology with the traditions of filmmaking.
Speaker 1: When you first kind of started to wait out into directing. Uh,
Speaker 1: you were working in TV. I think you did a
Speaker 1: couple of pilots. What did those early experiences do for you.
Speaker 1: What did you kind of hold on to that you
Speaker 1: still apply today. Well, I was, you know, I was.
Speaker 1: I think looking back, it's going back decades now, but
Speaker 1: on the heels of the success of Swingers, a lot
Speaker 1: of people wanted to hire me in television to write.
Speaker 1: And what I would do instead of taking a deal,
Speaker 1: I would I would write spec scripts and I would
Speaker 1: go directly to networks and and I would get them
Speaker 1: to in And since I was specing it the amount
Speaker 1: of creative input and going through the development process of
Speaker 1: pilot season, especially back then, which could have been very invasive,
Speaker 1: I was able to, um avoid that and treat it
Speaker 1: more like you were making a movie. So I would
Speaker 1: I would write pilot. I would get to film the
Speaker 1: pilot if they bought it, and always they would, you know,
Speaker 1: I would get different networks to pick it up, and
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, there's no assurance that's ever going
Speaker 1: to get to air, and and lo and behold, none
Speaker 1: of them ever did. But I did get to direct
Speaker 1: my own work. Um and it was like doing a
Speaker 1: little movie with a real budget and a real you know,
Speaker 1: back then all of it was filming here, and I
Speaker 1: got to work with the cruise and I got to,
Speaker 1: you know, walk to my set and see trailers parked
Speaker 1: and and all the thrills that I would get when
Speaker 1: I was acting in a movie. Now it was my set,
Speaker 1: and I got to do a few of them, about
Speaker 1: three of them, and none of them got picked up.
Speaker 1: And all of them, I'm sure if I look back
Speaker 1: at them now that I'm sure there was a lot
Speaker 1: of learning, a steep learning curve there. But by the
Speaker 1: time I actually did get onto a set that I
Speaker 1: was a director of, on the set of Made, I
Speaker 1: already had the experience and confidence to walk onto a set,
Speaker 1: and I feel like I was over my head. I
Speaker 1: had a lot of experience with a lower state then
Speaker 1: saying hey, this is a movie I'm putting out and
Speaker 1: and so that became my film school. I did learn
Speaker 1: because on On Deep Impact, Mimi Leader had, you know,
Speaker 1: she was being treated as as a new director, which
Speaker 1: wasn't first time. I think it was your second film,
Speaker 1: but she had been directing episodic television for many, many years,
Speaker 1: and she had sharpened her her tools, and she had
Speaker 1: tremendous chops for for for a new director because she had,
Speaker 1: you know, much like previous generation she had, she had
Speaker 1: developed her skill set uh on the small screen, so
Speaker 1: that by the time she had the big screen, she
Speaker 1: was she was ready to go. And that wasn't lost
Speaker 1: on me seeing that because she was a very experienced
Speaker 1: hand when she was directing. She was directing me. You
Speaker 1: mentioned Made, Yeah, you went off and did that next,
Speaker 1: And I love that movie so much. When Peter Falk
Speaker 1: explodes about his carpet cleaning Van, I just lose it
Speaker 1: every time. But I think, you know, when do we
Speaker 1: get like a closure to that trilogy that wants to
Speaker 1: be a trilogy? I don't know, you know, And look,
Speaker 1: it was so great. You never know what's going to
Speaker 1: lead to what. And working on Rudy with with Vince
Speaker 1: was meeting him and then coming to town and having
Speaker 1: those events and Spire Swingers and then and then working
Speaker 1: on that one and Made, and then I you know,
Speaker 1: popped into a lot of the films that he was
Speaker 1: putting together and he was producing. So we've you know,
Speaker 1: we've you know, spent our lifetime being fans of one
Speaker 1: another and uh, and like the good news and the
Speaker 1: bad news is that both of us have you know,
Speaker 1: are very busy and have a lot of opportunities, so
Speaker 1: it becomes harder to figure out at time to to
Speaker 1: get together and do that kind of thing. But you know,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm. You know, there's there's nothing like when there's
Speaker 1: a musician that you play well with, and you know,
Speaker 1: like if you see two two jazz performers who were
Speaker 1: good and there's just something about our rhythms and styles
Speaker 1: that when we get on a set together and go
Speaker 1: back and forth, it just as I enjoy it. We
Speaker 1: make each other laugh, We appreciate what he ch other does,
Speaker 1: and you know that was I kind of looked back
Speaker 1: on the days when we were we had you know,
Speaker 1: very little opportunity, and we spent a lot of time
Speaker 1: trying to figure out what to do and doing a
Speaker 1: lot of work on it. Now we're both dads, and
Speaker 1: we're both you know, living in different parts of the
Speaker 1: city and and you know, working on different projects, so
Speaker 1: it becomes harder to schedule of those little passion projects.
Speaker 1: But but I I love catching up with the guy
Speaker 1: and and cheering him on for what he's able to do.
Speaker 1: I haven't yet, but I only heard wonderful things about
Speaker 1: it and wonderful things about his performance, and I look
Speaker 1: forward to it. Um. You know, even though you're you
Speaker 1: work in these big kind of canvases lately, you still
Speaker 1: couldn't go back and do something like Chef And is
Speaker 1: that balance important to you to to still kind of
Speaker 1: stick grounded with Chef. Chef was very important for me
Speaker 1: because Chef was an opportune I didn't know if I
Speaker 1: could write and direct and be in something, if if
Speaker 1: that was more of a young man's game, if I
Speaker 1: still had it in me, because you know, you have
Speaker 1: a lot of enthusiasm and hunger when you're younger and uh,
Speaker 1: and I hadn't done that really for a long time,
Speaker 1: really since made so it's been a long time. And
Speaker 1: just to be inspired enough to write something that you
Speaker 1: felt connected to, and then to be able to enter
Speaker 1: into that chef world and work with Roy Choy the
Speaker 1: Chef who oversaw you know, the culinary aspects of that film,
Speaker 1: and to time with Coke the Cokey food truck, great
Speaker 1: guy and wonderful mentor, and then meeting all the people
Speaker 1: in the chef world. In the Chef the chefs like
Speaker 1: the movie, So now I'm part of that. I'm part
Speaker 1: of that subculture as well. When I walk in, they
Speaker 1: often treat me like as though I'm almost one of them.
Speaker 1: And a lot of dishes I don't order come to
Speaker 1: my table, and uh, they always they always roll out
Speaker 1: the right carpet for me. And I like that. I
Speaker 1: like that group And I've learned a lot about directing
Speaker 1: by working with chefs, because it's not that different. You know,
Speaker 1: you're you're you're bringing a vision that you were on
Speaker 1: a team of people to to bring to your audience
Speaker 1: or your customers, and so much of it about it
Speaker 1: is about consistency and quality control and and innovation, but
Speaker 1: ultimately it's about the end user being satisfied with what
Speaker 1: you're doing. So even if you're on a tremendous creative
Speaker 1: jag and you're having a great time coming up with stuff,
Speaker 1: if if it doesn't land on in the right way
Speaker 1: on the audience and they don't, they don't appreciate the movie,
Speaker 1: they don't get the jokes. It's a it's a it's
Speaker 1: a bit of a hollow victory. It's not a it's
Speaker 1: not the creative processes is a is inexorably connected to
Speaker 1: the way it's received from me. For me, and and
Speaker 1: and and chefs kind of feel the same way. They
Speaker 1: have strong visions, but if they if they don't finish
Speaker 1: what's on their plate, if a customer doesn't the diner
Speaker 1: doesn't like what you've done. Uh, it's it's depressing. You
Speaker 1: want them to not only you want to create something,
Speaker 1: but you want it to be received. That's that's the
Speaker 1: that's closes the full circle. And I found it interesting
Speaker 1: how how they approached that process. And I was able
Speaker 1: to take away a lot in my directing from from
Speaker 1: having that experience. Do you want to do more writing, directing,
Speaker 1: starring kind of things going forward? I would, you know,
Speaker 1: But it doesn't hit me all the time. It's not
Speaker 1: like I could, you know. I'm not prolific in the
Speaker 1: sense that I could. You know. There's always a story
Speaker 1: in my head that I think people want to see.
Speaker 1: And my life has become so specific to the age
Speaker 1: that I am. I just turned fifty and I have kids. Um,
Speaker 1: thank you good clean living. You're very kind. Uh, but um,
Speaker 1: you know, I just I would love to have that
Speaker 1: hit me. And to the point that I have a
Speaker 1: script in my head and I just want to just
Speaker 1: tear into it and write it like I did on Chef.
Speaker 1: But it's only happened to me a few times in
Speaker 1: my life and probably makes them more special then it does.
Speaker 1: It does, and you feel very grateful when it happens,
Speaker 1: because it's not like it's not like a switch you
Speaker 1: could just throw on. Now, everything I do creatively, i'm
Speaker 1: very um you know, to me, it's also of fun.
Speaker 1: If I hadn't done Chef, I don't think I could
Speaker 1: have done jungle Book because Jungle Book was two to
Speaker 1: three years of intensive, concentrated, obsessive um filmmaking and and
Speaker 1: and learning the technical aspects of it and and being
Speaker 1: part of of a of a of a huge group
Speaker 1: of people who are working together to present the singular vision.
Speaker 1: And so I was, and also working with the studio
Speaker 1: that that the property belonged to and that we're protective
Speaker 1: of of the tradition of of jungle buckets, one of
Speaker 1: their you know, you know, dates back to Walt Disney.
Speaker 1: It was his last, the last movie he was alive for.
Speaker 1: You know, I always sweated, I always I always take
Speaker 1: I think that was a valuable lesson of of of
Speaker 1: being there as as Marvel launched, which is that the
Speaker 1: fans are important and it belongs to them, and and
Speaker 1: they'll let you know what they think, and if they
Speaker 1: like it, they will, you know, they will make your
Speaker 1: film is success. And they will proselytize for the film.
Speaker 1: And if they feel that you've let them down, they'll
Speaker 1: voice their disappointment. And so that communication that goes on
Speaker 1: between the fans and the filmmakers and the studios is
Speaker 1: this is this cycle that you know, I first experienced
Speaker 1: in a real way with Comic Con as we as
Speaker 1: we premiered the footage of Iron Man, you know, about
Speaker 1: a year before it came out, and when we saw
Speaker 1: what that they liked what we were doing it, it
Speaker 1: it was like a gust of wind that you know,
Speaker 1: that that just we It just elevated us and motivated us,
Speaker 1: and we knew we were on the right path so
Speaker 1: long before the film ever premiered. We had a sense
Speaker 1: that we were hitting the note right. The casting of Robert,
Speaker 1: the way we were depicting the effects of the flight,
Speaker 1: the character, Uh, they really they really embraced us. And
Speaker 1: I had a similar experience with Jungle Book when we
Speaker 1: at twenty three the first footage, and we knew that
Speaker 1: the people were digging that we were we were paying
Speaker 1: homage to the right aspects of it. We were respectful
Speaker 1: of the material. So you want to you want to
Speaker 1: both give them what they want, but you want to
Speaker 1: surprise them too, And that's always the tricky thing. How
Speaker 1: do you how do you strike that balance when you're
Speaker 1: dealing with property that people are already familiar with and
Speaker 1: have a connection with, And the more emotional the connection is,
Speaker 1: the the you know, the more you know, the more
Speaker 1: you have to consider what what their expectations are and
Speaker 1: making sure that you're you're living up to what they
Speaker 1: hope it will be. And I'm you know, getting ready
Speaker 1: to do Lying King and that one. You know, a
Speaker 1: lot of the people who are adults now grew up
Speaker 1: with that and it's a very and my favorite animated
Speaker 1: movie ever. Actually, I think you're not alone. I think
Speaker 1: there's a lot of people who because it's a it's
Speaker 1: a very powerful, simple, well told mythic story with emotional
Speaker 1: components that deal with subject matter that movies that are
Speaker 1: geared towards kids and families don't often deal with with.
Speaker 1: You know, you're dealing with death, you're dealing with um, exile,
Speaker 1: you're dealing with you know, very deep strong family, family,
Speaker 1: the sense of family, of revenge, of injustice, and then
Speaker 1: just the whole stuff in Hamlet. It's it's it's that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's that and and and I think they really hit
Speaker 1: it just right. But the look and the music, of course,
Speaker 1: it's just just hearing the music just gives you goose bumps.
Speaker 1: And um, it's one of those uh situations where it
Speaker 1: all came together, the art, the story, the studio, the music,
Speaker 1: the culture. You know, everybody was ready and it just
Speaker 1: happened and it and it means a lot to people,
Speaker 1: and so can we you know, there was you know,
Speaker 1: the theater production did very well after the movie did
Speaker 1: very well, and they were not seen as two different
Speaker 1: you know, they they shared u a spirit, but they
Speaker 1: were different interpretations. And and because the story I think
Speaker 1: was so strong. And now now we'll see if we
Speaker 1: could do something that that gives it a live action feel,
Speaker 1: and if that could sit as not something that replaces
Speaker 1: either of them, but but builds upon that legacy and
Speaker 1: reinterprets it using a different medium and different set of tools.
Speaker 1: That's kind of my question, which you know, Jungle Book
Speaker 1: distinguished itself from the original, and in interesting ways, there
Speaker 1: are the ideas flowing as to how to do that
Speaker 1: online King, do you I think with Lion King, you
Speaker 1: have a much um a much tighter story, and a
Speaker 1: much more emotional story their emotional aspects to the first
Speaker 1: up to the original Jungle Book, but you also have
Speaker 1: the source material of the kipling, and live action didn't
Speaker 1: lend itself to um doing a direct transfer of that story,
Speaker 1: so we had to do some exploration while still hitting
Speaker 1: the musical and visual touchdones that people had that had
Speaker 1: been embedded in the memory from the childhoods. We wanted
Speaker 1: to honor that, but we had a lot of latitude.
Speaker 1: I think with Lyon King, you're dealing with something where
Speaker 1: people have grown up seeing it multiple times in the
Speaker 1: age of video, have felt strong connections to it and
Speaker 1: feel very protective of it. And so I think with
Speaker 1: this and and and to be honest with you, the
Speaker 1: story it feels more modern and feels like it it
Speaker 1: holds up today. The original to D animation holds up
Speaker 1: exceptionally well so and so now it's not as distant
Speaker 1: of a memory. I think it is, you know, I
Speaker 1: think years old, but it's still again, it doesn't feel
Speaker 1: like an old movie. And so you have to see
Speaker 1: what the tools have to offer, and you have to
Speaker 1: make sure that you're connecting with the audience and reminding
Speaker 1: them of everything that they love of the original, and
Speaker 1: but yet don't try to replace the original. Try to
Speaker 1: do something where it's an exploration in the technology of
Speaker 1: what it would feel like if this were actually happening
Speaker 1: in real life and live action, and that becomes the challenge.
Speaker 1: And then then the casting. It can be kind of
Speaker 1: tricky because people have their preconceived what they're expecting to hear.
Speaker 1: Share characters sound like like you want to get Belafonte
Speaker 1: in there. Maybe your thoughts are you know, I think
Speaker 1: that casting is probably the most important element of any film,
Speaker 1: especially when you're dealing with something where people have such
Speaker 1: a clear idea of who those people are from having
Speaker 1: seen other versions of it. And so we're you know,
Speaker 1: I'm in discussions with Disney now we're getting into that
Speaker 1: aspect of and I have some strong thoughts and strong
Speaker 1: ideas that unfortunately I can't really share because we haven't
Speaker 1: gone through the process yet. But I think that that's
Speaker 1: the that's kind of your first for for for the
Speaker 1: fans of the original, that's going to be the first
Speaker 1: opportunity for people to see what's the direction and tone
Speaker 1: we're going. And I'm sure everybody's gonna have a lot
Speaker 1: to say about everything, and hopefully they'll be excited by
Speaker 1: was it Robert Gillum who you're talking about? Is man? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just such iconic voices. Yeah, but I look for
Speaker 1: Jones was So you know, it'll be uh, it'll be interesting.
Speaker 1: And it's also interesting to see how the the the
Speaker 1: the musical, which uh, you know, took a different perspective
Speaker 1: on a lot of it, and how that how that
Speaker 1: can inform the process as well. Awesome And then and
Speaker 1: then actual you know, what what it all looks like
Speaker 1: in real life there which is you know, everything has
Speaker 1: been stylized for for the animated version of it and
Speaker 1: for the theater version of it. But with this you
Speaker 1: can really go back to a sense of of naturalism.
Speaker 1: And how could that help, uh, elevate the material as well?
Speaker 1: What could what could the most you know, these very
Speaker 1: exciting compelling technical tools do to give give you know,
Speaker 1: greater resonance to the story speaking of all the technology.
Speaker 1: I mean, I gather that you're a big tech head
Speaker 1: about this kind of stuff. Become one you're down there
Speaker 1: shooting jungle but basically in a warehouse in downtown Los Angeles.
Speaker 1: I think that blows people's minds. You know, Uh, what
Speaker 1: do you think about virtual reality? Is that just involved
Speaker 1: with that too. I'm working with a studio called weaver
Speaker 1: we It's something called Gnomes and Goblins that's available now
Speaker 1: for free on Steam um for the vibe. We had
Speaker 1: used a lot of the same tools in making Jungle Book,
Speaker 1: and to me that you know, the it's a reversal
Speaker 1: of the pipeline. Not to oversimplify things, but motion capture
Speaker 1: and virtual reality use a lot of the same tracking
Speaker 1: tools and the same basic principles. And I actually was
Speaker 1: exposed to a virtual reality through Andy Jones, who is
Speaker 1: the head of animation on Jungle Book, who had been
Speaker 1: working on a There was an experience called the Blue
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've ever seen it. You're on
Speaker 1: the deck of a ship and a big blue whale
Speaker 1: passes you buy and it's pretty overwhelming, and the technology
Speaker 1: has come so far that you're able to feel the
Speaker 1: phenomenon of of what's called presence, and it's a pretty
Speaker 1: accurate term because you really feel like you're experiencing something
Speaker 1: very real, even though you know, you know the resolution
Speaker 1: of it isn't as good as what you'd see in
Speaker 1: the movie theater, the graphic rendering is not photo real
Speaker 1: or even close to it yet. But because of the
Speaker 1: lack of latency, how effective the three D is, the
Speaker 1: sense of parallax, All these things uh contribute accurate tracking,
Speaker 1: All of this contribute to something where parts of your
Speaker 1: brain are thoroughly convinced that you are experiencing something real.
Speaker 1: And so even though you know you're wearing HMD and
Speaker 1: you're not really standing on a cliff, you're hard pressed
Speaker 1: to take that step forward to where you would fall.
Speaker 1: And so to me, it's a very powerful tool. How
Speaker 1: it's being used is still up for discovery because it's
Speaker 1: not quite a movie and it's not quite a game,
Speaker 1: and we're kind of exploring that middle ground that feels
Speaker 1: more akin to lucid dreaming. And I'm just trying to
Speaker 1: innovate things that I would want to do and see
Speaker 1: an experience I don't I don't like the stuff that's
Speaker 1: too scary, But I do love the immersion. I love
Speaker 1: the emotional connection that you could feel two characters and
Speaker 1: your environment and and and ultimately each other through it.
Speaker 1: So it's a it's a very strong technology that I
Speaker 1: don't think is going away, and I think it's it's
Speaker 1: very exciting to be part of the generation that gets
Speaker 1: to create the parameters by which the future generations, you know,
Speaker 1: innovate and tell stories through the technology. Yeah. My curiosity
Speaker 1: as if it can transcend short form, like is there
Speaker 1: really an authorship in long form in the realm of
Speaker 1: virtual reality? And I'm not sure. I think eventually, I think, Look,
Speaker 1: it's always uh, any new technology goes through a cycle
Speaker 1: of growth, and um, you know, movies were nickelodeons and
Speaker 1: they were you know, carnival attractions at first, and spectacles
Speaker 1: and people would jump out of the way of locomotives
Speaker 1: coming at the audience, and and it was it was
Speaker 1: first seen as a as a novelty and then eventually
Speaker 1: a language developed, and then it went from one reelers
Speaker 1: to two reelers to full features and everybody freaked out
Speaker 1: when the guys shot at the screen and that's part
Speaker 1: of you know, and if you think about it, you know,
Speaker 1: that's all one human ago. That's so it's a hundred
Speaker 1: years you know, century, give or take. So you know,
Speaker 1: so much has happened to change with it. And now
Speaker 1: and now there's you know, everything is overlapping with the
Speaker 1: big screen and the small screen and and and all
Speaker 1: of this stuff is traveling around to all different audiences
Speaker 1: in different markets. So it's a there's definitely uh an evolution.
Speaker 1: That's that's in the works where technology is informing storytelling
Speaker 1: and and and and honestly, I really feel that and
Speaker 1: what I learned from really learning about Walt Disney is
Speaker 1: is that it's that marriage between technology and mythic solid
Speaker 1: traditional storytelling. When you can merge those two things, you
Speaker 1: really hit a grace note that was it with films
Speaker 1: like Avatar and Star Wars. And that's when you really
Speaker 1: get it. When you have the the excitement and the
Speaker 1: spectacle of the of the new technologies that completely fool
Speaker 1: the audience um in the tradition of the magicians, and
Speaker 1: then you have these great time honored stories that are
Speaker 1: speaking to something that the mono myth, the shared um,
Speaker 1: the shared mythic stories that seems to be ingrained in us,
Speaker 1: either culturally or just in our DNA. There are certain
Speaker 1: types of stories that every culture uh sparks too, and
Speaker 1: when you can marry the two of them, it becomes
Speaker 1: a way for us to come together. And I like
Speaker 1: the idea of watching something communally in the theater. But
Speaker 1: even when people are watching things at home, there's so
Speaker 1: much discussion on social media that you know, when Stranger
Speaker 1: Things was on, everybody was talking about it becomes a
Speaker 1: cultural reference, even though you may have only been watching
Speaker 1: it with your family. So the communal opportunities of technology
Speaker 1: as it speaks to storytelling, to me, it's really uh,
Speaker 1: that's that's what what excites me. You mentioned Star Wars there.
Speaker 1: I feel like everyone keeps thinking they're gonna hear your
Speaker 1: name attached to one of these projects. Can we expect that?
Speaker 1: What I mean, what not that you would even tell
Speaker 1: me if I have? My dance card is kind of
Speaker 1: full right now. I'm a huge fan, and I you know,
Speaker 1: all the filmmakers who involved with it, I know, and
Speaker 1: I sometimes get little Sometimes they tell me a little
Speaker 1: more than they should. You probably know a lot more
Speaker 1: than I do about what's going on. I still but
Speaker 1: I still want to be a fan. I don't want
Speaker 1: to I don't want to know. I don't want to
Speaker 1: see what's happening behind the curtain. I want to be
Speaker 1: there for to experience it. And one of the nice
Speaker 1: things about being on in the audience seat, I get
Speaker 1: a front row seat. You know, I know all the people,
Speaker 1: and I'm invited to see all the screenings and things
Speaker 1: and and but that's part of what made you know.
Speaker 1: I was an usher in at the Archao Keats and
Speaker 1: flushing back when you know, Return of the Jedi was
Speaker 1: in theaters. So I still have that sense of wonder
Speaker 1: when it comes to that particular brand. And uh, I'm
Speaker 1: so excited by the casting, by the images that I've
Speaker 1: seen the trailers, and I even try not to watch
Speaker 1: the trailers, to be honest with you, because I know
Speaker 1: I'm gonna want to watch it. So why why you know?
Speaker 1: And then why why steal from that experience? It's so
Speaker 1: rare that you get the experience that that we had
Speaker 1: grown up, where you know a little bit about a
Speaker 1: movie and you see it and then it all washes
Speaker 1: over you. Now through marketing and through all of the
Speaker 1: trailers and things. If you're curious about something, you can
Speaker 1: really learn a lot about it. You never really get
Speaker 1: that unadulterated first experience of seeing something. And I try
Speaker 1: to I try to preserve that. You know, whether it's
Speaker 1: not watching, you know what's coming up next week on
Speaker 1: Game of Thrones, or if it's watching, you know a
Speaker 1: new trailer drops. But then sometimes I can't help myself,
Speaker 1: Like a Beauty and the Beast, Beauty and the Beast,
Speaker 1: I'm too curious about what they're doing, So I had
Speaker 1: to had to check that one out. The last thing
Speaker 1: I want to ask, and I just want to talk
Speaker 1: about Swingers end of the story. This year. I watched
Speaker 1: it again a couple of nights ago. Um, I feel
Speaker 1: like there's this subset of nineties independent cinema speaking of
Speaker 1: my generation, how we responded to it. When I saw Swingers,
Speaker 1: that was the first movie where I thought I could
Speaker 1: just straight up make a movie. Yeah, like my my
Speaker 1: story is valid and and that's what's exciting about movies
Speaker 1: like that. And I think something like Friday you could
Speaker 1: include in there, or I would say that I think
Speaker 1: I think Kevin I think Kevin Smith was was made
Speaker 1: us feel that way because clerks had been previous to that,
Speaker 1: and that was even more of an outsider story in
Speaker 1: Jersey Jersey black and White. You know, it was, you know,
Speaker 1: very inexpensive, but a voice. And that's when you kind
Speaker 1: of realized that our generation could Our voice was interesting
Speaker 1: and it was before it was making a lot of
Speaker 1: dough like that voice eventually evolved into I think more
Speaker 1: mainstream comedies. So it actually didn't do very well in
Speaker 1: the theaters. I think I made five million dollars, but
Speaker 1: we all caught up to it on VHS. But we
Speaker 1: well caught up to it, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: And that's that was also a lesson of that moment,
Speaker 1: is that the movies that are appreciated or find an
Speaker 1: audience in the beginning, like Rudy didn't find an audience
Speaker 1: in the beginning, but everybody's seen it now and there's
Speaker 1: something about the significance of the staying power of the
Speaker 1: film and and how many times you could revisit it.
Speaker 1: And to me, that's the real thrill is when I
Speaker 1: still get here from people. Oh I broke up with
Speaker 1: my girlfriend and I was so depressed and I watched
Speaker 1: a movie and helped me get through it. Or seeing
Speaker 1: how people are like introducing their kids to elf. Every year,
Speaker 1: you know, I'll see on on on Twitter, people will
Speaker 1: post a picture there their little kid who's just old
Speaker 1: enough to watch a movie, and this is what they
Speaker 1: choose to share with their kid, and they're just beaming,
Speaker 1: and you see a photograph. And and that was always
Speaker 1: like the dream on that one. And I think that
Speaker 1: there's a sense that when you're making these things, you
Speaker 1: don't know if they're going to disappear. Certainly a lot
Speaker 1: of auteur type filmmakers are they're sitting alone in their
Speaker 1: room lonely. Certainly I was doing writing Swingers, not knowing
Speaker 1: if anybody would ever see it or it would ever
Speaker 1: get made. And how how big of a leap it
Speaker 1: is from that moment when you feel isolated and alone,
Speaker 1: and and writing is a very lonely process. Um it
Speaker 1: really comes down to, you know, unless you're working with
Speaker 1: a partner, but even then it's still it's still very isolating.
Speaker 1: You're kind of working at a vacuum, hoping that eventually
Speaker 1: everybody will see this thing. And so it goes from
Speaker 1: extreme isolation to extreme such an extreme communal experience of
Speaker 1: feeling that connection with people who are connecting to how
Speaker 1: you felt and what you're sharing, what you thought was funny,
Speaker 1: what you felt was you know, inspiring, and and having
Speaker 1: taking that emotional ride together. And I think it feels
Speaker 1: like a point of connection. So you know, if if
Speaker 1: you and I are fans of the same movie, we
Speaker 1: we feel in infinity for one another. And I think
Speaker 1: with social media now people are very um you know,
Speaker 1: part of part of their identity is what they like
Speaker 1: and what they what they choose to share and post.
Speaker 1: And and now you get to meet people that you
Speaker 1: might not live in the same town as if and
Speaker 1: if you both like playing a certain game or watching
Speaker 1: a certain movie. Now now you've developed a community that
Speaker 1: wasn't really available when I was younger. And and you know,
Speaker 1: and and if you're the guy who likes Grsese movies
Speaker 1: and I'm a guy Likescrsesean movies, we could hang out
Speaker 1: and talk about that stuff. And you know, and that
Speaker 1: was sort of capturing the beginnings of that back when
Speaker 1: we're sitting around in the diner talking about what movies
Speaker 1: were fans of. And now you could do it on
Speaker 1: on such a grand scale. And uh, and but I'm glad,
Speaker 1: I'm glad it you know, it still means something to you.
Speaker 1: And I'm glad that it's held up so long, so
Speaker 1: many years, because it felt very of the moment at
Speaker 1: the time. And I think it's it's a great story,
Speaker 1: great characters, but I think as a work of cinema too,
Speaker 1: it's kind of doesn't get its due because, you know,
Speaker 1: I just think of that final dance sequence. It's so
Speaker 1: charmingly lit, like it's a beautiful looking film. The grain
Speaker 1: and the lighting credit goes to goes to Doug Lyman,
Speaker 1: and he was a cinematographer and the cameraman and the
Speaker 1: director on that movie. It was actually which was a
Speaker 1: night stock that was thirty five millimeter that was very sensitive, um,
Speaker 1: and we were able to shoot wide open with not
Speaker 1: a lot of lighting and uh and he, you know,
Speaker 1: he was able to in a very limited amount of time.
Speaker 1: We shot that less than a month, and we were
Speaker 1: using short ends. So what you do is, you know,
Speaker 1: you could buy like a full mag, a thousand footer
Speaker 1: which would run like ten minutes, you know, and then
Speaker 1: and then and then what would happen is on a
Speaker 1: real movie, who would be using the big the big mags.
Speaker 1: They're little short ends left over and they'd wrap that
Speaker 1: up and sell it. So if we had a four
Speaker 1: hundred foot mag like a four minute minute mag, that
Speaker 1: was crazy. We were using an aton, a very noisy,
Speaker 1: little French camera that it was tiny, so you could
Speaker 1: you can put the camera places that well, now you
Speaker 1: can with with digital, but back then you were dealing
Speaker 1: with If you were dealing with that with thirty five
Speaker 1: millimeter film, you're generally dealing with a big old you know,
Speaker 1: Panavision or airy. That was you know, it was heavy
Speaker 1: and big and and blimped for sound. But he was
Speaker 1: able to do put the camera places where it felt
Speaker 1: a lot more natural, more documentary style, and uh, and
Speaker 1: we may do with what we had, and it was
Speaker 1: it was exciting and and we didn't know if anybody
Speaker 1: would like it. It wasn't accepted into the festivals we
Speaker 1: had submitted and and then eventually people bid on it
Speaker 1: and you know, the audience saw it, sparked to it.
Speaker 1: Mirramax bought it, and then then we started going to festivals.
Speaker 1: I Tell your Ride and Venice and that was a
Speaker 1: thrill to take that ride and be a part of
Speaker 1: the independent film culture and understand that and get to
Speaker 1: experience that aspect of of our tradition, which is very
Speaker 1: different from how it is now. But I've i've I've
Speaker 1: been at it long enough to have been an editing
Speaker 1: room with people cutting on a flatbed with film, and
Speaker 1: been on sets where you know, it was just everything
Speaker 1: was was analog and celluloid, and then work my way
Speaker 1: through to seeing the beginnings of the genesis and the
Speaker 1: beginnings of digital, and then and then seeing where it's
Speaker 1: going now and as you mentioned, virtual reality and the
Speaker 1: level of visual effects that we have available to us,
Speaker 1: and the this this influx of all these talented artists
Speaker 1: and animators that are being trained by working either facilities
Speaker 1: or going to school for it, coming and people from
Speaker 1: all around the world, because it takes hundreds and hundreds
Speaker 1: of artists to make a movie like Jungle Book. And
Speaker 1: to be able to work with those talented people and
Speaker 1: and figure out what combination not just of cast or
Speaker 1: department heads, but also artists and and all the support
Speaker 1: people who are both technical and artistic. It's exciting. It
Speaker 1: feels like I'm I'm part of something that's new and
Speaker 1: growing and offers all sorts of opportunities for as I
Speaker 1: said before, telling the types of stories that you weren't
Speaker 1: able to do in a convincing way not long ago.
Speaker 1: It's a fantastic career so far behind. Thank you man,
Speaker 1: and I look forward to Lion King. I'm very optimistic
Speaker 1: for that and thank you. And also I got to
Speaker 1: act in a in in a Spider Man, so that
Speaker 1: was that was a blast too. So I get to do.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm very fortunate it, you know, I'm I'm
Speaker 1: so grateful to be able to still go to other
Speaker 1: people's sets and play and sit in my chair and
Speaker 1: eCraft service and do a couple of funny takes and
Speaker 1: work with people that I like working with, and so
Speaker 1: it's really been. It's it's it's so nice to be
Speaker 1: able to have that variety. There we go, but I'm bumped.
Speaker 1: There we go. On that note, thank you sir again
Speaker 1: for coming on the show. Really a prech and good
Speaker 1: luck going for talking and thanks listening to your podcast.
Speaker 1: Thanks man, you know it's been going great. Keep up
Speaker 1: a good work. Thanks for listening everyone. Remember to subscribe
Speaker 1: and check back next week when I'll be talking defenses
Speaker 1: Star Viola Davis. You've been listening to playback at Variety