Speaker 1: Hi, Betrayal listeners, it's under a Gunning. We're off this
Speaker 1: week for Thanksgiving, but we'll be back next week. This week,
Speaker 1: we wanted to re release a listener favorite, Bernie Brown's story.
Speaker 1: We originally released it in two parts, but for this
Speaker 1: re release, we're combining both parts. You can hear his
Speaker 1: full story all at once. We'll be back next week
Speaker 1: and in the meantime, Happy Thanksgiving for those celebrating. You're
Speaker 1: so grateful for all of you listeners. Thank you for everything. So,
Speaker 1: without further ado, here's Bernie's story.
Speaker 2: So we sat down and he was like, he doesn't
Speaker 2: believe in NDA, so he's not going to ask for
Speaker 2: one of them. And I was just like, what the
Speaker 2: hell is going on here? Like what is happening? And
Speaker 2: it was like, Oh, do you know what? I think?
Speaker 2: I need to tell you a little bit about my
Speaker 2: family history.
Speaker 1: I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, a show about
Speaker 1: the people we trust the most and the deceptions that
Speaker 1: change everything. Today I want to introduce you to Bernie Brown.
Speaker 2: My entire life's being paycheck to paycheck. I'm just very
Speaker 2: clever with it. I've cut my own hair for the
Speaker 2: past twenty years and colored it because I'm like, well,
Speaker 2: if somebody else can do that, why can't I do that.
Speaker 1: While growing up in London, Bernie experienced a difficult upbringing.
Speaker 2: My childhood was very rough. My mum was extremely strong,
Speaker 2: but she was going through massive domestic violence with my
Speaker 2: dad at one point, very very seriously, we're talking like hospitalization.
Speaker 1: Bernie witnessed his dad's violence at a young age.
Speaker 2: I do remember one time we'll go into the kitchen
Speaker 2: and he had her up by a knife. I actually
Speaker 2: still remember to this day the layout of the room.
Speaker 2: I remember it very very vividly. She would be the
Speaker 2: punching bag to make sure that we were never harmed.
Speaker 1: His mom was a pillar of strength.
Speaker 2: My mother. Everything I do and the person that I
Speaker 2: am now is because of who she was and what
Speaker 2: she showed me.
Speaker 1: What Bernie remembers most about his mom was how she
Speaker 1: always made everyone feel at home.
Speaker 2: She was always very house proud, always cleaning. When I
Speaker 2: hit school, my friends would come over to see her.
Speaker 2: She was very much an open door. The door was
Speaker 2: never locked, which was probably unsafe, but anyone knocked on
Speaker 2: the door, anyone who needed help, regardless of whether she
Speaker 2: had it or not, it would always be it yes,
Speaker 2: and she was very very well known for that.
Speaker 1: When Bernie came out as gay, my.
Speaker 2: Family were lovely with I was very, very very lucky
Speaker 2: that enabled me to actually be proud and celebrate it.
Speaker 1: He began to explore the queer scene in London.
Speaker 2: When you first come out as being gay, you've got
Speaker 2: the big clubs, you know, the Jyre Storia, which has
Speaker 2: closed down now. I spent many a happy even in there.
Speaker 2: Shall we say.
Speaker 1: Bernie was living his best life. It was a fun
Speaker 1: and exciting time, but deep down he was looking for
Speaker 1: real partnership.
Speaker 2: I really wanted to find somebody to settle down with.
Speaker 2: I just wanted that one on one connection. I don't
Speaker 2: remember actually witnessing a stable relationship, and I think that's
Speaker 2: why I so desperately needed one.
Speaker 1: At age eighteen, Bernie found what he was looking for.
Speaker 2: I met my first real boyfriend at the time in London.
Speaker 2: We moved to Newcastle, we bought a house, we had
Speaker 2: two dogs and two cars, and we had that life.
Speaker 2: I must have been twenty two twenty three, and it
Speaker 2: wasn't legal in the UK to get married at that point,
Speaker 2: so what we did we threw a party and we
Speaker 2: legally changed our names, so we kind of had our
Speaker 2: little version of a wedding and it was just going amazingly.
Speaker 1: He had everything he wanted and it was great for
Speaker 1: about eight years, but.
Speaker 2: Then it just didn't work. When that failed. We were
Speaker 2: actually very close friends for about ten years after I
Speaker 2: was best man at his wedding.
Speaker 1: After their relationship ended, Bernie's mother's health started to decline.
Speaker 1: At the age of forty six, she died of heart failure.
Speaker 2: We had that time to say goodbye, which rarely do
Speaker 2: people get. I could actually process it there and then,
Speaker 2: and we both said what we felt and you know
Speaker 2: what she wanted from us in life.
Speaker 1: Now Bernie felt truly out on his own. He was
Speaker 1: newly single and starting over in this city.
Speaker 2: I was in London. Of course I had flings and
Speaker 2: you know all of them that come with it. But
Speaker 2: every single time I would never see somebody or sleep
Speaker 2: with somebody and instantly just disregard. There would always be
Speaker 2: an element of could disco further.
Speaker 1: He was a romantic, but Bernie knew he had to
Speaker 1: prioritize himself and his career. After years of working in retail,
Speaker 1: Bernie wanted to start a brand of his own, so
Speaker 1: he started saving everything he could to start his own
Speaker 1: clothing brand.
Speaker 2: I've never never had money at all, but I've always
Speaker 2: worked very very hard for the money that I do have.
Speaker 2: I've always wanted to work for myself, not answer to anyone.
Speaker 2: So I started a clothing T shirt business, like my
Speaker 2: own prints and selling them online. And I was like,
Speaker 2: it's my time. Let me build something that's my own.
Speaker 1: Even though Bernie was working a lot, he still wanted
Speaker 1: to have a good time.
Speaker 2: I don't need the relationship at the minute, but you know,
Speaker 2: you need the physical side of it.
Speaker 1: So he went on Grinder, the dating app for gay men.
Speaker 2: So I was using it happily. I'd actually met some
Speaker 2: quite good friends. Now. I actually do still remember the
Speaker 2: message come through because I had a glass of wine
Speaker 2: and I was sat with a glass of wine and
Speaker 2: I got the famous I remember that there was something intriguing.
Speaker 2: It was very well written and not the usual first
Speaker 2: opening message that you get on that kind of app.
Speaker 2: In a forward. Do you know a nice breath, fresh air.
Speaker 2: There's nothing on her. I'll just entertain it.
Speaker 1: His name was Leo, and Bernie had never seen him
Speaker 1: on the app.
Speaker 2: Before, I've not seen you around here before, and it
Speaker 2: was like, no, I live in central London by Hyde Park,
Speaker 2: just around the corner from Harrod to this, that and
Speaker 2: the other. Instantly I was like, well hold on there
Speaker 2: like twenty million pounds.
Speaker 1: Bernie didn't know anyone with a house in Hyde Park.
Speaker 1: That was a completely different world.
Speaker 2: Bearing in mind it's grinder. You instantly just think, okay,
Speaker 2: all right, this fictional whatever, so you entertain and I
Speaker 2: was like, oh, lovely fine.
Speaker 1: Leo was quick to ask him on a date.
Speaker 2: He was like, I'm not big talking on these apps.
Speaker 2: I'm around the corner. Why didn't you come over? Nothing untoward.
Speaker 2: He was like, just you know, let me cook you
Speaker 2: some dinner and we'll just have a glass of wine.
Speaker 2: And I then was like, oh, this is very sweet.
Speaker 2: He's very well spoke.
Speaker 1: In addition to his apartment in London, Leo also had
Speaker 1: a luxury trailer, an airstream that he kept at a
Speaker 1: high end campground.
Speaker 2: They've got their own unique gardens and plots and all
Speaker 2: of these it's beautiful. So I was like, okay, this
Speaker 2: is nice.
Speaker 1: And there's this.
Speaker 2: Big, beautiful white range Rover that was sat next to it.
Speaker 2: He was very articulate, and he did speak Queen's English.
Speaker 2: It's very smooth, that pronounces every word as intended by
Speaker 2: her Majesty, the Queen. I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: I need to like you know, I need to up
Speaker 2: it a notch.
Speaker 1: Leo made a delicious dinner.
Speaker 2: Instantly I was taken in just his charm. I've never
Speaker 2: met anybody with that smooth charm that isn't patronizing. It
Speaker 2: just was focused on me and we had an amazing meal.
Speaker 1: Bernie was really enjoying himself. He liked talking to Leo
Speaker 1: and they bonded over cars.
Speaker 2: He went through his picture gallery and he had all
Speaker 2: of these cars. We had the Bentley's, we had Aston Martin's,
Speaker 2: we had quite a few range Rovers, some old classics,
Speaker 2: and he was just flicking through and he was like,
Speaker 2: this is my pride and joy I love cars and
Speaker 2: this and the other.
Speaker 1: The pictures also showed that Leo had serious money, a
Speaker 1: lot of it.
Speaker 2: You can kind of tell where somebody's got old money
Speaker 2: or new money. New money is very much the designer
Speaker 2: head to toe, and all of this old money is
Speaker 2: you can't really tell if they've got money they're the chinos,
Speaker 2: the nice shirt, the neck tie, that kind and that's
Speaker 2: how he was.
Speaker 1: But Bernie didn't understand why he asked him to come
Speaker 1: to his trailer instead of his London apartment.
Speaker 2: At that point, he just said he was from a
Speaker 2: very influential family within the UK and because of his family,
Speaker 2: he can't be out, he can't be gay, so to
Speaker 2: escape all of the craziness, he needs somewhere to get away.
Speaker 2: And he said nobody knows about this caravan, like his
Speaker 2: family don't know, security doesn't know. So for him, it's
Speaker 2: just his little getaway to just be himself. So I
Speaker 2: was like, okay, fine, but at that point I didn't
Speaker 2: know who his family was.
Speaker 1: Bernie ended up staying and hanging out with Leo for hours.
Speaker 2: It got dark, it must have been around about eleven
Speaker 2: to twelve o'clock at night. It was like, oh, let's
Speaker 2: go inside, let's go in the caravan, and we sat
Speaker 2: in the sofa area and just had a conversation where
Speaker 2: there's something very weird that happened. It was like, jumned,
Speaker 2: if I ask you to do something, can you just
Speaker 2: undress in front of me. I won't touch I won't
Speaker 2: do anything like that buried in wait. I probably had
Speaker 2: a bottle of wine. So I did and I got
Speaker 2: naked and he didn't and it was like just turn
Speaker 2: around for me and that was it. And I was like, okay,
Speaker 2: you can get dressed now. I was like, what was
Speaker 2: all that about. It was just like I've not been
Speaker 2: with many men, so I'm a little bit nervous. Instantly,
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, that's so sweet.
Speaker 1: They kissed good night and Bernie got a taxi home.
Speaker 2: Next morning, I woke up and of course there was
Speaker 2: the most beautiful message that was on my phone and
Speaker 2: he was like, look, I really want to see you again.
Speaker 2: I can't get you out of my mind, this and
Speaker 2: the other, and we just had normal conversation through the day.
Speaker 2: I just started feeling a bit warm. I was just like,
Speaker 2: is this really happening.
Speaker 1: They decided on a second date.
Speaker 2: So again I went over. We had something to eat.
Speaker 2: The conversation was effortless, the subjects, it was just it
Speaker 2: was so smooth. It was as if I'd known him
Speaker 2: for years. It was so easy. And then we started
Speaker 2: kissing and this, that and the other, and then he
Speaker 2: I remember he started coughing and I was like oh,
Speaker 2: is everything okay? And it was like, yeah, it's fine.
Speaker 2: I'm just I'm very, very nervous. So I was like, listen,
Speaker 2: let's just sit, take it slow, and you know, see
Speaker 2: where we go. Nothing has to happen. And then we
Speaker 2: went back to it and with things were happening, and
Speaker 2: then he kind of had a coughing fit and he
Speaker 2: actually got really serious that. I was like, I'll get
Speaker 2: you a glass of water. I got in a glass
Speaker 2: of water and he would not stop coughing. So I
Speaker 2: was like, I'm just going to step outside because by
Speaker 2: this point he was bringing things up. It was not
Speaker 2: romantic at all. And I was outside for about about
Speaker 2: ten minutes and all you could hear was this hacking up.
Speaker 2: And at that point I stood there and I was
Speaker 2: like what do I do? Do I go do? I
Speaker 2: just like leave? But then my car keys are in there.
Speaker 2: This is really awkward. So then he called me back
Speaker 2: in and we had this conversation and he just apologized,
Speaker 2: and that's when he said that he's got a few
Speaker 2: health issues and it's like he's getting them checked up
Speaker 2: and it's nothing too serious to worry about at the minute.
Speaker 2: And he was like so apologetic I was like, honestly,
Speaker 2: it's fine, let's just watch something. Calm down. I was like,
Speaker 2: it's generally not a big deal.
Speaker 1: After Leo recovered from his coughing that Bernie stayed and
Speaker 1: they ended up having a really lovely evening.
Speaker 2: We had a few dates at that point. It was like,
Speaker 2: can I come to yours? So I was like, do
Speaker 2: you know what, Yes, come to mine. I will cook
Speaker 2: us a nice meal. And then that's the first time
Speaker 2: that he came round and he brought the Bentley. This
Speaker 2: Bentley Continental white thing pulled up and I was like,
Speaker 2: what the hell is this.
Speaker 1: Bernie had seen the pictures of Leo's cars, but he
Speaker 1: was skeptical that Leo really owned all of them.
Speaker 2: All the way up until that point, and that was
Speaker 2: a few weeks in. I took everything with a pinch
Speaker 2: of salt. And then I think that was the first
Speaker 2: time when the Bentley pulled up, I'm like, but hold on,
Speaker 2: if this is true.
Speaker 1: The Bentley was impressive.
Speaker 2: I'd never even been close to a Bentley jorna ride,
Speaker 2: so I was like, yes, I was like, come on.
Speaker 2: So I got in and we went for a drive,
Speaker 2: and oh my god, it goes fast. Beautiful car.
Speaker 1: Later that night, when they were deep in conversation.
Speaker 2: It slipped in and I was like, oh, I've got
Speaker 2: to go down to the Castle today for whatever event
Speaker 2: I have to. I'm being dragged down and I was
Speaker 2: like Castle, what's this? And he was like, oh, do
Speaker 2: you know what? I think? I need to tell you
Speaker 2: a little bit about my family history.
Speaker 1: Bernie was really enjoying getting to know Leo, a guy
Speaker 1: he met on Grinder. He knew Leo came from money,
Speaker 1: and after a few dates, he confided in Bernie about
Speaker 1: his family's backstory.
Speaker 2: So we sat down and he was like, right, he
Speaker 2: doesn't believe in NDA, so he's not going to ask
Speaker 2: for one of them. And I was just like, what
Speaker 2: the hell is going on here?
Speaker 1: Like what is happening a non disclosure agreement? Bernie wasn't following,
Speaker 1: but then.
Speaker 2: He opened up with do you know who the Norfolks are?
Speaker 2: And I said no, I have no idea who that is.
Speaker 2: So then he went through the family history. So it
Speaker 2: was like, my dad's brother is the Duke of Norfolk.
Speaker 2: I didn't know who that was. He was like, the
Speaker 2: Duke of Norfolk is the highest peerage in the UK
Speaker 2: outside of the royal family, so it's literally the royal
Speaker 2: family then the estate of the Duke of Norfolk. They're
Speaker 2: bloodline royals, they're just not direct in line to the front. Obviously.
Speaker 2: I had a little look on Google and you can
Speaker 2: see on his profile who the Duke of Norfolk and
Speaker 2: the immense responsibility that he has within Britain. So I
Speaker 2: was like, okay, fine, so that's your dad's brother. He
Speaker 2: was like yeah.
Speaker 1: And Leo's title.
Speaker 2: He was Viscount Norfolk.
Speaker 1: The second and the castle he'd mentioned offhand was a
Speaker 1: Rundel Castle, a thousand year old architectural masterpiece in the
Speaker 1: south of England.
Speaker 2: And it was like, let me show you something, because
Speaker 2: at that point he'd brung an over andy bag and
Speaker 2: he had this cartier box, quite slim, and opened it.
Speaker 2: It was a crest with flower spikes all around. It
Speaker 2: was a circular shape with the Saint George's cross in
Speaker 2: the middle, then had some inscriptions on it and it
Speaker 2: had the House of Norfolk and fitz Allen, and he said,
Speaker 2: we have to carry this everywhere we go, badges and
Speaker 2: emblems and crests, because if somebody passes they need it
Speaker 2: instantly for a sign of respect and all this. I
Speaker 2: held it. It was so heavy and I was just like,
Speaker 2: what is going on in my life? Ride this minute
Speaker 2: in time? You know, I've got somebody here that is
Speaker 2: amazing and like so into me. But at the same time,
Speaker 2: also with the Bentley out front and I'm sitting here
Speaker 2: holding this big royal crest.
Speaker 1: Bernie couldn't wrap his mind around it.
Speaker 2: And I was like, I don't know what to say.
Speaker 2: And it was like, it's fine, It's like, just ask
Speaker 2: any questions that you have, and I was like, I
Speaker 2: literally don't have questions, Like my mind is blank.
Speaker 1: This was really big. Leo came from a very important
Speaker 1: and complicated world. Bernie didn't know what it would mean
Speaker 1: for his relationship with Leo.
Speaker 2: He was like, I want to keep us separate. You
Speaker 2: know that I have to do this with you. I
Speaker 2: want to do and he was like, until we figure
Speaker 2: out how or if we can mix this, let's just
Speaker 2: try it. So I was like, look, I'm fine with that.
Speaker 2: I'm not here and I never have been impressed by money. Obviously,
Speaker 2: I'm impressed by the Bentley, but I'm not here for
Speaker 2: anything other than you.
Speaker 1: This was a pivotal moment the conversation deepened their connection.
Speaker 2: That was then the first day that he had opened
Speaker 2: up and he trusted me. He trusted me with this
Speaker 2: secret and his family and his line. I think that
Speaker 2: was the first time that I was like, yeah, he
Speaker 2: really likes me.
Speaker 1: Leo let Bernie into his inner circle, but he made
Speaker 1: it clear privacy and discretion was critical.
Speaker 2: The first few months after that, it was amazing. He
Speaker 2: really genuinely wanted to see me happy and to take
Speaker 2: care of me.
Speaker 1: Bernie and Leo were spending more and more time with
Speaker 1: each other.
Speaker 2: He pretty much moved in. I think that was about
Speaker 2: a month and a half in. I gave McKey and
Speaker 2: I literally just said, you know, use it whenever you want.
Speaker 1: Leo never missed a moment to make Bernie feel loved.
Speaker 2: If I was on a late shift, I would finish
Speaker 2: ten eleven o'clock at night, and then he would be
Speaker 2: there with dinner with flowers. At that minute in time,
Speaker 2: I had felt the happiest, settled and loved. Then I
Speaker 2: would probably say bar my mom than I had ever
Speaker 2: felt in my life.
Speaker 1: Even though Leo came from a wealthy background, he worked
Speaker 1: hard and had a career. He was passionate about.
Speaker 2: He knew about watches. He was a horologist. He had
Speaker 2: been to Switzerland, studied at the best places. He absolutely
Speaker 2: knew everything. He had space to do a little studio.
Speaker 2: He was taking all of these Rolexes apart and in
Speaker 2: front of me putting them back together. And then he
Speaker 2: was like, I'm licensed by Rolex to do that.
Speaker 1: It was a very competitive certification. But luxury watches were
Speaker 1: Leo's life.
Speaker 2: He always had Rolex flip on his arm.
Speaker 1: Within a few months, they were spending almost every night together.
Speaker 1: They were exclusive. Bernie was starting to think that Leo
Speaker 1: could be the one. There was only one big concern,
Speaker 1: and that was Leo's health. It was there from the beginning,
Speaker 1: but Bernie was seeing his symptoms worsen. Leo wasn't just coughing,
Speaker 1: he was now throwing up.
Speaker 2: He went silent for I want to say two days. Now.
Speaker 2: By that point, please realize that two days, when I
Speaker 2: am now fully into this, fully into the emotion, is
Speaker 2: like two weeks.
Speaker 1: During those two days, Bernie was desperate to hear from Leo.
Speaker 1: While he waited, his mind began to spin.
Speaker 2: What have I done? Have I said something? I went
Speaker 2: back through WhatsApps and this is only two days of
Speaker 2: no conversation. I went through WhatsApps to find out what
Speaker 2: I've said that he could possibly take offense with anyway.
Speaker 2: He eventually came back and basically apologized for not being
Speaker 2: in contact with me over the two days.
Speaker 1: Leo had a good reason for being out of touch.
Speaker 1: He'd been in the hospital.
Speaker 2: He was like, I can't say anything over for the phone,
Speaker 2: but I just need to get out of London. My
Speaker 2: family going into a panic and trying to keep this maintained,
Speaker 2: you know, make sure that it doesn't go to any press.
Speaker 2: He was like, can I just come to yourselves? Like absolutely.
Speaker 2: At that point, he told me that he was suffering
Speaker 2: from brain cancer and they've given him a year to live,
Speaker 2: and obviously he had a lot of process and that
Speaker 2: he needed to do.
Speaker 1: Bernie was devastated. He wanted to be there for Leo
Speaker 1: any way he could.
Speaker 2: I'm just going to sit here and be quiet. You
Speaker 2: talk to me, you vent me, you get your frustrations out,
Speaker 2: anything that is in your mind. I was like, you
Speaker 2: literally throw them at me. This is what I'm here
Speaker 2: to do. And he did, and he got upset, He
Speaker 2: got angry. He was crying and then he got to
Speaker 2: the US conversation and he said, I can't really see
Speaker 2: you anymore.
Speaker 1: Leo didn't want to be a burden.
Speaker 2: He was like, look, I can't promise you anything. If
Speaker 2: this is how my life is going to end, there's
Speaker 2: bits that may not be pretty. And I was like, look,
Speaker 2: I really don't care. I was like, if I have
Speaker 2: to be a complete secret, even if we have to
Speaker 2: break up, just I want to be your friend. It
Speaker 2: wasn't about any of the sex or the relationship for me.
Speaker 2: It was this person that was in front of me.
Speaker 1: To Bernie's surprise, Leo even brought up as well.
Speaker 2: He was like, obviously he can't change that because if
Speaker 2: he put my name in there, they all questions will
Speaker 2: come up with who. And I was like, I really
Speaker 2: do not care. I was like, I literally do not
Speaker 2: care about any of that. I was like, if you
Speaker 2: get to that point, I will be here as much
Speaker 2: as you need me to.
Speaker 1: Leo couldn't come out to his family, so in order
Speaker 1: for Bernie to stay in his life, he suggested Bernie
Speaker 1: pretend to be his assistant or driver. It was the
Speaker 1: kind of arrangement Bernie wouldn't have agreed to under normal circumstances,
Speaker 1: but he was willing to do anything to make sure
Speaker 1: he could care for Leo.
Speaker 2: So he agreed, and I meant it one hundred percent,
Speaker 2: not a second guess in my mind.
Speaker 1: So Bernie immediately focused on helping Leo make sense of
Speaker 1: his diagnosis.
Speaker 2: I went online. I researched the hell out of it,
Speaker 2: down to all different methods, and I mean I did
Speaker 2: go crazy with it, to be honest. I was there
Speaker 2: for at least an entire twenty four hours googling research
Speaker 2: and what this meant, experimental drugs, and like, I just
Speaker 2: went to town with everything that I could find out.
Speaker 1: But Leo had already accepted that he didn't have much
Speaker 1: time left.
Speaker 2: He was talking about that he might not actually go
Speaker 2: for chemo because he just wants to just end it
Speaker 2: on his terms in Switzerland. That was a conversation that
Speaker 2: we had. And then that's when we went onto a
Speaker 2: conversation about I think I need to start living my
Speaker 2: life while I've got it, and I was like, right, okay,
Speaker 2: so let's do that.
Speaker 1: For Leo, living his life to the fullest meant finally
Speaker 1: launching his own watch restoration business that would be his legacy.
Speaker 1: He had a collection of incredible luxury watches and he
Speaker 1: couldn't take them with him.
Speaker 2: One day he said to me, I've got all of
Speaker 2: these watches, I might just start selling them because I
Speaker 2: kind of like swap in a buy and trade on
Speaker 2: this site. And it's like I kind of want to
Speaker 2: build something. So instantly I kicked in. I was like,
Speaker 2: I can build you a website. Let's register this company,
Speaker 2: and I did. We had quite a few business meetings
Speaker 2: on how the logo is going to look, what it's called,
Speaker 2: setting up all of the social media for it. And
Speaker 2: I sat on my little photoshop and I'd done the
Speaker 2: logo and the company was called The Vintage Crown.
Speaker 1: Leo wanted Bernie to list all of his watches and
Speaker 1: post them online, so he brought his entire collection to
Speaker 1: Bernie's house.
Speaker 2: We came up and he literally had about two three
Speaker 2: trunks of watches. I mean, I've got all the pictures
Speaker 2: on my phone. Still. There was countless rolelexes, there was
Speaker 2: the tet Feliks, there was Van Kleef and arpoles. They
Speaker 2: were stunning. There must have been i'd say close to
Speaker 2: one hundred one hundred watches in my lounge on this
Speaker 2: table and there was this very very old Rolex. The glass,
Speaker 2: the watch face was quite rounded.
Speaker 1: Bernie picked up the watch. It was heavy and ornate.
Speaker 2: It was like, this is probably the most expensive watch
Speaker 2: that I own. And I was like, well, how much
Speaker 2: is it worth? It was like you check it out,
Speaker 2: So it's like, go on the Rolex website, turned the
Speaker 2: watch over. I typed in the cerial number and it
Speaker 2: came in at one point two million. At that point,
Speaker 2: I probably had aboute hundred pounds in my bank account,
Speaker 2: so I'm like one point two million. It was just
Speaker 2: in to think of the money that was sat right
Speaker 2: in front of me.
Speaker 1: Leo had a staggering collection of luxury watches, and as
Speaker 1: Bernie helped Leo launch his new watch business, Bernie got
Speaker 1: a taste of that world. Like when Bernie came with
Speaker 1: him to run errands at high end London department stores, and.
Speaker 2: Whenever we walked into Harold's, they knew of him. They
Speaker 2: addressed him by his name, talking about previous purchases that
Speaker 2: he had made, and full conversations.
Speaker 1: He even asked Bernie to go to Selfridges, another luxury
Speaker 1: department store in London, for an exclusive event.
Speaker 2: It's a private party of VIP, but it would be
Speaker 2: quite nice if you can come with me just to
Speaker 2: experience a bit of that lifestyle. And I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: like absolutely, yeah, I'll come out. So we got dressed,
Speaker 2: made our way into central London, walk into Selfridges and
Speaker 2: it was red carpet all of that.
Speaker 1: This event was a big deal and Leo was a
Speaker 1: big deal there. Everyone greeted him by name and immediately
Speaker 1: people were vying for his attention.
Speaker 2: So he went into this private VIP area through the door.
Speaker 1: Leo was there to look at a specific.
Speaker 2: Watch, and then he sent me a message and was like, Okay,
Speaker 2: we're kind of done with the finance side, do you
Speaker 2: want to come in? So I was like absolutely, So
Speaker 2: I went in and it was a private room with
Speaker 2: a head of European sales. The room was gorgeous. We
Speaker 2: had or derves that were laid out and the watches
Speaker 2: were laid out in front of me. These ridiculous I
Speaker 2: mean the price of a house, these watches in front
Speaker 2: of us, and it was just this woman, Leo and me.
Speaker 1: Leo bought two watches that day as gifts for family members.
Speaker 1: With Bernie's help, Leo's watch business got off the ground,
Speaker 1: and as a thank you, he would let Bernie borrow
Speaker 1: some of the pieces.
Speaker 2: If we'd go for dinner, he'd give me a Rolex
Speaker 2: or a Fotech Philippin. He then called one day and
Speaker 2: he said, this Rolex has come my way for me
Speaker 2: to recondition and to sell. It's just a Sa Mariner.
Speaker 2: I've got quite a few of them anyway. But he
Speaker 2: was like, I thought of you.
Speaker 1: Leo was making him an offer.
Speaker 2: He was like, look, you buy it off of me
Speaker 2: for twenty thousand. I will recondition it, I'll make it
Speaker 2: look as good as new, i will polish it, I
Speaker 2: will have it back up and it's usually worth about
Speaker 2: thirty to forty thousand.
Speaker 1: Twenty grand up front. It would be a huge investment
Speaker 1: for Bernie, and then Leo would resell it at a
Speaker 1: profit of at least ten thousand pounds.
Speaker 2: Of course, it would be amazing. That extra ten ground
Speaker 2: for me at this minute in time would open up doors.
Speaker 2: I've never had just a ten thousand pound sum in
Speaker 2: my account.
Speaker 1: But Bernie didn't have twenty thousand pounds just lying around.
Speaker 2: And I was all right. I was like at the
Speaker 2: first I just don't have anywhere near that money whatsoever. Literally,
Speaker 2: I think for my entire life it's been paycheck to paycheck.
Speaker 2: I'm just very clever with it. Nowhere do I have
Speaker 2: that kind of money.
Speaker 1: Leo had an idea, what about Bernie's clothing business. It
Speaker 1: wasn't as successful as the watch sales, so.
Speaker 2: He said, well the clothes was like, you know, it's
Speaker 2: taking too much of your time. Is it really doing anything?
Speaker 2: And I was like, it's getting a bit tiring, And
Speaker 2: so I said, look, why don't you just sell sell
Speaker 2: all of the clothes just in bulk. Somebody will buy it,
Speaker 2: sell it, sell the website off, like, sell the business,
Speaker 2: get this watch, and then use that lump sum for
Speaker 2: how whatever you want to do your next project.
Speaker 1: Bernie had a few ideas for new businesses. He wanted
Speaker 1: to start. The investment in the watch represented a new chapter.
Speaker 1: So he started crunching the numbers.
Speaker 2: I was like, look, I can take this money out
Speaker 2: of all of my credit cards. But if I do
Speaker 2: that with my bills my wage in retail will it
Speaker 2: won't even cover half of all them repayments in one
Speaker 2: go by maxing out them cars. So he said, look,
Speaker 2: once I've got the money, it will take about a
Speaker 2: week for the watch to get here, so I will
Speaker 2: recondition it, I'll get it sent to you. You'll sell
Speaker 2: it before you next get paid if I get it.
Speaker 2: But I'd never do anything to hurt you. This is
Speaker 2: for your benefit. Look, if it's too much, then you
Speaker 2: know what, Let's just not do it. Let's just just
Speaker 2: forget about it completely. And by that point I was like,
Speaker 2: I'd already kind of imagined if I sell all of
Speaker 2: this stuff and I take from these credit cards, by
Speaker 2: the end of it, I could have ten to twenty pounds,
Speaker 2: which is just mine to do with. I was like, right, okay,
Speaker 2: I trust him one hundred percent. Let's just do this.
Speaker 1: Bernie was in so.
Speaker 2: I sold the website off and then I think that
Speaker 2: only got about half of it, maybe a little bit more.
Speaker 2: And then I did have a few credit cards, so
Speaker 2: I got rid of the final bits of the clothes,
Speaker 2: took out from every credit card that I had, maxed
Speaker 2: it out, and gave it him.
Speaker 1: Bernie got fifteen thousand pounds from maxed out credit cards.
Speaker 1: For the rest of the money, he took out an
Speaker 1: incredibly high interest loan.
Speaker 2: These payday loans, the interest rate is seventy nine percent
Speaker 2: per month, and that's more than what you've borrowed.
Speaker 1: Bernie was putting everything on the line. He sent Leo
Speaker 1: the twenty thousand and Leo ordered the watch.
Speaker 2: It'd been delivered to his Hyde Park address.
Speaker 1: But it was the week of Christmas and Leo wasn't home.
Speaker 1: He was at the castle.
Speaker 2: He has responsibilities around the UK, so he was up
Speaker 2: there doing official business and he will get to it.
Speaker 1: With the holidays. It could be a week before Leo
Speaker 1: got to the watch. That meant weeks before they could
Speaker 1: resell it.
Speaker 2: That's when I started panicking because at that point there
Speaker 2: is absolutely no way that I am going to be
Speaker 2: able to cover that next payment. And I told him
Speaker 2: that I am getting nervous because I know the tsunami
Speaker 2: that's coming if this isn't paid.
Speaker 1: But Leo was calm. He handled deals like this all
Speaker 1: the time.
Speaker 2: He just kept reassuring me, saying, look, there's a little
Speaker 2: bit of a delay. I've got a buyer. I've got
Speaker 2: somebody that's interested. As soon as I can get my
Speaker 2: hands down to this watch. It will take me one
Speaker 2: day to recondition it because it's in very good quality,
Speaker 2: and I will literally have a buyer for you. Within
Speaker 2: twenty four hours.
Speaker 1: After that, Leo seemed to change. The loving calls and
Speaker 1: texts started dwindling.
Speaker 2: The communication with me and him went very sparse. The
Speaker 2: morning messages, which by this point had constantly continued. If
Speaker 2: I had even to the point if he was staying
Speaker 2: at mine and I woke up before in the morning
Speaker 2: to go to work, when he woke up, I would
Speaker 2: still get that morning message.
Speaker 1: And now those texts stopped coming. Their connections started to
Speaker 1: feel less like a romantic relationship and more like a
Speaker 1: business partnership.
Speaker 2: It went from loving and just amazing conversations to all
Speaker 2: about the watch.
Speaker 1: For Bernie, this cold shoulder really hurt. Obviously he was
Speaker 1: concerned about the watch, but that wasn't what he really
Speaker 1: cared about.
Speaker 2: I am fully in depth, I am fully in love
Speaker 2: with him.
Speaker 1: In seven months, Leo had become the center point of
Speaker 1: his life.
Speaker 2: He was my world at that point, and there was
Speaker 2: nothing else that I was concentrated on. I'd stopped talking
Speaker 2: to my friends, even my best friend. I'd stopped talking
Speaker 2: to my family, and all of a sudden, this person
Speaker 2: is completely disregarding me. I was panicking. Then I was
Speaker 2: then going back to that state, what have I done?
Speaker 2: What have I said? I know it's Christmas. I don't
Speaker 2: want to contact him too much because I know that
Speaker 2: he's working and he's probably with people with his family.
Speaker 2: But at the same time, I'm panicking because I'm not
Speaker 2: getting that response. Then comes Christmas Eve and he's kind
Speaker 2: of goes silent a little bit, and then I get
Speaker 2: Christmas Eve. I get a few messages, very cold, and
Speaker 2: it was like, I'm with people, I can't talk. I
Speaker 2: was like, okay, I just wanted to wish you a
Speaker 2: merry Christmas.
Speaker 1: It was important for Leo to spend time with his
Speaker 1: family because he had so little time left. Maybe the
Speaker 1: reality of his diagnosis was finally hitting him. Bernie understood
Speaker 1: why Leo might be pulling away, but it's still stung.
Speaker 2: Next morning, I did actually get quite a nice message.
Speaker 2: It's just like Merry Christmas, handsome and blah blah blah
Speaker 2: blah blah. I instantly my mood. I was uplifted. I
Speaker 2: was like, oh, it's okay, what's your plans for today?
Speaker 2: It was I went straight into that puppy mode like
Speaker 2: he could do no wrong, and he said, I'm with
Speaker 2: my family all day. I won't be able to contact
Speaker 2: you for the next two days. I was like, okay,
Speaker 2: that's absolutely fine. I get it. It's Christmas, you are
Speaker 2: supposed to spend that with your family.
Speaker 1: Bernie spent that Christmas alone waiting for a message from Leo.
Speaker 1: But that day Bernie noticed something strange. It seemed like
Speaker 1: Leo was actually spending Christmas Day with another man, someone
Speaker 1: Bernie had never seen before.
Speaker 2: There was a picture on his WhatsApp update and it
Speaker 2: was him, but there was somebody else in the background.
Speaker 2: There was this guy just walking towards the camera, looking
Speaker 2: directly in the camera as if he was going to
Speaker 2: say something, and it was the inside of a church,
Speaker 2: and it just bucked me.
Speaker 1: For a few days, Bernie stared at the photo, practically
Speaker 1: memorizing every detail.
Speaker 2: Anyway, so on the twenty seventh feet message, I was like, sorry,
Speaker 2: I've not been I've been with family this and the other.
Speaker 2: I was like, okay, how was your Christmas? To check
Speaker 2: up so much? And he was like no, we just
Speaker 2: really stayed around the castle and then we didn't really
Speaker 2: do anything. I was like, oh, what about the church?
Speaker 2: I was like, what church? And then it was just
Speaker 2: like I was like, oh, I just saw your update
Speaker 2: on your WhatsApp and it was a picture of a church.
Speaker 2: And I was like, I don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker 2: You didn't see anything.
Speaker 1: But Bernie had looked at the photo over and over.
Speaker 1: He knew what he saw, and.
Speaker 2: I was like, no, it was I didn't do an update.
Speaker 2: That was no update. And then he got into such
Speaker 2: denial he was adamant and quite nasty with it that
Speaker 2: I completely made it up. I did not see it.
Speaker 2: There was nothing on his profile.
Speaker 1: It was the first time Leo had acted like this.
Speaker 1: He was defensive and angry over something so small. He
Speaker 1: knew it meant Leo might be hiding something. So Bernie
Speaker 1: pulled back a bit.
Speaker 2: I kind of slowed down message in him. I didn't
Speaker 2: get a call again quite late at night, and it's
Speaker 2: like I've just had a massive argument with my family.
Speaker 1: On the other end of the phone, Leo was hysterical.
Speaker 2: And he's like, Bernie, I can't take this. I can't
Speaker 2: take this life anymore, the stress that I've been under.
Speaker 2: I just don't like my family. I don't want to
Speaker 2: do this anymore. Can you come and get me? So,
Speaker 2: of course I've then said yes instantly, where are you
Speaker 2: calm down, stay on the phone with me.
Speaker 1: Leo sent an address. It was a five hour drive
Speaker 1: from London, so Bernie got in the car and stayed
Speaker 1: on the phone with Leo while he drove through the
Speaker 1: night to meet him. At two am, he picked up
Speaker 1: Leo and brought them to a hotel.
Speaker 2: We stayed the night. We had a long conversation about
Speaker 2: his stress levels, and he's sorry that he's been distant
Speaker 2: and he doesn't how to cope with this, as well
Speaker 2: as his diagnosis. And at the end of this he'll
Speaker 2: get the watch. He's going to go down, he'll get it,
Speaker 2: and if he hasn't got it by this point, he
Speaker 2: will give me the money and then sell it on himself.
Speaker 2: And I just felt seeing and he was in tears.
Speaker 2: He went asleep and I was stroking his hair. It
Speaker 2: was as if this guy was broken, broken with life.
Speaker 1: There in the hotel room, Bernie finally fell close to
Speaker 1: Leo again. Leo needed him, and Bernie would do anything
Speaker 1: to make him happy. The next morning, Leo seemed renewed,
Speaker 1: back to his old self. He confessed to Bernie that
Speaker 1: he had been hiding something. Now he was finally ready
Speaker 1: to talk about it.
Speaker 2: It's like, so, I've got a serious question that I
Speaker 2: need to ask you, and I've been thinking about this
Speaker 2: with everything that's been going on. And I was like okay,
Speaker 2: and he was like, I've had enough of this entire
Speaker 2: life that I have to do and I'm done with it.
Speaker 2: I want to move away. And he was like, I
Speaker 2: want to move somewhere in Scotland. Would you come with me?
Speaker 2: And I was like sorry, I was like what. I
Speaker 2: was like, I've seen this house. I've been thinking about
Speaker 2: this for a long time and I was going to
Speaker 2: go on my own and that's why I've been distant
Speaker 2: because I didn't know what I was going to do.
Speaker 2: But I want you to come with me.
Speaker 1: Leo was dead serious. He was ready to put in
Speaker 1: an offer on a house because.
Speaker 2: I've already contacted the estate agent. This house was a
Speaker 2: full on castle in the Scottish Islands. When you think
Speaker 2: the quintessential English castle, it was exactly that.
Speaker 1: They looked at the listing together and started imagining a
Speaker 1: new life there. They wouldn't have to hide from Leo's
Speaker 1: family or the press. Bernie could take care of Leo
Speaker 1: as his cancer progressed and whatever came next, they could
Speaker 1: face it together.
Speaker 2: It's like, I just wanted to be me and you
Speaker 2: and I was like yes. And it's difficult now to
Speaker 2: really kind of explain exactly how it felt, because his
Speaker 2: world at certain points starts to crumble and he has
Speaker 2: to get what he can do and run to create
Speaker 2: another life for himself. In the end, it was all
Speaker 2: a life.
Speaker 1: Leo had been looking to buy a castle in the
Speaker 1: Scottish countryside where he could live out the rest of
Speaker 1: his life the way he wanted to with Bernie.
Speaker 2: And he was like, I want to put an offer
Speaker 2: in and move within the month. I'm just done with
Speaker 2: all of this. I'm like, do you know what, We've
Speaker 2: got one life, Let's do it.
Speaker 1: Leo drove them back to London. It was a five
Speaker 1: hour drive and they spent every minute of it planning
Speaker 1: their new life.
Speaker 2: We had designed this entire life, down to the jobs
Speaker 2: we would do, the businesses we would build.
Speaker 1: On their drive, Leo's grandparents called. They were nearby, so
Speaker 1: Leo decided to meet up with them and spend the
Speaker 1: rest of the day with his grandparents. Bernie could drive
Speaker 1: the Bentley back to London, so halfway through their trip,
Speaker 1: Leo pulled off at a gas station where his grandparents
Speaker 1: were waiting. It was the first time Bernie had seen
Speaker 1: anyone in Leo's family. Leo asked Bernie to act like
Speaker 1: they were just friends.
Speaker 2: He went over to this couple they must have been
Speaker 2: in their late sixties, and his granddad went to go
Speaker 2: to the bathroom. So I was like, okay, I need
Speaker 2: to toilet anyway, So I was like, I'll go, and
Speaker 2: then I went in and then he came in after me,
Speaker 2: so I was like okay.
Speaker 1: On the way out of the bathroom, Bernie struck up
Speaker 1: a conversation with Leo's granddad and.
Speaker 2: He was like, oh, well, we live in sus That's
Speaker 2: where the castle was.
Speaker 1: They chatted about life in Sussex, then headed back to
Speaker 1: their cars. Leo went with his grandparents and Bernie drove
Speaker 1: alone back to London. Bernie was excited about starting his
Speaker 1: new life in Scotland, but his financial stress about the
Speaker 1: watch was mounting. It wouldn't be ready to resell in
Speaker 1: time for Bernie's next loan payment.
Speaker 2: I'm panicking now. I'd missed one direct debit. February's was
Speaker 2: coming up, and it still was not happening.
Speaker 1: As the weeks went on, Bernie kept asking his boyfriend
Speaker 1: for an update on the watch.
Speaker 2: The watch is being almost dangled. It's like, oh, I'll
Speaker 2: bring it up, can I I'll come up to yours.
Speaker 2: I was like, okay, fine, I'll bring the watch up.
Speaker 2: He'd get to the house. No watch, Oh I forgot it.
Speaker 2: I didn't go home yet. For whatever reason, the watch
Speaker 2: would always either be forgotten or once the cleaner accidentally
Speaker 2: moved it and it was lost in the house somewhere,
Speaker 2: so he needs to go back and look for it.
Speaker 1: It was getting absurd that Leo couldn't get the watch
Speaker 1: sorted out. Sure there was a lot happening in Leo's life,
Speaker 1: but waiting this long was affecting Bernie's.
Speaker 2: There was something inside that I was questioning a lot more,
Speaker 2: but I was still hooked. I still agreed to go
Speaker 2: to Scotland with him.
Speaker 1: Just weeks before, Leo had needed Bernie to drive through
Speaker 1: the night to be there for him. Leo showed him
Speaker 1: the house he was putting an offer on. Now Bernie
Speaker 1: wasn't even getting a text or a call back for days.
Speaker 2: The gas lighting started. We'd have this call, for instance,
Speaker 2: and what are you doing today. Let's have a call tonight. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: And then we'd have a call arrange something, and then
Speaker 2: he would be like, we didn't arrange it. I was like,
Speaker 2: well we did, because you know, I put it here,
Speaker 2: I put it in my diary. I put it. No,
Speaker 2: we didn't have that conversation.
Speaker 1: Bernie knew that Leo isolated when he was stressed about
Speaker 1: his cancer or his family. Bernie wondered if things had
Speaker 1: gotten worse, but all the worrying was starting to take
Speaker 1: a toll on his own health.
Speaker 2: End of January, February and beginning of March was and
Speaker 2: still is, to a degree a blur. I got into
Speaker 2: the worst state of mind. I had to take time
Speaker 2: off of work for depression. I got massively depressed. I
Speaker 2: lost so much weight I didn't eat.
Speaker 1: Bernie knew something was wrong, and he started spiraling.
Speaker 2: Of course, like anyone, I went straight into his seeing
Speaker 2: somebody else mode, somebody else is on the scene, and
Speaker 2: I went into that whole whirlwind. I did then do
Speaker 2: something cheap because I was like, I can't do this normal,
Speaker 2: I literally cannot do this anymore.
Speaker 1: With Leo across the country, Bernie got an idea.
Speaker 2: Do you know what, I think? I should download Grinder again.
Speaker 2: And with Grinder you can change location and search for
Speaker 2: profiles within that location.
Speaker 1: So Bernie created a fake Grinder profile and set it
Speaker 1: to Leo's location.
Speaker 2: Now I knew his type, so I found a decent
Speaker 2: looking ginger guy, put that on my profile, and I
Speaker 2: spent a good day at the location looking through profiles
Speaker 2: that didn't have pictures on Lo and behold, he found
Speaker 2: my profile.
Speaker 1: Leo sent the first message, so we're just talking.
Speaker 2: I'm like, what do you do is I'm a horologist,
Speaker 2: you know, I deal with watches, And he went straight
Speaker 2: into you and I'm a part of the Howard family,
Speaker 2: and then he sent me pictures it was him.
Speaker 1: At the same time, Leo was talking to fake Bernie
Speaker 1: on Grinder, he was avoiding real Bernie's texts.
Speaker 2: He would reply to this person for literally about an hour,
Speaker 2: but I'm getting no reply. So I'm like, do you
Speaker 2: know what I'm done? Now? That's it. I need to
Speaker 2: get this watch and I need to get it soon.
Speaker 2: So I did actually confront him with it, and I
Speaker 2: was like, I know you've been speaking to people, and
Speaker 2: I sent him a screenshot of the profile, and of
Speaker 2: course he was like, how dare you try putting it
Speaker 2: on me? And I was like, I didn't do anything,
Speaker 2: and I was like, you have no right and went
Speaker 2: off on one and I'm like, do you know what,
Speaker 2: it's absolutely fine, just give me the watch. That's when
Speaker 2: he turned nasty. I was like, you're not getting the watch.
Speaker 2: You don't deserve the watch.
Speaker 1: Regardless of Leo's royal status or cancer diagnosis. Bernie wasn't
Speaker 1: going to allow someone to speak to him that way.
Speaker 1: He hung up. Then Leo started blowing up his phone.
Speaker 2: You know, I really love you and all of this,
Speaker 2: and what about Scotland.
Speaker 1: Bernie told him he wasn't coming to Scotland. Their relationship
Speaker 1: was over. The only thing he wanted from Leo was
Speaker 1: the watch.
Speaker 2: So he's like, look, I'm going to bring the watch.
Speaker 2: It's finally ready. I was like, oh my god, I'm
Speaker 2: actually going to get this watch now, and he was like,
Speaker 2: I'm going to bring it down.
Speaker 1: They set a time and place to meet.
Speaker 2: He was like, are you're going to be okay seeing me?
Speaker 2: You know it may be a strain, and I'm like, listen,
Speaker 2: I'm sure I'm going to be fine. I just just
Speaker 2: make sure you bring the watch turns up. No watch.
Speaker 1: That was the last time they ever spoke.
Speaker 2: I said enough is enough. I'm worth more than this,
Speaker 2: and I blocked his number. I had just been like,
Speaker 2: I'm never getting that watch. I need to deal with
Speaker 2: what I can, and this is the position that I'm in.
Speaker 1: Bernie says he was a shell of himself. Over the
Speaker 1: course of nine months, his entire life had been rearranged.
Speaker 1: All of his savings were gone, he had taken out
Speaker 1: loans and maxed out every credit card he had. It
Speaker 1: left Bernie in a dark place.
Speaker 2: My best friends literally descended on my house and were like,
Speaker 2: we've never seen you like this, and we need to
Speaker 2: pick it up. If I didn't have my friends around
Speaker 2: me at the time, I don't know if I would
Speaker 2: actually be here to this day. I genuinely, genuinely.
Speaker 1: Believe that Bernie's friend supported him emotionally, but he was
Speaker 1: facing his financial crisis alone.
Speaker 2: I had to just bow and say I can't afford it. Default,
Speaker 2: and my credit score at one point went from the
Speaker 2: highest it had ever been straight down to zero. I'd
Speaker 2: never even seen zero on a credit score before I
Speaker 2: was working in retail, and I had all this debt,
Speaker 2: and the debts that were coming out on a monthly
Speaker 2: basis because of everything that happened was higher than my
Speaker 2: entire pay let alone, when you take away bills and
Speaker 2: utilities and all of that.
Speaker 1: Bernie was overwhelmed with shame. He was at risk of
Speaker 1: getting his car repossessed or his wages garnished. He was
Speaker 1: able to make a payment plan, but in the meantime
Speaker 1: he had very little money to live on.
Speaker 2: He didn't take an obscene amount of money from me
Speaker 2: monetary wise, but what he did do was absolutely wipe
Speaker 2: me out. At one point, I didn't have the money
Speaker 2: to go to the shop to buy food. The monetary
Speaker 2: amount for me, twenty thousand could have easily been five million.
Speaker 2: It was all that I had to my name to survive.
Speaker 1: Twenty thousand pounds was a drop in the bucket for Leo,
Speaker 1: after all, his family lived in a historic castle, he
Speaker 1: drove a Bentley. But twenty thousand pounds was everything to Bernie,
Speaker 1: and Leo knew that.
Speaker 2: I've reminded him time and again. He knew exactly what
Speaker 2: my financial background was, what my current financial situation was.
Speaker 2: He knew about all of that, but he still pushed
Speaker 2: to take them credit cards. He knew all of that
Speaker 2: was coming, and I reminded him many times every single day,
Speaker 2: almost that this is hitting. He absolutely did not care.
Speaker 1: Slowly, Bernie came to terms with his financial reality. He
Speaker 1: continued leaning on his friends for emotional support. That's when
Speaker 1: one of his friends said something he hadn't considered before.
Speaker 1: This was theft he'd been robbed.
Speaker 2: She was like, he's going to carry on doing it
Speaker 2: to other people until somebody actually puts the stop to it.
Speaker 2: At that point, I decided that actually I will contact
Speaker 2: the police because this isn't right.
Speaker 1: Bernie walked into the police station and filed a report.
Speaker 2: They did take it so seriously. I gave everything I
Speaker 2: had to them, and they had absolutely no idea who
Speaker 2: this person was.
Speaker 1: According to the police database, Leo Howard didn't exist.
Speaker 2: I emailed Arundel Castle, which is the official residence of
Speaker 2: the Duke of Norfolk, and there was absolutely no record
Speaker 2: of Leo Howard, Leo Bose Howard, or absolutely anything. So
Speaker 2: then I started doing my own research, but there was
Speaker 2: absolutely no trace.
Speaker 1: Bernie knew the VIN numbers to Leo's range, Rover and Bentley.
Speaker 2: All of the car registration numbers had completely been erased,
Speaker 2: which is very hard to do. I don't know how
Speaker 2: that's possible.
Speaker 1: The VIN numbers weren't listed on any database. It was
Speaker 1: like the cars never existed. But Bernie remembered riding in
Speaker 1: those cars, driving those cars. It was all so he
Speaker 1: was starting to wonder what was even real.
Speaker 2: It was as if I had completely imagined the entire year,
Speaker 2: completely imagined it, because this person just did not exist.
Speaker 1: Leo had vanished into thin air. Even the police had
Speaker 1: hit a dead end.
Speaker 2: The police could not recognize his picture. They had to
Speaker 2: just close the investigation. It must have been a good
Speaker 2: year later and I get a call when it comes
Speaker 2: up and it's the police officer that was originally dealing
Speaker 2: with the case. Then I answered, and there was a
Speaker 2: nice of tears, you know, how are you? And then
Speaker 2: he said, do you watch Channel four? And I said,
Speaker 2: to be honest, no, And he said, right, okay, there's
Speaker 2: this documentary that's just been shown on Channel four, and
Speaker 2: from that I've been given a case. And he said,
Speaker 2: and everything that's been described in the case and on
Speaker 2: the documentary is almost identical to my story.
Speaker 1: Bernie had no idea that across the country. Other people
Speaker 1: had been reporting a very similar crime to the police.
Speaker 1: A broader case was developing. In fact, the story was
Speaker 1: already out as a true crime documentary. It was about
Speaker 1: a prolific and highly manipulative scam artist operating all over
Speaker 1: the UK. The detective calling wanted to know if Bernie
Speaker 1: recognized the man at the center of it.
Speaker 2: He said, can you just google and have a look.
Speaker 2: As soon as he said that, I had that sinking feeling.
Speaker 2: My heart dropped to the ground. I knew it would
Speaker 2: be him. My hands started shaking and my brain went
Speaker 2: completely dead on just how to google something by manager.
Speaker 2: I got there and it was his face.
Speaker 1: A year after Bernie first went to the police, he
Speaker 1: got a call from a detective. They'd linked his report
Speaker 1: to a serial fraudster, someone who'd been conning men and
Speaker 1: women across the UK with the same mix of charm,
Speaker 1: money and elaborate lies.
Speaker 2: There was a lot of press around it, and I
Speaker 2: broke down. I absolutely broke down in tears.
Speaker 1: The story had exploded. Leo's face was all over the news.
Speaker 1: After Bernie got over the initial shock, a new feeling
Speaker 1: flooded him.
Speaker 2: The wave of relief. Now I have proof that it happens.
Speaker 2: Because bear in mind, at that point, the only person
Speaker 2: who had ever met him was my best friend. We
Speaker 2: went out for one night. Apart from that, he didn't
Speaker 2: want to meet anyone. He didn't want to be photographed
Speaker 2: anyone that I told this story to. There was always,
Speaker 2: i'm sure, an element of doubt because it was so
Speaker 2: extraordinary to happen to me or to anyone. When I
Speaker 2: saw this, it was that feeling, that overwhelming, almost joyous
Speaker 2: feeling of I told you this did happen.
Speaker 1: There were dozens of articles. Bernie clicked on one about
Speaker 1: a woman who discovered her fiance was a fraud. He
Speaker 1: built a five year relationship in order to scam her
Speaker 1: out of thirty thousand pounds.
Speaker 2: I read the article, and everything that happened to me,
Speaker 2: it happened to her.
Speaker 1: Bernie knew that the documentary might hold answers to as
Speaker 1: many unanswered questions about Leo.
Speaker 2: We sat down and we watched it, and as soon
Speaker 2: as I press play, it starts with his face again.
Speaker 2: I got that sinking feeling. It was surreal scene.
Speaker 1: After seeing Bernie realized he'd lived the same exact moments
Speaker 1: with the same con man. The luxury watch business, a scam,
Speaker 1: the cancer diagnosis fake.
Speaker 2: I'm heightened at that point, and the Bentley came up,
Speaker 2: and I was like, that's that was the Bentley and
Speaker 2: the watch that I was handling, and the watch that
Speaker 2: I was supposed to be buying was actually in the documentary,
Speaker 2: just even little parts of the story. I was like, Yes,
Speaker 2: he told me.
Speaker 1: That, even though it was someone else's story, it was
Speaker 1: like watching his own true crime documentary. Andy learned Leo
Speaker 1: had a dozen aliases.
Speaker 2: After the documentary, I did get emotional because I think
Speaker 2: that then sunk in exactly the severity of what was happening.
Speaker 2: I was just a number at that point. Straight Away
Speaker 2: I found the woman in the documentary on social media
Speaker 2: and connected, and I remember the first message was like,
Speaker 2: you don't know me. I've just seen your documentary. And
Speaker 2: I met him such and such date. She came back
Speaker 2: and we had a few telephone conversations.
Speaker 1: They had so much in common. This other victim helped
Speaker 1: Bernie fill in the gaps in his knowledge and piece
Speaker 1: together a timeline. Most shocking of all, he learned.
Speaker 2: Three weeks before he had messaged me, he had actually
Speaker 2: absconded from prison. He was serving a sentence for fraud
Speaker 2: and he was on the run when he met me.
Speaker 1: Looking back, this explained something about Leo's behavior, how he
Speaker 1: was always nervous around the police.
Speaker 2: He never really liked the police. He was kind of
Speaker 2: scared of the police, to the point he would wait
Speaker 2: around the corney if there was police cars from driving past.
Speaker 2: He was scared.
Speaker 1: When Bernie met Leo, he wasn't in that campground because
Speaker 1: it was the only place he could be himself. He
Speaker 1: was there because he was in hiding. Leo had escaped
Speaker 1: while he was serving a five year prison sentence for
Speaker 1: defrauding another victim, and there were many more. He had
Speaker 1: victims across England.
Speaker 2: There was me and one other person in the north
Speaker 2: of London. All the other victims were in the south
Speaker 2: of England, in Kent in Sussex. The person that was
Speaker 2: in the documentary was in the Isle of Wight when
Speaker 2: he escaped from prison. He had then obviously traveled and
Speaker 2: he was in hiding.
Speaker 1: What was so chilling to Bernie was that the.
Speaker 2: Time the documentary was being filmed was when I was
Speaker 2: with him.
Speaker 1: And Bernie wasn't the only person Leo was scamming while
Speaker 1: he was on the run. Remember Leo's grandparents, who Bernie
Speaker 1: met at the gas station.
Speaker 2: I told the police my story and I said, look,
Speaker 2: I came into contact with his nana grandad. They're like, no,
Speaker 2: that was another victim. I was like, wow, he was
Speaker 2: doing exactly the same to them.
Speaker 1: If Leo stayed behind bars, many people wouldn't have been victimized.
Speaker 1: He was a fugitive. The police were looking for him,
Speaker 1: but the problem was the pose weren't as savvy as Leo.
Speaker 2: Now, we do have a national database which comes up,
Speaker 2: but they didn't put him on that. So all the
Speaker 2: time that I was with him, there were actually campaigns
Speaker 2: to find this person. However, the police don't talk to
Speaker 2: each other over here, and when I had raised my case,
Speaker 2: they had no idea who it was until the documentary
Speaker 2: came out.
Speaker 1: That's when police stations across the country started connecting the dots.
Speaker 2: Channel four had done so many press releases that it
Speaker 2: really got the national scope, and I think we're on
Speaker 2: about ten people that have come forward and raised a case.
Speaker 2: Because of the heightened press and because all of this
Speaker 2: was going around, he decided to hand himself in.
Speaker 1: Leo was sent back to prison and Bernie hoped justice
Speaker 1: would finally be served.
Speaker 2: But he still qualified for early release. The mind boggles.
Speaker 2: But that's where we are, and that's what we have
Speaker 2: to deal with, and that's what we are currently facing.
Speaker 1: Through this whole process, Bernie was able to get a
Speaker 1: true understanding of who this man really was. He even
Speaker 1: heard from people who knew the real Leo before he
Speaker 1: became a criminal.
Speaker 2: I've had so many messages over social media and TikTok
Speaker 2: where people have gone to school with him, and he
Speaker 2: used to make up stories to get people in trouble.
Speaker 2: He naturally gravitated towards fraud from a very very early age.
Speaker 2: His background is so far from the royal family it's unbelievable.
Speaker 2: From my knowledge. He is Polish heritage, very broken upbringing,
Speaker 2: and he, in all intents and purposes, created his own
Speaker 2: system to survive. And his system was to fraudulently gain
Speaker 2: money from anywhere he could to create the life that
Speaker 2: he saw himself and that he wanted.
Speaker 1: And the life he wanted was one where he was wealthy,
Speaker 1: powerful and important.
Speaker 2: He wanted to be part of the royal family setting
Speaker 2: and he believed that he was destined for more. He
Speaker 2: had created his own reality, and I think the longer
Speaker 2: he believed it, the more he believed it.
Speaker 1: Creating a string of fraudulent identities was more than just
Speaker 1: a dream of being rich. It was pathological.
Speaker 2: Every time he created this persona this person, he threw
Speaker 2: himself so hard into it that he then started to
Speaker 2: believe that he was this person. And I do think
Speaker 2: there's mental issues there.
Speaker 3: It's been three years since he met Leo, and Bernie
Speaker 3: still questions Leo's true motivations.
Speaker 2: Was his intention to outright going and commit fraud on
Speaker 2: every single person that he encountered, or was it that
Speaker 2: his world at certain points starts to crumble and he
Speaker 2: has to get what he can do and run to
Speaker 2: create another life for himself, that other life that he's
Speaker 2: built up that is then crumbling.
Speaker 1: He got back to their first date when he was
Speaker 1: asked to take off his clothes. Was that a test?
Speaker 1: Was it blackmail?
Speaker 2: I've tried going back and be like, what did happen?
Speaker 2: Why did it happen? I have absolutely no idea, but
Speaker 2: I know it comes down to control.
Speaker 1: After having his heart broken and his own financial stability destroyed,
Speaker 1: Bernie learned who Leo truly was. He was left picking
Speaker 1: up the pieces in the aftermath.
Speaker 2: I don't know whether this is still my subconscious emotional tie,
Speaker 2: but I think there is an element that he had
Speaker 2: gone through so much and then he met me, and
Speaker 2: he had said many times that he was gay, he
Speaker 2: just couldn't be out. And I do believe that there's
Speaker 2: an element that I wasn't his typical target, and he
Speaker 2: wasn't there initially for money, and I do believe at
Speaker 2: some point he did get emotionally connected, because going after
Speaker 2: me for money wouldn't have made any sense.
Speaker 1: Bernie still wonders if that dream of going to Scotland
Speaker 1: together was a genuine offer to run away together.
Speaker 2: At some point, I do believe that he thought that
Speaker 2: he could get away from it all and escape with
Speaker 2: me and live that life that he had in his
Speaker 2: mind at the time. And I think potentially once it
Speaker 2: started getting a bit too real with me, that's when
Speaker 2: he went into what I would call default mode. And
Speaker 2: that's when the watch came. Because the watch conversation came
Speaker 2: very very late in the day, and then it ended
Speaker 2: very very quick because he had to have an new
Speaker 2: supply and obviously he couldn't leave empty handed.
Speaker 1: Bernie's right. Leo never left empty handed. In fact, he
Speaker 1: was running a major fraud scheme and the watches were
Speaker 1: at the center of it.
Speaker 2: Some businesses have come forward and said that that person
Speaker 2: had sold them a fake watch, and bear in mind
Speaker 2: these are big companies. They know how to evaluate watches.
Speaker 1: As more information came out, he learned that Leo defrauded
Speaker 1: Herod's department store out of a half a million pounds.
Speaker 1: It was all part of Leo's scam.
Speaker 2: He was on top of his game with regards to
Speaker 2: watches that he knew how to see a fake, a
Speaker 2: very good fake, and improve it to the level that
Speaker 2: it was a very convincing actual piece. He scammed a
Speaker 2: million pounds out of Harold's Like, you are a different level,
Speaker 2: a completely different level when you can do that. The
Speaker 2: knowledge that Leo had on watches, watch brands, the mechanics,
Speaker 2: the mechanical workings, There's no doubt in my mind he
Speaker 2: has studied watches for a long time.
Speaker 1: Leo also knew cars. He scammed Bentley dealerships and financial institutions.
Speaker 1: He always had multiple scams going at once.
Speaker 2: Absolutely the mind boggles. I do not understand that.
Speaker 1: In February twenty twenty five, Leo was sentenced to ten
Speaker 1: months in prison for having absconded from his original fraud
Speaker 1: conviction and five year sentence. It's unclear whether he will
Speaker 1: be criminally charged with respect to his conduct. While he
Speaker 1: was on the run, Bernie took to TikTok, where he
Speaker 1: shared his story. Through that experience, he has found language
Speaker 1: to describe Leo and what he did.
Speaker 2: TikTok was instrumental in me healing and starting that healing process.
Speaker 2: Somebody had commented on one of my posts and I
Speaker 2: went onto their profile and they talk about narcissist and
Speaker 2: narcissistic behavior, everything from the signs to the results of
Speaker 2: what it actually does to you for the long term,
Speaker 2: and instantly I was like, this is exactly what he
Speaker 2: was doing. With the amount of gaslighting, love bombing, breadcrumbing,
Speaker 2: you get so heavily sucked in that it does actually
Speaker 2: change your makeup and it changes the way you think.
Speaker 2: If you said in six months time, somebody is going
Speaker 2: to be in your life and you are going to
Speaker 2: be hanging on every word. You're not going to speak
Speaker 2: to your friends, you're not going to speak to your family,
Speaker 2: You're going to doubt everything that you say, I would
Speaker 2: literally have a laugh and say, carry on drinking. It
Speaker 2: would never happen to me. But it did.
Speaker 1: He'll carry the experience with him for the rest of
Speaker 1: his life.
Speaker 2: Your trust in other people after this is almost non existent.
Speaker 1: He lost a lot, But now Bernie is focused on
Speaker 1: what he does have.
Speaker 2: I have a beautiful soon to be a husband, and
Speaker 2: I've got a little puppy, and I've got amazing friends
Speaker 2: and family and actually neighbors. So I'm content. He will
Speaker 2: never ever in his life have what I have sat
Speaker 2: in this chair now, and I think that's just incredibly sad.
Speaker 2: I don't hate him, I don't think too much other
Speaker 2: than just sadness.
Speaker 1: Bernie wants to be a resource for other people who've
Speaker 1: been victims of scam artists and narcissists, and the best
Speaker 1: way for him to do that is on his TikTok
Speaker 1: at Berniet Brown.
Speaker 2: When I went on and I saw the tiktoks around
Speaker 2: narcissism and around the discard, the gas lighting, all of that,
Speaker 2: that for me was just the awakening moment. Now I
Speaker 2: can do that for somebody else out there, and it
Speaker 2: does take a little bit of courage, especially if you're
Speaker 2: going through it, or you are very fresh from a
Speaker 2: narcissistic encounter. I just want to be that point of
Speaker 2: call and be able to just listen.
Speaker 1: We end every weekly episode with the same question, why
Speaker 1: do you want to share your story?
Speaker 2: I know for a fact that there's thousands of leos
Speaker 2: around the world. That's why this conversation, I think is massively,
Speaker 2: massively important. You know, if I'd have known about certain
Speaker 2: things beforehand, maybe i'd have acted differently. Maybe I would't
Speaker 2: have gone through what I'd have gone through. Maybe I'd
Speaker 2: have acted differently halfway through, and I wouldn't have suffered
Speaker 2: as much. But you know, what's happened to me is done.
Speaker 2: But if I can share and open somebody else's eyes
Speaker 2: and say, you know, if this ain't right, then it's
Speaker 2: worth it.
Speaker 1: On the next episode of Betrayal Weekly, I mean shark
Speaker 1: and disbelief, like just nauseatingly sick. The reality, I guess
Speaker 1: is slowly sinking in that my life is all a lie.
Speaker 3: He's in the kitchen going to the coffee machine to
Speaker 3: make himself an espresso.
Speaker 1: And he literally looks at me and shrugs, and he's.
Speaker 3: Like, so, oh, if you would like to reach out
Speaker 3: to the Betrayal team or want to tell us your
Speaker 3: Betrayal story, Email us at Betrayalpod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1: That's Betrayal Pod at gmail dot com, or follow us
Speaker 1: on Instagram at Betrayal Pod. You can also connect with
Speaker 1: me on Instagram at It's Andrea Gunning. To access our newsletter,
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Speaker 1: our substack at Betrayal dot substack dot com.
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Speaker 1: Five star reviews go a long way. A big thank
Speaker 1: you to all of our listeners.
Speaker 3: Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of
Speaker 3: Glass Entertainment Group and partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show
Speaker 3: is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer, hosted and
Speaker 3: produced by Me Andrea Gunning.
Speaker 1: Written and produced by Olivia Hewitt and Monique Leboard, also
Speaker 1: produced by Ben Fetterman.
Speaker 3: Casting support from Curry Richmond. Our iHeart team is Ali
Speaker 3: Perry and Jessica Krincheck.
Speaker 1: Audio editing and mixing by Matt del Vecchio, additional audio
Speaker 1: editing by Tanner Robbins.
Speaker 3: Betrayal's theme composed by Oliver Bain's music library provided by
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