WEBVTT - RE-RELEASE: Bernie Pt.1 & Pt. 2

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<v Speaker 1>Hi, Betrayal listeners, it's under a Gunning. We're off this

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<v Speaker 1>week for Thanksgiving, but we'll be back next week. This week,

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<v Speaker 1>we wanted to re release a listener favorite, Bernie Brown's story.

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<v Speaker 1>We originally released it in two parts, but for this

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<v Speaker 1>re release, we're combining both parts. You can hear his

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<v Speaker 1>full story all at once. We'll be back next week

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<v Speaker 1>and in the meantime, Happy Thanksgiving for those celebrating. You're

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<v Speaker 1>so grateful for all of you listeners. Thank you for everything. So,

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<v Speaker 1>without further ado, here's Bernie's story.

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<v Speaker 2>So we sat down and he was like, he doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>believe in NDA, so he's not going to ask for

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<v Speaker 2>one of them. And I was just like, what the

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<v Speaker 2>hell is going on here? Like what is happening? And

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<v Speaker 2>it was like, Oh, do you know what? I think?

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<v Speaker 2>I need to tell you a little bit about my

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<v Speaker 2>family history.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, a show about

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<v Speaker 1>the people we trust the most and the deceptions that

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<v Speaker 1>change everything. Today I want to introduce you to Bernie Brown.

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<v Speaker 2>My entire life's being paycheck to paycheck. I'm just very

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<v Speaker 2>clever with it. I've cut my own hair for the

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<v Speaker 2>past twenty years and colored it because I'm like, well,

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<v Speaker 2>if somebody else can do that, why can't I do that.

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<v Speaker 1>While growing up in London, Bernie experienced a difficult upbringing.

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<v Speaker 2>My childhood was very rough. My mum was extremely strong,

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<v Speaker 2>but she was going through massive domestic violence with my

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<v Speaker 2>dad at one point, very very seriously, we're talking like hospitalization.

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<v Speaker 1>Bernie witnessed his dad's violence at a young age.

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<v Speaker 2>I do remember one time we'll go into the kitchen

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<v Speaker 2>and he had her up by a knife. I actually

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<v Speaker 2>still remember to this day the layout of the room.

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<v Speaker 2>I remember it very very vividly. She would be the

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<v Speaker 2>punching bag to make sure that we were never harmed.

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<v Speaker 1>His mom was a pillar of strength.

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<v Speaker 2>My mother. Everything I do and the person that I

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<v Speaker 2>am now is because of who she was and what

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<v Speaker 2>she showed me.

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<v Speaker 1>What Bernie remembers most about his mom was how she

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<v Speaker 1>always made everyone feel at home.

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<v Speaker 2>She was always very house proud, always cleaning. When I

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<v Speaker 2>hit school, my friends would come over to see her.

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<v Speaker 2>She was very much an open door. The door was

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<v Speaker 2>never locked, which was probably unsafe, but anyone knocked on

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<v Speaker 2>the door, anyone who needed help, regardless of whether she

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<v Speaker 2>had it or not, it would always be it yes,

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<v Speaker 2>and she was very very well known for that.

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<v Speaker 1>When Bernie came out as gay, my.

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<v Speaker 2>Family were lovely with I was very, very very lucky

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<v Speaker 2>that enabled me to actually be proud and celebrate it.

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<v Speaker 1>He began to explore the queer scene in London.

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<v Speaker 2>When you first come out as being gay, you've got

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<v Speaker 2>the big clubs, you know, the Jyre Storia, which has

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<v Speaker 2>closed down now. I spent many a happy even in there.

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<v Speaker 2>Shall we say.

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<v Speaker 1>Bernie was living his best life. It was a fun

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<v Speaker 1>and exciting time, but deep down he was looking for

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<v Speaker 1>real partnership.

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<v Speaker 2>I really wanted to find somebody to settle down with.

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<v Speaker 2>I just wanted that one on one connection. I don't

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<v Speaker 2>remember actually witnessing a stable relationship, and I think that's

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<v Speaker 2>why I so desperately needed one.

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<v Speaker 1>At age eighteen, Bernie found what he was looking for.

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<v Speaker 2>I met my first real boyfriend at the time in London.

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<v Speaker 2>We moved to Newcastle, we bought a house, we had

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<v Speaker 2>two dogs and two cars, and we had that life.

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<v Speaker 2>I must have been twenty two twenty three, and it

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't legal in the UK to get married at that point,

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<v Speaker 2>so what we did we threw a party and we

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<v Speaker 2>legally changed our names, so we kind of had our

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<v Speaker 2>little version of a wedding and it was just going amazingly.

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<v Speaker 1>He had everything he wanted and it was great for

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<v Speaker 1>about eight years, but.

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<v Speaker 2>Then it just didn't work. When that failed. We were

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<v Speaker 2>actually very close friends for about ten years after I

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<v Speaker 2>was best man at his wedding.

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<v Speaker 1>After their relationship ended, Bernie's mother's health started to decline.

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<v Speaker 1>At the age of forty six, she died of heart failure.

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<v Speaker 2>We had that time to say goodbye, which rarely do

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<v Speaker 2>people get. I could actually process it there and then,

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<v Speaker 2>and we both said what we felt and you know

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<v Speaker 2>what she wanted from us in life.

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<v Speaker 1>Now Bernie felt truly out on his own. He was

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<v Speaker 1>newly single and starting over in this city.

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<v Speaker 2>I was in London. Of course I had flings and

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<v Speaker 2>you know all of them that come with it. But

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<v Speaker 2>every single time I would never see somebody or sleep

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<v Speaker 2>with somebody and instantly just disregard. There would always be

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<v Speaker 2>an element of could disco further.

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<v Speaker 1>He was a romantic, but Bernie knew he had to

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<v Speaker 1>prioritize himself and his career. After years of working in retail,

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<v Speaker 1>Bernie wanted to start a brand of his own, so

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<v Speaker 1>he started saving everything he could to start his own

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<v Speaker 1>clothing brand.

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<v Speaker 2>I've never never had money at all, but I've always

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<v Speaker 2>worked very very hard for the money that I do have.

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<v Speaker 2>I've always wanted to work for myself, not answer to anyone.

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<v Speaker 2>So I started a clothing T shirt business, like my

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<v Speaker 2>own prints and selling them online. And I was like,

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<v Speaker 2>it's my time. Let me build something that's my own.

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<v Speaker 1>Even though Bernie was working a lot, he still wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to have a good time.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't need the relationship at the minute, but you know,

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<v Speaker 2>you need the physical side of it.

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<v Speaker 1>So he went on Grinder, the dating app for gay men.

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<v Speaker 2>So I was using it happily. I'd actually met some

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<v Speaker 2>quite good friends. Now. I actually do still remember the

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<v Speaker 2>message come through because I had a glass of wine

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<v Speaker 2>and I was sat with a glass of wine and

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<v Speaker 2>I got the famous I remember that there was something intriguing.

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<v Speaker 2>It was very well written and not the usual first

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<v Speaker 2>opening message that you get on that kind of app.

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<v Speaker 2>In a forward. Do you know a nice breath, fresh air.

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<v Speaker 2>There's nothing on her. I'll just entertain it.

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<v Speaker 1>His name was Leo, and Bernie had never seen him

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<v Speaker 1>on the app.

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<v Speaker 2>Before, I've not seen you around here before, and it

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<v Speaker 2>was like, no, I live in central London by Hyde Park,

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<v Speaker 2>just around the corner from Harrod to this, that and

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<v Speaker 2>the other. Instantly I was like, well hold on there

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<v Speaker 2>like twenty million pounds.

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<v Speaker 1>Bernie didn't know anyone with a house in Hyde Park.

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<v Speaker 1>That was a completely different world.

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<v Speaker 2>Bearing in mind it's grinder. You instantly just think, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>all right, this fictional whatever, so you entertain and I

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<v Speaker 2>was like, oh, lovely fine.

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<v Speaker 1>Leo was quick to ask him on a date.

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<v Speaker 2>He was like, I'm not big talking on these apps.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm around the corner. Why didn't you come over? Nothing untoward.

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<v Speaker 2>He was like, just you know, let me cook you

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<v Speaker 2>some dinner and we'll just have a glass of wine.

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<v Speaker 2>And I then was like, oh, this is very sweet.

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<v Speaker 2>He's very well spoke.

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<v Speaker 1>In addition to his apartment in London, Leo also had

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<v Speaker 1>a luxury trailer, an airstream that he kept at a

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<v Speaker 1>high end campground.

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<v Speaker 2>They've got their own unique gardens and plots and all

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<v Speaker 2>of these it's beautiful. So I was like, okay, this

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<v Speaker 2>is nice.

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<v Speaker 1>And there's this.

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<v Speaker 2>Big, beautiful white range Rover that was sat next to it.

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<v Speaker 2>He was very articulate, and he did speak Queen's English.

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<v Speaker 2>It's very smooth, that pronounces every word as intended by

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<v Speaker 2>her Majesty, the Queen. I was like, oh my god,

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<v Speaker 2>I need to like you know, I need to up

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<v Speaker 2>it a notch.

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<v Speaker 1>Leo made a delicious dinner.

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<v Speaker 2>Instantly I was taken in just his charm. I've never

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<v Speaker 2>met anybody with that smooth charm that isn't patronizing. It

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<v Speaker 2>just was focused on me and we had an amazing meal.

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<v Speaker 1>Bernie was really enjoying himself. He liked talking to Leo

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<v Speaker 1>and they bonded over cars.

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<v Speaker 2>He went through his picture gallery and he had all

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<v Speaker 2>of these cars. We had the Bentley's, we had Aston Martin's,

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<v Speaker 2>we had quite a few range Rovers, some old classics,

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<v Speaker 2>and he was just flicking through and he was like,

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<v Speaker 2>this is my pride and joy I love cars and

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<v Speaker 2>this and the other.

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<v Speaker 1>The pictures also showed that Leo had serious money, a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of it.

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<v Speaker 2>You can kind of tell where somebody's got old money

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<v Speaker 2>or new money. New money is very much the designer

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<v Speaker 2>head to toe, and all of this old money is

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<v Speaker 2>you can't really tell if they've got money they're the chinos,

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<v Speaker 2>the nice shirt, the neck tie, that kind and that's

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<v Speaker 2>how he was.

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<v Speaker 1>But Bernie didn't understand why he asked him to come

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<v Speaker 1>to his trailer instead of his London apartment.

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<v Speaker 2>At that point, he just said he was from a

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<v Speaker 2>very influential family within the UK and because of his family,

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<v Speaker 2>he can't be out, he can't be gay, so to

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<v Speaker 2>escape all of the craziness, he needs somewhere to get away.

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<v Speaker 2>And he said nobody knows about this caravan, like his

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<v Speaker 2>family don't know, security doesn't know. So for him, it's

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<v Speaker 2>just his little getaway to just be himself. So I

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<v Speaker 2>was like, okay, fine, but at that point I didn't

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<v Speaker 2>know who his family was.

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<v Speaker 1>Bernie ended up staying and hanging out with Leo for hours.

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<v Speaker 2>It got dark, it must have been around about eleven

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<v Speaker 2>to twelve o'clock at night. It was like, oh, let's

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<v Speaker 2>go inside, let's go in the caravan, and we sat

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<v Speaker 2>in the sofa area and just had a conversation where

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<v Speaker 2>there's something very weird that happened. It was like, jumned,

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<v Speaker 2>if I ask you to do something, can you just

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<v Speaker 2>undress in front of me. I won't touch I won't

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<v Speaker 2>do anything like that buried in wait. I probably had

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<v Speaker 2>a bottle of wine. So I did and I got

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<v Speaker 2>naked and he didn't and it was like just turn

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<v Speaker 2>around for me and that was it. And I was like, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>you can get dressed now. I was like, what was

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<v Speaker 2>all that about. It was just like I've not been

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<v Speaker 2>with many men, so I'm a little bit nervous. Instantly,

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<v Speaker 2>I was like, oh, that's so sweet.

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<v Speaker 1>They kissed good night and Bernie got a taxi home.

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<v Speaker 2>Next morning, I woke up and of course there was

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<v Speaker 2>the most beautiful message that was on my phone and

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<v Speaker 2>he was like, look, I really want to see you again.

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<v Speaker 2>I can't get you out of my mind, this and

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<v Speaker 2>the other, and we just had normal conversation through the day.

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<v Speaker 2>I just started feeling a bit warm. I was just like,

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<v Speaker 2>is this really happening.

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<v Speaker 1>They decided on a second date.

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<v Speaker 2>So again I went over. We had something to eat.

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<v Speaker 2>The conversation was effortless, the subjects, it was just it

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<v Speaker 2>was so smooth. It was as if I'd known him

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<v Speaker 2>for years. It was so easy. And then we started

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<v Speaker 2>kissing and this, that and the other, and then he

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<v Speaker 2>I remember he started coughing and I was like oh,

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<v Speaker 2>is everything okay? And it was like, yeah, it's fine.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm just I'm very, very nervous. So I was like, listen,

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<v Speaker 2>let's just sit, take it slow, and you know, see

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<v Speaker 2>where we go. Nothing has to happen. And then we

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<v Speaker 2>went back to it and with things were happening, and

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<v Speaker 2>then he kind of had a coughing fit and he

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<v Speaker 2>actually got really serious that. I was like, I'll get

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<v Speaker 2>you a glass of water. I got in a glass

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<v Speaker 2>of water and he would not stop coughing. So I

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<v Speaker 2>was like, I'm just going to step outside because by

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<v Speaker 2>this point he was bringing things up. It was not

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<v Speaker 2>romantic at all. And I was outside for about about

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<v Speaker 2>ten minutes and all you could hear was this hacking up.

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<v Speaker 2>And at that point I stood there and I was

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<v Speaker 2>like what do I do? Do I go do? I

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<v Speaker 2>just like leave? But then my car keys are in there.

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<v Speaker 2>This is really awkward. So then he called me back

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<v Speaker 2>in and we had this conversation and he just apologized,

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<v Speaker 2>and that's when he said that he's got a few

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<v Speaker 2>health issues and it's like he's getting them checked up

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<v Speaker 2>and it's nothing too serious to worry about at the minute.

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<v Speaker 2>And he was like so apologetic I was like, honestly,

0:13:34.720 --> 0:13:38.720
<v Speaker 2>it's fine, let's just watch something. Calm down. I was like,

0:13:38.760 --> 0:13:40.040
<v Speaker 2>it's generally not a big deal.

0:13:41.280 --> 0:13:45.280
<v Speaker 1>After Leo recovered from his coughing that Bernie stayed and

0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:47.720
<v Speaker 1>they ended up having a really lovely evening.

0:13:48.280 --> 0:13:51.400
<v Speaker 2>We had a few dates at that point. It was like,

0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:53.400
<v Speaker 2>can I come to yours? So I was like, do

0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:56.200
<v Speaker 2>you know what, Yes, come to mine. I will cook

0:13:56.240 --> 0:13:59.040
<v Speaker 2>us a nice meal. And then that's the first time

0:13:59.200 --> 0:14:05.480
<v Speaker 2>that he came round and he brought the Bentley. This

0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:09.160
<v Speaker 2>Bentley Continental white thing pulled up and I was like,

0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:11.400
<v Speaker 2>what the hell is this.

0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:15.240
<v Speaker 1>Bernie had seen the pictures of Leo's cars, but he

0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:18.680
<v Speaker 1>was skeptical that Leo really owned all of them.

0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:20.000
<v Speaker 2>All the way up until that point, and that was

0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:22.400
<v Speaker 2>a few weeks in. I took everything with a pinch

0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:24.320
<v Speaker 2>of salt. And then I think that was the first

0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:27.640
<v Speaker 2>time when the Bentley pulled up, I'm like, but hold on,

0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:28.680
<v Speaker 2>if this is true.

0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:31.280
<v Speaker 1>The Bentley was impressive.

0:14:32.000 --> 0:14:36.200
<v Speaker 2>I'd never even been close to a Bentley jorna ride,

0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:38.120
<v Speaker 2>so I was like, yes, I was like, come on.

0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:40.240
<v Speaker 2>So I got in and we went for a drive,

0:14:40.360 --> 0:14:43.040
<v Speaker 2>and oh my god, it goes fast. Beautiful car.

0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:47.600
<v Speaker 1>Later that night, when they were deep in conversation.

0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:51.080
<v Speaker 2>It slipped in and I was like, oh, I've got

0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:54.200
<v Speaker 2>to go down to the Castle today for whatever event

0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:57.240
<v Speaker 2>I have to. I'm being dragged down and I was

0:14:57.280 --> 0:15:02.440
<v Speaker 2>like Castle, what's this? And he was like, oh, do

0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:04.480
<v Speaker 2>you know what? I think? I need to tell you

0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:15.160
<v Speaker 2>a little bit about my family history.

0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:29.800
<v Speaker 1>Bernie was really enjoying getting to know Leo, a guy

0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:33.320
<v Speaker 1>he met on Grinder. He knew Leo came from money,

0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:36.600
<v Speaker 1>and after a few dates, he confided in Bernie about

0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:37.840
<v Speaker 1>his family's backstory.

0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:40.080
<v Speaker 2>So we sat down and he was like, right, he

0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:42.160
<v Speaker 2>doesn't believe in NDA, so he's not going to ask

0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:46.080
<v Speaker 2>for one of them. And I was just like, what

0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:47.320
<v Speaker 2>the hell is going on here?

0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:53.400
<v Speaker 1>Like what is happening a non disclosure agreement? Bernie wasn't following,

0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:54.920
<v Speaker 1>but then.

0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:59.440
<v Speaker 2>He opened up with do you know who the Norfolks are?

0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:02.720
<v Speaker 2>And I said no, I have no idea who that is.

0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:05.600
<v Speaker 2>So then he went through the family history. So it

0:16:05.640 --> 0:16:09.080
<v Speaker 2>was like, my dad's brother is the Duke of Norfolk.

0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:12.000
<v Speaker 2>I didn't know who that was. He was like, the

0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:15.080
<v Speaker 2>Duke of Norfolk is the highest peerage in the UK

0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:17.920
<v Speaker 2>outside of the royal family, so it's literally the royal

0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:22.200
<v Speaker 2>family then the estate of the Duke of Norfolk. They're

0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:28.320
<v Speaker 2>bloodline royals, they're just not direct in line to the front. Obviously.

0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:30.520
<v Speaker 2>I had a little look on Google and you can

0:16:30.520 --> 0:16:32.760
<v Speaker 2>see on his profile who the Duke of Norfolk and

0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:36.800
<v Speaker 2>the immense responsibility that he has within Britain. So I

0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:40.440
<v Speaker 2>was like, okay, fine, so that's your dad's brother. He

0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:42.120
<v Speaker 2>was like yeah.

0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:44.040
<v Speaker 1>And Leo's title.

0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:45.720
<v Speaker 2>He was Viscount Norfolk.

0:16:46.040 --> 0:16:50.080
<v Speaker 1>The second and the castle he'd mentioned offhand was a

0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:54.920
<v Speaker 1>Rundel Castle, a thousand year old architectural masterpiece in the

0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:56.240
<v Speaker 1>south of England.

0:16:56.480 --> 0:16:58.520
<v Speaker 2>And it was like, let me show you something, because

0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:01.600
<v Speaker 2>at that point he'd brung an over andy bag and

0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:08.040
<v Speaker 2>he had this cartier box, quite slim, and opened it.

0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:12.040
<v Speaker 2>It was a crest with flower spikes all around. It

0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:16.919
<v Speaker 2>was a circular shape with the Saint George's cross in

0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:19.919
<v Speaker 2>the middle, then had some inscriptions on it and it

0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:23.920
<v Speaker 2>had the House of Norfolk and fitz Allen, and he said,

0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:26.960
<v Speaker 2>we have to carry this everywhere we go, badges and

0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:30.159
<v Speaker 2>emblems and crests, because if somebody passes they need it

0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:32.760
<v Speaker 2>instantly for a sign of respect and all this. I

0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:35.879
<v Speaker 2>held it. It was so heavy and I was just like,

0:17:36.080 --> 0:17:37.960
<v Speaker 2>what is going on in my life? Ride this minute

0:17:38.000 --> 0:17:43.040
<v Speaker 2>in time? You know, I've got somebody here that is

0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:49.720
<v Speaker 2>amazing and like so into me. But at the same time,

0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:53.280
<v Speaker 2>also with the Bentley out front and I'm sitting here

0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:57.440
<v Speaker 2>holding this big royal crest.

0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:02.400
<v Speaker 1>Bernie couldn't wrap his mind around it.

0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:05.480
<v Speaker 2>And I was like, I don't know what to say.

0:18:06.040 --> 0:18:07.640
<v Speaker 2>And it was like, it's fine, It's like, just ask

0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:09.479
<v Speaker 2>any questions that you have, and I was like, I

0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:12.600
<v Speaker 2>literally don't have questions, Like my mind is blank.

0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:17.720
<v Speaker 1>This was really big. Leo came from a very important

0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:22.200
<v Speaker 1>and complicated world. Bernie didn't know what it would mean

0:18:22.280 --> 0:18:23.720
<v Speaker 1>for his relationship with Leo.

0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:28.040
<v Speaker 2>He was like, I want to keep us separate. You

0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:30.800
<v Speaker 2>know that I have to do this with you. I

0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:33.240
<v Speaker 2>want to do and he was like, until we figure

0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:36.879
<v Speaker 2>out how or if we can mix this, let's just

0:18:36.920 --> 0:18:39.679
<v Speaker 2>try it. So I was like, look, I'm fine with that.

0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:44.560
<v Speaker 2>I'm not here and I never have been impressed by money. Obviously,

0:18:44.600 --> 0:18:47.560
<v Speaker 2>I'm impressed by the Bentley, but I'm not here for

0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:48.399
<v Speaker 2>anything other than you.

0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:53.360
<v Speaker 1>This was a pivotal moment the conversation deepened their connection.

0:18:54.080 --> 0:18:56.840
<v Speaker 2>That was then the first day that he had opened

0:18:56.880 --> 0:18:59.560
<v Speaker 2>up and he trusted me. He trusted me with this

0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:05.159
<v Speaker 2>secret and his family and his line. I think that

0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:07.880
<v Speaker 2>was the first time that I was like, yeah, he

0:19:07.960 --> 0:19:08.719
<v Speaker 2>really likes me.

0:19:09.800 --> 0:19:13.520
<v Speaker 1>Leo let Bernie into his inner circle, but he made

0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:17.520
<v Speaker 1>it clear privacy and discretion was critical.

0:19:19.320 --> 0:19:25.000
<v Speaker 2>The first few months after that, it was amazing. He

0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:31.080
<v Speaker 2>really genuinely wanted to see me happy and to take

0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:31.560
<v Speaker 2>care of me.

0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:34.679
<v Speaker 1>Bernie and Leo were spending more and more time with

0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:35.160
<v Speaker 1>each other.

0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:39.200
<v Speaker 2>He pretty much moved in. I think that was about

0:19:39.200 --> 0:19:41.280
<v Speaker 2>a month and a half in. I gave McKey and

0:19:41.320 --> 0:19:44.800
<v Speaker 2>I literally just said, you know, use it whenever you want.

0:19:45.320 --> 0:19:48.320
<v Speaker 1>Leo never missed a moment to make Bernie feel loved.

0:19:48.760 --> 0:19:50.399
<v Speaker 2>If I was on a late shift, I would finish

0:19:50.440 --> 0:19:53.000
<v Speaker 2>ten eleven o'clock at night, and then he would be

0:19:53.040 --> 0:19:59.240
<v Speaker 2>there with dinner with flowers. At that minute in time,

0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:05.320
<v Speaker 2>I had felt the happiest, settled and loved. Then I

0:20:05.359 --> 0:20:09.440
<v Speaker 2>would probably say bar my mom than I had ever

0:20:09.480 --> 0:20:11.520
<v Speaker 2>felt in my life.

0:20:11.600 --> 0:20:15.240
<v Speaker 1>Even though Leo came from a wealthy background, he worked

0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:18.320
<v Speaker 1>hard and had a career. He was passionate about.

0:20:19.200 --> 0:20:22.680
<v Speaker 2>He knew about watches. He was a horologist. He had

0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:27.679
<v Speaker 2>been to Switzerland, studied at the best places. He absolutely

0:20:27.760 --> 0:20:30.200
<v Speaker 2>knew everything. He had space to do a little studio.

0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:34.480
<v Speaker 2>He was taking all of these Rolexes apart and in

0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:36.800
<v Speaker 2>front of me putting them back together. And then he

0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:39.080
<v Speaker 2>was like, I'm licensed by Rolex to do that.

0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:44.280
<v Speaker 1>It was a very competitive certification. But luxury watches were

0:20:44.359 --> 0:20:45.280
<v Speaker 1>Leo's life.

0:20:45.520 --> 0:20:49.560
<v Speaker 2>He always had Rolex flip on his arm.

0:20:49.960 --> 0:20:53.320
<v Speaker 1>Within a few months, they were spending almost every night together.

0:20:53.680 --> 0:20:57.200
<v Speaker 1>They were exclusive. Bernie was starting to think that Leo

0:20:57.520 --> 0:21:01.080
<v Speaker 1>could be the one. There was only one big concern,

0:21:01.840 --> 0:21:06.560
<v Speaker 1>and that was Leo's health. It was there from the beginning,

0:21:06.960 --> 0:21:11.280
<v Speaker 1>but Bernie was seeing his symptoms worsen. Leo wasn't just coughing,

0:21:11.760 --> 0:21:13.080
<v Speaker 1>he was now throwing up.

0:21:15.320 --> 0:21:21.200
<v Speaker 2>He went silent for I want to say two days. Now.

0:21:21.240 --> 0:21:25.719
<v Speaker 2>By that point, please realize that two days, when I

0:21:25.720 --> 0:21:29.280
<v Speaker 2>am now fully into this, fully into the emotion, is

0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:31.320
<v Speaker 2>like two weeks.

0:21:32.000 --> 0:21:35.520
<v Speaker 1>During those two days, Bernie was desperate to hear from Leo.

0:21:36.359 --> 0:21:38.720
<v Speaker 1>While he waited, his mind began to spin.

0:21:39.400 --> 0:21:42.200
<v Speaker 2>What have I done? Have I said something? I went

0:21:42.240 --> 0:21:44.199
<v Speaker 2>back through WhatsApps and this is only two days of

0:21:44.200 --> 0:21:47.919
<v Speaker 2>no conversation. I went through WhatsApps to find out what

0:21:48.160 --> 0:21:51.600
<v Speaker 2>I've said that he could possibly take offense with anyway.

0:21:51.600 --> 0:21:56.200
<v Speaker 2>He eventually came back and basically apologized for not being

0:21:56.200 --> 0:21:58.400
<v Speaker 2>in contact with me over the two days.

0:21:59.000 --> 0:22:01.480
<v Speaker 1>Leo had a good reason for being out of touch.

0:22:02.119 --> 0:22:03.440
<v Speaker 1>He'd been in the hospital.

0:22:04.280 --> 0:22:06.560
<v Speaker 2>He was like, I can't say anything over for the phone,

0:22:06.600 --> 0:22:08.200
<v Speaker 2>but I just need to get out of London. My

0:22:08.400 --> 0:22:13.480
<v Speaker 2>family going into a panic and trying to keep this maintained,

0:22:14.000 --> 0:22:15.959
<v Speaker 2>you know, make sure that it doesn't go to any press.

0:22:16.160 --> 0:22:18.760
<v Speaker 2>He was like, can I just come to yourselves? Like absolutely.

0:22:19.880 --> 0:22:23.440
<v Speaker 2>At that point, he told me that he was suffering

0:22:23.480 --> 0:22:28.240
<v Speaker 2>from brain cancer and they've given him a year to live,

0:22:29.040 --> 0:22:31.560
<v Speaker 2>and obviously he had a lot of process and that

0:22:31.560 --> 0:22:32.440
<v Speaker 2>he needed to do.

0:22:35.320 --> 0:22:38.680
<v Speaker 1>Bernie was devastated. He wanted to be there for Leo

0:22:39.119 --> 0:22:40.040
<v Speaker 1>any way he could.

0:22:40.840 --> 0:22:43.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm just going to sit here and be quiet. You

0:22:43.119 --> 0:22:46.920
<v Speaker 2>talk to me, you vent me, you get your frustrations out,

0:22:47.119 --> 0:22:48.720
<v Speaker 2>anything that is in your mind. I was like, you

0:22:48.800 --> 0:22:51.080
<v Speaker 2>literally throw them at me. This is what I'm here

0:22:51.160 --> 0:22:54.320
<v Speaker 2>to do. And he did, and he got upset, He

0:22:54.440 --> 0:22:57.720
<v Speaker 2>got angry. He was crying and then he got to

0:22:58.240 --> 0:23:02.200
<v Speaker 2>the US conversation and he said, I can't really see

0:23:02.200 --> 0:23:02.760
<v Speaker 2>you anymore.

0:23:03.760 --> 0:23:05.560
<v Speaker 1>Leo didn't want to be a burden.

0:23:06.320 --> 0:23:09.320
<v Speaker 2>He was like, look, I can't promise you anything. If

0:23:09.359 --> 0:23:11.600
<v Speaker 2>this is how my life is going to end, there's

0:23:11.600 --> 0:23:14.080
<v Speaker 2>bits that may not be pretty. And I was like, look,

0:23:14.119 --> 0:23:16.280
<v Speaker 2>I really don't care. I was like, if I have

0:23:16.359 --> 0:23:18.760
<v Speaker 2>to be a complete secret, even if we have to

0:23:18.800 --> 0:23:21.840
<v Speaker 2>break up, just I want to be your friend. It

0:23:22.000 --> 0:23:25.600
<v Speaker 2>wasn't about any of the sex or the relationship for me.

0:23:26.080 --> 0:23:27.800
<v Speaker 2>It was this person that was in front of me.

0:23:28.320 --> 0:23:31.600
<v Speaker 1>To Bernie's surprise, Leo even brought up as well.

0:23:32.160 --> 0:23:34.600
<v Speaker 2>He was like, obviously he can't change that because if

0:23:34.640 --> 0:23:36.959
<v Speaker 2>he put my name in there, they all questions will

0:23:36.960 --> 0:23:38.560
<v Speaker 2>come up with who. And I was like, I really

0:23:38.720 --> 0:23:41.399
<v Speaker 2>do not care. I was like, I literally do not

0:23:41.520 --> 0:23:45.359
<v Speaker 2>care about any of that. I was like, if you

0:23:45.520 --> 0:23:48.520
<v Speaker 2>get to that point, I will be here as much

0:23:48.520 --> 0:23:49.199
<v Speaker 2>as you need me to.

0:23:52.280 --> 0:23:54.960
<v Speaker 1>Leo couldn't come out to his family, so in order

0:23:54.960 --> 0:23:57.800
<v Speaker 1>for Bernie to stay in his life, he suggested Bernie

0:23:57.840 --> 0:24:01.080
<v Speaker 1>pretend to be his assistant or driver. It was the

0:24:01.160 --> 0:24:04.959
<v Speaker 1>kind of arrangement Bernie wouldn't have agreed to under normal circumstances,

0:24:05.359 --> 0:24:07.240
<v Speaker 1>but he was willing to do anything to make sure

0:24:07.280 --> 0:24:08.639
<v Speaker 1>he could care for Leo.

0:24:08.760 --> 0:24:13.720
<v Speaker 2>So he agreed, and I meant it one hundred percent,

0:24:14.040 --> 0:24:15.440
<v Speaker 2>not a second guess in my mind.

0:24:16.119 --> 0:24:19.720
<v Speaker 1>So Bernie immediately focused on helping Leo make sense of

0:24:19.760 --> 0:24:21.320
<v Speaker 1>his diagnosis.

0:24:21.640 --> 0:24:24.840
<v Speaker 2>I went online. I researched the hell out of it,

0:24:25.400 --> 0:24:28.320
<v Speaker 2>down to all different methods, and I mean I did

0:24:28.359 --> 0:24:30.480
<v Speaker 2>go crazy with it, to be honest. I was there

0:24:30.520 --> 0:24:34.440
<v Speaker 2>for at least an entire twenty four hours googling research

0:24:34.520 --> 0:24:40.280
<v Speaker 2>and what this meant, experimental drugs, and like, I just

0:24:40.440 --> 0:24:42.600
<v Speaker 2>went to town with everything that I could find out.

0:24:43.240 --> 0:24:46.720
<v Speaker 1>But Leo had already accepted that he didn't have much

0:24:46.800 --> 0:24:47.399
<v Speaker 1>time left.

0:24:48.160 --> 0:24:50.040
<v Speaker 2>He was talking about that he might not actually go

0:24:50.119 --> 0:24:53.919
<v Speaker 2>for chemo because he just wants to just end it

0:24:53.960 --> 0:24:56.840
<v Speaker 2>on his terms in Switzerland. That was a conversation that

0:24:56.880 --> 0:24:59.320
<v Speaker 2>we had. And then that's when we went onto a

0:24:59.320 --> 0:25:01.399
<v Speaker 2>conversation about I think I need to start living my

0:25:01.440 --> 0:25:03.840
<v Speaker 2>life while I've got it, and I was like, right, okay,

0:25:03.960 --> 0:25:04.760
<v Speaker 2>so let's do that.

0:25:05.920 --> 0:25:09.240
<v Speaker 1>For Leo, living his life to the fullest meant finally

0:25:09.320 --> 0:25:14.120
<v Speaker 1>launching his own watch restoration business that would be his legacy.

0:25:14.640 --> 0:25:18.080
<v Speaker 1>He had a collection of incredible luxury watches and he

0:25:18.119 --> 0:25:19.680
<v Speaker 1>couldn't take them with him.

0:25:20.160 --> 0:25:22.399
<v Speaker 2>One day he said to me, I've got all of

0:25:22.440 --> 0:25:24.879
<v Speaker 2>these watches, I might just start selling them because I

0:25:24.960 --> 0:25:27.119
<v Speaker 2>kind of like swap in a buy and trade on

0:25:27.200 --> 0:25:29.520
<v Speaker 2>this site. And it's like I kind of want to

0:25:29.520 --> 0:25:32.520
<v Speaker 2>build something. So instantly I kicked in. I was like,

0:25:32.720 --> 0:25:35.920
<v Speaker 2>I can build you a website. Let's register this company,

0:25:36.119 --> 0:25:38.680
<v Speaker 2>and I did. We had quite a few business meetings

0:25:38.680 --> 0:25:41.359
<v Speaker 2>on how the logo is going to look, what it's called,

0:25:41.840 --> 0:25:44.399
<v Speaker 2>setting up all of the social media for it. And

0:25:44.480 --> 0:25:46.520
<v Speaker 2>I sat on my little photoshop and I'd done the

0:25:46.560 --> 0:25:49.399
<v Speaker 2>logo and the company was called The Vintage Crown.

0:25:52.280 --> 0:25:54.879
<v Speaker 1>Leo wanted Bernie to list all of his watches and

0:25:54.960 --> 0:25:58.520
<v Speaker 1>post them online, so he brought his entire collection to

0:25:58.600 --> 0:25:59.359
<v Speaker 1>Bernie's house.

0:26:00.160 --> 0:26:02.600
<v Speaker 2>We came up and he literally had about two three

0:26:02.720 --> 0:26:08.040
<v Speaker 2>trunks of watches. I mean, I've got all the pictures

0:26:08.040 --> 0:26:12.840
<v Speaker 2>on my phone. Still. There was countless rolelexes, there was

0:26:13.000 --> 0:26:16.480
<v Speaker 2>the tet Feliks, there was Van Kleef and arpoles. They

0:26:16.520 --> 0:26:20.159
<v Speaker 2>were stunning. There must have been i'd say close to

0:26:20.200 --> 0:26:23.520
<v Speaker 2>one hundred one hundred watches in my lounge on this

0:26:23.600 --> 0:26:29.760
<v Speaker 2>table and there was this very very old Rolex. The glass,

0:26:29.800 --> 0:26:31.439
<v Speaker 2>the watch face was quite rounded.

0:26:31.960 --> 0:26:35.800
<v Speaker 1>Bernie picked up the watch. It was heavy and ornate.

0:26:36.520 --> 0:26:39.640
<v Speaker 2>It was like, this is probably the most expensive watch

0:26:39.680 --> 0:26:41.600
<v Speaker 2>that I own. And I was like, well, how much

0:26:41.680 --> 0:26:43.480
<v Speaker 2>is it worth? It was like you check it out,

0:26:43.640 --> 0:26:47.000
<v Speaker 2>So it's like, go on the Rolex website, turned the

0:26:47.040 --> 0:26:50.240
<v Speaker 2>watch over. I typed in the cerial number and it

0:26:50.280 --> 0:26:53.440
<v Speaker 2>came in at one point two million. At that point,

0:26:53.480 --> 0:26:55.399
<v Speaker 2>I probably had aboute hundred pounds in my bank account,

0:26:55.480 --> 0:26:59.800
<v Speaker 2>so I'm like one point two million. It was just

0:26:59.840 --> 0:27:02.480
<v Speaker 2>in to think of the money that was sat right

0:27:02.480 --> 0:27:03.080
<v Speaker 2>in front of me.

0:27:24.240 --> 0:27:27.960
<v Speaker 1>Leo had a staggering collection of luxury watches, and as

0:27:28.000 --> 0:27:31.800
<v Speaker 1>Bernie helped Leo launch his new watch business, Bernie got

0:27:31.800 --> 0:27:34.639
<v Speaker 1>a taste of that world. Like when Bernie came with

0:27:34.720 --> 0:27:39.440
<v Speaker 1>him to run errands at high end London department stores, and.

0:27:39.440 --> 0:27:42.360
<v Speaker 2>Whenever we walked into Harold's, they knew of him. They

0:27:42.560 --> 0:27:46.280
<v Speaker 2>addressed him by his name, talking about previous purchases that

0:27:46.320 --> 0:27:48.960
<v Speaker 2>he had made, and full conversations.

0:27:49.840 --> 0:27:53.600
<v Speaker 1>He even asked Bernie to go to Selfridges, another luxury

0:27:53.600 --> 0:27:56.479
<v Speaker 1>department store in London, for an exclusive event.

0:27:57.280 --> 0:28:01.040
<v Speaker 2>It's a private party of VIP, but it would be

0:28:01.119 --> 0:28:03.280
<v Speaker 2>quite nice if you can come with me just to

0:28:03.760 --> 0:28:07.040
<v Speaker 2>experience a bit of that lifestyle. And I was like, oh,

0:28:07.400 --> 0:28:11.120
<v Speaker 2>like absolutely, yeah, I'll come out. So we got dressed,

0:28:11.400 --> 0:28:14.640
<v Speaker 2>made our way into central London, walk into Selfridges and

0:28:14.800 --> 0:28:16.320
<v Speaker 2>it was red carpet all of that.

0:28:16.840 --> 0:28:20.119
<v Speaker 1>This event was a big deal and Leo was a

0:28:20.119 --> 0:28:24.760
<v Speaker 1>big deal there. Everyone greeted him by name and immediately

0:28:25.160 --> 0:28:27.000
<v Speaker 1>people were vying for his attention.

0:28:27.600 --> 0:28:31.359
<v Speaker 2>So he went into this private VIP area through the door.

0:28:32.000 --> 0:28:34.600
<v Speaker 1>Leo was there to look at a specific.

0:28:34.080 --> 0:28:36.640
<v Speaker 2>Watch, and then he sent me a message and was like, Okay,

0:28:36.640 --> 0:28:38.080
<v Speaker 2>we're kind of done with the finance side, do you

0:28:38.160 --> 0:28:40.000
<v Speaker 2>want to come in? So I was like absolutely, So

0:28:40.080 --> 0:28:42.360
<v Speaker 2>I went in and it was a private room with

0:28:42.600 --> 0:28:46.000
<v Speaker 2>a head of European sales. The room was gorgeous. We

0:28:46.120 --> 0:28:49.400
<v Speaker 2>had or derves that were laid out and the watches

0:28:49.440 --> 0:28:52.840
<v Speaker 2>were laid out in front of me. These ridiculous I

0:28:52.840 --> 0:28:55.760
<v Speaker 2>mean the price of a house, these watches in front

0:28:55.800 --> 0:28:59.360
<v Speaker 2>of us, and it was just this woman, Leo and me.

0:29:03.280 --> 0:29:06.920
<v Speaker 1>Leo bought two watches that day as gifts for family members.

0:29:07.320 --> 0:29:10.480
<v Speaker 1>With Bernie's help, Leo's watch business got off the ground,

0:29:10.800 --> 0:29:13.480
<v Speaker 1>and as a thank you, he would let Bernie borrow

0:29:13.600 --> 0:29:14.760
<v Speaker 1>some of the pieces.

0:29:15.120 --> 0:29:17.480
<v Speaker 2>If we'd go for dinner, he'd give me a Rolex

0:29:17.600 --> 0:29:21.680
<v Speaker 2>or a Fotech Philippin. He then called one day and

0:29:21.800 --> 0:29:24.040
<v Speaker 2>he said, this Rolex has come my way for me

0:29:24.720 --> 0:29:28.280
<v Speaker 2>to recondition and to sell. It's just a Sa Mariner.

0:29:28.400 --> 0:29:30.680
<v Speaker 2>I've got quite a few of them anyway. But he

0:29:30.760 --> 0:29:31.600
<v Speaker 2>was like, I thought of you.

0:29:32.480 --> 0:29:34.480
<v Speaker 1>Leo was making him an offer.

0:29:35.560 --> 0:29:37.320
<v Speaker 2>He was like, look, you buy it off of me

0:29:37.880 --> 0:29:42.800
<v Speaker 2>for twenty thousand. I will recondition it, I'll make it

0:29:42.840 --> 0:29:45.520
<v Speaker 2>look as good as new, i will polish it, I

0:29:45.600 --> 0:29:47.920
<v Speaker 2>will have it back up and it's usually worth about

0:29:48.080 --> 0:29:49.720
<v Speaker 2>thirty to forty thousand.

0:29:50.000 --> 0:29:53.920
<v Speaker 1>Twenty grand up front. It would be a huge investment

0:29:53.960 --> 0:29:57.120
<v Speaker 1>for Bernie, and then Leo would resell it at a

0:29:57.160 --> 0:29:59.640
<v Speaker 1>profit of at least ten thousand pounds.

0:30:00.160 --> 0:30:02.800
<v Speaker 2>Of course, it would be amazing. That extra ten ground

0:30:02.800 --> 0:30:05.840
<v Speaker 2>for me at this minute in time would open up doors.

0:30:05.880 --> 0:30:08.920
<v Speaker 2>I've never had just a ten thousand pound sum in

0:30:09.000 --> 0:30:09.560
<v Speaker 2>my account.

0:30:10.080 --> 0:30:14.480
<v Speaker 1>But Bernie didn't have twenty thousand pounds just lying around.

0:30:14.640 --> 0:30:16.360
<v Speaker 2>And I was all right. I was like at the

0:30:16.400 --> 0:30:21.640
<v Speaker 2>first I just don't have anywhere near that money whatsoever. Literally,

0:30:21.720 --> 0:30:24.840
<v Speaker 2>I think for my entire life it's been paycheck to paycheck.

0:30:24.880 --> 0:30:27.200
<v Speaker 2>I'm just very clever with it. Nowhere do I have

0:30:27.240 --> 0:30:28.000
<v Speaker 2>that kind of money.

0:30:28.720 --> 0:30:33.240
<v Speaker 1>Leo had an idea, what about Bernie's clothing business. It

0:30:33.320 --> 0:30:36.200
<v Speaker 1>wasn't as successful as the watch sales, so.

0:30:36.160 --> 0:30:38.240
<v Speaker 2>He said, well the clothes was like, you know, it's

0:30:38.280 --> 0:30:40.400
<v Speaker 2>taking too much of your time. Is it really doing anything?

0:30:40.400 --> 0:30:41.760
<v Speaker 2>And I was like, it's getting a bit tiring, And

0:30:41.760 --> 0:30:45.400
<v Speaker 2>so I said, look, why don't you just sell sell

0:30:45.520 --> 0:30:49.120
<v Speaker 2>all of the clothes just in bulk. Somebody will buy it,

0:30:48.880 --> 0:30:51.360
<v Speaker 2>sell it, sell the website off, like, sell the business,

0:30:51.800 --> 0:30:56.120
<v Speaker 2>get this watch, and then use that lump sum for

0:30:56.200 --> 0:30:58.240
<v Speaker 2>how whatever you want to do your next project.

0:31:00.520 --> 0:31:03.120
<v Speaker 1>Bernie had a few ideas for new businesses. He wanted

0:31:03.160 --> 0:31:07.560
<v Speaker 1>to start. The investment in the watch represented a new chapter.

0:31:08.200 --> 0:31:09.800
<v Speaker 1>So he started crunching the numbers.

0:31:10.200 --> 0:31:12.239
<v Speaker 2>I was like, look, I can take this money out

0:31:12.280 --> 0:31:14.760
<v Speaker 2>of all of my credit cards. But if I do

0:31:14.840 --> 0:31:19.720
<v Speaker 2>that with my bills my wage in retail will it

0:31:19.760 --> 0:31:23.680
<v Speaker 2>won't even cover half of all them repayments in one

0:31:23.720 --> 0:31:26.560
<v Speaker 2>go by maxing out them cars. So he said, look,

0:31:27.280 --> 0:31:28.760
<v Speaker 2>once I've got the money, it will take about a

0:31:28.760 --> 0:31:32.240
<v Speaker 2>week for the watch to get here, so I will

0:31:32.240 --> 0:31:34.320
<v Speaker 2>recondition it, I'll get it sent to you. You'll sell

0:31:34.360 --> 0:31:36.719
<v Speaker 2>it before you next get paid if I get it.

0:31:36.920 --> 0:31:39.360
<v Speaker 2>But I'd never do anything to hurt you. This is

0:31:39.400 --> 0:31:42.000
<v Speaker 2>for your benefit. Look, if it's too much, then you

0:31:42.080 --> 0:31:44.280
<v Speaker 2>know what, Let's just not do it. Let's just just

0:31:44.280 --> 0:31:48.040
<v Speaker 2>forget about it completely. And by that point I was like,

0:31:48.280 --> 0:31:51.360
<v Speaker 2>I'd already kind of imagined if I sell all of

0:31:51.360 --> 0:31:54.320
<v Speaker 2>this stuff and I take from these credit cards, by

0:31:54.320 --> 0:31:57.160
<v Speaker 2>the end of it, I could have ten to twenty pounds,

0:31:57.200 --> 0:32:01.000
<v Speaker 2>which is just mine to do with. I was like, right, okay,

0:32:01.040 --> 0:32:03.880
<v Speaker 2>I trust him one hundred percent. Let's just do this.

0:32:04.520 --> 0:32:06.200
<v Speaker 1>Bernie was in so.

0:32:06.360 --> 0:32:08.920
<v Speaker 2>I sold the website off and then I think that

0:32:09.160 --> 0:32:12.680
<v Speaker 2>only got about half of it, maybe a little bit more.

0:32:12.840 --> 0:32:15.080
<v Speaker 2>And then I did have a few credit cards, so

0:32:15.320 --> 0:32:17.440
<v Speaker 2>I got rid of the final bits of the clothes,

0:32:17.680 --> 0:32:21.480
<v Speaker 2>took out from every credit card that I had, maxed

0:32:21.480 --> 0:32:27.120
<v Speaker 2>it out, and gave it him.

0:32:27.360 --> 0:32:31.120
<v Speaker 1>Bernie got fifteen thousand pounds from maxed out credit cards.

0:32:31.480 --> 0:32:34.080
<v Speaker 1>For the rest of the money, he took out an

0:32:34.120 --> 0:32:35.800
<v Speaker 1>incredibly high interest loan.

0:32:36.520 --> 0:32:40.440
<v Speaker 2>These payday loans, the interest rate is seventy nine percent

0:32:40.520 --> 0:32:43.240
<v Speaker 2>per month, and that's more than what you've borrowed.

0:32:44.080 --> 0:32:47.160
<v Speaker 1>Bernie was putting everything on the line. He sent Leo

0:32:47.240 --> 0:32:50.320
<v Speaker 1>the twenty thousand and Leo ordered the watch.

0:32:51.360 --> 0:32:55.880
<v Speaker 2>It'd been delivered to his Hyde Park address.

0:32:55.840 --> 0:32:59.040
<v Speaker 1>But it was the week of Christmas and Leo wasn't home.

0:32:59.680 --> 0:33:00.640
<v Speaker 1>He was at the castle.

0:33:01.280 --> 0:33:04.920
<v Speaker 2>He has responsibilities around the UK, so he was up

0:33:04.960 --> 0:33:07.080
<v Speaker 2>there doing official business and he will get to it.

0:33:07.920 --> 0:33:10.640
<v Speaker 1>With the holidays. It could be a week before Leo

0:33:10.720 --> 0:33:13.600
<v Speaker 1>got to the watch. That meant weeks before they could

0:33:13.640 --> 0:33:14.160
<v Speaker 1>resell it.

0:33:14.920 --> 0:33:18.680
<v Speaker 2>That's when I started panicking because at that point there

0:33:18.720 --> 0:33:20.760
<v Speaker 2>is absolutely no way that I am going to be

0:33:20.800 --> 0:33:25.240
<v Speaker 2>able to cover that next payment. And I told him

0:33:25.280 --> 0:33:29.560
<v Speaker 2>that I am getting nervous because I know the tsunami

0:33:29.560 --> 0:33:31.120
<v Speaker 2>that's coming if this isn't paid.

0:33:31.560 --> 0:33:35.200
<v Speaker 1>But Leo was calm. He handled deals like this all

0:33:35.280 --> 0:33:35.760
<v Speaker 1>the time.

0:33:36.280 --> 0:33:39.440
<v Speaker 2>He just kept reassuring me, saying, look, there's a little

0:33:39.440 --> 0:33:42.400
<v Speaker 2>bit of a delay. I've got a buyer. I've got

0:33:42.880 --> 0:33:45.800
<v Speaker 2>somebody that's interested. As soon as I can get my

0:33:45.920 --> 0:33:48.160
<v Speaker 2>hands down to this watch. It will take me one

0:33:48.240 --> 0:33:51.040
<v Speaker 2>day to recondition it because it's in very good quality,

0:33:51.360 --> 0:33:54.280
<v Speaker 2>and I will literally have a buyer for you. Within

0:33:54.320 --> 0:33:59.040
<v Speaker 2>twenty four hours.

0:33:57.760 --> 0:34:01.840
<v Speaker 1>After that, Leo seemed to change. The loving calls and

0:34:01.920 --> 0:34:03.680
<v Speaker 1>texts started dwindling.

0:34:04.280 --> 0:34:09.359
<v Speaker 2>The communication with me and him went very sparse. The

0:34:09.400 --> 0:34:13.719
<v Speaker 2>morning messages, which by this point had constantly continued. If

0:34:13.719 --> 0:34:15.439
<v Speaker 2>I had even to the point if he was staying

0:34:15.440 --> 0:34:17.160
<v Speaker 2>at mine and I woke up before in the morning

0:34:17.160 --> 0:34:19.480
<v Speaker 2>to go to work, when he woke up, I would

0:34:19.560 --> 0:34:21.759
<v Speaker 2>still get that morning message.

0:34:22.000 --> 0:34:25.920
<v Speaker 1>And now those texts stopped coming. Their connections started to

0:34:25.960 --> 0:34:29.520
<v Speaker 1>feel less like a romantic relationship and more like a

0:34:29.560 --> 0:34:30.640
<v Speaker 1>business partnership.

0:34:31.400 --> 0:34:40.160
<v Speaker 2>It went from loving and just amazing conversations to all

0:34:40.200 --> 0:34:41.239
<v Speaker 2>about the watch.

0:34:42.440 --> 0:34:46.600
<v Speaker 1>For Bernie, this cold shoulder really hurt. Obviously he was

0:34:46.640 --> 0:34:50.120
<v Speaker 1>concerned about the watch, but that wasn't what he really

0:34:50.120 --> 0:34:50.720
<v Speaker 1>cared about.

0:34:54.640 --> 0:34:59.439
<v Speaker 2>I am fully in depth, I am fully in love

0:34:59.440 --> 0:35:00.839
<v Speaker 2>with him.

0:35:00.880 --> 0:35:03.640
<v Speaker 1>In seven months, Leo had become the center point of

0:35:03.680 --> 0:35:04.080
<v Speaker 1>his life.

0:35:04.880 --> 0:35:07.200
<v Speaker 2>He was my world at that point, and there was

0:35:07.239 --> 0:35:11.480
<v Speaker 2>nothing else that I was concentrated on. I'd stopped talking

0:35:11.520 --> 0:35:14.800
<v Speaker 2>to my friends, even my best friend. I'd stopped talking

0:35:14.840 --> 0:35:18.000
<v Speaker 2>to my family, and all of a sudden, this person

0:35:18.680 --> 0:35:23.920
<v Speaker 2>is completely disregarding me. I was panicking. Then I was

0:35:24.080 --> 0:35:25.920
<v Speaker 2>then going back to that state, what have I done?

0:35:25.960 --> 0:35:27.560
<v Speaker 2>What have I said? I know it's Christmas. I don't

0:35:27.560 --> 0:35:29.279
<v Speaker 2>want to contact him too much because I know that

0:35:29.360 --> 0:35:32.680
<v Speaker 2>he's working and he's probably with people with his family.

0:35:32.719 --> 0:35:35.080
<v Speaker 2>But at the same time, I'm panicking because I'm not

0:35:35.160 --> 0:35:42.960
<v Speaker 2>getting that response. Then comes Christmas Eve and he's kind

0:35:42.960 --> 0:35:45.359
<v Speaker 2>of goes silent a little bit, and then I get

0:35:45.600 --> 0:35:50.520
<v Speaker 2>Christmas Eve. I get a few messages, very cold, and

0:35:50.680 --> 0:35:52.440
<v Speaker 2>it was like, I'm with people, I can't talk. I

0:35:52.480 --> 0:35:54.320
<v Speaker 2>was like, okay, I just wanted to wish you a

0:35:54.360 --> 0:35:56.239
<v Speaker 2>merry Christmas.

0:35:57.640 --> 0:35:59.719
<v Speaker 1>It was important for Leo to spend time with his

0:35:59.719 --> 0:36:03.480
<v Speaker 1>family because he had so little time left. Maybe the

0:36:03.600 --> 0:36:08.680
<v Speaker 1>reality of his diagnosis was finally hitting him. Bernie understood

0:36:08.680 --> 0:36:12.080
<v Speaker 1>why Leo might be pulling away, but it's still stung.

0:36:12.960 --> 0:36:16.080
<v Speaker 2>Next morning, I did actually get quite a nice message.

0:36:16.239 --> 0:36:19.399
<v Speaker 2>It's just like Merry Christmas, handsome and blah blah blah

0:36:19.400 --> 0:36:25.000
<v Speaker 2>blah blah. I instantly my mood. I was uplifted. I

0:36:25.000 --> 0:36:27.440
<v Speaker 2>was like, oh, it's okay, what's your plans for today?

0:36:27.719 --> 0:36:33.920
<v Speaker 2>It was I went straight into that puppy mode like

0:36:34.719 --> 0:36:36.440
<v Speaker 2>he could do no wrong, and he said, I'm with

0:36:36.480 --> 0:36:38.880
<v Speaker 2>my family all day. I won't be able to contact

0:36:38.920 --> 0:36:41.479
<v Speaker 2>you for the next two days. I was like, okay,

0:36:41.480 --> 0:36:44.680
<v Speaker 2>that's absolutely fine. I get it. It's Christmas, you are

0:36:44.680 --> 0:36:46.120
<v Speaker 2>supposed to spend that with your family.

0:36:46.680 --> 0:36:50.800
<v Speaker 1>Bernie spent that Christmas alone waiting for a message from Leo.

0:36:51.520 --> 0:36:57.319
<v Speaker 1>But that day Bernie noticed something strange. It seemed like

0:36:57.480 --> 0:37:02.680
<v Speaker 1>Leo was actually spending Christmas Day with another man, someone

0:37:02.960 --> 0:37:04.760
<v Speaker 1>Bernie had never seen before.

0:37:06.000 --> 0:37:12.080
<v Speaker 2>There was a picture on his WhatsApp update and it

0:37:12.120 --> 0:37:14.240
<v Speaker 2>was him, but there was somebody else in the background.

0:37:14.760 --> 0:37:19.040
<v Speaker 2>There was this guy just walking towards the camera, looking

0:37:19.080 --> 0:37:21.279
<v Speaker 2>directly in the camera as if he was going to

0:37:21.280 --> 0:37:23.560
<v Speaker 2>say something, and it was the inside of a church,

0:37:24.239 --> 0:37:25.040
<v Speaker 2>and it just bucked me.

0:37:25.040 --> 0:37:28.400
<v Speaker 1>For a few days, Bernie stared at the photo, practically

0:37:28.480 --> 0:37:30.320
<v Speaker 1>memorizing every detail.

0:37:30.800 --> 0:37:33.640
<v Speaker 2>Anyway, so on the twenty seventh feet message, I was like, sorry,

0:37:33.719 --> 0:37:35.600
<v Speaker 2>I've not been I've been with family this and the other.

0:37:35.640 --> 0:37:37.120
<v Speaker 2>I was like, okay, how was your Christmas? To check

0:37:37.200 --> 0:37:40.319
<v Speaker 2>up so much? And he was like no, we just

0:37:40.440 --> 0:37:43.359
<v Speaker 2>really stayed around the castle and then we didn't really

0:37:43.360 --> 0:37:45.160
<v Speaker 2>do anything. I was like, oh, what about the church?

0:37:45.600 --> 0:37:47.480
<v Speaker 2>I was like, what church? And then it was just

0:37:47.520 --> 0:37:50.600
<v Speaker 2>like I was like, oh, I just saw your update

0:37:50.600 --> 0:37:53.160
<v Speaker 2>on your WhatsApp and it was a picture of a church.

0:37:53.239 --> 0:37:55.160
<v Speaker 2>And I was like, I don't know what you're talking about.

0:37:55.200 --> 0:37:56.120
<v Speaker 2>You didn't see anything.

0:37:56.840 --> 0:37:59.560
<v Speaker 1>But Bernie had looked at the photo over and over.

0:38:00.120 --> 0:38:02.120
<v Speaker 1>He knew what he saw, and.

0:38:02.080 --> 0:38:03.720
<v Speaker 2>I was like, no, it was I didn't do an update.

0:38:03.719 --> 0:38:06.040
<v Speaker 2>That was no update. And then he got into such

0:38:06.080 --> 0:38:10.840
<v Speaker 2>denial he was adamant and quite nasty with it that

0:38:11.640 --> 0:38:15.880
<v Speaker 2>I completely made it up. I did not see it.

0:38:16.239 --> 0:38:17.960
<v Speaker 2>There was nothing on his profile.

0:38:20.120 --> 0:38:22.440
<v Speaker 1>It was the first time Leo had acted like this.

0:38:23.120 --> 0:38:27.279
<v Speaker 1>He was defensive and angry over something so small. He

0:38:27.360 --> 0:38:31.160
<v Speaker 1>knew it meant Leo might be hiding something. So Bernie

0:38:31.400 --> 0:38:32.279
<v Speaker 1>pulled back a bit.

0:38:33.160 --> 0:38:36.239
<v Speaker 2>I kind of slowed down message in him. I didn't

0:38:36.239 --> 0:38:39.080
<v Speaker 2>get a call again quite late at night, and it's

0:38:39.160 --> 0:38:42.160
<v Speaker 2>like I've just had a massive argument with my family.

0:38:42.840 --> 0:38:46.800
<v Speaker 1>On the other end of the phone, Leo was hysterical.

0:38:46.800 --> 0:38:48.839
<v Speaker 2>And he's like, Bernie, I can't take this. I can't

0:38:48.880 --> 0:38:51.719
<v Speaker 2>take this life anymore, the stress that I've been under.

0:38:52.160 --> 0:38:53.880
<v Speaker 2>I just don't like my family. I don't want to

0:38:53.880 --> 0:38:56.600
<v Speaker 2>do this anymore. Can you come and get me? So,

0:38:56.960 --> 0:39:01.000
<v Speaker 2>of course I've then said yes instantly, where are you

0:39:01.040 --> 0:39:02.640
<v Speaker 2>calm down, stay on the phone with me.

0:39:04.840 --> 0:39:07.600
<v Speaker 1>Leo sent an address. It was a five hour drive

0:39:07.640 --> 0:39:10.840
<v Speaker 1>from London, so Bernie got in the car and stayed

0:39:10.880 --> 0:39:13.120
<v Speaker 1>on the phone with Leo while he drove through the

0:39:13.239 --> 0:39:16.120
<v Speaker 1>night to meet him. At two am, he picked up

0:39:16.200 --> 0:39:18.000
<v Speaker 1>Leo and brought them to a hotel.

0:39:19.160 --> 0:39:22.360
<v Speaker 2>We stayed the night. We had a long conversation about

0:39:22.360 --> 0:39:24.960
<v Speaker 2>his stress levels, and he's sorry that he's been distant

0:39:25.040 --> 0:39:27.200
<v Speaker 2>and he doesn't how to cope with this, as well

0:39:27.239 --> 0:39:31.560
<v Speaker 2>as his diagnosis. And at the end of this he'll

0:39:31.560 --> 0:39:33.680
<v Speaker 2>get the watch. He's going to go down, he'll get it,

0:39:33.840 --> 0:39:36.279
<v Speaker 2>and if he hasn't got it by this point, he

0:39:36.320 --> 0:39:38.560
<v Speaker 2>will give me the money and then sell it on himself.

0:39:39.120 --> 0:39:41.759
<v Speaker 2>And I just felt seeing and he was in tears.

0:39:42.800 --> 0:39:45.719
<v Speaker 2>He went asleep and I was stroking his hair. It

0:39:45.880 --> 0:39:51.120
<v Speaker 2>was as if this guy was broken, broken with life.

0:39:51.400 --> 0:39:55.000
<v Speaker 1>There in the hotel room, Bernie finally fell close to

0:39:55.080 --> 0:39:59.120
<v Speaker 1>Leo again. Leo needed him, and Bernie would do anything

0:39:59.160 --> 0:40:05.080
<v Speaker 1>to make him happy. The next morning, Leo seemed renewed,

0:40:05.520 --> 0:40:09.560
<v Speaker 1>back to his old self. He confessed to Bernie that

0:40:09.640 --> 0:40:14.080
<v Speaker 1>he had been hiding something. Now he was finally ready

0:40:14.120 --> 0:40:15.680
<v Speaker 1>to talk about it.

0:40:15.680 --> 0:40:18.680
<v Speaker 2>It's like, so, I've got a serious question that I

0:40:18.760 --> 0:40:20.839
<v Speaker 2>need to ask you, and I've been thinking about this

0:40:21.200 --> 0:40:23.920
<v Speaker 2>with everything that's been going on. And I was like okay,

0:40:24.400 --> 0:40:27.800
<v Speaker 2>and he was like, I've had enough of this entire

0:40:28.760 --> 0:40:32.560
<v Speaker 2>life that I have to do and I'm done with it.

0:40:33.200 --> 0:40:35.880
<v Speaker 2>I want to move away. And he was like, I

0:40:35.920 --> 0:40:39.640
<v Speaker 2>want to move somewhere in Scotland. Would you come with me?

0:40:41.920 --> 0:40:44.359
<v Speaker 2>And I was like sorry, I was like what. I

0:40:44.400 --> 0:40:47.080
<v Speaker 2>was like, I've seen this house. I've been thinking about

0:40:47.080 --> 0:40:49.040
<v Speaker 2>this for a long time and I was going to

0:40:49.080 --> 0:40:51.280
<v Speaker 2>go on my own and that's why I've been distant

0:40:51.280 --> 0:40:52.719
<v Speaker 2>because I didn't know what I was going to do.

0:40:52.840 --> 0:40:54.759
<v Speaker 2>But I want you to come with me.

0:40:55.600 --> 0:40:58.480
<v Speaker 1>Leo was dead serious. He was ready to put in

0:40:58.520 --> 0:41:00.560
<v Speaker 1>an offer on a house because.

0:41:00.440 --> 0:41:06.280
<v Speaker 2>I've already contacted the estate agent. This house was a

0:41:06.440 --> 0:41:11.040
<v Speaker 2>full on castle in the Scottish Islands. When you think

0:41:11.160 --> 0:41:15.960
<v Speaker 2>the quintessential English castle, it was exactly that.

0:41:16.960 --> 0:41:20.120
<v Speaker 1>They looked at the listing together and started imagining a

0:41:20.160 --> 0:41:23.080
<v Speaker 1>new life there. They wouldn't have to hide from Leo's

0:41:23.120 --> 0:41:26.439
<v Speaker 1>family or the press. Bernie could take care of Leo

0:41:26.560 --> 0:41:30.680
<v Speaker 1>as his cancer progressed and whatever came next, they could

0:41:30.719 --> 0:41:31.520
<v Speaker 1>face it together.

0:41:32.800 --> 0:41:35.000
<v Speaker 2>It's like, I just wanted to be me and you

0:41:35.360 --> 0:41:40.319
<v Speaker 2>and I was like yes. And it's difficult now to

0:41:40.920 --> 0:41:47.279
<v Speaker 2>really kind of explain exactly how it felt, because his

0:41:47.560 --> 0:41:53.440
<v Speaker 2>world at certain points starts to crumble and he has

0:41:53.520 --> 0:41:57.040
<v Speaker 2>to get what he can do and run to create

0:41:57.120 --> 0:42:03.000
<v Speaker 2>another life for himself. In the end, it was all

0:42:03.000 --> 0:42:11.080
<v Speaker 2>a life.

0:42:23.040 --> 0:42:24.960
<v Speaker 1>Leo had been looking to buy a castle in the

0:42:25.000 --> 0:42:28.120
<v Speaker 1>Scottish countryside where he could live out the rest of

0:42:28.160 --> 0:42:31.680
<v Speaker 1>his life the way he wanted to with Bernie.

0:42:31.640 --> 0:42:33.480
<v Speaker 2>And he was like, I want to put an offer

0:42:33.480 --> 0:42:36.319
<v Speaker 2>in and move within the month. I'm just done with

0:42:36.360 --> 0:42:38.920
<v Speaker 2>all of this. I'm like, do you know what, We've

0:42:38.920 --> 0:42:40.960
<v Speaker 2>got one life, Let's do it.

0:42:47.080 --> 0:42:50.080
<v Speaker 1>Leo drove them back to London. It was a five

0:42:50.160 --> 0:42:53.640
<v Speaker 1>hour drive and they spent every minute of it planning

0:42:53.680 --> 0:42:54.640
<v Speaker 1>their new life.

0:42:55.440 --> 0:43:00.720
<v Speaker 2>We had designed this entire life, down to the jobs

0:43:00.760 --> 0:43:03.320
<v Speaker 2>we would do, the businesses we would build.

0:43:04.680 --> 0:43:09.440
<v Speaker 1>On their drive, Leo's grandparents called. They were nearby, so

0:43:09.560 --> 0:43:11.640
<v Speaker 1>Leo decided to meet up with them and spend the

0:43:11.680 --> 0:43:14.680
<v Speaker 1>rest of the day with his grandparents. Bernie could drive

0:43:14.719 --> 0:43:17.720
<v Speaker 1>the Bentley back to London, so halfway through their trip,

0:43:18.440 --> 0:43:21.120
<v Speaker 1>Leo pulled off at a gas station where his grandparents

0:43:21.120 --> 0:43:28.040
<v Speaker 1>were waiting. It was the first time Bernie had seen

0:43:28.080 --> 0:43:31.880
<v Speaker 1>anyone in Leo's family. Leo asked Bernie to act like

0:43:31.960 --> 0:43:33.160
<v Speaker 1>they were just friends.

0:43:33.800 --> 0:43:36.919
<v Speaker 2>He went over to this couple they must have been

0:43:37.440 --> 0:43:42.520
<v Speaker 2>in their late sixties, and his granddad went to go

0:43:42.640 --> 0:43:45.920
<v Speaker 2>to the bathroom. So I was like, okay, I need

0:43:45.920 --> 0:43:48.160
<v Speaker 2>to toilet anyway, So I was like, I'll go, and

0:43:48.200 --> 0:43:50.920
<v Speaker 2>then I went in and then he came in after me,

0:43:51.800 --> 0:43:52.960
<v Speaker 2>so I was like okay.

0:43:53.640 --> 0:43:55.960
<v Speaker 1>On the way out of the bathroom, Bernie struck up

0:43:56.000 --> 0:43:58.560
<v Speaker 1>a conversation with Leo's granddad and.

0:43:58.520 --> 0:44:00.399
<v Speaker 2>He was like, oh, well, we live in sus That's

0:44:00.400 --> 0:44:01.279
<v Speaker 2>where the castle was.

0:44:03.160 --> 0:44:05.960
<v Speaker 1>They chatted about life in Sussex, then headed back to

0:44:06.000 --> 0:44:09.640
<v Speaker 1>their cars. Leo went with his grandparents and Bernie drove

0:44:09.680 --> 0:44:13.279
<v Speaker 1>alone back to London. Bernie was excited about starting his

0:44:13.280 --> 0:44:16.400
<v Speaker 1>new life in Scotland, but his financial stress about the

0:44:16.440 --> 0:44:19.440
<v Speaker 1>watch was mounting. It wouldn't be ready to resell in

0:44:19.440 --> 0:44:21.160
<v Speaker 1>time for Bernie's next loan payment.

0:44:22.040 --> 0:44:25.719
<v Speaker 2>I'm panicking now. I'd missed one direct debit. February's was

0:44:25.760 --> 0:44:28.760
<v Speaker 2>coming up, and it still was not happening.

0:44:29.560 --> 0:44:32.880
<v Speaker 1>As the weeks went on, Bernie kept asking his boyfriend

0:44:32.960 --> 0:44:34.280
<v Speaker 1>for an update on the watch.

0:44:35.239 --> 0:44:39.359
<v Speaker 2>The watch is being almost dangled. It's like, oh, I'll

0:44:39.400 --> 0:44:41.160
<v Speaker 2>bring it up, can I I'll come up to yours.

0:44:41.239 --> 0:44:43.359
<v Speaker 2>I was like, okay, fine, I'll bring the watch up.

0:44:43.520 --> 0:44:46.719
<v Speaker 2>He'd get to the house. No watch, Oh I forgot it.

0:44:46.800 --> 0:44:50.640
<v Speaker 2>I didn't go home yet. For whatever reason, the watch

0:44:50.719 --> 0:44:55.440
<v Speaker 2>would always either be forgotten or once the cleaner accidentally

0:44:55.440 --> 0:44:57.560
<v Speaker 2>moved it and it was lost in the house somewhere,

0:44:57.920 --> 0:45:00.399
<v Speaker 2>so he needs to go back and look for it.

0:45:00.400 --> 0:45:02.720
<v Speaker 1>It was getting absurd that Leo couldn't get the watch

0:45:02.760 --> 0:45:06.080
<v Speaker 1>sorted out. Sure there was a lot happening in Leo's life,

0:45:06.440 --> 0:45:08.960
<v Speaker 1>but waiting this long was affecting Bernie's.

0:45:09.600 --> 0:45:13.640
<v Speaker 2>There was something inside that I was questioning a lot more,

0:45:14.840 --> 0:45:17.560
<v Speaker 2>but I was still hooked. I still agreed to go

0:45:17.600 --> 0:45:18.960
<v Speaker 2>to Scotland with him.

0:45:20.040 --> 0:45:23.120
<v Speaker 1>Just weeks before, Leo had needed Bernie to drive through

0:45:23.160 --> 0:45:25.920
<v Speaker 1>the night to be there for him. Leo showed him

0:45:25.920 --> 0:45:28.960
<v Speaker 1>the house he was putting an offer on. Now Bernie

0:45:29.040 --> 0:45:32.480
<v Speaker 1>wasn't even getting a text or a call back for days.

0:45:33.360 --> 0:45:37.280
<v Speaker 2>The gas lighting started. We'd have this call, for instance,

0:45:37.280 --> 0:45:39.840
<v Speaker 2>and what are you doing today. Let's have a call tonight. Yeah, okay,

0:45:40.480 --> 0:45:43.560
<v Speaker 2>And then we'd have a call arrange something, and then

0:45:43.600 --> 0:45:46.239
<v Speaker 2>he would be like, we didn't arrange it. I was like,

0:45:46.360 --> 0:45:48.040
<v Speaker 2>well we did, because you know, I put it here,

0:45:48.040 --> 0:45:49.719
<v Speaker 2>I put it in my diary. I put it. No,

0:45:50.360 --> 0:45:51.719
<v Speaker 2>we didn't have that conversation.

0:45:52.560 --> 0:45:55.720
<v Speaker 1>Bernie knew that Leo isolated when he was stressed about

0:45:55.719 --> 0:45:58.920
<v Speaker 1>his cancer or his family. Bernie wondered if things had

0:45:58.920 --> 0:46:02.200
<v Speaker 1>gotten worse, but all the worrying was starting to take

0:46:02.200 --> 0:46:03.600
<v Speaker 1>a toll on his own health.

0:46:07.080 --> 0:46:12.040
<v Speaker 2>End of January, February and beginning of March was and

0:46:12.160 --> 0:46:17.120
<v Speaker 2>still is, to a degree a blur. I got into

0:46:17.160 --> 0:46:21.560
<v Speaker 2>the worst state of mind. I had to take time

0:46:21.600 --> 0:46:26.400
<v Speaker 2>off of work for depression. I got massively depressed. I

0:46:26.400 --> 0:46:28.200
<v Speaker 2>lost so much weight I didn't eat.

0:46:29.120 --> 0:46:32.279
<v Speaker 1>Bernie knew something was wrong, and he started spiraling.

0:46:33.000 --> 0:46:38.240
<v Speaker 2>Of course, like anyone, I went straight into his seeing

0:46:38.280 --> 0:46:42.200
<v Speaker 2>somebody else mode, somebody else is on the scene, and

0:46:42.600 --> 0:46:46.719
<v Speaker 2>I went into that whole whirlwind. I did then do

0:46:46.800 --> 0:46:48.800
<v Speaker 2>something cheap because I was like, I can't do this normal,

0:46:49.160 --> 0:46:51.000
<v Speaker 2>I literally cannot do this anymore.

0:46:51.719 --> 0:46:55.280
<v Speaker 1>With Leo across the country, Bernie got an idea.

0:46:55.760 --> 0:46:58.720
<v Speaker 2>Do you know what, I think? I should download Grinder again.

0:46:59.600 --> 0:47:04.680
<v Speaker 2>And with Grinder you can change location and search for

0:47:04.760 --> 0:47:06.200
<v Speaker 2>profiles within that location.

0:47:07.080 --> 0:47:09.880
<v Speaker 1>So Bernie created a fake Grinder profile and set it

0:47:09.920 --> 0:47:10.840
<v Speaker 1>to Leo's location.

0:47:11.920 --> 0:47:15.800
<v Speaker 2>Now I knew his type, so I found a decent

0:47:15.840 --> 0:47:19.440
<v Speaker 2>looking ginger guy, put that on my profile, and I

0:47:19.600 --> 0:47:23.960
<v Speaker 2>spent a good day at the location looking through profiles

0:47:24.000 --> 0:47:29.320
<v Speaker 2>that didn't have pictures on Lo and behold, he found

0:47:29.320 --> 0:47:29.960
<v Speaker 2>my profile.

0:47:31.600 --> 0:47:35.520
<v Speaker 1>Leo sent the first message, so we're just talking.

0:47:35.560 --> 0:47:37.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, what do you do is I'm a horologist,

0:47:38.160 --> 0:47:41.200
<v Speaker 2>you know, I deal with watches, And he went straight

0:47:41.200 --> 0:47:43.560
<v Speaker 2>into you and I'm a part of the Howard family,

0:47:44.200 --> 0:47:47.080
<v Speaker 2>and then he sent me pictures it was him.

0:47:47.960 --> 0:47:50.520
<v Speaker 1>At the same time, Leo was talking to fake Bernie

0:47:50.520 --> 0:47:53.879
<v Speaker 1>on Grinder, he was avoiding real Bernie's texts.

0:47:54.400 --> 0:47:57.080
<v Speaker 2>He would reply to this person for literally about an hour,

0:47:58.440 --> 0:48:02.040
<v Speaker 2>but I'm getting no reply. So I'm like, do you

0:48:02.120 --> 0:48:07.319
<v Speaker 2>know what I'm done? Now? That's it. I need to

0:48:07.360 --> 0:48:09.919
<v Speaker 2>get this watch and I need to get it soon.

0:48:12.040 --> 0:48:14.200
<v Speaker 2>So I did actually confront him with it, and I

0:48:14.200 --> 0:48:16.000
<v Speaker 2>was like, I know you've been speaking to people, and

0:48:16.000 --> 0:48:18.360
<v Speaker 2>I sent him a screenshot of the profile, and of

0:48:18.400 --> 0:48:21.360
<v Speaker 2>course he was like, how dare you try putting it

0:48:21.400 --> 0:48:23.880
<v Speaker 2>on me? And I was like, I didn't do anything,

0:48:24.680 --> 0:48:27.040
<v Speaker 2>and I was like, you have no right and went

0:48:27.120 --> 0:48:28.520
<v Speaker 2>off on one and I'm like, do you know what,

0:48:28.600 --> 0:48:32.120
<v Speaker 2>it's absolutely fine, just give me the watch. That's when

0:48:32.120 --> 0:48:35.040
<v Speaker 2>he turned nasty. I was like, you're not getting the watch.

0:48:35.800 --> 0:48:37.080
<v Speaker 2>You don't deserve the watch.

0:48:38.000 --> 0:48:42.640
<v Speaker 1>Regardless of Leo's royal status or cancer diagnosis. Bernie wasn't

0:48:42.719 --> 0:48:44.919
<v Speaker 1>going to allow someone to speak to him that way.

0:48:45.600 --> 0:48:49.719
<v Speaker 1>He hung up. Then Leo started blowing up his phone.

0:48:50.280 --> 0:48:52.000
<v Speaker 2>You know, I really love you and all of this,

0:48:52.120 --> 0:48:53.279
<v Speaker 2>and what about Scotland.

0:48:54.080 --> 0:48:58.399
<v Speaker 1>Bernie told him he wasn't coming to Scotland. Their relationship

0:48:58.640 --> 0:49:02.600
<v Speaker 1>was over. The only thing he wanted from Leo was

0:49:02.640 --> 0:49:03.120
<v Speaker 1>the watch.

0:49:03.920 --> 0:49:05.479
<v Speaker 2>So he's like, look, I'm going to bring the watch.

0:49:05.520 --> 0:49:07.719
<v Speaker 2>It's finally ready. I was like, oh my god, I'm

0:49:07.760 --> 0:49:10.200
<v Speaker 2>actually going to get this watch now, and he was like,

0:49:10.200 --> 0:49:11.080
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to bring it down.

0:49:11.800 --> 0:49:14.040
<v Speaker 1>They set a time and place to meet.

0:49:14.320 --> 0:49:16.120
<v Speaker 2>He was like, are you're going to be okay seeing me?

0:49:16.680 --> 0:49:19.320
<v Speaker 2>You know it may be a strain, and I'm like, listen,

0:49:19.920 --> 0:49:21.680
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure I'm going to be fine. I just just

0:49:21.719 --> 0:49:25.800
<v Speaker 2>make sure you bring the watch turns up. No watch.

0:49:28.040 --> 0:49:30.600
<v Speaker 1>That was the last time they ever spoke.

0:49:31.120 --> 0:49:34.879
<v Speaker 2>I said enough is enough. I'm worth more than this,

0:49:35.360 --> 0:49:38.440
<v Speaker 2>and I blocked his number. I had just been like,

0:49:38.480 --> 0:49:41.600
<v Speaker 2>I'm never getting that watch. I need to deal with

0:49:41.600 --> 0:49:45.200
<v Speaker 2>what I can, and this is the position that I'm in.

0:49:45.880 --> 0:49:48.719
<v Speaker 1>Bernie says he was a shell of himself. Over the

0:49:48.760 --> 0:49:51.839
<v Speaker 1>course of nine months, his entire life had been rearranged.

0:49:52.480 --> 0:49:54.879
<v Speaker 1>All of his savings were gone, he had taken out

0:49:54.920 --> 0:49:58.560
<v Speaker 1>loans and maxed out every credit card he had. It

0:49:58.640 --> 0:50:00.440
<v Speaker 1>left Bernie in a dark place.

0:50:01.680 --> 0:50:04.759
<v Speaker 2>My best friends literally descended on my house and were like,

0:50:05.400 --> 0:50:07.680
<v Speaker 2>we've never seen you like this, and we need to

0:50:07.680 --> 0:50:12.080
<v Speaker 2>pick it up. If I didn't have my friends around

0:50:12.080 --> 0:50:14.759
<v Speaker 2>me at the time, I don't know if I would

0:50:14.800 --> 0:50:19.560
<v Speaker 2>actually be here to this day. I genuinely, genuinely.

0:50:19.120 --> 0:50:23.680
<v Speaker 1>Believe that Bernie's friend supported him emotionally, but he was

0:50:23.719 --> 0:50:25.800
<v Speaker 1>facing his financial crisis alone.

0:50:26.760 --> 0:50:32.080
<v Speaker 2>I had to just bow and say I can't afford it. Default,

0:50:32.320 --> 0:50:37.520
<v Speaker 2>and my credit score at one point went from the

0:50:37.640 --> 0:50:42.960
<v Speaker 2>highest it had ever been straight down to zero. I'd

0:50:42.960 --> 0:50:46.880
<v Speaker 2>never even seen zero on a credit score before I

0:50:46.920 --> 0:50:50.719
<v Speaker 2>was working in retail, and I had all this debt,

0:50:50.880 --> 0:50:52.560
<v Speaker 2>and the debts that were coming out on a monthly

0:50:52.600 --> 0:50:56.560
<v Speaker 2>basis because of everything that happened was higher than my

0:50:56.800 --> 0:51:00.000
<v Speaker 2>entire pay let alone, when you take away bills and

0:51:00.320 --> 0:51:01.839
<v Speaker 2>utilities and all of that.

0:51:02.520 --> 0:51:06.239
<v Speaker 1>Bernie was overwhelmed with shame. He was at risk of

0:51:06.280 --> 0:51:10.080
<v Speaker 1>getting his car repossessed or his wages garnished. He was

0:51:10.200 --> 0:51:12.960
<v Speaker 1>able to make a payment plan, but in the meantime

0:51:13.400 --> 0:51:15.000
<v Speaker 1>he had very little money to live on.

0:51:16.040 --> 0:51:19.840
<v Speaker 2>He didn't take an obscene amount of money from me

0:51:20.200 --> 0:51:26.280
<v Speaker 2>monetary wise, but what he did do was absolutely wipe

0:51:26.360 --> 0:51:29.640
<v Speaker 2>me out. At one point, I didn't have the money

0:51:29.680 --> 0:51:32.840
<v Speaker 2>to go to the shop to buy food. The monetary

0:51:33.080 --> 0:51:38.320
<v Speaker 2>amount for me, twenty thousand could have easily been five million.

0:51:39.440 --> 0:51:43.520
<v Speaker 2>It was all that I had to my name to survive.

0:51:44.800 --> 0:51:47.560
<v Speaker 1>Twenty thousand pounds was a drop in the bucket for Leo,

0:51:48.120 --> 0:51:51.319
<v Speaker 1>after all, his family lived in a historic castle, he

0:51:51.440 --> 0:51:56.000
<v Speaker 1>drove a Bentley. But twenty thousand pounds was everything to Bernie,

0:51:56.680 --> 0:51:57.839
<v Speaker 1>and Leo knew that.

0:51:58.600 --> 0:52:02.239
<v Speaker 2>I've reminded him time and again. He knew exactly what

0:52:02.719 --> 0:52:09.239
<v Speaker 2>my financial background was, what my current financial situation was.

0:52:09.320 --> 0:52:12.600
<v Speaker 2>He knew about all of that, but he still pushed

0:52:12.600 --> 0:52:15.360
<v Speaker 2>to take them credit cards. He knew all of that

0:52:15.520 --> 0:52:19.200
<v Speaker 2>was coming, and I reminded him many times every single day,

0:52:19.200 --> 0:52:23.879
<v Speaker 2>almost that this is hitting. He absolutely did not care.

0:52:25.160 --> 0:52:28.799
<v Speaker 1>Slowly, Bernie came to terms with his financial reality. He

0:52:28.880 --> 0:52:32.680
<v Speaker 1>continued leaning on his friends for emotional support. That's when

0:52:32.719 --> 0:52:36.080
<v Speaker 1>one of his friends said something he hadn't considered before.

0:52:37.239 --> 0:52:40.840
<v Speaker 1>This was theft he'd been robbed.

0:52:41.840 --> 0:52:44.719
<v Speaker 2>She was like, he's going to carry on doing it

0:52:44.760 --> 0:52:48.319
<v Speaker 2>to other people until somebody actually puts the stop to it.

0:52:49.400 --> 0:52:52.480
<v Speaker 2>At that point, I decided that actually I will contact

0:52:52.520 --> 0:52:54.919
<v Speaker 2>the police because this isn't right.

0:52:55.640 --> 0:52:58.440
<v Speaker 1>Bernie walked into the police station and filed a report.

0:52:59.160 --> 0:53:02.279
<v Speaker 2>They did take it so seriously. I gave everything I

0:53:02.320 --> 0:53:06.359
<v Speaker 2>had to them, and they had absolutely no idea who

0:53:06.840 --> 0:53:07.759
<v Speaker 2>this person was.

0:53:08.520 --> 0:53:13.120
<v Speaker 1>According to the police database, Leo Howard didn't exist.

0:53:13.960 --> 0:53:18.120
<v Speaker 2>I emailed Arundel Castle, which is the official residence of

0:53:18.160 --> 0:53:22.280
<v Speaker 2>the Duke of Norfolk, and there was absolutely no record

0:53:22.360 --> 0:53:27.200
<v Speaker 2>of Leo Howard, Leo Bose Howard, or absolutely anything. So

0:53:27.280 --> 0:53:31.160
<v Speaker 2>then I started doing my own research, but there was

0:53:31.440 --> 0:53:33.360
<v Speaker 2>absolutely no trace.

0:53:34.600 --> 0:53:38.320
<v Speaker 1>Bernie knew the VIN numbers to Leo's range, Rover and Bentley.

0:53:38.280 --> 0:53:41.840
<v Speaker 2>All of the car registration numbers had completely been erased,

0:53:42.600 --> 0:53:45.279
<v Speaker 2>which is very hard to do. I don't know how

0:53:45.320 --> 0:53:46.040
<v Speaker 2>that's possible.

0:53:46.800 --> 0:53:50.319
<v Speaker 1>The VIN numbers weren't listed on any database. It was

0:53:50.360 --> 0:53:54.960
<v Speaker 1>like the cars never existed. But Bernie remembered riding in

0:53:55.000 --> 0:54:01.279
<v Speaker 1>those cars, driving those cars. It was all so he

0:54:01.440 --> 0:54:04.160
<v Speaker 1>was starting to wonder what was even real.

0:54:05.160 --> 0:54:10.319
<v Speaker 2>It was as if I had completely imagined the entire year,

0:54:11.080 --> 0:54:15.760
<v Speaker 2>completely imagined it, because this person just did not exist.

0:54:16.480 --> 0:54:20.040
<v Speaker 1>Leo had vanished into thin air. Even the police had

0:54:20.120 --> 0:54:22.160
<v Speaker 1>hit a dead end.

0:54:23.239 --> 0:54:27.000
<v Speaker 2>The police could not recognize his picture. They had to

0:54:27.040 --> 0:54:31.319
<v Speaker 2>just close the investigation. It must have been a good

0:54:32.080 --> 0:54:35.279
<v Speaker 2>year later and I get a call when it comes

0:54:35.320 --> 0:54:38.120
<v Speaker 2>up and it's the police officer that was originally dealing

0:54:38.200 --> 0:54:41.040
<v Speaker 2>with the case. Then I answered, and there was a

0:54:41.160 --> 0:54:43.680
<v Speaker 2>nice of tears, you know, how are you? And then

0:54:43.719 --> 0:54:47.879
<v Speaker 2>he said, do you watch Channel four? And I said,

0:54:47.880 --> 0:54:51.800
<v Speaker 2>to be honest, no, And he said, right, okay, there's

0:54:51.960 --> 0:54:56.560
<v Speaker 2>this documentary that's just been shown on Channel four, and

0:54:56.600 --> 0:55:00.000
<v Speaker 2>from that I've been given a case. And he said,

0:55:00.000 --> 0:55:04.000
<v Speaker 2>and everything that's been described in the case and on

0:55:04.080 --> 0:55:08.200
<v Speaker 2>the documentary is almost identical to my story.

0:55:08.920 --> 0:55:12.240
<v Speaker 1>Bernie had no idea that across the country. Other people

0:55:12.280 --> 0:55:15.080
<v Speaker 1>had been reporting a very similar crime to the police.

0:55:15.680 --> 0:55:19.640
<v Speaker 1>A broader case was developing. In fact, the story was

0:55:19.680 --> 0:55:23.520
<v Speaker 1>already out as a true crime documentary. It was about

0:55:23.520 --> 0:55:27.439
<v Speaker 1>a prolific and highly manipulative scam artist operating all over

0:55:27.480 --> 0:55:32.040
<v Speaker 1>the UK. The detective calling wanted to know if Bernie

0:55:32.080 --> 0:55:34.239
<v Speaker 1>recognized the man at the center of it.

0:55:34.960 --> 0:55:38.600
<v Speaker 2>He said, can you just google and have a look.

0:55:40.040 --> 0:55:43.280
<v Speaker 2>As soon as he said that, I had that sinking feeling.

0:55:44.080 --> 0:55:49.879
<v Speaker 2>My heart dropped to the ground. I knew it would

0:55:49.920 --> 0:55:55.719
<v Speaker 2>be him. My hands started shaking and my brain went

0:55:55.800 --> 0:55:59.000
<v Speaker 2>completely dead on just how to google something by manager.

0:55:59.080 --> 0:56:04.200
<v Speaker 2>I got there and it was his face.

0:56:25.120 --> 0:56:28.080
<v Speaker 1>A year after Bernie first went to the police, he

0:56:28.200 --> 0:56:31.400
<v Speaker 1>got a call from a detective. They'd linked his report

0:56:31.440 --> 0:56:34.920
<v Speaker 1>to a serial fraudster, someone who'd been conning men and

0:56:35.000 --> 0:56:38.080
<v Speaker 1>women across the UK with the same mix of charm,

0:56:38.360 --> 0:56:39.880
<v Speaker 1>money and elaborate lies.

0:56:40.760 --> 0:56:43.920
<v Speaker 2>There was a lot of press around it, and I

0:56:44.160 --> 0:56:47.800
<v Speaker 2>broke down. I absolutely broke down in tears.

0:56:48.840 --> 0:56:52.880
<v Speaker 1>The story had exploded. Leo's face was all over the news.

0:56:53.880 --> 0:56:57.240
<v Speaker 1>After Bernie got over the initial shock, a new feeling

0:56:57.280 --> 0:56:58.359
<v Speaker 1>flooded him.

0:56:58.719 --> 0:57:04.680
<v Speaker 2>The wave of relief. Now I have proof that it happens.

0:57:05.320 --> 0:57:07.600
<v Speaker 2>Because bear in mind, at that point, the only person

0:57:07.640 --> 0:57:10.759
<v Speaker 2>who had ever met him was my best friend. We

0:57:10.840 --> 0:57:13.640
<v Speaker 2>went out for one night. Apart from that, he didn't

0:57:13.640 --> 0:57:16.800
<v Speaker 2>want to meet anyone. He didn't want to be photographed

0:57:17.360 --> 0:57:19.680
<v Speaker 2>anyone that I told this story to. There was always,

0:57:19.720 --> 0:57:22.760
<v Speaker 2>i'm sure, an element of doubt because it was so

0:57:23.160 --> 0:57:27.200
<v Speaker 2>extraordinary to happen to me or to anyone. When I

0:57:27.280 --> 0:57:33.520
<v Speaker 2>saw this, it was that feeling, that overwhelming, almost joyous

0:57:33.880 --> 0:57:38.080
<v Speaker 2>feeling of I told you this did happen.

0:57:41.760 --> 0:57:45.240
<v Speaker 1>There were dozens of articles. Bernie clicked on one about

0:57:45.240 --> 0:57:49.080
<v Speaker 1>a woman who discovered her fiance was a fraud. He

0:57:49.120 --> 0:57:52.440
<v Speaker 1>built a five year relationship in order to scam her

0:57:52.600 --> 0:57:55.360
<v Speaker 1>out of thirty thousand pounds.

0:57:55.480 --> 0:57:59.520
<v Speaker 2>I read the article, and everything that happened to me,

0:58:00.760 --> 0:58:01.520
<v Speaker 2>it happened to her.

0:58:02.440 --> 0:58:06.000
<v Speaker 1>Bernie knew that the documentary might hold answers to as

0:58:06.080 --> 0:58:08.240
<v Speaker 1>many unanswered questions about Leo.

0:58:09.240 --> 0:58:13.000
<v Speaker 2>We sat down and we watched it, and as soon

0:58:13.040 --> 0:58:18.880
<v Speaker 2>as I press play, it starts with his face again.

0:58:19.000 --> 0:58:25.360
<v Speaker 2>I got that sinking feeling. It was surreal scene.

0:58:25.520 --> 0:58:29.400
<v Speaker 1>After seeing Bernie realized he'd lived the same exact moments

0:58:29.600 --> 0:58:34.240
<v Speaker 1>with the same con man. The luxury watch business, a scam,

0:58:34.640 --> 0:58:36.720
<v Speaker 1>the cancer diagnosis fake.

0:58:38.080 --> 0:58:41.840
<v Speaker 2>I'm heightened at that point, and the Bentley came up,

0:58:41.960 --> 0:58:44.480
<v Speaker 2>and I was like, that's that was the Bentley and

0:58:44.680 --> 0:58:47.840
<v Speaker 2>the watch that I was handling, and the watch that

0:58:48.200 --> 0:58:53.040
<v Speaker 2>I was supposed to be buying was actually in the documentary,

0:58:53.200 --> 0:58:56.040
<v Speaker 2>just even little parts of the story. I was like, Yes,

0:58:56.080 --> 0:58:56.640
<v Speaker 2>he told me.

0:58:56.640 --> 0:59:01.600
<v Speaker 1>That, even though it was someone else's story, it was

0:59:01.640 --> 0:59:06.880
<v Speaker 1>like watching his own true crime documentary. Andy learned Leo

0:59:07.000 --> 0:59:09.200
<v Speaker 1>had a dozen aliases.

0:59:09.640 --> 0:59:14.320
<v Speaker 2>After the documentary, I did get emotional because I think

0:59:14.480 --> 0:59:19.520
<v Speaker 2>that then sunk in exactly the severity of what was happening.

0:59:20.360 --> 0:59:25.400
<v Speaker 2>I was just a number at that point. Straight Away

0:59:25.840 --> 0:59:29.840
<v Speaker 2>I found the woman in the documentary on social media

0:59:30.240 --> 0:59:32.920
<v Speaker 2>and connected, and I remember the first message was like,

0:59:33.880 --> 0:59:37.760
<v Speaker 2>you don't know me. I've just seen your documentary. And

0:59:38.200 --> 0:59:41.520
<v Speaker 2>I met him such and such date. She came back

0:59:41.720 --> 0:59:44.840
<v Speaker 2>and we had a few telephone conversations.

0:59:45.480 --> 0:59:48.720
<v Speaker 1>They had so much in common. This other victim helped

0:59:48.760 --> 0:59:51.520
<v Speaker 1>Bernie fill in the gaps in his knowledge and piece

0:59:51.600 --> 0:59:56.120
<v Speaker 1>together a timeline. Most shocking of all, he learned.

0:59:56.120 --> 0:59:59.680
<v Speaker 2>Three weeks before he had messaged me, he had actually

1:00:00.080 --> 1:00:06.160
<v Speaker 2>absconded from prison. He was serving a sentence for fraud

1:00:06.840 --> 1:00:09.520
<v Speaker 2>and he was on the run when he met me.

1:00:10.360 --> 1:00:14.880
<v Speaker 1>Looking back, this explained something about Leo's behavior, how he

1:00:14.960 --> 1:00:18.160
<v Speaker 1>was always nervous around the police.

1:00:18.400 --> 1:00:22.120
<v Speaker 2>He never really liked the police. He was kind of

1:00:22.160 --> 1:00:23.880
<v Speaker 2>scared of the police, to the point he would wait

1:00:23.880 --> 1:00:26.040
<v Speaker 2>around the corney if there was police cars from driving past.

1:00:26.080 --> 1:00:26.640
<v Speaker 2>He was scared.

1:00:27.360 --> 1:00:30.760
<v Speaker 1>When Bernie met Leo, he wasn't in that campground because

1:00:30.800 --> 1:00:33.200
<v Speaker 1>it was the only place he could be himself. He

1:00:33.280 --> 1:00:36.680
<v Speaker 1>was there because he was in hiding. Leo had escaped

1:00:36.880 --> 1:00:39.560
<v Speaker 1>while he was serving a five year prison sentence for

1:00:39.640 --> 1:00:44.040
<v Speaker 1>defrauding another victim, and there were many more. He had

1:00:44.120 --> 1:00:45.520
<v Speaker 1>victims across England.

1:00:46.440 --> 1:00:50.760
<v Speaker 2>There was me and one other person in the north

1:00:50.840 --> 1:00:56.840
<v Speaker 2>of London. All the other victims were in the south

1:00:56.880 --> 1:01:02.440
<v Speaker 2>of England, in Kent in Sussex. The person that was

1:01:02.480 --> 1:01:06.520
<v Speaker 2>in the documentary was in the Isle of Wight when

1:01:06.600 --> 1:01:10.680
<v Speaker 2>he escaped from prison. He had then obviously traveled and

1:01:10.720 --> 1:01:11.680
<v Speaker 2>he was in hiding.

1:01:12.560 --> 1:01:16.120
<v Speaker 1>What was so chilling to Bernie was that the.

1:01:16.200 --> 1:01:23.080
<v Speaker 2>Time the documentary was being filmed was when I was

1:01:23.120 --> 1:01:23.720
<v Speaker 2>with him.

1:01:24.360 --> 1:01:27.800
<v Speaker 1>And Bernie wasn't the only person Leo was scamming while

1:01:27.800 --> 1:01:31.880
<v Speaker 1>he was on the run. Remember Leo's grandparents, who Bernie

1:01:31.960 --> 1:01:33.040
<v Speaker 1>met at the gas station.

1:01:34.160 --> 1:01:37.400
<v Speaker 2>I told the police my story and I said, look,

1:01:37.600 --> 1:01:41.040
<v Speaker 2>I came into contact with his nana grandad. They're like, no,

1:01:42.040 --> 1:01:46.960
<v Speaker 2>that was another victim. I was like, wow, he was

1:01:46.960 --> 1:01:49.200
<v Speaker 2>doing exactly the same to them.

1:01:49.560 --> 1:01:53.760
<v Speaker 1>If Leo stayed behind bars, many people wouldn't have been victimized.

1:01:54.360 --> 1:01:57.360
<v Speaker 1>He was a fugitive. The police were looking for him,

1:01:57.960 --> 1:02:01.360
<v Speaker 1>but the problem was the pose weren't as savvy as Leo.

1:02:02.360 --> 1:02:06.720
<v Speaker 2>Now, we do have a national database which comes up,

1:02:07.440 --> 1:02:11.040
<v Speaker 2>but they didn't put him on that. So all the

1:02:11.040 --> 1:02:15.760
<v Speaker 2>time that I was with him, there were actually campaigns

1:02:15.800 --> 1:02:19.600
<v Speaker 2>to find this person. However, the police don't talk to

1:02:19.640 --> 1:02:23.160
<v Speaker 2>each other over here, and when I had raised my case,

1:02:23.680 --> 1:02:27.360
<v Speaker 2>they had no idea who it was until the documentary

1:02:27.600 --> 1:02:28.080
<v Speaker 2>came out.

1:02:28.880 --> 1:02:32.800
<v Speaker 1>That's when police stations across the country started connecting the dots.

1:02:34.640 --> 1:02:38.360
<v Speaker 2>Channel four had done so many press releases that it

1:02:38.640 --> 1:02:43.120
<v Speaker 2>really got the national scope, and I think we're on

1:02:43.200 --> 1:02:47.920
<v Speaker 2>about ten people that have come forward and raised a case.

1:02:49.120 --> 1:02:52.720
<v Speaker 2>Because of the heightened press and because all of this

1:02:52.920 --> 1:02:57.680
<v Speaker 2>was going around, he decided to hand himself in.

1:02:58.440 --> 1:03:02.040
<v Speaker 1>Leo was sent back to prison and Bernie hoped justice

1:03:02.080 --> 1:03:03.920
<v Speaker 1>would finally be served.

1:03:04.440 --> 1:03:09.040
<v Speaker 2>But he still qualified for early release. The mind boggles.

1:03:10.160 --> 1:03:11.840
<v Speaker 2>But that's where we are, and that's what we have

1:03:11.920 --> 1:03:14.080
<v Speaker 2>to deal with, and that's what we are currently facing.

1:03:16.720 --> 1:03:19.400
<v Speaker 1>Through this whole process, Bernie was able to get a

1:03:19.400 --> 1:03:23.640
<v Speaker 1>true understanding of who this man really was. He even

1:03:23.720 --> 1:03:26.640
<v Speaker 1>heard from people who knew the real Leo before he

1:03:26.680 --> 1:03:27.640
<v Speaker 1>became a criminal.

1:03:28.400 --> 1:03:32.600
<v Speaker 2>I've had so many messages over social media and TikTok

1:03:33.360 --> 1:03:36.400
<v Speaker 2>where people have gone to school with him, and he

1:03:36.520 --> 1:03:38.680
<v Speaker 2>used to make up stories to get people in trouble.

1:03:39.280 --> 1:03:45.160
<v Speaker 2>He naturally gravitated towards fraud from a very very early age.

1:03:45.400 --> 1:03:50.920
<v Speaker 2>His background is so far from the royal family it's unbelievable.

1:03:51.520 --> 1:03:57.440
<v Speaker 2>From my knowledge. He is Polish heritage, very broken upbringing,

1:03:58.160 --> 1:04:02.520
<v Speaker 2>and he, in all intents and purposes, created his own

1:04:02.560 --> 1:04:08.960
<v Speaker 2>system to survive. And his system was to fraudulently gain

1:04:09.440 --> 1:04:13.680
<v Speaker 2>money from anywhere he could to create the life that

1:04:14.000 --> 1:04:15.760
<v Speaker 2>he saw himself and that he wanted.

1:04:16.760 --> 1:04:19.600
<v Speaker 1>And the life he wanted was one where he was wealthy,

1:04:20.040 --> 1:04:21.760
<v Speaker 1>powerful and important.

1:04:23.680 --> 1:04:27.000
<v Speaker 2>He wanted to be part of the royal family setting

1:04:27.400 --> 1:04:33.360
<v Speaker 2>and he believed that he was destined for more. He

1:04:33.520 --> 1:04:37.840
<v Speaker 2>had created his own reality, and I think the longer

1:04:38.000 --> 1:04:41.560
<v Speaker 2>he believed it, the more he believed it.

1:04:43.040 --> 1:04:46.560
<v Speaker 1>Creating a string of fraudulent identities was more than just

1:04:46.600 --> 1:04:49.760
<v Speaker 1>a dream of being rich. It was pathological.

1:04:51.120 --> 1:04:56.080
<v Speaker 2>Every time he created this persona this person, he threw

1:04:56.200 --> 1:04:59.680
<v Speaker 2>himself so hard into it that he then started to

1:04:59.680 --> 1:05:03.760
<v Speaker 2>believe that he was this person. And I do think

1:05:03.800 --> 1:05:05.280
<v Speaker 2>there's mental issues there.

1:05:07.760 --> 1:05:10.840
<v Speaker 3>It's been three years since he met Leo, and Bernie

1:05:10.920 --> 1:05:14.200
<v Speaker 3>still questions Leo's true motivations.

1:05:14.840 --> 1:05:20.880
<v Speaker 2>Was his intention to outright going and commit fraud on

1:05:21.040 --> 1:05:24.560
<v Speaker 2>every single person that he encountered, or was it that

1:05:25.200 --> 1:05:30.120
<v Speaker 2>his world at certain points starts to crumble and he

1:05:30.200 --> 1:05:33.080
<v Speaker 2>has to get what he can do and run to

1:05:33.240 --> 1:05:37.960
<v Speaker 2>create another life for himself, that other life that he's

1:05:38.000 --> 1:05:39.640
<v Speaker 2>built up that is then crumbling.

1:05:40.640 --> 1:05:43.120
<v Speaker 1>He got back to their first date when he was

1:05:43.240 --> 1:05:46.680
<v Speaker 1>asked to take off his clothes. Was that a test?

1:05:47.720 --> 1:05:48.600
<v Speaker 1>Was it blackmail?

1:05:49.400 --> 1:05:52.440
<v Speaker 2>I've tried going back and be like, what did happen?

1:05:52.520 --> 1:05:58.960
<v Speaker 2>Why did it happen? I have absolutely no idea, but

1:05:59.080 --> 1:06:02.240
<v Speaker 2>I know it comes down to control.

1:06:22.320 --> 1:06:26.280
<v Speaker 1>After having his heart broken and his own financial stability destroyed,

1:06:27.080 --> 1:06:30.760
<v Speaker 1>Bernie learned who Leo truly was. He was left picking

1:06:30.840 --> 1:06:32.360
<v Speaker 1>up the pieces in the aftermath.

1:06:33.280 --> 1:06:38.480
<v Speaker 2>I don't know whether this is still my subconscious emotional tie,

1:06:39.160 --> 1:06:41.320
<v Speaker 2>but I think there is an element that he had

1:06:41.360 --> 1:06:45.880
<v Speaker 2>gone through so much and then he met me, and

1:06:47.080 --> 1:06:49.680
<v Speaker 2>he had said many times that he was gay, he

1:06:49.800 --> 1:06:53.000
<v Speaker 2>just couldn't be out. And I do believe that there's

1:06:53.320 --> 1:07:00.040
<v Speaker 2>an element that I wasn't his typical target, and he

1:07:00.120 --> 1:07:04.800
<v Speaker 2>wasn't there initially for money, and I do believe at

1:07:04.840 --> 1:07:10.640
<v Speaker 2>some point he did get emotionally connected, because going after

1:07:10.720 --> 1:07:13.760
<v Speaker 2>me for money wouldn't have made any sense.

1:07:14.760 --> 1:07:17.880
<v Speaker 1>Bernie still wonders if that dream of going to Scotland

1:07:17.960 --> 1:07:21.640
<v Speaker 1>together was a genuine offer to run away together.

1:07:22.640 --> 1:07:25.680
<v Speaker 2>At some point, I do believe that he thought that

1:07:25.800 --> 1:07:28.880
<v Speaker 2>he could get away from it all and escape with

1:07:29.000 --> 1:07:33.000
<v Speaker 2>me and live that life that he had in his

1:07:33.080 --> 1:07:37.680
<v Speaker 2>mind at the time. And I think potentially once it

1:07:38.000 --> 1:07:44.040
<v Speaker 2>started getting a bit too real with me, that's when

1:07:44.440 --> 1:07:49.320
<v Speaker 2>he went into what I would call default mode. And

1:07:49.400 --> 1:07:53.000
<v Speaker 2>that's when the watch came. Because the watch conversation came

1:07:53.600 --> 1:07:56.840
<v Speaker 2>very very late in the day, and then it ended

1:07:57.120 --> 1:08:00.240
<v Speaker 2>very very quick because he had to have an new

1:08:00.240 --> 1:08:03.080
<v Speaker 2>supply and obviously he couldn't leave empty handed.

1:08:04.040 --> 1:08:08.760
<v Speaker 1>Bernie's right. Leo never left empty handed. In fact, he

1:08:08.920 --> 1:08:12.600
<v Speaker 1>was running a major fraud scheme and the watches were

1:08:12.640 --> 1:08:13.600
<v Speaker 1>at the center of it.

1:08:14.480 --> 1:08:18.799
<v Speaker 2>Some businesses have come forward and said that that person

1:08:18.880 --> 1:08:24.320
<v Speaker 2>had sold them a fake watch, and bear in mind

1:08:24.439 --> 1:08:28.799
<v Speaker 2>these are big companies. They know how to evaluate watches.

1:08:30.280 --> 1:08:33.920
<v Speaker 1>As more information came out, he learned that Leo defrauded

1:08:33.920 --> 1:08:37.400
<v Speaker 1>Herod's department store out of a half a million pounds.

1:08:38.160 --> 1:08:39.960
<v Speaker 1>It was all part of Leo's scam.

1:08:40.960 --> 1:08:44.920
<v Speaker 2>He was on top of his game with regards to

1:08:45.080 --> 1:08:49.960
<v Speaker 2>watches that he knew how to see a fake, a

1:08:50.120 --> 1:08:53.640
<v Speaker 2>very good fake, and improve it to the level that

1:08:54.040 --> 1:09:00.240
<v Speaker 2>it was a very convincing actual piece. He scammed a

1:09:00.280 --> 1:09:04.160
<v Speaker 2>million pounds out of Harold's Like, you are a different level,

1:09:04.600 --> 1:09:08.640
<v Speaker 2>a completely different level when you can do that. The

1:09:08.840 --> 1:09:14.280
<v Speaker 2>knowledge that Leo had on watches, watch brands, the mechanics,

1:09:14.320 --> 1:09:18.240
<v Speaker 2>the mechanical workings, There's no doubt in my mind he

1:09:18.400 --> 1:09:22.800
<v Speaker 2>has studied watches for a long time.

1:09:23.800 --> 1:09:29.040
<v Speaker 1>Leo also knew cars. He scammed Bentley dealerships and financial institutions.

1:09:29.640 --> 1:09:32.639
<v Speaker 1>He always had multiple scams going at once.

1:09:34.080 --> 1:09:39.280
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely the mind boggles. I do not understand that.

1:09:40.360 --> 1:09:43.559
<v Speaker 1>In February twenty twenty five, Leo was sentenced to ten

1:09:43.600 --> 1:09:46.960
<v Speaker 1>months in prison for having absconded from his original fraud

1:09:47.000 --> 1:09:51.400
<v Speaker 1>conviction and five year sentence. It's unclear whether he will

1:09:51.439 --> 1:09:54.360
<v Speaker 1>be criminally charged with respect to his conduct. While he

1:09:54.439 --> 1:09:57.680
<v Speaker 1>was on the run, Bernie took to TikTok, where he

1:09:57.720 --> 1:10:01.879
<v Speaker 1>shared his story. Through that experience, he has found language

1:10:01.920 --> 1:10:04.479
<v Speaker 1>to describe Leo and what he did.

1:10:05.439 --> 1:10:11.520
<v Speaker 2>TikTok was instrumental in me healing and starting that healing process.

1:10:12.520 --> 1:10:16.000
<v Speaker 2>Somebody had commented on one of my posts and I

1:10:16.040 --> 1:10:20.240
<v Speaker 2>went onto their profile and they talk about narcissist and

1:10:20.360 --> 1:10:26.519
<v Speaker 2>narcissistic behavior, everything from the signs to the results of

1:10:26.680 --> 1:10:29.400
<v Speaker 2>what it actually does to you for the long term,

1:10:29.720 --> 1:10:33.759
<v Speaker 2>and instantly I was like, this is exactly what he

1:10:33.800 --> 1:10:41.080
<v Speaker 2>was doing. With the amount of gaslighting, love bombing, breadcrumbing,

1:10:41.760 --> 1:10:47.519
<v Speaker 2>you get so heavily sucked in that it does actually

1:10:47.640 --> 1:10:51.439
<v Speaker 2>change your makeup and it changes the way you think.

1:10:52.280 --> 1:10:55.200
<v Speaker 2>If you said in six months time, somebody is going

1:10:55.240 --> 1:10:56.479
<v Speaker 2>to be in your life and you are going to

1:10:56.479 --> 1:10:58.040
<v Speaker 2>be hanging on every word. You're not going to speak

1:10:58.040 --> 1:11:00.160
<v Speaker 2>to your friends, you're not going to speak to your family,

1:11:00.600 --> 1:11:04.880
<v Speaker 2>You're going to doubt everything that you say, I would

1:11:04.920 --> 1:11:07.160
<v Speaker 2>literally have a laugh and say, carry on drinking. It

1:11:07.160 --> 1:11:10.840
<v Speaker 2>would never happen to me. But it did.

1:11:12.439 --> 1:11:14.760
<v Speaker 1>He'll carry the experience with him for the rest of

1:11:14.800 --> 1:11:16.080
<v Speaker 1>his life.

1:11:16.120 --> 1:11:21.280
<v Speaker 2>Your trust in other people after this is almost non existent.

1:11:22.320 --> 1:11:26.080
<v Speaker 1>He lost a lot, But now Bernie is focused on

1:11:26.120 --> 1:11:26.920
<v Speaker 1>what he does have.

1:11:28.080 --> 1:11:30.920
<v Speaker 2>I have a beautiful soon to be a husband, and

1:11:31.200 --> 1:11:34.040
<v Speaker 2>I've got a little puppy, and I've got amazing friends

1:11:34.040 --> 1:11:40.639
<v Speaker 2>and family and actually neighbors. So I'm content. He will

1:11:40.800 --> 1:11:46.280
<v Speaker 2>never ever in his life have what I have sat

1:11:46.280 --> 1:11:50.639
<v Speaker 2>in this chair now, and I think that's just incredibly sad.

1:11:51.400 --> 1:11:55.519
<v Speaker 2>I don't hate him, I don't think too much other

1:11:55.600 --> 1:12:00.320
<v Speaker 2>than just sadness.

1:12:02.640 --> 1:12:05.200
<v Speaker 1>Bernie wants to be a resource for other people who've

1:12:05.240 --> 1:12:09.040
<v Speaker 1>been victims of scam artists and narcissists, and the best

1:12:09.040 --> 1:12:11.640
<v Speaker 1>way for him to do that is on his TikTok

1:12:12.120 --> 1:12:13.400
<v Speaker 1>at Berniet Brown.

1:12:15.120 --> 1:12:18.960
<v Speaker 2>When I went on and I saw the tiktoks around

1:12:19.040 --> 1:12:24.080
<v Speaker 2>narcissism and around the discard, the gas lighting, all of that,

1:12:24.080 --> 1:12:28.640
<v Speaker 2>that for me was just the awakening moment. Now I

1:12:28.680 --> 1:12:31.479
<v Speaker 2>can do that for somebody else out there, and it

1:12:31.479 --> 1:12:33.519
<v Speaker 2>does take a little bit of courage, especially if you're

1:12:33.520 --> 1:12:37.120
<v Speaker 2>going through it, or you are very fresh from a

1:12:37.200 --> 1:12:40.720
<v Speaker 2>narcissistic encounter. I just want to be that point of

1:12:40.760 --> 1:12:42.759
<v Speaker 2>call and be able to just listen.

1:12:47.120 --> 1:12:51.240
<v Speaker 1>We end every weekly episode with the same question, why

1:12:51.280 --> 1:12:53.960
<v Speaker 1>do you want to share your story?

1:12:54.640 --> 1:12:58.760
<v Speaker 2>I know for a fact that there's thousands of leos

1:12:58.960 --> 1:13:06.480
<v Speaker 2>around the world. That's why this conversation, I think is massively,

1:13:07.160 --> 1:13:11.280
<v Speaker 2>massively important. You know, if I'd have known about certain

1:13:11.320 --> 1:13:14.400
<v Speaker 2>things beforehand, maybe i'd have acted differently. Maybe I would't

1:13:14.400 --> 1:13:16.479
<v Speaker 2>have gone through what I'd have gone through. Maybe I'd

1:13:16.520 --> 1:13:20.240
<v Speaker 2>have acted differently halfway through, and I wouldn't have suffered

1:13:20.240 --> 1:13:23.240
<v Speaker 2>as much. But you know, what's happened to me is done.

1:13:23.960 --> 1:13:26.960
<v Speaker 2>But if I can share and open somebody else's eyes

1:13:27.240 --> 1:13:31.160
<v Speaker 2>and say, you know, if this ain't right, then it's

1:13:31.160 --> 1:13:31.599
<v Speaker 2>worth it.

1:13:38.400 --> 1:13:42.360
<v Speaker 1>On the next episode of Betrayal Weekly, I mean shark

1:13:42.400 --> 1:13:47.200
<v Speaker 1>and disbelief, like just nauseatingly sick. The reality, I guess

1:13:47.280 --> 1:13:49.439
<v Speaker 1>is slowly sinking in that my life is all a lie.

1:13:51.439 --> 1:13:54.120
<v Speaker 3>He's in the kitchen going to the coffee machine to

1:13:54.160 --> 1:13:55.720
<v Speaker 3>make himself an espresso.

1:13:56.200 --> 1:13:59.439
<v Speaker 1>And he literally looks at me and shrugs, and he's.

1:13:59.280 --> 1:14:11.200
<v Speaker 3>Like, so, oh, if you would like to reach out

1:14:11.240 --> 1:14:13.320
<v Speaker 3>to the Betrayal team or want to tell us your

1:14:13.360 --> 1:14:17.160
<v Speaker 3>Betrayal story, Email us at Betrayalpod at gmail dot com.

1:14:17.600 --> 1:14:21.760
<v Speaker 1>That's Betrayal Pod at gmail dot com, or follow us

1:14:21.840 --> 1:14:25.640
<v Speaker 1>on Instagram at Betrayal Pod. You can also connect with

1:14:25.720 --> 1:14:30.400
<v Speaker 1>me on Instagram at It's Andrea Gunning. To access our newsletter,

1:14:30.640 --> 1:14:34.360
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1:14:34.439 --> 1:14:37.240
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1:14:37.680 --> 1:14:40.759
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1:14:40.800 --> 1:14:43.760
<v Speaker 3>is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts and

1:14:43.800 --> 1:14:45.320
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1:14:45.760 --> 1:14:48.719
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1:14:48.760 --> 1:14:50.280
<v Speaker 1>you to all of our listeners.

1:14:51.080 --> 1:14:53.880
<v Speaker 3>Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of

1:14:53.920 --> 1:14:57.759
<v Speaker 3>Glass Entertainment Group and partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show

1:14:57.840 --> 1:15:01.599
<v Speaker 3>is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer, hosted and

1:15:01.640 --> 1:15:03.800
<v Speaker 3>produced by Me Andrea Gunning.

1:15:04.000 --> 1:15:08.000
<v Speaker 1>Written and produced by Olivia Hewitt and Monique Leboard, also

1:15:08.080 --> 1:15:09.360
<v Speaker 1>produced by Ben Fetterman.

1:15:10.360 --> 1:15:14.000
<v Speaker 3>Casting support from Curry Richmond. Our iHeart team is Ali

1:15:14.080 --> 1:15:15.560
<v Speaker 3>Perry and Jessica Krincheck.

1:15:16.360 --> 1:15:20.200
<v Speaker 1>Audio editing and mixing by Matt del Vecchio, additional audio

1:15:20.320 --> 1:15:21.719
<v Speaker 1>editing by Tanner Robbins.

1:15:22.360 --> 1:15:27.160
<v Speaker 3>Betrayal's theme composed by Oliver Bain's music library provided by

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