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Speaker 1: Hi, Betrayal listeners, it's under a Gunning. We're off this

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Speaker 1: week for Thanksgiving, but we'll be back next week. This week,

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Speaker 1: we wanted to re release a listener favorite, Bernie Brown's story.

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Speaker 1: We originally released it in two parts, but for this

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Speaker 1: re release, we're combining both parts. You can hear his

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Speaker 1: full story all at once. We'll be back next week

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Speaker 1: and in the meantime, Happy Thanksgiving for those celebrating. You're

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Speaker 1: so grateful for all of you listeners. Thank you for everything. So,

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Speaker 1: without further ado, here's Bernie's story.

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Speaker 2: So we sat down and he was like, he doesn't

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Speaker 2: believe in NDA, so he's not going to ask for

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Speaker 2: one of them. And I was just like, what the

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Speaker 2: hell is going on here? Like what is happening? And

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Speaker 2: it was like, Oh, do you know what? I think?

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Speaker 2: I need to tell you a little bit about my

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Speaker 2: family history.

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Speaker 1: I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, a show about

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Speaker 1: the people we trust the most and the deceptions that

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Speaker 1: change everything. Today I want to introduce you to Bernie Brown.

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Speaker 2: My entire life's being paycheck to paycheck. I'm just very

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Speaker 2: clever with it. I've cut my own hair for the

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Speaker 2: past twenty years and colored it because I'm like, well,

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Speaker 2: if somebody else can do that, why can't I do that.

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Speaker 1: While growing up in London, Bernie experienced a difficult upbringing.

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Speaker 2: My childhood was very rough. My mum was extremely strong,

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Speaker 2: but she was going through massive domestic violence with my

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Speaker 2: dad at one point, very very seriously, we're talking like hospitalization.

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Speaker 1: Bernie witnessed his dad's violence at a young age.

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Speaker 2: I do remember one time we'll go into the kitchen

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Speaker 2: and he had her up by a knife. I actually

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Speaker 2: still remember to this day the layout of the room.

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Speaker 2: I remember it very very vividly. She would be the

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Speaker 2: punching bag to make sure that we were never harmed.

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Speaker 1: His mom was a pillar of strength.

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Speaker 2: My mother. Everything I do and the person that I

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Speaker 2: am now is because of who she was and what

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Speaker 2: she showed me.

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Speaker 1: What Bernie remembers most about his mom was how she

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Speaker 1: always made everyone feel at home.

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Speaker 2: She was always very house proud, always cleaning. When I

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Speaker 2: hit school, my friends would come over to see her.

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Speaker 2: She was very much an open door. The door was

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Speaker 2: never locked, which was probably unsafe, but anyone knocked on

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Speaker 2: the door, anyone who needed help, regardless of whether she

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Speaker 2: had it or not, it would always be it yes,

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Speaker 2: and she was very very well known for that.

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Speaker 1: When Bernie came out as gay, my.

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Speaker 2: Family were lovely with I was very, very very lucky

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Speaker 2: that enabled me to actually be proud and celebrate it.

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Speaker 1: He began to explore the queer scene in London.

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Speaker 2: When you first come out as being gay, you've got

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Speaker 2: the big clubs, you know, the Jyre Storia, which has

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Speaker 2: closed down now. I spent many a happy even in there.

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Speaker 2: Shall we say.

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Speaker 1: Bernie was living his best life. It was a fun

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Speaker 1: and exciting time, but deep down he was looking for

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Speaker 1: real partnership.

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Speaker 2: I really wanted to find somebody to settle down with.

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Speaker 2: I just wanted that one on one connection. I don't

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Speaker 2: remember actually witnessing a stable relationship, and I think that's

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Speaker 2: why I so desperately needed one.

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Speaker 1: At age eighteen, Bernie found what he was looking for.

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Speaker 2: I met my first real boyfriend at the time in London.

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Speaker 2: We moved to Newcastle, we bought a house, we had

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Speaker 2: two dogs and two cars, and we had that life.

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Speaker 2: I must have been twenty two twenty three, and it

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Speaker 2: wasn't legal in the UK to get married at that point,

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Speaker 2: so what we did we threw a party and we

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Speaker 2: legally changed our names, so we kind of had our

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Speaker 2: little version of a wedding and it was just going amazingly.

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Speaker 1: He had everything he wanted and it was great for

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Speaker 1: about eight years, but.

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Speaker 2: Then it just didn't work. When that failed. We were

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Speaker 2: actually very close friends for about ten years after I

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Speaker 2: was best man at his wedding.

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Speaker 1: After their relationship ended, Bernie's mother's health started to decline.

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Speaker 1: At the age of forty six, she died of heart failure.

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Speaker 2: We had that time to say goodbye, which rarely do

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Speaker 2: people get. I could actually process it there and then,

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Speaker 2: and we both said what we felt and you know

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Speaker 2: what she wanted from us in life.

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Speaker 1: Now Bernie felt truly out on his own. He was

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Speaker 1: newly single and starting over in this city.

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Speaker 2: I was in London. Of course I had flings and

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Speaker 2: you know all of them that come with it. But

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Speaker 2: every single time I would never see somebody or sleep

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Speaker 2: with somebody and instantly just disregard. There would always be

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Speaker 2: an element of could disco further.

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Speaker 1: He was a romantic, but Bernie knew he had to

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Speaker 1: prioritize himself and his career. After years of working in retail,

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Speaker 1: Bernie wanted to start a brand of his own, so

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Speaker 1: he started saving everything he could to start his own

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Speaker 1: clothing brand.

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Speaker 2: I've never never had money at all, but I've always

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Speaker 2: worked very very hard for the money that I do have.

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Speaker 2: I've always wanted to work for myself, not answer to anyone.

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Speaker 2: So I started a clothing T shirt business, like my

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Speaker 2: own prints and selling them online. And I was like,

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Speaker 2: it's my time. Let me build something that's my own.

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Speaker 1: Even though Bernie was working a lot, he still wanted

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Speaker 1: to have a good time.

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Speaker 2: I don't need the relationship at the minute, but you know,

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Speaker 2: you need the physical side of it.

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Speaker 1: So he went on Grinder, the dating app for gay men.

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Speaker 2: So I was using it happily. I'd actually met some

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Speaker 2: quite good friends. Now. I actually do still remember the

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Speaker 2: message come through because I had a glass of wine

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Speaker 2: and I was sat with a glass of wine and

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Speaker 2: I got the famous I remember that there was something intriguing.

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Speaker 2: It was very well written and not the usual first

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Speaker 2: opening message that you get on that kind of app.

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Speaker 2: In a forward. Do you know a nice breath, fresh air.

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Speaker 2: There's nothing on her. I'll just entertain it.

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Speaker 1: His name was Leo, and Bernie had never seen him

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Speaker 1: on the app.

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Speaker 2: Before, I've not seen you around here before, and it

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Speaker 2: was like, no, I live in central London by Hyde Park,

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Speaker 2: just around the corner from Harrod to this, that and

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Speaker 2: the other. Instantly I was like, well hold on there

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Speaker 2: like twenty million pounds.

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Speaker 1: Bernie didn't know anyone with a house in Hyde Park.

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Speaker 1: That was a completely different world.

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Speaker 2: Bearing in mind it's grinder. You instantly just think, okay,

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Speaker 2: all right, this fictional whatever, so you entertain and I

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Speaker 2: was like, oh, lovely fine.

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Speaker 1: Leo was quick to ask him on a date.

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Speaker 2: He was like, I'm not big talking on these apps.

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Speaker 2: I'm around the corner. Why didn't you come over? Nothing untoward.

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Speaker 2: He was like, just you know, let me cook you

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Speaker 2: some dinner and we'll just have a glass of wine.

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Speaker 2: And I then was like, oh, this is very sweet.

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Speaker 2: He's very well spoke.

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Speaker 1: In addition to his apartment in London, Leo also had

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Speaker 1: a luxury trailer, an airstream that he kept at a

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Speaker 1: high end campground.

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Speaker 2: They've got their own unique gardens and plots and all

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Speaker 2: of these it's beautiful. So I was like, okay, this

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Speaker 2: is nice.

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Speaker 1: And there's this.

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Speaker 2: Big, beautiful white range Rover that was sat next to it.

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Speaker 2: He was very articulate, and he did speak Queen's English.

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Speaker 2: It's very smooth, that pronounces every word as intended by

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Speaker 2: her Majesty, the Queen. I was like, oh my god,

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Speaker 2: I need to like you know, I need to up

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Speaker 2: it a notch.

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Speaker 1: Leo made a delicious dinner.

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Speaker 2: Instantly I was taken in just his charm. I've never

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Speaker 2: met anybody with that smooth charm that isn't patronizing. It

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Speaker 2: just was focused on me and we had an amazing meal.

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Speaker 1: Bernie was really enjoying himself. He liked talking to Leo

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Speaker 1: and they bonded over cars.

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Speaker 2: He went through his picture gallery and he had all

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Speaker 2: of these cars. We had the Bentley's, we had Aston Martin's,

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Speaker 2: we had quite a few range Rovers, some old classics,

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Speaker 2: and he was just flicking through and he was like,

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Speaker 2: this is my pride and joy I love cars and

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Speaker 2: this and the other.

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Speaker 1: The pictures also showed that Leo had serious money, a

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Speaker 1: lot of it.

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Speaker 2: You can kind of tell where somebody's got old money

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Speaker 2: or new money. New money is very much the designer

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Speaker 2: head to toe, and all of this old money is

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Speaker 2: you can't really tell if they've got money they're the chinos,

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Speaker 2: the nice shirt, the neck tie, that kind and that's

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Speaker 2: how he was.

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Speaker 1: But Bernie didn't understand why he asked him to come

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Speaker 1: to his trailer instead of his London apartment.

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Speaker 2: At that point, he just said he was from a

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Speaker 2: very influential family within the UK and because of his family,

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Speaker 2: he can't be out, he can't be gay, so to

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Speaker 2: escape all of the craziness, he needs somewhere to get away.

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Speaker 2: And he said nobody knows about this caravan, like his

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Speaker 2: family don't know, security doesn't know. So for him, it's

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Speaker 2: just his little getaway to just be himself. So I

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Speaker 2: was like, okay, fine, but at that point I didn't

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Speaker 2: know who his family was.

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Speaker 1: Bernie ended up staying and hanging out with Leo for hours.

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Speaker 2: It got dark, it must have been around about eleven

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Speaker 2: to twelve o'clock at night. It was like, oh, let's

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Speaker 2: go inside, let's go in the caravan, and we sat

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Speaker 2: in the sofa area and just had a conversation where

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Speaker 2: there's something very weird that happened. It was like, jumned,

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Speaker 2: if I ask you to do something, can you just

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Speaker 2: undress in front of me. I won't touch I won't

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Speaker 2: do anything like that buried in wait. I probably had

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Speaker 2: a bottle of wine. So I did and I got

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Speaker 2: naked and he didn't and it was like just turn

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Speaker 2: around for me and that was it. And I was like, okay,

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Speaker 2: you can get dressed now. I was like, what was

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Speaker 2: all that about. It was just like I've not been

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Speaker 2: with many men, so I'm a little bit nervous. Instantly,

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Speaker 2: I was like, oh, that's so sweet.

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Speaker 1: They kissed good night and Bernie got a taxi home.

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Speaker 2: Next morning, I woke up and of course there was

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Speaker 2: the most beautiful message that was on my phone and

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Speaker 2: he was like, look, I really want to see you again.

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Speaker 2: I can't get you out of my mind, this and

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Speaker 2: the other, and we just had normal conversation through the day.

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Speaker 2: I just started feeling a bit warm. I was just like,

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Speaker 2: is this really happening.

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Speaker 1: They decided on a second date.

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Speaker 2: So again I went over. We had something to eat.

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Speaker 2: The conversation was effortless, the subjects, it was just it

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Speaker 2: was so smooth. It was as if I'd known him

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Speaker 2: for years. It was so easy. And then we started

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Speaker 2: kissing and this, that and the other, and then he

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Speaker 2: I remember he started coughing and I was like oh,

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Speaker 2: is everything okay? And it was like, yeah, it's fine.

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Speaker 2: I'm just I'm very, very nervous. So I was like, listen,

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Speaker 2: let's just sit, take it slow, and you know, see

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Speaker 2: where we go. Nothing has to happen. And then we

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Speaker 2: went back to it and with things were happening, and

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Speaker 2: then he kind of had a coughing fit and he

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Speaker 2: actually got really serious that. I was like, I'll get

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Speaker 2: you a glass of water. I got in a glass

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Speaker 2: of water and he would not stop coughing. So I

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Speaker 2: was like, I'm just going to step outside because by

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Speaker 2: this point he was bringing things up. It was not

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Speaker 2: romantic at all. And I was outside for about about

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Speaker 2: ten minutes and all you could hear was this hacking up.

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Speaker 2: And at that point I stood there and I was

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Speaker 2: like what do I do? Do I go do? I

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Speaker 2: just like leave? But then my car keys are in there.

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Speaker 2: This is really awkward. So then he called me back

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Speaker 2: in and we had this conversation and he just apologized,

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Speaker 2: and that's when he said that he's got a few

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Speaker 2: health issues and it's like he's getting them checked up

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Speaker 2: and it's nothing too serious to worry about at the minute.

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Speaker 2: And he was like so apologetic I was like, honestly,

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Speaker 2: it's fine, let's just watch something. Calm down. I was like,

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Speaker 2: it's generally not a big deal.

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Speaker 1: After Leo recovered from his coughing that Bernie stayed and

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Speaker 1: they ended up having a really lovely evening.

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Speaker 2: We had a few dates at that point. It was like,

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Speaker 2: can I come to yours? So I was like, do

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Speaker 2: you know what, Yes, come to mine. I will cook

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Speaker 2: us a nice meal. And then that's the first time

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Speaker 2: that he came round and he brought the Bentley. This

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00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:09,160
Speaker 2: Bentley Continental white thing pulled up and I was like,

240
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Speaker 2: what the hell is this.

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Speaker 1: Bernie had seen the pictures of Leo's cars, but he

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Speaker 1: was skeptical that Leo really owned all of them.

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Speaker 2: All the way up until that point, and that was

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Speaker 2: a few weeks in. I took everything with a pinch

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Speaker 2: of salt. And then I think that was the first

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Speaker 2: time when the Bentley pulled up, I'm like, but hold on,

247
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Speaker 2: if this is true.

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Speaker 1: The Bentley was impressive.

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Speaker 2: I'd never even been close to a Bentley jorna ride,

250
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Speaker 2: so I was like, yes, I was like, come on.

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Speaker 2: So I got in and we went for a drive,

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Speaker 2: and oh my god, it goes fast. Beautiful car.

253
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Speaker 1: Later that night, when they were deep in conversation.

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Speaker 2: It slipped in and I was like, oh, I've got

255
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Speaker 2: to go down to the Castle today for whatever event

256
00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:57,240
Speaker 2: I have to. I'm being dragged down and I was

257
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Speaker 2: like Castle, what's this? And he was like, oh, do

258
00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:04,480
Speaker 2: you know what? I think? I need to tell you

259
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Speaker 2: a little bit about my family history.

260
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Speaker 1: Bernie was really enjoying getting to know Leo, a guy

261
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Speaker 1: he met on Grinder. He knew Leo came from money,

262
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Speaker 1: and after a few dates, he confided in Bernie about

263
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Speaker 1: his family's backstory.

264
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Speaker 2: So we sat down and he was like, right, he

265
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Speaker 2: doesn't believe in NDA, so he's not going to ask

266
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Speaker 2: for one of them. And I was just like, what

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Speaker 2: the hell is going on here?

268
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Speaker 1: Like what is happening a non disclosure agreement? Bernie wasn't following,

269
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Speaker 1: but then.

270
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Speaker 2: He opened up with do you know who the Norfolks are?

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Speaker 2: And I said no, I have no idea who that is.

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Speaker 2: So then he went through the family history. So it

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Speaker 2: was like, my dad's brother is the Duke of Norfolk.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know who that was. He was like, the

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Speaker 2: Duke of Norfolk is the highest peerage in the UK

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Speaker 2: outside of the royal family, so it's literally the royal

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Speaker 2: family then the estate of the Duke of Norfolk. They're

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Speaker 2: bloodline royals, they're just not direct in line to the front. Obviously.

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00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:30,520
Speaker 2: I had a little look on Google and you can

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Speaker 2: see on his profile who the Duke of Norfolk and

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00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,800
Speaker 2: the immense responsibility that he has within Britain. So I

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Speaker 2: was like, okay, fine, so that's your dad's brother. He

283
00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:42,120
Speaker 2: was like yeah.

284
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Speaker 1: And Leo's title.

285
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Speaker 2: He was Viscount Norfolk.

286
00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:50,080
Speaker 1: The second and the castle he'd mentioned offhand was a

287
00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:54,920
Speaker 1: Rundel Castle, a thousand year old architectural masterpiece in the

288
00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:56,240
Speaker 1: south of England.

289
00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:58,520
Speaker 2: And it was like, let me show you something, because

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00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:01,600
Speaker 2: at that point he'd brung an over andy bag and

291
00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:08,040
Speaker 2: he had this cartier box, quite slim, and opened it.

292
00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:12,040
Speaker 2: It was a crest with flower spikes all around. It

293
00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:16,919
Speaker 2: was a circular shape with the Saint George's cross in

294
00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:19,919
Speaker 2: the middle, then had some inscriptions on it and it

295
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:23,920
Speaker 2: had the House of Norfolk and fitz Allen, and he said,

296
00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:26,960
Speaker 2: we have to carry this everywhere we go, badges and

297
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:30,159
Speaker 2: emblems and crests, because if somebody passes they need it

298
00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:32,760
Speaker 2: instantly for a sign of respect and all this. I

299
00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:35,879
Speaker 2: held it. It was so heavy and I was just like,

300
00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:37,960
Speaker 2: what is going on in my life? Ride this minute

301
00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:43,040
Speaker 2: in time? You know, I've got somebody here that is

302
00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:49,720
Speaker 2: amazing and like so into me. But at the same time,

303
00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:53,280
Speaker 2: also with the Bentley out front and I'm sitting here

304
00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:57,440
Speaker 2: holding this big royal crest.

305
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:02,400
Speaker 1: Bernie couldn't wrap his mind around it.

306
00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:05,480
Speaker 2: And I was like, I don't know what to say.

307
00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:07,640
Speaker 2: And it was like, it's fine, It's like, just ask

308
00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:09,479
Speaker 2: any questions that you have, and I was like, I

309
00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:12,600
Speaker 2: literally don't have questions, Like my mind is blank.

310
00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:17,720
Speaker 1: This was really big. Leo came from a very important

311
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:22,200
Speaker 1: and complicated world. Bernie didn't know what it would mean

312
00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:23,720
Speaker 1: for his relationship with Leo.

313
00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:28,040
Speaker 2: He was like, I want to keep us separate. You

314
00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:30,800
Speaker 2: know that I have to do this with you. I

315
00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:33,240
Speaker 2: want to do and he was like, until we figure

316
00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:36,879
Speaker 2: out how or if we can mix this, let's just

317
00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:39,679
Speaker 2: try it. So I was like, look, I'm fine with that.

318
00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:44,560
Speaker 2: I'm not here and I never have been impressed by money. Obviously,

319
00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:47,560
Speaker 2: I'm impressed by the Bentley, but I'm not here for

320
00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:48,399
Speaker 2: anything other than you.

321
00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:53,360
Speaker 1: This was a pivotal moment the conversation deepened their connection.

322
00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:56,840
Speaker 2: That was then the first day that he had opened

323
00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:59,560
Speaker 2: up and he trusted me. He trusted me with this

324
00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:05,159
Speaker 2: secret and his family and his line. I think that

325
00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:07,880
Speaker 2: was the first time that I was like, yeah, he

326
00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:08,719
Speaker 2: really likes me.

327
00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:13,520
Speaker 1: Leo let Bernie into his inner circle, but he made

328
00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:17,520
Speaker 1: it clear privacy and discretion was critical.

329
00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:25,000
Speaker 2: The first few months after that, it was amazing. He

330
00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:31,080
Speaker 2: really genuinely wanted to see me happy and to take

331
00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:31,560
Speaker 2: care of me.

332
00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:34,679
Speaker 1: Bernie and Leo were spending more and more time with

333
00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:35,160
Speaker 1: each other.

334
00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:39,200
Speaker 2: He pretty much moved in. I think that was about

335
00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:41,280
Speaker 2: a month and a half in. I gave McKey and

336
00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:44,800
Speaker 2: I literally just said, you know, use it whenever you want.

337
00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:48,320
Speaker 1: Leo never missed a moment to make Bernie feel loved.

338
00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:50,399
Speaker 2: If I was on a late shift, I would finish

339
00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:53,000
Speaker 2: ten eleven o'clock at night, and then he would be

340
00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:59,240
Speaker 2: there with dinner with flowers. At that minute in time,

341
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:05,320
Speaker 2: I had felt the happiest, settled and loved. Then I

342
00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:09,440
Speaker 2: would probably say bar my mom than I had ever

343
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:11,520
Speaker 2: felt in my life.

344
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:15,240
Speaker 1: Even though Leo came from a wealthy background, he worked

345
00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:18,320
Speaker 1: hard and had a career. He was passionate about.

346
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:22,680
Speaker 2: He knew about watches. He was a horologist. He had

347
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:27,679
Speaker 2: been to Switzerland, studied at the best places. He absolutely

348
00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,200
Speaker 2: knew everything. He had space to do a little studio.

349
00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:34,480
Speaker 2: He was taking all of these Rolexes apart and in

350
00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:36,800
Speaker 2: front of me putting them back together. And then he

351
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:39,080
Speaker 2: was like, I'm licensed by Rolex to do that.

352
00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:44,280
Speaker 1: It was a very competitive certification. But luxury watches were

353
00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:45,280
Speaker 1: Leo's life.

354
00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:49,560
Speaker 2: He always had Rolex flip on his arm.

355
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:53,320
Speaker 1: Within a few months, they were spending almost every night together.

356
00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:57,200
Speaker 1: They were exclusive. Bernie was starting to think that Leo

357
00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:01,080
Speaker 1: could be the one. There was only one big concern,

358
00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:06,560
Speaker 1: and that was Leo's health. It was there from the beginning,

359
00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:11,280
Speaker 1: but Bernie was seeing his symptoms worsen. Leo wasn't just coughing,

360
00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:13,080
Speaker 1: he was now throwing up.

361
00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:21,200
Speaker 2: He went silent for I want to say two days. Now.

362
00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:25,719
Speaker 2: By that point, please realize that two days, when I

363
00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:29,280
Speaker 2: am now fully into this, fully into the emotion, is

364
00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:31,320
Speaker 2: like two weeks.

365
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:35,520
Speaker 1: During those two days, Bernie was desperate to hear from Leo.

366
00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:38,720
Speaker 1: While he waited, his mind began to spin.

367
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:42,200
Speaker 2: What have I done? Have I said something? I went

368
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:44,199
Speaker 2: back through WhatsApps and this is only two days of

369
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:47,919
Speaker 2: no conversation. I went through WhatsApps to find out what

370
00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:51,600
Speaker 2: I've said that he could possibly take offense with anyway.

371
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:56,200
Speaker 2: He eventually came back and basically apologized for not being

372
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,400
Speaker 2: in contact with me over the two days.

373
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,480
Speaker 1: Leo had a good reason for being out of touch.

374
00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:03,440
Speaker 1: He'd been in the hospital.

375
00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:06,560
Speaker 2: He was like, I can't say anything over for the phone,

376
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:08,200
Speaker 2: but I just need to get out of London. My

377
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:13,480
Speaker 2: family going into a panic and trying to keep this maintained,

378
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:15,959
Speaker 2: you know, make sure that it doesn't go to any press.

379
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,760
Speaker 2: He was like, can I just come to yourselves? Like absolutely.

380
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:23,440
Speaker 2: At that point, he told me that he was suffering

381
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:28,240
Speaker 2: from brain cancer and they've given him a year to live,

382
00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:31,560
Speaker 2: and obviously he had a lot of process and that

383
00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:32,440
Speaker 2: he needed to do.

384
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,680
Speaker 1: Bernie was devastated. He wanted to be there for Leo

385
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:40,040
Speaker 1: any way he could.

386
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:43,000
Speaker 2: I'm just going to sit here and be quiet. You

387
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:46,920
Speaker 2: talk to me, you vent me, you get your frustrations out,

388
00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:48,720
Speaker 2: anything that is in your mind. I was like, you

389
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,080
Speaker 2: literally throw them at me. This is what I'm here

390
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:54,320
Speaker 2: to do. And he did, and he got upset, He

391
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,720
Speaker 2: got angry. He was crying and then he got to

392
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:02,200
Speaker 2: the US conversation and he said, I can't really see

393
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:02,760
Speaker 2: you anymore.

394
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:05,560
Speaker 1: Leo didn't want to be a burden.

395
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,320
Speaker 2: He was like, look, I can't promise you anything. If

396
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:11,600
Speaker 2: this is how my life is going to end, there's

397
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 2: bits that may not be pretty. And I was like, look,

398
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:16,280
Speaker 2: I really don't care. I was like, if I have

399
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:18,760
Speaker 2: to be a complete secret, even if we have to

400
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,840
Speaker 2: break up, just I want to be your friend. It

401
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 2: wasn't about any of the sex or the relationship for me.

402
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:27,800
Speaker 2: It was this person that was in front of me.

403
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,600
Speaker 1: To Bernie's surprise, Leo even brought up as well.

404
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 2: He was like, obviously he can't change that because if

405
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:36,959
Speaker 2: he put my name in there, they all questions will

406
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 2: come up with who. And I was like, I really

407
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,399
Speaker 2: do not care. I was like, I literally do not

408
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:45,359
Speaker 2: care about any of that. I was like, if you

409
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 2: get to that point, I will be here as much

410
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:49,199
Speaker 2: as you need me to.

411
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:54,960
Speaker 1: Leo couldn't come out to his family, so in order

412
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,800
Speaker 1: for Bernie to stay in his life, he suggested Bernie

413
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 1: pretend to be his assistant or driver. It was the

414
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:04,959
Speaker 1: kind of arrangement Bernie wouldn't have agreed to under normal circumstances,

415
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 1: but he was willing to do anything to make sure

416
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:08,639
Speaker 1: he could care for Leo.

417
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 2: So he agreed, and I meant it one hundred percent,

418
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:15,440
Speaker 2: not a second guess in my mind.

419
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 1: So Bernie immediately focused on helping Leo make sense of

420
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 1: his diagnosis.

421
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,840
Speaker 2: I went online. I researched the hell out of it,

422
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 2: down to all different methods, and I mean I did

423
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:30,480
Speaker 2: go crazy with it, to be honest. I was there

424
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:34,440
Speaker 2: for at least an entire twenty four hours googling research

425
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 2: and what this meant, experimental drugs, and like, I just

426
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 2: went to town with everything that I could find out.

427
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 1: But Leo had already accepted that he didn't have much

428
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:47,399
Speaker 1: time left.

429
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 2: He was talking about that he might not actually go

430
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:53,919
Speaker 2: for chemo because he just wants to just end it

431
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 2: on his terms in Switzerland. That was a conversation that

432
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 2: we had. And then that's when we went onto a

433
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,399
Speaker 2: conversation about I think I need to start living my

434
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 2: life while I've got it, and I was like, right, okay,

435
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 2: so let's do that.

436
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 1: For Leo, living his life to the fullest meant finally

437
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:14,120
Speaker 1: launching his own watch restoration business that would be his legacy.

438
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 1: He had a collection of incredible luxury watches and he

439
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:19,680
Speaker 1: couldn't take them with him.

440
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,399
Speaker 2: One day he said to me, I've got all of

441
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:24,879
Speaker 2: these watches, I might just start selling them because I

442
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,119
Speaker 2: kind of like swap in a buy and trade on

443
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 2: this site. And it's like I kind of want to

444
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 2: build something. So instantly I kicked in. I was like,

445
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,920
Speaker 2: I can build you a website. Let's register this company,

446
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:38,680
Speaker 2: and I did. We had quite a few business meetings

447
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,359
Speaker 2: on how the logo is going to look, what it's called,

448
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,399
Speaker 2: setting up all of the social media for it. And

449
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 2: I sat on my little photoshop and I'd done the

450
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,399
Speaker 2: logo and the company was called The Vintage Crown.

451
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:54,879
Speaker 1: Leo wanted Bernie to list all of his watches and

452
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 1: post them online, so he brought his entire collection to

453
00:25:58,600 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 1: Bernie's house.

454
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 2: We came up and he literally had about two three

455
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 2: trunks of watches. I mean, I've got all the pictures

456
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 2: on my phone. Still. There was countless rolelexes, there was

457
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 2: the tet Feliks, there was Van Kleef and arpoles. They

458
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:20,159
Speaker 2: were stunning. There must have been i'd say close to

459
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 2: one hundred one hundred watches in my lounge on this

460
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 2: table and there was this very very old Rolex. The glass,

461
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:31,439
Speaker 2: the watch face was quite rounded.

462
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 1: Bernie picked up the watch. It was heavy and ornate.

463
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,640
Speaker 2: It was like, this is probably the most expensive watch

464
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 2: that I own. And I was like, well, how much

465
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 2: is it worth? It was like you check it out,

466
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 2: So it's like, go on the Rolex website, turned the

467
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 2: watch over. I typed in the cerial number and it

468
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:53,440
Speaker 2: came in at one point two million. At that point,

469
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:55,399
Speaker 2: I probably had aboute hundred pounds in my bank account,

470
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 2: so I'm like one point two million. It was just

471
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 2: in to think of the money that was sat right

472
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 2: in front of me.

473
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 1: Leo had a staggering collection of luxury watches, and as

474
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 1: Bernie helped Leo launch his new watch business, Bernie got

475
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,639
Speaker 1: a taste of that world. Like when Bernie came with

476
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 1: him to run errands at high end London department stores, and.

477
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,360
Speaker 2: Whenever we walked into Harold's, they knew of him. They

478
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 2: addressed him by his name, talking about previous purchases that

479
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 2: he had made, and full conversations.

480
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 1: He even asked Bernie to go to Selfridges, another luxury

481
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,479
Speaker 1: department store in London, for an exclusive event.

482
00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 2: It's a private party of VIP, but it would be

483
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 2: quite nice if you can come with me just to

484
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 2: experience a bit of that lifestyle. And I was like, oh,

485
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:11,120
Speaker 2: like absolutely, yeah, I'll come out. So we got dressed,

486
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,640
Speaker 2: made our way into central London, walk into Selfridges and

487
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 2: it was red carpet all of that.

488
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 1: This event was a big deal and Leo was a

489
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 1: big deal there. Everyone greeted him by name and immediately

490
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 1: people were vying for his attention.

491
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 2: So he went into this private VIP area through the door.

492
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 1: Leo was there to look at a specific.

493
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,640
Speaker 2: Watch, and then he sent me a message and was like, Okay,

494
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 2: we're kind of done with the finance side, do you

495
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 2: want to come in? So I was like absolutely, So

496
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 2: I went in and it was a private room with

497
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 2: a head of European sales. The room was gorgeous. We

498
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 2: had or derves that were laid out and the watches

499
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 2: were laid out in front of me. These ridiculous I

500
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 2: mean the price of a house, these watches in front

501
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 2: of us, and it was just this woman, Leo and me.

502
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 1: Leo bought two watches that day as gifts for family members.

503
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 1: With Bernie's help, Leo's watch business got off the ground,

504
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 1: and as a thank you, he would let Bernie borrow

505
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 1: some of the pieces.

506
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 2: If we'd go for dinner, he'd give me a Rolex

507
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 2: or a Fotech Philippin. He then called one day and

508
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 2: he said, this Rolex has come my way for me

509
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 2: to recondition and to sell. It's just a Sa Mariner.

510
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 2: I've got quite a few of them anyway. But he

511
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 2: was like, I thought of you.

512
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 1: Leo was making him an offer.

513
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 2: He was like, look, you buy it off of me

514
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 2: for twenty thousand. I will recondition it, I'll make it

515
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 2: look as good as new, i will polish it, I

516
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 2: will have it back up and it's usually worth about

517
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 2: thirty to forty thousand.

518
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 1: Twenty grand up front. It would be a huge investment

519
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 1: for Bernie, and then Leo would resell it at a

520
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 1: profit of at least ten thousand pounds.

521
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 2: Of course, it would be amazing. That extra ten ground

522
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 2: for me at this minute in time would open up doors.

523
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 2: I've never had just a ten thousand pound sum in

524
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 2: my account.

525
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 1: But Bernie didn't have twenty thousand pounds just lying around.

526
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 2: And I was all right. I was like at the

527
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 2: first I just don't have anywhere near that money whatsoever. Literally,

528
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 2: I think for my entire life it's been paycheck to paycheck.

529
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 2: I'm just very clever with it. Nowhere do I have

530
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 2: that kind of money.

531
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 1: Leo had an idea, what about Bernie's clothing business. It

532
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 1: wasn't as successful as the watch sales, so.

533
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 2: He said, well the clothes was like, you know, it's

534
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 2: taking too much of your time. Is it really doing anything?

535
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 2: And I was like, it's getting a bit tiring, And

536
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 2: so I said, look, why don't you just sell sell

537
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 2: all of the clothes just in bulk. Somebody will buy it,

538
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 2: sell it, sell the website off, like, sell the business,

539
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 2: get this watch, and then use that lump sum for

540
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 2: how whatever you want to do your next project.

541
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 1: Bernie had a few ideas for new businesses. He wanted

542
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 1: to start. The investment in the watch represented a new chapter.

543
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 1: So he started crunching the numbers.

544
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:12,239
Speaker 2: I was like, look, I can take this money out

545
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 2: of all of my credit cards. But if I do

546
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 2: that with my bills my wage in retail will it

547
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 2: won't even cover half of all them repayments in one

548
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 2: go by maxing out them cars. So he said, look,

549
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 2: once I've got the money, it will take about a

550
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 2: week for the watch to get here, so I will

551
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 2: recondition it, I'll get it sent to you. You'll sell

552
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:36,719
Speaker 2: it before you next get paid if I get it.

553
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 2: But I'd never do anything to hurt you. This is

554
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 2: for your benefit. Look, if it's too much, then you

555
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 2: know what, Let's just not do it. Let's just just

556
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 2: forget about it completely. And by that point I was like,

557
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 2: I'd already kind of imagined if I sell all of

558
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 2: this stuff and I take from these credit cards, by

559
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 2: the end of it, I could have ten to twenty pounds,

560
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 2: which is just mine to do with. I was like, right, okay,

561
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 2: I trust him one hundred percent. Let's just do this.

562
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 1: Bernie was in so.

563
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 2: I sold the website off and then I think that

564
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 2: only got about half of it, maybe a little bit more.

565
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 2: And then I did have a few credit cards, so

566
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 2: I got rid of the final bits of the clothes,

567
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 2: took out from every credit card that I had, maxed

568
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 2: it out, and gave it him.

569
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 1: Bernie got fifteen thousand pounds from maxed out credit cards.

570
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 1: For the rest of the money, he took out an

571
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 1: incredibly high interest loan.

572
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 2: These payday loans, the interest rate is seventy nine percent

573
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 2: per month, and that's more than what you've borrowed.

574
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 1: Bernie was putting everything on the line. He sent Leo

575
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 1: the twenty thousand and Leo ordered the watch.

576
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 2: It'd been delivered to his Hyde Park address.

577
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 1: But it was the week of Christmas and Leo wasn't home.

578
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 1: He was at the castle.

579
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 2: He has responsibilities around the UK, so he was up

580
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 2: there doing official business and he will get to it.

581
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 1: With the holidays. It could be a week before Leo

582
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 1: got to the watch. That meant weeks before they could

583
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 1: resell it.

584
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 2: That's when I started panicking because at that point there

585
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 2: is absolutely no way that I am going to be

586
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 2: able to cover that next payment. And I told him

587
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 2: that I am getting nervous because I know the tsunami

588
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 2: that's coming if this isn't paid.

589
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 1: But Leo was calm. He handled deals like this all

590
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 1: the time.

591
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 2: He just kept reassuring me, saying, look, there's a little

592
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 2: bit of a delay. I've got a buyer. I've got

593
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 2: somebody that's interested. As soon as I can get my

594
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 2: hands down to this watch. It will take me one

595
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 2: day to recondition it because it's in very good quality,

596
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 2: and I will literally have a buyer for you. Within

597
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 2: twenty four hours.

598
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 1: After that, Leo seemed to change. The loving calls and

599
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 1: texts started dwindling.

600
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:09,359
Speaker 2: The communication with me and him went very sparse. The

601
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:13,719
Speaker 2: morning messages, which by this point had constantly continued. If

602
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:15,439
Speaker 2: I had even to the point if he was staying

603
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 2: at mine and I woke up before in the morning

604
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 2: to go to work, when he woke up, I would

605
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 2: still get that morning message.

606
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:25,920
Speaker 1: And now those texts stopped coming. Their connections started to

607
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 1: feel less like a romantic relationship and more like a

608
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 1: business partnership.

609
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 2: It went from loving and just amazing conversations to all

610
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 2: about the watch.

611
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 1: For Bernie, this cold shoulder really hurt. Obviously he was

612
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 1: concerned about the watch, but that wasn't what he really

613
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:50,720
Speaker 1: cared about.

614
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:59,439
Speaker 2: I am fully in depth, I am fully in love

615
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:00,839
Speaker 2: with him.

616
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 1: In seven months, Leo had become the center point of

617
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 1: his life.

618
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 2: He was my world at that point, and there was

619
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 2: nothing else that I was concentrated on. I'd stopped talking

620
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:14,800
Speaker 2: to my friends, even my best friend. I'd stopped talking

621
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 2: to my family, and all of a sudden, this person

622
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 2: is completely disregarding me. I was panicking. Then I was

623
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 2: then going back to that state, what have I done?

624
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 2: What have I said? I know it's Christmas. I don't

625
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 2: want to contact him too much because I know that

626
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 2: he's working and he's probably with people with his family.

627
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 2: But at the same time, I'm panicking because I'm not

628
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 2: getting that response. Then comes Christmas Eve and he's kind

629
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,359
Speaker 2: of goes silent a little bit, and then I get

630
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 2: Christmas Eve. I get a few messages, very cold, and

631
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 2: it was like, I'm with people, I can't talk. I

632
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:54,320
Speaker 2: was like, okay, I just wanted to wish you a

633
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:56,239
Speaker 2: merry Christmas.

634
00:35:57,640 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 1: It was important for Leo to spend time with his

635
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 1: family because he had so little time left. Maybe the

636
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 1: reality of his diagnosis was finally hitting him. Bernie understood

637
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 1: why Leo might be pulling away, but it's still stung.

638
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 2: Next morning, I did actually get quite a nice message.

639
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:19,399
Speaker 2: It's just like Merry Christmas, handsome and blah blah blah

640
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 2: blah blah. I instantly my mood. I was uplifted. I

641
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 2: was like, oh, it's okay, what's your plans for today?

642
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 2: It was I went straight into that puppy mode like

643
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 2: he could do no wrong, and he said, I'm with

644
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 2: my family all day. I won't be able to contact

645
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,479
Speaker 2: you for the next two days. I was like, okay,

646
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 2: that's absolutely fine. I get it. It's Christmas, you are

647
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 2: supposed to spend that with your family.

648
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:50,800
Speaker 1: Bernie spent that Christmas alone waiting for a message from Leo.

649
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 1: But that day Bernie noticed something strange. It seemed like

650
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 1: Leo was actually spending Christmas Day with another man, someone

651
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:04,760
Speaker 1: Bernie had never seen before.

652
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 2: There was a picture on his WhatsApp update and it

653
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:14,240
Speaker 2: was him, but there was somebody else in the background.

654
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 2: There was this guy just walking towards the camera, looking

655
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:21,279
Speaker 2: directly in the camera as if he was going to

656
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 2: say something, and it was the inside of a church,

657
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 2: and it just bucked me.

658
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:28,400
Speaker 1: For a few days, Bernie stared at the photo, practically

659
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:30,320
Speaker 1: memorizing every detail.

660
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 2: Anyway, so on the twenty seventh feet message, I was like, sorry,

661
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 2: I've not been I've been with family this and the other.

662
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 2: I was like, okay, how was your Christmas? To check

663
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:40,319
Speaker 2: up so much? And he was like no, we just

664
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,359
Speaker 2: really stayed around the castle and then we didn't really

665
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 2: do anything. I was like, oh, what about the church?

666
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 2: I was like, what church? And then it was just

667
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 2: like I was like, oh, I just saw your update

668
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 2: on your WhatsApp and it was a picture of a church.

669
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 2: And I was like, I don't know what you're talking about.

670
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 2: You didn't see anything.

671
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 1: But Bernie had looked at the photo over and over.

672
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 1: He knew what he saw, and.

673
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:03,720
Speaker 2: I was like, no, it was I didn't do an update.

674
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 2: That was no update. And then he got into such

675
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:10,840
Speaker 2: denial he was adamant and quite nasty with it that

676
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 2: I completely made it up. I did not see it.

677
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 2: There was nothing on his profile.

678
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:22,440
Speaker 1: It was the first time Leo had acted like this.

679
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:27,279
Speaker 1: He was defensive and angry over something so small. He

680
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 1: knew it meant Leo might be hiding something. So Bernie

681
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:32,279
Speaker 1: pulled back a bit.

682
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:36,239
Speaker 2: I kind of slowed down message in him. I didn't

683
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 2: get a call again quite late at night, and it's

684
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 2: like I've just had a massive argument with my family.

685
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:46,800
Speaker 1: On the other end of the phone, Leo was hysterical.

686
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:48,839
Speaker 2: And he's like, Bernie, I can't take this. I can't

687
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 2: take this life anymore, the stress that I've been under.

688
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:53,880
Speaker 2: I just don't like my family. I don't want to

689
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 2: do this anymore. Can you come and get me? So,

690
00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 2: of course I've then said yes instantly, where are you

691
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 2: calm down, stay on the phone with me.

692
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 1: Leo sent an address. It was a five hour drive

693
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:10,840
Speaker 1: from London, so Bernie got in the car and stayed

694
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:13,120
Speaker 1: on the phone with Leo while he drove through the

695
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 1: night to meet him. At two am, he picked up

696
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 1: Leo and brought them to a hotel.

697
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:22,360
Speaker 2: We stayed the night. We had a long conversation about

698
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 2: his stress levels, and he's sorry that he's been distant

699
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 2: and he doesn't how to cope with this, as well

700
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 2: as his diagnosis. And at the end of this he'll

701
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 2: get the watch. He's going to go down, he'll get it,

702
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 2: and if he hasn't got it by this point, he

703
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 2: will give me the money and then sell it on himself.

704
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:41,759
Speaker 2: And I just felt seeing and he was in tears.

705
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,719
Speaker 2: He went asleep and I was stroking his hair. It

706
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 2: was as if this guy was broken, broken with life.

707
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 1: There in the hotel room, Bernie finally fell close to

708
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 1: Leo again. Leo needed him, and Bernie would do anything

709
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 1: to make him happy. The next morning, Leo seemed renewed,

710
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 1: back to his old self. He confessed to Bernie that

711
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 1: he had been hiding something. Now he was finally ready

712
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 1: to talk about it.

713
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 2: It's like, so, I've got a serious question that I

714
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:20,839
Speaker 2: need to ask you, and I've been thinking about this

715
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:23,920
Speaker 2: with everything that's been going on. And I was like okay,

716
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,800
Speaker 2: and he was like, I've had enough of this entire

717
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 2: life that I have to do and I'm done with it.

718
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 2: I want to move away. And he was like, I

719
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 2: want to move somewhere in Scotland. Would you come with me?

720
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:44,359
Speaker 2: And I was like sorry, I was like what. I

721
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 2: was like, I've seen this house. I've been thinking about

722
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 2: this for a long time and I was going to

723
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:51,280
Speaker 2: go on my own and that's why I've been distant

724
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 2: because I didn't know what I was going to do.

725
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:54,759
Speaker 2: But I want you to come with me.

726
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 1: Leo was dead serious. He was ready to put in

727
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 1: an offer on a house because.

728
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:06,280
Speaker 2: I've already contacted the estate agent. This house was a

729
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 2: full on castle in the Scottish Islands. When you think

730
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:15,960
Speaker 2: the quintessential English castle, it was exactly that.

731
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 1: They looked at the listing together and started imagining a

732
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 1: new life there. They wouldn't have to hide from Leo's

733
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:26,439
Speaker 1: family or the press. Bernie could take care of Leo

734
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 1: as his cancer progressed and whatever came next, they could

735
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 1: face it together.

736
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 2: It's like, I just wanted to be me and you

737
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:40,319
Speaker 2: and I was like yes. And it's difficult now to

738
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:47,279
Speaker 2: really kind of explain exactly how it felt, because his

739
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 2: world at certain points starts to crumble and he has

740
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 2: to get what he can do and run to create

741
00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 2: another life for himself. In the end, it was all

742
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 2: a life.

743
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 1: Leo had been looking to buy a castle in the

744
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 1: Scottish countryside where he could live out the rest of

745
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 1: his life the way he wanted to with Bernie.

746
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:33,480
Speaker 2: And he was like, I want to put an offer

747
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:36,319
Speaker 2: in and move within the month. I'm just done with

748
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 2: all of this. I'm like, do you know what, We've

749
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 2: got one life, Let's do it.

750
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 1: Leo drove them back to London. It was a five

751
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 1: hour drive and they spent every minute of it planning

752
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 1: their new life.

753
00:42:55,440 --> 00:43:00,720
Speaker 2: We had designed this entire life, down to the jobs

754
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,320
Speaker 2: we would do, the businesses we would build.

755
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 1: On their drive, Leo's grandparents called. They were nearby, so

756
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 1: Leo decided to meet up with them and spend the

757
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 1: rest of the day with his grandparents. Bernie could drive

758
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:17,720
Speaker 1: the Bentley back to London, so halfway through their trip,

759
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 1: Leo pulled off at a gas station where his grandparents

760
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:28,040
Speaker 1: were waiting. It was the first time Bernie had seen

761
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:31,880
Speaker 1: anyone in Leo's family. Leo asked Bernie to act like

762
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 1: they were just friends.

763
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,919
Speaker 2: He went over to this couple they must have been

764
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:42,520
Speaker 2: in their late sixties, and his granddad went to go

765
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 2: to the bathroom. So I was like, okay, I need

766
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:48,160
Speaker 2: to toilet anyway, So I was like, I'll go, and

767
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:50,920
Speaker 2: then I went in and then he came in after me,

768
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 2: so I was like okay.

769
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 1: On the way out of the bathroom, Bernie struck up

770
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 1: a conversation with Leo's granddad and.

771
00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:00,399
Speaker 2: He was like, oh, well, we live in sus That's

772
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:01,279
Speaker 2: where the castle was.

773
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 1: They chatted about life in Sussex, then headed back to

774
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 1: their cars. Leo went with his grandparents and Bernie drove

775
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:13,279
Speaker 1: alone back to London. Bernie was excited about starting his

776
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,400
Speaker 1: new life in Scotland, but his financial stress about the

777
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:19,440
Speaker 1: watch was mounting. It wouldn't be ready to resell in

778
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 1: time for Bernie's next loan payment.

779
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:25,719
Speaker 2: I'm panicking now. I'd missed one direct debit. February's was

780
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,760
Speaker 2: coming up, and it still was not happening.

781
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:32,880
Speaker 1: As the weeks went on, Bernie kept asking his boyfriend

782
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:34,280
Speaker 1: for an update on the watch.

783
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:39,359
Speaker 2: The watch is being almost dangled. It's like, oh, I'll

784
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 2: bring it up, can I I'll come up to yours.

785
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:43,359
Speaker 2: I was like, okay, fine, I'll bring the watch up.

786
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:46,719
Speaker 2: He'd get to the house. No watch, Oh I forgot it.

787
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 2: I didn't go home yet. For whatever reason, the watch

788
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:55,440
Speaker 2: would always either be forgotten or once the cleaner accidentally

789
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:57,560
Speaker 2: moved it and it was lost in the house somewhere,

790
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:00,399
Speaker 2: so he needs to go back and look for it.

791
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:02,720
Speaker 1: It was getting absurd that Leo couldn't get the watch

792
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 1: sorted out. Sure there was a lot happening in Leo's life,

793
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:08,960
Speaker 1: but waiting this long was affecting Bernie's.

794
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 2: There was something inside that I was questioning a lot more,

795
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 2: but I was still hooked. I still agreed to go

796
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 2: to Scotland with him.

797
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 1: Just weeks before, Leo had needed Bernie to drive through

798
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:25,920
Speaker 1: the night to be there for him. Leo showed him

799
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 1: the house he was putting an offer on. Now Bernie

800
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 1: wasn't even getting a text or a call back for days.

801
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:37,280
Speaker 2: The gas lighting started. We'd have this call, for instance,

802
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:39,840
Speaker 2: and what are you doing today. Let's have a call tonight. Yeah, okay,

803
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 2: And then we'd have a call arrange something, and then

804
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:46,239
Speaker 2: he would be like, we didn't arrange it. I was like,

805
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:48,040
Speaker 2: well we did, because you know, I put it here,

806
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:49,719
Speaker 2: I put it in my diary. I put it. No,

807
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:51,719
Speaker 2: we didn't have that conversation.

808
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:55,720
Speaker 1: Bernie knew that Leo isolated when he was stressed about

809
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 1: his cancer or his family. Bernie wondered if things had

810
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:02,200
Speaker 1: gotten worse, but all the worrying was starting to take

811
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 1: a toll on his own health.

812
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 2: End of January, February and beginning of March was and

813
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 2: still is, to a degree a blur. I got into

814
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 2: the worst state of mind. I had to take time

815
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:26,400
Speaker 2: off of work for depression. I got massively depressed. I

816
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 2: lost so much weight I didn't eat.

817
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:32,279
Speaker 1: Bernie knew something was wrong, and he started spiraling.

818
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:38,240
Speaker 2: Of course, like anyone, I went straight into his seeing

819
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 2: somebody else mode, somebody else is on the scene, and

820
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:46,719
Speaker 2: I went into that whole whirlwind. I did then do

821
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:48,800
Speaker 2: something cheap because I was like, I can't do this normal,

822
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 2: I literally cannot do this anymore.

823
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:55,280
Speaker 1: With Leo across the country, Bernie got an idea.

824
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:58,720
Speaker 2: Do you know what, I think? I should download Grinder again.

825
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:04,680
Speaker 2: And with Grinder you can change location and search for

826
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 2: profiles within that location.

827
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:09,880
Speaker 1: So Bernie created a fake Grinder profile and set it

828
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:10,840
Speaker 1: to Leo's location.

829
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:15,800
Speaker 2: Now I knew his type, so I found a decent

830
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:19,440
Speaker 2: looking ginger guy, put that on my profile, and I

831
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:23,960
Speaker 2: spent a good day at the location looking through profiles

832
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:29,320
Speaker 2: that didn't have pictures on Lo and behold, he found

833
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 2: my profile.

834
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 1: Leo sent the first message, so we're just talking.

835
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:37,760
Speaker 2: I'm like, what do you do is I'm a horologist,

836
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 2: you know, I deal with watches, And he went straight

837
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:43,560
Speaker 2: into you and I'm a part of the Howard family,

838
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 2: and then he sent me pictures it was him.

839
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 1: At the same time, Leo was talking to fake Bernie

840
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:53,879
Speaker 1: on Grinder, he was avoiding real Bernie's texts.

841
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 2: He would reply to this person for literally about an hour,

842
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 2: but I'm getting no reply. So I'm like, do you

843
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:07,319
Speaker 2: know what I'm done? Now? That's it. I need to

844
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:09,919
Speaker 2: get this watch and I need to get it soon.

845
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:14,200
Speaker 2: So I did actually confront him with it, and I

846
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:16,000
Speaker 2: was like, I know you've been speaking to people, and

847
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:18,360
Speaker 2: I sent him a screenshot of the profile, and of

848
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:21,360
Speaker 2: course he was like, how dare you try putting it

849
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:23,880
Speaker 2: on me? And I was like, I didn't do anything,

850
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 2: and I was like, you have no right and went

851
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 2: off on one and I'm like, do you know what,

852
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:32,120
Speaker 2: it's absolutely fine, just give me the watch. That's when

853
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 2: he turned nasty. I was like, you're not getting the watch.

854
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:37,080
Speaker 2: You don't deserve the watch.

855
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 1: Regardless of Leo's royal status or cancer diagnosis. Bernie wasn't

856
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:44,919
Speaker 1: going to allow someone to speak to him that way.

857
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:49,719
Speaker 1: He hung up. Then Leo started blowing up his phone.

858
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 2: You know, I really love you and all of this,

859
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:53,279
Speaker 2: and what about Scotland.

860
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:58,399
Speaker 1: Bernie told him he wasn't coming to Scotland. Their relationship

861
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:02,600
Speaker 1: was over. The only thing he wanted from Leo was

862
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 1: the watch.

863
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:05,479
Speaker 2: So he's like, look, I'm going to bring the watch.

864
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:07,719
Speaker 2: It's finally ready. I was like, oh my god, I'm

865
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 2: actually going to get this watch now, and he was like,

866
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:11,080
Speaker 2: I'm going to bring it down.

867
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:14,040
Speaker 1: They set a time and place to meet.

868
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 2: He was like, are you're going to be okay seeing me?

869
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:19,320
Speaker 2: You know it may be a strain, and I'm like, listen,

870
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 2: I'm sure I'm going to be fine. I just just

871
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:25,800
Speaker 2: make sure you bring the watch turns up. No watch.

872
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:30,600
Speaker 1: That was the last time they ever spoke.

873
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:34,879
Speaker 2: I said enough is enough. I'm worth more than this,

874
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:38,440
Speaker 2: and I blocked his number. I had just been like,

875
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:41,600
Speaker 2: I'm never getting that watch. I need to deal with

876
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:45,200
Speaker 2: what I can, and this is the position that I'm in.

877
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:48,719
Speaker 1: Bernie says he was a shell of himself. Over the

878
00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:51,839
Speaker 1: course of nine months, his entire life had been rearranged.

879
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:54,879
Speaker 1: All of his savings were gone, he had taken out

880
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 1: loans and maxed out every credit card he had. It

881
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:00,440
Speaker 1: left Bernie in a dark place.

882
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:04,759
Speaker 2: My best friends literally descended on my house and were like,

883
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 2: we've never seen you like this, and we need to

884
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:12,080
Speaker 2: pick it up. If I didn't have my friends around

885
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:14,759
Speaker 2: me at the time, I don't know if I would

886
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:19,560
Speaker 2: actually be here to this day. I genuinely, genuinely.

887
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:23,680
Speaker 1: Believe that Bernie's friend supported him emotionally, but he was

888
00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:25,800
Speaker 1: facing his financial crisis alone.

889
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:32,080
Speaker 2: I had to just bow and say I can't afford it. Default,

890
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:37,520
Speaker 2: and my credit score at one point went from the

891
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:42,960
Speaker 2: highest it had ever been straight down to zero. I'd

892
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:46,880
Speaker 2: never even seen zero on a credit score before I

893
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:50,719
Speaker 2: was working in retail, and I had all this debt,

894
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:52,560
Speaker 2: and the debts that were coming out on a monthly

895
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:56,560
Speaker 2: basis because of everything that happened was higher than my

896
00:50:56,800 --> 00:51:00,000
Speaker 2: entire pay let alone, when you take away bills and

897
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:01,839
Speaker 2: utilities and all of that.

898
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:06,239
Speaker 1: Bernie was overwhelmed with shame. He was at risk of

899
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 1: getting his car repossessed or his wages garnished. He was

900
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:12,960
Speaker 1: able to make a payment plan, but in the meantime

901
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:15,000
Speaker 1: he had very little money to live on.

902
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:19,840
Speaker 2: He didn't take an obscene amount of money from me

903
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:26,280
Speaker 2: monetary wise, but what he did do was absolutely wipe

904
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:29,640
Speaker 2: me out. At one point, I didn't have the money

905
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:32,840
Speaker 2: to go to the shop to buy food. The monetary

906
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:38,320
Speaker 2: amount for me, twenty thousand could have easily been five million.

907
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 2: It was all that I had to my name to survive.

908
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 1: Twenty thousand pounds was a drop in the bucket for Leo,

909
00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:51,319
Speaker 1: after all, his family lived in a historic castle, he

910
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 1: drove a Bentley. But twenty thousand pounds was everything to Bernie,

911
00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:57,839
Speaker 1: and Leo knew that.

912
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:02,239
Speaker 2: I've reminded him time and again. He knew exactly what

913
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 2: my financial background was, what my current financial situation was.

914
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 2: He knew about all of that, but he still pushed

915
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:15,360
Speaker 2: to take them credit cards. He knew all of that

916
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 2: was coming, and I reminded him many times every single day,

917
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:23,879
Speaker 2: almost that this is hitting. He absolutely did not care.

918
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:28,799
Speaker 1: Slowly, Bernie came to terms with his financial reality. He

919
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:32,680
Speaker 1: continued leaning on his friends for emotional support. That's when

920
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:36,080
Speaker 1: one of his friends said something he hadn't considered before.

921
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:40,840
Speaker 1: This was theft he'd been robbed.

922
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:44,719
Speaker 2: She was like, he's going to carry on doing it

923
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:48,319
Speaker 2: to other people until somebody actually puts the stop to it.

924
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:52,480
Speaker 2: At that point, I decided that actually I will contact

925
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:54,919
Speaker 2: the police because this isn't right.

926
00:52:55,640 --> 00:52:58,440
Speaker 1: Bernie walked into the police station and filed a report.

927
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:02,279
Speaker 2: They did take it so seriously. I gave everything I

928
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:06,359
Speaker 2: had to them, and they had absolutely no idea who

929
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:07,759
Speaker 2: this person was.

930
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:13,120
Speaker 1: According to the police database, Leo Howard didn't exist.

931
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:18,120
Speaker 2: I emailed Arundel Castle, which is the official residence of

932
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:22,280
Speaker 2: the Duke of Norfolk, and there was absolutely no record

933
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:27,200
Speaker 2: of Leo Howard, Leo Bose Howard, or absolutely anything. So

934
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:31,160
Speaker 2: then I started doing my own research, but there was

935
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:33,360
Speaker 2: absolutely no trace.

936
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:38,320
Speaker 1: Bernie knew the VIN numbers to Leo's range, Rover and Bentley.

937
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:41,840
Speaker 2: All of the car registration numbers had completely been erased,

938
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:45,279
Speaker 2: which is very hard to do. I don't know how

939
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:46,040
Speaker 2: that's possible.

940
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:50,319
Speaker 1: The VIN numbers weren't listed on any database. It was

941
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:54,960
Speaker 1: like the cars never existed. But Bernie remembered riding in

942
00:53:55,000 --> 00:54:01,279
Speaker 1: those cars, driving those cars. It was all so he

943
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:04,160
Speaker 1: was starting to wonder what was even real.

944
00:54:05,160 --> 00:54:10,319
Speaker 2: It was as if I had completely imagined the entire year,

945
00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:15,760
Speaker 2: completely imagined it, because this person just did not exist.

946
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:20,040
Speaker 1: Leo had vanished into thin air. Even the police had

947
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:22,160
Speaker 1: hit a dead end.

948
00:54:23,239 --> 00:54:27,000
Speaker 2: The police could not recognize his picture. They had to

949
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:31,319
Speaker 2: just close the investigation. It must have been a good

950
00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:35,279
Speaker 2: year later and I get a call when it comes

951
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:38,120
Speaker 2: up and it's the police officer that was originally dealing

952
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:41,040
Speaker 2: with the case. Then I answered, and there was a

953
00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:43,680
Speaker 2: nice of tears, you know, how are you? And then

954
00:54:43,719 --> 00:54:47,879
Speaker 2: he said, do you watch Channel four? And I said,

955
00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:51,800
Speaker 2: to be honest, no, And he said, right, okay, there's

956
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:56,560
Speaker 2: this documentary that's just been shown on Channel four, and

957
00:54:56,600 --> 00:55:00,000
Speaker 2: from that I've been given a case. And he said,

958
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:04,000
Speaker 2: and everything that's been described in the case and on

959
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:08,200
Speaker 2: the documentary is almost identical to my story.

960
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:12,240
Speaker 1: Bernie had no idea that across the country. Other people

961
00:55:12,280 --> 00:55:15,080
Speaker 1: had been reporting a very similar crime to the police.

962
00:55:15,680 --> 00:55:19,640
Speaker 1: A broader case was developing. In fact, the story was

963
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:23,520
Speaker 1: already out as a true crime documentary. It was about

964
00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:27,439
Speaker 1: a prolific and highly manipulative scam artist operating all over

965
00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:32,040
Speaker 1: the UK. The detective calling wanted to know if Bernie

966
00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:34,239
Speaker 1: recognized the man at the center of it.

967
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:38,600
Speaker 2: He said, can you just google and have a look.

968
00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:43,280
Speaker 2: As soon as he said that, I had that sinking feeling.

969
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:49,879
Speaker 2: My heart dropped to the ground. I knew it would

970
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:55,719
Speaker 2: be him. My hands started shaking and my brain went

971
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:59,000
Speaker 2: completely dead on just how to google something by manager.

972
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:04,200
Speaker 2: I got there and it was his face.

973
00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:28,080
Speaker 1: A year after Bernie first went to the police, he

974
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:31,400
Speaker 1: got a call from a detective. They'd linked his report

975
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:34,920
Speaker 1: to a serial fraudster, someone who'd been conning men and

976
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:38,080
Speaker 1: women across the UK with the same mix of charm,

977
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:39,880
Speaker 1: money and elaborate lies.

978
00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:43,920
Speaker 2: There was a lot of press around it, and I

979
00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:47,800
Speaker 2: broke down. I absolutely broke down in tears.

980
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:52,880
Speaker 1: The story had exploded. Leo's face was all over the news.

981
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:57,240
Speaker 1: After Bernie got over the initial shock, a new feeling

982
00:56:57,280 --> 00:56:58,359
Speaker 1: flooded him.

983
00:56:58,719 --> 00:57:04,680
Speaker 2: The wave of relief. Now I have proof that it happens.

984
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:07,600
Speaker 2: Because bear in mind, at that point, the only person

985
00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:10,759
Speaker 2: who had ever met him was my best friend. We

986
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:13,640
Speaker 2: went out for one night. Apart from that, he didn't

987
00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:16,800
Speaker 2: want to meet anyone. He didn't want to be photographed

988
00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:19,680
Speaker 2: anyone that I told this story to. There was always,

989
00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:22,760
Speaker 2: i'm sure, an element of doubt because it was so

990
00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:27,200
Speaker 2: extraordinary to happen to me or to anyone. When I

991
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:33,520
Speaker 2: saw this, it was that feeling, that overwhelming, almost joyous

992
00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:38,080
Speaker 2: feeling of I told you this did happen.

993
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:45,240
Speaker 1: There were dozens of articles. Bernie clicked on one about

994
00:57:45,240 --> 00:57:49,080
Speaker 1: a woman who discovered her fiance was a fraud. He

995
00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:52,440
Speaker 1: built a five year relationship in order to scam her

996
00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:55,360
Speaker 1: out of thirty thousand pounds.

997
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:59,520
Speaker 2: I read the article, and everything that happened to me,

998
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:01,520
Speaker 2: it happened to her.

999
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:06,000
Speaker 1: Bernie knew that the documentary might hold answers to as

1000
00:58:06,080 --> 00:58:08,240
Speaker 1: many unanswered questions about Leo.

1001
00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:13,000
Speaker 2: We sat down and we watched it, and as soon

1002
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:18,880
Speaker 2: as I press play, it starts with his face again.

1003
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:25,360
Speaker 2: I got that sinking feeling. It was surreal scene.

1004
00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:29,400
Speaker 1: After seeing Bernie realized he'd lived the same exact moments

1005
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:34,240
Speaker 1: with the same con man. The luxury watch business, a scam,

1006
00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:36,720
Speaker 1: the cancer diagnosis fake.

1007
00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:41,840
Speaker 2: I'm heightened at that point, and the Bentley came up,

1008
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:44,480
Speaker 2: and I was like, that's that was the Bentley and

1009
00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:47,840
Speaker 2: the watch that I was handling, and the watch that

1010
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:53,040
Speaker 2: I was supposed to be buying was actually in the documentary,

1011
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:56,040
Speaker 2: just even little parts of the story. I was like, Yes,

1012
00:58:56,080 --> 00:58:56,640
Speaker 2: he told me.

1013
00:58:56,640 --> 00:59:01,600
Speaker 1: That, even though it was someone else's story, it was

1014
00:59:01,640 --> 00:59:06,880
Speaker 1: like watching his own true crime documentary. Andy learned Leo

1015
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:09,200
Speaker 1: had a dozen aliases.

1016
00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:14,320
Speaker 2: After the documentary, I did get emotional because I think

1017
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:19,520
Speaker 2: that then sunk in exactly the severity of what was happening.

1018
00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:25,400
Speaker 2: I was just a number at that point. Straight Away

1019
00:59:25,840 --> 00:59:29,840
Speaker 2: I found the woman in the documentary on social media

1020
00:59:30,240 --> 00:59:32,920
Speaker 2: and connected, and I remember the first message was like,

1021
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:37,760
Speaker 2: you don't know me. I've just seen your documentary. And

1022
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:41,520
Speaker 2: I met him such and such date. She came back

1023
00:59:41,720 --> 00:59:44,840
Speaker 2: and we had a few telephone conversations.

1024
00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:48,720
Speaker 1: They had so much in common. This other victim helped

1025
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:51,520
Speaker 1: Bernie fill in the gaps in his knowledge and piece

1026
00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:56,120
Speaker 1: together a timeline. Most shocking of all, he learned.

1027
00:59:56,120 --> 00:59:59,680
Speaker 2: Three weeks before he had messaged me, he had actually

1028
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:06,160
Speaker 2: absconded from prison. He was serving a sentence for fraud

1029
01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:09,520
Speaker 2: and he was on the run when he met me.

1030
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:14,880
Speaker 1: Looking back, this explained something about Leo's behavior, how he

1031
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:18,160
Speaker 1: was always nervous around the police.

1032
01:00:18,400 --> 01:00:22,120
Speaker 2: He never really liked the police. He was kind of

1033
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:23,880
Speaker 2: scared of the police, to the point he would wait

1034
01:00:23,880 --> 01:00:26,040
Speaker 2: around the corney if there was police cars from driving past.

1035
01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:26,640
Speaker 2: He was scared.

1036
01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:30,760
Speaker 1: When Bernie met Leo, he wasn't in that campground because

1037
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:33,200
Speaker 1: it was the only place he could be himself. He

1038
01:00:33,280 --> 01:00:36,680
Speaker 1: was there because he was in hiding. Leo had escaped

1039
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:39,560
Speaker 1: while he was serving a five year prison sentence for

1040
01:00:39,640 --> 01:00:44,040
Speaker 1: defrauding another victim, and there were many more. He had

1041
01:00:44,120 --> 01:00:45,520
Speaker 1: victims across England.

1042
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:50,760
Speaker 2: There was me and one other person in the north

1043
01:00:50,840 --> 01:00:56,840
Speaker 2: of London. All the other victims were in the south

1044
01:00:56,880 --> 01:01:02,440
Speaker 2: of England, in Kent in Sussex. The person that was

1045
01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:06,520
Speaker 2: in the documentary was in the Isle of Wight when

1046
01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:10,680
Speaker 2: he escaped from prison. He had then obviously traveled and

1047
01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:11,680
Speaker 2: he was in hiding.

1048
01:01:12,560 --> 01:01:16,120
Speaker 1: What was so chilling to Bernie was that the.

1049
01:01:16,200 --> 01:01:23,080
Speaker 2: Time the documentary was being filmed was when I was

1050
01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:23,720
Speaker 2: with him.

1051
01:01:24,360 --> 01:01:27,800
Speaker 1: And Bernie wasn't the only person Leo was scamming while

1052
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:31,880
Speaker 1: he was on the run. Remember Leo's grandparents, who Bernie

1053
01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:33,040
Speaker 1: met at the gas station.

1054
01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:37,400
Speaker 2: I told the police my story and I said, look,

1055
01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:41,040
Speaker 2: I came into contact with his nana grandad. They're like, no,

1056
01:01:42,040 --> 01:01:46,960
Speaker 2: that was another victim. I was like, wow, he was

1057
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:49,200
Speaker 2: doing exactly the same to them.

1058
01:01:49,560 --> 01:01:53,760
Speaker 1: If Leo stayed behind bars, many people wouldn't have been victimized.

1059
01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:57,360
Speaker 1: He was a fugitive. The police were looking for him,

1060
01:01:57,960 --> 01:02:01,360
Speaker 1: but the problem was the pose weren't as savvy as Leo.

1061
01:02:02,360 --> 01:02:06,720
Speaker 2: Now, we do have a national database which comes up,

1062
01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:11,040
Speaker 2: but they didn't put him on that. So all the

1063
01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:15,760
Speaker 2: time that I was with him, there were actually campaigns

1064
01:02:15,800 --> 01:02:19,600
Speaker 2: to find this person. However, the police don't talk to

1065
01:02:19,640 --> 01:02:23,160
Speaker 2: each other over here, and when I had raised my case,

1066
01:02:23,680 --> 01:02:27,360
Speaker 2: they had no idea who it was until the documentary

1067
01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:28,080
Speaker 2: came out.

1068
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:32,800
Speaker 1: That's when police stations across the country started connecting the dots.

1069
01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:38,360
Speaker 2: Channel four had done so many press releases that it

1070
01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:43,120
Speaker 2: really got the national scope, and I think we're on

1071
01:02:43,200 --> 01:02:47,920
Speaker 2: about ten people that have come forward and raised a case.

1072
01:02:49,120 --> 01:02:52,720
Speaker 2: Because of the heightened press and because all of this

1073
01:02:52,920 --> 01:02:57,680
Speaker 2: was going around, he decided to hand himself in.

1074
01:02:58,440 --> 01:03:02,040
Speaker 1: Leo was sent back to prison and Bernie hoped justice

1075
01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:03,920
Speaker 1: would finally be served.

1076
01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:09,040
Speaker 2: But he still qualified for early release. The mind boggles.

1077
01:03:10,160 --> 01:03:11,840
Speaker 2: But that's where we are, and that's what we have

1078
01:03:11,920 --> 01:03:14,080
Speaker 2: to deal with, and that's what we are currently facing.

1079
01:03:16,720 --> 01:03:19,400
Speaker 1: Through this whole process, Bernie was able to get a

1080
01:03:19,400 --> 01:03:23,640
Speaker 1: true understanding of who this man really was. He even

1081
01:03:23,720 --> 01:03:26,640
Speaker 1: heard from people who knew the real Leo before he

1082
01:03:26,680 --> 01:03:27,640
Speaker 1: became a criminal.

1083
01:03:28,400 --> 01:03:32,600
Speaker 2: I've had so many messages over social media and TikTok

1084
01:03:33,360 --> 01:03:36,400
Speaker 2: where people have gone to school with him, and he

1085
01:03:36,520 --> 01:03:38,680
Speaker 2: used to make up stories to get people in trouble.

1086
01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:45,160
Speaker 2: He naturally gravitated towards fraud from a very very early age.

1087
01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:50,920
Speaker 2: His background is so far from the royal family it's unbelievable.

1088
01:03:51,520 --> 01:03:57,440
Speaker 2: From my knowledge. He is Polish heritage, very broken upbringing,

1089
01:03:58,160 --> 01:04:02,520
Speaker 2: and he, in all intents and purposes, created his own

1090
01:04:02,560 --> 01:04:08,960
Speaker 2: system to survive. And his system was to fraudulently gain

1091
01:04:09,440 --> 01:04:13,680
Speaker 2: money from anywhere he could to create the life that

1092
01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:15,760
Speaker 2: he saw himself and that he wanted.

1093
01:04:16,760 --> 01:04:19,600
Speaker 1: And the life he wanted was one where he was wealthy,

1094
01:04:20,040 --> 01:04:21,760
Speaker 1: powerful and important.

1095
01:04:23,680 --> 01:04:27,000
Speaker 2: He wanted to be part of the royal family setting

1096
01:04:27,400 --> 01:04:33,360
Speaker 2: and he believed that he was destined for more. He

1097
01:04:33,520 --> 01:04:37,840
Speaker 2: had created his own reality, and I think the longer

1098
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:41,560
Speaker 2: he believed it, the more he believed it.

1099
01:04:43,040 --> 01:04:46,560
Speaker 1: Creating a string of fraudulent identities was more than just

1100
01:04:46,600 --> 01:04:49,760
Speaker 1: a dream of being rich. It was pathological.

1101
01:04:51,120 --> 01:04:56,080
Speaker 2: Every time he created this persona this person, he threw

1102
01:04:56,200 --> 01:04:59,680
Speaker 2: himself so hard into it that he then started to

1103
01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:03,760
Speaker 2: believe that he was this person. And I do think

1104
01:05:03,800 --> 01:05:05,280
Speaker 2: there's mental issues there.

1105
01:05:07,760 --> 01:05:10,840
Speaker 3: It's been three years since he met Leo, and Bernie

1106
01:05:10,920 --> 01:05:14,200
Speaker 3: still questions Leo's true motivations.

1107
01:05:14,840 --> 01:05:20,880
Speaker 2: Was his intention to outright going and commit fraud on

1108
01:05:21,040 --> 01:05:24,560
Speaker 2: every single person that he encountered, or was it that

1109
01:05:25,200 --> 01:05:30,120
Speaker 2: his world at certain points starts to crumble and he

1110
01:05:30,200 --> 01:05:33,080
Speaker 2: has to get what he can do and run to

1111
01:05:33,240 --> 01:05:37,960
Speaker 2: create another life for himself, that other life that he's

1112
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:39,640
Speaker 2: built up that is then crumbling.

1113
01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:43,120
Speaker 1: He got back to their first date when he was

1114
01:05:43,240 --> 01:05:46,680
Speaker 1: asked to take off his clothes. Was that a test?

1115
01:05:47,720 --> 01:05:48,600
Speaker 1: Was it blackmail?

1116
01:05:49,400 --> 01:05:52,440
Speaker 2: I've tried going back and be like, what did happen?

1117
01:05:52,520 --> 01:05:58,960
Speaker 2: Why did it happen? I have absolutely no idea, but

1118
01:05:59,080 --> 01:06:02,240
Speaker 2: I know it comes down to control.

1119
01:06:22,320 --> 01:06:26,280
Speaker 1: After having his heart broken and his own financial stability destroyed,

1120
01:06:27,080 --> 01:06:30,760
Speaker 1: Bernie learned who Leo truly was. He was left picking

1121
01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:32,360
Speaker 1: up the pieces in the aftermath.

1122
01:06:33,280 --> 01:06:38,480
Speaker 2: I don't know whether this is still my subconscious emotional tie,

1123
01:06:39,160 --> 01:06:41,320
Speaker 2: but I think there is an element that he had

1124
01:06:41,360 --> 01:06:45,880
Speaker 2: gone through so much and then he met me, and

1125
01:06:47,080 --> 01:06:49,680
Speaker 2: he had said many times that he was gay, he

1126
01:06:49,800 --> 01:06:53,000
Speaker 2: just couldn't be out. And I do believe that there's

1127
01:06:53,320 --> 01:07:00,040
Speaker 2: an element that I wasn't his typical target, and he

1128
01:07:00,120 --> 01:07:04,800
Speaker 2: wasn't there initially for money, and I do believe at

1129
01:07:04,840 --> 01:07:10,640
Speaker 2: some point he did get emotionally connected, because going after

1130
01:07:10,720 --> 01:07:13,760
Speaker 2: me for money wouldn't have made any sense.

1131
01:07:14,760 --> 01:07:17,880
Speaker 1: Bernie still wonders if that dream of going to Scotland

1132
01:07:17,960 --> 01:07:21,640
Speaker 1: together was a genuine offer to run away together.

1133
01:07:22,640 --> 01:07:25,680
Speaker 2: At some point, I do believe that he thought that

1134
01:07:25,800 --> 01:07:28,880
Speaker 2: he could get away from it all and escape with

1135
01:07:29,000 --> 01:07:33,000
Speaker 2: me and live that life that he had in his

1136
01:07:33,080 --> 01:07:37,680
Speaker 2: mind at the time. And I think potentially once it

1137
01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:44,040
Speaker 2: started getting a bit too real with me, that's when

1138
01:07:44,440 --> 01:07:49,320
Speaker 2: he went into what I would call default mode. And

1139
01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:53,000
Speaker 2: that's when the watch came. Because the watch conversation came

1140
01:07:53,600 --> 01:07:56,840
Speaker 2: very very late in the day, and then it ended

1141
01:07:57,120 --> 01:08:00,240
Speaker 2: very very quick because he had to have an new

1142
01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:03,080
Speaker 2: supply and obviously he couldn't leave empty handed.

1143
01:08:04,040 --> 01:08:08,760
Speaker 1: Bernie's right. Leo never left empty handed. In fact, he

1144
01:08:08,920 --> 01:08:12,600
Speaker 1: was running a major fraud scheme and the watches were

1145
01:08:12,640 --> 01:08:13,600
Speaker 1: at the center of it.

1146
01:08:14,480 --> 01:08:18,799
Speaker 2: Some businesses have come forward and said that that person

1147
01:08:18,880 --> 01:08:24,320
Speaker 2: had sold them a fake watch, and bear in mind

1148
01:08:24,439 --> 01:08:28,799
Speaker 2: these are big companies. They know how to evaluate watches.

1149
01:08:30,280 --> 01:08:33,920
Speaker 1: As more information came out, he learned that Leo defrauded

1150
01:08:33,920 --> 01:08:37,400
Speaker 1: Herod's department store out of a half a million pounds.

1151
01:08:38,160 --> 01:08:39,960
Speaker 1: It was all part of Leo's scam.

1152
01:08:40,960 --> 01:08:44,920
Speaker 2: He was on top of his game with regards to

1153
01:08:45,080 --> 01:08:49,960
Speaker 2: watches that he knew how to see a fake, a

1154
01:08:50,120 --> 01:08:53,640
Speaker 2: very good fake, and improve it to the level that

1155
01:08:54,040 --> 01:09:00,240
Speaker 2: it was a very convincing actual piece. He scammed a

1156
01:09:00,280 --> 01:09:04,160
Speaker 2: million pounds out of Harold's Like, you are a different level,

1157
01:09:04,600 --> 01:09:08,640
Speaker 2: a completely different level when you can do that. The

1158
01:09:08,840 --> 01:09:14,280
Speaker 2: knowledge that Leo had on watches, watch brands, the mechanics,

1159
01:09:14,320 --> 01:09:18,240
Speaker 2: the mechanical workings, There's no doubt in my mind he

1160
01:09:18,400 --> 01:09:22,800
Speaker 2: has studied watches for a long time.

1161
01:09:23,800 --> 01:09:29,040
Speaker 1: Leo also knew cars. He scammed Bentley dealerships and financial institutions.

1162
01:09:29,640 --> 01:09:32,639
Speaker 1: He always had multiple scams going at once.

1163
01:09:34,080 --> 01:09:39,280
Speaker 2: Absolutely the mind boggles. I do not understand that.

1164
01:09:40,360 --> 01:09:43,559
Speaker 1: In February twenty twenty five, Leo was sentenced to ten

1165
01:09:43,600 --> 01:09:46,960
Speaker 1: months in prison for having absconded from his original fraud

1166
01:09:47,000 --> 01:09:51,400
Speaker 1: conviction and five year sentence. It's unclear whether he will

1167
01:09:51,439 --> 01:09:54,360
Speaker 1: be criminally charged with respect to his conduct. While he

1168
01:09:54,439 --> 01:09:57,680
Speaker 1: was on the run, Bernie took to TikTok, where he

1169
01:09:57,720 --> 01:10:01,879
Speaker 1: shared his story. Through that experience, he has found language

1170
01:10:01,920 --> 01:10:04,479
Speaker 1: to describe Leo and what he did.

1171
01:10:05,439 --> 01:10:11,520
Speaker 2: TikTok was instrumental in me healing and starting that healing process.

1172
01:10:12,520 --> 01:10:16,000
Speaker 2: Somebody had commented on one of my posts and I

1173
01:10:16,040 --> 01:10:20,240
Speaker 2: went onto their profile and they talk about narcissist and

1174
01:10:20,360 --> 01:10:26,519
Speaker 2: narcissistic behavior, everything from the signs to the results of

1175
01:10:26,680 --> 01:10:29,400
Speaker 2: what it actually does to you for the long term,

1176
01:10:29,720 --> 01:10:33,759
Speaker 2: and instantly I was like, this is exactly what he

1177
01:10:33,800 --> 01:10:41,080
Speaker 2: was doing. With the amount of gaslighting, love bombing, breadcrumbing,

1178
01:10:41,760 --> 01:10:47,519
Speaker 2: you get so heavily sucked in that it does actually

1179
01:10:47,640 --> 01:10:51,439
Speaker 2: change your makeup and it changes the way you think.

1180
01:10:52,280 --> 01:10:55,200
Speaker 2: If you said in six months time, somebody is going

1181
01:10:55,240 --> 01:10:56,479
Speaker 2: to be in your life and you are going to

1182
01:10:56,479 --> 01:10:58,040
Speaker 2: be hanging on every word. You're not going to speak

1183
01:10:58,040 --> 01:11:00,160
Speaker 2: to your friends, you're not going to speak to your family,

1184
01:11:00,600 --> 01:11:04,880
Speaker 2: You're going to doubt everything that you say, I would

1185
01:11:04,920 --> 01:11:07,160
Speaker 2: literally have a laugh and say, carry on drinking. It

1186
01:11:07,160 --> 01:11:10,840
Speaker 2: would never happen to me. But it did.

1187
01:11:12,439 --> 01:11:14,760
Speaker 1: He'll carry the experience with him for the rest of

1188
01:11:14,800 --> 01:11:16,080
Speaker 1: his life.

1189
01:11:16,120 --> 01:11:21,280
Speaker 2: Your trust in other people after this is almost non existent.

1190
01:11:22,320 --> 01:11:26,080
Speaker 1: He lost a lot, But now Bernie is focused on

1191
01:11:26,120 --> 01:11:26,920
Speaker 1: what he does have.

1192
01:11:28,080 --> 01:11:30,920
Speaker 2: I have a beautiful soon to be a husband, and

1193
01:11:31,200 --> 01:11:34,040
Speaker 2: I've got a little puppy, and I've got amazing friends

1194
01:11:34,040 --> 01:11:40,639
Speaker 2: and family and actually neighbors. So I'm content. He will

1195
01:11:40,800 --> 01:11:46,280
Speaker 2: never ever in his life have what I have sat

1196
01:11:46,280 --> 01:11:50,639
Speaker 2: in this chair now, and I think that's just incredibly sad.

1197
01:11:51,400 --> 01:11:55,519
Speaker 2: I don't hate him, I don't think too much other

1198
01:11:55,600 --> 01:12:00,320
Speaker 2: than just sadness.

1199
01:12:02,640 --> 01:12:05,200
Speaker 1: Bernie wants to be a resource for other people who've

1200
01:12:05,240 --> 01:12:09,040
Speaker 1: been victims of scam artists and narcissists, and the best

1201
01:12:09,040 --> 01:12:11,640
Speaker 1: way for him to do that is on his TikTok

1202
01:12:12,120 --> 01:12:13,400
Speaker 1: at Berniet Brown.

1203
01:12:15,120 --> 01:12:18,960
Speaker 2: When I went on and I saw the tiktoks around

1204
01:12:19,040 --> 01:12:24,080
Speaker 2: narcissism and around the discard, the gas lighting, all of that,

1205
01:12:24,080 --> 01:12:28,640
Speaker 2: that for me was just the awakening moment. Now I

1206
01:12:28,680 --> 01:12:31,479
Speaker 2: can do that for somebody else out there, and it

1207
01:12:31,479 --> 01:12:33,519
Speaker 2: does take a little bit of courage, especially if you're

1208
01:12:33,520 --> 01:12:37,120
Speaker 2: going through it, or you are very fresh from a

1209
01:12:37,200 --> 01:12:40,720
Speaker 2: narcissistic encounter. I just want to be that point of

1210
01:12:40,760 --> 01:12:42,759
Speaker 2: call and be able to just listen.

1211
01:12:47,120 --> 01:12:51,240
Speaker 1: We end every weekly episode with the same question, why

1212
01:12:51,280 --> 01:12:53,960
Speaker 1: do you want to share your story?

1213
01:12:54,640 --> 01:12:58,760
Speaker 2: I know for a fact that there's thousands of leos

1214
01:12:58,960 --> 01:13:06,480
Speaker 2: around the world. That's why this conversation, I think is massively,

1215
01:13:07,160 --> 01:13:11,280
Speaker 2: massively important. You know, if I'd have known about certain

1216
01:13:11,320 --> 01:13:14,400
Speaker 2: things beforehand, maybe i'd have acted differently. Maybe I would't

1217
01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:16,479
Speaker 2: have gone through what I'd have gone through. Maybe I'd

1218
01:13:16,520 --> 01:13:20,240
Speaker 2: have acted differently halfway through, and I wouldn't have suffered

1219
01:13:20,240 --> 01:13:23,240
Speaker 2: as much. But you know, what's happened to me is done.

1220
01:13:23,960 --> 01:13:26,960
Speaker 2: But if I can share and open somebody else's eyes

1221
01:13:27,240 --> 01:13:31,160
Speaker 2: and say, you know, if this ain't right, then it's

1222
01:13:31,160 --> 01:13:31,599
Speaker 2: worth it.

1223
01:13:38,400 --> 01:13:42,360
Speaker 1: On the next episode of Betrayal Weekly, I mean shark

1224
01:13:42,400 --> 01:13:47,200
Speaker 1: and disbelief, like just nauseatingly sick. The reality, I guess

1225
01:13:47,280 --> 01:13:49,439
Speaker 1: is slowly sinking in that my life is all a lie.

1226
01:13:51,439 --> 01:13:54,120
Speaker 3: He's in the kitchen going to the coffee machine to

1227
01:13:54,160 --> 01:13:55,720
Speaker 3: make himself an espresso.

1228
01:13:56,200 --> 01:13:59,439
Speaker 1: And he literally looks at me and shrugs, and he's.

1229
01:13:59,280 --> 01:14:11,200
Speaker 3: Like, so, oh, if you would like to reach out

1230
01:14:11,240 --> 01:14:13,320
Speaker 3: to the Betrayal team or want to tell us your

1231
01:14:13,360 --> 01:14:17,160
Speaker 3: Betrayal story, Email us at Betrayalpod at gmail dot com.

1232
01:14:17,600 --> 01:14:21,760
Speaker 1: That's Betrayal Pod at gmail dot com, or follow us

1233
01:14:21,840 --> 01:14:25,640
Speaker 1: on Instagram at Betrayal Pod. You can also connect with

1234
01:14:25,720 --> 01:14:30,400
Speaker 1: me on Instagram at It's Andrea Gunning. To access our newsletter,

1235
01:14:30,640 --> 01:14:34,360
Speaker 1: view additional content, and connect with the Betrayal community, join

1236
01:14:34,439 --> 01:14:37,240
Speaker 1: our substack at Betrayal dot substack dot com.

1237
01:14:37,680 --> 01:14:40,759
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1238
01:14:40,800 --> 01:14:43,760
Speaker 3: is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts and

1239
01:14:43,800 --> 01:14:45,320
Speaker 3: don't forget to rate and review Betrayal.

1240
01:14:45,760 --> 01:14:48,719
Speaker 1: Five star reviews go a long way. A big thank

1241
01:14:48,760 --> 01:14:50,280
Speaker 1: you to all of our listeners.

1242
01:14:51,080 --> 01:14:53,880
Speaker 3: Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of

1243
01:14:53,920 --> 01:14:57,759
Speaker 3: Glass Entertainment Group and partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show

1244
01:14:57,840 --> 01:15:01,599
Speaker 3: is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer, hosted and

1245
01:15:01,640 --> 01:15:03,800
Speaker 3: produced by Me Andrea Gunning.

1246
01:15:04,000 --> 01:15:08,000
Speaker 1: Written and produced by Olivia Hewitt and Monique Leboard, also

1247
01:15:08,080 --> 01:15:09,360
Speaker 1: produced by Ben Fetterman.

1248
01:15:10,360 --> 01:15:14,000
Speaker 3: Casting support from Curry Richmond. Our iHeart team is Ali

1249
01:15:14,080 --> 01:15:15,560
Speaker 3: Perry and Jessica Krincheck.

1250
01:15:16,360 --> 01:15:20,200
Speaker 1: Audio editing and mixing by Matt del Vecchio, additional audio

1251
01:15:20,320 --> 01:15:21,719
Speaker 1: editing by Tanner Robbins.

1252
01:15:22,360 --> 01:15:27,160
Speaker 3: Betrayal's theme composed by Oliver Bain's music library provided by

1253
01:15:27,200 --> 01:15:31,240
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01:15:31,240 --> 01:15:39,920
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