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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to cool People. Did cool stuff the

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Speaker 2: thing that you already listened to probably at least once

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Speaker 2: this week. Otherwise, why did you? It says Part two

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Speaker 2: at like the top of the title. Are you your

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Speaker 2: brain works so differently from me? If you just clicked

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Speaker 2: part two as the first thing you clicked. I'm actually impressed,

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Speaker 2: but I'm not as impressed with you, the listener as

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Speaker 2: I am impressed with my guest, Molly Conquer Hi.

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Speaker 3: Molly, Hey, hargret, glad to be back.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for coming back on this totally separate day.

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Speaker 2: That made that joke like egg times, Everyone knows that

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Speaker 2: that laugh is the one and only Sophie, our producer.

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Speaker 1: Hi, Sophie, Hi, you can do that joke again. It

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Speaker 1: never it never gets old.

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Speaker 2: Yay. That's good. It's called a bit if you do

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Speaker 2: it over and over again. Yo, I'm learning how to

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Speaker 2: lame all for the bit, including the bit where everyone

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Speaker 2: has to say hi to Dan or audio engineer Hi, Danel,

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Speaker 2: Hi Dan Danel.

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Speaker 1: I commit to you as our audio engineer, Daniel, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and our and our friend.

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Speaker 2: Our theme music was written for us by un Woman,

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Speaker 2: and this week we are talking about the late sixties

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Speaker 2: and early seventies movement of anarcho pacifist Christian mystic hippie

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Speaker 2: dykers in the Netherlands who did a lot of really

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Speaker 2: wild and interesting shit. And uh, you should go back

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Speaker 2: and listen, because we talked about the Provos for the

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Speaker 2: first half of it. And now I promised you Nomes,

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Speaker 2: but first I'm going to do like several years between

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Speaker 2: the Provos and the Gnomes. Yeah, nothing will be left out.

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Speaker 2: Tons of things are left out. I do not understand

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Speaker 2: how people cover entire historical things in only one episode

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Speaker 2: of a podcast anymore. I'm like slowly drifting towards four

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Speaker 2: parters just so that like this one was even on

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Speaker 2: the cusp. Anyway, the Provos declared themselves disbanded, but they

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Speaker 2: didn't stop doing stuff or caring. They just declared the

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Speaker 2: movement dead and they sort of split up into different

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Speaker 2: stamen translated as tribes. You get this new hippie pacifist

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Speaker 2: neo provo magazine, the White Gazette. Everything in the White

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Speaker 2: Gazette was spelled phonetically and drawn psychedelically.

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Speaker 3: Oh I hate that absolutely.

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Speaker 2: I would absolutely hate actually being one of these people.

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Speaker 2: I do not like a lot of the aesthetics that they've.

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Speaker 3: Ficked is Dutch, because I don't speak German anymore, but

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Speaker 3: I was once fluent in German, and German is fully phonetic,

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Speaker 3: Like everything is spelled exactly the way it sounds like

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Speaker 3: when you say it spelled, like, is Dutch phonetic or

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Speaker 3: were they doing something funky?

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Speaker 2: They were doing something funky they were like because also,

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Speaker 2: I mean, even you can take English words that are

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Speaker 2: phonetic and then like rewrite them in like weird hippie

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Speaker 2: ways that are even longer than somehow you know they're

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Speaker 2: kind of doing that. I read some of the like

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Speaker 2: translations of their various titles and things, but I don't

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Speaker 2: know enough of the Dutch.

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Speaker 3: To tally get. I hate the vibe of that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I love what these people did. It is

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Speaker 2: not my subculture. That is how I feel about them

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Speaker 2: when you come back and tell me the exact same thing.

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Speaker 2: But everyone was Goths. I'm just like building a time machine.

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Speaker 2: But you have this similar divide in Amsterdam that you

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Speaker 2: had all over the late sixties movements. The radicals who

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Speaker 2: started the subculture started looking towards other political venues as

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Speaker 2: the politics are slowly stripped away from the subculture. The

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Speaker 2: beans and love fests stop antagonizing the cops, and the

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Speaker 2: original provos start looking into other ways to confront capitalism

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Speaker 2: besides subculture itself. In most other countries, this turns into

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Speaker 2: urban guerrilla warfare. The you know, the early seventies is

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Speaker 2: the period where people go underground and get guns. In

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Speaker 2: the Netherlands, they leaned more and their visions of alternatives

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Speaker 2: to capitalism. They set up a Digger store named after

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Speaker 2: the San Francisco Diggers we've covered on the show a

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Speaker 2: couple times, so everything at the store is free. Decades later,

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Speaker 2: the first functioning free stores I ever went to actually

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Speaker 2: were squatted storefronts. In Amsterdam. Some of the art weirdos

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Speaker 2: started the insect sect at war with environmental boredom and pollution,

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Speaker 2: and they put on operas for butterflies and built a

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Speaker 2: monument to the fallen butterfly.

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Speaker 3: I don't get it, but I love that for them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, there's so much of this period is that

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Speaker 2: I don't get it, but I love it for you.

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Speaker 3: Like they're just having a good time outside with their friends,

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Speaker 3: Like they're on drugs for.

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Speaker 2: Sure, absolutely, And you know, it's working well for them.

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Speaker 2: Squatters start opening up social centers with used bookstores attached.

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Speaker 2: And Amsterdam, meanwhile, the Netherlands more broadly, seems to fill

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Speaker 2: a similar role in Europe that like San Francisco and

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Speaker 2: California did in the United States. It's the place that

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Speaker 2: people go to hitchhike two and do drugs and hate society.

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Speaker 2: Soon they all start camping at doms Square, which is

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Speaker 2: the big national square where the National Monument is, and

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Speaker 2: shit right in the center of Amsterdam. And these are

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Speaker 2: called the dom slappers because they live in dom Square

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Speaker 2: and there were no restroom facilities provided for the Domslappers.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's a problem.

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Speaker 2: Day one. It was a problem day one. They pissed

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Speaker 2: and shit on the National monument and in the doorways

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Speaker 2: of local businesses. They were not change things. Do not change, no, no.

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Speaker 2: When you set up an occupation, you get the bathroom

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Speaker 2: set up first thing, day one. All the while the

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Speaker 2: students are doing their student organizing thing. That's the style

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Speaker 2: at the time. In April nineteen sixty nine, some students

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Speaker 2: took over the university with the slogan that translates weird

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Speaker 2: and boring as co determination for all sectors at all levels.

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Speaker 2: Maybe just fucking ripped in Dutch.

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Speaker 3: But octors in all levels. Yeah, what do we want

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Speaker 3: when we want it on an organized, an equal timeline.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is student occupation. Nineteen sixty nine ended up

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Speaker 2: a huge battle of police and five hundred and seventy arrests,

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Speaker 2: and the trials proved a pr nightmare for the government.

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Speaker 2: This idea of provoking the police continues to be a

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Speaker 2: very effective strategy in the Netherlands. Afterwards, the organizers adopted

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Speaker 2: a rigid Marxist Leninist line and almost everyone left the

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Speaker 2: movement as a result. According to the history book I read,

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Speaker 2: which was written by a former cabouter who was probably

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Speaker 2: a Progressive or Green Party person by the time they're

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Speaker 2: writing it, and was an anarchist in their youth. Just

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Speaker 2: to get the bias of the author out the whim,

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Speaker 2: fifteen hundred public school teachers formed the National Critical Teachers

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Speaker 2: Working Group opposed to the quote authoritarian garbage system of

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Speaker 2: education in the country, which ruled Oh yeah, high school

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Speaker 2: students start occupying buildings like they occupied the like Catholic

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Speaker 2: Pedagogical Institute or something, because like some kids got in

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Speaker 2: trouble for like playing with a condom, like they weren't

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Speaker 2: fucking there was like literally holding a condom in class,

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Speaker 2: and then like people were like, fuck you old school Catholics.

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Speaker 2: You can't tell us not to have condoms. And its cool.

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Speaker 2: Everywhere people are just getting into rad shit movements to

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Speaker 2: stop urban renewal. There's like this thing where the urban

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Speaker 2: renewal was attempting to destroy the Jewish Quarter, which had

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Speaker 2: already been heavily destroyed by the war, and so people

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Speaker 2: got together to fight it. Composers and classical musicians started

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Speaker 2: fighting against the classical music establishment. People started throwing tomatoes

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Speaker 2: at Shakespeare plays because it's the same old shit or whatever,

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Speaker 2: which is funny because like Shakespeare's actually kind of cool,

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Speaker 2: but like I get it, you're being mad at the

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Speaker 2: establishment of theater.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we're going back to basics. I think the tomatoes

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Speaker 3: are oldest time.

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Speaker 2: I know, Shakespeare probably would approve. And the squatters start

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Speaker 2: getting even more organized, starting these like action groups, and

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Speaker 2: you have like like when I live there, squatting was

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Speaker 2: organized by neighborhood and you had a neighborhood squad councils.

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Speaker 2: If you wanted to open a building, you would go

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Speaker 2: to the squad council and the day that you open

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Speaker 2: the building, one hundred people would come with you and

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Speaker 2: hold back the police while you open the building.

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Speaker 3: Oh that's beautiful.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it is a I think there's this thing where

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Speaker 2: like people think that certain tactics don't work well, and

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Speaker 2: I think it's certain taxes don't work well. Not every

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Speaker 2: tactic is appropriate every situation, but a lot of tactics

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Speaker 2: don't work when they're not organized, and work really well

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Speaker 2: when they're organized. And that doesn't mean that it has

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Speaker 2: to be hierarchical. It just means that you have to

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Speaker 2: fucking work together.

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Speaker 3: Right, There's that persistent myth and anarchism means you can't

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Speaker 3: have a plan.

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Speaker 2: Right exactly, which is like one of the problems of

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Speaker 2: the anarchism is a lot of the anarchists have also

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Speaker 2: heard that myth and believe it. You know, feminism is

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Speaker 2: on the rise. This is the start of the second Wave,

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Speaker 2: which we mostly talk shit on now, but there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of good things that were coming out of it.

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Speaker 2: And you've got a direct action playful socialist feminist group

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Speaker 2: called mad Mina named after an early Dutch feminist socialist

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Speaker 2: named Wilhelma Druker and mad Mina is into the ludic activism,

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Speaker 2: the playful activism of the time. On the twenty third

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Speaker 2: of January nineteen seventy, fifteen women and five men stormed

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Speaker 2: a men only business school, while the same day more

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Speaker 2: of them burned corsets in public. I've read this translated

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Speaker 2: braziers and never like, and I've read it translated corsets.

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Speaker 3: I don't know, because I thought that the sort of

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Speaker 3: the American feminist braw burning was largely a myth, But

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Speaker 3: it sounds like this really did happen.

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Speaker 2: So these people were absolutely doing this. And it might

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Speaker 2: have been a corset and it might have been a bra,

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Speaker 2: but yeah, no, it's one of those things where like

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Speaker 2: myths have their some origin of truth. They did the

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Speaker 2: one action that I can't fully sign off on, but

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Speaker 2: it's still my favorite one they did. They just started

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Speaker 2: wolf whistling men in the streets. That was like a

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Speaker 2: big thing that they did. I'm not mad at it, no, No,

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Speaker 2: it's like one of those things were like in the abstract,

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Speaker 2: You're like, look, this shouldn't happen to anyone. But I'm

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Speaker 2: a little bit like, as I used to do this

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Speaker 2: as a when I was like a young crustal. This

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Speaker 2: is way too much of me in this episode, but whatever,

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Speaker 2: when I was like a young squatter punk and I

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Speaker 2: was still presenting as a boy and had a beard

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Speaker 2: and all that stuff. But some of the women in

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Speaker 2: our group were getting cat called by the businessmen, like

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Speaker 2: walking to work when they would walk past us where

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Speaker 2: we sat on the street, because we were crosspunks. And

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Speaker 2: we learned that if us squatter boys cat called the men,

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Speaker 2: they got really uncomfortable and didn't really come by anymore.

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Speaker 2: And so my favorite was, how is it swinging hot cock?

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Speaker 2: But I would never sexually harass anyone. I've never done

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Speaker 2: anything like I just said.

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Speaker 3: Well, they were called provocatives, right, they were provoking.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, totally, I'm not mad at them, these people

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Speaker 2: for doing this, like the provos MADMENA tied this theatrical

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Speaker 2: action to specific and achievable goals. They fought for abortion rights,

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Speaker 2: they fought for equal pay, they fought for daycare centers

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Speaker 2: and shit like that. And it's that pairing. They would

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Speaker 2: take playful action and they would pair it to specific

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Speaker 2: and achievable goals. And now you know, I'm not saying

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Speaker 2: this is the best way to solve every problem. There's

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Speaker 2: problems in this and it actually some of it is

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Speaker 2: that it's fairly easy to be recuperated, and that happened

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Speaker 2: a lot to what these folks did. But it also

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Speaker 2: accomplishes a lot sometimes, you know. Overall, after the provos,

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Speaker 2: the political and personal revolutions of the sixties were distinct

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Speaker 2: from one from one another again until this is my favorite,

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Speaker 2: until because usually those just stay distinct, and the hippies

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Speaker 2: and the radicals narrow. The twains shall ever meet again,

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Speaker 2: you know, until the cabouters.

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Speaker 3: Gnomes, gnobesnobs, no gnomes.

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Speaker 2: So we're going to go back to this guy. Ruven

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Speaker 2: Don was the He was the anarchist who'd shown up

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Speaker 2: to the happenings with some ideas he'd like written up

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Speaker 2: that first paper. You know, after the provo collapsed, he

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Speaker 2: fell into a depression. And this is a very common

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Speaker 2: thing that actually, I assume a lot of our listeners

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Speaker 2: are still dealing with the high point of a large

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Speaker 2: social movement. What comes after is often very depressing. He

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Speaker 2: got out of it in the classic way. This is

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Speaker 2: not the classic way. It's a very strange way. He

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Speaker 2: obsessively read Peter Kropotkin, the Russian prince who became an

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Speaker 2: anarchist and was a major developer of the concept of

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Speaker 2: mutual aid as a factor of evolution in the animal kingdom.

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Speaker 3: He's definitely not the only one to have gone down that.

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Speaker 2: Road, that's true. The other way he got out of

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Speaker 2: his depression, and this one was actually doctor's orders, and

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Speaker 2: I actually think is a fairly good here's to a

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Speaker 2: society where the doctor can prescribe this to you and

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Speaker 2: you can do it. He started to work on a farm.

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Speaker 3: I thought you were going to say heroin. They weren't

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Speaker 3: describing that. They weren't prescribing that in the sixties.

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Speaker 2: I don't know enough about drug history. They prescribe him

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Speaker 2: to work on a biodynamic farm, which is a bigger

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Speaker 2: in Europe than it is in the US. But biodynamics

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Speaker 2: is like halfway between organic farming and witchcraft. It's like

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Speaker 2: where you like plant by the sea, the moon and stuff,

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Speaker 2: and it's very interesting, but it's whatever. And while he's

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Speaker 2: out working on this farm, he falls in love with

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Speaker 2: a piece of Dutch folklore that went on to become

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Speaker 2: rather important. The cabouter goboucher is usually translated as a gnome,

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Speaker 2: and that's where a lot of the modern ideas of

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Speaker 2: gnomes come from. The famous art book called Gnome with

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Speaker 2: a Big Beard, red hatted guy. That book is originally

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Speaker 2: Dutch and it's called gobouter. Cabouchers are forest spirits that

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Speaker 2: come to hang out on farms and help out during

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Speaker 2: the night. And the etymology is obscured by time, but

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Speaker 2: it seems to likely to refer to a pagan spirit

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Speaker 2: associated with some specific place. So it's like a lot

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Speaker 2: of European mythology comes from pre Christian pagan practice. You know,

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Speaker 2: on the farm, people cared about the cabouters. They didn't

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Speaker 2: use modern machinery because it scares the cabouters, and the

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Speaker 2: cabouchers were a metaphor to quote former Provo and kabouterer

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Speaker 2: Coen Tasman, who wrote the main book that I ended

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Speaker 2: up using as a source for this, because there's not

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Speaker 2: a lot of English Langue sources about the Cabalter. It's

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Speaker 2: called clearly cabalter from his book. A humanity that views

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Speaker 2: nature as an ally and not as an adversary to

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Speaker 2: be conquered. That's what the Cabalter's represented. I'm so fucking into.

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Speaker 3: It how much of this is and I guess it's

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Speaker 3: hard to separate, right, but how much of this at

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Speaker 3: this time, at least in the countryside, is a sincere

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Speaker 3: holding on to of this sort of folk belief. Like

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Speaker 3: I know, there's some story a couple of years ago

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Speaker 3: in Iceland about a highway that had to be rerouted

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Speaker 3: because the place where they were going to build the road,

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Speaker 3: the people in the small town in Iceland were like, no,

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Speaker 3: but like the Gnome lives there, you can't build the

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Speaker 3: road where the Noome lives. And there was you know,

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Speaker 3: I think initially a lot of people sort of joking

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Speaker 3: around like oly people in Iceland really believe that, and

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Speaker 3: some of it may have been sincere belief, but I

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Speaker 3: think some of it was people using this sort of

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Speaker 3: folkloric belief that was common in the region for an

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Speaker 3: environmental purpose.

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Speaker 2: So I am not certain, and I spent a while

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Speaker 2: thinking about this. I think that probably the farmers both

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Speaker 2: knew it was a metaphor and also let that metaphor

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Speaker 2: be real, because I think that is the theological impulse.

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Speaker 2: I think the theological impulse is the letting metaphor be real,

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Speaker 2: And that's my read on it. As I think that

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Speaker 2: they both did and didn't believe it and held on

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Speaker 2: to both of those things because it was like useful

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Speaker 2: to them. But I don't know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's I think that's where I sort

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Speaker 3: of landed reading those stories about the Gnome and Iceland,

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Speaker 3: that was, Yeah, it both is and isn't a sincere belief,

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Speaker 3: and in.

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Speaker 2: The end it kind of doesn't matter, yeah, exactly. And

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Speaker 2: maybe because it's like that's the way that I like it, right,

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Speaker 2: I like it as a metaphor you choose to take seriously,

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Speaker 2: you know, And so maybe that's me reading into it

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Speaker 2: what I would what I would do, But I don't know. Overall,

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Speaker 2: the biodynamic thing is like very witchy and often in

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Speaker 2: ways that are kind of like I've talked to some

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Speaker 2: biodynamic farmers about like like, yeah, we stick with the

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Speaker 2: dynamic thing because it sells better in the market than

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Speaker 2: instead of just labeling it organic. But it's a little

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Speaker 2: bit weird, you know, like it's like a very but

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Speaker 2: other people like totally into it. Very complicated.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I have a complicated relationship with the Black

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Speaker 3: Soldier fly larva that do my composting.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 3: It's and so a supposed as you can get to

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Speaker 3: biodynamic farming in an apartment.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. So the kabouchers are helpful, but also mocking

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Speaker 2: is like one of their things, right, They like, they're

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Speaker 2: going to come and do all this work at night,

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Speaker 2: but they're going to kind of pick fun of you

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Speaker 2: at you too, And that's very the ludic activism. It

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Speaker 2: is the playful activism, and so depressed anarchy boy Room.

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Speaker 2: He builds up a whole political theory out of them.

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Speaker 2: It's the marriage of opposites, the country and the city,

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Speaker 2: the masculine and the feminine, of amateur and professional work.

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Speaker 2: He declared that a kaboucher city, a kaboucher stad, would

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Speaker 2: be guided rather than governed, and he wrote a book

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Speaker 2: his theories called The Message from a Wise Cabouter, with

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Speaker 2: the kaboucher, in this case not being like him, but

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Speaker 2: his favorite bearding man, Peter Kerpotkin. And so he found

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Speaker 2: his way out of despair by hard, honest work and

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Speaker 2: by reading anarchist theory, and by hearing from people all

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Speaker 2: around the world who had been inspired by the work

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Speaker 2: of the provos and realizing that it hadn't all been

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Speaker 2: for naught. In nineteen sixty nine, he came back to

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Speaker 2: Amsterdam and he became the fourth Provo of the Amsterdam

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Speaker 2: Municipal Council. Like you know, I mentioned earlier that they

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Speaker 2: on to each other. Yeah, and his predecessor on the

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Speaker 2: council and his mentor on what to do with it

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Speaker 2: was this woman Irene, who'd started the sex education classes

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Speaker 2: for women. And I think that part's important because she

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Speaker 2: kind of like it was like a one line thing.

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Speaker 2: It's like, oh, and his mentor Irene, And I'm like m.

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Speaker 3: Hmm, what was she mentoring him in?

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Speaker 2: Well, I've just mean like this this great man history

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Speaker 2: thing where it's like Rue is like the he becomes

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Speaker 2: the face of the cabouters and he was a little

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Speaker 2: bit the face of the provos. And that's like contentious

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Speaker 2: right even at the time, But like he's cool and

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Speaker 2: his cool stuff at least at this point. But he's

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Speaker 2: not alone in doing this, you know. But what he

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Speaker 2: chooses to do with his seat is fucking cool. His

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Speaker 2: nomebook had done pretty well and so people are like

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Speaker 2: kind of listening to him. At this point, he figured,

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Speaker 2: all right, let's make Amsterdam a utopia. Let's make it

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Speaker 2: Amsterdam Kebaltristad and a lot of people do a lot

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Speaker 2: of damage in history trying to create utopia because usually,

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Speaker 2: including a bunch of anarchists, they'll go to a colonial

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Speaker 2: place like America and then like be like, we're going

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Speaker 2: to set up a utopia. They decided to do it

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Speaker 2: where they already lived and where they were from, and

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Speaker 2: that is a more respectable decision. So he wrote up

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Speaker 2: his proposals, and according to his proposals, Amsterdam needed more

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Speaker 2: gardens and more trees, sheep and goats. Yeah, absolutely, Sheep

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Speaker 2: and goats could be kept on rooftop gardens. Flowers and

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Speaker 2: food should be planted everywhere. The only cars allowed in

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Speaker 2: the city would be provo style white cars, which was

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Speaker 2: and this wasn't his idea. This is actually the guy

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Speaker 2: who did the white by School program later came up

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Speaker 2: with the white cars, which were electric cars. In the

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Speaker 2: fuck nineteen sixty eight nineteen sixty nine, they were talking

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Speaker 2: about electric cars and started making them.

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Speaker 3: They were living in the year three thousand.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and they were electric cars for anyone to use.

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Speaker 2: Administrative power would be decentralized along anarchist lines, with community

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Speaker 2: and neighborhood councils, empowered in all ways. Schools and universities

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Speaker 2: would become democratic, and then industry wouldn't just be democratic.

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Speaker 2: This is actually ahead of its time. Most workplace democracy

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Speaker 2: pushes for workers cooperatives, and I'm all about it. But

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Speaker 2: they argued that, or he argued in the later Mark

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Speaker 2: Abouchers argued that industry should be run not solely by

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Speaker 2: the workers, but by councils composed of both the workers

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Speaker 2: and the consumers to make sure that what's being produced

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Speaker 2: is what's needed.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 2: He also he had spent eleven days in prison at

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Speaker 2: some point recently. I think it was for public seeing

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Speaker 2: that bomb making instructions back at the very beginning of

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Speaker 2: it all.

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Speaker 3: But I'm not sure you mistake anyone could make.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, who hasn't. He also said that that prison should

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Speaker 2: become a people's astronomical observatory. You will be shocked to

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Speaker 2: know that his ideas did not find too much traction

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Speaker 2: among city council, where he was like one of you

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Speaker 2: forty people or whatever you know.

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Speaker 3: Now, the resolution to put sheep on the roof didn't

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Speaker 3: take no weirdly enough, and they constantly declared him out

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Speaker 3: of order whenever he tried to speak.

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Speaker 2: But he got media attention, and he set up meetings

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Speaker 2: every two weeks that were open to the public where

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Speaker 2: he would tell people what was going on in city council,

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Speaker 2: and he would ask people affected by specific city council

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Speaker 2: decisions to come and advise him directly. So he's not

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Speaker 2: just like, my ideas are what city council needs to do,

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 3: No, he's actually trying to engage in democracy. Yeah, which

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Speaker 3: a lot of elected officials are very resistant too.

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Speaker 2: It's almost like there's something about the nature of power.

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Speaker 2: He called these meetings cabouterer meetings, because of course he did. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 2: all these hippies are sleeping on Doms Square and pissing

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Speaker 2: on the National Monument, and the city council is like,

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Speaker 2: maybe we should ban sleeping there, which is funny. I

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Speaker 2: just assumed it was illegal from the start, right because

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Speaker 2: like in America, we assume that we don't have any

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Speaker 2: rights to public space. But it was a big deal

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Speaker 2: that they were like considering banning sleeping in public and

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Speaker 2: Rue just argued, hey, I got an idea, what if

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Speaker 2: we put up bathrooms?

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Speaker 3: I mean, a revolutionary baffling. How could you think of

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Speaker 3: something so brilliant.

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Speaker 2: And What's also funny is actually Amsterdam is like a

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Speaker 2: little bit famous for the men's journals in public. I

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Speaker 2: did not know that, which is actually I don't have

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Speaker 2: a problem with. But one of the things that Madmena

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Speaker 2: and I think another one of the direct action feminist

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Speaker 2: groups around the time was doing is demanding women's public urinals.

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Speaker 2: And there's actually I actually wonder because there's some of

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Speaker 2: these public urinals. They're funny. They're just like a it's

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Speaker 2: like a post with like four holes. You just like

427
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Speaker 2: walk up to it and four men can walk up

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Speaker 2: to it at once and pee into it.

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Speaker 3: So was this like solving a social problem of men

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Speaker 3: just pissing on the street. Yeah, so they already kind

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Speaker 3: of knew that that was the solution to people pissing outside.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, absolutely, Yeah, it's.

433
00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,320
Speaker 4: A problem they'd alread addressed as to a society. Yeah, totally,

434
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:23,760
Speaker 4: but they wouldn't do it there. And uh, and I

435
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:26,320
Speaker 4: actually wonder whether some of the women's ones don't exist,

436
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:28,560
Speaker 4: because there is another style where it's a little bit

437
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:30,920
Speaker 4: you have some privacy. It's a kind of a it's

438
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:33,119
Speaker 4: like almost like a little.

439
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,879
Speaker 2: Roundabout that you like walk into. It's this tiny little

440
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:39,360
Speaker 2: thing the size of a phone booth. But instead of door,

441
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:42,320
Speaker 2: you just walk around a circle in a spiral and

442
00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 2: there's a hole in the ground and you can pee

443
00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:44,359
Speaker 2: in it.

444
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:47,399
Speaker 3: I mean, I would solve so many problems.

445
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:50,320
Speaker 2: I know. And so he's like, all right, why don't

446
00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:52,560
Speaker 2: we just put up bathrooms. But he also said that

447
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 2: the National Monument was the monument's colonial oppression of Indonesia,

448
00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:57,960
Speaker 2: and that pissed off the Mare so much that he

449
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,199
Speaker 2: was cut out. His talk was cut out for the

450
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 2: meetings minutes.

451
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:02,679
Speaker 3: Well, that's against the rules.

452
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:06,199
Speaker 2: Well, I think it wasn't at the time, and that

453
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:08,200
Speaker 2: was kind of one of the things. Anything that was

454
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:12,720
Speaker 2: like censured bad. Yeah, And so he went on to

455
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:18,320
Speaker 2: specifically fuck with that rule. He wrote the Sabotage Memorandum,

456
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,359
Speaker 2: which is a formal proposal the city council that the

457
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 2: city council should approve of Dutch citizens sabotaging the Dutch military,

458
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:30,040
Speaker 2: up to and including seducing and killing soldiers. I bet

459
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 2: that one over really good. And what's funny about it,

460
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,719
Speaker 2: it sounds so out of the blue. The Netherlands is

461
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,639
Speaker 2: reeling from its from occupation. Most of the people who

462
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:43,760
Speaker 2: are twenty grew up during that right and there's this

463
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:47,639
Speaker 2: national shame that they didn't do more. They had one

464
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,200
Speaker 2: of the most active resistance movements in Europe, A ton

465
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 2: of people participated, but they hadn't really succeeded. A large

466
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:55,439
Speaker 2: majority of that country's Jewish population had been murdered by

467
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,119
Speaker 2: the Nazis, and this is a national shame that they

468
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:01,400
Speaker 2: still bear. And so the idea idea of the Sabotage

469
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 2: Memorandum was an argument that basically the Dutch people should

470
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 2: be trained to do better next time. And this is

471
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:09,960
Speaker 2: actually we talked about this earlier in the US. The

472
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 2: right wing has this particular militia mentality, right that every

473
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 2: patriot needs to be ready to overthrow the government with

474
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:19,879
Speaker 2: like ar fifteens. This was a mostly pacifist Dutch version

475
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,879
Speaker 2: of a similar thing, one based on actual recent history.

476
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 2: For them, the people need to be ready to sabotage

477
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:31,879
Speaker 2: authoritarian rule. But to ruin and other folks, that included

478
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 2: the current capitalist system.

479
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,200
Speaker 3: Right, because that's the occupying force. Now, yeah, it makes sense.

480
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah no. And I first read about it and

481
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:40,399
Speaker 2: I was like, ah, it's clever, and then they like

482
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 2: read a little bit more about it and like put

483
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 2: in some other pieces and was like, oh, that's really

484
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:45,399
Speaker 2: fucking clever.

485
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 3: It's got layers.

486
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and much like the layers of irony in running

487
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:59,479
Speaker 2: this podcast in an ad sponsored way, like these ads

488
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:13,959
Speaker 2: here and we're back. So the mayor vetoed this as

489
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 2: a discussion. He submitted it formally as like appropriated all

490
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 2: of paperwork, you know, And the mayor was like, nope,

491
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 2: because if we had as a proper discussion, we would

492
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:24,359
Speaker 2: be publishing the whole thing right in the minutes of.

493
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 3: The meeting, and you got to put the whole document

494
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 3: in the agenda.

495
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, those are the rules. Yeah. So the public and

496
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,280
Speaker 2: press pushed and pushed, and of course the rest of

497
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 2: the city council didn't go for the plan, but they

498
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 2: did end up pushing enough to get it entered into

499
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:41,920
Speaker 2: public discussion. So they put they put the sex stortion.

500
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:43,720
Speaker 3: Plan in the minutes. They put it in the minutes

501
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 3: that the mayor got mad.

502
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:49,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. Meanwhile, the cabouncers are forming as a group

503
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 2: and Ru's not in charge, Like that's part of how

504
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 2: they fall apart, is whether or not Ru's in charge.

505
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,399
Speaker 2: We'll get to that. And they're like, all right, well,

506
00:25:57,440 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 2: it didn't work in city council. So we're gonna put

507
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:03,199
Speaker 2: together the people University for sabotage, and we are going

508
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:05,920
Speaker 2: to train youth and counter recruitment and generally try to

509
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 2: stop the Western war machine. And this becomes more and

510
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,920
Speaker 2: more popular, and some other folks show up one day

511
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 2: and they bring a proposal. Let's just declare a new government,

512
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:17,920
Speaker 2: a people's government.

513
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 3: As a bit, just really commit to the bit. The

514
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 3: government will have to laugh.

515
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:26,440
Speaker 1: It.

516
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 2: It worked, It even made the government law. It's so weird.

517
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 2: This is I'm so excited about this story.

518
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 3: I just feel like that would not work in America.

519
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:35,880
Speaker 1: No.

520
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 2: But also, we wouldn't do it as a joke, we

521
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 2: take seriously. Instead, we would just like do it, you know,

522
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 2: and it wouldn't be the same. And also, I mean,

523
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 2: there's this thing that happens where like, for example, I

524
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 2: think in a two thousand and five or eight or

525
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 2: something like that, some leaders within the Lakota Nation attempted

526
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 2: to secede from the United States in a very reasonable

527
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 2: way from my point of view, and it was just ignored.

528
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,159
Speaker 3: Right, I guess that's the best case scenario when you're

529
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 3: talking about the US government.

530
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:09,919
Speaker 2: Yes, that's sad and true. So on February fifth, nineteen seventy,

531
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 2: the assemble crowd at the People's University declared the Orange

532
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:17,160
Speaker 2: Free State the parity of government. It would have its

533
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 2: own assemblies and decision making bodies, but the whole thing

534
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 2: was designed to mock the idea of the state, especially monarchy.

535
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,639
Speaker 2: If occupy was a joke that took itself seriously, is

536
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:28,199
Speaker 2: what this was.

537
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 3: Oh, they have gesture's privilege right, Oh my god, totally.

538
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,360
Speaker 3: Like the police can't be mad because you're the gester. Yeah,

539
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 3: and like your mind with a king.

540
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,159
Speaker 2: Yeah. And when people come and like attack it, it

541
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 2: makes the police look bad. The name the Orange Free

542
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 2: State was a play on words because it was orange free,

543
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 2: right without the House of Orange. Oh, but also it's

544
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 2: like state free, like without the state, or you could

545
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:58,399
Speaker 2: just read it straight and it's the Orange Free State.

546
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,239
Speaker 3: It works on so many levels, I know, I know.

547
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:07,439
Speaker 2: So Amsterdam City Hall was now the Councilor's embassy with

548
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:11,200
Speaker 2: the existing state, so their council member was no longer

549
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 2: like their council member, he was their ambassadory. Yeah. The

550
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 2: countercultural magazine Aloha was nationalized and became the Orange free

551
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:24,120
Speaker 2: state government gazette and their proclamation. They of course they

552
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:26,199
Speaker 2: print up a proclamation. The whole point you're doing this

553
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 2: is you get the proclamation. Yeah. Whereas and it opened,

554
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 2: how does a new society grow out of an old one?

555
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 2: Like a toadstool on a rotting tree stump, and it

556
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,479
Speaker 2: talks about how it's going to take what's useful from

557
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 2: the old society, but something entirely new. And there's another

558
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 2: part in it that I like, quote, why does the

559
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 2: old society perish? Because it can't save itself from its

560
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 2: own conflicts? Political tensions between existing authoritarian governments can explode

561
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 2: into a military catastrophe at any moment. Official technology and

562
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 2: industry's aggresson against nature systematically demolish the biological environment, and

563
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 2: apocalyptic catastrophes will result within a few years. They were

564
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 2: off by a couple decades, but they're not fucking wrong.

565
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 2: Unprecedented epidemics, food poisoning and famine, mass extinction of animals

566
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 2: and humans are inevitable if this isn't averted by the

567
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 2: rise of a new culture. A new culture with a

568
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 2: new man, the culture gnome will remove the tension between

569
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 2: nature and the old culture who understands animals and unites

570
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 2: people in love. Who will restore unity among everything that lives. Oh,

571
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 2: I'm the culture Gnome. I'm doing this. It's so fucking

572
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 2: good because it's not just who's going to replace the

573
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 2: old world? Fuck everything that ever came from the old world.

574
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 2: It's like, no, we are mushrooms and we're going to

575
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 2: grow out of the rot of the old world. And

576
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 2: the Gnome is going to help tie the old world

577
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 2: and the new world together.

578
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 3: That's so beautiful.

579
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 2: And so this was printed in the tens of thousands

580
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 2: and distributed across the country for fifty cents a copy

581
00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 2: and was like a one of the major fundraising things

582
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 2: or the Orange Free State. They wrote a raucous national

583
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 2: anthem called the Owl Sits in the Elms, and I

584
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 2: could not find a recording of it, but the lyrics are.

585
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 3: We have to somewhere Internet parties.

586
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 2: I know, I bet you there's someone who could just

587
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 2: sing it to us. I'm sure that like an old

588
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:22,239
Speaker 2: dutch Man, surely, the owl sits in the elms at

589
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 2: the falling of the night, and over yonder hill, the

590
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 2: cuckoo softly calls cuckoo, cuckoo, cuckoo, cuckoo. Cuckoo, so true,

591
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 2: and it's just like I love that it's nonsense.

592
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 3: Is it a metaphor?

593
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 2: The cuckoo is a trickster bird who lays eggs in

594
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 2: other birds' nests. Okay, but it was mostly because it

595
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 2: was nonsense and fun to sing. One of the first

596
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 2: things they did. They're in the National the Domb Square, right,

597
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 2: They're the big place where the National Monument is. So

598
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 2: they chip a hole in the paving stones. These motherfuckers.

599
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 2: They tear up so many paving stones. It's gonna be

600
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 2: so good.

601
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 3: Do they make a piss hole?

602
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 2: No, they go and they plant and their national monument

603
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 2: of their own, which is a dwarf orange tree. Oh.

604
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 3: Is it the one with the horrible thorns?

605
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 2: Oh? I don't know. Does it have horrible thorns?

606
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 1: Oh?

607
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 3: So, my mom has something called I guess it's a

608
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 3: mutant orange tree. But it makes these tiny little oranges

609
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 3: that are really bitter. But the oranges are about this big,

610
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 3: but the thorns are like as big as these big

611
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 3: curved thorns. I hope it's one of those.

612
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 2: I hope so too. I think it's just one of

613
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 2: those like shorter orange trees, just like.

614
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 3: A little orange tree, because the mutant orange tree I

615
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 3: think would be a beautiful symbol for the gnomes.

616
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 2: Now, that would be if they did it again now

617
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 2: as the apocalypse is like here instead of the thing

618
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 2: that seems like to be in the future, you know,

619
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 2: as like they have to plant it on a rooftop

620
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 2: garden because the dam's break And anyway, the mayor cut

621
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 2: down the orange tree the next day, but he was

622
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 2: kind of savvy about it. He started playing along with

623
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 2: the joke, and he was basically like, well, it would

624
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 2: be rude for one friendly nation to place a monument

625
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 2: in the territory of another friendly nation, and we're not

626
00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 2: at war with each other.

627
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 3: Well, they should said it was a gift, like the

628
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 3: Statue of Liberty or something.

629
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 2: I know, right. The Orange Free State lasted for over

630
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 2: a year, from February nineteen seventy to April nineteen seventy one.

631
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 2: About two thousand people were like pretty directly involved, not

632
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 2: including their tens of thousands of supporters, voters, and magazine readers.

633
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 2: Among their organizers were teachers and students, dropouts, plumbers and inventor,

634
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 2: a millionaire, priests, small shopkeepers, dozens of people who made

635
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 2: and sold clothes for a living. The counterculture fashion at

636
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 2: the time was to only wear handmade clothes. About a

637
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 2: third of them were women, and two thirds of them

638
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,239
Speaker 2: were under twenty five, and they raised most of their

639
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 2: money by selling various periodicals. And it was a playful

640
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 2: game that they took seriously. The mainstream world was the

641
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 2: shadow world, and those who tried to shut down the

642
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 2: cabouters were trolls, enemy of the Nome. The kabouchers who

643
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 2: traveled out from Amsterdam were missionaries and wandering preachers. A

644
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 2: bunch of other cities started chapters, and these days the

645
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 2: cabouts are less known about than the provos, or just

646
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 2: more written about the provos. But they were actually a

647
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 2: substantially bigger deal. There was like two thousand news articles

648
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 2: written about them in the year that they existed. They

649
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 2: had more people, more projects, and in the end more votes.

650
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 2: They spread out across the country when they put together Slate.

651
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 2: We'll talk about more in a little bit. That Slate

652
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,719
Speaker 2: garnered thirty eight thousand votes in Amsterdam in the nineteen

653
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 2: seventy elections. That's eleven percent of the votes, and they

654
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 2: got five seats, and they got six seats spread out elsewhere.

655
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 3: That's not nothing for a bit, Yeah, absolutely, I mean

656
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 3: that's a you can't get a third party candidate that

657
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 3: many seats now.

658
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 2: No, all the while they are wild hippies breaking the law,

659
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 2: they are opening squats for housing and social centers. They

660
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 2: turned one building into the state theater of the Orange

661
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 2: Free State, and they were claim me an autonomous territory

662
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 2: within the Netherlands. They were squatting.

663
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 3: They're like making sovereign territory.

664
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, as a joke, but also real.

665
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 3: Like the gnome right, it's it's a metaphor, that's.

666
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:20,280
Speaker 2: Real, exactly exactly, And this squatted territory was often functionally

667
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 2: sovereign within the Netherlands because squatters defended it. And this

668
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 2: is actually when we get past this is like the

669
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 2: squatters leave the non violence behind and start throwing monotops

670
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 2: at cops within a decade. A friend of mine was

671
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,720
Speaker 2: a bartender at a Dutch squatted bar in the nineties

672
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 2: and she told me this story. One night, a cop

673
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 2: parked out front of the bar, but did it on

674
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 2: punk night, so drunk punk squatters went out and burned

675
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 2: the cop car. I mean, what were they supposed to do?

676
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 2: The cops arrived hat in hands and apologized for having

677
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 2: parked a cop car in front of the bar, and

678
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 2: it would not happen again.

679
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 3: Goddamn right, got dear with that.

680
00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 2: A proper country power concedes not without a demand. So

681
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:06,719
Speaker 2: the cabalter. They come from every walk of Dutch life.

682
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:09,439
Speaker 2: There's Catholics, Protestants, Jews who grew up hiding in the war.

683
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 2: There's Dutch, Indian, Indonesian and African born. Dutch people were

684
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:16,359
Speaker 2: all part of it. They're into provocative, playful direct action.

685
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 2: One of my favorite things in the world. One of

686
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 2: my favorite Dutch inventions is the bock feats, which is

687
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 2: a pickup truck bicycle and it it's like there's bock

688
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 2: feats in America where it's like a little box on

689
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:30,239
Speaker 2: the bike. The ones in the the ones in Amsterdam

690
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:32,719
Speaker 2: are like a pickup truck bed on the front of

691
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 2: a bicycle. And it works because the Netherlands is completely.

692
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 3: Flat, right, there's no hills under the sea.

693
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like the annoying part of driving about riding a

694
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,239
Speaker 2: box feats is getting it up the hill of the

695
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 2: when you go over a canal. You know, that's like

696
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 2: the one you gotta get ready. But other than that,

697
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 2: you can move a ton of stuff around. And so

698
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 2: they take their bock feats and they stage protests to

699
00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 2: block cars from entering the city. They just they're like, nope,

700
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 2: it's car free now, we told you it would be.

701
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:07,839
Speaker 2: They tear up the cobblestones and plant trees in major intersections.

702
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:11,400
Speaker 2: They have big takeovers of streets by parents and children,

703
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:15,279
Speaker 2: being like, no, we're doing a play street. Fuck you.

704
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 2: They illegally paint new pedestrian crosswalks, and the cities at

705
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 2: war with them. Right They'll like, they'll paint a new

706
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 2: pedestrian crosswalk and then the city will paint over it.

707
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 2: But then like it rained really hard and it washed

708
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 2: away the paint that covered up the crosswalk, and the

709
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:29,759
Speaker 2: crosswalk came back.

710
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 3: How this is also doable right now? You could go

711
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:34,279
Speaker 3: paint a grilla crosswalk.

712
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 2: You absolutely could.

713
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 3: I would never advocate illegal activity, no.

714
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:40,719
Speaker 2: Absolutely not, But if people wanted to do it, I

715
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 2: would support their bail fund. They got some streets permanently

716
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 2: closed to cars, streets that are pedestrian only today. That's incredible.

717
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,359
Speaker 2: Decades later, Yeah, they shaped Amsterdam, and in some ways,

718
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:54,400
Speaker 2: I mean, in some ways they shaped it for capitalism, right,

719
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:56,840
Speaker 2: Those capestrian only streets are great shopping streets.

720
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 3: I'm thinking about, Like, what little I know about it

721
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 3: Amsterdam as a physical place is that it does have

722
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 3: so many of these like pedestrian malls and everyone's riding

723
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 3: a bike, and it sounds like they did.

724
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 2: That it's because of the nomes. They also went to

725
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:15,400
Speaker 2: war with the city over playground safety. We're gonna get

726
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 2: into this is the most wholesome group of people I've

727
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:19,720
Speaker 2: ever covered on the show, and I was crying reading

728
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 2: about them earlier. They go around and illegally put rubber

729
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 2: tiles under playground equipment so that kids don't get hurt

730
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:31,279
Speaker 2: when they fall. City workers would come and rip it

731
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 2: up and replace it with cobblestone, so the cabouchers would

732
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 2: just go out and do it again, over and over

733
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 2: again until they won. Sadly, they won because a little

734
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,320
Speaker 2: girl fell on the stones and died. Oh my god,

735
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,320
Speaker 2: it seems like a predictable outcome when you're putting it

736
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 2: entirely predictable play plates. Yeah. And then, most wholesome of all,

737
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 2: they set up a department of Welfare, which existed to

738
00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 2: look after lonely old people. Oh this was coordinated. It

739
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:02,840
Speaker 2: wasn't just like twenty year olds to be like, we

740
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 2: know what old people want. There was a sixty year

741
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 2: old disabled cabouter who worked together with a bunch of

742
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 2: nuns figuring out what old people needed. And then the

743
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 2: anarchists came in and took care of it. It was

744
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:18,240
Speaker 2: highly organized. It involved four hundred volunteers. It was divided

745
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:22,280
Speaker 2: up by city district, and it like the city didn't

746
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 2: have a good system to look after the elderly at

747
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,360
Speaker 2: this point, and a lot of the way that the

748
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 2: city does it currently comes from this. And so the

749
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:36,320
Speaker 2: elderly are lonely, right, So young log hair hippies would

750
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 2: come read them the Bible as they went to sleep

751
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 2: if that's what they wanted, or they would take they

752
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,279
Speaker 2: would do the grocery shopping, or they would take out

753
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,440
Speaker 2: the trash. And around this time is when you get

754
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 2: the loud and fierce atheist contingent that kept trying to

755
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:53,280
Speaker 2: make the Orange Free State like take a specific atheistic line.

756
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 2: But people wouldn't go for it, not because they were Christians,

757
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 2: but because they weren't. They were like, no, people can

758
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:00,120
Speaker 2: do what they want about religion is the best I

759
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 2: can understand, and then the Department of Welfare staffed a

760
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 2: phone line for lonely old people.

761
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:09,880
Speaker 3: The cost so sweet.

762
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:13,280
Speaker 2: I know, it literally had me crying reading about this, honestly.

763
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:15,719
Speaker 3: Like this, I mean, you know, some of these other

764
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 3: social programs there's like sort of a legitimate capitalistic function

765
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 3: to them. You could see how that could be appropriated

766
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:24,160
Speaker 3: and would serve in other systems. But this is just nice.

767
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 2: This is just nice. Yeah, exactly. They perceived themselves as

768
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 2: a society outside they exist the shadow world, and in

769
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:36,400
Speaker 2: the shadow world people are nice to each other and

770
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:38,759
Speaker 2: take care of each other. So they crazy to the

771
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 2: infrastructure to do it. Yeah, and it helped bridge this

772
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 2: generation gap that was widening. When they first set this up.

773
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:49,759
Speaker 2: No one would go to them because they were like,

774
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:53,799
Speaker 2: we don't want those workshy long hairs. You know.

775
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 3: It's I guess in what is in nineteen seventy So

776
00:39:56,040 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 3: the elderly were young adults during the war, so they

777
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 3: do have very different sort of life experiences.

778
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally overall, you're talking about very conservative group of people,

779
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 2: you know, And yeah, they did all this crazy shit.

780
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 2: They also at one point raided a soldier's barracks to

781
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 2: pass out leaflets against the military and trying to get

782
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:18,879
Speaker 2: people to quit. I think there was mandatory conscription until

783
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy two, but I'm not certain. I've read a

784
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:22,439
Speaker 2: bunch of different stuff about this.

785
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:23,840
Speaker 3: That sounds like something a king would do.

786
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. But what they ended up doing most of

787
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:33,760
Speaker 2: them would refuse service or there wasn't a mandatory recruitment

788
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:35,840
Speaker 2: during this exact moment, I'm not sure, but overall the

789
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 2: hippies in general would refuse service. Some of them joined

790
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:43,960
Speaker 2: the military specifically to start anti militarism groups among the soldiers, just.

791
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 3: To get weird in the barracks.

792
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:45,319
Speaker 2: Yeah.

793
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, if I didn't consider myself a citizen

794
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 3: of the state, I would not allow myself to be conscripted.

795
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that's totally true. Lord, And actually that carries

796
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 2: across Oh my god, I'm thinking about how like some

797
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 2: of my friends, whenever squad would get caught, like with

798
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:04,439
Speaker 2: an out bike light or something and cops would stop them,

799
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 2: sometimes the squads would just be like, we're not showing

800
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 2: you id We're we're citizens of the world, We're not

801
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 2: citizens of the Dutch.

802
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:12,840
Speaker 3: I'm not driving them traveling.

803
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:17,760
Speaker 2: And like I had I knew two people who were legal.

804
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 2: They weren't Dutch, but they were legal. They were European

805
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:23,799
Speaker 2: citizens that were allowed in the Netherlands. They spent a

806
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 2: month in foreign attention rather than show their ID because

807
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:30,840
Speaker 2: they were like, no, the Dutch state has no control

808
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 2: over me.

809
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 3: That's a commitment to the bit that I could not uphold.

810
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,360
Speaker 2: I know, but the only the only bit I'm committed

811
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 2: to is awkward ad transitions like this one.

812
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:52,399
Speaker 1: And we're back.

813
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 2: No, I absolutely wouldn't have. I felt bad because people

814
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 2: are like squatters don't carry ID, and I'm like, I'm

815
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:01,359
Speaker 2: not a European citizen. I'm carrying for me to spend

816
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 2: a month in jail over that. I had already been

817
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 2: to foreign attention at that point because of like a

818
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 2: the squaders tried to protect. Some Nazis had burned down

819
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 2: a mosque and then the people who in Rotterdam and

820
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:16,240
Speaker 2: so folks from the mosque were rebuilding, and the Nazis

821
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 2: were like, We're going to come beat you up and

822
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:20,279
Speaker 2: burn it down again. So all the anti fascists and

823
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 2: the Netherlands. I am one of the few people who

824
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 2: can say I have been bussed as an Antifa member

825
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:31,360
Speaker 2: bust out to Rotterdam. It was officially branded Antifa action,

826
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:33,239
Speaker 2: and I got on a bus and I went over

827
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:36,840
Speaker 2: to Rotterdam to fucking fight Nazis who were trying to

828
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 2: burn down a mosque. And I would fucking do it again.

829
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 3: That's beautiful.

830
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 2: I didn't get a chance to. We all got arrested.

831
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:44,759
Speaker 2: And also I suck at fighting, but whatever, but.

832
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 3: You were willing to try, and I think that's the

833
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:47,279
Speaker 3: spirit of it.

834
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 2: Yeah. I went to Foreign Attention and then I was like,

835
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 2: this sucks. I'm carrying my ID from now on. Anyway,

836
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 2: So the cabouncers, some of them, tried to write a

837
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 2: constitution and brought it to the Assembly, but people like,

838
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 2: we're good, we don't want one of those. And they

839
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:08,759
Speaker 2: set out letters to heads of state asking for audiences

840
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:10,840
Speaker 2: so they could discuss this new country in Amsterdam.

841
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 3: Incredible, only one world leader obliged, who took the meeting.

842
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:22,320
Speaker 3: I want you to guess, Okay, okay, it's just the seventies.

843
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 3: It's really funny, Like I wanted to be the president

844
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:28,359
Speaker 3: of Ireland, but I'm just thinking of the cut little

845
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 3: guy that's the president of Ireland now, because he kind

846
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 3: of like reminds me of home.

847
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 2: Oh totally uh huh, but I don't know the pope.

848
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:39,719
Speaker 3: Fuck, yes, yes, yes, yes.

849
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 2: Pope Paul the sixth received a caboucher delegation kindly for

850
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:47,360
Speaker 2: about fifteen minutes, and basically it was like, I like

851
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 2: what you all have to say about saving the environment

852
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 2: and dressing housing shortages, but this anarchism thing is no good,

853
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:53,719
Speaker 2: and you're in way too much of a hurry to

854
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 2: save the world. The Pope that he received them like

855
00:43:56,480 --> 00:44:00,760
Speaker 2: in Vatican City. Yes, However, there there is a chance

856
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:03,480
Speaker 2: that this is a lie. Oh don't tell me. It

857
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 2: was covered by several newspapers.

858
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 1: Are you saying this is pope paganda?

859
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:15,360
Speaker 2: Sorry, it might have been a caboucher prank to convince

860
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:17,880
Speaker 2: the press that this had happened.

861
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 3: But I mean that does sound like them, I know,

862
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 3: but I.

863
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:23,480
Speaker 2: Kind of feel like if they had done it as

864
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 2: a prank, they would have been a little bit like,

865
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:27,399
Speaker 2: that's what the Pope would have told them. I think,

866
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 2: very progressive pope, except about bodily and reproductive autonomy, in

867
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 2: which he was not very progressive self. Yeah, I love that.

868
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:37,880
Speaker 3: I want to find more and more evidence of this

869
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:39,759
Speaker 3: meeting that's so special to me.

870
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:42,920
Speaker 2: I know, I know all of the evidence that's available

871
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 2: in English that I'm aware of is in clearly Cabouter. However,

872
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 2: there is a larger The book was originally like I

873
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 2: think thousands of pages, and then was like the largest

874
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:55,680
Speaker 2: social leftist social history slash anarchist archive in the world

875
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:57,680
Speaker 2: is an Amsterdam. It's called the Institute for Social History,

876
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 2: and that's where the archives of the Cabalter movement that

877
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 2: con put together is. Anyway, the Cabouter started a new

878
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 2: postal service cheaper than the national one, and they paid

879
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 2: their postal workers. If you were at a Cabouter shop,

880
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:14,480
Speaker 2: you could grab the envelopes that are addressed to places

881
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:16,600
Speaker 2: along your route home and deliver them and I think

882
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:20,440
Speaker 2: get paid for that. Oh and Dutch hippies mostly had

883
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:22,920
Speaker 2: the standard hippie outfits, right, they had like mini skirts

884
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 2: and tight turtlenecks and bell bottoms and all that shit.

885
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:28,880
Speaker 2: But the main Dutch edition was that they sometimes the

886
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:33,279
Speaker 2: hippies wore the capes that the postal workers wore. So

887
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:34,600
Speaker 2: this makes it extra funny.

888
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 3: I mean, a cape is just such an accessory. I

889
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:42,440
Speaker 3: mean that there's so much flair. Absolutely, they believed in

890
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:44,880
Speaker 3: free love, but they were also fine with marriage, and

891
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:47,640
Speaker 3: they held elaborate and strange public marriage ceremonies for the

892
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:49,759
Speaker 3: cabouchers who wanted to commit their love to each other.

893
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:52,799
Speaker 3: I think that the marriages were offered on like three

894
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:54,760
Speaker 3: year terms that you had to like go get renewed.

895
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 3: But I'm not one hundred percent certain about that. I

896
00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 3: respect that, I know, I just evaluate as you go. Oh,

897
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:00,440
Speaker 3: you know.

898
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:04,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, And there was a separate and autonomous group woman

899
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:07,440
Speaker 2: power that allied themselves with the Free State. They also

900
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:10,680
Speaker 2: opened five organic food stores, meant to compete with the

901
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:13,160
Speaker 2: overpriced health food stores that it existed before them. They

902
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:15,600
Speaker 2: weren't the first health food store movement that came from

903
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 2: the nineteen twenties, but those ones were like overpriced and

904
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 2: bougie the way that all health food stores go. I

905
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 2: think some of these caboucher shops are still around today,

906
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 2: but I think that at least they were around at

907
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:28,480
Speaker 2: the time of the book was written. I think that

908
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:30,200
Speaker 2: they kind of got.

909
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:32,959
Speaker 3: Expensive capitalism creeps in. Yeah.

910
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:35,960
Speaker 2: They also opened a biodynamic restaurant and they had a

911
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:38,719
Speaker 2: free swap meet every week. Their whole thing was that

912
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 2: they believed in an economy where like surplus is just

913
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:47,480
Speaker 2: freely exchanged between people. They partnered up with youth social

914
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 2: service groups. They just fucking did everything. They partnered up

915
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:53,839
Speaker 2: with youth social service groups to provide part time work

916
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 2: for the kinds of troubled youth who struggled to find work.

917
00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:58,840
Speaker 2: They were involved in labor actions, and they named at

918
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 2: least one of their labor actions after Lord of the Rings,

919
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:04,000
Speaker 2: which makes my fucking heart sing. They named one of

920
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 2: their labor actions the Black Writer, where they occupied an

921
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:10,640
Speaker 2: existing storefront. There was like this chain store that was

922
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:12,279
Speaker 2: about to go out of business and lay off twenty

923
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 2: five hundred workers. But they had been like treating their

924
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 2: workers like shit the entire time, and so they occupied

925
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:21,360
Speaker 2: this store. The workers did get fired, but the publicity

926
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 2: of the stunt led to government inspection of that company,

927
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:26,239
Speaker 2: who found all kinds of wrongdoing, and in the end,

928
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:29,760
Speaker 2: these hippies secured pensions for twenty five hundred people.

929
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:30,880
Speaker 3: Oh my god.

930
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:34,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like that alone is like like what a good

931
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:36,320
Speaker 2: way to spend your fucking afternoon.

932
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:39,680
Speaker 3: Like the gnomes with the Lord of the Rings mission

933
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:41,880
Speaker 3: like got twenty five hundred people a pension.

934
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:44,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, like you can't.

935
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:44,480
Speaker 3: Laugh at that.

936
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:48,759
Speaker 2: No, no notes, I'm into it earnestly. I am into

937
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 2: them as gnomes. I mean I am in a band

938
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:53,239
Speaker 2: called feminog School. I clearly am fine with the Lord

939
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:56,640
Speaker 2: of the Rings references. Every Thursday for over a year

940
00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:58,840
Speaker 2: they held people's assemblies and these were open to the

941
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:02,560
Speaker 2: public and a camera crew, which has some upsides and downsides.

942
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:05,440
Speaker 2: They had a different moderator every week to avoid people

943
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:09,600
Speaker 2: taking power, and the twelve different people's departments which anyone

944
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:12,880
Speaker 2: could sign up for, would report back at these Sometimes

945
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:15,439
Speaker 2: these meetings were kind of a shit show, especially once

946
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 2: they got famous and they had a lot of looker ons.

947
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 2: They were all over the press. I mentioned there was

948
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:23,719
Speaker 2: like two thousand articles about them. But the press picked

949
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 2: that anarchist council member Rule Vondn as the leader and

950
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:31,399
Speaker 2: put him on air whenever they could. And this did

951
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:35,239
Speaker 2: not make anyone happy. It might have made it might

952
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:38,480
Speaker 2: have made real happy, but it's like, it's hard to know,

953
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:43,239
Speaker 2: you know. At one point a wax museum made a

954
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:46,240
Speaker 2: statue of him without his permission. Well that's so creepy,

955
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:49,440
Speaker 2: And it was him dressed as a gnome with a

956
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:51,320
Speaker 2: little krapotkin doll on his lap.

957
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:53,879
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm coming back around on and I love it.

958
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:56,520
Speaker 2: I know he wrote an angry letter asking them to

959
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:59,800
Speaker 2: destroy it. The museum instead put a sign on his

960
00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 2: life likeness that said I desire to live an anarchist life.

961
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:04,720
Speaker 3: I bet that slaps harder and Dutch.

962
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:09,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. Later he renounces his anarchism and gets into mainstream

963
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:12,960
Speaker 2: politics like not right wing politics like Green Party. But

964
00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:14,759
Speaker 2: I suspect the people who thought he was looking out

965
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:18,440
Speaker 2: for his own fame were like onto something, or he

966
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 2: drove them away with all their petty bickering. Who fucking knows.

967
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:26,719
Speaker 2: He wrote about the Kboucher strategy. So we fight the

968
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:29,719
Speaker 2: existing order with both hands. With the left hand, we

969
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:32,440
Speaker 2: generate the new society and make people understand how we

970
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:35,600
Speaker 2: want to do that. With the right hand, we work

971
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:38,320
Speaker 2: on reforming the old society to the extent that effort

972
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 2: offers prospects for further democratization of the old society in

973
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:45,200
Speaker 2: the direction of the new one. Both hands are directed

974
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 2: by one head, one way of thinking. On the day

975
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:51,319
Speaker 2: of the permanent revolution, the old and new societies will

976
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 2: fuse together.

977
00:49:54,640 --> 00:50:00,279
Speaker 3: I'm known pilled. That's perfect. That's perfect, right, It's it

978
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:03,960
Speaker 3: bridges the gap, you know, it instantly shuts down the

979
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:05,560
Speaker 3: argument of like, well, you know, if you're running on

980
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:09,080
Speaker 3: for city council, then you're assimilating your your conceding to

981
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:11,480
Speaker 3: the to the system. You can't you can't change it

982
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:13,759
Speaker 3: from the inside. We can do both, and we are

983
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:14,919
Speaker 3: doing both, right.

984
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:17,719
Speaker 2: I think that it is an honest appraisal to say

985
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 2: that no one knows what tactics work, and shutting down

986
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 2: a tactic ideologically is not as interesting as shutting I mean, morally,

987
00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:30,000
Speaker 2: you can shut down tactics. Morally you can be like

988
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:32,239
Speaker 2: it's not moral to take power over other people and

989
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:34,319
Speaker 2: tell everyone what to do. That's how I feel, right.

990
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:37,960
Speaker 2: But like to say, yeah, you can't use the system

991
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:39,200
Speaker 2: to change the system, it's like.

992
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:39,839
Speaker 3: But they did it.

993
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:42,320
Speaker 2: Yeah. The environmental movement has been a really good example,

994
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:44,839
Speaker 2: like the you know, Earth First has always been like, oh,

995
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:46,960
Speaker 2: every tool in the toolbox, and that includes that they

996
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:49,600
Speaker 2: call it like paper wrenching instead of monkey wrenching, where

997
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 2: you like file lawsuits and you use the society, and like, yeah, that's.

998
00:50:57,440 --> 00:50:59,799
Speaker 3: I mean, they did it. You can't really argue, you know,

999
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:01,400
Speaker 3: they they had something.

1000
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:05,320
Speaker 2: I know, it does fall apart, and everyone wants to

1001
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:08,560
Speaker 2: argue about why it fell apart. All of the late

1002
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:13,440
Speaker 2: sixties early seventies social movements fell apart, all of them

1003
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:15,719
Speaker 2: that I've read about, you know, and all of them

1004
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:19,120
Speaker 2: achieved various things along the way through different tactics, and

1005
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:23,480
Speaker 2: absolutely the cabouter achieved an awful lot. In the nineteen

1006
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:29,680
Speaker 2: seventy elections. The biggest winner was people not voting. Abstention

1007
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:32,360
Speaker 2: went up from eleven percent in the previous election to

1008
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:36,239
Speaker 2: forty percent in that particular election, because basically people are like,

1009
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:40,920
Speaker 2: we fucking hate the old world. The Cabouter movement got

1010
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:43,319
Speaker 2: thirty six thousand votes in Amsterdam alone, and it won

1011
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:46,959
Speaker 2: five seats. Like I was saying, this puts the Cabouters

1012
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:50,799
Speaker 2: as the fourth biggest party overall in city politics. They

1013
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 2: were the biggest party in seven different neighborhoods, all ones

1014
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:57,520
Speaker 2: where the like fuck voting idea was popular, and so

1015
00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 2: basically it was like it's like this or they're like,

1016
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:05,759
Speaker 2: will either take this or nothing? You know. One of

1017
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:08,279
Speaker 2: the candidates who won was a sixteen year old. He

1018
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 2: was a protest candidate who was not allowed to take

1019
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:12,799
Speaker 2: office because you had to be at least I think

1020
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:14,840
Speaker 2: either eighteen or maybe in twenty three to take office.

1021
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:17,960
Speaker 3: They're really taking this as a bit thing pretty far,

1022
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:18,680
Speaker 3: I know.

1023
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:20,719
Speaker 2: But then they actually fell into a whole bunch of

1024
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:25,320
Speaker 2: fighting about The people who won and were taking office

1025
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:27,920
Speaker 2: were like, Okay, great, the sixteen year old won, Well,

1026
00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:31,399
Speaker 2: obviously he can't take the seat, so we'll put someone

1027
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:34,239
Speaker 2: else in, whereas the like a little bit the more

1028
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:38,719
Speaker 2: like pure direct action type folks were like, no, you

1029
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:41,600
Speaker 2: need to put a tape recorder on his seat and

1030
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:44,480
Speaker 2: as a as a sort of permanent protest, you know,

1031
00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:47,960
Speaker 2: or you can play things out and stuff. I honestly

1032
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:51,600
Speaker 2: see both sides of that debate. Personally. As a political party,

1033
00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:56,280
Speaker 2: they offered five positions. The radical democratization of businesses, schools,

1034
00:52:56,280 --> 00:53:01,680
Speaker 2: and government, transparency and decentralization in city administration, fixing the environment,

1035
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:05,160
Speaker 2: especially by going car free in the city, socialized housing,

1036
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:08,440
Speaker 2: and returning the city center to a residential rather than

1037
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:09,640
Speaker 2: commercial focus.

1038
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 3: Wow, that's my political platform.

1039
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:14,799
Speaker 2: I'm not surprised, and that's why I love that. I

1040
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:19,319
Speaker 2: love that. The split between the parliamentary cabouder and the

1041
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:22,719
Speaker 2: rank and file cabouder continued to grow. Some of the

1042
00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:27,600
Speaker 2: magazines were mocking their celebrity council member room, and then it,

1043
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:33,240
Speaker 2: honestly just all started to lose traction. Socially, turnout starts

1044
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:36,520
Speaker 2: to drop at the general assemblies. Some people felt that

1045
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:38,760
Speaker 2: they weren't being serious enough, so they tried to become

1046
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:45,120
Speaker 2: more organized. This dropped turnout further. Everyone blamed everyone else

1047
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:49,640
Speaker 2: for it. It doesn't help that in nineteen seventy an

1048
00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:52,919
Speaker 2: entire graduating class of the police department opted to put

1049
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:55,680
Speaker 2: on hippie clothes and infiltrate the cabouters.

1050
00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:58,480
Speaker 3: They did cointel pro to my nomes.

1051
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 2: They did, and it's it's hard to know about how

1052
00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 2: much of the infighting that we're talking about comes from what.

1053
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:09,200
Speaker 2: It also doesn't help that Rue at this point wants

1054
00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:12,080
Speaker 2: to run for national office, and that was like people

1055
00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:15,439
Speaker 2: were like those britches, yeah, and people were like, look,

1056
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:18,000
Speaker 2: we're fine with city government. That was controversial, but we

1057
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:21,279
Speaker 2: accepted it, some of us. But this is too much.

1058
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:23,960
Speaker 3: And that was part of the original philosophy, right, was

1059
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:26,560
Speaker 3: that you can make these sort of neighborhood council, city

1060
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:29,759
Speaker 3: council level changes, right, but you get bigger than that.

1061
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:31,880
Speaker 3: We're not doing it. No mannerchism anymore, Bud.

1062
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:34,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, at that point it is non progressivism, which is

1063
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:40,000
Speaker 2: where he's going to turn to, well, nomeless progressivism. And

1064
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:42,320
Speaker 2: so the Orange Free State and the Cabouchers are losing

1065
00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:46,640
Speaker 2: their steam from infighting and conflict about strategy and from

1066
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:48,600
Speaker 2: just how hard it is to build a better world

1067
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 2: in the shell of the old while the old world

1068
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:54,720
Speaker 2: still operates. In March nineteen seventy one, the last People's

1069
00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:57,360
Speaker 2: Assembly was held, and then the Cabouters as a general

1070
00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:02,880
Speaker 2: organization ceased to exist, but they still held municipal seats

1071
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:05,919
Speaker 2: eleven of them total, right, five in Amsterdam and six

1072
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:11,160
Speaker 2: across the country. By nineteen seventy three, ruvon Dahn renounces

1073
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:14,320
Speaker 2: his anarchism like formally is like, that's just not me anymore,

1074
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:17,680
Speaker 2: right and joins the Progressive Party, saying that a collection

1075
00:55:17,719 --> 00:55:20,520
Speaker 2: of action groups can't make a change, But they did,

1076
00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:23,640
Speaker 2: I know, and that he actually, at least in his

1077
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:26,360
Speaker 2: immediate future, I didn't follow his career. Later, in his

1078
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:28,279
Speaker 2: like immediate future in the Progressive Party, he gets way

1079
00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:32,520
Speaker 2: less done, no doubt, and later he's part of joining

1080
00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:35,000
Speaker 2: the Green Party. And I can't speak to their successes

1081
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:37,360
Speaker 2: because I didn't read about them, but yeah, he's like,

1082
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:40,240
Speaker 2: I'm excited to join a party that actually exercises power,

1083
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:42,319
Speaker 2: is the way he put it. And he had to

1084
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:44,799
Speaker 2: step down out of his cabowder seat so he was

1085
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:46,799
Speaker 2: no longer a city council member for a little while.

1086
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:49,040
Speaker 2: But then he won a seat with a Progressive Party

1087
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:51,640
Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy four, and the Progressive Party absolutely like

1088
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:54,640
Speaker 2: put his name in big letters, being like fuck you,

1089
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:56,560
Speaker 2: we got we got him, you know.

1090
00:55:57,040 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 3: But then he did nothing with him. I know, that's shameful.

1091
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:02,759
Speaker 2: When he became an Alderman, he refused to take a

1092
00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:05,919
Speaker 2: free official car but accepted a free official bike, and

1093
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:08,880
Speaker 2: like he didn't sell out and become right wing or whatever.

1094
00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 2: He became a Green Party guy. And to quote author

1095
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:17,440
Speaker 2: Kohne Tasman quote, the Kabouder fraction, which I think is

1096
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:19,399
Speaker 2: the word for the percentage of them that are the

1097
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:22,440
Speaker 2: own city council may have expended a lot of his

1098
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:24,759
Speaker 2: energy and quarrels, but it will probably go down in

1099
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:27,439
Speaker 2: history as one of the most productive groups to ever

1100
00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:30,840
Speaker 2: sit on the Amsterdam Municipal Council. There is unlikely to

1101
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:34,360
Speaker 2: ever be another council fraction of comparable size that submits

1102
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:37,440
Speaker 2: so many memoranda, motions and written in oral questions over

1103
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:41,960
Speaker 2: a similar timeframe. They fundamentally changed the culture of the

1104
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:45,280
Speaker 2: city council. It used to be that individual council members

1105
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:50,520
Speaker 2: like didn't not couldn't, but didn't submit their own memoranda. Instead,

1106
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:53,480
Speaker 2: they like waited for like their fraction leaders to approve

1107
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:57,520
Speaker 2: of it, you know. And it changed that Now individual

1108
00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:03,520
Speaker 2: municipal council members do. And then in May nineteen seventy four,

1109
00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:08,040
Speaker 2: the cabatter movements lost steam. The Caboaters don't gain any

1110
00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:12,799
Speaker 2: seats on the next election. The Cobatter Party is no more.

1111
00:57:13,719 --> 00:57:17,240
Speaker 2: Their ideas live on in rubber tiles, under playgrounds, in

1112
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:20,360
Speaker 2: the squatter movement, in the bike lanes, enclosed streets, in

1113
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:23,320
Speaker 2: the organic food stores. Some of their attempts to bring

1114
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:25,720
Speaker 2: more power into neighborhoods have been permanent in the city,

1115
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:28,720
Speaker 2: particularly in how neighborhoods centers for the elderly are set up.

1116
00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:34,280
Speaker 2: And once again, the actions they put into place, many

1117
00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:37,240
Speaker 2: of them kept going with them. They kept pushing for

1118
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:40,200
Speaker 2: the white car system of electric cars. By nineteen seventy six,

1119
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:43,320
Speaker 2: there were five electric stations for these cars with about

1120
00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:47,160
Speaker 2: twenty five hundred people subscribed to the service. It became

1121
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:51,480
Speaker 2: like a token system, kind of a socialized version of

1122
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:55,760
Speaker 2: rent a car. You know, these never took off. The

1123
00:57:55,840 --> 00:57:58,240
Speaker 2: public will and the technology weren't there. They had to

1124
00:57:58,240 --> 00:58:01,920
Speaker 2: build like entire power states for each car. Basically, not

1125
00:58:01,960 --> 00:58:03,720
Speaker 2: for each car, but anywhere you want to have cars,

1126
00:58:03,720 --> 00:58:05,520
Speaker 2: you have to build a huge thing in order.

1127
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:07,880
Speaker 3: An infrastructure project as hard to do as a bit.

1128
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:14,000
Speaker 2: Right, totally, But yeah, them's the Cabouders. They did more

1129
00:58:14,040 --> 00:58:16,120
Speaker 2: than I thought when I first started reading about them,

1130
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:18,800
Speaker 2: And I'm fucking I'm obsessed.

1131
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:22,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just I'm going to be thinking about this

1132
00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:27,840
Speaker 3: for days. Just like there's something so easily translatable about this, right,

1133
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:30,160
Speaker 3: Like we don't we don't have to have like a

1134
00:58:30,200 --> 00:58:34,960
Speaker 3: weekly black face party in town square or anything. But like, yeah,

1135
00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:37,840
Speaker 3: but the idea that like, no, you don't, You don't

1136
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:40,280
Speaker 3: have to wait around for everyone to be ready for

1137
00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:41,919
Speaker 3: the good change that you want to make. You could

1138
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:45,040
Speaker 3: just do it. You can just do it totally. Just

1139
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:48,040
Speaker 3: leave a bunch of bikes outside. Yeah, just help some

1140
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:50,800
Speaker 3: old people get organized with your pals.

1141
00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:54,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it prefigures so much of the modern

1142
00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:56,480
Speaker 2: mutual Aid movement, which is one of the things that

1143
00:58:56,520 --> 00:58:59,120
Speaker 2: I'm proudest of of, like the legacy of anarchism and

1144
00:58:59,840 --> 00:59:03,280
Speaker 2: just the idea that, like, we can take direct action

1145
00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:06,120
Speaker 2: and not just against the bad things, although I'm very

1146
00:59:06,160 --> 00:59:08,360
Speaker 2: excited when people do that, but we can take direct

1147
00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:10,280
Speaker 2: action about the things that are missing in our lives

1148
00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:12,720
Speaker 2: and the people the lives of people around us, you know.

1149
00:59:13,320 --> 00:59:16,160
Speaker 3: And I'd love that they you know. I guess it's

1150
00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:19,080
Speaker 3: controversial for anarchists to talk about grabbing a lever of power,

1151
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:20,920
Speaker 3: but I think that the levers of power that exist

1152
00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:24,800
Speaker 3: at the neighborhood and the council level are small enough

1153
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:27,440
Speaker 3: for us to reach and grab, and that's where the

1154
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:30,120
Speaker 3: real change make you. That's for the real changes can

1155
00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:31,960
Speaker 3: be made for your neighbors. Like in your neighborhood, you

1156
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:34,120
Speaker 3: can make make some real meaningful change.

1157
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:35,800
Speaker 2: I think it was the combo of the two.

1158
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:37,680
Speaker 3: I think, yeah, absolutely, you know, they went out and

1159
00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:40,160
Speaker 3: they did it with and without permission, but you know,

1160
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:44,360
Speaker 3: the left hand and the right hand together. Yeah, wow,

1161
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:46,800
Speaker 3: someone should run for their city council as an home.

1162
00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:53,160
Speaker 2: I've known anarchists on city councils before, actually, and they

1163
00:59:53,240 --> 00:59:55,520
Speaker 2: usually come out of more of this sort of activist

1164
00:59:55,560 --> 00:59:56,840
Speaker 2: side of it. You know. I know a lot of

1165
00:59:56,920 --> 01:00:00,440
Speaker 2: environmental activists who are anarchists, who are like, well, I'm

1166
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:03,560
Speaker 2: running for city council because I'm trying to fix this

1167
01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:07,720
Speaker 2: thing in my city, you know. And it's like contentious,

1168
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:10,360
Speaker 2: but I really like the idea that we should be

1169
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:14,240
Speaker 2: ideologically motivated, not ideologically controlled or whatever the way they've

1170
01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:15,680
Speaker 2: phrased it is. That's better than that.

1171
01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:19,440
Speaker 3: Because it can be done. Yeah, can be done.

1172
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:22,800
Speaker 2: Well, I think.

1173
01:00:22,640 --> 01:00:26,280
Speaker 3: The plug I'm still thinking about these gnomes. No, it's okay,

1174
01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:31,240
Speaker 3: I know, I'm just I'm so happy about this. I'm

1175
01:00:31,240 --> 01:00:35,040
Speaker 3: so inspired by the Gnomes. Yeah plugs. Right now, I

1176
01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:37,920
Speaker 3: am guest hosting on It could happen here, so you

1177
01:00:38,120 --> 01:00:40,480
Speaker 3: probably still tune in and catch some of those bad boys.

1178
01:00:41,200 --> 01:00:44,560
Speaker 3: I am tweeting about my non anarchist city council on

1179
01:00:44,640 --> 01:00:48,360
Speaker 3: Twitter at socialist dog Mom, and I am working on

1180
01:00:48,440 --> 01:00:51,800
Speaker 3: getting more regular at my newsletter. It's a ghost newsletter.

1181
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:54,520
Speaker 3: It's like Substack, but there's less fascists there. It's called

1182
01:00:54,560 --> 01:00:58,560
Speaker 3: The Devil's Advocates. It's about what happens when white supremacist

1183
01:00:58,600 --> 01:01:01,320
Speaker 3: violence interacts with the us quo system. Yeah, that's it

1184
01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:01,560
Speaker 3: for me.

1185
01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:06,280
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, I have a substack on the Ghost but

1186
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:11,120
Speaker 2: it has more nazis called substack and if you look

1187
01:01:11,280 --> 01:01:17,000
Speaker 2: Marco Kiljoy substack you'll find it. I write about about

1188
01:01:17,040 --> 01:01:18,800
Speaker 2: half of the posts are a little bit more personal,

1189
01:01:19,080 --> 01:01:21,520
Speaker 2: like memoir and talking about my reflections about the things

1190
01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:23,680
Speaker 2: that I read and you know, in history and things

1191
01:01:23,720 --> 01:01:26,080
Speaker 2: like that. And the other ones are essays and me

1192
01:01:26,320 --> 01:01:28,280
Speaker 2: talking about what can be done. And I mean, I

1193
01:01:28,280 --> 01:01:30,400
Speaker 2: don't know what to do, but you know, the best

1194
01:01:30,520 --> 01:01:33,080
Speaker 2: as I understand things is what I write there. And

1195
01:01:33,240 --> 01:01:38,680
Speaker 2: that half is free. And check out more stuff from

1196
01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:41,040
Speaker 2: cool Zone Media. There's a bunch of new things coming

1197
01:01:41,080 --> 01:01:45,400
Speaker 2: this year. And I'm I keep saying this, but I

1198
01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:47,840
Speaker 2: just I don't know. I listened to non Cool Zone

1199
01:01:47,840 --> 01:01:51,760
Speaker 2: Media podcast too. That's not as good, yeah, because they're

1200
01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:54,439
Speaker 2: not run by Sophie Sophie anything.

1201
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:59,240
Speaker 1: The plug mostly just like you nailed the Cool Zone plugs,

1202
01:01:59,240 --> 01:02:01,040
Speaker 1: I'm not going to do another. And just that, like

1203
01:02:01,120 --> 01:02:03,560
Speaker 1: I've received a decent amount of messages and just so

1204
01:02:03,640 --> 01:02:06,800
Speaker 1: everyone is aware, Google the Google podcast app is going away,

1205
01:02:07,960 --> 01:02:11,760
Speaker 1: like wha, Like it's going bye bye. I think, uh,

1206
01:02:12,520 --> 01:02:15,800
Speaker 1: the date for that is April second, and then you

1207
01:02:15,800 --> 01:02:20,160
Speaker 1: won't be able to export or migrate your shows from

1208
01:02:20,200 --> 01:02:23,520
Speaker 1: the Google podcast app to your new app after June,

1209
01:02:24,120 --> 01:02:25,120
Speaker 1: so if you use.

1210
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:34,080
Speaker 2: That app, stop, Yay the internet sucks now, all right,

1211
01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:35,480
Speaker 2: See you all next Monday.

1212
01:02:35,920 --> 01:02:38,200
Speaker 3: Get out there and be a gnome nme.

1213
01:02:43,760 --> 01:02:46,280
Speaker 1: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

1214
01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:49,400
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts and cool Zone Media,

1215
01:02:49,560 --> 01:02:52,840
Speaker 1: visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com or check us out

1216
01:02:52,920 --> 01:02:56,280
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

1217
01:02:56,320 --> 01:02:57,120
Speaker 1: your podcasts.