1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:08,360 Speaker 1: M hey everyone and welcome. It could happen here. I'm 2 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: Andrew the YouTube channel andrewism. I would like to borrow 3 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: some of your time today or tonight, whenever you're listening 4 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 1: to talk about movements, the fact that humans move around 5 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:25,639 Speaker 1: and the most Indian restrictions on it in our modern world. Today, 6 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: I'm joined by my co hosts. Hello Garrison here, Hi, 7 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:36,479 Speaker 1: it's James as well, right, Glad to be here and 8 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 1: to be here with you guys. So, even before I 9 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 1: was an anarchist, I would say there were three things 10 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 1: I really despised. Things I despised from like fairly early 11 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 1: each that being the education system, advertising and porters. I 12 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 1: believe freedom of movement is fundamental. I don't know if 13 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 1: that's controversial or anything, but these days it feels like 14 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 1: it has reached a point of like really great restriction, 15 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 1: more so, I think than at most points of human history. 16 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 1: So I want to talk about the history of borders, 17 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:27,120 Speaker 1: the role of borders, and the fight against borders. Not 18 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:29,680 Speaker 1: to give you some context, I guess you didn't talk 19 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:33,480 Speaker 1: about my accent and from the Caribbean, particularly from Turno, 20 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 1: Tobago and being from an island nation twin island nation. Actually, 21 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 1: um I have been made away of the constant through 22 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 1: history that has been into Ireland migration, whether you're talking 23 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 1: about the Polynesian migrations across the specific whether you're talking 24 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: about even within the Malay Archipe Loco or the Philippine Archipelago, 25 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: or even when you're talking about of course the Caribbean, 26 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: there's always been, you know, this movement of people going 27 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 1: from Ireland to Ireland. You know, like Tronada is very 28 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 1: close to northeastern Venezuela, only eleven kilometers off the coast 29 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 1: of northeastern Venezuela. Our Northern Range literally called Northern Range 30 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:30,360 Speaker 1: is an extension of Venezuela's maritime and these mountains, but 31 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 1: the connections to end there. Human settlements in turn IAD 32 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: dates back at least seven thousand years. In fact, one 33 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 1: of the oldest human settlements discovered in the Eastern Caribbean, 34 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 1: the Banuari Trae site, is found in southeastern Turndad. One 35 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 1: of the leading theories of human dispersal across the world 36 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 1: places the migration of the Caribbean as beginning in TURNAD 37 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 1: and going up the Antillian chain. A lot of the 38 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 1: indigenous groups that settled in turn Ad and in the 39 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:07,839 Speaker 1: other islands north of turn Ad for the most part, 40 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 1: migrated up the or No Coal River in what is 41 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 1: now Venezuela. So exchange and migration between the continent and 42 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 1: the island has continued undisturbed freely for thousands of years 43 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: before the arrival of the Spanish, and today, in our 44 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:29,559 Speaker 1: free coote and code post colonial code and code world, 45 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 1: what was once the norm is now criminalized. Now you 46 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: have to go through this proper process in order to migrate. 47 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 1: You have to ask permission from governments who draw these 48 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: invisible lines or in some cases violently physical lines in 49 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: the sand and demanded deference. And yet still migration continues 50 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 1: because migration is a constant of human existence, legal and illegal. 51 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 1: Recent Venecuela crisis and subsequent migration is just another uptake 52 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 1: of the stay. Refugees desperate to escape the present um 53 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 1: of American imperialism and Venezuelan govern mismanagement and all the 54 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: component is ues that have caused Venezuelan crisis have been 55 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: flee into Colombia, to Brazil, to the Dutch Caribean Islands, 56 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 1: to the other Latin American countries, and of course to 57 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:25,280 Speaker 1: turn that well, this's my creation is extorted by opportunists, facility, 58 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:29,919 Speaker 1: by the organized crime of human traffickers, because when you 59 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: try to restrict that kind of demand, when you illegalize 60 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 1: that kind of movement, the people on the margins, we'll 61 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 1: try to take advantage of those who are who need 62 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 1: to move around, because that need is still there. And 63 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 1: so lines also, of course are not necessarily creating, but 64 00:04:54,480 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: they still to exacerbate issues like xenophobia, which is you know, 65 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:05,359 Speaker 1: only amplified by the existence of borders. And they also 66 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: deal with, due to their paperless status, a lot of 67 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: gross exploitation because they struggled to find work and secure 68 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: the basic necessities of life. The Venezuelan refugee crisis is 69 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 1: a disaster I've seen unfull before my own eyes when 70 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 1: I have witnessed firsthand, and one that is facilitated and 71 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 1: exacerbated by the existence of borders. And I've seen similar 72 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:30,479 Speaker 1: issues occurd at the parts of the world too. You know, 73 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:34,919 Speaker 1: Borders are enforced between the US and Mexico, between Haiti 74 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: and the Binican Republic, between Spain and Morocco, between Europe 75 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 1: in the Swanna region, between India and Pakistan, between Australia 76 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 1: and Indonesia, UM, between Palestine and Israel, and being journalists, 77 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 1: I'm sure you guys have experienced perhaps foostand other examples 78 00:05:54,720 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: of the violent enforcement of borders. James, you have any experiences, Yeah, 79 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: for sure. I actually live just about the same distance 80 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:06,280 Speaker 1: you live from Venezuela. I live about the same distance 81 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:09,479 Speaker 1: from the US border with Mexico. So I've spent quite 82 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 1: a lot of my journalistic career crossing the border and 83 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: reporting on the border. And like, it's as you said, 84 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: it's become increasingly violently enforced, and it's just ugly scar 85 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:26,040 Speaker 1: on on the landscape now. And it's and I often 86 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 1: like to say, the border doesn't protect people, it controls people. 87 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: It's yeah, it's a very cruel and vicious and entirely 88 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 1: arbitrary distinction between what is Kumi is Land to the 89 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: north of the border and Kumi is Land to the 90 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 1: south of the border in my case, yeah, exactly exactly. 91 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:51,360 Speaker 1: The way that borders have cut through um the ame 92 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 1: lands of any different indigenous groups has been absolutely disastrous 93 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: for them. This is taken place and of course the US, 94 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: UM and most I suppose recognizably in Africa, where these 95 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 1: clunial borders have been causing tremendous harm to this day. Yeah. Yeah, 96 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: it's a very good point. I remember just talking of 97 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 1: like weird border things. I remember in just before the pandemic, 98 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: I was on the border between Rwanda and the Democratic 99 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: Republic of Congo, and when you did, it just seems 100 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 1: so absurd, like to think that you know, some literally 101 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 1: some I'll do in England, or a line on a 102 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 1: map or whatever in Germany. But one of the things 103 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 1: that it creates is this weird situation where plastic bags 104 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 1: are illegal in Rwanda because they're trying to protect the 105 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 1: environment and they're not in Congo. So there's like this 106 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 1: illegal arbitrage trader of of plastic bags across this border. 107 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 1: And it's just such an odd and constructed, entirely unnecessary 108 00:07:52,720 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 1: and strange sort of legacy of the colonial plunder of Africa. Yeah. 109 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 1: I didn't even hear that before. And that sounds quite interesting. Um, 110 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 1: he says, between Rwanda and Democrats Republic of the Congo. Yeah, 111 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 1: I think it's the border town there, um right, Yeah, 112 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 1: people people will come across with their plastic bags. Be 113 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 1: interesting to see how that develops. I know they are 114 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: attempting to unify Democratic Republic of the Congo, Tanzania, Kenya, Uganda, 115 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 1: Salt Sudan, Um, I think Jubooty and and Somalia and 116 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:36,200 Speaker 1: a few other places I think into like an East 117 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 1: African federation. So be interested to see how those umscan 118 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: seas and laws developed. Yeah, the rwandam bordered with Congo 119 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: is that there's a soldier every fifty ms with a 120 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 1: big machine gun, even going right through the middle of 121 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 1: the Young Way rainforest, which is very remote by rewinded standards, 122 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:00,319 Speaker 1: a busy country with lots of people. But yeah, that's 123 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 1: a very militarized border right now, right, Yeah, Yeah, that 124 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:07,959 Speaker 1: reminds you it's a less militorized example. UM. I mean, 125 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 1: people point out the disparity between the US Kindada border 126 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 1: and the US Mexico border, But I remember reading a 127 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:19,439 Speaker 1: story somewhere about how person on the Canadian side UM 128 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 1: had like they could very easily cross over onto the 129 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:25,719 Speaker 1: US side, but there was like a steep trooper or 130 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:28,560 Speaker 1: something just standing there and it's like if you cross over, 131 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 1: have to arrest you. And it's just it's like you're 132 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:35,320 Speaker 1: right there, We're literally having a conversation face to face, 133 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,599 Speaker 1: and yet if I walk over this our cherry designation, 134 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 1: I have to be jailed. Yeah, it's biz. There's a 135 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 1: very arbitrary The border between Neanmar and Thailand is it's 136 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: a funny example like that where like it's a river 137 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 1: and this is unfortunately resulted in people trying to cross it. 138 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:58,319 Speaker 1: Here we're able to swim dying, which is terrible, right, 139 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:00,599 Speaker 1: But one thing that happened, it's like if you're in 140 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:03,680 Speaker 1: the river, you're in neither country. And so people will 141 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: make stilts, like little stands on stilts which come up 142 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 1: to the level of the river bank so that they 143 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 1: can stand in like no man's land or every man's 144 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 1: land maybe everyone's land, and sell alcohol without paying the 145 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:22,079 Speaker 1: Thai taxes and things to people who are standing on 146 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: the bank in Thailand. And again it just really illustrates 147 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:38,199 Speaker 1: how stupid now, but treat this whole thing is so 148 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 1: as we're talking about the absurdity of boilers, I suppose 149 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: it's wanting fair to get into their history because for 150 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 1: most of the rule and for most of human existence, 151 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 1: really free movement has been the status school traders, migrants, 152 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 1: hunter gatherers, nomads. They freely each a boost. This little 153 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: blue marble, as they call it. Of course, many ethnic 154 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 1: groups maintains it in relationships with particular lands. But even 155 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: when city states on such rules, it was rare for 156 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 1: rulers to delineate precisely where their realm ended and another's began. 157 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 1: The first like large scale restrictions really a rose under 158 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: the Roman emperor Constantine in the fourth century when he 159 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 1: forbade serves from leaving their lord's land. Documents, of course, 160 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 1: had to be created to request save passage to ask 161 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 1: O king, will you please allow me to move from 162 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 1: point A to point B? My lord, your majesty soon whatever? 163 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:52,599 Speaker 1: What what do we call the first past sports is 164 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 1: what quickly in rules the medieval era essentially bound large 165 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:02,559 Speaker 1: parts of yours population in place by sufdom, and movement 166 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 1: was viewed by rulers as ruin us to their low 167 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 1: and order. They needed static populations to stay in place 168 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 1: so that taxation and the raising of troops and whatever 169 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 1: they wanted to extract could easily be extracted. Because you know, 170 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 1: if these persidents were able to just move as they pleased, 171 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: they will probably try to evade taxation that got a 172 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:40,079 Speaker 1: little bit too excessive. Um, they would probably trying to 173 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 1: evade the oppression of their rulers, and that they did. 174 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: I mean, throughout feudalism, peasant revolts and uprisings very commonplace, 175 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 1: and it's due to those revolts of the masses that 176 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:03,440 Speaker 1: sifdom would come into a decline as a wage labor 177 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:06,960 Speaker 1: rules in the fifteenth and sixteen centuries. But that would 178 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:11,319 Speaker 1: mean that free movement came back because now people were 179 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 1: commodity that a country's government wanted to keep within its borders. 180 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 1: Surrulers offered citizenship and tax incentives and want to encourage migration. 181 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 1: And yet while they were encouraging migration, they were also 182 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:28,560 Speaker 1: kicking people out. So countries like Spain and France were 183 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 1: either executing or expelling ethnic and religious minorities and mass 184 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 1: So this period also bring about the rights of nationalism, 185 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:44,319 Speaker 1: which would tap into an earlier sense of um I 186 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:51,079 Speaker 1: suppose connection and sort of subvert that from connection to 187 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:56,679 Speaker 1: community to connection to this abstract notion of nation state, 188 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:03,079 Speaker 1: the imaginary community of the nation jenn. Nationalism in Europe 189 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 1: would attempt to unify a vast and diverse range of 190 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 1: cultural groups and classes under one state, while defining themselves 191 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 1: against outsiders, and of course this ruling class meta narrative 192 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 1: exists as a mechanism of manufactured, meaningless loyalty in order 193 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:26,240 Speaker 1: to control you. But that's a topic for another time. 194 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 1: This era has also been described as one of the 195 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 1: largest periods of involuntary migration in human history, that be 196 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 1: in the Transatlantic slave trade, which trafficed and estimated twelve 197 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 1: point five million in slave African people between the sixteen 198 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 1: and nineteenth century. But there was this one key movement 199 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 1: in history of borders that would have lasted effects to today. 200 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 1: At the end of the Thirty Years War, the Peace 201 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 1: of Westphalia was signed by a gen nine principalities and 202 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 1: touchies and imperial kingdoms which basically agreed in sixty eight 203 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: that the state's borders were inviolable and an absolute sovereign 204 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:14,600 Speaker 1: state could not interfere the domestic affairs of another. Now, 205 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 1: of course, this is all just talk right at the 206 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 1: end of the day, states have continued to interfere the 207 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:25,120 Speaker 1: domestic affairs of others, will continue to violate the words 208 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 1: of other states. There are plenty of board disputes that 209 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 1: are alive and well some decades or even centuries old, 210 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 1: um on this planet. And then, of course this whole 211 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 1: idea of West Philian sovereignty would not really be applied 212 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: to people outside of Europe. The actual inhabitants of the 213 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 1: interesting looking maps that the West Fillian era produced, we're 214 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 1: not actually made privy to any of those um this 215 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: visions about the drawing up borders. They would also be moving, 216 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 1: of course people continuously, so you know, Spain was kicking 217 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 1: out um Jewish people and more's and people who relate 218 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 1: the heretics as un the inquisition Um. The British was 219 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 1: moving their dissenters, criminals and general pains and new bombacy 220 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 1: to settle colonize in places like Australia, which is why 221 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 1: Australia is like that. And things progress a bit further, 222 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 1: you have the notion of free trade and free market 223 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 1: gain in some ground thanks to Adam Smith's new school 224 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 1: of economics. At the same time, concerns of population and 225 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 1: the mouths, unemployment and social unrest in Europe led governments 226 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 1: to start facilities and emigration moving out their colonies the 227 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 1: more general free flow settler clonalism, which would lead to 228 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:07,399 Speaker 1: domestic depopulation in Europe. And then there was another shift 229 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:11,600 Speaker 1: as tend to be the case in human history. As 230 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 1: in the nineteenth century, migrants from now underdeveloped regions began 231 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:18,920 Speaker 1: to stream towards the more developed areas and drews. So 232 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:21,919 Speaker 1: you had North Africans going to France, Italians and Irish 233 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 1: headed to New York and all the while, of course, 234 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 1: racism and xenophobia festeran and proliferating as nationalists with top 235 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: fay against the so called threats to their nation. Of course, 236 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 1: Italians and Irish were eventually assimilated into the hegemonic notion 237 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:44,080 Speaker 1: of whiteness. But North Africans in France have not been 238 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 1: so lucky. Oh, I suppose lucky could and could because 239 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:53,920 Speaker 1: there's a whole conversation about how whiteness destroys cultures and 240 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 1: erases the unique identities that these people would have come 241 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 1: up with in an efforts to unite them against minorities 242 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:16,920 Speaker 1: such as African Americans in the US. Do you see 243 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 1: this period of lockdown, of this increased nationalism and these restrictions, 244 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 1: These bad restrictions would also try to manipulate access to 245 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:32,679 Speaker 1: certain technologies, um the telegraph, the railroad. Yes, they enabled 246 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 1: central governments to assert their presence across their whole territory. 247 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:41,000 Speaker 1: But they would also try to compete with other nations 248 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:47,879 Speaker 1: UM and keep certain secrets regarding technology. See that particularly 249 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 1: UM during the Cold War, but we'll get to that 250 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 1: a bit later. During the First World War we have 251 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 1: the death of some sixteen million people, the Great War UM, 252 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 1: as you should probably call it if you ever happened 253 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 1: to time travel to that period. I don't think people 254 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,480 Speaker 1: would want to hear that this is just the first 255 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 1: two World Wars. But after the World War UM, the 256 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: Great War UM, this seggregationist Wouldrew Wilson, who was US 257 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:24,200 Speaker 1: President at the time, proposed fourteen points to the international 258 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:27,720 Speaker 1: community in order to prevent such horrors. And one of 259 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 1: those core principles of the fourteen points was it the 260 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: globe's borders. We were drawn along clearly recognizable lines of nationality. 261 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:38,639 Speaker 1: And like I said before, this is of course just 262 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 1: in Europe. It's not like any of these will leaders 263 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:43,880 Speaker 1: actually care about the territories they coved up in Africa. 264 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:46,920 Speaker 1: And I think there was a point that I wanted 265 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:52,359 Speaker 1: to make about technology and how technology has been restricted 266 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 1: because when you look at again the real road and telegraph, 267 00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:59,880 Speaker 1: while they enabled the central governments to suit their presence 268 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 1: send assume their control onlike ever before, the potential these 269 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:10,159 Speaker 1: technologies was kind of lost. Yes, the railroad in the 270 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:13,720 Speaker 1: telegraph can help a government to sue its control over 271 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 1: its territory, but it can just as easily empower people 272 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 1: to travel further and faster than they ever had before, 273 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: two communicate across greater distances and they ever had before, 274 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 1: and insteadin the hands of the states. These technologies are 275 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: of course used for oppress events. Back to the end 276 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 1: of the First World War. In the post war period, 277 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 1: which saw the collapse of four European empires Ottoman, Russian, Austro, 278 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:48,879 Speaker 1: Hungarian and German, millions of refugees were left in a 279 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:53,360 Speaker 1: world where immigration controls are continued to tighten and passports 280 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:57,879 Speaker 1: gained great a prominence. Last, once the nation state was 281 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:02,159 Speaker 1: meanted in place fashion Zalman Nazism would quickly arise to 282 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:06,160 Speaker 1: god its supposed to purity. The world would once again 283 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 1: be plunged into war, the second one, this time which 284 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 1: would again leave millions of uprooted and displaced people that 285 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:18,160 Speaker 1: states like Switzerland quote unquote neutral and the US would 286 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:23,400 Speaker 1: largely refuse to assist. After the Second World War, nation 287 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 1: building would continue to displace and slaughter some millions of 288 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 1: ethnic and religious minorities. Millions of refugees have been dismissed 289 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 1: from lands that have been colonized and imperialized, and intervened 290 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 1: with wars and wrecked with just the destruction of climate 291 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:48,160 Speaker 1: change and poverty. And yet immigration controls only tightened further, 292 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 1: and they will likely continue to tighten due to the 293 00:21:53,920 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 1: effects of climate migration and climate collapse, especially in our 294 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 1: post ninety leveln reality. US border patrolling particular has escalated 295 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 1: to employed twenty thousand agents, and Israel Run is the 296 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 1: largest open air prison in the world. These days, militarized 297 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:18,920 Speaker 1: borders with heavily guarded barbed wire and electrified fences, which 298 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 1: were once common in times of war, have now been 299 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:26,639 Speaker 1: a staple of times of peace. These managinary lines and 300 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 1: the map have become in some places violent fixtures on 301 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,680 Speaker 1: the landscape, with thousands of people lose their lives every 302 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:36,560 Speaker 1: year for simply trying to cross. We've entered an era 303 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 1: of essentially bordering without precedent, and thanks to today's technology, 304 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 1: governments no more now about the people they govern, the 305 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,399 Speaker 1: people within their territory, but at any point prior in 306 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 1: human history. Cross border surveillance keeps neighbors in the new 307 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 1: managing and monitoring their populous like lab rates, data has 308 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:04,159 Speaker 1: become more valuable then black Cold itself. These governments have 309 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:09,119 Speaker 1: chosen to wall, and so they this is our will now. 310 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:16,400 Speaker 1: It's not some future cyberpunk, the stupia, the curveillance capitalist 311 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 1: heales keepers here now and borders have an important rule 312 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 1: to play. But as our power structure their system of control. 313 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:29,880 Speaker 1: As the writers A Crime think Of said, there's only 314 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:35,200 Speaker 1: one world on the border is tearing it apart. And 315 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: I think the idea of borders extends much further than 316 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 1: just the nations borders. When you look at the Internet, 317 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:50,360 Speaker 1: fire walls, the checkpoints, the hidden databases, the for profit prisons, 318 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:55,960 Speaker 1: indicated communities, all these different boundaries enforced by ceaseless violence, 319 00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 1: enforced by a deep autation, enforced by visual anti attacks, 320 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 1: by street haraspment, by torture, All of these boundaries are 321 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 1: holding us back and tearing us apart. Migrants, due to 322 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 1: their vulnerable status or often the first target when it 323 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 1: comes to the economic down to and depression. Civilians and 324 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 1: scapegoating nations wield fair of this other and they use 325 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:35,959 Speaker 1: that to prevent their people from fighting for better. They 326 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:41,119 Speaker 1: turned their eye towards another victim. I doesn't even get 327 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 1: into all the different categories that have been constructed my 328 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 1: grant expert refugee, asylum seeker, illegal alien, and that one 329 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 1: in particular really grinds my cares because it is a 330 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 1: believe the pinnacle of dehumanization to look at a person 331 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 1: who's dice just man just managed to like just by 332 00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:19,160 Speaker 1: happen sands fell on the other side of the border, 333 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:23,120 Speaker 1: to look at them and to deem them alien, deem 334 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,360 Speaker 1: them illegal, to brand them that, and I even acknowledge 335 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,639 Speaker 1: the humanity when referring to them. And it's become a 336 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 1: normalized part of political discourse to speak of illegal aliens. 337 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,480 Speaker 1: But I don't think we should forget just how violent 338 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 1: that kind of languages. It's particularly violent when you count 339 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:49,920 Speaker 1: for the fact that while these borders are used to 340 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 1: restrict people on the lowest rung of society, capital has 341 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:58,440 Speaker 1: very few restrictions. In fact, that has much less restrictions, 342 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 1: and people the rich and their capital can cross borders 343 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:10,360 Speaker 1: with ease, go from place to place without munch process. 344 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 1: And in fact, we look at Jeff Bass. Also we 345 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 1: say that, oh, well, he's the richest man the world 346 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 1: for but when you account for the wealth that has 347 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:28,640 Speaker 1: not been accounted for, I think it must be put 348 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:34,399 Speaker 1: into perspective that Bill Gates are Sackaboo, Jeff Beazles, etcetera. 349 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 1: They are the richest people that we know of, not 350 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:46,440 Speaker 1: necessarily the richest. A global economy has also been, of course, 351 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 1: moving resources for a while now. Resources have more freedom 352 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:58,520 Speaker 1: than people. The unequal and even development has extracted minerals 353 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: and materials from some parts of the process them in 354 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 1: other parts of the world, manufacture them in other parts 355 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 1: of the world, and then sold worldwide for the profits 356 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,240 Speaker 1: to be hoarded by select few countries and select a 357 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:15,359 Speaker 1: few people. These wealthy countries under the poor and then 358 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:20,159 Speaker 1: brutalize those who follow. Where the opportunities of Antica. But 359 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,679 Speaker 1: I don't think that one's opportunities one freedom. One's freedom 360 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 1: should be restricted by where they were born or by 361 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 1: the wealth that they do to not control. Passports, inequality 362 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 1: is essue that should not exist. Passports should not exist. 363 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:43,920 Speaker 1: Palestinians can travel visa free to only thirty eight countries 364 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 1: and territories. Yet those in the West Bank are restricted 365 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,920 Speaker 1: by violent by violent checkpoints, and those who live in 366 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,920 Speaker 1: gas are call you the stript at all. Meanwhile, other 367 00:27:54,000 --> 00:28:00,399 Speaker 1: regions enjoy fast These are free travels, such as humans 368 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:04,119 Speaker 1: who have access to d countries and territories, or the 369 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:08,320 Speaker 1: Japanese who enjoy the most freedom, piece of free of all, 370 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:14,720 Speaker 1: with ninety three countries available to them. A billionaire like 371 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 1: Elon Musket flying wherever he wants in his private jet. 372 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:20,920 Speaker 1: A political prisoner like a Jory Luta, who can be 373 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:26,480 Speaker 1: kept in solitary bears on end traditional seafear and channels 374 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:34,160 Speaker 1: and land has been militarized and guarded by these vast navies, 375 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 1: by these vast troops, by these these machines, These structures 376 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:46,960 Speaker 1: that disconnected, unraveled the deep ties between communities. Borderston us 377 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 1: all into prisoners, and I think it's about time we 378 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 1: resisted them. As the underground railroads of anti Nazi and 379 00:28:56,320 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 1: anti slavery resistance has shown everyday people can help everyday people, 380 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:05,880 Speaker 1: no matter the obstacles. If you live in a border 381 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 1: sanctuary city or a migrant community, they are probably already 382 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 1: groups that are put in this work, and you could 383 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,880 Speaker 1: join that infrastructure resistance if not, you can help to 384 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,240 Speaker 1: create that infrastructure to connect with people who are affected 385 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,720 Speaker 1: by borders in ways that you aren't. I mean, perhaps 386 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 1: you have a neighbor or a cool worker who's undocumented 387 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 1: and could use help in that. Try to connect cross 388 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:39,720 Speaker 1: border formal and informal, public and coland design because these connections, 389 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:48,959 Speaker 1: these networks, or how people move live and evade state violence. Obviously, 390 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 1: I can't speak for everybody situation because different people's legal status, 391 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:58,480 Speaker 1: language ability, education level, gender, raised class, commit muns and ability. 392 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 1: What a fact that can atribution to this anti borders movement. 393 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 1: But however you decide to contribute, I hope that you 394 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 1: would remember who it is we're trying to help. We're 395 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 1: not trying to act as you know, these saints for 396 00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 1: the media, and I recognized the irony of saying saints 397 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 1: in particular considered my allD YouTube name. But the media 398 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:33,240 Speaker 1: is not all focus. The audience of our actions is 399 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 1: not public opinion. It is those we want fighting with us, 400 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:41,120 Speaker 1: people who need our help, people who know the violent 401 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:48,480 Speaker 1: supporters forstand so they get into direct action. Two, you know, 402 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 1: directly affect the material outcomes of people influence our borders. 403 00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:57,120 Speaker 1: You know, whether you're helping my creation prisoner manach to escape, 404 00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 1: or helping one person get a roof over their head 405 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 1: in an asylum case, having a person who is trapped 406 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 1: in this system to find the strength to get through 407 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 1: a day. These actions refupreating our communities, and they kilp 408 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 1: oup others do the same. You also need, of course, 409 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 1: more infrastructure, networks, alliances, skills and resources to be cultivated 410 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 1: to strengthen our autonomy from these structures and to develop 411 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:32,360 Speaker 1: ability to defend against them. And of course these actions 412 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 1: should be rooted in some strategy long term and short 413 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:41,840 Speaker 1: term for overcoming this regime months and for all. Just 414 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 1: for a final would I would say that there is 415 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 1: nothing necessary or inevitable about borders. Only the violence of 416 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 1: their most ardent believers keep them in place, and without them, 417 00:31:56,320 --> 00:32:02,480 Speaker 1: what as with seems to exist. Borders can only exist 418 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 1: if they are enforced, and together we can make borders 419 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 1: an enforceable. Together, we can create a will in which 420 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 1: everyone is free to travel, free to create, and free 421 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:23,600 Speaker 1: to exist on their own terms. Now's it. If you 422 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:29,560 Speaker 1: like what I spoke about in this episode, or if 423 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 1: you just like to hear my voice, feel free to 424 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 1: check out my YouTube channel and toism and you can 425 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,440 Speaker 1: support me on peature dot com slash seeing True or 426 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 1: follow me on Twitter at and disclore saying true. It 427 00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:49,760 Speaker 1: could Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media. 428 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,640 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from pool Zone Media, visit our website 429 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 1: cool zone Media dot com, or check us out on 430 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:57,360 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 431 00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,640 Speaker 1: listen to podcasts. You can find sources for could Happen Here, 432 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:04,120 Speaker 1: updated monthly at cool zone Media dot com slash sources. 433 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:05,160 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.