WEBVTT - David Paich 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.560 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast. 0:00:13.119 --> 0:00:17.919 My guest today is keyboardist extraordinary David Peach, you know 0:00:18.160 --> 0:00:21.280 from Toto and his work on album with Michael Jackson, 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:25.159 Bob Skags and so many more. He's just released his 0:00:25.239 --> 0:00:33.280 first solo album, Broken Toys. David, Why a solo album? Why? Now? Uh? Well, 0:00:34.040 --> 0:00:37.760 I kind of got bullied into this, Bob. My my 0:00:37.840 --> 0:00:42.240 cohorts and colleagues, Steve Lucather and uh Joseph Williams. We're 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:46.280 making solo records pre COVID and uh I got involved 0:00:46.280 --> 0:00:51.879 with their solo records and uh uh uh they prompted me, 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:53.560 They said, well, what you need to put out solo 0:00:53.600 --> 0:00:55.320 record out? And I said, why I don't. I don't 0:00:55.320 --> 0:00:58.280 do solo records. I do my band records. And he said, no, 0:00:58.320 --> 0:01:00.680 it's time for you to do that. You have some 0:01:00.840 --> 0:01:04.120 material lying around. To get that material out there and 0:01:04.200 --> 0:01:07.840 so people can hear it. So I got in uh uh, 0:01:08.280 --> 0:01:10.800 I got Joseph Williams to co produce with me, and 0:01:10.920 --> 0:01:14.039 uh we just got in the studio and started uh 0:01:14.160 --> 0:01:17.760 uh pulling open pieces out and uh I decided to 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:22.360 start the album. And this is about two years ago. Okay, 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:24.680 do you have a lot of old pieces around and 0:01:24.720 --> 0:01:28.320 why were they not previously used? Uh, they just didn't 0:01:28.400 --> 0:01:30.399 have a home. Sometimes you come up with us just 0:01:30.520 --> 0:01:34.640 little sections of songs and uh, sometimes you work them 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:38.440 into framing them into as a song, or sometimes they're 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:41.760 just uh forgotten about. You know, by the way that 0:01:41.840 --> 0:01:46.240 the album titles forgotten Toys. Sorry, that's okay. No I 0:01:46.280 --> 0:01:49.000 mentioned that it was originally broken Toys, but it is 0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:52.720 Forgotten Toys now, so they're all forgotten songs that needed 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:55.400 dusting off and uh and to find a new home. 0:01:55.480 --> 0:01:58.360 You know, So how many did you have to go 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:02.880 through to find the one you want? Oh? Probably maybe 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:06.800 about twenty pieces? Little pieces and stuff like this, because 0:02:06.800 --> 0:02:10.360 this is a song an album that was put together 0:02:10.639 --> 0:02:13.520 kind of like a puzzle where we said, we we 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:15.680 have these pieces of music, but we don't know what 0:02:15.720 --> 0:02:18.120 the puzzle looks like. So we had to frame it, 0:02:18.240 --> 0:02:22.959 get the forum on it, and uh uh, get lyrics 0:02:23.000 --> 0:02:25.800 written and get melodies written to it. So it was 0:02:25.840 --> 0:02:28.720 a work in progress the whole time. Okay, so you 0:02:28.840 --> 0:02:32.000 started two weeks two years ago, not two weeks ago, 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:35.040 and it is forgotten Toy. Sorry for that. Funk up 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:40.040 okay and uh, so when you started with Joseph, what 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:43.720 were the first steps? The first step was Joseph came 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:46.960 in and heard a demo that I had done, and 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:50.600 this is on the song first Time, uh, which is 0:02:50.639 --> 0:02:54.760 like the third cut on the EP, and uh, he said, 0:02:54.919 --> 0:02:58.000 give me that. Let me take that and make a 0:02:58.040 --> 0:03:01.400 blueprint of that. And what he did was he took 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:04.519 my original scynth little synth riff that I was playing 0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:10.480 uh on on a keyboard, and he added his samples 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:13.200 to that and made a little rhythm track of that 0:03:13.440 --> 0:03:17.079 what he calls getting ready for Musicians, where he makes 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:21.400 uh these little uh almost demos, but they're really fat 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:25.280 good demos before we started adding the human element, which 0:03:25.280 --> 0:03:28.600 are the musicians. So he gave some stuff. How did 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:32.680 you end up with the total compliment of songs? I mean, 0:03:32.680 --> 0:03:35.160 there are seven songs on the album? How do you 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:39.360 get seven? Uh? I tried. There were some a couple 0:03:39.360 --> 0:03:41.800 of extra songs, but I didn't feel I wanted to 0:03:41.840 --> 0:03:46.960 convolute the record and and have songs that people skipped over. 0:03:47.360 --> 0:03:50.040 I don't what didn't want any filler in there, and 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:51.760 this is just what I had at the at the 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:55.240 given amount of time. Uh, it's just what I came 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:57.720 up with. And I didn't want to include a little 0:03:57.720 --> 0:04:01.640 pieces that weren't together, you know, so uh uh these 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:05.240 these were my favorite ones. Okay, So where did you 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:09.240 cut it? We cut it at my studio here, which 0:04:09.280 --> 0:04:12.240 is called a t S that stands for across the street, 0:04:12.720 --> 0:04:17.560 and at Joseph's place also as well, and then we 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:20.839 went to a few studios to get musicians. Steve Jordan, 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:23.160 I sent him a track. Steve Jordan, who is now 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:27.000 the current drummer with Rolling Stones. Uh. He did his 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:31.120 in New York on Queen Charade and Uh. I went 0:04:31.160 --> 0:04:34.640 to Don Felder's house for this Queen Charade as well 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:36.880 to have him put slide guitar on it. And he 0:04:36.960 --> 0:04:40.120 was great. He's a fantastic slide player. I can't say 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:43.480 enough about what a great guy Don Felder is and 0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:47.400 how much he added to Uh. What a magical experience 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:50.440 that was watching him play slide guitar. How do you 0:04:50.520 --> 0:04:54.120 know Felder who used to be in The Eagle, Um, 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:59.520 he I have a common uh colleague of ours. Uh 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:03.400 asked me to do overdubs. He was the producer of 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:06.640 Don's album and he asked me to do some overdubs 0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:09.119 for Don's record, and so I have the last three 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:12.440 or two or three albums I've worked on doing overdubs 0:05:12.480 --> 0:05:15.120 for Don. And then when I asked him to to 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:19.880 uh play on my album, he didn't even flinch. It 0:05:20.000 --> 0:05:22.200 was just a big yes, with what time do you 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:25.120 need me? You know, he was so great. Now in 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:27.920 the old days, your studio musician, you're making, you know, 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:32.120 uh the raid or double or triple. When you call 0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:35.000 in your friends, people are interested in how it works. 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:38.920 Business is totally different. Everybody works for free and how 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:43.920 does it work a combination of both? You know, I 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:46.880 don't expect professionals to come in and work for free, 0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:51.919 but I have certain friends that won't, that refuse to 0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:55.000 work for money and stuff that will just their their 0:05:55.040 --> 0:05:58.600 returning favors. It's kind of like the old barter system. 0:05:58.640 --> 0:06:00.440 You know, you play on my record and I play 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:03.480 on your record, so some sometimes it's exchanged that way. 0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:06.440 Sometimes I write the person to check that's right here, 0:06:06.520 --> 0:06:09.920 right after they finished playing, and it's uh, it's done 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:15.679 deal okay. And how extensive is your home studio? Uh, 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:18.640 it's fairly extensive. I have an isolation booth. I have 0:06:18.680 --> 0:06:21.839 a control room. It was put together by the people 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:25.520 that by a mastering house called the Mastering Lab, which 0:06:25.560 --> 0:06:29.360 is a was the famous mastering facility in l A. Well, 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:31.880 those are the gentlemen that put in my sound system 0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:36.200 because I wanted a studio that sounded, uh, that you 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:40.080 could listen to professionally at two recordings at home, and 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:42.200 when you took it out of here, it wouldn't sound different. 0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:46.880 So I have a very professional small it's really for 0:06:46.960 --> 0:06:50.440 a keyboard player kind of producer. But yet I have 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:52.960 a right behind me, I have a nine ft grand piano. 0:06:53.279 --> 0:06:56.000 But I've used on all the total records, and I've 0:06:56.000 --> 0:07:00.000 recorded vocals and brass players in here before. And uh 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:03.080 uh that's about it. And what kind of equipment do 0:07:03.120 --> 0:07:05.880 you have? What kind of equipment? I've got old and new, 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:11.160 just like me, bob old and new. Okay, uh, I've 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:13.920 got um. I've got a ham and organ sitting right 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:16.840 in front of me. Here, I've got a nine ft 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:20.480 Baldwin st ten and back of me. But I've got 0:07:20.600 --> 0:07:25.440 also uh Nord instruments. I have core instruments. And I'm 0:07:25.440 --> 0:07:28.880 mainly using a computer now with a logic program and 0:07:28.920 --> 0:07:31.840 pro tools to do the recording. And I still have 0:07:31.920 --> 0:07:35.600 two analog machines sitting here just to remind my digital 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:39.400 uh computers, uh that there once was a past there. 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:43.480 You know, they're still sitting here watching, watching behind them. 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:46.120 I've got a twenty four tracks student, had a two 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:49.800 tracks student sitting in my studio. How long have you 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:54.600 had those students? Since? Total four? Okay, I've had them, 0:07:54.640 --> 0:07:56.960 and I kept waiting to use them, you know, to 0:07:57.040 --> 0:08:00.320 start doing uh the old analog thing where we cut 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:03.360 on analog and but the overdubs are done digitally. You know. 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:06.960 I found that just doing everything on pro tools uh 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:09.480 and eliminating tape is the way to go as far 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:12.680 as my years go. And when did you last use 0:08:12.800 --> 0:08:18.080 the studs? Uh? Probably about that time, probably the early 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:23.440 uh two thousand. I haven't used them. And what do 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:27.360 you have for a board and speakers? Uh, it's just 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:31.600 a virtual board right now. It's a I've got altic 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:38.160 big reds in my studio. Um and uh, I have 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:41.800 a little mini but just small board for opera for 0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:45.520 so you can manually do mixes and stuff. Uh, small 0:08:45.600 --> 0:08:50.800 mixing but nothing nothing, no large mixing and uh uh 0:08:50.920 --> 0:08:53.280 I don't know which really brand what my little board is, 0:08:53.320 --> 0:08:57.400 but it's it's all computer based, you know. Okay, do 0:08:57.480 --> 0:09:00.439 you have a sponsorship with Balden or do you for 0:09:00.720 --> 0:09:04.440 ball when to Steinway or Yamaha. I don't have one 0:09:04.520 --> 0:09:07.160 because I just used. I used whatever is the best 0:09:07.200 --> 0:09:10.520 for me. And uh, I was linked up with a 0:09:10.559 --> 0:09:13.080 couple of companies at one time, but now I'm a 0:09:13.120 --> 0:09:15.800 free agent and I'm linked up with nobody. And it's 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:19.080 kind of hard to get to keyboard endorsements because they 0:09:19.080 --> 0:09:23.000 don't really give keyboards away that often. And uh, but 0:09:23.120 --> 0:09:27.800 I was. I was associated with a larger company um 0:09:27.840 --> 0:09:32.600 which was Yamaha for for many years. And uh I 0:09:32.720 --> 0:09:36.079 used a lot of that stuff on like Africa and 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:40.880 Total four record. So the bald when you have behind you? 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:44.160 When did you get it? Where did it come from? 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:47.520 It came from a piano tuner who was famous in 0:09:47.559 --> 0:09:51.560 town named Keith Albright, who tuned all the pianos for 0:09:51.679 --> 0:09:54.600 the best playing pianos in town. I bought it from 0:09:54.679 --> 0:09:58.800 him the day before we cut the first tracks of 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:03.960 the first Total record. So the piano, my piano was there. 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:07.360 Uh on hold the line, which was the first track 0:10:07.440 --> 0:10:11.960 we cut in the studio. It was there, uh for Hydra, 0:10:12.160 --> 0:10:16.199 for Turnback. I used it on Rosanna, I wrote, used 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:20.680 it on Africa and uh all all our other records. 0:10:21.360 --> 0:10:24.800 I've always used this piano. So it has a special 0:10:24.800 --> 0:10:28.160 place in my heart. And uh uh it's been very 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:30.000 good to me as far as playing on all uh 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:36.160 are good our best records. Okay, when you used it 0:10:36.200 --> 0:10:40.520 for the total records, was it in your house then 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:43.160 or did you have it slept to the studio? I 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:46.360 had it slept, good word, I had slept to the studio. 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:49.680 And as we went later on, when I finally got 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:53.120 my new studio here, we started, I started doing overdubs here. 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:56.960 But it wasn't until you know this this millennium here 0:10:57.400 --> 0:11:02.200 that uh I started recording it uh away from the studio. 0:11:02.400 --> 0:11:05.360 Otherwise I had it brought there and tuned up and 0:11:05.480 --> 0:11:11.600 uh I brought my own mics with were chefs, uh 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:16.600 stereo mics to put in the piano and uh uh 0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:20.280 that was it. So how did you ultimately learn how 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:24.240 to mike the piano and what mikes to use? Asking 0:11:24.280 --> 0:11:26.880 a lot of engineers, a lot of questions and just 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:30.240 seeing whatever whenever I was in the studio, which was 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:34.440 many times playing piano. I'd watch the different guys mike 0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:36.760 the pianos. It's funny when I went in with the 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:38.680 I used to work. I used to be a Neil 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:44.600 Diamonds band and uh uh. Garmin Steiner, a very famous engineer, 0:11:45.600 --> 0:11:47.840 would use two k m a t eights on the piano. 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:50.520 But when Neil came in, he would change the mic. 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:53.320 It was like a secret his secret miking, which is 0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:56.680 to do a mono one mic uh you forty seven 0:11:57.080 --> 0:11:59.240 and to put it on the piano and it sounded. 0:11:59.280 --> 0:12:02.080 It would sounded zing. So I've gone anywhere from doing 0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:06.640 stereo pairs here was C. Twenty four's uh chefs mix, 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:11.160 to using a mono. There's different ways, different sounds for 0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:14.760 different songs. Okay, if one looks at the credits of 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:18.560 the new album, which of course is Forgotten Toys, not 0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:24.160 Broken Toys, it's a who's it's a who's who famous 0:12:24.240 --> 0:12:27.640 musicians you know, looking through How do you know Brian 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:30.360 Eno and how did he end up working on the record? Well, 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:32.920 actually I didn't. I didn't use any of those people 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:34.920 on the cover right there, I just said I used them. 0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:38.120 I just put those up just to sell more records. Actually, no, 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:40.959 I never met Brian, you know. Funny enough, I've never 0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:43.280 I've never met Brian. You know he worked on the 0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:48.080 first Dune record directly with David Lynch and uh, the 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:53.040 same producer that produced Don Felder. Uh knew him through 0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:57.720 association because he was playing with my friend was playing 0:12:57.760 --> 0:13:02.040 with um uh Paul Siman, and Brian Eno happened to 0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:06.440 be co producing Paul Simon's record. So Uh, my friend 0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:10.160 played him a couple of my early roughs on my 0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:13.880 album here and apparently this is what he told me. 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:17.640 Brian sent him heard the thing and sent him a 0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:21.720 couple of samples uh to include on this one song 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:26.360 called All All the Tears That Shine, which is in 0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:29.200 the very beginning you hear this little pulse sating beacon, 0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:31.760 and you also hear throughout the song and at the 0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:35.439 very end. And that was his contribution. And I thank 0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:37.719 him for that, uh, and I hope to meet him 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:41.880 face to face one day. Okay, you used Mike Laying 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:46.280 on piano, who unfortunately recently passed as a piano player. 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:49.640 Why would you use Mike? Mike and I go back, 0:13:50.080 --> 0:13:53.880 uh to when I was fifteen years old. My father 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:57.640 was the musical director on the Glenn Campbell Show, and 0:13:57.720 --> 0:14:00.480 he put together a great rhythm section for that, one 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:03.000 of which was Mike Lange, one of which was Joe 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:07.360 Pricaro Jeff Percarro's dad on percussion, one was Louis Shelton 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:12.840 uh steals and crops producer, and Paul Humphreys on drums 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:15.520 who played on Let's Get It On, and all these 0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:18.600 great musicians. Well, he was the piano player and I 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:21.200 used to sit next to him every Sunday during the 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:24.400 Glenn Campbell Show and UH. He would teach me things 0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:26.520 like how to play Hammond organ. I didn't even know 0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:29.440 how to turn a Hammond organ on back then, you 0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:32.440 know much, Let's play it, and UH I learned. He 0:14:32.440 --> 0:14:35.880 he was my mentor, and so we started talking about 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:39.680 doing UH. As the years kept going by and we 0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:43.760 kept playing together on various record dates. UM we did. 0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:47.360 We talked about possibly doing a record together sometime so 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:50.240 about eight years ago, I started him and I started 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:53.760 kicking around some ideas, and one of them was Lucy 0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:57.360 UH that we did. We ended up writing together. I 0:14:57.520 --> 0:15:00.000 played the head on it and he plays the incredib 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:02.520 solo that's in the middle, and then I finished it 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:05.360 on Hammond, Oregon. So it was just one of those 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:08.360 things where we kind of started a duet album, but 0:15:08.560 --> 0:15:11.080 it didn't come to fruition because he was so busy 0:15:11.280 --> 0:15:13.920 and I was quite busy. So I just I grabbed 0:15:13.920 --> 0:15:18.400 this track from my solo record. And what about Davy Johnstone, 0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:21.120 Elton's guitarist. How did he end up on the record? 0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:25.120 Davy has been a friend for over thirty years. He's 0:15:25.160 --> 0:15:28.480 been a close friend of mine, and uh, I just 0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:31.000 called Davy. I knew he was in town from Elton, 0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:34.720 and uh I asked him. I said, Davy, would you 0:15:34.760 --> 0:15:38.040 mind playing acoustic? And of course, Davey's the sweetest guy 0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:40.600 in the world. He said, of course I will. And 0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:44.720 because I wanted this certain uh texture uh that he 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:47.760 plays when he when he plays acoustic guitar that you 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:50.520 hear on all these Elting John records. Now, what's unique 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:53.800 about Davy's playing is every time I thought it was 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:57.280 a high hat or a shaker plane, keeping like songs 0:15:57.320 --> 0:16:00.960 like Daniel together, it was Davy's guitar. His acoustic rhythm 0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:03.760 guitar is like a percussion instrument. And all the Elton 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:06.720 John records are are nine of them where you heard 0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:10.680 Davy playing the rhythm to the guitar. So I thought 0:16:10.680 --> 0:16:13.000 he would be a great element to have. And like 0:16:13.040 --> 0:16:17.000 I said, he's a he's a dear friend, and uh 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:22.000 it was just it was a magical experience. Okay, Yeah, 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:25.760 Steve Jordan you mentioned earlier on drums, but you also 0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:29.720 have Greg Bissonette we all know, and Robin DiMaggio, who 0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:32.520 I don't know. Why are there different drummers and why 0:16:32.560 --> 0:16:38.160 are these particular people playing um When I'm making a record, 0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:42.440 especially when I'm making records have made records outside of Toto. 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:47.200 You have to cast the music, and you cast the 0:16:47.280 --> 0:16:49.960 music by casting each song, who would be a good 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:53.840 player on this song? So by having the luxury of 0:16:54.520 --> 0:16:57.080 doing a solo album, I was able to cast each 0:16:57.120 --> 0:17:00.880 song and Joseph helped me with the casting. But I 0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:04.359 knew definitely that I wanted to get to uh someone 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:09.480 like Steve Jordan's for uh Queen Charade, because that's the 0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:13.439 kind of drummer he is. He's very reckless and cavalier 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:17.080 and and loose with his plane. So I knew he'd 0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:21.919 be the right guy. And uh uh we got We 0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:26.600 knew hum Greg Bisonette from Ringo Starr. Of course I 0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:29.760 played with Greg before on he's played with Toto. He 0:17:29.760 --> 0:17:31.399 went out in the road with Toto for a week 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:35.760 when our drummer got sick one time. And uh, he's 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:38.959 been kind of an honorary member. And uh, we just 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:41.960 cast these people, like I said, like their character actors. 0:17:42.800 --> 0:17:44.960 Whoever is right for the part, you know, And we 0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:47.240 just felt each of those drummers was right for the 0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:51.680 parts that they played. Now, if for some reason you 0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:54.880 couldn't play, who would you cast to play your part? 0:17:55.640 --> 0:17:58.919 That's very easy. I would have Greg filling games in 0:17:58.960 --> 0:18:03.520 a second. Well, he ultimately played with Toto. But why 0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:06.399 do you say Greg great player? Because Greg is like 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:08.520 a brother from another mother. I know that the phrase 0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:11.679 is used a lot, but he does a version of me. 0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:14.680 When I sit down and play the piano. He goes, oh, 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:16.679 this is what you this is what you mean, and 0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:19.000 he sits down and plays exactly what I'm doing. But 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:21.320 it's the way he plays it, and he just adds 0:18:21.320 --> 0:18:25.040 his little touches to it. He's like a it's like 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:29.040 a doppelganger. It's weird. It's a him, but he's he's 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:31.439 got ten times the technique that I do. I'm not 0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:34.800 comparing myself with him because he went out with Stevie Wonder. 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:37.399 I mean, he joined Stevie when he was eighteen years old, 0:18:37.840 --> 0:18:40.680 and he's just a phenomena. He really is. He got 0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:43.440 perfect pitch and uh, I hate him for being as 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:47.200 talented as he is now. The signal from the album 0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:50.840 was Spirit of the Moon Rise. But my favorite song 0:18:51.080 --> 0:18:54.520 is will I Belong to You? What's the story with 0:18:54.600 --> 0:18:57.520 the title, How did will I Belong to You? Come together? 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:01.119 That came together from Joseph Williams. He just had a piece, 0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:03.320 and he had a piece, and there was really the 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:06.080 chorus to the song, and that's all he had was 0:19:06.119 --> 0:19:09.320 that little piece. So I said, I really I got 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:11.480 to write a song for that chorus because it was 0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:14.040 such a beautiful chorus, which is who I belong to 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:18.199 Who I belong to you? And uh, I came up 0:19:18.240 --> 0:19:23.560 with this little uh verse um that I thought would 0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:28.760 would be a nice uh uh bookend to the chorus. 0:19:29.200 --> 0:19:32.920 And uh, I'm again. I'm a big Paul Simon fan 0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:37.200 and Paul McCartney fans, So I like the acoustic I 0:19:37.640 --> 0:19:42.040 um brought in acoustic. Dean Parks on Acoustic guitar and 0:19:42.280 --> 0:19:46.200 uh uh Nathan East on bass, and I just thought 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:49.439 that Uh, Joseph and I filled it out, filled the 0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:52.840 rest of the between the course and the verses, filled 0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:55.719 it out with some transitional music and kind of just 0:19:56.560 --> 0:20:00.720 tried to get the imaginative with arrangement and how much 0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:03.400 of the record was cut with everybody in the room 0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:07.480 playing simultaneously, if at all, none of it. None of 0:20:07.480 --> 0:20:09.679 it was. But but the idea was to make it 0:20:09.720 --> 0:20:12.320 feel like that, and I think I achieved that pretty 0:20:12.400 --> 0:20:15.879 much because every time I listened to the record, and 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:18.719 I've listened to this album hundreds and hundreds of times, 0:20:18.960 --> 0:20:21.159 I always feel like I'm listening to a live performance 0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:24.879 from the guys, because that's the specialty of the end 0:20:25.000 --> 0:20:28.200 of the instrumentalists that I called in have the ability 0:20:28.240 --> 0:20:31.440 to overdub and make it feel like it's here, it's 0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:34.000 being done live right there. It never sounds like an 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:37.480 overdub to me, at least with these particular players. And 0:20:37.560 --> 0:20:40.040 Clear Mountain mixed. Did you just give him the tracks, 0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:41.320 say do what you do? Or do you give him 0:20:41.320 --> 0:20:43.520 a lot of instructions? And why Clear Mountain? Not that 0:20:43.560 --> 0:20:47.000 he's not great, but why him? Yes, yes to both 0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:50.359 of those. I always loved Bob clear Mountains mixing. He 0:20:50.520 --> 0:20:54.919 mits the Toto's album called Kingdom of Desire and I 0:20:55.119 --> 0:20:57.960 first we first made contact with him. Then I was 0:20:58.000 --> 0:21:01.000 a big Brian Adams fan with all of his records. 0:21:01.040 --> 0:21:04.879 Box was. Bob's done everything from in Excess to Uh, 0:21:05.000 --> 0:21:08.159 David Bowie and one of my favorite records, which is 0:21:08.160 --> 0:21:10.679 what I really liked him to be mixing Queen Charade on. 0:21:10.920 --> 0:21:13.840 He'd bixed Start Me Up for the Stones, and so 0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:16.119 it was a real treat having him the guy that 0:21:16.200 --> 0:21:19.920 mixed that record. Mix mix our record with Bob, I've 0:21:20.000 --> 0:21:24.399 usually had with mixer's I've usually had a a notepad 0:21:24.720 --> 0:21:27.119 with that had a couple of pages and notes on it. 0:21:27.560 --> 0:21:30.280 With Bob, I had I had a whole notepad and 0:21:30.400 --> 0:21:35.280 only had two uh suggestions on it. One was like, uh, 0:21:35.440 --> 0:21:38.439 turn the vocal up a little bit and turned the 0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:41.000 base up a little bit, and it was like two 0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:44.760 suggestions and the records done. He's so fast, he's uh 0:21:45.119 --> 0:21:50.120 he's another uh woonder kid, you know. So Needles just say, 0:21:50.200 --> 0:21:53.199 the record business is very different from the heyday of 0:21:53.280 --> 0:21:57.040 Toto to what Okay, so you're making the record at 0:21:57.119 --> 0:22:01.920 what point do you get a record company distributor? And 0:22:02.359 --> 0:22:05.840 are you still motivated to do it even though it's 0:22:05.880 --> 0:22:10.200 so hard to get anything recognized today? Those are all 0:22:10.240 --> 0:22:15.480 good questions. Uh. I I made the connection with the 0:22:15.520 --> 0:22:20.280 record company was his mascot through Steve Lucather, who has 0:22:20.320 --> 0:22:24.159 had solo albums more I think ten solo albums or 0:22:24.240 --> 0:22:28.520 more probably, and Joseph was on the label too, and 0:22:28.560 --> 0:22:31.199 I've hadn't heard nothing but good things about Mascott. So 0:22:31.280 --> 0:22:34.120 Luke started telling them, well, you know, David Pace might 0:22:34.119 --> 0:22:37.320 because they usually have good whole do guitar players the 0:22:37.359 --> 0:22:41.240 majority of their artists or guitar players. And uh, so 0:22:41.640 --> 0:22:44.480 Steve was touting me the fact that I was thinking 0:22:44.480 --> 0:22:47.440 about doing a solo record, and so he slipped them, 0:22:47.480 --> 0:22:50.080 he slipped them, slipped it in their ear. And I 0:22:50.119 --> 0:22:53.520 think that as my as I started gaining momentum and 0:22:53.560 --> 0:22:58.119 getting some tracks finished, uh, it started coming together. And 0:22:58.160 --> 0:23:02.800 then I got Steve Carris involved from a management standpoint, 0:23:03.320 --> 0:23:06.679 and uh they were kept waiting for waiting and waiting 0:23:06.680 --> 0:23:08.479 for me to get it done because I work at 0:23:08.480 --> 0:23:11.679 a snail's pace, and uh, because I have the luxury 0:23:11.680 --> 0:23:16.439 of having my studio here at home. So uh, they 0:23:16.480 --> 0:23:19.520 said they were interested, and I financed the record myself 0:23:19.640 --> 0:23:22.600 up until the point where we made the deal with them, 0:23:22.960 --> 0:23:25.959 and then they came in. Uh. But it's not like 0:23:26.040 --> 0:23:28.000 the old days where you can shop around all the 0:23:28.080 --> 0:23:30.960 majors and you're holding gold in your pocket, because no 0:23:31.000 --> 0:23:33.919 one's really waiting for my record to come out, you 0:23:33.920 --> 0:23:36.520 know what I mean specifically, So it's a it's a 0:23:36.520 --> 0:23:39.800 harder sell and I try and let the music sell itself. 0:23:40.040 --> 0:23:42.280 That's another reason I did the e P because I 0:23:42.280 --> 0:23:44.200 wanted to make sure I had all my best songs, 0:23:44.480 --> 0:23:48.320 all my best material uh in there. And uh the 0:23:48.400 --> 0:23:51.920 business has definitely changed from when we started a shopping 0:23:51.960 --> 0:23:58.639 it for a deal uh back in Okay. Now, we 0:23:58.800 --> 0:24:02.000 delayed this podcast for about a month because you were 0:24:02.040 --> 0:24:04.520 going on the road. What was being on the road like. 0:24:05.560 --> 0:24:09.280 Being on the road was me flying into specific places 0:24:10.119 --> 0:24:16.560 uh uh two places like uh New Orleans at Nashville 0:24:17.440 --> 0:24:21.760 and Sacramento. I flew into and I played uh the 0:24:21.840 --> 0:24:24.800 Staples Center, which is now not the Staples Center anymore. 0:24:25.160 --> 0:24:28.040 But uh uh and I I do like the last 0:24:28.080 --> 0:24:31.080 five songs in the show, and it's just because I'm 0:24:31.200 --> 0:24:34.760 I'm the Steve Luca there made me musical director for Toto, 0:24:34.880 --> 0:24:37.119 And what I do is just kind of oversee the 0:24:37.160 --> 0:24:40.680 rehearsals and make sure all the fine tuning and details 0:24:40.720 --> 0:24:45.200 are are maintained. And uh, and they asked me. They 0:24:45.200 --> 0:24:46.600 told me they wanted me to come out on the 0:24:46.680 --> 0:24:48.879 road whenever I can make it, to come out and 0:24:48.880 --> 0:24:51.640 do that. So I started getting the road itch, and 0:24:51.880 --> 0:24:53.959 I wanted to play with the band because it's one 0:24:53.960 --> 0:24:57.800 of the few last venues where you can actually play 0:24:57.880 --> 0:25:01.400 live music. It's not hardly done in recording studios anymore, 0:25:01.800 --> 0:25:04.600 which whereas where we used to play every single day 0:25:04.640 --> 0:25:09.679 all day long is in recording studios. But uh uh 0:25:09.800 --> 0:25:12.960 now uh it's on stage live, which is which is 0:25:12.960 --> 0:25:17.400 why I think so many artists, premiere artists and smaller 0:25:17.480 --> 0:25:20.520 artists are touring. It's just the fact that they're keeping 0:25:20.680 --> 0:25:23.760 a music alive and able to do the live experience 0:25:24.200 --> 0:25:27.240 where you commune with the audience there and it's a 0:25:27.280 --> 0:25:31.479 special as a special uh moment. Like I said, it's 0:25:31.480 --> 0:25:34.720 a magical experience. When you're out with an audience, they 0:25:34.760 --> 0:25:38.240 give you energy. You feed off that energy, and uh, 0:25:38.280 --> 0:25:42.520 I think that's why people love playing live now you 0:25:42.600 --> 0:25:45.879 were dropping in on these dates? What's your you know? 0:25:46.000 --> 0:25:48.320 Going on the road. There's a million songs. You know, 0:25:48.520 --> 0:25:51.880 the hour on stage pays for the other twenty three? 0:25:52.119 --> 0:25:55.280 Are you someone who likes the road? Who hates the roads? Done? 0:25:55.400 --> 0:25:59.840 Enough of the road? I've I love the two hours 0:25:59.840 --> 0:26:02.480 on stage that I play the last half an hour 0:26:02.600 --> 0:26:07.120 of But I am I'm past the road. Uh, I'm 0:26:07.400 --> 0:26:12.200 move have moved on to uh being a homebody here, 0:26:12.680 --> 0:26:15.440 and I still like to travel. I liked you know, 0:26:15.680 --> 0:26:19.720 but I've spent years on buses and uh have done 0:26:19.760 --> 0:26:23.280 the road thing. And uh as I'm getting not old 0:26:23.359 --> 0:26:26.639 but a little bit older here. Uh riding on a 0:26:26.680 --> 0:26:37.480 bus doing one night ors is a little heavy for me. Now, okay, 0:26:37.520 --> 0:26:40.359 you say you work at a snails Peace, go a 0:26:40.359 --> 0:26:43.840 little deeper. Why so slow? Why so slow? Because I'm 0:26:43.840 --> 0:26:47.520 a perfectionist and I know I know how to I 0:26:47.600 --> 0:26:51.840 pay attention to details. Now. The way the reason I 0:26:51.880 --> 0:26:56.600 got into details was when my first record date hit 0:26:56.640 --> 0:27:00.399 record was a song called Diamond Girl with Seals and Rofs, 0:27:01.080 --> 0:27:05.159 and Uh, I learned from Louis Shelton and Jimmy Seals 0:27:05.200 --> 0:27:10.159 specifically to not let anything go by, to make sure 0:27:10.240 --> 0:27:14.200 everything was just just right with either vocals or the 0:27:14.280 --> 0:27:18.080 rhythm track. And I'm talking about microscopic details that the 0:27:18.200 --> 0:27:21.639 normal listener would never pay attention to or notice. And 0:27:21.680 --> 0:27:25.880 this is how you get those clean layered records like 0:27:26.000 --> 0:27:29.240 Seals and Crops used to do. Steely Dan is another 0:27:29.280 --> 0:27:32.520 group that we learned from Jeffrey Carl and myself. We're 0:27:32.560 --> 0:27:36.719 paying attention watching them while they made Pretzel logic and 0:27:36.800 --> 0:27:42.720 Katie lied and they were they were so uh uh 0:27:42.880 --> 0:27:46.600 microscopic with all the details and the little ticks and 0:27:46.680 --> 0:27:49.159 pops in the tape and anything that would make a 0:27:49.200 --> 0:27:54.720 little sound. They were fanatical about having clean records. And uh, 0:27:54.840 --> 0:27:56.920 this is back in the analog days, so it was 0:27:56.920 --> 0:28:00.760 a little bit more of There was more had to 0:28:00.800 --> 0:28:04.920 be maintenance done with machines and cutting tape to edit 0:28:05.280 --> 0:28:07.560 and all these kind of things that they don't do anymore. 0:28:08.000 --> 0:28:10.840 But uh again back to your Wigan saying, well, I 0:28:10.920 --> 0:28:14.200 move moving to Snail's place because I like to take 0:28:14.240 --> 0:28:18.160 my time and uh, I cover a lot of details, 0:28:18.200 --> 0:28:19.960 but I also have a life here. I like to 0:28:19.960 --> 0:28:23.719 go out in the water my garden and uh I'd 0:28:23.800 --> 0:28:26.360 like to swim occasionally and ride my bike, and uh 0:28:26.600 --> 0:28:29.800 do things that to keep me in shape. So it's 0:28:29.800 --> 0:28:34.760 not just music. Your music used to be seven since 0:28:34.840 --> 0:28:38.160 I was ten years old up until you know, just 0:28:38.240 --> 0:28:42.800 recently when I started uh uh you know, just balancing 0:28:42.840 --> 0:28:47.200 my time. I think life. Life's a matter of balance. Okay, 0:28:47.280 --> 0:28:51.520 we know about Becker and Fagin. Tell me a little 0:28:51.520 --> 0:28:55.680 bit more about working with Louis Shelton. Louis Shelton was 0:28:55.800 --> 0:28:58.680 one of the great guitar players, session guitar players in town. 0:28:59.320 --> 0:29:02.560 He's right up with Dean Parks, Larry Carlton, one of 0:29:02.600 --> 0:29:05.160 those kind of guys. But he was the first real 0:29:05.840 --> 0:29:10.080 session guy that started producing music for people. So he 0:29:10.080 --> 0:29:12.920 would do it like a session guy would do it, 0:29:12.960 --> 0:29:17.160 which is to pay potential particular attention to these details. 0:29:17.240 --> 0:29:20.280 And uh he was I gained a relationship again on 0:29:20.320 --> 0:29:22.560 the Glen Campbell Show when I used to see him 0:29:22.560 --> 0:29:25.400 every Sunday, so I was familiar with jamming with him 0:29:25.440 --> 0:29:27.560 a little bit. But he was such a good record 0:29:27.600 --> 0:29:31.800 producer that uh he let me actually get my hands 0:29:31.840 --> 0:29:35.200 on the knobs and turn pan pots and turn echo 0:29:35.280 --> 0:29:39.400 knobs and turned faders and and actually uh taught me 0:29:39.640 --> 0:29:43.840 how to produce. So he was a huge mentor along 0:29:43.840 --> 0:29:46.800 with Jimmy Seals. Another thing I wanted to just back 0:29:46.880 --> 0:29:50.640 up for a second and mention about doing synthesizers and 0:29:50.760 --> 0:29:55.560 keyboards on on albums. Quincy Jones when we were doing Thriller. 0:29:55.760 --> 0:30:00.080 Quincy Jones said that doing synthesizers synth over dubs on 0:30:00.200 --> 0:30:05.240 Thriller was like painting a seven forty seven with a toothbrush. Okay, 0:30:05.400 --> 0:30:07.440 that gives you an ideal. That's why I take so 0:30:07.520 --> 0:30:11.120 much time making my records, Okay, because that's that's a 0:30:11.200 --> 0:30:14.840 kind of detail and a kind of it's a combination 0:30:14.840 --> 0:30:20.320 of science and music when you get into synthesizers and sonics. Really, 0:30:20.400 --> 0:30:24.160 you know, with engineers microphones, I have a good microphones here. 0:30:24.600 --> 0:30:28.800 I've got c C, I've got used forty seven's, I 0:30:28.960 --> 0:30:33.800 have uh telephone in two fifty, I've got cheps mics. 0:30:33.840 --> 0:30:36.080 So uh, you know, we're all trying to do this. 0:30:36.400 --> 0:30:38.760 Does does this need to be acoustic or it shouldn't 0:30:38.800 --> 0:30:43.040 be sampled? We're in that age right now. Okay. You 0:30:43.120 --> 0:30:46.960 talked about life balance. Was this a revelation at some 0:30:47.200 --> 0:30:50.000 point that man or you just said, I don't want 0:30:50.000 --> 0:30:54.160 to do that anymore? And what does this balance look like. Well, 0:30:53.800 --> 0:30:57.080 the balance came from my upbringing with my parents. My 0:30:57.160 --> 0:31:01.640 father was a jazz arranger and jazz pianists who became 0:31:01.680 --> 0:31:05.240 a big orchestrator and orchestral conductor for people like Ray 0:31:05.360 --> 0:31:10.600 Charles and Ella Fitzgerald and Barbra streisand and my mom 0:31:10.720 --> 0:31:14.600 was a bookkeeper. So they taught me there's got to 0:31:14.640 --> 0:31:17.040 be a balance in life here and made sure that 0:31:17.080 --> 0:31:18.840 I always was able to play a little bit of 0:31:18.840 --> 0:31:21.640 sports when I was growing up, as well as practice 0:31:21.680 --> 0:31:24.040 the piano. But they always wanted to make sure that 0:31:24.080 --> 0:31:26.480 I had a normal upbringing, you know, that it wasn't 0:31:26.560 --> 0:31:30.280 just all Hollywood and just all music music music. So 0:31:30.600 --> 0:31:33.840 I got that from my ingrained uh infused on my 0:31:34.000 --> 0:31:37.320 d n A from my folks. But uh, I think 0:31:37.360 --> 0:31:39.160 as I got older here, I think I had a 0:31:39.160 --> 0:31:42.320 couple of wake up calls that, uh let me know 0:31:42.400 --> 0:31:47.080 that the touring thing, I just wasn't able to uh 0:31:47.160 --> 0:31:51.200 keep up, uh physically with the touring thing, and I 0:31:51.280 --> 0:31:54.800 ended up suffering from fatigue and exhaustion and a little 0:31:54.800 --> 0:31:57.720 bit of depression and anxiety. And uh, those who were 0:31:57.800 --> 0:32:00.200 kind of all warring signs that I needed to try 0:32:00.200 --> 0:32:03.320 and hang up my road boots. Now you've only been 0:32:03.360 --> 0:32:06.680 married once, right, this is true. This is an unusual 0:32:06.720 --> 0:32:10.000 in this business too. That's why I'm asking why did 0:32:10.040 --> 0:32:13.720 your relationship sustain when so many don't. I think because 0:32:13.720 --> 0:32:16.480 my wife has a sense of humor about me. She 0:32:16.520 --> 0:32:20.280 doesn't take me seriously, I think, and we get along 0:32:20.360 --> 0:32:23.600 great and we keep laughing, and I think it's mutual respect. 0:32:24.160 --> 0:32:27.080 You know. She was a professional food stylist and used 0:32:27.080 --> 0:32:29.080 to go on location and I used to go in 0:32:29.160 --> 0:32:31.840 location when we first got married. So we'd meet up 0:32:31.880 --> 0:32:35.280 every once in a while to discuss our marriage a 0:32:35.440 --> 0:32:39.080 date and UH ended up just hitting it off immediately. 0:32:40.200 --> 0:32:45.400 So how did you actually meet her? Oh? Boy, I 0:32:45.440 --> 0:32:50.720 promised myself I'd never tell this story. Uh. I met 0:32:50.760 --> 0:32:56.040 on a blind date. Our engineer Greg Ladonni Uh was 0:32:56.080 --> 0:33:00.560 working with us and his wife was work with my 0:33:01.320 --> 0:33:05.800 uh with Lorraine, my soon to be wife, and so 0:33:05.840 --> 0:33:08.600 she set me up. She said, Greg, I've got a 0:33:08.680 --> 0:33:11.920 girl that David needs to go out with. So I 0:33:12.040 --> 0:33:16.640 hired a limousine and then she got cold feet, and 0:33:16.720 --> 0:33:19.280 so I invited my band because I was gonna take 0:33:19.320 --> 0:33:22.400 him to a fancy restaurant that I had invested in 0:33:22.680 --> 0:33:28.440 blah blah blah and uh the band. Lorraine decided she 0:33:28.480 --> 0:33:31.280 wanted to go on the on the on the date, 0:33:31.880 --> 0:33:34.880 so it caught me off guard. So my band showed 0:33:35.000 --> 0:33:38.320 up just before she showed up, and they ended up 0:33:38.320 --> 0:33:40.920 sitting in a limo and I sat in the front 0:33:40.960 --> 0:33:45.840 seat with my girlfriend Lorraine with the limo driver all 0:33:45.880 --> 0:33:48.440 the way to the restaurant. That was my first date experience, 0:33:48.720 --> 0:33:52.120 which was like, it couldn't be worse, but she made it. 0:33:52.240 --> 0:33:54.920 She was laughing the whole time. She thought it was hysterical. 0:33:55.400 --> 0:33:59.360 And that's why we're still married. And how often do 0:33:59.440 --> 0:34:02.480 you play? I try and play every day, and I 0:34:02.560 --> 0:34:05.400 just about do. I try and practice at least a 0:34:05.400 --> 0:34:08.680 half an hour a day, and uh sometimes I play 0:34:08.719 --> 0:34:11.960 a couple of hours at least, and I find that 0:34:12.000 --> 0:34:14.239 I need to, uh, even when I go on the road. 0:34:14.320 --> 0:34:18.760 I just got back from the Zurich Film Festival. Uh. 0:34:18.800 --> 0:34:21.080 And I always bring a little keyboard with me so 0:34:21.120 --> 0:34:24.359 I can practice in my room to to keep up 0:34:24.400 --> 0:34:26.719 my chops. Otherwise, if I go two or three days 0:34:26.719 --> 0:34:30.600 without playing, uh, I just everything starts tightening up a 0:34:30.680 --> 0:34:35.320 little bit. Okay, So you grew up in the valley 0:34:35.360 --> 0:34:40.440 where I grew up. I was born and raised in Rosita, 0:34:41.560 --> 0:34:45.640 and uh that's where my folks lived on Hesperian sati 0:34:45.719 --> 0:34:49.320 Quoi in the valley. And when they were five years old, 0:34:49.760 --> 0:34:53.640 my parents moved to Hidden Hills, which wasn't all fu 0:34:53.760 --> 0:34:56.280 food at the time, and it was just hardly anybody 0:34:56.480 --> 0:34:59.560 but pours people out there and my dad. They told 0:34:59.600 --> 0:35:02.520 my dad he had to get out of the valley 0:35:02.840 --> 0:35:06.080 and moved outside after the outskirts because he wasn't getting 0:35:06.200 --> 0:35:09.960 enough sleep, uh, writing arrangements and stuff. So it was 0:35:10.000 --> 0:35:13.600 for health reasons. He ventured out into the Hidden Hills area, 0:35:13.960 --> 0:35:16.839 which has become you know, the home of the Kardashians now. 0:35:17.080 --> 0:35:19.080 But that's where I lived. That's where I lived from 0:35:19.080 --> 0:35:23.239 five until one that when I entered college. And uh 0:35:23.400 --> 0:35:26.960 so that's that's how I grew up. That's where I 0:35:27.040 --> 0:35:29.880 was a valley boy, you know. And where do you 0:35:29.920 --> 0:35:36.799 live now? I live in Calabasas, I know, but I 0:35:36.920 --> 0:35:40.360 kind of where I grew up, right across the freeway 0:35:40.360 --> 0:35:43.840 from where I grew up, off a mahole and drive. Okay, 0:35:43.880 --> 0:35:46.920 when did you realize your father was a musician and 0:35:46.960 --> 0:35:52.600 when did you become interested fascinated by that. Uh when 0:35:53.080 --> 0:35:55.719 I went to my dad took us to a concert 0:35:55.760 --> 0:35:58.600 I think, and I think it was al Hurt who 0:35:58.640 --> 0:36:02.560 was playing trumpet, and they introduced my father in the 0:36:02.640 --> 0:36:05.120 audience at the Greek Theater and he stood up and 0:36:05.160 --> 0:36:07.279 took a bow. And that's when we did. That's when 0:36:07.280 --> 0:36:09.200 we knew that dad was something. Yeah, my dad used 0:36:09.200 --> 0:36:13.960 to get singled out because he was a very prolific arranger, 0:36:14.440 --> 0:36:16.319 and they would single him out and make him stand 0:36:16.400 --> 0:36:19.120 up and take bows whenever he was with somebody, like 0:36:19.480 --> 0:36:21.840 because he arranged for such so many of the greats. 0:36:22.120 --> 0:36:24.840 I mean, he ranged for Sinatra, He arranged for Sammy 0:36:24.920 --> 0:36:28.960 Davis Jr. Dean Martin, Ella Fantzgerald, Lena Horne, and the 0:36:29.000 --> 0:36:32.040 list goes on. You know, he was because he handled 0:36:32.040 --> 0:36:35.319 big orchestras. That's what his claim to fame was that 0:36:35.360 --> 0:36:40.000 he wrote classical style or string parts and orchestral music. 0:36:40.640 --> 0:36:44.359 Uh like take the take for instance, The Way We Were. 0:36:44.760 --> 0:36:48.920 My dad produced and arranged that record for Barbara Streisan. 0:36:49.600 --> 0:36:52.279 So he was he was pretty much of a icon 0:36:52.520 --> 0:36:55.520 and alleged you know, how did he get into it? 0:36:56.520 --> 0:37:02.120 Interesting question. His father was from Croatia originally and wanted 0:37:02.200 --> 0:37:04.520 him to be an accordion teacher. So he bought him 0:37:04.520 --> 0:37:07.239 an accordion when I think my dad was elect twelve 0:37:07.360 --> 0:37:10.120 years old and hopes that he would be an accordion teacher. 0:37:10.560 --> 0:37:13.120 And my dad loved jazz so much he started uh 0:37:13.960 --> 0:37:16.719 learning how to write music and learning how to play jazz, 0:37:17.280 --> 0:37:19.880 and UH ended up joining the Air Force ban in 0:37:19.920 --> 0:37:23.160 the army, which he still played accordion, believe it or not, 0:37:23.239 --> 0:37:25.279 in the jazz band. I have a picture of that, 0:37:25.719 --> 0:37:29.440 and uh uh he just kept at it, at it 0:37:29.520 --> 0:37:33.680 and then he finally UH went to USC and the 0:37:34.160 --> 0:37:37.279 l a conservatory of with by the way, which is 0:37:37.280 --> 0:37:40.160 because his colleagues at the time where John Williams and 0:37:40.160 --> 0:37:43.640 Andre Prevan. Uh, and he learned he got a master's 0:37:43.640 --> 0:37:49.759 degree in composition from USC, and UH learned how to 0:37:49.800 --> 0:37:54.680 write fugues and uh and uh all the classical training 0:37:54.719 --> 0:38:00.279 that he needed to UH launch into doing orchestras. So 0:38:00.320 --> 0:38:05.279 how many kids in the family my my family, I 0:38:05.320 --> 0:38:09.120 have one daughter, No, when you were growing up, brothers, sisters? 0:38:09.320 --> 0:38:12.839 I have one. I had one sister, one older sister. Okay, 0:38:13.200 --> 0:38:17.719 So at what point do you start taking lessons? I 0:38:17.760 --> 0:38:20.760 started taking lessons around eight years old, I started playing 0:38:20.760 --> 0:38:23.040 the piano, and it was about five I think my 0:38:23.120 --> 0:38:26.520 dad had done two versions of a song called Blues 0:38:26.560 --> 0:38:31.040 in the Night. My mom and then told him that 0:38:31.040 --> 0:38:33.560 that little riff right there was the first thing that 0:38:33.600 --> 0:38:35.719 I ever picked out on the piano, and my father 0:38:35.840 --> 0:38:38.279 noticed it. I think he was doing it for meltor May, 0:38:38.600 --> 0:38:41.200 either him or Elphitzgerald at the time. I think it 0:38:41.239 --> 0:38:44.680 was Meltormey though, and uh, I just picked that out 0:38:44.680 --> 0:38:48.200 on the piano. And then uh, I decided, after sitting 0:38:48.239 --> 0:38:50.920 next to Shelly Man and Louie Belson, I wanted to 0:38:50.920 --> 0:38:53.879 be a drummer when I was very young, about five 0:38:54.040 --> 0:38:56.719 six seven years old. So I get to use next 0:38:56.760 --> 0:39:00.960 to drummers like Shelley Man, Louie Belson and and uh 0:39:01.280 --> 0:39:03.560 uh my dad, I said, I wanted to do this 0:39:03.600 --> 0:39:06.279 for a living like my father, and I was only 0:39:06.320 --> 0:39:08.160 seven or eight, and he says, well, you're gonna have 0:39:08.200 --> 0:39:10.759 to start studying seriously if you really want to do that. 0:39:10.840 --> 0:39:13.680 So I started with my piano lessons at eight years old, 0:39:14.280 --> 0:39:18.400 and uh uh. When I got to be twelve, my 0:39:18.480 --> 0:39:20.480 dad says, now you've got to really take it seriously. 0:39:20.760 --> 0:39:22.640 I was playing little league at the time, and I 0:39:22.719 --> 0:39:25.520 was a catcher and uh he told me that I 0:39:25.520 --> 0:39:29.720 would end up hurt in my hands if I kept 0:39:29.760 --> 0:39:32.200 on doing a catcher because he had a cousin that 0:39:32.320 --> 0:39:35.520 was a professional catcher and he had all broken fingers 0:39:35.520 --> 0:39:39.720 and stuff. Anyway, I didn't want. I definitely uh nudged 0:39:39.760 --> 0:39:42.920 me to being a musician. And at thirteen I got 0:39:43.000 --> 0:39:47.759 a classical uh pianist teacher that trained me for the 0:39:47.800 --> 0:39:52.239 next four or five years. Uh and uh it gave 0:39:52.520 --> 0:39:55.640 me all my sound and technique. It really changed my life. 0:39:56.640 --> 0:40:00.719 So you're taking piano lessons, I how much are you 0:40:00.719 --> 0:40:03.040 putting into it? You know, I took piano lessons. The 0:40:03.040 --> 0:40:08.000 big thing was practicing and we didn't so right, well, 0:40:08.040 --> 0:40:10.400 not enough, you know, you go back the next week whatever. 0:40:10.960 --> 0:40:14.920 So what you know? You were dedicated. And what happened 0:40:14.960 --> 0:40:19.000 to the drums? The drums? Uh, I found out just 0:40:19.120 --> 0:40:22.920 another funny story, not funny to me, but funny. Uh. 0:40:23.239 --> 0:40:25.440 Louie Belson ended up giving my dad a set of 0:40:25.520 --> 0:40:29.040 drums to give to me. Okay, well, my father, who 0:40:29.080 --> 0:40:31.840 wanted me to be a piano player, not a drummer, 0:40:32.960 --> 0:40:35.360 never gave me the set of drums. I was supposed 0:40:35.360 --> 0:40:39.759 to get so okay, so when I never knew that 0:40:39.920 --> 0:40:41.600 all I had was a snare drum and a ride 0:40:41.600 --> 0:40:44.960 symbol from Louie Belson, which was to me, I was, 0:40:45.320 --> 0:40:48.160 I was in heaven. I was in paradise just with that. 0:40:48.719 --> 0:40:50.960 And I had a snare drum and a ride symbol 0:40:51.560 --> 0:40:58.520 Zilgian and uh because he figured that if push comes 0:40:58.560 --> 0:41:02.879 to shove, the only eye that gets hired. Uh, it's 0:41:02.880 --> 0:41:05.440 always the piano player. When they don't have a budget 0:41:05.480 --> 0:41:09.239 for anybody, you always see uh piano players and lounges 0:41:09.360 --> 0:41:12.799 and hotels and parties playing by themselves, which is what 0:41:12.920 --> 0:41:17.160 my dad did primarily before he became a professional jazz musician, 0:41:17.520 --> 0:41:19.680 was to go on the road and play for singers. 0:41:20.480 --> 0:41:25.600 Uh Dorothy Dandridge was he accompanied her, and uh Peggy 0:41:25.680 --> 0:41:29.560 Lee also and uh uh so he instilled in me 0:41:29.680 --> 0:41:32.840 that uh uh, he said, you don't want to be 0:41:34.280 --> 0:41:37.080 an old guy having to lug all your drums around. 0:41:37.320 --> 0:41:40.239 There's always a piano there. And now I told him, 0:41:40.280 --> 0:41:42.080 I remember I called him and said, Dad, now I 0:41:42.120 --> 0:41:44.160 have three and a half tons worth of gear. I 0:41:44.200 --> 0:41:47.319 got a transport from one stage to another, and the 0:41:47.360 --> 0:41:52.000 irony and that just uh, it just made us both laugh. Okay, 0:41:52.040 --> 0:41:54.279 you're a year younger than me, so we're essentially the 0:41:54.320 --> 0:41:56.239 same time. I'm growing up on the East Coast in 0:41:56.280 --> 0:41:59.040 the suburbs. You're in the heart of the action. So 0:41:59.080 --> 0:42:03.960 what do I remember? I remember the folk scene and 0:42:04.000 --> 0:42:07.840 then the surf and car scene, and then the Beatles 0:42:07.880 --> 0:42:10.839 came along and everybody formed bands. What was going on 0:42:10.960 --> 0:42:14.920 for you? I was playing drums at a surf band. 0:42:15.239 --> 0:42:18.560 I was eight years old, and uh doing wipe out, 0:42:18.560 --> 0:42:22.400 doing the solo to wipe out, and then um, I 0:42:22.480 --> 0:42:26.720 had a uh an epiphany. My dad did a record 0:42:27.120 --> 0:42:30.440 with Johnny Rivers called Poor Side of Town. It was 0:42:30.480 --> 0:42:33.680 Johnny rivers first hit single, and there was a piano 0:42:33.760 --> 0:42:36.520 player that played the track on it named Larry Nectel. 0:42:36.840 --> 0:42:38.440 Now I know he's not defamiliar with a lot of 0:42:38.440 --> 0:42:40.879 people out there, but he played the piano on Paul 0:42:40.920 --> 0:42:44.400 Simon's Bridge over Trouble Waters and he was the most 0:42:45.760 --> 0:42:51.080 incredibly talented new funky player I'd ever heard in my life. 0:42:51.320 --> 0:42:54.120 Brilliant player. I mean, if you hear a Bridge over 0:42:54.160 --> 0:42:56.560 Trouble Waters, you can see what kind of player this 0:42:56.600 --> 0:42:59.760 guy is. And he played on so many people's hit records. 0:43:00.080 --> 0:43:03.920 Also played bass on Uh You've lost that love and feeling, 0:43:04.560 --> 0:43:07.040 and uh, that was my epiphany as soon as I 0:43:07.120 --> 0:43:09.560 heard what he was playing, because he didn't play rock 0:43:09.600 --> 0:43:12.640 and roll like the older guys, jazz guys where they 0:43:12.640 --> 0:43:15.600 played the triplets up high. Uh, he was down on 0:43:15.640 --> 0:43:18.920 the last low two octaves of the piano, rolling it sound, 0:43:19.080 --> 0:43:21.440 so it sounded like a rhythm guitar. And I was 0:43:21.480 --> 0:43:25.680 just amazed by that. And I uh just gravitated towards 0:43:25.680 --> 0:43:29.040 that and started following and sitting next to him on 0:43:29.120 --> 0:43:33.240 sessions so I could steal everything that he knew. Okay, 0:43:33.440 --> 0:43:36.040 you're growing up when I was growing up at the 0:43:36.080 --> 0:43:39.840 same time, had the transistor under the pillow. But you 0:43:39.920 --> 0:43:43.520 were in Hollywood. You know, to what degree were you 0:43:43.600 --> 0:43:47.400 a fan of popular music listening on the radio, dedicated 0:43:47.440 --> 0:43:49.880 or it was more about playing sports. What was it like? 0:43:50.080 --> 0:43:54.320 I was credibly submerged in music. My dad was working 0:43:54.320 --> 0:43:58.000 with great artists. I was just taken by all the 0:43:58.120 --> 0:44:01.440 artists at the time. I love folk rock, I love country, 0:44:01.960 --> 0:44:05.879 I love classical stuff. Uh. I loved all the music 0:44:05.920 --> 0:44:07.879 at the time, especially the Beatles. I'm still a huge 0:44:07.880 --> 0:44:11.960 Beatles fan and a Rolling Stones fan, and uh to 0:44:12.080 --> 0:44:16.040 this day. Uh again, like you said, we kind of 0:44:16.120 --> 0:44:19.360 dropped off the surf music dropped off, and we started 0:44:19.360 --> 0:44:22.320 wanting to play in bands that were playing Jimmy Hendricks 0:44:22.360 --> 0:44:27.600 and the Beatles and uh uh traffic kind of songs 0:44:27.880 --> 0:44:30.360 I play. I got a band that we did nothing 0:44:30.360 --> 0:44:34.040 but traffic and Hendrick songs. So uh, I was an 0:44:34.120 --> 0:44:37.480 interesting combination. It is, it is, but those are the 0:44:37.560 --> 0:44:39.600 kind of songs that we did. That was back in 0:44:39.640 --> 0:44:43.120 the day. You know, you'd see how sly Stone on 0:44:43.160 --> 0:44:47.160 a bill with Hendricks and Chicago the Stadium, you know, 0:44:47.560 --> 0:44:50.200 so that was kind of they were more diverse back 0:44:50.239 --> 0:44:53.080 then when it comes to putting acts together, I think. 0:44:53.560 --> 0:44:58.239 And because my dad was required listening, he was he 0:44:58.520 --> 0:45:01.400 got all these free records all the time because he 0:45:01.480 --> 0:45:05.319 was doing TV shows and they'd give him a not 0:45:05.480 --> 0:45:10.239 for sale um demo demonstration record and uh, so I 0:45:10.280 --> 0:45:14.920 was listening to the Beatles before people were, and uh uh, 0:45:15.080 --> 0:45:18.160 people like Glenn Campbell I was. My dad was friends 0:45:18.160 --> 0:45:20.359 with all the Wrecking Crew, so I used to sit 0:45:20.480 --> 0:45:22.720 next to those guys all the time, and the Wrecking 0:45:22.760 --> 0:45:25.840 Crew individually. But my dad never really used the Wrecking Crew, 0:45:26.040 --> 0:45:28.919 but he did use um Lou Adler put a version 0:45:28.960 --> 0:45:33.319 of the Wrecking Crew together which was Hal Blaine, Joe Osborne, 0:45:33.600 --> 0:45:37.520 Larry Nicktol, and Tommy Tedesco along with John Phillips and 0:45:37.560 --> 0:45:39.920 there these were made up of all the moms and 0:45:40.000 --> 0:45:43.680 Papa's records which my dad started to arrange strings for. 0:45:44.400 --> 0:45:46.880 He did Johnny. He was doing Johnny Rivers at the 0:45:46.920 --> 0:45:49.799 time that he did The Fifth Dimension, which is where 0:45:49.800 --> 0:45:54.080 I met. This goes into my songwriting beginning, which as 0:45:54.120 --> 0:45:56.520 I met Jimmy Webb when I was ten and Jimmy 0:45:56.560 --> 0:45:59.680 Webb was seventeen and had a huge influence on me 0:46:00.000 --> 0:46:02.759 when he was doing the first Fifth Dimension album and 0:46:03.000 --> 0:46:07.560 uh uh to this day, Uh again, Uh, that's where 0:46:07.560 --> 0:46:11.080 I started getting into songwriting and wanting to become a songwriter. 0:46:11.600 --> 0:46:13.879 And right after that, Elton John's first album came out, 0:46:13.880 --> 0:46:16.200 and I just it's just opened the whole door for me. 0:46:16.360 --> 0:46:26.920 You know, when did you actually start writing songs and 0:46:26.960 --> 0:46:29.919 how frequently and how good were they? I started writing 0:46:29.920 --> 0:46:33.520 when I was about thirteen. I think it was about 0:46:33.560 --> 0:46:36.880 the time the first Elton John song came out and 0:46:37.000 --> 0:46:40.319 I started, uh trying to imitate him all my first 0:46:40.320 --> 0:46:43.319 songs were horrible, you know. They were just imitations of 0:46:43.360 --> 0:46:49.640 Elton John's first album, The King Must Die. Uh yeah, 0:46:49.640 --> 0:46:54.680 I love that record, and uh uh. I wasn't writing 0:46:54.719 --> 0:46:57.120 too often because again I was a little bit slow, 0:46:57.239 --> 0:47:00.520 but I liked I I really wanted to do to 0:47:00.640 --> 0:47:05.400 be Elton John and to perform on piano and write 0:47:05.440 --> 0:47:08.400 songs like that. And I just kept at it, you know, uh, 0:47:08.640 --> 0:47:11.359 writing bad song after bad song. Of course, they were 0:47:11.360 --> 0:47:14.040 incredible to me because I was trying to trying to 0:47:14.080 --> 0:47:18.520 be like Elton. Uh. But I was going to an 0:47:18.560 --> 0:47:22.239 all boys prep school at the time called Shamanad, which 0:47:22.239 --> 0:47:24.799 people will probably know in the area. It was an 0:47:24.800 --> 0:47:27.560 all boys school, and I had short hair and horm 0:47:27.600 --> 0:47:29.759 waring glass. It's kind of like Elton you see on 0:47:29.760 --> 0:47:32.520 it in his pictures, so I could really really relate 0:47:32.560 --> 0:47:39.520 to him also as a as a dude. And uh uh. 0:47:39.560 --> 0:47:42.759 I just started writing and trying writing and writing, and 0:47:42.800 --> 0:47:45.960 then I wrote a song. Uh. My daddy started doing 0:47:46.000 --> 0:47:50.520 the Glenn Campbell's show at about seventy one, I think, 0:47:51.239 --> 0:47:53.840 and I wrote a song. My first hit record was 0:47:53.880 --> 0:47:57.480 semi hit record was a country western song called Houston, 0:47:57.760 --> 0:48:00.840 I'm Coming to see you, and it was Glenn Campbell 0:48:01.040 --> 0:48:05.319 made a title track on his album, and so that 0:48:05.400 --> 0:48:09.959 gave me the confidence to keep writing and to keep 0:48:10.440 --> 0:48:13.480 at it. Okay, a little bit slower. How did you 0:48:13.560 --> 0:48:16.120 write that song? How did it get in front of 0:48:16.440 --> 0:48:18.520 Glenn Campbell? And how did you feel when he did 0:48:18.600 --> 0:48:24.359 cut it? Okay, good questions. Uh again, My my dad 0:48:24.440 --> 0:48:28.439 was doing the Glenn Campbell's show. Jimmy Webb had been 0:48:28.440 --> 0:48:33.200 writing all of Glenn's uh uh hit records, which had 0:48:33.239 --> 0:48:38.880 to do with by the time I get to Phoenix, Galveston, Wichita, Lineman, 0:48:38.960 --> 0:48:41.920 all these city songs. So I thought, well, I'll just 0:48:42.000 --> 0:48:44.799 do I'll just follow along Jimmy Webb's lines and write 0:48:44.800 --> 0:48:47.400 a song called Houston. And so I made up a 0:48:47.440 --> 0:48:50.080 little ditty and if you get a chance, you listen 0:48:50.160 --> 0:48:52.160 to it, you'll see how I'm kind of trying to 0:48:52.440 --> 0:48:55.400 be like Jimmy Webb on it. And then my father, 0:48:55.920 --> 0:48:58.960 unbeknownst to me, was so impressed with it, and I 0:48:59.000 --> 0:49:01.359 just did it. I had a little Revox two track 0:49:01.600 --> 0:49:03.680 it would be belonging to my father where you could 0:49:03.680 --> 0:49:06.640 do sound on sound and you could overdub with it. 0:49:07.080 --> 0:49:10.920 So my father snagged the tape and you played it 0:49:10.960 --> 0:49:14.040 for Glenn Campbell, just my little rough demo that I 0:49:14.080 --> 0:49:17.600 would have never in a million years played anybody to 0:49:17.680 --> 0:49:20.160 this day. And Glenn said he liked it and he 0:49:20.160 --> 0:49:23.000 wanted to cut it, and I just I was taken aback. 0:49:23.040 --> 0:49:26.840 I was just flabbergasted, you know that we he actually 0:49:26.880 --> 0:49:29.839 wanted to do my song. So immediately I'm thinking, well, 0:49:29.880 --> 0:49:32.400 we gotta get how blamed Joe Osborne and the Cracking 0:49:32.440 --> 0:49:35.239 Crew guys cut my song? Like you know, I thought 0:49:35.280 --> 0:49:38.319 I was one of the wrecking Crew myself, you know 0:49:38.400 --> 0:49:41.480 at the time, And uh, that started it all for me. 0:49:41.640 --> 0:49:44.600 Got on a station, now checked this out. There was 0:49:44.600 --> 0:49:48.160 this country western station, uh I used to listen to 0:49:48.200 --> 0:49:51.239 when I was going to USC called K Barbecue. How's 0:49:51.280 --> 0:49:54.200 that for a radio station? K b b Q, And 0:49:54.520 --> 0:49:58.000 they played it all the time. Did you ever get 0:49:58.000 --> 0:50:01.720 paid for it? Sure did. I got a Union's double 0:50:01.760 --> 0:50:05.160 scale and I got uh, I got some royalties. I 0:50:05.200 --> 0:50:09.240 also won publishing award that year, uh for the most 0:50:09.239 --> 0:50:13.360 played Songs as CAP award I think I got. And 0:50:13.440 --> 0:50:17.920 I got flown to Nashville and met Roy Clark and 0:50:18.160 --> 0:50:22.960 uh all the the big country stars there. What do 0:50:23.040 --> 0:50:25.879 you do with the money. What I do with the money? Uh? 0:50:25.920 --> 0:50:29.359 Put it toward a car. Well that's what I figured, Yeah, 0:50:29.800 --> 0:50:32.560 put it called all all my money. All my money 0:50:32.560 --> 0:50:36.320 came from bar Mitzvah's weddings and that song, but mainly 0:50:36.400 --> 0:50:40.880 bar Mitzvah's and weddings for four years, all all to 0:50:40.960 --> 0:50:45.040 pay for a car. What was the car? Ultimately it 0:50:45.080 --> 0:50:48.879 was an Econoline Van three hundred. Because of course I'm 0:50:48.880 --> 0:50:50.799 a keyboard player. I have to be able to be 0:50:50.880 --> 0:50:55.200 able to fit Fender Rhodes or Hammond Oregon to to 0:50:55.239 --> 0:50:58.240 get to the gig. So I bought an Econoline three hundred. 0:50:58.760 --> 0:51:02.440 Now the interesting part about this stories. I used to 0:51:02.440 --> 0:51:04.759 go on the road with Sonny and Share and I 0:51:04.800 --> 0:51:08.480 would park. My parents had another ranch up in santy 0:51:08.560 --> 0:51:13.839 Andez Valley, and uh uh, I used to keep my 0:51:13.920 --> 0:51:16.440 van at the ranch when I go on the road 0:51:16.480 --> 0:51:19.680 with Sunny and Share for six weeks or seals and crops. 0:51:19.719 --> 0:51:22.680 I tour with them and I came back off the 0:51:22.760 --> 0:51:25.759 road one day and my van was gone, and I said, 0:51:26.239 --> 0:51:28.600 what where's my van? And my dad said, I sold it? 0:51:29.239 --> 0:51:31.000 And I and and I said, what do you mean 0:51:31.040 --> 0:51:34.200 you sold it? He goes, it's on my property. He goes, uh, 0:51:34.200 --> 0:51:37.000 it's mine. When it's on my property, it's my dad 0:51:37.160 --> 0:51:41.000 who was like he was like a junk collector also, 0:51:41.520 --> 0:51:43.760 and uh he said, yeah, it was on my property. 0:51:43.800 --> 0:51:45.279 So I sold it. I said, well, how much money 0:51:45.280 --> 0:51:47.680 did you get for it? He said fifteen hundred dollars. 0:51:47.760 --> 0:51:49.319 I said, what did you do with the money? He said, 0:51:49.320 --> 0:51:53.360 I spent it, you know, and and it uh uh, 0:51:53.400 --> 0:51:58.600 it's just solidified our our relationship so much more. That 0:51:58.719 --> 0:52:05.160 sounds like a bad Sorry it is. It isastic. I'm 0:52:05.200 --> 0:52:09.319 being sarcastic right now, trying to be okay. So your 0:52:09.360 --> 0:52:13.040 relationship with your father was not good as you got older, well, 0:52:13.239 --> 0:52:15.520 you know it was. I always had a great relationship 0:52:15.560 --> 0:52:17.560 with my father, him and I. I used to get 0:52:17.560 --> 0:52:20.320 to work with him. I was his like his wingman 0:52:21.080 --> 0:52:24.080 on sessions. I started out as a pencil sharp there, 0:52:24.160 --> 0:52:26.319 which would be and Joseph Williams talk about this all 0:52:26.360 --> 0:52:28.719 the time. He did the same thing I did with 0:52:28.800 --> 0:52:31.319 his dad, John Williams, which was all we did was 0:52:31.640 --> 0:52:34.480 sharpen our dad's pencils when we were allowed in the 0:52:34.560 --> 0:52:38.239 room with him to listen to them writing music because 0:52:38.239 --> 0:52:41.120 it was very little music being played on piano. Most 0:52:41.120 --> 0:52:44.319 of it was writing between his father and my father. Well, 0:52:44.680 --> 0:52:46.640 let me know the so I'll talk about the relationship 0:52:46.640 --> 0:52:49.040 with your father, but let's just move on. You play 0:52:49.040 --> 0:52:51.640 in that band with wipe out and drums at eight, 0:52:52.320 --> 0:52:55.160 the Beatles hit, When the Beatles hit, When you're ten, 0:52:56.000 --> 0:53:00.759 At what point do you start playing in bands? I 0:53:00.880 --> 0:53:03.560 started playing and balanced, well, look again, the first band 0:53:03.600 --> 0:53:06.200 I was on drums. Okay, that's my surf band thing. 0:53:06.520 --> 0:53:09.480 But then I started getting There wasn't any really electric 0:53:09.520 --> 0:53:14.000 piano instruments, so I started playing acoustic piano when everybody 0:53:14.000 --> 0:53:16.839 else had electric guitars and bass. I was playing an 0:53:16.920 --> 0:53:22.000 up spin it's spinet pianos at dances for schools and 0:53:22.040 --> 0:53:25.959 stuff like that. I must have been eleven eleven years 0:53:26.000 --> 0:53:30.120 old when I started playing in bands with acoustic piano. 0:53:30.719 --> 0:53:33.600 Of course, you couldn't hear me, so we'd always put 0:53:33.600 --> 0:53:36.600 a vocal mic into another channel in the amplifier and 0:53:36.640 --> 0:53:38.640 stick it down in the piano so you could hear 0:53:38.680 --> 0:53:41.120 the piano, which I think a lot of piano players 0:53:41.160 --> 0:53:43.360 had to do that at that time because there was 0:53:43.400 --> 0:53:47.400 no Fender Rhods yet. But then it's a life changing 0:53:47.520 --> 0:53:52.480 situation happened. My dad got me a Fender Rhodes and 0:53:52.640 --> 0:53:54.360 that just all of a sudden, I was able to 0:53:54.400 --> 0:53:58.400 be joining a band. That's when you saw Kate Ja 0:53:58.520 --> 0:54:00.600 giving away all that Fender gear and they were giving 0:54:00.600 --> 0:54:03.520 away Fender pianos. When my dad happened to know someone 0:54:03.600 --> 0:54:06.440 that had an adornment, which was Louis Belson, the drummer, 0:54:06.840 --> 0:54:11.320 and uh, I got a Fender Rhodes. And shortly after 0:54:11.520 --> 0:54:15.239 that was when my dad did the Glenn Campbell show 0:54:15.320 --> 0:54:18.880 and he he hired Joe Pracaro. No, this is no 0:54:19.040 --> 0:54:22.400 Lie hired him. Uh, and he just Joe had just 0:54:22.440 --> 0:54:27.080 moved out from Connecticut and Joe Pracaro's son was Jeff Pricaro, 0:54:27.160 --> 0:54:31.680 and Jeff's band, which is called the Merciful Souls, had 0:54:31.760 --> 0:54:34.480 just won the Battle of the Band's contest in the 0:54:34.600 --> 0:54:37.520 Valley in the San Fernando Valley and they just lost 0:54:37.560 --> 0:54:41.239 their piano player. I think he passed away, and Joe says, 0:54:41.239 --> 0:54:44.240 they're looking for a piano player, you should get together 0:54:44.280 --> 0:54:47.480 with my son and arranged for us to switch numbers. 0:54:47.920 --> 0:54:50.319 And that's when I met Jeff Pricaro when I was 0:54:50.360 --> 0:54:53.839 like fourteen and a half fifteen years old, and uh 0:54:53.880 --> 0:54:58.240 we became best friends and I played with him ever since. Okay, 0:54:58.239 --> 0:55:02.400 So those bands that you play did bar mitzvah parties, etcetera. 0:55:02.640 --> 0:55:05.879 That was with the poor Karo Brothers. No, those are 0:55:05.920 --> 0:55:10.239 different bands. There were the Shermer brothers and Dan Holtzman 0:55:10.600 --> 0:55:15.320 and his brother and these were specific, specific bar Mitzvah 0:55:15.600 --> 0:55:18.239 wedding bands, like the weddings like when you see the 0:55:18.239 --> 0:55:20.879 movie the Wedding Singer. Well, that's why these bands were. 0:55:20.960 --> 0:55:23.080 But all the musicians of the bands were like that. 0:55:23.360 --> 0:55:25.680 So I was a little bit. I was a better 0:55:25.760 --> 0:55:28.440 musician than the guys in most of the bands. But 0:55:28.520 --> 0:55:30.600 every once in a while a good drummer would come 0:55:30.600 --> 0:55:34.719 in and we'd started taking freedoms with the songs and 0:55:34.760 --> 0:55:37.200 turning them into jazz songs and everything like that. So 0:55:37.600 --> 0:55:39.600 I got a lot of experience. I got a lot 0:55:39.600 --> 0:55:44.439 of time, a chance to play different standards and learn 0:55:44.480 --> 0:55:49.279 how to, uh basically play weddings and bar mitzvah's. And 0:55:49.360 --> 0:55:55.360 how often did you play? I did about two, three, 0:55:55.600 --> 0:56:02.959 between five and six uh engagements every weekend for four years. Wow. Yeah, 0:56:03.120 --> 0:56:08.960 two engagements a day. Wow. Okay, So that was work, 0:56:09.160 --> 0:56:14.600 although you're gaining skills. What about playing traffic? Playing Hendrix? 0:56:14.680 --> 0:56:16.840 Was that with the procrlos? Where who's that with? That 0:56:16.920 --> 0:56:19.080 was with the perk Carlo's that's and and also I 0:56:19.160 --> 0:56:21.960 had there was an intermediate band before I met Jeff. 0:56:22.440 --> 0:56:24.279 Uh there was in a band with a guy named 0:56:24.360 --> 0:56:28.440 Dan Ferguson, who's uh one of our best friends and 0:56:28.680 --> 0:56:32.000 credible guitarist, and him and I started a band together 0:56:32.080 --> 0:56:35.400 with another singer and we all brought a drummer in 0:56:35.600 --> 0:56:38.640 from Canoga High I think, and we started doing Hendricks 0:56:38.680 --> 0:56:43.680 songs and Traffic songs. Uh. For there's a in hitting Hills. 0:56:43.719 --> 0:56:46.200 There was a place called the Hitting Hills Pool and 0:56:46.200 --> 0:56:48.600 they used to have dances there and we got the 0:56:48.600 --> 0:56:51.319 gig playing a dance at the pool. So we had 0:56:51.320 --> 0:56:53.719 a stinger who had a strobe believe it or not, 0:56:53.840 --> 0:56:56.200 had a microphone and a strobe light, which is why 0:56:56.239 --> 0:57:00.440 we hired him. Okay and uh uh it turned out 0:57:00.440 --> 0:57:04.040 to be a incredible gig and uh uh this time 0:57:04.080 --> 0:57:07.000 went on uh and we broke up kind of in 0:57:07.080 --> 0:57:10.560 high school. And that's just when I met Jeff. So 0:57:10.640 --> 0:57:14.040 did you ever meet her? Works with Stevie Winwood? I 0:57:14.160 --> 0:57:17.040 met him one time on the phone. No, I met him. 0:57:17.080 --> 0:57:19.360 I met him, also met him. Uh. They were doing 0:57:19.440 --> 0:57:22.880 a tribute to Mike Yamaha did a Mike McDonald I 0:57:22.920 --> 0:57:26.480 think tribute, and I think Stevie Winwood was there and 0:57:26.520 --> 0:57:28.520 I got to meet him. But Jim Horne, there's a 0:57:28.600 --> 0:57:31.360 very famous saxophone player who I met when I was 0:57:31.400 --> 0:57:35.200 twelve years old, very famous guy named Jim Horne who's 0:57:35.200 --> 0:57:38.040 played with the Beatles, He's played with Clapton and the Stones. 0:57:38.480 --> 0:57:45.160 Everybody knows Jim Horne. Well, uh uh. He introduced He said, 0:57:46.400 --> 0:57:48.920 I want to someone's gonna call you today. And I 0:57:48.960 --> 0:57:52.280 was in Nashville, Jim, and the phone rang and it 0:57:52.360 --> 0:57:55.000 was Jim. It was Stevie Winwood on the phone because 0:57:55.000 --> 0:57:56.960 he knew I was a Stevie Winwood fan, and he 0:57:57.000 --> 0:57:59.640 had introduced himself to me on the phone. And I 0:57:59.720 --> 0:58:02.040 just I was in heaven. I was just like I 0:58:02.080 --> 0:58:05.200 was walking on clouds, you know, because Stevie Winwood was 0:58:05.200 --> 0:58:08.200 a big, big influence on me. And when you played 0:58:08.200 --> 0:58:10.520 with the Porcaro's, did you ever play for money or 0:58:10.560 --> 0:58:13.480 were you just playing in the garage. We were at 0:58:13.520 --> 0:58:16.040 the first time, we were playing in the garage. But 0:58:17.600 --> 0:58:19.800 there's an old joke that says, how do you want 0:58:19.920 --> 0:58:22.440 how do you get a band to get together and play? 0:58:22.760 --> 0:58:25.200 You find? Get him a gig, you know. So they 0:58:25.200 --> 0:58:27.480 were rehearsing for a gig at the time. We were 0:58:27.560 --> 0:58:29.520 learning all these songs. So they had to teach me 0:58:29.880 --> 0:58:32.440 all the new songs, which are mainly blood, Sweat and 0:58:32.480 --> 0:58:37.920 Tears songs, Uh, Buddy Miles songs and sly and the 0:58:37.920 --> 0:58:41.600 family's own songs, you know. And Uh, I brought in 0:58:41.600 --> 0:58:43.280 a little bit more of the rock and roll stuff. 0:58:43.440 --> 0:58:46.560 I brought in the Rolling Stones, Give Me Shelter and 0:58:46.760 --> 0:58:49.280 three Dog Night, and that's what kind of stuff I 0:58:49.320 --> 0:58:54.439 was listening to. Okay, many musicians in that era did 0:58:54.480 --> 0:58:56.560 not go to college. How did you end up going 0:58:56.560 --> 0:59:02.160 to college? And did you finish? My dad went to college, 0:59:02.280 --> 0:59:04.000 and I had a long talk with my dad, dad 0:59:04.040 --> 0:59:07.920 should I go to college? And he goes, He told me, 0:59:07.960 --> 0:59:12.360 he says, that's a good question. He goes, Musically, I'm fine. 0:59:12.440 --> 0:59:17.120 I'm gonna be fine musically. But he says his advice 0:59:17.160 --> 0:59:19.680 to me was, you're gonna go to college one day, 0:59:20.040 --> 0:59:23.120 and that one day you're gonna learn something that's gonna 0:59:23.200 --> 0:59:25.640 change your life and be with you for the rest 0:59:25.680 --> 0:59:28.440 of your life. And so I just took his advice. 0:59:28.520 --> 0:59:30.720 I had total faith in my father, and I went 0:59:30.760 --> 0:59:33.960 to USC for two and a half years, and in fact, 0:59:34.080 --> 0:59:38.160 there was a day came when they taught modulation UH 0:59:38.200 --> 0:59:42.320 in USC, which is how to modulate from transition from 0:59:42.360 --> 0:59:44.720 one key to another key. Well, I found out that 0:59:44.760 --> 0:59:48.360 you have six six different possibilities because you have three 0:59:48.680 --> 0:59:50.760 three notes on the left hand, three notes on the 0:59:50.840 --> 0:59:54.560 right hand, and for chords, actually four notes on each hand, 0:59:54.880 --> 0:59:58.320 so you can uh pivot between any of those sent 0:59:58.440 --> 1:00:02.200 four or eight notes as far as changing keys. So 1:00:02.560 --> 1:00:04.640 I've used it to this day and as far as 1:00:04.640 --> 1:00:09.080 my songwriting. That's why I'm able to uh navigate through 1:00:09.200 --> 1:00:12.880 the song structures and always find something interesting to do 1:00:13.160 --> 1:00:16.720 because I know how to pivot and modulate into uh 1:00:16.840 --> 1:00:20.520 lots of different keys. Why did you drop out? And 1:00:20.560 --> 1:00:25.600 then what do you do? Uh? I started stopped attending 1:00:25.640 --> 1:00:27.600 classes because I was on the road too much. I 1:00:27.640 --> 1:00:31.400 was I was conducting for Sunny and Share and unfortunately 1:00:31.440 --> 1:00:35.320 they didn't have any internship program at USC. I mean, 1:00:35.360 --> 1:00:37.640 I told him and I asked me how much money 1:00:37.680 --> 1:00:40.520 I was making and I was making twice as much 1:00:40.560 --> 1:00:43.360 as the teachers, so they kind of got a little 1:00:43.400 --> 1:00:46.400 bugged at that. And then I always thought you didn't 1:00:46.400 --> 1:00:48.280 have as long as you took the test, you could 1:00:48.320 --> 1:00:51.240 pass college. Well, they started marking me down for attendance 1:00:51.560 --> 1:00:54.280 because I was I was on the charts. I was 1:00:54.800 --> 1:00:57.400 working with Seals and Crofts and Sunny and Share and 1:00:57.600 --> 1:01:00.840 doing professional gigs. But they they they I might as 1:01:00.840 --> 1:01:03.840 well be playing billiards at a pool hall where all 1:01:03.880 --> 1:01:06.320 they cared at the time. There. You know, I'm sure 1:01:06.360 --> 1:01:08.800 it's changed now because they have a thought in school 1:01:08.800 --> 1:01:12.240 of music and they have movie sound stages and they 1:01:12.280 --> 1:01:15.680 teach record production. But all that was that was like 1:01:15.760 --> 1:01:20.080 joining the circus at the time. So how did you 1:01:20.240 --> 1:01:22.640 first get these road gigs and who did it start 1:01:22.640 --> 1:01:25.320 with and who did it evolved too. My first road 1:01:25.360 --> 1:01:30.400 gig was with Sunny and Share, and funnily enough, Jeff 1:01:30.480 --> 1:01:33.360 Ricaro had just gotten the gig before I did. So 1:01:33.480 --> 1:01:36.000 Jeff was the first guy, and he left high school early, 1:01:36.280 --> 1:01:39.400 didn't graduate high school. He went back and got his diploma, 1:01:39.760 --> 1:01:41.480 but he left high school early to go on the 1:01:41.560 --> 1:01:44.160 road with Sunny and Share, and they were huge at 1:01:44.200 --> 1:01:47.040 the time. They were like, how did you get the gig? 1:01:47.560 --> 1:01:53.600 I got the gig because my dad ended up Sonny Bono. 1:01:53.680 --> 1:01:58.680 They called my dad to arrange a song for Shares album. 1:01:59.160 --> 1:02:03.200 I believe he was producing, and he'd heard about Marty Page. 1:02:03.240 --> 1:02:05.320 He knew Marty Page, and he asked him to arrange 1:02:05.320 --> 1:02:07.880 a couple of songs. Well, my dad dad hired me, 1:02:08.240 --> 1:02:11.520 which something he rarely did back then, hired me to 1:02:11.720 --> 1:02:15.400 play on this song, and Sonny Bono heard me and 1:02:15.440 --> 1:02:20.800 really flipped out over my plane. So Jeffercarlo calls Sonny 1:02:20.920 --> 1:02:23.640 and says, I have the new keyboard player for you, 1:02:24.040 --> 1:02:27.080 and Sonny goes, let's tell that guy to stand down. 1:02:27.320 --> 1:02:29.560 I just found a new keyboard player. So when I 1:02:29.560 --> 1:02:32.760 showed up at Jeff's house, Sonny Bono showed up and 1:02:32.800 --> 1:02:35.520 he goes, here's the new keyboard player. And Jeff goes, well, 1:02:35.560 --> 1:02:38.360 that's the guy just joined my band. Right there. It 1:02:38.440 --> 1:02:40.600 was I was the same guy. And that's how I 1:02:40.600 --> 1:02:44.400 got the gig because Sonny hired me and Jeff recommended 1:02:44.480 --> 1:02:46.800 him to me. So how long did you work with 1:02:46.880 --> 1:02:49.520 Sonny and chair? What was that like? That was probably 1:02:49.520 --> 1:02:54.440 about three years. That was fantastic. Uh, they had private 1:02:54.520 --> 1:02:57.160 jets at the time, and uh, believe it or not, 1:02:57.200 --> 1:02:59.760 I came right out of all boys high school and 1:03:00.000 --> 1:03:02.640 the jet that they hired was the Hugh Hefner Playboy Jet. 1:03:03.240 --> 1:03:06.880 So so it was like, uh, put put us in 1:03:06.920 --> 1:03:09.040 a in a candy shop, you know what I mean? 1:03:09.560 --> 1:03:11.880 And uh I was on the road with him for 1:03:11.920 --> 1:03:13.959 three years. But this is they go on the road 1:03:14.040 --> 1:03:16.760 for six weeks and then come back for three months. 1:03:16.880 --> 1:03:18.920 Go on the road for six weeks, come back for 1:03:18.960 --> 1:03:20.680 three months, that kind of thing. But we did a 1:03:20.680 --> 1:03:23.800 little time in Vegas. I was a musical conductor at 1:03:23.800 --> 1:03:26.360 the Sahara Hotel. My main name was up on the 1:03:26.400 --> 1:03:30.440 Marquee and I was about nineteen years old. And uh 1:03:30.760 --> 1:03:35.960 uh that's my sunny and share experience. Okay, were you 1:03:36.040 --> 1:03:41.040 taking were you partaking of the fruits of the road. Well, 1:03:41.160 --> 1:03:43.600 funny you should mention that, Bob, because I just I 1:03:43.640 --> 1:03:45.640 had to send a sign an n d A before 1:03:45.680 --> 1:03:49.120 I did your program today that forbids me to talk 1:03:49.160 --> 1:03:53.280 about any rock and roll mischief during that time. Okay, 1:03:54.000 --> 1:03:57.040 Well that would imply that you did partake in rock 1:03:57.080 --> 1:04:00.040 and roll. We had a couple of cups of coffee 1:04:00.080 --> 1:04:03.080 and uh Uh. Like I said, there was the eighties, 1:04:03.120 --> 1:04:07.400 seventies and eighties and uh uh, we'll just leave it 1:04:07.440 --> 1:04:12.840 at that. Okay. So, uh, you're working with Sonny and Share, 1:04:13.680 --> 1:04:16.640 they're working like you know once every couple of months. 1:04:17.120 --> 1:04:20.120 Are you doing any sessions or you just going to school? 1:04:20.120 --> 1:04:23.760 How do you start doing sessions? I'm uh once I did. 1:04:24.480 --> 1:04:28.000 I was going to school. They were even flying me 1:04:28.000 --> 1:04:30.280 in to go to school because they wanted me to 1:04:30.360 --> 1:04:32.520 keep me and my dad says, well, he's going to school. 1:04:32.640 --> 1:04:34.880 They said, we'll fly him into USC So I go 1:04:34.920 --> 1:04:40.000 to school once a week on their ticket, and uh 1:04:40.000 --> 1:04:42.840 what happened. Then the big day came when I did 1:04:43.000 --> 1:04:46.000 Diamond Girl for Louis Shelton. And as soon as that 1:04:46.080 --> 1:04:48.360 became a hit record and there's a there, you can 1:04:48.400 --> 1:04:50.600 pretty much here my piano part on it pretty good. 1:04:51.360 --> 1:04:55.400 Uh Uh. The word got around and I started getting 1:04:55.480 --> 1:04:59.040 higher for sessions, a lot of sessions, but I was 1:04:59.080 --> 1:05:01.600 still doing our myth physic and weddings at the same time. 1:05:02.120 --> 1:05:04.760 I carried that on because it's always musicians need to 1:05:04.800 --> 1:05:06.800 pick up money where they can get money. You know. 1:05:07.120 --> 1:05:10.000 It's not a steady, steady job like a nine to 1:05:10.120 --> 1:05:13.320 five or although it became that later on when I 1:05:13.360 --> 1:05:16.400 started getting really busy with sessions. Okay, so you work 1:05:16.440 --> 1:05:18.680 with Sunny and Chair for three years, why does that 1:05:18.880 --> 1:05:21.200 end and you go out back out on the road 1:05:21.400 --> 1:05:26.960 or what that ended? Because I think Sunny and Share 1:05:27.040 --> 1:05:30.520 we're having they broke up, their marriage broke up, but 1:05:30.560 --> 1:05:33.680 then they kept it together for a little while and 1:05:34.000 --> 1:05:36.520 we were we were. My dad became the musical director 1:05:36.560 --> 1:05:39.160 on the Sunny and Chair show after that, and Jeff 1:05:39.160 --> 1:05:41.840 and I were both playing on that show. And then 1:05:41.880 --> 1:05:46.440 I think the show either got canceled or something else 1:05:46.480 --> 1:05:48.919 took it for a break. I think another show came 1:05:48.920 --> 1:05:52.520 in and replaced it, and uh, so we all started 1:05:52.520 --> 1:05:55.600 looking for gigs, and that's when Jeff joined. I thought 1:05:55.640 --> 1:06:00.280 we were gonna get out of the ending result out 1:06:00.280 --> 1:06:02.400 of doing all these gigs was gonna be putting another 1:06:02.480 --> 1:06:06.240 put our band back together from high school after we 1:06:06.400 --> 1:06:09.680 eventually got experienced down the road. But Jeff got an 1:06:09.720 --> 1:06:13.040 invitation and joined Steely Dan, which he accepted because he 1:06:13.080 --> 1:06:16.360 was a giant ganic Steely Dan freak and uh and 1:06:16.440 --> 1:06:18.959 he joined Steely Dan. So I thought, well, there's there's 1:06:19.000 --> 1:06:21.040 goes my dream, you know, and there we will never 1:06:21.400 --> 1:06:23.360 be able to put the band together and I won't 1:06:23.360 --> 1:06:26.720 be able to beat Elton John and uh uh it's 1:06:26.960 --> 1:06:30.840 just looked dismal. And then uh Steely Dan broke up 1:06:31.360 --> 1:06:34.160 and start hiring session guys, which they've kept hiring Jeff, 1:06:34.520 --> 1:06:38.920 but they had more no more road band, So Jeff decided, Uh, 1:06:40.080 --> 1:06:43.960 after silk degrees, which I'm jumping ahead here. After silk degrees, 1:06:44.320 --> 1:06:46.040 a lot of what do I wait, wait, wait, don't 1:06:46.120 --> 1:06:49.240 jump ahead, I won't jump ahead, Okay, Sonny and Share. 1:06:49.360 --> 1:06:51.880 Do you go out with any other bands after Sunny 1:06:51.920 --> 1:06:54.240 and Share? Yes, I went out with Seals and Crofts, 1:06:55.680 --> 1:06:58.040 and uh, the only people else I went out with 1:06:58.280 --> 1:07:01.200 was We're getting to that, which is boss ex. Okay, 1:07:01.720 --> 1:07:06.600 So you work with Louis Shelton, you start to get, 1:07:07.520 --> 1:07:11.600 uh studio gigs. At what point can you give up 1:07:11.680 --> 1:07:16.000 the weekend gigs and just be a studio musician. A 1:07:16.120 --> 1:07:21.120 couple of years after uh, I think Diamond Girl hit. 1:07:21.600 --> 1:07:24.240 I think I was doing three days a day, five 1:07:24.360 --> 1:07:28.960 days a week, which is pretty good. And uh uh 1:07:30.520 --> 1:07:33.160 you know, I think I stopped taking barn Mitts visit 1:07:33.320 --> 1:07:45.320 Weddingston I was able to afford that. Okay. Most musicians 1:07:46.080 --> 1:07:50.520 are heavily networked. Did you get all these studio gigs 1:07:50.760 --> 1:07:54.120 through your network? Were you working it? At what point? 1:07:54.160 --> 1:07:56.240 Could you just wait for the phone to ring? What 1:07:56.440 --> 1:07:59.760 was going on? I was waiting for the phone to 1:08:00.160 --> 1:08:02.920 a lot of times. A lot of musicians like the 1:08:03.040 --> 1:08:06.240 network and hang out or my father was always the thing. 1:08:06.360 --> 1:08:09.760 My father never called anybody for work, so he was 1:08:09.800 --> 1:08:13.240 always wait, they'll call you. Don't call them, they'll call you. 1:08:13.960 --> 1:08:17.360 So I was basically sitting around waiting for the phone 1:08:17.400 --> 1:08:20.240 to ring. And sometimes it would be a contractor saying 1:08:20.280 --> 1:08:22.760 your father wants you for a date. Sometimes my father 1:08:22.800 --> 1:08:25.080 would hire me and it would be great because I 1:08:25.120 --> 1:08:27.920 would be on the inside of the loop as far 1:08:28.000 --> 1:08:32.880 as the parts go. And uh so uh uh is 1:08:33.080 --> 1:08:38.400 mainly word of mouth, and that's how musicians get their things, 1:08:38.479 --> 1:08:41.760 credits on albums. Was that's how networking was done back 1:08:41.800 --> 1:08:45.160 in the day, you know. And then what kind of 1:08:45.200 --> 1:08:49.879 sessions were you doing? I was doing R and B sessions. 1:08:49.920 --> 1:08:52.559 I started working at Motown which was called mo West, 1:08:53.120 --> 1:08:57.559 where I got to work with uh people like Dean Parks, 1:08:57.960 --> 1:09:02.519 people like Clarence McDonald. Uh we very rarely knew who 1:09:02.680 --> 1:09:05.200 the artist was, because on the top of the page 1:09:05.200 --> 1:09:07.680 they wouldn't put the artist names. They would just cut 1:09:07.720 --> 1:09:10.840 a track. And because sometimes it would go to Diana Ross, 1:09:11.200 --> 1:09:13.960 sometimes it would go to Thelmy Houston, and sometimes you 1:09:14.080 --> 1:09:15.800 just didn't know who the artist was on it. So 1:09:16.360 --> 1:09:18.280 I I think I worked on some things for Thelmy 1:09:18.360 --> 1:09:22.640 Houston and Diana Ross, but uh, other than that, I 1:09:22.760 --> 1:09:25.720 was working a lot of motown. I started doing more 1:09:25.800 --> 1:09:29.200 seals and crops records and what else was I doing? 1:09:29.400 --> 1:09:32.440 Just a lot of demos and a lot of freelancing 1:09:32.560 --> 1:09:36.280 sessions of people that you never heard, you know. So 1:09:36.400 --> 1:09:39.720 how does it turn into silk degrees? It turns into 1:09:39.760 --> 1:09:44.439 silk degrees. Uh. One of those dates that Jeff did, 1:09:45.160 --> 1:09:48.519 uh bos Skaggs decided he wanted to produce a blues 1:09:48.600 --> 1:09:51.639 guitarist named les Do Deck who was in the Almand 1:09:51.680 --> 1:09:54.920 Brothers at the time, and Jeff got the call to 1:09:55.080 --> 1:09:57.880 go play with them. Well, they needed an organ player, 1:09:58.000 --> 1:10:00.920 so Jeff through my name in the basket and they 1:10:01.000 --> 1:10:03.720 called me, and so I got to play Oregon and 1:10:03.920 --> 1:10:06.240 jam and me, Me and Jeff were jamming with him 1:10:06.520 --> 1:10:09.920 on this album Untiled Less Do Dick. But that's where 1:10:09.920 --> 1:10:13.439 I met Bozz Skaggs through Jeff Precaro, which I'll I'll 1:10:13.439 --> 1:10:17.240 always be grateful for, you know. Okay, so you're playing 1:10:17.280 --> 1:10:19.360 on the Less Do Dick album, which I actually own, 1:10:20.000 --> 1:10:24.240 and how do you end up working with Boss? Boss 1:10:24.360 --> 1:10:26.840 is looking to do work with a co writer, which 1:10:26.880 --> 1:10:29.680 he never did before, and he wanted to be a 1:10:29.760 --> 1:10:33.720 keyboard player, he thought, and Uh, Jeff sold him, I've 1:10:33.720 --> 1:10:36.760 got the perfect guy for you, David Page, because I've 1:10:36.800 --> 1:10:40.559 been playing my songs start the beginnings of my songs 1:10:40.600 --> 1:10:43.400 on the first album I. Every time we had a session, 1:10:44.080 --> 1:10:46.320 I would always we'd always start jamming on our songs 1:10:46.360 --> 1:10:49.439 that we wanted to record eventually when we made a band, 1:10:49.680 --> 1:10:54.599 which wasn't existing yet. So uh, Boss decided he wanted 1:10:54.640 --> 1:10:57.240 to co write the next album with me, and so 1:10:57.400 --> 1:10:59.719 we went up to my dad's place up in santy Ennez, 1:11:00.280 --> 1:11:03.080 the Ranch, and uh, he sat down on my dad's 1:11:03.120 --> 1:11:06.120 piano and we wrote half the album. We wrote low Down, 1:11:06.560 --> 1:11:10.120 we wrote leto Shuffle, we wrote jump Street, we wrote 1:11:10.160 --> 1:11:15.040 It's Over uh and UH We're All Alone was on that. 1:11:15.280 --> 1:11:20.000 We wrote that there Boss Binley wrote that, uh, and 1:11:20.520 --> 1:11:23.479 that's how it happened. Then I got Cheffer, Carl and 1:11:23.560 --> 1:11:26.840 David Hungate the sunny and share rhythm section, who became 1:11:26.880 --> 1:11:30.320 the total rhythm section. Uh, and Louis I added Louis 1:11:30.360 --> 1:11:32.960 Shelton to that compliment. So you're talking about on the 1:11:33.040 --> 1:11:36.320 Boss Skaggs record. I just took the Luish the Seals 1:11:36.360 --> 1:11:39.720 and crops rhythm section which was Hungate, Cheffer, Carl and 1:11:39.800 --> 1:11:43.679 myself and added Louis Shelton to it. And that's that's 1:11:43.840 --> 1:11:46.320 that was almost total because Louis, Louis wanted to be 1:11:46.360 --> 1:11:51.360 in the band real bed. Okay, so wait, Louis wanted 1:11:51.400 --> 1:11:53.320 to be in Boss's Banter he wanted to be and 1:11:53.400 --> 1:11:56.080 what became Toto he wanted to be and what became Toto? 1:11:56.520 --> 1:11:59.360 But really, yeah, but we found but we we ran 1:11:59.439 --> 1:12:03.719 into Luca or too too early, you know. Okay, before 1:12:03.720 --> 1:12:07.280 we get to Luca third, did you have any idea 1:12:07.479 --> 1:12:11.320 how big those songs were gonna be? No, we were 1:12:11.400 --> 1:12:16.320 trying to just make great music and uh, we had done. 1:12:16.479 --> 1:12:18.559 You know, this is my first chance. I really got 1:12:18.600 --> 1:12:21.600 to do all the arranging on it and uh and 1:12:22.920 --> 1:12:26.360 laying the tracks out. But we had no idea because 1:12:26.360 --> 1:12:28.680 we were trying to do sophisticated stuff. I mean the 1:12:28.760 --> 1:12:33.920 Lowdown is more of a assistant excuse me, sophisticated song 1:12:34.640 --> 1:12:37.479 than most songs at that time. We're getting radio play. 1:12:38.360 --> 1:12:41.519 I have to admit it sounds jazzier to me. And 1:12:41.800 --> 1:12:44.000 uh so that caught it every That was the first 1:12:44.080 --> 1:12:46.040 big single off of it. No, I think It's Over 1:12:46.200 --> 1:12:49.960 was the first single, and then uh uh low Down 1:12:50.120 --> 1:12:52.360 became the next one after that, and it's just started 1:12:52.360 --> 1:12:55.280 getting It took off like a bullet, and I think 1:12:55.320 --> 1:12:58.400 I got the number two with a bullet, and uh 1:12:59.479 --> 1:13:02.360 that's when we got an ideal. That when then Boss 1:13:03.040 --> 1:13:06.679 got management at right after that, and it was Irving 1:13:06.760 --> 1:13:09.720 as off well. Irving had the Eagles and he had 1:13:09.800 --> 1:13:14.040 Boss Gags, so he just started selling a shipload of records. 1:13:14.640 --> 1:13:16.519 Uh they were still was sounding like a hundred thousand 1:13:17.000 --> 1:13:20.880 records a day at the peak of Silk Degrees, and 1:13:21.040 --> 1:13:24.160 the only album that was ahead of that we never 1:13:24.240 --> 1:13:27.840 got the number one was Frampton Comes Alive was number 1:13:27.880 --> 1:13:30.519 one for like twelve weeks. So we were always at 1:13:30.640 --> 1:13:32.760 number two with a bullet, never got the number one 1:13:32.920 --> 1:13:37.479 with Silk Degrees. What did Joe Wizard ad or not add? 1:13:39.240 --> 1:13:42.160 He took care of most of the vocals with Boss 1:13:43.600 --> 1:13:47.720 and Uh and he you know, picked, helped pick the 1:13:47.800 --> 1:13:52.280 takes and just in general the overdubs, the background vocals 1:13:52.920 --> 1:13:56.640 and stuff. But it was a combination of me and 1:13:56.800 --> 1:14:00.960 him that made the album. Okay, So when Bobs went 1:14:01.000 --> 1:14:03.280 on the road, did you go the road with him? Yes, 1:14:03.560 --> 1:14:06.120 I went on the road. Uh, Jeff went on the road, 1:14:06.160 --> 1:14:08.360 and I think Hungate went on the Hungate went on 1:14:08.400 --> 1:14:11.280 the road too. And I forget who was playing other 1:14:11.360 --> 1:14:16.240 guitar part, and I think that Steve Riccaro at this 1:14:16.400 --> 1:14:20.720 time had just left Gary, right and I think he 1:14:20.920 --> 1:14:23.680 was looking for a job. And Bobs we needed a 1:14:23.720 --> 1:14:27.000 second keyboard player to do over for the overdub parts, 1:14:27.280 --> 1:14:30.000 and we hired Steve Riccaro UH to come in and 1:14:30.040 --> 1:14:32.439 being part of the rhythm section. So now we had Jeff, 1:14:32.960 --> 1:14:38.760 David Hungate, myself and Steve Ricardo. Okay, you must have 1:14:38.840 --> 1:14:42.639 made a fortune on silk degrees. I had a couple 1:14:42.640 --> 1:14:47.840 of nickels to rub together. Do you still own that publishing? Yes, 1:14:48.920 --> 1:14:51.720 I own all my publishing. Okay. Would you in this 1:14:51.960 --> 1:14:55.439 heyday of eighteen to twenty two, multiple would you ever 1:14:55.640 --> 1:14:59.000 sell it? Not on that kind of multiple. Maybe you 1:14:59.000 --> 1:15:01.479 give me a twenty seven twenty eight multiple and uh 1:15:02.040 --> 1:15:05.360 and we'll we I'll consider it. You know, I don't 1:15:05.360 --> 1:15:07.200 really don't want to sell my publishing at this point. 1:15:07.240 --> 1:15:09.400 I know everybody else it's the big fads to do 1:15:10.120 --> 1:15:13.040 and it's and it's a little bit touchy because of 1:15:13.160 --> 1:15:15.679 the way the financing is going in the United States 1:15:16.200 --> 1:15:20.639 and how the economy going, and uh uh it's tempting, 1:15:21.640 --> 1:15:25.719 uh uh, but uh, I would not sell my publishing 1:15:25.760 --> 1:15:28.679 at this point. At the moment, I I don't believe 1:15:28.680 --> 1:15:30.400 in it. You know, the light you know, the term 1:15:30.439 --> 1:15:35.120 of copyright is life plus seventy years. That's a long time, 1:15:35.360 --> 1:15:36.640 you know. And what are you gonna do with the 1:15:36.720 --> 1:15:39.479 money after you get it, never mind the wax that 1:15:39.720 --> 1:15:43.280 the government and other people take from it. So after 1:15:43.479 --> 1:15:47.920 bos uh silk degrees, what's the next thing you're working on? 1:15:48.439 --> 1:15:51.920 What did we work on? I think we worked I 1:15:52.040 --> 1:15:55.599 wasn't sure when we worked on Steely Dan Katie Lide album. 1:15:56.600 --> 1:15:59.880 Well I did. I've worked on Black Friday and Dr 1:16:00.040 --> 1:16:02.679 Woo on the Katie Lied album and that was salt 1:16:02.760 --> 1:16:05.880 and peppered in between the Boss Skaggs years. Because I 1:16:05.880 --> 1:16:09.840 remember Donald and Walter had heard Silk Degrees and really 1:16:09.920 --> 1:16:12.840 loved it. So that's why they think. I think they 1:16:12.920 --> 1:16:15.519 hired me and Jeff to play on Katie Lied. I 1:16:15.600 --> 1:16:17.840 may be mistaken, but that's how I remember it, and 1:16:17.920 --> 1:16:23.720 I'm sticking with that story. So. Uh. Then after that, 1:16:25.160 --> 1:16:29.040 I started getting into the Quincy Jones camp, which he 1:16:29.200 --> 1:16:32.400 was doing James Ingram and Donna Summers at the time. 1:16:32.920 --> 1:16:35.280 How I got in there was Steve Bracaro was a 1:16:35.880 --> 1:16:39.360 very sought after synthesis. He was a programming sense and 1:16:39.439 --> 1:16:42.519 playing sense for people like David Foster who did all 1:16:42.560 --> 1:16:47.000 the Chicago stuff. And uh uh, Steve started doing all 1:16:47.040 --> 1:16:50.320 the Quincy Jones stuff and he got me into the session. 1:16:50.640 --> 1:16:53.760 I actually kind of snuck into the session. Uh. I 1:16:53.960 --> 1:16:56.760 was carrying a piece of gear and Steve said, well, 1:16:56.760 --> 1:16:58.640 why don't you have David play the part? So I 1:16:58.680 --> 1:17:01.360 started playing parts. They were like the engineer was like, 1:17:01.479 --> 1:17:03.760 well this, you're pretty good. You should stay. I was 1:17:03.840 --> 1:17:05.800 kind of a snuck in there. You know. I had 1:17:05.840 --> 1:17:08.360 actually known Quincy Jones met him when I was fourteen 1:17:08.840 --> 1:17:11.439 because my dad had been a ranger on some of 1:17:11.560 --> 1:17:14.519 his solo records. So I had met Quincy at a 1:17:14.600 --> 1:17:17.840 very early age, so he knew of me, but really 1:17:17.880 --> 1:17:20.599 I wasn't in his loop, you know. So I got 1:17:20.680 --> 1:17:24.799 into that, started doing James Ingram record, Donna Summer Record, 1:17:25.280 --> 1:17:28.800 and then the Michael jab Big Michael Jackson record game. Okay, 1:17:28.840 --> 1:17:33.000 before the Michael Jackson how come you didn't work on 1:17:33.120 --> 1:17:37.599 the follow up bozz Gags record? Mm hmmm mm hmm, 1:17:38.080 --> 1:17:43.040 good question. Uh. It really came down to two credits 1:17:43.800 --> 1:17:47.760 and and and value how much they valued me. I 1:17:47.840 --> 1:17:52.320 wanted to co produce on their album, and uh that 1:17:52.479 --> 1:17:55.960 wasn't flying with him and Joe Wizard for some reason. Uh, 1:17:56.040 --> 1:17:59.360 they just didn't work out. And so my dad said, 1:17:59.400 --> 1:18:02.040 I said once and I formed my band. He said, well, 1:18:02.080 --> 1:18:04.400 you should do this album if you can do it. 1:18:04.479 --> 1:18:08.120 But if they say no, uh, now is the time 1:18:08.200 --> 1:18:12.479 to probably form your band, you know, because uh uh 1:18:13.120 --> 1:18:16.640 you have. There was a lot of people uh smooziness 1:18:16.680 --> 1:18:19.479 at the time for big record companies because of the 1:18:19.520 --> 1:18:21.840 boss s Gags thing. And we've been as we went 1:18:21.880 --> 1:18:23.720 on the road, we kept telling people we're gonna be 1:18:23.800 --> 1:18:27.080 forming a band, and everybody we got cards from everybody's 1:18:27.160 --> 1:18:31.600 before cell phones and everything. Everybody had cards. People that 1:18:31.720 --> 1:18:35.160 we contacted or would play our demos for to get 1:18:35.200 --> 1:18:41.800 a record deal. So uh it was uh that's because 1:18:41.840 --> 1:18:44.479 I didn't. I wanted to co produce and basically couldn't. 1:18:45.760 --> 1:18:49.000 And did he ever come back to the table because 1:18:49.040 --> 1:18:53.439 he never had as much success as he had with you? Yes, 1:18:53.680 --> 1:18:57.120 and I did. Uh. I co produced an album called 1:18:57.200 --> 1:19:01.280 Dig with him that came out and uh I co 1:19:01.439 --> 1:19:03.880 produced that with him and a couple of other songs 1:19:04.840 --> 1:19:11.679 off we did remade Low Down and uh Lido Shuffle 1:19:12.000 --> 1:19:14.599 to do so he could own. He wanted to own 1:19:14.640 --> 1:19:18.920 the masters on it, so we remade him. So tell 1:19:18.960 --> 1:19:23.360 me about working with Michael Jackson. Michael Jackson was a perfectionist. 1:19:23.520 --> 1:19:25.800 I would love him. He was the sweetheart to work with. 1:19:26.840 --> 1:19:31.800 He totally gave a total autonomy whenever you were doing 1:19:31.960 --> 1:19:34.560 something too. If you heard doing this or heard in 1:19:34.600 --> 1:19:37.519 a choir or one of an orchestra or one of you, 1:19:37.680 --> 1:19:41.680 just say, just think big, use your imagination, he would say. 1:19:41.920 --> 1:19:44.920 He would say, I think, imagine you're Michael Angelo and 1:19:44.960 --> 1:19:47.519 your painting the Sistine Chapel. That's why I want you 1:19:47.600 --> 1:19:50.720 to produce, arrange your your part. You know, because he 1:19:50.760 --> 1:19:52.800 didn't treat you like he were just a musician. He 1:19:52.920 --> 1:19:56.120 treated you like he were a creative force in making 1:19:56.160 --> 1:19:59.720 a part of his music. So, uh, I got in 1:19:59.800 --> 1:20:02.120 a room with him and we were just playing music. 1:20:02.680 --> 1:20:05.080 I was playing I think it was Billy Jean, which 1:20:05.160 --> 1:20:08.360 I didn't end up playing on, but I played. I 1:20:08.520 --> 1:20:11.240 did a couple of overdubs on it, and he he 1:20:11.360 --> 1:20:13.759 let a couple of mistakes go by, and I stopped 1:20:13.840 --> 1:20:16.240 him right there and I said, Michael, you're you're sloughing off. 1:20:16.479 --> 1:20:19.320 I said, I'm a perfectionist and he goes, well, so 1:20:19.439 --> 1:20:21.280 am I. He goes, you don't mind. You don't mind 1:20:21.320 --> 1:20:23.680 if I say you're you made a mistake there. I said, no, 1:20:23.920 --> 1:20:25.720 I want just to bust me on it. So I 1:20:25.800 --> 1:20:28.400 went back, cleaned up all my stuff, and from there 1:20:28.439 --> 1:20:30.600 on her him and his relationship was great because he 1:20:30.680 --> 1:20:33.040 said he'd go in a room and go, yeah, David's 1:20:33.040 --> 1:20:34.200 got to be in the room with me when I 1:20:34.240 --> 1:20:37.320 do vocals. He's a perfectionist like I am. He say 1:20:37.439 --> 1:20:39.479 this to people, and I'm Quincy Jones would be in 1:20:39.479 --> 1:20:41.719 the room and be a get embarrassing after a while, 1:20:41.840 --> 1:20:47.479 you know. So why was it a phenomenon? Was it? 1:20:47.800 --> 1:20:52.120 Michael was a que who do we give the credit to. 1:20:53.479 --> 1:20:55.800 I think you can start with them. I think you 1:20:55.800 --> 1:20:59.640 can start with Quincy Jones. Uh put Lane the groundwork 1:20:59.760 --> 1:21:03.960 of again, giving him a cast of characters to choose from, 1:21:04.760 --> 1:21:07.120 uh to play on all these albums, I mean all 1:21:07.160 --> 1:21:10.080 the bets best players were sitting out in the hallway 1:21:10.400 --> 1:21:12.920 ready to go in. It was like relief pictures for 1:21:13.040 --> 1:21:15.680 the Dodgers or something, you know what I mean, bad example. 1:21:16.280 --> 1:21:19.600 Um Uh. There was Foster, there was Me, there was 1:21:19.680 --> 1:21:23.479 filling Games, there was Michael Boddicker, there was Steve Racrl, 1:21:23.640 --> 1:21:26.080 all sitting in the hallway to go. Each go in 1:21:26.280 --> 1:21:29.000 for whatever duties you need to do, either tune in 1:21:29.080 --> 1:21:32.840 a scent or getting figuring out the tempos or uh 1:21:33.600 --> 1:21:37.360 uh one of a million things that you could possibly 1:21:37.400 --> 1:21:39.599 be doing. So back to your what you were saying, 1:21:40.000 --> 1:21:44.439 I think Quincy had framed the whole package and let 1:21:44.600 --> 1:21:48.400 Michael just be a great artist, which he is incredible artist, 1:21:48.840 --> 1:21:52.400 and Quincy uh is a song man and made sure 1:21:52.439 --> 1:21:55.320 that all the songs were up to par and uh 1:21:56.240 --> 1:22:00.799 uh he even called McCartney and uh, I think McCartney 1:22:00.800 --> 1:22:03.719 may have approached him, but Quincy may have approached McCartney. 1:22:03.880 --> 1:22:06.080 I'm not sure I got to check that out about 1:22:06.120 --> 1:22:08.519 the Girl is Mine because they wanted to get a 1:22:08.600 --> 1:22:11.360 duet on the album, and who other than Paul McCartney, 1:22:11.400 --> 1:22:15.559 you know, perfect call, perfect casting right there, So uh uh, 1:22:16.400 --> 1:22:19.800 that was I think Quincy and Michael, and not to 1:22:19.880 --> 1:22:22.720 mention all the great musicians that played on the record too, 1:22:22.960 --> 1:22:26.080 you know, and a guy who I love dearly who's 1:22:26.120 --> 1:22:28.920 not with us any doing more named Rod Temperton who 1:22:28.960 --> 1:22:31.640 wrote most of those songs on the Thriller album. He 1:22:31.800 --> 1:22:34.400 was he made great demos and was a great songwriter. 1:22:36.160 --> 1:22:44.720 And do you think Michael changed with the success? Uh? 1:22:46.720 --> 1:22:50.880 I think that success changes alters everybody a little bit. 1:22:51.360 --> 1:22:55.759 Not maybe everybody, but most people are affected by it somehow. 1:22:55.800 --> 1:22:59.120 And I think that when that album became so big, 1:23:00.200 --> 1:23:03.120 I don't think Michael was insulated enough to keep all 1:23:03.200 --> 1:23:06.919 the other people away from the people that weren't interested 1:23:06.960 --> 1:23:11.479 in him for his talent. And uh uh, he started 1:23:11.520 --> 1:23:15.479 making bigger deals with outside people and and just becoming 1:23:15.560 --> 1:23:20.800 a larger than life figure. So I think that I 1:23:20.920 --> 1:23:24.720 think I can't actually put my finger on it, but 1:23:24.840 --> 1:23:28.120 I think success may have put him in a certain 1:23:28.240 --> 1:23:32.920 perspective let him view everything for a certain lens and 1:23:33.360 --> 1:23:36.719 uh that maybe the normal person wouldn't view the world, 1:23:37.040 --> 1:23:44.559 you know. Okay, so you're out with the bos. How 1:23:44.600 --> 1:23:47.280 does the how do you meet Lucather? To begin with 1:23:48.920 --> 1:23:53.479 good question, I met him uh at a high school 1:23:54.160 --> 1:23:57.439 we were playing. They were playing a gig. The follow 1:23:57.560 --> 1:24:00.360 up band. You have to understand our band, it's called 1:24:00.439 --> 1:24:02.840 still Life in high school. Well, when we all left 1:24:02.920 --> 1:24:06.040 with Mike Ricaro and Jeff and Jeff and I left, 1:24:06.560 --> 1:24:10.479 Steve Pricaro and Steve Lucas took over our band, which 1:24:10.640 --> 1:24:14.439 was called still Life, so they became still Life And 1:24:14.760 --> 1:24:19.160 excuse me, uh uh, so I world start getting around 1:24:19.280 --> 1:24:21.559 when we started looking for a band to put together. 1:24:22.800 --> 1:24:25.280 Uh that there was this guy, Steve Lukather, and you 1:24:25.320 --> 1:24:27.600 guys ought to really check him out. Actually, there was 1:24:27.640 --> 1:24:30.720 two guitar players, Steve Lukather and Mike Landau. They were 1:24:30.800 --> 1:24:33.960 both in the same band. And but me and Jeff 1:24:34.000 --> 1:24:35.960 went down to Taft High School, which is right down 1:24:36.000 --> 1:24:42.240 the street here, and I saw somebody running around on 1:24:42.439 --> 1:24:47.120 stage and it looked like some derelict or something like this, 1:24:47.280 --> 1:24:49.840 some older guy. And as I got closer to the stage, 1:24:50.200 --> 1:24:53.120 I realized that the guitar player was a guitar player, 1:24:53.439 --> 1:24:57.280 and he had a monkey mask on on stage wearing it, 1:24:57.840 --> 1:24:59.920 and the when when I got up closer to the 1:25:00.080 --> 1:25:03.360 stage you could see him, he ran and jumped through 1:25:03.400 --> 1:25:05.639 the air like Pete Townsend and slid on his knees 1:25:06.120 --> 1:25:09.439 and got up and saying Johnny be Good with his 1:25:09.920 --> 1:25:13.320 impression of Johnny Winter kind of voice on Johnny be Good, 1:25:13.640 --> 1:25:16.840 and Jeff says, Jett goes, there's our front man right there, 1:25:17.200 --> 1:25:19.439 Jeff pointing to him and says, there's our front man. 1:25:19.560 --> 1:25:21.960 You know. I was just listening to the guitar playing 1:25:22.240 --> 1:25:25.040 and he was just playing faster than ship. And Landau 1:25:25.120 --> 1:25:27.280 was playing a strato caster, which I was a big 1:25:27.360 --> 1:25:30.360 Strap fan, so I was kind of leaning towards Landau 1:25:30.800 --> 1:25:35.000 because uh of a strato caster playing, But Jeff Saud said, 1:25:35.040 --> 1:25:38.000 that's what we need. He's a star. Jeff recognized that 1:25:38.080 --> 1:25:40.240 Luca there was a star from the beginning there. So 1:25:40.840 --> 1:25:42.920 that's how we met. And I started going to some 1:25:43.040 --> 1:25:45.240 of their gigs, sitting in on some of their gigs 1:25:45.960 --> 1:25:49.479 when they would go play UH Beverly Hills UH High 1:25:49.520 --> 1:25:52.120 School and they'd have their their gig at the Beverly 1:25:52.200 --> 1:25:56.200 Hills Hotel. I showed up, uh did a cameo performance 1:25:56.200 --> 1:25:58.519 and played with him a couple of times. So uh, 1:25:58.840 --> 1:26:01.800 I think even jeff Off got Steely, Donald and Walter 1:26:02.320 --> 1:26:04.120 to come down to one of their gigs because they 1:26:04.120 --> 1:26:07.840 were so fabulous and hear the band. And how did 1:26:07.960 --> 1:26:13.320 Lucather get into sessions? Lucather started, Lucy got into our band, 1:26:13.920 --> 1:26:16.960 and that's how he got sessions. Once once with Jeffrey, 1:26:17.040 --> 1:26:20.360 Carl put his arm around you. That was the guy 1:26:20.439 --> 1:26:22.240 to be, you know what I mean, because everybody, a 1:26:22.320 --> 1:26:26.639 lot of other people we go that should uh go nameless. 1:26:26.960 --> 1:26:29.160 A lot of people wanted the guitar spot on on 1:26:29.280 --> 1:26:32.439 the total thing. But Lucas showed up. He just showed 1:26:32.520 --> 1:26:34.559 up when we were making our demos and we didn't 1:26:34.600 --> 1:26:36.680 put the word out or call or anything. He just 1:26:36.800 --> 1:26:39.439 shirt up, showed up. We sat in the hall and 1:26:39.560 --> 1:26:42.080 learned the tunes out of the hallway and came in 1:26:42.479 --> 1:26:47.320 and just roasted the four songs like a guy that's 1:26:47.360 --> 1:26:51.000 been playing him for twenty years. It was unbelievable, you know, 1:26:51.040 --> 1:26:52.920 it was phenomenal. We just Jeff and I were just 1:26:53.000 --> 1:26:55.400 looking at each other, was shaking our heads. We couldn't 1:26:55.439 --> 1:26:57.840 believe it, you know, because these were just songs that 1:26:58.160 --> 1:27:00.840 were just freshly written that you know, And so he 1:27:00.920 --> 1:27:03.840 put the original guitar parts on. So Jeff started taking 1:27:03.920 --> 1:27:05.920 him around when Jeff would do a session, because you 1:27:06.040 --> 1:27:08.519 gotta meet you gotta use Steve lukeather on guitar. You 1:27:08.640 --> 1:27:11.599 got and introduced him to Larry Carlton. So guitar players 1:27:11.600 --> 1:27:14.759 started recommending him when they couldn't make gigs, you know where. 1:27:14.800 --> 1:27:16.760 He got around very fast about Luke. He was a 1:27:16.840 --> 1:27:20.360 quick learner. And how did Bobby Kimball get in the band? 1:27:21.160 --> 1:27:24.200 Bobby Kimball was in a band I was gonna co 1:27:24.400 --> 1:27:28.280 produce called SS Fools, which is the old Three Dog 1:27:28.439 --> 1:27:31.320 Night rhythm section, and they had a band, and Jeff 1:27:31.360 --> 1:27:34.200 and I had been rehearsing with that band with those 1:27:34.280 --> 1:27:39.519 guys uh before to make a band called SS Fools, 1:27:39.920 --> 1:27:41.760 But me and Jeff didn't want to join the band. 1:27:41.840 --> 1:27:43.960 We just wanted to make the record. So we were 1:27:44.000 --> 1:27:47.080 playing with this guy Joe Schremy and a couple other 1:27:47.280 --> 1:27:51.240 ex guys from Three Dog Night and Bobby Kimball was 1:27:51.439 --> 1:27:54.840 one of the singers, and uh, he would I all 1:27:54.920 --> 1:27:56.519 I noticed when he would sit and play a song 1:27:56.600 --> 1:28:00.360 by himself, it would practically shatter windows. And he could 1:28:00.360 --> 1:28:04.160 sing really high, really high, and really powerful and really 1:28:04.240 --> 1:28:07.040 bluesy because it was from New Orleans and so it 1:28:07.120 --> 1:28:11.400 was very powerful and very very funky, and uh uh, 1:28:12.040 --> 1:28:16.519 we try to contact other singers. I asked Mike McDonald 1:28:16.600 --> 1:28:18.760 to be in the band. I asked Kenny Loggins to 1:28:18.800 --> 1:28:21.439 be in the band. I was Mickey Thomps Thomas to 1:28:21.479 --> 1:28:23.400 be in the band, and they were all wanted us 1:28:23.439 --> 1:28:26.240 to join their bands. Uh So it was a kind 1:28:26.280 --> 1:28:29.400 of a stalemate. It was a push and uh at 1:28:29.439 --> 1:28:31.720 the last minute because I had done the vocals on 1:28:31.800 --> 1:28:35.559 the demos, which were barely acceptable, but they were okay 1:28:35.880 --> 1:28:39.360 for people to listen to. I finally they kept saying, 1:28:39.680 --> 1:28:43.400 how's your vocals gonna be? People kept questioning, well, what's Total? 1:28:43.439 --> 1:28:45.920 We know Total can play, but who does their vocals? 1:28:45.920 --> 1:28:49.040 Who's the singer? And how are the vocals gonna be? Now, 1:28:49.120 --> 1:28:52.160 you have to understand, this was a time when Boston 1:28:52.439 --> 1:28:55.160 had just come out and owned the charts and Foreigner 1:28:55.320 --> 1:28:58.360 was out, So backgrounds were heavy and they had to 1:28:58.400 --> 1:29:01.799 be high and powerful. So I just took a chance 1:29:02.400 --> 1:29:05.479 and we Uh. I brought Bobby Kimball in and to 1:29:05.560 --> 1:29:08.439 audition with us, and the first thing we did was 1:29:08.560 --> 1:29:12.360 hold the Line. We we rehearsed that. On the first 1:29:12.400 --> 1:29:15.960 time we played it, it sounded al just like the 1:29:16.040 --> 1:29:18.800 record with him singing, Luca there on guitar, me and 1:29:18.920 --> 1:29:22.280 Jeff on our instruments and Hungate on drums, and that's 1:29:22.320 --> 1:29:26.200 what sold us on him. Okay, So hold the Line 1:29:26.320 --> 1:29:30.160 came before the record deal or vice versa. Hold the 1:29:30.280 --> 1:29:34.280 line came before the record deal? Yes, and how did 1:29:34.320 --> 1:29:35.880 you get the record deal? And how did you end 1:29:35.960 --> 1:29:41.720 up on Columbia? Uh? We were, Jeff. Jeff always kept 1:29:42.080 --> 1:29:44.640 a cassette. We always kept cassettes of our demos in 1:29:44.720 --> 1:29:49.599 our pockets. And because we visited every session in town, 1:29:50.160 --> 1:29:53.719 we would also meet all the record executives from every company. 1:29:54.320 --> 1:29:57.200 So every time there'd be a break on the session, 1:29:57.439 --> 1:30:00.520 Jeff would pop in our cassette and let the executives 1:30:00.600 --> 1:30:03.679 listened to it from that company. So every company knew 1:30:03.720 --> 1:30:07.800 about us, Warner Brothers, UH, CBS, you name it, they 1:30:07.840 --> 1:30:12.839 all knew about us, and uh we were. Warner Brothers 1:30:13.439 --> 1:30:18.960 was bidding against CBS. Uh, because CBS wanted to sign us, 1:30:19.360 --> 1:30:23.679 but Warners wasn't bid, wasn't was bidding against Warner CBS. 1:30:24.320 --> 1:30:27.280 So we got a call from Walter yet Nikov, who 1:30:27.360 --> 1:30:29.800 was president of CBS at the time, to Cheff South 1:30:30.320 --> 1:30:32.719 and he said he wanted us to go. He would 1:30:32.960 --> 1:30:35.160 he wanted us to be on CBS. So he wanted 1:30:35.240 --> 1:30:39.560 to stop this uh bidding war, bidding war nonsense and 1:30:39.880 --> 1:30:45.360 uh uh he wanted uh. Two managers called Fitzgerald and Hartley, 1:30:45.920 --> 1:30:49.759 Mark Hartley and Larry Fitzgerald managers because they were managing Chicago. 1:30:50.400 --> 1:30:52.759 And I know Larry had been tour manager from McCarty 1:30:52.840 --> 1:30:55.040 on this tour, so I know they had touring and 1:30:55.120 --> 1:30:57.280 they knew how to work the record company. The reason 1:30:57.439 --> 1:31:02.400 the manly higher managers is at that time was because 1:31:02.439 --> 1:31:05.519 they knew how to manipulate the record companies. So we 1:31:05.640 --> 1:31:08.880 knew that they had were in good standing with Sony, 1:31:09.240 --> 1:31:12.120 and yet Nikov had requested that we do it that way. 1:31:12.439 --> 1:31:16.200 So we followed Waltri Yetnikov's lead in there and went 1:31:16.280 --> 1:31:19.960 with Sony. Uh instead of smaller labels and stuff like that. 1:31:20.600 --> 1:31:24.519 And uh uh it was they signed us without even 1:31:24.520 --> 1:31:26.920 seeing us performed live. I think the guy that signed 1:31:26.960 --> 1:31:29.479 us got fired because of that, but they were. There 1:31:29.600 --> 1:31:33.240 was so much confidence in a total at that time 1:31:33.360 --> 1:31:38.640 unseen that just the word of mouth got us signed. Now, 1:31:38.720 --> 1:31:44.680 in the first album, you wrote almost all the songs. Uh. 1:31:45.240 --> 1:31:47.639 I think that's probably because I started to writing songs 1:31:47.760 --> 1:31:50.559 before everyone No, everyone else was kind of there were 1:31:50.600 --> 1:31:54.479 mainly musicians not songwriters. Where I had been writing songs 1:31:55.040 --> 1:31:59.400 for the last I don't know, ten years be time 1:31:59.439 --> 1:32:03.720 to be between uh, let's see, or maybe five years, 1:32:04.040 --> 1:32:06.280 five years before the band, and so I had this 1:32:06.439 --> 1:32:10.840 backlog of pieces of songs, not unlike my my solo 1:32:10.960 --> 1:32:13.639 record here, which had pieces of songs. But I started 1:32:13.680 --> 1:32:16.400 putting the pieces together and made these songs, made the 1:32:16.760 --> 1:32:19.080 most of the songs that you heard on the very 1:32:19.160 --> 1:32:21.320 first album. It's just that I had a head start 1:32:21.600 --> 1:32:24.960 and I had a backlog of songs. Uh to popularly, 1:32:25.320 --> 1:32:27.519 plus so I wrote, I wrote why we were doing 1:32:27.600 --> 1:32:31.320 the record too, so uh uh, maybe I just was 1:32:31.400 --> 1:32:33.360 a little bit of because I'm a little bit older 1:32:33.400 --> 1:32:36.880 than Lucather and uh and Steve Riccaro and the guy. 1:32:37.000 --> 1:32:38.840 So I had a little bit of head start. Those 1:32:38.920 --> 1:32:43.439 were like undergrads. Okay, did you know whole the line 1:32:43.520 --> 1:32:46.040 was going to be a hit. No, but I was 1:32:46.080 --> 1:32:48.120 hoping it would be a hit, but I didn't know. 1:32:48.760 --> 1:32:51.040 All I know was is catchy. It was very catchy. 1:32:51.800 --> 1:32:56.160 And uh, I loved hot fun in the summertime by 1:32:56.200 --> 1:32:58.679 Slice Stone. So I wanted to write something that made 1:32:58.720 --> 1:33:01.799 me feel like that, and so I, uh, I started 1:33:01.800 --> 1:33:04.920 playing this riff when I got out of when I 1:33:05.040 --> 1:33:07.720 moved out of my parents house and I got an 1:33:07.720 --> 1:33:11.320 apartment in Westwood, and I got an upright piano and 1:33:11.400 --> 1:33:13.960 I started playing this riff and I didn't stop playing 1:33:14.000 --> 1:33:16.040 the riff for about three days. I started to keep 1:33:16.080 --> 1:33:18.960 playing the song, working on the song, and the neighbor 1:33:19.040 --> 1:33:21.200 next door neighbors started pounding on the wall for me 1:33:21.320 --> 1:33:24.360 to stop. It got so monotonous. So we we we 1:33:24.560 --> 1:33:26.799 we rehearsed it. That's when we went to the studio 1:33:27.160 --> 1:33:30.200 and rehearsed with Bobby Kimball and found out that, yeah, 1:33:30.479 --> 1:33:34.160 we have a band here, which meant all these little 1:33:34.200 --> 1:33:37.720 pieces of songs, whatever I have possibly going, we have 1:33:37.840 --> 1:33:39.760 a band. We have an outlet for where there's a 1:33:39.840 --> 1:33:43.519 vehicle for it. Now, UH that that we proved ourselves 1:33:43.760 --> 1:33:47.320 withhold the line. So we started rehearsing the other songs 1:33:47.720 --> 1:33:51.519 to go in and cut the first album. So it's 1:33:51.560 --> 1:33:55.880 a success, you know, back and there there, I mean 1:33:56.040 --> 1:33:59.720 the record was everywhere. What changed? I mean then you 1:33:59.800 --> 1:34:01.000 have to go on the road, you have to go 1:34:01.080 --> 1:34:04.160 to photo shoots. What was it like? It was? It 1:34:04.320 --> 1:34:06.000 was we had a lot of smiles on our face. 1:34:06.160 --> 1:34:09.920 You know. The album went double platinum and uh we 1:34:10.040 --> 1:34:14.240 were supposed to We got an agent, uh uh the 1:34:14.360 --> 1:34:17.639 booking agents and what we kept telling people we wanted 1:34:17.680 --> 1:34:19.960 the headline the first time out because we'd heard of 1:34:20.040 --> 1:34:22.679 other bands doing that successfully if they had a great 1:34:22.760 --> 1:34:27.519 live show. So we kept telling our They kept wanting 1:34:27.600 --> 1:34:29.840 us to open for people, and we didn't want to 1:34:29.920 --> 1:34:32.160 do that. So they booked us and we started working 1:34:32.240 --> 1:34:37.120 small gigs uh around as as the headliners. Of course 1:34:37.160 --> 1:34:39.960 there were just small venues at the time. But we 1:34:40.040 --> 1:34:42.840 started going on the road and as our records started 1:34:42.880 --> 1:34:46.840 taking off. Uh, we got an offer from Japan to 1:34:46.960 --> 1:34:49.760 play big, big places because our our record became a 1:34:49.840 --> 1:34:52.479 huge hit in Japan right after that, and we went 1:34:52.520 --> 1:34:55.880 over to Japan and it was like total mania there. 1:34:56.160 --> 1:34:58.400 It was like the beat It was not unlike not 1:34:58.600 --> 1:35:01.439 quite the Beatles, but it was a lot of fan 1:35:01.960 --> 1:35:06.960 uh fan boys and fan girls over there that just 1:35:07.479 --> 1:35:10.879 followed total from from gig the gig on the trains 1:35:11.479 --> 1:35:15.840 and uh sold out concerts and it was really great 1:35:15.880 --> 1:35:18.360 for our egos and for our to validate our band, 1:35:19.080 --> 1:35:23.599 and uh Uh a little by little our records started. 1:35:24.320 --> 1:35:29.120 Records helped enormously at that time. You gain recognition if 1:35:29.160 --> 1:35:31.160 you had to hit record. There was a guy named 1:35:31.200 --> 1:35:36.080 big Uh big Al in UH Amsterdam that broke hold 1:35:36.120 --> 1:35:38.960 the line there, which is why we ended up being 1:35:39.000 --> 1:35:41.720 so huge in Europe as everybody heard the station in 1:35:41.840 --> 1:35:45.960 Amsterdam and UH we just played totally, just played the 1:35:46.080 --> 1:35:49.920 Zygodom in Amsterdam and it sold out the seventeen thousand people. 1:35:50.360 --> 1:35:54.280 So it shows you how our success story started with 1:35:54.439 --> 1:35:57.920 just a radio play at that time and knowing the DJ. 1:35:58.600 --> 1:36:00.880 You know, back in that day, swing by knowing if 1:36:00.920 --> 1:36:04.080 you knew the DJ or had a relationship with our managers. 1:36:04.520 --> 1:36:08.360 Had a had a relationship with a guy named Steve 1:36:08.439 --> 1:36:13.280 West at kJ R in Seattle, and he broke all 1:36:13.360 --> 1:36:16.760 the line in the United States and all the other registers, 1:36:16.800 --> 1:36:18.960 all the other stations went on it because I think 1:36:19.000 --> 1:36:21.960 they're called p ones or something like that, Regio stations 1:36:22.400 --> 1:36:27.479 and popular market right. So that's how that's what we 1:36:27.560 --> 1:36:30.679 were doing, was playing live and uh and getting ready 1:36:30.800 --> 1:36:35.040 for to make another record, but mainly touring live and 1:36:35.320 --> 1:36:46.160 uh enjoying being rock stars. You know, you were very 1:36:46.280 --> 1:36:50.360 experienced guys. Most people who have success like that out 1:36:50.400 --> 1:36:53.000 of the box end up being ripped off. They're so 1:36:53.080 --> 1:36:55.040 busy working they don't know what the hell was going on. 1:36:55.600 --> 1:37:00.360 What happened with you guys? Uh, we're pretty luck when 1:37:00.400 --> 1:37:02.000 it comes to that stuff. But you had a lot 1:37:02.040 --> 1:37:04.920 of people watching us, my father and my mom who 1:37:05.000 --> 1:37:08.000 was and my mom was a corporate bookkeeper. She was 1:37:08.040 --> 1:37:11.080 always looking at my checks. And because I I had 1:37:11.080 --> 1:37:14.439 already had a career doing sessions, so uh, and I 1:37:14.560 --> 1:37:17.080 was I had a publishing. I was already published and 1:37:17.280 --> 1:37:21.640 was had my own publishing and so uh uh, but 1:37:21.840 --> 1:37:25.400 they were it was more transparent with uh. My parents 1:37:25.680 --> 1:37:27.840 had to relate. Uh. We're able to talk to the 1:37:27.920 --> 1:37:31.280 managers and ask around to see who's honest and who's 1:37:31.360 --> 1:37:35.240 not as honest. And we found out that our managers 1:37:35.320 --> 1:37:38.960 were were more honest than all the others out there. 1:37:39.520 --> 1:37:42.200 I say more honest, you know, because there we put 1:37:42.240 --> 1:37:44.479 the name manager in front of anybody and they can't 1:37:44.520 --> 1:37:50.360 be that honest, you know. Uh. But anyway, Uh, we 1:37:50.560 --> 1:37:52.680 had people looking at the books all the time. You know. 1:37:53.280 --> 1:37:55.920 We had an accountant to a band had an accountant, 1:37:56.680 --> 1:37:59.680 the managers had an accountant, and I had my own accountant. 1:38:00.120 --> 1:38:03.200 So there were three people. What loved watching keeping an 1:38:03.240 --> 1:38:05.479 eye on everything at the time and making sure we 1:38:05.520 --> 1:38:09.400 didn't move too fast too quickly, you know. So tell 1:38:09.439 --> 1:38:13.960 me about making the second record. The second record, we 1:38:14.160 --> 1:38:18.120 had been playing live to bigger venues, and we had 1:38:18.320 --> 1:38:23.120 seen that there's bands out there doing stuff that was 1:38:23.200 --> 1:38:28.880 working specifically for live audiences. Bands like Queen, bands like 1:38:29.000 --> 1:38:35.000 Jethro Toll, bands like General Giant, bands like Genesis. We're 1:38:35.040 --> 1:38:37.120 making a noise out there, but they were doing not 1:38:37.320 --> 1:38:41.760 necessarily hit singles, they were doing great concert music. So 1:38:42.360 --> 1:38:45.240 we started writing a few things, like the word the 1:38:46.000 --> 1:38:48.720 next album is called Hydra, which I got from a 1:38:48.920 --> 1:38:54.640 Leonard Cohen poem called Hydra. Uh and uh, we we 1:38:54.840 --> 1:38:57.400 kind of start experimenting with that as an opening a 1:38:57.520 --> 1:39:01.439 show opener, which it did open our show live for 1:39:02.000 --> 1:39:04.560 a tour, and it ended up being great and we 1:39:04.640 --> 1:39:07.560 ended up had getting a lot of fulfillment and and 1:39:07.680 --> 1:39:11.280 crowd pleaser from doing more extended work on that album, 1:39:11.640 --> 1:39:14.880 and again I had a couple of songs lying around 1:39:14.920 --> 1:39:18.840 that I had written. Again in the meantime after the 1:39:18.920 --> 1:39:22.080 first album and the second album, we're still doing sessions 1:39:22.160 --> 1:39:25.439 all the time. Jeff and Luke are are over with 1:39:25.560 --> 1:39:29.120 Elton John and France cutting an Elton John record. I'm 1:39:29.160 --> 1:39:32.599 in the studio doing some keyboard overdubs with Steve Ricaro 1:39:33.280 --> 1:39:37.360 and so, uh, we're working and I was constantly writing songs, 1:39:37.400 --> 1:39:40.679 trying to write some new material for the second album, 1:39:41.120 --> 1:39:44.400 and that's what we ended up with was a couple 1:39:44.479 --> 1:39:47.400 of uh. There was a step Er Carlo song, and 1:39:47.479 --> 1:39:50.559 I think I wrote most of the rest of the songs, 1:39:51.080 --> 1:39:54.600 although I'd have to look at it again. Okay, this 1:39:54.800 --> 1:39:56.680 is how I really got into that album. I was 1:39:56.760 --> 1:39:59.040 on a plane and they played ninety nine in the 1:39:59.080 --> 1:40:01.640 old days when you use to listen to the programming, 1:40:02.280 --> 1:40:05.720 tell me about nine and why that's the name of 1:40:05.800 --> 1:40:08.680 the song, and had that come to you. I've just 1:40:08.800 --> 1:40:12.439 seen a George Lucas movie called t Checks. I think 1:40:12.520 --> 1:40:16.479 it is one eighty three something like that. Anyway, the 1:40:16.600 --> 1:40:19.519 premise was everyone in the future. It was about every 1:40:19.800 --> 1:40:25.639 futuristic a dystopian society where everybody had numbers and not names. 1:40:26.160 --> 1:40:28.880 So I thought it was really would be clever to 1:40:28.960 --> 1:40:33.680 write a song about a girl or mate as it 1:40:33.760 --> 1:40:36.080 may be, that had a number and not a name. 1:40:36.320 --> 1:40:38.680 And I just picked up ninety nine. It just came 1:40:38.680 --> 1:40:41.160 out of my mouth. I was just saying, playing the 1:40:41.240 --> 1:40:44.400 groove to nine, and I went nine and nine. It's 1:40:44.439 --> 1:40:48.040 been waiting so long, and that's how it happened. And 1:40:48.120 --> 1:40:51.120 I just finished the song, and uh, like I said, 1:40:51.160 --> 1:40:53.120 it probably doesn't mean a lot to a lot of people, 1:40:53.200 --> 1:40:55.439 but I thought it was one of totals better tracks 1:40:55.520 --> 1:40:58.719 that we cut, and I thought it has extended guitar, 1:40:59.200 --> 1:41:02.040 has extended guitar and bass solos on the end, which 1:41:02.040 --> 1:41:04.360 were pretty innovative for that time, and they played all 1:41:04.479 --> 1:41:06.479 till the very end. It just shows you what a 1:41:06.600 --> 1:41:10.479 great rhythm section, uh total was is on that record 1:41:10.640 --> 1:41:14.599 is very indicative. David Hungate, Jeffrey carl and drums, Steve 1:41:14.720 --> 1:41:18.880 Lucather uh on guitar, and Bobby Kimball didn't sing on 1:41:18.920 --> 1:41:24.080 that at all, right, and so the album holds together. 1:41:24.840 --> 1:41:29.320 But nine had some chart impact, but not as much 1:41:29.400 --> 1:41:31.880 as hold the line. What did you guys think and 1:41:32.000 --> 1:41:35.800 what did the label think. We thought that we had 1:41:37.760 --> 1:41:41.680 we were hoping for bigger numbers within but we we 1:41:41.840 --> 1:41:44.559 saw that it was kind of a minor hit, kind 1:41:44.560 --> 1:41:48.400 of adult contemporary kind of thing, so uh, you know, 1:41:48.880 --> 1:41:50.800 we were I think we were so busy trying to 1:41:50.840 --> 1:41:54.879 get our touring show together that we weren't so interested 1:41:54.960 --> 1:41:58.320 in singles. We thought we thought maybe all as boys 1:41:58.520 --> 1:42:01.719 or uh, I forget what else is on their MoMA 1:42:01.800 --> 1:42:04.160 or something like that. I don't know. I think the 1:42:04.240 --> 1:42:08.840 record company also once once the album didn't take off, 1:42:09.439 --> 1:42:12.519 they started losing interest a little bit. And I think 1:42:12.600 --> 1:42:17.360 maybe though one of the record presidents h Man. They 1:42:17.479 --> 1:42:20.719 may have changed presidents at that time from Bruce Lundball 1:42:20.920 --> 1:42:24.280 to another guy, but I remember, uh that has a 1:42:24.400 --> 1:42:27.960 devastating effect on bands when you're the person that signs 1:42:28.040 --> 1:42:31.120 you gets replaced by another person because they bring it 1:42:31.120 --> 1:42:33.200 a whole another team. So I think it was maybe 1:42:33.240 --> 1:42:38.600 the lack of uh uh the fact that there was 1:42:38.720 --> 1:42:43.560 no hole the line uh on or Georgie Porgy for 1:42:43.640 --> 1:42:47.560 that matter, on on the second album, and uh it 1:42:47.760 --> 1:42:50.280 kind of h we went by the wayside, I think 1:42:50.400 --> 1:42:54.639 for a little bit, and then the third album comes 1:42:54.680 --> 1:42:59.360 out and is less commercially successful. What what do you 1:42:59.439 --> 1:43:03.600 guys think? We're thinking more live show again, this is 1:43:03.680 --> 1:43:08.160 more We've seen Queen in concert. Uh, we'd heard Queen records, 1:43:08.600 --> 1:43:12.120 and we even hired Queen's engineer, Jeff Workman to engineer 1:43:12.200 --> 1:43:15.639 the record, uh because he used to record for Roy 1:43:15.720 --> 1:43:21.080 Thomas Baker r RTB and uh. Uh so we thought 1:43:21.120 --> 1:43:23.960 if we sounded like Queen, we'd be we'd we'd beat Queen, 1:43:24.080 --> 1:43:26.719 you know, kind of our Queen thing. But we still 1:43:26.800 --> 1:43:29.519 did our own Total stuff and we thought we had 1:43:29.680 --> 1:43:32.400 it was. It was just a change of one eighty 1:43:32.479 --> 1:43:35.040 degree change from Total into the big leagues of rock 1:43:35.080 --> 1:43:37.519 and roll. We thought our sound would be bigger and 1:43:37.680 --> 1:43:41.840 more like Zeppelin, e more Queenish on record, and it 1:43:41.880 --> 1:43:45.639 would be driving, driven harder and sound like a big, 1:43:45.880 --> 1:43:48.560 big rock show, you know. And we were playing with 1:43:48.720 --> 1:43:52.680 music more geared for live playing, I think than it 1:43:52.880 --> 1:43:56.400 was for making singles, although we thought there was a 1:43:56.439 --> 1:43:59.920 few singles on there. But uh, again the record company 1:44:00.120 --> 1:44:03.280 changed precedents at that time, right right when that album 1:44:03.360 --> 1:44:06.719 came out, and uh, it had a deaf ear turned 1:44:06.880 --> 1:44:11.839 turned to it. I think. Okay, so what are your thoughts, 1:44:12.120 --> 1:44:15.480 the band's thoughts going into Total four, which in retrospect 1:44:15.600 --> 1:44:18.320 is huge, but you don't know that going in. Yeah, 1:44:18.960 --> 1:44:21.400 we know that we have one more record. The record company, 1:44:21.479 --> 1:44:23.720 let's just know we have one more record to do 1:44:23.960 --> 1:44:27.639 good or that's gonna be it. They thought they wanted 1:44:27.640 --> 1:44:30.599 to prove that we weren't a one hit wonder, which 1:44:30.720 --> 1:44:32.120 by the way, we had more than one hit on 1:44:32.160 --> 1:44:35.840 the on the first album. But we had to prove 1:44:35.920 --> 1:44:38.880 that we still could make hit singles. Uh for the 1:44:38.960 --> 1:44:41.400 record label. You know, they were getting tired of these 1:44:41.439 --> 1:44:47.120 album cuts on Hydra and turn Back. So uh, I 1:44:47.760 --> 1:44:50.439 decided I wanted to make an album that was so 1:44:50.560 --> 1:44:53.840 powerful that was the absolute best we could possibly do. 1:44:54.680 --> 1:44:58.080 And uh so the first song, I started constructing a 1:44:58.200 --> 1:45:02.160 song that I thought would be idea if UH throw 1:45:02.240 --> 1:45:04.800 everything that I know into one single to make a 1:45:04.920 --> 1:45:07.439 hit record, and if that didn't work out, I'd I'd 1:45:07.560 --> 1:45:10.439 hang up, I'd hang it up. And uh I wrote 1:45:10.520 --> 1:45:14.800 Rosanna right then and there kind of constructed it from 1:45:14.840 --> 1:45:19.280 all my all my favorite little devices and riffs and 1:45:19.760 --> 1:45:22.200 and part of my soul, so part of my heartfelt 1:45:22.920 --> 1:45:28.200 lyrics and uh uh while ah we did we I 1:45:28.280 --> 1:45:31.200 got Al Schmidt to engineer it. We called him in 1:45:32.280 --> 1:45:35.599 who's the greatest engineer in the world at that time 1:45:35.880 --> 1:45:39.559 and still has the most Grammys of anybody. Girl Al Schmidt. 1:45:39.560 --> 1:45:42.080 Everybody knows him, and he cut all of our tracks 1:45:42.120 --> 1:45:47.200 at Sunset Sound and from the big beginning of Rosanna, Uh, 1:45:47.880 --> 1:45:50.960 we knew that we had something there. We vited the 1:45:51.000 --> 1:45:55.000 President down who heard the Rosanna and the rough rough mixes, 1:45:55.320 --> 1:45:57.080 and they loved it and told us to keep working 1:45:57.160 --> 1:45:59.320 on the record because we were spending a lot of 1:45:59.360 --> 1:46:03.280 money in studio time doing all the overdubs. At one time, 1:46:03.320 --> 1:46:06.400 we had all three studios at Sunset Sound working on 1:46:06.479 --> 1:46:09.439 our record right there, so we knew. We knew Total 1:46:09.520 --> 1:46:12.120 four was gonna be something special, and we treated it 1:46:12.400 --> 1:46:16.640 as such. We hired, you know, hired Tim Schmidt came 1:46:16.680 --> 1:46:20.439 in saying backgrounds, but Joe Percaro played some percussion. We 1:46:20.600 --> 1:46:24.120 hired James pink how to play trombone on the Rosanna 1:46:24.439 --> 1:46:27.280 I got. We hired heard a lot of great professionals 1:46:27.560 --> 1:46:30.519 to work on that album as well as Uh. I 1:46:30.600 --> 1:46:33.519 think with Miles Stone in the album was when I 1:46:33.600 --> 1:46:37.000 went to U C L. S O in London. McCartney 1:46:37.040 --> 1:46:39.080 had just come out with Live and Let Die, and 1:46:39.160 --> 1:46:41.720 I was so impressed with the orchestra and Live and 1:46:41.800 --> 1:46:44.400 Let Die that I wanted to write something that showed 1:46:44.439 --> 1:46:47.479 off the orchestra, which we ended up bright doing Lucather 1:46:47.600 --> 1:46:52.720 and myself. Uh started work did Afraid of Love, which 1:46:52.800 --> 1:46:55.080 features the L H L S O on it, And 1:46:55.160 --> 1:46:58.720 I think that in an impact and powerful was was 1:46:58.800 --> 1:47:03.479 really powerful. Uh that addition to our sound and uh, 1:47:03.840 --> 1:47:05.800 I just think there was a lot of more co 1:47:06.000 --> 1:47:08.280 writing on that album as well. So I think that 1:47:08.400 --> 1:47:12.240 our our whole uh standard or the bar was raised 1:47:12.320 --> 1:47:17.240 on that album. Okay, a lot of great tracks on 1:47:17.360 --> 1:47:21.639 that album. Make believe who says the Crimson Moon doesn't shine? 1:47:22.520 --> 1:47:26.040 If you remember I wrote that, Yes I do. Don't 1:47:26.080 --> 1:47:28.800 ask me what it means, but uh, that's just one 1:47:28.840 --> 1:47:30.920 of my lyrics, you know what I mean? You know, 1:47:32.840 --> 1:47:35.000 I was, I was. I was in love at the time. 1:47:35.080 --> 1:47:39.599 I think. You know. The album is gigantic, sells twelve 1:47:39.720 --> 1:47:42.920 million copies, wins all these Grammys. What was it like 1:47:43.479 --> 1:47:47.560 being on the inside, Uh what of the Grammys or 1:47:47.760 --> 1:47:49.960 being on the inside of the time period, Being the 1:47:50.040 --> 1:47:53.000 inside of the success. Grammys are secondary. It was great 1:47:53.160 --> 1:47:55.760 because It just validated a lot of stuff that we 1:47:56.439 --> 1:47:59.160 already thought that we were. We already knew that we 1:47:59.240 --> 1:48:02.960 were pretty good because we had confidence from doing sessions 1:48:03.320 --> 1:48:05.960 and from our first album, so we already knew that 1:48:06.960 --> 1:48:11.920 kind of Well, this helped validate our band and gave 1:48:12.000 --> 1:48:15.400 us confidences. Mainly, we gained a whole lot of confidence 1:48:15.960 --> 1:48:19.960 and uh uh you know, we had our fifteen seconds 1:48:20.080 --> 1:48:25.719 of uh fame there and everybody was interviewing us. Everybody 1:48:25.800 --> 1:48:28.760 wanted to know Toto, and uh, we just kind of 1:48:28.840 --> 1:48:32.320 took the stride. But we've been around success in stars before, 1:48:32.760 --> 1:48:34.400 so we didn't let it go to our heads because 1:48:34.439 --> 1:48:36.840 we had all the other producers and all the other 1:48:36.920 --> 1:48:40.120 our peers and colleagues were there to keep us in line. 1:48:40.320 --> 1:48:45.040 You know. So the next album, how does Bobby Kim 1:48:45.120 --> 1:48:51.479 Believe and Frugie Frederickson come in? Okay, Um, I'm not 1:48:51.560 --> 1:48:56.400 gonna ponder this, uh stay dwell on this subject too long. 1:48:56.479 --> 1:48:59.200 But Bobby ended up being one of those persons that 1:48:59.280 --> 1:49:02.200 couldn't handle success as well as the rest of us 1:49:02.240 --> 1:49:06.760 good and uh it got out of hand uh to 1:49:06.880 --> 1:49:09.920 where uh we were trying to record and he was 1:49:10.320 --> 1:49:14.320 stopped showing up for vocals. So Jeff just put his 1:49:14.360 --> 1:49:17.280 foot down and said, we've got to get someone here immediately, 1:49:17.439 --> 1:49:19.200 because we had a we had a half of an 1:49:19.200 --> 1:49:23.400 album written that we had recorded with him, was Those Isolation, 1:49:23.800 --> 1:49:27.920 And Jeff said, heard this singer, Fergie Frederickson from this 1:49:28.520 --> 1:49:33.320 Louisiana band, and at that moment, it seemed just like 1:49:33.400 --> 1:49:37.040 a beam of light, uh, a guy who could sing 1:49:37.200 --> 1:49:41.040 up high, a guy who looked good, who could uh 1:49:41.560 --> 1:49:45.280 perform good on stage. And we we thought total thought 1:49:46.479 --> 1:49:48.559 our rhythm section. We really thought we had the magic, 1:49:48.720 --> 1:49:51.400 the mightas touch with singers because we had worked with 1:49:51.479 --> 1:49:55.040 Leo Sayer, Boss Scaggs, just about every singer out there, 1:49:55.560 --> 1:49:58.080 and we had been made hit records with people. So 1:49:58.200 --> 1:50:00.920 we thought, it's just another sing We'll bring this singer 1:50:00.960 --> 1:50:03.920 in and we'll mold him into being that that front 1:50:04.000 --> 1:50:07.400 man that you need so badly for your identity. Now, 1:50:07.479 --> 1:50:10.360 in retrospect, I wish I'd gone in a different direction 1:50:10.880 --> 1:50:14.240 and we and we'd had still uh you know, made 1:50:14.439 --> 1:50:18.160 uh some course corrections back there and kept bobbying the band. 1:50:18.720 --> 1:50:21.880 But it's just what didn't work out that way. Well, 1:50:21.960 --> 1:50:24.840 needless to say, you have this gigantic album and it's 1:50:24.880 --> 1:50:30.160 not commercially successful. How disheartening was that? It was very disheartening. 1:50:30.479 --> 1:50:33.080 First of all, the they shipped a whole lot of records, 1:50:33.360 --> 1:50:36.679 and a lot of records were rack jobbers. Got stuck 1:50:36.720 --> 1:50:39.600 with their records, and they weren't happy about that. So 1:50:39.760 --> 1:50:42.000 we got a bad rap on the fact that the 1:50:42.080 --> 1:50:46.240 album was overhyped and this wasn't the same singer, and uh, 1:50:46.320 --> 1:50:49.400 it's just kind of uh uh boomeranged on us a 1:50:49.439 --> 1:50:53.960 little bit there. Now, if you talk to Steve, he 1:50:55.160 --> 1:50:59.559 will talk about the backlash people talking shit about Toto. 1:51:00.400 --> 1:51:04.040 Did you feel the same way? Um, I got a 1:51:04.080 --> 1:51:07.240 little thicker skin than Steve does. But yeah, you know, 1:51:07.360 --> 1:51:11.080 when every time anybody starts picking apart lyrics are picking 1:51:11.160 --> 1:51:14.400 up art songs, I you know, I have feelings the 1:51:14.479 --> 1:51:16.519 same as the other guy, but I I've learned to 1:51:16.800 --> 1:51:18.760 let him roll off my back a little bit more. 1:51:19.200 --> 1:51:22.280 But but there's certain times when we were a band 1:51:22.720 --> 1:51:27.160 where we all jointly we're reading bad press for us 1:51:27.520 --> 1:51:31.080 and getting a piste off about it, you know, because 1:51:31.120 --> 1:51:33.920 we do something we thought would be great in Rolling 1:51:34.000 --> 1:51:37.200 Stone magazine. We were doing great work with other artists, 1:51:37.600 --> 1:51:40.760 and every time they just find a total member in 1:51:41.960 --> 1:51:44.400 on the album, they would say something bad about the 1:51:45.080 --> 1:51:48.040 total member, you know what I mean. So everywhere we 1:51:48.120 --> 1:51:51.160 were getting bad pressed. You know, So, how do you 1:51:51.320 --> 1:51:56.439 kick Freddie Frederick Fergie Frederickson out of the band. You're 1:51:56.479 --> 1:52:03.720 going deep on me. Uh again, when you have personnel 1:52:04.200 --> 1:52:07.679 that you go through, how can I say this? There's 1:52:07.880 --> 1:52:11.360 like a like a team that puts in a player 1:52:12.000 --> 1:52:13.760 and they don't work out and you have to bring 1:52:13.840 --> 1:52:16.479 in a new player. We were having to. We were 1:52:16.640 --> 1:52:20.720 treating the lead singer positions just like it was a variable, 1:52:20.760 --> 1:52:23.920 a concert spot that we could fill with somebody else 1:52:24.280 --> 1:52:27.760 and we could replace that person. Uh. Fergie just it 1:52:27.880 --> 1:52:29.880 wasn't a fit, That's all I can tell you. It 1:52:30.000 --> 1:52:33.519 just it just wasn't quite a fit. And people's reaction 1:52:33.680 --> 1:52:38.200 to him wasn't that good. And our record sales um 1:52:39.000 --> 1:52:41.960 record company again we had to tell the president that 1:52:42.160 --> 1:52:46.000 wasn't running, wasn't in our pocket as far as the 1:52:46.080 --> 1:52:51.120 records go, and so uh uh uh we weren't getting 1:52:51.200 --> 1:52:54.559 much help from the label because of a single nut 1:52:54.600 --> 1:52:57.679 popping off there which we thought they chose the wrong single. 1:52:58.200 --> 1:53:01.840 But uh uh so that helped. Uh. We just started 1:53:01.880 --> 1:53:04.519 looking around, and Steve Lucather started singing more and more 1:53:05.240 --> 1:53:10.960 and uh, uh we had started having background singers singing 1:53:11.400 --> 1:53:14.679 some lead vocals and stuff to replace our lead vocalist. 1:53:14.760 --> 1:53:18.080 And uh, he just kind of evolved out of the band. 1:53:19.240 --> 1:53:22.880 And why did hung Gate leave? Hung Gate just didn't 1:53:22.920 --> 1:53:24.599 like going on the road home. Gate was a home 1:53:25.240 --> 1:53:28.200 home body and he didn't like like touring that much. 1:53:28.240 --> 1:53:31.280 He had been touring with Sunny and Share ever since 1:53:31.520 --> 1:53:35.400 he was in college. And uh, when Toto kept wanting 1:53:35.439 --> 1:53:40.360 to tour, Uh, Toto originally was gonna make records, tour 1:53:40.400 --> 1:53:42.719 a little bit, but still do sessions all the time. 1:53:43.200 --> 1:53:45.080 You know. It was kind of like our our side 1:53:45.120 --> 1:53:47.439 gig Toto was gonna be until it became our full 1:53:47.520 --> 1:53:51.519 time job, you know. And uh, he just wanted to 1:53:51.520 --> 1:53:57.479 stay home. Okay, how does Joseph Williams get in the band? Joseph? 1:53:57.840 --> 1:54:01.639 Good question. Joseph knew Lucather back when they were fourteen 1:54:01.720 --> 1:54:06.160 years old. Uh, from high school, I think, And uh, 1:54:07.280 --> 1:54:11.000 Jeff was aware of his talent and I was aware, 1:54:11.120 --> 1:54:17.680 and I became aware of Joseph on twilight Zone, the 1:54:17.760 --> 1:54:22.439 movie the Spielberg produced which Joe Joe they had called 1:54:22.479 --> 1:54:26.240 in Joe to do a demo vocal for the song 1:54:26.400 --> 1:54:29.679 that he wrote for the opening sequence in Twilight Zone 1:54:29.760 --> 1:54:32.520 the movie. So I went down to where they were 1:54:32.560 --> 1:54:35.560 recording it because I played on the track, and they said, 1:54:35.600 --> 1:54:38.200 well who should we get to sing? And Joseph was 1:54:38.240 --> 1:54:41.640 standing there and he sounded amazing on the vocal. I said, well, 1:54:41.800 --> 1:54:44.200 you have your singeries right here, get him to sing. 1:54:44.320 --> 1:54:46.800 So I had heard him sing. But then when we 1:54:46.880 --> 1:54:49.880 were looking for another sing we're looking for this is 1:54:49.960 --> 1:54:53.880 just after Isolation, We're looking for another singer, and we 1:54:54.040 --> 1:54:57.440 tried out some singers, but then we jammed with Joseph 1:54:57.640 --> 1:55:00.760 in a in a rehearsal hall, and Joseph so fast 1:55:01.160 --> 1:55:03.800 and had such good pitch and it was so hip 1:55:04.080 --> 1:55:06.880 that it was just undeniable that he should be the singer, 1:55:06.880 --> 1:55:10.240 our singer, because he was. He just he clicked. It 1:55:10.360 --> 1:55:14.280 was a fit. That album is my favorite Toto album. 1:55:14.880 --> 1:55:18.360 Certainly had a hit with I'll Be Over You. Do 1:55:18.440 --> 1:55:22.200 you feel like the engine was running on high test again? 1:55:22.360 --> 1:55:25.560 What was it like being on the absolutely absolutely when 1:55:25.600 --> 1:55:29.000 Lucather had I'll be over You? Uh and Steve Is 1:55:29.560 --> 1:55:32.960 his songs are like my favorite songs there I think 1:55:33.000 --> 1:55:36.800 they're the best written, the most well written songs in 1:55:36.920 --> 1:55:39.360 our catalog, which is Won't Hold You Back and I'll 1:55:39.400 --> 1:55:42.240 be over You. That comes from me. Who's you have 1:55:42.440 --> 1:55:45.600 yet as yet to write a love ballad? Okay, Well, 1:55:45.640 --> 1:55:49.000 the funny thing is those are such sensitive songs, and 1:55:49.600 --> 1:55:52.960 he really is a sensitive guy, but he presents so differently. 1:55:53.640 --> 1:55:56.960 He certainly does. That's the He's a real paradox, you know. 1:55:57.600 --> 1:56:02.600 And uh, uh, Luca, there will I'll be over you. 1:56:02.880 --> 1:56:05.400 We brought in Mike McDonald to sing backgrounds and I'll 1:56:05.440 --> 1:56:07.960 be over you, and again we had an album budget 1:56:08.080 --> 1:56:10.920 to do videos. That's when videos are really big. We 1:56:11.000 --> 1:56:15.400 did a video for that and uh uh again I thought, 1:56:15.480 --> 1:56:17.760 I thought that, uh, it's not the same without your 1:56:17.800 --> 1:56:20.200 love was gonna be a smash hit and it didn't be. 1:56:20.840 --> 1:56:23.520 Wasn't a hit, you know, same way Africa. No one 1:56:23.600 --> 1:56:25.680 thought Africa was gonna be a hit, but it became 1:56:25.720 --> 1:56:30.640 a hit. So odd things happen. Sometimes magic just happens 1:56:30.720 --> 1:56:32.680 out of nowhere, you know what I mean. But back 1:56:32.760 --> 1:56:35.800 to the alb over you, Uh, Steve started coming along 1:56:36.280 --> 1:56:40.320 singing more, and uh that was a really good sign 1:56:40.400 --> 1:56:42.800 of our being able to say, well, we still got 1:56:42.880 --> 1:56:46.600 the core guys. We still have David Page who sang 1:56:46.640 --> 1:56:48.880 on Africa, and we have Steve Lucather that sang on 1:56:49.080 --> 1:56:54.680 I won't hold you back. Okay, you kick Williams out 1:56:54.720 --> 1:57:00.520 of the band, How does that happen? Uh, I'm gonna 1:57:00.560 --> 1:57:04.520 love move along faster. This just some of our road habits. 1:57:04.720 --> 1:57:08.440 Just people weren't taking the care of themselves. I wasn't 1:57:08.480 --> 1:57:11.600 taking care of myself. Joe wasn't. The road is very 1:57:11.680 --> 1:57:14.560 hard and uh, it's hard enough when you have to 1:57:14.640 --> 1:57:17.760 go out and wine and dying. Uh. Promoters and uh 1:57:18.160 --> 1:57:22.960 and uh have different managers after each show, and there's 1:57:22.960 --> 1:57:25.200 a lot of drinking going on, a lot of uh 1:57:25.440 --> 1:57:30.120 this going on, um Joe uh uh, it just didn't 1:57:30.120 --> 1:57:33.400 become a fit uh after that, and we had to 1:57:33.440 --> 1:57:36.320 make a change. And I'm just gonna make a left 1:57:36.360 --> 1:57:38.440 turn right here and move on and put that into 1:57:38.440 --> 1:57:40.720 a rear view mirror. Okay, But he does sing on 1:57:40.880 --> 1:57:44.400 the seventh one, which you have a hit again. So 1:57:44.640 --> 1:57:47.800 what's the vibe in the band? Then? Vibe is very good, 1:57:48.000 --> 1:57:53.040 very positive. Joe's doing great. Uh uh. He sang on 1:57:53.120 --> 1:57:58.920 that whole record and uh, um, the Vibe. On the 1:57:59.040 --> 1:58:01.600 seventh one, you and I had co co wrote a 1:58:01.680 --> 1:58:05.160 song called Pamela, which became a believe it or not, 1:58:05.280 --> 1:58:07.800 a very big record. It was it was destined to 1:58:07.840 --> 1:58:11.000 be number top ten and it was headed it was 1:58:11.160 --> 1:58:15.080 the top thirty with a bullet and again CBS closed 1:58:15.120 --> 1:58:19.240 their doors Sony and fired the president at the time, 1:58:19.800 --> 1:58:22.560 and they dropped the Springsteen record, which was number fifteen 1:58:22.600 --> 1:58:25.400 with a bullet that fell off the charts, and our record, 1:58:25.480 --> 1:58:28.160 which was top thirty, which is called Pamela. We had 1:58:28.200 --> 1:58:31.040 every station in the country except a big station in 1:58:31.160 --> 1:58:33.200 New York that we needed, and it would have been 1:58:33.240 --> 1:58:37.520 top ten. But anyway, back to Joseph, him and I 1:58:37.680 --> 1:58:41.280 wrote a Pamela together and that kind of uh uh, 1:58:42.920 --> 1:58:46.800 blew some wind back into our sales. Okay, then it 1:58:47.120 --> 1:58:51.040 ends with Sony. Why is it end with Sony? I 1:58:51.200 --> 1:58:56.560 think just there lack of interest, lack of participation with us. 1:58:57.320 --> 1:58:59.160 You know, it's hard to it's hard to say what 1:58:59.360 --> 1:59:02.000 exactly put your finger on it. You know. I think 1:59:02.040 --> 1:59:04.280 if you're not the flavor of the month and you're 1:59:04.480 --> 1:59:07.560 in the team that signs you, isn't there. I think 1:59:07.600 --> 1:59:09.680 that you don't have the same kind of support that 1:59:09.840 --> 1:59:12.360 you do when you have like you know, look at 1:59:12.440 --> 1:59:15.240 Moe Austin, how long he was at Warner Brothers. Look 1:59:15.280 --> 1:59:17.640 at her Aboutpert with a and m how long these 1:59:17.680 --> 1:59:20.040 guys and they with sign these acts and they nurture 1:59:20.120 --> 1:59:22.240 them and they believe in them. You know where other 1:59:22.360 --> 1:59:27.600 companies uh uh they change presidents and they change uh 1:59:28.200 --> 1:59:32.800 support teams. So uh uh it's hard to say, uh 1:59:33.000 --> 1:59:35.960 what exactly why we got We kept being on Legacy, 1:59:36.120 --> 1:59:39.240 which is a subsidiary of Sony, because we were making 1:59:39.320 --> 1:59:42.560 smaller out we were making we had lesser of a budget, 1:59:42.920 --> 1:59:46.720 and we were uh starting to record in our home 1:59:46.800 --> 1:59:50.760 studios a little bit more. You know. So how do 1:59:50.920 --> 1:59:54.640 you feel? Do you you're not gonna have another hit single? 1:59:54.760 --> 1:59:58.640 Do you realize that? What's you know, what's the vibe? Well, 1:59:58.720 --> 2:00:02.920 this is what I do. I'm gonna continue to do it. Yeah, 2:00:03.000 --> 2:00:04.640 that's so that's the vibe. We're not going to rely 2:00:04.760 --> 2:00:08.400 on our singles. We always feel we have that uh 2:00:08.800 --> 2:00:12.040 plenty of singles left, but we're not intentionally writing like 2:00:12.400 --> 2:00:16.000 that big hit single. Uh. We were trying to be 2:00:16.080 --> 2:00:19.040 more of a rock band at that time and be 2:00:19.160 --> 2:00:25.680 a live, a big live event band. You know, So 2:00:26.640 --> 2:00:30.440 after the hits, after the Columbia Days, are you are 2:00:30.480 --> 2:00:33.440 you basically in Toto and that's your career or do 2:00:33.520 --> 2:00:37.360 you go back to doing sessions or I don't think 2:00:37.400 --> 2:00:40.960 the sessions of every really stopped, but yes, everybody went 2:00:41.000 --> 2:00:43.920 back to sessions what there were of them. I think 2:00:44.000 --> 2:00:48.800 that that around that time, Um, after we did Kingdom 2:00:48.880 --> 2:00:51.480 of Desire, because that was with Jeff and and Bob 2:00:51.560 --> 2:00:55.720 clair Mountain, we eventually got did uh Through the Looking Glass, 2:00:55.880 --> 2:01:00.680 Through the Through the Looking Mirror anyway. Uh, it was 2:01:00.760 --> 2:01:03.480 a total album where we did all cover songs where 2:01:03.520 --> 2:01:05.400 we weren't on any label at all. We just did 2:01:05.480 --> 2:01:10.040 it ourselves and did it uh at Simon Phillips House, 2:01:10.600 --> 2:01:14.120 recording the whole thing, and uh it was amazing, and 2:01:14.400 --> 2:01:17.560 uh that's we kind of just chummed around and uh 2:01:18.080 --> 2:01:20.960 uh did the record dates and kept working on our 2:01:21.240 --> 2:01:23.840 our albums. Meanwhile, I think Luke was working on solo 2:01:23.920 --> 2:01:27.360 records in between that. I think I have my chronology right. 2:01:27.720 --> 2:01:31.560 Probably not. Lucather has a steel trap memory and he 2:01:31.680 --> 2:01:35.760 can recall any date, any concert, any day. It's amazing. 2:01:35.800 --> 2:01:39.200 I'm an exact opposite. Uh so, Uh I hope that 2:01:39.240 --> 2:01:42.320 answers your question. Yeah, and how does Bobby Kimball get 2:01:42.400 --> 2:01:46.720 back in the band? Huh? Well, he kind of got 2:01:46.840 --> 2:01:50.200 his act together and everybody had heard that he was 2:01:50.280 --> 2:01:53.320 doing well and cleaned up, and everybody was dying to 2:01:53.400 --> 2:01:56.200 get here Kimball sing back with the band. So we 2:01:56.320 --> 2:01:58.640 were like, well, if he's together, if he's in shape 2:01:58.680 --> 2:02:02.640 and physically and hew theme mentally, mentally and in into it, 2:02:03.040 --> 2:02:05.560 we thought we'd give it another shot. And how did 2:02:05.640 --> 2:02:07.920 it end with him again? And then Joseph Williams come 2:02:07.960 --> 2:02:14.680 back again? Boy, this says you're gonna be a broken 2:02:14.720 --> 2:02:18.840 record on that. Huh. Now, I'm just kidding. Um uh, 2:02:19.440 --> 2:02:28.000 let's see Bobby uh again. Uh, I'm I'm not really sure. 2:02:28.720 --> 2:02:31.520 It just was kind of falling out I think personality wise, 2:02:31.880 --> 2:02:35.080 and it was never really a fit with Bobby in 2:02:35.200 --> 2:02:37.680 the first place. I mean, because we all used to 2:02:37.720 --> 2:02:40.880 hang out in high school. Bobby was older than we were, okay, 2:02:41.280 --> 2:02:44.400 so we weren't. He kind of kept to himself and 2:02:44.520 --> 2:02:49.240 we kind of all chummed around together from high school days. So, uh, 2:02:49.560 --> 2:02:52.560 I think it was just chumming around and getting going. 2:02:52.720 --> 2:02:56.000 You know, we're this isn't he's not working out live 2:02:56.240 --> 2:02:59.000 because you start falling back into some of the old 2:02:59.600 --> 2:03:03.800 UH problems and habits UH which prevent you from going 2:03:03.880 --> 2:03:08.160 on the road um and performing every night, you know 2:03:08.240 --> 2:03:10.560 what I mean, and taking care of your voice and 2:03:10.680 --> 2:03:13.000 doing all this stuff. And that's when we realized that 2:03:13.080 --> 2:03:17.520 we needed a singer that knew us but could could 2:03:18.480 --> 2:03:20.880 go on the road because the physical aspects of going 2:03:20.920 --> 2:03:25.200 on the road are are terribly hard, you know, to 2:03:25.440 --> 2:03:31.520 travel and bus plains easier. Okay. The music business, meanwhile, 2:03:31.680 --> 2:03:36.480 starts to change, Rock starts to fade, hip hop comes in, 2:03:36.800 --> 2:03:42.320 the napster comes in, and today everything's blown apart. So 2:03:42.480 --> 2:03:44.960 where do you see yourself in the landscape or do 2:03:45.040 --> 2:03:47.120 you just feel I'm separate from the landscape and I 2:03:47.200 --> 2:03:50.920 do what I do a little bit of both. I 2:03:51.080 --> 2:03:54.480 feel ingrained in the landscape, musical landscape. I feel part 2:03:54.520 --> 2:03:58.960 of it for the last forty years, and uh uh, 2:03:59.680 --> 2:04:03.120 I I roll with the punches. You know, music is funny. 2:04:03.240 --> 2:04:06.200 Everybody in the band has their own opinion about the 2:04:06.560 --> 2:04:10.240 direction music takes. You know. I I opened my arms 2:04:10.320 --> 2:04:13.720 to wrap rap music when it came around, not the 2:04:13.800 --> 2:04:16.760 original stuff, but when they started covering some of my 2:04:16.960 --> 2:04:20.280 songs and and and cutting and pasting them and mashing 2:04:20.360 --> 2:04:23.440 them up. I was like more way into it, you know, 2:04:23.760 --> 2:04:26.920 just like I always took the Quincy Jones attitude, which 2:04:26.960 --> 2:04:29.520 is the more of the merrier, and and music has 2:04:29.560 --> 2:04:33.040 to move on, you know. So Uh, basically we're a 2:04:33.080 --> 2:04:35.880 half rock and roll and half of it. Half of 2:04:36.000 --> 2:04:38.440 us wanted to move on a little bit with hip hop. 2:04:38.640 --> 2:04:42.080 But again back in the talk about hip hop, Waiting 2:04:42.120 --> 2:04:44.040 for Your Love was the song on the Total four 2:04:44.160 --> 2:04:46.640 record that was like one of the first hip hop 2:04:46.760 --> 2:04:49.400 songs as far as I'm concerned. In the band was 2:04:49.480 --> 2:04:53.360 concerned too, so we all, well we understood it, why 2:04:53.440 --> 2:04:56.160 people were digging it, and and uh one of the 2:04:56.480 --> 2:05:00.360 the uh classic songs that came out and showed showed 2:05:00.400 --> 2:05:03.640 us all what we should be doing with rap was Aerosmith, 2:05:03.880 --> 2:05:07.280 who did Walk This Way with the run DMC. There 2:05:07.480 --> 2:05:09.480 there was the there was the guiding light right there. 2:05:09.760 --> 2:05:13.120 That's how rock and rollers should treat rap music and rappers, 2:05:13.200 --> 2:05:17.800 you know. So in any event, Uh, I've tried to 2:05:17.960 --> 2:05:20.080 uh you know a lot of people have covered uh 2:05:20.760 --> 2:05:25.240 Georgie Porgy and Africa and stuff. So I've opened my 2:05:25.680 --> 2:05:29.760 my heart to uh wrapped my arms around uh people 2:05:29.840 --> 2:05:33.600 mashing up records of mine. And eventually Lucather got into 2:05:33.680 --> 2:05:36.480 it too when they started doing his uh making disco 2:05:36.600 --> 2:05:39.800 mixes of his songs. So uh, a little by little, 2:05:40.160 --> 2:05:43.120 uh you started the the old horses started learning new tricks. 2:05:43.960 --> 2:05:47.120 And did people reach out and license or did you 2:05:47.200 --> 2:05:51.080 have to find out people who ripped off your records? Uh? 2:05:51.400 --> 2:05:53.760 There were people that would you would think I would 2:05:53.920 --> 2:05:56.920 never call it ripping up people without permission, without sync 2:05:57.120 --> 2:06:00.560 permission had performed our records. But all we would do 2:06:00.720 --> 2:06:03.360 is call them and let them know that you guys 2:06:03.480 --> 2:06:06.160 will have oh this money for our record. And they 2:06:06.200 --> 2:06:09.120 were gladly. They were like, here, take half the song, 2:06:09.280 --> 2:06:12.080 take all the song. We're we're we have no problem 2:06:12.160 --> 2:06:15.720 with that. We would we would make people aware that 2:06:15.840 --> 2:06:21.440 they were uh in potential breach and uh uh they 2:06:21.480 --> 2:06:25.400 would gladly split anything he wants uh and make a deal. 2:06:26.320 --> 2:06:29.080 So we grew up in the era where the Beatles broke. 2:06:29.400 --> 2:06:33.720 Everybody picked up an instrument, they played in bands. There 2:06:33.840 --> 2:06:37.040 was a band everywhere, and there were ups and downs. 2:06:37.120 --> 2:06:43.520 There were some disco DJ whatever, But that scene has 2:06:43.640 --> 2:06:47.000 really been undercut. You know, the old scene of well, 2:06:47.040 --> 2:06:49.040 I'm gonna play in my band, I'm gonna work the 2:06:49.080 --> 2:06:51.320 way there aren't some people who do it, but most 2:06:51.360 --> 2:06:54.040 stuff is cut it home and most stuff is electronic. 2:06:54.560 --> 2:06:57.920 How do you feel about today's music do you think 2:06:58.400 --> 2:07:03.840 and the fact that rock is not primary? Uh? I 2:07:03.920 --> 2:07:07.600 have mixed feelings about it. I I I like a 2:07:07.720 --> 2:07:10.200 lot some of those stuff that's being done today. I 2:07:10.360 --> 2:07:13.920 understand it. Maybe it's because I understand the process of 2:07:14.040 --> 2:07:17.840 how it's done on pro tools and with logic and uh, 2:07:18.120 --> 2:07:21.720 and how they humanize it. Uh. Funny someone said something 2:07:21.760 --> 2:07:23.080 to me the other day and he just hit home. 2:07:23.520 --> 2:07:26.160 We grew up in a band of when bands were popular, 2:07:26.520 --> 2:07:30.200 and now singers are popular singers because singers are everything 2:07:30.240 --> 2:07:33.280 they make. They make everything humanized. You hear all these 2:07:33.360 --> 2:07:37.000 incredible girl vocalists and some incredible guys out there too. 2:07:37.120 --> 2:07:39.520 But you put a kick ass singer on a on 2:07:39.640 --> 2:07:44.320 a sterile dance track and it's gonna sound incredible, you know. 2:07:44.840 --> 2:07:50.040 So Uh, and some people make musical strides and uh, 2:07:50.680 --> 2:07:52.920 Kendrick Lamar, I guess he is doing some some good 2:07:53.080 --> 2:07:56.160 out there, and uh, he seems to be ahead of 2:07:56.240 --> 2:08:00.880 the game. And uh. Um I I like. I like 2:08:01.080 --> 2:08:04.600 the process of using the modern technology with why I 2:08:04.720 --> 2:08:08.040 make records personally, uh, being a chance that I don't have. 2:08:08.320 --> 2:08:10.240 I don't have the luxury of being able to have 2:08:10.400 --> 2:08:13.000 these people that live in different cities at my beck 2:08:13.080 --> 2:08:15.880 and call to get in a room and play. I 2:08:16.000 --> 2:08:18.160 try and make do with what I have, and these 2:08:18.240 --> 2:08:21.360 tools allow you to do that. I love mash ups. 2:08:21.720 --> 2:08:25.880 I love the new genres, the mashing up genres and 2:08:26.120 --> 2:08:30.160 all the kind of experimentation. I think because I I 2:08:30.320 --> 2:08:33.920 just grew up in the and the Beatles era Sergeant Pepper, 2:08:34.280 --> 2:08:38.520 where they tried everything imaginable on tape and and uh, 2:08:39.120 --> 2:08:42.640 all kinds of things between sound effects, playing shipped backwards 2:08:43.000 --> 2:08:45.560 and doing everything they open the floodgates as far as 2:08:45.600 --> 2:08:48.760 I was concerned. And do you keep up on modern 2:08:48.920 --> 2:08:52.360 music or you're just kind of aware? I'm kind of aware. 2:08:52.400 --> 2:08:54.680 I don't keep up as much as I should. I have. 2:08:54.880 --> 2:08:56.640 I have a daughter, a thirty three year old daughter 2:08:56.920 --> 2:09:00.240 that keeps me in the know. Uh, real cool, you 2:09:00.320 --> 2:09:03.440 know what I mean. And but as far as me knowing, 2:09:03.760 --> 2:09:06.080 I listened to the radio a lot when I'm driving. 2:09:06.480 --> 2:09:08.880 Serious radio a lot of its Beatle channel, but I'll 2:09:08.880 --> 2:09:12.200 occasionally listen to some other channels, and uh again, I 2:09:12.320 --> 2:09:14.960 like people out there. I like Uh, I like Adele, 2:09:15.320 --> 2:09:18.720 I like Pink, I like Harry Styles is pretty good. 2:09:19.320 --> 2:09:22.600 I like Sam Smith, you know, but they're mostly they're 2:09:22.640 --> 2:09:27.879 mostly singers, you know, and you know, once the business 2:09:28.080 --> 2:09:35.120 hit turmoil, certainly in thousand, Napster budgets went down, sessions 2:09:35.240 --> 2:09:39.360 dried up. Are there any sessions and anymore? Anybody ever 2:09:39.440 --> 2:09:43.480 call you all need to do overdubs? You know. I 2:09:43.560 --> 2:09:45.560 got called from Mike McDonald to do do do some 2:09:45.720 --> 2:09:50.400 overdubs on his album. Don Felder called me, Uh, the 2:09:50.480 --> 2:09:53.120 only movie sessions that are really being done now are 2:09:53.240 --> 2:09:56.280 movie sessions or for video games. My daughter is a 2:09:56.360 --> 2:09:59.320 video game producer and she's doing sessions all the time, 2:09:59.640 --> 2:10:05.040 but they're with orchestras, and uh uh, Like I said, 2:10:05.560 --> 2:10:07.640 a few sessions are being done here and there, but 2:10:07.760 --> 2:10:11.160 not really live sessions that I know about, except in Nashville. 2:10:11.200 --> 2:10:13.280 I think they still do them in Nashville quite a bit. 2:10:13.960 --> 2:10:16.120 Uh That, which is kind of becoming the new recording 2:10:16.200 --> 2:10:20.040 capital that l A was as the recording capital, you know, right, 2:10:20.200 --> 2:10:24.000 So what's next for you personally? Next? Rest I'm trying 2:10:24.000 --> 2:10:28.360 to improve my songwriting. I'm trying to improve my lyric writing. Uh. 2:10:29.080 --> 2:10:32.160 I've just wrote a song with Shania Twain, who I've 2:10:32.160 --> 2:10:34.520 been a big fan of for a long time. I 2:10:34.600 --> 2:10:38.880 might be getting ready to write with Richard Marks uh 2:10:39.000 --> 2:10:41.640 co write something for his album with him. And so 2:10:41.760 --> 2:10:44.320 I'm just trying to better myself as a piano player 2:10:44.720 --> 2:10:47.200 and as a songwriter and be the best version of 2:10:47.320 --> 2:10:50.480 myself that I can. And when we see another solo 2:10:50.600 --> 2:10:55.560 album from you, possibly, possibly, I'd like to do one, 2:10:55.880 --> 2:10:59.200 but not in the near future. Okay, David, this has 2:10:59.240 --> 2:11:01.840 been fanta stick, you know, from someone who was there, 2:11:01.840 --> 2:11:04.560 a real inside view. I want to thank you for 2:11:04.640 --> 2:11:07.120 taking the time. But Bob, I have so much more 2:11:07.200 --> 2:11:11.120 to tell you. Is that a joker? You really know? 2:11:11.760 --> 2:11:15.240 It's really okay? Well, just just just a preview. We're 2:11:15.280 --> 2:11:18.160 not gonna go into it now. But if we did 2:11:18.280 --> 2:11:22.480 talk more, what would we talk about? Weston? Grab that 2:11:22.560 --> 2:11:25.880 picture off the wall. I'll just show you a little 2:11:25.880 --> 2:11:27.720 bit more about my past. Here. I've got a picture 2:11:27.760 --> 2:11:31.560 I want to show you. This is when I was 2:11:31.640 --> 2:11:35.360 in London in nineteen seven, the Summer of Love. I 2:11:35.480 --> 2:11:39.920 was at Olympic Studios, where watching Procol Harem record their 2:11:40.000 --> 2:11:42.920 first album. But my dad was recording Sammy Davis Jr. 2:11:43.160 --> 2:11:45.360 And here's the proof of it right here. If you 2:11:45.400 --> 2:11:49.280 can see that. Can you see wow? Just being next 2:11:49.320 --> 2:11:52.960 to Sammy? Okay, I was thirteen. That was two year 2:11:52.960 --> 2:11:57.600 and happy before I met Jeff. Unbelievable. That's at Olympic Studios, 2:11:57.720 --> 2:12:01.280 just to show you the the amazing stuff I saw 2:12:01.360 --> 2:12:04.280 in my life was was before Toto ever started, was 2:12:04.360 --> 2:12:07.600 with my dad, you know, and everything right now. Another 2:12:07.680 --> 2:12:09.800 thing I'm doing that I'm really interested in is I'm 2:12:09.960 --> 2:12:14.240 archiving my father's arrangements with the Eastman School of Music, 2:12:14.560 --> 2:12:18.640 who has started a jazz program teaching Marty Paige the 2:12:18.760 --> 2:12:21.920 style of writing that he did, which is famous for 2:12:22.000 --> 2:12:25.840 West Coast writing. And so they're they're making they're making 2:12:25.920 --> 2:12:28.840 prints of it, and they're making recordings of it and 2:12:29.040 --> 2:12:33.000 keeping the jazz alive, which is our real art art 2:12:33.080 --> 2:12:35.920 form that we've contributed up in the United States to 2:12:36.040 --> 2:12:39.160 the world is jazz is the art of jazz. Keeping 2:12:39.200 --> 2:12:42.839 that alive, you know. So I'm involved in that too, okay. 2:12:43.400 --> 2:12:45.360 And how did you decide to wear the top hat? 2:12:46.560 --> 2:12:50.200 A top hat? It's kind of right of passage. You know, 2:12:50.840 --> 2:12:54.560 Leon had that with mad Dogs and Englishmen. Although I 2:12:54.680 --> 2:12:58.920 do my one of my biggest heroes is WC. Fields, 2:12:59.040 --> 2:13:01.120 who always had a time pad on. I have to 2:13:01.160 --> 2:13:02.920 tell you that I did get it from Leon Russell, 2:13:03.440 --> 2:13:05.160 and then I know L. John had it one for 2:13:05.200 --> 2:13:07.960 a little bit there. But Leon Russell, the master's space 2:13:08.040 --> 2:13:13.120 and time, who I knew uh pretty well, and one 2:13:13.160 --> 2:13:16.760 of one of my major major influences. The other one 2:13:16.800 --> 2:13:20.880 besides Elton was Leon Russell. Um and uh I even 2:13:20.920 --> 2:13:24.960 did a song uh on through the looking Glass. Uh. 2:13:25.080 --> 2:13:27.480 It takes a lot to cry, It takes it. It 2:13:27.560 --> 2:13:29.400 takes a lot to laugh. It takes a train to cry. 2:13:29.520 --> 2:13:32.560 The Bob Dylan song I dedicated to Leon Russell, you know. 2:13:32.760 --> 2:13:36.960 So that's where I got the top hat. But anybody 2:13:36.960 --> 2:13:40.440 who wears the top pat knows they're relatively heavy and 2:13:40.480 --> 2:13:45.040 they're not that comfortable. Well you know that's true. I 2:13:45.120 --> 2:13:48.240 have light ones and there I have a big head, 2:13:48.600 --> 2:13:51.320 so uh it swells occasionally, so I have to have 2:13:51.400 --> 2:13:54.960 different sizes black ass. There you have it. We could 2:13:55.000 --> 2:13:58.160 go on forever, David, but we gotta cut it off today. 2:13:58.720 --> 2:14:01.680 Promise me we'll do it again. We definitely will because 2:14:02.120 --> 2:14:06.680 you know the stories that you tell are different from 2:14:06.680 --> 2:14:09.280 a lot of perspectives because you've seen both sides of 2:14:09.320 --> 2:14:12.960 the fence. In an addition, you had that peak from 2:14:13.000 --> 2:14:16.880 a very young age because of your father. Until next time. 2:14:17.160 --> 2:14:18.480 This is Bob Left Sex