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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is keyboardist extraordinary David Peach, you know

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Speaker 1: from Toto and his work on album with Michael Jackson,

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Speaker 1: Bob Skags and so many more. He's just released his

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Speaker 1: first solo album, Broken Toys. David, Why a solo album? Why? Now? Uh? Well,

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Speaker 1: I kind of got bullied into this, Bob. My my

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Speaker 1: cohorts and colleagues, Steve Lucather and uh Joseph Williams. We're

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Speaker 1: making solo records pre COVID and uh I got involved

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Speaker 1: with their solo records and uh uh uh they prompted me,

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Speaker 1: They said, well, what you need to put out solo

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Speaker 1: record out? And I said, why I don't. I don't

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Speaker 1: do solo records. I do my band records. And he said, no,

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Speaker 1: it's time for you to do that. You have some

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Speaker 1: material lying around. To get that material out there and

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Speaker 1: so people can hear it. So I got in uh uh,

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Speaker 1: I got Joseph Williams to co produce with me, and

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Speaker 1: uh we just got in the studio and started uh

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Speaker 1: uh pulling open pieces out and uh I decided to

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Speaker 1: start the album. And this is about two years ago. Okay,

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Speaker 1: do you have a lot of old pieces around and

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Speaker 1: why were they not previously used? Uh, they just didn't

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Speaker 1: have a home. Sometimes you come up with us just

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Speaker 1: little sections of songs and uh, sometimes you work them

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Speaker 1: into framing them into as a song, or sometimes they're

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Speaker 1: just uh forgotten about. You know, by the way that

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Speaker 1: the album titles forgotten Toys. Sorry, that's okay. No I

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Speaker 1: mentioned that it was originally broken Toys, but it is

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Speaker 1: Forgotten Toys now, so they're all forgotten songs that needed

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Speaker 1: dusting off and uh and to find a new home.

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Speaker 1: You know, So how many did you have to go

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Speaker 1: through to find the one you want? Oh? Probably maybe

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Speaker 1: about twenty pieces? Little pieces and stuff like this, because

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Speaker 1: this is a song an album that was put together

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Speaker 1: kind of like a puzzle where we said, we we

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Speaker 1: have these pieces of music, but we don't know what

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Speaker 1: the puzzle looks like. So we had to frame it,

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Speaker 1: get the forum on it, and uh uh, get lyrics

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Speaker 1: written and get melodies written to it. So it was

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Speaker 1: a work in progress the whole time. Okay, so you

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Speaker 1: started two weeks two years ago, not two weeks ago,

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Speaker 1: and it is forgotten Toy. Sorry for that. Funk up

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Speaker 1: okay and uh, so when you started with Joseph, what

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Speaker 1: were the first steps? The first step was Joseph came

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Speaker 1: in and heard a demo that I had done, and

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Speaker 1: this is on the song first Time, uh, which is

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Speaker 1: like the third cut on the EP, and uh, he said,

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Speaker 1: give me that. Let me take that and make a

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Speaker 1: blueprint of that. And what he did was he took

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Speaker 1: my original scynth little synth riff that I was playing

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Speaker 1: uh on on a keyboard, and he added his samples

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Speaker 1: to that and made a little rhythm track of that

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Speaker 1: what he calls getting ready for Musicians, where he makes

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Speaker 1: uh these little uh almost demos, but they're really fat

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Speaker 1: good demos before we started adding the human element, which

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Speaker 1: are the musicians. So he gave some stuff. How did

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Speaker 1: you end up with the total compliment of songs? I mean,

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Speaker 1: there are seven songs on the album? How do you

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Speaker 1: get seven? Uh? I tried. There were some a couple

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Speaker 1: of extra songs, but I didn't feel I wanted to

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Speaker 1: convolute the record and and have songs that people skipped over.

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Speaker 1: I don't what didn't want any filler in there, and

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Speaker 1: this is just what I had at the at the

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Speaker 1: given amount of time. Uh, it's just what I came

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Speaker 1: up with. And I didn't want to include a little

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Speaker 1: pieces that weren't together, you know, so uh uh these

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Speaker 1: these were my favorite ones. Okay, So where did you

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Speaker 1: cut it? We cut it at my studio here, which

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Speaker 1: is called a t S that stands for across the street,

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Speaker 1: and at Joseph's place also as well, and then we

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Speaker 1: went to a few studios to get musicians. Steve Jordan,

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Speaker 1: I sent him a track. Steve Jordan, who is now

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Speaker 1: the current drummer with Rolling Stones. Uh. He did his

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Speaker 1: in New York on Queen Charade and Uh. I went

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Speaker 1: to Don Felder's house for this Queen Charade as well

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Speaker 1: to have him put slide guitar on it. And he

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Speaker 1: was great. He's a fantastic slide player. I can't say

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Speaker 1: enough about what a great guy Don Felder is and

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Speaker 1: how much he added to Uh. What a magical experience

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Speaker 1: that was watching him play slide guitar. How do you

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Speaker 1: know Felder who used to be in The Eagle, Um,

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Speaker 1: he I have a common uh colleague of ours. Uh

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Speaker 1: asked me to do overdubs. He was the producer of

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Speaker 1: Don's album and he asked me to do some overdubs

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Speaker 1: for Don's record, and so I have the last three

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Speaker 1: or two or three albums I've worked on doing overdubs

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Speaker 1: for Don. And then when I asked him to to

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Speaker 1: uh play on my album, he didn't even flinch. It

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Speaker 1: was just a big yes, with what time do you

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Speaker 1: need me? You know, he was so great. Now in

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Speaker 1: the old days, your studio musician, you're making, you know,

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Speaker 1: uh the raid or double or triple. When you call

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Speaker 1: in your friends, people are interested in how it works.

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Speaker 1: Business is totally different. Everybody works for free and how

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Speaker 1: does it work a combination of both? You know, I

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Speaker 1: don't expect professionals to come in and work for free,

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Speaker 1: but I have certain friends that won't, that refuse to

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Speaker 1: work for money and stuff that will just their their

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Speaker 1: returning favors. It's kind of like the old barter system.

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Speaker 1: You know, you play on my record and I play

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Speaker 1: on your record, so some sometimes it's exchanged that way.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes I write the person to check that's right here,

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Speaker 1: right after they finished playing, and it's uh, it's done

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Speaker 1: deal okay. And how extensive is your home studio? Uh,

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Speaker 1: it's fairly extensive. I have an isolation booth. I have

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Speaker 1: a control room. It was put together by the people

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Speaker 1: that by a mastering house called the Mastering Lab, which

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Speaker 1: is a was the famous mastering facility in l A. Well,

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Speaker 1: those are the gentlemen that put in my sound system

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Speaker 1: because I wanted a studio that sounded, uh, that you

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Speaker 1: could listen to professionally at two recordings at home, and

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Speaker 1: when you took it out of here, it wouldn't sound different.

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Speaker 1: So I have a very professional small it's really for

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Speaker 1: a keyboard player kind of producer. But yet I have

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Speaker 1: a right behind me, I have a nine ft grand piano.

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Speaker 1: But I've used on all the total records, and I've

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Speaker 1: recorded vocals and brass players in here before. And uh

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Speaker 1: uh that's about it. And what kind of equipment do

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Speaker 1: you have? What kind of equipment? I've got old and new,

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Speaker 1: just like me, bob old and new. Okay, uh, I've

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Speaker 1: got um. I've got a ham and organ sitting right

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Speaker 1: in front of me. Here, I've got a nine ft

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Speaker 1: Baldwin st ten and back of me. But I've got

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Speaker 1: also uh Nord instruments. I have core instruments. And I'm

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Speaker 1: mainly using a computer now with a logic program and

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Speaker 1: pro tools to do the recording. And I still have

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Speaker 1: two analog machines sitting here just to remind my digital

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Speaker 1: uh computers, uh that there once was a past there.

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Speaker 1: You know, they're still sitting here watching, watching behind them.

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Speaker 1: I've got a twenty four tracks student, had a two

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Speaker 1: tracks student sitting in my studio. How long have you

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Speaker 1: had those students? Since? Total four? Okay, I've had them,

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Speaker 1: and I kept waiting to use them, you know, to

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Speaker 1: start doing uh the old analog thing where we cut

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Speaker 1: on analog and but the overdubs are done digitally. You know.

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Speaker 1: I found that just doing everything on pro tools uh

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Speaker 1: and eliminating tape is the way to go as far

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Speaker 1: as my years go. And when did you last use

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Speaker 1: the studs? Uh? Probably about that time, probably the early

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Speaker 1: uh two thousand. I haven't used them. And what do

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Speaker 1: you have for a board and speakers? Uh, it's just

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Speaker 1: a virtual board right now. It's a I've got altic

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Speaker 1: big reds in my studio. Um and uh, I have

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Speaker 1: a little mini but just small board for opera for

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Speaker 1: so you can manually do mixes and stuff. Uh, small

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Speaker 1: mixing but nothing nothing, no large mixing and uh uh

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Speaker 1: I don't know which really brand what my little board is,

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Speaker 1: but it's it's all computer based, you know. Okay, do

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Speaker 1: you have a sponsorship with Balden or do you for

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Speaker 1: ball when to Steinway or Yamaha. I don't have one

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Speaker 1: because I just used. I used whatever is the best

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Speaker 1: for me. And uh, I was linked up with a

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Speaker 1: couple of companies at one time, but now I'm a

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Speaker 1: free agent and I'm linked up with nobody. And it's

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Speaker 1: kind of hard to get to keyboard endorsements because they

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Speaker 1: don't really give keyboards away that often. And uh, but

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Speaker 1: I was. I was associated with a larger company um

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Speaker 1: which was Yamaha for for many years. And uh I

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Speaker 1: used a lot of that stuff on like Africa and

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Speaker 1: Total four record. So the bald when you have behind you?

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Speaker 1: When did you get it? Where did it come from?

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Speaker 1: It came from a piano tuner who was famous in

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Speaker 1: town named Keith Albright, who tuned all the pianos for

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Speaker 1: the best playing pianos in town. I bought it from

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Speaker 1: him the day before we cut the first tracks of

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Speaker 1: the first Total record. So the piano, my piano was there.

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Speaker 1: Uh on hold the line, which was the first track

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Speaker 1: we cut in the studio. It was there, uh for Hydra,

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Speaker 1: for Turnback. I used it on Rosanna, I wrote, used

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Speaker 1: it on Africa and uh all all our other records.

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Speaker 1: I've always used this piano. So it has a special

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Speaker 1: place in my heart. And uh uh it's been very

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Speaker 1: good to me as far as playing on all uh

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Speaker 1: are good our best records. Okay, when you used it

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Speaker 1: for the total records, was it in your house then

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Speaker 1: or did you have it slept to the studio? I

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Speaker 1: had it slept, good word, I had slept to the studio.

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Speaker 1: And as we went later on, when I finally got

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Speaker 1: my new studio here, we started, I started doing overdubs here.

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Speaker 1: But it wasn't until you know this this millennium here

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Speaker 1: that uh I started recording it uh away from the studio.

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Speaker 1: Otherwise I had it brought there and tuned up and

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Speaker 1: uh I brought my own mics with were chefs, uh

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Speaker 1: stereo mics to put in the piano and uh uh

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Speaker 1: that was it. So how did you ultimately learn how

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Speaker 1: to mike the piano and what mikes to use? Asking

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Speaker 1: a lot of engineers, a lot of questions and just

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Speaker 1: seeing whatever whenever I was in the studio, which was

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Speaker 1: many times playing piano. I'd watch the different guys mike

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Speaker 1: the pianos. It's funny when I went in with the

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Speaker 1: I used to work. I used to be a Neil

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Speaker 1: Diamonds band and uh uh. Garmin Steiner, a very famous engineer,

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Speaker 1: would use two k m a t eights on the piano.

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Speaker 1: But when Neil came in, he would change the mic.

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Speaker 1: It was like a secret his secret miking, which is

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Speaker 1: to do a mono one mic uh you forty seven

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Speaker 1: and to put it on the piano and it sounded.

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Speaker 1: It would sounded zing. So I've gone anywhere from doing

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Speaker 1: stereo pairs here was C. Twenty four's uh chefs mix,

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Speaker 1: to using a mono. There's different ways, different sounds for

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Speaker 1: different songs. Okay, if one looks at the credits of

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Speaker 1: the new album, which of course is Forgotten Toys, not

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Speaker 1: Broken Toys, it's a who's it's a who's who famous

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Speaker 1: musicians you know, looking through How do you know Brian

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Speaker 1: Eno and how did he end up working on the record? Well,

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Speaker 1: actually I didn't. I didn't use any of those people

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Speaker 1: on the cover right there, I just said I used them.

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Speaker 1: I just put those up just to sell more records. Actually, no,

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Speaker 1: I never met Brian, you know. Funny enough, I've never

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Speaker 1: I've never met Brian. You know he worked on the

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Speaker 1: first Dune record directly with David Lynch and uh, the

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Speaker 1: same producer that produced Don Felder. Uh knew him through

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Speaker 1: association because he was playing with my friend was playing

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Speaker 1: with um uh Paul Siman, and Brian Eno happened to

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Speaker 1: be co producing Paul Simon's record. So Uh, my friend

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Speaker 1: played him a couple of my early roughs on my

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Speaker 1: album here and apparently this is what he told me.

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Speaker 1: Brian sent him heard the thing and sent him a

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Speaker 1: couple of samples uh to include on this one song

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Speaker 1: called All All the Tears That Shine, which is in

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Speaker 1: the very beginning you hear this little pulse sating beacon,

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Speaker 1: and you also hear throughout the song and at the

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Speaker 1: very end. And that was his contribution. And I thank

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Speaker 1: him for that, uh, and I hope to meet him

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Speaker 1: face to face one day. Okay, you used Mike Laying

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Speaker 1: on piano, who unfortunately recently passed as a piano player.

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Speaker 1: Why would you use Mike? Mike and I go back,

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Speaker 1: uh to when I was fifteen years old. My father

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Speaker 1: was the musical director on the Glenn Campbell Show, and

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Speaker 1: he put together a great rhythm section for that, one

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Speaker 1: of which was Mike Lange, one of which was Joe

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Speaker 1: Pricaro Jeff Percarro's dad on percussion, one was Louis Shelton

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Speaker 1: uh steals and crops producer, and Paul Humphreys on drums

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Speaker 1: who played on Let's Get It On, and all these

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Speaker 1: great musicians. Well, he was the piano player and I

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Speaker 1: used to sit next to him every Sunday during the

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Speaker 1: Glenn Campbell Show and UH. He would teach me things

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Speaker 1: like how to play Hammond organ. I didn't even know

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Speaker 1: how to turn a Hammond organ on back then, you

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Speaker 1: know much, Let's play it, and UH I learned. He

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Speaker 1: he was my mentor, and so we started talking about

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Speaker 1: doing UH. As the years kept going by and we

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Speaker 1: kept playing together on various record dates. UM we did.

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Speaker 1: We talked about possibly doing a record together sometime so

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Speaker 1: about eight years ago, I started him and I started

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Speaker 1: kicking around some ideas, and one of them was Lucy

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Speaker 1: UH that we did. We ended up writing together. I

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Speaker 1: played the head on it and he plays the incredib

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Speaker 1: solo that's in the middle, and then I finished it

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Speaker 1: on Hammond, Oregon. So it was just one of those

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Speaker 1: things where we kind of started a duet album, but

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Speaker 1: it didn't come to fruition because he was so busy

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Speaker 1: and I was quite busy. So I just I grabbed

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Speaker 1: this track from my solo record. And what about Davy Johnstone,

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Speaker 1: Elton's guitarist. How did he end up on the record?

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Speaker 1: Davy has been a friend for over thirty years. He's

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Speaker 1: been a close friend of mine, and uh, I just

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Speaker 1: called Davy. I knew he was in town from Elton,

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Speaker 1: and uh I asked him. I said, Davy, would you

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Speaker 1: mind playing acoustic? And of course, Davey's the sweetest guy

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Speaker 1: in the world. He said, of course I will. And

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Speaker 1: because I wanted this certain uh texture uh that he

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Speaker 1: plays when he when he plays acoustic guitar that you

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Speaker 1: hear on all these Elting John records. Now, what's unique

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Speaker 1: about Davy's playing is every time I thought it was

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Speaker 1: a high hat or a shaker plane, keeping like songs

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Speaker 1: like Daniel together, it was Davy's guitar. His acoustic rhythm

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Speaker 1: guitar is like a percussion instrument. And all the Elton

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Speaker 1: John records are are nine of them where you heard

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Speaker 1: Davy playing the rhythm to the guitar. So I thought

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Speaker 1: he would be a great element to have. And like

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Speaker 1: I said, he's a he's a dear friend, and uh

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Speaker 1: it was just it was a magical experience. Okay, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Steve Jordan you mentioned earlier on drums, but you also

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Speaker 1: have Greg Bissonette we all know, and Robin DiMaggio, who

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Why are there different drummers and why

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Speaker 1: are these particular people playing um When I'm making a record,

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Speaker 1: especially when I'm making records have made records outside of Toto.

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Speaker 1: You have to cast the music, and you cast the

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Speaker 1: music by casting each song, who would be a good

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Speaker 1: player on this song? So by having the luxury of

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Speaker 1: doing a solo album, I was able to cast each

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Speaker 1: song and Joseph helped me with the casting. But I

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Speaker 1: knew definitely that I wanted to get to uh someone

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Speaker 1: like Steve Jordan's for uh Queen Charade, because that's the

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Speaker 1: kind of drummer he is. He's very reckless and cavalier

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Speaker 1: and and loose with his plane. So I knew he'd

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Speaker 1: be the right guy. And uh uh we got We

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Speaker 1: knew hum Greg Bisonette from Ringo Starr. Of course I

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Speaker 1: played with Greg before on he's played with Toto. He

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Speaker 1: went out in the road with Toto for a week

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Speaker 1: when our drummer got sick one time. And uh, he's

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Speaker 1: been kind of an honorary member. And uh, we just

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Speaker 1: cast these people, like I said, like their character actors.

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Speaker 1: Whoever is right for the part, you know, And we

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Speaker 1: just felt each of those drummers was right for the

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Speaker 1: parts that they played. Now, if for some reason you

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Speaker 1: couldn't play, who would you cast to play your part?

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Speaker 1: That's very easy. I would have Greg filling games in

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Speaker 1: a second. Well, he ultimately played with Toto. But why

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Speaker 1: do you say Greg great player? Because Greg is like

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Speaker 1: a brother from another mother. I know that the phrase

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Speaker 1: is used a lot, but he does a version of me.

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Speaker 1: When I sit down and play the piano. He goes, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is what you this is what you mean, and

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Speaker 1: he sits down and plays exactly what I'm doing. But

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Speaker 1: it's the way he plays it, and he just adds

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Speaker 1: his little touches to it. He's like a it's like

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Speaker 1: a doppelganger. It's weird. It's a him, but he's he's

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Speaker 1: got ten times the technique that I do. I'm not

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Speaker 1: comparing myself with him because he went out with Stevie Wonder.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he joined Stevie when he was eighteen years old,

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Speaker 1: and he's just a phenomena. He really is. He got

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Speaker 1: perfect pitch and uh, I hate him for being as

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Speaker 1: talented as he is now. The signal from the album

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Speaker 1: was Spirit of the Moon Rise. But my favorite song

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Speaker 1: is will I Belong to You? What's the story with

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Speaker 1: the title, How did will I Belong to You? Come together?

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Speaker 1: That came together from Joseph Williams. He just had a piece,

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Speaker 1: and he had a piece, and there was really the

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Speaker 1: chorus to the song, and that's all he had was

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Speaker 1: that little piece. So I said, I really I got

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Speaker 1: to write a song for that chorus because it was

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Speaker 1: such a beautiful chorus, which is who I belong to

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Speaker 1: Who I belong to you? And uh, I came up

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Speaker 1: with this little uh verse um that I thought would

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Speaker 1: would be a nice uh uh bookend to the chorus.

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Speaker 1: And uh, I'm again. I'm a big Paul Simon fan

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Speaker 1: and Paul McCartney fans, So I like the acoustic I

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Speaker 1: um brought in acoustic. Dean Parks on Acoustic guitar and

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Speaker 1: uh uh Nathan East on bass, and I just thought

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Speaker 1: that Uh, Joseph and I filled it out, filled the

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Speaker 1: rest of the between the course and the verses, filled

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Speaker 1: it out with some transitional music and kind of just

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Speaker 1: tried to get the imaginative with arrangement and how much

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Speaker 1: of the record was cut with everybody in the room

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Speaker 1: playing simultaneously, if at all, none of it. None of

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Speaker 1: it was. But but the idea was to make it

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Speaker 1: feel like that, and I think I achieved that pretty

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Speaker 1: much because every time I listened to the record, and

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Speaker 1: I've listened to this album hundreds and hundreds of times,

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Speaker 1: I always feel like I'm listening to a live performance

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Speaker 1: from the guys, because that's the specialty of the end

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Speaker 1: of the instrumentalists that I called in have the ability

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Speaker 1: to overdub and make it feel like it's here, it's

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Speaker 1: being done live right there. It never sounds like an

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Speaker 1: overdub to me, at least with these particular players. And

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Speaker 1: Clear Mountain mixed. Did you just give him the tracks,

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Speaker 1: say do what you do? Or do you give him

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Speaker 1: a lot of instructions? And why Clear Mountain? Not that

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Speaker 1: he's not great, but why him? Yes, yes to both

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Speaker 1: of those. I always loved Bob clear Mountains mixing. He

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Speaker 1: mits the Toto's album called Kingdom of Desire and I

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Speaker 1: first we first made contact with him. Then I was

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Speaker 1: a big Brian Adams fan with all of his records.

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Speaker 1: Box was. Bob's done everything from in Excess to Uh,

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Speaker 1: David Bowie and one of my favorite records, which is

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Speaker 1: what I really liked him to be mixing Queen Charade on.

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Speaker 1: He'd bixed Start Me Up for the Stones, and so

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Speaker 1: it was a real treat having him the guy that

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Speaker 1: mixed that record. Mix mix our record with Bob, I've

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Speaker 1: usually had with mixer's I've usually had a a notepad

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Speaker 1: with that had a couple of pages and notes on it.

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Speaker 1: With Bob, I had I had a whole notepad and

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Speaker 1: only had two uh suggestions on it. One was like, uh,

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Speaker 1: turn the vocal up a little bit and turned the

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Speaker 1: base up a little bit, and it was like two

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Speaker 1: suggestions and the records done. He's so fast, he's uh

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Speaker 1: he's another uh woonder kid, you know. So Needles just say,

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Speaker 1: the record business is very different from the heyday of

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Speaker 1: Toto to what Okay, so you're making the record at

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Speaker 1: what point do you get a record company distributor? And

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Speaker 1: are you still motivated to do it even though it's

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Speaker 1: so hard to get anything recognized today? Those are all

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Speaker 1: good questions. Uh. I I made the connection with the

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Speaker 1: record company was his mascot through Steve Lucather, who has

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Speaker 1: had solo albums more I think ten solo albums or

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Speaker 1: more probably, and Joseph was on the label too, and

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Speaker 1: I've hadn't heard nothing but good things about Mascott. So

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Speaker 1: Luke started telling them, well, you know, David Pace might

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Speaker 1: because they usually have good whole do guitar players the

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Speaker 1: majority of their artists or guitar players. And uh, so

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Speaker 1: Steve was touting me the fact that I was thinking

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Speaker 1: about doing a solo record, and so he slipped them,

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Speaker 1: he slipped them, slipped it in their ear. And I

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Speaker 1: think that as my as I started gaining momentum and

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Speaker 1: getting some tracks finished, uh, it started coming together. And

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Speaker 1: then I got Steve Carris involved from a management standpoint,

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Speaker 1: and uh they were kept waiting for waiting and waiting

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Speaker 1: for me to get it done because I work at

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Speaker 1: a snail's pace, and uh, because I have the luxury

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Speaker 1: of having my studio here at home. So uh, they

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Speaker 1: said they were interested, and I financed the record myself

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Speaker 1: up until the point where we made the deal with them,

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Speaker 1: and then they came in. Uh. But it's not like

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Speaker 1: the old days where you can shop around all the

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Speaker 1: majors and you're holding gold in your pocket, because no

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Speaker 1: one's really waiting for my record to come out, you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean specifically, So it's a it's a

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Speaker 1: harder sell and I try and let the music sell itself.

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Speaker 1: That's another reason I did the e P because I

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Speaker 1: wanted to make sure I had all my best songs,

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Speaker 1: all my best material uh in there. And uh the

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Speaker 1: business has definitely changed from when we started a shopping

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Speaker 1: it for a deal uh back in Okay. Now, we

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Speaker 1: delayed this podcast for about a month because you were

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Speaker 1: going on the road. What was being on the road like.

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Speaker 1: Being on the road was me flying into specific places

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Speaker 1: uh uh two places like uh New Orleans at Nashville

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Speaker 1: and Sacramento. I flew into and I played uh the

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Speaker 1: Staples Center, which is now not the Staples Center anymore.

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Speaker 1: But uh uh and I I do like the last

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Speaker 1: five songs in the show, and it's just because I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm the Steve Luca there made me musical director for Toto,

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Speaker 1: And what I do is just kind of oversee the

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Speaker 1: rehearsals and make sure all the fine tuning and details

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Speaker 1: are are maintained. And uh, and they asked me. They

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Speaker 1: told me they wanted me to come out on the

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Speaker 1: road whenever I can make it, to come out and

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Speaker 1: do that. So I started getting the road itch, and

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Speaker 1: I wanted to play with the band because it's one

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Speaker 1: of the few last venues where you can actually play

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Speaker 1: live music. It's not hardly done in recording studios anymore,

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Speaker 1: which whereas where we used to play every single day

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Speaker 1: all day long is in recording studios. But uh uh

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Speaker 1: now uh it's on stage live, which is which is

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Speaker 1: why I think so many artists, premiere artists and smaller

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Speaker 1: artists are touring. It's just the fact that they're keeping

428
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 1: a music alive and able to do the live experience

429
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,240
Speaker 1: where you commune with the audience there and it's a

430
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:31,479
Speaker 1: special as a special uh moment. Like I said, it's

431
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 1: a magical experience. When you're out with an audience, they

432
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 1: give you energy. You feed off that energy, and uh,

433
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 1: I think that's why people love playing live now you

434
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 1: were dropping in on these dates? What's your you know?

435
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 1: Going on the road. There's a million songs. You know,

436
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,880
Speaker 1: the hour on stage pays for the other twenty three?

437
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 1: Are you someone who likes the road? Who hates the roads? Done?

438
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 1: Enough of the road? I've I love the two hours

439
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 1: on stage that I play the last half an hour

440
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:07,120
Speaker 1: of But I am I'm past the road. Uh, I'm

441
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 1: move have moved on to uh being a homebody here,

442
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,440
Speaker 1: and I still like to travel. I liked you know,

443
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 1: but I've spent years on buses and uh have done

444
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 1: the road thing. And uh as I'm getting not old

445
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,639
Speaker 1: but a little bit older here. Uh riding on a

446
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 1: bus doing one night ors is a little heavy for me. Now, okay,

447
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 1: you say you work at a snails Peace, go a

448
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 1: little deeper. Why so slow? Why so slow? Because I'm

449
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 1: a perfectionist and I know I know how to I

450
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 1: pay attention to details. Now. The way the reason I

451
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 1: got into details was when my first record date hit

452
00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:00,399
Speaker 1: record was a song called Diamond Girl with Seals and Rofs,

453
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 1: and Uh, I learned from Louis Shelton and Jimmy Seals

454
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:10,159
Speaker 1: specifically to not let anything go by, to make sure

455
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 1: everything was just just right with either vocals or the

456
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 1: rhythm track. And I'm talking about microscopic details that the

457
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,639
Speaker 1: normal listener would never pay attention to or notice. And

458
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:25,880
Speaker 1: this is how you get those clean layered records like

459
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 1: Seals and Crops used to do. Steely Dan is another

460
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 1: group that we learned from Jeffrey Carl and myself. We're

461
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:36,719
Speaker 1: paying attention watching them while they made Pretzel logic and

462
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 1: Katie lied and they were they were so uh uh

463
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 1: microscopic with all the details and the little ticks and

464
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,159
Speaker 1: pops in the tape and anything that would make a

465
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 1: little sound. They were fanatical about having clean records. And uh,

466
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:56,920
Speaker 1: this is back in the analog days, so it was

467
00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 1: a little bit more of There was more had to

468
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:04,920
Speaker 1: be maintenance done with machines and cutting tape to edit

469
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 1: and all these kind of things that they don't do anymore.

470
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 1: But uh again back to your Wigan saying, well, I

471
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 1: move moving to Snail's place because I like to take

472
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:18,160
Speaker 1: my time and uh, I cover a lot of details,

473
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 1: but I also have a life here. I like to

474
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,719
Speaker 1: go out in the water my garden and uh I'd

475
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,360
Speaker 1: like to swim occasionally and ride my bike, and uh

476
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 1: do things that to keep me in shape. So it's

477
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 1: not just music. Your music used to be seven since

478
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 1: I was ten years old up until you know, just

479
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 1: recently when I started uh uh you know, just balancing

480
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 1: my time. I think life. Life's a matter of balance. Okay,

481
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 1: we know about Becker and Fagin. Tell me a little

482
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 1: bit more about working with Louis Shelton. Louis Shelton was

483
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 1: one of the great guitar players, session guitar players in town.

484
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 1: He's right up with Dean Parks, Larry Carlton, one of

485
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 1: those kind of guys. But he was the first real

486
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 1: session guy that started producing music for people. So he

487
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 1: would do it like a session guy would do it,

488
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 1: which is to pay potential particular attention to these details.

489
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 1: And uh he was I gained a relationship again on

490
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 1: the Glen Campbell Show when I used to see him

491
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 1: every Sunday, so I was familiar with jamming with him

492
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 1: a little bit. But he was such a good record

493
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 1: producer that uh he let me actually get my hands

494
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 1: on the knobs and turn pan pots and turn echo

495
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 1: knobs and turned faders and and actually uh taught me

496
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 1: how to produce. So he was a huge mentor along

497
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 1: with Jimmy Seals. Another thing I wanted to just back

498
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 1: up for a second and mention about doing synthesizers and

499
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 1: keyboards on on albums. Quincy Jones when we were doing Thriller.

500
00:29:55,760 --> 00:30:00,080
Speaker 1: Quincy Jones said that doing synthesizers synth over dubs on

501
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 1: Thriller was like painting a seven forty seven with a toothbrush. Okay,

502
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 1: that gives you an ideal. That's why I take so

503
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 1: much time making my records, Okay, because that's that's a

504
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 1: kind of detail and a kind of it's a combination

505
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 1: of science and music when you get into synthesizers and sonics. Really,

506
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 1: you know, with engineers microphones, I have a good microphones here.

507
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 1: I've got c C, I've got used forty seven's, I

508
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 1: have uh telephone in two fifty, I've got cheps mics.

509
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 1: So uh, you know, we're all trying to do this.

510
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 1: Does does this need to be acoustic or it shouldn't

511
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 1: be sampled? We're in that age right now. Okay. You

512
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 1: talked about life balance. Was this a revelation at some

513
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 1: point that man or you just said, I don't want

514
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 1: to do that anymore? And what does this balance look like. Well,

515
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 1: the balance came from my upbringing with my parents. My

516
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 1: father was a jazz arranger and jazz pianists who became

517
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 1: a big orchestrator and orchestral conductor for people like Ray

518
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 1: Charles and Ella Fitzgerald and Barbra streisand and my mom

519
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 1: was a bookkeeper. So they taught me there's got to

520
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 1: be a balance in life here and made sure that

521
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 1: I always was able to play a little bit of

522
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 1: sports when I was growing up, as well as practice

523
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 1: the piano. But they always wanted to make sure that

524
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 1: I had a normal upbringing, you know, that it wasn't

525
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 1: just all Hollywood and just all music music music. So

526
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 1: I got that from my ingrained uh infused on my

527
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 1: d n A from my folks. But uh, I think

528
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 1: as I got older here, I think I had a

529
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 1: couple of wake up calls that, uh let me know

530
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 1: that the touring thing, I just wasn't able to uh

531
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 1: keep up, uh physically with the touring thing, and I

532
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 1: ended up suffering from fatigue and exhaustion and a little

533
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 1: bit of depression and anxiety. And uh, those who were

534
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 1: kind of all warring signs that I needed to try

535
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 1: and hang up my road boots. Now you've only been

536
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 1: married once, right, this is true. This is an unusual

537
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 1: in this business too. That's why I'm asking why did

538
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 1: your relationship sustain when so many don't. I think because

539
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 1: my wife has a sense of humor about me. She

540
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 1: doesn't take me seriously, I think, and we get along

541
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 1: great and we keep laughing, and I think it's mutual respect.

542
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 1: You know. She was a professional food stylist and used

543
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 1: to go on location and I used to go in

544
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 1: location when we first got married. So we'd meet up

545
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 1: every once in a while to discuss our marriage a

546
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 1: date and UH ended up just hitting it off immediately.

547
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 1: So how did you actually meet her? Oh? Boy, I

548
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 1: promised myself I'd never tell this story. Uh. I met

549
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 1: on a blind date. Our engineer Greg Ladonni Uh was

550
00:32:56,080 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 1: working with us and his wife was work with my

551
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 1: uh with Lorraine, my soon to be wife, and so

552
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 1: she set me up. She said, Greg, I've got a

553
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 1: girl that David needs to go out with. So I

554
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: hired a limousine and then she got cold feet, and

555
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 1: so I invited my band because I was gonna take

556
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 1: him to a fancy restaurant that I had invested in

557
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 1: blah blah blah and uh the band. Lorraine decided she

558
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,280
Speaker 1: wanted to go on the on the on the date,

559
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 1: so it caught me off guard. So my band showed

560
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 1: up just before she showed up, and they ended up

561
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 1: sitting in a limo and I sat in the front

562
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 1: seat with my girlfriend Lorraine with the limo driver all

563
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 1: the way to the restaurant. That was my first date experience,

564
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 1: which was like, it couldn't be worse, but she made it.

565
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 1: She was laughing the whole time. She thought it was hysterical.

566
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 1: And that's why we're still married. And how often do

567
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 1: you play? I try and play every day, and I

568
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 1: just about do. I try and practice at least a

569
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 1: half an hour a day, and uh sometimes I play

570
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 1: a couple of hours at least, and I find that

571
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 1: I need to, uh, even when I go on the road.

572
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:18,760
Speaker 1: I just got back from the Zurich Film Festival. Uh.

573
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 1: And I always bring a little keyboard with me so

574
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:24,359
Speaker 1: I can practice in my room to to keep up

575
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:26,719
Speaker 1: my chops. Otherwise, if I go two or three days

576
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 1: without playing, uh, I just everything starts tightening up a

577
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:35,320
Speaker 1: little bit. Okay, So you grew up in the valley

578
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 1: where I grew up. I was born and raised in Rosita,

579
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 1: and uh that's where my folks lived on Hesperian sati

580
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:49,320
Speaker 1: Quoi in the valley. And when they were five years old,

581
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 1: my parents moved to Hidden Hills, which wasn't all fu

582
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,280
Speaker 1: food at the time, and it was just hardly anybody

583
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 1: but pours people out there and my dad. They told

584
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 1: my dad he had to get out of the valley

585
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 1: and moved outside after the outskirts because he wasn't getting

586
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 1: enough sleep, uh, writing arrangements and stuff. So it was

587
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 1: for health reasons. He ventured out into the Hidden Hills area,

588
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,839
Speaker 1: which has become you know, the home of the Kardashians now.

589
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 1: But that's where I lived. That's where I lived from

590
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 1: five until one that when I entered college. And uh

591
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 1: so that's that's how I grew up. That's where I

592
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:29,880
Speaker 1: was a valley boy, you know. And where do you

593
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:36,799
Speaker 1: live now? I live in Calabasas, I know, but I

594
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:40,360
Speaker 1: kind of where I grew up, right across the freeway

595
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:43,840
Speaker 1: from where I grew up, off a mahole and drive. Okay,

596
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,920
Speaker 1: when did you realize your father was a musician and

597
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 1: when did you become interested fascinated by that. Uh when

598
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 1: I went to my dad took us to a concert

599
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 1: I think, and I think it was al Hurt who

600
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 1: was playing trumpet, and they introduced my father in the

601
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 1: audience at the Greek Theater and he stood up and

602
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 1: took a bow. And that's when we did. That's when

603
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 1: we knew that dad was something. Yeah, my dad used

604
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 1: to get singled out because he was a very prolific arranger,

605
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:16,319
Speaker 1: and they would single him out and make him stand

606
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 1: up and take bows whenever he was with somebody, like

607
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:21,840
Speaker 1: because he arranged for such so many of the greats.

608
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 1: I mean, he ranged for Sinatra, He arranged for Sammy

609
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 1: Davis Jr. Dean Martin, Ella Fantzgerald, Lena Horne, and the

610
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 1: list goes on. You know, he was because he handled

611
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:35,319
Speaker 1: big orchestras. That's what his claim to fame was that

612
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 1: he wrote classical style or string parts and orchestral music.

613
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:44,359
Speaker 1: Uh like take the take for instance, The Way We Were.

614
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:48,920
Speaker 1: My dad produced and arranged that record for Barbara Streisan.

615
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 1: So he was he was pretty much of a icon

616
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 1: and alleged you know, how did he get into it?

617
00:36:56,520 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 1: Interesting question. His father was from Croatia originally and wanted

618
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 1: him to be an accordion teacher. So he bought him

619
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,239
Speaker 1: an accordion when I think my dad was elect twelve

620
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 1: years old and hopes that he would be an accordion teacher.

621
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 1: And my dad loved jazz so much he started uh

622
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 1: learning how to write music and learning how to play jazz,

623
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:19,880
Speaker 1: and UH ended up joining the Air Force ban in

624
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 1: the army, which he still played accordion, believe it or not,

625
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:25,279
Speaker 1: in the jazz band. I have a picture of that,

626
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 1: and uh uh he just kept at it, at it

627
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 1: and then he finally UH went to USC and the

628
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,279
Speaker 1: l a conservatory of with by the way, which is

629
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 1: because his colleagues at the time where John Williams and

630
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 1: Andre Prevan. Uh, and he learned he got a master's

631
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:49,759
Speaker 1: degree in composition from USC, and UH learned how to

632
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 1: write fugues and uh and uh all the classical training

633
00:37:54,719 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 1: that he needed to UH launch into doing orchestras. So

634
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:05,279
Speaker 1: how many kids in the family my my family, I

635
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 1: have one daughter, No, when you were growing up, brothers, sisters?

636
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,839
Speaker 1: I have one. I had one sister, one older sister. Okay,

637
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 1: So at what point do you start taking lessons? I

638
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:20,760
Speaker 1: started taking lessons around eight years old, I started playing

639
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 1: the piano, and it was about five I think my

640
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 1: dad had done two versions of a song called Blues

641
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 1: in the Night. My mom and then told him that

642
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 1: that little riff right there was the first thing that

643
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 1: I ever picked out on the piano, and my father

644
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 1: noticed it. I think he was doing it for meltor May,

645
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 1: either him or Elphitzgerald at the time. I think it

646
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 1: was Meltormey though, and uh, I just picked that out

647
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 1: on the piano. And then uh, I decided, after sitting

648
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:50,920
Speaker 1: next to Shelly Man and Louie Belson, I wanted to

649
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:53,879
Speaker 1: be a drummer when I was very young, about five

650
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 1: six seven years old. So I get to use next

651
00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 1: to drummers like Shelley Man, Louie Belson and and uh

652
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 1: uh my dad, I said, I wanted to do this

653
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,279
Speaker 1: for a living like my father, and I was only

654
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 1: seven or eight, and he says, well, you're gonna have

655
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 1: to start studying seriously if you really want to do that.

656
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 1: So I started with my piano lessons at eight years old,

657
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 1: and uh uh. When I got to be twelve, my

658
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 1: dad says, now you've got to really take it seriously.

659
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 1: I was playing little league at the time, and I

660
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 1: was a catcher and uh he told me that I

661
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:29,720
Speaker 1: would end up hurt in my hands if I kept

662
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 1: on doing a catcher because he had a cousin that

663
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 1: was a professional catcher and he had all broken fingers

664
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:39,720
Speaker 1: and stuff. Anyway, I didn't want. I definitely uh nudged

665
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 1: me to being a musician. And at thirteen I got

666
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:47,759
Speaker 1: a classical uh pianist teacher that trained me for the

667
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:52,239
Speaker 1: next four or five years. Uh and uh it gave

668
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 1: me all my sound and technique. It really changed my life.

669
00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 1: So you're taking piano lessons, I how much are you

670
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:03,040
Speaker 1: putting into it? You know, I took piano lessons. The

671
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 1: big thing was practicing and we didn't so right, well,

672
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:10,400
Speaker 1: not enough, you know, you go back the next week whatever.

673
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:14,920
Speaker 1: So what you know? You were dedicated. And what happened

674
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 1: to the drums? The drums? Uh, I found out just

675
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 1: another funny story, not funny to me, but funny. Uh.

676
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 1: Louie Belson ended up giving my dad a set of

677
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 1: drums to give to me. Okay, well, my father, who

678
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:31,840
Speaker 1: wanted me to be a piano player, not a drummer,

679
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:35,360
Speaker 1: never gave me the set of drums. I was supposed

680
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 1: to get so okay, so when I never knew that

681
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 1: all I had was a snare drum and a ride

682
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 1: symbol from Louie Belson, which was to me, I was,

683
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 1: I was in heaven. I was in paradise just with that.

684
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:50,960
Speaker 1: And I had a snare drum and a ride symbol

685
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:58,520
Speaker 1: Zilgian and uh because he figured that if push comes

686
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:02,879
Speaker 1: to shove, the only eye that gets hired. Uh, it's

687
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 1: always the piano player. When they don't have a budget

688
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:09,239
Speaker 1: for anybody, you always see uh piano players and lounges

689
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:12,799
Speaker 1: and hotels and parties playing by themselves, which is what

690
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 1: my dad did primarily before he became a professional jazz musician,

691
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 1: was to go on the road and play for singers.

692
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:25,600
Speaker 1: Uh Dorothy Dandridge was he accompanied her, and uh Peggy

693
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 1: Lee also and uh uh so he instilled in me

694
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:32,840
Speaker 1: that uh uh, he said, you don't want to be

695
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 1: an old guy having to lug all your drums around.

696
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 1: There's always a piano there. And now I told him,

697
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 1: I remember I called him and said, Dad, now I

698
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 1: have three and a half tons worth of gear. I

699
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:47,319
Speaker 1: got a transport from one stage to another, and the

700
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 1: irony and that just uh, it just made us both laugh. Okay,

701
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 1: you're a year younger than me, so we're essentially the

702
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:56,239
Speaker 1: same time. I'm growing up on the East Coast in

703
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 1: the suburbs. You're in the heart of the action. So

704
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:03,960
Speaker 1: what do I remember? I remember the folk scene and

705
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,840
Speaker 1: then the surf and car scene, and then the Beatles

706
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:10,839
Speaker 1: came along and everybody formed bands. What was going on

707
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:14,920
Speaker 1: for you? I was playing drums at a surf band.

708
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 1: I was eight years old, and uh doing wipe out,

709
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 1: doing the solo to wipe out, and then um, I

710
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:26,720
Speaker 1: had a uh an epiphany. My dad did a record

711
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 1: with Johnny Rivers called Poor Side of Town. It was

712
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 1: Johnny rivers first hit single, and there was a piano

713
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:36,520
Speaker 1: player that played the track on it named Larry Nectel.

714
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:38,440
Speaker 1: Now I know he's not defamiliar with a lot of

715
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:40,879
Speaker 1: people out there, but he played the piano on Paul

716
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:44,400
Speaker 1: Simon's Bridge over Trouble Waters and he was the most

717
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 1: incredibly talented new funky player I'd ever heard in my life.

718
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 1: Brilliant player. I mean, if you hear a Bridge over

719
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 1: Trouble Waters, you can see what kind of player this

720
00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:59,760
Speaker 1: guy is. And he played on so many people's hit records.

721
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 1: Also played bass on Uh You've lost that love and feeling,

722
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 1: and uh, that was my epiphany as soon as I

723
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 1: heard what he was playing, because he didn't play rock

724
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 1: and roll like the older guys, jazz guys where they

725
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 1: played the triplets up high. Uh, he was down on

726
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 1: the last low two octaves of the piano, rolling it sound,

727
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 1: so it sounded like a rhythm guitar. And I was

728
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 1: just amazed by that. And I uh just gravitated towards

729
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:29,040
Speaker 1: that and started following and sitting next to him on

730
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:33,240
Speaker 1: sessions so I could steal everything that he knew. Okay,

731
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 1: you're growing up when I was growing up at the

732
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:39,840
Speaker 1: same time, had the transistor under the pillow. But you

733
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:43,520
Speaker 1: were in Hollywood. You know, to what degree were you

734
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:47,400
Speaker 1: a fan of popular music listening on the radio, dedicated

735
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:49,880
Speaker 1: or it was more about playing sports. What was it like?

736
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:54,320
Speaker 1: I was credibly submerged in music. My dad was working

737
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 1: with great artists. I was just taken by all the

738
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 1: artists at the time. I love folk rock, I love country,

739
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:05,879
Speaker 1: I love classical stuff. Uh. I loved all the music

740
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:07,879
Speaker 1: at the time, especially the Beatles. I'm still a huge

741
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 1: Beatles fan and a Rolling Stones fan, and uh to

742
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 1: this day. Uh again, like you said, we kind of

743
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:19,360
Speaker 1: dropped off the surf music dropped off, and we started

744
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:22,320
Speaker 1: wanting to play in bands that were playing Jimmy Hendricks

745
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 1: and the Beatles and uh uh traffic kind of songs

746
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:30,360
Speaker 1: I play. I got a band that we did nothing

747
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 1: but traffic and Hendrick songs. So uh, I was an

748
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 1: interesting combination. It is, it is, but those are the

749
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 1: kind of songs that we did. That was back in

750
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 1: the day. You know, you'd see how sly Stone on

751
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 1: a bill with Hendricks and Chicago the Stadium, you know,

752
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 1: so that was kind of they were more diverse back

753
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 1: then when it comes to putting acts together, I think.

754
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:58,239
Speaker 1: And because my dad was required listening, he was he

755
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:01,400
Speaker 1: got all these free records all the time because he

756
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:05,319
Speaker 1: was doing TV shows and they'd give him a not

757
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 1: for sale um demo demonstration record and uh, so I

758
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 1: was listening to the Beatles before people were, and uh uh,

759
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 1: people like Glenn Campbell I was. My dad was friends

760
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:20,359
Speaker 1: with all the Wrecking Crew, so I used to sit

761
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:22,720
Speaker 1: next to those guys all the time, and the Wrecking

762
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:25,840
Speaker 1: Crew individually. But my dad never really used the Wrecking Crew,

763
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:28,919
Speaker 1: but he did use um Lou Adler put a version

764
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:33,319
Speaker 1: of the Wrecking Crew together which was Hal Blaine, Joe Osborne,

765
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 1: Larry Nicktol, and Tommy Tedesco along with John Phillips and

766
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:39,920
Speaker 1: there these were made up of all the moms and

767
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:43,680
Speaker 1: Papa's records which my dad started to arrange strings for.

768
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:46,880
Speaker 1: He did Johnny. He was doing Johnny Rivers at the

769
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:49,799
Speaker 1: time that he did The Fifth Dimension, which is where

770
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:54,080
Speaker 1: I met. This goes into my songwriting beginning, which as

771
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 1: I met Jimmy Webb when I was ten and Jimmy

772
00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 1: Webb was seventeen and had a huge influence on me

773
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:02,759
Speaker 1: when he was doing the first Fifth Dimension album and

774
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 1: uh uh to this day, Uh again, Uh, that's where

775
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 1: I started getting into songwriting and wanting to become a songwriter.

776
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:13,879
Speaker 1: And right after that, Elton John's first album came out,

777
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 1: and I just it's just opened the whole door for me.

778
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:26,920
Speaker 1: You know, when did you actually start writing songs and

779
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:29,919
Speaker 1: how frequently and how good were they? I started writing

780
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 1: when I was about thirteen. I think it was about

781
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:36,880
Speaker 1: the time the first Elton John song came out and

782
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:40,319
Speaker 1: I started, uh trying to imitate him all my first

783
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:43,319
Speaker 1: songs were horrible, you know. They were just imitations of

784
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 1: Elton John's first album, The King Must Die. Uh yeah,

785
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 1: I love that record, and uh uh. I wasn't writing

786
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 1: too often because again I was a little bit slow,

787
00:46:57,239 --> 00:47:00,520
Speaker 1: but I liked I I really wanted to do to

788
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:05,400
Speaker 1: be Elton John and to perform on piano and write

789
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:08,400
Speaker 1: songs like that. And I just kept at it, you know, uh,

790
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:11,359
Speaker 1: writing bad song after bad song. Of course, they were

791
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 1: incredible to me because I was trying to trying to

792
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 1: be like Elton. Uh. But I was going to an

793
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:22,239
Speaker 1: all boys prep school at the time called Shamanad, which

794
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:24,799
Speaker 1: people will probably know in the area. It was an

795
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 1: all boys school, and I had short hair and horm

796
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:29,759
Speaker 1: waring glass. It's kind of like Elton you see on

797
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 1: it in his pictures, so I could really really relate

798
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 1: to him also as a as a dude. And uh uh.

799
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:42,759
Speaker 1: I just started writing and trying writing and writing, and

800
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 1: then I wrote a song. Uh. My daddy started doing

801
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 1: the Glenn Campbell's show at about seventy one, I think,

802
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:53,840
Speaker 1: and I wrote a song. My first hit record was

803
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 1: semi hit record was a country western song called Houston,

804
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:00,840
Speaker 1: I'm Coming to see you, and it was Glenn Campbell

805
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:05,319
Speaker 1: made a title track on his album, and so that

806
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:09,959
Speaker 1: gave me the confidence to keep writing and to keep

807
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:13,480
Speaker 1: at it. Okay, a little bit slower. How did you

808
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 1: write that song? How did it get in front of

809
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:18,520
Speaker 1: Glenn Campbell? And how did you feel when he did

810
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:24,359
Speaker 1: cut it? Okay, good questions. Uh again, My my dad

811
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:28,439
Speaker 1: was doing the Glenn Campbell's show. Jimmy Webb had been

812
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:33,200
Speaker 1: writing all of Glenn's uh uh hit records, which had

813
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:38,880
Speaker 1: to do with by the time I get to Phoenix, Galveston, Wichita, Lineman,

814
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:41,920
Speaker 1: all these city songs. So I thought, well, I'll just

815
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:44,799
Speaker 1: do I'll just follow along Jimmy Webb's lines and write

816
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:47,400
Speaker 1: a song called Houston. And so I made up a

817
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 1: little ditty and if you get a chance, you listen

818
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 1: to it, you'll see how I'm kind of trying to

819
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:55,400
Speaker 1: be like Jimmy Webb on it. And then my father,

820
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:58,960
Speaker 1: unbeknownst to me, was so impressed with it, and I

821
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:01,359
Speaker 1: just did it. I had a little Revox two track

822
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:03,680
Speaker 1: it would be belonging to my father where you could

823
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 1: do sound on sound and you could overdub with it.

824
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:10,920
Speaker 1: So my father snagged the tape and you played it

825
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:14,040
Speaker 1: for Glenn Campbell, just my little rough demo that I

826
00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 1: would have never in a million years played anybody to

827
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 1: this day. And Glenn said he liked it and he

828
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:23,000
Speaker 1: wanted to cut it, and I just I was taken aback.

829
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:26,840
Speaker 1: I was just flabbergasted, you know that we he actually

830
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:29,839
Speaker 1: wanted to do my song. So immediately I'm thinking, well,

831
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:32,400
Speaker 1: we gotta get how blamed Joe Osborne and the Cracking

832
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:35,239
Speaker 1: Crew guys cut my song? Like you know, I thought

833
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:38,319
Speaker 1: I was one of the wrecking Crew myself, you know

834
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 1: at the time, And uh, that started it all for me.

835
00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 1: Got on a station, now checked this out. There was

836
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:48,160
Speaker 1: this country western station, uh I used to listen to

837
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:51,239
Speaker 1: when I was going to USC called K Barbecue. How's

838
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:54,200
Speaker 1: that for a radio station? K b b Q, And

839
00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:58,000
Speaker 1: they played it all the time. Did you ever get

840
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:01,720
Speaker 1: paid for it? Sure did. I got a Union's double

841
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:05,160
Speaker 1: scale and I got uh, I got some royalties. I

842
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:09,240
Speaker 1: also won publishing award that year, uh for the most

843
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:13,360
Speaker 1: played Songs as CAP award I think I got. And

844
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:17,920
Speaker 1: I got flown to Nashville and met Roy Clark and

845
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:22,960
Speaker 1: uh all the the big country stars there. What do

846
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:25,879
Speaker 1: you do with the money. What I do with the money? Uh?

847
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:29,359
Speaker 1: Put it toward a car. Well that's what I figured, Yeah,

848
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:32,560
Speaker 1: put it called all all my money. All my money

849
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:36,320
Speaker 1: came from bar Mitzvah's weddings and that song, but mainly

850
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:40,880
Speaker 1: bar Mitzvah's and weddings for four years, all all to

851
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:45,040
Speaker 1: pay for a car. What was the car? Ultimately it

852
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:48,879
Speaker 1: was an Econoline Van three hundred. Because of course I'm

853
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:50,799
Speaker 1: a keyboard player. I have to be able to be

854
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:55,200
Speaker 1: able to fit Fender Rhodes or Hammond Oregon to to

855
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:58,240
Speaker 1: get to the gig. So I bought an Econoline three hundred.

856
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:02,440
Speaker 1: Now the interesting part about this stories. I used to

857
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:04,759
Speaker 1: go on the road with Sonny and Share and I

858
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:08,480
Speaker 1: would park. My parents had another ranch up in santy

859
00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:13,839
Speaker 1: Andez Valley, and uh uh, I used to keep my

860
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:16,440
Speaker 1: van at the ranch when I go on the road

861
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:19,680
Speaker 1: with Sunny and Share for six weeks or seals and crops.

862
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:22,680
Speaker 1: I tour with them and I came back off the

863
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:25,759
Speaker 1: road one day and my van was gone, and I said,

864
00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 1: what where's my van? And my dad said, I sold it?

865
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:31,000
Speaker 1: And I and and I said, what do you mean

866
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:34,200
Speaker 1: you sold it? He goes, it's on my property. He goes, uh,

867
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:37,000
Speaker 1: it's mine. When it's on my property, it's my dad

868
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 1: who was like he was like a junk collector also,

869
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:43,760
Speaker 1: and uh he said, yeah, it was on my property.

870
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:45,279
Speaker 1: So I sold it. I said, well, how much money

871
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:47,680
Speaker 1: did you get for it? He said fifteen hundred dollars.

872
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:49,319
Speaker 1: I said, what did you do with the money? He said,

873
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:53,360
Speaker 1: I spent it, you know, and and it uh uh,

874
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:58,600
Speaker 1: it's just solidified our our relationship so much more. That

875
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:05,160
Speaker 1: sounds like a bad Sorry it is. It isastic. I'm

876
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:09,319
Speaker 1: being sarcastic right now, trying to be okay. So your

877
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 1: relationship with your father was not good as you got older, well,

878
00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 1: you know it was. I always had a great relationship

879
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:17,560
Speaker 1: with my father, him and I. I used to get

880
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:20,320
Speaker 1: to work with him. I was his like his wingman

881
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:24,080
Speaker 1: on sessions. I started out as a pencil sharp there,

882
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:26,319
Speaker 1: which would be and Joseph Williams talk about this all

883
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:28,719
Speaker 1: the time. He did the same thing I did with

884
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:31,319
Speaker 1: his dad, John Williams, which was all we did was

885
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:34,480
Speaker 1: sharpen our dad's pencils when we were allowed in the

886
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:38,239
Speaker 1: room with him to listen to them writing music because

887
00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:41,120
Speaker 1: it was very little music being played on piano. Most

888
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:44,319
Speaker 1: of it was writing between his father and my father. Well,

889
00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 1: let me know the so I'll talk about the relationship

890
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:49,040
Speaker 1: with your father, but let's just move on. You play

891
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:51,640
Speaker 1: in that band with wipe out and drums at eight,

892
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:55,160
Speaker 1: the Beatles hit, When the Beatles hit, When you're ten,

893
00:52:56,000 --> 00:53:00,759
Speaker 1: At what point do you start playing in bands? I

894
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:03,560
Speaker 1: started playing and balanced, well, look again, the first band

895
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:06,200
Speaker 1: I was on drums. Okay, that's my surf band thing.

896
00:53:06,520 --> 00:53:09,480
Speaker 1: But then I started getting There wasn't any really electric

897
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 1: piano instruments, so I started playing acoustic piano when everybody

898
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:16,839
Speaker 1: else had electric guitars and bass. I was playing an

899
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:22,000
Speaker 1: up spin it's spinet pianos at dances for schools and

900
00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:25,959
Speaker 1: stuff like that. I must have been eleven eleven years

901
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:30,120
Speaker 1: old when I started playing in bands with acoustic piano.

902
00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:33,600
Speaker 1: Of course, you couldn't hear me, so we'd always put

903
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:36,600
Speaker 1: a vocal mic into another channel in the amplifier and

904
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:38,640
Speaker 1: stick it down in the piano so you could hear

905
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:41,120
Speaker 1: the piano, which I think a lot of piano players

906
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:43,360
Speaker 1: had to do that at that time because there was

907
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:47,400
Speaker 1: no Fender Rhods yet. But then it's a life changing

908
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 1: situation happened. My dad got me a Fender Rhodes and

909
00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:54,360
Speaker 1: that just all of a sudden, I was able to

910
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:58,400
Speaker 1: be joining a band. That's when you saw Kate Ja

911
00:53:58,520 --> 00:54:00,600
Speaker 1: giving away all that Fender gear and they were giving

912
00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:03,520
Speaker 1: away Fender pianos. When my dad happened to know someone

913
00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:06,440
Speaker 1: that had an adornment, which was Louis Belson, the drummer,

914
00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:11,320
Speaker 1: and uh, I got a Fender Rhodes. And shortly after

915
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:15,239
Speaker 1: that was when my dad did the Glenn Campbell show

916
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:18,880
Speaker 1: and he he hired Joe Pracaro. No, this is no

917
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:22,400
Speaker 1: Lie hired him. Uh, and he just Joe had just

918
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:27,080
Speaker 1: moved out from Connecticut and Joe Pracaro's son was Jeff Pricaro,

919
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:31,680
Speaker 1: and Jeff's band, which is called the Merciful Souls, had

920
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:34,480
Speaker 1: just won the Battle of the Band's contest in the

921
00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:37,520
Speaker 1: Valley in the San Fernando Valley and they just lost

922
00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:41,239
Speaker 1: their piano player. I think he passed away, and Joe says,

923
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:44,240
Speaker 1: they're looking for a piano player, you should get together

924
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:47,480
Speaker 1: with my son and arranged for us to switch numbers.

925
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:50,319
Speaker 1: And that's when I met Jeff Pricaro when I was

926
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:53,839
Speaker 1: like fourteen and a half fifteen years old, and uh

927
00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:58,240
Speaker 1: we became best friends and I played with him ever since. Okay,

928
00:54:58,239 --> 00:55:02,400
Speaker 1: So those bands that you play did bar mitzvah parties, etcetera.

929
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:05,879
Speaker 1: That was with the poor Karo Brothers. No, those are

930
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:10,239
Speaker 1: different bands. There were the Shermer brothers and Dan Holtzman

931
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:15,320
Speaker 1: and his brother and these were specific, specific bar Mitzvah

932
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:18,239
Speaker 1: wedding bands, like the weddings like when you see the

933
00:55:18,239 --> 00:55:20,879
Speaker 1: movie the Wedding Singer. Well, that's why these bands were.

934
00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 1: But all the musicians of the bands were like that.

935
00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:25,680
Speaker 1: So I was a little bit. I was a better

936
00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:28,440
Speaker 1: musician than the guys in most of the bands. But

937
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:30,600
Speaker 1: every once in a while a good drummer would come

938
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:34,719
Speaker 1: in and we'd started taking freedoms with the songs and

939
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:37,200
Speaker 1: turning them into jazz songs and everything like that. So

940
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:39,600
Speaker 1: I got a lot of experience. I got a lot

941
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:44,439
Speaker 1: of time, a chance to play different standards and learn

942
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:49,279
Speaker 1: how to, uh basically play weddings and bar mitzvah's. And

943
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:55,360
Speaker 1: how often did you play? I did about two, three,

944
00:55:55,600 --> 00:56:02,959
Speaker 1: between five and six uh engagements every weekend for four years. Wow. Yeah,

945
00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:08,960
Speaker 1: two engagements a day. Wow. Okay, So that was work,

946
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:14,600
Speaker 1: although you're gaining skills. What about playing traffic? Playing Hendrix?

947
00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:16,840
Speaker 1: Was that with the procrlos? Where who's that with? That

948
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:19,080
Speaker 1: was with the perk Carlo's that's and and also I

949
00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:21,960
Speaker 1: had there was an intermediate band before I met Jeff.

950
00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:24,279
Speaker 1: Uh there was in a band with a guy named

951
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:28,440
Speaker 1: Dan Ferguson, who's uh one of our best friends and

952
00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:32,000
Speaker 1: credible guitarist, and him and I started a band together

953
00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:35,400
Speaker 1: with another singer and we all brought a drummer in

954
00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:38,640
Speaker 1: from Canoga High I think, and we started doing Hendricks

955
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:43,680
Speaker 1: songs and Traffic songs. Uh. For there's a in hitting Hills.

956
00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:46,200
Speaker 1: There was a place called the Hitting Hills Pool and

957
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:48,600
Speaker 1: they used to have dances there and we got the

958
00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:51,319
Speaker 1: gig playing a dance at the pool. So we had

959
00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:53,719
Speaker 1: a stinger who had a strobe believe it or not,

960
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:56,200
Speaker 1: had a microphone and a strobe light, which is why

961
00:56:56,239 --> 00:57:00,440
Speaker 1: we hired him. Okay and uh uh it turned out

962
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:04,040
Speaker 1: to be a incredible gig and uh uh this time

963
00:57:04,080 --> 00:57:07,000
Speaker 1: went on uh and we broke up kind of in

964
00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:10,560
Speaker 1: high school. And that's just when I met Jeff. So

965
00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:14,040
Speaker 1: did you ever meet her? Works with Stevie Winwood? I

966
00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:17,040
Speaker 1: met him one time on the phone. No, I met him.

967
00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:19,360
Speaker 1: I met him, also met him. Uh. They were doing

968
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:22,880
Speaker 1: a tribute to Mike Yamaha did a Mike McDonald I

969
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:26,480
Speaker 1: think tribute, and I think Stevie Winwood was there and

970
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:28,520
Speaker 1: I got to meet him. But Jim Horne, there's a

971
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:31,360
Speaker 1: very famous saxophone player who I met when I was

972
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:35,200
Speaker 1: twelve years old, very famous guy named Jim Horne who's

973
00:57:35,200 --> 00:57:38,040
Speaker 1: played with the Beatles, He's played with Clapton and the Stones.

974
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:45,160
Speaker 1: Everybody knows Jim Horne. Well, uh uh. He introduced He said,

975
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:48,920
Speaker 1: I want to someone's gonna call you today. And I

976
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:52,280
Speaker 1: was in Nashville, Jim, and the phone rang and it

977
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:55,000
Speaker 1: was Jim. It was Stevie Winwood on the phone because

978
00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:56,960
Speaker 1: he knew I was a Stevie Winwood fan, and he

979
00:57:57,000 --> 00:57:59,640
Speaker 1: had introduced himself to me on the phone. And I

980
00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:02,040
Speaker 1: just I was in heaven. I was just like I

981
00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:05,200
Speaker 1: was walking on clouds, you know, because Stevie Winwood was

982
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:08,200
Speaker 1: a big, big influence on me. And when you played

983
00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:10,520
Speaker 1: with the Porcaro's, did you ever play for money or

984
00:58:10,560 --> 00:58:13,480
Speaker 1: were you just playing in the garage. We were at

985
00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:16,040
Speaker 1: the first time, we were playing in the garage. But

986
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:19,800
Speaker 1: there's an old joke that says, how do you want

987
00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:22,440
Speaker 1: how do you get a band to get together and play?

988
00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:25,200
Speaker 1: You find? Get him a gig, you know. So they

989
00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:27,480
Speaker 1: were rehearsing for a gig at the time. We were

990
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:29,520
Speaker 1: learning all these songs. So they had to teach me

991
00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:32,440
Speaker 1: all the new songs, which are mainly blood, Sweat and

992
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:37,920
Speaker 1: Tears songs, Uh, Buddy Miles songs and sly and the

993
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:41,600
Speaker 1: family's own songs, you know. And Uh, I brought in

994
00:58:41,600 --> 00:58:43,280
Speaker 1: a little bit more of the rock and roll stuff.

995
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:46,560
Speaker 1: I brought in the Rolling Stones, Give Me Shelter and

996
00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:49,280
Speaker 1: three Dog Night, and that's what kind of stuff I

997
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:54,439
Speaker 1: was listening to. Okay, many musicians in that era did

998
00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:56,560
Speaker 1: not go to college. How did you end up going

999
00:58:56,560 --> 00:59:02,160
Speaker 1: to college? And did you finish? My dad went to college,

1000
00:59:02,280 --> 00:59:04,000
Speaker 1: and I had a long talk with my dad, dad

1001
00:59:04,040 --> 00:59:07,920
Speaker 1: should I go to college? And he goes, He told me,

1002
00:59:07,960 --> 00:59:12,360
Speaker 1: he says, that's a good question. He goes, Musically, I'm fine.

1003
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:17,120
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be fine musically. But he says his advice

1004
00:59:17,160 --> 00:59:19,680
Speaker 1: to me was, you're gonna go to college one day,

1005
00:59:20,040 --> 00:59:23,120
Speaker 1: and that one day you're gonna learn something that's gonna

1006
00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:25,640
Speaker 1: change your life and be with you for the rest

1007
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:28,440
Speaker 1: of your life. And so I just took his advice.

1008
00:59:28,520 --> 00:59:30,720
Speaker 1: I had total faith in my father, and I went

1009
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:33,960
Speaker 1: to USC for two and a half years, and in fact,

1010
00:59:34,080 --> 00:59:38,160
Speaker 1: there was a day came when they taught modulation UH

1011
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:42,320
Speaker 1: in USC, which is how to modulate from transition from

1012
00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:44,720
Speaker 1: one key to another key. Well, I found out that

1013
00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:48,360
Speaker 1: you have six six different possibilities because you have three

1014
00:59:48,680 --> 00:59:50,760
Speaker 1: three notes on the left hand, three notes on the

1015
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:54,560
Speaker 1: right hand, and for chords, actually four notes on each hand,

1016
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:58,320
Speaker 1: so you can uh pivot between any of those sent

1017
00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:02,200
Speaker 1: four or eight notes as far as changing keys. So

1018
01:00:02,560 --> 01:00:04,640
Speaker 1: I've used it to this day and as far as

1019
01:00:04,640 --> 01:00:09,080
Speaker 1: my songwriting. That's why I'm able to uh navigate through

1020
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:12,880
Speaker 1: the song structures and always find something interesting to do

1021
01:00:13,160 --> 01:00:16,720
Speaker 1: because I know how to pivot and modulate into uh

1022
01:00:16,840 --> 01:00:20,520
Speaker 1: lots of different keys. Why did you drop out? And

1023
01:00:20,560 --> 01:00:25,600
Speaker 1: then what do you do? Uh? I started stopped attending

1024
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:27,600
Speaker 1: classes because I was on the road too much. I

1025
01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:31,400
Speaker 1: was I was conducting for Sunny and Share and unfortunately

1026
01:00:31,440 --> 01:00:35,320
Speaker 1: they didn't have any internship program at USC. I mean,

1027
01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:37,640
Speaker 1: I told him and I asked me how much money

1028
01:00:37,680 --> 01:00:40,520
Speaker 1: I was making and I was making twice as much

1029
01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:43,360
Speaker 1: as the teachers, so they kind of got a little

1030
01:00:43,400 --> 01:00:46,400
Speaker 1: bugged at that. And then I always thought you didn't

1031
01:00:46,400 --> 01:00:48,280
Speaker 1: have as long as you took the test, you could

1032
01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:51,240
Speaker 1: pass college. Well, they started marking me down for attendance

1033
01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:54,280
Speaker 1: because I was I was on the charts. I was

1034
01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:57,400
Speaker 1: working with Seals and Crofts and Sunny and Share and

1035
01:00:57,600 --> 01:01:00,840
Speaker 1: doing professional gigs. But they they they I might as

1036
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:03,840
Speaker 1: well be playing billiards at a pool hall where all

1037
01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:06,320
Speaker 1: they cared at the time. There. You know, I'm sure

1038
01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:08,800
Speaker 1: it's changed now because they have a thought in school

1039
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:12,240
Speaker 1: of music and they have movie sound stages and they

1040
01:01:12,280 --> 01:01:15,680
Speaker 1: teach record production. But all that was that was like

1041
01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:20,080
Speaker 1: joining the circus at the time. So how did you

1042
01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:22,640
Speaker 1: first get these road gigs and who did it start

1043
01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:25,320
Speaker 1: with and who did it evolved too. My first road

1044
01:01:25,360 --> 01:01:30,400
Speaker 1: gig was with Sunny and Share, and funnily enough, Jeff

1045
01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:33,360
Speaker 1: Ricaro had just gotten the gig before I did. So

1046
01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:36,000
Speaker 1: Jeff was the first guy, and he left high school early,

1047
01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:39,400
Speaker 1: didn't graduate high school. He went back and got his diploma,

1048
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:41,480
Speaker 1: but he left high school early to go on the

1049
01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:44,160
Speaker 1: road with Sunny and Share, and they were huge at

1050
01:01:44,200 --> 01:01:47,040
Speaker 1: the time. They were like, how did you get the gig?

1051
01:01:47,560 --> 01:01:53,600
Speaker 1: I got the gig because my dad ended up Sonny Bono.

1052
01:01:53,680 --> 01:01:58,680
Speaker 1: They called my dad to arrange a song for Shares album.

1053
01:01:59,160 --> 01:02:03,200
Speaker 1: I believe he was producing, and he'd heard about Marty Page.

1054
01:02:03,240 --> 01:02:05,320
Speaker 1: He knew Marty Page, and he asked him to arrange

1055
01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:07,880
Speaker 1: a couple of songs. Well, my dad dad hired me,

1056
01:02:08,240 --> 01:02:11,520
Speaker 1: which something he rarely did back then, hired me to

1057
01:02:11,720 --> 01:02:15,400
Speaker 1: play on this song, and Sonny Bono heard me and

1058
01:02:15,440 --> 01:02:20,800
Speaker 1: really flipped out over my plane. So Jeffercarlo calls Sonny

1059
01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:23,640
Speaker 1: and says, I have the new keyboard player for you,

1060
01:02:24,040 --> 01:02:27,080
Speaker 1: and Sonny goes, let's tell that guy to stand down.

1061
01:02:27,320 --> 01:02:29,560
Speaker 1: I just found a new keyboard player. So when I

1062
01:02:29,560 --> 01:02:32,760
Speaker 1: showed up at Jeff's house, Sonny Bono showed up and

1063
01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:35,520
Speaker 1: he goes, here's the new keyboard player. And Jeff goes, well,

1064
01:02:35,560 --> 01:02:38,360
Speaker 1: that's the guy just joined my band. Right there. It

1065
01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:40,600
Speaker 1: was I was the same guy. And that's how I

1066
01:02:40,600 --> 01:02:44,400
Speaker 1: got the gig because Sonny hired me and Jeff recommended

1067
01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:46,800
Speaker 1: him to me. So how long did you work with

1068
01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:49,520
Speaker 1: Sonny and chair? What was that like? That was probably

1069
01:02:49,520 --> 01:02:54,440
Speaker 1: about three years. That was fantastic. Uh, they had private

1070
01:02:54,520 --> 01:02:57,160
Speaker 1: jets at the time, and uh, believe it or not,

1071
01:02:57,200 --> 01:02:59,760
Speaker 1: I came right out of all boys high school and

1072
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:02,640
Speaker 1: the jet that they hired was the Hugh Hefner Playboy Jet.

1073
01:03:03,240 --> 01:03:06,880
Speaker 1: So so it was like, uh, put put us in

1074
01:03:06,920 --> 01:03:09,040
Speaker 1: a in a candy shop, you know what I mean?

1075
01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:11,880
Speaker 1: And uh I was on the road with him for

1076
01:03:11,920 --> 01:03:13,959
Speaker 1: three years. But this is they go on the road

1077
01:03:14,040 --> 01:03:16,760
Speaker 1: for six weeks and then come back for three months.

1078
01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:18,920
Speaker 1: Go on the road for six weeks, come back for

1079
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:20,680
Speaker 1: three months, that kind of thing. But we did a

1080
01:03:20,680 --> 01:03:23,800
Speaker 1: little time in Vegas. I was a musical conductor at

1081
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:26,360
Speaker 1: the Sahara Hotel. My main name was up on the

1082
01:03:26,400 --> 01:03:30,440
Speaker 1: Marquee and I was about nineteen years old. And uh

1083
01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:35,960
Speaker 1: uh that's my sunny and share experience. Okay, were you

1084
01:03:36,040 --> 01:03:41,040
Speaker 1: taking were you partaking of the fruits of the road. Well,

1085
01:03:41,160 --> 01:03:43,600
Speaker 1: funny you should mention that, Bob, because I just I

1086
01:03:43,640 --> 01:03:45,640
Speaker 1: had to send a sign an n d A before

1087
01:03:45,680 --> 01:03:49,120
Speaker 1: I did your program today that forbids me to talk

1088
01:03:49,160 --> 01:03:53,280
Speaker 1: about any rock and roll mischief during that time. Okay,

1089
01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:57,040
Speaker 1: Well that would imply that you did partake in rock

1090
01:03:57,080 --> 01:04:00,040
Speaker 1: and roll. We had a couple of cups of coffee

1091
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:03,080
Speaker 1: and uh Uh. Like I said, there was the eighties,

1092
01:04:03,120 --> 01:04:07,400
Speaker 1: seventies and eighties and uh uh, we'll just leave it

1093
01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:12,840
Speaker 1: at that. Okay. So, uh, you're working with Sonny and Share,

1094
01:04:13,680 --> 01:04:16,640
Speaker 1: they're working like you know once every couple of months.

1095
01:04:17,120 --> 01:04:20,120
Speaker 1: Are you doing any sessions or you just going to school?

1096
01:04:20,120 --> 01:04:23,760
Speaker 1: How do you start doing sessions? I'm uh once I did.

1097
01:04:24,480 --> 01:04:28,000
Speaker 1: I was going to school. They were even flying me

1098
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:30,280
Speaker 1: in to go to school because they wanted me to

1099
01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:32,520
Speaker 1: keep me and my dad says, well, he's going to school.

1100
01:04:32,640 --> 01:04:34,880
Speaker 1: They said, we'll fly him into USC So I go

1101
01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:40,000
Speaker 1: to school once a week on their ticket, and uh

1102
01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:42,840
Speaker 1: what happened. Then the big day came when I did

1103
01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:46,000
Speaker 1: Diamond Girl for Louis Shelton. And as soon as that

1104
01:04:46,080 --> 01:04:48,360
Speaker 1: became a hit record and there's a there, you can

1105
01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:50,600
Speaker 1: pretty much here my piano part on it pretty good.

1106
01:04:51,360 --> 01:04:55,400
Speaker 1: Uh Uh. The word got around and I started getting

1107
01:04:55,480 --> 01:04:59,040
Speaker 1: higher for sessions, a lot of sessions, but I was

1108
01:04:59,080 --> 01:05:01,600
Speaker 1: still doing our myth physic and weddings at the same time.

1109
01:05:02,120 --> 01:05:04,760
Speaker 1: I carried that on because it's always musicians need to

1110
01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:06,800
Speaker 1: pick up money where they can get money. You know.

1111
01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:10,000
Speaker 1: It's not a steady, steady job like a nine to

1112
01:05:10,120 --> 01:05:13,320
Speaker 1: five or although it became that later on when I

1113
01:05:13,360 --> 01:05:16,400
Speaker 1: started getting really busy with sessions. Okay, so you work

1114
01:05:16,440 --> 01:05:18,680
Speaker 1: with Sunny and Chair for three years, why does that

1115
01:05:18,880 --> 01:05:21,200
Speaker 1: end and you go out back out on the road

1116
01:05:21,400 --> 01:05:26,960
Speaker 1: or what that ended? Because I think Sunny and Share

1117
01:05:27,040 --> 01:05:30,520
Speaker 1: we're having they broke up, their marriage broke up, but

1118
01:05:30,560 --> 01:05:33,680
Speaker 1: then they kept it together for a little while and

1119
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:36,520
Speaker 1: we were we were. My dad became the musical director

1120
01:05:36,560 --> 01:05:39,160
Speaker 1: on the Sunny and Chair show after that, and Jeff

1121
01:05:39,160 --> 01:05:41,840
Speaker 1: and I were both playing on that show. And then

1122
01:05:41,880 --> 01:05:46,440
Speaker 1: I think the show either got canceled or something else

1123
01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:48,919
Speaker 1: took it for a break. I think another show came

1124
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:52,520
Speaker 1: in and replaced it, and uh, so we all started

1125
01:05:52,520 --> 01:05:55,600
Speaker 1: looking for gigs, and that's when Jeff joined. I thought

1126
01:05:55,640 --> 01:06:00,280
Speaker 1: we were gonna get out of the ending result out

1127
01:06:00,280 --> 01:06:02,400
Speaker 1: of doing all these gigs was gonna be putting another

1128
01:06:02,480 --> 01:06:06,240
Speaker 1: put our band back together from high school after we

1129
01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:09,680
Speaker 1: eventually got experienced down the road. But Jeff got an

1130
01:06:09,720 --> 01:06:13,040
Speaker 1: invitation and joined Steely Dan, which he accepted because he

1131
01:06:13,080 --> 01:06:16,360
Speaker 1: was a giant ganic Steely Dan freak and uh and

1132
01:06:16,440 --> 01:06:18,959
Speaker 1: he joined Steely Dan. So I thought, well, there's there's

1133
01:06:19,000 --> 01:06:21,040
Speaker 1: goes my dream, you know, and there we will never

1134
01:06:21,400 --> 01:06:23,360
Speaker 1: be able to put the band together and I won't

1135
01:06:23,360 --> 01:06:26,720
Speaker 1: be able to beat Elton John and uh uh it's

1136
01:06:26,960 --> 01:06:30,840
Speaker 1: just looked dismal. And then uh Steely Dan broke up

1137
01:06:31,360 --> 01:06:34,160
Speaker 1: and start hiring session guys, which they've kept hiring Jeff,

1138
01:06:34,520 --> 01:06:38,920
Speaker 1: but they had more no more road band, So Jeff decided, Uh,

1139
01:06:40,080 --> 01:06:43,960
Speaker 1: after silk degrees, which I'm jumping ahead here. After silk degrees,

1140
01:06:44,320 --> 01:06:46,040
Speaker 1: a lot of what do I wait, wait, wait, don't

1141
01:06:46,120 --> 01:06:49,240
Speaker 1: jump ahead, I won't jump ahead, Okay, Sonny and Share.

1142
01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:51,880
Speaker 1: Do you go out with any other bands after Sunny

1143
01:06:51,920 --> 01:06:54,240
Speaker 1: and Share? Yes, I went out with Seals and Crofts,

1144
01:06:55,680 --> 01:06:58,040
Speaker 1: and uh, the only people else I went out with

1145
01:06:58,280 --> 01:07:01,200
Speaker 1: was We're getting to that, which is boss ex. Okay,

1146
01:07:01,720 --> 01:07:06,600
Speaker 1: So you work with Louis Shelton, you start to get,

1147
01:07:07,520 --> 01:07:11,600
Speaker 1: uh studio gigs. At what point can you give up

1148
01:07:11,680 --> 01:07:16,000
Speaker 1: the weekend gigs and just be a studio musician. A

1149
01:07:16,120 --> 01:07:21,120
Speaker 1: couple of years after uh, I think Diamond Girl hit.

1150
01:07:21,600 --> 01:07:24,240
Speaker 1: I think I was doing three days a day, five

1151
01:07:24,360 --> 01:07:28,960
Speaker 1: days a week, which is pretty good. And uh uh

1152
01:07:30,520 --> 01:07:33,160
Speaker 1: you know, I think I stopped taking barn Mitts visit

1153
01:07:33,320 --> 01:07:45,320
Speaker 1: Weddingston I was able to afford that. Okay. Most musicians

1154
01:07:46,080 --> 01:07:50,520
Speaker 1: are heavily networked. Did you get all these studio gigs

1155
01:07:50,760 --> 01:07:54,120
Speaker 1: through your network? Were you working it? At what point?

1156
01:07:54,160 --> 01:07:56,240
Speaker 1: Could you just wait for the phone to ring? What

1157
01:07:56,440 --> 01:07:59,760
Speaker 1: was going on? I was waiting for the phone to

1158
01:08:00,160 --> 01:08:02,920
Speaker 1: a lot of times. A lot of musicians like the

1159
01:08:03,040 --> 01:08:06,240
Speaker 1: network and hang out or my father was always the thing.

1160
01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:09,760
Speaker 1: My father never called anybody for work, so he was

1161
01:08:09,800 --> 01:08:13,240
Speaker 1: always wait, they'll call you. Don't call them, they'll call you.

1162
01:08:13,960 --> 01:08:17,360
Speaker 1: So I was basically sitting around waiting for the phone

1163
01:08:17,400 --> 01:08:20,240
Speaker 1: to ring. And sometimes it would be a contractor saying

1164
01:08:20,280 --> 01:08:22,760
Speaker 1: your father wants you for a date. Sometimes my father

1165
01:08:22,800 --> 01:08:25,080
Speaker 1: would hire me and it would be great because I

1166
01:08:25,120 --> 01:08:27,920
Speaker 1: would be on the inside of the loop as far

1167
01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:32,880
Speaker 1: as the parts go. And uh so uh uh is

1168
01:08:33,080 --> 01:08:38,400
Speaker 1: mainly word of mouth, and that's how musicians get their things,

1169
01:08:38,479 --> 01:08:41,760
Speaker 1: credits on albums. Was that's how networking was done back

1170
01:08:41,800 --> 01:08:45,160
Speaker 1: in the day, you know. And then what kind of

1171
01:08:45,200 --> 01:08:49,879
Speaker 1: sessions were you doing? I was doing R and B sessions.

1172
01:08:49,920 --> 01:08:52,559
Speaker 1: I started working at Motown which was called mo West,

1173
01:08:53,120 --> 01:08:57,559
Speaker 1: where I got to work with uh people like Dean Parks,

1174
01:08:57,960 --> 01:09:02,519
Speaker 1: people like Clarence McDonald. Uh we very rarely knew who

1175
01:09:02,680 --> 01:09:05,200
Speaker 1: the artist was, because on the top of the page

1176
01:09:05,200 --> 01:09:07,680
Speaker 1: they wouldn't put the artist names. They would just cut

1177
01:09:07,720 --> 01:09:10,840
Speaker 1: a track. And because sometimes it would go to Diana Ross,

1178
01:09:11,200 --> 01:09:13,960
Speaker 1: sometimes it would go to Thelmy Houston, and sometimes you

1179
01:09:14,080 --> 01:09:15,800
Speaker 1: just didn't know who the artist was on it. So

1180
01:09:16,360 --> 01:09:18,280
Speaker 1: I I think I worked on some things for Thelmy

1181
01:09:18,360 --> 01:09:22,640
Speaker 1: Houston and Diana Ross, but uh, other than that, I

1182
01:09:22,760 --> 01:09:25,720
Speaker 1: was working a lot of motown. I started doing more

1183
01:09:25,800 --> 01:09:29,200
Speaker 1: seals and crops records and what else was I doing?

1184
01:09:29,400 --> 01:09:32,440
Speaker 1: Just a lot of demos and a lot of freelancing

1185
01:09:32,560 --> 01:09:36,280
Speaker 1: sessions of people that you never heard, you know. So

1186
01:09:36,400 --> 01:09:39,720
Speaker 1: how does it turn into silk degrees? It turns into

1187
01:09:39,760 --> 01:09:44,439
Speaker 1: silk degrees. Uh. One of those dates that Jeff did,

1188
01:09:45,160 --> 01:09:48,519
Speaker 1: uh bos Skaggs decided he wanted to produce a blues

1189
01:09:48,600 --> 01:09:51,639
Speaker 1: guitarist named les Do Deck who was in the Almand

1190
01:09:51,680 --> 01:09:54,920
Speaker 1: Brothers at the time, and Jeff got the call to

1191
01:09:55,080 --> 01:09:57,880
Speaker 1: go play with them. Well, they needed an organ player,

1192
01:09:58,000 --> 01:10:00,920
Speaker 1: so Jeff through my name in the basket and they

1193
01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:03,720
Speaker 1: called me, and so I got to play Oregon and

1194
01:10:03,920 --> 01:10:06,240
Speaker 1: jam and me, Me and Jeff were jamming with him

1195
01:10:06,520 --> 01:10:09,920
Speaker 1: on this album Untiled Less Do Dick. But that's where

1196
01:10:09,920 --> 01:10:13,439
Speaker 1: I met Bozz Skaggs through Jeff Precaro, which I'll I'll

1197
01:10:13,439 --> 01:10:17,240
Speaker 1: always be grateful for, you know. Okay, so you're playing

1198
01:10:17,280 --> 01:10:19,360
Speaker 1: on the Less Do Dick album, which I actually own,

1199
01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:24,240
Speaker 1: and how do you end up working with Boss? Boss

1200
01:10:24,360 --> 01:10:26,840
Speaker 1: is looking to do work with a co writer, which

1201
01:10:26,880 --> 01:10:29,680
Speaker 1: he never did before, and he wanted to be a

1202
01:10:29,760 --> 01:10:33,720
Speaker 1: keyboard player, he thought, and Uh, Jeff sold him, I've

1203
01:10:33,720 --> 01:10:36,760
Speaker 1: got the perfect guy for you, David Page, because I've

1204
01:10:36,800 --> 01:10:40,559
Speaker 1: been playing my songs start the beginnings of my songs

1205
01:10:40,600 --> 01:10:43,400
Speaker 1: on the first album I. Every time we had a session,

1206
01:10:44,080 --> 01:10:46,320
Speaker 1: I would always we'd always start jamming on our songs

1207
01:10:46,360 --> 01:10:49,439
Speaker 1: that we wanted to record eventually when we made a band,

1208
01:10:49,680 --> 01:10:54,599
Speaker 1: which wasn't existing yet. So uh, Boss decided he wanted

1209
01:10:54,640 --> 01:10:57,240
Speaker 1: to co write the next album with me, and so

1210
01:10:57,400 --> 01:10:59,719
Speaker 1: we went up to my dad's place up in santy Ennez,

1211
01:11:00,280 --> 01:11:03,080
Speaker 1: the Ranch, and uh, he sat down on my dad's

1212
01:11:03,120 --> 01:11:06,120
Speaker 1: piano and we wrote half the album. We wrote low Down,

1213
01:11:06,560 --> 01:11:10,120
Speaker 1: we wrote leto Shuffle, we wrote jump Street, we wrote

1214
01:11:10,160 --> 01:11:15,040
Speaker 1: It's Over uh and UH We're All Alone was on that.

1215
01:11:15,280 --> 01:11:20,000
Speaker 1: We wrote that there Boss Binley wrote that, uh, and

1216
01:11:20,520 --> 01:11:23,479
Speaker 1: that's how it happened. Then I got Cheffer, Carl and

1217
01:11:23,560 --> 01:11:26,840
Speaker 1: David Hungate the sunny and share rhythm section, who became

1218
01:11:26,880 --> 01:11:30,320
Speaker 1: the total rhythm section. Uh, and Louis I added Louis

1219
01:11:30,360 --> 01:11:32,960
Speaker 1: Shelton to that compliment. So you're talking about on the

1220
01:11:33,040 --> 01:11:36,320
Speaker 1: Boss Skaggs record. I just took the Luish the Seals

1221
01:11:36,360 --> 01:11:39,720
Speaker 1: and crops rhythm section which was Hungate, Cheffer, Carl and

1222
01:11:39,800 --> 01:11:43,679
Speaker 1: myself and added Louis Shelton to it. And that's that's

1223
01:11:43,840 --> 01:11:46,320
Speaker 1: that was almost total because Louis, Louis wanted to be

1224
01:11:46,360 --> 01:11:51,360
Speaker 1: in the band real bed. Okay, so wait, Louis wanted

1225
01:11:51,400 --> 01:11:53,320
Speaker 1: to be in Boss's Banter he wanted to be and

1226
01:11:53,400 --> 01:11:56,080
Speaker 1: what became Toto he wanted to be and what became Toto?

1227
01:11:56,520 --> 01:11:59,360
Speaker 1: But really, yeah, but we found but we we ran

1228
01:11:59,439 --> 01:12:03,719
Speaker 1: into Luca or too too early, you know. Okay, before

1229
01:12:03,720 --> 01:12:07,280
Speaker 1: we get to Luca third, did you have any idea

1230
01:12:07,479 --> 01:12:11,320
Speaker 1: how big those songs were gonna be? No, we were

1231
01:12:11,400 --> 01:12:16,320
Speaker 1: trying to just make great music and uh, we had done.

1232
01:12:16,479 --> 01:12:18,559
Speaker 1: You know, this is my first chance. I really got

1233
01:12:18,600 --> 01:12:21,600
Speaker 1: to do all the arranging on it and uh and

1234
01:12:22,920 --> 01:12:26,360
Speaker 1: laying the tracks out. But we had no idea because

1235
01:12:26,360 --> 01:12:28,680
Speaker 1: we were trying to do sophisticated stuff. I mean the

1236
01:12:28,760 --> 01:12:33,920
Speaker 1: Lowdown is more of a assistant excuse me, sophisticated song

1237
01:12:34,640 --> 01:12:37,479
Speaker 1: than most songs at that time. We're getting radio play.

1238
01:12:38,360 --> 01:12:41,519
Speaker 1: I have to admit it sounds jazzier to me. And

1239
01:12:41,800 --> 01:12:44,000
Speaker 1: uh so that caught it every That was the first

1240
01:12:44,080 --> 01:12:46,040
Speaker 1: big single off of it. No, I think It's Over

1241
01:12:46,200 --> 01:12:49,960
Speaker 1: was the first single, and then uh uh low Down

1242
01:12:50,120 --> 01:12:52,360
Speaker 1: became the next one after that, and it's just started

1243
01:12:52,360 --> 01:12:55,280
Speaker 1: getting It took off like a bullet, and I think

1244
01:12:55,320 --> 01:12:58,400
Speaker 1: I got the number two with a bullet, and uh

1245
01:12:59,479 --> 01:13:02,360
Speaker 1: that's when we got an ideal. That when then Boss

1246
01:13:03,040 --> 01:13:06,679
Speaker 1: got management at right after that, and it was Irving

1247
01:13:06,760 --> 01:13:09,720
Speaker 1: as off well. Irving had the Eagles and he had

1248
01:13:09,800 --> 01:13:14,040
Speaker 1: Boss Gags, so he just started selling a shipload of records.

1249
01:13:14,640 --> 01:13:16,519
Speaker 1: Uh they were still was sounding like a hundred thousand

1250
01:13:17,000 --> 01:13:20,880
Speaker 1: records a day at the peak of Silk Degrees, and

1251
01:13:21,040 --> 01:13:24,160
Speaker 1: the only album that was ahead of that we never

1252
01:13:24,240 --> 01:13:27,840
Speaker 1: got the number one was Frampton Comes Alive was number

1253
01:13:27,880 --> 01:13:30,519
Speaker 1: one for like twelve weeks. So we were always at

1254
01:13:30,640 --> 01:13:32,760
Speaker 1: number two with a bullet, never got the number one

1255
01:13:32,920 --> 01:13:37,479
Speaker 1: with Silk Degrees. What did Joe Wizard ad or not add?

1256
01:13:39,240 --> 01:13:42,160
Speaker 1: He took care of most of the vocals with Boss

1257
01:13:43,600 --> 01:13:47,720
Speaker 1: and Uh and he you know, picked, helped pick the

1258
01:13:47,800 --> 01:13:52,280
Speaker 1: takes and just in general the overdubs, the background vocals

1259
01:13:52,920 --> 01:13:56,640
Speaker 1: and stuff. But it was a combination of me and

1260
01:13:56,800 --> 01:14:00,960
Speaker 1: him that made the album. Okay, So when Bobs went

1261
01:14:01,000 --> 01:14:03,280
Speaker 1: on the road, did you go the road with him? Yes,

1262
01:14:03,560 --> 01:14:06,120
Speaker 1: I went on the road. Uh, Jeff went on the road,

1263
01:14:06,160 --> 01:14:08,360
Speaker 1: and I think Hungate went on the Hungate went on

1264
01:14:08,400 --> 01:14:11,280
Speaker 1: the road too. And I forget who was playing other

1265
01:14:11,360 --> 01:14:16,240
Speaker 1: guitar part, and I think that Steve Riccaro at this

1266
01:14:16,400 --> 01:14:20,720
Speaker 1: time had just left Gary, right and I think he

1267
01:14:20,920 --> 01:14:23,680
Speaker 1: was looking for a job. And Bobs we needed a

1268
01:14:23,720 --> 01:14:27,000
Speaker 1: second keyboard player to do over for the overdub parts,

1269
01:14:27,280 --> 01:14:30,000
Speaker 1: and we hired Steve Riccaro UH to come in and

1270
01:14:30,040 --> 01:14:32,439
Speaker 1: being part of the rhythm section. So now we had Jeff,

1271
01:14:32,960 --> 01:14:38,760
Speaker 1: David Hungate, myself and Steve Ricardo. Okay, you must have

1272
01:14:38,840 --> 01:14:42,639
Speaker 1: made a fortune on silk degrees. I had a couple

1273
01:14:42,640 --> 01:14:47,840
Speaker 1: of nickels to rub together. Do you still own that publishing? Yes,

1274
01:14:48,920 --> 01:14:51,720
Speaker 1: I own all my publishing. Okay. Would you in this

1275
01:14:51,960 --> 01:14:55,439
Speaker 1: heyday of eighteen to twenty two, multiple would you ever

1276
01:14:55,640 --> 01:14:59,000
Speaker 1: sell it? Not on that kind of multiple. Maybe you

1277
01:14:59,000 --> 01:15:01,479
Speaker 1: give me a twenty seven twenty eight multiple and uh

1278
01:15:02,040 --> 01:15:05,360
Speaker 1: and we'll we I'll consider it. You know, I don't

1279
01:15:05,360 --> 01:15:07,200
Speaker 1: really don't want to sell my publishing at this point.

1280
01:15:07,240 --> 01:15:09,400
Speaker 1: I know everybody else it's the big fads to do

1281
01:15:10,120 --> 01:15:13,040
Speaker 1: and it's and it's a little bit touchy because of

1282
01:15:13,160 --> 01:15:15,679
Speaker 1: the way the financing is going in the United States

1283
01:15:16,200 --> 01:15:20,639
Speaker 1: and how the economy going, and uh uh it's tempting,

1284
01:15:21,640 --> 01:15:25,719
Speaker 1: uh uh, but uh, I would not sell my publishing

1285
01:15:25,760 --> 01:15:28,679
Speaker 1: at this point. At the moment, I I don't believe

1286
01:15:28,680 --> 01:15:30,400
Speaker 1: in it. You know, the light you know, the term

1287
01:15:30,439 --> 01:15:35,120
Speaker 1: of copyright is life plus seventy years. That's a long time,

1288
01:15:35,360 --> 01:15:36,640
Speaker 1: you know. And what are you gonna do with the

1289
01:15:36,720 --> 01:15:39,479
Speaker 1: money after you get it, never mind the wax that

1290
01:15:39,720 --> 01:15:43,280
Speaker 1: the government and other people take from it. So after

1291
01:15:43,479 --> 01:15:47,920
Speaker 1: bos uh silk degrees, what's the next thing you're working on?

1292
01:15:48,439 --> 01:15:51,920
Speaker 1: What did we work on? I think we worked I

1293
01:15:52,040 --> 01:15:55,599
Speaker 1: wasn't sure when we worked on Steely Dan Katie Lide album.

1294
01:15:56,600 --> 01:15:59,880
Speaker 1: Well I did. I've worked on Black Friday and Dr

1295
01:16:00,040 --> 01:16:02,679
Speaker 1: Woo on the Katie Lied album and that was salt

1296
01:16:02,760 --> 01:16:05,880
Speaker 1: and peppered in between the Boss Skaggs years. Because I

1297
01:16:05,880 --> 01:16:09,840
Speaker 1: remember Donald and Walter had heard Silk Degrees and really

1298
01:16:09,920 --> 01:16:12,840
Speaker 1: loved it. So that's why they think. I think they

1299
01:16:12,920 --> 01:16:15,519
Speaker 1: hired me and Jeff to play on Katie Lied. I

1300
01:16:15,600 --> 01:16:17,840
Speaker 1: may be mistaken, but that's how I remember it, and

1301
01:16:17,920 --> 01:16:23,720
Speaker 1: I'm sticking with that story. So. Uh. Then after that,

1302
01:16:25,160 --> 01:16:29,040
Speaker 1: I started getting into the Quincy Jones camp, which he

1303
01:16:29,200 --> 01:16:32,400
Speaker 1: was doing James Ingram and Donna Summers at the time.

1304
01:16:32,920 --> 01:16:35,280
Speaker 1: How I got in there was Steve Bracaro was a

1305
01:16:35,880 --> 01:16:39,360
Speaker 1: very sought after synthesis. He was a programming sense and

1306
01:16:39,439 --> 01:16:42,519
Speaker 1: playing sense for people like David Foster who did all

1307
01:16:42,560 --> 01:16:47,000
Speaker 1: the Chicago stuff. And uh uh, Steve started doing all

1308
01:16:47,040 --> 01:16:50,320
Speaker 1: the Quincy Jones stuff and he got me into the session.

1309
01:16:50,640 --> 01:16:53,760
Speaker 1: I actually kind of snuck into the session. Uh. I

1310
01:16:53,960 --> 01:16:56,760
Speaker 1: was carrying a piece of gear and Steve said, well,

1311
01:16:56,760 --> 01:16:58,640
Speaker 1: why don't you have David play the part? So I

1312
01:16:58,680 --> 01:17:01,360
Speaker 1: started playing parts. They were like the engineer was like,

1313
01:17:01,479 --> 01:17:03,760
Speaker 1: well this, you're pretty good. You should stay. I was

1314
01:17:03,840 --> 01:17:05,800
Speaker 1: kind of a snuck in there. You know. I had

1315
01:17:05,840 --> 01:17:08,360
Speaker 1: actually known Quincy Jones met him when I was fourteen

1316
01:17:08,840 --> 01:17:11,439
Speaker 1: because my dad had been a ranger on some of

1317
01:17:11,560 --> 01:17:14,519
Speaker 1: his solo records. So I had met Quincy at a

1318
01:17:14,600 --> 01:17:17,840
Speaker 1: very early age, so he knew of me, but really

1319
01:17:17,880 --> 01:17:20,599
Speaker 1: I wasn't in his loop, you know. So I got

1320
01:17:20,680 --> 01:17:24,799
Speaker 1: into that, started doing James Ingram record, Donna Summer Record,

1321
01:17:25,280 --> 01:17:28,800
Speaker 1: and then the Michael jab Big Michael Jackson record game. Okay,

1322
01:17:28,840 --> 01:17:33,000
Speaker 1: before the Michael Jackson how come you didn't work on

1323
01:17:33,120 --> 01:17:37,599
Speaker 1: the follow up bozz Gags record? Mm hmmm mm hmm,

1324
01:17:38,080 --> 01:17:43,040
Speaker 1: good question. Uh. It really came down to two credits

1325
01:17:43,800 --> 01:17:47,760
Speaker 1: and and and value how much they valued me. I

1326
01:17:47,840 --> 01:17:52,320
Speaker 1: wanted to co produce on their album, and uh that

1327
01:17:52,479 --> 01:17:55,960
Speaker 1: wasn't flying with him and Joe Wizard for some reason. Uh,

1328
01:17:56,040 --> 01:17:59,360
Speaker 1: they just didn't work out. And so my dad said,

1329
01:17:59,400 --> 01:18:02,040
Speaker 1: I said once and I formed my band. He said, well,

1330
01:18:02,080 --> 01:18:04,400
Speaker 1: you should do this album if you can do it.

1331
01:18:04,479 --> 01:18:08,120
Speaker 1: But if they say no, uh, now is the time

1332
01:18:08,200 --> 01:18:12,479
Speaker 1: to probably form your band, you know, because uh uh

1333
01:18:13,120 --> 01:18:16,640
Speaker 1: you have. There was a lot of people uh smooziness

1334
01:18:16,680 --> 01:18:19,479
Speaker 1: at the time for big record companies because of the

1335
01:18:19,520 --> 01:18:21,840
Speaker 1: boss s Gags thing. And we've been as we went

1336
01:18:21,880 --> 01:18:23,720
Speaker 1: on the road, we kept telling people we're gonna be

1337
01:18:23,800 --> 01:18:27,080
Speaker 1: forming a band, and everybody we got cards from everybody's

1338
01:18:27,160 --> 01:18:31,600
Speaker 1: before cell phones and everything. Everybody had cards. People that

1339
01:18:31,720 --> 01:18:35,160
Speaker 1: we contacted or would play our demos for to get

1340
01:18:35,200 --> 01:18:41,800
Speaker 1: a record deal. So uh it was uh that's because

1341
01:18:41,840 --> 01:18:44,479
Speaker 1: I didn't. I wanted to co produce and basically couldn't.

1342
01:18:45,760 --> 01:18:49,000
Speaker 1: And did he ever come back to the table because

1343
01:18:49,040 --> 01:18:53,439
Speaker 1: he never had as much success as he had with you? Yes,

1344
01:18:53,680 --> 01:18:57,120
Speaker 1: and I did. Uh. I co produced an album called

1345
01:18:57,200 --> 01:19:01,280
Speaker 1: Dig with him that came out and uh I co

1346
01:19:01,439 --> 01:19:03,880
Speaker 1: produced that with him and a couple of other songs

1347
01:19:04,840 --> 01:19:11,679
Speaker 1: off we did remade Low Down and uh Lido Shuffle

1348
01:19:12,000 --> 01:19:14,599
Speaker 1: to do so he could own. He wanted to own

1349
01:19:14,640 --> 01:19:18,920
Speaker 1: the masters on it, so we remade him. So tell

1350
01:19:18,960 --> 01:19:23,360
Speaker 1: me about working with Michael Jackson. Michael Jackson was a perfectionist.

1351
01:19:23,520 --> 01:19:25,800
Speaker 1: I would love him. He was the sweetheart to work with.

1352
01:19:26,840 --> 01:19:31,800
Speaker 1: He totally gave a total autonomy whenever you were doing

1353
01:19:31,960 --> 01:19:34,560
Speaker 1: something too. If you heard doing this or heard in

1354
01:19:34,600 --> 01:19:37,519
Speaker 1: a choir or one of an orchestra or one of you,

1355
01:19:37,680 --> 01:19:41,680
Speaker 1: just say, just think big, use your imagination, he would say.

1356
01:19:41,920 --> 01:19:44,920
Speaker 1: He would say, I think, imagine you're Michael Angelo and

1357
01:19:44,960 --> 01:19:47,519
Speaker 1: your painting the Sistine Chapel. That's why I want you

1358
01:19:47,600 --> 01:19:50,720
Speaker 1: to produce, arrange your your part. You know, because he

1359
01:19:50,760 --> 01:19:52,800
Speaker 1: didn't treat you like he were just a musician. He

1360
01:19:52,920 --> 01:19:56,120
Speaker 1: treated you like he were a creative force in making

1361
01:19:56,160 --> 01:19:59,720
Speaker 1: a part of his music. So, uh, I got in

1362
01:19:59,800 --> 01:20:02,120
Speaker 1: a room with him and we were just playing music.

1363
01:20:02,680 --> 01:20:05,080
Speaker 1: I was playing I think it was Billy Jean, which

1364
01:20:05,160 --> 01:20:08,360
Speaker 1: I didn't end up playing on, but I played. I

1365
01:20:08,520 --> 01:20:11,240
Speaker 1: did a couple of overdubs on it, and he he

1366
01:20:11,360 --> 01:20:13,759
Speaker 1: let a couple of mistakes go by, and I stopped

1367
01:20:13,840 --> 01:20:16,240
Speaker 1: him right there and I said, Michael, you're you're sloughing off.

1368
01:20:16,479 --> 01:20:19,320
Speaker 1: I said, I'm a perfectionist and he goes, well, so

1369
01:20:19,439 --> 01:20:21,280
Speaker 1: am I. He goes, you don't mind. You don't mind

1370
01:20:21,320 --> 01:20:23,680
Speaker 1: if I say you're you made a mistake there. I said, no,

1371
01:20:23,920 --> 01:20:25,720
Speaker 1: I want just to bust me on it. So I

1372
01:20:25,800 --> 01:20:28,400
Speaker 1: went back, cleaned up all my stuff, and from there

1373
01:20:28,439 --> 01:20:30,600
Speaker 1: on her him and his relationship was great because he

1374
01:20:30,680 --> 01:20:33,040
Speaker 1: said he'd go in a room and go, yeah, David's

1375
01:20:33,040 --> 01:20:34,200
Speaker 1: got to be in the room with me when I

1376
01:20:34,240 --> 01:20:37,320
Speaker 1: do vocals. He's a perfectionist like I am. He say

1377
01:20:37,439 --> 01:20:39,479
Speaker 1: this to people, and I'm Quincy Jones would be in

1378
01:20:39,479 --> 01:20:41,719
Speaker 1: the room and be a get embarrassing after a while,

1379
01:20:41,840 --> 01:20:47,479
Speaker 1: you know. So why was it a phenomenon? Was it?

1380
01:20:47,800 --> 01:20:52,120
Speaker 1: Michael was a que who do we give the credit to.

1381
01:20:53,479 --> 01:20:55,800
Speaker 1: I think you can start with them. I think you

1382
01:20:55,800 --> 01:20:59,640
Speaker 1: can start with Quincy Jones. Uh put Lane the groundwork

1383
01:20:59,760 --> 01:21:03,960
Speaker 1: of again, giving him a cast of characters to choose from,

1384
01:21:04,760 --> 01:21:07,120
Speaker 1: uh to play on all these albums, I mean all

1385
01:21:07,160 --> 01:21:10,080
Speaker 1: the bets best players were sitting out in the hallway

1386
01:21:10,400 --> 01:21:12,920
Speaker 1: ready to go in. It was like relief pictures for

1387
01:21:13,040 --> 01:21:15,680
Speaker 1: the Dodgers or something, you know what I mean, bad example.

1388
01:21:16,280 --> 01:21:19,600
Speaker 1: Um Uh. There was Foster, there was Me, there was

1389
01:21:19,680 --> 01:21:23,479
Speaker 1: filling Games, there was Michael Boddicker, there was Steve Racrl,

1390
01:21:23,640 --> 01:21:26,080
Speaker 1: all sitting in the hallway to go. Each go in

1391
01:21:26,280 --> 01:21:29,000
Speaker 1: for whatever duties you need to do, either tune in

1392
01:21:29,080 --> 01:21:32,840
Speaker 1: a scent or getting figuring out the tempos or uh

1393
01:21:33,600 --> 01:21:37,360
Speaker 1: uh one of a million things that you could possibly

1394
01:21:37,400 --> 01:21:39,599
Speaker 1: be doing. So back to your what you were saying,

1395
01:21:40,000 --> 01:21:44,439
Speaker 1: I think Quincy had framed the whole package and let

1396
01:21:44,600 --> 01:21:48,400
Speaker 1: Michael just be a great artist, which he is incredible artist,

1397
01:21:48,840 --> 01:21:52,400
Speaker 1: and Quincy uh is a song man and made sure

1398
01:21:52,439 --> 01:21:55,320
Speaker 1: that all the songs were up to par and uh

1399
01:21:56,240 --> 01:22:00,799
Speaker 1: uh he even called McCartney and uh, I think McCartney

1400
01:22:00,800 --> 01:22:03,719
Speaker 1: may have approached him, but Quincy may have approached McCartney.

1401
01:22:03,880 --> 01:22:06,080
Speaker 1: I'm not sure I got to check that out about

1402
01:22:06,120 --> 01:22:08,519
Speaker 1: the Girl is Mine because they wanted to get a

1403
01:22:08,600 --> 01:22:11,360
Speaker 1: duet on the album, and who other than Paul McCartney,

1404
01:22:11,400 --> 01:22:15,559
Speaker 1: you know, perfect call, perfect casting right there, So uh uh,

1405
01:22:16,400 --> 01:22:19,800
Speaker 1: that was I think Quincy and Michael, and not to

1406
01:22:19,880 --> 01:22:22,720
Speaker 1: mention all the great musicians that played on the record too,

1407
01:22:22,960 --> 01:22:26,080
Speaker 1: you know, and a guy who I love dearly who's

1408
01:22:26,120 --> 01:22:28,920
Speaker 1: not with us any doing more named Rod Temperton who

1409
01:22:28,960 --> 01:22:31,640
Speaker 1: wrote most of those songs on the Thriller album. He

1410
01:22:31,800 --> 01:22:34,400
Speaker 1: was he made great demos and was a great songwriter.

1411
01:22:36,160 --> 01:22:44,720
Speaker 1: And do you think Michael changed with the success? Uh?

1412
01:22:46,720 --> 01:22:50,880
Speaker 1: I think that success changes alters everybody a little bit.

1413
01:22:51,360 --> 01:22:55,759
Speaker 1: Not maybe everybody, but most people are affected by it somehow.

1414
01:22:55,800 --> 01:22:59,120
Speaker 1: And I think that when that album became so big,

1415
01:23:00,200 --> 01:23:03,120
Speaker 1: I don't think Michael was insulated enough to keep all

1416
01:23:03,200 --> 01:23:06,919
Speaker 1: the other people away from the people that weren't interested

1417
01:23:06,960 --> 01:23:11,479
Speaker 1: in him for his talent. And uh uh, he started

1418
01:23:11,520 --> 01:23:15,479
Speaker 1: making bigger deals with outside people and and just becoming

1419
01:23:15,560 --> 01:23:20,800
Speaker 1: a larger than life figure. So I think that I

1420
01:23:20,920 --> 01:23:24,720
Speaker 1: think I can't actually put my finger on it, but

1421
01:23:24,840 --> 01:23:28,120
Speaker 1: I think success may have put him in a certain

1422
01:23:28,240 --> 01:23:32,920
Speaker 1: perspective let him view everything for a certain lens and

1423
01:23:33,360 --> 01:23:36,719
Speaker 1: uh that maybe the normal person wouldn't view the world,

1424
01:23:37,040 --> 01:23:44,559
Speaker 1: you know. Okay, so you're out with the bos. How

1425
01:23:44,600 --> 01:23:47,280
Speaker 1: does the how do you meet Lucather? To begin with

1426
01:23:48,920 --> 01:23:53,479
Speaker 1: good question, I met him uh at a high school

1427
01:23:54,160 --> 01:23:57,439
Speaker 1: we were playing. They were playing a gig. The follow

1428
01:23:57,560 --> 01:24:00,360
Speaker 1: up band. You have to understand our band, it's called

1429
01:24:00,439 --> 01:24:02,840
Speaker 1: still Life in high school. Well, when we all left

1430
01:24:02,920 --> 01:24:06,040
Speaker 1: with Mike Ricaro and Jeff and Jeff and I left,

1431
01:24:06,560 --> 01:24:10,479
Speaker 1: Steve Pricaro and Steve Lucas took over our band, which

1432
01:24:10,640 --> 01:24:14,439
Speaker 1: was called still Life, so they became still Life And

1433
01:24:14,760 --> 01:24:19,160
Speaker 1: excuse me, uh uh, so I world start getting around

1434
01:24:19,280 --> 01:24:21,559
Speaker 1: when we started looking for a band to put together.

1435
01:24:22,800 --> 01:24:25,280
Speaker 1: Uh that there was this guy, Steve Lukather, and you

1436
01:24:25,320 --> 01:24:27,600
Speaker 1: guys ought to really check him out. Actually, there was

1437
01:24:27,640 --> 01:24:30,720
Speaker 1: two guitar players, Steve Lukather and Mike Landau. They were

1438
01:24:30,800 --> 01:24:33,960
Speaker 1: both in the same band. And but me and Jeff

1439
01:24:34,000 --> 01:24:35,960
Speaker 1: went down to Taft High School, which is right down

1440
01:24:36,000 --> 01:24:42,240
Speaker 1: the street here, and I saw somebody running around on

1441
01:24:42,439 --> 01:24:47,120
Speaker 1: stage and it looked like some derelict or something like this,

1442
01:24:47,280 --> 01:24:49,840
Speaker 1: some older guy. And as I got closer to the stage,

1443
01:24:50,200 --> 01:24:53,120
Speaker 1: I realized that the guitar player was a guitar player,

1444
01:24:53,439 --> 01:24:57,280
Speaker 1: and he had a monkey mask on on stage wearing it,

1445
01:24:57,840 --> 01:24:59,920
Speaker 1: and the when when I got up closer to the

1446
01:25:00,080 --> 01:25:03,360
Speaker 1: stage you could see him, he ran and jumped through

1447
01:25:03,400 --> 01:25:05,639
Speaker 1: the air like Pete Townsend and slid on his knees

1448
01:25:06,120 --> 01:25:09,439
Speaker 1: and got up and saying Johnny be Good with his

1449
01:25:09,920 --> 01:25:13,320
Speaker 1: impression of Johnny Winter kind of voice on Johnny be Good,

1450
01:25:13,640 --> 01:25:16,840
Speaker 1: and Jeff says, Jett goes, there's our front man right there,

1451
01:25:17,200 --> 01:25:19,439
Speaker 1: Jeff pointing to him and says, there's our front man.

1452
01:25:19,560 --> 01:25:21,960
Speaker 1: You know. I was just listening to the guitar playing

1453
01:25:22,240 --> 01:25:25,040
Speaker 1: and he was just playing faster than ship. And Landau

1454
01:25:25,120 --> 01:25:27,280
Speaker 1: was playing a strato caster, which I was a big

1455
01:25:27,360 --> 01:25:30,360
Speaker 1: Strap fan, so I was kind of leaning towards Landau

1456
01:25:30,800 --> 01:25:35,000
Speaker 1: because uh of a strato caster playing, But Jeff Saud said,

1457
01:25:35,040 --> 01:25:38,000
Speaker 1: that's what we need. He's a star. Jeff recognized that

1458
01:25:38,080 --> 01:25:40,240
Speaker 1: Luca there was a star from the beginning there. So

1459
01:25:40,840 --> 01:25:42,920
Speaker 1: that's how we met. And I started going to some

1460
01:25:43,040 --> 01:25:45,240
Speaker 1: of their gigs, sitting in on some of their gigs

1461
01:25:45,960 --> 01:25:49,479
Speaker 1: when they would go play UH Beverly Hills UH High

1462
01:25:49,520 --> 01:25:52,120
Speaker 1: School and they'd have their their gig at the Beverly

1463
01:25:52,200 --> 01:25:56,200
Speaker 1: Hills Hotel. I showed up, uh did a cameo performance

1464
01:25:56,200 --> 01:25:58,519
Speaker 1: and played with him a couple of times. So uh,

1465
01:25:58,840 --> 01:26:01,800
Speaker 1: I think even jeff Off got Steely, Donald and Walter

1466
01:26:02,320 --> 01:26:04,120
Speaker 1: to come down to one of their gigs because they

1467
01:26:04,120 --> 01:26:07,840
Speaker 1: were so fabulous and hear the band. And how did

1468
01:26:07,960 --> 01:26:13,320
Speaker 1: Lucather get into sessions? Lucather started, Lucy got into our band,

1469
01:26:13,920 --> 01:26:16,960
Speaker 1: and that's how he got sessions. Once once with Jeffrey,

1470
01:26:17,040 --> 01:26:20,360
Speaker 1: Carl put his arm around you. That was the guy

1471
01:26:20,439 --> 01:26:22,240
Speaker 1: to be, you know what I mean, because everybody, a

1472
01:26:22,320 --> 01:26:26,639
Speaker 1: lot of other people we go that should uh go nameless.

1473
01:26:26,960 --> 01:26:29,160
Speaker 1: A lot of people wanted the guitar spot on on

1474
01:26:29,280 --> 01:26:32,439
Speaker 1: the total thing. But Lucas showed up. He just showed

1475
01:26:32,520 --> 01:26:34,559
Speaker 1: up when we were making our demos and we didn't

1476
01:26:34,600 --> 01:26:36,680
Speaker 1: put the word out or call or anything. He just

1477
01:26:36,800 --> 01:26:39,439
Speaker 1: shirt up, showed up. We sat in the hall and

1478
01:26:39,560 --> 01:26:42,080
Speaker 1: learned the tunes out of the hallway and came in

1479
01:26:42,479 --> 01:26:47,320
Speaker 1: and just roasted the four songs like a guy that's

1480
01:26:47,360 --> 01:26:51,000
Speaker 1: been playing him for twenty years. It was unbelievable, you know,

1481
01:26:51,040 --> 01:26:52,920
Speaker 1: it was phenomenal. We just Jeff and I were just

1482
01:26:53,000 --> 01:26:55,400
Speaker 1: looking at each other, was shaking our heads. We couldn't

1483
01:26:55,439 --> 01:26:57,840
Speaker 1: believe it, you know, because these were just songs that

1484
01:26:58,160 --> 01:27:00,840
Speaker 1: were just freshly written that you know, And so he

1485
01:27:00,920 --> 01:27:03,840
Speaker 1: put the original guitar parts on. So Jeff started taking

1486
01:27:03,920 --> 01:27:05,920
Speaker 1: him around when Jeff would do a session, because you

1487
01:27:06,040 --> 01:27:08,519
Speaker 1: gotta meet you gotta use Steve lukeather on guitar. You

1488
01:27:08,640 --> 01:27:11,599
Speaker 1: got and introduced him to Larry Carlton. So guitar players

1489
01:27:11,600 --> 01:27:14,759
Speaker 1: started recommending him when they couldn't make gigs, you know where.

1490
01:27:14,800 --> 01:27:16,760
Speaker 1: He got around very fast about Luke. He was a

1491
01:27:16,840 --> 01:27:20,360
Speaker 1: quick learner. And how did Bobby Kimball get in the band?

1492
01:27:21,160 --> 01:27:24,200
Speaker 1: Bobby Kimball was in a band I was gonna co

1493
01:27:24,400 --> 01:27:28,280
Speaker 1: produce called SS Fools, which is the old Three Dog

1494
01:27:28,439 --> 01:27:31,320
Speaker 1: Night rhythm section, and they had a band, and Jeff

1495
01:27:31,360 --> 01:27:34,200
Speaker 1: and I had been rehearsing with that band with those

1496
01:27:34,280 --> 01:27:39,519
Speaker 1: guys uh before to make a band called SS Fools,

1497
01:27:39,920 --> 01:27:41,760
Speaker 1: But me and Jeff didn't want to join the band.

1498
01:27:41,840 --> 01:27:43,960
Speaker 1: We just wanted to make the record. So we were

1499
01:27:44,000 --> 01:27:47,080
Speaker 1: playing with this guy Joe Schremy and a couple other

1500
01:27:47,280 --> 01:27:51,240
Speaker 1: ex guys from Three Dog Night and Bobby Kimball was

1501
01:27:51,439 --> 01:27:54,840
Speaker 1: one of the singers, and uh, he would I all

1502
01:27:54,920 --> 01:27:56,519
Speaker 1: I noticed when he would sit and play a song

1503
01:27:56,600 --> 01:28:00,360
Speaker 1: by himself, it would practically shatter windows. And he could

1504
01:28:00,360 --> 01:28:04,160
Speaker 1: sing really high, really high, and really powerful and really

1505
01:28:04,240 --> 01:28:07,040
Speaker 1: bluesy because it was from New Orleans and so it

1506
01:28:07,120 --> 01:28:11,400
Speaker 1: was very powerful and very very funky, and uh uh,

1507
01:28:12,040 --> 01:28:16,519
Speaker 1: we try to contact other singers. I asked Mike McDonald

1508
01:28:16,600 --> 01:28:18,760
Speaker 1: to be in the band. I asked Kenny Loggins to

1509
01:28:18,800 --> 01:28:21,439
Speaker 1: be in the band. I was Mickey Thomps Thomas to

1510
01:28:21,479 --> 01:28:23,400
Speaker 1: be in the band, and they were all wanted us

1511
01:28:23,439 --> 01:28:26,240
Speaker 1: to join their bands. Uh So it was a kind

1512
01:28:26,280 --> 01:28:29,400
Speaker 1: of a stalemate. It was a push and uh at

1513
01:28:29,439 --> 01:28:31,720
Speaker 1: the last minute because I had done the vocals on

1514
01:28:31,800 --> 01:28:35,559
Speaker 1: the demos, which were barely acceptable, but they were okay

1515
01:28:35,880 --> 01:28:39,360
Speaker 1: for people to listen to. I finally they kept saying,

1516
01:28:39,680 --> 01:28:43,400
Speaker 1: how's your vocals gonna be? People kept questioning, well, what's Total?

1517
01:28:43,439 --> 01:28:45,920
Speaker 1: We know Total can play, but who does their vocals?

1518
01:28:45,920 --> 01:28:49,040
Speaker 1: Who's the singer? And how are the vocals gonna be? Now,

1519
01:28:49,120 --> 01:28:52,160
Speaker 1: you have to understand, this was a time when Boston

1520
01:28:52,439 --> 01:28:55,160
Speaker 1: had just come out and owned the charts and Foreigner

1521
01:28:55,320 --> 01:28:58,360
Speaker 1: was out, So backgrounds were heavy and they had to

1522
01:28:58,400 --> 01:29:01,799
Speaker 1: be high and powerful. So I just took a chance

1523
01:29:02,400 --> 01:29:05,479
Speaker 1: and we Uh. I brought Bobby Kimball in and to

1524
01:29:05,560 --> 01:29:08,439
Speaker 1: audition with us, and the first thing we did was

1525
01:29:08,560 --> 01:29:12,360
Speaker 1: hold the Line. We we rehearsed that. On the first

1526
01:29:12,400 --> 01:29:15,960
Speaker 1: time we played it, it sounded al just like the

1527
01:29:16,040 --> 01:29:18,800
Speaker 1: record with him singing, Luca there on guitar, me and

1528
01:29:18,920 --> 01:29:22,280
Speaker 1: Jeff on our instruments and Hungate on drums, and that's

1529
01:29:22,320 --> 01:29:26,200
Speaker 1: what sold us on him. Okay, So hold the Line

1530
01:29:26,320 --> 01:29:30,160
Speaker 1: came before the record deal or vice versa. Hold the

1531
01:29:30,280 --> 01:29:34,280
Speaker 1: line came before the record deal? Yes, and how did

1532
01:29:34,320 --> 01:29:35,880
Speaker 1: you get the record deal? And how did you end

1533
01:29:35,960 --> 01:29:41,720
Speaker 1: up on Columbia? Uh? We were, Jeff. Jeff always kept

1534
01:29:42,080 --> 01:29:44,640
Speaker 1: a cassette. We always kept cassettes of our demos in

1535
01:29:44,720 --> 01:29:49,599
Speaker 1: our pockets. And because we visited every session in town,

1536
01:29:50,160 --> 01:29:53,719
Speaker 1: we would also meet all the record executives from every company.

1537
01:29:54,320 --> 01:29:57,200
Speaker 1: So every time there'd be a break on the session,

1538
01:29:57,439 --> 01:30:00,520
Speaker 1: Jeff would pop in our cassette and let the executives

1539
01:30:00,600 --> 01:30:03,679
Speaker 1: listened to it from that company. So every company knew

1540
01:30:03,720 --> 01:30:07,800
Speaker 1: about us, Warner Brothers, UH, CBS, you name it, they

1541
01:30:07,840 --> 01:30:12,839
Speaker 1: all knew about us, and uh we were. Warner Brothers

1542
01:30:13,439 --> 01:30:18,960
Speaker 1: was bidding against CBS. Uh, because CBS wanted to sign us,

1543
01:30:19,360 --> 01:30:23,679
Speaker 1: but Warners wasn't bid, wasn't was bidding against Warner CBS.

1544
01:30:24,320 --> 01:30:27,280
Speaker 1: So we got a call from Walter yet Nikov, who

1545
01:30:27,360 --> 01:30:29,800
Speaker 1: was president of CBS at the time, to Cheff South

1546
01:30:30,320 --> 01:30:32,719
Speaker 1: and he said he wanted us to go. He would

1547
01:30:32,960 --> 01:30:35,160
Speaker 1: he wanted us to be on CBS. So he wanted

1548
01:30:35,240 --> 01:30:39,560
Speaker 1: to stop this uh bidding war, bidding war nonsense and

1549
01:30:39,880 --> 01:30:45,360
Speaker 1: uh uh he wanted uh. Two managers called Fitzgerald and Hartley,

1550
01:30:45,920 --> 01:30:49,759
Speaker 1: Mark Hartley and Larry Fitzgerald managers because they were managing Chicago.

1551
01:30:50,400 --> 01:30:52,759
Speaker 1: And I know Larry had been tour manager from McCarty

1552
01:30:52,840 --> 01:30:55,040
Speaker 1: on this tour, so I know they had touring and

1553
01:30:55,120 --> 01:30:57,280
Speaker 1: they knew how to work the record company. The reason

1554
01:30:57,439 --> 01:31:02,400
Speaker 1: the manly higher managers is at that time was because

1555
01:31:02,439 --> 01:31:05,519
Speaker 1: they knew how to manipulate the record companies. So we

1556
01:31:05,640 --> 01:31:08,880
Speaker 1: knew that they had were in good standing with Sony,

1557
01:31:09,240 --> 01:31:12,120
Speaker 1: and yet Nikov had requested that we do it that way.

1558
01:31:12,439 --> 01:31:16,200
Speaker 1: So we followed Waltri Yetnikov's lead in there and went

1559
01:31:16,280 --> 01:31:19,960
Speaker 1: with Sony. Uh instead of smaller labels and stuff like that.

1560
01:31:20,600 --> 01:31:24,519
Speaker 1: And uh uh it was they signed us without even

1561
01:31:24,520 --> 01:31:26,920
Speaker 1: seeing us performed live. I think the guy that signed

1562
01:31:26,960 --> 01:31:29,479
Speaker 1: us got fired because of that, but they were. There

1563
01:31:29,600 --> 01:31:33,240
Speaker 1: was so much confidence in a total at that time

1564
01:31:33,360 --> 01:31:38,640
Speaker 1: unseen that just the word of mouth got us signed. Now,

1565
01:31:38,720 --> 01:31:44,680
Speaker 1: in the first album, you wrote almost all the songs. Uh.

1566
01:31:45,240 --> 01:31:47,639
Speaker 1: I think that's probably because I started to writing songs

1567
01:31:47,760 --> 01:31:50,559
Speaker 1: before everyone No, everyone else was kind of there were

1568
01:31:50,600 --> 01:31:54,479
Speaker 1: mainly musicians not songwriters. Where I had been writing songs

1569
01:31:55,040 --> 01:31:59,400
Speaker 1: for the last I don't know, ten years be time

1570
01:31:59,439 --> 01:32:03,720
Speaker 1: to be between uh, let's see, or maybe five years,

1571
01:32:04,040 --> 01:32:06,280
Speaker 1: five years before the band, and so I had this

1572
01:32:06,439 --> 01:32:10,840
Speaker 1: backlog of pieces of songs, not unlike my my solo

1573
01:32:10,960 --> 01:32:13,639
Speaker 1: record here, which had pieces of songs. But I started

1574
01:32:13,680 --> 01:32:16,400
Speaker 1: putting the pieces together and made these songs, made the

1575
01:32:16,760 --> 01:32:19,080
Speaker 1: most of the songs that you heard on the very

1576
01:32:19,160 --> 01:32:21,320
Speaker 1: first album. It's just that I had a head start

1577
01:32:21,600 --> 01:32:24,960
Speaker 1: and I had a backlog of songs. Uh to popularly,

1578
01:32:25,320 --> 01:32:27,519
Speaker 1: plus so I wrote, I wrote why we were doing

1579
01:32:27,600 --> 01:32:31,320
Speaker 1: the record too, so uh uh, maybe I just was

1580
01:32:31,400 --> 01:32:33,360
Speaker 1: a little bit of because I'm a little bit older

1581
01:32:33,400 --> 01:32:36,880
Speaker 1: than Lucather and uh and Steve Riccaro and the guy.

1582
01:32:37,000 --> 01:32:38,840
Speaker 1: So I had a little bit of head start. Those

1583
01:32:38,920 --> 01:32:43,439
Speaker 1: were like undergrads. Okay, did you know whole the line

1584
01:32:43,520 --> 01:32:46,040
Speaker 1: was going to be a hit. No, but I was

1585
01:32:46,080 --> 01:32:48,120
Speaker 1: hoping it would be a hit, but I didn't know.

1586
01:32:48,760 --> 01:32:51,040
Speaker 1: All I know was is catchy. It was very catchy.

1587
01:32:51,800 --> 01:32:56,160
Speaker 1: And uh, I loved hot fun in the summertime by

1588
01:32:56,200 --> 01:32:58,679
Speaker 1: Slice Stone. So I wanted to write something that made

1589
01:32:58,720 --> 01:33:01,799
Speaker 1: me feel like that, and so I, uh, I started

1590
01:33:01,800 --> 01:33:04,920
Speaker 1: playing this riff when I got out of when I

1591
01:33:05,040 --> 01:33:07,720
Speaker 1: moved out of my parents house and I got an

1592
01:33:07,720 --> 01:33:11,320
Speaker 1: apartment in Westwood, and I got an upright piano and

1593
01:33:11,400 --> 01:33:13,960
Speaker 1: I started playing this riff and I didn't stop playing

1594
01:33:14,000 --> 01:33:16,040
Speaker 1: the riff for about three days. I started to keep

1595
01:33:16,080 --> 01:33:18,960
Speaker 1: playing the song, working on the song, and the neighbor

1596
01:33:19,040 --> 01:33:21,200
Speaker 1: next door neighbors started pounding on the wall for me

1597
01:33:21,320 --> 01:33:24,360
Speaker 1: to stop. It got so monotonous. So we we we

1598
01:33:24,560 --> 01:33:26,799
Speaker 1: we rehearsed it. That's when we went to the studio

1599
01:33:27,160 --> 01:33:30,200
Speaker 1: and rehearsed with Bobby Kimball and found out that, yeah,

1600
01:33:30,479 --> 01:33:34,160
Speaker 1: we have a band here, which meant all these little

1601
01:33:34,200 --> 01:33:37,720
Speaker 1: pieces of songs, whatever I have possibly going, we have

1602
01:33:37,840 --> 01:33:39,760
Speaker 1: a band. We have an outlet for where there's a

1603
01:33:39,840 --> 01:33:43,519
Speaker 1: vehicle for it. Now, UH that that we proved ourselves

1604
01:33:43,760 --> 01:33:47,320
Speaker 1: withhold the line. So we started rehearsing the other songs

1605
01:33:47,720 --> 01:33:51,519
Speaker 1: to go in and cut the first album. So it's

1606
01:33:51,560 --> 01:33:55,880
Speaker 1: a success, you know, back and there there, I mean

1607
01:33:56,040 --> 01:33:59,720
Speaker 1: the record was everywhere. What changed? I mean then you

1608
01:33:59,800 --> 01:34:01,000
Speaker 1: have to go on the road, you have to go

1609
01:34:01,080 --> 01:34:04,160
Speaker 1: to photo shoots. What was it like? It was? It

1610
01:34:04,320 --> 01:34:06,000
Speaker 1: was we had a lot of smiles on our face.

1611
01:34:06,160 --> 01:34:09,920
Speaker 1: You know. The album went double platinum and uh we

1612
01:34:10,040 --> 01:34:14,240
Speaker 1: were supposed to We got an agent, uh uh the

1613
01:34:14,360 --> 01:34:17,639
Speaker 1: booking agents and what we kept telling people we wanted

1614
01:34:17,680 --> 01:34:19,960
Speaker 1: the headline the first time out because we'd heard of

1615
01:34:20,040 --> 01:34:22,679
Speaker 1: other bands doing that successfully if they had a great

1616
01:34:22,760 --> 01:34:27,519
Speaker 1: live show. So we kept telling our They kept wanting

1617
01:34:27,600 --> 01:34:29,840
Speaker 1: us to open for people, and we didn't want to

1618
01:34:29,920 --> 01:34:32,160
Speaker 1: do that. So they booked us and we started working

1619
01:34:32,240 --> 01:34:37,120
Speaker 1: small gigs uh around as as the headliners. Of course

1620
01:34:37,160 --> 01:34:39,960
Speaker 1: there were just small venues at the time. But we

1621
01:34:40,040 --> 01:34:42,840
Speaker 1: started going on the road and as our records started

1622
01:34:42,880 --> 01:34:46,840
Speaker 1: taking off. Uh, we got an offer from Japan to

1623
01:34:46,960 --> 01:34:49,760
Speaker 1: play big, big places because our our record became a

1624
01:34:49,840 --> 01:34:52,479
Speaker 1: huge hit in Japan right after that, and we went

1625
01:34:52,520 --> 01:34:55,880
Speaker 1: over to Japan and it was like total mania there.

1626
01:34:56,160 --> 01:34:58,400
Speaker 1: It was like the beat It was not unlike not

1627
01:34:58,600 --> 01:35:01,439
Speaker 1: quite the Beatles, but it was a lot of fan

1628
01:35:01,960 --> 01:35:06,960
Speaker 1: uh fan boys and fan girls over there that just

1629
01:35:07,479 --> 01:35:10,879
Speaker 1: followed total from from gig the gig on the trains

1630
01:35:11,479 --> 01:35:15,840
Speaker 1: and uh sold out concerts and it was really great

1631
01:35:15,880 --> 01:35:18,360
Speaker 1: for our egos and for our to validate our band,

1632
01:35:19,080 --> 01:35:23,599
Speaker 1: and uh Uh a little by little our records started.

1633
01:35:24,320 --> 01:35:29,120
Speaker 1: Records helped enormously at that time. You gain recognition if

1634
01:35:29,160 --> 01:35:31,160
Speaker 1: you had to hit record. There was a guy named

1635
01:35:31,200 --> 01:35:36,080
Speaker 1: big Uh big Al in UH Amsterdam that broke hold

1636
01:35:36,120 --> 01:35:38,960
Speaker 1: the line there, which is why we ended up being

1637
01:35:39,000 --> 01:35:41,720
Speaker 1: so huge in Europe as everybody heard the station in

1638
01:35:41,840 --> 01:35:45,960
Speaker 1: Amsterdam and UH we just played totally, just played the

1639
01:35:46,080 --> 01:35:49,920
Speaker 1: Zygodom in Amsterdam and it sold out the seventeen thousand people.

1640
01:35:50,360 --> 01:35:54,280
Speaker 1: So it shows you how our success story started with

1641
01:35:54,439 --> 01:35:57,920
Speaker 1: just a radio play at that time and knowing the DJ.

1642
01:35:58,600 --> 01:36:00,880
Speaker 1: You know, back in that day, swing by knowing if

1643
01:36:00,920 --> 01:36:04,080
Speaker 1: you knew the DJ or had a relationship with our managers.

1644
01:36:04,520 --> 01:36:08,360
Speaker 1: Had a had a relationship with a guy named Steve

1645
01:36:08,439 --> 01:36:13,280
Speaker 1: West at kJ R in Seattle, and he broke all

1646
01:36:13,360 --> 01:36:16,760
Speaker 1: the line in the United States and all the other registers,

1647
01:36:16,800 --> 01:36:18,960
Speaker 1: all the other stations went on it because I think

1648
01:36:19,000 --> 01:36:21,960
Speaker 1: they're called p ones or something like that, Regio stations

1649
01:36:22,400 --> 01:36:27,479
Speaker 1: and popular market right. So that's how that's what we

1650
01:36:27,560 --> 01:36:30,679
Speaker 1: were doing, was playing live and uh and getting ready

1651
01:36:30,800 --> 01:36:35,040
Speaker 1: for to make another record, but mainly touring live and

1652
01:36:35,320 --> 01:36:46,160
Speaker 1: uh enjoying being rock stars. You know, you were very

1653
01:36:46,280 --> 01:36:50,360
Speaker 1: experienced guys. Most people who have success like that out

1654
01:36:50,400 --> 01:36:53,000
Speaker 1: of the box end up being ripped off. They're so

1655
01:36:53,080 --> 01:36:55,040
Speaker 1: busy working they don't know what the hell was going on.

1656
01:36:55,600 --> 01:37:00,360
Speaker 1: What happened with you guys? Uh, we're pretty luck when

1657
01:37:00,400 --> 01:37:02,000
Speaker 1: it comes to that stuff. But you had a lot

1658
01:37:02,040 --> 01:37:04,920
Speaker 1: of people watching us, my father and my mom who

1659
01:37:05,000 --> 01:37:08,000
Speaker 1: was and my mom was a corporate bookkeeper. She was

1660
01:37:08,040 --> 01:37:11,080
Speaker 1: always looking at my checks. And because I I had

1661
01:37:11,080 --> 01:37:14,439
Speaker 1: already had a career doing sessions, so uh, and I

1662
01:37:14,560 --> 01:37:17,080
Speaker 1: was I had a publishing. I was already published and

1663
01:37:17,280 --> 01:37:21,640
Speaker 1: was had my own publishing and so uh uh, but

1664
01:37:21,840 --> 01:37:25,400
Speaker 1: they were it was more transparent with uh. My parents

1665
01:37:25,680 --> 01:37:27,840
Speaker 1: had to relate. Uh. We're able to talk to the

1666
01:37:27,920 --> 01:37:31,280
Speaker 1: managers and ask around to see who's honest and who's

1667
01:37:31,360 --> 01:37:35,240
Speaker 1: not as honest. And we found out that our managers

1668
01:37:35,320 --> 01:37:38,960
Speaker 1: were were more honest than all the others out there.

1669
01:37:39,520 --> 01:37:42,200
Speaker 1: I say more honest, you know, because there we put

1670
01:37:42,240 --> 01:37:44,479
Speaker 1: the name manager in front of anybody and they can't

1671
01:37:44,520 --> 01:37:50,360
Speaker 1: be that honest, you know. Uh. But anyway, Uh, we

1672
01:37:50,560 --> 01:37:52,680
Speaker 1: had people looking at the books all the time. You know.

1673
01:37:53,280 --> 01:37:55,920
Speaker 1: We had an accountant to a band had an accountant,

1674
01:37:56,680 --> 01:37:59,680
Speaker 1: the managers had an accountant, and I had my own accountant.

1675
01:38:00,120 --> 01:38:03,200
Speaker 1: So there were three people. What loved watching keeping an

1676
01:38:03,240 --> 01:38:05,479
Speaker 1: eye on everything at the time and making sure we

1677
01:38:05,520 --> 01:38:09,400
Speaker 1: didn't move too fast too quickly, you know. So tell

1678
01:38:09,439 --> 01:38:13,960
Speaker 1: me about making the second record. The second record, we

1679
01:38:14,160 --> 01:38:18,120
Speaker 1: had been playing live to bigger venues, and we had

1680
01:38:18,320 --> 01:38:23,120
Speaker 1: seen that there's bands out there doing stuff that was

1681
01:38:23,200 --> 01:38:28,880
Speaker 1: working specifically for live audiences. Bands like Queen, bands like

1682
01:38:29,000 --> 01:38:35,000
Speaker 1: Jethro Toll, bands like General Giant, bands like Genesis. We're

1683
01:38:35,040 --> 01:38:37,120
Speaker 1: making a noise out there, but they were doing not

1684
01:38:37,320 --> 01:38:41,760
Speaker 1: necessarily hit singles, they were doing great concert music. So

1685
01:38:42,360 --> 01:38:45,240
Speaker 1: we started writing a few things, like the word the

1686
01:38:46,000 --> 01:38:48,720
Speaker 1: next album is called Hydra, which I got from a

1687
01:38:48,920 --> 01:38:54,640
Speaker 1: Leonard Cohen poem called Hydra. Uh and uh, we we

1688
01:38:54,840 --> 01:38:57,400
Speaker 1: kind of start experimenting with that as an opening a

1689
01:38:57,520 --> 01:39:01,439
Speaker 1: show opener, which it did open our show live for

1690
01:39:02,000 --> 01:39:04,560
Speaker 1: a tour, and it ended up being great and we

1691
01:39:04,640 --> 01:39:07,560
Speaker 1: ended up had getting a lot of fulfillment and and

1692
01:39:07,680 --> 01:39:11,280
Speaker 1: crowd pleaser from doing more extended work on that album,

1693
01:39:11,640 --> 01:39:14,880
Speaker 1: and again I had a couple of songs lying around

1694
01:39:14,920 --> 01:39:18,840
Speaker 1: that I had written. Again in the meantime after the

1695
01:39:18,920 --> 01:39:22,080
Speaker 1: first album and the second album, we're still doing sessions

1696
01:39:22,160 --> 01:39:25,439
Speaker 1: all the time. Jeff and Luke are are over with

1697
01:39:25,560 --> 01:39:29,120
Speaker 1: Elton John and France cutting an Elton John record. I'm

1698
01:39:29,160 --> 01:39:32,599
Speaker 1: in the studio doing some keyboard overdubs with Steve Ricaro

1699
01:39:33,280 --> 01:39:37,360
Speaker 1: and so, uh, we're working and I was constantly writing songs,

1700
01:39:37,400 --> 01:39:40,679
Speaker 1: trying to write some new material for the second album,

1701
01:39:41,120 --> 01:39:44,400
Speaker 1: and that's what we ended up with was a couple

1702
01:39:44,479 --> 01:39:47,400
Speaker 1: of uh. There was a step Er Carlo song, and

1703
01:39:47,479 --> 01:39:50,559
Speaker 1: I think I wrote most of the rest of the songs,

1704
01:39:51,080 --> 01:39:54,600
Speaker 1: although I'd have to look at it again. Okay, this

1705
01:39:54,800 --> 01:39:56,680
Speaker 1: is how I really got into that album. I was

1706
01:39:56,760 --> 01:39:59,040
Speaker 1: on a plane and they played ninety nine in the

1707
01:39:59,080 --> 01:40:01,640
Speaker 1: old days when you use to listen to the programming,

1708
01:40:02,280 --> 01:40:05,720
Speaker 1: tell me about nine and why that's the name of

1709
01:40:05,800 --> 01:40:08,680
Speaker 1: the song, and had that come to you. I've just

1710
01:40:08,800 --> 01:40:12,439
Speaker 1: seen a George Lucas movie called t Checks. I think

1711
01:40:12,520 --> 01:40:16,479
Speaker 1: it is one eighty three something like that. Anyway, the

1712
01:40:16,600 --> 01:40:19,519
Speaker 1: premise was everyone in the future. It was about every

1713
01:40:19,800 --> 01:40:25,639
Speaker 1: futuristic a dystopian society where everybody had numbers and not names.

1714
01:40:26,160 --> 01:40:28,880
Speaker 1: So I thought it was really would be clever to

1715
01:40:28,960 --> 01:40:33,680
Speaker 1: write a song about a girl or mate as it

1716
01:40:33,760 --> 01:40:36,080
Speaker 1: may be, that had a number and not a name.

1717
01:40:36,320 --> 01:40:38,680
Speaker 1: And I just picked up ninety nine. It just came

1718
01:40:38,680 --> 01:40:41,160
Speaker 1: out of my mouth. I was just saying, playing the

1719
01:40:41,240 --> 01:40:44,400
Speaker 1: groove to nine, and I went nine and nine. It's

1720
01:40:44,439 --> 01:40:48,040
Speaker 1: been waiting so long, and that's how it happened. And

1721
01:40:48,120 --> 01:40:51,120
Speaker 1: I just finished the song, and uh, like I said,

1722
01:40:51,160 --> 01:40:53,120
Speaker 1: it probably doesn't mean a lot to a lot of people,

1723
01:40:53,200 --> 01:40:55,439
Speaker 1: but I thought it was one of totals better tracks

1724
01:40:55,520 --> 01:40:58,719
Speaker 1: that we cut, and I thought it has extended guitar,

1725
01:40:59,200 --> 01:41:02,040
Speaker 1: has extended guitar and bass solos on the end, which

1726
01:41:02,040 --> 01:41:04,360
Speaker 1: were pretty innovative for that time, and they played all

1727
01:41:04,479 --> 01:41:06,479
Speaker 1: till the very end. It just shows you what a

1728
01:41:06,600 --> 01:41:10,479
Speaker 1: great rhythm section, uh total was is on that record

1729
01:41:10,640 --> 01:41:14,599
Speaker 1: is very indicative. David Hungate, Jeffrey carl and drums, Steve

1730
01:41:14,720 --> 01:41:18,880
Speaker 1: Lucather uh on guitar, and Bobby Kimball didn't sing on

1731
01:41:18,920 --> 01:41:24,080
Speaker 1: that at all, right, and so the album holds together.

1732
01:41:24,840 --> 01:41:29,320
Speaker 1: But nine had some chart impact, but not as much

1733
01:41:29,400 --> 01:41:31,880
Speaker 1: as hold the line. What did you guys think and

1734
01:41:32,000 --> 01:41:35,800
Speaker 1: what did the label think. We thought that we had

1735
01:41:37,760 --> 01:41:41,680
Speaker 1: we were hoping for bigger numbers within but we we

1736
01:41:41,840 --> 01:41:44,559
Speaker 1: saw that it was kind of a minor hit, kind

1737
01:41:44,560 --> 01:41:48,400
Speaker 1: of adult contemporary kind of thing, so uh, you know,

1738
01:41:48,880 --> 01:41:50,800
Speaker 1: we were I think we were so busy trying to

1739
01:41:50,840 --> 01:41:54,879
Speaker 1: get our touring show together that we weren't so interested

1740
01:41:54,960 --> 01:41:58,320
Speaker 1: in singles. We thought we thought maybe all as boys

1741
01:41:58,520 --> 01:42:01,719
Speaker 1: or uh, I forget what else is on their MoMA

1742
01:42:01,800 --> 01:42:04,160
Speaker 1: or something like that. I don't know. I think the

1743
01:42:04,240 --> 01:42:08,840
Speaker 1: record company also once once the album didn't take off,

1744
01:42:09,439 --> 01:42:12,519
Speaker 1: they started losing interest a little bit. And I think

1745
01:42:12,600 --> 01:42:17,360
Speaker 1: maybe though one of the record presidents h Man. They

1746
01:42:17,479 --> 01:42:20,719
Speaker 1: may have changed presidents at that time from Bruce Lundball

1747
01:42:20,920 --> 01:42:24,280
Speaker 1: to another guy, but I remember, uh that has a

1748
01:42:24,400 --> 01:42:27,960
Speaker 1: devastating effect on bands when you're the person that signs

1749
01:42:28,040 --> 01:42:31,120
Speaker 1: you gets replaced by another person because they bring it

1750
01:42:31,120 --> 01:42:33,200
Speaker 1: a whole another team. So I think it was maybe

1751
01:42:33,240 --> 01:42:38,600
Speaker 1: the lack of uh uh the fact that there was

1752
01:42:38,720 --> 01:42:43,560
Speaker 1: no hole the line uh on or Georgie Porgy for

1753
01:42:43,640 --> 01:42:47,560
Speaker 1: that matter, on on the second album, and uh it

1754
01:42:47,760 --> 01:42:50,280
Speaker 1: kind of h we went by the wayside, I think

1755
01:42:50,400 --> 01:42:54,639
Speaker 1: for a little bit, and then the third album comes

1756
01:42:54,680 --> 01:42:59,360
Speaker 1: out and is less commercially successful. What what do you

1757
01:42:59,439 --> 01:43:03,600
Speaker 1: guys think? We're thinking more live show again, this is

1758
01:43:03,680 --> 01:43:08,160
Speaker 1: more We've seen Queen in concert. Uh, we'd heard Queen records,

1759
01:43:08,600 --> 01:43:12,120
Speaker 1: and we even hired Queen's engineer, Jeff Workman to engineer

1760
01:43:12,200 --> 01:43:15,639
Speaker 1: the record, uh because he used to record for Roy

1761
01:43:15,720 --> 01:43:21,080
Speaker 1: Thomas Baker r RTB and uh. Uh so we thought

1762
01:43:21,120 --> 01:43:23,960
Speaker 1: if we sounded like Queen, we'd be we'd we'd beat Queen,

1763
01:43:24,080 --> 01:43:26,719
Speaker 1: you know, kind of our Queen thing. But we still

1764
01:43:26,800 --> 01:43:29,519
Speaker 1: did our own Total stuff and we thought we had

1765
01:43:29,680 --> 01:43:32,400
Speaker 1: it was. It was just a change of one eighty

1766
01:43:32,479 --> 01:43:35,040
Speaker 1: degree change from Total into the big leagues of rock

1767
01:43:35,080 --> 01:43:37,519
Speaker 1: and roll. We thought our sound would be bigger and

1768
01:43:37,680 --> 01:43:41,840
Speaker 1: more like Zeppelin, e more Queenish on record, and it

1769
01:43:41,880 --> 01:43:45,639
Speaker 1: would be driving, driven harder and sound like a big,

1770
01:43:45,880 --> 01:43:48,560
Speaker 1: big rock show, you know. And we were playing with

1771
01:43:48,720 --> 01:43:52,680
Speaker 1: music more geared for live playing, I think than it

1772
01:43:52,880 --> 01:43:56,400
Speaker 1: was for making singles, although we thought there was a

1773
01:43:56,439 --> 01:43:59,920
Speaker 1: few singles on there. But uh, again the record company

1774
01:44:00,120 --> 01:44:03,280
Speaker 1: changed precedents at that time, right right when that album

1775
01:44:03,360 --> 01:44:06,719
Speaker 1: came out, and uh, it had a deaf ear turned

1776
01:44:06,880 --> 01:44:11,839
Speaker 1: turned to it. I think. Okay, so what are your thoughts,

1777
01:44:12,120 --> 01:44:15,480
Speaker 1: the band's thoughts going into Total four, which in retrospect

1778
01:44:15,600 --> 01:44:18,320
Speaker 1: is huge, but you don't know that going in. Yeah,

1779
01:44:18,960 --> 01:44:21,400
Speaker 1: we know that we have one more record. The record company,

1780
01:44:21,479 --> 01:44:23,720
Speaker 1: let's just know we have one more record to do

1781
01:44:23,960 --> 01:44:27,639
Speaker 1: good or that's gonna be it. They thought they wanted

1782
01:44:27,640 --> 01:44:30,599
Speaker 1: to prove that we weren't a one hit wonder, which

1783
01:44:30,720 --> 01:44:32,120
Speaker 1: by the way, we had more than one hit on

1784
01:44:32,160 --> 01:44:35,840
Speaker 1: the on the first album. But we had to prove

1785
01:44:35,920 --> 01:44:38,880
Speaker 1: that we still could make hit singles. Uh for the

1786
01:44:38,960 --> 01:44:41,400
Speaker 1: record label. You know, they were getting tired of these

1787
01:44:41,439 --> 01:44:47,120
Speaker 1: album cuts on Hydra and turn Back. So uh, I

1788
01:44:47,760 --> 01:44:50,439
Speaker 1: decided I wanted to make an album that was so

1789
01:44:50,560 --> 01:44:53,840
Speaker 1: powerful that was the absolute best we could possibly do.

1790
01:44:54,680 --> 01:44:58,080
Speaker 1: And uh so the first song, I started constructing a

1791
01:44:58,200 --> 01:45:02,160
Speaker 1: song that I thought would be idea if UH throw

1792
01:45:02,240 --> 01:45:04,800
Speaker 1: everything that I know into one single to make a

1793
01:45:04,920 --> 01:45:07,439
Speaker 1: hit record, and if that didn't work out, I'd I'd

1794
01:45:07,560 --> 01:45:10,439
Speaker 1: hang up, I'd hang it up. And uh I wrote

1795
01:45:10,520 --> 01:45:14,800
Speaker 1: Rosanna right then and there kind of constructed it from

1796
01:45:14,840 --> 01:45:19,280
Speaker 1: all my all my favorite little devices and riffs and

1797
01:45:19,760 --> 01:45:22,200
Speaker 1: and part of my soul, so part of my heartfelt

1798
01:45:22,920 --> 01:45:28,200
Speaker 1: lyrics and uh uh while ah we did we I

1799
01:45:28,280 --> 01:45:31,200
Speaker 1: got Al Schmidt to engineer it. We called him in

1800
01:45:32,280 --> 01:45:35,599
Speaker 1: who's the greatest engineer in the world at that time

1801
01:45:35,880 --> 01:45:39,559
Speaker 1: and still has the most Grammys of anybody. Girl Al Schmidt.

1802
01:45:39,560 --> 01:45:42,080
Speaker 1: Everybody knows him, and he cut all of our tracks

1803
01:45:42,120 --> 01:45:47,200
Speaker 1: at Sunset Sound and from the big beginning of Rosanna, Uh,

1804
01:45:47,880 --> 01:45:50,960
Speaker 1: we knew that we had something there. We vited the

1805
01:45:51,000 --> 01:45:55,000
Speaker 1: President down who heard the Rosanna and the rough rough mixes,

1806
01:45:55,320 --> 01:45:57,080
Speaker 1: and they loved it and told us to keep working

1807
01:45:57,160 --> 01:45:59,320
Speaker 1: on the record because we were spending a lot of

1808
01:45:59,360 --> 01:46:03,280
Speaker 1: money in studio time doing all the overdubs. At one time,

1809
01:46:03,320 --> 01:46:06,400
Speaker 1: we had all three studios at Sunset Sound working on

1810
01:46:06,479 --> 01:46:09,439
Speaker 1: our record right there, so we knew. We knew Total

1811
01:46:09,520 --> 01:46:12,120
Speaker 1: four was gonna be something special, and we treated it

1812
01:46:12,400 --> 01:46:16,640
Speaker 1: as such. We hired, you know, hired Tim Schmidt came

1813
01:46:16,680 --> 01:46:20,439
Speaker 1: in saying backgrounds, but Joe Percaro played some percussion. We

1814
01:46:20,600 --> 01:46:24,120
Speaker 1: hired James pink how to play trombone on the Rosanna

1815
01:46:24,439 --> 01:46:27,280
Speaker 1: I got. We hired heard a lot of great professionals

1816
01:46:27,560 --> 01:46:30,519
Speaker 1: to work on that album as well as Uh. I

1817
01:46:30,600 --> 01:46:33,519
Speaker 1: think with Miles Stone in the album was when I

1818
01:46:33,600 --> 01:46:37,000
Speaker 1: went to U C L. S O in London. McCartney

1819
01:46:37,040 --> 01:46:39,080
Speaker 1: had just come out with Live and Let Die, and

1820
01:46:39,160 --> 01:46:41,720
Speaker 1: I was so impressed with the orchestra and Live and

1821
01:46:41,800 --> 01:46:44,400
Speaker 1: Let Die that I wanted to write something that showed

1822
01:46:44,439 --> 01:46:47,479
Speaker 1: off the orchestra, which we ended up bright doing Lucather

1823
01:46:47,600 --> 01:46:52,720
Speaker 1: and myself. Uh started work did Afraid of Love, which

1824
01:46:52,800 --> 01:46:55,080
Speaker 1: features the L H L S O on it, And

1825
01:46:55,160 --> 01:46:58,720
Speaker 1: I think that in an impact and powerful was was

1826
01:46:58,800 --> 01:47:03,479
Speaker 1: really powerful. Uh that addition to our sound and uh,

1827
01:47:03,840 --> 01:47:05,800
Speaker 1: I just think there was a lot of more co

1828
01:47:06,000 --> 01:47:08,280
Speaker 1: writing on that album as well. So I think that

1829
01:47:08,400 --> 01:47:12,240
Speaker 1: our our whole uh standard or the bar was raised

1830
01:47:12,320 --> 01:47:17,240
Speaker 1: on that album. Okay, a lot of great tracks on

1831
01:47:17,360 --> 01:47:21,639
Speaker 1: that album. Make believe who says the Crimson Moon doesn't shine?

1832
01:47:22,520 --> 01:47:26,040
Speaker 1: If you remember I wrote that, Yes I do. Don't

1833
01:47:26,080 --> 01:47:28,800
Speaker 1: ask me what it means, but uh, that's just one

1834
01:47:28,840 --> 01:47:30,920
Speaker 1: of my lyrics, you know what I mean? You know,

1835
01:47:32,840 --> 01:47:35,000
Speaker 1: I was, I was. I was in love at the time.

1836
01:47:35,080 --> 01:47:39,599
Speaker 1: I think. You know. The album is gigantic, sells twelve

1837
01:47:39,720 --> 01:47:42,920
Speaker 1: million copies, wins all these Grammys. What was it like

1838
01:47:43,479 --> 01:47:47,560
Speaker 1: being on the inside, Uh what of the Grammys or

1839
01:47:47,760 --> 01:47:49,960
Speaker 1: being on the inside of the time period, Being the

1840
01:47:50,040 --> 01:47:53,000
Speaker 1: inside of the success. Grammys are secondary. It was great

1841
01:47:53,160 --> 01:47:55,760
Speaker 1: because It just validated a lot of stuff that we

1842
01:47:56,439 --> 01:47:59,160
Speaker 1: already thought that we were. We already knew that we

1843
01:47:59,240 --> 01:48:02,960
Speaker 1: were pretty good because we had confidence from doing sessions

1844
01:48:03,320 --> 01:48:05,960
Speaker 1: and from our first album, so we already knew that

1845
01:48:06,960 --> 01:48:11,920
Speaker 1: kind of Well, this helped validate our band and gave

1846
01:48:12,000 --> 01:48:15,400
Speaker 1: us confidences. Mainly, we gained a whole lot of confidence

1847
01:48:15,960 --> 01:48:19,960
Speaker 1: and uh uh you know, we had our fifteen seconds

1848
01:48:20,080 --> 01:48:25,719
Speaker 1: of uh fame there and everybody was interviewing us. Everybody

1849
01:48:25,800 --> 01:48:28,760
Speaker 1: wanted to know Toto, and uh, we just kind of

1850
01:48:28,840 --> 01:48:32,320
Speaker 1: took the stride. But we've been around success in stars before,

1851
01:48:32,760 --> 01:48:34,400
Speaker 1: so we didn't let it go to our heads because

1852
01:48:34,439 --> 01:48:36,840
Speaker 1: we had all the other producers and all the other

1853
01:48:36,920 --> 01:48:40,120
Speaker 1: our peers and colleagues were there to keep us in line.

1854
01:48:40,320 --> 01:48:45,040
Speaker 1: You know. So the next album, how does Bobby Kim

1855
01:48:45,120 --> 01:48:51,479
Speaker 1: Believe and Frugie Frederickson come in? Okay, Um, I'm not

1856
01:48:51,560 --> 01:48:56,400
Speaker 1: gonna ponder this, uh stay dwell on this subject too long.

1857
01:48:56,479 --> 01:48:59,200
Speaker 1: But Bobby ended up being one of those persons that

1858
01:48:59,280 --> 01:49:02,200
Speaker 1: couldn't handle success as well as the rest of us

1859
01:49:02,240 --> 01:49:06,760
Speaker 1: good and uh it got out of hand uh to

1860
01:49:06,880 --> 01:49:09,920
Speaker 1: where uh we were trying to record and he was

1861
01:49:10,320 --> 01:49:14,320
Speaker 1: stopped showing up for vocals. So Jeff just put his

1862
01:49:14,360 --> 01:49:17,280
Speaker 1: foot down and said, we've got to get someone here immediately,

1863
01:49:17,439 --> 01:49:19,200
Speaker 1: because we had a we had a half of an

1864
01:49:19,200 --> 01:49:23,400
Speaker 1: album written that we had recorded with him, was Those Isolation,

1865
01:49:23,800 --> 01:49:27,920
Speaker 1: And Jeff said, heard this singer, Fergie Frederickson from this

1866
01:49:28,520 --> 01:49:33,320
Speaker 1: Louisiana band, and at that moment, it seemed just like

1867
01:49:33,400 --> 01:49:37,040
Speaker 1: a beam of light, uh, a guy who could sing

1868
01:49:37,200 --> 01:49:41,040
Speaker 1: up high, a guy who looked good, who could uh

1869
01:49:41,560 --> 01:49:45,280
Speaker 1: perform good on stage. And we we thought total thought

1870
01:49:46,479 --> 01:49:48,559
Speaker 1: our rhythm section. We really thought we had the magic,

1871
01:49:48,720 --> 01:49:51,400
Speaker 1: the mightas touch with singers because we had worked with

1872
01:49:51,479 --> 01:49:55,040
Speaker 1: Leo Sayer, Boss Scaggs, just about every singer out there,

1873
01:49:55,560 --> 01:49:58,080
Speaker 1: and we had been made hit records with people. So

1874
01:49:58,200 --> 01:50:00,920
Speaker 1: we thought, it's just another sing We'll bring this singer

1875
01:50:00,960 --> 01:50:03,920
Speaker 1: in and we'll mold him into being that that front

1876
01:50:04,000 --> 01:50:07,400
Speaker 1: man that you need so badly for your identity. Now,

1877
01:50:07,479 --> 01:50:10,360
Speaker 1: in retrospect, I wish I'd gone in a different direction

1878
01:50:10,880 --> 01:50:14,240
Speaker 1: and we and we'd had still uh you know, made

1879
01:50:14,439 --> 01:50:18,160
Speaker 1: uh some course corrections back there and kept bobbying the band.

1880
01:50:18,720 --> 01:50:21,880
Speaker 1: But it's just what didn't work out that way. Well,

1881
01:50:21,960 --> 01:50:24,840
Speaker 1: needless to say, you have this gigantic album and it's

1882
01:50:24,880 --> 01:50:30,160
Speaker 1: not commercially successful. How disheartening was that? It was very disheartening.

1883
01:50:30,479 --> 01:50:33,080
Speaker 1: First of all, the they shipped a whole lot of records,

1884
01:50:33,360 --> 01:50:36,679
Speaker 1: and a lot of records were rack jobbers. Got stuck

1885
01:50:36,720 --> 01:50:39,600
Speaker 1: with their records, and they weren't happy about that. So

1886
01:50:39,760 --> 01:50:42,000
Speaker 1: we got a bad rap on the fact that the

1887
01:50:42,080 --> 01:50:46,240
Speaker 1: album was overhyped and this wasn't the same singer, and uh,

1888
01:50:46,320 --> 01:50:49,400
Speaker 1: it's just kind of uh uh boomeranged on us a

1889
01:50:49,439 --> 01:50:53,960
Speaker 1: little bit there. Now, if you talk to Steve, he

1890
01:50:55,160 --> 01:50:59,559
Speaker 1: will talk about the backlash people talking shit about Toto.

1891
01:51:00,400 --> 01:51:04,040
Speaker 1: Did you feel the same way? Um, I got a

1892
01:51:04,080 --> 01:51:07,240
Speaker 1: little thicker skin than Steve does. But yeah, you know,

1893
01:51:07,360 --> 01:51:11,080
Speaker 1: when every time anybody starts picking apart lyrics are picking

1894
01:51:11,160 --> 01:51:14,400
Speaker 1: up art songs, I you know, I have feelings the

1895
01:51:14,479 --> 01:51:16,519
Speaker 1: same as the other guy, but I I've learned to

1896
01:51:16,800 --> 01:51:18,760
Speaker 1: let him roll off my back a little bit more.

1897
01:51:19,200 --> 01:51:22,280
Speaker 1: But but there's certain times when we were a band

1898
01:51:22,720 --> 01:51:27,160
Speaker 1: where we all jointly we're reading bad press for us

1899
01:51:27,520 --> 01:51:31,080
Speaker 1: and getting a piste off about it, you know, because

1900
01:51:31,120 --> 01:51:33,920
Speaker 1: we do something we thought would be great in Rolling

1901
01:51:34,000 --> 01:51:37,200
Speaker 1: Stone magazine. We were doing great work with other artists,

1902
01:51:37,600 --> 01:51:40,760
Speaker 1: and every time they just find a total member in

1903
01:51:41,960 --> 01:51:44,400
Speaker 1: on the album, they would say something bad about the

1904
01:51:45,080 --> 01:51:48,040
Speaker 1: total member, you know what I mean. So everywhere we

1905
01:51:48,120 --> 01:51:51,160
Speaker 1: were getting bad pressed. You know, So, how do you

1906
01:51:51,320 --> 01:51:56,439
Speaker 1: kick Freddie Frederick Fergie Frederickson out of the band. You're

1907
01:51:56,479 --> 01:52:03,720
Speaker 1: going deep on me. Uh again, when you have personnel

1908
01:52:04,200 --> 01:52:07,679
Speaker 1: that you go through, how can I say this? There's

1909
01:52:07,880 --> 01:52:11,360
Speaker 1: like a like a team that puts in a player

1910
01:52:12,000 --> 01:52:13,760
Speaker 1: and they don't work out and you have to bring

1911
01:52:13,840 --> 01:52:16,479
Speaker 1: in a new player. We were having to. We were

1912
01:52:16,640 --> 01:52:20,720
Speaker 1: treating the lead singer positions just like it was a variable,

1913
01:52:20,760 --> 01:52:23,920
Speaker 1: a concert spot that we could fill with somebody else

1914
01:52:24,280 --> 01:52:27,760
Speaker 1: and we could replace that person. Uh. Fergie just it

1915
01:52:27,880 --> 01:52:29,880
Speaker 1: wasn't a fit, That's all I can tell you. It

1916
01:52:30,000 --> 01:52:33,519
Speaker 1: just it just wasn't quite a fit. And people's reaction

1917
01:52:33,680 --> 01:52:38,200
Speaker 1: to him wasn't that good. And our record sales um

1918
01:52:39,000 --> 01:52:41,960
Speaker 1: record company again we had to tell the president that

1919
01:52:42,160 --> 01:52:46,000
Speaker 1: wasn't running, wasn't in our pocket as far as the

1920
01:52:46,080 --> 01:52:51,120
Speaker 1: records go, and so uh uh uh we weren't getting

1921
01:52:51,200 --> 01:52:54,559
Speaker 1: much help from the label because of a single nut

1922
01:52:54,600 --> 01:52:57,679
Speaker 1: popping off there which we thought they chose the wrong single.

1923
01:52:58,200 --> 01:53:01,840
Speaker 1: But uh uh so that helped. Uh. We just started

1924
01:53:01,880 --> 01:53:04,519
Speaker 1: looking around, and Steve Lucather started singing more and more

1925
01:53:05,240 --> 01:53:10,960
Speaker 1: and uh, uh we had started having background singers singing

1926
01:53:11,400 --> 01:53:14,679
Speaker 1: some lead vocals and stuff to replace our lead vocalist.

1927
01:53:14,760 --> 01:53:18,080
Speaker 1: And uh, he just kind of evolved out of the band.

1928
01:53:19,240 --> 01:53:22,880
Speaker 1: And why did hung Gate leave? Hung Gate just didn't

1929
01:53:22,920 --> 01:53:24,599
Speaker 1: like going on the road home. Gate was a home

1930
01:53:25,240 --> 01:53:28,200
Speaker 1: home body and he didn't like like touring that much.

1931
01:53:28,240 --> 01:53:31,280
Speaker 1: He had been touring with Sunny and Share ever since

1932
01:53:31,520 --> 01:53:35,400
Speaker 1: he was in college. And uh, when Toto kept wanting

1933
01:53:35,439 --> 01:53:40,360
Speaker 1: to tour, Uh, Toto originally was gonna make records, tour

1934
01:53:40,400 --> 01:53:42,719
Speaker 1: a little bit, but still do sessions all the time.

1935
01:53:43,200 --> 01:53:45,080
Speaker 1: You know. It was kind of like our our side

1936
01:53:45,120 --> 01:53:47,439
Speaker 1: gig Toto was gonna be until it became our full

1937
01:53:47,520 --> 01:53:51,519
Speaker 1: time job, you know. And uh, he just wanted to

1938
01:53:51,520 --> 01:53:57,479
Speaker 1: stay home. Okay, how does Joseph Williams get in the band? Joseph?

1939
01:53:57,840 --> 01:54:01,639
Speaker 1: Good question. Joseph knew Lucather back when they were fourteen

1940
01:54:01,720 --> 01:54:06,160
Speaker 1: years old. Uh, from high school, I think, And uh,

1941
01:54:07,280 --> 01:54:11,000
Speaker 1: Jeff was aware of his talent and I was aware,

1942
01:54:11,120 --> 01:54:17,680
Speaker 1: and I became aware of Joseph on twilight Zone, the

1943
01:54:17,760 --> 01:54:22,439
Speaker 1: movie the Spielberg produced which Joe Joe they had called

1944
01:54:22,479 --> 01:54:26,240
Speaker 1: in Joe to do a demo vocal for the song

1945
01:54:26,400 --> 01:54:29,679
Speaker 1: that he wrote for the opening sequence in Twilight Zone

1946
01:54:29,760 --> 01:54:32,520
Speaker 1: the movie. So I went down to where they were

1947
01:54:32,560 --> 01:54:35,560
Speaker 1: recording it because I played on the track, and they said,

1948
01:54:35,600 --> 01:54:38,200
Speaker 1: well who should we get to sing? And Joseph was

1949
01:54:38,240 --> 01:54:41,640
Speaker 1: standing there and he sounded amazing on the vocal. I said, well,

1950
01:54:41,800 --> 01:54:44,200
Speaker 1: you have your singeries right here, get him to sing.

1951
01:54:44,320 --> 01:54:46,800
Speaker 1: So I had heard him sing. But then when we

1952
01:54:46,880 --> 01:54:49,880
Speaker 1: were looking for another sing we're looking for this is

1953
01:54:49,960 --> 01:54:53,880
Speaker 1: just after Isolation, We're looking for another singer, and we

1954
01:54:54,040 --> 01:54:57,440
Speaker 1: tried out some singers, but then we jammed with Joseph

1955
01:54:57,640 --> 01:55:00,760
Speaker 1: in a in a rehearsal hall, and Joseph so fast

1956
01:55:01,160 --> 01:55:03,800
Speaker 1: and had such good pitch and it was so hip

1957
01:55:04,080 --> 01:55:06,880
Speaker 1: that it was just undeniable that he should be the singer,

1958
01:55:06,880 --> 01:55:10,240
Speaker 1: our singer, because he was. He just he clicked. It

1959
01:55:10,360 --> 01:55:14,280
Speaker 1: was a fit. That album is my favorite Toto album.

1960
01:55:14,880 --> 01:55:18,360
Speaker 1: Certainly had a hit with I'll Be Over You. Do

1961
01:55:18,440 --> 01:55:22,200
Speaker 1: you feel like the engine was running on high test again?

1962
01:55:22,360 --> 01:55:25,560
Speaker 1: What was it like being on the absolutely absolutely when

1963
01:55:25,600 --> 01:55:29,000
Speaker 1: Lucather had I'll be over You? Uh and Steve Is

1964
01:55:29,560 --> 01:55:32,960
Speaker 1: his songs are like my favorite songs there I think

1965
01:55:33,000 --> 01:55:36,800
Speaker 1: they're the best written, the most well written songs in

1966
01:55:36,920 --> 01:55:39,360
Speaker 1: our catalog, which is Won't Hold You Back and I'll

1967
01:55:39,400 --> 01:55:42,240
Speaker 1: be over You. That comes from me. Who's you have

1968
01:55:42,440 --> 01:55:45,600
Speaker 1: yet as yet to write a love ballad? Okay, Well,

1969
01:55:45,640 --> 01:55:49,000
Speaker 1: the funny thing is those are such sensitive songs, and

1970
01:55:49,600 --> 01:55:52,960
Speaker 1: he really is a sensitive guy, but he presents so differently.

1971
01:55:53,640 --> 01:55:56,960
Speaker 1: He certainly does. That's the He's a real paradox, you know.

1972
01:55:57,600 --> 01:56:02,600
Speaker 1: And uh, uh, Luca, there will I'll be over you.

1973
01:56:02,880 --> 01:56:05,400
Speaker 1: We brought in Mike McDonald to sing backgrounds and I'll

1974
01:56:05,440 --> 01:56:07,960
Speaker 1: be over you, and again we had an album budget

1975
01:56:08,080 --> 01:56:10,920
Speaker 1: to do videos. That's when videos are really big. We

1976
01:56:11,000 --> 01:56:15,400
Speaker 1: did a video for that and uh uh again I thought,

1977
01:56:15,480 --> 01:56:17,760
Speaker 1: I thought that, uh, it's not the same without your

1978
01:56:17,800 --> 01:56:20,200
Speaker 1: love was gonna be a smash hit and it didn't be.

1979
01:56:20,840 --> 01:56:23,520
Speaker 1: Wasn't a hit, you know, same way Africa. No one

1980
01:56:23,600 --> 01:56:25,680
Speaker 1: thought Africa was gonna be a hit, but it became

1981
01:56:25,720 --> 01:56:30,640
Speaker 1: a hit. So odd things happen. Sometimes magic just happens

1982
01:56:30,720 --> 01:56:32,680
Speaker 1: out of nowhere, you know what I mean. But back

1983
01:56:32,760 --> 01:56:35,800
Speaker 1: to the alb over you, Uh, Steve started coming along

1984
01:56:36,280 --> 01:56:40,320
Speaker 1: singing more, and uh that was a really good sign

1985
01:56:40,400 --> 01:56:42,800
Speaker 1: of our being able to say, well, we still got

1986
01:56:42,880 --> 01:56:46,600
Speaker 1: the core guys. We still have David Page who sang

1987
01:56:46,640 --> 01:56:48,880
Speaker 1: on Africa, and we have Steve Lucather that sang on

1988
01:56:49,080 --> 01:56:54,680
Speaker 1: I won't hold you back. Okay, you kick Williams out

1989
01:56:54,720 --> 01:57:00,520
Speaker 1: of the band, How does that happen? Uh, I'm gonna

1990
01:57:00,560 --> 01:57:04,520
Speaker 1: love move along faster. This just some of our road habits.

1991
01:57:04,720 --> 01:57:08,440
Speaker 1: Just people weren't taking the care of themselves. I wasn't

1992
01:57:08,480 --> 01:57:11,600
Speaker 1: taking care of myself. Joe wasn't. The road is very

1993
01:57:11,680 --> 01:57:14,560
Speaker 1: hard and uh, it's hard enough when you have to

1994
01:57:14,640 --> 01:57:17,760
Speaker 1: go out and wine and dying. Uh. Promoters and uh

1995
01:57:18,160 --> 01:57:22,960
Speaker 1: and uh have different managers after each show, and there's

1996
01:57:22,960 --> 01:57:25,200
Speaker 1: a lot of drinking going on, a lot of uh

1997
01:57:25,440 --> 01:57:30,120
Speaker 1: this going on, um Joe uh uh, it just didn't

1998
01:57:30,120 --> 01:57:33,400
Speaker 1: become a fit uh after that, and we had to

1999
01:57:33,440 --> 01:57:36,320
Speaker 1: make a change. And I'm just gonna make a left

2000
01:57:36,360 --> 01:57:38,440
Speaker 1: turn right here and move on and put that into

2001
01:57:38,440 --> 01:57:40,720
Speaker 1: a rear view mirror. Okay, But he does sing on

2002
01:57:40,880 --> 01:57:44,400
Speaker 1: the seventh one, which you have a hit again. So

2003
01:57:44,640 --> 01:57:47,800
Speaker 1: what's the vibe in the band? Then? Vibe is very good,

2004
01:57:48,000 --> 01:57:53,040
Speaker 1: very positive. Joe's doing great. Uh uh. He sang on

2005
01:57:53,120 --> 01:57:58,920
Speaker 1: that whole record and uh, um, the Vibe. On the

2006
01:57:59,040 --> 01:58:01,600
Speaker 1: seventh one, you and I had co co wrote a

2007
01:58:01,680 --> 01:58:05,160
Speaker 1: song called Pamela, which became a believe it or not,

2008
01:58:05,280 --> 01:58:07,800
Speaker 1: a very big record. It was it was destined to

2009
01:58:07,840 --> 01:58:11,000
Speaker 1: be number top ten and it was headed it was

2010
01:58:11,160 --> 01:58:15,080
Speaker 1: the top thirty with a bullet and again CBS closed

2011
01:58:15,120 --> 01:58:19,240
Speaker 1: their doors Sony and fired the president at the time,

2012
01:58:19,800 --> 01:58:22,560
Speaker 1: and they dropped the Springsteen record, which was number fifteen

2013
01:58:22,600 --> 01:58:25,400
Speaker 1: with a bullet that fell off the charts, and our record,

2014
01:58:25,480 --> 01:58:28,160
Speaker 1: which was top thirty, which is called Pamela. We had

2015
01:58:28,200 --> 01:58:31,040
Speaker 1: every station in the country except a big station in

2016
01:58:31,160 --> 01:58:33,200
Speaker 1: New York that we needed, and it would have been

2017
01:58:33,240 --> 01:58:37,520
Speaker 1: top ten. But anyway, back to Joseph, him and I

2018
01:58:37,680 --> 01:58:41,280
Speaker 1: wrote a Pamela together and that kind of uh uh,

2019
01:58:42,920 --> 01:58:46,800
Speaker 1: blew some wind back into our sales. Okay, then it

2020
01:58:47,120 --> 01:58:51,040
Speaker 1: ends with Sony. Why is it end with Sony? I

2021
01:58:51,200 --> 01:58:56,560
Speaker 1: think just there lack of interest, lack of participation with us.

2022
01:58:57,320 --> 01:58:59,160
Speaker 1: You know, it's hard to it's hard to say what

2023
01:58:59,360 --> 01:59:02,000
Speaker 1: exactly put your finger on it. You know. I think

2024
01:59:02,040 --> 01:59:04,280
Speaker 1: if you're not the flavor of the month and you're

2025
01:59:04,480 --> 01:59:07,560
Speaker 1: in the team that signs you, isn't there. I think

2026
01:59:07,600 --> 01:59:09,680
Speaker 1: that you don't have the same kind of support that

2027
01:59:09,840 --> 01:59:12,360
Speaker 1: you do when you have like you know, look at

2028
01:59:12,440 --> 01:59:15,240
Speaker 1: Moe Austin, how long he was at Warner Brothers. Look

2029
01:59:15,280 --> 01:59:17,640
Speaker 1: at her Aboutpert with a and m how long these

2030
01:59:17,680 --> 01:59:20,040
Speaker 1: guys and they with sign these acts and they nurture

2031
01:59:20,120 --> 01:59:22,240
Speaker 1: them and they believe in them. You know where other

2032
01:59:22,360 --> 01:59:27,600
Speaker 1: companies uh uh they change presidents and they change uh

2033
01:59:28,200 --> 01:59:32,800
Speaker 1: support teams. So uh uh it's hard to say, uh

2034
01:59:33,000 --> 01:59:35,960
Speaker 1: what exactly why we got We kept being on Legacy,

2035
01:59:36,120 --> 01:59:39,240
Speaker 1: which is a subsidiary of Sony, because we were making

2036
01:59:39,320 --> 01:59:42,560
Speaker 1: smaller out we were making we had lesser of a budget,

2037
01:59:42,920 --> 01:59:46,720
Speaker 1: and we were uh starting to record in our home

2038
01:59:46,800 --> 01:59:50,760
Speaker 1: studios a little bit more. You know. So how do

2039
01:59:50,920 --> 01:59:54,640
Speaker 1: you feel? Do you you're not gonna have another hit single?

2040
01:59:54,760 --> 01:59:58,640
Speaker 1: Do you realize that? What's you know, what's the vibe? Well,

2041
01:59:58,720 --> 02:00:02,920
Speaker 1: this is what I do. I'm gonna continue to do it. Yeah,

2042
02:00:03,000 --> 02:00:04,640
Speaker 1: that's so that's the vibe. We're not going to rely

2043
02:00:04,760 --> 02:00:08,400
Speaker 1: on our singles. We always feel we have that uh

2044
02:00:08,800 --> 02:00:12,040
Speaker 1: plenty of singles left, but we're not intentionally writing like

2045
02:00:12,400 --> 02:00:16,000
Speaker 1: that big hit single. Uh. We were trying to be

2046
02:00:16,080 --> 02:00:19,040
Speaker 1: more of a rock band at that time and be

2047
02:00:19,160 --> 02:00:25,680
Speaker 1: a live, a big live event band. You know, So

2048
02:00:26,640 --> 02:00:30,440
Speaker 1: after the hits, after the Columbia Days, are you are

2049
02:00:30,480 --> 02:00:33,440
Speaker 1: you basically in Toto and that's your career or do

2050
02:00:33,520 --> 02:00:37,360
Speaker 1: you go back to doing sessions or I don't think

2051
02:00:37,400 --> 02:00:40,960
Speaker 1: the sessions of every really stopped, but yes, everybody went

2052
02:00:41,000 --> 02:00:43,920
Speaker 1: back to sessions what there were of them. I think

2053
02:00:44,000 --> 02:00:48,800
Speaker 1: that that around that time, Um, after we did Kingdom

2054
02:00:48,880 --> 02:00:51,480
Speaker 1: of Desire, because that was with Jeff and and Bob

2055
02:00:51,560 --> 02:00:55,720
Speaker 1: clair Mountain, we eventually got did uh Through the Looking Glass,

2056
02:00:55,880 --> 02:01:00,680
Speaker 1: Through the Through the Looking Mirror anyway. Uh, it was

2057
02:01:00,760 --> 02:01:03,480
Speaker 1: a total album where we did all cover songs where

2058
02:01:03,520 --> 02:01:05,400
Speaker 1: we weren't on any label at all. We just did

2059
02:01:05,480 --> 02:01:10,040
Speaker 1: it ourselves and did it uh at Simon Phillips House,

2060
02:01:10,600 --> 02:01:14,120
Speaker 1: recording the whole thing, and uh it was amazing, and

2061
02:01:14,400 --> 02:01:17,560
Speaker 1: uh that's we kind of just chummed around and uh

2062
02:01:18,080 --> 02:01:20,960
Speaker 1: uh did the record dates and kept working on our

2063
02:01:21,240 --> 02:01:23,840
Speaker 1: our albums. Meanwhile, I think Luke was working on solo

2064
02:01:23,920 --> 02:01:27,360
Speaker 1: records in between that. I think I have my chronology right.

2065
02:01:27,720 --> 02:01:31,560
Speaker 1: Probably not. Lucather has a steel trap memory and he

2066
02:01:31,680 --> 02:01:35,760
Speaker 1: can recall any date, any concert, any day. It's amazing.

2067
02:01:35,800 --> 02:01:39,200
Speaker 1: I'm an exact opposite. Uh so, Uh I hope that

2068
02:01:39,240 --> 02:01:42,320
Speaker 1: answers your question. Yeah, and how does Bobby Kimball get

2069
02:01:42,400 --> 02:01:46,720
Speaker 1: back in the band? Huh? Well, he kind of got

2070
02:01:46,840 --> 02:01:50,200
Speaker 1: his act together and everybody had heard that he was

2071
02:01:50,280 --> 02:01:53,320
Speaker 1: doing well and cleaned up, and everybody was dying to

2072
02:01:53,400 --> 02:01:56,200
Speaker 1: get here Kimball sing back with the band. So we

2073
02:01:56,320 --> 02:01:58,640
Speaker 1: were like, well, if he's together, if he's in shape

2074
02:01:58,680 --> 02:02:02,640
Speaker 1: and physically and hew theme mentally, mentally and in into it,

2075
02:02:03,040 --> 02:02:05,560
Speaker 1: we thought we'd give it another shot. And how did

2076
02:02:05,640 --> 02:02:07,920
Speaker 1: it end with him again? And then Joseph Williams come

2077
02:02:07,960 --> 02:02:14,680
Speaker 1: back again? Boy, this says you're gonna be a broken

2078
02:02:14,720 --> 02:02:18,840
Speaker 1: record on that. Huh. Now, I'm just kidding. Um uh,

2079
02:02:19,440 --> 02:02:28,000
Speaker 1: let's see Bobby uh again. Uh, I'm I'm not really sure.

2080
02:02:28,720 --> 02:02:31,520
Speaker 1: It just was kind of falling out I think personality wise,

2081
02:02:31,880 --> 02:02:35,080
Speaker 1: and it was never really a fit with Bobby in

2082
02:02:35,200 --> 02:02:37,680
Speaker 1: the first place. I mean, because we all used to

2083
02:02:37,720 --> 02:02:40,880
Speaker 1: hang out in high school. Bobby was older than we were, okay,

2084
02:02:41,280 --> 02:02:44,400
Speaker 1: so we weren't. He kind of kept to himself and

2085
02:02:44,520 --> 02:02:49,240
Speaker 1: we kind of all chummed around together from high school days. So, uh,

2086
02:02:49,560 --> 02:02:52,560
Speaker 1: I think it was just chumming around and getting going.

2087
02:02:52,720 --> 02:02:56,000
Speaker 1: You know, we're this isn't he's not working out live

2088
02:02:56,240 --> 02:02:59,000
Speaker 1: because you start falling back into some of the old

2089
02:02:59,600 --> 02:03:03,800
Speaker 1: UH problems and habits UH which prevent you from going

2090
02:03:03,880 --> 02:03:08,160
Speaker 1: on the road um and performing every night, you know

2091
02:03:08,240 --> 02:03:10,560
Speaker 1: what I mean, and taking care of your voice and

2092
02:03:10,680 --> 02:03:13,000
Speaker 1: doing all this stuff. And that's when we realized that

2093
02:03:13,080 --> 02:03:17,520
Speaker 1: we needed a singer that knew us but could could

2094
02:03:18,480 --> 02:03:20,880
Speaker 1: go on the road because the physical aspects of going

2095
02:03:20,920 --> 02:03:25,200
Speaker 1: on the road are are terribly hard, you know, to

2096
02:03:25,440 --> 02:03:31,520
Speaker 1: travel and bus plains easier. Okay. The music business, meanwhile,

2097
02:03:31,680 --> 02:03:36,480
Speaker 1: starts to change, Rock starts to fade, hip hop comes in,

2098
02:03:36,800 --> 02:03:42,320
Speaker 1: the napster comes in, and today everything's blown apart. So

2099
02:03:42,480 --> 02:03:44,960
Speaker 1: where do you see yourself in the landscape or do

2100
02:03:45,040 --> 02:03:47,120
Speaker 1: you just feel I'm separate from the landscape and I

2101
02:03:47,200 --> 02:03:50,920
Speaker 1: do what I do a little bit of both. I

2102
02:03:51,080 --> 02:03:54,480
Speaker 1: feel ingrained in the landscape, musical landscape. I feel part

2103
02:03:54,520 --> 02:03:58,960
Speaker 1: of it for the last forty years, and uh uh,

2104
02:03:59,680 --> 02:04:03,120
Speaker 1: I I roll with the punches. You know, music is funny.

2105
02:04:03,240 --> 02:04:06,200
Speaker 1: Everybody in the band has their own opinion about the

2106
02:04:06,560 --> 02:04:10,240
Speaker 1: direction music takes. You know. I I opened my arms

2107
02:04:10,320 --> 02:04:13,720
Speaker 1: to wrap rap music when it came around, not the

2108
02:04:13,800 --> 02:04:16,760
Speaker 1: original stuff, but when they started covering some of my

2109
02:04:16,960 --> 02:04:20,280
Speaker 1: songs and and and cutting and pasting them and mashing

2110
02:04:20,360 --> 02:04:23,440
Speaker 1: them up. I was like more way into it, you know,

2111
02:04:23,760 --> 02:04:26,920
Speaker 1: just like I always took the Quincy Jones attitude, which

2112
02:04:26,960 --> 02:04:29,520
Speaker 1: is the more of the merrier, and and music has

2113
02:04:29,560 --> 02:04:33,040
Speaker 1: to move on, you know. So Uh, basically we're a

2114
02:04:33,080 --> 02:04:35,880
Speaker 1: half rock and roll and half of it. Half of

2115
02:04:36,000 --> 02:04:38,440
Speaker 1: us wanted to move on a little bit with hip hop.

2116
02:04:38,640 --> 02:04:42,080
Speaker 1: But again back in the talk about hip hop, Waiting

2117
02:04:42,120 --> 02:04:44,040
Speaker 1: for Your Love was the song on the Total four

2118
02:04:44,160 --> 02:04:46,640
Speaker 1: record that was like one of the first hip hop

2119
02:04:46,760 --> 02:04:49,400
Speaker 1: songs as far as I'm concerned. In the band was

2120
02:04:49,480 --> 02:04:53,360
Speaker 1: concerned too, so we all, well we understood it, why

2121
02:04:53,440 --> 02:04:56,160
Speaker 1: people were digging it, and and uh one of the

2122
02:04:56,480 --> 02:05:00,360
Speaker 1: the uh classic songs that came out and showed showed

2123
02:05:00,400 --> 02:05:03,640
Speaker 1: us all what we should be doing with rap was Aerosmith,

2124
02:05:03,880 --> 02:05:07,280
Speaker 1: who did Walk This Way with the run DMC. There

2125
02:05:07,480 --> 02:05:09,480
Speaker 1: there was the there was the guiding light right there.

2126
02:05:09,760 --> 02:05:13,120
Speaker 1: That's how rock and rollers should treat rap music and rappers,

2127
02:05:13,200 --> 02:05:17,800
Speaker 1: you know. So in any event, Uh, I've tried to

2128
02:05:17,960 --> 02:05:20,080
Speaker 1: uh you know a lot of people have covered uh

2129
02:05:20,760 --> 02:05:25,240
Speaker 1: Georgie Porgy and Africa and stuff. So I've opened my

2130
02:05:25,680 --> 02:05:29,760
Speaker 1: my heart to uh wrapped my arms around uh people

2131
02:05:29,840 --> 02:05:33,600
Speaker 1: mashing up records of mine. And eventually Lucather got into

2132
02:05:33,680 --> 02:05:36,480
Speaker 1: it too when they started doing his uh making disco

2133
02:05:36,600 --> 02:05:39,800
Speaker 1: mixes of his songs. So uh, a little by little,

2134
02:05:40,160 --> 02:05:43,120
Speaker 1: uh you started the the old horses started learning new tricks.

2135
02:05:43,960 --> 02:05:47,120
Speaker 1: And did people reach out and license or did you

2136
02:05:47,200 --> 02:05:51,080
Speaker 1: have to find out people who ripped off your records? Uh?

2137
02:05:51,400 --> 02:05:53,760
Speaker 1: There were people that would you would think I would

2138
02:05:53,920 --> 02:05:56,920
Speaker 1: never call it ripping up people without permission, without sync

2139
02:05:57,120 --> 02:06:00,560
Speaker 1: permission had performed our records. But all we would do

2140
02:06:00,720 --> 02:06:03,360
Speaker 1: is call them and let them know that you guys

2141
02:06:03,480 --> 02:06:06,160
Speaker 1: will have oh this money for our record. And they

2142
02:06:06,200 --> 02:06:09,120
Speaker 1: were gladly. They were like, here, take half the song,

2143
02:06:09,280 --> 02:06:12,080
Speaker 1: take all the song. We're we're we have no problem

2144
02:06:12,160 --> 02:06:15,720
Speaker 1: with that. We would we would make people aware that

2145
02:06:15,840 --> 02:06:21,440
Speaker 1: they were uh in potential breach and uh uh they

2146
02:06:21,480 --> 02:06:25,400
Speaker 1: would gladly split anything he wants uh and make a deal.

2147
02:06:26,320 --> 02:06:29,080
Speaker 1: So we grew up in the era where the Beatles broke.

2148
02:06:29,400 --> 02:06:33,720
Speaker 1: Everybody picked up an instrument, they played in bands. There

2149
02:06:33,840 --> 02:06:37,040
Speaker 1: was a band everywhere, and there were ups and downs.

2150
02:06:37,120 --> 02:06:43,520
Speaker 1: There were some disco DJ whatever, But that scene has

2151
02:06:43,640 --> 02:06:47,000
Speaker 1: really been undercut. You know, the old scene of well,

2152
02:06:47,040 --> 02:06:49,040
Speaker 1: I'm gonna play in my band, I'm gonna work the

2153
02:06:49,080 --> 02:06:51,320
Speaker 1: way there aren't some people who do it, but most

2154
02:06:51,360 --> 02:06:54,040
Speaker 1: stuff is cut it home and most stuff is electronic.

2155
02:06:54,560 --> 02:06:57,920
Speaker 1: How do you feel about today's music do you think

2156
02:06:58,400 --> 02:07:03,840
Speaker 1: and the fact that rock is not primary? Uh? I

2157
02:07:03,920 --> 02:07:07,600
Speaker 1: have mixed feelings about it. I I I like a

2158
02:07:07,720 --> 02:07:10,200
Speaker 1: lot some of those stuff that's being done today. I

2159
02:07:10,360 --> 02:07:13,920
Speaker 1: understand it. Maybe it's because I understand the process of

2160
02:07:14,040 --> 02:07:17,840
Speaker 1: how it's done on pro tools and with logic and uh,

2161
02:07:18,120 --> 02:07:21,720
Speaker 1: and how they humanize it. Uh. Funny someone said something

2162
02:07:21,760 --> 02:07:23,080
Speaker 1: to me the other day and he just hit home.

2163
02:07:23,520 --> 02:07:26,160
Speaker 1: We grew up in a band of when bands were popular,

2164
02:07:26,520 --> 02:07:30,200
Speaker 1: and now singers are popular singers because singers are everything

2165
02:07:30,240 --> 02:07:33,280
Speaker 1: they make. They make everything humanized. You hear all these

2166
02:07:33,360 --> 02:07:37,000
Speaker 1: incredible girl vocalists and some incredible guys out there too.

2167
02:07:37,120 --> 02:07:39,520
Speaker 1: But you put a kick ass singer on a on

2168
02:07:39,640 --> 02:07:44,320
Speaker 1: a sterile dance track and it's gonna sound incredible, you know.

2169
02:07:44,840 --> 02:07:50,040
Speaker 1: So Uh, and some people make musical strides and uh,

2170
02:07:50,680 --> 02:07:52,920
Speaker 1: Kendrick Lamar, I guess he is doing some some good

2171
02:07:53,080 --> 02:07:56,160
Speaker 1: out there, and uh, he seems to be ahead of

2172
02:07:56,240 --> 02:08:00,880
Speaker 1: the game. And uh. Um I I like. I like

2173
02:08:01,080 --> 02:08:04,600
Speaker 1: the process of using the modern technology with why I

2174
02:08:04,720 --> 02:08:08,040
Speaker 1: make records personally, uh, being a chance that I don't have.

2175
02:08:08,320 --> 02:08:10,240
Speaker 1: I don't have the luxury of being able to have

2176
02:08:10,400 --> 02:08:13,000
Speaker 1: these people that live in different cities at my beck

2177
02:08:13,080 --> 02:08:15,880
Speaker 1: and call to get in a room and play. I

2178
02:08:16,000 --> 02:08:18,160
Speaker 1: try and make do with what I have, and these

2179
02:08:18,240 --> 02:08:21,360
Speaker 1: tools allow you to do that. I love mash ups.

2180
02:08:21,720 --> 02:08:25,880
Speaker 1: I love the new genres, the mashing up genres and

2181
02:08:26,120 --> 02:08:30,160
Speaker 1: all the kind of experimentation. I think because I I

2182
02:08:30,320 --> 02:08:33,920
Speaker 1: just grew up in the and the Beatles era Sergeant Pepper,

2183
02:08:34,280 --> 02:08:38,520
Speaker 1: where they tried everything imaginable on tape and and uh,

2184
02:08:39,120 --> 02:08:42,640
Speaker 1: all kinds of things between sound effects, playing shipped backwards

2185
02:08:43,000 --> 02:08:45,560
Speaker 1: and doing everything they open the floodgates as far as

2186
02:08:45,600 --> 02:08:48,760
Speaker 1: I was concerned. And do you keep up on modern

2187
02:08:48,920 --> 02:08:52,360
Speaker 1: music or you're just kind of aware? I'm kind of aware.

2188
02:08:52,400 --> 02:08:54,680
Speaker 1: I don't keep up as much as I should. I have.

2189
02:08:54,880 --> 02:08:56,640
Speaker 1: I have a daughter, a thirty three year old daughter

2190
02:08:56,920 --> 02:09:00,240
Speaker 1: that keeps me in the know. Uh, real cool, you

2191
02:09:00,320 --> 02:09:03,440
Speaker 1: know what I mean. And but as far as me knowing,

2192
02:09:03,760 --> 02:09:06,080
Speaker 1: I listened to the radio a lot when I'm driving.

2193
02:09:06,480 --> 02:09:08,880
Speaker 1: Serious radio a lot of its Beatle channel, but I'll

2194
02:09:08,880 --> 02:09:12,200
Speaker 1: occasionally listen to some other channels, and uh again, I

2195
02:09:12,320 --> 02:09:14,960
Speaker 1: like people out there. I like Uh, I like Adele,

2196
02:09:15,320 --> 02:09:18,720
Speaker 1: I like Pink, I like Harry Styles is pretty good.

2197
02:09:19,320 --> 02:09:22,600
Speaker 1: I like Sam Smith, you know, but they're mostly they're

2198
02:09:22,640 --> 02:09:27,879
Speaker 1: mostly singers, you know, and you know, once the business

2199
02:09:28,080 --> 02:09:35,120
Speaker 1: hit turmoil, certainly in thousand, Napster budgets went down, sessions

2200
02:09:35,240 --> 02:09:39,360
Speaker 1: dried up. Are there any sessions and anymore? Anybody ever

2201
02:09:39,440 --> 02:09:43,480
Speaker 1: call you all need to do overdubs? You know. I

2202
02:09:43,560 --> 02:09:45,560
Speaker 1: got called from Mike McDonald to do do do some

2203
02:09:45,720 --> 02:09:50,400
Speaker 1: overdubs on his album. Don Felder called me, Uh, the

2204
02:09:50,480 --> 02:09:53,120
Speaker 1: only movie sessions that are really being done now are

2205
02:09:53,240 --> 02:09:56,280
Speaker 1: movie sessions or for video games. My daughter is a

2206
02:09:56,360 --> 02:09:59,320
Speaker 1: video game producer and she's doing sessions all the time,

2207
02:09:59,640 --> 02:10:05,040
Speaker 1: but they're with orchestras, and uh uh, Like I said,

2208
02:10:05,560 --> 02:10:07,640
Speaker 1: a few sessions are being done here and there, but

2209
02:10:07,760 --> 02:10:11,160
Speaker 1: not really live sessions that I know about, except in Nashville.

2210
02:10:11,200 --> 02:10:13,280
Speaker 1: I think they still do them in Nashville quite a bit.

2211
02:10:13,960 --> 02:10:16,120
Speaker 1: Uh That, which is kind of becoming the new recording

2212
02:10:16,200 --> 02:10:20,040
Speaker 1: capital that l A was as the recording capital, you know, right,

2213
02:10:20,200 --> 02:10:24,000
Speaker 1: So what's next for you personally? Next? Rest I'm trying

2214
02:10:24,000 --> 02:10:28,360
Speaker 1: to improve my songwriting. I'm trying to improve my lyric writing. Uh.

2215
02:10:29,080 --> 02:10:32,160
Speaker 1: I've just wrote a song with Shania Twain, who I've

2216
02:10:32,160 --> 02:10:34,520
Speaker 1: been a big fan of for a long time. I

2217
02:10:34,600 --> 02:10:38,880
Speaker 1: might be getting ready to write with Richard Marks uh

2218
02:10:39,000 --> 02:10:41,640
Speaker 1: co write something for his album with him. And so

2219
02:10:41,760 --> 02:10:44,320
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to better myself as a piano player

2220
02:10:44,720 --> 02:10:47,200
Speaker 1: and as a songwriter and be the best version of

2221
02:10:47,320 --> 02:10:50,480
Speaker 1: myself that I can. And when we see another solo

2222
02:10:50,600 --> 02:10:55,560
Speaker 1: album from you, possibly, possibly, I'd like to do one,

2223
02:10:55,880 --> 02:10:59,200
Speaker 1: but not in the near future. Okay, David, this has

2224
02:10:59,240 --> 02:11:01,840
Speaker 1: been fanta stick, you know, from someone who was there,

2225
02:11:01,840 --> 02:11:04,560
Speaker 1: a real inside view. I want to thank you for

2226
02:11:04,640 --> 02:11:07,120
Speaker 1: taking the time. But Bob, I have so much more

2227
02:11:07,200 --> 02:11:11,120
Speaker 1: to tell you. Is that a joker? You really know?

2228
02:11:11,760 --> 02:11:15,240
Speaker 1: It's really okay? Well, just just just a preview. We're

2229
02:11:15,280 --> 02:11:18,160
Speaker 1: not gonna go into it now. But if we did

2230
02:11:18,280 --> 02:11:22,480
Speaker 1: talk more, what would we talk about? Weston? Grab that

2231
02:11:22,560 --> 02:11:25,880
Speaker 1: picture off the wall. I'll just show you a little

2232
02:11:25,880 --> 02:11:27,720
Speaker 1: bit more about my past. Here. I've got a picture

2233
02:11:27,760 --> 02:11:31,560
Speaker 1: I want to show you. This is when I was

2234
02:11:31,640 --> 02:11:35,360
Speaker 1: in London in nineteen seven, the Summer of Love. I

2235
02:11:35,480 --> 02:11:39,920
Speaker 1: was at Olympic Studios, where watching Procol Harem record their

2236
02:11:40,000 --> 02:11:42,920
Speaker 1: first album. But my dad was recording Sammy Davis Jr.

2237
02:11:43,160 --> 02:11:45,360
Speaker 1: And here's the proof of it right here. If you

2238
02:11:45,400 --> 02:11:49,280
Speaker 1: can see that. Can you see wow? Just being next

2239
02:11:49,320 --> 02:11:52,960
Speaker 1: to Sammy? Okay, I was thirteen. That was two year

2240
02:11:52,960 --> 02:11:57,600
Speaker 1: and happy before I met Jeff. Unbelievable. That's at Olympic Studios,

2241
02:11:57,720 --> 02:12:01,280
Speaker 1: just to show you the the amazing stuff I saw

2242
02:12:01,360 --> 02:12:04,280
Speaker 1: in my life was was before Toto ever started, was

2243
02:12:04,360 --> 02:12:07,600
Speaker 1: with my dad, you know, and everything right now. Another

2244
02:12:07,680 --> 02:12:09,800
Speaker 1: thing I'm doing that I'm really interested in is I'm

2245
02:12:09,960 --> 02:12:14,240
Speaker 1: archiving my father's arrangements with the Eastman School of Music,

2246
02:12:14,560 --> 02:12:18,640
Speaker 1: who has started a jazz program teaching Marty Paige the

2247
02:12:18,760 --> 02:12:21,920
Speaker 1: style of writing that he did, which is famous for

2248
02:12:22,000 --> 02:12:25,840
Speaker 1: West Coast writing. And so they're they're making they're making

2249
02:12:25,920 --> 02:12:28,840
Speaker 1: prints of it, and they're making recordings of it and

2250
02:12:29,040 --> 02:12:33,000
Speaker 1: keeping the jazz alive, which is our real art art

2251
02:12:33,080 --> 02:12:35,920
Speaker 1: form that we've contributed up in the United States to

2252
02:12:36,040 --> 02:12:39,160
Speaker 1: the world is jazz is the art of jazz. Keeping

2253
02:12:39,200 --> 02:12:42,839
Speaker 1: that alive, you know. So I'm involved in that too, okay.

2254
02:12:43,400 --> 02:12:45,360
Speaker 1: And how did you decide to wear the top hat?

2255
02:12:46,560 --> 02:12:50,200
Speaker 1: A top hat? It's kind of right of passage. You know,

2256
02:12:50,840 --> 02:12:54,560
Speaker 1: Leon had that with mad Dogs and Englishmen. Although I

2257
02:12:54,680 --> 02:12:58,920
Speaker 1: do my one of my biggest heroes is WC. Fields,

2258
02:12:59,040 --> 02:13:01,120
Speaker 1: who always had a time pad on. I have to

2259
02:13:01,160 --> 02:13:02,920
Speaker 1: tell you that I did get it from Leon Russell,

2260
02:13:03,440 --> 02:13:05,160
Speaker 1: and then I know L. John had it one for

2261
02:13:05,200 --> 02:13:07,960
Speaker 1: a little bit there. But Leon Russell, the master's space

2262
02:13:08,040 --> 02:13:13,120
Speaker 1: and time, who I knew uh pretty well, and one

2263
02:13:13,160 --> 02:13:16,760
Speaker 1: of one of my major major influences. The other one

2264
02:13:16,800 --> 02:13:20,880
Speaker 1: besides Elton was Leon Russell. Um and uh I even

2265
02:13:20,920 --> 02:13:24,960
Speaker 1: did a song uh on through the looking Glass. Uh.

2266
02:13:25,080 --> 02:13:27,480
Speaker 1: It takes a lot to cry, It takes it. It

2267
02:13:27,560 --> 02:13:29,400
Speaker 1: takes a lot to laugh. It takes a train to cry.

2268
02:13:29,520 --> 02:13:32,560
Speaker 1: The Bob Dylan song I dedicated to Leon Russell, you know.

2269
02:13:32,760 --> 02:13:36,960
Speaker 1: So that's where I got the top hat. But anybody

2270
02:13:36,960 --> 02:13:40,440
Speaker 1: who wears the top pat knows they're relatively heavy and

2271
02:13:40,480 --> 02:13:45,040
Speaker 1: they're not that comfortable. Well you know that's true. I

2272
02:13:45,120 --> 02:13:48,240
Speaker 1: have light ones and there I have a big head,

2273
02:13:48,600 --> 02:13:51,320
Speaker 1: so uh it swells occasionally, so I have to have

2274
02:13:51,400 --> 02:13:54,960
Speaker 1: different sizes black ass. There you have it. We could

2275
02:13:55,000 --> 02:13:58,160
Speaker 1: go on forever, David, but we gotta cut it off today.

2276
02:13:58,720 --> 02:14:01,680
Speaker 1: Promise me we'll do it again. We definitely will because

2277
02:14:02,120 --> 02:14:06,680
Speaker 1: you know the stories that you tell are different from

2278
02:14:06,680 --> 02:14:09,280
Speaker 1: a lot of perspectives because you've seen both sides of

2279
02:14:09,320 --> 02:14:12,960
Speaker 1: the fence. In an addition, you had that peak from

2280
02:14:13,000 --> 02:14:16,880
Speaker 1: a very young age because of your father. Until next time.

2281
02:14:17,160 --> 02:14:18,480
Speaker 1: This is Bob Left Sex