1 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast. 2 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 1: My guest today is Lowell Paul S Yes, Paul of 3 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:23,080 Speaker 1: Peter Paul and Mary No. How you doing good? Pool? 4 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 1: I heard Pool so like, you must be an East 5 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: Coast kind of guy. You know, it's funny. I'm from Connecticut, 6 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 1: and people from Connecticut think that they don't have an accent. 7 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: But you've just proven that that's untrue. Well, I used 8 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: to be, uh mid East Coast. I was born in Maryland, 9 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:45,159 Speaker 1: lived born in Baltimore, lived in Maryland for quite a 10 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: few years before moving to the Midwest. But when you 11 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: moved to the Midwest, they say, most uh disc jockeys 12 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: and radio people come from the Midwest because they lose 13 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 1: their accent. And to a large extent, I think that's true. 14 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: I don't. I don't hear that I have an accent, 15 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:04,399 Speaker 1: except if I have to pronounce the word M I 16 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 1: l K. Peter used to rag me all the time. 17 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:13,039 Speaker 1: Let's say, I'll take a glass of milk. He said, exactly, 18 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:15,039 Speaker 1: there's a knee in there that we don't have on 19 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:19,760 Speaker 1: the East Coast. Yeah, that's right. I spent a summer 20 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: in Chicago in sixty nine, which makes me an antique. 21 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: But they called soda pop, which was a new thing 22 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: for Uh. Yeah, okay, you're in. Egg creams were a 23 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 1: new thing to me when I moved to New York. 24 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: That's very much a New York thing. I mean I 25 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: had heard about them, but I grew up in Connecticut, 26 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 1: fifty miles from New York, and you certainly just couldn't 27 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: run around get an egg cream in Fairfield, Connecticut or 28 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 1: Bridgeport right next to it. But right now you're in Maine. 29 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 1: I am. I'm on the coast, beautiful little town that 30 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 1: I am reluctant to give you the title of because 31 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 1: many people will to move here, uh and obscure the 32 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 1: quaintness of the village. But yeah, I live in Blue Hill, Maine. 33 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: I have for the past forty seven years with my wife, 34 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:16,079 Speaker 1: Betty of fifty seven years, and we brought our three 35 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 1: children up here. Uh. Followed it back to the Earth 36 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 1: movement really in the late sixties early seventies. Absolutely, Yeah, 37 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:27,800 Speaker 1: which on top of we're licking our wounds after the 38 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 1: Vietnam War protests. Yeah, yes, Well, the desire I think 39 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:35,639 Speaker 1: of every human heart is to get to the essence 40 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 1: of what life is all about. And it's hard to 41 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:40,919 Speaker 1: do that when you're being shaken around in New York City. 42 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:44,799 Speaker 1: So we were very happy to move here. Life was simpler. 43 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:48,959 Speaker 1: We had to abandon some of the niceties, but then 44 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:53,959 Speaker 1: we found, you know, deeper niceties. And it's been and 45 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: of course, you know, pandemic notwithstanding, Uh, it's been very 46 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 1: easy to travel. Most of my work was on a stage. 47 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: If it wasn't in Ohio, it was in San Francisco 48 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: or Utah or Chicago. So it didn't really make any 49 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:12,919 Speaker 1: difference where my home base was. Okay, how far from 50 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:17,399 Speaker 1: Boston are you? Uh, five hour drive? Okay, so what's 51 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 1: the nearest main city, Bangor? That's where the airport. Oh 52 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: you're way up there, Bangor. Oh you have w I 53 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 1: went on a canoe trip on the Alagash once again. 54 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 1: That was but we flew to Bangor and then he 55 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 1: had to take like a four four hour bus ride. 56 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 1: People have no idea how large Maine really is. That's true, 57 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 1: that's true. You get to go far north is but boy, 58 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 1: it is beautiful. Uh. You know, there are what a 59 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 1: million people in the whole state. Uh, and I would say, 60 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 1: fully a quarter of them living in the Portland area. 61 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 1: So uh, I think that accounts for the reason that 62 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 1: people are so friendly to one another because there's a 63 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: few of us. We're so happy to see each other. 64 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, another human being. Uh, it's it's great 65 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: and I'm yes, you're right. We are really up here. 66 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: It's almost in down what you've considered down east. Okay, 67 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 1: So the water never gets warm where you are, not 68 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:23,279 Speaker 1: really okay? And how many people are in the town 69 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 1: of Blue Hill about in the summertime it swells to 70 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:30,919 Speaker 1: maybet Okay, so at least a decent number. You're not 71 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 1: there twiddling your fingers alone. So you say you've been 72 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:38,599 Speaker 1: married for fifty seven years, and that's also you've lived 73 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 1: your life to a great degree on the road. The 74 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 1: combination doesn't always work. So what is the secret to success? Well, 75 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 1: it's a combination of friendship. Now that that may sound 76 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:58,600 Speaker 1: lightweight when you're trying to describe a marriage relationship, but 77 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: the fact is Benny and I went to high school 78 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:04,359 Speaker 1: together in Michigan, and though we never dated then, we 79 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 1: knew of each other for various reasons. She was a 80 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:12,359 Speaker 1: knockout dream queen cheerleader and a year behind me and 81 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: I was the local rock and roll kid with my 82 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 1: own rhythm and blues band in high school. And we met. 83 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:24,720 Speaker 1: Get this bob in the distance, We'll hear a drum roll? 84 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 1: We met. We met by chance coming out of a 85 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 1: subway in New York City some eight years later, and 86 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: I said, Betty bannered and she said, no, old stookey, 87 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 1: and her date said, you know, we really got to 88 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 1: get moving along. And I said, that's all right, I'll 89 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 1: walk with you to the wherever you're going. So that 90 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:51,279 Speaker 1: beginner relationship, but the challenges of being on the road 91 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:56,679 Speaker 1: and maintaining a relationship were many, and I wasn't always 92 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: equal to the task. The first ten years. We're filled 93 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 1: with so much success and so much work. I mean, honestly, 94 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:08,719 Speaker 1: we did three hundred shows a year, three hundred shows 95 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 1: in one year, and that's you know. We're tried to 96 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 1: shoehorn in record albums, television appearances, publicity, travel itself. You know, 97 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 1: a half day to get there, in a half day 98 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 1: to get back. So a remarkable wife who has raised 99 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:31,040 Speaker 1: now three daughters with me, Uh, you can understand why 100 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:33,039 Speaker 1: we would want to get out of the city and 101 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 1: simplify our life. And frankly, if it hadn't been for 102 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 1: a deep longing to know who I was and what 103 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: this thing called living was all about, I wouldn't have 104 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 1: taken the spiritual turn that I took in the late sixties, 105 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:57,280 Speaker 1: which really changed my life. Gave me a whole perspective 106 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:01,920 Speaker 1: on what really has value, you know, other human beings, 107 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 1: and also a desire to be authentic. I grew up 108 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: as an only child, so I could be authentic to myself. 109 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 1: But what did it mean to be authentic to the world? Uh? 110 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 1: Does that mean telling the truth all the time? Well, 111 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 1: passing through the gate of marijuana, one can be overly 112 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 1: authentic with people, and I tended to be a little 113 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 1: excessive the first uh oh say, ten twelve years of 114 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: my life. But ultimately I have been very blessed to 115 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 1: discover the language of metaphor, which is what songwriting is 116 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: all about, and realized that everybody has a spiritual sense. 117 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 1: They just need to be acquainted with it. You know, 118 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:50,119 Speaker 1: the atheist who denies God really is very hard pressed 119 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 1: to deny love. And yet if you read the Bible, 120 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 1: you see that Paul says that God is loved, and 121 00:07:56,560 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 1: if you interact normally in your life. You begin to 122 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 1: recognize the value of love in your own life, whether 123 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: it's interpersonal or whether it's kind of faith that tomorrow 124 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: will be a better time. So all of those things 125 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 1: factored into how I've been able to enjoy this marriage 126 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: with this beautiful woman that I married, still enjoy a 127 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 1: companionship with my children. Uh. There's a lot of humor, 128 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 1: a lot of laughter. Um. Some of it, uh, you 129 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 1: know is hard pressed. Some of it particularly in these 130 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: contested times in which we live, where we're taught by 131 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 1: our leaders to mistrust that which we read, and we 132 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 1: end up um carrying that over into a mistrust of 133 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 1: each other or a cynicism. That's more of a challenge 134 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 1: than it used to be. But at the core of it, Bob, 135 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 1: I swear, if you can retain your compassion for your 136 00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:03,079 Speaker 1: fellow human beings, for your fellow citizens, Um, you can 137 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 1: make a go of it. You can turn lemons into lemonade, 138 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:11,440 Speaker 1: and you can create hope where there has been fear 139 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 1: and distrusted. Okay, let's talk about this spiritual You can't 140 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 1: see the air quotes on the podcast conversion. Uh. This 141 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: is not uncommon with musical artists traveling people were almost 142 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:28,719 Speaker 1: you know, they're in partaking of substances and all of 143 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:32,200 Speaker 1: a sudden they find themselves on the floor and they 144 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: have a transformative moment. Was that how it happened to you? 145 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 1: Or was an evolution? How did the light go on? Um? 146 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:43,199 Speaker 1: You know, I think once again, if I can refer 147 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 1: to being an only child, there's an inner dialogue going 148 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:49,719 Speaker 1: on all the time because I didn't have brothers and 149 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 1: sisters to have that dialogue with. So there's a refutation, 150 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:59,840 Speaker 1: a kind of distrust that's built into the character of 151 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:05,679 Speaker 1: only child because he doesn't really know what's dependable. And 152 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:11,079 Speaker 1: so this whole barrel of fame and fortune that landed 153 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 1: on me in nineteen sixty was increasingly more difficult to 154 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: figure out personal worth from. Uh. If I was standing 155 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 1: in line with Betty waiting to go into a movie 156 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 1: and the manager saw and recognize me, say, oh, Mr Stukey, 157 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: come out, come out you You don't you don't have 158 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 1: to wait? You start to take these or Mr Stucky, 159 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 1: we we have a table. I don't have a reservation. Wait, 160 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 1: it's okay, we have a we have a table for you. 161 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 1: Oh Mr Stukey, here could come here? You begin to 162 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 1: believe your own press clipics, and that becomes a very empty, 163 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 1: hollow existence because you have to make a choice. You 164 00:10:57,120 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: are either going to start believing it and buying into it, 165 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 1: or if you're trying to be real, you're going to 166 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: stick with people who are truth tellers, like my wife 167 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 1: or that little piece of conscience that you hung onto 168 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:15,439 Speaker 1: since you were a little kid that told you it 169 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:17,440 Speaker 1: was bad to take that piece of candy from the 170 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:20,439 Speaker 1: five in time and you say, okay, well it's bad 171 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 1: to borrow on other people's awarenesses. Uh, I just want 172 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 1: to be a citizen. So it wasn't really a drug 173 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 1: problem that brought me to my knees. It was more 174 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:36,719 Speaker 1: of a soul problem. Um. I just really needed to 175 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 1: know if there was some direction in life that was 176 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 1: valuable with a capital V. And you know, I don't 177 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:47,680 Speaker 1: know if you want to hear the whole story, but 178 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 1: I was backstage in Austin, um in Abilene, Texas and 179 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 1: a kid, and I'm going through these changes. You know, 180 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:58,599 Speaker 1: I'm asking myself, what's life all out? My god? You know, 181 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:00,320 Speaker 1: I want to be on the on the right side. 182 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 1: I want me on the good side. Now. Parenthetically, I 183 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: have to insert here something that you already know. When 184 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 1: you're out in the world and there's a chance to 185 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 1: do good, whether it's feeding or housing the homeless, or 186 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 1: whether it's protesting the war in Vietnam, or whether it's 187 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 1: marching for human rights, there is a sense of participation 188 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 1: in something that's bigger than yourself and something that's good. So, 189 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 1: notwithstanding those kind of uh encouragements, one asks oneself, well, okay, 190 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 1: but these are just actions. I want to be connected 191 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 1: with these actions. I want to have a sense of 192 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: familial participation in the betterment of the world. Where do 193 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 1: I find that? So flat? And parentheses flash flash back 194 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:59,959 Speaker 1: to uh Adelene, Texas. Kid comes up to me backstage. 195 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:05,080 Speaker 1: There's nobody around, you know. Um, security is pretty good 196 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 1: at concerts and usually people don't you know, are not 197 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:11,680 Speaker 1: allowed backstage. So I'm back there tuning the guitar and 198 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 1: there's his kids standing there and he says, can I 199 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 1: talk to you? I say, well, yeah, I'll look for 200 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 1: you after. Okay, I'm a little busy right now. But 201 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:26,680 Speaker 1: as those things go, and one tries to be true 202 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:30,680 Speaker 1: to one's word. When the show was over, I've tried 203 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 1: to look for him, and sure enough, there he was, 204 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:35,559 Speaker 1: so in the midst of a bunch of people, maybe 205 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:38,320 Speaker 1: a half dozen of them, handing me albums to sign 206 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 1: and pictures and telling me about the last time that 207 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:44,080 Speaker 1: they saw the trio. I turned to the kid and say, 208 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 1: what was it you wanted to talk to me about? 209 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:48,199 Speaker 1: And he says, I want to talk to you about 210 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 1: the Lord. And I don't know the The bottom dropped 211 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 1: out of reality and I go, oh, okay, well hang 212 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:06,320 Speaker 1: on just a second. But my heart is going chapboom, 213 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:08,680 Speaker 1: chiboom chi boom, because it's like an answer to prayer. 214 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 1: You know, where did this guy come from and what 215 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 1: gives him the audacious right to say that he wants 216 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 1: to talk to me about the Lord? So we get 217 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 1: so the crowd clears out, and he says, I think 218 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 1: we should go someplace where we can talk. I say, well, sure, well, 219 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 1: let's go back to my hotel room. Hearts still going 220 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 1: bum bum bum bump. But now I'm beginning to think, Hey, 221 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 1: I'm a star here. Okay, I got I got a reputation, 222 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 1: I've got I've got knowledge of the world. I've I've 223 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 1: I've smoked dope, I've I've read Edgar Casey I I 224 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: understand the complexity of things. So as we climb into 225 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 1: the back of his pickup truck this friends are driving, 226 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: I turned to when they say, so, what do you 227 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 1: think about reincarnation, you know, trying to level out the 228 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 1: balance of our spiritual experiences, And he says, well, it 229 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 1: may or may not be true, but I think we 230 00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 1: have more important things to talk about tonight, don't you. 231 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 1: So we go back to the hotel room and I'm 232 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: fussing all around. I'm you know, would you like a coke? 233 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:10,360 Speaker 1: The want me to open the window, anything but confront 234 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: what it is this kid's possibly gonna say, and he says, 235 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 1: I think we should pray, And at that moment he 236 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 1: hits the floor on his knees. His friends hit the 237 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 1: floor on their knees, and so I do too. And 238 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 1: all he said, Bob was, I think no one wants 239 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: to say thank you Lord for getting me backstage without 240 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 1: into the concert, without a ticket, backstage without to pass, 241 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 1: And I think no one wants to talk to you. 242 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: And I just started to cry because in that moment 243 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 1: I realized how disenfranchised I was from the core of belief. 244 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 1: And that was the transformative moment for me. Uh. After that, 245 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 1: I can't say that, you know, I moved as beatifically 246 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 1: as Saint Francis. I was really kind of a bore 247 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: and and I was antagonistic. I was aggressive, I was 248 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 1: I was a Jesus freak. Uh for about two years 249 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: before I learned the language or readopted the language of 250 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: metaphor and could speak about my faith and what had 251 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: happened to me in terms that other people could understand, 252 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 1: maybe even sympathize with, maybe even emulate. But when you 253 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 1: use labels to describe your situation, you're adopting somebody else's descriptions. Uh. 254 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 1: And they don't always sit well, they're not personalized. Uh So, 255 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: over these past what forty years or so, forty to 256 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: fifty years, I've learned the language of an inclusiveness in 257 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 1: terms of expressing my faith. Um So, the transformation didn't stop, uh, 258 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 1: you know in nineteen nineteen seventy. It began in nineteen 259 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 1: seventy and I'm still I'm still going through a matter 260 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:28,639 Speaker 1: of fact, this do you want to? Can I do 261 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 1: a little song for you? Well, the only issue is 262 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:34,879 Speaker 1: the rights issue. Who wrote the song? Okay, Well we'recovered. 263 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 1: There's this guy named Stooky that used to sing with 264 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 1: Peter Paul Mary. He wrote this song, okay, and you 265 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 1: own the song and I owned the song out Okay, 266 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 1: then you can say just say you're giving us permission. Okay, 267 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 1: I'm giving you permission, but I'm wondering if maybe uh yeah, 268 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: so I'll just do a little bit of it. But 269 00:17:53,800 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: you'll get the idea. So let's talk about love with 270 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 1: the capital L When was the last time you've heard it? 271 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 1: Spell with the emphasis in the proper place. Well, let's 272 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:33,880 Speaker 1: talk about love in the upper case. Some might call 273 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:41,600 Speaker 1: it amazing grace or the author of time and space. 274 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:49,640 Speaker 1: Let's talk about love, love, love, love love. You may 275 00:18:49,760 --> 00:19:00,360 Speaker 1: recall this situation change your heart you hadn't seen were 276 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 1: Love's the only explanation for a miracle that sets somebody free? 277 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 1: Who is? Let's talk about love with capital litt. Not 278 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:20,680 Speaker 1: talking about witchcraft or a magic spell or hain't keep 279 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 1: painkre in a cheap motel. No talk love, love, love love. 280 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 1: I'm not saying that I love you anymore or any less. 281 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 1: I'm just saying that there's more here then we are 282 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 1: usually willing to confessis it. Let's talk about love where 283 00:19:54,560 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 1: it all begin Yeah, love love love like I'm master plan. 284 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:08,679 Speaker 1: If you believe, then raise you and let's talk about love. 285 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 1: Love love, love love love with the capitol hel WHOA, 286 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 1: So how were you? That's for a couple of things. Hey, 287 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:25,439 Speaker 1: how old is that song? Six months? Maybe? Wow? You 288 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,640 Speaker 1: still got it? Secondly, you still have your voice when 289 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 1: many people, you know, they get older in their voice. Subsides, 290 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 1: any special trick or just you know, God helped you out. Uh, 291 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 1: that's a nice way to put the question. Doubtless there's 292 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:47,679 Speaker 1: some assistance from h you know, having faith. Uh, but 293 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,399 Speaker 1: uh no, I don't. I haven't smoked since August fourteen. 294 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 1: And you may ask why I remember that date so specifically. 295 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 1: I was driving with a friend, Jim Mason, who produced 296 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:03,000 Speaker 1: a couple of Poco albums, and there was a cigarette. 297 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 1: There was a cigarette lighter whole but no cigarette lighter 298 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:08,479 Speaker 1: in the run rental car that he was driving, and 299 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 1: we both had cigarettes, and I took that as a sign, 300 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,160 Speaker 1: so I reached over, took the cigarette out of his mouth, 301 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: out of my mouth, through it out the window, and 302 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 1: I said August fourteenth, nineteen seventy, the day Noel Stookey 303 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 1: and Jim Mason stopped smoking. Well, unfortunately it was true 304 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:24,680 Speaker 1: for me, but you know, you can't make truth for 305 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:27,959 Speaker 1: somebody else. He went back to it eventually quit. But 306 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,679 Speaker 1: so I think not smoking has helped a lot. I 307 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 1: still drink a fair amount. I mean, you'd like to 308 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,800 Speaker 1: have margarita in the evening and maybe a glass of 309 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 1: wine with dinner. Um, my wife certainly keeps me on 310 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: the straight and narrow in terms of nutrition. You know, 311 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:48,439 Speaker 1: lots of veggies and and I'm living in the country, Bob. 312 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:52,639 Speaker 1: I mean, it's laid back here, and you have the pandemic. 313 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:55,440 Speaker 1: Didn't lay me. Didn't lay me back any further. I'd 314 00:21:55,480 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 1: be lying in bed. But uh, it's very comfortable and 315 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:06,320 Speaker 1: very inspiring to be here. Okay, speaking of inspiration, we 316 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:08,479 Speaker 1: live in an era very different from the one you 317 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:10,359 Speaker 1: came up in. Well, if you came up, it was 318 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:13,640 Speaker 1: a monoculture. If you were successful, everybody knew your name, 319 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: whereas today it's really a cornucopy of stuff. So how 320 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 1: do you keep your inspiration to create? Mm hmm, Well, 321 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 1: I've I've always been you know, I have to confess 322 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:35,440 Speaker 1: that I'm not a writer who writes for remuneration. That's 323 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 1: why folk music was so great for me, because it's 324 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:48,159 Speaker 1: an institution that uh, that depends on people articulating concerns 325 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:52,440 Speaker 1: of the day. Um. They don't write for money. They 326 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:55,160 Speaker 1: write because it had to be said. So I really 327 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:57,680 Speaker 1: am a cathartic writer. That is to say, I don't 328 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 1: sit down like a backrack and generate music every day 329 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 1: because it's a discipline that I feel I have to obey. 330 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:11,240 Speaker 1: I really respond to the particular moment or the particular concern. 331 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,960 Speaker 1: I mean when I did when I did impeachable to 332 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:19,679 Speaker 1: the tune of Unforgettable that went viral on YouTube and Facebook, 333 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:26,920 Speaker 1: I was responding to what I felt were flagrant UH 334 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 1: offenses by Donald Trump, and I thought that they would 335 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:36,160 Speaker 1: be traceable to UH to Russia. That that investigation went 336 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:41,920 Speaker 1: by the bye when Mueller was removed from the opportunity 337 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 1: to take it to its finality along with Comey, and 338 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:52,160 Speaker 1: and then I wrote, Uh. I wrote a song called 339 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:55,960 Speaker 1: I Will stand Uh. You know that open the election 340 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,040 Speaker 1: is over. Some say what's done, it's done. Well, that's 341 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:01,440 Speaker 1: easier if your side is one. Um, so why don't 342 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 1: we just work together? And I said, well, there are 343 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:05,400 Speaker 1: a list of things that I'm not going to work 344 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:07,960 Speaker 1: together on and I sang a song with about nine 345 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:15,439 Speaker 1: of them. And there's also reinforcement, you know. Uh. For instance, 346 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 1: if I was creating totally in a vacuum, UM, I'd 347 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 1: probably have a more difficult time sustaining it. But when 348 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 1: you go in front of anywhere from fifteen to people 349 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:34,400 Speaker 1: and you make a statement musically, you're going to find 350 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 1: out pretty quickly if the audience agrees with it. Now 351 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:40,920 Speaker 1: they may one think it's entertaining h, in which case 352 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 1: the applause will be light and smattering, or they may 353 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 1: think that it's moving, in which case you will get 354 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,359 Speaker 1: a very pronounced, heavy applause at the end of it, 355 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 1: like I sometimes do for the two new verses I 356 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 1: wrote to America they're beautiful. Or sometimes you will get 357 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:04,719 Speaker 1: and a response that you just hadn't planned on, like 358 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 1: people standing up in the middle of what you're singing about, 359 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 1: or cheering uh in the middle of a verse because 360 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 1: they agree so strongly with what's being said and the 361 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 1: manner in which it's being said. So those encouragements keep 362 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 1: me going. But to return to your original question, I 363 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:30,919 Speaker 1: basically write in response to that which I see needs articulation. Okay, 364 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 1: what I have to ask, because you're talking about politics, 365 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,639 Speaker 1: you're talking about today's world, I must ask, as a 366 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:40,960 Speaker 1: resident of Maine, why did Susan Collins get reelected? Well, 367 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,400 Speaker 1: I mean, aside from all the impressive moneys that were 368 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 1: spent to degrade her opponent, because actually there's two sides 369 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,119 Speaker 1: to that street. There was a lot of impressive moneies 370 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:59,160 Speaker 1: that were spent to degrade Susan Collins. Essentially, the reasoning 371 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:04,239 Speaker 1: behind the deposition of Susan Collins was that she was 372 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:09,639 Speaker 1: Trump's lapdog. Um that anything Trump wanted she voted for. 373 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: Well that's you know, Maine is not a totally liberal state. 374 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: I mean, I were very I can't speak for the Natives, 375 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 1: but they're all straight shooters as far as I'm concerned. 376 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 1: You know, they're really honest, god fearing if you work hard. 377 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 1: I mean, they're the American ethic underlined. And Susan Collins 378 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,480 Speaker 1: has been there for most of them, most of the time. 379 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 1: And like I was telling your engineer before, a lot 380 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:45,719 Speaker 1: of Trump's success is not because of who he is, 381 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,479 Speaker 1: but the fact that people who voted for him are 382 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 1: single issue voters, and the people that voted for Susan 383 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 1: Collins were single issue, you know. They they wanted to 384 00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:03,359 Speaker 1: support somebody who is more anti abortion than she is 385 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:09,280 Speaker 1: pro life uh she uh or pro choice. They wanted 386 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 1: to support somebody that they knew, uh, particularly in this 387 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 1: cacophony of political um chaos that was echoing all around us. 388 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 1: And like I said, the issues were pretty angrily ignored 389 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:34,920 Speaker 1: so that character assassination could take place. And she had 390 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:40,720 Speaker 1: more bucks, and I think she made her point about 391 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:45,440 Speaker 1: Gideon's family to the point where, you know, people bought 392 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:47,520 Speaker 1: into it. Well, and then I don't want to go 393 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:49,680 Speaker 1: someplace that I don't knew about. I'm going to stick 394 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 1: with Susan. But I had a bumper. I had a 395 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: bumper sticker on the back of my truck that said 396 00:27:53,760 --> 00:28:02,679 Speaker 1: bye bye Susan. That was a big popular side. Okay, 397 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 1: let's go back to the beginning. So what did your 398 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,840 Speaker 1: parents do for a living? You were an only child. Yeah, 399 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,359 Speaker 1: my dad was a really a mechanical engineer with a 400 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:15,160 Speaker 1: very clever uh. He is very clever, hands on kind 401 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,400 Speaker 1: of guy. Uh. He worked for the Gates Rubber Company 402 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,199 Speaker 1: during the war years and then had a couple of 403 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 1: promotions that took us to Michigan one and then to Pennsylvania, 404 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 1: where living ninety miles from New York City just made 405 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,399 Speaker 1: me thirsty to move to the city. Eventually, in in 406 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:39,040 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine, my mom was ah. She was a 407 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 1: cashier at a restaurant where my dad used to go 408 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:43,479 Speaker 1: and play the pinball machine and he would come up 409 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 1: to her. He would come up to her and ask 410 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,160 Speaker 1: her for a change, and she would hand him a 411 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 1: bunch of nickels, and he became known as Nick. That 412 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 1: was his nickname. She came from the St. Aubrey family, 413 00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 1: had actually an uncle I think who designed Juliet Prison uh, 414 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 1: the architecture for Juliet Prison. Um. She was a very gracious, lovely, 415 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 1: lovely woman, UM, spiritual in her own way. Former Catholic. 416 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 1: Dad was a former Mormon UM, but they both had 417 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 1: to leave their religions to get married. For dad it 418 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 1: was the second marriage UM. And they brought me up 419 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:27,959 Speaker 1: in the country in a little town called Dorsey, Maryland, 420 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:32,480 Speaker 1: about halfway between Baltimore and Washington, and that that was 421 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 1: a great experience for me. I mean we've you know, 422 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 1: farmed with a horse pulling a plow. I had woods 423 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 1: out behind and a lake up on top of a 424 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:45,080 Speaker 1: mountain and um and a handful of friends. And I 425 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 1: say that in in a positive way. I had five 426 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 1: of the closest buddies you could ever want. We did 427 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 1: everything together and explored together, played games together, imagined together. 428 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 1: I even had a circus uh in my garage where 429 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 1: I put the cat under an orange crate and dragged 430 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:07,640 Speaker 1: her around in a wagon. And uh, my friends were, 431 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 1: you know, the strong man. My friends were selling lemonade. 432 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 1: My friends were, uh the ringmaster. Um. And then I 433 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 1: had and once again returning to the theme of being 434 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:25,800 Speaker 1: an only child, I had all of the imagination in 435 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 1: the world available to me. Um. My parents were really 436 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 1: really supportive all the time. And my dad had a 437 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 1: four string tenor guitar, uh, which I thought it was 438 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 1: just a big uku lele as I grew up, but 439 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:45,680 Speaker 1: then discovered that it could be tuned like a yuku lele. 440 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:52,400 Speaker 1: And that's really where I began loving making music. Yeah, 441 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 1: and did you take any lessons? How did you ultimately 442 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: become a performer and more of a rock and roll performer. Uh? Well, 443 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,239 Speaker 1: you know, I'm I'm fourteen, fifteen years old. How can 444 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 1: you not be a rock and roll performer. That's what 445 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 1: you're hearing, you know. Well, my mom, I mean you 446 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,760 Speaker 1: want to be kind of hip. So but I'll tell 447 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 1: you hip was not Elvis Presley to me, who I 448 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 1: just tried to imitate. Their hip was the Pontiac African 449 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:26,160 Speaker 1: American record store because it was rhythm and blues, it 450 00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 1: was the doo wop. It was the street music that 451 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 1: really got to me. And we had a group in 452 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 1: high school called the Birds of Paradise Um. We wrote 453 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:44,920 Speaker 1: our own theme song, the Birds of pit Rudize do 454 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:53,120 Speaker 1: wah are here to say Hello? Do doo wah? The 455 00:31:53,160 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 1: only way they know do do wah is with song. 456 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:09,040 Speaker 1: There were five of us drummer, bass player and three 457 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 1: singers and uh and my guitar and we we were 458 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 1: busy and we put out an album. I mean that 459 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 1: was unheard of for a high school group. In ninet. 460 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:22,720 Speaker 1: We pressed our own album and sold it in the 461 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:27,640 Speaker 1: high school with some original songs that are still embarrassing 462 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:33,720 Speaker 1: to me when I hear them. Yeah, so you graduate 463 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 1: from high school, what's the next step? Well, I always 464 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 1: I had a job, part time job in a camera 465 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 1: shop in Birmingham, Michigan, and I made movies UM with 466 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 1: my friends in Birmingham. UM. This was after the move 467 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:55,600 Speaker 1: to Michigan, and took that knowledge with me to New York. 468 00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:57,800 Speaker 1: But I'll tell you, I don't know how many times 469 00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,000 Speaker 1: in your life, Bob, you have walked in through the 470 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 1: door expecting one kind of response, received another, and then 471 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:07,440 Speaker 1: recognized it was Hey, that's a heck of a lot 472 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,800 Speaker 1: better the response than the one I was expecting. I 473 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,480 Speaker 1: answered an ad in the New York Times for what 474 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,560 Speaker 1: I thought would be a camera shop job, and it 475 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:23,080 Speaker 1: turned out the guy, uh said, I'm sorry. He said, 476 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,440 Speaker 1: you're applying for your experience is all on a camera shop. 477 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:31,280 Speaker 1: This is for a photo copier job, selling photo cop 478 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,239 Speaker 1: her machines. And went, oh, he said, but wait just 479 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:36,560 Speaker 1: a minute, and he walked into the back room. And 480 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 1: it turns out that this was the beginning of a 481 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:44,120 Speaker 1: Uni bath, which was a single chemical process for the 482 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 1: three stages that are usually required to process negatives from 483 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:53,040 Speaker 1: photographic film. And we worked with the jet propulsion lab. 484 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:54,920 Speaker 1: Only way I got the job worked with the jet 485 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,120 Speaker 1: propulsion lab and went down to the village to play 486 00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:01,440 Speaker 1: chess one day and or one night with some friends 487 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:05,000 Speaker 1: in the business, and the table was gone where we 488 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:08,399 Speaker 1: usually played chess, and they were constructing a stage. I said, 489 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,719 Speaker 1: what's going on and he said, oh, we're we're gonna 490 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,040 Speaker 1: have entertainment here in the village, which was pretty new 491 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:17,080 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty nine. I mean there were poets that 492 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 1: stood up, but there were no stages. Uh. And I said, well, 493 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:24,279 Speaker 1: what do you have to do to entertain here? Remembering 494 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:28,000 Speaker 1: that I was, hey, a nascent rock and roll star. 495 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 1: He said, we'll come down an audition. So in my 496 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:34,800 Speaker 1: three piece Brooks Brothers suit, I went down to Greenwich 497 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:39,399 Speaker 1: Village and did the Mickey Mouse Song as a rock 498 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,759 Speaker 1: and roll tune and like m I c kuy you 499 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:47,560 Speaker 1: got it? Who's the leader? Do do wah of the bay? 500 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:52,719 Speaker 1: And anyway, they thought I was weird enough that they 501 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:56,160 Speaker 1: hired me. And one thing that to another. I always 502 00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:59,200 Speaker 1: loved Jonathan Winners, you know the sound effects. I was 503 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:02,160 Speaker 1: doing sound effects in high school. The moment I realized 504 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 1: I could abuse a microphone for fun and profit, I 505 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:09,520 Speaker 1: went for it. So I was doing traffic noises and 506 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:13,399 Speaker 1: the probably the most famous sound effect that I did 507 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:17,160 Speaker 1: in the village was the American Standard, which I would 508 00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,640 Speaker 1: introduce as a song and then do the flush of 509 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:23,359 Speaker 1: an of a toilet. Can you still do that? Yes? 510 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:25,120 Speaker 1: I can, but I don't know if this Mike will 511 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:27,879 Speaker 1: let me. It was, I did get the handle, I went, 512 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:49,520 Speaker 1: and then sure, very good, very good. Okay, So you're 513 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:51,760 Speaker 1: a jack of all trades down there in the village. 514 00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:53,680 Speaker 1: I was. I was, and I was a good I 515 00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:55,279 Speaker 1: think I was a good choice for that. I was 516 00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 1: a everything from a major d to a comedian, to 517 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:03,360 Speaker 1: a songwriter to the master of ceremonies. Because no, really, 518 00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:06,960 Speaker 1: no serious artist actually wanted to get up and introduce 519 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:09,520 Speaker 1: another artist. I mean, they might do it as a 520 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:13,080 Speaker 1: tale and to their performance, but they didn't want to 521 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,920 Speaker 1: do it as a constant. But I was. I was 522 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:21,080 Speaker 1: fine with that, um because of my uh, I don't know, 523 00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:27,520 Speaker 1: my predilection for wanting to make nice. So when Albert 524 00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:32,279 Speaker 1: Grossman came in and said, uh, have you ever thought 525 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,080 Speaker 1: of being in a group Albert Grossman going on to 526 00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:39,520 Speaker 1: become the manager of Dylan Jimmy of in Genesee and 527 00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:44,560 Speaker 1: Uh the band, Uh, I said, well, no, I got 528 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:47,279 Speaker 1: a few things I want to do my myself. Evidently, 529 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:50,960 Speaker 1: at the result of that uh meeting, he went back 530 00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:53,440 Speaker 1: to Peter and said, well, he said no, but I 531 00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:58,080 Speaker 1: think he will. I guess that's what made Albert what 532 00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:02,279 Speaker 1: Albert was, and he was right. The turning point came 533 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:08,160 Speaker 1: in Mary's apartment after about five months of rehearsal, where 534 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:12,520 Speaker 1: we had taken come up with about six tunes on 535 00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:17,360 Speaker 1: the subposition that maybe if Albert liked them, he'd we 536 00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:20,200 Speaker 1: could be in a group. And the words out of 537 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,880 Speaker 1: Albert were, will have you thought about a name for 538 00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,960 Speaker 1: the group? And yeah? And we said yeah, I'm even 539 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,880 Speaker 1: thinking about the Willows. And he said, well, how about 540 00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:32,920 Speaker 1: if Nold changes his name, we could we could call 541 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:36,120 Speaker 1: the group Peter, Paul and Mary. Well, I don't know 542 00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:38,960 Speaker 1: if you're familiar with a song called the ten th 543 00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:43,799 Speaker 1: year Old Man. I know you talk about the comedy routine. No, no, no, 544 00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:47,239 Speaker 1: I'm talking about the song of the folk song I 545 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,040 Speaker 1: was born about ten thousand years ago. Actually I don't 546 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:52,040 Speaker 1: know it. Okay, Well, I'll give you a little verse. 547 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:54,799 Speaker 1: And there's nothing in this world that I don't know. 548 00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:58,400 Speaker 1: Get Ready, here comes the alliteration. I saw Peter Paul 549 00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:02,279 Speaker 1: and os is playing ring around the roses, and I'll 550 00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,560 Speaker 1: look at the guy that says it isn't. So it's 551 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:08,560 Speaker 1: a cute song talks about the development of world history. 552 00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:12,560 Speaker 1: But the Peter Paul and was already there on our lips. 553 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:16,799 Speaker 1: But I recognized, oh my gosh, I am I'm not 554 00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,680 Speaker 1: going to be a carry Wizanowski. You know, no one 555 00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:23,759 Speaker 1: is Carrie Grant later or whatever. I'm I want to 556 00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:26,160 Speaker 1: hang onto my name. But then it occurred to me, 557 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:29,040 Speaker 1: I never did like my middle name of Carol. So 558 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,120 Speaker 1: I'll tell you what, Albert, I'll take it on as 559 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,200 Speaker 1: a middle name, not knowing that my middle name is 560 00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,680 Speaker 1: gonna take me on and take me out because from 561 00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,600 Speaker 1: there on there's a funny thing that happens when you 562 00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:43,080 Speaker 1: get interviewed. You know, somebody sits down and says, so 563 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,960 Speaker 1: tell me, Paul. Now they've already assumed something about you, 564 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:51,239 Speaker 1: which for most people would not be a handicap, but 565 00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:54,360 Speaker 1: for me, I wanted to defend the fact that Noel 566 00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:58,200 Speaker 1: was my first name. But it became immediately obvious that 567 00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:00,560 Speaker 1: the question they were asking me it was more important 568 00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:04,000 Speaker 1: then straightening them out as to what my first name was. 569 00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:09,480 Speaker 1: So Paul took me over for about ten or twelve years, 570 00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:14,919 Speaker 1: and then after the spiritual change and having my own 571 00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:18,160 Speaker 1: life one Peter Paulmary took seven years off for good 572 00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:22,160 Speaker 1: behavior between nineteen seventy and nineteen seventy eight. When I 573 00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:24,719 Speaker 1: came back to the group, I said, okay, let's use 574 00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:27,360 Speaker 1: my full name now, I'm no old Paul Stucky. However 575 00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:30,640 Speaker 1: you want to couch that that's who That's who I am. 576 00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:33,479 Speaker 1: That's that's fine, but I need to have my first 577 00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:38,759 Speaker 1: name happening. So okay, So okay, we jumped through a 578 00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:42,000 Speaker 1: few things. There, you're you're there, You change the name. 579 00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:47,080 Speaker 1: Tell us about the agreement for Albert to actually manage you, 580 00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:49,960 Speaker 1: how you selected the initial songs, how you got a 581 00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:55,160 Speaker 1: record deal? In what happened there? Wow? Okay, well down 582 00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,760 Speaker 1: down in the weeds a little bit more. Um. Albert 583 00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:02,359 Speaker 1: was handling Peter as a solo artist and felt that 584 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:07,319 Speaker 1: Peter's voice deserved a better setting. Uh, So he wanted 585 00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:11,480 Speaker 1: to create a group. The first member of the group 586 00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:16,080 Speaker 1: that he thought of was Mary Travers, whose picture was 587 00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:21,400 Speaker 1: hanging up on the wall. Peter said, who's that? Uh in? Uh? 588 00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:25,720 Speaker 1: Is he Young's Folklore Center in Greenwich Village? And Albert 589 00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:28,000 Speaker 1: looked up and knew who she was because she had 590 00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:33,400 Speaker 1: sung with the with Harry Bell Foddi singers and Uh 591 00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:37,200 Speaker 1: and Pete Seeger of the song Swappers, And he said, 592 00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:39,560 Speaker 1: that's Mary Travers. He said she'd be good if you 593 00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,959 Speaker 1: could get her to work, and we to this day. 594 00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:45,759 Speaker 1: Mary passed away in two thousand nine. But to this day, 595 00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,080 Speaker 1: Peter and I still don't know if what Albert meant 596 00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:51,120 Speaker 1: was if you can get her to focus, or if 597 00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:53,960 Speaker 1: he meant if you could because she has a small child, 598 00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:58,120 Speaker 1: she'd she would consider going into, you know, a career, 599 00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:02,279 Speaker 1: but none the us. She was already on board. I 600 00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:06,000 Speaker 1: had already declined working in a group because I had 601 00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:08,640 Speaker 1: some things I wanted to do by myself. And I 602 00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:11,480 Speaker 1: was commuting to Boston to sing up at Club forty 603 00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:16,919 Speaker 1: seven in between Joan Baez and Tom Rush appearances up there. Uh, 604 00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:20,239 Speaker 1: and Betty, my wife, had moved to Boston, so we 605 00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:23,560 Speaker 1: saw each other up there. Uh. That was another reason 606 00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,400 Speaker 1: for me to find a job up there. But anyway, 607 00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:30,320 Speaker 1: I'm I'm back in the apartment in New York. It's uh, 608 00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,920 Speaker 1: it's midweek. The phone rings. Then it's Mary on the phone, 609 00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:37,759 Speaker 1: and she says, I've got this guy over here who's 610 00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:39,320 Speaker 1: visiting and we're wondering if we can come over and 611 00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:45,280 Speaker 1: sing some songs. Well, you know, you put it like that. Oh, 612 00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:49,160 Speaker 1: so I had worked up a solo tune for Mary 613 00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:51,759 Speaker 1: to sing a Single Girl, which eventually made it on 614 00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:55,799 Speaker 1: a record. Actually, and a Single Girl is sort of 615 00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:59,760 Speaker 1: symbolic of the way that the tunes came to the trio. 616 00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:02,080 Speaker 1: In the beginning. I'd say at least half of our 617 00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:07,640 Speaker 1: repertoire was drawn on, uh, folk music's history. Whether they 618 00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:12,600 Speaker 1: were gospel tunes, whether they were tunes by Pete Seeger 619 00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:17,200 Speaker 1: or Woody Guthrie, or whether they were songs like the 620 00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:20,719 Speaker 1: Golden Vanity, you know that had been in the in 621 00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:26,480 Speaker 1: the folk ballads lexicon for you know, a hundred years. Uh, 622 00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:31,000 Speaker 1: but we could not agree. This is a wonderful moment. 623 00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:35,840 Speaker 1: We're in my apartment, Peter, Mary and I and we 624 00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:39,520 Speaker 1: know I know by this time that Peter's represented by 625 00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:43,319 Speaker 1: Peter represented by Albert, and we want to see if 626 00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:47,200 Speaker 1: we could sing together. And we're not related. We ain't 627 00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:51,400 Speaker 1: no everly brothers, so we don't have that familial vibe 628 00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:55,280 Speaker 1: that occurs when people are the same family and genetic 629 00:42:55,320 --> 00:43:00,400 Speaker 1: background make harmonies. So we're kind of fishing around. But 630 00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:02,680 Speaker 1: every song we come up with, everybody's got a different 631 00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,480 Speaker 1: version of Such was the way of folk music in 632 00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:11,640 Speaker 1: the late fifties early sixties until we landed on Mary 633 00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:17,479 Speaker 1: had a little lamb, Little lamb. So first Mary took 634 00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:20,480 Speaker 1: the melody, Peter and I sang harmony. Then Peter took 635 00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:24,080 Speaker 1: the melody, Mary and I sang harmony. Then I took 636 00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:26,719 Speaker 1: the melody Peter and Mary sang harmony. And no matter 637 00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:31,080 Speaker 1: which way we sliced or diced it, it sounded like 638 00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:36,320 Speaker 1: a group. Uh. There was a and I was just looking, 639 00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:39,799 Speaker 1: you know, it's funny. Uh. Timing is everything, And I 640 00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:43,760 Speaker 1: was just watching an old video of Mary singing. Uh. 641 00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:46,200 Speaker 1: The other day was a light one candle that Peter 642 00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:50,440 Speaker 1: had written. Uh, and we sat. We didn't have to 643 00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:53,960 Speaker 1: modulate for the woman to sing, you know, we didn't 644 00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:56,520 Speaker 1: have to change to another key as sometimes it's often 645 00:43:56,600 --> 00:44:00,560 Speaker 1: done for choruses. Mary's vocal range was quite white, as 646 00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:03,480 Speaker 1: was mine, as was Peters, so we were able to 647 00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:07,799 Speaker 1: make a sound that. Uh. We would trade leads all 648 00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:12,839 Speaker 1: the time. We I think that was and and isn't 649 00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:16,360 Speaker 1: it curious in retrospect talking about walking in through the 650 00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:19,480 Speaker 1: door expecting one thing and leaving with another. That we 651 00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:24,839 Speaker 1: were named Peter, Paul and Mary, which meant the three 652 00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:30,319 Speaker 1: individuals who lent their voices to each other for performances 653 00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:33,839 Speaker 1: also had these moments in the sun where they would 654 00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:38,000 Speaker 1: come out and do solo performances. Peter would sing two songs, 655 00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:40,759 Speaker 1: bring me out. I would do some comedy, sing a song. 656 00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:43,520 Speaker 1: I'd bring Mary out. She douced two songs. Then the 657 00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:46,600 Speaker 1: group would reassemble to finish the concert. So there was 658 00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:52,319 Speaker 1: a kind of continuity, and it showed up not only 659 00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:56,080 Speaker 1: in as the group went on, not only in song selection, 660 00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:59,480 Speaker 1: but the way that our harmonies came together. They were 661 00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:04,840 Speaker 1: not additional harmonies, that is to say, we could sing uh, 662 00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:08,120 Speaker 1: pronouncing the words at the same time. But we more 663 00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:12,279 Speaker 1: and more began to fall into the gospel kind of 664 00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:15,080 Speaker 1: shout and answer, you know, where one would sing a 665 00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:19,840 Speaker 1: lead and we Mary and I might answer Peter or 666 00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:27,040 Speaker 1: Peter was beautiful at creating alternative counterabilodies. Sometimes it got 667 00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:28,919 Speaker 1: to the point where we would write a whole other 668 00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:32,080 Speaker 1: song and then lay that in against a traditional song. 669 00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:37,920 Speaker 1: So are we We kept each other interested in what 670 00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:41,560 Speaker 1: we were doing by virtue of bringing our individual choices 671 00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:47,160 Speaker 1: and surprising each other with our songs selections. And then 672 00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:51,680 Speaker 1: Peter and I as the mid sixties came, began to 673 00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:55,960 Speaker 1: create more and more original material. So that's okay. Yeah. 674 00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:59,360 Speaker 1: Would would the group have been as successful if Albert 675 00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:04,239 Speaker 1: was not the manager? Probably not. Uh. Albert had a 676 00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:10,279 Speaker 1: philosophy that it was quite righteous in nature. Uh. It 677 00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:14,719 Speaker 1: was a little bit of concealment because Albert was a 678 00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:20,080 Speaker 1: great Uh. Albert had great taste, and so he knew 679 00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:23,200 Speaker 1: the value of things before other people could see the 680 00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:27,120 Speaker 1: value of things. So when he went to Warner Brothers, 681 00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:32,040 Speaker 1: for instance, uh, who were at that point there own 682 00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:34,840 Speaker 1: Warner Brothers Records was housed in a closet hut on 683 00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:39,200 Speaker 1: the Burbank lots, the film lots, and I think they 684 00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:46,719 Speaker 1: had maybe Bill Cosby and uh uh Bob Newhart. That 685 00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:49,200 Speaker 1: was about it. Oh, and they had the ever least 686 00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:53,200 Speaker 1: I think. But they were looking for new material. But 687 00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:57,520 Speaker 1: they weren't willing to go Uh. They weren't willing to 688 00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:02,680 Speaker 1: let the artist control their own material. They wanted to 689 00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:05,560 Speaker 1: dictate what the songs were. They wanted to assign a producer. 690 00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:07,120 Speaker 1: Albert said, no, no no, no, no, I'm gonna do that. 691 00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:09,720 Speaker 1: I'll tell you what, though, you give us a single 692 00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:12,680 Speaker 1: record deal, just one record. We don't need three records. 693 00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:14,600 Speaker 1: You know, we're not going to sign a long deal. 694 00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:17,520 Speaker 1: Just give us one record and the right to do 695 00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:20,200 Speaker 1: whatever we want and the budget for that, and then 696 00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:25,200 Speaker 1: we'll see where it goes from there. Help needless to say, 697 00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:27,960 Speaker 1: the first album went through the roof. Peter, Paul and 698 00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:31,640 Speaker 1: Mary were established. We had Lemon Tree, we had if 699 00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:37,640 Speaker 1: I had a hammer the end. The music suited the times. 700 00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:41,760 Speaker 1: But to put a caper on the description of Albert, 701 00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:47,120 Speaker 1: his capacity to recognize the value of what he had 702 00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:51,120 Speaker 1: to bargain with was kind of an invisible leverage. That 703 00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:54,320 Speaker 1: is to say, he would go to a promoter, uh 704 00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:57,760 Speaker 1: and say we would like to do the London Palladium, 705 00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:02,120 Speaker 1: or we would like to do Constitution Hall in Washington, 706 00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:06,000 Speaker 1: d C. And the promoters say, well, uh, you know 707 00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:11,040 Speaker 1: I can't I can't give you ten dollar guarantee. And 708 00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:13,880 Speaker 1: I would say, oh, we don't want to guarantee, we 709 00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:19,800 Speaker 1: just want of the ticket sales. So he was always 710 00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:23,359 Speaker 1: on the comp not on the take. So he got 711 00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:26,400 Speaker 1: a reputation for being a hard nosed businessman, but actually 712 00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:29,799 Speaker 1: he just had great faith in what he thought was 713 00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:35,520 Speaker 1: a coming attraction. So you know, an eight percent turned 714 00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:37,640 Speaker 1: out to be twenty four tho dollars who needed the 715 00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:41,239 Speaker 1: guarantee and that you know, I'm just making those numbers up, 716 00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:44,480 Speaker 1: but relatively you understand what I'm saying. He was able 717 00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:47,319 Speaker 1: to negotiate great terms for us no matter where we went, 718 00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:49,320 Speaker 1: and he was our manager for the first ten eleven 719 00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:52,279 Speaker 1: years of our lives. And probably the greatest coup that 720 00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:58,600 Speaker 1: he pulled off was when the trio recorded their individual 721 00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:03,200 Speaker 1: solo albums in the early evanies. He negotiated that those records, 722 00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:08,600 Speaker 1: the those tapes, those master tapes, would revert to the 723 00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:13,600 Speaker 1: artists as their property, that Warner Brothers was only leasing them, 724 00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:19,000 Speaker 1: and so both Peter, Mary and myself had those records 725 00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:23,480 Speaker 1: as our own property. They came back to us. Um. Yeah, 726 00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:28,640 Speaker 1: Albert was pretty pretty amazing guy. And what it's it's 727 00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:39,920 Speaker 1: very ironic being the cuisine, being the culinary artiste. Uh, 728 00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:42,600 Speaker 1: you know, he was really he really understood good food, 729 00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:45,560 Speaker 1: had a restaurant and would's not called the Bear. And 730 00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:49,239 Speaker 1: how ironic that he should die die on an airplane 731 00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:53,160 Speaker 1: headed for London. Uh. And the first question that most 732 00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:58,719 Speaker 1: people had was before or after the meal. He was 733 00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:03,440 Speaker 1: a delightful man. Uh, with a great giggle. That's what 734 00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:05,920 Speaker 1: I remember most about how he used to go. He 735 00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:13,480 Speaker 1: would never laugh out loud, he would go yeah, okay. Now, 736 00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:18,719 Speaker 1: Dylan ultimately fell out with him over money. Uh do 737 00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:22,439 Speaker 1: you I would ask a what percentage did he take in? Uh? 738 00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:25,040 Speaker 1: Do you feel comfortable with the deal? And how things 739 00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:29,879 Speaker 1: the financial accountings? Well? For us? Mind you, Albert put 740 00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:33,320 Speaker 1: us together. So the fact that he, in his office 741 00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:38,280 Speaker 1: took it was absolutely proper as far as we were concerned. 742 00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:41,520 Speaker 1: Not only that the success was of the group was 743 00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:45,560 Speaker 1: so large and so immediate that uh, you know, I 744 00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:50,880 Speaker 1: think we would have had to develop some kind of 745 00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:54,840 Speaker 1: animosity much much later, you know, maybe when the money 746 00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:58,400 Speaker 1: was running out, or or our career tends turned south, 747 00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:03,000 Speaker 1: which it never did. Um. We did leave Albert after 748 00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:05,520 Speaker 1: the time off for good behavior, but but he had 749 00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:07,640 Speaker 1: so many other irons in the fire by that time, 750 00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:11,320 Speaker 1: he really didn't need us anymore. And I think Bobby's 751 00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:15,520 Speaker 1: falling out with Albert was more question of the publishing 752 00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:22,880 Speaker 1: than it was how Albert was handling his career. Uh yeah, okay, 753 00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:25,160 Speaker 1: So how did you decide to do The first hit 754 00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:26,840 Speaker 1: was if I Had a Hammer? So, how did you 755 00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:29,279 Speaker 1: decide to do that? No? No, No, first hit was 756 00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:35,839 Speaker 1: Lemon Try. Lemon Try was on. It was just on 757 00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:41,439 Speaker 1: the Peter Polymery album and Buck Herron Young DJ out 758 00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:45,080 Speaker 1: of Oakland. Um, I can't remember the KF e W 759 00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:48,120 Speaker 1: k B E GO. I don't know what the radio 760 00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:52,719 Speaker 1: station was. Anyway, he pulled it off, made it the 761 00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:56,879 Speaker 1: single of the week or something. A couple of other 762 00:51:56,960 --> 00:51:59,080 Speaker 1: radio stations picked up on it, and you know, the 763 00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:01,920 Speaker 1: charts were into meant then, I mean Billboard and cash 764 00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:06,120 Speaker 1: Box they were the only charts around maybe Bill Gavin's Report. Uh. 765 00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:09,319 Speaker 1: And so people would see what Lemon Try? What is that? 766 00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:11,440 Speaker 1: Who are these people? Give me? Give me that album, 767 00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:14,520 Speaker 1: let me hear that. And so we went up to 768 00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:18,840 Speaker 1: we were top thirty with Lemon Try. Well, you know, 769 00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:24,320 Speaker 1: fame acceptance is quite often built on a previous record, 770 00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:29,160 Speaker 1: and certainly it was in this case. And though Lemonry 771 00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:34,760 Speaker 1: was not a political statement, it's certainly set up the 772 00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:38,560 Speaker 1: visibility of the group, so that in nineteen sixty two 773 00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:45,440 Speaker 1: sixty three, when the foment about civil rights was happening, Uh, 774 00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:49,600 Speaker 1: if I Had a Hammer was uh, you know, became 775 00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:55,000 Speaker 1: a calling card. Uh. It's timing was expressive of a 776 00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:58,560 Speaker 1: lot of the sentiment that was felt across the country. 777 00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:03,840 Speaker 1: And you know, we were we were the right people 778 00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:07,719 Speaker 1: at the right time, with the right message and following 779 00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:12,360 Speaker 1: that to be able to because of Albert's handling of 780 00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:18,440 Speaker 1: Dylan and the opportunity to hear Dylan's tunes before anybody 781 00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:21,640 Speaker 1: else heard them. When we heard Don't Think Twice and 782 00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:24,359 Speaker 1: Blowing in the Wind one night backstage at the Gate 783 00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:26,960 Speaker 1: of Horne in Chicago, we wanted to do both the 784 00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:30,440 Speaker 1: tune and as you well know, Blowing in the Wind 785 00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:35,560 Speaker 1: not only became number two hit, uh, following If I 786 00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:38,080 Speaker 1: Had a Hammer, but also has gone on to become 787 00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:41,319 Speaker 1: a classic done by you know, tons of performers and 788 00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:46,560 Speaker 1: always has a certain residence among uh those people who 789 00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:51,960 Speaker 1: still fight for human rights world around. Okay, so when 790 00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:54,279 Speaker 1: you say you heard it backstage on an ascetator, was 791 00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:59,239 Speaker 1: what was going on? Hunt? No on an estate? Yeah. Now, 792 00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:01,839 Speaker 1: for those people don't know what an ascetate is, you 793 00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:07,520 Speaker 1: know that's like a vinyl gone early. Uh. It requires 794 00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:12,200 Speaker 1: a needle on cutting a groove. Uh. And as the 795 00:54:12,239 --> 00:54:15,640 Speaker 1: sound comes out the groove move sideways and up and down, 796 00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:19,040 Speaker 1: lateral and vertical. And then when you put a needle 797 00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:21,879 Speaker 1: on that play back through an amplified process, you get 798 00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:25,120 Speaker 1: you get what was recorded. So, yes, it was an 799 00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:29,120 Speaker 1: ascetate played on a turntable at the bar and at 800 00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:35,799 Speaker 1: the gate of Horn. But Albert was managing Dylan. So 801 00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:39,200 Speaker 1: was it just a matter of him, uh feeding you 802 00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:43,480 Speaker 1: these songs or was it a whole cabal with Albert 803 00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:45,600 Speaker 1: and his acts that you were in it together and 804 00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:47,439 Speaker 1: you had a relationship with Dylan, you were the same 805 00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:51,880 Speaker 1: scene or were you really in different verticals? That's interesting. 806 00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:57,160 Speaker 1: You probably believe a lot of other conspiracy theories to write. 807 00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:02,000 Speaker 1: Believe me on the opposite of a conspiracy. Okay, well, no, 808 00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:05,759 Speaker 1: there was no conspiracy involved. There was just a you know, 809 00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:10,280 Speaker 1: a parallel of themes, you know, I mean, like I said, 810 00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:14,399 Speaker 1: these are the times in which we lived. And uh, 811 00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:17,160 Speaker 1: you know, my first contact with Bobby as a passing 812 00:55:17,719 --> 00:55:22,280 Speaker 1: artist was when I was master of ceremonies in Greenwich 813 00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:24,560 Speaker 1: Village and Bobby came in to do a set and 814 00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:29,640 Speaker 1: he at that time the first time through the gaslight. Uh, 815 00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:32,720 Speaker 1: he sang mostly, Uh, what do he got three tunes 816 00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:35,120 Speaker 1: and he had a voice very much that suited what 817 00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:37,960 Speaker 1: he got three tunes, and then he went away to 818 00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:40,360 Speaker 1: go on tour I think I think it was in 819 00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:42,920 Speaker 1: New Jersey, and he came back maybe a couple of 820 00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:47,040 Speaker 1: months later and asked if he could do a set, 821 00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:49,800 Speaker 1: and I, kind of being in charge of the entertainment, 822 00:55:49,840 --> 00:55:52,120 Speaker 1: I said yeah, sure of course, and he got up 823 00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:57,240 Speaker 1: on stage and he did a song about, uh, Buffalo, 824 00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:02,680 Speaker 1: I can't remember what not Buffalo writers Buffalo, I don't know. 825 00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:05,280 Speaker 1: There's a song about a guy that gets a job 826 00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:09,439 Speaker 1: out in the west, uh, skinning buffalo, buffalo skinner. That's 827 00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:14,040 Speaker 1: what it was. Uh. But these were totally different lyrics. 828 00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:17,680 Speaker 1: The original lyric was about how the buffalo skinner goes 829 00:56:17,719 --> 00:56:21,879 Speaker 1: to get paid and they give him skins and he says, well, 830 00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:24,319 Speaker 1: I can't do anything with this. I gotta eat. And 831 00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:26,200 Speaker 1: the guy says, take it to the general store and 832 00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:29,400 Speaker 1: trade in the skins and he'll give you the food. Oh. 833 00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:32,880 Speaker 1: So that's this is told to a plaintive three chord 834 00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:37,400 Speaker 1: folk melody, right, that's the traditional tune. Dylan comes back 835 00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:41,400 Speaker 1: from two months in New Jersey singing at a folk 836 00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:46,880 Speaker 1: club and he starts playing the chords behind Buffalo Skinner, 837 00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:50,640 Speaker 1: only he's talking about a guy that's gone to work 838 00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:53,880 Speaker 1: at this chess folk club in New Jersey. That's what 839 00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:56,840 Speaker 1: the lyric is about, and the fact that when he 840 00:56:56,880 --> 00:56:59,960 Speaker 1: comes to get his payroll, the the owner of the 841 00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:04,120 Speaker 1: of the chess club, gives him a chess set instead 842 00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:06,759 Speaker 1: of money. And he says, what am I supposed to 843 00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:09,080 Speaker 1: do with this? And he says, take it to the bartender. 844 00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:12,239 Speaker 1: So he goes to the bar and he's orders a 845 00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:14,840 Speaker 1: beer and he pays him mcking and gets two ponds 846 00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:20,240 Speaker 1: on a rook and return. Now the moment I saw that, 847 00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:23,080 Speaker 1: you know, um, And that was a revelation to me. 848 00:57:23,200 --> 00:57:27,760 Speaker 1: Here was somebody who understood in a more significant level 849 00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:31,240 Speaker 1: the abstract of folk music, that it had the capacity 850 00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:34,560 Speaker 1: to inform tell a story, but that it was timeless, 851 00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:41,480 Speaker 1: that the that the arrangement was conceivably just an opportunity 852 00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:46,920 Speaker 1: to voice more contemporary concerns. So two days later, I 853 00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:49,480 Speaker 1: don't know if you remember, but a ferry runs a 854 00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:53,440 Speaker 1: ground in New York City, in New York Harbor in 855 00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:57,360 Speaker 1: the Hudson River. Because counterfeit tickets were printed for a 856 00:57:57,360 --> 00:58:01,560 Speaker 1: bare mountain picnic, and too many people got on board 857 00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:04,600 Speaker 1: the ship. They refused to believe that they were counterfeit, 858 00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:07,880 Speaker 1: and the ship sank. And the irony of that was 859 00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:10,560 Speaker 1: not lost on the person who wrote the news article. 860 00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:14,160 Speaker 1: And I handed the article to Dylan, who was there 861 00:58:14,160 --> 00:58:17,440 Speaker 1: for the weekend. The next night he came in and 862 00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:22,840 Speaker 1: does the talking Bear Mountain Picnic Massacre blues. So two 863 00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:27,680 Speaker 1: days later or thereabouts, I say to Albert, you gotta 864 00:58:27,720 --> 00:58:29,920 Speaker 1: come down and hear this guy. He is a genius. 865 00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:34,520 Speaker 1: So that was Albert's I think, first contact with Dylan, 866 00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:37,800 Speaker 1: our first awareness of Dylan. But they were a great couple. 867 00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:41,000 Speaker 1: I mean, Dylan moved right into Woodstock and what a 868 00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:46,240 Speaker 1: great synergy between him and Robbie and and uh, you 869 00:58:46,280 --> 00:58:49,800 Speaker 1: know the band. I mean, what a great, great group 870 00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:52,840 Speaker 1: of musicians and thinkers. And the Basement tapes are just 871 00:58:53,080 --> 00:58:58,600 Speaker 1: so lovely. Um and you know, an inspiration once again 872 00:58:59,520 --> 00:59:04,400 Speaker 1: for being authentic. You know, find find the best way 873 00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:07,760 Speaker 1: in your own voice to speak to that which concerns you, 874 00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:10,600 Speaker 1: and you'll include a lot of people, because I think 875 00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:14,760 Speaker 1: people can they just sense the truth. It's like what 876 00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:24,160 Speaker 1: Richard Nixon was not. Okay, let's go back to that era. 877 00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:26,880 Speaker 1: I'm old enough to be aware. Most people only read 878 00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:30,760 Speaker 1: about it in books. But prior to the Beatles, there 879 00:59:30,880 --> 00:59:33,480 Speaker 1: was a huge folk scene, even to the point there 880 00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:37,960 Speaker 1: was a TV show puting in You've You've referenced the 881 00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:41,040 Speaker 1: fact that there was a scene in Greenwich Village once 882 00:59:41,080 --> 00:59:44,600 Speaker 1: again legendary, but it was happening when most people were 883 00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:48,840 Speaker 1: not aware. Needless to say, with your success, you were 884 00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:52,960 Speaker 1: kings and queen of that scene. What was it like 885 00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:55,920 Speaker 1: in the folk world at that time, Well, don't forget 886 00:59:56,000 --> 01:00:00,320 Speaker 1: speaking of kings, the King has done trio who were 887 01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:03,200 Speaker 1: out the door early maybe two years prior to us, 888 01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:06,439 Speaker 1: uh with folk music. But it was kind of good 889 01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:10,720 Speaker 1: time folk music. It was, you know, let's all get 890 01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:14,360 Speaker 1: together and have a u a great time singing together. 891 01:00:14,800 --> 01:00:16,880 Speaker 1: Um to have a couple of years, let's have a party, 892 01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:21,800 Speaker 1: let's uh sing uh Waltz Matilda, let's sing you know 893 01:00:22,080 --> 01:00:25,200 Speaker 1: songs that we all know. Well that was that was good. 894 01:00:25,240 --> 01:00:27,240 Speaker 1: But this was a different kind of music, and so 895 01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:31,600 Speaker 1: the folks scenes sort of changed, bent in that direction 896 01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:38,360 Speaker 1: and augured uh for a a more concerned lyric in 897 01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:42,720 Speaker 1: general that in now the folks scene itself. Okay, I 898 01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:46,120 Speaker 1: mean there was the Kingston's. There was John Stewart, who 899 01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:50,200 Speaker 1: brought arguably to the Kingston's a kind of political conscience 900 01:00:50,280 --> 01:00:54,919 Speaker 1: that they hadn't had since Dave Guard left the group. Um, 901 01:00:55,600 --> 01:01:01,680 Speaker 1: there was the Brandywine Singers. There was you know, uh 902 01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:05,840 Speaker 1: the Brothers Four. There were uh, you know, Entrudy. And 903 01:01:05,880 --> 01:01:08,320 Speaker 1: then there were the soloists. I mean there was Joan An, 904 01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:13,840 Speaker 1: there was Judy Collins, there was um, you know, I 905 01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:21,840 Speaker 1: the mind cannot really I can't fully embrace the breadth. Uh. 906 01:01:21,880 --> 01:01:25,960 Speaker 1: It was just such a wide variety of artists who 907 01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:33,200 Speaker 1: little by little made there made their statements through the 908 01:01:33,280 --> 01:01:36,960 Speaker 1: medium of folk music, and folk music began to have 909 01:01:37,120 --> 01:01:42,280 Speaker 1: its effect on pop music because here were here were DJs. 910 01:01:42,360 --> 01:01:44,640 Speaker 1: You know, they were used to playing lush ballads by 911 01:01:44,880 --> 01:01:48,880 Speaker 1: Bert Backrack, and now they were playing a guitar and 912 01:01:49,280 --> 01:01:52,120 Speaker 1: harmonica and a guy singing what is this? But you know, 913 01:01:52,200 --> 01:01:55,400 Speaker 1: where is the Where's the luster? Where's the glamour? Where's 914 01:01:55,960 --> 01:02:03,040 Speaker 1: And eventually that desire for a more uh how shall 915 01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:07,080 Speaker 1: I say, a more arresting sound began to manifest itself 916 01:02:07,120 --> 01:02:12,320 Speaker 1: in rock and roll and the lyrics subsequently, we're uh 917 01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:15,760 Speaker 1: inspired in rock and roll? You know I can't get 918 01:02:15,800 --> 01:02:19,800 Speaker 1: no satisfaction in a sense was a far cry from 919 01:02:20,040 --> 01:02:24,360 Speaker 1: what the world needs now is love sweet love. Yeah. So, 920 01:02:25,120 --> 01:02:30,160 Speaker 1: folk music's impact on pop music in the mid sixties 921 01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:35,280 Speaker 1: triggered the release of a variety. To me, one of 922 01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:41,400 Speaker 1: the main uh, main changes occurred when James Taylor UH 923 01:02:41,680 --> 01:02:45,600 Speaker 1: came on the scene because his ability to blend a 924 01:02:46,200 --> 01:02:51,320 Speaker 1: beautifully played acoustic guitar with piano drums. UH kind of 925 01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:54,439 Speaker 1: was the middle ground, you know, once again we could 926 01:02:54,480 --> 01:02:59,440 Speaker 1: have pretty music that spoke to very personal relations, that 927 01:02:59,600 --> 01:03:03,520 Speaker 1: had a broader conscience to it. And then of course 928 01:03:03,560 --> 01:03:07,920 Speaker 1: the Beatles arrived with Please Please Me, and the Stones continued, 929 01:03:08,240 --> 01:03:12,959 Speaker 1: and then we were into the Loving Spoonful and even 930 01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:15,280 Speaker 1: to this day, as a matter of fact, I'm holding 931 01:03:15,360 --> 01:03:17,960 Speaker 1: up your people can't see it, but I'm holding up 932 01:03:18,200 --> 01:03:22,120 Speaker 1: an album that says, hope rises. This is a this 933 01:03:22,200 --> 01:03:28,520 Speaker 1: is a album that contains fifteen new artists because a 934 01:03:28,560 --> 01:03:31,760 Speaker 1: lot of people uh. And I'm sure it's something that 935 01:03:31,800 --> 01:03:35,120 Speaker 1: you will ask later in this interview. Where can we 936 01:03:35,160 --> 01:03:39,600 Speaker 1: hear music that pertains to the times and the crises 937 01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:43,920 Speaker 1: in which we live now? And that music is there, 938 01:03:43,960 --> 01:03:49,720 Speaker 1: but the niche for their for its expression as narrowed considerably. 939 01:03:49,760 --> 01:03:54,600 Speaker 1: I mean, there are many slices of opportunity now and 940 01:03:54,760 --> 01:03:59,520 Speaker 1: what Music to Life does has done is to sponsor 941 01:04:00,280 --> 01:04:04,400 Speaker 1: these artists in their separate communities and to encourage them 942 01:04:04,440 --> 01:04:07,120 Speaker 1: to record and to use music as part of the 943 01:04:07,200 --> 01:04:10,919 Speaker 1: everyday outreach to their communities. But we'll talk about that later. 944 01:04:11,720 --> 01:04:15,960 Speaker 1: Um anyway, mhm. The fact that I brought it up 945 01:04:16,800 --> 01:04:21,600 Speaker 1: is part of the awareness that styles of music have 946 01:04:21,840 --> 01:04:26,120 Speaker 1: less to do with the success of the lyric than 947 01:04:26,520 --> 01:04:29,160 Speaker 1: they used to. Uh. You know, there was a time 948 01:04:29,200 --> 01:04:32,120 Speaker 1: when country and Western was hillbilly. You know, there was 949 01:04:32,160 --> 01:04:35,360 Speaker 1: a time when hip hop and rap was nothing but anger. 950 01:04:36,040 --> 01:04:39,760 Speaker 1: There was a time, you know when bossa Nova was 951 01:04:40,640 --> 01:04:46,200 Speaker 1: a lush rather than pointed. Uh So, these changes I 952 01:04:46,240 --> 01:04:48,720 Speaker 1: think came about to a large part because they were 953 01:04:48,800 --> 01:04:55,680 Speaker 1: encouraged by folk musics encouragement to speak to those events 954 01:04:55,720 --> 01:05:00,160 Speaker 1: that we share as a world community. But you know, 955 01:05:00,240 --> 01:05:02,440 Speaker 1: from the outside, not being a maker of this music, 956 01:05:02,520 --> 01:05:05,640 Speaker 1: what do I know, everyone wherever you went there was 957 01:05:05,640 --> 01:05:08,120 Speaker 1: a guitar and you sang these songs. They were sung 958 01:05:08,160 --> 01:05:11,960 Speaker 1: at summer camps, etcetera. And in addition, there was a 959 01:05:11,960 --> 01:05:14,360 Speaker 1: lot of you know, even when Kennedy was there. There 960 01:05:14,360 --> 01:05:18,000 Speaker 1: were a lot of political issues, certainly starting with what 961 01:05:18,080 --> 01:05:21,560 Speaker 1: was going on in Cuba. It seemed from the outside 962 01:05:22,120 --> 01:05:25,720 Speaker 1: that the folk artists had their finger on the pulse 963 01:05:25,880 --> 01:05:30,040 Speaker 1: and we're singing to move sentiment in a certain direction. 964 01:05:30,120 --> 01:05:33,080 Speaker 1: Did it feel like that on the inside? Yeah, I 965 01:05:33,080 --> 01:05:36,040 Speaker 1: mean by nineteen sixty three for sure. Standing on the 966 01:05:36,040 --> 01:05:40,400 Speaker 1: steps of the Lincoln Memorial with the Dr. King, I've 967 01:05:40,440 --> 01:05:42,560 Speaker 1: referred to it many times. You know. Mary turned to 968 01:05:42,600 --> 01:05:47,200 Speaker 1: Peter and said, Hope is palpable. Okay, that begs the question. 969 01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:52,600 Speaker 1: I gotta say, although Obama ran on Hope you know 970 01:05:53,160 --> 01:05:57,360 Speaker 1: a number of years ago, two thousand and eight, as 971 01:05:57,400 --> 01:06:00,240 Speaker 1: someone who's seen it seen at all, Contract asked, I 972 01:06:00,240 --> 01:06:02,440 Speaker 1: don't want to sound like a college question. Contrast and 973 01:06:02,520 --> 01:06:07,360 Speaker 1: compare the vibe in the American mentality then as opposed 974 01:06:07,360 --> 01:06:11,280 Speaker 1: to today. I think there was some resistance to the 975 01:06:11,360 --> 01:06:17,680 Speaker 1: human rights movement, particularly as it UH presented itself in 976 01:06:17,760 --> 01:06:23,600 Speaker 1: the UH as a challenge to the white racists in 977 01:06:23,680 --> 01:06:29,200 Speaker 1: the South UH and that it wasn't. But the overall 978 01:06:29,600 --> 01:06:35,360 Speaker 1: effectiveness of that movement, of the civil rights movement was 979 01:06:35,440 --> 01:06:40,440 Speaker 1: that it expressed a desire for America to get righteous, Uh, 980 01:06:40,480 --> 01:06:45,200 Speaker 1: to be inclusive, as its history has indicated. It was 981 01:06:46,080 --> 01:06:49,640 Speaker 1: give me retired, your poor, your masses yearning to be free. 982 01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:55,360 Speaker 1: This was this was a chance to go on public 983 01:06:55,400 --> 01:07:04,960 Speaker 1: record as the encouragement, and that then morphed into Oh, 984 01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:08,400 Speaker 1: I see we can as a large group get together 985 01:07:09,320 --> 01:07:14,280 Speaker 1: and in if not influence people's opinions, we can at 986 01:07:14,360 --> 01:07:20,360 Speaker 1: least express our own in numbers that would encourage them 987 01:07:20,400 --> 01:07:24,320 Speaker 1: to discover what the true facts behind this are. And 988 01:07:24,560 --> 01:07:30,840 Speaker 1: so that's when it morphed into the the anti war movement. Uh. 989 01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:35,120 Speaker 1: It was a natural chain of events, I think, uh 990 01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:38,920 Speaker 1: in a sense empowered large groups of people to make statements, 991 01:07:39,360 --> 01:07:41,880 Speaker 1: and the music was a thread that ran through all 992 01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:48,080 Speaker 1: of that. Okay, but today, do you believe that we 993 01:07:48,120 --> 01:07:50,760 Speaker 1: are off course? Or we can only self correct and 994 01:07:50,880 --> 01:08:00,600 Speaker 1: have hope? And where is music's place in today's consciousness? Well, 995 01:08:00,680 --> 01:08:03,160 Speaker 1: you know you're talking to Mr Hopeful here. I mean, 996 01:08:03,400 --> 01:08:08,200 Speaker 1: I I am loathed to despair. I mean, I see 997 01:08:08,200 --> 01:08:14,080 Speaker 1: inequities still, but I know that in my own life, uh, 998 01:08:15,000 --> 01:08:17,760 Speaker 1: I've seen change. So I can't help but feel that 999 01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:20,920 Speaker 1: everybody's life has the possibility to change. And I know 1000 01:08:21,040 --> 01:08:27,000 Speaker 1: that we're at longer heads uh conceptually with many of 1001 01:08:27,040 --> 01:08:33,360 Speaker 1: the people who back Donald Trump. Oh, but I can't 1002 01:08:33,360 --> 01:08:37,759 Speaker 1: help but feel that when we discover the larger issue, 1003 01:08:38,760 --> 01:08:42,679 Speaker 1: and that is one of respect and compassion, we will 1004 01:08:42,800 --> 01:08:51,080 Speaker 1: ultimately be joined again. Now, you can't legislate compassion, You 1005 01:08:51,120 --> 01:08:55,799 Speaker 1: can only invite it by being compassionate yourself. You can't 1006 01:08:55,960 --> 01:09:00,920 Speaker 1: legislate forgiveness. But you know, taking a page of Mandela's 1007 01:09:01,320 --> 01:09:06,639 Speaker 1: handling of APARTHEIDU, you can have public forums where people 1008 01:09:07,040 --> 01:09:12,719 Speaker 1: voice their concerns and are, if not assuaged, at least 1009 01:09:12,880 --> 01:09:19,080 Speaker 1: aware that reconciliation is possible. Because every human life has value. 1010 01:09:19,960 --> 01:09:25,599 Speaker 1: So the the hope that we will begin to consider 1011 01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:38,000 Speaker 1: the larger inspiration for the human uh, for the human experience. Ah, 1012 01:09:38,160 --> 01:09:42,320 Speaker 1: it goes on. Um. That's why you know the song 1013 01:09:42,400 --> 01:09:45,040 Speaker 1: I sang to you before about love with the capital L. 1014 01:09:45,720 --> 01:09:50,320 Speaker 1: That's that is the awareness. Uh. Sure the atheists will 1015 01:09:50,360 --> 01:09:53,920 Speaker 1: not accept the G word, you know, but if they've 1016 01:09:53,960 --> 01:09:56,880 Speaker 1: ever been in love, then they have an inkling of 1017 01:09:56,920 --> 01:10:01,439 Speaker 1: what it is that can draw us together. And that 1018 01:10:01,680 --> 01:10:07,920 Speaker 1: means that you know, the better angels in us UH 1019 01:10:08,200 --> 01:10:13,680 Speaker 1: begins to embrace and include our fellow human beings. I 1020 01:10:13,720 --> 01:10:16,280 Speaker 1: think town halls. You know, actually, they're going to become 1021 01:10:16,439 --> 01:10:20,680 Speaker 1: a very important aspect because on a local level, they 1022 01:10:20,680 --> 01:10:26,000 Speaker 1: will allow us to voice concerns that relate directly to 1023 01:10:26,040 --> 01:10:28,759 Speaker 1: our lives, and then we're gonna be able to translate 1024 01:10:28,800 --> 01:10:33,000 Speaker 1: that into a larger picture. Okay, let's go back to 1025 01:10:33,000 --> 01:10:36,320 Speaker 1: the six season our timeline. The Beatles come along, they 1026 01:10:36,360 --> 01:10:40,120 Speaker 1: wipe out a zillion acts, very few sustain. Okay, the 1027 01:10:40,200 --> 01:10:44,760 Speaker 1: Beach Boys sustained, the four seasons sustained, but ultimately Peter 1028 01:10:44,880 --> 01:10:47,880 Speaker 1: Paul Mary end up having a couple of gigantic kits. 1029 01:10:48,600 --> 01:10:51,080 Speaker 1: One is I dig rock and roll music? Can you 1030 01:10:51,120 --> 01:10:54,800 Speaker 1: tell us the story of that? Yeah, Yeah, I got 1031 01:10:54,880 --> 01:10:56,800 Speaker 1: a I got a great friend. I think I mentioned 1032 01:10:56,880 --> 01:11:00,880 Speaker 1: him earlier, Jim Mason, who reduced a couple of things 1033 01:11:00,880 --> 01:11:05,360 Speaker 1: for Poco. I was introduced to him by Dave Dixon, 1034 01:11:06,120 --> 01:11:09,759 Speaker 1: who was the voice of Norman Normal in a cartoon 1035 01:11:09,800 --> 01:11:14,599 Speaker 1: that I did for Warner Brothers. Um, Jim Mason came in, 1036 01:11:15,560 --> 01:11:18,120 Speaker 1: sat down in the living room of uh, Dave Dixon's 1037 01:11:18,160 --> 01:11:21,360 Speaker 1: living room where we used to in New York City 1038 01:11:21,360 --> 01:11:24,880 Speaker 1: on Jane Street, and Uh, he said, I got a 1039 01:11:24,880 --> 01:11:31,960 Speaker 1: new tune for you, and he sang datandan that with 1040 01:11:32,080 --> 01:11:35,320 Speaker 1: the most inane lyrics you've ever heard in your life 1041 01:11:35,400 --> 01:11:39,000 Speaker 1: about my girl. She left me on a Thursday, and 1042 01:11:39,080 --> 01:11:42,000 Speaker 1: I wonder if she ever cared, you know, that kind 1043 01:11:42,040 --> 01:11:45,880 Speaker 1: of thing. And I when it got all done, I 1044 01:11:45,920 --> 01:11:49,320 Speaker 1: looked at Jim and I said, that's the hippest piece 1045 01:11:49,320 --> 01:11:52,760 Speaker 1: of music to the most banallyps I've ever heard in 1046 01:11:52,960 --> 01:11:55,080 Speaker 1: my life. And he said, well, what do you think 1047 01:11:55,080 --> 01:11:58,559 Speaker 1: it's about. And so between the three of us we 1048 01:11:58,600 --> 01:12:03,880 Speaker 1: started writing I did and roll music. Now we just 1049 01:12:03,920 --> 01:12:05,720 Speaker 1: went through this period of time where I did my 1050 01:12:05,800 --> 01:12:09,120 Speaker 1: toilet for you in a couple of sound effects. So 1051 01:12:09,479 --> 01:12:13,599 Speaker 1: I love to mimic uh. And this was we knew 1052 01:12:13,640 --> 01:12:16,000 Speaker 1: all the people that we were making. By this time, 1053 01:12:16,479 --> 01:12:19,679 Speaker 1: we had Peter Mary and I had met the Beatles 1054 01:12:19,720 --> 01:12:23,439 Speaker 1: on the set of Hard Days Night, uh, and I 1055 01:12:23,479 --> 01:12:26,000 Speaker 1: loved I mean ever since, Please Please Me. I was 1056 01:12:26,040 --> 01:12:30,760 Speaker 1: blown away by their harmonic inventions and their recordings. Uh. 1057 01:12:30,920 --> 01:12:34,439 Speaker 1: You know. And Donovan bless his bless his soul, was 1058 01:12:34,439 --> 01:12:36,519 Speaker 1: was part folky too. I mean he came to a 1059 01:12:36,520 --> 01:12:40,320 Speaker 1: couple of Newport folk festivals, uh, and was the one 1060 01:12:40,400 --> 01:12:43,880 Speaker 1: guy from that era who always, I don't know, our 1061 01:12:43,880 --> 01:12:48,479 Speaker 1: paths seemed to cross all the time and nicest, nicest 1062 01:12:48,520 --> 01:12:52,000 Speaker 1: man um but with a very distinctive singing style. And 1063 01:12:52,080 --> 01:12:55,680 Speaker 1: of course there was the Mamas and the Papas, Oh yeah, 1064 01:12:55,960 --> 01:12:59,719 Speaker 1: the John Phillips signature stuff and Mary newcasts really well. 1065 01:13:00,040 --> 01:13:04,519 Speaker 1: And so we put this thing together almost like in secret. 1066 01:13:04,640 --> 01:13:07,439 Speaker 1: I mean it was like we went into the laboratory. 1067 01:13:07,920 --> 01:13:11,200 Speaker 1: Peter played guitar and recorded it backwards, so we get 1068 01:13:11,240 --> 01:13:17,759 Speaker 1: that muss you know, that backwards sound. I imitated Donovan's voice, 1069 01:13:17,960 --> 01:13:22,280 Speaker 1: we did Mary did the oh yeah, the tagline for 1070 01:13:22,320 --> 01:13:26,880 Speaker 1: the Moms and the Papas. And here's the funny story. 1071 01:13:27,360 --> 01:13:31,080 Speaker 1: We're in Australia when the test pressing comes through. Well 1072 01:13:31,160 --> 01:13:33,080 Speaker 1: we don't have any way to play a test pressing. 1073 01:13:33,120 --> 01:13:35,600 Speaker 1: We're in a hotel, you know. So we go to 1074 01:13:35,640 --> 01:13:38,439 Speaker 1: the local record store and we put it on and 1075 01:13:38,479 --> 01:13:40,400 Speaker 1: we asked if we can borrow one of the booths, 1076 01:13:40,479 --> 01:13:42,479 Speaker 1: and the guy says, yeah, I'll just leave the door open. 1077 01:13:42,600 --> 01:13:46,120 Speaker 1: So we left the door open. We play it and 1078 01:13:46,200 --> 01:13:51,679 Speaker 1: he says to us, who's who's that? Who's that saying? 1079 01:13:51,720 --> 01:13:54,760 Speaker 1: And we said it's Peter, Paul and Mary because he 1080 01:13:54,760 --> 01:13:57,640 Speaker 1: didn't he didn't recognize us, and he said well, that 1081 01:13:57,720 --> 01:14:06,120 Speaker 1: will never sell. So that was and that was a 1082 01:14:06,200 --> 01:14:10,880 Speaker 1: remarkable UH comeback. But that's not the true irony. The 1083 01:14:10,880 --> 01:14:15,799 Speaker 1: true irony is leaving on a jet plane, which happened 1084 01:14:15,800 --> 01:14:19,840 Speaker 1: in ninev just before the group took its seven years 1085 01:14:19,880 --> 01:14:23,559 Speaker 1: off for good behavior. And that irony was based on 1086 01:14:24,439 --> 01:14:29,080 Speaker 1: the the lament and the angst that was shared by 1087 01:14:29,200 --> 01:14:33,880 Speaker 1: so many families and their sons and their daughters and 1088 01:14:34,720 --> 01:14:39,640 Speaker 1: the soldiers returning to or departing for the war in Vietnam. Uh. 1089 01:14:39,960 --> 01:14:44,280 Speaker 1: John Denver's tune was just touched so many buttons at 1090 01:14:44,320 --> 01:14:47,880 Speaker 1: that point, and that that tune was on an album 1091 01:14:47,960 --> 01:14:50,160 Speaker 1: that was released two years earlier that had I did 1092 01:14:50,240 --> 01:14:54,400 Speaker 1: rock and roll music on. I remember that because you know, 1093 01:14:54,640 --> 01:14:59,040 Speaker 1: in UH youth groups, religious youth groups, myself, I was involved. 1094 01:14:59,240 --> 01:15:01,599 Speaker 1: Album seven teen hundred was a big deal. We always 1095 01:15:01,640 --> 01:15:03,799 Speaker 1: sang leaving on in Jepline. Then what it was ultimately 1096 01:15:03,840 --> 01:15:06,320 Speaker 1: a hit was such a surprise. But I have to 1097 01:15:06,360 --> 01:15:09,400 Speaker 1: ask those of us number it was called album seventeen 1098 01:15:09,439 --> 01:15:12,799 Speaker 1: hundred because was number seventeen hundred in the Warner Brothers catalog. 1099 01:15:13,000 --> 01:15:16,240 Speaker 1: Who came up with that. Our idea was to try 1100 01:15:16,280 --> 01:15:20,759 Speaker 1: to escape the title, and we just wanted the number 1101 01:15:21,439 --> 01:15:24,040 Speaker 1: of the album to be the title, and we were 1102 01:15:24,040 --> 01:15:28,280 Speaker 1: thinking he was gonna be like or you know, two 1103 01:15:28,320 --> 01:15:31,920 Speaker 1: thousand twelve or whatever. We didn't care. We just wanted 1104 01:15:32,080 --> 01:15:34,920 Speaker 1: that was our idea. That was Peter, Mary and I said, 1105 01:15:35,280 --> 01:15:37,719 Speaker 1: let's just have the number. We told that the Warners 1106 01:15:37,920 --> 01:15:43,960 Speaker 1: Warner said fine. So when seventeen hundred came out, we said, 1107 01:15:44,200 --> 01:15:48,799 Speaker 1: seventeen hundred, that'sn't even number. What's so memorable about that? 1108 01:15:49,120 --> 01:15:51,000 Speaker 1: And you got the word album in front of it. 1109 01:15:51,040 --> 01:15:53,920 Speaker 1: We didn't want that, but it turned out not to 1110 01:15:54,000 --> 01:15:59,840 Speaker 1: matter because hundred head really quite a few major turning 1111 01:16:00,000 --> 01:16:02,280 Speaker 1: point tunes for us. By that time. Peter and I 1112 01:16:02,320 --> 01:16:05,760 Speaker 1: were generating a lot of the material. Um, I don't 1113 01:16:05,760 --> 01:16:09,120 Speaker 1: I don't remember what was on that album specifically, besides 1114 01:16:09,160 --> 01:16:10,760 Speaker 1: I did rock and home music. But I think it 1115 01:16:10,840 --> 01:16:13,280 Speaker 1: might have had the song was Love, It might have 1116 01:16:13,360 --> 01:16:16,920 Speaker 1: had him, It might have had might have had the 1117 01:16:16,960 --> 01:16:19,479 Speaker 1: House song on it. There were those were mine. I 1118 01:16:19,479 --> 01:16:22,960 Speaker 1: think I think the great Mandela was on it. Peter's 1119 01:16:23,120 --> 01:16:26,760 Speaker 1: anti war tune. Yeah, that was a end. It was 1120 01:16:26,800 --> 01:16:30,200 Speaker 1: the last of the albums done by Phil Ramon, who was, 1121 01:16:30,600 --> 01:16:34,960 Speaker 1: you know, a production genius. Uh he he did come 1122 01:16:35,000 --> 01:16:39,240 Speaker 1: back and do a album that disappeared quickly called Reunion. 1123 01:16:40,120 --> 01:16:42,240 Speaker 1: Oh no, not the Reunion album. He did the one 1124 01:16:42,360 --> 01:16:46,439 Speaker 1: after that, Lifelines Live Lifelines and Lifelines Live where we 1125 01:16:47,240 --> 01:16:52,760 Speaker 1: uh reconnected in the early eighties with John Sebashian and 1126 01:16:52,880 --> 01:16:56,200 Speaker 1: Dave Van Rock and Odetta and Richie Havens and u 1127 01:16:56,960 --> 01:17:00,439 Speaker 1: uh Susan Werner a lot of our friends Emmy Lou 1128 01:17:00,520 --> 01:17:06,840 Speaker 1: Harris to do an album songs. Okay tell me the 1129 01:17:06,840 --> 01:17:08,920 Speaker 1: story though, was too much of nothing because I was 1130 01:17:08,960 --> 01:17:13,200 Speaker 1: on the Basement Tapes and was unknown the Basement Teams album. 1131 01:17:13,280 --> 01:17:15,280 Speaker 1: There have been a number of iterations, but the original 1132 01:17:15,280 --> 01:17:18,360 Speaker 1: double album was not out yet, so most people did 1133 01:17:18,400 --> 01:17:20,720 Speaker 1: not know the song. And this not only was a 1134 01:17:20,760 --> 01:17:23,599 Speaker 1: Dylan song, the ultimate arrangement was different and it had 1135 01:17:23,840 --> 01:17:30,719 Speaker 1: very modern recording productions. Yep. Well you know, we got 1136 01:17:31,880 --> 01:17:38,360 Speaker 1: we got better at setting the tunes and we also 1137 01:17:38,479 --> 01:17:42,120 Speaker 1: had access to really brilliant musicians that slide guitar and 1138 01:17:42,160 --> 01:17:49,240 Speaker 1: too much of nothing is just I mean, there is 1139 01:17:50,720 --> 01:17:54,639 Speaker 1: always an attempt when you're producing a piece of lyrical 1140 01:17:54,800 --> 01:18:02,080 Speaker 1: music to have the music joined the lyrics, uh, you know, 1141 01:18:03,360 --> 01:18:07,519 Speaker 1: as an additive, to be part of what's being said. 1142 01:18:08,160 --> 01:18:11,760 Speaker 1: Not only suit the mood, but maybe even embellish the 1143 01:18:11,840 --> 01:18:15,280 Speaker 1: character a little bit. Sometimes it gets out of hand, 1144 01:18:15,360 --> 01:18:18,479 Speaker 1: you overshoot. I can remember there are sometimes where I 1145 01:18:18,560 --> 01:18:21,200 Speaker 1: used to play some color chords to a Woody Guthrie tune. 1146 01:18:21,720 --> 01:18:24,040 Speaker 1: By color chords, I mean like a major seventh, you know, 1147 01:18:24,080 --> 01:18:26,880 Speaker 1: We're diminished or something that Peter would go, you can't 1148 01:18:26,880 --> 01:18:30,519 Speaker 1: play that, said, why not? He said, that's not what 1149 01:18:30,600 --> 01:18:34,919 Speaker 1: the song is about. And I you know, you understand 1150 01:18:35,040 --> 01:18:38,800 Speaker 1: on a certain level you have to capitulate to what 1151 01:18:39,000 --> 01:18:41,639 Speaker 1: the song is trying to say. But on too much 1152 01:18:41,640 --> 01:18:45,960 Speaker 1: of nothing, you know, the embellishment really suited it. Uh. 1153 01:18:46,200 --> 01:18:47,920 Speaker 1: We had a great drummer. I don't remember what his 1154 01:18:48,000 --> 01:18:51,479 Speaker 1: name was, but uh yeah, too much a nothing can 1155 01:18:51,520 --> 01:18:55,320 Speaker 1: make a man feel ill at ease, and as certainly 1156 01:18:55,360 --> 01:18:58,960 Speaker 1: as the time in which we live now, and that's 1157 01:18:58,960 --> 01:19:02,280 Speaker 1: for sure. Okay, Ultimately the group separates and everybody puts 1158 01:19:02,320 --> 01:19:05,559 Speaker 1: out a solo album. Uh, you're the only one who 1159 01:19:05,560 --> 01:19:07,600 Speaker 1: has a hit, and it's a pretty big hit, the 1160 01:19:07,640 --> 01:19:12,400 Speaker 1: wedding song. And then ultimately you even donate the income 1161 01:19:12,439 --> 01:19:15,360 Speaker 1: from that song and start a foundation. Can you tell 1162 01:19:15,439 --> 01:19:20,360 Speaker 1: us all that? Yeah, well, you know, the creation of 1163 01:19:20,360 --> 01:19:25,519 Speaker 1: the song was I had gone through a real spiritual turnaround. 1164 01:19:25,600 --> 01:19:31,360 Speaker 1: Peter saw that, uh, we are you know, we are 1165 01:19:31,400 --> 01:19:36,160 Speaker 1: still a trio, but it's getting a little lobbily because 1166 01:19:36,200 --> 01:19:41,080 Speaker 1: I'm beginning to proselytize on stage and really challenging the 1167 01:19:40,800 --> 01:19:43,479 Speaker 1: uh the Jewish audience, because I haven't learned the language 1168 01:19:43,520 --> 01:19:48,640 Speaker 1: of inclusiveness yet. And and yet Peter approaches me and says, 1169 01:19:48,760 --> 01:19:51,519 Speaker 1: you know, Mary Beth and I are getting married, and 1170 01:19:51,680 --> 01:19:53,840 Speaker 1: we would love you to bless our wedding with the song. 1171 01:19:55,120 --> 01:20:00,760 Speaker 1: And I've said this from stage before, you know. I 1172 01:20:00,760 --> 01:20:03,600 Speaker 1: I knew that I wasn't authorized to dispense blessings, but 1173 01:20:03,680 --> 01:20:07,160 Speaker 1: I knew where I could get one. So so I 1174 01:20:07,320 --> 01:20:09,800 Speaker 1: prayed for the song and the and the prayer was 1175 01:20:10,880 --> 01:20:15,479 Speaker 1: unique insofar as it was not give me a song 1176 01:20:15,560 --> 01:20:19,599 Speaker 1: for Peter's wedding. It was how would you capital why 1177 01:20:22,520 --> 01:20:26,760 Speaker 1: manifest yourself at Peter's wedding? And the lyric was, I 1178 01:20:26,840 --> 01:20:30,080 Speaker 1: am now to be among you at the calling of 1179 01:20:30,160 --> 01:20:34,200 Speaker 1: your hearts. Rest assured this bozo, which I changed the 1180 01:20:34,240 --> 01:20:39,880 Speaker 1: troubador is acting, is acting on my part anyway. The 1181 01:20:40,000 --> 01:20:43,200 Speaker 1: lyric came so quickly, I, you know, could barely write it. 1182 01:20:43,240 --> 01:20:45,960 Speaker 1: Down and you've heard these stories from other songwriters before 1183 01:20:46,000 --> 01:20:51,040 Speaker 1: where it just flows, but it was direct answer to prayer. 1184 01:20:51,280 --> 01:20:54,960 Speaker 1: So flash forward nine months later, I've recorded it on 1185 01:20:55,000 --> 01:20:59,559 Speaker 1: a solo album. The trio is no longer together, and 1186 01:21:00,040 --> 01:21:04,479 Speaker 1: I am driving to New York, back to the Rye 1187 01:21:04,479 --> 01:21:08,240 Speaker 1: House from Scarsdale. I think I can't remember, maybe we 1188 01:21:08,240 --> 01:21:12,519 Speaker 1: were visiting somebody in New Hampshire. But anyway, I've kind 1189 01:21:12,520 --> 01:21:15,720 Speaker 1: of make a decision about publishing. Every one of the 1190 01:21:15,760 --> 01:21:17,920 Speaker 1: tunes is Scott. You know. I'm doing a tune by 1191 01:21:17,920 --> 01:21:21,800 Speaker 1: Bill Hughes called Meanings Will Change. I've you know, I've 1192 01:21:21,840 --> 01:21:24,000 Speaker 1: written a lot of the tunes that are on the album, 1193 01:21:24,040 --> 01:21:29,759 Speaker 1: but there's this tune that I can't really incredibly except 1194 01:21:29,800 --> 01:21:32,760 Speaker 1: the authorship of because I prayed for it. I mean, 1195 01:21:33,360 --> 01:21:36,760 Speaker 1: you know, they had a category in songwriting that said 1196 01:21:36,800 --> 01:21:40,800 Speaker 1: good Steward. Maybe I'll qualify, you know, but they don't 1197 01:21:40,840 --> 01:21:43,080 Speaker 1: allow that in publishing. Either wrote it or you didn't 1198 01:21:43,120 --> 01:21:46,519 Speaker 1: write it. So as I'm driving, I turned to Betty 1199 01:21:46,560 --> 01:21:49,559 Speaker 1: and I say, you know, I ain't gonna give this tune. 1200 01:21:50,560 --> 01:21:54,280 Speaker 1: I'm going to give this tune to a foundation and 1201 01:21:54,320 --> 01:21:57,080 Speaker 1: then so that way the money's will still come in 1202 01:21:57,160 --> 01:21:59,960 Speaker 1: there won't be a new portion the Warner Brothers parking 1203 01:22:00,000 --> 01:22:03,200 Speaker 1: a lot that knowns that belongs to some executive because 1204 01:22:03,200 --> 01:22:05,200 Speaker 1: he didn't have to pay out the money for the publishing. 1205 01:22:05,560 --> 01:22:08,560 Speaker 1: The money will go to not now mind you, this 1206 01:22:08,680 --> 01:22:10,760 Speaker 1: is still just a track on an album. I don't 1207 01:22:10,760 --> 01:22:14,640 Speaker 1: know that it's gonna go you know, platinum as a 1208 01:22:14,720 --> 01:22:20,760 Speaker 1: single or become a mainstay for weddings. Uh. So I 1209 01:22:20,800 --> 01:22:24,160 Speaker 1: gave it to the public Domain Foundation, made sure that 1210 01:22:24,200 --> 01:22:26,760 Speaker 1: everybody knew that that's where the money should go. And 1211 01:22:26,800 --> 01:22:33,120 Speaker 1: you know what, the Public Domain Foundation fostered the Music 1212 01:22:33,160 --> 01:22:38,120 Speaker 1: to Life Organization, which now supports young singer songwriters all 1213 01:22:38,200 --> 01:22:42,280 Speaker 1: over America in their various communities. It also, you know, 1214 01:22:42,360 --> 01:22:48,320 Speaker 1: in that process, uh supported a lot of other charities too. 1215 01:22:48,760 --> 01:22:51,880 Speaker 1: And the nice thing about it, U was I got 1216 01:22:51,920 --> 01:22:54,599 Speaker 1: to choose who the charities were because it was such 1217 01:22:54,600 --> 01:22:59,200 Speaker 1: a homespun foundation. I mean, yeah, I gave you know, 1218 01:22:59,640 --> 01:23:03,200 Speaker 1: public Domain Foundation gave thirty dollars to Oxfam, which a 1219 01:23:03,240 --> 01:23:05,960 Speaker 1: lot of people know the works of. But it also 1220 01:23:06,040 --> 01:23:08,600 Speaker 1: gave like forty one dollars and thirty four cents to 1221 01:23:08,640 --> 01:23:12,519 Speaker 1: a church in Alabama to get its roof fixed. That 1222 01:23:12,600 --> 01:23:16,840 Speaker 1: kind of flexibility was just a joy to me. Um, 1223 01:23:16,880 --> 01:23:20,840 Speaker 1: you know, and people didn't know where to apply to 1224 01:23:21,040 --> 01:23:25,479 Speaker 1: the foundation. But the Moneys went for you know, for 1225 01:23:25,600 --> 01:23:28,519 Speaker 1: good causes. And I felt like I had made a statement. 1226 01:23:28,800 --> 01:23:34,519 Speaker 1: And the song continues to make a statement. Okay, you know, 1227 01:23:34,880 --> 01:23:37,920 Speaker 1: you can't talk about the music business without talking about 1228 01:23:38,000 --> 01:23:41,120 Speaker 1: the money. What do we know back then? You know, 1229 01:23:41,520 --> 01:23:45,000 Speaker 1: contrat tickets could be a dollar fifty records could be 1230 01:23:45,040 --> 01:23:48,439 Speaker 1: two dollars and fifty cents. You didn't write a lot 1231 01:23:48,479 --> 01:23:52,040 Speaker 1: of these songs now, one level economics were different. There 1232 01:23:52,080 --> 01:23:54,600 Speaker 1: was more of a middle class. We didn't have billionaires. 1233 01:23:55,080 --> 01:23:58,160 Speaker 1: So I guess it's you know, a multipart question, which 1234 01:23:58,280 --> 01:24:01,719 Speaker 1: was a did you see the money? Could you live 1235 01:24:01,800 --> 01:24:05,120 Speaker 1: with a lifestyle you were comfortable with? Do you felt 1236 01:24:05,200 --> 01:24:08,519 Speaker 1: feel like you were ripped off when the heyday was done? 1237 01:24:08,640 --> 01:24:14,200 Speaker 1: Was there any money coming in? Oh, that's such an 1238 01:24:14,280 --> 01:24:20,200 Speaker 1: uninformed question, Bob. We'll lay it on, criticize, we go 1239 01:24:20,280 --> 01:24:26,000 Speaker 1: for it. Oh yeah, I mean, well, let's work backwards. 1240 01:24:27,200 --> 01:24:33,839 Speaker 1: Even today, from Warner Brothers Publishing or New World Publishing, 1241 01:24:33,880 --> 01:24:38,000 Speaker 1: which is my own, or Peters I think it's Silver 1242 01:24:38,120 --> 01:24:44,400 Speaker 1: Dawn Publishing. We get accountings. They come in the form 1243 01:24:44,760 --> 01:24:49,800 Speaker 1: of two inch thick uh pieces of paper, a two 1244 01:24:49,880 --> 01:24:55,320 Speaker 1: inch stack of papers typed out by a computer that says, 1245 01:24:55,400 --> 01:25:01,960 Speaker 1: for instance, too much of nothing Singapore point zero zero 1246 01:25:02,200 --> 01:25:08,760 Speaker 1: one to five cents. These things add up, and when 1247 01:25:08,760 --> 01:25:12,120 Speaker 1: you're talking about a worldwide release, they had up to 1248 01:25:12,160 --> 01:25:15,759 Speaker 1: a considerable amount of money. So even to this date, 1249 01:25:17,000 --> 01:25:21,160 Speaker 1: I probably just my part of it. And I'm you know, 1250 01:25:21,200 --> 01:25:23,439 Speaker 1: I didn't have puff the magic dragon. You know, I 1251 01:25:23,479 --> 01:25:27,080 Speaker 1: didn't have I would say the lion's share of the publishing. 1252 01:25:27,120 --> 01:25:31,120 Speaker 1: But even to this date, I'm well into five figures 1253 01:25:31,640 --> 01:25:37,880 Speaker 1: uh publishing moneys that come in quarterly. Um So, I'm 1254 01:25:37,920 --> 01:25:42,240 Speaker 1: just blessed beyond belief, really, And I think most people 1255 01:25:42,360 --> 01:25:47,680 Speaker 1: who had record deals from the sixties who are revisited 1256 01:25:47,720 --> 01:25:52,120 Speaker 1: for nostalgia purposes or revisited because an advertising campaign wants 1257 01:25:52,160 --> 01:25:57,800 Speaker 1: to use their music the ask cap and after and 1258 01:25:57,880 --> 01:26:01,679 Speaker 1: all of the unions that have protected artists these past 1259 01:26:01,760 --> 01:26:05,160 Speaker 1: years have done their work very well. And to the 1260 01:26:05,200 --> 01:26:10,400 Speaker 1: extent that you earn in royalty, uh, you get a 1261 01:26:10,479 --> 01:26:16,439 Speaker 1: pretty fair shake from the world around you. Um So 1262 01:26:16,560 --> 01:26:18,920 Speaker 1: I have I have no complaints, no quarrel with the 1263 01:26:18,960 --> 01:26:22,000 Speaker 1: way that the money's were played out. There probably are 1264 01:26:22,600 --> 01:26:28,080 Speaker 1: horror stories based on unscrupulous managers, you know, or unscrupulous 1265 01:26:28,120 --> 01:26:30,960 Speaker 1: companies who had you sign on a dotted line in 1266 01:26:30,960 --> 01:26:34,400 Speaker 1: invisible length that went away or went through a shredder 1267 01:26:34,640 --> 01:26:40,439 Speaker 1: or into some offshore account. But for the most part, 1268 01:26:40,800 --> 01:26:44,880 Speaker 1: the people that we dealt with were very upright, very 1269 01:26:45,280 --> 01:26:49,599 Speaker 1: uh yeah, very honorable folks. And most of the music industry, 1270 01:26:49,640 --> 01:26:54,120 Speaker 1: I think, is that way. Well, as I say, there's 1271 01:26:54,120 --> 01:26:57,240 Speaker 1: certainly horror stories. Thank god it wasn't down in your 1272 01:26:57,280 --> 01:26:59,760 Speaker 1: neck of the woods. Let's go to the Music to 1273 01:26:59,840 --> 01:27:02,840 Speaker 1: lie when. So, when did you start Music to Life 1274 01:27:02,920 --> 01:27:05,280 Speaker 1: And what is the mission you sort of generally said, 1275 01:27:05,280 --> 01:27:08,679 Speaker 1: and what are the activities of the organization? For asking 1276 01:27:09,120 --> 01:27:11,360 Speaker 1: because that is a contemporary thing and most people like 1277 01:27:11,439 --> 01:27:13,840 Speaker 1: to dwell in the land of nostalgia. When they talked 1278 01:27:13,880 --> 01:27:17,000 Speaker 1: to a a former member of Peter, Paul and Mary, 1279 01:27:17,120 --> 01:27:22,640 Speaker 1: the fact is, as I mentioned before, folk music has 1280 01:27:22,680 --> 01:27:27,080 Speaker 1: an ongoing life, and that means that there are writers, 1281 01:27:27,479 --> 01:27:31,599 Speaker 1: singer songwriters out there who are writing about contemporary events, 1282 01:27:31,720 --> 01:27:36,680 Speaker 1: contemporary concerns, and they are a group of songwriters nationally 1283 01:27:36,880 --> 01:27:42,160 Speaker 1: and probably even worldwide. Now that an organization called Music 1284 01:27:42,200 --> 01:27:46,000 Speaker 1: to Life that was begun by my daughter Elizabeth Sunday 1285 01:27:46,040 --> 01:27:52,679 Speaker 1: Stooky UH support but the evolution is interesting, and it's 1286 01:27:52,680 --> 01:27:58,120 Speaker 1: interesting because most people can identify with the beginnings easier 1287 01:27:58,160 --> 01:28:03,080 Speaker 1: than they can with where it has come. In the beginning, 1288 01:28:03,600 --> 01:28:06,880 Speaker 1: there were folk festivals and at these folk festivals there 1289 01:28:06,920 --> 01:28:11,080 Speaker 1: would be singer songwriters. One of the primary folk festivals 1290 01:28:11,120 --> 01:28:14,400 Speaker 1: was in Texas in the little town called Cerville. And 1291 01:28:14,479 --> 01:28:22,640 Speaker 1: every year, beginning in the late hundreds, UH, Elizabeth, my 1292 01:28:22,720 --> 01:28:27,599 Speaker 1: daughter and I would scan anywhere between three hundred and 1293 01:28:27,640 --> 01:28:33,599 Speaker 1: five hundred applicants to be included on an album called 1294 01:28:33,680 --> 01:28:38,360 Speaker 1: Music to Life, and UH an appear at the Silver 1295 01:28:38,400 --> 01:28:45,200 Speaker 1: Thorn Theater. UH as one of ten finalists who would 1296 01:28:45,200 --> 01:28:51,400 Speaker 1: receive receive awards. Those were curious concerts UH beginning. Then 1297 01:28:51,640 --> 01:28:54,360 Speaker 1: First of all, they were recorded live and released later 1298 01:28:54,400 --> 01:29:00,200 Speaker 1: as an album. But what what what year was in 1299 01:29:00,200 --> 01:29:02,360 Speaker 1: the beginning, But it went on until two thousand six, 1300 01:29:02,439 --> 01:29:04,559 Speaker 1: two thousand nine, actually I think it was the last 1301 01:29:04,600 --> 01:29:09,640 Speaker 1: one UM, and they supported and encouraged singer songwriters to 1302 01:29:09,680 --> 01:29:17,200 Speaker 1: speak about UH contemporary concerns. UM. The it was recorded live, UH. 1303 01:29:17,479 --> 01:29:21,120 Speaker 1: The CD was released didn't really make much money, but 1304 01:29:21,160 --> 01:29:24,679 Speaker 1: it was great to go on record as having uh 1305 01:29:24,800 --> 01:29:29,080 Speaker 1: encouraged these singer songwriters. Well over the course of that 1306 01:29:29,120 --> 01:29:33,000 Speaker 1: period of time, my daughter Liz begin to understand that 1307 01:29:33,120 --> 01:29:37,559 Speaker 1: many of these artists didn't do the music just because 1308 01:29:37,600 --> 01:29:39,920 Speaker 1: it was a hip thing to do. They did it 1309 01:29:40,040 --> 01:29:45,440 Speaker 1: because they were factoring as a lifestyle into the community 1310 01:29:46,240 --> 01:29:51,519 Speaker 1: and concerned with homelessness, concerned with the environment, concerned with 1311 01:29:52,360 --> 01:29:57,000 Speaker 1: So the music wasn't only to be sung at a 1312 01:29:57,080 --> 01:30:02,679 Speaker 1: rubber chicken benefit dinner. It was actually could be used 1313 01:30:02,680 --> 01:30:05,400 Speaker 1: with a group of people as a kind of an 1314 01:30:05,400 --> 01:30:12,919 Speaker 1: anthem for them. So by community sponsorship, Uh, they for instance, 1315 01:30:13,080 --> 01:30:18,280 Speaker 1: in Austin, Texas, now there's a homeless group that gathers 1316 01:30:18,520 --> 01:30:23,599 Speaker 1: weekly and they make up songs together. Um. They sing together. 1317 01:30:23,720 --> 01:30:26,240 Speaker 1: They have more of a sense of family than they 1318 01:30:26,280 --> 01:30:32,360 Speaker 1: ever could isolated as you would imagine they would be. Um. 1319 01:30:32,479 --> 01:30:38,160 Speaker 1: The they're singing in prisons now. UM. So that music 1320 01:30:38,320 --> 01:30:44,400 Speaker 1: becomes kind of educational and a collective tool for the 1321 01:30:44,439 --> 01:30:49,439 Speaker 1: movement itself. Um. And to that end, my daughter Liz 1322 01:30:49,439 --> 01:30:53,640 Speaker 1: has started the Activist Artist program, which these two of 1323 01:30:53,680 --> 01:30:57,120 Speaker 1: the two of the people on this album are activist artists. 1324 01:30:57,120 --> 01:31:00,559 Speaker 1: The others are still on the point where they're commenting 1325 01:31:00,920 --> 01:31:05,960 Speaker 1: on the circumstances, but uh, not taking a role in 1326 01:31:06,000 --> 01:31:12,040 Speaker 1: the community yet, So we raise money, we mentor them. Uh. 1327 01:31:13,960 --> 01:31:17,800 Speaker 1: The most one of the local guys, uh, you know, 1328 01:31:17,840 --> 01:31:21,479 Speaker 1: Miles Bullen down in Portland, Maine. It was a former 1329 01:31:21,520 --> 01:31:25,800 Speaker 1: addict and we support him on a monthly basis and 1330 01:31:25,960 --> 01:31:28,680 Speaker 1: he deals with high schools. I mean he has to 1331 01:31:28,720 --> 01:31:31,240 Speaker 1: do it because of the pandemic. Now you know through 1332 01:31:31,320 --> 01:31:35,960 Speaker 1: zoom or through uh you know, through online methods. But 1333 01:31:37,320 --> 01:31:41,080 Speaker 1: we support these artists and their involvement in their neighborhoods 1334 01:31:41,320 --> 01:31:46,720 Speaker 1: as they bring their message of hope and their Yeah, 1335 01:31:46,920 --> 01:31:50,639 Speaker 1: they bring their message of hope through music to their 1336 01:31:50,680 --> 01:31:56,160 Speaker 1: their fellow citizens. Okay, now you recently put out an album, 1337 01:31:56,240 --> 01:32:02,479 Speaker 1: and how high hands on are you personally? Well, you 1338 01:32:02,560 --> 01:32:05,200 Speaker 1: know that that brings That's a good question, and it 1339 01:32:05,280 --> 01:32:08,200 Speaker 1: brings to mind the fact that I didn't properly answer 1340 01:32:08,640 --> 01:32:12,559 Speaker 1: the question about the earlier aspect of who chose these 1341 01:32:12,560 --> 01:32:14,679 Speaker 1: songs to go on this album? Out of the three 1342 01:32:15,080 --> 01:32:18,240 Speaker 1: to five hundred tunes that was a great cast at 1343 01:32:18,280 --> 01:32:23,880 Speaker 1: Kathy Mattea, Judy Collins, Tom Chapin, Tom Paxton, A lot 1344 01:32:23,920 --> 01:32:28,040 Speaker 1: of the folkis uh served on a board that analyzed 1345 01:32:28,080 --> 01:32:32,080 Speaker 1: and listened to these tunes. So this same concept now 1346 01:32:32,479 --> 01:32:36,800 Speaker 1: came to bear on these fifteen tunes. Uh. My involvement, 1347 01:32:36,880 --> 01:32:42,640 Speaker 1: aside from being one of the judges, was two sequence. 1348 01:32:43,360 --> 01:32:45,640 Speaker 1: I'm from the old school. I'll bet you are too. 1349 01:32:45,840 --> 01:32:47,960 Speaker 1: I When I put a record on, I love to 1350 01:32:48,040 --> 01:32:50,200 Speaker 1: hear what the next tune is going to be. And 1351 01:32:50,280 --> 01:32:53,040 Speaker 1: I mean it's part of what makes radio so fascinating. 1352 01:32:53,240 --> 01:32:55,519 Speaker 1: If the disc jockey is really good, then he tells 1353 01:32:55,520 --> 01:32:59,360 Speaker 1: a story with the songs that he tends to program. 1354 01:32:59,439 --> 01:33:04,280 Speaker 1: So sequencing was important to me on this album. Hope 1355 01:33:04,400 --> 01:33:11,240 Speaker 1: rises Um. That was probably a major contribution. Uh. The 1356 01:33:11,960 --> 01:33:16,240 Speaker 1: fact is the I would say fully a dozen of 1357 01:33:16,280 --> 01:33:21,759 Speaker 1: the fifteen tunes were selected just by quantitatively, uh saying 1358 01:33:21,840 --> 01:33:24,200 Speaker 1: this song spoke spoke to me on a scale of 1359 01:33:24,320 --> 01:33:26,400 Speaker 1: zero to ten. This was a nine, or this is 1360 01:33:26,400 --> 01:33:28,280 Speaker 1: an eight and a half, or this was a But 1361 01:33:28,720 --> 01:33:30,680 Speaker 1: three of the songs, and I can't remember which ones 1362 01:33:30,680 --> 01:33:32,120 Speaker 1: they are, but three of the songs are on the 1363 01:33:32,160 --> 01:33:37,559 Speaker 1: album because well they damn well should be. It was 1364 01:33:37,640 --> 01:33:40,920 Speaker 1: one of those Okay, everybody gets a personal vote at 1365 01:33:40,960 --> 01:33:43,839 Speaker 1: some point, you know, you get the it's the opposite 1366 01:33:43,880 --> 01:33:49,400 Speaker 1: of a veto, it's a must have so uh so 1367 01:33:49,760 --> 01:33:53,120 Speaker 1: it was mostly a democratic process that brought the songs together. 1368 01:33:53,920 --> 01:33:56,439 Speaker 1: But the there's a great deal of excitement, and you 1369 01:33:56,439 --> 01:33:59,479 Speaker 1: know what really knocks me out. These are fifteen very 1370 01:33:59,560 --> 01:34:03,240 Speaker 1: diverse started. I mean we're talking hip hop, we're talking reggae, 1371 01:34:03,240 --> 01:34:08,479 Speaker 1: we're talking uh, we're talking folky, we're talking lots of echo, 1372 01:34:08,520 --> 01:34:12,360 Speaker 1: we're talking no echo, we're talking spare, we're talking to lush, 1373 01:34:12,400 --> 01:34:15,160 Speaker 1: And I don't you know, I'd like to claim credit 1374 01:34:15,280 --> 01:34:17,680 Speaker 1: that because of the sequencing, you're drawn into it. But 1375 01:34:17,760 --> 01:34:20,320 Speaker 1: the nicest compliment that we've gotten so far is that 1376 01:34:20,360 --> 01:34:22,400 Speaker 1: people can put on the record and they can play 1377 01:34:22,439 --> 01:34:25,160 Speaker 1: the entire record and they're not put off by any 1378 01:34:25,200 --> 01:34:27,800 Speaker 1: of the changes. I mean, as diverse as all of 1379 01:34:27,800 --> 01:34:32,200 Speaker 1: these tracks are, they flow one to another. Now one's 1380 01:34:32,200 --> 01:34:35,000 Speaker 1: got a secretly hope that the reason for that is 1381 01:34:35,080 --> 01:34:41,080 Speaker 1: because the intention is selling the tune, that the caring 1382 01:34:41,560 --> 01:34:45,280 Speaker 1: that these artists have is being expressed in a way 1383 01:34:45,320 --> 01:34:49,000 Speaker 1: that's subliminal, and you just can't help but warmly respond 1384 01:34:49,040 --> 01:34:55,440 Speaker 1: to it. Now, needless to say, the landscape in society, 1385 01:34:55,520 --> 01:34:58,080 Speaker 1: in the music world is completely different from when you 1386 01:34:58,120 --> 01:35:02,200 Speaker 1: guys came up in the early sixties. So when we 1387 01:35:02,240 --> 01:35:05,760 Speaker 1: talk about this type of music, I'll use labels, which 1388 01:35:05,880 --> 01:35:09,360 Speaker 1: you know, don't really nail it, but message music, music 1389 01:35:09,439 --> 01:35:12,320 Speaker 1: that might you know, reflect society or want to push 1390 01:35:12,360 --> 01:35:15,000 Speaker 1: it into a certain degree. Many people who have been 1391 01:35:15,040 --> 01:35:17,639 Speaker 1: around felt that we'd see a surge of this music 1392 01:35:17,840 --> 01:35:20,800 Speaker 1: after the surge when we had a rack war in 1393 01:35:20,840 --> 01:35:23,559 Speaker 1: the earlier part of the century. But what we know 1394 01:35:23,800 --> 01:35:30,040 Speaker 1: is that no specific uh, social commentary, anti war political 1395 01:35:30,120 --> 01:35:35,000 Speaker 1: song has come top of mind and society. So I 1396 01:35:35,080 --> 01:35:40,240 Speaker 1: must ask you, is that a matter of the breath 1397 01:35:41,000 --> 01:35:45,200 Speaker 1: of music today and that it's almost hard to have 1398 01:35:45,280 --> 01:35:48,639 Speaker 1: anything heard by everybody? Or are we lacking the one 1399 01:35:48,800 --> 01:35:53,320 Speaker 1: specific writer or artist who will make something definitive and 1400 01:35:53,360 --> 01:35:57,759 Speaker 1: then start a new movement. I think both of those 1401 01:35:58,800 --> 01:36:04,200 Speaker 1: possibilities are true. For instance, uh, and we will remind 1402 01:36:04,240 --> 01:36:09,200 Speaker 1: you of Bruce Springsteen and his important position in bringing 1403 01:36:09,760 --> 01:36:15,320 Speaker 1: two the public mind issues and perspectives on the way 1404 01:36:15,360 --> 01:36:18,360 Speaker 1: that we live our lives together. Whether that whether he 1405 01:36:18,760 --> 01:36:22,439 Speaker 1: enacted it through his you know, ten thousand people in 1406 01:36:22,520 --> 01:36:25,640 Speaker 1: an in an arena, or whether he does it on Broadway, 1407 01:36:26,439 --> 01:36:31,600 Speaker 1: So and and Lady Gaga, you know, uh, to a 1408 01:36:31,960 --> 01:36:35,639 Speaker 1: certain extent, But these Lady Gaga is perhaps more niche 1409 01:36:36,040 --> 01:36:40,240 Speaker 1: in in terms of what she is expressing. Uh, but 1410 01:36:40,439 --> 01:36:46,240 Speaker 1: nonetheless So that's why that's why the the other possibility 1411 01:36:46,280 --> 01:36:49,720 Speaker 1: that you introduced is also correct. There are just so 1412 01:36:49,840 --> 01:36:55,400 Speaker 1: many fragments of musical opportunity that exists now for artists 1413 01:36:55,920 --> 01:36:59,320 Speaker 1: that they have to pick their particular community to speak to. 1414 01:37:00,200 --> 01:37:03,839 Speaker 1: There is not going to be one. I mean, unless 1415 01:37:03,880 --> 01:37:08,080 Speaker 1: the Messiah is going to arrive and be accompanied by 1416 01:37:08,120 --> 01:37:11,679 Speaker 1: a twelve piece band and bring a whole different kind 1417 01:37:11,760 --> 01:37:15,600 Speaker 1: of music that everybody immediately recognizes as the answer to 1418 01:37:15,680 --> 01:37:20,920 Speaker 1: all of the foibles of humankind, that's not gonna happen 1419 01:37:21,439 --> 01:37:25,719 Speaker 1: in the way that we were able to accept music 1420 01:37:25,760 --> 01:37:29,879 Speaker 1: of the civil rights movement, music of the anti apartheid movement, 1421 01:37:30,160 --> 01:37:34,200 Speaker 1: music of the environmental movement. I mean, these are, uh, 1422 01:37:34,240 --> 01:37:38,200 Speaker 1: they're bigger than splinters, they're probably even planks, But they're 1423 01:37:38,200 --> 01:37:45,519 Speaker 1: not an entire house interesting metaphor. Okay, Uh, just to 1424 01:37:45,600 --> 01:37:47,760 Speaker 1: cover one thing before, because we're gonna have to wrap 1425 01:37:47,800 --> 01:37:50,120 Speaker 1: it up, you have to go, and we've gone at length. 1426 01:37:50,520 --> 01:37:55,280 Speaker 1: Do you ever get tired of singing these legendary songs? 1427 01:37:58,200 --> 01:38:01,320 Speaker 1: I do have a little trouble with puff the magic Dragon. 1428 01:38:02,200 --> 01:38:06,600 Speaker 1: Um though, you know, sometimes just in defense of the 1429 01:38:06,640 --> 01:38:10,920 Speaker 1: poor dragon who's maligned for his a parent or alleged 1430 01:38:10,920 --> 01:38:14,120 Speaker 1: association with drugs, I don't mind standing up for the 1431 01:38:14,160 --> 01:38:17,320 Speaker 1: poor little guy, uh, you know, and setting the record 1432 01:38:17,360 --> 01:38:20,240 Speaker 1: straight that he is really just a song about a 1433 01:38:20,479 --> 01:38:26,759 Speaker 1: kid who's coming of age. Uh. It's what Tom Paxson 1434 01:38:26,880 --> 01:38:30,120 Speaker 1: had a great line for this, Bob. He said, it's 1435 01:38:30,160 --> 01:38:33,280 Speaker 1: all right to look at the past, you just don't 1436 01:38:33,320 --> 01:38:39,439 Speaker 1: want to be caught staring at it. And to the 1437 01:38:39,479 --> 01:38:43,479 Speaker 1: extent that I'm still writing new tunes and embracing tunes 1438 01:38:43,560 --> 01:38:49,120 Speaker 1: by other artists that speak to the here and now. Ah, 1439 01:38:49,840 --> 01:38:54,760 Speaker 1: I feel like it's important to include some songs of 1440 01:38:54,840 --> 01:38:58,840 Speaker 1: the past, but it's also important to register the fact 1441 01:38:58,880 --> 01:39:02,519 Speaker 1: that we are living temporarily and that there is a 1442 01:39:02,560 --> 01:39:08,280 Speaker 1: possible future before us that has a brighter light, uh 1443 01:39:08,280 --> 01:39:10,559 Speaker 1: than the than the world that we're living in now. 1444 01:39:12,680 --> 01:39:15,240 Speaker 1: I'm that note of optimism. I don't think I can 1445 01:39:15,280 --> 01:39:20,080 Speaker 1: add anything more, Nol. This has been fantastic. You're very erudite, 1446 01:39:20,479 --> 01:39:24,080 Speaker 1: very articulate. You can speak as well as saying I 1447 01:39:24,120 --> 01:39:27,519 Speaker 1: really appreciate you spending the time, Bob. I was not 1448 01:39:27,600 --> 01:39:31,320 Speaker 1: looking forward to this at all, two hours out of 1449 01:39:31,360 --> 01:39:33,760 Speaker 1: my life was not the kind of thing that I 1450 01:39:33,840 --> 01:39:38,600 Speaker 1: wanted to do. And you are an irascible, wonderful old 1451 01:39:38,640 --> 01:39:44,200 Speaker 1: host who brought the best out of my history. I 1452 01:39:44,520 --> 01:39:48,799 Speaker 1: enjoyed so much, uh this time with you. And once again, 1453 01:39:49,360 --> 01:39:53,440 Speaker 1: to make that analogy, I entered this door with an expectation, 1454 01:39:53,720 --> 01:39:58,639 Speaker 1: and I am leaving with a far greater excitement than 1455 01:39:58,760 --> 01:40:00,920 Speaker 1: I thought I would have. Thank so much for having me. 1456 01:40:02,200 --> 01:40:05,160 Speaker 1: Well to use that old Yiddish expression, I'm veelling even 1457 01:40:05,200 --> 01:40:08,280 Speaker 1: though people can't see it on the screen, but you know, 1458 01:40:08,840 --> 01:40:12,120 Speaker 1: you have to understand. You know, there's a huge thought 1459 01:40:12,600 --> 01:40:16,439 Speaker 1: that today's society, youngsters don't have a sense of history. 1460 01:40:16,479 --> 01:40:19,479 Speaker 1: They talk about baseball players not knowing the people before. 1461 01:40:20,160 --> 01:40:24,120 Speaker 1: But for those of us who live through this era, okay, 1462 01:40:24,479 --> 01:40:26,599 Speaker 1: not only is it a thrill to speak with you, 1463 01:40:26,720 --> 01:40:30,559 Speaker 1: but I am aware. I mean, the the folk era 1464 01:40:30,720 --> 01:40:36,439 Speaker 1: has been distilled essentially to Dylan going to electric a Newport. Okay, 1465 01:40:37,280 --> 01:40:40,200 Speaker 1: you know, forgetting the whole essence of what was going on, 1466 01:40:40,360 --> 01:40:43,000 Speaker 1: not that that was not important, the relative to the 1467 01:40:43,040 --> 01:40:46,240 Speaker 1: scene at large, which is much larger, and the fact 1468 01:40:46,280 --> 01:40:49,040 Speaker 1: that you can talk about it and put it in 1469 01:40:49,120 --> 01:40:52,320 Speaker 1: context is certainly thrilling to me. And I'm not I'm 1470 01:40:52,320 --> 01:40:55,719 Speaker 1: not exaggerating. It's like, you know, if we had more time, 1471 01:40:55,840 --> 01:40:57,800 Speaker 1: what was it really like? I mean, I grew up 1472 01:40:57,840 --> 01:41:01,400 Speaker 1: only fifty miles away. I'll tell you something that you'll get, 1473 01:41:01,680 --> 01:41:04,679 Speaker 1: which most people won't. And then I was a freshman 1474 01:41:04,720 --> 01:41:07,679 Speaker 1: in high school and we're social studies. We were going 1475 01:41:07,760 --> 01:41:10,120 Speaker 1: to go on a trip, a field trip, and we're 1476 01:41:10,120 --> 01:41:13,000 Speaker 1: deciding where to go, and we were going to go 1477 01:41:13,080 --> 01:41:17,040 Speaker 1: to Sturbridge Village. You're aware of Sturbridge Village, right, that's 1478 01:41:17,120 --> 01:41:20,880 Speaker 1: you know, just over the line from Connecticut, Massachusetts. It's 1479 01:41:20,960 --> 01:41:24,360 Speaker 1: kind of like Williamsburg. People know better where it's, you know, 1480 01:41:24,400 --> 01:41:27,760 Speaker 1: a reenactment of the way life used to be. All 1481 01:41:27,760 --> 01:41:29,759 Speaker 1: of a sudden, the guy in the back, Steve Blink, 1482 01:41:29,800 --> 01:41:33,839 Speaker 1: he says, we can't go there. It's terrible, all the people, 1483 01:41:34,320 --> 01:41:37,800 Speaker 1: it's crowded, and we're all sitting there in classic you 1484 01:41:37,840 --> 01:41:41,519 Speaker 1: know what is he talking about? Sturbridge Village? And then 1485 01:41:41,560 --> 01:41:49,160 Speaker 1: somebody says, you mean Greenwich Village? Uh? And as I say, 1486 01:41:49,280 --> 01:41:51,599 Speaker 1: it was such a scene. You know, it's funny that 1487 01:41:51,640 --> 01:41:53,559 Speaker 1: you know, things happened. I wouldn't say, right under my 1488 01:41:53,600 --> 01:41:55,759 Speaker 1: nose because I was young at the time and I 1489 01:41:55,800 --> 01:41:58,880 Speaker 1: was not living in the city and I didn't have wheels. 1490 01:41:58,920 --> 01:42:02,920 Speaker 1: But these you all scenes fomented and you were right 1491 01:42:02,920 --> 01:42:05,760 Speaker 1: there at the epicenter, and as I say, once again, 1492 01:42:05,760 --> 01:42:08,120 Speaker 1: you can talk about it, which is very impressive to me. 1493 01:42:08,640 --> 01:42:10,679 Speaker 1: So maybe in a future day we can go deeper 1494 01:42:10,680 --> 01:42:13,720 Speaker 1: into some of those scenes. But thanks again so much 1495 01:42:13,760 --> 01:42:16,719 Speaker 1: for doing this. It was my pleasure. Thank you again. 1496 01:42:17,000 --> 01:42:21,639 Speaker 1: It was really fun. Til next time. This is Bob Left. 1497 01:42:21,720 --> 01:42:22,000 Speaker 1: Fans