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Speaker 1: Worry.

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Speaker 2: Today's episode contains spoilers for the Last of Us Season two,

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Speaker 2: episodes one through five.

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Speaker 3: You word.

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Speaker 2: Hello, My name is Jason Seton and I'm Rosday Night

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Speaker 2: and welcome back to text revision of the podcast where we

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Speaker 2: dive deep bi dear favorite shows, movies, comics and pop

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Speaker 2: culture comedy.

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Speaker 4: You from by our podcast or Where Were You?

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Speaker 2: Three episodes a week every Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday plus Blustners

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Speaker 2: plus Us.

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Speaker 5: In today's episode, we are going to that very strange,

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Speaker 5: overly well built Yes I know it existed before. Thank you,

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Speaker 5: Discord Jackson Holetown Council meeting for a round table where

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Speaker 5: we will be calling in our very own Last of

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Speaker 5: Us Council to talk episodes one through five.

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Speaker 2: Let's open this meeting of the Jackson Hole X Ray

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Speaker 2: Vision Council by introducing the council members. First up, Superducer,

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Speaker 2: First up, our first super producer, Joel Monique, Joel, how

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Speaker 2: are you yo?

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Speaker 1: Very excited to talk about this very up and down

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Speaker 1: season of the Last of Us. We got some high highs,

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Speaker 1: some weird loads, and some interesting changes.

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Speaker 3: It's an uneven season. Who's next? Aaron Wan Kaufman, how

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Speaker 3: are you doing super producer.

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Speaker 6: I'm good. I was just smashing a pipe and some

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Speaker 6: weird things came out, but I think it's okay to

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Speaker 6: leave it. So I just I just decided to come here.

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Speaker 6: I didn't wash my hands or anything. Probably should be good.

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Speaker 6: That's funny, that's that's normal.

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Speaker 3: And Jackson Hall.

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Speaker 2: And finally our last super producer, super producer, Carmen Laurent.

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Speaker 4: How are you, Carmen.

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Speaker 6: Oh, I'm doing great.

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Speaker 7: I am. I'm out here doing beauty services for people

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Speaker 7: that Nita and Jackson.

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Speaker 6: Hall and they need it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you're doing an important.

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Speaker 6: Job, particularly hot cast of Apocalyptic Misfits.

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Speaker 7: I will talk about that because someone will about their

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Speaker 7: came with them.

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Speaker 3: The arap is like they have one in every house.

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Speaker 5: When they give you a free house, Jackson Hall, they

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Speaker 5: also give you a diceon a rap and then an

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Speaker 5: appointment with you.

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Speaker 7: Common right of course, yes, priorities.

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Speaker 2: All right, first up, let's talk about you know, we

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Speaker 2: had Rosie and I had fun talking about how we

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Speaker 2: think we would have done apocalypse.

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Speaker 4: So I'd love to hear from y'all.

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Speaker 2: Would you have survived and how would you have survived

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Speaker 2: to make it to Jackson Hole and a sanctuary and

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Speaker 2: safety amongst the loving community. That's also kind of very

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Speaker 2: hot community here at Jackson very sexy.

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Speaker 4: Carmon. Let's start with you.

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Speaker 1: How would you?

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Speaker 4: How do you think you would do?

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Speaker 7: If I'm being honest, I don't think I would have

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Speaker 7: maxed it. I would have made it to Jackson Hole.

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Speaker 7: I am known to be a very high maintenance. I'm

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Speaker 7: known to be. I don't like getting dirty. I don't

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Speaker 7: I don't I don't like I don't want to kill people.

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Speaker 7: So I probably would have locked myself up in my

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Speaker 7: apartment and just ingested as much marijuana as possible. I've

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Speaker 7: just tried to and.

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Speaker 3: That's definitely the x ray vision way.

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Speaker 5: We would have definitely had like the podcast phomacy and

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Speaker 5: kept using.

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Speaker 3: How about.

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Speaker 1: We should not be prescribing anything to anybody.

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Speaker 3: Jackson Hole needs a pharmacist. Let's be real.

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Speaker 1: If if we're talking surviving the way, like Joel kicks

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Speaker 1: off death immediately stretch of all cookies, immediate downfall sandwiches

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Speaker 1: were done, I just the flower would have killed me.

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Speaker 1: But if by some miracle, I didn't get the infected

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Speaker 1: flower and I somehow make it to civilization, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: be okay because I'm great at making friends and listen,

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Speaker 1: it seems like what you need to survive the apocalypse

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Speaker 1: is the ability to develop strong friendships and then also

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Speaker 1: be able to mediate those relationships. A great emotional intelligence

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Speaker 1: is like through the roof, and this is what I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna rely on to get me through. If we could

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Speaker 1: just stick together and rely on like these like I

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Speaker 1: don't know seven people. In college, I lived in a

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Speaker 1: two bedroom with twelve people for like a year. You'll

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Speaker 1: learn how to like work with your fellow man under

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Speaker 1: these conditions. And no one's bringing in any money. It's

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Speaker 1: just vodka and leftover pizzas every day. I think I

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Speaker 1: could survive to make it to a Jackson situation if

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Speaker 1: that that were to align otherwise the media death you

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Speaker 1: can hear yeah.

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Speaker 6: Better than.

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Speaker 5: Correct.

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Speaker 3: Also, I just want to say, like I'm realizing now maybe.

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Speaker 5: It will be worth going through the Courtyceps apocalypse if

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Speaker 5: we will get our own houses in Jackson hole, because

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Speaker 5: in a house otherwise, So I'm like, maybe how about

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Speaker 5: you a nice sweet guy?

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Speaker 6: I don't know, Oh, thanks, so that's so nice to you.

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Speaker 6: I think a plus for me surviving is I don't

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Speaker 6: like bread or pasta, so I would not eat it.

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Speaker 2: Mostly that would got me on day one.

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Speaker 3: I am pasta with mushrooms and I would be out.

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Speaker 3: It would be dead.

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Speaker 6: I also don't like mushrooms. So the negative though, yeah,

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Speaker 6: I mean like some mushrooms.

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Speaker 1: In general, while watching this show, I like them less.

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Speaker 6: The negative though, is my vision is horrible. We talked

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Speaker 6: about this. I have glasses, and if I were separated

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Speaker 6: from my glasses, my daily contact lenses would only last

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Speaker 6: me so long and then I would be absolutely useless. Yes,

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Speaker 6: in every way.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 6: If I were to make it to Jackson, I think

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Speaker 6: I would do well because I like small communities and

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Speaker 6: I like towns, and I grew up in the cold

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Speaker 6: in a small town. I went to college in the

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Speaker 6: cold in a small town. The only thing that would

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Speaker 6: be negative, I think is I don't like riding horses,

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Speaker 6: so if I have to do patrol, I'd be in

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Speaker 6: trouble with that.

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Speaker 1: So we're not sending you on patrol because of the

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Speaker 1: eyes sight things. So it's totally fine. You could be

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Speaker 1: in the kitchen tasting the foods, you know, tending.

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Speaker 3: Cows, do some painting or something.

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Speaker 6: I also someone I mean protein and vegetables. But I see, yeah.

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Speaker 6: But one thing I do love is like whenever I

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Speaker 6: play a board game, I love trading. So I would

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Speaker 6: love to be the person who's like, oh, you collected

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Speaker 6: two zip locks full of legos and you collected sixty

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Speaker 6: bottles of beer boom, can we can trade these things?

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Speaker 6: So I would do well runing the trading tree, ning.

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Speaker 3: The trading post.

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Speaker 5: Okay, So something I mean, it's quite clear, I think

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Speaker 5: from what we were just saying, but all of us

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Speaker 5: are definitely I think more in like the group mentality

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Speaker 5: of how we would survive this. But I think something

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Speaker 5: that's very interesting about Last of Us, especially this season,

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Speaker 5: is there are a lot of kind of individual versus

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Speaker 5: group how would you survive the apocalypse? Obviously, first season

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Speaker 5: is very like low morphrom Car, but it's just Joel

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Speaker 5: and Ellie.

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Speaker 3: He won't survive.

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Speaker 5: And then second season becomes more about these communities or

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Speaker 5: tribes or roving groups. How is that working for you, Joel?

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Speaker 5: As kind of a narrative change.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's a challenge. You guys have spoken and

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Speaker 1: we've spoken a little bit off camera off Mike about

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Speaker 1: you know, what's it like post Joel what's the show

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Speaker 1: like if Joel's not here, what are reacting to you?

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Speaker 4: What are responding to.

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Speaker 1: When we get to what's your first character? Irving Ian Isaac?

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Speaker 1: Isaac got there. Isaac is an incredible character who I

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Speaker 1: immediately missed and was like, well, we you had such

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Speaker 1: a great introduction, and where was he this episode? I

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Speaker 1: need more time with Isaac, and I feel like we

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Speaker 1: haven't gotten a great balance between these different factions. Not

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Speaker 1: enough to know that I should be scared of both,

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Speaker 1: enough to know that their conflict is one that goes

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Speaker 1: way back and has no foreseeable end at this point

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Speaker 1: in time, but not enough to be like, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 1: when these two people are fighting, I'm so scared. I

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Speaker 1: have no idea who's gonna win. I don't know who

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Speaker 1: I want to win it. I know it's very clear

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Speaker 1: everybody else is strangers, and so that's really a challenge,

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Speaker 1: I think. And then two, because I really like at

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Speaker 1: least storyline this season, but I do think the rise

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Speaker 1: and fall and tention of it is not as strong

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Speaker 1: as season one, and because of that, you're sort of

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Speaker 1: just feel displaced a bit in the story and that

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Speaker 1: you're all over the place you still care. Production design

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Speaker 1: is still good, costuming, it's still hitting, performances are still there,

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Speaker 1: but it feels like it's lacking sort of the deep

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Speaker 1: emotional heart like gut wrenching moments. I have moments where

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Speaker 1: I'm like you of fear, but not moments of oh

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Speaker 1: my god, my poor heart, like what are we going

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Speaker 1: to do? How we're going to make it through this?

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Speaker 1: And I think that was sort of what a lot

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Speaker 1: of people were connecting to in the Last of Us.

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Speaker 1: And maybe it's that our own reality has driven that

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Speaker 1: emotion so high that we are now like the balance

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Speaker 1: is out of whack when we're watching it on the show,

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Speaker 1: but it's it's difficult. Yeah, I'm sort of in the

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Speaker 1: middle of there.

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Speaker 5: I guess common You are a non gameplayer, right, you

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Speaker 5: and I, You and Aaron both. So would you guys

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Speaker 5: talk a little bit about how you are enjoying this season,

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Speaker 5: because in the discord, I have to say, are non

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Speaker 5: gameplayer TV only fans. They have actually been very positive

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Speaker 5: about this season, So I would love to hear you

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Speaker 5: guys kind of talk about that a bit more.

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Speaker 7: I will say, for myself, I feel a lot less

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Speaker 7: emotionally invested in this season than I did the first season.

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Speaker 7: I think the first season did a really good job

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Speaker 7: of getting me like emotionally invested in the characters, even

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Speaker 7: in the like uh, I mean, of course, that Bottle

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Speaker 7: episode in the first season is the one that really

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Speaker 7: was like, Oh, this show is awesome. And so I

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Speaker 7: think in watching the second season and who I am,

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Speaker 7: I am watching with my boyfriend who who has played

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Speaker 7: the games. So I'm watching it with a game player

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Speaker 7: who is like obsessed with the moments that are like

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Speaker 7: so like he's obsessed with the moments that are like

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Speaker 7: directly from the game. He's like, Oh, this is so amazing.

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Speaker 7: You know, this is directly from the game. And you know, yeah,

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Speaker 7: I'm kind of more I kind of stand more where

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Speaker 7: y'all do. With like the the song went on a

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Speaker 7: little bit long certain things, I'm starting to feel like, Okay,

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Speaker 7: that's not very realistic in a show that has kind

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Speaker 7: of always previously been very very realistic. So I am

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Speaker 7: struggling a little bit more with the second season as

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Speaker 7: a non game watcher. I feel like I feel like this,

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Speaker 7: you know, I feel like it's made maybe a little

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Speaker 7: bit more to appeal to the game players.

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Speaker 6: How about Yeah, that's interesting because again, haven't played the

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Speaker 6: second game, and I did feel like season one had

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Speaker 6: these major action set pieces that felt right out of

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Speaker 6: the game, like the sniping from the tower, like there

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Speaker 6: were things that just felt like, Oh, as someone who's

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Speaker 6: played video games my entire life, this feels like a

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Speaker 6: video game scene. This season, it doesn't feel like these

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Speaker 6: major set pieces are necessarily like I can't imagine how

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Speaker 6: the attack on Jackson Hole would have been in the game,

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Speaker 6: if it was at all. And I'm finding myself enjoying

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Speaker 6: season two quite a bit even without any point of

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Speaker 6: reference for it. The individual verse group conversation, I think,

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Speaker 6: is one that I have struggled with a little bit

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Speaker 6: because I felt like season one was so beautifully focused

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Speaker 6: on individuals. Even within the groups, you find yourself having

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Speaker 6: these horribly sad stories around the guy that they meet

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Speaker 6: and his little brother, like that is just so haunting.

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Speaker 6: And then in this one, other than Isaac, we really

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Speaker 6: I don't feel a strong connection to any individual within

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Speaker 6: any of these new groups that's been introduced other than like, well,

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Speaker 6: like I said, Isaac, But part of that is just

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Speaker 6: because I know who plays him, and that seems like

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Speaker 6: it's going to be a really important role. So I

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Speaker 6: do think that while I love, love, love love Dina,

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Speaker 6: and I think like she is brings us great energy

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Speaker 6: to the show, and so I really like her introduction

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Speaker 6: to the traveling unit of you know, like at its core,

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Speaker 6: this show's a road trip no matter what, and like

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Speaker 6: we are once again with this great little Buddy Cup

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Speaker 6: road trip, except it's just these two high school girls

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Speaker 6: who are on revenge, out for revenge to kill another

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Speaker 6: high school girl kind of thing, like you know, it's

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Speaker 6: it's due revenge, but in Zombie Apocalypse. But so I

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Speaker 6: think there's there have been things that I know people

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Speaker 6: have had problems with based off the game, and I

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Speaker 6: think having no context whatsoever, I have just enjoyed it

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Speaker 6: more because it all just is like, oh, they're moving

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Speaker 6: the story along here. There have been a few things

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Speaker 6: that feel like, oh, they got here faster than I expected,

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Speaker 6: but nothing feels like, oh, they're just pushing it to

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Speaker 6: get to level six and now here we are we

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Speaker 6: have to get do this to get to level seven

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Speaker 6: kind of thing. So I've enjoyed it, and maybe that

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Speaker 6: is just because I haven't seen the video game.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I'll say as a game player part

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Speaker 2: of and I like the show. I want to be

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Speaker 2: clear that I like the show. It's just I thought

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Speaker 2: that season one sent an incredibly high bar that season

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Speaker 2: two is not hitting for me. It's kind of like

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Speaker 2: I've seen it, you know, when scenes unfold that our beat.

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Speaker 4: For beat like out of the game.

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Speaker 2: It's a little bit like, well, I did this, and

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Speaker 2: I saw exactly this scene. I know exactly what it's

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Speaker 2: where it's going. And I thought that season one, again,

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Speaker 2: your mileage by vary. Some people might be like, listen,

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Speaker 2: the Last of Us two is the greatest piece of

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Speaker 2: storytelling that's ever happened.

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Speaker 4: Don't you dare you love that thing? Fine? That's fine.

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Speaker 2: I you know, personally, I like the I love how

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Speaker 2: season one elevated the material and and used the different

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Speaker 2: space allowed in a visual medium in a story, that

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Speaker 2: storytelling medium of television to like widen things out and

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Speaker 2: deepen certain things, and how it used your disconne disconnection

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Speaker 2: with the characters, you know, because you play as Joel,

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Speaker 2: you play as Elis who experience things differently, to allow

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Speaker 2: that perspective to like move around to different characters, to

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Speaker 2: NPCs like Bill that who you just encounter and never

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Speaker 2: really know anything about in the game. And so for me,

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Speaker 2: that's what takes this show up a notch and makes

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Speaker 2: it different than you know, every other post apocalyptic kind

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Speaker 2: of road train slash zombie apocalypse movie that's out there,

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Speaker 2: of which there are many, many, many, and it helps

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Speaker 2: it avoid you know, for me, one of the big

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Speaker 2: I tune down on The Walking Dead not just because

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Speaker 2: of the story, because I started to feel like this

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Speaker 2: is just kind of like wish fulfillment for people like

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Speaker 2: who hope that a civil war breaks out so they

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Speaker 2: can like kill their neighbors, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: Like it's just like people who want to be like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I think I could be a warlord, like in Tulsa,

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Speaker 2: like after civilization falls, Like people who just want to

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Speaker 2: cosplay in that kind of headspace. And The Last of

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Speaker 2: Us never does that. It's or at least it does

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Speaker 2: it a little more this season, but it's still like

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Speaker 2: this human story about life and about how important life is,

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Speaker 2: and about trying to rebuild society in some kind of better,

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Speaker 2: more just version as they're doing Jackson.

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Speaker 4: That's the thing that I really respond to.

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Speaker 2: So I think the show again, I can really see

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Speaker 2: how if we weren't aware of the game, you might

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Speaker 2: be enjoying it more than if you had then if

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Speaker 2: you'd played a lot hours.

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Speaker 4: In the last of US.

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Speaker 5: Two, I would say, I feel like you pretty much

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Speaker 5: summed up how I feel.

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Speaker 3: Jason, like, no surprise, we always agree.

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Speaker 5: But like I will say, I do think something that

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Speaker 5: season one was so incredible at was taking the vibe

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Speaker 5: of the game, or kind of the feeling of playing

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Speaker 5: the game and translating it while also expanding our understanding

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Speaker 5: of the world and our understanding of the world building

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Speaker 5: and our understanding.

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Speaker 3: Of the actions of the characters.

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Speaker 5: Like the finale. We've talked a lot about how that

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Speaker 5: kind of makes a pretty direct statement on the more

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Speaker 5: ambiguous ending of the game where you were kind of

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Speaker 5: left to feel how do you feel about Joel after

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Speaker 5: the game and the end of the first season, they

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Speaker 5: did such a great job making it this kind of

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Speaker 5: terrifying realistic like mass murder, and I think that this

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Speaker 5: season they're doing a little bit more direct adaptation of

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Speaker 5: beats from the game, which I do feel like was

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Speaker 5: not as much of a point in the first season,

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Speaker 5: aside from like it is an adaptation, But yeah, for me,

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Speaker 5: I have the same feeling.

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Speaker 3: I'm also interested let's go to a quick.

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Speaker 5: Break, but afterwards, I'm interested to talk to you guys

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Speaker 5: about like the length of this season, the way they're

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Speaker 5: doing storytelling, because I think that has impacted.

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Speaker 2: A Yeah, let's talk about so only seven episodes for

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Speaker 2: the last of US season two. It feels short. I

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Speaker 2: mean season one was nine that felt short as well.

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Speaker 2: If you know, to me, anything less than ten feels

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Speaker 2: like not a full season of TV, especially if it's

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Speaker 2: an hour our drama. How do y'all feel about seven

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Speaker 2: episodes and how do you feel about the pacing thus far?

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Speaker 2: Like are you looking ahead and thinking, oh, man, I

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Speaker 2: wonder how they can land this thing in three more episodes? Joelle,

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Speaker 2: let's start with you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, I as a little insider baseball, but I've

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Speaker 1: known for a while that episode six is our standalone

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Speaker 1: flashback episode. The end of episode five sort of tips

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Speaker 1: you off to where we're going there, and I feel

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Speaker 1: like it's hard right because Okay, in this episode, in

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Speaker 1: episode five, we get the stalkers and one of the

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Speaker 1: genuinely such a horrifying scene, which brought me back to

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Speaker 1: episode one with the first encounterment soccer, which is was

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Speaker 1: the highlight of the season so far for me, Like

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Speaker 1: these horror element moments that we're getting into our spookier

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Speaker 1: than they previously, or there's something terribly about a horride

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Speaker 1: of zombies you they oh gosh, there's so many of

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Speaker 1: them that's really challenging, versus a predator situation where you're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm being hunted now, flipping the script in that way,

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Speaker 1: and then sort of pairing that with this fear of

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Speaker 1: losing people, or or really more an examination of what

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Speaker 1: is it to let go? Like how does that happen

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Speaker 1: when it's it quote successful and what does it cost

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Speaker 1: or what are the sacrifices being made? Is intriguing, and

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Speaker 1: yet I feel they haven't gone very far with it.

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Speaker 1: I still feel like we're at the introduction of it,

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Speaker 1: you know, at the introduction of these thoughts, and so

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Speaker 1: therefore I'm kind of I just I yes, I don't

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Speaker 1: love the pacing of the show. It's been a struggle

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Speaker 1: to get through in that I feel like I'm always

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Speaker 1: looking for more. But that being said, I've never wanted

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Speaker 1: to not watch the series. I'm like intrigued and invested

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Speaker 1: in the like the next hap ings. I need to know.

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Speaker 1: The Ellie and Gina thing is so it's terrifying to

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Speaker 1: me because I'm like, when is the explosion going to happen?

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Speaker 1: At some point Ellie has to turn into Dina and

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Speaker 1: be like you, part of this is your fault, Like

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Speaker 1: you messed up. Like I just feel like there must

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Speaker 1: be a resentment somewhere and we're not quite getting there.

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Speaker 1: Maybe we're getting it a little bit with they're not

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Speaker 1: boyfriend slash best friend kind of situation jumping back into

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Speaker 1: the picture, but their emotional journey has been one of

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Speaker 1: like we're besties and we understand each other and we're

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Speaker 1: moving forward. And every time Ellie runs into a situation

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Speaker 1: where you should not be doing this, Dina doesn't. She's like,

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Speaker 1: I'm with you. I have one hundreds understand you. And

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Speaker 1: so therefore that had that really drove these and one

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Speaker 1: is not here.

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Speaker 2: That's a That's a great point, Joelle, because I think

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Speaker 2: that is I'm realizing something I've been reacting to too

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Speaker 2: is I think Dina is an incredible character and I

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Speaker 2: just love four of her and I think part of

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Speaker 2: of what I feel like I'm missing is that is

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Speaker 2: that complexity that tension. We just found out or she

393
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Speaker 2: just found out that Ellie has been lying to her

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Speaker 2: about a thing the whole time they've known each other,

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Speaker 2: and that seems to be not a problem at all.

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Speaker 2: Where is that tension and will it ever emerge?

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Speaker 4: I think is a good question.

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Speaker 5: I also think that they The reason I think it

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Speaker 5: feels tangible that we're missing it is because they touch

400
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Speaker 5: on it when Ellie and Dina come back together and

401
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Speaker 5: Dina kind of reveals what she learned and who killed Joel,

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Speaker 5: and there is a moment where you kind of get

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Speaker 5: like Ellie is the Joel now and Dina is the

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Speaker 5: kind of young.

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Speaker 3: Like, let's talk about it.

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Speaker 5: But I feel like they haven't kept up that dynamic,

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Speaker 5: which I would have liked to see go a little

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Speaker 5: bit longer.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's tricky too because it's almost become Dina's mission.

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Speaker 2: Ellie would have would have gotten like five hundred yards

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Speaker 2: outside of Jackson before she got mercury, had no food,

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Speaker 2: in bad shoes and like no mass bullets, you know,

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Speaker 2: and no horse, like she would have just been walking.

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Speaker 2: So to see Dina take over to this level has

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Speaker 2: been really fun. But to your point, I do wish

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Speaker 2: there was more to that relationship than just Dina activating

417
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Speaker 2: this mission in all the ways that that Ellie.

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Speaker 5: Can't Aaron without knowing kind of where it's going In

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Speaker 5: the same way, do you feel does it us being

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Speaker 5: five episodes in, does it feel like it's going to

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Speaker 5: be hard for them to wrap up this season in

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Speaker 5: two episodes?

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Speaker 3: Or do is it just feel like you're excited to

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Speaker 3: see whatever comes next.

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Speaker 6: I think I'm just excited to see what comes next

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Speaker 6: because I know there's gonna be another season and I

427
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Speaker 6: don't logically know where. I assume this one is going

428
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Speaker 6: to end with some confrontation between Ellie and Abby, and

429
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Speaker 6: I know, gee, this isn't a spoiler, but I know

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Speaker 6: that Abby is a playable character in the second game,

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Speaker 6: and so that is fascinating to me, like we did

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Speaker 6: have They did that so well, I thought in episode two,

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Speaker 6: and you talk about this in the recap, where we

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Speaker 6: follow Abby for a large part of that episode, and

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Speaker 6: we see her in danger running from the zombies, and

436
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Speaker 6: we feel for her and we sympathize with her until

437
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Speaker 6: all of a sudden she runs into Jol and it's like, oh,

438
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Speaker 6: wait a minute, no, this is She's out for revenge too,

439
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Speaker 6: and she's about to do something to one of our

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Speaker 6: main characters. So I don't doubt that they can make

441
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:26,919
Speaker 6: us feel for Abby again and make that a compelling storyline. Truly,

442
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:28,880
Speaker 6: I don't know what happens when the two of them meet,

443
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,480
Speaker 6: so that is very fascinating to me. I cannot wait

444
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 6: for that. And I think this show has done a

445
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:37,240
Speaker 6: really good job of every time there is an episode

446
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:39,240
Speaker 6: or a long chunk of time where I feel like

447
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:42,320
Speaker 6: stuff's not really happening, then all of a sudden we

448
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 6: get some major thing. And that is what I think

449
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 6: what Joelle is talking about, where like maybe the pacing

450
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:52,359
Speaker 6: is off, but every other episode we get a huge

451
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:57,680
Speaker 6: piece of candy that we love and so I, oh, sorry,

452
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,120
Speaker 6: go ahead, no, no, no, no, yeah. So I'm really enjoying

453
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 6: that part of it.

454
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:04,119
Speaker 2: I wanted to ask you, Carmen and Aaron as non

455
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:07,440
Speaker 2: game players, because I think one of the critiques I've

456
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 2: seen from the game centric audience who are a little

457
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 2: disappointed in this show is like, why did they nerf

458
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 2: Ellie this much? So by the time you're at this

459
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 2: point in the story in the game as Ellie, you've

460
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:28,160
Speaker 2: probably killed I don't know, thousand bags, like not a thousand,

461
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:31,440
Speaker 2: but like fifty maybe fifty people, maybe maybe thirty.

462
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 3: Including season one, I mean game one.

463
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 2: I think, well, just on a mission, just on it,

464
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,399
Speaker 2: just on the mission, just going to Seattle, leaving Jackson,

465
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 2: maybe you've killed thirty forty people or something. To me,

466
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,399
Speaker 2: to put that on the screen is to make this

467
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,360
Speaker 2: show a completely different show than it was established as

468
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 2: it season. Now you're watching John Wick or something, right,

469
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:54,680
Speaker 2: that's greazy, right, but like.

470
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 4: How do you so, how would you respond to that?

471
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:03,880
Speaker 2: Seeing it a game accurate Ellie light out from Jackson

472
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,720
Speaker 2: with another nineteen year old and then like kill I

473
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 2: don't know, like twenty WLF members on the trot after

474
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 2: they get caught up in the in the former news

475
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 2: offices or whatever.

476
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,399
Speaker 7: I mean personally, that wouldn't work for me in terms

477
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,680
Speaker 7: of like, okay, realistic storytelling. I would just be like, Okay,

478
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 7: this is absolutely ridiculous, you know. And so obviously I

479
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:33,640
Speaker 7: think what maybe would I think, what maybe would people

480
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 7: would respond better to is if maybe the writing of

481
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 7: Ellie and you guys have talked about this many times,

482
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 7: like this has been brought up, but maybe if the

483
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 7: writing of Ellie and Dina was just a little bit

484
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:50,879
Speaker 7: more in depth and a little bit more like I

485
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,120
Speaker 7: feel like they could they could be providing, as you said,

486
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,639
Speaker 7: they could level it up for the for the show

487
00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:00,119
Speaker 7: by adding like an additional emotional layer to Ellien, you

488
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 7: know that we already haven't gotten in the video game.

489
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 7: So I just don't think making it more like the

490
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 7: video game in that sense is going to be a

491
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 7: realistic crout for.

492
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:13,159
Speaker 5: Yeah, about the logic of the show and what the

493
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 5: show establishes in the first season and the opening episodes

494
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 5: of this season, and I just don't think there's any

495
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 5: way that them going out there and like just like

496
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 5: lighting everyone up and like, I.

497
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 3: Feel like she's pick an ass though absolutely she keeps surviving.

498
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 5: I also think something interesting is like they kind of

499
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,360
Speaker 5: replaced her like ability to kill now with her ability

500
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 5: to survive. She is getting strategy, and I think that

501
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 5: is interesting. How, Aaron, how would that kind of tone

502
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:45,440
Speaker 5: shift work for you?

503
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:50,040
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think Carmen said a really appropriate thing. Karmen

504
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,680
Speaker 6: said level up, And like in video games, we are

505
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 6: trained to watch our main character or our playable character

506
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 6: level up as a go through harder and harder challenges

507
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 6: and fight harder and harder enemies, and therefore you trust

508
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 6: that they can take on the boss or the huge

509
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 6: situation when that happens. And that doesn't really happen in

510
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 6: screen because every superhero movie has one moment when the

511
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 6: hero realizes their power and powers up or reaches their

512
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 6: full potential. They don't have the time to do that

513
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 6: six times and like change your class and multi class

514
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:27,639
Speaker 6: over here and learn a new skill. That's that's a

515
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:31,120
Speaker 6: video game thing. So I totally get that they would

516
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:32,879
Speaker 6: not be able to do that in the show. I

517
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:34,919
Speaker 6: don't know how you would write it differently to be

518
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 6: maybe more successful than it is now.

519
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:40,640
Speaker 5: But I think the connection of like, is somebody bad

520
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 5: ass because they've killed a bunch of people, Maybe that's

521
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 5: something in the American consciousness we should like consider anyway.

522
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 5: So I think that's kind of a cool thing that

523
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 5: they're not going that route, you know, to show that.

524
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 3: I mean, she sort of just kills them with a pipe.

525
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 7: As we said, want to murder, staffing and survival. That

526
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,359
Speaker 7: is a strategy, just as you know, going guns of

527
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 7: blazing as a strategy. So it's like she's you. I

528
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 7: would think maybe if they had drawn more comparisons to

529
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,119
Speaker 7: how and they have done this a little bit, but

530
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 7: if they had emphasized it more, if they had emphasized

531
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 7: more about how Ellie is kind of becoming more like Joel.

532
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:16,920
Speaker 7: I think they kind of leaned into that a little

533
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,399
Speaker 7: bit more. It might help to.

534
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:30,439
Speaker 2: Let's do a quick ranking of zombified enemies. Where do

535
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 2: you puts infected in terms of like the cannon of

536
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 2: all times zombies or undead monsters, so like, you know,

537
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 2: the Chatari, the White Walkers, the Walking Dead, zombies, et cetera.

538
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 1: Where do you put Cordy steps infected? Okay, I will

539
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 1: say this first. The spore situation of all elevate you

540
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 1: this episode, I'm like, probably just a little bit below

541
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 1: White Walkers. You know, they're cool, the design element is nice,

542
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 1: and they're creepy. The fact that they can sense you

543
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 1: from far away is a really cool feature. Not all

544
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 1: zombies have. You know, you have to be quiet usually,

545
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 1: but this one is like, if you touch me in

546
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 1: a forest one hundred miles away, I know you're there

547
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:21,719
Speaker 1: and I'll send them to you. That's fucking crazy, but

548
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: now I will send me keep you alive. To the

549
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 1: point where I was like, are they conscious. This is

550
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 1: so scary.

551
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 5: I'm saying, like, if you're ranking them like fear wise,

552
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 5: I think for me, this is the scariest version because

553
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 5: especially recently biased with episode five, but that notion of

554
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:46,719
Speaker 5: not just how terrifying a stalker or a bloater or

555
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 5: any of the different versions of the Cordycepts zombies that

556
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 5: we get, but just also like the horror of being infected,

557
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 5: of transforming. There's quite a cosmic horror element to the

558
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 5: kind of like you are part of the hive mind,

559
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 5: like you are being built into the wall and the

560
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 5: fungus is growing on you. Like that is scarier to

561
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 5: me than the white Walker. Like the white Walker is

562
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 5: gonna just come up to me and be like, ohh

563
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 5: bit to stab you because I'm taking over the Seven Kingdoms.

564
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 3: It's like a famous English actor.

565
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 5: I'm like, okay, but I think I'm scared of a

566
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 5: running zombie, like a twenty eight Days the kind of

567
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 5: running zombie.

568
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 3: But that's like secondary to me.

569
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 5: I think these are some of, if not the most

570
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 5: horrific zombies we've seen common Europeic horred.

571
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 3: So when your and you.

572
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 7: Gave me a perfect you gave me a perfect segue too,

573
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 7: because I literally I just watched twenty eight days later

574
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 7: this weekend, and I think it might be a recency bias.

575
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 7: But here is my ranking. I've got to say it's

576
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 7: got to be the rage virus is then every one

577
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 7: most scary thing to be. I agree that that is

578
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 7: so scary because first movie where they're fast zombies and

579
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 7: they're also acknowledging the fact that the virus has transmitted

580
00:30:55,800 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 7: through blood. Second would be I would definitely say the

581
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 7: Cordyceps zombies. They're terrifying. I like that they are varied.

582
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 7: There's like different types that they can manifest as, and

583
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 7: so I would be scared of a stalker. I don't

584
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 7: think I would be as scared of like just one

585
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 7: of like the regular droning ones, you know what I mean. Okay,

586
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 7: you could take a clicker, Yeah, I could take a clicker.

587
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 4: Yeah.

588
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 7: A third third in the ranking for me would be

589
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 7: And this one's controversial because they're kind of vampires and zombies,

590
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 7: but the strain I.

591
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 1: Have, Oh that's so scary.

592
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,239
Speaker 5: You're not a horror guy, So are these just like

593
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 5: the scariest zombies you've ever seen?

594
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 6: Or have you?

595
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 3: Do you have other zombie knowledge.

596
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 6: I think it's it's a shame we're not putting the

597
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 6: White Walkers first because they have the Syrian so you

598
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 6: can have as many landed zombies as you want.

599
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 2: You have they done, they do have an ace dragon.

600
00:31:58,040 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 1: Yeah.

601
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 6: Second, I would say would be infect and I think

602
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 6: third would be World War Z where they like climb

603
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 6: on to themselves to the walls. That's terrifying to me.

604
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 2: I have to clue because yeah, that's true. Yeah, that's

605
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,239
Speaker 2: they figured that out. Okay, so let me see, let

606
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 2: me do my ranking would be I actually think Cordy

607
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 2: Steps might be the scariest because of the spoor thing

608
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 2: like the blood, the the the rage infected theoretically because

609
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 2: it moves. The infection happens like within thirty seconds of

610
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 2: like a blood to blood event. I think theoretically like

611
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 2: it could burn out quicker, like there's a very little

612
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 2: chance of oh my god, this guy I'm in the

613
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 2: room with is infected, like you would know right away,

614
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 2: so that you're cutting off those kind of events where

615
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 2: somebody who's like mildly infected develops the infection over the

616
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 2: course of like a day, and in that time infects

617
00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 2: everybody in your in your town or five village or whatever.

618
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 2: So I think the spores make it scarier. I also

619
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 2: think that the twenty eight the Rage zombies, it's like

620
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 2: they're just like regular people who are driven completely insane

621
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 2: by this virus. So when winter comes, when the seasons change,

622
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 2: like they'll just die.

623
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, just die, They'll.

624
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 1: Just die out, Just let die, you know.

625
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 2: Whereas as we've yeah, as we've seen with the Cordy Steps,

626
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 2: they just they have other kind of survival strategies and

627
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 2: then the big boss ones just keep going. And so

628
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 2: I think I would put I think I would put

629
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 2: Courty SEPs.

630
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 4: At the top, ahead of Rage, ahead of.

631
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 2: World War Ze movie version, and certainly ahead of all

632
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 2: of the kind of shambling the Night of the Living Dead,

633
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 2: Day of the Dead, Dawn of the Dead style shambling hordes,

634
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 2: which are like, honestly, who cares.

635
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 3: It's not like you could.

636
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 1: Take you walk away from I mean a machine gun.

637
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 1: And we've seen the Zach Snider.

638
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:11,399
Speaker 3: Then surprisingly good.

639
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 5: But yeah, Aaron and Jason, just before we go to

640
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 5: another ad break, as the musicians, I need you guys

641
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:20,840
Speaker 5: to talk about at lea is guitar.

642
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 6: What's going on.

643
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 3: With the guitar playing. Is Bella playing the guitar?

644
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,840
Speaker 6: Aaron, your thoughts, Okay, so Bella is playing a guitar.

645
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 6: Bella is not playing the guitar part that is in

646
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:34,879
Speaker 6: the recording. And I went back and rewatched the performance.

647
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 6: Bella is actually playing, I believe, the same chords. But

648
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 6: it is a very fingerpicked song where there is inside baseball,

649
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 6: there's use of fingers as well as thumb. Bella is

650
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 6: only using thumb to basically strum out the root note

651
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 6: in the five of each chord. She's changing chords at

652
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 6: the right time, and you know, I believe that they're

653
00:34:56,080 --> 00:35:00,200
Speaker 6: playing the structure of the song correctly and they just

654
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 6: had to learn it that way and just couldn't do

655
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 6: it live on screen. I don't know if they're the

656
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:08,320
Speaker 6: ones playing it in the recording or not. Uh, they're

657
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 6: not playing that part of the guitar.

658
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 3: This is when come Thanks very Vision for Yeah musical, No.

659
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 2: This is I found this controversy somewhat weird, I guess

660
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 2: based around the fact that Mason is like, oh no,

661
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:27,720
Speaker 2: that's them, that's them playing it. But again, I think,

662
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 2: you know, I think that's kind of not it's clearly

663
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 2: not all the way accurate, because this is I don't

664
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 2: think they did that live on set. I think this

665
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 2: studio record. They recorded it in a studio, right, and

666
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:45,320
Speaker 2: then eighty yard it on top of the live performance

667
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 2: on the set, which is totally fine. But the way

668
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 2: that payment, I.

669
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:53,920
Speaker 4: Think is phrased, leads.

670
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 2: You to believe that, like, yeah, on the day we

671
00:35:56,200 --> 00:36:00,080
Speaker 2: rolled camera and they just they just went and we

672
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:02,280
Speaker 2: just taped it and we took like the best version

673
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 2: of like that didn't happen.

674
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 4: It recurs in the studio.

675
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 5: Be fad to ask Bella to do that if that's

676
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:09,319
Speaker 5: not something they're already doing.

677
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,439
Speaker 3: And Bella did a great job, did a great job.

678
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:13,799
Speaker 3: But I'm glad that the.

679
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 5: Guitar lovers and the musicians were able to establish that

680
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:18,879
Speaker 5: as it has been a conversation piece.

681
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,799
Speaker 3: Let's go to a message from our sponsors and we'll

682
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 3: be read. How about our back.

683
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 2: Finally, Okay, Pedro Pascal, there's been a he left us

684
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:49,759
Speaker 2: as the gailers expected to leave us.

685
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:53,880
Speaker 5: Non gamers did not expect, as the messages, the messages

686
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 5: in my WhatsApp told me.

687
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:57,279
Speaker 3: When everyone I knew watched.

688
00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 2: It was a nine ned stark death kind of impact

689
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 2: for this show for the non game players. How do

690
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:11,720
Speaker 2: you think the show's going without him thus far? Joelle,

691
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 2: Let's start with you.

692
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 1: Well, I think that there was a stronger understanding of

693
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:27,280
Speaker 1: who that character was, what made him interesting, and because

694
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 1: you start with such a singular focus. Joel's world was

695
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:33,760
Speaker 1: his daughter. His daughter was taken, the whole world burned,

696
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:36,840
Speaker 1: but he's still not over the initial loss of his daughter.

697
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,800
Speaker 1: Here comes another person who can sort of fill that void.

698
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 1: He will do anything to protect her. That is a

699
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 1: very straightforward line, you understand fully from the top, Like

700
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 1: what's going on where I'm at with Ellie is like

701
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:55,760
Speaker 1: Ellie survived a bunch of loss, her worst fear came true,

702
00:37:55,920 --> 00:38:01,840
Speaker 1: and now she's lost, which is interesting, But it's challenging

703
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 1: to connect to that when the feeling of that loss

704
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 1: feels very distant. And by this I mean yes, she's like, Okay,

705
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:18,359
Speaker 1: I'm going to go avenge my father. I will stop

706
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 1: at nothing great. Do you push other people away when

707
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 1: you do that? Typically that's the thing that happens when

708
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:28,399
Speaker 1: you become singularly focused. You're not as focused on the

709
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:32,719
Speaker 1: health of everybody else. Typically that has an alienating effect.

710
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 1: I think too. When you're keeping a lot of secrets,

711
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 1: when they start to be revealed, there's like a vulnerability

712
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 1: of exposure that causes people to do a whole slew

713
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 1: of different types of things depending on who they are

714
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,359
Speaker 1: and where they're at. But we're not really seeing like

715
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,400
Speaker 1: you feel unraveled if your job has been to protect

716
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 1: these secrets and now they're out, and I just feel

717
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 1: like we're not. I don't feel Ellie's sliding. I feel like, oh,

718
00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 1: Elia's got a girlfriend, now, that's awesome. They seem to

719
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 1: really like each other and mission is going according to plan.

720
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:05,879
Speaker 1: Mostly I'm a side but thank god he was here.

721
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 1: He swooped right in save them. That was great. Yeah,

722
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:14,919
Speaker 1: And because of that, it's sort of you're just like, well,

723
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 1: I'm lost now and I don't have a good villain

724
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 1: to fall back on, which is typically really helpful. It's

725
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 1: not something the show has needed in the past. But

726
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 1: I just say, if you're gonna introduce Jeffrey Wright and

727
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 1: he's gonna be that great, maybe he's the focus for

728
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 1: a little bit, Like maybe he's the counterweight too. I

729
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:33,319
Speaker 1: think a strong counterweight to what Ellie is doing consistently

730
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:36,760
Speaker 1: might have also been a great point for the show

731
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 1: to pivot off of. So I think we are feeling

732
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 1: the absence of Joel. That being said, I am invested

733
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,400
Speaker 1: in the story of Ellie, and I think and with

734
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 1: the understanding that I also really liked about the show

735
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:52,719
Speaker 1: is that it feels like the show has always been

736
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:56,479
Speaker 1: the last of us, and the US was vital because

737
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:59,439
Speaker 1: we're constantly spinning off into these other stories and that

738
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:02,319
Speaker 1: had become so interesting. And what I'm thinking about now

739
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,319
Speaker 1: is those stories are wrapped up really quickly, so you

740
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:09,799
Speaker 1: understand the the importance and what the US you were

741
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:12,879
Speaker 1: visiting was trying to tell you about the world, because

742
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 1: you're getting a getting middle end really quick. And right now,

743
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:18,319
Speaker 1: I don't know what's going on with Isaac. I saw

744
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:19,879
Speaker 1: him have a term, but I don't know where it's going,

745
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 1: right And so yeah, I think without those like more

746
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:27,680
Speaker 1: vignetted sort of feeling for the pacing, and without Joel

747
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 1: to sort of ground you in, Oh my God, like

748
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 1: he's like we lived his biggest fear with him, we

749
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:37,440
Speaker 1: lived Ellie's too, But I don't know something about like

750
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 1: where it's positioned in the show, Like that's where we start.

751
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:44,759
Speaker 1: We see the before and after very clearly. It's it's

752
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 1: just the feels a little less meaningful in its direction

753
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:50,879
Speaker 1: than when we had Joel.

754
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:53,799
Speaker 5: I would also say it's harder, I think, for them

755
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:57,799
Speaker 5: to make it as obviously emotionally stark because Ellie now

756
00:40:57,840 --> 00:40:59,399
Speaker 5: has the community of Jackson Hall.

757
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:00,800
Speaker 3: That's not the same.

758
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 5: But I do think that it feels a little less

759
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:06,359
Speaker 5: urgent in the way that they've presented.

760
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:09,359
Speaker 1: Right because she chose to leave a safe space when

761
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 1: Joel had no safe space to return to. Yeah, that's

762
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:14,800
Speaker 1: a great point. Rosie also as well, I will.

763
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 5: Say my personal feeling about this. We talked about it

764
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:19,319
Speaker 5: a lot, but in listening to our conversation talk to us,

765
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:23,440
Speaker 5: I also do think that ironically, a little more of

766
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:25,839
Speaker 5: the way that the game told the story, in that

767
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:28,719
Speaker 5: we were in Abby's perspective for a longer time, I

768
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:31,320
Speaker 5: think that is missing from this episode.

769
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 1: The counter.

770
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 3: I want to know about.

771
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 5: I think an opening you could have had an Abbey

772
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 5: Bottle episode. You could have had something like that, and

773
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:41,879
Speaker 5: I think it would have made it less stark when

774
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:42,479
Speaker 5: we lost Pedro.

775
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 3: But also I just want to say, Pedro Pascal is like.

776
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:47,400
Speaker 5: A fucking generational talent and I do also think this

777
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:49,879
Speaker 5: was always going to be an issue for the show.

778
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,759
Speaker 5: And it's not that Bella isn't Isabella McCart isn't, because

779
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:54,840
Speaker 5: they are both going to do incredible things and already

780
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 5: are doing incredible things. But it's very hard when, like

781
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 5: Carmen said, the show had deep understanding of who Joel was,

782
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 5: and it doesn't necessarily seem to have it for some

783
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 5: of the other characters.

784
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:09,799
Speaker 2: In the same way, I want to pivot off something

785
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 2: you said, Joel, which I think is really great.

786
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 4: It is that this show is called.

787
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:16,120
Speaker 2: The Last of Us, and it's I think the way

788
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 2: that I perceive that for shows like this, for post

789
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:23,279
Speaker 2: apocalyptic shows, is.

790
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 4: Are our characters going.

791
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 2: To like give into the primal violence, the nihilism and

792
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 2: have this idea that, well, this is the way the

793
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 2: world is now. You're allowed to kill people and murder

794
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 2: people and take their stuff, and you know, the the

795
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:48,800
Speaker 2: level by which you could accelerate to like fatal violence

796
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:51,319
Speaker 2: is like actually pretty low and that makes sense in

797
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 2: this world. Or are you going to try to And

798
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 2: this is what I feel like the Last of Us

799
00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 2: is what makes it so good, is are you going

800
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 2: to try to maintain some of the things that were

801
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 2: actually good about the world that is now gone, like

802
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 2: about empathy, about valuing people's lives, about like not killing

803
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:14,520
Speaker 2: people just because you disagree with them, you know, because

804
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 2: you think they might pose.

805
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 4: A threat to you.

806
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:22,759
Speaker 2: And it's that that, I feel like elevates this show

807
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:25,319
Speaker 2: and what I feel like. And even though I never

808
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:27,800
Speaker 2: really thought about it before, I've always kind of perceived

809
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 2: The Last of Us as meaning that, like, how do

810
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:35,239
Speaker 2: we hold on to this little island of community, of

811
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:41,240
Speaker 2: of you know, equality in a world that has completely fallen.

812
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:45,880
Speaker 2: How do we not become whatever they're doing in Seattle

813
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:46,880
Speaker 2: on either side?

814
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 3: You know?

815
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:51,359
Speaker 4: How do we not do that? And when the show

816
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 4: holds that part of it.

817
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 2: Up, I think it's I think it's exceptional, and I

818
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 2: think I'm glad you brought that up to all, because

819
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 2: it's not. It's I hadn't really thought about it in

820
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:01,360
Speaker 2: those terms before.

821
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 1: I had to find a friend a lot about whether

822
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:07,719
Speaker 1: a long long time belonged in the Sties or not.

823
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 1: They're adamant that it didn't, and I was like, this

824
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:11,040
Speaker 1: show is called The Last of Us. We need to

825
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 1: see the us who were the who were detective? What

826
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,399
Speaker 1: are we saving It's just like when I'm watching Star

827
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 1: Wars back in the day when I was like, we're

828
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:19,439
Speaker 1: always up here with the high people, we're with low people,

829
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 1: and now we have and or stay with low people.

830
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 1: That's where the stories are good. What did you think,

831
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 1: Carman about, like just where the show is good? Do

832
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 1: you feel like the direction of it? Do you feel

833
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 1: like you know where it's going? Are you good with

834
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 1: where it's at?

835
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:39,440
Speaker 7: I will say this season, I'm having hope that, you know,

836
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:42,319
Speaker 7: the third season will kind of pick up its pace

837
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:44,280
Speaker 7: again and kind of figure out some of these kinks,

838
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 7: because for me, this second season it feels like a

839
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 7: little bit of like an in between, kind of truncated.

840
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, one and a half almost yeaheah, Like I.

841
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:55,919
Speaker 7: Don't I don't know if this is like its own

842
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:58,360
Speaker 7: season in the same way that season one was. So

843
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:00,480
Speaker 7: I'm still kind of holding out for season three and

844
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:04,280
Speaker 7: hoping that they'll kind of maybe bring in some female writers,

845
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:07,359
Speaker 7: maybe bring in some people to like, you know, tell

846
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:12,520
Speaker 7: these more emotional stories and give us more episodes. Even so,

847
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:17,040
Speaker 7: I honestly like, as you said, Joelle, the most interesting

848
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:19,200
Speaker 7: thing for me was like, Oh, I'm really I want

849
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:21,480
Speaker 7: to know more about Isaac. I want to know more

850
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:24,400
Speaker 7: more about Abby. Yeah, you, Pascal is hot and I

851
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 7: love him. Ye miss he is dead now, you know.

852
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:30,799
Speaker 7: So give me more, Isaac, Give me more, Abby, give

853
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 7: me and I and I really am hoping that they

854
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 7: can do something in these last couple of episodes that

855
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 7: will just kind of, uh, bring it home.

856
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:41,319
Speaker 5: For me, kind of tying all of that together with

857
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:43,439
Speaker 5: the Last of Us and what that means, and kind

858
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 5: of I do think you guys will touch on something

859
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:47,799
Speaker 5: that for me is like the world building in the

860
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:51,840
Speaker 5: first season is so fantastic and it is from meeting

861
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 5: those different communities, and I feel like that has not

862
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:58,560
Speaker 5: been established in the same way for the Scars for

863
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 5: the WLF, and I know the world is expanding, but

864
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:05,279
Speaker 5: I do think for me that would have made this

865
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 5: season stronger so far if we'd have had a little

866
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:11,239
Speaker 5: bit more insight into who these people were, what their

867
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 5: view of the world is, why they behave the way

868
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:18,759
Speaker 5: they do. That is what makes the Last of Us interesting,

869
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 5: and that's what makes great TV storytelling interesting.

870
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:26,719
Speaker 1: If you take that WLF where the Seraphytes are executing

871
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:31,319
Speaker 1: the WLF member through episode five, like when you get

872
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:32,680
Speaker 1: to that point in the video game. That's almost the

873
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:35,759
Speaker 1: it's the introduction for the Seraphytes, right, Yeah, like that's

874
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:36,760
Speaker 1: pretty much the beginning.

875
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 3: We never got that whole thing with them, and.

876
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 1: So that element of horror works. But since we've already

877
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 1: been introduced to the fact that they disn't vowel people

878
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:46,960
Speaker 1: with many more bodies and a vere horse, it doesn't hit.

879
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:49,359
Speaker 1: And because I don't know that w Left member or

880
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:52,360
Speaker 1: those serophytes, I don't have an emotional investment in what

881
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:55,759
Speaker 1: they're doing, so they don't like each other, right, And

882
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:58,480
Speaker 1: so all that scene really does then is it's like, oh,

883
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:01,359
Speaker 1: there's not anywhere safe, like and we know the serah

884
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 1: fights are on the park, which is not great at

885
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:07,719
Speaker 1: the end of episode five for us to be at

886
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:10,359
Speaker 1: that place in storytelling, so that I think, I think

887
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 1: just almost like that sort of drag it. But again,

888
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:14,440
Speaker 1: there are so many great moments throughout the series. It's

889
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:17,279
Speaker 1: still it's still living in like B plus territory for

890
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:19,800
Speaker 1: me of like, this is still a fun and engaging space.

891
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:23,000
Speaker 4: No, it's true, Yeah, I'm solidly B plus as well. Yeah,

892
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 4: it was just.

893
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:29,360
Speaker 1: Yes, and we're worried about the child We're like, please,

894
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:31,400
Speaker 1: they could do a plus work what's happening.

895
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 5: One of my many nieces and nephews is really into

896
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 5: rating things at the moment and very into like S

897
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:38,920
Speaker 5: rate you know.

898
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:43,480
Speaker 3: But I think for a while it was I think

899
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 3: the first season.

900
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 5: Was s T I forget, which is so rare, and

901
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:49,760
Speaker 5: I think that's the only reason we're looking at it

902
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:52,120
Speaker 5: this way is because there's a little bit of.

903
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 3: Something.

904
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:56,920
Speaker 5: I think it's the truncated nature of the season, the pacing.

905
00:47:57,239 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 5: It kind of takes me out of the logic of

906
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:02,360
Speaker 5: the show. Where is that first season is legit just

907
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:04,759
Speaker 5: you are on the journey the whole way, and you.

908
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 7: Even open up with world building in the first season

909
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:10,280
Speaker 7: just with that, like that kind of like interview section

910
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:12,960
Speaker 7: where they're talking about the courty steps and stuff, and

911
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:15,279
Speaker 7: just if they would zoom out a little bit, I

912
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:15,919
Speaker 7: think too.

913
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:19,239
Speaker 1: That could I sort of missed those moments, to miss

914
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:23,759
Speaker 1: that happening so far in between different time periods, and like,

915
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 1: how do people receive information that seems far out? How

916
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 1: did you know the scientists initial reaction to these things?

917
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:33,640
Speaker 1: And because we're not jumping either into other territories, even

918
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:35,799
Speaker 1: like we had that weird stop in season one with

919
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:38,759
Speaker 1: the indigenous couple where they were like rob them for

920
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 1: some stuff, and like that was just such an interesting

921
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:43,920
Speaker 1: peak into a life and then we were gone and

922
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:45,280
Speaker 1: people survived.

923
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I will say that I think that there is

924
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:51,280
Speaker 2: I understand that this show cannot be three hours an episode,

925
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:55,200
Speaker 2: that I do feel as if those little you know,

926
00:48:55,239 --> 00:49:00,200
Speaker 2: those little download moments, there are exposition starters, for sure,

927
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:05,560
Speaker 2: but I think you could drop those in through the

928
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:12,200
Speaker 2: perspective of Gail or Maria or these other characters. Where

929
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:15,120
Speaker 2: was she when this broke out? What was she doing?

930
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 1: Like?

931
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 2: What is what are her memories of the first critical

932
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:23,439
Speaker 2: few days of this crisis? I think those things could

933
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:27,400
Speaker 2: both widen the world and deep in our connection to

934
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 2: the new characters, of the characters who've just been introduced

935
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:35,640
Speaker 2: this season. Yeah, absolutely, even like someone like Dina who

936
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 2: was obviously very young, but like, what are her actual

937
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:39,799
Speaker 2: memories of this?

938
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:43,360
Speaker 5: I know, what does she remember just outside of maybe

939
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:46,239
Speaker 5: like just telling Ellie like this happened. It was bad,

940
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:48,439
Speaker 5: you know, Like we got to see that a little

941
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:50,640
Speaker 5: bit more in season one, And I do think Gail

942
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:53,239
Speaker 5: would have been a great kind of launchpad for that.

943
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:55,960
Speaker 5: I love that edition of that character. I also would

944
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:58,239
Speaker 5: love to know more about Maria because I thought she

945
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:00,359
Speaker 5: was one of the most interesting.

946
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 4: And you have in season one.

947
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:07,480
Speaker 7: Can I say something too that I think has been

948
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:09,799
Speaker 7: kind of affecting me This season is like the first

949
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:13,400
Speaker 7: season is really about like survival and like finding you know,

950
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:16,360
Speaker 7: your people that you can survive with, and this season

951
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:19,719
Speaker 7: has taken a notable turn to being about like revenge

952
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:24,000
Speaker 7: and I don't know but about y'all, but it feels

953
00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:27,440
Speaker 7: so dumb, Like when you look at like Jackson Hall

954
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:29,359
Speaker 7: was great, why the hell are we going out to Ken,

955
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:33,719
Speaker 7: I would just be like that sucks. She killed my

956
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:36,680
Speaker 7: like dad figure, But I am not leaving Jackson Hall.

957
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:39,799
Speaker 5: I also so that was a little critique of from

958
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 5: people who hadn't played the game who were like, this

959
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:44,359
Speaker 5: is like a silly revenge plot line, blah blah blah,

960
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:46,359
Speaker 5: and I was thinking, like, you don't understand, But now

961
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:48,279
Speaker 5: I'm kind of like, also, like, you know what, if

962
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:50,560
Speaker 5: I was like told me, I would have tied Ellie up,

963
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:52,319
Speaker 5: like you're staying in the house and listen to this.

964
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:55,759
Speaker 3: And down over it for a bit, Babe, I was

965
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:56,920
Speaker 3: like leaving.

966
00:50:56,680 --> 00:51:02,880
Speaker 2: That revenge I love and I do think I love revenge.

967
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:06,520
Speaker 2: It's it's one of the most elemental plot devices we have, right,

968
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 2: you know, And I think that, uh yeah, I'm a

969
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:14,840
Speaker 2: little disappointed in Jacksonville for not putting other options besides

970
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:18,440
Speaker 2: sixteen riders or we don't do anything out there, right, Like,

971
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:21,800
Speaker 2: I think there were things in between that said I will,

972
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:27,040
Speaker 2: you know, I do think that the application of revenge

973
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 2: and the way that it's both taken over Ellie's life

974
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:37,879
Speaker 2: and also doesn't seem to like it's weird that she's

975
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 2: less angry.

976
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:40,040
Speaker 4: Don't you think she.

977
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:45,359
Speaker 2: Was so much more angry when Joel was around, and

978
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:49,719
Speaker 2: now she's been consumed by this revenge mission.

979
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 1: And doesn't she's having fun and she's having a great

980
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:57,439
Speaker 1: time and the show is sort of like not true,

981
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:01,719
Speaker 1: not diagnosing her with anything, But there do seem to

982
00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:04,319
Speaker 1: be two sides of her, right Like there is when

983
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:08,480
Speaker 1: she gets into these moments of fully in revenge where

984
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:11,040
Speaker 1: she can enact this violence, there's a switch and as

985
00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 1: the switch we saw in season one, which I genuinely loved,

986
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:20,239
Speaker 1: like it was a great flip, I think by not

987
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:22,879
Speaker 1: again exploring to me secrets are such a huge part

988
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:26,160
Speaker 1: of like young women's lives, and I think, yeah, particularly

989
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:31,040
Speaker 1: in spaces where that are like male dominated and it's

990
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:34,759
Speaker 1: the post apocalypse would be And I just think if

991
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:36,960
Speaker 1: you had all of this rage and you were falling

992
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 1: in love with a person, as person was like I

993
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:41,960
Speaker 1: love you back, you would not want them to see

994
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:44,360
Speaker 1: the side of you because it's terrifying and people know

995
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:48,560
Speaker 1: it's quote wrong and therefore like I just don't, which

996
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:50,000
Speaker 1: goes back to the like there's not a lot of

997
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:53,640
Speaker 1: tension between Dina and Ellie. I just feel like we're

998
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:56,560
Speaker 1: seeing two very different sides of her, but there's no

999
00:52:56,640 --> 00:52:59,839
Speaker 1: attempt to like showcase how she's hiding or what I say.

1000
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:02,640
Speaker 5: I think that there's another kind of lack of conflict

1001
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:05,680
Speaker 5: or friction where there could be something really interesting in

1002
00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:09,120
Speaker 5: Ellie trying to hide that from herself. And I have found, like,

1003
00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:11,200
Speaker 5: I know, we spoke about this on the recap, so

1004
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:12,400
Speaker 5: you can go and listen to me talk about it

1005
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:14,759
Speaker 5: more that I'm a big tatty Gabrielle fan. So I

1006
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:17,160
Speaker 5: didn't love like the way that they portrayed Nora's end.

1007
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:20,120
Speaker 5: I just I couldn't really root for Ellie doing that.

1008
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:23,960
Speaker 3: But also I think I think there's optics issues when

1009
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:26,239
Speaker 3: when you're cast like that, but also I also think

1010
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:29,760
Speaker 3: that there is that flit.

1011
00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:32,680
Speaker 5: It was just to me, it did still feel like

1012
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:35,759
Speaker 5: it came out of nowhere in this context because of

1013
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:38,720
Speaker 5: that lack of friction, because of that kind of lack

1014
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:41,719
Speaker 5: of they're having a great time and then suddenly they're

1015
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:43,560
Speaker 5: downstairs and they're in the spores and she's just gonna

1016
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:44,640
Speaker 5: beat her to death with a pipe.

1017
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:47,319
Speaker 3: Just leave her there. She's gonna die, She's not.

1018
00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:53,080
Speaker 2: I just think that there is there there's a binariness

1019
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:59,480
Speaker 2: with Ellie's character where she's completely good in the context

1020
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:02,799
Speaker 2: that we are comfortable with her being completely good in

1021
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:05,200
Speaker 2: with her with Dina, with her on the mission when

1022
00:54:05,239 --> 00:54:07,640
Speaker 2: she's not in the presence of people she needs to kill,

1023
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:12,600
Speaker 2: and that when she kills like she killed Nora, she

1024
00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:16,480
Speaker 2: goes to the dark side. But we don't ever feel

1025
00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:20,280
Speaker 2: the presence of that in the rest of her character,

1026
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:27,680
Speaker 2: And I think there's a kind of unwillingness to complicate

1027
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:30,799
Speaker 2: her in that way that doesn't exist for other like,

1028
00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:33,480
Speaker 2: for instance, Abby, it's important that we know her motivations.

1029
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:35,799
Speaker 2: We could easily see her as just the villain we

1030
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:37,680
Speaker 2: have to kill her. She must be stopped. We have

1031
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:41,400
Speaker 2: to take revenge for this. But despite the fact that

1032
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:44,640
Speaker 2: we haven't gone that deeply with her, we already understand

1033
00:54:44,680 --> 00:54:47,040
Speaker 2: like her motive. This is her father that was murdered.

1034
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:49,520
Speaker 2: She found his body like she loved him, like the

1035
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:53,680
Speaker 2: way that Ellie loved Joel, and we've established that. But

1036
00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:57,600
Speaker 2: we've also seen the way she acted to her wolves

1037
00:54:57,719 --> 00:55:00,759
Speaker 2: that she forced basically to go on this five year

1038
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:03,439
Speaker 2: mission of revenge to find this person, and the way

1039
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:06,720
Speaker 2: she reacted to them, like almost with like a iron

1040
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:09,120
Speaker 2: hand of like shut up and fucking do what I

1041
00:55:09,160 --> 00:55:12,480
Speaker 2: say to inject her with that fucking drug. Yes, I said,

1042
00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:13,479
Speaker 2: we weren't gonna hurt people.

1043
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:15,319
Speaker 4: Now we are. What what the fuck are you gonna

1044
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:15,839
Speaker 4: do about it?

1045
00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:16,880
Speaker 1: With Ellie?

1046
00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:19,200
Speaker 4: We don't want that to happen.

1047
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:24,480
Speaker 2: We there's almost an allergicness to feeling as if Ellie

1048
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:28,880
Speaker 2: and she is I'm not saying she's forcing Dina to

1049
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:30,840
Speaker 2: do this, but I'm saying a person in their rational

1050
00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:32,200
Speaker 2: mind would be like, you're pregnant.

1051
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:33,279
Speaker 1: That's it.

1052
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:34,440
Speaker 3: We're going on.

1053
00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:42,600
Speaker 1: The pregnancy. That's an army. Yeah, two people without weapons.

1054
00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:47,400
Speaker 1: This is crazy. We're going to die, Yes, but.

1055
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:50,520
Speaker 2: To make that decision right is kind of that Abbey

1056
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:57,920
Speaker 2: like singular focused, almost obsessive, like crazed, monomaniacal, like I

1057
00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:04,480
Speaker 2: need this bloodlust must be slaked. But there's none of

1058
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:06,879
Speaker 2: that because it is just like.

1059
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:10,920
Speaker 6: So that I love it.

1060
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:12,759
Speaker 2: I love Ellie too, and I love that she's our

1061
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:14,480
Speaker 2: hero and I'm going to follow her to the end

1062
00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:18,680
Speaker 2: of this story. But it does feel a little less complicated.

1063
00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:21,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then we got those complications with Joel too,

1064
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:24,160
Speaker 1: like when we think like he could never tell what's

1065
00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:26,359
Speaker 1: her face that he was in love with her, even

1066
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:29,359
Speaker 1: though clearly they had had this very long relationship where

1067
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:32,800
Speaker 1: they had a level of dedication to one another. Yeah,

1068
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:35,920
Speaker 1: even when he's meeting Bill and Frank, like there's a

1069
00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:38,799
Speaker 1: difficulty in connecting, like he's only really connecting with them

1070
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:42,040
Speaker 1: over protect Yes, got that we have the guns, we

1071
00:56:42,080 --> 00:56:47,080
Speaker 1: need the gates perfect. I think with Ellie we get

1072
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:50,319
Speaker 1: just it's just too little. I think we knew more

1073
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:53,880
Speaker 1: about Jackson and saw more people's interactions and how Ellie

1074
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:56,960
Speaker 1: left them feeling that we might have a clear picture

1075
00:56:56,960 --> 00:56:59,000
Speaker 1: of who she is because right now, like when we

1076
00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:00,239
Speaker 1: get in top of like oh, you're part of this

1077
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:02,799
Speaker 1: community now. But also these guys are willing to like

1078
00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:05,600
Speaker 1: train with her and are pulling their punches because they

1079
00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:08,799
Speaker 1: care enough about her to like do real damage. Like

1080
00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:12,320
Speaker 1: it's just not a full picture of her as a person.

1081
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:15,319
Speaker 1: And I think too, it's been hard, and I've heard

1082
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:17,040
Speaker 1: that people see, like it's hard to root for Ellie

1083
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:21,600
Speaker 1: this season, And here's what I'm really bumping against and

1084
00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:23,800
Speaker 1: where I feel like the show was, like, Joel's absolutely wrong.

1085
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:28,040
Speaker 1: He killed a doctor in the apocalypse. You're killing health

1086
00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:30,760
Speaker 1: workers in an apocalypse. I don't know what There's a

1087
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:34,680
Speaker 1: more egregious crime at this point in time than killing

1088
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:38,000
Speaker 1: somebody who heals Like that is insane to do, and

1089
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:42,200
Speaker 1: Joel did it in a moment of like she's literally

1090
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:47,320
Speaker 1: gonna die. She's right there and she's going to die.

1091
00:57:46,040 --> 00:57:46,480
Speaker 3: What would you?

1092
00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:51,680
Speaker 1: And you still find the violence abhorrent and you're still

1093
00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:54,840
Speaker 1: like this is absolutely wrong, But there is a certain

1094
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:57,200
Speaker 1: level of like I sort of understand what's happening here.

1095
00:57:57,280 --> 00:57:59,960
Speaker 1: Where's Ellie. He's been passed. You literally had to heal

1096
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:02,520
Speaker 1: from a whole injury. You're out here with somebody who's

1097
00:58:02,560 --> 00:58:06,600
Speaker 1: extremely vulnerable, Andrew were killing doctors, like, what are we doing?

1098
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:09,920
Speaker 1: It's again, it's just feeling a little lost. I'm hoping

1099
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:11,400
Speaker 1: they can land the plane, but it's like, really, do

1100
00:58:11,520 --> 00:58:12,200
Speaker 1: enjoy this show?

1101
00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:12,480
Speaker 5: Yeah?

1102
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:16,280
Speaker 3: Two episodes left, so we're gonna find out well.

1103
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:18,840
Speaker 2: Coming up on x ray Vision, we have our recaps

1104
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:22,400
Speaker 2: of the final three episodes of and Or. Tomorrow Friday,

1105
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:24,240
Speaker 2: we'll be back with our round table. And this Saturday,

1106
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:27,840
Speaker 2: we're serving up some hot news with a special featurette

1107
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:31,520
Speaker 2: on the Apple TV Plus series Murder Bots. Coming up

1108
00:58:31,520 --> 00:58:34,280
Speaker 2: next more Star Wars end Mission Impossible. Folks.

1109
00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:36,120
Speaker 4: That's it for this episode. Thanks for listening.

1110
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:41,280
Speaker 2: By x ray Vision is hosted by Jason steps Young

1111
00:58:41,360 --> 00:58:43,960
Speaker 2: and Rosie Night and is a production of iHeart Podcast.

1112
00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:47,880
Speaker 5: Our executive producers are Joe Alminique and Aaron Kolefman.

1113
00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:50,160
Speaker 4: Our supervising producer is Abu Safar.

1114
00:58:50,560 --> 00:58:54,560
Speaker 5: Our producers are Common Laurent Dean Jonathan and Bay Wag.

1115
00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:57,400
Speaker 2: A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme

1116
00:58:57,440 --> 00:58:58,720
Speaker 2: songs by Aaron Kaufman.

1117
00:58:58,920 --> 00:59:02,240
Speaker 5: Special thanks to sol Ubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and

1118
00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:04,120
Speaker 5: Heidi Are Discord moderator

1119
00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:07,560
Speaker 6: M