WEBVTT - Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Mutant Mayhem 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:03.720 Warning, this podcast contains spoilers for Teenage Mutant, Ninja, Turtles, 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:24.600 Mutant Mayhem, Turtle Power. Hello. My name is Jason Cepsion 0:00:24.840 --> 0:00:27.360 and I'm Rosey Night and welcome to x ray Vision, 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:30.360 the crooked media podcast where we dive deep into your 0:00:30.400 --> 0:00:32.519 favorite shows, movies, comics, and pop culture. 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:37.159 In this episode, starting with strike Watch, Gotta keep your datch, 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:41.000 some wild news dropped just before we started recording, and 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:42.960 we're happy to dropped before so we can talk about 0:00:42.960 --> 0:00:46.800 it in the airlock. It's the the oozy, gooey delights 0:00:46.800 --> 0:00:50.680 of and Mayhem. It's so good, but don't get milked. 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:52.320 Don't get milked, folks. 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:55.360 Don't get milked guys. And in ned out a question 0:00:55.400 --> 0:00:59.560 about Fly on the Wall conversations. 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:06.000 Coming up next, strike Watch, Strike Watch. It was announced 0:01:06.160 --> 0:01:13.720 today Monday seventh that the workers at Marvel, the VFX 0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:18.760 workers at Marvel, about fifty on set employees, have voted 0:01:18.959 --> 0:01:28.319 to unionize, joining IATZI, the union that covers some of 0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:33.600 the crews that work on sets television sets, movie sets, 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:37.400 and the workers are asking for an election for union 0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:40.360 positions to be held as early as August twenty first. 0:01:40.959 --> 0:01:45.920 So this is big news now, of course there are 0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:53.960 there are struct structural obstacles VFX, not just by Marvel Disney, 0:01:54.000 --> 0:01:57.040 but all the other studios are usually farmed out not 0:01:57.360 --> 0:02:02.760 only to their in house crafts people, but to studios 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:07.680 around the globe. This, you know, as one a bid 0:02:07.720 --> 0:02:10.720 for efficiency and also two to make it harder to unionize. 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:16.200 So there's a long fight that remains ahead of these workers. 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:21.640 But this is a development that I think many can 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:22.520 and should support. 0:02:23.160 --> 0:02:26.440 Yeah, I think it's great news. I am really excited 0:02:26.480 --> 0:02:29.040 for them. It's going to be hard, but as with 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:33.760 so many fights, it starts with one thing that can spread. 0:02:33.840 --> 0:02:38.200 So them being represented by IATZI and potentially having the 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:42.400 election to see if that's possible, could be a great 0:02:42.440 --> 0:02:46.519 way to start thinking about how a wider unionization or 0:02:46.600 --> 0:02:51.200 labor organization effort could happen even with these separate places, 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:52.720 which is kind of what happened with the Video Game 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:56.080 Workers Union. It's something that Comics is still thinking about. 0:02:56.160 --> 0:02:58.640 So I think this is great. I think that, as 0:02:58.760 --> 0:03:02.120 Chris Lee said Vulture, on the heels of more than 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:06.240 a year's worth of damning disclosures around Marvel Studio, systematic 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:09.720 overworking and underpayment of visual effects workers. This is to 0:03:09.800 --> 0:03:13.560 be expected, and I'm very happy that hot labor summer continues. 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:16.120 This is really wild that this came out on the 0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:18.240 same day that it was announced that the LA City 0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:21.400 workers would go on strike next Tuesday for a twenty 0:03:21.440 --> 0:03:22.720 four hours, which is going to be like the first 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:25.280 strike since the eighties. So the strikes keep coming and 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:26.200 they don't stop coming. 0:03:28.800 --> 0:03:32.040 To that end, we moved to South Korea where actors 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:36.640 in Netflix originals want better pay, reports the La Times, 0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:43.120 and the company refuses to meet their union unbelievable comes 0:03:43.120 --> 0:03:46.000 on the heels, of course, of the revelation that the 0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:51.680 creator of Squid Game, whose story increased the valuation of 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:58.440 Netflix by a billion according to some analysts, received in 0:03:58.560 --> 0:04:04.920 recompense for that residuals a salary but virtually no other 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:10.680 ability to share in the massive profits that his story 0:04:10.960 --> 0:04:15.440 generated for Netflix. And of course, you know, Netflix is 0:04:15.480 --> 0:04:19.600 often talked about as the streamer that's best positioned for 0:04:19.720 --> 0:04:22.360 the current labor actions that are taking place. Right They 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:24.640 have a lot of reality TV. They have like this 0:04:24.760 --> 0:04:30.799 vast of programming that comes from international that it's already banked. 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:34.000 That's like comes from other places around the world, including 0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:38.280 a heavy bliance on the on the stories that come 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:44.200 out of South Korea, and so this would seem to 0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:49.080 put pressure on that and a welcome development as well. 0:04:50.120 --> 0:04:52.679 Yeah, I think it's absolutely welcome. I think this is great. 0:04:52.680 --> 0:04:56.880 It's the Korea Broadcasting Actors Union, and I just think 0:04:57.040 --> 0:05:02.400 this is a great, terrible, very prime example of how 0:05:02.680 --> 0:05:06.960 Netflix views international programming and how they obviously thought this 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:10.599 was a space where they could have a yeah, a 0:05:10.680 --> 0:05:13.760 resource to be exploited. I mean, the Squid Game thing 0:05:13.920 --> 0:05:18.279 was so shocking because it was an original idea created 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:23.800 by Quanggong Kuk, and yet when he signed the deal 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:26.760 to make it, Netflix took all of the IP in 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:29.080 a move that is very similar to what we've seen 0:05:29.120 --> 0:05:31.320 in the comic book industry, but is a lot rarer 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:37.160 in standard traditional publishing or Hollywood. But Netflix, obviously, like 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:39.600 you so beautifully put it, Jason, saw this as a 0:05:39.600 --> 0:05:42.640 resource to be exploited in mind, rather than a space 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:46.039 to support creators. And the fact that Netflix is not 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:50.440 getting back to the National Broadcasting Actors Union shows a 0:05:50.560 --> 0:05:53.400 lack of respect, in my opinion, for the work that 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:57.719 is being done. But I would very much like to 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:01.440 see some kind of labor organization happening in a way 0:06:01.440 --> 0:06:05.599 that could impact the way that Netflix is using this 0:06:05.760 --> 0:06:09.200 programming not only as a way to break the strike 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:11.440 or not be affected by it, which is what they're doing, 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:13.680 but also as a way to just let them know, like, 0:06:14.360 --> 0:06:17.720 this content is made by people. It's not content creators. 0:06:17.760 --> 0:06:22.480 It's artists, it's right as it's actors, it's directors, it's storytellers, 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:26.239 it's production designers, it's set dressers. It's all these people 0:06:26.839 --> 0:06:29.240 that is always getting left behind in this era of 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:32.680 like content and content creators. So I just think any 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:37.919 movement like this is very positive and I hope that 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:41.320 Netflix makes the correct decision here, but let's be real, 0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:43.680 in this summer, none of these execs are making the 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:47.359 correct decision. So I'm not feeling hopeful that's great. 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:51.000 Well, you know, like if this is a thing, I'm 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:53.440 not going to dwell on this too long. But this 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:55.840 is this is a structural issue. It's this is not 0:06:56.680 --> 0:07:00.640 this is not something that falls at the feet of 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:04.800 any of the individual CEOs who run this country, these companies. 0:07:05.480 --> 0:07:11.080 This is an issue about how the economics of the 0:07:11.160 --> 0:07:15.920 space work and tech, which Netflix is a tech company 0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:25.440 essentially has long been hostile to unionization efforts, and you 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:28.679 know that will that will only continue, So we watch 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:41.600 this with interest. Up next TM and TA Mutant Mayhem, 0:07:42.240 --> 0:07:45.760 we're stepping out of the airlock and into the beautiful, 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:51.880 aromatic and juicy sewers of New York City for Teenage 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:57.840 Mutant Ninja Turtles Mutant Mayhem, which opened last weekend and 0:07:58.320 --> 0:08:01.400 is wonderful, delightful. 0:08:00.800 --> 0:08:02.960 Ten out of ten lovely good stuff. 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:10.400 I gotta say before we get into the movie, who 0:08:10.480 --> 0:08:14.720 would have fifteen years ago, eighteen years ago, whatever it is, 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:18.320 who would have picked Seth Brogan and Evan Goldberg to 0:08:18.400 --> 0:08:21.800 be like the powerhouses that emerge from Freaks and Geeks. 0:08:22.200 --> 0:08:25.240 Yeah, exactly, and not just that, but also the powerhouses 0:08:25.280 --> 0:08:32.440 to emerge from Freaks and Geeks to essentially adapt unadaptable comics. 0:08:32.000 --> 0:08:38.559 And and like multi like all around multi layered threats. 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:43.000 Obviously Rogan in front of the camera, behind the camera, writing, producing, 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:48.880 Goldberg writing, producing, and et cetera. But it's the track 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:51.200 record at this point is really, really amazing, and it 0:08:51.240 --> 0:08:56.320 continues again with the wonderful Teenage Turtles Meet Mayhem that 0:08:56.760 --> 0:09:02.280 has their imprint on it with help, scriptwriting, help from 0:09:02.559 --> 0:09:07.080 Dan Hernandez and Benji Saman and director Jeff Row, but 0:09:07.280 --> 0:09:12.720 just really really fantastic, absolutely distills the what's kind of 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:15.920 like magical about the DG E turnals for a new 0:09:15.960 --> 0:09:22.040 generation and see, yeah, listen, the animation style the action 0:09:22.520 --> 0:09:27.920 is so unique. I wouldn't even know how to describe it. 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:29.960 How would you describe it? 0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:34.720 I think it it kind of swerves between like looking 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:37.839 like somebody's sketches that you would see in the classroom 0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:41.840 next to kind of look yeah, and then also a 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:45.040 kind of stop motion vibe. I think one of the 0:09:45.080 --> 0:09:47.240 things that they did that was the coolest is obviously 0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:50.360 this is a post Spider Verse movie, as we call them, 0:09:50.360 --> 0:09:53.959 more Aura is influenced by Spider Verse, but I will 0:09:54.000 --> 0:09:56.080 say I think this is one of the first movies 0:09:56.880 --> 0:09:59.600 to come out of this wave of post Spider Use 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:03.480 movies that it understands where its strengths are, so it 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:06.040 doesn't try to ape Spider Verse by doing like twenty 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:09.400 different types of animation, which is obviously the part and 0:10:09.480 --> 0:10:12.440 parcel of what makes those movies so brilliant. Instead, they 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:16.320 found one really unique animation style and stuck with it, 0:10:16.720 --> 0:10:21.000 and it feels so enjoyable and it feels raw, but 0:10:21.080 --> 0:10:25.560 it's entertaining. There's this very old school comics thing to 0:10:25.679 --> 0:10:29.120 it where all of the characters apart from April O'Neil, 0:10:29.160 --> 0:10:31.800 who I love played by the incredible Ioeta Berry, who 0:10:31.800 --> 0:10:34.640 we just love so much, but like, all of the 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:37.680 characters apart from April and the Turtles are grotesque. The 0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:41.400 human characters are grow test, the mutant characters are grow tesque. 0:10:41.600 --> 0:10:45.000 That's very old school, that's very silver age superhero comics. Like, yeah, 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:49.280 these characters are monsters, they're scary, they're weird. But then 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:51.080 I love that at the center you have this kind 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:54.600 of pure core group of the obviously the four Turtles, 0:10:54.640 --> 0:10:56.680 and then you have April, who are just really cool. 0:10:56.720 --> 0:10:58.800 And I wrote this in my lab Box review, but 0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:00.760 one of the things that I I really found quite 0:11:00.800 --> 0:11:03.840 profound about this movie is there's a picture I have 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:07.079 of me when I was like three years old, wearing 0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:11.520 a nappy, holding like a Raphael Flush And I've loved 0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:14.000 the Turtles for that long. I love them when they 0:11:14.000 --> 0:11:16.679 were cartoons, I love them when they were playmates toys. 0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:18.520 I love the black and white comics, which when you 0:11:18.559 --> 0:11:21.480 discover them when you're old enough feel like a revelation 0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:25.839 compared to what they became on the cartoons. I followed 0:11:25.880 --> 0:11:28.960 them throughout my life. I love Pi A Led and 0:11:29.120 --> 0:11:31.440 Kevin Eastman like those are like icons to me of 0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:36.000 comic book creation. I love the original Jim Henson Suit 0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:38.720 movies like I've lived through the Michael Bay era, like 0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:42.160 I've seen so many stories with them. And to be 0:11:42.320 --> 0:11:45.400 here as like a thirty five year old and sitting 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:47.680 in that theater and able to enjoy the movie and 0:11:47.760 --> 0:11:50.240 watch the movie and love the movie and feel like 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:54.240 they're like my sweet, annoying cousins who I wanna protect. 0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:58.120 That is like an incredible feeling to grow up with 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:01.520 characters and outgrow them still want to spend time with them. 0:12:02.040 --> 0:12:05.719 And this really does a great job of putting across 0:12:05.960 --> 0:12:10.120 the teenage aspect of the TMNT X ray vision will 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:10.760 be Back. 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:23.880 And We're back. Yeah, the teenage aspect of the Turtles 0:12:24.400 --> 0:12:28.360 is front and center. And you know, Goldberg and Seth 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:34.240 Brogen have been pretty outspoken about that being the aspect 0:12:34.400 --> 0:12:36.640 of these characters that they really want to highlight, that 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:39.240 they really wanted to drill down on. I think they 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:44.400 did it wonderfully. You know, there's this wonderful moment where 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:49.800 the turtles are just coming home after kind of like 0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:54.640 lingering on the edge of like this outdoor movie showing 0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:58.320 at Brooklyn Bridge Park and then come home and Dad 0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:01.880 is kind of like castigating them for like where have 0:13:01.960 --> 0:13:06.120 you been? And it's this wonderful like so uh, Jackie 0:13:06.200 --> 0:13:11.720 Chan plays Splinter incredible way, incredible casting, and it creates 0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:16.839 this layer of like they really resonated, like as the 0:13:17.240 --> 0:13:21.520 as the child of immigrants of like to have like, uh, 0:13:21.760 --> 0:13:24.880 you know, like the immigrant parent who's like, don't what 0:13:24.960 --> 0:13:27.480 are you doing, Don't go out, don't do this, like 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:29.720 you know you're going to be influencing bad ways. And 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:32.200 Splinter's version of that is humans want to kill you, 0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:35.760 they want to milk you, they want to trap you 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:38.640 in a lab somewhere and do experiments on all of 0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:39.719 which is absolutely fair. 0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:43.040 I'm true, it turns out and true. 0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:47.439 But after that, you know, after they absorb this this 0:13:47.720 --> 0:13:51.000 speech from Splinter, they like go to their rooms and 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:53.720 they're just like scrolling their phones and like talking about 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:57.520 different things that they see on their phones, roast each 0:13:57.559 --> 0:14:01.600 other that they would do if they could, and it 0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:07.679 was just really really wonderful, Like it's same as you. 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:10.280 I'm a longtime Turtle fan. I remember one of my 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:14.880 classmates to like, did this happen when you were in school? 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:20.200 Like kids would bring for absolutely no reason other than 0:14:20.240 --> 0:14:23.040 to like flex in front of the other kids. Like 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:26.000 kids would just like bring comics and toys. 0:14:25.680 --> 0:14:26.560 Yea to class? 0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:29.240 Yeah, when like absolutely you just know that if a 0:14:29.280 --> 0:14:31.280 teacher sees that, like it's going to take away why 0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:34.720 is that here? But I I remember one of my 0:14:34.760 --> 0:14:39.840 classmates brought in the black and white teenage Vietnamese Turtles 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:42.360 Eastman and Lared book. And now I don't know if 0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:44.560 it was a first printing or a second printing or 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:47.360 what issue. I don't remember what issue it was, but 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:51.520 I remember being knocked out by by the art. It 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:54.400 must have been the first issue because I remember there 0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:58.800 being I remember the panel that really got me was 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:01.720 like one when you couldn't really tell them apart it 0:15:01.800 --> 0:15:02.360 must I think. 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:04.840 It was no, no, you can't tell them apart. It's black 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:07.600 and white, they ware mosques, you can't really tell. 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:10.840 I think it was maybe Rath who said this, but 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:14.480 like it's a panel they're fighting and one of the 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:18.080 and the and the narration panel is like and we bleed, 0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:21.480 you know, and they have these little like they have 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:25.160 these little scratches like all over their shells and all 0:15:25.160 --> 0:15:27.280 over their skin. And I was like, holy shit, this 0:15:27.400 --> 0:15:30.000 is amazing. And I went to the com book store 0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:32.280 I couldn't find it, and then eventually I found it, 0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:36.720 and then it was definitely weird. So like I'm of 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:41.520 that era where when the cartoon really started hitting, I 0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:43.480 was like, well, this is like so different than the 0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:46.960 than the black and white version, but it's wonderful. How 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:50.040 I think one of the great things about Mayhem is 0:15:50.680 --> 0:15:54.680 it really combines all of that stuff, like the cool 0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:58.320 martial arts everything, Yeah, the cool martial arts action of 0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:03.480 like the Eastman and laired a precolorized run and like 0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:07.720 the Cowabunga pizza fun of the teenage Bean Nugat is 0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:12.320 the nineties video game era, and it distills all of 0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:17.000 that and there's something that is really like truly something 0:16:17.040 --> 0:16:18.720 of its own. I had a great time. 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:20.520 I thought I was amazing, And I think you bring 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:22.720 up a great point. Like I wrote a piece of 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:26.640 IgM that was kind of explaining about like this, this 0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:28.480 will have a this will be a spoiler, so like 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:30.400 don't listen if you haven't seen it. Well, actually you 0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:32.240 can listen because it's not actually in the movie. It's 0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:34.360 just something I know because I've read the comics. But 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:39.760 there is a the Maya Rudolph character, Cynthia Utrom. She's 0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:42.920 almost certainly crang. You can do a we were right 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:45.640 for two years when they announced it because the utrom 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:47.920 But the Eutroms are an alien race that are in 0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:50.880 like the second issue of the Black and White comics, right, 0:16:51.200 --> 0:16:55.720 and then all your Mutant Mayhem characters, the actual mutants 0:16:55.720 --> 0:16:58.920 are Ray Phile aka Man Ray. You know Genghis from 0:16:59.600 --> 0:17:02.080 a First Love. Yeah, Oh my gosh, he was so good. 0:17:06.160 --> 0:17:09.240 It's awesome. I post alone doing a jes. 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:14.879 And like, you know, introducing Paul Rudd as Mondo, you know, 0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:18.359 the Mighty Immune Animals. That was a range of Playmates 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:21.080 toys when they were really just selling so many. So 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:24.720 it really does combine all of the different aspects that 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:28.679 make the tolls great. You have April O'Neil and she's black, 0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:31.560 which in the original Black and White's comics she was black. 0:17:31.960 --> 0:17:35.040 So even that people forget going back, they forget this, 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:38.440 and you know they and that goes back to the 0:17:38.480 --> 0:17:41.520 original era of the comics. I feel like they did 0:17:41.600 --> 0:17:44.480 such a brilliant job making it accessible. You know, my 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:46.640 nephew loved it. My ten year old nephew. Now he's 0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:48.879 going back and he's watching Rise than Ninja Towles, he's 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:51.040 watching the old cartoons, He's watching all of it. 0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:51.280 You know. 0:17:51.840 --> 0:17:55.920 I love that it basically once again created an accessible 0:17:56.000 --> 0:17:58.520 jumping on point for kids, because this is one of 0:17:58.520 --> 0:18:04.000 the most consistent kids franchises. Yes, that has kind of 0:18:04.119 --> 0:18:08.199 always perennially been there, and I think that's why. You know, 0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:10.400 they were tracking it. They were like, oh, it's gonna 0:18:10.440 --> 0:18:14.120 make like twenty five million or something, but it ended 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:17.040 up being closer. I think, let's find the final numbers. 0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:19.000 I'm I think it was like it was like forty 0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:20.040 five or fifty. 0:18:19.960 --> 0:18:22.480 On a budget of seventy million, which is so we're 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:24.200 going to get there, Like, clearly this is going to 0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:26.520 be a money making movie, and I think we're exactly. 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:30.920 We'll build just very delightful and I love to see 0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:33.360 it and I'm very happy. Yeah, forty three million over 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:36.800 five days, and it's going to have long, long legs, 0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:38.840 Like this is a movie that opened well and it's 0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:40.600 going to be playing all the way into the fall. 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:43.919 It makes me very happy. I love the idea that 0:18:44.240 --> 0:18:46.479 these kids are going to be able to, you know, 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:48.600 find these characters that we love. And I also love 0:18:48.680 --> 0:18:51.080 this is the first one where you actually have like, well, 0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:54.560 you know, the original Jim Henson Suit nineties late live 0:18:54.600 --> 0:18:56.720 action movie, some of the people who played them were 0:18:56.760 --> 0:18:59.359 teenagers who voiced them or were in the suits. But 0:18:59.440 --> 0:19:03.439 this is like kids. Miki who plays Donna Tello, he 0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:05.800 is a baby. When I see him in the interviews, 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:08.800 they're like, oh, my sweet child. And you know, Shaman 0:19:08.840 --> 0:19:11.800 Brown Junior is my clanjo amazing, Nicholas Cantu the only 0:19:11.880 --> 0:19:14.280 Leonardo I respect. I am a Leonardo Heyer. He is 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:16.840 a snitch in this movie, but he learns his ways. 0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:22.119 And Brandy Noon as Rafael, who is my all time favorite. 0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:25.360 I'm a Rafael Stan That's my of the four humors 0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:28.479 of the Turtles, I am a Rafael And like I 0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:30.159 just I loved it so much. And you know what 0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:32.119 else that they understood that I think a lot of 0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:35.480 the modern Turtle stuff hasn't understood. And this comes back 0:19:35.480 --> 0:19:37.440 to what you're saying in the comics. You couldn't tell 0:19:37.480 --> 0:19:39.320 them apart, right, because they didn't have the different color 0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:41.760 bandanas in the original comics, and then when they did, 0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:45.280 they had all red bandanas. It was all about personality, yea. 0:19:45.280 --> 0:19:47.640 And I think in the contemporary stuff, me and Nick 0:19:47.680 --> 0:19:50.040 talk about this a lot, like it became about how 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:52.479 do they look different, what gadgets do they have? Like 0:19:52.520 --> 0:19:54.920 you need to know the weapons. Now, that's all still true, 0:19:55.200 --> 0:19:56.960 and they actually do that in a really fun way here, 0:19:57.160 --> 0:20:01.080 But the personalities are so defined, like you couldn't watch 0:20:01.760 --> 0:20:04.200 every every kid is going to have a favorite. 0:20:04.320 --> 0:20:07.520 Who was your You mentioned it, but it but expound 0:20:08.040 --> 0:20:10.080 as to why your turtle was your turtle? 0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:14.119 Okay, so my title, I think it's one. When I 0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:16.720 was a kid, I definitely had that tendency of like 0:20:17.080 --> 0:20:19.680 thinking like the darker characters were. 0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:24.720 Like cool, that's very that's very like. 0:20:24.840 --> 0:20:28.320 Yeah, and and Raf was like the tough guy, and 0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:31.000 he was really complex and he was kind of sad 0:20:31.040 --> 0:20:33.520 and emo, but he you know, I will say, out 0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:36.720 of all the titles, I feel like his representation in 0:20:36.760 --> 0:20:39.359 this movie is slightly streamlined, whereas I feel like the 0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:42.919 others get a really great kind of new elements. But 0:20:43.000 --> 0:20:45.320 you know what, it's time, he's growing, he's still he's 0:20:45.359 --> 0:20:47.720 just a chunky little boy who's angry. But you know what, 0:20:47.760 --> 0:20:49.639 I think it really was And this is so dumb, 0:20:49.640 --> 0:20:52.560 but this is like so defining in my life. I 0:20:52.640 --> 0:20:56.359 always remember, like in the I I used to love 0:20:56.400 --> 0:20:58.960 all kinds of weird old movies, and like I loved 0:20:58.960 --> 0:21:01.200 like Carry Grant movies when I was a little kid, 0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:04.400 and I love PI movies. And I always remember Raphael 0:21:04.480 --> 0:21:07.760 in the movie wearing like the detective jacket and the hat, 0:21:08.320 --> 0:21:11.120 and that to me is just one of the coolest visuals. 0:21:11.280 --> 0:21:13.640 I literally have a reference to that in the new 0:21:13.680 --> 0:21:17.560 graphic novel. I'm writing him the thing RoboCop does it 0:21:17.600 --> 0:21:21.199 when it first gets transformed. There's something about that, and 0:21:21.240 --> 0:21:23.400 I think that for me really cemented it. But I mean, 0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:26.320 then again, I literally have that picture. I'll try and 0:21:26.320 --> 0:21:27.720 find a link to put it in the show notes 0:21:27.760 --> 0:21:29.520 because it's really funny. I have that picture of me 0:21:29.520 --> 0:21:31.879 when I was like a baby and I had raft 0:21:31.960 --> 0:21:33.720 So I don't know, I guess it was just maybe 0:21:33.720 --> 0:21:37.440 it was because he was red, you know it well, 0:21:37.560 --> 0:21:40.080 But it's always throughout my life that's never changed. In 0:21:40.119 --> 0:21:43.959 the new movie. I would say Donnie's probably my favorite character. 0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:46.200 I loved him, but I'm still a raft girl. Who's 0:21:46.240 --> 0:21:46.800 your title? 0:21:47.040 --> 0:21:51.080 Dona Tello was my favorite turtle for various reasons. One, 0:21:51.800 --> 0:21:55.600 you know, as you were mentioning what you gravitated to 0:21:57.000 --> 0:22:00.800 at that stage of your comics reading life, I definitely 0:22:00.880 --> 0:22:04.760 went I was like, what is the thing that is 0:22:04.800 --> 0:22:08.000 not popular? And that's what I like? And so like Dontello. 0:22:08.160 --> 0:22:09.840 I mean, they make a joke about it in the movie. 0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:13.879 He just has a stick, you know, And I was 0:22:13.920 --> 0:22:17.639 so I was like, that's cool, that's like accept that's accessible. 0:22:17.680 --> 0:22:20.840 Like I can go unscrew the head off the broom 0:22:20.960 --> 0:22:25.879 right now and have the weapon that Donatello has. Plus 0:22:25.920 --> 0:22:28.840 he was like the more yeah, and like, so I 0:22:28.880 --> 0:22:30.639 can just beat don Tello right now if I just 0:22:30.640 --> 0:22:33.840 like unscrew the broomhead. And then he was he was 0:22:34.200 --> 0:22:37.960 the more like, he was very adept at technology. He 0:22:38.119 --> 0:22:41.879 was kind of like the sneakier one and the quieter one. Also, 0:22:42.080 --> 0:22:44.920 like everybody else was much louder than him, but when 0:22:45.000 --> 0:22:47.320 he did speak, it was like it seemed to have 0:22:47.840 --> 0:22:49.919 some weight to it. And then he beat He was 0:22:49.960 --> 0:22:52.199 the one I forget, which issue it is. I think 0:22:52.240 --> 0:22:55.160 it's the first issue. He's the guy who beats Tredder 0:22:55.280 --> 0:22:57.160 like he beats Shredder at the end of the fight, 0:22:57.720 --> 0:23:00.879 and so I was like, Donatello, that's my guy. I 0:23:00.960 --> 0:23:03.119 liked I played him in the video game. He had 0:23:03.160 --> 0:23:05.760 the longer reach, like you could hit the guys from 0:23:05.800 --> 0:23:08.280 across the you know, further across the screen because it's 0:23:08.280 --> 0:23:12.800 this longer stick. And so Donald tell that's my guy. 0:23:12.840 --> 0:23:14.960 And I thought she was wonderful in the movie. 0:23:14.960 --> 0:23:16.680 So good in this also, I will say, I feel 0:23:16.720 --> 0:23:20.640 like you that's gotta be the most fulfilling Turtle to love, 0:23:20.680 --> 0:23:23.280 because he definitely was like the lesser loved one before. 0:23:23.440 --> 0:23:25.959 But I feel like over the years, everyone who has 0:23:26.080 --> 0:23:29.760 created a Turtles show or a Turtles movie they loved Donatello. 0:23:29.840 --> 0:23:32.080 And then you get to this point where I feel like, 0:23:32.160 --> 0:23:35.560 for me, he was absolutely like the standout of the movie. 0:23:35.920 --> 0:23:38.720 That must be a fulfilling journey as to see this 0:23:38.840 --> 0:23:41.840 character you love get better back. And as we learned 0:23:42.000 --> 0:23:45.400 he I believe it is. It's Donna Tello who's wearing 0:23:45.400 --> 0:23:48.040 the JoJo's Bizarre adventurehoodie when they go into school. So 0:23:48.080 --> 0:23:49.800 there is like this is a movie full of pop 0:23:49.800 --> 0:23:52.879 culture references, but I actually found it quite charming and 0:23:53.000 --> 0:23:56.000 it didn't overwhelm me. I enjoyed. I enjoyed the kind 0:23:56.000 --> 0:23:58.960 of nods and the fact they're talking about endgame, Like sure, 0:23:59.119 --> 0:24:02.880 end games? Who in that universe? Like, I mean. 0:24:04.480 --> 0:24:07.240 That got huge laughs in the theater. 0:24:07.600 --> 0:24:08.280 Yeah, that was the same. 0:24:08.600 --> 0:24:12.360 That particular joke was one that like all the adults 0:24:12.440 --> 0:24:17.520 and all their kids could enjoy, and it was so funny. 0:24:18.680 --> 0:24:20.560 It's one of those fun things. I think, like the 0:24:20.600 --> 0:24:23.440 best references, Right, they either make you go like, oh, 0:24:23.440 --> 0:24:26.240 that's cool, or they open up your mind to, like 0:24:26.400 --> 0:24:28.880 as storytellers, as people who watch this stuff, as people 0:24:28.920 --> 0:24:32.680 who write theories, fans, whatever, they open your mind to, like, okay, 0:24:32.680 --> 0:24:35.400 so if the Avengers exists in this university, what does 0:24:35.440 --> 0:24:38.280 that mean to the universe? Like, what does it mean? 0:24:38.520 --> 0:24:41.600 And obviously also you get the the moment with the 0:24:41.840 --> 0:24:44.320 Ferris Bueller's day off when they're like watching it and 0:24:44.320 --> 0:24:45.800 all they want to do is like go high school 0:24:45.800 --> 0:24:48.119 so they can take over a parade. I love it 0:24:48.160 --> 0:24:51.720 when you learn that something. I love the implication essentially 0:24:51.760 --> 0:24:54.080 that this is our world. Yeah, I think that's really 0:24:54.080 --> 0:24:56.440 powerful and I think it's magical for kids. 0:24:57.200 --> 0:25:03.360 Uh teen teenage meeting Ninja Turtles Mt. Mayhem in theaters. 0:25:03.400 --> 0:25:07.880 Now up next more turtle stuff with an omnibus about 0:25:07.880 --> 0:25:30.520 the teenage mute Ninja Turtles. Welcome to another chapter of 0:25:30.560 --> 0:25:34.880 the omnibus where we're talking about the teenage mute Ninja 0:25:34.920 --> 0:25:38.719 Turtles and their origin and their deeper origin today. Popular art, 0:25:38.760 --> 0:25:42.240 as we have talked about on this podcast quite often, 0:25:43.119 --> 0:25:47.160 is a product of a dialogue between creativity and commerce. 0:25:47.320 --> 0:25:49.760 And you know, there are numerous examples of this, but 0:25:49.840 --> 0:25:53.919 I think that when you hear about the history of 0:25:53.960 --> 0:25:58.080 the teenager Ninja Turtles, you'll come to realize as I have, 0:25:58.720 --> 0:26:01.359 that the Turtles now and there fourth decade of pizza 0:26:01.359 --> 0:26:06.080 stained martial arts action existence are perhaps one of the 0:26:06.119 --> 0:26:12.159 most unique products of this dialogue between commerce and creativity. 0:26:12.200 --> 0:26:14.720 Created in nineteen eighty three by comics fans Kevin Eastman 0:26:14.760 --> 0:26:17.720 and Peter Laird, the Turtles and the Best Tradition of 0:26:17.760 --> 0:26:20.639 fan created art were a barely veiled ode to some 0:26:20.720 --> 0:26:24.640 of the most popular comics tropes of their day. You've 0:26:24.680 --> 0:26:27.639 heard Rosie talk about this lots of times. From the 0:26:27.800 --> 0:26:30.360 X Men came the word mutants. Mutants were big, and therefore, 0:26:30.880 --> 0:26:33.679 let's do something with mutants. Eastman and Laird taught you 0:26:33.680 --> 0:26:37.080 know what else was big. Teenagers were big at this time. 0:26:37.119 --> 0:26:42.080 The Teen Titans solo title had launched in nineteen eighty 0:26:42.440 --> 0:26:47.280 and The New Mutants, the offshoot of the X Men team. 0:26:47.359 --> 0:26:52.760 The teen team of young Mutants over at the Xavier's 0:26:52.800 --> 0:26:55.640 Academy just going into the field on their own, had 0:26:55.720 --> 0:27:01.639 launched contemporaneously, with Eastman and Laird starting to create these characters, 0:27:02.280 --> 0:27:05.920 Frank Miller's pioneering run on Daredevil was mined extensively. The 0:27:06.040 --> 0:27:09.119 Ninja villains The Hand became the Turtles antagonist The Foot. 0:27:10.080 --> 0:27:13.800 Miller and artist Claus Jensen's gritty, blood drench martial arts 0:27:13.840 --> 0:27:17.320 tone was brought over basically intact in that early black 0:27:17.359 --> 0:27:21.440 and white run, and then, you know, for the kind 0:27:21.440 --> 0:27:24.720 of highbrow stuff, they turned to the Italian Renaissance with 0:27:24.760 --> 0:27:27.800 the artist Leonardo Donotelo Rafaela Micalandrew, who gave our heroes 0:27:27.800 --> 0:27:30.960 their name. In nineteen eighty four, using a family loan 0:27:31.200 --> 0:27:34.840 and some cash from a tax return, He's been and 0:27:34.920 --> 0:27:38.199 Laird printed three thousand copies of Teenage mun Ninja Turtles 0:27:38.280 --> 0:27:42.480 number one under their own Mirage Comics banner, founded in 0:27:42.520 --> 0:27:47.080 their living room, and with a you know, a turtle 0:27:47.119 --> 0:27:48.919 shell and a prayer, they bought an ad in the 0:27:49.040 --> 0:27:54.040 Comics Buyer's Guy. Then really the bible of how to 0:27:54.840 --> 0:27:57.479 get comics and how to see what comics were out 0:27:57.520 --> 0:28:02.000 there in the marketplace. And that's how Eastman and Laird 0:28:02.160 --> 0:28:08.960 entered the then kind of nascent direct market of comics publishing, 0:28:09.359 --> 0:28:13.159 by which local comic shops would kind of like cut 0:28:13.200 --> 0:28:17.959 out the middle distributors to buy direct from the publishers. 0:28:17.960 --> 0:28:21.800 In this case Mirage and Eastman and Laird. Teenager Ninja 0:28:21.840 --> 0:28:25.919 Turtles number one sold out, all three thousand issues gone. 0:28:26.840 --> 0:28:31.359 A six thousand issue reprint followed it sold out as well. 0:28:31.920 --> 0:28:34.280 From this, Eastman and Laird pocket at a tidy two 0:28:34.400 --> 0:28:39.080 hundred dollars profit, not bad for you early eighties money. So, 0:28:39.280 --> 0:28:42.120 realizing that their little lark of a small business project 0:28:42.200 --> 0:28:48.320 was resonating, perhaps indicating a deeper vein of interest in 0:28:48.400 --> 0:28:51.719 these characters, Eastman and Laird went back to the literal 0:28:51.800 --> 0:28:56.480 drawing board and about a year later, Teenage Mutant Ninja 0:28:56.560 --> 0:29:00.320 Turtles Number two went to print. Now this by the time, 0:29:00.320 --> 0:29:03.800 the characters were a grassroots sensation, and of course retailers 0:29:04.400 --> 0:29:07.920 seeing that thought, well, listen, you can't just send us 0:29:08.160 --> 0:29:10.240 number two when number one is sold out. You also 0:29:10.240 --> 0:29:13.360 have to reprint number one, right, And so they did 0:29:13.400 --> 0:29:18.360 that and thus began a new run of Teenage Mit 0:29:18.440 --> 0:29:23.200 Ninja Turtles, and all the issues sold regularly into the 0:29:23.360 --> 0:29:29.080 five and occasionally six figures, which are just incredibly huge 0:29:29.200 --> 0:29:32.240 numbers for an indie, Like huge numbers for an indie, 0:29:32.480 --> 0:29:33.040 like if you're. 0:29:32.880 --> 0:29:34.960 Talking six year, if it happens now. 0:29:35.640 --> 0:29:38.120 A big deal of it, absolutely a huge deal of 0:29:38.160 --> 0:29:43.840 it happened now. And some of their issues like we're 0:29:43.960 --> 0:29:47.360 flirting with numbers that like you would get it the 0:29:47.400 --> 0:29:50.840 big two, like at some of their medium range books, 0:29:50.880 --> 0:29:57.320 like this was huge, huge stuff. And seeing this, in 0:29:57.440 --> 0:30:00.960 nineteen eighty six, Playmates Toys came calling, a subsidiary of 0:30:01.000 --> 0:30:04.760 Hong Kong based Playmates Holdings. The company had a plan 0:30:04.880 --> 0:30:08.800 to turn the Turtles into a line of merch appealing 0:30:08.920 --> 0:30:13.080 to kids. So their plan first was to see the 0:30:13.120 --> 0:30:16.040 marketplace with an animated television show that would run in 0:30:16.120 --> 0:30:19.320 various markets, you know, kind of a limited run television 0:30:19.320 --> 0:30:22.160 show that would kind of like build up the hunger 0:30:22.480 --> 0:30:27.200 amongst their targeted fan base for all things teenage muant 0:30:27.240 --> 0:30:30.720 Ninja Turtles. But of course, before they did that, you know, 0:30:30.840 --> 0:30:34.560 some of the stuff, some of the things in the 0:30:34.600 --> 0:30:39.920 black and white original run needed to change from day one, 0:30:40.760 --> 0:30:43.440 Eastman said in an interview with The Comics Journal from 0:30:43.520 --> 0:30:47.760 nineteen ninety eight, the first meetings at Playmates, they wanted changes. 0:30:48.000 --> 0:30:52.040 The early issues had violence, but not graphic violence. He continues, 0:30:52.360 --> 0:30:55.840 Playmates said, our specific audience is four to eight year olds, 0:30:55.840 --> 0:30:58.440 so you can do the math on that, right. A lot 0:30:58.480 --> 0:31:01.720 of stuff needed to change, a lot of the violence 0:31:01.720 --> 0:31:04.240 needed to be toned down. Some of the language, which 0:31:04.640 --> 0:31:07.520 was never really that explicit in the original run, but 0:31:07.640 --> 0:31:11.760 like did kind of, like I guess, kind of dip 0:31:11.800 --> 0:31:16.000 a toe into explicit language. Some of that needed to 0:31:16.520 --> 0:31:20.120 be dialed down. And of course the Turtles had by 0:31:20.160 --> 0:31:23.720 this time already transitioned to color, as Rosie mentioned, all 0:31:23.800 --> 0:31:30.280 red bandanas. But as we start to enter the animated space, 0:31:30.360 --> 0:31:33.000 certainly things are going to need to change more significantly. 0:31:33.160 --> 0:31:37.000 And here is where the Playmates marketing team really made 0:31:37.000 --> 0:31:41.680 their imprint and really let their influence be felt. And 0:31:41.720 --> 0:31:44.560 this is where that conversation between art and commerce really 0:31:44.560 --> 0:31:51.480 becomes a very even sided conversation. So the Playmates marketing 0:31:51.520 --> 0:31:55.760 team are the reason that we have differently colored masks 0:31:56.000 --> 0:31:58.800 for the Turtles, for instance, in order to tell them apart. 0:31:59.240 --> 0:32:04.200 They are the horse of any number of catchphrases iconic 0:32:04.320 --> 0:32:09.200 catchphrases from the teenage m Ninja Turtles animated series, including 0:32:09.240 --> 0:32:12.560 Turtle Power and of course the legendary Cowabunga. Now the 0:32:12.640 --> 0:32:15.800 latter Cowabungo was the focus of a five million dollar 0:32:15.920 --> 0:32:18.400 lawsuit by Buffalo Bob Smith, the host of the Howdy 0:32:18.400 --> 0:32:20.240 Do Do Show, which ran from nineteen forty seven to 0:32:20.320 --> 0:32:26.360 nineteen sixty. Buffalo Bob claimed that, hey, the Turtles stole Cowabungo, 0:32:26.440 --> 0:32:28.880 which we used on the Howdy Doty program back in 0:32:28.960 --> 0:32:32.520 the back in the forties. Sure, and how dare you? 0:32:32.560 --> 0:32:32.800 Sir? 0:32:33.920 --> 0:32:36.360 At Eastman and Lair decided that, you know what, this 0:32:36.520 --> 0:32:39.240 is not worth the trouble, and they eventually settled for 0:32:39.360 --> 0:32:43.040 fifty thousand dollars on the five million. Oh also, pizza 0:32:43.080 --> 0:32:46.840 came from Playmates. Can you imagine like this, what more 0:32:47.080 --> 0:32:49.719 iconic thing could come out? Can you associate with the 0:32:49.760 --> 0:32:54.360 Turtles than pizza? And that was part of the contributions 0:32:54.360 --> 0:32:55.800 from the playmates execs. 0:32:56.040 --> 0:32:57.800 Yeah, I was thinking a lot about this when I 0:32:57.840 --> 0:33:02.200 was writing my Cynthia Eutron piece at IGN because David Wise, 0:33:02.400 --> 0:33:04.600 who has spoken a lot about how involved he was 0:33:04.600 --> 0:33:07.440 with this, he actually created Krang, who I would say 0:33:07.560 --> 0:33:12.480 is probably the most well mystery, the most well known 0:33:12.560 --> 0:33:18.000 Ninja Turtles villain probably is Krang. And that didn't come 0:33:18.080 --> 0:33:19.880 he didn't come from the comics. He was influenced by 0:33:19.880 --> 0:33:23.920 the Eutromsey's kind of brain looking aliens. But even that, 0:33:23.960 --> 0:33:26.080 when I was like kind of revisiting it, it is 0:33:26.560 --> 0:33:32.640 such a unique space in this cultural idea of like commerce. 0:33:32.720 --> 0:33:37.360 And also this is why Turtles became so popular. It 0:33:37.400 --> 0:33:40.080 was already a comic shop, but like, this is how 0:33:40.200 --> 0:33:42.720 kids found out about it, this is how it became 0:33:42.720 --> 0:33:46.080 a global phenomenon. And this is how many many years 0:33:46.160 --> 0:33:49.920 later Peter Laird would sell the Ninja Turtles to Nickelodeon 0:33:49.960 --> 0:33:55.760 familiar that not enough money, not enough money, and he 0:33:55.760 --> 0:33:56.800 didn't not get enough money. 0:33:57.560 --> 0:34:01.479 Okay, So the overall soft of the Turtles aesthetic and 0:34:01.760 --> 0:34:05.400 various story elements was a you know, as you can 0:34:05.440 --> 0:34:07.400 see from the fact that we're talking about the Turtles 0:34:07.440 --> 0:34:11.200 and the Year of Our Lord twenty twenty three extremely lucrative, 0:34:11.719 --> 0:34:15.960 resulted in numerous television programs, various spinoffs of those programs, 0:34:16.000 --> 0:34:19.359 several waves of toy crazes, multiple video games. Of course, 0:34:19.400 --> 0:34:25.440 the movies, various comics runs across three or four different 0:34:25.560 --> 0:34:31.920 comics companies. But the changes didn't necessarily go down smoothly 0:34:32.000 --> 0:34:37.279 with the creative team. Kevin Eastman said in nineteen ninety 0:34:37.280 --> 0:34:40.280 eight with the Comics Journal quote, it probably affected Pete 0:34:40.280 --> 0:34:42.960 more than it did me. He was really upset about it, 0:34:43.000 --> 0:34:45.120 and even today he's very much of a purist as 0:34:45.120 --> 0:34:48.000 far as the Turtles go. But it was something we 0:34:48.080 --> 0:34:51.000 both agreed to. We'd have long, long talks and ultimately 0:34:51.040 --> 0:34:54.560 say we can live with this. You know, all this 0:34:54.640 --> 0:34:56.600 stuff was done in nineteen eighty six, in the early 0:34:56.640 --> 0:34:59.000 part of nineteen eighty seven, while developing the toys and 0:34:59.040 --> 0:35:01.640 the cartoons, even and through that whole period, we never 0:35:01.719 --> 0:35:03.600 really believed that it was going to happen. And of 0:35:03.640 --> 0:35:06.839 course it did happen, and they became very, very rich, 0:35:06.880 --> 0:35:13.800 and here we are now. Rosie mentioned it in two thousand. 0:35:14.520 --> 0:35:18.399 Eastman sold his steak in the Turtles to laird, who 0:35:18.680 --> 0:35:21.439 you know, in Eastman's telling was kind of the more 0:35:21.600 --> 0:35:27.880 passionate and originalist of the purest. Yes. Now, the laird 0:35:28.400 --> 0:35:31.080 then turned around and sold the rights to Viacom, and 0:35:31.160 --> 0:35:34.360 of course, you know, you can follow the kind of 0:35:34.400 --> 0:35:38.879 corporate restructuring and machinations that follow here. But through Viacom, 0:35:39.320 --> 0:35:44.360 the property eventually landed at Nickelodeon, which is how Teenage 0:35:44.440 --> 0:35:47.520 mun Ninja Turtles Mute Mayhem comes to us today. 0:35:48.680 --> 0:35:51.440 Yeah, and and Pa Led sold it in two thousand 0:35:51.440 --> 0:35:57.240 and nine for sixty million dollars. Now I understand that 0:35:55.200 --> 0:35:59.759 a normal person, that is a lot of money. That's 0:35:59.800 --> 0:36:02.320 a life changing amount of money. But I am saying, 0:36:02.400 --> 0:36:06.560 I'm talking if you're selling Star Wars or Marvel for 0:36:06.719 --> 0:36:10.319 like four billion. Yeah, right now, it's not it's not 0:36:10.440 --> 0:36:13.600 that level. I'm talking. I'm saying five hundred mil. I'm saying, 0:36:13.600 --> 0:36:16.239 I think you kill minimum the amount of money that 0:36:16.360 --> 0:36:19.440 Nickelodeon has made off these off the live action movies 0:36:19.440 --> 0:36:22.799 that they've done since then, Off this movie, like it 0:36:22.840 --> 0:36:25.600 was not enough. But I love I love that Peter 0:36:25.680 --> 0:36:27.799 did it in a pure way. And now you know, 0:36:27.960 --> 0:36:31.080 Kevin is doing the last row, in which was a 0:36:31.160 --> 0:36:33.239 huge success for IDW and that was based on an 0:36:33.239 --> 0:36:36.000 idea him and Peter had. There was a great documentary 0:36:36.440 --> 0:36:39.640 made about the Ninja Turtles. I believe it's called Turtle Power, 0:36:39.680 --> 0:36:42.600 The Definitive History of the Teenage Man and Ninja Tals. 0:36:42.719 --> 0:36:44.240 It's now on Paramount. 0:36:43.760 --> 0:36:49.560 Plat Turtle Power, and that has a really great art 0:36:49.760 --> 0:36:52.320 about their journey as friends, as collaborators. 0:36:52.480 --> 0:36:55.080 The way they broke people off at Mirage Comics in 0:36:55.080 --> 0:36:58.040 the eighties and nineties are the creators like Stan Sakai. 0:36:58.239 --> 0:37:01.400 They would bring the characters that they like Saga your Jimbo, 0:37:01.600 --> 0:37:03.880 and they would put them into toy production so their 0:37:03.880 --> 0:37:06.440 friends could make money. And there's a really great arc 0:37:06.480 --> 0:37:08.400 about Peter and Kevin, and they even have a kind 0:37:08.440 --> 0:37:11.600 of reunion between the two of them that kind of 0:37:11.680 --> 0:37:14.400 led on to where we are now. So yeah, also, Jason, 0:37:14.440 --> 0:37:18.239 I want to hear about that the reasons that you 0:37:18.440 --> 0:37:22.759 think they resonated, because you have some great thoughts here 0:37:22.800 --> 0:37:25.799 about like anthromorphic kind of storytelling. 0:37:25.600 --> 0:37:28.800 Question isn't it right? Like why was it? Why the turtles? 0:37:28.800 --> 0:37:30.920 What what happened? And I'll get to that, but I 0:37:30.960 --> 0:37:33.279 think one of the things that's interesting to me about 0:37:33.320 --> 0:37:37.359 the turtles on an intellectual level is how they are 0:37:37.440 --> 0:37:42.840 part of this kind of fundamental human by human, I 0:37:42.880 --> 0:37:50.240 mean like Homo sapien, like us as a species, storytelling 0:37:52.000 --> 0:37:58.880 kind of storytelling adaptation that we have, and how they 0:37:58.880 --> 0:38:06.560 are part of this tradition and of anthropomorphism in human creativity. Anthropomorphism, 0:38:06.560 --> 0:38:11.440 which is the technique of kind of combining animals or 0:38:11.600 --> 0:38:15.239 objects with human characteristics, is of course a staple of 0:38:15.320 --> 0:38:18.799 popular culture, you know, like point at any Disney movie, right, 0:38:21.040 --> 0:38:25.480 And in particular this is a feature of content that 0:38:25.680 --> 0:38:28.919 is aimed at kids throughout history, like literally going back 0:38:28.920 --> 0:38:34.360 into the far reaches of prehistory, even the low inments 0:38:34.800 --> 0:38:38.319 figuring the so called lion Men of Holsteinstadl is an 0:38:38.400 --> 0:38:41.279 ivory sculpture of a person with a lion's head, and 0:38:41.320 --> 0:38:45.920 it's the earliest example of anthropomorphism and is dated anywhere 0:38:45.960 --> 0:38:50.839 from thirty five thousand to forty one thousand years old. 0:38:50.920 --> 0:38:53.560 And when you really think about, like what an incredible 0:38:56.120 --> 0:39:00.920 example of like cognitive flexibility. This is we see an animal, 0:39:00.960 --> 0:39:05.000 we imagine ourselves as that animal in order to understand 0:39:05.040 --> 0:39:08.560 what it's doing. This is really something that is unique 0:39:08.600 --> 0:39:15.680 to people archaeologist Stephen Mithin, in a really wonderfully caddy 0:39:15.840 --> 0:39:19.400 response to critics in a December nineteen ninety six issue 0:39:19.400 --> 0:39:22.640 of the Journal of Royal Anthropological Institute, noted that quote 0:39:22.920 --> 0:39:25.600 anthropomorphic thinking does appear to be an effective means for 0:39:25.640 --> 0:39:29.680 predicting animal behavior. In other words, his idea was that, 0:39:30.080 --> 0:39:33.239 you know, Stone Age hunters, in order to figure out 0:39:33.320 --> 0:39:38.439 the migrations of say, herds of Ibex or something like that, 0:39:38.880 --> 0:39:41.319 would wonder if I was an Ibex, what would I do? 0:39:41.520 --> 0:39:43.839 What would I do? Where would I go? Where would 0:39:43.880 --> 0:39:47.600 I sleep? And through this process eventually found success in 0:39:47.680 --> 0:39:51.360 hunting Ibex. In that same journal, myth And theorized the 0:39:51.480 --> 0:39:59.280 reason for children's interest in anthwerpomorphisms throughout history is perhaps 0:39:59.440 --> 0:40:04.360 because quote from birth, they are surrounded by material artifacts 0:40:04.400 --> 0:40:07.359 that are intentionally designed to cause cognitive fluity. We don't 0:40:07.400 --> 0:40:10.399 we kind of like overlook this about the way we 0:40:10.400 --> 0:40:13.120 were raised as kids and the way we interact with kids. 0:40:13.440 --> 0:40:16.600 About how confusing when you really think about it. You know, 0:40:16.640 --> 0:40:21.040 you give a kid a doll that is a tiger, right, 0:40:21.040 --> 0:40:22.800 that is the picture of a tiger, or the picture 0:40:22.800 --> 0:40:25.360 of a teenage ninja turtle right, and it's not a turtle, 0:40:25.719 --> 0:40:30.040 but you expect them to understand that it is not 0:40:31.360 --> 0:40:33.840 what it is, but it's something else. Right, This is 0:40:33.880 --> 0:40:39.120 like we are intentionally confusing kids so that their minds 0:40:39.200 --> 0:40:42.920 become more fluid. And I think, what this what this 0:40:42.960 --> 0:40:45.440 all brings me to is I think for me, the 0:40:45.480 --> 0:40:49.160 reason that the that the turtles resonate and what I 0:40:49.160 --> 0:40:52.160 think was so wonderful for me about this movie was 0:40:52.920 --> 0:40:59.319 the way the turtles uh kind of activate empathy, particularly 0:41:00.120 --> 0:41:05.279 for kids. Right, Like, you're a kid, You're concerned. It's 0:41:05.320 --> 0:41:07.600 hard now as an adult to kind of like reach 0:41:07.680 --> 0:41:11.279 back and get into contact with what a day to 0:41:11.400 --> 0:41:15.720 day like wilderness, going to school was as a kid, 0:41:15.760 --> 0:41:18.440 and it's like everything feels like life or death, and 0:41:18.480 --> 0:41:20.600 it's like do people like me? And if they don't 0:41:20.719 --> 0:41:22.400 like me or make fun of me, everything's going to 0:41:22.480 --> 0:41:24.960 fall apart, and like you're living minutes to minute and 0:41:25.000 --> 0:41:27.120 day to day. And one of the cool things about 0:41:27.160 --> 0:41:33.160 the Turtles is it empowers kids empathy. Right, you see 0:41:33.200 --> 0:41:38.400 yourself as these special martial arts turtles who are also outcasts, 0:41:38.400 --> 0:41:39.759 and what do they want? They just want to be 0:41:39.880 --> 0:41:41.840 like every other kid, every other normal kid. But of 0:41:41.840 --> 0:41:44.520 course they can't be because they're turtles, but because they 0:41:44.520 --> 0:41:50.000 are anthropomorphic turtles, it allows kids to interact with their 0:41:50.080 --> 0:41:53.200 empathy in a way that protects them from kind of 0:41:53.239 --> 0:41:57.839 like the more occasionally troubling aspects of empathy, which is 0:41:58.320 --> 0:42:03.680 the questions that arise from uh, you know uh your 0:42:03.719 --> 0:42:13.520 own relationship with the with your other classmates, or let's say, 0:42:13.800 --> 0:42:18.360 you know bullying. Uh, where does one stand in a 0:42:18.440 --> 0:42:21.600 power dynamic between a bully and and the and the 0:42:21.640 --> 0:42:23.879 target of the bully? How or how am I being 0:42:23.880 --> 0:42:26.240 a bully to someone else? All of these kind of questions, 0:42:26.440 --> 0:42:30.920 how do how does? How does empathy work if someone 0:42:30.920 --> 0:42:33.960 looks different than me or believes something different than me? Right? 0:42:34.000 --> 0:42:36.719 All of these questions are really complex and can can 0:42:36.719 --> 0:42:39.759 get really naughty and make you question a lot of 0:42:39.760 --> 0:42:43.120 things about the way you were brought up in your experiences. 0:42:43.280 --> 0:42:47.400 But when you have answeromorphic turtles, all of a sudden, 0:42:47.440 --> 0:42:51.040 all of that stuff becomes much easier to play with 0:42:51.360 --> 0:42:55.400 and much more relatable and much easier to grab a 0:42:55.520 --> 0:43:00.319 hold of. Right, the outsider noess, the need to bel long, 0:43:00.880 --> 0:43:03.600 the desire to be special but also to be like 0:43:03.680 --> 0:43:07.920 everybody else. All that the turtles give to us by 0:43:07.960 --> 0:43:14.480 the fact that they are turtles with the personalities of people. Yeah, 0:43:14.800 --> 0:43:16.960 what do you think do you think the turtles resonate? 0:43:17.400 --> 0:43:20.120 I love that so much. I mean, it's hard to top, 0:43:20.280 --> 0:43:22.399 but I would just say I think you're absolutely right. 0:43:22.520 --> 0:43:26.080 I also think they're essentially like a gateway to other 0:43:26.239 --> 0:43:30.120 analogous storytelling. So like when you're a kid, the turtle 0:43:30.160 --> 0:43:33.520 aspect of it all makes it less terrifying to consider 0:43:33.560 --> 0:43:38.279 these ideas of empathy. They make it less obviously analogous, 0:43:38.360 --> 0:43:41.520 less obviously about you and your experiences, and they also 0:43:41.560 --> 0:43:45.000 give you a hero wish fulfillment. Yeah. I might be 0:43:45.000 --> 0:43:47.279 an outcast, but I can do something good. And what 0:43:47.360 --> 0:43:49.880 I love is then you know, you go from reading 0:43:49.880 --> 0:43:52.120 the Turtles or watching the Turtles on TV, and then 0:43:52.160 --> 0:43:55.040 you see the X Men, and that becomes more obviously 0:43:55.080 --> 0:43:57.719 about the human struggles, but you still have that same 0:43:57.719 --> 0:44:02.239 analogous storytelling that comes from from science fiction traditions, that 0:44:02.280 --> 0:44:04.960 comes from the idea of using stories for the power 0:44:04.960 --> 0:44:07.439 that they can impart. So I mean, I cannot top 0:44:07.520 --> 0:44:09.759 what you said because I absolutely love that theory and 0:44:09.800 --> 0:44:11.440 I think you're so right. But I think one of 0:44:11.440 --> 0:44:14.440 the coolest things and the reason that they've resonated for 0:44:14.480 --> 0:44:18.239 so long is these are almost a starter set of 0:44:18.360 --> 0:44:20.839 characters and a starter set of tropes and a starter 0:44:20.960 --> 0:44:26.640 set of stories that will inevitably lead to other art 0:44:26.719 --> 0:44:29.759 forms and other comic book storytelling. And I think that's 0:44:29.760 --> 0:44:31.480 really cool. And I think the fact that both of 0:44:31.560 --> 0:44:33.359 us watched it when we were kids in here now 0:44:33.400 --> 0:44:36.080 talking about this stuff every week is great proof of that. 0:44:36.440 --> 0:44:38.360 Like two people from two different sides of the world, 0:44:38.680 --> 0:44:41.160 and the Turtles was still one of those first things 0:44:41.800 --> 0:44:45.200 that got us into this space where we found these 0:44:45.200 --> 0:44:49.120 stories about characters that we wanted to know more about, 0:44:49.160 --> 0:44:51.120 that we wanted to care about, and that taught us 0:44:51.239 --> 0:44:53.640 lessons as we went into our life. I think it's lovely. 0:44:54.800 --> 0:44:59.719 Turtle power up next nerd Out. 0:45:00.280 --> 0:45:06.880 Yeah, in today's nerd Out, where you tell us what 0:45:06.960 --> 0:45:09.200 you love and why e theory you're excited to share 0:45:09.239 --> 0:45:11.560 or a quick question we can answer, Chris asks a 0:45:11.600 --> 0:45:13.839 fly on the war query. Now, Chris, I love this 0:45:13.920 --> 0:45:17.240 because you are big thinking here. This is almost existential 0:45:17.520 --> 0:45:20.759 and I adore this. Hi, Rosie and Jason, I love 0:45:20.800 --> 0:45:22.719 the podcast, even though I know little about the many 0:45:22.719 --> 0:45:24.920 deep dives that you two take. But that's precisely why 0:45:24.960 --> 0:45:27.960 I love listening. I've always found so much enjoyment being 0:45:28.000 --> 0:45:31.160 a fly on the wall listening to two experts discuss something, 0:45:31.400 --> 0:45:33.839 the more specific the bell, Like I have two friends 0:45:33.840 --> 0:45:36.800 who build elevators for a living. Even though the nuances 0:45:36.840 --> 0:45:38.759 of their discussions are well over my head, I find 0:45:38.800 --> 0:45:41.160 it fascinating. That's how I often feel when listening to 0:45:41.200 --> 0:45:43.719 certain parts of X ray vision. So my question for 0:45:43.760 --> 0:45:47.800 the two of you, what specific topic would you enjoy 0:45:47.960 --> 0:45:51.399 just silently listening to as a fly on the wall. 0:45:51.440 --> 0:45:53.120 This is such an epic question. 0:45:54.120 --> 0:45:57.200 I you know, you go first because I have I'll 0:45:57.239 --> 0:46:00.440 just go through my YouTube history and all like what 0:46:00.480 --> 0:46:04.240 I use it for. But what's what would a topic 0:46:04.320 --> 0:46:04.799 be for you? 0:46:05.360 --> 0:46:07.840 For me as a fly on the wall, It's very 0:46:07.880 --> 0:46:11.520 hard to imagine it being something outside of the sphere 0:46:11.560 --> 0:46:14.040 of what I love, because, for example, things that I 0:46:14.239 --> 0:46:16.640 listen to and love to watch that are not in 0:46:16.719 --> 0:46:19.240 my sphere of knowledge. I watch a lot of NHK, 0:46:19.480 --> 0:46:22.480 which is like the national Japanese broadcast channel, and they 0:46:22.480 --> 0:46:26.240 have incredible episodes of a show called Trails to Oishi 0:46:26.560 --> 0:46:29.480 where it's basically just like, how do you pickle a 0:46:29.560 --> 0:46:32.439 radish Like I love stuff like that, Like I want 0:46:32.440 --> 0:46:35.760 to know the exact way to ferment the perfect piece 0:46:35.800 --> 0:46:38.120 of soybean, Like I do love that kind of stuff. 0:46:38.200 --> 0:46:40.640 But if I was to be a fly on the wall, 0:46:41.239 --> 0:46:45.440 I would be like flying back into comics history. I 0:46:45.600 --> 0:46:47.200 just want to be a fly on the wall, Like 0:46:47.800 --> 0:46:52.080 listening to Jack Kirby coming into the Marvel office when 0:46:52.080 --> 0:46:54.600 he finds like Stanley crying because they're going to shut 0:46:54.600 --> 0:46:56.279 down the office and he's like, don't worry, kid, I 0:46:56.320 --> 0:46:58.560 got this, Or like I want to be in the 0:46:58.640 --> 0:47:03.319 room where Todd and Jimley and Rob Leifeld and all 0:47:03.360 --> 0:47:05.319 the crew are like talking about founding Image, Like I 0:47:05.320 --> 0:47:07.560 think for me it would be getting to hear and 0:47:07.719 --> 0:47:12.120 experience like these unbelievable historical moments that you sort of 0:47:12.200 --> 0:47:16.239 can't really even conceive because in the moment, nobody knew 0:47:16.239 --> 0:47:18.200 they would be important. That to me would if I 0:47:18.280 --> 0:47:20.759 was truly a fly on the wall, those would be 0:47:20.840 --> 0:47:23.360 the things I'd want to revisit, some of those incredible 0:47:23.400 --> 0:47:26.880 conversations and historical moments that no one kind of knew 0:47:27.000 --> 0:47:28.399 would become that at the time. 0:47:29.560 --> 0:47:33.920 Yeah, for me, it's always people in some sort of 0:47:34.040 --> 0:47:39.880 creative sphere talking about how the nuts and bolts of 0:47:39.920 --> 0:47:42.760 how they do the stuff that they do. For instance, 0:47:42.760 --> 0:47:46.480 now I'm going through my YouTube history. I recently went 0:47:46.560 --> 0:47:51.000 through a late night I read I do a lot 0:47:51.040 --> 0:47:55.719 of writing at night, a late night like ABBA phase. Well, yeah, 0:47:56.360 --> 0:48:00.319 I love I think they're I think that they're used 0:48:00.320 --> 0:48:03.719 to clearly the greatest music group to come out of Eurovision. 0:48:04.320 --> 0:48:09.719 Uh and so like I've I just threw on the 0:48:09.840 --> 0:48:12.799 twenty twenty two ABBA documentary and just like had that 0:48:12.840 --> 0:48:16.000 going in the background. It's like very interesting to me 0:48:16.120 --> 0:48:21.000 to listen to these creative people, to couples, you know, 0:48:21.080 --> 0:48:23.960 two married couples who got into music because they were 0:48:24.000 --> 0:48:26.720 just they would just like hang out and sing together, 0:48:27.719 --> 0:48:32.440 talk about how they created really some of the most 0:48:32.480 --> 0:48:36.919 like perfect earworm pop songs. It's so weird that call 0:48:36.960 --> 0:48:41.520 on Like when when when I hear the term like 0:48:41.680 --> 0:48:44.839 white culture, I think ABBA in the best way, like 0:48:45.480 --> 0:48:49.840 it's pop music all yeah, like pop music. Water is 0:48:49.840 --> 0:48:52.879 a great example that calls on like this, like deep 0:48:53.080 --> 0:48:57.120 like European musical tradition with the big like a classical 0:48:57.120 --> 0:49:01.200 almost Shastakovich sounding like piano chor and the like wonderful, 0:49:01.280 --> 0:49:04.480 like almost folky melodies, like it's great stuff. I love 0:49:04.680 --> 0:49:07.520 doing that, or like another thing that I had here 0:49:07.680 --> 0:49:12.439 is just a conversation with David Milch, the TV writer 0:49:12.520 --> 0:49:16.200 who created Deadwood and wrote for Hill Street Blues and 0:49:16.840 --> 0:49:21.440 created NYPD Blue. Just him talking about, you know, his 0:49:21.480 --> 0:49:25.680 creative process. Anybody talking about like their their creative process. Yeah, 0:49:26.280 --> 0:49:32.759 with another person who is like steeped in the particular 0:49:32.840 --> 0:49:36.399 history of whatever space that that creative person applies their 0:49:36.400 --> 0:49:39.360 trade in is. I'll listen to that. I'll listen to 0:49:39.400 --> 0:49:42.040 that conversation ten times out of ten. It doesn't even 0:49:42.120 --> 0:49:44.560 have to be anything that I particularly know how to do. 0:49:44.880 --> 0:49:47.000 It could be like woodworking or something, and I just 0:49:47.480 --> 0:49:48.960 find that, oh yeah, I really enjoy it. 0:49:48.920 --> 0:49:51.880 But like slow, like woodworking trains. I listened to a 0:49:51.920 --> 0:49:52.920 lot of stuff like that. But you know, I have 0:49:52.960 --> 0:49:55.040 to share, Okay, so I think you'll write. I think 0:49:55.080 --> 0:49:58.640 that is the key. And I was lucky enough many 0:49:58.680 --> 0:50:01.279 years ago now. One of the set visits that I 0:50:01.400 --> 0:50:04.560 did when that was still a thing pre COVID, I 0:50:04.880 --> 0:50:06.960 visited the set of the first series of What We 0:50:07.080 --> 0:50:09.759 Do in the Shadows and it was in Toronto, and 0:50:09.800 --> 0:50:11.400 it was freezing cold, and we got to go to 0:50:11.440 --> 0:50:13.600 the X Mansion where they were filming a big thing. 0:50:14.160 --> 0:50:16.799 But that was one of the most mind blowing, like 0:50:16.960 --> 0:50:19.880 fly on the Wall experiences, because you're there as press 0:50:20.200 --> 0:50:23.040 and that was a very lax set, so I just 0:50:23.080 --> 0:50:25.799 got to spend I have so many unbelievable memories of 0:50:25.920 --> 0:50:29.360 just like a guy who was creating like a non 0:50:29.640 --> 0:50:33.200 toxic gel for setting himself on fire, and he just 0:50:33.239 --> 0:50:35.200 talked to him about it for like thirty minutes and 0:50:35.280 --> 0:50:37.319 kept just setting himself on fire, and he was like 0:50:37.320 --> 0:50:39.320 a viking. And it was also twelve women on the 0:50:39.360 --> 0:50:41.800 set visit, which you never get, which was incredible. The 0:50:41.840 --> 0:50:44.279 guy who was doing all the wirework stunts, he just 0:50:44.360 --> 0:50:46.960 came onto the coach where we were chilling outside and 0:50:47.000 --> 0:50:51.560 gave like a whole speech on all these different ways 0:50:51.560 --> 0:50:53.520 that they were using wireworks. We had the guy who 0:50:53.600 --> 0:50:55.239 was making the fake vomit. It was one of the 0:50:55.239 --> 0:50:57.480 set visits that I've been on that had the most 0:50:57.520 --> 0:51:01.200 amount of specific knowledge based the dresser, the person whose 0:51:01.280 --> 0:51:03.320 job it was to go to like the charity shops 0:51:03.360 --> 0:51:06.080 and buy old vintage stuff that would look like it 0:51:06.160 --> 0:51:09.799 fit into a vampire's house in New Jersey. That was 0:51:09.840 --> 0:51:12.360 a really mind blowing time because it was like getting 0:51:12.360 --> 0:51:14.920 to be a fly on the wall and hear the 0:51:14.960 --> 0:51:16.759 ins and outs of how things got made. And it 0:51:16.800 --> 0:51:19.480 also this was probably six years ago now or something, 0:51:19.520 --> 0:51:22.239 but it kind of blew my mind and opened my 0:51:22.320 --> 0:51:26.080 mind to just how many different jobs there are in 0:51:26.080 --> 0:51:29.399 filmmaking and how much I wished as a kid i'd 0:51:29.400 --> 0:51:33.240 have known that your job could be like dressing the set, 0:51:33.440 --> 0:51:35.839 or your job could be like somebody you're just some 0:51:35.880 --> 0:51:39.319 cool guy in overalls and you're like hammering together like 0:51:39.360 --> 0:51:41.719 a shelf that goes on the set. Like that's like 0:51:41.760 --> 0:51:44.240 a dream, you don't And then that was very profound 0:51:44.280 --> 0:51:46.239 to me. And that was definitely the time that I've 0:51:46.239 --> 0:51:49.439 felt most like, I know that that guy's just going 0:51:49.480 --> 0:51:52.120 around setting himself on fire talking about that gel to 0:51:52.200 --> 0:51:55.480 anyone who's on the set because he's a genius and like. 0:51:55.520 --> 0:51:57.680 So that was definitely the most fly on the wall experience, 0:51:57.719 --> 0:51:59.680 and honestly, it was amazing. I think about that all 0:51:59.719 --> 0:52:01.480 the time, So I think I would like to be 0:52:01.560 --> 0:52:04.160 a fly on the wall more. Actually, Chris, that was 0:52:04.200 --> 0:52:06.759 such a good question, wonderful question. I love it. If 0:52:06.800 --> 0:52:09.279 you have theories, passions or quick questions you want to share, 0:52:09.560 --> 0:52:12.560 hit us up at extra at Crooked dot com. Instructions 0:52:12.600 --> 0:52:13.480 are in the show notes. 0:52:15.480 --> 0:52:17.120 That's it for us, Rosie and he plugs. 0:52:18.680 --> 0:52:20.960 I am going to plug a piece of mine that 0:52:21.000 --> 0:52:25.240 went up at IgM. Piece though that's great, I wrote 0:52:25.239 --> 0:52:28.239 a piece. I will say it this way. I have 0:52:28.360 --> 0:52:30.640 been working on a piece of IgM for four years 0:52:31.880 --> 0:52:35.600 about the boom and bust of the comic book industry, 0:52:35.760 --> 0:52:41.239 and I was delightfully surprised this weekend when my brilliant editor, 0:52:41.280 --> 0:52:43.040 Scott Klaura reached out and was like, Hey, I think 0:52:43.080 --> 0:52:45.759 it's time, like, let's run it. You know, I'm really 0:52:45.760 --> 0:52:48.680 happy it went up. It's six thousand words. It has 0:52:48.760 --> 0:52:54.319 interviews with Tom McFarland, Louise Simonson, Jim Lee on the 0:52:54.400 --> 0:52:57.360 record talking about Image, Bob Layton, who really was an 0:52:57.440 --> 0:53:01.279 unbelievable source and gave some unbelievable numbers about Valiant. Is 0:53:01.400 --> 0:53:03.480 probably the piece I'm proudest of. I want to turn 0:53:03.520 --> 0:53:05.520 it into a book or a TV show or something 0:53:05.560 --> 0:53:07.759 because there's just such a great story to be told there. 0:53:08.000 --> 0:53:10.880 But for now you can read it on IGN, and 0:53:10.880 --> 0:53:13.120 I'm super proud of it, Kevin van Hook from Valiant 0:53:13.160 --> 0:53:17.200 also giving some great insight and because it's ended up 0:53:17.239 --> 0:53:19.560 coming out this year. There's also a great little chat 0:53:19.560 --> 0:53:21.920 with Ryan Skinner from Polp Fiction, which is my local 0:53:21.920 --> 0:53:25.240 comic shop in Long Beach about how there was actually 0:53:25.239 --> 0:53:28.160 like a mini boom and bust during COVID, which we knew, 0:53:28.440 --> 0:53:31.760 you know, as collectors, kind of there was this speculation boom, 0:53:31.760 --> 0:53:34.319 but it hasn't quite turned into a bust, but it's deflating. 0:53:34.719 --> 0:53:36.640 So just if you like the ins and outs, if 0:53:36.640 --> 0:53:39.120 you like business, if you like numbers, if you like 0:53:39.360 --> 0:53:42.640 Louise Simonson saying that they the only reason they did 0:53:42.680 --> 0:53:44.839 Death of Superman was because they were pissed off at 0:53:44.880 --> 0:53:47.400 DC and they just decided to kill him, you're gonna 0:53:47.400 --> 0:53:49.400 love it because that's exactly what happened. 0:53:52.960 --> 0:53:55.759 Catch the next episode Friday, August eleventh for an all 0:53:55.800 --> 0:53:58.200 Superman and Lois Lane themed episode. 0:53:58.320 --> 0:54:01.560 Woo perfect timing, and you can watch full episodes of 0:54:01.560 --> 0:54:04.279 the podcast on YouTube. Also check out Twitter and x 0:54:04.400 --> 0:54:07.160 mbi pod and on Discord hang Out with a ton 0:54:07.160 --> 0:54:07.920 of Cool fans. 0:54:08.320 --> 0:54:10.960 Five stars ratings, five star reviews we got out of them. 0:54:10.960 --> 0:54:12.600 You gotta give him those here's one from Jay Love 0:54:12.680 --> 0:54:15.880 ninety two Open Apple for the first time for this review. 0:54:15.920 --> 0:54:17.879 This podcast is like going back in time to watch 0:54:17.880 --> 0:54:21.400 anime and play video games with friends after school. Perfect. 0:54:21.719 --> 0:54:26.120 That's it. That's all we're going for. We're going for 0:54:26.360 --> 0:54:30.000 g Thank you, Jay Love ninety two. Xtra Vision is 0:54:30.000 --> 0:54:32.080 a Crooked Media production. The show is produced by Chris 0:54:32.080 --> 0:54:35.400 Lord and Saul Rumin and executive produced by me Jason Concepcio, 0:54:35.400 --> 0:54:38.000 and our editing and sound design is by Facilis Fotopoulos. 0:54:38.600 --> 0:54:42.480 Video production by Delon Villanueva and Rachel Gayeski. Social media 0:54:42.560 --> 0:54:46.040 by Awa o'clatti and Caroline Duncan. Thank you to Brian 0:54:46.080 --> 0:54:53.879 Basquez for a few See you next time. Whether you're 0:54:53.920 --> 0:54:56.879 a diehard comics fan or just getting into them, you're 0:54:56.920 --> 0:54:59.560 gonna love Comic Sans. Comic Sans is a podcast about 0:54:59.600 --> 0:55:04.360 comic for those who are sands knowledge. Join Yon, a 0:55:04.360 --> 0:55:07.520 comic reader, writer and lover, and Nat, who knows absolutely 0:55:07.600 --> 0:55:11.480 nothing about comics. Each episode, Yan introduces Nat to one 0:55:11.600 --> 0:55:14.600 of their favorite comics like The sand Man, Saga and 0:55:14.680 --> 0:55:17.719 Laura Olympus and shares what makes that comic special, and 0:55:17.760 --> 0:55:21.440 then Nat gives his thoughts on the comic, which only 0:55:21.480 --> 0:55:24.120 sometimes causes Deando freak out, but it's worth it every time. 0:55:24.360 --> 0:55:28.800 It's a podcast that comic lovers, haters, and undecided rs 0:55:29.160 --> 0:55:32.160 alike can enjoy, and you can binge the first season, 0:55:32.239 --> 0:55:35.240 including bonus episodes on Across the Spider Verse and Comic 0:55:35.320 --> 0:55:38.400 on Right Now. Find Comic Sans on Apple, Podcasts, Spotify, 0:55:38.480 --> 0:55:40.000 or wherever you get your podcasts.