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Speaker 1: Warning, this podcast contains spoilers for Teenage Mutant, Ninja, Turtles,

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Speaker 1: Mutant Mayhem, Turtle Power. Hello. My name is Jason Cepsion

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Speaker 1: and I'm Rosey Night and welcome to x ray Vision,

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Speaker 1: the crooked media podcast where we dive deep into your

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Speaker 1: favorite shows, movies, comics, and pop culture.

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Speaker 2: In this episode, starting with strike Watch, Gotta keep your datch,

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Speaker 2: some wild news dropped just before we started recording, and

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Speaker 2: we're happy to dropped before so we can talk about

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Speaker 2: it in the airlock. It's the the oozy, gooey delights

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Speaker 2: of and Mayhem. It's so good, but don't get milked.

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Speaker 1: Don't get milked, folks.

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Speaker 2: Don't get milked guys. And in ned out a question

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Speaker 2: about Fly on the Wall conversations.

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Speaker 1: Coming up next, strike Watch, Strike Watch. It was announced

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Speaker 1: today Monday seventh that the workers at Marvel, the VFX

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Speaker 1: workers at Marvel, about fifty on set employees, have voted

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Speaker 1: to unionize, joining IATZI, the union that covers some of

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Speaker 1: the crews that work on sets television sets, movie sets,

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Speaker 1: and the workers are asking for an election for union

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Speaker 1: positions to be held as early as August twenty first.

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Speaker 1: So this is big news now, of course there are

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Speaker 1: there are struct structural obstacles VFX, not just by Marvel Disney,

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Speaker 1: but all the other studios are usually farmed out not

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Speaker 1: only to their in house crafts people, but to studios

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Speaker 1: around the globe. This, you know, as one a bid

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Speaker 1: for efficiency and also two to make it harder to unionize.

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Speaker 1: So there's a long fight that remains ahead of these workers.

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Speaker 1: But this is a development that I think many can

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Speaker 1: and should support.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's great news. I am really excited

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Speaker 2: for them. It's going to be hard, but as with

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Speaker 2: so many fights, it starts with one thing that can spread.

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Speaker 2: So them being represented by IATZI and potentially having the

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Speaker 2: election to see if that's possible, could be a great

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Speaker 2: way to start thinking about how a wider unionization or

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Speaker 2: labor organization effort could happen even with these separate places,

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Speaker 2: which is kind of what happened with the Video Game

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Speaker 2: Workers Union. It's something that Comics is still thinking about.

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Speaker 2: So I think this is great. I think that, as

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Speaker 2: Chris Lee said Vulture, on the heels of more than

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Speaker 2: a year's worth of damning disclosures around Marvel Studio, systematic

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Speaker 2: overworking and underpayment of visual effects workers. This is to

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Speaker 2: be expected, and I'm very happy that hot labor summer continues.

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Speaker 2: This is really wild that this came out on the

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Speaker 2: same day that it was announced that the LA City

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Speaker 2: workers would go on strike next Tuesday for a twenty

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Speaker 2: four hours, which is going to be like the first

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Speaker 2: strike since the eighties. So the strikes keep coming and

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Speaker 2: they don't stop coming.

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Speaker 1: To that end, we moved to South Korea where actors

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Speaker 1: in Netflix originals want better pay, reports the La Times,

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Speaker 1: and the company refuses to meet their union unbelievable comes

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Speaker 1: on the heels, of course, of the revelation that the

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Speaker 1: creator of Squid Game, whose story increased the valuation of

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Speaker 1: Netflix by a billion according to some analysts, received in

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Speaker 1: recompense for that residuals a salary but virtually no other

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Speaker 1: ability to share in the massive profits that his story

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Speaker 1: generated for Netflix. And of course, you know, Netflix is

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Speaker 1: often talked about as the streamer that's best positioned for

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Speaker 1: the current labor actions that are taking place. Right They

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Speaker 1: have a lot of reality TV. They have like this

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Speaker 1: vast of programming that comes from international that it's already banked.

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Speaker 1: That's like comes from other places around the world, including

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Speaker 1: a heavy bliance on the on the stories that come

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Speaker 1: out of South Korea, and so this would seem to

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Speaker 1: put pressure on that and a welcome development as well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's absolutely welcome. I think this is great.

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Speaker 2: It's the Korea Broadcasting Actors Union, and I just think

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Speaker 2: this is a great, terrible, very prime example of how

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Speaker 2: Netflix views international programming and how they obviously thought this

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Speaker 2: was a space where they could have a yeah, a

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Speaker 2: resource to be exploited. I mean, the Squid Game thing

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Speaker 2: was so shocking because it was an original idea created

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Speaker 2: by Quanggong Kuk, and yet when he signed the deal

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Speaker 2: to make it, Netflix took all of the IP in

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Speaker 2: a move that is very similar to what we've seen

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Speaker 2: in the comic book industry, but is a lot rarer

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Speaker 2: in standard traditional publishing or Hollywood. But Netflix, obviously, like

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Speaker 2: you so beautifully put it, Jason, saw this as a

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Speaker 2: resource to be exploited in mind, rather than a space

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Speaker 2: to support creators. And the fact that Netflix is not

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Speaker 2: getting back to the National Broadcasting Actors Union shows a

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Speaker 2: lack of respect, in my opinion, for the work that

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Speaker 2: is being done. But I would very much like to

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Speaker 2: see some kind of labor organization happening in a way

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Speaker 2: that could impact the way that Netflix is using this

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Speaker 2: programming not only as a way to break the strike

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Speaker 2: or not be affected by it, which is what they're doing,

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Speaker 2: but also as a way to just let them know, like,

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Speaker 2: this content is made by people. It's not content creators.

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Speaker 2: It's artists, it's right as it's actors, it's directors, it's storytellers,

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Speaker 2: it's production designers, it's set dressers. It's all these people

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Speaker 2: that is always getting left behind in this era of

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Speaker 2: like content and content creators. So I just think any

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Speaker 2: movement like this is very positive and I hope that

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Speaker 2: Netflix makes the correct decision here, but let's be real,

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Speaker 2: in this summer, none of these execs are making the

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Speaker 2: correct decision. So I'm not feeling hopeful that's great.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, like if this is a thing, I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to dwell on this too long. But this

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Speaker 1: is this is a structural issue. It's this is not

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Speaker 1: this is not something that falls at the feet of

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Speaker 1: any of the individual CEOs who run this country, these companies.

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Speaker 1: This is an issue about how the economics of the

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Speaker 1: space work and tech, which Netflix is a tech company

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Speaker 1: essentially has long been hostile to unionization efforts, and you

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Speaker 1: know that will that will only continue, So we watch

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Speaker 1: this with interest. Up next TM and TA Mutant Mayhem,

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Speaker 1: we're stepping out of the airlock and into the beautiful,

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Speaker 1: aromatic and juicy sewers of New York City for Teenage

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Speaker 1: Mutant Ninja Turtles Mutant Mayhem, which opened last weekend and

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Speaker 1: is wonderful, delightful.

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Speaker 2: Ten out of ten lovely good stuff.

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Speaker 1: I gotta say before we get into the movie, who

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Speaker 1: would have fifteen years ago, eighteen years ago, whatever it is,

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Speaker 1: who would have picked Seth Brogan and Evan Goldberg to

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Speaker 1: be like the powerhouses that emerge from Freaks and Geeks.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, and not just that, but also the powerhouses

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Speaker 2: to emerge from Freaks and Geeks to essentially adapt unadaptable comics.

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Speaker 1: And and like multi like all around multi layered threats.

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Speaker 1: Obviously Rogan in front of the camera, behind the camera, writing, producing,

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Speaker 1: Goldberg writing, producing, and et cetera. But it's the track

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Speaker 1: record at this point is really, really amazing, and it

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Speaker 1: continues again with the wonderful Teenage Turtles Meet Mayhem that

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Speaker 1: has their imprint on it with help, scriptwriting, help from

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Speaker 1: Dan Hernandez and Benji Saman and director Jeff Row, but

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Speaker 1: just really really fantastic, absolutely distills the what's kind of

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Speaker 1: like magical about the DG E turnals for a new

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Speaker 1: generation and see, yeah, listen, the animation style the action

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Speaker 1: is so unique. I wouldn't even know how to describe it.

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Speaker 1: How would you describe it?

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Speaker 2: I think it it kind of swerves between like looking

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Speaker 2: like somebody's sketches that you would see in the classroom

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Speaker 2: next to kind of look yeah, and then also a

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Speaker 2: kind of stop motion vibe. I think one of the

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Speaker 2: things that they did that was the coolest is obviously

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Speaker 2: this is a post Spider Verse movie, as we call them,

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Speaker 2: more Aura is influenced by Spider Verse, but I will

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Speaker 2: say I think this is one of the first movies

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Speaker 2: to come out of this wave of post Spider Use

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Speaker 2: movies that it understands where its strengths are, so it

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Speaker 2: doesn't try to ape Spider Verse by doing like twenty

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Speaker 2: different types of animation, which is obviously the part and

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Speaker 2: parcel of what makes those movies so brilliant. Instead, they

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Speaker 2: found one really unique animation style and stuck with it,

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Speaker 2: and it feels so enjoyable and it feels raw, but

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Speaker 2: it's entertaining. There's this very old school comics thing to

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Speaker 2: it where all of the characters apart from April O'Neil,

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Speaker 2: who I love played by the incredible Ioeta Berry, who

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Speaker 2: we just love so much, but like, all of the

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Speaker 2: characters apart from April and the Turtles are grotesque. The

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Speaker 2: human characters are grow test, the mutant characters are grow tesque.

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Speaker 2: That's very old school, that's very silver age superhero comics. Like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: these characters are monsters, they're scary, they're weird. But then

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Speaker 2: I love that at the center you have this kind

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Speaker 2: of pure core group of the obviously the four Turtles,

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Speaker 2: and then you have April, who are just really cool.

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Speaker 2: And I wrote this in my lab Box review, but

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Speaker 2: one of the things that I I really found quite

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Speaker 2: profound about this movie is there's a picture I have

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Speaker 2: of me when I was like three years old, wearing

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Speaker 2: a nappy, holding like a Raphael Flush And I've loved

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Speaker 2: the Turtles for that long. I love them when they

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Speaker 2: were cartoons, I love them when they were playmates toys.

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Speaker 2: I love the black and white comics, which when you

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Speaker 2: discover them when you're old enough feel like a revelation

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Speaker 2: compared to what they became on the cartoons. I followed

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Speaker 2: them throughout my life. I love Pi A Led and

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Speaker 2: Kevin Eastman like those are like icons to me of

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Speaker 2: comic book creation. I love the original Jim Henson Suit

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Speaker 2: movies like I've lived through the Michael Bay era, like

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Speaker 2: I've seen so many stories with them. And to be

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Speaker 2: here as like a thirty five year old and sitting

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Speaker 2: in that theater and able to enjoy the movie and

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Speaker 2: watch the movie and love the movie and feel like

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Speaker 2: they're like my sweet, annoying cousins who I wanna protect.

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Speaker 2: That is like an incredible feeling to grow up with

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Speaker 2: characters and outgrow them still want to spend time with them.

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Speaker 2: And this really does a great job of putting across

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Speaker 2: the teenage aspect of the TMNT X ray vision will

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Speaker 2: be Back.

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Speaker 1: And We're back. Yeah, the teenage aspect of the Turtles

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Speaker 1: is front and center. And you know, Goldberg and Seth

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Speaker 1: Brogen have been pretty outspoken about that being the aspect

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Speaker 1: of these characters that they really want to highlight, that

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Speaker 1: they really wanted to drill down on. I think they

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Speaker 1: did it wonderfully. You know, there's this wonderful moment where

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Speaker 1: the turtles are just coming home after kind of like

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Speaker 1: lingering on the edge of like this outdoor movie showing

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Speaker 1: at Brooklyn Bridge Park and then come home and Dad

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Speaker 1: is kind of like castigating them for like where have

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Speaker 1: you been? And it's this wonderful like so uh, Jackie

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Speaker 1: Chan plays Splinter incredible way, incredible casting, and it creates

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Speaker 1: this layer of like they really resonated, like as the

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Speaker 1: as the child of immigrants of like to have like, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, like the immigrant parent who's like, don't what

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Speaker 1: are you doing, Don't go out, don't do this, like

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Speaker 1: you know you're going to be influencing bad ways. And

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Speaker 1: Splinter's version of that is humans want to kill you,

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Speaker 1: they want to milk you, they want to trap you

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Speaker 1: in a lab somewhere and do experiments on all of

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Speaker 1: which is absolutely fair.

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Speaker 2: I'm true, it turns out and true.

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Speaker 1: But after that, you know, after they absorb this this

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Speaker 1: speech from Splinter, they like go to their rooms and

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Speaker 1: they're just like scrolling their phones and like talking about

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Speaker 1: different things that they see on their phones, roast each

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Speaker 1: other that they would do if they could, and it

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Speaker 1: was just really really wonderful, Like it's same as you.

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Speaker 1: I'm a longtime Turtle fan. I remember one of my

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Speaker 1: classmates to like, did this happen when you were in school?

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Speaker 1: Like kids would bring for absolutely no reason other than

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Speaker 1: to like flex in front of the other kids. Like

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Speaker 1: kids would just like bring comics and toys.

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Speaker 2: Yea to class?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, when like absolutely you just know that if a

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Speaker 1: teacher sees that, like it's going to take away why

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Speaker 1: is that here? But I I remember one of my

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Speaker 1: classmates brought in the black and white teenage Vietnamese Turtles

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Speaker 1: Eastman and Lared book. And now I don't know if

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Speaker 1: it was a first printing or a second printing or

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Speaker 1: what issue. I don't remember what issue it was, but

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Speaker 1: I remember being knocked out by by the art. It

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Speaker 1: must have been the first issue because I remember there

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Speaker 1: being I remember the panel that really got me was

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Speaker 1: like one when you couldn't really tell them apart it

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Speaker 1: must I think.

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Speaker 2: It was no, no, you can't tell them apart. It's black

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Speaker 2: and white, they ware mosques, you can't really tell.

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Speaker 1: I think it was maybe Rath who said this, but

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Speaker 1: like it's a panel they're fighting and one of the

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Speaker 1: and the and the narration panel is like and we bleed,

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Speaker 1: you know, and they have these little like they have

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Speaker 1: these little scratches like all over their shells and all

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Speaker 1: over their skin. And I was like, holy shit, this

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Speaker 1: is amazing. And I went to the com book store

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Speaker 1: I couldn't find it, and then eventually I found it,

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Speaker 1: and then it was definitely weird. So like I'm of

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Speaker 1: that era where when the cartoon really started hitting, I

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Speaker 1: was like, well, this is like so different than the

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Speaker 1: than the black and white version, but it's wonderful. How

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Speaker 1: I think one of the great things about Mayhem is

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Speaker 1: it really combines all of that stuff, like the cool

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Speaker 1: martial arts everything, Yeah, the cool martial arts action of

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Speaker 1: like the Eastman and laired a precolorized run and like

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Speaker 1: the Cowabunga pizza fun of the teenage Bean Nugat is

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Speaker 1: the nineties video game era, and it distills all of

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Speaker 1: that and there's something that is really like truly something

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Speaker 1: of its own. I had a great time.

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Speaker 2: I thought I was amazing, And I think you bring

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Speaker 2: up a great point. Like I wrote a piece of

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Speaker 2: IgM that was kind of explaining about like this, this

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Speaker 2: will have a this will be a spoiler, so like

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Speaker 2: don't listen if you haven't seen it. Well, actually you

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Speaker 2: can listen because it's not actually in the movie. It's

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Speaker 2: just something I know because I've read the comics. But

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Speaker 2: there is a the Maya Rudolph character, Cynthia Utrom. She's

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Speaker 2: almost certainly crang. You can do a we were right

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Speaker 2: for two years when they announced it because the utrom

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Speaker 2: But the Eutroms are an alien race that are in

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00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:50,880
Speaker 2: like the second issue of the Black and White comics, right,

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00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:55,720
Speaker 2: and then all your Mutant Mayhem characters, the actual mutants

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00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:58,920
Speaker 2: are Ray Phile aka Man Ray. You know Genghis from

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Speaker 2: a First Love. Yeah, Oh my gosh, he was so good.

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Speaker 1: It's awesome. I post alone doing a jes.

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Speaker 2: And like, you know, introducing Paul Rudd as Mondo, you know,

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Speaker 2: the Mighty Immune Animals. That was a range of Playmates

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Speaker 2: toys when they were really just selling so many. So

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Speaker 2: it really does combine all of the different aspects that

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Speaker 2: make the tolls great. You have April O'Neil and she's black,

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Speaker 2: which in the original Black and White's comics she was black.

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Speaker 2: So even that people forget going back, they forget this,

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Speaker 2: and you know they and that goes back to the

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Speaker 2: original era of the comics. I feel like they did

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Speaker 2: such a brilliant job making it accessible. You know, my

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Speaker 2: nephew loved it. My ten year old nephew. Now he's

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Speaker 2: going back and he's watching Rise than Ninja Towles, he's

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Speaker 2: watching the old cartoons, He's watching all of it.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: I love that it basically once again created an accessible

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Speaker 2: jumping on point for kids, because this is one of

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Speaker 2: the most consistent kids franchises. Yes, that has kind of

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Speaker 2: always perennially been there, and I think that's why. You know,

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Speaker 2: they were tracking it. They were like, oh, it's gonna

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Speaker 2: make like twenty five million or something, but it ended

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Speaker 2: up being closer. I think, let's find the final numbers.

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Speaker 2: I'm I think it was like it was like forty

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Speaker 2: five or fifty.

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Speaker 1: On a budget of seventy million, which is so we're

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Speaker 1: going to get there, Like, clearly this is going to

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Speaker 1: be a money making movie, and I think we're exactly.

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Speaker 2: We'll build just very delightful and I love to see

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Speaker 2: it and I'm very happy. Yeah, forty three million over

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Speaker 2: five days, and it's going to have long, long legs,

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Speaker 2: Like this is a movie that opened well and it's

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Speaker 2: going to be playing all the way into the fall.

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Speaker 2: It makes me very happy. I love the idea that

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Speaker 2: these kids are going to be able to, you know,

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Speaker 2: find these characters that we love. And I also love

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Speaker 2: this is the first one where you actually have like, well,

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Speaker 2: you know, the original Jim Henson Suit nineties late live

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00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:56,720
Speaker 2: action movie, some of the people who played them were

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00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:59,359
Speaker 2: teenagers who voiced them or were in the suits. But

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00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:03,439
Speaker 2: this is like kids. Miki who plays Donna Tello, he

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00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:05,800
Speaker 2: is a baby. When I see him in the interviews,

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00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,800
Speaker 2: they're like, oh, my sweet child. And you know, Shaman

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00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:11,800
Speaker 2: Brown Junior is my clanjo amazing, Nicholas Cantu the only

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00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:14,280
Speaker 2: Leonardo I respect. I am a Leonardo Heyer. He is

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00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:16,840
Speaker 2: a snitch in this movie, but he learns his ways.

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Speaker 2: And Brandy Noon as Rafael, who is my all time favorite.

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Speaker 2: I'm a Rafael Stan That's my of the four humors

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00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:28,479
Speaker 2: of the Turtles, I am a Rafael And like I

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Speaker 2: just I loved it so much. And you know what

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Speaker 2: else that they understood that I think a lot of

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00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:35,480
Speaker 2: the modern Turtle stuff hasn't understood. And this comes back

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Speaker 2: to what you're saying in the comics. You couldn't tell

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00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:39,320
Speaker 2: them apart, right, because they didn't have the different color

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00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:41,760
Speaker 2: bandanas in the original comics, and then when they did,

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Speaker 2: they had all red bandanas. It was all about personality, yea.

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Speaker 2: And I think in the contemporary stuff, me and Nick

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00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:50,040
Speaker 2: talk about this a lot, like it became about how

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Speaker 2: do they look different, what gadgets do they have? Like

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00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:54,920
Speaker 2: you need to know the weapons. Now, that's all still true,

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Speaker 2: and they actually do that in a really fun way here,

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Speaker 2: But the personalities are so defined, like you couldn't watch

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Speaker 2: every every kid is going to have a favorite.

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Speaker 1: Who was your You mentioned it, but it but expound

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Speaker 1: as to why your turtle was your turtle?

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Speaker 2: Okay, so my title, I think it's one. When I

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00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:16,720
Speaker 2: was a kid, I definitely had that tendency of like

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Speaker 2: thinking like the darker characters were.

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Speaker 1: Like cool, that's very that's very like.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and and Raf was like the tough guy, and

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00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:31,000
Speaker 2: he was really complex and he was kind of sad

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00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:33,520
Speaker 2: and emo, but he you know, I will say, out

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Speaker 2: of all the titles, I feel like his representation in

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00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:39,359
Speaker 2: this movie is slightly streamlined, whereas I feel like the

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Speaker 2: others get a really great kind of new elements. But

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Speaker 2: you know what, it's time, he's growing, he's still he's

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Speaker 2: just a chunky little boy who's angry. But you know what,

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Speaker 2: I think it really was And this is so dumb,

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00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:52,560
Speaker 2: but this is like so defining in my life. I

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00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:56,359
Speaker 2: always remember, like in the I I used to love

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Speaker 2: all kinds of weird old movies, and like I loved

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Speaker 2: like Carry Grant movies when I was a little kid,

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00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,400
Speaker 2: and I love PI movies. And I always remember Raphael

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00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:07,760
Speaker 2: in the movie wearing like the detective jacket and the hat,

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00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:11,120
Speaker 2: and that to me is just one of the coolest visuals.

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00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:13,640
Speaker 2: I literally have a reference to that in the new

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00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:17,560
Speaker 2: graphic novel. I'm writing him the thing RoboCop does it

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00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:21,199
Speaker 2: when it first gets transformed. There's something about that, and

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00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:23,400
Speaker 2: I think that for me really cemented it. But I mean,

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00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:26,320
Speaker 2: then again, I literally have that picture. I'll try and

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00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:27,720
Speaker 2: find a link to put it in the show notes

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00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:29,520
Speaker 2: because it's really funny. I have that picture of me

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Speaker 2: when I was like a baby and I had raft

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Speaker 2: So I don't know, I guess it was just maybe

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00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:37,440
Speaker 2: it was because he was red, you know it well,

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00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:40,080
Speaker 2: But it's always throughout my life that's never changed. In

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00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:43,959
Speaker 2: the new movie. I would say Donnie's probably my favorite character.

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00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:46,200
Speaker 2: I loved him, but I'm still a raft girl. Who's

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00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:46,800
Speaker 2: your title?

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00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:51,080
Speaker 1: Dona Tello was my favorite turtle for various reasons. One,

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00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:55,600
Speaker 1: you know, as you were mentioning what you gravitated to

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00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:00,800
Speaker 1: at that stage of your comics reading life, I definitely

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00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:04,760
Speaker 1: went I was like, what is the thing that is

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00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:08,000
Speaker 1: not popular? And that's what I like? And so like Dontello.

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00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:09,840
Speaker 1: I mean, they make a joke about it in the movie.

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Speaker 1: He just has a stick, you know, And I was

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00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:17,639
Speaker 1: so I was like, that's cool, that's like accept that's accessible.

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00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,840
Speaker 1: Like I can go unscrew the head off the broom

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00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:25,879
Speaker 1: right now and have the weapon that Donatello has. Plus

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00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,840
Speaker 1: he was like the more yeah, and like, so I

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00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:30,639
Speaker 1: can just beat don Tello right now if I just

375
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,840
Speaker 1: like unscrew the broomhead. And then he was he was

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00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,960
Speaker 1: the more like, he was very adept at technology. He

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00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:41,879
Speaker 1: was kind of like the sneakier one and the quieter one. Also,

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00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:44,920
Speaker 1: like everybody else was much louder than him, but when

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00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 1: he did speak, it was like it seemed to have

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00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:49,919
Speaker 1: some weight to it. And then he beat He was

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00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,199
Speaker 1: the one I forget, which issue it is. I think

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00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:55,160
Speaker 1: it's the first issue. He's the guy who beats Tredder

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00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:57,160
Speaker 1: like he beats Shredder at the end of the fight,

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00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,879
Speaker 1: and so I was like, Donatello, that's my guy. I

385
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,119
Speaker 1: liked I played him in the video game. He had

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00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 1: the longer reach, like you could hit the guys from

387
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,280
Speaker 1: across the you know, further across the screen because it's

388
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:12,800
Speaker 1: this longer stick. And so Donald tell that's my guy.

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00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:14,960
Speaker 1: And I thought she was wonderful in the movie.

390
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:16,680
Speaker 2: So good in this also, I will say, I feel

391
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:20,640
Speaker 2: like you that's gotta be the most fulfilling Turtle to love,

392
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 2: because he definitely was like the lesser loved one before.

393
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:25,959
Speaker 2: But I feel like over the years, everyone who has

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00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:29,760
Speaker 2: created a Turtles show or a Turtles movie they loved Donatello.

395
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 2: And then you get to this point where I feel like,

396
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,560
Speaker 2: for me, he was absolutely like the standout of the movie.

397
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:38,720
Speaker 2: That must be a fulfilling journey as to see this

398
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 2: character you love get better back. And as we learned

399
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,400
Speaker 2: he I believe it is. It's Donna Tello who's wearing

400
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 2: the JoJo's Bizarre adventurehoodie when they go into school. So

401
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 2: there is like this is a movie full of pop

402
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,879
Speaker 2: culture references, but I actually found it quite charming and

403
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 2: it didn't overwhelm me. I enjoyed. I enjoyed the kind

404
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 2: of nods and the fact they're talking about endgame, Like sure,

405
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,880
Speaker 2: end games? Who in that universe? Like, I mean.

406
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 1: That got huge laughs in the theater.

407
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was the same.

408
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:12,360
Speaker 1: That particular joke was one that like all the adults

409
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 1: and all their kids could enjoy, and it was so funny.

410
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 2: It's one of those fun things. I think, like the

411
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,440
Speaker 2: best references, Right, they either make you go like, oh,

412
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 2: that's cool, or they open up your mind to, like

413
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,880
Speaker 2: as storytellers, as people who watch this stuff, as people

414
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,680
Speaker 2: who write theories, fans, whatever, they open your mind to, like, okay,

415
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,400
Speaker 2: so if the Avengers exists in this university, what does

416
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 2: that mean to the universe? Like, what does it mean?

417
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 2: And obviously also you get the the moment with the

418
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 2: Ferris Bueller's day off when they're like watching it and

419
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 2: all they want to do is like go high school

420
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,119
Speaker 2: so they can take over a parade. I love it

421
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 2: when you learn that something. I love the implication essentially

422
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 2: that this is our world. Yeah, I think that's really

423
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,440
Speaker 2: powerful and I think it's magical for kids.

424
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:03,360
Speaker 1: Uh teen teenage meeting Ninja Turtles Mt. Mayhem in theaters.

425
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:07,880
Speaker 1: Now up next more turtle stuff with an omnibus about

426
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 1: the teenage mute Ninja Turtles. Welcome to another chapter of

427
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:34,880
Speaker 1: the omnibus where we're talking about the teenage mute Ninja

428
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,719
Speaker 1: Turtles and their origin and their deeper origin today. Popular art,

429
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 1: as we have talked about on this podcast quite often,

430
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:47,160
Speaker 1: is a product of a dialogue between creativity and commerce.

431
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 1: And you know, there are numerous examples of this, but

432
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,919
Speaker 1: I think that when you hear about the history of

433
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 1: the teenager Ninja Turtles, you'll come to realize as I have,

434
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,359
Speaker 1: that the Turtles now and there fourth decade of pizza

435
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 1: stained martial arts action existence are perhaps one of the

436
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:12,159
Speaker 1: most unique products of this dialogue between commerce and creativity.

437
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 1: Created in nineteen eighty three by comics fans Kevin Eastman

438
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 1: and Peter Laird, the Turtles and the Best Tradition of

439
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 1: fan created art were a barely veiled ode to some

440
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,640
Speaker 1: of the most popular comics tropes of their day. You've

441
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,639
Speaker 1: heard Rosie talk about this lots of times. From the

442
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,360
Speaker 1: X Men came the word mutants. Mutants were big, and therefore,

443
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,679
Speaker 1: let's do something with mutants. Eastman and Laird taught you

444
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 1: know what else was big. Teenagers were big at this time.

445
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 1: The Teen Titans solo title had launched in nineteen eighty

446
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 1: and The New Mutants, the offshoot of the X Men team.

447
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 1: The teen team of young Mutants over at the Xavier's

448
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,640
Speaker 1: Academy just going into the field on their own, had

449
00:26:55,720 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 1: launched contemporaneously, with Eastman and Laird starting to create these characters,

450
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 1: Frank Miller's pioneering run on Daredevil was mined extensively. The

451
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:09,119
Speaker 1: Ninja villains The Hand became the Turtles antagonist The Foot.

452
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 1: Miller and artist Claus Jensen's gritty, blood drench martial arts

453
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 1: tone was brought over basically intact in that early black

454
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:21,440
Speaker 1: and white run, and then, you know, for the kind

455
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 1: of highbrow stuff, they turned to the Italian Renaissance with

456
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 1: the artist Leonardo Donotelo Rafaela Micalandrew, who gave our heroes

457
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 1: their name. In nineteen eighty four, using a family loan

458
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: and some cash from a tax return, He's been and

459
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:38,199
Speaker 1: Laird printed three thousand copies of Teenage mun Ninja Turtles

460
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 1: number one under their own Mirage Comics banner, founded in

461
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 1: their living room, and with a you know, a turtle

462
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:48,919
Speaker 1: shell and a prayer, they bought an ad in the

463
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 1: Comics Buyer's Guy. Then really the bible of how to

464
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,479
Speaker 1: get comics and how to see what comics were out

465
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: there in the marketplace. And that's how Eastman and Laird

466
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 1: entered the then kind of nascent direct market of comics publishing,

467
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:13,159
Speaker 1: by which local comic shops would kind of like cut

468
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:17,959
Speaker 1: out the middle distributors to buy direct from the publishers.

469
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 1: In this case Mirage and Eastman and Laird. Teenager Ninja

470
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:25,919
Speaker 1: Turtles number one sold out, all three thousand issues gone.

471
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 1: A six thousand issue reprint followed it sold out as well.

472
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 1: From this, Eastman and Laird pocket at a tidy two

473
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 1: hundred dollars profit, not bad for you early eighties money. So,

474
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 1: realizing that their little lark of a small business project

475
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 1: was resonating, perhaps indicating a deeper vein of interest in

476
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,719
Speaker 1: these characters, Eastman and Laird went back to the literal

477
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 1: drawing board and about a year later, Teenage Mutant Ninja

478
00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 1: Turtles Number two went to print. Now this by the time,

479
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 1: the characters were a grassroots sensation, and of course retailers

480
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 1: seeing that thought, well, listen, you can't just send us

481
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 1: number two when number one is sold out. You also

482
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 1: have to reprint number one, right, And so they did

483
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 1: that and thus began a new run of Teenage Mit

484
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 1: Ninja Turtles, and all the issues sold regularly into the

485
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 1: five and occasionally six figures, which are just incredibly huge

486
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 1: numbers for an indie, Like huge numbers for an indie,

487
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 1: like if you're.

488
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 2: Talking six year, if it happens now.

489
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 1: A big deal of it, absolutely a huge deal of

490
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 1: it happened now. And some of their issues like we're

491
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 1: flirting with numbers that like you would get it the

492
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: big two, like at some of their medium range books,

493
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 1: like this was huge, huge stuff. And seeing this, in

494
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty six, Playmates Toys came calling, a subsidiary of

495
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: Hong Kong based Playmates Holdings. The company had a plan

496
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 1: to turn the Turtles into a line of merch appealing

497
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 1: to kids. So their plan first was to see the

498
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 1: marketplace with an animated television show that would run in

499
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 1: various markets, you know, kind of a limited run television

500
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 1: show that would kind of like build up the hunger

501
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 1: amongst their targeted fan base for all things teenage muant

502
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 1: Ninja Turtles. But of course, before they did that, you know,

503
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 1: some of the stuff, some of the things in the

504
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 1: black and white original run needed to change from day one,

505
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 1: Eastman said in an interview with The Comics Journal from

506
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety eight, the first meetings at Playmates, they wanted changes.

507
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 1: The early issues had violence, but not graphic violence. He continues,

508
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 1: Playmates said, our specific audience is four to eight year olds,

509
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 1: so you can do the math on that, right. A lot

510
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 1: of stuff needed to change, a lot of the violence

511
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 1: needed to be toned down. Some of the language, which

512
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 1: was never really that explicit in the original run, but

513
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 1: like did kind of, like I guess, kind of dip

514
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 1: a toe into explicit language. Some of that needed to

515
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 1: be dialed down. And of course the Turtles had by

516
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 1: this time already transitioned to color, as Rosie mentioned, all

517
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 1: red bandanas. But as we start to enter the animated space,

518
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 1: certainly things are going to need to change more significantly.

519
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 1: And here is where the Playmates marketing team really made

520
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 1: their imprint and really let their influence be felt. And

521
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 1: this is where that conversation between art and commerce really

522
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 1: becomes a very even sided conversation. So the Playmates marketing

523
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 1: team are the reason that we have differently colored masks

524
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 1: for the Turtles, for instance, in order to tell them apart.

525
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 1: They are the horse of any number of catchphrases iconic

526
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 1: catchphrases from the teenage m Ninja Turtles animated series, including

527
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 1: Turtle Power and of course the legendary Cowabunga. Now the

528
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 1: latter Cowabungo was the focus of a five million dollar

529
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 1: lawsuit by Buffalo Bob Smith, the host of the Howdy

530
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 1: Do Do Show, which ran from nineteen forty seven to

531
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty. Buffalo Bob claimed that, hey, the Turtles stole Cowabungo,

532
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 1: which we used on the Howdy Doty program back in

533
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 1: the back in the forties. Sure, and how dare you?

534
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 2: Sir?

535
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 1: At Eastman and Lair decided that, you know what, this

536
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 1: is not worth the trouble, and they eventually settled for

537
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars on the five million. Oh also, pizza

538
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 1: came from Playmates. Can you imagine like this, what more

539
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,719
Speaker 1: iconic thing could come out? Can you associate with the

540
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 1: Turtles than pizza? And that was part of the contributions

541
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 1: from the playmates execs.

542
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was thinking a lot about this when I

543
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 2: was writing my Cynthia Eutron piece at IGN because David Wise,

544
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 2: who has spoken a lot about how involved he was

545
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 2: with this, he actually created Krang, who I would say

546
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 2: is probably the most well mystery, the most well known

547
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 2: Ninja Turtles villain probably is Krang. And that didn't come

548
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 2: he didn't come from the comics. He was influenced by

549
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 2: the Eutromsey's kind of brain looking aliens. But even that,

550
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 2: when I was like kind of revisiting it, it is

551
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 2: such a unique space in this cultural idea of like commerce.

552
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 2: And also this is why Turtles became so popular. It

553
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 2: was already a comic shop, but like, this is how

554
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 2: kids found out about it, this is how it became

555
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 2: a global phenomenon. And this is how many many years

556
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 2: later Peter Laird would sell the Ninja Turtles to Nickelodeon

557
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 2: familiar that not enough money, not enough money, and he

558
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 2: didn't not get enough money.

559
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:01,479
Speaker 1: Okay, So the overall soft of the Turtles aesthetic and

560
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 1: various story elements was a you know, as you can

561
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 1: see from the fact that we're talking about the Turtles

562
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 1: and the Year of Our Lord twenty twenty three extremely lucrative,

563
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 1: resulted in numerous television programs, various spinoffs of those programs,

564
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:19,359
Speaker 1: several waves of toy crazes, multiple video games. Of course,

565
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 1: the movies, various comics runs across three or four different

566
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 1: comics companies. But the changes didn't necessarily go down smoothly

567
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:37,279
Speaker 1: with the creative team. Kevin Eastman said in nineteen ninety

568
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,280
Speaker 1: eight with the Comics Journal quote, it probably affected Pete

569
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 1: more than it did me. He was really upset about it,

570
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 1: and even today he's very much of a purist as

571
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 1: far as the Turtles go. But it was something we

572
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 1: both agreed to. We'd have long, long talks and ultimately

573
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 1: say we can live with this. You know, all this

574
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 1: stuff was done in nineteen eighty six, in the early

575
00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 1: part of nineteen eighty seven, while developing the toys and

576
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 1: the cartoons, even and through that whole period, we never

577
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 1: really believed that it was going to happen. And of

578
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:06,839
Speaker 1: course it did happen, and they became very, very rich,

579
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:13,800
Speaker 1: and here we are now. Rosie mentioned it in two thousand.

580
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:18,399
Speaker 1: Eastman sold his steak in the Turtles to laird, who

581
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,439
Speaker 1: you know, in Eastman's telling was kind of the more

582
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:27,880
Speaker 1: passionate and originalist of the purest. Yes. Now, the laird

583
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 1: then turned around and sold the rights to Viacom, and

584
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:34,360
Speaker 1: of course, you know, you can follow the kind of

585
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:38,879
Speaker 1: corporate restructuring and machinations that follow here. But through Viacom,

586
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:44,360
Speaker 1: the property eventually landed at Nickelodeon, which is how Teenage

587
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 1: mun Ninja Turtles Mute Mayhem comes to us today.

588
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, and and Pa Led sold it in two thousand

589
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:57,240
Speaker 2: and nine for sixty million dollars. Now I understand that

590
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 2: a normal person, that is a lot of money. That's

591
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,320
Speaker 2: a life changing amount of money. But I am saying,

592
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 2: I'm talking if you're selling Star Wars or Marvel for

593
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:10,319
Speaker 2: like four billion. Yeah, right now, it's not it's not

594
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 2: that level. I'm talking. I'm saying five hundred mil. I'm saying,

595
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 2: I think you kill minimum the amount of money that

596
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 2: Nickelodeon has made off these off the live action movies

597
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,799
Speaker 2: that they've done since then, Off this movie, like it

598
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 2: was not enough. But I love I love that Peter

599
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:27,799
Speaker 2: did it in a pure way. And now you know,

600
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 2: Kevin is doing the last row, in which was a

601
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 2: huge success for IDW and that was based on an

602
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 2: idea him and Peter had. There was a great documentary

603
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 2: made about the Ninja Turtles. I believe it's called Turtle Power,

604
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 2: The Definitive History of the Teenage Man and Ninja Tals.

605
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:44,240
Speaker 2: It's now on Paramount.

606
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 1: Plat Turtle Power, and that has a really great art

607
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,320
Speaker 1: about their journey as friends, as collaborators.

608
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 2: The way they broke people off at Mirage Comics in

609
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 2: the eighties and nineties are the creators like Stan Sakai.

610
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:01,400
Speaker 2: They would bring the characters that they like Saga your Jimbo,

611
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 2: and they would put them into toy production so their

612
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 2: friends could make money. And there's a really great arc

613
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 2: about Peter and Kevin, and they even have a kind

614
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 2: of reunion between the two of them that kind of

615
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:14,400
Speaker 2: led on to where we are now. So yeah, also, Jason,

616
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 2: I want to hear about that the reasons that you

617
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 2: think they resonated, because you have some great thoughts here

618
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,799
Speaker 2: about like anthromorphic kind of storytelling.

619
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,800
Speaker 1: Question isn't it right? Like why was it? Why the turtles?

620
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:30,920
Speaker 1: What what happened? And I'll get to that, but I

621
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 1: think one of the things that's interesting to me about

622
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:37,359
Speaker 1: the turtles on an intellectual level is how they are

623
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:42,840
Speaker 1: part of this kind of fundamental human by human, I

624
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:50,240
Speaker 1: mean like Homo sapien, like us as a species, storytelling

625
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 1: kind of storytelling adaptation that we have, and how they

626
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 1: are part of this tradition and of anthropomorphism in human creativity. Anthropomorphism,

627
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 1: which is the technique of kind of combining animals or

628
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 1: objects with human characteristics, is of course a staple of

629
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:18,799
Speaker 1: popular culture, you know, like point at any Disney movie, right,

630
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 1: And in particular this is a feature of content that

631
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:28,919
Speaker 1: is aimed at kids throughout history, like literally going back

632
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:34,360
Speaker 1: into the far reaches of prehistory, even the low inments

633
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:38,319
Speaker 1: figuring the so called lion Men of Holsteinstadl is an

634
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,279
Speaker 1: ivory sculpture of a person with a lion's head, and

635
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 1: it's the earliest example of anthropomorphism and is dated anywhere

636
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:50,839
Speaker 1: from thirty five thousand to forty one thousand years old.

637
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 1: And when you really think about, like what an incredible

638
00:38:56,120 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 1: example of like cognitive flexibility. This is we see an animal,

639
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 1: we imagine ourselves as that animal in order to understand

640
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 1: what it's doing. This is really something that is unique

641
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 1: to people archaeologist Stephen Mithin, in a really wonderfully caddy

642
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:19,400
Speaker 1: response to critics in a December nineteen ninety six issue

643
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 1: of the Journal of Royal Anthropological Institute, noted that quote

644
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 1: anthropomorphic thinking does appear to be an effective means for

645
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 1: predicting animal behavior. In other words, his idea was that,

646
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:33,239
Speaker 1: you know, Stone Age hunters, in order to figure out

647
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:38,439
Speaker 1: the migrations of say, herds of Ibex or something like that,

648
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:41,319
Speaker 1: would wonder if I was an Ibex, what would I do?

649
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:43,839
Speaker 1: What would I do? Where would I go? Where would

650
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 1: I sleep? And through this process eventually found success in

651
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 1: hunting Ibex. In that same journal, myth And theorized the

652
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:59,280
Speaker 1: reason for children's interest in anthwerpomorphisms throughout history is perhaps

653
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:04,360
Speaker 1: because quote from birth, they are surrounded by material artifacts

654
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,359
Speaker 1: that are intentionally designed to cause cognitive fluity. We don't

655
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,399
Speaker 1: we kind of like overlook this about the way we

656
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 1: were raised as kids and the way we interact with kids.

657
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 1: About how confusing when you really think about it. You know,

658
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 1: you give a kid a doll that is a tiger, right,

659
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:22,800
Speaker 1: that is the picture of a tiger, or the picture

660
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:25,360
Speaker 1: of a teenage ninja turtle right, and it's not a turtle,

661
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 1: but you expect them to understand that it is not

662
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:33,840
Speaker 1: what it is, but it's something else. Right, This is

663
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 1: like we are intentionally confusing kids so that their minds

664
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 1: become more fluid. And I think, what this what this

665
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 1: all brings me to is I think for me, the

666
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 1: reason that the that the turtles resonate and what I

667
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:52,160
Speaker 1: think was so wonderful for me about this movie was

668
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:59,319
Speaker 1: the way the turtles uh kind of activate empathy, particularly

669
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:05,279
Speaker 1: for kids. Right, Like, you're a kid, You're concerned. It's

670
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 1: hard now as an adult to kind of like reach

671
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:11,279
Speaker 1: back and get into contact with what a day to

672
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:15,720
Speaker 1: day like wilderness, going to school was as a kid,

673
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 1: and it's like everything feels like life or death, and

674
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 1: it's like do people like me? And if they don't

675
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:22,400
Speaker 1: like me or make fun of me, everything's going to

676
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 1: fall apart, and like you're living minutes to minute and

677
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 1: day to day. And one of the cool things about

678
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 1: the Turtles is it empowers kids empathy. Right, you see

679
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:38,400
Speaker 1: yourself as these special martial arts turtles who are also outcasts,

680
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 1: and what do they want? They just want to be

681
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:41,840
Speaker 1: like every other kid, every other normal kid. But of

682
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 1: course they can't be because they're turtles, but because they

683
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:50,000
Speaker 1: are anthropomorphic turtles, it allows kids to interact with their

684
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 1: empathy in a way that protects them from kind of

685
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:57,839
Speaker 1: like the more occasionally troubling aspects of empathy, which is

686
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 1: the questions that arise from uh, you know uh your

687
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 1: own relationship with the with your other classmates, or let's say,

688
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:18,360
Speaker 1: you know bullying. Uh, where does one stand in a

689
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 1: power dynamic between a bully and and the and the

690
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:23,879
Speaker 1: target of the bully? How or how am I being

691
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:26,240
Speaker 1: a bully to someone else? All of these kind of questions,

692
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:30,920
Speaker 1: how do how does? How does empathy work if someone

693
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 1: looks different than me or believes something different than me? Right?

694
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 1: All of these questions are really complex and can can

695
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:39,759
Speaker 1: get really naughty and make you question a lot of

696
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 1: things about the way you were brought up in your experiences.

697
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 1: But when you have answeromorphic turtles, all of a sudden,

698
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 1: all of that stuff becomes much easier to play with

699
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 1: and much more relatable and much easier to grab a

700
00:42:55,520 --> 00:43:00,319
Speaker 1: hold of. Right, the outsider noess, the need to bel long,

701
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 1: the desire to be special but also to be like

702
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 1: everybody else. All that the turtles give to us by

703
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 1: the fact that they are turtles with the personalities of people. Yeah,

704
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:16,960
Speaker 1: what do you think do you think the turtles resonate?

705
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:20,120
Speaker 2: I love that so much. I mean, it's hard to top,

706
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:22,399
Speaker 2: but I would just say I think you're absolutely right.

707
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 2: I also think they're essentially like a gateway to other

708
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 2: analogous storytelling. So like when you're a kid, the turtle

709
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 2: aspect of it all makes it less terrifying to consider

710
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:38,279
Speaker 2: these ideas of empathy. They make it less obviously analogous,

711
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:41,520
Speaker 2: less obviously about you and your experiences, and they also

712
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 2: give you a hero wish fulfillment. Yeah. I might be

713
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:47,279
Speaker 2: an outcast, but I can do something good. And what

714
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:49,880
Speaker 2: I love is then you know, you go from reading

715
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 2: the Turtles or watching the Turtles on TV, and then

716
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 2: you see the X Men, and that becomes more obviously

717
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 2: about the human struggles, but you still have that same

718
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:02,239
Speaker 2: analogous storytelling that comes from from science fiction traditions, that

719
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 2: comes from the idea of using stories for the power

720
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:07,439
Speaker 2: that they can impart. So I mean, I cannot top

721
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:09,759
Speaker 2: what you said because I absolutely love that theory and

722
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:11,440
Speaker 2: I think you're so right. But I think one of

723
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:14,440
Speaker 2: the coolest things and the reason that they've resonated for

724
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:18,239
Speaker 2: so long is these are almost a starter set of

725
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:20,839
Speaker 2: characters and a starter set of tropes and a starter

726
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 2: set of stories that will inevitably lead to other art

727
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:29,759
Speaker 2: forms and other comic book storytelling. And I think that's

728
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 2: really cool. And I think the fact that both of

729
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:33,359
Speaker 2: us watched it when we were kids in here now

730
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 2: talking about this stuff every week is great proof of that.

731
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:38,360
Speaker 2: Like two people from two different sides of the world,

732
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 2: and the Turtles was still one of those first things

733
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:45,200
Speaker 2: that got us into this space where we found these

734
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 2: stories about characters that we wanted to know more about,

735
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 2: that we wanted to care about, and that taught us

736
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 2: lessons as we went into our life. I think it's lovely.

737
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:59,719
Speaker 1: Turtle power up next nerd Out.

738
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:06,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, in today's nerd Out, where you tell us what

739
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 2: you love and why e theory you're excited to share

740
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 2: or a quick question we can answer, Chris asks a

741
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:13,839
Speaker 2: fly on the war query. Now, Chris, I love this

742
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:17,240
Speaker 2: because you are big thinking here. This is almost existential

743
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:20,759
Speaker 2: and I adore this. Hi, Rosie and Jason, I love

744
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:22,719
Speaker 2: the podcast, even though I know little about the many

745
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:24,920
Speaker 2: deep dives that you two take. But that's precisely why

746
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:27,960
Speaker 2: I love listening. I've always found so much enjoyment being

747
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 2: a fly on the wall listening to two experts discuss something,

748
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:33,839
Speaker 2: the more specific the bell, Like I have two friends

749
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:36,800
Speaker 2: who build elevators for a living. Even though the nuances

750
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:38,759
Speaker 2: of their discussions are well over my head, I find

751
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 2: it fascinating. That's how I often feel when listening to

752
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:43,719
Speaker 2: certain parts of X ray vision. So my question for

753
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:47,800
Speaker 2: the two of you, what specific topic would you enjoy

754
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:51,399
Speaker 2: just silently listening to as a fly on the wall.

755
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 2: This is such an epic question.

756
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 1: I you know, you go first because I have I'll

757
00:45:57,239 --> 00:46:00,440
Speaker 1: just go through my YouTube history and all like what

758
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:04,240
Speaker 1: I use it for. But what's what would a topic

759
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:04,799
Speaker 1: be for you?

760
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:07,840
Speaker 2: For me as a fly on the wall, It's very

761
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 2: hard to imagine it being something outside of the sphere

762
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 2: of what I love, because, for example, things that I

763
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 2: listen to and love to watch that are not in

764
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:19,240
Speaker 2: my sphere of knowledge. I watch a lot of NHK,

765
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 2: which is like the national Japanese broadcast channel, and they

766
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:26,240
Speaker 2: have incredible episodes of a show called Trails to Oishi

767
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:29,480
Speaker 2: where it's basically just like, how do you pickle a

768
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:32,439
Speaker 2: radish Like I love stuff like that, Like I want

769
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:35,760
Speaker 2: to know the exact way to ferment the perfect piece

770
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:38,120
Speaker 2: of soybean, Like I do love that kind of stuff.

771
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 2: But if I was to be a fly on the wall,

772
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:45,440
Speaker 2: I would be like flying back into comics history. I

773
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 2: just want to be a fly on the wall, Like

774
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:52,080
Speaker 2: listening to Jack Kirby coming into the Marvel office when

775
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 2: he finds like Stanley crying because they're going to shut

776
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:56,279
Speaker 2: down the office and he's like, don't worry, kid, I

777
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 2: got this, Or like I want to be in the

778
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:03,319
Speaker 2: room where Todd and Jimley and Rob Leifeld and all

779
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:05,319
Speaker 2: the crew are like talking about founding Image, Like I

780
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 2: think for me it would be getting to hear and

781
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 2: experience like these unbelievable historical moments that you sort of

782
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:16,239
Speaker 2: can't really even conceive because in the moment, nobody knew

783
00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 2: they would be important. That to me would if I

784
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:20,759
Speaker 2: was truly a fly on the wall, those would be

785
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:23,360
Speaker 2: the things I'd want to revisit, some of those incredible

786
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:26,880
Speaker 2: conversations and historical moments that no one kind of knew

787
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:28,399
Speaker 2: would become that at the time.

788
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:33,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, for me, it's always people in some sort of

789
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:39,880
Speaker 1: creative sphere talking about how the nuts and bolts of

790
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:42,760
Speaker 1: how they do the stuff that they do. For instance,

791
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 1: now I'm going through my YouTube history. I recently went

792
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 1: through a late night I read I do a lot

793
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:55,719
Speaker 1: of writing at night, a late night like ABBA phase. Well, yeah,

794
00:47:56,360 --> 00:48:00,319
Speaker 1: I love I think they're I think that they're used

795
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:03,719
Speaker 1: to clearly the greatest music group to come out of Eurovision.

796
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:09,719
Speaker 1: Uh and so like I've I just threw on the

797
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:12,799
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two ABBA documentary and just like had that

798
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:16,000
Speaker 1: going in the background. It's like very interesting to me

799
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 1: to listen to these creative people, to couples, you know,

800
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 1: two married couples who got into music because they were

801
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:26,720
Speaker 1: just they would just like hang out and sing together,

802
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:32,440
Speaker 1: talk about how they created really some of the most

803
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:36,919
Speaker 1: like perfect earworm pop songs. It's so weird that call

804
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:41,520
Speaker 1: on Like when when when I hear the term like

805
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:44,839
Speaker 1: white culture, I think ABBA in the best way, like

806
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:49,840
Speaker 1: it's pop music all yeah, like pop music. Water is

807
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:52,879
Speaker 1: a great example that calls on like this, like deep

808
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:57,120
Speaker 1: like European musical tradition with the big like a classical

809
00:48:57,120 --> 00:49:01,200
Speaker 1: almost Shastakovich sounding like piano chor and the like wonderful,

810
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:04,480
Speaker 1: like almost folky melodies, like it's great stuff. I love

811
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:07,520
Speaker 1: doing that, or like another thing that I had here

812
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:12,439
Speaker 1: is just a conversation with David Milch, the TV writer

813
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 1: who created Deadwood and wrote for Hill Street Blues and

814
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:21,440
Speaker 1: created NYPD Blue. Just him talking about, you know, his

815
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 1: creative process. Anybody talking about like their their creative process. Yeah,

816
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:32,759
Speaker 1: with another person who is like steeped in the particular

817
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:36,399
Speaker 1: history of whatever space that that creative person applies their

818
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:39,360
Speaker 1: trade in is. I'll listen to that. I'll listen to

819
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 1: that conversation ten times out of ten. It doesn't even

820
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 1: have to be anything that I particularly know how to do.

821
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:47,000
Speaker 1: It could be like woodworking or something, and I just

822
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 1: find that, oh yeah, I really enjoy it.

823
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:51,880
Speaker 2: But like slow, like woodworking trains. I listened to a

824
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:52,920
Speaker 2: lot of stuff like that. But you know, I have

825
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:55,040
Speaker 2: to share, Okay, so I think you'll write. I think

826
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 2: that is the key. And I was lucky enough many

827
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:01,279
Speaker 2: years ago now. One of the set visits that I

828
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 2: did when that was still a thing pre COVID, I

829
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:06,960
Speaker 2: visited the set of the first series of What We

830
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:09,759
Speaker 2: Do in the Shadows and it was in Toronto, and

831
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:11,400
Speaker 2: it was freezing cold, and we got to go to

832
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 2: the X Mansion where they were filming a big thing.

833
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:16,799
Speaker 2: But that was one of the most mind blowing, like

834
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:19,880
Speaker 2: fly on the Wall experiences, because you're there as press

835
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:23,040
Speaker 2: and that was a very lax set, so I just

836
00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:25,799
Speaker 2: got to spend I have so many unbelievable memories of

837
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:29,360
Speaker 2: just like a guy who was creating like a non

838
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:33,200
Speaker 2: toxic gel for setting himself on fire, and he just

839
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 2: talked to him about it for like thirty minutes and

840
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:37,319
Speaker 2: kept just setting himself on fire, and he was like

841
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:39,320
Speaker 2: a viking. And it was also twelve women on the

842
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:41,800
Speaker 2: set visit, which you never get, which was incredible. The

843
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:44,279
Speaker 2: guy who was doing all the wirework stunts, he just

844
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:46,960
Speaker 2: came onto the coach where we were chilling outside and

845
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:51,560
Speaker 2: gave like a whole speech on all these different ways

846
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:53,520
Speaker 2: that they were using wireworks. We had the guy who

847
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:55,239
Speaker 2: was making the fake vomit. It was one of the

848
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:57,480
Speaker 2: set visits that I've been on that had the most

849
00:50:57,520 --> 00:51:01,200
Speaker 2: amount of specific knowledge based the dresser, the person whose

850
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:03,320
Speaker 2: job it was to go to like the charity shops

851
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:06,080
Speaker 2: and buy old vintage stuff that would look like it

852
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:09,799
Speaker 2: fit into a vampire's house in New Jersey. That was

853
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:12,360
Speaker 2: a really mind blowing time because it was like getting

854
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:14,920
Speaker 2: to be a fly on the wall and hear the

855
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:16,759
Speaker 2: ins and outs of how things got made. And it

856
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:19,480
Speaker 2: also this was probably six years ago now or something,

857
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:22,239
Speaker 2: but it kind of blew my mind and opened my

858
00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:26,080
Speaker 2: mind to just how many different jobs there are in

859
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:29,399
Speaker 2: filmmaking and how much I wished as a kid i'd

860
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:33,240
Speaker 2: have known that your job could be like dressing the set,

861
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:35,839
Speaker 2: or your job could be like somebody you're just some

862
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:39,319
Speaker 2: cool guy in overalls and you're like hammering together like

863
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:41,719
Speaker 2: a shelf that goes on the set. Like that's like

864
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:44,240
Speaker 2: a dream, you don't And then that was very profound

865
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:46,239
Speaker 2: to me. And that was definitely the time that I've

866
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:49,439
Speaker 2: felt most like, I know that that guy's just going

867
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:52,120
Speaker 2: around setting himself on fire talking about that gel to

868
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:55,480
Speaker 2: anyone who's on the set because he's a genius and like.

869
00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:57,680
Speaker 2: So that was definitely the most fly on the wall experience,

870
00:51:57,719 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 2: and honestly, it was amazing. I think about that all

871
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:01,480
Speaker 2: the time, So I think I would like to be

872
00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:04,160
Speaker 2: a fly on the wall more. Actually, Chris, that was

873
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:06,759
Speaker 2: such a good question, wonderful question. I love it. If

874
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:09,279
Speaker 2: you have theories, passions or quick questions you want to share,

875
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:12,560
Speaker 2: hit us up at extra at Crooked dot com. Instructions

876
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:13,480
Speaker 2: are in the show notes.

877
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:17,120
Speaker 1: That's it for us, Rosie and he plugs.

878
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:20,960
Speaker 2: I am going to plug a piece of mine that

879
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:25,240
Speaker 2: went up at IgM. Piece though that's great, I wrote

880
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:28,239
Speaker 2: a piece. I will say it this way. I have

881
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:30,640
Speaker 2: been working on a piece of IgM for four years

882
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:35,600
Speaker 2: about the boom and bust of the comic book industry,

883
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:41,239
Speaker 2: and I was delightfully surprised this weekend when my brilliant editor,

884
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:43,040
Speaker 2: Scott Klaura reached out and was like, Hey, I think

885
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:45,759
Speaker 2: it's time, like, let's run it. You know, I'm really

886
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:48,680
Speaker 2: happy it went up. It's six thousand words. It has

887
00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:54,319
Speaker 2: interviews with Tom McFarland, Louise Simonson, Jim Lee on the

888
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:57,360
Speaker 2: record talking about Image, Bob Layton, who really was an

889
00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:01,279
Speaker 2: unbelievable source and gave some unbelievable numbers about Valiant. Is

890
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:03,480
Speaker 2: probably the piece I'm proudest of. I want to turn

891
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:05,520
Speaker 2: it into a book or a TV show or something

892
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:07,759
Speaker 2: because there's just such a great story to be told there.

893
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:10,880
Speaker 2: But for now you can read it on IGN, and

894
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:13,120
Speaker 2: I'm super proud of it, Kevin van Hook from Valiant

895
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:17,200
Speaker 2: also giving some great insight and because it's ended up

896
00:53:17,239 --> 00:53:19,560
Speaker 2: coming out this year. There's also a great little chat

897
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:21,920
Speaker 2: with Ryan Skinner from Polp Fiction, which is my local

898
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:25,240
Speaker 2: comic shop in Long Beach about how there was actually

899
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 2: like a mini boom and bust during COVID, which we knew,

900
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:31,760
Speaker 2: you know, as collectors, kind of there was this speculation boom,

901
00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:34,319
Speaker 2: but it hasn't quite turned into a bust, but it's deflating.

902
00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:36,640
Speaker 2: So just if you like the ins and outs, if

903
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:39,120
Speaker 2: you like business, if you like numbers, if you like

904
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:42,640
Speaker 2: Louise Simonson saying that they the only reason they did

905
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:44,839
Speaker 2: Death of Superman was because they were pissed off at

906
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:47,400
Speaker 2: DC and they just decided to kill him, you're gonna

907
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:49,400
Speaker 2: love it because that's exactly what happened.

908
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:55,759
Speaker 1: Catch the next episode Friday, August eleventh for an all

909
00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:58,200
Speaker 1: Superman and Lois Lane themed episode.

910
00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:01,560
Speaker 2: Woo perfect timing, and you can watch full episodes of

911
00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:04,279
Speaker 2: the podcast on YouTube. Also check out Twitter and x

912
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:07,160
Speaker 2: mbi pod and on Discord hang Out with a ton

913
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:07,920
Speaker 2: of Cool fans.

914
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:10,960
Speaker 1: Five stars ratings, five star reviews we got out of them.

915
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:12,600
Speaker 1: You gotta give him those here's one from Jay Love

916
00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:15,880
Speaker 1: ninety two Open Apple for the first time for this review.

917
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:17,879
Speaker 1: This podcast is like going back in time to watch

918
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:21,400
Speaker 1: anime and play video games with friends after school. Perfect.

919
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:26,120
Speaker 1: That's it. That's all we're going for. We're going for

920
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:30,000
Speaker 1: g Thank you, Jay Love ninety two. Xtra Vision is

921
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:32,080
Speaker 1: a Crooked Media production. The show is produced by Chris

922
00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:35,400
Speaker 1: Lord and Saul Rumin and executive produced by me Jason Concepcio,

923
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:38,000
Speaker 1: and our editing and sound design is by Facilis Fotopoulos.

924
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:42,480
Speaker 1: Video production by Delon Villanueva and Rachel Gayeski. Social media

925
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 1: by Awa o'clatti and Caroline Duncan. Thank you to Brian

926
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:53,879
Speaker 1: Basquez for a few See you next time. Whether you're

927
00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:56,879
Speaker 1: a diehard comics fan or just getting into them, you're

928
00:54:56,920 --> 00:54:59,560
Speaker 1: gonna love Comic Sans. Comic Sans is a podcast about

929
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:04,360
Speaker 1: comic for those who are sands knowledge. Join Yon, a

930
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:07,520
Speaker 1: comic reader, writer and lover, and Nat, who knows absolutely

931
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:11,480
Speaker 1: nothing about comics. Each episode, Yan introduces Nat to one

932
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:14,600
Speaker 1: of their favorite comics like The sand Man, Saga and

933
00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:17,719
Speaker 1: Laura Olympus and shares what makes that comic special, and

934
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:21,440
Speaker 1: then Nat gives his thoughts on the comic, which only

935
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:24,120
Speaker 1: sometimes causes Deando freak out, but it's worth it every time.

936
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:28,800
Speaker 1: It's a podcast that comic lovers, haters, and undecided rs

937
00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:32,160
Speaker 1: alike can enjoy, and you can binge the first season,

938
00:55:32,239 --> 00:55:35,240
Speaker 1: including bonus episodes on Across the Spider Verse and Comic

939
00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:38,400
Speaker 1: on Right Now. Find Comic Sans on Apple, Podcasts, Spotify,

940
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:40,000
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.