1 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: Campsite Media. 2 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:12,399 Speaker 2: So Paul Fisher lands in New York City and checks 3 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:15,159 Speaker 2: into what will be his home away from home, the 4 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 2: Wellington Hotel, all on Larry's dime. For a kid from 5 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:22,320 Speaker 2: the valley, it might as well be a different planet. 6 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 2: I'm on Mars now. New York may not be Mars, 7 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 2: but it is planet Model. The women are impossibly tall 8 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 2: and thin. They're wearing miniskirts, big hoop earrings, super glam. 9 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 3: Every girl is six foot tall. Then they put on 10 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 3: their heels are six y three. 11 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:44,600 Speaker 2: Paul's got alleged mobster Larry Lamb's money, and he's hitting 12 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 2: the most exclusive nightclubs in town for research. 13 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:53,240 Speaker 3: There's Andy Warhol over there, San right over there. Diana 14 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 3: Ross is right over there. I'm getting hit on by 15 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 3: what's her name, Grace Jones. 16 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 2: Now we couldn't confirm if Paul was hit on by 17 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 2: Grace Jones, but she's one of the most iconic models 18 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:07,960 Speaker 2: of this era. Born in Jamaica, she has laser cut 19 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:12,400 Speaker 2: features and is the master of the androgynous look. She's 20 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 2: insanely intimidating. She's probably best known for joining Christopher Walken 21 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 2: as creepy villains in the James Bond film A Few 22 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:23,400 Speaker 2: to a Kill. 23 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: Your helicopter leaves in twenty minutes. 24 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 4: Oh, does that mean you're not saying the. 25 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 3: Night I'm going in the nightclubs going? Is that a 26 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 3: dude or a chick? Where am I? 27 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 2: It's a swirl of androgyny, of sex. But Paul, as 28 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:42,319 Speaker 2: we've learned by now, is a confident guy. He gets 29 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 2: dropped on Mars and thinks, yeah, I could fit in here. 30 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 3: I don't know what the hell. I had no clue, 31 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 3: less than no clue, but I did know modeling had 32 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 3: to do with girls, and if it had to do 33 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 3: with girls, I'm your man. 34 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 2: Paul doesn't even really know what a model is other 35 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 2: than a girl, some subspecies of an entire sex. He 36 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 2: doesn't know Schnell's last campaign. 37 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 3: I think we called a channel. I don't know what 38 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 3: anyone's talking about. It's not my world, not my world. 39 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 3: My taste changed, what turned me on changed, what I 40 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 3: got attracted to changed, everything changed. It was like you're 41 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 3: on the cover of that magazine and you're standing right 42 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 3: next to me, and I'm in a nightclub and there's 43 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 3: five of them, and there's in the middle of them. 44 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 3: As John Cassiblancus, Who the fuck is he? 45 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 2: Of course, the man in the middle of this tableau 46 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:48,520 Speaker 2: is going to be an important figure for Paul, the 47 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 2: man who defines what a modeling agent was supposed to be, 48 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 2: the power and privileges such a man could have if 49 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 2: he plays his cards right. 50 00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 3: He was a handsomest shit Spanish guy. Everyone kissing the 51 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,519 Speaker 3: fucking ring. I want that. 52 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 2: From I heard podcasts and campside media. I'm Vanessa Grigoriotis, 53 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 2: and this is Model Wars New York in the early eighties. 54 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 2: It smells like urine and money. It's a great place 55 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 2: to get mugged on the subway or to meet the 56 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 2: most gorgeous women in the world. It's grit and it's glamour, 57 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 2: and it's all mixed together. Now in the circles that 58 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 2: Paul wants to be in, the super glam circles, Larry 59 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 2: Lynd is nowhere to be found. Larry's money may help 60 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 2: Paul gain access to the modeling world, but he still 61 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 2: needs to make his own way. And at first, that 62 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 2: handsome Spanish guy that Paul saw in the club, the 63 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 2: one who looked like he was having a really fantastic time, 64 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 2: John Casablancis seems like the way because John Casablancas has 65 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 2: one of the biggest modeling agencies in town. John even 66 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 2: looks like a model. He's tan, long hair, He's got 67 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 2: this accent that's a little bit Spanish, a little bit French. 68 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 2: His father's wealthy. The money came from an ancestor who 69 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 2: invented a new kind of cotton spinning machine. Here's something fitting. 70 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 2: As a teen, he went to a Swiss boarding school 71 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 2: where he had a dalliance with a maid. 72 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 3: The school had. 73 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 5: Hired a new maid. Her name was Prisca. 74 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 2: The school wrote his family a letter complaining about the affair. 75 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 5: Your son has betrayed our trust. He has betrayed everyone here. 76 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 5: We don't want to know him anymore. All letters of 77 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 5: recommendation are immediately suspended. 78 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:58,359 Speaker 2: So casablanc has had a mischievous past, sort of like Paul. 79 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:02,279 Speaker 2: But in the late nineteen sixties, after a few years 80 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 2: of drifting, John decided to make his obsession with feminine 81 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 2: beauty into a career. He was going to open a 82 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 2: modeling agency. 83 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 3: My logo was a phallic symbol. I loved it. 84 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 2: John called his agency Elite and encouraged his models to 85 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 2: stay out all night. He throw huge parties in trendy nightclubs, 86 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 2: giving guests a white shirt with his face printed on it. 87 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 2: He told the models they should show up in just 88 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 2: the t shirt. Here's Paul. 89 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 3: His girls were sexy, his parties were sexy. Absolutely, he 90 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:42,160 Speaker 3: was making love to Stephanie Seymour. 91 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 2: Now Stephanie Seymour at the time was sixteen years old, 92 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 2: So we don't want to celebrate his romantic prowess there. 93 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:57,279 Speaker 2: What he was doing wasn't okay, although at the time 94 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:01,720 Speaker 2: people overlooked behavior that we called criminal now and there 95 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:05,600 Speaker 2: were people in town who didn't like John Casablancas at all, 96 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 2: people who dominated the modeling business and had for a 97 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 2: long time. 98 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:16,719 Speaker 3: He was dating all the models while Jerry and Eileen 99 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 3: were grandma and Grandpa. 100 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:23,480 Speaker 2: Jerry and Eileen Ford the old guard, the original king 101 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 2: and Queen of the New York modeling scene, although maybe 102 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 2: a lot of people viewed them less like a king 103 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 2: and queen and more like Grandpa and Grandma. John Casablancas again, 104 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 2: you know, the only things I. 105 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 5: Liked about it was that every now and then she 106 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:42,280 Speaker 5: would get drunk and throw the shoes away, and then 107 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:43,279 Speaker 5: she was human for. 108 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 2: A while, Eileen and Jerry Ford thought modeling should be 109 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 2: a high toned job for staid, serious ladies. Jerry was 110 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:55,480 Speaker 2: the numbers guy. Eileen was a scout. She was stern, magisterial, 111 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 2: a well groomed woman. Here's how Tom Han, who got 112 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 2: his start as a model in New York in the 113 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 2: late sixties and who will become an important figure to 114 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 2: Paul's story, explains Eileen and Jerry Ford they. 115 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 1: Had a reputation of being honorable and honest. When they 116 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 1: say they were going to do something, they got something done. 117 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 1: The whole thing was a very solid kind of agency, 118 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 1: was what you'd say at East Coast New York agency 119 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: would be. The modeling business really was just growing like 120 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 1: in infancy a period of time in the sixties and seventies. 121 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 1: It did exist before, but it didn't exist in the 122 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 1: way that was much. 123 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 3: More accessible to people. 124 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 1: Eileen to make sure that you had a very solid, 125 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 1: good reputation for the girls and make sure the girls behaved. 126 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 2: Eileen pushed for fair contracts, and she tried to protect 127 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 2: her girls from predatory figures. She even invited them to 128 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 2: live at her sprawling townhouse on the Upper east Side. 129 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 2: Some models loved staying there, and others felt it was 130 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 2: a lot. They have to live with me because I 131 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 2: wouldn't let them live otherwise. 132 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 6: Really, no, why because they're too young to live alone. 133 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 2: Isn't that terrific? 134 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: So you give a leg up in a lot of ways, 135 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 1: not only getting them work, but giving them supports, like. 136 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 2: Living in a convent, though it was like living with 137 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 2: the strictest aunt of all time. Here's Aaron O'Connor, a 138 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 2: former Ford supermodel, speaking in a documentary about moving in 139 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 2: with Eileen and Jerry. 140 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 4: I got there and I was greeted by the butler, 141 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 4: and then after the butler came the maid, and then 142 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 4: finally I heard a bell tinkling in the background, and 143 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:39,200 Speaker 4: I heard the voice before our eyes met each other. 144 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 4: And the first thing that she said to me was, 145 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 4: I can see I'm going to have to keep my 146 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 4: eye on you. 147 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 2: At dinner, Aileen might tell you to have three, not four, 148 00:08:56,520 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 2: spears of asparagus, or to sit up straight if you slumped, 149 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 2: or scold you for getting home too late. When Jerry Hall, 150 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 2: one of Eileen's models, started dating Mick Jagger, the Fordes 151 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 2: gave her a midnight curfew. 152 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 6: They were convinced it was an old house that I 153 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:20,319 Speaker 6: had put creaks in the stairs so I could trap 154 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 6: them if they came home. 155 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 2: Trapping models coming home after curfew may have been easy, 156 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 2: but overall, trapping models was hard, as Eileen would soon 157 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 2: find as Casablancis intruded on her turf. At first, the 158 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 2: Fordes considered the young Casablancis an ally. Eileen obviously didn't 159 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 2: like or trust him, but she was a businesswoman, so 160 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 2: Paul says the two of them came to an understanding. 161 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 3: There was a deal between Elite and ford and Eileen 162 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 3: and Johnny that says, listen. In New York, it's hard 163 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 3: to create models because there's not a lot of magazines here. 164 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:03,439 Speaker 3: There's only like four or five. There's conyn Assen, there's 165 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:07,200 Speaker 3: First Publications, so there's Vogue, there's Bizarre, there's Cosmo. There's 166 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 3: there's four or five. But in Europe, because of the 167 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 3: way you guys do your advertising, there's fifty magazines there. 168 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:16,440 Speaker 3: So when you find a great girl in America, you 169 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 3: had only one choice. You had to she had to 170 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 3: create a portfolio. How do you create a portfolio? You 171 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 3: need the magazine pages. They're in those fifty different magazines. 172 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 3: From Paris, you go to any back, then you go 173 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 3: to any magazine stand in Paris. There's fifty freaking magazines. 174 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:31,319 Speaker 3: So how do you create the portfolio? You send the 175 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 3: girl to Europe. Johnny has relationships with all those magazines. 176 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 3: He creates the resume for those girls. 177 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:39,680 Speaker 2: And by the way, Ford sent them new models to 178 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 2: Casablancas to build out their portfolios. Then Casablancaz sent his 179 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 2: European models back to New York where the Fords would 180 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:50,680 Speaker 2: set them up with high paying work in exchange for 181 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 2: a commission. It was good business for everyone, but John 182 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 2: had to make one big promise. 183 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 3: According to Paul, they're only one deal, and Eileen had 184 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:05,199 Speaker 3: was one written contract. One clause in the contract that 185 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 3: meant anything, you will never open up your modeling agency 186 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:10,679 Speaker 3: in New York City. 187 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 2: And then he went ahead and opened an Elite branch 188 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 2: in New York. 189 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 5: I'm just doing one of the things that I think 190 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 5: are most popular here in America, which is competition, free competition. 191 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 1: John Casablancas when he moved to New York and he 192 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 1: opened the Elite in New York, I mean he was 193 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: out to just rule the world, it seems, And I know, 194 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 1: Eileen was furious because he had such a horrible reputation 195 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:41,600 Speaker 1: and to hear he was able to still have an 196 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 1: agency in New. 197 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 2: York Castle Blancas didn't just come to New York, he 198 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 2: went after Ford's talent. 199 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:50,320 Speaker 1: Suddenly, costap Blancus is coming in and trying to swoop 200 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 1: up everything and snow he's just steal the models from 201 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 1: other agencies, but steal the workers who worked at those 202 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 1: agentses by paying them huge salaries just to get them 203 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 1: to leave Forwards and to leave Wilhelmina and so forth. 204 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 2: He poached Joe Sagami, the controller, and Monique Pollard, head 205 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 2: of the women's booking table. 206 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 3: He opened up his agency with basically the stars of 207 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 3: the Fords that he's been creating in Paris. 208 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: It just doesn't serve you well to be around that 209 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:22,200 Speaker 1: atmosphere all day long and worry about your talent being 210 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: stolen or your booker's being stolen, that kind of thing. 211 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 3: It was just such terrible energy. 212 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:30,680 Speaker 1: John casablanc has really shifted the business in a way 213 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 1: that some people may say, oh, yeah, he was great, 214 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 1: but you know, from my point of view, he did 215 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 1: more to destroy the ethics and morality of the business 216 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: than any person I. 217 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 2: Know, ethics and morality in the modeling business. After casabank 218 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:48,960 Speaker 2: has betrayed the Forwards and opened his agency in New York, 219 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 2: Eileen sent some people who had defected to his agency 220 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 2: a bible. 221 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 3: An actual bible. Google it, and she underlined a passage 222 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 3: about Judas. And then she made her fatal freaking flaw. 223 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:10,199 Speaker 3: She sued him, and the press got a hold of it. 224 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 3: No one in the world outside of Paris had ever 225 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 3: heard the name John Casablancas or elite modeling agency. No 226 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 3: one knew it. It was like a freaking freckle, a 227 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 3: bad pimple, And then everyone knew it. She sued his 228 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 3: ass and that made him famous, and then every other 229 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:35,440 Speaker 3: model was like, well, if those five top models are 230 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:37,840 Speaker 3: going over to mister Casablancas and he's out there partying 231 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 3: every night, and I'm seeing him over there at that 232 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 3: freaking table right over there at Cafe to back, and 233 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 3: this kid, oh shit. And then it was like the 234 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:51,560 Speaker 3: floodgates opened and he offered the industry something else. Sex. 235 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 2: What do you mean by that? Oh? 236 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 3: Sexy? Noess, sexy? No one more conservative? Shit party with 237 00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 3: the girls, hang out at night. Let's that big party. 238 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 2: And that's how John Casablancas set the table for Paul Fisher. 239 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 2: Picture Paul Fisher. He's got a jew fro, he's wearing 240 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 2: some cool jeans cut just right. Maybe he's got on 241 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 2: a vest and he's surrounded. But what he loves more 242 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 2: than anything in the world. 243 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 3: So we've got pictures of me with like six models 244 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 3: on the Ferrari. 245 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 2: Like Casablancas before him, Paul's goal is to pillage. He 246 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 2: figures the best way to get a slice of the 247 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 2: New York model agency pie is just roll up and 248 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 2: steal it off the windowsill piping hot. 249 00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 3: I walked into the biggest modeling agencies in New York City, 250 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 3: Elite Ford, Wilhelmina, Click, and I pretended I was doing 251 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 3: a big ad campaign, and I would say to their agents, Hey, 252 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 3: by the way, how much how much money did you 253 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 3: make a week? And they'd say, oh, you know why, 254 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 3: I just know. I'll just come with that Curiousitywow, how 255 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 3: much how much you make? I make eight hundred bucks 256 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 3: a week? One thousand bucks a week, okay, I'll pay it, 257 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 3: two thousand bucks a week. I'll pay six months in advance. 258 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 3: I'll pay it cash, come with me, now leave this company. 259 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 2: This was a brawl, just like the one John Casablancas 260 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 2: and Aileen Ford had had. In the industry, it's called 261 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:47,359 Speaker 2: a model war. A model war is when two agencies 262 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 2: or more decide to pot bookers and models from the other, 263 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 2: both trying to take the other down. And Paul's pitch 264 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 2: worked just like it worked for Casablancas. Now Paul had 265 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 2: established agents with clients and connections, and even more valuable, 266 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 2: it gave him industry expertise, which of course it had 267 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 2: none of himself. 268 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 3: All these different people, they would start to teach me 269 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 3: the industry. Oh, this is how catalogs works, this is 270 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 3: how this is how advertising works. These are who the 271 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 3: photographers are, this is a casting person, this is the magazines. 272 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 3: And I would just start to be a freaking sponge 273 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 3: and I would start to learn. 274 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 2: But Paul knew he needed a more senior mentor and 275 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 2: also someone with the experience to manage these agents. 276 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 3: And who would oversee these agents. 277 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 2: Tom Han Tom, who you've been hearing from, had the 278 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 2: kind of track record that everyone in the industry took seriously. 279 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 2: He wasn't going to come cheap, but as we know 280 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 2: Larry Lynd had money. 281 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: Apparently the guys were funding all of this had a 282 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 1: lot of money to do it. I said, well, if 283 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 1: they got enough money, let's do it. 284 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 2: Then Tom lived in LA but for the upstart Lend Agency, 285 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 2: my money was no object. 286 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 1: You want me to come to New York. I don't 287 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:05,439 Speaker 1: want to live there, but you know I'm willing to 288 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 1: do this. They want to meet my terms and I'll 289 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:08,360 Speaker 1: do it. 290 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:10,360 Speaker 3: And all you had to do is come into New 291 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:13,400 Speaker 3: York three days a week and teach me the modeling industry. 292 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:16,640 Speaker 3: And so he did. For a year. Tom would fly 293 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 3: into New York. We'd haven't picked up a helicopter at 294 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:22,639 Speaker 3: wherever it was. JFK Orlaguardi or whatever. Treated him like 295 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 3: a freaking king. I had all this cash those days. 296 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 1: PanAm had a flight. You could get off the plane, 297 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:31,160 Speaker 1: you walk across into another room and got into a helicopter, 298 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 1: and the helicopter brought you into the city. So I 299 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 1: would automatically get off the flight from La, hop on 300 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 1: a helicopter which would drop me off on fifty ninth 301 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:41,879 Speaker 1: Street Bridge and they would have a limousine pick me 302 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: up and take me to my office. Because I'd slept 303 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 1: on the plane all night and I can go right 304 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 1: to work and work there Wednesday, Thursday and Friday, and 305 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:51,400 Speaker 1: Friday I would fly back to La So I got 306 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 1: a lot of mile each other that PanAm club. 307 00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 3: And Tom would come in and he'd help me put 308 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:02,439 Speaker 3: together the team. And because of Tommy and he had 309 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 3: such credibility when I stole those agents and having Tom, 310 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 3: I built a little modeling agency in New York City 311 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:08,040 Speaker 3: for the Mobster. 312 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 1: I didn't have any reason to think anything wrong about 313 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:13,440 Speaker 1: because the tickets were paid for, checks were in the mail. 314 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:16,320 Speaker 1: I got paid and I didn't question it because it 315 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: was coming from some people in Texas. I didn't know 316 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:21,680 Speaker 1: anything about the people at all. 317 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:24,680 Speaker 2: It was good in a way that Tom didn't really 318 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 2: know Larry. It just allowed Tom to methodically approach industry 319 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 2: contacts the way he wanted to, because Tom's approach was 320 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 2: a bit more measured than that of Paul. He was practical, unadorned. 321 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:39,160 Speaker 2: He's that kind of guy. 322 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 1: It wasn't difficult, you know, you just call up and 323 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:44,880 Speaker 1: introduce yourself and just say I'm Tom. You know, I'd 324 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 1: like to talk to you about maybe a couple of 325 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:48,440 Speaker 1: CEA and a couple of girls. You had to sort 326 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:51,919 Speaker 1: of seek out through the advertising agencies what big jobs 327 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: were happening. And that's the kind of way you you said, 328 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 1: do your own source work. It's a lot of research 329 00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:00,160 Speaker 1: in those days. But there was a list of all 330 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:02,440 Speaker 1: the photographers in New York at all the ad agencies, 331 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 1: So we just had to make phone calls all day 332 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:06,919 Speaker 1: long to see what was going on. I had to 333 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:10,640 Speaker 1: learn to speak the language that they understood, so how 334 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:15,119 Speaker 1: they presented themselves. If their voice was modular and spoke 335 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 1: nicely and softly, and I would speak back. 336 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:18,160 Speaker 3: That way to them. 337 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 1: If they were going a you know, how's it going there? 338 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:22,639 Speaker 1: That kind of talk, I would have to change my 339 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 1: voice to that. You have to sort of match what 340 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 1: it is you're trying to zoom in on. You know, 341 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 1: you have to find new models all the time. And 342 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 1: that wasn't exactly a source. I mean there were modeling schools, 343 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 1: but you didn't pay attention to those. But I mean 344 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:37,719 Speaker 1: I'd be walking down the street if I saw somebody 345 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 1: I thought was interesting, I'd stop them on the street 346 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 1: and say, are you interested in being a model? And 347 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: I remember I did find one guy one day and 348 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:48,679 Speaker 1: he hardly spoke English. He was a steward, I believe 349 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 1: for one of the big airlines. He was Austrian and 350 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:55,119 Speaker 1: he ended up becoming one of the biggest catalog models 351 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:57,679 Speaker 1: in the world, and he hardly spoke English when I 352 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:00,359 Speaker 1: met him. I had to drag the Australia to the age, 353 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:04,000 Speaker 1: introduced them to people, got some pictures taken, and eventually 354 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 1: got a working visa form so he could stay in 355 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:06,880 Speaker 1: America and work. 356 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 2: Tom knew he needed a strategy to get the Lind 357 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:13,720 Speaker 2: Agency on the map quickly, and he decided representing the 358 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:16,879 Speaker 2: children of celebrities would be a good Niche a lot 359 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:19,960 Speaker 2: of them had the looks, plus their family names would 360 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:21,359 Speaker 2: help get a lot of press. 361 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,640 Speaker 3: We got Susie Parker, who is a very famous Chanel model, 362 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 3: her daughter Georgia de la Salle. 363 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 2: Look at Paul learning to speak French already. The only 364 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:33,159 Speaker 2: problem with Georgia de la Salle, who had modeled before 365 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 2: and for top photographers, was that as a fit for 366 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,399 Speaker 2: the Lind Agency, she was busy going to Harvard and 367 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:44,160 Speaker 2: she did not exactly speak alleged mobster. 368 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 1: She could speak Sanskrit, which is a dead language, so 369 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:51,119 Speaker 1: af you're showing you her brain power. And then as 370 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:53,120 Speaker 1: she came there, I walked her over to Richard Avadon. 371 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 1: Steward walked in and he looked at her and put 372 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 1: on a stool and start taking pictures right away. So 373 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:00,879 Speaker 1: her career just took off. She did it for a 374 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 1: few years, but then had enough of that went back 375 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:07,159 Speaker 1: to her academics and her world of scholarly people. And 376 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 1: I believe she's in Germany now. I think she last 377 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: I had heard she was living in Germany and working 378 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:16,720 Speaker 1: in Buddhist teachings and that kind of thing. 379 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 2: Tom says. Lynde also worked with Eartha Kit's daughter Kit McDonald. 380 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 2: Eartha Kit, if you may recall, is the voice behind 381 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:30,400 Speaker 2: Santa Baby, and she's the woman who played Catwoman on TV. 382 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 1: Well, I signed those girls into the agency. That was 383 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 1: great because it was all part of a plan to 384 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 1: get the marketing going with Warren Count Agencies. So it 385 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 1: wasn't like I got excited about saying, oh my god, 386 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 1: this is happening. I knew at the time that if 387 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 1: I did this and did that, then it would equal that. 388 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 1: So I was more like, I want to say, the 389 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:57,399 Speaker 1: architect there, you know, and Paul was one of the 390 00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:58,880 Speaker 1: students who was learning to be. 391 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:03,920 Speaker 2: An architect in building the agency. Tom a psychology major, 392 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 2: saw beyond Paul's Girls, Girls, Girls persona. 393 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:10,680 Speaker 1: It was almost like he had been waiting all his 394 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 1: life to be in a world where he could suddenly 395 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 1: be accepted for who he was and be talked to. 396 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,920 Speaker 1: You know, I think coming from la you don't really 397 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,160 Speaker 1: feel like you have a lot going on when you 398 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 1: first go to New York. But once he was in 399 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,240 Speaker 1: the scene, he was all rare and he was all gone, 400 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 1: and he was a lot of fun. Paul had to 401 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:32,960 Speaker 1: learn to be the kind of agent he wanted to be, 402 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 1: but he also understood that there are boundaries and what 403 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 1: you don't cross and what you don't do, and he 404 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,359 Speaker 1: was very diligent about that. He had to learn very 405 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:46,879 Speaker 1: much in the beginning because if he got the reputation that, 406 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:50,679 Speaker 1: you know, like a Johnny Johnny Coslak has had, there 407 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 1: would be no winning in that game. Ultimately you always 408 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 1: end up paying a bad price. 409 00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 2: Well, Paul still has a few lessons to learn. He's 410 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,840 Speaker 2: crazy with ambition, maybe just wants to be accepted for 411 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:08,199 Speaker 2: who he was, and all that validation is just putting 412 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 2: more fuel on the fire. At the same time, Paul 413 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 2: is declaring a model war. Something is going on in 414 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 2: Paul's personal life that is extremely serious, extremely unglamorous. He's 415 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:30,399 Speaker 2: doing blow and nightclub bathrooms, plotting his takeover of the 416 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 2: modeling industry, living the good life to the fullest, all 417 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:37,479 Speaker 2: on Larry Lynn's dime. But Paul is only a New 418 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 2: York part of the time. Often he's back in LA 419 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 2: because he's got business there too. 420 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 3: It's always hard to talk about Deborah. 421 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:51,439 Speaker 2: Deborah is Paul's younger sister, just eighteen months younger, but 422 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:54,240 Speaker 2: he's always been determined to protect her. 423 00:23:54,680 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 6: I remember in junior high, in elementary school, dev was 424 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:06,399 Speaker 6: very well built and she developed her body developed very early. 425 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 2: Paul and Dever's mom, Monica, remembers a time when Deborah 426 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,960 Speaker 2: was assigned to be the hall monitor or something like 427 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 2: that for her elementary school class. She was holding the 428 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:21,479 Speaker 2: door open for the kids as they filed past, and 429 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:26,560 Speaker 2: one of her male classmates reached up and grabbed her breast. 430 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 2: Devor was so distraught that the teacher called Monica and 431 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 2: sent debr home. 432 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:36,720 Speaker 6: And she was in tears, and I was I decide myself, 433 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 6: of course, But the next day I said to the boys, 434 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:45,720 Speaker 6: because they were still in school, I said, the next day, 435 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 6: you go down there. They knew who the boy was. 436 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 2: Monica watched her sons from the car as they waited 437 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 2: at the gate of the school for the kids to 438 00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 2: file out. They knew this boy walked himself home. 439 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,239 Speaker 6: And they didn't say a word. They just went up 440 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,399 Speaker 6: to him and they walked him through the gate, and 441 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 6: they knew where he lived. And they walked to him 442 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,440 Speaker 6: side by side, and he was a little tiny, very 443 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:15,920 Speaker 6: small for his age, very very small, and they never 444 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 6: said a word. The kid was shaking. He didn't know 445 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 6: what was going to happen. And as they walked up 446 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:22,479 Speaker 6: the hill towards his house, fine, and I followed with 447 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 6: the car, so I knew what was going to happen. 448 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 6: My oldest son said to him, whatever his name was, 449 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 6: Sonny boy, or whatever, you ever touch my sister again. 450 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 6: My brother here, Paul will beat the shit out of you. 451 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 6: And Paul said, that's right, take a good look at me, 452 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 6: because I'll be following you. And the kid never bothered 453 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 6: Eborah again. But it was, you know, they were very 454 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:52,920 Speaker 6: very protective of her. 455 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 2: Always, always, it wasn't many years later that the news came. 456 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 3: He had Hodgkins disease at the age of sixteen years old. 457 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 2: The diagnosis first came when Paul was in college at 458 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 2: UC Santa Barbara, and he'd break away from the dorms 459 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,399 Speaker 2: on the weekends when Devor was getting chemo, sneak her 460 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:18,000 Speaker 2: out the back of the hospital in her wheelchair. They'd 461 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 2: smoke joints together to help her with her nausea. 462 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 3: She just was different and smart and creative. 463 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 7: And just just incredible, incredible, and just an incredible young woman. Yeah, incredible. 464 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,160 Speaker 7: So I loved her. We all loved her. 465 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,720 Speaker 2: Deborah was still sick when Paul was in New York, 466 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,439 Speaker 2: partying like a madman, trying to get wind off the ground. 467 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 3: Because of my job, I had the flexibility to always 468 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 3: be there with her and to always care for her 469 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,639 Speaker 3: with my mom. So I was there watching her little tushy, 470 00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:58,680 Speaker 3: taken her out of the Cedar side of Kansas Center, 471 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 3: put her on the freaking toilet. I was the one 472 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 3: who did all those things. I was always close to 473 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 3: Debora pre cancer, but then when she got cancer. 474 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 2: You know, Nebra was fighting for her life in the hospital, 475 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 2: trying to stave off panic attacks as death lived. 476 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 6: When she'd go to sleep at night being in the hospital. 477 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 6: You know how you wake up first thing in the morning, 478 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:25,440 Speaker 6: That first second you're not sure. 479 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:26,120 Speaker 3: Where you are. 480 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,959 Speaker 6: Before you you know, two seconds in you realize. But 481 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 6: she'd say, she once told him that she'd wake up 482 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 6: and it was so quiet in the hospital that she 483 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:41,240 Speaker 6: thought she was She used to think she was dead, 484 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,879 Speaker 6: and it took her maybe ten seconds to realize she 485 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:46,960 Speaker 6: wasn't dead. She was terrified of dying. She didn't want 486 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:47,359 Speaker 6: to die. 487 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:51,679 Speaker 2: Paul would sleep through the night in a chair in 488 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:52,240 Speaker 2: her room. 489 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:55,440 Speaker 6: One day I came in and said, what are all 490 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:56,919 Speaker 6: these chocolate papers on the floor. 491 00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 3: My sister would wake up in the middle of the 492 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 3: fucking night and she'd say, when I go to sleep 493 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 3: at night, Paul, I don't know if I'm gonna wake 494 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:05,879 Speaker 3: up in the morning. And I said, I gotta I 495 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:09,239 Speaker 3: know how to do it. Wait right there, And so 496 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 3: I went and I went in the Cino side of 497 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,200 Speaker 3: cancer center, and I went into every fucking vending machine 498 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,919 Speaker 3: and I bought like, like fifty chocolate bars. And then 499 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 3: I would take out the Hershey's and I would get 500 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 3: rid of the chocolate, and I would keep the silver wrapping, 501 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:24,920 Speaker 3: and then I would take the silver wrapping and I 502 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 3: would put it into my sister Deborah socks, And I said, 503 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,440 Speaker 3: all you got to do in the morning, wiggle your 504 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:36,359 Speaker 3: fucking toes. And if you wiggle your toes and you 505 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 3: hear the crinkle of the hrshees, you'll know you're alive. 506 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 2: For most people, having a sick family member means an 507 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 2: inability to focus on work on getting ahead in a career, 508 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 2: but for Paul it was the reverse. He's even more 509 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:01,760 Speaker 2: driven because he feels life is short, and the more 510 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 2: he gets to know New York and the people working 511 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 2: for Cosablancas, for Eileen Ford, for everybody, the more he 512 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 2: feels like he can dominate. He's sure that all the 513 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 2: people he's hiring, all these people he's burning money on 514 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:18,760 Speaker 2: so that they can teach him the modeling industry are 515 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,960 Speaker 2: total garbage, except for Tom Han. 516 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:28,280 Speaker 3: They suck, They suck. They're good, they've created a couple 517 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 3: of molels before, but they're never going to get me 518 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 3: to be John Casablancas. They're never going to get me 519 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 3: in a position where I can go ahead to head 520 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 3: with Eileen Ford, for God's sakes, They're never going to 521 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 3: allow me to win this freaking game. They're never going 522 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 3: to put me on a map and make me the 523 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,440 Speaker 3: most famous, powerful ALLI agent in the freaking world. That's 524 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:54,480 Speaker 3: never gonna happen. They suck, they're cute, they're good, they're average, 525 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 3: but they're not the real freaking deal until I met 526 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 3: Sean Philippe Brandon or whatever his freaking name was. 527 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 2: The reason Paul doesn't know the name of his most 528 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 2: prominent mentor in the modeling industry is that the mentor 529 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 2: himself was rather confused on the subject. 530 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,720 Speaker 3: And basically every time he come to see me, he'd 531 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 3: have a different accent and a different name. So one 532 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 3: day he'd he'd be like, he's an Irishman and I 533 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:25,280 Speaker 3: can't do any accent, so I'm not going to do 534 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 3: it and sound like an asshole. But he was branding 535 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 3: the Irishman. Then he'd come in to be Jean Philippe, 536 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 3: the French photographer. Then he was Trevor from London, and 537 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 3: every time he'd come in with a different accent, a 538 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:39,000 Speaker 3: different name, totally disheveled looking, and him and I would 539 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 3: sit up and he used to do this guy he 540 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:44,720 Speaker 3: was my secret weapon. He used to work a click 541 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 3: and it was a scout. He'd discovered people like Uma 542 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 3: Thurman and a bunch of other big, freaking stars. But 543 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,040 Speaker 3: he had a problem, and everybody in the industry knew 544 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 3: it was. Here was a freak. 545 00:30:54,160 --> 00:31:00,120 Speaker 2: There were allegations of sexual impropriety with his subjects. 546 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 3: A freaking pervert, but he knew the industry better than 547 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 3: anyone on the planet. My staff every time he walked 548 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 3: into the place, my staff would say, we're quitting. If 549 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 3: you have that guy in our place one more time, 550 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,920 Speaker 3: we're quitting. So he'd have to come when they would leave, 551 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 3: and him and I would stay there till four o'clock 552 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 3: in the freaking morning. And he taught me everything. Paul. 553 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 3: Here's how the campaigns were, Here's how this works. Here's 554 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 3: who the top models are for the last twenty years. 555 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:27,440 Speaker 3: Here's how Eileen Ford started. Here's how Johnny Cassabuencas came in. 556 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,480 Speaker 3: This is what happened between the Aileen John Casawenka's wars. 557 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:32,240 Speaker 3: This is where Johnny came from. This is how many 558 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 3: times he failed. These are the stars that each agency represents. 559 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 3: This is how you edit a picture. This is the 560 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:38,760 Speaker 3: proper angle, this is the proper lighting. These are the 561 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:40,840 Speaker 3: top ten photographers, these are the top casting people. He 562 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:46,000 Speaker 3: taught me everything no one else. I mean, my team 563 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:50,840 Speaker 3: didn't know a tenth of what this man knew. And 564 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 3: he just was he schizophrenic. I have no idea, I 565 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 3: don't care, I don't know, but to be honest with you, 566 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 3: I loved him, fucking loved him. 567 00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 2: A model who speaks Sanskrit, a sexual predator photographer with 568 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:14,320 Speaker 2: an undiagnosed psychiatric condition, and a million dollars in rumored 569 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 2: mob money with zero financial oversight. Paul's really making his 570 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:25,200 Speaker 2: way now. Larry Lynn did well giving Paul the benefit 571 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:29,240 Speaker 2: of the doubt because lind Agency is ready to conquer 572 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:32,080 Speaker 2: New York. 573 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 3: I would go to these things and it was like 574 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:37,320 Speaker 3: you had to wear the smallest, tightest little dress, your 575 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:39,520 Speaker 3: little black dress, and like you know, show your moves 576 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:41,880 Speaker 3: and like you know, always show your legs, and that's 577 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:42,440 Speaker 3: just how you are. 578 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:44,880 Speaker 8: We will go to Western Union once or twice a 579 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,360 Speaker 8: week and come out of Wistern Union with you know, 580 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 8: eighty grand, one hundred grand, you know, we were you know, 581 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 8: forty run in our pocket each and walk back to the. 582 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,120 Speaker 3: House and he's spending all this money. We ain't making 583 00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:58,080 Speaker 3: a dime. He's right, but you can't be coming in 584 00:32:58,240 --> 00:32:59,360 Speaker 3: threatening to kill people. 585 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 1: There was a shit to them in a fine way, 586 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:03,480 Speaker 1: and I don't want to say shady and bad way, 587 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 1: but there was just something that seemed sneaky. 588 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:09,560 Speaker 2: Bob, Dylan and Blurry lived together in the summers and 589 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 2: they sang on the streets with New York City somehow. 590 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:16,720 Speaker 2: That's all next on Model Wars. 591 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 9: Model Wars was a production of iHeart Podcasts and Campside Media. 592 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 9: Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 593 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 9: get your podcasts. Model Wars was executive produced and hosted 594 00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 9: by Vanessa Gregoriotis. Our senior writer was Michael Kenyon Meyer. 595 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 2: Julia K. 596 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,640 Speaker 9: S Levine was our producer and reporter. Our senior producer 597 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:47,000 Speaker 9: was Lily Houston Smith, and our assistant editor was Emma Simonoff. 598 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,760 Speaker 9: We had story and production help from Shoshi Schmulowitz, Ali. 599 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 2: Haney, and Blake Rook. 600 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:55,560 Speaker 9: Our production manager was Ashley Warren and our studio recordist 601 00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,880 Speaker 9: was Ewan Lei Tremuen. Sound design, mix and engineering by 602 00:33:58,880 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 9: Mark McCadam. 603 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 2: iHeart Podcasts. 604 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:04,840 Speaker 9: Executive producers were Jennifer Bassett and Katrina Norbel. The show 605 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:08,120 Speaker 9: was also executive produced by Rachel Winter and Campside Media's 606 00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:11,239 Speaker 9: Josh Dean, Adam Hoff, and Matt Share. If you'd like 607 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,799 Speaker 9: to access behind the scenes content from Model Wars and 608 00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:17,879 Speaker 9: Campside Media, please go to join campside dot com. That's 609 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,080 Speaker 9: j O I N C A M P s I 610 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,760 Speaker 9: d E dot com. If you enjoyed Model Wars, please 611 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,319 Speaker 9: rate and review the show wherever you get your podcasts. 612 00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 9: Thanks so much for listening.