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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class from how

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Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Katie Lambert and I'm Sarah Daddy, and we are

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Speaker 1: suffering through a long, rainy week in Atlanta, and we've

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Speaker 1: all been sharing playlists. Yeah, so to try to cheer

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Speaker 1: ourselves up, we've been listening to the Bengals walk like

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Speaker 1: an Egyptian and practicing a little bit too, to assume

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Speaker 1: that physically impossible Egyptian pose when you have to keep

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Speaker 1: yourself entertained in a cubicle somehow. So I think that's

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Speaker 1: as good reason as any. But that brings us to Cleopatra,

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Speaker 1: whose children are the subject of our podcast today. And

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Speaker 1: this was a listener request from Molly, So thanks to

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Speaker 1: Molly for this one. So most of us obviously think

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Speaker 1: of Cleopatra as kind of a fum fatale embodied by

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Speaker 1: Elizabeth Taylor, and there are always all these discussions of

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Speaker 1: was she really beautiful or what kind of ruler was she?

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Speaker 1: And I think kind of lost in the discussion is

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Speaker 1: this fact that Cleopatra actually was a mother to four children, um,

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Speaker 1: and that just doesn't seem to play into her image.

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Speaker 1: So Cleopatra was born in seventy or sixty nine VC.

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Speaker 1: She is obviously Queen of Egypt, not at birth, but

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Speaker 1: she isn't of Egyptian ancestry. She's Macedonian um Greek, and

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Speaker 1: they have been in power since the death of Alexander

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Speaker 1: the Great, and men start factoring into her life at

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Speaker 1: a very early age when her father dies and she

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Speaker 1: becomes co ruler of Egypt, when she marries her brother

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Speaker 1: or one of the many Ptolemy's, which this actually happens

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Speaker 1: a few times more than one brother athrough our brother

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Speaker 1: husband at various readers will be happy to know. None

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Speaker 1: of her children are fathered by her brother, and she

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Speaker 1: was supposed to share power, but I don't think that

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Speaker 1: really ended up happening because Cleopatra very much liked her

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Speaker 1: own way, and she was much older than her brother too.

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Speaker 1: She was a teenager when she assumed the throne. Her

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Speaker 1: brother was under ten I think he was young. So

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Speaker 1: she and this brother end up having a falling out.

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Speaker 1: She's exiled and has to leave Egypt, and she wants

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Speaker 1: to come back and face her brother and regain her throne.

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Speaker 1: And that's when she realizes that a certain man may

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Speaker 1: be able to help her. A Roman ally by the

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Speaker 1: name of Julius Caesar, and according to legend, Cleopatra shows

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Speaker 1: up at Caesar's rolled up in a Persian carpet and

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Speaker 1: has a servant unroll it when she appears at the

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Speaker 1: end like tada to grand effect, which she turns out

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Speaker 1: to be very good at and Caesar's smitten he is,

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Speaker 1: and this gets Cleopatra's some much needed help and they

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Speaker 1: eventually become lovers, which leads to the birth of Cleopatra's

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Speaker 1: first child, Ptolemy Caesar, who is believed to be the

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Speaker 1: son of Caesar, although Caesar never actually recognized him himself.

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Speaker 1: That Cleopatra does, and she tells everyone that it's Caesar's

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Speaker 1: son and celebrates his birth and has him put on

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Speaker 1: a coin. Yeah, and she she puts him on a

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Speaker 1: coin with her representing heredity, and her son is the

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Speaker 1: infant Arrows. And it's no small matter that she's recognizing

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Speaker 1: her son because after all, he is illegitimate. She's queen. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Some people see this as bringing shame on the Ptolemy family. Also,

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Speaker 1: if she plays her cards right, he could be the

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Speaker 1: one that unites the East and West exactly. Put everything together.

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Speaker 1: Cleopatra wants Caesarian named Caesar's air, but instead he picks Octavian,

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Speaker 1: who is his nephew and Caesar is married to at

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Speaker 1: the time. But Cleopatra ends up going to Rome on

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Speaker 1: a state visit with her infant son and takes up

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Speaker 1: residence in Caesar's gardens, and Romans aren't too happy about no,

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Speaker 1: they hate her. It's luxurious foreign queen living in Caesar's

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Speaker 1: backyard basically while he's married with her a legitimate son.

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Speaker 1: They were not thrilled with the idea of Cleipatra at all.

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Speaker 1: But soon enough Caesar is assassinated and Cleo gets out

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Speaker 1: of town. It is time to go because all sorts

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Speaker 1: of skirmishes for power start after Caesar's death, you know,

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Speaker 1: because he's going to rule now, and the Triumvirate gets

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Speaker 1: set up. And this is when another man comes into

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Speaker 1: Cleopatra's life, Mark Antony. So Mark Anthony is initially interested

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Speaker 1: in what role Cleopatra had in the aftermath of Caesar's death, like, basically,

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Speaker 1: how did she play her cards? Was shed loyal or

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Speaker 1: basically Clepatra hadn't done much, she had she had laid

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Speaker 1: low um So Clepatra knows how to impress these Roman statesmen.

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Speaker 1: Though it doesn't she, as I put in my notes,

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Speaker 1: girl knows how to work. It comes to Tarsus to

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Speaker 1: see Mark Anthony. She's been summoned there, and she is

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Speaker 1: dressed as Isis and comes in on a barge with

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Speaker 1: just loads and loads of gifts for him. And Anthony

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Speaker 1: already fancies himself as the modern Dionysius, so to see

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Speaker 1: his counterpart, the modern Isis is very exciting for us. Enchanted.

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Speaker 1: It totally works. So she gets her way and he

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Speaker 1: recognizes her as an independent monarch, which is more than

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Speaker 1: she really could have hoped with. Yeah, instead of a

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Speaker 1: Roman puppet. Essentially, and I think this is your favorite part.

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Speaker 1: They start a society of inimitable livers, which when I

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Speaker 1: read that, I kept thinking of the organ, but I

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Speaker 1: think they mean more like people who live, although I

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Speaker 1: don't know, judging by the debauchery that they're known for,

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Speaker 1: livers might be a important component. I just keep reading

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Speaker 1: about their dinners. They eat everything from peacocks to cranes

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Speaker 1: and sturgeons, and everyone wore wreaths of flowers, and they

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Speaker 1: had dancing girls, and it just sounds completely ridiculous in

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Speaker 1: one derful way. Yeah, this is probably a cult dedicated

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Speaker 1: to Dionysus. But during this exciting time they have together,

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Speaker 1: they also conceived twins, Alexander Helias and Cleopatra Selini. But

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Speaker 1: Antony is also married let us add a few times

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Speaker 1: during times um and by the time the twins are born,

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Speaker 1: he's actually returned to Italy. His wife has died, but

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Speaker 1: he's married in this political alliance to octavian sister Octavia

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Speaker 1: Um and they settle in Athens. But meanwhile things with

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Speaker 1: the Triumvirate start to crumble, and this political marriage, while

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Speaker 1: it holds things together for a little while, Octavia actually

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Speaker 1: mediates a dispute between her brother and Anthony. Eventually, Anthony

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Speaker 1: realizes things are not going to work with Octavian and

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Speaker 1: consequently there's no reason to stay with his sister then,

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Speaker 1: so he heads back to the East and has another

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Speaker 1: child with Cleopatra Ptolemy Philadelphis, so they have three together now.

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Speaker 1: And after a big success in Armenia, Anthony, instead of

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Speaker 1: going home to Rome, heads to Alexandria, which was unusual.

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Speaker 1: Normally you would go back to Rome and have the

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Speaker 1: big triumphant dinner and he's possibly dressed as Dionysius. This

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Speaker 1: is somewhat iffy with historians, and they staged something called

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Speaker 1: the Donations of Alexandria, which is even more scandalous than

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Speaker 1: the Triumph in Alexandria. So on a platform of silver,

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Speaker 1: Anthony and Cleopatra sit on golden thrones. Cleopatra dressed as

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Speaker 1: Ices a lot of times. She didn't dress in Egyptian clothing.

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Speaker 1: She dressed um in Greek styles or Roman styles, whatever

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Speaker 1: the she she knew, she knew how to dress the part.

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Speaker 1: Basically hadgeantryat had for this. She goes for this incarnation

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Speaker 1: of Isis, and the kids are all seated on the

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Speaker 1: stage in little, tiny thrones, and uh Antony declares Ptolemy Caesar,

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Speaker 1: Cleopatra's older son, by Caesar as a legitimate son, which

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Speaker 1: is obviously bad news for Octavian if people are going

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Speaker 1: to accept this, If Caesar has a legitimate son, what's

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Speaker 1: Octavian doing exactly? Then he's a you surper. And he

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Speaker 1: goes ahead and gives some lands to his own children.

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Speaker 1: Alexander Helius is dressed as a Medean king. And remember

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Speaker 1: these are little, tiny kids, but they're all under the

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Speaker 1: age of ten I think, yeah, definitely. He's proclaimed a

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Speaker 1: great king of Armenia and all of the eastern provinces

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Speaker 1: of Alexander, the greats Empire that might be recovered as

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Speaker 1: far as India. So these are lands, they they're not

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Speaker 1: their lands to give basically. And Ptolemy Philadelphis is dressed

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Speaker 1: as a Macedonian king. He's proclaimed king of Syria and

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Speaker 1: Asia Minor. He's just a few years old. He's too,

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Speaker 1: I don't even know. It must have been a golden

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Speaker 1: year period or something. Cleopatra's Celini is proclaimed Queen of Saraka.

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Speaker 1: So this is huge and very scandalous too. Not only

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Speaker 1: is he giving away land to all of these teeny

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Speaker 1: tiny little children and stuff that doesn't even necessarily belong

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Speaker 1: to him at all, and it's not even happening in Rome,

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Speaker 1: so it starts some fishers in his public image. And

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Speaker 1: Anthony divorces Octavia around this time too, which could make

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Speaker 1: room for a legitimate alliance between him and Cleopatra. So

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Speaker 1: Octavian is it's time for him to act and really

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Speaker 1: do something about Antony and Cleopatra. So he finds a

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Speaker 1: will uh you know, who knows, maybe maybe a legit

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Speaker 1: will maybe not, but he says he gets from the

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Speaker 1: Vestal Virgins to turn public opinion and says that, oh

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Speaker 1: my gosh, you know, look what Mark Anthony wants to do.

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Speaker 1: He wants to transfer our capital from Rome to Alexandria.

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Speaker 1: He wants to give away our Roman lands to foreigners.

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Speaker 1: You know, can you believe an upstanding Roman citizen would

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Speaker 1: do this? But Octavian isn't too big on making a

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Speaker 1: public conflict with Anthony. He's more interested in going after

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Speaker 1: the foreign queen Cleopatra. So the Roman Senate declares war

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Speaker 1: on her in thirty one BC, and this leads to

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Speaker 1: a naval disaster known as the Battle of Acting m

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Speaker 1: which I think Candice and Jane talked about in an

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Speaker 1: earlier podcast. But basically they confront the army, Cleopatra flees

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Speaker 1: and Anthony follows her, and it's just really did not

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Speaker 1: work out as planned. To put the things mildly, and then,

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Speaker 1: as we all know from Shakespeare, we have our romantic

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Speaker 1: conclusion to their life together. Anthony receives false news that

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Speaker 1: Cleopatra is dead, falls on his sword and is taken

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Speaker 1: to her and dies at her retreat. And then she

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Speaker 1: kills herself with either a snake or poison. No one's

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Speaker 1: really sure. Early accounts say a snake, but we don't know.

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Speaker 1: So now we have motherless, fatherless children and what happens

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Speaker 1: to them. So seventeen year old Ptolemy Caesar is obviously

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Speaker 1: in a pretty risky position as the heir to the

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Speaker 1: Ptolemy's now that his mother is dead and his Caesar's

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Speaker 1: son a huge threat to Octavian. So it's likely that

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Speaker 1: before Cleopatra's death, he had been sent with his Greek

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Speaker 1: tutor to escape to baron Icy on the Red Sea coast,

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Speaker 1: and Octavian's men followed them and killed the boy. We

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Speaker 1: don't know if the tutor betrayed him or if he

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Speaker 1: just wasn't a very good guy to escape with, but

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Speaker 1: either way, the threat to Octavian has been eliminated, or

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Speaker 1: at least his biggest threat. The other three kids, Cleopatra's

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Speaker 1: and mark Antony's kids, are sent to Italy and they're

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Speaker 1: raised by Octavia, which seems rather awkward, but she actually

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Speaker 1: takes in a lot out of Anthony's wives children and

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Speaker 1: raises them along with her own. And this is Sarah's very,

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Speaker 1: very favorite part of the entire story. Cleopatra Selini gets

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Speaker 1: married to Juba too, which we think is a really

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Speaker 1: fantastic name, and I'm saving that up for my own

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Speaker 1: future children. Maybe Juba three, I don't know. So we

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Speaker 1: don't quite know what happens to the boys, Tommy Philadelphis

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Speaker 1: and Alexander Helias. Uh. There aren't any records documenting marriages,

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Speaker 1: military services, disappear, death, so it's likely that they didn't

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Speaker 1: make it to adulthood, but they probably did go with

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Speaker 1: their sister, Cleopatra Selini and Jubetu upon her marriage, and

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Speaker 1: Jubetu was king of Numidia which is now Algeria and

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Speaker 1: Tunisia in Mauritania, which is Morocco and Algeria. And interestingly enough,

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Speaker 1: he was also this sort of sad little orphan paraded

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Speaker 1: through Rome as a kid like his his wife big

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Speaker 1: humper yeah um, but had gotten a Roman education and

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Speaker 1: was in good with Octavianum, which helped his politics, because Harry,

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Speaker 1: if you're in with Octavia and you're good. And Cleopatra Selini,

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Speaker 1: Sarah was saying, like a true Macedonian queen has a

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Speaker 1: lot of influence on what he does. We're actually going

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Speaker 1: to take it one generation further to carry out this

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Speaker 1: full line of Ptolemy's, so Cleopatra Seleni and Jubet to

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Speaker 1: have a son together, Ptolemy of Mauritania, and after a

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Speaker 1: good Roman education, he ends up ruling jointly with his

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Speaker 1: father until the father dies, and then he is the

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Speaker 1: sole ruler of Mauritania and a client king of Rome,

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Speaker 1: a very loyal one at that, and so everything seems

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Speaker 1: to be going pretty well for him until about forty

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Speaker 1: a d. When he's invited to Rome by the Emperor Caligula,

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Speaker 1: which don't take Caligula's invitation, so he's received well, this

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Speaker 1: isn't like a scary visit, like come see me in Rome.

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Speaker 1: It's it's a good thing. So everything's going well until

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Speaker 1: they go to a gladiatorial match together and Ptolemy comes

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Speaker 1: in in this really flashy purple cloak and it seems

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Speaker 1: like the crowd really likes it, and Caligula is super

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Speaker 1: jealous and has him executed on his way home. Uh

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Speaker 1: it's this is according to the Roman historian sweet Tonias,

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Speaker 1: So we don't know for sure. Coligulative, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't sound sound that unlikely. It sounds a lot

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Speaker 1: like something. But we should also say that Tommy had

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Speaker 1: a lot of money, and it might have been more

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Speaker 1: about that Caligula might have just wanted his money. But

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Speaker 1: anyway you cut it, that's the end of the dynasty

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Speaker 1: of the Ptolemy's and Cleopatra. So I don't know. Maybe

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Speaker 1: that's why people have to say they're a reincarnation of Cleopatra.

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Speaker 1: Now you can't say you're a descendant. Well exactly. The

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Speaker 1: reader who sent that in Molly was wondering if there

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Speaker 1: were any of her descendants still alive today, like anyone

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Speaker 1: descended from the lineage of Cleopatra, And I'm going to

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Speaker 1: say the Ptolemy's they died out with Ptolemy of Mauritania.

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Speaker 1: So if you'd like to learn more about Cleopatra, come

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Speaker 1: check out our article did Cleopatra really Lose the Battle

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Speaker 1: of Actam? And check out our blog while you're there

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Speaker 1: on the homepage at www dot how stuff works dot com.

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