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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast, your home for

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Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,

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Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan. Is episode number two Hunted and

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Speaker 1: seventy two and today in the show we're joined by

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Speaker 1: Matt Ross and Tim Russell of the Quality Deer Management

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Speaker 1: Association to discuss trees, forests and forestry for deer hunters.

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Speaker 1: All right, welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought

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Speaker 1: to you by Onyx. And today in the show, we're

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Speaker 1: talking about trees and forests and how they impact deer

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Speaker 1: and deer hunting, and how we as hunters can influence

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Speaker 1: those forests to improve deer hunting, and a whole bunch

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Speaker 1: of things like that. So, in other words, we're talking

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Speaker 1: about forestry and timber management for deer hunters. And joining

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Speaker 1: us to discuss this topic is Matt Ross, the assistant

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Speaker 1: director of con serration for the Equality Deer Management Association

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Speaker 1: and Tim Russell, a Forrester in the Young Forest specialist

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Speaker 1: for the Cutiaman. And this is a topic that of

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Speaker 1: course is probably the very most relevant to hunters who

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Speaker 1: get a say in habitat management of the places that

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Speaker 1: they hunt. So if you fall into that bucket, get

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Speaker 1: ready for it. I think it's probably our most thorough

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Speaker 1: deep dive we've ever done into the timber related things

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Speaker 1: when it comes to management of habitat. But I also

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Speaker 1: want to make it clear that I did want to

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Speaker 1: find ways to make this conversation relevant to all hunters,

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Speaker 1: even if you know you're hunting private land by permission

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Speaker 1: or hunting public land. Um so. We talk about things

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Speaker 1: along the lines of, you know, what kinds of forest

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Speaker 1: habitat or age of forest or features of forest can

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Speaker 1: we key in on when we're hunting public land um or.

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Speaker 1: We also talked about, for example, ways that we can

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Speaker 1: influence forestry management and habitat management on public lands. Um so.

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Speaker 1: I think there's something in here for everyone. I'm excited

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Speaker 1: about that. It's a it's a real, like I said,

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Speaker 1: I say, I use this word a lot, deep dive,

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Speaker 1: but it really is a deep dive into this stuff

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Speaker 1: that I think is interesting and not talked about a

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Speaker 1: whole lot. So I'm hoping you guys will enjoy it

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Speaker 1: as much as I did. I talked to Matt and

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Speaker 1: Tim already, but I'm back here now in the future

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Speaker 1: with my co host Dan Johnson, because before we get

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Speaker 1: to the Big Dance, we did want to have a

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Speaker 1: pregame show and uh catch up a little bit on

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Speaker 1: current events in our own white Tail worlds and whatnot.

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Speaker 1: So Dan, what is uh what is new with you,

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Speaker 1: my nine fingered friend. I'll tell you what relating to

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Speaker 1: the topic. I just found out that I think this

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Speaker 1: year or next year, the um the timber that we

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Speaker 1: had that I hunt in is under some forestry preserve

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Speaker 1: type thing where they can go and log a specific

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Speaker 1: type times year, but you can't do any other alterations

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Speaker 1: to certain portions of it. So so I think in

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Speaker 1: the upcoming, like I want to say, a year, I

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Speaker 1: might actually be able to go in and talk to

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Speaker 1: the landowner about maybe doing some hinge cutting and creating

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Speaker 1: some uh some possible habitat work on some like low

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Speaker 1: value trees, identifying low value trees and maybe create some

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Speaker 1: hinge cutting opportunities on the farm that I hunt. And

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Speaker 1: uh so when I when I brought that up to

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Speaker 1: her originally she said, no, I can't allow that because

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Speaker 1: it's in this forestry program. But you know whatever, Now

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Speaker 1: I asked her again about it, and she's like, well,

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Speaker 1: that should that should be up sometime soon. So I

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Speaker 1: think I might be able to do some some habitat

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Speaker 1: work on this farm in uh in the upcoming years.

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Speaker 1: That would be pretty cool. Have you have you has

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Speaker 1: this been something that you've been kind of brain story about.

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Speaker 1: Are there areas where you already have in mind that

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Speaker 1: you really want to try to improve betting? Absolutely, especially

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Speaker 1: on like the wide open pieces of timber that are

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Speaker 1: that are there. I would love to just take a

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Speaker 1: chainsaw in there and uh make a couple of pockets. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's amazing what you can do with the chainsaw.

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Speaker 1: I've I've only been able to do a little bit

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Speaker 1: of it myself, but when you you hear about some

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Speaker 1: of these other projects that some folks are doing that

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Speaker 1: have you know, full control of their properties, it's it's

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Speaker 1: quite a tool if you you know, got to use

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Speaker 1: it safely, of course, but if you safely, it can

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Speaker 1: the simple the simple change of just getting sunlight to

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Speaker 1: hit the floor can really change the habitat um. Which

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Speaker 1: kind of we bring this up when I when I

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Speaker 1: was talking to Matt about this Originally, we brought up

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Speaker 1: the situation that you had. I don't know, was it

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Speaker 1: three years ago now that your main property got logged

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Speaker 1: and that year you were all stressed about it was

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Speaker 1: kind of messing up your hunting, you thought, And I

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Speaker 1: remember thinking, well, you know, let's wait a year or

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Speaker 1: two though you might be pretty happy about it. Then

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Speaker 1: do you feel like, are you starting to see some

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Speaker 1: positive results from that at all yet? Well, I'll tell

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Speaker 1: you that the places that did get logged, right, there

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Speaker 1: was more sunshine that is allowed to hit the forest floor.

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Speaker 1: The tree tops are still there, and around the tree, uh,

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Speaker 1: tree tops grew all these smaller trees grew all these

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Speaker 1: um you know, because they didn't clean it out like

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Speaker 1: a guy would if he was actually managing for deer. Right,

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Speaker 1: they chopped down the tree, They left the tops, and

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Speaker 1: they pulled the trunk out. That's really all they did. Right.

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Speaker 1: But the places where they did that and knocked down

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Speaker 1: in the sunlight can get in. It is s thick

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Speaker 1: and it is nasty, and it's not in any specific spot. Right.

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Speaker 1: So like if me and you were gonna go into

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Speaker 1: a timber, we would want to do it in specific areas, right,

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Speaker 1: So all they did was go into where the valued

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Speaker 1: trees were at and cut down the valued trees, right,

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Speaker 1: So maybe it's not in the best possible place for

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Speaker 1: a quote unquote betting area. However, it is sticker and

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Speaker 1: it does allow more cover, uh and lower brows for

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Speaker 1: the deer. Did you have you seen increased deer activity

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Speaker 1: around those spots at all last year or previous years? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I'm gonna say yes with an asterisk, because i

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Speaker 1: feel like the deer we're still moving through that area.

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Speaker 1: Maybe they just slowed down a little bit because there

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Speaker 1: was some brows there that wasn't there before. Okay, okay,

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Speaker 1: Well to your point, then it would be nice if

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Speaker 1: you could supplement that then with a little bit more

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Speaker 1: targeted spots. And so you're thinking maybe of increasing the

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Speaker 1: cover available in spots that deer already want to bed.

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Speaker 1: It's like a ridge top or something like that. Is

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Speaker 1: that kind of yeah, something something a little bit off

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Speaker 1: the top of the ridge, right and create So there's

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Speaker 1: one specific spot on the farm where there's a pinch

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Speaker 1: point and then there's a diagonal trail up the ridge.

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Speaker 1: You know that doesn't crush the ridge, but it kind

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Speaker 1: of goes up at an angle to the point and

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Speaker 1: then back down the other side. So imagine like a

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Speaker 1: upside down you and uh kind of a line going

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Speaker 1: right through the center of it, and that's that trail.

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Speaker 1: I would love to do some kind of hinge cutting

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Speaker 1: on either side of that trail and maybe make that

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Speaker 1: kind of like a betting area, but at the same

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Speaker 1: time a an edge if you know what I mean

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Speaker 1: to where the deer because we all know dear love

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Speaker 1: working edges, and if I could create a little bit

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Speaker 1: more edge where the wide open meats the thickness, then

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Speaker 1: I feel I can even make that pinge point stronger. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that seems to make a lot of sense. That's that's

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Speaker 1: a huge, a huge upside of when you can do

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Speaker 1: some small cuts like that, like you said, add that

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Speaker 1: transition that edge, and you can start directing traffic through

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Speaker 1: an area in a way that you otherwise wouldn't have.

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Speaker 1: And I kind of, you know, with some small hinge

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Speaker 1: cutting of my own on one of the properties at

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Speaker 1: Hunt in Michigan. I mean, not a large area, probably

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Speaker 1: I don't know, an acre maybe maybe an acre kind

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Speaker 1: of long, skinny area where I did some some kind

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Speaker 1: of selective hinge cutting through their handful of years ago. Now,

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Speaker 1: UM made what's possibly one of the best betting areas

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Speaker 1: now on one of these properties that I hunt in Michigan.

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Speaker 1: It went from being a spot that I never hunted

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Speaker 1: to now being at least in the top two areas

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Speaker 1: for me to hunt during the rut. It's like the

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Speaker 1: main place I'm saving to hunt during the right now

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Speaker 1: because so many bucks are cruising through there, because that

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Speaker 1: little betting area is holding a couple of Doll family

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Speaker 1: groups now and at least one Doll family group, possibly

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Speaker 1: two on one on either side, and you're always getting

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Speaker 1: bucks cruising through there. And it just took you know,

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Speaker 1: an afternoon with a chainsaw cutting a handful of trees

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Speaker 1: and I even bumped up a nice buck out of

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Speaker 1: there this summer um. So yeah, it's it's an easy

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Speaker 1: way to do some cool stuff. So that's exciting that

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Speaker 1: you might be able to test the water to the right.

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Speaker 1: And the other the other thing is there's a ridge

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Speaker 1: top right and it leads from one that's like more

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Speaker 1: open spot into it was like an old camp. There's

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Speaker 1: an old camp church camp on this property. And I'm

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Speaker 1: what I mean old, I mean like dilapidated, just the

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Speaker 1: foundations there, and it's called kind of grown up and

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Speaker 1: do your frequent this spot as a transition I kind

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Speaker 1: of a transition area between betting and a big egg field.

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Speaker 1: And there's this really big giant tree in there with

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Speaker 1: a huge canopy, right, So what I would love to

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Speaker 1: do and it underneath this canopy like nothing grows, right,

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Speaker 1: There's there's some smaller stuff in there. But what I

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Speaker 1: would love to do is basically clear out an area

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Speaker 1: and plant some kind of kill plot, right, something that's

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Speaker 1: like an acre. That's it, Just something maybe even smaller

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Speaker 1: than that, real small and have the ability to get

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Speaker 1: something to slow down coming through this or maybe go

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Speaker 1: out of their way off the original trail, come ups

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Speaker 1: and check it on their way to main egg And

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Speaker 1: I feel that this spot would be money if I

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Speaker 1: could just trim one big branch off of this this big,

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Speaker 1: bigger tree and knocked down a couple other trees on

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Speaker 1: the edge, letting some more addition, some additional sunlight in.

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Speaker 1: If I could do that, man, another money spot, man,

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Speaker 1: that would be that would be nice. Speaking of those

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Speaker 1: little food plots, I was just working on a little

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Speaker 1: food plot project to my own this past week. Um.

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Speaker 1: Two things of note with that one that we never

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Speaker 1: talked about. But um, the first than did is I've

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Speaker 1: got this main food plot system on my main Michigan

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Speaker 1: property that we've talked about a lot over the years,

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Speaker 1: you know, the spot where I talked about holy Field

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Speaker 1: a lot, trying to kind of fine tune this spot

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Speaker 1: for him. Um, and then ultimately that's where I killed

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Speaker 1: Frank this past year. Uh. Two things. Number one, I

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Speaker 1: frost seated this last week. Familiar with frost eating if

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Speaker 1: you heard that, yea? So so for those who aren't familiar,

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Speaker 1: this is basically a way too to kind of supplement

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Speaker 1: a food plot, or to plant a new food plot

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Speaker 1: without needing to disc or till up an area. So basically,

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Speaker 1: in my situation, I'm just trying to um to kinda

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Speaker 1: what's the word I'm looking here, strengthen a food plot

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Speaker 1: that's been here for a long time. This is a

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Speaker 1: perennial clover food plot that I've had planted in this

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Speaker 1: spot for I don't know, six seven years now. Um,

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Speaker 1: But it's it's it's getting a little bit patchy. There's

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Speaker 1: a bunch of weeds coming in area, so I want

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Speaker 1: to try to fill it out, and I'm doing that

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Speaker 1: by overseating it right now, So this past week we're

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Speaker 1: still frozen ground, but it was going to be thawing

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Speaker 1: out here and get some brain and that was gonna

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Speaker 1: freeze again with some cold nights. It was gonna thought again.

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Speaker 1: And when that happens, if you have seed that you

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Speaker 1: put on top of the ground at this time, as

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Speaker 1: that freeze and thought freeze and thoughts cycle goes back

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Speaker 1: and forth, it kind of heaves and then lowers the

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Speaker 1: soil and soil heaves and then it sinks back down

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Speaker 1: again and that kind of sucks the soil down in

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Speaker 1: incorporate rates it into the soil itself, allowing you get

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Speaker 1: the seed to soil contact you need for those seeds

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Speaker 1: to German name. Um. So it was the simplest going

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Speaker 1: out there and broadcasting the seed over top of the

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Speaker 1: plot and that was it. That's all I had to

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Speaker 1: do to kind of replant this food plot and make it,

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Speaker 1: you know, really nice and lush and thick again. So

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Speaker 1: that was a really easy thing I did. I think

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Speaker 1: it was, I don't know, Wednesday or Thursday this past week.

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Speaker 1: Took me fifteen minutes um. And now that plot is

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Speaker 1: going to be in great shape. This year, I think,

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Speaker 1: But while I was out there, I had kind of

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Speaker 1: an aha moment, dan Um. I was finishing up that plot,

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Speaker 1: and then I looked over to the larger sections. So

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you if you remember, but basically

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Speaker 1: this this plot has his kind of two sections. There's

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Speaker 1: a little clover plot. If you imagine this is like

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Speaker 1: a imagine a pie and you take a quarter of

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Speaker 1: the pie outs you got a quarter piece of the

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Speaker 1: pie missing. That is this food plot, and the at

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Speaker 1: the center of the pie, So the narrowest end of

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Speaker 1: that triangle on my pie piece, that's where the clover

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Speaker 1: plot is. So they got a small, like quarter acre

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Speaker 1: clover there, and then there's a strip of big thick

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Speaker 1: grass that kind of just circles it. And then the

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Speaker 1: rest of the pie piece, so the main portion of

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Speaker 1: the pipe piece extending out to the crust. That is

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Speaker 1: the larger piece of the food plot, which is my

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Speaker 1: brassicas and my oats, which I've used here for four

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Speaker 1: or five years and I rotate them in strips um.

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Speaker 1: So that's what I had planet there. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if you again these little details. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: you remember this either, but last year I made one

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Speaker 1: significant shift to that plot. What I did in the

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Speaker 1: past was that oat and brassica section of the plot

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Speaker 1: that was planted almost right up to the edge of

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Speaker 1: the property line, right up close to it. I was

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Speaker 1: trying to maximize as much food as I get in there.

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Speaker 1: But as you probably recall from the past two years

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Speaker 1: of hunting holy Field, I had numerous encounters where he

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Speaker 1: would kind of get to the edge of it, but

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Speaker 1: would stay on the neighbors and wouldn't cross over into

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Speaker 1: the food plot where I could shoot. Remember, I had

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Speaker 1: a bunch of situations like that. Yeah, I didn't want

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Speaker 1: to step out into the open. So in two thousand eighteen,

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Speaker 1: I thought, well, what if I were to just push

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Speaker 1: the food plot further into my property and then what

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Speaker 1: used to be food plot just let that regrow up

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Speaker 1: into tall grass and brush and brambles and have that

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Speaker 1: cover but on my side. So maybe holy Field or

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Speaker 1: whatever future buck is in here, maybe he would still

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Speaker 1: come into the cover, but it would now be on

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Speaker 1: my property, So he would come in twenty yards onto

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Speaker 1: my side of the property that I could shoot him,

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Speaker 1: but he's not into the wide open where he didn't

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Speaker 1: want to go yet. You know what I mean. So

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Speaker 1: I made that change last year, and then I didn't

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Speaker 1: really think anything about it. The rest of the year.

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Speaker 1: Holy Field disappeared, you know, how the whole thing went.

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Speaker 1: But as I was sitting out there the other day,

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Speaker 1: I'm looking at this and kind of looking around and fiddling,

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Speaker 1: and I got to thinking, WHOA, if I hadn't made

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Speaker 1: that change, if I hadn't pushed that food plot out

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Speaker 1: and let all that cover girl up, I don't know

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Speaker 1: if I would have got the shot at Frank, because

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Speaker 1: Frank came out into that area but stayed inside the

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Speaker 1: tall grass that was not there in two thousand seventeen.

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Speaker 1: But in two thousand eighteen he was able to be

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Speaker 1: on my side of the line, but in the tall

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Speaker 1: grass he felt comfortable stepping out there, walked yards onto

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Speaker 1: my side of the line, and I got the shot. Um.

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Speaker 1: So that was kind of like a lightbulb moment, like Wow,

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Speaker 1: there's an example of one tiny tweak. I made, one

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Speaker 1: small change, um that I made for holy Field. But

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Speaker 1: in this case, you know, that small tweak ended up

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Speaker 1: leading to getting a shot at this other buck. Um. Right,

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Speaker 1: I don't think that's something I brought up in the past,

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Speaker 1: and it kind of hit me again. Yeah, I remember

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Speaker 1: you talking about it, but I also remember past guests

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Speaker 1: on the show talking about softening edges. Right, So when

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Speaker 1: they take a hard edge, like a straight egg field

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Speaker 1: onto a timber right the deer, if there's ever like

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Speaker 1: a buffer strip or something like that, it's almost like

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Speaker 1: they seemed comfortable coming out in the wide open before

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Speaker 1: they hit the main egg. So what they'll do is

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Speaker 1: they'll cut trees down and they'll lay them right in

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Speaker 1: that hard edge. And then what that does is the

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Speaker 1: grass grows up, softens it up, so there's a little

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Speaker 1: bit more of a staging area between this wide open

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Speaker 1: bare ground. And uh yeah, you hear him talk about

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Speaker 1: it all the time, so it's no doubt it worked, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was. It was cool to see that fleshed out

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Speaker 1: and actually come into reality. Um. And another one of

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Speaker 1: those reasons why when you have the ability to do

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Speaker 1: some habitat stuff, it is cool to be able to,

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Speaker 1: you know, move a chess piece one spot and then

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Speaker 1: wait and see how it changes things. And in this case,

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Speaker 1: it was a chess piece that's moves to the right

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Speaker 1: spot and made a what was a small change made

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Speaker 1: a big difference, I think now and I'm now that

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Speaker 1: i'm thinking back on it more so, Yeah, do you

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Speaker 1: have any other Do you have any other big spring

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00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:51,920
Speaker 1: projects coming up for your hunts other than possibly trying

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Speaker 1: to get that plot and possibly doing some some timber. Yeah, so,

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Speaker 1: so the plot is probably not gonna happen, but potentially

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Speaker 1: the timber. Uh, some of the tree trimming might happen.

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Speaker 1: And unfortunately, I don't think it can happen until the

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Speaker 1: because I'd love to do it, get out there and

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Speaker 1: do it right now, but I just don't think it's

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Speaker 1: going to be able to happen until April. If it

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00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:16,679
Speaker 1: does happen, and I still have to clear it with

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00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:20,639
Speaker 1: her and um, you know, the landowner, and she's she

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00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:24,120
Speaker 1: probably has to run it by her family, you know. Uh.

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Speaker 1: So I don't think I'm gonna like I'm optimistic, because

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00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:32,600
Speaker 1: she's pretty cool with me doing whatever I want out there. However,

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00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,399
Speaker 1: when it comes to like lay manipulation, um, you know,

340
00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:40,080
Speaker 1: they just want to make sure they're there, their investment

341
00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:43,399
Speaker 1: of their property is producing long term and they you know,

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00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:45,440
Speaker 1: they don't want me to cut down any trees that make,

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00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:49,920
Speaker 1: you know, get them some value later on down the line. Yeah. Yeah,

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00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,080
Speaker 1: um so if you're not doing that kind of stuff yet,

345
00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:55,200
Speaker 1: you are shed hunting though, right. We haven't talked since

346
00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:57,360
Speaker 1: shed Rally. Look like you guys had a good day

347
00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:59,920
Speaker 1: there on the Sunday of shed Rally, is that right? Yeah,

348
00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,840
Speaker 1: A couple of people had some good days. Uh. I

349
00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:05,879
Speaker 1: found one I found. I ended up finding one antler

350
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:08,440
Speaker 1: on shed Ralley and it was something fairly small. So

351
00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,800
Speaker 1: I let Ben Harshine's boy Jack. I dropped it on

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00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:14,920
Speaker 1: a trail and then I told Ben and his wife

353
00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:16,600
Speaker 1: would go, hey, I dropped a shed up there. Take

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00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:19,320
Speaker 1: take their son Jack, right, I said, take him up there,

355
00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:21,960
Speaker 1: walk up this trail, and he ended up finding it again.

356
00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:25,680
Speaker 1: So I walked away. I walked away with zero antlers,

357
00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:28,920
Speaker 1: found one, but overall, you know, had some fun with

358
00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:32,119
Speaker 1: that crew that was there, and some other guys walked

359
00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:34,960
Speaker 1: away with quite a few sheds and uh one big

360
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:38,240
Speaker 1: four point side just a hammer of an antler and

361
00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:41,760
Speaker 1: uh like real long main beam, real long, you know,

362
00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:45,000
Speaker 1: no junk on it. But other than that, you know,

363
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:49,200
Speaker 1: this entire shed season has been crazy. I mean up

364
00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:51,880
Speaker 1: where I live, there's still snow in the timber, right,

365
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:55,760
Speaker 1: and uh, if if it's open, I'm sure people have

366
00:18:55,880 --> 00:19:01,360
Speaker 1: walked it, and that with the fertilizer on the properties

367
00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:04,760
Speaker 1: and high water on the river bottoms, all my spots

368
00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:08,760
Speaker 1: just didn't produce this year. And so I I just

369
00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:12,520
Speaker 1: I shed hunted lesson. I'm okay with that because I'm busy. Yeah,

370
00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:15,720
Speaker 1: I saw you, Um you posted this was a couple

371
00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:17,440
Speaker 1: of weeks ago. I don't think I mentioned it on

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00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:20,440
Speaker 1: the podcast, but a couple of weeks ago you uh

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00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:23,120
Speaker 1: did a little Instagram video talking about how you went

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00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:25,359
Speaker 1: out and you didn't find any sheds at all, and

375
00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:27,840
Speaker 1: you said that that was the first time in like

376
00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:30,760
Speaker 1: two or three or four years, the first time in

377
00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,280
Speaker 1: years that you've gone out shed hunting and not found

378
00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:37,000
Speaker 1: an antler. Yeah, it was nuts, man. I I can

379
00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:40,760
Speaker 1: every time that I go out right now, I remember

380
00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:44,520
Speaker 1: I've refined these spots two points where Okay, if I

381
00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:46,880
Speaker 1: if I've shed hunting a place five or six years

382
00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:50,000
Speaker 1: in a row and it doesn't produce, more than likely

383
00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:52,320
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna go walk that piece anymore because of

384
00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:54,520
Speaker 1: the limited time that i have. Right So, I'm going

385
00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:58,439
Speaker 1: to my high production spots. I'm going to the buffer strips,

386
00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:01,320
Speaker 1: the water ways, you know, the the betting areas and

387
00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:04,399
Speaker 1: like some egg fields and stuff, and if they don't produce,

388
00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:07,199
Speaker 1: I'm not going into the timber looking for him, especially

389
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:10,840
Speaker 1: this year with just the large amount of snow and

390
00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:15,440
Speaker 1: the water that we've had. So it's the first time

391
00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:17,680
Speaker 1: in a while where I went to some of these

392
00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:22,840
Speaker 1: spots and there was no sheds there and I was like, WHOA.

393
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,199
Speaker 1: So I I was driving back home and I was

394
00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:27,440
Speaker 1: thinking about I was like, man, that's gotta be two

395
00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:31,520
Speaker 1: years of shed hunting that I It's like I got

396
00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:35,880
Speaker 1: skunked that day, right, And I mean me get skunked.

397
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:38,359
Speaker 1: I'm not saying like going out with you know when

398
00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:40,720
Speaker 1: the last time that we went up with that whole

399
00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:46,359
Speaker 1: crew in northeast Iowa. Um that I I personally didn't

400
00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:48,560
Speaker 1: find a shed, but the crew did. I count I

401
00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,879
Speaker 1: count that as a win. But me personally, running on

402
00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:54,640
Speaker 1: a solo mission, I didn't. I didn't find a shed.

403
00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,760
Speaker 1: So it was it was nuts. Yeah. And when I

404
00:20:57,800 --> 00:20:59,920
Speaker 1: heard you say that on your Instagram story, I just

405
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,360
Speaker 1: thought to myself, there's millions of people out there who

406
00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:06,760
Speaker 1: don't have one ounce of sympathy for you. Damn right.

407
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:10,160
Speaker 1: I know. I'm thinking of my head man. He has

408
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:13,240
Speaker 1: gone two years without going out once without finding one,

409
00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:18,000
Speaker 1: and I thought to myself, nine times shed hunting, I

410
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:22,000
Speaker 1: don't find anything so right. But when I say that

411
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:24,960
Speaker 1: is because I mean back in the day, I would

412
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:28,760
Speaker 1: go four days, five days without finding a shed, right,

413
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,040
Speaker 1: and then run into a pocket of them, and you know,

414
00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:34,479
Speaker 1: find a whole bunch of sheds. Uh. And now I

415
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:37,760
Speaker 1: just don't go shed hunting in the I guess the

416
00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:42,080
Speaker 1: lower the lower statistic areas. I guess is, if that's

417
00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:44,040
Speaker 1: what you want to say, right, the chances of me

418
00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:46,600
Speaker 1: finding a shed where I go shed hunting are higher.

419
00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:50,600
Speaker 1: Smarts work historically the deer of ben So it looked

420
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:55,359
Speaker 1: like you sorry. The cool thing is, though, what was

421
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:58,760
Speaker 1: it Saturday morning? Right? Like we hadn't had sunshine here

422
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:02,080
Speaker 1: in Iowa for a while. Saturday morning was gorgeous and

423
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:03,879
Speaker 1: I wanted to get my kids out of the house,

424
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:07,440
Speaker 1: my my son and daughter, and we ended up going

425
00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:11,520
Speaker 1: on a And I'm using my quotations right, my one

426
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:13,720
Speaker 1: good hand in my one bad hand, So it looks

427
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:20,360
Speaker 1: like a quote in a comma or apostrophe. And uh,

428
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,720
Speaker 1: so I took I grabbed two sheds out of my

429
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:27,320
Speaker 1: like my smaller shed pile, and uh, I ended up

430
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:32,040
Speaker 1: I ended up taking my uh my oldest boy and

431
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:35,719
Speaker 1: my daughter out and uh we went out in this cornfield,

432
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,400
Speaker 1: walked around and I dropped two sheds out and they

433
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:40,879
Speaker 1: they found him and they were pretty jackman, it was

434
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,719
Speaker 1: pretty fun doing that. The pictures, that was awesome. Well

435
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,720
Speaker 1: how did how did Mac react when he picked that up? Uh?

436
00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:51,000
Speaker 1: So have you ever seen like the only thing that

437
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:55,240
Speaker 1: I can remember, like is like a superhero. I'll just

438
00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:58,879
Speaker 1: use the Incredible Hulk right where he stops and this

439
00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:04,199
Speaker 1: like this, his face twitches and he gets like that. Like.

440
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 1: So we're in this little grassy area and I was like, okay, buddy,

441
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:10,919
Speaker 1: it's in here somewhere. I just know it, right, And

442
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:12,840
Speaker 1: obviously I dropped it out of my coat, so I

443
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:16,040
Speaker 1: know it's there. And both times I dropped the sheds

444
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:20,320
Speaker 1: out of the coat, they landed times down, so so

445
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 1: it's not like they stood out right. It looked like

446
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:27,200
Speaker 1: a a stock of corn. So he's walking around, he's

447
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:30,040
Speaker 1: walking around, and finally I go, buddy, you gotta look

448
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:32,280
Speaker 1: at the ground. Because every time a bird would sound

449
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 1: off or like the geese would fly overhead. He's looking

450
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,920
Speaker 1: in the air right. Finally I put him on the line.

451
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,439
Speaker 1: I said, walk straight, there's gotta be one here somewhere.

452
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,120
Speaker 1: I just have a good feeling, buddy. He runs walks

453
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 1: up to it, and he's just like Dad, Dad, I

454
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 1: found one. Oh, he was jackman. He was Jack, and

455
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,399
Speaker 1: he was Jack for about five minutes, ten minutes, you know.

456
00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:59,920
Speaker 1: And I got a couple of pictures out of the deal,

457
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,439
Speaker 1: and he ended up he ended up happy. But you

458
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:05,680
Speaker 1: know how kids are, right, they lose interest real fast.

459
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,399
Speaker 1: So instead instead of him scooping every five minutes, I

460
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 1: only brought one out when I probably should have brought

461
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 1: more than one out. But I did the same thing

462
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:16,720
Speaker 1: with my daughter, and she she kicked it with her

463
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:20,919
Speaker 1: boot like two times before. Every time she walked up

464
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 1: to it, she'd kick it. And then obviously she knows

465
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:26,359
Speaker 1: more than me, right, So she's like, Dad, we've covered

466
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 1: this area. There's no sheds here. I'm just like, sweetie,

467
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,119
Speaker 1: and I'm talking about that, like a fifty ft grass

468
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,199
Speaker 1: strip that's two ft wide along the side of this cornfield.

469
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:39,879
Speaker 1: And so she's walking up and down and she finds it.

470
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 1: She's like Dad, I got one, she got all she

471
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:46,359
Speaker 1: got all excited, and you know, it was something. It

472
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 1: was something forty five minutes is all it was, from

473
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 1: the time we got there, got out of the truck,

474
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 1: got back in the truck forty five minutes. But what

475
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,399
Speaker 1: I feel that did right there, They're obviously not ready

476
00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:01,880
Speaker 1: for a four hour shed hunt, right, So I feel

477
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:05,440
Speaker 1: what that did was that just small, very small piece

478
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 1: of it at a time, getting interested and then maybe

479
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 1: the next time we go out for a little bit longer,

480
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: and maybe the next time I don't put any sheds down,

481
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 1: and we teach them about patients, right, yeah, And you know,

482
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,880
Speaker 1: and just getting them outside is so important and I'm

483
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 1: learning that now, right. And the mud was there, and

484
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 1: they got dirty, and I had to do some extra things, right,

485
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 1: I had to make sure that they had their gloves

486
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,480
Speaker 1: and their stocking caps and their boots on. And the

487
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 1: back of my truck got dirty because they you know,

488
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 1: they were kicking the back of the seats after they're

489
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 1: stopping in mud. But I really didn't care because I

490
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:41,920
Speaker 1: had a blast. I had just as much fun with them.

491
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 1: And even though those sheds were stayed staged, right, I

492
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:48,120
Speaker 1: had I had an absolute blast just being out there

493
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:51,360
Speaker 1: and watching their actions. Yeah, you can't, you can't beat that.

494
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 1: I uh, I know what you mean. I'm just starting,

495
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 1: you know, to get Everett out there doing those things.

496
00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 1: And he can walk now, so now that's not so

497
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 1: miserably cold and the snows melted. I've been taking him

498
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 1: out into the woods now and just letting him kind

499
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 1: of walk around out there and explore. I guess the

500
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 1: walk around is a stretchy. It's more like he will

501
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 1: just stand there. He's a little nervous to walk in

502
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,919
Speaker 1: the forest for he's just not like comfortable with the

503
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 1: uneven ground, I think, and everything. So it takes him

504
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:21,639
Speaker 1: a long time to get going. And then sometimes if

505
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 1: I hold his hand, then he'll start walking. And once

506
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 1: he builds a little confidence, then he'll then he'll go

507
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 1: slowly on his own. But you know, he's picking up

508
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,400
Speaker 1: every leaf. He's pointing at a tree and he says,

509
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 1: what's that, what's that? Um? He's grabbing every bush. He

510
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:38,639
Speaker 1: brought him up to big rubs and let him like

511
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 1: pull out the bark or the you know, the ripped

512
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,719
Speaker 1: up tree bark shredded off of the rubs. He's grabbing that. Um,

513
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 1: So that that's fun. And uh, I think by next

514
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: year and maybe even I'll take him out here in

515
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 1: the next couple of days or something and just put

516
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:55,920
Speaker 1: an antler out there and let him grab it, because

517
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:58,119
Speaker 1: I know he doesn't really know what's going on, but

518
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,159
Speaker 1: he does. He does have like a fascinating one of

519
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:02,919
Speaker 1: the antlers because you know, in my my kind of

520
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 1: man cave room with all the bucks on the wall

521
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 1: and stuff, he comes in there and he points every

522
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,199
Speaker 1: one of them and he says buck, and then he

523
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 1: goes over the table where I've got just a bunch

524
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 1: of antlers and a big pile, and he's always trying

525
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 1: to grab him. Um. So I'm sure if he saw well,

526
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,159
Speaker 1: I think if he saw one in the woods right

527
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,160
Speaker 1: and from him, he'd pick it up and get excited. Maybe.

528
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:22,880
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think on the test that theory here

529
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:25,879
Speaker 1: soon because that would be cool to see. Yeah, and

530
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,639
Speaker 1: they wanted to. Like my my daughter, if it was

531
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:30,879
Speaker 1: just her, I probably would have gotten away with getting

532
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,359
Speaker 1: into the timber a little bit more. But my son,

533
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:37,439
Speaker 1: you know, he's still fairly short, and we didn't have

534
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:39,639
Speaker 1: the kind of coats and you know, you know, like

535
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 1: how the first ten of a field ed jar they're

536
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:47,920
Speaker 1: just briars and thorns, and uh so we I was like,

537
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 1: all right, let's go in the timber. And I turned

538
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 1: around and they're stuck in the thorns, right, And so

539
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 1: I had to say, Okay, well we can't go in

540
00:27:54,680 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: there because of the thorns, and uh you know next time, right, yeah,

541
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 1: something you can getting early in there. I didn't think

542
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 1: about that with God. It's like anywhere you want to

543
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 1: get to look for sheds, almost always you have to

544
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:08,920
Speaker 1: go through some serious prickers. In our neck of the woods,

545
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:14,399
Speaker 1: at least Iowa and Michigan's brutal. But but I guess,

546
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 1: I guess this is probably in a bad place for

547
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:18,360
Speaker 1: us to wrap it up, get to talking with our

548
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 1: main guests about trees and forestry and and all that

549
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:26,880
Speaker 1: kind of interesting stuff. And um, maybe about next episode

550
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 1: we'll finally have some sheds, because I've had a horrible

551
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 1: shed hunting. Your total to how many do you have

552
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 1: so far? This I only found two so far this year. Okay,

553
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 1: well I'm actually I'm actually ahead of you. Then I found, um,

554
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 1: I found five total. Nothing nothing remotely large or nice,

555
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 1: but um, but five sheds. Two of which were super old,

556
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 1: two were really small, and one was a little four

557
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 1: point side. Um, but I am still trying to trying

558
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 1: to get that Montana shed hunting trip in on one

559
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 1: of these next work trips, I go on, So might

560
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 1: that might bring the total up. But but yeah, let's uh,

561
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 1: let's plan catching up soon on some other topics and

562
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 1: uh finding a few antlers before then. Huh sounds good man.

563
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 1: All right, let's take a quick break. All right, I've

564
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 1: got now with me Matt Ross and Tim Russell, and

565
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 1: let's start with you. Matt, you're a repeat guest on

566
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 1: the podcast. Always love getting to chat with you usually. Um,

567
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 1: I'm talking to you from the perspective of of your

568
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 1: main role, which I think is is oh gosh, associate

569
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 1: director of conservation. Is that right? Pretty close assistant? Okay,

570
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: so talking all things quality dear management. Um, but I've

571
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: never taken a deep dive with you on this topic

572
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 1: of forestry, but I know you've got a background it

573
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 1: can you can you hit us off here with a

574
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 1: quick background as far as what you're what your history

575
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 1: is with with Forrester in this specific topic. Yeah, my pleasure,

576
00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 1: Mark and and always like being on a show. So

577
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 1: for thanks UH, you know in the lead here for

578
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 1: having me back, and also were including somebody else from

579
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 1: g d M a UM and I was love talking

580
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: about deer and deer on it. So I started out

581
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 1: very interested in wildlife because of deer hunting. And I

582
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 1: know we've covered this in the past, but I went

583
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 1: to school for wildlife UH and really focused on deer UM.

584
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 1: When I was in graduate school in New Hampshire UM,

585
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 1: I started doing a little bit more with the forestry

586
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 1: side of things I did. I had a degree in wildlife,

587
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 1: but I taught forestry class several forestry class related to

588
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 1: my my thesis because of what I was researching and UM.

589
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 1: At one point when I graduated, I was looking for

590
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 1: a job and my initial job right out of graduate

591
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:54,240
Speaker 1: school was working for a consulting company UM in New

592
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 1: Hampshire covered New Hampshire, Maine UM, and most of what

593
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 1: that company did was forestry worked. I was hired as

594
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:04,720
Speaker 1: the wildlife biologists on staff to to write prescriptions into

595
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 1: the management plans related to to wildlife UH type of

596
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 1: goals and I was there for for quite a bit

597
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 1: of time and long enough that UM I had a

598
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 1: lot of experience working with landowners and loggers and and

599
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 1: UH towns for doing the management on side of things,

600
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 1: and UH eventually started to go more on the forestry

601
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 1: side in terms of what the company was having me do.

602
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 1: And by the time I was done working there, I

603
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 1: had become licensed as a forester, I was marking timber um,

604
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 1: I was working with Cruise on actual sivilcultural prescriptions along

605
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 1: with the wildlife side of things, and UH that was

606
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 1: really kind of a trial by fire for me from

607
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 1: the wildlife side of things where I really was interested

608
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 1: in dear and dear management and wildlife. And I realized

609
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 1: on all of the properties that I had worked on

610
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 1: while I was there at the consulting of me that

611
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 1: UH forestry, mostly because that part of the world is

612
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 1: dominated by forest Maine in New Hampshire as the most

613
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 1: forested seats in the country by land mass, UM really

614
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 1: was driving wildlife populations what foresters did. So I really

615
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 1: loved it, and UH did a lot in the forestry community,

616
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:29,719
Speaker 1: and then eventually left that job and found myself at

617
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 1: qd m A. So I am licensed as a forester

618
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 1: and have done a lot of forestry prescriptions. Even though

619
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 1: I was driven by deer to to begin with. Okay,

620
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 1: and so, so Tim, what about you? What's what's your story? So? Uh,

621
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 1: I grew up spending a lot of time in the

622
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 1: out of doors, and I didn't have the opportunity to

623
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 1: hunt when I was younger, which is something that has

624
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 1: changed now that I'm adult. Now that I'm an adult,

625
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 1: and something I'm very happy about. I loved being outdoors.

626
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 1: I knew I wanted to work outdoors, and so I

627
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 1: went to school and in Syracuse to h Too sun

628
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 1: ees F to study forestry, where I got my degree

629
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 1: in forest resources Management. After school, I spent a few

630
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 1: years working for a couple of different forestry consulting firms,

631
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 1: doing timber inventories, assisting with forest management plans, UH, that

632
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 1: sort of thing. And UH, one day I saw a

633
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 1: job posting come up that was for q D M

634
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 1: A and they were looking to hire somebody to work

635
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 1: on the Young Forest Initiative. UH. In UH, the Northeastern

636
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 1: United States and much of the United States, we don't

637
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 1: have a lot of young forest cover as we used to,

638
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 1: and so there's sort of an effort to get landowners

639
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 1: involved in creating and maintaining and enhancing young forest on

640
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 1: their properties to benefit wildlife, which seemed like something that

641
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 1: I really wanted to do and that I'd be able

642
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 1: to help with. So, uh today I'm I'm happily with

643
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 1: q d m A. So what does that entail? How

644
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 1: are you actually going about encouraging and partnering with folks

645
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 1: to to encourage that young forest type AVATAH sure well,

646
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 1: part of its outreach to to get people aware. Um

647
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 1: and we have partnerships with other conservation organizations including National

648
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:14,360
Speaker 1: Wild Turkey Federation and Rough Groud Society and National Audubon Society.

649
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: UM And there are several different different groups working under

650
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 1: the umbrella of the the Young Forest Initiative and including

651
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 1: our state's Department of Environmental Conservation. But there is funding

652
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:30,400
Speaker 1: through the Natural Resources Conservation Service through their Environmental Quality

653
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 1: Incentives Program EQUIP that a lot a lot of folks

654
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 1: are probably familiar with where they've they've got some funding

655
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 1: put aside just to just to help fund those sorts

656
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 1: of projects that can uh you know, range from uh

657
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 1: heavy density cuttings to to get young forest growing into

658
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 1: in phase of plan control to make sure that plans

659
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 1: we don't want don't come to to overtake some of

660
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 1: these sites. Uh. So it's there are a lot of

661
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 1: different partners in this effort, and uh, certainly there are

662
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:03,360
Speaker 1: a lot of benefits to the landowners who are interested

663
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,719
Speaker 1: in in joining in. I definitely want to dive in

664
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 1: further into that a little bit later. And and you

665
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:12,359
Speaker 1: mentioned some of the government programs, assistance programs. That's something

666
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 1: I'm definitely curious about too, but probably before we go

667
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 1: down that rabbit hole. UM, I want to just kind

668
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 1: of lay a foundation here for folks. UM and maybe Matt,

669
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:24,880
Speaker 1: maybe you want to tackle this first. Uh, why does

670
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 1: this matter? Why does why does forestry matter for deer hunters?

671
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 1: And maybe maybe even take it one step back further.

672
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 1: What is forestry? And then why does this matter for

673
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:38,879
Speaker 1: for deer hunters? Sure, yeah, I'm happy to jump into

674
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 1: that's a big topic. But um, forest give me your

675
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 1: elevator pitch. Yeah, okay. Well, forest management is is a

676
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:54,440
Speaker 1: way or that we as natural resource managers, landowners and

677
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:59,800
Speaker 1: just the public managing private and public lands can steer

678
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 1: direction of and the health of a forest. Um. So

679
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 1: it's based on making decisions on how many trees to

680
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:14,360
Speaker 1: either keep or leave a keep or removed. Um, sunlight

681
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 1: to let in. It's a very predictable thing. Uh, forest,

682
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 1: forest management, you can actually predict what will show up. Now, Mark,

683
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 1: do you have you and your wife have a garden

684
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: garden at all? Yeah, we didn't pull it off this

685
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 1: last year, but usually we have a garden. Yeah, I'm

686
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 1: sure I know why. So Uh yeah, guarden gardeners are everywhere, right,

687
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 1: And it takes time. Uh, that's what a forest takes it.

688
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 1: It needs time. And to get a good crop in

689
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 1: your garden or even a farmer would need, you need

690
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,319
Speaker 1: to make sure that things are well spaced. Right. So,

691
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 1: if you were to go out to the store the

692
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:52,760
Speaker 1: spring and wanted to put um, you know, tomatoes, pepper

693
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:54,759
Speaker 1: and all that stuff in your garden, you bought all

694
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 1: those and instead of putting it in in the same square

695
00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:00,239
Speaker 1: footage that you normally do, you just lumped every thing

696
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 1: together and it was really close together. The end result

697
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 1: would not be the same as if you gave everything

698
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 1: in the space and the nutrients that it needs. A

699
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:12,279
Speaker 1: forest is basically a guarden. It's a big crop and

700
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:15,880
Speaker 1: as long as you can give good space to the

701
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 1: tree so that they can grow and grow straight, especially

702
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,479
Speaker 1: if you're if you're interested in timber management, getting nice

703
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 1: straight trees to grow and the species that show up. UM.

704
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 1: That's also very predictable through succession. UM you can, although

705
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 1: it's a very long timeline and it's hard to uh

706
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 1: to see that if you're not trained in it. And

707
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 1: one of the things I was just talking about a

708
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:39,759
Speaker 1: few minutes ago was my prior experience, and tim has

709
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:42,799
Speaker 1: it as well, is being able to go on properties

710
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 1: that have been managed for ten fifty hundred years. That's

711
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:50,880
Speaker 1: a pretty interesting thing to have as a manager because

712
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:53,240
Speaker 1: it get lets you kind of look back in time

713
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 1: and say, Okay, I know what the managers of this

714
00:37:56,320 --> 00:38:00,359
Speaker 1: property did that time period ago, and say, right, well,

715
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 1: now this is what's growing here. So forestry is that

716
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 1: taking those things of time and and the spacing of

717
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:13,359
Speaker 1: the different trees and altering it so that you can

718
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:16,320
Speaker 1: kind of shift it to what you want to grow there. Now.

719
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 1: For deer hunters, why is that interesting? Uh? And important? Um?

720
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 1: For most deer hunters. Obviously you get into parts of

721
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,840
Speaker 1: the Great Plains and and even parts of the West

722
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 1: where there isn't much of a forest component. But for

723
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 1: most deer populations, particularly white tail populations, they live where

724
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:40,880
Speaker 1: forests grow. They might not be a dominant part of

725
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:44,799
Speaker 1: the landscape, but for most parts of where white tails are,

726
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:48,719
Speaker 1: forests are growing. And honestly, they spend a lot of time,

727
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 1: as we all know as deer hunters in where trees are.

728
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 1: They could be you can call them what you want.

729
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:56,840
Speaker 1: In areas where there's a lot of agg, you know,

730
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 1: ravines or coolies or creek where trees are growing and

731
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 1: shrubs are growing, dear bed in there, they you certainly

732
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:05,879
Speaker 1: eat a lot of stuff in there. We can talk

733
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 1: a little bit about, you know, what they access. But hunters, no,

734
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,280
Speaker 1: that's where you're going, right, That's where betting covered typically

735
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,240
Speaker 1: can be found where forests are in must of the east,

736
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 1: where forest is the dominant um part of the landscape,

737
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 1: certainly dear rely on that for everything where agg is

738
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:28,320
Speaker 1: not a major thing. So by managing forests, we really

739
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 1: manage dear health, dear populations um. And that's kind of

740
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 1: what I alluded to earlier is as this kid coming

741
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:38,879
Speaker 1: out of grad school, I really had driven myself and

742
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 1: what I wanted to go for school is wildlife specific

743
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:45,919
Speaker 1: and deer specific. I realized once I was walking around

744
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 1: these woodlots that foresters were really the ones that were shaping,

745
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 1: at least in New England, you know what dear populations

746
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:59,800
Speaker 1: were looking like. Yes, obviously land managers and deer managers

747
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:02,879
Speaker 1: and the state regulates harvest and that's a big part

748
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 1: of it. It's a huge part of it. But on

749
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:08,759
Speaker 1: the habitat side, UH, you're really missing out if you're

750
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 1: not managing forest for deer um, particularly because they it

751
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 1: makes up such a large component of where they live.

752
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:19,280
Speaker 1: Even in areas where it's dominated by agg they spend

753
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 1: a lot of time where there's cover and trees are

754
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 1: typically Yet if you can manage that to promote good

755
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 1: dear populations where they're getting a lot of food where

756
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:33,319
Speaker 1: they find cover, you can really influence uh a lot

757
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 1: of things with dear dear through forestry. So that's why

758
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 1: it's important. Now, what about for someone who doesn't actually

759
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:43,920
Speaker 1: have the ability to implement changes on a property of

760
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:45,880
Speaker 1: their own. What if there's someone listening who is just

761
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 1: a deer hunter who hunts maybe some public land, maybe

762
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 1: they hunt some private bad permission? Are their concepts related

763
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 1: to this topic that are helpful to understand for any

764
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:58,879
Speaker 1: hunter that might be be applied anywhere. Yeah, I'll touch

765
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 1: on that and I yes absolutely UM and Tim feels

766
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 1: flee free to chime in after, you know, but I

767
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 1: think most again we're a white tail organization. Uh, most

768
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:14,240
Speaker 1: white tail hunting is happening on private land U. Uh.

769
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 1: You know, so if you don't own land, most whitetail

770
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:21,279
Speaker 1: hunters have access to land that's privately owned. Yes, there's

771
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:23,440
Speaker 1: a lot of public land whitetail hunting going on out

772
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:25,800
Speaker 1: there and we should talk about that. But for the

773
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 1: people that don't own land, I would venture a gas

774
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 1: just based on all the statistics out there that most

775
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 1: of them have permission on land that's privately owned. UM.

776
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:39,439
Speaker 1: So that is important um for them for those even

777
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 1: if you don't own those pieces of ground, because you

778
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:45,320
Speaker 1: could do it a couple of ways if that person

779
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 1: that owns the land is willing to let you, you know,

780
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 1: learn or do some habitat management. UM, you can certainly

781
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 1: implement some of the stuff we're talking about. You can

782
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 1: actually be uh knowledgeable about where to find dear on

783
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 1: places that either publicly owned or privately owned, just based

784
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 1: on forestry because obviously influences greatly how dear move UM

785
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 1: and where they're going to be based on recent operations.

786
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:14,920
Speaker 1: If there's a lot of forestry happening where trees are

787
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 1: being removed, it'll influence where deer betting and eating UM.

788
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:19,840
Speaker 1: So you need to be able to read and predict

789
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 1: that just as a deer hunter UM and as well

790
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:28,000
Speaker 1: as you know on other other examples, if you're hunting

791
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:30,879
Speaker 1: public land, UM being able to do the same thing

792
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 1: and tim feel free to to to jump in sure

793
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 1: absolutely UH. You know whether forests are being managed for

794
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 1: timber production or for wildlife or not at all, is

795
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:44,799
Speaker 1: going to have an influence one way or the other

796
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:48,440
Speaker 1: on those wildlife of course, including white tails and UH.

797
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:51,279
Speaker 1: For people who are near and haunts own public land,

798
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 1: I would say, look at what resources are available as

799
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 1: far as information. If you can get your hands on

800
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 1: the management plan for the state or the federal force

801
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 1: that you live near and be able to say, hey,

802
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:05,319
Speaker 1: look this is where a clear cut took place in

803
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:07,880
Speaker 1: the recent past, that there will be good brows in there,

804
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:10,799
Speaker 1: or you know, maybe even more recently, maybe in the

805
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:12,920
Speaker 1: past month or so, that you see a schedule that

806
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 1: there's going to be a thinning, and now you know

807
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 1: that when you're going out in the woods to hunt,

808
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 1: there's gonna be a bunch of tree tops on the

809
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:21,239
Speaker 1: ground in that stand which can be highly attractive to deer.

810
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 1: That that's very valuable information. Apart from that, even those

811
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:28,759
Speaker 1: of us who think of ourselves as not owning land

812
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:32,400
Speaker 1: are are part owners of hundreds of millions of acres

813
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 1: of land as as US citizens. And so it's definitely

814
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:38,840
Speaker 1: our duty to uh to pay attention to what's happening

815
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:41,919
Speaker 1: on those lands and and make our desires known that. Uh,

816
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:43,960
Speaker 1: you know, if if that's the way that we would

817
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 1: like to see the property manage and those that's what

818
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 1: we would like to see as far as the benefits

819
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:51,839
Speaker 1: that we reap off of those public lands, then uh,

820
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:55,360
Speaker 1: it's incumbent upon us to communicate that to the to

821
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 1: the government officials who are in charge of making these

822
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 1: decisions and how those lands are going to be managed. Yeah,

823
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 1: that's a great point that there are ways correct me

824
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:05,759
Speaker 1: from wrong tim but there are ways that we as

825
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:08,720
Speaker 1: the public can influence some of the management that happens

826
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 1: in these places, right. I know, for example, there have

827
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:13,759
Speaker 1: there have been some debates in certain parts of the

828
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 1: United States around you know, managed force versus unmanaged, and

829
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:20,839
Speaker 1: some groups want to keep it untouched um, while other

830
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:23,839
Speaker 1: groups are saying, hey, there's a value to some management here. Um.

831
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:27,319
Speaker 1: That's probably in an instance where we might be able

832
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 1: to you know, be participants within those community meetings or

833
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 1: comment gathering sessions, um, and speak to like the benefits

834
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 1: of that kind of practice. Right, is that correct? Absolutely?

835
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:42,320
Speaker 1: And myself being in New York State where I've spent

836
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:45,640
Speaker 1: all of my life and most of my career, we

837
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 1: actually have very little federal land, but we have a

838
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:51,279
Speaker 1: lot of state land that's managed by our Department of

839
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:55,440
Speaker 1: Environmental Conservation, And as they prepare management plans, they do

840
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:58,759
Speaker 1: hold public meetings where I've had the opportunity to show

841
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 1: up and you know, read management planing before the meeting

842
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:04,480
Speaker 1: and come to the meeting and ask questions and give

843
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:07,279
Speaker 1: suggestions and you know, sort of discussed with the group

844
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:08,799
Speaker 1: what it is we'd like to see off of that

845
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 1: property before they make those final decisions. That's great, Okay,

846
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 1: So so that that will makes a lot of sense.

847
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:17,640
Speaker 1: It's good to know that there are some ways that

848
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 1: we can influence forestry policy, you know, even in situations

849
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:24,120
Speaker 1: where we don't on land, because like you said to him,

850
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 1: we are all public land owners. I think that's a

851
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 1: great point. Um. Now, throughout the first you know, fifteen

852
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 1: minutes or so we've been talking about here, both of

853
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 1: you guys have mentioned a handful of different types of

854
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:38,640
Speaker 1: habitat and a handful of different types of ways of

855
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 1: managing habitat. Um, maybe maybe it'd be helpful to understand

856
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:47,480
Speaker 1: a little bit about what dear need from habitat and

857
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:51,480
Speaker 1: in relation to forest. Um. Matt, could you speak to

858
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:53,239
Speaker 1: this maybe to kick us off a little bit on

859
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 1: you know why different levels of forest habit or different

860
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 1: ages of forest habitat or different management this is why

861
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 1: that's beneficial to deer from from from the standpoint of

862
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:08,919
Speaker 1: what they need biologically. Sure, yeah, happy to so. Uh Well,

863
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 1: deer really can survive in a lot of different places.

864
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:13,279
Speaker 1: We all know that, right. I mean they you can

865
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:17,279
Speaker 1: find them in suburban areas where they're uh trees that

866
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:19,440
Speaker 1: have never been cut, to the places that have been

867
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:23,239
Speaker 1: heavily cut. So in terms of their need, they're very adaptable.

868
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:26,719
Speaker 1: They can live in a lot of different places. Um.

869
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 1: You know what what is ideal, um is places where

870
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:35,319
Speaker 1: within deer at home range the space they use in

871
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 1: a year, they can find all all the things that

872
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:41,880
Speaker 1: they need. Right, So what what they typically will do

873
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 1: on a daily basis of changes seasonally is they are

874
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:49,279
Speaker 1: going there their prey animals and their ruminants, so we

875
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 1: all know that. And because of that, what they do

876
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 1: is they spend most of daylight. In most cases, this

877
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 1: is not everywhere UM have been shown through some research,

878
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:01,520
Speaker 1: but in most cases year will bed during the day

879
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:06,720
Speaker 1: UM during daylight hours, and they're known as fanty term preposcular,

880
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:11,879
Speaker 1: which means they're up and moving around dawn and dusk UM.

881
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:14,960
Speaker 1: So that's why we see deer UH. And most hunters

882
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:16,960
Speaker 1: will try to get out a few hours before dark

883
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 1: UM because that's when they're going to see them, or

884
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 1: they get out there for their morning hunt before the

885
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:25,239
Speaker 1: sun comes up, and you see deer movement those first

886
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:28,799
Speaker 1: few hours of daylight UM. So they bed during the day,

887
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:31,799
Speaker 1: they will walk to a food source or or we'll

888
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:34,759
Speaker 1: try to find a place to eat UM and that's

889
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:37,400
Speaker 1: when they're most active. And then during the middle of

890
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:39,719
Speaker 1: the night, yes they are active and more so than

891
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:41,799
Speaker 1: they are during the middle of the the day, but they

892
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:44,719
Speaker 1: are going to bed down again. So knowing that and

893
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:48,400
Speaker 1: then over the year it's generally the same pattern, although

894
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:51,839
Speaker 1: during the breathing season there there's no more chaos than

895
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:55,239
Speaker 1: what they do, and their home ranges definitely expand they're

896
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:59,400
Speaker 1: much larger because they're seeking breeding opportunities. You want within

897
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:05,040
Speaker 1: a home range of where deer live to have covering food. Um.

898
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:09,200
Speaker 1: If you had basically a dichotomy of a hundreds you know,

899
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:12,439
Speaker 1: hundred acre block of land and food was in one

900
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 1: place and a fifty it across, you know, the lying

901
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 1: right down the middle and there was cover on the

902
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 1: other side, you would be supporting less dear. Then if

903
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:24,400
Speaker 1: you had that same hundred acres and you had it

904
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 1: really diverse where covering food was interspersed with a good

905
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:31,840
Speaker 1: mix of all of these different things. Um, So you

906
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:35,840
Speaker 1: can almost picture it almost like a jigsaw puzzle looking down. Um.

907
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 1: You know, if you're on an aerial like an on

908
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:40,759
Speaker 1: X or Google Earth or Hunt or something like, then

909
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:43,319
Speaker 1: you're looking down. In those environments where there's a nice

910
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 1: mix of food and cover, you will support more gear

911
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:51,399
Speaker 1: and have more opportunities to manage dear than you would

912
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:58,399
Speaker 1: in a place that's less diverse. So from a forestry perspective, um,

913
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:01,799
Speaker 1: it's almost better to start with a blank slate with

914
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:06,520
Speaker 1: a property that has uh, you know, almost a forest,

915
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:09,120
Speaker 1: or even better, something that's got very little forest and

916
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:12,640
Speaker 1: a lot of open space where you could start creating

917
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:16,320
Speaker 1: a place that's diversed. And the reason I say that

918
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:20,759
Speaker 1: is because dear tend to need cover from their very

919
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 1: short animals. I mean they're you know, four ft five

920
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:26,480
Speaker 1: ft tall, um, you know, so from that six foot

921
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:29,880
Speaker 1: mark down you need a lot of thick cover and

922
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:32,239
Speaker 1: food so they can reach it. And a lot of

923
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:36,160
Speaker 1: that is found early in the successional phase. So succession

924
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:40,520
Speaker 1: is that predictable way that we can manage plants. And

925
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:42,960
Speaker 1: Tim mentioned it earlier. I talked about a little earlier

926
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:47,000
Speaker 1: in terms of forestry, is predicting what's going to grow there,

927
00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 1: and succession is that marching forward of how those different

928
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:55,239
Speaker 1: plant communities show up. And if you can start with

929
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:59,000
Speaker 1: a blank slate hundred acres of field, you know, for example,

930
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:03,680
Speaker 1: and start think that come back into a plant community

931
00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:07,040
Speaker 1: that's no longer young grasses and it started getting shrubs

932
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:09,759
Speaker 1: and small trees. And Tim was talking about earlier with

933
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 1: young forests you can support more deer than if it's

934
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:16,000
Speaker 1: wide open grass, or if it's a forest that's so

935
00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:18,440
Speaker 1: old that it's canopied out and you have shade on

936
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:21,800
Speaker 1: the on the ground. So what you want to do

937
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:25,520
Speaker 1: from a timber perspective in terms of managing for financial

938
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 1: gains and on the side of trying to make that

939
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:34,720
Speaker 1: forest workforce for you financially, can be tweaked a little

940
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:37,839
Speaker 1: bit on the deer manager's brain by trying to make

941
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:43,360
Speaker 1: it more diverse and offer more UH young cover through

942
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:47,960
Speaker 1: forest management practices. UM. So that's kind of the big picture,

943
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 1: and we do that through a couple of broad rush

944
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:54,440
Speaker 1: techniques that foresters use of either trying to manage a

945
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 1: UH landscape in a lot of young trees um or

946
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:02,560
Speaker 1: kind of a mix of young and old and those

947
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:04,840
Speaker 1: We can get into some of that terminology if you'd like,

948
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:08,040
Speaker 1: But that's the thought process. So if I was to

949
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:10,560
Speaker 1: be hired or you know, prior to working for t DUM,

950
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:12,920
Speaker 1: if somebody had called the consultant company I used to

951
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:16,400
Speaker 1: work for and said, hey, I'm really interested in deer hunting, um,

952
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:19,680
Speaker 1: how can I manage this for deer? The way you

953
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 1: would manage that could would be different than if that

954
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:26,400
Speaker 1: person had said, hey, I'm really interested in and growing

955
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:29,400
Speaker 1: big trees, so I can, um, you know, get a

956
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 1: rebbin off this from my kids or my grandkids. You

957
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:35,799
Speaker 1: can do both, but you definitely have to change what

958
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:39,280
Speaker 1: you're doing, um, and the prescriptions and how it's done,

959
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:42,480
Speaker 1: how the property is is treated would be different from

960
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:46,439
Speaker 1: the deer manager's point of view. Okay, So so talk

961
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:50,440
Speaker 1: us through then that scenario. Let's say I'm a landowner.

962
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:54,920
Speaker 1: I have a chunk of property that has some timber

963
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:58,840
Speaker 1: on it. Maybe I've got some diversity and what I've got, Um,

964
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:01,880
Speaker 1: can you walk me through Let's say let's say you

965
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:03,799
Speaker 1: were still working as a force and then Tim, I'd

966
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:06,120
Speaker 1: love you to hop in here too, in your role

967
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:08,560
Speaker 1: that you're in right now. UM. You know, let's say

968
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:11,040
Speaker 1: the two of you, we're gonna show up my hunting

969
00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:15,759
Speaker 1: property and I said, hey, I want to understand what

970
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:18,960
Speaker 1: I need to do here to improve the habitat um

971
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:21,920
Speaker 1: influence some kind of force management. Can you kind of

972
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:25,919
Speaker 1: talk me through what your initial questions would be, what

973
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:29,080
Speaker 1: that initial process would look like, UM, what would what

974
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:31,480
Speaker 1: would I be in for during that first kind of

975
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:34,719
Speaker 1: meeting and and kind of subsequently, well, Kim, does that

976
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:37,320
Speaker 1: on almost on a daily basis, but it meets with

977
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:40,440
Speaker 1: landowners all the time, UM to the program we have

978
00:52:40,640 --> 00:52:42,840
Speaker 1: here that you mentioned earlier. So Tim, why don't you

979
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:45,120
Speaker 1: take take a stab at it? I don't want to

980
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:47,279
Speaker 1: steal your thunder because you that is part of your

981
00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:51,919
Speaker 1: job description. Sure like, Uh, I mean with any any

982
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:54,800
Speaker 1: form of FORCET management, you know you have that discussion

983
00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:57,440
Speaker 1: with the landowner. UM that the initial discussion. A really

984
00:52:57,480 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 1: good thing to find out is about the history of

985
00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:02,239
Speaker 1: the property, how long they've had it, if it's been

986
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:04,239
Speaker 1: logged in the recent past, that they know the land

987
00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:06,720
Speaker 1: has been treated to a certain way that might allow

988
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:09,920
Speaker 1: us to make inferences about what we'll find when we

989
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:13,120
Speaker 1: get out there. Probably the most important discussion to have

990
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:16,799
Speaker 1: is is about the objective uh and what things you know.

991
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:19,120
Speaker 1: It might be one objectives. Sometimes you meet with a

992
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:22,360
Speaker 1: person who really just wants that to be hunting property,

993
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:25,960
Speaker 1: or they have a multitude of objectives that might rank differently,

994
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:29,200
Speaker 1: and so you start with that objective. You do uh,

995
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:32,920
Speaker 1: you do an assessment of the property to basically uh

996
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:36,879
Speaker 1: get some information about what's what the forest looks like now,

997
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:39,719
Speaker 1: what the conditions are like currently, and then you work

998
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:42,040
Speaker 1: within your your knowledge and skill set to try and

999
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:45,160
Speaker 1: come up with a series of treatments which will sort

1000
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:48,839
Speaker 1: of uh, as Matt alluded, to drive or steer that

1001
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 1: forest ecosystem in a direction that better meets those objectives,

1002
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:55,759
Speaker 1: which can consist of a lot of different things, oftentimes

1003
00:53:56,000 --> 00:54:00,839
Speaker 1: cutting trees and oftentimes using herbicides to role plants which

1004
00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:03,480
Speaker 1: are not desirable. Uh. And of course hand in hand

1005
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:06,640
Speaker 1: with that is heard management to make sure that you

1006
00:54:06,719 --> 00:54:10,600
Speaker 1: don't have deer that are are causing damage to your

1007
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:13,560
Speaker 1: your potential crop for what you're trying to grow. So

1008
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:19,320
Speaker 1: I mean that's that's basically the essence of it. Um. Okay,

1009
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:22,400
Speaker 1: would you and and you you also want to know

1010
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:24,680
Speaker 1: like what limitations are there? I mean certainly have to

1011
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:27,920
Speaker 1: walk the property with the person. It's interesting those conversations

1012
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:31,920
Speaker 1: are come sometimes the landowner or the person that's calling

1013
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:34,720
Speaker 1: you know or even emailing us. We get these questions

1014
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:37,839
Speaker 1: all the time. Uh. We just put a blog up

1015
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:41,360
Speaker 1: about you know, that kind of interaction on our website,

1016
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:46,720
Speaker 1: not that long ago, um. Where the landowner has has interest,

1017
00:54:46,840 --> 00:54:50,040
Speaker 1: but sometimes it's hard for them to even define it themselves.

1018
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:53,600
Speaker 1: So it's those conversations that back and forth of Okay,

1019
00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:56,480
Speaker 1: you know, what do you use the property for? UM,

1020
00:54:56,520 --> 00:54:58,719
Speaker 1: you know, what would you like to not happen? What

1021
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:02,720
Speaker 1: would scare you where? Whoever that manager is this meeting

1022
00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:07,080
Speaker 1: them almost has to massage the discussion to the point where,

1023
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:09,080
Speaker 1: you know, just trying to get out of them what

1024
00:55:09,160 --> 00:55:12,280
Speaker 1: they're looking for, and then UM offer them a draft

1025
00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:14,560
Speaker 1: plan and a list of objectives to see if that

1026
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:17,200
Speaker 1: actually is what they're looking for. I'll say one thing

1027
00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:22,040
Speaker 1: too as well, is it's really an interesting opportunity too.

1028
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:25,680
Speaker 1: As I mentioned, these things are happening UM and they

1029
00:55:25,719 --> 00:55:29,279
Speaker 1: influence dear movement. But one of the things I thought

1030
00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:31,239
Speaker 1: was super powerful and one of those kind of like

1031
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:35,440
Speaker 1: aha moments for me, was how we have the ability

1032
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:38,920
Speaker 1: to change that. UM. You know, looking at a forest,

1033
00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:42,120
Speaker 1: many deer hunters will go out, you know, it doesn't

1034
00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:45,000
Speaker 1: matter private of public lands, and they start scouting for

1035
00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:47,000
Speaker 1: deer sign Right, You're going to look where you can

1036
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:50,360
Speaker 1: find rob lines and beds. UM find sheds on the

1037
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:52,760
Speaker 1: ground this time of year. In the next couple of weeks,

1038
00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:56,440
Speaker 1: UM plant food plots. You know, obviously to try to

1039
00:55:56,440 --> 00:55:58,560
Speaker 1: steer that a little bit, but you can think big

1040
00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:02,400
Speaker 1: picture and start really thinking, Okay, if you have access

1041
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:05,120
Speaker 1: and the ability to do this on private land, it

1042
00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:10,080
Speaker 1: start uh influencing that in a big way by saying, Okay,

1043
00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:13,200
Speaker 1: if I know, Dear like these certain conditions, and I

1044
00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:15,920
Speaker 1: know the wind direction is a certain you know, predominant

1045
00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:18,160
Speaker 1: wind directions coming across this property a certain way, and

1046
00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:21,360
Speaker 1: I know my access is only uh these you know,

1047
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:23,919
Speaker 1: from the from the main road. If it's a place

1048
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:25,960
Speaker 1: where you don't have a house or cabin, I have

1049
00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:28,760
Speaker 1: to walk in from this direction. You can start planning

1050
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:31,280
Speaker 1: that out in advance and saying I want to steer

1051
00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:35,080
Speaker 1: where dear go um. And you know it's not a

1052
00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:38,720
Speaker 1: bulletproof thing like anything, but you can really heavily influence

1053
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:41,480
Speaker 1: dear movement across the landscape by making some of these

1054
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:44,839
Speaker 1: decisions at the thirty ft scale. Now, so for the

1055
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:48,160
Speaker 1: people that are listening that don't own property and don't

1056
00:56:48,200 --> 00:56:50,920
Speaker 1: have those decisions, that's where you fall into what Kim

1057
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:55,080
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier is on lands you don't control, but you

1058
00:56:56,200 --> 00:56:59,120
Speaker 1: have access to, either through permission or if it's public land,

1059
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:03,080
Speaker 1: you can start making those decisions and figure out where

1060
00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:05,719
Speaker 1: to scout and where the hunt from the air. Even

1061
00:57:05,719 --> 00:57:07,560
Speaker 1: though you don't have the control over it. You can

1062
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:10,560
Speaker 1: look at things like that, UM, even on properties that

1063
00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:12,880
Speaker 1: you don't have access to. If there's land near you

1064
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:15,160
Speaker 1: that's privately owned that you don't have permission to get on,

1065
00:57:15,640 --> 00:57:17,160
Speaker 1: all you need to do is get on an areal,

1066
00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:20,280
Speaker 1: go back a couple of years. There's all different ways

1067
00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:22,440
Speaker 1: that you can kind of rewind time on those areals

1068
00:57:23,280 --> 00:57:26,120
Speaker 1: and see what it looks like five years or man

1069
00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:28,000
Speaker 1: even fifty years ago. You can go into some of

1070
00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:31,720
Speaker 1: the soil and water conservation districts and get old areals

1071
00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:35,320
Speaker 1: and see what was done to that property that that

1072
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:37,440
Speaker 1: is right next door that you've never stepped foot on,

1073
00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:40,200
Speaker 1: and kind of make a decision of Okay, I think

1074
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:42,680
Speaker 1: I know why de are doing that. It really lends

1075
00:57:42,680 --> 00:57:45,440
Speaker 1: itself to the to the deer hunter that's trying to

1076
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:50,919
Speaker 1: strategize making those decisions through forestry and how that's been treated. Yeah,

1077
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:53,960
Speaker 1: it's interesting. At a very similar example, pop up my

1078
00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:57,120
Speaker 1: own life on our on our Northern Michigan deer camp

1079
00:57:57,200 --> 00:58:01,360
Speaker 1: up there about two years ago, maybe three years ago,

1080
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:04,240
Speaker 1: two or three years ago. UM showed up there one year,

1081
00:58:04,560 --> 00:58:07,439
Speaker 1: I think, late summer and saw that the neighbor had

1082
00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:10,120
Speaker 1: just done a really aggressive cut, not quite a clear cut,

1083
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:13,360
Speaker 1: but a but a very aggressive selective cut, I guess

1084
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:16,960
Speaker 1: you'd call it. Um, And it just dramatically changed like

1085
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:19,600
Speaker 1: a twenty acre section right next to our property. And

1086
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:21,320
Speaker 1: right away I was like, Okay, well this is gonna

1087
00:58:21,440 --> 00:58:24,120
Speaker 1: change a lot of things, because what used to be

1088
00:58:24,320 --> 00:58:27,760
Speaker 1: just a big, thick, mature timber stand now is all

1089
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:30,120
Speaker 1: of a sudden it's probably gonna be really good betting

1090
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:32,000
Speaker 1: it's probably gonna be a whole lot of good food

1091
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:34,280
Speaker 1: here for a while to um. So the past few

1092
00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:36,720
Speaker 1: years we've started placing cameras along the edge of our

1093
00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:39,760
Speaker 1: property and start paying attention to it more. Um, because

1094
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:41,920
Speaker 1: you could just tell, like, when you see that kind

1095
00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:45,040
Speaker 1: of habitat, change is going to probably be positive for

1096
00:58:45,120 --> 00:58:47,920
Speaker 1: deer activity. Um. Even as you said, math, if it's

1097
00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:50,040
Speaker 1: not on your own property, you can still take advantage

1098
00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:53,480
Speaker 1: of it to a degree. And um. Interestingly, our shared

1099
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:58,200
Speaker 1: friend further almost killed a nice buck coming into that section.

1100
00:58:58,240 --> 00:59:00,960
Speaker 1: He was right near kind of on our side, close

1101
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:03,040
Speaker 1: to that clear cut area, and that the buck was

1102
00:59:03,080 --> 00:59:05,840
Speaker 1: heading that way probably check out for doze, and he

1103
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:09,720
Speaker 1: almost got a shot. So it's that's cool. He didn't

1104
00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:11,520
Speaker 1: tell me. That's enough to find out why why I

1105
00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:14,479
Speaker 1: didn't hear all about it. Yeah, just just didn't quite

1106
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:16,360
Speaker 1: have enough time to get on him before he turned

1107
00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:21,200
Speaker 1: heart started heading directly away from him. But yeah, yeah,

1108
00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:23,480
Speaker 1: I'll say One of other things too, is like you know,

1109
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:26,560
Speaker 1: on the hunting side of it is we all have

1110
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:28,440
Speaker 1: that thing in the back of our brain, you know,

1111
00:59:28,520 --> 00:59:30,880
Speaker 1: where you're walking into an area and all of a

1112
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:34,160
Speaker 1: sudden it feels like theory, right, you know, you're like, oh,

1113
00:59:34,200 --> 00:59:35,919
Speaker 1: I feel like I could jump a deer right now.

1114
00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:40,880
Speaker 1: Um that you control that too. You can make those

1115
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:43,919
Speaker 1: decisions from the air and say I would like that

1116
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:46,680
Speaker 1: feeling to be over here on this part of the property.

1117
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:49,960
Speaker 1: And that's land management and it doesn't necessarily always have

1118
00:59:50,040 --> 00:59:52,800
Speaker 1: to be forestry. Um. You can make those decisions by

1119
00:59:52,840 --> 00:59:54,920
Speaker 1: just letting the field go and let it go back.

1120
00:59:55,000 --> 00:59:58,200
Speaker 1: But that is what we're talking about here. Um. One

1121
00:59:58,200 --> 01:00:02,160
Speaker 1: thing you mentioned earlier is, uh, you said a selective cut,

1122
01:00:02,200 --> 01:00:04,560
Speaker 1: and I talked a little bit about those broad brush

1123
01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:10,440
Speaker 1: treatments generally for terminology. If you talk into a forester

1124
01:00:10,560 --> 01:00:12,880
Speaker 1: or if you know the property you have access to,

1125
01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:15,720
Speaker 1: forster has been on it and they're starting to work

1126
01:00:15,720 --> 01:00:19,560
Speaker 1: with that UM through some of the terminology and tim

1127
01:00:19,640 --> 01:00:24,800
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier. UM kind of one way to regenerate a force.

1128
01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:28,520
Speaker 1: There's two big I guess camps of forestry. Way we

1129
01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:33,320
Speaker 1: ways we manage is even age management and uneven Asian management.

1130
01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:36,240
Speaker 1: And even Asian management is where you want to create

1131
01:00:36,680 --> 01:00:39,000
Speaker 1: one whole new age class of trees coming up, and

1132
01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:41,280
Speaker 1: that would be like a clear cut as you were

1133
01:00:41,320 --> 01:00:43,880
Speaker 1: just talking about on that property up in Michigan. There's

1134
01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:47,440
Speaker 1: other ways to do even age management. UM. What you

1135
01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:50,040
Speaker 1: may have been looking at was a sea tree cut

1136
01:00:50,200 --> 01:00:54,240
Speaker 1: or shelter would cut. They're basically big massive changes where

1137
01:00:54,280 --> 01:00:57,400
Speaker 1: you remove almost the entire overstory, if not the whole

1138
01:00:57,440 --> 01:01:00,760
Speaker 1: thing sea tree and shelter would cut, or where you're

1139
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:04,040
Speaker 1: leaving a little bit left for a residual stand. But

1140
01:01:04,080 --> 01:01:06,800
Speaker 1: the eventual plan is to get a new crop of

1141
01:01:06,880 --> 01:01:09,120
Speaker 1: trees coming up, and you do that in a block

1142
01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:11,960
Speaker 1: fashion where you're saying, Okay, this block is what I

1143
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:16,360
Speaker 1: want to regenerate. And if we create a environment where

1144
01:01:16,360 --> 01:01:18,760
Speaker 1: there's a lot of sun and no overstory, very few

1145
01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:21,720
Speaker 1: overstory trees, you'll get a lot of some loving trees

1146
01:01:21,760 --> 01:01:25,120
Speaker 1: to come in there. Things like aspen, light seated species

1147
01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:27,920
Speaker 1: like white pine. Well, I'm listening stuff in the northeast,

1148
01:01:27,960 --> 01:01:30,320
Speaker 1: but it doesn't matter where you are. The things that

1149
01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:35,520
Speaker 1: will pioneer site is what shows up. Alternatively, if you

1150
01:01:35,640 --> 01:01:39,520
Speaker 1: want to do uh, the type of management that's uneven

1151
01:01:39,560 --> 01:01:42,280
Speaker 1: Asian management where you're removing some most people call it

1152
01:01:42,360 --> 01:01:45,800
Speaker 1: select cut or selective cut, where you're removing some of

1153
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:49,480
Speaker 1: the trees believing a portion of them. You can regenerate

1154
01:01:49,560 --> 01:01:52,000
Speaker 1: some new trees in there. But the trees that generally

1155
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:54,880
Speaker 1: will go back in that environment like shade or a

1156
01:01:54,920 --> 01:01:56,800
Speaker 1: little bit of sun, not a lot of sun. And

1157
01:01:56,840 --> 01:02:00,200
Speaker 1: that's through that predictability that I mentioned earlier. If you

1158
01:02:00,240 --> 01:02:02,920
Speaker 1: want to influence what trees grow back, you do that

1159
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:06,880
Speaker 1: through those two major camps. In the forester's mind, they say, Okay,

1160
01:02:07,160 --> 01:02:10,040
Speaker 1: I need this to happen. The landowner or the landowner

1161
01:02:10,120 --> 01:02:12,120
Speaker 1: or deer hunter that's talking and he wants deer to

1162
01:02:12,160 --> 01:02:15,360
Speaker 1: bed over there. Here are things that we need to do. Now.

1163
01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:17,880
Speaker 1: The timeline on both of those of what deer will

1164
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:20,800
Speaker 1: use are different. The reason I'm mentioning that is you're

1165
01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:24,760
Speaker 1: talking about that Michigan neighbor UH, the northern Michigan neighbor

1166
01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:29,040
Speaker 1: that's probably gonna be in the in the long term,

1167
01:02:29,280 --> 01:02:32,440
Speaker 1: kind of short lived. Although they did that cut that

1168
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:35,080
Speaker 1: you know what you felt like was an aggressive or

1169
01:02:35,120 --> 01:02:37,440
Speaker 1: you know you described as an aggressive thing. They removed

1170
01:02:37,480 --> 01:02:40,040
Speaker 1: a lot of trees. Dear, deer use in there. You

1171
01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:44,120
Speaker 1: can expect to be very high for a handful of years, right,

1172
01:02:44,120 --> 01:02:46,960
Speaker 1: but at some point that stuff will get above the

1173
01:02:47,040 --> 01:02:50,080
Speaker 1: deer's reach. Shade will stroll back up, but use around

1174
01:02:50,080 --> 01:02:52,919
Speaker 1: the seven or eight eight year mark, and then deer

1175
01:02:52,960 --> 01:02:56,440
Speaker 1: youth starts to decline because they don't have access to

1176
01:02:56,480 --> 01:02:58,720
Speaker 1: those trees that are within reach or have lots of

1177
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:02,520
Speaker 1: berries and fruits. The buds are no longer reach. And

1178
01:03:02,560 --> 01:03:06,400
Speaker 1: that's where you can start making those predictions. Um again,

1179
01:03:07,120 --> 01:03:10,160
Speaker 1: big term, big picture, long term from the sky of

1180
01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:13,720
Speaker 1: how dear will dear useful change. So I will bet

1181
01:03:13,760 --> 01:03:17,080
Speaker 1: you whatever year that was done on your neighbor's property,

1182
01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:19,560
Speaker 1: you got about seven or eight years of really high

1183
01:03:19,640 --> 01:03:21,439
Speaker 1: activity and then all of a sudden you're gonna start

1184
01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:24,200
Speaker 1: seeing at the client. UM use that to your advantage.

1185
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:26,400
Speaker 1: You could plan around it. You know, those are things

1186
01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:28,200
Speaker 1: that are deer hunter even if you don't own the

1187
01:03:28,280 --> 01:03:31,800
Speaker 1: land next to you. You want to know that stuff. Yeah, So,

1188
01:03:31,800 --> 01:03:36,720
Speaker 1: so how do you determine what the right option is

1189
01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:42,280
Speaker 1: between an even age class management or UM or uneven

1190
01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:45,760
Speaker 1: I'm blinking on the terminology you just said two seconds ago. Um,

1191
01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:47,640
Speaker 1: But how do you determine what the right route is

1192
01:03:47,680 --> 01:03:50,120
Speaker 1: to go between those two different camps of managing a

1193
01:03:50,160 --> 01:03:53,600
Speaker 1: piece of timber? Um? I manage? It probably depends partly

1194
01:03:53,600 --> 01:03:55,560
Speaker 1: on your goals. But can you elaborate a little bit

1195
01:03:55,600 --> 01:03:58,720
Speaker 1: mat Tim, I'll say it had definitely the buds on

1196
01:03:58,720 --> 01:04:00,760
Speaker 1: the goals. A lot of it is baseball. So on

1197
01:04:00,880 --> 01:04:03,800
Speaker 1: what Tim mentioned before is walking the property and getting

1198
01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:06,960
Speaker 1: a you know, a current status what's out there? You

1199
01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:10,280
Speaker 1: know what what trees are there now? Um, because that

1200
01:04:10,360 --> 01:04:13,560
Speaker 1: will play a large role in it. UM commercially, if

1201
01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:15,400
Speaker 1: there's trees that you can't take out of there that

1202
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:18,000
Speaker 1: will pay for it, then you're you're looking like it's

1203
01:04:18,000 --> 01:04:21,960
Speaker 1: a cost operation and most people don't have the ability

1204
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:24,000
Speaker 1: to pay to have something like that done. You want

1205
01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:27,680
Speaker 1: the forest operation to pay for itself, um, if you

1206
01:04:27,760 --> 01:04:31,240
Speaker 1: possibly can. So you know the current conditions part of it. Also,

1207
01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:34,040
Speaker 1: the ground really really you know what what the soils

1208
01:04:34,040 --> 01:04:38,240
Speaker 1: are like? Moisture level. UM, all of that stuff will

1209
01:04:38,240 --> 01:04:42,640
Speaker 1: play a part too, because sometimes logistically, if it's really wet,

1210
01:04:43,080 --> 01:04:44,840
Speaker 1: you can't go in there any time year, or you

1211
01:04:44,880 --> 01:04:47,960
Speaker 1: gotta wait till it's frozen if you're in the north. Um.

1212
01:04:48,480 --> 01:04:50,920
Speaker 1: And all of the things that are kind of fall

1213
01:04:51,040 --> 01:04:54,720
Speaker 1: under the logistics tab you know of like what what

1214
01:04:54,800 --> 01:04:56,320
Speaker 1: you can do and what you can get away with.

1215
01:04:56,360 --> 01:04:58,920
Speaker 1: So there's a lot of nuances and that's why the

1216
01:04:58,960 --> 01:05:02,760
Speaker 1: answers typically it depends. It really depends on walking the property,

1217
01:05:03,080 --> 01:05:05,560
Speaker 1: getting a sense of what it feels like. And you know,

1218
01:05:05,760 --> 01:05:09,440
Speaker 1: I'll say nod for any anybody listening. You know, this

1219
01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:11,920
Speaker 1: is why forresters are important. There's a lot of these

1220
01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:16,520
Speaker 1: folks out there that use forresters. UM. They aren't just

1221
01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:20,120
Speaker 1: a middle middleman or woman that's there to you know,

1222
01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:23,240
Speaker 1: help alone with the process, but also get their quote

1223
01:05:23,280 --> 01:05:26,160
Speaker 1: unquote cut um. A lot of times you need somebody

1224
01:05:26,160 --> 01:05:28,800
Speaker 1: that's trained in those decision making. There's a lot of

1225
01:05:28,840 --> 01:05:31,040
Speaker 1: great laggers out there. I still have a lot of

1226
01:05:31,080 --> 01:05:34,000
Speaker 1: great friends and their loggers. UM. Folks that go directly

1227
01:05:34,040 --> 01:05:37,480
Speaker 1: with loggers can get a similar result, but you want

1228
01:05:37,480 --> 01:05:40,320
Speaker 1: somebody that's trained in silver culture. The science and art

1229
01:05:40,320 --> 01:05:43,680
Speaker 1: of managing forests to make some of those decisions. And

1230
01:05:44,040 --> 01:05:46,600
Speaker 1: that's part of the thought process too, is working with

1231
01:05:46,640 --> 01:05:49,320
Speaker 1: somebody that's trained. They have they went to school for it,

1232
01:05:49,800 --> 01:05:53,479
Speaker 1: um and it's certainly important, uh, Tim, you know, feel

1233
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:56,800
Speaker 1: free to chime in, know about like going onto a property,

1234
01:05:57,080 --> 01:05:59,720
Speaker 1: how do you decide, um, whether you're gonna do full

1235
01:05:59,760 --> 01:06:03,080
Speaker 1: on even Asian management, uneven Asian management or what mark

1236
01:06:03,160 --> 01:06:05,560
Speaker 1: you originally had asked us to be on the call

1237
01:06:05,640 --> 01:06:09,200
Speaker 1: of uh is timber stand improvement. And that's a whole

1238
01:06:09,280 --> 01:06:12,680
Speaker 1: camp in itself. And of this intermediate stage where the

1239
01:06:12,720 --> 01:06:16,640
Speaker 1: trees are not quite commercial. Uh, they're not ready to

1240
01:06:16,680 --> 01:06:18,680
Speaker 1: be cut, but you can still do some things. I'll

1241
01:06:18,720 --> 01:06:21,000
Speaker 1: let Tim kind of take the ball from there. Yeah,

1242
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:23,000
Speaker 1: if you can define some of that to be helpful

1243
01:06:23,000 --> 01:06:27,040
Speaker 1: to Tim absolutely well. You know, when we have an

1244
01:06:27,080 --> 01:06:31,320
Speaker 1: uneven state and uneven aged stand that's being managed typically

1245
01:06:31,400 --> 01:06:35,360
Speaker 1: using that selection method that Matt had mentioned, we're trying

1246
01:06:35,400 --> 01:06:37,480
Speaker 1: to leave, you know, at the stand level in that

1247
01:06:37,560 --> 01:06:41,360
Speaker 1: individual stand a similar area with trees of different ages

1248
01:06:41,400 --> 01:06:43,480
Speaker 1: in each age class trees and different ages that are

1249
01:06:43,520 --> 01:06:46,400
Speaker 1: all mixed up in the same stand. Because of our

1250
01:06:46,480 --> 01:06:49,200
Speaker 1: history at least in New York and a lot of

1251
01:06:49,240 --> 01:06:52,200
Speaker 1: the Northeast, so much of our forest has reverted from

1252
01:06:52,240 --> 01:06:55,520
Speaker 1: a band and agricultural land. That the vast majority of

1253
01:06:55,520 --> 01:06:59,280
Speaker 1: the forests that we're managing our even age um, and

1254
01:06:59,360 --> 01:07:02,880
Speaker 1: so it sort of becomes easier to continue to to

1255
01:07:03,080 --> 01:07:06,919
Speaker 1: follow that system. Uh, it takes a tremendously long time,

1256
01:07:06,960 --> 01:07:10,080
Speaker 1: whether you're starting from the ground or starting from an

1257
01:07:10,080 --> 01:07:13,640
Speaker 1: older even aged forest, to convert to an uneven aged

1258
01:07:13,680 --> 01:07:16,240
Speaker 1: forest where you have trees of lots of lots of

1259
01:07:16,280 --> 01:07:18,680
Speaker 1: different age classes. There are a few ways to do it,

1260
01:07:18,680 --> 01:07:21,360
Speaker 1: where you might come in with a mosaic of very

1261
01:07:21,360 --> 01:07:24,400
Speaker 1: small gaps that you're creating over time, or starting with

1262
01:07:24,440 --> 01:07:26,920
Speaker 1: a gap that you're expanding over time. But that's a

1263
01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:30,000
Speaker 1: very long process to go from, you know, an even

1264
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:33,200
Speaker 1: age stand to an uneven aged stand. Whereas in any

1265
01:07:33,240 --> 01:07:35,200
Speaker 1: of these cases, if we go in and we do

1266
01:07:35,280 --> 01:07:38,480
Speaker 1: a very heavy cut like a shelter would or a

1267
01:07:38,560 --> 01:07:42,120
Speaker 1: seed tree or a clear cut, you know, it isn't

1268
01:07:42,160 --> 01:07:45,760
Speaker 1: as difficult to regenerate the stand and now have an

1269
01:07:45,760 --> 01:07:48,439
Speaker 1: even age stand that can basically that conversion can take

1270
01:07:48,480 --> 01:07:53,440
Speaker 1: place in a single treatment um. As far as you know,

1271
01:07:53,720 --> 01:07:56,400
Speaker 1: managing those as as they go forward, I mean, they're

1272
01:07:56,440 --> 01:07:59,320
Speaker 1: they're a little bit different, UM and this can this

1273
01:07:59,400 --> 01:08:02,960
Speaker 1: can influence which one is preferable, because with the even

1274
01:08:02,960 --> 01:08:06,400
Speaker 1: age stand, you're you're regenerating that stand, getting a new

1275
01:08:06,440 --> 01:08:09,280
Speaker 1: age class and new cohort cohort of trees coming up

1276
01:08:09,640 --> 01:08:13,560
Speaker 1: UM as they approach rotation age. Typically you have intermediate

1277
01:08:13,960 --> 01:08:17,920
Speaker 1: treatments like timber stand improvement to reduce the crowding and

1278
01:08:17,920 --> 01:08:21,160
Speaker 1: and leave behind the best individuals UM and then ultimately

1279
01:08:21,160 --> 01:08:24,360
Speaker 1: you're regenerating the stand, whereas in that uneven aged stand,

1280
01:08:24,800 --> 01:08:27,519
Speaker 1: each entry you're sort of doing both of fenning and

1281
01:08:27,520 --> 01:08:30,439
Speaker 1: a regeneration treatment because you're trying to keep trees of

1282
01:08:30,520 --> 01:08:33,599
Speaker 1: all different ages throughout that entire stand. So you've got

1283
01:08:33,640 --> 01:08:37,280
Speaker 1: seedlings and saplings and pole timber and small saltember and

1284
01:08:37,360 --> 01:08:40,240
Speaker 1: large saal timber size trees UM. And this can pose

1285
01:08:40,280 --> 01:08:43,839
Speaker 1: a different obstacle UM, particularly when you get into areas

1286
01:08:43,880 --> 01:08:46,160
Speaker 1: like much of New York has, where where deer can

1287
01:08:46,160 --> 01:08:49,360
Speaker 1: be overpopulated to the point that they're they're browsing down

1288
01:08:49,760 --> 01:08:52,320
Speaker 1: UM all of the region you want. In an even

1289
01:08:52,360 --> 01:08:55,559
Speaker 1: age scenario, you basically have a window of time where

1290
01:08:55,600 --> 01:08:58,200
Speaker 1: you need to get trees regenerated and then up over

1291
01:08:58,280 --> 01:09:00,439
Speaker 1: the heads of the deer where they can each those

1292
01:09:00,479 --> 01:09:02,800
Speaker 1: trees and not have to worry about it for another

1293
01:09:02,840 --> 01:09:06,360
Speaker 1: eighty years, whereas in an uneven aged setting you need

1294
01:09:06,400 --> 01:09:10,840
Speaker 1: to have regeneration constantly and having you know, even a

1295
01:09:11,360 --> 01:09:13,679
Speaker 1: period of time in time for a few years where

1296
01:09:13,680 --> 01:09:16,320
Speaker 1: the deer brows is so heavy that you can't get

1297
01:09:16,360 --> 01:09:20,400
Speaker 1: that regeneration established. That can pose a problem that is

1298
01:09:20,439 --> 01:09:22,680
Speaker 1: going to continue to be a problem because there's a

1299
01:09:22,760 --> 01:09:26,320
Speaker 1: gap in that age structure that will continue on through time. UH.

1300
01:09:26,360 --> 01:09:28,320
Speaker 1: The other thing we think about a lot as far

1301
01:09:28,360 --> 01:09:30,519
Speaker 1: as trying to you know, when we have them manage

1302
01:09:30,600 --> 01:09:33,519
Speaker 1: uneven aged stands UH in New York and many other

1303
01:09:33,600 --> 01:09:37,839
Speaker 1: places that have each bark disease. As Matt mentioned that

1304
01:09:37,840 --> 01:09:43,960
Speaker 1: that uneven aged management UM often favors shade tolerant species

1305
01:09:44,560 --> 01:09:48,559
Speaker 1: because they're growing under several other tiers of vegetation of

1306
01:09:48,600 --> 01:09:51,880
Speaker 1: different heights. It could be more difficult for those UM

1307
01:09:51,960 --> 01:09:55,400
Speaker 1: those shade intolerant or sun loving species to come in

1308
01:09:55,840 --> 01:09:59,040
Speaker 1: and UH in New York and many other places, we

1309
01:09:59,160 --> 01:10:02,360
Speaker 1: have this issue with with each that can come to

1310
01:10:02,439 --> 01:10:06,080
Speaker 1: dominate in those cases because each is so tolerant of shade,

1311
01:10:06,160 --> 01:10:10,719
Speaker 1: So it definitely poses some different obstacles managing under one

1312
01:10:11,000 --> 01:10:14,880
Speaker 1: versus the other. Is there any is there any kind

1313
01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:19,320
Speaker 1: of blanket statement you could apply to either even or

1314
01:10:19,400 --> 01:10:24,720
Speaker 1: uneven management as far as a benefit or or or

1315
01:10:24,840 --> 01:10:27,320
Speaker 1: negative to either one as far as managing from a

1316
01:10:27,360 --> 01:10:30,040
Speaker 1: deer hunting perspective, because I'm imagining if I were to

1317
01:10:30,120 --> 01:10:32,080
Speaker 1: just like guess off the top of my head, I see, okay,

1318
01:10:32,120 --> 01:10:34,599
Speaker 1: a clear cut that to kind of practice and even

1319
01:10:35,320 --> 01:10:38,760
Speaker 1: management practice right there. That seems like a downside to

1320
01:10:38,800 --> 01:10:41,960
Speaker 1: that would be that it would be at least immediately

1321
01:10:42,000 --> 01:10:44,920
Speaker 1: after that clear cuts made, you've lost a lot of

1322
01:10:44,920 --> 01:10:47,200
Speaker 1: cover in the short term, and you might have changed

1323
01:10:47,200 --> 01:10:50,360
Speaker 1: dear behavior in the short term, possibly negatively, depending on

1324
01:10:50,520 --> 01:10:52,800
Speaker 1: when that cuts made, how close it might be the

1325
01:10:52,880 --> 01:10:56,000
Speaker 1: hunting seasons. So that's something like, well, that's a catastrophic change.

1326
01:10:56,520 --> 01:10:58,720
Speaker 1: That's one downside, but then the upside might be that

1327
01:10:58,760 --> 01:11:00,479
Speaker 1: a year or two or three years from now, then

1328
01:11:00,479 --> 01:11:04,000
Speaker 1: you've got this this great, big, large area of of

1329
01:11:04,280 --> 01:11:09,719
Speaker 1: beneficial habitat um. That's my novice guests on one possible

1330
01:11:09,760 --> 01:11:12,880
Speaker 1: upside downside of something a clear cut. Could you speak

1331
01:11:12,920 --> 01:11:16,600
Speaker 1: to or point out any other possible benefits or downsized

1332
01:11:16,640 --> 01:11:18,920
Speaker 1: to either one of those. Um that someone might want

1333
01:11:18,960 --> 01:11:21,480
Speaker 1: to think about one considering one or the other. Yeah,

1334
01:11:21,520 --> 01:11:24,200
Speaker 1: I'll jump in. I think they both have their place,

1335
01:11:24,320 --> 01:11:29,160
Speaker 1: and if the land lends itself, the space lends itself.

1336
01:11:29,200 --> 01:11:31,880
Speaker 1: I like both techniques for deer hunting. UM. You know,

1337
01:11:32,080 --> 01:11:35,120
Speaker 1: in an ideal situation, you know, percuts don't have to

1338
01:11:35,160 --> 01:11:38,920
Speaker 1: be although they're nice to have, you know, larger five

1339
01:11:39,000 --> 01:11:44,240
Speaker 1: ten acres or even ten to twenty acres or larger recommended.

1340
01:11:44,640 --> 01:11:47,280
Speaker 1: You know, these blocks of two to five acres can

1341
01:11:47,320 --> 01:11:50,800
Speaker 1: be created to get especially if you get the light

1342
01:11:50,880 --> 01:11:53,080
Speaker 1: slope where the sun's coming down. It's the you know,

1343
01:11:53,080 --> 01:11:55,200
Speaker 1: a south facing slope to get a lot of sun

1344
01:11:55,240 --> 01:12:00,120
Speaker 1: in those places. UM. I like to see both. Then

1345
01:12:00,240 --> 01:12:02,320
Speaker 1: end on even as management for deer hunting, and it

1346
01:12:02,400 --> 01:12:06,000
Speaker 1: goes back to that sculpting of deer movement where you

1347
01:12:06,040 --> 01:12:10,320
Speaker 1: can you can influence how deer will bed you get

1348
01:12:10,320 --> 01:12:12,320
Speaker 1: the forest to respond the way you want as well,

1349
01:12:12,360 --> 01:12:15,160
Speaker 1: but you can influence how deer will better move. If

1350
01:12:15,200 --> 01:12:20,560
Speaker 1: you can picture again a block of landmark where you have, UM,

1351
01:12:20,840 --> 01:12:23,600
Speaker 1: let's say, just as an extreme right, the wind is

1352
01:12:23,640 --> 01:12:26,120
Speaker 1: out of the west. I'm gonna give you an extreme example.

1353
01:12:26,400 --> 01:12:28,800
Speaker 1: And on the west side of that hundred acres you

1354
01:12:28,840 --> 01:12:32,280
Speaker 1: put a linear five acre clear cut that takes up

1355
01:12:32,280 --> 01:12:35,719
Speaker 1: the whole west boundary. Right. Um, you can expect within

1356
01:12:35,760 --> 01:12:38,160
Speaker 1: a couple of years dear to be betting on that

1357
01:12:38,200 --> 01:12:40,800
Speaker 1: west cover. And then what if right in the center

1358
01:12:40,840 --> 01:12:45,240
Speaker 1: of that block, UM you did UM going from a

1359
01:12:45,680 --> 01:12:48,400
Speaker 1: you know, east west pattern, you get a whole bunch

1360
01:12:48,400 --> 01:12:53,439
Speaker 1: of uneven aged management UM coming from that that clear

1361
01:12:53,479 --> 01:12:56,559
Speaker 1: cut towards a food source which is all the way

1362
01:12:56,600 --> 01:12:58,840
Speaker 1: over on the east side of the property, but on

1363
01:12:58,880 --> 01:13:00,400
Speaker 1: the north and on the south off the end of

1364
01:13:00,439 --> 01:13:03,919
Speaker 1: your block, you didn't do much. There's just open canopy

1365
01:13:03,960 --> 01:13:06,559
Speaker 1: in there, or you know, a close canopy, not much

1366
01:13:06,560 --> 01:13:09,760
Speaker 1: on the ground growing. You would predict that deer would

1367
01:13:09,760 --> 01:13:12,400
Speaker 1: probably come out of that clear cut they'd be betting

1368
01:13:12,400 --> 01:13:16,200
Speaker 1: in there would follow that uneven aged management kind of

1369
01:13:16,280 --> 01:13:19,720
Speaker 1: swath where there's some cover growing in the in the

1370
01:13:19,760 --> 01:13:23,919
Speaker 1: understory to your food source. UM. That's an extreme example.

1371
01:13:24,520 --> 01:13:27,240
Speaker 1: But what I'm saying there is that's an example of

1372
01:13:27,320 --> 01:13:30,519
Speaker 1: having both and kind of um for lack of a

1373
01:13:30,520 --> 01:13:32,599
Speaker 1: better term, I mean, others have used it out their

1374
01:13:32,640 --> 01:13:37,120
Speaker 1: deer scaping the property where you can influence where deer betting. Sure,

1375
01:13:37,360 --> 01:13:39,880
Speaker 1: in about eight years or nine years, that clear cuts

1376
01:13:39,920 --> 01:13:43,840
Speaker 1: no longer going to be useful for deer um. Not

1377
01:13:43,880 --> 01:13:45,920
Speaker 1: necessarily useful, but it's not going to have the betting

1378
01:13:46,000 --> 01:13:49,320
Speaker 1: cover holding capacity that it did in the first couple

1379
01:13:49,320 --> 01:13:52,360
Speaker 1: of years. Um, you wanted some kind of time limits

1380
01:13:52,400 --> 01:13:54,320
Speaker 1: on that. I can tell you. You You know, doing those

1381
01:13:54,320 --> 01:13:58,280
Speaker 1: heavy even age management techniques, you're going to see a

1382
01:13:59,000 --> 01:14:02,479
Speaker 1: hundredfold being greets and brows coming in immediately in the

1383
01:14:02,520 --> 01:14:04,960
Speaker 1: first one to five years, you'll see an excess of

1384
01:14:05,040 --> 01:14:08,080
Speaker 1: over a thousand pounds of food. Breaker You're gonna get

1385
01:14:08,120 --> 01:14:10,800
Speaker 1: a flush of soft mass because a lot of those

1386
01:14:10,800 --> 01:14:15,919
Speaker 1: things like raspberries, um and other soft mass bearing shrubs

1387
01:14:16,280 --> 01:14:20,200
Speaker 1: and small trees will show up. That's where they grow. UM.

1388
01:14:20,280 --> 01:14:23,400
Speaker 1: But again you're gonna it's short lived, it's gonna kind

1389
01:14:23,400 --> 01:14:26,559
Speaker 1: of disappear. Whereas in the environment where you're doing the

1390
01:14:26,640 --> 01:14:29,280
Speaker 1: uneven aged management, you can expect, especially if we're going

1391
01:14:29,320 --> 01:14:31,880
Speaker 1: in and penetrating that area and just doing a little

1392
01:14:31,920 --> 01:14:34,880
Speaker 1: bit every seven to ten years, you're always gonna have

1393
01:14:34,920 --> 01:14:37,680
Speaker 1: cover coming up and always having covering coming up. So

1394
01:14:38,160 --> 01:14:41,960
Speaker 1: from a deer hunter's perspective, they're both good if you

1395
01:14:42,040 --> 01:14:44,760
Speaker 1: have the space for it. Um. You know, in that

1396
01:14:44,840 --> 01:14:48,520
Speaker 1: extreme example, I just told you after about ten years

1397
01:14:48,560 --> 01:14:50,880
Speaker 1: that western boundaries not going to be holding gear the

1398
01:14:50,920 --> 01:14:54,720
Speaker 1: way it was, um, you know, until you can go

1399
01:14:54,720 --> 01:14:56,599
Speaker 1: in there and do something else with it. So now

1400
01:14:56,960 --> 01:14:59,120
Speaker 1: you've got to plan accordingly. And that's really what a

1401
01:14:59,200 --> 01:15:04,960
Speaker 1: forced and UH wildlife management plan combined can do for you.

1402
01:15:05,000 --> 01:15:08,559
Speaker 1: If you integrate those two goals, your deer hunting or

1403
01:15:08,600 --> 01:15:12,880
Speaker 1: your wildlife specific goals with a timber management or forestry,

1404
01:15:13,560 --> 01:15:15,479
Speaker 1: you can start in flowing some of those things that

1405
01:15:15,600 --> 01:15:19,800
Speaker 1: having decisions where you might not do UH as large

1406
01:15:19,800 --> 01:15:23,160
Speaker 1: as a clear cut or even age management. In year one,

1407
01:15:23,320 --> 01:15:27,519
Speaker 1: you might do just that northwest boundary and then in

1408
01:15:27,920 --> 01:15:30,479
Speaker 1: ten years go down and do the north you know,

1409
01:15:30,600 --> 01:15:35,559
Speaker 1: southwest boundary and then move it into a different quadrant

1410
01:15:35,560 --> 01:15:37,880
Speaker 1: where you're moving that around where deer going. That's an

1411
01:15:37,920 --> 01:15:41,680
Speaker 1: ideal thing where you're always going through a rotation. I

1412
01:15:41,840 --> 01:15:44,320
Speaker 1: use that word of doing something there every couple of

1413
01:15:44,360 --> 01:15:48,599
Speaker 1: years to keep deer cover and food low and deer

1414
01:15:48,720 --> 01:15:52,400
Speaker 1: use on your property high. Um. It requires space to

1415
01:15:52,439 --> 01:15:57,040
Speaker 1: do that. For private landowners that have small landholdings. One

1416
01:15:57,040 --> 01:15:59,240
Speaker 1: of the best ways you can do that. And I

1417
01:15:59,240 --> 01:16:01,320
Speaker 1: didn't even plan I'm talking about this, but it just

1418
01:16:01,360 --> 01:16:03,439
Speaker 1: makes sense. It's through a cooperative, and I know they're

1419
01:16:03,520 --> 01:16:05,879
Speaker 1: huge in Michigan and they're big in New York too.

1420
01:16:06,439 --> 01:16:11,840
Speaker 1: Is I've seen foresters firsthand example where you might not

1421
01:16:11,960 --> 01:16:15,439
Speaker 1: own that much land if you are a private landowner, um,

1422
01:16:15,479 --> 01:16:19,720
Speaker 1: but you can plan a forest operation with multiple landowners

1423
01:16:19,760 --> 01:16:24,120
Speaker 1: involved through a cooperative where that forrester and the logging

1424
01:16:24,200 --> 01:16:27,000
Speaker 1: crew will love it because it's economy of scale where

1425
01:16:27,040 --> 01:16:29,120
Speaker 1: they might come in and they might have to create

1426
01:16:29,160 --> 01:16:32,600
Speaker 1: a couple of different landings to access the wood, but

1427
01:16:32,680 --> 01:16:36,320
Speaker 1: at least it's working cohesively as one big plan where

1428
01:16:36,360 --> 01:16:40,320
Speaker 1: you might have you know, five or ten landowners together.

1429
01:16:40,880 --> 01:16:44,360
Speaker 1: That actually makes it worth the operation and then you

1430
01:16:44,360 --> 01:16:47,719
Speaker 1: can start influencing the same stuff we're talking about through forestry.

1431
01:16:47,800 --> 01:16:50,880
Speaker 1: So cooperatives, although they have a lot of benefits in

1432
01:16:50,880 --> 01:16:52,960
Speaker 1: a lot of different ways, a lot of folks don't

1433
01:16:52,960 --> 01:16:55,720
Speaker 1: think through with the forestry side of it. But I've

1434
01:16:55,720 --> 01:16:58,280
Speaker 1: seen that firsthand example. I chure tim as well, where

1435
01:16:58,760 --> 01:17:02,679
Speaker 1: one foresters high by basically every landowner and they bring

1436
01:17:02,680 --> 01:17:04,920
Speaker 1: a crew and they just treat as much acres as

1437
01:17:04,920 --> 01:17:09,400
Speaker 1: they possibly can. In the fact, my own cooperative. Uh,

1438
01:17:09,439 --> 01:17:13,599
Speaker 1: there's a guy moving on this weekend. Uh, a logger's

1439
01:17:13,640 --> 01:17:15,800
Speaker 1: moving and he's gonna be treating several different properties on

1440
01:17:16,120 --> 01:17:19,240
Speaker 1: the place, slide hunt on. That's a really interesting way

1441
01:17:19,280 --> 01:17:23,320
Speaker 1: of of of continue to take that group approach and

1442
01:17:23,320 --> 01:17:26,560
Speaker 1: and expand that beyond just harvest decisions, but also to

1443
01:17:27,240 --> 01:17:29,720
Speaker 1: management of habitat. That's a pretty cool way to do it.

1444
01:17:31,520 --> 01:17:34,839
Speaker 1: You were talking about kind of rotating different quadrants and

1445
01:17:35,040 --> 01:17:38,720
Speaker 1: creating different even necessarily mentioned this war, but you kind

1446
01:17:38,720 --> 01:17:40,960
Speaker 1: of alluded to you're creating different edges. Like you talked

1447
01:17:40,960 --> 01:17:43,280
Speaker 1: about how you've had that one example scenario where you

1448
01:17:43,320 --> 01:17:45,720
Speaker 1: had the clear cut betting here on the west side,

1449
01:17:45,720 --> 01:17:49,240
Speaker 1: and then you had this edge created by uneven management

1450
01:17:49,479 --> 01:17:52,360
Speaker 1: through the middle then directed traffic towards that food source

1451
01:17:52,400 --> 01:17:54,120
Speaker 1: to the east. And as you were talking about that,

1452
01:17:54,120 --> 01:17:55,800
Speaker 1: I was thinking about, Yeah, a lot of what we're

1453
01:17:55,800 --> 01:17:58,479
Speaker 1: doing here when we're managing timber is taking what might

1454
01:17:58,520 --> 01:18:02,680
Speaker 1: be a wide been monoculture, even age standard timber that

1455
01:18:02,760 --> 01:18:06,000
Speaker 1: has no diversity to habitat, no edge within it, and

1456
01:18:06,040 --> 01:18:09,000
Speaker 1: now you're creating this edge, which as is a lot

1457
01:18:09,040 --> 01:18:12,240
Speaker 1: of deer hunters. No, edge is something that attracts deer

1458
01:18:12,280 --> 01:18:15,840
Speaker 1: that deer really relate to as far as movement, as

1459
01:18:15,840 --> 01:18:18,600
Speaker 1: far as the types of habitat they desire to be

1460
01:18:18,680 --> 01:18:22,519
Speaker 1: around for food and escape, cover and whatnot. Um and Tim,

1461
01:18:22,560 --> 01:18:25,680
Speaker 1: I read an article you wrote a while back about

1462
01:18:25,720 --> 01:18:29,519
Speaker 1: this about the importance of edge and how it might

1463
01:18:29,560 --> 01:18:32,200
Speaker 1: be something to think about. Is you could achieve I

1464
01:18:32,240 --> 01:18:35,400
Speaker 1: think your your line wasn't there that you could achieve

1465
01:18:36,000 --> 01:18:39,679
Speaker 1: creating edge on a habitat one bite at a time. UM,

1466
01:18:39,800 --> 01:18:41,360
Speaker 1: if you know what I'm talking about? Could you could

1467
01:18:41,360 --> 01:18:44,040
Speaker 1: you elaborate on on what your concept was there that

1468
01:18:44,080 --> 01:18:47,160
Speaker 1: you that you spoke about in that piece? Sure? Uh,

1469
01:18:47,320 --> 01:18:50,599
Speaker 1: And in that that piece, I was looking at something

1470
01:18:50,720 --> 01:18:53,519
Speaker 1: very much like what Matt was talking about just earlier,

1471
01:18:53,920 --> 01:18:57,280
Speaker 1: as far as continuing to to cut on the property

1472
01:18:57,360 --> 01:18:59,960
Speaker 1: so that you know there's always something that's been freshly

1473
01:19:00,000 --> 01:19:02,680
Speaker 1: cut and always something that's been growing in. I think

1474
01:19:02,720 --> 01:19:05,320
Speaker 1: one of the examples I gave in that article, Uh,

1475
01:19:05,400 --> 01:19:08,519
Speaker 1: it would be to expand a gap, particularly if somebody

1476
01:19:08,600 --> 01:19:11,960
Speaker 1: has a limited amount of space or time and resources

1477
01:19:11,960 --> 01:19:14,200
Speaker 1: that they can create a patch cut and then continue

1478
01:19:14,240 --> 01:19:19,480
Speaker 1: to work off of that. Um. You know, uh, sometimes

1479
01:19:19,680 --> 01:19:23,240
Speaker 1: you know it would seem almost that uh, that habitat

1480
01:19:23,360 --> 01:19:26,519
Speaker 1: management as as far as deer go and timber management

1481
01:19:26,560 --> 01:19:29,760
Speaker 1: can seem at odds because when we think about the

1482
01:19:29,800 --> 01:19:33,400
Speaker 1: things that dear need, you know, we're often talking about

1483
01:19:33,439 --> 01:19:37,120
Speaker 1: the things that come with that, those earliest stages of succession,

1484
01:19:37,160 --> 01:19:40,120
Speaker 1: whether it's actual early succession with forbes coming in at

1485
01:19:40,120 --> 01:19:42,839
Speaker 1: the ground level, or whether we're talking about young forest

1486
01:19:43,120 --> 01:19:46,160
Speaker 1: whereas we think timber and we're thinking of an older

1487
01:19:46,200 --> 01:19:48,920
Speaker 1: forest that's yielding larger saw logs. That seemed to be

1488
01:19:49,160 --> 01:19:53,200
Speaker 1: opposite objectives. Uh. And one of the best ways to

1489
01:19:53,200 --> 01:19:57,400
Speaker 1: to manage for that, when possible, is to create something

1490
01:19:57,600 --> 01:20:03,120
Speaker 1: of a rotation of a mosaic what forests sometimes term regulation,

1491
01:20:03,880 --> 01:20:07,040
Speaker 1: where over time, as you continue to cut similar areas,

1492
01:20:07,080 --> 01:20:10,680
Speaker 1: you eventually have this mosaic with plenty of edge um,

1493
01:20:10,960 --> 01:20:15,040
Speaker 1: but where you also have a consistent amount of habitat

1494
01:20:15,080 --> 01:20:17,840
Speaker 1: of different age classes. It's always changing, it's always moving,

1495
01:20:17,880 --> 01:20:21,880
Speaker 1: but you've got a stable, stable capacity there because you've

1496
01:20:21,880 --> 01:20:25,479
Speaker 1: always got this similar amount of of recently regenerated forest

1497
01:20:25,560 --> 01:20:28,559
Speaker 1: that maybe has some early successional plants coming in and

1498
01:20:28,640 --> 01:20:30,679
Speaker 1: stands that are just a few years old that offer

1499
01:20:30,760 --> 01:20:34,240
Speaker 1: that cover and then mature stands which you can which

1500
01:20:34,240 --> 01:20:36,760
Speaker 1: you can you know, tend in between. And that's also

1501
01:20:36,880 --> 01:20:39,880
Speaker 1: very good from a timber standpoint, because now you're over

1502
01:20:39,960 --> 01:20:44,040
Speaker 1: time getting consistent flows of timber from that UM. And

1503
01:20:44,080 --> 01:20:45,840
Speaker 1: there are are the things that you could do in

1504
01:20:45,880 --> 01:20:48,680
Speaker 1: those those intermediate treatments that you might tweak things a

1505
01:20:48,680 --> 01:20:51,719
Speaker 1: little bit differently than you would do for timber management

1506
01:20:51,760 --> 01:20:56,519
Speaker 1: to make the conditions better for deer and for deer hunting. UM.

1507
01:20:56,560 --> 01:20:58,880
Speaker 1: Speaking of that, another thing you mentioned, I think it

1508
01:20:58,920 --> 01:21:01,320
Speaker 1: was in that piece or maybe another, when it came

1509
01:21:01,360 --> 01:21:03,600
Speaker 1: to these different cuts that you're making and how it

1510
01:21:03,680 --> 01:21:06,360
Speaker 1: might be able to benefit both wildlife and your timber

1511
01:21:06,400 --> 01:21:10,040
Speaker 1: management plan. One of the things to improve UM the

1512
01:21:10,080 --> 01:21:13,320
Speaker 1: capacity for wil life use that you mentioned was the

1513
01:21:13,320 --> 01:21:16,320
Speaker 1: shape of the cuts and what the benefit might be

1514
01:21:16,400 --> 01:21:20,240
Speaker 1: of having an irregularly shaped cut versus just a circle

1515
01:21:20,520 --> 01:21:22,360
Speaker 1: or square. And this is something I never thought about.

1516
01:21:22,360 --> 01:21:24,400
Speaker 1: I thought about a lot when it comes to food plots,

1517
01:21:24,439 --> 01:21:27,479
Speaker 1: the benefit of strategically planning the shape of your food plot,

1518
01:21:27,800 --> 01:21:30,519
Speaker 1: but when it came to, you know, improving timber habitat

1519
01:21:30,560 --> 01:21:32,479
Speaker 1: or bedding cover, I'd always kind of I just kind

1520
01:21:32,479 --> 01:21:33,920
Speaker 1: of make a block and you cut it all, or

1521
01:21:34,000 --> 01:21:37,080
Speaker 1: you do whatever kind of practices that you want to implement. Um.

1522
01:21:37,120 --> 01:21:39,479
Speaker 1: But can you speak to why you might want to

1523
01:21:39,479 --> 01:21:43,240
Speaker 1: be a little bit more thoughtful with the shapes? Sure? Well,

1524
01:21:43,600 --> 01:21:47,400
Speaker 1: for one, uh, you know, different shapes of the same

1525
01:21:47,479 --> 01:21:50,439
Speaker 1: area are going to have different perimeters, that is to say,

1526
01:21:50,439 --> 01:21:53,479
Speaker 1: different amounts of edge. Um. And beyond that, I think

1527
01:21:53,479 --> 01:21:55,720
Speaker 1: another thing I mentioned in that article is getting near

1528
01:21:55,760 --> 01:21:58,559
Speaker 1: the edges of those patch cuts are clear cuts you're

1529
01:21:58,600 --> 01:22:01,920
Speaker 1: planning and actually feathering, so that rather than having a

1530
01:22:02,080 --> 01:22:05,240
Speaker 1: heavily cleared area met a wall of timber, you've you've

1531
01:22:05,280 --> 01:22:09,280
Speaker 1: gradually thin in that surrounding area um, which uh you

1532
01:22:09,320 --> 01:22:12,639
Speaker 1: know can give you basically the interspersion of those older

1533
01:22:12,640 --> 01:22:15,160
Speaker 1: and younger trees and uh as far as a deer

1534
01:22:15,160 --> 01:22:16,840
Speaker 1: and hunting goes. It can also give you a good

1535
01:22:16,840 --> 01:22:19,600
Speaker 1: place to to hang a stand. Uh you know, have

1536
01:22:19,880 --> 01:22:21,920
Speaker 1: have trees that you can hang a stand on and

1537
01:22:22,200 --> 01:22:25,120
Speaker 1: be among some of that stuff that that's coming up. Um.

1538
01:22:25,280 --> 01:22:28,120
Speaker 1: Some of the more important points of choosing the shape

1539
01:22:28,120 --> 01:22:30,320
Speaker 1: of a cut um have to do with how much

1540
01:22:30,320 --> 01:22:33,320
Speaker 1: sunlight is reaching the ground when you're planning a clear

1541
01:22:33,360 --> 01:22:35,439
Speaker 1: cut or a patch cut. There are a number of

1542
01:22:35,439 --> 01:22:38,360
Speaker 1: different things that are influencing how many hours of direct

1543
01:22:38,439 --> 01:22:40,679
Speaker 1: sunlight you're getting. You know, you want to think about

1544
01:22:40,720 --> 01:22:42,840
Speaker 1: the aspect. Are you on a north face or a

1545
01:22:42,840 --> 01:22:45,360
Speaker 1: south face? Um. And not that there's anything you can

1546
01:22:45,400 --> 01:22:48,120
Speaker 1: do to influence that or to influence this, but um,

1547
01:22:48,160 --> 01:22:51,559
Speaker 1: your latitude is going to affect how much sunlight you're

1548
01:22:51,600 --> 01:22:53,559
Speaker 1: going to get in a cut of a given shape

1549
01:22:53,560 --> 01:22:56,439
Speaker 1: and slow position and all that. Um. And of course

1550
01:22:56,479 --> 01:22:58,400
Speaker 1: you know a shape, the shape of the cuts gonna

1551
01:22:58,479 --> 01:23:02,200
Speaker 1: influence that because you know, if you have a cut

1552
01:23:02,240 --> 01:23:05,840
Speaker 1: of a given area, you know the shape is going

1553
01:23:05,880 --> 01:23:09,280
Speaker 1: to influence how wide and opening you're creating. So if

1554
01:23:09,320 --> 01:23:11,840
Speaker 1: you're doing a linear cut, you might not get as

1555
01:23:11,920 --> 01:23:14,040
Speaker 1: much sunlight as you would in a cut of the

1556
01:23:14,080 --> 01:23:17,000
Speaker 1: same area that is closer to a circle or a

1557
01:23:17,040 --> 01:23:21,639
Speaker 1: square in shape. Uh and uh. You know, typically as

1558
01:23:21,680 --> 01:23:24,840
Speaker 1: a rule of thumb, UM, if you're trying to create

1559
01:23:24,880 --> 01:23:30,160
Speaker 1: a gap that's large enough to regenerate shade tolerance trees,

1560
01:23:30,560 --> 01:23:32,759
Speaker 1: you want to create a gap that's at least one

1561
01:23:32,960 --> 01:23:37,040
Speaker 1: times the width of the surrounding tree heights. If you

1562
01:23:37,080 --> 01:23:40,640
Speaker 1: want to regenerate shade intermediate trees. Uh. You know you

1563
01:23:40,720 --> 01:23:42,759
Speaker 1: look to create a gap that's one and a half

1564
01:23:42,800 --> 01:23:46,120
Speaker 1: times that total tree height of the surrounding trees. And

1565
01:23:46,160 --> 01:23:48,240
Speaker 1: if you want to create a gap that has enough

1566
01:23:48,439 --> 01:23:50,960
Speaker 1: direct sunlight for enough hours reaching the ground that you're

1567
01:23:50,960 --> 01:23:54,880
Speaker 1: gonna get shade intolerant trees, which are really sun loving species,

1568
01:23:55,080 --> 01:23:57,320
Speaker 1: you want that gap to be, you know, at least

1569
01:23:57,360 --> 01:24:00,160
Speaker 1: twice as high as a twice as wide as as

1570
01:24:00,200 --> 01:24:02,840
Speaker 1: the surrounding trees are high. And that's just the rule

1571
01:24:02,840 --> 01:24:04,800
Speaker 1: of thumb, of course, because as I mentioned, there are

1572
01:24:04,840 --> 01:24:07,439
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of factors, um such a

1573
01:24:07,479 --> 01:24:10,479
Speaker 1: slow position and latitude that are going to affect how

1574
01:24:10,479 --> 01:24:13,120
Speaker 1: many hours of direct sunlight your your cut is going

1575
01:24:13,120 --> 01:24:17,400
Speaker 1: to receive. You know something I didn't that we didn't

1576
01:24:17,400 --> 01:24:20,479
Speaker 1: really touch on, maybe quite enough, but that I'm thinking

1577
01:24:20,479 --> 01:24:23,120
Speaker 1: of as we go through all this, Through all this,

1578
01:24:23,200 --> 01:24:26,160
Speaker 1: I'm thinking to myself, there's a lot here, right, There's

1579
01:24:26,200 --> 01:24:28,719
Speaker 1: there's a lot of nuance, there's a lot of detail,

1580
01:24:29,360 --> 01:24:32,160
Speaker 1: um And and if I ever thought to myself of

1581
01:24:32,280 --> 01:24:35,320
Speaker 1: going out into my woods, if I had a block

1582
01:24:35,400 --> 01:24:37,439
Speaker 1: and trying to figure all this stuff out on my own,

1583
01:24:37,479 --> 01:24:40,720
Speaker 1: I would be very intimidated by it. And so this

1584
01:24:40,800 --> 01:24:44,680
Speaker 1: leads me to the question of and you you kind

1585
01:24:44,680 --> 01:24:46,360
Speaker 1: of alluded to this a little bit. Mag touched on

1586
01:24:46,439 --> 01:24:49,479
Speaker 1: us a bit, But it seems like bringing a forster

1587
01:24:50,000 --> 01:24:52,960
Speaker 1: is a is a good option if you feel that way. Um,

1588
01:24:53,000 --> 01:24:55,280
Speaker 1: but how do you go about finding a forster? How

1589
01:24:55,320 --> 01:24:58,559
Speaker 1: do you go about getting someone like the right kind

1590
01:24:58,600 --> 01:25:01,320
Speaker 1: of forster? You did an article about this, Matt, Um,

1591
01:25:01,439 --> 01:25:03,280
Speaker 1: can you can you just give us a little bit

1592
01:25:03,320 --> 01:25:05,800
Speaker 1: more detail if we're listening to this and we're like, oh,

1593
01:25:05,920 --> 01:25:09,080
Speaker 1: holy smokes, I'm overwhelmed. How do I actually find the

1594
01:25:09,160 --> 01:25:10,880
Speaker 1: right person to help me with us and not just

1595
01:25:11,160 --> 01:25:13,519
Speaker 1: you know, pick the first force I see in the

1596
01:25:13,560 --> 01:25:17,920
Speaker 1: Google results. Sure, yeah, that's funny. It's an article that

1597
01:25:17,960 --> 01:25:19,960
Speaker 1: we just put on our website a couple of weeks

1598
01:25:20,000 --> 01:25:22,800
Speaker 1: ago that I had written. It was inspired because I

1599
01:25:22,800 --> 01:25:26,599
Speaker 1: had a member reach out to me through social media

1600
01:25:26,880 --> 01:25:29,280
Speaker 1: and said, uh, hey, yeah, I get a question for you,

1601
01:25:29,320 --> 01:25:31,800
Speaker 1: And it just sparked the thought because it was my

1602
01:25:32,840 --> 01:25:34,760
Speaker 1: dou dat to write something, and it was like, this

1603
01:25:34,840 --> 01:25:39,080
Speaker 1: is something I get asked all the time. Um. And honestly,

1604
01:25:39,520 --> 01:25:41,800
Speaker 1: I was just talking to another colleague this morning about

1605
01:25:41,840 --> 01:25:44,559
Speaker 1: the exact same question. Um. One of our co op

1606
01:25:44,600 --> 01:25:48,360
Speaker 1: guys in Missouri had a similar thing happened to him. UM.

1607
01:25:48,360 --> 01:25:50,800
Speaker 1: My advice is generally pretty simple, as you want to

1608
01:25:50,800 --> 01:25:53,960
Speaker 1: find a forceter that gets deer hunting and hopefully they're

1609
01:25:53,960 --> 01:25:57,280
Speaker 1: a deer hunter. UM. Even better if you can find

1610
01:25:57,320 --> 01:26:01,320
Speaker 1: somebody that's ACUITIA MAY member or have worked with Q

1611
01:26:01,520 --> 01:26:04,400
Speaker 1: and MAY members if they're not one. And one way

1612
01:26:04,439 --> 01:26:07,320
Speaker 1: you can do that is we are obviously a UM

1613
01:26:07,600 --> 01:26:10,479
Speaker 1: conservation organization. We have members and we have local branches

1614
01:26:10,520 --> 01:26:13,320
Speaker 1: all across the country. There's a map on our website.

1615
01:26:13,360 --> 01:26:16,200
Speaker 1: You can click on your home state or province and

1616
01:26:16,200 --> 01:26:18,559
Speaker 1: see if there's a branch near you. Contact them. They

1617
01:26:18,560 --> 01:26:22,439
Speaker 1: have a contact information. Uh, maybe even get involved with

1618
01:26:22,439 --> 01:26:26,120
Speaker 1: that branch and uh, you know there's likely somebody there

1619
01:26:26,160 --> 01:26:30,080
Speaker 1: that's probably used a forrester. Personal recommendation is always a

1620
01:26:30,120 --> 01:26:33,719
Speaker 1: great way to find somebody, and particularly if you're talking

1621
01:26:33,760 --> 01:26:36,920
Speaker 1: to a fellow deer hunter that's into deer management, UM,

1622
01:26:37,000 --> 01:26:39,160
Speaker 1: you're probably gonna get a good referral. So that that's

1623
01:26:39,200 --> 01:26:41,639
Speaker 1: one way to do it I talked about in that article.

1624
01:26:42,120 --> 01:26:44,720
Speaker 1: Another is ke you may actually has a program to

1625
01:26:44,800 --> 01:26:48,720
Speaker 1: certify lands. It's called our Land Certification program, where we

1626
01:26:48,760 --> 01:26:53,320
Speaker 1: have inspectors listed. Many of them have forestry uh backgrounds,

1627
01:26:53,360 --> 01:26:55,960
Speaker 1: a lot of more foresters. UM, you can mind that

1628
01:26:56,040 --> 01:27:01,640
Speaker 1: list for folks that are listed on our website. UM.

1629
01:27:01,800 --> 01:27:03,760
Speaker 1: Not all of them are force or some of them

1630
01:27:03,760 --> 01:27:07,040
Speaker 1: have strictly wildlife background whether that's another opportunity. And you

1631
01:27:07,040 --> 01:27:10,400
Speaker 1: can also enroll and in that program and get your

1632
01:27:10,400 --> 01:27:13,720
Speaker 1: property certified. That's what they're there for. UM. You know,

1633
01:27:13,800 --> 01:27:15,720
Speaker 1: so there are there are different ways, but generally you

1634
01:27:15,720 --> 01:27:18,559
Speaker 1: want to if you find somebody that's as passionate about

1635
01:27:18,560 --> 01:27:21,599
Speaker 1: deer hunting as you are. UM, they're and they're trained

1636
01:27:21,600 --> 01:27:25,120
Speaker 1: in silver culture or forced management, they're likely going to

1637
01:27:25,160 --> 01:27:28,240
Speaker 1: get what we're talking about. And um, you know, along

1638
01:27:28,280 --> 01:27:32,439
Speaker 1: the lines of sculpting or you're talking about directional planning.

1639
01:27:32,439 --> 01:27:35,639
Speaker 1: In terms of your habitat, it's okay to not treat

1640
01:27:35,680 --> 01:27:38,160
Speaker 1: every you know, square foot of your property. In fact,

1641
01:27:38,160 --> 01:27:39,799
Speaker 1: if you want to, and I know, Mark you wrote

1642
01:27:39,880 --> 01:27:42,200
Speaker 1: something like this for years ago for our magazine about

1643
01:27:42,240 --> 01:27:45,680
Speaker 1: having those dear deserts right, you can not treat some

1644
01:27:45,760 --> 01:27:49,480
Speaker 1: of your property, um, with the hope that it influences

1645
01:27:49,520 --> 01:27:53,400
Speaker 1: deer to not be there. I mean, that's that's certainly important,

1646
01:27:54,000 --> 01:27:57,799
Speaker 1: UM to think about any time that you can manage

1647
01:27:57,800 --> 01:28:02,720
Speaker 1: the property, get good food cover on the ground. UM.

1648
01:28:02,760 --> 01:28:06,200
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say go to on the extreme and manage

1649
01:28:06,240 --> 01:28:08,200
Speaker 1: only small parts. I would actually go to the other

1650
01:28:08,280 --> 01:28:10,479
Speaker 1: direction of that continuum and try to manage most of

1651
01:28:10,520 --> 01:28:14,280
Speaker 1: your property most maximum food and cover on the food

1652
01:28:14,280 --> 01:28:16,839
Speaker 1: would be maximum benefits. So if you want to see

1653
01:28:17,360 --> 01:28:20,640
Speaker 1: deer hit their their highest potential for antler size and

1654
01:28:20,680 --> 01:28:23,479
Speaker 1: body weights per age class, you need lots of food

1655
01:28:23,520 --> 01:28:25,760
Speaker 1: and cover on the ground. So to do that, you

1656
01:28:25,800 --> 01:28:28,559
Speaker 1: need a lot of airs treated. So I wouldn't push

1657
01:28:28,600 --> 01:28:31,800
Speaker 1: the dear desert extreme to where you leave very little

1658
01:28:31,880 --> 01:28:35,800
Speaker 1: your property managed. UM. I would manage most of it,

1659
01:28:35,840 --> 01:28:38,639
Speaker 1: but maybe leave little blocks here there it might help

1660
01:28:38,680 --> 01:28:41,960
Speaker 1: in terms of dear movement. UM. So the person that's

1661
01:28:41,960 --> 01:28:46,360
Speaker 1: feeling a little bit overwhelmed by the discussion, the first

1662
01:28:46,360 --> 01:28:49,599
Speaker 1: thing would be to reach out to somebody, um uh,

1663
01:28:49,640 --> 01:28:51,960
Speaker 1: to talk to a forest or somebody that's trained in it.

1664
01:28:52,040 --> 01:28:54,479
Speaker 1: But you know, in all honesty, Mark, even with some

1665
01:28:54,560 --> 01:28:57,839
Speaker 1: of that UM and I'm a big proponent on working

1666
01:28:57,840 --> 01:29:00,800
Speaker 1: with license or certified foresters, trying to find somebody that's

1667
01:29:00,880 --> 01:29:04,200
Speaker 1: a professional. UM, there's still a lot you can do,

1668
01:29:04,720 --> 01:29:07,840
Speaker 1: whether if you're able to on land that you either

1669
01:29:08,000 --> 01:29:10,040
Speaker 1: own or have access to, and they'll let you treat

1670
01:29:10,120 --> 01:29:13,120
Speaker 1: some things. Um, you can do a lot of work.

1671
01:29:13,120 --> 01:29:16,559
Speaker 1: You know this, you know with the chainsaw, score bottle

1672
01:29:16,920 --> 01:29:21,160
Speaker 1: and influence. What's there the general idea of trying to

1673
01:29:21,200 --> 01:29:24,280
Speaker 1: influence growth at the ground levels. You've got to get

1674
01:29:24,320 --> 01:29:26,719
Speaker 1: some light to come in. I mean, that's the simplest rule.

1675
01:29:27,120 --> 01:29:30,280
Speaker 1: And by removing some of the canopy, if you can

1676
01:29:30,360 --> 01:29:35,280
Speaker 1: reduce that at least to that like sixty mark where

1677
01:29:36,640 --> 01:29:40,960
Speaker 1: of the sky is open, of the sky's open, that's

1678
01:29:40,960 --> 01:29:45,200
Speaker 1: when you start influencing growth. It's that predictability that Tim

1679
01:29:45,240 --> 01:29:48,080
Speaker 1: and I have been talking about what's going to grow back?

1680
01:29:48,120 --> 01:29:50,960
Speaker 1: There is where you really need the professional advice to

1681
01:29:51,000 --> 01:29:53,200
Speaker 1: come in. UM. And then also you don't want to

1682
01:29:53,240 --> 01:29:56,760
Speaker 1: miss opportunities. UM. You don't want to kill or cut

1683
01:29:56,800 --> 01:29:59,640
Speaker 1: down a tree that might be valuable because then you

1684
01:29:59,720 --> 01:30:01,479
Speaker 1: just you and yourself in the front in terms of

1685
01:30:01,520 --> 01:30:03,280
Speaker 1: if the tree had value in it and you cut

1686
01:30:03,320 --> 01:30:07,000
Speaker 1: it down, UM, you know you're you're taking that away

1687
01:30:07,000 --> 01:30:10,000
Speaker 1: from yourself. You basically you are throwing money out the window,

1688
01:30:10,040 --> 01:30:12,160
Speaker 1: which we don't like to see. You should make that

1689
01:30:12,240 --> 01:30:15,280
Speaker 1: money your property grew it or your grandfathers or grandparents

1690
01:30:15,520 --> 01:30:18,600
Speaker 1: or parents property grew it. That's standing money there. You

1691
01:30:18,640 --> 01:30:21,479
Speaker 1: might as well utilize it. So that's another thing. And

1692
01:30:21,479 --> 01:30:24,800
Speaker 1: then obviously in the respect of having an operator in

1693
01:30:24,840 --> 01:30:29,200
Speaker 1: there where a forester comes in, most forestry operations don't

1694
01:30:29,240 --> 01:30:34,240
Speaker 1: have hired contractors. They work with subcontractors and uh those

1695
01:30:34,280 --> 01:30:36,880
Speaker 1: people could folks that are logging, they come in, they

1696
01:30:36,920 --> 01:30:40,400
Speaker 1: have insurance, they're trained. You can treat way more acreage.

1697
01:30:40,840 --> 01:30:43,719
Speaker 1: You know, there's a lot of good that comes into

1698
01:30:43,800 --> 01:30:46,880
Speaker 1: paying somebody to come in and mark the timber, sell

1699
01:30:46,960 --> 01:30:49,360
Speaker 1: the timber for you. You make more money. I mean,

1700
01:30:49,400 --> 01:30:52,760
Speaker 1: I can go on and on about all that. UM

1701
01:30:52,800 --> 01:30:55,240
Speaker 1: just based on if you think of it this way,

1702
01:30:55,360 --> 01:30:57,880
Speaker 1: if you were to try to do it yourself and

1703
01:30:58,240 --> 01:31:01,240
Speaker 1: you wanted an outlet to sell out, would and you

1704
01:31:01,280 --> 01:31:03,519
Speaker 1: were just going around and trying to sell it, you know,

1705
01:31:03,840 --> 01:31:06,920
Speaker 1: in whatever means way you could. Uh, when you work

1706
01:31:06,960 --> 01:31:12,200
Speaker 1: with a forrester that has a lot of UM, a

1707
01:31:12,320 --> 01:31:16,160
Speaker 1: client base that's broad and is working with lots of landowners,

1708
01:31:16,600 --> 01:31:21,400
Speaker 1: the pure supply that they provide UM, you know, mills

1709
01:31:21,439 --> 01:31:23,920
Speaker 1: and things like that is much much much greater than

1710
01:31:23,960 --> 01:31:25,720
Speaker 1: you would be able to do by yourself and they

1711
01:31:25,720 --> 01:31:28,920
Speaker 1: can demand higher prices for it, you know, because they're

1712
01:31:28,920 --> 01:31:31,160
Speaker 1: supplying them with so much more wood, So you actually

1713
01:31:31,200 --> 01:31:33,439
Speaker 1: can make more money by by doing that. It's one

1714
01:31:33,479 --> 01:31:35,960
Speaker 1: of my soapbox things that I like to talk about.

1715
01:31:36,000 --> 01:31:39,240
Speaker 1: So I'd say, if you feel overwhelmed, you're not going

1716
01:31:39,320 --> 01:31:42,479
Speaker 1: to be paying to use somebody to get professional lice.

1717
01:31:42,560 --> 01:31:45,360
Speaker 1: There's a lot of free resources out there through your

1718
01:31:45,360 --> 01:31:49,880
Speaker 1: state wildlife, state agencies, through your state forestry agency. UM.

1719
01:31:49,920 --> 01:31:54,040
Speaker 1: In some parts of the world. UM. You know, you

1720
01:31:54,040 --> 01:31:57,679
Speaker 1: can even to get advice through your cooperative extension service.

1721
01:31:58,240 --> 01:32:01,559
Speaker 1: Where I mentioneding that I went to school in New Hampshire.

1722
01:32:01,800 --> 01:32:04,719
Speaker 1: There are county based forresters that that is certainly a case.

1723
01:32:04,760 --> 01:32:08,920
Speaker 1: In some state wildlife agencies, they have private lands forresters,

1724
01:32:08,960 --> 01:32:12,680
Speaker 1: private lands conservationists and biologists. There are free resources out

1725
01:32:12,720 --> 01:32:16,240
Speaker 1: there for you. Tim is one he's he's in New York.

1726
01:32:16,320 --> 01:32:21,560
Speaker 1: Other other conservation organizations like ourselves have have those resources.

1727
01:32:21,640 --> 01:32:24,479
Speaker 1: But if you ended up going with a consultant to

1728
01:32:24,760 --> 01:32:28,000
Speaker 1: come in and basically work for you, uh, they are

1729
01:32:28,040 --> 01:32:30,160
Speaker 1: going to work for you, and that means make you

1730
01:32:30,200 --> 01:32:33,080
Speaker 1: the most money if it's possible. So it certainly is

1731
01:32:33,120 --> 01:32:36,680
Speaker 1: a good way to do it. Um. And you know

1732
01:32:36,720 --> 01:32:38,800
Speaker 1: what they can your mark project that you can do

1733
01:32:38,880 --> 01:32:42,599
Speaker 1: for yourself. Um, and say, hey, listen, I marked every

1734
01:32:42,640 --> 01:32:45,840
Speaker 1: tree you need to get rid of either girl and

1735
01:32:45,920 --> 01:32:48,080
Speaker 1: spray or cut it down. And then you go out

1736
01:32:48,080 --> 01:32:51,000
Speaker 1: there and do the silla equity. Um. You know there

1737
01:32:51,040 --> 01:32:54,960
Speaker 1: there's there's certainly nuances of how you can do these things.

1738
01:32:54,960 --> 01:32:58,640
Speaker 1: You don't have to just hand everything over to somebody else. Yeah,

1739
01:32:58,800 --> 01:33:01,000
Speaker 1: and and and that was one the questions I had

1740
01:33:01,160 --> 01:33:03,120
Speaker 1: was about the the d I Y option. If you

1741
01:33:03,200 --> 01:33:04,840
Speaker 1: wanted to kind of try to do a lot of

1742
01:33:04,840 --> 01:33:07,479
Speaker 1: this yourself, it sounds like there's still benefits to bringing

1743
01:33:07,479 --> 01:33:10,679
Speaker 1: in a consultant of some kind. Um. So I want

1744
01:33:10,680 --> 01:33:13,880
Speaker 1: to first better understand the free options if I want

1745
01:33:13,960 --> 01:33:16,439
Speaker 1: to try to get some free help. Does it sound

1746
01:33:16,439 --> 01:33:19,479
Speaker 1: like the first step is just contacting your state game

1747
01:33:19,520 --> 01:33:21,880
Speaker 1: agency and say, hey, do we have some kind of

1748
01:33:21,920 --> 01:33:24,680
Speaker 1: program within Michigan to help with this kind of thing?

1749
01:33:24,680 --> 01:33:27,280
Speaker 1: And then there'll be someone who can direct me around.

1750
01:33:27,400 --> 01:33:29,760
Speaker 1: Is that kind of how to start the looking for

1751
01:33:29,840 --> 01:33:33,240
Speaker 1: free help process? How would always go with whatever the

1752
01:33:33,960 --> 01:33:36,600
Speaker 1: government agency is that's in charge of forestry and or

1753
01:33:36,680 --> 01:33:39,479
Speaker 1: Wilby it's because if they know, if you contacted your

1754
01:33:39,479 --> 01:33:41,960
Speaker 1: wildlife department, you know, they're all under the same roof

1755
01:33:42,000 --> 01:33:44,960
Speaker 1: in most places. But um, and saying I'm interested in

1756
01:33:45,040 --> 01:33:48,040
Speaker 1: having some forestry advice, UM, they're probably gonna send you

1757
01:33:48,040 --> 01:33:52,000
Speaker 1: over to the forestry side of things, UM advice first.

1758
01:33:52,560 --> 01:33:55,479
Speaker 1: You know. A lot of times though, getting back to

1759
01:33:55,560 --> 01:33:58,599
Speaker 1: that comment about you know, I'm really interested in deer hunting,

1760
01:33:58,840 --> 01:34:01,559
Speaker 1: I think that's where that's born from. I'm not saying

1761
01:34:01,560 --> 01:34:04,160
Speaker 1: not to call free management advice. Certainly is there. Our

1762
01:34:04,200 --> 01:34:06,760
Speaker 1: taxpayer money pays for it. But a lot of time

1763
01:34:06,880 --> 01:34:11,240
Speaker 1: those folks are not maybe on the same um sheet

1764
01:34:11,280 --> 01:34:13,599
Speaker 1: of music, I guess because they might not be deer

1765
01:34:13,640 --> 01:34:16,320
Speaker 1: unders they went to forestry school, or it would be

1766
01:34:16,320 --> 01:34:17,880
Speaker 1: a little bit of a long shot to try to

1767
01:34:17,920 --> 01:34:21,000
Speaker 1: find somebody that's really really interested in deer hunting. Um

1768
01:34:21,040 --> 01:34:23,400
Speaker 1: where it's gonna you're it's gonna take some due diligence

1769
01:34:23,439 --> 01:34:25,280
Speaker 1: on the person that they're asking. You gotta ask a

1770
01:34:25,360 --> 01:34:28,280
Speaker 1: lot of questions, um, you know, and find the person

1771
01:34:28,320 --> 01:34:30,439
Speaker 1: that fits well with you. But there are certainly lots

1772
01:34:30,439 --> 01:34:33,160
Speaker 1: of free options. And not only is that, I mean,

1773
01:34:33,200 --> 01:34:35,360
Speaker 1: I know in your case in Michigan, there's there's some

1774
01:34:35,400 --> 01:34:37,960
Speaker 1: really good options just based on some friends I know

1775
01:34:38,040 --> 01:34:41,280
Speaker 1: through our organization UM that get deer onting that our

1776
01:34:41,320 --> 01:34:43,880
Speaker 1: q d m A members. I mean, it's it certainly exists.

1777
01:34:44,400 --> 01:34:46,519
Speaker 1: Just might do take a little bit more flipping through

1778
01:34:46,560 --> 01:34:49,559
Speaker 1: the playbook to find somebody. Yeah, now, what if we

1779
01:34:49,600 --> 01:34:53,760
Speaker 1: want to bring in uh a force your consultant that

1780
01:34:53,760 --> 01:34:58,360
Speaker 1: that would be a paid situation. Obviously payments would be

1781
01:34:58,400 --> 01:35:01,120
Speaker 1: different depending on who and where and but can you

1782
01:35:01,120 --> 01:35:03,240
Speaker 1: give me any kind of ballpark or how costs is

1783
01:35:03,240 --> 01:35:05,640
Speaker 1: applied or anything? Just if I'm thinking about this, what

1784
01:35:05,720 --> 01:35:07,320
Speaker 1: am I thinking about to bring in something like this?

1785
01:35:07,360 --> 01:35:09,600
Speaker 1: Is this like a two bucks for a day or

1786
01:35:09,720 --> 01:35:12,400
Speaker 1: is this like x percentage of the project we plan

1787
01:35:12,479 --> 01:35:15,280
Speaker 1: on doing? How does that work? There's all different ways

1788
01:35:15,520 --> 01:35:17,920
Speaker 1: that it can happen, uh And I hate to say

1789
01:35:18,040 --> 01:35:20,200
Speaker 1: it depends, but it depends on what you're asking for.

1790
01:35:20,280 --> 01:35:22,960
Speaker 1: So if you're looking for a management plan, like to

1791
01:35:23,000 --> 01:35:24,800
Speaker 1: have them come in and write a plan for you

1792
01:35:25,200 --> 01:35:28,000
Speaker 1: with no operations in the woods, but basically give you

1793
01:35:28,040 --> 01:35:31,800
Speaker 1: a document. UM that typically is the cost, but there

1794
01:35:31,800 --> 01:35:34,760
Speaker 1: are definitely cost share options and we can get part

1795
01:35:34,800 --> 01:35:37,799
Speaker 1: of that paid off. They're definitely free options again, management

1796
01:35:37,800 --> 01:35:43,200
Speaker 1: plans written through different federal and state programs. Um, if

1797
01:35:43,200 --> 01:35:45,880
Speaker 1: they're coming in to cut timber, and there's commercial timber,

1798
01:35:46,040 --> 01:35:49,160
Speaker 1: typically an initial visits not going to cost you anything.

1799
01:35:49,160 --> 01:35:51,080
Speaker 1: That they're they're getting to know you. You're going to

1800
01:35:51,160 --> 01:35:54,240
Speaker 1: get to know that that that is certainly uh, the

1801
01:35:54,240 --> 01:35:57,519
Speaker 1: most common thing is, hey, they want to find out

1802
01:35:57,560 --> 01:36:01,000
Speaker 1: what you need, what you're looking for, and then you

1803
01:36:01,040 --> 01:36:02,720
Speaker 1: know vice versa that you're trying to figure out if

1804
01:36:02,680 --> 01:36:05,400
Speaker 1: there's the right fit for you. Um. Sometimes it's a

1805
01:36:05,400 --> 01:36:08,479
Speaker 1: combination of not only writing a plan, but doing an

1806
01:36:08,520 --> 01:36:12,320
Speaker 1: inventory to figure what's out there, eventually doing a commercial harvest.

1807
01:36:12,400 --> 01:36:15,400
Speaker 1: Sometimes that can all be wrapped up under one contract

1808
01:36:15,880 --> 01:36:19,240
Speaker 1: where uh, they are going to eventually cut some wood

1809
01:36:19,240 --> 01:36:21,439
Speaker 1: there and it can be paid for from the from

1810
01:36:21,479 --> 01:36:24,120
Speaker 1: the sale. UM. You know, to have a management plan.

1811
01:36:24,439 --> 01:36:28,599
Speaker 1: There's also tax incentives to get tax breaks on your property,

1812
01:36:28,640 --> 01:36:30,320
Speaker 1: and there's certainly a lot of ways to get plans

1813
01:36:30,320 --> 01:36:32,840
Speaker 1: there too, and tim feel free to jump in. But

1814
01:36:32,880 --> 01:36:35,240
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm trying to make it not as confusing,

1815
01:36:35,240 --> 01:36:38,400
Speaker 1: but it's hard to answer that question based on Unfortunately

1816
01:36:38,400 --> 01:36:41,280
Speaker 1: it is confusing, especially you know here in New York

1817
01:36:41,320 --> 01:36:44,760
Speaker 1: there are so many different programs that involve different agencies

1818
01:36:45,000 --> 01:36:47,840
Speaker 1: tax breaks, you know, getting funny, so you know, New

1819
01:36:47,920 --> 01:36:50,720
Speaker 1: York State offers a program where in New York land

1820
01:36:50,720 --> 01:36:53,800
Speaker 1: owners who get a four stry plan written and agree

1821
01:36:53,840 --> 01:36:56,280
Speaker 1: to follow it, they get a tax break. Then there's

1822
01:36:56,360 --> 01:36:58,960
Speaker 1: the NRCS and they've got equipped and you can get

1823
01:36:59,280 --> 01:37:02,760
Speaker 1: funding to have a plan written by a consultant who

1824
01:37:02,760 --> 01:37:04,680
Speaker 1: you hire, and then they'll offer you funding for that

1825
01:37:04,760 --> 01:37:06,760
Speaker 1: and then also funding for other things like getting t

1826
01:37:06,920 --> 01:37:09,280
Speaker 1: S I marked, getting t S I caught, that sort

1827
01:37:09,280 --> 01:37:11,439
Speaker 1: of thing, and you know, that's a different program, and

1828
01:37:11,479 --> 01:37:15,040
Speaker 1: they typically expect that consultant to be a technical service provider.

1829
01:37:15,360 --> 01:37:17,559
Speaker 1: I know that in the New York City, in the

1830
01:37:17,560 --> 01:37:22,360
Speaker 1: New York City Watershed, the Watershed Agricultural Council, they offer

1831
01:37:22,439 --> 01:37:25,200
Speaker 1: funding for plans where they'll they'll pay to have a

1832
01:37:25,240 --> 01:37:28,360
Speaker 1: consultant come out and UH write a forest management plan.

1833
01:37:28,479 --> 01:37:31,080
Speaker 1: So it actually can be tough to navigate. UM I

1834
01:37:31,120 --> 01:37:33,240
Speaker 1: know d EC they'll come out and they're they're state

1835
01:37:33,280 --> 01:37:35,479
Speaker 1: foresters will will sometimes come out for the day and

1836
01:37:35,479 --> 01:37:37,840
Speaker 1: write a for stewardship plan. So there's a number of

1837
01:37:37,840 --> 01:37:40,760
Speaker 1: different routes you can go. UH as far as how

1838
01:37:41,000 --> 01:37:44,240
Speaker 1: forresters charge when it comes to a management plan. Some

1839
01:37:44,320 --> 01:37:46,720
Speaker 1: of them do it on a per acre basis UM.

1840
01:37:46,800 --> 01:37:49,280
Speaker 1: Most of them have in an hourly rate that they'll

1841
01:37:49,280 --> 01:37:54,680
Speaker 1: sometimes base calculations off of UM. A lot of them

1842
01:37:54,680 --> 01:37:57,200
Speaker 1: do charge a percentage when it comes to administering a

1843
01:37:57,280 --> 01:37:59,799
Speaker 1: timber sale, But as far as some of the management

1844
01:38:00,080 --> 01:38:02,280
Speaker 1: ending goes, a lot of them are just sort of

1845
01:38:02,280 --> 01:38:04,640
Speaker 1: trying to cover their time and sustain themselves and not

1846
01:38:04,720 --> 01:38:07,160
Speaker 1: earn too much money really off of the management plans.

1847
01:38:07,479 --> 01:38:10,080
Speaker 1: But you know, cover you know, cover their calls, make

1848
01:38:10,120 --> 01:38:12,519
Speaker 1: a little bit of money off of the management planning

1849
01:38:12,560 --> 01:38:15,320
Speaker 1: in hopes that they'll have a relationship with that landowner

1850
01:38:15,400 --> 01:38:18,080
Speaker 1: so that they can be the person to make some

1851
01:38:18,160 --> 01:38:21,599
Speaker 1: money when it comes to administering the timber sale for them. Uh.

1852
01:38:21,640 --> 01:38:23,680
Speaker 1: That's that's really where a lot of a lot of

1853
01:38:24,040 --> 01:38:27,760
Speaker 1: consultants do better because landowners know that they're they're you

1854
01:38:27,840 --> 01:38:30,479
Speaker 1: know overall, even even paying a consultant going to do

1855
01:38:30,560 --> 01:38:34,000
Speaker 1: better by having that timber sale administered with somebody in

1856
01:38:34,040 --> 01:38:37,599
Speaker 1: their corner, particularly when it is a sizeable timber sale.

1857
01:38:38,000 --> 01:38:43,280
Speaker 1: So yeah, unfortunately, can't be uh simple answer, but there

1858
01:38:43,360 --> 01:38:45,639
Speaker 1: there are a lot of opportunities out there to explore.

1859
01:38:46,320 --> 01:38:49,160
Speaker 1: So would it be safe to say that if I'm

1860
01:38:49,160 --> 01:38:52,639
Speaker 1: a landowner and I want to if I'm just looking

1861
01:38:52,640 --> 01:38:55,040
Speaker 1: at this from a from a hunting perspective, and I'm thinking, Hey,

1862
01:38:55,080 --> 01:38:56,920
Speaker 1: I know I've got all this timber. It's not doing

1863
01:38:56,960 --> 01:38:59,040
Speaker 1: me a whole lot of good because mature it's it's

1864
01:38:59,080 --> 01:39:01,320
Speaker 1: a mono culture. It's big, wide open block of the

1865
01:39:01,360 --> 01:39:03,000
Speaker 1: same thing. I know. I want to do something to

1866
01:39:03,040 --> 01:39:07,479
Speaker 1: improve for wildlife habitat. Would it be safe to say that,

1867
01:39:08,600 --> 01:39:11,880
Speaker 1: whether it be through timber sale of marketable timber on

1868
01:39:11,920 --> 01:39:15,920
Speaker 1: that chunk, and or through tax breaks, and or through

1869
01:39:16,080 --> 01:39:20,840
Speaker 1: government programs that help fund certain desired types of habitat practices,

1870
01:39:21,400 --> 01:39:26,760
Speaker 1: that I can get a management action taken on my

1871
01:39:26,840 --> 01:39:30,519
Speaker 1: hunting property that will improve my hunting and improve wildlife habitat.

1872
01:39:30,720 --> 01:39:32,960
Speaker 1: I can do that, and there are ways to help

1873
01:39:33,040 --> 01:39:35,800
Speaker 1: cover that and or completely cover the costs, or at

1874
01:39:35,840 --> 01:39:38,760
Speaker 1: least help with the costs of making that change if

1875
01:39:38,800 --> 01:39:43,200
Speaker 1: I were to take advantage of these previously listed um

1876
01:39:43,520 --> 01:39:47,080
Speaker 1: uh benefits. That's that's right, right. We shouldn't just go

1877
01:39:47,120 --> 01:39:48,759
Speaker 1: in there and think we gotta cut everything down ourselves.

1878
01:39:48,800 --> 01:39:51,160
Speaker 1: It's gonna cost ten dollars to do it. We can

1879
01:39:51,200 --> 01:39:52,479
Speaker 1: actually look at this as a way of hey, we

1880
01:39:52,560 --> 01:39:56,040
Speaker 1: might be able to get free habitat improvement or cost assistance.

1881
01:39:56,080 --> 01:39:57,800
Speaker 1: We just kind of habitat improvement. But we have to

1882
01:39:57,800 --> 01:40:01,160
Speaker 1: take advantage of these different programs. I yeah, that is accurate.

1883
01:40:01,200 --> 01:40:05,240
Speaker 1: And I would say, um, having a plan from the

1884
01:40:05,320 --> 01:40:07,679
Speaker 1: forefront helps in a lot of different ways. And there's

1885
01:40:07,720 --> 01:40:10,639
Speaker 1: ways to either they either low costs are free based

1886
01:40:10,680 --> 01:40:14,120
Speaker 1: on what's out there. Um, you know. So I would say,

1887
01:40:14,120 --> 01:40:16,479
Speaker 1: if you don't have a manage a plan for your property,

1888
01:40:16,920 --> 01:40:19,040
Speaker 1: if you're interested in doing this, you want kind of

1889
01:40:19,040 --> 01:40:21,439
Speaker 1: a plan of action, right, Like Like if I were

1890
01:40:21,479 --> 01:40:24,240
Speaker 1: to leave my house right now without and I was

1891
01:40:24,320 --> 01:40:26,320
Speaker 1: trying to drive to where you are, Mark, and I

1892
01:40:26,360 --> 01:40:28,360
Speaker 1: had no idea where in Michigan you were, but I

1893
01:40:28,439 --> 01:40:30,800
Speaker 1: knew you were in Michigan and I just left, it

1894
01:40:30,840 --> 01:40:33,360
Speaker 1: would take me a lot longer than if I actually

1895
01:40:33,400 --> 01:40:35,320
Speaker 1: you send me your address and I put it into

1896
01:40:35,320 --> 01:40:37,280
Speaker 1: my GPS and I got straight there. Right. So a

1897
01:40:37,320 --> 01:40:40,559
Speaker 1: plan will get you someplace faster. So having a plan

1898
01:40:40,680 --> 01:40:45,160
Speaker 1: is important. Will spent one source the plan plan writers

1899
01:40:45,160 --> 01:40:47,519
Speaker 1: are free, there's ways to get them. Number two, I

1900
01:40:47,560 --> 01:40:51,840
Speaker 1: would want that plan to be integrated with both if

1901
01:40:51,840 --> 01:40:57,080
Speaker 1: there's enough value in the timber. With my wildlife centric goals,

1902
01:40:57,520 --> 01:41:01,560
Speaker 1: particularly dear qum A, we really stay a deer management

1903
01:41:01,560 --> 01:41:04,160
Speaker 1: plan template. It's free, it's a PDF you can sell out.

1904
01:41:04,520 --> 01:41:07,040
Speaker 1: It gives really good guidance. It's actually part of our

1905
01:41:07,200 --> 01:41:09,479
Speaker 1: dear Steward program, but it's a free document. You don't

1906
01:41:09,479 --> 01:41:11,599
Speaker 1: have to take dear Steward to get it. Get's posted

1907
01:41:11,600 --> 01:41:15,080
Speaker 1: on our website. Um I would say sit down with

1908
01:41:15,120 --> 01:41:17,840
Speaker 1: somebody if you're using a Forrester that does not get

1909
01:41:17,880 --> 01:41:20,960
Speaker 1: deer hunting, have them kind of go through well, either

1910
01:41:21,040 --> 01:41:23,400
Speaker 1: have them take dear Steward, which would be awesome for

1911
01:41:23,439 --> 01:41:27,679
Speaker 1: both you, the Forrester and for us UM at least

1912
01:41:27,680 --> 01:41:30,160
Speaker 1: have them sit down with that management plan template and

1913
01:41:30,200 --> 01:41:33,360
Speaker 1: talk through some of those concepts of hey, this is

1914
01:41:33,720 --> 01:41:36,120
Speaker 1: a concept of what I want to think of. So

1915
01:41:36,280 --> 01:41:41,240
Speaker 1: that your deer hunting goals and the land management timber

1916
01:41:41,320 --> 01:41:45,040
Speaker 1: specific goals are talking to each other. You know, obviously

1917
01:41:45,040 --> 01:41:47,800
Speaker 1: we talked about how all of this influence happened. So

1918
01:41:48,120 --> 01:41:50,439
Speaker 1: you don't want them going to be counter productive or

1919
01:41:50,479 --> 01:41:52,479
Speaker 1: you know, working against each other. You want them to

1920
01:41:52,520 --> 01:41:54,840
Speaker 1: be going in the same direction. So number one to

1921
01:41:54,880 --> 01:41:57,680
Speaker 1: have to get a plan written. Number two, make sure

1922
01:41:57,720 --> 01:42:01,800
Speaker 1: your deer hunting goals uh are married to your other

1923
01:42:01,880 --> 01:42:05,320
Speaker 1: land management goals. And then number three, the property is

1924
01:42:05,360 --> 01:42:09,599
Speaker 1: capable of having something done to it in terms of

1925
01:42:09,640 --> 01:42:12,960
Speaker 1: tree removal and manipulation of that for us, don't be

1926
01:42:13,000 --> 01:42:14,840
Speaker 1: scared of it. There's a lot of people. That's one

1927
01:42:14,840 --> 01:42:18,200
Speaker 1: thing we didn't talk about yet. Are you know clear

1928
01:42:18,240 --> 01:42:21,360
Speaker 1: cut has been a bad word. Uh. The mass that's

1929
01:42:21,479 --> 01:42:24,720
Speaker 1: left of cutting trees down. You know, people get very

1930
01:42:24,479 --> 01:42:30,120
Speaker 1: they don't like change, but it definitely influences deer and

1931
01:42:30,120 --> 01:42:34,040
Speaker 1: and in a good way. And I've gone over the

1932
01:42:34,120 --> 01:42:38,880
Speaker 1: years of being um probably less conservative to being I

1933
01:42:38,920 --> 01:42:41,959
Speaker 1: mean more conservative, being less conservative in terms of, okay,

1934
01:42:42,160 --> 01:42:44,920
Speaker 1: we want to influence dear nutrition at the highest scale.

1935
01:42:45,240 --> 01:42:47,080
Speaker 1: You gotta cut some timber, you gotta get you gotta

1936
01:42:47,120 --> 01:42:50,000
Speaker 1: get something down there. You gotta get deer eating stuff

1937
01:42:50,040 --> 01:42:53,439
Speaker 1: that grows in the ground. Because I mean, let's be honest, Mark,

1938
01:42:53,520 --> 01:42:56,120
Speaker 1: you know, most people that are doing things like putting

1939
01:42:56,120 --> 01:43:00,479
Speaker 1: feed out plots or you know, supplemental stuff, you're only

1940
01:43:00,520 --> 01:43:04,160
Speaker 1: treating a percent to a couple percent of your property, right,

1941
01:43:04,240 --> 01:43:07,960
Speaker 1: I mean, and even in agg dominated landscapes. That agriculture

1942
01:43:08,000 --> 01:43:10,200
Speaker 1: is there during the summer, but it's not once this

1943
01:43:10,320 --> 01:43:13,959
Speaker 1: stuff is harvested. So you're talking about the limiting resource

1944
01:43:14,040 --> 01:43:17,599
Speaker 1: for deer, particularly during the breeding season and when they're

1945
01:43:17,600 --> 01:43:21,200
Speaker 1: at their lowest point nutritionally in the winter, when there's

1946
01:43:21,240 --> 01:43:25,639
Speaker 1: nothing green and growing is relegated to forests. So why

1947
01:43:25,720 --> 01:43:29,280
Speaker 1: not give them the best benefit by cutting that stuff

1948
01:43:29,600 --> 01:43:31,639
Speaker 1: in a way that gives them food and cover where

1949
01:43:31,640 --> 01:43:34,320
Speaker 1: they want to be. Um, you know, all those folks

1950
01:43:34,320 --> 01:43:38,759
Speaker 1: out there that are interested in growing deer or managing

1951
01:43:38,840 --> 01:43:42,080
Speaker 1: deer for health and having them weeks of potential per

1952
01:43:42,120 --> 01:43:44,720
Speaker 1: age class you do that through forest You you can

1953
01:43:44,760 --> 01:43:48,559
Speaker 1: get some marginal gains by doing all the other things mentioned.

1954
01:43:48,560 --> 01:43:51,479
Speaker 1: They certainly help, but that doesn't care. Do what carries

1955
01:43:51,560 --> 01:43:53,280
Speaker 1: you with Where do you look? Deer live and a

1956
01:43:53,280 --> 01:43:56,120
Speaker 1: lot of that is in forests. And and it's is

1957
01:43:56,120 --> 01:44:00,320
Speaker 1: it fair to say that that forest management it really

1958
01:44:00,360 --> 01:44:03,200
Speaker 1: benefits so many other species to not just white tails. Right,

1959
01:44:03,240 --> 01:44:05,160
Speaker 1: if you're if you're trying to think about the holistic

1960
01:44:05,600 --> 01:44:08,680
Speaker 1: I felt, the whole ecology of your property and all

1961
01:44:08,680 --> 01:44:11,720
Speaker 1: the animals that are out there. Forestry management is a

1962
01:44:11,760 --> 01:44:17,040
Speaker 1: really important way to do that right, absolutely, it's the foundation.

1963
01:44:17,160 --> 01:44:19,920
Speaker 1: Tom Tim tell them about, you know, Young Forest initiative,

1964
01:44:20,280 --> 01:44:25,679
Speaker 1: how many species are influenced by that? Well sure, uh,

1965
01:44:25,880 --> 01:44:28,360
Speaker 1: of course you know. Q D m A is on

1966
01:44:28,400 --> 01:44:30,959
Speaker 1: board with the Young Forest Initiative because of the benefits

1967
01:44:31,000 --> 01:44:33,960
Speaker 1: that it offers to to deer. But white tails are

1968
01:44:33,960 --> 01:44:36,599
Speaker 1: not the number one species that are targeted by the

1969
01:44:36,640 --> 01:44:40,840
Speaker 1: overall initiative. There are other species like New England cotton tale,

1970
01:44:41,160 --> 01:44:45,600
Speaker 1: which it's it's range has seriously decreased because of a

1971
01:44:45,640 --> 01:44:47,880
Speaker 1: lot of forests growing older and not having that young

1972
01:44:47,920 --> 01:44:50,960
Speaker 1: forest on the on the landscape of the same as

1973
01:44:51,000 --> 01:44:54,200
Speaker 1: true with the American woodcock is another focal species for

1974
01:44:54,240 --> 01:44:59,080
Speaker 1: the Young Forest initiative. Golden winged warbler is another focal species,

1975
01:44:59,120 --> 01:45:02,559
Speaker 1: and they need young forest cover near the ground, uh

1976
01:45:02,600 --> 01:45:05,880
Speaker 1: you know, forbes and shrubs and sapling springing up where

1977
01:45:05,880 --> 01:45:09,080
Speaker 1: they've got some scattered over story trees as perch trees

1978
01:45:09,120 --> 01:45:12,400
Speaker 1: to do their singing display. Of course, rough grouse. There

1979
01:45:12,479 --> 01:45:14,160
Speaker 1: used to be a lot more rough grouse in New

1980
01:45:14,200 --> 01:45:16,840
Speaker 1: York than there are today. Um so yeah, I mean

1981
01:45:16,840 --> 01:45:20,640
Speaker 1: there's a very long list of of of songbirds and

1982
01:45:20,720 --> 01:45:23,280
Speaker 1: game birds and uh, you know, of course rabbits that

1983
01:45:23,400 --> 01:45:27,240
Speaker 1: uh that UM can can benefit greatly from having some

1984
01:45:27,320 --> 01:45:30,960
Speaker 1: of those earlier stages of forest development. You know something

1985
01:45:31,080 --> 01:45:35,960
Speaker 1: I was talking to someone recently about doing some forest management,

1986
01:45:36,000 --> 01:45:37,519
Speaker 1: and they were talking about how in the head of

1987
01:45:37,560 --> 01:45:39,439
Speaker 1: forest or come in they would they like to have

1988
01:45:39,479 --> 01:45:42,240
Speaker 1: all the tree tops cleared out and taken with them.

1989
01:45:42,520 --> 01:45:45,160
Speaker 1: And I was thinking to myself, why why would you

1990
01:45:45,200 --> 01:45:47,599
Speaker 1: want that? Like, wouldn't you want the tree tops left

1991
01:45:47,840 --> 01:45:51,040
Speaker 1: in some instances because because of just like those types

1992
01:45:51,080 --> 01:45:54,360
Speaker 1: of things like having cover valve for rabbits and other species,

1993
01:45:54,360 --> 01:45:56,880
Speaker 1: and you know, some some betting that deer might like

1994
01:45:56,960 --> 01:45:59,719
Speaker 1: to Is there anything to be said about that too? People,

1995
01:45:59,840 --> 01:46:01,360
Speaker 1: you really like to get rid of the tree tops?

1996
01:46:01,360 --> 01:46:04,120
Speaker 1: Do you leave them? Is that something that you would

1997
01:46:04,120 --> 01:46:06,760
Speaker 1: ever think about when making plans like this? When when

1998
01:46:06,760 --> 01:46:09,439
Speaker 1: the tree tops come out as part of the logging operation,

1999
01:46:09,520 --> 01:46:12,920
Speaker 1: it's often a whole tree shipping operation where that's just

2000
01:46:12,960 --> 01:46:15,439
Speaker 1: more efficient and it's all usable. So so there, that's

2001
01:46:15,439 --> 01:46:18,439
Speaker 1: what they're doing. Uh. In many of the cuts that

2002
01:46:18,560 --> 01:46:20,200
Speaker 1: we see here, and of course a lot of our

2003
01:46:20,240 --> 01:46:23,960
Speaker 1: forests are northern hardwoods, those tops are left behind initially

2004
01:46:24,120 --> 01:46:27,000
Speaker 1: as some of the larger saw logs and larger firewood

2005
01:46:27,080 --> 01:46:29,799
Speaker 1: is pulled out, those are left behind. Um. And sometimes

2006
01:46:29,840 --> 01:46:32,120
Speaker 1: that's put in the timber sail contract that the landowner

2007
01:46:32,160 --> 01:46:35,719
Speaker 1: retains those for the simple reason that it creates less

2008
01:46:35,720 --> 01:46:38,879
Speaker 1: erosion and less scarring of residual trees compared to dragging

2009
01:46:38,920 --> 01:46:42,280
Speaker 1: those those crowns out. Um. But what you're describing where

2010
01:46:42,280 --> 01:46:45,479
Speaker 1: people want to see the tops gone or commonly also

2011
01:46:45,520 --> 01:46:49,200
Speaker 1: included in contracts, the tops are lopped down. Sometimes the

2012
01:46:49,280 --> 01:46:51,880
Speaker 1: contract will say that the logger needs to go with

2013
01:46:51,880 --> 01:46:53,960
Speaker 1: the chainsaw and lopped the tops down so that they're

2014
01:46:53,960 --> 01:46:58,080
Speaker 1: below you know, six ft below four feet. Sometimes contracts

2015
01:46:58,080 --> 01:46:59,920
Speaker 1: will call for them to be down to eighteen inch.

2016
01:47:00,080 --> 01:47:03,200
Speaker 1: Is that's really a matter of aesthetics, so that the

2017
01:47:03,280 --> 01:47:06,040
Speaker 1: landowner when they walk through their their forest, when you're done,

2018
01:47:06,160 --> 01:47:10,080
Speaker 1: i mean logging forestry, when done right, it doesn't look

2019
01:47:10,200 --> 01:47:13,160
Speaker 1: pretty immediately after it happens. And so that's one way

2020
01:47:13,200 --> 01:47:16,240
Speaker 1: that people live have uh, you know, basically made it

2021
01:47:16,240 --> 01:47:19,599
Speaker 1: look like a prettier timber sale afterwards. But uh, you know,

2022
01:47:19,680 --> 01:47:22,880
Speaker 1: absolutely leaving some of those tops both in place and

2023
01:47:22,960 --> 01:47:25,360
Speaker 1: leaving them up you know, maybe not where they're they're

2024
01:47:25,400 --> 01:47:26,960
Speaker 1: way up in the sky, but that they're you know,

2025
01:47:27,320 --> 01:47:30,880
Speaker 1: six eight, even ten feet high, that's gonna offer side cover,

2026
01:47:31,000 --> 01:47:33,880
Speaker 1: that's gonna offer cover to small mammals like you alluded to,

2027
01:47:34,280 --> 01:47:37,720
Speaker 1: and uh, in many cases can be significant in protecting

2028
01:47:37,760 --> 01:47:40,599
Speaker 1: some of the regeneration coming in in cases that we

2029
01:47:40,640 --> 01:47:43,280
Speaker 1: want dear to be able to benefit from some of that,

2030
01:47:43,320 --> 01:47:45,280
Speaker 1: but also want to be able to protect some of

2031
01:47:45,280 --> 01:47:47,160
Speaker 1: it so that it becomes part of that next stage

2032
01:47:47,200 --> 01:47:55,519
Speaker 1: class We're you gonna add anything then? Now what he said? Uh, so,

2033
01:47:55,560 --> 01:48:00,559
Speaker 1: speaking of um, just the the that X a little

2034
01:48:00,560 --> 01:48:03,360
Speaker 1: bit of it and how it is in some of

2035
01:48:03,360 --> 01:48:05,240
Speaker 1: these cases if you're doing a more of an even

2036
01:48:05,280 --> 01:48:07,639
Speaker 1: stand management practice where you're coming in and doing something

2037
01:48:07,680 --> 01:48:12,000
Speaker 1: pretty dramatic. Um, is there anything that we should know

2038
01:48:12,040 --> 01:48:15,439
Speaker 1: about the timing of something like this? So that might

2039
01:48:15,479 --> 01:48:18,000
Speaker 1: be different maybe than your general forster might come and say, Hey,

2040
01:48:18,040 --> 01:48:19,280
Speaker 1: we're just gonna do this as soon as we can

2041
01:48:19,280 --> 01:48:21,479
Speaker 1: get to it. But if I'm a deer hunter and

2042
01:48:21,520 --> 01:48:24,759
Speaker 1: I'm trying to manage this for the best possible hunting

2043
01:48:24,760 --> 01:48:27,200
Speaker 1: habitat that coming season, would it be best to do

2044
01:48:27,240 --> 01:48:29,679
Speaker 1: this kind of thing like in the winter right now,

2045
01:48:30,160 --> 01:48:33,720
Speaker 1: or when's the best time to maximize the reproduction of

2046
01:48:33,880 --> 01:48:37,679
Speaker 1: new growth and all these other things. But that would

2047
01:48:37,720 --> 01:48:40,400
Speaker 1: depend on on a lot for for reasons other than

2048
01:48:40,439 --> 01:48:42,960
Speaker 1: just hunting. I mean, for one, as far as hunting goes.

2049
01:48:43,200 --> 01:48:45,360
Speaker 1: You know, it occurs to me how many times I've

2050
01:48:45,360 --> 01:48:48,280
Speaker 1: gone on a recently completed or even active logging job

2051
01:48:48,320 --> 01:48:52,599
Speaker 1: and seeing how many deer have come just to just

2052
01:48:52,680 --> 01:48:54,760
Speaker 1: to chew some of the buds off of the tree

2053
01:48:54,800 --> 01:48:57,479
Speaker 1: tops that are laying there. So there can be that impact. Uh,

2054
01:48:57,600 --> 01:49:01,519
Speaker 1: certain species that we're working with have a tendency to

2055
01:49:01,600 --> 01:49:04,880
Speaker 1: sprout from the stumps or the roots system, and oftentimes

2056
01:49:04,960 --> 01:49:08,280
Speaker 1: we get a better sprouting or compassing response when we

2057
01:49:08,280 --> 01:49:11,760
Speaker 1: cut during the winter, and that might be desirable. Um.

2058
01:49:11,960 --> 01:49:13,840
Speaker 1: And then on the opposite side, if we're dealing with

2059
01:49:13,920 --> 01:49:16,720
Speaker 1: some species where we expect them to sprout and we

2060
01:49:16,720 --> 01:49:18,639
Speaker 1: don't want them to sprout, and that can be a problem,

2061
01:49:18,840 --> 01:49:21,920
Speaker 1: it might be more beneficial to cut them during the summertime,

2062
01:49:21,920 --> 01:49:24,280
Speaker 1: and more beneficial still to cut them during the summertime

2063
01:49:24,320 --> 01:49:27,920
Speaker 1: so that we can apply herbicide to them. Apart from that,

2064
01:49:27,960 --> 01:49:30,000
Speaker 1: you know, you think at the time of year, depending

2065
01:49:30,040 --> 01:49:32,439
Speaker 1: on some sites that might be weather, you might require

2066
01:49:32,520 --> 01:49:36,080
Speaker 1: that the trails are frozen or dry during the heat

2067
01:49:36,080 --> 01:49:38,400
Speaker 1: of summer. UM. And then there are other things, like

2068
01:49:38,479 --> 01:49:40,880
Speaker 1: you think about the time of year that uh, you know,

2069
01:49:41,280 --> 01:49:43,960
Speaker 1: trees have seeds on them, you know, are you cutting

2070
01:49:43,960 --> 01:49:46,360
Speaker 1: them just before they're gonna put seeds out for the season,

2071
01:49:46,520 --> 01:49:49,400
Speaker 1: or are they hanging onto viable seeds that haven't fallen yet.

2072
01:49:49,400 --> 01:49:51,679
Speaker 1: And now when you drop the tree, the seeds fall

2073
01:49:51,760 --> 01:49:53,960
Speaker 1: right where that crown is, so that's where your seedlings

2074
01:49:53,960 --> 01:49:58,719
Speaker 1: are coming up and being protected. So yeah, Unfortunately, again

2075
01:49:58,760 --> 01:50:01,640
Speaker 1: it kind of comes to a depends answer because it

2076
01:50:01,720 --> 01:50:04,519
Speaker 1: has to do with which tree species you're trying to

2077
01:50:04,520 --> 01:50:08,160
Speaker 1: regenerate or not regenerate, what the site conditions are. UM.

2078
01:50:08,200 --> 01:50:11,479
Speaker 1: In New York, some people are faced with time of

2079
01:50:11,560 --> 01:50:15,240
Speaker 1: year cutting restrictions because of an effort to protect endangered

2080
01:50:15,280 --> 01:50:18,280
Speaker 1: bats that roost in those trees during the summertime and

2081
01:50:18,280 --> 01:50:21,200
Speaker 1: then go into caves during the wintertime. So there are

2082
01:50:21,240 --> 01:50:24,040
Speaker 1: certainly a whole lot of factors that that can play

2083
01:50:24,080 --> 01:50:28,479
Speaker 1: into the timing of a regeneration cut. Yeah, And one

2084
01:50:28,520 --> 01:50:31,200
Speaker 1: thing to add to that, I mean, I would say

2085
01:50:31,240 --> 01:50:35,080
Speaker 1: from the deer hunter's perspective, although that's that's all true,

2086
01:50:35,280 --> 01:50:39,120
Speaker 1: I would I would less care about the timing and

2087
01:50:39,240 --> 01:50:41,920
Speaker 1: make sure that it's the right time. Um for all

2088
01:50:41,960 --> 01:50:44,240
Speaker 1: the environmental reasons. You know, a lot of it is

2089
01:50:44,280 --> 01:50:48,519
Speaker 1: whether dependent and you know, accessibility. Sometimes it's scheduling based

2090
01:50:48,520 --> 01:50:51,320
Speaker 1: on one that crew can get there if the forest

2091
01:50:51,360 --> 01:50:54,960
Speaker 1: here you're working with is you know, using specific crews

2092
01:50:55,080 --> 01:50:57,559
Speaker 1: to douce uh. You know, there's all kinds of different

2093
01:50:57,600 --> 01:51:00,800
Speaker 1: blocking operations out there, from small opera raiders to to

2094
01:51:01,080 --> 01:51:03,280
Speaker 1: you know, machinery that's very big that takes up a

2095
01:51:03,320 --> 01:51:07,080
Speaker 1: lot of space and it's fully mechanized. So whatever scale

2096
01:51:07,320 --> 01:51:10,960
Speaker 1: the property is and whatever operator would be the most

2097
01:51:11,000 --> 01:51:15,320
Speaker 1: efficient for you to you know, get it done with quickly. Um.

2098
01:51:15,800 --> 01:51:19,680
Speaker 1: They all lend itself to two different things, but a

2099
01:51:19,720 --> 01:51:21,599
Speaker 1: lot of it is gonna end up probably especially on

2100
01:51:21,600 --> 01:51:25,040
Speaker 1: one of those larger operations. Mark the market, you know,

2101
01:51:25,479 --> 01:51:28,400
Speaker 1: in terms of when that wood is valuable. Sometimes it's

2102
01:51:28,520 --> 01:51:30,960
Speaker 1: very specific to a time of year based on the

2103
01:51:31,080 --> 01:51:34,800
Speaker 1: bed where I've seen like cruise move in and it's

2104
01:51:34,880 --> 01:51:37,599
Speaker 1: not necessarily a short notice, but just say, hey, prices

2105
01:51:37,600 --> 01:51:39,840
Speaker 1: are really good on oak now, for example, we want

2106
01:51:39,840 --> 01:51:41,560
Speaker 1: to cut that now because it might not be in

2107
01:51:41,640 --> 01:51:44,160
Speaker 1: six months. So, um, if the ground can hold it,

2108
01:51:44,240 --> 01:51:47,040
Speaker 1: and and and handle it. Environmentally wise, there's a lot

2109
01:51:47,080 --> 01:51:50,360
Speaker 1: of good best management practices out there or state agent,

2110
01:51:50,520 --> 01:51:54,320
Speaker 1: state forestry agency, and environment protection agencies will make sure

2111
01:51:54,360 --> 01:51:57,080
Speaker 1: that they're not happening at that time of the year

2112
01:51:57,120 --> 01:52:00,040
Speaker 1: that there's you know, erosion is at the at the

2113
01:52:00,040 --> 01:52:03,200
Speaker 1: east to minimize as much as possible, um, and you're

2114
01:52:03,200 --> 01:52:06,200
Speaker 1: not really you know, ruts are not happening. A lot

2115
01:52:06,240 --> 01:52:09,200
Speaker 1: of that those d MPs are followed. UM. You know,

2116
01:52:09,320 --> 01:52:13,400
Speaker 1: financial driven decisions are usually what comes into play. And

2117
01:52:13,439 --> 01:52:16,160
Speaker 1: I would say for the deer hunter, let those things

2118
01:52:16,160 --> 01:52:19,800
Speaker 1: make those decisions, because as we all know, seasons come

2119
01:52:19,800 --> 01:52:22,400
Speaker 1: and go and deer react to it. Although it might

2120
01:52:22,439 --> 01:52:25,840
Speaker 1: not be ideal for three months or six month perry

2121
01:52:25,920 --> 01:52:28,519
Speaker 1: for your deer hunting, Um, it will make it better

2122
01:52:28,520 --> 01:52:31,240
Speaker 1: in the big picture. And if that's when that cruise available,

2123
01:52:31,280 --> 01:52:33,360
Speaker 1: I would I would let it, let it happen, even

2124
01:52:33,360 --> 01:52:34,800
Speaker 1: though it might be it would be a little bit

2125
01:52:34,800 --> 01:52:36,599
Speaker 1: of a punch, and of good it's something's happening right

2126
01:52:36,640 --> 01:52:39,240
Speaker 1: when you're about to hunt. The hunting will get better.

2127
01:52:39,240 --> 01:52:41,559
Speaker 1: And I do listen to your podcast, Mark, and I

2128
01:52:41,600 --> 01:52:44,599
Speaker 1: know that Dan uh your co host, had talked about

2129
01:52:44,600 --> 01:52:47,400
Speaker 1: that not that long ago, but I've also heard him

2130
01:52:47,640 --> 01:52:50,599
Speaker 1: recently say that things are are pretty good right now.

2131
01:52:50,640 --> 01:52:52,680
Speaker 1: And if the DAN from a couple of years ago

2132
01:52:52,760 --> 01:52:55,400
Speaker 1: could talk to the Dan today, I would imagine he'd

2133
01:52:55,400 --> 01:52:57,400
Speaker 1: be like, yeah, right, things are things are pretty hot

2134
01:52:57,400 --> 01:52:59,639
Speaker 1: because that's where the gear are. Yeah. I think that's

2135
01:52:59,640 --> 01:53:01,800
Speaker 1: a perfect example. He was really stressed out about it

2136
01:53:01,840 --> 01:53:03,559
Speaker 1: that one year, but now it's been a few years

2137
01:53:03,560 --> 01:53:06,200
Speaker 1: and things are looking really good. So that's that is

2138
01:53:06,240 --> 01:53:10,360
Speaker 1: a perfect illustration of that concept. His stressed level sounds

2139
01:53:10,400 --> 01:53:12,800
Speaker 1: like it came down quite a bit. It might be

2140
01:53:12,880 --> 01:53:16,160
Speaker 1: rising for other reasons, but but at least for that

2141
01:53:16,200 --> 01:53:20,240
Speaker 1: one thing, it's down. So one back back a little

2142
01:53:20,240 --> 01:53:23,440
Speaker 1: bit too um some of the d I Y options.

2143
01:53:23,479 --> 01:53:26,479
Speaker 1: I feel like when we start to get into, at

2144
01:53:26,560 --> 01:53:30,240
Speaker 1: least when deer hunters start talking about managing timber and cover,

2145
01:53:31,160 --> 01:53:34,200
Speaker 1: one of the first things people usually jumped to is

2146
01:53:34,280 --> 01:53:37,360
Speaker 1: hinge cutting, because it seems like the easiest thing that

2147
01:53:37,400 --> 01:53:40,479
Speaker 1: you as an individual can do without knowing a whole lot,

2148
01:53:40,560 --> 01:53:44,160
Speaker 1: without like feeling comfortable falling great big trees, without hiring someone.

2149
01:53:44,320 --> 01:53:46,280
Speaker 1: That just seems to be like the most accessible way

2150
01:53:46,320 --> 01:53:49,640
Speaker 1: to manage some degree of timber because you go out

2151
01:53:49,640 --> 01:53:52,439
Speaker 1: through the chainsaw and cut downs or hinge cut some

2152
01:53:52,479 --> 01:53:55,679
Speaker 1: small trees and you can you can manage to a degree.

2153
01:53:55,720 --> 01:53:57,479
Speaker 1: So a lot of people seem to do it. It's

2154
01:53:57,560 --> 01:53:59,800
Speaker 1: very popular. People are always talking about all these different

2155
01:54:00,040 --> 01:54:02,960
Speaker 1: tegic ways to hinge cut. And you hear some people

2156
01:54:03,000 --> 01:54:05,360
Speaker 1: talk about the properties. You go look at some properties

2157
01:54:05,400 --> 01:54:07,599
Speaker 1: and these things are hinge cut all over the place,

2158
01:54:07,640 --> 01:54:10,479
Speaker 1: like tons and tons and tons of hinge cutting. From

2159
01:54:10,520 --> 01:54:15,320
Speaker 1: your guys perspective, from a forestry perspective, um, do you

2160
01:54:15,400 --> 01:54:18,720
Speaker 1: see any downside to the popularity of hinge cutting or

2161
01:54:18,760 --> 01:54:22,200
Speaker 1: do you see anything that's being done or or promoted

2162
01:54:22,320 --> 01:54:24,600
Speaker 1: or recommended to folks as far as hinge cutting that

2163
01:54:24,720 --> 01:54:29,120
Speaker 1: actually from a Forrester's perspective perspective that hey, we're actually

2164
01:54:29,120 --> 01:54:30,960
Speaker 1: missing the boat on some of this stuff. Any like

2165
01:54:31,160 --> 01:54:34,560
Speaker 1: mistakes that pop out to you, guys, that's a great question.

2166
01:54:34,560 --> 01:54:36,600
Speaker 1: I figured we get into hinge cutting a little bit

2167
01:54:36,680 --> 01:54:40,920
Speaker 1: and I'll I'll try to cover as many bases as possible. Um.

2168
01:54:41,000 --> 01:54:45,640
Speaker 1: So Kim has mentioned the kind of intermediate you know,

2169
01:54:45,680 --> 01:54:48,120
Speaker 1: when the forest is not quite mature enough to get

2170
01:54:48,160 --> 01:54:50,560
Speaker 1: something out of it in terms of value for the wood,

2171
01:54:51,200 --> 01:54:56,200
Speaker 1: When trees are are smaller size, you know, midsize UM.

2172
01:54:56,240 --> 01:54:58,880
Speaker 1: There's a lot of things you can do to influence that,

2173
01:54:58,960 --> 01:55:01,080
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of different TI. That's the timber

2174
01:55:01,160 --> 01:55:04,480
Speaker 1: stand improvement t s I. What people say t s

2175
01:55:04,560 --> 01:55:07,960
Speaker 1: I is basically removing trees that are I don't use

2176
01:55:07,960 --> 01:55:10,000
Speaker 1: the word runs, but the trees that are not either

2177
01:55:10,240 --> 01:55:12,760
Speaker 1: the species is not what you want there, or they're

2178
01:55:12,760 --> 01:55:15,320
Speaker 1: competing with trees that you do want there. But it's

2179
01:55:15,360 --> 01:55:17,920
Speaker 1: the removal or killing of trees that you don't want

2180
01:55:17,960 --> 01:55:20,040
Speaker 1: and leaving of the ones that you do want. That

2181
01:55:20,080 --> 01:55:22,280
Speaker 1: can be done a number of different ways. You can

2182
01:55:22,320 --> 01:55:24,959
Speaker 1: do that through cutting the tree down completely and removing

2183
01:55:25,000 --> 01:55:27,200
Speaker 1: it UM if you can get fireword out of it,

2184
01:55:27,240 --> 01:55:30,240
Speaker 1: if there's a product there, cutting it down and leaving

2185
01:55:30,240 --> 01:55:33,520
Speaker 1: it on the fourth floor. You can girdle it, you

2186
01:55:33,560 --> 01:55:35,880
Speaker 1: can hack and square. Yes, you can hinge cut it.

2187
01:55:35,920 --> 01:55:41,240
Speaker 1: With the goal there is to influence competition, so leaving

2188
01:55:41,280 --> 01:55:44,520
Speaker 1: your favorite species and and UH taking away the ones

2189
01:55:44,560 --> 01:55:49,600
Speaker 1: that are undesirable and influencing structure UM and sunlight so

2190
01:55:49,800 --> 01:55:52,320
Speaker 1: basically getting more in the sunlight in there. So hinge

2191
01:55:52,320 --> 01:55:56,760
Speaker 1: cutting is one of those techniques UM that can be used. UM.

2192
01:55:56,800 --> 01:56:00,000
Speaker 1: I think a lot of under the untrained I. UM,

2193
01:56:00,080 --> 01:56:02,000
Speaker 1: what a lot of folks are doing is they're just

2194
01:56:02,080 --> 01:56:05,760
Speaker 1: removing trees that they don't want there or just want

2195
01:56:05,800 --> 01:56:08,760
Speaker 1: to cover aspect without thinking about the food side of it.

2196
01:56:08,840 --> 01:56:11,920
Speaker 1: And Tim mentioned earlier, UM, you know, if you kill

2197
01:56:12,000 --> 01:56:15,440
Speaker 1: a tree, if you spray it with some chemical and

2198
01:56:15,480 --> 01:56:17,240
Speaker 1: the tree is dead from the root down, you're not

2199
01:56:17,240 --> 01:56:19,440
Speaker 1: going to get the sprouting effect. And if it's a

2200
01:56:19,440 --> 01:56:21,960
Speaker 1: tree that deer want to eat the sprouts of UM,

2201
01:56:22,000 --> 01:56:25,200
Speaker 1: it might be counterintuitive. So you can hinge a tree

2202
01:56:26,000 --> 01:56:29,760
Speaker 1: that is an undesirable food and if that tree sprouts,

2203
01:56:29,840 --> 01:56:32,400
Speaker 1: all you're doing is providing, yes, and cover, but a

2204
01:56:32,440 --> 01:56:34,280
Speaker 1: lot of food at the ground level of something dear

2205
01:56:34,360 --> 01:56:37,640
Speaker 1: don't really want to eat. So there's that side of it. UM.

2206
01:56:37,640 --> 01:56:41,160
Speaker 1: A couple of years ago, one of our colleague colleagues

2207
01:56:41,160 --> 01:56:44,680
Speaker 1: wrote and really good articles on our website about UM

2208
01:56:45,440 --> 01:56:48,040
Speaker 1: kind of clues that you might be hinge cutting too much.

2209
01:56:48,520 --> 01:56:51,200
Speaker 1: And UH he had talked about species and that that's

2210
01:56:51,240 --> 01:56:53,120
Speaker 1: kind of one of those examples of not knowing the

2211
01:56:53,160 --> 01:56:55,120
Speaker 1: species of the trees you're cutting and what's going to

2212
01:56:55,240 --> 01:56:58,640
Speaker 1: happen there. And there's a handful of other ones, UH

2213
01:56:59,080 --> 01:57:01,360
Speaker 1: listed I would wreck men. You go look for that.

2214
01:57:01,400 --> 01:57:04,520
Speaker 1: If you're interested in hinge cutting, find that article on

2215
01:57:04,560 --> 01:57:09,240
Speaker 1: their safety is certainly another one. Um Safely cutting a

2216
01:57:09,280 --> 01:57:13,160
Speaker 1: tree down, UM, it comes with risk. The larger the

2217
01:57:13,200 --> 01:57:18,560
Speaker 1: diameter of the tree. UM, you're certainly uh better off

2218
01:57:18,680 --> 01:57:22,320
Speaker 1: at felling that tree down through a technique that will

2219
01:57:22,400 --> 01:57:24,880
Speaker 1: drop the tree directional felling where the tree goes in

2220
01:57:24,880 --> 01:57:27,720
Speaker 1: a very predictable way. We kind of have a general

2221
01:57:27,800 --> 01:57:29,440
Speaker 1: rule of thumb that q D M A. I mean,

2222
01:57:29,480 --> 01:57:31,760
Speaker 1: it's not like a policy or anything, but we recommend

2223
01:57:31,760 --> 01:57:35,320
Speaker 1: to folks that if you can influence the direction of

2224
01:57:35,360 --> 01:57:38,160
Speaker 1: that tree with the power of your hand or one

2225
01:57:38,200 --> 01:57:40,960
Speaker 1: of those tools to basically push it um. You know,

2226
01:57:41,000 --> 01:57:43,800
Speaker 1: so about the size of your thigh or smaller um,

2227
01:57:44,120 --> 01:57:46,640
Speaker 1: you could hinge it. But if it's getting larger than that,

2228
01:57:46,720 --> 01:57:49,240
Speaker 1: where no matter how hard you push with you in

2229
01:57:49,520 --> 01:57:52,680
Speaker 1: your hand on that tree, once it's been hinged or caught,

2230
01:57:53,000 --> 01:57:55,160
Speaker 1: that tree is going wherever it wants to, you know,

2231
01:57:55,240 --> 01:57:58,920
Speaker 1: the risk goes up exponentially. So safety is certainly another

2232
01:57:58,960 --> 01:58:02,400
Speaker 1: thing I think of on the cutting kind of wagon

2233
01:58:02,480 --> 01:58:04,640
Speaker 1: that a lot of people are jumping on. And then

2234
01:58:04,680 --> 01:58:08,000
Speaker 1: from a forestry perspective, one thing I'll finish with and

2235
01:58:08,040 --> 01:58:10,800
Speaker 1: then jip tim feel free to jump in is um.

2236
01:58:10,840 --> 01:58:12,920
Speaker 1: You know. One of the things that it does is yes,

2237
01:58:12,960 --> 01:58:15,440
Speaker 1: it creates a lot of that side cover, similar to

2238
01:58:15,520 --> 01:58:17,600
Speaker 1: leaving tops in the woods. Right, you get all of

2239
01:58:17,640 --> 01:58:21,800
Speaker 1: this structure out there, um where you're going to bed underneath,

2240
01:58:21,840 --> 01:58:24,280
Speaker 1: and people try to influence exactly where dear bed by

2241
01:58:24,280 --> 01:58:27,760
Speaker 1: doing hinge cuts and uh. It certainly has a value

2242
01:58:27,800 --> 01:58:32,360
Speaker 1: to it. But from a forestry perspective, you're creating if

2243
01:58:32,400 --> 01:58:35,320
Speaker 1: you do a lot of that an example of where

2244
01:58:36,040 --> 01:58:38,720
Speaker 1: um example, but you're creating a situation where it's going

2245
01:58:38,760 --> 01:58:40,840
Speaker 1: to be really hard to come back in in seven

2246
01:58:40,840 --> 01:58:43,480
Speaker 1: to ten years and remove some other trees. So if

2247
01:58:43,520 --> 01:58:48,080
Speaker 1: it's part of a forestry operation, uh, where you hope

2248
01:58:48,120 --> 01:58:50,880
Speaker 1: to continually come in and do un even age management

2249
01:58:50,920 --> 01:58:55,680
Speaker 1: for example, UM, you're pretty much creating a very difficult

2250
01:58:55,720 --> 01:58:59,200
Speaker 1: situation where a logger can't get around there anymore. Um,

2251
01:58:59,240 --> 01:59:01,720
Speaker 1: they can't move the machinery without clearing some of it,

2252
01:59:02,000 --> 01:59:03,440
Speaker 1: you know, out of the way, and it's just going

2253
01:59:03,480 --> 01:59:05,040
Speaker 1: to take a lot of time and it's gonna cost

2254
01:59:05,120 --> 01:59:06,840
Speaker 1: more for you to do it. And if you do

2255
01:59:06,920 --> 01:59:11,320
Speaker 1: things like prescribed fire or other land management techniques. It's

2256
01:59:11,360 --> 01:59:13,440
Speaker 1: becoming more and more difficult now. I know a lot

2257
01:59:13,440 --> 01:59:15,000
Speaker 1: of folks that do a lot of hinge cutting have

2258
01:59:15,120 --> 01:59:18,360
Speaker 1: smaller properties and they say, listen, I can never get

2259
01:59:18,400 --> 01:59:20,600
Speaker 1: a forester in here or a logging crew because I

2260
01:59:20,640 --> 01:59:24,600
Speaker 1: only own ten or twenty acres. And there's truth to that. UM.

2261
01:59:24,640 --> 01:59:26,440
Speaker 1: But if you're part of a co op and you're

2262
01:59:26,440 --> 01:59:29,080
Speaker 1: working with your landowners we talked about earlier, you can

2263
01:59:29,120 --> 01:59:32,600
Speaker 1: thwart some of that and actually get the economy of

2264
01:59:32,640 --> 01:59:35,360
Speaker 1: scale to a point where you can have somebody come in. UM.

2265
01:59:35,440 --> 01:59:40,080
Speaker 1: I prefer to treat remove trees completely, UM, either removing

2266
01:59:40,120 --> 01:59:44,360
Speaker 1: them using that product or doing some safe techniques where

2267
01:59:45,120 --> 01:59:50,720
Speaker 1: directional selling, hinging of not hinging, uh birling and spraying

2268
01:59:51,040 --> 01:59:54,480
Speaker 1: in the interior of forests. So any place that is

2269
01:59:54,560 --> 01:59:57,360
Speaker 1: in where I want to manage a forest through civil

2270
01:59:57,480 --> 02:00:01,040
Speaker 1: culture with you know, the operation and that we talked earlier,

2271
02:00:01,160 --> 02:00:03,720
Speaker 1: even or on even age management, I am not hinge cutting.

2272
02:00:04,160 --> 02:00:07,400
Speaker 1: I think it has its best place. And that article

2273
02:00:07,440 --> 02:00:10,120
Speaker 1: talks about this to a degree on our website on

2274
02:00:10,240 --> 02:00:16,080
Speaker 1: the edges of habitat and Kim talked about edge feathering. UM.

2275
02:00:16,200 --> 02:00:19,240
Speaker 1: You know, so where you're basically working on the edges

2276
02:00:19,840 --> 02:00:22,880
Speaker 1: of what is open in that wall of forest where

2277
02:00:22,880 --> 02:00:25,280
Speaker 1: you're trying to get as soft as edge as opposed

2278
02:00:25,320 --> 02:00:28,040
Speaker 1: to a hard edge. Hinge cutting has certainly a place there.

2279
02:00:28,400 --> 02:00:31,000
Speaker 1: A lot of times the timber on the edge of

2280
02:00:31,040 --> 02:00:33,520
Speaker 1: a field is not going to be your highest quality

2281
02:00:33,560 --> 02:00:36,680
Speaker 1: because those trees will be more limit um there. They

2282
02:00:36,720 --> 02:00:40,080
Speaker 1: will have more limbs on the bowl of the tree

2283
02:00:40,160 --> 02:00:42,720
Speaker 1: in the mid stem, in the mid story because they

2284
02:00:42,840 --> 02:00:45,040
Speaker 1: are trying to reach out into the field, so they

2285
02:00:45,080 --> 02:00:47,920
Speaker 1: have a limb there, and because of that, their timber

2286
02:00:47,960 --> 02:00:50,480
Speaker 1: value is not that great. And what a great way

2287
02:00:50,560 --> 02:00:53,960
Speaker 1: to influence dear betting than you know, fifty to a

2288
02:00:54,000 --> 02:00:56,160
Speaker 1: hundred yards or maybe not quite a hundred yards, but

2289
02:00:56,200 --> 02:00:58,080
Speaker 1: just off the field ed you want dear betting there.

2290
02:00:58,480 --> 02:01:01,920
Speaker 1: So that's why hinge cutting is Unfore why not place

2291
02:01:02,080 --> 02:01:04,920
Speaker 1: it on your field edges where there's some open space

2292
02:01:04,960 --> 02:01:06,720
Speaker 1: and you're trying to do some of the edge feathering.

2293
02:01:07,200 --> 02:01:08,920
Speaker 1: If I was a move to the interior of the

2294
02:01:08,920 --> 02:01:11,600
Speaker 1: forest for all of those other reasons, I would want

2295
02:01:11,640 --> 02:01:14,640
Speaker 1: to do straight up silver culture manage at a scale

2296
02:01:15,200 --> 02:01:18,840
Speaker 1: with where I can actually influence nutrition at a maximum

2297
02:01:18,880 --> 02:01:22,680
Speaker 1: way get dear bedding under you know, even age management,

2298
02:01:23,040 --> 02:01:26,880
Speaker 1: dear dear travel patterns through uneven aged management, and just

2299
02:01:26,920 --> 02:01:28,960
Speaker 1: be able to go in there and continually treat it

2300
02:01:29,520 --> 02:01:31,720
Speaker 1: with a crew, you know, have them come in and

2301
02:01:31,720 --> 02:01:34,680
Speaker 1: do large scale stuff. That's where it makes the most

2302
02:01:34,720 --> 02:01:38,520
Speaker 1: sense to me. I'd like to kind of jump off

2303
02:01:38,560 --> 02:01:41,040
Speaker 1: what Matt said. They're about doing it near the edge

2304
02:01:41,080 --> 02:01:44,920
Speaker 1: and and say, I've seen a few places where hinge

2305
02:01:44,920 --> 02:01:49,480
Speaker 1: cuts have essentially died rather rapidly. You know, when you

2306
02:01:49,520 --> 02:01:51,640
Speaker 1: go out into the interior of the forest and you're

2307
02:01:51,680 --> 02:01:55,720
Speaker 1: doing these hinge cuts, particularly where maybe no real thingning

2308
02:01:55,840 --> 02:01:58,120
Speaker 1: is taking place in the trees that you're hinge cutting.

2309
02:01:58,120 --> 02:02:00,160
Speaker 1: Are you know, maybe in the lower can a bee

2310
02:02:00,240 --> 02:02:02,480
Speaker 1: because they're the smaller trees that you want to hinge cut,

2311
02:02:02,800 --> 02:02:05,480
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, you get that initial sprouting response

2312
02:02:05,480 --> 02:02:07,800
Speaker 1: which is kind of a distress response, but there's now

2313
02:02:08,040 --> 02:02:10,120
Speaker 1: not enough sunlight for that tree now that it's on

2314
02:02:10,160 --> 02:02:14,040
Speaker 1: the floor to actually continue to grow and grow new sprouts. Um,

2315
02:02:14,440 --> 02:02:18,120
Speaker 1: So you definitely want to consider that and maybe you know,

2316
02:02:18,200 --> 02:02:21,400
Speaker 1: have a reasonable expectation when you're in the dark forest

2317
02:02:21,440 --> 02:02:23,720
Speaker 1: compared to in an area or on the edge of

2318
02:02:23,720 --> 02:02:25,440
Speaker 1: an area that's being clear cut or the edge of

2319
02:02:25,440 --> 02:02:28,440
Speaker 1: an existing field where the tree can sprout and now

2320
02:02:28,480 --> 02:02:30,880
Speaker 1: those sprouts grow leads and get sunlight and continue to

2321
02:02:30,920 --> 02:02:34,520
Speaker 1: grow despite being horizontal. Uh. And I would also point out,

2322
02:02:34,560 --> 02:02:37,360
Speaker 1: you know, with the hinge cutting um, there are a

2323
02:02:37,440 --> 02:02:39,880
Speaker 1: number of different ways that hinge cutting itself has been

2324
02:02:40,000 --> 02:02:43,120
Speaker 1: used to you know, create betting areas, just to provide

2325
02:02:43,120 --> 02:02:46,839
Speaker 1: some some brows when when deer needed, or to actually

2326
02:02:46,840 --> 02:02:50,680
Speaker 1: create a a bottle bottleneck to influence deer movement across

2327
02:02:50,720 --> 02:02:53,760
Speaker 1: the landscape. So, just like some of these other practices,

2328
02:02:54,080 --> 02:02:57,600
Speaker 1: certainly consider before you go around and start cutting trees,

2329
02:02:57,680 --> 02:02:59,920
Speaker 1: hinge cutting them or cutting them down, what is your

2330
02:03:00,080 --> 02:03:03,320
Speaker 1: ultimate goal in doing this work. And in the case

2331
02:03:03,360 --> 02:03:06,440
Speaker 1: of hinge cutting, you know, do consider if I'm gonna

2332
02:03:06,520 --> 02:03:08,680
Speaker 1: hinge cut, is this going to be any different or

2333
02:03:08,680 --> 02:03:10,960
Speaker 1: how would this be different compared to if I just

2334
02:03:11,240 --> 02:03:13,680
Speaker 1: severed the tree, you know, from the stump and allow

2335
02:03:14,000 --> 02:03:18,040
Speaker 1: those sprouts to come in. It's like any other tool

2336
02:03:18,040 --> 02:03:20,840
Speaker 1: on a toolbox. It has it has certainly a very

2337
02:03:21,160 --> 02:03:24,080
Speaker 1: high value and purpose just needs to be applied in

2338
02:03:24,120 --> 02:03:26,320
Speaker 1: the right place. You know, you're you're you gotta grab

2339
02:03:26,360 --> 02:03:29,360
Speaker 1: a hammer to hammer nail, not not a crescent wrench,

2340
02:03:29,400 --> 02:03:31,400
Speaker 1: you know, so you gotta just figure out where it

2341
02:03:31,440 --> 02:03:33,320
Speaker 1: has the best place. Now, there's a lot of folks

2342
02:03:33,360 --> 02:03:37,160
Speaker 1: out there with small properties that don't work with their neighbors,

2343
02:03:37,200 --> 02:03:39,800
Speaker 1: and they've hinge cut, you know, their entire ten acres

2344
02:03:40,200 --> 02:03:42,720
Speaker 1: in some way, shape or form. And I can guarantee

2345
02:03:42,720 --> 02:03:44,080
Speaker 1: a mark that they are going to be met at

2346
02:03:44,120 --> 02:03:47,040
Speaker 1: betting in there. I mean, I certainly would say that

2347
02:03:47,200 --> 02:03:50,640
Speaker 1: is going to have that influence that they're hoping for. Um.

2348
02:03:50,760 --> 02:03:53,880
Speaker 1: But I mean, I wouldn't put it under the word sad,

2349
02:03:53,920 --> 02:03:55,600
Speaker 1: but it certainly it's caught on and a lot of

2350
02:03:55,640 --> 02:03:58,640
Speaker 1: people have been doing it, and I just say, think

2351
02:03:58,680 --> 02:04:01,320
Speaker 1: about where the best play to use it so that

2352
02:04:01,400 --> 02:04:04,600
Speaker 1: you get the maximum benefit and uh and you're also

2353
02:04:04,680 --> 02:04:08,400
Speaker 1: not risking your life, you know. And sometimes some places, um,

2354
02:04:08,440 --> 02:04:10,960
Speaker 1: it can be very risky to hinge some of those

2355
02:04:11,000 --> 02:04:13,920
Speaker 1: bigger trees, and folks are hinging them, and it makes

2356
02:04:13,920 --> 02:04:17,200
Speaker 1: me grim us a little bit that their safeties um

2357
02:04:17,280 --> 02:04:19,080
Speaker 1: at risk, you know, And I don't I don't like

2358
02:04:19,120 --> 02:04:22,320
Speaker 1: seeing that. I'd rather than be safely at home and

2359
02:04:22,400 --> 02:04:24,840
Speaker 1: have somebody in there with a feller buncher that's going

2360
02:04:24,840 --> 02:04:26,960
Speaker 1: in and caught those trees down. You're gonna get to

2361
02:04:27,000 --> 02:04:28,760
Speaker 1: some light in there, and the trees are gonna respond

2362
02:04:28,760 --> 02:04:32,880
Speaker 1: and they're gonna betting that that happens too. Yeah. Well,

2363
02:04:34,600 --> 02:04:36,760
Speaker 1: you just kind of blew my mind there, Matt, because

2364
02:04:36,880 --> 02:04:39,200
Speaker 1: all these years I've been using crescent wrenches trying to

2365
02:04:39,200 --> 02:04:41,480
Speaker 1: get my nails and then never worked too well. And

2366
02:04:41,840 --> 02:04:46,520
Speaker 1: so now no, no I'm not so handy. In all seriousness,

2367
02:04:47,920 --> 02:04:52,760
Speaker 1: You're welcome seriousness, UM. This is this has been really interesting,

2368
02:04:52,760 --> 02:04:56,120
Speaker 1: really helpful for people. I think, I think for anyone

2369
02:04:56,120 --> 02:04:59,720
Speaker 1: out there who hunts deer, cares about deer and wildlife,

2370
02:04:59,760 --> 02:05:02,040
Speaker 1: and while habitat, there's there's some pretty interesting things in

2371
02:05:02,160 --> 02:05:08,320
Speaker 1: this conversation. I think understanding habitat, understanding habitat UM improvement

2372
02:05:08,320 --> 02:05:10,560
Speaker 1: and management and force try being one of those ways

2373
02:05:10,560 --> 02:05:13,720
Speaker 1: of doing that. It just helps with a holistic understanding

2374
02:05:13,760 --> 02:05:16,640
Speaker 1: of this creature and how we interact with it. So

2375
02:05:16,640 --> 02:05:19,360
Speaker 1: so thank you guys for sharing such in depth, UM

2376
02:05:19,440 --> 02:05:21,560
Speaker 1: insight and know all of this. But I gotta believe

2377
02:05:21,560 --> 02:05:23,560
Speaker 1: there's a whole lot of stuff we have not covered.

2378
02:05:23,600 --> 02:05:26,320
Speaker 1: Still there there's a lot more to it, um. If

2379
02:05:26,360 --> 02:05:29,200
Speaker 1: people want to learn more about this or if they

2380
02:05:29,240 --> 02:05:31,880
Speaker 1: want to learn more about the Young Forced Initiative or

2381
02:05:31,880 --> 02:05:33,880
Speaker 1: anything that we've kind of discussed. Becauld, you guys point

2382
02:05:33,880 --> 02:05:35,920
Speaker 1: out a few places that folks can go to dive

2383
02:05:35,960 --> 02:05:38,640
Speaker 1: into this these topics further. Matt, maybe you want to

2384
02:05:38,720 --> 02:05:41,520
Speaker 1: kick it off. Sure, well, if you if you're not

2385
02:05:41,640 --> 02:05:43,440
Speaker 1: a member of k m A and you've never been

2386
02:05:43,480 --> 02:05:46,680
Speaker 1: on our website either way, just our websites q m

2387
02:05:46,760 --> 02:05:48,600
Speaker 1: A dot com. So I would say there's a lot

2388
02:05:48,600 --> 02:05:51,280
Speaker 1: of stuff there. There's a little search window that you

2389
02:05:51,320 --> 02:05:55,160
Speaker 1: can type in habitat Management. There's a whole um menu

2390
02:05:55,240 --> 02:05:57,240
Speaker 1: option of habitat Management. You can look to all of

2391
02:05:57,280 --> 02:06:00,680
Speaker 1: our articles there. Um certainly if you want, remember, we'd

2392
02:06:00,720 --> 02:06:02,560
Speaker 1: love to have you. You belong with us if you're

2393
02:06:02,800 --> 02:06:05,080
Speaker 1: if you're a deer hunters, would join. It's good to

2394
02:06:05,160 --> 02:06:08,600
Speaker 1: be part of a conservation organization that fights for you

2395
02:06:08,640 --> 02:06:11,000
Speaker 1: know what, one of your passions. If you're a deer hunter,

2396
02:06:11,040 --> 02:06:12,960
Speaker 1: we'd love to have you as part of our family.

2397
02:06:13,200 --> 02:06:15,240
Speaker 1: And uh, it's not that expensive, and you get a

2398
02:06:15,240 --> 02:06:18,000
Speaker 1: great magazine, some great authors out there that are written

2399
02:06:18,040 --> 02:06:21,960
Speaker 1: like Mark Um. And then one final thing I'll say,

2400
02:06:22,360 --> 02:06:26,400
Speaker 1: um is that we have a series of different classes

2401
02:06:26,440 --> 02:06:28,480
Speaker 1: and training. Some of them are online, some of them

2402
02:06:28,520 --> 02:06:31,560
Speaker 1: you can attend in person. We dive pretty deeply into

2403
02:06:31,600 --> 02:06:35,000
Speaker 1: the habitat management realm in all of those and certainly

2404
02:06:35,040 --> 02:06:38,160
Speaker 1: we I mean we've been talking a while now, um

2405
02:06:38,200 --> 02:06:41,640
Speaker 1: today this is all forestry. There's all other kinds of

2406
02:06:41,640 --> 02:06:44,000
Speaker 1: habitat management you can do as well, you know, including

2407
02:06:44,000 --> 02:06:46,080
Speaker 1: food plots. A lot of people go to managing you know,

2408
02:06:46,320 --> 02:06:48,720
Speaker 1: putting in food plots, um. But one of the big

2409
02:06:48,760 --> 02:06:52,440
Speaker 1: things is just managing early successions. So not even forestry

2410
02:06:52,560 --> 02:06:55,720
Speaker 1: or young for us, but basically that first flush of

2411
02:06:55,840 --> 02:06:59,440
Speaker 1: forbes and and young growth if you disturb an area

2412
02:06:59,440 --> 02:07:02,320
Speaker 1: and walk away idea really really need that and that's

2413
02:07:02,360 --> 02:07:05,120
Speaker 1: been kind of uh an eye opening things for a

2414
02:07:05,200 --> 02:07:07,080
Speaker 1: lot of folks. So we cover all of that in

2415
02:07:07,080 --> 02:07:11,040
Speaker 1: those classes that's under the conserve menu class we do

2416
02:07:11,400 --> 02:07:14,760
Speaker 1: called Dear Steward. We actually have a couple of in

2417
02:07:14,800 --> 02:07:18,680
Speaker 1: person classes this year. One in South Carolina in June,

2418
02:07:19,400 --> 02:07:23,040
Speaker 1: um one in Ohio in uh September. So you know,

2419
02:07:23,120 --> 02:07:25,480
Speaker 1: check that stuff out unlisted on that Let's say, if

2420
02:07:25,480 --> 02:07:27,760
Speaker 1: you're interested in attending some of the stuff, you can

2421
02:07:27,960 --> 02:07:31,760
Speaker 1: reach out to me perfect anything you would add, Tim

2422
02:07:31,760 --> 02:07:34,800
Speaker 1: sure for anybody interested in learning more about the Young

2423
02:07:34,840 --> 02:07:38,880
Speaker 1: Forest Initiative check out young forest dot org, which is

2424
02:07:39,160 --> 02:07:42,360
Speaker 1: run by Wildlife Management Institute. And as far as getting

2425
02:07:42,480 --> 02:07:45,440
Speaker 1: general forestry information, I would say reach out to your

2426
02:07:45,560 --> 02:07:50,520
Speaker 1: state agency or cooperative extension locally, because forestry is something

2427
02:07:50,520 --> 02:07:54,200
Speaker 1: of a regional practice where you know, if you transplanted

2428
02:07:54,240 --> 02:07:56,360
Speaker 1: me a thousand miles away, I probably would not be

2429
02:07:56,400 --> 02:07:59,000
Speaker 1: able to offer sound advice the way your local foresters could.

2430
02:08:00,280 --> 02:08:03,720
Speaker 1: All right, good, good advice, And thank you for mentioned

2431
02:08:03,720 --> 02:08:07,040
Speaker 1: those additional places we can check out, and um, you

2432
02:08:07,120 --> 02:08:08,800
Speaker 1: both have left me with a lot to think about.

2433
02:08:09,040 --> 02:08:11,600
Speaker 1: We're trying to implement some of this stuff on our

2434
02:08:11,760 --> 02:08:14,680
Speaker 1: Northern Michigan deer camp. We've actually been I've been looking

2435
02:08:14,680 --> 02:08:17,040
Speaker 1: into trying to find a forrester myself and hopefully can

2436
02:08:17,120 --> 02:08:19,000
Speaker 1: step some meetings here in the next couple of weeks

2437
02:08:19,040 --> 02:08:21,360
Speaker 1: and look at some things that we can do related

2438
02:08:21,400 --> 02:08:24,520
Speaker 1: to all these topics, um to to improve the wildlife

2439
02:08:24,560 --> 02:08:27,000
Speaker 1: habitat for our little neck of the woods. And this

2440
02:08:27,080 --> 02:08:29,800
Speaker 1: certainly helped me kind of steer the direction I need

2441
02:08:29,840 --> 02:08:33,480
Speaker 1: to go. So thank you Matt, thank you Tim, and

2442
02:08:33,680 --> 02:08:36,120
Speaker 1: uh this has been great. Thanks for having a smart

2443
02:08:36,120 --> 02:08:38,920
Speaker 1: for having it's always it's always a pleasure to have

2444
02:08:38,960 --> 02:08:40,640
Speaker 1: to have you on the show, Matt and Tim. Hopefully

2445
02:08:40,640 --> 02:08:44,360
Speaker 1: you can come again, all right, and that's gonna do

2446
02:08:44,400 --> 02:08:46,640
Speaker 1: it for us today. So thank you for tuning in.

2447
02:08:46,680 --> 02:08:50,120
Speaker 1: Hopefully you found this one interesting. I certainly learned a

2448
02:08:50,120 --> 02:08:52,200
Speaker 1: lot from this because it's a topic that you know,

2449
02:08:52,200 --> 02:08:54,640
Speaker 1: it's relatively new for me, so I definitely came out

2450
02:08:54,680 --> 02:08:58,000
Speaker 1: of this conversation with some important lessons to learn. Now,

2451
02:08:58,240 --> 02:09:00,760
Speaker 1: I want to leave you with a couple remind enders. One,

2452
02:09:00,880 --> 02:09:03,320
Speaker 1: if you haven't yet left a rating or review on

2453
02:09:03,320 --> 02:09:06,200
Speaker 1: iTunes for this podcast. You know, I've been you know,

2454
02:09:06,280 --> 02:09:09,000
Speaker 1: preaching this for years now, but I'm still gonna keep

2455
02:09:09,040 --> 02:09:11,120
Speaker 1: mentioning because it really does help and I really do

2456
02:09:11,200 --> 02:09:13,440
Speaker 1: appreciate it. So thank you in advance if you're able

2457
02:09:13,480 --> 02:09:16,680
Speaker 1: to go in there and share some feedback. Also, I'm

2458
02:09:16,680 --> 02:09:19,120
Speaker 1: putting a lot of my content now in two places.

2459
02:09:19,640 --> 02:09:22,120
Speaker 1: The Mediator dot com is where all my new articles are.

2460
02:09:22,320 --> 02:09:25,000
Speaker 1: That's where the articles that include the new podcasts are

2461
02:09:25,040 --> 02:09:27,360
Speaker 1: as well, so make sure you're following what's going on

2462
02:09:27,400 --> 02:09:30,080
Speaker 1: over at the meat Eater dot com. And then secondly,

2463
02:09:30,360 --> 02:09:32,920
Speaker 1: the wire Hunt Instagram account has more than it ever

2464
02:09:33,000 --> 02:09:36,760
Speaker 1: has before. I'm doing almost daily stories documenting all sorts

2465
02:09:36,800 --> 02:09:39,480
Speaker 1: of things going on in my white tail life UM,

2466
02:09:39,560 --> 02:09:43,879
Speaker 1: as well as different recommended books, UM, different breakdowns of properties.

2467
02:09:43,880 --> 02:09:47,000
Speaker 1: You can find that all at Wired to Hunt on

2468
02:09:47,080 --> 02:09:50,400
Speaker 1: Instagram and other than that, I just want to uh

2469
02:09:50,560 --> 02:09:52,560
Speaker 1: wish you all luck in the woods, if you're shed hunting,

2470
02:09:53,040 --> 02:09:55,800
Speaker 1: if you're out there scouting or hanging stands or working

2471
02:09:55,800 --> 02:09:58,120
Speaker 1: on some habitat, I hope you're having fun with that too,

2472
02:09:58,600 --> 02:10:02,000
Speaker 1: And as always, thank you for listening, and until next time,

2473
02:10:02,360 --> 02:10:10,200
Speaker 1: stay wired, don't h