1 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:11,000 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to save our production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 2: I'm Annie, I'm going vocal bum and today we have 3 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 2: an episode for you about Buffalo Mozzarella. 4 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: Which is an episode of Long time Coming. Yeah, yep. 5 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 1: We were supposed to record it like a week and. 6 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 2: A half ago, but then I had Shenanigans and then no, 7 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 2: wait did you have was did I have two Shenanigans? 8 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:32,600 Speaker 1: Multiple? 9 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 2: And then you had Shenanigans and anyway, yeah, so here 10 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:38,520 Speaker 2: we are. 11 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 1: Here, we are. Thank you for your patience as always. 12 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, thank thank thank you all so much. 13 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:50,960 Speaker 2: Thank you, Annie, I thank you, thank. 14 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: You, thank you. Andrew. Oh gosh, yes, thank you, Andrew. 15 00:00:55,320 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: Thank everybody, thank you, thank you. Was there any particular 16 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 1: reason this episode was on your mind? Born? All right? 17 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 2: So I was looking for a cheese episode, and I 18 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:11,399 Speaker 2: was struck by how passionately people were arguing about when 19 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 2: water Buffalo arrived in Italy. 20 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: Did warn me about that? 21 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 2: And I was like, I want to learn more about that, 22 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 2: despite the fact that we had already done an episode 23 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 2: on Mozzarella in general and relatively recently, only in March 24 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 2: of twenty twenty two. But yeah, like I just I 25 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 2: felt like there was a lot to this specific variety 26 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 2: of mozzarella that we didn't cover in that episode and 27 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 2: that I wanted to go into, possibly because I was 28 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:41,400 Speaker 2: just craving pizza. 29 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 1: Oh yes, which speaking of that is my main experience 30 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: with buffalo mozzarella in the United States. And in fact, 31 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 1: I had a good group of friends of mine come 32 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 1: from outside of Atlanta. We went to Pride this weekend. 33 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 1: O oh yeah, yeah, it was really it was a 34 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 1: really good time. But they were talking about all of 35 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: the things that are Atlanta, things that they wanted that 36 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:10,799 Speaker 1: they couldn't necessarily get where they are. And one of 37 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 1: the things they brought up was kind of these like 38 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:20,520 Speaker 1: nicer Italian pizzas that have buffalo mozzarella. That is my 39 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: main experience with it. 40 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:25,239 Speaker 2: We do have a few great, like like sort of 41 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:27,800 Speaker 2: upscale pizza restaurants in town that have like you know, 42 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 2: like the traditional brick oven and the whole thing, and 43 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 2: like really high quality ingredients like buffalo mots. 44 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, last we didn't get any. I'm on, 45 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 1: I have been looking for where I could get some 46 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: of this cheese anyway. You can see our past cheese episodes. 47 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 1: We've done quite a few we've got kind of a 48 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 1: cheese multiverse A this. 49 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely, it's like we both really enjoyed cheese. 50 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 1: What that can't be? Well, I guess this brings us 51 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 1: to our question. Sure, Buffalo mozzarella, what is it? Well? 52 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 2: Buffalo mozzarella is a type of fresh stretched cheese made 53 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 2: from the milk of water Buffalo. It's made by working 54 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 2: the cheese the cheese curd specifically, sort of like a dough, 55 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:29,359 Speaker 2: until it's this mass of soft strings that you then 56 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 2: shape into balls or other shapes and then package in 57 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 2: brine or usually whey. Each palm sized ball will develop 58 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 2: this thin layer of slightly firmer rind on the outside 59 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 2: like tender and chewy but sturdy, and the inside will 60 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 2: stay softer, even more springy, almost but not quite spongy, 61 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 2: almost like a tender piece of meat or mushroom, but 62 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 2: so creamy. It'll be bright white in color. Buffalo milk 63 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 2: is really rich, and you get that low salt from 64 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 2: the brine. Some varieties are smoked and those get a 65 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 2: little firmer and yellowed. It's served in usually savory dishes, 66 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 2: either cool or warm, maybe with fresh fruit or preserves 67 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 2: or tomatoes and herbs. As a snack, maybe with toasted 68 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 2: bread or sliced onto a pizza or chopped into a 69 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:22,599 Speaker 2: pasta or a salad. It melts into these stretchy pools 70 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 2: when it's heated. 71 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: It's a it's. 72 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 2: A very rich mazzarella. It's like, uh, it's like kissing 73 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:32,720 Speaker 2: a baby, like right on its soft little cheek. It's 74 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:35,280 Speaker 2: like it's like, oh, yeah, like this is what civilization 75 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 2: is for. 76 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:45,719 Speaker 1: Mm yeah yeah yeah buffalo. 77 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 2: And sorry to storty to like to invoke a baby 78 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:55,600 Speaker 2: in the middle of a food description. We it savored. 79 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:59,280 Speaker 2: Do not do not condone eating babies. That's not what 80 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:05,480 Speaker 2: we're about. Kissing babies. Yes, eating babies. No, okay, anyway, 81 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:08,919 Speaker 2: Buffalo mozzarella does have a protected designation of origin in 82 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 2: the European Union, meaning in order to pulo cheese that 83 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 2: thing you have to make it under certain traditional rules 84 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 2: in this certain traditional area. But first, cheese basics. 85 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 1: So, cheese is. 86 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:25,040 Speaker 2: A tasty way of preserving milk and condensing its nutrients. 87 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:28,360 Speaker 2: Milk is an emulsion that is a stable blend of 88 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 2: these little globs of fats and stuff spread throughout water 89 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 2: and stuff. To condense it, you just convince the fats 90 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 2: and stuff to clump together into curds so that you 91 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 2: can drain off most of the water and stuff, which 92 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 2: is the way that also works to preserve it because 93 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 2: many microbes like us need water to live. In the 94 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 2: case of buffalo mozzarella, you use a type of enzyme 95 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 2: called rennet and a starter culture of lactic acid bacteria. 96 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 2: Rennet is an enzyme found in the stomachs of baby 97 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 2: ruminants that helps them digest milk by separating it into 98 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:02,480 Speaker 2: curds and whys renn. It can also be extracted from 99 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:05,479 Speaker 2: certain plants or grown in labs using microbes, but in 100 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 2: this case you're using animal rennet. Lactic acid bacteria are 101 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:12,840 Speaker 2: bacteria that eat sugars in milk and excrete acids, which 102 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 2: also makes curds clump up for complicated reasons that you 103 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 2: can see our Cheddar episode about, but I'm not going 104 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:21,359 Speaker 2: to go into them today. So to create the curds, 105 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:24,719 Speaker 2: you heat the milk to specifically between thirty three and 106 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 2: thirty nine degrees celsius that's ninety to one h two fahrenheit. 107 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 2: Then add your start culture and your reddit. It'll coagulate 108 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 2: into curds in way, and you separate out the curds, 109 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:37,599 Speaker 2: and I'm guessing save the way for future starter culture 110 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:42,719 Speaker 2: or for production of like complimentary products like ricata. Anyway, 111 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 2: you then cut the curds into fine grains, which helps 112 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:48,839 Speaker 2: drain more whey. The curds are allowed to rest in 113 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 2: the way for a few hours, allowing time for lactic 114 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 2: acids to develop, and you want that because a lower 115 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 2: mor acidic pH like right around five will help the 116 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 2: curds stretch in the next step, because that's acidic enough 117 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:04,720 Speaker 2: to dissolve some of the calcium phosphate in the milk proteins, 118 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 2: which lets them hydrate more, which keeps them flexible. Speaking 119 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 2: of flexible, next up, you're going to create that stretch 120 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 2: and springiness, and you do that by by mucking around 121 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 2: with the proteins and the curd encouraging them to form 122 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 2: up into these long, flexible parallel chains. So first you 123 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 2: drain the curds to remove as much of the way 124 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 2: as possible. Then you heat them in very hot water, 125 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 2: like at least eighty celsius one hundred and seventy five fahrenheit, 126 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 2: like near to boiling, if not actually boiling, and they 127 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 2: will start to melt and fuse together, and then you 128 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 2: keep taking the mass out and stretching it over and 129 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 2: over again in a single direction like lift and pole, 130 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 2: lift and pole, which lines up the protein strands and 131 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 2: traps fat and water among them in these tiny threadlike 132 00:07:55,880 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 2: pockets or channels. And this is different from the structure 133 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 2: sure of something like a sheddar, which is more like 134 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 2: a like an even web of proteins and fats, and 135 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 2: also lower moisture. So finally you wind up with this 136 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 2: big mass of cheese, and then you twist and pinch 137 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 2: off pieces with your fingers, which is actually where the 138 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 2: word mozzarella comes from, mazzare, meaning to cut off. The 139 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 2: maker might also twist pieces of the cheese into braids 140 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 2: or other forms. It's then rested in cold water to 141 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 2: set up that firmer outer rind, and then in brine 142 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 2: to add salt. It's then packaged in whey, sometimes with 143 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 2: salt added to keep it soft and moist throughout the 144 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 2: distribution process. The finished mozzarella will be porcelain white in color, chewy, springy, tender, melty, 145 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 2: and in a little bit like milky salty. Yeah, and stretched. 146 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 2: Fresh cheeses are a category called pasta falata In Italian 147 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 2: buffalo mozzarella tastes a little extra rich because buffalo milk 148 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 2: is higher in fat than cow milk. Cow milk covers 149 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,599 Speaker 2: around like three to four percent fat, buffalo milk is 150 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:13,320 Speaker 2: more like seven to eight and that pedo dictates that 151 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 2: to be called mozzarella di Buffalo Campana, it must be 152 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 2: made with milk from buffalo raised in particular parts of 153 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 2: the Campania region. Like the official document lists different state 154 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 2: roads as boundaries, and those buffalo can only be fed 155 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 2: on hay, greens and corn that are grown right there. 156 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:35,199 Speaker 2: The milk must begin processing into cheese while it's still fresh, 157 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:39,079 Speaker 2: within sixty hours of coming from a buffalo. The rennet 158 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:42,840 Speaker 2: used is calf rennet harvested in the area, and the 159 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:46,319 Speaker 2: starter culture is way that's left over from previous batches 160 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 2: of mozzarella. It must be packaged immediately where it's produced. 161 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 2: There's a whole digital record that producers have to keep 162 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 2: for traceability. It's really fascinating in a kind of dull way. 163 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 1: I love it. Oh yeah, we need a miniseries. 164 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, Yeah, it's the hold up. I really 165 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:09,199 Speaker 2: do want to want to do a cheese crime show. 166 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 2: I think it would be great. 167 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 1: Oh yes, cheese crime, cheese crime. 168 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:19,200 Speaker 2: All of this being said about that pedo. People do 169 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:22,679 Speaker 2: make mozzarella cheeses from buffalo milk in other places, such 170 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 2: as Egypt, in Brazil like all the time. 171 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 1: So yes, yes, wow? What about the nutrition? 172 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 2: Cheese is a nutritionally dense food on purpose, eat a vegetable, 173 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 2: put one on your pizza. 174 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: I don't know. 175 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 2: I will say that due to the differences in like 176 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 2: the molecular makeup of buffalo versus cow milk, some people 177 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 2: who are intolerant of cow dairy are able to digest 178 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 2: buffalo milk cheese more easily. Don't take my word for it. 179 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:56,079 Speaker 2: Approach carefully, Approach carefully. 180 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 1: I love it. Well, we do have some numbers for you. 181 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, we do. Okay, So in twenty twenty three, 182 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 2: cheesemakers produced fifty five thousand, five hundred and eighty eight 183 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 2: tons of Pdo buffalo mozzarella, which is a fairly stable 184 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 2: amount year to year. That amount represents about seven hundred 185 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 2: and fifty million euros in sales, and they sell about 186 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 2: forty percent of that internationally. There are some one thousand, 187 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 2: three hundred farmers involved in its production and The entire 188 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:37,440 Speaker 2: production chain employs about eleven thousand people. 189 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:39,200 Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah. 190 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 2: As of the twenty teens, Italy is home to about 191 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 2: ninety percent of the population of European water buffalos, most 192 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 2: of which are reared for buffalo mozzarella production. The specific 193 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:55,599 Speaker 2: breed that Italy rears, the Italian Mediterranean buffalo, were about 194 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 2: four hundred and thirty five thousand buffalo strong as of 195 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:03,359 Speaker 2: twenty twenty three. Yeah, not bad doing okay. 196 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 1: There. 197 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 2: There is a Buffalo Fest in Naples every year. In 198 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 2: early September twenty twenty four was the eighth annual iteration. 199 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 2: In twenty nineteen they expanded it to nine days. It's 200 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 2: Nine Days of Buffalo Festival. They received some five hundred 201 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,719 Speaker 2: thousand guests that year and served tens of thousands of 202 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 2: buffalo dishes, from the cheese to burgers to buffalo ricata desserts. 203 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 2: Gluten Free menu tickets are cheaper by two euro which 204 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 2: I found fascinating because in America everything gluten free is 205 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:42,679 Speaker 2: so much more expensive. But maybe they were guessing that 206 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 2: you just wouldn't be eating the pizza, so you're just 207 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:48,559 Speaker 2: eating the peer cheese. So I don't know if you've 208 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 2: been I have questions. Right In a production of buffalo 209 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:57,079 Speaker 2: mozzarella increased by over twenty six percent from twenty thirteen 210 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 2: to twenty seventeen. Intensive farms are able to get some 211 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 2: eight liters of milk per buffalo per day, which is 212 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 2: a bunch because this milk is also again higher in 213 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 2: fat and protein than cow milk. It only takes about 214 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 2: four liters of milk of buffalo milk to produce a 215 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:21,440 Speaker 2: kilo of cheese. Cow's milk requires like two to three 216 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 2: times that much milk per kilo of cheese. 217 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:24,560 Speaker 1: One. 218 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:30,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, one large production center tore Lubara. Sure, I 219 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 2: might have just pronounced that in a Spanish way, but 220 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 2: here we are. They produce eleven thousand pounds of buffalo 221 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:45,440 Speaker 2: mozzarella a day. What it's a large, large industry. And yeah, 222 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 2: this one cheese represents about fourteen percent of the gross 223 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 2: domestic product of the Campania region, accounting for right, yeah, 224 00:13:54,160 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 2: some eleven thousand jobs. Wow, so popular, I could say, 225 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 2: sort of a big deal. 226 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, sort of a big deal. Confidently can say, okay, okay, 227 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 1: well there is a history of people arguing about it though. 228 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 2: Oh gosh, and heck, yeah there is and we are 229 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 2: going to get into that as soon as we get 230 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 2: back from a quick break forward from. 231 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 3: Our sponsors, and we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank 232 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 3: you again. 233 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 1: See our past cheese episodes, especially Mozzarella. But yeah, the 234 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: general story about cheese is people wanted to preserve milk. 235 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:50,240 Speaker 1: Cheese was a good way to do it. It may or 236 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 1: may not have been a totally accidental discovery based on 237 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 1: environmental factors, or hiding mistakes from royalty, which is a 238 00:14:56,760 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 1: popular legend that comes up all the time, or like 239 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 1: somebody fell in love yeah. 240 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 2: Yeah and either forgot the cheese or yeah, yeah, yes. 241 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 1: There's a lot of legends about cheese and a lot 242 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: of food products we talked about that have a familiar ring. 243 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 1: But anyway, when it comes to what you mentioned, Lauren, 244 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 1: the arguing about the water buffalo, Oh my goodness. Okay, 245 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 1: So the water buffalo, sometimes called the Asian buffalo, originated 246 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 1: in Southeast Asia as far back as twenty five hundred PCE. 247 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 1: How precisely these buffalo made it to Europe is the 248 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 1: source of a lot of speculation and disagreement. What we 249 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 1: do know is that they were in Italy by the 250 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 1: fifteenth century. 251 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, it is fascinating to me. Okay, so like so like. 252 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 2: Did Hannibal bring them when he invaded Rome in two 253 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 2: hundred BCE? Did the Crusaders bring them back from the 254 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 2: Middle East in like six hundred CE. Perhaps the Normans 255 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 2: brought them from Sicily in about one thousand CE, where 256 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 2: they had been brought by the Arabs by nine hundred CE. 257 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 1: Nobody knows, Nobody knows. 258 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 2: What we do know is that it's likely that they 259 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 2: were imported more as working animals than as dairy animals. 260 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 2: Like South central Italy was full of these marshy plains 261 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 2: at the time, and these are animals that are comfortable 262 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 2: with waiting and are also powerful enough to haul heavy 263 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 2: loads or plows and the like. 264 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 1: So right, okay, So, however it happened, they did make 265 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 1: their way to Italy, Some sources trace using buffalo milk 266 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 1: water buffalo milk to make mozzarella in the area back 267 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:54,080 Speaker 1: to the twelfth century. Documentation indicates that monks from the 268 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 1: San Lorenzo monastery offered worshippers on their yearly pilgrimage something 269 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:05,159 Speaker 1: called matza, and many of these early mozzarellas may have 270 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:08,879 Speaker 1: been made with buffalo milk. Some argue, though, that this 271 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: cheese was made with cow's milk, not water buffalo, and 272 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 1: so it is not in fact reference to water buffalo cheese, 273 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 1: something I ran into frequently in this outline. In this argument, 274 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 1: farmers turned away from cow's milk to cheaper water buffalo 275 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 1: and goat's milk in the thirteenth century. Still, even other 276 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 1: sources argue that a sheep's milk cheese similar to mozzarella 277 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:45,360 Speaker 1: was being produced in first century CE Rome. Okay, By 278 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:49,200 Speaker 1: the fourteenth century, the cheeses in this family of cheeses 279 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:53,399 Speaker 1: that could survive transportation were being sold in nearby markets 280 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:54,360 Speaker 1: like Naples. 281 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:57,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, and smoked cheeses of these types were popular by 282 00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 2: this time, as smoking the cheese extended its shelf life. 283 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 1: Right. The word mozzarella in this context first appeared in 284 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 1: an Italian cookbook in fifteen seventy. 285 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:10,359 Speaker 2: It was written by a cook for the Pope's court. 286 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:17,359 Speaker 1: So fancy, yeah, big deal. Yeah yeah. Mozzarella, though, remained 287 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 1: pretty local for many centuries, but it became popular in 288 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 1: the eighteenth century, perhaps because the Bourbons started breeding water buffalo, 289 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:30,120 Speaker 1: especially in the region of Campania. Yeah. 290 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 2: Apparently the Bourbon dynasty was really big into agricultural research 291 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:40,159 Speaker 2: in Ferdinand the Fourth specifically set up this dairy for 292 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:42,879 Speaker 2: experimenting with cheese in this region. 293 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a whole thing. Not only was the 294 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:51,920 Speaker 1: dairy used for cheese production, but through crossbreeding, the buffalo 295 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 1: meat became more accessible and popular too. So Yeah, the 296 00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 1: unification of Italy in the nineteenth century had a negative 297 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:03,920 Speaker 1: impact on the water buffalo population after large portions of 298 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 1: the wetlands were drained for agriculture. According to some estimates, 299 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 1: the water buffalo stock dropped by up to seventy percent. 300 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:19,399 Speaker 1: This obviously was pretty devastating for buffalo mozzarell production, but 301 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 1: all was not lost. The expansion of rail systems in 302 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 1: the area helped further transport these cheeses to markets that 303 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: had never had access to it before. With improvements in 304 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:38,919 Speaker 1: technology and refrigeration, Mozzarella's popularity grew even more in the 305 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 1: twentieth century, particularly in Europe and the United States. American 306 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:47,160 Speaker 1: soldiers returning from World War Two brought back with them 307 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 1: this taste for mozzarella, and we talked about that in 308 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:54,680 Speaker 1: our Mozzarella episode of how it became such a popular cheese. However, 309 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: this popularity outstripped the capabilities of the water buffalo population 310 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: and farmers, so a lot of farmers turned to cow's 311 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:08,680 Speaker 1: milk instead to meet demand. Again, this argument about. 312 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:11,359 Speaker 2: Which animal is actually coming from which is part of 313 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 2: why there is such a traceable supply chain these days. 314 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 1: Yes. Yes. Water buffalo were first imported into the United 315 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 1: States in the nineteen seventies. 316 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 2: In nineteen eighty one, the Consortium for the Protection of 317 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 2: Campania Buffalo Mozzarella was created with the goal of protecting, enhancing, 318 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 2: and supervising this cheese and its traditions. It is certified 319 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 2: by the Italian Department of Agriculture, Food and Forestry. They 320 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:42,680 Speaker 2: have a research library in Naples and they call it 321 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 2: the Matzteca. 322 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:51,359 Speaker 1: I love this, Yes, I love this excellent, excellent. In 323 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three, Mozzarella di Buffalo Campania was awarded a 324 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 1: dop of Protected designation of origin. 325 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 2: In the two Given the popularity of the cheese, other 326 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:06,360 Speaker 2: areas like northern Italy and up into Germany have started 327 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 2: trying to raise water buffalo to make mozzarella type cheeses 328 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:15,360 Speaker 2: and other products. There's also been a push to reincorporate 329 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 2: buffalo meat as like a coproduct of the industry as 330 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 2: currently In many cases, the male calves are slaughtered a 331 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 2: few days after birth. 332 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:29,400 Speaker 1: Right and there have been attempts to produce buffalo mozzarella 333 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:33,639 Speaker 1: in the United States, but it's been difficult and inconsistent, 334 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:38,159 Speaker 1: partly because the climate largely just doesn't work well with 335 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:42,200 Speaker 1: water buffalo here. One of the big names that comes 336 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:46,359 Speaker 1: up in this conversation is writer Sam Anderson, who once said, quote, 337 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 1: the great white whale of American cheesemaking a dream so 338 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:57,680 Speaker 1: exotic and powerful that it drives otherwise sensible people into ruinous, 339 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: monomaniacal quest. Over the last last fifteen years, the attempt 340 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 1: to make authentic buffalo mozzarella to nail both its taste 341 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 1: and texture has destroyed businesses from Vermont to Los Angeles. 342 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:18,440 Speaker 1: It seems truly doomed. Wow, honestly, I cut that quote down. 343 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:20,359 Speaker 1: It's really good. 344 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:30,400 Speaker 2: The great white whale of American cheesemaking so excellent, oh, 345 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,919 Speaker 2: I guess, sort of speaking of yeah, because buffalo mozzarella 346 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 2: goes for a higher price than cow milk mozzarella does. 347 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:41,880 Speaker 2: There is cheese fraud. Of course, there is cheese fraud. 348 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 2: This is probably not happening with that pedio buffalo mozzarella. Like, 349 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 2: there are so many again checks and balances in that 350 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:51,159 Speaker 2: system that sort of protect it. 351 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 1: But one of the ways. 352 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 2: That they're trying to protect against it is so researchers 353 00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 2: have worked out the like five percent different in the 354 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:06,919 Speaker 2: proteins between buffalo milk versus cow milk, and they found 355 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 2: evidence that over half of packaged products claiming to contain 356 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 2: buffalo mozzarella are at least partially made from cow mozzarella. 357 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,639 Speaker 2: Study was done in twenty nineteen, but investigations are ongoing. 358 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: Again. We need to show all hilariously cheese crime. 359 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:33,400 Speaker 2: This year twenty twenty four, Naples hosted the first International 360 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:38,640 Speaker 2: Conference for buffalo mozzarella and milk products. Humans involved in 361 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 2: everything dairy buffalo, from veterinarians to breeders to researchers to 362 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 2: supply chain technicians to actual cheese producers, met to discuss 363 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 2: and connect and collaborate on industry topics. Some thirty research 364 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 2: projects were presented and this happened just at the end 365 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:55,720 Speaker 2: of September. 366 00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:04,480 Speaker 1: Wow, people are interested in buffalotrilla. Yes, they want to 367 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 1: learn more. 368 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:11,119 Speaker 2: Agreed, I just read like a lot about buffalo mozzarella. 369 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I want to learn more. So yeah, I 370 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,399 Speaker 1: do too well as always listeners, if you've been to 371 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,879 Speaker 1: any of these festivals, if you work in the industry 372 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: in some way, oh yeah, just like it, have recipes, 373 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,639 Speaker 1: have thoughts. We would love to hear from Always Always Always. 374 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 2: We do already have some listener mal for you, though, 375 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:33,479 Speaker 2: and we are going to get into that as soon 376 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 2: as we get back from a quick break. For a 377 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 2: word from our sponsors, and we're back. 378 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:52,440 Speaker 1: Thank you sponsors, Yes, thank you, and we're back with listener. Man. 379 00:24:58,240 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 2: I think I was off key on that one, but 380 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:01,439 Speaker 2: I think the both of us were. We're doing a 381 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,200 Speaker 2: very impassioned buffalo mozzarella. 382 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,920 Speaker 1: We were because it's like when you take a bite 383 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 1: into it, Yeah, it's just it's a symphony. It starts out, 384 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 1: it starts out kind of simple and then it has 385 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:20,800 Speaker 1: like the little complex things, but it's just it's a 386 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:24,640 Speaker 1: comforting nice It's just nice. Yeah, it's just. 387 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 2: Nice, you know, like which be sorry sorry, no, I 388 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 2: kind of prefer it like chilled to or like room 389 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:34,199 Speaker 2: temperature to hot, because I sort of like the the 390 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:36,400 Speaker 2: true of the anyway. 391 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 1: Anyway, Okay, we have a lot of thoughts jeez in 392 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:47,879 Speaker 1: general in general A few yes, so I wanted to 393 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:51,679 Speaker 1: start this listener email. Part of the Shenanigans we alluded 394 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 1: to at the top is I went to Seattle for 395 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,920 Speaker 1: almost a week for vacation. 396 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 2: And in the a for vacation. That's great, yes, but. 397 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,399 Speaker 1: Of course, so much of our job is hard to 398 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 1: disconnect from, Like I could talk about this and the 399 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 1: stormer talk about this, which is not a bad thing. 400 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:17,120 Speaker 1: But anyway, Listener, Rose, who has been a wonderful supporter 401 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 1: in the past, has Santa's kit Kat bars a Santa 402 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 1: Spiroshki sent me this list of restaurants I should go 403 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,360 Speaker 1: in Seattle because she lives in Seattle. Oh yeah, and 404 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:34,360 Speaker 1: I did hit up quite a few of them. I 405 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 1: am very excited to in the future do an episode 406 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 1: about Seattle Kariaki because I I kind of was dismissive 407 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:44,399 Speaker 1: of it at first alive and then I tried it. 408 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 1: I was like, okay, got you there. There was a 409 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:54,320 Speaker 1: lot of things. I had a lot of women run restaurants, 410 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:58,439 Speaker 1: which was amazing. But I got to meet up with 411 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 1: Rose and we went to a restaurant called Kama Neeggie together, 412 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 1: also run by a woman where they make soba in house. 413 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:14,679 Speaker 1: Oh no, they're one of like my memory is saying 414 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:19,440 Speaker 1: to restaurants that meet whatever requirements in the United States, 415 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:23,480 Speaker 1: but a small sample size of restaurants that do it. 416 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:27,439 Speaker 1: And you could see them making, Oh cool the soba 417 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 1: while you're eating. It kind of had like the you know, 418 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:34,359 Speaker 1: wrap around bar situation. That's so cool. Yes, and I 419 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 1: had a lot of amazing things. It was and Lauren, 420 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm counting on you or I should have 421 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:44,400 Speaker 1: warned you about this. What's the mushroom? It's my taki, 422 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 1: I believe. 423 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:45,399 Speaker 2: So. 424 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,480 Speaker 1: Yes, there was like a lot of things at my 425 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,359 Speaker 1: Taki because it's in that area. It's only for a 426 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 1: small amount of time, and I'd love mushrooms, so we 427 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:57,199 Speaker 1: had a lot of stuff like that. There was just 428 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: a lot of like fog ra. There's a lot of 429 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 1: duck and I got dipping noodles that had like duck 430 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 1: eatballs u zoo. 431 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:10,879 Speaker 2: That sounds so oh, that sounds so nice. 432 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 1: Yes, and it was so good. It was so good. 433 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 1: It was one of those things where I was like 434 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:18,639 Speaker 1: immediately angry after it was over because I was like, 435 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna be able to get this again. I'm 436 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 1: so I know that kind of meal. 437 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:28,120 Speaker 2: I know that kind of meal. Y also like right, 438 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 2: like like really good fresh noodles and just like a 439 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:34,719 Speaker 2: really simple dipping sauce is one of life's most amazing pleasures. 440 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 1: Absolutely so oh and I mean that's truly like the 441 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,720 Speaker 1: noodles were so good because otherwise I think it would 442 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 1: It's easy for it. It would have been easy for 443 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:50,800 Speaker 1: it to be kind of bland, but so good. The 444 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 1: dipping broth was so good and I was so mad 445 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 1: after it was over. I was full of satiated and happy, 446 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:02,120 Speaker 1: but I was. But thank you so much, Rose, who 447 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:03,800 Speaker 1: has been here for us. 448 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,560 Speaker 2: Oh yeah for a very long time. 449 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 1: Yes, we love we get those kit cat shit. Please 450 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,840 Speaker 1: don't feel pressured to see oh no, no, but no yet. 451 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 2: But it's been frabulous when we've had them to just 452 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 2: go like, oh yeah, hey, hey guys. 453 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 1: We would get our super producers together, we would divide 454 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 1: them up. It was just really fun. Yeah, fun time. 455 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 1: And Seattle, I was a very I had a great time. 456 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:28,920 Speaker 1: There's a lot of great food there, and I'm sure 457 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,520 Speaker 1: there will be in future episodes. Heck yeah, heck yeah. 458 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 2: A further shout out to Rose for us so so 459 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 2: news update on my household, and that I don't think 460 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 2: i've mentioned on the show before. I obtained a kitten 461 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 2: a couple of months ago. And yeah, and I and 462 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 2: I need to make it clear that that it's it's 463 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 2: it's both. This kitten is an absolute love of my 464 00:29:55,480 --> 00:30:01,600 Speaker 2: life and also an absolute pain in my butt. And 465 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,800 Speaker 2: she is kind of a little demon Her name is Bruce. 466 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 2: We thought she was a boy at first. It doesn't 467 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 2: really matter. She doesn't understand gender constructs. But when I 468 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:14,479 Speaker 2: first got her, Rose sent me this very nice note 469 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 2: on Instagram, asking. 470 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:19,640 Speaker 1: Very nicely if I needed help, which I did. 471 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, and so so yes, much much appreciated. Bruce appreciates 472 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:34,920 Speaker 2: it too, inasmuch as she appreciates anything that she's not 473 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:36,880 Speaker 2: actively clawing the life out of. 474 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:42,360 Speaker 1: She's not that bad. It's fine. 475 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 2: It's where we're getting along to it. She's just a kitten. 476 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:45,880 Speaker 2: She's just like a five month old kitten. And she 477 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:52,680 Speaker 2: has very sharp points. Yeah, she's come always. Oh she has, 478 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 2: Oh she has. Yeah, there are some days when she 479 00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 2: doesn't draw blood at all. 480 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:04,760 Speaker 1: I mean, look at that. That's progress. If that's what 481 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:06,200 Speaker 1: I'm hearing she was feral. 482 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,720 Speaker 2: It's a whole but anyway, okay, yeah, so so very 483 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:14,479 Speaker 2: very cute. You can you can see my Instagram vogel 484 00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 2: bomb like vog e l bomb. Yeah, if you want 485 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 2: to see pictures anyway, Yes, so thank you to Rose 486 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:26,800 Speaker 2: for that. Also, EJ wrote when I opened the podcast 487 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:28,600 Speaker 2: app as soon as I got on the train this morning, 488 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:32,000 Speaker 2: my heart started racing when I saw today's episode. Uzu 489 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 2: is my jam, unfortunately not literally, and I knew I 490 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,080 Speaker 2: had to write in again just to be clear. Though 491 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 2: I'm more of a yuzou lover than an expert. I 492 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 2: think I've loved uzu even before I knew what it was. 493 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,000 Speaker 2: Back when I used to wear fragrances, my favorite one 494 00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:48,440 Speaker 2: turned out to have top notes of uzu, lemon and 495 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 2: green peppers. Yeah, so it's no surprise that when I 496 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:55,400 Speaker 2: moved to Japan, Yuzu kush Show quickly became one of 497 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,240 Speaker 2: my favorite condiments. Usu is one of those things that 498 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 2: easily tricks me into ordering anything with it on the menu, 499 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,800 Speaker 2: especially if it's a limited time only item. However, it's 500 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,960 Speaker 2: not always great. Don't get me wrong, It's almost always delicious, 501 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,240 Speaker 2: but sometimes they just sprinkle a bit of uzu on 502 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 2: top and call it a day. Not really worth the 503 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,960 Speaker 2: upcharge that comes with the limited time label. The first 504 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 2: time I had ramen in Japan was at a ramen 505 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:22,040 Speaker 2: shop in Asakusa, Tokyo on New Year's Eve. Almost all 506 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 2: the shops were closed given the holiday, but I was starving, 507 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,040 Speaker 2: so I ducked into this particular spot and had a 508 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 2: wonderful show you ramen topped with some yuzu peel in 509 00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 2: the bra. Over the years, I've returned to confirm whether 510 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,160 Speaker 2: it was really that good or if I was just 511 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,200 Speaker 2: that hungry or nostalgic for a simpler time when Japan 512 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 2: was still new and sparkly to me. I'm happy to 513 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 2: say it still holds up. By the way, their unique 514 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:47,960 Speaker 2: gioza made with chicken and ho do same vermicelli instead 515 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 2: of the usual pork, is fantastic. Also, they consistently use 516 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,200 Speaker 2: double yolk eggs, which I've rarely seen elsewhere. Maybe you 517 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 2: could enlighten us on the science behind double yolk eggs 518 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 2: in a future episode. The best easy products are those 519 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 2: where the flavor is introduced subtlely, like yuzu ice cream 520 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:07,760 Speaker 2: or yuzusake. Instantly after listening to the episode, a friend 521 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,400 Speaker 2: messaged me saying they're sending me a bottle of yuzusake 522 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,680 Speaker 2: from their prefecture. Which culinary gods of providence do I 523 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 2: owe this luck to? 524 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 1: Is it you? 525 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:15,840 Speaker 2: Annie? 526 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:16,240 Speaker 1: And Lauren? 527 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:19,640 Speaker 2: A single yuzu fruit doesn't give much juice, so most 528 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:21,480 Speaker 2: of the yuzu juice I find here is mixed with 529 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:25,120 Speaker 2: something else, like lemon juice. Yzu ponzu or any ponzu 530 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,600 Speaker 2: is a favorite dipping sauce at home. Whenever we make 531 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:30,760 Speaker 2: nabe Japanese hot pot, there's always some yuzu panzu for 532 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:34,160 Speaker 2: dipping our meats and veggies before eating. Takiyuki is another 533 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,880 Speaker 2: dish that pares well with ponzu. While most people enjoy 534 00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:40,240 Speaker 2: it with mayo or takayuki sauce derived from worstershire sauce, 535 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:43,560 Speaker 2: some purists prefer it with something lighter, like ponzu or 536 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:47,000 Speaker 2: dashi soup. My favorite east for yuzu is in banking 537 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:51,160 Speaker 2: Filipino flun called letchiflun instead of vanilla. I steep the 538 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:55,480 Speaker 2: milk and yzupeel, sometimes kabosu peel, which brightens the richness 539 00:33:55,480 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 2: of the egg. Yolks and condensed milk. Finally, yizuboa yuzu 540 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,320 Speaker 2: bath is one of my favorite winter activities. Since good 541 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:06,640 Speaker 2: usu can be expensive, I wait for the less than 542 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,720 Speaker 2: perfect uzu to go on sale. And yes, I also 543 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,000 Speaker 2: use the yuzu from my leche fluan if I remember 544 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,520 Speaker 2: to leave some rind on the fruit. I like to 545 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:16,759 Speaker 2: lightly rub the usu on my skin. Whether it has 546 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 2: any real benefits, I'm not sure, but it feels nice 547 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:22,920 Speaker 2: and I end up smelling like yuzu afterward. Savory or sweet. 548 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:26,960 Speaker 2: Yusu and its citrus cousins like kabosu and sudachi are 549 00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:30,160 Speaker 2: incredibly versatile and brighten up anything you add them to. 550 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:31,840 Speaker 1: Ps. 551 00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:33,520 Speaker 2: It took me a few days to finish this email, 552 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:37,320 Speaker 2: so I've actually already received the yuzuzake it's called yuzubie 553 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:42,319 Speaker 2: from a Funasaka brewery in Takeyama. Looking forward to having 554 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:43,920 Speaker 2: it with some gioza this evening. 555 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:52,840 Speaker 1: No listen, EJ. Every time you write it's a roller 556 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:57,400 Speaker 1: coaster of cravings. I was not expecting the yoza to 557 00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 1: come in at the end. 558 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,600 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and especially it's the same kind of like 559 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:05,759 Speaker 2: you're almost mad because like you can't be eating those things. Yes, 560 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,279 Speaker 2: I mean, I mean, thank you for making me this mad. 561 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:11,520 Speaker 2: It's a wonderful anger. 562 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:16,160 Speaker 1: It is. It's an anger that comes from the most 563 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,759 Speaker 1: relatable place. I think I want to be eating that. 564 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:23,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I'm so happy for you that you get 565 00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:23,759 Speaker 2: to eat it. 566 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:29,200 Speaker 1: Yes, Yes, angry at you that you get to eat it. 567 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:36,000 Speaker 1: It's both, it's both, it's both. I do love all 568 00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,480 Speaker 1: of these Yuzoo notes. A lot of people have written 569 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:43,680 Speaker 1: in about y Zoo, and I love that you've got 570 00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:49,160 Speaker 1: the experiences with the drinks, with the sauce, with the baths. 571 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:52,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, with the soups, with the just just as across 572 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:52,800 Speaker 2: the board. 573 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:53,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. 574 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:55,600 Speaker 2: See, this is what I was looking for, because right 575 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,840 Speaker 2: I don't have that much personal experience with it. I 576 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,919 Speaker 2: feel like I feel like I mostly see it as 577 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:05,520 Speaker 2: a cocktail edition and that's kind. 578 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 1: Of it me too, which is clearly a shame. Yeah. 579 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:14,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. Also, now I'm interested in double yolk egg science, 580 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,719 Speaker 2: so let's figure that out at a later date in time. 581 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:22,799 Speaker 1: That I feel like that's a very aspirational episode which 582 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,359 Speaker 1: we have been on a run of doing. 583 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:28,200 Speaker 2: We have, we have I don't know if a cult. 584 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:29,960 Speaker 1: Topics. 585 00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,800 Speaker 2: Yes, I don't know if I'm up for like eggs 586 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:33,840 Speaker 2: slash chickens. 587 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:38,080 Speaker 1: Right, that's that's a lot. That's very much. So maybe 588 00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:41,600 Speaker 1: this would actually be good because it's very it's narrow. Yeah, yeah, 589 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:47,680 Speaker 1: there you go. I go. Okay, we'll look in to it. Yes. Well. 590 00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:51,640 Speaker 1: In the meantime, thank you to both of these listeners 591 00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:55,440 Speaker 1: for writing in for supporting us. If you would like 592 00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:58,840 Speaker 1: to write into us, you can Our email is hello 593 00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:01,920 Speaker 1: at saberpod dot com. We are also on social media. 594 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,919 Speaker 2: You can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at 595 00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:06,799 Speaker 2: saver pod and we do hope to hear from you. 596 00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:10,000 Speaker 2: Savor is production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from my 597 00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:13,160 Speaker 2: Heart Radio, you can visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 598 00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:15,799 Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as 599 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,600 Speaker 2: always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. 600 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:20,560 Speaker 2: Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots 601 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:29,680 Speaker 2: more good things are coming your way.