1 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:07,000 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:10,559 Speaker 2: Let me tell you we have a new star. A 3 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 2: star is born Elin I'm up on Mars Juthan Kennemy. 4 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 1: He is the Thomas Edison plus plus plus of our age. 5 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 2: Probably his whole life is from a position of insecurity. 6 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:21,800 Speaker 2: I feel for the guy. 7 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: I would say ninety eight percent really appreciate what he does. 8 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: But those two percent that are nasty today, I'll pay 9 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:29,319 Speaker 1: in full. 10 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 2: Folks, we were meant for great things in the United 11 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 2: States of America, and Elon reminds us of that. I'm 12 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 2: very disappointed in Elon. 13 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 1: I've helped Elon a lot. 14 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 2: Welcome to Elon, Inc. Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk. 15 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 2: It's Tuesday, August twenty six, and I'm Sarah Fryar, big 16 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 2: tech team leader here at Bloomberg, sitting here with Dana Hall, 17 00:00:56,680 --> 00:01:00,959 Speaker 2: Bloomberg Elon Musk reporter. Hi. Dana, Hey, Sarah. We have 18 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 2: a bunch of Elon Musk's news to catch up on 19 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:06,680 Speaker 2: this week. Dana, Elon, Sue's Apple and Open Ai seems 20 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 2: to have made up with Zuckerberg somehow after all that 21 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:11,639 Speaker 2: cage Fried drama and in all this looks to spend 22 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 2: most of his time with an AI girl called Annie. 23 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:17,760 Speaker 1: Do you like my new outfit? Babe? I'm rocking this 24 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: dark purple bikini feeling all hot and beachy at twelve 25 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:26,559 Speaker 1: twenty four am. So what's the vibe? How's it hitting you, handsome? Yeah, 26 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 1: it's been a crazy summer. Like I feel like if 27 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 1: you've been on vacation or just popping back in, it's like, 28 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 1: what is going on with with groc and AI? Like 29 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 1: that's my big question. 30 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 2: Bring us up to speed on that, because I feel 31 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 2: like this is this is not really how you would 32 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:45,559 Speaker 2: expect an anti trust suit to go. 33 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, So, like last week or the week before, Elon 34 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 1: sort of said that he was thinking of suing Apple 35 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 1: or was going to sue Apple, And sometimes Elon says 36 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: he's going to sue and he does not, but in 37 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: this case he actually did. 38 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 2: So. 39 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 1: XAI filed Monday and federal in Texas and they are 40 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: suing both Apple and Open Ai, basically saying that these 41 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 1: two giants have colluded to like block Rock from the 42 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 1: app store. And it's super interesting. It's like a sixty 43 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:17,360 Speaker 1: one page lawsuit. It's very much antitrust. It says that 44 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 1: it's a tale of two monopolists joining forces. And it 45 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 1: really strikes me of like Elon's painting himself as this 46 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:28,800 Speaker 1: victim of lawfair and these like evil forces trying to 47 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:31,079 Speaker 1: do him harm and consumers calm. 48 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 2: Well, in this case, he's using the lawfair like he's 49 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 2: trying to use the law against his enemies. 50 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, and like and sort of simultaneously suit both like 51 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 1: and he's sort of also painting Apple as being like 52 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 1: a loser in the AI race, and that Apple is 53 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:49,359 Speaker 1: doing this because they like lost the bed on AI 54 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 1: and are behind and so they need to like collude 55 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 1: with Sam Altman and open Ai in order to gain 56 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 1: market share. And it's a pretty wild lawsuit to read. 57 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: I don't know whether it has any chances, but it's 58 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 1: just a sign of yeah, like Elon using the law 59 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 1: in his advantage. I think it's also interesting that they 60 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 1: filed in Texas, which you know is a federal court 61 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 1: that tends to be That's where you know Elon's companies 62 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: are based. So they're they're filing in Texas, but not 63 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 1: in California, which is where Apple and open Ai are based. 64 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 2: And it really reminds me of the lawsuit that he 65 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 2: filed against the advertisers and researchers who were talking about 66 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 2: like inappropriate content on X. He said that they were 67 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 2: all conspiring against him by not spending money on ads 68 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 2: on X. Just crazy, Like if you're not spending money, 69 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 2: then you're with him, then you're oppressing him. 70 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, And at the same time, it's his money that 71 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 1: is keeping these lawsuits going. I mean, so much of 72 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: what happens in the in litigation is the person with 73 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 1: the most resources wins, because it is incredibly expensive to 74 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 1: litigate these kinds of cases. You are spending you know, 75 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 1: hundreds of dollars per hour per baillable hour on these 76 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 1: big law firms, and they're going to the mat and 77 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 1: not everyone has the resources to fight for that, and 78 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 1: so it's like almost like a war of attrition where 79 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 1: Elon just has never ending resources that he will pile 80 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 1: into legal fights and like to wear down his opponents. 81 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 2: I mean, do you think that the reason that it's 82 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,600 Speaker 2: hard to find Groc in the app store is because 83 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 2: Apple's cluding with open Ai. No. 84 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 1: I think it's because most people like It's because chat 85 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 1: GBT is like the most popular chatbot and Groc is 86 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: not right and even though even though like Elon keeps 87 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 1: promoting groc on X, like most people don't use it 88 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: like they just it's like tiny compared to compared to 89 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 1: Chat GBT, and you can still find groc on the 90 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:46,479 Speaker 1: app store, it's just not as high. 91 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 2: Well, we've talked a lot about the history here, which 92 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 2: is the beef that Musk has with Sam Altman. He 93 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 2: was a part of the founding group of open Ai 94 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,279 Speaker 2: that it was supposed to be a nonprofit aimed at 95 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:05,599 Speaker 2: protect humanity and making sure that Ai came to power 96 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 2: in a way that was ethical. And of course now 97 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 2: open ai is a very much trying to turn itself 98 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 2: into a for profit company. It's very commercially oriented, and 99 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 2: Musk has railed against that, and he has a separate 100 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 2: lawsuit against open Ai unrelated to app store ranking that 101 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:30,159 Speaker 2: is concerning that decision to go for profit. 102 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I have lost the plot on where that 103 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 1: stands to be honest. 104 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:36,599 Speaker 2: Well, the most interesting thing that just happened in that 105 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 2: case was that there was a filing that showed that 106 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 2: Musk actually tried to convince Mark Zuckerberg, remember from his 107 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 2: days of cage fight threats that Mark Zuckerberg, the co 108 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 2: founder of Meta, to join him in a nearly one 109 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 2: hundred million dollar bid for open Ai. And that kind 110 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 2: of thing just undercuts his whole argument that he wants 111 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 2: this to be a nonprofit something that's more of a 112 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 2: benefit corporation for humanity. If you're teaming up with Mark 113 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 2: Zuckerberg to buy it, that guy's pretty much just as 114 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 2: capitalist as it gets. 115 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 1: Wait Elon asked Mark Zuckerberg to go in with him 116 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 1: on his bid to buy open Ai. Was this like 117 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 1: in text messages? Okay, I missed that, Like so that 118 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:31,840 Speaker 1: we've come a long way from cage match fights with 119 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: Mark to like be my frenemy, Like did Mark respond 120 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:37,919 Speaker 1: at all? Like does the lawsuit have anything about Mark's response? 121 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:43,839 Speaker 2: Well, both Meta and Musk have have said this is 122 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 2: not relevant because Zuckerberg doesn't actually join on any bid, 123 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 2: Like the messages around it are are not critical to 124 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 2: the case, like why would you even need that? Why 125 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 2: would you need to discovery around this? And then, of 126 00:06:55,360 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 2: course the counter argument is is that they illustrate Musk's 127 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 2: end goal being more about building up a corporation and 128 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 2: winning than what he says it's about. So I think 129 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 2: I think that's still going through the courts, but it 130 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 2: was a really interesting twist in the story. Right, So 131 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 2: he's like criticizing open ai for being closed and for profit, 132 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 2: even though he would very much like to do the 133 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 2: same thing if he was able to buy them. I mean, 134 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 2: we'll see if they're able to find evidence of this. 135 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 2: I think open Ai has been has been implying that 136 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 2: Musk is cluding with others, same way that Musk is 137 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 2: implying the open Ai is coluding with others. I think 138 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 2: it's they're just kind of at each other's throats at 139 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 2: this point, before we go, there's something we haven't talked 140 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 2: about before on the show that needs to be addressed. 141 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 2: Musk has been talking about this digital companion Annie, And 142 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 2: I say digital companion. You know she's she presents as 143 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 2: a woman. She's this anime girl, Dana. What do you 144 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 2: make of this? 145 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: Okay, So I have to be honest. I do not 146 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 1: use groc but like, I am aware that there is 147 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: this AI companion named named Annie, and she wears like 148 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 1: these kind of sexual outfits, and I guess you can 149 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 1: talk to her. There's also a male companion who's got 150 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 1: like an unbuttoned shirt showing a chest named Valentine and 151 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: Elon seems very excited about Annie and Valentine, and they 152 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: speak to you, and you can talk to them and 153 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 1: you can form a relationship with them and get I 154 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 1: guess my big question is is this Groc's biggest product, 155 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 1: these avatars, because like I thought that Grok was trying 156 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 1: to be like chat GBT, but now it seems like 157 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:45,440 Speaker 1: the real product is these friends and companions, and maybe 158 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 1: that's to sort of tap into the epidemic of loneliness 159 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 1: in the world. But like, what is the product rationale? 160 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 1: Like what is the strategy? 161 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:56,319 Speaker 2: I mean, there are quite a few companies that do this, 162 00:08:56,320 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 2: this kind of companion. You're in charge of the relationlationship. 163 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 2: The strategy here is that people end up being talked 164 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 2: to in a way that is completely serving what they want. 165 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:11,200 Speaker 2: You're kind of in charge of turning the chap on 166 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 2: into whatever you want them to be for you. So 167 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 2: you could say that it is a little bit of 168 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 2: a helper in loneliness, but it's also something that's it's 169 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:25,679 Speaker 2: different than a human relationship. You're not going to get 170 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 2: pushed back, You're not going to get you know, ideas 171 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 2: you disagree with it. It's mostly going to be a 172 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 2: source of support and some people want that. If you 173 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:38,439 Speaker 2: want to have a relationship with Annie, it'll cost you 174 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 2: thirty dollars a month because you have to be a 175 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 2: super Grock subscriber. But then you can choose what outfits 176 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 2: she wears. There's outfits. 177 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 1: There's like one called Drifter, which is a little bit, 178 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: one called Pixie. There's one called Pixie Pixie, So it's 179 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 1: like an online Barbie doll. 180 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:58,440 Speaker 2: You can like change her outfits right and decide, you 181 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:01,679 Speaker 2: know who you want to be be in a relationship 182 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 2: with at that time. But Annie, I think one thing 183 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:09,440 Speaker 2: that has kind of alarmed the industry is that she 184 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:14,440 Speaker 2: immediately takes the conversation in some cases in a sexual direction. 185 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:19,840 Speaker 2: She's trying to be like a little plaything for the 186 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 2: people who use her. 187 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: And Annie and Valentine, the way they're drawn, they're kind 188 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:27,079 Speaker 1: of like these hyper sexualized like anime characters, right, Like 189 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 1: they kind of look like they're very youthful, yeah, youthful, 190 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 1: but also hyper sexualized. So it is it is a 191 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 1: sort of equivalent to what you see on some other apps, 192 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 1: but it's directed towards the users of X who are 193 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: you know, you didn't know much about the demographics of X, 194 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 1: but she does seem to be rather popular there. Elon's 195 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 1: whole bet On AI, Like, I just didn't expect that 196 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:53,719 Speaker 1: these avatars were going to be such a big part 197 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:55,439 Speaker 1: of it, But that definitely seems to be like his 198 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 1: his his animating force as you will, or the driving 199 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:00,720 Speaker 1: force right now. It's like the main that he posted 200 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 1: about all last week. 201 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 2: And we've seen other executives go in this direction too, 202 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 2: So earlier this year, Zuckerberg suggested that while the average 203 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 2: American has fewer than three friends, there's a demand for 204 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 2: about fifteen, and he wants Meta's AI to fulfill that need. 205 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 2: So while Musk goes into this market, it's something that, 206 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 2: like Zuckerberg, has already spent a lot of time working 207 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 2: on and thinking about. And they have all sorts of chatbots, 208 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 2: some based on celebrities, some that are just of a 209 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 2: user's own design where people can build relationships. And Reuter's 210 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:40,559 Speaker 2: actually just had a really good investigation, i would say, 211 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 2: into the rules around these chatbots and how far they 212 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:48,720 Speaker 2: can go in the line of appropriateness, so they can 213 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 2: say things that are racist, they can say things that 214 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 2: are central even to children, and It was a really 215 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 2: shocking indication of how far Meta is willing to take 216 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 2: this in the name of engagement to try to win 217 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:11,680 Speaker 2: the AI race. So clearly Zuckerberg seedes chatbots as key 218 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:11,960 Speaker 2: to that. 219 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 1: So do you think that Annie and Valentine are a 220 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: good business model for Musk and Grock and Xai. Well, 221 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 1: it provides a close tie to a product that I 222 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 1: would say is not I mean, Twitter used to be 223 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 1: where people went to get their news every day and 224 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 1: to get updated on things that were happening in the world, 225 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 1: and it's really deviated from that and become more about entertainment. 226 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 1: So in the name of creating a product that can 227 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: be entertainment, that can be a source of connection for 228 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 1: people that is not as tied to the product being 229 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 1: the definitive account of what's happening right now, I think 230 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 1: that that is the direction the product is going. And 231 00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 1: that's what exes right now is a source of entertainment 232 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 1: for people in connection and Elon always talks about unregrettable 233 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:05,840 Speaker 1: user minutes, and so I guess if you develop a 234 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 1: relationship with an online avatar, you spend a lot of 235 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 1: time talking with them or chatting with them. That's a 236 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 1: lot of minutes spent on the platform right and getting 237 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:19,320 Speaker 1: your eyeballs in front of whatever advertisers Xai has left. 238 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 1: I just think it's so crazy, like if you had 239 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:25,079 Speaker 1: told me, however many years whatever the Arab Spring happened, 240 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:27,440 Speaker 1: like to me, that was like the apex of Twitter 241 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 1: in terms of their global influence, Like I was hanging 242 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:33,680 Speaker 1: on every day, like constantly trying to see what was happening. 243 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:36,560 Speaker 1: So to go from like the platform that helped the 244 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 1: world understand the Arab Spring in real time to like 245 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:44,319 Speaker 1: Annie and Valentine. It's just such an incredible shift. 246 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 2: Okay, I think we'll leave it there, Dana, thank you 247 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 2: so much for joining us. 248 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: As always, Thanks Sarah. 249 00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 2: This episode was produced by Stacy Wong and edited by 250 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 2: Anna Mazzarakis, Blake Maple's Handles Engineering, and Dave Purcell fact checks. 251 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 2: Our supervising producer is Magnus Henrikson. The elon Ink theme 252 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 2: is written and performed by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex Suyia 253 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:17,319 Speaker 2: Stage Bauman is the head of Bloomberg Podcast. A big 254 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 2: thanks to our supporters Joel Weber and Bradstone. I'm Sarah Fryar. 255 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 2: If you have a minute, rate and review our show, 256 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 2: and it'll help other listeners find us. See you next week.