WEBVTT - Part Four: Is Oprah Winfrey a Bastard?

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<v Speaker 1>Also media.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh boy, well, welcome back to Behind the Bastards of podcast,

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<v Speaker 2>where we just took a five minute break between part

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<v Speaker 2>three and part four of the Oprah Winfrey episodes. If

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<v Speaker 2>you're all like me, you mainline some doom scrolling news

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<v Speaker 2>from your phone about how bad things continue to be

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<v Speaker 2>and also how the Equal Rights abeddment is ratified, but

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<v Speaker 2>also not great stuff. You know, folks, Whenever I start

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<v Speaker 2>to think we live in the dumbest society that's ever lived,

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<v Speaker 2>and like, how sad for us to live in such

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<v Speaker 2>a stupid, stupid society, I have something that helps me

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<v Speaker 2>get some historical perspective, which is I have a very

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<v Speaker 2>big book right next to my bed that I read

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<v Speaker 2>a little bit of every night called The Assyrians. And

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<v Speaker 2>that really helps because there's literally ass in the name

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<v Speaker 2>of that culture, like ass just right on the front

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<v Speaker 2>of the book. So you know what, we're not so silly,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, you know, at least you're not an ass Syrium. Right,

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<v Speaker 2>it's fine, it's fun, We're good.

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<v Speaker 3>You done whatever it takes.

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<v Speaker 2>Whatever it takes. I'm just trying to feel better. I

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<v Speaker 2>feel like other people don't enjoy the word ass being

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<v Speaker 2>on the front of a book as much as I do,

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<v Speaker 2>because they are no longer. Four. How's our guest today,

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<v Speaker 2>bridget Todd and Andrew t How are we doing?

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<v Speaker 4>Doing well?

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<v Speaker 3>I had a really good Climbentine in the break.

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<v Speaker 2>Clutch that's good.

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<v Speaker 1>I convinced Jamie loft Is to cover a topic I

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to cover in sixteenth minute. During that five minute break,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm efficient.

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<v Speaker 5>Oh wow, and Andrew, I tried to make your salad

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<v Speaker 5>and it was really good.

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<v Speaker 3>It's really good salad. It's not my salad, but unfortunately

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<v Speaker 3>it's TikTok. They plagiarized it either way, but it is

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<v Speaker 3>TikTok's salad. I guess that's sure. It's someone's alan. I

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<v Speaker 3>understand that.

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<v Speaker 1>But TikTok has the best recipes, honestly, all right, question maybe.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, you don't know.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I pledge allegiance to communist China.

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<v Speaker 2>You know what? We all pledge allegiance to communists China.

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<v Speaker 2>I spent three minutes on what is that? What's the

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<v Speaker 2>new one? I forgot the name of this joke I

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<v Speaker 2>spent the joke's not going to work anymore. Whatever, fuck it,

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<v Speaker 2>it's done. It's done. Oprah, pill us go I couldn't

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<v Speaker 2>be less interested and a TikTok alternative or TikTok. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't need either of them. What I do need is

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<v Speaker 2>to tell y'all more about Oprah Winfrey.

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<v Speaker 3>The TikTok of her day.

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<v Speaker 2>The TikTok actually kind of yes, kind of yes, although

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<v Speaker 2>Oprah again, I mean, I guess big difference is like

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<v Speaker 2>TikTok had like really launched a popularity with like tweens

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<v Speaker 2>and teens, whereas Oprah is immediately and for her whole

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<v Speaker 2>career very very much locked into like thirty to fifty

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<v Speaker 2>year old middle class American women. Like that is, as

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<v Speaker 2>not the whole because she's popular all over the world,

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<v Speaker 2>but like she has a lock that's like unequaled by

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<v Speaker 2>anyone else on that specific demographic, which is like a

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<v Speaker 2>very influence. It's everyone's mom's right, Like I'm not saying

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<v Speaker 2>I hope like people say that to be like joking.

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<v Speaker 2>Like my mom, who I disagreed with but respect a lot,

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<v Speaker 2>watched Oprah every single fucking day, right like everyone's mom did.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, Like I could tell when Oprah covered something on

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<v Speaker 5>her show if my mom sat me down after school.

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<v Speaker 4>To be like, are you having rainbow parties, like me

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<v Speaker 4>talking about rainbow parties, bridget.

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<v Speaker 6>So.

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<v Speaker 2>As I pointed out earlier, Oprah at this point in

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<v Speaker 2>her career was kind of and we're talking the start

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<v Speaker 2>of the nineties now indistinguishable from Jerry Springer. And I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not talking about that on a like specifically even on

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<v Speaker 2>a moral level, just in terms of that is how

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<v Speaker 2>cultural critics talked about her. Right this was trash TV.

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<v Speaker 2>It's hard to get to again, hard to get to

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<v Speaker 2>grips with if, like you know, you grew up with

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<v Speaker 2>her in the nineties when she was kind of in

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<v Speaker 2>between a movie star and a god like Oprah. Oprah

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<v Speaker 2>was like sainted in a lot of households. But right

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<v Speaker 2>around the time Winfrey started her satanic panicking, Ralph Nader

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<v Speaker 2>named her as one of many talk shows in the

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<v Speaker 2>country that got quote all their ideas from the National Inquirer.

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<v Speaker 2>Now in her excellent critical book Age of Oprah, And

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<v Speaker 2>if you're going to read one book on Oprah Winfrey,

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<v Speaker 2>I recommend Age of Oprah by Janis Peckett's not a biography,

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<v Speaker 2>it's like an analysis of the role Oprah has played

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<v Speaker 2>in the evolution of American society over the last like

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<v Speaker 2>thirty years. Janis writes about the critiques that the wash

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<v Speaker 2>that Washington Post writer Tom Shales had of Winfrey's program,

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<v Speaker 2>labeling it talk rot. Quote Shales to crime talk shows

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<v Speaker 2>as a daily parade of wackos, looney stars, celebrities, freaks, geeks,

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<v Speaker 2>and gurus. Referring to the Oprah Winfrey Show, he noted

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<v Speaker 2>on one of her few serious, outer directed shows, Winfrey

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<v Speaker 2>dealt with declining literacy among the young and the escalating

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<v Speaker 2>crisis in American education, and promo, she looked into the

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<v Speaker 2>camera and asked, how dumb are we? There's every possibility

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<v Speaker 2>that talk rot is making us dumber, and that's him

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<v Speaker 2>saying that, right that, like Oprah's saying we're dumb for

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<v Speaker 2>not reading, but like her show is making us dumber,

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<v Speaker 2>and like, yeah, it's part of that loop. It's also

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<v Speaker 2>Oprah's going to later become one of the people who's

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<v Speaker 2>a major champion of literacy, although not in ways that

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<v Speaker 2>are unproblematic too. Anyway, I actually.

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<v Speaker 3>Got a little glimmer of hope from that, just like

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<v Speaker 3>a reminder that I know and I'm not like a teacher.

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<v Speaker 3>I had lunch with a friend who was a teacher

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<v Speaker 3>yesterday and he was like, the kids are not able

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<v Speaker 3>to read. Yeah, but I do think this might be

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<v Speaker 3>counterfactual to like survey data, But I do kind of

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<v Speaker 3>think every generation thinks the current kids can't are dumber

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<v Speaker 3>than ever before.

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<v Speaker 2>There's two there's two sides to this, right. One of

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<v Speaker 2>them is that every generation, as soon as they hit

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<v Speaker 2>a certain age, starts thinking that these next kids coming

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<v Speaker 2>up are uniquely fucked up and like everyone's ruined, right,

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<v Speaker 2>and like the world's going to hell in a hand basket,

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<v Speaker 2>and they're always kind of wrong. At the same time,

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<v Speaker 2>every single new generation is fucked up in a unique

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<v Speaker 2>new way, and like the TikTok kids are fucked up

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<v Speaker 2>on TikTok and iPads in a way that didn't exist before,

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<v Speaker 2>just like my gener our generation was fucked up by

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<v Speaker 2>message boards and online gaming and the like in ways

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<v Speaker 2>that were unique, you know to kids that had come previously,

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<v Speaker 2>just like our but our Gen X friends were fucked

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<v Speaker 2>up on leaded gasoline, you know.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, But it's also like, you know, the kids are

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<v Speaker 3>getting fucked up on particularly spicy epigrams from contulis. You know.

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<v Speaker 3>It's just like I think it's always been like this.

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<v Speaker 2>It has always been like this. There are unique ways

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<v Speaker 2>in which every generation is like fucked up. And also,

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<v Speaker 2>I'll just say this, kids, if you are a very

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<v Speaker 2>young person coming up right now and you're trying to

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<v Speaker 2>figure out how do I make it in this world,

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<v Speaker 2>one of the chief things you have on your side

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<v Speaker 2>is that everyone older than you thinks you're an idiot.

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<v Speaker 2>And the truth is that they're all as stupid as

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<v Speaker 2>you are. So take advantage of that. Take there's power

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<v Speaker 2>in being underestimated.

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<v Speaker 4>Kids, That's actually very wise advice.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm full of wise advice once every month.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>And one of the things that's problematic here is that

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<v Speaker 2>Oprah does deserve a lot of criticism for like the

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<v Speaker 2>satanic panic shit, the McMartin preschool trial shit. There's also

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of these big hoity twity cultural critics are

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<v Speaker 2>attacking her because they also view they rightly are like, well,

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<v Speaker 2>this satanic panic stuff is like smut, But also this

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<v Speaker 2>woman talking about how she needs therapy in order to

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<v Speaker 2>have a healthy sex life is smut. And so you see,

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<v Speaker 2>like it's this blending of like, well but no, but

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<v Speaker 2>that's actually a good thing that Oprah was doing. With like, no,

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<v Speaker 2>this is in fact smut, but it's all smut to

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of these guys. So that's part of the

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<v Speaker 2>problem of like looking at a lot of the criticism

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<v Speaker 2>of Oprah from this era is a lot of it

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<v Speaker 2>is attacking her for stuff that we're like, well, but no,

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<v Speaker 2>that was one of the good things that she did.

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<v Speaker 5>Wow, that's the trip of engaging in this kind of discourse, right, Like,

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<v Speaker 5>when you actually have substantive stuff to say, of course

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<v Speaker 5>people are going to paint everything with such a wide

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<v Speaker 5>brush when you also do these like satanic panic antics, right,

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<v Speaker 5>Like part of me is like, that's kind of on

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<v Speaker 5>you for having this in your portfolio in the first place.

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<v Speaker 3>Right well, also, like the satanic panic stuff is not

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<v Speaker 3>bad because it's smut. It's bad because it's lies, right.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, right, right, Yes, that's a very good note, Andrew,

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<v Speaker 2>like both of you very good notes. Thank you. Uh,

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<v Speaker 2>It's it's a mess because like you're looking for you

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<v Speaker 2>always want just a really good if you're doing this job,

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<v Speaker 2>I want a really good like, ah, this guy nailed

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<v Speaker 2>what's problematic, and it's always like this guy nailed part

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<v Speaker 2>of what was problematic and then said something really really

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<v Speaker 2>mean towards women. Yeah, I love the Washington Post.

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<v Speaker 3>It's fine. It's only getting better. They're turning it around.

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<v Speaker 2>They're turning it around.

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<v Speaker 3>God.

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<v Speaker 2>So one example of things that Oprah got attacked for

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<v Speaker 2>that she probably shouldn't have been that, like this was

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<v Speaker 2>considered smut by a lot of critics. What's her coverage

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<v Speaker 2>of the transgender community? And boy howdie, I am not

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<v Speaker 2>saying that it was what we would call today good.

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<v Speaker 2>What I am saying is that even as early as

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<v Speaker 2>when she was on people are talking, which was the

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<v Speaker 2>pre Oprah Winfrey Oprah Winfrey Show, she would bring on

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<v Speaker 2>transgender guests, and she's doing it because it's lascivious and

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<v Speaker 2>it gets attention, but she's also it's not like smut.

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<v Speaker 2>Like one her early guest that had an impact on her,

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<v Speaker 2>she finds this transgender mother with brittle bone disease. So

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<v Speaker 2>this is both somebody who was transgender, and if you

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<v Speaker 2>read stories about it, they use the term transsexual. They're

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<v Speaker 2>not trying to be shitty. That was the term in

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<v Speaker 2>common parlance at the time. I'm obviously updating it, but

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<v Speaker 2>this is a person who both is trans, is a mother,

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<v Speaker 2>and is a disabled American and the fact that Oprah's

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<v Speaker 2>letting her talk about her life is giving a sympathetic

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<v Speaker 2>and humanizing portrayal to someone who had zero visibility in

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<v Speaker 2>the culture at the time. As Kitty Kelly notes, the

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<v Speaker 2>show was criticized when it aired, but afterward Oprah happened

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<v Speaker 2>to see the child with the transgender quadriplegic. It was

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<v Speaker 2>just a moving thing, she said, I thought this child

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<v Speaker 2>will grow up with more love than most children before.

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<v Speaker 2>I was one of those people who thought all homosexuals

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<v Speaker 2>or anything like that were going to burn in hell

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<v Speaker 2>because the scriptures said it. And this is Oprah was

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<v Speaker 2>very homophobic as a child and as a young adult,

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<v Speaker 2>and she would list this experience as key to her

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<v Speaker 2>overcoming the bigotry that she had been raised with. Right,

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<v Speaker 2>And I think it makes totally As a child who

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<v Speaker 2>had lacked so much love in her life, the thing

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<v Speaker 2>that turns her around on this is being like, but

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<v Speaker 2>this lady's a really good mom, right, Like, she clearly

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<v Speaker 2>loves this kid. This kid's going to grow up with

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<v Speaker 2>That's all that matters to me as a kid who

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<v Speaker 2>was neglected, right. I think that's just worth stating too.

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<v Speaker 2>Before we get back into the criticism because that's kind

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<v Speaker 2>of beautiful. And the fact that she gets attacked for

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<v Speaker 2>this too is again it's part of the like, well,

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<v Speaker 2>if your Oprah, and you're trying to triangulate what is

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<v Speaker 2>okay for me to do and what is not. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>getting attacked both for the stuff that is bad and

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<v Speaker 2>also for the stuff that it's like, No, it's great

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<v Speaker 2>that she did this, Like, I'm glad she did, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>In January of nineteen ninety four, a thirty nine year

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<v Speaker 2>old Oprah Winfrey announced her on air plan to stop

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<v Speaker 2>talking about quote how bad things are and instead try

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<v Speaker 2>to bring more peace to her audience and thus the planet.

0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:01.120
<v Speaker 2>She had like a long speech about trash TV. This

0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:03.640
<v Speaker 2>is kind of her being like, I think the winds

0:12:03.679 --> 0:12:07.000
<v Speaker 2>are changing. I don't think that the smut kind of

0:12:07.080 --> 0:12:09.240
<v Speaker 2>TV where we're you know, we're talking about here's people

0:12:09.280 --> 0:12:11.480
<v Speaker 2>talking about like the fights they're having with their ex.

0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:13.640
<v Speaker 2>We'll bring them on and they'll fight on stage. That

0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:16.160
<v Speaker 2>was not going to be, you know, coming into the

0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:19.440
<v Speaker 2>late nineties as popular as it had been. And Oprah's like,

0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:23.680
<v Speaker 2>I want to rebrand myself. I want to have some prestige,

0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:26.480
<v Speaker 2>right and The way she does that, the way she

0:12:26.520 --> 0:12:30.240
<v Speaker 2>starts her pivot into I am a serious intellectual and

0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:34.120
<v Speaker 2>spiritual advisor, is to bring on friend of the pod

0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:35.440
<v Speaker 2>mary Anne Williamson.

0:12:35.800 --> 0:12:41.880
<v Speaker 4>Here she is, Here's there. There we go. Forgot about this?

0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:43.480
<v Speaker 4>She absolutely did.

0:12:44.240 --> 0:12:47.400
<v Speaker 2>This is This is when Oprah becomes a spiritual influencer.

0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:52.280
<v Speaker 2>Maryann Williamson is like a key part of that. Here's

0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:55.400
<v Speaker 2>how Janis Peck describes Williamson at this stage in her career,

0:12:55.440 --> 0:12:58.800
<v Speaker 2>and this is ninety four. Williamson is quote a former

0:12:58.920 --> 0:13:04.240
<v Speaker 2>nightclub singer. Describe spiritual psychologists, occasional advisor to Hillary Clinton,

0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:08.440
<v Speaker 2>spiritual guide for Hollywood stars, and major inspiration behind Winfrey's

0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:11.120
<v Speaker 2>own cosmology. What a resume?

0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:14.240
<v Speaker 4>Oh God, also doesn't believe in AIDS.

0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:19.719
<v Speaker 2>Doesn't Yes, we're about to talk about that. Mariette is

0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:24.320
<v Speaker 2>a complicated person to unpack from a harm standpoint, Much

0:13:24.440 --> 0:13:26.640
<v Speaker 2>like Oprah. They have a lot in common. I'm not

0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:30.480
<v Speaker 2>surprised they're friends. When she launched her twenty twenty presidential campaign,

0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:33.559
<v Speaker 2>queer focused news outlets like The Pink News rightfully pointed

0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:36.720
<v Speaker 2>out that during the AIDS crisis, Williamson, who had a

0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:39.640
<v Speaker 2>huge queer following, and had founded a Center for Living

0:13:39.679 --> 0:13:42.600
<v Speaker 2>in Los Angeles, published a book in nineteen ninety two

0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:46.079
<v Speaker 2>which argued quote, cancer and AIDS and other physical illnesses

0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:51.920
<v Speaker 2>are physical manifestations of a psychic scream. Williamson went on

0:13:52.000 --> 0:13:54.880
<v Speaker 2>to make an argument that is could be argued as

0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:57.280
<v Speaker 2>not so far from the Christian conservative line on AIDS.

0:13:57.320 --> 0:13:59.959
<v Speaker 2>We're not punished for our sins, but by our sins.

0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:02.760
<v Speaker 2>Sickness is not a sign of God's judgment on us,

0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:05.679
<v Speaker 2>but of our judgment on ourselves. Sickness is an illusion

0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:09.120
<v Speaker 2>and does not actually exist. And it's complicated because you

0:14:09.120 --> 0:14:11.320
<v Speaker 2>can translate all of that as like, well, she's saying

0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:13.760
<v Speaker 2>people with AIDS brought it on themselves, and she kind

0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:17.360
<v Speaker 2>of is. She's also not just focusing on gay people there.

0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:19.960
<v Speaker 2>She thinks if you have lung cancer, whatever, if you've

0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:23.600
<v Speaker 2>got fucking childhood leukemia, you brought it on yourself through

0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:26.600
<v Speaker 2>your bad thinking. Right, So it is it is not

0:14:27.000 --> 0:14:31.200
<v Speaker 2>targeted against gay people. But it's also really problematic in

0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:34.840
<v Speaker 2>that concept because you're saying everyone who gets sick brought

0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:37.920
<v Speaker 2>the sickness on themselves by virtue of their thoughts.

0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:43.120
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, all the positive vibe shit is so like just

0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:47.880
<v Speaker 3>consider the converse of what you're saying for two seconds.

0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:51.240
<v Speaker 2>I think everyone who yeah.

0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:53.960
<v Speaker 3>This child deserved to die because his vibes were off

0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:55.280
<v Speaker 3>and it's it's.

0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:57.440
<v Speaker 2>Not she's she would say no, I'm saying that, like

0:14:57.720 --> 0:15:00.520
<v Speaker 2>if you like, part of healing this is fixed people's

0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:04.040
<v Speaker 2>attitudes and improving the way they think and talk about themselves,

0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:06.640
<v Speaker 2>and that will help their physical health. I just think

0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:09.280
<v Speaker 2>everyone who believes this should have to lecture about this

0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:14.520
<v Speaker 2>to like a child cancer ward. Yeah, like explained to kids,

0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:18.920
<v Speaker 2>if your attitude was better, your bones wouldn't be rotting

0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:20.240
<v Speaker 2>inside you.

0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:20.440
<v Speaker 6>You know.

0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:24.960
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, it's such a hateful ideology and worldview. But like

0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:28.240
<v Speaker 5>the way people I know people who have said shit

0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:30.800
<v Speaker 5>like this, and it's like the way they dress it

0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:34.080
<v Speaker 5>up as like no, it's actually like a really profound

0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:37.320
<v Speaker 5>like it's the law of attraction, like you want this

0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:39.400
<v Speaker 5>to be happening to you in some way. The way

0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:41.800
<v Speaker 5>they dress it up like it makes them more superior.

0:15:42.160 --> 0:15:44.360
<v Speaker 4>I don't know. Something about that aspect of it really

0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:44.720
<v Speaker 4>gets me.

0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:50.040
<v Speaker 2>It's interesting because and I also think there's so much

0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:53.800
<v Speaker 2>of it that's so locked inside their heads, Like it's

0:15:53.800 --> 0:15:56.720
<v Speaker 2>even separate from how someone like Maryanne acts because I

0:15:56.720 --> 0:15:59.400
<v Speaker 2>found an article by a friend of hers called David Kessler,

0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:01.920
<v Speaker 2>and it was on her webs was he posted on

0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:04.040
<v Speaker 2>Medium and she had shared it. But this is a

0:16:04.080 --> 0:16:06.480
<v Speaker 2>guy who knew her. He had operated during the AIDS crisis.

0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:09.200
<v Speaker 2>He operated a home hospice for AIDS patients, and he

0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:12.080
<v Speaker 2>claimed quote I saw firsthand how she, Marianne cared for

0:16:12.120 --> 0:16:14.840
<v Speaker 2>the community. Marianne is not a person who's against medicine.

0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:16.480
<v Speaker 2>She was the one that sat with dying men with

0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:19.520
<v Speaker 2>AIDS when there was no cure, and when medications became available.

0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:21.520
<v Speaker 2>I saw her driving men to the doctor with AIDS.

0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:23.960
<v Speaker 2>I witnessed her paying for medication for men with AIDS.

0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:27.000
<v Speaker 2>So this is not a person who is like hateful

0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:29.960
<v Speaker 2>and callous. This is a person who is able to

0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:33.600
<v Speaker 2>sit with sick people and then also holding her head.

0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:36.000
<v Speaker 2>This completely unhinged that if you take it to its

0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:40.160
<v Speaker 2>logical conclusion, you're saying they brought it on themselves. And

0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:43.200
<v Speaker 2>that kind of cognitive dissonance is amazing to me. I

0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:44.360
<v Speaker 2>don't know how you can have that.

0:16:48.360 --> 0:16:50.720
<v Speaker 3>I mean, I think it is just like the like

0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:55.760
<v Speaker 3>only able to concentrate on the positive or right. You

0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:59.240
<v Speaker 3>perceive as a positive. It's just it is like, yeah,

0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:01.200
<v Speaker 3>I mean, you just have to be stupid, is the

0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:04.320
<v Speaker 3>main thing. Like oh, I don't understand the B side

0:17:04.359 --> 0:17:06.920
<v Speaker 3>of what I'm saying, because.

0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:08.679
<v Speaker 2>It is the answer so much more often than like

0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:12.640
<v Speaker 2>outright evil is like oh, well, you just your brain's

0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:16.200
<v Speaker 2>not function. You've got like somebody somebody dropped like a

0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:17.600
<v Speaker 2>wrench in there, and it's.

0:17:17.480 --> 0:17:17.679
<v Speaker 7>Just like.

0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:21.960
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, I'm like tempting.

0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:25.000
<v Speaker 5>It's like so tempting to weigh overthink it, and Andrew,

0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:26.760
<v Speaker 5>I feel like that you just really sum it up.

0:17:26.800 --> 0:17:30.160
<v Speaker 5>Some people just aren't smart. That's what's going on. Don't

0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:30.679
<v Speaker 5>overthink it.

0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:34.040
<v Speaker 2>I think it. I talk about this with our other host,

0:17:34.280 --> 0:17:36.520
<v Speaker 2>Margaret Kiljoy a lot about how like you can meet

0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:38.359
<v Speaker 2>people like out in the middle of nowhere who like,

0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:41.679
<v Speaker 2>if you look at their politics, is they support some

0:17:41.720 --> 0:17:44.159
<v Speaker 2>political things that are ghoulish, whereas the same people they

0:17:44.160 --> 0:17:47.920
<v Speaker 2>would vote to hurt, they would like sacrifice for in

0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:51.880
<v Speaker 2>person because like people are incoherent and not not all

0:17:51.920 --> 0:17:54.639
<v Speaker 2>that bright, right, Like it comes down to that a

0:17:54.640 --> 0:17:55.359
<v Speaker 2>lot of the time.

0:17:56.359 --> 0:18:02.359
<v Speaker 3>No, like there's there there just is no like even

0:18:03.000 --> 0:18:06.040
<v Speaker 3>second consideration or like like what does this what does

0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:08.840
<v Speaker 3>what I say mean, Yeah, they're just doing their thing,

0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:11.040
<v Speaker 3>and like, yeah.

0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:13.919
<v Speaker 2>This is Kurt Vonnegut was often of the opinion that like,

0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:16.119
<v Speaker 2>if we were just all a little bit too dumb

0:18:16.200 --> 0:18:18.200
<v Speaker 2>to keep society and like if we if we all

0:18:18.200 --> 0:18:20.960
<v Speaker 2>had like twenty percent less like like like got a

0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:24.320
<v Speaker 2>little bit more brain damage, things would be better because

0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:28.040
<v Speaker 2>like we it's it's this mix of we're so smart

0:18:28.119 --> 0:18:30.840
<v Speaker 2>and we're so stupid that causes all the problems. If

0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:34.240
<v Speaker 2>we were just like dogs, everything would be fine.

0:18:34.280 --> 0:18:39.360
<v Speaker 3>That's where I come back down to, Well, the problem

0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:41.880
<v Speaker 3>is just like it only takes one or two slightly

0:18:41.920 --> 0:18:46.439
<v Speaker 3>smarter evil dogs, yeah, to really function up, which is

0:18:46.440 --> 0:18:47.480
<v Speaker 3>where we're living now.

0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:52.040
<v Speaker 2>Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. Anyway, speaking of where we're

0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:55.479
<v Speaker 2>living now, Mary Ann Williamson was the beginning of Oprah's

0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:59.359
<v Speaker 2>pivot to alternative medicine and spirituality. As we noted millions.

0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:03.600
<v Speaker 2>Williamson's particular thing was A Course in Miracles, which is

0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:05.960
<v Speaker 2>a series of books. She did not write these, but

0:19:06.080 --> 0:19:08.359
<v Speaker 2>this is like this is her Bible at least at

0:19:08.359 --> 0:19:11.600
<v Speaker 2>this period of time, and a Course in Miracles is

0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:14.360
<v Speaker 2>the underpinning one of the underpinning so is We've talked

0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:17.240
<v Speaker 2>about a few others roots of what becomes like the secret, right,

0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:19.359
<v Speaker 2>this is a lot of where we get that from.

0:19:19.680 --> 0:19:22.480
<v Speaker 2>And a course in miracles is like, it's this set

0:19:22.520 --> 0:19:26.360
<v Speaker 2>of books that claims to integrate psychology and spirituality, which

0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:28.840
<v Speaker 2>is kind of what scientology also claimed to do. It's

0:19:29.280 --> 0:19:32.639
<v Speaker 2>it's what all of the good spiritual conmen claimed to do.

0:19:32.800 --> 0:19:33.000
<v Speaker 5>Right.

0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:37.760
<v Speaker 2>The author of this bookman Helen Shukman, claimed that it

0:19:37.800 --> 0:19:40.840
<v Speaker 2>had been fully dictated to her by Jesus Christ, and

0:19:40.880 --> 0:19:43.200
<v Speaker 2>she just wrote it down, so like, look, what are

0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:45.960
<v Speaker 2>my citations Jesus baby like.

0:19:47.680 --> 0:19:50.720
<v Speaker 5>An, that's such a good thing to claim the ball

0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:53.520
<v Speaker 5>to be like, oh, like, are you gonna go I'm

0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:53.960
<v Speaker 5>not wrong?

0:19:54.000 --> 0:19:55.320
<v Speaker 4>You're saying Jesus is wrong?

0:19:56.040 --> 0:20:00.240
<v Speaker 2>Jesus. How many times does she get sacrificed on gogtha huh?

0:20:00.720 --> 0:20:04.280
<v Speaker 2>Em an anna nail she got through your hands? Huh huh. Anyway,

0:20:04.280 --> 0:20:10.879
<v Speaker 2>don't go to the doctor. Speaking of which, don't go

0:20:10.960 --> 0:20:12.919
<v Speaker 2>to the doctor. Listen to these ads.

0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:21.760
<v Speaker 3>I was just gonna say, does an does no? None

0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:25.400
<v Speaker 3>of these people find it sacrilegious, how stupid Jesus is

0:20:25.440 --> 0:20:26.480
<v Speaker 3>in these instances?

0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:30.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, that he's that Jesus is like saying, medicine

0:20:30.240 --> 0:20:33.280
<v Speaker 2>doesn't really work. It's all about thinking your way through problems.

0:20:33.720 --> 0:20:37.639
<v Speaker 2>No nobody ever catches that, well, everyone does except for

0:20:37.720 --> 0:20:41.240
<v Speaker 2>these people. And it's also, you know, part of if

0:20:41.280 --> 0:20:44.119
<v Speaker 2>you're because William said, I'm not trying to like exonerate

0:20:44.119 --> 0:20:46.520
<v Speaker 2>her totally. One of the things I think that you do.

0:20:46.600 --> 0:20:48.640
<v Speaker 2>If you're like Harry's, you're like, well, I believe this,

0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:52.080
<v Speaker 2>but the fact that she's saying Jesus wrote this whole thing,

0:20:52.080 --> 0:20:54.440
<v Speaker 2>that's probably not gonna play on TV. I probably want

0:20:54.440 --> 0:20:56.919
<v Speaker 2>to keep that quiet, Like, so I'm going to And

0:20:56.960 --> 0:20:59.199
<v Speaker 2>what what Maryanne does is she's like, all right, well,

0:20:59.240 --> 0:21:01.840
<v Speaker 2>I think this is base good, but maybe the raw

0:21:01.960 --> 0:21:05.440
<v Speaker 2>stuff is a little bit too uncut for this audience.

0:21:05.680 --> 0:21:08.320
<v Speaker 2>So she writes her own book about a course in

0:21:08.440 --> 0:21:11.879
<v Speaker 2>miracles titled A Return to Love. That's basically her taking, like,

0:21:11.920 --> 0:21:13.280
<v Speaker 2>all right, how do I make this a little bit

0:21:13.280 --> 0:21:16.480
<v Speaker 2>more palatable. It's the late nineties, right, we gotta gotta

0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:18.880
<v Speaker 2>we gotta fix this a little bit before we get

0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:21.879
<v Speaker 2>this out into the audience. You know, I will attempt

0:21:21.920 --> 0:21:25.399
<v Speaker 2>an abbreviated explanation of a course in Miracles and as

0:21:25.440 --> 0:21:28.000
<v Speaker 2>a result, and you know, in addition to that, Williamson's

0:21:28.000 --> 0:21:33.200
<v Speaker 2>book it argues that our home is reality, and reality

0:21:33.320 --> 0:21:35.840
<v Speaker 2>is the Kingdom of God, and the Kingdom of God

0:21:35.960 --> 0:21:38.719
<v Speaker 2>is a perfect place. Where as the talking heads remind us,

0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:45.080
<v Speaker 2>nothing ever happens. Thus, all problems aren't real. Bad things

0:21:45.280 --> 0:21:49.600
<v Speaker 2>don't happen. There's no real problems. The things that you

0:21:49.800 --> 0:21:54.840
<v Speaker 2>perceive as problems are the result of you delusionally separating

0:21:54.880 --> 0:21:59.200
<v Speaker 2>your ego from reality. Our suffering, then, is something we

0:21:59.320 --> 0:22:03.359
<v Speaker 2>project into the world due to our hallucinatory belief that

0:22:03.400 --> 0:22:03.880
<v Speaker 2>we have sent.

0:22:04.760 --> 0:22:08.159
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, all of our faces on the screen are like

0:22:08.200 --> 0:22:12.280
<v Speaker 5>that when writer trying to do a trigonometry equation meme, what.

0:22:14.600 --> 0:22:16.560
<v Speaker 2>Are we good? Does that make sense to everybody?

0:22:16.800 --> 0:22:17.680
<v Speaker 4>Totally check that out?

0:22:18.480 --> 0:22:22.399
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, all right, that all scants. Yeah, So again this

0:22:22.520 --> 0:22:23.960
<v Speaker 2>is like, yeah, you can see a lot of the

0:22:24.000 --> 0:22:26.720
<v Speaker 2>spirit or the secret in this. You know you and

0:22:26.760 --> 0:22:29.280
<v Speaker 2>the ultimate the result of this is you fix your

0:22:29.359 --> 0:22:32.520
<v Speaker 2>life by fixing your attitude. Right. I found a good

0:22:32.560 --> 0:22:36.080
<v Speaker 2>summary of the book and a website titled Circle of Atonement,

0:22:36.160 --> 0:22:38.879
<v Speaker 2>which I think is probably related to some sort of

0:22:38.880 --> 0:22:41.040
<v Speaker 2>weird culture and other I don't know, but I'm going

0:22:41.080 --> 0:22:42.840
<v Speaker 2>to read an excerpt from that because I thought it

0:22:42.880 --> 0:22:47.439
<v Speaker 2>was funny. The Holy Spirit's message is that we never sinned,

0:22:47.560 --> 0:22:51.199
<v Speaker 2>never changed ourselves. We need only change our minds. The

0:22:51.200 --> 0:22:53.840
<v Speaker 2>guilt and pain produced by the ego was stored in

0:22:53.920 --> 0:22:56.720
<v Speaker 2>an unconscious level of mind, which also contains our call

0:22:56.760 --> 0:22:59.639
<v Speaker 2>for God's love and help. The Holy Spirit's answer to

0:22:59.640 --> 0:23:01.920
<v Speaker 2>our guest is that we did not do it, that

0:23:01.960 --> 0:23:04.879
<v Speaker 2>we are still as God created us because the separation

0:23:05.200 --> 0:23:08.800
<v Speaker 2>never recurred. The journey home is an illusion. We need

0:23:08.840 --> 0:23:12.680
<v Speaker 2>not purify ourselves or make sacrifices. Instead, we can wake

0:23:12.800 --> 0:23:15.720
<v Speaker 2>up at any time we choose. The Holy instant is

0:23:15.720 --> 0:23:18.639
<v Speaker 2>a moment when this is realized applied, a moment of

0:23:18.760 --> 0:23:21.879
<v Speaker 2>doing nothing. The miracle is a free deliverance from the

0:23:21.920 --> 0:23:25.040
<v Speaker 2>imprisonment of the human condition. It is our right because

0:23:25.040 --> 0:23:26.000
<v Speaker 2>we never sinned.

0:23:27.440 --> 0:23:34.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I listen, I'm a person that has like an

0:23:34.080 --> 0:23:41.760
<v Speaker 3>obnoxious way of speaking. But is it truly not possible

0:23:41.800 --> 0:23:45.679
<v Speaker 3>for just some like this just requires some child to

0:23:45.760 --> 0:23:47.760
<v Speaker 3>be like what the fuck are you talking about?

0:23:49.240 --> 0:23:49.560
<v Speaker 5>Yeah?

0:23:49.720 --> 0:23:52.920
<v Speaker 2>Right, like like little the fuck is this shit? Yeah?

0:23:52.960 --> 0:23:55.360
<v Speaker 2>We need you know, I mean you.

0:23:55.320 --> 0:23:57.639
<v Speaker 3>Need a comment section, I guess is what you need.

0:23:58.000 --> 0:23:59.480
<v Speaker 2>The cop I think what we need is a little

0:23:59.520 --> 0:24:02.399
<v Speaker 2>more folk envinement on Bill Burr lately. We need to

0:24:02.400 --> 0:24:05.399
<v Speaker 2>make that a government position where whenever someone starts doing this,

0:24:05.480 --> 0:24:08.959
<v Speaker 2>we have like a roughly a slightly thumb looking man

0:24:09.000 --> 0:24:10.480
<v Speaker 2>who comes to be like, what the fuck are you

0:24:10.520 --> 0:24:13.560
<v Speaker 2>talking about? Yeah, like, come on, stop this ship.

0:24:14.160 --> 0:24:16.120
<v Speaker 4>He should be he should be from Boston.

0:24:16.640 --> 0:24:21.520
<v Speaker 2>He should be from Boston. Ideally who just like when

0:24:21.560 --> 0:24:24.080
<v Speaker 2>someone says that, there should be like a yeah, vaguely

0:24:24.119 --> 0:24:26.880
<v Speaker 2>Bostonian guy going nah.

0:24:27.040 --> 0:24:30.280
<v Speaker 3>The problem is he should be from Boston, but not like.

0:24:30.200 --> 0:24:33.400
<v Speaker 2>That, not like like that, but not like not.

0:24:33.280 --> 0:24:35.359
<v Speaker 3>Like from Boston. If you know what I'm saying.

0:24:36.720 --> 0:24:39.760
<v Speaker 2>We need an Avengers initiative of guys who have that

0:24:39.880 --> 0:24:43.400
<v Speaker 2>remarkable mix of like physiognomy and accent that people will

0:24:43.440 --> 0:24:45.520
<v Speaker 2>be like, oh, yeah, that does sound kind of silly,

0:24:45.680 --> 0:24:47.960
<v Speaker 2>Like when he says it's silly, I actually, yeah, maybe

0:24:47.960 --> 0:24:48.920
<v Speaker 2>that is kind of stupid.

0:24:49.080 --> 0:24:55.320
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, oh my god, it's not yeah, materially dumber than anything.

0:24:55.480 --> 0:24:57.200
<v Speaker 3>Elon Musk tweets.

0:24:57.000 --> 0:24:59.360
<v Speaker 2>Oh absolutely not. But I think it leads us there.

0:24:59.359 --> 0:25:01.720
<v Speaker 2>In part and what of yes, when you get a

0:25:01.720 --> 0:25:04.240
<v Speaker 2>lot of shit, Because this is Janis Peck's book, This

0:25:04.280 --> 0:25:05.240
<v Speaker 2>is a lot of When you get a lot of

0:25:05.240 --> 0:25:07.240
<v Speaker 2>like more left wing critiques of OPRAH, one of the

0:25:07.320 --> 0:25:11.560
<v Speaker 2>running themes is like the whole The overriding message of

0:25:11.600 --> 0:25:16.440
<v Speaker 2>a lot of her show is problems have are all problems.

0:25:16.480 --> 0:25:19.399
<v Speaker 2>There's like, societal problems are individual problems, and they have

0:25:19.480 --> 0:25:23.600
<v Speaker 2>deeply individualistic solutions. And instead of like fixing systems, the

0:25:23.640 --> 0:25:26.760
<v Speaker 2>answer comes down more down to fixing yourself and your

0:25:26.880 --> 0:25:33.919
<v Speaker 2>individual attitude. And that can be very problematic, verging on solipsistic.

0:25:34.160 --> 0:25:37.119
<v Speaker 2>Right when we get into this era, it's like nothing

0:25:37.200 --> 0:25:40.040
<v Speaker 2>is the problems aren't real, and if I can make

0:25:40.080 --> 0:25:43.199
<v Speaker 2>myself okay with them, then I don't even need to

0:25:43.240 --> 0:25:45.600
<v Speaker 2>think about the other people who are suffering because the

0:25:45.680 --> 0:25:49.600
<v Speaker 2>problems aren't real. You know, this is a very narcissistic

0:25:49.680 --> 0:25:51.879
<v Speaker 2>and dangerous way to think about the world.

0:25:53.160 --> 0:25:55.679
<v Speaker 5>I can see how it functions as a pretty useful

0:25:55.760 --> 0:25:58.840
<v Speaker 5>like political and social ideology. Y, yes.

0:25:58.640 --> 0:26:02.480
<v Speaker 2>It's great for capitalists them like, yeah, if this is

0:26:02.520 --> 0:26:05.800
<v Speaker 2>your attitude, once you get a nice house, climate change

0:26:05.840 --> 0:26:10.800
<v Speaker 2>is no longer a problem. The Pacific palisades are a paradise. Hmmm,

0:26:11.280 --> 0:26:13.240
<v Speaker 2>some smells odd on the air. Let me look at the.

0:26:13.240 --> 0:26:16.000
<v Speaker 3>Way, you know, your mind palace is your paradise.

0:26:16.119 --> 0:26:19.000
<v Speaker 2>Right right. Yeah, and when you're living in a twenty

0:26:19.000 --> 0:26:22.520
<v Speaker 2>four thousand dollars a night hotel, because again the palisades

0:26:22.520 --> 0:26:25.200
<v Speaker 2>burned down, your mind palace is still there for you.

0:26:25.200 --> 0:26:29.320
<v Speaker 2>You know, that's the beauty. Ellie doesn't have a homelessness problem.

0:26:29.320 --> 0:26:31.320
<v Speaker 2>We just need more mind palace palaces.

0:26:31.600 --> 0:26:31.800
<v Speaker 6>You know.

0:26:33.280 --> 0:26:35.399
<v Speaker 3>This is also, by the way, more or less the

0:26:35.480 --> 0:26:37.600
<v Speaker 3>pitch from the bad guys in the Matrix.

0:26:38.280 --> 0:26:38.879
<v Speaker 4>It kind of is.

0:26:39.040 --> 0:26:42.159
<v Speaker 2>Yes, also that like literally you are you are like

0:26:42.200 --> 0:26:45.320
<v Speaker 2>the Matrix. But but no, this is actually how how religio,

0:26:45.400 --> 0:26:47.520
<v Speaker 2>how philosophy works, and religion works.

0:26:47.640 --> 0:26:49.440
<v Speaker 3>Yes, yeah, it's just like.

0:26:50.960 --> 0:26:53.360
<v Speaker 2>These are all that guy in the first Matrix movie

0:26:53.400 --> 0:26:55.080
<v Speaker 2>He's like, look, man, the steak tastes good. I don't

0:26:55.080 --> 0:26:55.639
<v Speaker 2>know what to tell you.

0:26:56.040 --> 0:26:59.080
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, this is the This is like the parable of

0:26:59.119 --> 0:27:02.040
<v Speaker 3>the Cave. People just really jones in for some more cave.

0:27:02.560 --> 0:27:05.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, hey, talking about that is what I took

0:27:05.800 --> 0:27:08.399
<v Speaker 2>out of the allegory of the cave. Is like, cave's

0:27:08.400 --> 0:27:11.760
<v Speaker 2>pretty cool, cave like shadows I love. Can you know?

0:27:12.000 --> 0:27:14.320
<v Speaker 2>The new season of Severance starts tonight, so I'm gonna

0:27:14.320 --> 0:27:16.840
<v Speaker 2>be sitting and watching some cave shadows. Baby, I'm good,

0:27:16.840 --> 0:27:21.320
<v Speaker 2>I'm ready give me some Adam Scott. So, thanks to

0:27:21.400 --> 0:27:25.199
<v Speaker 2>Williamson's advocacy and Oprah's platform, of course, in Miracles went

0:27:25.240 --> 0:27:28.520
<v Speaker 2>from fringe, it was getting more popular. I will say this,

0:27:28.600 --> 0:27:31.560
<v Speaker 2>it didn't entirely gain its popularity, but Oprah is a

0:27:31.600 --> 0:27:33.239
<v Speaker 2>large part of the fact that it sells more than

0:27:33.280 --> 0:27:37.520
<v Speaker 2>two million copies. And Oprah doesn't just plug that book

0:27:37.560 --> 0:27:40.440
<v Speaker 2>and her friend mary Anne's book. She and mary Anne

0:27:40.480 --> 0:27:43.200
<v Speaker 2>sit down and they lay out in this and again,

0:27:43.280 --> 0:27:46.160
<v Speaker 2>the point of this episode is Oprah announcing her show

0:27:46.200 --> 0:27:50.760
<v Speaker 2>is pivoting from being about bad things and sad stuff

0:27:50.800 --> 0:27:55.440
<v Speaker 2>to being about you know, empowerment and beauty. Right quote

0:27:55.680 --> 0:27:58.320
<v Speaker 2>during the hour, this is Jenny's peck. During the hour,

0:27:58.359 --> 0:28:01.679
<v Speaker 2>the two women identified various social problems crime, drug addiction,

0:28:01.800 --> 0:28:05.520
<v Speaker 2>TV violence, war, child abuse, prejudice as the price we

0:28:05.600 --> 0:28:10.240
<v Speaker 2>pay for ignoring our souls. Born of denial, this collective,

0:28:10.280 --> 0:28:14.679
<v Speaker 2>neglective soul had produced a diseased and dysfunctional society. The

0:28:14.760 --> 0:28:18.359
<v Speaker 2>antidote Williamson proposed was a shift in the paradigm on

0:28:18.440 --> 0:28:22.440
<v Speaker 2>the planet to activate an amazing healing force, the spirit

0:28:22.480 --> 0:28:25.800
<v Speaker 2>of divine consciousness. Which is within our souls. Well. She

0:28:25.880 --> 0:28:30.040
<v Speaker 2>prescribed various steps towards planetary healing, from praying to participating

0:28:30.040 --> 0:28:33.760
<v Speaker 2>in support groups. All were predicated on replacing negative thoughts

0:28:33.800 --> 0:28:37.520
<v Speaker 2>with positive ones, because our thoughts determine the experiences of

0:28:37.560 --> 0:28:38.200
<v Speaker 2>our lives.

0:28:40.320 --> 0:28:42.520
<v Speaker 3>I will just point out that if you substitute the

0:28:42.560 --> 0:28:44.960
<v Speaker 3>word urge tree in there a few times, this is

0:28:45.000 --> 0:28:46.520
<v Speaker 3>basically just elden ring.

0:28:46.600 --> 0:28:49.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, Well, Williamson has a writing credit on that.

0:28:49.760 --> 0:28:52.240
<v Speaker 2>It was her and George R. Martin really like banging

0:28:52.280 --> 0:28:54.280
<v Speaker 2>it out, and we know that's a lie. That's a

0:28:54.320 --> 0:28:56.320
<v Speaker 2>life story. That's almost credible.

0:28:56.760 --> 0:28:58.480
<v Speaker 5>You said it in a way I truly for a

0:28:58.520 --> 0:29:00.440
<v Speaker 5>second was like, I don't know if he's making a

0:29:00.520 --> 0:29:01.200
<v Speaker 5>joker not.

0:29:02.640 --> 0:29:05.040
<v Speaker 2>I would sit and listen to George R. R. Martin and

0:29:05.160 --> 0:29:07.480
<v Speaker 2>Mary Anne Williamson invent religion.

0:29:08.120 --> 0:29:08.960
<v Speaker 3>Oh my god.

0:29:11.080 --> 0:29:13.960
<v Speaker 2>So Oprah's pivot to Guru had begun. Over the coming

0:29:14.040 --> 0:29:16.600
<v Speaker 2>years and indeed decades, she would help introduce millions of

0:29:16.640 --> 0:29:19.840
<v Speaker 2>Americans to New Age thinkers like Eckert Toll, whose books

0:29:19.880 --> 0:29:22.240
<v Speaker 2>The Power of Now and a New Earth represent what

0:29:22.320 --> 0:29:26.160
<v Speaker 2>Slate writer Kurt Anderson described as a successful crusade against

0:29:26.240 --> 0:29:30.680
<v Speaker 2>reason itself. Here's one of Toll's most favorite quotes. Thinking

0:29:30.720 --> 0:29:33.959
<v Speaker 2>has become a disease. Disease happens when things get out

0:29:34.000 --> 0:29:37.400
<v Speaker 2>of balance. For example, there's nothing wrong with cells dividing

0:29:37.440 --> 0:29:40.400
<v Speaker 2>and multiplying in the body. But when this process continues

0:29:40.440 --> 0:29:43.520
<v Speaker 2>in disregard of the total organism, cells proliferate, and we

0:29:43.640 --> 0:29:47.480
<v Speaker 2>have disease. And Toll's argument here is that, like, overthinking

0:29:47.680 --> 0:29:50.160
<v Speaker 2>is a societal epidemic, and a lot of our suffering

0:29:50.160 --> 0:29:52.280
<v Speaker 2>as a species is because we don't coast enough on

0:29:52.480 --> 0:29:57.080
<v Speaker 2>vibes go with the flow more often. Compulsive thinking has

0:29:57.120 --> 0:29:59.760
<v Speaker 2>become a collective disease. Your whole sense of who you

0:29:59.840 --> 0:30:04.080
<v Speaker 2>are has been derived from mind activity. And like, I

0:30:04.120 --> 0:30:06.640
<v Speaker 2>think there's actually more than a little bit of move

0:30:06.960 --> 0:30:10.320
<v Speaker 2>fast and break things downstream of Toll. I don't think

0:30:10.400 --> 0:30:14.800
<v Speaker 2>there's zero percent of of of that there, but more

0:30:14.840 --> 0:30:17.480
<v Speaker 2>than that. Oprah's embrace of this guy represents a major

0:30:17.600 --> 0:30:20.160
<v Speaker 2>salient in the war against reason, which, if you hadn't

0:30:20.280 --> 0:30:24.320
<v Speaker 2>checked recently, reason is losing. Yeah, yeah, and this is

0:30:24.360 --> 0:30:27.719
<v Speaker 2>the reason we start talking. It's reasons may be lost.

0:30:28.360 --> 0:30:32.440
<v Speaker 2>YEA reason is at least like Great Britain on the

0:30:32.440 --> 0:30:35.320
<v Speaker 2>first day of the Battle of Britain. You know France

0:30:35.360 --> 0:30:37.640
<v Speaker 2>has has surrendered. I don't know what the French equivalent

0:30:37.640 --> 0:30:38.360
<v Speaker 2>of reason is.

0:30:38.840 --> 0:30:39.000
<v Speaker 6>Uh.

0:30:39.240 --> 0:30:43.000
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, we're watching those Stukas rained down on fucking London.

0:30:45.960 --> 0:30:46.720
<v Speaker 3>It's not good.

0:30:47.520 --> 0:30:53.240
<v Speaker 2>But what are you gonna do? I don't know. Yeah,

0:30:53.280 --> 0:30:54.320
<v Speaker 2>I actually have no idea.

0:30:54.400 --> 0:30:58.760
<v Speaker 4>Andrew, don't worry, don't think so much.

0:30:59.040 --> 0:31:01.240
<v Speaker 2>Don't think so much. Why am I thinking all this time?

0:31:01.320 --> 0:31:05.600
<v Speaker 2>Let's talk about Deepak Chopra. He is another gift that

0:31:05.640 --> 0:31:07.880
<v Speaker 2>Oprah gave the world, and his career was in some

0:31:07.920 --> 0:31:11.480
<v Speaker 2>ways a mirror of doctor Oz and honestly a less

0:31:11.520 --> 0:31:15.440
<v Speaker 2>toxic one. Chopra starts out as a well regarded into

0:31:15.480 --> 0:31:18.280
<v Speaker 2>chronologist until he quits that to become a guru to

0:31:18.320 --> 0:31:21.040
<v Speaker 2>the kind of people who embrace new spiritualities. Based on

0:31:21.120 --> 0:31:24.959
<v Speaker 2>airport bestsellers, Chopra is the kind of guy who peddles

0:31:24.960 --> 0:31:27.320
<v Speaker 2>stuff that seems well meaning and even harmless if you

0:31:27.320 --> 0:31:30.280
<v Speaker 2>don't look too deeply into what he's saying. The harm

0:31:30.360 --> 0:31:33.040
<v Speaker 2>largely comes from the fact that accepting his principles means

0:31:33.040 --> 0:31:36.240
<v Speaker 2>embracing lies about how the world works and denying basic science.

0:31:36.640 --> 0:31:39.840
<v Speaker 2>As doctor Chris Concilvio writes, he preaches the body as

0:31:39.880 --> 0:31:42.800
<v Speaker 2>made of a quantum energy, and there exists a dynamic

0:31:42.880 --> 0:31:46.000
<v Speaker 2>consciousness where the mind, body, and spirit are interwoven and

0:31:46.040 --> 0:31:51.000
<v Speaker 2>interconnected by an energy force that transcends matter and physical reality. Now,

0:31:51.440 --> 0:31:54.719
<v Speaker 2>because of this, Chopra often advises his followers that modern

0:31:54.720 --> 0:31:58.400
<v Speaker 2>medicine is useless or feudile, are fundamentally flawed in ways

0:31:58.400 --> 0:32:02.000
<v Speaker 2>that make it less reliable than in racing pseudoscience. Here's

0:32:02.040 --> 0:32:04.320
<v Speaker 2>a quote I found from an article on Chopra that

0:32:04.360 --> 0:32:07.600
<v Speaker 2>he wrote for his own website titled why doctors Can't

0:32:07.640 --> 0:32:11.640
<v Speaker 2>make You Well? What the public and most doctors hasn't

0:32:11.680 --> 0:32:14.000
<v Speaker 2>found out is that the cause of illness is becoming

0:32:14.000 --> 0:32:16.880
<v Speaker 2>more and more murky. It's not just germs and genes.

0:32:17.120 --> 0:32:19.400
<v Speaker 2>The germ theory of disease held sway for over a

0:32:19.440 --> 0:32:22.040
<v Speaker 2>century after the discovery of microbes and the arrival of

0:32:22.080 --> 0:32:25.800
<v Speaker 2>antibiotics to combat them. Gene therapy, long promise is the

0:32:25.880 --> 0:32:29.680
<v Speaker 2>answer to almost any disease, hasn't actually achieved much success,

0:32:29.800 --> 0:32:32.440
<v Speaker 2>although in certain cases, such as cancers that are caused

0:32:32.440 --> 0:32:36.600
<v Speaker 2>by a simple genetic mutation, targeted drug therapies have been successful.

0:32:37.120 --> 0:32:39.560
<v Speaker 2>The bigger picture is that genetics has led us into

0:32:39.600 --> 0:32:43.040
<v Speaker 2>a much more complicated view of the disease process, so

0:32:43.280 --> 0:32:46.600
<v Speaker 2>complicated that it is beyond the skill of doctors. Too

0:32:46.640 --> 0:32:49.400
<v Speaker 2>many factors are at work when illness arises, and the

0:32:49.440 --> 0:32:57.120
<v Speaker 2>disease model itself sometimes breaks down theories wrong. Idpac Chopra

0:32:57.240 --> 0:33:03.680
<v Speaker 2>can explain it. Your brain's not thinking good enough now.

0:33:04.800 --> 0:33:07.200
<v Speaker 3>I mean, but you know, I guess I feel like

0:33:07.240 --> 0:33:09.240
<v Speaker 3>someone should just say that's not true.

0:33:09.520 --> 0:33:13.680
<v Speaker 2>His last that's not how it is, Like antibiotics are great.

0:33:14.200 --> 0:33:18.400
<v Speaker 3>Uh, the model doesn't break down.

0:33:19.120 --> 0:33:23.080
<v Speaker 2>The model doesn't break down, bringing in gene therapy along,

0:33:23.240 --> 0:33:24.800
<v Speaker 2>like it's one of those things where's like, okay, well,

0:33:24.920 --> 0:33:27.200
<v Speaker 2>depending on what you mean by gene therapy. Sure, there's

0:33:27.240 --> 0:33:29.480
<v Speaker 2>a lot of shit that, like people talked about in

0:33:29.520 --> 0:33:31.920
<v Speaker 2>sci fi that hasn't happened, but that has nothing to

0:33:31.960 --> 0:33:36.080
<v Speaker 2>do with germ theory, right, Like germ theory is a

0:33:36.200 --> 0:33:39.800
<v Speaker 2>very robust model. Choper writes a line he did He

0:33:39.840 --> 0:33:43.560
<v Speaker 2>doesn't generally outright say don't take your meds. But the

0:33:43.680 --> 0:33:46.520
<v Speaker 2>conclusion you're led to from a lot of his writing

0:33:46.600 --> 0:33:49.600
<v Speaker 2>is don't take your meds. That whole article I just

0:33:49.680 --> 0:33:53.160
<v Speaker 2>quoted from is how doctors don't understand what causes schizophrenia,

0:33:53.520 --> 0:33:56.520
<v Speaker 2>and I think the conclusion that you're supposed to be

0:33:56.640 --> 0:34:00.400
<v Speaker 2>led to is maybe don't take those antipsychotics. Again, Chopra

0:34:00.520 --> 0:34:03.640
<v Speaker 2>doesn't say this legally. I am not accusing him of

0:34:03.680 --> 0:34:05.160
<v Speaker 2>saying this. I'm just saying I think a lot of

0:34:05.200 --> 0:34:08.680
<v Speaker 2>people reading that who are like, should I take my antipsychotics?

0:34:09.000 --> 0:34:12.359
<v Speaker 2>Might take from that article maybe I won't.

0:34:12.800 --> 0:34:14.120
<v Speaker 4>But I also saying it.

0:34:14.560 --> 0:34:15.839
<v Speaker 2>He's not saying it right.

0:34:16.239 --> 0:34:20.440
<v Speaker 3>It's also just like, you know, not like just because

0:34:20.920 --> 0:34:25.480
<v Speaker 3>like there isn't a full understanding of schizophrenia you can

0:34:25.560 --> 0:34:28.840
<v Speaker 3>really trust that chemotherapity, vaccine, et cetera.

0:34:29.120 --> 0:34:33.000
<v Speaker 2>Like, yeah, well, and there's always that real thing, which

0:34:33.040 --> 0:34:34.920
<v Speaker 2>is that like yeah, man, there's actually a shitload of

0:34:34.920 --> 0:34:37.799
<v Speaker 2>problems to the modern medicine tape, like treats and talks

0:34:37.800 --> 0:34:43.359
<v Speaker 2>about schizophrenia. Absolutely, you don't know anything about this, Yeah yeah,

0:34:43.400 --> 0:34:44.360
<v Speaker 2>like you're not helping.

0:34:45.239 --> 0:34:48.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. His hitches that I'm not burdened with all this

0:34:48.160 --> 0:34:51.239
<v Speaker 3>knowledge and history of the process so I have a

0:34:51.320 --> 0:34:53.560
<v Speaker 3>clearer insight into how to fix things.

0:34:53.960 --> 0:34:55.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, yeah. Yeah.

0:34:55.560 --> 0:34:58.600
<v Speaker 5>Really annoys me about this is how they're so good

0:34:58.800 --> 0:35:02.279
<v Speaker 5>at taking that one kind of like true thread, which

0:35:02.320 --> 0:35:06.320
<v Speaker 5>is like plenty of people feel unheard by the medical space,

0:35:06.360 --> 0:35:09.000
<v Speaker 5>and like, you know, they they feel like their their

0:35:09.000 --> 0:35:12.320
<v Speaker 5>symptoms or whatever their illnesses are not being properly treated.

0:35:12.560 --> 0:35:15.040
<v Speaker 5>And so I can see how this is so tempting

0:35:15.080 --> 0:35:17.520
<v Speaker 5>to be like, oh, well, what do they know about anything?

0:35:17.560 --> 0:35:19.880
<v Speaker 4>Why should I trust any of this? They're all hucksters.

0:35:20.000 --> 0:35:23.320
<v Speaker 5>Like it's so it's such a callous but tempting way

0:35:23.520 --> 0:35:27.600
<v Speaker 5>of getting people walking people toward this very dangerous line

0:35:27.600 --> 0:35:28.000
<v Speaker 5>of thinking.

0:35:28.040 --> 0:35:28.719
<v Speaker 4>Does that make sense?

0:35:29.160 --> 0:35:31.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, no, I think that absolutely does. I think

0:35:31.800 --> 0:35:35.440
<v Speaker 2>you hit it on the head. So Dpak has over

0:35:35.480 --> 0:35:37.759
<v Speaker 2>the years claimed that human aging can be reversed by

0:35:37.840 --> 0:35:40.239
<v Speaker 2>pure force of thought. He is as health law and

0:35:40.280 --> 0:35:44.600
<v Speaker 2>science professor Timothy Caulfield argues, a profit of alternative medicine

0:35:44.640 --> 0:35:48.200
<v Speaker 2>and the Great de Educator. Choper's book sold millions and

0:35:48.280 --> 0:35:50.279
<v Speaker 2>millions of copies after he was featured as a guest

0:35:50.280 --> 0:35:51.080
<v Speaker 2>on Winfrey's show.

0:35:51.080 --> 0:35:51.719
<v Speaker 4>And I don't know that.

0:35:51.800 --> 0:35:54.719
<v Speaker 2>I'd say he has no career without her, that's too much.

0:35:55.080 --> 0:35:57.960
<v Speaker 2>But he has less of one, right, Like he's a

0:35:57.960 --> 0:36:02.160
<v Speaker 2>lot less of a guy without Oprah. Without Chopra, we

0:36:02.200 --> 0:36:04.960
<v Speaker 2>probably don't get shit like the bleach drinking church, people

0:36:04.960 --> 0:36:07.680
<v Speaker 2>taking ivermectin to cure their cancer, and a decent chunk

0:36:07.719 --> 0:36:10.040
<v Speaker 2>of the anti VAXX movement, which we'll be talking about

0:36:10.120 --> 0:36:12.960
<v Speaker 2>later because Oprah's got some real involvement there and a

0:36:13.160 --> 0:36:16.320
<v Speaker 2>friend of the pod Jenny McCarthy. Now, one of the

0:36:16.360 --> 0:36:18.759
<v Speaker 2>most frustrating things about Oprah in this time period after

0:36:18.760 --> 0:36:21.720
<v Speaker 2>her pivot away from trash TV is in the mid nineties,

0:36:22.200 --> 0:36:24.440
<v Speaker 2>is that in the middle of all of this new

0:36:24.480 --> 0:36:27.080
<v Speaker 2>age WU that she is putting out and clotting our

0:36:27.160 --> 0:36:29.600
<v Speaker 2>national arteries with which leads to the fatal stroke we're

0:36:29.600 --> 0:36:31.200
<v Speaker 2>going to spend the rest of our lives living in.

0:36:32.160 --> 0:36:36.120
<v Speaker 2>She is also like she's right about some important things,

0:36:36.160 --> 0:36:39.120
<v Speaker 2>but even when she's right about them, the kind of

0:36:39.160 --> 0:36:41.920
<v Speaker 2>the lack of rigor to the way she talks about

0:36:41.960 --> 0:36:44.839
<v Speaker 2>stuff means that she winds up wrong about them. And

0:36:45.239 --> 0:36:46.719
<v Speaker 2>to make that makes sense, I'm going to talk about

0:36:46.719 --> 0:36:48.880
<v Speaker 2>Oprah's war with the beef industry because this is a

0:36:48.960 --> 0:36:53.600
<v Speaker 2>key moment in oprah history. In April of nineteen ninety six,

0:36:53.719 --> 0:36:55.960
<v Speaker 2>Oprah dedicated a segment of her show to mad cow

0:36:56.000 --> 0:36:58.840
<v Speaker 2>disease and brought on an animal rights activist in Vegetarian

0:36:58.920 --> 0:37:01.760
<v Speaker 2>named Howard Lyman. The UK had just had a major

0:37:01.800 --> 0:37:04.440
<v Speaker 2>mad cow outbreak and had to cold vast numbers of animals,

0:37:04.520 --> 0:37:06.920
<v Speaker 2>and Lyman predicted that the same thing would soon befall

0:37:07.000 --> 0:37:09.680
<v Speaker 2>the US beef supply. He talked about what happens when

0:37:09.760 --> 0:37:11.759
<v Speaker 2>humans catch mad cow from tat to meat and the

0:37:11.760 --> 0:37:15.760
<v Speaker 2>horrific deaths that follow. Oprah declared the conversation quote stopped

0:37:15.800 --> 0:37:18.920
<v Speaker 2>me cold from eating another burger. Now, this has a

0:37:18.960 --> 0:37:21.799
<v Speaker 2>massive impact on the beef industry, right, and they're going

0:37:21.840 --> 0:37:24.400
<v Speaker 2>to sue her over this because there's some evidence that

0:37:24.480 --> 0:37:27.440
<v Speaker 2>like millions of dollars in beef sales are like the

0:37:27.440 --> 0:37:30.480
<v Speaker 2>price of the value of beef drops significantly because of

0:37:30.520 --> 0:37:34.759
<v Speaker 2>Oprah talking about mad cow this way and the broader thing,

0:37:34.760 --> 0:37:37.759
<v Speaker 2>which is that like our meat, Like, there's a lot

0:37:37.800 --> 0:37:40.759
<v Speaker 2>of a lot of the stuff that's gross and inhumane

0:37:40.920 --> 0:37:44.080
<v Speaker 2>and climactically awful about our addiction to beef and the

0:37:44.080 --> 0:37:47.640
<v Speaker 2>way this industry functions, and it deserves criticism. The problem

0:37:47.760 --> 0:37:51.480
<v Speaker 2>is that the specific criticism Oprah is publishing and focusing

0:37:51.520 --> 0:37:54.719
<v Speaker 2>on his mad cow disease and the US beef industry

0:37:54.760 --> 0:37:58.680
<v Speaker 2>really doesn't deserve that. Right. Lyman's prediction that like, we're

0:37:58.719 --> 0:38:01.880
<v Speaker 2>going to have a UK style mad cow outbreak in

0:38:01.920 --> 0:38:05.080
<v Speaker 2>the US hasn't come to pass, and in fact, in

0:38:05.120 --> 0:38:08.000
<v Speaker 2>the decades since he said this, the US has had

0:38:08.040 --> 0:38:10.480
<v Speaker 2>six confirmed cases of mad cow disease, the first in

0:38:10.520 --> 0:38:12.200
<v Speaker 2>two thousand and three and the most recent in twenty

0:38:12.200 --> 0:38:15.240
<v Speaker 2>twenty three, and these were all isolated and caught fairly quickly.

0:38:15.560 --> 0:38:17.360
<v Speaker 2>Preventing the spread of mad cow with something in the

0:38:17.480 --> 0:38:21.680
<v Speaker 2>US beef industry has proved very good at particularly considering

0:38:21.680 --> 0:38:24.319
<v Speaker 2>the fact that the UK and France, which normally have

0:38:24.400 --> 0:38:27.480
<v Speaker 2>much more effective regulatory states, have had much larger problems

0:38:27.520 --> 0:38:31.239
<v Speaker 2>with this. Now, that doesn't mean again that we're immune from,

0:38:31.320 --> 0:38:34.560
<v Speaker 2>for example, even other prion diseases. Right. The spread of

0:38:34.600 --> 0:38:37.520
<v Speaker 2>preon diseases due to farmed meat is a massively important

0:38:37.560 --> 0:38:41.600
<v Speaker 2>story in the US, one with some potentially apocalyptic undertones. Right.

0:38:41.920 --> 0:38:44.680
<v Speaker 2>For example, we have this massive problem in a lot

0:38:44.760 --> 0:38:47.560
<v Speaker 2>of the like the Great Lakes region in the East Coast,

0:38:47.600 --> 0:38:51.120
<v Speaker 2>with chronic wasting disease, which is basically mad cow for deer,

0:38:51.360 --> 0:38:53.560
<v Speaker 2>which number one gets a number of hunters killed, but

0:38:53.640 --> 0:38:57.920
<v Speaker 2>also deer spread these like poisoned prions around in the

0:38:58.000 --> 0:39:00.560
<v Speaker 2>soil and they don't really die, and there's like a

0:39:00.560 --> 0:39:03.640
<v Speaker 2>lot of very worrying problems due to this, and it

0:39:03.680 --> 0:39:07.000
<v Speaker 2>all got started almost certainly because people were trying to

0:39:07.280 --> 0:39:11.080
<v Speaker 2>farm venison, and you know, these all of these diseases

0:39:11.120 --> 0:39:12.920
<v Speaker 2>result when you've got like we've got a bunch of

0:39:13.000 --> 0:39:15.560
<v Speaker 2>animals we're trying to farm at scale, and their feed

0:39:15.680 --> 0:39:18.439
<v Speaker 2>has pieces of their own spinal cords in it, right

0:39:18.480 --> 0:39:21.040
<v Speaker 2>of like of their fellow animals, right like that. That's

0:39:21.680 --> 0:39:25.120
<v Speaker 2>the I'm simplifying a lot of stuff. But like what

0:39:25.160 --> 0:39:27.719
<v Speaker 2>I'm saying is meat as an industry has a lot

0:39:27.719 --> 0:39:32.239
<v Speaker 2>of horrible problems that have some potentially near apocalyptic outcomes

0:39:32.280 --> 0:39:36.279
<v Speaker 2>for our society. But the specific thing Oprah has is

0:39:36.400 --> 0:39:40.000
<v Speaker 2>really going after in this episode isn't a big problem

0:39:40.040 --> 0:39:43.480
<v Speaker 2>for the beef industry, and as a result, they're going

0:39:43.520 --> 0:39:47.719
<v Speaker 2>to sue her. Right, So, Texas is one of a

0:39:47.760 --> 0:39:50.560
<v Speaker 2>dozen states with what's called a veggie libel law, which

0:39:50.600 --> 0:39:52.520
<v Speaker 2>is a law that makes a person liable if they

0:39:52.520 --> 0:39:56.680
<v Speaker 2>make liberalist statements about food safety. Representatives of the cattle

0:39:56.680 --> 0:40:00.160
<v Speaker 2>industry complained to Texas Agricultural Commissioner Rick Perry, who a

0:40:00.239 --> 0:40:03.759
<v Speaker 2>letter to the state attorney general complaining the economic livelihood

0:40:03.760 --> 0:40:05.240
<v Speaker 2>of our beef producers is at stake.

0:40:05.600 --> 0:40:05.719
<v Speaker 6>Now.

0:40:05.760 --> 0:40:08.160
<v Speaker 2>The reality of the situation is that again Oprah has

0:40:08.239 --> 0:40:11.080
<v Speaker 2>exaggerated the risk of mad cow disease in the US,

0:40:11.560 --> 0:40:13.520
<v Speaker 2>but not in a way that a reasonable person would

0:40:13.560 --> 0:40:15.799
<v Speaker 2>call libelis I've just pointed out that she was kind

0:40:15.800 --> 0:40:18.280
<v Speaker 2>of wrong for this to be the focus when talking

0:40:18.280 --> 0:40:21.680
<v Speaker 2>about bad aspects of the beef industry. But like when

0:40:21.719 --> 0:40:24.719
<v Speaker 2>you're seeing mad cowgo crazy in the UK, being like,

0:40:25.040 --> 0:40:29.600
<v Speaker 2>it's probably a problem, that's not libel, right, that's speculative

0:40:29.719 --> 0:40:32.240
<v Speaker 2>in a way, that's inaccurate, but it's not really libel.

0:40:32.600 --> 0:40:36.080
<v Speaker 2>The beef magnates disagreed, and they can considered Oprah enemy

0:40:36.200 --> 0:40:38.399
<v Speaker 2>number one and saw the overall case as a way

0:40:38.440 --> 0:40:41.320
<v Speaker 2>to stop anyone from talking badly about health and safety

0:40:41.360 --> 0:40:45.000
<v Speaker 2>practices within the beef industry. Oprah, for her part, and

0:40:45.000 --> 0:40:46.280
<v Speaker 2>this is where I give her a lot of credit,

0:40:46.600 --> 0:40:49.719
<v Speaker 2>refuses to budge or settle, and so she is like,

0:40:49.840 --> 0:40:51.799
<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to settle this case. I'm not going

0:40:51.800 --> 0:40:55.680
<v Speaker 2>to retract or apologize. Let's go to court, motherfuckers. And

0:40:55.760 --> 0:41:00.400
<v Speaker 2>so this turns into a showdown in fucking Amarilla, Texas

0:41:01.000 --> 0:41:04.120
<v Speaker 2>or shit is it? Abilene, I wrote Amarilla, but I

0:41:04.160 --> 0:41:06.799
<v Speaker 2>think it might be Abilene. Look it up, folks. Maybe

0:41:06.840 --> 0:41:09.000
<v Speaker 2>I got that one wrong. I'll say both. Fuck it.

0:41:10.040 --> 0:41:12.479
<v Speaker 2>So she has to go to this small town that's

0:41:12.520 --> 0:41:16.440
<v Speaker 2>like a massive beef center in Texas, right, and a

0:41:16.480 --> 0:41:18.640
<v Speaker 2>normal person would have been like, well, all right, I've

0:41:18.640 --> 0:41:20.399
<v Speaker 2>got to be in court for several weeks. I guess

0:41:20.440 --> 0:41:23.640
<v Speaker 2>we'll put the show on hiatus. Right. Obviously, I'm not

0:41:23.680 --> 0:41:26.600
<v Speaker 2>gonna fly my entire crew down to this show, to

0:41:26.719 --> 0:41:29.440
<v Speaker 2>this town in Texas and just film the opra runfree

0:41:29.440 --> 0:41:33.279
<v Speaker 2>show from there, which is exactly what she does. So

0:41:34.160 --> 0:41:36.440
<v Speaker 2>here's the Texas Tribune. Rather than putting your show on

0:41:36.520 --> 0:41:38.080
<v Speaker 2>hiatus for a week, she brought it with her and

0:41:38.120 --> 0:41:40.080
<v Speaker 2>framed parts of it as an homage to the city

0:41:40.120 --> 0:41:43.520
<v Speaker 2>and state. She suddenly found herself in Winfrey Donda cowboy

0:41:43.560 --> 0:41:46.800
<v Speaker 2>hat and drew cheers by occasionally mimicking a Texas accent.

0:41:47.000 --> 0:41:50.080
<v Speaker 2>Texas born act actor Patrick Swayze came on and taught

0:41:50.080 --> 0:41:52.400
<v Speaker 2>her how to two step. So you're on trial by

0:41:52.480 --> 0:41:54.600
<v Speaker 2>day and you're doing the show by night. Whenfrey recalled

0:41:54.640 --> 0:41:57.440
<v Speaker 2>in twenty twelve, it was stressful. It was challenging to

0:41:57.440 --> 0:41:59.120
<v Speaker 2>be on trial. May I just say it's one of

0:41:59.120 --> 0:42:02.319
<v Speaker 2>the worst experience says of anybody's life. A gag order

0:42:02.320 --> 0:42:04.719
<v Speaker 2>prevented Winfrey from talking about the case on her show,

0:42:04.760 --> 0:42:07.560
<v Speaker 2>which she turned into a running joke. We're down here

0:42:07.600 --> 0:42:10.800
<v Speaker 2>in Amarilla, y'all know why, she said during one segment,

0:42:10.920 --> 0:42:14.040
<v Speaker 2>drawing laughs from the audience. Large crowd showed up both

0:42:14.040 --> 0:42:16.200
<v Speaker 2>for winfrey show and outside the courtroom to catch a

0:42:16.200 --> 0:42:20.040
<v Speaker 2>glimpse of her Amilla Loves Oprah t shirts. She didn't

0:42:20.200 --> 0:42:22.239
<v Speaker 2>testify until the latter part of the case, but by

0:42:22.280 --> 0:42:24.640
<v Speaker 2>the time she got on the stand, the town loved her.

0:42:24.719 --> 0:42:28.120
<v Speaker 2>Babcock said, and again, everyone on this jury has ties

0:42:28.160 --> 0:42:32.760
<v Speaker 2>to the beef industry, and they vote unanimously to clear Oprah.

0:42:32.800 --> 0:42:35.160
<v Speaker 2>That's how much juice this lady has.

0:42:36.480 --> 0:42:38.680
<v Speaker 5>I know we're here to talk about her as a bastard,

0:42:38.680 --> 0:42:39.759
<v Speaker 5>but you gotta love that.

0:42:39.920 --> 0:42:42.600
<v Speaker 4>Like that is cool. That's pretty cool shit.

0:42:43.440 --> 0:42:46.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I wish she had gone to war over a

0:42:46.560 --> 0:42:50.600
<v Speaker 2>better criticism of the beef industry, but that is pretty cool.

0:42:51.040 --> 0:42:51.279
<v Speaker 8>You know.

0:42:52.160 --> 0:42:55.080
<v Speaker 2>You have to there's a lesson in there in terms

0:42:55.120 --> 0:42:57.839
<v Speaker 2>of like how you deal with these like corporations trying

0:42:57.840 --> 0:43:00.960
<v Speaker 2>to stifle speech, which was like, all right, motherfucker, like,

0:43:01.440 --> 0:43:03.800
<v Speaker 2>let's lean into it. I will get this whole town

0:43:03.920 --> 0:43:04.960
<v Speaker 2>on my side.

0:43:05.440 --> 0:43:07.920
<v Speaker 5>She's out of curiosity, though, did any of the people

0:43:07.960 --> 0:43:11.560
<v Speaker 5>that she called like satanist, baby rapist, did they ever

0:43:11.640 --> 0:43:11.960
<v Speaker 5>see her?

0:43:12.000 --> 0:43:12.880
<v Speaker 4>Does that of curiosity?

0:43:12.960 --> 0:43:13.600
<v Speaker 5>No? No, no, no no.

0:43:14.719 --> 0:43:16.759
<v Speaker 2>They don't have beef industry money for one thing. They're

0:43:16.800 --> 0:43:22.120
<v Speaker 2>all bankrupted fighting the satan lawsuits. Bridges like these people

0:43:22.120 --> 0:43:30.480
<v Speaker 2>owned a daycare. So Oprah Declaire's victory. Beef industry representatives

0:43:30.480 --> 0:43:32.640
<v Speaker 2>to Claire Victory too, stating that the cost of the

0:43:32.680 --> 0:43:35.480
<v Speaker 2>case would make other media figures more careful about spreading

0:43:35.520 --> 0:43:39.040
<v Speaker 2>this information. Americans largely went back to ignoring the harms

0:43:39.040 --> 0:43:41.040
<v Speaker 2>of our addiction to cheap red meat, and the only

0:43:41.120 --> 0:43:43.520
<v Speaker 2>real long term consequence to all this was that Oprah

0:43:43.560 --> 0:43:47.279
<v Speaker 2>befriended a psychologist that she'd hired on as a jury consultant,

0:43:47.840 --> 0:43:54.360
<v Speaker 2>Doctor Phil McGraw. Ooo again, folks, for an episode on

0:43:54.440 --> 0:43:56.520
<v Speaker 2>bast Dream. We're not going to talk about doctor Phil

0:43:56.600 --> 0:43:59.200
<v Speaker 2>or doctor osin these episodes because we've done two parters

0:43:59.239 --> 0:44:01.480
<v Speaker 2>on both of them. Check those out if you want

0:44:01.480 --> 0:44:05.720
<v Speaker 2>to know why those guys suck. But this ends badly

0:44:05.880 --> 0:44:10.240
<v Speaker 2>is what I'll say, you know what else ends badly, Sophie,

0:44:11.640 --> 0:44:15.840
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, your life. If you don't buy the

0:44:15.880 --> 0:44:19.040
<v Speaker 2>products and services that are advertised on this podcast. You know,

0:44:19.160 --> 0:44:21.400
<v Speaker 2>it's like a chain letter, right, If you buy the

0:44:21.440 --> 0:44:24.200
<v Speaker 2>first thing that comes on, you'll have a happy life.

0:44:24.440 --> 0:44:26.640
<v Speaker 2>You know, when you die, your whole family will be

0:44:26.680 --> 0:44:29.120
<v Speaker 2>around you. There will be no pain. You'll hear you'll

0:44:29.160 --> 0:44:32.319
<v Speaker 2>hear the trumpet of Saint Peter. Is it he him?

0:44:32.360 --> 0:44:35.319
<v Speaker 2>Then as a trumpet? You'll hear some fucking Trumpet'll be good,

0:44:35.320 --> 0:44:43.640
<v Speaker 2>You'll get to have it. It'll be great, and we're back.

0:44:43.800 --> 0:44:46.239
<v Speaker 1>It's St. Gabriel and is.

0:44:46.280 --> 0:44:47.120
<v Speaker 2>It Saint Gabriel?

0:44:50.480 --> 0:44:51.160
<v Speaker 4>Cecilia?

0:44:51.680 --> 0:44:53.960
<v Speaker 2>A lot of them got trumpets? How am I supposed to?

0:44:54.040 --> 0:45:00.279
<v Speaker 4>It's like a SKA band up there, you know, lots

0:45:00.280 --> 0:45:00.760
<v Speaker 4>of true.

0:45:00.640 --> 0:45:05.000
<v Speaker 2>God's sacred genre. Okay. The fact that Oprah's show was

0:45:05.040 --> 0:45:08.560
<v Speaker 2>now a mix of spiritual gurus and crusades against various

0:45:08.640 --> 0:45:12.080
<v Speaker 2>causes celeb did not mean that Oprah completely hit excised

0:45:12.120 --> 0:45:14.960
<v Speaker 2>the smut. Despite her claim to have left trash TV behind,

0:45:15.040 --> 0:45:18.279
<v Speaker 2>she knew that any topic involving teen pregnancy, teen drug use,

0:45:18.360 --> 0:45:22.200
<v Speaker 2>child abduction, et cetera got views her audience of largely

0:45:22.239 --> 0:45:24.799
<v Speaker 2>middle class moms tuned in when Oprah tur told them

0:45:24.840 --> 0:45:28.160
<v Speaker 2>their kids were in danger. The clearest example of this

0:45:28.480 --> 0:45:31.239
<v Speaker 2>comes from two thousand and three, when Oprah Winfrey introduced

0:45:31.239 --> 0:45:34.239
<v Speaker 2>the concept of Bridget so happy to be talking about

0:45:34.280 --> 0:45:36.120
<v Speaker 2>this rainbow parties?

0:45:37.680 --> 0:45:38.040
<v Speaker 3>Got it?

0:45:38.320 --> 0:45:39.600
<v Speaker 4>You get a rainbow party?

0:45:39.680 --> 0:45:40.120
<v Speaker 2>You get it?

0:45:40.120 --> 0:45:42.200
<v Speaker 4>Well, I shouldn't phrase it that way.

0:45:42.239 --> 0:45:45.360
<v Speaker 5>Young Bridget fucking wishes no one.

0:45:45.200 --> 0:45:48.880
<v Speaker 2>Gets a rainbow party. That's actually the reality of the situation.

0:45:49.640 --> 0:45:52.080
<v Speaker 2>I am sure we've got our gen z listeners and

0:45:52.160 --> 0:45:54.759
<v Speaker 2>our old people listeners. Those are the two other kinds

0:45:54.760 --> 0:45:58.359
<v Speaker 2>of people behind normal people. US millennials are all like,

0:45:58.440 --> 0:46:01.040
<v Speaker 2>the fuck are they talking about? Rainbow party? Is this

0:46:01.080 --> 0:46:06.920
<v Speaker 2>somebody like LGBT thing? No, it's not. So this was

0:46:07.000 --> 0:46:09.680
<v Speaker 2>yet another moral panic, and it's the first moral panic

0:46:09.719 --> 0:46:12.239
<v Speaker 2>that we're talking about in the series that I was

0:46:12.320 --> 0:46:14.440
<v Speaker 2>around four as a perfectly I'm a should be the

0:46:14.480 --> 0:46:16.840
<v Speaker 2>same mistrue of you like this was a moral panic

0:46:16.960 --> 0:46:21.319
<v Speaker 2>about my generation, my peers, and I that I was

0:46:21.320 --> 0:46:23.440
<v Speaker 2>old enough to be like, what the fuck are you

0:46:23.480 --> 0:46:28.719
<v Speaker 2>talking about? So in order to introduce this concept, this

0:46:29.760 --> 0:46:31.759
<v Speaker 2>comes up on The Oprah Winfrey Show for the first

0:46:31.760 --> 0:46:35.239
<v Speaker 2>time during a discussion between Oprah, Oprah and Michelle Burford.

0:46:35.960 --> 0:46:39.120
<v Speaker 2>Burford is a journalist at OH Magazine. Oprah had launched

0:46:39.160 --> 0:46:41.719
<v Speaker 2>a magazine like ninety nine or something like, after her

0:46:41.760 --> 0:46:45.000
<v Speaker 2>show has made its big pivot. They launched this magazine,

0:46:45.000 --> 0:46:47.160
<v Speaker 2>which is the number one women's magazine basically for the

0:46:47.160 --> 0:46:49.720
<v Speaker 2>whole time that it's in publication. They don't stop publishing

0:46:50.320 --> 0:46:54.239
<v Speaker 2>till twenty twenty. And Burford has just finished some hard

0:46:54.320 --> 0:46:57.680
<v Speaker 2>hitting research on the millennials, you know, our generation, and

0:46:57.719 --> 0:47:01.600
<v Speaker 2>she's reading oprah new slang term for sex and that

0:47:01.760 --> 0:47:04.000
<v Speaker 2>our generation has cooked up. And again this is two

0:47:04.040 --> 0:47:07.040
<v Speaker 2>thousand and three, so everybody prepared to take some notes.

0:47:07.160 --> 0:47:10.439
<v Speaker 1>Also, just the selection for more videos.

0:47:09.920 --> 0:47:13.320
<v Speaker 2>It's so fascinating stuff, fascinating stuff.

0:47:13.520 --> 0:47:15.920
<v Speaker 1>What is happening to Elmo?

0:47:16.680 --> 0:47:17.359
<v Speaker 5>Oh my god?

0:47:18.120 --> 0:47:18.319
<v Speaker 6>Yeah?

0:47:18.360 --> 0:47:20.520
<v Speaker 2>The Elmo thing is I think that's from the New

0:47:20.600 --> 0:47:24.800
<v Speaker 2>Dune show. And that's clearly someone playing Matt Gates on SNL.

0:47:25.640 --> 0:47:27.719
<v Speaker 2>Just because of how uncomfortable that woman looks, I can

0:47:27.719 --> 0:47:30.400
<v Speaker 2>tell it's supposed to be Matt Gates anyway.

0:47:31.800 --> 0:47:34.200
<v Speaker 4>Okay, so I definitely what is a salad.

0:47:34.200 --> 0:47:36.640
<v Speaker 6>Top salad is get ready hold on to your underwear

0:47:36.640 --> 0:47:40.880
<v Speaker 6>for this one. Oral anal sex. So oral sex to

0:47:41.000 --> 0:47:43.239
<v Speaker 6>the anus is what toss Galad is.

0:47:43.280 --> 0:47:49.200
<v Speaker 4>My mom is an oral sex party.

0:47:49.320 --> 0:47:52.640
<v Speaker 6>It's a gathering where oral sex is performed and rainbow

0:47:52.680 --> 0:47:55.399
<v Speaker 6>comes from all of the girls put on lipstick and

0:47:55.480 --> 0:47:58.360
<v Speaker 6>each one puts her mouth around the penis of the

0:47:58.400 --> 0:47:59.960
<v Speaker 6>gentleman or gentlemen.

0:48:00.040 --> 0:48:02.320
<v Speaker 4>Who are there to receive favors.

0:48:02.280 --> 0:48:06.200
<v Speaker 6>And another horrified MoMA, hence the term rainbow.

0:48:08.239 --> 0:48:12.480
<v Speaker 4>Oh fuck. I remember this like it was yesterday.

0:48:12.680 --> 0:48:15.319
<v Speaker 5>When I said that when my mom would sit me

0:48:15.360 --> 0:48:17.480
<v Speaker 5>down after school and like it was time for us

0:48:17.520 --> 0:48:18.719
<v Speaker 5>to have like a serious.

0:48:18.400 --> 0:48:19.120
<v Speaker 4>Talk about something.

0:48:19.160 --> 0:48:21.279
<v Speaker 5>I always knew it had been on Oprah, And I

0:48:21.320 --> 0:48:25.040
<v Speaker 5>remember very clearly this episode because, as I said, I

0:48:25.040 --> 0:48:26.800
<v Speaker 5>went to Catholic school. I went to all girl school.

0:48:26.840 --> 0:48:29.160
<v Speaker 5>I was the biggest nerd in the world. I was

0:48:29.200 --> 0:48:32.360
<v Speaker 5>not having sex with anybody. But my mom is sitting

0:48:32.400 --> 0:48:35.279
<v Speaker 5>me down and being like, is this a thing that's

0:48:35.320 --> 0:48:36.480
<v Speaker 5>happening at school?

0:48:36.719 --> 0:48:40.239
<v Speaker 4>I was like the way the to the fiction.

0:48:40.239 --> 0:48:43.760
<v Speaker 5>That like young people were doing things like rainbow parties.

0:48:44.160 --> 0:48:46.160
<v Speaker 4>It just yeah, it just really.

0:48:45.960 --> 0:48:48.120
<v Speaker 5>Is burned in my mind that like Oprah had really

0:48:48.239 --> 0:48:50.319
<v Speaker 5>put a fantasy world in the head of people like

0:48:50.360 --> 0:48:50.759
<v Speaker 5>my mom.

0:48:51.160 --> 0:48:55.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Yeah, it's such a fucking absolute. It's such a

0:48:55.880 --> 0:49:00.600
<v Speaker 2>fucking absolute like fantasy, because like I remember seeing this

0:49:00.640 --> 0:49:03.560
<v Speaker 2>as like a fifteen year old and going, no, we're not,

0:49:04.080 --> 0:49:08.360
<v Speaker 2>like I'm not look fifteen year old Robert not exactly

0:49:08.360 --> 0:49:10.839
<v Speaker 2>doing a lot of sex parties. But also I knew

0:49:10.920 --> 0:49:13.480
<v Speaker 2>enough about my generation to that like, neither were basically

0:49:13.480 --> 0:49:15.440
<v Speaker 2>anyone else at my school. Right, there were some kids

0:49:15.440 --> 0:49:18.160
<v Speaker 2>having sex, but there weren't rainbow parties.

0:49:18.400 --> 0:49:21.279
<v Speaker 5>Like people were like dry humping behind the wal mart

0:49:21.520 --> 0:49:21.879
<v Speaker 5>and like.

0:49:21.920 --> 0:49:24.759
<v Speaker 4>That might hit like it wasn't like sex parties.

0:49:25.200 --> 0:49:28.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, everybody's got a different lipstick, and you compare the

0:49:28.680 --> 0:49:32.760
<v Speaker 2>rainbows on you dick, what like where is it happening?

0:49:33.280 --> 0:49:35.360
<v Speaker 4>Shades many questions.

0:49:35.520 --> 0:49:38.279
<v Speaker 8>My mom asked me about this too. Yeah that was

0:49:38.280 --> 0:49:38.799
<v Speaker 8>a weird thing.

0:49:38.800 --> 0:49:40.919
<v Speaker 1>And I went and I was like, I was like, mom,

0:49:41.520 --> 0:49:42.720
<v Speaker 1>look at me, look.

0:49:42.520 --> 0:49:47.360
<v Speaker 4>At these things. I have it down to me.

0:49:47.760 --> 0:49:50.319
<v Speaker 2>You should always think this way whenever there's like a

0:49:50.560 --> 0:49:53.560
<v Speaker 2>this is the new dangerous sex thing the kids are doing.

0:49:54.120 --> 0:49:57.160
<v Speaker 2>Does it sound like something you and your peers might

0:49:57.160 --> 0:49:59.719
<v Speaker 2>have done as fifteen year olds or does it sound

0:49:59.760 --> 0:50:02.879
<v Speaker 2>like something an adult pervert invented? Because it made them

0:50:02.960 --> 0:50:04.160
<v Speaker 2>Because they're sick, right.

0:50:04.239 --> 0:50:07.719
<v Speaker 3>I was going to say, horror invented this, truly needs

0:50:07.719 --> 0:50:08.440
<v Speaker 3>to go to jail.

0:50:11.239 --> 0:50:14.960
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I was like, this is marketing child pornography. That's

0:50:14.960 --> 0:50:15.480
<v Speaker 2>what you don't.

0:50:15.480 --> 0:50:19.239
<v Speaker 8>Well, they did look forward to this on that teen

0:50:19.320 --> 0:50:21.800
<v Speaker 8>show to Grass even instead of it on the dicks.

0:50:21.840 --> 0:50:25.160
<v Speaker 8>It was like rainbow bracelets. My mom asked me about

0:50:25.200 --> 0:50:25.760
<v Speaker 8>that also.

0:50:26.440 --> 0:50:27.239
<v Speaker 4>That was another thing.

0:50:27.280 --> 0:50:28.799
<v Speaker 5>I don't think it was on Oprah, But if you

0:50:28.880 --> 0:50:31.520
<v Speaker 5>wore like those jelly bracelets, it was, oh, if you

0:50:31.520 --> 0:50:38.360
<v Speaker 5>wear a brown one, Yeah, it was that nobody.

0:50:38.719 --> 0:50:40.960
<v Speaker 2>But Sophie, now that you brought up to Grassy, I

0:50:40.960 --> 0:50:44.200
<v Speaker 2>think I'm through the looking glass here because look, clearly

0:50:44.600 --> 0:50:46.600
<v Speaker 2>this isn't a real thing. It was invented by a

0:50:46.640 --> 0:50:51.319
<v Speaker 2>pedophile who was on to Grassy, famous pedophile Drake. Oh,

0:50:52.239 --> 0:50:54.960
<v Speaker 2>we're through the looking glass.

0:50:53.760 --> 0:51:00.920
<v Speaker 8>Papers locked down. That man is suing people, come on,

0:51:02.440 --> 0:51:05.160
<v Speaker 8>he'sing for defamation for being called a pedophile.

0:51:05.320 --> 0:51:08.440
<v Speaker 2>But Sir, I feel like the best case scenario here

0:51:08.480 --> 0:51:10.560
<v Speaker 2>is that Kendrick and I become good friends and no

0:51:10.600 --> 0:51:13.400
<v Speaker 2>one ever tells him that I mistook him from Maclamore once.

0:51:13.560 --> 0:51:14.239
<v Speaker 4>Robert I.

0:51:15.680 --> 0:51:19.040
<v Speaker 2>Robert I swore I don't know who people are like,

0:51:19.120 --> 0:51:21.760
<v Speaker 2>not by looks or songs. I just thought people.

0:51:22.239 --> 0:51:25.200
<v Speaker 4>I don't know where people are. Take that secret to Margaret.

0:51:27.920 --> 0:51:30.560
<v Speaker 4>It's the most angry I've ever been at.

0:51:30.920 --> 0:51:34.160
<v Speaker 2>The Internet's going to light on. I want to get

0:51:34.160 --> 0:51:35.720
<v Speaker 2>off Scott free now.

0:51:36.080 --> 0:51:38.399
<v Speaker 1>And then we all made a pack in my car.

0:51:38.520 --> 0:51:40.520
<v Speaker 2>But we would never repeat this because it.

0:51:40.520 --> 0:51:41.919
<v Speaker 4>Was too honest to man.

0:51:42.040 --> 0:51:44.920
<v Speaker 2>Sophie, I can't. I'm like George Washington, this is my

0:51:45.080 --> 0:51:48.160
<v Speaker 2>cherry Tree moment. I cannot tell a lie. I don't

0:51:48.239 --> 0:51:49.319
<v Speaker 2>know who people are.

0:51:50.239 --> 0:51:53.160
<v Speaker 4>Yes, but Jesus Robert.

0:51:54.239 --> 0:51:56.719
<v Speaker 2>It's okay. I listened to a Kendrick Lamar song after that.

0:51:57.440 --> 0:51:59.200
<v Speaker 4>I think you were in my car.

0:51:59.400 --> 0:52:03.200
<v Speaker 2>I was pretty pretty good. Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry. Macklamore's not.

0:52:03.400 --> 0:52:08.839
<v Speaker 2>I made a horrible mistake. Forgive me, don't forgive Drake. Look,

0:52:08.880 --> 0:52:11.520
<v Speaker 2>I'm trying to deflect here, right, I'm doing the Trump thing,

0:52:11.640 --> 0:52:15.239
<v Speaker 2>you know, like, ignore my sins, focus on Drake and

0:52:15.280 --> 0:52:17.680
<v Speaker 2>the Rainbow parties. Let's blame him for that.

0:52:17.760 --> 0:52:18.960
<v Speaker 8>The disappointments back.

0:52:19.719 --> 0:52:24.640
<v Speaker 2>I don't know who people are. Look, it's gonna be

0:52:24.640 --> 0:52:26.960
<v Speaker 2>hard to get back on track after this. Later in

0:52:27.000 --> 0:52:30.480
<v Speaker 2>that interview, Oprah asks Burford if Rainbow parties are common,

0:52:30.560 --> 0:52:33.400
<v Speaker 2>and Maria replied, among the fifty girls I talked to,

0:52:33.880 --> 0:52:36.759
<v Speaker 2>this was pervasive. And here's a quick tip on like

0:52:36.840 --> 0:52:39.680
<v Speaker 2>knowing if a journalist is not a good journalist. A

0:52:39.680 --> 0:52:43.279
<v Speaker 2>good journalist if they had talked to fifty girls would

0:52:43.360 --> 0:52:47.359
<v Speaker 2>say this number of them said that they had attended

0:52:47.640 --> 0:52:50.680
<v Speaker 2>a rainbow party, versus this number of them said they

0:52:50.719 --> 0:52:55.000
<v Speaker 2>had heard of a rainbow party. That starts to give

0:52:55.040 --> 0:52:58.560
<v Speaker 2>you some useful data as to like, oh, actually thirty

0:52:58.560 --> 0:53:01.040
<v Speaker 2>of them said they'd heard of this. None of them

0:53:01.080 --> 0:53:04.279
<v Speaker 2>have been to one. Maybe they're not real.

0:53:05.840 --> 0:53:07.040
<v Speaker 3>Like that.

0:53:07.040 --> 0:53:09.480
<v Speaker 2>That would be journalism, right, that's the start of it,

0:53:09.520 --> 0:53:11.600
<v Speaker 2>at least you know. Burford says of the fifty girls

0:53:11.640 --> 0:53:15.440
<v Speaker 2>I talked to, quote unquote, this was pervasive. Now I'll

0:53:15.480 --> 0:53:18.120
<v Speaker 2>say this right now. Burford either made all that shit

0:53:18.200 --> 0:53:20.040
<v Speaker 2>up because she knew Oprah would love it, or some

0:53:20.080 --> 0:53:22.799
<v Speaker 2>teenage girls were paying a prank on her. A couple

0:53:22.880 --> 0:53:26.560
<v Speaker 2>of researchers, Joel Best and Kathleen Boggle, actually looked into

0:53:26.560 --> 0:53:29.040
<v Speaker 2>where this rumor started, and they traced it to a

0:53:29.080 --> 0:53:32.840
<v Speaker 2>book called Epidemic How Teen Sex Is Killing Our Kids

0:53:32.920 --> 0:53:35.120
<v Speaker 2>by Meg Meeker. And if you want to know how hack.

0:53:35.160 --> 0:53:38.600
<v Speaker 2>You're at this book? Was are there still kids? Sylvie

0:53:40.480 --> 0:53:42.840
<v Speaker 2>checks note, Let's let's do a quick fact check. Okay,

0:53:42.880 --> 0:53:45.839
<v Speaker 2>it didn't. We're good. Good news, everybody, teen sex didn't

0:53:45.880 --> 0:53:46.520
<v Speaker 2>kill all the kids.

0:53:47.200 --> 0:53:49.440
<v Speaker 3>Hey, listen, At least we do have a name for

0:53:49.520 --> 0:53:58.000
<v Speaker 3>the straight up fucking pedophile enabler at minimum.

0:53:55.920 --> 0:53:59.200
<v Speaker 2>Meg Meeker. Oh, she's great. She is a right wing

0:53:59.239 --> 0:54:01.759
<v Speaker 2>pediatrician who has spent the last twenty years profiting off

0:54:01.800 --> 0:54:04.279
<v Speaker 2>of convincing parents that their kids are fucking each other

0:54:04.320 --> 0:54:06.920
<v Speaker 2>to death. She has never once been correct, but she

0:54:07.040 --> 0:54:11.480
<v Speaker 2>has the ear of incoming President Donald Trump. She is awesome.

0:54:12.280 --> 0:54:14.759
<v Speaker 2>Back in two thousand and three, Oprah laundered her conservative

0:54:14.800 --> 0:54:18.839
<v Speaker 2>Christian propaganda because hey, sex sells best. End Boggle, who

0:54:18.840 --> 0:54:21.920
<v Speaker 2>wrote a book called Kids Gone Wild. But despite that title,

0:54:21.920 --> 0:54:23.799
<v Speaker 2>the book is about how all this stuff is bullshit, right.

0:54:23.840 --> 0:54:26.720
<v Speaker 2>It's about all these bullshit media myths about how bad

0:54:26.840 --> 0:54:30.719
<v Speaker 2>kids are, right, and it busts a bunch of pervasive

0:54:30.760 --> 0:54:34.640
<v Speaker 2>myths about teenagers and their wild, elaborate sex based parties.

0:54:35.320 --> 0:54:39.200
<v Speaker 2>Both Boggle and Best clearly blame Oprah for launching the

0:54:39.320 --> 0:54:43.400
<v Speaker 2>rainbow parties panic. Right like this becomes a media panic

0:54:43.440 --> 0:54:46.120
<v Speaker 2>as a result of Oprah giving it so much oxygen.

0:54:46.640 --> 0:54:48.279
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to quote now from an interview with the

0:54:48.320 --> 0:54:51.480
<v Speaker 2>authors of that book in Salon with Oprah, because that

0:54:51.600 --> 0:54:54.439
<v Speaker 2>reaches so many millions of people, particularly women and women

0:54:54.440 --> 0:54:56.680
<v Speaker 2>that have children. They're hearing that story and saying, oh

0:54:56.680 --> 0:54:58.640
<v Speaker 2>my god, did you hear on Oprah? What's going on?

0:54:58.920 --> 0:55:00.640
<v Speaker 2>We've been a quote in the book that looks at

0:55:00.680 --> 0:55:03.799
<v Speaker 2>another reporter when they're looking at issues of youth and sex,

0:55:03.840 --> 0:55:06.040
<v Speaker 2>a reporter by the name of Costello that says it

0:55:06.120 --> 0:55:09.200
<v Speaker 2>must be true. Didn't you see that Oprah episode? So

0:55:09.360 --> 0:55:12.160
<v Speaker 2>even another reporter ends up citing Oprah as a fact

0:55:12.239 --> 0:55:15.200
<v Speaker 2>checker on rainbow parties being real. So if you're following

0:55:15.239 --> 0:55:20.040
<v Speaker 2>the evidentiary chain of custody here, Oprah's reporter says, I

0:55:20.080 --> 0:55:23.760
<v Speaker 2>talked to fifty girls and like they said rainbow parties

0:55:23.800 --> 0:55:25.920
<v Speaker 2>were pervasive. Did any of them say they'd been to

0:55:25.960 --> 0:55:29.719
<v Speaker 2>one unclear? That turns into another journalist being like, well,

0:55:29.719 --> 0:55:32.959
<v Speaker 2>they're real because it was on Oprah.

0:55:33.040 --> 0:55:38.040
<v Speaker 5>We're locked in baby, Yeah, the circular bullshit machine.

0:55:38.320 --> 0:55:43.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this beautiful stuff. Another Oh, and actually this gets

0:55:43.760 --> 0:55:46.799
<v Speaker 2>back to Degrassi. Another story of Oprah helped push around

0:55:46.840 --> 0:55:50.640
<v Speaker 2>the same time was a panic around sex bracelets. This

0:55:50.680 --> 0:55:52.720
<v Speaker 2>is again the idea that like girls have these color

0:55:52.760 --> 0:55:55.600
<v Speaker 2>coded bracelets to signify all the sex acts they're down

0:55:55.719 --> 0:55:58.239
<v Speaker 2>to perform. And I guess the boys are just going

0:55:58.239 --> 0:56:00.640
<v Speaker 2>around being like, oh, that girl's get a bracelet for

0:56:00.680 --> 0:56:03.040
<v Speaker 2>a foot job, I'm getting up with her. And it's like,

0:56:03.719 --> 0:56:07.080
<v Speaker 2>that's just that's just not how teenagers work. That's not

0:56:07.120 --> 0:56:10.040
<v Speaker 2>how adults work. Nothing works that way except for like,

0:56:10.080 --> 0:56:14.160
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, weird Jeffrey Epstein parties. Probably, I'm sure

0:56:14.200 --> 0:56:16.480
<v Speaker 2>he had some parties like that. I'm sure he had

0:56:16.520 --> 0:56:18.920
<v Speaker 2>parties like that because they watched Oprah and were all

0:56:19.000 --> 0:56:20.279
<v Speaker 2>perverts anyway.

0:56:20.400 --> 0:56:25.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's also like that is such a healthier type

0:56:25.800 --> 0:56:29.720
<v Speaker 3>of consent than anything that actually happens in fucking high school.

0:56:29.840 --> 0:56:33.800
<v Speaker 2>Right, Yes, yes, they're all having like the kind of

0:56:33.960 --> 0:56:37.440
<v Speaker 2>key parties that like middle aged swingers had in nineteen

0:56:37.560 --> 0:56:38.239
<v Speaker 2>seventy four.

0:56:39.920 --> 0:56:42.560
<v Speaker 5>Those bracelets were like very popular when I was coming

0:56:42.600 --> 0:56:44.799
<v Speaker 5>of age, and they were genuinely like y'all could look

0:56:44.800 --> 0:56:45.080
<v Speaker 5>this up.

0:56:45.120 --> 0:56:46.840
<v Speaker 4>They were banned from schools.

0:56:46.840 --> 0:56:52.400
<v Speaker 2>Oh YEAHU of high school. Yes, now this is another

0:56:52.480 --> 0:56:55.719
<v Speaker 2>thing again, both this and rainbow parties. I'm sure, if

0:56:55.719 --> 0:56:58.560
<v Speaker 2>you dug you could find examples of teenagers doing it

0:56:58.680 --> 0:57:02.080
<v Speaker 2>after it becomes immediate panic because kids are like, all right,

0:57:03.320 --> 0:57:04.160
<v Speaker 2>let's give it a shot.

0:57:05.120 --> 0:57:07.440
<v Speaker 4>Were doing it, yeah.

0:57:07.640 --> 0:57:10.480
<v Speaker 2>But yeah. It's not until professional media idiots like Matt

0:57:10.560 --> 0:57:12.799
<v Speaker 2>Lauer Ormantel Williams make a big deal about it that

0:57:12.840 --> 0:57:15.280
<v Speaker 2>it becomes a thing. And in that interview on Salon,

0:57:15.360 --> 0:57:17.640
<v Speaker 2>Best and Bogel get to the heart of what's really

0:57:17.640 --> 0:57:19.760
<v Speaker 2>going on with all of this. I think one of

0:57:19.800 --> 0:57:21.480
<v Speaker 2>the things we show in the last chapter is that

0:57:21.520 --> 0:57:24.120
<v Speaker 2>it's not just one group that likes these stories. Kids

0:57:24.160 --> 0:57:27.080
<v Speaker 2>themselves like them because it's great gossip. What's better than

0:57:27.080 --> 0:57:29.400
<v Speaker 2>to say, oh, the girl wearing the red bracelet you

0:57:29.480 --> 0:57:31.880
<v Speaker 2>know what she does. She gives lap dances. They make

0:57:31.960 --> 0:57:34.640
<v Speaker 2>stories teens like to pass around that make interesting gossip.

0:57:34.840 --> 0:57:36.720
<v Speaker 2>Parents are always worried about their kids, of course, and

0:57:36.720 --> 0:57:38.680
<v Speaker 2>they've been fed a lot of media stories that feed

0:57:38.720 --> 0:57:40.880
<v Speaker 2>into that. So the idea that their child, who they

0:57:40.880 --> 0:57:43.600
<v Speaker 2>think of as innocent, might be corrupted by these other

0:57:43.640 --> 0:57:47.280
<v Speaker 2>forces that feeds into something like they've been fed and

0:57:47.320 --> 0:57:49.680
<v Speaker 2>believed for a long time. Schools want to show how

0:57:49.680 --> 0:57:51.880
<v Speaker 2>they have things under control. They know what's going on

0:57:52.000 --> 0:57:53.680
<v Speaker 2>and they can talk to parents about it, so they

0:57:53.720 --> 0:57:56.280
<v Speaker 2>can say we ban those bracelets to put a stop

0:57:56.320 --> 0:57:58.760
<v Speaker 2>to that. Then, of course the media, there's both the

0:57:58.800 --> 0:58:01.880
<v Speaker 2>idea that sex sells, but also fear cells saying, listen

0:58:01.920 --> 0:58:04.440
<v Speaker 2>to this story. You have something to worry about. You

0:58:04.440 --> 0:58:06.120
<v Speaker 2>have to listen to this because you don't know what's

0:58:06.160 --> 0:58:08.439
<v Speaker 2>really going on and it could affect your child. That's

0:58:08.440 --> 0:58:12.240
<v Speaker 2>what gets viewers and television producers and newspaper paper columnists

0:58:12.320 --> 0:58:17.840
<v Speaker 2>are aware of that. Now we're going to move on

0:58:17.920 --> 0:58:20.040
<v Speaker 2>from the radio party stuff. But I wouldn't be doing

0:58:20.080 --> 0:58:22.960
<v Speaker 2>my job as podcast host if I did not play

0:58:23.000 --> 0:58:24.200
<v Speaker 2>you the rest of that clip.

0:58:25.000 --> 0:58:28.080
<v Speaker 9>So okay, and so what is so what does pretty

0:58:28.080 --> 0:58:28.560
<v Speaker 9>boy mean?

0:58:28.840 --> 0:58:32.000
<v Speaker 6>A pretty boy is a sexually active boy, someone who's

0:58:32.040 --> 0:58:34.360
<v Speaker 6>been fairly promiscuous. So it isn't what maybe what you

0:58:34.400 --> 0:58:36.120
<v Speaker 6>would have thought pretty boy meant in your head. Dirty

0:58:36.160 --> 0:58:38.840
<v Speaker 6>means what does dirty mean? A means a diseased girl.

0:58:38.840 --> 0:58:41.520
<v Speaker 6>And along with that, the term that some teens are

0:58:41.640 --> 0:58:45.600
<v Speaker 6>using to mean HIV is high five high and then

0:58:45.640 --> 0:58:48.200
<v Speaker 6>the Roman numeral B high five. So if you got

0:58:48.240 --> 0:58:51.200
<v Speaker 6>high fived by Jack, you got diseased by Jack.

0:58:51.440 --> 0:58:53.600
<v Speaker 3>I gave you HIV.

0:58:53.920 --> 0:58:55.040
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, what, So that.

0:58:55.000 --> 0:58:56.920
<v Speaker 9>Means you shouldn't go around saying the little kidding where

0:58:56.920 --> 0:58:58.280
<v Speaker 9>I was a little boy and went to give me

0:58:58.360 --> 0:59:01.680
<v Speaker 9>high five. Yeah, you shouldn't do that anymore.

0:59:01.680 --> 0:59:04.040
<v Speaker 6>And suddenly your kids want to make salad all the time.

0:59:04.680 --> 0:59:06.160
<v Speaker 4>You should be wondering, okay.

0:59:06.440 --> 0:59:10.080
<v Speaker 6>And booty call is pretty common, yeah, pretty pervasive. Yeah,

0:59:10.080 --> 0:59:14.240
<v Speaker 6>that's an early morning or late at night call for

0:59:14.320 --> 0:59:16.200
<v Speaker 6>sex that involves no real relationship.

0:59:16.400 --> 0:59:17.280
<v Speaker 4>Maybe two am.

0:59:17.360 --> 0:59:19.160
<v Speaker 6>Guy calls girl and says, meet me at so and

0:59:19.200 --> 0:59:21.200
<v Speaker 6>so location, We have sex, we leave.

0:59:21.560 --> 0:59:22.120
<v Speaker 2>What do you call?

0:59:22.560 --> 0:59:24.040
<v Speaker 4>Y'all knew that, y'all got that right?

0:59:24.320 --> 0:59:24.840
<v Speaker 2>Okay?

0:59:25.320 --> 0:59:26.000
<v Speaker 3>Uh.

0:59:26.120 --> 0:59:29.520
<v Speaker 6>And then there's the term hoovering, which is a term

0:59:29.640 --> 0:59:33.960
<v Speaker 6>used for a girl having an abortion. The yes, you get,

0:59:34.040 --> 0:59:36.360
<v Speaker 6>you get the reference, the sucking of a hoover vacuum.

0:59:36.400 --> 0:59:39.240
<v Speaker 6>She's having herself vacuumed out, so to speak. So these

0:59:39.280 --> 0:59:41.240
<v Speaker 6>were just a few of the terms that I.

0:59:41.560 --> 0:59:42.720
<v Speaker 4>Want her teens referring to.

0:59:42.800 --> 0:59:44.439
<v Speaker 3>I got a whole new vocabulary book.

0:59:44.640 --> 0:59:47.280
<v Speaker 9>So why don't happen when they would say she got hoovered?

0:59:48.440 --> 0:59:50.480
<v Speaker 9>If somebody, if you're talking to somebody in the beginning,

0:59:50.520 --> 0:59:52.640
<v Speaker 9>before you got so right here, Yeah, before I got here?

0:59:52.840 --> 0:59:54.920
<v Speaker 9>What would you what would if somebody said she got

0:59:54.920 --> 0:59:56.600
<v Speaker 9>who would you just say? What do you mean? Yeah?

0:59:56.600 --> 0:59:57.520
<v Speaker 6>What do you mean? What do you mean?

0:59:57.560 --> 0:59:58.440
<v Speaker 3>What does hoover Ring mean?

0:59:58.680 --> 0:59:59.960
<v Speaker 4>She tell me a rainbow part.

1:00:00.040 --> 1:00:02.560
<v Speaker 6>He's pretty common, I think, so leaf among the pipy

1:00:02.560 --> 1:00:02.960
<v Speaker 6>girls that.

1:00:02.920 --> 1:00:03.320
<v Speaker 3>I talked to.

1:00:03.520 --> 1:00:07.000
<v Speaker 2>Yea, that gets us back to what the we'd said before.

1:00:07.000 --> 1:00:10.200
<v Speaker 2>But like, oh God Jesus, but the idea that like,

1:00:10.320 --> 1:00:13.240
<v Speaker 2>kids have like a fun term for getting HIV.

1:00:15.000 --> 1:00:18.080
<v Speaker 3>So not to give notes on the slang, but shouldn't

1:00:18.080 --> 1:00:23.240
<v Speaker 3>it be high four? I'm just I don't know, man.

1:00:23.280 --> 1:00:24.520
<v Speaker 1>Such a writer, Andrew.

1:00:25.360 --> 1:00:29.640
<v Speaker 3>I just like, it's tough that Hoovering really, you know,

1:00:29.720 --> 1:00:32.200
<v Speaker 3>it used to be just suffering from the great a

1:00:32.200 --> 1:00:35.960
<v Speaker 3>Great Depression and now so badly.

1:00:36.720 --> 1:00:41.000
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, it would have been pretty funny to just

1:00:41.040 --> 1:00:43.360
<v Speaker 2>be a con man journalist in this period and be like, yeah,

1:00:43.360 --> 1:00:45.600
<v Speaker 2>the kids can't stop talking about Herbert Hoover, you know,

1:00:46.080 --> 1:00:49.720
<v Speaker 2>like he's their favorite president. He's the only guy on

1:00:49.760 --> 1:00:51.280
<v Speaker 2>the minds of the youth these days.

1:00:52.280 --> 1:00:55.920
<v Speaker 3>I mean, obviously the internet is absolute poison, but truly,

1:00:56.240 --> 1:01:00.280
<v Speaker 3>watching this clip of someone basically read fake Urban Dictionary

1:01:00.320 --> 1:01:03.400
<v Speaker 3>on National TV does kind of give me like, okay,

1:01:03.400 --> 1:01:05.360
<v Speaker 3>some things were improved, Okay.

1:01:05.320 --> 1:01:06.880
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, oh yeah.

1:01:07.040 --> 1:01:09.880
<v Speaker 5>Have y'all seen that meme where it's like iced tea

1:01:09.920 --> 1:01:13.640
<v Speaker 5>from Law and Order SVU explaining or sake things. That's

1:01:13.680 --> 1:01:15.840
<v Speaker 5>what that reminded me of, just someone sitting on stage

1:01:15.880 --> 1:01:18.520
<v Speaker 5>being like, oh yeah, the kids are calling it cat littering.

1:01:18.920 --> 1:01:21.400
<v Speaker 4>It's been like that's what that was.

1:01:21.480 --> 1:01:24.760
<v Speaker 5>It's just somebody making up fake things for entertainment.

1:01:25.680 --> 1:01:28.240
<v Speaker 2>The idea that kids have like a casual slang term

1:01:28.320 --> 1:01:33.720
<v Speaker 2>for getting HIV. It's it's like it's like it's doing

1:01:33.760 --> 1:01:35.200
<v Speaker 2>something in a video game.

1:01:38.280 --> 1:01:42.240
<v Speaker 3>But also like I mean, obviously they were they had

1:01:42.280 --> 1:01:44.800
<v Speaker 3>a vested interest and never thinking about this, but like

1:01:45.680 --> 1:01:50.400
<v Speaker 3>nothing is more like universal than teens lying to all that.

1:01:50.720 --> 1:01:54.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, as if a journalist had ever tried to sit

1:01:54.320 --> 1:01:56.400
<v Speaker 2>down with me and my friends and ask us like

1:01:57.200 --> 1:02:00.680
<v Speaker 2>about if there's any sex slang, we would lied like

1:02:00.880 --> 1:02:04.240
<v Speaker 2>cheap rugs like we would we would not have stopped

1:02:04.320 --> 1:02:07.480
<v Speaker 2>talking until they had run out of space on their recorder.

1:02:07.720 --> 1:02:11.640
<v Speaker 3>You know, Like just like the credulousness is I mean,

1:02:11.640 --> 1:02:15.240
<v Speaker 3>I guess that that I'm realizing now I guess is

1:02:15.320 --> 1:02:17.240
<v Speaker 3>like Oprah's Big crime is just like.

1:02:18.720 --> 1:02:21.040
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yes, that's a big part of it. Or you know,

1:02:21.280 --> 1:02:24.720
<v Speaker 2>if she's not credulous, because again she's a very savvy person.

1:02:25.240 --> 1:02:29.600
<v Speaker 2>It's like marketing credulousness, right, yeah, and.

1:02:29.520 --> 1:02:33.360
<v Speaker 3>It's the mist ship you've ever heard. She'll just be like,

1:02:33.800 --> 1:02:37.520
<v Speaker 3>I mean, listen, that's exactly what Joe Rogan does.

1:02:37.760 --> 1:02:42.760
<v Speaker 2>So right, yep, like that that is there's a really

1:02:43.120 --> 1:02:46.680
<v Speaker 2>like you don't have Joe Rogan without the Oprah Winfrey show,

1:02:46.880 --> 1:02:50.880
<v Speaker 2>you know, yeah, just like you don't have Oprah without Donahue. Now,

1:02:50.960 --> 1:02:53.280
<v Speaker 2>Oprah is not the only person obviously who's spread this

1:02:53.400 --> 1:02:55.640
<v Speaker 2>kind of stuff, but she is the biggest name in

1:02:55.680 --> 1:02:58.760
<v Speaker 2>the world of people doing this. As Vanity Fair stated

1:02:58.760 --> 1:03:01.800
<v Speaker 2>in the year two thousand when launched Oh magazine, quote,

1:03:01.840 --> 1:03:05.080
<v Speaker 2>Oprah Winfrey arguably has more influence on the culture than

1:03:05.120 --> 1:03:09.920
<v Speaker 2>any university president, politician, or religious religious leader except perhaps

1:03:09.960 --> 1:03:12.640
<v Speaker 2>the Pope. And I'm just gonna say it, John Paul

1:03:12.640 --> 1:03:14.360
<v Speaker 2>the second I think was the pope at this time,

1:03:14.400 --> 1:03:16.920
<v Speaker 2>and I believe Oprah had more of an influence than

1:03:17.720 --> 1:03:23.680
<v Speaker 2>American culture at least, like who remembers, oh, JP, the

1:03:23.800 --> 1:03:30.000
<v Speaker 2>two you got shot once? Come on, I know popes

1:03:30.040 --> 1:03:31.640
<v Speaker 2>who have been shot way more than that.

1:03:32.480 --> 1:03:35.920
<v Speaker 3>Also, do individual popes really have that much influence? I mean,

1:03:35.920 --> 1:03:37.720
<v Speaker 3>they're still you.

1:03:37.840 --> 1:03:39.680
<v Speaker 2>Certainly did well.

1:03:40.360 --> 1:03:42.800
<v Speaker 3>I'm just I just mean, like they don't really have

1:03:43.040 --> 1:03:47.560
<v Speaker 3>more influence than any other pope. Really, like you're still

1:03:47.600 --> 1:03:50.160
<v Speaker 3>operating within the bands of Catholicism.

1:03:50.400 --> 1:03:52.560
<v Speaker 2>Look, most of what I know about the pope comes

1:03:52.560 --> 1:03:57.600
<v Speaker 2>from the movie The Conclave, which is largely yeah, yeah, yeah,

1:03:57.640 --> 1:04:00.800
<v Speaker 2>which is which is largely that Stanley Tucci looks incredible

1:04:00.840 --> 1:04:04.000
<v Speaker 2>in Catholic vestiments, Like it's like he was poured into him,

1:04:04.040 --> 1:04:07.400
<v Speaker 2>that that man can really pull off whatever you call

1:04:07.440 --> 1:04:13.080
<v Speaker 2>those outfits. Also, Ralph finds, Oh my god, his teuch

1:04:13.320 --> 1:04:21.680
<v Speaker 2>chains the tuch oh Man, and then John Lithgow out

1:04:21.720 --> 1:04:24.560
<v Speaker 2>of nowhere love it, the vaping Cardinal, all sorts of

1:04:24.560 --> 1:04:25.640
<v Speaker 2>good stuff in that movie.

1:04:25.920 --> 1:04:31.440
<v Speaker 3>Okay, I am more sold by the concept of a

1:04:31.560 --> 1:04:32.080
<v Speaker 3>vaping car.

1:04:33.520 --> 1:04:37.360
<v Speaker 2>It's good they hire an Italian man whose face was

1:04:37.520 --> 1:04:41.680
<v Speaker 2>made to angrily vape while wearing vestiments. It's amazing that

1:04:41.800 --> 1:04:49.000
<v Speaker 2>casting director deserves the Medal of Honor. Okay, so yeah,

1:04:49.000 --> 1:04:51.520
<v Speaker 2>I think that that's probably a broadly accurate statement. The

1:04:51.640 --> 1:04:54.520
<v Speaker 2>Rainbow Party disinformation is part of a long tradition of

1:04:54.520 --> 1:04:58.080
<v Speaker 2>Oprah episodes about how dangerous life has become for young children.

1:04:58.480 --> 1:05:01.600
<v Speaker 2>Every year, as violent crime fell and violence towards children

1:05:01.680 --> 1:05:05.160
<v Speaker 2>usually fell, Oprah barraged her audience with ceaseless tales of

1:05:05.240 --> 1:05:09.600
<v Speaker 2>child abductions, child sex trafficking, child drug abuse, and teen sex.

1:05:10.240 --> 1:05:13.600
<v Speaker 2>Studies show consistently that Americans believe violent crime is much

1:05:13.680 --> 1:05:15.960
<v Speaker 2>higher than it in fact is. We are in the

1:05:16.000 --> 1:05:18.640
<v Speaker 2>midst of a very frightening moral panic over child sex

1:05:18.680 --> 1:05:22.080
<v Speaker 2>trafficking right now, which does not resemble how child sex

1:05:22.080 --> 1:05:25.920
<v Speaker 2>trafficking actually looks. I'm speaking of right now about Tim Ballard,

1:05:25.960 --> 1:05:29.479
<v Speaker 2>who lies about his life Rescuing kids from child sex

1:05:29.480 --> 1:05:32.800
<v Speaker 2>trafficking networks were the basis of the blockbuster movie's Sound

1:05:32.800 --> 1:05:35.600
<v Speaker 2>of Freedom. Ballard spent years claimed to be fighting an

1:05:35.640 --> 1:05:39.280
<v Speaker 2>international shadowy network of child traffickers, while he just resigned

1:05:39.280 --> 1:05:42.840
<v Speaker 2>after being charged with massive sexual misconduct and abuse himself.

1:05:43.200 --> 1:05:45.600
<v Speaker 2>Despite all of this, tons of people believe little kids

1:05:45.600 --> 1:05:48.480
<v Speaker 2>are being targeted and stolen by criminal organizations, when again,

1:05:48.800 --> 1:05:52.040
<v Speaker 2>they are usually being molested by people who are responsible

1:05:52.080 --> 1:05:56.040
<v Speaker 2>for them, not random narco gangs abducting kids and parking

1:05:56.040 --> 1:05:58.320
<v Speaker 2>lots by putting cheese on the doors of their mom's car.

1:05:58.800 --> 1:06:00.000
<v Speaker 2>That's not the problem.

1:06:00.640 --> 1:06:02.400
<v Speaker 4>OPRAH bears a good share.

1:06:02.200 --> 1:06:04.680
<v Speaker 2>Of the blame for how unhinged many Americans are about

1:06:04.680 --> 1:06:07.560
<v Speaker 2>the dangers that children face. And this is I'm making

1:06:07.600 --> 1:06:10.400
<v Speaker 2>this allegation based on stuff like the Rainbow Party panic

1:06:10.440 --> 1:06:14.480
<v Speaker 2>and other years of other similar episodes, but you know

1:06:15.000 --> 1:06:17.760
<v Speaker 2>it's during my research. I ran into a really interesting

1:06:17.800 --> 1:06:20.200
<v Speaker 2>thread in a website on free range parenting. And I'm

1:06:20.240 --> 1:06:21.800
<v Speaker 2>not making I don't know much about free I'm not

1:06:21.880 --> 1:06:23.720
<v Speaker 2>making a comment on that, but I found it interesting

1:06:23.760 --> 1:06:25.080
<v Speaker 2>to read what these people had to say. In a

1:06:25.120 --> 1:06:28.480
<v Speaker 2>thread titled did OPRAH make us terrified for our kids?

1:06:28.640 --> 1:06:31.720
<v Speaker 2>The author who identifies themselves as Laura Wrights. As I

1:06:31.720 --> 1:06:34.440
<v Speaker 2>think about the litany of freak accidents and hidden dangers

1:06:34.480 --> 1:06:36.640
<v Speaker 2>I need to be constantly worried about for my kids.

1:06:36.680 --> 1:06:39.960
<v Speaker 2>Almost everything has one common recurring element. I saw it

1:06:40.040 --> 1:06:43.200
<v Speaker 2>on OPRAH. One time, baby drowning in an inch of water,

1:06:43.280 --> 1:06:45.600
<v Speaker 2>healthy girl scrapes her knee and dies of MRSA child

1:06:45.680 --> 1:06:48.560
<v Speaker 2>decapitated by an airbag, carbon monoxide from the car in

1:06:48.600 --> 1:06:52.200
<v Speaker 2>the garage kills the family, dry drowning, school shootings, home invasions,

1:06:52.320 --> 1:06:55.640
<v Speaker 2>and countless other tragedies then there are the abduction, molestation,

1:06:55.720 --> 1:06:58.760
<v Speaker 2>and sexual predator stories. These were typically featured on OPRAH

1:06:58.800 --> 1:07:01.680
<v Speaker 2>at least once a week. Well, I applaud oprah's efforts

1:07:01.720 --> 1:07:04.280
<v Speaker 2>to raise awareness, catch truly horrible criminals, and break the

1:07:04.280 --> 1:07:06.880
<v Speaker 2>silence of abuse victims. This had to have an impact

1:07:06.920 --> 1:07:09.120
<v Speaker 2>on the perception that there is a predator around every

1:07:09.160 --> 1:07:11.840
<v Speaker 2>corner and you can never be too careful because anything

1:07:12.080 --> 1:07:17.240
<v Speaker 2>could happen. And I think she's on the money there, right,

1:07:17.440 --> 1:07:21.200
<v Speaker 2>Like the helicopter parenting, the fact that like kids, there's

1:07:21.240 --> 1:07:23.960
<v Speaker 2>not zero OPRAH, and the fact that like kids stop

1:07:24.280 --> 1:07:26.880
<v Speaker 2>going outdoors, you know, and like.

1:07:27.000 --> 1:07:31.200
<v Speaker 3>True crime podcasts. Now, it's like, just to make white

1:07:31.200 --> 1:07:33.959
<v Speaker 3>women assume that the world is out for their kids,

1:07:34.040 --> 1:07:37.080
<v Speaker 3>industry is the strongest thing going.

1:07:37.520 --> 1:07:37.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

1:07:37.760 --> 1:07:41.040
<v Speaker 5>I mean, if you've ever seen videos of women moms

1:07:41.040 --> 1:07:43.640
<v Speaker 5>who were like I was at the Walmart and a

1:07:43.720 --> 1:07:47.320
<v Speaker 5>man looked at my child, Stay safe, mama, bears like

1:07:47.800 --> 1:07:49.520
<v Speaker 5>it was the scariest thing that ever happened to me.

1:07:49.960 --> 1:07:53.640
<v Speaker 5>We're like, it is this fantasy that around every corner

1:07:53.680 --> 1:07:55.480
<v Speaker 5>there is a threat to you and your child. And

1:07:55.520 --> 1:07:59.080
<v Speaker 5>I think it's dangerous precisely because it keeps you from

1:07:59.160 --> 1:08:02.160
<v Speaker 5>seeing the action threats that are there, right, like the

1:08:02.200 --> 1:08:05.160
<v Speaker 5>creepy soccer coach, the creepy guy at church, right, Like yeah,

1:08:05.160 --> 1:08:07.880
<v Speaker 5>And I also think, like with the Rainbow parties, if

1:08:07.880 --> 1:08:12.040
<v Speaker 5>you are so busy thinking about these fabricated fictional threats

1:08:12.040 --> 1:08:14.600
<v Speaker 5>to your kids, what if you're the things that are

1:08:14.680 --> 1:08:17.439
<v Speaker 5>actually happening in your kid's life day to day at school?

1:08:17.680 --> 1:08:19.639
<v Speaker 5>How are they going to come talk to you? How

1:08:19.640 --> 1:08:22.519
<v Speaker 5>are you going to foster a safe, open, communicative environment

1:08:22.760 --> 1:08:25.840
<v Speaker 5>if you've been led to believe that, like these fictional

1:08:25.920 --> 1:08:27.360
<v Speaker 5>threats are out there and that they're real.

1:08:27.840 --> 1:08:28.120
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1:08:28.240 --> 1:08:28.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

1:08:28.960 --> 1:08:32.920
<v Speaker 3>Well, Also it's like, I mean, because it is you know,

1:08:33.800 --> 1:08:38.400
<v Speaker 3>scout leaders, church leaders and their husbands that are doing

1:08:38.439 --> 1:08:41.960
<v Speaker 3>most of this stuff. It's like those people are the

1:08:41.960 --> 1:08:45.720
<v Speaker 3>ones that they have some responsibility for bringing into their

1:08:45.800 --> 1:08:51.519
<v Speaker 3>child's life, whereas a narco gang is just randomly out there,

1:08:51.840 --> 1:08:53.960
<v Speaker 3>Like you don't have to confront anything about yourself to

1:08:54.040 --> 1:08:56.839
<v Speaker 3>protect a kid from the others.

1:08:57.600 --> 1:09:01.400
<v Speaker 2>Ding ding, fucking ding. I think right, It's so it's

1:09:01.479 --> 1:09:05.800
<v Speaker 2>hard to raise kids, and like you can be a responsible,

1:09:05.840 --> 1:09:07.920
<v Speaker 2>decent person who does their best with your kid and

1:09:07.960 --> 1:09:11.000
<v Speaker 2>they can have a horrible life. That's the world, right,

1:09:11.360 --> 1:09:15.800
<v Speaker 2>Like you can't stop that. And instead of like confronting

1:09:15.840 --> 1:09:18.400
<v Speaker 2>that and confronting like, well, all I can really do is,

1:09:18.880 --> 1:09:21.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, try to be the best parent for my kid.

1:09:21.840 --> 1:09:24.280
<v Speaker 2>You get all these like obsessions with things that just

1:09:24.360 --> 1:09:28.200
<v Speaker 2>are not realistic threats and dangers, and you just feel like,

1:09:28.240 --> 1:09:32.280
<v Speaker 2>if I continue scratching that fear itch by watching this stuff,

1:09:32.720 --> 1:09:35.639
<v Speaker 2>maybe it'll make it less likely to happen to me. Right,

1:09:36.000 --> 1:09:38.280
<v Speaker 2>maybe if I if I train my eyes on the

1:09:38.320 --> 1:09:40.920
<v Speaker 2>eye of horace, it will be less likely to harm

1:09:40.960 --> 1:09:42.040
<v Speaker 2>me and my loved ones.

1:09:42.160 --> 1:09:42.360
<v Speaker 6>You know.

1:09:42.880 --> 1:09:45.479
<v Speaker 3>Well, it's like the safety theater makes you feel better

1:09:45.520 --> 1:09:49.599
<v Speaker 3>then again confronting the actual difficult shit that.

1:09:49.840 --> 1:09:53.799
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, like the danger of all of this stuff

1:09:53.920 --> 1:09:57.559
<v Speaker 2>was less. You know, kids are having rainbow parties or

1:09:58.160 --> 1:10:02.519
<v Speaker 2>you know, pedophile gangs or abducting kids in vans and

1:10:02.560 --> 1:10:05.679
<v Speaker 2>more like, hey, uh, have you looked at your kid's

1:10:05.680 --> 1:10:08.800
<v Speaker 2>Scout leader lately? Seems like here's a little one on

1:10:08.800 --> 1:10:11.800
<v Speaker 2>one time with the boys. By the way, should somebody

1:10:11.800 --> 1:10:12.320
<v Speaker 2>look at on that.

1:10:12.840 --> 1:10:15.519
<v Speaker 3>Scouts in general, it's also just like a right wing

1:10:15.600 --> 1:10:21.320
<v Speaker 3>paramilitary organization, even without the funny business. You could learn

1:10:21.479 --> 1:10:25.280
<v Speaker 3>to camp and fish and hunt without all the fucking

1:10:25.640 --> 1:10:27.799
<v Speaker 3>like allegiances to order.

1:10:27.960 --> 1:10:29.880
<v Speaker 2>You know, Andrew, thank you, because I wanted to pivot

1:10:29.920 --> 1:10:32.400
<v Speaker 2>to letting everyone know that if you give your kids

1:10:32.400 --> 1:10:34.720
<v Speaker 2>to me for one week out of the year, they

1:10:34.760 --> 1:10:37.719
<v Speaker 2>will come back. It's the Lawrence of Arabia school for children.

1:10:37.720 --> 1:10:40.400
<v Speaker 2>They're going to learn how to blow up bridges and trains. Right,

1:10:40.640 --> 1:10:43.240
<v Speaker 2>what do they do with that knowledge? That's up to them.

1:10:43.320 --> 1:10:46.120
<v Speaker 2>I have no control of them. Once they've learned how

1:10:46.120 --> 1:10:49.439
<v Speaker 2>to make the explosives and destroy bridge supports, it's no

1:10:49.560 --> 1:10:52.080
<v Speaker 2>longer my responsibility after that point.

1:10:52.200 --> 1:10:54.519
<v Speaker 4>You know, the start of Robert starting a boy army.

1:10:56.840 --> 1:11:00.280
<v Speaker 2>Everybody does want a child army, you know, speaking of popes,

1:11:00.360 --> 1:11:05.839
<v Speaker 2>Bridget like, that's that's like a third of the popes. Wow,

1:11:06.960 --> 1:11:10.519
<v Speaker 2>solid subset of the pope population has child armies.

1:11:10.560 --> 1:11:10.760
<v Speaker 3>You know.

1:11:13.600 --> 1:11:15.000
<v Speaker 2>Anyway, I think that's an episode.

1:11:15.200 --> 1:11:17.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so I was gonna say, we gotta we gotta stop.

1:11:17.560 --> 1:11:19.120
<v Speaker 2>Turns out we have a lot more Oprah to do.

1:11:19.200 --> 1:11:20.760
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what we're gonna do about this, but

1:11:20.840 --> 1:11:24.320
<v Speaker 2>everybody go away for the weekend. Bridget Pluggables.

1:11:25.120 --> 1:11:28.759
<v Speaker 5>Uh yeah, you can subscribe to my boy Army newsletter.

1:11:28.880 --> 1:11:31.160
<v Speaker 4>Notice kidding. You can listen to my podcast. There are

1:11:31.160 --> 1:11:32.240
<v Speaker 4>our NCLs on the internet.

1:11:32.520 --> 1:11:35.960
<v Speaker 5>My podcast with Mozilla Foundation, the makers of Firefox called

1:11:36.040 --> 1:11:38.559
<v Speaker 5>irl about who has the Power in AI?

1:11:38.720 --> 1:11:40.320
<v Speaker 4>And follow me on Instagram at bridget r.

1:11:40.360 --> 1:11:44.640
<v Speaker 3>And DC excellent Andrew T, I don't know man, Just

1:11:45.000 --> 1:11:46.640
<v Speaker 3>osis Racist is a podcast?

1:11:46.920 --> 1:11:50.640
<v Speaker 2>Excellent, excellent. All right, everybody until next week. Remember the

1:11:50.760 --> 1:11:53.200
<v Speaker 2>Robert Evans summer camp for kids to learn how to

1:11:53.240 --> 1:11:57.560
<v Speaker 2>blow up trains and disrupt national infrastructure. It's not illegal

1:11:57.600 --> 1:12:03.640
<v Speaker 2>if we don't tell them to do anything with the knowledge. Bye.

1:12:04.840 --> 1:12:07.559
<v Speaker 7>Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1:12:07.920 --> 1:12:11.200
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1:12:11.360 --> 1:12:14.559
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1:12:14.640 --> 1:12:17.120
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1:12:21.360 --> 1:12:22.559
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1:12:22.880 --> 1:12:26.639
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1:12:26.680 --> 1:12:27.320
<v Speaker 8>the Bastards.