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Speaker 1: Also media.

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Speaker 2: Oh boy, well, welcome back to Behind the Bastards of podcast,

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Speaker 2: where we just took a five minute break between part

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Speaker 2: three and part four of the Oprah Winfrey episodes. If

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Speaker 2: you're all like me, you mainline some doom scrolling news

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Speaker 2: from your phone about how bad things continue to be

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Speaker 2: and also how the Equal Rights abeddment is ratified, but

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Speaker 2: also not great stuff. You know, folks, Whenever I start

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Speaker 2: to think we live in the dumbest society that's ever lived,

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Speaker 2: and like, how sad for us to live in such

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Speaker 2: a stupid, stupid society, I have something that helps me

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Speaker 2: get some historical perspective, which is I have a very

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Speaker 2: big book right next to my bed that I read

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Speaker 2: a little bit of every night called The Assyrians. And

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Speaker 2: that really helps because there's literally ass in the name

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Speaker 2: of that culture, like ass just right on the front

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Speaker 2: of the book. So you know what, we're not so silly,

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Speaker 2: you know, you know, at least you're not an ass Syrium. Right,

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Speaker 2: it's fine, it's fun, We're good.

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Speaker 3: You done whatever it takes.

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Speaker 2: Whatever it takes. I'm just trying to feel better. I

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Speaker 2: feel like other people don't enjoy the word ass being

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Speaker 2: on the front of a book as much as I do,

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Speaker 2: because they are no longer. Four. How's our guest today,

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Speaker 2: bridget Todd and Andrew t How are we doing?

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Speaker 4: Doing well?

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Speaker 3: I had a really good Climbentine in the break.

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Speaker 2: Clutch that's good.

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Speaker 1: I convinced Jamie loft Is to cover a topic I

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Speaker 1: wanted to cover in sixteenth minute. During that five minute break,

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Speaker 1: I'm efficient.

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Speaker 5: Oh wow, and Andrew, I tried to make your salad

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Speaker 5: and it was really good.

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Speaker 3: It's really good salad. It's not my salad, but unfortunately

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Speaker 3: it's TikTok. They plagiarized it either way, but it is

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Speaker 3: TikTok's salad. I guess that's sure. It's someone's alan. I

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Speaker 3: understand that.

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Speaker 1: But TikTok has the best recipes, honestly, all right, question maybe.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you don't know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I pledge allegiance to communist China.

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Speaker 2: You know what? We all pledge allegiance to communists China.

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Speaker 2: I spent three minutes on what is that? What's the

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Speaker 2: new one? I forgot the name of this joke I

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Speaker 2: spent the joke's not going to work anymore. Whatever, fuck it,

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Speaker 2: it's done. It's done. Oprah, pill us go I couldn't

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Speaker 2: be less interested and a TikTok alternative or TikTok. I

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Speaker 2: don't need either of them. What I do need is

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Speaker 2: to tell y'all more about Oprah Winfrey.

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Speaker 3: The TikTok of her day.

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Speaker 2: The TikTok actually kind of yes, kind of yes, although

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Speaker 2: Oprah again, I mean, I guess big difference is like

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Speaker 2: TikTok had like really launched a popularity with like tweens

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Speaker 2: and teens, whereas Oprah is immediately and for her whole

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Speaker 2: career very very much locked into like thirty to fifty

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Speaker 2: year old middle class American women. Like that is, as

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Speaker 2: not the whole because she's popular all over the world,

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Speaker 2: but like she has a lock that's like unequaled by

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Speaker 2: anyone else on that specific demographic, which is like a

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Speaker 2: very influence. It's everyone's mom's right, Like I'm not saying

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Speaker 2: I hope like people say that to be like joking.

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Speaker 2: Like my mom, who I disagreed with but respect a lot,

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Speaker 2: watched Oprah every single fucking day, right like everyone's mom did.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, Like I could tell when Oprah covered something on

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Speaker 5: her show if my mom sat me down after school.

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Speaker 4: To be like, are you having rainbow parties, like me

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Speaker 4: talking about rainbow parties, bridget.

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Speaker 6: So.

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Speaker 2: As I pointed out earlier, Oprah at this point in

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Speaker 2: her career was kind of and we're talking the start

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Speaker 2: of the nineties now indistinguishable from Jerry Springer. And I'm

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Speaker 2: not talking about that on a like specifically even on

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Speaker 2: a moral level, just in terms of that is how

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Speaker 2: cultural critics talked about her. Right this was trash TV.

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Speaker 2: It's hard to get to again, hard to get to

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Speaker 2: grips with if, like you know, you grew up with

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Speaker 2: her in the nineties when she was kind of in

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Speaker 2: between a movie star and a god like Oprah. Oprah

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Speaker 2: was like sainted in a lot of households. But right

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Speaker 2: around the time Winfrey started her satanic panicking, Ralph Nader

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Speaker 2: named her as one of many talk shows in the

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Speaker 2: country that got quote all their ideas from the National Inquirer.

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Speaker 2: Now in her excellent critical book Age of Oprah, And

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Speaker 2: if you're going to read one book on Oprah Winfrey,

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Speaker 2: I recommend Age of Oprah by Janis Peckett's not a biography,

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Speaker 2: it's like an analysis of the role Oprah has played

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Speaker 2: in the evolution of American society over the last like

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Speaker 2: thirty years. Janis writes about the critiques that the wash

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Speaker 2: that Washington Post writer Tom Shales had of Winfrey's program,

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Speaker 2: labeling it talk rot. Quote Shales to crime talk shows

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Speaker 2: as a daily parade of wackos, looney stars, celebrities, freaks, geeks,

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Speaker 2: and gurus. Referring to the Oprah Winfrey Show, he noted

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Speaker 2: on one of her few serious, outer directed shows, Winfrey

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Speaker 2: dealt with declining literacy among the young and the escalating

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Speaker 2: crisis in American education, and promo, she looked into the

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Speaker 2: camera and asked, how dumb are we? There's every possibility

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Speaker 2: that talk rot is making us dumber, and that's him

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Speaker 2: saying that, right that, like Oprah's saying we're dumb for

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Speaker 2: not reading, but like her show is making us dumber,

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Speaker 2: and like, yeah, it's part of that loop. It's also

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Speaker 2: Oprah's going to later become one of the people who's

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Speaker 2: a major champion of literacy, although not in ways that

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Speaker 2: are unproblematic too. Anyway, I actually.

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Speaker 3: Got a little glimmer of hope from that, just like

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Speaker 3: a reminder that I know and I'm not like a teacher.

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Speaker 3: I had lunch with a friend who was a teacher

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Speaker 3: yesterday and he was like, the kids are not able

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Speaker 3: to read. Yeah, but I do think this might be

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Speaker 3: counterfactual to like survey data, But I do kind of

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Speaker 3: think every generation thinks the current kids can't are dumber

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Speaker 3: than ever before.

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Speaker 2: There's two there's two sides to this, right. One of

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Speaker 2: them is that every generation, as soon as they hit

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Speaker 2: a certain age, starts thinking that these next kids coming

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Speaker 2: up are uniquely fucked up and like everyone's ruined, right,

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Speaker 2: and like the world's going to hell in a hand basket,

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Speaker 2: and they're always kind of wrong. At the same time,

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Speaker 2: every single new generation is fucked up in a unique

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Speaker 2: new way, and like the TikTok kids are fucked up

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Speaker 2: on TikTok and iPads in a way that didn't exist before,

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Speaker 2: just like my gener our generation was fucked up by

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Speaker 2: message boards and online gaming and the like in ways

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Speaker 2: that were unique, you know to kids that had come previously,

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Speaker 2: just like our but our Gen X friends were fucked

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Speaker 2: up on leaded gasoline, you know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, But it's also like, you know, the kids are

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Speaker 3: getting fucked up on particularly spicy epigrams from contulis. You know.

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Speaker 3: It's just like I think it's always been like this.

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Speaker 2: It has always been like this. There are unique ways

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Speaker 2: in which every generation is like fucked up. And also,

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Speaker 2: I'll just say this, kids, if you are a very

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Speaker 2: young person coming up right now and you're trying to

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Speaker 2: figure out how do I make it in this world,

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Speaker 2: one of the chief things you have on your side

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Speaker 2: is that everyone older than you thinks you're an idiot.

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Speaker 2: And the truth is that they're all as stupid as

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Speaker 2: you are. So take advantage of that. Take there's power

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Speaker 2: in being underestimated.

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Speaker 4: Kids, That's actually very wise advice.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm full of wise advice once every month.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And one of the things that's problematic here is that

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Speaker 2: Oprah does deserve a lot of criticism for like the

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Speaker 2: satanic panic shit, the McMartin preschool trial shit. There's also

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Speaker 2: a lot of these big hoity twity cultural critics are

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Speaker 2: attacking her because they also view they rightly are like, well,

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Speaker 2: this satanic panic stuff is like smut, But also this

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Speaker 2: woman talking about how she needs therapy in order to

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Speaker 2: have a healthy sex life is smut. And so you see,

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Speaker 2: like it's this blending of like, well but no, but

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Speaker 2: that's actually a good thing that Oprah was doing. With like, no,

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Speaker 2: this is in fact smut, but it's all smut to

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Speaker 2: a lot of these guys. So that's part of the

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Speaker 2: problem of like looking at a lot of the criticism

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Speaker 2: of Oprah from this era is a lot of it

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Speaker 2: is attacking her for stuff that we're like, well, but no,

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Speaker 2: that was one of the good things that she did.

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Speaker 5: Wow, that's the trip of engaging in this kind of discourse, right, Like,

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Speaker 5: when you actually have substantive stuff to say, of course

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Speaker 5: people are going to paint everything with such a wide

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Speaker 5: brush when you also do these like satanic panic antics, right,

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Speaker 5: Like part of me is like, that's kind of on

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Speaker 5: you for having this in your portfolio in the first place.

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Speaker 3: Right well, also, like the satanic panic stuff is not

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Speaker 3: bad because it's smut. It's bad because it's lies, right.

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Speaker 2: Right, right, right, Yes, that's a very good note, Andrew,

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Speaker 2: like both of you very good notes. Thank you. Uh,

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Speaker 2: It's it's a mess because like you're looking for you

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Speaker 2: always want just a really good if you're doing this job,

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Speaker 2: I want a really good like, ah, this guy nailed

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Speaker 2: what's problematic, and it's always like this guy nailed part

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Speaker 2: of what was problematic and then said something really really

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Speaker 2: mean towards women. Yeah, I love the Washington Post.

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Speaker 3: It's fine. It's only getting better. They're turning it around.

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Speaker 2: They're turning it around.

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Speaker 3: God.

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Speaker 2: So one example of things that Oprah got attacked for

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Speaker 2: that she probably shouldn't have been that, like this was

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Speaker 2: considered smut by a lot of critics. What's her coverage

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Speaker 2: of the transgender community? And boy howdie, I am not

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Speaker 2: saying that it was what we would call today good.

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Speaker 2: What I am saying is that even as early as

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Speaker 2: when she was on people are talking, which was the

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Speaker 2: pre Oprah Winfrey Oprah Winfrey Show, she would bring on

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Speaker 2: transgender guests, and she's doing it because it's lascivious and

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Speaker 2: it gets attention, but she's also it's not like smut.

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Speaker 2: Like one her early guest that had an impact on her,

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Speaker 2: she finds this transgender mother with brittle bone disease. So

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Speaker 2: this is both somebody who was transgender, and if you

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Speaker 2: read stories about it, they use the term transsexual. They're

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Speaker 2: not trying to be shitty. That was the term in

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Speaker 2: common parlance at the time. I'm obviously updating it, but

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Speaker 2: this is a person who both is trans, is a mother,

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Speaker 2: and is a disabled American and the fact that Oprah's

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Speaker 2: letting her talk about her life is giving a sympathetic

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Speaker 2: and humanizing portrayal to someone who had zero visibility in

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Speaker 2: the culture at the time. As Kitty Kelly notes, the

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Speaker 2: show was criticized when it aired, but afterward Oprah happened

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Speaker 2: to see the child with the transgender quadriplegic. It was

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Speaker 2: just a moving thing, she said, I thought this child

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Speaker 2: will grow up with more love than most children before.

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Speaker 2: I was one of those people who thought all homosexuals

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Speaker 2: or anything like that were going to burn in hell

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Speaker 2: because the scriptures said it. And this is Oprah was

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Speaker 2: very homophobic as a child and as a young adult,

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Speaker 2: and she would list this experience as key to her

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Speaker 2: overcoming the bigotry that she had been raised with. Right,

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Speaker 2: And I think it makes totally As a child who

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Speaker 2: had lacked so much love in her life, the thing

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Speaker 2: that turns her around on this is being like, but

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Speaker 2: this lady's a really good mom, right, Like, she clearly

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Speaker 2: loves this kid. This kid's going to grow up with

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Speaker 2: That's all that matters to me as a kid who

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Speaker 2: was neglected, right. I think that's just worth stating too.

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Speaker 2: Before we get back into the criticism because that's kind

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Speaker 2: of beautiful. And the fact that she gets attacked for

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Speaker 2: this too is again it's part of the like, well,

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Speaker 2: if your Oprah, and you're trying to triangulate what is

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Speaker 2: okay for me to do and what is not. I'm

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Speaker 2: getting attacked both for the stuff that is bad and

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Speaker 2: also for the stuff that it's like, No, it's great

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Speaker 2: that she did this, Like, I'm glad she did, you know.

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Speaker 2: In January of nineteen ninety four, a thirty nine year

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Speaker 2: old Oprah Winfrey announced her on air plan to stop

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Speaker 2: talking about quote how bad things are and instead try

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Speaker 2: to bring more peace to her audience and thus the planet.

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Speaker 2: She had like a long speech about trash TV. This

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Speaker 2: is kind of her being like, I think the winds

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Speaker 2: are changing. I don't think that the smut kind of

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Speaker 2: TV where we're you know, we're talking about here's people

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Speaker 2: talking about like the fights they're having with their ex.

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Speaker 2: We'll bring them on and they'll fight on stage. That

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Speaker 2: was not going to be, you know, coming into the

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Speaker 2: late nineties as popular as it had been. And Oprah's like,

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Speaker 2: I want to rebrand myself. I want to have some prestige,

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Speaker 2: right and The way she does that, the way she

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Speaker 2: starts her pivot into I am a serious intellectual and

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Speaker 2: spiritual advisor, is to bring on friend of the pod

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Speaker 2: mary Anne Williamson.

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Speaker 4: Here she is, Here's there. There we go. Forgot about this?

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Speaker 4: She absolutely did.

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Speaker 2: This is This is when Oprah becomes a spiritual influencer.

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Speaker 2: Maryann Williamson is like a key part of that. Here's

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Speaker 2: how Janis Peck describes Williamson at this stage in her career,

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Speaker 2: and this is ninety four. Williamson is quote a former

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Speaker 2: nightclub singer. Describe spiritual psychologists, occasional advisor to Hillary Clinton,

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Speaker 2: spiritual guide for Hollywood stars, and major inspiration behind Winfrey's

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Speaker 2: own cosmology. What a resume?

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Speaker 4: Oh God, also doesn't believe in AIDS.

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Speaker 2: Doesn't Yes, we're about to talk about that. Mariette is

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Speaker 2: a complicated person to unpack from a harm standpoint, Much

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Speaker 2: like Oprah. They have a lot in common. I'm not

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Speaker 2: surprised they're friends. When she launched her twenty twenty presidential campaign,

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Speaker 2: queer focused news outlets like The Pink News rightfully pointed

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Speaker 2: out that during the AIDS crisis, Williamson, who had a

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Speaker 2: huge queer following, and had founded a Center for Living

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Speaker 2: in Los Angeles, published a book in nineteen ninety two

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Speaker 2: which argued quote, cancer and AIDS and other physical illnesses

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Speaker 2: are physical manifestations of a psychic scream. Williamson went on

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Speaker 2: to make an argument that is could be argued as

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Speaker 2: not so far from the Christian conservative line on AIDS.

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Speaker 2: We're not punished for our sins, but by our sins.

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Speaker 2: Sickness is not a sign of God's judgment on us,

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Speaker 2: but of our judgment on ourselves. Sickness is an illusion

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Speaker 2: and does not actually exist. And it's complicated because you

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Speaker 2: can translate all of that as like, well, she's saying

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Speaker 2: people with AIDS brought it on themselves, and she kind

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Speaker 2: of is. She's also not just focusing on gay people there.

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Speaker 2: She thinks if you have lung cancer, whatever, if you've

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Speaker 2: got fucking childhood leukemia, you brought it on yourself through

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Speaker 2: your bad thinking. Right, So it is it is not

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Speaker 2: targeted against gay people. But it's also really problematic in

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Speaker 2: that concept because you're saying everyone who gets sick brought

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Speaker 2: the sickness on themselves by virtue of their thoughts.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, all the positive vibe shit is so like just

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Speaker 3: consider the converse of what you're saying for two seconds.

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Speaker 2: I think everyone who yeah.

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Speaker 3: This child deserved to die because his vibes were off

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Speaker 3: and it's it's.

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Speaker 2: Not she's she would say no, I'm saying that, like

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Speaker 2: if you like, part of healing this is fixed people's

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Speaker 2: attitudes and improving the way they think and talk about themselves,

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Speaker 2: and that will help their physical health. I just think

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Speaker 2: everyone who believes this should have to lecture about this

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Speaker 2: to like a child cancer ward. Yeah, like explained to kids,

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Speaker 2: if your attitude was better, your bones wouldn't be rotting

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Speaker 2: inside you.

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Speaker 6: You know.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's such a hateful ideology and worldview. But like

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Speaker 5: the way people I know people who have said shit

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Speaker 5: like this, and it's like the way they dress it

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Speaker 5: up as like no, it's actually like a really profound

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Speaker 5: like it's the law of attraction, like you want this

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Speaker 5: to be happening to you in some way. The way

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Speaker 5: they dress it up like it makes them more superior.

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Speaker 4: I don't know. Something about that aspect of it really

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Speaker 4: gets me.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting because and I also think there's so much

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Speaker 2: of it that's so locked inside their heads, Like it's

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Speaker 2: even separate from how someone like Maryanne acts because I

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Speaker 2: found an article by a friend of hers called David Kessler,

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Speaker 2: and it was on her webs was he posted on

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Speaker 2: Medium and she had shared it. But this is a

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Speaker 2: guy who knew her. He had operated during the AIDS crisis.

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Speaker 2: He operated a home hospice for AIDS patients, and he

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Speaker 2: claimed quote I saw firsthand how she, Marianne cared for

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Speaker 2: the community. Marianne is not a person who's against medicine.

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Speaker 2: She was the one that sat with dying men with

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Speaker 2: AIDS when there was no cure, and when medications became available.

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Speaker 2: I saw her driving men to the doctor with AIDS.

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Speaker 2: I witnessed her paying for medication for men with AIDS.

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Speaker 2: So this is not a person who is like hateful

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Speaker 2: and callous. This is a person who is able to

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Speaker 2: sit with sick people and then also holding her head.

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Speaker 2: This completely unhinged that if you take it to its

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Speaker 2: logical conclusion, you're saying they brought it on themselves. And

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Speaker 2: that kind of cognitive dissonance is amazing to me. I

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Speaker 2: don't know how you can have that.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I think it is just like the like

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Speaker 3: only able to concentrate on the positive or right. You

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Speaker 3: perceive as a positive. It's just it is like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I mean, you just have to be stupid, is the

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Speaker 3: main thing. Like oh, I don't understand the B side

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Speaker 3: of what I'm saying, because.

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Speaker 2: It is the answer so much more often than like

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Speaker 2: outright evil is like oh, well, you just your brain's

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Speaker 2: not function. You've got like somebody somebody dropped like a

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Speaker 2: wrench in there, and it's.

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Speaker 7: Just like.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I'm like tempting.

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Speaker 5: It's like so tempting to weigh overthink it, and Andrew,

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Speaker 5: I feel like that you just really sum it up.

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Speaker 5: Some people just aren't smart. That's what's going on. Don't

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Speaker 5: overthink it.

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Speaker 2: I think it. I talk about this with our other host,

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Speaker 2: Margaret Kiljoy a lot about how like you can meet

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Speaker 2: people like out in the middle of nowhere who like,

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Speaker 2: if you look at their politics, is they support some

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Speaker 2: political things that are ghoulish, whereas the same people they

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Speaker 2: would vote to hurt, they would like sacrifice for in

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Speaker 2: person because like people are incoherent and not not all

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Speaker 2: that bright, right, Like it comes down to that a

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Speaker 2: lot of the time.

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Speaker 3: No, like there's there there just is no like even

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Speaker 3: second consideration or like like what does this what does

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Speaker 3: what I say mean, Yeah, they're just doing their thing,

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Speaker 3: and like, yeah.

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Speaker 2: This is Kurt Vonnegut was often of the opinion that like,

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Speaker 2: if we were just all a little bit too dumb

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Speaker 2: to keep society and like if we if we all

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Speaker 2: had like twenty percent less like like like got a

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Speaker 2: little bit more brain damage, things would be better because

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Speaker 2: like we it's it's this mix of we're so smart

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Speaker 2: and we're so stupid that causes all the problems. If

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Speaker 2: we were just like dogs, everything would be fine.

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Speaker 3: That's where I come back down to, Well, the problem

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Speaker 3: is just like it only takes one or two slightly

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Speaker 3: smarter evil dogs, yeah, to really function up, which is

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Speaker 3: where we're living now.

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Speaker 2: Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. Anyway, speaking of where we're

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Speaker 2: living now, Mary Ann Williamson was the beginning of Oprah's

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Speaker 2: pivot to alternative medicine and spirituality. As we noted millions.

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Speaker 2: Williamson's particular thing was A Course in Miracles, which is

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Speaker 2: a series of books. She did not write these, but

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Speaker 2: this is like this is her Bible at least at

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Speaker 2: this period of time, and a Course in Miracles is

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Speaker 2: the underpinning one of the underpinning so is We've talked

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Speaker 2: about a few others roots of what becomes like the secret, right,

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Speaker 2: this is a lot of where we get that from.

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Speaker 2: And a course in miracles is like, it's this set

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Speaker 2: of books that claims to integrate psychology and spirituality, which

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Speaker 2: is kind of what scientology also claimed to do. It's

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Speaker 2: it's what all of the good spiritual conmen claimed to do.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 2: The author of this bookman Helen Shukman, claimed that it

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Speaker 2: had been fully dictated to her by Jesus Christ, and

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Speaker 2: she just wrote it down, so like, look, what are

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Speaker 2: my citations Jesus baby like.

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Speaker 5: An, that's such a good thing to claim the ball

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Speaker 5: to be like, oh, like, are you gonna go I'm

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Speaker 5: not wrong?

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Speaker 4: You're saying Jesus is wrong?

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Speaker 2: Jesus. How many times does she get sacrificed on gogtha huh?

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Speaker 2: Em an anna nail she got through your hands? Huh huh. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: don't go to the doctor. Speaking of which, don't go

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Speaker 2: to the doctor. Listen to these ads.

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Speaker 3: I was just gonna say, does an does no? None

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Speaker 3: of these people find it sacrilegious, how stupid Jesus is

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Speaker 3: in these instances?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that he's that Jesus is like saying, medicine

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Speaker 2: doesn't really work. It's all about thinking your way through problems.

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Speaker 2: No nobody ever catches that, well, everyone does except for

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Speaker 2: these people. And it's also, you know, part of if

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Speaker 2: you're because William said, I'm not trying to like exonerate

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Speaker 2: her totally. One of the things I think that you do.

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Speaker 2: If you're like Harry's, you're like, well, I believe this,

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Speaker 2: but the fact that she's saying Jesus wrote this whole thing,

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Speaker 2: that's probably not gonna play on TV. I probably want

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Speaker 2: to keep that quiet, Like, so I'm going to And

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Speaker 2: what what Maryanne does is she's like, all right, well,

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Speaker 2: I think this is base good, but maybe the raw

401
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Speaker 2: stuff is a little bit too uncut for this audience.

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Speaker 2: So she writes her own book about a course in

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Speaker 2: miracles titled A Return to Love. That's basically her taking, like,

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Speaker 2: all right, how do I make this a little bit

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Speaker 2: more palatable. It's the late nineties, right, we gotta gotta

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Speaker 2: we gotta fix this a little bit before we get

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Speaker 2: this out into the audience. You know, I will attempt

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Speaker 2: an abbreviated explanation of a course in Miracles and as

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Speaker 2: a result, and you know, in addition to that, Williamson's

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Speaker 2: book it argues that our home is reality, and reality

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Speaker 2: is the Kingdom of God, and the Kingdom of God

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Speaker 2: is a perfect place. Where as the talking heads remind us,

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Speaker 2: nothing ever happens. Thus, all problems aren't real. Bad things

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Speaker 2: don't happen. There's no real problems. The things that you

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Speaker 2: perceive as problems are the result of you delusionally separating

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Speaker 2: your ego from reality. Our suffering, then, is something we

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Speaker 2: project into the world due to our hallucinatory belief that

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Speaker 2: we have sent.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, all of our faces on the screen are like

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Speaker 5: that when writer trying to do a trigonometry equation meme, what.

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Speaker 2: Are we good? Does that make sense to everybody?

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Speaker 4: Totally check that out?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, that all scants. Yeah, So again this

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Speaker 2: is like, yeah, you can see a lot of the

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Speaker 2: spirit or the secret in this. You know you and

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Speaker 2: the ultimate the result of this is you fix your

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Speaker 2: life by fixing your attitude. Right. I found a good

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Speaker 2: summary of the book and a website titled Circle of Atonement,

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Speaker 2: which I think is probably related to some sort of

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Speaker 2: weird culture and other I don't know, but I'm going

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Speaker 2: to read an excerpt from that because I thought it

432
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:47,439
Speaker 2: was funny. The Holy Spirit's message is that we never sinned,

433
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:51,199
Speaker 2: never changed ourselves. We need only change our minds. The

434
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,840
Speaker 2: guilt and pain produced by the ego was stored in

435
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,720
Speaker 2: an unconscious level of mind, which also contains our call

436
00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:59,639
Speaker 2: for God's love and help. The Holy Spirit's answer to

437
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:01,920
Speaker 2: our guest is that we did not do it, that

438
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:04,879
Speaker 2: we are still as God created us because the separation

439
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 2: never recurred. The journey home is an illusion. We need

440
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:12,680
Speaker 2: not purify ourselves or make sacrifices. Instead, we can wake

441
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,720
Speaker 2: up at any time we choose. The Holy instant is

442
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:18,639
Speaker 2: a moment when this is realized applied, a moment of

443
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,879
Speaker 2: doing nothing. The miracle is a free deliverance from the

444
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 2: imprisonment of the human condition. It is our right because

445
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 2: we never sinned.

446
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I listen, I'm a person that has like an

447
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 3: obnoxious way of speaking. But is it truly not possible

448
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:45,679
Speaker 3: for just some like this just requires some child to

449
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 3: be like what the fuck are you talking about?

450
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:49,560
Speaker 5: Yeah?

451
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,920
Speaker 2: Right, like like little the fuck is this shit? Yeah?

452
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,360
Speaker 2: We need you know, I mean you.

453
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:57,639
Speaker 3: Need a comment section, I guess is what you need.

454
00:23:58,000 --> 00:23:59,480
Speaker 2: The cop I think what we need is a little

455
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,399
Speaker 2: more folk envinement on Bill Burr lately. We need to

456
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,399
Speaker 2: make that a government position where whenever someone starts doing this,

457
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,959
Speaker 2: we have like a roughly a slightly thumb looking man

458
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 2: who comes to be like, what the fuck are you

459
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 2: talking about? Yeah, like, come on, stop this ship.

460
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,120
Speaker 4: He should be he should be from Boston.

461
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 2: He should be from Boston. Ideally who just like when

462
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 2: someone says that, there should be like a yeah, vaguely

463
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,880
Speaker 2: Bostonian guy going nah.

464
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 3: The problem is he should be from Boston, but not like.

465
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,400
Speaker 2: That, not like like that, but not like not.

466
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 3: Like from Boston. If you know what I'm saying.

467
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 2: We need an Avengers initiative of guys who have that

468
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:43,400
Speaker 2: remarkable mix of like physiognomy and accent that people will

469
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 2: be like, oh, yeah, that does sound kind of silly,

470
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:47,960
Speaker 2: Like when he says it's silly, I actually, yeah, maybe

471
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:48,920
Speaker 2: that is kind of stupid.

472
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh my god, it's not yeah, materially dumber than anything.

473
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:57,200
Speaker 3: Elon Musk tweets.

474
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,360
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely not. But I think it leads us there.

475
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 2: In part and what of yes, when you get a

476
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 2: lot of shit, Because this is Janis Peck's book, This

477
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 2: is a lot of When you get a lot of

478
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 2: like more left wing critiques of OPRAH, one of the

479
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 2: running themes is like the whole The overriding message of

480
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 2: a lot of her show is problems have are all problems.

481
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,399
Speaker 2: There's like, societal problems are individual problems, and they have

482
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 2: deeply individualistic solutions. And instead of like fixing systems, the

483
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 2: answer comes down more down to fixing yourself and your

484
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:33,919
Speaker 2: individual attitude. And that can be very problematic, verging on solipsistic.

485
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,119
Speaker 2: Right when we get into this era, it's like nothing

486
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 2: is the problems aren't real, and if I can make

487
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:43,199
Speaker 2: myself okay with them, then I don't even need to

488
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 2: think about the other people who are suffering because the

489
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 2: problems aren't real. You know, this is a very narcissistic

490
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:51,879
Speaker 2: and dangerous way to think about the world.

491
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,679
Speaker 5: I can see how it functions as a pretty useful

492
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 5: like political and social ideology. Y, yes.

493
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 2: It's great for capitalists them like, yeah, if this is

494
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 2: your attitude, once you get a nice house, climate change

495
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 2: is no longer a problem. The Pacific palisades are a paradise. Hmmm,

496
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 2: some smells odd on the air. Let me look at the.

497
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 3: Way, you know, your mind palace is your paradise.

498
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 2: Right right. Yeah, and when you're living in a twenty

499
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 2: four thousand dollars a night hotel, because again the palisades

500
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,200
Speaker 2: burned down, your mind palace is still there for you.

501
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 2: You know, that's the beauty. Ellie doesn't have a homelessness problem.

502
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 2: We just need more mind palace palaces.

503
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 6: You know.

504
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,399
Speaker 3: This is also, by the way, more or less the

505
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 3: pitch from the bad guys in the Matrix.

506
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 4: It kind of is.

507
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:42,159
Speaker 2: Yes, also that like literally you are you are like

508
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 2: the Matrix. But but no, this is actually how how religio,

509
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 2: how philosophy works, and religion works.

510
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, it's just like.

511
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,360
Speaker 2: These are all that guy in the first Matrix movie

512
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 2: He's like, look, man, the steak tastes good. I don't

513
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:55,639
Speaker 2: know what to tell you.

514
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is the This is like the parable of

515
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 3: the Cave. People just really jones in for some more cave.

516
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, hey, talking about that is what I took

517
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,399
Speaker 2: out of the allegory of the cave. Is like, cave's

518
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 2: pretty cool, cave like shadows I love. Can you know?

519
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 2: The new season of Severance starts tonight, so I'm gonna

520
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 2: be sitting and watching some cave shadows. Baby, I'm good,

521
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 2: I'm ready give me some Adam Scott. So, thanks to

522
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:25,199
Speaker 2: Williamson's advocacy and Oprah's platform, of course, in Miracles went

523
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 2: from fringe, it was getting more popular. I will say this,

524
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 2: it didn't entirely gain its popularity, but Oprah is a

525
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:33,239
Speaker 2: large part of the fact that it sells more than

526
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 2: two million copies. And Oprah doesn't just plug that book

527
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,440
Speaker 2: and her friend mary Anne's book. She and mary Anne

528
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 2: sit down and they lay out in this and again,

529
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,160
Speaker 2: the point of this episode is Oprah announcing her show

530
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 2: is pivoting from being about bad things and sad stuff

531
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:55,440
Speaker 2: to being about you know, empowerment and beauty. Right quote

532
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 2: during the hour, this is Jenny's peck. During the hour,

533
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,679
Speaker 2: the two women identified various social problems crime, drug addiction,

534
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 2: TV violence, war, child abuse, prejudice as the price we

535
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 2: pay for ignoring our souls. Born of denial, this collective,

536
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:14,679
Speaker 2: neglective soul had produced a diseased and dysfunctional society. The

537
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 2: antidote Williamson proposed was a shift in the paradigm on

538
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:22,440
Speaker 2: the planet to activate an amazing healing force, the spirit

539
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 2: of divine consciousness. Which is within our souls. Well. She

540
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 2: prescribed various steps towards planetary healing, from praying to participating

541
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 2: in support groups. All were predicated on replacing negative thoughts

542
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 2: with positive ones, because our thoughts determine the experiences of

543
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 2: our lives.

544
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 3: I will just point out that if you substitute the

545
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 3: word urge tree in there a few times, this is

546
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 3: basically just elden ring.

547
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Well, Williamson has a writing credit on that.

548
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 2: It was her and George R. Martin really like banging

549
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 2: it out, and we know that's a lie. That's a

550
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 2: life story. That's almost credible.

551
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 5: You said it in a way I truly for a

552
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 5: second was like, I don't know if he's making a

553
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 5: joker not.

554
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 2: I would sit and listen to George R. R. Martin and

555
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 2: Mary Anne Williamson invent religion.

556
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 3: Oh my god.

557
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 2: So Oprah's pivot to Guru had begun. Over the coming

558
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 2: years and indeed decades, she would help introduce millions of

559
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 2: Americans to New Age thinkers like Eckert Toll, whose books

560
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 2: The Power of Now and a New Earth represent what

561
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 2: Slate writer Kurt Anderson described as a successful crusade against

562
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 2: reason itself. Here's one of Toll's most favorite quotes. Thinking

563
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,959
Speaker 2: has become a disease. Disease happens when things get out

564
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 2: of balance. For example, there's nothing wrong with cells dividing

565
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 2: and multiplying in the body. But when this process continues

566
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 2: in disregard of the total organism, cells proliferate, and we

567
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 2: have disease. And Toll's argument here is that, like, overthinking

568
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 2: is a societal epidemic, and a lot of our suffering

569
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 2: as a species is because we don't coast enough on

570
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 2: vibes go with the flow more often. Compulsive thinking has

571
00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 2: become a collective disease. Your whole sense of who you

572
00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 2: are has been derived from mind activity. And like, I

573
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 2: think there's actually more than a little bit of move

574
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 2: fast and break things downstream of Toll. I don't think

575
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 2: there's zero percent of of of that there, but more

576
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 2: than that. Oprah's embrace of this guy represents a major

577
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 2: salient in the war against reason, which, if you hadn't

578
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 2: checked recently, reason is losing. Yeah, yeah, and this is

579
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,719
Speaker 2: the reason we start talking. It's reasons may be lost.

580
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 2: YEA reason is at least like Great Britain on the

581
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 2: first day of the Battle of Britain. You know France

582
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 2: has has surrendered. I don't know what the French equivalent

583
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 2: of reason is.

584
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 6: Uh.

585
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 2: And yeah, we're watching those Stukas rained down on fucking London.

586
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 3: It's not good.

587
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 2: But what are you gonna do? I don't know. Yeah,

588
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 2: I actually have no idea.

589
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 4: Andrew, don't worry, don't think so much.

590
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 2: Don't think so much. Why am I thinking all this time?

591
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 2: Let's talk about Deepak Chopra. He is another gift that

592
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 2: Oprah gave the world, and his career was in some

593
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 2: ways a mirror of doctor Oz and honestly a less

594
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 2: toxic one. Chopra starts out as a well regarded into

595
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 2: chronologist until he quits that to become a guru to

596
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 2: the kind of people who embrace new spiritualities. Based on

597
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:24,959
Speaker 2: airport bestsellers, Chopra is the kind of guy who peddles

598
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 2: stuff that seems well meaning and even harmless if you

599
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 2: don't look too deeply into what he's saying. The harm

600
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 2: largely comes from the fact that accepting his principles means

601
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 2: embracing lies about how the world works and denying basic science.

602
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 2: As doctor Chris Concilvio writes, he preaches the body as

603
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 2: made of a quantum energy, and there exists a dynamic

604
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 2: consciousness where the mind, body, and spirit are interwoven and

605
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 2: interconnected by an energy force that transcends matter and physical reality. Now,

606
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,719
Speaker 2: because of this, Chopra often advises his followers that modern

607
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 2: medicine is useless or feudile, are fundamentally flawed in ways

608
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 2: that make it less reliable than in racing pseudoscience. Here's

609
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 2: a quote I found from an article on Chopra that

610
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 2: he wrote for his own website titled why doctors Can't

611
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 2: make You Well? What the public and most doctors hasn't

612
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 2: found out is that the cause of illness is becoming

613
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 2: more and more murky. It's not just germs and genes.

614
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 2: The germ theory of disease held sway for over a

615
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 2: century after the discovery of microbes and the arrival of

616
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 2: antibiotics to combat them. Gene therapy, long promise is the

617
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 2: answer to almost any disease, hasn't actually achieved much success,

618
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 2: although in certain cases, such as cancers that are caused

619
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 2: by a simple genetic mutation, targeted drug therapies have been successful.

620
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 2: The bigger picture is that genetics has led us into

621
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 2: a much more complicated view of the disease process, so

622
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 2: complicated that it is beyond the skill of doctors. Too

623
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 2: many factors are at work when illness arises, and the

624
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 2: disease model itself sometimes breaks down theories wrong. Idpac Chopra

625
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 2: can explain it. Your brain's not thinking good enough now.

626
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 3: I mean, but you know, I guess I feel like

627
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 3: someone should just say that's not true.

628
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 2: His last that's not how it is, Like antibiotics are great.

629
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 3: Uh, the model doesn't break down.

630
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 2: The model doesn't break down, bringing in gene therapy along,

631
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 2: like it's one of those things where's like, okay, well,

632
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 2: depending on what you mean by gene therapy. Sure, there's

633
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 2: a lot of shit that, like people talked about in

634
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 2: sci fi that hasn't happened, but that has nothing to

635
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 2: do with germ theory, right, Like germ theory is a

636
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 2: very robust model. Choper writes a line he did He

637
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 2: doesn't generally outright say don't take your meds. But the

638
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 2: conclusion you're led to from a lot of his writing

639
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 2: is don't take your meds. That whole article I just

640
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 2: quoted from is how doctors don't understand what causes schizophrenia,

641
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 2: and I think the conclusion that you're supposed to be

642
00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 2: led to is maybe don't take those antipsychotics. Again, Chopra

643
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 2: doesn't say this legally. I am not accusing him of

644
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 2: saying this. I'm just saying I think a lot of

645
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 2: people reading that who are like, should I take my antipsychotics?

646
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:12,359
Speaker 2: Might take from that article maybe I won't.

647
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 4: But I also saying it.

648
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:15,839
Speaker 2: He's not saying it right.

649
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:20,440
Speaker 3: It's also just like, you know, not like just because

650
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 3: like there isn't a full understanding of schizophrenia you can

651
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,840
Speaker 3: really trust that chemotherapity, vaccine, et cetera.

652
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, well, and there's always that real thing, which

653
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 2: is that like yeah, man, there's actually a shitload of

654
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,799
Speaker 2: problems to the modern medicine tape, like treats and talks

655
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:43,359
Speaker 2: about schizophrenia. Absolutely, you don't know anything about this, Yeah yeah,

656
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 2: like you're not helping.

657
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 3: Yeah. His hitches that I'm not burdened with all this

658
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 3: knowledge and history of the process so I have a

659
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 3: clearer insight into how to fix things.

660
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah. Yeah.

661
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 5: Really annoys me about this is how they're so good

662
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,279
Speaker 5: at taking that one kind of like true thread, which

663
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:06,320
Speaker 5: is like plenty of people feel unheard by the medical space,

664
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 5: and like, you know, they they feel like their their

665
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:12,320
Speaker 5: symptoms or whatever their illnesses are not being properly treated.

666
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 5: And so I can see how this is so tempting

667
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 5: to be like, oh, well, what do they know about anything?

668
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 4: Why should I trust any of this? They're all hucksters.

669
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,320
Speaker 5: Like it's so it's such a callous but tempting way

670
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 5: of getting people walking people toward this very dangerous line

671
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 5: of thinking.

672
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:28,719
Speaker 4: Does that make sense?

673
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, I think that absolutely does. I think

674
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 2: you hit it on the head. So Dpak has over

675
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:37,759
Speaker 2: the years claimed that human aging can be reversed by

676
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 2: pure force of thought. He is as health law and

677
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 2: science professor Timothy Caulfield argues, a profit of alternative medicine

678
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 2: and the Great de Educator. Choper's book sold millions and

679
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 2: millions of copies after he was featured as a guest

680
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 2: on Winfrey's show.

681
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 4: And I don't know that.

682
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 2: I'd say he has no career without her, that's too much.

683
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 2: But he has less of one, right, Like he's a

684
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 2: lot less of a guy without Oprah. Without Chopra, we

685
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 2: probably don't get shit like the bleach drinking church, people

686
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 2: taking ivermectin to cure their cancer, and a decent chunk

687
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 2: of the anti VAXX movement, which we'll be talking about

688
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:12,960
Speaker 2: later because Oprah's got some real involvement there and a

689
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:16,320
Speaker 2: friend of the pod Jenny McCarthy. Now, one of the

690
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 2: most frustrating things about Oprah in this time period after

691
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,720
Speaker 2: her pivot away from trash TV is in the mid nineties,

692
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 2: is that in the middle of all of this new

693
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 2: age WU that she is putting out and clotting our

694
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 2: national arteries with which leads to the fatal stroke we're

695
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 2: going to spend the rest of our lives living in.

696
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 2: She is also like she's right about some important things,

697
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 2: but even when she's right about them, the kind of

698
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 2: the lack of rigor to the way she talks about

699
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,839
Speaker 2: stuff means that she winds up wrong about them. And

700
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 2: to make that makes sense, I'm going to talk about

701
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 2: Oprah's war with the beef industry because this is a

702
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 2: key moment in oprah history. In April of nineteen ninety six,

703
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 2: Oprah dedicated a segment of her show to mad cow

704
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,840
Speaker 2: disease and brought on an animal rights activist in Vegetarian

705
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:01,760
Speaker 2: named Howard Lyman. The UK had just had a major

706
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 2: mad cow outbreak and had to cold vast numbers of animals,

707
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 2: and Lyman predicted that the same thing would soon befall

708
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 2: the US beef supply. He talked about what happens when

709
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 2: humans catch mad cow from tat to meat and the

710
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:15,760
Speaker 2: horrific deaths that follow. Oprah declared the conversation quote stopped

711
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 2: me cold from eating another burger. Now, this has a

712
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:21,799
Speaker 2: massive impact on the beef industry, right, and they're going

713
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 2: to sue her over this because there's some evidence that

714
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:27,440
Speaker 2: like millions of dollars in beef sales are like the

715
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 2: price of the value of beef drops significantly because of

716
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 2: Oprah talking about mad cow this way and the broader thing,

717
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,759
Speaker 2: which is that like our meat, Like, there's a lot

718
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 2: of a lot of the stuff that's gross and inhumane

719
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 2: and climactically awful about our addiction to beef and the

720
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 2: way this industry functions, and it deserves criticism. The problem

721
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 2: is that the specific criticism Oprah is publishing and focusing

722
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 2: on his mad cow disease and the US beef industry

723
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 2: really doesn't deserve that. Right. Lyman's prediction that like, we're

724
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:01,880
Speaker 2: going to have a UK style mad cow outbreak in

725
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 2: the US hasn't come to pass, and in fact, in

726
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 2: the decades since he said this, the US has had

727
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 2: six confirmed cases of mad cow disease, the first in

728
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 2: two thousand and three and the most recent in twenty

729
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:15,240
Speaker 2: twenty three, and these were all isolated and caught fairly quickly.

730
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:17,360
Speaker 2: Preventing the spread of mad cow with something in the

731
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 2: US beef industry has proved very good at particularly considering

732
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,319
Speaker 2: the fact that the UK and France, which normally have

733
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 2: much more effective regulatory states, have had much larger problems

734
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:31,239
Speaker 2: with this. Now, that doesn't mean again that we're immune from,

735
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 2: for example, even other prion diseases. Right. The spread of

736
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 2: preon diseases due to farmed meat is a massively important

737
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 2: story in the US, one with some potentially apocalyptic undertones. Right.

738
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 2: For example, we have this massive problem in a lot

739
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 2: of the like the Great Lakes region in the East Coast,

740
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 2: with chronic wasting disease, which is basically mad cow for deer,

741
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 2: which number one gets a number of hunters killed, but

742
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 2: also deer spread these like poisoned prions around in the

743
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 2: soil and they don't really die, and there's like a

744
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 2: lot of very worrying problems due to this, and it

745
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 2: all got started almost certainly because people were trying to

746
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 2: farm venison, and you know, these all of these diseases

747
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 2: result when you've got like we've got a bunch of

748
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 2: animals we're trying to farm at scale, and their feed

749
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:18,439
Speaker 2: has pieces of their own spinal cords in it, right

750
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 2: of like of their fellow animals, right like that. That's

751
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 2: the I'm simplifying a lot of stuff. But like what

752
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 2: I'm saying is meat as an industry has a lot

753
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:32,239
Speaker 2: of horrible problems that have some potentially near apocalyptic outcomes

754
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 2: for our society. But the specific thing Oprah has is

755
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 2: really going after in this episode isn't a big problem

756
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:43,480
Speaker 2: for the beef industry, and as a result, they're going

757
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 2: to sue her. Right, So, Texas is one of a

758
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 2: dozen states with what's called a veggie libel law, which

759
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 2: is a law that makes a person liable if they

760
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 2: make liberalist statements about food safety. Representatives of the cattle

761
00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:00,160
Speaker 2: industry complained to Texas Agricultural Commissioner Rick Perry, who a

762
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:03,759
Speaker 2: letter to the state attorney general complaining the economic livelihood

763
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:05,240
Speaker 2: of our beef producers is at stake.

764
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:05,719
Speaker 6: Now.

765
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 2: The reality of the situation is that again Oprah has

766
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 2: exaggerated the risk of mad cow disease in the US,

767
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 2: but not in a way that a reasonable person would

768
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:15,799
Speaker 2: call libelis I've just pointed out that she was kind

769
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:18,280
Speaker 2: of wrong for this to be the focus when talking

770
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 2: about bad aspects of the beef industry. But like when

771
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 2: you're seeing mad cowgo crazy in the UK, being like,

772
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 2: it's probably a problem, that's not libel, right, that's speculative

773
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:32,240
Speaker 2: in a way, that's inaccurate, but it's not really libel.

774
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 2: The beef magnates disagreed, and they can considered Oprah enemy

775
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:38,399
Speaker 2: number one and saw the overall case as a way

776
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:41,320
Speaker 2: to stop anyone from talking badly about health and safety

777
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 2: practices within the beef industry. Oprah, for her part, and

778
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:46,280
Speaker 2: this is where I give her a lot of credit,

779
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 2: refuses to budge or settle, and so she is like,

780
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:51,799
Speaker 2: I'm not going to settle this case. I'm not going

781
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:55,680
Speaker 2: to retract or apologize. Let's go to court, motherfuckers. And

782
00:40:55,760 --> 00:41:00,400
Speaker 2: so this turns into a showdown in fucking Amarilla, Texas

783
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 2: or shit is it? Abilene, I wrote Amarilla, but I

784
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:06,799
Speaker 2: think it might be Abilene. Look it up, folks. Maybe

785
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 2: I got that one wrong. I'll say both. Fuck it.

786
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:12,479
Speaker 2: So she has to go to this small town that's

787
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 2: like a massive beef center in Texas, right, and a

788
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 2: normal person would have been like, well, all right, I've

789
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:20,399
Speaker 2: got to be in court for several weeks. I guess

790
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 2: we'll put the show on hiatus. Right. Obviously, I'm not

791
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 2: gonna fly my entire crew down to this show, to

792
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:29,440
Speaker 2: this town in Texas and just film the opra runfree

793
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:33,279
Speaker 2: show from there, which is exactly what she does. So

794
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 2: here's the Texas Tribune. Rather than putting your show on

795
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 2: hiatus for a week, she brought it with her and

796
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 2: framed parts of it as an homage to the city

797
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 2: and state. She suddenly found herself in Winfrey Donda cowboy

798
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:46,800
Speaker 2: hat and drew cheers by occasionally mimicking a Texas accent.

799
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 2: Texas born act actor Patrick Swayze came on and taught

800
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:52,400
Speaker 2: her how to two step. So you're on trial by

801
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 2: day and you're doing the show by night. Whenfrey recalled

802
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 2: in twenty twelve, it was stressful. It was challenging to

803
00:41:57,440 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 2: be on trial. May I just say it's one of

804
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:02,319
Speaker 2: the worst experience says of anybody's life. A gag order

805
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:04,719
Speaker 2: prevented Winfrey from talking about the case on her show,

806
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 2: which she turned into a running joke. We're down here

807
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:10,800
Speaker 2: in Amarilla, y'all know why, she said during one segment,

808
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 2: drawing laughs from the audience. Large crowd showed up both

809
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 2: for winfrey show and outside the courtroom to catch a

810
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 2: glimpse of her Amilla Loves Oprah t shirts. She didn't

811
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:22,239
Speaker 2: testify until the latter part of the case, but by

812
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 2: the time she got on the stand, the town loved her.

813
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 2: Babcock said, and again, everyone on this jury has ties

814
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:32,760
Speaker 2: to the beef industry, and they vote unanimously to clear Oprah.

815
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 2: That's how much juice this lady has.

816
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 5: I know we're here to talk about her as a bastard,

817
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:39,759
Speaker 5: but you gotta love that.

818
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 4: Like that is cool. That's pretty cool shit.

819
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wish she had gone to war over a

820
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 2: better criticism of the beef industry, but that is pretty cool.

821
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:51,279
Speaker 8: You know.

822
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 2: You have to there's a lesson in there in terms

823
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:57,839
Speaker 2: of like how you deal with these like corporations trying

824
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 2: to stifle speech, which was like, all right, motherfucker, like,

825
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:03,800
Speaker 2: let's lean into it. I will get this whole town

826
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:04,960
Speaker 2: on my side.

827
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 5: She's out of curiosity, though, did any of the people

828
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 5: that she called like satanist, baby rapist, did they ever

829
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 5: see her?

830
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:12,880
Speaker 4: Does that of curiosity?

831
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 5: No? No, no, no no.

832
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:16,759
Speaker 2: They don't have beef industry money for one thing. They're

833
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 2: all bankrupted fighting the satan lawsuits. Bridges like these people

834
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 2: owned a daycare. So Oprah Declaire's victory. Beef industry representatives

835
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 2: to Claire Victory too, stating that the cost of the

836
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 2: case would make other media figures more careful about spreading

837
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 2: this information. Americans largely went back to ignoring the harms

838
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 2: of our addiction to cheap red meat, and the only

839
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:43,520
Speaker 2: real long term consequence to all this was that Oprah

840
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:47,279
Speaker 2: befriended a psychologist that she'd hired on as a jury consultant,

841
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:54,360
Speaker 2: Doctor Phil McGraw. Ooo again, folks, for an episode on

842
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 2: bast Dream. We're not going to talk about doctor Phil

843
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 2: or doctor osin these episodes because we've done two parters

844
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:01,480
Speaker 2: on both of them. Check those out if you want

845
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:05,720
Speaker 2: to know why those guys suck. But this ends badly

846
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:10,240
Speaker 2: is what I'll say, you know what else ends badly, Sophie,

847
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:15,840
Speaker 2: Oh my god, your life. If you don't buy the

848
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 2: products and services that are advertised on this podcast. You know,

849
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:21,400
Speaker 2: it's like a chain letter, right, If you buy the

850
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:24,200
Speaker 2: first thing that comes on, you'll have a happy life.

851
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 2: You know, when you die, your whole family will be

852
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:29,120
Speaker 2: around you. There will be no pain. You'll hear you'll

853
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:32,319
Speaker 2: hear the trumpet of Saint Peter. Is it he him?

854
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:35,319
Speaker 2: Then as a trumpet? You'll hear some fucking Trumpet'll be good,

855
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:43,640
Speaker 2: You'll get to have it. It'll be great, and we're back.

856
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:46,239
Speaker 1: It's St. Gabriel and is.

857
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 2: It Saint Gabriel?

858
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 4: Cecilia?

859
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:53,960
Speaker 2: A lot of them got trumpets? How am I supposed to?

860
00:44:54,040 --> 00:45:00,279
Speaker 4: It's like a SKA band up there, you know, lots

861
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:00,760
Speaker 4: of true.

862
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 2: God's sacred genre. Okay. The fact that Oprah's show was

863
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 2: now a mix of spiritual gurus and crusades against various

864
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:12,080
Speaker 2: causes celeb did not mean that Oprah completely hit excised

865
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 2: the smut. Despite her claim to have left trash TV behind,

866
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:18,279
Speaker 2: she knew that any topic involving teen pregnancy, teen drug use,

867
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 2: child abduction, et cetera got views her audience of largely

868
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:24,799
Speaker 2: middle class moms tuned in when Oprah tur told them

869
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 2: their kids were in danger. The clearest example of this

870
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:31,239
Speaker 2: comes from two thousand and three, when Oprah Winfrey introduced

871
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:34,239
Speaker 2: the concept of Bridget so happy to be talking about

872
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 2: this rainbow parties?

873
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 3: Got it?

874
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 4: You get a rainbow party?

875
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:40,120
Speaker 2: You get it?

876
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 4: Well, I shouldn't phrase it that way.

877
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:45,360
Speaker 5: Young Bridget fucking wishes no one.

878
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:48,880
Speaker 2: Gets a rainbow party. That's actually the reality of the situation.

879
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 2: I am sure we've got our gen z listeners and

880
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:54,759
Speaker 2: our old people listeners. Those are the two other kinds

881
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:58,359
Speaker 2: of people behind normal people. US millennials are all like,

882
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 2: the fuck are they talking about? Rainbow party? Is this

883
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:06,920
Speaker 2: somebody like LGBT thing? No, it's not. So this was

884
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:09,680
Speaker 2: yet another moral panic, and it's the first moral panic

885
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:12,239
Speaker 2: that we're talking about in the series that I was

886
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:14,440
Speaker 2: around four as a perfectly I'm a should be the

887
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:16,840
Speaker 2: same mistrue of you like this was a moral panic

888
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:21,319
Speaker 2: about my generation, my peers, and I that I was

889
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 2: old enough to be like, what the fuck are you

890
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:28,719
Speaker 2: talking about? So in order to introduce this concept, this

891
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:31,759
Speaker 2: comes up on The Oprah Winfrey Show for the first

892
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:35,239
Speaker 2: time during a discussion between Oprah, Oprah and Michelle Burford.

893
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 2: Burford is a journalist at OH Magazine. Oprah had launched

894
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:41,719
Speaker 2: a magazine like ninety nine or something like, after her

895
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 2: show has made its big pivot. They launched this magazine,

896
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 2: which is the number one women's magazine basically for the

897
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:49,720
Speaker 2: whole time that it's in publication. They don't stop publishing

898
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 2: till twenty twenty. And Burford has just finished some hard

899
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 2: hitting research on the millennials, you know, our generation, and

900
00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:01,600
Speaker 2: she's reading oprah new slang term for sex and that

901
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:04,000
Speaker 2: our generation has cooked up. And again this is two

902
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:07,040
Speaker 2: thousand and three, so everybody prepared to take some notes.

903
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:10,439
Speaker 1: Also, just the selection for more videos.

904
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:13,320
Speaker 2: It's so fascinating stuff, fascinating stuff.

905
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:15,920
Speaker 1: What is happening to Elmo?

906
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:17,359
Speaker 5: Oh my god?

907
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:18,319
Speaker 6: Yeah?

908
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 2: The Elmo thing is I think that's from the New

909
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:24,800
Speaker 2: Dune show. And that's clearly someone playing Matt Gates on SNL.

910
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:27,719
Speaker 2: Just because of how uncomfortable that woman looks, I can

911
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:30,400
Speaker 2: tell it's supposed to be Matt Gates anyway.

912
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 4: Okay, so I definitely what is a salad.

913
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 6: Top salad is get ready hold on to your underwear

914
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:40,880
Speaker 6: for this one. Oral anal sex. So oral sex to

915
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:43,239
Speaker 6: the anus is what toss Galad is.

916
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:49,200
Speaker 4: My mom is an oral sex party.

917
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:52,640
Speaker 6: It's a gathering where oral sex is performed and rainbow

918
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:55,399
Speaker 6: comes from all of the girls put on lipstick and

919
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:58,360
Speaker 6: each one puts her mouth around the penis of the

920
00:47:58,400 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 6: gentleman or gentlemen.

921
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:02,320
Speaker 4: Who are there to receive favors.

922
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:06,200
Speaker 6: And another horrified MoMA, hence the term rainbow.

923
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:12,480
Speaker 4: Oh fuck. I remember this like it was yesterday.

924
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:15,319
Speaker 5: When I said that when my mom would sit me

925
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:17,480
Speaker 5: down after school and like it was time for us

926
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:18,719
Speaker 5: to have like a serious.

927
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 4: Talk about something.

928
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:21,279
Speaker 5: I always knew it had been on Oprah, And I

929
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:25,040
Speaker 5: remember very clearly this episode because, as I said, I

930
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:26,800
Speaker 5: went to Catholic school. I went to all girl school.

931
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:29,160
Speaker 5: I was the biggest nerd in the world. I was

932
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:32,360
Speaker 5: not having sex with anybody. But my mom is sitting

933
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:35,279
Speaker 5: me down and being like, is this a thing that's

934
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:36,480
Speaker 5: happening at school?

935
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:40,239
Speaker 4: I was like the way the to the fiction.

936
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:43,760
Speaker 5: That like young people were doing things like rainbow parties.

937
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 4: It just yeah, it just really.

938
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:48,120
Speaker 5: Is burned in my mind that like Oprah had really

939
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:50,319
Speaker 5: put a fantasy world in the head of people like

940
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:50,759
Speaker 5: my mom.

941
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:55,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, it's such a fucking absolute. It's such a

942
00:48:55,880 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 2: fucking absolute like fantasy, because like I remember seeing this

943
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:03,560
Speaker 2: as like a fifteen year old and going, no, we're not,

944
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:08,360
Speaker 2: like I'm not look fifteen year old Robert not exactly

945
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:10,839
Speaker 2: doing a lot of sex parties. But also I knew

946
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:13,480
Speaker 2: enough about my generation to that like, neither were basically

947
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 2: anyone else at my school. Right, there were some kids

948
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:18,160
Speaker 2: having sex, but there weren't rainbow parties.

949
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:21,279
Speaker 5: Like people were like dry humping behind the wal mart

950
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:21,879
Speaker 5: and like.

951
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:24,759
Speaker 4: That might hit like it wasn't like sex parties.

952
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:28,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, everybody's got a different lipstick, and you compare the

953
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:32,760
Speaker 2: rainbows on you dick, what like where is it happening?

954
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:35,360
Speaker 4: Shades many questions.

955
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:38,279
Speaker 8: My mom asked me about this too. Yeah that was

956
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:38,799
Speaker 8: a weird thing.

957
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:40,919
Speaker 1: And I went and I was like, I was like, mom,

958
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:42,720
Speaker 1: look at me, look.

959
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:47,360
Speaker 4: At these things. I have it down to me.

960
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:50,319
Speaker 2: You should always think this way whenever there's like a

961
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:53,560
Speaker 2: this is the new dangerous sex thing the kids are doing.

962
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 2: Does it sound like something you and your peers might

963
00:49:57,160 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 2: have done as fifteen year olds or does it sound

964
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:02,879
Speaker 2: like something an adult pervert invented? Because it made them

965
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:04,160
Speaker 2: Because they're sick, right.

966
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:07,719
Speaker 3: I was going to say, horror invented this, truly needs

967
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:08,440
Speaker 3: to go to jail.

968
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:14,960
Speaker 2: Yes, I was like, this is marketing child pornography. That's

969
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 2: what you don't.

970
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:19,239
Speaker 8: Well, they did look forward to this on that teen

971
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:21,800
Speaker 8: show to Grass even instead of it on the dicks.

972
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:25,160
Speaker 8: It was like rainbow bracelets. My mom asked me about

973
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:25,760
Speaker 8: that also.

974
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:27,239
Speaker 4: That was another thing.

975
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:28,799
Speaker 5: I don't think it was on Oprah, But if you

976
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:31,520
Speaker 5: wore like those jelly bracelets, it was, oh, if you

977
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:38,360
Speaker 5: wear a brown one, Yeah, it was that nobody.

978
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:40,960
Speaker 2: But Sophie, now that you brought up to Grassy, I

979
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:44,200
Speaker 2: think I'm through the looking glass here because look, clearly

980
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 2: this isn't a real thing. It was invented by a

981
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:51,319
Speaker 2: pedophile who was on to Grassy, famous pedophile Drake. Oh,

982
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 2: we're through the looking glass.

983
00:50:53,760 --> 00:51:00,920
Speaker 8: Papers locked down. That man is suing people, come on,

984
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:05,160
Speaker 8: he'sing for defamation for being called a pedophile.

985
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:08,440
Speaker 2: But Sir, I feel like the best case scenario here

986
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:10,560
Speaker 2: is that Kendrick and I become good friends and no

987
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:13,400
Speaker 2: one ever tells him that I mistook him from Maclamore once.

988
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:14,239
Speaker 4: Robert I.

989
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:19,040
Speaker 2: Robert I swore I don't know who people are like,

990
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:21,760
Speaker 2: not by looks or songs. I just thought people.

991
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:25,200
Speaker 4: I don't know where people are. Take that secret to Margaret.

992
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:30,560
Speaker 4: It's the most angry I've ever been at.

993
00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:34,160
Speaker 2: The Internet's going to light on. I want to get

994
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:35,720
Speaker 2: off Scott free now.

995
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:38,399
Speaker 1: And then we all made a pack in my car.

996
00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:40,520
Speaker 2: But we would never repeat this because it.

997
00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:41,919
Speaker 4: Was too honest to man.

998
00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:44,920
Speaker 2: Sophie, I can't. I'm like George Washington, this is my

999
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:48,160
Speaker 2: cherry Tree moment. I cannot tell a lie. I don't

1000
00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:49,319
Speaker 2: know who people are.

1001
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 4: Yes, but Jesus Robert.

1002
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:56,719
Speaker 2: It's okay. I listened to a Kendrick Lamar song after that.

1003
00:51:57,440 --> 00:51:59,200
Speaker 4: I think you were in my car.

1004
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:03,200
Speaker 2: I was pretty pretty good. Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry. Macklamore's not.

1005
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:08,839
Speaker 2: I made a horrible mistake. Forgive me, don't forgive Drake. Look,

1006
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:11,520
Speaker 2: I'm trying to deflect here, right, I'm doing the Trump thing,

1007
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:15,239
Speaker 2: you know, like, ignore my sins, focus on Drake and

1008
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:17,680
Speaker 2: the Rainbow parties. Let's blame him for that.

1009
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:18,960
Speaker 8: The disappointments back.

1010
00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:24,640
Speaker 2: I don't know who people are. Look, it's gonna be

1011
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 2: hard to get back on track after this. Later in

1012
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:30,480
Speaker 2: that interview, Oprah asks Burford if Rainbow parties are common,

1013
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:33,400
Speaker 2: and Maria replied, among the fifty girls I talked to,

1014
00:52:33,880 --> 00:52:36,759
Speaker 2: this was pervasive. And here's a quick tip on like

1015
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:39,680
Speaker 2: knowing if a journalist is not a good journalist. A

1016
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:43,279
Speaker 2: good journalist if they had talked to fifty girls would

1017
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:47,359
Speaker 2: say this number of them said that they had attended

1018
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:50,680
Speaker 2: a rainbow party, versus this number of them said they

1019
00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:55,000
Speaker 2: had heard of a rainbow party. That starts to give

1020
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:58,560
Speaker 2: you some useful data as to like, oh, actually thirty

1021
00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:01,040
Speaker 2: of them said they'd heard of this. None of them

1022
00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:04,279
Speaker 2: have been to one. Maybe they're not real.

1023
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:07,040
Speaker 3: Like that.

1024
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:09,480
Speaker 2: That would be journalism, right, that's the start of it,

1025
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:11,600
Speaker 2: at least you know. Burford says of the fifty girls

1026
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:15,440
Speaker 2: I talked to, quote unquote, this was pervasive. Now I'll

1027
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:18,120
Speaker 2: say this right now. Burford either made all that shit

1028
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:20,040
Speaker 2: up because she knew Oprah would love it, or some

1029
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:22,799
Speaker 2: teenage girls were paying a prank on her. A couple

1030
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:26,560
Speaker 2: of researchers, Joel Best and Kathleen Boggle, actually looked into

1031
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:29,040
Speaker 2: where this rumor started, and they traced it to a

1032
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:32,840
Speaker 2: book called Epidemic How Teen Sex Is Killing Our Kids

1033
00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:35,120
Speaker 2: by Meg Meeker. And if you want to know how hack.

1034
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:38,600
Speaker 2: You're at this book? Was are there still kids? Sylvie

1035
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:42,840
Speaker 2: checks note, Let's let's do a quick fact check. Okay,

1036
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:45,839
Speaker 2: it didn't. We're good. Good news, everybody, teen sex didn't

1037
00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:46,520
Speaker 2: kill all the kids.

1038
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:49,440
Speaker 3: Hey, listen, At least we do have a name for

1039
00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:58,000
Speaker 3: the straight up fucking pedophile enabler at minimum.

1040
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:59,200
Speaker 2: Meg Meeker. Oh, she's great. She is a right wing

1041
00:53:59,239 --> 00:54:01,759
Speaker 2: pediatrician who has spent the last twenty years profiting off

1042
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:04,279
Speaker 2: of convincing parents that their kids are fucking each other

1043
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:06,920
Speaker 2: to death. She has never once been correct, but she

1044
00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:11,480
Speaker 2: has the ear of incoming President Donald Trump. She is awesome.

1045
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:14,759
Speaker 2: Back in two thousand and three, Oprah laundered her conservative

1046
00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:18,839
Speaker 2: Christian propaganda because hey, sex sells best. End Boggle, who

1047
00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:21,920
Speaker 2: wrote a book called Kids Gone Wild. But despite that title,

1048
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:23,799
Speaker 2: the book is about how all this stuff is bullshit, right.

1049
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:26,720
Speaker 2: It's about all these bullshit media myths about how bad

1050
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:30,719
Speaker 2: kids are, right, and it busts a bunch of pervasive

1051
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:34,640
Speaker 2: myths about teenagers and their wild, elaborate sex based parties.

1052
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:39,200
Speaker 2: Both Boggle and Best clearly blame Oprah for launching the

1053
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:43,400
Speaker 2: rainbow parties panic. Right like this becomes a media panic

1054
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:46,120
Speaker 2: as a result of Oprah giving it so much oxygen.

1055
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:48,279
Speaker 2: I'm going to quote now from an interview with the

1056
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:51,480
Speaker 2: authors of that book in Salon with Oprah, because that

1057
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:54,439
Speaker 2: reaches so many millions of people, particularly women and women

1058
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:56,680
Speaker 2: that have children. They're hearing that story and saying, oh

1059
00:54:56,680 --> 00:54:58,640
Speaker 2: my god, did you hear on Oprah? What's going on?

1060
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:00,640
Speaker 2: We've been a quote in the book that looks at

1061
00:55:00,680 --> 00:55:03,799
Speaker 2: another reporter when they're looking at issues of youth and sex,

1062
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:06,040
Speaker 2: a reporter by the name of Costello that says it

1063
00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:09,200
Speaker 2: must be true. Didn't you see that Oprah episode? So

1064
00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:12,160
Speaker 2: even another reporter ends up citing Oprah as a fact

1065
00:55:12,239 --> 00:55:15,200
Speaker 2: checker on rainbow parties being real. So if you're following

1066
00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:20,040
Speaker 2: the evidentiary chain of custody here, Oprah's reporter says, I

1067
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:23,760
Speaker 2: talked to fifty girls and like they said rainbow parties

1068
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:25,920
Speaker 2: were pervasive. Did any of them say they'd been to

1069
00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:29,719
Speaker 2: one unclear? That turns into another journalist being like, well,

1070
00:55:29,719 --> 00:55:32,959
Speaker 2: they're real because it was on Oprah.

1071
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:38,040
Speaker 5: We're locked in baby, Yeah, the circular bullshit machine.

1072
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:43,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, this beautiful stuff. Another Oh, and actually this gets

1073
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:46,799
Speaker 2: back to Degrassi. Another story of Oprah helped push around

1074
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:50,640
Speaker 2: the same time was a panic around sex bracelets. This

1075
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:52,720
Speaker 2: is again the idea that like girls have these color

1076
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:55,600
Speaker 2: coded bracelets to signify all the sex acts they're down

1077
00:55:55,719 --> 00:55:58,239
Speaker 2: to perform. And I guess the boys are just going

1078
00:55:58,239 --> 00:56:00,640
Speaker 2: around being like, oh, that girl's get a bracelet for

1079
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:03,040
Speaker 2: a foot job, I'm getting up with her. And it's like,

1080
00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 2: that's just that's just not how teenagers work. That's not

1081
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:10,040
Speaker 2: how adults work. Nothing works that way except for like,

1082
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:14,160
Speaker 2: I don't know, weird Jeffrey Epstein parties. Probably, I'm sure

1083
00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:16,480
Speaker 2: he had some parties like that. I'm sure he had

1084
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:18,920
Speaker 2: parties like that because they watched Oprah and were all

1085
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:20,279
Speaker 2: perverts anyway.

1086
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:25,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's also like that is such a healthier type

1087
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:29,720
Speaker 3: of consent than anything that actually happens in fucking high school.

1088
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:33,800
Speaker 2: Right, Yes, yes, they're all having like the kind of

1089
00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:37,440
Speaker 2: key parties that like middle aged swingers had in nineteen

1090
00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:38,239
Speaker 2: seventy four.

1091
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:42,560
Speaker 5: Those bracelets were like very popular when I was coming

1092
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:44,799
Speaker 5: of age, and they were genuinely like y'all could look

1093
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:45,080
Speaker 5: this up.

1094
00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:46,840
Speaker 4: They were banned from schools.

1095
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:52,400
Speaker 2: Oh YEAHU of high school. Yes, now this is another

1096
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:55,719
Speaker 2: thing again, both this and rainbow parties. I'm sure, if

1097
00:56:55,719 --> 00:56:58,560
Speaker 2: you dug you could find examples of teenagers doing it

1098
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:02,080
Speaker 2: after it becomes immediate panic because kids are like, all right,

1099
00:57:03,320 --> 00:57:04,160
Speaker 2: let's give it a shot.

1100
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:07,440
Speaker 4: Were doing it, yeah.

1101
00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:10,480
Speaker 2: But yeah. It's not until professional media idiots like Matt

1102
00:57:10,560 --> 00:57:12,799
Speaker 2: Lauer Ormantel Williams make a big deal about it that

1103
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:15,280
Speaker 2: it becomes a thing. And in that interview on Salon,

1104
00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:17,640
Speaker 2: Best and Bogel get to the heart of what's really

1105
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:19,760
Speaker 2: going on with all of this. I think one of

1106
00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:21,480
Speaker 2: the things we show in the last chapter is that

1107
00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:24,120
Speaker 2: it's not just one group that likes these stories. Kids

1108
00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:27,080
Speaker 2: themselves like them because it's great gossip. What's better than

1109
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:29,400
Speaker 2: to say, oh, the girl wearing the red bracelet you

1110
00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:31,880
Speaker 2: know what she does. She gives lap dances. They make

1111
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:34,640
Speaker 2: stories teens like to pass around that make interesting gossip.

1112
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:36,720
Speaker 2: Parents are always worried about their kids, of course, and

1113
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:38,680
Speaker 2: they've been fed a lot of media stories that feed

1114
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:40,880
Speaker 2: into that. So the idea that their child, who they

1115
00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:43,600
Speaker 2: think of as innocent, might be corrupted by these other

1116
00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:47,280
Speaker 2: forces that feeds into something like they've been fed and

1117
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:49,680
Speaker 2: believed for a long time. Schools want to show how

1118
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:51,880
Speaker 2: they have things under control. They know what's going on

1119
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:53,680
Speaker 2: and they can talk to parents about it, so they

1120
00:57:53,720 --> 00:57:56,280
Speaker 2: can say we ban those bracelets to put a stop

1121
00:57:56,320 --> 00:57:58,760
Speaker 2: to that. Then, of course the media, there's both the

1122
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:01,880
Speaker 2: idea that sex sells, but also fear cells saying, listen

1123
00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:04,440
Speaker 2: to this story. You have something to worry about. You

1124
00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:06,120
Speaker 2: have to listen to this because you don't know what's

1125
00:58:06,160 --> 00:58:08,439
Speaker 2: really going on and it could affect your child. That's

1126
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:12,240
Speaker 2: what gets viewers and television producers and newspaper paper columnists

1127
00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:17,840
Speaker 2: are aware of that. Now we're going to move on

1128
00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:20,040
Speaker 2: from the radio party stuff. But I wouldn't be doing

1129
00:58:20,080 --> 00:58:22,960
Speaker 2: my job as podcast host if I did not play

1130
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:24,200
Speaker 2: you the rest of that clip.

1131
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:28,080
Speaker 9: So okay, and so what is so what does pretty

1132
00:58:28,080 --> 00:58:28,560
Speaker 9: boy mean?

1133
00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:32,000
Speaker 6: A pretty boy is a sexually active boy, someone who's

1134
00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:34,360
Speaker 6: been fairly promiscuous. So it isn't what maybe what you

1135
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:36,120
Speaker 6: would have thought pretty boy meant in your head. Dirty

1136
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:38,840
Speaker 6: means what does dirty mean? A means a diseased girl.

1137
00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:41,520
Speaker 6: And along with that, the term that some teens are

1138
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:45,600
Speaker 6: using to mean HIV is high five high and then

1139
00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:48,200
Speaker 6: the Roman numeral B high five. So if you got

1140
00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:51,200
Speaker 6: high fived by Jack, you got diseased by Jack.

1141
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:53,600
Speaker 3: I gave you HIV.

1142
00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:55,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, what, So that.

1143
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:56,920
Speaker 9: Means you shouldn't go around saying the little kidding where

1144
00:58:56,920 --> 00:58:58,280
Speaker 9: I was a little boy and went to give me

1145
00:58:58,360 --> 00:59:01,680
Speaker 9: high five. Yeah, you shouldn't do that anymore.

1146
00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:04,040
Speaker 6: And suddenly your kids want to make salad all the time.

1147
00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:06,160
Speaker 4: You should be wondering, okay.

1148
00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:10,080
Speaker 6: And booty call is pretty common, yeah, pretty pervasive. Yeah,

1149
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:14,240
Speaker 6: that's an early morning or late at night call for

1150
00:59:14,320 --> 00:59:16,200
Speaker 6: sex that involves no real relationship.

1151
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:17,280
Speaker 4: Maybe two am.

1152
00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:19,160
Speaker 6: Guy calls girl and says, meet me at so and

1153
00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:21,200
Speaker 6: so location, We have sex, we leave.

1154
00:59:21,560 --> 00:59:22,120
Speaker 2: What do you call?

1155
00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:24,040
Speaker 4: Y'all knew that, y'all got that right?

1156
00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:24,840
Speaker 2: Okay?

1157
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:26,000
Speaker 3: Uh.

1158
00:59:26,120 --> 00:59:29,520
Speaker 6: And then there's the term hoovering, which is a term

1159
00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:33,960
Speaker 6: used for a girl having an abortion. The yes, you get,

1160
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:36,360
Speaker 6: you get the reference, the sucking of a hoover vacuum.

1161
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:39,240
Speaker 6: She's having herself vacuumed out, so to speak. So these

1162
00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:41,240
Speaker 6: were just a few of the terms that I.

1163
00:59:41,560 --> 00:59:42,720
Speaker 4: Want her teens referring to.

1164
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:44,439
Speaker 3: I got a whole new vocabulary book.

1165
00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:47,280
Speaker 9: So why don't happen when they would say she got hoovered?

1166
00:59:48,440 --> 00:59:50,480
Speaker 9: If somebody, if you're talking to somebody in the beginning,

1167
00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:52,640
Speaker 9: before you got so right here, Yeah, before I got here?

1168
00:59:52,840 --> 00:59:54,920
Speaker 9: What would you what would if somebody said she got

1169
00:59:54,920 --> 00:59:56,600
Speaker 9: who would you just say? What do you mean? Yeah?

1170
00:59:56,600 --> 00:59:57,520
Speaker 6: What do you mean? What do you mean?

1171
00:59:57,560 --> 00:59:58,440
Speaker 3: What does hoover Ring mean?

1172
00:59:58,680 --> 00:59:59,960
Speaker 4: She tell me a rainbow part.

1173
01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:02,560
Speaker 6: He's pretty common, I think, so leaf among the pipy

1174
01:00:02,560 --> 01:00:02,960
Speaker 6: girls that.

1175
01:00:02,920 --> 01:00:03,320
Speaker 3: I talked to.

1176
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:07,000
Speaker 2: Yea, that gets us back to what the we'd said before.

1177
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:10,200
Speaker 2: But like, oh God Jesus, but the idea that like,

1178
01:00:10,320 --> 01:00:13,240
Speaker 2: kids have like a fun term for getting HIV.

1179
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:18,080
Speaker 3: So not to give notes on the slang, but shouldn't

1180
01:00:18,080 --> 01:00:23,240
Speaker 3: it be high four? I'm just I don't know, man.

1181
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:24,520
Speaker 1: Such a writer, Andrew.

1182
01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:29,640
Speaker 3: I just like, it's tough that Hoovering really, you know,

1183
01:00:29,720 --> 01:00:32,200
Speaker 3: it used to be just suffering from the great a

1184
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:35,960
Speaker 3: Great Depression and now so badly.

1185
01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:41,000
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it would have been pretty funny to just

1186
01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:43,360
Speaker 2: be a con man journalist in this period and be like, yeah,

1187
01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:45,600
Speaker 2: the kids can't stop talking about Herbert Hoover, you know,

1188
01:00:46,080 --> 01:00:49,720
Speaker 2: like he's their favorite president. He's the only guy on

1189
01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:51,280
Speaker 2: the minds of the youth these days.

1190
01:00:52,280 --> 01:00:55,920
Speaker 3: I mean, obviously the internet is absolute poison, but truly,

1191
01:00:56,240 --> 01:01:00,280
Speaker 3: watching this clip of someone basically read fake Urban Dictionary

1192
01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:03,400
Speaker 3: on National TV does kind of give me like, okay,

1193
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:05,360
Speaker 3: some things were improved, Okay.

1194
01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:06,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh yeah.

1195
01:01:07,040 --> 01:01:09,880
Speaker 5: Have y'all seen that meme where it's like iced tea

1196
01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:13,640
Speaker 5: from Law and Order SVU explaining or sake things. That's

1197
01:01:13,680 --> 01:01:15,840
Speaker 5: what that reminded me of, just someone sitting on stage

1198
01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:18,520
Speaker 5: being like, oh yeah, the kids are calling it cat littering.

1199
01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:21,400
Speaker 4: It's been like that's what that was.

1200
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:24,760
Speaker 5: It's just somebody making up fake things for entertainment.

1201
01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:28,240
Speaker 2: The idea that kids have like a casual slang term

1202
01:01:28,320 --> 01:01:33,720
Speaker 2: for getting HIV. It's it's like it's like it's doing

1203
01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:35,200
Speaker 2: something in a video game.

1204
01:01:38,280 --> 01:01:42,240
Speaker 3: But also like I mean, obviously they were they had

1205
01:01:42,280 --> 01:01:44,800
Speaker 3: a vested interest and never thinking about this, but like

1206
01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:50,400
Speaker 3: nothing is more like universal than teens lying to all that.

1207
01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:54,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, as if a journalist had ever tried to sit

1208
01:01:54,320 --> 01:01:56,400
Speaker 2: down with me and my friends and ask us like

1209
01:01:57,200 --> 01:02:00,680
Speaker 2: about if there's any sex slang, we would lied like

1210
01:02:00,880 --> 01:02:04,240
Speaker 2: cheap rugs like we would we would not have stopped

1211
01:02:04,320 --> 01:02:07,480
Speaker 2: talking until they had run out of space on their recorder.

1212
01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:11,640
Speaker 3: You know, Like just like the credulousness is I mean,

1213
01:02:11,640 --> 01:02:15,240
Speaker 3: I guess that that I'm realizing now I guess is

1214
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:17,240
Speaker 3: like Oprah's Big crime is just like.

1215
01:02:18,720 --> 01:02:21,040
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, that's a big part of it. Or you know,

1216
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:24,720
Speaker 2: if she's not credulous, because again she's a very savvy person.

1217
01:02:25,240 --> 01:02:29,600
Speaker 2: It's like marketing credulousness, right, yeah, and.

1218
01:02:29,520 --> 01:02:33,360
Speaker 3: It's the mist ship you've ever heard. She'll just be like,

1219
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:37,520
Speaker 3: I mean, listen, that's exactly what Joe Rogan does.

1220
01:02:37,760 --> 01:02:42,760
Speaker 2: So right, yep, like that that is there's a really

1221
01:02:43,120 --> 01:02:46,680
Speaker 2: like you don't have Joe Rogan without the Oprah Winfrey show,

1222
01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:50,880
Speaker 2: you know, yeah, just like you don't have Oprah without Donahue. Now,

1223
01:02:50,960 --> 01:02:53,280
Speaker 2: Oprah is not the only person obviously who's spread this

1224
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:55,640
Speaker 2: kind of stuff, but she is the biggest name in

1225
01:02:55,680 --> 01:02:58,760
Speaker 2: the world of people doing this. As Vanity Fair stated

1226
01:02:58,760 --> 01:03:01,800
Speaker 2: in the year two thousand when launched Oh magazine, quote,

1227
01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:05,080
Speaker 2: Oprah Winfrey arguably has more influence on the culture than

1228
01:03:05,120 --> 01:03:09,920
Speaker 2: any university president, politician, or religious religious leader except perhaps

1229
01:03:09,960 --> 01:03:12,640
Speaker 2: the Pope. And I'm just gonna say it, John Paul

1230
01:03:12,640 --> 01:03:14,360
Speaker 2: the second I think was the pope at this time,

1231
01:03:14,400 --> 01:03:16,920
Speaker 2: and I believe Oprah had more of an influence than

1232
01:03:17,720 --> 01:03:23,680
Speaker 2: American culture at least, like who remembers, oh, JP, the

1233
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:30,000
Speaker 2: two you got shot once? Come on, I know popes

1234
01:03:30,040 --> 01:03:31,640
Speaker 2: who have been shot way more than that.

1235
01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:35,920
Speaker 3: Also, do individual popes really have that much influence? I mean,

1236
01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:37,720
Speaker 3: they're still you.

1237
01:03:37,840 --> 01:03:39,680
Speaker 2: Certainly did well.

1238
01:03:40,360 --> 01:03:42,800
Speaker 3: I'm just I just mean, like they don't really have

1239
01:03:43,040 --> 01:03:47,560
Speaker 3: more influence than any other pope. Really, like you're still

1240
01:03:47,600 --> 01:03:50,160
Speaker 3: operating within the bands of Catholicism.

1241
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:52,560
Speaker 2: Look, most of what I know about the pope comes

1242
01:03:52,560 --> 01:03:57,600
Speaker 2: from the movie The Conclave, which is largely yeah, yeah, yeah,

1243
01:03:57,640 --> 01:04:00,800
Speaker 2: which is which is largely that Stanley Tucci looks incredible

1244
01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:04,000
Speaker 2: in Catholic vestiments, Like it's like he was poured into him,

1245
01:04:04,040 --> 01:04:07,400
Speaker 2: that that man can really pull off whatever you call

1246
01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:13,080
Speaker 2: those outfits. Also, Ralph finds, Oh my god, his teuch

1247
01:04:13,320 --> 01:04:21,680
Speaker 2: chains the tuch oh Man, and then John Lithgow out

1248
01:04:21,720 --> 01:04:24,560
Speaker 2: of nowhere love it, the vaping Cardinal, all sorts of

1249
01:04:24,560 --> 01:04:25,640
Speaker 2: good stuff in that movie.

1250
01:04:25,920 --> 01:04:31,440
Speaker 3: Okay, I am more sold by the concept of a

1251
01:04:31,560 --> 01:04:32,080
Speaker 3: vaping car.

1252
01:04:33,520 --> 01:04:37,360
Speaker 2: It's good they hire an Italian man whose face was

1253
01:04:37,520 --> 01:04:41,680
Speaker 2: made to angrily vape while wearing vestiments. It's amazing that

1254
01:04:41,800 --> 01:04:49,000
Speaker 2: casting director deserves the Medal of Honor. Okay, so yeah,

1255
01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:51,520
Speaker 2: I think that that's probably a broadly accurate statement. The

1256
01:04:51,640 --> 01:04:54,520
Speaker 2: Rainbow Party disinformation is part of a long tradition of

1257
01:04:54,520 --> 01:04:58,080
Speaker 2: Oprah episodes about how dangerous life has become for young children.

1258
01:04:58,480 --> 01:05:01,600
Speaker 2: Every year, as violent crime fell and violence towards children

1259
01:05:01,680 --> 01:05:05,160
Speaker 2: usually fell, Oprah barraged her audience with ceaseless tales of

1260
01:05:05,240 --> 01:05:09,600
Speaker 2: child abductions, child sex trafficking, child drug abuse, and teen sex.

1261
01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:13,600
Speaker 2: Studies show consistently that Americans believe violent crime is much

1262
01:05:13,680 --> 01:05:15,960
Speaker 2: higher than it in fact is. We are in the

1263
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:18,640
Speaker 2: midst of a very frightening moral panic over child sex

1264
01:05:18,680 --> 01:05:22,080
Speaker 2: trafficking right now, which does not resemble how child sex

1265
01:05:22,080 --> 01:05:25,920
Speaker 2: trafficking actually looks. I'm speaking of right now about Tim Ballard,

1266
01:05:25,960 --> 01:05:29,479
Speaker 2: who lies about his life Rescuing kids from child sex

1267
01:05:29,480 --> 01:05:32,800
Speaker 2: trafficking networks were the basis of the blockbuster movie's Sound

1268
01:05:32,800 --> 01:05:35,600
Speaker 2: of Freedom. Ballard spent years claimed to be fighting an

1269
01:05:35,640 --> 01:05:39,280
Speaker 2: international shadowy network of child traffickers, while he just resigned

1270
01:05:39,280 --> 01:05:42,840
Speaker 2: after being charged with massive sexual misconduct and abuse himself.

1271
01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:45,600
Speaker 2: Despite all of this, tons of people believe little kids

1272
01:05:45,600 --> 01:05:48,480
Speaker 2: are being targeted and stolen by criminal organizations, when again,

1273
01:05:48,800 --> 01:05:52,040
Speaker 2: they are usually being molested by people who are responsible

1274
01:05:52,080 --> 01:05:56,040
Speaker 2: for them, not random narco gangs abducting kids and parking

1275
01:05:56,040 --> 01:05:58,320
Speaker 2: lots by putting cheese on the doors of their mom's car.

1276
01:05:58,800 --> 01:06:00,000
Speaker 2: That's not the problem.

1277
01:06:00,640 --> 01:06:02,400
Speaker 4: OPRAH bears a good share.

1278
01:06:02,200 --> 01:06:04,680
Speaker 2: Of the blame for how unhinged many Americans are about

1279
01:06:04,680 --> 01:06:07,560
Speaker 2: the dangers that children face. And this is I'm making

1280
01:06:07,600 --> 01:06:10,400
Speaker 2: this allegation based on stuff like the Rainbow Party panic

1281
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:14,480
Speaker 2: and other years of other similar episodes, but you know

1282
01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:17,760
Speaker 2: it's during my research. I ran into a really interesting

1283
01:06:17,800 --> 01:06:20,200
Speaker 2: thread in a website on free range parenting. And I'm

1284
01:06:20,240 --> 01:06:21,800
Speaker 2: not making I don't know much about free I'm not

1285
01:06:21,880 --> 01:06:23,720
Speaker 2: making a comment on that, but I found it interesting

1286
01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:25,080
Speaker 2: to read what these people had to say. In a

1287
01:06:25,120 --> 01:06:28,480
Speaker 2: thread titled did OPRAH make us terrified for our kids?

1288
01:06:28,640 --> 01:06:31,720
Speaker 2: The author who identifies themselves as Laura Wrights. As I

1289
01:06:31,720 --> 01:06:34,440
Speaker 2: think about the litany of freak accidents and hidden dangers

1290
01:06:34,480 --> 01:06:36,640
Speaker 2: I need to be constantly worried about for my kids.

1291
01:06:36,680 --> 01:06:39,960
Speaker 2: Almost everything has one common recurring element. I saw it

1292
01:06:40,040 --> 01:06:43,200
Speaker 2: on OPRAH. One time, baby drowning in an inch of water,

1293
01:06:43,280 --> 01:06:45,600
Speaker 2: healthy girl scrapes her knee and dies of MRSA child

1294
01:06:45,680 --> 01:06:48,560
Speaker 2: decapitated by an airbag, carbon monoxide from the car in

1295
01:06:48,600 --> 01:06:52,200
Speaker 2: the garage kills the family, dry drowning, school shootings, home invasions,

1296
01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:55,640
Speaker 2: and countless other tragedies then there are the abduction, molestation,

1297
01:06:55,720 --> 01:06:58,760
Speaker 2: and sexual predator stories. These were typically featured on OPRAH

1298
01:06:58,800 --> 01:07:01,680
Speaker 2: at least once a week. Well, I applaud oprah's efforts

1299
01:07:01,720 --> 01:07:04,280
Speaker 2: to raise awareness, catch truly horrible criminals, and break the

1300
01:07:04,280 --> 01:07:06,880
Speaker 2: silence of abuse victims. This had to have an impact

1301
01:07:06,920 --> 01:07:09,120
Speaker 2: on the perception that there is a predator around every

1302
01:07:09,160 --> 01:07:11,840
Speaker 2: corner and you can never be too careful because anything

1303
01:07:12,080 --> 01:07:17,240
Speaker 2: could happen. And I think she's on the money there, right,

1304
01:07:17,440 --> 01:07:21,200
Speaker 2: Like the helicopter parenting, the fact that like kids, there's

1305
01:07:21,240 --> 01:07:23,960
Speaker 2: not zero OPRAH, and the fact that like kids stop

1306
01:07:24,280 --> 01:07:26,880
Speaker 2: going outdoors, you know, and like.

1307
01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:31,200
Speaker 3: True crime podcasts. Now, it's like, just to make white

1308
01:07:31,200 --> 01:07:33,959
Speaker 3: women assume that the world is out for their kids,

1309
01:07:34,040 --> 01:07:37,080
Speaker 3: industry is the strongest thing going.

1310
01:07:37,520 --> 01:07:37,720
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1311
01:07:37,760 --> 01:07:41,040
Speaker 5: I mean, if you've ever seen videos of women moms

1312
01:07:41,040 --> 01:07:43,640
Speaker 5: who were like I was at the Walmart and a

1313
01:07:43,720 --> 01:07:47,320
Speaker 5: man looked at my child, Stay safe, mama, bears like

1314
01:07:47,800 --> 01:07:49,520
Speaker 5: it was the scariest thing that ever happened to me.

1315
01:07:49,960 --> 01:07:53,640
Speaker 5: We're like, it is this fantasy that around every corner

1316
01:07:53,680 --> 01:07:55,480
Speaker 5: there is a threat to you and your child. And

1317
01:07:55,520 --> 01:07:59,080
Speaker 5: I think it's dangerous precisely because it keeps you from

1318
01:07:59,160 --> 01:08:02,160
Speaker 5: seeing the action threats that are there, right, like the

1319
01:08:02,200 --> 01:08:05,160
Speaker 5: creepy soccer coach, the creepy guy at church, right, Like yeah,

1320
01:08:05,160 --> 01:08:07,880
Speaker 5: And I also think, like with the Rainbow parties, if

1321
01:08:07,880 --> 01:08:12,040
Speaker 5: you are so busy thinking about these fabricated fictional threats

1322
01:08:12,040 --> 01:08:14,600
Speaker 5: to your kids, what if you're the things that are

1323
01:08:14,680 --> 01:08:17,439
Speaker 5: actually happening in your kid's life day to day at school?

1324
01:08:17,680 --> 01:08:19,639
Speaker 5: How are they going to come talk to you? How

1325
01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:22,519
Speaker 5: are you going to foster a safe, open, communicative environment

1326
01:08:22,760 --> 01:08:25,840
Speaker 5: if you've been led to believe that, like these fictional

1327
01:08:25,920 --> 01:08:27,360
Speaker 5: threats are out there and that they're real.

1328
01:08:27,840 --> 01:08:28,120
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1329
01:08:28,240 --> 01:08:28,920
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1330
01:08:28,960 --> 01:08:32,920
Speaker 3: Well, Also it's like, I mean, because it is you know,

1331
01:08:33,800 --> 01:08:38,400
Speaker 3: scout leaders, church leaders and their husbands that are doing

1332
01:08:38,439 --> 01:08:41,960
Speaker 3: most of this stuff. It's like those people are the

1333
01:08:41,960 --> 01:08:45,720
Speaker 3: ones that they have some responsibility for bringing into their

1334
01:08:45,800 --> 01:08:51,519
Speaker 3: child's life, whereas a narco gang is just randomly out there,

1335
01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:53,960
Speaker 3: Like you don't have to confront anything about yourself to

1336
01:08:54,040 --> 01:08:56,839
Speaker 3: protect a kid from the others.

1337
01:08:57,600 --> 01:09:01,400
Speaker 2: Ding ding, fucking ding. I think right, It's so it's

1338
01:09:01,479 --> 01:09:05,800
Speaker 2: hard to raise kids, and like you can be a responsible,

1339
01:09:05,840 --> 01:09:07,920
Speaker 2: decent person who does their best with your kid and

1340
01:09:07,960 --> 01:09:11,000
Speaker 2: they can have a horrible life. That's the world, right,

1341
01:09:11,360 --> 01:09:15,800
Speaker 2: Like you can't stop that. And instead of like confronting

1342
01:09:15,840 --> 01:09:18,400
Speaker 2: that and confronting like, well, all I can really do is,

1343
01:09:18,880 --> 01:09:21,320
Speaker 2: you know, try to be the best parent for my kid.

1344
01:09:21,840 --> 01:09:24,280
Speaker 2: You get all these like obsessions with things that just

1345
01:09:24,360 --> 01:09:28,200
Speaker 2: are not realistic threats and dangers, and you just feel like,

1346
01:09:28,240 --> 01:09:32,280
Speaker 2: if I continue scratching that fear itch by watching this stuff,

1347
01:09:32,720 --> 01:09:35,639
Speaker 2: maybe it'll make it less likely to happen to me. Right,

1348
01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:38,280
Speaker 2: maybe if I if I train my eyes on the

1349
01:09:38,320 --> 01:09:40,920
Speaker 2: eye of horace, it will be less likely to harm

1350
01:09:40,960 --> 01:09:42,040
Speaker 2: me and my loved ones.

1351
01:09:42,160 --> 01:09:42,360
Speaker 6: You know.

1352
01:09:42,880 --> 01:09:45,479
Speaker 3: Well, it's like the safety theater makes you feel better

1353
01:09:45,520 --> 01:09:49,599
Speaker 3: then again confronting the actual difficult shit that.

1354
01:09:49,840 --> 01:09:53,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, like the danger of all of this stuff

1355
01:09:53,920 --> 01:09:57,559
Speaker 2: was less. You know, kids are having rainbow parties or

1356
01:09:58,160 --> 01:10:02,519
Speaker 2: you know, pedophile gangs or abducting kids in vans and

1357
01:10:02,560 --> 01:10:05,679
Speaker 2: more like, hey, uh, have you looked at your kid's

1358
01:10:05,680 --> 01:10:08,800
Speaker 2: Scout leader lately? Seems like here's a little one on

1359
01:10:08,800 --> 01:10:11,800
Speaker 2: one time with the boys. By the way, should somebody

1360
01:10:11,800 --> 01:10:12,320
Speaker 2: look at on that.

1361
01:10:12,840 --> 01:10:15,519
Speaker 3: Scouts in general, it's also just like a right wing

1362
01:10:15,600 --> 01:10:21,320
Speaker 3: paramilitary organization, even without the funny business. You could learn

1363
01:10:21,479 --> 01:10:25,280
Speaker 3: to camp and fish and hunt without all the fucking

1364
01:10:25,640 --> 01:10:27,799
Speaker 3: like allegiances to order.

1365
01:10:27,960 --> 01:10:29,880
Speaker 2: You know, Andrew, thank you, because I wanted to pivot

1366
01:10:29,920 --> 01:10:32,400
Speaker 2: to letting everyone know that if you give your kids

1367
01:10:32,400 --> 01:10:34,720
Speaker 2: to me for one week out of the year, they

1368
01:10:34,760 --> 01:10:37,719
Speaker 2: will come back. It's the Lawrence of Arabia school for children.

1369
01:10:37,720 --> 01:10:40,400
Speaker 2: They're going to learn how to blow up bridges and trains. Right,

1370
01:10:40,640 --> 01:10:43,240
Speaker 2: what do they do with that knowledge? That's up to them.

1371
01:10:43,320 --> 01:10:46,120
Speaker 2: I have no control of them. Once they've learned how

1372
01:10:46,120 --> 01:10:49,439
Speaker 2: to make the explosives and destroy bridge supports, it's no

1373
01:10:49,560 --> 01:10:52,080
Speaker 2: longer my responsibility after that point.

1374
01:10:52,200 --> 01:10:54,519
Speaker 4: You know, the start of Robert starting a boy army.

1375
01:10:56,840 --> 01:11:00,280
Speaker 2: Everybody does want a child army, you know, speaking of popes,

1376
01:11:00,360 --> 01:11:05,839
Speaker 2: Bridget like, that's that's like a third of the popes. Wow,

1377
01:11:06,960 --> 01:11:10,519
Speaker 2: solid subset of the pope population has child armies.

1378
01:11:10,560 --> 01:11:10,760
Speaker 3: You know.

1379
01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:15,000
Speaker 2: Anyway, I think that's an episode.

1380
01:11:15,200 --> 01:11:17,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I was gonna say, we gotta we gotta stop.

1381
01:11:17,560 --> 01:11:19,120
Speaker 2: Turns out we have a lot more Oprah to do.

1382
01:11:19,200 --> 01:11:20,760
Speaker 2: I don't know what we're gonna do about this, but

1383
01:11:20,840 --> 01:11:24,320
Speaker 2: everybody go away for the weekend. Bridget Pluggables.

1384
01:11:25,120 --> 01:11:28,759
Speaker 5: Uh yeah, you can subscribe to my boy Army newsletter.

1385
01:11:28,880 --> 01:11:31,160
Speaker 4: Notice kidding. You can listen to my podcast. There are

1386
01:11:31,160 --> 01:11:32,240
Speaker 4: our NCLs on the internet.

1387
01:11:32,520 --> 01:11:35,960
Speaker 5: My podcast with Mozilla Foundation, the makers of Firefox called

1388
01:11:36,040 --> 01:11:38,559
Speaker 5: irl about who has the Power in AI?

1389
01:11:38,720 --> 01:11:40,320
Speaker 4: And follow me on Instagram at bridget r.

1390
01:11:40,360 --> 01:11:44,640
Speaker 3: And DC excellent Andrew T, I don't know man, Just

1391
01:11:45,000 --> 01:11:46,640
Speaker 3: osis Racist is a podcast?

1392
01:11:46,920 --> 01:11:50,640
Speaker 2: Excellent, excellent. All right, everybody until next week. Remember the

1393
01:11:50,760 --> 01:11:53,200
Speaker 2: Robert Evans summer camp for kids to learn how to

1394
01:11:53,240 --> 01:11:57,560
Speaker 2: blow up trains and disrupt national infrastructure. It's not illegal

1395
01:11:57,600 --> 01:12:03,640
Speaker 2: if we don't tell them to do anything with the knowledge. Bye.

1396
01:12:04,840 --> 01:12:07,559
Speaker 7: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1397
01:12:07,920 --> 01:12:11,200
Speaker 7: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia

1398
01:12:11,360 --> 01:12:14,559
Speaker 7: dot com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1399
01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:17,120
Speaker 7: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

1400
01:12:17,400 --> 01:12:21,640
Speaker 8: Behind the Bastards is now available on YouTube, new episodes every.

1401
01:12:21,360 --> 01:12:22,559
Speaker 1: Wednesday and Friday.

1402
01:12:22,880 --> 01:12:26,639
Speaker 8: Subscribe to our channel YouTube dot com slash at Behind

1403
01:12:26,680 --> 01:12:27,320
Speaker 8: the Bastards.