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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, welcome to Weird House Cinema. This is Rob Lamb.

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Speaker 3: And this is Joe McCormick. And hey, folks, I said

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Speaker 3: this on yesterday's episode, but I want to say again,

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Speaker 3: if I sound unusual in today's episode, if I sound

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Speaker 3: a little hoarse, it is because I've got a bit

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Speaker 3: of a cold. But a bit of a cold could

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Speaker 3: not stop me from talking about today's movie on Weird House,

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Speaker 3: which is nineteen sixty eight. It's Black Lizard.

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Speaker 2: We should have worked it into the picture and so

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Speaker 2: that you sound like you do because a strange woman

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Speaker 2: with demon yellow eyes through a constricting snake at your neck.

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Speaker 2: But it's more mundane are the causes here? But yeah,

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Speaker 2: we have yet another cult favorite gem from Japanese cinema today,

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Speaker 2: and it follows the traditions of danger diabolic and that

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Speaker 2: it is another super criminal film, full of style, full

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Speaker 2: of visual pizazz. It's campy, it's bizarre, but also I

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Speaker 2: think with a lot of interesting depth. As you dig

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Speaker 2: into it, we're going to be talking about nineteen sixty

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Speaker 2: eight's Black Lizard. Today's film is also notable in that

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Speaker 2: it is entirely centered around a charismatic drag performance. The

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Speaker 2: title character, Black Lizard or Cororo Tokagi, is a stylish

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Speaker 2: female super criminal played in this film by prominent drag performer,

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Speaker 2: really famous and legendary drag performer, Akihiro Miwa, who will

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Speaker 2: have more information about here in a bet, but a

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Speaker 2: true legend, but a cultural figure of note, and it's

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Speaker 2: all played out seriously and thoughtfully, never for a giggle

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Speaker 2: in a wink. I've seen descriptions of this film as

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Speaker 2: a comedy. I think the current Internet movie database summary,

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Speaker 2: for example, says it's a comedy in the summary, and

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Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't think that's one hundred percent accurate.

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Speaker 2: It is a tremendously fun film. It is certainly camp,

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Speaker 2: but it doesn't really seem to play for laughs. But again,

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Speaker 2: it is tremendously fun.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there are funny things in it. It certainly has

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Speaker 3: an over the top sensibility, but I would say it

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Speaker 3: plays a lot more as kind of a serious tragic

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Speaker 3: romance and as a crime thriller more certainly more than

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Speaker 3: as a comedy. I would say it is no more

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Speaker 3: a comedy than danger diabolic as a comedy, and also

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Speaker 3: in Diabolic there are funny scenes and an absurd gratuitousness.

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Speaker 3: There's similar movies in a lot of ways, but neither

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Speaker 3: one really has the moment to moment focus on laughs

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Speaker 3: that a comedy usually does.

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Speaker 2: All right, elevator pitch for this film, I want to

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Speaker 2: approach it two ways. One, I would say it's the

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Speaker 2: forbidden love of a super criminal and an ace detective

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Speaker 2: realized in a stylish sixties counterculture Japanese cinema festival for

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Speaker 2: the eyes. But I also think that there's one line

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Speaker 2: in particular in translation here. Of course, we both watched

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Speaker 2: it with subtitles. I don't think a dub exists, and

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Speaker 2: I don't think I would want the dub. I think

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Speaker 2: I would want the subtitles. But there's one great line

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Speaker 2: where our main character, Aketchi, the number one detective in Japan,

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Speaker 2: is speaking to Black Lizard, the super criminal, and says,

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Speaker 2: black Lizard, you were an old fashioned romanticist in this

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Speaker 2: age soiled by corruption and murder. You believe that crime

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Speaker 2: should wear a gorgeous gown with a train fifteen feet long,

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Speaker 2: just like the primordial dreams of lizards.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, like those.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's I mean, if you love that line,

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Speaker 2: you'll love this film. This film perfectly delivers on like

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Speaker 2: the glorious, poetic weirdness of that statement. All right now,

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Speaker 2: I wasn't able to find what I could one hundred

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Speaker 2: percent feel certain about concerning a trailer, Japanese or otherwise.

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Speaker 2: So what I did find was a that was uploaded

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Speaker 2: by Brooklyn's Spectacle Theater, which I've never been to, but

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Speaker 2: it looks amazing. It's a collectively run screening space run

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Speaker 2: by movie loving volunteers and they play a lot of

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Speaker 2: just great looking stuff, including some films that we've covered

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Speaker 2: on Weird House before. Like just at the time of

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Speaker 2: this recording, I'm like, oh, what are they playing this

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Speaker 2: week at this place? And they're playing Doctor of Doom,

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Speaker 2: which is a wonderful Mexican luchadora film that we've covered

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Speaker 2: in the past. So so go check them out Brooklyn

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Speaker 2: Spectacle Theater. We're going to borrow part of the trailer

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Speaker 2: they uploaded. Again. I'm not sure if this is part

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Speaker 2: of an original trailer part of a trailer that they made,

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Speaker 2: but either way, it'll give you just a little sonic taste.

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Speaker 4: Of black lizards, you know, it give climateg.

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Speaker 1: Too much.

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Speaker 2: On all. Right now, if you want to go out

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Speaker 2: and watch Black Lizard before proceeding with the rest of

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Speaker 2: this episode, well, I'm sad to say this one is

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Speaker 2: tragically hard to find right now as of this recording,

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Speaker 2: as of this moment, despite the film having had an

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Speaker 2: official international and US release, even if a limited one

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Speaker 2: back in nineteen sixty nine, even though it had subsequent

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Speaker 2: re releases in Japan and and abroad over the decades

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Speaker 2: to follow. It might have been released on VHS at

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Speaker 2: one point, as Michael Weldon, who loved it, references a

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Speaker 2: tape in his Psychotronic Video guide book. I'm not sure

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Speaker 2: if he's referring to a legit tape or more of

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Speaker 2: a gray market sort of thing, but yeah, it's a

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Speaker 2: real shame because this is a fabulous film with a

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Speaker 2: cult following. It has cultural significance historical significance as well,

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Speaker 2: and it deserves to be seen by more film fans

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Speaker 2: than the best quality possible. If you look around, you

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Speaker 2: can find some sources for it. But I also have

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Speaker 2: to stress that this is the nineteen sixty eight Black

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Speaker 2: Lizard or Coro Toakagi film, not to be confused with

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Speaker 2: other films titled Black Lizard, including an unrelated Shaw Brothers

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Speaker 2: Hong Kong film titled Black Lizard from nineteen eighty one,

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Speaker 2: or a nineteen sixty two Japanese film titled Black Lizard

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Speaker 2: that is actually an earlier adaptation of the same novel

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Speaker 2: in the same play. I've seen part of the sixty

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Speaker 2: two film, and it's also quite stylish and quite good.

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Speaker 2: I was about like twenty mins and it's into it

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Speaker 2: before I realized, Oh, I have the wrong movie. I

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Speaker 2: need to find I need to look around a little art.

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Speaker 2: I think the sixty two win is actually maybe you

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Speaker 2: can stream it through Criterion Collection. So, but it would

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Speaker 2: not be a loss to watch the sixty two version.

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Speaker 2: You're going to hit a lot of the same plot

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Speaker 2: points we're hitting here. But we are talking about the

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Speaker 2: nineteen sixty eight adaptation here today.

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Speaker 3: Now when it comes to the sixty eight version, the

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Speaker 3: director is actually somebody quite familiar on Weird House.

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Speaker 2: That's right. It's Kimji Fukusaku, who lived nineteen thirty through

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Speaker 2: two thousand and three. He directed nineteen seventy eight's Message

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Speaker 2: from Space.

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Speaker 3: And Nice Best of the Star Wars Repulse.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a one we covered early on on

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Speaker 2: Weird House, and he also directed nineteen sixty eight so

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Speaker 2: The Green Slime, which we covered far more recently, both

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Speaker 2: very enjoyable films in their own distinct ways and also

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Speaker 2: rather different from today's entry. Yes, now, Fukusako has sixty

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Speaker 2: eight directorial credits on IMDb, and probably the big one

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Speaker 2: for a lot of listeners, as I mentioned before, is

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Speaker 2: two thousand's Battle Royale, which was a huge late career

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Speaker 2: hit for him, to the extent that it can to

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Speaker 2: a casual fan, you might, you know, only focus on that,

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Speaker 2: but other films of note include at least the Japanese

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Speaker 2: portions of nineteen seventies Tora Tora Tora. He apparently was

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Speaker 2: brought in after Kurosawa backed out nineteen seventy three's Battles

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Speaker 2: Without Honor and Humanity. He directed a number of action

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Speaker 2: yakuza and samurai movies, as well as the high budget

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Speaker 2: nineteen eighty sci fi film Virus, which featured a host

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Speaker 2: of Japanese and American actors. He also directed the two

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Speaker 2: thousand and two video game like PlayStation video game clock

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Speaker 2: Tower three, which I think I did play, and in

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Speaker 2: doing so, this was my earliest exposure to Fukusaku's work.

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Speaker 3: Is that like a horror game.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, if it's the one I'm thinking of. There's a

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Speaker 2: lot of like creeping around and trying to avoid like killers,

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Speaker 2: you know, like mass killers that you can't actually directly stand.

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Speaker 2: So in a way, it's kind of a similar vibe

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Speaker 2: to like the Alien Isolation game that came many many

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Speaker 2: years later. I don't remember anything about it where I'm like,

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Speaker 2: oh wow, of course Fukusaku was involved in this anyway.

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Speaker 2: Fukusaku's a director often associated with the Japanese New wave

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Speaker 2: cinema movement of the sixties and seventies, but he was

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Speaker 2: also a big commercial success, highly acclaimed both in Japan

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Speaker 2: and by filmmakers around the world. I've seen the likes

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Speaker 2: of Tarantino, Paul Schraeder and others talk about how much

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Speaker 2: they admire his work. All right now, in terms of

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Speaker 2: the writing here, they'll basically be like three levels because

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Speaker 2: the original source for this is a novel by Rampo

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Speaker 2: ed Ogawa, who lived eighteen ninety four through nineteen sixty five.

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Speaker 2: This was the pen name of Japanese author Tero Hirari.

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Speaker 2: Crafted this pen name Rampo ed Ogawa was apparently crafted

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Speaker 2: to resemble Edgar Allan Poe or PO. Edgar Allan So

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Speaker 2: PO Edgar Allan Rampo ed Ogawa So and Edgar Allan Poe,

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Speaker 2: along with Arthur Conan Doyle and others, were our big

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Speaker 2: influence on Rampo's work. I have to admit I was

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Speaker 2: really not familiar with Rampo prior to this. I don't

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Speaker 2: know if you'd ever run across discussion of his work before.

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Speaker 3: Joe, possibly, but not that I recall.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, apparently a huge name in the world of

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Speaker 2: Japanese mystery, detective and horror fiction, known for such works

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Speaker 2: as The Boy Detective's Club, The Fiend with Twenty Faces,

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Speaker 2: and of course The Black Lizard had His many short

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Speaker 2: stories include The Caterpillar and The Human Chair. Film and

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Speaker 2: TV adaptations of his work go back as far as

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Speaker 2: I believe nineteen twenty seven, and while he did write

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Speaker 2: I think just one screenplay, pretty much all of the

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Speaker 2: cinematic and TV treatments of his work were adapted by

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Speaker 2: other writers in the adaptations I've continued in film and

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Speaker 2: TV and manga and anime. Some of the more famous

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Speaker 2: adaptations and cclued nineteen sixty nine's Blind Beast and Horrors

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Speaker 2: of Malformed Men. So some of these are titles I'm

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Speaker 2: familiar with, but I didn't really know much about the

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Speaker 2: Rampo connection. And then twenty tens Caterpillar, and it's previously

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Speaker 2: mentioned Black Lizard was adapted numerous times as a play,

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Speaker 2: and then two separate adaptations of that play, the nineteen

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Speaker 2: sixty two film and this nineteen sixty eight one.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so that's the original novel. But there's another intermediary

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Speaker 3: literary source, which is the play which is eventually adapted

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Speaker 3: into the movie.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and the play here was adapted by another rather

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Speaker 2: famous figure in Japanese culture. This is Yukio Mishima, who

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Speaker 2: lived nineteen twenty five through nineteen seventy. So he wrote

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Speaker 2: the stage adaptation upon which this is based. And there's

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Speaker 2: a lot potentially unpacked here with Yukyo Mashima. You could

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Speaker 2: do a whole podcast just on this guy. He's ultimately

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Speaker 2: a very controversial figure. Mishima was a Japanese author, poet, playwright, actor,

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Speaker 2: and model. Is a highly successful writer said to affused

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Speaker 2: modern Western trends with traditional Japanese elements. With a general

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Speaker 2: focus on beauty, eroticism, and death. In his private life

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Speaker 2: and revealed in some of his writings, he was apparently

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Speaker 2: bisexual and often dealt with themes of same sex love.

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Speaker 2: He was also a shintost and an ultra right wing

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Speaker 2: nationalist who founded a militia known as the Shield Society,

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Speaker 2: and on November twenty fifth, nineteen seventy, this, of course,

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Speaker 2: is the year of his death, he essentially attempted a

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Speaker 2: coup with four members of the militia invading a Japanese

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Speaker 2: military base, taking the commandant hostage, and trying to encourage

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Speaker 2: the Japanese Self Defense Forces to overthrow the government and

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Speaker 2: restore her like the full rule of the Emperor. In

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Speaker 2: this attempt culminated in Mishima's own death VI. A Sepaka

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Speaker 2: and Yeah Again. He's remained a very controversial figure because

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Speaker 2: of all of this, though on the other hand, there's

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Speaker 2: always been a lot of interest in him in his

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Speaker 2: work in and out of Japan. American director Paul Schrader,

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Speaker 2: for example, directed a biopic in nineteen eighty five titled Mishima,

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Speaker 2: A Life in Four Chapters, starring ken Ogata in the

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Speaker 2: lead role. We were actually chatting about this with our

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Speaker 2: excellent producer JJ Possway off Mike before we went in here,

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Speaker 2: because I don't think either of us have seen this

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Speaker 2: particular Paul Schrader film, but JJ has and said that

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Speaker 2: it's really worth saying. It's quite excellent.

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Speaker 3: Now, if I'm not mistaken, Mishima appears bodily in Black

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Speaker 3: Lizard as well, doesn't he.

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Speaker 2: That's right. Yeah, Mishima himself was, in addition to all

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Speaker 2: these other things, he was an actor and a model.

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Speaker 2: He was a noted bodybuilder and act. Yeah, has a

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Speaker 2: very memorable non speaking role in this film. I mean,

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Speaker 2: you could say it's a cameo, but I don't know

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Speaker 2: when a cameo has like this much weight. I don't

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Speaker 2: want to dismissed it as such.

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Speaker 3: He's the So there is a sequence later in the

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Speaker 3: movie with these frozen human figures. They're sort of described,

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Speaker 3: I think as stuffed bodies, though there's a something almost

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Speaker 3: supernatural implied about the way that they're frozen, because they're

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Speaker 3: clearly just they're not mannequins, they're human bodies, and their

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Speaker 3: human bodies just kind of like trembling. You can see

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Speaker 3: them moving a little bit and he's one of them, right,

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Speaker 3: He's the one who's like in the middle of a

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Speaker 3: knife fight with another guy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's I mean, it's it's the classic, like

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Speaker 2: you know, wax museum effect of having people being really

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Speaker 2: still pretending to be models or some sort of preservation

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Speaker 2: of formerly living humans. So it does have that inherent

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Speaker 2: creepiness that we often touch on. But yeah, this is him.

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Speaker 2: It's a very pivotal scene as well. We'll get to.

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Speaker 2: It's also notable in that, yeah, this can't be relegated

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Speaker 2: as a cameo because a lot of times the poster

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Speaker 2: art has Mashima on the poster alongside the star, which

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Speaker 2: generally you don't do with your cameo appearances. Like the

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Speaker 2: detective Acecchi, who is in many respects the protagonist of

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Speaker 2: the picture, is not on the poster or not on

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Speaker 2: many of the posters that I was looking at, So yeah,

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Speaker 2: worth keeping in mind. As for Mishima, he has at

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Speaker 2: least some other acting credits, including the nineteen sixty yakuza

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Speaker 2: film Afraid to Die, in which he starred, and nineteen

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Speaker 2: sixty six's Patriotism, which he also wrote and co directed.

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Speaker 2: All Right, and then the screenplay based on the play

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Speaker 2: based on the novel. The credit here is Masashigi Narusawa,

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Speaker 2: who lived nineteen twenty five through twenty twenty one. An

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Speaker 2: award winning screenwriter and director. His films include nineteen fifty

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Speaker 2: six as Street of Shame, sixty eight's Curse of the Blood.

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Speaker 2: He was active from nineteen fifty through seventy five, with

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Speaker 2: a final Rampo adaptation airing on TV in nineteen eighty.

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Speaker 2: All right, so that's the director, that's the folks involved

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Speaker 2: in the writing of the picture. But now we have

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Speaker 2: to talk about are the true star of this and

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Speaker 2: that is Akihiro Miwa playing Black Lizard. This is just

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Speaker 2: a fabulous performance. This is one of those performances where

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Speaker 2: Miwa is almost constantly on the screen and is it

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Speaker 2: a light whenever he is on screen?

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Speaker 3: I agree Miwa makes this movie what it is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So, Miwa was born in nineteen thirty five and

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Speaker 2: as of this recording is still alive, and it's it's

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Speaker 2: essential to note that here in this starring role as

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Speaker 2: Black Lizard, the title character, the master criminal, we have

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Speaker 2: one of, if not the most famous Japanese drag performers

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Speaker 2: of the fifties and sixties, if not of all time.

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Speaker 2: Drag culture does still seem to be going strong in Japan.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, I'm assuming the only Western comparison would be

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Speaker 2: like someone like Rue Paul, Like this would be like

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Speaker 2: having Rue Paul appear as the title character or super

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Speaker 2: criminal picture. Maybe there's a better comparison to be made

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Speaker 2: right in if you've got one. Anyway. MIA's cabaret career

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Speaker 2: goes back to I Believe nineteen fifty two, and he

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Speaker 2: rose to popularity, transcending eventually from stage to film, TV,

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Speaker 2: music writing, and directing. He put out five albums between

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Speaker 2: nineteen seventy three and nineteen ninety five, all centered around

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Speaker 2: as drag persona. He also became an outspoken voice on

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Speaker 2: political and social issues in Japan, and he worked his

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Speaker 2: way up to this glorious leading role through often smaller

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Speaker 2: appearances sometimes it's like a singer or background character, and

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Speaker 2: number of films, and then followed this one up with

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Speaker 2: nineteen sixty nine's Black Rose or Black Rose Mansion, which

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Speaker 2: was also directed by Fukusaku. I haven't seen it, but

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Speaker 2: it's apparently classified as kind of like a dark romantic drama. Now.

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Speaker 2: While there's some additional live action roles after this Mea

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Speaker 2: was biggest contributions moving forward after this point are mostly

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Speaker 2: voice roles in animated projects, but boy did they include

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Speaker 2: some big ones. He voiced the three hundred year old

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Speaker 2: wolf goddess Moro Nokimi in Miyazaki's nineteen ninety seven masterpiece

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Speaker 2: Princess Mononoki. If you've only seen the dubbed version, this

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Speaker 2: would be the character that Gillian Anderson dubs. You know,

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Speaker 2: this big wolf goddess creature. He also voices the Witch

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Speaker 2: of the Waste in Miyazaki's two thousand and four film

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Speaker 2: Howell's Moving Castle, and for you Pokemon fans out there,

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Speaker 2: he also voiced a Pokemon by the name of Okay,

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure on this one, Arsius or Archias. I

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Speaker 2: asked my son about this real quick, and he was like,

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Speaker 2: people might get mad at you. But he was like,

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Speaker 2: they may say Archias or may they may say Arsius,

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Speaker 2: but be prepared to be corrected. So okay, I am prepared.

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Speaker 2: But anyway, this is like an important Pokemon like the

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Speaker 2: title Pokemon and the two thousand and nine TV movie

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Speaker 2: Arsius and the Jewel of Life.

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Speaker 3: If people are going to be mad at us. I

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Speaker 3: hope it's about Pokemon.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm always happy to be corrected.

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Speaker 3: But to come back to Black Lizard, Akihiro Miwa is

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Speaker 3: phenomenal in this movie, so much like passion and charisma

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Speaker 3: in this performance.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely every scene, and also so many costume and hair changes.

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Speaker 2: This is definitely one of those pictures where we will

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Speaker 2: call out the costume designer because you know, any new

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Speaker 2: scene with Black Lizard, you're gonna get a new costume.

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Speaker 2: You make it an entirely different hair going on as well.

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Speaker 2: It's great.

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Speaker 3: It's also a surprise for like a crime thriller, it

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Speaker 3: is a surprisingly dialogue heavy film, and I think that

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Speaker 3: may be based on the fact that it was This

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Speaker 3: is adapted from a stage play, so there are fewer

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Speaker 3: just straight action scenes than you might imagine. A lot

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Speaker 3: of it's just sort of dialogue and and and there

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Speaker 3: is There are a lot of thrills, but a lot

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Speaker 3: of the thrills are like twists that are revealed through dialogue.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, so it's talkier than you might expect, but

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Speaker 2: luckily the dialogue is often just tremendous. We already quoted

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Speaker 2: a little of it, and you know, it often has

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Speaker 2: that flavor, that weird character to it, and yeah, and

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Speaker 2: when we do have punctuations of actual action, it generally

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Speaker 2: is also really weird and jaw dropping. All right, now,

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Speaker 2: it's important to talk about the Ace detective. This is

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Speaker 2: Detective Akechi, played by Issau Kimura who lived nineteen twenty

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Speaker 2: three through nineteen eighty one. The interesting thing here is that, yeah,

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Speaker 2: Detective Akechi is in many respects the actual protagonist of

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Speaker 2: the film and is essentially Rampos Sherlock Holmes character, appearing

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Speaker 2: in multiple novels and short stories. So while many viewers

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Speaker 2: may watch this and you just see the sort of

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Speaker 2: you know, typical noir detective character, you know, a little

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Speaker 2: bit tortured, a little bit jaded, smoking and drinking, trying

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Speaker 2: to solve the crime, maybe falling a little bit in

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Speaker 2: love here and there. So while many viewers I just

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Speaker 2: dismissed that this character is like the detective figure in

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Speaker 2: Japanese pop culture and was in fact the first recurring

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Speaker 2: detective character in Japanese fiction. So he's a big deal

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Speaker 2: and has been played by numerous actors over the years,

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Speaker 2: including Tadanobu Asano, who have played of course, is the

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Speaker 2: star of Ichi the Killer, and also had a really

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Speaker 2: great role in the recent FX adaptation of Showgun. He

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Speaker 2: was in two thousand and five's Rampo Noir.

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Speaker 3: So a catchy we are told is Japan's number one detective.

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Speaker 3: But he also, I don't know. It makes a lot

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Speaker 3: more sense to me knowing that this is a recurring character,

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Speaker 3: because there's a sort of prologue in the film that's

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Speaker 3: almost like, well here I am, I'm in the club,

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Speaker 3: now sucked into this crime, And it makes more sense

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Speaker 3: if this is kind of a character we would recognize.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and in a way, it kind of gives you

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Speaker 2: more license to let that character become secondary. He does

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Speaker 2: have this like iconic place already, you know, in the

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Speaker 2: same way that you can have a Sherlock Holmes film

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Speaker 2: certainly these days, and allow secondary characters to sort of

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Speaker 2: take the forefront.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, totally. So.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, Kamu right here playing the role, frequently worked in

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Speaker 2: supporting roles in Akira Kurosawa films, including fifty four to

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Speaker 2: seven Samurai and fifty seven's Throne of Blood. Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: think his performance here certainly hits all the world. Weary

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Speaker 2: noir detective notes that you'd expect, and I suppose this

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Speaker 2: in many ways. This helps like ground the flashier elements

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Speaker 2: of the picture as well. But he's good. It's a

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Speaker 2: good performance. Yeah, all right, this is all going to picture,

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Speaker 2: This is all going to center around in many respects,

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Speaker 2: a damsel in frequent distress, a youngerly, a young woman

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Speaker 2: that Black Lizard tries to kidnap multiple times. Her name

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Speaker 2: is Sane, and she is played by Kiko Matsuka, and

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Speaker 2: she was born in nineteen forty seven, and she was

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Speaker 2: in a number of sixties and seventies films, including an

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Speaker 2: uncredited role as a diver girl in nineteen sixty seven's

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Speaker 2: Bond film You Only Live Twice. Her other credits include

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Speaker 2: nineteen sixty eight's The Living Skeleton, Black Rose Mansion, and

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Speaker 2: a Rampo TV series in nineteen seventy all right. Another

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Speaker 2: important secondary character is the is the despondent musician Yunichi Amamiya,

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Speaker 2: played by Yusuku Kuwazu, who lived nineteen thirty five through

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty two. This apparently is his best known role,

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Speaker 2: but his credits include nineteen sixty one's Killers on Parade,

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety three's Godzilla, versus Mega Godzilla two and nineteen

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Speaker 2: eighty eight, nineteen ninety eight s Gamma A three Revenge

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Speaker 2: of Iris. So, I mean, it's a solid performance this

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Speaker 2: this tragic character in this film. But also props to

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Speaker 2: anyone who was ever in both a Godzilla and a

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Speaker 2: Gamera movie.

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Speaker 3: That's right. Yeah, this is a very sad, pathetic, abject

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Speaker 3: role and this guy does well with it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, as we'll discuss, like even when he has

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Speaker 2: his moments of seeming bravery like, there's still this wrinkle

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Speaker 2: to them that makes it even more tragic.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's all revealed that it's just the ultimately even

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Speaker 3: more pathetic than you would have thought.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, let's see. Another fun secondary character is Private Detective

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Speaker 2: Keniji Matoba, who I guess is like he's not the

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Speaker 2: number one detective Aketchi is the number one detective. This

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Speaker 2: is somebody further down the list that has no problem

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Speaker 2: with at all with the possibility of making a fool

414
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Speaker 2: out of a catchee or you know, or coming in

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Speaker 2: to clean up a catchy's mess.

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Speaker 3: You can just see this guy's displeasure with the full

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Speaker 3: knowledge that he is the number four detective.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he is played. Yeah, so He's a rival stern

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Speaker 2: faced private detective, played here by award winning actor co Nishimura,

420
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Speaker 2: who lived nineteen twenty three through nineteen ninety seven, best

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Speaker 2: known for his roles in such Krosawa films as nineteen

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Speaker 2: sixty is The Bad, Sleep Well ones Yo Jimbo, nineteen

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Speaker 2: sixty three is High and Low. And he was also

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Speaker 2: greatly praised and awarded for his starring role in the

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Speaker 2: bear movie Matagi from nineteen eighty two. So he was

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Speaker 2: definitely the star of Matagi in eighty two. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: as for these Kirosawa films, several, some of which I

428
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 2: haven't seen and others I haven't seen in a long time.

429
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 2: I'm not sure exactly off the top of my head

430
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 2: how far up the cast he is in those, but

431
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 2: I love his performance series kind of like a Japanese

432
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 2: Christopher Lee.

433
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's very very stern.

434
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, Sanya's dad is also important. Iwasa played by

435
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 2: yun Usami who lived nineteen eleven through nineteen eighty one.

436
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 2: His credits include nineteen seventies Tori Toar Tora in nineteen

437
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 2: fifty eight, The Man in the Moonlight Mask.

438
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 3: This is sort of our rich Mark. The guy who

439
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 3: is targeted by Black Lizard for both the kidnapping of

440
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 3: his daughter and the stealing of his precious jewels.

441
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 2: Right, and you know, he's rather proud about the fact

442
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 2: that he can afford Japan's number one detective. So it's

443
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:06,679
Speaker 2: a fun, fun role. But he's also like, you know,

444
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 2: you're of course you're gonna get taken advantage off by

445
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 2: super criminals.

446
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 3: He also complains immediately about the cost of Japan's number

447
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 3: one detective when his daughter is discovered to have been kidnapped. Yeah, like,

448
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 3: throw back the blankets on the bed and it's like, oh,

449
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 3: it's just a mannequin in there. He's like, you know

450
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:24,680
Speaker 3: how much money I paid you to protect her?

451
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:29,119
Speaker 2: Yep, yep. We also already alluded to the snake woman

452
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 2: with the yellow demon eyes. We'll come back to her,

453
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,399
Speaker 2: just not a lot about her, but just to credit

454
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,920
Speaker 2: the actor. This is Toshiko Koboyashi, who lived nineteen thirty

455
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:50,920
Speaker 2: two through twenty sixteen. Oh okay, so we recently received

456
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 2: a listener mail from someone saying, hey, you guys need

457
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 2: to single out the costume folks, the costume designers more well,

458
00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 2: this is certainly a movie to do it on. We

459
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 2: have so many great costumes, especially for Black Lizard, and

460
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 2: the costume designer on this was Masako Watanabi. She's worth

461
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 2: singling out in part because, again, the costumes here are amazing,

462
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,479
Speaker 2: but she's also a notable manga comic writer and artist,

463
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 2: known for such titles that I'm not familiar with as

464
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:24,160
Speaker 2: Master of Morley, Jack, Ryerdon's Baby and Heidi. So if

465
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 2: you know more about about her and her work, write

466
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 2: in and we'll get the full details from you, all right.

467
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 2: And then finally the music. Oh, we have another huge

468
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,119
Speaker 2: name here. This is a guy with a number of

469
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,159
Speaker 2: credits in Japan film wise, but in general though just

470
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:44,440
Speaker 2: a musical icon. Isautomita, who lived nineteen thirty two through

471
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen. This is a name that I think is

472
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 2: going to register with a number of you. Not so

473
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 2: much for film though he does have associations with various films,

474
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 2: But this is this guy was one of the pioneers

475
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,639
Speaker 2: of electronic music and space music, both in Pan and

476
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:07,120
Speaker 2: ultimately internationally as well. His work prior to this film

477
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 2: included the TV series Mighty Jack, which I believe was

478
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 2: featured on Mystery Science Theater three thousand. But yeah, the

479
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 2: interesting thing is that around the same time of this

480
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 2: picture is when and again the score for this movie

481
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,879
Speaker 2: for Black Lizard is not particularly I don't think it's electronic.

482
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:27,360
Speaker 2: I think it's very traditional when you say but around

483
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 2: the same time as he would have been working on

484
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 2: this film, he heard Wendy Carlos's nineteen sixty eight album

485
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 2: Switched on Boch for the first time and was reportedly enraptured.

486
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 2: I heard. I read one account which I said, like, basically,

487
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 2: he's like, give me a ticket to New York and

488
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 2: like flies to the United States just so he can

489
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 2: bring back a mug synthesizer. He's like, I've got to

490
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 2: get my hands on this. Like he just saw the

491
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 2: tremendous potential and then started experimenting with synths and goes

492
00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 2: on to again have become this pioneer of electronic and music,

493
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 2: known for such works as nineteen seventy two is Electric

494
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 2: Samurai Switched On Rock, which I think was released in

495
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 2: the US, and seventy four nineteen seventy six is the Planets,

496
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 2: which I was listening to while finishing up my notes

497
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 2: here is.

498
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 3: That an electronic adaptation of Holst's the Planets.

499
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 2: You know, I'm not sure. I listened to the whole thing,

500
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 2: and I'm not sure of him. They didn't have Holes

501
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 2: credited on the tracks on Spotify, which may mean nothing,

502
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 2: but a number of his works are synth treatments, electronic

503
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 2: treatments of pre existing works, like I know he did

504
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:39,479
Speaker 2: a version of John Williams Star Wars theme song for example. Anyway,

505
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 2: he's an international legend. You'll find loads of his work

506
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 2: wherever you get your music. Again, I don't think we

507
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 2: really hear any electronic stylings in The Black Lizard's score,

508
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 2: as I think he flied to acquire his first synth

509
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 2: in around seventy two. But still, it's an amazing connection,

510
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 2: so we get like pre electronic to me to hear

511
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 2: he'd go on to score such films. Two thousand and

512
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 2: four is The Hidden Blade, and I've read he was

513
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 2: apparently Ridley Scott's first pick to score Alien. Would that

514
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 2: have worked? I don't know, but it's an interesting connection.

515
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:11,479
Speaker 3: Okay, is it time just talk about the plot.

516
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's jump into it.

517
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 3: Well, warning, this plot has twists and reveals a plenty,

518
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 3: so if you do want to experience the movie without

519
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 3: having anything spoiled. I guess you should pause here and

520
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 3: go watch it before you listen to this part of

521
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,959
Speaker 3: the episode. Now we open with the kind of prologue

522
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 3: before we get into the main caper that will involve

523
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 3: most of the movie. There's like a hippie technicolor acid

524
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 3: freak out sex party opening. It's like a go go club.

525
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 3: We've seen this in movies from the sixties before. They

526
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 3: try to put you right in the middle of a

527
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 3: swinging happening go go club to like get your mind

528
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 3: right where it needs to be for the feeling of

529
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 3: the movie.

530
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 2: And with strong cabaret elements. I think as well, like

531
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 2: this is where this is where the counterculture happens. This

532
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 2: is where the bohemi and vibe is strong.

533
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 3: That's right. So it's a feeling of the sixties, a

534
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 3: feeling of cultural and sexual energy. But I think also Rob,

535
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 3: I don't know if you detected the same thing. There's

536
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 3: kind of a point of view the camera takes that

537
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 3: implies some kind of distance or hesitation, maybe like it's

538
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 3: it's celebrating everything that's going on in the club, but

539
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 3: it's also a little bit afraid. Maybe it's like this

540
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 3: this is an alluring but also a dangerous and confusing

541
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 3: frontier of freedom and pleasure.

542
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, as we'll see, there's danger here and there's sadness

543
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 2: here as well.

544
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 3: In fact, that sort of point of view of the

545
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 3: camera maybe the point of view of the character we're

546
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 3: about to meet, because we go to this man, a

547
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 3: lonely looking man, sitting at a table overlooking the dance

548
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 3: floor in this freak out go Go club, and we

549
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 3: hear his voiceover. He says, I came here by mere chance.

550
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 3: A friend said he would guide me to a secret club.

551
00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 4: This.

552
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 3: We never see the friend, by the way, do we Yeah?

553
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 3: He says, this was a world unknown to me until

554
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 3: a gaudy crime dragged me into it. And then suddenly

555
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 3: everything stops. The action freezes and darkness falls over the

556
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,959
Speaker 3: go go club, and then there is somber, humming music,

557
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 3: and then we see Black Lizard in three forms. First

558
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 3: the character so we see Akihiro Miwa in jewels with

559
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 3: a cigarette holder, and then the image of a black

560
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 3: Lizard silhouette, and then the title Black Lizard. Now I

561
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 3: warned there would be spoilers. Technically, the character we are

562
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 3: meeting here is not revealed to be black Lizard the

563
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 3: titular criminal until a twist that comes later. But I

564
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 3: was in no suspense at all about this, and I

565
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 3: wonder if the audience is supposed to be in suspense

566
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 3: at all. It seems to me one hundred percent clear

567
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 3: from the very first frame of seeing Black Lizard that

568
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 3: she is Black Lizard.

569
00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 2: I think so. Like from what I watched the sixty

570
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 2: two ADAP takes, I felt like it was maybe a

571
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 2: little less obvious, but here it's clear and been. Part

572
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 2: of that may be the fact that, Yeah, you have me,

573
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 2: this famous individual playing this title character, and you know

574
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 2: there are gonna be several twists in the film that

575
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 2: I think most viewers will see coming a mile away.

576
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 2: But it doesn't feel like a limitation. In a film

577
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 2: like this, A twist may be telegraphed, but what sort

578
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 2: of feast will the film make of the twist.

579
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, so there's a dark, mysterious melody as the credits play.

580
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 3: I think this may be Black Lizard singing. Actually, I

581
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 3: think so.

582
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 2: I wasn't sure when I first watched it, but then afterwards,

583
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 2: when I was diving more into me was musical credentials. Yeah,

584
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 2: I assume this is his actual singing voice because he

585
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 2: put out all these albums and so forth. So yeah,

586
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 2: it belts out of tune.

587
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 3: So Black Lizard. After the credits, Black Lizard navigates the

588
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 3: club and comes up to meet the lonely man sitting

589
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 3: at the table above, and Black Lizard says, this is

590
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 3: an unusual night, an oppressive night, a night made for crime.

591
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 3: I love a night like this. Sleep won't come easily tonight.

592
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 3: And you So the lonely man tells her he's impressed

593
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 3: by her words. He's like, wow, you are a poetess.

594
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,360
Speaker 3: And Black Lizard says, are you a critic because beauty

595
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 3: fails to intoxicate you? Your eyes tell me that.

596
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 2: And this is a catchy she's talking to This is

597
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 2: the number one detective, right.

598
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:25,400
Speaker 3: Yes, But then Black Lizard backs off of a catchy

599
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 3: and goes to visit a different man at the bar.

600
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 3: She goes up to this sad looking guy and says,

601
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 3: thinking of death?

602
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 4: Are you?

603
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 3: And she then seemingly telekinetically moves his whiskey glass to

604
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,799
Speaker 3: the edge of the table until it falls and shatters.

605
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,799
Speaker 3: I'm not sure what's going on here, but I like it.

606
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a great weird moment. That is important

607
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:50,359
Speaker 2: because we come back to it. But I guess it's

608
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,759
Speaker 2: like a here as a metaphor or a splash of

609
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 2: magical realism, because there's nothing else to indicate that this

610
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 2: character has any kind of telekinetic I think it's just

611
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 2: to convey the charismatic power of the Black Lizard. You know,

612
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 2: I don't know, the inevitable trajectory of unobtainable obsessions. Yeah,

613
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 2: the film plays it marvelously vague. But again, it is

614
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 2: important because we'll come back to it.

615
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's an ambiguous question about the presence of the

616
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:23,240
Speaker 3: supernatural in this film. The movie is, you know, ninety

617
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 3: nine percent grounded in realism, but there are a few

618
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:29,800
Speaker 3: things in it that are like, wait, was that magic

619
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 3: or not? I can't tell. So there's the whiskey glass telekinesis.

620
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,959
Speaker 3: There's the lady with yellow eyes who the snake Lady later,

621
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:39,879
Speaker 3: who sometimes seems to maybe do magic or I don't

622
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 3: know what's going on with her snake eyes. The statues

623
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:46,239
Speaker 3: at the end of the movie, which are people, They

624
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:50,240
Speaker 3: appear to be frozen in some way that almost suggests magic,

625
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 3: but it's not clear.

626
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, So there are a few moments like that,

627
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 2: and it keeps things wild and unpredictable as well.

628
00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 3: Anyway, the man at the table, who was allegedly thinking

629
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,879
Speaker 3: of death leaves the club with black Lizard, and then

630
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:06,439
Speaker 3: we smash cut to a newspaper headline that tells us

631
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:11,799
Speaker 3: a quote despondent young musician has died by suicide. And

632
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 3: then we also see a different article in the newspaper

633
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:20,760
Speaker 3: that a corpse was stolen from a medical dissection room

634
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 3: at the Morgue. Right, yes, okay, So then detective at

635
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,720
Speaker 3: catche is suddenly there. He is at the Morgue looking

636
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 3: into it and finds there is a toy black lizard

637
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 3: at the scene.

638
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:35,319
Speaker 2: Yeap peels it right off the floor there.

639
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 3: And then also, what is the deal with all these

640
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:41,320
Speaker 3: cadavers floating in like a tank of dark green liquid?

641
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 3: This is so weird.

642
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, I found this creepy, but I don't know, like,

643
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 2: maybe this is actually how it was done. At the time,

644
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 2: I have no idea, and I have to admit I

645
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 2: was reluctant to go down the goolish avenue of researching it.

646
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:55,840
Speaker 2: I was like, I don't know, I'm just gonna accept

647
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:57,799
Speaker 2: it as is. Maybe I'll come back and look into

648
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 2: it later, but at least within the context of the film,

649
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 2: this is just where they put recently dead bodies instead

650
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:05,760
Speaker 2: of having like freezers, the sort of freezer drawer scene

651
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 2: that we're accustomed to. Instead we have the vat scene

652
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:10,319
Speaker 2: that we have here.

653
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 3: But anyway, okay, so all this is sort of prologued

654
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:15,879
Speaker 3: to the main caper of the film, which is the

655
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:19,360
Speaker 3: iwasa kidnapping and the Star of Egypt.

656
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 2: I only looked this up just before we came in

657
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:25,320
Speaker 2: to record, but the Star of Egypt is an actual diamond.

658
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 2: I was reading about it on Christie's. It first appeared

659
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:31,719
Speaker 2: on the London market in nineteen thirty nine. There's a

660
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 2: listing for it on Christie's. I think it recently sold

661
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:37,279
Speaker 2: for you know, several million dollars, so it's it's a

662
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:40,799
Speaker 2: real thing, not just a made up gym.

663
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:45,280
Speaker 3: So we get into act one here with the main plot,

664
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 3: and it is that Detective Atketchi has been hired by

665
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 3: a rich man named iwasa to protect his daughter Senne,

666
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:58,319
Speaker 3: who has been threatened with kidnapping. I think they get

667
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:00,359
Speaker 3: a note in the mail or something saying that she's

668
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 3: going to be kidnapped, and so they hide out in

669
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:06,359
Speaker 3: a hotel room under the supervision of a ketchee who

670
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:09,520
Speaker 3: intends to set a trap for the would be kidnappers.

671
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:12,880
Speaker 2: That's right, number one detective in Japan, the most expensive,

672
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:14,399
Speaker 2: only the best for this guy's daughter.

673
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 3: Now, technically, even though we said it's clear who Black

674
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 3: Lizard is at this point in the plot, Black Lizard

675
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:24,400
Speaker 3: has not been revealed and is in disguise as a

676
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 3: woman named Midori Kawa. And so this is how she's

677
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 3: known to a ketchee from the club. You know, he

678
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 3: knows her as Midori Kawa. And then we go to

679
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:37,839
Speaker 3: the hotel lounge where Sinay is hanging out. And then

680
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:41,359
Speaker 3: also Midori Kawa and a handsome, well dressed man named

681
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:45,240
Speaker 3: Yamakawa are getting to know Sinay. They like they're talking

682
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 3: to her in the hotel bar. For some reason, Sinay

683
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 3: has been permitted to hang out at the bar by herself,

684
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:53,399
Speaker 3: even though she's being targeted by kidnappers.

685
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's weird. It was the same way in

686
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 2: the sixty two versions, So I guess it's straight from

687
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 2: the play and or book. Maybe the bar is considered

688
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:05,920
Speaker 2: a safe public zone, or maybe Medora Kawa is just seeming.

689
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 2: She's just such a long time trusted client of dads

690
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 2: that you know she's perfectly safe as long as she's

691
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:12,399
Speaker 2: with her.

692
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 3: But Midori Kawa is being so creepy. It is like

693
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 3: she's like, hey, did you play volleyball in college? I

694
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:21,760
Speaker 3: would like to possess your body as a doll.

695
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:24,799
Speaker 2: She's like, if I told you had a beautiful body,

696
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 2: would you hold it against me if I preserved you

697
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:33,399
Speaker 2: in a perfect soul? Estate more poetic than that, but yeah, yeah,

698
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:36,840
Speaker 2: but Black Lizard is always hitting on folks.

699
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 3: Yes, So Midori Kawa and her accomplice they lure Sina

700
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:45,839
Speaker 3: back to a room in the hotel, I think, on

701
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:49,399
Speaker 3: the promise of showing her like an antique doll. They're like, oh,

702
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 3: we have this interesting artifact, and she's like, okay, I'll

703
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 3: go look at it. But of course they kidnap her.

704
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 3: They like chloroform her and then stuff her into a

705
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:00,160
Speaker 3: trunk and back.

706
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 2: Lizard is also like, go ahead and take her clothes off.

707
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, for no particular reason, Well.

708
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:07,440
Speaker 2: Didn't she does he change into those clothes. There's kind

709
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 2: of an initial fake out that I think maybe initially

710
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:15,399
Speaker 2: she replaces Snae in Sanna's clothes with her back turned

711
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:18,319
Speaker 2: to her father, and then they end up replacing her

712
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:21,759
Speaker 2: in bed with the very dummy that you know would

713
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 2: have been the doll in the box originally, that's why

714
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:26,880
Speaker 2: it is okay, yeah, but it is also played for

715
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 2: you know, yeah, for for more alluring purposes here too.

716
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:33,880
Speaker 3: So also somewhere in here, Yamakawa is revealed to be

717
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 3: Unichi a'ma mia. This was the same guy, the despondent

718
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:41,440
Speaker 3: young man at the club earlier, right, yes, yeah, this

719
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,360
Speaker 3: is now Black Lizard's accomplice. And of course we know

720
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:48,239
Speaker 3: Midori Kawa is Black Lizard, but we are to understand

721
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 3: the detective Aketchi does not know. So they pull a

722
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:57,400
Speaker 3: clever maneuver. Amamiya takes Sannae inside the trunk and boards

723
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 3: a train going to some other city while Black Lizard

724
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:04,240
Speaker 3: stays at the hotel, and she tricks Iwase into thinking

725
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,239
Speaker 3: that Sennae is totally safe in the hotel room. First,

726
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 3: she like throws her voice and poses as her, like,

727
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 3: pretending to be her from the other room, and I

728
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 3: guess ita is He's like not, I don't know. He's

729
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 3: not thrown off by the fact that this is not

730
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 3: his daughter's voice.

731
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 2: Right, or it's a perfect replica for voice somehow, I

732
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:25,280
Speaker 2: don't know. At any rate it works.

733
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:28,839
Speaker 3: And then she tricks him into thinking that Senne is

734
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 3: in her bed in the hotel room. It will later

735
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 3: be revealed that it's a huge doll under the blankets.

736
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:39,360
Speaker 3: But he Oh, but Black Lizard has a message delivered

737
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 3: stating that Senne will be kidnapped exactly at midnight. So

738
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 3: while it wasa sleeps soundly thinking that Sennae is asleep nearby,

739
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 3: a catchy stands guard in the living room of the

740
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 3: hotel suite, passing the time by hanging out with Black Lizard,

741
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 3: not knowing who she is. And this leads to a

742
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:02,560
Speaker 3: great dialogue see where Black Lizard again in disguises. Midori

743
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:07,240
Speaker 3: Kawa and Detective Aketchi play cards and talk about crime

744
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 3: and love and their careers and their character. A lot

745
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 3: of really fun dialogue here. Just one example is they

746
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 3: start talking about like what it takes to make a criminal,

747
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:23,520
Speaker 3: and Akechi says, consider three women. A man gives a

748
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 3: woman a bouquet of roses. A caterpillar crawls out from

749
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 3: between the petals. Disgusted, the woman throws the bouquet into

750
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 3: the fireplace. Akechi says, this woman does not have what

751
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 3: it takes to be a criminal. Now consider a second woman,

752
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:41,960
Speaker 3: same thing. She gets the flowers, caterpillar crawls out of

753
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 3: the flower. Instead of throwing the flowers into the fire,

754
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:48,720
Speaker 3: she plucks out the caterpillar and throws it alone into

755
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:52,320
Speaker 3: the flames. Akechi says, she also is not a criminal.

756
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 3: But consider a third woman. She sees the caterpillar crawl

757
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:59,239
Speaker 3: out of the blossom, she throws neither the flowers nor

758
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 3: the insect. Instead, she pushes the man who gave her

759
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 3: the flowers into the flames. Akechi says, this woman can

760
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:11,240
Speaker 3: be a criminal, but ironically she is the most tenderhearted

761
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 3: of the three.

762
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 2: I'd be lying if I said that I one percent

763
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 2: understood what the point is here. But I still love it,

764
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:20,240
Speaker 2: and I do want to see a line of black

765
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 2: Lizard Valentine's Day cards. Based on this and other quotes

766
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:23,920
Speaker 2: from the film.

767
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 3: I think Aketche is making some kind of point about

768
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:30,320
Speaker 3: like passion and boldness, that it's like the same thing,

769
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 3: the same thing that makes someone that have the deepest

770
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 3: kind of love is also what makes someone the most

771
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 3: like violent and dangerous.

772
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 2: Oh okay, so maybe we're getting back into the territory

773
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:45,799
Speaker 2: here of, you know, of believing that crime should wear

774
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:48,839
Speaker 2: a gorgeous gown with a train fifteen feet long, both

775
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:52,240
Speaker 2: stylistically but also in terms of passion somehow.

776
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:56,280
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, they also talk. So they start playing cards

777
00:43:56,320 --> 00:44:00,319
Speaker 3: and they put a wager up. Aketchi is like, oh, well,

778
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 3: you know you're you're rich. I can't really bet against

779
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 3: you because you've got all this money, and Black Lizard says, well,

780
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 3: I'll bet all my jewels, but you have to bet

781
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:11,720
Speaker 3: your career as a detective. So I guess if Black

782
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 3: Lizard wins the card game, a Catchee will no longer

783
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 3: get to be Japan's number one detective.

784
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:18,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a great scene, and I love the

785
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,000
Speaker 2: way it was shot too. They're like playing on a

786
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:22,840
Speaker 2: glass countertop, I believe, and so we get some wonderful

787
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 2: shots from below up through the card game as it's

788
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 2: taking place, and yeah, it's I believe. It's in this

789
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 2: scene that we get a lot of contemplation about the

790
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:38,479
Speaker 2: idea that aketche is like the negative photo of a criminal. Yeah,

791
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 2: and in a way, even though although Aketchi doesn't know

792
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:45,279
Speaker 2: that he's playing cards with the Black Lizards. Yeah, this

793
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:47,799
Speaker 2: is very much a we're much the same you and

794
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:50,440
Speaker 2: I speech that has become a standard trope, but it's

795
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 2: constructed in a fresh way. It has a very fresh

796
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:54,799
Speaker 2: feeling to it.

797
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:58,560
Speaker 3: This is better than most I mean it. This comes

798
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:01,319
Speaker 3: before things that would make same point later. I think

799
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 3: you know, this is sort of the same point made

800
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 3: in like Manhunter about the Thomas Harris character Will Graham.

801
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:12,320
Speaker 3: It's like that he is able to think like a killer,

802
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:15,239
Speaker 3: or think like a criminal, and that's what makes him

803
00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:17,839
Speaker 3: a great detective, and Black Lizards saying the same thing

804
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:19,799
Speaker 3: to a catchy here. It's that like, in order to

805
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:23,000
Speaker 3: be a great detective, you must be able to think

806
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:23,840
Speaker 3: like a criminal.

807
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:26,920
Speaker 2: Now is this the place I may be skipping around?

808
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:29,160
Speaker 2: I may be thinking about something earlier or later. But

809
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 2: there's one part where Black Lizard has an extended monologue

810
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 2: anguishing over the fact that beauty must age and that

811
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:39,840
Speaker 2: is the ultimate tragedy, and therefore she pines for a

812
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 2: soulless existence and the heart made of pure, made as

813
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:46,880
Speaker 2: pure and unbreakable as a diamond, both in her in

814
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:48,960
Speaker 2: herself but also in others.

815
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 3: I think Yeah, it might be the scene.

816
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:55,160
Speaker 2: Yeah either way, Like the Quest for the Diamond Heart

817
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:58,319
Speaker 2: is one of the central themes of the film that

818
00:45:58,360 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 2: we come back to again and again.

819
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:02,360
Speaker 3: And this is the scene where Black Lizard and a

820
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 3: Catchy do seem to be falling in love. Yes, but

821
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:08,800
Speaker 3: then remember the thing was supposed to be. He's standing

822
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 3: guard there until the kidnapping, which is supposed to come

823
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 3: at midnight, And midnight comes and nothing happens. What gives

824
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 3: Sannae's absence at this point is revealed. They go in

825
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:21,359
Speaker 3: and like pull back the covers on the bed and oh,

826
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:24,520
Speaker 3: it's just a doll in there. But it's a double

827
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:28,400
Speaker 3: twist because we find out a catchy knew all along.

828
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 3: He lets his men run into the room and he

829
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:34,840
Speaker 3: reveals that he knew that Senne had already been taken

830
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 3: and he had his men collect the trunk and bring

831
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 3: her back.

832
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 2: Yeah again, Black Lizard really does feel like the main

833
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:42,560
Speaker 2: character in all of this, in part because we're generally

834
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:46,440
Speaker 2: clued into what her plans are far more than a catchy's.

835
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:49,960
Speaker 2: Like a catchy ultimately ends up being like two steps

836
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:52,919
Speaker 2: ahead of even the viewer. And I guess this corresponds

837
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:56,680
Speaker 2: to the often observed soft rule of caper films, and

838
00:46:56,719 --> 00:46:58,920
Speaker 2: that you lay out all the beats of the caper

839
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:01,720
Speaker 2: that's going to ultimately fail, but you reveal the beats

840
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:08,040
Speaker 2: of a successful caper in its very real time execution. Again,

841
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 2: a catchy is essentially Sherlock Holmes here. He is a master,

842
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 2: you know, figuring out the criminal scheme and then trying

843
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:17,920
Speaker 2: to be ahead of that. And I wonder too if

844
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:20,720
Speaker 2: that adds to why we might be rooting for Black Lizard,

845
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:23,399
Speaker 2: because it's like, if you don't know who a catchy is,

846
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 2: he's just another detective. But if you know that he's

847
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:28,960
Speaker 2: the master detective, then you kind of know the fixes

848
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:31,960
Speaker 2: in from the beginning, like this is an unbeatable adversary

849
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:34,000
Speaker 2: for Black Lizard, and therefore maybe we root for her

850
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:34,719
Speaker 2: a little bit more.

851
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, later in the story they do try to

852
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 3: get ahead of that by showing a catchy like doing

853
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:46,279
Speaker 3: something sneaky and you think that he's being he's being

854
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:50,920
Speaker 3: caught getting one over on on Black Lizard, and then

855
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:53,080
Speaker 3: she gets one over on him. But then there's like

856
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 3: a triple twist where it's like, oh no, he actually

857
00:47:55,719 --> 00:48:00,840
Speaker 3: was there all along, Yes, but Anyway, Sola escapes this

858
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 3: trap by stealing a catche's gun from his coat pocket,

859
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 3: using it to escape the hotel room, and then she

860
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:10,879
Speaker 3: gets out of the hotel by disguising herself as a man.

861
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a fun sequence, and I guess really

862
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 2: the only nod that we see to me was drag performance.

863
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:16,640
Speaker 2: I suppose.

864
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, So on to fight another day. So this sort

865
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 3: of gives way to Act two of the movie, the

866
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:34,440
Speaker 3: previous plot having been foiled, we cut to the home

867
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:38,760
Speaker 3: of Iwasa where Black Lizard is determined to strike again.

868
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:41,880
Speaker 3: So this middle sequence of the movie involves Black Lizard's

869
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:46,400
Speaker 3: second attempt at kidnapping Sinne and using the leverage of

870
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:50,040
Speaker 3: her kidnapping to acquire the jeweled necklace the Star of Egypt.

871
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:53,720
Speaker 3: So we meet a large cast of Hinchman here, hired

872
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:57,800
Speaker 3: by Awasa to protect the family. The gang is commanded

873
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 3: by a new private detective met And so there's like

874
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:04,600
Speaker 3: a furniture delivery truck that arrives at the house and

875
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:07,919
Speaker 3: we see the whole gang run out to like menace them.

876
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:12,360
Speaker 3: The delivery guys seem very frightened, but then they decide

877
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:14,799
Speaker 3: it's okay, you know, it's a beautiful new futon that

878
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 3: IWASA did apparently actually order. So they bring it inside.

879
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:20,080
Speaker 3: They talk about how it cost a bazillion bucks and

880
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:22,839
Speaker 3: so forth, and the whole time Matoba is there just

881
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 3: looking like he's just a statue.

882
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:27,479
Speaker 2: He's great, just scowling the whole time.

883
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:30,880
Speaker 3: Now, I think at this point we're supposed to believe

884
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:33,840
Speaker 3: Aketchy has been dismissed from the case, or maybe he

885
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:34,879
Speaker 3: actually has been.

886
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:38,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know if he's like been completely pushed out,

887
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:43,360
Speaker 2: but yeah, it's Matoba is now seemingly in charge of things,

888
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:46,839
Speaker 2: and he seems a little rth that a catch. He's

889
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 2: even showing up. It's like, no, you failed, dude, I'm

890
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:50,640
Speaker 2: I'm I'm top now.

891
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:54,440
Speaker 3: But later that night there is an attack from inside

892
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 3: the house. I think it's Matoba catches. Itwasa's housekeeper, Hena

893
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:04,160
Speaker 3: sending secret coded messages to someone via radio. She's like

894
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 3: talking into a radio, saying like the sea is a

895
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:10,960
Speaker 3: flame and stuff like that. But the tables are turned.

896
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 3: How exactly is it revealed? Is it that Hena and

897
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:17,880
Speaker 3: the big lug Hinchman guy both gang up on Matoba.

898
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:21,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know if Matoba vetted these henchmen, but yeah,

899
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:23,800
Speaker 2: it's like they all were in the pocket of Black Lizard.

900
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:27,200
Speaker 2: We'll find out. So, yeah, everybody's looking working for Black

901
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:29,239
Speaker 2: Lizard here except for Matoba.

902
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:32,759
Speaker 3: And this is the first reveal of Hena's like powers

903
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:35,640
Speaker 3: and snake associations. What's the deal with this lady?

904
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:38,759
Speaker 2: Oh? I mean this is again? Is it magic? Is it?

905
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:42,319
Speaker 2: Is it metaphor what's going on here? I don't know,

906
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:46,800
Speaker 2: but it's tremendous because we see, yeah, her eyes glitter, yellow,

907
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:52,080
Speaker 2: demon's fire. She flings constricting snakes as a weapon. So

908
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:55,400
Speaker 2: we've watched movies with projectile snakes before on the show,

909
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:58,600
Speaker 2: namely nineteen eighty one's Venom, where we get to see

910
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:01,960
Speaker 2: Klauskinsky with a rubber snake, and it's the kind of

911
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:05,239
Speaker 2: thing that can easily look very rubber and fake. But

912
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:08,400
Speaker 2: I totally bought her and her snake bolos as a

913
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:11,839
Speaker 2: legitimate threat. So like she leaps out, you know, cool

914
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:15,280
Speaker 2: lighting on her face and eyes, lands this constricting snake

915
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:19,400
Speaker 2: right around Matoba's neck, and the actor Nishi Mura just

916
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:22,720
Speaker 2: sells the living daylights out of it, just thrashing around

917
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:25,520
Speaker 2: against the walls, trying to pull the snake off of

918
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:26,240
Speaker 2: his throat.

919
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:29,040
Speaker 3: Oh but it doesn't end there, right, everybody comes out

920
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:32,520
Speaker 3: because of the commotion, and then they find what they

921
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:34,520
Speaker 3: find black Lizard's calling card.

922
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 2: Here, right, there's the rubber lizard, but it is on

923
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:40,760
Speaker 2: the palm of a disembodied hand that is on the couch,

924
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:42,560
Speaker 2: which is now bloodied. They're gonna have to get rid

925
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:46,960
Speaker 2: of that thing. And then they find Matoba in the bathtub,

926
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:50,480
Speaker 2: like seemingly dead. I don't know, I can't remember if

927
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:51,880
Speaker 2: he still has a snake on his neck or not,

928
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:54,799
Speaker 2: but he has a bloody stump. This is clearly his

929
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:57,719
Speaker 2: hand out there, left on the couch with the with

930
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:01,160
Speaker 2: the calling card on it. But the like there's several

931
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:02,960
Speaker 2: you know, guys looking in on this scene. And then

932
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 2: Matoba rises up out of the tub like a like

933
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:10,360
Speaker 2: a rampaging zombie and comes rushing towards them with the stump,

934
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:13,279
Speaker 2: and they all freak out and slam the door on

935
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:16,239
Speaker 2: him as he thrust his bloody stump out through the

936
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:19,600
Speaker 2: door after him, and then he finally busts through into

937
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 2: the hallway, slumps against the wall, slumps down and dies

938
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 2: just a legit jaw dropping sequence from me that that

939
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:31,359
Speaker 2: scene is true, deeply crazy. I don't know, it's it's

940
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:33,840
Speaker 2: really good. Yeah, it's like there's a lot of dialogue,

941
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:36,440
Speaker 2: but then when the movie busts out these action sequences

942
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:38,319
Speaker 2: like this, it's just they really go for it.

943
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:40,320
Speaker 3: But as you mentioned, this all part of the plot.

944
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:44,920
Speaker 3: The uh, of course, the attack gets blood all over

945
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 3: the expensive new futon and in the middle of Senne

946
00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:52,719
Speaker 3: having been kidnapped again and all that, Uh, they're like,

947
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:55,680
Speaker 3: oh wow, well get the get this bloody futon out

948
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:56,200
Speaker 3: of the house.

949
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 2: Yeap, what do you know? And this is and we

950
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:02,400
Speaker 2: know what's up right, I mean, this is another most twists.

951
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:04,840
Speaker 2: You know that they hit her in that couch, but

952
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:08,240
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter. Like this all plays out like a

953
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:10,680
Speaker 2: like a myth, like a like a fairy tale, and

954
00:53:10,719 --> 00:53:11,520
Speaker 2: you just follow it.

955
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:16,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, so there is. They're setting up an exchange at

956
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:19,239
Speaker 3: the pier, so Black Lizard promises that Senay will be

957
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:23,160
Speaker 3: returned safely if iwasa gives up the Star of Egypt

958
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:26,880
Speaker 3: at a drop off point at the port, and he does.

959
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:29,759
Speaker 3: He shows up with the jewels, but Black Lizard is

960
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:33,000
Speaker 3: treacherous and does not return his daughter because it seems

961
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:36,240
Speaker 3: like Black Lizard wants Sinnay even more than she wants

962
00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:36,880
Speaker 3: the jewels.

963
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:41,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so she's just gonna keep them both. So sorry,

964
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:45,440
Speaker 2: you've been double crossed. But Black Lizard gets what Black Lizard.

965
00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 3: Wants and this leads to a chase with like private

966
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:52,280
Speaker 3: detectives and cars and these motorcycle henchmen with smoke screens.

967
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:55,400
Speaker 3: These movies of the time really loved a like multi

968
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:59,320
Speaker 3: colored smoke screen getaway that's in danger diabolic as well.

969
00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:04,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, this whole sequence was very danger diabolic. But they

970
00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:06,120
Speaker 2: and this is one of those things we have to note.

971
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 2: They get away but sort of don't like we have

972
00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:12,800
Speaker 2: to again do all the math of Aketche's scheming and

973
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:17,319
Speaker 2: counter scheming versus Black lizards scheming and counter scheming. The

974
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:18,920
Speaker 2: viewer is just along for the ride.

975
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:22,360
Speaker 3: So Black Lizard escapes to her steamership with both Sennae

976
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:25,479
Speaker 3: and the jewels. But will Aketchi be able to save

977
00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:28,239
Speaker 3: the day? And here we go to a scene in

978
00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:33,720
Speaker 3: Black Lizard's cabin on the boat that can you describe

979
00:54:33,719 --> 00:54:34,160
Speaker 3: this realm?

980
00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:37,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we know the deal with this futon. This

981
00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:41,000
Speaker 2: is how they just kidnapped her successfully for the second time,

982
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:46,200
Speaker 2: and here's the couch that the futon in Black Lizard's chambers,

983
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:50,120
Speaker 2: and she begins to realize what we the viewers suspect

984
00:54:50,239 --> 00:54:54,600
Speaker 2: that Aketchie has hidden himself in that futon, and so

985
00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:57,600
Speaker 2: she starts speaking to him in there. She has her

986
00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:01,880
Speaker 2: her game come in and like strap the dow straps

987
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:04,759
Speaker 2: around the futon so that he can't get out, and

988
00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:09,000
Speaker 2: then she sends the gang back outside, and she kind

989
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:11,920
Speaker 2: of gets this like this this tender sequence where she

990
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:16,600
Speaker 2: speaks to Aketchee imprisoned in the futon. She reveals her

991
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:19,080
Speaker 2: love to him, as well as her great fear of

992
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:21,880
Speaker 2: that love, fear for what will change in her, because

993
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:25,359
Speaker 2: it is all the antithesis of the diamond heart. You know.

994
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:27,880
Speaker 2: It's like if I give into my love for you,

995
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:31,680
Speaker 2: then then I'm changing in a frightening way, and I

996
00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:34,560
Speaker 2: can't have that, you know. And also you're my enemy,

997
00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:37,839
Speaker 2: so either way, I'm gonna have to kill you. And

998
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:41,120
Speaker 2: so that's what she seemingly does. She runs the couch

999
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:44,440
Speaker 2: through with a sword from the wall. Blood drips out

1000
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:46,840
Speaker 2: onto the floor. At that Up until that point, I

1001
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:48,919
Speaker 2: wasn't sure it even had anyone in there, because that's

1002
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:51,680
Speaker 2: the thing. You know, Aketchi's not in there really, you know,

1003
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:54,920
Speaker 2: he's a tape recorder or something. But blood comes out,

1004
00:55:55,080 --> 00:55:58,240
Speaker 2: and then she has the gang throw the skewered straps

1005
00:55:58,280 --> 00:55:59,919
Speaker 2: sofa overboard into the wace.

1006
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:03,760
Speaker 3: We see it like disappearing rapidly into the dark water

1007
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:05,880
Speaker 3: behind the ship. It's a very evocative shot.

1008
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:08,120
Speaker 2: And she's out there on the deck, you know, feeling

1009
00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:11,200
Speaker 2: a bit melancholy by herself. And then a new character emerges,

1010
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:14,560
Speaker 2: who we quickly learn is a trusted hunchback com minion

1011
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:19,920
Speaker 2: of hers, and he kind of like you know, saunters

1012
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:23,080
Speaker 2: up onto the deck there and he apologizes to her

1013
00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:25,080
Speaker 2: for not having been there when all this went down.

1014
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:27,840
Speaker 2: He says, I was asleep. He offers some comfort and

1015
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:29,960
Speaker 2: she's like that that's nice. I appreciate it, but I

1016
00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:32,239
Speaker 2: need some time alone. And of course this is one

1017
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:33,560
Speaker 2: of those moments we're already like.

1018
00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:38,000
Speaker 3: Hmm, yeah hm about this guy. We're never seeing his face,

1019
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:40,920
Speaker 3: like his face is always downturned. Wonder about that.

1020
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:45,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you will have your suspicions. Those suspicions may

1021
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:48,399
Speaker 2: prove correct, but again in this film, it doesn't matter.

1022
00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:50,480
Speaker 2: You're along for the ride. Because if this, if you

1023
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:53,880
Speaker 2: suspect that this hunch back is actually a catchy okay,

1024
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:56,680
Speaker 2: then the question is when will he dramatically reveal himself?

1025
00:56:56,719 --> 00:56:58,640
Speaker 2: And that's what we're we're on board for.

1026
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:01,279
Speaker 3: So we're here at Act three where we make it

1027
00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:06,000
Speaker 3: all the way to Black Lizard's Fortress of fortress of

1028
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:12,120
Speaker 3: I don't know of Crimtude. Yeah. So the ship arrives

1029
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:15,080
Speaker 3: and Rob, can you describe this place? I would kind

1030
00:57:15,080 --> 00:57:19,280
Speaker 3: of compare it a bit to Scare Manga's Layer in

1031
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:20,680
Speaker 3: The Man with the Golden Gun.

1032
00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:24,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it is. It is a campy de light

1033
00:57:24,440 --> 00:57:27,200
Speaker 2: that brings that to mind. It brings to mind the

1034
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:33,120
Speaker 2: various layers of doctor fibes as well as danger diabolic fibes.

1035
00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:35,040
Speaker 2: Would very much approve of this because it's essentially a

1036
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:39,720
Speaker 2: cabaret ballroom where we see the taxidermied or otherwise preserved,

1037
00:57:39,960 --> 00:57:42,080
Speaker 2: you know, the exact science that this doesn't matter, the

1038
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:46,120
Speaker 2: preserved bodies of the beautiful ones that she's collected on display,

1039
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:49,560
Speaker 2: these dolls, wax figures, however you want to make them.

1040
00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:53,640
Speaker 2: There are all these curtains we see these often topless figures,

1041
00:57:54,320 --> 00:57:57,240
Speaker 2: and as always in these films, these are of course films.

1042
00:57:57,280 --> 00:57:59,920
Speaker 2: These are of course live actors frozen and still live,

1043
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:02,800
Speaker 2: which just compounds the creepiness of the situation.

1044
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:07,840
Speaker 3: So she's like going through here showing Sinnay all of

1045
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:11,840
Speaker 3: these these frozen people, and it's leading up to the

1046
00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:14,880
Speaker 3: explanation that, like, Senay, I'm going to make you one

1047
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:16,720
Speaker 3: of my frozen wax dolls here.

1048
00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:19,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we see that one of the main tableaus,

1049
00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:22,360
Speaker 2: because they're all posed in dramatic poses, you know, it's

1050
00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:24,920
Speaker 2: like a wax museum. One of the tableaux concerns a

1051
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:29,600
Speaker 2: pair of knife fighters, with a particularly absolutely jacked combatant

1052
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:34,200
Speaker 2: like just you know, rippling muscles, stabbing his opponent in

1053
00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:38,720
Speaker 2: mid grapple. The shirtless stabber here is played by Mashima,

1054
00:58:39,240 --> 00:58:42,080
Speaker 2: and a brief backstory is kind of revealed visually where

1055
00:58:42,080 --> 00:58:44,800
Speaker 2: we it looks like these two men were made to

1056
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:48,840
Speaker 2: fight to the death for Black Lizard's affections, and I

1057
00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:52,640
Speaker 2: guess both both victor and the defeated here end up

1058
00:58:53,480 --> 00:58:55,600
Speaker 2: being immortalized as a doll.

1059
00:58:55,840 --> 00:58:57,479
Speaker 3: I didn't know if there was a victor. It looked

1060
00:58:57,480 --> 00:58:59,680
Speaker 3: like they were both stabbing each other at the same time.

1061
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:03,760
Speaker 2: Oh okay, they well, in a way then I guess

1062
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:07,479
Speaker 2: they both lost and boast both won, because that's the thing.

1063
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:10,560
Speaker 2: You lose and that you die, but you win to

1064
00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:13,520
Speaker 2: a certain extent in that you are immortalized in Black

1065
00:59:13,520 --> 00:59:18,640
Speaker 2: Lizard's layer and in this form without life, without a soul,

1066
00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:21,080
Speaker 2: then you know you have come as close to the

1067
00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:26,280
Speaker 2: Diamond Heart as possible and therefore are deserving of her

1068
00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:27,280
Speaker 2: true affections.

1069
00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:29,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, it seems that men are just sort of like

1070
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:34,280
Speaker 3: lining up to die for Black Lizard and be preserved

1071
00:59:34,320 --> 00:59:37,680
Speaker 3: as a statue in her layer forever. They're ready for it.

1072
00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:40,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and women too. I guess it's like men and

1073
00:59:40,040 --> 00:59:44,240
Speaker 2: women on display. But this is this moment where again

1074
00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:49,640
Speaker 2: it's far more than cameo because the jacked stabber played

1075
00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:53,920
Speaker 2: by Mashima here, she moves in and she kisses him

1076
00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:56,720
Speaker 2: on the lips in what is I think the only

1077
00:59:57,240 --> 00:59:59,720
Speaker 2: kiss that we see in the picture. Could be wrong

1078
00:59:59,800 --> 01:00:02,000
Speaker 2: on that, but it certainly is the most important one,

1079
01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:04,920
Speaker 2: and it's a really powerful moment and a moment that

1080
01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:09,000
Speaker 2: is also very crushing for the musician i'm A Miya

1081
01:00:09,080 --> 01:00:12,200
Speaker 2: who is watching on because this is what causes him

1082
01:00:12,280 --> 01:00:15,080
Speaker 2: to turn against Black Lizard because he tries to help

1083
01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:18,600
Speaker 2: Sana briefly locking the master criminal in her own cell.

1084
01:00:19,120 --> 01:00:22,000
Speaker 2: But then we eventually learned that this kiss didn't so

1085
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:25,400
Speaker 2: much as turn him against Black Lizard. He's not like, oh,

1086
01:00:25,680 --> 01:00:29,120
Speaker 2: I'm really not into you, you know, kissing the preserved

1087
01:00:29,120 --> 01:00:33,040
Speaker 2: bodies of dead men. No, it made him turn against

1088
01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:36,320
Speaker 2: Black Lizard because he realized the only way to fulfill

1089
01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:40,200
Speaker 2: his obsession was through death. A bold action like this

1090
01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:43,439
Speaker 2: he hopes will result first in his death and then

1091
01:00:43,560 --> 01:00:46,080
Speaker 2: in his immortalization as one of her dolls.

1092
01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:51,120
Speaker 3: Right, so he's like, now I'm just the unappreciated lackey

1093
01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:55,280
Speaker 3: of Black Lizard, But he realizes that she truly loves

1094
01:00:55,360 --> 01:00:58,920
Speaker 3: her sort of stuffed statue figures, and the only way

1095
01:00:58,960 --> 01:01:01,280
Speaker 3: he can really be loved by her is to make

1096
01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:05,280
Speaker 3: her kill him in punishment for his treachery and turn

1097
01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:07,800
Speaker 3: him into a statue, and then he'll be loved by her.

1098
01:01:08,080 --> 01:01:12,480
Speaker 2: So that I'm amia Redemption Arch. He enters a very

1099
01:01:12,560 --> 01:01:17,360
Speaker 2: like like even more tragic and weird section because again,

1100
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:20,720
Speaker 2: for Black Loser, perfect love is soulless. It's the diamond heart,

1101
01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:22,760
Speaker 2: and the only place she truly knows where to find

1102
01:01:22,800 --> 01:01:25,760
Speaker 2: this is in her is in her dolls. As a

1103
01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:28,160
Speaker 2: means of cultivating it as well in herself.

1104
01:01:28,520 --> 01:01:31,600
Speaker 3: Oh man, But there are some more twists that come in.

1105
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:32,000
Speaker 2: Now.

1106
01:01:32,080 --> 01:01:36,520
Speaker 3: One of the weirdest choices I thought is so Sinay

1107
01:01:36,840 --> 01:01:40,360
Speaker 3: and Emma Mia are both kept in this prison cell.

1108
01:01:40,440 --> 01:01:44,200
Speaker 3: Emmia discloses everything here. He's like, yeah, here's what I'm

1109
01:01:44,240 --> 01:01:46,440
Speaker 3: trying to do. I'm trying to get turned into a statue.

1110
01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:47,760
Speaker 2: Uh.

1111
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:52,840
Speaker 3: And then Sinay reveals I'm not actually Sinnay. I am

1112
01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:56,520
Speaker 3: a body double. I am a woman named Yoko who

1113
01:01:56,600 --> 01:01:59,880
Speaker 3: was hired by a Catchee to pretend to be sent

1114
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:04,160
Speaker 3: to keep her safe from Black Lizard. And I think

1115
01:02:04,200 --> 01:02:06,320
Speaker 3: this is not just for part of the movie. I

1116
01:02:06,320 --> 01:02:10,480
Speaker 3: think this character the entire film has actually just been

1117
01:02:10,600 --> 01:02:12,400
Speaker 3: this body double named Yoko.

1118
01:02:12,760 --> 01:02:15,160
Speaker 2: I believe. So that's the way I interpret it. Yeah.

1119
01:02:15,680 --> 01:02:19,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, Also, Yoko the body double and I'm gonna be

1120
01:02:19,760 --> 01:02:22,880
Speaker 3: a they sort of bond over the fact that they

1121
01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:26,840
Speaker 3: are both both frauds in some way, and then they

1122
01:02:26,920 --> 01:02:28,520
Speaker 3: fall in love while imprisoned.

1123
01:02:28,760 --> 01:02:31,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so then we get the redemption arc more

1124
01:02:31,280 --> 01:02:34,840
Speaker 2: less back on track for our men. I'm amia here,

1125
01:02:35,120 --> 01:02:37,840
Speaker 2: but from here we work our way into the big finish. Okay,

1126
01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:40,320
Speaker 2: that hunchback reveal that we saw coming a mile away.

1127
01:02:40,640 --> 01:02:43,920
Speaker 2: It happens. It is a catchy. It's been a catchy

1128
01:02:43,960 --> 01:02:47,400
Speaker 2: the whole time. The actual hunchback was in the futon

1129
01:02:47,480 --> 01:02:50,640
Speaker 2: and was stabbed through. The Snake Woman goes in for

1130
01:02:50,640 --> 01:02:53,880
Speaker 2: the kill. Okay, well, also Aketche's men like the fuzz

1131
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:55,560
Speaker 2: show up there on the scene. I don't know where

1132
01:02:55,560 --> 01:02:57,920
Speaker 2: they came from, but they, you know, backups have arrived.

1133
01:02:58,560 --> 01:03:00,840
Speaker 2: Snake Woman goes in for the kill against a ketchi,

1134
01:03:00,960 --> 01:03:04,600
Speaker 2: but Black Lizard stops her and kills Snake Woman dead.

1135
01:03:05,440 --> 01:03:09,040
Speaker 2: Black Lizard then retreats into her inner chambers. A Ketchee follows.

1136
01:03:09,080 --> 01:03:12,000
Speaker 2: He pursues, but when he finds her, she has already

1137
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:14,640
Speaker 2: taken a fatal poison, and so the two of them

1138
01:03:14,680 --> 01:03:18,320
Speaker 2: lounge together on her couch like lovers, sharing a tender moment,

1139
01:03:18,720 --> 01:03:21,880
Speaker 2: and she observes that she has at last found the

1140
01:03:21,880 --> 01:03:25,960
Speaker 2: perfect diamond heart in a catchy because he was able

1141
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:30,520
Speaker 2: to outsmarter and out double and triple cross her, you know,

1142
01:03:31,200 --> 01:03:35,200
Speaker 2: and then she dies in this yeah, this this tragic

1143
01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:38,720
Speaker 2: and beautiful like Shakespearean moment. And then I'm a Mia

1144
01:03:38,760 --> 01:03:42,600
Speaker 2: and Son or the fake sna run off together there

1145
01:03:42,600 --> 01:03:45,800
Speaker 2: now a couple. The case is solved, but we close

1146
01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:48,120
Speaker 2: out with a lot of stylish shots of Black Lizard

1147
01:03:48,160 --> 01:03:50,240
Speaker 2: as the credits roll, because it's you know, we got

1148
01:03:50,240 --> 01:03:52,760
Speaker 2: to leave everything on a stylish happy note.

1149
01:03:52,760 --> 01:03:56,440
Speaker 3: To a certain extent, I almost took the happy ending

1150
01:03:56,480 --> 01:04:00,920
Speaker 3: for Ama Mia and the sane body double. I almost

1151
01:04:00,920 --> 01:04:03,760
Speaker 3: took that as is, like it was supposed to be funny,

1152
01:04:03,800 --> 01:04:05,960
Speaker 3: the way they're just allowed to run off together.

1153
01:04:06,160 --> 01:04:09,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe that is a splash of comedy

1154
01:04:09,160 --> 01:04:12,320
Speaker 2: where it's like, hey, we're both fakes, but we're in

1155
01:04:12,320 --> 01:04:14,320
Speaker 2: love now. And then then they run off together, Like

1156
01:04:14,360 --> 01:04:17,800
Speaker 2: where are you guys going? You're on like a criminal mastermind,

1157
01:04:17,840 --> 01:04:21,520
Speaker 2: Like you should probably hang around and leave with the police.

1158
01:04:21,560 --> 01:04:22,680
Speaker 2: But I don't know.

1159
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:26,000
Speaker 3: Well, I thought Black Lizard was a rollicking good time.

1160
01:04:26,720 --> 01:04:29,520
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I had high hopes for this film, and it

1161
01:04:29,600 --> 01:04:32,600
Speaker 2: didn't disappoint. I was interested when I read about it

1162
01:04:32,720 --> 01:04:36,520
Speaker 2: in Fukusaku's filmography when we talked about him previously, and

1163
01:04:36,560 --> 01:04:38,959
Speaker 2: then when I went and rented it at Video Drum

1164
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:41,680
Speaker 2: here in Atlanta, John, one of the crew there, really

1165
01:04:41,720 --> 01:04:45,520
Speaker 2: talked it up, and again, the film absolutely delivered. Maybe

1166
01:04:45,560 --> 01:04:48,720
Speaker 2: I'm a romanticist but now I too believe that crime

1167
01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:51,840
Speaker 2: should wear a gorgeous gown with a train fifteen feet long,

1168
01:04:52,280 --> 01:04:54,800
Speaker 2: just like the primordial dreams of lizards.

1169
01:04:54,840 --> 01:04:56,720
Speaker 3: Well said, all.

1170
01:04:56,560 --> 01:04:59,040
Speaker 2: Right, well, we're going to go and close it out here.

1171
01:05:00,200 --> 01:05:02,320
Speaker 2: I hope you enjoyed our chat about Black Lizard, and

1172
01:05:02,480 --> 01:05:04,800
Speaker 2: more importantly, I hope you enjoy Black Lizard. I hope

1173
01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:06,120
Speaker 2: you're able to get a hold of it, and I

1174
01:05:06,160 --> 01:05:09,080
Speaker 2: hope that, hopefully in the not too distant future, we

1175
01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:12,479
Speaker 2: see an actual like Blu Ray release for this film.

1176
01:05:12,520 --> 01:05:15,360
Speaker 2: It's very deserving of it, and hey, you might be

1177
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:17,400
Speaker 2: lucky enough to see it at a film festival somewhere,

1178
01:05:17,440 --> 01:05:19,920
Speaker 2: and if you get the chance, make sure you do it.

1179
01:05:20,480 --> 01:05:23,200
Speaker 2: Reminder that Stuff to Blow Your Mind is primarily a

1180
01:05:23,240 --> 01:05:26,040
Speaker 2: science and culture podcast, with core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays,

1181
01:05:26,040 --> 01:05:28,200
Speaker 2: but we do listener mail on Mondays, short form episodes

1182
01:05:28,200 --> 01:05:30,920
Speaker 2: on Wednesdays, and on Fridays. We set aside most serious

1183
01:05:30,920 --> 01:05:33,680
Speaker 2: concerns to just talk about a weird film on Weird

1184
01:05:33,720 --> 01:05:36,000
Speaker 2: House Cinema. If you want to see a complete list

1185
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:38,040
Speaker 2: of all the movies we've covered thus far, and sometimes

1186
01:05:38,080 --> 01:05:40,600
Speaker 2: a peek ahead at what's to come, go to letterbox

1187
01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:42,480
Speaker 2: dot com. It's l E T T E r box

1188
01:05:42,560 --> 01:05:45,040
Speaker 2: d dot com. Our username is weird house, and we've

1189
01:05:45,040 --> 01:05:47,640
Speaker 2: got a wonderful list there that you can peruse and

1190
01:05:48,040 --> 01:05:50,360
Speaker 2: see what might be up your alley and what you

1191
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:52,800
Speaker 2: want to add to your own to watch list.

1192
01:05:53,320 --> 01:05:57,280
Speaker 3: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway.

1193
01:05:57,480 --> 01:05:59,040
Speaker 3: If you would like to get in touch with us

1194
01:05:59,040 --> 01:06:01,680
Speaker 3: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest

1195
01:06:01,680 --> 01:06:03,800
Speaker 3: a topic for the future, or just to say hello,

1196
01:06:04,200 --> 01:06:06,840
Speaker 3: you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow

1197
01:06:06,880 --> 01:06:14,560
Speaker 3: your Mind dot com.

1198
01:06:14,680 --> 01:06:17,640
Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

1199
01:06:17,720 --> 01:06:20,520
Speaker 1: more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1200
01:06:20,640 --> 01:06:23,400
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