WEBVTT - S1: Bonus Ep 1 - Unpacking David Parker Ray: “The Toy Box Killer” 

0:00:02.160 --> 0:00:06.320
<v Speaker 1>Hi, American Homicide listeners, this is your host's Loan Glass.

0:00:06.800 --> 0:00:10.320
<v Speaker 1>Thank you for joining us on our first bonus episode.

0:00:10.880 --> 0:00:14.440
<v Speaker 1>I am joined by the host of the Betrayal podcast,

0:00:14.800 --> 0:00:19.919
<v Speaker 1>Andrea Gunning. Hi, Andrea high Sloan, and Ben Fetterman. Ben

0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:23.919
<v Speaker 1>Fetterman is a producer on American Homicide and him and

0:00:23.920 --> 0:00:28.520
<v Speaker 1>Andrea host Barren Gone South Street Together. Hey, Ben, Hey,

0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:33.319
<v Speaker 1>This episode is obviously going to be different because it's

0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:36.760
<v Speaker 1>not our typical American homicide format where we are going

0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:40.000
<v Speaker 1>through a case. We are really going to spend some

0:00:40.080 --> 0:00:43.720
<v Speaker 1>time just on David Parker Ray, the Toy box Killer.

0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:47.720
<v Speaker 1>So our show's American Homicide. The episodes are called Toy

0:00:47.720 --> 0:00:52.440
<v Speaker 1>Box Killer, and we don't have any bodies hate same

0:00:52.479 --> 0:00:54.640
<v Speaker 1>bodies because it feels like a really removed way to

0:00:54.680 --> 0:00:59.320
<v Speaker 1>talk about these victims. But we're speaking about someone who

0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:03.640
<v Speaker 1>could be one of the most prolific serial killers in

0:01:03.680 --> 0:01:09.080
<v Speaker 1>American history, and we only know about a few of

0:01:09.120 --> 0:01:13.600
<v Speaker 1>his torture victims. That estimate from Jim Yance, the DA

0:01:13.840 --> 0:01:17.440
<v Speaker 1>prosecuted this case, is that there could be forty five

0:01:17.600 --> 0:01:22.160
<v Speaker 1>to sixty victims of David Parker Ray. So it's well

0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:27.720
<v Speaker 1>established that he was a murderer, even though it is unsolved.

0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:32.399
<v Speaker 1>I think that both of you covering unsolved cases can

0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:36.640
<v Speaker 1>speak to just the torment that can leave you just

0:01:36.680 --> 0:01:39.400
<v Speaker 1>talking about something but not being able to give an

0:01:39.440 --> 0:01:42.080
<v Speaker 1>audience any clear answers.

0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:45.600
<v Speaker 2>Sloan. One of the reasons why this story was important

0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:48.800
<v Speaker 2>to tell is because there are still families out there

0:01:49.280 --> 0:01:53.000
<v Speaker 2>that have missing loved ones. These potential forty five to

0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:57.040
<v Speaker 2>sixty individuals in New Mexico that remain on a missing

0:01:57.080 --> 0:01:57.840
<v Speaker 2>person's list.

0:01:58.520 --> 0:02:00.639
<v Speaker 1>A lot of the serial killers that we talk about,

0:02:01.560 --> 0:02:05.000
<v Speaker 1>the actions are fast, they're horrific. But to hear about

0:02:05.040 --> 0:02:08.680
<v Speaker 1>someone who got their pleasure from extended periods of time,

0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:13.720
<v Speaker 1>torturing victims who, in some cases through a mixture of

0:02:13.840 --> 0:02:18.040
<v Speaker 1>drugs and electric shock therapy, it's sick. It's sick in

0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:20.160
<v Speaker 1>a way that there's no one else who has stayed

0:02:20.200 --> 0:02:21.960
<v Speaker 1>with me the way that he has.

0:02:22.480 --> 0:02:24.560
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I remember exactly where I was the first time

0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:28.600
<v Speaker 3>I heard those tapes of him like that that welcome

0:02:28.720 --> 0:02:34.000
<v Speaker 3>greeting that he plays to his victims, and I think

0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:37.600
<v Speaker 3>I was like washing my dishes and I just stopped immediately.

0:02:38.240 --> 0:02:40.720
<v Speaker 3>I can't even really think about the emotion that came

0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:45.520
<v Speaker 3>over me other than just fear and deep empathy for

0:02:45.560 --> 0:02:48.120
<v Speaker 3>the person that was actually in that hearing that.

0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:53.000
<v Speaker 2>I mean, what is on those tapes that he played

0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:57.800
<v Speaker 2>for these women is horrific, and yet I think we

0:02:57.960 --> 0:03:00.480
<v Speaker 2>as a production felt it was important to play those

0:03:01.040 --> 0:03:07.480
<v Speaker 2>to really show how evil this man was. It was

0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:12.120
<v Speaker 2>this is what it was, and what's your opinion of it?

0:03:12.160 --> 0:03:16.080
<v Speaker 2>Because our opinion was, this is some of the most

0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:19.280
<v Speaker 2>horrific evidence we've come across in this show.

0:03:19.800 --> 0:03:22.280
<v Speaker 3>It's been a really long time since I listened to

0:03:22.360 --> 0:03:25.200
<v Speaker 3>something and it's kind of stopped me in my tracks,

0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:30.320
<v Speaker 3>and I felt the emotions and the fear, and I

0:03:30.520 --> 0:03:34.280
<v Speaker 3>was legitimate. I left feeling terrified of David Parker Ray.

0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:37.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Dre. I think one of the things that is

0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:42.680
<v Speaker 2>most terrifying about David Parker Ray is that he is

0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:47.240
<v Speaker 2>the epitome of a wolf in sheep's clothing. This is

0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:50.640
<v Speaker 2>a man that was able to go and operate throughout

0:03:50.680 --> 0:03:53.520
<v Speaker 2>the community because of his standing in it.

0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:57.160
<v Speaker 1>I think it's hard to imagine that there's a human

0:03:57.200 --> 0:04:03.280
<v Speaker 1>being like him who has existed, and to see someone

0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:06.240
<v Speaker 1>who is willing to make that audio tape and then

0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:09.720
<v Speaker 1>also make videos of what he was doing for his

0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:13.200
<v Speaker 1>own Pleasureugh, it's just such an awful one. And you

0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:16.760
<v Speaker 1>can go onto the FBI's website today and you can

0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:20.960
<v Speaker 1>see images of more things that they have found from

0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:26.080
<v Speaker 1>inside the toy box, and it's, Oh, it's just so

0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:28.919
<v Speaker 1>much that they're trying to use to identify more victims,

0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:31.839
<v Speaker 1>and a lot of it is clothing, so much jewelry.

0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:34.040
<v Speaker 1>And what I was thinking about when I first saw

0:04:34.040 --> 0:04:37.200
<v Speaker 1>all of that was how often, Drey, you can probably

0:04:37.200 --> 0:04:40.200
<v Speaker 1>speak to this as women. So much of our jewelry

0:04:41.320 --> 0:04:46.480
<v Speaker 1>has meaning behind it that's often about protection or sentimental reasons.

0:04:47.120 --> 0:04:49.520
<v Speaker 1>And I look at these bracelets and I think, how

0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:52.120
<v Speaker 1>many times did a woman look down see this bracelet

0:04:52.120 --> 0:04:55.839
<v Speaker 1>that her husband or her boyfriend or her mother had

0:04:55.839 --> 0:04:59.560
<v Speaker 1>given her with the hope that their daughter could wear

0:04:59.600 --> 0:05:03.800
<v Speaker 1>it to be safe and happy, and think of them,

0:05:04.080 --> 0:05:07.599
<v Speaker 1>And it's lying in this toy box, and he's keeping

0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:09.359
<v Speaker 1>it for his own enjoyment.

0:05:09.960 --> 0:05:12.000
<v Speaker 3>I know that a lot of people when they listen

0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:15.120
<v Speaker 3>to true crime, they really want to understand the motivations

0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:17.040
<v Speaker 3>of the people that are behind it. But a lot

0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:19.400
<v Speaker 3>of the work that we do focuses on the people

0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:24.120
<v Speaker 3>who represent those jewelry items and what they lost and

0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:26.960
<v Speaker 3>what they went through. And this isn't just like a

0:05:26.960 --> 0:05:29.880
<v Speaker 3>one off, hyperbolic situation. This is a person that was

0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:35.000
<v Speaker 3>cloaked himself in as a normal person and was preying

0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:39.279
<v Speaker 3>on individuals and people were his prey.

0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:42.000
<v Speaker 1>So it's really scary, and I.

0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:46.279
<v Speaker 3>Just I think the most impactful part of this whole

0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:49.800
<v Speaker 3>three part series is how much you feel for the

0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:54.880
<v Speaker 3>victims and understand what they went through. Because to understand

0:05:54.920 --> 0:05:57.200
<v Speaker 3>this story and to hear it is to feel that fear,

0:05:57.680 --> 0:06:01.679
<v Speaker 3>and you really are sitting with to some small degree

0:06:01.680 --> 0:06:04.400
<v Speaker 3>that you can what some of these people went through.

0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:07.760
<v Speaker 1>I really like what you said about an artifact of

0:06:07.800 --> 0:06:11.839
<v Speaker 1>their time before David Parker Ray makes me think Kelly Garrett.

0:06:11.920 --> 0:06:15.240
<v Speaker 1>Kelly Garrett was the victim who the FBI was able

0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:18.960
<v Speaker 1>to identify from posting an image of her tattoo, and

0:06:19.080 --> 0:06:24.599
<v Speaker 1>her former in laws saw that and then reached out.

0:06:25.360 --> 0:06:28.720
<v Speaker 1>She continued to live after this experience and she had

0:06:28.800 --> 0:06:34.560
<v Speaker 1>no memory of the specifics. That's how much he can

0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:38.560
<v Speaker 1>alter a person's mind, not just you know, what he

0:06:38.600 --> 0:06:40.920
<v Speaker 1>did with the drugs and the torture, but just the

0:06:41.800 --> 0:06:45.760
<v Speaker 1>trauma behind this experience. And I think about her life before,

0:06:46.160 --> 0:06:49.480
<v Speaker 1>and I think about her life after, it's loss after

0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:50.880
<v Speaker 1>loss after loss.

0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:56.480
<v Speaker 2>With Kelly, I think the hardest part is the fact

0:06:56.480 --> 0:07:02.560
<v Speaker 2>that no one, including herself believed what happened to her

0:07:02.600 --> 0:07:05.520
<v Speaker 2>that night, to the point that it led to her divorce,

0:07:05.920 --> 0:07:10.360
<v Speaker 2>to the point that she got gas lit by her family,

0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:15.040
<v Speaker 2>by herself, by the entire community by saying this isn't happening.

0:07:15.600 --> 0:07:23.120
<v Speaker 2>But fundamentally, as we've said, not only did her brain

0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:25.920
<v Speaker 2>get altered from the trauma that she experienced, but then

0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:30.040
<v Speaker 2>also how she was drugged, but then just the path

0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:33.600
<v Speaker 2>that she was on was completely changed when she was

0:07:34.080 --> 0:07:36.200
<v Speaker 2>dumped on the side of the road, and you just

0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:41.160
<v Speaker 2>have no idea why. It's really devastating, And part of me.

0:07:41.200 --> 0:07:43.320
<v Speaker 3>Is like, oh, thank god, she doesn't remember what she

0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:47.760
<v Speaker 3>went through, the trauma, the violence that she just went

0:07:47.840 --> 0:07:51.440
<v Speaker 3>through for X amount of days. But then how he

0:07:51.560 --> 0:07:54.760
<v Speaker 3>was able to weaponize that too for all of those years.

0:07:54.840 --> 0:07:59.840
<v Speaker 3>It is astonishing to me, but it's it's one of

0:07:59.840 --> 0:08:02.640
<v Speaker 3>the things are I'm like it. To have full clarity

0:08:02.840 --> 0:08:05.160
<v Speaker 3>of that amount of pain for that amount of time

0:08:05.320 --> 0:08:07.560
<v Speaker 3>also scares me too.

0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:10.120
<v Speaker 1>Right, And so much of that has to do with

0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:14.120
<v Speaker 1>the victims who he picked, women who people didn't look

0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:17.720
<v Speaker 1>for when they went missing because of their work as

0:08:17.760 --> 0:08:21.960
<v Speaker 1>sex workers. I think about Cynthia V. Hill and what

0:08:22.120 --> 0:08:24.800
<v Speaker 1>it took for her to escape, and I think about

0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:30.000
<v Speaker 1>her running with just feet of chains attached to her.

0:08:30.320 --> 0:08:33.640
<v Speaker 2>Running naked with a dog collar around your neck down

0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:37.719
<v Speaker 2>the street, just trying to find any sort of sanctuary.

0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:41.559
<v Speaker 2>That's what it took to unravel this case.

0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:45.280
<v Speaker 1>Right, and what could have continued to happen if she

0:08:45.320 --> 0:08:48.959
<v Speaker 1>had not done that. We have an audio clip from

0:08:49.160 --> 0:08:53.000
<v Speaker 1>Darren White, who worked for New Mexico's Department of Public Safety,

0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:56.560
<v Speaker 1>and he speaks about what this case, what it did

0:08:56.640 --> 0:08:56.960
<v Speaker 1>to him.

0:08:57.880 --> 0:08:59.480
<v Speaker 4>When you do this work as long as I have,

0:09:00.720 --> 0:09:03.280
<v Speaker 4>you wish there are certain aspects of it that you

0:09:03.320 --> 0:09:05.960
<v Speaker 4>could just push a button and you could hit a

0:09:06.040 --> 0:09:10.800
<v Speaker 4>race and you wouldn't have to see that again. But

0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:15.040
<v Speaker 4>unfortunately that's not the case. Those are images, horrible images

0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:17.120
<v Speaker 4>that will live with us for the rest of our lives.

0:09:18.440 --> 0:09:21.360
<v Speaker 1>There was an FBI agent, Patty Rust. It was her

0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:24.760
<v Speaker 1>job to detail everything that was found in the toy box.

0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:28.800
<v Speaker 1>She's making drawings. She's been five days just going over

0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:33.040
<v Speaker 1>at the evidence and when she got home after those

0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:37.840
<v Speaker 1>five days she took her own life. She could be

0:09:37.880 --> 0:09:41.880
<v Speaker 1>considered another victim of David Parker Rays. It's so sad,

0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:45.640
<v Speaker 1>so sad to tell the story. It really it breaks

0:09:45.679 --> 0:09:48.240
<v Speaker 1>my heart. You know, this is a this is an

0:09:48.320 --> 0:09:51.880
<v Speaker 1>FBI agent. You can imagine what this woman had seen.

0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:56.080
<v Speaker 1>You can't discount what it would do to a person

0:09:56.120 --> 0:10:00.960
<v Speaker 1>in the timing of events that after being so immersed

0:10:01.320 --> 0:10:06.319
<v Speaker 1>in his toy box, she couldn't go on. I think

0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:08.520
<v Speaker 1>it has to just change the way that you view

0:10:08.559 --> 0:10:13.480
<v Speaker 1>the world. And it's just devastating that it ended up

0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:17.480
<v Speaker 1>the way that it did with Agent Rust and I God,

0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:21.079
<v Speaker 1>I wish that, you know, she had been able to

0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:23.320
<v Speaker 1>get some help in some way.

0:10:24.320 --> 0:10:26.880
<v Speaker 3>When Ben and I were investigating there and Gone and

0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:30.319
<v Speaker 3>we didn't know exactly what happened to two people, Richard

0:10:30.400 --> 0:10:34.040
<v Speaker 3>Patron and Danielle Embo, they went missing and they haven't

0:10:34.080 --> 0:10:36.839
<v Speaker 3>been found twenty years later, and so we kind of

0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:39.360
<v Speaker 3>an idea of what happened and who was involved, but

0:10:39.400 --> 0:10:41.480
<v Speaker 3>we don't know the manner of death. And that was

0:10:41.520 --> 0:10:44.480
<v Speaker 3>something that you have to play different scenarios when you're

0:10:44.480 --> 0:10:47.480
<v Speaker 3>doing an investigation. You have to think through you know,

0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:49.760
<v Speaker 3>did this happen or did that happen? Like was this

0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:52.560
<v Speaker 3>how they were killed? You know, I'm not in the FBI.

0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:56.600
<v Speaker 3>I've just worked on a few cases, but it is

0:10:56.720 --> 0:11:00.400
<v Speaker 3>extremely difficult, especially when you're tasked to find justice. You

0:11:00.480 --> 0:11:03.360
<v Speaker 3>can't help but feel bought in, and then this other

0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:08.559
<v Speaker 3>level of reality can really be jarring, emotionally jarring. I

0:11:08.600 --> 0:11:10.160
<v Speaker 3>don't know how you felt about it, Ben, but I

0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:13.200
<v Speaker 3>would often find myself finding it too hard to think

0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:16.720
<v Speaker 3>too deep on what happened to Danielle and Richard.

0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:24.640
<v Speaker 2>I think what comes to mind for me about this

0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:28.080
<v Speaker 2>part of our conversation and comparing it to There and

0:11:28.120 --> 0:11:32.560
<v Speaker 2>Gone is FBI agents are just they're humans too, and

0:11:33.080 --> 0:11:40.719
<v Speaker 2>there's a level of feeling, seeing, experiencing something. You can

0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:43.040
<v Speaker 2>try to be as detached from the job as you

0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:45.760
<v Speaker 2>want to be, but at some point you are a

0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:49.680
<v Speaker 2>human being and can't completely be devoid of emotion. And

0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:54.240
<v Speaker 2>for this female agent that took her own life, I

0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:57.360
<v Speaker 2>obviously can't imagine, but I know as a human being

0:11:57.400 --> 0:11:59.560
<v Speaker 2>that there are things that impact us that we just

0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:03.439
<v Speaker 2>can't turn away from, and it affects us in different ways.

0:12:03.920 --> 0:12:06.680
<v Speaker 2>And that's where my mind went for There and Gone,

0:12:07.640 --> 0:12:10.199
<v Speaker 2>You and I got very close to Agent Vito Verselling.

0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:15.760
<v Speaker 2>I mean he is a tenured, you know, decades long

0:12:16.760 --> 0:12:21.160
<v Speaker 2>special agent on the force. He did not necessarily see

0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:24.320
<v Speaker 2>any crime scene photos or results of what happened to

0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:27.400
<v Speaker 2>them that could have that type of impact. But how

0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:32.480
<v Speaker 2>it did impact him, Dre is the relationships with the families,

0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:37.199
<v Speaker 2>that pursuit of wanting to get them answers, and his

0:12:37.400 --> 0:12:40.960
<v Speaker 2>inability to let go of that case and move on

0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:44.840
<v Speaker 2>that case will always continue to be with him, just

0:12:44.920 --> 0:12:49.600
<v Speaker 2>like for the agents in New Mexico around toy Box,

0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:55.080
<v Speaker 2>this case will always loom over that field office.

0:12:55.360 --> 0:12:59.959
<v Speaker 1>I mean, he invested one hundred thousand dollars in create

0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:06.120
<v Speaker 1>the toy box, this torture tamer one hundred thousand dollars.

0:13:06.200 --> 0:13:09.880
<v Speaker 2>And one thing that I find remarkable as well is

0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:15.040
<v Speaker 2>that the toy box, this physical trailer, still sits in

0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:18.720
<v Speaker 2>the parking lot of the field office, the FBI field

0:13:18.720 --> 0:13:22.840
<v Speaker 2>office that investigated this, And I think the only reason

0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:26.560
<v Speaker 2>it is still there is that hope that these forty

0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:31.280
<v Speaker 2>five to sixty bodies may eventually turn up, that there

0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:34.240
<v Speaker 2>may be evidence in the toy box to be able

0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:37.600
<v Speaker 2>to say, hey, David Parker, Ray was responsible for this

0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:40.480
<v Speaker 2>and to bring justice for those families to know what

0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:47.600
<v Speaker 2>happened to their loved one. There's one piece of this

0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:53.960
<v Speaker 2>story that is really the open ended piece to it

0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:57.160
<v Speaker 2>that bothers me outside of everything that we've talked about,

0:13:57.600 --> 0:14:02.040
<v Speaker 2>which is this map that was recovered on his property

0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:08.319
<v Speaker 2>that had you know, pins in this lake just randomly

0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:13.840
<v Speaker 2>scattered about. And we cover the fact that there was

0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:18.880
<v Speaker 2>this drought that occurs, and everyone expected because of that drought,

0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:22.800
<v Speaker 2>this is how we're going to find all these missing people.

0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:27.040
<v Speaker 2>And yet when that event occurs, that drought occurs, the

0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:31.280
<v Speaker 2>reservoir runs dry, there are no bodies. And it left

0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:35.880
<v Speaker 2>me with the question was this just another token that

0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:39.160
<v Speaker 2>he held onto of where he committed all these crimes

0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:42.960
<v Speaker 2>or was this another part of his manipulation to lead

0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:46.760
<v Speaker 2>law enforcement towards an empty search. And I just don't

0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:48.720
<v Speaker 2>know that bothers me about this case.

0:14:49.760 --> 0:14:52.080
<v Speaker 1>I want you to hear something from Darren White, who

0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:53.200
<v Speaker 1>worked on this case.

0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:56.680
<v Speaker 4>I think still at this point, your hope is, with

0:14:57.280 --> 0:15:01.520
<v Speaker 4>like any case that you are asked about that's unsolved,

0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:06.160
<v Speaker 4>your hope is that bringing it back there'll be a

0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:10.640
<v Speaker 4>tension that comes with this airing and you hope that

0:15:11.200 --> 0:15:14.000
<v Speaker 4>with what Cynthia is doing and others talking about it,

0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:19.320
<v Speaker 4>that maybe it just sparks something in somebody to do

0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:23.520
<v Speaker 4>the right thing. And so I see it as an

0:15:23.560 --> 0:15:29.600
<v Speaker 4>opportunity to raise awareness about the case. And the only

0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:33.720
<v Speaker 4>thing that's going to make me feel good about this case,

0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:40.359
<v Speaker 4>if that's even possible, is solving some of these homicides

0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:41.400
<v Speaker 4>and finding some.

0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:45.840
<v Speaker 1>Of these women. Well can you imagine being the FBI

0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:48.240
<v Speaker 1>agent who had a meeting set up with David Parker

0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:51.160
<v Speaker 1>Ray where he says he's going to talk and he

0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:55.720
<v Speaker 1>dies from a heart attack. It's just so frustrating, and

0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:59.400
<v Speaker 1>it's particularly frustrating because a heart attack is just so

0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:03.920
<v Speaker 1>not what he deserved. I mean this, it's such a

0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:08.120
<v Speaker 1>get out of jail free card really after what he did,

0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:11.480
<v Speaker 1>for there to be no accountability, for him to get

0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:17.640
<v Speaker 1>to die suddenly when his victims had been tortured endlessly,

0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:20.320
<v Speaker 1>it just feels so unjust.

0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:22.240
<v Speaker 3>You know, when I was listening to this show that

0:16:22.240 --> 0:16:25.000
<v Speaker 3>you guys put together, it was just like one thing

0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:29.760
<v Speaker 3>after another, but it just kind of goes to show

0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:34.680
<v Speaker 3>just like the wake and how expansive his destruction is

0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:38.720
<v Speaker 3>and it doesn't stop at just the investigation. I mean,

0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:41.800
<v Speaker 3>there's like a black cloud that hangs over this whole

0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:42.960
<v Speaker 3>entire story.

0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:45.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean the judge who died.

0:16:45.880 --> 0:16:48.600
<v Speaker 3>It's just when the judge had the heart attack, I

0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:49.840
<v Speaker 3>was like, you gotta be kidding.

0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:50.920
<v Speaker 1>May you gotta be kidding?

0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:54.800
<v Speaker 2>Made Oh no? Yeah. A victim passes away right before

0:16:54.920 --> 0:16:58.200
<v Speaker 2>one of the trial commences, which put a ton of

0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:03.240
<v Speaker 2>pressure on the other two women who go into the

0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:06.760
<v Speaker 2>trial thinking I'm just going to be experiencing what I've

0:17:06.800 --> 0:17:09.280
<v Speaker 2>experienced all these years, which is no one's going to

0:17:09.280 --> 0:17:09.800
<v Speaker 2>believe me.

0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:14.399
<v Speaker 1>He feels like an extension of the underworld that so

0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:16.800
<v Speaker 1>many people around him could kind of get that curse.

0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:20.600
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you look back, he got pretty damn close

0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:25.320
<v Speaker 2>to not having to face what he was responsible for.

0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:27.480
<v Speaker 1>It really is as if you made a deal with

0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:27.960
<v Speaker 1>the devil.

0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:33.200
<v Speaker 3>In what you guys put together for the Toy Box Killer,

0:17:34.280 --> 0:17:38.840
<v Speaker 3>you really get the impact of how terrifying and violent

0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:41.639
<v Speaker 3>and bad of a person David Parker Ray was.

0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:43.640
<v Speaker 1>You did a really great job.

0:17:43.680 --> 0:17:45.960
<v Speaker 3>And then so you guys are done with New Mexico

0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:49.320
<v Speaker 3>and then the next up is we're heading to my

0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:50.639
<v Speaker 3>neck of the woods in New Jersey.

0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:54.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, now, we're in New Jersey. For people listening who

0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:57.800
<v Speaker 1>don't know this, which would be anyone listening, We're based

0:17:57.800 --> 0:18:01.840
<v Speaker 1>out of Philadelphia, so the New Jersey story, we're really

0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:05.680
<v Speaker 1>familiar with these areas, you know, particularly Cherry Hill. Cherry

0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:09.240
<v Speaker 1>Hill's what forty five minutes away, you know. We want

0:18:09.240 --> 0:18:12.400
<v Speaker 1>to keep those lines open between us and the American

0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:17.359
<v Speaker 1>Homicide listeners in our email, in our Instagram because a

0:18:17.400 --> 0:18:20.800
<v Speaker 1>lot of these stories take place in communities that you

0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:25.040
<v Speaker 1>all know well and have insights, and we want to

0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:26.520
<v Speaker 1>hear those things. And we also want to hear what

0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:29.600
<v Speaker 1>you want to hear more of. So if there's questions

0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:32.679
<v Speaker 1>or anything that comes up, or cases that you believe

0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:36.920
<v Speaker 1>deserve more attention, reach out. Let us know. You can

0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:41.160
<v Speaker 1>email us at American Homicide Pod at gmail dot com.

0:18:41.720 --> 0:18:43.760
<v Speaker 1>I just love being joined by you guys.

0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:44.679
<v Speaker 2>Thank you.

0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:48.000
<v Speaker 1>I'm excited for New Jersey. Thanks dre Ben, thank you

0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:52.680
<v Speaker 1>both so much. You can contact the American Homicide Team

0:18:52.720 --> 0:18:57.320
<v Speaker 1>by emailing us at American Homicide Pod at gmail dot com.

0:18:57.760 --> 0:19:02.919
<v Speaker 1>That's American Homicide Pod at gmail dot com. American Homicide

0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:06.000
<v Speaker 1>is hosted and written by me Sloan Glass and is

0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:10.480
<v Speaker 1>a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment

0:19:10.520 --> 0:19:15.080
<v Speaker 1>Group in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive

0:19:15.119 --> 0:19:18.840
<v Speaker 1>produced by Nancy Glass and Todd Gams. The series is

0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:22.560
<v Speaker 1>also written and produced by Todd Gams, with additional writing

0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:26.480
<v Speaker 1>by Ben Fetterman and Andrea Gunning. Our associate producer is

0:19:26.600 --> 0:19:31.480
<v Speaker 1>Kristin Melcurrie. Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and Jessica Crimecheck.

0:19:32.080 --> 0:19:37.480
<v Speaker 1>Audio editing, mixing and mastering by Nico Aaruka. American Homicide's

0:19:37.520 --> 0:19:41.359
<v Speaker 1>theme song was composed by Oliver Bains of Neiser Music

0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:46.520
<v Speaker 1>Library provided by my Music. Follow American Homicide on Apple Podcasts,

0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:50.600
<v Speaker 1>and please rate and review American Homicide. Your five star

0:19:50.680 --> 0:19:53.840
<v Speaker 1>review goes a long way towards helping others find this show.

0:19:54.280 --> 0:19:59.440
<v Speaker 1>For more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

0:19:59.800 --> 0:20:01.840
<v Speaker 1>or or wherever you get your podcasts.

0:20:06.680 --> 0:20:10.600
<v Speaker 2>MHM