Speaker 1: Check out the new podcast I Am Kobe. Do you
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Speaker 1: host of the podcast Under the Influence. If you tuned
Speaker 1: into our last season, you know that the world of
Speaker 1: mom influencers on Instagram contains multitudes. Yes, there are pretty
Speaker 1: pictures and gorgeous kids, and yes there's lots of money
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Speaker 1: we treat women in the world. On season two of
Speaker 1: Under the Influence. We're advocating for the women who make
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Speaker 1: some of the darkest corners of the social media universe,
Speaker 1: and we might just have a plan to shut it
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Speaker 1: the Influence with Joe Piazza on the I Heart Radio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Paris
Speaker 1: Hilton and this is Trapped in Treatment, a weekly podcast
Speaker 1: of shocking survivor experiences and stories from an industry plagued
Speaker 1: by controversy. With my host Caroline Cole and Rebecca Mellinger,
Speaker 1: we will uncover the truth of one team treatment facility
Speaker 1: each season. First up, Provo Canyon School. This one is personal.
Speaker 1: Listen to Trapped in Treatment on the I Heart Radio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi am
Speaker 1: Laverne Karacuzi and I was the department head makeup artist
Speaker 1: on the Office. Hello everybody, and welcome back. Uh. It's
Speaker 1: a new week and that means it's time for another
Speaker 1: episode of the Office Deep Dive. As always, I am
Speaker 1: your host, Brian Baumgartner. Today we are bringing on a
Speaker 1: guest that I don't have to make up because she
Speaker 1: made me up, because she does make up, get it.
Speaker 1: She is also the one who made us look fresh, well,
Speaker 1: sometimes made us look like we had extremely bad sunburn
Speaker 1: or in my case my worst week on the show,
Speaker 1: like Michael Moore. Let me tell you, fake hair on
Speaker 1: the face not comfortable. Uh. This woman had all the
Speaker 1: skills to give you a black guy or to make
Speaker 1: you look good even if you were, say, under a
Speaker 1: waterfall at Niagara Falls. Laverne Kara Kusi Laverne was the
Speaker 1: makeup department head on the Office, which, let me tell you,
Speaker 1: this was a huge task, right. We had a huge cast,
Speaker 1: so there were a lot of people to get ready
Speaker 1: every day and not a whole lot of time. In fact,
Speaker 1: the battle plan she used then is still used across
Speaker 1: the board on so many shows. But she was so
Speaker 1: much more than that. She was a friend, a a therapist,
Speaker 1: a shoulder to lean on. Really just someone to look
Speaker 1: forward to seeing every single day, usually around five o'clock
Speaker 1: in the morning. And honestly, she probably knows more secrets
Speaker 1: about the Office cast than anyone. I mean, think about it.
Speaker 1: She got hours of one on one time with all
Speaker 1: of the actors day in and day out, just getting
Speaker 1: closer and closer all of the time. But don't get
Speaker 1: any ideas our secrets are definitely safe with her. You'll
Speaker 1: find her work on so many shows, from Judging Amy
Speaker 1: to Monk to The West Wing and Animal Kingdom. But
Speaker 1: perhaps her greatest professional achievement thus far was getting her
Speaker 1: name on a Volunteer of the Year plaque that was
Speaker 1: placed behind Creed's desk in one of our episodes. So
Speaker 1: there's a fun little Easter egg for you. But in
Speaker 1: all seriousness, Laverne I love her. She was a joy
Speaker 1: to have on our crew. I was so happy to
Speaker 1: reconnect with her for the first time in many years.
Speaker 1: So get ready to be dolled up with the one,
Speaker 1: the only Laverne Karakuzi Bubble. I love bubble, aging bubble
Speaker 1: and squeaker cookie every moment lived over from the nut. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know, it's been so long. Oh my god, I'm
Speaker 1: so happy to see you. My boy. I knows changed.
Speaker 1: I remember when I used to give you cof God,
Speaker 1: I have to put glasses on too if I have
Speaker 1: to look at it to look at No, you don't
Speaker 1: have to look at anything. I just have to look
Speaker 1: at you now. You when Okay, when did you start
Speaker 1: on the Office? Okay, So I started the Office when
Speaker 1: it was the pilot and the first six episodes, which
Speaker 1: you guys considered to be a first season, which in
Speaker 1: as we know in the normal TV world, is not
Speaker 1: the first season. So I started after that sixth episode,
Speaker 1: So you you was just the first six that you
Speaker 1: weren't there, correct, But I was there from the very beginning,
Speaker 1: Like I remember specific things, like I remember exactly where
Speaker 1: I was on the freeway when my telephone rang and
Speaker 1: You're like, I hear You're not coming back to the office.
Speaker 1: What's going on? And you started talking to me and
Speaker 1: I was like, well, I guess I'm not invited back.
Speaker 1: And then it started this whole big thing. And then
Speaker 1: when I spoke to Ken Zivornac, he was like, well,
Speaker 1: you know, Brian and Leslie David, and I think it
Speaker 1: was mostly you two were really rallying for me to
Speaker 1: go ahead and be there, which I was so grateful
Speaker 1: for it. And then I remember you and I were
Speaker 1: still on the phone even by the time I got home,
Speaker 1: and I was kind of like walking around in my
Speaker 1: front yard like thinking about it. Like, yeah, I still
Speaker 1: want to be there if I'm welcome back there, you know. Right?
Speaker 1: And then what were you doing right before you did
Speaker 1: Freaks and Geeks? Right? I did Freaks and Geeks. I
Speaker 1: shot that at Raley Hollywood, and I always thought when
Speaker 1: I did Freaks and Geeks, I always thought, God, what
Speaker 1: a great experience. Am I ever going to experience this
Speaker 1: same kind of feeling again. It's kind of like when
Speaker 1: you finish a job and you go like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: am I ever going to work again? Yeah? I feel that,
Speaker 1: But it was that kind of feeling that I thought, Okay,
Speaker 1: Freaks and Geeks, Am I ever going to experience that again?
Speaker 1: And then, as you know, we're like siblings, you know,
Speaker 1: everybody's almost kind of arguing with one another, and it's
Speaker 1: like everybody was getting in everybody else's business because they
Speaker 1: felt like they were entitled because we had been around
Speaker 1: each other for over twelve hours a day. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's the thing is that the the hair and makeup department.
Speaker 1: What people don't realize maybe is like in terms of
Speaker 1: people on the crew who are closest with the cast,
Speaker 1: there's nobody closer because you you hear and see everything, right,
Speaker 1: I think that hair and makeup are deaf aitely the
Speaker 1: closest to the cast. That's why I try to run
Speaker 1: as tight of a ship as I can, where it's
Speaker 1: like whatever information you hear from anybody, regardless of who
Speaker 1: it is that walks in and out of that door,
Speaker 1: is not to be left from that trailer or to
Speaker 1: you know, you know what I'm talking about. You know,
Speaker 1: I know, yes, we're the first person you see in
Speaker 1: the morning, and so you know, you could be having
Speaker 1: a bad day. But at the end of the day
Speaker 1: you have to leave that outside the trailer doors and
Speaker 1: kind of go in with a smiley face, and then
Speaker 1: when everybody leaves you can break down in tears or
Speaker 1: whatever you need to do. It's it's intimate work at times,
Speaker 1: you know, to be working with someone on their face
Speaker 1: or an issue that they might have or whatever else,
Speaker 1: and and it it just sort of it's not intentional,
Speaker 1: and I don't know, maybe it violates rules, but it
Speaker 1: does become almost a therapist type situation too, when you're
Speaker 1: talking about people's outside lives getting neglected at times, and
Speaker 1: you know, the work being so important and on that show,
Speaker 1: I think also the work was really important to everybody.
Speaker 1: Everybody wanted to be good, not for themselves, but it
Speaker 1: really was more a team. I feel like, I feel
Speaker 1: like everybody wanted to be there. It wasn't like they
Speaker 1: were forced to be there. It wasn't like, oh, I
Speaker 1: need a job, so therefore I'm going to go ahead
Speaker 1: and you know, just take this job. Everybody truly wanted
Speaker 1: to be there. And you know, gosh, there were plenty
Speaker 1: of times that not only did you know you have
Speaker 1: that one on one with an actor where they are
Speaker 1: spilling their guts to you, but you're also spilling your
Speaker 1: guts to them because you feel that bond with them.
Speaker 1: I mean plenty of times, you know I had been
Speaker 1: in tears for whatever reason, you know, I would be like, oh,
Speaker 1: we just sit there and talk. It's almost like the
Speaker 1: old timey hair salons, right, I mean, I understand you
Speaker 1: did make up, but right like the or like the
Speaker 1: barber shops for sure, or like you go in there
Speaker 1: and it's this like safe zone that you can talk
Speaker 1: about anything absolutely, because it's like when you see those
Speaker 1: old school movies. You know, you see like the girls
Speaker 1: that are in the nail salons and they're getting their
Speaker 1: nails done and they're talking very privately to their person
Speaker 1: that's doing their nails. Right, That's what we did. You
Speaker 1: guys came in early in the morning, and because we
Speaker 1: had everybody working and up at one time, we pretty
Speaker 1: much had everybody in the trailer. And even when we didn't,
Speaker 1: you guys would still go back to your trailer and
Speaker 1: do something, and you knew your friends were going to
Speaker 1: come in an hour later. So we'd always have like
Speaker 1: this big commotion of things kind of going on in
Speaker 1: the trailer and always have the A. D s come
Speaker 1: in there and say, okay, how much longer, how much longer? Well,
Speaker 1: we have to finish this story, and then we listen
Speaker 1: to Rain and Oscar go back and forth at one another. Yeah.
Speaker 1: That's what people don't realize is you know, on our
Speaker 1: show by the end, we had four makeup artists and
Speaker 1: four hair people. Right. Well, we originally started out the
Speaker 1: show where they thought that we could go ahead and
Speaker 1: get everybody ready at one time, would just I think
Speaker 1: it started out two and two, and then it was like,
Speaker 1: oh well, we'll just go ahead and have three and three,
Speaker 1: and then it was like four and four, and then
Speaker 1: remember we had that chart. It was our battle plan
Speaker 1: where it was color coded as to what actor was
Speaker 1: going to get their makeup done and who was going
Speaker 1: to get their hair done, and then the swapping of
Speaker 1: the chairs and they were done in fifteen minute increments,
Speaker 1: which makes me laugh now because since after The Office,
Speaker 1: I've gone on to other shows where they have that
Speaker 1: same chart and they'll go, oh, we have a battle plan,
Speaker 1: and I go, oh, well, that's interesting because I think
Speaker 1: you took that from our show way back when it's
Speaker 1: kind of like when you see these shows that are doing,
Speaker 1: you know, talking heads, I'm like, oh, really the talking
Speaker 1: Heads started originally with us. I almost kind of get
Speaker 1: a little bit territorial, right, Well, we had what I
Speaker 1: mean that times like sixteen to twenty actors that needed
Speaker 1: to be ready at the same time. So there are
Speaker 1: four you know, there's four hair and four makeup and
Speaker 1: then people have to flip flop, but that's still only
Speaker 1: eight people. So you guys would create this grid that
Speaker 1: people had to start coming in at you know, five o'clock,
Speaker 1: four thirty in the morning just to get everybody ready
Speaker 1: on time, right exactly, And there was no type of
Speaker 1: buffer scene like a normal TV so to speak, not
Speaker 1: that our show wasn't normal TV. But you never had
Speaker 1: like those buffer scenes where you could go like, oh,
Speaker 1: let's go ahead and get half the people ready, and
Speaker 1: then we have a buffer scene to then go ahead
Speaker 1: and get more people ready. It was like our buffer
Speaker 1: scene was a talking head and that literally, as you know,
Speaker 1: it was only one person. So that only gave us
Speaker 1: a certain amount of time. So I thank the office
Speaker 1: for that very reason because it's forced me as an
Speaker 1: artist to go ahead and really gain my speed. Because
Speaker 1: when they'll be like, oh, we have eight people we
Speaker 1: need to get ready, I was like, oh, that's a
Speaker 1: walk in the park. I can go ahead and do that.
Speaker 1: We used to get sixteen and twenty people ready at
Speaker 1: one time. How did you get into makeup? Um? Well,
Speaker 1: I always painted as a kid. You know. I used
Speaker 1: to go with my face just painted, so I knew
Speaker 1: like the idea of light color theory and how like
Speaker 1: different materials kind of worked with each other. And I
Speaker 1: would walk from my house in Toluca Lake to this
Speaker 1: woman's house and she used to paint in her garage,
Speaker 1: and uh so that kind of started. And I always
Speaker 1: wanted to be in the arts in one capacity or another.
Speaker 1: And then after I graduated high school, I went to
Speaker 1: community college and then I moved to London, and then
Speaker 1: I got a degree in fashion design, and then I
Speaker 1: still kind of dabbled a little bit in the arts
Speaker 1: and you know, doing makeup and stuff like that. I
Speaker 1: started originally doing commercials and I worked with one director
Speaker 1: for many, many years um in commercials, and then my
Speaker 1: first real TV job was Freaks and Geeks. And Freaks
Speaker 1: and Geeks was where I met Paul Fie and Jake
Speaker 1: Kasden and Seth Rogan and on and on and on.
Speaker 1: So how did you get that job? I got that
Speaker 1: job from I was doing a commercial and in between
Speaker 1: going ahead and doing commercials, I had been day playing
Speaker 1: on movies and TV stuff, and a friend of mine
Speaker 1: called me and said, hey, by the way, I need
Speaker 1: somebody to work with me on this new TV show
Speaker 1: called Freaks and Geeks. It's really simple makeup. These kids
Speaker 1: are young. And I thought, okay, and so I had
Speaker 1: to be really straightforward and said, well, I just want
Speaker 1: to let you know that I'm pregnant with my first daughter.
Speaker 1: I would love to go ahead and do the show.
Speaker 1: So basically, I that's how I got the job, and
Speaker 1: I did Freaks and Geeks, and um got to know
Speaker 1: everybody there. Then I had the baby in January, and
Speaker 1: then you know, years later I started running into like
Speaker 1: Linda Cardellini and Jason Siegel and people like that, and
Speaker 1: they would always ask how Savannah doing, How Savannah doing,
Speaker 1: and just because I was, you know, pregnant with her
Speaker 1: and I had worked the whole show being pregnant, So
Speaker 1: that was like a special moment for me. Whereas it
Speaker 1: was like even on the office when I would see
Speaker 1: like Angela being pregnant, it reminded me of when I
Speaker 1: went back to Freaking Geeks and when I was pregnant
Speaker 1: right right, and the hair and makeup world, I mean,
Speaker 1: it really is about the relationships, right Like you met
Speaker 1: this makeup artist who brought you onto Freaking Geeks, and
Speaker 1: then you you meet people and that's how it happens, right,
Speaker 1: it pretty much does. I mean, I feel, if you
Speaker 1: have a good attitude, it's really about relationships. Because as
Speaker 1: we know, there's a lot of you know, jobs that
Speaker 1: you often say to yourself, I wonder how they got
Speaker 1: that job, you know what I mean? And that's no
Speaker 1: disrespect to anybody, it's just the way that it is.
Speaker 1: You know, if you are a people person and you
Speaker 1: can do your job sufficiently, you know, and you have
Speaker 1: a good attitude, then obviously you're going to get brought
Speaker 1: onto the next one. Right. Yeah, do you remember anything
Speaker 1: about those early years? We had did six episodes and
Speaker 1: then we did six more and we were sent home.
Speaker 1: And I mean it occurs to me that the tremendous
Speaker 1: amount of trust and courage that you showed kind of
Speaker 1: stick with it over periods where you know, we were
Speaker 1: working oddly and we didn't know if we were going
Speaker 1: to keep going, but there was a trust in you
Speaker 1: to kind of stick with it through that time. Well.
Speaker 1: I just kind of feel as freelancers, whether you're above
Speaker 1: the line or below the line, you're a gypsy. You
Speaker 1: take your stuff, you show up at work. You know,
Speaker 1: you don't know. I've been on plenty of shows prior
Speaker 1: to the Office where they're like, okay, we shoot up
Speaker 1: till Christmas, you know, and then sometimes they would come
Speaker 1: to and be like, oh, sorry, it was picked up
Speaker 1: for the back nine, but now we're canceled, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. But there was I think it goes
Speaker 1: back to the whole trust thing. I just always felt
Speaker 1: like you know, especially with Greg being our leader, I
Speaker 1: always felt that he was always so genuine and he
Speaker 1: would have said if there was anything that he could
Speaker 1: foresee that was coming up, that he would have said
Speaker 1: something to us. But I loved the whole cast, so
Speaker 1: there was no reason for me not to be excited
Speaker 1: about coming back. It didn't matter which way you went,
Speaker 1: because it was always an uncertainty. You know. I don't
Speaker 1: know if that's just something that we as individuals in
Speaker 1: this business thrive on, like oh gosh, you know that
Speaker 1: almost like an angst all the time, right right right,
Speaker 1: right right, you know. And I truly believe that if
Speaker 1: you're good at what you do, you will always be
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Speaker 1: What differences are there between being a makeup artist in
Speaker 1: fashion or whatever? Like what makes TV and film different
Speaker 1: and or why do you like to do that or
Speaker 1: why have you chosen to do that? I think that
Speaker 1: compared to say fashion or commercials, you work at a
Speaker 1: completely different pace, whereas in television and film, as you know,
Speaker 1: we don't shoot, you know, day one, night one, day two,
Speaker 1: so you have to remember continuity basis. So when it
Speaker 1: comes to, say a commercial, it's like I'm getting somebody
Speaker 1: ready and I'm doing their makeup for a Taco Bell commercial,
Speaker 1: let's say. But when you're doing television or film, there's
Speaker 1: sometimes script wise where you may get them ready for
Speaker 1: day one and then say day two there's something specifically scripted,
Speaker 1: like a person gets hit in the face with the
Speaker 1: ball and they need to have a black eye, or
Speaker 1: you know, they have a split lip or whatever it
Speaker 1: happens to be. So you have to be really diligent
Speaker 1: and stay on top of it. And you're also you
Speaker 1: have a script that you're going by in television and
Speaker 1: film opposed to fashion or commercials. But also in the
Speaker 1: fashion world sometimes it's super high fashion, so it's thinking
Speaker 1: outside the box opposed to going ahead and doing maybe
Speaker 1: a straight makeup. It just all depends. And then there's
Speaker 1: also differences between going ahead and doing a regular beauty
Speaker 1: makeup opposed to doing special effects makeup, or you know,
Speaker 1: so times a tattoo is required, or I mean, you
Speaker 1: know how it was when we did our certain episodes
Speaker 1: of the Office where it would be like, oh, it's Halloween,
Speaker 1: so and so it is gonna look like blah blah
Speaker 1: blah blah. You're gonna make me miserable by by putting
Speaker 1: by putting hair all over my face as Michael Moore.
Speaker 1: But oh my gosh, because I had a I had
Speaker 1: to listen to you wine about the fact that I
Speaker 1: had to have this stuff on my face one more time. However, okay,
Speaker 1: now listen, when your manager saw you, what was the
Speaker 1: response that your manager had to say, Oh my god,
Speaker 1: I thought that was Michael Moore. So I rest my case. Well,
Speaker 1: here's the thing. People think you guys are nice and
Speaker 1: you all you do is torture us. That's really, That's
Speaker 1: what it is. No. I it's so crazy because on
Speaker 1: the office, so much of it was straight makeup, you know,
Speaker 1: and downplayed, and you know, them not wanting to come
Speaker 1: in or touch up or do anything because they wanted
Speaker 1: this very sort of realistic look. But along with that,
Speaker 1: there was a lot of crazy stuff that you guys
Speaker 1: had to do in terms of that, or in terms
Speaker 1: of injuries or when Kate got burned because she fell
Speaker 1: asleep from the yeah burned or yeah, I mean that
Speaker 1: must make it fun, right, Oh? Absolutely. Every time I
Speaker 1: would look at the script, I'd get super excited and
Speaker 1: be like, oh, what's in the script this week? And
Speaker 1: I always knew that when Halloween rolled around that there
Speaker 1: was always going to be something fun to actually do.
Speaker 1: But also to there's like this misconception of when people
Speaker 1: say to you, we want no makeup, okay, well you
Speaker 1: need to be a little bit more specific when you
Speaker 1: say no makeup. There's a difference between a no makeup
Speaker 1: look where you're actually putting on makeup but making them
Speaker 1: look like they don't have makeup. Opposed to not putting
Speaker 1: anything on their face. Right, What was this specific direction
Speaker 1: that you were given in terms of how they characters
Speaker 1: should look. They're supposed to look natural their everyday people
Speaker 1: that work in an office. Also to keeping in mind Scranton.
Speaker 1: Because of Scranton, there's a very different everyday look in
Speaker 1: Scranton as there would be to an everyday look in
Speaker 1: l A or New York or Dallas or wherever it
Speaker 1: happened to be. So I think, you know, we never
Speaker 1: got any notes saying oh it's too much. You know,
Speaker 1: when we go into do a you know myself as
Speaker 1: an artist, somebody sits in your chair and you kind
Speaker 1: of look at them and you're given the direction of natural.
Speaker 1: Then at that point say, okay, do I just conceal
Speaker 1: under their eyes? Are we going to keep the facial hair,
Speaker 1: We're going to shave the facial hair, A We're gonna
Speaker 1: whatever it happens to be. Are there eyebrows to light
Speaker 1: that we might have to darken a mint a bit.
Speaker 1: I think that Greg was so great at going ahead
Speaker 1: and giving saying a natural look, but then not micromanaging,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. He let us go ahead
Speaker 1: and have a free range within parameters of what it
Speaker 1: was that we as individuals felt. And you know, Greg,
Speaker 1: he was always such a great leader. I mean, how
Speaker 1: do you not love him? And you know, we had
Speaker 1: a little bit of leeway and we just kind he
Speaker 1: kind of left it up to us. Um you know,
Speaker 1: because obviously, when you're in a trailer, going ahead and
Speaker 1: getting people ready is very different to when you then
Speaker 1: take them outside onto the set, of which I'm a
Speaker 1: huge advocate for. If you're in a trailer, you try
Speaker 1: to go ahead and have your lighting set up to
Speaker 1: how your lighting is on the inside of a set.
Speaker 1: Did you do that? Yeah, we would. We would call
Speaker 1: in the electric department when we would start the new
Speaker 1: season and say, we need to pull these lights because
Speaker 1: they don't hold the trailer from season to season. So
Speaker 1: we would have the electrical department come in take those
Speaker 1: lights out because they'd always put in those lovely fluorescence
Speaker 1: and put in what was color accurate to what it
Speaker 1: was that we were actually shooting inside the set. And
Speaker 1: then there were some times that because as you know,
Speaker 1: certain people were always sitting in front of a computer,
Speaker 1: sometimes having certain colors on a computer screen always plays
Speaker 1: a little bit with the coloring on people, skin tones,
Speaker 1: underneath their eyes, any little things that you maybe want
Speaker 1: to color correct. So we would have a collaboration or
Speaker 1: I did with Steve hutch to go ahead and make
Speaker 1: sure you turn the screen to white so that you
Speaker 1: almost are blowing out the color in somebody's face, and
Speaker 1: then it will be my job as an artist to
Speaker 1: go in and deposit the color back into the face
Speaker 1: because the blue would be really throwing you off. Right,
Speaker 1: that's so interesting. I had no idea that you guys
Speaker 1: were doing that with the electric department. That's that's super cool.
Speaker 1: I mean, that makes that makes a lot of sense. Well,
Speaker 1: I try to go ahead, and I figured that out
Speaker 1: kind of early on, and I do that now moving
Speaker 1: forward on different shows. I try to be, you know,
Speaker 1: go to the electrical to and be like, oh, by
Speaker 1: the way, can you just let me know what it is,
Speaker 1: what type of lighting you're using on set, so that
Speaker 1: you're not having to go ahead and make corrections. It's like,
Speaker 1: why go ahead and make a step forward and then
Speaker 1: have to go a step back. Right, And obviously, if
Speaker 1: you know we're shooting outside or you know, in a
Speaker 1: different location, like things are going to change. But when
Speaker 1: you have a show like ours that takes place largely
Speaker 1: in this one space, obviously they know the gist of
Speaker 1: how it's lit. I think that there were times that,
Speaker 1: you know, I would we would be so early in
Speaker 1: the morning and they would take us on our little
Speaker 1: road trips down you know that one street that we
Speaker 1: would always drive down um or we would be shooting
Speaker 1: on the back side of the stages to implement wherever
Speaker 1: it was that we were supposed to be shooting, and
Speaker 1: you'd put a foundation on somebody's face and then you'd
Speaker 1: get outside and it, you know, takes a minute for
Speaker 1: the skin to warm up and for everything to kind
Speaker 1: of settle. And then there were times that I would
Speaker 1: get people outside and be like, oh, no, what have
Speaker 1: I done? I think I need to correct us a
Speaker 1: little bit because this doesn't look quite right. How was
Speaker 1: the office different than any show you had been on
Speaker 1: before that? Do you remember anything different? I just felt
Speaker 1: there was always that great feeling of of being with
Speaker 1: your family. You know, you're away from your family all
Speaker 1: the time. We would walk into the trailer, there was
Speaker 1: always that feeling of like, oh, there's my there's my
Speaker 1: other brother, there's my other sister, and you know how
Speaker 1: it was like over nine years, of course there's going
Speaker 1: to be those things that we all like, we all
Speaker 1: start getting in each other's business, and that's just what happens.
Speaker 1: I mean, over nine nine years, that's obviously what happens.
Speaker 1: But there was just I think across the board, you know,
Speaker 1: you always felt that level of you could go and
Speaker 1: talk to on a one on one with an actor
Speaker 1: and you knew that whatever you were talking about was
Speaker 1: always kept secret and it was just between the two
Speaker 1: view you know, walking into editing, we could always talk
Speaker 1: to them and they were always great about showing us
Speaker 1: stuff that was being edited together of what we had
Speaker 1: shot before. And the doors in the writer's office were
Speaker 1: always open. We could always walk upstairs and walk in
Speaker 1: on them and they would, you know, greet you, Oh hey, Laver,
Speaker 1: and how you doing, you know, blah blah blah blah,
Speaker 1: and then I would be like, I'm so sorry, I'm
Speaker 1: interrupting in the middle of writing, but I had this question.
Speaker 1: So I always felt like there was an open door
Speaker 1: policy for everybody across the board. Is that unique, very unique?
Speaker 1: And I think I think it's because of the actors
Speaker 1: that we had the crew that we had because we
Speaker 1: were only really located in two buildings that we had
Speaker 1: to like just cross a parking lot to go into
Speaker 1: editing or the writers or whatever. And when you work
Speaker 1: in these bigger studios as you know, you know, Universal,
Speaker 1: Warren Brothers, whatever, everything's kind of spread out all over
Speaker 1: the place, and I feel like everybody was always open
Speaker 1: to listen to you. They of her were like, oh god,
Speaker 1: I don't have the time right now, you know. I
Speaker 1: always felt like there was an open door policy. Yeah. Eventually,
Speaker 1: once we sort of broke the CEO with the big
Speaker 1: super Bowl episode, then we started getting some big guest stars.
Speaker 1: Do you have any specific recollections about any of those guys? Well,
Speaker 1: we had Indra s Elva, we had Cathy Bates, We
Speaker 1: had Will Ferrell, Will Ferrell, James Spader, Yeah, James Spader.
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, James Spader so funny, so many times, like
Speaker 1: talking about times of when he grew up and you know,
Speaker 1: just funny intimate points in time. Cathy Bates, I couldn't
Speaker 1: help it to be in AWE because you know, she's
Speaker 1: one of my favorite actresses, and so I was like,
Speaker 1: do I say something? Do I not say something? Is
Speaker 1: it going to be professional? Is it not going to
Speaker 1: be professional? And I couldn't help it to be like,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I just have to save us and
Speaker 1: I'm sorry and I don't mean it to come out
Speaker 1: to be unprofessional, but I have to tell you how
Speaker 1: much I love you, and uh, you know, she just
Speaker 1: had a big smile on her face. And I feel
Speaker 1: like all those actors that we had that came in,
Speaker 1: whether they came in, you know, for one time, or
Speaker 1: came in for five episodes or you know, however many episodes,
Speaker 1: we always had such a great group of guest stars.
Speaker 1: And Will I had known from before, you know, doing
Speaker 1: a movie called Stranger Than Fiction with him, and so
Speaker 1: when he came onto the office I was like, oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, here he is again. So it's funny how
Speaker 1: it's like you'll you'll work with an actor and then
Speaker 1: you may not see him for a really long time
Speaker 1: for whatever reasons, and then all of a sudden, you
Speaker 1: see him again. You're like, hey, what's going on? Okay?
Speaker 1: I know, well, because the relationship is real and it's
Speaker 1: it's intimate, and I mean, obviously your relationships with people
Speaker 1: that you worked with for longer recognize you and then
Speaker 1: there's others where you're thinking to yourself, do they really
Speaker 1: recognize me? Or they just like trying to put it together,
Speaker 1: like where did I work with them on? Oh? For sure?
Speaker 1: And are sure by the way I've done that? Like
Speaker 1: people who did you do that? Like when you saw
Speaker 1: me today? Ship? No, no, but I it doesn't matter
Speaker 1: what job because you don't know or care. But I
Speaker 1: there was some job recently. No, not really because I
Speaker 1: won't remember any of the details now because I didn't
Speaker 1: know who she was. But I went somewhere and it
Speaker 1: wasn't Debbie or Kid or Sherry Perry or Kenneth Paul
Speaker 1: or anybody else, but there was someone she was like,
Speaker 1: Oh I worked on the show. Um, oh wow, I'm
Speaker 1: so what show did you work on? And if she
Speaker 1: had said the office, I would have been like, oh,
Speaker 1: of course she was like the office, and I was, oh, no,
Speaker 1: I mean my light was on, but there was nobody
Speaker 1: home up there. I didn't know. I was like, I don't.
Speaker 1: But you know people who came on, you know, Day
Speaker 1: played for two or three episodes one season, and then
Speaker 1: they went on to something else they might remember. Well.
Speaker 1: The funny thing is is that sometimes even as a
Speaker 1: makeup artist. All run into makeup artists and they go,
Speaker 1: don't you remember I was on your show? And I'm thinking, no,
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Speaker 1: on Reparations on the I Heart radio app, Apple Podcasts
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcast. Talked to some people
Speaker 1: about probably one of the toughest times, sort of most
Speaker 1: emotional times for us on the show, um, which was
Speaker 1: the writer's strike and us losing a hundred days in there,
Speaker 1: and we came back and made up some afterward. But
Speaker 1: do you remember anything about the difficulty of that time.
Speaker 1: And I specifically remember where we were shooting when we
Speaker 1: were told that the writers were going to go on strike. Um,
Speaker 1: we were on location. We were shooting it, I believe
Speaker 1: Jam's apartment, and if I remember correctly, the trailers were
Speaker 1: parked along the street. It was b J and Mindy's
Speaker 1: trailers right there. Obviously they were the writers or some
Speaker 1: of the writers, and everybody was a little bit nervous
Speaker 1: about going ahead a writer's strike, but then we were told,
Speaker 1: we really apologize that we have to do this, but
Speaker 1: this is what we have to do. You know. It
Speaker 1: was like, we have to do this because we have
Speaker 1: to state, we have to make a point, but we
Speaker 1: also want you to know that you're appreciated. And you know,
Speaker 1: getting a check out of Greg daniels personal checking account
Speaker 1: to each crew member. What what was that? Yeah? We
Speaker 1: were am I allowed to talk about Okay, Greg Daniels
Speaker 1: went into his personal checking account and wrote the crew
Speaker 1: each an individual check because we were going to be
Speaker 1: out of work. I mean, you knew that it was
Speaker 1: his personal checking account because when you received the check,
Speaker 1: it had the address up in the corner. And then
Speaker 1: we got another check after that from Remember how you
Speaker 1: guys always used to as cast members, always thought of
Speaker 1: a Christmas gift for the crew, and you guys also
Speaker 1: gave us money on top of that. So there was
Speaker 1: just that loyalty. Sorry, there's just that loyalty that came
Speaker 1: along with why wouldn't you want to go ahead and
Speaker 1: keep working for these people? You know, regardless of how
Speaker 1: long the strike is, you're taking care of us now.
Speaker 1: So why wouldn't we go ahead and do it later on?
Speaker 1: So it just strikes it like my tears are more
Speaker 1: tears of joy because I felt so appreciated at that point.
Speaker 1: And there were people that I spoke to even after
Speaker 1: that that said to me, you know when we talked
Speaker 1: about the writers strike and they were like, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: how was it on the office? And I would tell
Speaker 1: them and people were just like their jaws dropped to
Speaker 1: be like, that's pretty amazing. You know that you had
Speaker 1: your chief, so to speak, Greg Daniels, and your cast
Speaker 1: all come together and and you knew that it was genuine.
Speaker 1: And even to this day, I have the utmost respect
Speaker 1: for him, you know, as we all do. How do
Speaker 1: you not love Greg Daniels. Yeah, well, one of the
Speaker 1: other things, it was just a time when there were
Speaker 1: issues sort of happening across the board, right with the
Speaker 1: actors and with the writers and the directors, and the
Speaker 1: writer's contract came up first, and you know, the fight
Speaker 1: that they were fighting was kind of like across the board.
Speaker 1: But they you know, we showed up at work. We
Speaker 1: because I called and they said, no, you you have
Speaker 1: to go to work. You're not on strike. You don't
Speaker 1: get to show. If you don't show up, they can
Speaker 1: fire you or whatever else. And so we all showed
Speaker 1: up to work and I remember being there and then
Speaker 1: Steve I just didn't show up and I found out
Speaker 1: he got calls from the network and from lawyers that said,
Speaker 1: you have to go to work. There's an episode that's
Speaker 1: been written and you have to shoot it. And he
Speaker 1: said no, no, And Greg, I think, told me, you know,
Speaker 1: he was getting calls from the network and Steve, and
Speaker 1: he knew that there was a lot of pressure on Steve.
Speaker 1: And he called Steve and said, you know, how are
Speaker 1: you doing. Steve said, I'm fine, I'm here playing with
Speaker 1: the kids. He was like, are you And he was like, yep,
Speaker 1: that's Steve for How is it working with him so
Speaker 1: intimately for for so many years? Oh my god. Steve's
Speaker 1: a gem, as we know, always super professional. He'd always
Speaker 1: come in, sit down and I was always amazed at
Speaker 1: the amount of dialogue that he had and how like
Speaker 1: just a photographic memory, yeah, and how much he could
Speaker 1: remember Berth but he would just like do it so effortlessly,
Speaker 1: always and always, you know. I just remember certain times too.
Speaker 1: I remember one time in particular which this alwaysted out
Speaker 1: and you'll remember it too. I can't remember what episode
Speaker 1: it was, but we were shooting. All the actors were
Speaker 1: in big coats and we had a limousine that we
Speaker 1: had shot outside them on the other stages, and I
Speaker 1: remember there were a couple of actors that were still
Speaker 1: at Craft Service, and I remember Steve specifically went over
Speaker 1: to Craft Service and said to them, you realize that
Speaker 1: you're being disrespectful because you have a bunch of actors
Speaker 1: that are standing outside in the boiling hot sun in
Speaker 1: coats waiting for you while you're at Craft Service. I
Speaker 1: love him. He's professional and just always on it and
Speaker 1: just a real people person. And I think there is
Speaker 1: something to be said about the fact that, um, you know,
Speaker 1: when you have actors that start out and their careers
Speaker 1: just take off as when they're young, opposed to as
Speaker 1: they get older. I think, as you know, with Steve,
Speaker 1: his career didn't start until he was a little bit older,
Speaker 1: you know, not a teenager, and so he got it.
Speaker 1: And he always was such a gentleman. We go on location,
Speaker 1: we'd be getting out of a van. He would come
Speaker 1: around and always put his hand out to help people
Speaker 1: out of the van, had no problem carrying somebody's chair
Speaker 1: or their setbag. Just I don't know, you know how
Speaker 1: we all feel about Steve? Yeah, no, I know. Do
Speaker 1: you remember hearing that he was leaving? Yes, I remember,
Speaker 1: And we would have many conversations with him in the
Speaker 1: chair and he would like love to push my buttons,
Speaker 1: and you go, only six more episodes, only five more episodes,
Speaker 1: and I go, shut up, don't talk about it. And
Speaker 1: then when he actually did end up going ahead and leaving,
Speaker 1: and how Nancy was there and how he had a
Speaker 1: went down the list of each department and he had
Speaker 1: a that's what she said moment, and I thought it
Speaker 1: was brilliant. How we retired number one on the call sheet.
Speaker 1: When Steve left um and the dynamics of the show changed.
Speaker 1: I think after Steve left, people started getting maybe a
Speaker 1: little bit ancy, you know, are we going to do
Speaker 1: an eighth season? Are we going to do a ninth season.
Speaker 1: I kind of felt like Steve was the glue that
Speaker 1: kind of kept everything together. And like you know, we
Speaker 1: always say the speed of the team is a speed
Speaker 1: of the leader, and I think in that respect, Steve
Speaker 1: was definitely almost like everybody wanted to be on really
Speaker 1: good behavior because Steve Grill was there right right, Even
Speaker 1: though it wasn't because he wasn't a big famous star before.
Speaker 1: It wasn't it wasn't it was always Steve. I mean,
Speaker 1: I know, you just made that joke, but like it was,
Speaker 1: Steve was there, and just the the power of his
Speaker 1: generosity of spirit and work ethic and preparedness, it was
Speaker 1: just like, oh, yeah, we can't screw this up now, right,
Speaker 1: like if he yeah, exactly. It wasn't like we went, oh,
Speaker 1: it's Steve Carrell, so we have to be on great behavior.
Speaker 1: It was like, oh, Steve, because of the way he was,
Speaker 1: how professional he was, how prepared he was, that everybody
Speaker 1: it was like, you know, having a teacher and all
Speaker 1: of your kids, and everybody wants to make sure that
Speaker 1: you're all on good behavior because the teachers coming in
Speaker 1: the room. So I think that's kind of what it was.
Speaker 1: It had nothing to do with whether, you know, Steve
Speaker 1: was a big superstar not a big superstar. Was more
Speaker 1: about the fact that everybody, because of how he was,
Speaker 1: we all wanted to not disappoint. So part of what
Speaker 1: we're talking about here is that, And I don't know
Speaker 1: if you experience it through your kids or anything else.
Speaker 1: But you know, here we are, and we haven't filmed
Speaker 1: the show in six years. Has it already been six years?
Speaker 1: Oh my god? And right now it's the biggest show
Speaker 1: on television. I can't even tell you how many times
Speaker 1: people just go, oh, my gosh, my kids have watched
Speaker 1: all the episodes of the Office. You worked on the Office,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it must have been so much fun. So,
Speaker 1: you know, and they'll like almost kind of drill you,
Speaker 1: which in a suite enduring way, not in like a
Speaker 1: bad way. But I'm like, when I start thinking about it,
Speaker 1: I'm like, how long has it been? I'm like, six years,
Speaker 1: Like it feels like just yesterday. And it's maybe just
Speaker 1: because I've kept I've tried to make a conscience suffort
Speaker 1: of staying in touch with with certain people. You know.
Speaker 1: I've kept in touch with Greg Daniels over the years.
Speaker 1: I've kept in touch with Justin Spitzer over the years.
Speaker 1: I did the pilot in the first season of Superstore
Speaker 1: with him. You know. I kept in touch with Craig Robinson,
Speaker 1: silly Craig, love him though, you know, we did a
Speaker 1: movie he was guest starring, and then he said he
Speaker 1: was going to be doing this, um his own show.
Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, how's that going? Because I had
Speaker 1: heard about it, like a little bit of the rumbling
Speaker 1: right as we were starting to finish The Office. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's I said, Oh my gosh, that would be so
Speaker 1: fun to go ahead and work on that. And then
Speaker 1: just out of blue, no phone call, just an email
Speaker 1: from a producer saying, oh, can I send you the
Speaker 1: script for Craig Robinson's new show. I'm thinking that was
Speaker 1: just so random, Like he didn't even say, hey, do
Speaker 1: you want to do it? We just got in touch
Speaker 1: with them, and then all of a sudden the script
Speaker 1: ended up in my email. What what is working on
Speaker 1: the Office mean to you? I wish that we could
Speaker 1: do it all over again. It holds a very very special, um,
Speaker 1: a very special part in my heart that you know.
Speaker 1: I don't think that, but I said that also when
Speaker 1: Freaks and Geeks ended that I don't know if we'll
Speaker 1: ever experience that again. I hope. I do you know
Speaker 1: certain actors that you know I've kept in touch with
Speaker 1: along the way that have been really supportive to me,
Speaker 1: And you were super supportive to me when you know
Speaker 1: you wanted me to go ahead and stay on. So
Speaker 1: I feel that, you know, I always like to stay
Speaker 1: in touch with you, and then I feel like we'll
Speaker 1: always be friends. But it was just a very unique
Speaker 1: point in time where I when I first got called
Speaker 1: to do this tiny little show called The Office, I
Speaker 1: never thought it would be the phenomenon that it ended
Speaker 1: up going ahead and being. And now as you're six
Speaker 1: years later to then realize that six years have already
Speaker 1: gone by, because like I said, it really is like
Speaker 1: it just happened yesterday, you know. Yeah, I mean it
Speaker 1: holds a very very special place in my heart. I
Speaker 1: feel a lot of loyalty, and you know, would it
Speaker 1: be great to go ahead and you know, get a
Speaker 1: group of us together to to do something different. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: would I just be a static Absolutely? Would I stick
Speaker 1: through it if we had another writer strike that they're anticipating. Absolutely. Yeah,
Speaker 1: It's just one of those great shows that you know,
Speaker 1: now it's just become such a cult following, like you know,
Speaker 1: looking over there and seeing cheers like one of those
Speaker 1: it definitely is. Thank you so much for coming in.
Speaker 1: I feel like it was just yesterday seeing your face,
Speaker 1: and I love you, and I will never ever ever
Speaker 1: take for granted the relationship and the closest that I
Speaker 1: feel to you, and all the time that we spent together.
Speaker 1: I know I feel the same way. I remember that
Speaker 1: one time that you were panicking because you couldn't get
Speaker 1: your daughter from school, and you said to me, I
Speaker 1: need to get her from school, and I said, well,
Speaker 1: I'll just have somebody watch the set and I'll just
Speaker 1: drive there. And I remember pulling up in my car
Speaker 1: with all the school busses and telling her, come on,
Speaker 1: come along. I got to take you back to work
Speaker 1: for your dad. And anyway, you are one of my favorites.
Speaker 1: You already know that, and uh I absolutely love and
Speaker 1: adore you, and I don't want another six years to
Speaker 1: pass before you know under these circumstances. Well, there you
Speaker 1: have it, folks. Laverne is amazing. Thank you so much
Speaker 1: for coming on and sharing your story with all of us.
Speaker 1: We all are the better for it. And to my listeners,
Speaker 1: thank you so much as always for tuning in week
Speaker 1: to week. Don't forget to leave me a review or
Speaker 1: give me a shout on Instagram or Twitter. I'll be
Speaker 1: back with another episode sooner than you think all right.
Speaker 1: Circle back later this week, same time, same place, but
Speaker 1: new interview for the other half of the crew that
Speaker 1: made us look so good, the charming and talented Debbie
Speaker 1: Pierce and Kim Ferry from the Office hair department. They're
Speaker 1: bringing on a new perspective to all of the behind
Speaker 1: the scene means beauty of the office and trust me,
Speaker 1: you're not gonna want to miss that one. So on
Speaker 1: that note, I will bid you adiear do you potato Patano?
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening everyone, and have a
Speaker 1: great one. The Office Deep Dive is hosted and executive
Speaker 1: produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer Lang Lee.
Speaker 1: Our senior producer is Tessa Kramer. Our producers for this
Speaker 1: episode are Liz Hayes and Diego Tapia. My main man
Speaker 1: in the booth is Alec Moore. Our theme song Bubble
Speaker 1: and Squeak, performed by my great friend Creed Bratton, and
Speaker 1: the episode was mixed by Seth o landskiper Adoption of
Speaker 1: teams from foster care is a topic not enough people
Speaker 1: know about, and we're here to change that. I'm April Dnuity,
Speaker 1: host of the new podcast Navigating Adoption, presented by adopt
Speaker 1: us Kids. Each episode brings you compelling, real life adoption
Speaker 1: stories told by the families that lived them, with commentary
Speaker 1: from experts. Visit adopt us Kids dot org, slash podcast,
Speaker 1: or subscribe to Navigating Adoption, presented by adopt us Kids,
Speaker 1: brought to you by the U S Department of Health
Speaker 1: and Human Services, Administration for Children and Families, and the
Speaker 1: ACT Council. I'm Paris Hilton and this is Trapped in Treatment,
Speaker 1: a weekly podcast of shocking survivor experiences and stories from
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Speaker 1: This one is personal. Listen to Trapped in Treatment on
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