WEBVTT - Keeping Up the Fight

0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:15.000
<v Speaker 1>Good morning, peeps, and welcome to OKP Daily with Meet

0:00:15.040 --> 0:00:19.279
<v Speaker 1>your Girl Daniel Moody recording from the Home Bunker. Folks,

0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:25.479
<v Speaker 1>you know, I gotta tell you this Senator Menendez story

0:00:26.480 --> 0:00:33.959
<v Speaker 1>is just straight out of a Bond movie featuring gold bricks,

0:00:34.320 --> 0:00:38.960
<v Speaker 1>half a million dollars in cash stuffed into soup pockets.

0:00:39.000 --> 0:00:44.640
<v Speaker 1>And what is getting me about this entire story. One,

0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:48.160
<v Speaker 1>this ain't the first fucking time he was indicted back

0:00:48.159 --> 0:00:53.000
<v Speaker 1>in twenty fifteen two. The fact that the only Democrats

0:00:53.120 --> 0:00:56.560
<v Speaker 1>as of the time of this recording coming out and

0:00:56.600 --> 0:01:01.080
<v Speaker 1>calling for his resignation inside of Congress or John Fetterman

0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:09.880
<v Speaker 1>and AOC And I'm like, so, y'all want to talk

0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:16.880
<v Speaker 1>about the Republican Party supporting grifters and lawless criminals, but

0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:21.000
<v Speaker 1>you don't want to call on your own fucking senator

0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:25.120
<v Speaker 1>the second time around that this motherfucker is indicted to

0:01:25.200 --> 0:01:28.600
<v Speaker 1>say that he needs to resign or step down right

0:01:28.720 --> 0:01:32.560
<v Speaker 1>like so right now he's no longer holding his chairmanship

0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:36.080
<v Speaker 1>inside of the Senate, but is saying like I will

0:01:36.080 --> 0:01:39.480
<v Speaker 1>fight this and I won't resign, and then wanting to

0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:44.959
<v Speaker 1>use his Latino heritage as a way to say that

0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:49.080
<v Speaker 1>what you're being persecuted, bitch. No, you're being persecuted because

0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:52.640
<v Speaker 1>you're a fucking criminal. And that instead of taking the

0:01:52.720 --> 0:01:57.160
<v Speaker 1>twenty fifteen indictment and hung jewelry as like oof got

0:01:57.200 --> 0:02:00.560
<v Speaker 1>away with it this time, won't do it again, decided

0:02:00.600 --> 0:02:04.520
<v Speaker 1>to fucking double down. That's why. So don't talk to

0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:07.240
<v Speaker 1>us about, oh, this is happening because you're Latino. This

0:02:07.360 --> 0:02:10.399
<v Speaker 1>is happening because oh my god, I'm being persecuted. It's

0:02:10.400 --> 0:02:14.480
<v Speaker 1>happening because who the fuck holds half a million dollars

0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:18.560
<v Speaker 1>in cash stuff throughout their home and gold bricks in

0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:23.520
<v Speaker 1>a safe No one, no one who is up to

0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:28.720
<v Speaker 1>actual good is doing that, right, Those are the actions

0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:31.720
<v Speaker 1>of someone that you know, what, if I got to

0:02:31.760 --> 0:02:33.839
<v Speaker 1>be on the run, I could be on the run

0:02:33.919 --> 0:02:36.880
<v Speaker 1>for quite some time. That's what the fuck that looks like.

0:02:37.440 --> 0:02:41.919
<v Speaker 1>And the fact that right now that there is silence

0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:50.080
<v Speaker 1>coming out of Schumer's office is wild to me, absolutely wild.

0:02:50.480 --> 0:02:53.040
<v Speaker 1>But I want folks to understand that this is a

0:02:53.080 --> 0:02:58.680
<v Speaker 1>product of Trumpism, right, This is a product of the

0:02:58.800 --> 0:03:05.640
<v Speaker 1>normalization of criminal activity and grifting and breaking of the

0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:09.360
<v Speaker 1>emolument's clause and breaking of oaths and no one being

0:03:09.400 --> 0:03:14.120
<v Speaker 1>held to account. So, hey, Democrats are like, well, if

0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:18.280
<v Speaker 1>Donald Trump isn't going to lose favor, maybe Menendez won't either. Well,

0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:23.840
<v Speaker 1>news flash, motherfuckers, Democrats actually have a different brain in

0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:27.280
<v Speaker 1>their head. And we are people that I actually want

0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:31.240
<v Speaker 1>to say, in large part, not everybody, but in large

0:03:31.280 --> 0:03:36.520
<v Speaker 1>part are directed by a moral compass, which is why

0:03:36.520 --> 0:03:41.400
<v Speaker 1>we are Democrats and not devoid of values and of

0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:47.400
<v Speaker 1>laws and of rules like the cult white supremacist Republican Party.

0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:52.520
<v Speaker 1>And so when you see that there are members that

0:03:52.600 --> 0:03:58.600
<v Speaker 1>are not upholding those same values and morals that you

0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:03.880
<v Speaker 1>are trying to show case as quote unquote the way,

0:04:04.720 --> 0:04:09.280
<v Speaker 1>then you look like a bunch of fucking hypocrites. And

0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:12.640
<v Speaker 1>now is not the time for people to be saying, well,

0:04:12.720 --> 0:04:17.760
<v Speaker 1>both sides are the same, because by not condemning Menendez

0:04:18.320 --> 0:04:21.160
<v Speaker 1>and going after him, what you were saying is that

0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:26.279
<v Speaker 1>his behavior and Donald Trump's behavior are acceptable behaviors for

0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:32.640
<v Speaker 1>politicians to have, and they should fucking not be. And

0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:36.400
<v Speaker 1>I cannot believe that we are in a place right

0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:41.320
<v Speaker 1>where this is even the case. But I'm telling you

0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:44.520
<v Speaker 1>this is why it's important not to just have quote

0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:49.039
<v Speaker 1>unquote norms, but to have things enshrined into law, which

0:04:49.080 --> 0:04:53.719
<v Speaker 1>is what Menendez and Trump have broken, as well as Oh,

0:04:53.880 --> 0:04:58.320
<v Speaker 1>looking at you, Clarence Thomas, because apparently this type level

0:04:58.360 --> 0:05:01.760
<v Speaker 1>of grift is only a pro and acceptable if you're

0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:07.359
<v Speaker 1>rocking a black robe. Just you know. This is why

0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:12.479
<v Speaker 1>it is behaviors like this from Thomas, from Trump, from

0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:16.800
<v Speaker 1>Menandez and others that have regular Americans want to throw

0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:21.640
<v Speaker 1>up their hands and say fuck politics. If we do not,

0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:30.160
<v Speaker 1>dear friends, rid ourselves of the bad apples, if we

0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:36.880
<v Speaker 1>do not find a balm and assault and an antidote

0:05:37.240 --> 0:05:42.039
<v Speaker 1>to this poisonous orchard, we are going to cease to

0:05:42.160 --> 0:05:45.640
<v Speaker 1>have the will to keep fighting for what is right.

0:05:47.560 --> 0:05:53.600
<v Speaker 1>Coming up next, dear friends, my conversation with Sky Perriman,

0:05:54.120 --> 0:05:59.120
<v Speaker 1>who is the president and CEO of Democracy Forward. Democracy

0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:03.160
<v Speaker 1>Forward is the is leading the legal fight against the

0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:07.839
<v Speaker 1>extremist policies you've seen in the headlines recently, from defending

0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:12.560
<v Speaker 1>President Biden's student loan forgiveness program to keeping medication abortion

0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:17.280
<v Speaker 1>available and others. This is a really rich conversation and

0:06:17.440 --> 0:06:23.920
<v Speaker 1>I hope, dear friends, you enjoy it. Folks, I am

0:06:24.080 --> 0:06:27.520
<v Speaker 1>very excited to welcome to OKF Daily for the very

0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:31.360
<v Speaker 1>first time, Sky Perryman, who is the president and CEO

0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:37.279
<v Speaker 1>of Democracy Forward. Democracy Forward is an organization that is

0:06:37.520 --> 0:06:40.760
<v Speaker 1>leading the legal fight against some of the extremist policies

0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:44.520
<v Speaker 1>that we talk about regularly on this show and that

0:06:44.560 --> 0:06:49.800
<v Speaker 1>you see in the headlines. Sky, you know, bring us in.

0:06:50.200 --> 0:06:54.680
<v Speaker 1>Tell us what it is that Democracy Forward does and

0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:57.440
<v Speaker 1>why it's so critical at this juncture.

0:06:58.240 --> 0:07:01.160
<v Speaker 2>Thanks for having me on the Democracy Forward is an

0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:04.400
<v Speaker 2>organization that was started in the wake of the twenty

0:07:04.480 --> 0:07:08.880
<v Speaker 2>sixteen election, when it was clear that we were approaching

0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:12.680
<v Speaker 2>a time in American life that was very concerning from

0:07:12.720 --> 0:07:16.080
<v Speaker 2>the perspective of our democracy. We know that for the

0:07:16.120 --> 0:07:18.800
<v Speaker 2>whole country's history, there's a lot of work that needs

0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:21.720
<v Speaker 2>to be done to fulfill the promise of democracy for

0:07:21.840 --> 0:07:24.760
<v Speaker 2>all people, and that's always the work and the struggle.

0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:27.720
<v Speaker 2>But after the twenty sixteen election, it became clear that

0:07:27.760 --> 0:07:30.680
<v Speaker 2>the struggle was getting harder because it wasn't just about

0:07:30.720 --> 0:07:33.680
<v Speaker 2>being able to move forward and fulfill that promise of democracy,

0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:36.520
<v Speaker 2>but there was a real need to protect our very

0:07:36.520 --> 0:07:40.440
<v Speaker 2>democratic institutions because of the movement in the country that

0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:44.800
<v Speaker 2>was epitomized by former President Trump that was really seeking

0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:48.520
<v Speaker 2>to undermine our very democracy, and so our organization started.

0:07:49.280 --> 0:07:53.440
<v Speaker 2>Our principal tool is the law. We bring lawsuits and

0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:57.760
<v Speaker 2>we help people utilize the legal process in order to

0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:00.920
<v Speaker 2>fight for the promise of democracy for all people. In

0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:04.000
<v Speaker 2>our first four years, we brought over one hundred substantive

0:08:04.040 --> 0:08:07.000
<v Speaker 2>cases against the Trump administration and took over six hundred

0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:11.040
<v Speaker 2>and fifty actions and stopped a range of harmful policies,

0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:14.560
<v Speaker 2>including work that led to the disbandment of the Trump

0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:18.680
<v Speaker 2>Pence Cobok Voter Commission and Trump's voter suppression efforts, with

0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:23.240
<v Speaker 2>a variety of other things. And then in twenty twenty one,

0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:27.000
<v Speaker 2>we saw in January sixth that the threats to democracy

0:08:27.080 --> 0:08:30.440
<v Speaker 2>were not going to leave when Trump left the White House,

0:08:30.800 --> 0:08:34.600
<v Speaker 2>but were in fact had spread throughout the country and

0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:37.920
<v Speaker 2>there was a range of regressive actors that were really

0:08:37.960 --> 0:08:41.960
<v Speaker 2>seeking to break down our democratic processes in states and

0:08:42.000 --> 0:08:45.040
<v Speaker 2>local communities throughout the country. And so since that time

0:08:45.520 --> 0:08:48.360
<v Speaker 2>we have been focused on making sure that people and

0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:52.840
<v Speaker 2>communities and democracy has a really good lawyer in court

0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:56.960
<v Speaker 2>and in the legal process every day seeking to work

0:08:57.040 --> 0:08:58.760
<v Speaker 2>to bring about the promise of democracy.

0:09:01.760 --> 0:09:04.760
<v Speaker 1>You know what's wild to me, Sky One, is you

0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:08.480
<v Speaker 1>know I regret probably every year since Donald Trump has

0:09:08.520 --> 0:09:11.520
<v Speaker 1>been elected that I did not go to law school,

0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:16.200
<v Speaker 1>because I will tell you that I have never admired

0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:23.640
<v Speaker 1>lawyers more than during the last seven plus years of

0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:28.199
<v Speaker 1>the rise of trump Ism and their desire to use

0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:32.440
<v Speaker 1>to weaponize our judicial system as a way to push

0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:36.480
<v Speaker 1>forward some of their most extreme agenda. And the question

0:09:36.600 --> 0:09:39.640
<v Speaker 1>that I have for you is, I mean, it's like

0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:43.760
<v Speaker 1>playing whack a mole with the policies that are coming

0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:47.000
<v Speaker 1>out across this country. If you're looking at Florida and

0:09:47.040 --> 0:09:50.480
<v Speaker 1>the book bands and the abortion bands and the changes

0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:55.559
<v Speaker 1>in curriculum, and you know, if you're looking in Wisconsin

0:09:55.880 --> 0:09:58.840
<v Speaker 1>at the threats to throw out a Supreme a Supreme

0:09:58.880 --> 0:10:02.320
<v Speaker 1>Court justice that was duly elected before she even has

0:10:02.360 --> 0:10:05.040
<v Speaker 1>the opportunity to hear a case. If you're looking at Texas,

0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:11.760
<v Speaker 1>how does your organization decide when and where to hit

0:10:11.840 --> 0:10:12.680
<v Speaker 1>the ground running.

0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:16.840
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely well, first of all, I'm glad you do what

0:10:16.880 --> 0:10:19.600
<v Speaker 2>you do, because I'm one of your listeners. I'm glad

0:10:19.640 --> 0:10:23.720
<v Speaker 2>to do witha We need all types of professions and

0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:26.320
<v Speaker 2>folks in the fight for democracy today, and the work

0:10:26.360 --> 0:10:28.920
<v Speaker 2>that you do to amplify these issues is incredibly important,

0:10:29.160 --> 0:10:32.480
<v Speaker 2>but lawyers also are having a moment. So while it

0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:35.959
<v Speaker 2>does seem like this chaotic whack a mole, what we

0:10:36.040 --> 0:10:39.480
<v Speaker 2>have learned in our work is that the attacks on

0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:42.920
<v Speaker 2>democracy did not really start and they certainly did not

0:10:43.120 --> 0:10:47.360
<v Speaker 2>end with Trump. But many of them are the brain

0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:52.840
<v Speaker 2>children of extremist legal organizations that have for many years

0:10:53.200 --> 0:10:56.360
<v Speaker 2>been seeking to roll back the progress that our country

0:10:56.360 --> 0:10:59.800
<v Speaker 2>has made, seeking to try to roll back progress made

0:10:59.800 --> 0:11:02.120
<v Speaker 2>through the law. You see this epitomized, of course in

0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:05.360
<v Speaker 2>the Dobbs decision, but there are many other examples as well,

0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:08.400
<v Speaker 2>and so at Democracy Forward we do a lot of

0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:13.320
<v Speaker 2>work to understand what these extremist groups are doing and

0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:18.840
<v Speaker 2>the patterns of their activity. So they will attack anything

0:11:20.120 --> 0:11:24.280
<v Speaker 2>that seeks to amplify or provide voice to all the

0:11:24.320 --> 0:11:26.920
<v Speaker 2>people in this country. This is a movement that wants

0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:31.439
<v Speaker 2>a democracy for some and not for all. So when

0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:34.440
<v Speaker 2>you see that pattern, you can see that it's no

0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:39.679
<v Speaker 2>mistake that the same groups that have been behind seeking

0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:43.120
<v Speaker 2>to perpetuate the Big Lie or seeking to undermine the

0:11:43.160 --> 0:11:46.120
<v Speaker 2>ability of people to vote, they are the same groups

0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:49.320
<v Speaker 2>and networks and funding networks that were behind trying to

0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:53.960
<v Speaker 2>deprive people of reproductive health care and abortion care. They're

0:11:53.960 --> 0:11:58.000
<v Speaker 2>the same groups that don't want truthful history taught in

0:11:58.040 --> 0:12:01.520
<v Speaker 2>our schools, that are seeking to ban books and ideas

0:12:01.840 --> 0:12:05.880
<v Speaker 2>because really the theme there is they're seeking to build

0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:08.520
<v Speaker 2>a society in their own image for some and not

0:12:08.640 --> 0:12:12.520
<v Speaker 2>for all. So once you understand that map and that

0:12:12.600 --> 0:12:16.319
<v Speaker 2>pattern of behavior, it allows you to be more strategic

0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:19.400
<v Speaker 2>and to understand where the fights are going to be

0:12:19.480 --> 0:12:21.720
<v Speaker 2>and to be able to get prepared. And so that's

0:12:21.760 --> 0:12:24.080
<v Speaker 2>really what we seek to do it democracy forward. We

0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:26.520
<v Speaker 2>don't have it all figured out, but we do know

0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:29.080
<v Speaker 2>where these patterns are and we know that there is

0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:32.400
<v Speaker 2>a vast majority of the American people believe in the

0:12:32.400 --> 0:12:36.040
<v Speaker 2>promise and potential in democracy, and we're seeing them use

0:12:36.080 --> 0:12:38.880
<v Speaker 2>their power and platform, and we're really seeking to equip

0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:41.520
<v Speaker 2>people in communities with legal tools to do so. I

0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:43.800
<v Speaker 2>can give you some examples of that, but that's sort

0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:46.120
<v Speaker 2>of how we break through the whack a mole is

0:12:46.160 --> 0:12:50.360
<v Speaker 2>through really understanding that power playbook that these anti democratic

0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:55.360
<v Speaker 2>extremists are operating from. They will actually tell you what

0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:57.199
<v Speaker 2>they're going to do, and we need to believe people

0:12:57.200 --> 0:12:59.959
<v Speaker 2>when they show you there, ye yeah, and we take

0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:02.920
<v Speaker 2>at their word. Just like we took trumpet as a word,

0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:05.520
<v Speaker 2>and we get prepared and go fight in court and

0:13:05.600 --> 0:13:07.760
<v Speaker 2>in other aspects of the legal process.

0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:10.000
<v Speaker 1>You know, I think that it's really important too that

0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:12.520
<v Speaker 1>you refer to this as a movement, right, you refer

0:13:12.600 --> 0:13:15.440
<v Speaker 1>to it as a movement, and that you are identifying

0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:18.440
<v Speaker 1>where you are seeing the patterns, because the playbook is

0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:21.480
<v Speaker 1>not new, right, They just have different tools than they

0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:23.640
<v Speaker 1>were using in the twentieth century that they are now

0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:26.640
<v Speaker 1>using in the twenty first century. But the playbook is

0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:29.680
<v Speaker 1>not new, and so you know, I do want you

0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:32.720
<v Speaker 1>to provide some examples, but things that I'm interested in,

0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:35.520
<v Speaker 1>and I wonder if some of your examples are around

0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:39.959
<v Speaker 1>this are with regard to the way that school boards

0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:44.280
<v Speaker 1>have been taken over and have become schools which have

0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:47.880
<v Speaker 1>always been on the front line for social justice and

0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:50.880
<v Speaker 1>racial justice in this country since Brown versus the Board

0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:54.800
<v Speaker 1>of Education and other fights that we have seen, you know,

0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:58.400
<v Speaker 1>the prayer not being a part of school that was

0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:03.720
<v Speaker 1>a legal battle. And so when you see their push

0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:06.120
<v Speaker 1>to take over school boards, when you see the push

0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:09.920
<v Speaker 1>to ban books and criminalize librarians, I want you to

0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:13.559
<v Speaker 1>take this school's piece and tell us how you know

0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:18.880
<v Speaker 1>your organization, Democracy Forward is fighting a back against this

0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:25.560
<v Speaker 1>movement to basically ban critical thinking and indoctrinate our children

0:14:25.800 --> 0:14:28.720
<v Speaker 1>with false ideals and expectations of America.

0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:32.280
<v Speaker 2>Well, one is we admit that's what it is. It

0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:34.200
<v Speaker 2>is a movement. That is what they want to do.

0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:36.080
<v Speaker 2>They may say they don't want to ban books, and

0:14:36.120 --> 0:14:40.120
<v Speaker 2>they're just trying to put in certain regulations or restrictions

0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:42.600
<v Speaker 2>on ideas, but this is the movement that we've seen.

0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:44.760
<v Speaker 2>This is what they're after, and so we approach it

0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:49.360
<v Speaker 2>both in strategic ways and in very local ways. We've

0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:51.960
<v Speaker 2>done a lot of work with teachers who are really

0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:56.320
<v Speaker 2>bearing the brunt in many instances of these the censorship Agenda.

0:14:56.800 --> 0:15:00.720
<v Speaker 2>Have represented teachers in a number of you know, a

0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:06.920
<v Speaker 2>number of of of actions, including one in Florida which

0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:08.960
<v Speaker 2>was not successful. I mean, we win some and we

0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:12.400
<v Speaker 2>lose some. We do win a lot, but it's really

0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:15.680
<v Speaker 2>important that even in the times where we're not able

0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:18.520
<v Speaker 2>to win every time, that people are using their their

0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:23.600
<v Speaker 2>voices to push back. If in Arkansas, we're representing a

0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:28.080
<v Speaker 2>number of librarians alongside a coalition of booksellers and others

0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:33.120
<v Speaker 2>to and have successfully blocked the States law that would

0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:37.520
<v Speaker 2>criminally penalize librarians and then in local communities, which is

0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:40.800
<v Speaker 2>what you're raising. These this hyper local effort that we

0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:45.720
<v Speaker 2>see which we're equipping community groups and parents as well

0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:48.840
<v Speaker 2>as teachers with tools to fight back. What we know

0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:52.080
<v Speaker 2>is that this is a movement that does not represent

0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:55.960
<v Speaker 2>the majority of Americans, the censorship movement. That is that

0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:58.760
<v Speaker 2>they are seeking to make it look like that they're

0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:05.400
<v Speaker 2>organic movements within communities across the country that are concerned

0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:08.120
<v Speaker 2>about books and ideas. What it really is is a

0:16:08.160 --> 0:16:12.320
<v Speaker 2>coalition of national groups that are trying to make headway

0:16:12.520 --> 0:16:15.400
<v Speaker 2>in local communities that they target. And so a lot

0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:18.760
<v Speaker 2>of our work is working with communities and people to

0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:22.960
<v Speaker 2>request records, to request public information that has to be

0:16:23.000 --> 0:16:25.840
<v Speaker 2>made public under the law, in order to figure out

0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:29.880
<v Speaker 2>who is behind these efforts. Guess what, It's not an

0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:33.240
<v Speaker 2>organic movement of concerned parents. It is national groups that

0:16:33.320 --> 0:16:35.960
<v Speaker 2>are speaking that in by democracy. So we do a

0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:39.840
<v Speaker 2>lot of that exposure work and then based on that

0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:43.040
<v Speaker 2>there sometimes can be substantive legal challenges, like what we've

0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:46.160
<v Speaker 2>done in Arkansas and like some others that we're working

0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:48.560
<v Speaker 2>up in other states. So that is what we're doing.

0:16:48.880 --> 0:16:51.920
<v Speaker 2>We also do a lot of education, which is making

0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:55.080
<v Speaker 2>sure that people that are going about their everyday lives,

0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:58.720
<v Speaker 2>folks that didn't go to law school, understand the legal

0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:01.400
<v Speaker 2>tools that are available and that can be used. Because

0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:03.800
<v Speaker 2>the law is for all of us, it's not just

0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:05.760
<v Speaker 2>for some of us, and so we do a lot

0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:08.520
<v Speaker 2>of work to make sure that whether it's folks on

0:17:08.560 --> 0:17:12.439
<v Speaker 2>school boards or parents or teachers, understand the types of

0:17:12.480 --> 0:17:14.160
<v Speaker 2>tools they have to fight back.

0:17:17.359 --> 0:17:21.520
<v Speaker 1>You know, we have always used the legal system as

0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:25.560
<v Speaker 1>the course and the path towards equity. It hasn't been

0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:31.199
<v Speaker 1>through the legislative branches. It has been through the judicial system,

0:17:31.320 --> 0:17:36.040
<v Speaker 1>legalizing rights that were only provided to some, and decade

0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:39.480
<v Speaker 1>by decade, inch by inch, we've been able to acquire

0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:44.840
<v Speaker 1>and fight for for other marginalized groups. What we saw, however,

0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:50.040
<v Speaker 1>Sky during the Trump administration was this, I mean, all

0:17:50.160 --> 0:17:54.119
<v Speaker 1>out assault on our judicial system at the hands of

0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:58.399
<v Speaker 1>Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump to place as many extreme

0:17:58.440 --> 0:18:03.160
<v Speaker 1>as judges right across the country in lifetime appointments as

0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:08.359
<v Speaker 1>they possibly could. Can you talk to us about that

0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:13.360
<v Speaker 1>tactic that has been very successful on the right and

0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:18.320
<v Speaker 1>what your expectations are as. We really reckon with the

0:18:18.359 --> 0:18:22.919
<v Speaker 1>fact that there was not any pushback to the placements

0:18:22.920 --> 0:18:26.679
<v Speaker 1>of these judges, and that the Republican Party has always

0:18:27.080 --> 0:18:30.440
<v Speaker 1>known and has been creating this strategy for the last

0:18:30.480 --> 0:18:33.760
<v Speaker 1>forty years to stop progress dead in its track.

0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:38.639
<v Speaker 2>Well, I think, and we say a lot of democracy

0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:42.159
<v Speaker 2>forward that right now the courts are a frontline in

0:18:42.240 --> 0:18:45.120
<v Speaker 2>the battle for democracy, not just a last resort. They've

0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:47.840
<v Speaker 2>often finished that the place that you go to redress

0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:51.399
<v Speaker 2>your grievances. Yeah, this passes the Voting Rights Act, and

0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:54.399
<v Speaker 2>states don't want to comply, and so where do you go?

0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:57.480
<v Speaker 2>You go to court in order to enforce your rights.

0:18:57.760 --> 0:19:02.800
<v Speaker 2>That's unfortunately, you know, we're seeing that there is a

0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:06.159
<v Speaker 2>legal movement to seek to make the courts not a

0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:09.560
<v Speaker 2>place where people can go and expect that type of

0:19:09.600 --> 0:19:12.879
<v Speaker 2>protection of their rights. So we say that the courts

0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:15.320
<v Speaker 2>are both a front line and a last resort. We

0:19:15.359 --> 0:19:18.479
<v Speaker 2>see in our work every day where judges, including judges

0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:22.960
<v Speaker 2>appointed from all different perspectives, will side on the on

0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:25.080
<v Speaker 2>the side of the Constitution, on the side of the

0:19:25.160 --> 0:19:28.119
<v Speaker 2>rights of people. And we also see an unfortunate trend,

0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:31.760
<v Speaker 2>including at the highest court, where in many cases that

0:19:31.920 --> 0:19:35.159
<v Speaker 2>is not the case because of the composition of the

0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:38.880
<v Speaker 2>judicial branch right now. It's important to remember that President

0:19:38.920 --> 0:19:43.320
<v Speaker 2>Biden has now appointed more judges than President Trump appointed,

0:19:43.359 --> 0:19:47.199
<v Speaker 2>and so the judicial you know, composition is changing. Uh,

0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:52.800
<v Speaker 2>but there is still a real need for for uh,

0:19:53.320 --> 0:19:55.240
<v Speaker 2>the law to really act for all people. And so

0:19:55.400 --> 0:19:57.320
<v Speaker 2>let me let me say what we do in response

0:19:57.359 --> 0:19:59.320
<v Speaker 2>to that. Because we're a group that's what uses the

0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:03.959
<v Speaker 2>law as a tool, and we have a really difficult landscape. So,

0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:07.679
<v Speaker 2>first of all, because we recognize that the courts are

0:20:07.720 --> 0:20:09.800
<v Speaker 2>a front line, we know we have to be there

0:20:09.840 --> 0:20:12.720
<v Speaker 2>whether we like them or not. You know, I believe

0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:15.919
<v Speaker 2>in courts. I believe that it's important to have a

0:20:15.960 --> 0:20:19.040
<v Speaker 2>court system that's protecting the rights of all, that's making

0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:23.760
<v Speaker 2>sure that rights are protected. But regardless of whether you're

0:20:23.800 --> 0:20:27.240
<v Speaker 2>disillusioned with the courts or you know, upset with them

0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:29.719
<v Speaker 2>or whatever, you've got to be there to make your

0:20:29.760 --> 0:20:32.439
<v Speaker 2>voice heard, because that is where this right wing movement

0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:35.439
<v Speaker 2>is seeking to go. Every time something wins in the

0:20:35.480 --> 0:20:38.400
<v Speaker 2>ballot box, whether it is a minimum wage law or

0:20:38.440 --> 0:20:42.399
<v Speaker 2>a reproductive justice law at the state level, you see

0:20:43.200 --> 0:20:46.160
<v Speaker 2>an effort to roll it back in the courts. Because

0:20:46.160 --> 0:20:48.199
<v Speaker 2>of these right wing groups going to court, And so

0:20:48.240 --> 0:20:50.199
<v Speaker 2>what we try to do is make sure that people

0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:53.800
<v Speaker 2>on the democracy side of history, people that believe that

0:20:53.880 --> 0:20:56.320
<v Speaker 2>our next, our best days can be in front of us,

0:20:56.640 --> 0:20:59.120
<v Speaker 2>that believe in the promise of democracy to all have

0:20:59.240 --> 0:21:02.280
<v Speaker 2>tools to fight back, that they're filing briefs in cases

0:21:02.359 --> 0:21:04.399
<v Speaker 2>that they're weighing in at the court, that they're making

0:21:04.440 --> 0:21:07.880
<v Speaker 2>sure that they are represented in that third branch of government,

0:21:08.040 --> 0:21:10.720
<v Speaker 2>just like they're supposed to be represented in the other

0:21:10.760 --> 0:21:13.240
<v Speaker 2>two branches of government. So that's kind of how we

0:21:13.320 --> 0:21:15.640
<v Speaker 2>have dealt with that at Democracy forward, as well as

0:21:15.720 --> 0:21:19.359
<v Speaker 2>continuing to use the law and continuing to use the

0:21:19.400 --> 0:21:25.119
<v Speaker 2>courts as a tool to disrupt unlawful and bad activity.

0:21:25.160 --> 0:21:27.439
<v Speaker 2>And we see in our work every day that change

0:21:27.480 --> 0:21:30.200
<v Speaker 2>can still be made through the courts, but we also

0:21:30.240 --> 0:21:32.439
<v Speaker 2>see in our work every day that it really takes

0:21:32.520 --> 0:21:36.359
<v Speaker 2>all tools available, and the law is not the only tool,

0:21:36.480 --> 0:21:38.880
<v Speaker 2>but is one of so many tools that people need

0:21:38.880 --> 0:21:40.560
<v Speaker 2>to be using in this time.

0:21:41.640 --> 0:21:44.359
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know, and I think that that is critical

0:21:44.600 --> 0:21:49.320
<v Speaker 1>that people understand that this is not a time when

0:21:49.359 --> 0:21:52.439
<v Speaker 1>we need to just be looking at one mechanism to

0:21:52.520 --> 0:21:56.119
<v Speaker 1>hold on to democracy. That we need to be using

0:21:56.800 --> 0:22:01.040
<v Speaker 1>every single strategy, every single tactic, every single tool within

0:22:01.080 --> 0:22:07.000
<v Speaker 1>our toolbox, because we are, as was stated in twenty

0:22:07.040 --> 0:22:12.119
<v Speaker 1>twenty one, a backsliding democracy. Sky the one of the

0:22:12.160 --> 0:22:14.880
<v Speaker 1>last questions that I have for you, you know, in

0:22:14.960 --> 0:22:20.080
<v Speaker 1>that right that report that had come out I believe

0:22:20.119 --> 0:22:22.240
<v Speaker 1>it was twenty twenty one or twenty twenty two that

0:22:22.400 --> 0:22:26.359
<v Speaker 1>said that for the first time ever, that America was

0:22:26.400 --> 0:22:33.119
<v Speaker 1>a backsliding democracy. Do you think that people, truly the

0:22:33.160 --> 0:22:38.000
<v Speaker 1>citizens of this country recognize what that means and that

0:22:39.320 --> 0:22:43.960
<v Speaker 1>this election, this time, this moment is one of the

0:22:43.960 --> 0:22:47.920
<v Speaker 1>most consequential that we have ever faced in the two

0:22:48.040 --> 0:22:51.280
<v Speaker 1>hundred and forty plus years of this country's existence.

0:22:52.400 --> 0:22:54.159
<v Speaker 2>Well, we have to hope that they do, and we're

0:22:54.200 --> 0:22:55.919
<v Speaker 2>going to do everything we can. I know, You're going

0:22:55.960 --> 0:22:58.600
<v Speaker 2>to do everything we can to make sure that people understand.

0:22:58.960 --> 0:23:01.879
<v Speaker 2>One of the main tools that this anti democratic movement

0:23:02.040 --> 0:23:07.080
<v Speaker 2>uses is they try to convince people that the game

0:23:07.200 --> 0:23:11.320
<v Speaker 2>is over, the deck is already done, that there's nothing

0:23:11.320 --> 0:23:13.160
<v Speaker 2>that you can do to make change. That's what they

0:23:13.240 --> 0:23:16.720
<v Speaker 2>want people to believe. Because they want folks to give up,

0:23:17.080 --> 0:23:20.480
<v Speaker 2>to not vote, to think that progress can't happen. They

0:23:20.480 --> 0:23:22.760
<v Speaker 2>want you to abandon the court, to not try to

0:23:22.840 --> 0:23:25.120
<v Speaker 2>go make your case in court anymore, because they want

0:23:25.160 --> 0:23:27.560
<v Speaker 2>to say, well, you know, we've got this, We've already

0:23:27.600 --> 0:23:30.159
<v Speaker 2>won this fight. And so one of the major things

0:23:30.200 --> 0:23:32.920
<v Speaker 2>that we all need to be doing is to remind

0:23:33.040 --> 0:23:36.200
<v Speaker 2>each other and to remind ourselves the ability that we

0:23:36.320 --> 0:23:39.159
<v Speaker 2>have as people in this country to push back and

0:23:39.160 --> 0:23:41.800
<v Speaker 2>to fight for that future. We've seen that in some

0:23:41.960 --> 0:23:46.960
<v Speaker 2>recent elections where folks have you know, issues have won

0:23:47.000 --> 0:23:50.120
<v Speaker 2>on the ballot and people have really voted out their

0:23:50.160 --> 0:23:53.360
<v Speaker 2>principles and their belief in democracy. And so we have

0:23:53.400 --> 0:23:56.000
<v Speaker 2>to hope that is what will happen in twenty twenty

0:23:56.040 --> 0:23:58.760
<v Speaker 2>four and in all the elections to come, and to

0:23:58.880 --> 0:24:00.560
<v Speaker 2>work really for that.

0:24:02.480 --> 0:24:05.480
<v Speaker 1>Amazing and I can't thank you enough for the work

0:24:05.640 --> 0:24:09.959
<v Speaker 1>that you and your organization are doing. It is so

0:24:10.280 --> 0:24:14.600
<v Speaker 1>incredibly vital. Please tell you know the listeners of OKF

0:24:14.720 --> 0:24:18.680
<v Speaker 1>who are always asking and looking for opportunities to get involved,

0:24:18.960 --> 0:24:21.199
<v Speaker 1>feel less hopeless and feel like they are part of

0:24:21.240 --> 0:24:23.840
<v Speaker 1>the solution on how they can get involved.

0:24:24.520 --> 0:24:28.040
<v Speaker 2>Great. Well, the first thing is please go on to

0:24:28.160 --> 0:24:31.000
<v Speaker 2>whatever social media platform you're on and get on the

0:24:31.000 --> 0:24:34.960
<v Speaker 2>internet and follow us. We're at Democracyforward dot org. We're

0:24:34.960 --> 0:24:38.720
<v Speaker 2>on all the platforms follow our work because we actually

0:24:38.840 --> 0:24:42.360
<v Speaker 2>you'll see what we're doing. And a lot of our

0:24:42.359 --> 0:24:44.600
<v Speaker 2>work is in the communities that your listeners are in

0:24:44.960 --> 0:24:47.080
<v Speaker 2>and we love it. We encourage you to reach out.

0:24:47.119 --> 0:24:49.919
<v Speaker 2>We have email you know, on our website, lots of

0:24:49.960 --> 0:24:52.320
<v Speaker 2>ways to get in touch through dms and others. Please

0:24:52.359 --> 0:24:55.440
<v Speaker 2>reach out. We work with folks all over the country

0:24:55.720 --> 0:24:57.480
<v Speaker 2>and want to have you involved in our work.

0:24:58.400 --> 0:25:00.639
<v Speaker 1>Scott, thank you so much for making the time to

0:25:00.760 --> 0:25:03.800
<v Speaker 1>join Woke f and thank you so much for the

0:25:03.840 --> 0:25:05.400
<v Speaker 1>work that you do, and I hope that you will

0:25:05.400 --> 0:25:08.320
<v Speaker 1>come back on and keep us up to date on

0:25:08.680 --> 0:25:11.280
<v Speaker 1>the cases that you are weighing in on. We really

0:25:11.320 --> 0:25:11.919
<v Speaker 1>appreciate you.

0:25:12.400 --> 0:25:13.080
<v Speaker 2>Thanks so much.

0:25:18.560 --> 0:25:22.680
<v Speaker 1>That is it for me today on Woke af as always.

0:25:23.119 --> 0:25:26.159
<v Speaker 1>Power to the people and to all the people. Power,

0:25:26.440 --> 0:25:29.040
<v Speaker 1>get woke and stay woke as fuck.