Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to OKP Daily with Meet
Speaker 1: your Girl Daniel Moody recording from the Home Bunker. Folks,
Speaker 1: you know, I gotta tell you this Senator Menendez story
Speaker 1: is just straight out of a Bond movie featuring gold bricks,
Speaker 1: half a million dollars in cash stuffed into soup pockets.
Speaker 1: And what is getting me about this entire story. One,
Speaker 1: this ain't the first fucking time he was indicted back
Speaker 1: in twenty fifteen two. The fact that the only Democrats
Speaker 1: as of the time of this recording coming out and
Speaker 1: calling for his resignation inside of Congress or John Fetterman
Speaker 1: and AOC And I'm like, so, y'all want to talk
Speaker 1: about the Republican Party supporting grifters and lawless criminals, but
Speaker 1: you don't want to call on your own fucking senator
Speaker 1: the second time around that this motherfucker is indicted to
Speaker 1: say that he needs to resign or step down right
Speaker 1: like so right now he's no longer holding his chairmanship
Speaker 1: inside of the Senate, but is saying like I will
Speaker 1: fight this and I won't resign, and then wanting to
Speaker 1: use his Latino heritage as a way to say that
Speaker 1: what you're being persecuted, bitch. No, you're being persecuted because
Speaker 1: you're a fucking criminal. And that instead of taking the
Speaker 1: twenty fifteen indictment and hung jewelry as like oof got
Speaker 1: away with it this time, won't do it again, decided
Speaker 1: to fucking double down. That's why. So don't talk to
Speaker 1: us about, oh, this is happening because you're Latino. This
Speaker 1: is happening because oh my god, I'm being persecuted. It's
Speaker 1: happening because who the fuck holds half a million dollars
Speaker 1: in cash stuff throughout their home and gold bricks in
Speaker 1: a safe No one, no one who is up to
Speaker 1: actual good is doing that, right, Those are the actions
Speaker 1: of someone that you know, what, if I got to
Speaker 1: be on the run, I could be on the run
Speaker 1: for quite some time. That's what the fuck that looks like.
Speaker 1: And the fact that right now that there is silence
Speaker 1: coming out of Schumer's office is wild to me, absolutely wild.
Speaker 1: But I want folks to understand that this is a
Speaker 1: product of Trumpism, right, This is a product of the
Speaker 1: normalization of criminal activity and grifting and breaking of the
Speaker 1: emolument's clause and breaking of oaths and no one being
Speaker 1: held to account. So, hey, Democrats are like, well, if
Speaker 1: Donald Trump isn't going to lose favor, maybe Menendez won't either. Well,
Speaker 1: news flash, motherfuckers, Democrats actually have a different brain in
Speaker 1: their head. And we are people that I actually want
Speaker 1: to say, in large part, not everybody, but in large
Speaker 1: part are directed by a moral compass, which is why
Speaker 1: we are Democrats and not devoid of values and of
Speaker 1: laws and of rules like the cult white supremacist Republican Party.
Speaker 1: And so when you see that there are members that
Speaker 1: are not upholding those same values and morals that you
Speaker 1: are trying to show case as quote unquote the way,
Speaker 1: then you look like a bunch of fucking hypocrites. And
Speaker 1: now is not the time for people to be saying, well,
Speaker 1: both sides are the same, because by not condemning Menendez
Speaker 1: and going after him, what you were saying is that
Speaker 1: his behavior and Donald Trump's behavior are acceptable behaviors for
Speaker 1: politicians to have, and they should fucking not be. And
Speaker 1: I cannot believe that we are in a place right
Speaker 1: where this is even the case. But I'm telling you
Speaker 1: this is why it's important not to just have quote
Speaker 1: unquote norms, but to have things enshrined into law, which
Speaker 1: is what Menendez and Trump have broken, as well as Oh,
Speaker 1: looking at you, Clarence Thomas, because apparently this type level
Speaker 1: of grift is only a pro and acceptable if you're
Speaker 1: rocking a black robe. Just you know. This is why
Speaker 1: it is behaviors like this from Thomas, from Trump, from
Speaker 1: Menandez and others that have regular Americans want to throw
Speaker 1: up their hands and say fuck politics. If we do not,
Speaker 1: dear friends, rid ourselves of the bad apples, if we
Speaker 1: do not find a balm and assault and an antidote
Speaker 1: to this poisonous orchard, we are going to cease to
Speaker 1: have the will to keep fighting for what is right.
Speaker 1: Coming up next, dear friends, my conversation with Sky Perriman,
Speaker 1: who is the president and CEO of Democracy Forward. Democracy
Speaker 1: Forward is the is leading the legal fight against the
Speaker 1: extremist policies you've seen in the headlines recently, from defending
Speaker 1: President Biden's student loan forgiveness program to keeping medication abortion
Speaker 1: available and others. This is a really rich conversation and
Speaker 1: I hope, dear friends, you enjoy it. Folks, I am
Speaker 1: very excited to welcome to OKF Daily for the very
Speaker 1: first time, Sky Perryman, who is the president and CEO
Speaker 1: of Democracy Forward. Democracy Forward is an organization that is
Speaker 1: leading the legal fight against some of the extremist policies
Speaker 1: that we talk about regularly on this show and that
Speaker 1: you see in the headlines. Sky, you know, bring us in.
Speaker 1: Tell us what it is that Democracy Forward does and
Speaker 1: why it's so critical at this juncture.
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me on the Democracy Forward is an
Speaker 2: organization that was started in the wake of the twenty
Speaker 2: sixteen election, when it was clear that we were approaching
Speaker 2: a time in American life that was very concerning from
Speaker 2: the perspective of our democracy. We know that for the
Speaker 2: whole country's history, there's a lot of work that needs
Speaker 2: to be done to fulfill the promise of democracy for
Speaker 2: all people, and that's always the work and the struggle.
Speaker 2: But after the twenty sixteen election, it became clear that
Speaker 2: the struggle was getting harder because it wasn't just about
Speaker 2: being able to move forward and fulfill that promise of democracy,
Speaker 2: but there was a real need to protect our very
Speaker 2: democratic institutions because of the movement in the country that
Speaker 2: was epitomized by former President Trump that was really seeking
Speaker 2: to undermine our very democracy, and so our organization started.
Speaker 2: Our principal tool is the law. We bring lawsuits and
Speaker 2: we help people utilize the legal process in order to
Speaker 2: fight for the promise of democracy for all people. In
Speaker 2: our first four years, we brought over one hundred substantive
Speaker 2: cases against the Trump administration and took over six hundred
Speaker 2: and fifty actions and stopped a range of harmful policies,
Speaker 2: including work that led to the disbandment of the Trump
Speaker 2: Pence Cobok Voter Commission and Trump's voter suppression efforts, with
Speaker 2: a variety of other things. And then in twenty twenty one,
Speaker 2: we saw in January sixth that the threats to democracy
Speaker 2: were not going to leave when Trump left the White House,
Speaker 2: but were in fact had spread throughout the country and
Speaker 2: there was a range of regressive actors that were really
Speaker 2: seeking to break down our democratic processes in states and
Speaker 2: local communities throughout the country. And so since that time
Speaker 2: we have been focused on making sure that people and
Speaker 2: communities and democracy has a really good lawyer in court
Speaker 2: and in the legal process every day seeking to work
Speaker 2: to bring about the promise of democracy.
Speaker 1: You know what's wild to me, Sky One, is you
Speaker 1: know I regret probably every year since Donald Trump has
Speaker 1: been elected that I did not go to law school,
Speaker 1: because I will tell you that I have never admired
Speaker 1: lawyers more than during the last seven plus years of
Speaker 1: the rise of trump Ism and their desire to use
Speaker 1: to weaponize our judicial system as a way to push
Speaker 1: forward some of their most extreme agenda. And the question
Speaker 1: that I have for you is, I mean, it's like
Speaker 1: playing whack a mole with the policies that are coming
Speaker 1: out across this country. If you're looking at Florida and
Speaker 1: the book bands and the abortion bands and the changes
Speaker 1: in curriculum, and you know, if you're looking in Wisconsin
Speaker 1: at the threats to throw out a Supreme a Supreme
Speaker 1: Court justice that was duly elected before she even has
Speaker 1: the opportunity to hear a case. If you're looking at Texas,
Speaker 1: how does your organization decide when and where to hit
Speaker 1: the ground running.
Speaker 2: Absolutely well, first of all, I'm glad you do what
Speaker 2: you do, because I'm one of your listeners. I'm glad
Speaker 2: to do witha We need all types of professions and
Speaker 2: folks in the fight for democracy today, and the work
Speaker 2: that you do to amplify these issues is incredibly important,
Speaker 2: but lawyers also are having a moment. So while it
Speaker 2: does seem like this chaotic whack a mole, what we
Speaker 2: have learned in our work is that the attacks on
Speaker 2: democracy did not really start and they certainly did not
Speaker 2: end with Trump. But many of them are the brain
Speaker 2: children of extremist legal organizations that have for many years
Speaker 2: been seeking to roll back the progress that our country
Speaker 2: has made, seeking to try to roll back progress made
Speaker 2: through the law. You see this epitomized, of course in
Speaker 2: the Dobbs decision, but there are many other examples as well,
Speaker 2: and so at Democracy Forward we do a lot of
Speaker 2: work to understand what these extremist groups are doing and
Speaker 2: the patterns of their activity. So they will attack anything
Speaker 2: that seeks to amplify or provide voice to all the
Speaker 2: people in this country. This is a movement that wants
Speaker 2: a democracy for some and not for all. So when
Speaker 2: you see that pattern, you can see that it's no
Speaker 2: mistake that the same groups that have been behind seeking
Speaker 2: to perpetuate the Big Lie or seeking to undermine the
Speaker 2: ability of people to vote, they are the same groups
Speaker 2: and networks and funding networks that were behind trying to
Speaker 2: deprive people of reproductive health care and abortion care. They're
Speaker 2: the same groups that don't want truthful history taught in
Speaker 2: our schools, that are seeking to ban books and ideas
Speaker 2: because really the theme there is they're seeking to build
Speaker 2: a society in their own image for some and not
Speaker 2: for all. So once you understand that map and that
Speaker 2: pattern of behavior, it allows you to be more strategic
Speaker 2: and to understand where the fights are going to be
Speaker 2: and to be able to get prepared. And so that's
Speaker 2: really what we seek to do it democracy forward. We
Speaker 2: don't have it all figured out, but we do know
Speaker 2: where these patterns are and we know that there is
Speaker 2: a vast majority of the American people believe in the
Speaker 2: promise and potential in democracy, and we're seeing them use
Speaker 2: their power and platform, and we're really seeking to equip
Speaker 2: people in communities with legal tools to do so. I
Speaker 2: can give you some examples of that, but that's sort
Speaker 2: of how we break through the whack a mole is
Speaker 2: through really understanding that power playbook that these anti democratic
Speaker 2: extremists are operating from. They will actually tell you what
Speaker 2: they're going to do, and we need to believe people
Speaker 2: when they show you there, ye yeah, and we take
Speaker 2: at their word. Just like we took trumpet as a word,
Speaker 2: and we get prepared and go fight in court and
Speaker 2: in other aspects of the legal process.
Speaker 1: You know, I think that it's really important too that
Speaker 1: you refer to this as a movement, right, you refer
Speaker 1: to it as a movement, and that you are identifying
Speaker 1: where you are seeing the patterns, because the playbook is
Speaker 1: not new, right, They just have different tools than they
Speaker 1: were using in the twentieth century that they are now
Speaker 1: using in the twenty first century. But the playbook is
Speaker 1: not new, and so you know, I do want you
Speaker 1: to provide some examples, but things that I'm interested in,
Speaker 1: and I wonder if some of your examples are around
Speaker 1: this are with regard to the way that school boards
Speaker 1: have been taken over and have become schools which have
Speaker 1: always been on the front line for social justice and
Speaker 1: racial justice in this country since Brown versus the Board
Speaker 1: of Education and other fights that we have seen, you know,
Speaker 1: the prayer not being a part of school that was
Speaker 1: a legal battle. And so when you see their push
Speaker 1: to take over school boards, when you see the push
Speaker 1: to ban books and criminalize librarians, I want you to
Speaker 1: take this school's piece and tell us how you know
Speaker 1: your organization, Democracy Forward is fighting a back against this
Speaker 1: movement to basically ban critical thinking and indoctrinate our children
Speaker 1: with false ideals and expectations of America.
Speaker 2: Well, one is we admit that's what it is. It
Speaker 2: is a movement. That is what they want to do.
Speaker 2: They may say they don't want to ban books, and
Speaker 2: they're just trying to put in certain regulations or restrictions
Speaker 2: on ideas, but this is the movement that we've seen.
Speaker 2: This is what they're after, and so we approach it
Speaker 2: both in strategic ways and in very local ways. We've
Speaker 2: done a lot of work with teachers who are really
Speaker 2: bearing the brunt in many instances of these the censorship Agenda.
Speaker 2: Have represented teachers in a number of you know, a
Speaker 2: number of of of actions, including one in Florida which
Speaker 2: was not successful. I mean, we win some and we
Speaker 2: lose some. We do win a lot, but it's really
Speaker 2: important that even in the times where we're not able
Speaker 2: to win every time, that people are using their their
Speaker 2: voices to push back. If in Arkansas, we're representing a
Speaker 2: number of librarians alongside a coalition of booksellers and others
Speaker 2: to and have successfully blocked the States law that would
Speaker 2: criminally penalize librarians and then in local communities, which is
Speaker 2: what you're raising. These this hyper local effort that we
Speaker 2: see which we're equipping community groups and parents as well
Speaker 2: as teachers with tools to fight back. What we know
Speaker 2: is that this is a movement that does not represent
Speaker 2: the majority of Americans, the censorship movement. That is that
Speaker 2: they are seeking to make it look like that they're
Speaker 2: organic movements within communities across the country that are concerned
Speaker 2: about books and ideas. What it really is is a
Speaker 2: coalition of national groups that are trying to make headway
Speaker 2: in local communities that they target. And so a lot
Speaker 2: of our work is working with communities and people to
Speaker 2: request records, to request public information that has to be
Speaker 2: made public under the law, in order to figure out
Speaker 2: who is behind these efforts. Guess what, It's not an
Speaker 2: organic movement of concerned parents. It is national groups that
Speaker 2: are speaking that in by democracy. So we do a
Speaker 2: lot of that exposure work and then based on that
Speaker 2: there sometimes can be substantive legal challenges, like what we've
Speaker 2: done in Arkansas and like some others that we're working
Speaker 2: up in other states. So that is what we're doing.
Speaker 2: We also do a lot of education, which is making
Speaker 2: sure that people that are going about their everyday lives,
Speaker 2: folks that didn't go to law school, understand the legal
Speaker 2: tools that are available and that can be used. Because
Speaker 2: the law is for all of us, it's not just
Speaker 2: for some of us, and so we do a lot
Speaker 2: of work to make sure that whether it's folks on
Speaker 2: school boards or parents or teachers, understand the types of
Speaker 2: tools they have to fight back.
Speaker 1: You know, we have always used the legal system as
Speaker 1: the course and the path towards equity. It hasn't been
Speaker 1: through the legislative branches. It has been through the judicial system,
Speaker 1: legalizing rights that were only provided to some, and decade
Speaker 1: by decade, inch by inch, we've been able to acquire
Speaker 1: and fight for for other marginalized groups. What we saw, however,
Speaker 1: Sky during the Trump administration was this, I mean, all
Speaker 1: out assault on our judicial system at the hands of
Speaker 1: Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump to place as many extreme
Speaker 1: as judges right across the country in lifetime appointments as
Speaker 1: they possibly could. Can you talk to us about that
Speaker 1: tactic that has been very successful on the right and
Speaker 1: what your expectations are as. We really reckon with the
Speaker 1: fact that there was not any pushback to the placements
Speaker 1: of these judges, and that the Republican Party has always
Speaker 1: known and has been creating this strategy for the last
Speaker 1: forty years to stop progress dead in its track.
Speaker 2: Well, I think, and we say a lot of democracy
Speaker 2: forward that right now the courts are a frontline in
Speaker 2: the battle for democracy, not just a last resort. They've
Speaker 2: often finished that the place that you go to redress
Speaker 2: your grievances. Yeah, this passes the Voting Rights Act, and
Speaker 2: states don't want to comply, and so where do you go?
Speaker 2: You go to court in order to enforce your rights.
Speaker 2: That's unfortunately, you know, we're seeing that there is a
Speaker 2: legal movement to seek to make the courts not a
Speaker 2: place where people can go and expect that type of
Speaker 2: protection of their rights. So we say that the courts
Speaker 2: are both a front line and a last resort. We
Speaker 2: see in our work every day where judges, including judges
Speaker 2: appointed from all different perspectives, will side on the on
Speaker 2: the side of the Constitution, on the side of the
Speaker 2: rights of people. And we also see an unfortunate trend,
Speaker 2: including at the highest court, where in many cases that
Speaker 2: is not the case because of the composition of the
Speaker 2: judicial branch right now. It's important to remember that President
Speaker 2: Biden has now appointed more judges than President Trump appointed,
Speaker 2: and so the judicial you know, composition is changing. Uh,
Speaker 2: but there is still a real need for for uh,
Speaker 2: the law to really act for all people. And so
Speaker 2: let me let me say what we do in response
Speaker 2: to that. Because we're a group that's what uses the
Speaker 2: law as a tool, and we have a really difficult landscape. So,
Speaker 2: first of all, because we recognize that the courts are
Speaker 2: a front line, we know we have to be there
Speaker 2: whether we like them or not. You know, I believe
Speaker 2: in courts. I believe that it's important to have a
Speaker 2: court system that's protecting the rights of all, that's making
Speaker 2: sure that rights are protected. But regardless of whether you're
Speaker 2: disillusioned with the courts or you know, upset with them
Speaker 2: or whatever, you've got to be there to make your
Speaker 2: voice heard, because that is where this right wing movement
Speaker 2: is seeking to go. Every time something wins in the
Speaker 2: ballot box, whether it is a minimum wage law or
Speaker 2: a reproductive justice law at the state level, you see
Speaker 2: an effort to roll it back in the courts. Because
Speaker 2: of these right wing groups going to court, And so
Speaker 2: what we try to do is make sure that people
Speaker 2: on the democracy side of history, people that believe that
Speaker 2: our next, our best days can be in front of us,
Speaker 2: that believe in the promise of democracy to all have
Speaker 2: tools to fight back, that they're filing briefs in cases
Speaker 2: that they're weighing in at the court, that they're making
Speaker 2: sure that they are represented in that third branch of government,
Speaker 2: just like they're supposed to be represented in the other
Speaker 2: two branches of government. So that's kind of how we
Speaker 2: have dealt with that at Democracy forward, as well as
Speaker 2: continuing to use the law and continuing to use the
Speaker 2: courts as a tool to disrupt unlawful and bad activity.
Speaker 2: And we see in our work every day that change
Speaker 2: can still be made through the courts, but we also
Speaker 2: see in our work every day that it really takes
Speaker 2: all tools available, and the law is not the only tool,
Speaker 2: but is one of so many tools that people need
Speaker 2: to be using in this time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, and I think that that is critical
Speaker 1: that people understand that this is not a time when
Speaker 1: we need to just be looking at one mechanism to
Speaker 1: hold on to democracy. That we need to be using
Speaker 1: every single strategy, every single tactic, every single tool within
Speaker 1: our toolbox, because we are, as was stated in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty one, a backsliding democracy. Sky the one of the
Speaker 1: last questions that I have for you, you know, in
Speaker 1: that right that report that had come out I believe
Speaker 1: it was twenty twenty one or twenty twenty two that
Speaker 1: said that for the first time ever, that America was
Speaker 1: a backsliding democracy. Do you think that people, truly the
Speaker 1: citizens of this country recognize what that means and that
Speaker 1: this election, this time, this moment is one of the
Speaker 1: most consequential that we have ever faced in the two
Speaker 1: hundred and forty plus years of this country's existence.
Speaker 2: Well, we have to hope that they do, and we're
Speaker 2: going to do everything we can. I know, You're going
Speaker 2: to do everything we can to make sure that people understand.
Speaker 2: One of the main tools that this anti democratic movement
Speaker 2: uses is they try to convince people that the game
Speaker 2: is over, the deck is already done, that there's nothing
Speaker 2: that you can do to make change. That's what they
Speaker 2: want people to believe. Because they want folks to give up,
Speaker 2: to not vote, to think that progress can't happen. They
Speaker 2: want you to abandon the court, to not try to
Speaker 2: go make your case in court anymore, because they want
Speaker 2: to say, well, you know, we've got this, We've already
Speaker 2: won this fight. And so one of the major things
Speaker 2: that we all need to be doing is to remind
Speaker 2: each other and to remind ourselves the ability that we
Speaker 2: have as people in this country to push back and
Speaker 2: to fight for that future. We've seen that in some
Speaker 2: recent elections where folks have you know, issues have won
Speaker 2: on the ballot and people have really voted out their
Speaker 2: principles and their belief in democracy. And so we have
Speaker 2: to hope that is what will happen in twenty twenty
Speaker 2: four and in all the elections to come, and to
Speaker 2: work really for that.
Speaker 1: Amazing and I can't thank you enough for the work
Speaker 1: that you and your organization are doing. It is so
Speaker 1: incredibly vital. Please tell you know the listeners of OKF
Speaker 1: who are always asking and looking for opportunities to get involved,
Speaker 1: feel less hopeless and feel like they are part of
Speaker 1: the solution on how they can get involved.
Speaker 2: Great. Well, the first thing is please go on to
Speaker 2: whatever social media platform you're on and get on the
Speaker 2: internet and follow us. We're at Democracyforward dot org. We're
Speaker 2: on all the platforms follow our work because we actually
Speaker 2: you'll see what we're doing. And a lot of our
Speaker 2: work is in the communities that your listeners are in
Speaker 2: and we love it. We encourage you to reach out.
Speaker 2: We have email you know, on our website, lots of
Speaker 2: ways to get in touch through dms and others. Please
Speaker 2: reach out. We work with folks all over the country
Speaker 2: and want to have you involved in our work.
Speaker 1: Scott, thank you so much for making the time to
Speaker 1: join Woke f and thank you so much for the
Speaker 1: work that you do, and I hope that you will
Speaker 1: come back on and keep us up to date on
Speaker 1: the cases that you are weighing in on. We really
Speaker 1: appreciate you.
Speaker 2: Thanks so much.
Speaker 1: That is it for me today on Woke af as always.
Speaker 1: Power to the people and to all the people. Power,
Speaker 1: get woke and stay woke as fuck.