WEBVTT - Heavyweight Presents: The Messenger 0:00:15.476 --> 0:00:15.956 Pushkin. 0:00:20.676 --> 0:00:22.356 I'm excited to share an episode from one of my 0:00:22.396 --> 0:00:26.156 longtime favorite podcasts, Heavyweight, a new addition to the Pushkin 0:00:26.196 --> 0:00:30.516 slative shows. Heavyweight is hosted by Jonathan Goldstein and creates 0:00:30.516 --> 0:00:34.316 space for difficult conversations and resolving long standing regrets and 0:00:34.396 --> 0:00:38.996 unanswered questions, balancing humor and empathy. Host Jonathan Goldstein that 0:00:39.036 --> 0:00:42.356 helps his subjects pinpoint the moment things went wrong and 0:00:42.436 --> 0:00:45.156 joins them on a quest to make them right. The 0:00:45.196 --> 0:00:48.396 episode was sharing today features Michael, who, as a high 0:00:48.396 --> 0:00:51.276 school senior, got his lucky break the chance to star 0:00:51.356 --> 0:00:54.516 in a big budget movie shooting Raped. The premiere date 0:00:54.556 --> 0:00:56.956 was set, and then he found out that his success 0:00:57.076 --> 0:01:00.316 was all based on a lie. Find Heavyweight wherever you 0:01:00.356 --> 0:01:02.556 get your podcasts. 0:01:05.156 --> 0:01:08.196 Hid Happy birthday to me. 0:01:09.596 --> 0:01:11.276 It was your birthday last week, wasn't it. 0:01:11.276 --> 0:01:15.916 It's kind of why I was phoning I. 0:01:15.916 --> 0:01:16.796 I'm sorry, buddy. 0:01:17.036 --> 0:01:18.876 It lose to something. When you have to call a 0:01:18.916 --> 0:01:21.956 week later to receive to get your own your own 0:01:21.996 --> 0:01:24.276 birthday wish from someone you know, it hurts. 0:01:24.596 --> 0:01:27.836 Okay, honestly, I feel like your birthday is that important 0:01:27.836 --> 0:01:27.996 to you? 0:01:28.036 --> 0:01:28.476 Am I wrong? 0:01:29.076 --> 0:01:31.036 Well, it's not as important to me. As the first 0:01:31.156 --> 0:01:37.036 night of Kranuka and the second night, not the third night. 0:01:37.596 --> 0:01:38.716 I hate the third night. 0:01:39.636 --> 0:01:40.036 You know what. 0:01:40.196 --> 0:01:42.996 As a birthday present to myself, I'm going to hang 0:01:43.076 --> 0:01:55.636 up on you. Happy birthday to me. Indeed from Pushkin Industries, 0:01:56.116 --> 0:02:02.156 I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is Heavyweight today's episode The 0:02:02.236 --> 0:02:19.316 Messenger right after the Break. As a kid growing up 0:02:19.316 --> 0:02:23.916 in Cleveland, Michael loved acting. The only problem I wasn't 0:02:24.036 --> 0:02:28.676 very good. In fact, he stank in every summer camp show. 0:02:28.796 --> 0:02:31.716 He was placed in the back row in a children's 0:02:31.756 --> 0:02:35.596 production of The Hobbit the Musical. Backstage, a kid dressed 0:02:35.636 --> 0:02:38.836 as a dwarf told Michael, my mom says, you're singing 0:02:38.956 --> 0:02:42.756 is awful. But it didn't stop Michael. He nursed his 0:02:42.836 --> 0:02:46.036 acting bug all the way through senior year, when one 0:02:46.116 --> 0:02:49.236 day he heard about a movie being filmed in Cleveland 0:02:49.716 --> 0:02:52.916 and the director needed lots of teens to be extras. 0:02:53.796 --> 0:02:56.756 Straight after school, Michael made his way to the auditions. 0:02:57.276 --> 0:02:59.436 He was shown into a room with the director and 0:02:59.516 --> 0:03:02.396 some of the crew. They gave him a script and 0:03:02.436 --> 0:03:03.716 he started acting. 0:03:04.076 --> 0:03:08.476 And their eyes lit up and I was asked to 0:03:08.516 --> 0:03:12.236 keep reading, And so we did the scene again. We 0:03:12.276 --> 0:03:13.236 did it again. 0:03:13.516 --> 0:03:17.236 And again and again, and all the while Michael was 0:03:17.276 --> 0:03:19.236 overcome by a curious feeling. 0:03:19.676 --> 0:03:20.636 I was doing a good job. 0:03:20.916 --> 0:03:24.436 Had you ever experienced this before, been in an audition 0:03:24.556 --> 0:03:26.316 where people were responding this way? 0:03:27.636 --> 0:03:28.236 No? 0:03:28.236 --> 0:03:28.396 No. 0:03:29.356 --> 0:03:32.676 I was usually in auditions where they're like, we can 0:03:32.756 --> 0:03:35.116 make him a tree. 0:03:38.796 --> 0:03:41.396 At the end of the audition, the director told Michael 0:03:41.476 --> 0:03:44.236 that he was not going to be an extra. Michael 0:03:44.556 --> 0:03:46.716 was going to be the star of the whole movie. 0:03:47.636 --> 0:03:49.356 Why was he going to be the star of the 0:03:49.356 --> 0:03:53.076 whole movie? Was it his brando esque brooding? Is shia 0:03:53.116 --> 0:03:54.516 la buffi in intensity? 0:03:55.156 --> 0:04:00.596 They showed me the storyboard and I looked exactly like 0:04:00.916 --> 0:04:04.676 the kid in the drawings of the storyboard. That's the 0:04:04.756 --> 0:04:06.996 reason I got it. They were just like, you look 0:04:07.076 --> 0:04:07.956 like the kid we drew. 0:04:09.196 --> 0:04:12.596 The film was called The Messenger, based on a true story, 0:04:13.236 --> 0:04:15.956 and the true story it was based on was a 0:04:15.956 --> 0:04:19.716 little known World War II anecdote about a teenager named 0:04:19.756 --> 0:04:24.996 Thomas E. Jones. Jones was a telegram messenger in Washington, DC. 0:04:26.036 --> 0:04:29.316 On August fourteenth, nineteen forty five. He was sent to 0:04:29.396 --> 0:04:33.916 deliver the telegram that announced Japan's unconditional surrender to the Allies, 0:04:34.556 --> 0:04:37.236 but on the way to deliver the message, he got 0:04:37.236 --> 0:04:40.996 pulled over for an illegal U turn, and thus the 0:04:41.076 --> 0:04:44.516 end of World War Two was delayed by ten minutes. 0:04:45.556 --> 0:04:48.436 Michael played the role of Thomas as he navigated that 0:04:48.516 --> 0:04:49.196 fateful day. 0:04:49.796 --> 0:04:52.676 I show up to set and I just was immediately 0:04:52.996 --> 0:04:55.676 involved in the magic of film, and they had to 0:04:55.996 --> 0:04:58.796 fake the daylight by putting lights outside the window. And 0:04:59.156 --> 0:05:02.116 I remember being like, Oh, you're not just like capturing 0:05:02.156 --> 0:05:04.436 a moment, You're creating a moment. 0:05:05.276 --> 0:05:08.596 And the custodian of this exciting new world. The director 0:05:08.636 --> 0:05:11.076 of the movie was a twenty five year old wonder 0:05:11.156 --> 0:05:16.676 kid named Quincy. Quincy took to Michael immediately. Throughout the production, 0:05:16.916 --> 0:05:19.156 he check in with Michael on the phone and take 0:05:19.236 --> 0:05:22.316 him out for wings. Michael looked up to Quincy. 0:05:22.396 --> 0:05:26.796 You meet someone who was orchestrating this giant production, and 0:05:26.836 --> 0:05:30.156 then for him to take time talk to me, I 0:05:30.156 --> 0:05:30.956 felt part of. 0:05:31.836 --> 0:05:35.636 Even after filming wrapped, Quincy stayed in touch, calling Michael 0:05:35.676 --> 0:05:37.556 with updates about the movie's release. 0:05:38.156 --> 0:05:41.796 We were going to premiere at the Philadelphia Film Festival. 0:05:42.316 --> 0:05:45.516 I learned that it was a big production, one hundred 0:05:45.556 --> 0:05:47.876 thousand dollars short film, which is a lot of money 0:05:48.036 --> 0:05:51.836 for a short movie. The executive producer was this man 0:05:51.916 --> 0:05:54.956 named Pat croche Pad pad. 0:05:55.396 --> 0:05:58.716 Pad if you don't know the name. Pat Crochey was 0:05:58.756 --> 0:06:01.996 a media presence, an entrepreneur famous in the world of 0:06:02.036 --> 0:06:05.196 sports because he owned the Philadelphia seventy six ers in 0:06:05.236 --> 0:06:10.796 the late nineties. He was a motivational speaker. 0:06:10.996 --> 0:06:13.156 Get up, I slap my palms together, It's going to 0:06:13.236 --> 0:06:13.556 be a. 0:06:13.596 --> 0:06:16.476 Great day, a noted pirate enthusiast. 0:06:16.596 --> 0:06:19.476 People ask me if I'm a pirate, and I say yes, 0:06:19.996 --> 0:06:21.676 but three hundred years too late. 0:06:21.956 --> 0:06:25.316 And the kind of beloved pre me too. Macho man 0:06:25.436 --> 0:06:28.076 would show up unannounced on the set of the local 0:06:28.156 --> 0:06:31.316 news just to scoop the anchor woman up into his arms. 0:06:31.556 --> 0:06:35.996 Accident on the jersey term, I could. 0:06:36.236 --> 0:06:39.676 My god, because when you have that much jouas de viva, 0:06:40.116 --> 0:06:42.236 what choice do you have? You know, whenever Pat comes 0:06:42.236 --> 0:06:47.956 in the room, you never know what's gonna happens, because 0:06:48.196 --> 0:06:50.756 Pat Crochey, because he's involved. 0:06:51.436 --> 0:06:53.716 The movie gets a lot of press. 0:06:53.996 --> 0:06:56.916 For a short film by an unknown director. The Messenger 0:06:56.956 --> 0:07:00.516 received an unheard of amount of press. ESPN carried a 0:07:00.556 --> 0:07:03.236 story with footage of Michael on set, and there was 0:07:03.276 --> 0:07:05.196 a huge write up in USA. Today. 0:07:05.756 --> 0:07:07.956 My dad was flying that day, you know, he was 0:07:07.996 --> 0:07:10.676 in an airport. He picks up the US head Today, 0:07:10.996 --> 0:07:13.876 he flips it open and sees a two page spread 0:07:13.996 --> 0:07:17.516 with my picture on it. So the family's excitement, the 0:07:17.516 --> 0:07:19.876 friend's excitement, everyone starts to just be like, this is 0:07:19.916 --> 0:07:20.956 a very big deal. 0:07:21.636 --> 0:07:24.356 Michael was planning on college in the fall, but as 0:07:24.396 --> 0:07:27.916 anticipation around the movie grew, he started to reconsider. 0:07:31.516 --> 0:07:34.516 Leading up to the Philadelphia Film Festival, talking to Quincy, 0:07:34.716 --> 0:07:38.276 He's like, Tom Hanks wants to meet with you. This 0:07:38.996 --> 0:07:41.716 is a real chance, this is a real opportunity. This 0:07:41.796 --> 0:07:45.516 is bigger than I imagined. I was like, maybe maybe 0:07:45.516 --> 0:07:47.396 I try and pursue acting. 0:07:48.276 --> 0:07:51.516 Maybe Michael had been wrong all these years, Maybe everyone 0:07:51.596 --> 0:07:54.876 had been Maybe he really was a good actor and 0:07:54.916 --> 0:08:01.236 it took Quincy to discover it. Michael couldn't wait to 0:08:01.316 --> 0:08:04.236 walk the red carpet, see himself on the big screen, 0:08:04.596 --> 0:08:07.396 and enjoy a virgin appleteini with Tom Hanks. 0:08:07.876 --> 0:08:10.716 Did your parents come with you to the premiere? Well, 0:08:11.276 --> 0:08:15.196 we didn't make it to the premiere. The movie was canceled. 0:08:20.156 --> 0:08:25.316 So the week before the Philadelphia Film Festival premiere. I 0:08:25.356 --> 0:08:31.156 got a phone call from Quincy and he was clearly crying, 0:08:31.996 --> 0:08:35.796 and he told me that the movie wasn't going to 0:08:35.836 --> 0:08:40.116 come out and nobody was going to see it because 0:08:40.916 --> 0:08:46.316 it turns out that Quincy had lied and had told 0:08:46.316 --> 0:08:47.836 a really big lie. 0:08:48.036 --> 0:08:50.756 The Liemichael's referring to had nothing to do with the 0:08:50.836 --> 0:08:55.076 historical anecdote itself. That part was true, but over the 0:08:55.156 --> 0:08:58.716 end credits, Quincy played footage of the actual present day 0:08:58.756 --> 0:09:02.996 Thomas E Jones being interviewed on his deathbed. The only 0:09:03.076 --> 0:09:10.116 problem that guy was an actor. It seems Quincy had 0:09:10.156 --> 0:09:12.996 just found a random old man, slipped him into a gown, 0:09:13.276 --> 0:09:16.556 strapped him into a hospital bed, and christened him Thomas 0:09:16.556 --> 0:09:20.876 E Jones. But there was one thing Quincy wasn't counting on. 0:09:21.716 --> 0:09:22.996 Because the movie. 0:09:22.836 --> 0:09:28.996 Had received so much attention, Thomas E Jones's real family found. 0:09:28.756 --> 0:09:32.916 Out, and Thomas E Jones's real family wasn't happy, because, 0:09:32.956 --> 0:09:35.596 as it turned out, the real Thomas E Jones was 0:09:35.756 --> 0:09:40.436 very much alive, breathing, eating, sleeping, and not on a 0:09:40.476 --> 0:09:43.756 deathbed but just a regular old bed bed, and so 0:09:43.876 --> 0:09:45.996 Pat Crochey decided to pull the movie. 0:09:46.676 --> 0:09:50.356 I mean, it was crushing disappointment. I had the ticket 0:09:50.396 --> 0:09:52.796 to go, I had the suit, I had all the 0:09:52.836 --> 0:09:56.636 expectation I had in my brain, everything that could be 0:09:56.916 --> 0:10:01.076 possible after and it's all gone, it's all it vanishes. 0:10:01.636 --> 0:10:04.956 And then it's a wave of embarrassment because I have 0:10:05.036 --> 0:10:06.956 to tell everybody. 0:10:07.076 --> 0:10:10.396 Michael had to go back to his friend's, his grandmother 0:10:10.436 --> 0:10:13.636 who had been clipping every article about the movie, and say, 0:10:14.196 --> 0:10:16.516 remember how I was going to be a big movie star. 0:10:17.116 --> 0:10:19.516 It was all a fraud. And the guy who thought 0:10:19.516 --> 0:10:21.836 I had talent also a fraud. 0:10:22.396 --> 0:10:24.756 And I never talked to Quincy again. 0:10:25.956 --> 0:10:29.316 Michael abandoned his dream of becoming an actor, but his 0:10:29.436 --> 0:10:32.476 time on The Messengers still had its impact. It allowed 0:10:32.516 --> 0:10:34.796 him to realize how much he loved being on a set, 0:10:35.156 --> 0:10:38.076 loved the magic of creating a whole world from thin air, 0:10:38.636 --> 0:10:41.636 and that pushed him towards a career in TV, writing 0:10:41.636 --> 0:10:46.836 for shows on Disney and Nickelodeon. Meanwhile, Quincy's IMDb credits 0:10:46.996 --> 0:10:47.916 have grown sparse. 0:10:48.316 --> 0:10:50.996 I always wonder what happened to Quincy, because I looked 0:10:51.076 --> 0:10:52.876 up to him. There was part of me that wanted 0:10:52.916 --> 0:10:57.596 to tell him that I've succeeded, that I've pursued movies 0:10:57.636 --> 0:10:58.676 because of him. 0:10:58.916 --> 0:11:02.156 But along with that, Michael has a lingering question for Quincy. 0:11:02.796 --> 0:11:06.636 I never understood why you would take such a big 0:11:06.756 --> 0:11:10.156 risk like that to make such a big line. It's 0:11:10.196 --> 0:11:12.196 like you've set up a film crew to film this 0:11:12.276 --> 0:11:14.436 guy on his deathbed and it wasn't like it just 0:11:14.476 --> 0:11:16.636 seems like a bad plan. 0:11:17.676 --> 0:11:20.396 As Michael has climbed the ranks of show business, this 0:11:20.476 --> 0:11:24.596 question has only gained in poignance. Why risk your reputation, 0:11:25.316 --> 0:11:27.276 especially when the story was good enough. 0:11:27.076 --> 0:11:27.636 As it was? 0:11:29.116 --> 0:11:33.716 Why did you lie? After the break searching for Quincy 0:11:34.036 --> 0:11:38.876 to become the messengers messenger? But first the best messages 0:11:38.916 --> 0:11:44.156 of all promotional messages from our cherished sponsors. We really 0:11:44.196 --> 0:11:47.276 do love you, guys ill two gross. 0:11:47.356 --> 0:11:50.116 It's a little gross, eh. 0:11:50.196 --> 0:12:12.876 Keep it in. Why did Quincy lie? The more I 0:12:12.916 --> 0:12:15.916 think about it, the less sense it all makes. Why 0:12:15.996 --> 0:12:18.116 go to the trouble of hiring an old man and 0:12:18.156 --> 0:12:21.436 building a hospital set? Why not just use the real 0:12:21.516 --> 0:12:21.956 Thomas E. 0:12:22.076 --> 0:12:22.476 Jones? 0:12:26.036 --> 0:12:29.916 Hello, Oh Hello, my name is Jonathan Golds. I've so 0:12:29.956 --> 0:12:32.796 far been unable to contact Quincy, so I reach out 0:12:32.796 --> 0:12:34.876 to someone else who might have the answer. I was 0:12:34.916 --> 0:12:36.116 looking for a Thomas E. 0:12:36.356 --> 0:12:36.796 Jones. 0:12:37.796 --> 0:12:38.676 He's deceased. 0:12:39.316 --> 0:12:41.556 Oh, I'm very sorry. 0:12:41.836 --> 0:12:46.676 Yes, I'm his widow. When he died, we would have 0:12:46.756 --> 0:12:49.156 been married almost seventy years. 0:12:49.836 --> 0:12:53.916 Thomas's widow, Nancy, is eighty nine years old. She says 0:12:53.956 --> 0:12:56.996 she doesn't know why Quincy didn't just go to Thomas himself, 0:12:57.556 --> 0:12:59.516 But we get to talking and she tells me the 0:12:59.556 --> 0:13:02.556 story of how she first met Thomas. It was through 0:13:02.596 --> 0:13:05.916 his work as a messenger. It turns out Nancy's father 0:13:06.076 --> 0:13:09.796 was Thomas's boss at the telegram office. Tells me how 0:13:09.836 --> 0:13:13.276 in nineteen forty five, there was a dedicated telegraph machine 0:13:13.396 --> 0:13:17.956 standing by for the sole purpose of awaiting the Japanese surrender. 0:13:17.996 --> 0:13:22.996 And when that machine started ticket my father, he handed 0:13:23.036 --> 0:13:26.436 his message first to my husband, who was a bicycle 0:13:26.476 --> 0:13:28.516 messenger at sixteen years of age. 0:13:29.116 --> 0:13:32.156 Since the bike was too slow for such an important message, 0:13:32.316 --> 0:13:36.316 a coworker agreed to drive Thomas in his car. Unfortunately, 0:13:36.556 --> 0:13:39.636 he set out in the wrong direction, and thus the 0:13:39.676 --> 0:13:43.596 most famous U turn in American history, or at least 0:13:43.636 --> 0:13:46.036 the only one I've ever heard of, and I've read 0:13:46.076 --> 0:13:49.396 Mike Howard Zinn. The U turn got Thomas and his 0:13:49.476 --> 0:13:51.076 driver pulled over by a cop. 0:13:51.476 --> 0:13:53.916 Of course, they were saying, we've got the Japanese piece 0:13:53.956 --> 0:13:56.716 a render message here. Yeah, I've heard a lot of stories, 0:13:56.756 --> 0:13:59.836 but the police realized it was the truth. They just 0:13:59.916 --> 0:14:00.796 pore up the ticket. 0:14:01.316 --> 0:14:04.956 Wow, what a story is. Yeah, and it's a pretty 0:14:04.956 --> 0:14:08.516 different story than the one in the Messenger. Not only 0:14:08.596 --> 0:14:11.316 were the jones Is angry about the fake Thomas, but 0:14:11.356 --> 0:14:14.596 they were also angry about what they considered the fake story. 0:14:15.196 --> 0:14:18.476 In Quincy's version of events, Thomas is in no hurry 0:14:18.556 --> 0:14:21.636 to deliver the message. He makes a casual pit stop 0:14:21.676 --> 0:14:24.356 at a diner where he hits on the waitress and 0:14:24.556 --> 0:14:28.356 enjoys a large breakfast of pancakes, all while the war 0:14:28.516 --> 0:14:31.716 rages on. The Jones Is read about that scene in 0:14:31.756 --> 0:14:35.196 the media coverage of Quincy's movie, newspaper write ups with 0:14:35.276 --> 0:14:39.116 headlines like boys pancake breakfast delayed the end of World 0:14:39.196 --> 0:14:41.876 War Two. 0:14:42.956 --> 0:14:46.196 Well, you know, my kids were just serious about that. 0:14:46.996 --> 0:14:50.596 Sports talking about kids, We're talking about people now sixty 0:14:50.676 --> 0:14:51.236 years old. 0:14:52.436 --> 0:14:54.476 We were outraged. The kids were outraged. 0:14:55.316 --> 0:14:58.916 This is Victoria Jones. She's one of Thomas and Nancy's 0:14:58.956 --> 0:15:02.356 six children, all of whom, when it came to the Messenger, 0:15:02.756 --> 0:15:04.116 were in agreement. 0:15:03.876 --> 0:15:06.476 Which was unusual for the six of us. 0:15:07.236 --> 0:15:10.876 This is Thomas's son, Mike. He says that the only 0:15:10.916 --> 0:15:14.476 one inclined to let the whole thing go was Thomas himself. 0:15:14.836 --> 0:15:17.196 That was kind of my dad's attitude, like, oh, don't 0:15:17.196 --> 0:15:19.476 make a big deal, don't get this person in trouble. 0:15:19.676 --> 0:15:22.716 We said, no, this is altering history. 0:15:22.956 --> 0:15:25.156 It just kind of portrayed him like as the slacker, 0:15:25.236 --> 0:15:26.636 you know, like, oh, the heck with that, I'm going 0:15:26.716 --> 0:15:28.876 to go and flirt and eat pancakes. 0:15:33.796 --> 0:15:37.076 Victoria says that although Quincy never reached out to her father, 0:15:37.596 --> 0:15:38.636 he easily could have. 0:15:39.276 --> 0:15:41.396 Just like you found my mother by getting a few 0:15:41.396 --> 0:15:45.036 phone calls, Quincy could have found my father and he 0:15:45.116 --> 0:15:45.796 never tried. 0:15:46.516 --> 0:15:49.676 When she found out about the movie, Victoria messaged Quincy 0:15:49.796 --> 0:15:53.356 several times, but she says he grew defensive and eventually 0:15:53.436 --> 0:15:54.276 stopped answering. 0:15:54.756 --> 0:15:57.756 And then when my father died, I sent him a 0:15:57.756 --> 0:16:00.476 message and said my father is now deceased. 0:16:01.516 --> 0:16:03.636 Oh, and he did not respond to that. 0:16:04.476 --> 0:16:07.476 No, I should go back and look. He might have 0:16:07.556 --> 0:16:08.636 said I'm sorry. 0:16:08.396 --> 0:16:11.436 And that was it. I tell the Joneses the story 0:16:11.476 --> 0:16:14.396 about Michael and how I'm trying to reach Quincy myself. 0:16:14.756 --> 0:16:15.676 Good luck with that one. 0:16:15.876 --> 0:16:19.396 I'm sure he'll say this better left of dead story 0:16:19.596 --> 0:16:19.996 out too. 0:16:27.156 --> 0:16:30.276 It turns out Nancy Jones is right. When I finally 0:16:30.316 --> 0:16:33.996 get through to Quincy via email, his response is emphatic. 0:16:34.596 --> 0:16:38.276 I'm not interested in talking about that project anymore, he writes, 0:16:39.036 --> 0:16:47.996 And that's the last I hear from Quincy. What happens 0:16:48.036 --> 0:16:52.356 next is years go by, unrelated to my failure to 0:16:52.356 --> 0:16:56.356 speak with Quincy. But you never know. Heavyweight is canceled 0:16:56.436 --> 0:16:59.436 and I lose my job. And while the story never 0:16:59.636 --> 0:17:03.476 entirely leaves my mind, without an ergonomic office chair and 0:17:03.556 --> 0:17:06.396 a long distance phone plan, there's not much I could 0:17:06.396 --> 0:17:09.556 do about it. And then one day, while trying to 0:17:09.556 --> 0:17:12.636 decide on a fun font for my resume, I receive 0:17:12.716 --> 0:17:16.076 a message from Michael. He says he has an important 0:17:16.236 --> 0:17:20.116 update to share. Hey Jonathan, Hey Michael, how are you good? 0:17:20.196 --> 0:17:20.836 How are you doing? 0:17:21.356 --> 0:17:24.196 It's been almost three years since Michael and I have spoken. 0:17:24.716 --> 0:17:25.276 You have a son. 0:17:25.356 --> 0:17:27.156 Now I've got a wife, I've got a son. 0:17:28.556 --> 0:17:32.076 The whole family is currently in New York, where Michael's wife, Katie, 0:17:32.116 --> 0:17:35.356 is producing a movie. It turns out that Katie's movie 0:17:35.396 --> 0:17:37.076 is the reason for Michael's update. 0:17:37.276 --> 0:17:39.836 An associate producer on the movie, his name's Dan. 0:17:40.476 --> 0:17:43.516 Michael explains that while out for dinner with Dan, they 0:17:43.556 --> 0:17:46.876 started talking about the industry, by which I mean the 0:17:46.956 --> 0:17:50.516 show business industry. And one of the things people in 0:17:50.556 --> 0:17:53.996 the industry enjoy chatting about most is how they got 0:17:53.996 --> 0:17:57.236 into the industry industry. So Michael told Dan the story 0:17:57.276 --> 0:18:01.116 of the Messenger, about the director Quincy, about the producer 0:18:01.356 --> 0:18:02.556 Pat Crochy. 0:18:02.476 --> 0:18:08.596 And Dan is from Philly. Dan's parents are family friends 0:18:08.836 --> 0:18:09.796 with the Crochees. 0:18:10.476 --> 0:18:16.316 You're kidding. Show biz connections in this life, there's not 0:18:16.436 --> 0:18:19.756 a thing that doesn't come down to show biz connections. 0:18:20.276 --> 0:18:23.116 It's not what you know, when you know, where you 0:18:23.236 --> 0:18:25.956 know it, or why you know it, but whom you know. 0:18:27.076 --> 0:18:30.116 Pat Crochy was the executive producer on the movie, the 0:18:30.156 --> 0:18:33.156 one who ultimately shut it all down. So with Quincy 0:18:33.236 --> 0:18:36.356 unwilling to talk, he's our best shot at figuring out 0:18:36.396 --> 0:18:39.556 why Quincy had lied. At some point, Pat had to 0:18:39.556 --> 0:18:45.396 have demanded an explanation from Quincy. Dan agrees to talk 0:18:45.436 --> 0:18:47.916 to his mom, who agrees to talk to Pat's daughter, 0:18:48.196 --> 0:18:51.116 who agrees to talk with Pat, who then agrees to 0:18:51.196 --> 0:18:57.476 talk with me. Mister Crochy, call me Pat. This is Pat, Pat, 0:18:57.796 --> 0:18:59.276 Pat Crochy. 0:18:59.796 --> 0:19:02.196 One thing I like to say about your heavyweight podcast 0:19:02.316 --> 0:19:07.196 is that it always inculcates a high vibrational frequency. 0:19:07.236 --> 0:19:10.716 Can you say more about the high frequent see well. 0:19:10.476 --> 0:19:13.516 In the realm of form, if we're going to transcend form. 0:19:13.676 --> 0:19:16.356 Pat Crochy has a white goatee that ends in a 0:19:16.396 --> 0:19:19.876 point at his chest. He's in the Zenden, a large 0:19:19.996 --> 0:19:23.076 room above the barn on his fifty three acre estate. 0:19:23.676 --> 0:19:27.196 His walls are covered in Chinese and Tibetan calligraphy. He 0:19:27.276 --> 0:19:30.676 says that these days he seldom makes any media appearances. 0:19:31.116 --> 0:19:32.916 Is there any reason for that? 0:19:33.836 --> 0:19:37.316 Ah, it's a great question, you interviewer. You well. Ten 0:19:37.396 --> 0:19:40.916 years ago something happened. My mind cracked. 0:19:41.756 --> 0:19:44.036 Pat's mind cracked in a meeting for one of his 0:19:44.116 --> 0:19:48.676 restaurants he owned several, among them the Rum Barrel, which 0:19:48.756 --> 0:19:49.676 is pirate themed. 0:19:50.116 --> 0:19:53.036 And I'm sitting there think it to myself, what the 0:19:53.036 --> 0:19:55.716 hell am I doing here? I don't really give a 0:19:55.756 --> 0:19:59.556 shit about the next great grouper sandwich. This is just more. 0:19:59.916 --> 0:20:04.196 I always was seeking more, another win, another standing ovation, 0:20:04.356 --> 0:20:09.516 another best seller, another another more more. It there was 0:20:09.636 --> 0:20:12.516 never enough, never what. 0:20:12.556 --> 0:20:15.396 Pat realized was that in spite of all his successes, 0:20:15.756 --> 0:20:18.516 he wasn't really happy, and so he tried to change 0:20:18.556 --> 0:20:21.436 his way of thinking, but it was a slow process. 0:20:21.796 --> 0:20:25.276 The ego in me was, if I can change my mind, 0:20:25.516 --> 0:20:28.156 that'd be another great bestseller, and I would go back 0:20:28.156 --> 0:20:30.996 on the speaking gain. It was all ego, all commercial, 0:20:31.156 --> 0:20:32.516 but that's how Grace hooked me. 0:20:38.716 --> 0:20:42.996 Everything that unfolds is perfect. I have this adage the 0:20:43.036 --> 0:20:47.076 past has served his purpose perfectly, but most people are 0:20:47.196 --> 0:20:49.636 cherry pickers. Well, I wish that would have changed, or 0:20:49.676 --> 0:20:54.956 I wish this or no. The purpose of the past, Jonathan, 0:20:55.156 --> 0:20:58.596 There's only one purpose to bring you and me right 0:20:58.636 --> 0:21:01.676 here and now. Okay, The past to me is smoke 0:21:01.756 --> 0:21:02.876 off the end of my cigar. 0:21:03.796 --> 0:21:06.356 For me, the past is also smoke off the end 0:21:06.396 --> 0:21:10.236 of my cigar, juicy wafts of pressure smoke to be 0:21:10.356 --> 0:21:14.076 hysterically clod at, like a rabid raccoon attacking a helium 0:21:14.076 --> 0:21:17.516 filled garbage can. And so I asked Pat to go 0:21:17.636 --> 0:21:20.756 back to the past and explain how he became involved 0:21:20.796 --> 0:21:24.316 with Quincy, Michael and the Messenger. He says it all 0:21:24.356 --> 0:21:27.636 began in Key West at the pirate themed museum. He 0:21:27.716 --> 0:21:31.756 owned that sat beside the pirate themed restaurant he also owned. 0:21:32.036 --> 0:21:35.796 And you get to know all the piratical personalities on 0:21:35.796 --> 0:21:38.956 that island, one of which was Reef. And Reef is 0:21:38.996 --> 0:21:42.076 a salvager and he's really got a piratical nature. He 0:21:42.076 --> 0:21:44.876 would even dress as a part and I really loved him. 0:21:45.276 --> 0:21:48.556 One day, Reef ast Pat for a favor. Could Pat 0:21:48.596 --> 0:21:51.436 meet with his son, Quincy, who wanted to make a movie. 0:21:51.716 --> 0:21:53.876 And we got talking and he turned me on to 0:21:54.116 --> 0:21:56.196 this script that he has been writing. 0:21:56.236 --> 0:21:57.476 And you liked it? 0:21:57.916 --> 0:22:00.476 Oh? Sure? Are you kidding me? It's talking about this 0:22:00.596 --> 0:22:03.396 young boy who has an effect on the ending of 0:22:03.436 --> 0:22:04.196 World War two? 0:22:04.436 --> 0:22:07.076 And you hadn't known that story. I hadn't known that story. 0:22:07.276 --> 0:22:08.996 Oh no, I had never heard of it. 0:22:09.196 --> 0:22:10.876 Your impression of Quincy when you first met. 0:22:10.796 --> 0:22:12.996 Him, Oh, I liked him and so and I believed 0:22:12.996 --> 0:22:14.276 everything Quincy told me. 0:22:15.356 --> 0:22:18.196 When Quincy's lie came out, Pat was furious. 0:22:18.556 --> 0:22:21.356 Prior to ten years ago, before you know, my minecrack. 0:22:21.716 --> 0:22:24.236 He's lucky he didn't cross my path, or else he 0:22:24.276 --> 0:22:25.076 wouldn't be walking. 0:22:26.116 --> 0:22:28.436 Do you mean that you mean that literally? 0:22:29.636 --> 0:22:35.556 Uh, let's say no. 0:22:35.676 --> 0:22:48.756 Since this is being taped, I'm pretty street savvy. I 0:22:48.916 --> 0:22:53.076 couldn't believe that I got Buffalo like this as someone 0:22:53.156 --> 0:22:55.236 I thought was a friend, you know, a friend, a 0:22:55.316 --> 0:22:56.196 Key West friend. 0:22:57.556 --> 0:23:00.116 I was so hurt that I was angry. And when 0:23:00.156 --> 0:23:03.396 I'm angry, the old pack croa cheap the old corner 0:23:03.436 --> 0:23:08.356 guy man. Not only did I lose the money, but 0:23:08.556 --> 0:23:10.836 all the context that I made for him to get 0:23:10.876 --> 0:23:13.716 him in USA. Today, I opened all these doors, through 0:23:13.756 --> 0:23:17.196