00:00:08 Speaker 1: And I invited you here. I thought I made myself perfectly clear. When you're a guest in my home, you gotta come to me empty. And I said, no, guests, your presences presents enough. I already had too much stuff. 00:00:35 Speaker 2: So how do you dare to surbey me? 00:00:47 Speaker 3: Welcome to, I said, no gifts. The High Energy Podcast for winners and their families. I'm Bridger Wineger. I'm so excited that you're here. I've got a blanket over my knees. I feel incredible, I'm warm. Who knows how long the feeling will last, but let's get into it. Today's guest is wonderful. It's none other than Sujin Pak Sujin. Welcome to. I said, no gifts. 00:01:16 Speaker 2: I'm gonna adjust my blanket over my lap. I'm going to get my little tishy pad all heat it up. You know, you got to have a heat it up toshe pad. 00:01:27 Speaker 3: You know, just two grandma's enjoying each other's company. How are you? 00:01:33 Speaker 2: I'm good. I mean, it's the end of the year, fast and furious. It's just a mud slide, face plant right to the very end. 00:01:42 Speaker 3: That's been the I mean, from January first of twenty twenty one. That's been the feeling for me. 00:01:47 Speaker 2: I have to say, I feel like I had some control and I did okay, And about three weeks ago the wheels got real shaky, and now I'm I haven't slept Richard quite a while. 00:02:04 Speaker 3: What's causing the general not sleeping? 00:02:06 Speaker 2: Gosh, that's really good question. You know I'm a notorious terrible sleeper. Do you I feel like you you go right in there into a casket like trance? 00:02:21 Speaker 3: Absolutely not. Yeah, I mean I feel like you and I are just going to continue to discover things about each other that were by the same You might be the same person, he might be the same person, because you know, when I was on your podcast at the cart we found out that we're deeply in love with the clearance section, and I just felt so close to you in that moment. And now I feel like, whatever this sleepnit get into you. I want to hear about you having a difficult time sleeping because you're talking to someone who had a very rough night last night. 00:02:49 Speaker 2: Oh me too, me too, so I and I'm I mean I could talk. This whole thing is going to be about sleep. I don't I don't know what else there is to talk about. But this is my favorite, hateful, favorite subject. But my sleep goes from I have a hard time falling asleep. Then at three am, here we are, Hey, should I have gotten those shoes on sale? I wonder if I could cancel it now, because if they're on sale, that probably means that a lot of people return them because they're not good. And I know this about myself. Wait, was that a green coat that I bought? Or so it's a series of those? Or oh I did I do a grilled cheese sandwich for my kids yesterday? So wait, damn it, I have to redo the lunches. So what I'm getting at is is it's not about world hunger or global warming. It's not about a global pandemic. What it is are the small, tiny, stupid details that make up every moment of our lives. And at three am, they all are in line in the queue, waiting for me to discuss and dissect every single one. And I wake up and I go, that was a terrible waste of four hours of my life. None of that matters to me. 00:04:29 Speaker 3: In the morning, I do this exact same thing, and it's before bed. Those thoughts are based on some level of logic they have some they're tied to reality in some way. At the three am version of them is now altered by nightmare logic nightmare, and so they're they're heightened to this degree that is like, oh, every one of these things I'm thinking about could potentially ruin my life. 00:04:54 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and it injected with cortisol fight or flight, you know, So now we're talking every no good thought and yeah, I wake up and I and I truly I'm exhausted, you know, because I'm starving, because I've just spent every calorie that I ate all day in the four hours between three am and seven am, and I wake up, and I have very rarely woken up and been like, those are some good ideas in there? Either that or I solved something every time I wake up, and I'm like. 00:05:32 Speaker 1: What. 00:05:34 Speaker 2: An insane person is living in my brain? Why do I care? Whether? What are these thoughts? They just don't thoughts I even I have any shred of do you know what I mean? Attachment? 00:05:49 Speaker 3: Of course? I mean, and I have to be very cautious about the ideas I have right before falling asleep the first time, because a lot of those ideas are like this is the one that'll save my care, this is the one that will make me rich. Then I wake up, I'm like, that is not even a quarter of a real idea. What was I thinking? And it felt like it was the solution to everything? 00:06:09 Speaker 2: Now here's my question, And I actually have never in my three am I always very often I'm like, damn it, I forgot to ask someone this question, And this has been going on for years and I've never remembered to ask this question, and I'm asking it to you now with Oh, I cannot one hundred percent sincerity. I can't believe I finally remember this question? How do you fall asleep? Meaning? Okay, so here I am like trying to fall asleep. I'm like, do I count to ten? Do I deep breathe? Am I you know projecting into the astral plane? Like, I actually don't know how to fall asleep? And I've been meaning for years to ask. 00:06:57 Speaker 3: Someone, So how do you follow like a simple method to fall asleep? 00:07:02 Speaker 2: Is it the same every night? I feel like people must have like a thing like a like a comfortable blanket that you know you put on. No, I'm asking that's what I've heard told that is experience. So every night it's just a Russian roulette. 00:07:19 Speaker 3: I'm not truly spinning the wheel of fortune wheel and just waiting for whatever thing to land on the solution. I have no way to fall asleep. There's nothing to give me. 00:07:30 Speaker 2: Some give me just a few a few things that you try to put in the roulette. 00:07:37 Speaker 3: So this is one my boyfriend told me that works for him. Although he's someone who just literally just like lies down on bed and is unconscious. I hate that person. Oh it makes me I'm married to that person. I'm married to that bird. 00:07:51 Speaker 2: They don't he doesn't move. It's it's a corpse like coffin sleep. He doesn't even dent the pillow. Like in the morning he gets up, and it's like it's like a ghost of a person was sleeping. 00:08:03 Speaker 3: Like floating a quarter of the off of the mattress the entire night. 00:08:06 Speaker 2: And I look over and and and he he's also one of those people that likes to sleep up, you know, like he I don't know, it's like maybe a sinus thing. And so I look over and I'm like, this jackass, first of all, isn't even in a position to be asleep, and is in the deepest sleep that I have ever ever wanted in my life, sitting up right. 00:08:28 Speaker 3: Just mocking me deeply unfair. Does he snore? 00:08:32 Speaker 2: No, the man, I tell you he and has been this way forever. We will be mid conversation and it'll be like yeah, and then oh, I know it's and I'm like finished this sentence. But of course I'm not gonna wake this man up. And he's sitting up. He sits up? Who sits up and sleeps? Anyway? 00:08:56 Speaker 3: This is this is the math that my boyfriend told me, which I've tried, and it probably worked at one point, but I'm sure only worked because of random chance. It wasn't because it worked for me. But he says that you should visualize a chalkboard and a piece of chalk, and you write the number one hundred on the chalkboard. Then you erase it with your mind. Then you write the word or the number ninety nine. Right, you erase that, do that until you fall asleep. It worked for me one time. It has not worked for me since, so I think that it might be a scam for sure. 00:09:26 Speaker 2: Your boyfriend, he may look lovely, but inside I feel like he is a scammer. Listen, that's a whole bother fraudulent, personally fraudulent, like pathological liar the thing about those kinds of things, because I've done those, of course, I am right. I mean I see things. And so I've tried the counting, and I've tried the like relaxing every part of your body, like starting from the top of your head. Okay, so the counting, I get about to ninety seven. I mean, I can't even get through the nineties, and I'm like, oh, wait, should I clean the wax out of my ear right now? Because I do kind of feel like I have it or whatever it is? And the heading, I mean, I try I do this every night because I think that that I feel like in my heart, I'm the type of person I like to meditate. I you know, I like stretching. I don't like I don't like my heartbeat to get up to a lively pattern, you know. So I feel like a relaxing of all the muscles in my body that feels I can't I've never been able to get past the jaw. 00:10:35 Speaker 3: It gets to your chin and you just shut down. 00:10:37 Speaker 2: I not even shut down, it just starts. It's not enough to keep those ridiculous thoughts at Bay. 00:10:48 Speaker 3: I think you and I have probably the exact same thing that's probably easily diagnosable, and we're just going to continue to live our lives like this forever until we die. 00:10:59 Speaker 2: And I mean about it, Adnazi. 00:11:01 Speaker 3: I've tried the relaxing. Yeah, I'm boring and annoying everyone in our lives, but look, it's the problem we live with and people need to hear us out. I've tried. You know, people were like taken antihistamine that'll knock you out. That for me was the actual worst because it had what I later learned is a paradoxical effect on me, which means that it doesn't make you sleepier, it makes you feel like you're on meth. Yeah, so I was like, there was a period when I was awake for like thirty six hours. Not good. So I guess there's I will say I accidentally paid for an entire year of Headspace once and the app tells you don't lie down while you're doing this, and I cheated. And the only reason I would use it is to fall asleep, and did it work. It would work for naps, but not night. Yeah. 00:11:56 Speaker 2: My whole thing with that is, well, I just I can't. I'm tempted. I've never been able to do that to I just I'm like, I just don't think someone talking in my ear is relaxing to me. I just can't. It's not relaxing to me when I'm awake. Why would it be relaxing when I'm trying. All I'm trying to do all day is stop the voices in my head and around me. Why so it doesn't feel like already just from the get go, the packaging is something that doesn't feel right, so I've never been. And then the other thing is just the technical aspect of it. So where do you like you can't go on your like right, you've got something your ear. So I'm not a back you know, sleeper. So so anyway, so that's that. 00:12:45 Speaker 3: Well. 00:12:45 Speaker 2: The other thing that I have talked about on our podcast is, uh, whenever I travel overseas, which I haven't been able to do obviously for a really long time. But I just recently went on a trip to Paris. I don't know if you have her that place. 00:13:01 Speaker 3: I'm very familiar. 00:13:02 Speaker 2: It's a small city, and I talk about it so much that it's as if I discovered it, and it's nobody has ever been to this town. But I when I go to these European countries, what I fill my suitcase with is European sleeping pills. And my friend just came back from Berlin and when she was there, she said, I'm at the pharmacy. 00:13:29 Speaker 3: What do you need? 00:13:30 Speaker 2: Because she knows what do you want me to tell the pharmacist? And I was like, okay, great, So we're going to do two categories of sleeping pills and you're going to fill whatever bag you have with as many different varieties. 00:13:44 Speaker 3: What are they doing with their sleeping pills? 00:13:46 Speaker 2: Well, this isn't scientific, and I'm not a doctor, so let's say that. 00:13:52 Speaker 3: Let's pretend. 00:13:53 Speaker 2: Let's pretend. But what I think is happening over there is that I feel like, in general, they have way more variet of sort of more natural sleeping polls right right, and that are more effective, and that they're just using different formulations in my mind, because they're more prone to that, you know, like yeah, I can get naiquill here and take my chances with the meth high right, but like exactly, so there's that and then and so that's kind of what I'm looking for, and yeah, it's I wish I could report back and say why either of us had something to it? Does some advice some drug too. I guess it's just going to be something that maybe eventually this will just break me in some way and uh then I'll be a different person and be able to go to sleep at night. 00:14:47 Speaker 3: I don't know. You know, I can fall asleep on a couch. 00:14:51 Speaker 2: Pretty easily, you see, It's like share. 00:14:54 Speaker 3: In a movie theater. It's the pressure, the pressure. Absolutely. Can you sleep on a plane, Ah, yes, but it's horrible and it's not I wake up tired and mad. 00:15:06 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:15:06 Speaker 3: Can you sleep on a plane? 00:15:07 Speaker 4: No? 00:15:09 Speaker 2: Oh? 00:15:09 Speaker 3: I mean I think planes should, especially on international flights, there should be the option for them to knock you out, yeah, or put you into some sort of deep sleep or something. That's it's the worst. I I'd like to go to Thailand or something. But the it's like twenty hours on an airplane. 00:15:31 Speaker 2: Oh no, unless you're my husband sleeping sitting up, you're screwed. And I've been on international flights with him where I look over and I'm like, this man is getting a full sixteen hours of sleep. 00:15:44 Speaker 3: Unbelievable. What is that? I don't know. I guess maybe does he is he an anxious person at all? 00:15:50 Speaker 2: He is, that's the thing. He's totally neurotic and insane. 00:15:56 Speaker 3: I was hoping you would say that he's just relaxed. 00:15:59 Speaker 2: No, I like married some like Australian surfer dude that's like smoking, gone all day. No, he's a neurotic Hollywood jew like that is who I married. And and yet this man it's I call it the baby sleep. I'm like, oh, there's the baby the baby sleep just a little. 00:16:18 Speaker 3: Are your kids able to fall asleep easily? 00:16:20 Speaker 2: They didn't as babies, which was fun, but now now yeah, pretty yeah they're not. They're they're totally fine sleepers. There's no yeah, nothing to report there. It's it's really just me. 00:16:34 Speaker 3: You're just kind of groaning. 00:16:37 Speaker 2: And then do you ever? Okay, we'll get off of this because I'm sure this is boring because we're talking about sleep. But then do you I the whole point is is that my brain is working so furiously and it's the middle of the night, and I have been known to get up and cook an omelet because I'm starving. 00:16:56 Speaker 4: Maybe that's what I need to try doing No, it doesn't know you're fully on you know, Venezuelan time, and you are not in Venezuela. 00:17:08 Speaker 3: I would love to just start clanging around the kitchen at three am. I'm sure my boyfriend would be thrilled. 00:17:14 Speaker 2: Nobody's thrilled when I do that. But yeah, you've got to do something. I mean, and I'm starving at this point. 00:17:20 Speaker 3: Right, And I do think that getting up and getting out of the room for at least a brief minute, changing the setting at before you get back in bed can work sometimes not for you. 00:17:33 Speaker 2: Again, I would be and it doesn't work for you either, as you have gotten up in the. 00:17:39 Speaker 3: Middle of the night. 00:17:39 Speaker 2: I'm sure you haven't had a change. 00:17:41 Speaker 3: Of sea last night. I mean, come on, well, I mean talking about sleepless nights and things that are keeping us awake, we might as well just get right into this. A few weeks ago you agreed to be on this podcast, and a few weeks before that, well, a few months before that, I was on your podcast cart which that episode of your podcast kind of felt like training wheels for this podcast in some interesting ways, where you know, I host, I said, no gifts, you host ad to Cart and while I was on AD to Cart, which I went in thinking was a safe space, ended up being kind of an ambush on your part and your co host Kulop's part. You ended up giving me some gifts on that podcast, a variety of treats and coffees, and it was, you know, it sent a real It threw me for a loop, and I thought that that was behind us. So you agreed to be on this podcast. I thought everything was going to be fine. A couple of weeks ago, I receive kind of a package, not kind of a package, a package, I'm sure package, and I was really bewildered. I will say I was confused. I knew you were coming up on the podcast, but it was far enough in the future that I thought this couldn't possibly be from such and it's to what could this be? And so but then, you know, two weeks went by, didn't sleep a wink, suffered physically, suffered, mentally, professionally, things have gone absolutely haywire for me. Relationships with my family are afraid this kind of thing. But now I have you here, I might as well ask you, is this a gift for me? 00:19:34 Speaker 2: It is a gift for you. And I know you said, wait a minute, Well, it isn't a bag. 00:19:41 Speaker 3: That says, let's see it says welcome a board, Welcome a board. 00:19:45 Speaker 2: Lives at the. 00:19:46 Speaker 3: Bottom of it just says ocean. And who knows how I ended up in this bag. 00:19:51 Speaker 2: And that's the theme for that bag is a theme for this year. You know, you can take it as something relaxing or a cry for help. 00:19:59 Speaker 3: This is where you kind of the I think there should be our emission statement for twenty twenty two. Welcome aboard ocean, Welcome a board, ocean. Yeah, the listener can do with those three words. What's right? 00:20:12 Speaker 5: Be creative because it's a creative exercise. Yes, look at twenty twenty two. Twenty well, that's a hard one to say. Twenty twenty two as your kind of blank canvas, your ocean, welcome yourself aboard and be creative. Kind of like Sujin was with sending me something that I didn't ask for. 00:20:37 Speaker 2: That's weird, correct, that's those are the best kinds of gifts. I love giving people things that they never asked for, things that they didn't want. And yet here I am. 00:20:47 Speaker 3: Well, should I open it here on the podcast? 00:20:50 Speaker 2: Absolutely you should to dive in and you know what, I obviously everybody knows. It's not like we planned anything on this podcast. So it is very interesting that I sent you a gift that is related to what we just talked about. 00:21:05 Speaker 3: Oh, you're kidding. 00:21:06 Speaker 2: No, I'm not kidding. 00:21:12 Speaker 3: Oh, I'm very excited to see what's happening in here. 00:21:15 Speaker 2: We'll get the tissue going. 00:21:17 Speaker 3: Let's get a nice, healthy tissue. 00:21:21 Speaker 2: Yeah, just sidle into that. But that soothing noise, a rhythm happening. Thousand paper cuts. 00:21:30 Speaker 3: This episode will have the longest tissue yet. 00:21:33 Speaker 2: It's right, turn up that tissue warmer. 00:21:37 Speaker 3: Okay, it's been thrown on the ground, reaching into aforementioned soft package. Okay, I didn't realize this until just now. It says bridge or wineger dash, do not open. Correct, Well, I've followed your rule. Let's get rip it open. Oh. 00:22:02 Speaker 2: I had to send it early because I was like, what if if that is a new thing, like guests, so this podcast probably should think about and I just I didn't want to tell. Yeah. 00:22:15 Speaker 3: See here, Okay, I'm getting okay, I'm getting a look. I'm trying to figure out Wait, okay, are these sucks? These are Dicky's brand, six pairs of Dry Dry Tech Crew Performance Work socks Sweat fighting, Stay Dry Comfort. Okay, and is there a note or anything let's see. No, No, there's a senda, thank you and a gift for you. Okay. Oh, actually this does say something that says what does it say? Please do not open until we record. Well, this doesn't do any good. It's in the package. All will be revealed. Okay, Okay, I want to hear everything about these sweatproof socks. What's going on? Okay? 00:23:05 Speaker 2: So we just talked about sleep. And I have been told by people in my life in my past that one one ex boyfriend said that he had never met anyone that put on more clothes to go to sleep than when they did when they woke up. And when I like to sleep, I make sure that there is not a draft to be found anywhere in the room or could somehow touch my skin. So it's a three quarter turtleneck type of top. 00:23:45 Speaker 3: Is that true? 00:23:46 Speaker 2: Full sleeves, yes, full sleeves. It's I like to sleep with, you know, sweatpants or whatever, pajama pants, but I tuck them in to a sock. Now. I have tried many, many socks. I have tried, Oh, you know those sleep socks, you know with the fuzzy yarny knit that's very soft. 00:24:10 Speaker 3: But that knit is too, that's a very slippery knit. 00:24:15 Speaker 2: It's a slippery knit, but it's a loose knit and in between those little holes of little air drafts can come in. So that's one I've I've tried socks where they don't go quite up high enough so that the pant kind of comes undone as I'm wrestling with my sweep at three in the morning. And I have found that these are the socks that do the trick. They have dry tech tech fabric technology, so you don't sweat in them, you know, kids it gets too hot. They're actually hiking socks. They go up just high enough because once again they are hiking socks. I wear to bed and especial actually in the pandemic, who's wearing shoes? These have become also my shoes. So how did you stumble upon this type of sock? Well, I have been looking for I socks, or I think people gift me socks. I buy socks, you know, when I'm anywhere and there's like a sock standing And when you go to Koreatown and you're shopping for groceries. Usually there'll be a sock lady right outside and I'm in there, just knee deep, just rifling through all of her socks, you know. And I'm a sock person, and so, like I said, over the years, I've tried socks, different types of socks. And I don't know how I stumbled on this. I'm sure by chance, because I'm willing to try anything. It wasn't like someone recommended it. And I, you know, I was looking for truthfully, I was looking for a sock that I felt could take me from night to day. Meaning I didn't want to put on shoes, you know, and I don't wear shoes in the house, and so I needed a sock that did that. This is this is it. I put on a parrot night that takes me through the morning, and then I put on a fresh, clean pair before I go to bed, and they take me off and I never take them off. 00:26:20 Speaker 3: I like that. You go to bed just ready to go skiing. Yeah, you could just easily hit the slopes at any moment in the middle of the night. Now, So you so this sock is it's not during the day. I assume you're wearing a more stylish sock. 00:26:36 Speaker 2: No, I'm actually wearing I'm wearing the dickies now from. 00:26:40 Speaker 3: Last you're wearing even with shoes, you're wearing these. Oh yes, interesting, Oh please, because you're such a as far as I can tell, a very stylish person. 00:26:49 Speaker 2: Yeah, fine, I'm wearing these dicky socks in shoved. 00:26:55 Speaker 3: In so I can go twenty four hours a day. 00:26:58 Speaker 2: Then they go twenty four hours I'm and I obviously I change them because I can't go to sleep in this dirty socks, right, just like you can't go to sleep in your old underwear that you've been wearing all day. You know, you you got to get a clean, clean layer in, you know, anything that's touching your skin, clean, clean, clean when you get into bed, and then you take that right into the morning and you go off, You go off and you conquer the day. 00:27:27 Speaker 3: Now. Have you been dressing like this for bed since you were a kid or is this like an adult thing? No? 00:27:34 Speaker 2: I think I've been dressing like this. I mean I can't remember as a kid very clearly, but I know I have been dressing like this for sleep since I can remember. So I don't know since I was eight I don't know, definitely. I mean I have never like cool Op, who's my co host on attic cart my podcast. She she once showed me something she slept it. It was like a like a cotton nightie that was like above her knee, and I had never seen anything more ridiculous. In I was like, that is absurd, It's absurd. There are so many areas of vulnerability air insect. I mean, what do not make me tell you about the horror story of my friend who in Mexico she sleeps naked, got bit by some sort of a bug in her crotch area. 00:28:40 Speaker 3: Oh no, woke up with swollen crotch. 00:28:46 Speaker 2: Just swollen crotch, I mean, oh yeah, And anyway, we all know someone who has been to another country, you know whatever it is. And yes I do. I sleep with ear plugs in not only to drown the sound but the fear of an insect crawling in my ear and laying eggs. Yes, yes, is that irrational? Fine? 00:29:12 Speaker 3: Fine, Okay, you dressed like an assassin going to bed, correct sir, I was going to wake up and grab their sniper rifle and headed out into the world. 00:29:23 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Katy Burglar, I know it's true, and it's nothing, nothing sexy time happening. Obviously there was. 00:29:32 Speaker 3: I mean, going back to our similarities, there was a period between third and fifth grade that I was so deadly afraid that either a snake, a spider, or a rat was going to bite me while I was asleep. That's how I was dressing. Every night. I covered every part of my body up until my chin. 00:29:51 Speaker 2: And tuck the sheets of course, of course. 00:29:53 Speaker 3: And every piece of clothing was tucked into the other piece of clothing. I had socks over my hands, socks over my feet. 00:30:00 Speaker 2: Okay, there's stuff in there for all of your appendages. 00:30:04 Speaker 3: I mean, the head continues to be vulnerable. I don't know what the thought there was. Oh wow, just wake up and rats have chewed my face off. 00:30:13 Speaker 2: That's true or perfect? Like myself, I sleep with many pillows also on my head. I mean, if you looked over at my sleeping situation, yes you would be. You would be concerned not only for my physical health but my mental health, because I yes, I bury myself underneath pillows with the full ski gear on underneath. And and you wonder where I can't sleep. No, that's not that's there's no way, if there's a I've woken up, if my I'm such a light sleeper, if my my sleeping pant has come out of my sock and there's a sliver of skin exposed. Yeah, unfortunately I I have woken up. 00:31:01 Speaker 3: And so what about like in the middle of the summer, do you just keep your house really cold? 00:31:07 Speaker 2: No, I just am one of those people that is never warm enough. Yeah, it's a cold, cold, stone hard. I'm there's there. I'm sure you could draw a lot of metaphors for how cold I run and how human touch horrifies me, and I recoil at the thought. Listen, they all maybe related. I'm open to that. 00:31:32 Speaker 3: You know who knows? They probably are. 00:31:34 Speaker 2: Yeah, And guess what, I don't care. 00:31:37 Speaker 3: I now we're in the middle of winter in La So it's a very confusing time temperature wise, because during the day it kind of feels like summer. That's when the temperature drops at night. So I basically layer to go to bed and then wake up undressed, having no recollection of when the clothes came off my body, and sometimes like part of them will still be on me. There'll be different parts of the room, or I'll wake up with like a full robe on over the things. God knows what's happening in my brain in the middle of the night. 00:32:13 Speaker 2: It's just nobody knows. 00:32:14 Speaker 3: Yeah, do you dream much? 00:32:16 Speaker 1: Do you dreams? 00:32:18 Speaker 2: I do? I do remember dreams. I dream much, and I've always been a very very vivid, active dreamer. Oh God, this is dark Bridger. 00:32:27 Speaker 3: I don't. 00:32:28 Speaker 2: I feel like I should just lie and make myself sound less disturbed, but I'm not going to. But also, like not ever since I was a kid, I've just very graphic, violent, terrible, horrible dreams. 00:32:45 Speaker 3: Now is the graphic violence happening to you or are you perpetuating the violence both? Wow, Sometimes it's because you're dressed like a killer. You go to you dress for the dreams you want to have. That's what I'm saying. 00:33:01 Speaker 2: Yes, and I am a ninja ready ready to yes, to fight and die by the sword every night I go into battle. 00:33:10 Speaker 3: Yeah. Now, are the violent dreams scary or is it kind of just commonplace at this point? 00:33:16 Speaker 2: I mean, okay, they are scary as I'm having them, but I've gotten much better at shaking them off in the morning. Okay, Yeah, they used to sort of you know, like you have those mem You're like, oh, that's I'm not sure. Oh what does that say about you? And then you're talking about therapy and trying to analyze why you must have these dreams every night and you feel that, you know, the knife just like piercing flesh on you know, like why does it have to be so graphic? But now I'm just like, Okay, that's just my dream world. Yeah, just my dream world, and I don't need to think about it. 00:33:54 Speaker 3: Now. Do you like consume a lot of violent media or anything like that? That's all? 00:33:59 Speaker 2: Isn't that crazy? I can't even look at a scary poster, like when I'm driving and there's like that movie it right for a while that pot and I would be like no, no, bus like a bus stop. I would be like no, no, no. Even in my periphery, I can't. I can't even look at a poster, much less a trailer to a scary movie. So I think there's just enough happening in here my own fears. Now, what do you dream about or do you not remember your dreams? I have a really hot hard time recalling dreams. I lately my dreams have been so chaotic and all over the map like very high stakes and then very low stakes, and then low stakes things that are extremely high stakes. But the weird thing I've realized recently is my boyfriend. 00:34:42 Speaker 3: Is never in my dreams. And I'm wondering if that's because I just spend so much time with him that my brain is like, that's the one thing we don't need to deal with. But he's like he's almost entirely absent from my dreamscape. 00:34:57 Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say it's pretty rare that my part or makes an appearance. I wonder, now, are you the type of person when you're dreaming it's like absurd, you know, whereas like or are you the type of person where like this feels like very detailed and very much like I'm awake. 00:35:14 Speaker 3: It's usually more absurd. I mean, obviously they feel real in the moment, but they're never you know, like people be like you can lucid dream by just realizing you're in an absurd situation. It's never to that point, right, So it's it's a weird mix of you know, it's just dreams. It's Uh, I need to start a dream journal, as I is what I need to do for what purpose? For the next time you're on the podcast, and I'll say, listen, I've got a few to tell you about. People love to hear about dreams. 00:35:45 Speaker 2: And then you're just like, what am I doing this for? 00:35:49 Speaker 3: People love to hear long winded stories with no connection to reality and go nowhere? 00:35:54 Speaker 2: What are you going back? And being like, oh, it's a twenty dean. 00:36:01 Speaker 3: I do remember when I was a kid, I would have recurring dreams when I would have the flu that had to do with there was a child a children's book called Sylvester and the Magic Pebble, which is about like a donkey that turns into a rock, And I would have that dream all the time. And I would also have a dream which was very scary about a little girl sitting on top of a box in a warehouse wearing like an old fashioned swimsuit, you know, those like twenties full body swimsuits calling my name, which is hunting. I mean, what a strange thing to have a dream about as a child, but reoccurring, oh, every time I had the flu. Those were the two types of dreams. 00:36:43 Speaker 2: Oh that's crazy. 00:36:46 Speaker 3: Yeah, life stuff right, And I feel like the violence is you must have been some sort of Viking warrior. 00:36:54 Speaker 2: I'm not ruling that out. I'm not ruling that out. 00:36:57 Speaker 3: I don't. 00:36:58 Speaker 2: I think the dream. I think that the fact that we dream it it is I mean, try to explain. 00:37:05 Speaker 3: That it is one of the true and I mean it's just a very mysterious thing to this day. It's such a magic thing that has still not that much of an explanation. 00:37:17 Speaker 2: No, and and there's no and we do everyone does it. I mean, and it it is a really when you start to think about it again, three am thoughts. 00:37:29 Speaker 3: I do love a scary dream. Waking up from a scary dream is always such a lovely relief. Yes, right, like, oh that was kind of exciting and it didn't actually have to happen. 00:37:40 Speaker 2: Yeah, now I can make an omelet right. 00:37:43 Speaker 3: Well, I've got should I try one of these socks on? Now, I've never put on a sock during a podcast, and there's. 00:37:48 Speaker 2: Ye try it on. It's it's it's just the right amount of hug. God, I hate a loose. 00:37:54 Speaker 3: Sock to feel like a loose sock falling down over your calf. I don't ruin your day. 00:38:00 Speaker 2: It ruined, yes, and so it's a nice snug fit, but it's not like it's a compression sock. 00:38:06 Speaker 3: But compression sock. 00:38:08 Speaker 2: You haven't no, well, I thought we were we agreed, we were old ladies. That's weird because I love. 00:38:16 Speaker 3: A compression that's grade. 00:38:17 Speaker 2: Yeah, but this one. And you know, I got you black. You know I didn't get well, actually don't come in funky colors. But sometimes that, you know, I get, I'll get a little wild and get the multi colored like heel, you know, and it'll be a purple heel on a black sock. 00:38:32 Speaker 3: Black sock is good for all occasions. 00:38:35 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I'm a big believer in black line. 00:38:37 Speaker 3: I've got the sock on now. 00:38:38 Speaker 2: It fits perfectly, thank you. 00:38:41 Speaker 3: Let you just take a peek at my foot in the sock. Yeah, that feels great, and I can you know this could be a night or day sock. 00:38:49 Speaker 2: I love it exactly. 00:38:51 Speaker 3: It's an around the house sock. 00:38:52 Speaker 2: Listen. I've gotten my husband into these socks. I you know, well I buy them. 00:38:59 Speaker 3: Yeah, it happens to wear them. They're a unisex sock. They're in the laundry. 00:39:03 Speaker 2: Yeah no, but we it's a good sock. I want to know. Text me, let's give the socks about three weeks, you know, live in them a little, you know, try them. 00:39:14 Speaker 3: I'm not gonna make it. I'm currently in trial contacts, and now I'm in trial socks. 00:39:18 Speaker 2: Yes, everything is just a bit of a trial. It's the end of the year, Richard. You don't know what twenty twenty two. 00:39:24 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean these socks could lead me down a whole new path that's right towards welcome a board. 00:39:29 Speaker 2: Ocean and welcome a board ocean or overboard ocean. You know, we're not sure yet, So in a few weeks you will let me know. Hey, these are really fantastic socks. Thanks. 00:39:44 Speaker 3: You're going to get an all caps text that just says welcome a board ocean. Be prepared. It's okay, great, fifty exclamation points. I will find the sock emoji. Yeah boy, it'll probably set your phone on fire. Yeah, well, this is great. I'm now in two different socks. I think we should play a game. 00:40:05 Speaker 2: Let's do it. 00:40:05 Speaker 3: Do you want to play a game called Gift Master or a game called gift or a curse? 00:40:09 Speaker 2: Oh, gift or a curse? 00:40:10 Speaker 3: Okay, beautiful. I need a number between one and ten nine okay, Oh, I love a high number. I have to do some light calculating. I have to get the game pieces we're gonna be working with. Promote something, Recommend something. You've got the mic for a minute, do whatever you want. 00:40:27 Speaker 2: All right, Well, I've given you the secrets of my socks, So go ahead, guys, I get that well. Bridger mentioned that I have a podcast with a lovely gal named Koolop and it's called Ad Decarte, and this is what we do. Every week. We talk about the things that we've bought that have just delighted us and brought us joy. Some of them are game changers. Oh, a game changer, you ask, sure? Like for instance, when I found a toilet cleaner that then went into a UV tray so that all the bacteria was killed upon every time I I washed, I clean my toilet, and I thought, well, that's a game changer. My life will never be the same. That company has now shuddered and you can no longer find them. I should have bought so many of them. 00:41:15 Speaker 3: You should have loaded up. 00:41:17 Speaker 2: I keep talking about this. This could be the only merch that we ever saw. Is this toilet brush that went into a UV holder? I mean, that is genius. 00:41:32 Speaker 3: That's a very good idea. 00:41:34 Speaker 2: I have been throwing out toilet brushes disgustingthy, it's filthy, or like fine, I'll wash it and then I'll take it out back and let it sit in the sun. And then I forget about it, and and you know, the next day, someone comes over and it's like, oh, you're one of those people. I had so many toilet brushes. 00:41:57 Speaker 3: Wait, so this company is shut down. 00:41:59 Speaker 2: You can't get them anymore. 00:42:01 Speaker 3: Oh jeez, So I think you've got to revive it. 00:42:04 Speaker 2: I know, well I have thought about it. But anyway, those are just some of the things that we talk about in our podcast. 00:42:10 Speaker 3: It's an excellent podcast, a very fun time, and I mean just this little peek into it. You've heard about this toilet brush listener, so go listen to it. Okay, it's time to play Gift or a Curse. This is how we play. Okay, I'm going to name three things. You're going to tell me if they're a gift or a curse and why there are correct answers. You will lose this game if you mess up, so just be extremely careful. 00:42:38 Speaker 2: But if I if I win this game. 00:42:40 Speaker 3: If you win this game, you enter a very rare territory. I think I think maybe three people out of eighty odds o people have won this game, so you know, the stakes have never been higher never. All right, the first one this is a listener suggest gift, and the listener is named Amy. Gift or a curse. Those plastic coded paper clips, you know, the little ones that are kind of they're in all colors, they're a. 00:43:11 Speaker 2: Little yeah, I mean, of course they're a gift. What what's the curse that's attached to it? I mean, why wouldn't you look doubtful? Forger? Do you not agree? 00:43:25 Speaker 3: I just want to hear your reasoning as to why you why they're a gift as opposed to the strictly metal. 00:43:31 Speaker 2: Oh, strictly metal. I mean, that's just there's no technology there. You know, we haven't improved, we haven't involved. You know, we're we're past that point. We also are not selling sending each other, you know, telegraphs. You know. Now now we've got bullet journals, We've got bullet coffee. You know, we were putting gee, we're putting butter. We're putting butter in our coffee. You know, these days, this is what where we're at. And each of those. You know, you use the blue ones for your taxes, and you use the red ones for thank you notes, and you use the yellow ones for reminders. It's just it's technology, it's human evolution. 00:44:15 Speaker 3: I love to hear it. You've got the first one, right, I love those little things. 00:44:19 Speaker 2: That's as this game. 00:44:21 Speaker 3: Oh you're off to a very good start. I mean, don't count your chickens, but look, you're off to a very good start. I love the little plastic paper clips. Occasionally I'll probably chew on one, you know, I'll bite it. The metal ones, no, thank you, they're dangerous. It's not the forties anymore. 00:44:39 Speaker 1: No. 00:44:39 Speaker 3: I love the little plastic They're still metal, so they have the hard, crunchy center. I'm basically talking like, I eat these, listener, don't eat the plastic coded paper clip. Just enjoy them for what they are. They're color coded so you can, you know, as Susan was just saying, use them to organize. I love them, absolutely, absolutely excellent. You've knocked this one out of the park. 00:45:06 Speaker 2: It is an easy one. I see, I see you starting me off. Real Soft. 00:45:10 Speaker 3: Real Soft just lure you into kind of this this sense that you're going to do well and then knock you down. We'll see, Okay. The second one is from our producer on aalise on a Lisea's suggested gift or a curse when a bride slash groom wears converse during their ceremony gift or a curse. 00:45:31 Speaker 2: Well, no, no, no, no, no no, no, this one, this one. I'm putting myself out here for this one because I did. I did wear pink converse for my reception. Okay, ok, but not not for the ceremony. Absolutely a curse. You can't wear sneakers to pledge your undying love, devotion, and obedience. 00:46:03 Speaker 3: Let's get that be very important in relationship cap it alone. 00:46:09 Speaker 2: To a partner in converse, that's like, that's like making a promise and then crossing your fingers behind your back. You're not nobody. Everybody knows you're not serious. I mean, I wouldn't take that person seriously. 00:46:23 Speaker 3: Wow, two out of two. Of course that's a curse. What are you fourteen? This isn't the Blink one eighty two concert? Take it sure where I'm doing the reception? When you have to walk all over the lawn or whatever greeting people, you barely want to talk to Look, I'm not getting married anytime soon or ever, but during a ceremony, can we please just be adults for ten minutes? That's right. You don't need you dancing in We don't need you in your skatewear. Just put on the clothes and get married like two serious people. 00:46:57 Speaker 2: That's right. I agree, that's right to adults. Please adults only. Otherwise, do whatever you're going to do at the skatepark. 00:47:05 Speaker 4: You don't warp tour whatever you're doing. 00:47:11 Speaker 3: But not during the marriage ceremony, especially when I drove across town in my dress shoes to watch you get married. 00:47:19 Speaker 2: Fit. Oh my, that is a very good point. How rude, extremely rude, that's not wow. Yeah no, yeah, definitely curse. 00:47:29 Speaker 3: Just clear as day. Okay, so you have two out of two. Now I'm starting to worry. Uh, we'll just see what happens here. Finally, we have a listeners suggestion, gift or a curse. This is from Kathleen. Kathleen has suggested gift or a curse corn on the cob holders shaped like little corn cobs. 00:47:51 Speaker 2: I mean, your listeners are as deranged as you are. It's a beautiful circle of trust that you've here, and that's that's how you. 00:48:01 Speaker 3: Know, you know, you gotta find your community. 00:48:04 Speaker 2: That's right, this is your these are your people's corn on the again, this goes oh no, no, okay. It's similar to my first answer, which was, how can this be a curse? Do you want to hold a boiling hot corn on the cob with your fingers? Or or what else? What you're gonna put on oven? Myths like how else? What do you jab a fork? And the what? How else are you gonna eat the corn on the cob? That's ho You're gonna have a cold corn on the cop We'll just have it in the can. Then nobody's gonna have a cold corn like No, it's pulling out a leftover cold corn on the cob from the Fourth of July barbecue and just gnawing on that thing the next day. Right, you're getting it hot fresh, and it's a classic. It's Americana. Okay. You may not agree with what this country is doing to itself at this moment, but let's pretend that there is this place that we all once agreed was perfectly reasonable, and there they used these things and it was perfectly reasonable. 00:49:22 Speaker 3: The imagination's a powerful thing. Oh wow, Look, I would love nothing more than to send you away with a two out of three, but I can't. You did it three out of three. Of course, I didn't even know that there's an Is there an alternative to miniature coren? What other things are you sticking in there? They're very cute. I don't even like to eat corn, and those are the one thing that tempts me. I think that every food should look like the food. A fork should look like a chicken leg, blight should look like a sandwich. I would be happy. Let's make novelty everything, high function, high form. 00:49:59 Speaker 2: Listen. I one of my my favorite things when I go to a friend's house, who really knows how to be a host is. 00:50:05 Speaker 6: I'm marvel at at that his butter plate is shaped like butter. His asparagus is served on a on a ceramic plate shaped like asparagus. This, this person exists, exists. 00:50:22 Speaker 2: He's the mad hatter. You have so many platters for everything. He's so proud of his platters. I love. It's just it's it's fun, it's whimsical. It's a conversation starter. 00:50:32 Speaker 3: I mean, come on, metal paper clips. I mean, there's you've got to have something to hold it with. I don't even know that it's a question that this thing could be a problem. 00:50:45 Speaker 2: No, not at all. 00:50:46 Speaker 3: It's it's actually one of probably ten perfect products that have ever been designed by human being. 00:50:51 Speaker 2: I would say five. 00:50:53 Speaker 3: Look, I'm on board with you. You just got three out of three. Why not. I'm jumping on ship with you. There have been five perfect things made by human beings at least, and I would say probably number three right there in the middle, miniature corn that you stick in a corner on the cob. It's a gorgeous product. 00:51:10 Speaker 2: Were the same person, I agree, completely agree. 00:51:13 Speaker 3: Wow, well congratulations. You know I'm furious you hate to see somebody just blow away the game that easily. But yeah, I also feel very connected to you. Now yeah, okay, we're going to answer a listener question. This is called I said no emails people write into I said no gifts at gmail dot com. People have issues, people have problems, people have concerns, questions. They turn to me, They turn to the guests, They get perfect answers. They their life is improved. Here is the question, dear Bridger an esteemed guests. So this person kind of quickly predicted that you were. They obviously knew you were going to win the game, So there there goes. Yeah, my close friend Leo is moving to New York and I have no idea what to get him as a goodbye present. I was going to make him a scrapbook of our fun times together, but I recently got into an accident and broke my left shoulder and left foot, rendering me unable to put together a thoughtful gift. Leo is a huge fan of your podcast, as am I. Okay, so we know Leo's a good egg. We know this person's a good egg, and I'm hoping that you can offer some advice as what to buy him. Leo isn't the theater hot guys working out and listening to books being read out loud. I don't have a ton of money because my hospital bills are very large, and I don't know anything about New York. So any help on what it has to offer that pertains to the above would be so appreciated. Please help Emily. First of all, Okay, Emily, I'm hearing a lot of excuses. Scrapbook. You're saying scrapbook is something you can do from any bed hospital, bed bed at home. I do feel like immediately you were looking for an excuse not to do this scrap book. Do you feel like that may be true, Susan. 00:52:59 Speaker 2: I think so. I mean a scrap book, let's just what's a lot of work. You know, it's a huge crack and we live in a digital world. Let's let's if you wanted to send the man off with some mementos of your friendship. You go into I don't know what it's like Apple photo Album and you click and drag and guess what they bind it. They make it look like a real books and it's gorgeous. You don't have to glue anything, you don't have to dodge, podge hodge on it. You literally click and drag. If that is the vibe that you wanted to do, you know it to gift. That's a very easy one. 00:53:46 Speaker 3: Look your shoulder and leg are let's say shoulder and left foot are broken. 00:53:50 Speaker 2: Yeah, it could be the dominant, but still a clicking and a dragging. You can do that with your mouth. Really, it's a very simple thing. 00:53:59 Speaker 3: Easy. 00:54:00 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:54:00 Speaker 3: I mean, I think the real story here is that Emily knew that Leo would be listening to this podcast wanted him to think that she was thoughtful enough to make a scrap book when she that was never in the cards, and if it was, maybe she got in over her head with the scrapbook promise, got herself into an accident to avoid doing it. 00:54:21 Speaker 2: And just in case you thought that she was going to give you a generous gift, she's also not flush with some cash, so she's in hospital bills. Let's lower these expectations. You're going to get an apple for the pain ride to New York as a snack because they don't give food out anymore on these planes. 00:54:40 Speaker 3: That's not a bad idea. Pack a little bag of treats for him to eat on the way there. Because we've got theater. Okay, that's look. Everyone knows that nobody goes to the theater in New York, so that's off the table for Leo. There's no chance he's got They have no world class theater in New York, so forget that. Don't get him tickets to anything. He's into hot guys. New York is famously ago city, and listening to books being read out loud, now that's something maybe you look up like something happening at a local library and give him a tip that feels right. It's free, the New York Public Library great system. The librarians are probably there reading at some point. Let it map out, you know, a little day for him to go to the library and hear somebody read a book. 00:55:28 Speaker 2: Yeah, and Bridger, if you're not using your annual subscription to that that app, you can give it to her and she can gift it. 00:55:36 Speaker 3: I'll just share the password with you. He'll get the last two months or whatever. Good enough, and look, Leo. Hopefully Leo's listening right now. Hopefully this is gift enough. It's now, you know, at least as long as the grid is alive and we have electricity, this podcast will be there for him to hear. Emily loves you, Leo, at least enough to write into the podcast. Maybe not enough to do a scrapbook or overcome her injury, but she at some point cared for you, and hopefully you too will be able to stay in touch. Maybe you can, you know, make a little bed on your couch for her when she comes to New York. Hopefully this friendship will last for another couple of years. Nothing lasts forever. Leo's probably going to become really sophisticated, and then suddenly Emily feels like a yokel and things change. But we wish you both the best of luck. Do you have any other anything else to tell them? 00:56:38 Speaker 2: I do wish you both a lot of luck. But Leo's to embark on an adventure. You lived in New York for a long time, that's right, And I left all of my California friends in the dust, all those yokels, And when they would show up with giant suitcases and next round the pillows, I would slam my door in their. 00:57:04 Speaker 3: Head back to the bus depot. Loser. Well, Emily got exactly the advice she needed. Leo got. I mean the gift surprise or there's no surprise left for Leo. But whatever, you too, enjoy your lives. Don't write in again, So Jean, I've had a fantastic time outside of you winning the game against my wishes. I now have one of your socks on. Eventually i'll have two on it. It is I'll be honest. It's creating a heat imbalance in my body right now. 00:57:40 Speaker 2: That isn't an uncomfortable heat. 00:57:44 Speaker 3: I can't say it's frying my brain you're watching me kind of unravel. But I do also have a cruchede blanket over my knees, a hoodie, a flannel and a T shirt on, so I probably should go off into the world and take off a layer. 00:57:59 Speaker 2: Yeah, just a layer. But okay, take it easy. 00:58:01 Speaker 3: I'm going to try to. It's the last thing I will ever do is take it easy. 00:58:06 Speaker 2: Right, We're about to go to sleep, so it's about it. The toughest part of our day has only just begun. I don't want and I'm drinking caffeine. Oh my life, Oh my life. It's okay, it's okay. When you put the socks on at night tonight, just imagine that I'm I'm there holding your. 00:58:28 Speaker 3: Assassin gear. 00:58:29 Speaker 2: That's right, just holding on to each pale foot with gentle pulses of heat. 00:58:36 Speaker 3: The dirty Oh, thank you so much. This was wonderful. Thank you for having me and listener. Look, I hope you have a nice sleep tonight. You might be listening to this at seven thirty in the morning and now suddenly you're all you're looking forward to is going to bed, and your day becomes an unlivable hell. That's It's really not my issue. You're the one that chose to listen to this podcast, and I just put it out there for you to eat up. So you're welcome, have a wonderful day, goodbye. I said, No Gifts is an exactly right production. It's produced and engineered by our dear friend Anna Lisa Nelson, and the theme song is by miracle worker Amy Mann. You must follow the show on Instagram at I said No Gifts, that's where you're going to see pictures of all these wonderful gifts I'm getting. You have to see the gifts. Listen and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher or wherever you found me, and why not leave a review while you're there. It's really the least you could do, considering everything I do for you. 00:59:53 Speaker 2: Liever, did you hear. 00:59:57 Speaker 1: Fun a man? Myself? Perfectly clear? 01:00:01 Speaker 3: But you're I guess to my home? 01:00:05 Speaker 1: You gotta come to me empty, And I said, no, guess, your own presences presents enough. I already had too much stuff, So how do you dare to surbey me?