Speaker 1: I'm Matt Miller and I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is
Speaker 1: hot pursuit.
Speaker 2: All right, we have a lot of cool stuff to
Speaker 2: talk about on today's show. Number one, we're going to
Speaker 2: talk about the collector car market, because Hannah, you've written
Speaker 2: a piece about maybe some of the high end Ferrari
Speaker 2: prices are going to soften a little bit and some
Speaker 2: American muscle maybe has room to grow.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, you could say that.
Speaker 4: We're also going to talk about your Porsche drive.
Speaker 2: You've driven yet another amazing Pea car, and I want
Speaker 2: to get some info from you because you know so
Speaker 2: much about the company and collecting about what people could
Speaker 2: get into for a reasonable price.
Speaker 4: Now in terms of p cars.
Speaker 3: I got a few ideas.
Speaker 2: Then we're going to talk about the ev kind of
Speaker 2: backlash because it was breakneck pace in terms of the growth, sales, growth,
Speaker 2: investment of more than one hundred billion dollars in this decade,
Speaker 2: and now we're seeing production get cut and big losses.
Speaker 2: So it looks like that turning around in a big way.
Speaker 4: So let's do it. We'll kick it off with the
Speaker 4: collector car market.
Speaker 2: I used to watch all the time Barrett Jackson and
Speaker 2: mikam auctions as a kid on whatever cable channel because
Speaker 2: nothing was on cable except for that, and loved it.
Speaker 2: But I'm not that in touch with that anymore because
Speaker 2: I feel like most of the vehicles that I would
Speaker 2: want are way too expensive.
Speaker 1: Yes, I think this is a common thing for all
Speaker 1: of us. In the years since the pandemic, we've seen
Speaker 1: record volumes of cars being sold, record sales across many
Speaker 1: brands BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Ferrari. It's been this bonanza, and
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three has really been the first year where
Speaker 1: everything is just calmed down a bit, which sounds when
Speaker 1: you say the market's cooling, it sounds a little negative.
Speaker 1: But actually what I'm hearing is this is actually good
Speaker 1: news for people like us who might just want to
Speaker 1: own one or two interesting cars, and we're not going
Speaker 1: to speculate on it.
Speaker 3: We just want to something fun and drive it.
Speaker 2: I mean, you could also say that inflation has come down,
Speaker 2: which is true, but that doesn't change the massive rise
Speaker 2: in prices that hasn't and isn't going to turn around.
Speaker 4: Right, So, in terms of the higher end.
Speaker 2: Cars, the ferraris you know, the Rarer, porschas anything with
Speaker 2: a race provenance, these prices are gonna stay where they are, right, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's no sure thing in the car market,
Speaker 1: but if there's something close, it's Ferrari. This is really
Speaker 1: the blue chip brand, the blue chip vehicle of car collecting.
Speaker 3: Last year, the average price of a Ferrari slipped.
Speaker 1: From one point three million to one point two million,
Speaker 1: So yeah, they came off a little bit, but they're
Speaker 1: still very expensive, and you know they're going to sell.
Speaker 1: I think ninety percent of Ferrari sol last year compared
Speaker 1: to eighty percent average in the market, So.
Speaker 3: They're gonna sell.
Speaker 1: There's a little bit of a cooling, but yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: if you want to have kind of a sure bet,
Speaker 1: Ferrari is the way to go. And yes they're expensive,
Speaker 1: but there are a couple of ways you can get
Speaker 1: into the brand. I'm talking about something like the Ferrari
Speaker 1: f F, which we kind of touched on.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I love I love it plus two.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a two plus, it's got a V twelve engine,
Speaker 1: it's it's got all the making exactly of what makes
Speaker 1: a great Ferrari a great Ferrari.
Speaker 4: It's unexpensed manual, no manual option no, and.
Speaker 3: That's a shame unfortunately.
Speaker 2: I wonder why the people at Ferrari put that to bed.
Speaker 2: I mean, wouldn't you love to have a gated shifter,
Speaker 2: even in a new Ferrari.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, I think you would.
Speaker 1: And what I hear from analysts who talk about the
Speaker 1: collecting market is the reason why the FF is growing
Speaker 1: in popularity is because it's easy to drive, and a
Speaker 1: lot of the younger buyers that don't want to mess
Speaker 1: around with gated shifters that you know, there's more to break,
Speaker 1: there's more to go wrong. You know, it's not as
Speaker 1: fun and easy and care free to drive in traffic.
Speaker 1: So that's actually what I hear is that's working in
Speaker 1: its advantage in terms of attracting.
Speaker 2: So the FF is easier to drive. I can't imagine
Speaker 2: a Ferrari Dno. Is that difficult to drive because I
Speaker 2: think of it as a smaller car. I mean it
Speaker 2: was a smaller car.
Speaker 1: Right, absolutely, This was the V six Ferrari that actually
Speaker 1: wasn't It didn't get a lot of respect back in
Speaker 1: the day. Of course, it was famously named after Enzo's
Speaker 1: son who died, and it didn't get respect. It was
Speaker 1: like kind of seen as not a real ferrari. But
Speaker 1: this is another example of dinos are going to be
Speaker 1: a lot less expensive than the two fifty racing ferraris
Speaker 1: from back in the sixties and fifties, so it's another opportunity. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're kind of expensive now, but they probably will still
Speaker 1: continue to gain value.
Speaker 2: So an ff, I mean I've been looking, so I
Speaker 2: know that you can get into them for less than
Speaker 2: one hundred thousand, but it's going to be around that
Speaker 2: mark for a good one, right, a little mileage well
Speaker 2: taken care of, maybe a one owner vehicle. In terms
Speaker 2: of the Dino, what kind of price are you talking
Speaker 2: about because it's from the from the seventies, right, So
Speaker 2: you're not going to probably find a one owner vehicle
Speaker 2: and I can't. They're not going to be a million dollars,
Speaker 2: but they still are probably going to be one hundred grand.
Speaker 3: I think they're closer to a half million dollars.
Speaker 1: I'm looking right now on Haggarty Won in good condition
Speaker 1: is four hundred and seventy thousand.
Speaker 3: That's the average price.
Speaker 1: So we're still this is all still very rare air. Yes,
Speaker 1: you know, a half again, like we're not talking about
Speaker 1: cheap buys. We're talking about buys that will probably still
Speaker 1: gain a little bit in value. So if you invest
Speaker 1: a half a million year, you might make a little
Speaker 1: bit on that, But there are a lot of cheaper
Speaker 1: things that if you have an open mind. Now I
Speaker 1: know we want to talk about Portia.
Speaker 3: I don't really think.
Speaker 2: That, you know, by the way, just I'll interject that
Speaker 2: I think the dino I'm looking at the picture in
Speaker 2: your story kind of looks like a nine oh four
Speaker 2: a little bit.
Speaker 4: Do you get that vibe?
Speaker 3: Totally yeah, And I think it looks awesome.
Speaker 1: I've always thought they looked really and the great thing
Speaker 1: about the dino, for whatever reason, they seem to have
Speaker 1: come in really interesting colors. People were a lot freer
Speaker 1: in specking them than you know, with other like a Daytona.
Speaker 1: I mean you just see red, red, red, red red
Speaker 1: for Ferrari. But with the Dino, I feel like you
Speaker 1: really see cool oranges and greens and yellows and blues,
Speaker 1: and so I like that.
Speaker 3: I think it's it's actually more interesting in a.
Speaker 2: Way, still impossible for most people to afford even consider.
Speaker 2: And it's so sad because I remember I used to
Speaker 2: I totally crushed on the Magnum Ferrari. I think it
Speaker 2: was a eight that he had came three eight or
Speaker 2: three twenty eight. But I remember when those were going
Speaker 2: for twenty five or thirty grand, and I seriously thought
Speaker 2: about getting one. I remember when a Kuntash was going
Speaker 2: for twenty five or thirty grand. Nobody wanted them.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 2: And now they're impossible to afford, even even like an
Speaker 2: E thirty nine M five, which is like, you know,
Speaker 2: an internet car lover's car is growing in value so much,
Speaker 2: even like a.
Speaker 3: A nine to thirty turbo. Those were twenty grand cars.
Speaker 4: Well that's a Steve McQueen car, that's but you.
Speaker 1: Know, fifteen years ago you could get those for twenty grand.
Speaker 1: I know somebody who got quite a few of them
Speaker 1: for twenty grand back in the day. And now they're
Speaker 1: you know, three hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 2: I actually saw yesterday on Auto trader A I think
Speaker 2: it was a early two thousands Cayman R that was
Speaker 2: one hundred thousand dollars. I mean, I know it's the
Speaker 2: R model and they didn't make a thousand of them,
Speaker 2: but still it's insane the prices.
Speaker 4: What is there that we can Okay.
Speaker 1: Let's talk let's talk a little more down to reality.
Speaker 3: Let's talk about the Ford Thunderbird.
Speaker 1: I know you like your Detroit cars, so this is,
Speaker 1: you know, from the mid sixties, and what I'm hearing
Speaker 1: is the Lincoln Continentals have become so popular, they got
Speaker 1: really expensive, and they've kind of priced.
Speaker 3: Out themselves elves.
Speaker 1: So now if people were interested in the Continental but
Speaker 1: couldn't really afford it, now maybe you should look at
Speaker 1: a Thunderbird because it's going to be a lot more affordable.
Speaker 1: You can get one for like maybe forty thousand bucks,
Speaker 1: and they're kind of from the same era. And the
Speaker 1: big theme here is be interested in cars that deliver
Speaker 1: unique experiences that's going to really serve you well, Like
Speaker 1: first you should generally just really like the car for yourself,
Speaker 1: and then second, look for something that's super unique and
Speaker 1: from a particular point in time, and the Thunderbird really
Speaker 1: accomplishes that.
Speaker 4: Well, not everybody loves any anymore.
Speaker 2: By the way, in terms of the Lincoln Continental, I
Speaker 2: bet you've mentioned this before, but there's a movie called
Speaker 2: Hit and Run.
Speaker 1: Okay, who's in it, Dak Shepherd, And oh you haven't
Speaker 1: mentioned Kristin Bell watched it.
Speaker 4: Did you watch it?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 4: Oh my god, it's so so so good.
Speaker 1: I just can't these names for me.
Speaker 3: I do like Silver Linings Playbook is one of my
Speaker 3: all time.
Speaker 2: There's a Cadillac CTSV wagon manual wagon that he drives.
Speaker 3: There's just not doing anything.
Speaker 2: There's a Corpette Z six, There's a there's a Lincoln
Speaker 2: Continental that Dax Shepherd in the movie like he and
Speaker 2: his dad restored it. It's a very good car movie,
Speaker 2: and I think it's a great movie. So I just
Speaker 2: but what I'm what I'm noticing is you're the thunderbird, right.
Speaker 4: It's the one that you don't want. You want the Continental.
Speaker 4: If I look at the bmw.
Speaker 2: M three, I want the forty six three. I don't
Speaker 2: want the E ninety two.
Speaker 1: I want the ninety two. Look it's gonna come up.
Speaker 1: This is this is the smart man's bye. You gotta
Speaker 1: just buy it and hold it and wait that like
Speaker 1: imagine the Dino that you almost bought but you didn't.
Speaker 1: This the the E ninety two in particular, you can
Speaker 1: get one for like fifty thousand. Now the rest of
Speaker 1: the BMWM three markt is gone up. You know, double
Speaker 1: digit percentages. This is the one, this is the smart one.
Speaker 2: I don't know for me. The at this point, the
Speaker 2: kidneys looked too tiny, you.
Speaker 3: Know, Oh, is that what that is? I was going
Speaker 3: to say, what do you like about it?
Speaker 2: Because now I've gotten used to the ugly, gigantic kidneys
Speaker 2: that I think they're too small, and the whole front
Speaker 2: end looks like someone pinched to it.
Speaker 1: It's just like women's bodies. You know, I'm not going there,
Speaker 1: I will go there. It's like, this reminds me of
Speaker 1: heroin Chic when everyone said Kate Moss was too small
Speaker 1: because she came up the supermodels were these like voluptuous women,
Speaker 1: and then we go down to Kate Moss and now
Speaker 1: we're back in the Kardashian era. It's all relative, you know,
Speaker 1: it's all like, whatever is the trend.
Speaker 4: Is Let's say hemlines, Let's say hemlines.
Speaker 3: Who has a heavy.
Speaker 2: Let's let's all right, let's talk about the Porsche that
Speaker 2: you drove, because I also want to get into Porschas
Speaker 2: that are still possible to buy for regular people.
Speaker 4: But the one you drove looked awesome.
Speaker 2: I saw your pictures on Instagram and they tore out
Speaker 2: obviously the interior and they made it into it's a
Speaker 2: race like an off road race vehicle.
Speaker 1: Right, yes, yes, So I have to be really careful
Speaker 1: because I cannot give driving impressions of this vehicle until
Speaker 1: next Tuesday, and that is when our actual coverage will
Speaker 1: come out, so look forward to that.
Speaker 4: But just what is it?
Speaker 3: Yeah, the car, the car itself.
Speaker 1: Is named Edith, and it's based on a nine to
Speaker 1: eleven and nine to nine to two Kara four s
Speaker 1: that Porsche basically Frankenstein into a rock crawler.
Speaker 3: This is not a nine to eleven de car.
Speaker 1: This is not some Safari Baja style nine to eleven
Speaker 1: that goes fast over sand. This is a rock crawler
Speaker 1: max speed sixty miles an hour, seven speed manual. And
Speaker 1: you can barely even move forward in first gear. I
Speaker 1: mean you could really you can really start the car
Speaker 1: in second gear and be fine. So this is this
Speaker 1: is about going slow over very very very rough, uneven terrain.
Speaker 1: And this is the car that they claim the world
Speaker 1: record for the highest altitude cross by a vehicle. This
Speaker 1: wasn't on a mountain in Chili. Now that record has
Speaker 1: not been certified by Guinness. Their Porsche is working to
Speaker 1: have it sort of certified. It's unclear to me why
Speaker 1: they didn't do that preemptively. Yeah, that will be discussed
Speaker 1: in further detail in my piece, but they're gonna call
Speaker 1: it a world record now. And the car itself looks
Speaker 1: so cool.
Speaker 4: It does look awesome.
Speaker 2: So it's made for like maximum articulation exactly, you know,
Speaker 2: pulling power exactly.
Speaker 1: And they even pulled some of the actual components from
Speaker 1: the nine to nineteen that they had developed back in
Speaker 1: the day for that race car and actually never used.
Speaker 1: So they're pulling old stuff to build this build on
Speaker 1: top of this nine nine to two career. For us,
Speaker 1: it's a very cool idea. They're not selling them, they're
Speaker 1: not making anymore. It's a one of one thing that
Speaker 1: they just wanted to do to get the record. And yeah,
Speaker 1: I all right, so say much.
Speaker 2: Well, no, no, you do not to say much more about it,
Speaker 2: but I will say when I looked at your instat
Speaker 2: Grand Posts, you know, I always complain about the fact
Speaker 2: that the the car is so expensive and unattainable, even
Speaker 2: though it's like that would be the perfect commuting Porsche
Speaker 2: for many people who live in cities like this.
Speaker 4: Yes, and I'm sure like that.
Speaker 2: And I looked at your pictures and thought, oh, you
Speaker 2: just safari your own like Matt Farra is the first
Speaker 2: one that I saw when he did that to his
Speaker 2: Do you see a lot of people doing that or yes?
Speaker 2: Is that a trend that has stuck with us or
Speaker 2: was it just a few people.
Speaker 1: In the well, it's it's a huge It's a huge trend,
Speaker 1: especially in California. I mean the to Baja like a
Speaker 1: Baja Bug or a Baja nine to eleven is not
Speaker 1: unusual at all. There's a guy out here named TJ.
Speaker 1: Russell who is building basically Baja style nine to elevens
Speaker 1: that can can go fast like the Dakar but can
Speaker 1: also rock crawl. Lee Tuttle is another one. So there
Speaker 1: are companies that will do it for you. Basically, you
Speaker 1: give them the car and then they will speck it
Speaker 1: for you and make it really capable. And yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean more people should do it. That's a great thing
Speaker 1: about Porsches. The components are so interchangeable. You can chop
Speaker 1: them up and move things around and it's kind of
Speaker 1: all the same car.
Speaker 2: But the problem is now, like if I want to
Speaker 2: buy a nine to eleven and take it to tuttle.
Speaker 4: I have to be, like, you know, a rock star
Speaker 4: or a pro wrestler.
Speaker 3: I think the wait list is a several years on them.
Speaker 2: But even to get like, can you still get an
Speaker 2: old eighties Carrera? Everyone talks about the G fifty They
Speaker 2: really want that transmission? Or can you still get like
Speaker 2: a nine to sixty four in good shape for less
Speaker 2: than you know, eighty ninety thousand dollars.
Speaker 1: No, I think those days are really over, and I
Speaker 1: do think you know again, when I spoke with I
Speaker 1: spoke with analysts from K five hundred, which is a
Speaker 1: great data firm based in Europe, among Haggardy Classic car
Speaker 1: all of those guys are saying, look, the nine to
Speaker 1: six form in particular probably will gain a little bit
Speaker 1: more value, and the nine nine toy three there's some
Speaker 1: room to grow. But already both of those are over
Speaker 1: one hundred thousand dollars models, and those are like the
Speaker 1: cheapest you could find, like the days of the turbos
Speaker 1: being twenty thousand dollars or I mean.
Speaker 3: Shoot, you used to be able to go at to.
Speaker 1: Pomona, swap meat out here in California and get like
Speaker 1: a nine to eleven t for seventy five hundred bucks
Speaker 1: on the regular.
Speaker 4: Or a nine to nine to six Turbo that was yeah.
Speaker 1: And you know they even had engines in them. These
Speaker 1: were running driving cars. And so I do really think
Speaker 1: that those days, unfortunately are over.
Speaker 2: So what do you think is the most attainable of
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess a nine nine to seven. People
Speaker 2: haven't gone crazy for those yet.
Speaker 3: Now here's the thing.
Speaker 1: I think that if you are willing to buy a
Speaker 1: high mileage nine to eleven, you can get a great deal.
Speaker 1: For instance, we at home have a nine to nine
Speaker 1: to one Turbos with over one hundred and eight thousand
Speaker 1: miles on it, and that's the daily I drove. That's
Speaker 1: what I drove here today. I drive it often. It's
Speaker 1: got one hundred and eighty thousand miles. We got it
Speaker 1: for pennies on the dollar, and that used to be
Speaker 1: the top of the line. It's at twenty fourteen. It
Speaker 1: was the top of the line.
Speaker 4: Of course. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I one time I spoke with Wolfgang Porsche and
Speaker 2: I asked him which one he would buy if you
Speaker 2: could have it?
Speaker 3: Did he say that one?
Speaker 2: He said a Turbos, And I thought it was such
Speaker 2: a boring answer, but no, I get it.
Speaker 1: I if I was going to have a new nine
Speaker 1: to eleven right now, i'd have the nine to nine
Speaker 1: two turbos, and the Daily right now is a nine
Speaker 1: to nine one.
Speaker 2: So I think the high mileage thing is interesting, and
Speaker 2: I hadn't really thought about it. Every time I look
Speaker 2: for a car, like probably everybody else, I limit the mileage.
Speaker 2: But I saw that guy Paul Kramer has a rally
Speaker 2: like a nineteen eighty six Carrera car and he apparently
Speaker 2: bought it with two hundred thousand miles on it and
Speaker 2: now has like over three hundred thousand miles on it.
Speaker 2: So do you see Porschas with like high mileage doing well?
Speaker 2: I mean, are they just reliable cars you if you
Speaker 2: take care of them.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, there's a friend. I've got a friend out
Speaker 1: in Florida who drives his three point fifty six cross
Speaker 1: country and has for years. I need to check back in,
Speaker 1: but I know he's probably in the two to three
Speaker 1: hundred thousand miles on his three five six. I don't
Speaker 1: see why it's a bad thing to me a car
Speaker 1: with super low miles. I'm like, h hasn't really been
Speaker 1: tried and tested, has it.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 3: Paul's a great guy. That green car, I think that's
Speaker 3: the one you're talking about that.
Speaker 4: He's got the Turtle LaTortuga exactly.
Speaker 1: He drives it everywhere and I think I'm actually going
Speaker 1: to see him on Saturday. He's got a little a
Speaker 1: little gathering down at his shop. But to me, high mileage,
Speaker 1: if the car has been maintained, I think the important
Speaker 1: thing is how many owners has it had? What are
Speaker 1: the maintenance records? Like where did it live? Is this
Speaker 1: car in Detroit or is it in you know, Santa Barbara.
Speaker 2: Let's move to the world of evs because you know,
Speaker 2: we've been talking about this a bunch, but I think
Speaker 2: dark clouds have really moved in here. There was massive
Speaker 2: growth in twenty twenty two annual EV sales in the
Speaker 2: US crew sixty percent. Last year they only grew forty
Speaker 2: seven percent. But in the fourth quarter of last year,
Speaker 2: EV sales only grew one point three percent, and analysts
Speaker 2: at UBS expect growth this year to only be eleven percent.
Speaker 2: So they're still growing EV sales, you know, in the
Speaker 2: US and globally, but the growth has slowed down. Drastically,
Speaker 2: and that's because I think all the rich people have
Speaker 2: bought them, you know, as a third car or an
Speaker 2: eco warrior, God bless them, have bought them to do
Speaker 2: their part. But everybody else thinks they're too expensive and
Speaker 2: you can't find a place to charge them, and they're
Speaker 2: just not convenient.
Speaker 1: It's really interesting to see, you know, you sent me
Speaker 1: a bunch of these great reporting that Bloomberg reporters have
Speaker 1: done on this topic, and it's kind of unbelievable how
Speaker 1: there's just a hard component of American consumers that are like, no,
Speaker 1: we were not considering evs.
Speaker 3: We don't want them.
Speaker 1: I think one of the reports you sent me, Matt
Speaker 1: said about half of Americans just say flat out not
Speaker 1: interested in evs.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 3: Well, and that's that's new.
Speaker 2: I thought about getting an EV for my wife. I mean,
Speaker 2: we have for our family because we want to offset
Speaker 2: the carbon footprint that my challenger creates. And there are incentives,
Speaker 2: mind you. You know, the government has taken it upon
Speaker 2: themselves to take money from taxpayers from all of us
Speaker 2: and try and subsidize this. Not just the US government, right,
Speaker 2: governments around the world are using tax payer money to
Speaker 2: try and subsidize the EV industry, so you want to
Speaker 2: do it. I look at BMW, for example, has the IX,
Speaker 2: which is ugly but cool. Yeah, but it's also expensive, right,
Speaker 2: It's eighty ninety thousand dollars to start. The X five,
Speaker 2: the gas version tried and true starts at less than
Speaker 2: seventy thousand dollars. However, if you lease it from BMW,
Speaker 2: you can lease the IX for far cheaper six hundred
Speaker 2: and ninety nine dollars a month, whereas an X five
Speaker 2: lease is over nine hundred dollars a month. So there
Speaker 2: are ways to get into them for less, which makes
Speaker 2: me think, Okay, maybe I should. I can do my
Speaker 2: part for the earth, and I'm gonna save money. But
Speaker 2: the problem is all the electrify America places around me
Speaker 2: are broken or are are full. I would have to
Speaker 2: install extra equipment at my house and give up some
Speaker 2: garage space. I don't want to do that. And then
Speaker 2: Consumer Reports recently took a survey and found that evs
Speaker 2: have eighty percent more problems than ICEE E cars.
Speaker 1: What that seems wild because evs have far fewer components.
Speaker 4: That's exactly what I thought.
Speaker 3: So that how does that even?
Speaker 1: So?
Speaker 2: The problem is all down to the battery and the
Speaker 2: ability to take a charge. That's what can Sumer reports
Speaker 2: your cell phone. It's yes, and that's the most reported
Speaker 2: problem for battery electric vehicles that even if you pull
Speaker 2: up to you know, your super charger or whatever, the
Speaker 2: battery in your car or something in between the charger
Speaker 2: and your battery isn't working well enough to charge you up.
Speaker 2: And if you had a problem with your car where
Speaker 2: you couldn't put gas in it for some reason, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: that would be no bueno.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, that's that honestly, is a terrifying scenario for me.
Speaker 1: And it's definitely even on press cars. I get so
Speaker 1: we joke about it at home. I get so anxious
Speaker 1: about like if the tank shows tank quote unquote shows
Speaker 1: a quarter or less of range, I won't drive the
Speaker 1: car because I don't believe that it's a mile to
Speaker 1: mile exact.
Speaker 2: You know it is in no, but it's not as
Speaker 2: I'll get into a car and it says, oh, you
Speaker 2: have two hundred miles of range. No, I put the
Speaker 2: pedal down, I get on the you know, sprain Brook,
Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden it says, wait, you
Speaker 2: have one hundred and twenty.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know that is honest terrifying.
Speaker 1: And the other thing is, you know, I'll take cars
Speaker 1: up Angeley's Crest up here a highway too, and when
Speaker 1: you're going uphill, clearly you use a lot more battery,
Speaker 1: especially if you're pushing it a bit. And yes, I
Speaker 1: know in my head that when I come down the
Speaker 1: breaks will regenerate some power.
Speaker 3: I know that logically, But.
Speaker 1: When I'm driving up the hill and I see I
Speaker 1: can literally just watch range dwindle in front of my eyes,
Speaker 1: it's terrifying.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I don't like it.
Speaker 2: No, I think that range anxiety that you're talking about,
Speaker 2: the fact that the charging network is terribly poor, by
Speaker 2: the way, I saw in a story, because the government
Speaker 2: is now going to give even more money I think
Speaker 2: another seven hundred million dollars to try and improve the
Speaker 2: charging infrastructure.
Speaker 4: But the first federally funded chargers.
Speaker 2: Just went into it's unbelievable use in Ohio I think
Speaker 2: in November or December in Ohio first, and then New
Speaker 2: York just now like last month, which is crazy.
Speaker 1: Too little, too late, I mean, it's Oh and the
Speaker 1: other thing that that reminds me of I saw that
Speaker 1: you know, China, I think is a really big important
Speaker 1: thing to talk about when we're talking about EV's because
Speaker 1: that's basically where everything exciting is happening with EV's. But
Speaker 1: back to your point about the government, there's still like
Speaker 1: a twenty five or twenty seven percent tariff. I'm bringing
Speaker 1: in Chinese electric vehicles into the country, which is why
Speaker 1: we don't have any Yes, and the Chinese vehicles are
Speaker 1: a lot cheaper, so potentially it would be good, they
Speaker 1: would be a lot less expensive to buy, but that
Speaker 1: with the tarifs, they're not coming here right well.
Speaker 2: Pollstar two is one that's made in China, and I've
Speaker 2: driven right here.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 4: It's interesting.
Speaker 2: Italy is now going to give another billion dollars in incentives.
Speaker 2: Car makers are asking the UK to give now multiple
Speaker 2: billion dollars in tax cuts. I think almost nine billion pounds,
Speaker 2: so well over ten billion dollars. Governments around the world
Speaker 2: continue to throw the money at this industry and really
Speaker 2: are trying to subsidize the growth of evs, but the
Speaker 2: price remains too high. An average EV costs right now
Speaker 2: is over sixty thousand dollars, which is thirteen thousand dollars
Speaker 2: more than the average cost for an IC car, and
Speaker 2: as a result, they're sitting on dealership lots now for
Speaker 2: one hundred and fourteen days at the beginning of December,
Speaker 2: compared to seventy one days for the overall auto industry,
Speaker 2: and then obviously much less for less for gas cars,
Speaker 2: and then much less for hybrids which just fly off
Speaker 2: the lots. So it's wild. It's a problem, and I
Speaker 2: just wonder, are we now in this lull? Like you know,
Speaker 2: after the dot com bubble burst, nobody wanted Amazon stock,
Speaker 2: but if you waited ten years, you were a happy camper.
Speaker 2: Is that the case you think for evs? Because we're
Speaker 2: pouring so much money into it. I talked to the
Speaker 2: CFO of Volkswagen last week and he said, we're still
Speaker 2: going to invest one hundred and thirty billion dollars in
Speaker 2: a decade to build EVS and digitalize autumn.
Speaker 4: You just can't turn that around. You know. It's a
Speaker 4: very big ship. So even if they seem.
Speaker 2: Unpopular now, maybe we get through this storm and there
Speaker 2: are clear skies ahead.
Speaker 1: Well, it seems like, you know, with the amount of
Speaker 1: money that stands to be lost if they don't take off.
Speaker 3: I mean, just look at how much.
Speaker 1: Governments are are now investing and automakers are investing in
Speaker 1: making them succeed.
Speaker 4: You're right.
Speaker 3: I mean it just seems crazy to just all of
Speaker 3: a sudden say never mind.
Speaker 4: And I just can't.
Speaker 1: You can't know you can't. And I don't think this
Speaker 1: is the quote unquote end of EV's They still they
Speaker 1: there was still growth and EV sales last year. It
Speaker 1: just wasn't as much as previous years. But there is
Speaker 1: still incremental growth. So I think we should keep that
Speaker 1: in mind. It's not like there next year they're just
Speaker 1: going to disappear way too much at stake.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I had a baby six weeks ago,
Speaker 2: and I'm not in your life.
Speaker 3: Your wife had a baby, Yes I'm not.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm not enjoying the sleepless nights and all
Speaker 2: I do is change diapers and she's crying all the time,
Speaker 2: but I can't put her back. Like it's at this
Speaker 2: point we're going forward with this child.
Speaker 3: You know, that's a genie that I think genie is
Speaker 3: out of the bottle.
Speaker 4: I think it's the same with electric cars.
Speaker 2: By the way, I will say that I'm driving the
Speaker 2: F one to fifty lightning right now.
Speaker 3: Oh, what do you think, Well, it's very fast.
Speaker 1: It's unusual that you wouldn't have mentioned it sooner in
Speaker 1: the conversation, because typically you start right off telling me
Speaker 1: about the huge trucks starving of the week. But this,
Speaker 1: this is, this is like the least excited I've seen
Speaker 1: you be about a truck.
Speaker 2: I just think it's not for me. Let's say, I'd
Speaker 2: rather have a gas version. I'd much rather have a
Speaker 2: big diesel motor in there.
Speaker 3: It sounds like you're kind of bored with it.
Speaker 2: It's just, yeah, it's like a utility, an appliance, an appliance.
Speaker 2: I mean, sorry, it's like an appliance. It doesn't really
Speaker 2: ignite any passion in me. And I'm you know, people
Speaker 2: at my house are a little bit derisive about the
Speaker 2: size of the screen. The screen in the middle reminds
Speaker 2: me of have you seen Spaceballs?
Speaker 3: Not for about twenty years, but you.
Speaker 2: Remember dark helmet? Right, they're making fun of Darth Vader,
Speaker 2: and he has the biggest talent. It's just a ridiculously
Speaker 2: sized helmet. And that's what the screen and the like.
Speaker 2: They could have made it half the size and I
Speaker 2: still would have had just as much functionality.
Speaker 4: Out of it.
Speaker 2: I just it seems almost a joke. But yeah, it's
Speaker 2: it's fast, it's you know, useful.
Speaker 3: Are people nice to you on the road when you're
Speaker 3: driving it?
Speaker 4: Well, not because of the way I drive.
Speaker 3: No, So you still drive like a real joke.
Speaker 4: Well, it's so quick.
Speaker 2: I'm like, coming down here on the West Side Highway,
Speaker 2: I'm just weaving in and out of traffic.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because it's so fast.
Speaker 2: So there's that, you know, But it's still I'd rather
Speaker 2: have I'd much rather have a Super Duty with a
Speaker 2: six point seven liters power stroke. I mean, i'd rather
Speaker 2: have a Raptor, you know. Obviously I'd rather have a Bronco.
Speaker 3: Do you find that the bigger of the truck shorter
Speaker 3: the man?
Speaker 4: Oh well, I mean I'm six four.
Speaker 3: So that's why I asked you're you're an anomaly.
Speaker 2: I mean maybe I'm maybe maybe I'm making up for something.
Speaker 4: I don't know, but I just like I didn't say it.
Speaker 3: I didn't.
Speaker 4: I like big cars too, you know.
Speaker 2: That's why I look that big Bentley and the se Roles, and.
Speaker 3: I think the Bentley's are going to be popular.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, they already. By the way, you can get
Speaker 2: into those for twenty grand.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you heard it, you heard it now? Yeah,
Speaker 3: go buy him now?
Speaker 2: All right, So let's uh, let's just we've covered our
Speaker 2: three topics. Let's just cast our eyes forward to what's
Speaker 2: coming up. You've got your coverage on the Porsches coming out.
Speaker 4: What else have you.
Speaker 3: Got coverage on the Porsches coming out?
Speaker 1: We've got the Yeah, the market look for cars to
Speaker 1: buy in twenty twenty four.
Speaker 3: Next week. Actually, I will.
Speaker 1: Be in New York in a week, so I'm excited
Speaker 1: about that, so I'll come see you. And then I'm
Speaker 1: going to the Retromobile show in Paris, which I'll bet
Speaker 1: there are a couple auctions there.
Speaker 4: So wait, what is different retromobile?
Speaker 3: What is retromobile?
Speaker 1: This is an annual car show in Paris, and I
Speaker 1: haven't been since before COVID, so I'm really curious to go.
Speaker 1: It's it's just like a beautiful old car show and
Speaker 1: it's typically held inside, which is great because it is February. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then you know, I'm going to be looking in
Speaker 1: terms of stories. There is an interesting thing heating up
Speaker 1: in Florida in March. I'm going to be reporting about
Speaker 1: how Amelia Island which is the standard car concor then
Speaker 1: will sort of be going up against this new thing
Speaker 1: called Moda Miami that arms Southeby's is putting on so
Speaker 1: we can get into that lab. But that's something that
Speaker 1: else that's also on my horizon.
Speaker 2: All right, very cool, I got you. I'm going to
Speaker 2: be driving the Jaguar F Pace SVR. I almost forgot
Speaker 2: about Jaguar as a brand entirely. Yeah, I know, but
Speaker 2: it'll be interesting to drive that vehicle because I'm sure
Speaker 2: it'll be great. You know, it's expensive, and when they're expensive,
Speaker 2: they're usually fun. My interest in the brand has been
Speaker 2: kind of reignited a little bit in Jag.
Speaker 4: Yeah, why is that? I've just heard more and more
Speaker 4: about older Jags like XGS.
Speaker 2: Doing a thing with TWR and a buddy of mine
Speaker 2: bought XJ six That is pretty cool.
Speaker 4: And it was like almost free how much you paid
Speaker 4: for it?
Speaker 2: And speaking of, you know, the potential growth in cars,
Speaker 2: I feel like that's a brand a lot of people
Speaker 2: have forgotten about.
Speaker 4: And they had some really cool designs.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, they had the coolest designs.
Speaker 1: We used to have a couple E types and I
Speaker 1: would drive that E type back and forth to Sunset Tower,
Speaker 1: and it was kind of awesome because it's so low
Speaker 1: to the ground. The cabin is tiny, and if you've
Speaker 1: ever driven a goal Wing Mercedes, it's basically I have
Speaker 1: basically this same feel.
Speaker 3: But a lot less expensive. So here's another.
Speaker 1: If you like the going but you can't spend a
Speaker 1: few million dollars, you can get into an E type
Speaker 1: which has sort of the same feel in almost the
Speaker 1: same body shape. But yeah, I mean the ex the
Speaker 1: jags from the like eighties and nineties, they could be
Speaker 1: cool again, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I don't know if this is inappropriate,
Speaker 2: but I'm looking at you. I'm thinking about Tawny Katain.
Speaker 2: Remember Tonnyktas she was in like a white Snake video
Speaker 2: on top of a jag and she had the hair.
Speaker 3: I gotta look her up, Tawny Katain.
Speaker 2: That does it for this episode of Hot Pursuit. A reminder,
Speaker 2: we have a new email address so you could write
Speaker 2: into us if you have any comments or questions.
Speaker 4: Hannah, what's the email address.
Speaker 1: The email address is Hot Pursuit at Bloomberg dot net.
Speaker 4: So definitely shoot us your thoughts. We'd love to hear
Speaker 4: from you.
Speaker 1: I'm Matt Miller, and I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is Bloomberg.