1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:05,600 Speaker 1: This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised. 2 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 2: The criminals as well as the victim now they are 3 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:17,760 Speaker 2: not who they pretend to be to the outside world, 4 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 2: and they have dangerous alter egos. 5 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: I'm Kate Winkler Dawson, a nonfiction author and journalism professor 6 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:33,239 Speaker 1: in Austin, Texas. I'm also the co host of the 7 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: podcast Buried Bones on Exactly Right, and throughout my career, 8 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 1: research for my many audio and book projects has taken 9 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: me around the world. On Wicked Words, I sit down 10 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:49,200 Speaker 1: with the people I've met along the way, amazing writers, journalists, filmmakers, 11 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 1: and podcasters who have investigated and reported on notorious true 12 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: crime cases. This is about the choices writers make, both 13 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: good and bad, and it's a deep dive into the 14 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: unpublished details behind their stories. For this episode of Wicked Words, 15 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:10,679 Speaker 1: we travel to India, where some of the world's most complicated, 16 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:14,679 Speaker 1: most compelling true crime stories come from. This story is 17 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 1: one of those. It's about a female grifter turned killer 18 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 1: who seduced men for money but murdered one out of fear. 19 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: The book we're talking about is called Swipe Right to Kill. 20 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: The author is a nearbon poticharia. When you are at 21 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 1: a dinner party or talking to someone and someone says, 22 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 1: tell me about your book, what's it about. What are 23 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: the major themes that you pull from this story? 24 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 2: So this at the heart is a story about aspirations, ambitions, 25 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 2: deception and greet It is about yearning for something that 26 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 2: is way out of one's league. Now, much like Icarus 27 00:01:56,840 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 2: and the Sun if you remember the story, dreaming and 28 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 2: having an ambition is good, but when it involves crime, 29 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 2: then it becomes dangerous territory. It's the story of the 30 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 2: shudest corn woman of India who used technology and the 31 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 2: lure of sex to corn over all your breath one 32 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 2: thousand men. 33 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:18,360 Speaker 1: How is that possible? I don't know how you have 34 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: that much time? 35 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, And she did it over over a period 36 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 2: of I think three years. So you know she used 37 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 2: to use, you know, leure of sex to corner of 38 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 2: a thousand men and then murdered one of them with 39 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:32,640 Speaker 2: the help of her boyfriend and an accomplice. So the 40 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:34,920 Speaker 2: book is also the way I see it. It's also 41 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 2: what fate. You know, whatever is meant to happen will 42 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 2: happen if you bout watch. 43 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 1: Your back introduce me to the victim. What was he like, 44 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 1: and you know, start building this profile of what he 45 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: wanted people to see, and then of course we find 46 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 1: out it's pretty different as we move through the story. 47 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:57,960 Speaker 2: The name of the victim is Dushian Sarma. You know, 48 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:02,119 Speaker 2: he was he was a very middle class boy who 49 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:06,360 Speaker 2: was married and had an infant child born and brought 50 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:10,239 Speaker 2: up in a very traditional Indian kind of a million 51 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 2: and a family set up, you know, still living with 52 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:16,080 Speaker 2: parents and with his wife and child in a city 53 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:19,800 Speaker 2: called Jeppur, which is one of the biggest tourist spots 54 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 2: of India. At home, he was this person who would 55 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 2: pray every day. You know, he would wake up and 56 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 2: he would do his prayers, and he had a regular 57 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 2: nine to five job. He would go, you know for 58 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 2: his work and then come back on time. He was 59 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 2: a shy boy, but the wife remembers that on the 60 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 2: day that they got engaged, suddenly he turned into this 61 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 2: Bollywood hero and went down on his knees and you know, 62 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 2: sort of proposed to her and she was really obviously, 63 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 2: you know, blown off her feet. When he's at home, 64 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 2: Dushia was very shy, very conservative, very very loving, very 65 00:03:55,720 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 2: caring person. But what the family they did not know 66 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 2: was Dushan had an alter ego, and Dushan discovered the 67 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 2: joys of online dating and social media. Somebody told him 68 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 2: about Tinder, and he realized that here was this world 69 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 2: which was way beyond his own grasp, so to speak, 70 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 2: and yet he could now aspire to have it. The 71 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:28,160 Speaker 2: exciting part was it didn't come with any responsibilities. He 72 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 2: could do what he want and be silent about it. 73 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 2: You know, what the family doesn't know is good news, 74 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 2: So he continued, So if you went to his social 75 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:40,840 Speaker 2: media profiles, here's this guy with like ray bands and 76 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 2: and you know, colorful shirts, and he's like a like 77 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 2: a hero on social media. And then you cut to 78 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 2: him back home, he's this guy, you know, with a 79 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 2: with a pillock on his brow and he's praying to 80 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 2: God and all of that. So there was two parallel 81 00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 2: lives was being led by Dushan and he sort of 82 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:04,279 Speaker 2: was enjoying this, playing this game of hide and seek, 83 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:07,840 Speaker 2: and then he made a very crucial mistake and that's 84 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 2: when things went south. 85 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:16,040 Speaker 1: Now, how many women do we know that he had 86 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: encountered before he met the woman Priya Seth Right, is 87 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 1: that how I say her name? 88 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:22,160 Speaker 2: Yeah? 89 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 1: Okay, do we know how many people he had met 90 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 1: before he needs her? 91 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 2: One of his friends made a comment to the police 92 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 2: saying that, oh, you know, he has girlfriends, but there 93 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 2: is no specific number that we know. It could be 94 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 2: two and she could have been the third, but that's 95 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:46,799 Speaker 2: just an illusion. But is she the first? Note? Otherwise 96 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 2: the friend would not have made that comment. 97 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 1: And his parents, whom he lived with, and his wife 98 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 1: nobody had a clue about any of this. 99 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:59,160 Speaker 2: No. Wow, He kept his two lives very, very separate. 100 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:03,039 Speaker 2: So even now when the case unfolded, the wife was 101 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 2: still in denial, saying that, oh, you know, you guys 102 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 2: don't know him. Well, he couldn't have done all of this. 103 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 2: So he used to work in a mining company in 104 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:18,040 Speaker 2: Jeopor itself. He was an office executive. The business land 105 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:22,720 Speaker 2: tag is something he used for his alter ego online. 106 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,279 Speaker 2: So he said that his profession as a businessman is 107 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 2: a very rich businessman from Delhi and that was the line. 108 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 2: But apart from that, I mean he used to work 109 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 2: in Jeipur. He was in a mining company. He used 110 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 2: to monitor sales even the day when he left the house. 111 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:44,159 Speaker 2: He told his parents that he was going to work 112 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 2: because the cops had caught some So there was illegal 113 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 2: mining going on of stones and riverbedstones and the cops 114 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 2: were doing these busts in Jeipur at that point of time. 115 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 2: So he borrowed his dad's car and said, listen, I'm 116 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 2: going out with because the cops have caught one of 117 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 2: my trucks. I need to negotiate with them. And then 118 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 2: he vanished. 119 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 1: Wow. 120 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 2: So he used to come back home every day and 121 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 2: he used to never step out once he entered the house, 122 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 2: so that day was an exception and his parents as 123 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 2: well as his wife said, you know, why are you 124 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 2: going out now? So then he had to invent this 125 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 2: excuse that, you know, the h the truck has been 126 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 2: caught by the cops. And it was also the night 127 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 2: when Tria had promised that they would consume their relationship. 128 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 2: She had used that as a carrot, you know the 129 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 2: donkey and the carrot story, right, so sex was the carrot. 130 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 2: They had never you know, sort of slept together in 131 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 2: all the while, so they just meet at cafes in 132 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 2: a whisper sweet nothings and then go back home. So 133 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 2: that night was the night when Pria said, Okay, tonight's 134 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 2: the night. 135 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about this. He encounters her. This happens 136 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 1: in twenty eighteen. What I remember, he encounters her in 137 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: February and he dies in May. I am amazed. I 138 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:07,240 Speaker 1: did not think this would happen in this long period. 139 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 1: When you read a stat like a thousand men in 140 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: three ish years, How did she have time? This is 141 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: the kind of a long game here. This is not 142 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 1: a you know, I hang out with this guy for 143 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 1: a couple of weeks and draw them in. This seems 144 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: like this is quite a commitment. That's just that's a 145 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: lot of time to commit to all those men. 146 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 2: So he was an accidental victim. He was at the 147 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 2: wrong place at the wrong time. They were looking for 148 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 2: a target. They were looking for a target because they 149 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 2: had they had debt to sort of wipe away. So 150 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 2: the story is told through three parallel perspectives, the criminals, 151 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 2: the victim, and subsequently that of the cops. So I'm 152 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:50,960 Speaker 2: going to lay out the story from one perspective here 153 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 2: or else it'll get confusing. So this is the story 154 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 2: as seen from the mastermind pre Asset. Pre Asset was 155 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 2: a college dropout from a very small town India to 156 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 2: the big city of Gayport and was dazzled by the 157 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 2: fast life, you know, the glitz and the glamor. The 158 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 2: equivalent would be if someone went from say Marfa, Texas 159 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 2: or Deadwood to New York City or LA and get 160 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 2: stunned by the life there. She was a great student 161 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 2: in high school. Her father was a very well respected teacher, 162 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 2: and Priya was a celebrity in the community because she 163 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 2: was so good in studies and sports and all of that. 164 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 2: She was like a big fish, but in a very 165 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 2: small pond. But she had dreams and aspirations. Pria did 166 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:39,560 Speaker 2: not want to be stuck in this small town. She 167 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 2: yearned for the big life. So when she joined college 168 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:47,079 Speaker 2: in the big city of Giport, she was made cognizant 169 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 2: of a life that was way beyond her means and grasp, 170 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 2: and she wanted to have it at all costs. Her 171 00:09:56,360 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 2: grades fell as she began smoking, drinking to parties, and 172 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 2: blowing up the stipend and the money that her dad 173 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 2: used to send her, you know, to pay rent and 174 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 2: for her living expenses every month. Priya wanted to live 175 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 2: like the rich girls she saw at college, you know, 176 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 2: who had the cars and the clamor and the designer clothes, 177 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 2: but she couldn't afford right. So one day she responded 178 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:24,959 Speaker 2: to a classified in the newspaper that promised a job 179 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 2: without any qualifications required, and it turned out to be 180 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 2: a gang that ran escort services employing college girls. So 181 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 2: she refused at first, but greed and ambition took over 182 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 2: as she realized that here was the shortcut that could 183 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 2: get her the good life. And so she started working 184 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 2: as an escort and she started earning good money, which 185 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 2: led her to now start owning the things that she 186 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 2: always was yearning for. The perfumes, the clothes. She used 187 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 2: to take trips and go for holidays, you know, flying 188 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:02,200 Speaker 2: business class to Dring only you know, a mineral water. 189 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 2: Little things that gave this girl from a very small 190 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 2: town with image that here she had arrived. But greed 191 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:13,840 Speaker 2: got the better of her and she wanted more, you know. 192 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 2: She started posting now about her own escort agency on 193 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:22,840 Speaker 2: social media and escort websites. She was working for somebody 194 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 2: now She went online, posting her phone number on all 195 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 2: escort websites and saying that she had this huge array 196 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 2: of girls to choose from, as if she was the 197 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 2: one who owned the company. So when the customer made 198 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 2: a booking, she would tell them to meet in the 199 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 2: lobby of a hotel or a public space. There the 200 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 2: customer would handle over the money and she would tell them, 201 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 2: hang on, I'm sending the girl to you, and then 202 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 2: promptly vanish with the cash. And she also tried to 203 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:59,200 Speaker 2: blackmail one of her ex boyfriends, threatening to put a 204 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 2: false case of TV on him domestic violence and then 205 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 2: told him that she was pregnant and all of that. 206 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:09,559 Speaker 2: So she was on a roll. And the customer, obviously, 207 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 2: even after being blocked, would not complain to the police 208 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:17,119 Speaker 2: because he would be a married man afraid to expose 209 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 2: his own infidelity to the family and the police. And 210 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 2: this chink in the armor is what Pria exploited with 211 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 2: over a thousand men. 212 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 1: Is sex work in India illegal, Yes, So everybody's taking 213 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 1: a risk here and so it's very I'm assuming profitable 214 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 1: for her to try to blackmail some of these men 215 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: who were married. 216 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:41,839 Speaker 2: Yes, So sometimes she four to five customers a day, 217 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 2: each of whom would pay her three hundred dollars. 218 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 1: She's giving out her personal information. How are they not 219 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 1: able to track her down or is she using burner 220 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:51,319 Speaker 1: phones or. 221 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, So she would continuously make new profiles on Tinder. 222 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 2: She would throw away the sim cut as soon as 223 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 2: the job was done. Destroy the sim cut, take a 224 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 2: new one. So there's an ex boyfriend of us who 225 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:05,680 Speaker 2: she was living in with, and the boyfriend realized that, hey, 226 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 2: this girl's a little too clinging and wanted to break 227 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 2: the relationship off. She started blackmailing him, saying, listen, if 228 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 2: you break up with me, I'm going to go to 229 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 2: the cops and tell them that you beat me up. 230 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 2: And listen, I'm also pregnant with your child. She said, 231 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 2: if you break up with me, I'll throw acid on 232 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 2: your sister's face. This harassment went on til the boyfriend 233 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 2: recorded these threats and then took it to the cops 234 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 2: and she was exposed. She was arrested, but within I 235 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 2: think two or three days, she was out. She and 236 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 2: another boyfriend tried to break into an ATAM machine and 237 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 2: they were caught, and again she was arrested, and even 238 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:49,520 Speaker 2: then they let her go on Tinder. While she's doing 239 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 2: all of this, she meets a boy called Dick shan't 240 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 2: Camera on Tinder and supposedly they fall in love and 241 00:13:57,320 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 2: then they move in together. And this is something which 242 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:02,680 Speaker 2: real sort of attracted me to. The story was here, 243 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 2: here are three individuals who want things that are way 244 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 2: beyond their means and grasp right. She wanted the good life. 245 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 2: Dushian wanted a girlfriend and know sex outside of marriage, 246 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 2: and Camera had dreams of becoming a hero. He wanted 247 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 2: to be an actor, and so he had previously ventured 248 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 2: to Mumbai, which is to be Bombay, to work in 249 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 2: the Indian film industry. Predictably, he had no talent nor 250 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 2: a godfather and soon raked up a debt of thirty 251 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 2: thousand dollars and so when the when the debtor started 252 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 2: calling up for the money, he ran away to Jaipur 253 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 2: to stay with a friend and that's when he sort 254 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 2: of met Priya online. So Bria not only got a boyfriend, 255 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 2: but one that came with his own debt. And then 256 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 2: Camra would continuously whine every day about how he needed 257 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 2: to pay off the debt or else he would be 258 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 2: in serious trouble. So meanwhile, Priya continued to hood wing. 259 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 2: So in spite of having a boyfriend, she would go 260 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 2: out to good wing these men and come back with 261 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 2: the earnings. Camara decided to stay on after he came 262 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 2: to know the truth because her money gave him the 263 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 2: good life. She was buying the you know, the the 264 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 2: cigarettes and the booze and the drugs. It was like 265 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 2: a He was a freeloader. And during this time is 266 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 2: when Priya meets a rich businessman called Dushank on Tinder 267 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 2: and she and her boyfriend hatch a plan to hold 268 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 2: him hostage in exchange for ransom, as this money would 269 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 2: help Camara erase his debt and also get some extra 270 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 2: bacon for Priya. On a designated day, she leos dushianth 271 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 2: into the apartment, where her boyfriend and an accomplice beat 272 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 2: him up and then demand ransom, only to discover that 273 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 2: Dushanth is not who he is and that is when 274 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 2: things go crazy. The brilliant Priya the mastermind, gives this 275 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 2: story or this image to camera and CAMRA's friend saying, hey, listen, 276 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 2: will kidnap him. Weited the money and then we'll let 277 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 2: him go. She knew it from the start that she 278 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 2: would have to kill it otherwise he would escape and 279 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 2: then he would report her to the cops. This is 280 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 2: something she kept to herself, even in the testimonial that 281 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 2: Camarra gave. It came as a surprise to them as well. 282 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 2: Now Camra could be lying and they had the intention 283 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 2: of killing him anyways. So what happened is they got in, 284 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 2: they said, okay, we're going to ask money. Dushian panicked 285 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 2: and said, hey, listen, I am not who you think 286 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 2: I am. They started checking his cards from his wallet, 287 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 2: so you know, the social Security number, card, all of that, 288 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 2: and they said, you're not Vivan, because Vivan is the 289 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 2: name that he had given, saying, no, where is Vivan, 290 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 2: And he said, there is no Vivan. This is me Dushan, 291 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 2: who was pretending to be Vivan, and they just panicked. 292 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 2: Because you've got to understand Priya as a character was 293 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:11,719 Speaker 2: always she was an entitled brat because she was so 294 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 2: good in her studies and all of that. Everybody sort 295 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:18,719 Speaker 2: of tampered her. As a kid. She was the celebrity 296 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:21,880 Speaker 2: in her little town and her little community. So when 297 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:24,440 Speaker 2: she came into this big, bad world, she was a nobody. 298 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:28,400 Speaker 2: Nobody paid her attention. Like it's like saying, oh, I'm 299 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:32,200 Speaker 2: a gold medalist in Deadwood and then you suddenly turn 300 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 2: up at the National Games and you're nowhere there. So 301 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 2: she was used to getting things and now she felt 302 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 2: that Dushian had outsmarted her. So Ego took a huge hit. 303 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 2: She said, I'm going to just get rid of So 304 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:50,360 Speaker 2: they started beating the shit out of him. They put 305 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:54,200 Speaker 2: a plastic bag over his head, they tried to suffocate him, 306 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 2: all of that, tortured him. They spent that one night thinking, oh, 307 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 2: now what should we do. So next month is when 308 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:03,160 Speaker 2: they made the call to the father saying we want 309 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:06,399 Speaker 2: the money. So he begged his father to save his life. 310 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 2: And they wanted ten lacks. How much would ten las be, 311 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:13,920 Speaker 2: so about twelve thousand dollars. 312 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:17,360 Speaker 1: So they were asking for twelve thousand dollars in this 313 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 1: area is a significant amount of money, so not. 314 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:22,639 Speaker 2: In the area, but for the family that they were, 315 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 2: they were very, very middle class and life savings and 316 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 2: all of that. The father then went and broke his 317 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 2: fixed deposit which he had in the bank for three lacks, 318 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:38,159 Speaker 2: which is four thousand US dollars, and he broke that 319 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:42,400 Speaker 2: and he transferred the money. And because there was some 320 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 2: paperwork pending in Dushell's account, the bank manager couldn't do 321 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 2: the transfer. That God delayed. In the meantime, the kidnapp 322 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 2: was panicked, saying that now that we've asked for the money, 323 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 2: the dad probably will go to the cops and then 324 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:01,119 Speaker 2: we'll get caught, so we might as well kill him. 325 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:05,159 Speaker 2: And they kill him. The father called back from the 326 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 2: bank saying, hey, listen, I want to talk to my 327 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:11,240 Speaker 2: son because his paperwork is pending and I need to 328 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 2: have a social Security card. And he's dead. So these 329 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:18,120 Speaker 2: guys don't know what to do. So they pull out 330 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:20,680 Speaker 2: from his phone and they send it because he had 331 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:23,359 Speaker 2: it on the phone, and click a photograph, send it 332 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:26,200 Speaker 2: across and he's already dead, and the father doesn't know, 333 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 2: and the father is running from pillar to post to 334 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 2: make the you know, the ansom money. These are little 335 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:35,920 Speaker 2: things that really got me, you know that, the two 336 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:40,680 Speaker 2: parallel stories that are happening, where you know, the father 337 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:43,639 Speaker 2: doesn't know what's happening to the son at that same time, 338 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:47,920 Speaker 2: and then they go and they buy a suitcase. By 339 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,439 Speaker 2: then they kill him. The whole house is a mess. 340 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:53,400 Speaker 2: So what they do first is they try to strangle 341 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 2: him and he doesn't die. They try to put a 342 00:19:56,640 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 2: pillow on top of his face. He doesn't die. So 343 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 2: then she gets the kitchen knife and stabs so gives 344 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:09,400 Speaker 2: it to the boyfriend. The boyfriend tells and move back. 345 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:12,919 Speaker 2: Then they do the stabbing. There were ten wounds on 346 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 2: his face and neck. He was already unconscious, so he 347 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:18,919 Speaker 2: probably didn't know he was being killed. I mean his 348 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:20,119 Speaker 2: body went into shock. 349 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:23,399 Speaker 1: Let me ask you just about the psychology of Priya 350 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 1: and these two accomplices. So you know, when I read 351 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 1: the section about his injuries both before and after he 352 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: was murdered, the torture, the different methods, it just seems like, 353 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 1: I mean, America, we would call it overkill. It seems 354 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 1: like so much anger from I don't know if it 355 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 1: was all three of them or specifically Priya. I was 356 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:52,440 Speaker 1: confused by the rage that she felt, but I guess disappointment. 357 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 1: I don't know what that would be. 358 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,200 Speaker 2: So, yeah, you're right, there was a lot of rage, 359 00:20:56,560 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 2: a lot of rage because Pria felt outsmarted. And this 360 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 2: also meant Dushel couldn't pay off his debt. So he 361 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:08,399 Speaker 2: had already built this picture in his head saying, oh, 362 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 2: I'm going to pay off my debt and I'm going 363 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 2: to be debt free, and then everything just turned around. 364 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 2: So there was a huge amount of rage that was there. 365 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 2: I saw the photographs of Dushelt's copse when they found 366 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 2: it in the suitcase, and it's it's tragic when you 367 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 2: when you see his face and then you see what 368 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 2: they've done to him, it's it's horrible. 369 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 1: Did they receive the money as they were trying to 370 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,119 Speaker 1: figure out how to dispose of his body? Because you 371 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 1: mentioned a suitcase and you also mentioned that his father 372 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 1: had started the process of wiring money out right. 373 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:47,680 Speaker 2: You've got to understand Pria's mental accumul I think that's 374 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:52,160 Speaker 2: the right world. She's a smart cookie. Like if you've okay, 375 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 2: you've taken me hostage, right, and you call up my 376 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 2: family and say, listen, I need ten thousand dollars and 377 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 2: say my father tells you, you know, I can't give 378 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 2: that money to you. We don't have that much money, 379 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:08,639 Speaker 2: you would probably say, oh shit, they are poor. What 380 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:12,200 Speaker 2: did she catch on to the sentence was we don't 381 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:15,639 Speaker 2: have that much money, therefore, how much money can you 382 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 2: give me? She turned that entire thinging she read it 383 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:23,399 Speaker 2: to that situation of that little sentence saying we can't 384 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 2: give you that much money. So which means that they 385 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:30,199 Speaker 2: had some amount of money, so she was wanting to 386 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:34,120 Speaker 2: get her hand on that amount as well. Wow, so 387 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:36,440 Speaker 2: they got rid of the body she got. They get 388 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 2: a text message on Dushan's phone saying transfer has been done, 389 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 2: and then this switch off and the father's left bewildered, 390 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 2: thinking I've just made the transfer. Before disconnecting, she abused 391 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:54,160 Speaker 2: the father saying give me the rest of the money 392 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 2: by the evening or we'll kill in. You know, I'm disconnected, 393 00:22:57,560 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 2: And then of course the cops got into it by 394 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 2: the time, and then the sort of the chase began. 395 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,960 Speaker 1: So they called the police win as soon as they 396 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 1: receive the first ransom call okay, and the police are 397 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,959 Speaker 1: encouraging them to go through with this and do the 398 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:19,120 Speaker 1: money and all of that, or what's the game plan 399 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:19,880 Speaker 1: for the police. 400 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 2: So Duscian's father gets the phone call, rushes up to 401 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,679 Speaker 2: the bank. A cousin of Duscian's goes to the police 402 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 2: station to laudge the complaint. The cops speaks to the 403 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:35,119 Speaker 2: father on the phone saying I need more details. The 404 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 2: father says, don't bother me now, I need to transfer 405 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:42,440 Speaker 2: the money to to save my son. I will speak 406 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 2: to you in detail when I'm done with this. In 407 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:50,680 Speaker 2: the meantime, the cops put Ducian's phone on track. They 408 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,359 Speaker 2: start in a sort of following the call records and 409 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,480 Speaker 2: all of that. They start getting the call data records 410 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,679 Speaker 2: from the previous day. So what happens is when the 411 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 2: cops sort of say, okay, I'm going to put Alex's 412 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:06,679 Speaker 2: phone on track, which means that all calls like as 413 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 2: soon as it's used. Then the cops know, right because 414 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:13,400 Speaker 2: they're they're the IMEI numbers. So even if you change 415 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:18,119 Speaker 2: your SIM card, the IMEI number of your phone remains 416 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:20,679 Speaker 2: the same. So that's the identification. 417 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 1: Oh it's interesting, I had not. I didn't know that. 418 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 1: So you learn stuff all the time from your book. 419 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 2: Okay, how to get away from the cops. 420 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:29,879 Speaker 1: Or not in this case. 421 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 2: Not in this case. So the phone is put on track, 422 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:38,119 Speaker 2: they get the previous day's call records. The cops start 423 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 2: talking to the friends and to the numbers that dushan 424 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:44,400 Speaker 2: Hat called up, and they start sort of getting closer 425 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:48,439 Speaker 2: and closer, sort of piecing the puzzle together. One of 426 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,679 Speaker 2: the friends say, oh, you know, I heard that he 427 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,439 Speaker 2: used to have he has a girlfriend in this area. 428 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:58,040 Speaker 2: And the cops sort of says okay, And then when 429 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:02,879 Speaker 2: Priya and her boyfriend make an ATM withdrawal from that 430 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:07,880 Speaker 2: same area, the bank gives alert to the cops, so 431 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,199 Speaker 2: they know, oh shit, that guy said the girlfriend is 432 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 2: in that area. The bank ATM is in that area, 433 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 2: which means they are nearby. Let's go, and they go 434 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 2: to the area now in the morning. When they went 435 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 2: to sort of dispose the body, they also bought a 436 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 2: false a fake registration plate for the car they were 437 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,439 Speaker 2: by the way. They were using Dushan's own car, so 438 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,200 Speaker 2: they dumped the body in his own car, took it around. 439 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:40,919 Speaker 2: They filled gas at one point of time because they 440 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,479 Speaker 2: realized that the gas was getting over, they stopped at 441 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,360 Speaker 2: a patrol pump. We call it patrol pump in in there, 442 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 2: you can. We call it gas. 443 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:49,920 Speaker 1: Station gas station. Yeah, we're good. 444 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, for the American audience, it's gas station. So they 445 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,200 Speaker 2: halted at a gas station and bang opposite the gas 446 00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:00,560 Speaker 2: station was this guy who made you know, number for 447 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,400 Speaker 2: cars in the fancy number plates and all of that. 448 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 2: So they bought a fake number plate from him, thinking that, oh, 449 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,680 Speaker 2: we'll replace the number plate the real number plate on 450 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:16,359 Speaker 2: Tusian's cars with the cops won't be able to catch us. Now, 451 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,919 Speaker 2: that's one of the things that sort of they screw 452 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,959 Speaker 2: up on and which then sort of leads the cops 453 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 2: to find them. So it was again they panicked in 454 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,000 Speaker 2: a sense, once they had gotten rid of the body. 455 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,879 Speaker 2: By the way, these guys had no clue that the 456 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,359 Speaker 2: cops had found the body because they weren't watching news 457 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 2: or anything. So they were in the house and one 458 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,879 Speaker 2: of them said, in panic, we'll get caught sitting in 459 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 2: the house because the cops will come and find us here, 460 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 2: not realizing that the cops had no clue. There was nothing. 461 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 2: There was nothing to actually pinpoint the house in which 462 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,159 Speaker 2: they were staying. There was a dead man. There was 463 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 2: roughly one guy who had said, oh, this was the area, 464 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 2: but we're talking thousands of houses, right, one hundred thousand 465 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 2: houses in that area. There was no way the cops 466 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 2: could actually pinpoint to their location. They could have stayed 467 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,159 Speaker 2: hidden for the next one week, and they could have 468 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 2: withdrawn money from different ATMs from across the city so 469 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 2: that their location is not compromise. Now I'm thinking like 470 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,080 Speaker 2: a criminal, Yeah you are, but that's what I thought 471 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,359 Speaker 2: you know, how stupid of them, because they panicked and 472 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 2: they came out of the house and got into the 473 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 2: car and sat. So there was a major railway station 474 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 2: ten minutes from where they lived. One of the plans 475 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 2: was to drive to the station, get onto any train 476 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 2: and get the hell out of Jaipurt. But they didn't. 477 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,320 Speaker 2: The boyfriend had said, oh, I'm going to change the 478 00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:02,200 Speaker 2: license plate of the car, slept off, and next day 479 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 2: the cops. The only clue that the cops had was 480 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 2: the number plate of the car. That was the only 481 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:13,639 Speaker 2: definitive clue that they had, right and ATM where they 482 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 2: withdrew from. The money from there already left from there, 483 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,359 Speaker 2: so there was no way they could reach there on time. 484 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:24,800 Speaker 2: But they knew that this was the number plate, and informant, 485 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:28,679 Speaker 2: the police informant, you know, you have these informers like 486 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 2: Sherlock Holmes had, you know, his Baker Street gang, right, 487 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:38,120 Speaker 2: So informers sort of called up the cop and said, hey, listen, 488 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 2: we've spotted a car with the same registration number in 489 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,760 Speaker 2: this area. And again that area, which is called Bajaj 490 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 2: Nagger sort of tallied saying, oh, the girlfriend was in 491 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 2: Bajar Nagger. Atm wouldraw in Bajar Nagger. Car cited in 492 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 2: Bajar Nagger. They are there, and so the cops rushed 493 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 2: over there and the cars sitting on the side of 494 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 2: the road and they could figure two or three people 495 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 2: sitting inside. They surrounded the car, they knocked, rolled the 496 00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:14,720 Speaker 2: window down, and immediately the investigating officer he put his 497 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:19,320 Speaker 2: hand in the keys so that they couldn't run, and said, 498 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 2: you know whose car is this? And they said, oh, 499 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 2: you know, it belongs to a friend of mine. So 500 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,960 Speaker 2: they said cost So where is your friend? They said, oh, 501 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 2: you know, we had a fight and all of that, 502 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:33,880 Speaker 2: and then one of them broke down and said, we 503 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 2: are the people who you're looking for. 504 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:40,280 Speaker 1: She made a poor choice and accomplices. I'm assuming she 505 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 1: had gotten away with so much up until now, I 506 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 1: mean years of grifting and and extorting and threatening and 507 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 1: getting out of it. So the police bring them to 508 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 1: the station and does anybody turn on each other? 509 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, of. 510 00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 1: Course, there you go. I mean, the more people you 511 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 1: have in a conspiracy, the better that you ants is 512 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 1: going to be. They're going to turn on each other. 513 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 2: So when the police arrest them, at that point of time, 514 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 2: the cop who's arrested them only know about this one case, 515 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:12,800 Speaker 2: which is the murder. And they confess and all of that, 516 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 2: and of course, the boyfriend said, it's Pria who sort 517 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:18,960 Speaker 2: of made them do it. Priah says, no, no, it's 518 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 2: my boyfriend who forced me to do it. And then 519 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 2: the third friend says, oh, no, no, I was innocent. 520 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 2: It was them, those two who forced me to take part. 521 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:31,480 Speaker 2: So they start, obviously, they started blaming each other. And 522 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 2: at that point of time, all they knew was that 523 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,680 Speaker 2: this murder had been committed. So then they went back 524 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 2: to the house. Immediately they saw the house and they 525 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:44,840 Speaker 2: knew it was filled with blood. They had tried to 526 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,840 Speaker 2: clean it, but the mattress was soaked with blood. It 527 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 2: was red in color, and blood had seat through the 528 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:56,080 Speaker 2: mattress and got into the wooden bed on the floor, 529 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,080 Speaker 2: and in the wash basin and all of that, and 530 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 2: then in the sink wash basin for India, sink for America. 531 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 2: When this news hit air on television channels saying oh, 532 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 2: this this is the girl that's been caught with the murder, 533 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 2: different police stations started calling the cop ops saying, hey, listen, 534 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 2: we've got a case against her. Oh right, I'd say, Oh, 535 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 2: she tried to blackmail her boyfriend. Oh, she's the one 536 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 2: who's tried to break into the atm. Oh she was 537 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 2: the one who's been calling people on Tinder. So suddenly 538 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:34,600 Speaker 2: the provenance you know, sort of came through, you know, 539 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 2: it just fell. And that's when the cops realized that 540 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:42,200 Speaker 2: they were not just dealing with a murderer, but an 541 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:43,760 Speaker 2: extraordinary criminal. 542 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:47,720 Speaker 1: Wow, what is her reaction? I mean, really, So. 543 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 2: There was a female journalist who got access to her, 544 00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 2: I think about a month after she was arrested. She said, 545 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 2: I was doing social work. I was not calling people. 546 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,560 Speaker 2: I was doing social work because I was punishing married 547 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:05,200 Speaker 2: men who wanted to stray. Okay, so I was doing 548 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 2: social work. 549 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:07,440 Speaker 1: That's a smart argument. 550 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 2: So her what sense of justice? In her head? She 551 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 2: had the savior complex, right, and of course she thought 552 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 2: she was superior to everybody else, and so this is 553 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:22,120 Speaker 2: how she justified it in her head, and she saw 554 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,440 Speaker 2: no wrong. You know, at one point of time in 555 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,120 Speaker 2: the video you will see in which I talk about 556 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:32,000 Speaker 2: the body language of Ria said during that interview, So 557 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:36,280 Speaker 2: the journalist asks her, oh, what you know that knife 558 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,320 Speaker 2: which you used on Dushan, where did you get it from? 559 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,760 Speaker 2: And she slips saying, oh, I should have used that 560 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,880 Speaker 2: knife for my ex boyfriend and killed him too. You 561 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:49,720 Speaker 2: know the fact that she thinks she can get away 562 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,400 Speaker 2: with it because she has gotten away all these times 563 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,480 Speaker 2: and she wasn't going to get away this time. So yeah, 564 00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:01,000 Speaker 2: So when you study that video and it's in you 565 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,680 Speaker 2: see her body language and she smiles to the camera 566 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 2: as if she is not bothered. 567 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:07,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, she says. Oh. 568 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 2: She starts up the interview saying, oh, when I look 569 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:13,280 Speaker 2: at cameras these days, I feel like breaking, you know, 570 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 2: as if she's like a you know, celebrity talking to 571 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:20,280 Speaker 2: a paparazzi. So yeah, then that's what happened. And she 572 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:25,000 Speaker 2: got caught along with her boyfriend, and immediately the three 573 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 2: of them had three separate lawyers. Each one hired their 574 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 2: own lawyer. They didn't want her her punishment to come 575 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:35,200 Speaker 2: on to you know them as well. 576 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 1: I don't know what the statistics are in India. In 577 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 1: the United States, I've read that criminal cases probably eighty 578 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,320 Speaker 1: to ninety percent are settled with plea deals. Is that 579 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,040 Speaker 1: the case in India also, or do they tend to 580 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:50,400 Speaker 1: take these to trial. 581 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, okay, no trying, absolute trial, absolutely 582 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:57,640 Speaker 2: try And this is a rarest of rare case. Cold 583 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:02,000 Speaker 2: blooded murder. Twenty twenty three November is when the final 584 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:08,719 Speaker 2: conviction happened. Okay, So we're talking about five years, So 585 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,279 Speaker 2: the legal process is a little slow in India. We 586 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:15,000 Speaker 2: have lots of pending cases in court, so it took 587 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 2: five years for them to sort of come around. They 588 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:21,760 Speaker 2: had lots of hearings in between. And also what happened 589 00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:25,640 Speaker 2: is in India it is you're innocent until you're proven guilty. 590 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:29,600 Speaker 2: So the cops have to build a watertight case. 591 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:31,800 Speaker 1: And they did in this case. Right, there's a lot. 592 00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:34,640 Speaker 1: So ultimately, what ends up happening to the three of them, 593 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:38,319 Speaker 1: I know they have three different trials or three different attorneys. 594 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:39,839 Speaker 2: So life imprisonment, okay. 595 00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:42,440 Speaker 1: No hope for parole with any of them, no, okay. 596 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:46,880 Speaker 1: What was Priya's reaction when the sentence was handed down. 597 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 2: On the day the final sentence happened, I don't think 598 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:51,960 Speaker 2: she'd come to court. I think only one of them 599 00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:55,719 Speaker 2: had come to court, but I'm quite sure she would 600 00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:58,160 Speaker 2: have said, well I don't deserve this. She would have 601 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:00,759 Speaker 2: cooked up some story in her head to justify her 602 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 2: own actions and made herself feel the victim. 603 00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,240 Speaker 1: This must have been, you know, I mean, it's obvious 604 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,680 Speaker 1: with Duchan's family, how horrifying that must have been, this 605 00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:12,919 Speaker 1: whole experience. But her family, I was just thinking about. 606 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,359 Speaker 1: You know, you said her father was sending her a 607 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:17,640 Speaker 1: stipend to pay for bills and stuff, he sent her 608 00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:21,239 Speaker 1: to university, you know, all this, and it just must 609 00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:23,680 Speaker 1: have been devastating for her family. Also, did she have 610 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:25,080 Speaker 1: any kind of support from them. 611 00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:31,360 Speaker 2: So her father's a teacher, professor, a very well respected man, awful, 612 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:35,240 Speaker 2: and he had dreams for this daughter. And it wasn't 613 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 2: that she wasn't smart. She was not a fabulous student. 614 00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:42,600 Speaker 2: She was an A grade student. So the father obviously 615 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,440 Speaker 2: had sort of chalked out a future for her, had 616 00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,840 Speaker 2: seen it happen, had manifested that when she went to college, 617 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:53,399 Speaker 2: he was supporting her. She started failing in college, and 618 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,759 Speaker 2: then she got into that company, and that's when the 619 00:35:55,840 --> 00:36:00,160 Speaker 2: father sort of came to know about her shenanigans and 620 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:04,480 Speaker 2: stopped paying the stipend and sot disolder, saying till you 621 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,680 Speaker 2: get your you know things right, I'm not going to 622 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,640 Speaker 2: give you the money or support you, which again would 623 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:13,000 Speaker 2: have helped her to play the victim card again in 624 00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:15,759 Speaker 2: her own head. Right, Oh my god, you know the 625 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,560 Speaker 2: world is against me. Her sister was the only one 626 00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 2: she was in touch with her younger sister, and at 627 00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:24,920 Speaker 2: one point of time, Tria had mentioned to the sister saying, 628 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:28,880 Speaker 2: I'm going to marry Dickshan Kamra because I love him. 629 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:31,759 Speaker 2: The sister had said he's not the right guy for you, 630 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:34,520 Speaker 2: and again she felt spited, saying, oh, you guys are 631 00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:38,439 Speaker 2: always against me. You never want my kind of a 632 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 2: conversation in the basta. I think during the trial, I 633 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:45,560 Speaker 2: don't know whether her parents came and would have come 634 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:48,279 Speaker 2: for the initial but I don't think they wanted to 635 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:52,719 Speaker 2: be involved, and her father, being very righteous man, would 636 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:54,320 Speaker 2: have said let the law take its course. 637 00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:59,520 Speaker 1: Did Camera or the other accomplice show any remorse or 638 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:02,000 Speaker 1: anything throughout this? None of them had remorse. 639 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:07,120 Speaker 2: So again CAMRA's father again is another teacher, I think 640 00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 2: luxious mother. By the time all of this happened, his 641 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:14,360 Speaker 2: father passed away and she had sent Luxure, which is 642 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:18,800 Speaker 2: the third guy, which is Comra's childhood friend, to college 643 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,720 Speaker 2: with her life savings, thinking that once he gets educated, 644 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:23,319 Speaker 2: he's going to get a job and he's going to 645 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:25,880 Speaker 2: be the support system for the family because she's a 646 00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:29,720 Speaker 2: single mom. And here he was got embroiled in a murder, 647 00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:34,600 Speaker 2: so you know, now she's helpless. Remorse. I guess there 648 00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:38,719 Speaker 2: would have been some remorse, but it's too late now. 649 00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:41,640 Speaker 2: Like in my book, when I was writing it, I 650 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 2: came to a point where I said, Okay, Now, if 651 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:49,319 Speaker 2: I was the criminal, I had these two routes to take. 652 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:52,799 Speaker 2: Which is I would I'd said. At one point of time, 653 00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:57,400 Speaker 2: Lucian tells the kidnappers saying, listen, if my dad can't 654 00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:59,360 Speaker 2: get you the money, let me go and meet my 655 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:02,879 Speaker 2: friends and I will collect the money from them and 656 00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:05,680 Speaker 2: come back to you. So they mistrust him, saying, oh, 657 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:08,000 Speaker 2: you're going to run away. If I was preer, I 658 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:10,560 Speaker 2: would have said, okay, Dick, shan't go with this guy. 659 00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:13,799 Speaker 2: He's got the car, go get the money, come back. 660 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:18,000 Speaker 2: I wouldn't have resorted to murder. And again, they don't 661 00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:21,000 Speaker 2: know the law, so I guess I think it's for kidnapping. 662 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:25,320 Speaker 2: It's seven years. They could have been caught serf seven 663 00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,520 Speaker 2: years and that's it. They didn't need to kill him. 664 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:33,600 Speaker 1: What happens with Duchant's wife and infant child is everything 665 00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:35,560 Speaker 1: okay with them now. 666 00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:41,280 Speaker 2: They've come to terms with it, And also the November conviction, 667 00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,760 Speaker 2: the final conviction, has sort of given them a sense 668 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,640 Speaker 2: of justice. They have been put away for life and 669 00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:50,440 Speaker 2: they will not be able to come out. But you 670 00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:53,640 Speaker 2: never sort of get over the loss of a loved one, 671 00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:59,360 Speaker 2: and especially when it's in circumstances as this. There's so 672 00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:02,520 Speaker 2: many questions you want to ask, why to begin with 673 00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:03,800 Speaker 2: a wife put us? Why? 674 00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:07,680 Speaker 1: What are the lessons learned from this? And how did 675 00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:09,960 Speaker 1: this story impact you? 676 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,560 Speaker 2: Never trust anything that you see online. What's your back always? 677 00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:16,399 Speaker 2: And if it is too good to be true, it 678 00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:20,640 Speaker 2: probably is. The story impacted me because hers is a 679 00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:23,080 Speaker 2: wopped mind and I had to live in her head 680 00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:26,400 Speaker 2: for a year, so it really impacted me. I belong 681 00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:30,080 Speaker 2: to gen X and we grew up in such simpler times. 682 00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:33,839 Speaker 2: You know. The advent of technology has also brought with 683 00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:36,880 Speaker 2: it dangers and the people who are exploiting it for 684 00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:40,560 Speaker 2: the wrong reasons and with devious intentions, and so this 685 00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:43,880 Speaker 2: book becomes a very important read, especially for young adults 686 00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:47,040 Speaker 2: who spend hours online. At the end of the book 687 00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:50,200 Speaker 2: is an extended portion that wants people about the dangers 688 00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:54,680 Speaker 2: of online social interaction, fate profiles and how they can 689 00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:58,520 Speaker 2: identify them, and what to guard yourself during online dating 690 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,600 Speaker 2: and also when it grabs, do its to meeting people 691 00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:02,400 Speaker 2: in the real world. 692 00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,680 Speaker 1: If you love historical true crime stories, check out the 693 00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:19,600 Speaker 1: audio versions of my books The Ghost Club, All That 694 00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:22,960 Speaker 1: Is Wicked and American Sherlock and Don't Forget. There are 695 00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:26,799 Speaker 1: twelve seasons of my historical true crime podcast, Tenfold More 696 00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:30,480 Speaker 1: Wicked right here in this podcast feed, scroll back and 697 00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:33,279 Speaker 1: give them a listen if you haven't already. This has 698 00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:37,840 Speaker 1: been an exactly right production. Our senior producer is Alexis M. Morosi. 699 00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:42,680 Speaker 1: Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain. This episode was mixed 700 00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:46,560 Speaker 1: by John Bradley. Curtis Heath is our composer, artwork by 701 00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:51,120 Speaker 1: Nick Toga. Executive produced by Georgia Hartstark, Karen Kilgarriff and 702 00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:55,560 Speaker 1: Danielle Kramer. Follow Wicked Words on Instagram at tenfold More 703 00:40:55,600 --> 00:41:02,880 Speaker 1: Wicked and on Facebook at Wicked Words pod m