1 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephane. 2 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:19,080 Speaker 1: Never told your protection of I Heart Radio. Okay, Annie, 3 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:20,919 Speaker 1: I have a question for you, and we've talked about 4 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:23,639 Speaker 1: it before, and I don't know if you actually have 5 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: one that we don't know about, but I'm still gonna ask, 6 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 1: in the deepest, darkest secrets of secrets, what is one 7 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:36,479 Speaker 1: of your true, true guilty pleasures that we your friends 8 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:39,639 Speaker 1: might not exactly know about or no folly about. How 9 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 1: you're going for the deep dark secrets? Yeah, yeah, I 10 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 1: feel I feel like I'm pretty open about my enjoyments. 11 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:56,639 Speaker 1: I know That's why I said this. I think, as 12 00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: we've recently discussed, it's not really a deep dark secret, 13 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: but perhaps it's like that I do actually read and 14 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 1: write romance, which I think is just something I was 15 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:07,679 Speaker 1: surprised by. But I was finally like, wait a minute, 16 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:13,400 Speaker 1: and my fan fiction predilections probably surprised some people because 17 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 1: I think they know the basics, they don't know the specifics. 18 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 1: So I do read like slash um even though I'm 19 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 1: there for the emotion. But I think that surprises some 20 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 1: people because they're like, wait a minute, you do so 21 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 1: against romance? Why not against it. It's just not my thing, right, 22 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 1: And then I read a lot of I read a 23 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:33,679 Speaker 1: lot of angsty things, but I read a lot of 24 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 1: like recovery. I read a lot of like healing, dramatic 25 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 1: recovery stories, which I think, I think some people when 26 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 1: I tell them I like angst, they think it's just sad, sad, sad, 27 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 1: and that's the end. But it's gotta usually it's got 28 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: some kind of like recovery healing comfort element. Again, like, 29 00:01:57,600 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: I don't think I've been super secretive about this. It's 30 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 1: just like I usually I am pretty broad, right, But 31 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 1: I did have this conversation with some of my friends 32 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 1: who read fan fiction lately, and they're like, wait, you 33 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: read that, so you surprise them. You continue to surprise. 34 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 1: I do. I do. I'll try to think of because 35 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: I'm sure there's something else. I've read some pretty dark stuff, 36 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 1: for sure. I've read some like modern a you, alternate universe, 37 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 1: serial killer stuff, which is relative to what we're talking 38 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 1: about today. I've read, say, I've read some in quotes 39 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 1: strange dark things. Yeah. I find that interesting that you automatically, 40 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:41,360 Speaker 1: when you think of guilty pleasures, you think of fan fiction, 41 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 1: no matter what no matter what, I like that for me, 42 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 1: it has some like interesting things where I have ritualistic 43 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 1: things almost but where I wake up in the morning, 44 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: I come and get my coffee, Like the first thing 45 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: I do is make coffee, go, take peaches out, come 46 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: back upstairs, and then I will sit in the dark 47 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 1: on the corner of my couch, have my coffee ready 48 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 1: to go, curl up in a ball, and just play 49 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 1: like a couple of my phone games that I really love, 50 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 1: and of course I found a new one that I'm playing, 51 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: and I'll just sit there in silence, and we'll do 52 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 1: this for a good two hours, which probably is not 53 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:17,679 Speaker 1: the greatest for being a phone addict as I am, 54 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: and I realized I've become really bad about it, but 55 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 1: that's one of my things that I do. A complete 56 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 1: silence I don't even like and I need noise to 57 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: typically distract me so that I don't feel so alone 58 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 1: or empty these moments in the morning. I don't do that. 59 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: And I was like, huh, that's an interesting, interesting thing. 60 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: But then also when I watched TV or when I 61 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 1: watched series and I watched them on repeat, y'all, I 62 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 1: think we all know this. My deep pleasure is to 63 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 1: try to find the actor and connect them to the 64 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: other episodes. So I am very quick to like look 65 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 1: up and then go down these rabbit holes of who 66 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: belongs to what, And I love it. And I don't 67 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 1: ever remember their name. I just know their face and 68 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 1: then I'm like, that's from this show, dudes from that 69 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 1: show and connecting like the universes that way. And I 70 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: don't know if that's a guilty pleasure or something that 71 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 1: I definitely do. That's like, that's weird, Okay, that's all, 72 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 1: but I love it. But then I also have other 73 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 1: like really big like I love just sitting in bed 74 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: all day, sure, just being like the other day when 75 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:24,840 Speaker 1: it was snowing here, I said, in my bed all 76 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:26,840 Speaker 1: day because it was so cold, I refused to get 77 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: out of bed and had everything around me. I ate 78 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 1: soup in my like bed everything. That's part of my 79 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 1: guilty pleasure. I also saw that was a neurodiversient thing 80 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 1: that I was like, maybe I need to go and 81 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 1: look this up, where I just kind of like, if 82 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 1: I've had overwhelming things happen, I have to stay in 83 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: my bed for a day and I'm like, huh, this 84 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 1: doesn't feel very adult ish of me. Yeah, yeah, I've 85 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: I've actually had that thought a lot lately, to where 86 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't a lot of things I do 87 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 1: don't feel adult, and then I get an argument with 88 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:01,679 Speaker 1: myself about does that matter and what does that mean? 89 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 1: And should I worry about that? So I understand I've 90 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: had I've had debates in my mind about that. I've also, 91 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:13,479 Speaker 1: I think I mentioned I've started going I have a 92 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 1: Galaxy Projector, so I have started like I'll lay in 93 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,159 Speaker 1: bed and watch the Galaxy Projector and listen to classical 94 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 1: music and read fan fiction. And that feels like the 95 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:27,919 Speaker 1: most indulgent thing I've allowed myself to do. And it 96 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 1: was so it's so nice. I'm so happy when it, 97 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 1: Like I'm like, Okay, tonight, I'm gonna devote at least 98 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:38,359 Speaker 1: one hour because I time it on the Galaxy Projector 99 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: turns off automatically, so sort of time it. But it 100 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:45,040 Speaker 1: does feel very very nice. It feels like I'm carving 101 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:49,600 Speaker 1: out a space because I'm really bad about just indulging 102 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: in a guilty pleasure. I'm I'm always like, you should 103 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:57,280 Speaker 1: be doing this right, right, So it's it's nice. I'm 104 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:00,359 Speaker 1: trying to like really carve out the space for like 105 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 1: for this one hour. Forget about that, right, it's about 106 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 1: doing this thing that you finally relaxing and really, yeah, 107 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:22,720 Speaker 1: and you know what, we do need to come back 108 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 1: and talk about why the term guilty pleasure is such 109 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: a double edged sword and it's really unfair to those 110 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: who are so busy and so caught up in being 111 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:32,600 Speaker 1: in a world of busy that we forget to take 112 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: time for ourselves, which we love. So that term in 113 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:38,719 Speaker 1: itself is really negating of what we truly need and 114 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 1: whether or not we enjoy it as long as it's 115 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 1: you know, not harming anybody, why not. But the reason 116 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:46,919 Speaker 1: that we are talking about guilty pleasures, another one of 117 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 1: my guilty pleasures has been going down the dark hole 118 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:53,720 Speaker 1: of serial killers or true crime related things like s 119 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 1: VU and criminal minds, which all play off of real 120 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 1: stories and you get a different version. But it's really 121 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 1: kind of dark in itself. And we did want to 122 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: talk about this. But first, yes, obviously we're gonna be 123 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 1: talking about a little bit of about the horrifics of 124 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 1: killing murder victims and trauma within that We're not going 125 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: to go into specific cases. We're definitely not going to 126 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 1: delve into what happened or any of those stories. We 127 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 1: are just mentioning it, so just go ahead, but that 128 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 1: at the top, And yeah, we've talked a lot about 129 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: true crime and it's overall popularity, especially for women. In fact, 130 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 1: one study shows that women make up a ground of 131 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 1: the listenership slash viewerships for this genre. So yes, women 132 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 1: are all involved. And of course we if you want 133 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 1: to hear more about that statistic, we have a couple 134 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: of episodes for you to check out. So we need 135 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: and we go all into it because it is kind 136 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 1: of fascinates I'm one of those that I'm more fascinated 137 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 1: by the why and the who more so than the 138 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 1: actual subjects. So yes, we went into that, and we 139 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 1: also mentioned the overall impact for the audience as as 140 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: well as why women are so interested in it, including 141 00:07:56,960 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 1: that many listeners they listen so they can prevent it 142 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 1: from happening to them or at least not be in 143 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 1: that situation, which obviously most of the time there's nothing 144 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: you can do about it. It It just happens to pack, 145 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 1: which is really sucky. But for me, again as to 146 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: the who are the wild I was like, there has 147 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 1: to be more to this, right, there has to be 148 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 1: more to while we are so fascinated, and specifically women, 149 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 1: while we are so caught up in this. UM. I mean, 150 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: it's been around since Jack the Ripper, so the old school, 151 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 1: old school case, which by the way, was often portrayed 152 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 1: to people through comics and drawings since many people could 153 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: not read at the time, so it was depicted and 154 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 1: told through literally, they said, comic strips is how they 155 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 1: put it. I wonder if that's why it had such 156 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:50,680 Speaker 1: a lasting impact on our culture. Maybe because those pictures 157 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: are like I know, those pictures when we think about it, 158 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 1: we see those black and white like horrible pictures. But yeah, 159 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 1: that's how it was often relayed, and the morbid fascination 160 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:03,559 Speaker 1: of has only grown as the different mediums have been 161 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 1: created to tell these stories. And it's not just stories, 162 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 1: And that's kind of what we're going to come back 163 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 1: to UM. And any one thing I've been really uh 164 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 1: personally struggling with is what about the victims. I've worked 165 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:19,200 Speaker 1: with so many victims, I've worked with so many survivors 166 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 1: who have gone through horrific abuse and trauma that that's 167 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:24,200 Speaker 1: what I know that's what I see. And I have 168 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 1: to wonder, I'm like you and I have this conversation, 169 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 1: like what about them? I wonder how they see this 170 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 1: in this perspective when we talk about it, or when 171 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 1: it's grown to be in such a popular conversation, and 172 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 1: it is almost I mean, I don't think this is 173 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,560 Speaker 1: true to all of the people who listen, but almost 174 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 1: like it's fetishized in a way. You know. Yeah, I 175 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 1: think we've we've talked about that a lot of the 176 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 1: I immediately, obviously, I think of Conjuring three, which has 177 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 1: that weird moment where it's like based on a true story, 178 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 1: but it's based on a true story and away or 179 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 1: we're supposed to, I guess, sympathized, empathized with the killer 180 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: who was possessed. But those are real people, I mean, 181 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 1: even if they dramatized it like they are real people, 182 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:17,720 Speaker 1: who are you know, perhaps encountering people's theories or thoughts 183 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:19,599 Speaker 1: about who did it and why they did it and 184 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: maybe romanticizing the aspect of it. And I I know 185 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 1: I've mentioned it before, but there was an essay I 186 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 1: read by somebody whose family had been murdered by a 187 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: serial killer and she'd seen and heard these kind of 188 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 1: documentaries and podcast about it and people kind of excited 189 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 1: to talk about it. She she was understanding, she wasn't 190 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 1: like that, but she she was saying, like it was 191 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 1: so odd to her because it actually happened to her, 192 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:51,439 Speaker 1: and how it impacted her kind of processing of things 193 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:55,559 Speaker 1: and confused her processing of things. And also it was 194 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 1: a really beautiful essay. I wish I could find it again. 195 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: But ultimately she ended up me being the serial killer 196 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 1: and kind of forgiving him, And again that's not I 197 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 1: feel like forgiveness gets thrown around is like that is 198 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 1: the best thing and it means you're a good person. 199 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:10,200 Speaker 1: I don't think it means that at all. But she 200 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:13,679 Speaker 1: was able to come to peace, like she right personally, 201 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 1: but she talked about that. She talked about the impact 202 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 1: of having people talk about it right and confuse her 203 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 1: about like motives and deserving and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, 204 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 1: and I know we want to talk about it, but 205 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 1: I think we do have a podcast on our network 206 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:31,720 Speaker 1: where the family member of a serial killer talks about 207 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 1: their experience and what they went through and the trauma 208 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 1: they went through. And I want to come back and 209 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,839 Speaker 1: revisit that because oftentimes we hear other perspective from because 210 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:42,560 Speaker 1: typically serial killers are men, are by the wife or 211 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 1: the daughters to the families, and I think it's an 212 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: interesting perspective and that we understand not humanizing them necessarily 213 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 1: the killers, but the families who also get caught up 214 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:54,559 Speaker 1: in the darkness of what is happening and they are 215 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:57,680 Speaker 1: also traumatized. But that's a whole different story. But talking 216 00:11:57,720 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 1: about as I'm thinking about what about the victims, what 217 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 1: out the victims families? Of course, there was a TikTok 218 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:06,320 Speaker 1: video that popped up into my feet. It's like, hey, Samantha, 219 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 1: you were talking about this. We know we spy. Here 220 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 1: you go. They were talking about their experience in seeing 221 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 1: this into a documentary true crime thing. Um. And it 222 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 1: was Jordan Preston who is on TikTok and her video, 223 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 1: which was kind of a part of a trend that's 224 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 1: been happening about you know, you think you can hurt me, Well, 225 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:25,559 Speaker 1: this happened to me. There's no way you can hurt me. 226 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:28,320 Speaker 1: Kind of trend that's been happening, and it's like taking 227 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 1: up kind of just taking up their own trauma and 228 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 1: be like Hey, I've been through words, you know type 229 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: of thing and disclaiming it. I guess um. But in 230 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 1: this trend, she addressed how she and her family felt 231 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 1: about an episode that was based on her sister's murder. 232 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 1: In the actual TikTok Club, it says it shows her 233 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 1: and there's a writing it says, you think you can 234 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:53,839 Speaker 1: hurt me, But Hullo just released a documentary about how 235 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 1: my sister was brutally murdered without our family's consent. And yeah, 236 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 1: that's the big question of like, what about the families? 237 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 1: Who's consenting to this? Because I've seen so many documentaries 238 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 1: where the families were not involved in talking about it. 239 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 1: Oftentimes it's just the police and it's often just like 240 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 1: found footage type of thing and recordings, and I'm like, 241 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 1: what what about them? And yeah, the big question within 242 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 1: her talking about it is, you know, I know it's 243 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:23,840 Speaker 1: not against the law, but it's it's immoral and why 244 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 1: would you do this? Is it ethical for anyone to 245 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: capitalize on something that they are not giving consent to 246 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 1: when it was so personal to them? And how do 247 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 1: we as viewers but also conscientious feminist advocates hold ourselves 248 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:41,320 Speaker 1: to a better standard when it comes to these types 249 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 1: of genres, right, Yeah, Yeah, I mean that's a good 250 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:52,400 Speaker 1: it's a good question. And I there's oh gosh, I 251 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 1: have so many thoughts about this because there's there's the 252 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 1: we talked about kind of the women who fall in 253 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 1: love with these serial killers. We talked about that. We've 254 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:05,439 Speaker 1: also talked about the women who have been impacted by 255 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 1: that and by serial killers. And I think just even 256 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:15,679 Speaker 1: the fact that this content is seemingly a majority of 257 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 1: women is are consuming it and we yeah, like you said, 258 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 1: it's a lot of experts think that's because we're facing 259 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 1: these things, are worried about these things all the time, 260 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 1: and we're trying to learn what not to do to 261 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 1: not be that person, even though it's really out of 262 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 1: your control. It's it's kind of a way to give 263 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 1: us a sense of control. It is hard because there's 264 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 1: just all these pieces that are all messy, and they 265 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: all have like multiple nuanced reasons why they're happening. Because 266 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 1: I get white people like true crime, I get white 267 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 1: people whose families are like not even getting consent and 268 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 1: having their story told that's totally legit. You would be mad, Like, 269 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 1: there's just so many pieces there's so many things that 270 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 1: play um and honestly, one of the big things about 271 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 1: this is that true crime has become a money maker, 272 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 1: which whenever we put money into this, there's so many 273 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 1: things that you automatically like, the motive is really wrong 274 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 1: in this conversation fame and money, but don't ask us 275 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 1: how much because you can't find those numbers. I cannot 276 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: quite find any of these numbers. There's a little bit 277 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 1: of debate. At one point in time, the makers of 278 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 1: Making of a Murderer, the big Netflix special that happened, uh, 279 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 1: they were getting a pretty good amount of money before 280 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 1: Joe Rogan's deal with Spotify. He was one of the 281 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: highest you know, money makers for for podcasters. They were 282 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 1: actually comparing themselves that the money they were making was 283 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 1: comparable to his amount of money as well. So that's 284 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 1: pretty high up there in itself. And then they went 285 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 1: on to try to do a second one and they 286 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 1: got a lot of backlash. So I think they stopped 287 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 1: because they were like, look, you're really really doing something 288 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 1: really ugly, and so they backed off again. Though there's 289 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: this a little bit different because they were able to 290 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: prove some concern about the validity of the Confessions, So 291 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 1: that's a whole other conversation we're gonna come back to. 292 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 1: But shows like that and shows like I Am I 293 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 1: Am a Killer, which is like one of the specials, 294 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 1: which is like a series, Confessions of a Killer, which 295 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 1: is also a little series, Uh, Tiger Key, which is 296 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 1: not necessarily series, but they have a two part second partner, 297 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 1: have made huge ways in viewerships and made networks like 298 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: Netflix and Hulu a lot of money. Again, I don't 299 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 1: know how much, because they do their subscriptions. Everything is 300 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 1: based on views. We know this, but at whose expense? 301 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: We already know that Carol Baskins, who was one of 302 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 1: the features on Tiger Keane, was not happy, was not 303 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 1: happy with how she was portrayed, and she talked about 304 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 1: she had been misled and she tried to pull out 305 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 1: of it because that she realized what was happening. They 306 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 1: were making her look really bad. I mean, for sure 307 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 1: editing in that. But then also she kind of came 308 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 1: into the limeline. She was dancing with the stars. She's 309 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 1: been featured in some music videos with some stars. Is 310 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 1: like her name is known, so she's made a little 311 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,879 Speaker 1: bit of an acclaim for herself. I think her business 312 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:07,399 Speaker 1: has gone up, even though there's like a lot of 313 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 1: questions about the validity of really, are they actually rescuing 314 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:14,400 Speaker 1: animals or are they just keeping animals in captivity? What's 315 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 1: happening type of conversation. Um, I know that she I 316 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:24,680 Speaker 1: think he's a is suing for the second Tiger King one, right, Yeah, 317 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:28,199 Speaker 1: I think movies, yeah like that. But we also know 318 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:33,360 Speaker 1: that several big questions come to when serial killers can 319 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 1: actually sell their own content, and we've talked about that 320 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 1: as well previously. As in fact, the dudes from the 321 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 1: Making of The Murderer, the oldest man, I can't remember 322 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 1: his name. I'm not I'm not even highlighting y'all the 323 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:48,960 Speaker 1: killers are perpetrators in this. But he made money by 324 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:53,560 Speaker 1: selling off memorabilia in order to get some help in 325 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:56,680 Speaker 1: more legal counseling. And if that's if that's what's happening, great, 326 00:17:56,840 --> 00:18:00,440 Speaker 1: I guess yeah, sure, because we know not all counsehold 327 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:03,439 Speaker 1: is created equal. Maybe they didn't get the representations they needed, 328 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 1: but stuff like that. When you see that apparently O. J. 329 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:10,679 Speaker 1: Simpson's friend made money off of him by doing a 330 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 1: one number sharing his stories quote unquote, yeah, we have 331 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 1: different things like that. We know, like yeah, things being 332 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 1: stolen from crime scenes and resold as that life stories 333 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:27,639 Speaker 1: being sold and marketed to like Lifetime and all of 334 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 1: like all of these different things that are happening. And 335 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:34,880 Speaker 1: it definitely is like a cringe m to me. Um. 336 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 1: So the way that it is making money, I don't know. 337 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 1: Um Again, Preston talking about her documentary, she had they 338 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:43,120 Speaker 1: had nothing to do with it, and they had no say. 339 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:47,159 Speaker 1: So this person came in and uh did this documentary 340 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 1: and it's kind of made a name for themselves by 341 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 1: taking content that wasn't necessarily hers but public information. Yeah, 342 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:55,680 Speaker 1: and that's exactly what she talks about, is that the 343 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:59,479 Speaker 1: making of the documentary for the Sister the Special, as 344 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 1: it described, has been a sort of murder mystery. The 345 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:04,399 Speaker 1: way they set it up where they try to make 346 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,040 Speaker 1: it seem that the accused was innocent due to them 347 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 1: having a sleep disorder, so automatically, as a family of 348 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 1: a victim, you don't want to hear that. Yeah. Yeah, 349 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: And I think that's one of the things that I've 350 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 1: actually been thinking about it's quite a bit lately for 351 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 1: reasons that will come clear in the future podcast. But 352 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 1: like I feel like we're so ready to romanticize, forgive, 353 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:37,639 Speaker 1: and and feel sorry for the abuse a male serial 354 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:40,639 Speaker 1: killer in this case has gone through, which I'm not saying, 355 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: we shouldn't say like abuses bad or was a part 356 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:46,119 Speaker 1: of this, but we're so ready to be like, oh, 357 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 1: poor thing, almost like wow, I understand, And the mostly 358 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:54,880 Speaker 1: female victims in their orbit are a little more than 359 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:59,399 Speaker 1: just like him acting out his trauma and his trauma. 360 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:02,040 Speaker 1: Trump's her trauma and all of the other people's trauma 361 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:06,359 Speaker 1: around her. Yeah, like she's just kind of a side 362 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:12,159 Speaker 1: piece in his tragic, flawed existence. Right. I don't know 363 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:13,720 Speaker 1: much about the case. I didn't look into it. I 364 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 1: didn't want to watch the documentary after seeing her play 365 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:17,680 Speaker 1: to not watch it, So I was like, I will 366 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 1: respect that that There is a question absolutely when we 367 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:26,239 Speaker 1: talk about past trauma, abuse, all of that, how they 368 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:28,720 Speaker 1: can play into a factor. But we also have talked 369 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,120 Speaker 1: about when we talked about mass shooters, that it's too 370 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:33,639 Speaker 1: quick to people be like mental health and that's the 371 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 1: very ablest conversation. Just because you have a mental health 372 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 1: doesn't mean you're dangerous. And these narratives flipped to that point, 373 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 1: and that's that's very ablest and absolutely wrong in every 374 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 1: way like that, Okay, yes they may have a mental 375 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 1: health issue that we need to talk about, and that 376 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:52,880 Speaker 1: was there, but that is not the cause. So let's 377 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 1: just go ahead and empty that out. And I think 378 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 1: that's kind of that bigger conversation is also, who are 379 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 1: we looking to sympathize with? Quickly, they're the white killers, 380 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 1: like the white cis mel whatever. That are the ones 381 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:08,119 Speaker 1: who are to be sympathized with. And that's again that 382 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 1: bigger conversation, like this is all very able list in 383 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 1: this way, who's being seen as, oh no, we feel 384 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 1: sorry for them? All of that. And she also talks 385 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 1: about how had had the show, knowing that they were 386 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 1: making the show all about him, automatically was like, no, 387 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:23,440 Speaker 1: we don't want to see this. We've already had to 388 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:25,679 Speaker 1: go up to tow for this. But had it been 389 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: a story about how amazing her sister was and highlighting 390 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:30,040 Speaker 1: who she was and what she should have been able 391 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 1: to do and getting justice for, then they would have participated. 392 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:35,639 Speaker 1: As in fact, I believe they have a deal. The 393 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:38,199 Speaker 1: family has a deal with another maker who wants to 394 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,640 Speaker 1: talk about the sister, and that is that is wonderful 395 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 1: that I get that that you want to remember your sister. 396 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 1: And by the way, which leads to another question, So 397 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 1: what about the survivors who are retelling their story? Of course, 398 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:54,639 Speaker 1: I guess they have to have consented to a point, right, 399 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: But what kind of impact does it have for them 400 00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:00,399 Speaker 1: to sit in an interview chair being drilled about one 401 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 1: of the most horrific experiences they've ever had, and then 402 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 1: be judged by viewers who are often given an edited 403 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,960 Speaker 1: version of the story. And typically I will say, I 404 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:13,679 Speaker 1: hope the ones that I've seen they give allowance for 405 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: sympathy to the victims, to the survivors, But at the 406 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 1: same time, we still know they're trying to make it 407 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 1: a good story. So they want the gory details, They 408 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 1: want to go really deep into the things. How did 409 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: you feel like? They want to traumatize them more on 410 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 1: TV to get that good feed, right, They want the 411 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 1: tears and the emotions of people will tune in and 412 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 1: be like so powerful, right, And then no part of 413 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:40,400 Speaker 1: that could be like you don't have to go on, 414 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 1: But how else do you get control of that story? Then? Right, 415 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 1: It's almost like they've pushed into a corner to do 416 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:53,120 Speaker 1: so yeah, yeah, no, I agree, because it's oh gosh, 417 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 1: how exhausting it must be to have gone through this 418 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 1: traumatic thing. And then people that's what they know you for, 419 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,400 Speaker 1: and that's what they keep contacting you for using purposely, 420 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:03,679 Speaker 1: you're always reminded of it. And then you know if 421 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 1: you don't say anything that people are going to take 422 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:09,159 Speaker 1: that as message in itself, even if it's just you 423 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:26,679 Speaker 1: try and protect your own health, right, oh man. And 424 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 1: then and then the common link, as we were researching, 425 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 1: is the continued trauma that affects the entire family who 426 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 1: has lost the dear loved one which impacts them. I 427 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 1: don't know if we've talked about, but that's been talked about, 428 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 1: how divorces happened, separationists happened, Um, a lot of you know, 429 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 1: trauma related mental health issues happen, like so many things. 430 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:50,119 Speaker 1: And not only that, but we often are told all 431 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 1: of the secrets of not only the family, but the 432 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 1: lives of the victims and all around them. I mean, 433 00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 1: I want to be horrified if someone knew every detail 434 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 1: of my life in every way and then just shredded 435 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:08,439 Speaker 1: it and pushed it all out. I mean, obviously the 436 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:10,679 Speaker 1: victim blaming in itself is what it goes to. But 437 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,359 Speaker 1: then if you are a victim or the family of 438 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 1: the victim not want to share all of these things 439 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 1: and it's just out there for everyone to see. Again, 440 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,119 Speaker 1: the families do not have control over the narrative that 441 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 1: is being shared, which adds even more trauma. Yeah, for sure, 442 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,359 Speaker 1: Like I'm thinking of, like I don't watch shoot come off, 443 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:33,960 Speaker 1: and but I'm thinking you past things I've watched where 444 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 1: it's like she went out and she was known to 445 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 1: drink and sometimes flirt, And they definitely will paint it 446 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:42,680 Speaker 1: in a way where you're like, well, this is very 447 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 1: victim blaming, but they do it in such a way 448 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 1: where I think they're trying to build the mystery of 449 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,359 Speaker 1: what happened. But all it really does is I feel 450 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 1: very victim blaming me. It is. And that's the other part, 451 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:57,679 Speaker 1: Like the conversations, And I know when it comes to 452 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,200 Speaker 1: investigations and things like that, you have to go clinical, 453 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:03,680 Speaker 1: you have to go almost like factual in every way, 454 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 1: and so things like terms like high risk low risk victims, 455 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:10,640 Speaker 1: so literally like oh, you put yourself in this high 456 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 1: risk situation, so yeah, you're more likely to get murdered 457 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:17,119 Speaker 1: And that's frank and to the point, I guess, but 458 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:19,479 Speaker 1: is it better? Is it a great narrative? Is that 459 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:25,680 Speaker 1: what you would want to hear about your family member? Hell? No, no, yes, 460 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 1: I'm a single woman living alone, so I'm deaf therefore 461 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 1: high risk? What right? Right? Right? And did not have 462 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,359 Speaker 1: any control over that? And just you know, when you 463 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: lose someone, you think of all the like, but they 464 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 1: don't know this about this person or they don't know right. 465 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 1: It's like it's such a like dramatized for the building 466 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:49,160 Speaker 1: of this mystery that there's like there's just so much 467 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:53,240 Speaker 1: left out of who that person was. And ah, that 468 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:57,159 Speaker 1: would be highly upsetting for sure, right, you know, But 469 00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: not all feel that way, Not all family members feel 470 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:02,920 Speaker 1: this way, not all survivors feel this way. Some feel 471 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 1: that's the very least, at least people are still talking 472 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 1: about the cases that's not been solved. That was one 473 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 1: of the things about the Gabby Potitos case is that 474 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,960 Speaker 1: if had they not talked about it as much, maybe 475 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 1: they would never have solved it. They were never found 476 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:19,639 Speaker 1: her um, which again led to the fight and why 477 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,720 Speaker 1: aren't we talking about everybody else who's missing that's unsolved, 478 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: that is a cult case, and that that's exactly the point, 479 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 1: not only that they're talking about it, but they're bringing 480 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,479 Speaker 1: it back to light. Uh. As in fact, in cases 481 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:36,120 Speaker 1: of shows like Unsolved Mysteries or The Most Wanted, which 482 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,919 Speaker 1: did you watch any of those those horrified note? I 483 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 1: watched it. I was scared. Of course, the Unsolved Mysteries 484 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:47,680 Speaker 1: also had alien abductions and yeah, yeah, too much so. 485 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,080 Speaker 1: But the Families feels that at the very at least, 486 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: there are some who are still trying to find justice, 487 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 1: trying to get answers um. And according to the creator 488 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:59,440 Speaker 1: of the reboot of Unsolved Mysteries, which is back on Netflix, uh, 489 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:03,159 Speaker 1: the original, which ran for twenty nine years like a 490 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,440 Speaker 1: long time, helps solve over two hundred and sixty cold 491 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 1: cases during their time, while shows like um Jinks, which 492 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 1: is about Durst Robert Durst, I believe and most wanted 493 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 1: to help get arrest of very infamous criminals that people 494 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,680 Speaker 1: didn't even know we're out there, but highlighted it and 495 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,199 Speaker 1: they were able to get some type of conviction, some 496 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:27,199 Speaker 1: type of arrest. Um they had gotten some proof about it. 497 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,080 Speaker 1: There are other shows they're talking about that they help 498 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:34,359 Speaker 1: solve like another hundred unsolved cases, and and and so 499 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:37,480 Speaker 1: things like that do come to light, and people are 500 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:41,240 Speaker 1: very grateful to have stories like that, but still does 501 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 1: kind of linger into viewership and monetization and what does 502 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 1: that look like? And I know there's a a couple 503 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 1: of questions like who is it going after? And what 504 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,240 Speaker 1: how does the narrative happen? Is it biased to make 505 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 1: you believe someone's guilty or believe someone's not guilty? Who knows? 506 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 1: And of course, as viewers like myself, we have to 507 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:04,159 Speaker 1: be careful. I know, I know that we're talking about it, 508 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:08,119 Speaker 1: and obviously I am very, very very guilty of leaning 509 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 1: into these a little too hard. I told you I 510 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 1: really like Snapped, but it does I'm sure there's a 511 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,120 Speaker 1: sexist in here that I'm not paying attention to because 512 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 1: I've just caught up. And at the same time, I'm 513 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:21,399 Speaker 1: sometimes like, yeah, I'm gonna snap too, let's go um, 514 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:23,720 Speaker 1: you know, bringing light to the fact that why are 515 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 1: we so obsessed with these conversations in these stories? Is 516 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 1: it because we want to again protect ourselves? Is it 517 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:32,480 Speaker 1: because we want to make ourselves feel better? At least 518 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 1: we're not in that situation, which is really kind of 519 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,879 Speaker 1: gross in itself, and I get that too, but that 520 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 1: we have to remember that it isn't just an entertainment source, 521 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:44,880 Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, I think that's really really important, and 522 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 1: that's been a conversation in the podcasting world that we've 523 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 1: experienced because it's I guess respectfulness is the key. I 524 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:56,440 Speaker 1: would say, like, definitely, it's not that we shouldn't tell 525 00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 1: these stories, but we should do them respectfully and hopefully 526 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 1: with consent of I mean, in my world, with the 527 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:07,040 Speaker 1: consent of people who were directly involved and with their 528 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 1: I don't have cooperation is the right word, but like 529 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 1: they're the people to ask to just do it in 530 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 1: a way that is the least harmful and the most helpful. Right, Yeah, 531 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 1: we have to be responsible on how something is consumed 532 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 1: and who are the ones that are making the money 533 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:33,960 Speaker 1: and benefits benefiting from it. Mm hm oh gosh. There's 534 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 1: so much, so much stuff to unpack in this and 535 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 1: so many things that I'm like, we should talk about 536 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 1: this later. I love how these are Monday minis are 537 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 1: good and off the chain. We can't help it. We 538 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 1: got so many thoughts and if you have thoughts, listeners 539 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:51,959 Speaker 1: we would love to hear them. You can email us 540 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 1: at Steffie your Mom stuff at I heart media dot com. 541 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:56,240 Speaker 1: You confine us on Twitter at months of podcasts or 542 00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 1: Instagram of stuff I've never told you. Thanks, it's always 543 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:03,040 Speaker 1: You're a super producer, Chris Gina, Thank you, yes, and 544 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 1: thanks to you for listening. Stephone never told his production 545 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio for more podcast on my Heart 546 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: Radio VI isnit that I hear radio? App, Apple podcast 547 00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite ships.