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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds, and Jim Jordan continues to embarrass the

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Speaker 1: American people on our southern border. We have an incredible

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Speaker 1: show today. The new republicanitor Michael Damaski stops by for

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Speaker 1: a brief history lesson on how we got to our

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Speaker 1: current partisan political climate. Then Silent Spring Revolution author Douglas

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Speaker 1: Brinkley outlines what Biden can learn from past environmental disasters.

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Speaker 1: But first we have the one, the Only, George Conway.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back, too, Fast Politics, your friend and mine. George Conway. Oh,

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Speaker 1: how are Yeah? I'm fine. We haven't had any insurructions lately.

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Speaker 1: It's good. That is good. First, I want to start

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Speaker 1: by asking you about the Georgia Grand Jury. Yes, the jury, Foreman,

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Speaker 1: it's going to be a great Saturday Night Live skin

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Speaker 1: it really is, right, right, She's like that one wasn't

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Speaker 1: Michigan The guy in the red vest remember the guy

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Speaker 1: in the red vest ken bone, The guy in the

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Speaker 1: red vest ken bone. That's right? Okay, yeah, okay, okay.

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Speaker 1: So I want to ask you special grand jury put

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Speaker 1: together by Fanny Wells, it was already out right, it

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Speaker 1: was done, her service was done, the deliberations were done, right.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I've seen some suggestions in the press. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, Georgia lost. I've seen some suggestions in the

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Speaker 1: press that she actually huge the line that was appropriate

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Speaker 1: for a Georgia special grand jury, which is different from

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Speaker 1: a federal grand jury because you'd never see a federal

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Speaker 1: grand jury do this. But one one way or the other,

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Speaker 1: it just wasn't particularly helpful. But at the end of

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Speaker 1: the day, it's just comic relief. And that's my bottom

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Speaker 1: line on this. Doesn't it bias? Like now? What? Now?

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Speaker 1: What the I mean? Like, so, now Fanny Wellis is

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Speaker 1: going to make these indictment recommendations. Is this, you know,

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Speaker 1: take the case to another grand jury and that jury

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Speaker 1: has the power to indict, and the defendants will make

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Speaker 1: whatever noises they want to make about this, but it's

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Speaker 1: not going to help. And at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: this is all going to be forgotten because we'll actually

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Speaker 1: see the indictments, we'll see who's been indicted, and we'll

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Speaker 1: start seeing more evidence. When do we think that happens?

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Speaker 1: She told this court, the court that released the grand

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Speaker 1: jury report. In part she told that judge that indictments

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Speaker 1: were imminent. But you know, imminent can mean. I mean,

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Speaker 1: some people mean imminent means it's they're they're going to

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Speaker 1: the hospital have a baby. Some people mean imminent means

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Speaker 1: we're getting into it in a few weeks. Logically, imminent

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Speaker 1: wouldn't mean six months. I think imminent would mean at

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Speaker 1: most a couple two or three months. Is this my guess,

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Speaker 1: And just timing wise, she's got to get this cranking.

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Speaker 1: She's got to get this cracking. It's annoying on for

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Speaker 1: a while, and you don't really want to have these

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Speaker 1: cases brought in the middle of the silly season. What

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Speaker 1: is the silly season. The silly season is when you know,

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Speaker 1: people start wearing red hats and actually going to Iowa

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Speaker 1: and things like that, And that's going to happen in

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Speaker 1: the next few We're not We're almost there. Okay. So

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Speaker 1: that's one case of Donald Trump's many legal liabilities. The

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Speaker 1: second case is Jack Smith. Jack Smith the new Bob Mueller.

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Speaker 1: I think he's a younger and faster model. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: tell me what you're what your sense is there? Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean, we solve a report in the New York

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Speaker 1: Times yesterday or the day before days all playing together. Now, really,

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Speaker 1: I have no idea what that's like. You have no

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Speaker 1: idea exactly. Jared and Ivanka have been subpoena to appear

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Speaker 1: before that grand jury. There is only one reason why

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Speaker 1: you would do that, because they're pretty and tall. They're

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Speaker 1: pretty and tall, yes, And that's the money. It's like

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Speaker 1: lots of sawty money, not just money. Mister Kushner tell

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Speaker 1: us about NBS is he is? He is? He is?

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Speaker 1: He really a fun guy, he seems everyone else oh above.

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Speaker 1: I know I make these slatching jokes about the Saudis

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Speaker 1: because I despise them so much. Yes, all right, so

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Speaker 1: you know the only reason why you want to talk

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Speaker 1: to them is because they had access to Trump on

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Speaker 1: January sixth, and so the only reason why you do

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Speaker 1: that is you are focusing on him as the talking

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Speaker 1: Meadows isn't the target here. Meadows may even cooperate for

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Speaker 1: all we know. So you know, there's really nobody else

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Speaker 1: at the end of the day for those two who matters.

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Speaker 1: They are a window into Trump. I mean, they kept

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Speaker 1: sending Ivanka down to the Oval to talk to him

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Speaker 1: and you know, trying to get them off the ledge

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Speaker 1: and talk some sense into him. These two are the worst, right,

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Speaker 1: she was supposed to be this influence right where she

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Speaker 1: was going to get him. In their defense, which I

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Speaker 1: hate to say those words, in their defense, he's completely uncontrollable.

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Speaker 1: He's completely manipulable. But he's uncontrollable, and people don't understand it.

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Speaker 1: There is they think just because they can manipulate him.

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Speaker 1: He's old, he's stupid, he's narcissistic. You can play on

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Speaker 1: his ego and that's why you know, I mean, you

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Speaker 1: read these stories. It's been for years. Like the last

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Speaker 1: person it's almost important to read the last person to talking,

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Speaker 1: because everyone knows how to go in there and persuade

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Speaker 1: him by saying that you're so smart. Look at this

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Speaker 1: idea that I just thought of it, you just thought

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Speaker 1: of I just thought it from you. You know. There

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Speaker 1: are all sorts of tricks they used to manipulate him,

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Speaker 1: but they can't control him. That's the problem, right, right, right,

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Speaker 1: that's the mistake that they made. Right, No, that's for

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Speaker 1: sure true. As we see this who going then there's

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Speaker 1: your friend in mine e Gene Carroll's case. That's the

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Speaker 1: sleeper case O case. And also this is going to

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Speaker 1: be great when I get to go on TV to

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Speaker 1: talk about it. Full disclaimer here and you need this

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Speaker 1: disclaimer too, Oh good, I like any disclaimer that I

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Speaker 1: am also covered by Gene Carroll met her lawyer, Robbie

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Speaker 1: Kaplan because I met Jean and a party at your apartment.

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Speaker 1: That's right, don't I know it? And I told Jean

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Speaker 1: that she had to go out and get this lawyer.

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Speaker 1: And I then called this lawyer, Robbie Kaplant, up and

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Speaker 1: said it is I have a case for you, and

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Speaker 1: the rest is unfortunate history for Donald J. Trump. So

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Speaker 1: tell me about that case. Though now you can comment

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Speaker 1: Donald as a That case is going to go to

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Speaker 1: trial on April twenty fourth, and in one way or

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Speaker 1: the other. And there are really two cases. There's one

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Speaker 1: case that's the defamation case based upon the statements that

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Speaker 1: Trump made while he was president when the accusations first

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Speaker 1: came out. He said, she's not my type. I've never

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Speaker 1: matter of course, there was a photograph of him meeting her.

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Speaker 1: That's a definite action. And then New York passed this

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Speaker 1: thing called the Survivor's Law. It basically it says it

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Speaker 1: revived all sexual assault to sexual harassment claims for a

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Speaker 1: period of I don't know how many a year, I

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Speaker 1: think after the passage or the statutes, so that people

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Speaker 1: victims whose claims were cut to up by a shorter

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Speaker 1: statue of limitations in the past one chet chance to

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Speaker 1: bring their case one time, and that's what she then

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Speaker 1: brought the case against Trump on sexual assault, which for

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Speaker 1: the statute of limitations for which would have otherwise run.

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Speaker 1: So now there are two cases and they basically turned

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Speaker 1: on the same issue. Did Donald Trump rape Jean Carroll?

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Speaker 1: If he did, then that he also defamed her when

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Speaker 1: he said she was lying, And if he did, he's

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Speaker 1: also liable now for sexual assault under the survivors launch.

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Speaker 1: So it's basically two cases and one depending on like

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Speaker 1: one event that happened in nineteen nineties, to which there

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Speaker 1: are multiple witnesses in the sense that there are you know,

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Speaker 1: she told people immediately after it happened, and then apparently

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Speaker 1: there's going to be some other evidence about you know,

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Speaker 1: coming from people who are who are there at the

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Speaker 1: town to gap. But we'll say, do you think that

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Speaker 1: case has a real shot. It's not a question of

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Speaker 1: it as a shot. I don't I don't know how

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Speaker 1: it's trial for Donald Trump. Is he really going to

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Speaker 1: testify and subject himself to cross examination? Because hasn't he

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Speaker 1: been ordered to testify? Now he had to testify that position.

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Speaker 1: He doesn't have to testify in his own defense at trial.

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Speaker 1: Robbie Kaplan, the plan lawyer could call him as a

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Speaker 1: hostile witness. But if he doesn't testify to what happened

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Speaker 1: that day, there is no evidence on his side. But

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Speaker 1: on the other hand, he can't testify because he'll get

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Speaker 1: cut the shreds. Robbie'll kill him right, and it's going

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Speaker 1: to be a spectacle. His best play is to not

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Speaker 1: dignify the trial by showing up and just making the

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Speaker 1: case about damages and saying we think it's just ridiculous.

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Speaker 1: And then what happens. He's gonna be held liably. He's

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Speaker 1: going to have the red jet. But there's no criminal. No,

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Speaker 1: there's no criminal, but he's going to be The evidence

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Speaker 1: is going to be very embarrassing to him. And the

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Speaker 1: way he could compound the embarrassment, I think is by testify.

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Speaker 1: I think he's going to want to basically take to

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Speaker 1: take a default on liability. You don't think he's going

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Speaker 1: to try to testify. I think he'd be insane too.

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Speaker 1: But he is insane, right, all right? So who knows?

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Speaker 1: On the other him, they were successful in getting him

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Speaker 1: to flee the Fifth Amendment four hundred and some long

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Speaker 1: times at his civil deposition in the ARKG case. So

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Speaker 1: you did no times, then sense will prevail on him.

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Speaker 1: That's sensitive. But he's you know, on the other hand,

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Speaker 1: he opens his mouth about everything all the time. But

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Speaker 1: what kind of civil award could this be? Do you think?

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Speaker 1: I don't know what damage is sought? Are I don't

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Speaker 1: know what the expert reports say or anything like that.

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Speaker 1: But you know, it's basically argues that she was she's

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Speaker 1: have an emotional injury from what happened in the department store,

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Speaker 1: and then she also suffered damages from the libel. Some

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Speaker 1: people wouldn't go near her and hire her for things,

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Speaker 1: and so on and so forth after that. Right, it's

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Speaker 1: not going to bankrupt them. But you know, the most

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Speaker 1: important thing is just the testimony about what he did

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Speaker 1: and the fact that there's nothing, nothing, that stands on

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Speaker 1: his side. That and she's going to be a much

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Speaker 1: more credible witness I think than he would ever be

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Speaker 1: right right, right, And also she doesn't have years of

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Speaker 1: lying to her her standing. Yes, Donald Trump could not

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Speaker 1: withstrand cross examination on any subject for more than five

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Speaker 1: minutes or one minute. Frankly, he can't answer class questions coherently,

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Speaker 1: He can't answer questions truthfully, and basically you get gibberish

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Speaker 1: and insanity after a certain amount of time. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we saw that in the first this book that Woodward wrote,

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Speaker 1: which I forget the names of which the books, but

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Speaker 1: the first one he wrote about, you know, he wrote

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Speaker 1: about the defense of the Mueller investigation and how Jim Doubt,

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Speaker 1: his own lawyer, put him through a cross examination to

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Speaker 1: try to figure out how, you know, how to how

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Speaker 1: to prep him for being interviewed by Mueller. And basically

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Speaker 1: conclusion is that I can testify to lie his ass off,

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Speaker 1: he just will lose it. I know, you're not a

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Speaker 1: Republican anymore, but you really are a Republican. So who

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Speaker 1: do this sort of non crazy Republicans vote for in

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Speaker 1: this primary? Look, I mean, if I were voting in

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Speaker 1: a Republican primary, which I've been, because I will not

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Speaker 1: registered as a Republican for a number of years until

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Speaker 1: the rot is completely gone, and I don't see that

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Speaker 1: happening anytime soon. I vote for Sinnoni and Hogan. This

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Speaker 1: is more sane. Yeah, yeah, you know, and I do

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Speaker 1: that because I mean, look, they're a little maybe they're

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Speaker 1: a little more liberal than I might like. In sort

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Speaker 1: of a normal world where we had sensible political discourse,

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Speaker 1: I'd probably'd be slightly to the right of them, not

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Speaker 1: too much, I think, I don't know, but in this environment,

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Speaker 1: you know, so basically the big question for me is,

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Speaker 1: you know, just you know, call out a lot, a

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Speaker 1: big lot. I even have sympathy for people who I

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Speaker 1: know know the truth and have been willing to sort

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Speaker 1: of hint at it. I can even accept some of that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's like, I'm not vote for

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Speaker 1: Mitch McConnell for president. I don't think anybody would. I'm

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Speaker 1: not even sure a Lane would. Yeah, but you know,

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Speaker 1: so I have this, I have this now soft spot

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Speaker 1: in my heart for you that develops right because he's

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Speaker 1: not fullishit. Well, he is fullishit. I mean he is

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Speaker 1: full of shit, but not in about the election in

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Speaker 1: a typical politician kind of way. Okay, in a regular

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Speaker 1: regular machine politician kind of way, which is fine, you know,

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Speaker 1: in an ordinary environment. But the thing about McConnell is,

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Speaker 1: I know, deep down he hates Donald Trump, despises Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump to test his behavior everybody as much as you

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Speaker 1: alide right right now, probably more, probably more because it

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Speaker 1: made his life difficult, right It's crushed his dream of

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Speaker 1: taking away Social Security. You gave you a pod? Yes,

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Speaker 1: it cost him a job. Yeah, Oh well, thoughts prayers neither.

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Speaker 1: I want to ask you one more question, which is,

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Speaker 1: I mean, let's just game this out for a minute.

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Speaker 1: Does de Santis get the nomination? No, okay, it's possible

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Speaker 1: as an outside shot at it, What do you think happens?

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Speaker 1: Because I think you have a pretty interesting I do.

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Speaker 1: I have a pretty gunn Here's might be a trunk

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Speaker 1: will get the nomination and he will get bailed, but

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Speaker 1: he will not win the general. And what I think is,

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Speaker 1: I don't think right now that the primary is set

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Speaker 1: up so that Trump can be defeated. I mean, there

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Speaker 1: are probably fifty percent of Republicans of a war who

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Speaker 1: want him to go away. Many of those people would

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Speaker 1: probably vote for him anyway if depending on who the

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Speaker 1: other choices were a lot of those people would. But

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Speaker 1: what matters is the fact that it doesn't take fifty

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Speaker 1: percent to win the nomination. I mean, there are these

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Speaker 1: you know, winner take all delegate rules that kick in

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Speaker 1: pretty early, as I understand it, And so you know,

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Speaker 1: you get twenty seven percent of the vote and that

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Speaker 1: guy gets twenty four you get all the delegates in

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Speaker 1: a lot of these states. The way you beat Trump

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Speaker 1: is one on on and going after him hammer and tone.

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's going to be one on one

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Speaker 1: at any point or soon enough for the Santis to win.

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Speaker 1: I don't think, and I don't think the Santists would

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Speaker 1: do what it's necess you do, which is to go

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Speaker 1: hammer and tongue at Trump. And I think the nam

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Speaker 1: is going to be everybody's going to go attack the Santis,

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Speaker 1: and Trump's going to be attacking the Santis. Right, everybody's

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Speaker 1: not to talk about the orange elephant that shout on

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Speaker 1: the stage. You know, he's going to get bit of

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Speaker 1: a free ride, and he's going to get his thirty

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Speaker 1: five percent, and he's going to get the nomination and

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Speaker 1: he will you know, he'll post bail and he'll be

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Speaker 1: the first actively indicted, maybe even trying a criminal case,

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Speaker 1: presidential candidate, a nominee of a major party in history,

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Speaker 1: and he's going to ferment violence because if he can't

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Speaker 1: get out by getting presidential immunity of being reelected again,

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Speaker 1: he'll He's wanted to take every everyone down with him,

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Speaker 1: which is what malignant narcissist, narcissistic psychopaths do. Even if

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Speaker 1: the Santists were able to beat Trump one on one

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Speaker 1: in a race that I just don't see happening. But

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Speaker 1: if it happened and he was he was got sixty

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Speaker 1: or seventy percent of the vote and got the nomination

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Speaker 1: or even fifty, you know he's gonna end up with

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Speaker 1: twenty or thirty percent of Republicans pissed at him. And

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Speaker 1: Trump would even run as a third party candidate just

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Speaker 1: to just to screw things up of spite. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean that seems likely to Rick keeps saying that people

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Speaker 1: in case he's going to trial, and he wants to

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Speaker 1: basically say this, I'm being persecuted and because I'm running,

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Speaker 1: both parties have conspired against me, and you know he's

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Speaker 1: going to do that. I don't do that before anything else.

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Speaker 1: So it's going to be the biggest It's going to

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Speaker 1: be a biggest shit show because we've seen in the

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Speaker 1: last one hundred and sixty years of American history. Is

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Speaker 1: there going to be a change in George Conway's life.

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Speaker 1: It's possible. It's possible. Okay, So that I think is uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, not not nothing, George Conway. I hope you

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Speaker 1: will come back. Will you come back? You are a troublemaker.

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Speaker 1: You are a troublemaker. You are such a trouble maker.

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Speaker 1: I hope you will come back. Come on, it's fun. Hi.

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Speaker 1: Doug Brinkley is the author of Silent Spring Revolution, Welcome

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Speaker 1: Too Fast Politics. Doug Brinkley, thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: having me. Molly appreciate it. I'm very excited to have you.

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Speaker 1: We are second generation friends because you have been on

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Speaker 1: panels with my mother absolutely and I've watched on video

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Speaker 1: of panel you did with Playboy with your mom recently,

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Speaker 1: which I just love talking about the Second Feminist Revolution

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Speaker 1: and just where things are at today. It was a

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Speaker 1: really interesting panel you did. Oh well, thank you, mom

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Speaker 1: and daughter swapping stories. It was great. You know, we

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Speaker 1: have a dog and pony show, but you are an

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Speaker 1: expert in this field about this political history of environmental disaster.

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Speaker 1: For lack of a better phrase, yeah, well, you know, so,

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Speaker 1: I grew up in a town called Perrysburg, Ohio, along

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Speaker 1: the Mammy River, and I was there in nineteen sixty

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Speaker 1: nine when the Kayahoga River caught on fire. That's the

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Speaker 1: great industrial waterway by Cleveland, and I mean little match

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Speaker 1: you would go up and fire, and then Lake Geary

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Speaker 1: was dying. The novelist Kurt Vonnegut said it's dying of

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Speaker 1: human excrement in clorox bottles. And doctor Seuss wrote about

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Speaker 1: Lake Geary, Smeary, Lake Gary. And unfortunately Ohio has been

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Speaker 1: treated very shabbily from an environmental point of view. Companies

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Speaker 1: come here and run willy nilly and shotgun over the landscape.

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Speaker 1: That's one of the reasons one has to be concerned

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Speaker 1: about the chemical derailment that just occurred and the explosion

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Speaker 1: and a seemingly lack of immediate strong federal response. People

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Speaker 1: in Ohio feel like their rivers and their landscapes are

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Speaker 1: often abused by industrial chemical companies. So I want to

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Speaker 1: ask you about this book you wrote, Silent Spring Revolution.

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Speaker 1: You focused on a period of time and the leaders

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Speaker 1: who got involved in this great environment mental awakening. Can

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Speaker 1: you explain a little bit about how that came about

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Speaker 1: and sort of what this was. We've had three environmental waves.

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Speaker 1: It used to be the word conservation, So forgive me

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Speaker 1: for saying environmental to an era when that work didn't exist.

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Speaker 1: But for listeners it's easier for me to use the

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Speaker 1: word environmental. The first was Theodore Roosevelt from nineteen o

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Speaker 1: one to nineteen o nine, and tr really started putting

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Speaker 1: the federal large s on things like creating our US

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Speaker 1: FARS Service. Today, if you look at a map and

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Speaker 1: see all these national fars, they were born during the

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Speaker 1: Roosevelt pr administration. He started using executive power the Antiquities

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Speaker 1: Act of nineteen o six. The White House had the

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Speaker 1: power to go in and say you're not mining the

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Speaker 1: Grand Canyon for zinc, abstos and copper, and if you

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Speaker 1: don't want it as a national park, the national parks

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Speaker 1: have to be approved by Congress, and Congress didn't want

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Speaker 1: the Grand Canyon. R then used executive power to save

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Speaker 1: what became over a million acre national monument later became

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Speaker 1: park when the politics were better. So that era, that

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Speaker 1: first wave was quite exciting because Roosevelt by nature, tr

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Speaker 1: was a wildlife conservationist. He went to Harvard and naturalist studies.

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Speaker 1: He wrote a book as an undergraduate called The Summer

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Speaker 1: Birds of the Adirondack. And so we had a president

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Speaker 1: who really got conservation and elevated it. And didn't he

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Speaker 1: have a lot of wild pets too. He had thirty

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Speaker 1: seven at one point in the White House. His favorite

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Speaker 1: was a little dog named Skip that could climb trees,

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Speaker 1: but he also had parrots snakes. Emperor highly Selassie of

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Speaker 1: Ethiopia had gifted him a hyena, which Roosevelt and gave

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Speaker 1: to the National Zoo. Wandering around the White House was Josiah,

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Speaker 1: a badger that a little girl gave President Roosevelt in

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Speaker 1: a box in Nebraska, and he fed it with a

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Speaker 1: baby bottle milk and potatoes and grew up. And badgers

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Speaker 1: are colonial animals, meaning they'll play with they'll never turn

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Speaker 1: on the family they're grown up with, but they'll attack

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Speaker 1: anybody outside of the perfect pet perfect Yeah, exactly, But

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Speaker 1: so it actually bit a congressman that attack with the

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Speaker 1: badger in the White House forced near to Roosevelt to

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Speaker 1: bring the badger to his home in Long Island Sagamore Hill,

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Speaker 1: but it's buried and with the cemetery stone right at

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Speaker 1: Sagmore Hill the badger Josiah So Roosevelt was a Doctor

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Speaker 1: Doolittle like figure. TR kept his pockets filled with nuts

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Speaker 1: to feed the squirrels. Every day. He started working on

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Speaker 1: a book about the birds of Washington, DC. As president,

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Speaker 1: really remarkable Roosevelt and environmentalism and outdoor world. And I

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Speaker 1: wrote a book called The Wilderness Warrior about that. I

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Speaker 1: led you on a tangent, but I want you to

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Speaker 1: get back to it because what you're talking about is

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Speaker 1: incredibly interesting. So the second president who led this second

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Speaker 1: environmental revolution was who, oh, it was Franklin D. Rose Belt. Okay,

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Speaker 1: to understand TR and FDR, I mean, Theodore Roosevelt was

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Speaker 1: from New York. FDR was from New York. Theodore Roosevelt

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Speaker 1: went to Harvard. FDR went to Harvard, and they were

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Speaker 1: fifth cousins. But Theodore Roosevelt was assistant Secretary of the Navy.

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Speaker 1: FDR was assistant Secretary of the Navy. Theodore Roosevelt was

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Speaker 1: Governor of New York. FDR was Governor of New York.

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Speaker 1: Theodore Roosevelt liked the Big Navy and loved conservation. FDR

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Speaker 1: loved both. And Theodore Roosevelt had a niece, Eleanor, who

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Speaker 1: FDR married, right, So the two Roosevelts really elevated environmental

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Speaker 1: concerns to the very top of the national agenda. And

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Speaker 1: in fact, when it used to be inaugurations of presidents

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Speaker 1: were in March, and the famous New Deal kickoff of

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Speaker 1: FDR in March of thirty three. His first New Deal

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Speaker 1: program was the Civilian Conservation Corps, which paid unemployed workers

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Speaker 1: a dollar a day to tree plant, and from nineteen

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Speaker 1: thirty three to nineteen forty two, the CCC plant to

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Speaker 1: nearly three billion trees across America because we were just

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Speaker 1: like in Ohio right now, it's an ecological disaster of

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Speaker 1: the whole country. It wasn't just the stock market in

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Speaker 1: the depression. It was the dust bowl and the Great Plains.

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Speaker 1: We had cut all of our hardwood trees, drained all

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Speaker 1: the swamps. Right, we had been farming wrong, and that

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Speaker 1: had killed the land. Yeah, we've been farming wrong, and

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Speaker 1: we now we brought science into agriculture and forestry under FDR.

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Speaker 1: And he was the progenitor of eight hundred state parks

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Speaker 1: during the New Deal, and say places like the Great Smokies,

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Speaker 1: the Everglades, the Channel Islands of California, the Olympic Forest.

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Speaker 1: Want to go on and on with what FDR did

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Speaker 1: with others. It was a movement. So the third wave

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Speaker 1: that my new book is Silent Spring Revolution, doesn't have

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Speaker 1: a Roosevelt in it, and it didn't have a president

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Speaker 1: that really loved the natural world like these two Roosevelts,

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Speaker 1: I mean, tr and FDR loved Henry David Thurreau and

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Speaker 1: you know, and we're autub honors and all this. And

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Speaker 1: I had to begin my book in nineteen forty five

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Speaker 1: because the dropping of the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki,

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Speaker 1: while gave us victory over Japan, concerned a lot of

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Speaker 1: public scientists and public moralists. Is this the doom of mankind?

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Speaker 1: And people started getting information and data, scientific info on radiation, fallout, sickness, cancer, leukemia.

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Speaker 1: Yet we were willy nilly testing nuclear weapons in the

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Speaker 1: Nevada Desert, right, people were six six six well. And

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Speaker 1: also we were building bombs in Los Alma, Yeah, New Mexico,

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Speaker 1: because the Southwest became a nuclear range. What happened is

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Speaker 1: people I write about in my book Rachel Carson, who

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Speaker 1: was from Pennsylvania. She had done her advanced degree in

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Speaker 1: zoology at John's Hopkins studied at Woods holl in Massachusetts.

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Speaker 1: Anybody listening read Rachel Carson's trilogy on ocean life. They're remarkable.

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Speaker 1: So let's get now to what's happening in Ohio because

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Speaker 1: there's a historical president. But there's also an opportunity here

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Speaker 1: for the Biden administration to get serious about conservation. Again. Well,

426
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:24,800
Speaker 1: the Biden administration has done a good job on climate change,

427
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:29,560
Speaker 1: but unfortunately, because I'm admer of President Biden, the administration

428
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 1: was slow in Ohio. In my book, I write about

429
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,200
Speaker 1: when Nixon was president in eight days and the Santa

430
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 1: Barbara oil spill happened, and Nixon's sent Walter Hickle, the

431
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 1: Interior Secretary, to California, and right when he was arriving,

432
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:45,160
Speaker 1: he heard the White House saying it wasn't so bad

433
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:48,679
Speaker 1: in California. Yes, there's some birds that are got in oil,

434
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,159
Speaker 1: but it's going to be okay. Hickle got ahold of

435
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 1: Nixon and said, do not minimize. It's a disaster. Do

436
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 1: not minimize. And Nixon listened to that. And avoided the

437
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:03,880
Speaker 1: blame for the spill. Biden administration didn't seem to want

438
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:07,360
Speaker 1: to make this into a big environmental flash point moment, right,

439
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 1: but it is, and they're going to have no choice.

440
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 1: Then they have no choice. That president didn't come, Kamala

441
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 1: Harris didn't come, Buddha Jedge only came after Trump, and

442
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:20,720
Speaker 1: the EPA of Chief, who I like and Amyer was

443
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,960
Speaker 1: seemed slow out of the gate, and it's unfortunate, but

444
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:26,359
Speaker 1: when these disasters happened like this, you have to be

445
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 1: on the ground and have a bullhorn moment where you're

446
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,400
Speaker 1: saying I'm here. And Biden is so good at hugging

447
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 1: and emphasizing with people, it would have been a natural

448
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 1: scene for him. But I think he may have been

449
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 1: planning the Ukraine trip to keep and kind of neglected

450
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:44,679
Speaker 1: Ohio and they're paying a political cost for it in

451
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,680
Speaker 1: the public square right now. Right. It's interesting because this

452
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 1: is actually a real opportunity. What's happened. I mean, so

453
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:53,920
Speaker 1: one of the things that Trump did was he really

454
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 1: ran on deregulation, right he would say, for every regulation,

455
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 1: you know, we're going to take away five And nobody

456
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,919
Speaker 1: was able to thread the needle between deregulation and environmental

457
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,880
Speaker 1: catastrophes in such a clear way as we're seeing right

458
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,199
Speaker 1: now right here. Absolutely, and so they do. You know,

459
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 1: the blame of the Trump administration for gutting EPA, for

460
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 1: massive deregulation. I could go on and on, but when

461
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 1: a crisis of the environment happens, the president has to

462
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 1: respond in a forty eight hour window while people are traumatized.

463
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 1: And you know, I remember when Barack Obama went to

464
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 1: Flint later and then drank the water. It was a

465
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:36,679
Speaker 1: photo op moment. But it may people think maybe I

466
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 1: should be able to drink our water. There's confusion going

467
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 1: on in Ohio and Pennsylvania right now, you know, people

468
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 1: saying all that rash is and it isn't important, it's

469
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,679
Speaker 1: not so bad. And then cameras showed get fish and

470
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 1: wildlife in a creek. Right People's pets are dying. We

471
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:57,439
Speaker 1: actually last week we had the incredible Aaron Brockovich on

472
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 1: this podcast and she said that she had been told

473
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 1: that people's pets were dying, which struck me as really bad.

474
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 1: And Aaron, today, I'm in Ohio right now. She is

475
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 1: at ground zero. She's there today. Where do we go

476
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,919
Speaker 1: from here? What do we do? Obviously the railroads are

477
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 1: going to pay up the gazoo for this, and they

478
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:21,400
Speaker 1: fucking should excuse my fringe, absolutely full agreement, and it'll

479
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:25,120
Speaker 1: be raining class action suits. What does the Biden administration?

480
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 1: I would have this public spokesperson. It's unusual for a

481
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:31,160
Speaker 1: White House to farm it out, but I would now

482
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 1: let Shared Brown be the voice for the White House.

483
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,920
Speaker 1: I would appoint him. He's loved in Ohio because he's

484
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:41,639
Speaker 1: very good at constituent politics. And if he goes and

485
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 1: puts his arm around the mare and visits with people,

486
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:48,920
Speaker 1: he has credibility in Ohio as being a compassionate senator

487
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 1: who cares about environmental justice issues. So I think he

488
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,479
Speaker 1: has to be elevated. Now. I'm afraid Biden Harrison Buddha

489
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 1: jugs that wots their window to be the voice of this. Yeah,

490
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 1: it's really interesting, and I mean you say this as

491
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,440
Speaker 1: we are both fans of Biden. But I think in

492
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,439
Speaker 1: my mind there a number of issues here, and the

493
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 1: biggest one is, you know, how do we protect the

494
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 1: land in Ohio and the people who are there. I mean,

495
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,360
Speaker 1: do you have any sense on what the plan there is?

496
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 1: The first thing that has to happen is FEMA never

497
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:23,680
Speaker 1: should have said they're not going to be there. It's

498
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:27,159
Speaker 1: not in their Ballywick. FEMA presence should have been everywhere.

499
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 1: There's going to have to be a shakedown. Even Nixon

500
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:35,159
Speaker 1: would shakedown polluters after Kuyahoga and make him pay. The

501
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 1: White House and cher Brown have to be the voice

502
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 1: of anger that this has gone on for this many weeks,

503
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 1: that people are telling you that the idea was minimize

504
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:47,159
Speaker 1: it and let people get back in their houses. But

505
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,679
Speaker 1: any mother and father with children would be terrified within

506
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 1: a hundred mile area here of whether you would want

507
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 1: to be there, putting your child's long term risk of cancer, leukemia,

508
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 1: and on and on at risk. So it happened. It's

509
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,479
Speaker 1: not an immediate solution. We're obviously going to be a

510
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,919
Speaker 1: massive cleanup effort, but there everybody that lives in that

511
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 1: community needs to be paid. In my book, I wrote

512
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 1: about nineteen forty eight Dinorah, Pennsylvania, where the factories there.

513
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 1: It was so polluted. One day and the summer, you know,

514
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 1: it was hot, and everybody in the community of Dinora

515
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 1: got sick. Twenty people died a respiratory illness, and it

516
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 1: became where the word smog was born. There's even a

517
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,640
Speaker 1: little museum in DeNora, Pennsylvania for the history of smog.

518
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 1: But that triggered a look at why can't we breathe

519
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 1: in New York City through the smog? Why is laf smog?

520
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 1: And it led to December nineteen sixty three Clean Air Act,

521
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 1: which attacked stationary pollution of factories. We now are going

522
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 1: to have to look at the railroad industry in a

523
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 1: new light. This utter recklessness by the Norfolk, Southern folk.

524
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 1: I mean, it is a really interesting opportunity for legislators

525
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 1: to remind all of us why they exist right why

526
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 1: the government needs to regulate things. The thing I wanted

527
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 1: to actually ask you about was Nixon and the EPA,

528
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 1: because that seems very counterintuitive. Well, I know, and that's

529
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 1: what I mean to your point, Molly, when you said

530
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 1: these crises can get you know, they're very very likely

531
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 1: in Ohio right now. JD. Vance and Shared Brown can

532
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 1: get on the same page. It's that's not far betched

533
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 1: on this issue. But Nixon decided to work with Henry M.

534
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 1: Jackson Scoop Jackson, Democrat from Washington, who was just won

535
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 1: the North Cascades National Park Battle and was an environmentalist.

536
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: Nixon worked with Jackson because Jackson did not criticize the

537
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 1: Vietnam War. Where George McGovern you, Jim McCarthy, Gaylord Nelson,

538
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 1: I can name you twenty Democrats that were denouncing Nixon's

539
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 1: policy in Southeast Asia, Jackson didn't. Nixon worked with Jackson,

540
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 1: and in April twenty second, nineteen seventy, we had Earth Day,

541
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 1: the first one, and Nixon saw that there were these

542
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 1: teachings everywhere, and he ended up planning a tree on

543
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 1: Earth Day and giving Interior Department employees the day off.

544
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 1: He was worried that they were gonna it was an

545
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 1: anti war trick Earth Day, but when it came and

546
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 1: went and it seemed to be a positive Earth consciousness event.

547
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 1: Nixon in the summer of nineteen seventy worked with Democrat

548
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 1: Scoop Jackson and Congressman John Dingle of Michigan, and they

549
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 1: cobbled together EPA and it opened its doors in December

550
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy and under its first director, Administrator William Ruckles House,

551
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 1: it was awesome. The first EPA and seventy they did

552
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 1: bus polluters. They became law enforcement, going after companies, ruckle houses.

553
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 1: EPA would have been all over this in Ohio right

554
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 1: now in a very large way. Now, Nixon later thought

555
00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 1: ruckles House was a loose cannon. A longer story, but

556
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 1: you know, Nixon ended up banning DDT. He didn't want to,

557
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 1: but the public demanded it, and his own EPA said

558
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 1: he had to. So I think the Biden administration is

559
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 1: going to get on the page here in the right ways.

560
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 1: But they've lost a communication opportunity to show the empathy

561
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 1: of the moment they needed, and so they're operating out

562
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 1: of a deficit right now, and they've allowed their opponents,

563
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 1: the GOP, to take some major punches at them. And

564
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 1: you know, it's indisputable they didn't move quickly enough there,

565
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 1: at least in a symbolic way, right And it is

566
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 1: interesting nobody is going to accuse the Republican Party of

567
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:44,239
Speaker 1: being interested in environmental protection right or regulation, which are

568
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 1: the two things that need to happen now. So it

569
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 1: does feel really important that Democrats reclaim this. I agree,

570
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 1: and I think Shared Brown's the man. He's a running

571
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 1: for reelection for the Senate in twenty twenty four Ohio

572
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 1: is becoming a Republican state. He's got a hold on

573
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 1: to a Senate seat. I know sheared Brown quite well.

574
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 1: In fact, I know he w we knowed. He's reading

575
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 1: my book Silent Spring Revolution. Oh yeah, he really cares

576
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 1: about what's going on there. And so I think if

577
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 1: he becomes the voice of the Democrats in Ohio like

578
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 1: Mike DeWine was doing for the Republicans, and I think

579
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 1: that there can be a bipartisan consensus here on how

580
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 1: to regulate these railroad companies that are bringing toxic chemicals

581
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 1: through states at very rapid speeds. And they've done budget

582
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 1: cuts and got rid of employees on these train companies

583
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,959
Speaker 1: that are carrying the toxic chemicals. And there's something always

584
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 1: bad happens when you start downsizing jobs better involved lethal

585
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 1: chemicals or industrial debris. Yeah, exactly. Thank you so much,

586
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 1: Doug Brinkley. We're gonna want to have you back hey anytime,

587
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 1: Molly adoreya and I love your podcast and keep it going.

588
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 1: Oh you, our dear listeners are very busy, and you

589
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 1: don't have time to sort through the hundreds of pieces

590
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 1: of pundentry each week. This is why every week I

591
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 1: put together a newsletter of my five favorite articles on politics.

592
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 1: If you enjoy the podcast, you will love having this

593
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 1: in your inbox every Friday. So sign up at Fast

594
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 1: Politics pod dot com and click the tab to join

595
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 1: our mailing list. That's Fast politicspod dot com. Mike Damaski

596
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 1: is the editor of The New Republic. Welcome to Fast Politics,

597
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 1: my favorite friend, Mike Damaski. Hey, hey, I want to

598
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 1: talk to you about this unprecedented time in American history.

599
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 1: I would think of you as someone who has like

600
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 1: a long memory old ye, do give me a precedent

601
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 1: for what the fuck is happening here? Also weekend Curse. Yeah, well,

602
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 1: it's fucking crazy. There's not much precedent really. You know,

603
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 1: people point to the eighteen fifties. I guess, but I

604
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 1: think I've always said this is worse than the eighteen fifties,

605
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,839
Speaker 1: because at least in the eighteen fifty they were kind

606
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 1: of arguing about the same set of facts. They disagreed

607
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 1: about slavery, but neither disputed the essential facts of the

608
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 1: slave trade. There was just one side that was against it.

609
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:22,800
Speaker 1: In one side thought it was fine, and so on

610
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 1: and so on and so on. Now we're not talking

611
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 1: at all about the same set of facts, you know,

612
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 1: I mean, you watch MSNBC and CNN one night, and

613
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 1: then if we brought somebody here either from like another

614
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 1: planet or from a you know, a remotish civilization somewhere,

615
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 1: and asked them to watch MSNBC the first night, CNN

616
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,240
Speaker 1: the second night, and Fox News the third night, they'd say, well,

617
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 1: the first two nights were pretty similar, and we're describing

618
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 1: a certain world, but the third night was just describing

619
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 1: a completely different place, right right, Yeah, in that sense,

620
00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 1: we're much farther apart than they were in eighteen fifty nine,

621
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 1: in eighteen sixty. Well, that's what I wanted to ask

622
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 1: you about, because when we're talking about this idea of like,

623
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 1: I mean, you were there, as was I in nineteen

624
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:17,479
Speaker 1: ninety seven when Fox News started. It was the same

625
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 1: year that MSNBC started and the networks at that time.

626
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:25,280
Speaker 1: There were liberals on Fox. You know there are liberals

627
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 1: today on Fox too. Yeah, there was one liberal on Fox.

628
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 1: Let's not get carried away, Molly. There was Combs Alan Colmes,

629
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 1: right right, and his job was to be Sean Hannity's doormat.

630
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 1: You know, we know that, whereas on MSNBC, who was

631
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 1: on Laura Ingram was on MSNBC. Wow. Yeah, people forget

632
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:50,880
Speaker 1: that MSNBC didn't become the MSNBC we know until well

633
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 1: into the Bush years. I always wonder what the chicken

634
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:56,920
Speaker 1: or the egg here is, Like, did Fox News create

635
00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 1: this or did this create Fox News? Yeah? I think

636
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 1: this created Fox News. But let's define this. This was

637
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 1: the Rupert Murdoch empire first of all, that started out

638
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,320
Speaker 1: very small, started out with the New York Post and

639
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,840
Speaker 1: included New York Magazine, include the Village Voice for a

640
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:16,840
Speaker 1: little while. And he didn't try he didn't try to

641
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:18,840
Speaker 1: turn the Village Voice right wing. He just wanted to

642
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 1: make money off the Village Voice and then he sold it.

643
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:26,359
Speaker 1: So this was spearheaded by Murdoch and then also spearheaded

644
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,400
Speaker 1: by the end of the fairness doctrine in the Reagan

645
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 1: years and the rise of right wing radio, right wing

646
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 1: talk radio and Christian talk radio, which people a lot

647
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 1: of people thought wasn't going to succeed at all, and

648
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:42,880
Speaker 1: of course has. So those things were the first steps

649
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 1: in the right wing media. And Fox was just seeing

650
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 1: a market opportunity, Fox News seeing a market opportunity and

651
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,400
Speaker 1: inserting themselves into it. Right. That is sort of the

652
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 1: sense that I was getting is that Murdoch is in

653
00:36:56,719 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 1: many ways just a mercenary, and that while he may

654
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:07,240
Speaker 1: be ideologically right wing, she is chasing the dollar ultimately. Yeah,

655
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 1: and you know we've learned that. We learned that never

656
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:13,080
Speaker 1: more emphatically than we learned it last week. Yes, the

657
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 1: dominion soon. Yeah, with that court filing, I mean they

658
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:20,439
Speaker 1: openly said to each other, we can't lose market share

659
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 1: to Newsmax. We can't lose market share to Newsmax. We

660
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 1: know Trump is peddling a bunch of bullshit, but we

661
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 1: can't lose viewers to Newsmax. Let's play this, you know,

662
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 1: without exactly endorsing. Let's let's play this with kid gloves.

663
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:39,360
Speaker 1: But of course they did go on to exactly endorse.

664
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 1: You know, a lot of the hosts completely endorse the

665
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:44,839
Speaker 1: big lie, completely gay space to it. And it's not

666
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,840
Speaker 1: just if you read through that filing. It's not just

667
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:52,799
Speaker 1: Carlson and Ingram and Hannerty, it's other people, notably Bardaromo.

668
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:55,400
Speaker 1: I mean, she comes off so poorly. I think I

669
00:37:55,800 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 1: never understood what happened to her. Yeah, how much money

670
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 1: does she make a year. That's probably what happened to her, right, Okay,

671
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 1: hey got it. I could give you sixteen million reasons

672
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 1: why she did or whatever the number is, you know,

673
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:15,839
Speaker 1: all right, but it is like very clear when you

674
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 1: look at the filing just how much this was a

675
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:25,880
Speaker 1: calculated decision on the part of these Fox anchors. Yeah,

676
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 1: and they played it along for weeks and weeks and

677
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 1: weeks and you know, so they let people go on

678
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,880
Speaker 1: their air saying stuff that they knew to be false.

679
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 1: Let's stop, take a step back. These are alleged journalists

680
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 1: doing alleged journalism, and they let person after person after

681
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 1: person go on their air and say false things and

682
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 1: say crazy thing things they knew to be to have

683
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 1: no basis in fact. That wasn't about you know, whether

684
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 1: the New England Patriots inflated footballs or not. You know,

685
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 1: it was about the most important serious matters that democracy. Yeah, democracy,

686
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 1: the most important thing we confront as a country. And

687
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 1: they let these lies go on for weeks and weeks

688
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 1: and weeks and weeks, and they still go on, and

689
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:15,920
Speaker 1: they now have been caught I think, you know, red handed.

690
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:18,759
Speaker 1: But we'll see what happens. I mean, it's you know,

691
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 1: it's it's hard to convict rich people of anything in

692
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:24,800
Speaker 1: this country. And I'm not arguing with that, that's certainly true.

693
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:27,239
Speaker 1: But the other thing that I think is pretty interesting

694
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 1: is that here we are where there's a percentage of

695
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 1: the population that really needs to now hear that they

696
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 1: were lying, and they will not hear that on Fox News.

697
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 1: Oh no, of course not. I still think back to

698
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:42,960
Speaker 1: that woman. Oh when was this? Oh it was it

699
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 1: was about the Muller Report. Do you remember that they

700
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 1: had that clip of that woman who only watched Fox

701
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:50,279
Speaker 1: News and she said, well, I was aware that the

702
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:53,360
Speaker 1: Muller Report said anything critical about Donald Trump? Where are

703
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 1: you getting that? Where are you getting that? And it's

704
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, I'd love to do a poll

705
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 1: sometime of MSNBC and the n end viewers on the

706
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 1: one hand versus foxnewers on the other hand, and just

707
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:05,759
Speaker 1: ask them what they know about the world, you know,

708
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:08,400
Speaker 1: not only about you know, the twenty twenty election, but like,

709
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:13,240
Speaker 1: you know, how old is the earth, you know, because

710
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 1: it's different universes? Yeah, definitely, well, and it's almost so

711
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 1: I think more importantly, there's no way to reconcile these

712
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 1: two things. No, and you know it's just gotten worse

713
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 1: and worse and worse. You know, we referred to you

714
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:34,879
Speaker 1: referred to my fans, to my years of experience. I mean,

715
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:39,320
Speaker 1: I remember when all this started, and yeah, they created

716
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 1: a kind of a different reality. And of course they

717
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:46,439
Speaker 1: always seized on, you know, some out there left wing

718
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 1: professor who said something kind of crazy, and then they

719
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 1: made that seem to their viewers as if every liberal

720
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:54,839
Speaker 1: believed that and did that and thought that. Now that's

721
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 1: practically all they do. You know, it used to be

722
00:40:57,800 --> 00:40:59,959
Speaker 1: part of the mix of what they did, but now

723
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 1: it's just about all they do. And it works. I Mean,

724
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 1: the thing that I'm struck by is the culture wars

725
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:12,719
Speaker 1: work well to distract from bad policies. Yeah. One of

726
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 1: the things, Molly, that frustrates me more than anything else

727
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:20,880
Speaker 1: in political life today is that when people are asked

728
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:23,360
Speaker 1: the question by posters, which party do you think is

729
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,400
Speaker 1: better for the economy, they always say Republicans by anywhere

730
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:29,240
Speaker 1: from seven to fifteen points. And whether it's a Democratic

731
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 1: president or a Republican president, whether the economy happens to

732
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 1: be good at the moment or bad at the moment,

733
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:37,279
Speaker 1: they always say Republicans. The facts are that if you

734
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:42,440
Speaker 1: look over the last several administrations at job creation, growth

735
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:47,760
Speaker 1: in media and household income, gross domestic product increase, stock

736
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 1: market increase, everything, deficit reduction, handling of the deficit, the

737
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:57,279
Speaker 1: numbers with Democratic presidents are like far superior to the

738
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 1: numbers with Republican presidents, far far superior. Nobody knows that

739
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 1: that's the Democrat's fault, not the Republicans. They should be

740
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:07,399
Speaker 1: talking about it a lot more than they do. So

741
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:10,319
Speaker 1: that's number one. Number two. Now here, we have a

742
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:15,000
Speaker 1: Democratic president passing, getting infrastructure jobs, jobs on the ground,

743
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:21,240
Speaker 1: getting these infrastructure projects done, building chips and microprocessing plants

744
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 1: in the United States again, moving those jobs away from China,

745
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:27,840
Speaker 1: starting to try to build things more in the United States,

746
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 1: make the federal government buy things that are American. Twelve

747
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:33,800
Speaker 1: and a half million jobs in his first two years

748
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 1: in office. Some of that's luck coincides with coming back

749
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 1: after the pandemic, but still twelve and a half million

750
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 1: jobs in two years. Nobody's ever come anywhere near that,

751
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 1: And all of these good economic indicators, wages going up,

752
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 1: inflation now abating. The Republicans still people still reflectively think

753
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:55,920
Speaker 1: Republicans are the party of the economy. It's a disaster,

754
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 1: and it ties to the cultural stuff because they keep

755
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:01,239
Speaker 1: that culture stuff in front of people's faces, so they

756
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:04,360
Speaker 1: don't notice the economic stuff, right right, No, No, I

757
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 1: mean that is we're finding ourselves in this complete kind

758
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:13,919
Speaker 1: of world where what happens and what people think are

759
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:17,319
Speaker 1: two different things. Right. Yeah. There are just these perceptions

760
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:19,959
Speaker 1: that people have that are so baked in to their

761
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,799
Speaker 1: ideas about the parties and their ideas about you know,

762
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 1: what they hear on the news or the quote unquote news.

763
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:29,120
Speaker 1: It's just really hard to dislodge that ship. I mean,

764
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:32,440
Speaker 1: how would you theoretically do that if you wanted to,

765
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:35,279
Speaker 1: if you could, well, I mean the first thing I

766
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:37,319
Speaker 1: would do is that I would I would like if

767
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:42,879
Speaker 1: I were the president or the emperor or something. Yeah, yes, God, emperor,

768
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 1: king of whatever it is. The first thing I would

769
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 1: do is I would over and over and over again,

770
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:52,360
Speaker 1: I would tout those statistics. And I know a lot

771
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:54,919
Speaker 1: of people don't pay attention to statistics, but once they've

772
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 1: heard them for the ten thousandth time, I do think

773
00:43:57,600 --> 00:43:59,719
Speaker 1: they begin to make a difference in people's heads. You know,

774
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:04,360
Speaker 1: people under the last sixteen years of Democratic presidencies, thirty

775
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 1: four million jobs have been created. Under the last sixteen

776
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:11,040
Speaker 1: years of Republican presidencies, one points eight million jobs have

777
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 1: been created. Those are the numbers, people, Those are the numbers.

778
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 1: They don't lie. These are the numbers. Democrats are better

779
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:20,839
Speaker 1: at the economy. Republicans are better at the economy. For

780
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 1: rich people, Democrats are better at the economy. So that's

781
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 1: the first thing I do. Just have Democrats say that

782
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:30,799
Speaker 1: every single day in every venue that they possibly can.

783
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:34,719
Speaker 1: So that starts it. And then I guess the other

784
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 1: thing I do is just and I mean this takes

785
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 1: a little bit of work and a couple of more

786
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 1: wins at the polls. But let's say by twenty twenty four,

787
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:47,799
Speaker 1: if Biden wins reelection, and if the Democrats retake the House,

788
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:50,879
Speaker 1: and if they manage to hold the Senate, which most

789
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:52,680
Speaker 1: people don't think they're going to do because the Senate

790
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 1: map is pretty rough. But if they manage to do

791
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:57,560
Speaker 1: all those things, then the first thing that they have

792
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:00,399
Speaker 1: to do is get rid of the filibuster and just

793
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 1: start passing stuff. You know, raise the minimum wage, do

794
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 1: something about overtime pay, expand medicare to include dental and

795
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 1: glasses and go after prescription drug. Make insulent free. They

796
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:16,280
Speaker 1: can make insulent free. That they've capped it at thirty

797
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 1: five dollars, that's nice, but make it free. It's actually

798
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 1: not that expensive. It's a few billion dollars a year

799
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:25,720
Speaker 1: to make insulent free. Do these things show the people

800
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 1: that you can actually deliver stuff for them. But it

801
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:33,719
Speaker 1: requires getting rid of the filibuster, because that way you

802
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:37,279
Speaker 1: don't need sixty votes. And if God willing, they have

803
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:40,719
Speaker 1: fifty two Democratic centers or fifty three. If they have

804
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:45,439
Speaker 1: fifty three, then mansion and cinema are irrelevant, or even

805
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 1: at fifty two because they just need fifty plus the

806
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:50,720
Speaker 1: vice president breaking the time, then they can do these things.

807
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:54,719
Speaker 1: But you know, they just they really blew an opportunity

808
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:57,759
Speaker 1: by not doing anything about that filibuster. Can we talk

809
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:02,920
Speaker 1: about George Santos? Yeah, I mean, is there any precedent

810
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:05,880
Speaker 1: for George Santos? There must be, right, a serial fabulous

811
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:10,840
Speaker 1: The president for George Santos is George Santos he or

812
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 1: George Santos is president? Yeah, right, right right? I mean,

813
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:17,439
Speaker 1: as he just told Pierre Morgan, he said, why why Yeah,

814
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 1: why should I have told the truth in twenty twenty two?

815
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 1: I lied in twenty twenty and I got away with it. Then, Yeah,

816
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:25,120
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, So the question is and

817
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 1: now we've got three. So there's that guy Andy Ogles

818
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:30,840
Speaker 1: or whatever his name is. Yeah, he also right, Andy

819
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 1: Ogles is also a serial fabulous. Yeah. And then there's

820
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 1: the woman Luna, who's not exactly a serial fabulous but

821
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:40,200
Speaker 1: lied about her heritage. So now we've got three. In

822
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:45,479
Speaker 1: journalism school, you know that constitutes a pattern. I told

823
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:50,000
Speaker 1: there would not be math. Well that's just three, Molly.

824
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:54,640
Speaker 1: You have to ask why are there are these people?

825
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 1: And why are they all Republicans? Now? Are there democratic

826
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 1: liars in the world and resume patterns of You're right there,

827
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:06,840
Speaker 1: of course, of course, of course there are college issues.

828
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 1: Never of course there are democratic resume patters. But why

829
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:13,920
Speaker 1: is it that the only cases we have before us

830
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:18,359
Speaker 1: are Republicans. Well, there are probably some valid theories about that.

831
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:20,839
Speaker 1: They lie about all kinds of shit. So when you

832
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 1: start lying about the world, eventually you're going to start

833
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:26,799
Speaker 1: lying about yourself. I also think that it's interesting that

834
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:31,720
Speaker 1: two of these three Santos and Luna are non white,

835
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:36,520
Speaker 1: and Republicans are so desperate to show that they're diverse

836
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:38,839
Speaker 1: and to show that they have people of color who

837
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:41,680
Speaker 1: are conservative that they don't give a crap about what

838
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:45,719
Speaker 1: their credentials are. It is interesting to me, Like, you

839
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:49,799
Speaker 1: lay down with Trump. Trump is your guy, right, you

840
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:52,400
Speaker 1: know he is a serial fabulous. I mean, you know,

841
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 1: maybe he's not a serial fabulous, but basically, you know,

842
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 1: I would not go to that person for any trustworthy

843
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 1: source of information, or would many of his advisors, friends

844
00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:06,399
Speaker 1: or relatives. So clearly, like the message here is this

845
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:09,960
Speaker 1: is okay. I mean I wonder about like the people

846
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 1: in the Republican Party. I often think about this, like

847
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 1: the people like a kind of I mean, I don't

848
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:18,000
Speaker 1: want to say new Gangridge. I'm thinking more along the

849
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:23,200
Speaker 1: lines of like someone smart, like the guy who wanted

850
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:28,239
Speaker 1: to like drown the government in a bathtub. Norquest, Right,

851
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:31,239
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about north Quest, Like Norquest went along with

852
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:35,359
Speaker 1: Trump because it was working, right. Yeah, But like I

853
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:38,799
Speaker 1: wonder if these people ever made the larger calculus that like,

854
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:44,399
Speaker 1: while we're doing this, we're completely screwing ourselves, you know,

855
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:47,040
Speaker 1: in a million different ways. Yeah, they had to know

856
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:49,279
Speaker 1: I mean, I know Grover a bit. He is a

857
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:53,279
Speaker 1: smart guy. He actually did go to Harvard. But no,

858
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 1: he's very smart. That's why I brought him up, because

859
00:48:56,320 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 1: he's like very smart, ideologically very conservative, and people like that.

860
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:03,640
Speaker 1: You have to have made a sort of Faustian deal

861
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 1: that you were just going to do it. Yeah. I

862
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:08,279
Speaker 1: think they all just thought, you know, we can get

863
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:10,759
Speaker 1: away with this and just hope the roof doesn't cave

864
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 1: in on us. And meanwhile we're getting our judges and

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00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:16,400
Speaker 1: you know, man, he's doing you know, he's doing whatever

866
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 1: else he's doing with respect to I don't know his

867
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:22,319
Speaker 1: moves in Israel they like that, and cutting taxes they

868
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:28,640
Speaker 1: love that, obviously. Yeah, they didn't anticipate January sixth. They

869
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:31,759
Speaker 1: didn't anticipate an attempted coup. They didn't anticipate that he'd

870
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 1: actually want people to kill his vice president. And yet

871
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 1: he's the front runner for the nominee. Yeah. I think

872
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:39,040
Speaker 1: he's a front runner for the nominee. Or and if

873
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:41,120
Speaker 1: he's not the nominee, I think we're going to have

874
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:45,640
Speaker 1: mini Trump. Yeah, meet ball Ron, Thank you, thank you,

875
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:48,760
Speaker 1: thank you. I hope you will come back of course anytime.

876
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 1: Thanks Molly John Fast, Jesse Cannon. Remember how much Trump

877
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:03,320
Speaker 1: pers expected that pledge about not running in another party

878
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:05,440
Speaker 1: when they tried to get him to do it in

879
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:08,680
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, and he basically just embarrassed the blood stage.

880
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:15,440
Speaker 1: That was fun. So Rona Romney RNC chair, yet again,

881
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 1: has decided that she's going to make all the candidates

882
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 1: sign a pledge saying they're going to support whoever wins

883
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:25,080
Speaker 1: the nomination. But let me tell you, there's only one

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00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:28,799
Speaker 1: candidate she really cares about getting to sign it, and

885
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:31,840
Speaker 1: that candidate ain't going to sign it. You know. It

886
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 1: reminds me of the old George Bush. Fool me once,

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00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:39,879
Speaker 1: shame on you fool me twice, shame on you don't

888
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:44,480
Speaker 1: get to fool again. And that is a verbatim quote

889
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:47,520
Speaker 1: from George W. Bush. Don't get to fool me again,

890
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:52,640
Speaker 1: except with Ronna. That's it for this episode of Fast Politics.

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00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:55,920
Speaker 1: Tune in every Monday, Wednesday and Friday to hear the

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00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:59,320
Speaker 1: best minds in politics makes sense of all this chaos.

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00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:02,239
Speaker 1: If you enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to

894
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 1: a friend and keep the conversation going. And again, thanks

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00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:06,320
Speaker 1: for listening.