WEBVTT - Gold Star Anxiety 0:00:08.520 --> 0:00:11.360 This is the Anxiety Bites podcast and I am your host, 0:00:11.520 --> 0:00:17.960 Jen Kirkman. Welcome to another episode of Anxiety Bites. I'm 0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:21.280 your host Jen Kirkman. Today I'm talking to my friend 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:25.560 Judy Gold. Judy Gold is a hilarious comedian, just an actress. 0:00:25.960 --> 0:00:28.240 I'll get into all of that in a moment now. 0:00:28.280 --> 0:00:32.200 As you know, this is a podcast about anxiety hosted 0:00:32.200 --> 0:00:34.159 by a comedian, but I don't mean it to be 0:00:34.200 --> 0:00:36.960 a comedy podcast. I certainly didn't want it to be. 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:40.640 I interview comedians with anxiety, but I have had a few. 0:00:40.680 --> 0:00:44.159 On this season. Judy will be the final comedian in 0:00:44.200 --> 0:00:48.080 my three comedian series. I talked to my friend Andy 0:00:48.200 --> 0:00:51.640 Keindler and Chelsea Handler as well. But I've known Judy 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:55.680 a long time, and you know, it's just it wasn't 0:00:55.760 --> 0:00:59.160 until maybe a few years ago when we talked about it, 0:00:59.320 --> 0:01:03.360 or I don't remember. I mean maybe not just a 0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:05.880 few years ago, but within the last ten years where 0:01:05.880 --> 0:01:10.840 I realized she had anxiety and depression. And it's I 0:01:10.840 --> 0:01:13.320 don't know why I didn't think that, because I'm not 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:16.679 saying every comedian has that, but I've again known her 0:01:16.720 --> 0:01:21.080 for a long time, and I'm sure she talks about 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:23.520 her anxiety on stage. She's just such a big presence 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:26.200 in that she's and I mean, this is the best 0:01:26.200 --> 0:01:30.360 of ways. She's loud, and she's funny, and she's confident, 0:01:30.480 --> 0:01:33.080 or at least she's doing a damn good job pretending 0:01:33.080 --> 0:01:35.000 to be confident. But I've watched her work as a 0:01:35.040 --> 0:01:37.720 stand up since I moved to New York, and was 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:42.760 this shaky little thing trying to act like I was confident, 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:45.760 And and I really looked up to Judy, And I 0:01:45.760 --> 0:01:47.520 know if she were listening to this, she's going to 0:01:47.600 --> 0:01:51.040 be like, you're making me sound old. But Judy was 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:54.040 always very kind to me. And you know, I'm honestly 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:56.559 like a lot of times people with anxiety or depression there, 0:01:57.080 --> 0:01:59.480 they're not always just kind to people. You know, a 0:01:59.480 --> 0:02:01.760 lot of times you in your own head or yourself 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:05.320 medicating with alcolors something, and then that changes your behavior, 0:02:05.440 --> 0:02:08.800 or you're really withdrawn and shy, or you're depressed and 0:02:08.840 --> 0:02:12.040 sort of just over it. And and I never experienced 0:02:12.040 --> 0:02:13.800 that with her. So it's not like I was shocked 0:02:13.800 --> 0:02:15.960 when I found out she had depression and anxiety. I 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:20.680 just went, oh, oh, that's right. Yet another reminder that 0:02:22.000 --> 0:02:24.520 you never can tell you can't judge it by someone 0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:27.120 who doesn't seem freaked out to be on a stage. 0:02:27.160 --> 0:02:29.520 I mean that that's a job. You know, I'm not 0:02:29.560 --> 0:02:32.359 freaked out to be on stage, but I don't necessarily 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:38.799 like I don't know, driving over a bridge to get there. Anyway. 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:39.920 Every once in a while, I like to do an 0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:42.920 episode where it's conversational, where you know, we're not talking 0:02:42.960 --> 0:02:45.240 to a neuroscientist or a therapist or someone who can 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:51.880 explain why everything comes together and forms anxiety, but rather 0:02:51.960 --> 0:02:54.600 more of an experiential thing. You know, someone who's saying, oh, well, 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:56.640 I grew up this way and I didn't realize until 0:02:56.720 --> 0:02:58.720 later that this was that, and that was this, and 0:02:58.960 --> 0:03:03.799 that affects this, and you know, there's this um thing. 0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:06.360 I think that happens when when you talk to a 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:12.320 lot of smart people, if you're listening and you're thinking, oh, okay, 0:03:12.360 --> 0:03:15.000 I guess god, if I had known this sooner, and 0:03:15.040 --> 0:03:17.080 then maybe I could have started to get better quicker. 0:03:17.120 --> 0:03:18.640 And I just don't think it totally works that way. 0:03:18.639 --> 0:03:20.520 I think you just have to live your life, live 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:24.880 your experiences, and sort of slowly go through life and 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:27.880 try and fail at different things, whether it's some kind 0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:32.239 of social life, work life, and then start to realize 0:03:33.040 --> 0:03:36.040 what your pathology is or what your habits are, and 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:38.560 realize are these mine or these maladaptive things that I 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:41.280 learned from my parents? Okay, now I have to trade 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:44.240 them in for some new tools. I do think that 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:46.680 knowledge is power, but knowledge is not everything. You just 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:50.760 kind of have to live and see and experience. And 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:54.280 so Judy and I are all over the place, you know, 0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:56.400 we we both have a d H D. And as 0:03:56.480 --> 0:03:58.480 Judy says, she's a d D D D D D 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:00.760 D D. Like we're all over the place. We're talking 0:04:00.760 --> 0:04:05.240 everything from you know, the generational trauma she experienced too 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:08.040 when she came out at the closet, and you know 0:04:08.080 --> 0:04:11.839 what society was like back then? Oh my god, she's 0:04:11.880 --> 0:04:14.720 so old. Did I mentioned what society was like? How 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:17.039 how different you know it is now? What it's like 0:04:17.160 --> 0:04:20.599 being a mom, what it's like being someone who had 0:04:20.640 --> 0:04:23.279 a very anxious mom, who never got treated for anxiety? 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:25.880 How do you break the cycle? Do you break the cycle? 0:04:26.000 --> 0:04:30.440 And then what does she do now? Um too kind 0:04:30.440 --> 0:04:33.880 of keep the maladaptive behaviors at bay? What does what 0:04:33.920 --> 0:04:36.839 does she do to self soothe? And you're going to 0:04:37.800 --> 0:04:42.280 not be surprised that it's the thing that everybody says 0:04:42.320 --> 0:04:46.760 that we need to do, which is connection with others, breathing, meditating. 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:48.960 I mean, I hate to say it. I could do 0:04:48.960 --> 0:04:50.640 a hundred more of these episodes and we're just going 0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:53.159 to keep coming back to those basics, right, But it 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:55.039 was really fun to talk to Judy, and I think 0:04:55.080 --> 0:04:59.200 she's a great example of just keep walking through whatever 0:04:59.240 --> 0:05:01.040 you're going through. Your going to come out the other 0:05:01.080 --> 0:05:04.960 side stronger and smarter. And if you can be as 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:09.279 funny as Judy while you're doing it, then you've really 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:14.320 you've really won the mental health battle. So without further ado, 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:17.840 I hope you just have a fun time listening to 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:21.440 me talk with Judy and we talk about bullying, which 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:24.760 is something that I haven't really talked about on this 0:05:24.800 --> 0:05:28.000 podcast before. There is an upcoming episode where I get 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:32.640 into um bullying a little bit deeper, talking to a 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:35.520 therapist and author about you know, why why does it 0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:39.479 stay with us when we know we don't actually you know, 0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:45.440 we don't actually absorb the opinions of bullies that were 0:05:45.440 --> 0:05:46.880 mean to us as kids. I mean, maybe we did 0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:49.560 as a kid, but as an adult, we we know better. 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:51.880 We don't care. We might even see these people on Facebook. 0:05:52.640 --> 0:05:55.200 You know, they seem to have forgotten the whole thing, 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:57.560 and uh so what does that mean? It stays with 0:05:57.640 --> 0:05:58.800 us so that I'll be talking about that in a 0:05:58.839 --> 0:06:00.760 future episode, but for now, it's a duty. And I 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:05.480 kind of talking about how bullying shaped us in a 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:10.120 way where there's this anxiety that comes from not being 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:12.960 able to control others in that sense of how do 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:17.080 you get to act like this and and like no 0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:19.440 one's gonna do anything about this, and and then just 0:06:19.520 --> 0:06:21.800 even growing up and seeing these people, like I said 0:06:21.800 --> 0:06:24.560 earlier on Facebook and going so you just get to 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:27.120 have bullied someone in your whole life and then that's it. 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:30.240 I mean, not even an apology would do. It's like 0:06:30.240 --> 0:06:31.760 you almost want these people to like have to sit 0:06:31.800 --> 0:06:33.719 down to their family and go Okay. When I was younger, 0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:36.719 I did this, I just judy and I realized that 0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:41.360 one thing we have in common that came from being 0:06:41.400 --> 0:06:45.640 anxious people and people who maybe felt misunderstood or picked on, 0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:48.160 was the sense of justice. I think I talked about 0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:52.159 it with my other friend Andy Killer. Maybe this somehow 0:06:52.200 --> 0:06:54.119 goes hand in hand with being a comedian. I'm not sure, 0:06:54.760 --> 0:06:58.560 but we just want to make things right that aren't 0:06:58.880 --> 0:07:01.040 in our lives and in the war old and when 0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:06.000 we can't, it's like we don't except that we can't 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:08.200 control the bigger things in life. You know, it's so 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:12.440 endlessly frustrating. So people like us, and if you're like us, 0:07:12.640 --> 0:07:15.280 you really need to find ways to self soothe and 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:21.360 of course laugh. So again, so excited to have Judy 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:24.200 on this show. And I will stop talking so that 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:25.840 you can go listen to her. But let me just 0:07:25.920 --> 0:07:29.360 tell you a little more about Judy Gold. She's a 0:07:29.400 --> 0:07:32.320 stand up comedian obviously, as I said, she started in 0:07:32.720 --> 0:07:36.240 critically acclaimed one woman hit off Broadway shows. She's the 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:39.320 author of Yes I Can Say That When they come 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:41.600 for the Comedians were all in Trouble. It's a great 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:47.160 book she wrote years and years ago. Um that sort 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:49.880 of predicted where we are today in many ways about 0:07:50.200 --> 0:07:52.640 you know, debates about what we can and can't joke about. 0:07:53.160 --> 0:07:57.840 And she is the host of the very funny podcast 0:07:58.000 --> 0:08:00.480 Kill Me Now, where she always asks her guests if 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:03.280 they're on any kind of mental health medication. Judy has 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:06.560 acted in so many TV shows. Most recently she was 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:09.880 on FX is Better Things, and she's in the new 0:08:09.920 --> 0:08:16.960 Showtime series Flotus. So let's go to my conversation. Oh 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:20.800 my god, oh my god, oh my god. What is it? 0:08:22.720 --> 0:08:26.320 I have this new Bluetooth speaker that I play music 0:08:26.360 --> 0:08:28.960 out of and it is just talking to me and 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:32.520 I don't like it at all, and if I okay anyway, 0:08:32.600 --> 0:08:33.839 but I'm not going to edit that out because I 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:37.720 think it's funny. So without further ado, my conversation with Judy. 0:08:37.880 --> 0:08:40.200 And you know, you wish you had been there when 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:44.000 we were just setting up and she's like yelling funk 0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:46.240 while she's setting up her mic. It was delightful, but 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:47.599 you don't get to hear it, but you get to 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:50.160 hear about it. But now you get to hear me 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:53.600 and Judy. Judy and me, you get what I'm saying. 0:08:53.920 --> 0:09:01.240 Don't criticize my grammar. You just you know where a 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:05.600 lot of your anxiety comes from. Spill it. Well, first 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:10.800 of all, I think it's genetic. Um, I'm predisposed. I 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:14.840 think a lot of Jews are predisposed to anxiety because 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:19.280 of being kicked out of every country. So you know, 0:09:19.360 --> 0:09:23.880 this idea of the Jewish the anxious Jewish mother, Uh, 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:29.840 you know, is all based on trauma of you know, 0:09:30.040 --> 0:09:35.280 knock knock, get out heat, you get out of your dead. Um. 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:39.959 So I know that a lot of my I had 0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:44.760 had a very anxious mother and very o c D 0:09:44.960 --> 0:09:49.000 father and an anxious father might so I believe that 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:55.079 my anxiety. First of all, my father lived through the Depression. 0:09:55.120 --> 0:09:59.440 He was born in nineteen sixteen and remembers people we'll 0:09:59.559 --> 0:10:04.400 remember and he's dead. Uh, people like committing suicide. Fuck, 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:10.160 I turned this off, you funk. Sorry. Oh, it wouldn't 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:13.720 be an interview with you without that. I'm keeping on it. Yeah, sorry. Uh. 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:20.839 So he he remembered that anxiety from you know, the 0:10:21.280 --> 0:10:26.000 like literally the depression. Um. He was I guess, you know, 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:30.520 thirteen years old, so very impressionable age. Now, my mother 0:10:32.400 --> 0:10:38.640 grew up on the Upper West Side and she um 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:42.720 had a brother and a sister. She was the eldest, 0:10:42.760 --> 0:10:44.640 and then her brother was two years younger, and then 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:50.320 her sisters seven years younger. And one day in June 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:53.360 I think it was the last day of school. Actually, 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:59.080 she was walking home from she went to UM Julia 0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:02.800 Richmond High School on the East Side, and Betty Persky 0:11:02.920 --> 0:11:08.080 was in her class. Lauren Call's real name. Oh my god, 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:11.680 I never knew that. Yes, and cousin of Sam Schmo 0:11:11.840 --> 0:11:14.960 Perez who was the Prime Minister of Israel. Okay, fascinating. 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:18.320 So you get a lot of Jewish information. This is great. 0:11:19.040 --> 0:11:24.320 So she's walking home and uh, she bumps into one 0:11:24.320 --> 0:11:26.720 of her cousins. A lot of us grew up my 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:29.520 family very New York Upper West Side. And so she 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:32.640 bumps into one of her cousins and they walk home together. 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:36.520 And as she gets at off the bus or the subway, whatever, 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:40.520 she sees her uncle standing on the corner and he 0:11:40.640 --> 0:11:43.080 tells the cousin to go home and brings my mother 0:11:43.160 --> 0:11:50.720 upstairs to tell her that her brother. She walks into 0:11:50.720 --> 0:11:53.800 this house and her younger brother and everyone is just 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:59.840 sitting um. And her younger brother, who went to Bronx 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:05.360 Bian's Brooklyn Tech, was playing ball outside on They lived 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:09.839 on ninety four West eighty nine Street nine and the 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:13.320 doorman came out and said, told these kids, you can't 0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:19.640 play ball here. And uh, my uncle, my mother's brother, 0:12:19.760 --> 0:12:23.040 had his jacket on the hood of a car, and 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:28.480 the doorman or the elevator operator grabbed his jacket and 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:32.719 he and Stewart, my uncle, ran and he and the 0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:36.040 elevator upper ran back into the lobby and was like 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:40.480 playing keepaway with the jacket, and Stewart reached for his 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:47.640 jacket and um, the doorman slash elevator opera, I don't 0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:49.960 know what it was, pushed him and he fell back 0:12:50.120 --> 0:12:52.640 and hit his head on the marble floor and died. Oh, 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:57.959 and I have to tell you I grew up in 0:12:58.040 --> 0:13:02.839 a house where if I was five minutes late, Um, 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:08.480 I remember my father even taking the train to go 0:13:08.600 --> 0:13:12.840 to work and come home. Um, my mother was a wreck. 0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:16.560 Every time I left, I had to leave the name number, 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:19.000 you know, when I was coming home. You know. So 0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:22.760 what happened was this huge tragedy happened? And how old 0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:28.240 was your mom when this happened? It up ended all 0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:30.640 of her plans of going to college. She ended up 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:34.800 just going to you know, junior college. Her younger sister, 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:38.439 who still live, my aunt Joan, you know, told me that, 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:41.439 you know, she felt so guilty because she had just 0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:45.920 had pneumonia and they had just come out with antibiotics, 0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:49.000 and she she lived, but she thought she was the 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:51.040 one that was supposed to die. My mother and my 0:13:51.320 --> 0:13:53.800 and her sister both made a pack. They would have 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:57.959 three children each, so in so there was always one 0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:02.000 left in case something, I mean, And no one ever 0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:05.719 talked about it. So I didn't even know until I 0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:09.160 was eighteen and I was visiting my grandmother and I 0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:15.640 saw the obituary in one of her drawers. Um, so 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:19.720 this trauma and no one talked about things, then that's 0:14:19.760 --> 0:14:22.600 the whole thing there was. There was no therapy, there 0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:27.320 was no They they moved to a smaller apartment with 0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:29.520 one less bedroom, and then they moved out of the 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:34.880 building two first Street. Um, I guess it was too 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:44.440 painful to even be in. So that trauma. Are those 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:52.520 two traumas I think um really made or affected the 0:14:52.560 --> 0:14:55.000 way my parents parented. And you know, and the fact 0:14:55.040 --> 0:14:57.480 that we didn't know that it was like, what's the 0:14:57.560 --> 0:15:00.720 big fucking deal. I'm ten minut It is late. You 0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:04.480 know What's so interesting because now, okay, so there's generational trauma. 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:08.480 Then there's nature nurture, so like we know that anxiety 0:15:08.520 --> 0:15:10.360 comes down in our DNA, whether or not we had 0:15:10.360 --> 0:15:15.960 a generational trauma. Then there's third they're doing everything quote wrong, right, 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:18.240 so they don't they never talk about the death. They 0:15:18.280 --> 0:15:24.160 don't all so now they're passing down maladaptive behaviors. Um 0:15:24.440 --> 0:15:26.360 so even before you find out there was a death, 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:29.840 like you're just being created in this lab of anxiety 0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:34.080 of like you know, everything is dangerous, right, And so 0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:37.960 I remember I grew up like five or six houses 0:15:38.120 --> 0:15:42.280 down from my grammar school. Like I literally walked three 0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:45.360 minutes to get to my grammar school. You could see 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:50.360 the you know, the state the soccer field was like 0:15:51.440 --> 0:15:54.320 in my backyard. But I mean it was anyway the 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:58.120 minute there was any weather, right. Yeah. They used to 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:02.560 make announcements on the public address system. I sweart of 0:16:02.600 --> 0:16:05.080 got the first time, like there's a snowstormer, there's gonna 0:16:05.120 --> 0:16:08.640 be this, or there's Judith Gold. Can you please come 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:11.120 to the office. Your mother's here. And I'm like, oh 0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:14.760 my god, I'm already unpopular, and now there's an announcement 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:18.240 that my mother was the first to pick us up 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:22.080 to you know, bring us home. Well, you know you 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:24.040 are a comedian, and we'll mention it a little bit. 0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:28.080 I'm really I really hate like analyzing comedy and anxiety. 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:30.240 It's just so boring and nobody gets it right. But 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:33.160 one of my favorite routines that you do routines, one 0:16:33.160 --> 0:16:35.840 of my eight is the one about your mother. I mean, 0:16:35.880 --> 0:16:38.480 it's a classic Judith did you fall down? She's yelling 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:40.680 out into your answering machine. We just give us a 0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:44.960 sense of that because it's so funny. Uh. Well, and 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:46.680 I have a I have a bunch of them. But 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:52.840 uh so my eye had. This is the eighties, um, 0:16:54.000 --> 0:16:59.280 and I had gone pre cell phone, and I was 0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:02.360 at my agent's office and I called my mother on 0:17:02.440 --> 0:17:04.719 the phone because it was free. I used to talk 0:17:04.760 --> 0:17:06.840 to my mother every day and and it was free 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:11.000 because we used to have to pay it. And you know, 0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:13.040 she lived in New Jersey and I was in New York. 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:16.480 Uh that was also a sore spot with her that 0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:18.200 she had to move to New Jersey because of my 0:17:18.240 --> 0:17:20.560 father's job, and she hated it. But so I called 0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:23.959 her in New Jersey and we're talking and my elbow 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:26.840 hit the you know the thing on the phone. So 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:30.680 we got disconnected and I didn't call her back. Um, 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:35.320 and I got home and I forgot to tell her 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:37.159 is that my agent's office. And I got home and 0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:39.840 there was this message on my answering machine where she 0:17:40.119 --> 0:17:45.480 is literally screaming, where are you? I'm a wreck. I 0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:48.159 don't understand it. Then she's going to call the neighbor 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:51.120 to find out what happened to me, and she's screaming, 0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:55.400 and then there's a pause and she says, so long. 0:17:56.000 --> 0:17:59.760 I mean, it's so and I and I heard this, 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:03.119 and I thought, and I had so much material about 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:05.840 my anxious mother, and I think that's how I processed it, 0:18:05.960 --> 0:18:09.399 probably now that I'm talking to you, the the anxiety 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:13.359 and um and and her over the top no, because 0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:16.240 it was It wasn't like I had to exaggerate it. 0:18:16.359 --> 0:18:18.600 I was just telling these stories and I thought, I 0:18:18.680 --> 0:18:21.520 gotta play this on. No one is going to believe this. 0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:25.639 And it became like this signature bit of mine, playing 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:27.840 this answering machine message. And my mother and I have 0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:32.080 a bunch of them, I you know, through life, um 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:36.040 of the messages she left me that are so like, 0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:41.120 there's one, okay, there's one where there was this dart man. 0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:43.920 Some people remember this bit. There was a guy in 0:18:44.000 --> 0:18:45.840 the subways, and I think it was in the eighties 0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:49.240 or nineties, and he was throwing darts at women's asses, 0:18:49.880 --> 0:18:52.840 and and there was like this big scare because it 0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:56.800 was the AIDS you know crisis, So everyone was like, 0:18:56.920 --> 0:19:00.280 oh no, what if the darts are infected? Whatever? So 0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:03.840 it was on the front cover the paper, the dart 0:19:03.920 --> 0:19:06.639 Man and I got home that afternoon and there was 0:19:06.680 --> 0:19:09.280 a message from my mother on the answering machine and 0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:20.240 it said, Judith, we're thick clothes. Uh. It's like this 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:23.399 is right now for me. See. I think anxiety is 0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:28.480 funny because it's it's an exact like we all have. 0:19:28.680 --> 0:19:30.680 You know, people say to comedians, so you say what 0:19:30.840 --> 0:19:34.440 I just think? Right, So we all have exaggerated thoughts 0:19:34.480 --> 0:19:37.000 and we worry, and that's part of our evolution. We 0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:39.840 have to be always scanning and keeping ourselves safe. And 0:19:40.080 --> 0:19:41.520 some of the things we have to think and do 0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:44.960 in order to do that we're wrong about. And those 0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:49.200 errors are funny. Hence I think like talking about someone's 0:19:49.200 --> 0:19:53.520 anxious thoughts are very funny. It's just it's like if 0:19:53.600 --> 0:19:57.000 she wasn't doing something that maybe you've even thought, it 0:19:57.080 --> 0:19:59.000 may not even be fine. I don't know. It's it's 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:01.639 it's also that you know, the thing about it is 0:20:01.760 --> 0:20:07.679 so over the top, but it's based in love and vulnerability. Right, 0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:10.760 it wouldn't be funny if she was mean spirited wanted 0:20:10.800 --> 0:20:14.440 to have a terrible life. It's like, here's this woman's 0:20:14.560 --> 0:20:18.520 idea of loving someone to her best ability and keeping 0:20:18.560 --> 0:20:22.320 you safe in the world, and it is just potentially 0:20:22.440 --> 0:20:25.399 could actually do the exact opposite. It could make you 0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:28.920 so crazy that you fall down, and so you're like, 0:20:29.160 --> 0:20:32.040 oh my god, you're out of your mind. But you know, there, 0:20:32.119 --> 0:20:34.359 I still have one on the machine about not buying 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:38.359 Romaine lettuce at a certain uh if you go to 0:20:38.480 --> 0:20:42.240 this gross do not buy, you know. And it was 0:20:43.000 --> 0:20:46.560 her way of, you know, sort of staying connected and 0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:52.520 also yeah, protection and and love. I mean she never 0:20:52.640 --> 0:20:55.040 said I love you. My parents never said I love 0:20:55.119 --> 0:21:00.320 you or hugged me. Um, but I knew they loved me, 0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:03.359 you know what I mean? And I knew And you know, 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:09.200 the thing that got the most um, I guess positive 0:21:09.200 --> 0:21:15.080 reinforcement was a clever quip or sarcastic, like a funny 0:21:15.200 --> 0:21:20.240 line or something like that. You know, they definitely appreciated 0:21:20.320 --> 0:21:24.680 humor and sarcasm. Uh. But yeah, I mean they didn't 0:21:24.720 --> 0:21:29.760 show love in those traditional ways. Uh, but I knew 0:21:30.040 --> 0:21:34.080 I was loved. Now you're a mother, and how have you? 0:21:34.560 --> 0:21:37.719 Have you broken the cycle? Oh? Absolutely, because I've been 0:21:37.720 --> 0:21:41.120 in therapy for so long. But uh, well, first of all, 0:21:41.160 --> 0:21:44.679 I recognize it like I can identify it. I've been 0:21:44.760 --> 0:21:50.200 through cognitive behavioral therapy and I've been through regular therapy. Uh, 0:21:50.680 --> 0:21:54.760 and so I at this point. Now, first of all, 0:21:55.080 --> 0:21:57.679 if you look, you know, like I do the picking 0:21:57.760 --> 0:22:00.440 of the cuticle thing, which is one of the most 0:22:00.520 --> 0:22:04.760 common forms of anxiety, till my fingers bleed and I 0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:08.040 stopped doing that. I mean, I've been doing that since 0:22:08.119 --> 0:22:10.880 as far back as I can remember, and I over 0:22:11.160 --> 0:22:17.280 exercised for many years because of the endorphins. Um. But 0:22:18.680 --> 0:22:24.439 as a parent, I do remember the worst case scenarios, 0:22:24.600 --> 0:22:28.320 Like I remember one time I had one of the 0:22:29.000 --> 0:22:33.720 teachers or helpers at daycare pick up Henry and we 0:22:33.880 --> 0:22:37.240 had the and he took him home and we had 0:22:37.280 --> 0:22:39.959 the time wrong, like I thought they were coming home 0:22:40.000 --> 0:22:43.280 at five or he thought it was seven, and I 0:22:43.760 --> 0:22:51.120 was fucking freaking the I started walking down the street 0:22:51.359 --> 0:22:54.200 like I had these scenarios that he was abducted. I'm like, 0:22:55.400 --> 0:22:58.560 I'm calling the school. You know. It was crazy, you know, 0:22:59.080 --> 0:23:01.720 but it's like I have to say that's not you know, 0:23:01.800 --> 0:23:05.879 when they started driving, I'm like, I always have this 0:23:07.200 --> 0:23:10.800 this worst case scenario thing, and I had to learn 0:23:10.960 --> 0:23:17.000 to know that, like identify that is that real or 0:23:17.160 --> 0:23:20.440 is that anxiety talking? And so that's what's so great 0:23:20.440 --> 0:23:24.719 about cognitive behavioral therapy is that you can label the feeling. 0:23:25.520 --> 0:23:28.080 You know, first you get the feeling of anxiety, and 0:23:28.160 --> 0:23:30.000 then you if you just stop and say what am 0:23:30.000 --> 0:23:34.120 I anxious about? But you know, I think the soothing 0:23:34.320 --> 0:23:39.840 comes from, first of all, I music. I play piano. Um, 0:23:40.520 --> 0:23:46.000 it's the music soothes me in a way nothing else 0:23:46.280 --> 0:23:49.399 I can. As someone with a d D D D 0:23:49.840 --> 0:23:52.359 H D D D D D d D that was 0:23:52.480 --> 0:23:55.560 never diagnosed, it was diagnosed as an adult, the one 0:23:55.720 --> 0:23:59.680 thing I can focus on is music. I can literally, um, 0:24:01.320 --> 0:24:03.760 you know. Sometimes it's it's annoying because if I know, 0:24:04.520 --> 0:24:06.399 I play a lot of classical music, and if I 0:24:06.520 --> 0:24:09.640 know the piece, I can't focus on my writing because 0:24:09.640 --> 0:24:13.560 I'm like, oh, I love this clarinet solo, and you know, 0:24:14.119 --> 0:24:18.879 so I have to sort of, you know, play stuff 0:24:18.920 --> 0:24:25.560 that I'm not that familiar with. But um, some music exercise, UM, 0:24:26.440 --> 0:24:32.720 meditation and therapy and just being aware. And I realized, 0:24:32.760 --> 0:24:34.600 you know, in high school and college, when I was 0:24:34.680 --> 0:24:37.240 just smoking pot all the time, it was just self medicating, 0:24:37.520 --> 0:24:44.320 of course, yeah, you know, um, but it's an awareness, 0:24:44.480 --> 0:24:46.800 you know what I mean, Because you know, some a 0:24:46.920 --> 0:24:48.800 mother who was listening and might not have anxiety might 0:24:48.840 --> 0:24:50.359