WEBVTT - How Businesses Benefit From Paying Workers Fairly 

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.

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<v Speaker 2>This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Tim

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<v Speaker 2>Stenebeck on Bloomberg Radio.

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<v Speaker 3>All Right, we want to get to something that's certainly

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<v Speaker 3>near and dear to us. I think about our conversation

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<v Speaker 3>with Peter atwater over at William and Mary the case

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<v Speaker 3>shape recovery. We talk about records that we've seen in

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<v Speaker 3>the market gains for a lot of Americans, and yet

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<v Speaker 3>that's not the case for everyone. The gap between also,

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<v Speaker 3>and this is kind of an extreme measure. How much

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<v Speaker 3>execs make versus how much those on the frontline of

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<v Speaker 3>the companies make is something we talk about a lot.

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<v Speaker 4>Check this out.

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<v Speaker 3>According to the Economic Policy Institute, CEO compensation rose by

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<v Speaker 3>more than one thousand percent between nineteen seventy eight and

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<v Speaker 3>twenty twenty three, while the typical workers compensation tim rose

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<v Speaker 3>only about twenty four percent.

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<v Speaker 2>Here's another way to look at that gap. Last year,

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<v Speaker 2>CEOs made two hundred and ninety times as much as

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<v Speaker 2>the typical worker. This is coming from the Economic Policy Institute.

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<v Speaker 2>Back in nineteen sixty five, it was only twenty one

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<v Speaker 2>times as much as the typical worker. So it may

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<v Speaker 2>be surprising to you, not to our next guest who

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<v Speaker 2>says we need to quote pay the people. John Driscoll

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<v Speaker 2>is the former CEO at care Centrics. It was bought

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<v Speaker 2>by Walgreens Boots Alliance more than two years ago. He's

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<v Speaker 2>currently senior advisor at Walgreens Boots Alliance. He's had several

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<v Speaker 2>senior executive positions at a variety of healthcare companies. He's

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<v Speaker 2>also a member of Patriotic Millionaires, which calls itself a

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<v Speaker 2>collection of wealthy Americans fighting against the destabilizing concentration of

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<v Speaker 2>wealth and power in the United States.

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<v Speaker 3>I have to tell you have about an hour's worth

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<v Speaker 3>of questions that we want to talk to you about,

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<v Speaker 3>just because there's so much going on in healthcare, as

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<v Speaker 3>you know right now. But let's talk wages and the

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<v Speaker 3>gaps and how we fix this. I mentioned Peter Atwater

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<v Speaker 3>the case shape recovery. Some people are doing really well.

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<v Speaker 3>There's a lot of Americans who are not, and whether

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<v Speaker 3>that plays out in politics and so many different aspects

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<v Speaker 3>of our society. You know, why is it that we

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<v Speaker 3>continue to see people who don't.

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<v Speaker 4>Make a living wage?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, Carol, I think we've lost the string, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm actually no longer working at Walgreens and focusing on healthcare.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm really focusing on making the case that it's good

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<v Speaker 1>for business and it's good for America if we can

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<v Speaker 1>get to a living wage. You know, we lost the

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<v Speaker 1>string a while ago. Between nineteen the nineteen thirties and

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen eighty, median productivity United States went up by about

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<v Speaker 1>ninety seven percent, and the median wages went up by

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<v Speaker 1>about ninety percent. Since nineteen eighty today to today, productivity

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<v Speaker 1>has gone up another ninety percent, but wages median wages

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<v Speaker 1>have only gone up by nine in the gap. That's

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<v Speaker 1>it's inconceivable that we should sort of push working class

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<v Speaker 1>folks farther and farther away from being able to take

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<v Speaker 1>part in this great capitalist adventure that's working for so

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<v Speaker 1>many of us. But you know, there's forty million people

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<v Speaker 1>in America who aren't earning a living wage.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you think the incentives are misaligned? Because if we

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<v Speaker 2>think about, and you've been part of publicly traded companies before,

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<v Speaker 2>what do investors care about? They care about the top

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<v Speaker 2>line and they care about the bottom.

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<v Speaker 4>We never talk about. Okay, so the you know, whoa

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<v Speaker 4>how much Yeah, how much did you know? The people

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<v Speaker 4>on the front lines make you.

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<v Speaker 2>Know what they cared They care about automation and increasing margins.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. But I think though that you're starting to see

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<v Speaker 1>things change you At my own.

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<v Speaker 2>Company, this is twenty eighteen with the Economic Roundtable. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>it's only gotten work.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that the Well, first of all, the trend's

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<v Speaker 1>a bit horrible for the last thirty years, as I

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<v Speaker 1>just pointed out. But at my own company, when we

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<v Speaker 1>froze executive salaries and doubled minimum wage twelve years ago,

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<v Speaker 1>retention went up, engagement went up, but productivity also went

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<v Speaker 1>up by about thirty percent. And you're starting to see

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<v Speaker 1>some of the most successful companies in America. Bank of

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<v Speaker 1>America JP Morgan also raised their wages to a living wage.

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<v Speaker 1>They did it as part of that business Roundtable commitment.

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<v Speaker 1>But what they found is that it it it lowered

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<v Speaker 1>the number of people who were leaving their jobs. Because

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<v Speaker 1>people who are working in minimum wage jobs are often

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<v Speaker 1>working two jobs, they're not as engaged. They found that

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<v Speaker 1>productivity went up with they invested in kind of a

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<v Speaker 1>if you want a fair or social contract, They found

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<v Speaker 1>they had a more successful and profitable business I think

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<v Speaker 1>the most important thing is we get the story out

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<v Speaker 1>that it is a productivity gain and a win for

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<v Speaker 1>the companies, and also that I don't think that capitalism

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<v Speaker 1>can easily be sustained if the bottom third of the

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<v Speaker 1>workforce isn't really part of If the company wins, you.

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<v Speaker 4>Win, So why don't we do it?

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<v Speaker 3>Then you lay out a really good premise and argument,

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<v Speaker 3>why isn't it that more companies don't do that?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, that's what I am focused right now, Carol, on

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<v Speaker 1>selling that story and telling that story, because even for

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<v Speaker 1>the executives that have done it, they're surprised at how

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<v Speaker 1>it increases how long folks stay at jobs, it increases

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<v Speaker 1>their productivity. But that's not a story that many people

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<v Speaker 1>have told, and they certainly have to haven't told it

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<v Speaker 1>with very specific examples. You know, our ability to pay

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<v Speaker 1>claims grew by thirty percent, people stated our company for longer.

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<v Speaker 1>We had fewer people quietly quitting or quitting quitting very quickly,

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<v Speaker 1>And so I think it's selling and telling that story.

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<v Speaker 1>I also think that we're getting the message in a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of different ways. I think the reason why we

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<v Speaker 1>have so much rancor anger and discontentment in working class

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<v Speaker 1>voters of all races and backgrounds is they're not really

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<v Speaker 1>feeling like they're part part of business, of an America

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<v Speaker 1>that works, where business is clearly working and being successful.

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<v Speaker 4>Chaus Johnya.

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<v Speaker 3>One of the things Tim and I have talked about

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<v Speaker 3>a lot, and you write about the restaurant in Association

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<v Speaker 3>and the restaurant industry that I feel like, first of all,

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<v Speaker 3>we feel like there's a tip jar everywhere, and to me,

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<v Speaker 3>it just says we're not paying workers enough.

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<v Speaker 4>And I like, why aren't companies paying workers?

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<v Speaker 3>Why do I have like I would rather pay more

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<v Speaker 3>for an item and just ensure that these workers are

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<v Speaker 3>getting paid. I think about the restaurant industry that you know, right,

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<v Speaker 3>they expect that they're going to be tips, Like.

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<v Speaker 4>How do we kind of rework that? Well?

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<v Speaker 1>I think we have to actually sell this, tell the story,

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<v Speaker 1>sell the story, and then organize. But there are plenty

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<v Speaker 1>of examples. Danny Meyer has been a leader and a

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<v Speaker 1>supporter of the movement that we're working on, which is

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<v Speaker 1>to eliminate kind of the tipped minimum wage, which is

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<v Speaker 1>still at three dollars and twenty five cents. It's unbelievable

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<v Speaker 1>and you start thinking if you're we're not talking about Danielle,

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<v Speaker 1>we're talking about most people are working at Denny's. And

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<v Speaker 1>when you increase the minimum wage and you get to

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<v Speaker 1>a fair wage. You know, California raised the fast food

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<v Speaker 1>minimum wage to twenty dollars an hour. I thought it

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<v Speaker 1>was an odd thing to do, but there was a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of complaints that that would harm the industry. There's

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<v Speaker 1>thousands more fast food jobs.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, why did you think it was an odd thing

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<v Speaker 2>to do?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I think it was odd to just bring it

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<v Speaker 1>up for one category. For me, the most important thing

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<v Speaker 1>is to eliminate tip, minimum wage across the board and

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<v Speaker 1>get to a living wage. Get to I mean again,

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<v Speaker 1>you've got forty million people where they're working full time

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<v Speaker 1>jobs and one job doesn't afford them enough to live

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<v Speaker 1>independently and pay their bills.

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<v Speaker 2>What do you think of the most wealthy people in

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<v Speaker 2>the world right now? Someone like Elon Musk, for example,

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<v Speaker 2>whose fortune has increased by roughly two hundred billion dollars

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<v Speaker 2>just since the election, certainly took a haircut today with

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<v Speaker 2>the sell off in Tesla. What do you make of

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<v Speaker 2>the concentration of wealth at the very top?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I think one of the things that we actually

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<v Speaker 1>got me excited about Patriotic millionaires is that we I

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<v Speaker 1>was deeply offended by the notion of the elimination the

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<v Speaker 1>reduction of taxes on the most wealthy, and the reduction

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<v Speaker 1>of the estate tax, because I think the threat of

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<v Speaker 1>intergenerational oligarchic wealth of massive scale, intentionally or unintentionally disdistorting

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<v Speaker 1>the politics of the moment is a real challenge. And

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<v Speaker 1>that was twenty years ago when I started, when I worked,

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<v Speaker 1>started working with patriotic millionaires. But I don't think the

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<v Speaker 1>biggest problem we have is the a is the massive

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<v Speaker 1>accumulation at the top. Because part of that's related to technology,

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<v Speaker 1>it's the fact that we cut off the bottom third

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<v Speaker 1>of workers in America, and that's not going to be

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<v Speaker 1>good for the economy. If more and more people feel

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<v Speaker 1>like they're not part of the American dream. We're the

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<v Speaker 1>only country that dream is associated with the country. Our

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<v Speaker 1>country is held together by this notion that we're in

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<v Speaker 1>it together. If that, if the bottom third of America does,

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<v Speaker 1>from a wages and wealth perspective, doesn't feel like they're

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<v Speaker 1>part of it, I worry about democracy. I think there

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<v Speaker 1>are plenty of things you could do in tax policy

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<v Speaker 1>to increase to certainly make sure that, as Warren Buffett says,

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<v Speaker 1>he isn't paying a lower percentage of taxes than his assistant.

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<v Speaker 1>I think we should have a fair inheritance sex so

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<v Speaker 1>we don't have these massive concentrations of wealth. But the

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<v Speaker 1>urgent problem of today is to pay people who are

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<v Speaker 1>working hard, leaning in people who are at at the

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<v Speaker 1>bottom third of the wage scale, who are really you know,

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<v Speaker 1>running up a down escalator of costs, particularly a time

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<v Speaker 1>of an.

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<v Speaker 3>So how do we get executives to start thinking about it?

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<v Speaker 3>We have many conversations with CEOs. We often do hear

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<v Speaker 3>about having to pay up for talent, but I'm assuming

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<v Speaker 3>they mean executives and folks kind of higher up in

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<v Speaker 3>their company and not necessarily everyone. How do we get

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<v Speaker 3>them to think about that all across all of the

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<v Speaker 3>workers that they paid for.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, yeah, I don't know how we convince them. But

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<v Speaker 1>the voters are already there. You know. The raising the

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<v Speaker 1>minimum wage to a higher level has won in almost

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's I think it's nineteen out of twenty states.

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<v Speaker 1>It's been put on the ballot in the last election cycle,

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<v Speaker 1>raising the minimum wage won by six points in Missouri.

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<v Speaker 1>It went easily in Alaska. Those are both Trump plus

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<v Speaker 1>ten or twenty states. And the Republican attempt to reduce

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<v Speaker 1>the raising the tip minimum wage actually was defeated at

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<v Speaker 1>the ballot box in Arizona. So the voters are already there.

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<v Speaker 1>I think the only way we're going to get there

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<v Speaker 1>today is politically, because if you have to convince one

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<v Speaker 1>executive at a time will be here forever through voters.

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<v Speaker 1>We have to we have to put it on the ballot,

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<v Speaker 1>we have to get it through Congress. And I think

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<v Speaker 1>what's what's what what What's remarkable to me is the

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<v Speaker 1>Republican voters are already there.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Is it a zero sum game? Like is it uh?

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<v Speaker 2>If to pay workers more, do executives have to earn less?

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<v Speaker 1>Not? Not at all? I mean there is. I mean

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<v Speaker 1>the most recent example of raising fast food minimum wage

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<v Speaker 1>and creating more fast food jobs is the example of

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<v Speaker 1>the last couple of years. But when the restaurant associations

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<v Speaker 1>we talked about in the book actually pulled its members,

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<v Speaker 1>not its lobbyists, in d C, they found that many

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<v Speaker 1>of them actually wanted to increase those wages. There's a

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<v Speaker 1>there's a Nobel Prize winning economist who studied what happened

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<v Speaker 1>when New York raised its wages in hospitality and Pennsylvania didn't.

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<v Speaker 1>And what found is what they found is that the

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<v Speaker 1>New York businesses actually grew, which means those business owners

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<v Speaker 1>made more money even though the wages that they had

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<v Speaker 1>to pay were higher.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, do you think raising the minimum wage in one

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<v Speaker 2>sector like restaurants does raise minimum wage across other sectors too?

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<v Speaker 2>You don't think so. So you don't think like, if

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<v Speaker 2>you're getting paid twenty dollars an hour to work at McDonald's,

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<v Speaker 2>then the warehouse owner has to raise their wages to

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<v Speaker 2>that or else their employees are going to go work

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<v Speaker 2>at McDonald's.

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<v Speaker 4>When is the burger going to go up?

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<v Speaker 1>I'm really going to go up? I Well, the reality

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<v Speaker 1>is the percentage of labor that goes into the Big

0:11:31.600 --> 0:11:34.000
<v Speaker 1>mac is actually pretty trivial. Probably to pay a living

0:11:34.040 --> 0:11:36.840
<v Speaker 1>wage at McDonald's, it would probably go by four to

0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:40.080
<v Speaker 1>five cents per burger. So I think it's not it's

0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:41.200
<v Speaker 1>deminimous play.

0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:42.880
<v Speaker 4>A little bit Devil's advocate here, No.

0:11:42.800 --> 0:11:45.160
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely and where, But where I was going with is

0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:49.480
<v Speaker 1>it's we're moving too slowly. It's time to actually change

0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:52.880
<v Speaker 1>the laws, change the rules, and make sure that everybody

0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:55.440
<v Speaker 1>starts to be everybody at the bottom end of the

0:11:55.559 --> 0:11:57.840
<v Speaker 1>of the pay scale is paid a living wage, and

0:11:57.880 --> 0:12:01.720
<v Speaker 1>that's true for folks. To eliminate the tip minimum wage,

0:12:01.840 --> 0:12:07.440
<v Speaker 1>I would eliminate the discount for disabled workers. We have

0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:11.080
<v Speaker 1>to get to the point where all of these executives,

0:12:11.080 --> 0:12:13.680
<v Speaker 1>all executives who believe in the dignity of work, start

0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:17.920
<v Speaker 1>paying wages that are equivalent to dignified pay.

0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:20.640
<v Speaker 2>We have this terminal function on the Bloomberg terminal where

0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:23.280
<v Speaker 2>we can look up executive compensation. So forgive me for

0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:26.120
<v Speaker 2>being fresh, but you are part of a group that

0:12:26.240 --> 0:12:29.120
<v Speaker 2>does argue that many people should be getting paid more

0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:31.400
<v Speaker 2>and executives sometimes should be getting paid less than twenty

0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:34.840
<v Speaker 2>twenty three, your total compensation was over eleven million dollars.

0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:37.880
<v Speaker 2>Was that too much? Were you paid too much?

0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:41.840
<v Speaker 1>I have been the beneficiary of a capitalist system that

0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:45.079
<v Speaker 1>overpays the top and isn't paying enough at the bottom.

0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:51.400
<v Speaker 1>But I am absolutely certain and I'm that we could

0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:55.560
<v Speaker 1>we could raise get to a living wage level and

0:12:55.600 --> 0:12:58.240
<v Speaker 1>it would have It would make no big dent on

0:12:58.360 --> 0:13:01.240
<v Speaker 1>the comp at the top. But let me also say

0:13:01.280 --> 0:13:03.640
<v Speaker 1>that as a patriotic millionaire, I am on the record

0:13:03.640 --> 0:13:06.640
<v Speaker 1>as saying I think we should increase taxes on people

0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:09.960
<v Speaker 1>like me and increase the state tax for all of us.

0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:12.719
<v Speaker 2>How high should they be, because if you go back

0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:16.280
<v Speaker 2>in history, I mean, the top marginal tax rate used

0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:18.800
<v Speaker 2>to would shock you know, fifty sixty years ago, would

0:13:18.840 --> 0:13:22.839
<v Speaker 2>shock people today. Yeah, I mean it was insanely high.

0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:23.840
<v Speaker 2>It was insanely high.

0:13:24.240 --> 0:13:30.120
<v Speaker 1>Let's start by not approving, not extending the tax cuts

0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:35.760
<v Speaker 1>that Trump put in place when he was in office.

0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:39.080
<v Speaker 1>Let's start by getting to a level that we were

0:13:39.120 --> 0:13:42.960
<v Speaker 1>paying during the Clinton administration, which was one of the

0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:45.760
<v Speaker 1>greatest periods of prosperity, and we were actually paying down

0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:49.520
<v Speaker 1>the debt. We have a one point seven trillion dollar

0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:52.720
<v Speaker 1>deficit this year. It is not going to be news

0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:54.440
<v Speaker 1>to anyone who can do math that all of us

0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:56.600
<v Speaker 1>are going to be paying taxes. And I think it

0:13:56.679 --> 0:13:58.640
<v Speaker 1>should be very clear that people like me should be

0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:00.880
<v Speaker 1>paying more taxes most Yeah, but.

0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:02.200
<v Speaker 4>We've been hearing this for a couple of years.

0:14:02.240 --> 0:14:03.559
<v Speaker 3>I mean I remember being out at milk And a

0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:05.439
<v Speaker 3>few years ago and people saying, yep, it's time for

0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:07.679
<v Speaker 3>us to pay more taxes, really wealthy individuals, and yet

0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:08.120
<v Speaker 3>here we are.

0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:08.800
<v Speaker 4>One thing I want to.

0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:10.600
<v Speaker 3>Ask you, because we're running out of time, is that

0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:12.720
<v Speaker 3>if we believe in a free market, I'm looking at

0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:14.600
<v Speaker 3>your book about some of the myths that are out

0:14:14.600 --> 0:14:16.800
<v Speaker 3>there that if we pay people a living wage. You know,

0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:18.720
<v Speaker 3>some of the myths that you kind of address, And

0:14:18.800 --> 0:14:20.800
<v Speaker 3>one is this isn't an issue for the government because

0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:22.800
<v Speaker 3>the free market will naturally take care of it. We

0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:25.680
<v Speaker 3>saw wages go up during the pandemic and out of

0:14:25.680 --> 0:14:27.760
<v Speaker 3>it because there was a shortage of workers and so

0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:30.800
<v Speaker 3>supplied demand. Free market it was at work. But I

0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:33.680
<v Speaker 3>don't know that that will continue. Will the free market

0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:35.080
<v Speaker 3>kind of help bring this about?

0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:37.360
<v Speaker 1>Well, I think if you look at where wages are

0:14:37.480 --> 0:14:40.360
<v Speaker 1>right now, even during the pandemic, while there was a

0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:44.320
<v Speaker 1>slight bump in wages at the bottom, costs went up

0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:47.720
<v Speaker 1>at twice the rate that wages went up. And so no,

0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:51.320
<v Speaker 1>the free market has failed. And by the way it

0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:56.000
<v Speaker 1>worked when we actually had a minimum wage that was

0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:59.200
<v Speaker 1>closer to reflecting a living wage, which drove the greatest

0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:03.040
<v Speaker 1>period economic success the world has ever seen between the

0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:07.040
<v Speaker 1>forties and the eighties. We unhooked that the bottom third

0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:10.080
<v Speaker 1>of the workforce at that point. And I think we've

0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:13.360
<v Speaker 1>got a pretty angry, unhappy electorate and a lot of

0:15:13.360 --> 0:15:15.640
<v Speaker 1>people living in near poverty and that's just not fair.

0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:18.760
<v Speaker 3>We just had a conversation with was it the CEO

0:15:18.840 --> 0:15:22.400
<v Speaker 3>of Feeding in America, Yeah, and just talked about, you know,

0:15:22.560 --> 0:15:25.760
<v Speaker 3>the people who just don't have enough food on their table.

0:15:25.800 --> 0:15:28.040
<v Speaker 2>Food and security in this country, insecurity.

0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:30.240
<v Speaker 4>And just incredible the percentages and.

0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:32.320
<v Speaker 1>See one out of three or four kids, one out

0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:35.000
<v Speaker 1>of five households. That is unacceptable. And by the way,

0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:38.560
<v Speaker 1>paying a living wage is not going to cost capitalism,

0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:41.520
<v Speaker 1>it's actually going to improve our markets in business thirty seconds?

0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:43.360
<v Speaker 3>Is a living wage the same in every state, in

0:15:43.400 --> 0:15:46.040
<v Speaker 3>every city. It's got to be depending on the locale.

0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:49.080
<v Speaker 1>No, I think that the FEDS can set should set

0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:52.840
<v Speaker 1>a living wage at the national median, and then you

0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:55.040
<v Speaker 1>can vary it up or down based on I mean

0:15:55.160 --> 0:15:58.320
<v Speaker 1>vary it up rather based on what the true cost.

0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:00.320
<v Speaker 1>The costs in LA and New York are very different

0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:04.280
<v Speaker 1>than the cost in Jackson, Mississippi, or you know, or

0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:07.400
<v Speaker 1>or West Texas. You have to vary it. But the

0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:10.160
<v Speaker 1>minimum is so low right now as to be insulting

0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:10.720
<v Speaker 1>to workers.

0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:14.760
<v Speaker 3>I feel like you're preaching to the choir. John drisc

0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:18.640
<v Speaker 3>will come back soon. This was an important conversations. Of course,

0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:21.280
<v Speaker 3>former CEF care centric his new book, Pay the People

0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:23.640
<v Speaker 3>Why fair pay is good for business and great for

0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:24.400
<v Speaker 3>America