Speaker 1: The guys from paying.
Speaker 2: They've kind of showed me how much the equipment matters.
Speaker 2: I just love that I can hit any shot. I
Speaker 2: kind of want.
Speaker 1: We're gonna be able to tell some fun stories about
Speaker 1: what goes on here to help golfers play better golf.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to the Ping Proving Grounds podcast. I'm Shane Bacon.
Speaker 2: That is Marty Jertson, my man in somewhat matching purple?
Speaker 2: Is that fair to say? Derek Dominski joins us. Now,
Speaker 2: how are you doing, buddy?
Speaker 3: I'm great?
Speaker 2: How are you doing great? Excited for this podcast? We
Speaker 2: mean it to have you on for a bit. I
Speaker 2: know you guys have known each other for a long
Speaker 2: long time. I've been following you for a good amount
Speaker 2: of time on social media, but as we know, its
Speaker 2: social media, I've never met you in human form till today.
Speaker 4: It's felt like we've played a few rounds, gone out
Speaker 4: a few times, but it's beneficial today.
Speaker 2: Here we go, Marty, I would like you to start
Speaker 2: the pod by giving us a breakdown of Derek's golf
Speaker 2: game start to finish. I know you've seen it up
Speaker 2: close over the years.
Speaker 1: Off the tee. He's got a fade every single time,
Speaker 1: one hundred percent of the time, reliable, reliable with the
Speaker 1: metal iron game is solid and trending. Shipping needs improvement
Speaker 1: or what shipping is this little weak spot? But his
Speaker 1: ball striking so good he hardly ever needs it on
Speaker 1: the course.
Speaker 2: Is it is it weird to go?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 2: Is it weird to go from like a good player
Speaker 2: that you know, lives in Arizona and competes to becoming
Speaker 2: this like internet guy that people know of because of
Speaker 2: their short game. What has that been like to see
Speaker 2: random people come up to you and talk to you
Speaker 2: about chipping and pitching at an airport or something.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so it hasn't come to that, I guess, thankfully.
Speaker 4: But I've known Marty for a long time. We've become
Speaker 4: good friends. He's roped me into ping, which is what
Speaker 4: I wanted the whole time. I was like, oh no,
Speaker 4: don't don't help me out with paying I can lead
Speaker 4: me to this, no please now.
Speaker 3: But I'm just a golf junkie.
Speaker 4: So that's I remember the first time we met was
Speaker 4: at the Gallery North Course and it was I think
Speaker 4: for the PPC or so, and you were just out
Speaker 4: there grinding. It's super hot. Marty's out there on the
Speaker 4: back of the range. I'm like, you know, I know
Speaker 4: he works with paying. I want to introduce myself. I've
Speaker 4: seen him on TV. He's like, you know, major championship guy,
Speaker 4: and then we start talking like mac O Grady and
Speaker 4: he's just I'm like, this is my guy right here,
Speaker 4: and I think you played well the next day? Yeah
Speaker 4: I did not, but we had great times. And here
Speaker 4: we are now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, at the bird, Marty, this is an unbelievable If
Speaker 2: you're watching this on YouTube, by the way, you've looked
Speaker 2: behind us and you see why they issue teams are
Speaker 2: as good as they are. I mean, I have been
Speaker 2: dreaming of the moment I get to go out there
Speaker 2: and hit some pitch shots here in a little bit.
Speaker 2: This is the real deal. So shout out to ASU
Speaker 2: for letting us use this and Papa go a place.
Speaker 2: I played a lot of golf, Marty, you played a.
Speaker 1: Lot of golf.
Speaker 2: Annoyingly, you take like six months off of golf and
Speaker 2: then play in the Papago Monday game and shoot like
Speaker 2: sixty five.
Speaker 1: I'm gone of yourmo It is fun. I you know,
Speaker 1: I get Mondays off with the day job, so you know,
Speaker 1: New Year's Memorial Day, Labor Day, my three days. I
Speaker 1: played the Monday Skins game here.
Speaker 2: It's it's is it is it the best Skins game
Speaker 2: in it in Phoenix.
Speaker 1: It's still and it's the I think it's the longest standing.
Speaker 1: It's been going on for a long time. So yeah,
Speaker 1: it is fun, it's reliable.
Speaker 2: Derek. Have you spent a lot of time in Phoenix
Speaker 2: playing golf?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 4: I come up here quite a bit, some for instruction,
Speaker 4: but we both play and essentially every Southwest Section event,
Speaker 4: so I'm up here quite a bit. And when I
Speaker 4: can team with this guy, I'm not saying we've gone undefeated,
Speaker 4: but the record books would show that. So it's a
Speaker 4: lot of fun playing with a tour player and I
Speaker 4: just ride them and make a few chips and punts.
Speaker 2: Can you just kind of walk us through your journey
Speaker 2: to this point, because again, I mean, you've got a
Speaker 2: great social media following. It's a lot of fun to
Speaker 2: kind of follow what you do. I learned stuff from
Speaker 2: your social media, which is something I don't think. I
Speaker 2: say a lot about a lot of social media's out there,
Speaker 2: but you know, I mean you've kind of established yourself
Speaker 2: as this thing online and Now, obviously you've got a
Speaker 2: great relationship with Ping, So can you just kind of
Speaker 2: walk us through your journey through golf at this point?
Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure. So I grew up in Minnesota. It's
Speaker 4: where I'm born and raised. Family's there, and I grew
Speaker 4: up with a golfing family. My brother, my dad, my
Speaker 4: mom all played and we grew up in Elkriver, Minnesota.
Speaker 4: The team was extremely competitive, so we'd have like a
Speaker 4: hundred kids try out.
Speaker 2: For the golf in Minnesota.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so if you couldn't shoot like upper seventies, you
Speaker 4: couldn't make varsity.
Speaker 3: Like the JV team was shooting like low eighties.
Speaker 4: So after always being the shortest hid in basketball, even
Speaker 4: though I loved it, after skateboarding and then not really
Speaker 4: being that successful, went into golf and started to shoot
Speaker 4: kind of low nineties, upper eighties. This is about in
Speaker 4: the eighth grade when I got the first golf book
Speaker 4: I ever got in eighth grade, the DELV the dath
Speaker 4: Pels Short Game Bible. So not a quick read. It
Speaker 4: was more of a more of a Bible than maybe
Speaker 4: the Bible, I guess you could say.
Speaker 3: But I got really.
Speaker 4: Into it and what I found is, you know, it
Speaker 4: wasn't the biggest guy besides my looks now, so I
Speaker 4: didn't hit it that far, and I knew I had
Speaker 4: to find a way to score better. So reading that
Speaker 4: book and getting in short game and then really seeing
Speaker 4: for me, we would play these nine hoole matches and
Speaker 4: I would miss every green and sometimes still do, but
Speaker 4: I would I could get up and down nine times
Speaker 4: to shoot like even parts is incredible.
Speaker 3: It was kind of the short game guy a.
Speaker 4: Little bit then, so it's always had a special place
Speaker 4: in my heart. Got into the golf business, golf industry,
Speaker 4: and then as I started teaching again, I teach all areas,
Speaker 4: but short game definitely has a special place, and that's
Speaker 4: kind of why it is so special to me.
Speaker 1: I guess, Derek, what about your You know, some of
Speaker 1: the funnest things is to watch it in person, and
Speaker 1: I've experienced this, others have seen online. What is your
Speaker 1: fa When did your fascination begin with spinning the ball?
Speaker 1: One of the things that you can do that I
Speaker 1: were still trying to figure out, quite frankly, is how
Speaker 1: much you can spin some certain shots, especially very shots
Speaker 1: that fly very short. Yeah, which is a hard thing
Speaker 1: to do. I can outspin you with a full gap wedge,
Speaker 1: but I can't do it with some of these shots
Speaker 1: you hit around the green. When did your fascination with
Speaker 1: spin begin.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's interesting, I think, you know, like back in
Speaker 4: the day. I remember it was all you'd see it
Speaker 4: on TV, and that was kind of back in the
Speaker 4: late nineties when when they were playing like you know.
Speaker 3: The Ballatta balls. Oh, I want to do that on
Speaker 3: a full swing.
Speaker 4: Even so, I got my snake eyes wedge, and you know,
Speaker 4: I looked for that titleist DT spin ball. It said
Speaker 4: DT Spin so you know it had to spot. It's
Speaker 4: in the name, right, So then you know, it's like
Speaker 4: ninety yards out. We find a day it's like blowing
Speaker 4: thirty into me and I'm like, man, I'm just gonna
Speaker 4: I want to spin this so bad.
Speaker 3: So we kind of like explore that way.
Speaker 4: Never really did anything with it, And then as I
Speaker 4: started to kind of teaching it in a short game,
Speaker 4: I just started to kind of hit some shots because
Speaker 4: I really used to not spin the ball. So it's
Speaker 4: not like I've always just been the spin guy. I
Speaker 4: was kind of grew up in that. Dave Pel's somewhat
Speaker 4: Phil Mickelson hingein hold, not that that can't spin it,
Speaker 4: but to kind of use my hands like I currently do.
Speaker 4: Was kind of this process where I started hitting some shots.
Speaker 4: I recorded a video that's on my website maybe eight.
Speaker 3: Years ago or so, and I could kind of make
Speaker 3: it stop and I was like, oh, this is so
Speaker 3: so cool.
Speaker 4: But then after that, really what made it take off
Speaker 4: was when I saw Tigers shot at the valspar. There
Speaker 4: was this video that went viral online and it was
Speaker 4: Tiger at about thirty yards out hits this high shot.
Speaker 4: It's like, okay, cool, like it's going to be hind stop,
Speaker 4: but it like checks and spins right in back and.
Speaker 3: I was like, no way, this is crazy.
Speaker 4: So I reach out to a ton of people and
Speaker 4: a lot of them were like, oh, it's easy, you
Speaker 4: just do this, and we.
Speaker 2: Are you like emailing people calling people.
Speaker 4: Social media at this point, right, So social media I
Speaker 4: probably started in maybe ten years ago or just just
Speaker 4: short of up and that's where the only one person
Speaker 4: took me seriously, Chris Como. So then at that point
Speaker 4: in twenty twenty is when we kind of had this
Speaker 4: back and forth talking about this shot, and then I
Speaker 4: just took it on as a challenge to really just
Speaker 4: see what there was, and that's it'd be waking up
Speaker 4: in the middle of the night trying stuff like all
Speaker 4: crazy golfers do. And at some point it kind of
Speaker 4: worked out and I'm sitting on country.
Speaker 3: With the guys.
Speaker 1: So Derek, this is the shot Tiger hit. He hit
Speaker 1: and he's in the gallery, right, Is that the one
Speaker 1: they know?
Speaker 3: So the first one was.
Speaker 4: At the Vallisbourgna practice around I think when he finished
Speaker 4: second to maybe Paul Casey, yeah, I think. And then
Speaker 4: the one I think you're referring to, he hit another
Speaker 4: one like in the Zozo. I think it might've even
Speaker 4: been before he won, But.
Speaker 3: It's in the Zozo.
Speaker 4: He's putting on this clinic and you could probably YouTube
Speaker 4: this is Zozo clinic.
Speaker 2: I mean, this is super nerdy. I think I watched
Speaker 2: this shot yesterday just.
Speaker 4: In all these like oohs and ahs, like he's fighting
Speaker 4: all these shots. But the first shot he hit, he
Speaker 4: taps this ball out there fifteen yards, brings a ball
Speaker 4: and hits this high shot that spins, spins like all
Speaker 4: like hits the ball and everyone's like whoa, and it
Speaker 4: just sounds incredible.
Speaker 2: So you mentioned Tiger a couple of times. Who are
Speaker 2: your kind of spin idols if you will?
Speaker 3: Yees, So Tiger Woods is number one.
Speaker 4: When I do my shots, I use the bridge Stone ball,
Speaker 4: Tiger's ball, but it has to be the one that
Speaker 4: says Tiger on it where he's on the cover, because
Speaker 4: it just motivates me. I guess, so I would say
Speaker 4: he's number I would say he's number one.
Speaker 2: You throw the ball back to your assistant if they
Speaker 2: give you a non Tiger ball, just give you the
Speaker 2: right ball.
Speaker 1: What are you doing?
Speaker 3: I tape up my fingers.
Speaker 4: No, I don't, but I use that ball and it
Speaker 4: doesn't make a lot of sense, but that ball is, like,
Speaker 4: you know, the spinniest ball. And Marty's helped me as
Speaker 4: well as Eric and all of ping. Right, So I
Speaker 4: think that's kind of why we're such a great partnership
Speaker 4: as well, is we have these questions that you, Eric,
Speaker 4: the whole staff are actually interested in. Right when I
Speaker 4: reached out to all these people, they're like, oh, it's
Speaker 4: just easy.
Speaker 3: He plays this and he does this.
Speaker 4: And I reach out to a lot of great, shortky
Speaker 4: people even and they kind of dismissed it. I'm like, no,
Speaker 4: I think there's something here, yeah, and Coma was like, let's.
Speaker 2: Go, let's have a combo. Yeah, all right, So Tiger's one.
Speaker 2: Who else do you have on your list of the
Speaker 2: maybe not even the people you look up to in
Speaker 2: terms of spin, but like modern day golfers that you're
Speaker 2: impressed by with the way they can kind of manipulate
Speaker 2: spin and loft and things like that.
Speaker 4: Geezus, just a ton of players, right, So I would
Speaker 4: say to some amount like Tiger's protege, like Justin Thomas,
Speaker 4: just and any of the shots, right.
Speaker 3: The one that joking Neeman hit.
Speaker 4: My buddy Matt Everie was on the call and he
Speaker 4: was like, whoa you know, I think you might have
Speaker 4: been on that live with them.
Speaker 3: JT.
Speaker 4: It's funny because I'm a huge fan of like Steve Stricker,
Speaker 4: who kind of does some of the opposite stuff.
Speaker 3: He can still spin it, yeah, but he's like a
Speaker 3: short game idol.
Speaker 4: Just all these you know, as I've taught and started
Speaker 4: to learn maybe why certain players can do things and
Speaker 4: really started to understand more than just a model, but.
Speaker 3: Like, why does Steve stricker stuff work? Why does Sergio Garcia'
Speaker 3: stuff work? Why does these certain shots work. It's just
Speaker 3: kind of helped me, I guess overall.
Speaker 2: So it's it's almost more about studying process than player.
Speaker 2: It's almost more like how are they able to do X,
Speaker 2: Y and Z.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's where I've gotten to where I am.
Speaker 4: It's it's learning and I've had some great resources, but
Speaker 4: also just seeing like why does Luke Donald do this?
Speaker 4: Why does a Brett Rumford do this? Why does Steve
Speaker 4: Stricker move this way? Why does certain people who do
Speaker 4: certain things, you know, have certain body movements? And then
Speaker 4: what are they trying to accomplish? So it's it's it's
Speaker 4: an interesting puzzle that I just I just love so much.
Speaker 1: Derek. One of the things I think I admire about
Speaker 1: you is is you know you talked about Stricker chipping
Speaker 1: with a certain technique. It's different than Tiger and JT
Speaker 1: and some of the other players out there. How have
Speaker 1: you distilled what the tour players do, They're different techniques.
Speaker 1: I think I've seen you use the term long arc,
Speaker 1: short arc right, and how do you take those in
Speaker 1: teach your every day your club golfers. You know, your
Speaker 1: your mid to high handicaps.
Speaker 4: I think where that has really helped me is just
Speaker 4: understanding when someone has a certain pattern what their struggles
Speaker 4: would tend to be. I e. When people are told
Speaker 4: to be wide and shallow in general, they're going to
Speaker 4: be underplane. The whole club, the whole system is moving
Speaker 4: so far off, and I'll be like, well are you
Speaker 4: are you hitting it fat and thin a bunch like oh,
Speaker 4: how do you know? So just kind of knowing what
Speaker 4: their tendencies might might be, and then we can help
Speaker 4: improve them, just just with.
Speaker 3: A shot or a skill.
Speaker 4: Right, So if they're super wide, low and inside, we
Speaker 4: can somewhat quantify it. And it's not quite the simple,
Speaker 4: but it can be. It's like, hey, I need you
Speaker 4: to use some amount of wrists and hit me like
Speaker 4: a risty slice. That can tend to neutralize them. Contact improves,
Speaker 4: they can see a quick improvement more than hey, let's
Speaker 4: shorten that arc.
Speaker 3: Let's let's increase this. You can make it real simple
Speaker 3: that way.
Speaker 1: Okay, cool?
Speaker 2: What are some misconceptions about Because I was chatting with
Speaker 2: you earlier out here kind of like messing around with
Speaker 2: some wedges and stuff, and like I think every day
Speaker 2: people get taught that lower on the face spins more.
Speaker 2: You've got to hit it high, to spin the golf ball,
Speaker 2: Like what are you figuring out running into solving the
Speaker 2: problems of about spin that maybe you thought one way,
Speaker 2: Yeah that now you think the total opposite.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so that would all those questions go to Eric
Speaker 4: Hendrickson and everyone, because even me, I'm learning new stuff
Speaker 4: all the time, right, and I'm sure you know I've
Speaker 4: got bad information out there. Right, It's like, oh, okay,
Speaker 4: well this is kind of calm and knowledge. We think
Speaker 4: that maybe this produces this. It's like, okay, I've kind
Speaker 4: of seen that. And then also there'll be things that
Speaker 4: I can take to Eric and Marty or it's like, hey,
Speaker 4: I can hit on this part of the club. This
Speaker 4: tends to do this and they can explain why. It's
Speaker 4: like at this point, again they're so smart. It's like,
Speaker 4: here's what I'm seeing. You tell me why, Like I
Speaker 4: don't really know, but I can do this. I don't
Speaker 4: know really how, but you guys.
Speaker 1: Know, I yeah, I think And what why Derek and
Speaker 1: Chris the rest of our ambassadors do and our players
Speaker 1: they you know, we had Joe Mayo on a while back.
Speaker 1: Is that push? They're pushing us a lot, and when
Speaker 1: we don't know the answers. It means they're observing something
Speaker 1: in real life. We need to try to figure out
Speaker 1: and then try to feed that big back into just
Speaker 1: that understanding of golf physics. And Derek brought up a
Speaker 1: good point that, hey, maybe I have bad information out there,
Speaker 1: you know, in the scientific world. It's kind of you
Speaker 1: could say that, you know, facts have a half life
Speaker 1: because you can level up your NOL.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I mean, and and maybe golf is the biggest
Speaker 2: sport about that, right, Yeah, because you think about the
Speaker 2: stuff you and I've talked about on this podcast that
Speaker 2: was true ten years ago.
Speaker 1: That is the good opposite these distance versus accuracy and
Speaker 1: hitlo on the face and things of that nature. So
Speaker 1: this has been great to have Derek on on board
Speaker 1: to push us come in and help do some of
Speaker 1: those fun projects, try to crack the code on those
Speaker 1: spin shots.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and also the fact that you guys have the
Speaker 3: spinniest wedge makes me look pretty good.
Speaker 1: Can we call that science friction?
Speaker 3: Science friction? Lots of compliance? If you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: How did the relationship start with Ping? Like, how did
Speaker 2: that conversation begin?
Speaker 3: Always?
Speaker 4: You know, Marty's always helped me out, like doing some
Speaker 4: driver fittings, like he would always take care of me
Speaker 4: super nice. Every time I had an experience of it paying,
Speaker 4: it was like incredible they got you know, it's like
Speaker 4: I'm hitting driver bad and they're like, we'll try this.
Speaker 4: I'm like, wow, I didn't. I didn't know I could
Speaker 4: hit it a little better and further. So Marty was
Speaker 4: just helping me send it. And then at that point
Speaker 4: working with Chris qualifying for that Shriner's event, kind of
Speaker 4: this perfect storm and then being up the road and
Speaker 4: I know what paying stands for and everything, so it
Speaker 4: is I'm just kind of like, oh no, don't don't
Speaker 4: help me out, or you know, like sure, I guess
Speaker 4: I'll go hang out at bing. So it really was
Speaker 4: this hope, hope that it would work God, and yeah,
Speaker 4: it's it's it's great.
Speaker 1: Derek was a good case study shame. We've talked about
Speaker 1: that on drivers. There's a relationship between distance and accuracy.
Speaker 1: Derek drives it very straight straight, but he's self admitted
Speaker 1: not the longest player out there. So what we did
Speaker 1: with him is we put him in our Ulti cb
Speaker 1: X flex Cheft Super Counterbalance right up to the forty
Speaker 1: six inch limit. So that's a case where we actually
Speaker 1: went longer because he drives it so straight and put
Speaker 1: a premium on getting more well.
Speaker 4: Remember the first time though it was forty eight, Oh,
Speaker 4: it was over when it was When it was to
Speaker 4: forty I'm like, Marty, give it to give it as
Speaker 4: long as I can.
Speaker 3: I don't, I don't care.
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter.
Speaker 3: And then what I do. I put it right in
Speaker 3: the back. You're like, you don't have to play this.
Speaker 3: It was like at week up, I'm like, Marty's going
Speaker 3: straight in.
Speaker 4: Yeah, It's like it's like there's no there's no barrier,
Speaker 4: it's super easy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like, of course this is going straight in.
Speaker 2: It's great, Derek to you know, your your interest on
Speaker 2: social media has led you to I'm assuming some doors
Speaker 2: you probably didn't know you'd be knocking on or walking through.
Speaker 2: Tour players have come to you for advice, collegiate players,
Speaker 2: LPGA players. Who was the first tour player to reach
Speaker 2: out and you worked with? And how has that been
Speaker 2: personally for you to have people you see on TV
Speaker 2: and professional golfers want to pick your brain about golf.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I've worked with some like Tucson people in
Speaker 4: the past, Runnie Black's a good friend Don Pooley, but
Speaker 4: then like getting to know it and become friends with
Speaker 4: Max Homma, you know, a mutual friend. Seeing him when
Speaker 4: COVID really started is when we kind of started working,
Speaker 4: and then just watching him grow and you know, obviously
Speaker 4: with his coach, Mark Blackburn, he's got him so dialed
Speaker 4: in and just kind of being a sounding board for
Speaker 4: a while and working with him there and then not
Speaker 4: to have a little success like for him and we've
Speaker 4: both seen it. He just the hardest worker I've ever seen.
Speaker 4: He will do information right away. He's just an incredible talent.
Speaker 4: And then when you put that all together and now
Speaker 4: he's won like six more times again like with no
Speaker 4: no real help for me, such such a talent. But
Speaker 4: it was really cool to see and hang out with
Speaker 4: him a bunch of TPC Scottsdale and and and then
Speaker 4: you know who doesn't like Max Hommer, Right, if you
Speaker 4: don't like Max Homma, you're the problem. Let's be clear,
Speaker 4: like it ain't Max so doing that. And then now
Speaker 4: it's yeah, just I consult for a lot of players,
Speaker 4: a lot come to Tucson, you meet some really cool people,
Speaker 4: and uh, it's a wild ride and it's doing what
Speaker 4: I love. I love teaching all of golf, but something
Speaker 4: special about helping short game to me, that just you know,
Speaker 4: when you do that thing that makes you feel alive
Speaker 4: or it's like, I don't even know what I'm getting paid,
Speaker 4: I don't care what I'm getting paid, Like this is.
Speaker 3: What I want to do.
Speaker 4: It's like teaching short game to really anyone, but like
Speaker 4: the high level players is special.
Speaker 2: I'm actually just in both of your thoughts on this.
Speaker 2: I'll start with you, Derek. You know you we talk
Speaker 2: so much about teaching golf. Is it a different approach
Speaker 2: to teaching a great player versus teaching an average player
Speaker 2: because they're bringing so many different skill sets to the table.
Speaker 2: But in theory, you're probably trying to get them to
Speaker 2: similar spots, right, I mean in terms of contactor where
Speaker 2: they hit the ball, the way they're they're moving it
Speaker 2: through through impact. I mean, I'm assuming the end goal
Speaker 2: might be the same, but the way you get there
Speaker 2: might be different.
Speaker 3: The tough thing is a tour player, you can give
Speaker 3: them terrible info and they can probably make it work.
Speaker 2: Okay, they're so skilled.
Speaker 4: So talented that I could tell them to use the
Speaker 4: opposite of the club. They're like, okay, yeah, I get
Speaker 4: you know, depending on what their level is. But when
Speaker 4: you get a player it comes in for a lesson.
Speaker 4: They miss your hand, you know, trying to shake it.
Speaker 4: It's like, okay, we're gonna try to get this club
Speaker 4: on this ball. Let's be clear, I ain't gonna probably
Speaker 4: go that well. So so knowing that, so then you
Speaker 4: really have to dial in things that they can do,
Speaker 4: what's reasonable, make it very clear.
Speaker 3: So that they can have success.
Speaker 4: So that's really kind of a sneaky fun challenge. It's like,
Speaker 4: you know, if I can get this person short game
Speaker 4: well not you know, with no disrespect to them, because
Speaker 4: it's a challenging game, but it's like, man, that's that's
Speaker 4: an accomplishment compared to these super high level players that
Speaker 4: really can do anything, which is why they're where they're at.
Speaker 1: The way i'd answer that one change from a from
Speaker 1: a fitting standpoint would be that the high handicapped golfer,
Speaker 1: we don't see them. They don't need to have as
Speaker 1: much variation in their short game. They can have one
Speaker 1: staple shot they rely on. Let's say ninety ninety five
Speaker 1: percent of the time, and quite often they are not
Speaker 1: comfortable opening the face right, So I want to flip
Speaker 1: that your way here in a second, Derek. But then
Speaker 1: then the more skilled golfer they need, they're going to
Speaker 1: have more variety. They're gonna move the handle around, They're
Speaker 1: gonna lean it back, lean it forward, raise the handle,
Speaker 1: lower their hands for different shots. So we will put
Speaker 1: them through a more advanced fitting protocol that stresses all
Speaker 1: those areas and make sure it works for the shots
Speaker 1: they need to hit on the course, Derek. For you,
Speaker 1: what do you see with the high handicap player? Do
Speaker 1: they do they fear opening the face? Can you give
Speaker 1: them to open the face? Is that something you teach them.
Speaker 1: I'm kind of curious to get your thoughts on it.
Speaker 1: It's very case by case basis.
Speaker 4: I get a lot something that I somewhat have a specialty,
Speaker 4: and I guess is I'm a lot of people's last
Speaker 4: resort when they have the yips.
Speaker 3: So I've had people flying from all over They're like,
Speaker 3: it's you or nothing. And You'll see some of these
Speaker 3: people and it's.
Speaker 2: Like that's either a major compliment or a huge dig.
Speaker 4: It's like, hey, you're my last resort, and you'll see
Speaker 4: them hit some shots and I'm like, are you really playing?
Speaker 3: Are you doing this in front of your buddy? Like
Speaker 3: this is wow.
Speaker 4: So when that's the case, it's just getting any way
Speaker 4: that they can predict contact, getting comfortable with any any
Speaker 4: style before we start moving up the chains, like okay,
Speaker 4: we got to make pretty good contact, then we got
Speaker 4: to control it, and it's building this this kind of
Speaker 4: learning foundation of okay, well then we can start to
Speaker 4: open the face. Same thing in bunkers. People have one
Speaker 4: speed when they come to me, they're struggling. It's called
Speaker 4: panic speed. Get me out of here. They can give
Speaker 4: it full gas and this ball's going anywhere. It's so
Speaker 4: it's very player to player in that regard.
Speaker 2: I feel like teaching golf. I mean, you know, if
Speaker 2: you were gonna compare it to like a road trip,
Speaker 2: there are you know, high handicapped players. Players you're talking
Speaker 2: about last ers or type of players that the road
Speaker 2: trip like to get them to a next level might
Speaker 2: be another city. It might be driving from two soon
Speaker 2: the Phoenix or twoson del Passo. You're talking to a
Speaker 2: tour player, it might literally just be trying to get
Speaker 2: them to the next exit, you know where it's like,
Speaker 2: it's not there's not that much you need to improve on.
Speaker 2: But if I can get you a mile better on
Speaker 2: this road trip, then it can be you know, it
Speaker 2: can be an enormous leap for you because it's just
Speaker 2: so incremental in terms of getting better when you're that
Speaker 2: that high of a level of golfer.
Speaker 4: I think that's what's helped me out even in my coaching.
Speaker 4: So I get a lot of players that see me
Speaker 4: for spin right, they want to hit that spin shot.
Speaker 3: So we don't necessarily have to change form, change technique,
Speaker 3: change how they do anything.
Speaker 4: It's like, hey, we can add these we can add
Speaker 4: these skills to your toolbox and then head down the road.
Speaker 1: Derek, Uh, what shot or let's say you're on the
Speaker 1: golf course. What you you walk up to your ball?
Speaker 1: What scenario and conditions get you very excited? Like you're
Speaker 1: gonna be able to melt this golf ball. You're gonna
Speaker 1: be able to show off with the shot on the course.
Speaker 4: So I really like so if I had to set
Speaker 4: the stage right so it's a perfect lieball sitting up right,
Speaker 4: TPC Scott still is a perfect example one. So it's like, man,
Speaker 4: how can I I'm just gonna spin this thing, and
Speaker 4: then if I can go, I kind of like, you
Speaker 4: know you can spin it.
Speaker 3: You see guys spin it from like fifty sixty.
Speaker 4: That's fine, but the one that opens eyes is when
Speaker 4: you're close and you can spin it and people like
Speaker 4: I haven't seen that.
Speaker 3: So if I get it right.
Speaker 4: About my sweet spots, probably if it calls for it
Speaker 4: right because in tournaments, I'm gonna try to be smart.
Speaker 4: But if if it calls for it, you know, something
Speaker 4: where it's a tight pin, maybe over something great lie,
Speaker 4: maybe in that ten to twenty yard range where I
Speaker 4: can just cut one up there.
Speaker 2: So you're telling me you get excited about the shots
Speaker 2: that we don't want to hit. That's what you're saying
Speaker 2: exactly the ones I'm like, I don't want anything to
Speaker 2: do with this. All. I'm gonna pitch this twenty feet
Speaker 2: by and maybe I'll make the putt.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's it, and we both know you guys can
Speaker 4: both play, but it I think it does help somewhat
Speaker 4: practicing those kind of unique shots because it's like, I
Speaker 4: can go have fun with this, and I think something
Speaker 4: that's helped me in events is I don't care how
Speaker 4: I look or how I play, Like I can live
Speaker 4: with any result. If I had a terrible shot, No
Speaker 4: one's better at living with a bad result than me.
Speaker 4: So I think that gives me a huge advantage because
Speaker 4: I don't care how it turns out. So that helps
Speaker 4: me free it up, put myself in that practice mode,
Speaker 4: kind of lick my lips and be like watch this. Oh,
Speaker 4: and then I mean, it's just fun.
Speaker 3: It's just however it goes.
Speaker 1: It's great.
Speaker 2: When did social media become a part of all this,
Speaker 2: because I mean, as I've mentioned, I mean the social
Speaker 2: media side has grown. What's your relationship like right now
Speaker 2: with the Instagram? Do you love it?
Speaker 4: Is it?
Speaker 2: Is it frustrating?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 4: So the great thing for me is it's all fun.
Speaker 4: It's I don't it's like an additional yeah, exactly. So
Speaker 4: the greatest thing that has helped me do is meet
Speaker 4: great people, great coaches, great players. I don't need to
Speaker 4: make money off of it. If a video does well
Speaker 4: or bad, it doesn't really matter to me. Again, I
Speaker 4: think I started kind of eight or nine years ago,
Speaker 4: and I was talking last night to Georgia Gankias his
Speaker 4: good friend, and we were both at like a couple
Speaker 4: like a thousand followers of two thousand followers, and I'm
Speaker 4: seeing him and you knowble to watch him grow, and
Speaker 4: so we were kind of early adopters, I guess in
Speaker 4: the in the Instagram era, which I probably should have
Speaker 4: done YouTube honestly, if I talk to my younger self
Speaker 4: and be playing golf for fun for a lot of money,
Speaker 4: and then it kind of Instagram changed, TikTok came out,
Speaker 4: some of these other platforms. So like the algorithm or
Speaker 4: whatever you want to call it has maybe adjusted somewhat,
Speaker 4: but it doesn't matter. Like I'm still just putting out things.
Speaker 1: I like.
Speaker 4: Oftentimes I'll get asked to speak about goofy you not
Speaker 4: goofy things, but like, you know, how do you build
Speaker 4: how did you build your brand or how did you
Speaker 4: It's like, Okay, I got on fiver and I got
Speaker 4: my logo, you know, for fifteen bucks. You know, I
Speaker 4: sent it to fifteen people, but yeah, exactly, so I
Speaker 4: was like, we'll get fifteen options, you know, we'll do
Speaker 4: it from there.
Speaker 3: And then.
Speaker 4: Again, just really being able to do it for fun,
Speaker 4: I think it's really allowed me to have no pressure, right,
Speaker 4: So I'd be doing the same thing if I had
Speaker 4: zero followers, same thing if I had whatever followers. But
Speaker 4: it's just because I love this game so much, and
Speaker 4: it's just I love teaching it, I love playing it.
Speaker 4: I think about it too much, and it's just like
Speaker 4: an addiction.
Speaker 2: Shait.
Speaker 1: We did the Halloween edition scary Shots yep, and it
Speaker 1: was like forty to seventy yard bunker shot. This guy
Speaker 1: is probably the best I've ever seen at it.
Speaker 2: What's I would actually agree?
Speaker 1: I'm pretty good. Yeah, I'm real good.
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna.
Speaker 2: Though pretty Walk us through your process.
Speaker 3: It's super easy. It's the easiest process.
Speaker 2: Now you're going Phil Mickelson on us.
Speaker 4: So here's but here's what I so when I have
Speaker 4: to twur players come down or at these college kids.
Speaker 3: And I'd ask you both of this.
Speaker 4: So your highest lefted wedge out of out of normal
Speaker 4: sand when you make a full swing, how far does it.
Speaker 2: Fly out of a normal bunker shot?
Speaker 3: How far? Give me a number?
Speaker 2: Eight yards full swing? Oh, like I'm hitting.
Speaker 3: A full like it's a full bunker blast. Oh thirty
Speaker 3: yards exactly.
Speaker 2: I have no idea.
Speaker 1: That's problem twenty twenty ish.
Speaker 4: Okay, So in a tournament, mine flies thirty yards exactly.
Speaker 2: Full bunker shot.
Speaker 3: Yeah, normal shot. So I know that I have all
Speaker 3: my players calibrate that.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 3: So that's a knowledge thing.
Speaker 4: So when I get to a green side bunker and
Speaker 4: I pull out my laser and everyone's like, what's this
Speaker 4: goofball doing, It's like.
Speaker 3: I'm again, I don't care how I look. Right, We've
Speaker 3: we've been clear about that.
Speaker 4: I don't care at all. I'll laser the pin and
Speaker 4: it's like, oh thirty, it's like the thirty one pin.
Speaker 4: Oh this is full.
Speaker 1: Does your laser measure that short?
Speaker 2: Well?
Speaker 3: So see most people don't even know that, yes it does.
Speaker 4: So and then if I got forty yards, it's my
Speaker 4: next wedge, it's my fifty five. At fifty yards, it's
Speaker 4: my fifty degree. It's sixty yards, it's pitching lunch.
Speaker 3: I had a shot this past summer it was like
Speaker 3: seventy five to the pin. I just looked at me.
Speaker 4: I've got my little matrix and I say, oh, this
Speaker 4: is It was kind of sitting down, so I didn't
Speaker 4: want to hit like a shot. I was like, I
Speaker 4: just full nine iron blast. It was seventy seventy five yards.
Speaker 4: I hit it to a fifteen feet because I just
Speaker 4: I have a system that I just feel like, again,
Speaker 4: I've never seen it hurt anyone to know those numbers,
Speaker 4: because then it can give you confidence in events when
Speaker 4: you need it. And I'm not trying to get closer
Speaker 4: to the balls podcast. I'm not trying to do anything different.
Speaker 4: It's like I love a forty five yard bunker shop
Speaker 4: because it's just.
Speaker 3: A it's a full, it's a full. Fifty five.
Speaker 1: We played together at Phoenix Country Club the driveable number six.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you guys were all up there.
Speaker 1: I was back in the longer fact kind of kind
Speaker 1: of number five. Yeah, it kind of wiped me. It
Speaker 1: kind of didn't hit one.
Speaker 3: I didn't make it over at any point.
Speaker 1: Back I see him. It was like rain Man. He
Speaker 1: got out this thing and doing all this stuff, and
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, I walk up by the
Speaker 1: green and it hits up to like five feet. I
Speaker 1: was like, okay, yeah, and then he hold about it
Speaker 1: thirty five.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Well, hey, perfect for Bertie. We were coming back, Marty, Bertie.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we came back. We came back.
Speaker 2: Beat the Amateurs, take take Down and take down the
Speaker 2: I've never again. I mean, you think about how much
Speaker 2: you focus on the game, and to think about never
Speaker 2: knowing how far I hit a full bunker shot is
Speaker 2: I've never I'm thirty nine. I never thought about it one.
Speaker 3: So I've got. I've kind of developed these protocols things
Speaker 3: I like every tour player to have.
Speaker 1: I get.
Speaker 4: I have a lot of high level, kind of D
Speaker 4: one players that I help out to. I have these
Speaker 4: certain metrics that I like you to know just because again,
Speaker 4: like when I had that seventy five yard bunkers shot
Speaker 4: in Minnesota ball sitting down, I had a solution to
Speaker 4: the question the course asked. I didn't have to practice
Speaker 4: it ever. I just like, Okay, this is the plan,
Speaker 4: and then let's do.
Speaker 2: What is the checklist? You asked the players that come
Speaker 2: your way to have answered yeah.
Speaker 4: So when it comes down to it, it's like having certain
Speaker 4: shots and skills, right. We can simplify it and there's
Speaker 4: much more to this, but it's like having a good
Speaker 4: ball first skill in short gam having a good ground
Speaker 4: for a short skill in short game out of the bunkers,
Speaker 4: knowing certain numbers from thirty to one hundred, knowing certain
Speaker 4: numbers again, even if you don't use them. So I
Speaker 4: like my players to be more planned than the guy
Speaker 4: or girl that they're going to play, and then it's
Speaker 4: just like a cheat sheet when you're on the golf course.
Speaker 1: Do you do any of that with putting as well?
Speaker 1: Any any of that framework go to putting?
Speaker 4: So I haven't yet, but I feel like there is
Speaker 4: a need because if I teach someone and this is
Speaker 4: what I found in teaching, it's my job to meet
Speaker 4: them where they're at. If they don't want to practice,
Speaker 4: I've got to figure out a solution for them. I
Speaker 4: don't even to practice if they don't want to, that's
Speaker 4: on me. So at that point, if someone comes to
Speaker 4: me they say, I plan my annual work event, how do.
Speaker 3: I hit a fifty foot putt? I should have a
Speaker 3: solution to that.
Speaker 4: So what we can do is we can start to
Speaker 4: use their feet, spread them out and say, hey, if
Speaker 4: we have a certain metronome number and we do a
Speaker 4: certain stroke, I.
Speaker 3: Think this is where you're gonna get close.
Speaker 4: Or we can have them kind of measure three three
Speaker 4: stands with because I've got to give them a solution. Again,
Speaker 4: like I don't need them to practice if they don't
Speaker 4: want to, but I better give them a good solution explaining, Hey,
Speaker 4: if you're not going to practice, you know, these maybe
Speaker 4: goals you have are not attainable. But if you don't
Speaker 4: want to practice, I better be able to give you
Speaker 4: somewhat of an answer whether I want to or not.
Speaker 1: You did that with my kids in putting. I remember,
Speaker 1: I just they just took their normal stance. With my kids.
Speaker 1: Are their putters going all over? So just to the
Speaker 1: foot to the foot boom exactly? They're rolling the rocket.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're rolling the pier.
Speaker 2: I mean, what what a what a way to think
Speaker 2: about it where it's really teaching per play, you know.
Speaker 2: I mean we've talked a lot about that with different
Speaker 2: instructors where it feels like the old school way was
Speaker 2: here's my system, I'll match you to my system. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and now it's a lot about I'm going to try
Speaker 2: to figure out the best case scenario for you. And
Speaker 2: I mean I've thought about it in terms of swing
Speaker 2: and body type, and Mark Blackburn talks a lot about this.
Speaker 2: I mean, you talk about matching who you are, you know,
Speaker 2: to what you're capable of doing, what your body's cable doing.
Speaker 2: But even even the commitment to time and ability to
Speaker 2: practice and what your goals are at the end of
Speaker 2: the day. I mean, it's so interesting to think about
Speaker 2: it from that perspective. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Again, I think that's where I've become a better instructor
Speaker 4: is because you know, I'd be like, well, you got
Speaker 4: to find not that I would ever say it, but like, well,
Speaker 4: can't you find time to practice? And again, you guys
Speaker 4: have you know, kids, family and all that. And then
Speaker 4: also what you've realized after teaching for so long is
Speaker 4: people who practice don't necessarily get any better, right, They
Speaker 4: get vitamin D from the sun, they get sweaty, they
Speaker 4: get frustrated, and that the time is spent doesn't equate
Speaker 4: to better score.
Speaker 3: So at that point, I don't want you to waste
Speaker 3: your time. I'd rather you go play.
Speaker 4: So if I teach a lot of working people and
Speaker 4: I'm like, I want to give you easy solutions, and
Speaker 4: I need you to go.
Speaker 3: Play and have fun.
Speaker 4: I don't want you to go beat balls at the
Speaker 4: range again, where you're maybe doing something that we're not
Speaker 4: working on. You're just you're maybe regressing or doing something poorly.
Speaker 4: I want to give you good solutions.
Speaker 3: You go play. You just have better.
Speaker 1: Answers, Derek, what do you like more playing or teaching?
Speaker 3: So what helps my teaching is I love playing the
Speaker 3: game way more and I love to teach.
Speaker 1: So you like them both when we love them both.
Speaker 4: But playing so making my game in season, my game
Speaker 4: is a priority. So someone's like, can you squeeze me?
Speaker 4: And I'm like, no, I can't. I got a practice
Speaker 4: or I got to play. So by doing that, though,
Speaker 4: it shows your students, you know, the commitment when needed.
Speaker 4: Also when you go and do playing lessons and hit shots,
Speaker 4: you know when they I've never seen it be bad
Speaker 4: for a coach to be able to hit great shots.
Speaker 4: Not that you don't they have to write you don't
Speaker 4: have to be a great player to coach well, but
Speaker 4: I've never seen a student not you know, when you're
Speaker 4: hitting some great shots and you know you're kind of
Speaker 4: lighting up the green and it's looking pretty good for you.
Speaker 4: I've never seen a student be like, mah, bummer.
Speaker 3: You know this guy doesn't know what he's talking about.
Speaker 3: It just can can add value added.
Speaker 2: It's only to be helpful. Can we talk about the
Speaker 2: new edges, because I mean these the s one to
Speaker 2: fifty nine's are so a beautiful I think that's what's
Speaker 2: kind of blown me way the most. But it feels like,
Speaker 2: and I don't think you're going out on a limb
Speaker 2: to say this, they're the best wedges Ping has ever made.
Speaker 2: And for somebody that's obsessed with spinning the golf ball
Speaker 2: and in and around the greens, I'm sure when you
Speaker 2: saw those for the first time, it was probably like
Speaker 2: a bit of like a Christmas Birthday kind of combo.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and again, Ping is so great in every area
Speaker 4: wedges haven't done as well as.
Speaker 3: Maybe you know peing Wood one.
Speaker 4: I'm sure right, it's it's you know, well known to
Speaker 4: some extent there. But now with the app, with the
Speaker 4: simplicity of the wedge lineup, with the look, with the op,
Speaker 4: with the bounce options, and then having the again I'm
Speaker 4: in the friction business, so it's like the spinniest club.
Speaker 4: I see you back there, fiction man, it's the spinniest
Speaker 4: club in a high friction environment, and then it's just
Speaker 4: so much better in a low friction environment.
Speaker 3: So for what I do, it's great.
Speaker 4: But again, playing all the Ping stuff, right, Ping woods,
Speaker 4: how well do they do? I mean you guys are
Speaker 4: posting non staff guys playing pingas.
Speaker 2: Day think it's I think it's a humbling thing. Would say,
Speaker 2: very well.
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly right. So it's going very well. And then
Speaker 4: I feel like now like again Ping has had but
Speaker 4: like their their wedge lineup and product is so good.
Speaker 4: And again, before I played in the Shriners, I had,
Speaker 4: you know, another brand, and it was like, okay, you
Speaker 4: probably don't want to switch that before you go in.
Speaker 4: You gave me the wedges out of the bunkers. They
Speaker 4: are incredible, and then off the ground, I'm like, these
Speaker 4: are going straight in and it was just like from
Speaker 4: day one they did everything I wanted end more. And
Speaker 4: then being in the friction business, they make me look
Speaker 4: better than I probably am.
Speaker 1: What is your what is your typical kind of gapping?
Speaker 1: How do you do your gapping on your your own wedges? There?
Speaker 3: So I've always liked sixty fifty six, fifty two.
Speaker 4: Forty, but now modernly it's sixty fifty five fifty.
Speaker 3: And then forty five.
Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, so, always been a four wedge guy, and
Speaker 4: just Dave Pelis told.
Speaker 2: Me, so, Marty, what's your gapping right now?
Speaker 1: Sixty one? Then a fifty six at fifty five, fifty
Speaker 1: at fifty and a half and then my and then
Speaker 1: my blueprint s pitching wedg.
Speaker 2: Okay, so you you've never have you gone four wedges before?
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously you're in the wedge out of the set,
Speaker 2: like the four wedges and why the switch back, I
Speaker 2: guess is what.
Speaker 1: I Yeah, So yeah, the set wedge, the blueprint ass
Speaker 1: pitching wedg. And I went to four wedges when I
Speaker 1: went from Arizona to Colorado because then my apping just
Speaker 1: exploded and I was like, you get up there in
Speaker 1: Colorado and uh, you're driving it far and then you
Speaker 1: have a lot of one hundred and twenty yard shots
Speaker 1: had a huge gap. So I got the gaps kind
Speaker 1: of dialed in and I've kept that ever since. I've
Speaker 1: really I've really enjoyed that. It's a skill to be
Speaker 1: able to develop, to be able to hit those tweeter wedges.
Speaker 1: That's actually something I need to work on a little bit.
Speaker 1: This year, we heard from Preston, who right here literally out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean what's our tea time.
Speaker 1: Yeah. When we did our podcast with Preston and he
Speaker 1: did his like strengths and weakness analysis off of his
Speaker 1: previous year. It was his number one thing he wanted
Speaker 1: to work on was his wedge gapping. He's gotten not
Speaker 1: a bad spot to work on it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is a it's a bit silly if
Speaker 2: you if you can't see behind us, we'll probably show
Speaker 2: it if you're watching the YouTube clip of this. But
Speaker 2: at the bird you can basically tell everything within five
Speaker 2: yards of every shot. I think up to one twenty
Speaker 2: five or one thirty. So if you're not a great
Speaker 2: wedge player while you're at ASU, it's your fault. I
Speaker 2: think that's like Dare say, I can try to make
Speaker 2: you better, but you probably have to put a little
Speaker 2: time in.
Speaker 1: Derek, what mistakes do you see some of your students
Speaker 1: come in with in terms of their wedges or maybe
Speaker 1: their lab wedge? First question and second question related to
Speaker 1: that is do you like to teach your players to
Speaker 1: use two wedges or do you want them to be
Speaker 1: like Weird Tiger and Onica Hey sixty degree learn how
Speaker 1: to use it from everywhere? Yep.
Speaker 4: So for myself growing up, I've always used again, every
Speaker 4: time I have a shot, you've seen it. Unfortunately, it's like,
Speaker 4: why is this going to bring this whole bag up
Speaker 4: to the shot. Well, I always bring my four wedges,
Speaker 4: and I like my last wedge to be my w
Speaker 4: I don't like playing like a forty eight there because
Speaker 4: I want it to not spin. So I want it
Speaker 4: to be somewhat of a set wedge in a sense
Speaker 4: that it won't check up when I want to hit
Speaker 4: it lower and have it not spin. Based on that,
Speaker 4: the question of what do you want a student to
Speaker 4: do short term? If they don't have time to practice
Speaker 4: and they like one club, I'm just gonna have them
Speaker 4: wear that club out right. We can work on some
Speaker 4: landing spots stuff, We can do some stuff like that.
Speaker 4: But then I say, hey, maybe long term, here's where
Speaker 4: you know, I feel like over time we can start
Speaker 4: to put the odds in our favor as we start
Speaker 4: to do less work. If I'm going to carry the
Speaker 4: ball less, have it, you know, be more predictable with spin.
Speaker 4: I feel like I'm doing less than a lot of people. Again,
Speaker 4: you see the social media stuff. When I play, I
Speaker 4: try to remove spin to be a little bit more
Speaker 4: predictable when I need to. So I feel like on
Speaker 4: stock short game shots, I'm doing less than most people.
Speaker 4: So I want that maybe for a long term college player, professional.
Speaker 3: But it's whatever is working right.
Speaker 4: So if someone comes to me, they say, well, geez,
Speaker 4: I don't really want to change this, And I say, well,
Speaker 4: your stats say you're last, so you know, we can
Speaker 4: kind of keep that in mind, but I wouldn't keep
Speaker 4: anything you're doing right. Or maybe they're doing something where
Speaker 4: the stats say, hey, the stats back this up, so
Speaker 4: we're going to look at that before we, you know,
Speaker 4: make too many decisions.
Speaker 2: Marty. That is it's interesting you asked that question. I
Speaker 2: feel like that's some and I struggle with a bit
Speaker 2: of my game is I'll walk up to a shot
Speaker 2: and I will almost allow myself too many options.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's.
Speaker 2: Like like an easy chip shot and it's like maybe
Speaker 2: it's fifty six and it's kind of low with like
Speaker 2: a little bit of spin, or maybe I get to
Speaker 2: the fifty and do the same thing. And I've been
Speaker 2: trying to lean a little bit more into just taking
Speaker 2: the one club up to the green, Like if you're
Speaker 2: riding a card or you're using your push card, you
Speaker 2: get it over the side, it's like just take one,
Speaker 2: so then you only have one option. Because I play
Speaker 2: four wedges in I mean it is easy to kind
Speaker 2: of get lost in the process as opposed to just
Speaker 2: going up there and going I know I could make
Speaker 2: this shot work with this club as long as I
Speaker 2: completely believe in it.
Speaker 1: I'm guilty of that. I'm guilty of that getting over
Speaker 1: that chip shot. I'm about to hit it, and I
Speaker 1: got my four clubs there, Ah, I swap it out.
Speaker 1: It doesn't feel right. Swap it out.
Speaker 2: It goes back to it's always the first choice. It's
Speaker 2: almost the right one to go with.
Speaker 1: Yeah, trust your instinct there a little biteah, and I
Speaker 1: think for that right.
Speaker 4: So when I bring up for my process would be
Speaker 4: I'm kind of trying to find that flatish spot two
Speaker 4: to three steps on the green or wherever's reasonable. If
Speaker 4: there's no slopes or anything we can negate that. I'll
Speaker 4: kind of find a spot and then just doing it
Speaker 4: for so long, it's like Okay, then what what club
Speaker 4: fits that window?
Speaker 3: And then it's like, okay, there's my club choice.
Speaker 4: So I'm kind of it's like I could land it
Speaker 4: here there, but I'm kind of I've kind of trained
Speaker 4: myself to kind of see the same kind of spot
Speaker 4: I want to land it and roll it out and
Speaker 4: then it's pretty easy to decide from there. But I
Speaker 4: can't understand like, well, I could do this, I could
Speaker 4: do this, I could do this.
Speaker 3: So at that.
Speaker 4: Point, that's where the benefits of you know, one club
Speaker 4: to just be like, hey, this is what you got
Speaker 4: to do.
Speaker 2: When you have college players or young professionals come to
Speaker 2: you for advice around the greens, what do you feel
Speaker 2: like as a shot that they consistently either struggle with
Speaker 2: or they're trying to get answers for. Because when you
Speaker 2: play golf with really good players, you know, a lot
Speaker 2: of the standard shots are good at what's one that
Speaker 2: maybe they all kind of ask you questions about?
Speaker 4: Yeah, short game is weird because some players will reach
Speaker 4: out because they're like, hey, I'm feeling kind of yippie okay, right,
Speaker 4: So at that point it's like, okay.
Speaker 3: How do we solve that?
Speaker 2: A lot of do you solve that?
Speaker 4: So it's very it's it's very player based because I've
Speaker 4: got some videos of some some yippers that you just
Speaker 4: you couldn't believe. So it's very player based, but it's
Speaker 4: essentially changing the way that they do things because usually
Speaker 4: in my case, I've never found it to be just
Speaker 4: mental it's this, it's a poor technical way to do
Speaker 4: it that over time. If I had to do it
Speaker 4: that way too, I'd be in a basket case as well.
Speaker 4: You're not having success, how can you picture success like
Speaker 4: you're seeing bad shots? I would be pretty negative too, right,
Speaker 4: I mean we haven't seen any success. So the yips
Speaker 4: are a little bit player to player. I get players
Speaker 4: a lot of players for spin, right, so that's kind
Speaker 4: of a forte of mine. But then I'll get a
Speaker 4: lot of players who they're like, you know, things are okay,
Speaker 4: but my stats don't back it up. So I've developed
Speaker 4: some ways that I like to see people practice with
Speaker 4: hitting some certain landing spots. I've got some metrics for
Speaker 4: if you have a certain shot with the landing zone
Speaker 4: should be, and that's where you know, Scott Fawcett's come
Speaker 4: down to do some work on that. So it's really
Speaker 4: you know, even in short game, it can be like, well,
Speaker 4: you know, I'm I'm hitting this shot, but it just
Speaker 4: kind of feels this way, right, So it's it's not
Speaker 4: quite full swing coach in that regards, but it can
Speaker 4: just be these almost weird requests at times where it's like, well,
Speaker 4: why does this do this, And so it's very can
Speaker 4: be general and it can be very specific.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Derek, let's talk a little bit about that marriage
Speaker 1: of teaching and fitting. We talked to Boyd Summer Hayes
Speaker 1: on the pod. He was like, if there's ever an
Speaker 1: issue with performance, I'm looking at the equipment first, right,
Speaker 1: Because he said, Tony and Preston they're they're kind of proud,
Speaker 1: they're not complainers. But quite often, hey, maybe it's if
Speaker 1: you're hitting your seven iron right, maybe the lion goes
Speaker 1: off or something. Right, what is that indication? If you
Speaker 1: get a player down there, everything's looking good mechanically, but
Speaker 1: they might not be in the right grind. What what
Speaker 1: do you see in the results? How do you diagnose that?
Speaker 1: How do you marry up the fitting the grind, fitting
Speaker 1: with instruction.
Speaker 4: So oftentimes, again if someone's struggling or just kind of
Speaker 4: you know, have some members at the club, because I
Speaker 4: teach a lot of high level players, and then at
Speaker 4: our club we have members from five handicaps to new golfers. Right,
Speaker 4: So when they come in and I might just see
Speaker 4: a club and I'm like, man, that club's way older
Speaker 4: than me. They just stick it in the ground because
Speaker 4: it's like a knife. I don't even know if bounce
Speaker 4: was invented yet, So I'm like, man, congrats, like this
Speaker 4: is kind of what you should be doing. I'll let
Speaker 4: them try my club. I'll let them try some other things,
Speaker 4: like oh man, I didn't know that. Once you explain
Speaker 4: the technology, you know how to use maybe the bottom
Speaker 4: of the club if that's something they struggle with, and
Speaker 4: then from there giving them some different options, asking what
Speaker 4: type of terrain sand shots they like to play, so
Speaker 4: we can kind of further dive into and I think
Speaker 4: that's where you know, some of the new stuff with
Speaker 4: the with the ping fitting app is going to be special.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the app is sensational. It's just simple
Speaker 2: to simplify all this stuff down to questions golfers can
Speaker 2: actually answer. Is such a unique thing, Marty. I mean
Speaker 2: I tout this all the time. I Mean, the innovation
Speaker 2: around ping has just been so cool because it's so
Speaker 2: easy to not easy, but it's easy in theory to
Speaker 2: present new technology and say this stuff's the next best thing,
Speaker 2: But to explain to a golfer why they need it
Speaker 2: or if they're using it the right way. I always
Speaker 2: go back to the adjustable drivers. When they first came out,
Speaker 2: it was an amazing technology, but average golfers had no
Speaker 2: idea how to figure out even what to do with
Speaker 2: the driver until it was simplified to a way where
Speaker 2: you could actually go, Okay, if I click it open here,
Speaker 2: then that adds one degree or takes one degree off
Speaker 2: exactly Wedges. I mean, we've talked about it here, We've
Speaker 2: talked to some other of the short game geniuses around ping,
Speaker 2: and I feel like the grinds and all of the
Speaker 2: options around Wedges makes sense, but it's very hard for
Speaker 2: an every day golfer to understand which one they even
Speaker 2: need for the golf course they player, the area they
Speaker 2: live in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think shaneing in Wedges people get
Speaker 1: paralyzed by what all the different grinds, all the different manufacturers.
Speaker 1: So the the big friction point or pain point we
Speaker 1: try to solve with that app is not only the
Speaker 1: grind get you in the right grind or down to
Speaker 1: two you can then go demo, try out and chip,
Speaker 1: but also we see a big problem with the gapping.
Speaker 1: And that's why I asked Derek about gapping, is how
Speaker 1: do you gap your set? Because people we see it
Speaker 1: all the time, they don't have the right spacing in
Speaker 1: their wedges and it's costing them a ton of shots.
Speaker 1: So the app kind of solves both those things.
Speaker 2: Derek, have you ever thought about going like seventy degree
Speaker 2: wedge or seventy five degree wedge? Just see what you
Speaker 2: can do with it.
Speaker 4: I would guess my dad, you know, he tends to
Speaker 4: get some of the infomercial clubs.
Speaker 3: He might have that option.
Speaker 4: All right, I've seen that, you know, the eighty degree
Speaker 4: wedge again at the hit you in the not at
Speaker 4: the club. You know, I've seen every late night TV
Speaker 4: golf club, you know, when they come up in their
Speaker 4: struggle at it's like, well, you know they've got this
Speaker 4: club and this club.
Speaker 1: And would there be any compliance on an eighty degree wedge?
Speaker 1: That's my question for you.
Speaker 4: You know what, if anyone who's going to make that
Speaker 4: ball comply, it's gonna be me. It'd be you, But
Speaker 4: Eric Hendrickson would probably say otherwise.
Speaker 2: Well, Derek, fascinating to hear your story. I mean, one
Speaker 2: of my favorite followers on Instagram, it's a tree teach
Speaker 2: to meet you in in three D human form. It's
Speaker 2: always nice when you get to do that with people.
Speaker 2: But keep grinding because, like I said, it's cool to
Speaker 2: have you as an ambassador, it's cool to have you
Speaker 2: in and around the PING team, and it's just fun
Speaker 2: to see what you're able to do, you know, with
Speaker 2: the wedges, because not a lot of humans on planet
Speaker 2: Earth can do what you do.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's it's really a win win.
Speaker 4: I think it's a bigger win for me than PING
Speaker 4: because I get utilize their resources. It's like going to
Speaker 4: a library and I'm you know, I'm excited to go there.
Speaker 4: It's like, oh I got a bug. Eric. Well, I
Speaker 4: think it's like a symbiotic relation. I'm kind of like, hey, Eric,
Speaker 4: what do you doing? Tomuri Isaiah got all these things.
Speaker 4: I'm like, could you want to hear me talk about
Speaker 4: what I'm saying? Can you draw some cool drawings for me?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Marty's card catalog is just his laptop of design
Speaker 2: features on the clubs. Yeah, it's like I said, it's
Speaker 2: it's awesome to have you a part of it and me.
Speaker 2: Thanks for your time.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, Thanks guys.
Speaker 2: This is the Ping Proving Grounds podcast
Speaker 4: E