Speaker 1: This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan
Speaker 1: Lazar and Alex bar Blazar and Lazarren.
Speaker 2: Hello, everybody nailed it. He joined us always by our.
Speaker 1: Here is Evan Lazar and Alex Barr better like on
Speaker 1: what relative to what?
Speaker 2: To them? If you said, who's a better baseball player?
Speaker 1: Show?
Speaker 2: Baby, I'm telling the show who's a better baseball player?
Speaker 1: Babe? Ruth Bob at Dolbeck.
Speaker 2: Hey, Patriots fan cat begins at the top of the show.
Speaker 2: We got those out of the way, We're gonna get
Speaker 2: right into it. We did get into a conversation that
Speaker 2: Alice is dying to talk about.
Speaker 1: Should not believe the take? He says he'll give it
Speaker 1: next week, So I'm not.
Speaker 2: I gotta scandalous, bar, I gotta watch a little bit more. Okay,
Speaker 2: all right, So full disclosure. I didn't want to do
Speaker 2: this at the top. I was gonna tease this at
Speaker 2: the end, but might as well because now everybody's just
Speaker 2: gonna be like, well, I'm not gonna listen to this show.
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna wait till next week. So my bye
Speaker 2: week project is that I am going to watch as
Speaker 2: many of the top guys at the top of the
Speaker 2: draft as I possibly can, because I know people on
Speaker 2: our show, they listen to our show for our draft takes.
Speaker 2: You're obviously always ahead of me at this point of
Speaker 2: the season, and they want to hear what I have
Speaker 2: to say about the top of the draft. So today
Speaker 2: it's a monumental day. It's it's really this is right
Speaker 2: in the heart of Catch twenty two. So I got
Speaker 2: to bring this up. It's a monumental day. When I
Speaker 2: go on my computer and I make the folder on
Speaker 2: my desktop twenty twenty five NFL Show and get it right,
Speaker 2: it's like it's literally, you know, you should really you know,
Speaker 2: I kind of feel like in Cristification when he goes
Speaker 2: and he plugs the lights in, they do the drum roll,
Speaker 2: Like that's exactly what it feels like for me when
Speaker 2: the draft not only the older on the desktop, but
Speaker 2: then he got the spreadsheet and everything starts rolling. So
Speaker 2: today and we can get to the take maybe at
Speaker 2: the end of the show if we have time. I
Speaker 2: downloaded the very first game of LSU.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say, don't say who it is, save that.
Speaker 2: To LSU's offense to watch one Will Campbell and start
Speaker 2: this thing off a little bit here. We gotta get
Speaker 2: it rolling, and it's a little disappointing I think all
Speaker 2: of us just to segue this right into the not
Speaker 2: Will Campbell is just clear, no, no, but to get
Speaker 2: to segue this into what's currently happening with the Patriots.
Speaker 2: It is definitely.
Speaker 1: Sad that now, for what the last at least two years,
Speaker 1: I would say, I mean twenty two they had his
Speaker 1: football season, so I wouldn't say twenty two counts, but
Speaker 1: for the last two years.
Speaker 2: Last year I watched the very first Drake May tape
Speaker 2: was the Pittsburgh game that Thursday night, Pittsburgh game. I
Speaker 2: watched the very first Drake May tape on Thursday before
Speaker 2: the game. So that's what I believe.
Speaker 1: Was Week fourteen, I want to say, yeah, it's like
Speaker 1: right for Christmas.
Speaker 2: So we're right, we're right in the same area Week thirteen, Week.
Speaker 1: Four you know, it was the week of Army Navy
Speaker 1: because's why they're playing on Thursday night. So first week
Speaker 1: in December.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we're right in the same area that I
Speaker 2: started watching draft.
Speaker 1: Did you watch Drake before you watch Jane Daniels?
Speaker 2: Uh No, I watched him in order. I watched Caleb
Speaker 2: Jayden Drake. I thank and so.
Speaker 1: You'd already started that, Yeah, yeah, and uh, you know
Speaker 1: it's not it's not what I want to be doing.
Speaker 1: I love the draft. Well, we both love the drafts.
Speaker 1: I shouldn't say it like that.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I'd much rather be focused on the
Speaker 2: NEP and what's happening with the Patriots right now. I
Speaker 2: absolutely would, and unfortunately we're just not in that place
Speaker 2: right now as a team. But before we get into
Speaker 2: all of that, I do want to say a couple
Speaker 2: of things here off the top about today's show. So
Speaker 2: we're all on for an hour. Because of Thanksgiving on Thursday,
Speaker 2: the whole week has kind of been flipped upside down
Speaker 2: this week here, so they're trying to cram a lot
Speaker 2: of things in so that everybody can take the day
Speaker 2: off on Thursday, as we should. So we're here for
Speaker 2: an hour. We're gonna try to take maybe some calls
Speaker 2: at the end, but I'm gonna tell you right now,
Speaker 2: we might not get the calls. So I just want
Speaker 2: to warn everybody off the bat right there. I'll be quick,
Speaker 2: and we have a few ad reads that I want
Speaker 2: to get to, just to get these out of the way,
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Speaker 2: dot com. Okay, so here's where I want to start
Speaker 2: the show, just talking about this game against the Dolphins.
Speaker 2: Has lost to Miami down in Miami, and I can't
Speaker 2: say that defensively, Alex, I'm all that surprised that they
Speaker 2: couldn't stop the Dolphins offense. Said it all last week,
Speaker 2: we talked about it on this show. Just didn't really
Speaker 2: seem like on paper they sized up very well against Miami.
Speaker 2: A lot of you know, issues in the middle of
Speaker 2: the field, particularly, I felt like linebackers, safety's speed for
Speaker 2: the Dolphins scheme. I mean, those things all kind of
Speaker 2: came to Roost. I think the biggest thing though, that
Speaker 2: came to Roost is this offensive line, and we've talked
Speaker 2: about it. I've gassed up a little bit how they've
Speaker 2: been able to hold this thing together with duct tape
Speaker 2: for a while here with Drake May and at least
Speaker 2: mitigate by coaching around it. Obviously, with Drake having him
Speaker 2: back there changes a lot ball comes out quicker, more
Speaker 2: athletic quarterback. But with all that being said, the Chickens
Speaker 2: came home to roost on Sunday with the penalties, the
Speaker 2: execution forty two percent pressure rate on May in this game.
Speaker 2: And I want to get into some of the nitty
Speaker 2: gritty details about how the Dolphins did it, but just
Speaker 2: in general, this felt like one of those games where
Speaker 2: we knew that this was a team that was far
Speaker 2: away and all the issues that we know exist all
Speaker 2: kind of came to play in one game.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and a lot of the Dolphins strengths match up
Speaker 1: with the Patriots weaknesses. I mean you look right there
Speaker 1: on the line and Chop Robinson, who's was one of
Speaker 1: their top draft picks and has been a good player
Speaker 1: for them this year, going up against the Patriots weakness
Speaker 1: it a tackle. The Dolphins have these great wide receivers.
Speaker 1: We talked last week about the depth at the secondary
Speaker 1: being a question and that got exposed again on Sunday. So, uh,
Speaker 1: tough matchup. You know, it hurts because so much of
Speaker 1: would beat them last week against the Rams came back
Speaker 1: to haunt them. You thought you might see a wrinkler
Speaker 1: or two to adjust. It's it's a you know again,
Speaker 1: a system they just in. Drod Mayo talked about this
Speaker 1: after the game. Similar system to the one that just
Speaker 1: beat them. It's also a team they're familiar with, Like
Speaker 1: this is the same Dolphins team that you know. It's
Speaker 1: a new coaching staff, but these guys on the defensive
Speaker 1: side of the ball have been preparing for for pretty
Speaker 1: much or however long they've been here. Right, McDaniel's been
Speaker 1: there since what twenty two, I think it was his
Speaker 1: first year twenty one, twenty two, I want to say
Speaker 1: twenty one. Yeah, so it's been a few years now,
Speaker 1: where like you kind of have an idea of what
Speaker 1: this offense is for Miami. So just from just about
Speaker 1: any angle you want to look at it not what
Speaker 1: you're looking for. I'd say, you know, Christian bar I
Speaker 1: almost feel bad because, like Christian Barmore sacked, that's an
Speaker 1: incredible achievement for a guy that was told that he
Speaker 1: might never play again to come back just within months
Speaker 1: and get a sack. I wish it game in a
Speaker 1: better game. You're right, so it could get to McDaniel,
Speaker 1: it could get a little more applause. But you know,
Speaker 1: outside of that, just really not what you're looking for.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think all of us would like to just
Speaker 2: see this team on an upward trajectory, not necessarily even
Speaker 2: wins and losses, almost just eye tests and just feel
Speaker 2: for how this team looks. And it felt like for
Speaker 2: the last month or so, you know, going back to
Speaker 2: that win against the Jets, but you have the Jets,
Speaker 2: you have an overtime loss to the Titans, you have
Speaker 2: a nice win there in Chicago, and then a competitive
Speaker 2: loss I would call it against the Rams. It felt
Speaker 2: like they were at least playing competitive, competent football in
Speaker 2: those weeks. For the most part, we certainly broke down
Speaker 2: some coaching miscues in Tennessee, mainly, I would say with
Speaker 2: the wind and you know, all that kind of stuff
Speaker 2: like that wasn't a great performance down in Nashville, but
Speaker 2: at least they got it the overtime and it was
Speaker 2: competitive and Drake May had his moments. All we're looking
Speaker 2: for is that upward trajectory and that feeling that they're
Speaker 2: making progress and they're getting better. And this certainly felt
Speaker 2: like a Category five hurricane down in Miami where all
Speaker 2: of that just went out the door with all the
Speaker 2: different issues. But I think the football minutia that I
Speaker 2: wanted to talk about one of the biggest things that
Speaker 2: I took away from this game. And I get the
Speaker 2: penalties on the offensive line, you can't just throw that out.
Speaker 2: We were just talking about this actually with Campbell and
Speaker 2: how much we care about the false starts that he's
Speaker 2: been called for. The penalty is you can't just throw
Speaker 2: out like that's part of the equation, that's part of details,
Speaker 2: that's part of being buttoned up and being ready to go.
Speaker 2: But at the same time, I do want to talk
Speaker 2: about the actual execution once the ball was properly snapped
Speaker 2: and they weren't false starting or whatever the case may be.
Speaker 2: And one of the big things that I've seen on
Speaker 2: film over the last two weeks and some of this
Speaker 2: is I would say, from a Rams perspective, this is
Speaker 2: just sort of how they play off a defense like this.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say that what they did against the Patriots
Speaker 2: was all that surprising, and that to me is why
Speaker 2: when the Rams blitzed Drake May, we had a lot
Speaker 2: of really positive clips to show from that game of
Speaker 2: Drake May beating the Blitz. Obviously, the crosser to Pop
Speaker 2: Douglas was probably the number one throw against the blitz,
Speaker 2: but it felt like in that game they were prepared
Speaker 2: to see the Blitz and they prepared for this exotic,
Speaker 2: you know, aggressive Rams defense with a really great pass rush.
Speaker 2: And we praised a VP last week for their plan
Speaker 2: to get the ball out of Drake's hands and how
Speaker 2: to beat that pressure and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: I kind of felt like this week against Miami that
Speaker 2: it took them by surprise how much they they tried
Speaker 2: to heat up Drake and tried to blitz him, and
Speaker 2: I don't necessarily know if that was what they anticipated
Speaker 2: on the game plan. So this sort of goes back
Speaker 2: to one of the coaching things that we talk about
Speaker 2: a lot, adjusting. You know, during the game, you know
Speaker 2: when you see that this is how they were going
Speaker 2: to try to play him. They blitzed him fear teen
Speaker 2: times in this game, and they had a lot of
Speaker 2: success with it. So if you see that this is
Speaker 2: what they're doing and this is sort of their plan
Speaker 2: once that game declares, then you need to adjust to
Speaker 2: it and adjust quickly. But the problem was and coinciding
Speaker 2: with the fact that I think they got taken a
Speaker 2: little bit by surprise by the aggressiveness of the Dolphins defense.
Speaker 2: You give up twenty four straight points in the second
Speaker 2: quarter and then it's blouses, right, So even if they
Speaker 2: go into halftime and make adjustments, it's kind of too
Speaker 2: late at that point. But just starting there with the blitzes,
Speaker 2: then I want to break down some of the things
Speaker 2: I saw in the film with why they struggled against it.
Speaker 2: To me, it's just another thing with this coaching staff
Speaker 2: that I have noticed, and that is when they go
Speaker 2: into games and they have a good plan and they
Speaker 2: sort of get what they're expecting and what they practice
Speaker 2: against all week. You see some good things from this
Speaker 2: team on both sides of the ball, but when they
Speaker 2: go into a game with a bad game plan, it
Speaker 2: just kind of it's just going to be a bad game.
Speaker 2: There's no adjustments and there's no real you know, counter
Speaker 2: punch er plan B when things don't go right.
Speaker 1: And specifically when it comes to those blitz az Drake
Speaker 1: May talked about this this morning, was blitzing from blitzing corners,
Speaker 1: blitzing safeties, blitzing from the second third level. And to
Speaker 1: your point, there were a couple times in the first
Speaker 1: half corners came in and I know there was one
Speaker 1: earlier one where Jalen Ramsey came in unblocked. Nobody counted
Speaker 1: for him, nobody saw it, and I think Drake May
Speaker 1: threw it away, maybe he took the sack whatever. Ramsey
Speaker 1: then comes in on a very similar look unblocked later
Speaker 1: in the game, which is the play that leads to
Speaker 1: the interception. Yeah, so that's it. And again Drake talked
Speaker 1: about it this morning that he's seeing more of that now.
Speaker 1: Teams are trying to get him to throw hot. Teams
Speaker 1: are blitzing from unorthodox places in order to try to
Speaker 1: catch him off guard, and that's something that you know
Speaker 1: usually you look at, Okay, they're starting to bring corners,
Speaker 1: let's leave the back end, let's be aware of this,
Speaker 1: and that wasn't there. And you see that in real time,
Speaker 1: you see it angibly where it leads to a turnover
Speaker 1: because Jalen Ramsey on a look that had already beat
Speaker 1: them once is allowed to replicate that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is gonna You're gonna love this because
Speaker 2: this is exactly one of the besides the clock management,
Speaker 2: game management stuff. Uh, this to me is exactly one
Speaker 2: of your your critiques about these types of offenses, these
Speaker 2: West Coast offenses. So I've gone a lot around the
Speaker 2: locker room today actually and was asking around to guys
Speaker 2: on the offensive side of the ball, like, how do
Speaker 2: you guys handle blitz pressure because everybody does it a
Speaker 2: little bit differently in terms of systems, right Like some
Speaker 2: systems do it one way, other systems do it in another.
Speaker 2: So I've seen a lot of this, and I myself
Speaker 2: included hand up. I thought the same thing about, for example,
Speaker 2: the throw over the middle of the field to pop
Speaker 2: Douglas that that drake through behind Douglas. A lot of
Speaker 2: people watch that and say, well, shouldn't Douglas settle here right, Like,
Speaker 2: shouldn't he stop his route and settle down and kind
Speaker 2: of sit down right there in the middle of the
Speaker 2: of the field instead of continuing running the slant. There
Speaker 2: was another play later on in the game where they
Speaker 2: blitz two guys from the field, including the star, including
Speaker 2: the nickel slot corner and Hunter. Henry has a crossing
Speaker 2: route and he just runs the crossing route. So in
Speaker 2: some offenses they would site adjust right, so like when
Speaker 2: that blitz comes, the receiver there on that side of
Speaker 2: the field, if you're lined up like just let's say
Speaker 2: you're lined up in the slot and the slot corner blitzes,
Speaker 2: you would just pop right up for the quarterback and
Speaker 2: make yourself availableright.
Speaker 1: Because you want to give him a chance. You want
Speaker 1: to replace the blitz right exactly. So some offenses, like
Speaker 1: the Patriots offenses of yesteryear with Josh McDaniels and Bill O'Brien,
Speaker 1: would have programmed sight adjustments into those concepts that they
Speaker 1: run to adjust the route to the pressure. In this offense,
Speaker 1: they have one route that's predetermined before the ball is
Speaker 1: even snapped based off the concept that is the quote
Speaker 1: unquote hot route, right, So it doesn't adjust, is my point.
Speaker 2: So they don't run quite as much conversion side adjustment
Speaker 2: or like option style plays like that where you might
Speaker 2: see that in the Josh McDaniels, Bill O'Brien, Charlie Weiss
Speaker 2: offense to Patriots don't do that anymore in this West
Speaker 2: Coast system. So to kind of unpack that even further
Speaker 2: last year in the Super Bowl, because this isn't just
Speaker 2: about like the Patriots and Drake May and Alex Van
Speaker 2: Pelt and you're gonna love this. Last year in the
Speaker 2: Super Bowl, Steve Spagnolo blitz the crap out of rock Party,
Speaker 2: right like that was sort of the game plan from
Speaker 2: Kansas City was to just heat up Purty and just
Speaker 2: blitz blitz splitz. And the reason why Spagnolo did that
Speaker 2: is because he knew that Kyle Shanahan in this offense,
Speaker 2: they were just gonna run the play. They weren't going
Speaker 2: they weren't gonna audible, they weren't gonna be sight adjustments.
Speaker 2: There weren't gonna be any changes they were just going
Speaker 2: to run the play. And so what Spagnolo did, which
Speaker 2: is exactly what Miami did in this game, is they
Speaker 2: blitz from the second and third level of the defense
Speaker 2: to make the quarterback hot, and then they were dropping
Speaker 2: players off the line of scrimmage into those hot zones
Speaker 2: right where you just are expecting and anticipating that that's
Speaker 2: where the designated, predetermined hot route is going to be.
Speaker 2: So as we get into you know this with this
Speaker 2: Alex Van Pelt offense, it's the same thing in the
Speaker 2: Super Bowl last year of why the Niners offense struggled
Speaker 2: against the Chiefs defense was because Purdy is just kind
Speaker 2: of left without a real answer against pressure. So it's
Speaker 2: one way of doing it. I think in this offense,
Speaker 2: the key for most of them is that they want
Speaker 2: to set the protection pre snap so that you're not hot.
Speaker 2: But that's obviously not always going to happen. And you know,
Speaker 2: one guy said to me, you know when you're caught
Speaker 2: with your pants down because you try to you set
Speaker 2: the protection, but they bring too many guys and you're
Speaker 2: just you're hot. You know the blitz is coming. You know,
Speaker 2: we have one predetermined route that Drake is supposed to
Speaker 2: throw hot to this player right now, There's always different
Speaker 2: ways to do things, and this system in this West
Speaker 2: Coast offense, it's been around since the eighties for a reason, right,
Speaker 2: Like it's been successful in the NFL. So it's not
Speaker 2: to sit here and say that it can't be successful.
Speaker 2: But I do think, you know, in terms of you
Speaker 2: guys listening and also myself, like we need to change
Speaker 2: our perception of you know, oh well this guy should
Speaker 2: be changing this route right because that doesn't necessarily exist.
Speaker 1: So then let me ask you this, how do you
Speaker 1: use a quarterback or use an offense beat that when
Speaker 1: when they're covering up that hot route and still blitzing elsewhere?
Speaker 1: How do you beat it?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a fair question, and I think it's one
Speaker 2: that certainly Shanahan and I think other guys in this
Speaker 2: tree have had trouble with, right of finding those answers.
Speaker 2: You know, when you see that pressure, like you're not
Speaker 2: in this offense, you're not supposed to like completely audible
Speaker 2: and change the play. You're not supposed to side adjust,
Speaker 2: So like how do you beat those things? This is
Speaker 2: I would say, probably the biggest flaw in this type
Speaker 2: of offense in the way that they run things.
Speaker 1: Now, so can I can I answer my own question
Speaker 1: in partant? Yeah, skill, like you just have to have
Speaker 1: guys that are right. Your hot receiver's not gonna be open.
Speaker 1: Do you have another guy that can just is winning
Speaker 1: quickly one on one on another route? Yeah, And that's
Speaker 1: obviously you know when you talk about the Patriots, it's
Speaker 1: something that's a net.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So you know you look at the one over
Speaker 2: the middle, just to go back and give examples, like
Speaker 2: the one over the middle of the Pop Douglas, he
Speaker 2: has a slant like it's he's running a slant, and
Speaker 2: so they move the back over right because again, remember
Speaker 2: if they recognize blitz threats, like they want to make
Speaker 2: sure at all costs that they are doing everything they
Speaker 2: can to make sure that the quarterback is not hot. Right,
Speaker 2: they don't want the defense to be able to make
Speaker 2: the quarterback hot.
Speaker 1: And what that means is just to unblocked blitzer. And
Speaker 1: I know that kind of sounds why wouldn't you block
Speaker 1: the blitzer? Well, if you recognize that there's a six
Speaker 1: man rush coming and you're supposed to have five guys
Speaker 1: in the pattern and you only have five blocking. Now
Speaker 1: somebody's hot or seven if you leave one in seven
Speaker 1: on six things right.
Speaker 2: So this is why I wanted to bring this up
Speaker 2: because there's a lot of heat right now on the
Speaker 2: offensive line. Yeah, and understandably, so you brought up Chop
Speaker 2: Robinson earlier, who had eleven quarterback pressures in this game.
Speaker 2: Nine of them we're on Trey Jacobs.
Speaker 1: And that was schemed glittering.
Speaker 2: Right, we're talking about one on one wins when we're
Speaker 2: talking about that. But I think a lot of these
Speaker 2: pressures came unblocked, like you were talking about free runners
Speaker 2: at the quarterback.
Speaker 1: And specifically defensive backs.
Speaker 2: So on the play to Douglas on the slant, which
Speaker 2: I think is being talked about a lot, Yeah, Drake
Speaker 2: may actually moves Remandre over from left to right. So
Speaker 2: he goes from you know, next to Drake and the
Speaker 2: gun on the left to next to Drake on the
Speaker 2: gun on the right. Because they see that they're three,
Speaker 2: that they're three over two on the right hand side
Speaker 2: of the offensive line. So now they're three on three.
Speaker 2: But if that extra dB blitzes, now they're four to
Speaker 2: over three. So now they're hot, right, and it's on
Speaker 2: the quarterback to get the ball out at that point. Basically,
Speaker 2: to think about it this way, the extra rusher is
Speaker 2: the quarterback's responsibility.
Speaker 1: Yes, you ready to put it.
Speaker 2: It's not the it's not the blockers responsibility. So when
Speaker 2: you see these guys running free through the line of scrimmage,
Speaker 2: don't play the offensive line all the time for that.
Speaker 2: Sometimes they just don't have the numbers to block these people.
Speaker 2: So that's going to happen in any offense. Yeah, So
Speaker 2: Jordan Poyer comes right and he blitzes, and then Pop
Speaker 2: Douglass is just running a slant. That's he's not supposed
Speaker 2: to sit right like, He's just supposed to run the slant,
Speaker 2: and Drake's under pressure the free runners coming right at him,
Speaker 2: and unfortunately he just misses the throw. Right, He just
Speaker 2: missed the throw And he said it after the game.
Speaker 2: I missed him like he just he wore it.
Speaker 1: That's what happens with pressure, you're less accurate.
Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of people think that that he was
Speaker 2: falling on the sword for his teammate, but I genuinely
Speaker 2: don't think he was.
Speaker 1: After talking to the guys, I think he was more
Speaker 1: last week talking about the interception than he was in
Speaker 1: this one. There's a bad throw. Yeah, So that was
Speaker 1: a big problem for them in this game. How they
Speaker 1: move forward, I think is a really good question for
Speaker 1: Alex van Pelt, because look, if teams see things on
Speaker 1: film that are successful, you know, they're gonna just replicate
Speaker 1: those things. They're just gonna keep doing it until the
Speaker 1: Patriots proved that they can answer it. And this Colts
Speaker 1: defense that they play this week, which I do want
Speaker 1: to talk about the Colts a little bit.
Speaker 2: They are a zone based defense. They good old Gus
Speaker 2: Bradley just still sticking to the Seattle three ten years later,
Speaker 2: right like he has not changed his stripes at all.
Speaker 2: So they don't blitz a ton. So my expectation is
Speaker 2: based off of just the film and the numbers and
Speaker 2: stuff that we all dive into. They're not probably not
Speaker 2: going to look at this game plan and say, we're
Speaker 2: gonna expect a lot of blitz pressure. Well, if they
Speaker 2: run a bunch of fire zone on Sunday, you know,
Speaker 2: blitz zone, then the Patriots have got to be ready
Speaker 2: for that, and they have to have better answers to
Speaker 2: what they were given last week against Miami, who did
Speaker 2: run a lot about what I would call fire zone
Speaker 2: or blit zone. So that's the offense. Like, to me,
Speaker 2: that was the game for the offense. Penalties was obviously
Speaker 2: number one. Number two was finding answers to pressure and
Speaker 2: to blitz pressure in particular. You know that third down
Speaker 2: play to Pop Douglas. That was kind of the game
Speaker 2: in a lot of ways because the defense wasn't stopping
Speaker 2: Miami and once they gave up that when once they
Speaker 2: missed that opportunity, and if you see it on the film,
Speaker 2: like if he hits Pob Douglas in stride there, then
Speaker 2: that is a house call. Like there's you know, the
Speaker 2: safeties are widening, it's split safety there. They're going out
Speaker 2: like this. The middle of the field is wide af open,
Speaker 2: and if he just hits them in stride like it's
Speaker 2: that's a huge, huge play. That's that was sort of
Speaker 2: the game right there. It felt like to me at
Speaker 2: that moment, I do I.
Speaker 1: Get why you want to bring up schematically issues with
Speaker 1: the pressures, but I do think it is worth talking
Speaker 1: about the offensive line too. Yeah, and the issues oh yeah,
Speaker 1: specifically the tackles. Look, penalties aren't excusable, especially the pre
Speaker 1: snap penalties. I mean that's you can't have that. You
Speaker 1: can't what was it four or five fall starts between
Speaker 1: the two of them, Yeah, just too many. And that's
Speaker 1: why I know you don't want to do the draft
Speaker 1: so we don't have to go all the way down
Speaker 1: this road. But I think I texted you during the game, like,
Speaker 1: get over Ted McMillan, because this game is a reminder
Speaker 1: that tackle is their biggest need. I know some people
Speaker 1: had gotten caught up in what Vederian Lowe had done
Speaker 1: through the past couple of weeks, and he had been decent,
Speaker 1: but he was kind of punching above his weight there,
Speaker 1: and I think that was the continuity of the offensive
Speaker 1: line helping out. I think some of it was the
Speaker 1: opponents as well, But you kind of see where that
Speaker 1: floor is, and that floor is not a starting caliber tackle.
Speaker 1: So right tackle Jantary Jacobs obviously wasn't great either. I
Speaker 1: think over there you kind of hope Caden Walls shows
Speaker 1: you something. We'll see when he gets back. He wasn't
Speaker 1: at practice today, but if they can get him back
Speaker 1: and he shows you something, you go into next year
Speaker 1: with him as kind of your hopeful starting right tackle.
Speaker 1: But left tackle issue number one because there really isn't
Speaker 1: anybody else in the pipeline either, and between the penalties,
Speaker 1: the not just pressure, but I mean blowbys. And I
Speaker 1: don't know if that's a technical term, it's what I
Speaker 1: use it basically. I mean it's it's what it sounds like.
Speaker 1: Does the defensive lineman blow by you a non competitive
Speaker 1: rep where it's you know, not even al right, he
Speaker 1: beat me, but it was after a second or two,
Speaker 1: so I had a chance. And I mean it wasn't
Speaker 1: just on pass plays. The first run play of the game,
Speaker 1: and I know it's designed where where we're lows sort
Speaker 1: of pulling, but the guy sort of hits him on
Speaker 1: the side and he doesn't do much to react. And
Speaker 1: we see them run that drill at practice where they
Speaker 1: hit the blocking sled from the side. Yeah, and I've
Speaker 1: always kind of thought that's an interesting drill. I'm like,
Speaker 1: how often does this come up first play the game?
Speaker 1: That's exactly what that looked like. And no resistance and
Speaker 1: you know Jacobs too obviously either really quick wins or
Speaker 1: just outright blowbys by John Robinson, and it was it's
Speaker 1: just a reminder that this is It was good for
Speaker 1: a few weeks. I think that was more the exception.
Speaker 1: I think when we saw Sunday, if they were to
Speaker 1: run it back in another year with either these guys are
Speaker 1: both these guys like Sunday, I think is more would
Speaker 1: would you can expect?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you know, just quickly maybe not quite that bad,
Speaker 2: but yeah, just like quickly on the actual evaluating the
Speaker 2: actual play on the field from Sunday, I thought Jacobs
Speaker 2: was much worse when the ball was snapped. Like Lowe's
Speaker 2: problems were mostly the penalties. He had a couple of
Speaker 2: pressures allowed in this game, and I digged him for
Speaker 2: a few run blocks, but like it wasn't they didn't really.
Speaker 1: Run the ball. The run blocking to me with him
Speaker 1: was worse than the pass blockers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe I didn't run the ball a ton traditionally
Speaker 2: because of the score, So I don't. I didn't really
Speaker 2: like overanalyze some of the run blocking in this game,
Speaker 2: but obviously on the other side at right tackle, Like
Speaker 2: to me, Jacobs his bigger issue.
Speaker 1: Was actually executing blocks in the past game.
Speaker 2: And I think the biggest thing that you see with
Speaker 2: him is he just plays with a really really short
Speaker 2: corner because he doesn't get out of his stance really quickly.
Speaker 2: He just not doesn't really get a lot of initial
Speaker 2: kick out of his jump set, and that causes him
Speaker 2: to give up the edge in a hurry. And when
Speaker 2: you face dynamic rushers like Chop Robinson who have that
Speaker 2: speed and that explosiveness off the line of scrimmage every week,
Speaker 2: that's just huge mismatch for Trey Jacobs. Whenever there's a
Speaker 2: player like that that's a screamer off the edge, I'd
Speaker 2: much rather him play like a bull rusher, you know,
Speaker 2: because those guys aren't gonna threaten his corner as much
Speaker 2: when you play somebody like a Chop Robinson. When you
Speaker 2: play someone like this week, if if they you know,
Speaker 2: he rushes over the left tackle most of the time,
Speaker 2: but if they flip Blay two Latu this week for
Speaker 2: Indianapolis and they put him over Trade Jacobs, like, that's
Speaker 2: another one of those, you know, young screamers coming off
Speaker 2: the edge, that was gonna give him problems. So I
Speaker 2: don't The reason why I don't get too caught up,
Speaker 2: I guess, like, and why I got more into the
Speaker 2: scheme with the offensive line is because I just don't
Speaker 2: expect these guys to.
Speaker 1: Be back in these spots next year. Well, I think,
Speaker 1: you know, people had started more so Low because with Jacobs,
Speaker 1: like Kane Wallace is still here. I think with Low
Speaker 1: because people get so enticed by traps Hunter, Ted McMillan,
Speaker 1: Will Johnson, Carter, serviceable and right. They had started talking
Speaker 1: themselves into that, and it's like, this is a good
Speaker 1: reminder of well there will be games like this if
Speaker 1: you stick with him, you can't have that. And you know,
Speaker 1: I start to worry about here what it's going to
Speaker 1: look like over the last the last five weeks. I
Speaker 1: know you roll your eyes at this, Yeah, but is like,
Speaker 1: we'll get to Drake is he gonna start developing bad
Speaker 1: habits because he had to change the way he played
Speaker 1: because of the tackle play and honestly, the play calling
Speaker 1: it felt like to me because we saw this in September.
Speaker 1: We hadn't seen it in a while, but we saw
Speaker 1: it in September. The play calling was impacted by the
Speaker 1: tackle play, and I think the play calling got overly
Speaker 1: conservative at times out of a out of a reason,
Speaker 1: out of necessity to protect Drake by because the line
Speaker 1: wasn't doing it. So that was just you know, I
Speaker 1: came in last week after the Rams game, saying, if
Speaker 1: you're somebody wants Patriots to take Will Johnson or take
Speaker 1: Travis Hunter as a corner, like, this is your week
Speaker 1: to be loud, this is your week to speak up.
Speaker 1: That's what that looked like on the field. I hope
Speaker 1: you took advantage last week because this week was back
Speaker 1: to reality in terms of what their biggest need is
Speaker 1: actually his.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I guess, you know, just to piggyback off that,
Speaker 2: I just don't necessarily feel like harping on or kind
Speaker 2: of killing the current tackles is like worth it, because yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm not like saying that's what you're doing. I just like,
Speaker 2: these guys are just not gonna be there next year.
Speaker 2: I think I feel pretty comfortable saying that they're not
Speaker 2: going to go into the season week one expecting Vederian
Speaker 2: Low to be their starting enough tackle. You they've had
Speaker 2: some terrible luck. And I'm not saying that to excuse
Speaker 2: the personnel department, but obviously, like we got to this
Speaker 2: point with Vederian Low being the starting left tackle, so
Speaker 2: anything could happen, like injuries, you know, chooks, the core
Speaker 2: for quitting, like whatever the case may be, Like we
Speaker 2: got here, you know, this year. So I'm not gonna
Speaker 2: say it's totally impossible to get there next year. But
Speaker 2: I would assume that you're drafting a left tackle, maybe
Speaker 2: Caden Wallace is you give him some leash at right tack.
Speaker 1: A top one hundred pick on him. You got it.
Speaker 1: You gotta see it. And that's why hopefully he gets back.
Speaker 1: Drawd Mayo said today, will be back soon. Hopefully he
Speaker 1: gets back sooner, rasing later, so you can get I
Speaker 1: mean they got five games left, right, four games, five games,
Speaker 1: say that's a decent enough sample size we're going in
Speaker 1: the next year. You should at the very least, I
Speaker 1: think you'll know if he's totally not it in five games.
Speaker 1: You may not know for sure that he's a long
Speaker 1: term answer, but I think you can say enough see
Speaker 1: enough in five games to say, all right, it's worth
Speaker 1: going into the season and seeing what we have in him,
Speaker 1: and then maybe you get you know. Matt Dolff brought
Speaker 1: this up to me. I thought it was a good
Speaker 1: way to put it, Like the Austin Hooper of tackles
Speaker 1: in free agency, who can just kind of be there.
Speaker 1: You're gonna he's a young guy, you're gonna have a
Speaker 1: young guy on the left side to just kind of
Speaker 1: be available to fill in where he's needing.
Speaker 2: That's sort of where I was gonna go with the
Speaker 2: next It's a good way to put it. I think
Speaker 2: we're back into sign one draft Soto Baby. I appreciate
Speaker 2: everybody who tweeted that at me. Yeah that was two
Speaker 2: years ago, right, No, I think that was last year.
Speaker 2: I think it was two years two years ago with that,
Speaker 2: like mcglinchy McGarry.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it was that that class. And then who
Speaker 1: was it from Georgia? Uh, who's the guy the Steelers
Speaker 1: talk Proderick Jones. Yeah, Broderick Jones and Dewan Jones and
Speaker 1: so honestly, it was cool seeing so many people. I
Speaker 1: had reminder as would have been two years ago, you
Speaker 1: guys still remember. I appreciate that.
Speaker 2: I definitely think we're back in that territory. And to
Speaker 2: Matt's point, it's not necessarily to go out there and
Speaker 2: get a franchise.
Speaker 1: That was more about getting two starters. So it's a
Speaker 1: little ye.
Speaker 2: So, you know, can we get a starting tackle and
Speaker 2: free agency and then get the guy you know probably
Speaker 2: at left tackle in the in the draft uh to
Speaker 2: uh to rind up this line, and then I would
Speaker 2: also expect, you know, just based off of what the
Speaker 2: coaching staff has said about him, you know, Cole Strange
Speaker 2: I think is gonna be a factor in the interior
Speaker 2: next year. David Andrews will be back, yeah uh, and
Speaker 2: then Mike on Wenny will obviously still be here. So
Speaker 2: like when you really think about it, on when it
Speaker 2: was probably the only guy on this offensive line that
Speaker 2: should be starting for this team next year in Week one,
Speaker 2: And that's my expectation.
Speaker 1: On this like currently right the play right, Well, I
Speaker 1: think we're gonna see cool Strange soon, especially because Michael
Speaker 1: Jordan had a rough game and we talked about this
Speaker 1: last week, Michael Jordan, Ben Brown, Who's gonna lose their job?
Speaker 2: Ben Brown?
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think you're gonna put the tape
Speaker 1: from Ben Brown in the Hall of Fame. But he
Speaker 1: was fine, Michael Jordan was not. So you look at
Speaker 1: that and it's just.
Speaker 2: So much easier. And I'm not trying to take away
Speaker 2: from the great centers like David Andrews and Jason Kelcey
Speaker 2: and those guys, but like it's so much easier to
Speaker 2: scheme around a center.
Speaker 1: It is, but but looking at that game, who's getting
Speaker 1: pulled for cole Strange factoring into the no that's that's
Speaker 1: sort of my point, Like if you're gonna have a
Speaker 1: guy that is kind of a weak link, so to speak,
Speaker 1: and I'm not ready to pronounce that cole Strange is
Speaker 1: not one of those guys, but just saying like, if
Speaker 1: you're gonna have a guy that is a weak link,
Speaker 1: then I'd much rather be at center.
Speaker 2: Like at center, you can help, you can ship. Like
Speaker 2: not a lot of teams line up guys like over
Speaker 2: the center, Like it's usually shaded into one of the
Speaker 2: gaps in the A gap, So like at that point
Speaker 2: you have the guard that can like give him a
Speaker 2: bump or like something right side the protection that direction,
Speaker 2: so the center sliding out to the A gap or whatever.
Speaker 2: Like there's so many ways to make life easier on
Speaker 2: a center versus guards that can you know, and tackles
Speaker 2: that can really get more isolated and more targeted by teams.
Speaker 2: And with Michael Jordan, you just see like he can't
Speaker 2: pick up postline movement, like every time they run his
Speaker 2: stunt over his side of the line of scrimmage on
Speaker 2: the left hand side. He's just not picking it up,
Speaker 2: like his eyes are not picking it up, and he's
Speaker 2: not you know, passing it off with Vederian low like
Speaker 2: he should be. And even the strip sack, I felt
Speaker 2: like Michael Jordan I wasn't really sure what he was
Speaker 2: doing on that play either. You know, he goes with
Speaker 2: what the blitzer, so does Remondre Stevenson, and they leave
Speaker 2: Vederian Lowe with a guy that shaded inside his inside
Speaker 2: shoulder trying to leverage that blot Like, good luck with
Speaker 2: that right you know, you're not gonna be able to
Speaker 2: get that that blocked that way. So I was surprised.
Speaker 2: I'm surprised about that a little bit with Jordan, just
Speaker 2: because he has played in the league. Here's a fifth
Speaker 2: year guy, like he's played some NFL.
Speaker 1: P we talked about in kenn He's like one of
Speaker 1: the most experienced linemen ins.
Speaker 2: And yet when it comes to like line movement or
Speaker 2: or post snap movement by defensive lines, uh, he just
Speaker 2: can't pick it up for whatever reason, he just doesn't
Speaker 2: see it coming. So uh yeah, you know, like the
Speaker 2: offensive line we've known as a problem. I I still
Speaker 2: think that a big part of this game plan though,
Speaker 2: And this, this issue with this offense on Sunday had
Speaker 2: to do with their adjustments and their answers to pressure,
Speaker 2: which were kind of non existent for most of this game.
Speaker 2: And uh, this is this is a feather in your
Speaker 2: cap for these types of offenses, my friend, like, this
Speaker 2: is not I trying to tell you. This is what
Speaker 2: they do against against the West Coast Tree.
Speaker 1: I've been trying to tell you.
Speaker 2: I think the one guy that's like solved it, and
Speaker 2: I would you know, maybe this is an off season thing,
Speaker 2: but like Andy Reid's kind of solved it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's had twenty something.
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe you had quarterbacks.
Speaker 1: And yeah, he said Patrick Mahomes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so maybe that helps. I don't know, but he's
Speaker 2: one guy that that seems to figured out. Let's flip
Speaker 2: over to the defense. Do you have ups and downs?
Speaker 2: He told me you didn't do that.
Speaker 1: Well. I usually do them on Tuesday and I just
Speaker 1: have I mean I can do them off top my Yeah.
Speaker 2: It's unprepared per usual marine Like God, at one time,
Speaker 2: can you prepare one time?
Speaker 1: I'm literally usually what time is it's like four o'clock.
Speaker 1: I'm literally usually doing them right now on Tuesday.
Speaker 2: Okay, well we'll get to that in a second. But defensively,
Speaker 2: look right now, defensive is scary, and it's scaring me
Speaker 2: because they still have some major, major holes to fill
Speaker 2: on the offensive side of the football, holes that are
Speaker 2: gonna take high end resources to fill. Like you just
Speaker 2: don't pluck left tackles and wide receiver ones out of
Speaker 2: thin air, like you have to go and invest in
Speaker 2: those types.
Speaker 1: Of players, maybe both.
Speaker 2: So now all of a sudden that we're starting to
Speaker 2: see some significant holes on the defensive side of the football,
Speaker 2: you start to think to yourself, well, where are they
Speaker 2: going to get all these guys right? So I do
Speaker 2: think the one benefit that they have looking at this defense.
Speaker 2: I came away from this game kind of down on
Speaker 2: Marcus Jones because he obviously gave up a lot of
Speaker 2: yards in this game to Jalen and Waddle. But when
Speaker 2: I watched the game back on film, I actually thought
Speaker 2: the middle of the field was a much bigger problem.
Speaker 2: Like Marcus Jones has his limitations. He's always going to
Speaker 2: be five foot eight, right, it's always going to be he's.
Speaker 1: A slot corner, like that was my I thought he
Speaker 1: was in the right spot more often than the numbers
Speaker 1: would indicate. Yeah, like there there were two three plays
Speaker 1: where he's right there and Jalen Wall just climbs the
Speaker 1: ladder and goes against the football. Yeah right, I say
Speaker 1: this all the time. At a certain point five eighths,
Speaker 1: five eight, you can't coach II, right. I think he's
Speaker 1: a slot corner. I think he's a good slot corner.
Speaker 1: But I think he's a slot corner. And for two
Speaker 1: years now, they've been two non consecutive years. I guess
Speaker 1: they've been trying to play him on the boundary to
Speaker 1: hetch their death at a necessity, but not even And
Speaker 1: maybe this game is a bad example because the Dolphins
Speaker 1: have so much speed. But I talked about this last week.
Speaker 1: Alex Austin has the size to play on the boundary.
Speaker 1: Isaiah Bolden maybe doesn't have the and and Austin made
Speaker 1: plays down the stretch last year. Yeah, Like, we know
Speaker 1: he's a capable NFL corner. He's not an All Pro,
Speaker 1: but he's capable NFL corner. Isaiah Bolden we haven't seen,
Speaker 1: so there's the experience thing. But this is a guy
Speaker 1: that has athleticism, has size. At what point, like how
Speaker 1: many times do you have to see Marcus Jones get lost?
Speaker 1: And it's not against Marcus Jones. I think he's been
Speaker 1: put in a bad spot. Yeah, to be all right,
Speaker 1: we're gonna give Bolden a shot, or we're gonna give
Speaker 1: Austin a shot.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So the way I looked at it with Marcus
Speaker 2: Jones too is, you know, as the game were on,
Speaker 2: and I know some of it came in the second
Speaker 2: half when most people would probably say it was garbage time,
Speaker 2: but he gave up some plays and then he made
Speaker 2: some plays on the ball too. He competes, Yeah, so
Speaker 2: he competes. I had no problem really in this game
Speaker 2: on the whole with what Marcus Jones did, and I
Speaker 2: had no problems with what Christian Gonzales did either. I
Speaker 2: thought he's a stud, yeah, but I thought he you know,
Speaker 2: those two guys at corner, we were competitive throughout the game.
Speaker 2: The big issue that they had in this game was,
Speaker 2: you know, I don't know what's going on with Kyle Duggar.
Speaker 2: You know that.
Speaker 1: I mean, you hope it's just the ankle.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have no idea what's going on with him mentally.
Speaker 2: His eyes were in the wrong place this entire game.
Speaker 2: His head was spinning. He had no idea where which
Speaker 2: way was up right, like it was a bizarre Kyle.
Speaker 1: So what you hope is you'll hear this guy sometimes
Speaker 1: talk about this. When you have a lower body injury,
Speaker 1: something that's gonna impact your ability to move to pop,
Speaker 1: explode right, get change direction. You start overthinking the anticipation
Speaker 1: because you can't read and react in the same speed
Speaker 1: you normally do, so you try to get ahead of things,
Speaker 1: and then to do that you have to gamble and
Speaker 1: that can cost you big time. So you hope that's
Speaker 1: what is Kyle Just his ankle's not one hundred percent,
Speaker 1: He's he's jumping the gun and the reads aren't right, like,
Speaker 1: that's what you hope. If if it's just too complex
Speaker 1: for him, which he's you go back a couple of years,
Speaker 1: very instinctive player, which is why it's so surprising. But
Speaker 1: if it's if his ankle really is limiting him that much,
Speaker 1: maybe he's out there. Because again I had of necessity,
Speaker 1: they're so banged up, But that was that was my
Speaker 1: first thought. It just felt like he was maybe pressing
Speaker 1: a bit much to try to compensate for for maybe
Speaker 1: not being one hundred percent physically.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I had him for I think seventy six
Speaker 2: yards allowed in coverage, and I felt like he was
Speaker 2: responsible or at least had a hand in all four
Speaker 2: touchdowns that the Dolphins scored in this game. So his
Speaker 2: head was spinning in it. And it wasn't just plays
Speaker 2: where he was actually the primary target either. It was
Speaker 2: plays where he was playing zones over the middle or
Speaker 2: help defense over the middle of the field, and he
Speaker 2: just wasn't in the right place as the entire game.
Speaker 2: And then you also go back to the fact continually
Speaker 2: still that they have issues at line and coverage. And
Speaker 2: we've talked about this for how many years going back now,
Speaker 2: you know, probably since we started covering this team, right
Speaker 2: that their linebackers.
Speaker 1: Aren't good in space and miss Mackills.
Speaker 2: Don't don't cover well. Uh so, you know, Jelani taviz
Speaker 2: Ony Taki Taki, Christian Ellis, you know, they put these
Speaker 2: guys on the field and these teams, you know, guys
Speaker 2: that these teams are smart. They are just stretching those
Speaker 2: guys out and they're just attacking them in the middle
Speaker 2: of the numbers, right between the numbers. So you look
Speaker 2: at this game from Tua. He he did it like
Speaker 2: that was where he did most of his damage. It
Speaker 2: wasn't on the corners right like it was a lot
Speaker 2: of it was on linebackers and safeties. And so now
Speaker 2: we just add that into the mix of you know,
Speaker 2: they probably do need a true second boundary or outside corner.
Speaker 1: Oh that was Matt's take. He wasn't tackles the Austin
Speaker 1: Hooper corners.
Speaker 2: Okay, well that's also true now, that.
Speaker 1: To which I said Jason mccordy twenty nineteen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that I think you can find in free agency legitimately,
Speaker 2: you know, like they'll be guys available. I don't know
Speaker 2: if all of them will hit free agency by you know,
Speaker 2: DJ Reed, Javarius Ward, Carlton Davis, Like they have the
Speaker 2: money to go out and pay one of those.
Speaker 1: Carlon Davis a great and he's I was a big
Speaker 1: fan of Carlton Davis when Brady was in Tampa. You know,
Speaker 1: I thought he was like gonna break out, really physical guy,
Speaker 1: not quite the player he was, but opposite Gonzales, I
Speaker 1: think would give you enough.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they have him, uh or they have that need,
Speaker 2: then they have what I would just call in general,
Speaker 2: and I were talking about this on on PU a
Speaker 2: little bit. It's like a philosophical need as much as
Speaker 2: it is a personnel need to me, Like, how do
Speaker 2: you want, Like what's a Patriot linebacker now? Like, as
Speaker 2: a Patriot linebacker now still going to be Jilani Tava,
Speaker 2: Juan Bentley, you know, two fifty two fifty five. Well,
Speaker 2: the weird thing is that is that what we're still doing.
Speaker 1: Bentley just got good at covering guys at two sixty.
Speaker 2: Yeah, his instincts and like his reads and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: Really, you're probably not gonna just find that, like you're
Speaker 1: gonna that that's something you have to develop. Now. This
Speaker 1: is I know you said you don't want to go
Speaker 1: back to the draft, and I keep going back to
Speaker 1: the draft. I think there's a really good linebacker class,
Speaker 1: especially with these kind of guys. So maybe they find
Speaker 1: that guy, but like that's the I think the guy
Speaker 1: they want is a two hundred fifty pound guy that
Speaker 1: can cover those guys aren't falling off trees. Yeah, like
Speaker 1: you gotta even if you feel like Fred Warner, right,
Speaker 1: Fred Warner, but he's only like two thirty, right, right,
Speaker 1: He's not set two forty five.
Speaker 2: He's not that big relatively speaking, like obviously he's an
Speaker 2: NFL linebackers. I'm not saying he's a small guy. But
Speaker 2: like where Fred Warner is, like, you know, a unique specimen.
Speaker 1: I thought he was much thirty.
Speaker 2: No, yeah, he's got that. He's he's just a freak, right,
Speaker 2: And so you look at that, and I just think
Speaker 2: this is a big question. You know, not well, I
Speaker 2: think it's important for us to push things forward as
Speaker 2: always and uh and look ahead with this team, especially
Speaker 2: in the state they're in right now. I just wonder
Speaker 2: from an evaluation standpoint, like when Gerad goes to Elliott
Speaker 2: Wolfe and says, like this is what I need, Like,
Speaker 2: you know, are we still going with the Belichick prototypes?
Speaker 2: Because what I see defensively, and I'm willing to chalk
Speaker 2: the Dugger game up to one really bad game for now,
Speaker 2: but just in general, what I'm seeing with with with
Speaker 2: the defense is that all these tweeers, like all these
Speaker 2: hybrid type players to buy Dugger Mapu, even who I
Speaker 2: think could be a useful player if you used correctly,
Speaker 2: but you still you're still banging the table Fornaer.
Speaker 1: But like all these players that that Belichick brought in
Speaker 1: that he kind of had that secret sauce of like
Speaker 1: I know exactly how to use Jolani Tova right, Like
Speaker 1: I know exactly what he is, I know what his
Speaker 1: weaknesses are. I know exactly how we're going to cover
Speaker 1: him up.
Speaker 2: Like I don't know if they have that kind of
Speaker 2: coaching anymore, and they might need guys that are more
Speaker 2: not Belichick system fits, which is like his own thing,
Speaker 2: but like just traditional system fits and the type of.
Speaker 1: Sit I on that just well rounded because what they
Speaker 1: would do Jilani Tavai kyle Vin Noy is a great
Speaker 1: example of this. Juan Bentley early in his career. Again,
Speaker 1: he's he rounded his game out the last year, so
Speaker 1: he just starts a ton of credit for that. But
Speaker 1: like a lot of the Belichick linebacker things, it felt
Speaker 1: like was predicated on because they would keep a ton
Speaker 1: of linebackers on the roster. Nose, I'm gonna ask you
Speaker 1: to do one thing. You get like, all right, this
Speaker 1: guy can't cover, but he can shoot a gap, or
Speaker 1: this guy you know, can't shoot a gap, but he's
Speaker 1: really good on the edge or whatever, and it's like
Speaker 1: we're gonna have you do this one thing, and it
Speaker 1: maybe some of it is just personnel, they're so banged up,
Speaker 1: but it feels like they now are asking linebackers to
Speaker 1: have a more comprehensive role, and you need a different
Speaker 1: kind of player for that. You need a guy. Maybe
Speaker 1: you can't get a guy that's elite at one thing.
Speaker 1: You gotta take a little bit less from the one
Speaker 1: trait and find a guy that's more of a well
Speaker 1: rounded player. The thing is, those well rounded players are
Speaker 1: usually a little bit on the smaller side. So if
Speaker 1: you still want that two hundred and fifty five pounds
Speaker 1: in a linebacker, that guy's probably gonna be lacking in coverage.
Speaker 1: So okay, you want to go find the two hundred
Speaker 1: and thirty pound linebacker to spell him in coverage. You
Speaker 1: want to go find mac Wilson. You can do that,
Speaker 1: but then you have to be willing to make those
Speaker 1: substitutions and have those different packages, which again, it just
Speaker 1: feels like this year, and maybe it's just because they
Speaker 1: have no bodies, but this year it feels more like
Speaker 1: they're at like asking Jolani to vie to cover. He
Speaker 1: wasn't asked to do that the last few years. People
Speaker 1: say How why did Jelanie Devi get so much worse
Speaker 1: in one season. I don't think he got worse. He's
Speaker 1: just being asked to do things he wasn't asked to
Speaker 1: do the last two years, and they're not strengths of
Speaker 1: his and he's doing less of the things that are strengths.
Speaker 1: But they maybe need him doing it because when Bentley
Speaker 1: goes down, who else is playing off the ball? They
Speaker 1: tried McMillan, he wasn't playing well. You know, They've moved
Speaker 1: on to Christian Ellis and that's work to an extent.
Speaker 1: He's been better than Tavia was. But maybe it's not necessarily.
Speaker 1: Maybe the prototype is just the well rounded guy. It's
Speaker 1: not a specialist.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think it's a good way of putting it.
Speaker 2: And it's just something that I've been thinking about with
Speaker 2: with Mayo, DeMarcus Covington, you know, assuming that that cover
Speaker 2: who look, I'll say this about the entire coaching staff.
Speaker 2: Girodmeo needs to go into this offseason with his eyes
Speaker 2: wide open about his coaching staff. I remember back and
Speaker 2: I'm sure you probably remember this at the list a
Speaker 2: little bit when they hired their coaches. One of the
Speaker 2: first things that he said at his press conference when
Speaker 2: he introduced the coordinators was that he might not get
Speaker 2: it right on the first try, right, like there might
Speaker 2: be some coaches where he didn't get it right on
Speaker 2: the first try. And I just look at that across
Speaker 2: the board, like I'm not trying to single anybody out.
Speaker 2: I look at it across the board on the staff
Speaker 2: like it just might not be the answer, right, And
Speaker 2: you have to move on quickly in this league, because really,
Speaker 2: I would say after the year that they've had this year,
Speaker 2: assuming that they don't go and rattle off five straight wins,
Speaker 2: which I think we can all safely assume they have
Speaker 2: one more year before it really starts to get testy
Speaker 2: with your odd mao, right, like he's got one more season.
Speaker 2: Next year, they're gonna draft high, they're gonna spend a
Speaker 2: bunch of money on players, and then they have to
Speaker 2: start having some results here and they have to start
Speaker 2: winning some games. So if you're girod Mayo, you don't
Speaker 2: have all this leash to carry DeMarcus Covington because he's
Speaker 2: a guy you liked with Bill and he's your guy
Speaker 2: and you kind of game up together and this that
Speaker 2: and the other thing. If he's not getting the job done,
Speaker 2: then you got to move on because your job's on
Speaker 2: the line too. And I look at them philosophically defensively,
Speaker 2: and I do think they need to answer that difficult
Speaker 2: question going into next offseason and have this conversation between
Speaker 2: Gerard and Elliott Wolfe specifically of you know, how do
Speaker 2: we want to build this defense? And you might have
Speaker 2: to be a little bit more systemic, like it might
Speaker 2: not be an amoeba game plan defense where everything changes
Speaker 2: constantly week to week, and these guys are hybrids and
Speaker 2: this guy's adjuster as they like to used to call
Speaker 2: Jelani Tavai, you know, like you have to be You
Speaker 2: might have to have, you know, like some of these
Speaker 2: other coaches and these other trees, you know, the Fangio Tree,
Speaker 2: the Seattle three guys, like that's just the system and
Speaker 2: they just run it. They'll have their little game plan
Speaker 2: wrinkles here and there, but they have their types of players,
Speaker 2: they have their system and they stick to that and
Speaker 2: they just try to get really really good and really
Speaker 2: really good personnel for what they want to do defensively
Speaker 2: instead of just being the Belichick defense, Like, well Bill's
Speaker 2: not here, anymore. So you're not the Belichick defense anymore.
Speaker 1: And that means maybe redefining players. So while you're watching
Speaker 1: LSU Harold Perkins linebacker.
Speaker 2: Of course, gotta gotta make it watch the draft, gotta
Speaker 2: make it about the draw it all right. A couple
Speaker 2: of more things that I just got to get off
Speaker 2: my chest is I'm sorry for you know, the abbreviated
Speaker 2: show here today. So we were running out of time.
Speaker 2: So I'm just gonna stick with this game from Sunday
Speaker 2: against Miami for the most part, and maybe we'll throw
Speaker 2: some ups and downs in there. Yeah you have you
Speaker 2: can hear that. But I have one more thing I
Speaker 2: want to get off my chest. So the last thing,
Speaker 2: just because you know, I already took down their entire
Speaker 2: you know, hot system an answer to pressure, because that
Speaker 2: that Miami took it down, so I didn't do it first, right.
Speaker 2: The other thing that really has irked me all season long,
Speaker 2: and I feel like a broken record talking about this,
Speaker 2: their play action concepts do not work, and their play
Speaker 2: action game it does not marry this. The run actions
Speaker 2: do not marry to the routes. Okay, so I'll give
Speaker 2: you an example. They ran a play action play from pistol,
Speaker 2: which I was there. We go. This is what I've
Speaker 2: been waiting to see. They pulled the guard from pistol
Speaker 2: and they get the linebackers to bite. They get the
Speaker 2: linebackers up into the line of scrimmage, and then they
Speaker 2: run two routes on the outside off of that run.
Speaker 2: So think about it this way. When you run that
Speaker 2: guard pole right, you're trying to get the linebackers up
Speaker 2: vacate the middle. So you're trying to vacate the middle
Speaker 2: of the field. They don't run a single route into
Speaker 2: the middle of the field. Nothing Brittain, no crosser, no seam,
Speaker 2: no post, no slant, no nothing. So Miami runs the
Speaker 2: exact same concept two in the pistol, pull the guard
Speaker 2: and they hit John Newsmith on a little shallow crosser
Speaker 2: going across the middle. And you just see that juxtaposition
Speaker 2: of like what it looks like when it's designed correctly
Speaker 2: and what it looks like when the Patriots run it.
Speaker 2: And the Patriots are running it with an out and
Speaker 2: a nine stop outside the numbers, Like, I, how does that?
Speaker 2: You're trying to you're trying to displace linebackers and then
Speaker 2: you're throwing at corners right, Like that just doesn't make
Speaker 2: any sense. And Drake May you know, hits the top
Speaker 2: of his drop and is just like where am I
Speaker 2: supposed to go with this football?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: Like the corners, they don't have any run pass conflict,
Speaker 2: so they're looking at they're just covering their guys, right,
Speaker 2: there's no poll, there's no conflict in the defense.
Speaker 1: So the past the play action pass game just has
Speaker 1: not married up all season long, and it feels like
Speaker 1: they're just leaving yard on the field because of that,
Speaker 1: and it just.
Speaker 2: Doesn't make much sense. Like how many times did we
Speaker 2: see I talk about this every week, and he's gonna
Speaker 2: be in here at some point this afternoon, so I'll
Speaker 2: bring him up. How many times did we see pull
Speaker 2: the guard, play action pass, gronk up the seam? Like
Speaker 2: that was a Patriots staple for a decade, Right, how
Speaker 2: many times do we see that in this offense? Never? Never,
Speaker 2: because they don't run those types of concepts. They have
Speaker 2: two tight ends that are capable receivers, like, they have
Speaker 2: two tight ends that have been good.
Speaker 1: First time in a while, Like this is one of
Speaker 1: the best Patriots. This is probably the best Patriots tight
Speaker 1: end year since Gronk retired.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just that piece of it is really has
Speaker 2: infuriated me to no end. And the last thing just
Speaker 2: to go on the defense and make this just the
Speaker 2: whole you know, s Sandwich. I can talk special teams
Speaker 2: after you, and I'll let you finish with the special
Speaker 2: teams once again. They're playing Miami, who's probably I would
Speaker 2: say Miami is probably the fastest.
Speaker 1: Offense in the NFL.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, guess how many snaps and base defense the
Speaker 2: Patriots played in this game.
Speaker 1: Probably around I'm gonna guess around forty percent.
Speaker 2: Yeah, twenty five snaps in based defense.
Speaker 1: Out of what like sixty plays.
Speaker 2: Yeah, against Miami.
Speaker 1: Yeah, against these receivers, against old friend Johnny Smith, who,
Speaker 1: for all of his faults with the Patriots is an athletic,
Speaker 1: you know, explosive tight end. I think we're kind of
Speaker 1: learning what went wrong between the Patriots and John new Smith.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they they keep rolling based defense out there,
Speaker 2: and that goes back to me to like this philosophy
Speaker 2: thing that you know, every time we've asked the Marcus
Speaker 2: Comington about this, they want to stop the run like
Speaker 2: it's a phil philistophigs, which they did do to stop
Speaker 2: the run. It was the one thing they did well
Speaker 2: in this game two point seven yards per carry foram. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that they stopped to run, But you can stop to
Speaker 2: run all day long. If your linebackers can't cover, then
Speaker 2: they're gonna just get you in base defense and they're
Speaker 2: just gonna throw the ball into your base da.
Speaker 1: It goes back to what we were just talkingalking about.
Speaker 1: If this is what you want your identity to be,
Speaker 1: you need smaller, more athletic linebackers. Yeah, like fit like smaller.
Speaker 1: When I say smaller, that sounds counter intuitive to stopping
Speaker 1: the run. I guess the better way to phrase it'd be,
Speaker 1: if this one you want your identity to be, We're
Speaker 1: gonna play a lot of bass, so we're stout up front.
Speaker 1: You can't run on us. Then you need quicker linebackers
Speaker 1: because teams are gonna try to throw at that look,
Speaker 1: and you need linebackers that can hold up in coverage.
Speaker 1: So the linebackers that can hold up in coverage are
Speaker 1: usually smaller. So you need guys that are overly physical
Speaker 1: and play above their size. So maybe that's the new
Speaker 1: Patriots linebacker. Now what I just described is a very
Speaker 1: very very good play like, yeah, everybody, Oh yeah, this
Speaker 1: guy's really quick and he plays physically like I just
Speaker 1: you know, it's a great player. Those guys aren't easy
Speaker 1: to find, and it's probably as much a developmental thing
Speaker 1: is just drafting them. But if they want to play bass,
Speaker 1: like again, you need guys that can hold their own coverage.
Speaker 2: Okay, take us home with special teams.
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, this was not a great special teams game.
Speaker 1: They set up Joey Sli for a forty five yard
Speaker 1: field goal. He jinks that you had a chank ish
Speaker 1: from Bryce Beringer after they watched another end of half situation.
Speaker 1: And I still don't know what happened on that first
Speaker 1: punt where Malik Washington it's not a fair catch. He's
Speaker 1: just telling people to get away and schoolers like standing
Speaker 1: right next to him. It doesn't tackle him. Yeah yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: just no massive f ups. But there were enough hiccups
Speaker 1: that had stood out.
Speaker 2: So basically what we're saying is that this entire game
Speaker 2: was let's just burn the tame.
Speaker 1: So I've been using the Jets game, the first Jets game,
Speaker 1: as a barometer for especially when it comes to the
Speaker 1: coaching staff, as like the worst game of the year,
Speaker 1: and I think they've passed that because the Jets game.
Speaker 1: Not to make excuses, but it was a short week
Speaker 1: and we talked about that. Yeah, it's gonna be tough
Speaker 1: with the coaching staff on their first ever short week.
Speaker 1: You had a full week against a team you're used
Speaker 1: to playing, you know what to expect. You aready played
Speaker 1: him once this year and to come out looking at unprepared.
Speaker 1: Rod Meyos talked about a lack of focus, which Tom
Speaker 1: he goes back to preparation. There's no excuse for it.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm gonna rattle off my ups and downs because
Speaker 2: you didn't do them, so we can just.
Speaker 1: I mean, I know what they are written down.
Speaker 2: So, uh my number I did one offense in one
Speaker 2: defense because I wasn't giving them three for ups. Okay,
Speaker 2: My number one up in this game on offense was
Speaker 2: Mike on Winnu. I thought he was the only offensive
Speaker 2: lineman that that had a good game in this game. Really,
Speaker 2: But I mean, Ben Brown was fine, but they didn't
Speaker 2: challenge him much. But I had Mike on Wnu.
Speaker 1: With a hurry.
Speaker 2: He did a call for a hold. That was his
Speaker 2: one blemish I would say in this game. But he
Speaker 2: had four standout run blocks. Like early on they actually
Speaker 2: had some run game success. They just couldn't run the
Speaker 2: ball because of the score and on when it was
Speaker 2: moving people and it was doing some really standout work
Speaker 2: in the run game. I thought last week was better.
Speaker 2: This week was better again. So now that he's settled
Speaker 2: back in at right guard, I think we're starting to
Speaker 2: to go on a little bit of an upward trajectory
Speaker 2: with big Mic, which is good to see.
Speaker 1: I'll throw Ramondra Stevenson in there is an up Like
Speaker 1: you said, they didn't run a ton, but he wasn't
Speaker 1: running this way. He wasn't running this physically coming off
Speaker 1: that foot injury. In the last two games, I think
Speaker 1: he's gotten much back, much more in a form. He's
Speaker 1: looking like the guy he looked like in September.
Speaker 2: You so my number one up for the defense. My
Speaker 2: only up for the defense, Anthony Jennings. They're One good
Speaker 2: thing that they did in this game was stop the
Speaker 2: run on either side of the football. I had him
Speaker 2: for three stuffs in this game. Set the edge against
Speaker 2: the team that wants to get to the edge in
Speaker 2: the run game. Did a really nice job. Can't block
Speaker 2: him with a tight end in the run game. They
Speaker 2: tried to do that a couple times. It did not
Speaker 2: go well for Miami. So even though he's another one
Speaker 2: of these guys like we were talking about earlier, like
Speaker 2: he's a role specific player. You don't want him on
Speaker 2: the field on third down if you have a really
Speaker 2: good pass rush. But in his role first and second
Speaker 2: down defense, he's been.
Speaker 1: Very good and among the best in the league at that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'll go Christian Barmore. I kind of talked about it before.
Speaker 1: Just having the sack, getting back to that point, I
Speaker 1: think is an incredible accomplishment by him, by the medical
Speaker 1: staff here, and you know, again I wish it. It
Speaker 1: actually kind of came to a big ish moment in
Speaker 1: the game because they get that stop that's at the
Speaker 1: start of the half, and it's like, all right, you're
Speaker 1: only down three scores, can you get a quick touchdown?
Speaker 1: Didn't play out that way, but good for him forgetting
Speaker 1: the sack. There are a couple of other times where he
Speaker 1: sort of popped, like starting to win. He talked last
Speaker 1: week after the game back needing to get back into
Speaker 1: football shape, which takes a couple of weeks. I thought
Speaker 1: he looked just like physically athletically, there was a big
Speaker 1: jump from last week to this week, which is encouraging
Speaker 1: because you know he's that much closer to getting back.
Speaker 1: I don't think he's at one hundred percent right now.
Speaker 1: I would expect him to be a one hundred percent,
Speaker 1: but I think I don't know if you agree. I
Speaker 1: think that there was a noticeable jump from last week
Speaker 1: to this week.
Speaker 2: Maybe a little bit in terms of his motor and
Speaker 2: like his activity. I still don't see like the explosiveness
Speaker 2: and power that we're used to seeing with Christian Barmore,
Speaker 2: Like we're used to seeing Christian Barmore snap reaction right
Speaker 2: into guys and just denting them. But it looked last week.
Speaker 1: I guess like after each snap it looked like he'd
Speaker 1: been on the field for forty and this week it
Speaker 1: felt like a motor is a good way to put it.
Speaker 1: Like snap to snap there was he was more competitive.
Speaker 2: Okay, to the downs, that's all you get for ups. Yeah,
Speaker 2: to the downs. Obviously, Kyle Duger was was number one.
Speaker 2: We've already gone over that. Number two for me was
Speaker 2: I really couldn't like I couldn't talk. I could have
Speaker 2: abandoned this a whole list.
Speaker 1: Sorry to go back. Christian zalz deserves. I mean, he
Speaker 1: was really good.
Speaker 2: He was really good. He was good.
Speaker 1: He remember last year, Remember last year we had we
Speaker 1: kind of just took Barmore out of ups and downs
Speaker 1: because he was just every week. I think Christian Zalez
Speaker 1: is just like we're putting him in the Yeah, he
Speaker 1: was really good.
Speaker 2: You know, they obviously threw away from him, and teams
Speaker 2: are just gonna continue to do that.
Speaker 1: And why would you Why would you.
Speaker 2: Test Christian Gonzales when you could just test a linebacker
Speaker 2: right exactly safety on this Patriots defense. So Kyle Dugger
Speaker 2: was number one down. Number two down was the mantre
Speaker 2: Jacobs Vederien Lowe and Michael Jordan.
Speaker 1: You're ready for these two numbers.
Speaker 2: The three of those Patriots offensive lineman allowed five sacks
Speaker 2: and sixteen quarterback pressures in this game combined sixteen one
Speaker 2: six between three guys on the offensive line. All three
Speaker 2: of them struggled bigly in this game with different things,
Speaker 2: and so I put all three of them together on
Speaker 2: the downs list.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would have had the tackles. I guess you
Speaker 1: want to throw Jordan in there too. But that was
Speaker 1: as bad tackle play as you're going to see, is
Speaker 1: that right up there? I mean, we'll all remember that
Speaker 1: Eagles practice, right, that's kind of what we saw at
Speaker 1: the Eagles practice. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I didn't even include the nine penalties on the offensive
Speaker 2: line too. I probably the penalties probably could.
Speaker 1: Have and how about it, And it wasn't on the
Speaker 1: offensive line, an offensive off sides or offensive neutral zone
Speaker 1: in fraction. Yeah, Like that's when you know, like and
Speaker 1: that's on coaching again, but that's when you know you're
Speaker 1: just not ready to play.
Speaker 2: Okay, really quickly because we got we got a rail here. Yeah,
Speaker 2: number three down for me this one. I don't feel
Speaker 2: like we're not talking about enough. Kishon Boody ran, that's
Speaker 2: a good one. Ran thirty four routes in this game
Speaker 2: and caught one pass for six yards.
Speaker 1: He has fallen off the last couple of weeks. It
Speaker 1: was nice to see him get going. And I'm not
Speaker 1: saying he can't get back to it. But this was
Speaker 1: his big problem going back to when he got here
Speaker 1: last year. In his first training camp consistency. He would
Speaker 1: flash for windows and then he would disappear for windows.
Speaker 1: Now he had about as long six stay and success
Speaker 1: as we've seen from him, but we're starting to see
Speaker 1: him fade back the other way and you see the
Speaker 1: impact on the offense. Drake May has had some of
Speaker 1: his lowest average depth to target.
Speaker 2: They don't. They don't have an X receiver like they don't.
Speaker 1: We got to go down the field.
Speaker 2: He's literally their starting X receiver and they get no
Speaker 2: production out of that spot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that might be tie. I know we've has
Speaker 1: not like a broken record with so it might be
Speaker 1: time to give Chavon Baker more of a look. I
Speaker 1: don't think that's gonna happen, but it might be time.
Speaker 2: All right, So that's gonna do it for this week's
Speaker 2: show and next week on Thursday of next week, back
Speaker 2: to normal time, the full two hours, and I got
Speaker 2: some homework to do.
Speaker 1: I know you're excited, so these tweet at it. He
Speaker 1: doesn't think Ursery is worth watching for just the first
Speaker 1: round discussion. It's a fifth guy. I'm asking you to
Speaker 1: watch a fifth guy. You watch him against Penn State,
Speaker 1: and you also get to watch a little ailing there.
Speaker 2: I have. I can't spend my entire bye week watching film.
Speaker 2: I gotta take a little bit of a break. I
Speaker 2: could give you a list of ten guys one guy
Speaker 2: some time off during the bye week, so I am
Speaker 2: going to watch a handful of guys. I've already started
Speaker 2: Will Campbell today, who was just terrific. By the way,
Speaker 2: we don't have time to go unpack it, but this
Speaker 2: was the take from the beginning of the show with
Speaker 2: that guy is just excellent. Like if his arms are
Speaker 2: thirty three inches plus, I'm running the car up, I'm
Speaker 2: running the Dane card up. That guy was phenomenal, phenomenal player.
Speaker 1: Campbell, Banks, Ersery, McMillan, Hunter.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So next Thursday, since we don't have a game
Speaker 2: to talk about that they're going to be playing in
Speaker 2: that week, we will discuss my preliminary list, my wish
Speaker 2: list for the Patriots in the first round of the
Speaker 2: NFL Draft. Love it, love it. So we'll see you
Speaker 2: guys then. Signing off Alex bart Evan Lazarre, Happy Thanksgiving everybody,
Speaker 2: and we'll see you guys next week. Thank you for
Speaker 2: downloading this podcast, Subscribe on Apple, Google Play, and everywhere
Speaker 2: else you listen. Like the show, please rate and review us.
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