1 00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: Happy Saturday. We talked very briefly about segregated schools in 2 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 1: South Texas in our episode on Hobi to Edar, and 3 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 1: we have a previous episode that gets into more detail 4 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: on that. It is on Mendes versus Westminster. This court 5 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:21,120 Speaker 1: case took place in California, not Texas, and also a 6 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: little later than hob Ta Addar's lifetime, but these same 7 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:29,479 Speaker 1: patterns of segregation and racism were in place all throughout 8 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:32,520 Speaker 1: a lot of the Southwestern United States, including in South 9 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: Texas when hob T Edar was living. In this episode, 10 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 1: we mentioned that one day there might be an episode 11 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 1: on Brown versus Board, and now there are two. The 12 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 1: Road to Brown Versus Board came out initially on February 13 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 1: twenty third, twenty fifteen, and The Aftermath of Brown Versus 14 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: Board was released on February twenty fifth, twenty fifteen. There 15 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 1: is also a reference to the possibility of a future 16 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: episode on the mass incarceration of Japanese people and Japanese 17 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: in Bad Americans during World War Two, and there are 18 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:06,960 Speaker 1: also two episodes on that. Those came out on February 19 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:14,840 Speaker 1: thirteenth and February fifteenth, twenty seventeen. So enjoy Welcome to 20 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:24,919 Speaker 1: Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartRadio. Hello, 21 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracy B. Wilson. Now 22 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 1: I'm Holly Frye. So if you've listened to the podcast 23 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 1: for very long, you know I've lived in the South 24 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:36,760 Speaker 1: my whole life. Yep, right, And even though the Supreme 25 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:40,559 Speaker 1: Court struck down segregation in America in nineteen fifty two 26 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 1: with the decision on Brown versus the Tapeak A Board 27 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:46,679 Speaker 1: of Education, most of my K through twelve education was 28 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 1: actually heavily influenced by the legacy of segregation and racism. 29 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 1: Mine too. Yeah. I went to public schools in a 30 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 1: system that had to bust children to different places to 31 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: try to maintain the racial balance and schools. I think 32 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: until I was in tenth grade, we had one family 33 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 1: that was not white attending our school. Yeah. Yeah, there 34 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 1: was nowhere there's no one to bus in. Yeah, it 35 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:18,919 Speaker 1: was kind of a pretty homogenized community. Yeah, our school 36 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 1: system really, Like, I lived in a part of the 37 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: county that had some predominantly African American neighborhoods and some 38 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: predominantly white neighborhoods, and depending on how the other parts 39 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 1: of the school districts were were trending. That's where boundary 40 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 1: lines would move a lot. So sometimes I would be 41 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 1: on a bus that was like driving past to predominant 42 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:46,640 Speaker 1: neighborhoods of one race or another, or on a bus 43 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: that was picking up all of those kids. It sort 44 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 1: of depended. So that was really heavily in my consciousness, 45 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 1: and the idea of segregation as a subject that related 46 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 1: to Caucasian children and African American children like that is 47 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 1: how my experience of race and segregation has been. Yeah, 48 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 1: and that's one of the reasons that I've really thought before, 49 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 1: and it's on the list somewhere about doing an episode 50 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 1: about Brown versus the tepeak a Board of Education. I 51 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 1: kind of I'm really interested in who those people were 52 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 1: and how that all played out. We may really still 53 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: do that, but that also does get a lot of 54 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 1: airtime in most history classes. That's, you know, yeah, more 55 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: than other racial relations issues that get a little more 56 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 1: pushed to the sign most people have heard of. I 57 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 1: know some things about Brown versus Board. Yeah, I think 58 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 1: I did not know about the case we're going to 59 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 1: talk about at all today. I didn't either. I certainly 60 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 1: never heard about it growing up. Yeah, and where I 61 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 1: grew up now has a much broader spectrum of people 62 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 1: who live in the area, but it was really primarily 63 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: about white children and African American children. This was really 64 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 1: not the case in for example, the American Southwest, where 65 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 1: Mexican children were segregated away from white children, and the 66 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 1: case that changed that in the state of California was 67 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: Mendes versus Westminster, which really went on to pave the 68 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 1: way for the much more well known Brown versus Board. 69 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:22,160 Speaker 1: So that's what we're going to talk about today. Yeah, 70 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 1: and a note on language. At the time, everybody was 71 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 1: pretty much using the word Mexican to apply to people, 72 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: whether they were actually from Mexico or had Mexican heritage. 73 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:39,119 Speaker 1: So today we have much more nuanced classifications for people, 74 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:41,159 Speaker 1: but a lot of the language at the time just 75 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: used Mexican as this blanket term for everyone. So we 76 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 1: were going to talk about Mexican and Mexican American, We're 77 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:49,159 Speaker 1: going to use lots of different words, but that doesn't 78 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: quite reflect what people were using at the time in 79 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 1: terms of language. Yeah, So for fully the groundwork, Yeah, 80 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: when the Mexican American War ended in eighteen forty eight, 81 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:04,719 Speaker 1: the US gained territory from Mexico, where Mexicans were already living, 82 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:07,279 Speaker 1: and the people that were affected by this had a choice. 83 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: They could relocate to the territory Mexico had retained, or 84 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:15,599 Speaker 1: they could stay in the United States. And Mexicans still 85 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 1: in the United States a year after this all went 86 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:22,359 Speaker 1: down would then be considered American citizens. Right. What was 87 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: supposed to happen was that Mexicans who stayed in United 88 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:30,359 Speaker 1: States territory would gain all the rights of citizenship upon 89 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 1: being there for a year. What really happened was that 90 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 1: discriminatory laws and social norms went into effect pretty much 91 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 1: immediately or built on laws that were already there. But 92 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:43,679 Speaker 1: even so, people moved from Mexico to the United States 93 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: for a range of political and economic reasons. There were 94 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 1: a lot of things going on in Mexico that caused that, 95 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: including many of them were fleeing the Mexican Revolution which 96 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 1: started in nineteen ten, and until nineteen twenty four, there 97 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: weren't any laws limiting Mexicans from entering the United States, 98 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: so a different climate in terms of immigration than there 99 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 1: is now. Right. There were also some big incentives for 100 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 1: moving to the American side of the border. The United 101 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 1: States started restricting immigration from several Asian countries starting in 102 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 1: the late eighteen eighties, and then during and after World 103 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 1: War One, the United States also started restricting immigration from 104 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:31,840 Speaker 1: parts of Europe, and without an immigrant population coming into 105 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 1: the country, this led to a labor shortage in some 106 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: parts of the United States, so in response, employers started 107 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 1: to try to recruit more labor from Mexico and Puerto Rico. 108 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:46,720 Speaker 1: This was especially true in California as the agriculture industry 109 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 1: really started to boom, and of course, after years of 110 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 1: legal back and forth, residents of Puerto Rico became American 111 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 1: citizens in nineteen seventeen. Though, because they physically resembled Mexicans 112 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 1: and the spoke Spanish, Puerto Ricans were often lumped in 113 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 1: with Mexicans in the eyes of many Americans. Yeah, people 114 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 1: would use the word Mexican to apply to both Mexicans 115 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 1: and Puerto Ricans, which is not accurate at all in 116 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 1: the least, but because of you know, some similarities that 117 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 1: people would sort of apply the same standard to two 118 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 1: completely different gifts of people. Because of these and other factors, 119 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 1: the Mexican and Mexican American population in California tripled between 120 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 1: nineteen twenty and nineteen thirty, and that trend actually shifted 121 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: a bit with the coming of the Great Depression. So 122 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 1: when the Hoover administration launched an effort to depoor illegal aliens, 123 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 1: that changed things. It led to both the deportation of 124 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 1: Mexicans who were in the United States illegally and American 125 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 1: citizens of Mexican descent. This effort increased tensions, of course, 126 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 1: between Mexican American and Anglo American communities right so there 127 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 1: were people with Mexican heritage who were citizens of the 128 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 1: United States who chose to go back to Mexico during 129 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 1: this time and people who were deported back to Mexico 130 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 1: during this time. Although many people came to the United 131 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 1: States from Mexico because of the promise of work, a 132 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 1: lot of times this did not actually work out well. 133 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 1: It was really exhausting work under very poor conditions for 134 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 1: very low pay, and so unemployment quickly became a big 135 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: problem in Mexican American communities along with us the spread 136 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 1: of illnesses because of living conditions and overcrowding, so predominantly 137 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: Mexican neighborhoods tended to be very poor in this part 138 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 1: of the United States, but they were also very close 139 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 1: knit with very strong support networks within the community. So 140 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 1: even though people did not have a lot of money 141 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 1: or a lot of food or a lot of health care, 142 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: they really were trying to support each other within their community. 143 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: So at the same time, looking at it in the 144 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 1: context of schools, school funding in California was tied to 145 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: race as early as eighteen fifty five, and that's when 146 00:08:57,040 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 1: school budgets were based on the number of white students 147 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:04,080 Speaker 1: and only white students in the county. In short order, however, 148 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: students who were not white were restricted from attending white 149 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:11,079 Speaker 1: schools entirely. Right, only the white students counted, is the 150 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 1: bottom line is, That's the bottom line. And so since 151 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: only white students counted, only white students were allowed to 152 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 1: go to the better schools that were getting most of 153 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 1: the money. In eighteen ninety six, the United States Supreme 154 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:25,559 Speaker 1: Court ruled that having separate facilities for people of different 155 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:29,560 Speaker 1: races was constitutional as long as those facilities were equal, 156 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:33,559 Speaker 1: and that was the famous Plus versus Ferguson decision. So 157 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:37,079 Speaker 1: segregated classrooms were really that it became the norm for 158 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 1: many races and ethnicities in many part of the parts 159 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 1: of the United States, and apart from the financial considerations 160 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:49,319 Speaker 1: that were involved in school budgets, school boards were genuinely 161 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: worried about the health and language skills of Mexican American students. 162 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 1: Since so many Mexicans were living in poverty and in 163 00:09:56,679 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 1: generally poor living conditions. Some children were you know, arriving 164 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: at school in the morning hungry or without having bathed, 165 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 1: and illnesses, including serious ones like tuberculosis, would spread rapidly 166 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:12,319 Speaker 1: because of the overcrowding and a lack of access to 167 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 1: medical care. Unfortunately, at least some administrators and board members 168 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:21,559 Speaker 1: associated these traits not with poverty but with being Mexicans, 169 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 1: so they attributed it to a racial issue instead of 170 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 1: just the fact that they were living, in some cases, 171 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: really really rough conditions. Right. There were also a couple 172 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 1: of real factors that did work against many Mexican American 173 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: students when it came to keeping up with the rest 174 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 1: of the class. Because a lot of Mexican workers were 175 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 1: holding seasonal migrant jobs, Mexican American children were often pulled 176 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 1: out of school for months at a time as their 177 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 1: parents moved to follow work this would cause students to 178 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:54,959 Speaker 1: fall behind and have to repeat grades, and some Mexican 179 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 1: American families primarily spoke Spanish, which school board members thought 180 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: would make it hard for the children to keep up 181 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 1: in an English language classroom. This today seems very silly, 182 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:09,079 Speaker 1: considering how many people will put their children on waiting 183 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 1: lists for second language immersion schools. Yes. Uh, But at 184 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:16,720 Speaker 1: the time, the solution, and we put that in air 185 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 1: quotes to all of these problems was to educate Mexican 186 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:24,439 Speaker 1: students separately. And although these facil facilities were supposed to 187 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:27,680 Speaker 1: be equal, in reality, they really did tend to be 188 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:32,719 Speaker 1: inferior in pretty much every respect, from the way the 189 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:35,439 Speaker 1: spaces that they were learning and were constructed, to how 190 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 1: much the teachers and administrators involved in their education were paid. Yeah, 191 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 1: that was basically the case in separate but supposedly equal 192 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:48,599 Speaker 1: facilities across the board, regarding pretty much every race and ethnicity. 193 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:52,600 Speaker 1: If there was a separate facility for a minority population 194 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: in general, that facility was inferior. So this was not 195 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 1: just related to California or or Mexican American students. On 196 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 1: top of this inferiority in the buildings and the teacher pay, 197 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 1: and all of those sorts of things. The curriculum in 198 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 1: classrooms for Mexican American children was often geared to do 199 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: two things, to assimilate Mexican children into American culture and 200 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:22,680 Speaker 1: to prepare them for a life of labor. In some schools, 201 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 1: boys learned trade skills and gardening, while girls learned sewing 202 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 1: and homemaking instead of having any academic part of their 203 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 1: subject work. That kind of makes my blood boil. I know, 204 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:37,560 Speaker 1: as with many episodes, this is one where just the 205 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:42,959 Speaker 1: layers of offensiveness pile on the deeper we get into something. Yeah, 206 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: it's hard to stay sort of neutral with the information 207 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 1: at hand because it just it makes my blood boil. Right. 208 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 1: By nineteen thirteen, Mexican children were being taught in different 209 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 1: classrooms in the first segregated school in Orange County, California, 210 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 1: which is where the Mendes family live of started in 211 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:07,560 Speaker 1: nineteen nineteen. Occasionally, gifted Mexican children could potentially go to 212 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 1: a white school if they agreed to be inspected and 213 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 1: visited by white school administrators. Yeah, so, if a Mexican 214 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 1: American child was particularly stellar in academic ability, that child 215 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:23,959 Speaker 1: might be able to go to a white school if 216 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: their family agreed to like home visits from school administrators. 217 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 1: And I wonder how they would identify students that could 218 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 1: academically really kind of succeeding in gardening, Yeah, when there's 219 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 1: no academic parts of their curriculum. Yeah, that's a great question. 220 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 1: By nineteen thirty, there were fifteen Mexican only schools in 221 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: Orange County, and between eighty and ninety percent of schools 222 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:52,720 Speaker 1: in the South and the Southwest segregated Mexican children. And 223 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 1: there were also other court cases along these lines that 224 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 1: were happening before the case that we're discussing today, including 225 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 1: Alvarez versus Lemon Grove School District and Salvadiera versus Del 226 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 1: Rio Independent School District. But these cases, which found in 227 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 1: favor of Mexican American families, either didn't have an effect 228 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 1: outside the school system in question for legal reasons, or 229 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 1: they got overturned during an appeals process. Right, And as 230 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 1: sort of a side note, schools were not the only 231 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 1: places where Mexicans are being segregated. They were also served 232 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: last in restaurants after white families had been served. There 233 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 1: were racially restricted covenants that allowed Mexicans only to buy 234 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 1: property in certain neighborhoods. In some public pools, Mexicans could 235 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 1: only swim one day a week, and the next day 236 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:52,359 Speaker 1: the pool would be drained and cleaned. Gonzalo and Philicitas 237 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 1: Mendes were the parents in Mendes Versus Westminster. Gonzalo was 238 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:00,600 Speaker 1: originally from Chihuahua, Mexico. In a long way, his mother 239 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: and four siblings, he emigrated to Westminster, California in nineteen nineteen. 240 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 1: He actually attended Westminster, Maine School, the same school his 241 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 1: children were eventually barred from attending when he was a child, 242 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:16,640 Speaker 1: although in his late elementary years he was briefly sent 243 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 1: to a segregated school. He and his classmates, who were 244 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 1: fluent in English, were eventually transferred back to Westminster, Maine, 245 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 1: although he had to drop out to work as an 246 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 1: orange picker because his family needed the money. He was 247 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 1: naturalized as an American citizen when he was thirty years old. 248 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 1: Philicitas was from Puerto Rico. She and her family had 249 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 1: moved to Arizona from Puerto Rico in nineteen twenty six 250 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 1: and they stayed there for about six months. The working 251 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 1: condition for Puerto Ricans there where they were living were terrible, 252 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 1: and Philicito's family had participated in protests against these terrible 253 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 1: working conditions and the fact that their pay was dramatically 254 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: less from what they had been promised before they emigrated. 255 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 1: Philicitos's family then moved to cal California, to a predominantly 256 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 1: Mexican neighborhood, where she later met Gonzalo and the pair 257 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:09,239 Speaker 1: were married in nineteen thirty five. They opened a cantina 258 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 1: in the Mexican barrio of Santa Anna, and their business 259 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 1: was successful, and eventually they saved enough money to buy 260 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 1: a house. They had three children who are extremely important 261 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 1: to this story, Silvia, Gonzalo Junior, and Jerome. In nineteen 262 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: forty three, when the children were all still under the 263 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 1: age of ten, their banker got in touch with them 264 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 1: about an asparagus farm in Westminster. It was owned by 265 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 1: the Minimtsu family, a Japanese family who was being relocated 266 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 1: to an internment camp, which a whole other topic we 267 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 1: could discuss. I know that great length the mini Metsus 268 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 1: knew that they were likely to lose the farm if 269 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 1: they couldn't find a tenant, and they offered to lease 270 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: it to the Mendes family to protect it under the 271 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 1: until their internment was over. Yeah. Their hope was that 272 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 1: if they had people who were living there and working 273 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 1: it for them, that eventually their internment would be over 274 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 1: and they would be able to return to their property. Unfortunately, 275 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 1: I do not have knowledge of how that ultimately turned out. 276 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 1: Topics for a future Topics for Yeah, I think we 277 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 1: do need a future podcast. I need to first look 278 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 1: in the archive and see if there already is one. 279 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:19,920 Speaker 1: A future podcast on internment of Japanese people during World 280 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 1: War Two. So the Mendes family agreed to lease the farm. 281 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:26,719 Speaker 1: They closed their cafe, rented out their home, and moved 282 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:30,640 Speaker 1: to live on the asparagus farm. Gonzalo's sister Sally died 283 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:34,120 Speaker 1: and her husband, Frank Vadari, went with them. Frank had 284 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 1: experience running a farm, so he was a logical person 285 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:40,639 Speaker 1: yes to be involved in this endeavor. And this was 286 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 1: just it was a really successful enterprise. It spanned forty acres, 287 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 1: it employed up to thirty people, and meanwhile Gonzalo also 288 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:52,359 Speaker 1: managed another farm in the area, and the whole family 289 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 1: really continued to prosper when they moved to the farm. 290 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 1: They moved from the barrio to a neighborhood in the 291 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 1: Westminster School District where there was only one other Mexican 292 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 1: American family. In the fall of nineteen forty four, Solidad 293 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:09,880 Speaker 1: took the children to enroll in Westminster Main School, also 294 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 1: known as the Seventeenth Street School. So Solidad was of 295 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 1: Mexican American heritage also, but she had lighter skin and 296 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 1: she had a last name that didn't sound Mexican. So 297 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 1: the teacher who was doing the enrollment told her that 298 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:27,119 Speaker 1: her children could go to Westminster Main School, but that 299 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:29,919 Speaker 1: the Mendez children would have to go to the Mexican school. 300 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 1: They had to go to Hoover Elementary instead of Westminster 301 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 1: Main School, which, as we discussed earlier, was generally inferior. 302 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 1: The building was in poor condition, there was no playground, 303 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 1: The textbooks were a varied assortment and a collection of 304 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:48,439 Speaker 1: hand me downs from white schools in the area, so 305 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:52,680 Speaker 1: probably out of date. Lunch was eaten outside on picnic tables, 306 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 1: and since part of the school property was adjacent to 307 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:59,639 Speaker 1: a cow pasture, there were flies everywhere and the manure 308 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 1: smell permeated the school area right So Solidad said that 309 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,679 Speaker 1: if the Mendez children could not attend Westminster Maine, her 310 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:09,200 Speaker 1: children would not be going there either, and she left. 311 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: When Gonzalo and Felicitas heard about this, they were both 312 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: understandably outraged. They were both citizens of the United States 313 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 1: and they saw no reason why their children should not 314 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 1: attend the school in the district where they lived. So 315 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:24,879 Speaker 1: they went to talk to the principal and they were 316 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:28,200 Speaker 1: told that no, the children had to attend the Mexican school. 317 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 1: Then they went to both the Westminster and Orange County 318 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 1: school boards and they just kept getting the same answer 319 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 1: from everyone. Yeah, everyone was telling them they have to 320 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:41,360 Speaker 1: go to the Mexican school. Gonzalo contacted lawyer David C. Marcus, 321 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 1: who had recently successfully argued another California civil rights case 322 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 1: involving whether Mexicans could be banned from public swimming pools. 323 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:53,439 Speaker 1: That answer was no, they could not. They discovered that 324 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:57,280 Speaker 1: Mexican and Mexican American children were routinely being segregated in 325 00:19:57,359 --> 00:20:01,880 Speaker 1: Orange County. This wasn't actually required or allowed by law, 326 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 1: though the Education Code actually read quote, the governing board 327 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 1: of any school district may establish separate schools for Indian children, 328 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: accepting children of Indians who are wards. The United States 329 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 1: Government and children of all other Indians who are descendants 330 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 1: of the original American Indians of the United States, and 331 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 1: for children of Chinese, Japanese or Mongolian parentage. Yes, so 332 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 1: there were actual segregation laws on the books, but some 333 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:34,080 Speaker 1: of them mention Mexican American children, right. So this puts 334 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 1: them into kind of an interesting position as far as 335 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:40,360 Speaker 1: wanting to fight what was going on, because there wasn't 336 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 1: actually a law to try to repeal. Yeah, so first 337 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 1: they tried to get the support of other Mexican families 338 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 1: in the district to file a class action suit, but 339 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 1: many of the families they talked to actually didn't want 340 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 1: the school board to change its policy. The Mexican school 341 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,080 Speaker 1: that their children attended was right in the middle of 342 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 1: the barrio where they were living. It was extremely convenient, 343 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 1: so the parents liked that they had their children close by, 344 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: that they could walk their children to school in the morning, 345 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:10,640 Speaker 1: that children could come home at lunchtime. There were real 346 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:13,480 Speaker 1: practical reasons that people liked having their children in a 347 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:17,400 Speaker 1: school that was in their neighborhood, and so that made 348 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 1: it a little tricky for them to start to build 349 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:23,479 Speaker 1: a case and believing that they'd have better success if 350 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 1: they could prove that it wasn't just the Westminster school 351 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 1: district in question. Gonzalo and his attorney actually toured the 352 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:33,200 Speaker 1: area and they interviewed families and looked for other people 353 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 1: that would be willing to join the suit. So outside 354 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 1: of their area, they expanded to try to find some 355 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:41,560 Speaker 1: support and other people that would rally along with their 356 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 1: cause right and eventually four other families did join them, 357 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 1: the families of Lorenzo Ramirez, Frank Palomino, William Guzman, and 358 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 1: Tomasa Strada. Some of these families included veterans from World 359 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:58,120 Speaker 1: War Two. These are people who had just returned from 360 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 1: fighting for their country, specifically fighting Nazis for their country, 361 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 1: and they were really unwilling to accept treatment as second 362 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:09,399 Speaker 1: class citizens once they got back. And with their involvement, 363 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:14,879 Speaker 1: the defendants included four school districts, so Westminster, which the 364 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:18,959 Speaker 1: Mendes family had started this ground swell, in Santa Anna, 365 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 1: Garden Grove, and Elmadena which is Orange Yes. Meanwhile, Philisitas 366 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 1: and other mothers continued to pressure their school boards to 367 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:32,639 Speaker 1: try to change their decisions. Pilicitas also helped organize the 368 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 1: Associacion de Padres de Ninos Mexican americanos. I'm just gonna 369 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:40,440 Speaker 1: apologize for my pronunciation. I am not fluent in Spanish 370 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 1: to show support during the trial. All of this was 371 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:48,479 Speaker 1: extremely brave on a number of levels. The Mendes family 372 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 1: and the other families faced the possibility of racist retribution 373 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:55,399 Speaker 1: from the Anglo community and anger from people in the 374 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 1: Mexican American community who didn't want this suit to go forward. 375 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:04,399 Speaker 1: Also ran financial risks associated with the trial, and they 376 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 1: would be missing work to testify. And for this last part, 377 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 1: Gonzalo actually reimbursed people out of pocket. So it was 378 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:12,680 Speaker 1: a really important fight to them. They were willing to 379 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:15,639 Speaker 1: kind of literally put their money where their mouth was right. 380 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 1: So they filed a class action lawsuit in the Federal 381 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:22,160 Speaker 1: District Court of Los Angeles in March of nineteen forty five. 382 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 1: They chose to file this in federal court instead of 383 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,400 Speaker 1: state court because there was no state law being violated 384 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: that they could try to repeal. So, as we had 385 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 1: just discussed, there was no state law in California at 386 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:46,439 Speaker 1: the time requiring segregation that was based on race. It 387 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 1: was related to Mexican Americans. So the lawsuit's argument was 388 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 1: that in absence of a state law. Segregation violated the 389 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:58,240 Speaker 1: equal protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment and California state law. 390 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:03,399 Speaker 1: The ACLU and the National Lawyer's Guild also filed amicus briefs. Yes, 391 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,640 Speaker 1: and if you remember our Loving Versus Virginia episode, there's 392 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 1: the briefs that are from people not directly related to 393 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 1: the case. You have sort of expert legal advice to include. 394 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 1: The trial started on July fifth, nineteen forty five, and 395 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,879 Speaker 1: it lasted for two weeks. It was to be decided 396 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 1: by Judge Paul J. McCormick. The school board was to 397 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 1: be defended by Orange County Council Joel E. Ogle, but 398 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:29,680 Speaker 1: he wound up turning it mostly over to the deputy 399 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:34,920 Speaker 1: County Council, George F. Holden. The testimony for the plaintiffs 400 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:39,119 Speaker 1: included evidence of segregation in several school districts, evidence of 401 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 1: how the schools for Mexican children were inferior, and testimony 402 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:46,880 Speaker 1: for Mexican American children about how the segregation had affected them. 403 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 1: Parents and education experts also testified. Doctor Ralph Deals of 404 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 1: UCLA's anthropology department was an expert witness. He argued that 405 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 1: segregation set up white children as superior and Mexican children 406 00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 1: now inferior, and drew parallels to what was going on 407 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: in Nazi Germany. The school board's defense was bizarrely offensive 408 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,120 Speaker 1: to today's or so kind of be ready for that, right. 409 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:17,200 Speaker 1: James L. Kent, the superintendent of the Garden Grove School District, 410 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:21,960 Speaker 1: said Mexicans were inferior and had poor hygiene, in a 411 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 1: lower ability level and outlook than white children. He also 412 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:31,199 Speaker 1: said Mexican families had loose morals. Yes, it kind of 413 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,919 Speaker 1: was just making up some garbage. Yeah, does he I 414 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,200 Speaker 1: don't know, feared change, didn't like them. Yeah, Well, as 415 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 1: we talked about earlier, he kind of conflated problems associated 416 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 1: with poverty with problems that were innate to an ethnicity, correct, 417 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:53,240 Speaker 1: which I don't. Maybe it's because I am a little 418 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 1: idealistic sometimes I kind of think the better option would 419 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:00,960 Speaker 1: have been to address the problems of socialiated with poverty, 420 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:05,159 Speaker 1: rather than segregating the poor children into their own school 421 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:09,399 Speaker 1: you hippie, HI know, it's crazy. I too tend to 422 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:15,159 Speaker 1: be idealistic in that regard, and it's important to remember 423 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 1: that it was a different social climate, but it's hard 424 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:21,359 Speaker 1: not to kind of be a little judgmental of statements 425 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 1: like that. I just like it. Statements that say those 426 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 1: people are terrible for the following reasons. Yeah, we really 427 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,399 Speaker 1: need to keep them separate. Well, and the judge he 428 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 1: would sort of call them on it. He was like, so, 429 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,879 Speaker 1: if a white child has problems with hygiene and is 430 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,600 Speaker 1: having trouble keeping up, what do you do? And they're like, well, 431 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:39,479 Speaker 1: we talked to the parents and we maybe hold them 432 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:41,879 Speaker 1: back a year. He's like, so you don't just segregate 433 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,439 Speaker 1: them into somewhere else. So Frank A. Henderson, who was 434 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:49,480 Speaker 1: the superintendent of the Santa Ana School District, also acknowledged 435 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 1: that they were basically making school assignment decisions based on 436 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:58,360 Speaker 1: people's surnames and their skin color, which is ridiculous. Yeah. 437 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,600 Speaker 1: In terms of the legal aspects, the school boards tried 438 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 1: to build their defense around the idea that this was 439 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,600 Speaker 1: not a matter for a federal court since it was 440 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 1: a county and not a state or federal matter. Yeah, 441 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 1: it was not a very strong defense. It's a little 442 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:15,680 Speaker 1: flaily at that point, I think. Yeah, And so unsurprisingly, 443 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,879 Speaker 1: Judge Paul McCormick of the U. S. District Court Southern 444 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 1: District of California Central Division ruled that the segregation of 445 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 1: Mexican American students did violate the law. He also described 446 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:32,920 Speaker 1: segregation itself as inherently unequal, writing quote, A paramount requisite 447 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 1: in the American system of public education is social equality. 448 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:40,240 Speaker 1: It must be open to all children by unified school association, 449 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:44,360 Speaker 1: regardless of lineage. So then this takes a turn into 450 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,639 Speaker 1: the yet more offensive because the school boards appealed to 451 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:49,879 Speaker 1: the US Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit in 452 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: San Francisco. While the appeal was taking place, since they 453 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 1: had been told that what they were doing was illegal, 454 00:27:55,760 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: they all kind of handled their own integration efforts efforts 455 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,119 Speaker 1: separately by their own devices. In the case of the 456 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 1: Westminster District, grades one through four wound up going to Westminster, Maine, 457 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 1: and grades five through eight went to Hoover, with the 458 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,879 Speaker 1: Mexican American children and the Anglo children in the same school. 459 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:16,600 Speaker 1: But that meant that grades five through eight were in 460 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 1: the inferior ski school with the cow pastor and no 461 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 1: playground and no cafeteria. So nobody wins, right, it is 462 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 1: not good. The ACLU, the National Lawyers Guild, the Japanese 463 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:32,879 Speaker 1: American Citizens League, the American Jewish Congress, the NAACP, and 464 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:36,879 Speaker 1: the Attorney General of California all filed amicus briefs on 465 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 1: behalf of Mendes in the appeal, And we're not going 466 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,680 Speaker 1: to rehash the testimony because it was basically the same 467 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,960 Speaker 1: testimony over again with the school boards again trying to 468 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,280 Speaker 1: build this defense that this was just a county thing 469 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 1: and was not something that the federal court should be 470 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 1: messing with. The Ninth Circuit's decision, which came out in 471 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 1: nineteen forty seven, was unanimous. It upheld the lower court 472 00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,720 Speaker 1: ruling on the basis that it violated California law, not 473 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:04,680 Speaker 1: on passed Supreme Court precedent. Since California had no segregation 474 00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 1: law for Mexicans, earlier Supreme Court decisions didn't actually apply, 475 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 1: so it didn't apply the ruling more broadly to the 476 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 1: other races or ethnicities, right, They still kind of had 477 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:17,120 Speaker 1: a battle of their own to deal yes, So while 478 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 1: this did, this ruling did achieve what people were hoping 479 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 1: it would achieve as far as ending the segregation of 480 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 1: Mexican American children. It was a pretty narrow ruling. It 481 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 1: was based only on the fact that this didn't this 482 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 1: wasn't within California law, like it didn't expand that out 483 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 1: to the equal protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment at 484 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 1: this point, doing possibly the only thing they had done 485 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 1: right so far. The school boards elected not to appeal 486 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 1: to the Supreme Court, and this may be one reason 487 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,520 Speaker 1: why this case has become much less well known than 488 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:53,400 Speaker 1: Brown versus the Tapeak a Board of Education. And after 489 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 1: this ruling had finalized, and apart from overturning segregation of 490 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:04,480 Speaker 1: Mexican students in California, the Mendez versus Westminster case had 491 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,959 Speaker 1: other effects. Later on, It really put a spotlight on 492 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:12,800 Speaker 1: segregation in California. Governor Earl Warren, who later became Chief 493 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 1: Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, proposed to the state 494 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 1: legislature that California repeal all of its segregation laws in 495 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 1: nineteen forty six. He signed this bill into law in 496 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 1: nineteen forty seven. He went on to author the Supreme 497 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:32,000 Speaker 1: Court's opinion in Brown versus Board and in Loving versus Virginia, 498 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 1: which we talked about in earlier episodes of this podcast, 499 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,960 Speaker 1: along with many many other civil rights legislations. Yeah, the 500 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 1: war in court was in a lot of ways extremely 501 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 1: progressive when it came to rights and liberties. Yeah, they 502 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 1: really had an eye on achieving equality, I think. And 503 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 1: while it was not cited as a direct precedent in 504 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 1: Brown versus Board of Education, the NAACP did use Mendez 505 00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,480 Speaker 1: versus Westminster as a test case when trying to see 506 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:04,640 Speaker 1: how they might get Brown versus Board overturned. Earl Warren's 507 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,040 Speaker 1: ruling on Brown versus Board has a lot in common 508 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,240 Speaker 1: with McCormick's ruling in the Mendez case. Yeah, it was 509 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 1: clear that he had read and digested that written opinion thoroughly. 510 00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:20,200 Speaker 1: The NAACP's amicus brief was also written by Thurgood Marshall, 511 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 1: who argued Brown versus Board before the Supreme Court. Many 512 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,920 Speaker 1: of the challenges to segregation before this point had focused 513 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,520 Speaker 1: on the fact that facilities were separate, but they were 514 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 1: not equal. This was a case in which the entire 515 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 1: concept of separate but equal was thrown out and it succeeded. 516 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 1: This helped propel America towards actually desegregating schools. Yeah, while 517 00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 1: there were people who were working on integration before this point, 518 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 1: there was still a lot of focus on trying to 519 00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:53,120 Speaker 1: make the facilities be actually equal, and this really proved. 520 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:55,120 Speaker 1: It was sort of a proof of concept of hey, 521 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:58,920 Speaker 1: we can actually get these laws completely overturned instead of 522 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,440 Speaker 1: just focusing on getting the facilities to be on the 523 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 1: same level as one another. Gonzala Mendez died in nineteen 524 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 1: sixty four, and he was fifty one at the time. 525 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 1: Felisa Tas Mendez died in nineteen ninety eight. There are 526 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:17,040 Speaker 1: actually two California schools named after them. A commemorative stamp 527 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 1: came out in two thousand and seven for the seventieth 528 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:23,840 Speaker 1: anniversary of the ruling, and Celia became an activist. She 529 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,479 Speaker 1: was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom in twenty eleven 530 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:28,880 Speaker 1: at the age of seventy four. Yeah, she went on 531 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 1: to do just a lot of lecturing on the issues 532 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:37,440 Speaker 1: relating to Mexican American people in the United States and segregation, 533 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:41,520 Speaker 1: a lot of education of children on this case in particular, 534 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,480 Speaker 1: because it turns out that this even people who are 535 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:49,320 Speaker 1: living in that part of the country don't necessarily know 536 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,360 Speaker 1: that this ever existed because so much of the focus 537 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 1: about the civil rights movement is on African American children 538 00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 1: rather than children of other races who were also put 539 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:04,040 Speaker 1: into segregated schools. Yeah, and the school integration thing is 540 00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:06,880 Speaker 1: largely focused, as we've said on Brown view Board. Yeah, 541 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,480 Speaker 1: so this does kind of fall by the wayside. Yeah. 542 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:11,640 Speaker 1: And as a weird side note, I watched a lot 543 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 1: of videos for this. There are just there are a 544 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 1: lot of videos that have been recorded that are about 545 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 1: the case, and a lot of them had this weird 546 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:24,280 Speaker 1: undertone that really bothered me. That was like, well, everybody 547 00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 1: thought that Mexican children couldn't speak English, but the Mendez 548 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:32,400 Speaker 1: children could totally speak English, and I was like, so, 549 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 1: so that would have been okay if they didn't. It's 550 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 1: very strange. Yeah, I mean we talked about this a 551 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,080 Speaker 1: little bit yesterday when you were commenting on this, and 552 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,280 Speaker 1: like I said, I think the idea is that they 553 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:47,760 Speaker 1: were trying to build a case of how ridiculous it 554 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,400 Speaker 1: looked to try to keep these kids out of any school, 555 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:53,600 Speaker 1: but it ends up making it look like they were 556 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:56,480 Speaker 1: the exception in the Mexican American community, right, which is 557 00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 1: and the others still should maybe be segregated. It set 558 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:03,520 Speaker 1: up weird, Yeah, a very odd tone. And while the 559 00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 1: a Mendez family was definitely more affluent than a lot 560 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:10,360 Speaker 1: of other Mexican American families in the area. But that 561 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:15,360 Speaker 1: doesn't mean that all the prejudices about all of the 562 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:20,480 Speaker 1: other Mexican American people were correct, because that is not true. No, 563 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,719 Speaker 1: So yes, I am really glad that I got to 564 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:25,719 Speaker 1: learn about this case. It was not one that I 565 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:34,880 Speaker 1: was familiar with before. Now yeah, I said neither. Thanks 566 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:37,799 Speaker 1: so much for joining us on this Saturday. If you'd 567 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,280 Speaker 1: like to send us a note, our email addresses History 568 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:44,640 Speaker 1: Podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com, and you can subscribe to 569 00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:48,000 Speaker 1: the show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 570 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:49,680 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.