Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, Josh and Chuck here to remind you that
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Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's
Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry's here too, and this is Stuff you
Speaker 2: should Know about PCP.
Speaker 3: And yes, we're talking about the PCP. You think we're.
Speaker 1: Talking the one from the if you were a child
Speaker 1: of the seventies and eighties, where you heard that your
Speaker 1: friend's friend's cousin did it and they carve their face
Speaker 1: off with a butcher knife and then jumped off a
Speaker 1: building so they thought they could fly.
Speaker 2: Yes, as a matter of fact, that's exactly the PCP
Speaker 2: we're talking about, Yeah, which stands for By the way,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna attempt this chemical name.
Speaker 1: You're ready, This one's easy, no pressure.
Speaker 2: Okay, I don't know how to say the ones. So
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna that's I think it's kind of important
Speaker 2: chemically speaking. I think they didn't just put part of
Speaker 2: it in parentheses for nothing. But I'm just gonna call
Speaker 2: it one one fennel cyclo hexel, pepper dye and those
Speaker 2: in the number dye pipper dye, piper dye, probably piper dyne.
Speaker 2: I think it's those in the know who don't smoke PCP.
Speaker 2: But oh, I actually took out a syllable this time.
Speaker 1: Oh man, this is gold.
Speaker 2: So the people who study it call it fen cyclodine, okay,
Speaker 2: with a pH because it's fat.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And if you if you're wondering, like, oh, why
Speaker 1: do people even study this old street drug from the seventies,
Speaker 1: it's because it wasn't always that. It was kind of
Speaker 1: the precursor to the ketamine in a lot of ways,
Speaker 1: which we'll talk about here and there. And if you
Speaker 1: think people study ketamine the party drug, well that's true too,
Speaker 1: because both PCP and ketamine had legitimate uses and were
Speaker 1: created for legitimate uses like mini drugs, yeah, recreational drugs.
Speaker 2: The Germans gave us both heroin and PCP. I think
Speaker 2: in nineteen twenty six, German chemists created PCP. I'm not
Speaker 2: sure what they were creating it for. I think this
Speaker 2: is a time of experimentation in chemistry where you just
Speaker 2: put stuff together and saw what happened. Sure, So it
Speaker 2: sat on the shelf for almost thirty years before Park Davis,
Speaker 2: a pharmaceutical company from the United States which is now
Speaker 2: part of Pfizer. I believe they came along and they said, Hey,
Speaker 2: this would be a gangbuster's tranquilizer sedative something. Let's forget
Speaker 2: out what to do with this because I just smoke
Speaker 2: some out back and I feel like a million bucks.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I gotta tell you, we should use this stuff.
Speaker 2: So they looked at it as an anesthetic at first,
Speaker 2: and I think it first came to market in like
Speaker 2: the mid fifties, and by nineteen sixty five they had
Speaker 2: removed it.
Speaker 3: From the market.
Speaker 2: The reason they removed it from the market is one
Speaker 2: it showed very quickly it had a high potential for abuse,
Speaker 2: because the hippies in San Francisco started smoking it before
Speaker 2: there was even hippies in San Francisco. Yeah, and it
Speaker 2: had a slew of side effects that you just really
Speaker 2: don't want, which is one of the reasons why we'll
Speaker 2: say you probably shouldn't do PCP.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we should have led with that. Sure, Like what
Speaker 1: if someone heard the first what is this four minutes
Speaker 1: of the episode.
Speaker 3: It turned it out, they're like, I gotta go try PCP.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because Josh and Chuck said it exists, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: don't do PCP, everybody, you shouldn't do that. And this
Speaker 1: is not, you know, coming as a sort of satanic,
Speaker 1: panicky eighties you're gonna jump off a building because you
Speaker 1: think you can fly kind of thing. It's just not
Speaker 1: a drug you want to do. So, like you said,
Speaker 1: you know, uses, well, I don't think we've even said it. Yes,
Speaker 1: uses really dropped off over the years. It was a
Speaker 1: very much a bigger deal in the nineteen seventies and eighties.
Speaker 1: I think stats that the Grabster found for US saw
Speaker 1: that between seventy six and seventy seven, use among high
Speaker 1: school students doubled. In a nineteen seventy nine study, seven
Speaker 1: percent of high school seniors reported having used PCP in
Speaker 1: the last year. In twenty thirteen that was down to
Speaker 1: less than one percent, and then in twenty twenty. Though
Speaker 1: the stats are a little bit different. I think it
Speaker 1: went down to like point zero zero zero two percent
Speaker 1: of the country, not just high school students.
Speaker 3: So of adults.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like fifty two thousand people. Well, adults, it's just
Speaker 1: twelve and over.
Speaker 3: Hey, you're old enough to smoke PCP. You're old enough
Speaker 3: to be considered an adult.
Speaker 1: That's right. But you can't vote.
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter what age you are. If you smoke
Speaker 2: a lot of PCP, you probably shouldn't vote anyway.
Speaker 1: Right. Oh, I thought you're gonna say, then you've earned
Speaker 1: the right to vote.
Speaker 3: No, No, I think the opposite.
Speaker 1: Maybe.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: So all that to say, it used to be a pretty,
Speaker 1: you know, frequent recreation, recreational street drug, and it has
Speaker 1: really really gone out of fashion, in large part because
Speaker 1: ketamine is not the same exact thing, but it's it's
Speaker 1: largely the same thing, and that became I guess, the
Speaker 1: trendier drug to use.
Speaker 2: Yes, but it has remained in fashion in certain pockets,
Speaker 2: especially like deep in the inner cities of Washington, d C.
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, Kansas City, Okay.
Speaker 3: I believe it's a town in Connecticut, Hartford.
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's Hartford, but there's at least
Speaker 2: two towns in Connecticut that have interesting a lot of
Speaker 2: PCP use and they think I read this really great
Speaker 2: article and vice about why America is the only country
Speaker 2: in the world basically literally where people use PCP still
Speaker 2: or ever ever, but it's still as well. Ever, yeah,
Speaker 2: it never really made it out of America. It was
Speaker 2: written by Max Daley and sam Irravani. It's definitely worth
Speaker 2: a read. But they say, one of the reasons why
Speaker 2: it's so overlooked and one of the reasons why it's
Speaker 2: not that studied, and one of the reasons why you're
Speaker 2: just like, yeah, ketamine replace it is because the people
Speaker 2: who do use it tend to be marginalized. Unemployed, black
Speaker 2: inner city men ages mid twenties to mid fifties are
Speaker 2: typically the people who get busted for PCP. So it's
Speaker 2: kind of like this viewed as this drug that like
Speaker 2: a drug of inequality, I think.
Speaker 3: Is how they put it.
Speaker 2: And that'll come up late too, because some of the
Speaker 2: myths around it seem to be tied to the people
Speaker 2: who use it.
Speaker 1: Now, I'm not a very smart person, but if if
Speaker 1: there are like two towns or two cities in Connecticut
Speaker 1: that are known for PCP, still doesn't that just mean
Speaker 1: there's someone in two towns in Connecticut that are making PCP.
Speaker 2: So no, almost all of the PCP in the world,
Speaker 2: because it's almost all of the PCP in the United
Speaker 2: States are still controlled and made by black street gangs
Speaker 2: in LA, like crips, bloods.
Speaker 3: It's weird.
Speaker 1: Then, how does it get to these two weird specific
Speaker 1: places in Connecticut right now?
Speaker 2: Those cities that still do and have always smoked PCP
Speaker 2: it's always been around, are cities that have like clearly
Speaker 2: some way or another, very deep ties to those same
Speaker 2: LA street gangs. Because it's really hard to distribute PC,
Speaker 2: really hard, So for it to show up in Connecticut
Speaker 2: from LA, there's some there's like somebody's cousin lives there
Speaker 2: and is controlling the PCP market.
Speaker 3: They're getting it to actually from.
Speaker 2: Somebody in LA who knows a chemist who will go
Speaker 2: out into the desert and make hm PCP all day long.
Speaker 1: Oh oh, that makes sense because I just I don't know.
Speaker 1: It seems like there would be like a Walter Whitton
Speaker 1: Connecticut or something, but they're still out in the desert.
Speaker 3: Yes, supposedly it's all coming out from LA.
Speaker 1: All right. Well, in seventy eight is when the United
Speaker 1: States government said, all right, this thing is officially a
Speaker 1: scheduled to controlled substance, which means, you know a lot
Speaker 1: of things we've talked about the different drug schedules, but
Speaker 1: it means that its prevalence of abuse is a big deal,
Speaker 1: and that it can be addictive, and you know, it's
Speaker 1: ranked right up there with cocaine and crystal meth and
Speaker 1: stuff like that, which I think we've covered all those before.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and in fact, it shares a precursor drug, pyrad dene,
Speaker 2: with crystal meth. But it's not that, No, it is not,
Speaker 2: and it actually does have anesthetic effects. Like one of
Speaker 2: the side effects of in ingesting PCP one way or
Speaker 2: another is like, not only do you not really feel pain,
Speaker 2: you don't experience pain because you're disassociated from your body.
Speaker 2: It's a disassociative, hypnotic sedative essentially, and one of the
Speaker 2: reasons why, sure, you have to add the essentially though
Speaker 2: comma essentially sure, but one of the reasons why PCP
Speaker 2: and ketamine were first brought to market was because they
Speaker 2: produce sedative effects, like you don't really know what's going
Speaker 2: on after a certain dose. You're not really with it.
Speaker 2: You actually can fall into a coma with your eyes open,
Speaker 2: but it doesn't slow your heart rate or pulse or.
Speaker 3: Anything like that.
Speaker 2: So it really made a Ketamine in particular, found a
Speaker 2: great use as a battlefield sedative for surgery in like Vietnam,
Speaker 2: where somebody might have lost a lot of blood. They
Speaker 2: couldn't hand a traditional sedative or anesthesia, so they gave
Speaker 2: them ketamine and it did the same trick without dropping
Speaker 2: their blood pressure even further.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and and what's good for the battlefield is good
Speaker 1: for the rave. But it makes total sense, you know
Speaker 1: because if you were like, as far as the rave
Speaker 1: culture goes or went, I don't think is that still
Speaker 1: a thing? Even I it's got to be somewhere.
Speaker 3: It isn't.
Speaker 2: It's it's coming back soon because the nineties are so
Speaker 2: hot right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, somebody's out there raven with their big they're not
Speaker 1: bell bottoms. Even did this have a name? No, it
Speaker 1: was just like the pants that had like like two
Speaker 1: foot what's it called there at the bottom with what's
Speaker 1: the bottom of your pants, like called the cuff cuff.
Speaker 3: The bottom of those big pants.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they didn't, but the whole leg was like that. Essentially,
Speaker 2: it was just the waste that was a generally normal size.
Speaker 2: The legs were huge. Believe me, buddy, I had more
Speaker 2: than one pair of those.
Speaker 1: I thought they flared. Anything to see you in a
Speaker 1: pair of those.
Speaker 2: I had some cool ones too, but I also had
Speaker 2: some uncool ones.
Speaker 1: We used to when we lived in these warehouses in
Speaker 1: the West end of Atlanta and ninety nine two thousand
Speaker 1: would and this is that was a big rave loft
Speaker 1: over there, Like people would drive from different states to
Speaker 1: go to these things, thousands of kids, and we used
Speaker 1: to just sit around and play pavement and laugh and
Speaker 1: make fun of them in those pants.
Speaker 3: And they were doing ketamine, ketamine, ketamine, and you're.
Speaker 1: Like, like those losers probably, But where I was going
Speaker 1: with all this was I guess it makes sense why
Speaker 1: the PCP and ketamine and that kind of thing would
Speaker 1: have been because you know, you feel funky, but it
Speaker 1: doesn't like slow you down, essentially.
Speaker 2: No, And in fact, it can actually increase your heart
Speaker 2: rate and do all sorts of other weird stuff to you.
Speaker 3: And what's really odd about.
Speaker 2: It is that it has a lot of paradoxical effects
Speaker 2: on humans. I say, we talk a little bit about
Speaker 2: how it impacts the brain, and I think that it'll
Speaker 2: become apparent.
Speaker 1: What do you think, Yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 2: So it's it's considered a N methyl d aspirate antagonist.
Speaker 2: NMDA antagonists and NMDA receptors are really important as far
Speaker 2: as things like memory formation, neuroplasticity, very important stuff. But
Speaker 2: what they they're triggered by glutamate. And what PCP does
Speaker 2: is it prevents those ndm A receptors from accepting glutamate
Speaker 2: and hence firing. And because there's either more glutamate or
Speaker 2: less glutamate in your body, I think less glutamate floating
Speaker 2: around is what it is. A Whole host of other
Speaker 2: stuff happens, like dopamine and nourep and ephyrin get released,
Speaker 2: those two and serotonin their reuptake is inhibited, so they're
Speaker 2: floating around in your your brain even longer.
Speaker 1: So that's all the good feely stuff, right.
Speaker 2: Your opioid receptors are stimulated as a result, your nicotinic receptors,
Speaker 2: which control things like your neural muscular activity rapid neural
Speaker 2: transmission essentially, and then your muscarinic activity, which includes like breathing,
Speaker 2: your pupil's salivation. All these things are going haywire. And
Speaker 2: then what else is weird about it is that your
Speaker 2: central nervous system can be both depressed and excited by
Speaker 2: this same drug. This is how this is how nuts
Speaker 2: and effect it has on your brain, so that you
Speaker 2: can cycle between like utter sedation to the point of catatonia,
Speaker 2: and between that and serious agitation where like you see
Speaker 2: you know, videos of people who are being arrested and
Speaker 2: they're not like hitting the ground even though they're getting
Speaker 2: sprayed in the face of bear spray because they're so
Speaker 2: on like a rant. So it has like all these
Speaker 2: really crazy effects, but it all comes down to the
Speaker 2: fact that it affects your ability to receive glue tomate
Speaker 2: in your NMDA receptors.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we'll talk a bit more about that sort
Speaker 1: of reputation as like a superhuman strength, like you know,
Speaker 1: takes twelve cops to subdue someone on PCP thing. And
Speaker 1: a little bit what were those people on those videos
Speaker 1: that you sent me? Okay, so Josh sent me some
Speaker 1: videos and people I guess the next day or whatever
Speaker 1: on ketamine or I assume it was the next.
Speaker 3: I think it was hours later. It was like hours afterwards.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And they were almost all of them when
Speaker 1: they were walking like down the sidewalk or whatever, had
Speaker 1: this backward lean as if they were walking up like
Speaker 1: a very very steep hill, but it was on solid ground.
Speaker 1: And then the one guy if it was a very
Speaker 1: slight incline on the sidewalk and he would take a
Speaker 1: few steps up and then take a few back, and yeah,
Speaker 1: he had. They were all having a hard time, and
Speaker 1: it was just I don't know, it's just sad to
Speaker 1: see someone in that sort of a stupor around in
Speaker 1: the daylight when people are going to work and stuff.
Speaker 2: Right, Well, the thing that really kind of makes it
Speaker 2: worth watching is they're with it enough to know that
Speaker 2: they shouldn't be walking weird in public, and they need
Speaker 2: to tell they suspect that they might be.
Speaker 1: So it's kind of funny in a way, but it's
Speaker 1: really not when you really think about it.
Speaker 3: You know, well, watching.
Speaker 2: Them play it off or try to play it off
Speaker 2: and just fail utterly at it, that's that's objectively funny
Speaker 2: to see it.
Speaker 1: Well, And it doesn't help that they did the Staying
Speaker 1: Alive Beg's song cut to it. We used to there
Speaker 1: was my friend in college used to call not on drugs,
Speaker 1: but if you were drunk and you were trying to
Speaker 1: like play it off like you were super sober and
Speaker 1: walking around. He called that sugarfooting, like you're just you're
Speaker 1: not just like, oh, I'm just gonna walk down the
Speaker 1: street thinking left foot, right foot, everything's fine, exactly. You
Speaker 1: called it sugarfoot in, which always thought was kind funny.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a term for that, a medical term for it,
Speaker 2: choreo something. I'm sure I'll turn it up at some point,
Speaker 2: But basically, it's unwanted muscle movement. So you're trying to
Speaker 2: just walk, but you're also doing like you're also just
Speaker 2: just like you're dancing, says, even though you don't mean
Speaker 2: to and you're trying really hard not to.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: So one of the that's one of the side effects
Speaker 2: of it, is these unwanted muscle movements. And then also
Speaker 2: for that reason, in San Francisco, when it first started
Speaker 2: being abused on the street, the hippies called it wobble weed. Oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: which makes a lot more sense now that you you
Speaker 2: know a little bit more about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And we'll talk about the association with marijuana too, uh,
Speaker 1: in a little bit. But why don't we take a break? Yeah, yep,
Speaker 1: all right, we'll put on staying alive and we'll stumble
Speaker 1: up the sidewalk and we'll you right back, all right.
Speaker 1: So we talked a little bit about what PCP does
Speaker 1: to you and sort of in the brain, and also
Speaker 1: how you can sugar foot up the street. But it's
Speaker 1: not like, uh, even though it was used as an anesthetic,
Speaker 1: that that association with sleepiness isn't accurate.
Speaker 3: Right, No, it's not.
Speaker 2: And like I said, you can go catatonic with your
Speaker 2: eyes open, but you're still able to move around and
Speaker 2: do things that you just shouldn't be doing. Like I
Speaker 2: saw that people will frequently, like try to get off
Speaker 2: a stretcher even though they're catatonic.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And the reason why it's it's a dissociate and you
Speaker 2: feel not connected to your body. Your senses are coming
Speaker 2: in hot and weird and not making any.
Speaker 3: Sense to you. You know.
Speaker 2: It removes ego boundaries, so your feeling of self and
Speaker 2: the distinction between you and other people and the rest
Speaker 2: of the world around you and the supernatural has kind
Speaker 2: of blurred or fallen away.
Speaker 1: Right. I've heard dreamlike from well, to be honest, I've
Speaker 1: known people have done this and they've said dream like.
Speaker 3: I can I could imagine that.
Speaker 2: And then also, one of the other things I saw
Speaker 2: that I thought it was just fascinating is that it's
Speaker 2: it makes it difficult to tell whether an event has
Speaker 2: already happened in the past, is going to happen in
Speaker 2: the future, or is happening.
Speaker 1: Now right, the whole time time jump thing, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3: Isn't that nuts?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: And then of course, because it's a hypnotic sedative that
Speaker 2: affects your your NMDA receptors that are involved in memory formation,
Speaker 2: you you frequently black out even though you're walking around
Speaker 2: doing stuff and even interacting, you probably aren't going to.
Speaker 3: Remember most of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, big memory impacts. And the stuff comes on very
Speaker 1: quickly too, which is one of the I think the historically,
Speaker 1: like the most addictive kind of recreational street drugs are
Speaker 1: ones that are really fast acting, and PCP is definitely
Speaker 1: one of those. What I didn't see, or maybe I
Speaker 1: just overlooked it is how long it lasts.
Speaker 2: It can last for twenty four hours.
Speaker 1: Right, it's a long lasting deal. Okay, that's right. I
Speaker 1: did read that because I remember, like when we did
Speaker 1: the crack episode. I think I always thought that crack
Speaker 1: was some long term thing, but was shocked to learn
Speaker 1: it was just like a super quick high.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think this can be, but it depends
Speaker 2: on how.
Speaker 1: You take it, right, Should we talk about that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's different ways you can take it, So let's
Speaker 2: talk about that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it used to be in the earlier days it
Speaker 1: was like a liquid PCP a lot of times that
Speaker 1: you would take orally, but very quickly. The most recreational
Speaker 1: use users used it like it came in like a
Speaker 1: crystalline powder, and they would typically smoke it or snort
Speaker 1: it like a heroine or a cocaine, I guess, And
Speaker 1: that became sort of the main way aside from and
Speaker 1: again I said earlier we were going to talk about
Speaker 1: the Marijuana Association, that was dipping a marijuana joint or
Speaker 1: just a regular cigarette, and liquid PCP has you can
Speaker 1: do that with a lot of drugs are called wet drugs,
Speaker 1: and it's it's a thing. And there was some confusion
Speaker 1: about the names because I heard I knew what SHRM
Speaker 1: was because I'd heard that in a movie from Tuarantina movie,
Speaker 1: which one was that really yeah movie. I think it
Speaker 1: was the one he wrote, only was it true romance
Speaker 1: or maybe it was pulp fiction. It was Sam Jackson,
Speaker 1: and he wasn't introu or.
Speaker 3: No, I don't believe he was scared anyway.
Speaker 1: You smoke enough sherms something something something was the line.
Speaker 1: And that's the first time I had heard that word.
Speaker 1: But that's a cigarette that was dipped in embalming chemicals
Speaker 1: and I think kind of like a prison drug a
Speaker 1: lot of times, because that was something that you could
Speaker 1: get apparently easier than you know, regular hard drugs. And
Speaker 1: I think for a time that was like PCP was
Speaker 1: sometimes mixed with embalming fluid. Sometimes the just names were
Speaker 1: used interchangeably. There was a lot of confusion in the
Speaker 1: media about embalming fluid and PCP. Yeah, and I think,
Speaker 1: I mean, I read a lot about it today, and
Speaker 1: where I landed was sometimes it might have been mixed
Speaker 1: with PCP, but sometimes people were smoking inbalming fluid as well.
Speaker 2: So what I found from my research is that so
Speaker 2: this is a big thing in like the mid nineties
Speaker 2: to the early two thousands. Oh really yeah, And that
Speaker 2: if you were smoking embalming fluid and you got high.
Speaker 3: It's because there was PCP in that embalming fluid. Oh,
Speaker 3: so it was mixed, and that it.
Speaker 2: Was yes, and that it was a that I read
Speaker 2: from somebody, a medical examiner, who said, like, there's there.
Speaker 2: You don't get high at all from embalming fluid. He's like,
Speaker 2: I used to mix it myself, and if anybody would
Speaker 2: have gotten high from it, I've spent more time around
Speaker 2: it than most people. Never got even the slightest buzz.
Speaker 2: So it's the PCP that's making you highcha. And it
Speaker 2: might not even be embalming fluid in the first place,
Speaker 2: because PCP has kind of a very distinct chemically smell
Speaker 2: and taste, and it you could easily pass it off
Speaker 2: as embalming fluid to somebody who'd never smoked PCP before.
Speaker 2: The thing that I kind of landed on was that
Speaker 2: it was mistaken either among like recovery people or the
Speaker 2: GA or something. The slang term for PCP embalming fluid
Speaker 2: came to be accepted as Oh, teenagers are now smoking
Speaker 2: embalming fluid. By the L seven's, it ended up in
Speaker 2: the and it became self perpetuating. I think some kind
Speaker 2: of particularly low intelligent drug dealers were like, oh, we
Speaker 2: can sell embalming fluid. We're gonna start robbing funeral homes
Speaker 2: and then actually started selling embalming fluid and it was
Speaker 2: all just a comedy of errors.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes sense of why it's so hard to
Speaker 1: separate fact from fiction online today, because it's all over
Speaker 1: the place once you start looking into that thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's not really any drug ever. Crack used to
Speaker 2: come close in the eighties. People were hysterical about crack,
Speaker 2: Crack baby super Predators. Yeah, it was really bad. But
Speaker 2: as like for duration of like the hysterical moral panic
Speaker 2: over it, PCP has every other drug beat by a
Speaker 2: mile because not only is it like urban legend, but
Speaker 2: that urban legend becomes fact because the media reports it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: drug abuse organizations say the same thing, the cops say
Speaker 2: the same thing. Everybody's saying these same things, like if
Speaker 2: you'll have superhuman strength, for example, that is not true.
Speaker 2: You don't get superhuman strength. We'll talk a little more
Speaker 2: about that. I don't want to get ahead of ourselves,
Speaker 2: but it's exactly what you said, is exactly right. There's
Speaker 2: so much disinformation on PCPs you just end up having
Speaker 2: to guess here or there about what's true and what's not.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, we can go ahead and talk about it.
Speaker 1: Some that was, you know, I invoked the Satanic panic.
Speaker 1: It was sort of around those same times when we
Speaker 1: were kids in the late seventies where I mean, I
Speaker 1: remember PCP was like the scariest sounding thing on the planet,
Speaker 1: and it was sort of made out to be like,
Speaker 1: if you do PCP, there's a very good chance that
Speaker 1: you'll end up dead, and not from like overdosing on PCP,
Speaker 1: but because you've done something crazy, like you know, try
Speaker 1: to bake yourself in an oven or something because you
Speaker 1: thought you were a cake. And every school, every region,
Speaker 1: every town had some story or set of stories that
Speaker 1: were passed around urban legend style. Well, there were urban
Speaker 1: legends about some friend of a friend or some friend's
Speaker 1: cousin who who they know for sure did this and
Speaker 1: they fought fifteen cops and ed used an example of
Speaker 1: some kid who at a hockey game fought like twenty
Speaker 1: cops or something. And it's just so funny how those
Speaker 1: things proliferate. And we're not saying like in PCP, it
Speaker 1: was just great. There was no problem with it, but
Speaker 1: it wasn't what it was made out to be, which
Speaker 1: was this a lot of times an excuse for cops
Speaker 1: to beat down a person because all they have to
Speaker 1: do afterward to say, we suspected they were on PCP
Speaker 1: and they had crazy look in their eyes and they
Speaker 1: were super strong. Ye, I mean Rodney King was supposedly
Speaker 1: on PCP. You heard some cops yelling out the word
Speaker 1: dust at the beginning of that video. Yeah, he's dusted,
Speaker 1: And that happens and happened all the time. I don't
Speaker 1: think it's quite as common now, but it was a
Speaker 1: very prominent thing back then.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then cops speak, he's dusted, is raising the
Speaker 2: alarm that this person is going to try to kill
Speaker 2: all of us and possibly could so go ahead and
Speaker 2: use excessive force, And it was used as a defense
Speaker 2: in the Rodney King trial. He didn't have any PCP
Speaker 2: in his system, by the way, but that fear, just
Speaker 2: the very fact that cops are scared of superhuman strength
Speaker 2: brought on by PCP is one of the things that
Speaker 2: got those officers off the hook in the Rodney King trial,
Speaker 2: the Rodney King beating trial. But just the fact that
Speaker 2: PCP gives people superhuman strength. Yeah, he didn't know he
Speaker 2: wasn't on PCP. Ergo, they're not really guilty of using
Speaker 2: excessive force because he could have been on PCP. And
Speaker 2: if you strip away that argument, like these police officers
Speaker 2: were let off for beating a man in a circle, Yeah,
Speaker 2: because they were afraid he was on PCP, because PCP
Speaker 2: gives you superhuman strength. Even though that doesn't actually happen.
Speaker 2: It's just a total myth that's perpetuated still today.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's still around. I think you found this
Speaker 1: meta analysis from a legal paper that really did some
Speaker 1: scouring and found two cases where PCP was the sole cause,
Speaker 1: the sole cause of like a violent behavior or violent episode.
Speaker 3: Two out of like hundreds.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're not saying that, you know, people do crazy,
Speaker 1: all kinds of crazy things and all kinds of drugs,
Speaker 1: So we're not saying no one's ever been violent because
Speaker 1: and had PCP in their system. But the key is
Speaker 1: did PCP trigger and cause that thing to happen? And
Speaker 1: the evidence just says that that's just not the case. No.
Speaker 2: From what I saw, it amplifies your personality twenty times,
Speaker 2: I think, is what one person put it.
Speaker 1: If you want to beat up people anyway aggressive anyway,
Speaker 1: then it might.
Speaker 2: Then yes, that might be a problem, but you're not
Speaker 2: going to have superhuman strength. Potentially, the one the one
Speaker 2: explanation for that, because I did see videos of a
Speaker 2: dude on PCP who was getting bear sprayed in the
Speaker 2: face multiple times and just kind of wiped his eyes
Speaker 2: and kept walking around.
Speaker 1: Was stay alive wing No, I had it on.
Speaker 2: Mute, so as possible, it was, but he kept getting
Speaker 2: tased repeatedly and nothing. He didn't have superhuman strength. He
Speaker 2: was just disassociated from his senses, so he wasn't experiencing pain.
Speaker 2: So you will not move away from noxious stimulized stimuli
Speaker 2: like bear spray or tasers because it's not coming through.
Speaker 1: And finally, not superhuman strength.
Speaker 3: That is not superhuman strength.
Speaker 2: And there's also a really really like widespread idea that
Speaker 2: at least one person on PCP is snapped perfectly good.
Speaker 3: Handcuffs because of those superhuman strength.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just probably not the case that that ever
Speaker 2: actually happened. So there's a lot of myths around this.
Speaker 2: And again it's like you kind of hinted at like
Speaker 2: we're not defending PCP. We're not saying like guys. PCP's
Speaker 2: got such a bad rap. There's a lot of really
Speaker 2: bad stuff that can come out of ingestion PCP. It's
Speaker 2: just that superhuman strength is not one of them. That's
Speaker 2: just a myth. And it has been used. It's been
Speaker 2: argued to target those marginalized communities who use PCP and used.
Speaker 2: It's been used to justify excessive force. So much so
Speaker 2: I saw that the non or no less than lethal
Speaker 2: weapon industry, tasers, bear spray, all that stuff that did
Speaker 2: not exist until the cops started being criticized for using
Speaker 2: excessive force and they had the the decision to either
Speaker 2: use their police baton, their nightstick or their gun. That's
Speaker 2: all they had, and they they when they encountered PCP users,
Speaker 2: they needed another option.
Speaker 3: So that's that's why we have that.
Speaker 2: Yes, that is why to subdue PCP users. That's why
Speaker 2: that whole industry exists.
Speaker 3: That's why it began.
Speaker 1: Is that why I have bear spray hanging up at
Speaker 1: my camp on the wall.
Speaker 2: That's right, because of PCP users in Washington, d C.
Speaker 2: In anatomy.
Speaker 1: I don't want to spray a bear, even I don't.
Speaker 3: I think you're okay if a bear's coming at you.
Speaker 3: You can. You can spray that bear.
Speaker 1: I mean I would, and that's why it's there. I
Speaker 1: just said I don't want to.
Speaker 4: Like.
Speaker 1: My first line of defense at at camp is I
Speaker 1: have an air horn. Good so annoying my friends, drive
Speaker 1: away the bear, drive away my friends on Sunday morning. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then the bear spray would be the last resort.
Speaker 3: I'll tell you what you do. Chuck this way. Do
Speaker 3: you got a bear coming at you? You lay down?
Speaker 3: What is it prostrate when you're face down?
Speaker 1: I don't remember.
Speaker 3: Let's say it is. Okay, yeah, I think it is.
Speaker 2: I don't remember. But you're laying face down, pretending you're dead.
Speaker 2: Wait till the bear comes over and kind of moves
Speaker 2: you with its paw and you roll over and spray
Speaker 2: it in the face with the bear spray. Kind of
Speaker 2: like that whole trope where you roll somebody over and
Speaker 2: they're holding like a bunch of grenades with the pins
Speaker 2: pulled out, same.
Speaker 3: Thing, but with bear spray.
Speaker 1: That's a great idea.
Speaker 3: I think so too. I think we should go try it.
Speaker 1: That Elizabeth Banks should have made PCP Bear instead of
Speaker 1: Cocaine Bear. I know we disagree about that, Yes, we do.
Speaker 1: But what we can agree is that the story about
Speaker 1: the crew of the Titanic movie, not the boat itself,
Speaker 1: but when James Cameron was making Titanic. This sounds so
Speaker 1: much like an urban legend, but it's actually true that
Speaker 1: at some I think it was another crew member that part.
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I'm pretty sure it was another
Speaker 1: crew member.
Speaker 2: The mystery still like they've never fully.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, they dosed some chowder with PCP and dosed
Speaker 1: everyone who ate that chowder, which was a lot or
Speaker 1: most of the crew, and it really happened, and I
Speaker 1: think different stories come out of that.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: I think some people had a really hard time. Some
Speaker 1: people probably loved it.
Speaker 2: Yeah they apparently there was a congo line and wheelchair
Speaker 2: racing in the er at the local hospital. But then
Speaker 2: other people, yeah, we're not having a good time at all.
Speaker 2: Jinks Cameron said that one of the crew members, I
Speaker 2: think he said a PA stabbed him in the face
Speaker 2: of a pen and oh wow, he said.
Speaker 3: He was just.
Speaker 2: Laughing, laughing, laughing about it, like like James Cameron was
Speaker 2: laughing about having been stabbed in the face of a pen.
Speaker 1: The PA said this is for Avatar that hasn't even
Speaker 1: happened yet.
Speaker 2: Right, But this is I think the the biggest star
Speaker 2: that got it was Bill Paxton because they were shooting
Speaker 2: those current day shots and like Nova Scotia or something.
Speaker 1: Boy, I hope that that old lady Old Rose didn't happen.
Speaker 3: Was at a restaurant.
Speaker 1: She did not, Man, could you imagine?
Speaker 2: No, that would be really bad. We don't want our
Speaker 2: senior friends taking PCP, especially not accidentally.
Speaker 4: Her acting might have improved, you never know. I thought
Speaker 4: she did so, so she wouldn't very good in my opinion.
Speaker 4: So you want to take a break, Sure, let's take
Speaker 4: a break, and then we'll come back and talk about
Speaker 4: some problems with getting high on PCP, Chuck. One of
Speaker 4: the things about PCP that makes it so vexing, yeah,
Speaker 4: is that the symptoms that it can produce are really undesirable,
Speaker 4: and an overdose threshold is not very high at all.
Speaker 4: It basically dances along the top end of a normal dose.
Speaker 4: So a normal dose is between five and ten milligrams.
Speaker 4: I saw as low as one, yeah, but after.
Speaker 2: About ten milligrams, or maybe even at ten milligrams, you
Speaker 2: might start exhibiting the exact same symptoms of somebody in
Speaker 2: the throes of a schizophrenic episode.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we'll talk about that in a second. But
Speaker 1: part of the problem there, I mean, that's a problem period.
Speaker 1: But part of the problem is the dosage, especially if
Speaker 1: you're smoking fry or churm or something like that. Is
Speaker 1: I'm sure the dosage isn't that accurate when you're dipping
Speaker 1: a joint or a cigarette and liquid, it's probably hard
Speaker 1: to tell how much is on there.
Speaker 2: No, but I read that you can control it much
Speaker 2: more easily. You just take it hit and wait a
Speaker 2: couple minutes, and then sure if you if you start
Speaker 2: to come down, you take another hit. And I saw
Speaker 2: it like an old cop say, you can you know
Speaker 2: if you smoke it, you know with intent, I guess
Speaker 2: you can stay high for twenty four hours just from
Speaker 2: one one shurm.
Speaker 1: Stick, right, Which means if you're if this is something
Speaker 1: that you know to do and recreationally do often, then
Speaker 1: you probably know what you're doing. But if someone's like, here,
Speaker 1: try this thing and then ed, you know, use the
Speaker 1: example of of you know, someone who like finds the
Speaker 1: joint on the street or something, and I'm sure that's happened.
Speaker 1: But I kind of lump that in with that that
Speaker 1: eighties hysteria of like, you know, you might come across
Speaker 1: a cigarette that's been laced with PCP that you don't
Speaker 1: know about, or or buy a marijuana joints laced with PCP.
Speaker 1: I'm sure that really didn't happen very.
Speaker 2: Much there, So, No, it does not happen very much.
Speaker 2: Those stories are, they abound, but they're also really really rare.
Speaker 2: But there are stories of people who have done horrific
Speaker 2: things on PCP. Sure the qualifier is though, that they
Speaker 2: already had pre existing mental disorders, and the PCP does
Speaker 2: not do any favors for you if you have a
Speaker 2: pre existing mental condition, even if it hasn't come out
Speaker 2: yet or emerged yet, it'll make it emerge. And they
Speaker 2: argue that it's possible that even if you didn't have
Speaker 2: one that was going to come out eventually, PCP could conceivably,
Speaker 2: especially after prolonged use, essentially infect you with schizophrenia.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the one I've seen more often than anything else.
Speaker 1: Is it will exacerbate something like that, but it can
Speaker 1: also Why cann't we think of the word install.
Speaker 3: And still delivered, still produced.
Speaker 1: Induce, produce produce schizophrenia. And you know, a little bit
Speaker 1: of a silver lining on that is they actually can
Speaker 1: use PCP now and do use PCP as far as
Speaker 1: studying schizophrenia, and you know how those two are related
Speaker 1: in humans.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a big They give PCP to primates and
Speaker 2: study what happens to study schizophrenia, and then weirdly, they're
Speaker 2: also looking at PCP as a way to study or
Speaker 2: produce drugs that treat Alzheimer's because schizophrenia apparently is associated
Speaker 2: with a lack of glutamate. Remember, PCP inhibits glutamate and
Speaker 2: Alzheimer's results from they think an overabundance of glutamate in
Speaker 2: the in the brain. And so PCP has both of
Speaker 2: those effects that can induce schizophrenia. It could treat Alzheimer's conceivably.
Speaker 2: So I think the fact that it has so many
Speaker 2: terrible myths around it has really made people cautious about
Speaker 2: suggesting doing research using PCP.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not like researching microdosing mushrooms or something like
Speaker 1: that now.
Speaker 2: But there is a there is a whole thread of
Speaker 2: inquiry into it to say like okay, there's there's this
Speaker 2: is doing some stuff to the brain that we should
Speaker 2: be studying.
Speaker 1: Yeah. It can also induce seizures. It can really ramp
Speaker 1: up your heart rate. It can it can produce rapid
Speaker 1: involuntary eye movement. It's called nice stagmus.
Speaker 2: Yeah, not just like side to side or up and down,
Speaker 2: but in rotary fashion is one of the ways. So
Speaker 2: your eyes are just going in a.
Speaker 1: Cartoon style, yes exactly. Yeah. Uh. And it just seems
Speaker 1: to be sort of all over the map as far
Speaker 1: like a very unpredictable drug as far as its sedative qualities,
Speaker 1: and then it's sort of amping you up qualities.
Speaker 3: Yes exactly.
Speaker 2: That's what I was saying earlier, where you kind you
Speaker 2: can just vacillate between extremely digitation and catatonia essentially, and
Speaker 2: on the same trip over and over again. Really interesting,
Speaker 2: It is extremely interesting. One of the other big problems
Speaker 2: with it, And this is why I said you probably
Speaker 2: shouldn't vote if you are a frequent PCP user, not
Speaker 2: because you're a member of a marginal community, but because
Speaker 2: you probably have some really strange beliefs about yourself and
Speaker 2: your place.
Speaker 3: In the universe.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: One of the big.
Speaker 2: Things that comes out of it is especially prolonged use
Speaker 2: and chronic use is a shift in your spiritual and
Speaker 2: religious beliefs. And typically it kind of comes down to, Oh,
Speaker 2: I'm a god, and I need to just be hanging
Speaker 2: out and not doing much because that's what gods do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's also kind of ties back into the
Speaker 1: even though it's not superhuman strength, just a feeling of invincibility.
Speaker 1: But I've also seen that it's not so much an invincive.
Speaker 1: Usually it's not an invincibility of like I can take
Speaker 1: anyone on who wants to fight me. It's more of
Speaker 1: like I'm invincible in a good way, like I can
Speaker 1: do whatever I want. Again, not suggesting that it's like
Speaker 1: a motivational tool or something like that, sure, but it's
Speaker 1: just one of the things that can happen.
Speaker 2: And then conversely, if you are feeling, like say, socially anxious,
Speaker 2: you're probably going to experience profound paranoia. It will amplify
Speaker 2: it one way or another. It's the same thing with
Speaker 2: LSD that wholes set and setting thing right.
Speaker 3: So what else is there, Chuck, Well, if.
Speaker 1: You become addicted to PCP, there isn't like a sort
Speaker 1: of a straight ahead pharmaceutical treatment. It's gonna you know
Speaker 1: you're gonna have to wean yourself off of it through
Speaker 1: therapy and treatment. Basically, I think ed did find that
Speaker 1: chre prout here. I go chlor promozine core promisine, which
Speaker 1: is a drug. It can help reverse the effects if
Speaker 1: you're like like overdosing on PCP, but it's not like
Speaker 1: the kind of thing you used to break an addiction.
Speaker 3: No, and you can get addicted.
Speaker 2: It does have a high incidence of dependence because it's
Speaker 2: schedule too exactly. Not everything schedule two is actually addictive,
Speaker 2: But in this case it's actually correct that it stimulates
Speaker 2: your reward center so much it produces euph you that
Speaker 2: you want it again. But also it can physically alter
Speaker 2: your brain, not just to make you believe that you
Speaker 2: are a god or something on earth, but also to
Speaker 2: make that threshold for your reward system higher.
Speaker 3: So it's harder to.
Speaker 2: Feel good even a normal on a normal basis, and
Speaker 2: in turn, you end up having to ingest more and
Speaker 2: more amounts of PCP to get high. And that's a
Speaker 2: classic hall mark of dependency.
Speaker 1: Yep, classic hall mark of many drugs, because you use
Speaker 1: more and more and then that's just becomes more and
Speaker 1: more dangerous.
Speaker 2: Again, the withdrawal symptoms are really bad too. You can
Speaker 2: you can very frequently fall into major depression that can
Speaker 2: last weeks.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Uh, sometimes some of the symptoms don't ever go away,
Speaker 2: like you might have trouble talking or speaking. It's just
Speaker 2: not it's not a good thing to get into, especially
Speaker 2: long term.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's not the seventies anyway. What are you
Speaker 1: doing with PCP these days?
Speaker 2: Did you see that Saturday Night Live skit with Tracy
Speaker 2: Morgan and Will Ferrell and Matthew Broderick.
Speaker 1: No, is that what you said? Yes, that that link
Speaker 1: took me straight to a clip of The Ladies Man.
Speaker 2: Oh right, That's why I gave you the timestamp at
Speaker 2: the end. It's like at the end of the whole episode.
Speaker 1: All right, I missed that. I was like, what has
Speaker 1: the Ladies Man got to do with this? I was like,
Speaker 1: I love the Ladies Man bit, but right.
Speaker 3: No, it had nothing to do with it.
Speaker 2: Although it was it was basically like, uh, inside the
Speaker 2: Actors Studio kind of type thing, but for comedy, so
Speaker 2: it was real highbrow. Matthew Broderick's the host, and he
Speaker 2: was focusing on drug based comedy that had been inspired
Speaker 2: by Cheech and Chong, and he featured Orbit and zach
Speaker 2: or something like that. Who did PCP comedy. Yeah, Tracy
Speaker 2: Morgan was zach or or whatever, and Will Ferrell was Orbit,
Speaker 2: and they played little clips from their record, their hit
Speaker 2: records from the seventies, and it's just them like screaming
Speaker 2: about how there's snakes in the toilet and shooting the
Speaker 2: toilet with the shotgun. It's it's really funny, even if
Speaker 2: this stuffed mythical, it's it's just so easy to make
Speaker 2: really hilarious jokes off of PCP.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's what comedy is. No one's going to
Speaker 1: come along and say, like, actually, and that's not what
Speaker 1: PCP does.
Speaker 3: Right, exactly.
Speaker 1: That's good stuff.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 2: And then one other thing, if you want maybe a
Speaker 2: less than accurate depiction of PCP, you can check out
Speaker 2: the movie from nineteen eighty two called.
Speaker 1: Desperate Lives that the hell Hunt.
Speaker 2: Yes, a teenage Helen Hunt smokes PCP, jumps out of
Speaker 2: a second story window in her high school and becomes
Speaker 2: paralyzed as a result.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was Was that an actual after school special
Speaker 1: or it's possible it had that stink?
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely it was definitely a made for TV anti
Speaker 2: drug movie, but I'm not sure if it came on
Speaker 2: after school or not.
Speaker 1: I remember very vivid memories of that one, and then
Speaker 1: I know I mentioned it before, probably in one of
Speaker 1: the marijuana episodes the uh Chachi in Charge.
Speaker 3: Who's the guy Scott Bayo.
Speaker 1: Scott bo was in one on marijuana and I remember
Speaker 1: that's the first time I heard a bong because he
Speaker 1: smoked out of a bomb and had that bubbling and
Speaker 1: it's like, what is that? It was like it sounds
Speaker 1: like like rice crispies or something, and I was a
Speaker 1: little kid. I was just like, I've never heard anything
Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, So there you have it. Scott Bo
Speaker 1: and Helen Hunt, the kid, those two together.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Apparently Helen Hunt was in two anti PCP.
Speaker 1: Okay, I thought that one was an LSD one two PCPs.
Speaker 1: Good for her.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's how her career started.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then she went on to star in the
Speaker 1: show Matt about PCP.
Speaker 2: That's right, and then she did at a guest spot with
Speaker 2: Orbit and Zach Manta.
Speaker 1: I gotta watch that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's at the very end. I think it's the
Speaker 2: less Kid.
Speaker 1: All right, let me cue it up.
Speaker 2: All right, well, well Chuck's queuing it up everybody. That
Speaker 2: means it's time for listener mail.
Speaker 1: Oh wait, so I can't watch it right now?
Speaker 2: Sure we'll wait. Okay, it's pretty funny, but you can't
Speaker 2: turn it up. You have to put it on your
Speaker 2: headphones because we can't pay for the copyright usage.
Speaker 1: Let me find me boys here, anyone funnier than Tracy.
Speaker 3: Morgan, I don't think so.
Speaker 1: I love that guy. So this is about manners. Hey, guys,
Speaker 1: it's been a million years at your old Canadian Palamanda Hear,
Speaker 1: who missed the Toronto Live show. So Amanda says, I
Speaker 1: remember Amanda many moons ago when stuff you should know
Speaker 1: was new, and my boy Grant was about eleven. Chuck
Speaker 1: sent me an email response that encouraged Grant to read more,
Speaker 1: and he did. Thanks for that. He's twenty seven and now,
Speaker 1: oh goodness, and a carpenter living in Calgary who read
Speaker 1: your book. We are still avid listeners, and you guys
Speaker 1: kept the company on his recent drive from Toronto. You're
Speaker 1: the best companions on drives and while doing household chores,
Speaker 1: while doing so many other things. Anyway, about manners. My
Speaker 1: grandmother was a stickler for good manners, as were my parents.
Speaker 1: I passed out on to Grant and we have often
Speaker 1: been told how good manners make situations so much easier.
Speaker 1: I was recently asking in a professional development setting what
Speaker 1: the best advice for life I ever received was, and
Speaker 1: obviously I responded with what I told my kid and
Speaker 1: now stepkids. Manners are free and they're a social lubricant.
Speaker 1: It always gets a laugh and then once considered a
Speaker 1: nod and oh, that's right.
Speaker 2: And then everybody has a sandwich and goes their separate.
Speaker 1: Wings the dining table. If someone forgets their napkin on
Speaker 1: their lap or cuts their food all at once instead
Speaker 1: of eating it bite by bite, my partner and I
Speaker 1: will say if you were invited to dine with the queen,
Speaker 1: And it always gets a big eye roll and giggle
Speaker 1: at the table and make sure that the napkins are
Speaker 1: also in lapse though, and the food is cut properly.
Speaker 1: It's a fun game for all. I hope you have
Speaker 1: a marvelous day. Can't wait to hear the next episode
Speaker 1: after all these years. Stuff you should know is rock
Speaker 1: and roll nice?
Speaker 3: That was Amanda, That was Amanda.
Speaker 1: Manners are free, though, I like that. I don't know
Speaker 1: so much. The social lubricant part I might lose because
Speaker 1: manners are free is just so succinct.
Speaker 2: So I kind of like that, you know, I was thinking, Remember,
Speaker 2: I was kind of railing about elbows on the table
Speaker 2: just being so dated and unnecessary. I've been thinking about
Speaker 2: it since then, and while I still agree that it's
Speaker 2: a great example of people being overly uptight about manners,
Speaker 2: as if their identity is associated with it, and if
Speaker 2: you violate it, you're somehow insulting them, I disagree with
Speaker 2: that part. But I realized that being aware of whether
Speaker 2: your elbows are on the table or not makes you
Speaker 2: more aware of everything you're surrounding, the people with you,
Speaker 2: the food you're eating.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it just makes you.
Speaker 2: So I'm kind of done with you keeping your elbows
Speaker 2: up the table, not because somebody told you to, because
Speaker 2: you can do whatever you want as far as your
Speaker 2: elbows are concerned, as long as you don't put them
Speaker 2: in somebody else's space, but because it makes you more mindful.
Speaker 1: Don't dip your elbows in your partner soup. But I
Speaker 1: do want to say there's a couple of elbows on
Speaker 1: the table methods though, if you're if you're in the
Speaker 1: middle of eating and you've got like your elbow on
Speaker 1: the table and your hunch forward and you're eating with
Speaker 1: the other hand. I think that's kind of the rule.
Speaker 1: But like, if you're eating and you're done and you're
Speaker 1: having conversation, to push the plate away and put both
Speaker 1: elbows on the table and pat your hands together in
Speaker 1: a pensive way while you think of something smart and funny. Like,
Speaker 1: that's a whole different deal.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well that's elegant.
Speaker 2: So I've been training myself by putting the little dab
Speaker 2: of Momo's poop on each of my elbows right before
Speaker 2: dinner to make sure that I don't put them on
Speaker 2: the dinner table.
Speaker 3: It's working really well.
Speaker 1: That poop stays on your elbows belongs.
Speaker 2: That was from Amanda, what was your son's name? The
Speaker 2: one you inspired.
Speaker 1: Grant who has been listening since eleven and is now
Speaker 1: you know, sixty.
Speaker 3: That's awesome.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to us, Amanda and Grant, and thank
Speaker 2: you for listening to this episode.
Speaker 3: And if you want to get in touch with us.
Speaker 2: Like Amanda did and Grant by proxy, you can send
Speaker 2: us an email to Stuff Podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For
Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.