Speaker 1: Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies.
Speaker 3: These episodes are based on. These are our stories.
Speaker 4: Done done, Hello and welcome to That's Messed Up, an
Speaker 4: SVU podcast.
Speaker 2: I'm Kara Klank and I'm Liza Traeger. Happy New Year.
Speaker 2: I guess it's been a while.
Speaker 1: We recall the second Well, this is the second episode
Speaker 1: to really come out in the New Year, or maybe
Speaker 1: the third. It's the third, but this is our first
Speaker 1: time like recording. You guys know, we're time machine and everything.
Speaker 1: Plus it was the holidays and we were we had
Speaker 1: to record stuff in advance so we could live our
Speaker 1: lives for the holiday.
Speaker 3: And now we're back.
Speaker 2: We're back, and we talked SVU True Crime, we talked
Speaker 2: to celeb guests, and up top we catch up. You know. Yeah,
Speaker 2: this was the longest we hadn't recorded ever. I feel
Speaker 2: like we really took a holiday break.
Speaker 3: I didn't. It was a real break.
Speaker 2: But you know what's comical, all this stuff. I was like,
Speaker 2: and I'm gonna catch up on this. I'm gonna watch
Speaker 2: all of that. I'm gonna take notes on that, and
Speaker 2: it's like, honey, if I did anything besides watch Real
Speaker 2: Housewives of Miami, like I don't even think one task,
Speaker 2: it felt it really.
Speaker 3: Did feel incredible.
Speaker 2: I'd never feel like my life is too overwhelming or stressful,
Speaker 2: but doing nothing nothing felt great. And my parents are
Speaker 2: obsessed with me. So then they are like, you deserve it.
Speaker 1: You know, they like me doing nothing, feeding you grapes.
Speaker 1: I you know, everyone that has a kid listening to
Speaker 1: this podcast knows this is the worst time of the year.
Speaker 1: It's just seventeen full days of no childcare for my children,
Speaker 1: and we all got sick at Christmas. My kids both
Speaker 1: had ear infections in both ears.
Speaker 3: I was sick.
Speaker 1: I just got out of it because I finally got
Speaker 1: a doctor to give me an a bio. Why are
Speaker 1: they withholding I don't know the antibiotics.
Speaker 2: It's like, it's not that your mom just give you prescriptions.
Speaker 1: She sometimes will, but she sometimes is like, I really
Speaker 1: think you should see your doctor. You know, she just
Speaker 1: tries to be a little bit like you know she does.
Speaker 1: I mean she called in pink eye drops for my
Speaker 1: kids immediately they didn't really get pink eye. But then
Speaker 1: our friends got all got pink eye. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: my god. Yeah, great nightmare.
Speaker 3: Well I used to get pink eye. It's my nightmare.
Speaker 1: Like I had it once when I was like eleven,
Speaker 1: and I just still remember the feeling of like my
Speaker 1: eye being shut and not being able to open it
Speaker 1: and like I ugh. Anyway, we didn't really get it.
Speaker 1: My kids got a little bit of like, uh, the
Speaker 1: start of it, and we did the drops and it
Speaker 1: like never really materialized.
Speaker 2: It never got to full pink. How did they get
Speaker 2: your characters? Are they swimming?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 3: I don't understand how this happened.
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 1: I think it's like you get congested and then she
Speaker 1: goes into your ear drums and it's just like kids
Speaker 1: just get them.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Like I brought Rosie on a lark because I knew
Speaker 1: Oscar something was wrong, and I brought Rosie just to
Speaker 1: be like check her out too, and her ear infection
Speaker 1: was worse than his. The doctor was like looking at them,
Speaker 1: grading them out of ten, and she was like, well,
Speaker 1: that's a ten out of ten and your daughter and
Speaker 1: I was like great, cool. She was barely complaining about it.
Speaker 1: But they've taken their antibiotics.
Speaker 3: They're all good. They're on the men.
Speaker 1: We were all getting over Like, I mean, I've been
Speaker 1: reading about this on like Twitter and online and stuff,
Speaker 1: like everybody has these this like two week illnesses right
Speaker 1: now that like they can't shake, like coughs, congestion, whatever,
Speaker 1: And I'm at the tail end of mine. So I
Speaker 1: feel good now, but oh my god. Anyway, We've done
Speaker 1: a lot of fun stuff with our kids. It's been fun,
Speaker 1: but it's just like.
Speaker 3: Fuck, Like would you go into the Natural History Museum
Speaker 3: Natural History Museum.
Speaker 1: We've gone into like other kids places like the Southern
Speaker 1: California Children's Museum, the Kids Space. Uh, there's this place
Speaker 1: called Peekaboo near us where like our babysitter takes them sometimes.
Speaker 2: I messaged you, Karra, was it the day after Christmas
Speaker 2: or something where you posted five stories about the Bob
Speaker 2: Baker marionettes And I was like.
Speaker 4: I love it.
Speaker 2: You have not posted about anything this much, not even
Speaker 2: our own podcast. It was just like story after a
Speaker 2: story of these marionettes.
Speaker 3: So cute. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I just like I took a bunch of pictures and
Speaker 1: I was like, these are my best five, and so
Speaker 1: I post sent them in my stories and Lisa was
Speaker 1: immediately like, fuck, are they paying you?
Speaker 3: And I was like no, I just like it.
Speaker 2: Well, because our friend Jaron was in San Diego posting
Speaker 2: about a hotel often and I went, is this a sponsorship?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: They gave me the room for free.
Speaker 2: And I was like, on con because he kept being
Speaker 2: like and then they have this and look at this gym.
Speaker 3: I'm like, what am happening?
Speaker 5: I wish I could say I was sponsored by Bob
Speaker 5: Baker's Marionette Theater, the oldest Marionette theater in the country,
Speaker 5: by the way, everybody, if you're interested in Marionette, really, yeah,
Speaker 5: they say it at.
Speaker 1: The beginning of the show. They're like, we're the oldest
Speaker 1: working Marionette theater. I mean, I can't imagine there's a
Speaker 1: ton of Marionette theaters everywhere. But anyway, we've taken our
Speaker 1: kids to do lots of shit. And I will say
Speaker 1: I've caught up on a lot of television. I watched
Speaker 1: all of White Lotus everybody it's happened, I've watched them.
Speaker 2: But I have an amazing question. This is he's gonna
Speaker 2: stump and fuck people up. I think what's the better
Speaker 2: theme song? White Lotus or SVU. Oh, isn't that break
Speaker 2: or brain?
Speaker 3: That's breaking my brain?
Speaker 1: Because you know what happened is like I was on
Speaker 1: TikTok for some reason and I saw a DJ like
Speaker 1: mixing the White Lotus theme song into like a dance tune,
Speaker 1: and I was like, fuck the slaps.
Speaker 3: That theme song is really fun.
Speaker 2: I mentioned White Lotus on a set a while ago,
Speaker 2: and at my walk off music they played the White
Speaker 2: Lotus theme and it was just like, my god, it
Speaker 2: just is good. But SVU is so good too, and
Speaker 2: it gives me the same I want to dance. I
Speaker 2: would never fast forward. This is so good.
Speaker 1: Also, the White Lotus one is such an earworm, like
Speaker 1: it's been in my head for like a day at
Speaker 1: a time where I'm like, oh my god, stop like
Speaker 1: stop making the noises of the White Lotus song. Whereas
Speaker 1: I so I do feel like if I had to
Speaker 1: listen to it for twenty four years, I might not
Speaker 1: like it as much as the SVU theme song, which
Speaker 1: has never bothered me in twenty four years and the
Speaker 1: amount that I watch it.
Speaker 3: It's just like, you know, so I don't know to.
Speaker 2: That baby on the internet that went to the two
Speaker 2: Themes song. We did post that, and thank you all
Speaker 2: for sending us that as well. Love so many gifts,
Speaker 2: well so many so to us. We get all this
Speaker 2: SVU stuff and I am so guilty of this I sent.
Speaker 2: I can't believe I keep talking about our friend Jared,
Speaker 2: but I sent him this. There's a place in New
Speaker 2: York where it's make your own charcuterie board, and it's like, like,
Speaker 2: I think it's a great idea, actually, but you go
Speaker 2: in and you just pick stuff like Chipotle and they
Speaker 2: make like a board for you.
Speaker 3: And I sent it to him.
Speaker 2: He's like, yeah, I got it, and it's like, oh yeah, duh,
Speaker 2: Like he's known for that. We're no for rest of you.
Speaker 2: It's like, but I'm just sure guilty person. I'm so guilty.
Speaker 2: I will always send the thing.
Speaker 1: And they're like, yeah, yeah, people just think of us
Speaker 1: and they send this you thing.
Speaker 3: But wait a minute. So speaking of I.
Speaker 1: Posted this on our account stories, but I caught up
Speaker 1: on OC and last night I was watching the newer episode,
Speaker 1: which I know by the time this episode comes out
Speaker 1: it won't be that new.
Speaker 3: But Maloney's in therapy. Stabler's in therapy, yes, and he's and.
Speaker 1: It started out as the It started out as the
Speaker 1: therapy that you have to go to when you discharge
Speaker 1: your weapon and him being like, can I get out
Speaker 1: of here already? The same shit he always does. And
Speaker 1: then his female partner like convinced him to go back.
Speaker 1: So he goes back and he actually starts opening up
Speaker 1: and I was like, holy shit, is twenty twenty three
Speaker 1: the year? So why did he open up about his wife?
Speaker 1: And you know, the guy just said something. The therapist
Speaker 1: said something to him that I think struck a chord
Speaker 1: where he was like, yeah, everyone acts like it's so
Speaker 1: unnecessary to be vulnerable in therapy and stuff. Well then
Speaker 1: why are you so scared to do it? Like why
Speaker 1: are you fighting so hard against doing it? Like basically
Speaker 1: something like that. And Stabler, you could tell, was like oooh,
Speaker 1: like you know, and then his partner convincing him to
Speaker 1: go back, and he thanked her. He was like, thank
Speaker 1: you for convincing me to go back, Like it's a
Speaker 1: whole new year of Stabler.
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe the show, maybe the people in charge did
Speaker 2: here or calls and if they if they want to
Speaker 2: and Marishka Stabler together, we need therapy, so yeah, maybe, yeah,
Speaker 2: I never want them to be together. But my biggest
Speaker 2: thing was, like he hasn't worked on himself in so long. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so you started real houses in Miami? Where are you
Speaker 2: are you? I started this season?
Speaker 1: I okay, So I already watched I dabbled in one, two,
Speaker 1: and three, so I know kind of like I knew
Speaker 1: the Joanna Krup of it all, and like Marisol and
Speaker 1: her crazy mom and all that.
Speaker 3: So I sort of.
Speaker 1: Am like familiar with a couple of these people. So
Speaker 1: I didn't go to four. I started with five. I
Speaker 1: just I figured I could go back to four later.
Speaker 1: So I'm on five and I'm probably four episodes in,
Speaker 1: like I'm getting into like the weird shit with like
Speaker 1: Martina Navratilova and her wife where her wife is like
Speaker 1: stop making me make food for you when we're alone
Speaker 1: or whatever, and like Martina's like, wait, what have I
Speaker 1: got myself into?
Speaker 3: Well, I'm poortant. You thought you've seen the news though?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: That so we wish her, I know, sending her.
Speaker 1: She has a recent health diagnosis, and I really I
Speaker 1: hope she's okay, but yeah.
Speaker 2: She'd go back to watch season four. These women's like
Speaker 2: like Miami has become like close to New York. I
Speaker 2: think it's so good that these women give like they
Speaker 2: go hard, but they do love each other. Like the
Speaker 2: best part is when you could tell they're actually friends
Speaker 2: or like that's what's have connections and they do they
Speaker 2: care about each other. Like when Alexia's mom died, they
Speaker 2: all go to the feudure like they're there for each other,
Speaker 2: but they will be like, wow, you live in that place.
Speaker 2: That's where hookers live. You know, they're so fucking mean.
Speaker 2: But the reason I thought of it was because Alexia
Speaker 2: and her family has been have been through so much.
Speaker 2: You know, their son, her son got no an accent,
Speaker 2: but then her older son beat up a homeless person
Speaker 2: went you know, god like, but really this was years ago,
Speaker 2: and she just keeps excusing it of like he was
Speaker 2: just scared about his brother this and that, and it's like, no,
Speaker 2: we're all going through something like you have to acknowl
Speaker 2: she just keeps excusing it, and it bothers me. But
Speaker 2: she has Teresa energy, so I'm like scared to even
Speaker 2: talk about her. And then you know, he the charges
Speaker 2: got dropped, but there was like charges of domestic violence
Speaker 2: and he got into a fight with like the new
Speaker 2: husband and all this stuff, and he refuses therapy.
Speaker 3: She won't push him, and it's like he needs therapy. Honestly.
Speaker 1: There's something about him people, Yeah, there's something about him
Speaker 1: that really freaks me out. His monotone, like weird energy
Speaker 1: with his mom, Like, I don't know, he seems like
Speaker 1: one of those freaky quiet ones you gotta watch kind
Speaker 1: of guys.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: And she's just even in the reunion about the domestic violence.
Speaker 2: She goes, domestic violence is a real problem for men.
Speaker 2: Women lie all the time. And you hear Julia on
Speaker 2: the couch, Oh my god. Yeah, and you hear Julia
Speaker 2: on the couch go, no, domestic violence is a big problem,
Speaker 2: and she goes, yeah, but there's both two sides. And
Speaker 2: it's like these are the mothers and the parents that create,
Speaker 2: Like you have to know your kid sucks.
Speaker 3: I don't know. Yeah, it's like it's really.
Speaker 2: It's tough because it's like you want unconditional love from
Speaker 2: your parents, but you need a parent to be like,
Speaker 2: it's fucked up what you did and you need to
Speaker 2: get help.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and you need a parent that's going to
Speaker 1: burn your license at a pizza place because you've got
Speaker 1: caught drum driving Elliott Stabler.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I'm loving it. They're so rich.
Speaker 1: They're really like I love the like the colorful, like
Speaker 1: wardrobe of Miami, Like everything is fun, the titties. I
Speaker 1: think Larsa Pippen looks like a weird Kardashian Like I
Speaker 1: don't know, but I like, yeah, I mean, I'm still
Speaker 1: getting a handle on who they all are. Like there
Speaker 1: there's one woman that I think might not be a
Speaker 1: housewife but just is hanging out and I'm like, are
Speaker 1: you it? Like you know, I'm just trying to figure
Speaker 1: them all out right now.
Speaker 2: But I like Gerdy No, I love Gerty, but also
Speaker 2: Ira Madison sweeted this and it was like.
Speaker 3: Us Miami is the best it's ever been.
Speaker 2: And in reality, it's just like Lisa's life falling apart
Speaker 2: before our eyes, you know what I mean. It's just
Speaker 2: like so for those who don't watch, like this is
Speaker 2: because I know what I talked to, They're like, is
Speaker 2: this real? And it's like, no, this is real, Like
Speaker 2: obviously there's produced parties and conversations, but like their lives
Speaker 2: are real, And so for those who are not watching,
Speaker 2: there's a woman who's been married to a piece of
Speaker 2: shit for fourteen years, a Russian Jew like me, but
Speaker 2: he legit after fourteen years, was like bringing his girlfri
Speaker 2: like legit, just told her like, I'm divorcing you, get
Speaker 2: out of the house, take your fucking kids. And then
Speaker 2: while she was away working, like brought the twenty plus
Speaker 2: like twenty four year old girlfriend to the house with
Speaker 2: the kids, kicked his mom and the nanny out of
Speaker 2: the house, is out clubbing with this girlfriend while still
Speaker 2: married to this woman, and this woman is like dealing
Speaker 2: with it in real time, like and he got busted
Speaker 2: on a hot mike talking about it. Yes, a hot
Speaker 2: mic cheating confession. It's like, yeah, it's he but you
Speaker 2: look at the old footage from even eight years ago,
Speaker 2: and it's uncomfortable to even watch.
Speaker 1: He never liked, well, well, what's crazy too, is like
Speaker 1: I knew about it from you. I knew about it
Speaker 1: from just being like I follow Bravo accounts, so like
Speaker 1: I knew about the cheating before I started the season.
Speaker 1: And the way they are editing it is excruciating, Like
Speaker 1: if you know about it going in, they're making her
Speaker 1: look so dumb, like she just keeps talking about how
Speaker 1: happy they are.
Speaker 3: She keeps talking about how they're on an Upsuing's not dumb,
Speaker 3: it's denial, it's hope.
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 2: But she doesn't really have parents. She does like Lenny
Speaker 2: is her world. She they're like knowing the editors, knowing
Speaker 2: that this is happening. It feels like they're doing her
Speaker 2: a little bit dirty, Like, oh no, I think they're
Speaker 2: making her victim. I think there were Now we're like Lisa.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you're right, you're right.
Speaker 1: I guess I haven't. I'll tell you something. I'm just
Speaker 1: getting up to the part with the Discovery. I'm just
Speaker 1: at the hot mic, like I'm the next thing I'm watching,
Speaker 1: so I haven't actually watched it yet.
Speaker 3: He's editly number one.
Speaker 2: I feel like everyone cares about her now, even though
Speaker 2: she But my whole thing is like when you marry
Speaker 2: for shallow reasons, Yeah, this is what you get, Like
Speaker 2: you expect true companionship and care when you married someone
Speaker 2: from my and you married someone for hot and it
Speaker 2: it's like he was gonna leave her because she couldn't
Speaker 2: get pregnant, Like he doesn't care about her.
Speaker 3: Did she get pregnant? Thought?
Speaker 2: Okay, But like the earlier seasons, it was very much
Speaker 2: like he's gonna leave me if I can't give him
Speaker 2: a child, and it's like, yeah, because you're not you're
Speaker 2: not truly in love connection. Yeah yeah, and he used
Speaker 2: you and now it's all falling apart, and it's like,
Speaker 2: but how did you think this was gonna work? I
Speaker 2: think the most jealous I've ever been is Nicole. I
Speaker 2: think Nicole is amazing. This neurosurgeon with a bang and
Speaker 2: body and a rich fiance was obsessed with her.
Speaker 3: I thought she was an anesthesiologist. Yeah she is. What
Speaker 3: did I say? Neurosurgeon?
Speaker 1: She's the same as what Tiffany Moon is, Right, they're
Speaker 1: both anesthesiology. They make yeah, which is a very complicated
Speaker 1: line of medical work.
Speaker 3: I feel like I'm very lucrative.
Speaker 2: I mean we have, Yeah, it started, but I did
Speaker 2: have a list of stuff. I know Ja Shetty.
Speaker 3: Do you know him?
Speaker 2: But yeah, why do I know that name? He's a
Speaker 2: popular podcast. He used to be a monk. He's like
Speaker 2: a guru of joy and happiness.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I just didn't know if I trust him or not.
Speaker 2: And I'm curious of our viewers. I didn't I did
Speaker 2: a deep dive through his instagram and I liked some stuff,
Speaker 2: but the idea of like Monk of the Earth, Salt
Speaker 2: of the Earth, people becoming influencers bothers me. And then
Speaker 2: his wife had a video of like how to properly
Speaker 2: drink water, and it was like.
Speaker 3: Have we all been doing it wrong? It was annoying.
Speaker 2: It was like room temp and it's like, shut up,
Speaker 2: stop stressing people out. Like if people are drinking water,
Speaker 2: let them drink it the way they need to drink it.
Speaker 1: That's the least they're drinking it. Just drink water, everybody.
Speaker 2: I told you I've been having a lot of problems
Speaker 2: with my thyroil. Like I've just been having problems. And
Speaker 2: I told my you know, coffee, I guess irritates it.
Speaker 2: And I was like, you know what, I'm just gonna
Speaker 2: give up coffee. And my endocronologist is like, that's the
Speaker 2: least of your problems. She goes, there's like ten things
Speaker 2: you need to stop doing before coffee. I have have coffee.
Speaker 2: She's like, you, I hear coffee and that's how I
Speaker 2: fill with water. It's like, none of us, that's our
Speaker 2: biggest problem, Like we're all struggling to like take care
Speaker 2: of ourselves. We don't need some you know, bitch with
Speaker 2: light eyes telling us that.
Speaker 3: We're drinking water wrong.
Speaker 2: But they had this cute moment where it was like,
Speaker 2: she goes, you know, I'm sometimes I'm a brat and
Speaker 2: I asked you to get me my water bottle, but
Speaker 2: it's closer to me and you still do it, And
Speaker 2: how do you deal with me when I'm annoying?
Speaker 3: And he goes.
Speaker 2: I just realized, like that's how you need to be
Speaker 2: loved in that moment, and why wouldn't I do it?
Speaker 2: And I was just like, wow, you aren't. You guys
Speaker 2: are enlightened and focused. But then I'm like, but are
Speaker 2: you dead behind the eyes or not?
Speaker 3: I just don't know. I just don't know. But listen, wait,
Speaker 3: we have huge news. We have huge news.
Speaker 1: First, I'm going to say this episode comes out on
Speaker 1: the seventeenth, and on the nineteenth we're going to be
Speaker 1: in Philadelphia. There's still a few tickets left. On the twentieth,
Speaker 1: we're in New York. It's sold out. But look, maybe
Speaker 1: check the comments underneath the homework post. Sometimes people get
Speaker 1: COVID and they're giving away their tickets or whatever.
Speaker 3: The twenty first, we're in Boston.
Speaker 1: There are still a few tickets left for the four
Speaker 1: o'clock Boston show. Come see us. The seven o'clock is
Speaker 1: sold out. And then we're in Hartford on the twenty second.
Speaker 1: That's the last day to this big fall tour. So
Speaker 1: come to Hartford and see us on the twenty second.
Speaker 1: But the big news that I'm making you wait for
Speaker 1: is that tonight, Lisa and I are going to be
Speaker 1: on Watch What Happens Live.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're so excited.
Speaker 1: Obviously, you guys know that besides U s FORU, our
Speaker 1: true love is Bravo, and we're so excited to be bartenders.
Speaker 1: We're not on the couch for bartenders, which is great,
Speaker 1: and we're gonna behind the bar.
Speaker 2: I'm excited about is the people that are the main guests.
Speaker 2: I don't know if they're Bravo heads. So I'm hoping
Speaker 2: that he leans on us. Maybe he asks us a
Speaker 2: couple questions about what's going down in Bravoland.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So anyway, if you have Bravo, tune into us
Speaker 1: tonight behind the bar. I'm stressing out trying to find
Speaker 1: an outfit, but hopefully I look presentable and uh, you
Speaker 1: guys can check us out there also, guys, we have
Speaker 1: tons of fun merch up in our merch store. It's
Speaker 1: like on our bio of our Instagram, or you can
Speaker 1: go to Thats Messed Up live dot com and scroll
Speaker 1: down to the bottom. The merch link is there, and
Speaker 1: that's also where you can get tickets for all of
Speaker 1: our shows. But we've got like a new beanie, a
Speaker 1: fun fanny pack. I've been bringing the fanny pack around
Speaker 1: the name of fanny pack. Oh, mine just came like
Speaker 1: like during the break. Are you sure, I'll check the mailbox.
Speaker 1: I haven't checked yet. I'll check the mailbox. But I
Speaker 1: thought it would be like more of a package because
Speaker 1: it's thin. It's no, it's like in a thin little package. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm excited for that. And you know this is embarrassing.
Speaker 2: I would rather not do this, but give us a
Speaker 2: little review, give us some five. Yeah, the Taylor Swift
Speaker 2: fans did come for us hard, and we would love
Speaker 2: to get our numbers.
Speaker 1: Yeah us some stars throw some stars on the old
Speaker 1: I just recket those fucking wheat.
Speaker 2: Review tell them, tell people why you enjoy us so,
Speaker 2: because I don't think we're you know, misogynists that are
Speaker 2: pick me girls.
Speaker 3: But some people do. Some people think we which is
Speaker 3: so funny to me. I did it. Yeah. Misogyny is
Speaker 3: that you're not allowed to ever question a woman.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I was gonna say, we're missing dress yees like one
Speaker 3: hundred percent missing drifts. All right, but let's get started.
Speaker 1: We have a hot episode for you guys today. Okay,
Speaker 1: we are doing a more recent one. This is from
Speaker 1: last season. SE's in twenty three. Tangled Strands of Justice
Speaker 1: came out April of twenty twenty two, so earlier this year.
Speaker 3: I don't know when this episode's coming out, so Mike
Speaker 3: twenty three.
Speaker 2: But it's such a good episode, reminiscent of the early years.
Speaker 1: It really is awesome, really a great one. I'm so
Speaker 1: glad we got to do it. We open on a
Speaker 1: flashback and it is September eleventh, two thousand and one,
Speaker 1: and at seven am, So damn if you pay attention
Speaker 1: to that, you know something's about to go down. So
Speaker 1: a big group of cops are about to search an
Speaker 1: area in Harlem for a girl named Aretha Green, thirteen
Speaker 1: years old. Last scene in the park going to get
Speaker 1: her scooter or something like that, and hasn't been seen again.
Speaker 1: And then there's a young Garland there, Christian Garland or
Speaker 1: departed from the show de more Barnes.
Speaker 3: I almost said our dearly departed to more Barnes. But
Speaker 3: he's not dead. He just left the show.
Speaker 1: And he's there wondering do you think we're going to
Speaker 1: find this girl? And his boss is like, son, we
Speaker 1: find old men and toddlers. Kids this age don't get found,
Speaker 1: and I think he means like they're either dead or
Speaker 1: they've run away. So the boss cop suddenly gets a
Speaker 1: radio call for his whole unit to mobilize to a
Speaker 1: different location because something's going on at the World Trade
Speaker 1: Center and it says, oh, yes, Sesna just hit one
Speaker 1: of the towers. So we're like seeing nine to eleven
Speaker 1: happen on this show in real time kind of. And
Speaker 1: Garland just kind of stares back at this lake in
Speaker 1: the park and then just follows his boss. And now
Speaker 1: we cut to present day and the cops are at
Speaker 1: that same body of water, which is called the Harlem
Speaker 1: merror Meer, and there's talking about how this kid was
Speaker 1: fishing and he found a fingerbone and then there's a
Speaker 1: black bag filled with bones and when this cot bends
Speaker 1: down to look at it closer. This eel comes slithering
Speaker 1: out and it really freaked me out. But it's very
Speaker 1: flatsom and jutsam, so I kind of love it. And
Speaker 1: he says, get this to the morgue. Like I think
Speaker 1: he's like pissed that he got busted in front of
Speaker 1: everybody looking freaked out because of the eel really freaked
Speaker 1: him out, so he's like, get this bag.
Speaker 3: To the morgue.
Speaker 1: So now we cut to a totally different scene a
Speaker 1: bedroom where a young woman in a tight dress is
Speaker 1: kind of tiptoeing around and she steals a watch off
Speaker 1: the bedside table as a very hairy man sleeps there,
Speaker 1: and she opens his drawer of his you know like drawers,
Speaker 1: and steals six more watches that are in like their
Speaker 1: own cases so you can tell they're pricey watches. She
Speaker 1: grabs her shoes and she gets the fuck out of there,
Speaker 1: and then we see the guy roll over and be like, baby,
Speaker 1: are you in the bathroom?
Speaker 3: Where are you?
Speaker 1: Kendall, So he's been I don't know Rick rold or
Speaker 1: trick rolled. I don't know what's going on. But we
Speaker 1: cut to our hairy victim walking the cops inside his bedroom,
Speaker 1: showing them where eight hundred and fifty thousand dollars in
Speaker 1: watches used to be. And with him is Detective Nadia
Speaker 1: Zabo and she works in with the Major Case Squad.
Speaker 1: And this is a fun fact. This is a Broadway
Speaker 1: diva named or Fe and she is the wife of
Speaker 1: Andy Carl aka Baby Dodds. So that's a fun little thing.
Speaker 1: She's played tons of roles on Broadway and she's been
Speaker 1: on SBU before. She was a smaller part in the
Speaker 1: episode she paints for vengeance, but this is her big
Speaker 1: role as this detective who I think you guys are
Speaker 1: gonna love her or hate her.
Speaker 3: It's a great role.
Speaker 1: And the squad, the Major Case Squad Chris hate the character.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The Major Case Squad I looked up investigates homicides, kidnappings, burgery, larceny,
Speaker 1: and robberies that occur within the five boroughs of New
Speaker 1: York City. So I guess is this I believe is
Speaker 1: happening in Queens. But anything she covers all the Burroughs
Speaker 1: and basically any precinct can toss something up to Major
Speaker 1: Case if they feel like it's worth it. I never
Speaker 1: really looked into what major case was. I've heard them
Speaker 1: talk about it, so I thought that was interesting. Anyway,
Speaker 1: this dude thinks the watches were stolen while he was
Speaker 1: out the night before because he doesn't even assume.
Speaker 3: That it could be Kendall.
Speaker 1: He thinks she just went back to her dormant NYU
Speaker 1: and they met on Sugar Baby's website, he says, and
Speaker 1: Detective Zabo's like, okay, bitch, so you've got some kind
Speaker 1: of arrangement with this girl. And he does not like
Speaker 1: her what she's implying. We are in a committed relationship,
Speaker 1: and she kind of like you know, raises a brow
Speaker 1: and he's like, look, I help her out sometimes, tuition books, whatever,
Speaker 1: and she's like, well, guess what, dude, we just checked
Speaker 1: and no one with that name goes to NYU. So
Speaker 1: he's like, that's crazy, Kendall. You feel sad for this guy.
Speaker 1: He's like he's been robbed and now he's like his
Speaker 1: whole relationship is imploding. And he's like, she's never lied
Speaker 1: to me before. She's like a sweet injured fawn. She
Speaker 1: was even sexually assaulted in like, you know, I was
Speaker 1: trying to help her get over it. Kind of and
Speaker 1: then perks Zabo's ears right up. She's like, when when
Speaker 1: was she assaulted? And he goes a year ago and
Speaker 1: I was helping her get over it. So they go
Speaker 1: to the bathroom and there's a lipstick message that says
Speaker 1: sorry daddy tests today xoxo with like a kiss, and
Speaker 1: so she goes wipe it all for Prince, get the
Speaker 1: DNA off this mirror or whatever. So now we cut
Speaker 1: to Garland in a Florida hotel room on a family
Speaker 1: vaka watching the news about the skeletal remains being found
Speaker 1: in the New York City body of water, and obviously
Speaker 1: this is peaking his interest and he remembers the old case.
Speaker 3: So now cut back.
Speaker 1: To major case and Detective Zabo is showing the man
Speaker 1: with the watches Kendall through the one way glass and
Speaker 1: he's like, yeah, that's her, and she goes e vaal,
Speaker 1: which means bravo, are well done in Farsie and he's
Speaker 1: shocked she speaks Farsie and she goes it's a long story,
Speaker 1: but we never hear a second of it, Like, we
Speaker 1: have no idea why she speaks Varsie, why is she
Speaker 1: you know? But whatever, So it's sad, and he goes,
Speaker 1: you really found the watches on her? I thought she
Speaker 1: liked me. It's like a sad moment. And then he's
Speaker 1: like she did, but she did and she didn't or
Speaker 1: something like that. She's got some kind of quip. And
Speaker 1: then Kendall's lawyer is our girl, Mausam macar and here
Speaker 1: is where she's playing attorney Dara mclauney, because we interviewed
Speaker 1: her when she was the victim in the gamer Gate episode,
Speaker 1: but she has this recurring role in later seasons where
Speaker 1: she's this attorney named Dara mcgloney.
Speaker 2: And we've talked to a lot of people, but for
Speaker 2: some reason with Maozam, we do get extra excited.
Speaker 3: It is yeah, I don't know why, but we're I
Speaker 3: just she was.
Speaker 2: We watched this episode together in a hotel and we
Speaker 2: both are.
Speaker 3: Like, Masam, yeah, we were like, it's our.
Speaker 1: Friend, but you know she might literally ignore us at
Speaker 1: a party, so who knows. And she's like, what's going on?
Speaker 1: My client was living under a different identity. How did
Speaker 1: you find her? And Zabo like evades the question and
Speaker 1: is like, tell your client to confess to grand larceny.
Speaker 3: She might not even do time.
Speaker 1: So now back in New York, Garland is fresh from
Speaker 1: his trip to Orlando, meeting up with Benson at a
Speaker 1: diner and he shows her the missing poster of Aretha
Speaker 1: from two thousand and one and he thinks it's her.
Speaker 3: And now we're at the credits.
Speaker 1: I mean, can you believe, like we've literally been in
Speaker 1: ten locations across different time periods. This is like the
Speaker 1: most packed credits pre cold open of all time. So
Speaker 1: top of Actwan Garland's telling Rollins and Vinnie Barberino fucking
Speaker 1: velasco how Aretha went missing September tenth. He's not for me,
Speaker 1: his like goomba voice, like I don't know. He's like, uh,
Speaker 1: he seems like a guy who always has his mouth
Speaker 1: open a little bit, you know what I mean. And
Speaker 1: Garland's explaining, He's like, look, Aretha went missing on September
Speaker 1: tenth of the year of September eleventh, and he was
Speaker 1: I was barely out of the academy. We were performing
Speaker 1: a grid search around the Harlem Mere that was never
Speaker 1: finished because of the attacks, and the investigation got completely sidelined.
Speaker 1: And Rollins is like, isn't this a homicide case?
Speaker 3: Chief? And it's like he's not a chief anymore.
Speaker 1: And we find out that he's about to become deputy
Speaker 1: mayor of the new administration. So homicide and all the
Speaker 1: other departments besides sp are about to hate his guts,
Speaker 1: and so Benson's like, I'll deal with homicide, and he goes.
Speaker 1: My boss at the time was Karl Mannix. He was
Speaker 1: the duty captain. He's retired in Hempstead, which is on
Speaker 1: Long Island, and Rollins and velasco. You take the lead
Speaker 1: on this, Benson says. And she sends them to Long Island.
Speaker 1: But she goes, but not on your motorcycle. She's such
Speaker 1: a mom. And so now we're on on Long Island
Speaker 1: talking to the boss cop from the Aretha search and
Speaker 1: he's old. Now he's got an oxygen tank. And Rollins
Speaker 1: is once again in gorgeous outerwear. You know, you can't
Speaker 1: ever knock her for that, And Mannix remembers the whole case.
Speaker 3: He's like, oh, yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Would love if people were knocking her for it, being
Speaker 2: like great, another camel.
Speaker 1: Coat, yeah, another camil trench. Yeah. So Mannix remembers the
Speaker 1: whole case. He's like, yeah, she seemed like a nerdy kid,
Speaker 1: like she didn't see like strike me as a runaway,
Speaker 1: and they're like, yeah, so the investigation kind of got
Speaker 1: pushed to the back burner, and he's like, try pushed
Speaker 1: off the stove, like there was before and after nine
Speaker 1: to eleven. But during he says, I think there were
Speaker 1: a lot of tragedies that went unsolved, like during the
Speaker 1: days around it. And so he says the mother called
Speaker 1: every day for months, he had no leads, and they
Speaker 1: were busy pulling bodies out of the rubble of nine
Speaker 1: to eleven, So it sounds very like, you know, traumatic
Speaker 1: for everyone. And he talks about how guys his age
Speaker 1: lost a lot more after nine to eleven because I
Speaker 1: think of I think he's basically talking about all of
Speaker 1: the illness that came to first responders, and he's like
Speaker 1: some of us were luckier than others. He taps his
Speaker 1: little oxygen tank and goes, I've had lung cancer since
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen. And then when he hears about how they
Speaker 1: found the body and it might be Aretha, he does
Speaker 1: the sign of the Cross and tells the detectives he
Speaker 1: hopes they see it through and he says, tell the
Speaker 1: mother he's sorry, and we see Carisi on the phone
Speaker 1: now in a different scene coming down the steps and
Speaker 1: he's obviously on the phone with Rollins and he's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna make falaffel tonight. And I'm like, I wonder
Speaker 1: if Coorsi's falafful is any good? And he gets approached
Speaker 1: by our best friend. You do, Yeah, I think he's
Speaker 1: good in the kitchen.
Speaker 2: It took me a second, but I was like, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's like making a meatball, right, but what different? Yeah,
Speaker 2: But like the problem with falaffel is like it gets
Speaker 2: so dry, like you really have to figure out a
Speaker 2: way to like make falaffel. I feel like, no tastes
Speaker 2: like a bunch of like keene wall of oporating in
Speaker 2: your mouth.
Speaker 1: Not that it's made out of quenoa. I think it's
Speaker 1: it's it's chickpea or something, but you know it, oh.
Speaker 3: I do.
Speaker 1: But I like it when you get it in the
Speaker 1: sandwich and it's got like all that sauce on it
Speaker 1: to make it give you some moisture.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: I used to love going to that Falaffel place near
Speaker 1: the comedy cellar.
Speaker 3: Yeah my mood. Yeah, so that is amazing, Moon.
Speaker 2: But uh yeah, I don't think many people just pop
Speaker 2: them in their mouth. But Cafe Mogador has great Falaffel humusplate.
Speaker 2: I think it's one of my favorites ever. And then
Speaker 2: obviously Peeda In and Skokie. But you're right, it's a
Speaker 2: delicate balance because you want to crunch and you want
Speaker 2: it moist.
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, but not too dry but not not dripping.
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, I love Meddle. Yeah, we want to right,
Speaker 2: so good.
Speaker 1: So while he's like, he hangs up with a Falaffel
Speaker 1: talk and he gets approached by Miglauney aka our best
Speaker 1: friend Mouseam and she explains her case and she's like,
Speaker 1: it's kind of weird how major case found my girl,
Speaker 1: Like she has a burner, a different idea, like no idea,
Speaker 1: Like he didn't know any of her real details. And
Speaker 1: they're being really cagy about how they found her, and
Speaker 1: Cariese's like, this isn't really my wheelhouse and then she's like,
Speaker 1: hold up, you know you know who my client is.
Speaker 1: He was one of Henry Messner's victims last year. This
Speaker 1: is the kid from Born Psychopath in season fourteen, who
Speaker 1: then returned in season twenty two in the episode called
Speaker 1: Postgraduate Psychopath and she goes, you know, the psycho who
Speaker 1: speared you in the ear to carees ring any bells,
Speaker 1: and he's like yeah, and he's like, who's the victim, and.
Speaker 3: She goes Libby Blandon.
Speaker 1: So if you remember this episode, she was the daughter
Speaker 1: of Henry's psychiatrist who he sexually assaulted and tortured, so
Speaker 1: it was a really brutal assault. We cut to Benson saying, damn,
Speaker 1: that was a brutal assault, and they're like major case
Speaker 1: was able to id her twelve hours from the initial report,
Speaker 1: Like how would.
Speaker 3: You be able to do that?
Speaker 1: And mglaanney heard one of the detectives say that they
Speaker 1: didn't need Libby's DNA because they already had it. But
Speaker 1: she's never been arrested in New York and Lives Like
Speaker 1: even if she'd been arrested in another state, that's like
Speaker 1: too quick to rush DNA.
Speaker 3: So this is very weird. This is like red flags
Speaker 3: for them.
Speaker 1: So Libby's already been ro r and Live is like
Speaker 1: going to take this one on personally because this girl
Speaker 1: needs an advocate. So rollins we're playing both of these
Speaker 1: stories at the same time. We're back on the Aretha storyline.
Speaker 1: And rollins walks into the morgue to get some scoop
Speaker 1: on the girl from the mirror. And this is male
Speaker 1: Milinda named Frank Wood is the actor and he is
Speaker 1: playing Emmy Abel Truman, and he's been in a couple
Speaker 1: episodes that we've watched lately. Actually, I just watched like
Speaker 1: an episode from two weeks ago on SPU and it's
Speaker 1: really good of this current season. I know I've been
Speaker 1: shitting on this current season a little bit, but this
Speaker 1: episode I just watched this morning at five thirty am
Speaker 1: when I couldn't go back to sleep, was really good.
Speaker 1: And it's called A Better Person. That's the episode, and
Speaker 1: I really liked it. I'm not done. I I'm like
Speaker 1: five minutes from the end, but because you know, my
Speaker 1: kids woke up and ruined my life. So the Emmy
Speaker 1: says he's got some info. He's working on a genetic profile.
Speaker 1: He can't determine cause of death definitively, but maybe it
Speaker 1: was a skull fracture and water washed away most of
Speaker 1: the evidence. But they do have all of what he
Speaker 1: calls meta data, which is like the overalls, the sneaker souls,
Speaker 1: the watch band, like all these possessions that were with
Speaker 1: the bones and says it's poss and you know, Rollins
Speaker 1: is like, is it possible she was down there since
Speaker 1: two thousand and one and he goes it is and
Speaker 1: then he wheels out the kicker, which is a tiny
Speaker 1: baby skeleton of a fetus twenty to twenty four weeks,
Speaker 1: and Velasco goes field Bones like in this dumb fucking voice,
Speaker 1: and then it's like, yeah, she was pregnant, and that's
Speaker 1: a big done done, and that's the end of the act.
Speaker 1: So now we are talking to Aretha's family and her
Speaker 1: grandfather is like, oh, yeah, those scooters were so popular,
Speaker 1: because this is like why Aretha went into the park
Speaker 1: that night, because she'd left hers and her mother, Cora,
Speaker 1: who is an amazing actress. This woman is Cora is
Speaker 1: played by Nicki Micheau, and I thought she was so
Speaker 1: good in this episode. She's been an episode of Vieps,
Speaker 1: she's been in Six feet Under, she's in good trouble,
Speaker 1: she's got seventy two credits working and she's a great actress.
Speaker 1: And Rollin shows Cora a picture of the watch and
Speaker 1: she goes, I did give Aretha a watch like that
Speaker 1: for a good report card, and then they look really
Speaker 1: sad because it's starting to really look like that's her,
Speaker 1: and they're like, well, we need to make sure do
Speaker 1: you have anything with her DNA on it. So she
Speaker 1: takes them back to Aretha's old room and she's like,
Speaker 1: I always saw Aretha ran away.
Speaker 3: She'd been depressed. I thought I did something wrong.
Speaker 1: So it's like so sad, and then she gives the
Speaker 1: detective some of Aretha's baby teeth that she kept in
Speaker 1: a little baggy. So now now Live is talking to
Speaker 1: Libby and she's like, I haven't talked to my mom
Speaker 1: in months. She blamed herself for all the Henry stuff,
Speaker 1: like so much that I started to believe her. So
Speaker 1: I think she just needed some time away from her mom.
Speaker 1: But she's still her mom had her number for emergencies,
Speaker 1: so when her mom's receptionist called and said get to
Speaker 1: the office right away, she thought it was a huge
Speaker 1: problem and ran to her mom's office and that's where
Speaker 1: the cops were ready to bring her in. And she
Speaker 1: says she's never been arrested before, she's a first timer.
Speaker 1: And they're like, so, what's up with the different identities,
Speaker 1: And she's like after my I just didn't want to
Speaker 1: be Libby anymore. I have a different identity for everyone
Speaker 1: I date. And she's like, it's not like I make
Speaker 1: a habit out of this.
Speaker 3: I just wanted to.
Speaker 1: Feel taken care of. Bijean was safe. I shouldn't have
Speaker 1: taken the watches. I wonder why she did take the watches.
Speaker 1: It sounds like this guy gave her a lot of stuff.
Speaker 3: I don't know. I really don't know.
Speaker 1: An impulsed yeah, but she says, the only time I've
Speaker 1: ever given my DNA is when SPU did my rape kit.
Speaker 1: So now things are starting to get really fishy. So
Speaker 1: now we've got boss Lady Lives strolling into major case squads,
Speaker 1: obviously in a long ass coat, looking like a badass,
Speaker 1: and she goes right up to Detective Zabo and she
Speaker 1: introduces herself, and Detective Zabo's.
Speaker 3: Like, I know who you are, why are you here?
Speaker 3: And Live asks her, I.
Speaker 1: Kind of want to know how you id'd Libby Blandon
Speaker 1: and Sabo basically pulls the like I don't come down
Speaker 1: to where you work and ask how you put rapists
Speaker 1: away thing, which you know.
Speaker 3: It's like, bitch, you're caught. You got to say how
Speaker 3: you found out soon?
Speaker 1: But Benson's like, look, this doesn't have to be a
Speaker 1: pissing content and Zabo's like, great, let's not make it
Speaker 1: one now, if you'll excuse me, I've got d D
Speaker 1: Five's like, she really is not scared of live at all,
Speaker 1: and you know, in real life these two are friends,
Speaker 1: So I kind of love this dynamic. And now Liv
Speaker 1: is talking to Careesi about Zabo and she's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: she's a real ray of sunshine, and she's fucking defensive
Speaker 1: as hell and lives wondering is it possible that she
Speaker 1: accessed Libby's rape kit to get the DNA? And Caresee's
Speaker 1: like absolutely not, no way, Like that place is rules
Speaker 1: on rules on protocol. A cop would never be able
Speaker 1: to access a victim's DNA. He goes, that's inconceivable, and
Speaker 1: liv says, okay, well, I put in a call to
Speaker 1: the General Council at the OCME anyway, And the OCEME
Speaker 1: is the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner, so they
Speaker 1: refer to it a lot in this episode. Meanwhile, Velasco
Speaker 1: and Rollins are finding out that the bones do belong
Speaker 1: to Aretha, so we have solved this case. That was
Speaker 1: Aretha and what we've sold the identification excuse me, not
Speaker 1: the case, and the fetus was a boy. The DNA
Speaker 1: of the U I guess the paternal DNA was not
Speaker 1: in codis and not a familial match, but he was
Speaker 1: African American. So they go tell the family and Garland
Speaker 1: goes too, and the mom is so sad. She goes,
Speaker 1: she's been in the water all this time, all alone.
Speaker 1: It's so sad. She's like, I want her breaking. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like really really because like all these years you
Speaker 1: thought you did something wrong, twenty years of thinking maybe
Speaker 1: your daughter's out there alive but just choosing not to
Speaker 1: talk to you. But the whole time she's been blocks
Speaker 1: away from you, dead like horrible. And so she goes,
Speaker 1: I want her remains. I want to bury her, and
Speaker 1: they also then decide to break her the news to
Speaker 1: her that Aretha was five months pregnant, and Cora is
Speaker 1: not hearing that.
Speaker 3: She's like, that can't be true. She was just a baby.
Speaker 1: She starts to get really upset, and her dad jumps
Speaker 1: in and is like, I think you guys got to
Speaker 1: go now, and they're like, okay, but we do need
Speaker 1: to talk to you later and she's like. He's like, okay,
Speaker 1: but for now, get the hell out of here. So
Speaker 1: now Live is doing a walk and talk with the
Speaker 1: General Counsel for the OCME and she's like, there's no
Speaker 1: way a victim's profile was actually, it's just impossible. Victim
Speaker 1: DNA is never uploaded to any database. So they go
Speaker 1: talk to this dude named Harry and he admits that
Speaker 1: he fully ran the DNA from the Crime against the
Speaker 1: Victims of assaults in twenty twenty one and found her
Speaker 1: file and the case was still open pending trial.
Speaker 3: The General counsel is pissed.
Speaker 1: She's like, you didn't check with a supervisor and he's like, well,
Speaker 1: the request came from major case, not some shitty, low
Speaker 1: level detective. And now he's like it's not illegal, and
Speaker 1: Lives like yeah, because no one thought to create a
Speaker 1: law about something so fucking unethical, like no one would
Speaker 1: do that, And the General Council is like, this is
Speaker 1: against our protocol. We will be launching an investigation, and
Speaker 1: Lives like yes, So hold the DA's office and he's
Speaker 1: like and she goes, please tell me you've only done
Speaker 1: this this one time, and his face says fuck no,
Speaker 1: I do this all the time. So at the precinct,
Speaker 1: Cora comes in to talk to the detectives and she's
Speaker 1: like she's gotten herself under control now and she's ready
Speaker 1: to talk about like figuring out who did this to Aretha.
Speaker 1: But she's like, she didn't have any boyfriends. She was
Speaker 1: a good girl. She was all about school. If she
Speaker 1: had a boyfriend, I would have known about it. And
Speaker 1: she said her grandfather, Aretha's grandfather, was always watching her
Speaker 1: while Kora worked, so you know, it wasn't like she
Speaker 1: had was a latch key kid with like all this
Speaker 1: time where she could have been entertaining boyfriends. Now we're
Speaker 1: talking to the grandpa and he's remembering nine to eleven.
Speaker 1: He's like, oh, I remember us watching the news all
Speaker 1: day and we thought maybe Aretha went down there to help, like,
Speaker 1: and he says she always came home after school. Sometimes
Speaker 1: boys came over, but it was just to study. And
Speaker 1: he said he was always there, but you know, sometimes
Speaker 1: a guy has to take a walk, and so if
Speaker 1: he ever left the house, Red was there. And they're like,
Speaker 1: who the hell is Red? And the grandfather's like, oh, oh,
Speaker 1: I better not say anything else. I don't want Coora
Speaker 1: getting pissed at me. So we find out later that
Speaker 1: Red was Coorra's boyfriend and that he would occasionally be
Speaker 1: alone in the house with Aretha. But there is nothing
Speaker 1: in the police report about a boyfriend. So now they
Speaker 1: ask Cora about it. Coora is upset when they asked
Speaker 1: her about Red. They're like, She's like, who told you
Speaker 1: about that? And then she's like, this doesn't bring Aretha back?
Speaker 1: And then she you know, pulls it together and is like, Okay,
Speaker 1: Red was married, we were having an affair, and I
Speaker 1: didn't want to drag him and his whole family through
Speaker 1: this whole thing. He was an ex ray technician at
Speaker 1: the hospital where I worked as a nurse. After Aretha's disappearance,
Speaker 1: he moved to Uniondale, which is also on Long Island.
Speaker 1: We're doing a lot of visiting to Long Island this episode.
Speaker 1: So now Benson is meeting with TRILD Division Chief Lorraine Maxwell.
Speaker 1: And this is Betty Buckley. She's been recurring in a
Speaker 1: few of these more recent seasons. And I didn't know this,
Speaker 1: but she is a Broadway legend. I don't even know
Speaker 1: if we've ever talked about this. She won a Tony
Speaker 1: Award for originating the role of Grizabella in the original Cats.
Speaker 1: So big, big Broadway baby here, and.
Speaker 2: You could tell she's highly educated, she's rich, she's powerful,
Speaker 2: she's thoughtful.
Speaker 3: She went to Barnard, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Yes, totally Trial division chief. I don't really know what
Speaker 1: that means, but it seems like she's well compensated, and
Speaker 1: she's just as disgusted about these tactics that were used
Speaker 1: to track down Libby. They found two other cases where
Speaker 1: there were convictions a kid who was assaulted at age
Speaker 1: nine and then later picked up at age seventeen in
Speaker 1: the Bronx and convicted of carjacking, and then a sex
Speaker 1: worker who was raped two years earlier and then was
Speaker 1: recently convicted of forgery and wire fraud. And then now
Speaker 1: there's Libby. And they're like, we did find that all
Speaker 1: six of the breaches in the system were made by
Speaker 1: this same guy, Harry Kent, and they were all at
Speaker 1: the request of Detective Zabo. Okay, so liv Is like, yeah,
Speaker 1: Henry should have stood trial for Libby's rape, but he
Speaker 1: got himself back into the mental hospital and Libby's probably
Speaker 1: been spiraling, and Cariesy's like, yeah, but the victim did
Speaker 1: id her she had watches like she had the watches,
Speaker 1: and Benson's like, I don't give a fuck. This set's
Speaker 1: a dangerous precedent. The whole case needs to be thrown out.
Speaker 1: And Maxwell's like, I'll call the Queen's DA and I said,
Speaker 1: I wrote, I'm not sure how Queen's is involved here,
Speaker 1: but I know it's because that's where the crime took
Speaker 1: place of the theft of the watches. Velasco and Rollins
Speaker 1: are now back on Long Island talking to Red, Cora's
Speaker 1: old boyfriend, and he's sad to hear about Aretha. He's like,
Speaker 1: after she disappeared and then it was nine to eleven,
Speaker 1: I just wanted to get my shit together, so I
Speaker 1: moved my family out of the city to Long Island.
Speaker 1: And he said Aretha was really smart. She wanted to
Speaker 1: be a doctor. She was all about schoolwork. He offers
Speaker 1: to give his DNA as long as his wife and
Speaker 1: kids don't find out. So he really doesn't seem like
Speaker 1: the guy if he's like so willing to come forward
Speaker 1: with DNA and talk to the cops.
Speaker 3: And he says, tell Cora, my heart goes out.
Speaker 1: I haven't start I haven't stopped thinking about her and
Speaker 1: Nina And they're like yeah, and they're like, who the
Speaker 1: fuck is Nina? And they're like, Aretha's little sister. She'd
Speaker 1: be pushing thirty at this point, is what Red tells them. So, now,
Speaker 1: why is Cora leaving so many details out of this?
Speaker 1: Live is on the phone with Rollins and thinks it's
Speaker 1: weird that Cora hasn't mentioned Nina, and then you know,
Speaker 1: they figure it out and then she hangs up, and
Speaker 1: right as she hangs up, we see Detective Zabo blowing
Speaker 1: into the precinct like a hurricane and she's like, you got.
Speaker 3: Some nerve, Captain.
Speaker 1: Everyone's on my ass, but thank god, my captain has
Speaker 1: my back. And then she's like you're gonna need it.
Speaker 1: You on ethical bitch, And then she she's like, you
Speaker 1: violated NYPDS protocols about victim privacy and lives, Like, do
Speaker 1: you know how hard it is to get a victim
Speaker 1: to come forward and submit to an invasive rape kit,
Speaker 1: Like the least we can do is not use their
Speaker 1: DNA against them. And then she's like, well, tell that
Speaker 1: to the mother of a twenty five year old boy
Speaker 1: shot during a carjacking and live like shuts the door
Speaker 1: to the office, and this is where we get the
Speaker 1: real fucking tea. She goes, why don't you do some
Speaker 1: actual investigating instead of trading sexual favors for shortcuts to
Speaker 1: the DNA database.
Speaker 3: Done? Done.
Speaker 1: She's been fucking Harry Kent, this DNA guy, to get
Speaker 1: him to look up DNA in her cases, which is wild.
Speaker 1: And then Sabo turns it around on Benson. So maybe
Speaker 1: she knows some shit about Benson's past, because she goes,
Speaker 1: you're scolding me for doing favors for people I'm involved with.
Speaker 3: That's rich.
Speaker 1: So she's obviously talking about Dean Winter's aka Cassidy because
Speaker 1: you know, in a previous episode she was like kind
Speaker 1: of housing Cassidy while he was on the lamb for
Speaker 1: allegedly killing his molester, which he did not do, but
Speaker 1: he was.
Speaker 3: You know, a suspect.
Speaker 1: And so I guess everybody knows that about Benson in
Speaker 1: the cop world.
Speaker 3: And it's like, yeah, so she's fucking the nrty lack guy.
Speaker 2: They always been the rules at sv you know, for Simon,
Speaker 2: she did a lot like.
Speaker 1: For Simon, for Kathleen. I mean, they're all doing shit
Speaker 1: for family. I mean, if I had a cop relative,
Speaker 1: i'd be like, hello, parking tickets, like come on.
Speaker 3: So like I got.
Speaker 2: Another fucking I got more money that I have to
Speaker 2: pay for my fucking towing that happened months ago. Oh
Speaker 2: why yes, because when they took my car, my registration
Speaker 2: was expired, so I got an additional ticket for that,
Speaker 2: even though I updated it. But I haven't been home,
Speaker 2: so it's now instead of ninety dollars, it's like two
Speaker 2: hundred and seventy dollars.
Speaker 3: But like, fuck everyone, fuck la, fuck cars.
Speaker 2: I just like, I just want some I want to
Speaker 2: live like mister big you know, I want baba.
Speaker 3: I just want like driver, Yeah, I want a driver. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I want to be like Bethenny Frankel.
Speaker 2: I want to be crying hysterically and the man driving
Speaker 2: me around going, oh, miss Lisa, it's okay.
Speaker 1: And he's your best and only friend. Yeah, when you're
Speaker 1: going through a tragedy, okay. So anyway, Benson's like, fuck you, Sabo,
Speaker 1: I've never put a rape victim in jeopardy, and she goes, oh,
Speaker 1: you've never put your finger on the scale for a
Speaker 1: former partner or an iab rat so I don't know
Speaker 1: if she's bringing up maloney there too, because.
Speaker 3: I'm borrow, yeah, borrow or tomorrow.
Speaker 1: So it's like they're shit going on, and it's like,
Speaker 1: damn this bitch ros.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot of nonsense at SV.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this bitch knows lives business like she knows everything.
Speaker 3: But it's so different.
Speaker 2: This is like all stuff for this is like you
Speaker 2: are violating victims rights and privacy and going against the
Speaker 2: like Fourth Amendment rights to close cases instead of actually
Speaker 2: do I love what she goes, how about you do
Speaker 2: some investigating Like that's my favorite.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's like, go do some investigating, get some subpoenas,
Speaker 1: like actually figure this out, Like you're kind of you're
Speaker 1: just doing it for shortcut, because like you found this
Speaker 1: girl in twelve hours, you could have maybe found her
Speaker 1: other ways, you know anyway.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 2: I Also, that guy wouldn't have called the cops if
Speaker 2: he thought Libby had done it, yeah, because he likes
Speaker 2: He probably wouldn't have You're right, he probably would have
Speaker 2: just tried to get in touch with her and said, babe,
Speaker 2: come back, I want the watches back, but I forgive you.
Speaker 2: So after she makes that accusation about the former partner
Speaker 2: and the ib rat lives, like, get the fuck out
Speaker 2: of my office, and they keep screaming at each other,
Speaker 2: and it's like a full fucking showdown. Like I don't
Speaker 2: think I've seen live have a back and forth with
Speaker 2: like another person like this or not in a while.
Speaker 1: Like it's a great showdown. And then she slams the
Speaker 1: door in Zabo's face and she's like bye, and so
Speaker 1: that's the end of.
Speaker 3: Actuating she sucks Zabo.
Speaker 2: But like it's usually Surproicoh, it's usually some guy with
Speaker 2: eyebrows and it's really annoying and enraging. But this was
Speaker 2: like entertaining. This is entertainment. This was like such a
Speaker 2: good scene. You could tell their chemistry. I was obsessed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And so h top of A four, they're
Speaker 1: talking to Korra and she says, well, the cops never
Speaker 1: asked me if I had another kid. And Nina was
Speaker 1: upset about her sister and she was crying, so I
Speaker 1: sent her to a neighbor's house. I didn't want the
Speaker 1: cops to get her like more upset. And it's like,
Speaker 1: seems weird. There wasn't like a picture of the other
Speaker 1: girl in the house. Like the cops just never knew
Speaker 1: there was another child residing at the residence.
Speaker 3: That's weird.
Speaker 1: So they say, we need to talk to Nina, and
Speaker 1: Cora and her dad are like, naw, we don't fuck
Speaker 1: with her anymore. She chose drugs, she chose life on
Speaker 1: the street. And the mom says, I haven't seen her
Speaker 1: in five years. I already lost one daughter. I didn't
Speaker 1: want to watch another just fade away in front of me.
Speaker 1: So sad, but also she could be traumatized about her
Speaker 1: missing sister. So they go sorry to her, and she goes,
Speaker 1: don't be I ran out of tears for her a
Speaker 1: long time ago, is what Cora says about Nina.
Speaker 3: And then she's brutal. What a sad life?
Speaker 1: Yeah, and she she says she always thought that they'd
Speaker 1: find Nina before they found Aretha. So she's really sad.
Speaker 1: So they look up Nina's record. She's been in and
Speaker 1: out of jail, prostitution, possession, and now she's in a
Speaker 1: halfway house. So they go there and the guy there
Speaker 1: says that Nina's been doing really well and that she's
Speaker 1: been working her program, but that then her grandfather came
Speaker 1: by to visit earlier that day and Nina seemed really
Speaker 1: upset and they went out for she went out for
Speaker 1: a smoke and she never came back, and he's scared
Speaker 1: that she's out trying to score. So now, sorry, it's
Speaker 1: still confusing with going back between the two stories. Libby
Speaker 1: now is at Cariese's office and she's like, what do
Speaker 1: you mean, Like, why is my DNA out there? And
Speaker 1: they're trying to kind of explain it to her, and
Speaker 1: she's like, I should just plead guilty.
Speaker 3: I did it.
Speaker 1: I don't want to be like Henry Messner and like
Speaker 1: play the system and lives Like, okay, you can make
Speaker 1: restitution for what you did, but like, we can't set
Speaker 1: this as a precedent that people can find DNA this way.
Speaker 1: And they're like, well tell it to the Queen's DA
Speaker 1: because the Queen's granjury just handed down an indictment. So
Speaker 1: now at court and Queens Libby pleads not guilty and
Speaker 1: is roward. Detective Zabo is in court following up on
Speaker 1: her shit. She walks out and runs into Benson and
Speaker 1: Maxwell as they're walking in, and bet Maxwell's like, oh, Hi,
Speaker 1: what's up. We're gonna of you all of your arrests
Speaker 1: and you'll be hearing from us. And she's like Zabo
Speaker 1: goes glad you have the time for that, and then
Speaker 1: walks out. I mean, she sucks, but she's a great
Speaker 1: like she gives good attitude, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like if she was on you'd want her on your side,
Speaker 1: I think. So the judge is so pumped to see Maxwell.
Speaker 1: He's like, he's like, Lilian Maxwell, to what do I owe?
Speaker 1: It's not the US open like he loves this woman,
Speaker 1: and she's like, I've been trying to get in touch
Speaker 1: with the DA of Queens DA DraCos and the judge
Speaker 1: is like, oh, I can put in a call.
Speaker 3: All you have to do is take me to a
Speaker 3: steak dinner.
Speaker 1: And I like seeing this, uh you know, this handshaking
Speaker 1: going on with these weird judges. So they go see
Speaker 1: the DA DraCos and she's like, what's up.
Speaker 3: What do you want?
Speaker 1: And they're like, we want you to drop this case
Speaker 1: and she's like why the girl's guilty of a felony
Speaker 1: and Thenson's like, yes, but this detective should never have
Speaker 1: access to the DNA, and Lilian's like every subsequent finding
Speaker 1: is tainted and the DA goes under what law and
Speaker 1: she's like, I have sympathy for rape victims, but they
Speaker 1: don't get a get out of jail free card. And
Speaker 1: she's like, if I drop this one, where does it stop?
Speaker 1: And it's like live is like what message does it
Speaker 1: zend to rate victims to know that their DNA could
Speaker 1: be used against them? This will completely chill reporting and
Speaker 1: set us back decades. She goes, well, then you should
Speaker 1: be fixing your problem with the OCME, like, I guess,
Speaker 1: and they're like, we're not dropping this, and she's like,
Speaker 1: well't me neither, bitch.
Speaker 3: So I don't know what you want to do.
Speaker 1: And then Maxwell leans in and goes, you're not on
Speaker 1: a moral high ground here. This is quicksand and they
Speaker 1: walk out and the DA does look nervous. She looks like, fuck,
Speaker 1: maybe I shouldn't have put this all into getting like
Speaker 1: the watches, like it's watch theft and the watches have
Speaker 1: been returned, like this seems like an.
Speaker 3: Easy case to drop.
Speaker 1: Velasco and Rollins are now at this you know, sketchy building,
Speaker 1: questioning a dealer about Nina and he goes, she didn't
Speaker 1: have the cash. So she's out trying to do sex
Speaker 1: work to make money for it for drugs. So then
Speaker 1: they find her and she is is, you know, just
Speaker 1: walking away from a car or whatever, and they're like
Speaker 1: flash their badges and she's like, I was just giving
Speaker 1: that guy directions and then they're like, no, we need
Speaker 1: to talk to you about Aretha. So in the next scene,
Speaker 1: Nina's with them in the precinct and she's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: my grandfather told me they found Aretha.
Speaker 3: I thought it was another one of his lies.
Speaker 1: And then so they're like, we told Cora about how
Speaker 1: Aretha was pregnant, and Nina's like, why'd you tell her that?
Speaker 1: Like I knew she was pregnant, but I didn't want
Speaker 1: my mom to find out and her my grandfather said
Speaker 1: it would kill her, and it's like, so he knew
Speaker 1: she was pregnant. Like everyone knew this girl was pregnant,
Speaker 1: except for Cora. So then we find out through a
Speaker 1: Garland Creesy walk and talk that the grandfather is a
Speaker 1: match for the fetal bones Done done, so he's not
Speaker 1: Cora's biological dad, and he refused a lawyer, so maybe
Speaker 1: he's ready to confess. And now we're talking to this
Speaker 1: grandpa that we've been seeing the whole time, and he
Speaker 1: admits that when his girlfriend told him she was pregnant,
Speaker 1: he had doubts that it what might not be his
Speaker 1: child because he was in the National Guard and he
Speaker 1: was out of town all the time. But he said,
Speaker 1: I stepped up the right thing. I married her and
Speaker 1: I treated Cora like my own child. So this explains
Speaker 1: why the DNA doesn't match. So then he admits that
Speaker 1: Aretha dying was an accident. When she told him that
Speaker 1: she was pregnant, he said, you cannot have this baby,
Speaker 1: and she said she was going to tell Coora her mom,
Speaker 1: and he tried to reason with her. He says he
Speaker 1: got angry. He shook her and she fell against the
Speaker 1: tub and hit her head. He did not mean to
Speaker 1: kill her. He loved her. She was the light of
Speaker 1: his life. And then he goes and us together. She
Speaker 1: was not my grandchild, so it was not a sin
Speaker 1: against God. And it's like she was thirteen, you fucking
Speaker 1: freak like and you are by all accounts her grandfather like.
Speaker 3: And I like that.
Speaker 2: It's like shaking sent sense to her and the senses
Speaker 2: don't tell your mother that you.
Speaker 3: Are like what, yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Mean the mental gymnastics of this man, and I hope
Speaker 2: he dies a terrible death in prison.
Speaker 3: Right, So he's gonna die and ice cold.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just scary to think that you are living
Speaker 2: with a person that's supposed to care about you for
Speaker 2: years and years and this is who they are deep down,
Speaker 2: just hiding their monstrousness.
Speaker 3: It's scary. Yeah, completely, so awful, manipulating everyone.
Speaker 2: Everyone's life's gone to shit, everyone's miserable around you, someone
Speaker 2: is dead. You don't think you've done anything wrong. You're
Speaker 2: the sister's a drug addict, like, everyone's having all this issues,
Speaker 2: and you're just like, what, I.
Speaker 3: Didn't do anything.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's not a sin against God. It's like
Speaker 1: you've done something illegal against the law. You've done something
Speaker 1: in many way two things, killing her and raping her
Speaker 1: are both illegal. But if it's not a sin against
Speaker 1: the Lord, we can live with it.
Speaker 2: That's this kind of person that, Yeah, I forgot that
Speaker 2: the Bible lets you like rape kids and stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So we we find out he's gonna die in jail,
Speaker 1: so they're gonna go tell Kora. As for the DNA situation,
Speaker 1: Maxwell's like, I think I got it figured out and
Speaker 1: then she tells Live this like crazy. She goes, well,
Speaker 1: I had dinner with that judge who's obsessed with me.
Speaker 1: He got sauced on too many drinks and told her
Speaker 1: that he asked Mausam maccarr's character to request a bench
Speaker 1: trial for Libby, and then he's totally going to find
Speaker 1: her not guilty.
Speaker 3: You know, a bench trial.
Speaker 1: You know this, Lisa, But just in case anybody forgets,
Speaker 1: is I think when you put it all in the
Speaker 1: judge's hands. So I think we saw this in the
Speaker 1: episode Poison with Tom Scarett. The woman knew that he
Speaker 1: favored her, so she asked for a bench trial, and
Speaker 1: so he's going to find her not guilty, and then
Speaker 1: he's got some ideas about her other convictions as well,
Speaker 1: because he's got the scalding hot tea on Da DraCos
Speaker 1: whose husband was cheating on her. So she cut and
Speaker 1: pasted this judge's signature on orders for a wiretap, and
Speaker 1: he just knew about that, and he's just been sitting
Speaker 1: on it. So now it's like, you know, he basically
Speaker 1: forced her hand on this.
Speaker 3: And so now we click on the TV.
Speaker 1: As always on this show, we click on the TV
Speaker 1: right as a you know, a press conference is going
Speaker 1: on and the DA from Queen's DraCos is making a
Speaker 1: statement and she's sitting there. She's got SABO on one
Speaker 1: side of her, she's got the OCME General counsel on
Speaker 1: the other side, and she's going, we found a huge
Speaker 1: flaw in the system and we're going to fix it.
Speaker 3: And it's wild.
Speaker 1: Like Benson's like, you're going to fix the flaw that
Speaker 1: you created and then like wanted to ignore until you've
Speaker 1: got your fucking ass handed to you for being a psycho.
Speaker 1: And so now she's crusading about making this practice illegal
Speaker 1: and like Benson's like, wow, that is hootspa.
Speaker 3: But either way, it got done.
Speaker 1: And Betty Buckley's character goes, I've learned the best way
Speaker 1: to get anything done is to let other people take
Speaker 1: the credit.
Speaker 3: And she ain't wrong.
Speaker 2: Another Yeah, that's a that's a really good lesson too.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, I know, we you and I have been
Speaker 1: talking about things where we're like we need to make
Speaker 1: people think that they thought of it themselves, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like you have to kind of play
Speaker 1: into people's ego a little bit sometimes.
Speaker 3: To get what you want.
Speaker 1: Okay, so in the final scene, Cora and Nina are
Speaker 1: like walking hand in hand, like arm in arm, like
Speaker 1: thank god they're back reunited at least, like, you know,
Speaker 1: the family's not completely shattered. And she's like over the
Speaker 1: whole thing with her father who's not really her father.
Speaker 1: She's like, it's over now. All that matters is that
Speaker 1: it's me and Nina. We're going to have a service
Speaker 1: for Aretha. And then they they you know, walk off,
Speaker 1: and we hope that at least they have some closure
Speaker 1: and can work on their relationship and that hopefully Nina
Speaker 1: gets her life on track. And Garland says to Rollins
Speaker 1: and Careesy like this is kind of case. Does not
Speaker 1: make me miss being a cop. And then he's like,
Speaker 1: godspeed guy's checulator. And then Releasi go arm in arm
Speaker 1: off into a beautiful New York day And that's Dick
Speaker 1: Wolf Bibbie.
Speaker 3: But a great rate episode. Yeah, really good.
Speaker 2: And I so, how are the two cases related, just
Speaker 2: like DNA and evidence and finding safe mistakes in the system,
Speaker 2: Like what why did they connect? Why do they make
Speaker 2: these two oh tangled strands of justice?
Speaker 3: Because I thought that was DNA?
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I think it is because I think DNA
Speaker 1: is eventually what busts the grandfather, and it's like it
Speaker 1: is a very important part of Aretha's case as well.
Speaker 1: So I kind of wish there had been more of
Speaker 1: like a discovery of that, Like there wasn't much of
Speaker 1: a discovery, which just like, oh, so it turns out
Speaker 1: he's not really the dad, like and the DNA matches,
Speaker 1: like we just kind of bypassed that, like that was
Speaker 1: more of a tell, don't show moment.
Speaker 3: But yeah, this is a great episode.
Speaker 1: And sometimes I don't like the ones where there's three
Speaker 1: stories going on at the same time, but two it
Speaker 1: kind of works for me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so we can handle two. I can follow, you
Speaker 3: can follow an A and a B.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I know that this is based I've read
Speaker 1: very little on what this is based on. So I'm
Speaker 1: looking forward to you telling me so we will be
Speaker 1: r B.
Speaker 2: So this is obviously really current since it was also
Speaker 2: a new episode, but it is hard to research things
Speaker 2: that are truly happening within months from today, like a
Speaker 2: few months before, like all kind of active. It's pretty
Speaker 2: interesting and just a different experience. But so this is
Speaker 2: based on two crimes. We're going to focus on the
Speaker 2: DNA part since the other crime has been covered in
Speaker 2: a few other SVU episodes, so we will talk about
Speaker 2: it one day, but we're just going to focus on
Speaker 2: the DNA psycho situation being used of victims. So, in
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen, a victim who is in San Francisco had
Speaker 2: her DNA collected and stored in the system in a
Speaker 2: domestic violence and sexual assault case. Jane Doe, and she
Speaker 2: will be referred to that throughout. Her identity has not
Speaker 2: been revealed. She told police in twenty sixteen that she
Speaker 2: had been raped by her mother's boyfriend, who also then
Speaker 2: killed her mother. Doe and her sister were being sexually
Speaker 2: abused by their mother's boyfriend and that someone from her
Speaker 2: school reported it to the police, and the girl and
Speaker 2: her sibling were taken out of the home, which prompted
Speaker 2: the boyfriend to confront her mother about the allegations and
Speaker 2: then he straight up fucking murdered her.
Speaker 3: The officer, and I know, the.
Speaker 2: Officer who investigated the sex abuse came to the funeral
Speaker 2: to apologize, And that's like very Elliott Stabler.
Speaker 3: Nobody needs you at a funeral.
Speaker 2: You can schedule an appointment in a week or two
Speaker 2: like you're supposed to protect that family. You did the
Speaker 2: wrong thing. You took them like you did not protect everybody.
Speaker 2: And the funeral is not the place to get forgiveness
Speaker 2: unless you're there just just shickley mourn, like fuck this guy.
Speaker 2: So for a long time, the woman understood and knew
Speaker 2: the police was never there for her best interests. And
Speaker 2: then her DNA was using an unrelated property climb slash theft,
Speaker 2: slash burglary. It's kind of unclear what it is, and
Speaker 2: every source kind of says something different. Her DNA was
Speaker 2: in the police Department crime lab database and was tied
Speaker 2: to a burglary in late twenty twenty one, years after
Speaker 2: her twenty sixteen assaults. She was arrested in December twenty
Speaker 2: twenty one and charged with burglary, slash, retail theft, slash proper.
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 1: That it sounds like shoplifting. I'll be honest, Like it
Speaker 1: sounds like shoplifting. It's like not the worst crime.
Speaker 2: No, And she ended up having was held in jail
Speaker 2: for several months because she could not afford bail.
Speaker 1: Fuck you are you serious? Yes, yeah, for burglary, retail theft.
Speaker 1: This is why we need to get rid of cash
Speaker 1: bail Ugh.
Speaker 2: She said, according to the San Francisco Chronicle, that the
Speaker 2: incident made her feel like she was reliving her trauma
Speaker 2: all over again and reliving all that stuff. This obviously
Speaker 2: caused a national outcry from advocates, law enforcement, legal experts,
Speaker 2: and lawmakers, since this could affect victim's willingness to come
Speaker 2: forward to authorities after being assaulted.
Speaker 3: They very well covered this in the episode.
Speaker 2: Already we know that eighty percent of like sex crimes
Speaker 2: do not even get reported at all. It's so invasive,
Speaker 2: it's so fucked up. Rape kits don't get tested. It's
Speaker 2: it's already so rare and brave that people come forward,
Speaker 2: and then to have this happen is just pretty horrible.
Speaker 2: And it also violates the victim's Fourth Amendment rights, which
Speaker 2: protects people from unreasonable searches and seizures. And there is
Speaker 2: already a federal law that prohibits the inclusion of victims
Speaker 2: DNA and the National Combined DNA Index system. Yet the
Speaker 2: San Francisco Police Department Crime Lab director said that this
Speaker 2: was standard practice. Dan Crane, a biology professor at Wright
Speaker 2: State University in Dayton, Ohio.
Speaker 3: Whoop.
Speaker 2: I don't know why, but our friend went to college
Speaker 2: in Dayton, not even at that school. Okay, But he
Speaker 2: said even with the federal law that in general, there's
Speaker 2: a lack of state and local laws across the country
Speaker 2: that restrict what can be done with local DNA databases.
Speaker 2: Most law enforcement, he says, act like stamp collectors when
Speaker 2: it comes to collecting DNA, and the more people they
Speaker 2: can get in the database, the happier they are.
Speaker 1: This would be like a munch Field day if munch
Speaker 1: was still on the squad, like you know, he was
Speaker 1: so against the whole like collecting our DNA so they
Speaker 1: can use it for other shit, like big brother of
Speaker 1: it all.
Speaker 3: You know, too bad, he's gone, too bad. He's living
Speaker 3: a life in France. But I'm just saying, like, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I like the idea of the stamp collecting
Speaker 2: because it's kind of like, you know, they won't try
Speaker 2: cases if they can't win because they care about their
Speaker 2: record or they you know, it's just like all about
Speaker 2: them and it's not about anyone else. Or even like
Speaker 2: how cops have to go like ticket people at the
Speaker 2: end of the month to get their quotas everything is
Speaker 2: like about them and their and their stats and their
Speaker 2: information and how much DNA can we get because we're
Speaker 2: lazy fucks who can't do our job anyways.
Speaker 3: District Attorney CHESSA.
Speaker 2: Budin Boudin whatever is the benson of this whole situation,
Speaker 2: but is a man. And I had to go through
Speaker 2: my notes and change the whole way through. I was
Speaker 2: fortunately was recalled.
Speaker 3: Yes, I was. Yeah, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: I didn't know if you were going to get to that,
Speaker 1: but it's such bullshit. I've read a lot about that.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I definitely thought it was a woman the whole time
Speaker 2: because of how good he was and caring. And then
Speaker 2: I was in his name, and then I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: that is a man. He has been recalled in. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we'll get to it. So she was searching through see,
Speaker 2: I wrote she. So he was searching through hundreds of
Speaker 2: pages of evidence against a woman who had been charged
Speaker 2: with this felony property crime. But after learning the source
Speaker 2: of the DNA evidence, Boodin dropped the charges. Bo was
Speaker 2: quoted saying that this treats victims like like evidence, not
Speaker 2: human beings. Shortly after this incident, the crime lab stopped
Speaker 2: the practice after receiving a complaint from the DA's office
Speaker 2: and changed its operating procedure to prevent the misuse of
Speaker 2: DNA in the future, because if police have access to data,
Speaker 2: they will find a way to search that data.
Speaker 3: Not they are not to be trusted.
Speaker 2: Our DNA is ways too sensitive to leave it for
Speaker 2: access by cops and prosecutors.
Speaker 3: On any whim that they decide.
Speaker 1: Yeah, not to mention they could like misuse it, like
Speaker 1: plant it, you know, like there's so many reasons why
Speaker 1: that should not be.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wasn't even thinking about that, and yeah, So
Speaker 2: August twenty twenty two, California lawmakers approved a bill that
Speaker 2: would prohibit using the DNA profiles police collect from sexual
Speaker 2: assault survivors and other victims for any purpose other than
Speaker 2: aiding and identifying the perpetrator and to differentiate between their
Speaker 2: DNA and the suspects. Senator Winers legislation to protect sexual
Speaker 2: assault victims DNA past the Assembly and it received well.
Speaker 2: One source set it received a unanimous vote, and then
Speaker 2: another source said that there was a single dissenting vote
Speaker 2: and it was from an assembly member Marie Waldron, Republican,
Speaker 2: San Diego County.
Speaker 3: So I don't know, but we can't be surprised.
Speaker 2: Not shocking, and it's so not surprising. And so I
Speaker 2: did read about San Diego and Orange County and they
Speaker 2: have wild DNA practices that ACLU and MUNCH types alike
Speaker 2: have been having a lot of issues with. So in
Speaker 2: San Diego police were stopping juveniles and only letting them
Speaker 2: leave after they end quotes consented to the collection of
Speaker 2: DNA from children.
Speaker 4: What.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was later outlawed, of course by California state law.
Speaker 2: But in San Diego they were just like bullying and
Speaker 2: stopping juveniles and being like, we're not letting you go
Speaker 2: unless you give us, unless we swab your mouth.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's like trying to it's just kind of
Speaker 1: trying to like create a full database of all people
Speaker 1: and all of our DNA, and I just find that
Speaker 1: that's too scary. There's some that just kids. There's too
Speaker 1: much room for misuse and mistreatment. You know, oh one
Speaker 1: Hondo in Orange.
Speaker 2: County, And I know that's not San Diego and has
Speaker 2: nothing to do with victims, but it's just like it's
Speaker 2: just so telling because it's also like super Republican y
Speaker 2: military air yet that are all about freedom and little government,
Speaker 2: and yet they're totally fine with taking people's DNAs against
Speaker 2: their well, you know.
Speaker 3: It's fucked up.
Speaker 2: So around Orange County they have a spit and a
Speaker 2: quip program where if people agree to provide a DNA
Speaker 2: sample for the local database, charges in petty misdemeanors will
Speaker 2: be dropped. The OC database has one hundred and fifty
Speaker 2: thousand people's DNA who would otherwise not have it, So
Speaker 2: just something to think about.
Speaker 1: It's so funny because it's like my dad never would
Speaker 1: get an easy pass and he'd be like, I don't
Speaker 1: want the government tracking where I'm going, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: you're such a loser, and like, get through tolls faster.
Speaker 3: No one is fucking tracking where you're going.
Speaker 1: But then like something like this, I'm like, yeah, the
Speaker 1: government shouldn't just have a bunch of loose DNA like
Speaker 1: to just know.
Speaker 2: So it's like if you don't pick up your dog's
Speaker 2: shit was one of the examples in the article, and
Speaker 2: you get in trouble for a petty misdemeanor, they're like,
Speaker 2: we'll drop it if you just let us have your DNA. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but I've also given my eyes to clear, so who
Speaker 2: am I?
Speaker 3: Who am I to judge? But your eyes are not
Speaker 3: a thing yet.
Speaker 1: I'm wondering, and we'll get into this when we do
Speaker 1: this episode. But like, you know, how they found the
Speaker 1: Golden State killer like partially through ancestry dot Com DNA.
Speaker 3: Like, I'm wondering how that's legal.
Speaker 1: Well, even though I do think let's find old serial
Speaker 1: killers that way, but I don't think let's like compel
Speaker 1: people's DNA.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Maine and Maryland have just did legislation about like
Speaker 2: ancestry shit, but and not how to use DNA or not.
Speaker 3: But yeah, you know, for a different fucking day. Right.
Speaker 2: So the bill that I just talked about was sponsored
Speaker 2: by both the DA's office and the Prosecutor's Alliance of California,
Speaker 2: as well as Black Women Revolt, which is a group
Speaker 2: that provides resources and focuses on anti domestic violence advocacy
Speaker 2: for black women. The only approved use of victims DNA
Speaker 2: is to identify the perp, and that is that September
Speaker 2: thirtieth of this year, twenty twenty two, the Governor of Cala,
Speaker 2: Gavin Newsom, approved the bill and it was filed with
Speaker 2: the Secretary of State and signed into law. And I
Speaker 2: was trying to I tried really hard to find what
Speaker 2: the laws are in all the different states, and I
Speaker 2: was not able to find it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it should be a federal law, really, but well
Speaker 3: it kind of is.
Speaker 2: The federal law exists of this banner of like that
Speaker 2: database is separate from that, but then like these local
Speaker 2: precincts just kind of because that means that like the
Speaker 2: federal stuff's for FBI and CODIS and like that stuff,
Speaker 2: and then these fuckers. But it's kind of how Benson said,
Speaker 2: They're like, we didn't have to make good law about
Speaker 2: it because this.
Speaker 3: Is so fucking we never thought anyone would fucking do it.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can.
Speaker 2: Actually track a bill, which it's a cute little website
Speaker 2: because I think about I'm just a bill from Schoolhouse RDE.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and so I like just like seeing.
Speaker 2: So the bill was intered in February twenty twenty two,
Speaker 2: which acted fast. You know, she committed the DNA was
Speaker 2: used to charge her in December twenty and twenty one,
Speaker 2: made it past the Senate, August past the Assembly, and
Speaker 2: September signed into law, so pretty quick. I don't know
Speaker 2: how other bills do it but just a cute little website.
Speaker 2: So just recently September twelfth, twenty twenty two, and PR
Speaker 2: reported that Jane Doe filed a lawsuit against the city,
Speaker 2: which I agree. The woman's attorney, a Dante Pointer, which
Speaker 2: sounds like a pasta, said to have PR. This is
Speaker 2: government overreach of the highest order, using the most unique
Speaker 2: and personal thing we have, our genetic code, without our knowledge,
Speaker 2: to try and connect us to crime.
Speaker 3: Agreed.
Speaker 2: What adds even more anger to this is how there's
Speaker 2: so many untested rape kits just sitting around, not used
Speaker 2: for their intended purpose, yet they found time to use.
Speaker 3: It against victims. Right, good point.
Speaker 2: So Pointer, let the New York Times know that the
Speaker 2: case against the man accused of sexually assaulting Jane Doe
Speaker 2: was ultimately dismissed. But that's hard for me since he
Speaker 2: killed her mother, so maybe he was just charged with
Speaker 2: murder but the sexual assault was dismissed or what. But
Speaker 2: it's I agree it should be able to be. But
Speaker 2: because it's a Jane Doe, we can't really find information.
Speaker 2: I don't know who this man is, I don't know
Speaker 2: who her mother is.
Speaker 1: I'm sure he went to jail for the murder and
Speaker 1: that like maybe there just wasn't evidence besides her word
Speaker 1: versus his and the sexual assault.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so it sounds like it was the sister
Speaker 1: too like that.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: But it's also the New York Times, So I believe
Speaker 2: the papers, you know, America's paper, but I just I
Speaker 2: don't know the paper of record. That's what that's the saying.
Speaker 2: My friend Fracks, she always goes the paper because when
Speaker 2: I when I got to be in the Times, she
Speaker 2: goes the Paper of Record. Yeah, like really really cute.
Speaker 2: But I for some reason said America's paper instead. But
Speaker 2: I meant that also. Since Boudin and Quotes was testing
Speaker 2: the public's willingness to support progressive district attorneys amid headlines
Speaker 2: for rising crime and was progressive, he was put under
Speaker 2: a recall, like kar said earlier, and is no longer
Speaker 2: the DA for San Francisco. He lost to Brooke Jenkins
Speaker 2: in June of this past year twenty twenty two. Since
Speaker 2: Brooke has taken over, arrests have gone up twenty percent,
Speaker 2: even though crime rates have not changed significantly, but about
Speaker 2: one hundred more arrests a month are being brought in
Speaker 2: and yeah, and at the end of the day, no
Speaker 2: matter what laws are set up, we have cops and
Speaker 2: labs self governing themselves and doing whatever they please with
Speaker 2: the info they have.
Speaker 3: And it's kind of fucked up. And that's it.
Speaker 1: I hate that he was recalled because I really feel
Speaker 1: like he wasn't given like a chance really, like I
Speaker 1: think he was only nominated a few years ago, and
Speaker 1: like he was not given a chance to San Francisco
Speaker 1: does have a crime problem, but like, look at how
Speaker 1: more arrest is not a deterrent to crime.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 2: And also they were saying, how like there's been a
Speaker 2: decrease in major vite like giant crimes, but crimes of
Speaker 2: petty petty like crimes have gone up part like car
Speaker 2: robberies and stealing. And it's like that's a societal problem
Speaker 2: because people don't have money and food, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean.
Speaker 1: Dmic like in a pandemic that like hurt a lot
Speaker 1: of people economically as well.
Speaker 2: Like instead of that, why don't we like I don't know,
Speaker 2: make eggs not you know, eight dollars, Like there are
Speaker 2: things that lead to the crimes that are happening that
Speaker 2: do not help arrest because then.
Speaker 3: You have to owe for your jail time and you
Speaker 3: have to get lawyer.
Speaker 2: Like yeah, but in terms of like giant crimes, they
Speaker 2: did go down right major co Well, I'm glad that
Speaker 2: this got sorted out because of all places, California would
Speaker 2: never let that go.
Speaker 3: But I wonder if, like in.
Speaker 1: Not to be stereotypical, but I wonder if in Red States,
Speaker 1: where they have kind of a law where they always
Speaker 1: talk about law and order and like, you know, sorry
Speaker 1: that you're a victim, but you committed a crime, like
Speaker 1: the vibe that this DA has and like that even
Speaker 1: some of the detective I mean even Careesi was like,
Speaker 1: well she did do it, you know, Like that vibe
Speaker 1: is definitely going to be around in other states, And
Speaker 1: I wonder if they're going to make these laws too.
Speaker 2: Yes, but the reason there is law and order is
Speaker 2: you have to investigate, you have you have to prove it.
Speaker 3: If someone did something, it's up to you.
Speaker 2: To like build a case, you know what I mean, Like, right, well,
Speaker 2: thank god we have an incredible guest, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean. But this is actually I mean this, this
Speaker 2: is actually one of the few cases I guess we
Speaker 2: cover that like a law was passed quickly and this
Speaker 2: is not allowed anymore.
Speaker 1: And like the government working quickly and efficiently, which is.
Speaker 2: Because if it wasn't for this bodine guy who knows, yeah, like,
Speaker 2: she could have just gone to jail and none of
Speaker 2: this would have been uncovered. So it is pretty incredible
Speaker 2: that he did that. Yeah, little or little mister Olivia Benson.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, let's get right over to our guests because
Speaker 1: we had such a fun time talking to this person. Okay, guys,
Speaker 1: our guest today is a true renaissance woman. She has
Speaker 1: been in the Broadway musicals Saturday Night, Fever, Pretty Woman,
Speaker 1: and Legally Blonde, the last of which she was nominated
Speaker 1: for a Tony. She also frequently performs with her husband, actor,
Speaker 1: singer and former guest of the Pod Andy Carl aka
Speaker 1: Baby Dodds.
Speaker 3: We could call her missus Baby Dodds.
Speaker 1: And you know her as the nefarious detective Nadia Zabo
Speaker 1: from today's episode. Guys, please enjoy our convo with the
Speaker 1: fabulous or Fe.
Speaker 2: We rewatched your episode yesterday together in a hotel room
Speaker 2: in Orlando, and it's you're so good. It is such
Speaker 2: a good episode.
Speaker 6: Thank you.
Speaker 3: Even though we saw it a few times already.
Speaker 2: It was just truly riveting your It's you and Marishka
Speaker 2: in that office yelling at each other.
Speaker 6: It was good stuff.
Speaker 3: Chemistry.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel I feel like not a good SVU
Speaker 1: expert right now. But what was the role you played
Speaker 1: in your first SVU when you were in season twenty one?
Speaker 6: I felt I think that was like a cameo. Oh yeah,
Speaker 6: it was like a smaller thing. It was very small.
Speaker 6: It was top like the first scene before everything starts,
Speaker 6: and I played Tony in She Paints for Vengeance. I
Speaker 6: was the club owner at the Shady Club where Shenanigans
Speaker 6: were happening.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, okay, and then we get you back as
Speaker 1: I mean, I hope this character.
Speaker 3: I hope she recurs. I would love to see my
Speaker 3: face off.
Speaker 6: I don't quite know what they're waiting for, but.
Speaker 1: Yeah, another Benson and her like butting heads.
Speaker 3: We need it.
Speaker 6: I just think they should be such a lesson.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you guys like stole the idea in the
Speaker 2: end and got all the credit, and it just yeah,
Speaker 2: I would love to get more action. But does your
Speaker 2: character think she's doing the right thing or does she
Speaker 2: know it's bad?
Speaker 3: But she doesn't care. Did you think about that?
Speaker 6: I think that people like Nadia always think they're sanctimoniously
Speaker 6: doing the right thing. That's my it. So I don't
Speaker 6: think she thinks she's doing anything wrong. And I think
Speaker 6: that as far as that big showdown scene, you could
Speaker 6: tell by what she was saying, it's like, no matter
Speaker 6: what you say about me, it's not worse than anything
Speaker 6: you did, you know what I mean? So I think
Speaker 6: she justifies her existence or her actions saying oh, really,
Speaker 6: well how about this, or then you get a twist
Speaker 6: with her where she's like, tell that to the mother
Speaker 6: of a twenty five year old who was killed during
Speaker 6: a car japp right. She just absolutely has a rationale
Speaker 6: and a justification for all the shenanigans.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So how take us back to the beginning? How
Speaker 1: this part even came about? You had done this smaller
Speaker 1: part in season twenty one. Yes, I know your husband
Speaker 1: has been a had a recurring arc in a totally
Speaker 1: different season. Yes, and you're friends with Marishka. So how
Speaker 1: do you get to the Dick Wolf universe?
Speaker 6: You know, honestly, it was because I just wouldn't stop
Speaker 6: bugging Marishka and Warren light honestly, and I hang out
Speaker 6: with war I've spent a lot of time with Warren,
Speaker 6: and I've spent a lot of time with Marishka. Very
Speaker 6: lucky that you know, Marishka is someone who's a part
Speaker 6: of our lives, and she's always like, we got to
Speaker 6: get you on, we got to get you on. So
Speaker 6: it was really her idea, and it was about doing
Speaker 6: it the right way and the right time, because I
Speaker 6: was always like when Andy was on, and I didn't
Speaker 6: know them all that well at that point in time.
Speaker 6: I knew Warren, but I didn't know Marishka as well.
Speaker 6: I was like, where can I be on? I could
Speaker 6: be like this and I can you know. I just
Speaker 6: was always like coming up with these ridiculous ideas, and
Speaker 6: you know, finally I think I think my turn came up, honestly,
Speaker 6: you know, and it was it was luck, but it
Speaker 6: was something that was in the mix for quite some time,
Speaker 6: and Marishka was very, very motivated to have me on
Speaker 6: with her. She very specifically didn't want me to just be,
Speaker 6: you know, some character that didn't get to play with
Speaker 6: her and I and when we did, she paints for
Speaker 6: Vengeance and she was the director of that episode. So
Speaker 6: when we were together, she's like, I need you back on,
Speaker 6: I need you with me, I need you in scenes
Speaker 6: with me. So this was something that was marinating for
Speaker 6: quite some time. Honestly, this was not like a random hey,
Speaker 6: let's get hurt. It was very orchestrated. It just took
Speaker 6: some time and then we got felled by the pandemic,
Speaker 6: so you know, but it was in It was in
Speaker 6: the works for quite some time. It just happened to
Speaker 6: mesh and coolate at that moment, and I couldn't be happier.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so like after that scene in the office, did
Speaker 2: you guys like high five after?
Speaker 6: Oh god, yeah, she's just Marishka. So there was a
Speaker 6: moment in the scene where we're at my desk when
Speaker 6: Ma Marishka Olivia comes to visit me, and she's like,
Speaker 6: you know, kind of being cool, and I'm like, you know,
Speaker 6: I did a slow turn. I like she said something
Speaker 6: and I just like did this. And after the scene,
Speaker 6: Marishka's like, you really scared the shit out of me
Speaker 6: with that look, because you know I was doing I
Speaker 6: was playing it a little bit more mild and kind
Speaker 6: of warm and fuzzy for lack of a better way,
Speaker 6: and she's like, what are you doing? What are you doing?
Speaker 6: Let me have it. I was like, I don't, you know,
Speaker 6: I'm new here. I can't you know. She's like, do it.
Speaker 6: You give it to me, scare me, give it to me.
Speaker 6: And Marishka basically directed my entire performance out of me,
Speaker 6: so you know, yeah, but she was like she literally
Speaker 6: I could see it too. Her eyebrow went up and
Speaker 6: she was like oh because she was yeah, she was
Speaker 6: really And I just did this very slow, which she
Speaker 6: had said, try this, and I was like, yeah, sure.
Speaker 6: She's like, yes, I'm sure. And I just did this
Speaker 6: like slow pan to her and she was like that's it. Yeah,
Speaker 6: and she was like look at me. I got chills.
Speaker 4: It was.
Speaker 6: It was. She's a really In addition to being all
Speaker 6: that Marishka Hargatea is, she's also a really phenomenal director
Speaker 6: and she knows exactly what she wants it to look
Speaker 6: like and how the scene should go and voila.
Speaker 2: Yeah, when did you decide to go by one name
Speaker 2: become a mono named performer?
Speaker 6: I've been a mono named performer since I was six
Speaker 6: years old, and I literally cannot stand that people think
Speaker 6: it's a thing that I got from someone else. I'm like,
Speaker 6: let me ask all of you, find me three more
Speaker 6: or Fays on the planet. Yeah, tell me about their
Speaker 6: last names and if they're using them. And it was,
Speaker 6: and I've said this before, but I'll say it to you.
Speaker 6: When I was in grade school and they would do
Speaker 6: roll call, they were already so put upon by the
Speaker 6: fact that they had to yell out my name during
Speaker 6: roll call that the last name went away a long
Speaker 6: time ago.
Speaker 3: I've bet so.
Speaker 6: The Orfe was always just or Fae. But when I
Speaker 6: got a record deal back in the nineties and I
Speaker 6: had to join the union, you know, you had to
Speaker 6: join after when you were a recording artist, cause Sagon
Speaker 6: After were not one at that point in time. And
Speaker 6: I had been in SAG already as just or Fe
Speaker 6: because you could pick any name. And I was like, well,
Speaker 6: mine's real. That's how it all happened. So it's actually
Speaker 6: just legally my name.
Speaker 3: So wow, it's.
Speaker 6: Not what kind of name is that my mother made
Speaker 6: it up based on Black Orpheus the opera? Oh wow,
Speaker 6: So it's no, there's no other I mean, people are
Speaker 6: always giving me my origin stories and I'm like, yes,
Speaker 6: it is that, but it's this, you know what I mean,
Speaker 6: and it's not. You know, occasionally I'll get you know,
Speaker 6: other people who are named this name spelled the same.
Speaker 6: They refuse to admit that it's after me, but it
Speaker 6: is because my mother made up the spelling. But then
Speaker 6: come to find out, there was a recording artist like
Speaker 6: a thousand years ago who put out a record with
Speaker 6: my name, like I mean, decades and decades ago, which
Speaker 6: is why there are issues with my birthday because people
Speaker 6: think I was born the year my record came out
Speaker 6: while I was in the womb. Oh, hence why I'm
Speaker 6: one hundred and seventy On certain places on the internet.
Speaker 6: Literally there is a recording artist who put out a
Speaker 6: record called Orfe spelled exactly like mine.
Speaker 3: Oh wow, And.
Speaker 6: I'm like, oh, okay, so I was born this year,
Speaker 6: which wasn't also my birthday, it's not, and I put
Speaker 6: out a record in the womb. I am prolific, beyond
Speaker 6: I'm magically prolific.
Speaker 3: So amazing. Did you grow up in an artsy theater home?
Speaker 6: Not even remotely. No, No, I will say my adults
Speaker 6: were very into phenomenal music, from R and B to
Speaker 6: you name it. There was good music my house, so
Speaker 6: the music taste was stellar and that definitely, you know,
Speaker 6: permeated to my my fibers.
Speaker 1: Yeah and you, But you grew up in New York
Speaker 1: and I read on your Wikipedia that you went to LaGuardia.
Speaker 6: I did.
Speaker 1: My dad went there too, did did he but a lot,
Speaker 1: but he's much older than you, so he went when
Speaker 1: it was actually depends on who.
Speaker 6: Put a record in the womb, so but he's about
Speaker 6: that old.
Speaker 3: But but yeah, like so you.
Speaker 1: Didn't grow up in an artsy house, but you had
Speaker 1: like an artsy upbringing, right because you were going to
Speaker 1: like art schools.
Speaker 6: Yes, yes, and I was, but I was very self motivated.
Speaker 6: I did not have a mamager. Nobody in my family
Speaker 6: was in the arts, artistic people, photographers. One of my
Speaker 6: mother's first jobs was retouching headshots with the old school
Speaker 6: way with an eraser and a lead pencil, you know
Speaker 6: what I mean. So they were very artistic visually. I,
Speaker 6: on the other hand, can't draw a stick figure. If
Speaker 6: you if you literally, if the world's fate depended on
Speaker 6: my artistic abilities, it'd be curtains armageddon. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So wait, and didn't you and Andy do a big
Speaker 2: show in so at Sony Hall.
Speaker 6: Recently we did October fourteenth. It was the best, It
Speaker 6: was the best. It's We have a concert series that
Speaker 6: we've been doing for quite some time, many years. Again,
Speaker 6: there was a little bit of a thwarting during the pandemic,
Speaker 6: but we have a series called legally Bound. You know,
Speaker 6: play on words from legally Blonde. Oh my god, we're
Speaker 6: so brilliant and we've been doing concerts everywhere all over
Speaker 6: the place. We haven't gone overseas with it yet. We're
Speaker 6: hoping that happens at some point in the near and
Speaker 6: distant future. But yeah, we've toured the show. We started
Speaker 6: at Lincoln Center and then we just went everywhere. We've
Speaker 6: done it in La Miami, San Francisco, and lots of
Speaker 6: stuff in the Tri State area and you know, the
Speaker 6: urbs and all of that. So, yeah, we have a
Speaker 6: concert series called legally Bound.
Speaker 3: That's awesome.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we talked to Andy a little bit about you
Speaker 1: guys working together, because we love to ask couples that
Speaker 1: are both in the business, like do you guys like
Speaker 1: to work on auditions together? Do you like to like
Speaker 1: be in the same things together?
Speaker 3: And stuff?
Speaker 6: We love being in the same things together because for
Speaker 6: some twisted fate thing, we have unusual chemistry for a
Speaker 6: married couple, because you know how that can go. Yeah,
Speaker 6: it's sometimes oil and water. We just happen to the
Speaker 6: fates were kind to us. So we love working together.
Speaker 6: We cannot stand auditioning each other, and that is something
Speaker 6: we have to do. Yeah, because I'm very much like,
Speaker 6: all right, let's go, let's do it. Let's I'm not
Speaker 6: even gonna look at the sides, let's just do it.
Speaker 6: And Andy will be meticulous. You know, he's a virgo,
Speaker 6: I'm a Arees. It's like we're virgos. Let's go. So
Speaker 6: but in general, auditioning can be so heart wrenched, lee
Speaker 6: wretched that neither one of us is in a good
Speaker 6: mood to do it anyway. Right, So it's just, you know,
Speaker 6: it's challenging all the time, but working together is phenomenal.
Speaker 2: I lovely Gly Blonde love the musical. How was it?
Speaker 2: You know, such a famous role? Like how did you
Speaker 2: prep for it to make it your own? And then
Speaker 2: like no, it was this like classic thing, like the
Speaker 2: process for that.
Speaker 6: You know, it's so weird because it was such a
Speaker 6: famous movie. And then the musical has had its like
Speaker 6: do so much after the fact, do you know what
Speaker 6: I mean? Like, yes, we got tony nominations, and we
Speaker 6: were very popular when we were on Broadway, But I mean,
Speaker 6: this is a show that should have run forever and
Speaker 6: ever and ever. And it's like, somebody just put a
Speaker 6: comment on the post I did today with Andy as
Speaker 6: Emmett that apparently nobody knew Andy covered Emmitt. So somebody said,
Speaker 6: you know, if this show came out when there was
Speaker 6: TikTok and when there were social media, you guys would
Speaker 6: still be run. And this poster, this comment was absolutely true.
Speaker 6: If it had come out during social media, I think
Speaker 6: I think Facebook and Twitter were just starting to exist,
Speaker 6: so there was nothing but word of mouth. There was
Speaker 6: nothing but you know, so when people were coming to
Speaker 6: the theater, they were actually motivated to come and see
Speaker 6: the show, as opposed to like it trending somewhere, you
Speaker 6: know what I mean. But it has become such an
Speaker 6: unbelievable phenomenon at this point that it's it's interesting that
Speaker 6: we're all much more popular because of it now than
Speaker 6: we were then. As far as like listen, first of all,
Speaker 6: you can't copy Jennifer Coolidge. Ye, she's literally inimitable. Okay,
Speaker 6: she's an icon, she is everything that she is. So
Speaker 6: for me to kind of go and start to talk
Speaker 6: like this and you know, kind of give that no,
Speaker 6: you know, it would have been a disaster from the top,
Speaker 6: you know what I mean. And Jerry Mitchell, our director,
Speaker 6: is he and I are very very very close friends,
Speaker 6: and he knows how I work. I know how he works.
Speaker 6: This was our first time doing a big musical together,
Speaker 6: but we knew each other and he knew Andy, and
Speaker 6: I was just like, you know, let me kind of
Speaker 6: infuse what it is that I do as a performer,
Speaker 6: who I am as a performer, and then take the
Speaker 6: best aspects of movie Paulette, slash Jennifer Coolidge Paulette and
Speaker 6: do some kind of a blend that's going to make
Speaker 6: sense to people. And you know, I had the the
Speaker 6: the additional gift of being able to sing, so no
Speaker 6: one could say, well, like, she doesn't sing like Jennifer Cooley,
Speaker 6: you know what I mean, So like I got to
Speaker 6: have that as my own thing, so no one could
Speaker 6: compare that. But if they were able to compare in
Speaker 6: any other way than kind of costumes or visual or
Speaker 6: who Paultte was to l it would not have worked out.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 6: I I just was lucky enough Jerry allowed me to
Speaker 6: kind of give it my my spin.
Speaker 1: You know what was I going to ask you? Oh,
Speaker 1: are you what are you working on right now?
Speaker 6: What am I working on right now? We have you know,
Speaker 6: we optioned I don't know if Andy told you, we
Speaker 6: optioned a book called The Dancer. So we're kind of
Speaker 6: trying to fit the pieces of where it's gonna go,
Speaker 6: who's gonna be in it, and you know, things like that.
Speaker 6: Michael yuriy is our lead, you know, so we're all
Speaker 6: kind of you know, involved in that. There are a
Speaker 6: lot of concerts coming up after the new year, so
Speaker 6: we're kind of working on that and auditioning and waiting
Speaker 6: for you know, the next good gig and maybe waiting
Speaker 6: for res for you to call me back.
Speaker 1: Because Nadia they got I mean they left the door
Speaker 1: open because it's like they didn't suspend that character. She
Speaker 1: got completely walked away like she was the savior of
Speaker 1: Noah the Queen's homicide.
Speaker 2: What if you guys have to work together like major keys, Yeah,
Speaker 2: that would be fun, Like they should do that, but
Speaker 2: you have to work together.
Speaker 6: I would do it doesn't matter like I don't care.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was.
Speaker 6: It was just about the not even just about It
Speaker 6: was the best television experience I haven't. I don't have
Speaker 6: a zillion mile resume for TV. I have had, you know,
Speaker 6: good stuff episodic wise, but that was hands down my
Speaker 6: favorite professional experience I've had in TV. Hands down. She
Speaker 6: knows it, they all know it. I make no bones
Speaker 6: about when I'm happy. It's like, you know, i'd be
Speaker 6: crazy not to me, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally classic questions is what are your favorite craft
Speaker 2: service snacks and go tos?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 6: I love candy, I'm I'm really it's it's it's a problem.
Speaker 6: So yeah, I love like gummy bears and gummy worms
Speaker 6: and starbursts and things like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, totally, it's a thing.
Speaker 2: That's our problem. Was reading that you're a tattoo girl.
Speaker 2: You have a lot of hidden tats. They're all that's smart. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I feel I have a lot of tattoos, and I
Speaker 2: feel like any time I do get to be on
Speaker 2: a set, everyone is panicking. Well because you have to
Speaker 2: really stress this people out.
Speaker 6: But it shouldn't stress the makeup. So good. I mean
Speaker 6: I had to cover my ankle tattoos twenty some odd
Speaker 6: years ago when the makeup wasn't as good for Saturday
Speaker 6: night Fever because they're the you know, when you're wearing
Speaker 6: a dress and heels, Yeah, you can see them. And
Speaker 6: I mean Annette could have had tattoos, but they were
Speaker 6: like now yeah, so.
Speaker 2: Are you?
Speaker 3: Are you going to get more?
Speaker 6: You know, I love them so much. I just don't
Speaker 6: know where else to put them, where they're properly hidden, yeah.
Speaker 4: And.
Speaker 6: Where they'll look good in a in a red carpet situation,
Speaker 6: you know what I mean. Like, and there are certain
Speaker 6: parts of my body I don't want them on, and
Speaker 6: I've never wanted them on or else I would have
Speaker 6: done it already. So I have to figure out where
Speaker 6: the next one or what the next one will be,
Speaker 6: because they all mean something to me. They're not random,
Speaker 6: so that when I'm you know, sixty seventy eighty years old,
Speaker 6: I'm going to look and be like what was I thinking?
Speaker 6: You know, they all mean yeah, but you can switch them.
Speaker 6: You can always get you know, have them covered up
Speaker 6: and changed.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: So you mostly just worked with Marishka when you were
Speaker 1: at SVU, Right, you didn't really did you really have
Speaker 1: scenes with any of the other cast members.
Speaker 6: I did in the episode. One of the first two
Speaker 6: scenes that Marishka's not in were with the other guest.
Speaker 3: Oh, that's right, the other guest stars. I guess.
Speaker 1: I was just kind of like, did you have any
Speaker 1: interactions with like Iced Tea.
Speaker 3: Or like, you knowinety bay stories.
Speaker 6: I did with the first episode, the Tangled Strands of
Speaker 6: Just No Revenge.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Oh my god.
Speaker 6: I'm just I'm I've been on so many I just
Speaker 6: can't keep the string. I was only with Iced Tea
Speaker 6: and Jamie for my uh scene with the paints for Vengeance. Yeah,
Speaker 6: moment when Marishka was directing. So I was just in
Speaker 6: a room with the two of them and the one
Speaker 6: actress who came in to like be like yeah, sure,
Speaker 6: you know, she got really upset and she was like, yeah,
Speaker 6: this place is disgusting basically, So it was just us
Speaker 6: and Iced Tea is the coolest human being alive, yeah,
Speaker 6: hands down, And.
Speaker 1: We just hear so many good things about him and Mariushka.
Speaker 1: It's like no one has any shit to talk about them.
Speaker 1: Everybody just loves them so much.
Speaker 6: Because it's it's real, like, yeah, you know, Iced Tea
Speaker 6: is just I don't know if Andy's told you, but
Speaker 6: Ice is Andy's idol, Like he just adores him. And
Speaker 6: Iced Tea and Coco came to Pretty Woman and Ice
Speaker 6: was like smiling from ear to ear. I was like, dude,
Speaker 6: you're freaking smile. Look at you. He's like, yo, I
Speaker 6: had a good time. Like he's just the coolest, coolest,
Speaker 6: coolest guy on the planet. I'm nice and generous and like,
Speaker 6: you know, people go up to him. He's not all.
Speaker 6: You know, I'm a star, I'm ic t. Mrshka is
Speaker 6: the same way. She doesn't act like, you know, a huge,
Speaker 6: mega mega mega mega star.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no diva behavior.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what are the difference between outside of like tapes,
Speaker 2: but like theater auditions and like TV movie auditions.
Speaker 6: Uh, theater auditions are notoriously endless. I was just having
Speaker 6: this conversation with somebody a moment ago. I auditioned for
Speaker 6: Paultte and Legally Blonde for.
Speaker 3: Six weeks, Oh my god. For six weeks.
Speaker 6: From the first time I walked in till the day
Speaker 6: they told me I finally got the role was a
Speaker 6: six week period. TV It's quick. Yeah, audition, you get
Speaker 6: it or you don't, and they're usually like shooting the
Speaker 6: next day. So I think that's much kinder. Yeah, I
Speaker 6: really do.
Speaker 3: Wait, you waited six weeks or you had to do
Speaker 3: stuff for that I had to do.
Speaker 6: I had to go back for callback after callback for
Speaker 6: six weeks.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 6: It was not every day for six weeks, but from
Speaker 6: the time I first went in till the time that
Speaker 6: I got the role, it was a six week process. Damn,
Speaker 6: I'm traumatized.
Speaker 3: I feel like they showed that in Smash a little bit.
Speaker 6: Oh really, Okay, Yeah it's true.
Speaker 1: You know, I actually remember now when you were entangled
Speaker 1: you you have a lot. I think that having a
Speaker 1: mono name like you, it pays off because I remember
Speaker 1: the first time I googled you was from when you
Speaker 1: were entangled Strands of Sorry, she paints for vengeance.
Speaker 6: She paints for venge because I pay for Tangled Strands
Speaker 6: of justice because I.
Speaker 1: Was like, who's or fe like, why does this person
Speaker 1: have one name? And I just was like, who is that?
Speaker 1: I googled you and found out about you being on
Speaker 1: Broadway and stuff, and you found.
Speaker 6: Out it was one hundred and ten year old site.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was like, ooh, she's great for one hundred
Speaker 1: and ten. And then when Jimmy told me he knew you,
Speaker 1: I was like, I know who she is because I googled.
Speaker 3: Her and I just saw her on this new episode.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: So it's all like, you know that name intrigues people, well, thank.
Speaker 6: You, or revolts them. It's only one or the other.
Speaker 6: There's nothing in between.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, so is there anything you want our viewers
Speaker 1: to our listeners sorry, to like check out, Like the
Speaker 1: Legally Bound series.
Speaker 6: I think I think that there's a lot of music
Speaker 6: that we have out that they should all check out.
Speaker 6: We've got legally Bound Live at fifty four below the
Speaker 6: CD it exists. There's the Christmas single Baby Please Come Home,
Speaker 6: the old Darlene Love Classic. I mean, it's all available
Speaker 6: on Spotify. But hey, if you want to purchase like
Speaker 6: an autograph copy, you can go to pot Way Records
Speaker 6: and there's you know, the the the Archaic CD but
Speaker 6: it has our you know, autographs on them. So yeah,
Speaker 6: fifty four. You know, legally Bound Live at fifty four.
Speaker 6: All of my older music is on Spotify now, even
Speaker 6: like the out of print first CD I made when
Speaker 6: I was a kid, or in more that's available now
Speaker 6: and what do you want for Me?
Speaker 3: Uh? With the single what do you Want from Me?
Speaker 6: Yes, the or FA CD, the or f A CD
Speaker 6: I made when I was in Legally Blonde. I'm hoping
Speaker 6: some music person finds one of my older songs and
Speaker 6: makes it a big freaking hit. Now that's really the dream.
Speaker 3: That's a techno remix for TikTok.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, seriously, Like you know, Kate Bush, two words,
Speaker 6: that's it.
Speaker 3: This is cool. I hope we see you in so
Speaker 3: many things.
Speaker 6: Yeah, thank you. From your Mouth to God's Ears.
Speaker 3: Oh a great episode. Yeah, such a good episode. She
Speaker 3: was so fun. Just a great episode.
Speaker 2: And the end I think it's one of those moments,
Speaker 2: not a haunting SV moment, but the line of like,
Speaker 2: if you want to get things done, it doesn't matter
Speaker 2: who takes credit for it, Like, yeah, you got to
Speaker 2: allow other people to take credit for stuff if you
Speaker 2: want to get things done. And I just think that's
Speaker 2: something important to remember.
Speaker 3: Like, and I think women have been doing that for century.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, like that one hits. But if you're
Speaker 1: a woman, you're like, yeah, I guess I fully have like,
Speaker 1: let my ideas like just just to make it happen.
Speaker 3: Let some man take a credit for it, you know. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: you're right. I don't know. I can't think of a moment.
Speaker 2: I yeah, I think I want attention for stuff, and
Speaker 2: I'm glad to remember that that doesn't matter as long as, yeah,
Speaker 2: things get fun.
Speaker 1: But this episode, you know, while the cops are doing
Speaker 1: whatever they can to get convictions, I can't believe this
Speaker 1: happened in real life.
Speaker 3: I'm glad it got spotted.
Speaker 1: I'm glad that it's like, I can't believe that we
Speaker 1: have to like make laws against stuff that just seem
Speaker 1: so morally reprehensible, but you have to like put it
Speaker 1: in writing so that nobody tries to do it.
Speaker 3: But I'm glad it's been done.
Speaker 2: But also, of course there's no law written about it, because.
Speaker 3: Men do the law. They don't even care.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, marital rape what wasn't illegal until the
Speaker 2: nineties I think or eighties. So yeah, it's so, yeah,
Speaker 2: of course there's not laws to protect this. They don't
Speaker 2: even test the rape kits.
Speaker 3: Yeah, by the backlog.
Speaker 2: These motherfuckers, so they don't get how hard So Idaho, Yes,
Speaker 2: I sent you a thing about I guess one of
Speaker 2: the survivors.
Speaker 1: Just so people know what we're talking about. We're talking
Speaker 1: about this murder. This this murder that we've talked about
Speaker 1: on the podcast before that I'm were I think we're
Speaker 1: all very invested in finding out the truth about these
Speaker 1: four college students that were murdered seemingly at random. They
Speaker 1: had no suspects for a really long time. Over the
Speaker 1: winter break, a suspect emerged. I posted about him on
Speaker 1: our Instagram. He looks like fucking William Lewis. And then
Speaker 1: Lisa go on with what you were gonna say. So
Speaker 1: they arrested a god. But there's one survivor who saw
Speaker 1: this is this is all from Instagram, So I don't
Speaker 1: really know if what's true what's not. Yeah, but one
Speaker 1: survivor saw the attack or leave or come in like
Speaker 1: she knew, but then did not call the authorities for
Speaker 1: like nine more hours or something like fell asleep.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And a lot of.
Speaker 2: People in the comments are like, fuck this bitch, why
Speaker 2: didn't she do it?
Speaker 3: This is shady. She must have something to do with it.
Speaker 2: But I always think about one of our early episodes,
Speaker 2: Colleen stan and the prosecutor. They're saying stop expecting people
Speaker 2: to do normal things in abnormal situations. So I feel
Speaker 2: for this girl, like if she was just like so
Speaker 2: scared or in shock, or you know, like little kids
Speaker 2: in SVU sit in the closet and don't call for
Speaker 2: help like it happens.
Speaker 3: So I don't know, but I understand the comments. I
Speaker 3: don't know.
Speaker 2: It was just another like layer where I'm like, I
Speaker 2: hope this wasn't a hit.
Speaker 3: I hope this wasn't a little duo situation him.
Speaker 1: I mean, we've had a few people write to us
Speaker 1: that say that, like they live near where this guy
Speaker 1: lives in Pennsylvania, but it's not very he was going
Speaker 1: to school on the Washington state border or something like
Speaker 1: very close to the border of Idaho.
Speaker 3: I guess. So I don't know.
Speaker 2: I can't imagine like what you know, like what's worse
Speaker 2: to find out? I guess it doesn't matter if like
Speaker 2: this is a loved one of yours, but like if
Speaker 2: it's random, or if it was cahoots, or if like yeah,
Speaker 2: or if the stories are getting commingled. And we covered
Speaker 2: a case like this, the Tulsa massacre, where it was
Speaker 2: just like a bunch of students being murdered in one
Speaker 2: home and the same thing. The judge did the same
Speaker 2: thing for this case where it's like on lock no
Speaker 2: one can talk to the media at all. And I
Speaker 2: wonder what about these types of crimes that make that happen.
Speaker 1: Yes, I want to know that too, Like what is
Speaker 1: it where you think that the publics help. I guess
Speaker 1: they figure that since there wasn't a suspect for so long,
Speaker 1: whatever the public could offer in terms of help has
Speaker 1: been done, you know, like and now this man's identity
Speaker 1: is out there. If you know something about him, you
Speaker 1: know who to contact. Like there's really not a lot
Speaker 1: of like tips or help we can't expect from the
Speaker 1: public anymore because it happened so long ago and they
Speaker 1: only just But there were two roommates that survived.
Speaker 3: We say survived.
Speaker 1: When we say survived, I think they were just upstairs sleeping,
Speaker 1: is what I originally read. Like they just didn't get attacked.
Speaker 1: I don't know if this guy planned to get all
Speaker 1: of them. Didn't know that there were six of them,
Speaker 1: but like he killed four of them, two of them apparently,
Speaker 1: like like you were just saying, woke up in the morning,
Speaker 1: didn't call cops for a long time and we're only
Speaker 1: just finding out now that maybe that One of them
Speaker 1: says she saw the guy like leaving the morning of
Speaker 1: the attack or something, but he was in a mask
Speaker 1: that covered his nose in his mouth, but she said
Speaker 1: she described his bushy eyebrows or something, so like, I
Speaker 1: don't know if maybe she could I d him.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: And she said she heard crying and a male voice
Speaker 1: say it's okay, I'm going to help. It's like, so,
Speaker 1: I don't know. This case is so fucking weird. But
Speaker 1: what's the weirdest is that he studies criminology and criminal justice. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but what do I say, Yeah, sociology is good, criminal
Speaker 1: justices those are.
Speaker 3: The badt.
Speaker 2: It is what it is. I don't make up the rules.
Speaker 3: No, I didn't. I totally made that up.
Speaker 1: But I think we got to be like fingerprinting these
Speaker 1: criminology students.
Speaker 2: I just feel like sociology people become like public defenders,
Speaker 2: and then criminal justice people become parole officers. Like that's
Speaker 2: my breakdown of what I believe. No, but this is
Speaker 2: just an amazing episode. I think it's I love their
Speaker 2: fighting in the office, I love the passion, I love
Speaker 2: the wild story but grounded.
Speaker 3: I don't know. I love it. I love it. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I would like to see or Face character back.
Speaker 1: I would love to see Naughtia Zabo back because her
Speaker 1: and Benson, I think because they know each other personally,
Speaker 1: like her and Marishka, like they just had a really
Speaker 1: good bitch chemistry and I like that.
Speaker 2: I also want to see Andy Carl and Orfe together
Speaker 2: like we saw them separate. We know that they're together,
Speaker 2: but I want to like go dancing with them or something.
Speaker 3: Didn't.
Speaker 2: I want to see what's up because I wonder if
Speaker 2: she talks a lot and he's chill, or if they're
Speaker 2: like both chatty kathy, like, I just want to know
Speaker 2: their dynamic.
Speaker 3: I love that. I'm always curious about that too, for sure.
Speaker 2: But okay, let you know another thing I'd like to
Speaker 2: say about Orphe is, you know these singers, they can't party,
Speaker 2: they can't treat, They twenty the instruments.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, like you cannot.
Speaker 2: Maybe hopefully she's eating some edibles at night, but it
Speaker 2: is tough. Yeah, yeah, it couldn't be me. I just uh,
Speaker 2: you know, well that's what Bridget ever it said. Bridget
Speaker 2: Everett was like a classically trained singer, and then when
Speaker 2: she've realized the lifestyle, she was just like.
Speaker 3: No, no, I'm not doing I'm.
Speaker 1: Gonna do Joe's pop where I get wasted and sing
Speaker 1: at the same Yeah, cabaret.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna do cabaret. Like, yeah, there's a comic who
Speaker 2: I really don't like. But she has said this too,
Speaker 2: where she's like, I was gonna be like an actole.
Speaker 2: And then when she started going on auditions, she was like, ugh,
Speaker 2: like these people are so like doing like you know,
Speaker 2: like yeah, She's like and she walked out. She's like,
Speaker 2: I don't want to do this. And that's girl. Gargoyle guy,
Speaker 2: gargoyle girl, garth?
Speaker 3: Did you ever do that one?
Speaker 1: Now?
Speaker 3: But I like that.
Speaker 2: I think if I have a home, I would buy
Speaker 2: some gargoyles. I think it's funny.
Speaker 3: I like it.
Speaker 2: It reminds you of beating the beast. Oh yeah, well
Speaker 2: if they come alive, that's for sure. I'm a girl.
Speaker 3: What can I say? I'm a gar girl, I'm a
Speaker 3: gargoyle girl. It's hard to say. Okay, let's move on.
Speaker 1: Let's get into our what would Sister peg do for
Speaker 1: this episode? You know, what would Sister peg Do is
Speaker 1: our uh segment where we direct you guys to a book,
Speaker 1: an organization, an article, something that will give you more
Speaker 1: info and what we talked about today, and we wanted
Speaker 1: to point you this week to the organization Black Women Revolt,
Speaker 1: and that is an organization that's dedicated to increasing awareness
Speaker 1: about the impact of intergenerational violence in the black community
Speaker 1: and removing barriers for black women who've experienced domestic abuse
Speaker 1: to receive access to culturally sensitive resources. So if you
Speaker 1: know anyone that is that could use this kind of service,
Speaker 1: please send them to Black Women Revolt dot org or
Speaker 1: if you just want to check out their resources and donate,
Speaker 1: go ahead to that website, black Women Revolt dot org.
Speaker 1: And that will as always be on our Instagram stories
Speaker 1: the day of the episode release and will be saved
Speaker 1: forever in our WWSPD highlight.
Speaker 3: Amazing.
Speaker 2: Thank you for that, and we will continue on next
Speaker 2: next year, next episode Abomination season five, episode eight Hulu Peacock,
Speaker 2: get on it, and thank you so much for listening,
Speaker 2: rate and review, and we'll see you next day.
Speaker 7: Bye bye.
Speaker 2: That's messed up as an exactly right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover. Shoot us an email
Speaker 1: at That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
Speaker 2: and on Twitter at Messed Up Pod, and follow us
Speaker 2: personally at Kara Klank and.
Speaker 3: At Glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our producer Kacy O'Brien.
Speaker 1: And to our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker
Speaker 1: Patrick Cotner, and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song
Speaker 1: and Carly gen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to
Speaker 1: our executive producers Georgia Hardstar, Karen Kilgareff, Daniel Kramer, and
Speaker 1: everybody at Exactly Right Media dat The dun