1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:03,480 Speaker 1: Quality times with Joseph scotten More. 2 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 2: I've got a bad habit of leaving towels around the house. 3 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:14,319 Speaker 2: I don't know what it is. I just, you know, 4 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:20,159 Speaker 2: I'll use a towel and just kind of lay it 5 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 2: on the floor, or I won't go hang it up. 6 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 2: And you know, Kimmy never really jumps on me about 7 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 2: it or anything like that. But I always try to 8 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 2: catch myself. In the past, I didn't know it. Maybe 9 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 2: I'm just getting older and I'm getting forgetful. Next thing, 10 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 2: you know, I'm gonna be walking around the yard. But 11 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 2: you never know how these things will go. But today 12 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:44,520 Speaker 2: I'm faced with a case that I want to tell 13 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 2: you about, my friends. It's a case that occurred all 14 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:52,560 Speaker 2: the way back in nineteen eighty down in the Tampa Bay, 15 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 2: Florida area that has just landed on our radar. And 16 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 2: it does, in fact involved a towel, and contained within 17 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:10,040 Speaker 2: that towel is the stuff of life, the molecular blueprint 18 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 2: that we all have. Of course, I'm talking about DNA, 19 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:23,320 Speaker 2: and this DNA may just have unlocked a mystery that 20 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:30,399 Speaker 2: has been unsolved for these many many years since I'm 21 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 2: Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body backs. Well, Dave, 22 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 2: here we are. We've got another case involving you know, 23 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 2: like I said, the stuff of life. Isn't it amazing 24 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 2: how many of these cases we cover now? Where that 25 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 2: molecule is the is the lynchpin that holds everything together, 26 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 2: where we're going to be able to go back and 27 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 2: hopefully find some answers to these mysteries that have existed 28 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 2: loath these many years. And in this case it certainly 29 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 2: certainly holds true. 30 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 1: I remember telling you a story about a guy I 31 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 1: went to high school with who went to Atlantic Beach, 32 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 1: North Carolina, and he and a friend ended up murdering 33 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 1: a girl and planning her body at the beach, burying 34 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 1: it in sand and seaweed or the marshy stuff that 35 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 1: grows on the beach anyway, And it was an unsolved murder, 36 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 1: unsolved prime. It had been a couple of years, and 37 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: the case was this in the early eighties. The case 38 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 1: was cold. They had no better idea of who did 39 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 1: the murder, or why it happened, or anything else. Didn't 40 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 1: know anything about it. It was a four year old 41 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 1: case when at a party. At a party, one of 42 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 1: the two got drunk and said something to somebody at 43 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: the party about what they had done four or five 44 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: years earlier. That led to a police call, that led 45 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:13,639 Speaker 1: to an investigation, that led to an arrest, that led 46 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 1: to a conviction, and it led to a life sentence. 47 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 1: I say that because back in the day, the only 48 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:23,799 Speaker 1: way you would get caught on a cold case like that, 49 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 1: if you didn't leave a lot of yourself behind and 50 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 1: you weren't already in the system, was if somebody talked. Yep, 51 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 1: not so much the case now. My first thought that 52 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 1: came to mind on this case was had Terry gotten 53 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 1: away with that in nineteen eighty two or three, he 54 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 1: could have beenbusted now this way. And just because you 55 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: get away with a crime, just because you think you 56 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: got away with a murder back in nineteen eighty, they're 57 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 1: going to find you. 58 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. 59 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: And that's what happened here. October sixteenth, nineteen eighty. October 60 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 1: sixteen eighty, police in Tampa called to check on Charles Barnes. 61 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 1: Charles failed to show up for work as a hotel 62 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 1: kitchen manager. Officers forced entry into his home on East 63 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 1: Okaloosa Avenue. They found Barnes naked on the floor, stabbed 64 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 1: with a knife lodged in his chest and blood throughout 65 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:25,359 Speaker 1: the bedroom. The crime scene showed signs of struggle and 66 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: items rummaged through, two firearms and Barnes car missing. Two 67 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 1: firearms and Barnes car missing. Six weeks later, December nineteen eighty, 68 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:43,279 Speaker 1: barnes car is found abandoned at the Tahitian Inn parking 69 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 1: lot in Tampa. Despite collecting evidence like beer cans with 70 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:53,920 Speaker 1: fingerprints Joe, beer cans with fingerprints and biological samples at 71 00:04:53,920 --> 00:05:01,040 Speaker 1: the scene, the case went cold in nineteen eighty. Technology 72 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 1: was limited in nineteen eighty. We've covered this a couple 73 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 1: of times of what was available to investigators at that time. 74 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 1: You were talking about different types of blood work that's done, 75 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 1: secretors and things like that. But really and truly, Joe, 76 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 1: you find seemen at the scene of a crime in 77 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty, what kind of technology was available to determine 78 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: whose it was. 79 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 2: Not much? And it does come back to well, I 80 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:34,159 Speaker 2: remember vividly. You know, back in those days, you know 81 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:38,160 Speaker 2: people saying, well, we hope, we hope that we'll be 82 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 2: able to get some type of blood evidence from this, 83 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:45,719 Speaker 2: some kind of zero logical evidence, because all this stuff, 84 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:50,719 Speaker 2: there's a division within medicine and also within forensic saw 85 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:58,479 Speaker 2: It's called zerology. And most people associate zerology with blood, 86 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:03,279 Speaker 2: but zerologists with many things, you know, uh named just 87 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 2: about any kind of body fluid or secretion. I mean, 88 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 2: we're even talking about feces and zerologists, I know, right, zerologists, 89 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 2: you know, handle it. 90 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 1: You don't surprise me often. But Tamblin got me right there. 91 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:18,480 Speaker 1: I didn't see it coming. 92 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I'm sorry. 93 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 1: That was the snowball with the rock in it, thank you? 94 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 2: Right? Yeah, So yeah, so for years and years and 95 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 2: of course zerology we have forensic zorologists, but you know, 96 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 2: zerology is is what is kind of the seed corn 97 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 2: that that DNA sprouts from. Okay, the modern practice of 98 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:51,839 Speaker 2: forensic DNA and back then zorologists were heavily dependent upon 99 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 2: uh to look for things like, you know, secrets. You know, 100 00:06:55,720 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 2: if you've got individuals that have left a seminal sample behind, 101 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 2: for instance, you're hoping that they're part of that population, 102 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 2: which I think that last time I heard is like 103 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 2: forty percent of the population, or secrets where you will 104 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 2: find evidence of blood in a bodily secretion. Okay, so 105 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 2: you know, if you have seminal remnant that's left behind 106 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 2: or deposit deposition you'll find like red blood cells you know, 107 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 2: contained therein and if you can get those red blood 108 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 2: cells and you type them. But again, even if you 109 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 2: even back during that period of time, Dave, even if 110 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 2: you were to type the blood, okay, there is a 111 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 2: there are, there is a very limited spectrum of people 112 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 2: you're going to be able to match. And even if 113 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 2: you do match up, say the rarest blood type, which 114 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 2: is ab NAG with some one, well ab NAG is 115 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 2: like one and I don't know, I always get this wrong. One. 116 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 2: One in just over one hundred and sixty persons, all right, 117 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 2: have got ab NAG. So you compare that to the 118 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 2: numbers that we talk talk about now with DNA, and 119 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 2: it's it's so far in the dust. But you know, 120 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 2: that's really all you had to work with. And many 121 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:30,240 Speaker 2: times it was a combination of things. You would look 122 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 2: for blood blood evidence that was not the blood of 123 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:38,440 Speaker 2: the victim. That would be important because you know, in 124 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 2: this particular case they're talking about that there was a struggle, 125 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:47,440 Speaker 2: all right, and you've got, you know, a mighty struggle 126 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 2: that's going on in here. So did the perpetrator spring 127 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:56,199 Speaker 2: any leaks along the way all right, back. 128 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 1: In that day, back in ninety if if both people 129 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:04,080 Speaker 1: had the same blood type, could you separate out whose blood? 130 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:06,440 Speaker 2: But be very very difficult to do. 131 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 1: Wow, that's crazy, very very difficult. 132 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:12,080 Speaker 2: You know. What you're hoping for is that you're going 133 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 2: to get I don't know, you go back to the 134 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 2: ab nig, you know, example, and hopefully you'll get an 135 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 2: O pause or something, you know, and you might have 136 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 2: a mixed sample at that point. But again that's all 137 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 2: you have now. That has to be coupled also with 138 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 2: any other kind of trace elements that are found here, 139 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 2: you know, which comes down to you know, like in 140 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 2: this case, we've got fingerprints or as we say in South, 141 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 2: fingerprints that are left behind on the surface of these 142 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:52,080 Speaker 2: beer cans. Beer cans again are a smooth, non poorous surface, 143 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 2: which for lifting a print is fantastic. It's like glass 144 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 2: almost all right, because the absence of the kind of 145 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 2: poorest nature if you think about a grainy wood surface, 146 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 2: that sort of thing. Yeah, you can lift a print 147 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 2: off of there. And prints are not my Bailey wick, 148 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 2: that's just I teach. I teach prints, okay, but I 149 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:22,200 Speaker 2: am not a latent print examiner. I know enough to 150 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 2: be very very dangerous. I know how not to destroy them. Okay, 151 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 2: but you know, and this goes in, I'll open up 152 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 2: a broader conversation here if you wish. When you think 153 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 2: about forensic science, is it is an impossibility for anyone 154 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 2: to become an expert in multiple fields. Okay. That's why 155 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 2: I take exception to fictionalized crime shows, because it does 156 00:10:56,240 --> 00:11:01,440 Speaker 2: a disservice to people that have worked a long, long, 157 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 2: long time to become experts in their field. Okay, so 158 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 2: you're not going to have somebody that's say, for instance, 159 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:16,680 Speaker 2: is a latent print examiner, and they're a certified latent 160 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 2: print examiner, certified and expert, qualified to sit on the 161 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 2: stand and hold forth. And that person is going to 162 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 2: achieve the same level of expertise in ballistics, which is 163 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 2: another you know, division in forensics, and they're not going 164 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 2: to be an expert in tool mark. They're not going 165 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 2: to be an expert in forensic anthropology. So but yet 166 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 2: you'll have these composite characters, you know, that they'll use 167 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 2: on television where they are all things to all people, 168 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 2: and we as we very well know that's not the 169 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 2: way it works in the real world. You know, you 170 00:11:56,800 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 2: hone your craft in order to become somebody that is 171 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:06,719 Speaker 2: proficient in one specific area. So with this, if you 172 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 2: take an item and you're capable of lifting a print 173 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 2: off of that surface, either through dusting or say fuming, 174 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 2: which we've talked about before, with the heating of super glue, 175 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:27,680 Speaker 2: for instance, and it binds with those fatty lipids that 176 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:33,680 Speaker 2: leave behind the impression of fingerprint. Remember, we leave fingerprints behind. 177 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 2: We don't have fingerprints on the tips of our fingers. 178 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 2: Those are friction ridges. We leave those behind and that's 179 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 2: for the investigators to find. That's why I like with 180 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 2: a beer can, for instance, you have to be very careful. 181 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 2: You don't think about, you know, when you're touching a 182 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:54,080 Speaker 2: beer can and or soda can. In the regular real world. 183 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 2: You're not out there working as Crumpsen investigator. You just 184 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 2: grab a can. You don't think about, well, you know 185 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 2: this is you know, I can disrupt something here. You 186 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 2: have to view the world when you're a crom scene 187 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 2: investigator through a completely different lens. You know, even how 188 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 2: you step, how you move, how you experience a world 189 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 2: through touch. Okay, you have to be really, really in 190 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 2: tune to that because any move that you make in 191 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 2: that environment, and they would have known this in nineteen 192 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 2: eighty can disrupt things. However, I will tell you this. 193 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 2: It was during back during this time in the early 194 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 2: eighties when I first became a corner investigator, and I 195 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:42,680 Speaker 2: remember going I remember going out to scenes and no 196 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:48,200 Speaker 2: one had gloves on. I remember several occasions being being 197 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:50,920 Speaker 2: out on scenes and now you love this one being 198 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 2: out on scenes where you've got a detective that has 199 00:13:57,360 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 2: forgotten to bring his pen and he goes digging through 200 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 2: the the drawers at a scene looking for a ball 201 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 2: point ten to write with. 202 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 1: I really hold on this kidding. The guy over here's 203 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 1: got one in his hand, it's stuck in his other 204 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:11,440 Speaker 1: guy's chest. 205 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 2: I've actually, I've actually seen this happen. I have seen 206 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 2: I've seen investigators back on those many years ago walk 207 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 2: into a scene and fire cigarette on the scene and 208 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 2: tip their cigarette in the dead guy's ash tray in 209 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 2: the house, cigarette hanging out of their mouth. Wow, they've 210 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 2: got a leather portfolio or whatever it's called. The you know, 211 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 2: the the notebook covers that we all carry. You know 212 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 2: that people used to carry. I guess they still do. Yeah, yeah, exactly. 213 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 2: And they're riding in that, you know, and that sort 214 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 2: of thing. They look all squared away, but yet they 215 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 2: got a marble hanging out of their mouth. And while 216 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 2: you're walking around, you're thinking, are they going to contaminate anything? 217 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: Now? I remember the O. J. Simpson trial, Joe in 218 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 1: ninety five. Okay, when we were watching video from the 219 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 1: from the crime scene in June of ninety four, and 220 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:17,240 Speaker 1: we were watching news reports that were trained on the 221 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 1: forensic guy that was collecting evidence. You remember, Dennis Fong. 222 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 1: And I hate I don't want to wreck this guy 223 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 1: with the calls anymore than his career has been. But 224 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: have you ever been to a crime scene where you 225 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 1: didn't have gloves on? Mister Pong? 226 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 2: No? 227 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 1: Never in the background is him reaching with no gloves on? 228 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: You know that kind of thing. 229 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I look, it all depends on how it's 230 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 2: frame too, right, And yeah, I think about call. Yeah, 231 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 2: and I recall detectives. I recall detectives at that scene. 232 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 2: You can see them walk around. They don't have shoot 233 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 2: covers on, their gloves on, that sort of thing. 234 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, but we're supposed to believe that Bruna and Molly 235 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 1: could have well, it was let's move on from that. 236 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 2: I years I stage. Yeah, they're setting the stage here 237 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 2: and it's listen. I mean, yeah we could. We could 238 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 2: sit here and you can beat up any number of 239 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 2: people over the court, me included, you know, for the 240 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 2: stupid stuff that I did back then, and it was 241 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 2: it was not We didn't think in microscopic terms, not 242 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 2: the way we do now, and not even microscopic. I'm 243 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 2: talking well, yeah, I guess microscopic, but I'm talking about 244 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 2: a molecular level. Now, you know, stuff that you if 245 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 2: you want to take microscope applied, you know, electron scanning, microscope. Uh, 246 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 2: you know, that's the world that we're in now, you know. 247 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 2: And I'm always talking about how crime scenes are now 248 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 2: surgery suites, and you have to think of it that way. 249 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 2: You know, when you go in there, you want to 250 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 2: be that prepared. But whatever they did in Tampa back 251 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 2: all those years ago, it has stood the test of 252 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 2: time because though this case did in fact go cold, 253 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:24,920 Speaker 2: we've recently found out that the day it's sizzling. Brother Dave, 254 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 2: you well, you've known me now, so I don't have 255 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 2: much in the back left to surprise you with. But 256 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 2: I will tell you this, you might be surprised to 257 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 2: learn that the number the sheer number of cases I've 258 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:45,439 Speaker 2: worked over my career involving knife injuries where the knife 259 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:51,440 Speaker 2: has actually been left in the body. It's you think 260 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 2: that somebody stabs somebody, they take the knife, and they 261 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:59,360 Speaker 2: going about their business. I think back over it all 262 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 2: these years later and I think, wow, that was significant number. 263 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:06,160 Speaker 2: I've never been able to figure it out. And it's 264 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 2: not just leaving the knife in. I've had multiple cases 265 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 2: where individuals have broken knives off in bodies, and a 266 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 2: lot of that has to do, I think with the 267 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:23,160 Speaker 2: level of anger that is generated and the force behind it, 268 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 2: and also people choose really cheap knives, you know, So 269 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:31,640 Speaker 2: you know, I don't know, you know, there's any number 270 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 2: of cases that I use in instruction in college now 271 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 2: that I can throw slides up from crime scenes and 272 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:42,639 Speaker 2: actually demonstrate it to people. But it creates a unique 273 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:46,159 Speaker 2: set of circumstances relative to how are you going to 274 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 2: get the body back to the mork Because we have 275 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 2: to understand with sharp force injuries, we're not going to 276 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 2: take the knife out at the scene period. That even 277 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 2: applies to say people that are impaled on things, I 278 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 2: don't take those items out of the body. Now. I've 279 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:08,879 Speaker 2: had people impelled on fence post. I've had what was it? 280 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 2: You right? 281 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 1: Yeah? 282 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you take it with you want to leave it, 283 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:19,439 Speaker 2: as we say inside to And the reason is is 284 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:21,880 Speaker 2: that you want to see where it's tracking through, all right. 285 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:26,119 Speaker 2: And the beauty of it too, here's the beauty. People 286 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:30,400 Speaker 2: often wonder why do so many crimson images get excluded? 287 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:33,359 Speaker 2: And you go through pre trial and I've had to 288 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 2: do this. I remember one pre trial thing I had 289 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:39,680 Speaker 2: to do in New Orleans where I taken like six 290 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:43,959 Speaker 2: hundred photographs and these were thirty five millimeters and I 291 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 2: had to go over each photograph in pre trial to 292 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:52,359 Speaker 2: say is this a true representation of what you remember 293 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 2: at the scene? And then the defense attorney was so 294 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:02,200 Speaker 2: picky about this. He wanted to debate with prosecution over 295 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 2: every single one of these images, and then he did 296 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:08,879 Speaker 2: it with the cops. And it's kind of a delay tactic, 297 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:11,439 Speaker 2: I think. But what they will do is that they 298 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,920 Speaker 2: will say images are prejudicial, okay, And granted they are. 299 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:18,359 Speaker 2: They're very very bloody, all right, particularly if you've got 300 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:20,639 Speaker 2: a knife hanging out of the body, and the judge 301 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 2: might say, okay, one is all you need. You don't 302 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:27,119 Speaker 2: need more than that. But then prosecution will say, well, 303 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 2: we need to show it from multiple angles. You know 304 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:31,679 Speaker 2: how you get around that? If I've got a knife 305 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 2: sticking out of somebody's chest, if I take them to 306 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 2: the morgue with the knife still in the chest, guess what. 307 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 2: There's this cool invention that came out I don't know, 308 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 2: in the eighteen seventies or eighteen eighties called x ray. 309 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 2: All right, Remember they used the first rudimentary version of 310 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:51,919 Speaker 2: X ray on I think President Garfield when he was. 311 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:54,159 Speaker 1: Show oh yeah, the gun you find the bullet in 312 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 1: his arm right now? 313 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 2: To find a bullet? Yeah, well, it actually gives it an. 314 00:20:57,240 --> 00:20:59,919 Speaker 1: Act yeaheah, didn't they like try to He died for 315 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 1: infection from where they tried to dig it out. Yeah. 316 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 2: They were digging with their filthy hands, you know, digging 317 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:08,280 Speaker 2: in the wound. But anyway, yes, so that's not prejudicial 318 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:13,159 Speaker 2: because if you've ever had an X ray done and 319 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:16,360 Speaker 2: you sit there in fascination and you look at your bones, 320 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 2: your skeleton, you know, on X ray you're fascinated by it. Well, 321 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:23,360 Speaker 2: just imagine if there is a knife in there, that 322 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 2: radio pay radio opaque image that pops up, you know 323 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 2: where maybe you normally see ribs. Oh, by the bye, 324 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:34,159 Speaker 2: there's a blade in here too. Well, there's no blood, 325 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,400 Speaker 2: there's no gore with that. It's just a radiographic image. 326 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,159 Speaker 2: And listen, most people on a jury can identify with that. 327 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:43,119 Speaker 2: I wonder if that's what they did in this case. 328 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:45,120 Speaker 1: I hope they did. 329 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:47,399 Speaker 2: I hope that they didn't take the knife out of 330 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 2: the scene, because, as you reported earlier, we do have 331 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,200 Speaker 2: a knife stuck in this guy's chest, and so it's 332 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:56,959 Speaker 2: very important that that remained in place because when you 333 00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:00,400 Speaker 2: get the body back to the medical examiner, they can 334 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:03,360 Speaker 2: actually track the wound, just like you would a bullet track. 335 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 1: Dave, Wow, that's amazing to me what can be done 336 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:12,440 Speaker 1: with actual physical evidence. Sometimes, you know, but when I'm 337 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:16,439 Speaker 1: looking at I'm looking at the thought of the arguing 338 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:18,919 Speaker 1: in court over something, and I get it. Okay, I do. 339 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 1: I understand the idea of prejudicial material. I do, because 340 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:26,439 Speaker 1: we are innocent until proven guilty. Yes, and if you 341 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:30,199 Speaker 1: didn't do it, and there's a really nasty photo of 342 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:33,400 Speaker 1: the victim. Okay, and you didn't do it, but you're 343 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 1: on trial for it. 344 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 2: Yep. 345 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:36,639 Speaker 1: I understand that. 346 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 2: It's gonna want blood. Yeah, that's what it comes down through. 347 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 2: The jury wants. But if they want a pound of 348 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:44,120 Speaker 2: flesh for this exactly, it's so horrible. 349 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:46,399 Speaker 1: Yeah. And hey, they would not have put you, they 350 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,600 Speaker 1: would not have arrested you if you weren't guilty, you know, yeah. 351 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:51,359 Speaker 2: I know. And that's the that's the that's the angle 352 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 2: a lot of people come at it from. 353 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:57,119 Speaker 1: You know, what all you have to do one time 354 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:01,240 Speaker 1: is be a suspect, get hooked up to a polygraph 355 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,679 Speaker 1: and see how you feel, just one time when you 356 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:05,679 Speaker 1: didn't do it, when you had nothing to do with 357 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:10,400 Speaker 1: what they're you know, believe me that you know what 358 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:12,200 Speaker 1: the one thing you need to do on your way 359 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:13,920 Speaker 1: and they won't let you because you're usually in the 360 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 1: back of a squad car when you're headed that way. 361 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:17,680 Speaker 1: If you need to go ahead and stop by target 362 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:19,639 Speaker 1: and get you some more underwear because you're going to 363 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:22,399 Speaker 1: need them, You're gonna need them bad. But anyway, back 364 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 1: to this one with a knife in the chest. Now, Joe, 365 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 1: we have a case that starts in October of nineteen eighty, 366 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 1: it goes cold really quick. Okay, we're talking October sixteenth. 367 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 1: Charles Barnes is found dead, stabbed to death inside his home. 368 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 1: There's obvious signs of struggles. There's also obvious signs of 369 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:43,840 Speaker 1: some serious beer drinking that have been going on. Detectives 370 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 1: find blood soaked bedding. They find the home has been 371 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:53,440 Speaker 1: rummaged through. They find the knife in the victim. They 372 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 1: find his car is stolen, two guns are stolen. But 373 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 1: six or eight weeks later they find car. They find 374 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,919 Speaker 1: the victim's car, but that's it. Oh, it's got some 375 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 1: blood in it. But beyond that, Okay, we've got the 376 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,120 Speaker 1: victim with a knife in him, we've got his car 377 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:14,800 Speaker 1: at a different location. We've got guns missing, and no 378 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 1: suspect and none show up, Joe, none, No arrest is made, 379 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:29,440 Speaker 1: nobody's charged. This case sits there for years and years. 380 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,159 Speaker 1: I'm not saying they ignored it. I'm not saying that 381 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:35,320 Speaker 1: in Tampa, Florida they ignored this case. I imagine they 382 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:38,440 Speaker 1: worked at as best they could. But it happened in 383 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,679 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty and most of the stuff that we've been 384 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 1: talking about where the forensics really came into play with DNA. 385 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,639 Speaker 1: It was still taking baby steps. Fifteen years in and 386 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 1: after this girl. 387 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 2: Alex Jefferies hadn't even discovered that. He wouldn't discover the 388 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 2: utility of DNA for forensic applications until four years later. 389 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:03,199 Speaker 2: That's the earliest days of it. Wow, Sir Jefferies. And 390 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 2: so yeah, we were, we were behind, or we were 391 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 2: before that period of time. But you know, Dave, I 392 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 2: want to go back to something real quick, because nobody 393 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:19,400 Speaker 2: popped up on the radar this The fingerprints that were 394 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:24,360 Speaker 2: found there were apparently examined and they didn't come back 395 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 2: with a hit. So you don't have anybody that's necessarily 396 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,639 Speaker 2: in the system. The system was not at the same 397 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:36,400 Speaker 2: level that it would become later on once these once these 398 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:42,440 Speaker 2: prints become digitized and where you have a computer program 399 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 2: that is reading these things. Okay, so you're you're talking 400 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:51,679 Speaker 2: about hand searches, Uh, individuals having to go back with man. 401 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,359 Speaker 1: When you say hand searches, you mean like a guy's 402 00:25:55,119 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 1: person sitting at a desk, pulling up a file a card, Yeah, 403 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 1: fingerprint and yes, compairing it eyeball to eyeball. 404 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:05,080 Speaker 2: Yes. Yeah. 405 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:05,399 Speaker 1: Wow. 406 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:07,920 Speaker 2: So what you're looking at real fast? 407 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,000 Speaker 1: How many can you do in a minute if you're 408 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 1: flying through three? 409 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,920 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's tedious work, guy. I mean a tip 410 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:16,640 Speaker 2: of the hat to the people. You know, the first 411 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:18,879 Speaker 2: time I ever saw a Layton print guy and a 412 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 2: lab doing this, I'm thinking I don't want that job. No, 413 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 2: this is the thing about it. I mean, again, a 414 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:28,680 Speaker 2: tip of the cap to them. I don't have I 415 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 2: don't have what it takes to do that job. Imagine 416 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:36,160 Speaker 2: a big drafting drafting board or cartoonist board. Okay, that's 417 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 2: like sit there before you, and the guy's got loops, loops. 418 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,720 Speaker 2: You know that he's looking through you know, examining things 419 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,679 Speaker 2: on his glasses, or he's looking through a loop, a 420 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 2: hand loop that you can go through, and you have 421 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 2: to do a general classification of the print. Then you 422 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,199 Speaker 2: have to look for the minutia that's going to specifically 423 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,400 Speaker 2: identify that print, and you know where you can get 424 00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 2: an idea about it. Then you have to go back 425 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 2: and go back and reference this thing. And so yeah, 426 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 2: it's it's a tedious it's a tedious thing and very 427 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 2: very difficult to do. And of course computers changed everything. 428 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,600 Speaker 2: We started to get into this digital world and suddenly 429 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:17,880 Speaker 2: that thing that would take a protracted period of time 430 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 2: for somebody to examine and come up to some kind 431 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:25,920 Speaker 2: of reasonable explanation of or our opinion on, Now that's 432 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:31,199 Speaker 2: been you know, it's gone into rocket mode at this 433 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:35,159 Speaker 2: point in time. So kind of running parallel. You know, 434 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,600 Speaker 2: back in the nineteen eighty you would not have had 435 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:43,200 Speaker 2: that ability. Now you do, okay, and also loping behind. 436 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 2: Loping behind is now DNA trying to catch up. But listen, 437 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:53,439 Speaker 2: any sample that you take, any sample you take, it's okay. 438 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 2: I mean, if you can lift a latent print off 439 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:59,919 Speaker 2: of one of those those cans, a brother, if that 440 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,159 Speaker 2: prints not in the system, oh you guys, a print right, 441 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,160 Speaker 2: I mean, that's what it comes down. It's like DNA. 442 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 2: If you've got a DNA sample, good on you. I'm 443 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:12,399 Speaker 2: glad you recovered the DNA you developed profile. If you 444 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:16,240 Speaker 2: ain't got nothing compared to then what are you gonna do? Then? Well, 445 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:20,879 Speaker 2: it goes into stasis. You mentioned the thing went pretty 446 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:25,479 Speaker 2: cold pretty quickly, or went cold pretty quickly, and I 447 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 2: can understand why, because the person just puff vanishes into 448 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,240 Speaker 2: thin air and they they didn't find the guy's car 449 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 2: for how long was it was? 450 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 1: It it was like December. Okay, this happened on October sixteenth, 451 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 1: and it was in December before they found the vehicle abandoned. 452 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 1: Tampa's not a small place. 453 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 2: No, no, it's not so. 454 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 1: But anyway, it was by the time they found the car, 455 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 1: there was no more evidence in the car than they 456 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 1: had inside the house, and so it did go cold. 457 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,600 Speaker 1: But in two thousand and nine, Joe as so many 458 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:00,720 Speaker 1: you know what I think, TV shows, you know, cold 459 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:04,040 Speaker 1: case files and things like that, became popular and people 460 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 1: started watching these shows in the late nineties and early 461 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: two thousands, and all of a sudden, we had smaller 462 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,960 Speaker 1: departments across the country having cold case squaws being put together. 463 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 1: Oftentimes they were from retired police and detectives volunteers that 464 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 1: would come in and spend their own time trying to 465 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 1: break a case. In this case, I don't know if 466 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 1: that's who they pulled in, but in two thousand and 467 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 1: nine they decided, we'll go ahead and run all this 468 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 1: stuff again. Because by two thousand and nine, you are 469 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 1: talking twenty nine years after the murder. We do have fingerprints. 470 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:42,720 Speaker 1: If somebody that left that fingerprint behind in nineteen eighty 471 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,800 Speaker 1: that wasn't in the system before then. Chances are they 472 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,480 Speaker 1: have committed in another crime since then. It maybe just 473 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,440 Speaker 1: maybe we do have fingerprints or we've got something in 474 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,280 Speaker 1: this system. By twenty two thousand and nine, and lo 475 00:29:55,440 --> 00:30:00,160 Speaker 1: and behold, Joseph Scott Morgan. Investigators retested the fingerprints it's 476 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,479 Speaker 1: found on the beer cans at the crime scene. They 477 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 1: got a match. 478 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:04,720 Speaker 2: Yep. 479 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 1: His name was Robert Bear. Robert Bear, two thousand and nine. 480 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 1: Those fingerprints you talked about, and this goes back to 481 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:22,280 Speaker 1: he wasn't in the system when they got the fingerprints. 482 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 2: Yep. 483 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,240 Speaker 1: So they had the evidence. But if it's not in 484 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:30,080 Speaker 1: the system, you don't do anybody any good. But you 485 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 1: know what, We've had a couple of cases cracked by 486 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 1: somebody who left their fingerprints at the scene of a 487 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 1: crime and then did not commit another crime, but they 488 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,680 Speaker 1: applied for a job that required them to do a 489 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 1: fingerprint and that's what got him caught years later. 490 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:51,920 Speaker 2: Yep, yep, yep, you're right. And you know, I don't know, 491 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 2: maybe your sins will find you out. I have no idea, 492 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 2: but you think about that bit, and then you've got 493 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 2: inside of this home you've got deposition that has been 494 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:11,240 Speaker 2: left behind, DNA deposition that has left behind as well, 495 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:18,000 Speaker 2: that is going to be coupled back to someone. And 496 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:22,320 Speaker 2: this goes to this thought that I had about the towel, 497 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:26,000 Speaker 2: you know, that I opened up with because they did 498 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:29,920 Speaker 2: in fact find a towel that they retained after all 499 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:35,600 Speaker 2: these years. And again, you don't have the ability to 500 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,560 Speaker 2: to under They didn't have the ability back then to 501 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:43,520 Speaker 2: understand that maybe just maybe that there's molecular evidence on 502 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 2: the surface or within the threads contained their end of 503 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 2: this towel, something that had been absorbed into it. They 504 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 2: had no way of knowing. But it's weird, you know, 505 00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 2: It's kind of like Walt Disney's head. I guess you know, 506 00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:02,040 Speaker 2: you're you're hoping, you are hoping that you know that 507 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:06,720 Speaker 2: even though the bodies in stasis, that medical medical science 508 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:08,479 Speaker 2: will catch up with it. I still don't know if 509 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 2: that story is true or not. But in this case, 510 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:14,800 Speaker 2: you know, our scientific our scientific community, you know, has 511 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,720 Speaker 2: caught up with a lot of these people now and 512 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 2: these cases are being solved. 513 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:21,720 Speaker 1: The one thing though, I want to point this out 514 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 1: that while they did have fingerprints of Robert Bear matched 515 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:31,160 Speaker 1: up in the apartment on the beer can. He said, 516 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 1: I don't know the guy, right, I don't know, And 517 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 1: so they talked to him in two thousand and nine, Joe, 518 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 1: they talked to Robert bar in two thousand and nine. 519 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 1: But why are we talking about this now in twenty 520 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,520 Speaker 1: twenty six, because they did not arrest Robert Bear in 521 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 1: two thousand and nine. Having your fingerprint on a beer 522 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 1: can does not necessarily make you a murderer. 523 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 2: No, And there were other fingerprints contained inside of that 524 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 2: apartment too, and I would imagine I don't know if 525 00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:57,480 Speaker 2: any of those, if they ever got hits on those, 526 00:32:57,560 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 2: or if they followed up with those. But Dave, I 527 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:01,960 Speaker 2: got to tell you there's something that's kind of in 528 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 2: the back of my mind with this case. I've worked 529 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 2: my share of death over my career, and I gotta 530 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:18,920 Speaker 2: tell you, anytime I walk on to a death scene 531 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 2: and I find somebody nked as a jaybird, my thoughts 532 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:28,080 Speaker 2: drift to something else. They drift to things like was 533 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:31,760 Speaker 2: there something going on here that was maybe of a 534 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:49,760 Speaker 2: more intimate nature? Brother, Dave. You know, most of the 535 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 2: time when we talk about sexual assaults, okay, you know, 536 00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:58,960 Speaker 2: of course, some bodybags. I don't know that we've ever 537 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 2: done a case it doesn't involve a death body bags right, uh, 538 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:11,279 Speaker 2: with a rape, homicide or suspected you know, sexual assault 539 00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 2: primarily we think about females, right Did you know that 540 00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:24,600 Speaker 2: I have worked many sexual assaults on male subjects over 541 00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:27,080 Speaker 2: the course of my career and most people don't think, 542 00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:29,400 Speaker 2: you know, we do rape kits on males as well, 543 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:36,759 Speaker 2: and so it's it's the same process essentially. Obviously, you know, 544 00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:43,759 Speaker 2: we we're going to take swabs of all areas orifices 545 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 2: of the body and treat them just like we would 546 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:52,920 Speaker 2: say a vaginal exam. With females, we do vaginal and 547 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,800 Speaker 2: rectal males. Obviously, we're we're only gonna be doing rectal. 548 00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:01,239 Speaker 2: Set the slides up or set the h the swabs up, 549 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,319 Speaker 2: let them dry, and then we do smears because one 550 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:07,879 Speaker 2: of the things we're looking for in those cases is 551 00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:14,319 Speaker 2: any evidence of of rape and seminal deposition. We're also 552 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 2: going to do fingernail clippings as well. You know, we're 553 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:23,600 Speaker 2: going to do scrapings and clippings, and if I am 554 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:30,720 Speaker 2: not mistaken in this particular case, the fingernails come into 555 00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:35,080 Speaker 2: play in in in this victim's. 556 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:38,560 Speaker 1: Case, David, Well, you got to remember that Robert Paul Bear, 557 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:42,360 Speaker 1: his fingernet prints were found on the beer can, said 558 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:52,879 Speaker 1: I don't know this guy, I've never been in his house. Well, then, 559 00:35:52,880 --> 00:36:00,480 Speaker 1: how do you explain our victim having your skin cells 560 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:06,040 Speaker 1: under his fingernails. Yeah, because that's what was under his fingernails. 561 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:12,160 Speaker 1: It was Robert Bear. So Charles Barnes scratched, clawed. They said, 562 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:15,120 Speaker 1: there was obviously a fight had taken place, there was 563 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:17,440 Speaker 1: some kind of physical activity going on in there, and 564 00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:23,800 Speaker 1: in that physical activity, Charles Barnes scratched and got something 565 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:28,279 Speaker 1: underneath his fingernails that was able to tell investigators many 566 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,719 Speaker 1: years later that Robert Bear says he was never there, 567 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:33,840 Speaker 1: but part of him was. 568 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean fingerprints. You could there's any number of 569 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:42,880 Speaker 2: things that a defense attorney could say about fingerprints on 570 00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:44,959 Speaker 2: beer cans. You'd say, well, he may have walked into 571 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:47,960 Speaker 2: the some convenience store, say sell Yucker store, whatever, and 572 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,839 Speaker 2: handle the cans, and you know, you can kind of 573 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,439 Speaker 2: contra upt reasonable doubt with that. But when you start 574 00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:57,839 Speaker 2: to talk about biological evidence found beneath the fingernails of 575 00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:01,239 Speaker 2: a homicide victim, that's a that's a horse of a 576 00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:05,080 Speaker 2: different color at that point in tom and one of 577 00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:11,000 Speaker 2: the things that was discovered relative to to the physical 578 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:15,600 Speaker 2: evidence at the scene. Yeah, you had weapons too, by 579 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:18,719 Speaker 2: the way, and I really wonder how they came to 580 00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:23,200 Speaker 2: the conclusion there were two weapons stolen. I'm thinking that, 581 00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:26,279 Speaker 2: you know, because people, if you have a weapon of 582 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:29,919 Speaker 2: any kind, you know, it would behoove you to write 583 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,759 Speaker 2: serial numbers down, you know, so that you can keep 584 00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:35,760 Speaker 2: track of it and you keep it hidden or secured somewhere, 585 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:37,920 Speaker 2: and that way if they do go miss and you 586 00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:41,319 Speaker 2: can track them down. I'm sure Dave that at that 587 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,919 Speaker 2: point in time, the PD that was handling the case, 588 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,959 Speaker 2: I can almost guarantee you they were bouncing around from 589 00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:51,239 Speaker 2: pawn shop to pawn shop if they were worth it, 590 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:53,319 Speaker 2: if they were worth their salt at that point in time, 591 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:58,120 Speaker 2: trying to check out in a place Tampa size, they 592 00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:02,040 Speaker 2: would actually probably have a division within their CID that 593 00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:05,960 Speaker 2: handled pawnshops because there's so much burglary that goes on 594 00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:09,279 Speaker 2: in larger cities that you have to have somebody that's 595 00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:11,719 Speaker 2: going to keep a you know, keep tabs on that 596 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:14,080 Speaker 2: sort of thing. If you're looking for certain items, and 597 00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:16,880 Speaker 2: you show up at a pawn shop, what's the most 598 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:19,920 Speaker 2: likely you know, you know, where can they be found? 599 00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:23,399 Speaker 2: If you're dumping the car in one location? You know, well, 600 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:25,080 Speaker 2: the first place I'm going to start is probably going 601 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,440 Speaker 2: to run the pawn shops adjacent to where the car was, 602 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:30,960 Speaker 2: right and then kind of work my way out or 603 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:33,399 Speaker 2: go back to the scene of the crime and work 604 00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:35,919 Speaker 2: my way out from there to you know, to run 605 00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:37,799 Speaker 2: by the pawn shops, say hey, do you do you 606 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,600 Speaker 2: have any weapons that fit this description? Somebody trying to 607 00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:45,719 Speaker 2: score some money, and again it almost you know, I 608 00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:48,680 Speaker 2: talked about the the idea that you've got one guy 609 00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:51,520 Speaker 2: that's nude here and he's got a knife area in chefs. Well, 610 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:55,160 Speaker 2: first off, when you have someone at a scene and 611 00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:59,799 Speaker 2: you're talking about this level of intimate violence, there is 612 00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:02,680 Speaker 2: a there is a sexual connotation to it. As far 613 00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:05,120 Speaker 2: as I'm concerned, I don't know that you can convince 614 00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:08,799 Speaker 2: me otherwise, because there is a level of intimacy and 615 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:15,040 Speaker 2: violence as connected to this. So it would seem to 616 00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:18,880 Speaker 2: me that perhaps the individual involved in this may have 617 00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:24,279 Speaker 2: been a hustler in New Orleans in particular during this 618 00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:26,239 Speaker 2: period of time when I was working down there, we 619 00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:29,239 Speaker 2: came across a number of people that were in fact hustlers. 620 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,520 Speaker 2: They might engage in sex for money mails I'm talking about, 621 00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:38,960 Speaker 2: but they were also thieves as well. You've got the 622 00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:43,600 Speaker 2: victim is roughly thirty nine years of age. This guy 623 00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:48,960 Speaker 2: that they have, Robert Bair, that they have found the fingerprints, 624 00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:52,320 Speaker 2: and now go ahead and say it. They've got a 625 00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:57,840 Speaker 2: DNA match on this guy. He how old was he 626 00:39:58,160 --> 00:39:59,279 Speaker 2: during this period of time. 627 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:03,400 Speaker 1: He was eighteen in nineteen eighty and one thing that 628 00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:06,640 Speaker 1: got me, joeing, I wanted to know we had his 629 00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:09,120 Speaker 1: fingerprints in two thousand and nine when they rebooted the case, 630 00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:12,239 Speaker 1: when they started back over with the current testing, and 631 00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:17,120 Speaker 1: they did find the fingernail scrapings, but that wasn't enough 632 00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:22,319 Speaker 1: to put Robert Bear inside that house at that time. 633 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:25,400 Speaker 1: It was circumstantial. You mentioned there are any number of 634 00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:27,719 Speaker 1: ways that your fingerprints could end up on that beer 635 00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,640 Speaker 1: can that didn't include you being there. You can actually 636 00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:34,080 Speaker 1: get your you know, hey, man, maybe you were in 637 00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:36,960 Speaker 1: the same bar, you shook this guy's hand, and you 638 00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:39,960 Speaker 1: know there's a way that your DNA could end up 639 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,560 Speaker 1: under his fingernails. I mean, there are ways other than 640 00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,840 Speaker 1: that you committed. Now, granted you are going to be 641 00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,520 Speaker 1: a suspect, they are going to be looking. 642 00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:50,400 Speaker 2: At you before we're all on the radar. 643 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:53,880 Speaker 1: Yes, but that's not going to lock you up. And 644 00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:56,919 Speaker 1: that's why I was. I went and rechecked the dates, Joe, 645 00:40:57,120 --> 00:40:58,960 Speaker 1: I was really bothered by it. Yeah, because in two 646 00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:02,400 Speaker 1: thousand and nine they had the fingernails and the fingerprints, 647 00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:06,480 Speaker 1: but they didn't arrest Robert Bear. Now, Robert Bear was 648 00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:08,640 Speaker 1: involved with a woman who he had had children with, 649 00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:16,560 Speaker 1: and she talked to police because he was describing the 650 00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:20,440 Speaker 1: investigation and the way they were asking him questions, and 651 00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:22,480 Speaker 1: she didn't like his answers. She didn't like the way 652 00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:25,960 Speaker 1: but Robert Bear was saying to her. So she let 653 00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:29,200 Speaker 1: it be known that she was bothered by him as well. Now, 654 00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:34,720 Speaker 1: but no rest. In twenty fifteen, the investigators once again 655 00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:38,120 Speaker 1: brought the file to the FOE and said, let's look 656 00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:40,400 Speaker 1: at it again. They put everything out on the table, 657 00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:42,319 Speaker 1: they went through the computer, they went through everything, and 658 00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:48,520 Speaker 1: you know what, Joe, in twenty fifteen, nothing went back 659 00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:51,719 Speaker 1: in the file. And you know, we were pretty fat, 660 00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:54,279 Speaker 1: We're pretty far along. By twenty fifteen, we've got his 661 00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:58,160 Speaker 1: fingerprints on the cans, we've got his DNA under the fingernails. 662 00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:00,960 Speaker 1: And by the way, there was a towel. There was 663 00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:03,000 Speaker 1: a towel. You mentioned this a while ago. It was 664 00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:08,800 Speaker 1: a towel found by mister Barnes with body fluid on it. 665 00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,960 Speaker 1: It had stuff on it, this white towel that was 666 00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:15,919 Speaker 1: laying near the victim's body. But it took a long 667 00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:18,080 Speaker 1: time to be able to get it tested apparently. 668 00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:25,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, and they've not been very specific about what what 669 00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:28,399 Speaker 2: medium this is on the towel. And when I say that, 670 00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:32,200 Speaker 2: we don't know if it's blood or if it's seminal 671 00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:35,880 Speaker 2: deposition or something else saliva, We have no idea. But 672 00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:39,920 Speaker 2: we do know that they did in fact find DNA 673 00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:45,640 Speaker 2: deposition on there that ties back to this once in 674 00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:50,560 Speaker 2: former eighteen year old that you know from back in 675 00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:54,840 Speaker 2: nineteen eighty. And you know, this is the totality of 676 00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:58,200 Speaker 2: the evidence is beginning to stack up here, Dave. You know, 677 00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:00,319 Speaker 2: when you begin to look at this and again with 678 00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:05,319 Speaker 2: you know, with the renewed interest in what you can 679 00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:10,360 Speaker 2: do with familial DNA now moving forward into the future, 680 00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:14,960 Speaker 2: it does not surprise me that they ran this again, 681 00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:21,759 Speaker 2: and that's where we stand right now as far as 682 00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:22,600 Speaker 2: this case goes. 683 00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:27,640 Speaker 1: Right Well, Robert Bears arrested and they were able to 684 00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:30,880 Speaker 1: once they were able to link the fingerprints, the DNA 685 00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:33,879 Speaker 1: under the fingernails, and then the DNA that's what they're saying, 686 00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:37,520 Speaker 1: DNA on that towel found near the victim's body. They 687 00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:43,040 Speaker 1: now have law enforcement has arrested Bear and they law 688 00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:47,040 Speaker 1: enforcement has a jailhouse informant that claims Bear talked to 689 00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:49,399 Speaker 1: him about the case while they shared a jail cell. 690 00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:53,600 Speaker 1: I put zero stock in those but you know, it's 691 00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:57,680 Speaker 1: just another link in the chain again. Remember the murder 692 00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:01,840 Speaker 1: happened in nineteen eighty and it took again from two 693 00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:04,879 Speaker 1: thousand and nine Joe till now. It's a long time 694 00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:09,120 Speaker 1: from the time they knew, they knew his fingernail, his fingerprints, 695 00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:11,640 Speaker 1: they knew it was his DNA into his fingernails, and 696 00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:14,200 Speaker 1: they couldn't bring a case. So here we are, you know, 697 00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:17,200 Speaker 1: and it's been a long time. You know, forty five 698 00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:19,280 Speaker 1: years is a long time for somebody. 699 00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:23,920 Speaker 2: I'm really surprised that they didn't bring charges sooner. I 700 00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:27,239 Speaker 2: truly am, particularly after the you know, they did the 701 00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:39,080 Speaker 2: identification with with the fingerprints and also with the fingernails. 702 00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:44,680 Speaker 2: I've seen homicide charges brought with a lot less than this, Dave, 703 00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:47,560 Speaker 2: and I also want those status to this knife. I 704 00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:50,759 Speaker 2: want to know what type of knife was it. Was 705 00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,400 Speaker 2: it a kitchen knife? Is it something that may have 706 00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:56,759 Speaker 2: been in the perpetrator's possession or maybe the victim's possession, 707 00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:00,560 Speaker 2: a folding knife, a buck knife or something like that 708 00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:04,560 Speaker 2: that was deployed and you lost. In this particular case, I. 709 00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:10,400 Speaker 1: Think one thing, yeah, and that is this. They have 710 00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:19,399 Speaker 1: evidence that places Robert Bear, his DNA, his fingerprints, and 711 00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:26,920 Speaker 1: his well other DNA inside barnes home the night Barnes 712 00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:30,200 Speaker 1: is dead, or at least right around that time, because 713 00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:35,080 Speaker 1: that towel, I mean, again circumstantial, but stacked it all 714 00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:39,640 Speaker 1: up and it looks like a case. But here's the kicker, Joe, 715 00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:41,759 Speaker 1: and this is where I think they're going to get him. 716 00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:43,239 Speaker 1: This is where I think the prosecutors are going to 717 00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:46,000 Speaker 1: come through. You're on the jury, and I say to you, Dury, 718 00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:50,320 Speaker 1: all of this, each piece of evidence can be explained away. 719 00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:54,759 Speaker 1: But remember it was all found in the victim's home. 720 00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:57,520 Speaker 1: It was found on the victims person. It was found 721 00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:02,600 Speaker 1: next to the victim's body. And this suspect, Robert Behar, 722 00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:06,520 Speaker 1: he claims he's never met the man and was never 723 00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:10,759 Speaker 1: in his house. Yeah, hey, I believe him, do you? 724 00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:15,440 Speaker 1: If he wasn't there, how did his fingerprints if he 725 00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:19,359 Speaker 1: wasn't there, how did his DNA get there? If he 726 00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:23,000 Speaker 1: wasn't there, And if he lied about not being there, 727 00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:25,080 Speaker 1: if he lied about not knowing the guy, Well what 728 00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:25,560 Speaker 1: do you have? 729 00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:32,160 Speaker 2: Friends, Well we'll find out because this is going to 730 00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:36,719 Speaker 2: go to trial. We just don't know what and understand, understand, 731 00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:42,239 Speaker 2: listen to me very carefully, my friends. Robert Paul Bear 732 00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:47,839 Speaker 2: has merely been charged. He has been arrested and indicted 733 00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:53,200 Speaker 2: for first degree murder in Florida, if you know what 734 00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:56,400 Speaker 2: I mean. So this case is going to move forward. 735 00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:59,960 Speaker 2: He has merely been charged. He has not been convicted. 736 00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:02,520 Speaker 2: But we'll keep you up to speed. This is a 737 00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:06,720 Speaker 2: fascinating case, if for no other reason just the amount 738 00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:11,320 Speaker 2: of time that has elapsed since this horrific homicide took place. 739 00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:14,480 Speaker 2: If they're going to have a problem, it's going to 740 00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:20,640 Speaker 2: be something to do with time. Time is going to 741 00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:25,560 Speaker 2: be the biggest issue with this because its memories are 742 00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:32,000 Speaker 2: clouded evidence gets compromised that will be questioned along the way. 743 00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:35,080 Speaker 2: So keep your eye on this. And if I'm not mistaken, 744 00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:37,680 Speaker 2: they do in fact televise these cases down in Florida, 745 00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:40,960 Speaker 2: so well it might be for all of us to behold. 746 00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:45,480 Speaker 2: We'll see what happens. Until then, I'm Joseph Scott Morgan 747 00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:48,360 Speaker 2: and this is body backed