WEBVTT - Bethany Webster on Healing the Mother Wound 0:00:00.520 --> 0:00:02.920 Holy Human with Leanne Rhymes is a production of I 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:09.520 Heart Radio. Welcome everyone to a very special episode of 0:00:09.960 --> 0:00:14.000 Holy Human. I am joined by global expert Bethany Webster 0:00:14.160 --> 0:00:17.920 to discuss the mother Wound, something she believes we've all 0:00:18.000 --> 0:00:21.599 inherited to varying degrees. And I'm just warning you now 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:24.600 this is a very triggering episode. It was triggering for 0:00:24.640 --> 0:00:29.120 me to record, very very very emotional. So put on 0:00:29.120 --> 0:00:32.320 your seatbelts because it's quite a ride, and I do 0:00:32.400 --> 0:00:35.440 think a lot of you listening will have some moments, 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:39.160 maybe for the first time, we connect for a powerful 0:00:39.200 --> 0:00:42.560 and personal exploration of why this is a core wound 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:45.199 and how healing it helps us grow and emerge as 0:00:45.200 --> 0:01:11.040 our full selves. On today's Holy Human. Yeah, Bethany Webster, 0:01:11.200 --> 0:01:15.039 Welcome to the Holy Human podcast. Thank you so so 0:01:15.160 --> 0:01:17.479 much for joining us today. Oh, thank you so much 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:20.840 for having me. I've had so many mixed emotions before 0:01:20.959 --> 0:01:24.480 this conversation. I've literally been so excited. I feel like 0:01:24.560 --> 0:01:27.880 we could do three parts on this right, so much 0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:31.160 to talk about, and all of a sudden, before, like 0:01:31.200 --> 0:01:34.720 an hour before, I started to get really somber about 0:01:35.360 --> 0:01:38.400 everything because I'm kind of in the thick of what 0:01:38.440 --> 0:01:40.040 we're talking about right now. I mean, I've been in 0:01:40.240 --> 0:01:42.640 my whole life, but in the thick of kind of 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:45.640 setting boundaries and all that good stuff, which we'll get into, 0:01:45.720 --> 0:01:48.880 but it's, um, yeah, there's there's a lot of grief 0:01:48.920 --> 0:01:50.760 that's coming up for me in this moment, so I 0:01:51.400 --> 0:01:54.280 do um, I'm going to warn everyone there will be tears. 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:58.560 I'm almost positive. Yeah, Well, thank you for sharing that. 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:02.160 I really appreciate you being so like transparent and vulnerable 0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:05.200 because that is such a rich place to be when 0:02:05.200 --> 0:02:09.000 we're like really in touch with with what we're feeling 0:02:09.040 --> 0:02:12.200 and what we're experiencing. So I appreciate you opening with 0:02:12.240 --> 0:02:14.840 that absolutely. And by the way, feel free to ask 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:18.120 me anything. I'm totally I am an open book pretty much. 0:02:18.160 --> 0:02:22.960 So yeah, I'm curious. How did you hear about my work? 0:02:23.200 --> 0:02:25.919 If I'm correct, I think I just found you over 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:29.960 Instagram like somehow, Like you know, that's when the the 0:02:30.000 --> 0:02:33.880 algorithm actually does it, does me, does me good. Um, 0:02:34.160 --> 0:02:37.079 is when I find people like you and I've heard 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:40.400 about the mother wound and the work around it, and 0:02:40.600 --> 0:02:43.160 I know I've been inadvertently kind of doing my own 0:02:43.160 --> 0:02:45.440 work around it for a long time, a lot of 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:49.919 inner child work, and recently it's gone from a concept, 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:52.880 this kind of conceptualization of something to starting to be 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:58.040 an embodiment of truly understanding these concepts. And it's taken years. 0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:01.200 It's taken years and years. I'm so happy that your 0:03:01.240 --> 0:03:06.000 book is available and there's information about this work for 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:08.880 people to get their hands on. And by the way, 0:03:08.880 --> 0:03:10.720 I've sent your book to like every friend of mine, 0:03:10.800 --> 0:03:13.320 every woman that I know, and I think it's just 0:03:13.360 --> 0:03:15.519 so healing. So I would love to hear from you. 0:03:15.639 --> 0:03:21.000 How you came to this work. Yeah. Absolutely, I came 0:03:21.000 --> 0:03:24.080 to this work kind of circuitously. It was never anything 0:03:24.120 --> 0:03:27.200 I set out to do. Really, I thought I actually 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:30.079 had a perfect family, and it wasn't until college where 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:32.680 I started to have a lot of like symptoms that 0:03:32.720 --> 0:03:35.600 were telling a different story. And I was really lucky 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:39.680 at nineteen to find a really brilliant therapist who worked 0:03:39.680 --> 0:03:42.760 with me. I'm still working with her. That's awesome. Yeah, 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:45.880 her therapy it's it's called depth psychotherapy. So it's not 0:03:46.000 --> 0:03:48.840 like kind of run of the mill cognitive behavioral or anything. 0:03:48.840 --> 0:03:54.920 It's it's actually about long term reworking your attachment bomb. Basically, 0:03:55.080 --> 0:03:58.200 but I avoided looking at my mother and that relationship 0:03:58.240 --> 0:04:00.800 for years because honestly, and I think I suffer from 0:04:00.840 --> 0:04:03.360 something that so many of us do in this culture, 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:07.640 which is this like instant guilt right for anything that 0:04:07.680 --> 0:04:11.000 feels other than admiration for our mother's you know, I 0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:15.600 was kind of her caretaker emotional support from almost from birth. 0:04:15.640 --> 0:04:18.160 I felt really responsible for her, and I wanted to 0:04:18.400 --> 0:04:20.320 She struggled, and I wanted to make her happy. I 0:04:20.320 --> 0:04:23.080 wanted to please her. So in the family, I just 0:04:23.160 --> 0:04:26.679 kind of play this role of like absorbing everyone's pain 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:29.479 and trying to make everything okay for everyone, my dad, 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:32.040 my brother. You know, I was just like this little 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:35.800 sponge of like I'll just make everything better and that's 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:37.680 kind of how I'm going to survive, you know. And 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:40.080 then um, but then it all kind of fell apart 0:04:40.240 --> 0:04:42.359 and I started getting support. But I think it was 0:04:42.400 --> 0:04:46.560 like five years into being in therapy before I actually said, Okay, 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:49.080 I think I'm finally ready to look at this because 0:04:49.080 --> 0:04:52.320 I noticed that every area I looked at, whether it 0:04:52.360 --> 0:04:56.080 was like romantic relationships, which was repeating the same pattern 0:04:56.720 --> 0:04:58.520 basically what I had with my mother, I would show 0:04:58.600 --> 0:05:02.360 up in relationships as compulsively trying to be the healer, 0:05:02.400 --> 0:05:04.919 the mentor that you know, and so I'd attract these 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:09.800 potential partners in crisis or you know, starving artists types 0:05:09.960 --> 0:05:13.640 or whatever. And then um, then body image, so every 0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:17.080 area I had a piece of my mother in it, 0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:18.599 and I started to see it and be like, oh 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:20.960 my god, you know, I actually do have to look 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:23.000 at this because I could see that I was on 0:05:23.040 --> 0:05:27.280 a hamster wheel of the same patterns. So yes, I 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:29.760 feel someone could see me right now. I'm just I 0:05:29.839 --> 0:05:33.040 keep shaking my head. Yes, yes, I know. Every your book. 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:35.800 I was like, oh my god, I completely relate to 0:05:35.839 --> 0:05:39.760 everything that you're saying. And you know so much about 0:05:39.800 --> 0:05:43.880 the emotional caretaking. And then how for me what I's 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:46.760 been the most jarring as of recent is I thought 0:05:46.800 --> 0:05:50.320 I projected my daddy issues onto my husband, and I 0:05:50.680 --> 0:05:53.680 just recognized that it's not my daddy issues, it's my 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:59.119 mommy issues. That's a powerful moment. It's intense, and there's 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:02.240 so much green, like you see all the ways in 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:05.680 which you've used manipulation to get your needs met, and 0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:09.200 then you're like, holy shit, it's just an intense moment 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:11.440 and it's a beautiful moment too, because you have the 0:06:11.480 --> 0:06:15.280 opportunity to choose differently and to be able to have 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:18.760 these conversations. And I've just started having these with my husband. 0:06:18.839 --> 0:06:22.000 It's like, these are some deep conversations and we almost 0:06:22.040 --> 0:06:24.000 have to stop for a moment, take a break, and 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:26.920 I'm like, we'll come back to this. We'll come back 0:06:26.960 --> 0:06:29.360 to this. Yeah. But I mean, it's wonderful to have 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:32.839 someone that is open to sitting down and talking to 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:35.440 me and watching because he's he's been witnessed to this 0:06:35.520 --> 0:06:37.720 relationship that I've had with my mom for a long time, 0:06:37.760 --> 0:06:41.080 and he has seen how traumatic it has been for me. 0:06:41.160 --> 0:06:43.719 And it's not a new revelation that I'm coming to. 0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:47.080 It's just that now I'm I'm understanding it at a 0:06:47.120 --> 0:06:49.520 deeper level. So and as we're talking about this, I 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:51.840 guess we should define the mother wound and what that 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:53.479 is for people so they can kind of get a 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:57.320 better understanding of what we're really digging into. Sure, Yeah, 0:06:57.520 --> 0:06:59.560 so I define. You know, the word mother wound has 0:06:59.560 --> 0:07:01.520 been around, no one's really defined it. So I think 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:03.359 I've been the first one to really like set a 0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:06.000 firm definition of what is the mother wound. And I 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:09.320 actually see it like the biggest one is the personal level. Right, 0:07:09.560 --> 0:07:15.440 there's the internalized beliefs and patterns that are self limiting, right, 0:07:15.520 --> 0:07:18.240 that we inherit from our mother's Right, So it's the 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:21.080 unconscious ways that we limit ourselves, the way that we 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:23.400 feel bad about ourselves, we feel guilt, we feel shame, 0:07:23.960 --> 0:07:27.600 um that originate with her and originate past that it's 0:07:27.760 --> 0:07:31.320 generationally passed down totally. It's like this inherited wound that 0:07:31.360 --> 0:07:34.000 we all have to some degree. It's on a spectrum, right, 0:07:34.040 --> 0:07:37.800 for some people, our mothers are really more resilient and 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:40.400 more healthy and high functioning, and some mothers are, you know, 0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:42.080 on the other side of the spectrum where there's even 0:07:42.160 --> 0:07:45.280 mental illness or addiction or other challenges. So we all 0:07:45.320 --> 0:07:48.440 fall somewhere on this spectrum. And outside of the spectrum, 0:07:48.520 --> 0:07:51.440 which has a big impact is the culture, which is 0:07:51.480 --> 0:07:55.800 this cultural atmosphere of patriarchy. I define patriarchy very broadly. 0:07:56.080 --> 0:07:59.440 It really isn't about men. It's actually the principle of 0:07:59.480 --> 0:08:02.400 power over and the ways that this manifests. And for 0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:04.400 many of us, it's like we just feel that we 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:07.200 live in kind of an anti woman world where women 0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:09.560 are less sanned, so we get this message reinforced and 0:08:09.640 --> 0:08:12.280 millions of ways, and our mothers and grandmothers had to 0:08:12.320 --> 0:08:16.000 absorb that also in addition to their own family trauma 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:18.480 whatever they received. So what I like to say is 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:22.720 the most insidious forms of patriarchal oppression actually get passed 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:26.000 through the mother. And this is not to blame mothers 0:08:26.040 --> 0:08:28.720 at all. Actually it's to uplift them and respect them. 0:08:28.720 --> 0:08:31.200 But we have to see the ways that we don't 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:34.320 want to look at this and it's very unconscious, right, 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:38.120 It's about our blueprint of self. So the our mothers 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:42.080 are extremely influential and how we shape our identity, how 0:08:42.080 --> 0:08:46.319 we see our bodies, ourselves, the world, partners, other people. 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:49.840 So it's like our identity is shaped with our mothers 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:53.040 in the early days of our lives, and so becoming 0:08:53.080 --> 0:08:55.840 conscious of that, looking at what were the dynamics there 0:08:56.840 --> 0:09:01.680 is incredibly empowering in our healing liberal ration as women 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:04.800 as a whole, especially for women, because like how to 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:07.440 be a woman was really taught to us by our mothers, 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:09.680 you know, the dues and the don'ts and what's okay 0:09:09.679 --> 0:09:12.480 and what's not okay. It's such a significant impact our 0:09:12.520 --> 0:09:15.400 mothers have and so unfortunately we live in a society 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:17.400 though that says if you don't have anything other than 0:09:17.679 --> 0:09:20.959 complete love and admiration, there's something wrong with you. So 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:24.600 as women were shamed, we're shamed away from looking at 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:27.800 our healing. So this is the conundrum that we face. 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:31.120 To be honest, like, I thought about having this conversation 0:09:31.160 --> 0:09:32.520 with you, and I'm like, oh God, I hope my 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:35.120 mother doesn't listen to this in a way because and 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:38.360 and also you know, it's been interesting growing up um 0:09:38.400 --> 0:09:41.360 as this kind of yeah, you know, I started out 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:44.680 with a thirteen in front of everyone's eyes, and especially 0:09:44.720 --> 0:09:48.120 when your parents have played such an integrate role in 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:50.959 my career. At one point, it's like this respect and love, 0:09:51.080 --> 0:09:52.840 like you're saying you're supposed to have your family and 0:09:52.840 --> 0:09:55.320 this all American good girl, Like I just had it 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:59.840 going for me. You did it did and so it was. 0:10:00.320 --> 0:10:04.440 You know, it's this interesting piece for me to even 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:09.200 bring this up over my podcast because I think people 0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:12.240 have this idea of, you know, like you said, unless 0:10:12.280 --> 0:10:15.280 you have complete love and admiration for what my therapist 0:10:15.360 --> 0:10:18.480 calls the love object, which is you know, which is 0:10:18.520 --> 0:10:21.839 the mother. Um and there's there should be so much 0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:24.720 shame around me wanting to to bring this to the forefront. 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:29.800 And yeah, that shame keeps us locked into so many things, 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:32.480 and can we just talk about that shame piece. Let's 0:10:32.600 --> 0:10:35.720 go there. I would love to go there, yes, because 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:38.880 I feel like, for I know personally, like that shame 0:10:38.920 --> 0:10:43.760 has kept me so small for so long, and you know, 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:46.360 it keeps us from having this discussion. And I think 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:49.480 that honestly, I feel like this work is probably the 0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:52.640 most important work that we're called to do in this 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:56.840 lifetime because it really will shift everything, not just it 0:10:56.960 --> 0:10:59.920 was just shift as personally the culture. It will shift 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:02.480 you know, the way we treat our planet. There's such 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:05.440 a huge ripple effect from this work. So you know, 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:08.959 how can we when we talk about shame, How does 0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:11.480 shame start to fit into this work outside of what 0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:14.400 we've just discussed, Like, how is it so insidious? Yeah? 0:11:14.440 --> 0:11:16.880 I'm so excited that you went right to shame because 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:19.560 it really is at the bottom of like you know, 0:11:19.559 --> 0:11:21.560 I've been thinking about it lately a lot, even in 0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:25.040 my own process. Now, shame is really the bottom, you know, 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:27.480 it's it's really at the core of so many of 0:11:27.480 --> 0:11:30.520 the ways that we organize our lives to feel worthy 0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:33.400 and loved, like whatever, I call it the mother gap. 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:35.920 So whatever we didn't get from our mother's you know, 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:37.920 there's always a gap. Our mothers are human beings, right, 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:40.160 the gap between what we needed and what we got. 0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:44.200 And so often we can project that like gap outwards 0:11:44.760 --> 0:11:47.800 to our partners, bosses, you know, you name it. Love me, 0:11:48.000 --> 0:11:50.679 make me feel valued, And on some level we're running 0:11:50.720 --> 0:11:54.240 from this um shame at the bottom of everything, right, 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:57.320 And I like to think about shame in a context 0:11:57.320 --> 0:12:01.960 of developmental growth, right, Like for a child, if there's 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:05.200 some kind of disconnecting the attachment with the mother, the 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:10.360 child's gonna blame itself wrapped to preserve the connection with 0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:13.760 the parent, because it's too much for a child's brain 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:17.040 to process that my mom is not safe right now. 0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:21.000 So it gives it a sense of power and control 0:12:21.640 --> 0:12:24.280 um and a sense of safety to blame itself rather 0:12:24.320 --> 0:12:27.960 than see the mom. So it's basically we create an illusion. 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:30.320 It's very useful illusion in a way because it helps 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:34.720 us survive, right, But unfortunately it creates this illusion that 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:38.920 I'm bad, something's wrong with me, and there's a despair 0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:41.720 in that, you know, especially for those of us who 0:12:42.280 --> 0:12:45.920 experienced overt shaming, like many of us had mothers and 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:49.400 fathers who were really shaming, like you're bad, there's something 0:12:49.440 --> 0:12:53.040 wrong with you. Get away from me, those kind of messages. 0:12:53.520 --> 0:12:57.160 And sometimes it's just a subtle atmosphere of like it's 0:12:57.200 --> 0:12:59.080 not safe to speak my mind, it's not okay to 0:12:59.120 --> 0:13:02.720 have needs. Um, I should suppress my truth otherwise I'm 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:06.199 going to get in trouble. So, like you mentioned manipulation earlier, 0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:09.200 that's also a great survival mechanism, especially for those of 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:12.400 us who were women, you know, female children who it 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:16.400 wasn't safe to say no for example. Um, So shame 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:20.640 is it's like a useful survival tool that helps us 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:24.360 survive these really painful emotions as really young children. But 0:13:24.440 --> 0:13:30.040 it persists in the background, and if we don't address it, 0:13:30.040 --> 0:13:33.280 it can even into our adult lives. It can be 0:13:33.320 --> 0:13:36.600 impacting how we show up. Absolutely, you said something in 0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:38.480 the book that really blew my mind. You said, we 0:13:38.559 --> 0:13:41.559 hold onto shame in order to hold onto our mother 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:45.280 because feeling shame makes us feel mothered. And I literally 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:47.719 I was listening to the audiobook and I had to 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:51.319 stop the book. I was like, oh my god, that 0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:55.800 explains shame and the reason that we continue to hold 0:13:55.800 --> 0:13:59.040 onto it, especially for me having a relationship with my 0:13:59.120 --> 0:14:03.079 mom where I really don't have a close relationship. So 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:07.280 it's yeah, how is that evolved for you? Um, I'm 0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:08.960 sure you've done a lot of work. I mean it 0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:11.920 sounds like you've really like been super conscious and aware 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:15.680 and tried to do your best, which I admire. I have. 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:18.680 I have tried to do my best. Um, you know, 0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:22.160 there is a lot of emotional caretaking and you know, 0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:26.040 unfortunately there's a there's a need for me to fill 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:30.880 a hole that is just insatiable and it's kind of 0:14:30.960 --> 0:14:32.840 I think, I'm sure you can relate to this as 0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:36.720 the emotional caretaker in your family. That was always kind 0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:39.520 of who I was in the family. Like the role 0:14:39.560 --> 0:14:42.720 I served, yes exactly was that you know, I was 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:47.720 born to fill a hole. Talk about pressure, right, And 0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:50.200 it's still there and that's still kind of the relationship 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:53.560 that we've that's what it's been based upon, and I've 0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:57.120 really recognized recently that that is that's what it's been 0:14:57.160 --> 0:14:59.680 based upon. And I can't have that kind of relationship 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:02.600 and it up to my mother to take care of 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:06.840 her needs in order to be able to have a 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:10.480 relationship that's built upon anything other than that. And that's 0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:13.080 a really I just had this conversation and it was 0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:16.080 the It was so hard because I think, I see 0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:18.880 when I look at my mom, I see a child, 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:21.520 and I know I see that I know the child 0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:25.320 because I've had that in myself. I've experienced that, and 0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:29.040 I've been having to grow her up. I've been having 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:31.800 to grow my own child up to meet and be 0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:37.440 with the you know, adult Leanne, and I've I'm still 0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:40.280 growing her up and so in a lot of ways, 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:41.880 and so I can't grow my mother up at the 0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:45.880 same time. And that is the God that is the 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:49.080 most heartbreaking conversation. After I had it, I cried for 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:55.480 a day because I just I saw this helplessness and 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:59.640 it's so hard to hurt someone, especially when they're your mother, 0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:05.560 and to have boundaries in that way. And so, yes, 0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:09.280 so that's where I'm at. And it's been an up 0:16:09.280 --> 0:16:12.840 and down roller coaster ride of grief. Oh yes, which 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:16.440 I would love to touch upon. Yes, all right, Loves, 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:20.280 Before we dive any deeper into this complicated and personal dynamic, 0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:31.600 we're going to take a quick break. Welcome back, my friends. 0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:34.760 I'm talking to Bethany Webster about the complexities of our 0:16:34.800 --> 0:16:38.960 maternal relationships. Can we talk about how grief is such 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:44.280 a intricral part of healing the mother wound? Absolutely? Absolutely, 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:46.280 thank you so much for sharing that. I just want 0:16:46.280 --> 0:16:49.680 to say that I really commend your courage, because thank you. 0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:52.040 I mean, I've been where I've found that path, and 0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:54.080 I've seen so many women as well I helped them 0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:56.520 through that process of you know, it sounds like what 0:16:56.560 --> 0:16:59.960 you went through is and this is so about grief 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:04.840 is when we see the limitations of our mother's capacity. Right. 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:08.000 So in our culture, we're taught, oh, you know, if 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:11.080 you love someone should work or like, you know, there's 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:14.000 like no acknowledgment of the work it takes to have healthy, 0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:17.600 authentic relationships. And such a painful moment for an adult 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:21.480 daughter is to realize that our mothers have a limited 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:24.800 capacity of how they can meet us, and that ceiling 0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:28.560 is determined by the work that she's done in her 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:31.200 own life to be conscious, you know, to take care 0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:36.080 of herself. So whatever ways our moms feel deprived, owed, 0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:41.400 harmed and haven't worked on it themselves, they usually show 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:43.520 up in some way with the daughter as kind of 0:17:43.560 --> 0:17:46.199 with a check, like you know, this is what I need, 0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:48.359 and they don't even realize they're doing it. Most of 0:17:48.359 --> 0:17:50.960 the time, as humans, we just kind of project, but 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:53.240 we don't want to own, or we're not ready to own. 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:56.199 We project outwards. And so it can be such a 0:17:56.240 --> 0:18:00.399 powerful moment to to have, and it takes resilience to 0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:03.320 be in this position. Right, it took me so many 0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:05.600 years to do like exactly what we described. I mean, 0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:08.280 it probably took me ten years to be ready to 0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:12.080 actually have the conversation in a loving, respectful way, but 0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:14.440 you know, kind of like this isn't working and I'd 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:16.879 like to shift the dynamic. And what happened with my 0:18:16.920 --> 0:18:19.879 mom was she was so non resilient that she actually 0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:23.760 attacked me and kind of created this conspiracy theory. It's 0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:26.639 so weird, wild, but she had a conspiracy theory that 0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:32.280 my therapist was brainwashing me against her. So it was like, wow, 0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:35.359 I had that at one point. Also, Okay, yeah, it's 0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:37.639 more common I'm realizing than I when I realized at 0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:41.160 the time. But anyway, yeah, so the grief of realizing 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:44.119 this is my best this is my mother's best. She's 0:18:44.200 --> 0:18:46.840 literally showing me her best right now, and it's not 0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:50.840 going to get better. And I need to kind of 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:53.959 sit with that. And that is painful because a lot 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:56.280 of us carry this little inner child who's like, well, 0:18:56.320 --> 0:18:57.840 if I just do this or that, or if I 0:18:57.840 --> 0:19:00.320 explain myself better, or if I help her, if I 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:02.560 give her books, or you know, my mom's going to 0:19:02.640 --> 0:19:06.040 get it eventually, right, the impossible dream. Right, if I 0:19:06.080 --> 0:19:09.480 just do X, y Z, she will change finally and 0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:12.480 then we'll have this great relationship. Um. So yeah, the 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:16.320 grief is really where the change happens. I think if 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:21.639 we can sit with these feelings of sadness, even disappointment 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:23.800 and rage, and I mean, there's a whole slew of 0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:26.320 things that can come up, and so getting support is 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:30.040 really huge. But the good news is the grief leads 0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:33.120 to freedom because what's happening in the grieving processes where 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:36.160 in a way our brains are reorganizing, right, so we're 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:38.080 letting go of the old and we're making space for 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:41.120 something new to happen. And it's a whole I see 0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:44.400 grief as a really holy process that has its own timeline. 0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:46.320 We can't predict it. Or control it or make it 0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:48.240 end on a certain date as much as we might 0:19:48.240 --> 0:19:50.760 want to. But yeah, just being with it and has 0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:54.280 cycles and layers. It will deliver us to a new 0:19:54.440 --> 0:19:57.280 way of being right where we're not. We're no longer 0:19:57.320 --> 0:20:01.080 controlled by that dream aam of I need to be 0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:03.399 a good girl for mommy, to be good with myself. 0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:06.360 And what I see that happens in that process actually 0:20:06.440 --> 0:20:09.040 is this huge shift. It's like a tectonic shift in 0:20:09.040 --> 0:20:12.800 our self concept where our sense of self validation and 0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:16.040 self worth is no longer based on the outside, it 0:20:16.160 --> 0:20:18.480 starts to be based on the inside. So I was 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:20.879 actually just talking to someone this morning about this. She 0:20:21.000 --> 0:20:24.000 was like, I just realized my mother isn't going to change, 0:20:24.240 --> 0:20:26.800 and I'm going to start affirming myself first. Now I'm 0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:28.879 not going to wait for her to affirm me. And 0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:31.320 I was like, damn, there, It isn't like in action right, 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:35.320 When we can accept our mother's limitations, we can then 0:20:35.359 --> 0:20:40.000 embrace our own possibilities because they're no longer linked in 0:20:40.040 --> 0:20:43.160 the same way. It just makes sense. Oh yeah, completely. 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:45.160 I just had an experience and that I wrote about 0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:47.720 it on my blog. We were going to Father's Day dinner, 0:20:47.840 --> 0:20:49.880 and I knew I had to get ready, but though 0:20:49.880 --> 0:20:52.600 I really wanted to swim, and I jumped in the 0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:56.959 pool and allowed myself to swim, and if growing up, 0:20:57.000 --> 0:20:58.480 my mom woke me up an hour and a half 0:20:58.520 --> 0:21:00.240 early to do my hair for school. It was like 0:21:00.280 --> 0:21:03.159 the way she did things, and I so just didn't, 0:21:03.560 --> 0:21:06.480 you know, didn't want to be done all the time. 0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:08.479 And I had to because when I was working, so 0:21:08.520 --> 0:21:10.080 I had to always get dressed and I had to 0:21:10.160 --> 0:21:12.359 avoid It was like Leanne can't go play because she 0:21:12.400 --> 0:21:14.240 has to go work and she has to be pretty 0:21:14.400 --> 0:21:17.359 and present herself to the world in a certain way. 0:21:17.480 --> 0:21:19.399 And I got my hair wet and I let myself 0:21:19.480 --> 0:21:22.359 swim and everything still worked out and I still looked fine. 0:21:22.440 --> 0:21:25.480 But it was in those moments I recognized I was 0:21:25.560 --> 0:21:28.000 mothering myself in the way that I needed to be 0:21:28.080 --> 0:21:30.239 mothered as a kid, or desired to be mothered as 0:21:30.280 --> 0:21:34.440 a kid. And it's so simple, but I was asking 0:21:34.560 --> 0:21:36.520 people reading, like how are you how are you getting 0:21:36.520 --> 0:21:39.159 your hair wet? Like what are you not allowing yourself 0:21:39.480 --> 0:21:44.000 to do that? Your inner child is like so desperately 0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:47.200 longing for And those are where I feel like those 0:21:47.240 --> 0:21:51.840 embodiment pieces really start to to play into how we're 0:21:51.840 --> 0:21:54.480 rewiring our brains and how we're mothering ourselves and how 0:21:54.480 --> 0:21:58.080 we're changing our lives and allowing for freedom. You know, 0:21:58.200 --> 0:22:02.119