WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Isdal Woman 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:03.600 Hey guys, Steve here, you are listening to one of 0:00:03.600 --> 0:00:06.600 our original twenty six episodes. If you listen to any 0:00:06.640 --> 0:00:09.280 of our new episodes, you're gonna notice that we're sounding 0:00:09.320 --> 0:00:11.639 a little different in these ones. Yeah, there's a reason 0:00:11.680 --> 0:00:14.480 for that. There is they've been remastered. They have been 0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:18.040 remastered because they had a really annoying hum. Yeah, I 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:21.480 mean a huge thanks to listener James for doing almost 0:00:21.520 --> 0:00:23.880 all of the legwork on this thing. They'll also notice 0:00:23.880 --> 0:00:25.880 if you had listened to what we're calling the last 0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:29.639 twenty six episodes before and you're re listening now, the 0:00:29.800 --> 0:00:33.160 music and sound effects are gone. Yes, we've we've gone 0:00:33.159 --> 0:00:35.720 back to straight audio, so be warned. We sound a 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:38.040 little different today than we do in what you're about 0:00:38.040 --> 0:00:47.320 to listen to. Yeah, bye bye, Thinking Sideways. I don't understand. 0:00:50.080 --> 0:00:57.240 You never know stories of things. We simply don't know 0:00:57.320 --> 0:01:02.400 the answer too. Well. Hello there, welcome to another episode 0:01:02.400 --> 0:01:06.759 of Thinking Sideways, the podcast fast distinct from Thinking Thinking Sideways, 0:01:06.840 --> 0:01:09.880 the movie, Thinking Sideways, the novel. This is the podcast. 0:01:10.959 --> 0:01:15.319 So I am joined by on my right and on 0:01:15.360 --> 0:01:18.600 my left, actually straight in front of me, Steve. Yeah, okay, 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:21.559 so the gang's all here and we're gonna talk about 0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:26.399 something very mysterious, unresolved mystery from the nineteen seventies. It 0:01:26.560 --> 0:01:28.520 is for some of you may have even heard of this, 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:32.360 the case of the woman. The ideal woman was found 0:01:32.440 --> 0:01:37.880 dead in late November nineteen seventy near a town called Bergen, Norway, 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:41.959 in what's called the Idlin Valley. The valley sort of 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:44.479 tapers down towards this mount colt in this mountain called 0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:49.200 Mount Olrican, which is to the northeast of Bergen, and 0:01:49.560 --> 0:01:51.240 on the on the that side of the mountain, it's 0:01:51.280 --> 0:01:54.760 called the Valley of Death. Yeah, I was gonna. I 0:01:54.800 --> 0:01:57.720 was waiting for the connection of how Joe might have 0:01:57.720 --> 0:02:00.840 found this story. Yeah, it's kind of thing for the 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:04.080 death death. Yeah. I just go and type in value 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:07.560 of death, mountain of death, the river of death, Yeah, 0:02:07.880 --> 0:02:10.480 leg of death, creak of death, total of death, you know, 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:14.320 and I always find something. So November twenty nine, on 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:18.600 the foothills of Mouth ol Rican, a man who's apparently 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:21.239 a professor and his two daughters were hiking and it 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:24.800 came across the remains of a naked woman who had 0:02:24.800 --> 0:02:28.000 been hitting among some rocks. He was partially burned. There 0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:32.920 were some empty bottles bottles was smelled of gasoline nearby, 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:37.400 also a bottle of sleeping pills. So they I don't 0:02:37.400 --> 0:02:39.360 know if they finished their hik er not. Presumably they 0:02:39.360 --> 0:02:41.399 walked back to town and got the police. Yeah, yeah, 0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:45.000 I would think so. And by the way, this place 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:47.880 is called the value of death because there there's a 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:50.040 lot of trails there, which some of which apparently according 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:52.000 to a website I was reading about that was totally 0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:54.840 separate from this entire thing. Uh, some of the trails 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:57.959 are not very well maintained and it's considered rather treacherous. 0:02:57.960 --> 0:02:59.320 So that's why it's called the value of death, not 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:02.440 because parposes are cond up there all the time. So anyway, 0:03:02.440 --> 0:03:05.120 I saw the police show up, and this winds up 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:07.720 being the biggest criminal case at the Bergen Police. It's 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:10.120 it's not a huge town by any means, and the 0:03:10.800 --> 0:03:18.359 right and now it's normally yeah, yeah, it's all the same. Ye. 0:03:19.120 --> 0:03:22.200 So anyway I mentioned they found some plastic bottles wreaking 0:03:22.200 --> 0:03:26.000 of gasoline, and they also found out partially burned passport 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:29.080 and again the sleeping pills. She also and had turned 0:03:29.120 --> 0:03:32.720 out that upon upon the autopsy, that she had some 0:03:32.760 --> 0:03:35.560 of those pills in her so she had taken a 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:38.160 couple of pills. She had taken she had taken several 0:03:38.200 --> 0:03:41.080 of these things. Yes, some more interesting things. I mentioned 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:43.720 the passport and the sleeping pills. And this is one 0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:45.720 of those those deleos where I really really would like 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:47.760 to be able to see the actual police reports, because 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:49.600 you know that what I've been able to round up 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:52.520 is kind of spotty. For example, the body is was naked, right, 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:55.839 so were there any clothes nearby? There's no mention made 0:03:55.840 --> 0:04:01.200 of that clothes because you said she had been burned? 0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:05.839 Correct her body? Selene connection is yeah, her body, Yeah, 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:08.800 he had been partially burned. That presumably they don't say 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:11.240 what parts were burned, but presumably her It must have 0:04:11.280 --> 0:04:14.880 been her head because they weren't not able to take 0:04:14.920 --> 0:04:17.839 any photographs of her face to show to people because 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:20.240 there was nothing recognizable. Yeah, apparently they were not able 0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:22.440 to get a photograph out of the passport that they 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:24.760 found because I had probably apparently been burned. Also, it's 0:04:24.760 --> 0:04:28.320 probably once burned. So anyway, they had a problem with 0:04:28.720 --> 0:04:31.400 how to identify this person. Her Her fingerprints have been 0:04:31.400 --> 0:04:35.400 sanded off U And you did you ever find what 0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:38.320 I was looking through this, I could ever find were 0:04:38.360 --> 0:04:41.520 they stand it off prior to death or had they 0:04:41.600 --> 0:04:45.280 been sanded off, you know, weeks in advance. I could 0:04:45.279 --> 0:04:47.720 never he was never able to pin down was just 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:51.919 like done to her after she was killed? You know, 0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:53.560 one of the one of the little one of the 0:04:53.560 --> 0:04:55.880 little fragments of evidence that's in here leads me to 0:04:55.920 --> 0:04:58.400 believe it happened after she was killed. But you know, 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:00.960 there are people who are criminal pipes who don't want 0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:03.600 to leave fingerprints prints behind, and they do stand off 0:05:03.600 --> 0:05:06.360 their fingerprints. It's not it's not totally uncommon. You can 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:09.520 either use sandpaper or acid to get rid of those fingerprints. 0:05:09.360 --> 0:05:12.159 As as far as when they were standing off later on, 0:05:12.240 --> 0:05:14.240 they found they found some luggage, I'll get to that, 0:05:14.279 --> 0:05:17.080 but they found some sharts, some pieces of glass in 0:05:17.200 --> 0:05:20.279 the luggage and had it had partial fingerprints on the glass, 0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:24.760 and police reportedly believed that those were her fingerprints. So 0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:27.120 they were never able to use those to identify her. 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:31.880 But if police believe that they were fingerprints, then that 0:05:31.880 --> 0:05:34.280 that makes me believe that somebody must have standed off 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:38.880 her fingers after the murderer. Yeah, yeah, so so, But 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:41.080 again I'm not a hundred percent share. Again, you know, 0:05:41.120 --> 0:05:43.320 like as as with all of these things, you know, 0:05:43.560 --> 0:05:47.240 a little straight backtoys that aren't really actually true managed 0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:49.680 to get worked into the story by other people. And 0:05:49.800 --> 0:05:52.200 so so as far as the pieces of glass with 0:05:52.240 --> 0:05:53.920 the fingerprints, I don't know if that's true or not. 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:56.200 Who knows if any of this is true, who does it? 0:05:56.279 --> 0:05:59.599 Norway even exists. It might be a big old house 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:03.560 I've never Yeah. Okay, so by way, as I said, 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:06.560 she had an they did an autopsy on her. She 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:10.080 had suffered blunt force trauma to the neck. And this 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:12.640 is this was apparently the cause of death, or if 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:15.200 not the cause of death, then certainly a contributed to it. 0:06:15.480 --> 0:06:20.120 Then again, they discovered several sleeping pills in her inner system. Uh, 0:06:20.200 --> 0:06:22.440 they looked at her teeth, and they tried to find 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:25.520 her using her dental records, and they that came back. No, 0:06:25.839 --> 0:06:28.200 they were not able to identify her that way. There 0:06:28.279 --> 0:06:30.719 was evidence that she had had some dental work done 0:06:30.760 --> 0:06:36.640 in Latin America. How you know this is this is 0:06:36.680 --> 0:06:39.000 against something I know that like certain things like you know, 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:41.080 for example, if you get dental work done in Russia, 0:06:41.680 --> 0:06:44.120 it's kind of obvious apparently because it's kind of crude 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:47.359 and it might be you know, And I was not 0:06:47.440 --> 0:06:49.880 able to find out how they knew there was anything 0:06:49.920 --> 0:06:52.560 to do with Latin America unless customarily in Latin America 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:57.080 perhaps they use different materials for fillings or techniques, different techniques. Yeah, 0:06:57.279 --> 0:06:59.880 that's so, I don't know. Yeah, that was again, that 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:02.479 was one of those things I questioned, how do you 0:07:02.680 --> 0:07:06.200 how did you make that connection because it's not stated anywhere. Yeah. Yeah, 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:09.000 So anyway, enough of the dental work. They I'm going 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:11.440 to skip ahead of the ending. They eventually wind up 0:07:11.520 --> 0:07:15.280 concluding that she committed suicide. Yeah, now this is this 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:18.840 is somewhat controversial, but let me get back to their 0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:22.440 investigation though. They first of all, they were asking around 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:24.720 all the people she stayed at several hotels. She had 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:27.560 actually come and gone to the town of Bergen several 0:07:27.560 --> 0:07:30.320 times and meanwhile gone off and traveled around Europe a 0:07:30.360 --> 0:07:33.520 little bit returning, and while she was there, she tended 0:07:33.520 --> 0:07:36.640 to change hotels often and often sometimes within hotels she 0:07:36.640 --> 0:07:41.280 would change rooms. So interesting behaviors. Yeah, so they the 0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:44.560 police asked around at all the hotels. Um, they got 0:07:44.760 --> 0:07:47.480 descriptions from people and based on the bone structure they 0:07:47.480 --> 0:07:50.080 were able to see in her face from the autopsy 0:07:50.080 --> 0:07:53.240 and everything, and paying that up with with a police sketch, 0:07:53.360 --> 0:07:57.120 artists and descriptions that hotel employees gave them various other people, 0:07:57.120 --> 0:07:59.120 they were able to put together a composite sketch of 0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:03.560 this person and show that around to people. So anyway, 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:07.360 they continue with their investigation. Eventually that eventually it led 0:08:07.400 --> 0:08:10.320 them to the train station in Bergen, where they found 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:14.840 in a locker then two suitcases that belonged to this woman. Yeah, 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:19.760 I know it sounds so it's so much like I know, 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:26.080 you related, maybe yeah, all right, was this a girlfriend? 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:32.200 She was murder Yeah something shrude, But anyway, I haven't checked. Actually, 0:08:32.200 --> 0:08:33.840 I need to get a globe out and find out if, 0:08:33.880 --> 0:08:36.880 like if like this town in Norway is exactly exactly 0:08:36.920 --> 0:08:39.960 on the opposite side of the earth from Adelaide's. It 0:08:40.040 --> 0:08:44.840 was Adelaide, Australia where he was found, right, Yeah, So anyway, 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:47.400 they go, they find these suitcases. Major fine, but then 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:50.040 they find to their sugarun that the labels had all 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:52.439 been removed from all the clothing. Yeah, I know, I know, 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:56.319 no labels. They found a bottle of lotion which was 0:08:56.360 --> 0:09:00.600 apparently prescription only, but the the label had been peeled off, 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:04.120 and in the line of one suitcase they discovered five 0:09:04.600 --> 0:09:08.200 German marks have been sewn in the orange thread of 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:14.720 a weird type. Yeah. So they found a few pieces 0:09:14.720 --> 0:09:17.199 of broken glass. Why you keep broken glass in your suitcase? 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:19.400 It is kind of beyond me. But they found these 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:21.200 are the ones I mentioned earlier. And they found partial 0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:24.560 fingerprints on those pieces of glass which they believed could 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:26.360 be hers, and but they were not able to use 0:09:26.400 --> 0:09:28.840 those to identify her. Again, this this leads me to 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:30.800 believe that her fingerprints must have been standing off the 0:09:30.800 --> 0:09:33.280 scene of the crime. Although you know, maybe they ran 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:34.960 out of gasoline. You think they could pour gas on 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:36.360 her hands and just light them on fire and be 0:09:36.360 --> 0:09:39.959 a lot easier than than standing her hands. Yeah, this 0:09:40.040 --> 0:09:44.160 is this is obviously a murder and the suicide theory 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:46.439 that came up by the police, and I'm going to 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:50.000 discount that right away because I don't take sleeping pills 0:09:50.040 --> 0:09:52.240 and then throw myself onto a rock and bang my 0:09:52.280 --> 0:09:56.120 head and then let myself while I'm naked. This just 0:09:56.160 --> 0:10:00.280 doesn't make sense. So I could see if some buddy 0:10:00.840 --> 0:10:05.240 botched burning the body. Then they would go for Okay, 0:10:05.280 --> 0:10:10.000 what else can I do? Saying the fingerprints off seems 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:13.480 like a hard way to do it, rather than and 0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:16.480 I'm sorry, this is gruesome dropping the hands off. Chopping 0:10:16.480 --> 0:10:19.480 the hands off, Yeah, that's true, that would be easier 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:21.560 way to take care of the problem. But then getting 0:10:21.600 --> 0:10:23.760 you got to get rid of the hand. Yeah. Maybe 0:10:23.840 --> 0:10:26.920 maybe they forgot to bring their hatchet. Maybe, yeah, but luckily, 0:10:27.280 --> 0:10:30.640 luckily they thought they thought to bring their sandpaper. Yeah, 0:10:32.280 --> 0:10:33.800 it could very well be. And meant, what a lot 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:36.240 of people don't realize about about human bodies is that 0:10:36.320 --> 0:10:39.280 they're almost all water. And then then actually burning a 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:41.800 human body, it's a lot harder than than it seems. 0:10:41.920 --> 0:10:44.520 It's very difficult. Yeah, And so they probably had a 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:46.400 couple of bottles of gas. They threw them on there, 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:48.160 and then she just didn't, you know, go up in 0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:50.400 flames like they had hoped, And so they had the 0:10:50.720 --> 0:10:53.400 Unfortunately they had no gas left over to torture hands with. 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:55.839 One of them had to go back to town to 0:10:55.880 --> 0:10:59.480 the hardware store a gets the sandpaper. Yeah, yeah, okay, 0:10:59.480 --> 0:11:03.560 all right, yeah, this is weird. Yeah. Anyway, So, so 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:07.080 on the basis of all the various witnesses who had 0:11:07.080 --> 0:11:08.600 met this woman. They were, like I said, be able 0:11:08.600 --> 0:11:12.200 to put together a composite sketch. And they were. They 0:11:12.200 --> 0:11:15.720 were publishing the local papers and they were also disseminated 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:20.400 across Europe via Interpoal and they were able to actually 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:23.880 put together quite a quite a bit of her travel 0:11:23.960 --> 0:11:27.679 itinerary between between the interpoal and between the various inquiries 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:31.000 but police made and also they found a diary that 0:11:31.120 --> 0:11:37.240 had some coded stuff, coded references broke and the broken. Yeah, yeah, 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:40.240 they broke code, not the diary. So they were able 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:43.160 to decipher some of some of this and and sort 0:11:43.160 --> 0:11:46.719 of figure out her travel itinerary. Uh. They found out 0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:49.280 that she had traveled around Norway and across Europe with 0:11:49.280 --> 0:11:51.840 with eight or nine different identities, different names, and she 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:58.319 gave yeah a lot of names. Yeah, seriously is according 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:00.880 to some reports in the lugger they found a bunch 0:12:00.920 --> 0:12:03.520 of a bunch of different passports from different countries, all 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:06.760 different names. I don't I'm kind of discounting that because 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:09.600 if they had kind of passports, they would have had photos, ever, 0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:11.480 and they wouldn't have needed to put together a composite 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:14.800 sketch that's good. I hadn't even made that connection. That's 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:17.520 a great point. Yeah, so they have they discovered all 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:20.839 these different names that she had signed into hotels using 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:23.080 and stuff like that. But he was using again police 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:26.439 inquiries in her diary. So she went to let's see 0:12:26.480 --> 0:12:29.920 she she was in March nineteen seventies. She was in Norway, 0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:33.360 stayed in Oslo, went to Bergen's, stayed at the Hotel 0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:37.320 Bristol under two different names and Alslo. She used Genevieve 0:12:37.400 --> 0:12:40.960 Lancier and then she was Claudia Tilt in the Bergen 0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:44.320 uh and then moves to the hotel Scandia, same name, 0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:47.880 and then goes and then winds up leaving Bergen and 0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:51.560 traveling eventually to Germany, stays there for months, and then 0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:56.439 eventually got back to Oslo in October or October after 0:12:56.559 --> 0:12:58.360 after staying there for a brief amount of time, she 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:00.920 went up going to Paris, stayed a couple of different 0:13:00.920 --> 0:13:03.920 hotels in Paris, and then eventually made her way back 0:13:03.960 --> 0:13:07.079 to Bergen, Norway. Got there at the end of October, 0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:10.480 where she stayed again another hotel and her get another name, 0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:15.200 and then left Bergen and then wound up coming back 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:17.640 under and staying at a hotel and her get another name. 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:21.080 While she was in Oslo, she stayed, she said, an 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:23.640 hotel ender a named the name of very Yarrel. She 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:27.120 gets the stabbonger. She stays at hotel called Vanilla Lorch. 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:30.760 Eventually gets back to Bergen, stays at the hotel Rosenkrantz 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:33.800 using the name Elizabeth Lean Howard. She had a lot 0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:36.360 of names. She had a lot of names. Uh. So 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:40.800 on the on the morning number she left the hotel, 0:13:41.040 --> 0:13:43.520 she paid, she signed up, paid in cash and asked 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:46.839 for a taxi. She apparently went to the railway station, 0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:48.920 which is where she once she dropped off her two 0:13:48.920 --> 0:13:51.520 pieces of luggage and she and that was the last day, 0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:53.480 but he saw her alive. Her body was found six 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:56.400 days later. So back to her mini names. She also 0:13:56.520 --> 0:13:58.600 used whigs. They found wigs in the luggage and some 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:00.240 of the some of the people at the hotel said 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:03.679 they had seen her wearing various wigs, according to some accounts. 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:06.959 In the luggage they also found eyeglasses non prescription, probably 0:14:07.040 --> 0:14:11.319 used just for altering her appearances. Yeah uh and again 0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:15.040 the diary with the cryptic entries. Witnesses said also that 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:18.840 she had spoken several languages, French, German, English, and Dutch. She, 0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:21.640 as I said, stayed in many hotels and many often 0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:24.960 changed rooms. She usually in signing it would indicate that 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:28.480 she was a traveling saleswoman and an antiquities collector, which 0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:32.960 is suspicious, not really, but uh yeah. They described her 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:38.120 as thirty of those antiquity well, that seems to be 0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:42.040 the standard cover for spies, and oh yeah, don't you 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:46.040 watch movies. Okay, So anyway, according to the staff at 0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:51.520 the hotels, she was described as as thirty forty years old, attractive, 0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:55.200 about five ft four or five ft five, with white hipps, 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:58.800 small eyes, and that's about she's They said that she 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:01.320 uh see to be kind of on her guard and 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:03.440 stayed in a room a lot. They took the clothing 0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:05.560 in the suitcases, which of course didn't have any labels 0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:07.600 in it, but they showed her to some clothing retailers 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:09.120 and all they were able to say is that it 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:12.920 appeared to be Italian clothing, so apparently she had a 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:15.840 taste for Italian clothes. There was a connection. She had 0:15:15.840 --> 0:15:20.520 been witness witnessed hanging out with apparently an Italian photographer 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:22.680 whose name eludes me at the moment. But anyway, this 0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:26.400 is this photographer supposedly had given her a lift, according 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:29.600 to some accounts, had had dinner with her. One other 0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:32.200 accounts said she spent the night with him. And so 0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:35.520 again some of those funny little factoids that worked their 0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:39.800 way in to the story. So anyway, the police interviewed him. 0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:42.520 He said that the woman said she came from a 0:15:42.520 --> 0:15:46.040 small town north of Johanasburg, South Africa, and that's a 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:49.560 that's a hard accent to fake. That would be a 0:15:49.600 --> 0:15:53.280 South African accent is a hard one to fake. Yeah, 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:56.360 But I swear when I was reading on this that 0:15:56.440 --> 0:16:01.640 people said she had a quote unquote unplaceable accent if 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:06.000 she was flu what was it three four fe German, French, 0:16:06.080 --> 0:16:08.640 Flemish and Dutch. I think yeah, so she had she 0:16:08.680 --> 0:16:11.320 had a lot of languages under her belt, which will 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:15.080 mute out an accent on its own, And so it 0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:17.760 might that might be why they said I can't place 0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:21.440 this accent, because if that's where we're presuming that she 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:23.720 was telling the truth, or this guy is telling the truth, 0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:25.920 If that's where she came from, then she learns all 0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:28.720 these other languages, she's gonna water down that accent just 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:34.880 unintentionally or intentionally, nobody's gonna know what she sounds like. Yeah, well, 0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:37.160 it's also quite possible this is northern Europe too, and 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:41.000 and Afrikaans accents is probably an unusual one that most 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:44.000 people wouldn't recognize as opposed to you know, say, German 0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:46.920 French accent, that kind of thing. That could be another 0:16:46.960 --> 0:16:51.920 another possibility anyway, besides the Italians saying that she had 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:56.160 been was from near Johannesburg. She told him that she 0:16:56.240 --> 0:16:59.320 had six months to hang out in Norway and didn't 0:16:59.520 --> 0:17:02.120 didn't be lie right on that anymore. Um, and so 0:17:02.200 --> 0:17:04.760 that's about all he knew. So that was kind of 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:07.720 a dead end. So on she checked out of her room, 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:09.720 she paid in cash, as I said, and was never 0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:14.159 seen again alive. And the the only other part of 0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:16.719 the story, well as a couple of other parts, supposedly 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:19.560 thirty two years after the fact, local twenty six year 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:22.000 old man twenty six years old at the time, I 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:24.879 was hiking around the same area with some friends, and 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:26.919 I'm kind of discounting this because I mean, the guy 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:32.000 waits thirty two years to come forward. It's like, you know, yeah, 0:17:32.040 --> 0:17:33.960 but I'm gonna go ahead and tell his story. Anyway. 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:37.600 So on two November that was that would be at 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:39.800 the day after she checked out of the hotel. This 0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:43.000 guy was hiking with friends in this in that area 0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:47.160 and supposedly came across a woman of foreign appearance who 0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:52.000 was her face was distorted by fear. He said. Um. 0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:54.520 He said he was that she was dressed elegantly and 0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:58.280 very inappropriately for hiking, so and and that seemed a 0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:01.760 little bit mysterious to him. And what does elegantly mean, 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:05.800 like a horrible gown or something like, Yeah, I'm thinking 0:18:05.840 --> 0:18:08.639 at least address if nothing, if nothing else, maybe not 0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:11.560 a you know, big poopy prom dress, but just address 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:16.040 in general. Yeah. Yeah, So anyway, so he sees her, 0:18:16.119 --> 0:18:19.240 she looks, she looks very scared, and it's dressed in 0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:23.240 formal wear. And they passed each other, and she said 0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:25.040 she she moved her mouth as if she was going 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:28.560 to say something, but then I decided apparently not to um. 0:18:28.640 --> 0:18:31.760 And also she was being followed by two black coated 0:18:31.760 --> 0:18:35.080 men who also looked for and yeah, I know, I know. 0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:38.280 Did he did he report that to the police, not 0:18:38.520 --> 0:18:41.280 until after the body was discovered. And this is the 0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:44.000 thing that I find kind of incredible about it, and said, so, 0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:46.000 this is guys, this is a young guy twenty six 0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:49.760 years old with friends. She's all by herself being followed 0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:51.520 by some guys that are going to murder her. Why 0:18:51.560 --> 0:18:53.840 doesn't she just like say, hey, guys, I'm gonnah with you? 0:18:53.880 --> 0:18:58.560 Is that okay? Seriously? And wouldn't you do that? Sure 0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:01.040 as hell would That's another reason I don't really buy 0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:03.639 this story. But apparently after you heard about the murder, 0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:06.480 you contacted the police and he recognized her from the 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:09.600 composite drawings they saw in the newspaper. But he said 0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:13.320 that the policeman that he spoke to basically said, quote, 0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:15.960 forget her. She was dispatched the case, the case will 0:19:15.960 --> 0:19:19.080 never be solved, and so he basically took that advice 0:19:19.119 --> 0:19:21.960 and forgot about it, and then thirty two years later 0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:24.960 apparently decided to come forward about it. Yeah. I know 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:27.280 it's a little fishy, so I'm not I'm not really 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:29.800 buying this. Yeah. I thought i'd showed in there because 0:19:29.840 --> 0:19:33.240 it's just part of the legend. Yeah, Yeah, that sounds 0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:37.399 thanky to me. Yeah. There was a Norwegian television network 0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:39.320 did a little story on it in two thousand two. 0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:43.240 According to them, um Special Branch, which is apparently Norwegian 0:19:43.280 --> 0:19:46.520 intelligence was was involved in this case, they claim, and 0:19:46.560 --> 0:19:49.200 that might be when this this this guy came forward, 0:19:49.200 --> 0:19:51.800 because two thousand two, that's about thirty two years after 0:19:51.840 --> 0:19:54.480 the case. He might have been part of it. The story. 0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:58.280 I didn't see the obviously, the television story about it. 0:19:58.320 --> 0:19:59.840 I just heard about it the papers and I didn't 0:19:59.840 --> 0:20:02.720 see and he mentioned that this guy in the newspaper articles. 0:20:02.760 --> 0:20:06.080 But according to this special Branch was involved. And even 0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:09.000 though apparently the police were followed following some promising leads, 0:20:09.040 --> 0:20:12.400 Special Branch basically told them to cut off the investigation 0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:15.600 and just label its suicide. So this is this is 0:20:15.640 --> 0:20:18.320 what they said. Oh so, so what they're saying is 0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:21.479 basically they were they were told what the answer was 0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:24.560 and just to let it be. Yeah, basically not to 0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:26.480 follow it any further. Although I guess that, you know, 0:20:26.560 --> 0:20:29.800 goes along with that young man's story, right, I mean, 0:20:30.920 --> 0:20:34.679 I guess there are some circumstances in which you don't 0:20:35.200 --> 0:20:37.680 speak up, like, you know, maybe those guys behind her 0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:39.840 had guns and she knew it and she didn't want 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:45.320 to you know. Yeah, I mean not just that, but 0:20:45.960 --> 0:20:48.920 you know, involve a lot of innocence, right, Like it's 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:50.520 not going to save her life, it's just going to 0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:56.080 get other people killed. Yeah, that's that's true. That's very noble. Ever. 0:20:56.200 --> 0:21:00.280 But but another thing I find incredible about us story 0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:03.320 is that the cop would say something like you forget 0:21:03.320 --> 0:21:05.240 her the case was ever be solved, you know, the cop. 0:21:05.320 --> 0:21:07.760 If the cop was truly being warned off by Special Branch, 0:21:07.760 --> 0:21:09.600 wouldn't he say something like, well, thanks for the info, 0:21:09.640 --> 0:21:12.159 ser on put in the file, not say something. But 0:21:12.240 --> 0:21:15.040 if the guy, if the guy comes forward and he 0:21:15.040 --> 0:21:19.080 he tells somebody and then they keep acting as if 0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:21.800 they've got no other information, and he pipes up again 0:21:22.640 --> 0:21:25.119 and he says, well, I talked to you know, Officer 0:21:25.200 --> 0:21:28.120 Qualsky over there, and he, you know, he took my statement, 0:21:28.280 --> 0:21:33.600 and then quality, uh, you know, it makes this it 0:21:33.760 --> 0:21:37.760