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Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vandercamp. I'm a mother of five,

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Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah Hart Hunger.

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Speaker 1: I'm a mother of three, a practicing physician and blogger.

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Speaker 1: On the side, we are two working parents who love

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Speaker 1: our careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds.

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Speaker 1: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family,

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Speaker 1: and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping

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Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get

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Speaker 1: the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds.

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Speaker 1: This is Laura. This is episode two hundred and sixty,

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Speaker 1: which is first airing in late July of twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 1: I am interviewing Mary Laura Philpott, who is the author

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Speaker 1: of Bomb Shelter, which is a new memoir that is

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Speaker 1: out this summer. She is also the author of the

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Speaker 1: memoir I Miss You When I Blink, which I know

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Speaker 1: a lot of our listeners have read and enjoyed. Her book,

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Speaker 1: Bomb Shelter was selected for the Modern Missus Dark c

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Speaker 1: Summer book Club. I'm reading Died I Guess So. I

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Speaker 1: know that a lot of people have come to know

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Speaker 1: Mary Laura's work through that, so we are excited to

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Speaker 1: talk with her talk about what you know, Bomb Shelter

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Speaker 1: is about, you know, what her writing process is like,

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Speaker 1: lots of great things that we talked about. So, speaking

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Speaker 1: of summer reading, Sarah, how is your summer reading going.

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Speaker 1: My summer reading is going really really well. I hit

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Speaker 1: a big reading slump this year around like March April,

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Speaker 1: and then I I think I wrote like I'm having

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Speaker 1: a comeback to the end of April, and my reading

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Speaker 1: has come back and I'm super happy about it. I

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Speaker 1: just finished my sixth book in June, which is for

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Speaker 1: me a little bit higher than my normal rate of

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Speaker 1: finishing books. I think I read two nonfiction and four novels.

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Speaker 1: Actually I guess one of them was a memoir because

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Speaker 1: one of them was Mary Laura Philpotts I Miss You

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Speaker 1: When I Blink, which I really liked. It was super cute,

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Speaker 1: so I'm very excited. I haven't heard this episode yet,

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Speaker 1: so I'll be dying to listen to it. And I've

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Speaker 1: been writing down when I read every day on this

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Speaker 1: little list, which has been kind of motivating for me.

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Speaker 1: And I have been making good use of my Kindle,

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Speaker 1: which I dug out of obscurity in a drawer and

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Speaker 1: it's still charged and worked, and I've been using the

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Speaker 1: Libby app, so kind of a good flow going. That's awesome. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because the reason you had been somewhat resistant to digital reading,

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Speaker 1: but I think you had mentioned it just opened up

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Speaker 1: some time to read that was not available otherwise. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I mean specifically, I usually have to lie down in

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Speaker 1: Genevieve's bed for about thirty minutes every night while she

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Speaker 1: listens to her head's face sleep story and falls asleep,

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Speaker 1: and I can read during that whole time, and then

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Speaker 1: usually that reading momentum kind of carries me and I

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Speaker 1: want to read further, whereas otherwise I would have just

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Speaker 1: been angrily scrolling and waiting for her to fall asleep,

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Speaker 1: and then by the time that was done, I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: have energy to read. So this is working much much better.

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Speaker 1: I actually tend to use my phone with the Kindle

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Speaker 1: app in her bed just because it's like easier than

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Speaker 1: my transition to the digital kindle, because it's just easy

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Speaker 1: that way. Oh, and I want to mention my current reading,

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Speaker 1: which was recommended by our Patreon people. We had a

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Speaker 1: book month that was May, and someone recommended the American

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Speaker 1: Royal Series by Katherine McGee, which is about it's like

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Speaker 1: an alternative world where the US executive branch is actually

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Speaker 1: a monarchy descended from the Washington family and it's so

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Speaker 1: juicy and cute and fun and I'm enjoying it, which

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Speaker 1: is interesting because I didn't think Washington had any kids.

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Speaker 1: So this is a this is a completely alternative like

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Speaker 1: everything is different, like you like, there are elements of

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Speaker 1: history that are real mixed in. But it says if, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's an alternate world, Okay, sounds great, sounds great, and

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Speaker 1: things things seem to be going well. So maybe that

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Speaker 1: should have been the royalist street here on best of

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Speaker 1: both worlds. Who knew? Just just kidding. Yeah, I don't

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Speaker 1: know if I've been I mean I've been reading some.

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Speaker 1: I read the book Under the Whispering Door by TJ.

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Speaker 1: I want to say his name. That was a very

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Speaker 1: different sort of book, but I guess some people had

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Speaker 1: recommended as kind of a feel good sort of book

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Speaker 1: in a way that I found a little bit annoying

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Speaker 1: because it required changing I think a fundamental rule that

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Speaker 1: had not been introduced as a possibility kind of earlier

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Speaker 1: and within science fiction that's a little bit you know,

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Speaker 1: A no, no, I don't know, but it was necessary

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Speaker 1: to make it a happy ending. But I was like, well,

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Speaker 1: I would have taken the sad ending. I was prepared

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Speaker 1: for that. But anyway, it's a very fun read and

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Speaker 1: certainly goes quickly. People might enjoy that if we looking

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Speaker 1: for something a little different. I also just finished These

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Speaker 1: Precious Days by Anne Pattitt, which is relevant to this

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Speaker 1: episode because Mary Laura makes a cameo in there. She's

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Speaker 1: not referred to as Mary Laura Philpott. It is just

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Speaker 1: Mary Laura when Anne Patchett is talking about Parnassis, which

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Speaker 1: is her books to own in Nashville, and Mary Laura

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Speaker 1: worked there in marketing for many years before becoming a

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Speaker 1: full time memoirist. So that is kind of funny to

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Speaker 1: read that and realize what Mary Laura they are talking about.

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Speaker 1: So I just finished that and enjoyed that. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: Summer's former's been a bit of a whirlwind so far,

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Speaker 1: but with a lot of travel. But as we're recording

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Speaker 1: this in late July, I think should have hopefully settled

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Speaker 1: down a bit for me, So maybe I'll get some

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Speaker 1: more reading in always looking for more ideas, so please

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Speaker 1: feel free to send them in and send in your

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Speaker 1: listener requests too. Because Mary Laura, although I had wanted

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Speaker 1: to interview her as well, I've met her a few

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Speaker 1: times and find her wonderful, but the specific nudge was

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Speaker 1: that it was a listener request to somebody who loved

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Speaker 1: her books and wanted to hear from her, so we

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Speaker 1: were happy to bring her on. So please keep the

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Speaker 1: listener request coming. We would love to make as many

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Speaker 1: of those happen as possible. Sarah and I do not

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Speaker 1: know everyone, nor do we have the ability to convince

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Speaker 1: everyone I'm on the show, but you know, for some

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Speaker 1: people sometimes they're willing to give it a whirl. So

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Speaker 1: let's hear from Mary Laura. Well, Sarah and I are

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Speaker 1: delighted to welcome Mary Laura Philpott to the show. So

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Speaker 1: Mary Laura, can you introduce yourself to our listeners. Hello,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for having me, Laura. This is

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Speaker 1: this is really fun. I'm Mary Laura Philpotts. I'm a writer.

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Speaker 1: I wrote most recently Bomb Shelter, Love Time and Other Explosives,

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Speaker 1: which is a memoir, and before that, memoir and essays

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Speaker 1: sort of a little further down the essay end of

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Speaker 1: the spectrum than the memoir end of the spectrum called

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Speaker 1: I miss you when I blink wonderful. And you have

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Speaker 1: two children as well? Yes, I have teenagers, Bless my soul.

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Speaker 1: I have a right now, a sixteen year old and

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Speaker 1: a nineteen year old, and I am fully in the

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Speaker 1: throes of that. You know, people always say each year

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Speaker 1: there are certain phases of life where everything's the same

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Speaker 1: for a few years, and then there are phases where

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Speaker 1: every passing year or even half year is like a

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Speaker 1: whole new era. And I am fully there. Every six

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Speaker 1: months it's like, whoa, we're learning all new things about

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Speaker 1: human development. Yes, that's true. Well, the ages of sixteen

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Speaker 1: to nineteen are known for. That is your older child

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Speaker 1: home for the summer. We're recording this in summer, coming

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Speaker 1: into summer break here. He's actually not. So he finished

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Speaker 1: a year of college and was home long enough to

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Speaker 1: jump all his laundry all over the floor and watch

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Speaker 1: it and then pack it all back up. And he

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Speaker 1: is a camp counselor in the summer out on the coast,

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Speaker 1: so that's his favorite thing in the world. So he

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Speaker 1: got home, left again, and I won't see him all

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Speaker 1: summer excellent, excellent. Well, that's probably a good way to

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Speaker 1: spend the summer. And your career has taken quite a

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Speaker 1: winding journey for anyone who has read your books, and

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Speaker 1: particularly I missed you with when I blink. You did

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Speaker 1: a lot of different things. I mean it was Yes,

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Speaker 1: I'm just going to try and remember here. Software consultant

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Speaker 1: coming out of college. That's sort of an unexpected one.

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Speaker 1: That's what my parents said. Also, yeah, exactly, a stay

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Speaker 1: at home mom for a while, well, a bookstore marketer,

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Speaker 1: a cartoonist, public television host, yes, and professional memoist. So

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Speaker 1: maybe you can sort of connect this well in that

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Speaker 1: when you say it, when you say them like that,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, that does sound like a really eclectic career collection.

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Speaker 1: But it's there were things all kind of streaming those

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Speaker 1: things together. Except for software consultant at the beginning. That

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Speaker 1: is something I did something to do coming out of college.

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Speaker 1: I did you know? I was an English major, and

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Speaker 1: I've always been a writer my whole life. I was

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Speaker 1: a strong writer in college, but I didn't know what

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Speaker 1: to do with that. I didn't want to be a novelist.

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Speaker 1: I've never wanted to write fiction. I didn't want to

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Speaker 1: go into journalism, and I didn't want to be an

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Speaker 1: English professor, so I didn't want to go to grad

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Speaker 1: school in English. And that left me thinking, well, I

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Speaker 1: guess there's no real way to use this English degree,

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Speaker 1: and I briefly toyed with the idea of law school.

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Speaker 1: I did apply to law school, but then I pulled

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Speaker 1: out at the last second. Software consulting is just that's

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Speaker 1: the company. Accentri was the company that was on campus

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Speaker 1: doing interviews of seniors at the time. I had this,

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Speaker 1: you know, identity crisis. So they were there and I

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Speaker 1: just walked up and was like, can you interview me? And,

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Speaker 1: as you know, as one does in a moment of

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Speaker 1: identity crisis, I just did the best possible job I

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Speaker 1: could at imitating someone they might want, and I did

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Speaker 1: it maybe right, a little too well, And I ended

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Speaker 1: up working for Accenta for a few years. I did

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Speaker 1: meet wonderful people. It is a great company. I got

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Speaker 1: a really good business education, I think out of it,

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Speaker 1: but I was I was never meant to be a

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Speaker 1: software developer. I mean that just is not what I

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Speaker 1: was meant to do, and so I left. But from

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Speaker 1: there I did corporate communications for quite a while, so

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Speaker 1: I worked in healthcare specifically, I worked for a hospital

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Speaker 1: doing marketing communications, website, copy, newsletters, that kind of thing,

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Speaker 1: and then kind of worked my way up through that

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Speaker 1: world and ended up working for the home office of

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Speaker 1: the American CA Society. That was my last full full

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Speaker 1: time you know, in an office gig and I loved

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Speaker 1: that job. I loved that organization. And what I was

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Speaker 1: doing when I was working in corporate communications was storytelling.

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Speaker 1: I was telling the stories of these organizations. I was

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Speaker 1: telling the stories of people who had been served by

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Speaker 1: these organizations. So early on in my career that was

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Speaker 1: like mid twenties, mid twenties through late twenties, I was

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Speaker 1: writing professionally and I was storytelling professionally, So I was

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Speaker 1: honing those skills that I would end up using later,

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Speaker 1: you know, once I had kids, and I sort of

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Speaker 1: went back and forth from I'm just home with these

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Speaker 1: babies to no, I'm freelance you know, freelance writing. But

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Speaker 1: when I was freelance writing, I was speech writing. I

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Speaker 1: was doing a lot of ghost writing op eds and

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Speaker 1: things like that that would come out under other people's names.

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Speaker 1: So I never stopped writing and I never stopped developing

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Speaker 1: my skills for writing within the essay format or within

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Speaker 1: the you know, a short non fiction piece of writing

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Speaker 1: that is compelling and that tells a story and that

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Speaker 1: gets you somewhere in two thousand words. That's always kind

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Speaker 1: of been my favorite structure. And the bookstore job came

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Speaker 1: along when we moved my family moved from Atlanta to Nashville.

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Speaker 1: Nashville had this great bookstore. I was in there shopping

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Speaker 1: all the time anyway, and you know, I struck up

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Speaker 1: a conversation at one point with the owners and said,

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Speaker 1: I want to subscribe to your you know, your newsletter,

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Speaker 1: your blog, your social media and they were like, whoa,

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Speaker 1: we don't really have that. I don't have one. Get

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Speaker 1: it right, And in that, you know, in that way

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Speaker 1: that I do, I was like, well, I'll do it.

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Speaker 1: And the next thing I know, I had a job.

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Speaker 1: And I did that for seven years, six years, several years.

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Speaker 1: I did that until I Miss You when I Blink

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Speaker 1: came out and then I was touring for that book

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Speaker 1: and it was just too much. But kind of along

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Speaker 1: with the bookstore job, concurrently came hosting a show about

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Speaker 1: books on Nashville Public television. Those jobs weren't technically connected.

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Speaker 1: But the people at NPT had seen my work at

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Speaker 1: the store and for the blog, and they were like, hey,

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Speaker 1: if we can teach you to be on camera, could

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Speaker 1: you come talk about books over here. So it's all

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Speaker 1: story telling, it's all reading, writing, you know, writing about life.

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Speaker 1: It's more connected than it perhaps looks on the surface. Now, well,

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Speaker 1: it's a nice eclectic mix, which people who have read

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Speaker 1: your books know that that is off in their format.

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Speaker 1: But it's a you know, these two thousand word vignettes

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Speaker 1: on related but you know, sometimes slightly different sequential topics.

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Speaker 1: And but it's interesting you said you were moving to Nashville.

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Speaker 1: One of the fascinating things is that it was more

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Speaker 1: for you that you guys moved to Nashville than your husband.

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Speaker 1: Even though the sort of normal stories like, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, mom's sort of been in and out of

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Speaker 1: the workforce or you know, freelancing for a bit, and

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Speaker 1: husband has the sort of set job and they move

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Speaker 1: for that, right, But that's not what happened at all

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Speaker 1: for you guys. Right, Normally you follow the primary wagejourner

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Speaker 1: who has the health insurance, not the writer. Not the

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Speaker 1: writer But the beautiful thing about what my husband does,

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Speaker 1: which don't ask me to describe it, because I can't

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Speaker 1: really I know it's something financial, is that it can

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Speaker 1: happen in different cities, and he's always worked closely with

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Speaker 1: the entrepreneurial world, which is booming in Nashville and has

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Speaker 1: been booming in Nashville for the past decades. So when

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Speaker 1: I reached a point back when we lived in Atlanta

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Speaker 1: and we had kind of elementary, middle school age kids,

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Speaker 1: and I was really had kind of hit a burnout

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Speaker 1: point where the children were old enough to have lots

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Speaker 1: of things to do all over town, but they couldn't

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Speaker 1: drive themselves. So I was living that chauffeur life in

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Speaker 1: a city that has experienced a lot of sprawl. So

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Speaker 1: I was sitting in traffic for most of my waking hours.

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Speaker 1: I had tried to find meaning in my daily existence through,

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Speaker 1: you know, in addition to my freelance work, I was

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Speaker 1: trying to do things like volunteer at school and maybe

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Speaker 1: that would make me feel more connected to you know,

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Speaker 1: the reason I'm in traffic all day, it just wasn't

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Speaker 1: it wasn't working. I was not loving my daily existence.

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Speaker 1: I felt disconnected from it, I felt like I was

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Speaker 1: spending a lot of time doing things I didn't really

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Speaker 1: want to be doing. I wanted to be more atten

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Speaker 1: to a creative community, and I wasn't finding that in Atlanta.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I was the one who ended up finding

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Speaker 1: somewhere else I wanted to live and kind of stay.

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Speaker 1: Unto the rest of the family, Hey, could you guys

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Speaker 1: come along with me? So I feel very, very lucky

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Speaker 1: that that worked out and that my spouse had the

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Speaker 1: kind of job that he could do somewhere else. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: always good when you can move the family unit. And

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Speaker 1: of course the bookstore for those, let's say, is Parnasa's

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Speaker 1: Books in Nashville. It's a very famous bookstore for those

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Speaker 1: who haven't heard of it, but probably many people have.

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Speaker 1: It's a lovely bookstore there. So Mary Laura was working there.

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Speaker 1: So we're going to take a quick ad break and

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Speaker 1: we'll be back to hear more about her latest book,

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Speaker 1: which is Bomb Shelter. So I am back talking with

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Speaker 1: Mary Laura Philpott about her life and writing, her career,

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Speaker 1: her family, and she writes a lot about her family life.

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Speaker 1: So tell us a little bit about Bomb Shelter and

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Speaker 1: how that came to be. Yeah, I will. It's interesting

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Speaker 1: that you say I write a lot about family life

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Speaker 1: because I'm still sort of getting used to accepting that identity.

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Speaker 1: I resisted writing about family for a long time, partly

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Speaker 1: out of a concern for my family's privacy. I'm a

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Speaker 1: super super private person, even more so on behalf of

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Speaker 1: the people I love, and partly out of I think

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Speaker 1: a little bit of pride. Like when you are a

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Speaker 1: woman and you write about family, as you know, there

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Speaker 1: are people out there who dismiss your work because, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's domestic, this is lady work. It's not real writing.

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Speaker 1: And I think I had a little bit of a

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Speaker 1: chip on my shoulder about that for a while. But

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Speaker 1: the more I wrote about what it feels like to

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Speaker 1: be a human being, which is just a complicated, difficult

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Speaker 1: thing sometimes, the more I found myself kind of needing

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Speaker 1: to write about family because family is so much a

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Speaker 1: part of my life. And if you write about the

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Speaker 1: dynamics in a family, you are writing about the human

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Speaker 1: experience so much about what it means to be. You know,

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Speaker 1: a thinking, feeling soul trapped in immortal body can be

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Speaker 1: expressed by writing about being a family member. Trapped in

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Speaker 1: a family. So that's a long way of getting to

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Speaker 1: Bomb Shelter. Bomb Shelter is a book that would have

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Speaker 1: probably happened in some way regardless of what was going

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Speaker 1: on in my life. I was starting to write a

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Speaker 1: few years ago about what it feels like to be

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Speaker 1: middle aged, how things are changing at this point in life.

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Speaker 1: My parents are getting older, my kids are getting older,

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Speaker 1: my body is getting older. You know, a lot of

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Speaker 1: things are destabilizing. And I was beginning to write some

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Speaker 1: pieces about that and kind of wondering where are these

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Speaker 1: going to go? And they probably would have gone somewhere

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Speaker 1: sort of similar. But then something happened that kind of

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Speaker 1: kicked everything I was thinking about into a different, more

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Speaker 1: urgent gear, and that is that one morning when my son,

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Speaker 1: my oldest of my two teenagers, was in tenth grade,

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Speaker 1: my husband and I woke up at four am to

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Speaker 1: a loud thump, and it was the sound of his

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Speaker 1: body hitting the bathroom floor. He had gotten up to

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Speaker 1: get a glass of water, and when we found him

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Speaker 1: on the floor, he was having a seizure. And so

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Speaker 1: I tell the story in Bomb Shelter of calling nine

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Speaker 1: to one one that day in the hospital is kind

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Speaker 1: of before and after day where this was the moment

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Speaker 1: where nothing would ever be the same in our family.

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Speaker 1: And the book is not a memoir of the epilepsy journey.

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Speaker 1: It's not a memoir about my son or my relationship

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Speaker 1: to my son. In fact, those events kind of weave

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Speaker 1: their way through and thread their way through the story periodically,

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Speaker 1: but they're not the bulk of the book. But they

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Speaker 1: are writing about that experience allowed me to write in

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Speaker 1: a more I think, a more emotionally vivid way about

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Speaker 1: how it feels to wish that you could keep everybody

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Speaker 1: alive and okay just by loving them hard enough, but

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Speaker 1: knowing you can't, how do you get up every day

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Speaker 1: and find meaning and positivity and even humor. How do

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Speaker 1: we keep going when we can't fix everything with love?

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Speaker 1: That's what Bomb shelters about exactly. And I think you know,

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Speaker 1: as listeners are sort of thinking about this question. We've

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Speaker 1: had parents of kids with special needs on and things

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Speaker 1: like that. There's something about taking care of smaller kids

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Speaker 1: with chronic medical conditions that's more under your control. Right.

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Speaker 1: You can make a small kid go to doctor's appointments,

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Speaker 1: you can make them take their medicine you can make

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Speaker 1: them do whatever sort of lifestyle thing they need to do.

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Speaker 1: But with your you know, teenage son, you're dealing with

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Speaker 1: the fact that, like, okay, he's not supposed to drink

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Speaker 1: alcohol with this medication. Like you know, it's hard enough

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Speaker 1: to get your kids not to do stuff like that,

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Speaker 1: and here you are, you know, having the medical thing

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Speaker 1: to worry about with it, or that you know, he

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Speaker 1: needs to take his medication. Adolescents forget to put their

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Speaker 1: underwear in the hamper, and yet here you are needing

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Speaker 1: him to take something so that he doesn't pass out

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Speaker 1: on the floor somewhere. So you know, maybe you could

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Speaker 1: talk a little bit about that aspect of somebody who

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Speaker 1: you're trying to launch off into the world, but you

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Speaker 1: have to also, you know, do the caretaking at the

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Speaker 1: same time. Yeah. Yeah, for a second there, I thought

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Speaker 1: you were going to say they forget to put their

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Speaker 1: underwear on, and I was like, yeah, they do that

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Speaker 1: as well, you know, and they forget it all. I mean, honestly,

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Speaker 1: the health crisis part of this phase of life, and

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Speaker 1: the health crisis part of this book highlighted and really

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Speaker 1: brought into clear focus some things that I think are

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Speaker 1: actually true about parenting adolescents in general. I could have

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Speaker 1: written Bombs Shelter without the epilepsy, because adolescence, you know,

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Speaker 1: and it's different in every family, it's different for every kid.

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Speaker 1: That in our family, it kind of started off very gently,

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Speaker 1: Like I remember when my kids were thirteen and fifteen

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Speaker 1: and people saying, oh, teenageers are so hard, and I

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Speaker 1: was like, are they? I mean, I love my teenagers.

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Speaker 1: There's so much more interesting than little bitty kids, Like

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Speaker 1: we can have really good conversations and then they learn

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Speaker 1: how to drive, and it's like, this is amazing. I

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Speaker 1: love having teenagers. But for me, the hardest part of

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Speaker 1: raising teenagers has come the closer they get to leaving

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Speaker 1: the nest and the closer they get to independence. And

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Speaker 1: I think it's for the reasons that you just said,

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Speaker 1: there's no longer this sense of Okay, you are a

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Speaker 1: cog in the wheel of this family unit that lives

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Speaker 1: in this house, and we all do these things. We

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Speaker 1: all go to bed at this time, we all eat

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Speaker 1: dinner at the same time. Whatever. They have to go

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Speaker 1: out and learn how to do things on their own,

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Speaker 1: and the only way to learn is to try. And

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Speaker 1: when you try something new, you will fail. So now

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Speaker 1: we're in this phase of life where it's like I'm

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Speaker 1: watching them go out and do things and make mistakes

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Speaker 1: and make choices that maybe I wouldn't have made or

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Speaker 1: probably would have made at that age, but wouldn't make now.

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Speaker 1: And there's a whole new powerlessness in this phase of

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Speaker 1: parenting health emergency or not. It's just a whole new

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Speaker 1: thing to me. This is harder than parenting toddlers. Yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: it's it's very different. I mean I would say there's

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Speaker 1: since I have teenagers, and I would say there's just

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Speaker 1: I was up, you know, big chunks of the night

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Speaker 1: with the toddler for he had a fever and it

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Speaker 1: was just good. But you know, then I still have

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Speaker 1: to get up and get the teenager of school. So

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Speaker 1: they're you know, sary thing is fun something. It's all hard.

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Speaker 1: It's all hard. So let's talk about your writing a

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Speaker 1: little bit about how you work, Like what does your

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Speaker 1: day to day writing practice look like. I mean, I'm

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Speaker 1: looking at the Mary Laura Philpott nook in the house

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Speaker 1: where I suppose the magic may happen or maybe not,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, but maybe you can talk about them. Yeah, Well,

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Speaker 1: it kind of varies by season, so where listeners should

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Speaker 1: know that Laura is looking at me. And what I

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Speaker 1: call my office, it's really just a dead end in

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Speaker 1: a hallway that no one else is using. And I

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Speaker 1: put a death here and I put a chair in here,

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Speaker 1: and now it is my zoom studio. But this is

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Speaker 1: not actually where I end up doing most of my work,

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Speaker 1: because often when I am working, everyone is home, like

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Speaker 1: bomb shelter. I wrote a lot of that during the pandemic. Truly,

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Speaker 1: everyone was home and could not leave because we were

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Speaker 1: on lockdown. So I will take any space I can get.

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Speaker 1: I will work on the back porch if that's the

430
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,959
Speaker 1: quietest place. I will work in the kitchen. If everyone

431
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:29,119
Speaker 1: else is in their rooms and this hallway has gotten

432
00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:31,639
Speaker 1: too loud, I'll take the hallway. I'll go sit in

433
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:35,159
Speaker 1: the car if I have to. I'll take any space

434
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,399
Speaker 1: I can get. But if I am in the phase

435
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,879
Speaker 1: of work where I am writing, which is most of

436
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:43,840
Speaker 1: the time, I'm in a phase right now where I'm

437
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:46,280
Speaker 1: not as much. This is like a book promotional phase.

438
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:48,720
Speaker 1: I'm like getting off planes and stuff, and it's weird

439
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,560
Speaker 1: and different. But when I'm writing, I'm definitely smarter in

440
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 1: the morning. I am not one of those people who

441
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:55,520
Speaker 1: can be like, all right, ten pm, time to sit

442
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:58,480
Speaker 1: down and write. I'm useless by ten pm, So I

443
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:02,720
Speaker 1: get up everybody whoever's up and around, make sure they're fed.

444
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:04,720
Speaker 1: They go do their thing, and once I have a

445
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:08,399
Speaker 1: little bit of quiet, I write and write and write

446
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,200
Speaker 1: and think and erase and delete and do the things

447
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 1: I'm doing and whatever document I'm doing things in until

448
00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:19,919
Speaker 1: lunchtime ish maybe early afternoon, and that is when that

449
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,199
Speaker 1: part of my brain starts to get tired and I

450
00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:25,360
Speaker 1: just can't use it for much more than about half

451
00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:28,199
Speaker 1: a day. But a practice that I started when I

452
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:29,879
Speaker 1: was working on a bomb shelter that I think was

453
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 1: really helpful honestly to the book. I think it made

454
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:34,760
Speaker 1: the book better, but also was just really enjoyable and

455
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,600
Speaker 1: neat for me, was using the afternoon time, which is

456
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,320
Speaker 1: still workday at least when you know I have teenagers

457
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,359
Speaker 1: who don't need me for anything in the afternoon, I don't.

458
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,159
Speaker 1: And you know, if I've done all my email and

459
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 1: everything else I need to do, I've got this worktime,

460
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:49,400
Speaker 1: but my brain can't write. Using that time to read

461
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:55,280
Speaker 1: with a pencil in my hand. Read anything, read biographies,

462
00:23:55,520 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 1: read thrillers, read romance, read poetry, read literally like just

463
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:03,359
Speaker 1: from the bookshelf of stuff I already have. But I

464
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 1: also did shop sometimes and highlight what other writers do well,

465
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:13,119
Speaker 1: and highlight lines and structures and pieces of dialogue that

466
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:15,639
Speaker 1: make me go ooh, this makes me think about something

467
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,000
Speaker 1: I could do at some point and kind of use

468
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 1: that like a like class time, so that when my

469
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:23,919
Speaker 1: brain can't be actively producing, it can at least be

470
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:28,480
Speaker 1: sort of passively absorbing things that make me better at

471
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:30,439
Speaker 1: my job. So that's kind of how I broke up

472
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 1: my workday. And that's really cool. That's a that's a

473
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 1: cool thing to do. And I'm curious. I mean, first,

474
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:41,639
Speaker 1: how you wind up choosing essay topics. I mean, is

475
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,199
Speaker 1: it that you know, you get an epiphany like that

476
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:47,639
Speaker 1: I must write about this. You try out different things

477
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:49,920
Speaker 1: and see where it's going. I mean, maybe you could

478
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about how you know if something

479
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 1: is going to sustain the two thousand words. Yeah, So

480
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 1: it's if I'm writing a standalone piece, like if I'm

481
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,880
Speaker 1: writing an essay that is no part of a book,

482
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:02,160
Speaker 1: or that I don't think is going to be part

483
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,200
Speaker 1: of a book, and I'm hoping to pitch it somewhere,

484
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,399
Speaker 1: you know, send it to the Atlantic or the New

485
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:10,879
Speaker 1: York Times or whatever. Often I'm drawn to whatever that

486
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 1: essay is about, and I write about just regular life.

487
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 1: I don't write about like politics and news and that

488
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 1: kind of thing. But often I'm drawn to write about

489
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:19,680
Speaker 1: whatever that thing is that's going on in my life

490
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:24,199
Speaker 1: because I can't stop thinking about it. It's almost like

491
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,879
Speaker 1: the topics of my essays demand to be written, and

492
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:29,679
Speaker 1: the only way I can get them to leave me

493
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 1: alone is if I sit down and start writing and

494
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,399
Speaker 1: taking a part. Okay, why am I obsessed with whatever?

495
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 1: The turtle in my backyard? Why can't I stop thinking

496
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:42,200
Speaker 1: about that? Well, it's making me think about this. It's

497
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 1: making me think about this, and I start pulling in

498
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 1: emotional threads that maybe are more universal, that don't have

499
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 1: to do with just my life. Almost always it's because

500
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 1: something just won't leave me alone. And that's the case

501
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 1: for essays that go into books as well, except that

502
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 1: often those essays have something in common. So I'll write

503
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,360
Speaker 1: about here's something I can't stop thinking about this. It's

504
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 1: this thing that happened, and I'm going to tell you

505
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,400
Speaker 1: what happened or what I learned from it, And then

506
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 1: you know, a week later, I'll realize I have more

507
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:16,359
Speaker 1: to say on that thing I learned because something else

508
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 1: happened that also taught me something about that. So now

509
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:20,159
Speaker 1: I'm going to go over here and tell this story.

510
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 1: There's a thread kind of connecting things. And if I've written,

511
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:26,920
Speaker 1: like with Bomb Shelter, I got to a point where

512
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,719
Speaker 1: I had written a few essays and realized, these are

513
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 1: all about the same thing. These are all about this,

514
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 1: why can't we just keep everyone safe by loving them enough?

515
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:37,920
Speaker 1: And how do we go on once we realize that's

516
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:40,680
Speaker 1: the case. And so all the stories I was writing

517
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:44,640
Speaker 1: about were things that spoke to that question in some way.

518
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 1: I mean, there's an essay in there about when I

519
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: was in second grade, a girl in my neighborhood was kidnapped,

520
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 1: like classic eighties the thing we thought was happening all

521
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 1: the time, it wasn't really where stranger breaks into your

522
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 1: house and stealed your child. And I've been obsessed with

523
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 1: that story my whole life. I just never stopped thinking

524
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 1: about it, and I I took some time while I

525
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:06,679
Speaker 1: was writing Bomb Shelter to go Why can't I forget

526
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 1: that story? Why am I obsessed with it? Why did

527
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 1: it stick in my head? You know, from the time

528
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,879
Speaker 1: I was seven on, and it very much ties into

529
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 1: what Bomb Shelter is about, this idea of how do

530
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 1: you keep the people you love safe? What are the

531
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 1: real threats in the world, what are the threats that

532
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:26,399
Speaker 1: we imagine? And also, once you've seen something horrible happen

533
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 1: that people go, oh, that will never happen, But once

534
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:30,400
Speaker 1: it does, how do you tell your brain it won't

535
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 1: happen again? Good question. I know it was a crazy story.

536
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:37,120
Speaker 1: I'm I'm not being very you know, it was one

537
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 1: of those stranger danger things that yeah, vast majority of

538
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,879
Speaker 1: kidnappings are, of course, like custodial cases and things like that,

539
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 1: but no, it was. It was a pretty crazy story. Yeah.

540
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 1: So a lot of times I'm just writing about things

541
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 1: that I that I can't stop thinking about, and people

542
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 1: ask a lot of times like how do you remember

543
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,919
Speaker 1: details of things that happened in the past. For the

544
00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 1: stuff I write about, these are the stories that burned

545
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 1: themselves into my brain. I'm not having to think very

546
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 1: hard to remember because it's all right there. The stuff

547
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,160
Speaker 1: I can't remember I don't end up writing about exactly.

548
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,160
Speaker 1: And how do you revise? Like, so let's say you've

549
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,439
Speaker 1: got this you know essay, I mean presumably you've been

550
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 1: crafting it, and then you are then working on it more,

551
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 1: and do you have any particular process or tips that

552
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 1: you figured out for that? Revising is my favorite part

553
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 1: because that's art. That's like, all right, now we're going

554
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 1: to make it sound good and look good and be

555
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 1: this fully engaging, entertaining experience that engages people's senses. That's great.

556
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 1: That's so much easier, not easier because it's hard, but

557
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 1: it's to me better than the part where I'm like,

558
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 1: what is that? What am I trying to say? What's

559
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 1: the story? I love revising. I save every version of

560
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 1: an essay. So if I have a version that's five

561
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 1: thousand words long and I know I've got to get

562
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 1: it down to three thousand for some reason, like I'm,

563
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 1: you know, pitching it to a publication or whatever, I'll

564
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 1: save the five thousand word version and then I'll just

565
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 1: hack away at it and I'll save that version. And

566
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 1: then if I'm like, that wasn't quite it I'll hack

567
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 1: away edit it in a different way because I never

568
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 1: want to be shy about edits because I'm worried I

569
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 1: can't get something back, you know. I want to be

570
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 1: bold with my edits and actually try. Okay, what would

571
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 1: it take to make this really good? What if I

572
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 1: took the whole first page out. I don't want to

573
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 1: not do that because I'm like, oh, but I might

574
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 1: want the first page back. Just save it. It's over there.

575
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 1: It's in what. I have a document that I call legos,

576
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 1: where I take like little pieces of things. I work

577
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 1: like a sentence that I'm like, this sentence is so great.

578
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 1: It doesn't belong in this essay, but I'm going to

579
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 1: use it somewhere. I toss it into the document called legos,

580
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 1: and it's like a big Bucks blocks. I can go

581
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 1: in and pull it out later and build something else

582
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 1: with it. So I try to save everything, save all

583
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 1: the pieces, so that I'm never shy about being bold

584
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 1: with my edits. I love editing. It's the best part,

585
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 1: you know, when you can get in there and say, Okay,

586
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 1: now this paragraph is saying exactly what I mean for

587
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 1: it to say. Now, how can I say it in

588
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 1: a way that starts to sort of play with the

589
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 1: reader a little bit like the chapter in Bomb Shelter

590
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 1: where we find my son on the floor and we

591
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 1: call nine one one. That's probably the piece I worked

592
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 1: on longer and harder than anything else in the book,

593
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 1: because what I wanted to do with it, in addition

594
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 1: to telling you a story and making you understand why

595
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 1: this me character was left in the state she was

596
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,960
Speaker 1: in and had all these questions to think about, I

597
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 1: wanted you to feel what it was like to be

598
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 1: there that morning, so that you could really take this

599
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 1: journey with me the rest of the book. I couldn't

600
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 1: breathe that morning. I was breathless. So one of the

601
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 1: things I did in the final rounds of editing that

602
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 1: piece was a just my senate structure and my words

603
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 1: and where I put the punctuation so that if you

604
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 1: were reading it, you know how when you read, even

605
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 1: if you're not reading out loud, it's kind of like

606
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 1: you're reading in your brain, you would get shorter breath like.

607
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 1: That's the level of editing that I love. When I

608
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 1: get to that part and when I get to okay,

609
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 1: there are three different words that mean the same thing,

610
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 1: which one do I want for sound or which one do?

611
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 1: I like the look of it on the page. I

612
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: love that stuff. Yeah. No, it's always fun to turn

613
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 1: something into something better. Yes, and it's it's a different

614
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 1: process entirely than just creating something out and nothing. Yes, totally.

615
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 1: I feel like the sculptor shaping you know what's Yeah.

616
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's great. That's great. So does something big

617
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 1: need to happen for there to be another memoir? Are

618
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 1: you planning on? Ah, that's a great question. I mean,

619
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 1: I will say when I came home in twenty nineteen,

620
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 1: when I came home from touring for I Miss You,

621
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 1: when I Blink. When I was at about this phase

622
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 1: of the book cycle season, people kept asking me, what

623
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 1: are you going to write next? And I was like,

624
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 1: I got nothing. I don't have anything. I don't know

625
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 1: what I'm going to write next. I have nothing to

626
00:31:55,360 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 1: write about. And everything that is in Bomb Shelter, or

627
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 1: at least everything that was in like the first half

628
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 1: of Bomb Shelter, had already happened. It was right there.

629
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 1: I mean it was and it was not forgotten. It

630
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 1: was like recent It was all right there. But I

631
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 1: hadn't reached the point where I could start to see

632
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 1: connective threads between the things that were happening. So it's

633
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 1: entirely possible that in six months I will wake up

634
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 1: and go, oh my gosh, there's all this stuff that

635
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 1: has happened since when I turned in bomb shelter, and

636
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 1: I'm seeing connective threads. And I have something to say,

637
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 1: and I have a question to ask, and I have

638
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 1: something to engage readers with. I don't believe that you

639
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 1: have to have monumental things happened to you in order

640
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 1: to get to write a memoir. I think it's more

641
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 1: important that you have a monumental question to answer and

642
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 1: to grapple with. You can use everyday life, sir, you know,

643
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 1: monumental questions, or in six months, I could be sitting

644
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 1: here going all right, I got to figure out how

645
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 1: to do something else. I don't know. I'm sure it'll

646
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:55,719
Speaker 1: come to you. I'm sure. I hope that's encouraging toet

647
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 1: hear Mary laur because I always thought, you know, if

648
00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 1: I were to write about my life, my life was

649
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 1: a very boring. So that was Memoirs of everyday life

650
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 1: are some of my favorite books because it's the question,

651
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 1: the emotional core of a memoir. That's the part that's

652
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 1: supposed to be relatable to people. So if you were

653
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 1: writing a memoir about that time you got kidnapped and

654
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 1: held hostage on a pirate ship, I've never been held

655
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 1: hostage on a pirate ship. But if you wrote really

656
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 1: well about what it feels like to think I have

657
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 1: no control of this situation, and you really made me

658
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 1: feel that, I've had many situations in my life where

659
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 1: I felt out of control and where I felt like

660
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 1: other people are making the decisions for me and I

661
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 1: have no options, and I would relate on that level.

662
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 1: You can tackle that same theme. You can tackle all

663
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 1: those same questions with a story about being eighteen and

664
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 1: feeling like you have no control over your life and

665
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 1: there's nothing exciting about it other than you go to

666
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 1: high school every day. But the meat of it, the

667
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 1: emotional core, is what makes it relatable, because I really

668
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 1: don't want to get kidnapped. I don't want that to

669
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 1: happen to you either. Although, speaking of exciting things, you

670
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 1: recently interviewed somebody that is a fantastic interview. Tell us

671
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:16,840
Speaker 1: about meeting Dolly Parton. I will, so it's so funny

672
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,840
Speaker 1: Nashville is such an odd town. When I first moved here,

673
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 1: people would say, oh, you live in nashvilleal you probably

674
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 1: know so and so, you know, they would name these

675
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:26,439
Speaker 1: there are a lot of famous people who live here,

676
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:28,879
Speaker 1: and the fact is I do know a lot of them,

677
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 1: but just because this is where I live, and they

678
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 1: live here also, and our kids go to school. So

679
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:38,959
Speaker 1: it's Nashville's a weird, kind of low key celebrity town.

680
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 1: But Dolly Parton is the one, like mega mega star

681
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,360
Speaker 1: who I thought, well, I will never meet Dolly Parton,

682
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 1: because who meets Dolly Parton. She doesn't just go to

683
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 1: the grocery store. I'm not going to see her in

684
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,879
Speaker 1: the carpool line. But back toward the end of last year,

685
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,800
Speaker 1: I got a phone call, actually a text one day

686
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 1: out of the blue that said, Hey, I work with

687
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 1: Parade Magazine, which is that little thing that comes out

688
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 1: in some of the Sunday papers, and we're going to

689
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 1: do a big feature on Dolly Parton and James Patterson

690
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,359
Speaker 1: because they are writing a novel together that comes out

691
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 1: in the spring, and we need to know if you

692
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 1: would be It was really short notice. It was like,

693
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:18,240
Speaker 1: we need to know if you'd be available next week

694
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 1: to come spend the day at Dolly's compound with them

695
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 1: and be there for their whole photo shoot together and

696
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 1: sit down and talk to them. And I it was

697
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 1: so funny because I thought this text does not need

698
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 1: question marks, like yes, of course I'm going to come.

699
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:39,400
Speaker 1: I will cancel whatever else I'm doing. And so I

700
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 1: got to go and sit with Dolly and Jim, who

701
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 1: are like America's grandparents. They are so they are both

702
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:50,440
Speaker 1: so smart, they are both so at the top of

703
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:55,840
Speaker 1: their game and such savvy business people who have built empires.

704
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:58,720
Speaker 1: And at the same time they are both like roughly

705
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 1: my parents' age, and you know, we're getting settled in

706
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 1: our room to do the interview and they're like, oh,

707
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 1: I need a pillow for my back, and just hand

708
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 1: me a Kleenex. You know. It just it was so

709
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:12,960
Speaker 1: delightful in that they were both humanized, like there they are,

710
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,319
Speaker 1: they're just people. But at the same time, I did

711
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 1: not leave thinking they were any less of the you know,

712
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 1: huge stars they are. Like, I didn't walk out going, oh, Dolly,

713
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 1: she's just like me. No, she's Dolly Parton. She's on

714
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 1: a whole other level. But she's also and this is wonderful,

715
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:32,720
Speaker 1: exactly how you imagine her. She fully embodies the character

716
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:35,360
Speaker 1: of Dolly Parton at all times. That is awesome. That

717
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 1: is awesome. All right, well, Mary Laura, we always end

718
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 1: with a love of the week. I am going to

719
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:44,359
Speaker 1: state mind first so that you can do yours. I

720
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 1: love your nook. It is gorgeously decorated. I have to

721
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:49,279
Speaker 1: say I'm a big fan of doors. I've been thinking

722
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:53,440
Speaker 1: about doors this week because the chaos that is outside

723
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 1: in my house is just like constant. And when I

724
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,360
Speaker 1: am in my recording space here, I have two doors

725
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:01,759
Speaker 1: between me and the outside world because this is an

726
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:05,840
Speaker 1: interior closet inside the home office. And I find that

727
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:08,800
Speaker 1: the more doors that are between me and other people,

728
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:12,360
Speaker 1: the harder it is for them to reach them. So

729
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 1: I love it. Maybe when I'm older, I can have

730
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 1: a nook in the hallway, when my kids are older

731
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 1: and grown up. But for the moment I am barricaded

732
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:25,719
Speaker 1: in here. Oh that's fanta emi. What is it they say,

733
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 1: like tall fences make good neighbors, or goods they make

734
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 1: a neighbor, Like many doors make a good working mom. Yes,

735
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 1: I think. Okay, here's my love of the week. I

736
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 1: recently started re rewatching for the third time The West Wing,

737
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:44,839
Speaker 1: which is just my comfort show. But this time I'm

738
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:49,760
Speaker 1: watching it and listening to the podcast that I didn't

739
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 1: listen to when it was originally on. I think it

740
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 1: started back in twenty seventeen, hosted by Josh Molina, who

741
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 1: was on the show called The West Wing Weekly, where

742
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 1: they go one episode at a time. I'm from the

743
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 1: pilot all the way through the end, and they just

744
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 1: analyze these episodes on a micro microscope level, and it

745
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 1: is such an interesting masterclass in storytelling and directing and writing.

746
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 1: You know, they have Aaron Storkin come in and speak,

747
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:20,800
Speaker 1: they have the actors and directors come in and speak,

748
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:23,400
Speaker 1: and it's almost like I feel like I'm kind of

749
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 1: going to a little story school listening to the podcast,

750
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:28,760
Speaker 1: and then I sit down and I watched the episode

751
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:30,919
Speaker 1: and it's just I mean, it's like a big bowl

752
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 1: of mac and cheese. It's so comforting. I love it. It

753
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:35,799
Speaker 1: It makes me so happy. Those of us who may

754
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 1: have watched it the first time in the nineties or

755
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 1: so when I was out, yes, it was very much

756
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 1: of the time. Yeah, all right, Well, Mary Laura, thank

757
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 1: you so much for joining us, so I really appreciate it.

758
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 1: Can you just tell our listeners where they can find you?

759
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me, Laura. Yes, I

760
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 1: have a website, Mary Laura Philpott dot com and that

761
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 1: is where you can sign up for my newsletter, which

762
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 1: I send maybe monthly, and I always give a book

763
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:00,359
Speaker 1: recommendation and then usually a link a song and some

764
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 1: sort of fun picture. I'm on Instagram. Instagram and Twitter

765
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 1: are probably the two I use the most. I do

766
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:09,440
Speaker 1: have a Facebook page. I started a TikTok, but then

767
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 1: I lost my password and I abandoned it. So the

768
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 1: TikTok was were you're going to showcase Frank the Turtle? Right? Yeah,

769
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 1: I thought about it and then I just lost Steve.

770
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:21,920
Speaker 1: So Instagram, Twitter and sign up for my newsletter and

771
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:23,799
Speaker 1: we can stay in touch. Sounds good. All right, thank

772
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:26,400
Speaker 1: you so much for joining us. Thanks well, that was

773
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,760
Speaker 1: a fun interview. Hope you guys enjoyed that. So today's

774
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:33,400
Speaker 1: question comes from a listener who wrote this specifically to

775
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 1: spare out, but we can both chime in a little

776
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:38,840
Speaker 1: bit on here. She says, how old were your children

777
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 1: when you started becoming intentional about planning and tracking your time.

778
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 1: We'll call this listener T in case somebody wants to

779
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,319
Speaker 1: find the question from Tea as they are searching here.

780
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,239
Speaker 1: The context is that Tea has a four year old

781
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 1: and a five month old. She was doing well using

782
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 1: her planner and sometimes a bullet journal before her second

783
00:39:56,280 --> 00:40:00,239
Speaker 1: child was born. Now she finds herself feeling we're at

784
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:02,040
Speaker 1: peace with all the work. And she found herself then

785
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 1: feeling at peace with all the things she had going on.

786
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 1: But now as she has her second kid, she hasn't

787
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:09,840
Speaker 1: managed to get back into our routine after the baby.

788
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 1: Works at home, and I'm constantly forgetting things, forgetting kid things,

789
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:15,400
Speaker 1: work things, me things, you name it. She said. I

790
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:17,399
Speaker 1: used to love planning in the mornings before the rest

791
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:18,920
Speaker 1: of the house was awake. Now I roll out of

792
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 1: bed at five forty five am with a baby and

793
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 1: can't stop to think. I would love to get back

794
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 1: into it, but I don't feel like sitting down with

795
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 1: my planner if I know the baby is going to

796
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 1: scream in two minutes, or my son is going to

797
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 1: run downstairs and try to scribble in my planner. So

798
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:36,000
Speaker 1: Sarah planning with little kids, so so so hard, And

799
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 1: I know exactly that impulse you mean where you're like,

800
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 1: if I could just get like a moment in the

801
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 1: morning to just sit there and lay out my day,

802
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:44,480
Speaker 1: everything would be better. But you just can't get that

803
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 1: moment because you're tired and your kids are waking you

804
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:50,360
Speaker 1: up and it just feels insurmountable. It will get better.

805
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:52,799
Speaker 1: I promise it will get better. Every single time I

806
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 1: had a baby, I switched from my more elaborate daily

807
00:40:56,560 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 1: planner to a weekly planner and wrote a lot us

808
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 1: in there because my brain just couldn't handle it and

809
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 1: I was too tired, and there just wasn't the band

810
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:08,880
Speaker 1: with And you're right, your kids might well hopefully your

811
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:10,440
Speaker 1: four and a half year old would know better. If

812
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 1: jennybeve scribbled, she knows like she wouldn't even dare scribble

813
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:15,759
Speaker 1: in my planner. I shouldn't tempt fate, but I don't know.

814
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:18,319
Speaker 1: Make sure they understand how incredibly important that is to you,

815
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 1: and hopefully that wouldn't happen. But in terms of the

816
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:23,440
Speaker 1: actual band with issue and the fatigue and the just

817
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:25,279
Speaker 1: not having peace to do it when you have the

818
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 1: energy to do it, I totally understand and I just

819
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 1: think you're normal. And in a year or so, when

820
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 1: your kids are sleeping more normally, more regularly, when you're

821
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:36,839
Speaker 1: not up through the night, and when you can kind

822
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 1: of count on a more consistent wake up time, I

823
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:42,279
Speaker 1: know you will have your planning mojo back. I guess.

824
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:44,279
Speaker 1: Then one other thing I'll mention is that if it's

825
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 1: super important to you to have a little morning planning session,

826
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:51,320
Speaker 1: see if your partner could certain days per week perhaps

827
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:53,879
Speaker 1: cover you, even if it's from like five forty five

828
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 1: to six am. Although again, I bet your nursing, and

829
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 1: I bet your baby just wakes up and they just

830
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 1: want you, and that's why it's like it's frustrating. But

831
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:02,560
Speaker 1: see if there's anything you could do to get that

832
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:04,479
Speaker 1: a little bit of morning coverage, if it would help

833
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 1: you to feel a little bit more centered to lay

834
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:09,320
Speaker 1: out your day. But don't feel bad if you can. Yeah,

835
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 1: although way to say if she is nursing first thing

836
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 1: in the morning. I fought, you know, in the time

837
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:14,440
Speaker 1: that the kid was on the left side, so I

838
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:16,840
Speaker 1: could use my right hand, I could do stuff like

839
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 1: right in a planner or type. So yeah, and the

840
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 1: kid is quiet, then right, like that's the time that

841
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:25,560
Speaker 1: you might actually be able to do something because they're

842
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 1: not requiring you to interact with them because they're busy eating.

843
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,879
Speaker 1: So just throwing that out there as an idea, one

844
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:34,799
Speaker 1: handed typing or writing. Your handwriting will not be the

845
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,839
Speaker 1: best in the world. They what I think. When you're

846
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:40,799
Speaker 1: the kids this age, it's about functional planning, not on

847
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:42,880
Speaker 1: the You know, you don't need to worry about the

848
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:46,239
Speaker 1: washy tape and the little multicolored dots or whatever it

849
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:49,400
Speaker 1: is you guys do. I don't know. She asked you,

850
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 1: and she said planning, so I assume she mostly means planning,

851
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 1: but she said she used the word tracking. I want

852
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 1: to throw out here that I started tracking my time

853
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 1: in April of twenty fifteen, which was when Alex was

854
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:03,799
Speaker 1: three months old. He's now seven and a half, so

855
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,399
Speaker 1: that means that I did track time through my two

856
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:09,760
Speaker 1: youngest kids babyhoods. But I think somewhat differently from planning,

857
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 1: like tracking is just a pretty rode activity, like I

858
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:15,560
Speaker 1: just check in three times a day and write down

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00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:17,359
Speaker 1: what I did since the last time I checked in,

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00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 1: So it's literally a three minute process per day that

861
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:23,759
Speaker 1: is done in one minute chunks. So if you are

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00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:25,840
Speaker 1: interested in tracking your time, and I think it's actually

863
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 1: a really kind of cool way to see things like

864
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 1: how much am I sleeping? When is the baby waking up?

865
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:31,839
Speaker 1: When am I feeding him? How many times per day?

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00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 1: You know, and have that memory as well of your

867
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:39,920
Speaker 1: kid's young years. You might try doing that, you know,

868
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:42,360
Speaker 1: to throw that out there as something that might be

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00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:46,280
Speaker 1: more feasible than maybe intense planning. But as for planning,

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00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 1: I mean I would also with Sarah say you might

871
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 1: want to like dial down expectations a little bit and

872
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 1: try to plan, you know, ten to fifteen minutes on

873
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:57,320
Speaker 1: Friday for the upcoming week, maybe five minutes at the

874
00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:00,160
Speaker 1: each end of each work day to plan the next day.

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00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:02,480
Speaker 1: You know, don't worry about making it elaborate, just do

876
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:04,879
Speaker 1: a little bit, and often even a little bit can

877
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 1: keep things from being chaotic. Yes, yes, all right, well

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00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 1: this has been the best of both worlds. I was

879
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 1: interviewing Mary Laura Philpott. We will be back next week

880
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 1: with more on making work and life fit together. Thanks

881
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 1: for listening. You can find me Sarah at the shoebox

882
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 1: dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and

883
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:28,840
Speaker 1: you can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com.

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00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 1: This has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please

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00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 1: join us next time for more on making work and

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00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:36,400
Speaker 1: life work together.