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Speaker 1: Listen. We are in the heyday of the bodysuit, of

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Speaker 1: the velcro wrap around the waist, and I feel like

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Speaker 1: it's snuck up on us.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it feels like everything and everyone wants to be

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Speaker 2: shaped inside of their clothes.

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Speaker 1: You know who is my favorite person that talks about shapewear? Who? Well,

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Speaker 1: they make my favorite shapewear ads and they're like, I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to be shaped like a Coca Cola bottle. Alonzo Arnold. Ah.

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Speaker 2: I love Alonzo Arnold. They are giving you looks and

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Speaker 2: they are giving you comedy, so I love it. But

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Speaker 2: just like you said, Alonzo Arnold is going to put

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Speaker 2: on that shapewear hon knee.

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Speaker 1: And Alonzo isn't the only one. A lot of people are.

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Speaker 1: And it really makes us think like has this always

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Speaker 1: been going on, just in different forms, and now it's acceptable.

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Speaker 1: I feel like we're one step away from the sports

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Speaker 1: rap outside the shirt. This really started with the slippery

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Speaker 1: slope with the compression sock. It all goes back to.

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Speaker 2: That I'm t T and I'm Zachiah and from Spotify.

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Speaker 3: This is Dope Labs.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that mixes hardcore science,

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Speaker 1: pop culture, and a healthy dose of friendship. The semester

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Speaker 1: is winding down and we want to have a really

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Speaker 1: special semester finale featuring all of you. So make sure

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Speaker 1: you give us a call and let us know your

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Speaker 1: favorite episode from this semester. Yes, call us to zero

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Speaker 1: two five six seven seven zero two eight, or if

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Speaker 1: you're shy with your voice, email as at contact at

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Speaker 1: Dope lapspodcast dot com.

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Speaker 2: This week, we're talking all about shapewear specifically. We really

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Speaker 2: wanted to know more about where it all started, what

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Speaker 2: it's made of, and the social impacts on the people

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Speaker 2: that wear it.

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Speaker 1: Let's get into the recitation. What do we know?

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Speaker 2: Well, we know that shapewear is everywhere. It feels like

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Speaker 2: it's in everything. I just bought a pair of pants,

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Speaker 2: just regular black pants, and there was like some shapewear

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Speaker 2: at the top. It was really tight at the top

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Speaker 2: and I wasn't even expecting it. So now it's being

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Speaker 2: incorporated into just regular apparel.

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Speaker 1: You know. I feel like when the Spanks Lady really

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Speaker 1: made it big. Oh yeah, I knew every celebrity was

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Speaker 1: going to have their shapewear aligned shapewear and like body

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Speaker 1: sculpting all those. Yeah, but underwear and undergarments, it's a huge.

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Speaker 2: Thing, absolutely, and we know that people use different types

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Speaker 2: of different things.

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Speaker 1: They have the compression stuff in the gut and they

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Speaker 1: letting it loose in the butt.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I have seen that. I've seen it for myself.

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Speaker 2: I've seen it with my own eyes.

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Speaker 1: And you know, a thing I know you know about

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Speaker 1: me is that I hate shapewear. All my friends are like, girl,

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Speaker 1: that dress will be so cute if you had on

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Speaker 1: some spanks or you had on some friends, not all

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Speaker 1: my friends, not you. You don't do that to me.

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Speaker 1: I want your gut and butt loose. You let me

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Speaker 1: be my real self.

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Speaker 2: But it also feels like it's really taking off where

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Speaker 2: celebrities are coming out with their own shapewear brands, and

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Speaker 2: now it's like in every home this old has Yiddy,

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Speaker 2: Kim Kardashian has skims.

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Speaker 1: In Atlanta has their own brand of those like corsets

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Speaker 1: and things and Tommy Buster things.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, and then I see a bunch of them

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Speaker 2: on Instagram, like Sweet Sweat, where it's like a waste

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Speaker 2: thing like a waiste trainer. But I have a lot

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Speaker 2: of questions like why is this so popular now? I

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Speaker 2: know we're going back to the maiden type dresses and

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Speaker 2: Victorian styles, Like are we getting course? Yes, are we

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Speaker 2: getting back to that? I'm not ready.

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Speaker 1: If we are, I'm not either. I'm not wearing a

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Speaker 1: hoop skirt.

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Speaker 2: Hey, the doorways are not wide enough anymore. I think

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Speaker 2: I want to know as a material scientist, like the

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Speaker 2: technology that's going into shapewear and these new age corsets,

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Speaker 2: because they're not your great, great great grannies corsets. And

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Speaker 2: I'm also curious about like the impact on society, particularly

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Speaker 2: when we think about body image and what we normally lies.

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Speaker 2: In addition to photoshop, these types of shapewear contraptions are

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Speaker 2: really changing what the beauty standards are, like, oh this

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Speaker 2: is normal or this is not when you go back.

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Speaker 2: I was looking at some old photos and they were like, oh,

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Speaker 2: this person was too thick, or they were too this

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Speaker 2: person was plus size, or.

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Speaker 1: They X, Y and Z. I'm like, in the nineties

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Speaker 1: it was messed up, But now I'm like, have we

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Speaker 1: gone the other way where we're like big booty, little leg,

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Speaker 1: you know, or really flat stomach, unexpected smoothness in these

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Speaker 1: different places. What does that do to our images of

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Speaker 1: self for men and women when we take those things off.

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Speaker 1: Is it just women wearing these shapewear? Because I think

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Speaker 1: men are wearing them too.

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Speaker 3: I've seen them.

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Speaker 1: Let's jump into the dissection. Our guest for today's lab

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Speaker 1: is doctor Wendy Burns Ardellino.

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Speaker 4: I'm Wendy Burns Ardellino.

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Speaker 5: I am the Dean of the College of Humanities Social

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Speaker 5: Sciences at the University of Houston Downtown and I am

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Speaker 5: a cultural studies practitioner and scholar.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Burns Ardolino is the author of Jiggle Reshaping American Women,

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Speaker 2: a book about American women in their relationship to traditional

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Speaker 2: foundation garments and modern shapewear.

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Speaker 1: Most of us have probably.

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Speaker 2: Heard about SPANX, like we talked about already, but we

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Speaker 2: wanted to learn more about what came before Spanx. How

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Speaker 2: did the idea of shapewear come to be?

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Speaker 1: Well, it begins with the corset.

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Speaker 5: That all kind of began in the nineteenth century, and

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Speaker 5: you would be hard pressed in Western society to find

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Speaker 5: a woman who didn't wear a corset in that time frame.

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Speaker 5: By the twentieth century, basically, corstree is on the ropes

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Speaker 5: a bit.

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Speaker 2: Corsets were traditional foundation garments, so garments that go under

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Speaker 2: your clothes before you put your clothes on top. It

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Speaker 2: was made to support a woman's torso, to hold the

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Speaker 2: women's torso in and train it into a specific desired shape.

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Speaker 2: They were handmade from rigid materials like wood, ivory, and whalebone.

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Speaker 1: As the quote unquote.

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Speaker 2: Ideal image and shape of women changed throughout time, soda corsets,

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Speaker 2: so there were multiple styles of corsets throughout history.

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Speaker 1: And my question is why, you know, why are women

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Speaker 1: supposed to be wearing whalebones while men are walking around

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Speaker 1: in free flowing pants.

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Speaker 5: The arguments about the need to wear foundation garments and

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Speaker 5: to wear shaping garments, and some of those include medical

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Speaker 5: discourse that women's bodies will actually not hold their form.

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Speaker 5: Women are not muscular enough, so they need the external

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Speaker 5: garment to hold for them, otherwise their organs are going

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Speaker 5: to just kind of drop out of their bodies or

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Speaker 5: something like that. And I've done some work in sport

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Speaker 5: discourse as well with regard to women who run. Some

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Speaker 5: of the medical discourse was that their uteruses would fall

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Speaker 5: out of their bodies so that there would be this

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Speaker 5: collapsing of organs, this idea that if you were going

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Speaker 5: to be bearing children that you needed to have a

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Speaker 5: certain form for that, that you needed to care for

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Speaker 5: your women parts and wearing shape.

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Speaker 4: Where was a part of that.

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Speaker 1: This is ridiculous. Yeah, absolutely ridiculous. Let me tell you.

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Speaker 2: We've talked about science and how it can be racist, sexist,

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Speaker 2: and homophobic, but you can see it specifically in this

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Speaker 2: scientific talk quote unquote from back in the day, and

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Speaker 2: they had it all wrong. Women weren't allowed to run

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Speaker 2: in marathons for this reason. They first started allowing women

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Speaker 2: to run in marathons in like the seventies because of

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Speaker 2: this idea.

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Speaker 1: Right, So the seventies probably for general marathons, but it

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Speaker 1: wasn't until nineteen eighty four when women were allowed to

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Speaker 1: participate in the Olympics in the marathons. There, that's not

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Speaker 1: that long ago.

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Speaker 5: What's interesting about corcatry itself is really it is a

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Speaker 5: locus of social control for women's bodies, and it really

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Speaker 5: does emerge out of the discourses of hygiene, moral purpeitude,

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Speaker 5: bound up with religion. Definitely patriarchal values, idealized images of

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Speaker 5: the cult of womanhood and women's role in society.

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Speaker 2: This sounds eerily familiar to women's fashion today and how

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Speaker 2: lots of trends and ideals are dictated by men in

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Speaker 2: the male gaze, high heels, the coke bottle figure. It

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Speaker 2: seems like not a lot has changed over the past

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Speaker 2: couple centuries. Yes, I'm not wearing high heels. I don't

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Speaker 2: like wearing high heels.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you see, I've been wearing my sneakers with my skirt. Okay,

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Speaker 1: Like these nikes feel good. So doctor Burns Ardellino told

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Speaker 1: us that corset use was at a high, but you know,

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Speaker 1: the trends are always changing. Skinny zy and curvy's in

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Speaker 1: big button, No, but big butt, but only with this shape.

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Speaker 1: Like you know, you're doing all these things to emphasize

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Speaker 1: and de emphasize your body according to these changing ideals.

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Speaker 1: And one thing that was a major factor in the

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Speaker 1: adoption of corset use was the advancement of technology for

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Speaker 1: the mass production of garments in the nineteen thirties, and

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Speaker 1: so this paved the way to the rise of modern.

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Speaker 5: Shapewear when they become mass produced garments. In some ways,

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Speaker 5: it democratizes shapewear because then more people can afford it.

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Speaker 5: But I think the flip side of that is that

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Speaker 5: the mass production of it enables it to be more controlled.

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Speaker 5: There's more mass social control at the same time.

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Speaker 1: Hmm. That's such a good point. So now it's not

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Speaker 1: just ladies who lunch walking around with their stomachs crushed in,

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Speaker 1: but now is everybody.

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Speaker 5: And then at that point, more and more people are

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Speaker 5: buying these products, right, and they might have multiple garments

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Speaker 5: as opposed to like when you had a course, you know,

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Speaker 5: maybe you would only have one or if you were

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Speaker 5: wealthy too.

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Speaker 4: At a time because they had to be handmade.

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Speaker 2: Not only did mass production accelerate the growth of the

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Speaker 2: shapewear industry, but new technology and innovation around fabrics and

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Speaker 2: textiles also allowed the market to flourish, boom, and thrive.

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Speaker 5: One of the first fabrics that was used is called

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Speaker 5: last X, and with last X, the elastic was woven

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Speaker 5: through the fabric to give it some stretch, right, So

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Speaker 5: that's kind of like a precursor to spandex.

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Speaker 1: So last text was vented in the thirties and Spandex,

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Speaker 1: which we know for is elasticity, first hit the market

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Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty eight. Although we see it in a

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Speaker 1: lot of things now. It was first used in bras,

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Speaker 1: jockstraps and athletic wear.

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Speaker 2: Now it feels like all our clothes has plastics. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: every item of clothing has some type of stretch, and

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Speaker 2: sometimes you'll be able to see it if your clothes

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Speaker 2: are falling apart, like minar, you can see the little

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Speaker 2: elastic threading that's also ran through the fabric as well,

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Speaker 2: just to give it some give, so that when you're

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Speaker 2: pulling on those jeans that they have some stretch.

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Speaker 1: I don't want no hard jeans. Keep the span dex

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Speaker 1: in mind.

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Speaker 2: I don't even know what it's like to put on

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Speaker 2: a pair of jeans that don't have any stretch. Nah,

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Speaker 2: that's why the cowboys were walking like that.

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Speaker 1: Yes, the jeans were crisped, the cardboard pants. It's not

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Speaker 1: the horses, y'all. It was the jeans the whole time.

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Speaker 1: A good grief.

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Speaker 2: Another factor that contributed to the rise of shapewear was advertising.

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Speaker 5: Advertising is occurring in magazines that women have access to,

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Speaker 5: but also trade journals, writing to fashion fires, get department stores.

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Speaker 4: And then a third prong of this is.

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Speaker 5: That literally a lot of these companies were marketing to

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Speaker 5: the salespeople who were on the floor of the department stores.

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Speaker 5: They would let them try out the garments, they would

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Speaker 5: solicit their feedback, they would recommend how to sell the garments.

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Speaker 5: So they'd be like, you need this garment because this

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Speaker 5: is your problem with your body, right, That's kind of

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Speaker 5: how they sold it.

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Speaker 1: So fast forward to the rise of feminism and the

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Speaker 1: women's movement in the sixties and seventies. Now there's where

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Speaker 1: we see a decline in shapewear use.

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Speaker 5: Feminism is on the right eyes and women really say

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Speaker 5: we're not going to have our bodies be objects for men.

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Speaker 4: We're going to enjoy our bodies for our bodies.

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Speaker 5: And culturally that's such a profound moment. And I know

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Speaker 5: the lore is that women burn the bras. They didn't

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Speaker 5: really burn the bras, they just took them off. But

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Speaker 5: I think the important part to understand about that was

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Speaker 5: it was a moment of collective cultural consciousness when women

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Speaker 5: really in the seventies were like, no, we're not gonna

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Speaker 5: subscribe to this anymore. And that went on for probably

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Speaker 5: twenty years, but it was quickly followed up with kind

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Speaker 5: of an internal girdilization where women focus so much on

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Speaker 5: what their bodies looked like.

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Speaker 2: So that's a really important point. Even if women weren't

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Speaker 2: wearing bras or shapewear, it doesn't mean that the social

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Speaker 2: conditions that led us to wear shapewear in the first

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Speaker 2: place no longer existed.

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Speaker 1: The girdles are in our minds.

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Speaker 2: So many people struggle with healthy really relationships to eating

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Speaker 2: or exercising, and a lot of that is from social

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Speaker 2: pressure to look a certain way. Shapewear and external garments

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Speaker 2: are just one way of affecting or controlling how our

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Speaker 2: bodies are seen.

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Speaker 5: Women are still trying to constrain themselves into an idealized figure,

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Speaker 5: and if you're not that figure, then what you do.

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Speaker 1: And these idealized images of what women should look like, well,

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Speaker 1: not only are they unrealistic and sexists, but they also

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Speaker 1: intersect with fat phobia and the idea that a person's

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Speaker 1: weight correlates directly to their health, and that's simply not true.

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Speaker 5: In my book, I actually have like hang tags from

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Speaker 5: the garments themselves that shows you that they're marketing it

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Speaker 5: as slimming, shaping, trimming. Everything is about weight and controlling weight.

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Speaker 4: When you look back at those.

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Speaker 5: Women's journals like Red Book and Women's Day, they're actually

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Speaker 5: recommending how to purchase just the right shapewear, how to

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Speaker 5: wear the right shape, where how to do it correctly.

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Speaker 4: So it's very prescriptive, filled with dos and don'ts.

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Speaker 5: And again it's like taking the control away from women

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Speaker 5: of their own bodies.

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Speaker 2: From the garments, to the advertising, to the reason behind

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Speaker 2: it all. In the first place, shapewear seems to point

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Speaker 2: back to one thing, controlling women's bodies.

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Speaker 4: And then there's this weird discourse that I follow throughout these.

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Speaker 5: Journal even advertisements for these garments, that basically says, wear

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Speaker 5: this garment and it will set you free.

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Speaker 4: It does this weird.

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Speaker 5: Dichotomy where it's saying that you need to be constrained

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Speaker 5: in order to be set free, and.

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Speaker 4: People buy that.

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Speaker 1: The math is not math.

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Speaker 5: And for me, women are told by their family members,

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Speaker 5: by their community, by society, by their religious leaders, by

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Speaker 5: the medical community, this is what you need to do

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Speaker 5: in order to be a proper and good woman. Otherwise,

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Speaker 5: like this idea of a loose woman. And hence the

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Speaker 5: title of my book, right jiggle because we don't want

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Speaker 5: jiggly bits, right, We want to have everything kind of

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Speaker 5: like elaminated in smooth surface.

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Speaker 2: I had no idea that the term loose woman was

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Speaker 2: about their body composition.

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Speaker 1: What I didn't either, I've always heard it related to

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Speaker 1: something different.

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Speaker 2: Exactly, Doctor Burns Ottolino said, the term loose women started

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Speaker 2: with Okay, if you have like jiggly bits, as she's

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Speaker 2: saying that, it correlates to you being like promiscuous because

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Speaker 2: all of your you know, how you're being held together,

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Speaker 2: and the patriarchy says, oh, if you're not all held

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Speaker 2: together and tight like that, then you're probably a promiscuous woman.

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Speaker 2: So jigly bits equals promiscuity. And then as time change,

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Speaker 2: we changed it to loose women, like you know, loose.

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Speaker 1: That's why, isn't it boy? The nineteenth century still has

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Speaker 1: a grip on us. Okay, let's take a break, and

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Speaker 1: when we come back, we'll talk about how celebrities are

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Speaker 1: contributing to the shapewear conversation and how social media affects

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Speaker 1: the way we see our bodies. We're back next week.

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Speaker 2: We're talking all about eco tourism with Sarah Stadola, the

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Speaker 2: impacts of travel on the environment and local communities.

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Speaker 1: But right now let's get back to the lab. We've

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Speaker 1: been talking with doctor Wendy Burns Ardelino all about the

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Speaker 1: history of shapewear, from corsets to spandex. Shapewears rise and

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Speaker 1: fall in the seventies with the women's movement and how

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Speaker 1: well basically shape where it's had a comeback.

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Speaker 5: And then in the nineties again technology allows us to

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Speaker 5: have these really pretty colored garments and stretch lays, and

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Speaker 5: spandex is huge part of that, and then the marketability

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Speaker 5: back to women.

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Speaker 2: It feels like shapewear has stuck around and is here

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Speaker 2: to stay. Spanx was launched in two thousand and.

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Speaker 1: I can remember when Spanx was launched, I was like, Oh,

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Speaker 1: who really needs that? We don't really need that. But

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Speaker 1: I can also remember, you know what else came out

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Speaker 1: that I feel like people don't talk about enough. That

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Speaker 1: was borderline shapewear but make it fashion American apparel. Do

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Speaker 1: you have some pants from them like that shiny shapewere

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Speaker 1: it's not shapewear, but it's like spandex is just to

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Speaker 1: your body. Oh yes, yes, yes, I wore those pants out.

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Speaker 2: It's not shapewear. It's not shapewear, it's a brand, no,

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Speaker 2: But the smooth like.

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Speaker 1: Silhouette, yeah, it was all like spandex like that was

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Speaker 1: the thing for a while. Yeah. So it started off

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Speaker 1: as underwear.

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Speaker 2: Then we transitioned to the legging, you know, wearing things

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Speaker 2: that we considered underwear now on the outside. And then

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Speaker 2: now we had full blown bodysuits with the gloves all

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Speaker 2: the way up to the neck.

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Speaker 1: Mock turtleneck. That's not my kind of turtlenick. Do you

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Speaker 1: remember when people were wearing those like, hmm, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: be aging myself. But like those long shirts that were

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Speaker 1: kind of like tunics. Some of them were baby doll shaped,

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Speaker 1: a big belt and just like tights. Yes, I am people,

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Speaker 1: she was me. I never knew where the belt was

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Speaker 1: supposed to go. I have a short tour, so I

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Speaker 1: just felt like it was around my neck. I felt

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Speaker 1: like I could not get it right, you know. And

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Speaker 1: in addition to those brands, I think we've seen another

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Speaker 1: wave of shapewear booming along with the athletic wear ath

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Speaker 1: leisure with celebrity brands like Skims, Ivy, park Yitty, Lululemon.

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Speaker 1: Lululemon has a hold on the girls, well the girls

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Speaker 1: with money because it's expensive and I'm not getting Lululemon

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Speaker 1: because it doesn't come in my size.

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Speaker 2: Baby With Yity, the reason why it was so important

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Speaker 2: and why people find their groundbreaking is because it prioritizes

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Speaker 2: larger sizes, like it starts at six X, and that's

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Speaker 2: not something.

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Speaker 1: That you see for most apparel.

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Speaker 2: For a lot of apparel, they might have larger sizes,

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Speaker 2: but they'll only have a few and so those will

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Speaker 2: be sold out really quickly, and so then there's an

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Speaker 2: entire population of people who don't have access to some

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Speaker 2: of the clothing that they would like to have access to.

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Speaker 2: You know, there's a huge mass production of extra extra

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Speaker 2: smalls and size zeros and things like that, but folks

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Speaker 2: that are on the plus size and of the spectrum,

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Speaker 2: they don't have that option even in store.

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Speaker 1: You can't go into a store and find those sizes.

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Speaker 2: What Lizo is doing, what Yity is doing as a brand,

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Speaker 2: is keeping the focal point the focus is plus size women.

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Speaker 2: And that's really important because what the manufacturers in these

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Speaker 2: apparel companies are always saying is that there's no market

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Speaker 2: for plus size, Like you can't make money prioritizing plus

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Speaker 2: size women. And what she's saying is you're wrong, and

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna show you. And she has like she's been

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Speaker 2: selling out and so many people are wearing YITDDI now.

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Speaker 1: I mean, and we see this in general, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean. If there's only a few being made,

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Speaker 1: those few are selling out. You know, when you talk

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Speaker 1: about scarcity for large sizes and we're talking extra large

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Speaker 1: and two exl Okay, everybody deserves to have these options.

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Speaker 1: I think this is something we've talked about in a

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Speaker 1: couple of different places, but we're seeing it once again.

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Speaker 5: I have recently come into contact with some younger women

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Speaker 5: and preteen girls who are just mortified about their images

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Speaker 5: in social media. And I do feel like, as someone

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Speaker 5: who grew up in the eighties and nineties that I

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Speaker 5: did not grow up with that pervasiveness of social media

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Speaker 5: controlling my every image. But I think for women, it's

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Speaker 5: always like any image of yourself that's out there in

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Speaker 5: your body, really it puts you at risk.

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Speaker 4: And so it's concerning.

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Speaker 1: I mean really when you think about it, like if

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Speaker 1: women's bodies are often under critique or being critiqued, the

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Speaker 1: more opportunity to see those bodies, the more opportunity there

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Speaker 1: is to critique them, and so it is some type

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Speaker 1: of risk. I can remember coming across some features of

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Speaker 1: me in the eighth grade. I didn't know anything about posing,

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Speaker 1: none of that stuff. I was just like a teenage dirtbag,

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Speaker 1: Okay is what I was looking like.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And now eighth graders these days, they know their angles,

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Speaker 2: they know how to find the light, they know how

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Speaker 2: to smile. They're wearing a full face of makeup. Yes,

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Speaker 2: I mean, things are just very different now. And social

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Speaker 2: media definitely has that effect because what social media does

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Speaker 2: is put you in a place where you're constantly comparing

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Speaker 2: yourself to other people. And so they're looking at some

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Speaker 2: of these celebrities who are absolutely photoshopping their photos and saying,

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Speaker 2: I want to look like that too.

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Speaker 1: It takes me back to our Edges Snatched episode where

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Speaker 1: we had with doctor Rocky Harris and he talked about

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Speaker 1: the digital camera and the cameras in our phones, taking

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Speaker 1: pictures of yourself and constantly evaluating yourself, and then with

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Speaker 1: social media, other people evaluating you. You know, and like

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Speaker 1: you said, a lot of these folks are photoshopping these photos.

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Speaker 1: Those photos have run through so many processors before they

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Speaker 1: get to your screen. Right if you look like that,

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Speaker 1: call for help and so On one hand is really

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Speaker 1: interesting because celebrities are sometimes being more transparent about like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is the shape where I'm using, instead of pretending

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Speaker 1: that it's their natural body. True.

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Speaker 2: But on the other hand, and social media means that

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Speaker 2: people are more likely to be scrutinizing our bodies and

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Speaker 2: feel pressure to look a certain way.

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Speaker 5: There's a connection there to feeding that paranoia that women

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Speaker 5: need to be a certain way. We're constantly chasing, chasing,

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Speaker 5: chasing this.

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Speaker 4: Idealized body, this.

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Speaker 5: Idealized image of femininity that we can never attain. We're

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Speaker 5: basically self policing. We're in the panopticon where we're looking

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Speaker 5: at ourselves through the lens of the male gaze, and

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Speaker 5: we're saying, no.

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Speaker 4: That's not right, and that's not right, and you have

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Speaker 4: to change that, and you have to change thought.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Burns. Ardelino shared an idea from feminist philosopher Iris

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Speaker 1: Marian Young about how women can occupy the male gaze

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Speaker 1: even when they're trying to avoid it.

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Speaker 5: She's like, people will make the argument that I love

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Speaker 5: this beautiful sweater or I love this beautiful.

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Speaker 4: Piece of shapewear, for example.

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Speaker 5: But what they love, what women are enjoying about it

436
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 5: isn't the experience of wearing the garment right, the feel

437
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 5: of the garment or wearing the garment. They love the

438
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:12,360
Speaker 5: way they look in the garment, which the way they

439
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:17,439
Speaker 5: look in the garment is them occupying the male gaze

440
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 5: and looking at themselves.

441
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 4: I really believe that that's a social norm for us.

442
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:28,159
Speaker 5: For women, it's like we're pre programmed from birth to

443
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 5: experience our bodies as other people see us right through

444
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 5: that social lens. It's almost impossible to see yourself without

445
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 5: occupying the male gaze.

446
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 2: I think that's a really important framework that doctor burns

447
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 2: Ardolino is highlighting because I feel like a lot of

448
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,159
Speaker 2: folks nowadays are saying, oh, I don't drust for men,

449
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 2: I dress for women. I like when women are complimenting me.

450
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 2: I don't need a man to compliment me, which is true,

451
00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 2: I'm right there with you. But then you also have

452
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:02,400
Speaker 2: to think about why other women are finding what you're

453
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:06,200
Speaker 2: wearing attractive, and it's usually because of these patriarchal standards

454
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 2: where it's like, yes, waste is snatched, honey, Yes, booty

455
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 2: is looking right. Yes, legs and all the things like that.

456
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 2: But these are all things that men over the centuries

457
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 2: have programmed us to believe. Is what the definition of

458
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 2: beauty is.

459
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 1: Wow, I'm about to start saying, yes, girl, posture is slumped,

460
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 1: relaxation is on a thousand Yes girl looking cozy, looking comfy.

461
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,920
Speaker 2: That's a sleepy girl realness. That's right. I love those

462
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 2: bags under your eyes. I can tell you've been working hard.

463
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:39,680
Speaker 1: Yes, And so that begs the question of, like, what

464
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,879
Speaker 1: can we do to detach our self worth and confidence

465
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 1: from the shape of our bodies and how we look, Like,

466
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 1: how can we pull those things apart.

467
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,120
Speaker 5: I'm still struggling with it, and I'm fifty four.

468
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,359
Speaker 4: So I would say what I have come to now,

469
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:56,680
Speaker 4: based on experience.

470
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 5: Is that if we focus on kind of our mind,

471
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 5: body spirit connection and what it's like to inhabit our

472
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 5: bodies in the world and to be whole and well

473
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 5: and whatever that means for you, because I think that's

474
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 5: a very individualized experience. What constitutes that and how can

475
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 5: I occupy the space of the healthiest, wellest, fittest version

476
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:27,479
Speaker 5: of myself? What is it like to inhabit this body

477
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,239
Speaker 5: and what joy can we find in this body? And

478
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:34,400
Speaker 5: if I focus on that experientially as what that feels

479
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 5: like and the practice of that, I.

480
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 4: Think it gets around a little bit the corners of

481
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 4: what does your body look like all the time.

482
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 1: So it sounds like we're trying to shift the perspective

483
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 1: from what does my body look like? To what can

484
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 1: my body do for me? Or what can I do

485
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 1: with my body? And that feels like a really powerful approach.

486
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 5: Having a body that can do things and finding joy

487
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 5: in the capacity of one's body is something that's often

488
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 5: denied women. Not all women and not always, but a

489
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 5: lot of women never experience their bodies as a body

490
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 5: that can do things and that can be intentional and

491
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 5: can achieve things. I can totally imagine people being like, well,

492
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 5: that's a very ablest attitude about women's physicality. But I

493
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 5: think whatever your physical limitters are, and I can say

494
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 5: this as someone who has a metal plate in tense

495
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,239
Speaker 5: screws in my leg, that there are still things that

496
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 5: you can do. I have been a triathlete for ten

497
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 5: years and I had a major injury in twenty seventeen,

498
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 5: but I still have a very active lifestyle and applying

499
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 5: yourselves to the things that you can do. It does

500
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 5: bring you a certain amount of confidence and also like

501
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:00,959
Speaker 5: it puts you in relationship with your body in a

502
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 5: different way than visa via the lens of social media

503
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 5: or the mirror.

504
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 1: That is such a good point.

505
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, So no matter what your abilities are when it

506
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 2: comes to your body, you can still enjoy the body

507
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 2: that you have and the things that it can do.

508
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 4: Right, So here's my pitch.

509
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 5: My pitch is for cultural studies and media studies education,

510
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 5: so that our kids, our students, our women are all

511
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 5: going into society with those media goggles on, they have

512
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 5: the tools to discern what's happening in society.

513
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 1: This makes me think back to Doctor Burn's Ardelino talking

514
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 1: about being socialized for this kind of stuff from birth,

515
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 1: you know, And it makes me think back to people

516
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 1: in my family saying sit still or sit like a lady, right,

517
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 1: don't wrinkle your dress, you know, don't switch your hair out,

518
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 1: and just you know, all of these things. Don't get

519
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 1: your clothes dirty, yes, all that stuff. You're just limiting yourself. Now,

520
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 1: somebody had to do laundry, So I understand part of.

521
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 2: That but but you're doing all of these things so

522
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 2: other people see you as nice. And I think one

523
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 2: of the things we didn't really talk about earlier in

524
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 2: the episode, but should be considered, is that we sometimes

525
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 2: see this in men.

526
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 1: Like in the gym Bros. Yeah, you're trying to get

527
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 1: that ultimate V shaped body.

528
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 2: And going to great measures that are very unhealthy to

529
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:31,959
Speaker 2: try and get it.

530
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm like, why you want to be shaped? Like

531
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 1: Larry the Lobster who decided that.

532
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 2: Was in exactly and they faced some of the same

533
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 2: societal pressures that women face.

534
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 1: It's not exactly the same.

535
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 2: It's different because men still have male privilege, but there's

536
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 2: still a lot of men that are suffering because of

537
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 2: social media, body image and things like that.

538
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that just takes us right back

539
00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 1: to this thing that you kind of started touching on

540
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: earlier tea about okay Mailgates, Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, and pressure.

541
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 1: But we still are existing in this society, so right,

542
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 1: as long as we're going to exist here, there's something

543
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 1: about being able to exist comfortably in our skin. I

544
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 1: guess I better copyright Beyonce Buovo and my skin Cozy

545
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 1: and shape, where in some ways can be empowering, but

546
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 1: it can also be limiting. And from the empowering aspect,

547
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 1: everybody should have access to it right absolutely, so that

548
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 1: you can look the way that you want to look

549
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 1: when you look in the mirror. I mean, you know,

550
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 1: we talk about this all the time. Too much of

551
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 1: anything can be bad. Now, if you are nipping and

552
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 1: tucking with spandex and lycra all the time, you may

553
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 1: forget or it may start to not like what your

554
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 1: body looks like without those things right, and that feels

555
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 1: very possible exactly.

556
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 2: And we talk to Manti Oid Harris about the effects

557
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 2: of social media and how body dysmorphia is now at

558
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 2: an all time high. It seems like because people are

559
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 2: using these filters and celebrities are using a lot of shapewear,

560
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 2: a lot of filters to make their bodies look a

561
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 2: certain way, but that's not actually what it is in reality,

562
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 2: and it all can negatively affect our perception of ourselves

563
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 2: because it's like, wow, how come my body doesn't look

564
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 2: like that? When the truth is their body doesn't look

565
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 2: like that.

566
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 1: Such a good point.

567
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 2: They're just doing what they want to do in order

568
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 2: to look the way that they want to look.

569
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 1: All right, it's time for one thing. This episode focused

570
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: on shapewear, and we talked about some positives and negatives

571
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 1: for shapewear, but the reality is people are wearing it.

572
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 2: Yes, So shapewear is a part of our everyday lives,

573
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 2: and so we really want to support shapewear that is

574
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 2: inclusive of everybody type, everybody's size, and of marginalized communities.

575
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 2: So we really recommend Yiddy and we will be adding

576
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 2: some more shapewear brands in the show notes, so check

577
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 2: it out at Dope labspodcast dot com.

578
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:14,720
Speaker 1: All right, that's it for Lab eighty.

579
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:17,799
Speaker 2: I want to know are y'all wearing shapewear If you are,

580
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:18,879
Speaker 2: what's your favorite kid?

581
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 1: What do you like? What don't you like about it?

582
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 1: Call us and tell us what you thought. Call us

583
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:27,440
Speaker 1: at two zero two five six seven seven zero two eight. Gabriella,

584
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 1: we got your message last week. Okay, thank you, and

585
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:33,319
Speaker 1: so just know we aren't listening to those messages when

586
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:36,359
Speaker 1: you do call Now, the semester is winding down, so

587
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 1: don't forget to call in and tell us what you

588
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:41,880
Speaker 1: want to hear about. In our final episode of the semester,

589
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 1: which is gonna air on October twenty seven. Remember that's

590
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 1: two zero two five six seven seven zero two.

591
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 2: Eight, and don't forget There's so much more for you

592
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:51,879
Speaker 2: to dig into on our website. There'll be a cheat

593
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 2: sheet for today's lab and additional links and resources in

594
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 2: the show notes. Plus, you can sign up for our newsletter.

595
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 2: Check it out at Dope Labs Podcast special Thanks to

596
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:06,840
Speaker 2: today's guest expert, doctor Wendy Burns Ardolino. Her book Jiggle

597
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,240
Speaker 2: is free on academia dot edu.

598
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,839
Speaker 1: You can find her on Twitter at burns Ardellino, and.

599
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 2: You can find us on Twitter and Instagram at Dope

600
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 2: Lab Podcast.

601
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 1: Tt is on Twitter and Instagram at dr Underscore t

602
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 1: s h O, and you can find Zakia at z

603
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 1: said So. Dope Labs is a Spotify original production from

604
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 1: Mega Owned Media Group. Our producers are Jenny Radlettmass and

605
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:35,360
Speaker 1: Lydia Smith of Wave Runner Studios. Our associate producer is

606
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 1: Caro Rolando. Editing and sound design by Rob Smerzaiak, with

607
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:43,760
Speaker 1: additional mixing and sound design by Hannes Brown. Original music

608
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 1: composed and produced by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex Sugiura from

609
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 1: Spotify Creative producer Miguel Contreras. Special thanks to Shirley Ramos,

610
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 1: Jess Borison, Till krat Key and Brian Marquis, executive producers

611
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Speaker 1: from Mega owned Media Group rs T T Show Dia,

612
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Speaker 1: and Zakiah Wattley