1
00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,440
Speaker 1: I remember going to Essence Festival and they asked me

2
00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:05,080
Speaker 1: to do a panel, and when I tell you, they

3
00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:07,200
Speaker 1: ate me up on the panel like the black women,

4
00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:08,480
Speaker 1: and that audience.

5
00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:10,800
Speaker 2: Was like, why are you even here?

6
00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:11,559
Speaker 3: Hey?

7
00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:13,520
Speaker 2: You know I mean ate me up?

8
00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:16,439
Speaker 3: And the audience are your fellow panelists? Why?

9
00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:20,520
Speaker 2: Like right? It was like it was happening in real time.

10
00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,920
Speaker 3: What up? Y'all? Welcome to Not My Best Moment Podcast

11
00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:46,120
Speaker 3: with me keV on Stage, New York Times best selling

12
00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:49,920
Speaker 3: author of Successful Failure. Here is a podcast where I

13
00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:55,920
Speaker 3: talked to my friends, artists, entertainers, athletes, and today executives

14
00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:59,720
Speaker 3: about things that they failed at, mistakes they made, how

15
00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:03,560
Speaker 3: they learn, how they grew, and what may come what

16
00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:07,479
Speaker 3: made them who they are today. We have executive and

17
00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:12,800
Speaker 3: creator of Basketball Wives, Shannie Henderson, founder and CEO of

18
00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:16,679
Speaker 3: A Mirror Ink, which a production company behind Basketball Wives,

19
00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:20,640
Speaker 3: EP of Shani and Kon's Destination I Do, EP, creator

20
00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:24,199
Speaker 3: writer of Shawnee's Home Core, First Lady of Lighthouse Church

21
00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:27,920
Speaker 3: in Houston. Co hosts have grown and growing web series

22
00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:32,200
Speaker 3: and podcasts with Keon Henderson, author of Undefeated, Changing the

23
00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:38,160
Speaker 3: Rules and Winning on My Terms. Enough Shanni, Enough, there's

24
00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:41,400
Speaker 3: more things. We get it, we got it. You're amazing,

25
00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:46,240
Speaker 3: You're decorated. Everybody knows that we are here to first

26
00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:47,560
Speaker 3: welcome you to the show.

27
00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:50,720
Speaker 2: Clap clap, claps so much. Thank you for having me.

28
00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:53,160
Speaker 3: And here to clear the air and let people know.

29
00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:55,200
Speaker 3: Now I got to tell you, Shane, some of the

30
00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:57,880
Speaker 3: things that I found in my research that your team's

31
00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:02,160
Speaker 3: sent over was a surprise to me. I did not know. Yes,

32
00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:06,520
Speaker 3: I knew you created basketball wise okay, but I didn't

33
00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:09,800
Speaker 3: know how difficult it was for you. Let us know

34
00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:14,720
Speaker 3: about that journey, because to me, it was much more

35
00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:16,160
Speaker 3: different than I thought.

36
00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:21,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, Basketball Wives was really created in a moment of.

37
00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:25,680
Speaker 2: Uncertainty and desperation. In my life.

38
00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:32,280
Speaker 1: I was divorcing and nobody knew it, but I was.

39
00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:35,320
Speaker 1: I was preparing to divorce, and I just didn't have

40
00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:39,640
Speaker 1: any stability I had. I was not one of those

41
00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:42,400
Speaker 1: wives that was saving for a rainy day just i'd appear,

42
00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:46,360
Speaker 1: you know, thinking this was forever, and I didn't have

43
00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:46,880
Speaker 1: a reason to.

44
00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:48,919
Speaker 2: In my mind, I didn't have a reason too.

45
00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:53,920
Speaker 1: And so I literally left my marriage with nothing but

46
00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:59,240
Speaker 1: hopes that things would be okay until a judge said

47
00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:02,679
Speaker 1: it would be okay, God knows how long that could take.

48
00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:07,120
Speaker 1: So Basketball Wives was actually developed during that time of

49
00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,080
Speaker 1: just like I got something's got to work. And I

50
00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:11,800
Speaker 1: didn't know how to pitch a TV show. I didn't

51
00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:14,359
Speaker 1: know how to put a deck together. Luckily back then

52
00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:16,600
Speaker 1: you didn't really need one.

53
00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:22,079
Speaker 2: But it was it was literally God sent that, you know.

54
00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:25,920
Speaker 1: I went into the right rooms and the right people

55
00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:26,960
Speaker 1: said yes.

56
00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:32,000
Speaker 3: So take us back in time. What year was this?

57
00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:36,640
Speaker 1: This was two thousand and nine that I went and

58
00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:38,200
Speaker 1: sold Basketball Wives?

59
00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:39,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, because okay.

60
00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:42,840
Speaker 3: So you said you you said, I'm sorry I interrupted you.

61
00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:45,400
Speaker 2: No, it's okay. It was on air by twenty ten.

62
00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:50,680
Speaker 1: So two thousand and nine is when I was doing the.

63
00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:50,640
Speaker 2: The getting in the rooms grinding.

64
00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:54,120
Speaker 3: Okay, So take me to that moment. It's two thousand

65
00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:57,480
Speaker 3: and nine. You you you have this idea. Where where

66
00:03:57,480 --> 00:03:58,840
Speaker 3: did the idea even come from?

67
00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:04,520
Speaker 1: The idea came while I was sitting in those stands married.

68
00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:07,240
Speaker 1: I was like, you know, I saw the Kardashians, I'm like,

69
00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:10,240
Speaker 1: how hard is this? And people would always come and

70
00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:11,720
Speaker 1: ask like, what do you guys do?

71
00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:11,880
Speaker 3: Is?

72
00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:14,040
Speaker 2: Why did you guys all hang out together? What do

73
00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:14,920
Speaker 2: you do every day?

74
00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,000
Speaker 1: You know, and I'm thinking, oh, this could be a

75
00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:21,640
Speaker 1: show because there are some characters sitting amongst me and

76
00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:24,880
Speaker 1: the things that actually go on during those games and

77
00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:29,039
Speaker 1: the conversations, and it's so much going on, or it

78
00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:30,400
Speaker 1: used to be. Let me say, I don't know what

79
00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:33,680
Speaker 1: they're doing now effect it could be so much going

80
00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:35,960
Speaker 1: on in the stands, and I'm like, this is absolutely

81
00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:39,039
Speaker 1: a show. So it was an idea. I just had

82
00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:42,280
Speaker 1: no desire to do it while I was comfortable.

83
00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:47,400
Speaker 3: Mmm. Yeah, So could you say that your uncomfortability kind

84
00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:50,000
Speaker 3: of pushed you into that next season of your life,

85
00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:51,320
Speaker 3: pushing into the creative season.

86
00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:55,839
Speaker 1: But I even say to this day like I want

87
00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:59,800
Speaker 1: to be uncomfortable, Like that literally drives me. So I

88
00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:03,000
Speaker 1: know when things are hard, when I'm uncomfortable, something big

89
00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:04,200
Speaker 1: is coming for me.

90
00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:09,280
Speaker 3: Yeah. So you sold a show with noses, a real

91
00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:13,800
Speaker 3: no storyboard. What pitch did you have? Because it's hard

92
00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:16,960
Speaker 3: to sell a show with that stuff. What did you say?

93
00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:19,760
Speaker 3: And also because it aired the next year, that's a

94
00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:23,440
Speaker 3: really quick development process. Sometimes development can, even for unscripted,

95
00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:26,559
Speaker 3: can take years. What do you think made this show

96
00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:27,320
Speaker 3: so different?

97
00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,359
Speaker 1: Well, I think it was the timing, and then it

98
00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:33,760
Speaker 1: was like the Kardashians, and I think The Housewives was

99
00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:37,440
Speaker 1: right right around there. It was nothing out there. So

100
00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:41,640
Speaker 1: I was able to come with not only myself, my

101
00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:44,160
Speaker 1: story because I really didn't want to be on camera.

102
00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:46,560
Speaker 1: I was like, I can get the ladies. I got

103
00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:50,120
Speaker 1: the ladies for you, and I had a few already

104
00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:51,520
Speaker 1: that I had talked to. So I was like, I

105
00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:54,360
Speaker 1: got this person. Is maybe three or four ladies I had,

106
00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:56,520
Speaker 1: And I was like, after that, it's easy because it's

107
00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:59,440
Speaker 1: like word of mouth. They just believed me and I

108
00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:00,359
Speaker 1: really did happened.

109
00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:02,160
Speaker 2: I did, really did come with three or four ladies.

110
00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:03,080
Speaker 2: I didn't lie.

111
00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:06,800
Speaker 1: But when I tell you, those three or four ladies

112
00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:08,800
Speaker 1: came through with the friend. Oh, I got a friends

113
00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:12,880
Speaker 1: yea d D and dating this person, it was super easy.

114
00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:16,480
Speaker 1: But getting in the rooms was just like word of mouth,

115
00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:19,600
Speaker 1: like people along the way. While I was married to Shaquille,

116
00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,440
Speaker 1: I did like access Hollywood. I did little things where

117
00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:24,760
Speaker 1: I was. I met a lot of people, as you

118
00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:27,000
Speaker 1: can imagine. So it was like making those phone calls

119
00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:29,480
Speaker 1: and just saying, hey, I have an idea, what do

120
00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:29,840
Speaker 1: I do?

121
00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:30,719
Speaker 2: Who do I talk to?

122
00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:33,719
Speaker 1: Somebody would hand me off, got handed off a few

123
00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:36,120
Speaker 1: times to different people and just got in the right

124
00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:40,320
Speaker 1: I remember going to Mark Burnett's office. Oh wow, it's

125
00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:43,400
Speaker 1: not even interested in anything like that, right, But I

126
00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:45,960
Speaker 1: knew he was the reality world.

127
00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:47,360
Speaker 3: He survivor, right, Yeah.

128
00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:51,360
Speaker 1: It's not even this concept. So he his people were

129
00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:53,680
Speaker 1: able to lead me to the next folks.

130
00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:56,760
Speaker 3: So, so did you even have like an agent or

131
00:06:56,839 --> 00:06:57,799
Speaker 3: manager at this time?

132
00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:01,000
Speaker 2: Nothing was out here in Hollywood?

133
00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:05,240
Speaker 1: Solo dolo solo dolo making phone calls. I had one

134
00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,440
Speaker 1: of my best friends. I would give her numbers like

135
00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:11,760
Speaker 1: colleague person, see if we can get a meeting. So

136
00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:16,680
Speaker 1: by myself, no agent, no manager, nothing, because I literally,

137
00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:19,800
Speaker 1: to be honest, was kind of moving in secret because

138
00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:22,800
Speaker 1: I didn't want my ex to sabotage because I was like,

139
00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:25,560
Speaker 1: if he finds out I'm doing this, he might try

140
00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:26,880
Speaker 1: to destroy it.

141
00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:27,440
Speaker 2: I don't know.

142
00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:30,320
Speaker 1: We were in the good space then, so I was

143
00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:33,240
Speaker 1: secretly having these meetings. So I didn't want to connect

144
00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:35,520
Speaker 1: with too many people besides the people that I thought

145
00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:36,840
Speaker 1: could get me to the next space.

146
00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:42,440
Speaker 3: So let me ask this, what in your life gave

147
00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:46,119
Speaker 3: you the confidence that you could like just burst into

148
00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:50,480
Speaker 3: a totally new industry. Was there something that you did

149
00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:52,960
Speaker 3: when you were younger creative in college that made you

150
00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:55,200
Speaker 3: feel like I can make a TV show, because usually

151
00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:56,840
Speaker 3: people work their way up, but it seems like you

152
00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:58,360
Speaker 3: were just like, I got this idea, I'm gonna make

153
00:07:58,400 --> 00:07:58,760
Speaker 3: it happen.

154
00:07:59,200 --> 00:07:59,440
Speaker 2: Yeah.

155
00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:01,960
Speaker 1: I can't said that there was a thing, But I

156
00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:05,560
Speaker 1: grew up in a household where my father spoke life

157
00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:09,480
Speaker 1: into us consistently. I mean from a little girl, I

158
00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:12,600
Speaker 1: remember my dad telling me you're special, You not like

159
00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:15,480
Speaker 1: anybody else. You can do anything you want to do.

160
00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:19,160
Speaker 1: And I know that's typical, right parents tell. But my dad,

161
00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:22,040
Speaker 1: when I tell you, it was a practice, like he

162
00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:24,760
Speaker 1: literally was like, yeah, you're gonna go in that room

163
00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:27,640
Speaker 1: and you're gonna dominate. Like, don't leave that room without

164
00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:31,080
Speaker 1: meeting somebody you didn't know, introducing yourself, making an impact,

165
00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:34,160
Speaker 1: make them remember you when you leave. So I think

166
00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:36,080
Speaker 1: that confidence was just kind of built in me, and

167
00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:38,920
Speaker 1: it didn't even cross my mind that I don't know

168
00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:42,600
Speaker 1: what I'm doing. It was more so like I gotta

169
00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:45,360
Speaker 1: make this happen. This is going to happen. I'm going

170
00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:48,000
Speaker 1: to have the right conversation with the right person somewhere,

171
00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:49,640
Speaker 1: and if it's twenty conversations.

172
00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:51,920
Speaker 2: That's what I'm gonna do. It didn't cross my mind

173
00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:53,800
Speaker 2: that I couldn't do it, It really didn't.

174
00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:56,600
Speaker 3: I love that because I think a lot of times

175
00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:00,440
Speaker 3: people think you have to have all the answers and

176
00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:03,400
Speaker 3: everything figured out and all the right people and teens,

177
00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:05,000
Speaker 3: and you're like, I don't know if you've seen the

178
00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:08,160
Speaker 3: movie Collateral, but Jamie Fox's character is like talking about

179
00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:10,679
Speaker 3: I gotta get the insurance, and Tom Cruise is just like, man,

180
00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:13,120
Speaker 3: you ain't gonna do nothing. Man, shut up. If you

181
00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:15,120
Speaker 3: was gonna do it, you would have done it. But

182
00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:18,240
Speaker 3: I think what you're touching on is those things are important,

183
00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:23,480
Speaker 3: but the most important thing is will, Like I'm just

184
00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:27,880
Speaker 3: not gonna be told no. This industry leads the league

185
00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:31,640
Speaker 3: in telling people no, no pun intended, and you just

186
00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:34,360
Speaker 3: weren't gonna take no for answer. How many pitches do

187
00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:36,160
Speaker 3: you remember how many pitches you had to take before

188
00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:36,959
Speaker 3: you got any traction.

189
00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:41,280
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go it was probably maybe five or six.

190
00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:43,400
Speaker 1: But when I tell you, out of those five or six,

191
00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:48,400
Speaker 1: at least four to five wanted it. It was like

192
00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:50,719
Speaker 1: a little battle there, which I was like, oh it

193
00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:57,079
Speaker 1: were you know? So yeah, I got maybe one or

194
00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:00,600
Speaker 1: two nos. And I know this is like a Cinderella story. Yeah,

195
00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:03,240
Speaker 1: trust me, it has never happened again in my career.

196
00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:05,480
Speaker 2: It has not.

197
00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:10,680
Speaker 1: It's never been this easy ever again for anything else

198
00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:13,200
Speaker 1: I've ever done. So this is a once in a

199
00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:19,679
Speaker 1: lifetime testimony. Okay, but thank god because it had to

200
00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:21,360
Speaker 1: work at that time of my life.

201
00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:24,080
Speaker 2: It had to work. So I just think I was

202
00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:25,400
Speaker 2: maybe I was living right.

203
00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:25,960
Speaker 1: I don't know.

204
00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:29,240
Speaker 2: I don't know what it is. I don't know.

205
00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:35,920
Speaker 3: So actually, that's interesting. So you had, by all accounts,

206
00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:38,920
Speaker 3: instant success at least with getting the show picked up,

207
00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:43,960
Speaker 3: and you said it hasn't been like that after. Has

208
00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:48,280
Speaker 3: that been difficult for you to have like basically almost

209
00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:53,440
Speaker 3: a quick pitch to air scenario and then everything else

210
00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:56,400
Speaker 3: not falling down. Has that been discouraging because it's been

211
00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:58,400
Speaker 3: a long you know, a long time you've been in

212
00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:00,520
Speaker 3: this business. Has it been like, God, oh man, when

213
00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:01,960
Speaker 3: I did basketball, wife, this is easy?

214
00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:03,040
Speaker 2: At first?

215
00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:07,400
Speaker 1: It was I think watching the industry change so much

216
00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:09,240
Speaker 1: from the time I came in, Like I said, you

217
00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:11,719
Speaker 1: didn't need a deck in a pitch really back then,

218
00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:13,439
Speaker 1: they didn't even look for a storyboard.

219
00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:15,199
Speaker 2: It was like, tell us what it is.

220
00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:17,559
Speaker 1: You can go in there verbally give them this pitch,

221
00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:21,760
Speaker 1: and they were just like, okay, you know now it's like.

222
00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:23,520
Speaker 3: That.

223
00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:27,239
Speaker 1: Oh it was no when I tell you no, no paperwork,

224
00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:30,600
Speaker 1: no hey, let's watch this. I did a sizzle, none

225
00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:35,800
Speaker 1: of that. But now, you know, just watching the industry change,

226
00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:40,160
Speaker 1: and I think I go in with no expectations. Now

227
00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:42,320
Speaker 1: it's kind of like, you know, they'll tell you what

228
00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:43,040
Speaker 1: they're looking for.

229
00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:43,880
Speaker 2: I know, you know this.

230
00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:45,640
Speaker 1: They're gonna say, oh, this is what we're looking for.

231
00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:47,480
Speaker 1: You getting a meeting and they're like, that's.

232
00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:49,280
Speaker 2: Not quite what we're.

233
00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:52,520
Speaker 1: Into right now, Like well yesterday you just said, you know,

234
00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:56,160
Speaker 1: I think now I just go in with very low

235
00:11:56,280 --> 00:12:00,360
Speaker 1: expectations in Hollywood of what is working and what's and

236
00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:03,160
Speaker 1: pray for the best because I don't think these folks

237
00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:05,400
Speaker 1: know what they want.

238
00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:08,880
Speaker 3: So you quickly, I mean you did it feel like

239
00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:13,360
Speaker 3: you were like trial by fire figuring out Matthew, you

240
00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:15,839
Speaker 3: were the showrunner of this or did you hire a showrunner?

241
00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:18,440
Speaker 1: No, hired a shower. So I teamed up with a

242
00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:21,600
Speaker 1: production company at the time, it was Shed Media, and

243
00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:25,160
Speaker 1: they hired because Kevin I knew nothing like I was

244
00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:25,920
Speaker 1: a showrunner.

245
00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:26,400
Speaker 2: What is that?

246
00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:26,920
Speaker 3: You know?

247
00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:29,920
Speaker 2: Like, what do you mean? What does he or she do?

248
00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:35,520
Speaker 1: Didn't know anything about television, anything about reality TV. And

249
00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:38,000
Speaker 1: like I said, I did work with Access Hollywood, but

250
00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:40,160
Speaker 1: I had a producer and a cameraman, you know, just

251
00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:42,720
Speaker 1: out on the red carpet. So it was like I

252
00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:45,080
Speaker 1: didn't know the ins and outs. I didn't know the verbiage,

253
00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:48,400
Speaker 1: none of that. So I needed help in that space.

254
00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:52,360
Speaker 1: So I partnered with Shed Media. They did all of that, thankfully,

255
00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:56,400
Speaker 1: and I was learning in real time. I had no

256
00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:58,760
Speaker 1: clue what I was doing. And then in the midst

257
00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:01,880
Speaker 1: of got thrown into the cast, so I became talent too.

258
00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:04,520
Speaker 1: So it was like it was a process. I mean,

259
00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:08,040
Speaker 1: I learned so much over the years, even like I

260
00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:13,920
Speaker 1: couldn't remain really friends and executive producer with cast members.

261
00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:17,120
Speaker 1: That was that was a no no. But it took

262
00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:19,000
Speaker 1: years for me to get that one under country because

263
00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,600
Speaker 1: I was like everybody's family and I love everybody. And

264
00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:24,319
Speaker 1: then it would just turn on me in a heartbeat

265
00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:26,079
Speaker 1: when a storyline went to the left.

266
00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:29,600
Speaker 3: You know what was that like realizing the you know,

267
00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:31,080
Speaker 3: the boss can't be the friend.

268
00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:32,559
Speaker 2: That was tough.

269
00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:34,800
Speaker 1: That was tough because I think I realized it in

270
00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:37,280
Speaker 1: a moment that it was people that I had known

271
00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:40,640
Speaker 1: for years, like prior to the show.

272
00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:45,400
Speaker 2: But everybody can't be in that space. I will say this.

273
00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,480
Speaker 1: You know, Evelyn Lozata is one of the people that

274
00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:52,160
Speaker 1: was able to stay my friend and respect the executive.

275
00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:54,360
Speaker 1: She did not expect me to share with her what

276
00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:57,320
Speaker 1: was going on in other scenes and what was edited

277
00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:01,280
Speaker 1: what wasn't. She didn't have those expectations and respected the space.

278
00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:04,320
Speaker 1: But everybody wasn't able to do that. So when I

279
00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:06,840
Speaker 1: wasn't sharing, it was like what kind of friend are you?

280
00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:10,600
Speaker 1: Or when I have to play it neutral because we're

281
00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:13,960
Speaker 1: doing a TV show, what kind of friend are you?

282
00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:14,120
Speaker 3: You know?

283
00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:16,760
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, I'm an executive producer friend that's trying

284
00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:21,680
Speaker 1: to keep this organization and this franchise going, and I

285
00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:23,680
Speaker 1: gotta just play it dumb right here.

286
00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:26,960
Speaker 2: Yes I know, yes, I know, yes, yeah, I know.

287
00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:29,400
Speaker 1: Some things would I would not know because I purposely

288
00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:33,000
Speaker 1: asked them not to share. But some things I did

289
00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:35,120
Speaker 1: but I couldn't share, And it was hard for a

290
00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:38,800
Speaker 1: lot of people to understand that, which I understand.

291
00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:41,120
Speaker 3: Though, Yeah I get it. Let me ask you this.

292
00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:45,640
Speaker 3: From my point of view, just as a casual observer,

293
00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:50,120
Speaker 3: it seemed like Basketball Wives was a massive hit from

294
00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:57,720
Speaker 3: the first season and a very culturally relevant show that

295
00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:04,960
Speaker 3: created or helped solidifying certain genre of content or show.

296
00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:08,080
Speaker 3: From your point of view, did it feel like a whirlwind,

297
00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:10,960
Speaker 3: a tornado or did it feel more gradual? Because I

298
00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:12,760
Speaker 3: was just like, oh, this is crazy. I remember, like,

299
00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:15,800
Speaker 3: I don't remember the season, but I remember once I

300
00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:18,320
Speaker 3: heard about Blastball Wives, it seemed like everybody was talking

301
00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:20,320
Speaker 3: about it. Yeah when it first aired.

302
00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:24,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I it was a tornado. It really was, because

303
00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:30,600
Speaker 1: I figured it was like, in my mind, we were

304
00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:34,320
Speaker 1: just some friends getting together. We would go to lunch,

305
00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:36,640
Speaker 1: we would gossip, we would have a good girl's time.

306
00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:40,280
Speaker 1: That's what the TV show was, right in my mind.

307
00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:45,920
Speaker 1: And then we start doing this show that fame takes

308
00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:50,240
Speaker 1: over or a lot. Yeah, and they're realizing, Okay, the

309
00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,240
Speaker 1: crazier I act, the more people are talking about me,

310
00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:56,960
Speaker 1: the more fans I have, the more notoriety I have.

311
00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:00,720
Speaker 1: So that started to take over and you are sitting

312
00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,600
Speaker 1: in real time like, hey, y'all, remember we were just

313
00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:06,320
Speaker 1: lunching and shopping and gossiping.

314
00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:08,360
Speaker 2: And having a good time. What is going on here?

315
00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:12,120
Speaker 1: And it so literally you're sitting in this tornado that

316
00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:15,480
Speaker 1: you cannot control. And I was getting blamed for, you know,

317
00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:16,880
Speaker 1: depicting black women in this.

318
00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:21,320
Speaker 2: I'm like, they doing that. I'm not asking to it.

319
00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:22,640
Speaker 2: It's no script.

320
00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:28,240
Speaker 1: Like honestly, y'all are doing that, feeding into the people

321
00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:29,800
Speaker 1: will saying oh we want positive TV.

322
00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:33,760
Speaker 2: No you don't. You really don't, like you don't.

323
00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:35,800
Speaker 1: Because you're clapping for the plate that went across the

324
00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:37,880
Speaker 1: room and you gotta you know, I would have gotten

325
00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:41,479
Speaker 1: so it's like fueling the fire. But it was absolutely

326
00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:45,040
Speaker 1: a tornado that you just sit in and like, what

327
00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:45,920
Speaker 1: is happening here?

328
00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:49,400
Speaker 3: So how did you deal with that feedback? Because you know,

329
00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:54,080
Speaker 3: as the creator, you do get blamed for the negativity,

330
00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:58,720
Speaker 3: whatever harm is depicting black women like this. What was

331
00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:00,840
Speaker 3: it like for you to hear those type of things?

332
00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:04,840
Speaker 3: And you know, also on social media, the show kind

333
00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:07,920
Speaker 3: of premiered. Social media was around, but I don't think

334
00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,040
Speaker 3: it was as prevalent as it is now, where like

335
00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:15,080
Speaker 3: sometimes the show in social media. They both finished the

336
00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:17,800
Speaker 3: flames of each other early two thousand nine, two thousand

337
00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,040
Speaker 3: and ten, we had Facebook, social media, Twitter, but it

338
00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:22,400
Speaker 3: was like early days. I think I created my Twitter

339
00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:25,480
Speaker 3: account in two thousand and nine, so it wasn't say

340
00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:28,880
Speaker 3: as as important as it was in maybe twenty fifteen

341
00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:33,200
Speaker 3: or twenty twenty. How did you How did that feedback

342
00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:36,840
Speaker 3: impact you mentally, you know, because you reading the comments,

343
00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:38,879
Speaker 3: seeing the blogs and things like that.

344
00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:42,280
Speaker 1: No, it was tough, and you're right, Thank god social

345
00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:44,920
Speaker 1: media wasn't like it is now then, because I don't know,

346
00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:46,600
Speaker 1: I don't know how I would have handle it. I

347
00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:49,520
Speaker 1: thought it was hard then, you know, like the little

348
00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:52,040
Speaker 1: bit that we the feedback that we were getting. I

349
00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:56,280
Speaker 1: remember going to Essence Festival and they asked me to

350
00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:58,040
Speaker 1: do a panel and when I tell you, they ate

351
00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:00,040
Speaker 1: me up on a panel like the Black Women, and

352
00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:01,200
Speaker 1: that audience.

353
00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,480
Speaker 2: Was like, why are you even here?

354
00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:04,280
Speaker 3: Hey?

355
00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:06,240
Speaker 2: You know, I mean ate me up.

356
00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:06,720
Speaker 3: I was like.

357
00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:12,359
Speaker 2: Why, like right, It was like it was happening in

358
00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:16,640
Speaker 2: real time, and I was just like I didn't even

359
00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:17,480
Speaker 2: know what to do.

360
00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:21,080
Speaker 1: I couldn't what I wanted to leave, like Essence completely,

361
00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:22,680
Speaker 1: like get me out of New Orleans and I'm never

362
00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:27,960
Speaker 1: coming back. It was horrible, but I understood, But at

363
00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:31,040
Speaker 1: the same time, I was like I don't know.

364
00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:33,119
Speaker 2: I went back to the network. I remember going back

365
00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:34,200
Speaker 2: to the network and just.

366
00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:40,560
Speaker 1: Begging them to please do something to help me reduce

367
00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:44,040
Speaker 1: the amount of craziness. It's going like put in some

368
00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:46,760
Speaker 1: rules in these contracts, do something, and they're just like,

369
00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:52,639
Speaker 1: you know, it's doing great, Like the numbers are great,

370
00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:55,239
Speaker 1: and the ladies they seem to be fine with it.

371
00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:57,080
Speaker 1: You're the only one that has a problem. They don't

372
00:18:57,119 --> 00:18:59,640
Speaker 1: have a problem. Yeah, we don't want to do that.

373
00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:04,520
Speaker 1: Oh nothing I could do, but it was it was

374
00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:08,879
Speaker 1: weighing heavy on me. And luckily so I have my

375
00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:13,840
Speaker 1: father was very Muslim, right, so very very pro black folks,

376
00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:18,840
Speaker 1: and he was like, you know, this is not on you.

377
00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:22,560
Speaker 1: You gave people a platform and there's so many things

378
00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:25,160
Speaker 1: you're doing wonderful, Like it's so many people getting paid,

379
00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:27,959
Speaker 1: so many people having opportunities. And he was like, you know,

380
00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:30,760
Speaker 1: if folks want to act the food, that's not on you.

381
00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:33,280
Speaker 1: You're just gonna have to build up that thick skin

382
00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:35,439
Speaker 1: to deal with the people that are gonna say something,

383
00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:37,120
Speaker 1: cause somebody would switch places with you.

384
00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:37,680
Speaker 2: In a heartbeat.

385
00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:42,200
Speaker 1: And eventually it took years. That's where I am, I think, right,

386
00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:45,040
Speaker 1: now it's real hard to hurt my feelings these days.

387
00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:50,960
Speaker 3: That's so interesting. Tyra Banks mentioned something like that in

388
00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:56,119
Speaker 3: America's Next Top Model documentary. She was talking about how

389
00:19:56,280 --> 00:20:00,879
Speaker 3: the audience fanned the flames of the show. You know,

390
00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:02,560
Speaker 3: you felt like you had to go bigger and better

391
00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:07,600
Speaker 3: or crazier. I think I fell victim to that. I've

392
00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:09,560
Speaker 3: spoken about this publicly. When I worked out all depth.

393
00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:12,960
Speaker 3: You know, we were trying so hard to get numbers,

394
00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:17,960
Speaker 3: you know, views, whatever hit we you know, we we

395
00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:21,560
Speaker 3: we fed that, you know, and when your job's on

396
00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:25,400
Speaker 3: the line, at least for me, sometimes your morals get

397
00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:27,680
Speaker 3: it gets a little blurry, right because I'm like, man,

398
00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:30,560
Speaker 3: I don't really personally feel this, but like my kids

399
00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:34,440
Speaker 3: are hungry today, And at that time in La, my

400
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:38,400
Speaker 3: moral compass and my bank account were in the eternal

401
00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:40,880
Speaker 3: tug of war. And eventually there were some stuff where

402
00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:42,479
Speaker 3: I was just like, man, I just can't live with this.

403
00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:46,080
Speaker 3: But was that? Was it like your vision for the

404
00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:49,120
Speaker 3: show and then what the show became were like incongruent

405
00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:51,480
Speaker 3: with each other. You're just like, hold on, y'all, I said,

406
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:53,920
Speaker 3: shopping your lunch, this is the same.

407
00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:56,960
Speaker 1: It is not that but at the same time, am

408
00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:00,800
Speaker 1: I supposed to just walk away and let somebody else

409
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:04,359
Speaker 1: because they were it was gonna keep going. Whether I said,

410
00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:08,560
Speaker 1: you know what, I don't stand for this and I'm leaving,

411
00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,600
Speaker 1: they still collected the check off of my what I created.

412
00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:13,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, I couldn't sleep with that one either.

413
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:17,600
Speaker 1: So it was like I had to own my part

414
00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:21,879
Speaker 1: and I did my best to conduct myself with dignity

415
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:27,400
Speaker 1: where I didn't embarrass my family, my friends. I did

416
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:33,000
Speaker 1: my best behind the camera to tug on some you know, coattails.

417
00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:35,480
Speaker 1: I'm like, hey, Evelyn could tell you to this day

418
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:37,840
Speaker 1: every time she acted the food, I was like, yep,

419
00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:40,439
Speaker 1: you just you just went to the left and you

420
00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:42,800
Speaker 1: know they gonna air that on TV and you just

421
00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:44,440
Speaker 1: embarrassed your daughter.

422
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:45,439
Speaker 2: She's gonna be hot.

423
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:49,320
Speaker 1: And yeah, I was tripping, you know, like we would

424
00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:51,679
Speaker 1: own it, or some of us would own it for

425
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:52,240
Speaker 1: real time.

426
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:57,720
Speaker 2: But I just had to this is what I did, right.

427
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:00,240
Speaker 3: I want to take a quick break from this show

428
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:17,919
Speaker 3: to hear from our ad sponsors. What does it feel

429
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,480
Speaker 3: like to know there's still people who are famous and

430
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:26,840
Speaker 3: working solely because they were on Basketball Wives. You introduced

431
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:33,399
Speaker 3: so many people talent into the cultural zeit. Guys, do

432
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,199
Speaker 3: you ever be like, I'm out here big Shawnee, not

433
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:37,000
Speaker 3: the little.

434
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:38,680
Speaker 2: No, I don't.

435
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:44,159
Speaker 1: I'm like to me, I can look at those people

436
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:47,199
Speaker 1: and say, that's what this was for, That's what this

437
00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:49,320
Speaker 1: was really about, you know what I mean? Like, I

438
00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 1: think us as wives at the time, we didn't really

439
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:56,359
Speaker 1: have voices, and it wasn't It was like the world

440
00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,040
Speaker 1: kind of drowned us out a little bit, not intentionally.

441
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:03,119
Speaker 1: I think we sometimes sat back not even realizing that

442
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:06,440
Speaker 1: we were kind of just there. We were just the wife,

443
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:08,600
Speaker 1: the mom, but we didn't really have voices. We didn't

444
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:12,520
Speaker 1: really have a thing. But we had desires, goals, passions,

445
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,800
Speaker 1: things that we enjoyed doing. But life was just lifing

446
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:18,159
Speaker 1: around us where we didn't get to those things. So

447
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:22,120
Speaker 1: I think Basketball Wives gave that opportunity for a lot

448
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,840
Speaker 1: of us to be like, hey, I gotta you know,

449
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:26,720
Speaker 1: I got an idea, I got a business I want

450
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,080
Speaker 1: to do, I got I want to pursue this specific career,

451
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,680
Speaker 1: and Basketball Wives is giving me that platform to do it.

452
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 1: So now seeing those women and some men who have

453
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,440
Speaker 1: gone on to other productions and things like that and

454
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:46,440
Speaker 1: just gone up the ladder big time. It's a proud moment.

455
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,200
Speaker 2: Of just like, I'm so glad that we did this

456
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:50,440
Speaker 2: because you know, look at.

457
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 3: You now, Yeah, I mean and listen. It aired for

458
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:59,679
Speaker 3: twelve seasons over fifteen years. Anybody in any level of

459
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:05,920
Speaker 3: innerment knows five seasons is a lot, Ten is almost

460
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:11,440
Speaker 3: unheard of. Twelve is like not that many shows have

461
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 3: twelve seasons, twelve cycles of anything. And you let it go? Yeah,

462
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:21,960
Speaker 3: you you decided to sunset it? What made you be

463
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 3: like I got to move on from from this?

464
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 2: It was a few things I think.

465
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 1: I think where TV is going, I don't know how

466
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:41,639
Speaker 1: much longer we would have survived anyway. And I also

467
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,359
Speaker 1: think some of us have been on this show since

468
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,399
Speaker 1: we were in our thirties and are now in our fifties

469
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:53,399
Speaker 1: and have no connection to basketball with so whatever, you

470
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:57,199
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like some of us have none,

471
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,359
Speaker 1: Like it's not got kids to still play basketball, you know,

472
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 1: or whatever.

473
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 2: But I just it just didn't make sense for it

474
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 2: for some things.

475
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:09,719
Speaker 1: And I think even our last season, I was I

476
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 1: was probably the most uncomfortable I've ever been with the

477
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,400
Speaker 1: very last season of our show, and it didn't sit

478
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 1: right with me, and I think during our break when

479
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:23,719
Speaker 1: we finished the last season, it was like this lull

480
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 1: of what do we do? Like, what's next? How do

481
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:30,359
Speaker 1: we come back from this? Just sitting in that space,

482
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 1: I was like, I think we should just stop. I

483
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,399
Speaker 1: think we should end it right here, because A, I

484
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 1: know how to come back from that. B. We've outgrown

485
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:42,920
Speaker 1: a lot of us have outgrown it. And these new

486
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 1: girls you thought we was throwing plates. The new girls,

487
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,439
Speaker 1: they don't care. And I'm like, well, wait a minute,

488
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 1: I'm just I can't get worse.

489
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:54,879
Speaker 3: I can't.

490
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 2: You know, it can't get any worse than Essence Festival. Okay, so.

491
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 1: Let's just let's just hang this up now while you

492
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 1: know we're doing. Okay, we're doing. Like I said, I

493
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 1: wasn't proud, but nobody died?

494
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,639
Speaker 3: Right did you die? Though? So? What was it like?

495
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 3: You know, fifteen years of producing TV, you begin at

496
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 3: the tell end of a marriage. Where are you at

497
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 3: in life when you are ending basketball wives?

498
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 2: In life?

499
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,879
Speaker 1: I think I am definitely in a brand new space,

500
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:40,879
Speaker 1: some more calm, intentional, very intentional space in life.

501
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:43,919
Speaker 2: You know, now that I'm remarried and first lady of

502
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 2: a church, it just.

503
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 1: My my I don't know. My goals and aspirations are

504
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:53,119
Speaker 1: just different. I want to be I want to intentionally

505
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,159
Speaker 1: have peace with what I do and what I'm a

506
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 1: part of.

507
00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:58,880
Speaker 2: And I'm not.

508
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 1: Saying that everything is going and be faith based. That's

509
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:02,879
Speaker 1: not what I'm saying at all. I just want to

510
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 1: have a bit more, a bit more. I want to

511
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 1: be more comfortable with what I'm attached to. I want

512
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 1: to be more.

513
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 2: I guess just settled.

514
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,400
Speaker 1: And I'm in a space where I can sit back

515
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 1: and you know when they say sleep on things, and

516
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 1: I can really mean it, like let me sleep. Yeah,

517
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,679
Speaker 1: I feel and not in a desperation mode and know

518
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 1: that I'm still okay regardless, right if I don't, you know. So, yeah,

519
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,920
Speaker 1: I guess it's just a more intentional grown up space.

520
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 3: So what about tell me about the transition from end

521
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:41,160
Speaker 3: of a marriage, start of a new career to single

522
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 3: beginning of a new career, to remarried end of a career.

523
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,440
Speaker 3: Like you've got these like this one thing is sunsetting

524
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:51,719
Speaker 3: and beginning, and at the same time this other thing

525
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 3: is coming. Like you, it doesn't seem like over the

526
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:59,159
Speaker 3: last fifteen years you've had any plateau. You're starting and

527
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 3: ending something huge in your life. How did you navigate

528
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 3: that process? Because that's that's a huge thing.

529
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:11,159
Speaker 1: I never ever thought of it like that till right now.

530
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 1: That is nuts, isn't it.

531
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 2: That's so true?

532
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 1: Gosh, I don't know now that you say that, I

533
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,639
Speaker 1: really have to say, like, you're right, I would be like,

534
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 1: that's crazy.

535
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,399
Speaker 2: I don't even know how to answer that question, because.

536
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 3: I do you just deal well in and I don't

537
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,080
Speaker 3: mean chaos in this like my life's chaos, but do

538
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 3: you just deal well? It seems like you have to

539
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 3: be a person that can manage change well because, like

540
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 3: as a human being, the end of a marriage, regardless

541
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 3: of how or why, is a detrimental thing just by itself.

542
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 3: And then starting a new TV show, even if you

543
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 3: were experienced, is a whole new thing. You basically started

544
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 3: a brand new job that you had to learn on

545
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 3: the job, and then people are giving you real time

546
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 3: feedback at essence Fest and you know, like, that's not

547
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 3: The entertainment is very unique in that way, and most jobs,

548
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 3: if you are succeeding, are failing. It's only the people

549
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 3: who work at your job. There's nobody in the shade room,

550
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 3: like you know, Shane over an accounting, that's her third

551
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 3: proposal that she's had some of them, her excel sheets

552
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 3: ain't been out enough, Like there's no broadcasts of that.

553
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 3: But like you know, in the public eye, you're judged

554
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 3: for everything. And some of the things you know are

555
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 3: not your fault and not your intentions. Some of them are.

556
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 3: It's a whole thing. And you'd been in the public

557
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 3: eye before, but now you are like I of the

558
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 3: hurricane public eye, Like, oh no, it's you, Shannie. You

559
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 3: created the show. You made them people do that. Like

560
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,959
Speaker 3: if you're not used to that, that's a that's a

561
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 3: burden to carry.

562
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 2: No, it absolutely is, And like I said, it was

563
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 2: super tough. It is still tough to hear.

564
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 1: I think I've just become so used to it and

565
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 1: know that it's not I know that I I know

566
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 1: what I did, and I sleep well, and I knowing

567
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 1: that I've never asked anybody to do anything crazy ever,

568
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 1: and never would. That's just not who I am. But

569
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 1: I guess I do deal well with change. I do

570
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 1: enjoy being uncomfortable because I think that that's where my

571
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 1: best and most creative ideas come from.

572
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 2: But at the same time also.

573
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 1: Like you know the plateau every now man Shuttle, I

574
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 1: need things to be okay. But yeah, I'm quick on

575
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 1: my feet. Let's just say I'm pretty quick on my feet.

576
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 1: And I don't know, I don't know where that came from.

577
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 1: I just feel like, you know, as I get older,

578
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 1: as I've grown, and things just hit me life just

579
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 1: like I'm like, Okay, what's next?

580
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 2: What we gotta do to get through this one?

581
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 3: You know, right? Do you feel I think that's super interesting?

582
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 3: Do you feel a lot of creators often do I'm

583
00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 3: curious if you feel the same. Do you feel the okay?

584
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 3: Actually want to ask two questions. Okay, you created Basketball

585
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 3: Wives in a time where you like had to it

586
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 3: had to work. Do you feel that same back against

587
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 3: the wall part of your life because you're not, like

588
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 3: does the next project might not have that same it

589
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 3: has to work feeling from you. That's the first part

590
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 3: I want to ask.

591
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 2: Do I feel like that in everything.

592
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 3: With your back's against the wall now like it is?

593
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 3: Or do you feel like that helped you have a

594
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 3: certain amount of gumption to make sure that this show worked.

595
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 3: That maybe if your life's not so stressed it might

596
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 3: be different that you might not have the same like

597
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 3: I gotta make it happen. Like when I first moved

598
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 3: to La I was like, I ain't going back. I

599
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 3: ain't going back to Bowing. I ain't going back to Washington.

600
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 3: Somebody renting my house. I can't risk it right now.

601
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 3: I don't have that same you know, back against the wall,

602
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 3: I got a little money saved, I got a little

603
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 3: contingency plan. Do you feel like you can create more

604
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 3: out of pure creativity and less out of like need inspiration.

605
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, Yeah, great, that's a great.

606
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 1: Feeling to But at the same time, you know what

607
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 1: I do to myself that I realized, I think it

608
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 1: just this conversation. I put the pressure on myself when

609
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 1: I do choose a project, I will make it back

610
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 1: against the walls, like, oh.

611
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 2: This has to be successful, work, it has to.

612
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 1: I'll put it on myself when it Honestly, if it doesn't,

613
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 1: I'm disappointed, But it ain't go make break me like

614
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 1: basketball wives.

615
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 2: Would have, like I would have been. So yeah, I.

616
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 1: Put that kind of pressure on myself because I think

617
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 1: that just drives me, That makes me a bit more creative,

618
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 1: that makes me think out of the box a bit

619
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 1: more when I put that pressure on myself, for sure.

620
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 3: So would you say that you outgrew that version of

621
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 3: Shannie that was necessary in two thousand and nine.

622
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 2: Hmm, absolutely absolutely.

623
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 1: I think the version of me in two thousand and

624
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 1: nine was probably not thinking things out as thoroughly as

625
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 1: I should have out of pure desperation mode. Like I

626
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 1: was in desperation mode so much that it's pieces of

627
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 1: that part of my life that I wish I could

628
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 1: kind of redo or do better, you know, as we

629
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 1: probably all do. But I've definitely outgrown just based on

630
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 1: experience alone. Now, what I do think is that I

631
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 1: had to do. I had to go through those exact

632
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 1: things to develop into the person I am today.

633
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, it had so interesting. I remember, I don't

634
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 3: you might not remember that this, and this is okay.

635
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 3: I hate putting people on the spot like this, but

636
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 3: I remember walking past you in La Live one time

637
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 3: closer to two thousand and nine than we are here,

638
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,240
Speaker 3: probably twenty fourteen, and I remember I was like, first

639
00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 3: of all, Shawnee's taller than she looks on to you,

640
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 3: and you just walked with like I was like, dang,

641
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 3: she is a boss like you was just your heels

642
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:11,240
Speaker 3: was like click click, and you didn't look mean or nothing.

643
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 3: You was just you had such a like confidence about you.

644
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 3: I was like, dang, Shanni is a boss. She's just

645
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,279
Speaker 3: like she seemed like I see why she created that show.

646
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,920
Speaker 3: Do you feel like as you fell into yourself that

647
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 3: your back kind of stiffened up because you talked about

648
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 3: like any of your marriage, you ain't nowhere your next

649
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:31,839
Speaker 3: you know, money was gonna come from who you were

650
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 3: gonna be. But when I saw you about twenty fourteen,

651
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,240
Speaker 3: you look like you could. You look like you could

652
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 3: take over Hollywood, like maybe some of those stripes kind

653
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 3: of you know, tense your back up a little bit

654
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:48,359
Speaker 3: because you was like I was like, dang, you had

655
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 3: a lot of car, like you could just fly if

656
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 3: you wanted to. Your back was still up so straight.

657
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 3: I was like, dang, she she's cool.

658
00:34:55,040 --> 00:35:00,200
Speaker 1: Guys, I don't know if that was real, cap I

659
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:00,800
Speaker 1: really don't.

660
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 2: I don't know that. I don't know. I don't I

661
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:06,440
Speaker 2: don't think I was that confident then.

662
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 4: Really, I do know that I masked, I mastered, masking,

663
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 4: mastered it, Like really, oh yeah.

664
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 2: I'm masked.

665
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,400
Speaker 1: I can if I needed to mask right now, I could,

666
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 1: you would never know I have mastered masking. And I

667
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 1: think that was just from my previous marriage, not the

668
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:35,439
Speaker 1: marriage itself, but just life during that time. I had

669
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:37,840
Speaker 1: so much that I wanted to do, and I was

670
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 1: a mom of five, and I just kind of but

671
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 1: I never wanted anybody to know I was breaking on

672
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:47,359
Speaker 1: the inside, you know, or like so unhappy on the

673
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 1: inside that I showed up to every game smiling, you know,

674
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:56,720
Speaker 1: everything shining. The kids was clean, and everything the house

675
00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 1: we go cook me everything's literally on the inside into pieces.

676
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 1: I had mastered that. So I think even in that

677
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 1: twenty fourteen fifteen, although the money was there, the divorce

678
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 1: was over, I'm still raising five kids who are still young,

679
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:19,360
Speaker 1: then trying to be on a show, hearing the noise

680
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 1: of being the person that's destroying the entire race of

681
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:30,320
Speaker 1: black women across the world, and just for the first

682
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 1: time as a real grown woman running my entire household bills,

683
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:38,720
Speaker 1: like you just understanding that this is the first time

684
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 1: I'm paying my own bills and like structuring what budgets

685
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 1: looks like, figuring life out as an adult, and right

686
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:53,840
Speaker 1: right now, so when you saw me walking I'm sure

687
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 1: I was not the person that I appeared to be

688
00:36:58,040 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 1: on the end.

689
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 3: That is so interesting to me. I think that I'm

690
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 3: sure a lot of people listening or watching can relate

691
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 3: to that. You Sometimes, you know, especially as black people

692
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:13,400
Speaker 3: in America, you just gotta grin and bear it. You know,

693
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 3: you gotta figure a way through that day. That meaning

694
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 3: that microaggression whatever, I think something you said is really interesting.

695
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 3: You became an adult much later in life, a solo adult.

696
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:37,279
Speaker 3: Do you forgive your your younger self for being I

697
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:41,440
Speaker 3: don't mean this disrespectfully, but like naive and thinking or

698
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 3: do you just feel like I was married, I thought

699
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 3: I was gonna stay married, Like I didn't know. I

700
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 3: didn't I was all in, why would I think this

701
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:51,240
Speaker 3: isn't gonna work? Like how do you judge your younger self?

702
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:55,400
Speaker 1: I absolutely, I mean it's half and half because sometimes

703
00:37:55,400 --> 00:38:01,239
Speaker 1: I'm like, thank you were so stupid, Like I was, like,

704
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 1: you know, and then I thought saving for a rainy

705
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:06,240
Speaker 1: day was like betraying your husband.

706
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 3: A lot a lot of people feel like That's why

707
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 3: I brought it up. A lot of people feel like

708
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:11,799
Speaker 3: if you even think like that, you need all the

709
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:12,760
Speaker 3: way in your marriage.

710
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:17,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm like, I'm like manifesting like sneakyness or something like.

711
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:22,360
Speaker 1: I'm so that's how I thought. And then I'm a

712
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 1: product of two people that stayed married till death do

713
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:30,280
Speaker 1: us part. So it's like I didn't have any reason

714
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 1: to think that this wasn't going to be my life

715
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:33,240
Speaker 1: for the rest of my life.

716
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 2: So why why do I need to Why do I

717
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:39,839
Speaker 2: need to save? Why do I need to I got

718
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,359
Speaker 2: plenty of time to have a career later on.

719
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:44,400
Speaker 1: Let the kids get bigger. I't raised the kids, no

720
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:48,880
Speaker 1: big deal, just totally naive. So yes, I do forgive

721
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 1: my younger self, but it's a part of me some

722
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 1: days to be like, girl, you was ripping, and I

723
00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 1: had nobody in my life that was telling me, you know,

724
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 1: like right, it was nobody in my world that lived

725
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:08,720
Speaker 1: this life to know they like, girl, shush, everything's good,

726
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 1: be quiet since still and live you know.

727
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:15,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I get that. I get that, And I think

728
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:21,399
Speaker 3: you know, your parents' marriage, regardless of how it turns out,

729
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:23,879
Speaker 3: has a huge impact on how you see marriage. If

730
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 3: they had a rocky relationship, you're either going to be like, oh,

731
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:28,320
Speaker 3: this is how things are, or I'm not going to

732
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 3: be like that if they were married till death through

733
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 3: your part, then you, like, I anticipate, My wife says

734
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 3: all the time, like her parents' divorce when we were

735
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 3: less than five years married, had a tremendous impact. She

736
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:41,319
Speaker 3: was like, they supposed to be married forever. If they

737
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:45,200
Speaker 3: get divorced and they both saved, then it's only a

738
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 3: matter of time for us. Like, and my mom was remarried,

739
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,920
Speaker 3: so I you know, I was blessed with my stepfather

740
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:54,279
Speaker 3: who taught me how to be a man. But we

741
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,920
Speaker 3: both are seeing the world through the world as it

742
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 3: was presented to us, you know, and kind of make

743
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:03,319
Speaker 3: an adjustment. Hey, guys, taking a quick commercial break. We'll

744
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 3: be right back. I want to touch on this before

745
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 3: we have to let you go. This forty minutes so far,

746
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 3: buy really quick. You went from a very famous relationship

747
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 3: to becoming a very famous person on your own and

748
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:35,359
Speaker 3: then the pastor you married in our community, you are

749
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:39,840
Speaker 3: now a famous person in another relationship. Were you like,

750
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 3: Oh my god, because Keyan Henderson, he's one of them

751
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 3: pastors that is very well known in the Black church community.

752
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 3: Has gone viral for good and bad, unintentional and intentional

753
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 3: I like Kiyon, you know, but anybody of visibility, when

754
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 3: you get that visible, you're gonna step on some tones.

755
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:06,239
Speaker 3: It's impossible. Were you like, oh my god, here I

756
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 3: am again, And did you find the Black Church? Because

757
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 3: we got stuff to say too. We Essence again. We're

758
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:14,239
Speaker 3: gonna be at Essence as well, and we're gonna go out.

759
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 2: They might be truered in essence, Okay.

760
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:21,800
Speaker 1: I honestly like when I met Kean, I didn't feel

761
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 1: like the world knew who he was the way it

762
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:27,719
Speaker 1: is now now I'm like, okay, what's up?

763
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:30,359
Speaker 2: Maybe because I wasn't in church like that that I.

764
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 1: Was like, don't nobody know like that?

765
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 3: That's hilarious.

766
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:40,319
Speaker 1: Then I got over here like oh no, this is

767
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:44,439
Speaker 1: too much, and they'm when I tell you, they worse

768
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 1: than Essence.

769
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 3: Really, I don't, I don't. I don't doubt that at all.

770
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 1: Listen, the other day I posted something about how I

771
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:56,760
Speaker 1: love people, and I do, but I don't like everybody

772
00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 1: right right?

773
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:05,240
Speaker 2: That is not biblical, ma'am. I don't recall ever saying

774
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:07,400
Speaker 2: it was. This don't have none to do with the Bible.

775
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:10,280
Speaker 2: I am not the pastor. Yes, I am the pastor's wife.

776
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 4: Right.

777
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:13,799
Speaker 2: I did not come on here and say I had

778
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:16,680
Speaker 2: a sermon or a word for you. This is my

779
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 2: personal thoughts. Nobody said nothing about the Bible. But that's

780
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:26,400
Speaker 2: just every everything so holy and so spiritual, and everything

781
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:30,400
Speaker 2: is not. So it's just like, where's the balance.

782
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 1: That's what I'm and I'm no person to come into

783
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:35,759
Speaker 1: the church and start this new thing. But at the

784
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:40,520
Speaker 1: same time, I'm like, we as Christians should be able

785
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:44,320
Speaker 1: to ask questions, and we should be able to voice

786
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:48,719
Speaker 1: real life situations and real life feelings and even talk

787
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 1: about them and challenge them, like we're all just trying

788
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 1: to be better every day.

789
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:56,880
Speaker 2: It's no script. They got a script, yeah, you know

790
00:42:56,920 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 2: what I mean. And it's just like that's.

791
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 1: Intimidating, Like you run people off by thinking that there

792
00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 1: is a script you gotta follow to believe in God,

793
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 1: to be a Christian, to be in this religious space.

794
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 1: There's this script that somebody wrote and if you don't

795
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 1: follow it, then you ate one Like that's crazy, that's crazy.

796
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 3: So how do you even how do you even? I'm

797
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 3: sorry you said you feel like a rebel.

798
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:27,040
Speaker 1: I'm gonna just be quiet because they're gonna be mad

799
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:27,279
Speaker 1: at me.

800
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 3: So how do you How do you even navigate? How

801
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 3: do you even navigate this? Because you you is the

802
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:40,240
Speaker 3: first lady, I am, no matter what, and people first lady,

803
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:46,800
Speaker 3: just like the p K. There are expectations and scripts

804
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 3: placed on you that you did not sign up for.

805
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 3: All you did is fall in love with a man

806
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 3: who's a pastor. You didn't you It's not like you

807
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:57,319
Speaker 3: were grouped. Some first ladies are groomed in the church

808
00:43:57,360 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 3: and they are prepared and they know what it takes

809
00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 3: or they know what it's going to be like. It

810
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:05,319
Speaker 3: seems like you weren't as aware of like what it

811
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:07,080
Speaker 3: was going to be like. You just like, man, this

812
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 3: is all right with me.

813
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:10,239
Speaker 2: Listen, that's my guy.

814
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:11,120
Speaker 3: Yeah.

815
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:12,279
Speaker 2: I grew up.

816
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:14,279
Speaker 1: I did grow even though my father was Muslim, we

817
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:16,319
Speaker 1: grew up in church. My mother is very Christian. She

818
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 1: was the pianist at our church.

819
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:21,440
Speaker 2: We grew up. I knew what church was now, I

820
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 2: knew the rules all that. But to sit in this seat,

821
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:29,120
Speaker 2: it's real, real, real different.

822
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:30,319
Speaker 5: You know you.

823
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 1: Imagine I don't I think you know. I love my church.

824
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 1: My church loves me. We rock together, they get me.

825
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:41,560
Speaker 1: I think I'm more of the rebel when it comes

826
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 1: to the wives group. Like wives, I'm a bit of

827
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:55,799
Speaker 1: a rebel in that space. Yeah, but I just it's

828
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:59,800
Speaker 1: it's a different space a little bit. But to be honest,

829
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 1: it was a panel I was on with some other

830
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:06,200
Speaker 1: first ladies and I guess they were other women pastors

831
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:09,160
Speaker 1: and I am not, but I was on this panel

832
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:11,439
Speaker 1: and they kind of this was when I was new too,

833
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:13,719
Speaker 1: so they kind of set me up a little bit

834
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:16,600
Speaker 1: and tried to get on me low key about basketball.

835
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:19,760
Speaker 2: It's a little bit of shade, right.

836
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:22,720
Speaker 5: You know, and you just it's just ungodly and the ladies.

837
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:25,319
Speaker 5: What do you think about the ladies, you know, doing

838
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:28,319
Speaker 5: what they do? And you just it was a pastor's wife,

839
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 5: and I said, well, here's the thing. What I've noticed

840
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 5: is coming around these circles, it's very similar, like it

841
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 5: honestly is very similar. The difference is those ladies get

842
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 5: a check for acting the fool and these ladies are

843
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:46,880
Speaker 5: doing it for free.

844
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:50,240
Speaker 3: And Seanna, you did not say that on the panel.

845
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:52,239
Speaker 2: I did and never got invited back.

846
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 1: You said I did, because it was it was like

847
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:01,839
Speaker 1: in the midst of that twenty four hours hour was there.

848
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:04,560
Speaker 2: It was so many mean girls around like, I'm.

849
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:09,280
Speaker 6: Like, ain't jo supposed to be what? Like everybody's supposed

850
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:13,720
Speaker 6: to be nice and hug like that's what we're supposed

851
00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:17,440
Speaker 6: to be doing. It was the mean girl experience was real.

852
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 6: And I'm not saying that everybody.

853
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:23,799
Speaker 1: I've met some amazing sure ladies and women in this

854
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 1: space that pastor and I mean amazing, but there are

855
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 1: some mean girls that could absolutely have a show.

856
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 3: And let me tell you what, Shannie, I would tune in.

857
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 3: I'm have a podcast to review passes. I watched Preachers

858
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 3: of La. I was like, finally we got our turn.

859
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:45,279
Speaker 3: I watched the when Kiera sheared them had a TV show,

860
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:47,799
Speaker 3: The Clarks. I was watching that with JD. Drew said

861
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:49,880
Speaker 3: Hall and they was like, you ain't gonna cust my house.

862
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:53,120
Speaker 3: I was like, finally the type of drop of that

863
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:55,439
Speaker 3: is right up my alley. Listen.

864
00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:57,799
Speaker 1: You people are human, you know what I mean, Like

865
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 1: there is a balance everybody is. These are human beings

866
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:04,680
Speaker 1: that are chosen by God to speak a word. But

867
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 1: they're not perfect and they should not be expected to

868
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:10,640
Speaker 1: be perfect. But the world just wants to put them

869
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:13,439
Speaker 1: on this pedestal and they can't live.

870
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 2: And then when they do live. It's like, you know,

871
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 2: it's just I wish people would understand they're human.

872
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 3: I love that. I love that so so so much.

873
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:25,480
Speaker 3: This is why I be a comedian. I let the

874
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 3: pastor through the pastor, and because y'all not finna make

875
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:30,759
Speaker 3: my life living hell, I let the pastors not have

876
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 3: no fun. They can't talk about nothing publicly. They can't

877
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:35,720
Speaker 3: watch no TV. They can't they can't watch no stuff.

878
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:38,880
Speaker 3: They can't no music, they can't listen to no music.

879
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 3: Y'all can watch power. They can't watch power. They got

880
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:45,760
Speaker 3: to worry about wonder work in power. I'm curious, now,

881
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 3: what do you know? You always got something you're working on.

882
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 3: What does the future, the immediate future, long term future like,

883
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:56,320
Speaker 3: if the things went your way over the next five years,

884
00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:57,319
Speaker 3: what would that look like.

885
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:00,680
Speaker 2: I still want to stay in this space.

886
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 1: I do have projects that are currently being pitched that

887
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:08,399
Speaker 1: are non faith based, reality a scripted. I would love

888
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:12,080
Speaker 1: to get a little bit more into the scripted space

889
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 1: than reality. I know reality comes natural, and it's to

890
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 1: me on the easy side. I'm always good with a

891
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:23,080
Speaker 1: good easy but to challenge myself and do do some

892
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 1: more scripted stuff.

893
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 2: So I have some of that on the table right now.

894
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 3: I love that so much. Ladies and gentlemen, Shannie Henderson,

895
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 3: I have had a great time with you. Before we

896
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:38,239
Speaker 3: let you go, let the people know whether they can

897
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:41,759
Speaker 3: where they can find you, anything that you want to

898
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:43,880
Speaker 3: direct them to please the Florish yours.

899
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:47,080
Speaker 1: Well, my husband and I have a tour called the

900
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:50,759
Speaker 1: NYT Tour, and it is a little bit of where

901
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:53,040
Speaker 1: culture and faith balance each other.

902
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:55,360
Speaker 2: Right, So you get a little bit of me talking

903
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:56,560
Speaker 2: about what I just talked.

904
00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:58,960
Speaker 1: About with you in life, and then you'll get my

905
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:02,400
Speaker 1: husband with a coming through with a word. Our music

906
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:05,040
Speaker 1: ministry comes and turns it out. So we're going from.

907
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 2: City to city.

908
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:09,440
Speaker 1: I think we were in Houston for the Rodeo next month,

909
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:13,279
Speaker 1: and then we are New York Chicago. So check out

910
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:16,680
Speaker 1: not your typical tour dot org and come to a

911
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:20,000
Speaker 1: city near us, and of course Instagram, I am Shawnee.

912
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:23,319
Speaker 1: Come talk to me, chat with me. I probably say

913
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:25,480
Speaker 1: some crazy stuff. Thank you so much for having me.

914
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:29,960
Speaker 3: Really, of course, this was great. Ladies, gentlemen Shawnie Henderson

915
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 3: please follow her. Thank you so much, and we will

916
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:36,319
Speaker 3: see you guys next week on Real Preachers wives of

917
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 3: LA Basketball Church. All right, guys, we'll see you next week.

918
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:55,759
Speaker 3: This has been a Unanimous Media original. Not My Best

919
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:58,840
Speaker 3: Mama was produced by iHeart podcast and Unanimous Media. It

920
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:02,920
Speaker 3: was hosted by me Fredericks. Executive produced by Stephen Curry,

921
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:07,280
Speaker 3: Eric Payton and Charlotte Sumter Vigette. Co executive producer Kelenna

922
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:11,000
Speaker 3: Maria Cutney. The executive producers of the iHeart Podcasts are

923
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 3: Sean Titne and Jason English. This series was produced by

924
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 3: Peter Calter and Jabbari Davis. Co producer Kurt Redmand Special

925
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:20,600
Speaker 3: thanks to Stephen Curry and Will Pearson. Not My Best

926
00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:23,200
Speaker 3: Moment as a production of Unanimous Media and iHeart Podcasts.

927
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 3: For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,

928
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:28,719
Speaker 3: Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.