WEBVTT - Wildfires with Glynis Humphrey 0:00:00.520 --> 0:00:03.320 We're heading into a warming phase if governance doesn't take 0:00:03.320 --> 0:00:05.720 a niece into the fact that the burning of fossil 0:00:05.720 --> 0:00:09.039 fuels are increasing the surface of the earth and the 0:00:09.080 --> 0:00:11.080 temperature on the surface of the earth, and that's been 0:00:11.200 --> 0:00:15.480 trapped and this envelope that surrounds that surrounds us, that 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:18.560 is causing a heating up of the earth. The fire 0:00:19.720 --> 0:00:22.680 fire is responding to that heating of the globe, and 0:00:22.720 --> 0:00:26.200 that's really important to be aware of. And if we 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:31.800 don't halt our activities on the ground and really change that, 0:00:32.200 --> 0:00:35.040 we are going to head into a catastrophic zone. 0:00:35.479 --> 0:00:38.080 Ah fucked. 0:00:41.920 --> 0:00:46.400 Welcome to I'm Fucking the Future. I'm your host, Chris Turney. 0:00:47.159 --> 0:00:50.160 I've been studying the climate for close to thirty years now. 0:00:50.520 --> 0:00:54.480 In most professions, after thirty years, you might say I've 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:58.040 seen it all. But in the climate crisis, there's always 0:00:58.120 --> 0:01:02.320 something new. The headlines make everything feel pretty scary, and 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:05.040 that's because in a lot of ways it is pretty scary. 0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:08.600 But being alarmed about the fate of our future isn't enough. 0:01:08.959 --> 0:01:12.600 We've got to get activated and think creatively about tackling 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:16.520 the climate crisis together. So let's dig in. 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:26.360 We're fucking the future. Weird are fucking the future. 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:33.039 If you're listening to this, congrats you lived through the 0:01:33.280 --> 0:01:37.360 hottest year on record, and with the hotter temperatures, we 0:01:37.720 --> 0:01:42.120 also saw increased intensity in wildfires, and for many of 0:01:42.160 --> 0:01:45.120 us it's personal. It doesn't matter if you live in 0:01:45.120 --> 0:01:48.680 the country or a city. Wildfires are becoming a part 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:53.280 of all our lives. For me, wildfires became a huge 0:01:53.360 --> 0:01:56.160 part of my life. In twenty nineteen and twenty twenty, 0:01:57.160 --> 0:01:59.960 it was summerre in Australia and the whole country seemed 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:03.360 to be a blaze. As you can see, it's nuke 0:02:04.880 --> 0:02:05.840 it's just gone. 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:09.080 A state of fier emergency has been declared for the 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:11.400 first time in Queensland's history. 0:02:11.880 --> 0:02:15.360 Fifty nine million acres were burnt. That's two times the 0:02:15.440 --> 0:02:19.720 size of Pennsylvania. Thirty four people tragically lost their lives. 0:02:20.320 --> 0:02:24.160 Three billion animals were either killed or harmed. In Sydney, 0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:27.280 the sun cast a weird orange glow and the air 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:29.760 was filled with smoke for months. It fell like a 0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:33.480 movie Blade Runner. You could even feel the grit of 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:37.760 charcoal and toxic dust between your teeth. It's estimated the 0:02:37.840 --> 0:02:42.120 city air was ten times above Hazard's levels. So last 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:45.400 year when the massive Canadian wildfires happened, I had a 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:49.359 pretty clear idea of a horror's millions there were facing 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:52.959 smoke shut down seats in both Canada and the US. 0:02:53.520 --> 0:02:58.000 Air quality crashed and it had devastating effects on the environment. 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:02.480 The Canadian wildfires are released four hundred and eighty mega 0:03:02.520 --> 0:03:05.400 tons of carbon in twenty twenty three. That is an 0:03:05.480 --> 0:03:08.480 eye watering amount that few of any of us can imagine, 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:12.240 which is also to say, we've really got to figure 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:15.320 out wildfires if we're going to solve the climate crisis. 0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:19.800 That's why today I'm thrilled to be speaking with Glennis Humphrey, 0:03:20.080 --> 0:03:25.280 a virocologist at the University of Cape Town. She studies 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:28.440 fire history so that we can better understand and prepare 0:03:28.480 --> 0:03:32.440 for fires in the future. The interaction between human history 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:36.040 and environmental history is at the core of Glenus's research 0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:40.640 and gives us valuable insights into what's coming next. In 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:43.640 my field, we focus a lot on how humans are 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:46.880 damaging the natural environment, but there's another side of this. 0:03:48.000 --> 0:03:50.600 Indigenous peoples have been the custodians of our earth for 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:55.640 thousands of years, and their practices of land management are 0:03:55.840 --> 0:04:00.440 often regenerative rather than destructive. That's what and this is 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:03.840 research focuses on how and what we can learn from 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:05.520 historical land practice. 0:04:05.920 --> 0:04:09.840 I had the problem of been lectured by Norman Myers. 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:13.760 Norman Myers was a British environmentalist who consulted for the 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:18.400 European Commission, the United Nations, the World Bank, and even 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:22.160 the White House. Needless to say, he's a pretty big deal. 0:04:22.400 --> 0:04:25.960 He gave us a lecture of a very interesting human 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:31.120 perspective and ecological perspective. So it's been aware that this 0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:34.279 is a delicate and fine balance, and I think that 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:37.680 was when I realized that we need to manage these circumstances, 0:04:37.680 --> 0:04:41.920 and I developed an interest in human, social, and ecological circumstances. 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:44.880 Glynnis looks at all of it in her work and 0:04:44.960 --> 0:04:48.040 she tries to understand how the climate and humans are 0:04:48.080 --> 0:04:53.000 shifting fire patterns across the world. But to understand fire today, 0:04:53.320 --> 0:04:58.040 we've got to go back to basics. First things. First, 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:03.760 fires can't happen with dry vegetation, and that means areas 0:05:03.800 --> 0:05:07.200 experiencing drought are particularly vulnerable to wildfires. 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:11.320 So fires is really linked to rainfall, but also to 0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:15.080 the absence of rainfall and to draft periods. So if 0:05:15.160 --> 0:05:20.480 vegetation dries out to a certain extent, it becomes what 0:05:20.520 --> 0:05:24.039 we call in the fireworld or fire science world, is 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:24.800 fire weather. 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:30.280 Fire weather is a convergence of several environmental factors high temperatures, 0:05:30.440 --> 0:05:33.039 low humidity, and often high winds. 0:05:33.320 --> 0:05:36.679 And when you get a convergence of these different weather 0:05:36.720 --> 0:05:39.960 conditions and you have an ignition, you'll have the start 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:42.400 of a fire. So I think those are dynamics which 0:05:42.440 --> 0:05:44.160 are really important to understand. 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:48.320 When those ingredients are in place, there's a very real 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:51.880 risk of wildfires, which brings me to the second point. 0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:55.880 There are good fires and bad fires. A lot of 0:05:55.960 --> 0:05:59.640 places have naturally occurring fires that have happened for millennia 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:04.200 and crucial for a healthy ecosystem and landscape. Those fires 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:07.440 tend to look like small fire patches where the flame 0:06:07.520 --> 0:06:09.919 is contained to a small area because much of the 0:06:10.000 --> 0:06:14.040 floora nearby is too wet to ignite. But bad fires 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:16.320 look like the ones we're seeing a lot of lately, 0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:22.839 huge swaves of land destroyed. Unmanageable and truly frightening. Fires 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:27.200 are also a major contributor to carbon emissions. When a 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:30.640 landscape is burned the carbon it has been storing is 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:34.360 suddenly released into the atmosphere and the amounts can be 0:06:34.520 --> 0:06:39.400 truly staggering. For massive wildfires in Canada, last summer emitted 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:43.440 three times as much carbon as Canada typically pollutes annually. 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:46.800 There was a lot of carbon dioxide released and that's 0:06:46.800 --> 0:06:49.120 will results in global heating that will heat up the 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:53.480 earth and actually accelerate. You get those fires cause they 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:57.720 own fire weather, cause their own fire winds, which generates bigger, 0:06:58.240 --> 0:07:00.919 bigger fires. They've burned for longer. With an increase in 0:07:00.960 --> 0:07:04.240 carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, we really need to be 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:07.480 taking measures and listening to people on the ground and 0:07:07.560 --> 0:07:11.160 working together with people in order to manage these bigger 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:13.160 fires that are happening across the world. 0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:21.320 Today. Wildfires are becoming too large, too frequent, and too intense. 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:25.400 It hasn't always been this way. I mean during the 0:07:25.440 --> 0:07:29.760 Australian wildfires in twenty nineteen and twenty twenty, the Walamie 0:07:29.840 --> 0:07:34.080 Pine was nearly lost to the fires. Walamie Pines are 0:07:34.080 --> 0:07:39.000 the dinosaur trees. They've survived unscathed for ninety million years, 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:42.560 hidden in canyons just two hundred kilometers from the city 0:07:43.120 --> 0:07:46.880 and rediscovered just a couple of decades ago. Just think 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:52.120 about that this tree species has been around since the dinosaurs. 0:07:52.720 --> 0:07:54.760 There's only a few of them left on Earth, and 0:07:54.840 --> 0:07:57.440 we almost lost them because of these fires. 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:01.400 What we're seeing is different from the past. We're seeing 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:07.400 basically a change in the intensities of fires, the frequencies 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:12.440 of fire that we haven't actually seen before. And we're 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:15.440 aware of the fact that we're having increase in heat 0:08:15.480 --> 0:08:17.440 waves in drying our periods. 0:08:17.840 --> 0:08:21.720 Ecologists like Glennis look for fire patterns to determine what 0:08:21.920 --> 0:08:23.440 is normal and what isn't. 0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:26.480 What we understand as fires scientists is we study a 0:08:26.520 --> 0:08:29.400 fire pattern, and that's a repeated pattern of fire in 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:32.680 a certain place, at a certain scale, in a certain 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:36.120 vegetation type. So fire differs in different ecosystems all over 0:08:36.160 --> 0:08:40.440 the world, and that's very important to remember when you 0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:45.240 see a change where fires occurring where it didn't occur before, 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:48.480 or it's occurring at a much bigger scale than it 0:08:48.480 --> 0:08:51.800 did occur before. I think that's what's alerting us that 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:55.240 something is off. That's a warning to say things are 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:57.360 changing because it's different from the past. 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:01.839 Glenna says that one of the greatest inventions is actually 0:09:01.920 --> 0:09:03.240 for Humble satellite. 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:07.760 What's really been pivotal is the release and the advancement 0:09:07.840 --> 0:09:11.160 of remote sensing data. There's been a change in the 0:09:11.240 --> 0:09:14.839 advance of remote sensing data, which is basically satellite data. 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:20.559 So satellite data is measuring variables on the surface of 0:09:20.600 --> 0:09:24.679 the Earth, and when it comes to fires, heat signals, 0:09:24.760 --> 0:09:29.920 heat and the possession the geolocation of fires are detected 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:33.760 by satellites that are moving and circulating around the globe. 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:38.360 And I think from a fire perspective, these beautiful maps 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:41.439 that we're emerging that could actually where you could see 0:09:41.640 --> 0:09:44.840 where fires were occurring across the globe. And that was 0:09:44.880 --> 0:09:48.120 about the early two thousands, and I remember it was 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:52.400 a NASA produced image, and I think you might remember it. 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:55.840 It's this beautiful map that you can see where fires 0:09:55.840 --> 0:09:59.640 are occurring. And those maps were rarely illuminating to say, wow, 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:02.280 look at the extent of fire on the surface of 0:10:02.320 --> 0:10:02.720 the Earth. 0:10:02.960 --> 0:10:06.400 That's incredible, isn't it, Because before it was spot observations, 0:10:06.440 --> 0:10:09.240 someone sort of fire here and there, and people put 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:11.920 up on the map over time. Whereas here you're getting 0:10:12.000 --> 0:10:15.120 that single almost like a single shot of view from 0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:16.480 up above looking down. 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:19.920 And also you know, satellites are able to measure fire intensity. 0:10:20.320 --> 0:10:23.200 It's one of the fire variables that we need to 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:25.560 really be aware of because it's related to how hot 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:29.600 fires or how coolifire it and that is really important 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:34.400 in understanding how whether fires are damaging or not. Fire 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:38.440 intensity is really important to be aware of when understanding 0:10:38.760 --> 0:10:41.680 how fires move through our landscapes and in different vegetation 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:43.600 types and in a point in time. 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:47.400 And the bad news is that fire intensity is increasing 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:49.880 in many vulnerable areas around the world. 0:10:50.480 --> 0:10:53.240 We are seeing an intensity of fire increasing. And to 0:10:53.280 --> 0:10:56.400 take an example, the recent fires in Siberia in the 0:10:56.640 --> 0:11:01.160 Russian tundra, and those fires are I think is unusual. 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:03.840 And the fires that are seen in the boreal regions, 0:11:03.880 --> 0:11:07.120 the Arctic regions, that is something new that scientists are 0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:07.880 still grappling with. 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:11.000 Let's take a brief pause here and unpack what g 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:16.120 Linus is saying, because it's massive. What the fuck are 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:21.800 you talking abou The Artic is heating up at least 0:11:21.840 --> 0:11:25.199 twice as fast as the rest of the world. Fires 0:11:25.240 --> 0:11:28.080 are now able to take hold fare and with far 0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:32.000 greater ferocity than before. And it's not just for humble 0:11:32.080 --> 0:11:36.360 tree catching on fire. The Arctic is covered in peatlands 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:39.640 or peats, which are a type of wetland and packed 0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:43.960 with dead and decaying plants spanning back thousands of thousands 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:47.640 of years. It's basically like a massive pool of carbon 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:51.680 sitting just below the Earth's surface. And in normal times, 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:55.520 say fifty years ago, most peatlands had a high water 0:11:55.600 --> 0:11:58.760 table and weren't prone to fire. But because of the 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:03.839 increasing temperature, the water table has lowered, making the peatlands 0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:07.880 dry out, and unlike most forest fires, you don't have 0:12:08.000 --> 0:12:12.600 a huge, intense firestorm. Instead, these fires sit under the surface, 0:12:12.960 --> 0:12:17.240 smoldering away. In fact, one lab experiment found that smoldering 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:21.080 peat fire could survive at below minus thirty five degrees. 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:25.280 It's like they're cooking the Earth's surface, and obviously all 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:28.640 the carbon release from the plants goes into the atmosphere, 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:33.240 causing even more global heating. The bottom line is the 0:12:33.280 --> 0:12:36.520 fires in Siberia and the Arctic are so much worse 0:12:36.559 --> 0:12:41.120 for the planet's climate because it causes two problems. First, 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:44.760 you have the carbon released from the fires themselves, but 0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:49.079 the fires also melt the permafrost for frozen ground, releasing 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:53.280 more carbon and also creating huge amounts of that far 0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:57.920 stronger and nastier greenhouse gas methane, which we talked about 0:12:57.920 --> 0:13:00.560 in the last episode. And that's what the fuck we're 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:07.559 talking about. What the FuG are you're talking about? Okay, 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:11.840 back to Glynnis. I mean, that's extraordinary, isn't it, Glinnis? 0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:15.559 Because those are fires in Siberia going up towards the Arctic, 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:18.600 and we're getting these major landscape fires. They have never 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:20.960 been seen before on this level. That's right, It's just 0:13:21.000 --> 0:13:22.679 not what we expect to see fires. I think most 0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:24.520 people should not be able to relate to that. 0:13:24.840 --> 0:13:27.160 It was the first time in history that fire is 0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:29.600 recorded so close to the North Pole, and that should 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:31.319 be an alarm signal that something is wrong. 0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:33.760 That's a massive red flag, isn't it. That really is. 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:36.679 It's a red flag that the world is heating. There 0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:40.360 is heating going on, and because we are seeing ecological 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:43.679 changes in places that didn't burn previously at that extent 0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:45.440 and that intensity. 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:49.079 So we've got fires in places where previously they would 0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:52.480 have been unimaginable. But we also have a growth in 0:13:52.520 --> 0:13:56.720 the size, frequency, and intensity of the wildfires in areas 0:13:56.760 --> 0:13:59.520 where they were once a positive part of the environment. 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:03.160 This is caused in part by a heating world and 0:14:03.280 --> 0:14:07.359 decreased rainfall in many parts of a globe. But colonization 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:10.400 has also had a heavy hand to play in this crisis, 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:13.760 which brings us to the segment we call holy Fuck. 0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:24.040 To understand how colonization and fire policy interact, let's look 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:28.040 at one single biome. For savannah is the most fire 0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:32.320 prone environment in the world. This biome is characterized by 0:14:32.440 --> 0:14:38.000 seasonal droughts and extensive grasp for when dry is extremely flammable. 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:43.040 It's not a specific geographic place, but rather the savannah 0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:48.200 exists in several places around the world Brazil, Australia, Central 0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:51.920 and southern Africa, and many of these have been plagued 0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:55.960 by European colonization. But for our purposes, let's just take 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:59.680 the African savannah, which accounts for almost half of Africa's 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:00.920 total land area. 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:05.280 I worked in the central Kalihari with the Quessan and 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:10.640 Humbakush people, and I spent time tapping into their knowledge 0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:14.239 and understanding why they're used fire. And these people genetically 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:15.960 are some of the oldest people on Earth. 0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:20.760 For at least four hundred thousand years. Humans in Central 0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:23.520 Africa used fire as a tool for life. 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:26.480 It's part of their life, it's culturally connected to them, 0:15:26.800 --> 0:15:30.119 it's part of their society. So the burning of vegetation 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:33.480 and the burning, the use of fire has always been there. 0:15:33.800 --> 0:15:36.640 It wasn't just a way of cooking food. Fire was 0:15:36.760 --> 0:15:40.320 used to clear land, to hunt and later for agricultural purposes, 0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:45.160 replenishing the salt in the process. But when Europeans began 0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:49.160 colonizing and stealing land that belonged to indigenous peoples, they 0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:53.800 brought harmful fire suppression tactics with them. Europeans claimed that 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:59.120 traditional fire management practices would destroy resources, properties and the environment. 0:15:59.800 --> 0:16:02.240 In reality, the opposite is true. 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:08.280 With colonization came an idea that fires is bad and 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:11.800 that we should stop fires, and that's where the friction 0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:16.080 and the conflict started and where people were practicing traditional 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:18.760 practices and then all of a sudden they had to 0:16:18.800 --> 0:16:21.960 stop doing and were told that fire is bad, and 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:25.520 that's when things and that happened globally. It happened in Australia, 0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:29.320 it happened in America with the Native Americans, it happened 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:29.920 in Africa. 0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:34.160 Europeans banned fire as a land management practice, and those 0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:37.160 harmful policies are still in place in many parts of 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:41.640 a world. The legacy of fire suppression from colonization has 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:45.520 led to a huge number of wildfires in these areas. Today, 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:48.760 for Savannah, biom accounts for eighty six percent of the 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:52.560 world's fires. It's the kind of surprising fact that makes 0:16:52.600 --> 0:17:02.520 you sit back and say, holy fuck. Colonial legacies have 0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:06.240 led us to this moment, and now we're baling towards 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:08.200 a pretty blique fire prone future. 0:17:09.119 --> 0:17:12.600 It becomes really serious when it impacts people's lives. It's 0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:16.840 impacting on the urban fringe. It's moving into spaces where 0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:21.560 people aren't prepared to respond because there's been changes, for example, 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:24.840 in the vegetation around certain places is not being managed 0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:29.400 sufficiently to actually manage these catastrophic fires and these wildfires 0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:30.040 that happen. 0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:40.200 We're a fucking the future. We're a fucking the future. 0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:51.560 Glennus has been working with indigenous communities to better understand 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:56.440 their historical practices. This helps governments make more informed decisions 0:17:56.480 --> 0:17:57.600 about fire policy. 0:17:58.520 --> 0:18:02.400 So in my research, I worked with indigenous traditional people 0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:06.760 living in the Central Kalahari area in Namibia, and I 0:18:06.920 --> 0:18:10.359 asked people how they used fire, to understand how they 0:18:10.440 --> 0:18:12.879 used fire in the past. Why people use fire and 0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:15.760 wife is important for them, so what reasons why they 0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:16.440 used fire. 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:20.440 These kinds of questions and studies are critical to addressing 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:22.879 the legacy left behind by colonization. 0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:27.000 If you don't burn and use fire to manage fire, 0:18:27.280 --> 0:18:30.520 we're not going to address these issues. That's really important. 0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:33.600 So we use a term called prescribed fire or early 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:36.440 dry season burning. When you talk about traditional fire management, 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:40.159 we really need to realize that fire is something we 0:18:40.200 --> 0:18:42.680 need to use in order to manage life. 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:46.919 When Glennis says that it's not just a nice SoundBite, 0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:52.240 fire is absolutely necessary to a strong and healthy ecosystem. 0:18:52.400 --> 0:18:54.840 Fire is essential. We can't live with our fire. From 0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:58.919 a management perspective, there's certain plants that only respond to fire. So, 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:01.639 for example, in the system where I'm sitting right now, 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:05.120 surrounded by the ferin boss in a bi university hotspot 0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:09.040 in the Western Cape, certain species like for example, the 0:19:09.080 --> 0:19:12.760 protea species need fire to germinate. In other parts of 0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:15.960 the world, the seeds are actually trapped in those pine 0:19:15.960 --> 0:19:19.000 cones and the actually need heat to explode. And there's 0:19:19.040 --> 0:19:22.320 another perspective, we live with fire and there's people in 0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:25.560 really remote areas of Southern Africa and Africa that live 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:28.280 with fire on a daily basis, and people use fire 0:19:28.520 --> 0:19:31.800 to manage the vegetation around their homes, to manage fire 0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:35.359 to manage plants that they depend on. For example, the 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:39.800 Quersan in Namibia, they burn certain areas to actually encourage 0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:43.040 the grass of vegetation. It regenerates the grass and it 0:19:43.080 --> 0:19:47.199 results in improved productivity. We've known for millennia that a 0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:50.560 flush of green grass will attract a herd of zebra 0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:52.400 for grazing purposes. 0:19:52.520 --> 0:19:56.920 Glennis's work with local communities led Namibia to make policy 0:19:57.000 --> 0:19:59.520 changes that will help put the country on a more 0:19:59.560 --> 0:20:00.440 positive track. 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:04.240 For the first time in history, the Namibian government changed 0:20:04.280 --> 0:20:08.560 from a policy of fire suppression but actually recognized indigenous 0:20:08.560 --> 0:20:11.560 knowledge and traditional knowledge and the use of fire. People 0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:14.440 are using fire to manage fire. At the ministry level, 0:20:14.440 --> 0:20:17.400 I was in asking people how they understood fine, why 0:20:17.440 --> 0:20:20.560 they're used fire, and how they were using fire. International 0:20:20.640 --> 0:20:23.600 Park where actually it was a very unique circumstance because 0:20:23.720 --> 0:20:27.919 the indigenous community were allowed to live in the park. 0:20:28.480 --> 0:20:31.480 Usually people are removed, yes, of course, which. 0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:33.760 Is a sensitive issue across the world, people have been 0:20:33.800 --> 0:20:37.919 removed from ecological from protected areas. This was a unique 0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:42.840 circumstances where people were living amongst wildlife and fire, and 0:20:42.880 --> 0:20:45.960 so it was a brilliant from a scientific perspective, what 0:20:46.040 --> 0:20:49.640 a wonderful experiment to actually be able to ask people 0:20:49.640 --> 0:20:51.560 about why, how they were using fire, how they were 0:20:51.560 --> 0:20:54.399 living fire. And I think that was revealing in a 0:20:54.480 --> 0:20:57.040 sense that when I asked the ministry how they were 0:20:57.119 --> 0:21:00.280 using fire, they recognized that the use of fire in 0:21:00.320 --> 0:21:03.680 the season to actually remove the vegetation and the fuel 0:21:03.720 --> 0:21:07.520 load was really helping them manage the latter hot, dry 0:21:07.560 --> 0:21:11.439 season fires that've were damaging to biodiversity. There was a 0:21:11.440 --> 0:21:14.080 consensus between why the ministry, at the government level of 0:21:14.080 --> 0:21:17.000 the park management why they were using fire, as well 0:21:17.040 --> 0:21:20.440 as the community. They were using fire for the same reasons. 0:21:20.800 --> 0:21:23.760 And I think that's really important to realize is that 0:21:23.920 --> 0:21:26.280 the rationale was the same. You just had to bring 0:21:26.359 --> 0:21:29.480 different people's different knowledge forms to come and understand, say 0:21:30.280 --> 0:21:33.239 why using fire and try and understand that. And I 0:21:33.240 --> 0:21:36.240 think that really needs to be elevated because we can 0:21:36.359 --> 0:21:40.240 learn and we have learned, and governance can learn from 0:21:40.320 --> 0:21:45.640 traditional communities how to manage these artbreaks of fire. If 0:21:45.640 --> 0:21:48.560 we don't use fire to manage fire, we're not going 0:21:48.600 --> 0:21:52.320 to stop the infernos and the conflagrations which are occurring 0:21:52.480 --> 0:21:55.480 all over the world. We really need to apply that knowledge. 0:21:57.480 --> 0:22:00.879 But if we want to solve this crisis, Glynnis says, 0:22:00.960 --> 0:22:03.560 what's happening in the media needs to happen at a 0:22:03.760 --> 0:22:05.119 much larger scale. 0:22:05.280 --> 0:22:08.760 There needs to be greater recognition of traditional fire management 0:22:08.760 --> 0:22:12.840 practices in order to address some of our wildfire issues. 0:22:13.119 --> 0:22:16.000 People need to be allowed to burn and local authorities 0:22:16.040 --> 0:22:18.840 need to be allowed to burn in a certain area. 0:22:19.480 --> 0:22:23.160 And that is because fire, as I explained, is really 0:22:23.240 --> 0:22:28.240 essential to ecological functioning in the majority of ecosystems across 0:22:28.280 --> 0:22:30.920 the world. Just that the vegetation type and the fire 0:22:31.000 --> 0:22:35.679 cycle will differ according to the climate and the current 0:22:35.720 --> 0:22:38.719 and the rainfall patterns and the weather patterns, and that 0:22:38.800 --> 0:22:41.680 really needs to be monitored. From a scientific point of view, 0:22:41.800 --> 0:22:45.840 that data is really essential for understanding when to light fires. 0:22:46.160 --> 0:22:50.400 But the sort of the convergence between people and when 0:22:50.400 --> 0:22:53.120 they burn and the fire science, if you bring those 0:22:53.160 --> 0:22:56.760 two together, that's where you can reach consensus and actually 0:22:56.840 --> 0:22:59.960 understand and actually use fire. But an important aspect of 0:23:00.119 --> 0:23:02.199 people need to be allowed to burn. We shouldn't be 0:23:02.240 --> 0:23:05.520 suppressing fire. That is terminology which has caused a lot 0:23:05.520 --> 0:23:07.800 of damage in the past. But to move into a 0:23:07.840 --> 0:23:12.080 new era of addressing the wildfire scenarios, we should not 0:23:12.160 --> 0:23:15.960 be using We should not be talking about fire suppression 0:23:15.960 --> 0:23:19.080 and fire prevention. We should be talking about fire management 0:23:19.680 --> 0:23:24.560 because that is fire prevention. Fire management equates to fire prevention. 0:23:24.800 --> 0:23:28.600 So in order to dress global biodiversity and health impacts, 0:23:28.640 --> 0:23:31.680 and to support and look after our planet and are 0:23:31.800 --> 0:23:34.320 the ecological functioning of it, we need to be thinking 0:23:34.560 --> 0:23:38.840 where we actually living, and communities can create awareness about 0:23:38.880 --> 0:23:43.880 the fire problem and be activists for fire. Fire activist 0:23:43.960 --> 0:23:47.800 degrees awareness that my home is surrounded by alien invasives 0:23:47.920 --> 0:23:51.639 and actually create a group yourself and start removing vegetation 0:23:51.800 --> 0:23:54.520 from around your home to protect yourself from fire. So 0:23:54.560 --> 0:23:57.040 there are things you can do from where you're at. 0:23:57.400 --> 0:24:02.320 And perhaps most importantly, Glenn said, we shouldn't lose hope. 0:24:02.640 --> 0:24:05.440 There's been a lot of progress in the fireworld. 0:24:05.920 --> 0:24:10.760 I've seen huge leaps in changes and the recognition of 0:24:10.800 --> 0:24:14.920 the importance of the social dynamics in ecological and science 0:24:14.960 --> 0:24:18.040 circles and That's what gives me hope is being able 0:24:18.080 --> 0:24:22.159 to bring different disciplines and people from different walks of 0:24:22.200 --> 0:24:24.800 life together. And if we can do that, we can 0:24:24.840 --> 0:24:27.680 actually really move forward and address bigger issues. But it 0:24:27.760 --> 0:24:31.960 requires the social process, which is often leather intensive scientist 0:24:31.920 --> 0:24:35.800 stuff and run away from people, Johnathan, You we know 0:24:36.280 --> 0:24:40.000 planting cologious and nervous of people, and you know not 0:24:40.040 --> 0:24:43.119 all scientists like people. We need to bring people together 0:24:43.160 --> 0:24:45.960