Speaker 1: Welcome back to Popcorn Book Club. This week we are
Speaker 1: going in for some screen time talking the V four
Speaker 1: Vendetta film adaptation from two thousand five, directed by James McTeague,
Speaker 1: written by the Wachowski sisters and also a sort of
Speaker 1: people and they know. I think it was sort of
Speaker 1: shadow directed by the Wachowski sisters because it has some
Speaker 1: of their sort of like visual flares and they were
Speaker 1: like Unit two directors. But all that to say, vitam
Speaker 1: movie starry Natalie Portman and Hugo Weaving s V and
Speaker 1: I'll go on the record as saying it's my most
Speaker 1: basic opinion, but I really like this movie. I also
Speaker 1: like it. I will say though, since I've seen this
Speaker 1: movie many times, including once a couple of months ago. Uh,
Speaker 1: I think that after reading it, after reading the graphic novel,
Speaker 1: it definitely shifted my perspective of it in terms of
Speaker 1: looking at it as not just a movie that I like,
Speaker 1: but also as an adaptation. And one of the things
Speaker 1: that comes in very early on is the idea of
Speaker 1: like romance. And in that very first opening scene where
Speaker 1: we see Guy Fox being hanged, Uh, there's the like,
Speaker 1: but what of the man? And we see the woman
Speaker 1: who's like his wife or whoever in the crowd, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, I don't care for that. But like
Speaker 1: watching it again, I was like, I don't think we
Speaker 1: needed to start with this. I think we could have
Speaker 1: started with the two of them getting ready. I think
Speaker 1: that this was unnecessary. Yeah, I will say where I
Speaker 1: think the biggest misstep of this movie is is the
Speaker 1: little romance between V and e V. I don't think
Speaker 1: it needs it, but felt felt very like an unnecessary
Speaker 1: Hollywood thing. But other than that, I think this is
Speaker 1: better than the book. I think it's cleaner. I think
Speaker 1: it makes more sense than last week. I think that
Speaker 1: it's better than the book, and I do stand by that.
Speaker 1: But I definitely did see it in a different light
Speaker 1: in terms of adaptation, And there were some things that
Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, it makes so much sense that
Speaker 1: they did this instead of that. There were other things
Speaker 1: where I was like, that really does, Like Alan Moore
Speaker 1: is kind of right. This does really change the way
Speaker 1: that the thesis is perceived. And if you know, Alan
Speaker 1: Moore at the end doesn't have his name in the credit,
Speaker 1: It just says from the novel. Illographic novel illustrated by
Speaker 1: David Lloyd, it doesn't He's like, no, yeah, he just
Speaker 1: disavowed himself. He was like, I ain't write this. I
Speaker 1: don't know what this trash is. But I did not
Speaker 1: write it. I mean it's a bold stance, like i'd
Speaker 1: be like, I hate it. He I didn't he I thought.
Speaker 1: He refused. He didn't watch it either. He just read
Speaker 1: the screenplay. I read it and like was like, I
Speaker 1: hate this, Which it was funny to me because I
Speaker 1: my reaction to this movie was I loved it. I
Speaker 1: thought the script and the adaptation from a script perspective
Speaker 1: was a plus, like just so like taking out all
Speaker 1: of the ideas and streamlining and making it really compelling
Speaker 1: and really making it about V. I thought the directing
Speaker 1: was a little B movie, Like I think I wish
Speaker 1: the Wachowskis didn't just shadow directed. I wish they directed
Speaker 1: directed it. I know that you mean be like A
Speaker 1: versus B. But I was thinking it was very a
Speaker 1: lot of similarities to be movie storied, a lot of
Speaker 1: the same motifs and themes. Um. Yeah, I think it
Speaker 1: was like no offense to the director, but it felt
Speaker 1: like almost a director trying to be the witch. How
Speaker 1: skis and wasn't quite as adept to be fair, I mean,
Speaker 1: James mctigue has not had a long career after this movie.
Speaker 1: His biggest credit up until this movie was assistant director
Speaker 1: on Star Wars Episode two, Attack of the Clones, a
Speaker 1: beloved movie by all movie goer. This was this was
Speaker 1: his first feature film. I think it was cool that
Speaker 1: the wowskis when I looked it up, because I was like,
Speaker 1: why did they direct this? And I got very up
Speaker 1: in arms about it. I was like, Oh, they didn't
Speaker 1: want to. They wanted a break and wanted to just
Speaker 1: kind of direct from the side and maybe probably get
Speaker 1: more sleep. Um, so they brought up their first a
Speaker 1: d which is a cool thing to do. But h
Speaker 1: I really like Alan Moore hated it so much when
Speaker 1: I thought there were so many little love notes to
Speaker 1: the book in this movie. They're just all these wonderful
Speaker 1: easter eggs, like like the dolls in Prothrow Shower where
Speaker 1: they don't talk about how he's an avidult calender, but
Speaker 1: like if you've read the book, you know, and it's
Speaker 1: a fun little nod. Or the show girls in their
Speaker 1: show girl costume on Dirty d Tricks Show and you
Speaker 1: also reference they reference, Um, there's a little tiny little
Speaker 1: clip of Storm Saxon. Yeah, and I do. I think
Speaker 1: if you watch it for a second, you see that
Speaker 1: the villain is like a really um racist caricature of
Speaker 1: an Arab person, which does feel like into thousand five,
Speaker 1: And I mean that was a little more bush like
Speaker 1: bush era what the racist villain absolutely would be on
Speaker 1: a show like that. I particularly liked this adaptation for
Speaker 1: the character choices that were made, like letting Ev have
Speaker 1: a lot more agency, putting her in a position as
Speaker 1: someone who works in the like state media news. UH station.
Speaker 1: Also loved the choice of how V was directed and
Speaker 1: how he's like much more charismatic, much more like kind
Speaker 1: of devilish and fun. And I also liked the choice
Speaker 1: that they made for Finch to to actually like let that,
Speaker 1: like the very final panel in the book now feels
Speaker 1: appropriate for the Finch that was depicted in the movie. Yes,
Speaker 1: this person who is like has been working under the
Speaker 1: thumb of this like this terrible authoritarian government and is
Speaker 1: starting to see how bad they are and is trying
Speaker 1: to piece together the puzzle and in the end makes
Speaker 1: the choice to let e V send that train. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I loved that, and like the fact that she frames
Speaker 1: it as hope I think really gives me chills. I
Speaker 1: will get to it, but I the end of this movie,
Speaker 1: when everyone's removing their maths and we get which I
Speaker 1: always whisper quick flashes of her parents and of a
Speaker 1: Valerie and of Gordon. Oh, I'm getting chills just saying it.
Speaker 1: I find such a such a whamp. I'm like, Oh,
Speaker 1: it's so good. They're all there and he's there, and
Speaker 1: there I am. And it's an idea, it's effective, effective,
Speaker 1: it's super cathartics at the cathartic ending that we wanted
Speaker 1: from that we talked about last week of just like
Speaker 1: there's hope, and also V goes out the way that
Speaker 1: V wants to go out. M yeah, So I really
Speaker 1: love that they make e v older. I think it
Speaker 1: is weird that she's sixteen in the graphic novel. I
Speaker 1: am uncomfortable with it, especially when she gets into that
Speaker 1: intense sexual relationship in book two. Uh. But something else
Speaker 1: that I really like. I love the scene where VS
Speaker 1: introduced and where EV is introduced to V. Because as
Speaker 1: I was reading the latter half of the graphic novel,
Speaker 1: I was like why why do I like V Like
Speaker 1: I don't think I do. And in the movie watching
Speaker 1: the movie again, I was like, oh, that's why I've
Speaker 1: always liked this character, because he's definitely still a little
Speaker 1: like not all they are all the time and doesn't
Speaker 1: think the way that I think we would think, as
Speaker 1: you're lay people who are not theater people who took
Speaker 1: what cyclass. But like in that scene where he does
Speaker 1: his like monologue with all the vs and in view
Speaker 1: of thisissitude, but I did three vs, I cannot do
Speaker 1: the whole thing. And there was a point I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna learn this when I was like twenty, I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna learn. But I love like when Evie asks
Speaker 1: him who are you? And he says who is? But
Speaker 1: the form following the function what and what I am
Speaker 1: is a man in a mask? And then she's like, right,
Speaker 1: I can tell that He's like right, I'm just saying
Speaker 1: mask who they are? Like I love that, Like it's
Speaker 1: like the Brits say they got good Bana, yeah, and
Speaker 1: sand totally right that. Like he is way more fun
Speaker 1: and funny in this than he is in the graphic novel.
Speaker 1: I also really we're talking character changes I really love
Speaker 1: what they do with Gordon, who's played by my favorite.
Speaker 1: He's basically an invention for the film. The only similarity
Speaker 1: is he's, you know, an older man who Evie comes
Speaker 1: to for like protection and safety. But in the film,
Speaker 1: if you haven't seen, in that, Gordon is a host
Speaker 1: of a television program and he's famous and as money. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's laurened Well and he but he hosts the show.
Speaker 1: He's Stephen Colbert, he's more. He's more Stephen Colbert. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and he In the first night that Eve's out on
Speaker 1: the streets, she wasn't trying to work her first night
Speaker 1: as a prostitute. She was going on a date to
Speaker 1: visit uh Dad Gordon Dietrich at his house, Daddy Dtric
Speaker 1: at his house. Um. But we find out that he
Speaker 1: sort of invites her as a front, that he is
Speaker 1: a closet gay man, and that he you know, is
Speaker 1: a member of this party, but is um secretly rebellious.
Speaker 1: He has a copy of the Koran, he has banned art,
Speaker 1: and eventually he's arrested and killed in a way that
Speaker 1: maybe if someone who works in media, I found so
Speaker 1: affecting because you sometimes think that like money or fame
Speaker 1: or at least like public attention will save you. It's
Speaker 1: very much. I mean that he was like he thought
Speaker 1: that he was going to have to do a boring
Speaker 1: fund phraser of five fine after doing a show that
Speaker 1: made fun of the Chancellor. And I know you will
Speaker 1: note I think it's viscerally scary to see someone like
Speaker 1: that then get his uh it's not come up, and
Speaker 1: but then get it made. That was like the moment
Speaker 1: where I'm like, oh, this government is fucking scary. And
Speaker 1: I felt that fair so viscerally because he was someone
Speaker 1: with what should have been power but then was made powerless. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I do also feel like I should point out Daniel
Speaker 1: where my husband works for a talk show. For a
Speaker 1: very long time, he worked for Cool Bear, and every
Speaker 1: time he has seen the show that Dietrich puts on,
Speaker 1: he points out that it is a terrible show. It's
Speaker 1: very dub and done to Benny Hill music, but it's effective.
Speaker 1: It's very no. No, yeah, you know, I've seen Monny
Speaker 1: Python like I could have done a lot better. Um
Speaker 1: so yeah, So Danny Ditrice puts on this um appallingly
Speaker 1: bad like vaudeville sketch making fun of the Chancellor, and
Speaker 1: I think that's actually really effective because I think to
Speaker 1: any modern audience, that show is very bad um and
Speaker 1: everybody in their society loves it, like that is the
Speaker 1: most rebellious thing they have seen in decades in the
Speaker 1: wildly subversa by their standards. I think it's intentionally bad.
Speaker 1: I know, my husband just thinks the people making this
Speaker 1: movie had no idea what talk shows are in the
Speaker 1: head indeed never It's interesting that you said decades because
Speaker 1: what's really weird about this movie and watching it again,
Speaker 1: the timeline for how long they've been under this dictatorship
Speaker 1: was much shorter than I had imagined it in my head. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they were still making regular No, it was less because
Speaker 1: in Valerie's thing, because the years have been shifted obviously
Speaker 1: for the film, because the film came out in two
Speaker 1: thousand five, So they were like, we're not going to
Speaker 1: set this in the nineties. This is I think it'll
Speaker 1: resonate more if we said it in the future, which
Speaker 1: is set in UM. So she says, in two thousand five,
Speaker 1: I came out to my parents or whatever, and then
Speaker 1: in two thousand I think fifteen was when she was
Speaker 1: when she was taken but we know, but we know
Speaker 1: that maybe they only came for gay people later, because
Speaker 1: Evie's parents were taken when she was when she was twelve,
Speaker 1: and we can assume that she's probably twenty two now
Speaker 1: are younger. But so I I assumed maybe like they
Speaker 1: came for political dissidents first and then it just got
Speaker 1: worse and worse worse. And also I think we also
Speaker 1: have to assume that Valerie was hiding for a while,
Speaker 1: that they maybe weren't public about their relationship. I mean,
Speaker 1: Valerie was also a movie star. Yea, Valerie might have
Speaker 1: had the protection that comes from being a wealthy white
Speaker 1: woman in almost any society for a while until she didn't.
Speaker 1: Much Like Gordon Dietrich, that whole that whole thing made
Speaker 1: me cry. It's so beautifully so the VALERIEU. The Valerie
Speaker 1: sequence is maybe one that is the closest to the novel,
Speaker 1: and I think it really works. What do you guys think?
Speaker 1: I love verbatim from there were They were just like
Speaker 1: slight changes that I noticed having read it very recently.
Speaker 1: It was like, oh okay, But I think that they
Speaker 1: were changes that were meant to honor and uplift the story,
Speaker 1: not to take away from it. I think generally the
Speaker 1: changes in the movie were made to honor and uplift
Speaker 1: the story. To me, as people who really loved the graphic,
Speaker 1: I love it. It's very clear they love it. I mean,
Speaker 1: I love the choice to of like getting like going
Speaker 1: back and forth between Valerie and also e V like
Speaker 1: going through the motion or being tortured and like coming
Speaker 1: back to the story every like. I loved that sequence.
Speaker 1: Also loved the outfits that those lesbians wore to come
Speaker 1: out to her parents. I was like, this is what
Speaker 1: you think. This is amazing. These outs are insane, seeing
Speaker 1: like when was this movie made two thou five, like
Speaker 1: two thousand five dystopian lesbian clothes? I was like, nailed it,
Speaker 1: loved it. There was a tiny thing that I realized
Speaker 1: watching it again this time, because again this is probably
Speaker 1: like the fifth or hey, the fifth v um but
Speaker 1: at least the fifth time I've seen it. Uh, there was.
Speaker 1: He says that the notes were passed to him the
Speaker 1: same way that they were passed to her in the cell,
Speaker 1: which I'm like, cool, cool, cool, And then I remember
Speaker 1: that his entire body was burned in a fire. Where
Speaker 1: were the notes made of toilet? Paper. He but he's
Speaker 1: the one who set the fire, so maybe he oh yeah,
Speaker 1: he set that fire. So and then he emerged through
Speaker 1: it and his entire body was burnt. Maybe he'd been
Speaker 1: it's paper, Maybe he hit nose pieces. He wanted to
Speaker 1: say that, Remember I said, I imagine he read like
Speaker 1: hundreds of times. I feel like put it in he
Speaker 1: was collecting things. He put a little too. We put
Speaker 1: the two of his butt right before the But I
Speaker 1: will say into that end, I really liked the detail
Speaker 1: of seeing these hands, Like I thought that was a
Speaker 1: really good, creepy but perfect moment of like seeing the
Speaker 1: hands and because that's all you need to understand is
Speaker 1: like that he is not the man behind this mask.
Speaker 1: And then it kind of puts that to rest and
Speaker 1: in a way that is like delicate and like you
Speaker 1: see her at first kind of strike back and then
Speaker 1: have this sympathy and like wanting to know more, and
Speaker 1: and it gives you that point of interest of like
Speaker 1: what did happen to him? If you hadn't read the book. Um,
Speaker 1: I really thought so many of the details that enriched
Speaker 1: V in this in this movie really made me love
Speaker 1: V a lot more. And to that end, I want
Speaker 1: to talk about Hugo Weaving. Um we stand stand Hugo.
Speaker 1: I feel like we were talking about this on our thread,
Speaker 1: but just to bring listeners in that like who was it?
Speaker 1: I haven't pulled up um that James pure Purifoy Purefoy
Speaker 1: was hired to play V but then he couldn't get
Speaker 1: into the mask stuff and was fired and now and
Speaker 1: then he believing who played the villain in the matrix?
Speaker 1: Who that in that performance in itself I think is
Speaker 1: just completely underrated. Um and he was an LTR came
Speaker 1: in and it was like I can take use my
Speaker 1: mask work from and I'm like, great, we have a
Speaker 1: nerdy theater theater major coming in playing V. It is perfect. Um.
Speaker 1: I still felt the real theater major annoying theater major.
Speaker 1: Flair I wrote at some point when he was fun,
Speaker 1: he was putting up all those dominoes. I was like,
Speaker 1: I was like, the dominoes are just for him, and
Speaker 1: weeks weeks putting up those dominoes. Do you know how
Speaker 1: long it takes putting up as it takes a really
Speaker 1: long time. I read on the like Tribuna on IMDb
Speaker 1: that it took thousands of hours for multiple people to
Speaker 1: put together those dominantes. They were experts. They were domino experts.
Speaker 1: Is to be a domino expert, I don't think so.
Speaker 1: And also I will say the dominoes are lifted directly
Speaker 1: from the graphic novel, but it was a much less
Speaker 1: elaborate set up. In the graphic novel, they were like, oh,
Speaker 1: we're just going to do the outline and then the circle,
Speaker 1: like we're good. Yeah, they filled it in. I got
Speaker 1: different colors filling it in, gonna knock it down, like
Speaker 1: was in of hours. I mean, how many times I'm
Speaker 1: just thinking proper prop work. He didn't even call Evie
Speaker 1: in like, hey, even look at this, look at this,
Speaker 1: this is gonna be really cool. Look look, I know
Speaker 1: I know that I'm like I don't live my life
Speaker 1: for other people, and like you should try like doing
Speaker 1: things just for you more. But if I set up
Speaker 1: all those dominoes, I would definitely like call my mom
Speaker 1: like yeah, he did good job. I'd be proud of myself.
Speaker 1: And it's like, I want to say, it's weird that
Speaker 1: he doesn't just for himself. But in this particular instance,
Speaker 1: I was like I don't get it, Like this is
Speaker 1: elaborate Okay, I have to go set up thousands of
Speaker 1: dominoes just for me. I'll be back slightly back to
Speaker 1: the film. I think the movie makes a very strong
Speaker 1: choice to want to tie everything up in a much
Speaker 1: neater package than the book does, where first there's the
Speaker 1: his first main announcement at Jordan Tower is like the
Speaker 1: day after I guess, the day of November five, and
Speaker 1: he says, in one year, this is what's going to happen.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do this. So the entire movie has the
Speaker 1: entire timeframe of one year. But also and also maybe
Speaker 1: they was smart and screenwriting just put a clock on it.
Speaker 1: But also the most like come together thing that I
Speaker 1: think they do is something totally different that's not in
Speaker 1: the book. But the idea of this St. Mary's virus
Speaker 1: that there was there there are these these testing facilities,
Speaker 1: uh lark Hill, like these concentration camps, but at these
Speaker 1: concentration camps, the thing that the test saying that they
Speaker 1: were doing on v which wasn't really specified in the
Speaker 1: graphic novel, if I recall, was we find out in
Speaker 1: the film was genetic warfare, not genetic viral warfare, which
Speaker 1: is like a now illegal under the Geneva convention, but
Speaker 1: they were they were coming up with what they thought
Speaker 1: would be the next Adam bomb, which was a a
Speaker 1: virus as a weapon, So that is specifically what they
Speaker 1: were testing at this place where v was. And then
Speaker 1: we find out or the detective discovers that the government
Speaker 1: actually used this St. Mary's virus on their own. People
Speaker 1: said it was Islamic extremists and then used that to
Speaker 1: overthrow the government, which is a not so I mean,
Speaker 1: it's it's a little bush to nine eleven, but in
Speaker 1: not so veiled uh connection though to like, well, when
Speaker 1: there's an act of extreme terrorism from an outside force,
Speaker 1: government consolidates power under nationalist identity, like that is something historically,
Speaker 1: I mean. And also that they had the cure too,
Speaker 1: that was the big part of it. It would be
Speaker 1: crazy if they called it something like the China virus
Speaker 1: or something, right, Oh yeah, well that would be topical.
Speaker 1: I mean that whole part when they were showing the
Speaker 1: newspapers and it was like it was eight thousand day,
Speaker 1: the government today thousand, and it was just like, oh
Speaker 1: even in like the wildest imagination of the wachowskis that
Speaker 1: like eighty thousand dead to a government would would be
Speaker 1: like ruining. Not imagine if people found out that the
Speaker 1: government had done nothing and they were like, we loved
Speaker 1: those guys, fought them in for another term. I literally
Speaker 1: had to take a nap after I saw that. I
Speaker 1: was like, I can't. I just paused the movie and
Speaker 1: took a nap because I was like that to people
Speaker 1: to like hearing a film to reference like you can't
Speaker 1: leave quarantine, I was like, I know, a real bummer.
Speaker 1: It also made me very sad because the government like
Speaker 1: specifically probably like targeted the St. Mary's School because like, oh,
Speaker 1: an attack on children is so Irish. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: It turns out there are gonna be a lot of
Speaker 1: people being like you should open up St. Mary's like that.
Speaker 1: I was thinking, like, oh, just like open up school.
Speaker 1: It's no big deal. That's it's everything is worse than
Speaker 1: any dystopian director coal To possibly imagined. Yeah, well I
Speaker 1: thought it was interesting also how there was I mean,
Speaker 1: Alan Moore complains that it's very American and not British
Speaker 1: the way he wanted it to be. But I did
Speaker 1: think I was just not a great not It's funny
Speaker 1: to me that I used to think that like I
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, she's doing it and watching it at
Speaker 1: this time. I was like, she's trying, love you girl,
Speaker 1: but that she needed a better dialect coach. Yes, But
Speaker 1: what I was gonna say was there's this scene and
Speaker 1: where Creedy is talking to Finch and he's basically accusing
Speaker 1: Finch of doing his job poorly on purpose because he
Speaker 1: sympathizes with the terrorists. And he's like, well, your family's Irish, right,
Speaker 1: It's terrible what St. Mary's did to the Irish, And
Speaker 1: there is like a lot of subtle not I mean
Speaker 1: it's not subtle, but there's a lot of like racism
Speaker 1: towards the Irish. Even before prothero dies, he's talking about
Speaker 1: his Irish lighting director of photography Patty. Yeah, he calls
Speaker 1: him a Patty. He's like, I don't want to see
Speaker 1: him there. Get rid of him. He doesn't know how
Speaker 1: to light me. If you don't get a new DP tomorrow,
Speaker 1: things are gonna be bad for you. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: things are about to be real bad for you. I mean,
Speaker 1: you wish you weren't racist in your last moment to
Speaker 1: find new people to be racist Melissa Place. Oh, just
Speaker 1: while we're on Pro throw him in the shower with
Speaker 1: his massive screens all around him, Like what, I just like,
Speaker 1: does he loved it to himself? Yes? Right, he's probably
Speaker 1: Musk has a bathroom like that, just like yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: why would you need it if you're not going to
Speaker 1: jerk off in the shower exactly? I mean, even if
Speaker 1: he's not physically jerking off, he is emotionally jerking off
Speaker 1: to the idea of him being the voice of England
Speaker 1: and but alternate idea that he is more charitable than
Speaker 1: he deserves. Maybe he can't stand to be alone with
Speaker 1: his own thoughts, um, Like you know, do you ever
Speaker 1: have that thing for you have a lot of anxiety
Speaker 1: about like things going on, like you just need the
Speaker 1: television on in the backroom that he's mouthing the words
Speaker 1: the thought of like you know, maybe he doesn't want
Speaker 1: to be alone when he takes a huge ship. Maybe
Speaker 1: he's he's guilty, Maybe he feels guilty and doesn't want
Speaker 1: to think about I mean, I think you're not wrong
Speaker 1: these I mean there are elements of trip to that
Speaker 1: where it's like, yeah, these are people who don't want
Speaker 1: to think critically. They want to distract themselves constantly well,
Speaker 1: and I think that, like, it's interesting looking at this
Speaker 1: from the perspective of it being made in two thousand five,
Speaker 1: before social media was the behemoth that it is now.
Speaker 1: Having all these screens in your bathroom does seem like bananas,
Speaker 1: But usually most of us have a screen in the
Speaker 1: bathroom with us now. Yeah, And like two thousand five,
Speaker 1: my Space existed. Facebook was just about to like become
Speaker 1: a thing, but only in collegests. Yeah, it was about
Speaker 1: it was. It existed, but it was about to become
Speaker 1: like a revolution and destroy democracies. Revolution. You're talking there
Speaker 1: because I joined Facebook, I think in two thousand six. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And that was when you still needed to be a
Speaker 1: part of a network. And it was a big deal
Speaker 1: to us when they when they introduced no network, when
Speaker 1: anyone could join Facebook destroyed Facebook, did you guys? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: did you guys? Like um when Evie Uh, A thing
Speaker 1: that she does in the movie that she doesn't do
Speaker 1: in the book is when she opens the window for
Speaker 1: v for the pedophile priest that she's like, help me,
Speaker 1: I'm the terrorists, I want immunity. Someone's gonna murder you,
Speaker 1: and he thinks she's playing along. I thought that that
Speaker 1: from a screenwriting point in the moment you're like, shut up, Evie,
Speaker 1: But from a screenwriting standpoint and also from like a
Speaker 1: narrative standpoint, it does it feels relatable where you're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: she has no loyalty to this insane guy. And also
Speaker 1: then it gives her like a chance to to grow,
Speaker 1: to to get on board with his ideology because yeah,
Speaker 1: that maybe is what I would do with you know,
Speaker 1: he let me out and it's a murderer guy. I
Speaker 1: think that was one example of how the screens play
Speaker 1: really worked for me in points when the directing did not,
Speaker 1: because I there was something about like the way it
Speaker 1: was staged and directed and shot that I was like
Speaker 1: not in it emotionally with her, Like you weren't just
Speaker 1: with her in that moment. You didn't see moments of
Speaker 1: her right before feeling terrified, Like it didn't tell that
Speaker 1: story to me in that moment, So it felt very jarring.
Speaker 1: And maybe it was also because I just read the
Speaker 1: book and was expecting a different outcome, But like from
Speaker 1: a storytelling perspective, it felt very grounded, like that's what
Speaker 1: a young woman would do who felt trapped and had
Speaker 1: no loyalty to this man. But uh, but yeah, I
Speaker 1: didn't fully buy it. You're right. It would have been
Speaker 1: so much better if we got like a moment where
Speaker 1: she's like scared and like, yeah, so we see that
Speaker 1: internal thing. A good point, thank you, rebuttal Uh. It
Speaker 1: felt to me more calculated in terms of she had
Speaker 1: Daddy Dietrick's address on a slip of paper in the
Speaker 1: shadow gallery and we see her looking at it and
Speaker 1: she's like, you know what, you can do this, and
Speaker 1: then she takes a moment to try and then be like, oh,
Speaker 1: v you know, I want to help more. How can
Speaker 1: I help? So it felt more like a woman in
Speaker 1: a domestic abuse situation trying to get out, and then
Speaker 1: in that moment with the priest, she's like very hurried
Speaker 1: because she's like, you have like twelve seconds to help
Speaker 1: me get out, and I've been planning this very carefully
Speaker 1: and I need you to be better than you are
Speaker 1: in this moment and help me. But also why why
Speaker 1: did she open the window for? Yeah? That felt confusing
Speaker 1: to me. That was the one thing I couldn't wrap
Speaker 1: my head around. Yeah, and I because yeah, I just
Speaker 1: felt like I didn't buy it from an emotional perspective
Speaker 1: like I wasn't with her and worried for her in
Speaker 1: that moment. I was more like, Oh, this is a turn,
Speaker 1: you know, and not a way that she also cres
Speaker 1: on the news all the time, like when she's I
Speaker 1: know she's wearing pigtails. But when she says ef Hammond,
Speaker 1: presumably he has seen many pictures of Ef Hammon. I
Speaker 1: love that His response is like, Oh, I like this
Speaker 1: game this is. But it's also like I'm just gonna
Speaker 1: keep pettified context thing where it's like, if you assume
Speaker 1: someone came from the agency you're you're in that you're primed. Okay.
Speaker 1: I've been in situations like that where it's like I've
Speaker 1: seen a person's face a bunch of times. Dana, there
Speaker 1: was a time in college where we were waiting for
Speaker 1: a shuttle together and you were talking to this guy
Speaker 1: who had just written a very controversial bed for the newspaper,
Speaker 1: and the whole time you were talking to him, I
Speaker 1: didn't realize it was him, and he kept looking at
Speaker 1: me like he was scared I was going to get
Speaker 1: him at him because a lot of black people were
Speaker 1: managing at that point. Um The op ed basically implied
Speaker 1: the only white men with land should be able to
Speaker 1: He was like, yeah, we set that's like when he left,
Speaker 1: and you were like, oh, that was I'm not going
Speaker 1: to say his real name. I forgot his don't say
Speaker 1: I know it, but I'm not going to say it.
Speaker 1: But like that was writing mcgriderson and I was like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: that was so that. I think I'll give him that.
Speaker 1: He was expecting a child prostitute in that moment and
Speaker 1: not a terrorist. I mean, yes, I also think that
Speaker 1: is a little bizarre because in the book, v actually
Speaker 1: is very young, Like the fact that she's sixty means
Speaker 1: that she is a child. She would still look like
Speaker 1: a child. Badily Portman looks twenty five and she cures pedophilia.
Speaker 1: She's very pretty, and she's dressed in pigtails. Sure yeah,
Speaker 1: and he's like this is great. When that camera whips
Speaker 1: to reveal I was like that this is this is
Speaker 1: a stretch. I'm sorry, but this is actually this is
Speaker 1: too five. Did have that costume ready to go? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's ready to go. And then there's that moment later
Speaker 1: in the movie where he dresses up like another person
Speaker 1: and it's like surprised, like it felt very much like
Speaker 1: he's the master of disguise. It also felt like he Yeah,
Speaker 1: not only Portman's pigtail output. It felt like it was
Speaker 1: from another movie, Like I was like, oh, this is
Speaker 1: like a Hunger Game style where I was like, didn't
Speaker 1: like American Pie, Like what movie is that? I will say,
Speaker 1: I will defend the movie by saying that is an
Speaker 1: almost exact replica of the outfit that wears, but it
Speaker 1: doesn't fit the aesthetic. This graphic novel was written in
Speaker 1: the eighties. I also feel like her betraying him in
Speaker 1: that way does change the like his motive, like the
Speaker 1: way he betrays her later by like tricking her into
Speaker 1: thinking she's held prisoner, Like there is something. I don't
Speaker 1: have a strong opinion of whether that's good or bad,
Speaker 1: but it is like it's not just this. Yeah, the
Speaker 1: change of him, of her trying to betray him is like,
Speaker 1: and then it feels a little vindictive that v did
Speaker 1: this thing to her until little punishment. The fact that
Speaker 1: she did actively run away and then he captures her
Speaker 1: back and tortures her just in the abstract is gross. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you say that in those words in that order, because
Speaker 1: it also and this is why I also didn't like
Speaker 1: this choice. Is I really liked in the movie after
Speaker 1: she goes through the process of false imprisonment and shaves
Speaker 1: her head and is freed, and the rain and all
Speaker 1: that stuff is the rain is beautiful and that whole sequence.
Speaker 1: Um when she leaves on her own volition, is like,
Speaker 1: I'm what are you gonna do? You're a one to woman,
Speaker 1: and she's like, I'm not afraid anymore, and she just
Speaker 1: walks away without a real plan. Did she go? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Where does she go? I don't know where she goes?
Speaker 1: But but I but I felt like, to me, the
Speaker 1: more emotionally honest thing for her to do is to
Speaker 1: stay under v and not try to escape with the
Speaker 1: priest because she is this wanted woman and she was
Speaker 1: afraid then. So I don't know, I actually agree with
Speaker 1: you where I think a better way to have played
Speaker 1: it is that she is in on the plan. She
Speaker 1: did not prep it. She's not going to betray him
Speaker 1: with Gordon. You know, Gordon's dad dressed the way they
Speaker 1: prep that. But in the moment when she's with the priest,
Speaker 1: she has a freak ap. Yes, But then I think
Speaker 1: they could have played that a little more grounded in
Speaker 1: a way that still makes her feel like she has
Speaker 1: agency and she's a three dimensional character. But I mean
Speaker 1: to go back to what you said. When she does
Speaker 1: leave V's lair and finds in a like where did
Speaker 1: she go? How did she get that other apartment? How
Speaker 1: did she get the like cinder block bookcase that she
Speaker 1: put together? She does say fake, I D. We just
Speaker 1: don't know how she gets says fake idea and that
Speaker 1: people don't I think there's she's they said something like,
Speaker 1: oh when people people don't see me as e V anymore,
Speaker 1: I think you changed more of me than you know.
Speaker 1: Her work friend hands her her wallet and doesn't recognize her. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the logistics of it, I mean, if you live in
Speaker 1: a city long enough, you know where you can go
Speaker 1: to get a fake. I D like I know where
Speaker 1: to go in l A to get a fake. I gad,
Speaker 1: I've lived in Chica. I mean I grew up in
Speaker 1: l A. Also, so like I was a teenager, I
Speaker 1: knew where people would go to get fake. I did
Speaker 1: get a fake, I D when I was a teenager,
Speaker 1: when I was like nineteen. But I don't know where
Speaker 1: that guy is. He's I don't think I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean there are places anyway, regardless, I'm not encouraging
Speaker 1: anyone to get Where would I go to get a fake?
Speaker 1: You tell me how to do cry, Well, you go
Speaker 1: to fake? I d in my city dot org. But
Speaker 1: what I want to say my take on the priest thing,
Speaker 1: and then I want to definitely move us away from that.
Speaker 1: I don't want to harp on it too much longer.
Speaker 1: But for me, the thing about the graphic novel one
Speaker 1: six team, and she is not aware that V has
Speaker 1: killed anyone other than the Fingerman at that point. Um. Also,
Speaker 1: he didn't kill pro Throw in the graphic novel, he
Speaker 1: just made him definitely, so she in the movie she
Speaker 1: knows that he killed pro Throw. So she's like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm with a murderer, okay. And I think for me,
Speaker 1: her making that choice to try and extricate herself in
Speaker 1: this situation, like it was one thing when he was
Speaker 1: blowing up a building and like doing news broadcasts for
Speaker 1: for like a revolution, but this is a whole other level.
Speaker 1: So I need to get out. And for me, the
Speaker 1: reason that she opened the window because you asked that,
Speaker 1: and I did have to think about it. But me,
Speaker 1: for me, the reason that she opened the window is
Speaker 1: because she needs v to be able to come inside
Speaker 1: so that they can take him. So she is able
Speaker 1: to help with the capture of then she can get
Speaker 1: the amnesty that she's asking for. I'm not saying it
Speaker 1: was the best choice, but I'm saying this is how
Speaker 1: it makes sense. Makes sense. Thank you, It makes sense. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think that is very grounded that someone who has
Speaker 1: lived within a system her entire life and works for
Speaker 1: this system would not want to immediately throw that all
Speaker 1: away for a murder stranger. And she also does have
Speaker 1: the moment where she realizes that she makes the police
Speaker 1: officer the detective and she was like, why did I
Speaker 1: do that? So she she kind of has her moments
Speaker 1: of helping him. She was unwitting in the beginning. She
Speaker 1: was like, I'll just go on a walk with this
Speaker 1: man that saved me from being raped by the police,
Speaker 1: and then he blows some stuff up, and then she
Speaker 1: actually assists him with time, and then he kidnaps her
Speaker 1: and then she finds out that he used her I
Speaker 1: d to go and murder the Voice of England, So
Speaker 1: I think that there's a progression there. Oh yeah, he
Speaker 1: used her idea I forgot. I forgot about that, Karama.
Speaker 1: I'm back on board. Yeah yeah, I'm here too. Okay,
Speaker 1: I gotta really quick put my hair in pigtails and
Speaker 1: seduce the priest. I'll be back in the plot. Then
Speaker 1: she goes to stay with Gordon, which is a sequence
Speaker 1: that I genuinely love. I love I really like him
Speaker 1: as he's very funny. He's one of the characters in
Speaker 1: this who is kind of a rare character in this
Speaker 1: who seems to have a really lovely sense of humor.
Speaker 1: He makes her the eggs. What do you guys call that?
Speaker 1: In my family, we always called it hole, egg in
Speaker 1: a basket, called it hole in the eye, which doesn't
Speaker 1: make any sense. But never I have been in the basket.
Speaker 1: That sounds terrified. We called it egg in a bird's
Speaker 1: nest in my house. You no, I've never had that.
Speaker 1: Was like I saw that. I was confused by what
Speaker 1: it was like, what which really I thought? The first
Speaker 1: time that V made it, I was like, well, this
Speaker 1: is a cool dystopian breakfast to yourself. It's fun. You
Speaker 1: use like a little glass and you cut up and
Speaker 1: then it's very easy to do it. One slice of
Speaker 1: bread and one egg, okay, great and a cookie cutter
Speaker 1: fun shape if you want, what's it called hole in
Speaker 1: the Eye's family understand, could be a lot of things, okay.
Speaker 1: I also really liked the storytelling of this storyline where it's,
Speaker 1: you know, in the beginning, you think he's a creepy
Speaker 1: older man that's trying to have sex with e V
Speaker 1: and like Daddy d trick, and it's like, as soon
Speaker 1: as that was said, I'm like you, Like, I just
Speaker 1: was a meeting them, and then I saw him like
Speaker 1: that guy and then they go over and you know,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, he's actually really sweet and when
Speaker 1: is he going to be a creep And I was like, oh, no,
Speaker 1: he's not, agree and then it just became so lovely
Speaker 1: in such a sort of surprising relationship within this movie.
Speaker 1: In many ways, he's like a version of Fee that
Speaker 1: continues to operate within this society. He secret room to
Speaker 1: where he has art in the Koran and things that
Speaker 1: would get him killed if anybody found out about them,
Speaker 1: and then does unfortunately does. I did also wonder though,
Speaker 1: like did he have this secret room built first and
Speaker 1: then put the things in it? Or did he have
Speaker 1: the things and then put them in a secret room
Speaker 1: that he then had built. Like what was the progression
Speaker 1: and like, how did he explain to the contractors what
Speaker 1: he was getting got He gotta have a secret first,
Speaker 1: you don't. You don't get this stuff unless you have
Speaker 1: the secret room ready to go. That's what I'm thinking.
Speaker 1: But then what do you say to the contractors? Do
Speaker 1: you say, like, this is my play room, like you're
Speaker 1: Christian Gray, Like what's the A lot of people panic
Speaker 1: Crimson room. Yeah, I didn't even think or just make
Speaker 1: it a regular room and put a big bookshelf in
Speaker 1: front of it. Yeah. Yeah, these are things that you
Speaker 1: think about in a dystopia. You gotta prep your secret
Speaker 1: Keran room. Did we ever get a sense of what
Speaker 1: his show was like before the No. I think just
Speaker 1: like bad like Carson, Yeah, like British panel show. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like a bad version of the Graham Norton Show. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like perfect. Yeah. I love Graham Norton. I loved all
Speaker 1: the teeth. I loved all the portrayals of TV and
Speaker 1: media in this because like the reporters as well, just
Speaker 1: to like kind of tangentially but like the report, like
Speaker 1: the his reports felt very box news vibes, which like
Speaker 1: she she blinks a lot when she does a story. Yeah. Um.
Speaker 1: But I also loved and it's such a minor detail
Speaker 1: of this movie. I love the shots of people watching
Speaker 1: television in their homes because you get to see how
Speaker 1: normal their homes look. And I think a lot of
Speaker 1: people think that, you know, if we lived in the dystopia,
Speaker 1: it would look like soil and green, like everything would
Speaker 1: be terrible and falling apart. And no, their homes look
Speaker 1: really lovely, like at least one couple is some really
Speaker 1: nice built in bookshelves. It looks really pleasant and normal.
Speaker 1: And that happens right, and autocracy grows up around you
Speaker 1: and things keep looking normal for a lot of people
Speaker 1: unless you're a minority, or a reporter, or not straight
Speaker 1: or not sis, and then everything looks horrify. I think
Speaker 1: that's a really good point, And because it was connected
Speaker 1: to something that I like the change of e V
Speaker 1: having this job because she as like a young, pretty
Speaker 1: white woman, she would have a job in this society,
Speaker 1: and it does feel like she has that privilege even
Speaker 1: if and it is like comfortable for her, even if
Speaker 1: she is living in this authoritarian regime, and it does
Speaker 1: feel like in the book the options for women are
Speaker 1: a lot more limited. She has a female boss in
Speaker 1: the movie. Yeah, And that's why this feels more grounded
Speaker 1: and more relatable, especially to today, because it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: you can still have creature comforts in regimes that are
Speaker 1: very scary. And I like the choices of seeing thee
Speaker 1: like the families at home, because you don't get that
Speaker 1: in the book really, like you don't get to see
Speaker 1: the effects of like what V is doing or what
Speaker 1: EV is doing, and what essentially what the government is
Speaker 1: doing either. But I love seeing like that one scene
Speaker 1: where the young girl starts to realize that the news
Speaker 1: is then she gets up and is like bullocks, And
Speaker 1: I'm like, this is such a great tiny detail just
Speaker 1: to show that, like what he the idea that vas
Speaker 1: pushing is starting to like seep its way into people's consciousness.
Speaker 1: And I think the movie makes a very smart choice
Speaker 1: of taking the core climax of the novel, which is
Speaker 1: that V is purposely sewing chaos to tear down this
Speaker 1: totalitarian government. Sending out the masks to people is like
Speaker 1: a tangible that's very smart, where it's like, yeah, if
Speaker 1: you want to sell better than poetry, if you want
Speaker 1: to sew chaos, and he does. Don't send people weird poems,
Speaker 1: send them symbolic masks that kind of make them feel
Speaker 1: empowered to do things they maybe otherwise wouldn't. And also
Speaker 1: it makes it harder to identify him, and it makes
Speaker 1: it more like this isn't just me. I'm not the
Speaker 1: only one. Anyone who puts on this mask is a
Speaker 1: part of this. Oh yeah, and that's why I love that.
Speaker 1: Like Spider Man, I was gonna say, it's like Spider
Speaker 1: Man into the Spider Verse, anyone can wear the masks
Speaker 1: that at the newsroom where he broadcasts, and then he
Speaker 1: puts his mask and all those people. It's such a cool,
Speaker 1: um like cinematic scene. But it also how the mask
Speaker 1: shifts in the movie is like in the beginning, it's
Speaker 1: like essentially hostages are wearing these masks so that the
Speaker 1: police doesn't know who who is who, And then thousands
Speaker 1: and thousands of people are wearing these masks because they're
Speaker 1: all him, and so I feel like that's a really
Speaker 1: cool device within the movie. Another small logistic thing though,
Speaker 1: he said, like seventy mask and this is like, I guess,
Speaker 1: did you see in two thousands five when it was
Speaker 1: made for me. It was about the logistics of getting
Speaker 1: those masks, and like also just people are different sizes
Speaker 1: in their bodies. And he didn't just said masks. He
Speaker 1: also sent like caps and hand and I have a
Speaker 1: very large head. Most hats do not fit in my head.
Speaker 1: So I'm just like, where did he get all these
Speaker 1: one size fits all hats and cakes? They're like baseball
Speaker 1: hatsened by the hats. I just know that the sending
Speaker 1: out the mass, I assume that everyone just like went
Speaker 1: out and bought those tips. No, you can see the
Speaker 1: when it's open. Yeah, he said the cakes. Well, I
Speaker 1: will say there is something about this movie that I
Speaker 1: enjoy in terms like in terms of the heightening of
Speaker 1: it to make me a little bit of a superhero,
Speaker 1: like not a full superhero. And he does die, he
Speaker 1: is mortal, but like he is like those matrix he
Speaker 1: and whatever, like with the knives and the swishing swishing
Speaker 1: of the knives because in the book he is larger
Speaker 1: than life. He is like it does feel kind of
Speaker 1: like a demi god. And so it is all of
Speaker 1: these moves then feel of a piece. It's like, I
Speaker 1: believe the way you can move around a room, makes
Speaker 1: me believe you can set up those dominoes and makes
Speaker 1: me believe you couldn't figure out how to ship seventy masks.
Speaker 1: He does. They do mention in like a tiny aside
Speaker 1: that during during the experiments that subject five got heightened
Speaker 1: reflexes and like they give him superpowers and super it's
Speaker 1: a little X Man. Yeah, he's not very I liked
Speaker 1: me either. I think maybe some executive was like, he's
Speaker 1: very good at dodging knives? How did he do that?
Speaker 1: A little aside, It's like he loves and I like
Speaker 1: that in the movie. Another thing that we don't get
Speaker 1: in the book is he he loves the Count of
Speaker 1: Monte Cristo, which is just like kind of fun and
Speaker 1: for like a little personal detail, and he likes that
Speaker 1: it's romantic and its sweet. Yeah, if you get your sweet. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it makes me seem like a lot more fun to
Speaker 1: hang out with. You you can eat like anabasca, to
Speaker 1: watch a movie with. If he's always quoting Alistair Crowley
Speaker 1: at cross, I mean, I love that cat power on
Speaker 1: this jukebox practice Antony and the Johnson's I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: he's he's got a great He's got great taste in music.
Speaker 1: Practicing cat power another point in that he's getting you right, Anthony,
Speaker 1: very Anthony practicing his sword work against the night. That
Speaker 1: armor is adorable, adorable, while quoting the movie at the
Speaker 1: same time pretty cute. I mean, that's afraid of that guy.
Speaker 1: This V is so great, And this V to me
Speaker 1: gets the ending that I wanted in the book, which
Speaker 1: is like he shows up to a to a situation
Speaker 1: that he will not win. Obviously, it's like all of
Speaker 1: Prothero's men, and so to have him like take all
Speaker 1: these bullets and then be like, Okay, now my turn,
Speaker 1: I was like, this, this is the ending that I
Speaker 1: wanted for him. Yeah, he gets to hear and I
Speaker 1: forgot this is the first time you've seen the movie
Speaker 1: because I was waiting for them my turn, and like
Speaker 1: waiting I wish I could experience that the first time again.
Speaker 1: He's like him describing how he was going to kill Creedy.
Speaker 1: It was so fun, and it was like exactly because
Speaker 1: I'm so used to watching like superhero superhero movies where
Speaker 1: they actually can't die, and so it is so fun
Speaker 1: to see him have these like cool higher level moves.
Speaker 1: But then he is still a mortal man, Like that
Speaker 1: is what was so satisfying about it to me, Yeah,
Speaker 1: two things. One, I the scene where he's like, this
Speaker 1: is how I'm going to kill you reminded me of
Speaker 1: the scene in Charlie's Angels the film where Drew Barrymore's
Speaker 1: character is like, I'm gonna tackle all of you and
Speaker 1: then I'm gonna moon walk out of here. And then
Speaker 1: she does it, and I'm just like, I love when
Speaker 1: you set up a goal, a hypothesis and then use
Speaker 1: alved it with your experiment. It's like that there and
Speaker 1: that scene which you were like, yeah, it's the ending
Speaker 1: I wanted. I totally agreed. And it also to me
Speaker 1: felt like the best example of the screenwriters taking an
Speaker 1: element from the book and then translating it into being
Speaker 1: satisfied where what they took was like, what VI's plan
Speaker 1: was is he knows that in this system there's going
Speaker 1: to be backstabbing and discord among the party members. But
Speaker 1: rather than do this like weird elaborate puppet master ruse
Speaker 1: that wouldn't make sense, he literally goes to Creedy, sets
Speaker 1: up this backstab, and then reaps the results like we
Speaker 1: see the cause and effect in a very clear way,
Speaker 1: where even though the pieces are the same as they
Speaker 1: were in the book and the point is the same,
Speaker 1: the cause and effect is much cleaner, much clearer. And
Speaker 1: then we get this fun moment which we get a
Speaker 1: dramatic death. Yeah, I love the creaty does not understand
Speaker 1: the oncept the bullet froof bulletproof best, just like why
Speaker 1: are you dying? Also the best if I mean, I've
Speaker 1: knock on wood, never gotten hit by one. They would
Speaker 1: knock you down. They don't stop. They stopped you from dying,
Speaker 1: but they also you'll like be bleeding or bruised. Right, No,
Speaker 1: it wasn't perfect. But also he was like, but I
Speaker 1: don't understand how you are still alive, And I'm like,
Speaker 1: it's clearly a bullet proof situated. You are a cop.
Speaker 1: You should know me. I mean that ending too, of
Speaker 1: having Um the High Chancellor being killed by Creedy felt
Speaker 1: really satisfying too, instead of I mean, I know they
Speaker 1: intentionally streamed blind Rosemary out and Helen Higher out of this,
Speaker 1: and I think it. I think it worked. I think
Speaker 1: the addition of the good reason, I think for good reason. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: the problem in this dystopia is not the patriarchy and
Speaker 1: I do feel like that's different the book, where, yeah,
Speaker 1: the powerlessness of women in that society is a big
Speaker 1: part of the book. Yeah, so like not having those
Speaker 1: two I think was again a great a great choice
Speaker 1: on the on the Wachowski sisters to like not add
Speaker 1: any more extra extraneous stuff just to honor the book.
Speaker 1: I thought that was a great choice. And the only
Speaker 1: time we even get the other body parts of the
Speaker 1: Norse Fire Party are during like when Adam h his
Speaker 1: name is it's not Adam Susan, Adam Sutler and this
Speaker 1: they made it sound more like, oh oh, I didn't
Speaker 1: think about that, but yeah they did. I read that
Speaker 1: on IMDb. That was not an organic realization. I thought
Speaker 1: they were just like the last name Susan, that's yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I thought the same thing where they were like it's
Speaker 1: sort of weird. But I was saying, there's like the
Speaker 1: the only time we get like, um, that's the names
Speaker 1: like Dascom and Etherd just he's like Bethridge, how are
Speaker 1: things at the year you know that I could say.
Speaker 1: The only thing about the ending that was a little
Speaker 1: unbelievable was well, little tiny Natalie Porman being able to
Speaker 1: pick up the like she did. She was not working out,
Speaker 1: she didn't do foreshadowing of strength being used. Can I
Speaker 1: pick up the Bleeding Man? Last week? I promised that
Speaker 1: there was more I wanted to say about the destruction
Speaker 1: and creation two sides of anarchy, And I think that
Speaker 1: we get this lovely scene where Evie is like God
Speaker 1: is in the rain, and she's gone out to the
Speaker 1: rain to sort of like have her renaissance moment literally
Speaker 1: rebirth moment um. But they enter they like intersplice it
Speaker 1: with the scenes of the coming out from the fire
Speaker 1: and fires used to destroy and rain is used to create.
Speaker 1: And I thought that was really interesting. There we go
Speaker 1: said the moment. I was just going to say. Then
Speaker 1: the end where he gives her the choice to pull
Speaker 1: the I think it's great because you know, the choice
Speaker 1: should be to the people. What I didn't love was
Speaker 1: m I don't mind a kiss. I think a kiss
Speaker 1: to a mask can be sweet and can be earnest.
Speaker 1: I didn't love the I love you. We don't need
Speaker 1: them to love you can okay, But Valerie loves everyone
Speaker 1: like I think the movie and the kids they don't,
Speaker 1: they don't play it. I would have That's why I
Speaker 1: was okay with the kids. I kissed to me would
Speaker 1: have played like a Valerie love but the way they
Speaker 1: play it feels like a play it as a love story,
Speaker 1: especially like that moment when he when Evie leaves and
Speaker 1: he is left alone and he like throws his mask
Speaker 1: and cries. It's like Beauty and the Beast. It's very
Speaker 1: Beauty and the Beast where he's like, I just wanted
Speaker 1: to see your face one last time. That's like a
Speaker 1: line actually out of Beauty and the Beast. And he's like,
Speaker 1: I promise, I promised, too good mess and make it
Speaker 1: like a little weirder, I promise. He really does such
Speaker 1: a good job of bringing life to that mask. Like
Speaker 1: I know we joke around like the Juggle, but like
Speaker 1: he really did. He's very expressive, crazy, he's clicking his
Speaker 1: hair around all the time. And also what's wild to
Speaker 1: me is that the whole all of his audio was
Speaker 1: done in post. Oh we didn't know that. That's so cool.
Speaker 1: I mean, he was saying things while he was there.
Speaker 1: Obviously he wasn't like miming, but they had to redo
Speaker 1: everything in post and so it was a great physical
Speaker 1: performance and then a great voiceover perform and then voice
Speaker 1: over a little bit that was from the first guy.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, could you tell could tell I was looking?
Speaker 1: I think it would. I think they probably just used
Speaker 1: it for like like fill our shot, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, like some basic shots that they couldn't read. Well. No,
Speaker 1: he worked for like six weeks before were he like,
Speaker 1: but we don't know what they saved and what they
Speaker 1: didn't they you know, call it Eric Stoltz worked for
Speaker 1: six weeks on Back to the Future before they fired him. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: in her it wasn't supposed to be Scarlett Johansson. It
Speaker 1: was someone else, Samantha Mors, Samantha Morton, and they were
Speaker 1: like all of Joaquin Phoenix's um acting is against Samantha Morton.
Speaker 1: Oh that's very interesting. I didn't know that. A lot
Speaker 1: of fun voice over and casting facts that we're getting here. Um,
Speaker 1: what was I going to say? I do think this
Speaker 1: is This is the one time where I was like,
Speaker 1: I think this is that other dude the scene where
Speaker 1: it's the show within the Yeah, I was like, I
Speaker 1: think it's that other guy there where he's being he's
Speaker 1: like being a little scamp and he's got his little
Speaker 1: I think it's neither I think it's just a rand
Speaker 1: him guy. You think that was just like a bubble. Well,
Speaker 1: I also think what's interesting about this is like he
Speaker 1: did such a good job with it, but it also
Speaker 1: is a character that lends itself to such great physicality
Speaker 1: because this character is so theatrical and like so there
Speaker 1: is so much body movement. I think about in comparison
Speaker 1: The Mandalorian, where I get very frustrated with that show
Speaker 1: because it's just like Pedro pascal is behind that mask.
Speaker 1: Why can't we just see Pedro pascal um And it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: there's just a lead character that gives us nothing. But
Speaker 1: that's because it's a stoic man behind a mask and
Speaker 1: that's boring. But a theatrical man behind a mask is great. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he like flips his hair like an anime character all
Speaker 1: the time. Very fun. Love it stars to come out,
Speaker 1: It's great. I love the hair. Also. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I always really enjoyed the like help me to I'm Chic,
Speaker 1: I work I work close from Chico. I really loved
Speaker 1: the Shadow Gallery. I thought it was like better than
Speaker 1: I could have imagined. And I feel like whatever location
Speaker 1: that was was so cool. It wasn't like I was.
Speaker 1: I guess since this two thousand five, it wouldn't have
Speaker 1: been as but like nowadays, that probably would have been
Speaker 1: some kind of green screened situation of some like magical
Speaker 1: sort of place. But I like that it just felt
Speaker 1: like a real um cool, old English uh built it.
Speaker 1: It also to me feels much more um homy and
Speaker 1: exciting than the shadow gallery that we get in the book,
Speaker 1: which like I can't picture its dimensions, but the shadow
Speaker 1: gallery in the movie, like I want to listen to.
Speaker 1: They just invent new dimensions. In the third book, did
Speaker 1: you know there was an elevator here? Well here it is?
Speaker 1: Uh yeah. In the end, I think Creedy's journey, which
Speaker 1: doesn't involve LSD, but he still figures out he somehow
Speaker 1: without LSD figures out where uh these hideout is sorry,
Speaker 1: not creaty Jesus Christ. Uh uh, Finch figures it out
Speaker 1: even without l s D gets there. But let's e
Speaker 1: v pull it because at this point he had come
Speaker 1: on this journey and realized that this government needed to fall,
Speaker 1: and I think that that is a very hopeful and
Speaker 1: cathartic moment. And then it's paired with this tear jerker
Speaker 1: of a finale. Yeah, I think what I like the
Speaker 1: best is that the shots of Gordon and Valerie and
Speaker 1: the audience are so fast it doesn't it doesn't make it,
Speaker 1: you know, it doesn't condescend, yes, and it does blend
Speaker 1: them with the other people that we've been watching watch television,
Speaker 1: the family, the little girl. Like I think that's really yeah,
Speaker 1: what you were saying, we never talked about the little Yes.
Speaker 1: Uh she be describes it in voiceover or someone else
Speaker 1: does that with all this like finished does that with
Speaker 1: all this chaos, someone is going to do something and
Speaker 1: people are going to boil over. And what happens is
Speaker 1: this girl wearing a v mask is spray painting and
Speaker 1: upside down anarchy symbol which I obviously immediately recognized. If
Speaker 1: the vehiclego and uh, he shoots her, he's a plain
Speaker 1: clothes finger minute turns out, but the crowd is furious,
Speaker 1: and the crowd moves on him in a way that
Speaker 1: shows that everyday people are rising up against the government.
Speaker 1: And uh, yeah, I'm just gonna say, I think when
Speaker 1: um policeman shoot unarmed young people, people absolutely should rise
Speaker 1: up against them. I mean, I think it's also it
Speaker 1: was a very hopeful ending that like all of the
Speaker 1: folks in the v masks are walking towards like the
Speaker 1: wall of military men and they put their guns down,
Speaker 1: and I was like, this is such a hopeful choice,
Speaker 1: but it's seeing but it's the orchestrated because all the
Speaker 1: hierarchy are all dead, can't follow orders, Like it's like
Speaker 1: they're just there. I was just following orders people, but
Speaker 1: there are no orders. So it's because they're like what
Speaker 1: They're like, Adam Seller is not coming through and there
Speaker 1: will go to Creating and they're like, Creating is not
Speaker 1: coming through, you know, like it's like he figured out
Speaker 1: the system where it's like with no orders to obey.
Speaker 1: They just were like, oh we don't. It's like toys
Speaker 1: without anyone to play with. I mean, I still think
Speaker 1: it's a very hopeful. Yeah, it's very optimistic. I want
Speaker 1: to go back to the young woman who died um.
Speaker 1: I think that it's really interesting. In the news reports
Speaker 1: after that, they talk about riots in Brixton and and
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't know a lot about England,
Speaker 1: clearly because I asked the other day, like in one
Speaker 1: of our previous recording sessions, does England have just the bbs,
Speaker 1: so clearly not very in the note about England. So
Speaker 1: I looked up more about Brixton because it's a place
Speaker 1: I had heard of in like grime music. I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: Brixton blah blah blah blah blah. Like I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: I don't know what that means. So, and Brixton was
Speaker 1: actually the site of riots in the eighties, So I
Speaker 1: thought that was a really interesting nod to the origins
Speaker 1: of the story. Look at that, right, I learned that.
Speaker 1: Thank you. Yeah. I think where the book, you know,
Speaker 1: Ellen Moore was mad that they, you know, didn't make
Speaker 1: it specifically about Margaret Thatcher and anarchy. I think that
Speaker 1: it the movie working so well and resonating so well,
Speaker 1: I do think speaks to the universality of the themes
Speaker 1: and it is it feels very weird that an author
Speaker 1: wouldn't be like excited about that. I think it's so
Speaker 1: it's cratchy. It also seems like we're talking it seems
Speaker 1: like an author that is too precious with their work.
Speaker 1: That's what I mean what it comes down to, because
Speaker 1: we're talking about all the changes that we really like
Speaker 1: that we felt like made the story better, and I
Speaker 1: feel like for Allen Moore, it's basically like every every
Speaker 1: change is a comment and a criticism on his work.
Speaker 1: I would assume, is I mean, you're allowed to feel
Speaker 1: that way, Like there are lots of writers who don't
Speaker 1: want to watch movie adaptations off their work because they
Speaker 1: just want it. That's fine. Yeah, taking his name, for
Speaker 1: taking his name on so much and vocal about it,
Speaker 1: and you're like, I don't I hate it. I wonder
Speaker 1: what he thinks of the current Watchman because I I
Speaker 1: think he probably likes it more. I bet not. I
Speaker 1: bet like this is a good movie, yeah, the show
Speaker 1: or the movie the show I'm talking about the show,
Speaker 1: which is also good to go, Yeah, the movie of
Speaker 1: the movie is bad, but this is a good movie
Speaker 1: and he hates it, which leads me to believe that,
Speaker 1: like the Watchman TV show is so good, but probably
Speaker 1: Alan Moore and he's like where the Wizard Cave is like,
Speaker 1: but in my imagine sequel it goes like this, Like
Speaker 1: he doesn't seem like someone who can let go of
Speaker 1: his characters. It's just his right and he's still letting
Speaker 1: them make It's like he's like, if the people want
Speaker 1: this thing. I'll let them have it, but I'm not
Speaker 1: going to say that I condone it. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: it's kind of funny. I like the I like the
Speaker 1: quirkiness of it. And it's like, oh, Alan Moore, you're
Speaker 1: just like letting these kids run around with their books.
Speaker 1: Be like, I, oh, those stupid kids have it frimas. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So yeah, Alan Moore has said he wants nothing to
Speaker 1: do with HBO stand Watchman's love that for him. That's
Speaker 1: that's I was ready to let him be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: people like this, this is cool, but he's He's consistent
Speaker 1: if nothing else except for from hell he loves Stopwatch.
Speaker 1: Really really, we were like, wow, Helen Whore is happy.
Speaker 1: We just want him to be happy with something. But question, So,
Speaker 1: this movie was made in two thousand five, a thing
Speaker 1: that we have said multiple times. But my question is
Speaker 1: the world now is very noticeably different than it was
Speaker 1: in two thousand five, and arguably two thousand five is
Speaker 1: more similar in the way that the world was to
Speaker 1: the nineteen eighties when when we forbid that it was written,
Speaker 1: then two five is to now. Even so, if this
Speaker 1: movie were to be made today, how do you think
Speaker 1: it would be different? Like are there things that you're like, Oh,
Speaker 1: there's no way this would fly in an adaptation today,
Speaker 1: or this feels very dated, Like I'm curious about like
Speaker 1: looking at this in for some of you, having seen
Speaker 1: it for the first time, how that feels. Okay, I
Speaker 1: saw this in theaters and I don't remember people thinking
Speaker 1: it was a hyper political statement. Um, like maybe they did. Um,
Speaker 1: but there are so many alright, guys who have a
Speaker 1: profile picture of v for Vendetta. Um, so apparently there
Speaker 1: was a way to like watch this movie and be
Speaker 1: like I love Donald Trump Andrey for Vendetta, and I
Speaker 1: don't know how those two things fit together in your break.
Speaker 1: I mean, I was gonna say, I think that it
Speaker 1: probably will be adapted again very soon, and it will
Speaker 1: be a limited series for HBO. Like I think this
Speaker 1: kind of movie if they were made now, I think
Speaker 1: most of these kinds of like big idea movies are
Speaker 1: now limited series or or several or like Hyman's Tale Washman,
Speaker 1: and I think they would include all of the other characters.
Speaker 1: I think they wouldn't include Rosemary and Helen Higher And
Speaker 1: they would be all of these um different sort of
Speaker 1: storylines wrapping together and uh and it would probably add
Speaker 1: more story than it would subtract. Think it would be
Speaker 1: also dark as hell, like I can imagine that it
Speaker 1: would be. The adaptation for this in Your in the
Speaker 1: limited mini series would be like very bleak given what
Speaker 1: we're experiencing, right, I think we are going to get
Speaker 1: a sad cabaret if they love I feel like a
Speaker 1: prestige drama loves like sad sexualization, like when it can
Speaker 1: something can be both very sexy and very sad. Yes
Speaker 1: atab oh yeah, West World, or I think of Natalie
Speaker 1: Portman in Closer, um yeah, where she's like, oh, lying
Speaker 1: is the most fun a girl can have without taking
Speaker 1: her clothes off, but it's better if you do. Obviously
Speaker 1: that was a play first, great adaptation. I love that
Speaker 1: movie up and also if it were made into an
Speaker 1: HBO limited series, Alan Moore would want nothing to do.
Speaker 1: That's the one thing we go through line Taylor's all
Speaker 1: this time. The thing that very famously happened was Natalie
Speaker 1: Portman actually shaved her head and that was the real
Speaker 1: footage that they used. I just kept thinking, like what
Speaker 1: if they fucked up? Like she has to be crying
Speaker 1: for that, and I was just like, oh, my god,
Speaker 1: they only get one shot. I know entertainment baby hadn't
Speaker 1: seen that clip in pop culture, just like reused over
Speaker 1: and over and over again. To see it in the film,
Speaker 1: I will say it made me laugh. I know that
Speaker 1: will not the intended purpose and that he had like
Speaker 1: having yeah, just having seen this like crying Natalie Portman,
Speaker 1: and then it did not have the effect that I
Speaker 1: think it would have had if I had not seen
Speaker 1: all the other crying Natalie Portman's that's kind of the
Speaker 1: danger with seeing media, not danger, but kind of the
Speaker 1: collateral damage of seeing media later than it actually, like
Speaker 1: later than immediately, because we memify and like make things
Speaker 1: into gifts so quickly and turn them into something else.
Speaker 1: And like, I haven't seen Marriage Story. I never will
Speaker 1: watch Marriage Story, but that scene where um Adam driver
Speaker 1: punches a wall has just been I'm not going to
Speaker 1: take it seriously if I watch the movie. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: is better than the meme. The meme made me not
Speaker 1: want to watch the movie because I'm like, there's a
Speaker 1: dumb movie. And then I was like, oh, it's actually
Speaker 1: much better than that, right, and things are better in context.
Speaker 1: But something I wanted to say about the shaving scene.
Speaker 1: Is that it's like in The Four year Old Virgin
Speaker 1: when they need to do the waxing scene. They really
Speaker 1: did that to Steve Carrell, and they had one shot
Speaker 1: because you cannot fook waxing, Like I mean, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of those one shot things you know, done in
Speaker 1: certain movies, and it is I feel like everything comes
Speaker 1: down to camera focus. It's like, because that's a lot
Speaker 1: of the time why things get you know, they need
Speaker 1: to go again as you know, it's actually depending on
Speaker 1: the director, but like acting comes last to it usually,
Speaker 1: and it would I would just laugh so much if
Speaker 1: it's like they did the scene she was cropped full
Speaker 1: crying shaved. It's like, oh god, we're yeah, we're a
Speaker 1: little soft on the focus cameras. They used three cameras
Speaker 1: for that makes sense. One one has to get them. Yeah. Um,
Speaker 1: So before we wrap, any final notes on be for
Speaker 1: Vendetta the film A plus adaptation good, really enjoyed it.
Speaker 1: Would suggest it to all friends the best adaptation of
Speaker 1: the ones that we've watched. I would say, yes. I
Speaker 1: mentioned last week there are a small handful of films
Speaker 1: that I think are better than the books they're based on.
Speaker 1: The Vendetta I think is one of them. Fight Club
Speaker 1: is another, and it's a it's a pretty small list.
Speaker 1: And then there's a very very short list. I e.
Speaker 1: One film that is exactly true to the book. They're
Speaker 1: exactly the same, and that is Holes. Holes is a
Speaker 1: perfect adaptation. I've said it before, I think I said it.
Speaker 1: We were talking about like normal people, you'll have not
Speaker 1: seen Holes and read the book. It is perfect. Like
Speaker 1: I will not I will die on that hill, I
Speaker 1: will die in that hole. Um well, on that note,
Speaker 1: I've been wanting to say van Archy in the UK
Speaker 1: this whole time and have now found a reason to say,
Speaker 1: oh no, perfect but Vanarchy in the UK. That's our
Speaker 1: show for the week. Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 1: I'm Danish Schwartz and you can find me on Twitter
Speaker 1: at Danis Schwartz with three z s. You can follow
Speaker 1: Jennifer Wright at jenn and Ashley Wright Karama, Donqua is
Speaker 1: at Karama Drama, Melissa Hunter is at Melissa f t
Speaker 1: W and Tan Tran is smart enough to have gotten
Speaker 1: off Twitter, but she is on Insta at Hank Tina.
Speaker 1: Our executive producer is Christopher Hessiotes were produced and edited
Speaker 1: by Mike Johns special thanks to David Wasserman. Popcorn Book
Speaker 1: Club is a production of I Heart Radio