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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here

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Speaker 1: and we here at Breaking Points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff, give you, guys, the best independent.

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Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support.

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Speaker 4: But enough with that, let's get to the show.

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Speaker 5: All right, Good morning, and welcome to Breaking Points. Saga

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Speaker 5: is out today. Emily couldn't be here and so here

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Speaker 5: I am joined by Crystal Ball.

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Speaker 3: Crystal, how are you doing.

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Speaker 4: I'm doing good.

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Speaker 1: Little lefty takeover of Breaking Points appropriate.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, we're going to talk about the DNC, and so

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Speaker 5: I think people will benefit from the lefty takeover.

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Speaker 1: I mean, lefty takeover, in my opinion, is always appropriate.

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Speaker 1: That's always the right move.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So, as you mentioned, we're going to do a bunch

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Speaker 1: of promoing of the DNZ or previewing of the DNZ.

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Speaker 1: We're actually going to be on the ground, all of

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Speaker 1: us there. It's part of why we wanted to make

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Speaker 1: sure Saga rested it up. He is ready for that

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Speaker 1: trip and We've got a bunch of new polls we're

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Speaker 1: going to dig into from some interesting states and some

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Speaker 1: Tim Wall's approval ratings. We want to take a look

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Speaker 1: at see how he's doing with the people. We have

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Speaker 1: both candidates talking about the economy. Kamala Harris issuing her

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Speaker 1: very first policy pronouncements expected what is that happening Friday?

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Speaker 4: I think she's given that speech.

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Speaker 5: That sounds right, Yeah, first one. That's not a reversal

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Speaker 5: of her past positions exactly.

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Speaker 1: She's gone from backtracking to now we may actually lay

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Speaker 1: some groundwork in terms of what she might actually do.

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Speaker 1: We've got some grumblings from the right, including Megan Kelly

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Speaker 1: and Candice Owen's about Trump and his team and how

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Speaker 1: his campaign is going. We've got the media deciding not

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Speaker 1: to publish any of the hacked Trump campaign documents obviously

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Speaker 1: start contrast with how they handled twenty sixteen. So I'm

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Speaker 1: particularly interested to hear Ryan's perspective on that. We've got

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Speaker 1: Maddi Hothlan coming in. He's got a documentary about the

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Speaker 1: absolute horrors that are being perpetrated in Gaza, so looking

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Speaker 1: forward to speaking with him about that. And Ryan's we

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Speaker 1: got a little Ryan Special. He's taken a look at

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Speaker 1: MDMA therapy set had a major setback at the FTA.

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Speaker 1: And you've got two different experts coming in to talk

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Speaker 1: about this, right Ryan.

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Speaker 5: Yes, both of them actually have been heavily involved in

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Speaker 5: the decision that the FDA released recently not to move

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Speaker 5: forward with legalizing it for medical purposes. So kind of

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Speaker 5: a mess complicated, and we'll talk to them. They disagree

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Speaker 5: pretty strongly about which direction ago, and both of them

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Speaker 5: played a kind of leading role.

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Speaker 3: In this mess.

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So it's interesting because they're both advocates for the therapy,

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Speaker 1: but they had very different views about what they wanted

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Speaker 1: the federal government approach to be. So I'm looking forward

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Speaker 1: to watching that one personally and hearing what the different

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Speaker 1: perspectives are there. But let's go ahead and get to

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Speaker 1: the first block here. As we mentioned, the DNC is

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Speaker 1: starting next week. It's easy to forget because everything just

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Speaker 1: happened so fast, and it feels like a million years

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Speaker 1: ago at this point that Joe by and dropped out

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Speaker 1: of the race. But this is quite an unusual situation

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Speaker 1: where you know, just a couple of months ago, we

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Speaker 1: thought it was going to be a different guy who

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Speaker 1: was being coordinated at the DNC. Now we've got Kamala

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Speaker 1: Harris and Tim Walls as I mentioned before, and can

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Speaker 1: put this up on the screen. All four of us

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Speaker 1: are going to be on the ground in Chicago there

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Speaker 1: we are look at that exciting group of people. So

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Speaker 1: just so you guys know the timing of the shows,

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Speaker 1: because you know, most of the action of the DNC

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Speaker 1: is in the evening, so timing of the shows and

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Speaker 1: the structure of the shows all that's going to be

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Speaker 1: a little bit different next week. But as always, if

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Speaker 1: you are able to support us, you know, these sorts

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Speaker 1: of things are expensive, but I think also add a

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Speaker 1: lot to what you guys get out of the product

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Speaker 1: Breakingpoints dot com if you can become a premium subscriber.

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Speaker 1: Let's go ahead and take a look at what we

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Speaker 1: are expecting there. In terms of the speaker lineup, we

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Speaker 1: can put this up on the screen.

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Speaker 4: From NBC News.

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden, former President's Barack Obama, Bill Clinton, former Secretary

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Speaker 1: of State Hillary Clinton all confirmed as speakers. You're also

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Speaker 1: going to have President Jimmy Carter's grandson Jason Carter, who's

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Speaker 1: going to be confirmed to be speaking as a representative

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Speaker 1: for his grandfather. I know you've also got you know,

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Speaker 1: Pete Boutagig and some of the other sort of leading

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Speaker 1: luminaries of the Democratic Party that are going to be

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Speaker 1: there and have speaking slots as well. And we got

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a preview of what the speaker

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Speaker 1: lineup is going to be in terms of their order.

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Speaker 4: We can put this up on the screen.

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Speaker 1: This is kind of noteworthy because they've got Joe Biden

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Speaker 1: buried in a not so great speaking slot time on Monday.

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Speaker 1: Actually Hillary Clinton got a better speaking slot than he did.

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Speaker 1: Then you've got Obama on Tuesday, former President Bill Clinton Wednesday,

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Speaker 1: Kamala Harris Thursday, Walls Wednesday as per customs. So that's

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a sketch of what we're looking

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Speaker 1: at for next week.

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Speaker 5: Ran And the controversy that the kind of White House

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Speaker 5: Press Corps is trying to gin up a little bit

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Speaker 5: is is about whether or not Biden is going to

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Speaker 5: actually stay for the convention, and it appears that he's

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Speaker 5: not like that. Those are the indications that we're getting

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Speaker 5: so far that he's going to give a probably a

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Speaker 5: pretty short speech Monday and then take his ball and

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Speaker 5: go back to Washington and continue being the president for

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Speaker 5: another couple couple of months. They're also jetting up this

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Speaker 5: controversy between Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden, like have these

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Speaker 5: long term friends have they fallen out over? You know,

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Speaker 5: Nancy Pelosi leading this this kind of soft coup to

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Speaker 5: get this guy off the ticket. And as I've been

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Speaker 5: following this, I've been thinking, are we supposed to really

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Speaker 5: care whether or not these two people in their mid

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Speaker 5: eighties are going.

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Speaker 4: To be friends for the rest.

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Speaker 3: Of their lives.

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Speaker 5: But more fundamentally, Biden doesn't really have a base, which

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Speaker 5: is exposed by this whole contra whole non non controversy,

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Speaker 5: Like he never developed like a Bernie Sanders style following

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Speaker 5: or an Obama style following over the course of his career,

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Speaker 5: such that if he gets slighted by a speaking gig

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Speaker 5: on Monday, all the Bidens are going to be furious

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Speaker 5: about it. Biden was always just a stand in for

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Speaker 5: the party, and that's what he was as president, And

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Speaker 5: now that he's no longer kind of connected to the party,

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Speaker 5: I don't think there's going to be anybody who's willing

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Speaker 5: to even be like publicly upset about the fact that

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Speaker 5: he's getting snubbed.

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Speaker 1: Not at all, not at all, And you alluded to

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Speaker 1: the palace intrigue. We can put this up on the screen,

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Speaker 1: this tear sheet, that's what you're talking about. So you've

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Speaker 1: got Joe Biden set to snub Barack Obama and Kamala

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Speaker 1: Harris speeches at the DNC. And you know, is it

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Speaker 1: a snub or is he an old man who doesn't

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Speaker 1: really want to be there the whole time?

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Speaker 4: While I mean, I wouldn't write, I wouldn't want to

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Speaker 4: be the whole time. This was supposed to be your party.

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Speaker 4: It's no longer your party.

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Speaker 3: You can't yes if you have any pride whatsoever.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean on a personal level.

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Speaker 1: And so I do find the the Nancy Pelosi Biden thing.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I find her interesting as a character, the

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Speaker 1: way she clearly is the one person the Democratic Party

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Speaker 1: really understands and is willing to wield power. And then

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Speaker 1: the tense, strange relationship between Biden and Obama has also

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Speaker 1: always been interesting because of their very contrasting political styles.

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Speaker 1: Biden always had this sort of chip on his shoulder

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Speaker 1: about you know, Obama looking down his nose at him.

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Speaker 1: Here's Obama, the Ivy League educated blah blah blah, professorial

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Speaker 1: do like getting his hands dirty and the rough and

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Speaker 1: tumble of politics. Joe Biden polar opposite. You know, his

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Speaker 1: thing was always having the relationships and getting in there

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Speaker 1: and glad handling and all of that sort of stuff. So,

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Speaker 1: but I think you're right about the about how much

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Speaker 1: the media fixates on this sort of thing versus, you know,

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Speaker 1: any of the more substance of questions, which we're going

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Speaker 1: to get to later about the policy and what any

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Speaker 1: of this actually means and what any of these candidates

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Speaker 1: are actually promising the American people. We can go ahead

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Speaker 1: and put this next piece up on the screen here,

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Speaker 1: which gives some more intel about what the week is

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Speaker 1: going to look like. This is kind of an attempt

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Speaker 1: at a show of force here, Harrison Walls planning a

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Speaker 1: rally in Milwaukee at the very same spot that Trump

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Speaker 1: recently held a rally, and they're going to do it

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Speaker 1: during the Democratic Convention, so not during the primetime speeches.

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Speaker 1: But this is an attempt to show, hey, we can

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Speaker 1: put on two big events at the same time. We've

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Speaker 1: got so much enthusiasm that we can not only pack

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Speaker 1: the House, of course at the DNC, but we can

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Speaker 1: pack the house at this large arena that Trump was

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Speaker 1: just speaking at, so trying to make sort of a

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Speaker 1: point about how big and popular the campaign is at

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Speaker 1: this point.

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Speaker 5: Right and at the same time, we can put up

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Speaker 5: this next element. Organizers are expecting upwards of one hundred

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Speaker 5: thousand Propouseitian protesters to show up at the DNC, which

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Speaker 5: if they can actually deliver on that number, and I

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Speaker 5: suspect that they may be able to, I know personally

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Speaker 5: have a lot of people who are planning ongoing, that's

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Speaker 5: going to be an incredible show force. And it's truly

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Speaker 5: remarkable that that it's coinciding with these ceasefire talks that

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Speaker 5: are getting underway and Cairo and Doha, you know today,

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Speaker 5: like just as we speak, the mediators are getting together

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Speaker 5: and everybody just trying to push Israel to accept the

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Speaker 5: deal that Israel already accepted. And we talked about this

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Speaker 5: on the show yesterday, but Iran is basically publicly saying

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Speaker 5: that if Israel will cut a ceasefire deal, basically accept

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Speaker 5: the deal they already put forward, then Iran will not

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Speaker 5: retaliate against them. So they have they could have a

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Speaker 5: ceasefire deal with hamas they could avert a strike from Iran,

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Speaker 5: and all they have to do is agree to the

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Speaker 5: deal they already agreed to. And it's all happening while

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Speaker 5: the Democratic Convention is unfolding amid a backdrop of potentially

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Speaker 5: one hundred thousand people in the streets, and yet everybody

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Speaker 5: seems to think that Israel is going to say no

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Speaker 5: to this deal. Do you have any optimism that next

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Speaker 5: week we'll be talking about the implementation of a coming

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Speaker 5: cease fire deal.

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Speaker 1: No, I mean, I think you'd be a fool at

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Speaker 1: this point, given how many times we've been to this show,

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Speaker 1: to have real significant optimism here and listen, if it's

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Speaker 1: left in the hands of bb Net Yahoo, I don't

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Speaker 1: think there's any doubt what direction we're going. And the

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Speaker 1: only thing that could change that is if Joe Biden

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Speaker 1: actually decided, Hey, we're going to basically force you to

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Speaker 1: take this and by using the leverage that we have,

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Speaker 1: and of course there's zero indication that he's willing to

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Speaker 1: do anything other than you know, once again leaked to

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Speaker 1: Barock revied how upset he is about how they're going, Like,

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Speaker 1: I think that's the most that we could expect. But

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Speaker 1: the polling is also at this point really quite clear.

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Speaker 1: We have medi jasad On later in his outfit Zeteo,

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Speaker 1: they did some polling showing that this is a significant

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Speaker 1: electoral issue for quite a large chunk of Democrats and

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Speaker 1: independence and that there is nothing but political benefit to

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Speaker 1: be gained from actually obtaining and achieving a ceasefire. You know,

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Speaker 1: bb obviously he not only wants to run out of

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Speaker 1: the clock, he wants to drag us into this larger war,

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Speaker 1: which is something he's wanted, you know, is to get

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Speaker 1: us more directly involved in some direct conflict with the

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Speaker 1: run for a long time. That would be a disaster

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Speaker 1: on every level, on a humanitarian level, on an American

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Speaker 1: political interest level, it would be a disaster for Kamala

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Speaker 1: Harris's campaign on a political level. Those are all and

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Speaker 1: those are all things that he, you know, he hopes for.

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Speaker 1: He wants Trump to be back in the White House.

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Speaker 1: So if it's bad news for Joe Biden, the Democrats,

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Speaker 1: and Kamala Harris, that's a positive thing for BB net Yahoo.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, the only way that I think that we're

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Speaker 1: talking about the implementation of a ceasfire deal and what

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Speaker 1: comes after and what you know, the potential prospects for

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Speaker 1: a longer term, more lasting and just peace might be

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Speaker 1: is if Biden actually had some sort of you know,

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Speaker 1: awakening and decided to use leverage in a way that

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Speaker 1: there is just no indication. But if you're Kamala Harris

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Speaker 1: behind the scenes, whatever leverage she have, which I don't has,

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Speaker 1: which I don't think she has much power in that

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Speaker 1: White House. I don't think she's ever had much power

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Speaker 1: in that White House. The best thing she could do

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Speaker 1: politically for herself would be to press and push Joe

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Speaker 1: Biden and his team to put that kind of pressure

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Speaker 1: on NETANYAHUO to achieve the ceasefire deal, because those protesters, will,

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Speaker 1: you know, are a visible reminder of one of the

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Speaker 1: biggest political problems that she that she has and one

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Speaker 1: of the most difficult situations that she has to resolve. Because,

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Speaker 1: you know, Ryan, I'm curious your thoughts on this. I

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Speaker 1: was on Majority Report last week and Sam was asking

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Speaker 1: me this question of Okay, but you know, she's the

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Speaker 1: vice president, like, how far can she really distance herself

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Speaker 1: from Joe Biden. Doesn't she just kind of have to

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Speaker 1: do this, like wink and a nod that I promise guys,

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Speaker 1: I'll be different and send out some you know, Ben

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Speaker 1: Rhodes onto Chris Hayes's show, to signal like, no, no, guys,

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Speaker 1: She's really going to be different if she gets in there.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that's true or do you think there's

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Speaker 1: more room for her to separate herself from this monstrous

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Speaker 1: genocidal policy of Joe Biden.

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Speaker 5: I think there's such different people that there is at

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Speaker 5: least an opportunity, And I think people did understand how

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Speaker 5: powerless she was, which the paradoxically creates an opening for

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Speaker 5: her to start flexing some power. Now we actually put

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Speaker 5: up this next element which is related to this. This

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Speaker 5: is about the parallel, the shocking parallels that a lot

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Speaker 5: of people have identified between nineteen sixty eight the convention

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Speaker 5: in Chicago that devolved into anti Vietnam War protests and

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Speaker 5: a police riot and this year.

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Speaker 3: A key lesson from nineteen.

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Speaker 5: Sixty eight that a lot of people have kind of

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Speaker 5: missed is that privately, Hubert Humphrey, who was Johnson's vice

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Speaker 5: president and was coordinated at Chicago without basically a primary,

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Speaker 5: was against the Vietnam War wanted to end it. But

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Speaker 5: was unwilling to kind of buck Johnson, and so went

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Speaker 5: into the election this hobbled candidate who who was seen

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Speaker 5: by the public as just you know, continuing to pursue

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Speaker 5: the Johnson policy and not having his own path towards peace.

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Speaker 5: Under pressure from the protests, he eventually said that he

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Speaker 5: would propose, you know, a halt to the bombing. Johnson

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Speaker 5: then got mad at him about that and said it

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Speaker 5: was undermining his negotiations with the viet Cong. Kissinger and

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Speaker 5: Nixon then back channeled in a genuinely treasonous way to

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Speaker 5: the viet Cong and urged them not to cut a

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Speaker 5: peace deal because they would get a better deal. You know,

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Speaker 5: if Nixon won in nineteen sixty eight, that not only

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Speaker 5: was that treason and cost the lives of you know,

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Speaker 5: many Vietnamese and Americans, it was a lie, like they

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Speaker 5: did not get a better deal. War went on for

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Speaker 5: many years. So I was expecting perhaps a replay of that.

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Speaker 5: Trump is very much a Nixon kind of acolyte. Yet,

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Speaker 5: speaking of Barack revied. He reported for Axios that Trump

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Speaker 5: and I don't know if you saw this, had a

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Speaker 5: call with Nan Yahoo Oldham, Buddy, you need to take

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Speaker 5: this deal. So even the Trump administration, which presumably would

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Speaker 5: benefit or the Trump sorry, the Trump campaign hope, which

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Speaker 5: hopes to be a Trump administration again, which would benefit

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Speaker 5: from BB rejecting the ceasefire deal, even they are pushing him,

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Speaker 5: which suggests that there's some structural interest that the US

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Speaker 5: has that is diverging from Israel's at this point, which

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Speaker 5: is the one thing that gives me some optimism that

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Speaker 5: perhaps this is going to move forward, because at the

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Speaker 5: end of the day, Israel is a tiny country, and

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Speaker 5: it is a client of the United States, and the

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Speaker 5: United States has major interests that it may feel are

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Speaker 5: being undermined, and it may see and it may believe

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Speaker 5: that Iran, China, and Russia are all objectively becoming more

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Speaker 5: powerful as a result of this flailing that we're doing

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Speaker 5: in the region.

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Speaker 1: I don't think there can be any doubt about that.

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Speaker 1: And it is interesting. I wonder with Trump too. I mean,

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Speaker 1: he's also looking at this and saying, I don't really

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Speaker 1: want to inherit this mess if I'm back in the

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Speaker 1: White House either. But I'm sure the calculus for BIBE

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Speaker 1: has always been all right, let me just muddle through

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Speaker 1: and get to potential Donald Trump White House, and then

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Speaker 1: I can really do whatever I want and face absolutely

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Speaker 1: no even like handwringing or leaks to the process, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: So I do wonder if that significantly changes his calculation,

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Speaker 1: if he sees, okay, even this guy who's supposed to

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Speaker 1: be my guy, even he is ready for this to

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Speaker 1: get wrapped up. So potentially a little bit of hope

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Speaker 1: there go ahead, Ryan No just.

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Speaker 5: And the funny element there, the interpersonal element. Trump is

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Speaker 5: still mad at net Yahoo for congratulating Biden on his

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Speaker 5: bun venture.

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Speaker 3: So petty like.

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Speaker 5: Bibe didn't stop the steal, and so he's going to

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Speaker 5: pay for the rest of his life.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, incredible, incredible stuff.

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Speaker 7: You know.

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Speaker 1: The funny thing about that op ed that we put

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Speaker 1: up from the Washington Post about the nineteen sixty eight parallels,

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Speaker 1: of which there truly are many, is, of course the

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Speaker 1: conclusion is, that's why the protesters should back down. That's

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Speaker 1: why the protesters shouldn't be pressing you know, Biden or Harris,

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Speaker 1: et cetera. Instead of that's why Biden needs to push

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Speaker 1: to get a cease fire deal. That's why we need

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Speaker 1: to bring this outrageous, immoral you know, genocide to a

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Speaker 1: close and move beyond this instead. It's all on you know,

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Speaker 1: these relatively powerless protesters who are objecting to the absolutely

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Speaker 1: horrific images that they're seeing in their social media feeds

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Speaker 1: every day. So perfect Washington Post ending there. One last

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Speaker 1: piece here with the DNC coming up, We've got a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a chart analyzing the Democratic Party vibes,

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Speaker 1: the all important vibes heading into the DNC. So this

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Speaker 1: is just among Democrats. It's from civics and they ask people,

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Speaker 1: how are you feeling about the way things are going

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Speaker 1: in the US today? And you can see when Biden

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Speaker 1: exits the presidential race, the number that feels hopeful just

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Speaker 1: absolutely skyrockets jumps up.

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Speaker 4: That's that blue line there to thirty four percent.

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Speaker 1: The number that says the percent that says that they're

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Speaker 1: scared really drops down, Angry drops down.

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Speaker 4: Excited jumps up a bit.

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Speaker 1: So they definitely, you know, putting aside genocide, they come

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Speaker 1: in with the vibes, Ryan, they come in with much

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Speaker 1: better vibes than they did previously.

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Speaker 3: They sure do.

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Speaker 5: And pretty hard to see a vibe shift like that

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Speaker 5: that isn't drug induced, that's just reality making that line

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Speaker 5: spike really quite incredible.

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Speaker 1: Yes, indeed, all right, so can they keep those vibes

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Speaker 1: going and is it enough? Let's take a look at

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Speaker 1: the latest bowls that we have. This is from Cook

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Speaker 1: Political Report. They did a big survey of all the

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Speaker 1: battleground states and the news is really quite good for

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Speaker 1: Kamal Aras. If you can keep this up on the screen, guy,

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Speaker 1: so I can talk through it. So overall, if you've

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Speaker 1: put together all of these battleground states, which by the

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Speaker 1: way includes North Carolina and of course includes Arizona and Georgia. Previously,

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Speaker 1: when it was Biden, Trump was up in these states

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Speaker 1: by five points. Now if you put them all together,

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Speaker 1: Kamala Harris is up by two points, so significant shift,

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Speaker 1: and it's reflected in all of these states. In fact,

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Speaker 1: the only state where Trump remains in the lead is Nevada. Now,

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Speaker 1: previously he was in the lead by eight points in Nevada.

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Speaker 1: This survey shows him up by five points. The next

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Speaker 1: closest You've got Georgia tiede Previously that was Trump plus four.

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Speaker 4: But actually this survey has.

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Speaker 1: Kamala Harris winning in North Carolina, a state where when

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Speaker 1: it was Joe Biden it.

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Speaker 4: Was Trump plus eight.

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Speaker 1: This is all the numbers I'm giving you right now

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Speaker 1: are the ones that include the third party candidates, which

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Speaker 1: you know tend to be the most reflectible. Though you know,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of work being done to try to

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Speaker 1: kick RFK Junior and Jill Stein and Cornell West off

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Speaker 1: of some of these ballots. However, you know, the movement

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Speaker 1: Ryan is pretty undeniable here, especially when you you know,

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Speaker 1: it's difficult to say, Okay, isn't exactly this number, but

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Speaker 1: this is the same they done with the same methodology,

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Speaker 1: and you just see an extraordinary shift in basically the

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Speaker 1: blink of an eye in terms of political time, from

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden losing badly to Donald Trump to now Kamala

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Speaker 1: Harris having an edge.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: It basically, I think what's going on here is that,

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Speaker 5: as we saw in every special election and in every

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Speaker 5: election that's happened since roeby Wade was overturned, the country

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Speaker 5: is leaning democratic like that. That's just the baseline fact.

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Speaker 5: The only thing holding Democrats back from that becoming the

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Speaker 5: manifest reality in this election was the presence of Joe Biden.

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Speaker 5: Generic Democrat was always beating Trump. They swapped in two

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Speaker 5: generic Democrats for the price of one, and then he's

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Speaker 5: beating Trump like I think, and they're beating Trump like that.

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Speaker 5: It really seems to me quite that simple. It's a

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Speaker 5: reversion to the mean, and the mean was Democrats up

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Speaker 5: by a couple points, closely divided country but leaning in

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Speaker 5: their direction post row.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and we saw that when it was Biden. That

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Speaker 1: really showed up in the fact that every swing state

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Speaker 1: Senate Democrat was winning.

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Speaker 6: All of them.

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Speaker 1: They were all outperforming Joe Biden by quite a fair amount.

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Speaker 1: Whether they were more liberal or conservative or moderate, or

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Speaker 1: what their personal characteristics or political talent was, every single

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Speaker 1: one of them was significantly outperforming Joe Biden.

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Speaker 4: As you said, you know, in.

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Speaker 1: Special election after special election, we were seeing very similar results.

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Speaker 1: I do want to mention there was a Fox News

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Speaker 1: poll that came out last night after we put the

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Speaker 1: show together. It's the first poll in quite a while

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Speaker 1: that shows Trump with any sort of a lead. It's

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Speaker 1: gives them a one point edge nationally over Kamala Harris

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Speaker 1: and actually looks very similar to what the landscape looked

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Speaker 1: like in that one pole from when Joe Biden was

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Speaker 1: in the race. So I'm sure the Trump campaign is

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Speaker 1: going to be happy to see that one from the

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Speaker 1: Fox News poll, which is a highly rated polster. By

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Speaker 1: the way, I mean, they're conservative lean in terms of

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Speaker 1: their content, doesn't seem to carry over in terms of

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Speaker 1: having a consistent conservative.

439
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:00,719
Speaker 4: Bias in terms they're polling.

440
00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:03,960
Speaker 1: But you know, CNN dug into some of the numbers

441
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,840
Speaker 1: in the recent polling, and we've been talking about, Okay,

442
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,200
Speaker 1: Kamala Harris obviously is she's doing much better with young people,

443
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:13,560
Speaker 1: she's doing much better with black and brown voters. But surprisingly,

444
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,280
Speaker 1: at least in some of these surveys, she's actually even

445
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:19,679
Speaker 1: outperforming Joe Biden among a group that was supposed to

446
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:21,719
Speaker 1: be an area where he was out performing, and that

447
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,720
Speaker 1: was with white working class voters. Let's take a listen

448
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:26,120
Speaker 1: to Harry and and break that down.

449
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:28,840
Speaker 8: Kamala Harris is making gains and key swing states with

450
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,320
Speaker 8: a surprising and crucial voting group, and Harry Enna is

451
00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:33,119
Speaker 8: here with me to go beyond the numbers. So Harry,

452
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:35,560
Speaker 8: you know, we know obviously you look at the overall polls,

453
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:37,720
Speaker 8: you see these swing state poles, the ones over the weekend,

454
00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:40,040
Speaker 8: Sienna did stand out. We'll see if that's really where

455
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:43,760
Speaker 8: this goes. But you found something very interesting in terms

456
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,120
Speaker 8: of one group that stands.

457
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:49,320
Speaker 9: Out, white working class voters, white voters without a college street.

458
00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 9: That is Donald Trump's core group. That was the reason

459
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,160
Speaker 9: why he was able to break down that giant blue

460
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:58,240
Speaker 9: wall Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, in the Great Lakes. And look

461
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,679
Speaker 9: at their support now, for this is where we were

462
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:03,080
Speaker 9: a few months ago when the matchup was between Johnald

463
00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:06,000
Speaker 9: Trump and Joe Biden. Look, Donald Trump still leads, but

464
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,719
Speaker 9: look at that margin. It has shrunk significantly. It was

465
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:11,600
Speaker 9: twenty five points back in May. It is now fourteen

466
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,640
Speaker 9: points now here in August nearly been sliced by half.

467
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 9: Those numbers that Harris is putting up amongst that group

468
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 9: right now are actually slightly better than Joe Biden did

469
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 9: four years ago amongst those voters in those key states.

470
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 9: Those are the types of numbers that Kamala Harris needs

471
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:27,200
Speaker 9: to put up in order to win. And of course

472
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 9: Joe Biden was like, I don't want to drop out

473
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,159
Speaker 9: of the race because I'm not sure that Kamala Harris

474
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:32,560
Speaker 9: can break in with this group.

475
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:34,119
Speaker 10: But it turns out you absolutely can.

476
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:36,360
Speaker 1: So that's in the new York Times Sienna polling, which

477
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 1: is a high quality poll. However, it's always dicey when

478
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:40,560
Speaker 1: you go into what's called the cross stabs where you

479
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,879
Speaker 1: break down all these different demographic groups, because inherently the

480
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:46,199
Speaker 1: sample size is going to be a lot smaller, so

481
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:50,000
Speaker 1: the accuracy is going to be a lot lower. And

482
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,680
Speaker 1: I find it hard to believe that at this point

483
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 1: she's outperforming Joe Biden's twenty twenty numbers among this group.

484
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:00,680
Speaker 1: But if it's even in the ball park where she's

485
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 1: even hanging on to what Joe Biden was doing before,

486
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,720
Speaker 1: given the way she's outperforming with other groups, that's a

487
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:07,439
Speaker 1: very positive indication for her.

488
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,480
Speaker 5: Right And in general, when you're doing well, you do

489
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 5: a little bit better with everybody. And so I think that,

490
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 5: at least directionally, that's what it seems to be reflecting

491
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 5: here that white working class voters too are like Trump

492
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:27,679
Speaker 5: is struggling, and this person who's like healthy, you know,

493
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 5: cognitively together seems like they could actually be president.

494
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 3: You know, it's early.

495
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,639
Speaker 5: There's still like people say it's a snap election, but

496
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 5: you know, in France they did the whole thing in

497
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:40,879
Speaker 5: what two or three weeks. We still have you know,

498
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 5: all of September and October to go, so a lot

499
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,199
Speaker 5: could change, but you can imagine why Trump is as

500
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:46,960
Speaker 5: angry as he is.

501
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:51,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, And I do feel like in the same

502
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like there is a caricaturish view

503
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 1: of white working class voters that certainly exists among liberal Democrats,

504
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 1: but also very much has been picked up and exists

505
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 1: among Republicans, where they tend to feel like this is

506
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:08,120
Speaker 1: a sort of low, lowest common denominator group. They tend

507
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,399
Speaker 1: to feel that they can take this group for you know,

508
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 1: they can take it for granted as well, in a

509
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:18,679
Speaker 1: way that you know, Democrats decades ago felt And so yeah,

510
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 1: they're also looking at like, you know, well, this was

511
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 1: an election between two old guys, neither of whom I'm

512
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,160
Speaker 1: particularly fond of, and now we've got some energy injected

513
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 1: into the race, and I think Tim Wallas is an

514
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:32,680
Speaker 1: asset in.

515
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 4: Terms of his appeal there as well.

516
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:36,440
Speaker 1: So it wouldn't shock me if at the end of

517
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 1: the day, Kamala Harris is able to outperform Joe Biden

518
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 1: even with this group of voters that was supposed to

519
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 1: be you know, his core appeal as grant and Joe,

520
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:46,199
Speaker 1: because as you were pointing out before, Ryan, it's not

521
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 1: like he, Joe Biden, didn't really have a base or

522
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 1: like a particular appeal among any demographic group, even as

523
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,640
Speaker 1: he himself made you know, his own self conception might

524
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 1: be middle class Grant and Joe, but the reality is,

525
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 1: you know, it's not the group of voters that got

526
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:06,439
Speaker 1: him to win the Democratic primary, and it's not really

527
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 1: what was the core of the reason that he was

528
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,679
Speaker 1: able to barely eke out a victory over Donald Trump.

529
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 1: It was this sort of anti Trump coalition that you know,

530
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 1: held together enough to get him across the finish line

531
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 1: in East keyswing states.

532
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 5: His lack of a base was in some ways his

533
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 5: superpower in the sense that because he wasn't connected to

534
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,880
Speaker 5: any particular element of the party, he could just kind

535
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 5: of move with the political wins. You know, when the

536
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,399
Speaker 5: party was shifting right in the eighties and nineties, he

537
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:38,160
Speaker 5: shifted right with them. After twenty eighteen, as it shifted

538
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 5: left with the you know, the whole Bernie Sanders moment,

539
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 5: he kind of shifts back towards the center a bit,

540
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 5: and because of that, it made it harder for Republicans

541
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 5: to kind of attack him as any particular thing, because

542
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 5: he was no particular thing. A consequence of that, of course,

543
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 5: is that then you don't have any solid base that

544
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,400
Speaker 5: kind of regrets your exit from the scene, and they're

545
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 5: willing to just move with kind of whoever else is

546
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,400
Speaker 5: just following the political bras, which is what we seem

547
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:04,120
Speaker 5: to be having here.

548
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's exactly right. So I mentioned Tim Walls.

549
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,199
Speaker 1: Part of the reason potentially he was put on the

550
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 1: ticket was he's won a number of elections in swing

551
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 1: districts that are difficult for Democrats in rural areas. You know,

552
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 1: he himself comes from a small town. He also one

553
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 1: of the things I've been talking about is Tim Walls

554
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 1: is an extraordinarily class diverse pick for the Democratic Party.

555
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 1: He's the first Democrat on a presidential ticket not to

556
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,919
Speaker 1: have a legal background since Jimmy Carter. He does not

557
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 1: own any stocks, bonds, real estate, crypto or anything of

558
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 1: the sort. He's like, you know, living off his public

559
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 1: school teacher pension. So he's he's a union member, which

560
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 1: I know you and Emily talked about yesterday, which also

561
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 1: makes him quite unique. And there's a sense that he

562
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,359
Speaker 1: has a comfort level talking to a group of voters

563
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 1: that has become increasingly skeptical of the Democratic Party. We're

564
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,400
Speaker 1: getting a look at his approval ratings as people get

565
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 1: to know him and you know, process some of the

566
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 1: Republican attacks on him, see him perform on the stump,

567
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 1: and see what Democrats are saying about him.

568
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 4: We can put this up on the screen.

569
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:12,680
Speaker 1: So his net approval overall is plus five percent, which

570
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 1: is the highest of any of the four you know

571
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,680
Speaker 1: of Trump, jd. Vance, Kamala Harris, and Tim Walls. Tim

572
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 1: Walls has the highest net approval rating, very popular obviously

573
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:27,119
Speaker 1: among Democrats plus sixty percent, hanging basically even with Independence

574
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 1: at plus one percent, and deeply underwater with the Republicans

575
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 1: and minus fifty three percent. The one that I found

576
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 1: potentially most notable here, Ryan was if you break it

577
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 1: down by ideology, because you know, if you look at

578
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 1: that independent group, you have a lot of people who

579
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 1: call themselves independence but are really just Republicans, or people

580
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 1: who just call themselves independence but really.

581
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 4: Mostly vote Democrat.

582
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 1: If you look at liberals, of course he's very popular,

583
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 1: but among moderates he's doing quite well. He's at plus

584
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 1: sixteen percent. So the other thing that's been interesting to

585
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 1: me is, you know, Tim Walls has been the subject

586
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 1: of a lot of conversation on the right about quote

587
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 1: unquote stolen valor about quote unquote tampon Tim, et cetera.

588
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 4: I've seen so many people on.

589
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 1: The right speculate that he was such damaged goods he

590
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 1: was going to have to drop off the ticket, et cetera,

591
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 1: et cetera. And to me, it just exposes what an

592
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 1: incredible bubble these MAGA influencers live in. Because lo and behold,

593
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 1: she is the most popular person on either of these tickets.

594
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 1: So it's so divorced from reality as to really be

595
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 1: quite extraordinary.

596
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 5: It is a letter of faith in the conservative world

597
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 5: now that the pick of Walls was a quote fiasco,

598
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 5: a disaster, that they would they would do it differently

599
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 5: if they had it to do over again. That any minute, now,

600
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 5: you know, she might get rid of him and replace

601
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 5: him with Shapiro or somebody else like that is you

602
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 5: say that, and that is just conventional wisdom among a

603
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 5: massive portion of the kind I don't know if you

604
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 5: called an electorate or a punditocracy or whatever it is.

605
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 3: And yeah, it's I see that stuff.

606
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 5: And I'm like, you guys following the same thing I'm

607
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 5: following here, Like democrats are not actually that bothered by it,

608
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 5: you know, he Walls did does.

609
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 3: Seem to have stretched.

610
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I think he was like misleading on purpose

611
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 5: sometimes about what exactly, you know, his service was. The

612
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 5: way he would talk about deploying for you know, Operation

613
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 5: during Freedom or deploying.

614
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 3: For oh EF. He did deploy deployed to Europe and

615
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 3: support of it.

616
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 5: And he is usually pretty pretty pretty careful not to

617
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 5: go over the line. And he'll say some things where

618
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 5: and when I say he's trying to be misleading, he

619
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 5: said some stuff like I carried weapons during war. It's like, okay,

620
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 5: I see what you're doing there. You carried weapons and

621
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 5: then there was a war over here. In our minds,

622
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 5: we're thinking you carried the web in the war, like

623
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 5: with bullets flying around your head. What you actually mean

624
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 5: is you had a weapon while you were like loading

625
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 5: the transport planes that were flying into the actual war.

626
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 5: So I understand why they're so frustrated with him. At

627
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 5: the same time, the fact that he was a veteran

628
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 5: may have made up a lot of his biography.

629
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 3: In two thousand and six at the height of the

630
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 3: Iraq War.

631
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 5: While that was a big thing that Rob Manuel wanted

632
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 5: all Democrats to run on and went around recruiting veterans everywhere,

633
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 5: although he didn't like Tim Walls and thought Tim Walls

634
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 5: would lose his separate story. But it's not two thousand

635
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 5: and six anymore. Like right now, his bio is he's

636
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 5: a football coach, and he's a teacher, and he's a

637
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 5: union member, and he's a dad, and he drives a minivan.

638
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 5: So unless I don't mean, I don't know if he

639
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 5: drives a minivan, but like that's the characterurebe. Yeah, right,

640
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 5: So unless you can challenge the fact that he was

641
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 5: a football coach or a teacher or a dad, then

642
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:57,479
Speaker 5: you're not going to get at his bio. And so

643
00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 5: I think the Republicans are, you know, getting off a

644
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 5: lot of decent shots on them, but they're firing at

645
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 5: the wrong target.

646
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 1: What have you thought about Tim Walls's response. I'm not

647
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 1: sure if you and Emily talked about it yesterday, but

648
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 1: when he was speaking to that union asked me, he said,

649
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 1: you know, listen, I'm not going to back down. I

650
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 1: am proud of my service and by the way, even

651
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 1: from my opponent. You know, the only thing I have

652
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 1: to say about your service is thank you, thank you

653
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 1: for serving the country, And that compelled jd. Vance to

654
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 1: have to respond and be like, well, I'm glad for

655
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 1: your service too, but you shouldn't have lied about it.

656
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 1: I thought it was a pretty good response not to

657
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 1: back away from it. And you know, also listen, you're

658
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:40,480
Speaker 1: dealing with the ticket that number one, the guy at

659
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 1: the top. Of course, there's a whole bones bur situation,

660
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 1: right and the you know, whether it happened or not,

661
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 1: the suckers and losers conversation and the comments to John McCain,

662
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:51,959
Speaker 1: I like, you know, soldiers who didn't get captured or whatever,

663
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 1: and they just were in Montana supporting this Republican Senate

664
00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 1: candidate who accidentally shot himself in a national park apparently

665
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 1: and claimed that he was wounded in war like claimed.

666
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 4: That as a battle wound.

667
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 1: So it's not like they have a consistent track record

668
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 1: of actually caring about whether he finished his you know,

669
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 1: continuing education to maintain the rank and precisely talked about

670
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 1: that in the right way.

671
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 5: I think, yes, the people who are predisposed to not

672
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 5: like Tim Walls are gonna like dislike Tim Walls even

673
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 5: harder as a result of this, but that in general,

674
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 5: it won't move the needle for.

675
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:32,239
Speaker 3: Folks outside of that.

676
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 5: And also it's the vice president, so it's like, are

677
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 5: you really going to make your decision based on this,

678
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 5: which is what Trump has been saying about JD. Vance,

679
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 5: you know, privately and even to the press when they

680
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 5: asked him to like do you regret it? He's like, well,

681
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 5: you know what, nobody really votes on the vice president anyway,

682
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 5: And he's right.

683
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 1: I love I love the anecdote about how he got

684
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 1: asked at a fundraiser by a bunch of billionaires like

685
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 1: what do you think of these attacks on you guys

686
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 1: that you're wearing? And He's like, Oh, they're just saying

687
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 1: that about JD not about me. I fine, a bit

688
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 1: of parent of course that's not really the case. I mean,

689
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 1: I think the problem for him with Jadie Vance is

690
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 1: just the pick of vice president is an important signal

691
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 1: about how you will govern, what things you value. And

692
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 1: it also made it a lot easier for Democrats to

693
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 1: be able to frame their attacks through this lens of weird, fringe, extreme, etc.

694
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:24,319
Speaker 4: Because you don't have that.

695
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 1: You know, if you put a Doug Burghram or a

696
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 1: Glenn Young Cain I think is probably in fact a

697
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 1: better choice on the ticket, it makes it more difficult

698
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 1: to land the like these are a bunch of like

699
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 1: fringe overly online like obsessed with these strange online subculture

700
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:40,399
Speaker 1: weirdos who don't relate to you whatsoever. I just think

701
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 1: it makes it more difficult for that to land once

702
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:45,799
Speaker 1: you get jd Vance in the mix. We just there

703
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 1: is another clip that came out where he was agreeing

704
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 1: with a podcast host who said that post menopausal females

705
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 1: only purpose, only real purpose in life is to raise grandchildren.

706
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 1: It's like it makes it much easier to land those

707
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:04,920
Speaker 1: sorts of attacks when you've got a jd Vance on

708
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:06,880
Speaker 1: the ticket versus a Glen Youngkin on the ticket.

709
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,719
Speaker 5: Trump gave a speech on the economy, trying to break

710
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:14,359
Speaker 5: out of the weird a little bit. If we want

711
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 5: to move on to some of that, here's Trump yesterday

712
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:19,360
Speaker 5: at one of his addresses.

713
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 3: This is blieb B one.

714
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 11: Now this is a little bit different day because this

715
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 11: isn't around. This is we're talking about a thing called

716
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 11: the economy. They wanted to do a speech on the economy.

717
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 11: A lot of people are very devastated by what's happened

718
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 11: with inflation and all of the other things.

719
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 6: So we're doing this as.

720
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 11: A intellectual speechur all intellectuals today. Today, we're doing it,

721
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 11: and we're doing it right now.

722
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 6: And it's very important today.

723
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 11: I gave Harris and Biden an economic miracle, and they

724
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 11: quickly turned it into an economic nightmare with a nation

725
00:35:55,840 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 11: wrecking agenda ripped straight out of Kamala's San Francisco liberal playbook.

726
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 6: What they've done, and.

727
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 11: We will do something else, which was copied a mean, viciously,

728
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:11,400
Speaker 11: ruthlessly copied. No tax on tips okay, no tax okip.

729
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 11: You know, if they wanted to do that, why did

730
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 11: they do it three and a half years ago.

731
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 10: They didn't want to.

732
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 6: It was actually the opposite.

733
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 11: They hired eighty eight thousand IRS agents to go after

734
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:33,240
Speaker 11: these people. Kamelin Joe tried to take credit for thirty

735
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:34,360
Speaker 11: five dollars insulin.

736
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:34,719
Speaker 12: You know that.

737
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:35,400
Speaker 6: You know who did that.

738
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 4: I did that. I did that.

739
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 13: I did the.

740
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 6: Insulin and it kicked in. And you know, I remember

741
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 6: when I did it.

742
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:44,800
Speaker 11: To help seniors on fixed incomes who are suffering.

743
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 6: The ravages of inflation.

744
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 11: There will be no tax on social security.

745
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 6: We're going to stop it. No tax on socials secuity.

746
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 11: This cruel double taxation of social security benefits. And this

747
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:06,399
Speaker 11: has been talked about for a long time.

748
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 6: She'll probably announce this on Friday too.

749
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:12,359
Speaker 5: That was I liked how she ended. It's like, she'll

750
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 5: probably say on Friday that she's going to do this too.

751
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 5: And after that he pointed out, oh, there's commalst guy.

752
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 5: He's like taking notes on my policies. He is, so,

753
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:24,800
Speaker 5: you know, burnt up about the fact that he picked off,

754
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 5: about the fact that she picked off his like no

755
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 5: taxes on tips policy. Yeah, and also burnt legitimately by

756
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 5: the fact that when he proposed that, the media was like,

757
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:35,360
Speaker 5: this is a terrible policy, that it will be filled

758
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 5: with loopholes that will benefit hedge funds and private equities,

759
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:39,360
Speaker 5: which is true.

760
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 3: And then when she proposed that, they're like, oh, this

761
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 3: is like for the service workers.

762
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 1: The original coverage, by the way, was the correct coverage,

763
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:51,359
Speaker 1: no taxes on tips. It has a lot of like

764
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:53,799
Speaker 1: intuitive appeal, and I understand, of course you want to

765
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 1: cut service workers a break. The much better way to

766
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 1: do that is to get rid of that tip minimum

767
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 1: wage altogether, least the very least raise it because as

768
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 1: you point out, I mean, one of the problems with

769
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 1: it is next thing, you know, you've got hedge fund

770
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,720
Speaker 1: managers saying, oh, this is an income, this is a tip,

771
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:13,439
Speaker 1: so it doesn't get taxed. So in any case, yes,

772
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 1: he is very salty about the fact that she that

773
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:19,880
Speaker 1: she picked that up and copied him in a speech

774
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 1: out in Las Vegas. I don't know if you watched

775
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:24,800
Speaker 1: the soul speech trying, but the funny thing about it

776
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:27,839
Speaker 1: is it was very clear the whole time that it

777
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 1: was like his advisors told him he had to give

778
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,759
Speaker 1: this speech and you know, twisted his arm and wrote

779
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:36,239
Speaker 1: up the script for the teleprompter and whatever, because the

780
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 1: whole time he's just trying to run away from the

781
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:42,720
Speaker 1: actual core content of the speech as much as possible

782
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 1: and go on as normal, you know, tangents about what

783
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 1: he thinks about Joe Biden dropping out and how Kamala

784
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 1: Harris is far left, and he said something he said

785
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:54,400
Speaker 1: about Harrison Wallace, he said, they're actually beyond socialists. I

786
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 1: think they skipped over socialists. So it was more of

787
00:38:57,560 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 1: the greatest hits with a little bit of like the

788
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 1: economics script sprinkled in. He also made this comment that

789
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 1: kind of gave away that he was his arms being

790
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:07,759
Speaker 1: twisted to talk about this stuff, which apparently he really

791
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:10,319
Speaker 1: didn't care about. He says, they say the economy is

792
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 1: the most important subject. I think crime is right there,

793
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 1: I think the border is right there. We have a

794
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:17,359
Speaker 1: lot of important subjects. So even in this speech where

795
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:19,360
Speaker 1: he's supposed to be like leaning hard into the economy,

796
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 1: he's sort of like, you know, undercutting it. And the

797
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:24,160
Speaker 1: reason I bring this up is just this is the

798
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 1: challenge for the Trump campaign. They were doing much better

799
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:31,399
Speaker 1: obviously when Joe Biden was in the race, but when

800
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:34,319
Speaker 1: Trump was just kind of being not doing all that

801
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 1: much and letting the issue landscape speak for itself. Now

802
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 1: they've got a really clear edge, especially on immigration if

803
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 1: you ask voters. They've got a clear edge still in

804
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 1: almost all polls. On the economy, although that edge with

805
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 1: Kamal Harris seems to be shrinking. You've got some things

806
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 1: to work with there. But Trump is he's Trump Like.

807
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:58,399
Speaker 1: He's not going to follow your script. He's not going

808
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 1: to just read your like economic policy speech off the

809
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:04,400
Speaker 1: teleprompter and really lean into that and make that a

810
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 1: core message. Right now, he's finding it incredibly difficult to

811
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,840
Speaker 1: move on from Joe Biden. So even in this speech,

812
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 1: he's still talking about Joe Biden getting taken off the ticket,

813
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 1: and you know, all of these sorts of things that

814
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 1: he finds to be very unfair and it is his

815
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 1: own personal grievance. So in any case, that's some of

816
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 1: what's going on there. At the same time, we've got

817
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 1: Pamala Harris, who to this point hasn't really announced any policy.

818
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:31,759
Speaker 4: To speak of.

819
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:34,280
Speaker 1: We're all most of what she's done, As you mentioned before,

820
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 1: Ryan was like, tell us what she's not for, like

821
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 1: no longer for medicare, We're all no longer for that

822
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:42,319
Speaker 1: fracking band, like running away as fast as possible from

823
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:45,360
Speaker 1: those sorts of positions. But we are supposed to get

824
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:52,120
Speaker 1: some specifics of an anti price gouging policy this week

825
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 1: in a speech that I believe is happening Friday.

826
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 4: We can put this up on the screen.

827
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 1: She apparently sees it to really be in her interest

828
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:03,760
Speaker 1: to try to step rate her economic policy and vibes

829
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 1: from the current president Joe Biden, who of course is

830
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:09,280
Speaker 1: very unpopular on the economy. So on Friday in North Carolina,

831
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:13,360
Speaker 1: she's going to outline a plan of lower cost of healthcare, housing, food. Polls,

832
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:16,279
Speaker 1: they say show an opening for reset on economy and

833
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 1: inflation not.

834
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 4: Defined by Biden.

835
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:21,240
Speaker 1: Look for an emphasis on the prosecutor background, including price

836
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:24,759
Speaker 1: fixing fights as the California Attorney General. We can put

837
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:26,840
Speaker 1: the next piece up on the screen because just this

838
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 1: morning we got some specifics about what she's going to be,

839
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:32,880
Speaker 1: what she's going to be looking at here with regard

840
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 1: to her initial policy proposals, the Politico Headlin says grocery

841
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 1: price gouging to feature prominently in harris economic plan, and

842
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 1: they say, in addition to a push for the first

843
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:47,360
Speaker 1: ever federal ban on price gouging by food corporation, she

844
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 1: would also direct the FTC in state attorneys general to

845
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 1: investigate and levy penalties on food companies that violate the ban.

846
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:56,400
Speaker 1: She's also going to argue Trump's plans, including threats to

847
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:59,399
Speaker 1: slap new broad tariffs on US imports, will only drive

848
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 1: up costs for food and other everyday items. So on

849
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:08,240
Speaker 1: the corporate power piece, Ryan, certainly our friend Matt Stuller

850
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:10,400
Speaker 1: is going to be very happy about this direction that

851
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 1: she's choosing to take her campaign in from the very

852
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:17,440
Speaker 1: initial onset of the first policy pronouncements.

853
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 5: And it's a good fight to have because you're also

854
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 5: also able to divide you know, it divides Democrats because

855
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 5: a lot of kind of neoliberal democrats, you know, really

856
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 5: recoil at the idea that you can have the government

857
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:34,360
Speaker 5: doing anything about about prices and about profits. But those Democrats,

858
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 5: because of partisan concerns, are going to shut up right now.

859
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:39,359
Speaker 5: So you're not going to have that fight like that's

860
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:42,880
Speaker 5: which is a terrific benefit for that policy. On the

861
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:45,040
Speaker 5: On the right, you're going to have a little bit

862
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:47,880
Speaker 5: more division because the jade advances of the world, you

863
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:51,279
Speaker 5: very much do believe that it is the government's role

864
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:55,319
Speaker 5: to go in and investigate a corporation if it is

865
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:58,239
Speaker 5: price gouging like that. That is squarely within that kind

866
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 5: of new right populous nationalism, but it is runs up

867
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 5: against all the you know, the free market ideology that

868
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 5: dominates so much of the rest of the Republican Party,

869
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 5: so that that could kick off some interesting kind of

870
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 5: internal turmoil among those But.

871
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:15,880
Speaker 3: You know, the the there's.

872
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 5: Long been this idea for the last you know, fifty

873
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:20,839
Speaker 5: years or so, that the government should just stay out

874
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 5: of prices.

875
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 3: But that historically has not been the case.

876
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:27,360
Speaker 5: Governments all around the world forever have you know, have

877
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:31,680
Speaker 5: done you know, some version of price controls. We currently

878
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 5: have price controls when it comes to you know, we

879
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 5: control our interest rate policy. We control our energy prices,

880
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 5: you know, whether it's through utilities, or whether it's through

881
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:44,160
Speaker 5: our use of either our military or our strategic patrolling

882
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:46,759
Speaker 5: reserve when it comes to gas prices, or whether it's

883
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:50,920
Speaker 5: our influence with OPEK. We control wages, like if we

884
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 5: see the price of labor, if we see the price

885
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 5: of labor going up, the Federal Reserve comes in and

886
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 5: raps workers right on the knuckles and make sure that

887
00:43:58,239 --> 00:43:59,719
Speaker 5: they those wages.

888
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 3: Go right back down.

889
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:02,759
Speaker 5: So all this is saying is that will extend this

890
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 5: general idea to corporate profits and if there is price

891
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:10,279
Speaker 5: gouging going on, they're going to come after that. What

892
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:13,880
Speaker 5: that means, you know, remains to be seen. How Harris

893
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 5: tries to even come closer to finding that is an

894
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:20,200
Speaker 5: open question. It also suggests that she would need Lena Khan.

895
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:23,680
Speaker 5: Like the idea that you're going to lead with something

896
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:28,360
Speaker 5: that is the FTC's purview and that requires an aggressive FTC.

897
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:30,239
Speaker 5: But you're also going to get rid of Lena Khan

898
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:34,319
Speaker 5: just doesn't match. So it feels like she's winning this

899
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 5: fight against reed Hoffman right now.

900
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:37,799
Speaker 3: What's your sense.

901
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 1: There, Yeah, I mean it seems like that, and there

902
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:44,839
Speaker 1: was another, you know, policy personnel choice that people were

903
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 1: paying attention to. The I'm interested your take on Ryan.

904
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 1: We can put this up on the screen, So Brian

905
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 1: Deese is back. This is some reporting from Brent Schwartzho's

906
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 1: good reporterver at CNBC and advising Kamala Harris on economic policy.

907
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 1: David Dayan comments here has a resume to upset everyone

908
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:05,319
Speaker 1: black Rock experience, but he was also a good good

909
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:07,600
Speaker 1: on the National Economic Council that crafted much of the

910
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:11,920
Speaker 1: break with typical dem policy on industrial manufacturing, full employment,

911
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:13,920
Speaker 1: and more. I look at what he did in office

912
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 1: and say it's good to have him in there. I

913
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:18,920
Speaker 1: know Matt's Suller, as I mentioned before, also very pleased

914
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 1: with this pick, and on the on the corporate price

915
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 1: gouging piece in particular. You know a couple of things

916
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 1: that were note worthy to me is number one, some

917
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:29,440
Speaker 1: of what at least some of what Kamala Harris is

918
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 1: talking about in the speech on Friday, or things that

919
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 1: you can do with just executive power. So even if

920
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:36,719
Speaker 1: you don't have Republican you know, if you still have

921
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:39,759
Speaker 1: a Republican Senate in particular, you can still take a

922
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:43,359
Speaker 1: lot of action here, as Leema con has as FDC head.

923
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 1: The other thing is, you know, as indicative of Brian

924
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 1: Deese as being the carryover, like some of this stuff

925
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:52,440
Speaker 1: has been done by the Biden administration. There was originally

926
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:55,359
Speaker 1: when progressives like you and I were talking about how

927
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 1: corporate price gouging was an important part of the inflation picture,

928
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:00,640
Speaker 1: we were practically, you know, laughed out of the room,

929
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:03,959
Speaker 1: like all the mainstream Oh, that's preposterous, as just government's.

930
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 4: Bending blah blah blah.

931
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 1: The data became undeniable that this was perhaps the most

932
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:12,240
Speaker 1: significant part of the inflation picture. And so while Biden

933
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 1: did a little like nibbling around the edges with regard

934
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:20,399
Speaker 1: to the meat packing industry in particular, number one, he's

935
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 1: just not able at this point to really clearly enforcedly

936
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:27,839
Speaker 1: articulate this case and prosecute this case. And number two

937
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:29,839
Speaker 1: he seemed to be uncomfortable with it, and he had

938
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 1: people in his orbit. There continued to be this internal

939
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 1: divide over like, oh, it's not appropriate to call out

940
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 1: corporate powers, it's not appropriate to go after these companies.

941
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:41,759
Speaker 1: There continued to be a reluctance and a hesitation to

942
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:46,239
Speaker 1: publicly make this case. But it's the data backs it up.

943
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:50,640
Speaker 1: It's a very strong both reality case but also political

944
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 1: case to go after.

945
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 4: You know, the American people have long said that these.

946
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:59,400
Speaker 1: Corporations are price gouging, that they don't have to charge

947
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 1: these high price and you know, make you pay through

948
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:05,719
Speaker 1: the teeth at the grocery store, et cetera. So I

949
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:08,839
Speaker 1: think it's a very strong place for her to stand politically,

950
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 1: and I also think it's a very strong place for

951
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:12,880
Speaker 1: her to stand in terms of actually making a difference

952
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:13,839
Speaker 1: in people's lives here.

953
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:17,759
Speaker 5: Yeah, and to have tough antitrust enforcement is also a

954
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 5: way to police this this pricing problem, because what it

955
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:25,320
Speaker 5: tells companies is that there is one of the limits

956
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:28,279
Speaker 5: on what you can charge people is that you're going

957
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:31,080
Speaker 5: to draw the attention of the FTC. Like if your

958
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:34,680
Speaker 5: profit margin, you know, goes from five percent to twenty

959
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 5: five percent, then the FTC is going to wander.

960
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:38,880
Speaker 3: Wait a minute, that doesn't make sense.

961
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 5: If this was a competitive market and you're jacking up

962
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:46,279
Speaker 5: your prices by twenty five percent and just taking it

963
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 5: back as profit, some other competitor ought to be able

964
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:52,640
Speaker 5: to come in and undercut you on price, Like that's

965
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:55,879
Speaker 5: how the market works. And if that's not happening, then

966
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:58,840
Speaker 5: you're doing something illegal. You're breaking the Sherman Act somehow

967
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:02,239
Speaker 5: when it comes to monopolization and anti trust, and we're

968
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 5: going to investigate and we're going to cause problems for you.

969
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:08,799
Speaker 5: And so even if a company is a monopoly, you know,

970
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:11,320
Speaker 5: they may want to continue to fly under the radar

971
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:17,160
Speaker 5: by keeping their prices low. And if that's the result

972
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:20,840
Speaker 5: of that for consumers, it's that's not just that's not

973
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 5: just as good as having monopolies broken up, but from

974
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:27,279
Speaker 5: a consumer perspective, like it keeps prices down and it

975
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 5: makes it so that you can afford more groceries, so

976
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:31,719
Speaker 5: that that's a win. So it's it's really a win

977
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:35,000
Speaker 5: win to have, you know, both of these things working together.

978
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:36,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that's right.

979
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 1: And it's also an area I feel where the bully

980
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 1: pulpit actually does matter where if you have the President

981
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:45,080
Speaker 1: calling you out in you know, campaign speeches or in

982
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:47,200
Speaker 1: the State of the Union or in a press conference,

983
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 1: et cetera, you know that you now have the eye

984
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:53,520
Speaker 1: of the federal government trained on you potentially for those

985
00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:57,239
Speaker 1: sorts of enforcement actions. So having someone who is able to,

986
00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 1: you know, in a just, lear and consistent way make

987
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:07,160
Speaker 1: this case actually matters quite a lot. The other thing

988
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:09,719
Speaker 1: that you and Emily I think touched on some and

989
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:11,680
Speaker 1: we'll just skip over this soot from Tim Walls at

990
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:14,840
Speaker 1: Ask Me. He also talked a lot about specifics with

991
00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:18,120
Speaker 1: regard to labor and continue to advocate for the proact,

992
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:20,719
Speaker 1: so that seems to also be on the agenda as

993
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:24,040
Speaker 1: you know, a priority action item. The other thing that

994
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:26,160
Speaker 1: was noteworthy you can put this last element from this

995
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:29,960
Speaker 1: block guy's up on the screen is the Harris team

996
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:34,279
Speaker 1: has really shifted the type of ads that they are

997
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:35,920
Speaker 1: running against Donald Trump.

998
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:39,080
Speaker 4: So the headline here from the washat Post Democrats.

999
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:43,880
Speaker 1: Ad shifts from Trump to abortion and economy with Harris

1000
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:46,359
Speaker 1: as the nominee. They did an analysis of data from

1001
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:49,359
Speaker 1: the political research firm ad Impact. They found that they

1002
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 1: are now running much more on these issues abortion in

1003
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:57,760
Speaker 1: the economy versus the threat to democracy, et cetera, et cetera,

1004
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:01,480
Speaker 1: really fixating on Trump type of ads that the Biden

1005
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:01,960
Speaker 1: team was.

1006
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:05,560
Speaker 4: Running and we had shown earlier in the week.

1007
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 1: On Monday, I believe some of the message testing from

1008
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:13,920
Speaker 1: the reied Hoffman aligned like Pulling Pack, put out some

1009
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:16,919
Speaker 1: message testing on how Kamala Harris should approach this race,

1010
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:19,120
Speaker 1: and what they found, I think is not that surprising,

1011
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:21,279
Speaker 1: which is that you're not going to change how people

1012
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:22,320
Speaker 1: think about Donald Trump.

1013
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:24,320
Speaker 4: They think about Donald Trump what they think.

1014
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:27,279
Speaker 1: No, you know, it's not like you're going to see

1015
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:29,120
Speaker 1: an ad on TV and be, oh my god, you're

1016
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 1: right he is a threat to democracy.

1017
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:33,520
Speaker 4: I never thought of it that way, right, So I.

1018
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:36,480
Speaker 1: Think the Harris team is smartly looking at that data

1019
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:40,919
Speaker 1: and saying, okay, well, instead of endlessly moralizing about Donald Trump,

1020
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:43,320
Speaker 1: which people already feel about, however they're going to feel about,

1021
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:46,239
Speaker 1: we need to bolster Kamala Harris on the issues where

1022
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:49,239
Speaker 1: she needs strengthening or where she's already strong, and we

1023
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 1: need to attack him specifically on the abortion, try to

1024
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:55,400
Speaker 1: knock down his numbers on the economy. So maybe Kamala

1025
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:58,040
Speaker 1: Harris even has an edge on the economy. I think

1026
00:50:58,080 --> 00:50:59,959
Speaker 1: it's you know, I think it's a much more intense

1027
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:03,680
Speaker 1: and political strategy, but they're pursuing here with their odds bending.

1028
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:08,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, for most people, if you're like sixty years old

1029
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:12,280
Speaker 5: or younger, Trump has been famous your entire adult life,

1030
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 5: like since you became cognizant of the news, Trump has

1031
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:18,480
Speaker 5: been famous. So I think that's exactly right that there's

1032
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:21,279
Speaker 5: no thirty second ad that you're going to run. It's

1033
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 5: going to all of a sudden change people's minds. So

1034
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 5: the better approach is, Okay, yeah, Trump is this thing,

1035
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:30,839
Speaker 5: but we're going to do this, whether it's codifi row

1036
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:34,080
Speaker 5: or we're going to crack down on corporate price gouging,

1037
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 5: whatever you think of Trump, here's what we're going to do.

1038
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:40,200
Speaker 5: So good good for them, like this whole because it

1039
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:43,279
Speaker 5: forces them to actually then come up with something. And

1040
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:45,760
Speaker 5: you know, we're what three or four weeks into a

1041
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:47,759
Speaker 5: Harris campaign at this point.

1042
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:48,920
Speaker 3: Maybe it's less than that.

1043
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:52,839
Speaker 5: I can't keep track of time, but it's funny that

1044
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:54,839
Speaker 5: this is like basically the first thing we're getting, so

1045
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:57,640
Speaker 5: that you know, her campaign deserves a enormous amount of

1046
00:51:57,640 --> 00:51:59,839
Speaker 5: criticism for the fact that it's a good thing.

1047
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:03,040
Speaker 4: We'll take that, Yeah, definitely.

1048
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:07,440
Speaker 1: At the same time, let's go and move on to

1049
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:09,640
Speaker 1: some of the criticism that's coming from the right as

1050
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 1: they're watching the poll numbers shift. I mean, it's it

1051
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:18,200
Speaker 1: must be head spinning to be a Trump supporter, and

1052
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:22,400
Speaker 1: you know, come off the assassination attempt and the you know,

1053
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:27,520
Speaker 1: the iconic image and the RNC and Joe Biden is floundering,

1054
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:30,880
Speaker 1: and you feel so bold, emboldened you even put Jade.

1055
00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:33,200
Speaker 4: Vance on the ticket. You are riding high.

1056
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 1: You're thinking, hey, are we going to be able to

1057
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:39,920
Speaker 1: put New Jersey into play? And now just in a

1058
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:44,520
Speaker 1: few weeks time, the world is completely different and it's

1059
00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:48,160
Speaker 1: at best a toss up race. I think that probably

1060
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:50,640
Speaker 1: is correct. Where it is is basically a toss up

1061
00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:54,520
Speaker 1: at this point. But the trends keep moving against you.

1062
00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:57,000
Speaker 1: You know, contrary to the idea that Kamala would just

1063
00:52:57,000 --> 00:52:59,600
Speaker 1: have this bump that was like a honeymoon period, she

1064
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:03,080
Speaker 1: can needs to expand her margin, and she continues to

1065
00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:05,560
Speaker 1: put additional states in play, like the state of North

1066
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 1: Carolina as one example. So you're starting to get as

1067
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:12,040
Speaker 1: with any team that feels like they're, you know, starting

1068
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:15,000
Speaker 1: to lose the unity cracks and you start to get

1069
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:17,759
Speaker 1: people complaining about this or that. Now with Trump, as

1070
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:20,640
Speaker 1: you know, on the right, they never complain about Trump directly.

1071
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:24,160
Speaker 1: It's always like the team around Trump that's the problem.

1072
00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:26,520
Speaker 1: So that's mostly what you've been getting is like Alway's

1073
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:28,920
Speaker 1: got to fire these campaign managers and they're giving him

1074
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:32,000
Speaker 1: bad advice, et cetera, et cetera. But you did actually

1075
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:36,120
Speaker 1: have Megan Kelly come out and make some directly critical

1076
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:39,960
Speaker 1: comments about Trump and his style. Specifically, let's take a

1077
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:41,480
Speaker 1: listen to a little bit of what she had to

1078
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:43,040
Speaker 1: say in a conversation with Nate Silver.

1079
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:45,799
Speaker 7: One of the reasons why Trump gets upset with yours

1080
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:48,279
Speaker 7: truly is because I have been raising that question for

1081
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:50,680
Speaker 7: a while, and when he has what appeared to be

1082
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:52,799
Speaker 7: senior moments, I will call him out on it, and

1083
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:54,600
Speaker 7: he doesn't like that, and I can't say that I

1084
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:57,600
Speaker 7: blame him, but that's that's my job. I will say

1085
00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:00,840
Speaker 7: that in that discussion with Elon, to me, he seemed

1086
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:04,319
Speaker 7: quite rambling. I mean it was like he rambles, he

1087
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:08,560
Speaker 7: goes on too long at his rallies and in these

1088
00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:11,200
Speaker 7: exchanges and at his pressor the other day to where

1089
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:13,960
Speaker 7: you get kind of bored, you lose the thread, you

1090
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:17,960
Speaker 7: lose interest, which is not something you're used to with Trump.

1091
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:21,319
Speaker 7: Trump in twenty sixteen he was tough to lose interest in.

1092
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:25,120
Speaker 7: And I think that's probably an age related change. So

1093
00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:26,920
Speaker 7: I think this is one of the challenges of the

1094
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:30,520
Speaker 7: people around him, who are I'm sure are desperately trying

1095
00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:32,040
Speaker 7: to get him to stick on message.

1096
00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:34,399
Speaker 1: And Ryan, some of the polling has shown that since

1097
00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:37,680
Speaker 1: Biden has dropped out of the rays, people's concerns about

1098
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:40,879
Speaker 1: Trump's age have actually increased. Now that you don't have

1099
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:43,399
Speaker 1: the you know, the comparison of him versus Biden, where

1100
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:45,480
Speaker 1: you're on Oh, in comparison to that guy, he looks great.

1101
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:48,880
Speaker 1: Now you're comparing him to Kamal Harris and it looks

1102
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:49,840
Speaker 1: very different.

1103
00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:54,000
Speaker 5: Yes, And people don't really want to his virus. Don't

1104
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:56,879
Speaker 5: necessarily need him to stay on message. There's no such

1105
00:54:56,920 --> 00:54:59,560
Speaker 5: thing when it comes to Trump. But right stay on

1106
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:04,000
Speaker 5: brand and on brand is entertaining and is interesting. And

1107
00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:06,839
Speaker 5: whether you're gawking because it's a car crash and you're

1108
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:10,920
Speaker 5: wondering if the car crash is going to continue, or

1109
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:13,760
Speaker 5: you're loving the way that he's just, you know, beating

1110
00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:16,040
Speaker 5: the heck out of the liberal elites and the media

1111
00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:17,120
Speaker 5: and all the others.

1112
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:20,400
Speaker 3: That's what you want. You don't want to be bored.

1113
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 5: You don't want to you don't want to think that

1114
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:25,520
Speaker 5: this is just an old guy telling you the same

1115
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:27,719
Speaker 5: stories over and over again, saying did I tell you

1116
00:55:27,719 --> 00:55:29,359
Speaker 5: this one? You're like, yeah, well it does It doesn't

1117
00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 5: matter if I tell you.

1118
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:35,720
Speaker 1: That's like the assassination story that you know at the RNC.

1119
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:37,319
Speaker 1: He's out, this is the last time I've ever going

1120
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:39,840
Speaker 1: to talk about this, and then he spends like thirty

1121
00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:42,799
Speaker 1: minutes with Elon Musk going through detail by detail once

1122
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:46,360
Speaker 1: again that very much had that vibe. Cannas Owan's is

1123
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:48,279
Speaker 1: sticking in the lane of like, I'm not going to

1124
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:52,160
Speaker 1: directly criticize Trump, but I'll criticize the people around Trump

1125
00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:54,880
Speaker 1: as like a proxy criticism. Let's take a listen to

1126
00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:56,799
Speaker 1: what she had to say about how the campaign is going.

1127
00:55:57,120 --> 00:55:59,919
Speaker 13: Something feels a little different right now. A few weeks ago,

1128
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:02,440
Speaker 13: Donald Trump survived an assassination attempt, and it was very

1129
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:04,520
Speaker 13: clear to me and I think to the entire role

1130
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:07,960
Speaker 13: that he was going to win the election because he

1131
00:56:08,040 --> 00:56:12,120
Speaker 13: emerged as a leader in his response and in his

1132
00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:15,440
Speaker 13: speeches thereafter, in the way that he communicated with the crowd.

1133
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:16,560
Speaker 14: It just seems so.

1134
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:19,080
Speaker 13: Obvious that in order to defeat the deep State, who

1135
00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:21,439
Speaker 13: I believe was behind his assassination attempt, that we needed

1136
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:22,560
Speaker 13: to elect Trump.

1137
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:26,200
Speaker 14: But things have changed in just a very short time.

1138
00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:29,680
Speaker 14: It just the energy of the mega campaign feels very

1139
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:32,160
Speaker 14: different now. At first I was owing that to the

1140
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:35,520
Speaker 14: fact that there has to be some reasonable trepidation. You

1141
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:38,280
Speaker 14: don't just survive an assassination attempt and just keep going

1142
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:41,399
Speaker 14: and you don't come out of that not being a

1143
00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:44,200
Speaker 14: fundamentally changed person. And I think by the way for

1144
00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:47,279
Speaker 14: the better, like, you know, really recognizing how precious life is,

1145
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:52,600
Speaker 14: maybe perhaps being further committed to a Christian principles as

1146
00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:55,080
Speaker 14: a leader. You know, you're going to be changed having

1147
00:56:55,120 --> 00:56:58,839
Speaker 14: survived an assassination attempt. But there is something else that

1148
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:03,800
Speaker 14: seems to have had where I'm just not sure who

1149
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:05,680
Speaker 14: is driving the magabus anymore.

1150
00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:08,400
Speaker 1: So she's not sure who is driving the magabus anymore.

1151
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:10,239
Speaker 1: I mean, we know who's driving the magabus. It is

1152
00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:13,640
Speaker 1: and is always Trump, but there are rumors Ryan, we

1153
00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:15,719
Speaker 1: can put this up on the screen that Trump may

1154
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:21,080
Speaker 1: be planning to fire two of his top campaign aids.

1155
00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:22,880
Speaker 4: That would be characteristic.

1156
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:25,400
Speaker 1: This is a man has fired I think every campaign

1157
00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:28,880
Speaker 1: managery's ever hired, so it would not be a shock

1158
00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:31,080
Speaker 1: if he's looking at these pull numbers and rather than

1159
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:34,640
Speaker 1: looking internally about perhaps where he has gone astray, he's instead,

1160
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:37,840
Speaker 1: you know, pointing at Susie Wiles and Chris los Avida.

1161
00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:41,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, and it's a it's a funny moment of classic

1162
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:46,320
Speaker 5: UK tabloid reporting that we're mentioning because Dan Bongino yesterday

1163
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:50,200
Speaker 5: kind of in response, you know, vaguely in response is reporting,

1164
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:52,800
Speaker 5: was saying the knives are out for you know, the

1165
00:57:53,120 --> 00:57:55,680
Speaker 5: good Trump people, and he met Lasa Vita by that,

1166
00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:58,080
Speaker 5: so he was kind of coming to las Avita's defense.

1167
00:57:58,080 --> 00:57:59,560
Speaker 3: He's like, I didn't want to have to do this.

1168
00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:01,240
Speaker 5: I don't want to have to talk about the internal

1169
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:03,680
Speaker 5: turmoil because I want to focus on the Democrats.

1170
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:04,360
Speaker 3: But it looks like I.

1171
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:06,520
Speaker 5: Can't because now these rumors are leaking out. But the

1172
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:08,360
Speaker 5: way they leaked out is just incredible. So it's that

1173
00:58:09,560 --> 00:58:13,760
Speaker 5: Daily Mail with this UK tabloid. They don't mention las

1174
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:16,720
Speaker 5: Aveto or the campaign manager in the headline or even

1175
00:58:16,840 --> 00:58:20,200
Speaker 5: in the article. The only mention of him is in

1176
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:24,480
Speaker 5: a photo caption within the story, which says Trump is

1177
00:58:24,520 --> 00:58:28,160
Speaker 5: reportedly talking to his confidants about firing his campaign managers

1178
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:33,040
Speaker 5: Chris los Avita and Susie Wiles pictured. Like, so they're

1179
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:38,360
Speaker 5: breaking news in a caption with no sourcing whatsoever other

1180
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:41,000
Speaker 5: than reportedly, Well, who's reporting it?

1181
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:43,720
Speaker 4: The Daily Mail is reporting it in.

1182
00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:48,280
Speaker 5: Their caption, So it's complete and total garbage reporting. But

1183
00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:51,520
Speaker 5: it does appear that it reflects something real going inside

1184
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:54,600
Speaker 5: the campaign because of what we know from Bongino's public comments.

1185
00:58:55,560 --> 00:58:58,280
Speaker 3: Otherwise you could just be like, this is just because

1186
00:58:58,280 --> 00:58:58,600
Speaker 3: it is.

1187
00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:03,040
Speaker 5: Tabloids don't often fabricate stuff. What they do is they

1188
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:08,000
Speaker 5: play extremely fast and loose with sourcing rules and norms

1189
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:10,400
Speaker 5: and what's supposed to be off the record and what's

1190
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:12,520
Speaker 5: not supposed to be off the record. So it sounds

1191
00:59:12,520 --> 00:59:14,880
Speaker 5: like they had some stuff that was off the record

1192
00:59:15,680 --> 00:59:18,320
Speaker 5: they wanted to get it into print, they couldn't quite

1193
00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:20,920
Speaker 5: figure out how to do it, and some genius editors like,

1194
00:59:21,560 --> 00:59:25,439
Speaker 5: what if we just slip it into the caption nobody, no, no,

1195
00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:28,200
Speaker 5: there's different kind of rules around it the photo caption,

1196
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:31,960
Speaker 5: and then boom, it kind of picks up fire on

1197
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:34,040
Speaker 5: social media. Once it's in there, it's like, oh, daily

1198
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:37,880
Speaker 5: Mail is reporting. It's like, so, just a little weird

1199
00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:41,600
Speaker 5: insight into how rumors get started. But the Bongino's response

1200
00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:44,240
Speaker 5: to it, I think is suggestive of the fact that

1201
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:50,840
Speaker 5: there's something going on. And also it plays it plays

1202
00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:54,600
Speaker 5: as like it sounds right right, It's like, yeah, when

1203
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:57,880
Speaker 5: Trump is flailing, he's all like, this is not just Trump.

1204
00:59:57,920 --> 01:00:00,840
Speaker 5: Everybody when they're flailing, you know, starts fingers at those

1205
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:04,040
Speaker 5: below them, but of course Trump particularly Yeah.

1206
01:00:04,080 --> 01:00:08,360
Speaker 1: And also when a campaign or a team is flailing,

1207
01:00:08,840 --> 01:00:11,480
Speaker 1: then everybody starts throwing everybody else under the bus, and

1208
01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:14,080
Speaker 1: you know, any previous unity that they had five minutes

1209
01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:17,560
Speaker 1: ago is completely shattered and everyone's looking at who to blame.

1210
01:00:17,720 --> 01:00:22,960
Speaker 1: And also you shouldn't underestimate how quickly the posturing starts

1211
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:26,640
Speaker 1: for people to write the PostScript narrative of whose fault

1212
01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:29,840
Speaker 1: it was, So in the after action report or whatever

1213
01:00:29,920 --> 01:00:32,640
Speaker 1: reporting gets released or whatever book comes out, they're not

1214
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:37,280
Speaker 1: the ones who shoulder the blame. So that positioning starts

1215
01:00:37,360 --> 01:00:39,480
Speaker 1: very early in these campaigns as well, to make sure

1216
01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:42,000
Speaker 1: that they come out looking good, even if it's a

1217
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:46,000
Speaker 1: losing effort. We're gonna have to skip over this conversation

1218
01:00:46,040 --> 01:00:49,560
Speaker 1: about the Trump campaign being hacked and maybe it was Iranians,

1219
01:00:49,680 --> 01:00:51,600
Speaker 1: and then the news media decides not to report on

1220
01:00:51,640 --> 01:00:53,160
Speaker 1: it because we've got guests standing by and we don't

1221
01:00:53,160 --> 01:00:54,920
Speaker 1: want to be too late for them. But just you know,

1222
01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:59,920
Speaker 1: thirty seconds, Ryan, if you do, you see newsworthy value

1223
01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:03,000
Speaker 1: in the JD. Vans dossier that was apparently leaked to

1224
01:01:03,200 --> 01:01:05,520
Speaker 1: the Post in Politico and one other news outlet.

1225
01:01:05,800 --> 01:01:09,960
Speaker 5: Supposedly the this oppo dump about JD. Vance is all

1226
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:11,360
Speaker 5: based on public information.

1227
01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:11,720
Speaker 3: You know.

1228
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:15,240
Speaker 5: It's it's like it's gonna be things that are like hypocritical,

1229
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:16,880
Speaker 5: like he said this at one point, he said this

1230
01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:19,360
Speaker 5: at another point, you know, he said this offensive thing

1231
01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:22,160
Speaker 5: about this group of people at this on this podcast.

1232
01:01:22,520 --> 01:01:25,720
Speaker 5: So it's it's it all seems to be public information,

1233
01:01:26,640 --> 01:01:30,800
Speaker 5: and we're constantly like it's not just iron that like

1234
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:34,120
Speaker 5: it leaks these documents, The campaigns themselves sometimes leak these

1235
01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:37,520
Speaker 5: these opo documents, and all all it often is is

1236
01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:41,200
Speaker 5: just a collection of clips end quotes from like podcasts

1237
01:01:41,240 --> 01:01:44,240
Speaker 5: and appearances, and so in that sense, it's not really newsworthy.

1238
01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:46,440
Speaker 5: And so I can understand why they would say, you

1239
01:01:46,480 --> 01:01:48,800
Speaker 5: know what, this is just a standard opo book. We're

1240
01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:51,640
Speaker 5: not doing a Run's dirty work here. But you know,

1241
01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:54,480
Speaker 5: I'm sure they're happy to have the oppo book if

1242
01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:56,800
Speaker 5: it ever, ever, if ever becomes useful.

1243
01:01:56,880 --> 01:01:59,640
Speaker 1: What do you think, Yeah, I think it seems newsworthy

1244
01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:02,720
Speaker 1: because even one of the narratives around Jadie Vance is

1245
01:02:02,800 --> 01:02:04,280
Speaker 1: like did they even bet this guy?

1246
01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:06,520
Speaker 4: Like did they know about this childless cat lady stuff?

1247
01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:10,560
Speaker 1: Aparently did they know about like the postmenopausal woman comment whatever,

1248
01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:13,360
Speaker 1: So even just to have a confirmation that yeah, they

1249
01:02:13,440 --> 01:02:14,840
Speaker 1: knew that and they still put them on the ticket,

1250
01:02:15,160 --> 01:02:18,960
Speaker 1: or no, they were blindsided, but they had an incompetent

1251
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:21,200
Speaker 1: vetting team and they didn't actually pull some of his

1252
01:02:21,320 --> 01:02:26,480
Speaker 1: most controversial comments, or you know, they were actually worried

1253
01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:29,320
Speaker 1: about this issue over here and it turned out, you know,

1254
01:02:29,360 --> 01:02:31,840
Speaker 1: they didn't anticipate that the cat lady thing would be

1255
01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:34,360
Speaker 1: a real issue for him. Yeah, I think that is

1256
01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:36,120
Speaker 1: all very newsworthy, Just like I think it would be

1257
01:02:36,160 --> 01:02:41,080
Speaker 1: newsworthy to know we we have had some reporting, which

1258
01:02:41,160 --> 01:02:43,880
Speaker 1: is again proof that this is newsworthy that the Harris

1259
01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:46,640
Speaker 1: team did know that Tim Walls would likely face these

1260
01:02:46,680 --> 01:02:49,680
Speaker 1: type of attacks over his service. But I would still

1261
01:02:49,720 --> 01:02:52,280
Speaker 1: be interested in knowing, you know, specifically, how heavily did

1262
01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:54,400
Speaker 1: they wait this, how did they think about how to

1263
01:02:54,440 --> 01:02:57,440
Speaker 1: respond to it, did they know all of the aspects

1264
01:02:57,440 --> 01:02:59,200
Speaker 1: of how he would be attacked on this, et cetera.

1265
01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:02,160
Speaker 1: Of course, I think that that would be newsworthy and

1266
01:03:02,160 --> 01:03:03,160
Speaker 1: interesting to the public.

1267
01:03:04,160 --> 01:03:06,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, that's it.

1268
01:03:06,440 --> 01:03:08,760
Speaker 5: Let's let's see it all put up, all the opo

1269
01:03:08,800 --> 01:03:09,200
Speaker 5: out there.

1270
01:03:09,600 --> 01:03:10,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, put it all out there.

1271
01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:12,520
Speaker 1: Let's see it all all right, let's go and get

1272
01:03:12,560 --> 01:03:17,320
Speaker 1: to the guests that we have standing by. There's a

1273
01:03:17,360 --> 01:03:19,720
Speaker 1: lot going on this week with regard to Israel, and

1274
01:03:19,760 --> 01:03:22,240
Speaker 1: we're very fortunate to be joined this morning by Mehdi Haffen,

1275
01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:25,480
Speaker 1: who is founder of Zeteo News and out with a

1276
01:03:25,680 --> 01:03:31,080
Speaker 1: fantastic new and horrifying documentary about Idea soldiers and their

1277
01:03:31,120 --> 01:03:32,040
Speaker 1: conduct in Gaza.

1278
01:03:32,120 --> 01:03:33,480
Speaker 4: Medi is great to see you.

1279
01:03:33,520 --> 01:03:34,880
Speaker 6: Good see Crystal, Thanks for having me.

1280
01:03:35,360 --> 01:03:37,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, of course, So to set up the promise a

1281
01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:40,600
Speaker 1: little bit, you can elaborate here as well. There's been

1282
01:03:40,640 --> 01:03:42,960
Speaker 1: this question that's been floating around. We've seen all these

1283
01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:46,360
Speaker 1: social media you know, tiktoks, instagrams, et cetera, of idea

1284
01:03:46,480 --> 01:03:51,520
Speaker 1: soldiers just publicly broadcasting their war crimes. And so you

1285
01:03:51,640 --> 01:03:55,640
Speaker 1: decided to send a team to Israel and actually speak

1286
01:03:55,640 --> 01:03:58,760
Speaker 1: to these soldiers and get in their own words why

1287
01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:01,600
Speaker 1: they're posting these atrocities. We have a little bit of

1288
01:04:01,640 --> 01:04:03,919
Speaker 1: the trailer we can show to people, and the name

1289
01:04:03,920 --> 01:04:06,520
Speaker 1: of the film is Israel's real extremism.

1290
01:04:06,760 --> 01:04:07,840
Speaker 4: Let's take a look at the trailer.

1291
01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:11,560
Speaker 12: Here's a soldier saying that they've destroyed the university. There's

1292
01:04:11,560 --> 01:04:13,440
Speaker 12: no more educational in Gaza.

1293
01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:15,680
Speaker 6: I think the education when Gaza was something new.

1294
01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:20,400
Speaker 12: You can find it humiliating, you know, maybe a minute.

1295
01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:24,120
Speaker 12: I don't, as they told you, I don't.

1296
01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:25,400
Speaker 3: I don't see.

1297
01:04:25,080 --> 01:04:29,720
Speaker 10: Any any problem with humaniding Palestina. There is nothing.

1298
01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:33,640
Speaker 12: Since the war in Gaza started, is Ready soldiers on

1299
01:04:33,680 --> 01:04:37,760
Speaker 12: the front line have been broadcasting the devastation and their

1300
01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:42,520
Speaker 12: dehumanization of Palestinians on social media.

1301
01:04:42,600 --> 01:04:43,800
Speaker 6: Actually, and I filmed with.

1302
01:04:44,160 --> 01:04:48,600
Speaker 2: My commander or like, was very they want me to

1303
01:04:48,640 --> 01:04:49,000
Speaker 2: do it.

1304
01:04:50,640 --> 01:04:54,360
Speaker 11: Those videos where they've shown that they've tortured captives.

1305
01:04:54,080 --> 01:04:57,360
Speaker 4: They didn't told your captives. You are lying. You are lying,

1306
01:04:57,400 --> 01:05:01,200
Speaker 4: and you are lying. They are not torture, are captive,

1307
01:05:01,760 --> 01:05:02,240
Speaker 4: they are good.

1308
01:05:03,280 --> 01:05:04,760
Speaker 10: Ready is ready?

1309
01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:08,200
Speaker 4: French soldier investigated a lot.

1310
01:05:08,120 --> 01:05:13,160
Speaker 10: Of Palestinians who are already suffering. It's a monk question, okay,

1311
01:05:13,440 --> 01:05:16,280
Speaker 10: because the AID gets the dramas.

1312
01:05:17,240 --> 01:05:25,040
Speaker 12: The issue pit Israel now goes well beyond the occupations

1313
01:05:26,880 --> 01:05:28,680
Speaker 12: in the interest level million million.

1314
01:05:30,400 --> 01:05:33,520
Speaker 10: It will always be the response of the West. We

1315
01:05:33,600 --> 01:05:38,120
Speaker 10: are egble, but we are we are China silent.

1316
01:05:37,920 --> 01:05:43,120
Speaker 4: Sooth So, Maddie.

1317
01:05:43,160 --> 01:05:47,280
Speaker 1: Not only did these soldiers and activists justify these acts,

1318
01:05:47,320 --> 01:05:49,840
Speaker 1: I mean they truly celebrated them in the conversations that

1319
01:05:49,880 --> 01:05:51,160
Speaker 1: you were able to have here.

1320
01:05:52,560 --> 01:05:55,200
Speaker 15: Yeah, I mean we throw around the word crystal shocking

1321
01:05:55,240 --> 01:05:56,880
Speaker 15: a lot, but there is a lot of shocking stuff

1322
01:05:56,880 --> 01:05:58,760
Speaker 15: in this film, even for those of us who commissioned it,

1323
01:05:58,920 --> 01:06:00,960
Speaker 15: and props to basement FLMs in the UK, who were

1324
01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:04,280
Speaker 15: a bunch of Oscar nominated and Emmy Award winning filmmakers

1325
01:06:04,320 --> 01:06:08,240
Speaker 15: who had this pitch to go find the soldiers behind

1326
01:06:08,480 --> 01:06:12,640
Speaker 15: these tiktoks and instagrams and interestingly, major networks I won't

1327
01:06:12,640 --> 01:06:14,520
Speaker 15: say the names. In both the UK and the US

1328
01:06:14,600 --> 01:06:17,560
Speaker 15: turned this down. I wonder why, but we came along

1329
01:06:17,600 --> 01:06:20,360
Speaker 15: as the TEO managed to fund it, and they did

1330
01:06:20,360 --> 01:06:22,680
Speaker 15: go out there, and they did get the soldiers.

1331
01:06:22,360 --> 01:06:24,160
Speaker 6: And as you saw in that trailer, a lot of

1332
01:06:24,160 --> 01:06:24,640
Speaker 6: them don't care.

1333
01:06:24,680 --> 01:06:27,480
Speaker 15: It's not just the soldiers, by the way, media personalities,

1334
01:06:27,920 --> 01:06:30,440
Speaker 15: radical right wing activists who are blocking aid at the border,

1335
01:06:31,040 --> 01:06:34,040
Speaker 15: settlers who want to resettle Gaza, all of them on

1336
01:06:34,120 --> 01:06:37,480
Speaker 15: tape bragging about this stuff. And it's so indicative of

1337
01:06:37,480 --> 01:06:41,560
Speaker 15: what has happened to Israeli society, especially post October the seventh,

1338
01:06:41,760 --> 01:06:44,800
Speaker 15: the shift to the far right, the obsession with vengeance,

1339
01:06:44,840 --> 01:06:48,760
Speaker 15: the dehumanization of Palestinians, and the complete obliviousness Crystal, they

1340
01:06:48,840 --> 01:06:49,560
Speaker 15: just don't care.

1341
01:06:50,800 --> 01:06:55,200
Speaker 5: What were the lines medi that you came across. Were

1342
01:06:55,240 --> 01:06:58,040
Speaker 5: there any lines in these interviews where you would get

1343
01:06:58,080 --> 01:07:02,400
Speaker 5: soldiers or their defenders saying, okay, you know what if

1344
01:07:02,440 --> 01:07:05,160
Speaker 5: that happened, that did actually cross a moral line.

1345
01:07:05,760 --> 01:07:09,520
Speaker 15: So one of the brothers of we interviewed a barbershop owner.

1346
01:07:09,560 --> 01:07:11,240
Speaker 15: You may remember there was an infamous image out of

1347
01:07:11,240 --> 01:07:14,720
Speaker 15: Gaza where a soldier had a bunch of Palestinians, possibly

1348
01:07:14,760 --> 01:07:17,720
Speaker 15: dead we still don't know, bound and gagged and he

1349
01:07:17,800 --> 01:07:20,360
Speaker 15: had a sign for his brother or brother in law.

1350
01:07:20,320 --> 01:07:23,760
Speaker 15: I forget now barbershop in Israel advertising it in this video,

1351
01:07:23,840 --> 01:07:26,760
Speaker 15: such as the dehumanization, and the team on the ground

1352
01:07:26,760 --> 01:07:28,440
Speaker 15: managed to go speak to the owner of the barbershop

1353
01:07:28,520 --> 01:07:30,000
Speaker 15: and he says in the film he says, look, I

1354
01:07:30,040 --> 01:07:32,480
Speaker 15: have no you know, torture is wrong, but not torturing

1355
01:07:32,560 --> 01:07:35,400
Speaker 15: terrorists that's fine with me. And obviously we've seen in

1356
01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:38,840
Speaker 15: recent weeks since the film was made, the allegations, the

1357
01:07:38,920 --> 01:07:42,960
Speaker 15: video evidence of the rape and abuse in Israeli prisons

1358
01:07:42,960 --> 01:07:46,440
Speaker 15: that's been coming out. Look, that is a trend amongst

1359
01:07:46,480 --> 01:07:48,120
Speaker 15: people who really do not.

1360
01:07:48,120 --> 01:07:49,160
Speaker 6: See these people as human.

1361
01:07:49,240 --> 01:07:49,360
Speaker 7: Right.

1362
01:07:49,360 --> 01:07:51,440
Speaker 15: There's a clip from one of the soldiers's name is

1363
01:07:51,480 --> 01:07:53,600
Speaker 15: hen Co and he's a kitchen fitter, right, He's a

1364
01:07:53,640 --> 01:07:56,040
Speaker 15: guy who fits your kitchens in Israel in everyday life,

1365
01:07:56,120 --> 01:08:01,000
Speaker 15: goes out to Gaza Films himself laughing in destroyed Gars kitchen, saying, hey,

1366
01:08:01,000 --> 01:08:04,400
Speaker 15: who wants a Palestinian kitchen? And when we spoke to him,

1367
01:08:04,520 --> 01:08:06,640
Speaker 15: he says, quite openly, it's in the trainey. He said, Look,

1368
01:08:06,720 --> 01:08:08,960
Speaker 15: I walk around feeling superior to these people. Why not

1369
01:08:09,000 --> 01:08:10,000
Speaker 15: I am superior to them?

1370
01:08:10,720 --> 01:08:11,040
Speaker 4: Wow?

1371
01:08:11,520 --> 01:08:15,400
Speaker 1: I mean when you hear this sort of sentiment. You

1372
01:08:15,440 --> 01:08:18,240
Speaker 1: would hope it's a fringe sentiment, but we know that

1373
01:08:18,320 --> 01:08:20,920
Speaker 1: it's not because we see the way that it's represented

1374
01:08:21,439 --> 01:08:24,840
Speaker 1: in the current government. So what is your sense of

1375
01:08:25,200 --> 01:08:29,360
Speaker 1: how commonplace this view is? Where you know, first of all,

1376
01:08:29,439 --> 01:08:32,799
Speaker 1: every Palestinian is just you know, inherently made to be guilty,

1377
01:08:33,479 --> 01:08:37,200
Speaker 1: and once they're made guilty, well nothing is off the table.

1378
01:08:37,240 --> 01:08:39,599
Speaker 1: We played here, and I'm sure you covered as well

1379
01:08:39,640 --> 01:08:42,880
Speaker 1: the debates that we're unfolding on popular as really television

1380
01:08:42,920 --> 01:08:46,920
Speaker 1: programs about how not only should it be fine for

1381
01:08:47,040 --> 01:08:51,000
Speaker 1: Ida soldiers to rape Palestinian detainees, but actually the only

1382
01:08:51,040 --> 01:08:53,080
Speaker 1: problem is that they don't do it more and it's

1383
01:08:53,120 --> 01:08:54,000
Speaker 1: not systematized.

1384
01:08:55,000 --> 01:08:57,920
Speaker 15: And this is happening on Israeli television, it's happening inside

1385
01:08:57,960 --> 01:09:00,280
Speaker 15: the Israeli Parliament, in the Kanesset, where the debate the

1386
01:09:00,360 --> 01:09:03,080
Speaker 15: right to rape. What's interesting is it's not being seen

1387
01:09:03,120 --> 01:09:05,240
Speaker 15: in the US Congress, Crystal, It's not being seen on

1388
01:09:05,360 --> 01:09:08,760
Speaker 15: US television. US newspapers have not gone big on the

1389
01:09:08,840 --> 01:09:11,200
Speaker 15: video that was leaked an air on Israeli television of

1390
01:09:11,200 --> 01:09:14,599
Speaker 15: an alleged gang rape of a Palestinian detainee. And that's

1391
01:09:14,640 --> 01:09:17,280
Speaker 15: why we wanted to make this documentary Israel's real extremism,

1392
01:09:17,320 --> 01:09:19,160
Speaker 15: because you've got to see this stuff. You've got to

1393
01:09:19,160 --> 01:09:20,680
Speaker 15: hear it from them in their own words. You've got

1394
01:09:20,720 --> 01:09:22,760
Speaker 15: to see it on the ground. Because we talk so

1395
01:09:22,840 --> 01:09:25,320
Speaker 15: much about shared values, we talk about all the aid

1396
01:09:25,360 --> 01:09:27,559
Speaker 15: that we send Israel, well, this is what it's paying for,

1397
01:09:27,960 --> 01:09:31,360
Speaker 15: and it's not. It's not a fringe. Sadly, I wish

1398
01:09:31,360 --> 01:09:33,000
Speaker 15: it was a fringe. The fringe has taken over, just

1399
01:09:33,000 --> 01:09:35,000
Speaker 15: like the GEO be here. The fringe is taken over

1400
01:09:35,160 --> 01:09:38,320
Speaker 15: the beast. You've got mainstream ministers in government. And I

1401
01:09:38,320 --> 01:09:40,360
Speaker 15: say mainstream because if Ma Ben Gever is not fringe,

1402
01:09:40,360 --> 01:09:43,240
Speaker 15: he's mainstream. When you're the security minister, you're mainstream. When

1403
01:09:43,240 --> 01:09:47,680
Speaker 15: you're the finance minister Bizalo's Motridge, you're mainstream. And these ministers,

1404
01:09:47,920 --> 01:09:50,400
Speaker 15: as we show in the film, have attended conferences calling

1405
01:09:50,439 --> 01:09:52,720
Speaker 15: for the resettlement of Gaza. We start polling in the

1406
01:09:52,720 --> 01:09:55,960
Speaker 15: film that shows anywhere between twenty five and forty percent

1407
01:09:56,280 --> 01:10:00,040
Speaker 15: of Israeli society's raidy Jurish society supports resettling Guzz And

1408
01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:01,400
Speaker 15: you know he's come out and said we're not going

1409
01:10:01,439 --> 01:10:03,320
Speaker 15: to resettle Gaza, but there's a big chunk of his

1410
01:10:03,360 --> 01:10:05,640
Speaker 15: own government out of Israeli society that wants to do that.

1411
01:10:05,680 --> 01:10:06,639
Speaker 6: We interview Joseph.

1412
01:10:06,840 --> 01:10:09,080
Speaker 15: You just saw that very young radical settler who says, look,

1413
01:10:09,080 --> 01:10:10,519
Speaker 15: if we have to kill a million people, we'll kill

1414
01:10:10,520 --> 01:10:11,160
Speaker 15: a million people.

1415
01:10:11,479 --> 01:10:13,240
Speaker 6: But his dream is to go back into Gaza.

1416
01:10:13,280 --> 01:10:15,120
Speaker 15: They're going back in and trying to put you know,

1417
01:10:15,200 --> 01:10:16,960
Speaker 15: facts on the ground has always been in these Raeli

1418
01:10:17,000 --> 01:10:19,439
Speaker 15: way and by the way, we're speaking in a week

1419
01:10:19,720 --> 01:10:22,360
Speaker 15: where Ben Gavie and all these guys have just announced

1420
01:10:23,040 --> 01:10:25,519
Speaker 15: a brand new illegal settlement in the occupied West Bank,

1421
01:10:25,520 --> 01:10:28,280
Speaker 15: which we don't talk about enough because obviously our attention

1422
01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:28,960
Speaker 15: is on Gaza.

1423
01:10:29,200 --> 01:10:32,599
Speaker 5: Yeah, and to the extent that Israel does defend it's

1424
01:10:32,600 --> 01:10:34,680
Speaker 5: a tax on civilians. What they will say is that

1425
01:10:34,760 --> 01:10:40,720
Speaker 5: will Hamas is using civilians as human shields. Oh the projection, right,

1426
01:10:40,760 --> 01:10:43,240
Speaker 5: you always get You hear a lot this saying that

1427
01:10:43,479 --> 01:10:45,880
Speaker 5: every accusation is a confession. So I want to get

1428
01:10:45,880 --> 01:10:48,400
Speaker 5: your response to this, this high Retz investigation.

1429
01:10:48,439 --> 01:10:49,840
Speaker 3: We could put this up on.

1430
01:10:49,800 --> 01:10:53,719
Speaker 5: The screen here where they confirmed what has been known

1431
01:10:53,840 --> 01:10:55,000
Speaker 5: for many years.

1432
01:10:55,040 --> 01:10:56,640
Speaker 3: I believe this is yeah, there it is.

1433
01:10:57,360 --> 01:11:02,439
Speaker 5: That is that IDF truepes are often using human shields,

1434
01:11:02,439 --> 01:11:05,519
Speaker 5: either tied to kind of roofs of cars or or

1435
01:11:05,640 --> 01:11:08,519
Speaker 5: sent out into the streets or sent out into into

1436
01:11:08,560 --> 01:11:12,360
Speaker 5: homes where they believe there may be militants, believing that

1437
01:11:13,479 --> 01:11:18,160
Speaker 5: the the the militants will then not fire at the

1438
01:11:18,200 --> 01:11:23,439
Speaker 5: Palestinian civilians, which to me is in conflict with the

1439
01:11:23,560 --> 01:11:27,599
Speaker 5: rhetoric that hamas you know, do not just doesn't care

1440
01:11:27,640 --> 01:11:30,280
Speaker 5: about Palestinian civilian life, but actively wants them to die

1441
01:11:30,320 --> 01:11:34,120
Speaker 5: because and then they get, you know, more international solidarity

1442
01:11:34,160 --> 01:11:34,800
Speaker 5: and support.

1443
01:11:35,120 --> 01:11:36,479
Speaker 3: So the fact that they would.

1444
01:11:36,240 --> 01:11:40,559
Speaker 5: Believe that this the that those humans would be actual

1445
01:11:41,160 --> 01:11:44,639
Speaker 5: effective shields against the mass seems to under cut that rhetoric.

1446
01:11:44,840 --> 01:11:47,800
Speaker 5: Did this play a role into in any of your

1447
01:11:47,800 --> 01:11:51,080
Speaker 5: interviews with with with folks on the ground, there.

1448
01:11:51,439 --> 01:11:54,160
Speaker 15: Only in the senses I say that when you're confronting

1449
01:11:54,200 --> 01:11:58,479
Speaker 15: these people with the images, they just don't care. I mean,

1450
01:11:58,600 --> 01:12:00,920
Speaker 15: all all roads lead back to dehumanization, right, and you

1451
01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:03,960
Speaker 15: saw Itamar Fleischmann, very prominent Israeli right with media personality

1452
01:12:04,000 --> 01:12:05,800
Speaker 15: and the start of that trailers. I have no problem

1453
01:12:05,920 --> 01:12:08,479
Speaker 15: humiliating in the Palestinians, nothing's wrong with that, just very

1454
01:12:08,479 --> 01:12:10,800
Speaker 15: blunt and it's kind of you know, from the horse's mouth,

1455
01:12:10,800 --> 01:12:13,320
Speaker 15: as they say. And even when it comes to this story,

1456
01:12:13,320 --> 01:12:15,439
Speaker 15: and Ryan, you're so right to use the phrase, you know,

1457
01:12:15,439 --> 01:12:18,840
Speaker 15: every accusation is a confession. Fundamentally. It has been the

1458
01:12:19,160 --> 01:12:23,200
Speaker 15: single most popular and prevalent defense of Israel's brutality in

1459
01:12:23,240 --> 01:12:25,920
Speaker 15: Gaza since October seventh, which is it's all Hamas using

1460
01:12:25,960 --> 01:12:28,320
Speaker 15: human chills. And now we get this Harretz investigation, which,

1461
01:12:28,360 --> 01:12:31,000
Speaker 15: as you say, confirms what we already knew as being

1462
01:12:31,000 --> 01:12:32,760
Speaker 15: on for years, especially in the West Bank, where we

1463
01:12:32,800 --> 01:12:35,000
Speaker 15: just saw a few months ago a guide tied to

1464
01:12:35,080 --> 01:12:37,599
Speaker 15: the roof of a jeep. But what's so shocking about

1465
01:12:37,600 --> 01:12:41,080
Speaker 15: the Haretz piece Three things. One is the Palestinians they

1466
01:12:41,080 --> 01:12:42,920
Speaker 15: grab to do this is totally random. These are not

1467
01:12:43,120 --> 01:12:45,400
Speaker 15: kind of alleged militants who are being used in human shoals.

1468
01:12:45,400 --> 01:12:47,920
Speaker 15: They're just random folks on the street who are grabbed

1469
01:12:48,080 --> 01:12:51,400
Speaker 15: by the IDEF. The second point is that this is

1470
01:12:51,439 --> 01:12:53,519
Speaker 15: done with the approval of senior military leadership.

1471
01:12:53,560 --> 01:12:55,360
Speaker 6: These are not random rogue operations.

1472
01:12:55,680 --> 01:12:57,400
Speaker 15: And number three, the most shocking part of it is

1473
01:12:57,400 --> 01:13:00,599
Speaker 15: they put them in Israeli military uniforms. They want them

1474
01:13:00,640 --> 01:13:02,439
Speaker 15: to be shot at right. They want them to be

1475
01:13:02,720 --> 01:13:05,720
Speaker 15: not accidentally, they want the Hamas Miltington's fighters whatever you

1476
01:13:05,760 --> 01:13:08,040
Speaker 15: want to call them, to shoot at Israeli soldiers who

1477
01:13:08,040 --> 01:13:10,120
Speaker 15: are actually Palestinians. And as you say, it goes against

1478
01:13:10,160 --> 01:13:12,160
Speaker 15: the whole argument, which is, well, hold on, Hamas don't

1479
01:13:12,160 --> 01:13:14,080
Speaker 15: care about civilian life, so why would they you know,

1480
01:13:14,200 --> 01:13:16,120
Speaker 15: why would they stop shooting if they do it as

1481
01:13:16,120 --> 01:13:18,080
Speaker 15: a Palestinian. But you know, don't let any contradictions get

1482
01:13:18,080 --> 01:13:19,400
Speaker 15: in the way. By the way, going back to the

1483
01:13:19,400 --> 01:13:22,360
Speaker 15: tiktoks when we're talking about every accusation as a confession.

1484
01:13:22,400 --> 01:13:24,880
Speaker 15: I just saw yesterday and is rael soldier put out

1485
01:13:24,880 --> 01:13:28,080
Speaker 15: another video on his social media of him using unra

1486
01:13:28,439 --> 01:13:31,920
Speaker 15: aid to cook himself a meal. And again, weren't we

1487
01:13:32,000 --> 01:13:33,320
Speaker 15: told for ten months.

1488
01:13:33,040 --> 01:13:34,720
Speaker 6: That Hamas is stealing unraw aid?

1489
01:13:34,880 --> 01:13:36,559
Speaker 15: He is an Israeli soldiers stealing the aid.

1490
01:13:36,880 --> 01:13:40,240
Speaker 4: Oh the projection, wow, youo, Madi.

1491
01:13:40,720 --> 01:13:44,760
Speaker 1: Obviously the most important factory here is the horror that

1492
01:13:45,479 --> 01:13:50,599
Speaker 1: Israelis are perpetrating against Palestinians. But we interviewed a liberal

1493
01:13:50,680 --> 01:13:53,760
Speaker 1: Zionist and Israeli liberals Zionist child Ben Afram Ryan and

1494
01:13:54,520 --> 01:13:58,280
Speaker 1: Emily had interviewed him previously and he was drawing a

1495
01:13:58,280 --> 01:14:03,439
Speaker 1: lot of parallels between the dehumanization and the increasing level

1496
01:14:03,479 --> 01:14:07,040
Speaker 1: of fascism in Israel with the United States, and it

1497
01:14:07,200 --> 01:14:09,000
Speaker 1: kind of bristled out. I didn't say much at the time.

1498
01:14:09,040 --> 01:14:10,360
Speaker 1: I just, you know, let him say his peace. But

1499
01:14:10,400 --> 01:14:11,880
Speaker 1: I kind of bristled at it because I was thinking

1500
01:14:11,880 --> 01:14:13,960
Speaker 1: to myself, Okay, but on the other hand, we haven't

1501
01:14:14,000 --> 01:14:17,920
Speaker 1: had someone in Congress literally making the argument that yes,

1502
01:14:17,960 --> 01:14:22,280
Speaker 1: it's fine for us for soldiers to rape detainees, like

1503
01:14:22,320 --> 01:14:25,559
Speaker 1: we have not gone to that level. On the other hand,

1504
01:14:26,040 --> 01:14:28,599
Speaker 1: can I really draw that distinction when it's our country

1505
01:14:29,040 --> 01:14:32,640
Speaker 1: that is sending the bombs When we have, you know,

1506
01:14:32,720 --> 01:14:34,920
Speaker 1: not just the right, but we have many elements of

1507
01:14:34,960 --> 01:14:38,320
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party, including the President and you know, apparently

1508
01:14:38,400 --> 01:14:40,080
Speaker 1: the Vice President, who have been.

1509
01:14:40,080 --> 01:14:41,919
Speaker 4: Supportive of this policy.

1510
01:14:41,960 --> 01:14:44,559
Speaker 1: Who will you know, leak some oh, we're unhappy about this,

1511
01:14:44,680 --> 01:14:47,719
Speaker 1: and then send billions of dollars more weapons to drop

1512
01:14:47,760 --> 01:14:50,559
Speaker 1: on schools where innocent Palestinians are sheltering.

1513
01:14:52,000 --> 01:14:54,000
Speaker 4: Is what are your reflections on that?

1514
01:14:54,080 --> 01:14:57,639
Speaker 1: And also what is our support of this conflict doing

1515
01:14:57,720 --> 01:15:01,080
Speaker 1: to us and our country and the way that we

1516
01:15:01,240 --> 01:15:02,920
Speaker 1: view our fellow citizens around the world.

1517
01:15:04,240 --> 01:15:06,920
Speaker 15: It's such a good question, because yeah, I grapple with

1518
01:15:07,000 --> 01:15:08,839
Speaker 15: this as well, and it's an interesting point.

1519
01:15:09,080 --> 01:15:10,599
Speaker 6: I think I would say a couple of things.

1520
01:15:10,680 --> 01:15:13,040
Speaker 15: One is, you know, I've made the point before that

1521
01:15:13,120 --> 01:15:16,200
Speaker 15: Marjorie Taylor Green and Lauren Bobert and all of our

1522
01:15:16,280 --> 01:15:20,880
Speaker 15: freaks in Congress they look like museally eating sandal wearing

1523
01:15:20,960 --> 01:15:25,880
Speaker 15: San Francisco liberals compared to a Ima Bengevia or the

1524
01:15:25,960 --> 01:15:28,760
Speaker 15: Heritage minister who wants to drop a nw CO on Gaza,

1525
01:15:28,880 --> 01:15:30,640
Speaker 15: or some of these kind of people arguing in the

1526
01:15:30,720 --> 01:15:32,760
Speaker 15: kiness for all right direct, Look, these really far right

1527
01:15:32,800 --> 01:15:35,640
Speaker 15: makes the American far right look mild. That's just a

1528
01:15:35,680 --> 01:15:38,439
Speaker 15: fact based on the record. Having said that, as you say,

1529
01:15:38,680 --> 01:15:41,160
Speaker 15: we are complicit in this, in fact, we have liberals,

1530
01:15:41,200 --> 01:15:43,639
Speaker 15: quote unquote, we have Democrats. We have John Kirby, white

1531
01:15:43,680 --> 01:15:46,840
Speaker 15: House National Security Council spokesman saying on the record at

1532
01:15:46,840 --> 01:15:50,120
Speaker 15: the podium that their military takes more precautions than our

1533
01:15:50,160 --> 01:15:52,719
Speaker 15: military does. We have American officials saying that the Israeli

1534
01:15:52,800 --> 01:15:55,080
Speaker 15: army is better than the American army, which I find

1535
01:15:55,240 --> 01:15:58,000
Speaker 15: astonishing on so many levels. And the only way they

1536
01:15:58,040 --> 01:16:00,479
Speaker 15: can do that is by you know, seeing evil hear

1537
01:16:00,520 --> 01:16:04,360
Speaker 15: no evil, Kristol. When people in America, especially Democrats, sign

1538
01:16:04,400 --> 01:16:07,400
Speaker 15: off on aid for Israel, to be fair, they're not saying, well,

1539
01:16:07,439 --> 01:16:09,200
Speaker 15: we want this money to go so we can rape

1540
01:16:09,200 --> 01:16:12,280
Speaker 15: Palestinide tennees. But they're doing something else that it's disingenuous,

1541
01:16:12,280 --> 01:16:14,240
Speaker 15: which is they're saying, well, we don't want to know

1542
01:16:14,320 --> 01:16:15,719
Speaker 15: what's happening, right, And that's.

1543
01:16:15,520 --> 01:16:16,960
Speaker 6: One of the reasons we made this film.

1544
01:16:17,160 --> 01:16:18,560
Speaker 15: And I would urge, you know, let me do a

1545
01:16:18,600 --> 01:16:20,400
Speaker 15: plug for anyone from the White House watching this Real

1546
01:16:20,479 --> 01:16:23,200
Speaker 15: Israel dot film. Ore e l Real Israel dot film.

1547
01:16:23,200 --> 01:16:25,799
Speaker 15: Go watch the film right because of American TV. If CNN,

1548
01:16:25,920 --> 01:16:28,200
Speaker 15: NBC and the rest New York Terms are not showing

1549
01:16:28,240 --> 01:16:32,479
Speaker 15: this stuff, go watch and see what our tax dollars,

1550
01:16:32,479 --> 01:16:35,439
Speaker 15: what US aid is paying for what this Israeli military

1551
01:16:35,439 --> 01:16:35,840
Speaker 15: looks like.

1552
01:16:36,000 --> 01:16:37,759
Speaker 6: Hear it from the soldier's own mouths.

1553
01:16:37,920 --> 01:16:40,280
Speaker 15: Because that is the problem I have, is that people

1554
01:16:40,280 --> 01:16:43,760
Speaker 15: in America talk about Israel at some weird abstract level.

1555
01:16:43,800 --> 01:16:45,280
Speaker 15: A lot of people like Joe Biden are thinking of

1556
01:16:45,280 --> 01:16:47,920
Speaker 15: an Israel I don't know from when, and nobody talks

1557
01:16:47,960 --> 01:16:49,960
Speaker 15: about the specifics. How many members of Congress have you

1558
01:16:50,000 --> 01:16:54,080
Speaker 15: seen Christal Be asked about the gang rate allegations in Israel.

1559
01:16:54,280 --> 01:16:57,840
Speaker 15: How many members of Congress are asked in TV interviews

1560
01:16:57,920 --> 01:17:00,600
Speaker 15: about what's happening with settler violence and terrorism in the

1561
01:17:00,640 --> 01:17:04,000
Speaker 15: West Bank. We just don't see those specifics put to

1562
01:17:04,080 --> 01:17:05,960
Speaker 15: our members of Congress, so they're able to write blank

1563
01:17:06,080 --> 01:17:08,360
Speaker 15: checks and then go off and do an event, do

1564
01:17:08,439 --> 01:17:10,800
Speaker 15: a rally, kiss babies, and forget about the fact that,

1565
01:17:10,840 --> 01:17:12,719
Speaker 15: as you say, we're complicit in this horror.

1566
01:17:13,880 --> 01:17:16,200
Speaker 5: We could take the two shot here for one second.

1567
01:17:16,560 --> 01:17:20,400
Speaker 5: Earlier in the show, we talked about the ceasefire talks

1568
01:17:20,439 --> 01:17:23,760
Speaker 5: that are opening today in the region. Do you have

1569
01:17:23,800 --> 01:17:26,600
Speaker 5: any sense of whether or not things have shifted that

1570
01:17:26,640 --> 01:17:28,360
Speaker 5: we should expect something different this time.

1571
01:17:29,439 --> 01:17:32,040
Speaker 15: I think what we're now seeing, belatedly around ten months

1572
01:17:32,080 --> 01:17:35,040
Speaker 15: into this is a lot more focus on Netaiah. Right

1573
01:17:35,560 --> 01:17:37,960
Speaker 15: before it was even until what a couple of couple

1574
01:17:38,000 --> 01:17:40,639
Speaker 15: of months ago, it was Joe Biden saying Israel's accepted

1575
01:17:40,640 --> 01:17:43,280
Speaker 15: the deal Hamas is the block even as was like,

1576
01:17:43,320 --> 01:17:44,280
Speaker 15: we haven't accepted the deal.

1577
01:17:44,840 --> 01:17:47,000
Speaker 6: It was almost like a really bad like skit from

1578
01:17:47,000 --> 01:17:47,639
Speaker 6: a comedy show.

1579
01:17:47,640 --> 01:17:50,559
Speaker 15: It was like they've accepted, No, we haven't, And they

1580
01:17:50,600 --> 01:17:52,439
Speaker 15: even got it into a UN resolution. Amazingly, there was

1581
01:17:52,439 --> 01:17:56,919
Speaker 15: actually uns said Israel's accepted the deal had not accepted. Bizarre,

1582
01:17:57,040 --> 01:17:58,840
Speaker 15: just kind of gas sliding on a level I've not

1583
01:17:58,880 --> 01:18:01,519
Speaker 15: seen in a long time. Level gas landing from the

1584
01:18:01,520 --> 01:18:04,800
Speaker 15: band administration. Now, I think there's been so much pushback

1585
01:18:04,880 --> 01:18:07,080
Speaker 15: publicly and credit you know where, give a lot of

1586
01:18:07,120 --> 01:18:10,600
Speaker 15: credit to Israeli hostages, families who have not just protested

1587
01:18:10,600 --> 01:18:13,559
Speaker 15: on the streets of Israel and been you know, water

1588
01:18:13,640 --> 01:18:16,360
Speaker 15: cannon and beaten up by police. I spoke to a

1589
01:18:16,360 --> 01:18:19,080
Speaker 15: family member who's been assaulted multiple times by these radio police.

1590
01:18:19,240 --> 01:18:21,880
Speaker 15: But they also came to d C protested whose speech,

1591
01:18:21,920 --> 01:18:24,920
Speaker 15: were arrested outside the speech, even as inside the hall

1592
01:18:24,960 --> 01:18:28,040
Speaker 15: called them Iranian proxies. So they put a lot of

1593
01:18:28,040 --> 01:18:30,080
Speaker 15: pressure on and have come out and said, look, this

1594
01:18:30,160 --> 01:18:32,280
Speaker 15: is a complete failure. We've had people like Benny Gant's

1595
01:18:32,320 --> 01:18:34,439
Speaker 15: former war cabinet member come out and say there.

1596
01:18:34,360 --> 01:18:36,080
Speaker 6: Was a deal, you know, undermined it.

1597
01:18:36,640 --> 01:18:38,519
Speaker 15: So now we are seeing a bit more pressure and

1598
01:18:38,560 --> 01:18:42,400
Speaker 15: I think now with the honea assassination in Iran, the

1599
01:18:42,520 --> 01:18:45,120
Speaker 15: Hamas leader who was actually leading the negotiations. They killed

1600
01:18:45,200 --> 01:18:47,360
Speaker 15: the guy leading the negotiations as good faith for you.

1601
01:18:48,160 --> 01:18:50,599
Speaker 15: I think you're seeing Hamas now saying, look, they're taking

1602
01:18:50,600 --> 01:18:53,720
Speaker 15: the deal more seriously. Iran has come out and said,

1603
01:18:53,720 --> 01:18:55,919
Speaker 15: if you don't want us to retaliate for your illegal

1604
01:18:56,240 --> 01:19:00,599
Speaker 15: bombing and bombing on our soil, get a ceasefire. Quite

1605
01:19:00,640 --> 01:19:03,000
Speaker 15: a good deal. I think it seems fair. It seems

1606
01:19:03,000 --> 01:19:05,439
Speaker 15: like a great deal. We won't retaliate if you give

1607
01:19:05,479 --> 01:19:07,680
Speaker 15: another group of people to see his father everyone in

1608
01:19:07,720 --> 01:19:08,679
Speaker 15: the world wants, and.

1609
01:19:08,560 --> 01:19:10,960
Speaker 3: That you have already approved, improved.

1610
01:19:10,880 --> 01:19:13,800
Speaker 15: Approved through your cabinet, through you d resolution through the

1611
01:19:13,800 --> 01:19:17,800
Speaker 15: Biden Administration's word is a Biden So yeah, I do

1612
01:19:17,920 --> 01:19:19,599
Speaker 15: hope that we are in a better place in terms

1613
01:19:19,640 --> 01:19:20,720
Speaker 15: of is saying that you know, the.

1614
01:19:20,720 --> 01:19:22,960
Speaker 6: Problem is, he's a stubborn dude.

1615
01:19:23,720 --> 01:19:25,639
Speaker 15: So at the end of the day, even if everyone

1616
01:19:25,680 --> 01:19:29,360
Speaker 15: comes around to it, unless you pressure, unless Joe Biden

1617
01:19:29,439 --> 01:19:31,679
Speaker 15: makes the Ronald Reagan to Monock and begging phone calls

1618
01:19:31,680 --> 01:19:33,120
Speaker 15: that some of us have been urging him to make

1619
01:19:33,120 --> 01:19:37,200
Speaker 15: for months. Now, pick up the phone called make him

1620
01:19:37,240 --> 01:19:38,479
Speaker 15: do it, which he has.

1621
01:19:38,360 --> 01:19:40,920
Speaker 6: The power to do. Yeah, he's not going to do it.

1622
01:19:41,160 --> 01:19:42,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we should.

1623
01:19:42,360 --> 01:19:45,280
Speaker 5: They just need to experiment with an asylum forum or

1624
01:19:45,280 --> 01:19:48,840
Speaker 5: something give like he can live his days out in

1625
01:19:48,880 --> 01:19:49,479
Speaker 5: South Florida.

1626
01:19:49,479 --> 01:19:53,519
Speaker 15: I will agree join a Sun there in Miami might

1627
01:19:53,520 --> 01:19:54,880
Speaker 15: appeal to Sarah.

1628
01:19:55,040 --> 01:19:56,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh absolutely it would.

1629
01:19:57,200 --> 01:19:59,960
Speaker 1: Mattie's final question for you, what are your expectations about

1630
01:20:00,280 --> 01:20:04,479
Speaker 1: Kamala Harris and whether she would pursue a different policy

1631
01:20:04,520 --> 01:20:07,320
Speaker 1: than Joe Biden has with regards to not just you know,

1632
01:20:07,479 --> 01:20:10,160
Speaker 1: this particular assault on Gaza, but with regard to Israel

1633
01:20:10,160 --> 01:20:11,040
Speaker 1: palsign in general.

1634
01:20:12,200 --> 01:20:14,719
Speaker 15: It is the sixty four thousand dollars question, or maybe

1635
01:20:14,720 --> 01:20:18,040
Speaker 15: the three billion dollar question. I don't know the answer

1636
01:20:18,080 --> 01:20:20,160
Speaker 15: to that. In terms of policy, I think clearly we've

1637
01:20:20,200 --> 01:20:24,080
Speaker 15: seen a shift in rhetoric. We've definitely seen a shift

1638
01:20:24,120 --> 01:20:26,920
Speaker 15: in rhetoric. But obviously that rhetoric doesn't save anyone's lives.

1639
01:20:27,560 --> 01:20:30,519
Speaker 15: The Uncommitted movement are pressuring and will be pressuring at

1640
01:20:30,520 --> 01:20:33,520
Speaker 15: the DNC next week for some movement on an arms embargo.

1641
01:20:34,400 --> 01:20:36,640
Speaker 15: The Harris administer, the Harris team have come out and

1642
01:20:36,640 --> 01:20:38,360
Speaker 15: said she doesn't support in arms inmbargo, but you know,

1643
01:20:38,400 --> 01:20:41,080
Speaker 15: that's what pressure is for. What's interesting is those of

1644
01:20:41,160 --> 01:20:44,240
Speaker 15: us who put pressure on Democrats before to switch from

1645
01:20:44,280 --> 01:20:46,679
Speaker 15: Biden to Harris were told you want Trump to win,

1646
01:20:47,439 --> 01:20:50,160
Speaker 15: and actually no, Harris taking over means Trump is less

1647
01:20:50,200 --> 01:20:52,120
Speaker 15: likely to win. We were right about that and now

1648
01:20:52,200 --> 01:20:54,160
Speaker 15: is saying, hey, come out from arms of barga. They say, hey,

1649
01:20:54,240 --> 01:20:57,000
Speaker 15: you want Trump to win again. It's actually good policy.

1650
01:20:57,080 --> 01:20:58,559
Speaker 15: That's what a lot of people are trying to convince

1651
01:20:58,600 --> 01:21:01,639
Speaker 15: to Harait team. Put aside the morale, put aside international law.

1652
01:21:01,720 --> 01:21:04,240
Speaker 15: It's good for her and the Democrats to take a

1653
01:21:04,280 --> 01:21:07,480
Speaker 15: stronger line on net. Great statistic in the new IAMEU

1654
01:21:07,640 --> 01:21:10,840
Speaker 15: Yahoo so you Gov poll that my colleague prom Tack

1655
01:21:10,880 --> 01:21:14,439
Speaker 15: has just reported on which shows of Biden twenty twenty

1656
01:21:14,520 --> 01:21:18,040
Speaker 15: voters in Pennsylvania who are saying that they will not

1657
01:21:18,120 --> 01:21:20,200
Speaker 15: vote for Biden, will go third party or stay at home.

1658
01:21:20,600 --> 01:21:23,160
Speaker 15: Fifty seven percent say they're more likely to vote Harris

1659
01:21:23,280 --> 01:21:25,639
Speaker 15: if she were to come out from arms embargo. Zero

1660
01:21:25,760 --> 01:21:27,759
Speaker 15: percent say they would be less likely to vote Harris

1661
01:21:27,840 --> 01:21:29,880
Speaker 15: if she came out from arms in bargas. So pretty

1662
01:21:29,920 --> 01:21:32,320
Speaker 15: strong polling showing that it's all there for the taking

1663
01:21:32,560 --> 01:21:35,240
Speaker 15: if she can make a move on policy. The rhetoric, great,

1664
01:21:35,479 --> 01:21:37,479
Speaker 15: keep doing it, but policy is what matters.

1665
01:21:38,800 --> 01:21:39,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, no doubt about it.

1666
01:21:39,880 --> 01:21:43,960
Speaker 1: Well, medi congratulations on the film and of course congratulations

1667
01:21:44,000 --> 01:21:46,599
Speaker 1: on Zato. Tell people where they can go to support

1668
01:21:46,600 --> 01:21:48,880
Speaker 1: the work that you guys are doing with got three

1669
01:21:49,000 --> 01:21:54,120
Speaker 1: media entrepreneurs here, two that just launched new endeavors. So

1670
01:21:54,600 --> 01:21:57,120
Speaker 1: go sign up a drop site news and zteo medi

1671
01:21:57,160 --> 01:21:58,519
Speaker 1: go ahead and give people the web draft.

1672
01:21:58,640 --> 01:22:00,599
Speaker 15: Christ you were ahead of the pack and Ryan are

1673
01:22:00,600 --> 01:22:01,960
Speaker 15: just following in your footsteps.

1674
01:22:02,840 --> 01:22:04,880
Speaker 6: Zetail dot com is our site.

1675
01:22:04,560 --> 01:22:06,320
Speaker 15: But if you want to specifically watch the film, you

1676
01:22:06,360 --> 01:22:08,040
Speaker 15: can go to Real Israel dot film.

1677
01:22:08,040 --> 01:22:11,200
Speaker 6: That's our w L Real Israel dot film. Check it out.

1678
01:22:11,760 --> 01:22:13,479
Speaker 4: Terrific, Maddie, thank you so much for coming.

1679
01:22:13,320 --> 01:22:15,720
Speaker 6: In, Thanks for having me all right.

1680
01:22:15,800 --> 01:22:18,040
Speaker 5: Up next, we're going to talk about the FDA's new

1681
01:22:18,400 --> 01:22:24,320
Speaker 5: terrible decision on m d M A stick around for that. So,

1682
01:22:24,400 --> 01:22:27,560
Speaker 5: on Friday, the FDA released a major decision on the

1683
01:22:27,640 --> 01:22:32,360
Speaker 5: question of m d m A assisted therapy, rejecting the

1684
01:22:32,439 --> 01:22:37,040
Speaker 5: request to make it legal for official kind of medical

1685
01:22:37,479 --> 01:22:40,320
Speaker 5: use and kicking it back for what could be years

1686
01:22:40,600 --> 01:22:44,320
Speaker 5: of further study. Joining us today to talk about this

1687
01:22:44,400 --> 01:22:48,200
Speaker 5: are two people who've been pretty deeply involved in the

1688
01:22:48,320 --> 01:22:51,040
Speaker 5: in the push and pull over whether or not MDMA

1689
01:22:51,080 --> 01:22:55,920
Speaker 5: assisted therapy would would be allowed. We have John Lubecki's

1690
01:22:56,000 --> 01:22:58,240
Speaker 5: joining us from the middle of the screen at an

1691
01:22:58,240 --> 01:23:03,320
Speaker 5: advocate and participant in the in this portion of this

1692
01:23:03,479 --> 01:23:07,719
Speaker 5: FDA studying also David Nichols, who kind of eventually became

1693
01:23:07,800 --> 01:23:10,680
Speaker 5: a kind of an opponent of the process we're going

1694
01:23:10,760 --> 01:23:12,439
Speaker 5: to talk about. Is that, I don't know if that's

1695
01:23:13,000 --> 01:23:14,800
Speaker 5: a good way to characterize the world. Give you, give

1696
01:23:14,840 --> 01:23:17,120
Speaker 5: you an opportunity to characterize yourself when you guess to you.

1697
01:23:17,200 --> 01:23:20,240
Speaker 5: But John quickly to kind of tell us, tell us

1698
01:23:20,479 --> 01:23:23,479
Speaker 5: where we are today as a result of this FDA ruling.

1699
01:23:24,720 --> 01:23:28,240
Speaker 10: Well, that's actually a very good question that there are

1700
01:23:28,280 --> 01:23:30,400
Speaker 10: still a lot of answers that need to be that

1701
01:23:30,560 --> 01:23:33,760
Speaker 10: FDA needs to provide. Licos Therapeutics is requesting a meeting

1702
01:23:33,840 --> 01:23:36,920
Speaker 10: with the FDA to be able to sit down and

1703
01:23:36,960 --> 01:23:42,879
Speaker 10: get more information that is not contained in the denial

1704
01:23:43,000 --> 01:23:47,120
Speaker 10: letter or the notification that they got, which didn't provide

1705
01:23:47,160 --> 01:23:51,800
Speaker 10: a lot of information. One of the major things that

1706
01:23:51,920 --> 01:23:55,000
Speaker 10: they had issues with were addiction or potential for addiction,

1707
01:23:55,280 --> 01:23:58,920
Speaker 10: as well as trial design, even though the FDA themselves

1708
01:23:58,920 --> 01:24:02,439
Speaker 10: were involved in the trial is on. Once that meeting

1709
01:24:02,479 --> 01:24:07,240
Speaker 10: takes place, which should happen probably within the next two months.

1710
01:24:08,000 --> 01:24:13,040
Speaker 10: Then LEKOS will have more information on what's required with

1711
01:24:13,200 --> 01:24:17,200
Speaker 10: new trial designs, how many more participants need to go through,

1712
01:24:17,360 --> 01:24:20,240
Speaker 10: how many more trials need to go through, et cetera.

1713
01:24:20,680 --> 01:24:24,080
Speaker 10: But even with the denial, this isn't going to stop

1714
01:24:24,640 --> 01:24:27,320
Speaker 10: FDA approval. It's eventually going to be approved one of

1715
01:24:27,320 --> 01:24:28,719
Speaker 10: these days. The question is when.

1716
01:24:29,720 --> 01:24:33,679
Speaker 5: And David, let me get your respond to a couple

1717
01:24:33,720 --> 01:24:36,360
Speaker 5: of clips from the kind of key hearing.

1718
01:24:36,680 --> 01:24:39,200
Speaker 3: If we can put up F three here.

1719
01:24:39,240 --> 01:24:42,040
Speaker 5: These are the scientists who are tasked with kind of

1720
01:24:42,040 --> 01:24:46,080
Speaker 5: reviewing the process, talking about what they're calling adverse events,

1721
01:24:46,120 --> 01:24:48,760
Speaker 5: which means things not going well for people who are

1722
01:24:48,760 --> 01:24:49,320
Speaker 5: in the study.

1723
01:24:49,360 --> 01:24:52,960
Speaker 3: Let's roll this real quick. F three also concern about

1724
01:24:52,960 --> 01:24:57,000
Speaker 3: a lot of the adverse events not being perhaps recorded correctly.

1725
01:24:57,000 --> 01:25:01,640
Speaker 16: Adverse event associated with mdmation should be recorded.

1726
01:25:01,439 --> 01:25:04,360
Speaker 4: Seeing less adverse events.

1727
01:25:03,960 --> 01:25:07,559
Speaker 17: Until an actual member of the FDA stepped in and said,

1728
01:25:07,840 --> 01:25:11,240
Speaker 17: this conversation needs to stop. I've heard some comments about

1729
01:25:11,360 --> 01:25:14,840
Speaker 17: outside reports of potential misconduct in the studies. Although we

1730
01:25:14,880 --> 01:25:17,360
Speaker 17: are aware of those reports, we consider them to be

1731
01:25:17,439 --> 01:25:20,360
Speaker 17: unverified at this point until we do our own inspections.

1732
01:25:20,680 --> 01:25:24,120
Speaker 17: So the discussions and voting should be based on what

1733
01:25:24,320 --> 01:25:26,480
Speaker 17: is contained within our briefing documents.

1734
01:25:26,880 --> 01:25:29,599
Speaker 5: So that's from a video that's called what a Trip,

1735
01:25:29,640 --> 01:25:32,280
Speaker 5: And I think it's alluding to some of the reporting

1736
01:25:32,320 --> 01:25:36,439
Speaker 5: that you did that seemed to influence the committee members there.

1737
01:25:36,560 --> 01:25:38,040
Speaker 5: So if you talk a little bit about what those

1738
01:25:38,080 --> 01:25:41,120
Speaker 5: adverse events were that she's talking about, and then generally

1739
01:25:41,360 --> 01:25:44,360
Speaker 5: give us your view of like how you would characterize

1740
01:25:44,360 --> 01:25:45,480
Speaker 5: your role in this process.

1741
01:25:46,400 --> 01:25:51,040
Speaker 16: Sure, I think there's probably it bears mentioning from the

1742
01:25:51,080 --> 01:25:56,160
Speaker 16: start that that video is replete with inaccuracies and misstatements and.

1743
01:25:56,160 --> 01:25:58,799
Speaker 3: A number you're referring to the rest of the video, right.

1744
01:25:59,120 --> 01:26:02,479
Speaker 16: Yes, Oh, and and so with regards to that particular statement,

1745
01:26:02,520 --> 01:26:04,680
Speaker 16: I mean there's there's sections of that video that I

1746
01:26:04,720 --> 01:26:09,599
Speaker 16: would say are deceptively cut as well. The FDA ad

1747
01:26:09,680 --> 01:26:17,040
Speaker 16: come explicitly discussed the failure to report adverse events, things

1748
01:26:17,080 --> 01:26:20,800
Speaker 16: like positive adverse events as well, right, so, like experiences

1749
01:26:20,840 --> 01:26:24,840
Speaker 16: of euphoria, things that they felt could lead to drug

1750
01:26:24,880 --> 01:26:30,120
Speaker 16: seeking behavior in the wake of trial participants getting MDMA

1751
01:26:30,280 --> 01:26:35,400
Speaker 16: from licos. And so there are actually very clear documented

1752
01:26:35,439 --> 01:26:41,439
Speaker 16: failings which Amy Emerson, the CEO of Lycos Therapeutics, spoke

1753
01:26:41,520 --> 01:26:44,960
Speaker 16: to as far as why they didn't provide data that

1754
01:26:45,120 --> 01:26:47,800
Speaker 16: FDA was very much expecting from them, and that is

1755
01:26:47,840 --> 01:26:53,360
Speaker 16: also considered adverse events. Now the sort of deceptive editing

1756
01:26:53,760 --> 01:26:57,959
Speaker 16: or what is being presented as some of the unverified reports.

1757
01:26:59,360 --> 01:27:02,520
Speaker 16: Obviously in the clip, they're not getting into the specifics.

1758
01:27:03,240 --> 01:27:06,000
Speaker 16: There have been a range of things that have come up, however,

1759
01:27:06,760 --> 01:27:11,200
Speaker 16: in my and my partner Lily k Ross's extensive investigative

1760
01:27:11,320 --> 01:27:16,120
Speaker 16: reporting that was published via New York Magazine, extensively vetted

1761
01:27:16,160 --> 01:27:19,519
Speaker 16: out via fact checking and the legal process that I'm

1762
01:27:19,560 --> 01:27:22,599
Speaker 16: sure you can relate to, there were a number of

1763
01:27:23,000 --> 01:27:31,120
Speaker 16: participants who experienced increases in suicidal ideation, non completed attempts,

1764
01:27:31,800 --> 01:27:38,360
Speaker 16: mood drops after active MDMA sessions, and psychosis, what was

1765
01:27:38,400 --> 01:27:43,599
Speaker 16: described as leftover psychedelic effects, and a variety of other

1766
01:27:44,160 --> 01:27:48,080
Speaker 16: experiences that simply did not make it into the published literature.

1767
01:27:48,240 --> 01:27:52,680
Speaker 16: Around these trials, we know that there were issues with

1768
01:27:53,040 --> 01:27:59,439
Speaker 16: the reviewing of trial footage from the cameras that were

1769
01:27:59,479 --> 01:28:03,479
Speaker 16: recording different sessions. In fact, in one particular instance, when

1770
01:28:03,479 --> 01:28:09,040
Speaker 16: we asked the organization, the sponsor organization, when footage from

1771
01:28:09,040 --> 01:28:14,320
Speaker 16: a session that contained abusive behavior by therapist was viewed,

1772
01:28:14,640 --> 01:28:18,559
Speaker 16: we got five different answers. Different news media outlets got

1773
01:28:19,240 --> 01:28:22,479
Speaker 16: different answers than the five that we received, So when

1774
01:28:22,520 --> 01:28:27,240
Speaker 16: it comes to sort of adverse event collection, it's a

1775
01:28:27,240 --> 01:28:28,000
Speaker 16: bit of a mess.

1776
01:28:28,600 --> 01:28:29,760
Speaker 3: And I would.

1777
01:28:29,479 --> 01:28:33,439
Speaker 16: Describe myself as being agnostic with regards to the safety

1778
01:28:33,560 --> 01:28:39,920
Speaker 16: and efficacy of psychedelics as medicines. I'm a longtime psychedelic user.

1779
01:28:40,960 --> 01:28:45,760
Speaker 16: I think psychedelics have a lot to offer, but my

1780
01:28:46,000 --> 01:28:49,240
Speaker 16: role with regards to sort of medicalization, I've been a

1781
01:28:49,240 --> 01:28:53,320
Speaker 16: long time critic within the psychedelic field of the broader

1782
01:28:53,400 --> 01:28:58,559
Speaker 16: sort of socio political implications of medicalization. And as a

1783
01:28:58,600 --> 01:29:04,439
Speaker 16: result of getting various reports over many years in the space,

1784
01:29:05,680 --> 01:29:09,679
Speaker 16: that was basically the impetus for the investigation that became

1785
01:29:10,240 --> 01:29:12,840
Speaker 16: cover story Power Trip. And at the end of the day,

1786
01:29:12,920 --> 01:29:16,800
Speaker 16: I care about psychedelics. I care about people who are

1787
01:29:16,840 --> 01:29:23,719
Speaker 16: experiencing harm in both underground and above ground psychedelics, uh.

1788
01:29:25,200 --> 01:29:29,080
Speaker 10: Harms from the underground and and and as you said,

1789
01:29:28,720 --> 01:29:31,160
Speaker 10: this isn't about whether it works or not. This is

1790
01:29:31,200 --> 01:29:35,320
Speaker 10: about whether certain people will have access. As you yourself

1791
01:29:35,479 --> 01:29:39,479
Speaker 10: have stated in stating that law enforcement and veterans having

1792
01:29:39,560 --> 01:29:44,000
Speaker 10: access is a white supremacy problem, and I will broke

1793
01:29:44,960 --> 01:29:48,160
Speaker 10: that that as far as in depth fact checking, there's

1794
01:29:48,160 --> 01:29:52,200
Speaker 10: demonstrable errors in your reporting and symposia's reporting pertaining to

1795
01:29:52,240 --> 01:29:57,639
Speaker 10: me personally where you continually lie. So there's personally.

1796
01:29:57,560 --> 01:29:59,800
Speaker 5: You John before we John before you that can you

1797
01:29:59,800 --> 01:30:02,960
Speaker 5: give us, give us a background of what your role

1798
01:30:03,479 --> 01:30:05,720
Speaker 5: was in this study and what your role is kind

1799
01:30:05,720 --> 01:30:07,160
Speaker 5: of in the in the field now.

1800
01:30:08,160 --> 01:30:11,080
Speaker 10: So ten years ago, I was I had PTSD and

1801
01:30:11,120 --> 01:30:14,720
Speaker 10: I was a participant in Leco's trial in Charleston, South

1802
01:30:14,760 --> 01:30:19,120
Speaker 10: Carolina with Michael and Annie Midhoffer. The therapy I received

1803
01:30:19,320 --> 01:30:23,040
Speaker 10: was honestly that the therapy aspect was the same as

1804
01:30:23,439 --> 01:30:29,000
Speaker 10: regular therapy like CBT, just talk therapy. I then, because

1805
01:30:29,040 --> 01:30:31,439
Speaker 10: I was healed with PTSD, I had always had an

1806
01:30:31,520 --> 01:30:34,840
Speaker 10: interest in politics, So I started working on campaigns. Was

1807
01:30:34,920 --> 01:30:38,000
Speaker 10: Rampaul's National Veterans Director and a presidential campaign work, done

1808
01:30:38,000 --> 01:30:41,160
Speaker 10: a lot of Senate, congressional, et cetera. I mean, right,

1809
01:30:41,200 --> 01:30:44,320
Speaker 10: you know about campaign work, And I started doing a

1810
01:30:44,360 --> 01:30:47,559
Speaker 10: lot of media interviews on my own because when you're

1811
01:30:47,600 --> 01:30:49,760
Speaker 10: working on a campaign and you're sitting there waiting for

1812
01:30:49,800 --> 01:30:52,000
Speaker 10: the candidate to show up, You've got a whole bunch

1813
01:30:52,000 --> 01:30:54,040
Speaker 10: of reporters waiting and you can't sit there and talk

1814
01:30:54,040 --> 01:30:58,000
Speaker 10: about the campaign, so you talk about anything else. I'm

1815
01:30:58,000 --> 01:31:00,800
Speaker 10: not a big baseball guy, so I I talked about

1816
01:31:01,400 --> 01:31:04,800
Speaker 10: the MDMA experience that I had because I haven't done

1817
01:31:04,800 --> 01:31:07,840
Speaker 10: it in ten years, I haven't had a desire to

1818
01:31:07,840 --> 01:31:11,720
Speaker 10: do it in ten years. So I got more and

1819
01:31:11,760 --> 01:31:16,519
Speaker 10: more involved, and then because of my political acumen, I

1820
01:31:16,920 --> 01:31:20,320
Speaker 10: maps became a client of mine to advise them on

1821
01:31:20,520 --> 01:31:24,040
Speaker 10: ending the Night of Monopoly and work on cannabis. They've

1822
01:31:24,080 --> 01:31:26,920
Speaker 10: never asked me to do an interview. Most of the

1823
01:31:26,920 --> 01:31:30,880
Speaker 10: interviews I've done, I've completely sourced myself, or you know,

1824
01:31:30,960 --> 01:31:33,760
Speaker 10: I've had reporters email me or reach out to me

1825
01:31:33,800 --> 01:31:37,080
Speaker 10: in some way of their own volition. As a matter

1826
01:31:37,120 --> 01:31:39,880
Speaker 10: of fact, the first time you and I talked to

1827
01:31:39,920 --> 01:31:42,760
Speaker 10: you had mentioned something about psychedelics on the show, and

1828
01:31:42,840 --> 01:31:46,000
Speaker 10: I shot you an email or I think it was

1829
01:31:46,040 --> 01:31:53,200
Speaker 10: through Twitter. Now they've claimed that specifically, let's see in

1830
01:31:53,280 --> 01:31:56,160
Speaker 10: twenty eighteen, they've said that claim that I was on

1831
01:31:56,240 --> 01:31:59,200
Speaker 10: stage at Seapack. I've never been on stage at Seapack,

1832
01:32:00,360 --> 01:32:04,559
Speaker 10: that me and Rebecca Mercer had some conspiracy. I've never

1833
01:32:04,640 --> 01:32:08,519
Speaker 10: met the person, and that an interview that I did

1834
01:32:08,600 --> 01:32:12,280
Speaker 10: on Breitbart mostly talking about ending the nightA monopoly that

1835
01:32:12,360 --> 01:32:14,519
Speaker 10: I was paid by Maps to do that. I didn't

1836
01:32:14,560 --> 01:32:17,960
Speaker 10: contract with Maps till well after SEAPAC in twenty eighteen.

1837
01:32:18,360 --> 01:32:22,160
Speaker 10: So apparently Simposi's fact checking hasn't exactly been that good.

1838
01:32:22,200 --> 01:32:26,920
Speaker 10: They just make assumptions, print them, and then when they

1839
01:32:26,960 --> 01:32:31,679
Speaker 10: do a peer reviewed article, just point to themselves as

1840
01:32:31,760 --> 01:32:36,479
Speaker 10: a reference. And I will say in the cover story

1841
01:32:36,560 --> 01:32:39,720
Speaker 10: New York Times magazine, they used me talking about my

1842
01:32:40,120 --> 01:32:45,920
Speaker 10: personal suicide attempt in order to detegrate me. And now

1843
01:32:46,320 --> 01:32:50,160
Speaker 10: I haven't worked actually for Maps or Vets or anybody

1844
01:32:50,200 --> 01:32:53,880
Speaker 10: for a couple of years. Now. I do humanitarian aid

1845
01:32:53,920 --> 01:32:56,839
Speaker 10: in Ukraine. I do still continue to talk about MDMA,

1846
01:32:56,920 --> 01:32:58,560
Speaker 10: and my story hasn't changed.

1847
01:32:58,280 --> 01:33:04,479
Speaker 5: Not once, David, if you want to respond to that

1848
01:33:04,520 --> 01:33:06,320
Speaker 5: for a moment, and then I ask you about one

1849
01:33:06,320 --> 01:33:08,559
Speaker 5: other thing from the review.

1850
01:33:08,760 --> 01:33:11,880
Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean, any organization that attacks children, I'm a

1851
01:33:11,880 --> 01:33:15,760
Speaker 10: white supremacist has zero integrity in my book, and that's

1852
01:33:15,800 --> 01:33:17,000
Speaker 10: something that you did, Brian.

1853
01:33:19,640 --> 01:33:22,160
Speaker 16: So I think there's a few different things that are

1854
01:33:22,200 --> 01:33:25,400
Speaker 16: worth replying to. So, first of all, with regards to

1855
01:33:25,439 --> 01:33:28,200
Speaker 16: the idea that we only cover the clinical trials and

1856
01:33:28,240 --> 01:33:32,160
Speaker 16: not the underground The first five episodes of the nine

1857
01:33:32,240 --> 01:33:36,040
Speaker 16: episode run of Cover Story Power Trip actually deal extensively

1858
01:33:36,320 --> 01:33:42,680
Speaker 16: with underground abuses, including a practitioner couple that at the

1859
01:33:42,720 --> 01:33:46,760
Speaker 16: time was quite a descendant and that we actually got

1860
01:33:46,880 --> 01:33:49,040
Speaker 16: reports of what was going on, and that's what sort

1861
01:33:49,080 --> 01:33:54,040
Speaker 16: of kicked off what ultimately became the research and investigation

1862
01:33:54,120 --> 01:33:56,840
Speaker 16: that took us into the clinical trials. But it's really

1863
01:33:56,880 --> 01:34:00,400
Speaker 16: fascinating because both the underground and the clinical trials tie

1864
01:34:00,400 --> 01:34:05,440
Speaker 16: back to this Mexican psychotherapist named Salvador Roquette who actually

1865
01:34:05,560 --> 01:34:09,920
Speaker 16: sort of not sort of, but who actually tortured student

1866
01:34:10,040 --> 01:34:14,559
Speaker 16: dissidents and leftists for the DFS and and there's very

1867
01:34:15,360 --> 01:34:21,000
Speaker 16: mk ultra vibes to the whole history.

1868
01:34:21,120 --> 01:34:23,360
Speaker 10: Was a therapist in the trial? Is your claimings?

1869
01:34:24,439 --> 01:34:26,439
Speaker 16: So this is all in Cover Story Power Trip. I

1870
01:34:26,439 --> 01:34:29,680
Speaker 16: would suggest people listen there.

1871
01:34:29,600 --> 01:34:32,200
Speaker 10: Question is this person a therapist in the trial? Because

1872
01:34:32,200 --> 01:34:34,840
Speaker 10: you're saying this is this is involving the trials? So

1873
01:34:35,000 --> 01:34:38,120
Speaker 10: is this you're referencing a therapist in the trial? Yesterday?

1874
01:34:38,120 --> 01:34:43,120
Speaker 16: So rich Richard Jensen, who sexually assaulted Megan Buissan in

1875
01:34:43,160 --> 01:34:47,400
Speaker 16: the trial, was Salvador Roquett's interpreter and actually was a

1876
01:34:47,439 --> 01:34:51,600
Speaker 16: devoted acolyte of his methodology and mechanism and deployed the

1877
01:34:51,760 --> 01:34:54,160
Speaker 16: very methods that he talks about in the trial.

1878
01:34:54,439 --> 01:34:58,439
Speaker 3: So I think this is we're probably gonna have weeds.

1879
01:34:58,600 --> 01:35:00,639
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, So we're probably gonna have do a Friday

1880
01:35:00,680 --> 01:35:02,720
Speaker 5: show on this so that we can go a couple

1881
01:35:02,800 --> 01:35:06,479
Speaker 5: hours on this. But I think I think people are

1882
01:35:06,520 --> 01:35:08,920
Speaker 5: getting a very good sense of kind of the mess

1883
01:35:08,920 --> 01:35:13,719
Speaker 5: that that became of these trials through through this conversation.

1884
01:35:13,760 --> 01:35:15,840
Speaker 5: I want to do just play one last clip because

1885
01:35:15,840 --> 01:35:17,920
Speaker 5: we have to run another another segment that we have

1886
01:35:17,960 --> 01:35:19,640
Speaker 5: to get to, So let me let's just play F

1887
01:35:19,720 --> 01:35:23,519
Speaker 5: four here, because this was the most striking comment that

1888
01:35:23,600 --> 01:35:25,840
Speaker 5: I heard during the review.

1889
01:35:26,400 --> 01:35:27,200
Speaker 6: We already have.

1890
01:35:29,680 --> 01:35:33,559
Speaker 1: Evidence based treatments for PTSD, and yes, you know, they

1891
01:35:33,600 --> 01:35:36,800
Speaker 1: do have drop out rates, but they do have really

1892
01:35:36,840 --> 01:35:38,720
Speaker 1: strong outcomes.

1893
01:35:38,880 --> 01:35:41,200
Speaker 4: They're you know, covered by insurance.

1894
01:35:41,640 --> 01:35:44,800
Speaker 1: What is the burden on providers to be providing that

1895
01:35:44,800 --> 01:35:47,919
Speaker 1: treatment when we already have treatments that are really effective.

1896
01:35:48,240 --> 01:35:51,400
Speaker 5: What I read from that reviewer is her saying, we

1897
01:35:51,439 --> 01:35:53,280
Speaker 5: already have pharmaceutical interventions.

1898
01:35:53,320 --> 01:35:55,200
Speaker 3: I have drugs that work.

1899
01:35:55,280 --> 01:35:57,360
Speaker 5: I don't I wouldn't say that they necessarily do work

1900
01:35:57,360 --> 01:36:00,000
Speaker 5: for PTSD. But let's pretend that's true. And she said,

1901
01:36:00,280 --> 01:36:03,240
Speaker 5: what's the burden on the providers? Like, which is code

1902
01:36:03,280 --> 01:36:06,400
Speaker 5: to me? For this would be too expensive for insurers

1903
01:36:06,439 --> 01:36:10,719
Speaker 5: to kind of pay for the psychotherapy and the damasys therapy.

1904
01:36:11,439 --> 01:36:13,720
Speaker 5: Curious for just a response from the both you and

1905
01:36:13,760 --> 01:36:15,240
Speaker 5: then and then I promise we'll have you back on

1906
01:36:15,280 --> 01:36:16,880
Speaker 5: for a much longer discussion later.

1907
01:36:17,920 --> 01:36:18,800
Speaker 3: Why don't you go first?

1908
01:36:20,200 --> 01:36:22,599
Speaker 10: If they're so effective, then why is there's still such

1909
01:36:22,640 --> 01:36:24,679
Speaker 10: a high suicide rate with over one hundred and fifty

1910
01:36:24,680 --> 01:36:28,640
Speaker 10: Americans committing suicide each and every day. Suicide is no

1911
01:36:29,320 --> 01:36:35,799
Speaker 10: is a known effect of PTSD. The evidence based treatments

1912
01:36:35,800 --> 01:36:38,360
Speaker 10: that work, they do, I mean, they do work for

1913
01:36:38,439 --> 01:36:42,320
Speaker 10: some people, and they should be available. But also if

1914
01:36:42,320 --> 01:36:45,759
Speaker 10: you take SSRIs for your entire life, plus the costs

1915
01:36:45,920 --> 01:36:50,280
Speaker 10: of secondary issues to taking those medications and the effects

1916
01:36:50,320 --> 01:36:54,080
Speaker 10: of PTSD like alcoholism, liver damage, et cetera, we all

1917
01:36:54,120 --> 01:36:59,600
Speaker 10: know those, it's actually far cheaper to go through the

1918
01:36:59,640 --> 01:37:03,360
Speaker 10: protocoll just from a financial aspect and be done. I mean,

1919
01:37:03,439 --> 01:37:06,400
Speaker 10: I haven't taken any you know, medications other than for

1920
01:37:06,520 --> 01:37:11,000
Speaker 10: COVID and strep throat since I went through therapy and

1921
01:37:11,080 --> 01:37:13,599
Speaker 10: nobody's The VA hasn't had to pay for any mental

1922
01:37:13,640 --> 01:37:16,680
Speaker 10: health treatment or anything like that. I think part of

1923
01:37:16,720 --> 01:37:19,800
Speaker 10: it is therapists like the concept of the fifty minute

1924
01:37:19,840 --> 01:37:22,920
Speaker 10: therapists hour, where they don't have to be there with

1925
01:37:23,040 --> 01:37:25,960
Speaker 10: a patient for eight hours or six hours or however

1926
01:37:26,040 --> 01:37:29,599
Speaker 10: long the MDMA lasts in the system. I don't believe

1927
01:37:29,600 --> 01:37:32,320
Speaker 10: big Pharma was against this, and I don't believe the

1928
01:37:32,320 --> 01:37:35,719
Speaker 10: insurance companies were against this. I think it's actually people

1929
01:37:35,720 --> 01:37:38,240
Speaker 10: who like who I freely admit they use drugs and

1930
01:37:38,280 --> 01:37:40,400
Speaker 10: that these are safe and effective. They just have issues

1931
01:37:40,439 --> 01:37:43,040
Speaker 10: with who would be treated and that everybody would have

1932
01:37:43,080 --> 01:37:43,719
Speaker 10: a right to heal.

1933
01:37:44,439 --> 01:37:46,559
Speaker 5: David any So the reality final thoughts and then and

1934
01:37:47,280 --> 01:37:48,479
Speaker 5: we will have you guys back on.

1935
01:37:49,120 --> 01:37:51,040
Speaker 16: The reality is we don't know that these drugs are

1936
01:37:51,080 --> 01:37:54,320
Speaker 16: safe and effective for treating PTSD. Personally, I think all

1937
01:37:54,360 --> 01:37:56,920
Speaker 16: drugs should be decriminalized so people can take what they want,

1938
01:37:56,960 --> 01:37:59,519
Speaker 16: when they want, with whomever they want. My concern is

1939
01:37:59,560 --> 01:38:03,600
Speaker 16: that they of the research into MDMA and other psychedelics

1940
01:38:03,640 --> 01:38:08,080
Speaker 16: as medicines for specific indications is just not there, Like

1941
01:38:08,400 --> 01:38:11,280
Speaker 16: the quality is bad. And the reason that I'm here

1942
01:38:11,360 --> 01:38:14,600
Speaker 16: is because I'm trying to inform anyone who has PTSD,

1943
01:38:14,800 --> 01:38:19,120
Speaker 16: including veterans, that there are significant undisclosed risks and harms

1944
01:38:19,160 --> 01:38:23,160
Speaker 16: associated with these trials. There's a reason that three papers

1945
01:38:23,160 --> 01:38:26,320
Speaker 16: were just retracted that were tied to the LYCOS data.

1946
01:38:27,200 --> 01:38:29,719
Speaker 16: It's worth pointing out that even as veterans are claiming

1947
01:38:29,720 --> 01:38:32,960
Speaker 16: that this is going to decrease suicide, the sponsor hasn't

1948
01:38:33,000 --> 01:38:35,320
Speaker 16: actually reported that it decreases suicide.

1949
01:38:35,600 --> 01:38:37,080
Speaker 10: That isn't backed up by the data.

1950
01:38:37,120 --> 01:38:39,080
Speaker 16: And just as a final thing, I want to say

1951
01:38:39,080 --> 01:38:41,639
Speaker 16: that I resigned from Symposia at the end of last

1952
01:38:41,680 --> 01:38:44,759
Speaker 16: year because I was concerned about a former colleagues's conduct

1953
01:38:44,840 --> 01:38:47,920
Speaker 16: and the trajectory of the institution as a whole. A

1954
01:38:47,960 --> 01:38:51,120
Speaker 16: major factor was that Symposia failed to investigate a formal

1955
01:38:51,160 --> 01:38:54,439
Speaker 16: complaint of unethical behavior filed against one of the members

1956
01:38:54,560 --> 01:38:58,080
Speaker 16: of the organization, and then subsequently failed to address a

1957
01:38:58,160 --> 01:39:00,840
Speaker 16: multitude of additional issues that were entered to the team

1958
01:39:01,200 --> 01:39:04,200
Speaker 16: I left nearly a year ago. I do not represent

1959
01:39:04,240 --> 01:39:06,400
Speaker 16: their views. Some of the reporting that you have mentioned

1960
01:39:06,479 --> 01:39:09,160
Speaker 16: is not my reporting was not done by me.

1961
01:39:09,680 --> 01:39:13,879
Speaker 10: My line editorial Suneid.

1962
01:39:14,960 --> 01:39:18,600
Speaker 3: But well let let's yeah.

1963
01:39:18,280 --> 01:39:20,559
Speaker 5: We can Well we can talk about that next time,

1964
01:39:22,200 --> 01:39:25,400
Speaker 5: John le Becky, David Nichols, thank you so much for

1965
01:39:25,640 --> 01:39:29,679
Speaker 5: joining us UH to talk about this, this big mess

1966
01:39:29,680 --> 01:39:30,880
Speaker 5: of a mdm A trial.

1967
01:39:31,360 --> 01:39:33,120
Speaker 3: All right, Crystal, I know you had to step out.

1968
01:39:33,000 --> 01:39:37,599
Speaker 5: Because of the different zoom issues with getting too many

1969
01:39:37,600 --> 01:39:41,320
Speaker 5: people remote at a time, But I think what that

1970
01:39:41,680 --> 01:39:46,280
Speaker 5: segment really showed is the complete and total mess that

1971
01:39:46,520 --> 01:39:51,160
Speaker 5: the m d m A FDA trials produced and the

1972
01:39:51,560 --> 01:39:54,200
Speaker 5: mess that kind of undermined them. There's a lot more

1973
01:39:54,280 --> 01:39:57,559
Speaker 5: to it, as as people could tell UH and and

1974
01:39:57,640 --> 01:40:00,000
Speaker 5: we'll get them back on for a much longer converse

1975
01:40:00,439 --> 01:40:03,559
Speaker 5: that can really breathe and unpack this, because this isn't over.

1976
01:40:04,120 --> 01:40:07,599
Speaker 5: Like the FDA doesn't actually have the authority to regulate

1977
01:40:07,640 --> 01:40:11,960
Speaker 5: psychiatry and therapy. Yet the way that the therapists were

1978
01:40:12,040 --> 01:40:17,960
Speaker 5: involved with the medication ended up influencing the decision in

1979
01:40:18,360 --> 01:40:21,040
Speaker 5: a negative way, and so it's something that still has

1980
01:40:21,080 --> 01:40:24,200
Speaker 5: to be that still has to be unpacked. It's going

1981
01:40:24,280 --> 01:40:27,280
Speaker 5: to take you, now many more years and millions more dollars,

1982
01:40:27,600 --> 01:40:30,760
Speaker 5: and so we might not have an FDA approved MBMA

1983
01:40:30,880 --> 01:40:32,320
Speaker 5: medication for years.

1984
01:40:32,160 --> 01:40:36,520
Speaker 1: At this point, which is I would assume really important

1985
01:40:36,520 --> 01:40:40,000
Speaker 1: for sort of mainstreaming it and creating a permission structure,

1986
01:40:40,120 --> 01:40:42,680
Speaker 1: as they say, for more therapists to take it up

1987
01:40:42,680 --> 01:40:43,240
Speaker 1: more broadly.

1988
01:40:44,000 --> 01:40:45,840
Speaker 3: Yes, because otherwise you basically can't do it.

1989
01:40:46,280 --> 01:40:46,839
Speaker 4: Yeah, gotcha.

1990
01:40:47,200 --> 01:40:50,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, I'm looking forward to watching that. I know

1991
01:40:50,600 --> 01:40:53,400
Speaker 1: both of the experts you had on had really interesting opinions,

1992
01:40:53,400 --> 01:40:55,800
Speaker 1: So looking forward to watching that one myself. Ryan, thank

1993
01:40:55,840 --> 01:40:58,479
Speaker 1: you so much for sitting in for Soccer today, and guys,

1994
01:40:58,520 --> 01:41:00,800
Speaker 1: as we said at the top, all four of us

1995
01:41:00,840 --> 01:41:03,120
Speaker 1: are going to be on the ground in Chicago for

1996
01:41:03,280 --> 01:41:05,520
Speaker 1: the DNC, so super.

1997
01:41:05,200 --> 01:41:05,960
Speaker 4: Excited about that.

1998
01:41:06,080 --> 01:41:10,040
Speaker 1: Should be very very interesting and the show's schedule then

1999
01:41:10,080 --> 01:41:11,720
Speaker 1: will be a little bit different next week, so just

2000
01:41:11,720 --> 01:41:13,880
Speaker 1: stay tuned for that, and if you can support what

2001
01:41:13,920 --> 01:41:17,280
Speaker 1: we're doing Breakingpoints dot Com always appreciate that, and we

2002
01:41:17,280 --> 01:41:19,280
Speaker 1: will see you guys at the DNC next week.

2003
01:41:19,720 --> 01:41:20,840
Speaker 3: All I'd see you guys there