1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. Hello and welcome to 2 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: The Money Stuff Podcast, your weekly podcast where we talked 3 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:18,119 Speaker 1: about stuff related to money. I'm Matt Levina, and I 4 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:20,160 Speaker 1: write the Money Stuff column for Bloomberg Opinion. 5 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:23,279 Speaker 2: And I'm Katie Greifeld, a reporter for Bloomberg News and 6 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:25,439 Speaker 2: an anchor for Bloomberg Television. 7 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: And Today. 8 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:33,519 Speaker 2: Mail Back, I didn't even say that, all right, I 9 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:34,599 Speaker 2: said it. Don't worry about it. 10 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 1: Actually, that's what everyone wants. 11 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:39,240 Speaker 2: A lot of great questions, a lot of great questions. 12 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:41,520 Speaker 1: Thanks for sending us to your questions. They really tied 13 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: us over imperious where I'm on vacation. 14 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 2: It's also nice. Yeah, that's true. It's nice because I 15 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 2: don't think we really solicited people for questions this time around. Yeah, 16 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 2: but like not like, hey, we're recording. 17 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: Under this as standing solicitation. True. Thanks, time you have 18 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: a question, send it to us, and periodically we'll put 19 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:07,040 Speaker 1: them in a batch and think about answering them. 20 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. So shall we start off with Mark. 21 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: Sure, let's start off with Mark. Mail Bag. 22 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 2: Mail Bag Mark asks, do you think we'll see a 23 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 2: law firm do an IPO for itself in the next 24 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:22,840 Speaker 2: few years, I e. Will retail investors be able to 25 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:25,680 Speaker 2: trade shares in k and E or Paul Weiss in 26 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 2: five years. From a business model perspective, would a public 27 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:31,960 Speaker 2: company structure even makes sense. I'm sure they'd at least 28 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 2: get the disclosures right. That's funny, Mark. 29 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:36,400 Speaker 1: Are you sure I worked at a law firm. I 30 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: would make sure. So there are law firms like in 31 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 1: other countries, like I think, including in the UK, you 32 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 1: can trade shares of law firms. In the US, it 33 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: has historically been prohibited because US legal ethics suggests that 34 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 1: it's unethical for law firms to be owned by non lawyers. 35 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: This is in part for genuine ethical reasons, like you 36 00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 1: want lawyers to have fidiial duties only to their clients 37 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 1: and not to the share alders, and in part for 38 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 1: like killed protectionism reasons, where like you want lawyers to 39 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 1: to control their own terms of employment. That's changing a 40 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 1: little bit. Like you see like a few states allow 41 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 1: outside ownership of law firms, and like, yeah, we might 42 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 1: see law firm atpos in a few years. I don't know. 43 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 1: I think of a law firm as being not like 44 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 1: a super capital intensive business, where like most of what 45 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 1: a law firm is is like lawyers, and so on 46 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:31,360 Speaker 1: the one hand, that means that you don't need to 47 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: go to public markets to raise hundreds of millions of 48 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 1: dollars right to fund AI research because you're just like 49 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 1: you know, you're just doing deals and law stuff getting 50 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 1: paid by the deal. So like there's not a lot 51 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 1: of like long term investment that only pays off heres later. 52 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: That's not entirely true, right, And like you you know, 53 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:54,959 Speaker 1: I've written a little bit about like the litigation finance market, 54 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 1: and like one thing that litigation finances is law firms 55 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:04,239 Speaker 1: that take on incredibly complicated, very long term consumer class 56 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:08,920 Speaker 1: actions where they invest a lot of resources over years 57 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:13,800 Speaker 1: and don't get paid, and then five years later they 58 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 1: win some massive vertige and get paid a billion dollars. Right, 59 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: Like that sort of investment is a little bit hard 60 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 1: to do when you're just like some lawyers who need 61 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: to make a living, and so they get like outside 62 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: investors for that. And it's not like share ownership, right, 63 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: it's like a sort of special financing vehicle. But you 64 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 1: could imagine doing that in IPO forum, where you like 65 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 1: just have a publicly traded law firm that can make 66 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: long term investments. And also just like you know, there's 67 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 1: some level of long term investments that you would make 68 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: if acquiring a new team that does some kind of work, right, 69 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 1: and like you're hoping for to pay from the long term. 70 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 1: The other problem with law rooms is like because they 71 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 1: are just people, they can leave it. It'd be funny 72 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 1: to like be a law firm and go public and 73 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 1: then sell your shares and collect money and then like 74 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 1: go leave and start another law firm and do it again. Right, 75 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 1: Like there's not a ton of stuff there other than 76 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: the lawyers. Right, Like there's some fise value in the name, 77 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 1: but like probably less so than there is like a 78 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: big investment bank, and like you don't have as much 79 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 1: capital intensive business. So like if you just leave, you 80 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:18,720 Speaker 1: can capture most of the value that you previously sold 81 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 1: to investors. And you see that like where law firms like, 82 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:23,280 Speaker 1: like law firms are pretty fragile businesses, and like if 83 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:26,159 Speaker 1: a law firm runs into trouble, like it's very easy 84 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 1: for it to break up because you know, like some 85 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 1: law firm, it's like main business stops working and it's 86 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 1: not making money. Like the people who like, you know, 87 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 1: the m and a team who are really good can 88 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:37,159 Speaker 1: just go somewhere else, and like it's not that jarring 89 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 1: for them to leave, Like they don't lose a lot 90 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: of franchise value. So yeah, it's like a little bit 91 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 1: of a fragile business to take public, but people do 92 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 1: it elsewhere. 93 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,160 Speaker 2: So it kind of reminds me of publicly listed hedge funds. 94 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:48,239 Speaker 2: Like there's a lot of key Man risk there. 95 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, right, there's a lot of key Man risk, And 96 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: it's the same thing where like the assets walk out 97 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 1: the door or whatever. But like you know, hedge funds 98 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:02,280 Speaker 1: are still better because like the hedge fund has long 99 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 1: term contractual relationships with its investors. Now they might be 100 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 1: like key Man provisions and that, Like law firms don't 101 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:10,720 Speaker 1: really have that right, Like law firms like two things 102 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:12,720 Speaker 1: by engagements most of the time, like often don't have 103 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 1: like long term contracts with their customers, and so you know, 104 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: anyone can leave and take the clients with them. 105 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I wish that there were publicly listed law 106 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:22,480 Speaker 2: firms just because I think it would be interesting to 107 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 2: see how they trade and how they move as a group. 108 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 1: Like a lot of like information and law firms stock 109 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:31,839 Speaker 1: prices like now yea like law firms are under attack 110 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: and so forth. But yeah, I don't know that it's 111 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 1: a great idea for the law firms. 112 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:39,040 Speaker 2: Well, it was a great question mark. 113 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, also from Mark, I assume the same mark for Katie. 114 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 1: Would you buy a cyber horse? Kawasaki just announced one 115 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:53,280 Speaker 1: Google Kawasaki Corleo and it looks absolutely wild? 116 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 2: Well, is that all your questions are real? All my 117 00:05:56,520 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 2: questions or I do appreciate the question mark. I can 118 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 2: tell that you're not an equestrian, not so sad, not 119 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 2: just sound too much like a horse girl. It does 120 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:11,599 Speaker 2: look awesome. I did see the video. It looks like 121 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 2: a lot of fun. But having a horse is about 122 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:16,840 Speaker 2: much more than just riding it. It's about your relationship 123 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 2: with your horse, and I actually really value that. My 124 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 2: childhood pony is named Batman. He's still with us, but 125 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 2: he is very much retired. He's only a couple of 126 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 2: years younger than I am. I haven't been able to 127 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:32,160 Speaker 2: ride him since like twenty twenty. He's been out of 128 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:35,920 Speaker 2: commission and I bought the course that I currently ride, 129 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 2: whose name is Gus. I bought him, you know, as 130 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 2: a three year old in twenty one the summer of 131 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, but there was a solid year there 132 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 2: where I was just driving out to the barn to 133 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:50,039 Speaker 2: hang out with Batman, literally just hang out with him, 134 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 2: which is a lot of driving and a lot of time. 135 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 2: But it's a relationship. So I would not buy a 136 00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 2: cyber horse. 137 00:06:57,400 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 1: I like my you the bond to hang out here. 138 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 2: I just put that in the garage. 139 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 1: Would you buy the cyber horse for like riding when 140 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 1: you can't get to the barn? No, like like an 141 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 1: exercise bike when you can't get outside. 142 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 2: I don't drink, so no, I don't. I don't really think. 143 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 2: So it's not like I like if I go for 144 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 2: a long time without horseback riding, obviously I miss it 145 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 2: because it's fun. But it's like like. 146 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: When like horse treadmill in your apartment. 147 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 2: Like if I'm on vacation with my parents, for example, 148 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 2: my parents, But like people go on rides like trail 149 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 2: rides and stuff. I like having, you know, one dance partner. 150 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 2: I don't really like crave to ride any horse with 151 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 2: a robot horse. It's weird. It's like a it's a 152 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 2: long term relationship. Batman has been in my life since 153 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 2: I was eleven and I like to just have one horse, 154 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 2: one relationship at a time, so I probably wouldn't buy 155 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 2: a cyber horse. But thank you for the question mark anyway, 156 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 2: moving swiftly long. I feel like I shared part of 157 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 2: my soul there mailbag. This one comes from will he 158 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 2: says love the podcast. I have a question about private 159 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:32,680 Speaker 2: credit moving to marketplaces. It strikes me that the underlying 160 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 2: companies with this type of debt, like private equity portfolio companies, 161 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 2: have little interest in their debt trading. I worked at 162 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 2: a PE fund and now work at a portfolio company, 163 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:43,560 Speaker 2: and a lot of the value from lenders is that 164 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 2: you are a repeat client with a relationship in case 165 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:49,679 Speaker 2: you want to change the agreement e g. Or example 166 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 2: to acquisitions, or are under duress. We have debt in 167 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 2: our debt documents that debt holders are not allowed to 168 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 2: transfer their debt without our permission, which I imagine is 169 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:02,839 Speaker 2: a pretty standard term. Given the negotiating leverage hot demand 170 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 2: for lenders to issue more private credit, why would a 171 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 2: firm be okay with their debt trading. With these dynamics, 172 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 2: it seems pretty unlikely that private credit would materially move 173 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 2: to a marketplace. 174 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 1: I think that's absolutely right that, like a lot of 175 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 1: the value proposition of private credit to borrowers is you 176 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 1: will have a long term relationship with your lenders who 177 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 1: will be nice and won't sell your debt to like 178 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: distress that vultures. I'm not sure that that would prevent 179 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: a marketplace from developing. So first of all, one thing 180 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: we've seen is like quasi marketplaces for LP stakes in 181 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 1: private credit funds, which is a different thing, right, Like 182 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 1: instead of actually your debt trading, like you're still facing 183 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 1: as a barrow, You're still facing the same private credit fund, 184 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:50,680 Speaker 1: but like the ultimate owners of that fund can shift 185 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:52,080 Speaker 1: a little bit. So that's not quite the same thing 186 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 1: as a private credit marketplace, but it does like give 187 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:58,080 Speaker 1: the LPs like some ability to get liquidity and some 188 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 1: ability to get like marks like I don't know, even 189 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 1: within like the private credit like loans themselves actually treading. 190 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: You know, a polo is setting of a trading desk, right, Yeah, 191 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: I think that one thing that is possible is to 192 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 1: have some sort of marketplace where you have like the 193 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 1: bars have some ability to limit who can buy their bonds, right, 194 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:21,559 Speaker 1: And you see a little bit of this like the 195 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 1: probably syndicated loan market where like there's approved lists of 196 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 1: who can buy the loans, but you could have a 197 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 1: thing where you know, the marketplace says, you know, each 198 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:31,440 Speaker 1: bar can specify who's allowed to buy their loans, or 199 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 1: like can specify who's not allowed to buy their loans, 200 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: so like they don't get bad distress the vultures. But 201 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 1: one thing is that, like private credit is kind of 202 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:42,560 Speaker 1: new and hasn't seen like distress cycles, and like some 203 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: of the talk about like private credit is nicer to 204 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 1: companies that run into distress. Like you can imagine a 205 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 1: world where there's like a broad downturn and that stops 206 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:54,959 Speaker 1: being true because it's sort of stopped being true for 207 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 1: everyone at once. And similarly, you can imagine a world 208 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 1: where like you know, credit funds need to sell and 209 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 1: they all need to sell, and so there's like some 210 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:06,439 Speaker 1: amount of leverage for them to be like, look, we 211 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:09,839 Speaker 1: got to have ability to trade and where some more 212 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 1: trading springs up. But I agree that like in a 213 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:17,839 Speaker 1: dynamic where there's a real huge demand for paper and 214 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 1: the bars have a lot of leverage, it does seem 215 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: hard to be like we're gonna have total free tradeability 216 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: where anyone can buy your loans because like that is 217 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 1: the thing that the barers don't want. 218 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting, and I mean Apollo is, you know, 219 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 2: on one end of the spectrum, and then you have 220 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 2: like Blue Oul on maybe the opposite end, because they 221 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 2: think private credit should stay private. They're not setting up 222 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 2: a marketplace. I believe they're on the record saying that. 223 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 1: Yeah. I think everyone will talk about relationships are really important, 224 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: and like being a buy and hold investor is really important. 225 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 1: But you know, at the same time, Apolo is like, 226 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: you know, getting this to retail investors is really important. 227 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:57,559 Speaker 2: Because it'll we want this in your four one ke. 228 00:11:57,800 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, and like ultimately the pitch of that has to 229 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 1: be we can get better rates if there's more liquidity 230 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 1: and more Yeah, like a broader audience for it. Right, 231 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 1: Like at some level, if you go to a borrower 232 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 1: and you say, in exchange for not having a warm 233 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:15,439 Speaker 1: personal relationship with you for the rest of the time, 234 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:19,560 Speaker 1: we'll charge you fifty bases points less, some borrowers will 235 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 1: say into that, Yeah, I like that. 236 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 2: Will brought his own personal experience to the question as well. 237 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:29,200 Speaker 2: Great question. Will should we move along to Max Max 238 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 2: mail Bag mailbag regarding Matt's story on equity funding costs 239 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 2: increasing costs of SMP futures. This seems like a great 240 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 2: place for dot dot dot in ETF question mark two 241 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 2: exclamation points. I think the ETFs that sell zero day 242 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 2: options are very fun and selling S and P futures 243 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:51,680 Speaker 2: then collecting the spreads does seem to rhyme with this 244 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 2: in some way. Could an ETF do this while still 245 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 2: being liquid and tradable? Does this already exist in the 246 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 2: form of covered call ETFs or is selling future is 247 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 2: different in some way ps. I'm a molecular biologist, not 248 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 2: a finance person, so sorry, this question is totally obvious 249 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 2: to exclamation points. That was charming, Max, So I love this. 250 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 1: So we talked on the podcast last week about the 251 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 1: basis trade. Yeah, this is the basis trade for S 252 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:18,720 Speaker 1: and P five hundred futures, right, Like, this is the 253 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 1: trade here is that people want to buy S and 254 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 1: P five hundred futures to basically like LeVert exposure to 255 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 1: the S and P, and it is hard for them 256 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 1: to do that because nobody or banks don't want to 257 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 1: use their balance sheet to buy the S and P 258 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:36,959 Speaker 1: and sell futures against it right, Like, so someone needs 259 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:39,839 Speaker 1: to provide the funding to buy the S and P, 260 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 1: buy the actual stocks and then sell the futures to 261 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 1: people who want to buy the futures. Who should provide 262 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: that Well, one answer is money market funds basically like 263 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 1: that trade. It's not a stock trade. It's just like 264 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 1: a cash trade. It's like lending balance sheet to provide 265 00:13:57,040 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 1: people with access to the stocks. So you buy stocks, 266 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:01,679 Speaker 1: you sell stock futures. You have no risk. You're just 267 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 1: like providing funding. And if, as has been the case, 268 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 1: that funding is expensive because like no one wants banks 269 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:10,439 Speaker 1: don't want to do it, and there's a lot to 270 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 1: demand for these futures, then you can get paid a 271 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 1: lot for providing that funding. And the reason it's like 272 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 1: no one wants to do it and it's expensive. This 273 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 1: is kind of a weird trade, right. If you are 274 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 1: a money market fund, someone can come to you and 275 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 1: be like, look, what you should do is you should 276 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 1: buy the S and P and sell S and P 277 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 1: futures and you'll get paid a very high cash return 278 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 1: for that, and you can get at any time you want. 279 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 1: It's like a money market investment. You'd say, no, it's 280 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 1: not a money market investment. I'm not allowed to buy stocks, 281 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 1: I'm not allowed to sell futures, Like none of this 282 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 1: is allowed, and so money market funds don't do it. 283 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 1: And you know, I wrote about this because like there 284 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 1: was a story about like some like long only fund 285 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 1: managers who have like some ability to be pretty tactical. 286 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 1: They're like, yeah, we're doing that instead of buying treasury 287 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 1: bills or doing repo or whatever, we are buying the 288 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 1: S and P and selling futures and getting paid you know, 289 00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 1: ten percent instead of four percent. But not a lot 290 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 1: doing that. And so the question here is white not 291 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 1: an ETF. And it reminds me of do you remember 292 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 1: the ETF called the box boxs CAET So this is 293 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 1: the same thing, right, box is like a crazy trade 294 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 1: where it's like they like buy and sell options to 295 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 1: get cash returns and have no equity risk and also 296 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 1: they think get a really good tax treatmental though that 297 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 1: is highly debated. But this is the same thing, right. 298 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 1: It's like boxes, Like basically there is demand for lending 299 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 1: in the options market, and we are going to be 300 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 1: the lender into the options market. We're not buying options 301 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 1: selling options. We're not doing any options trades. I mean 302 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 1: we are, but like not to do options trades. We're 303 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 1: doing them just to be a lender into the options market, 304 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 1: because the options market will pay more for cash than 305 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 1: like treasure reboil markets. Well, and this is the same thing. 306 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 1: It's like the S and P five hundred futures market 307 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 1: right now will pay for cash. So someone should set 308 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 1: up a ETF that will provide that cash. I think 309 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: the reason there's not an need dev for this probably 310 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: when lunching next week. But like I think the reason 311 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 1: there's not an ETF is like it is not at 312 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 1: all clear that this is a permanent trade right right, 313 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: Like this can go away at any time, and so 314 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 1: it's a little weird to set up an ETF that 315 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: will do this trade for years. 316 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 2: If like you know flash in the pan. 317 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, Like it's a little tending to be like there 318 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: should be a weird cash trade ETF. Like you have 319 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: an ETF that's like we're a money market ETF, but 320 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 1: like we're not constrained to regular money market instrments, so 321 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 1: we can do anything that's like a short term cash investment. Yeah, 322 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 1: And like when S and P five hundred future is 323 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 1: basis is wide will do that trade and like when 324 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 1: something else works, we'll do something else. 325 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I hear what you're saying that you know, 326 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 2: it's hard to know if this is permanent. To that point, 327 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 2: I'm really surprised that there isn't a treasury basis trade ETF. 328 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:49,920 Speaker 2: Not that because I think it should exist, because there's 329 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 2: so many opportunistic filers. 330 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: That trade is we borrow a hundred times, are an 331 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 1: asset value to buy treasure? You can't do that in ATF. 332 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 2: There's some issuers that I talked too often. I wouldn't 333 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 2: put it past them. 334 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 1: Now I would put it past them, but you're not 335 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:04,879 Speaker 1: allowed to do that. 336 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 2: I'll see. 337 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 1: I feel like you're foreshadowing actual basis. 338 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 2: Max, great question, Good luck with the biology. 339 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 1: Mail bag. 340 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:36,920 Speaker 2: Mail bag, all right, Sal Sal has a question. Sel 341 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 2: asks what is the value of the option to declare 342 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 2: personal bankruptcy and how would you monetize it? Couldn't investor 343 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:45,919 Speaker 2: recruit a bunch of eighteen year olds to take levered risks. 344 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: I feel the option really is very low because you 345 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 1: can't get that much money when you're eighteen. The question is, 346 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:54,680 Speaker 1: in general, if you borrow money, you have to pay 347 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:56,399 Speaker 1: it back and so if you borrow money to buy 348 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 1: lottery tickets and you lose all the money, then you're 349 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:01,119 Speaker 1: in trouble because you have to pay back all the 350 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 1: money and you're allowed you types didn't pan out, But 351 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:06,560 Speaker 1: if you declare bankruptcy, then you don't have to pay 352 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:09,719 Speaker 1: the money back. This is the theory, right, you effectively 353 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:12,640 Speaker 1: like can structure your financial life like a call option, 354 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:14,879 Speaker 1: where like if everything works out, you get all the upside, 355 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:17,160 Speaker 1: and if it doesn't work out, you don't get any 356 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 1: of the downside because you declare bankruptcy and move on. Now, 357 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: there are several problems that it's one of those, like 358 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:25,119 Speaker 1: declaring markruptcy is in some ways a downside, Right, I 359 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 1: don't necessarily want to declare bankruptcy. And the reason that 360 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:31,680 Speaker 1: sal asks about eighteen year olds is that, like, if 361 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 1: you're forty six and have a house, you probably don't 362 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:39,400 Speaker 1: want to declare bankruptcy if it only get to keep 363 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:41,879 Speaker 1: your house. But that's not legal advice. But like, you know, 364 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 1: your life will get worse if you declare personal bankrupcy, 365 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 1: whereas if you're eighteen, your life may not get significantly 366 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 1: worse if you declared personal vanqucy. But that's why they 367 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 1: won't lend you money, like you can only borrow so 368 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: much money when you're eighteen, because they know that this 369 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 1: option exists. And the one huge exception to that is 370 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 1: student loans. They're not dischargeable in bankruptcy. Yeah, it's like 371 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:06,479 Speaker 1: you can borrow hundreds of thousand dollars an eighteen year 372 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 1: old to go to college, not because that's a particularly 373 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:11,879 Speaker 1: get credit risk, but because like you're not allowed to 374 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 1: get rid of that debt yikes. Yeah. And then the 375 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:16,639 Speaker 1: other part of the question is could an investor recruit 376 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:18,639 Speaker 1: a bunch of eighteen year olds to take levered risks? 377 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 1: Like even if you could do that, and like you'd 378 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 1: structure to deal with them, like someone would define you 379 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 1: and be like, this wasn't really an eighteen year old 380 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:29,360 Speaker 1: borrowing this money. This was you, the investor, borrowing the money, 381 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 1: and then they kind of look through it and get 382 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:33,280 Speaker 1: you to pay it back. So I think that it 383 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:36,880 Speaker 1: is pretty hard to monetize the option to declare personal bankruptcy. 384 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:41,119 Speaker 1: But one reason I wanted to ask this question on 385 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: the show is I'm sure we will get emails people 386 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,640 Speaker 1: who are like, this is how I monetize the option 387 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 1: to declare personal vankruptcy. 388 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 2: It's beautiful and we can talk about that in our 389 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 2: next meal Bag episode possibly. 390 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:55,479 Speaker 1: Or even in the regular episode. 391 00:19:55,640 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 2: That's true, that's true. The possibilities are limitless. Mail mail Bag. 392 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 1: Here's a question from John on the podcast. Some time ago. 393 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:09,440 Speaker 1: Katie quipped that she might name a kid Xanadu someday. 394 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 1: I feel like Katie would be more likely to name 395 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:15,879 Speaker 1: kids hers or other people's after ETF tickers. What ETF 396 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:19,359 Speaker 1: tickers would be the best children's names? What about horses names? 397 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 1: I don't know that we have an answer to this question, 398 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:22,240 Speaker 1: but it was a funny question. 399 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:23,679 Speaker 2: John. I'm not sure if I like the way your 400 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 2: brain works. 401 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:28,400 Speaker 1: But what do we doing about Katie ets? 402 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 2: Yeah? So, no, I don't think I would. No one's 403 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:34,879 Speaker 2: asking me to name their children, and I actually have 404 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 2: a lot of children's names that I love. 405 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 1: Okay, they don't have to be ets. 406 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:42,680 Speaker 2: John Corrado is a name that I would love to unleash. 407 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 2: At some point, I loved it. I love the name 408 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 2: Corrado so much. It's like an old Italian name made 409 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 2: famous by the Sopranos. I feel like you can't name 410 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:55,360 Speaker 2: just a kid your first name Coroto anymore. You don't 411 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 2: really hear it, but if you put John in front 412 00:20:57,480 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 2: of it, then he becomes J. C. John Carrato. 413 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 1: I love that it's answer. 414 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:04,359 Speaker 2: I think about this a lot, and then I have 415 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,439 Speaker 2: a lot of ladies' names that I like. I guess girls' names. 416 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 2: In terms of ETF tickers, there are some fun ETF 417 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 2: tickers out there, none that I would name a child 418 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:17,960 Speaker 2: or a horse after. I'm sure there's a GUS ticker 419 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 2: out there, and if not, maybe there should be. I 420 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:24,160 Speaker 2: love the name Gus for a horse, for a horse 421 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 2: for a kid too, but it'd be weird to name 422 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:32,919 Speaker 2: your child after your horse. Probably certain husbands would might 423 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:34,160 Speaker 2: take issue. 424 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 1: With that uncertainty when you referred to guess. 425 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. At first, I thought this question was 426 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 2: you know, what is an ETF ticker that you think 427 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 2: should exist, which is not this question. But I have 428 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:51,360 Speaker 2: an answer to the question that wasn't asked. There's all these, 429 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 2: not all these, but there's been a lot of interest 430 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 2: in Texas lately from the ETF community. Blackrock filed for 431 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 2: a Texas equity ETF a few weeks back, and it 432 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:05,920 Speaker 2: wasn't listed with a ticker. The ticker, y'all is already taken. 433 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:12,160 Speaker 2: I think why H A W would be cute? Like ehaw, Yeah, 434 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:16,119 Speaker 2: So Larry Fink front of the show. If you're listening, 435 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 2: there we have it, mail nail bag Neil rounding us out. 436 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 2: Listening to Friday's money stuff got me to wondering, why 437 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 2: not just split the difference and put a bunch of 438 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:31,359 Speaker 2: different BDCs into an ETF. All the exposure to private 439 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 2: credit and the BDC assets, all the shiny exchange traded 440 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:38,240 Speaker 2: rapper that the kids today enjoy something for met, something 441 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:43,199 Speaker 2: for Katie met Neil rather, Neil, I like how your 442 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 2: brain works. 443 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:49,640 Speaker 1: This definitely exists. There's one minute of googling family bus 444 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,439 Speaker 1: D which is the van k b DC income ETF, 445 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:56,439 Speaker 1: which is in fact BDCs for I know there's millions 446 00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 1: of them. Yeah. I have said that BDCs are the 447 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,160 Speaker 1: publicly traded form of private credit, and so you don't 448 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 1: need the convolutions of putting private credits intof because you 449 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 1: can just have a BDC. There's like some limits on that, 450 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:13,679 Speaker 1: Like BDCs are not like the full spectrum of private credit, right, 451 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 1: They're like sort of designed for small and medium enterprises. Yeah, 452 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,160 Speaker 1: so it's like not exactly the same as saying every 453 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 1: private credit fund could be wrapped in public form as 454 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,639 Speaker 1: a BDC, but many can and are, And there are 455 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:27,920 Speaker 1: BDCs for a lot of the big private credit funds, 456 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 1: and you can eat them if you want. Yeah, should 457 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:33,680 Speaker 1: I say that? I was going to say if I 458 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:38,440 Speaker 1: said what a BDC is doesn't matter, that's true. 459 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 2: Thirty seven of the Mailbag episode for the Money So podcast. 460 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:50,920 Speaker 1: We're on like you're oh, yeah, it's like the anniversary, Happy. 461 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 2: Universary, Happy universary. It was actually last week's episode, which 462 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:56,680 Speaker 2: we recorded today. 463 00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:58,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, we're recording them simultaneously. 464 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 2: So we just passed that back again on April twelfth. 465 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, between last week's episode and this week's episode 466 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,440 Speaker 1: Money Stuff, the podcast turned one. 467 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, it is crazy that it's been that long. Yeah, 468 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:20,120 Speaker 2: you've listened to the last episode. Have a good life. 469 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 1: We won the bet. Now it's over. And that was 470 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 1: the Money Stuff Podcast. 471 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:34,320 Speaker 2: I'm Matt Levian and I'm Katie Greifeld. 472 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 1: You can find my work by subscribing to the Money 473 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:38,440 Speaker 1: Stuff newsletter on Bloomberg. 474 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 2: Dot com, and you can find me on Bloomberg TV 475 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:44,359 Speaker 2: every day on Open Interest between nine to eleven am Eastern. 476 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 1: We'd love to hear from you. You can send an 477 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 1: email to Moneypot at bloomberg dot net, ask us a 478 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 1: question and you might answer it on air. 479 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:53,879 Speaker 2: You can also subscribe to our show wherever you're listening 480 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 2: right now and leave us a review. It helps more 481 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 2: people find the show. 482 00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 1: The Money Stuff Podcast is produced by Anamazarakis and Moses 483 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 1: on On. 484 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:03,479 Speaker 2: Our theme music was composed by Blake Maples. 485 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 1: Brandon Francis Newdim is our executive producer, and. 486 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,360 Speaker 2: Stage Bauman is Bloomberg's head of Podcasts. 487 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:10,800 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to The Money Stuff Podcast. We'll be 488 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 1: back next week with more stuff