Speaker 1: I'm d Mallory and the ship Boy, my son that general.
Speaker 1: We are your host of TMI.
Speaker 2: Tamika and my Son's Information, Truth, motivation and inspiration.
Speaker 3: New Name, New Energy.
Speaker 2: Yes, it was my birthday. We just left my birthday.
Speaker 2: Had we just left my birthday. We just ended tourist season,
Speaker 2: and tourist season was amazing. It's my birthday, the amazing
Speaker 2: Malcolm X. Macael you're listen to me, Malcolm XE the
Speaker 2: holiday right like she needed holiday, you know, on one
Speaker 2: twenty fifth Street, on Malcolm X's birthday, they shut the
Speaker 2: street down from one to four, all of the stores
Speaker 2: from I don't know exactly where it starts at, but
Speaker 2: all the way from probably like fifth Avenue to like
Speaker 2: Saint Nick. They shut all the stores down and then
Speaker 2: the doors are open. In respect, out of respect to
Speaker 2: Malcolm X. But I think it should be a national holiday,
Speaker 2: like he's done so much and what he's meant to
Speaker 2: our coach, especially black culture.
Speaker 4: It needs to be a natural.
Speaker 2: But it was beautiful to watch all of these big
Speaker 2: storage foot locker and all of these stores closed down
Speaker 2: in respect. I was in the gym working out, you know,
Speaker 2: in Harlem, and he's likely we shutting down.
Speaker 4: We shutting down. You gotta come back at four o'clock.
Speaker 2: So my tourist brother, Malcolm Mix, we appreciate you, God,
Speaker 2: we love you.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I had a beautiful birthday, had a dinner. Friends
Speaker 2: was there, showed a lot of love, beautiful birthday cake.
Speaker 4: Birthday cake was fire. Then Mike that beatcake. Shout to
Speaker 4: beat Cake. That Mike with that chain.
Speaker 3: Cake, New York.
Speaker 4: That thing was fire man.
Speaker 1: Marriam is over there. She's the owner and she does
Speaker 1: a really good job. She's really community oriented. Also, she's
Speaker 1: a good chick.
Speaker 4: Dope dope.
Speaker 2: Birthday and my next Now, listen that happened. All happened,
Speaker 2: and said, listen my birthday. The Knicks clinched to go
Speaker 2: to the conference finals the first time in twenty five years.
Speaker 2: Shout out to Jameen Brunson, Shout out to call Anthony Towns,
Speaker 2: Shout out to the whole team. Man, it was just
Speaker 2: a ten.
Speaker 3: You got to see Carmelo.
Speaker 2: Then I seen Melo. Yo, listen, this was just a
Speaker 2: full circle thing. That the next day, I was at
Speaker 2: Afro Preak in Baltimore where I see my brother Carmelo
Speaker 2: Anthony and I congratulated him because it's the first time
Speaker 2: I seen him since he's been inducted into the Hall
Speaker 2: of Fame. Shout out to Carmelo, him around. Listen, Carmelo
Speaker 2: is in my top three players of all time, and it's.
Speaker 4: Allan Iverson, Carmelo and Kyrie. These are my favorite three players.
Speaker 2: Everybody, anybody who knows me knows that those are the
Speaker 2: people I don't play about. And it was before that.
Speaker 2: It was Isaiah Thomas. So it was Isaiah, it was
Speaker 2: Alan Iverson, and then we went to Carmelo, and now
Speaker 2: Kyrie is probably pretty much my favorite because it's it's
Speaker 2: soul times.
Speaker 3: But why Carmelo don't play basketball anymore?
Speaker 2: Melo said, I just heard him do an interview the
Speaker 2: other day when he was talking about he was supposed
Speaker 2: to retire on his twentieth season, you know, he said
Speaker 2: he was doing twenty season, that's what he wanted to do.
Speaker 5: But he didn't.
Speaker 2: He retired right at the beginning of his nineteen season
Speaker 2: because he said he was going to retire when his
Speaker 2: son got into high school because he wanted to focus,
Speaker 2: and that was a thing he said, and he said
Speaker 2: it was time for.
Speaker 4: Him to just leave the game.
Speaker 2: You know, and he wanted to do it, but he said,
Speaker 2: when my son get in high school, that's what I'm done.
Speaker 2: And he said it was time for him to do
Speaker 2: it because that's the word he gave his son was
Speaker 2: like that got had he gave.
Speaker 4: He gave him an extra year.
Speaker 2: He said he actually was going to retire around eighteenth,
Speaker 2: but he went an extra year.
Speaker 4: But he didn't get to that twenty. So that was his.
Speaker 2: Reasoning for why he didn't finish out his twentieth season.
Speaker 2: Lebron is in his twentieth season now, so you know,
Speaker 2: just understanding it's a lot the twenties playing basketball at
Speaker 2: the level in the NBA for twenty years. There's a
Speaker 2: lot of way in tee. He just really wanted to
Speaker 2: say he wanted to pour into his son.
Speaker 4: He wanted to.
Speaker 2: Definitely gonna be big time. He's one of the top
Speaker 2: players in the nation, so shut out to him. Man.
Speaker 4: It was just a beautiful experience.
Speaker 2: And and the Knicks is in the finals, like just watching
Speaker 2: them win and it was a blowout.
Speaker 4: Boston got smacked. Smacked in the garden, you know what
Speaker 4: I'm saying.
Speaker 2: We was like right down the block, we in the
Speaker 2: chop house and he was getting smacked in the garden,
Speaker 2: so the whole city was just lit up.
Speaker 4: It was just a beautiful time, man, you know.
Speaker 2: And I'm just happy for the next trying to see
Speaker 2: if we can get some seats somewhere, maybe in the
Speaker 2: nosebleed something. I just want to be in the garden
Speaker 2: just to feel that energy. So anybody who got a
Speaker 2: ticket for me, lesson, I'm here my birthday. The game
Speaker 2: is actually tonight, you know, and I got my Knicks
Speaker 2: stuff on. I'm gonna be out there, probably scoy buys.
Speaker 2: You got a ticket, I do gonna need anything. I'm
Speaker 2: still taking presents for my birthday. So if you got
Speaker 2: some Nick tickets, hit me up there. It's gonna be
Speaker 2: too late. I'll gonna see this too late. But anyway,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be out there anyway. And by the time
Speaker 2: this is you're gonna be like.
Speaker 5: Wow, the next is gonna kill.
Speaker 4: So the next don't kill. So love them the Knicks.
Speaker 4: What you got to say.
Speaker 3: I'm very happy. Of course, I'm from New York. It's
Speaker 3: New York. We would it love it amazing. You don't
Speaker 3: know anything that be going on. I know, a little bit,
Speaker 3: a little bit a little bit, a little bit of basketball.
Speaker 1: I used to have season tickets. I used to go
Speaker 1: to basketball games all the time. And uh so, now
Speaker 1: what I do is I clap when everybody else clap,
Speaker 1: and then I'm in the mix, and that's it.
Speaker 3: I'm happy. Yay Go New York brings me to my
Speaker 3: thought of the day.
Speaker 1: So on a more serious note, I was thinking about,
Speaker 1: you know, and I'm I think one of the things
Speaker 1: that I pray God has given me that makes me
Speaker 1: a leader and a better person every day. It's not
Speaker 1: that I always make the right decisions. It's not that
Speaker 1: I always see things the right way, and it's not
Speaker 1: that I don't live my life like everybody else, which
Speaker 1: is in contradiction, right Like I always say that to
Speaker 1: you that I feel like we have to acknowledge it
Speaker 1: though that you know what, I don't see this the
Speaker 1: same way that I would if you were not my friend,
Speaker 1: or you were not somebody that I admire or you know,
Speaker 1: or if it didn't benefit me in some way. I
Speaker 1: you know, and we have to acknowledge that. It's not
Speaker 1: that it will change the outcome will change how you feel,
Speaker 1: but it will at least keep you honest to yourself,
Speaker 1: you know, And I think that's and I think that's
Speaker 1: really important, and so on each one of the situations
Speaker 1: that I'm bringing up, I have various feelings myself, right,
Speaker 1: you know, I am deeply crushed by the entire situation
Speaker 1: with Puff and Cassie and this whole case. I'm comp
Speaker 1: completely crushed by it. Listening to or reading testimony hurts.
Speaker 1: I'll never be able to unsee the video. Having somebody
Speaker 1: as influential as Puffed, somebody who I have a very
Speaker 1: good relationship with, end up in the situation that he's in,
Speaker 1: is painful, you know. Knowing that those kids could lose
Speaker 1: their father for life in terms of him being in prison.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's so many dynamics that a person who
Speaker 1: is a little more up close. I'm not in the house,
Speaker 1: so it's not that, but a person a little bit
Speaker 1: more up close that spent a lot of time talking
Speaker 1: to you and you know, working with you in different things.
Speaker 3: It hurts.
Speaker 1: It hurts, And that's all I say. People are like, oh,
Speaker 1: what are you that it hurts? You know, And I
Speaker 1: think that people believe that when we are public figures,
Speaker 1: that we're not human. Some stuff just hurts. I don't
Speaker 1: even know what to say, right, You don't even know
Speaker 1: the right words to use, except to say that it
Speaker 1: hurts and everything that is playing out in this trial.
Speaker 1: When it's your friend and somebody you love that is
Speaker 1: being accused of some really really horrific things, you can
Speaker 1: literally just say, this is very painful.
Speaker 3: It is very painful.
Speaker 1: And to the extent that any of this stuff is true,
Speaker 1: which I am absolutely inclined to believe that some part
Speaker 1: of it is, that's even more painful, right, And so
Speaker 1: I just have to keep reminding people of that because
Speaker 1: I see folks in my comments and my dms, why
Speaker 1: are you not saying anything about this or that? I
Speaker 1: don't know where y'all what y'all consider to be friendships.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Like I'm not getting ready to go out here and
Speaker 1: be in the free Diddy T shirt, right, Like that's
Speaker 1: not something that you will see happen. But I'm also
Speaker 1: a human person that has the right to say that
Speaker 1: as a that it takes a lot to process, especially
Speaker 1: when you've never witnessed this side of a human being
Speaker 1: that you care about, and then these are the things
Speaker 1: that's being stated about them, Like I don't know why
Speaker 1: people don't understand enough to say. It's like a mother
Speaker 1: who finds out that her child or hears that her child,
Speaker 1: her child is being accused of killing three people and
Speaker 1: doing all this stuff. You could be like, damn, this
Speaker 1: is really messed up. But if you're expecting the mother
Speaker 1: to come outside and be like, oh, you know, I
Speaker 1: hate my child, that gener really doesn't really happen. And
Speaker 1: so I have to put that at the forefront. I
Speaker 1: don't want people to think that I'm afraid, or that
Speaker 1: you know, I'm I'm naive, or or any of that.
Speaker 1: You know, I think that's important. I want to be honest,
Speaker 1: so I think that's important. So that's one. It's Cassie right,
Speaker 1: one woman that I want to reference is my thought today.
Speaker 1: Then you have Hailey Bailey and DDG, which Haley Bailey
Speaker 1: hasn't said anything right, but in that situation, I don't
Speaker 1: know either one of them, but I love both of them.
Speaker 1: I think they're so cute, you know, cute kids, and
Speaker 1: I pray for both of them. But I can tell
Speaker 1: you that having a son at that age, you feel like, damn,
Speaker 1: understanding everything. We done have fights as young people, fighting
Speaker 1: and carrying on do you want to see this young
Speaker 1: boy's entire life fall apart because of an incident that
Speaker 1: none of us were Therefore, we don't know exactly what happened,
Speaker 1: and it's possible that he was abusive, right, it's possible
Speaker 1: if that's what she said, it's possible that she he was.
Speaker 3: It's also it also.
Speaker 1: Could be that he you know, they got into it
Speaker 1: back and forth and he pushed or did whatever he did,
Speaker 1: which is something that generally would be behind closed doors
Speaker 1: and we would never know and you wouldn't lose your
Speaker 1: job or whatever as a result of it. Then you
Speaker 1: have the situation with Meg and Tory, which I have
Speaker 1: very very strong views about a lot of things around
Speaker 1: that situation. Right, So, when I think about my own
Speaker 1: personal contradictions, the way that I can move through various
Speaker 1: feelings depending on who the people are and what the
Speaker 1: situation is, I really have to ask myself, how is
Speaker 1: it that three different women in one week are telling
Speaker 1: their stories of abuse or harm and all three of
Speaker 1: them have been considered to be liars by a large,
Speaker 1: large group of folks. How is it that three different
Speaker 1: women tell their stories and I'm not saying it's the
Speaker 1: whole word, because I'm sure they are more people who
Speaker 1: believe them and support them, but there is a large
Speaker 1: movement that as soon as some of these women speak,
Speaker 1: the world says didn't happen.
Speaker 2: I understand exactly what you're saying, but I think it's
Speaker 2: relative to where we're looking for the information. Right when
Speaker 2: we look in social media. Social media is a cess
Speaker 2: pool of negativity, you know, especially in the social media
Speaker 2: we look at, they demonize women and black women all
Speaker 2: the time, no matter what they say.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 2: But I think if we look at a large scale,
Speaker 2: there are many people, like you said, there are many
Speaker 2: people that say this had to happen, or we believe
Speaker 2: these people.
Speaker 4: So there's going to be when you put something in.
Speaker 2: A court of public opinion, everybody's bringing their own biases, right,
Speaker 2: Like you said, based on your situations. Some people are
Speaker 2: DDG fans, some people are Halle fans, right, so they
Speaker 2: both their fans are gonna be like, oh, he's lying,
Speaker 2: she's lying, So that's what's gonna happen.
Speaker 3: I don't know if it's all fans either, my son.
Speaker 1: I think that there are there is there is there
Speaker 1: are people who might not even know DDG didn't care
Speaker 1: nothing about Torri. Maybe they know Puff, maybe they don't.
Speaker 1: Maybe they like him, maybe they don't, but they are
Speaker 1: instinctively conditioned to say that if these women, if these
Speaker 1: men are in any kind of trouble because of what
Speaker 1: these women say, that is to bring a black man down.
Speaker 2: Well, I don't I don't think that in Puff. I
Speaker 2: think Puff has lost in the court of public opinion.
Speaker 2: I think he was demonised immediately after the videotape. Come people,
Speaker 2: he lost all support. You don't you don't see anybody.
Speaker 2: I don't see one person publicly.
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 3: Now all of a sudden, you got Boozy and different
Speaker 3: people because.
Speaker 2: Basing off evident things that he's listening to, he's basically
Speaker 2: saying that, based on this evidence that happened here, did
Speaker 2: I see it looked like Cassie was involved than the
Speaker 2: same shit that we and a lot of people look
Speaker 2: and say she might. She did not deserve to be beat.
Speaker 2: You know, we don't know the level of controls yet,
Speaker 2: but when based off just relationships that the average man
Speaker 2: has with a woman, if and were looking at these
Speaker 2: the level of communication that they had, it looked like
Speaker 2: two people that was engaged in the swinger lifestyle, you know,
Speaker 2: and that's how they lived.
Speaker 4: It was toxic. He was abusive to us. He beat
Speaker 4: her ass.
Speaker 2: And that's one hundred percent wrong. But nobody most people
Speaker 2: don't believe that he was forcing her to engage in sex.
Speaker 2: They just and there are people who say that she did.
Speaker 2: They believe she did. He controlled her mind. But there's
Speaker 2: gonna be a dynamic of people that say that they
Speaker 2: don't believe it.
Speaker 1: But that's okay, Well that's fine, and that situation. You know,
Speaker 1: there are going to be people who say that she
Speaker 1: was definitely a willing participant in all of that.
Speaker 3: So we're not going there.
Speaker 1: But as long as people understand, I think that's why
Speaker 1: it's important that the guests that we have coming up
Speaker 1: today that he's not being charge of forcing her to
Speaker 1: have sex per se.
Speaker 3: That is not the.
Speaker 2: Center of but those are the criterias under with sex
Speaker 2: trafficking is it's either cohersion or.
Speaker 1: Force cohersion and that and that cohersion is very very.
Speaker 3: Danced, it's nuanced.
Speaker 2: Cohersion means that you didn't want to do it, and
Speaker 2: I convinced you beyond outside of your normal realm. I
Speaker 2: did something to put you in a position or or
Speaker 2: inspire you or motivate you that was to do something
Speaker 2: that was against your business.
Speaker 1: But I'm not sure. I'm not sure which we'll have
Speaker 1: to get into. But I'm not sure if sex trafficking
Speaker 1: is only about force, because I think that a person
Speaker 1: could be a willing participant, but if they are paid.
Speaker 1: That's why I keep trying to tell people that Cassie
Speaker 1: is well, she was paid to have but that's not
Speaker 1: what we see. Everybody continues We're looking at that case
Speaker 1: the wrong way because everybody is continuing to say she
Speaker 1: he didn't pay her this and the third that is
Speaker 1: not what he's being accused of. Right, sex trafficking might
Speaker 1: extend beyond Cassie to whether or not sex workers are
Speaker 1: part of that.
Speaker 3: We don't know.
Speaker 1: We have to wait and see what is at the
Speaker 1: end result and throughout well each.
Speaker 3: Because when I was because I want to know if.
Speaker 2: The indictment is saying that he sex traffic Cassie, or
Speaker 2: he sex trafficked these other people. If he's saying as
Speaker 2: he tracks sex trafficked her, if she was one of
Speaker 2: the victims of sex trafficking.
Speaker 1: It might see where people feel like it's definitely they
Speaker 1: don't see it. I see what you're saying on that,
Speaker 1: but I do think that I do think that sex
Speaker 1: trafficking from what I read, because I really have been
Speaker 1: trying to understand because I know that our instincts, depending
Speaker 1: on our experiences, like as a as a survivor of
Speaker 1: domestic abuse, sexual abuse, my instincts sometimes can be my
Speaker 1: instincts can take me in a direction that facts don't
Speaker 1: even matter. You get what I'm saying, because I just
Speaker 1: know what I've what I it's a trigger. But then
Speaker 1: sometimes again that's what I'm saying. I want to be
Speaker 1: very clear about the contradiction that your it's like your
Speaker 1: body goes through many many things because just hearing it
Speaker 1: makes you be like, oh my god, like I can't
Speaker 1: even fathom this, and and and facts don't matter. But
Speaker 1: then when you know somebody, you begin to say, well,
Speaker 1: I don't see them that way. You know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: So you go through all of that. But I'm just
Speaker 1: saying when I saw in order to temper my own mindset,
Speaker 1: I've been reading and in sex trafficking, the prostitute can
Speaker 1: tell you I'm with it, but if they got paid
Speaker 1: and moved through state a state, moved to another state
Speaker 1: that is trafficking, and so you know, I don't know,
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's if this prostitute was strictly
Speaker 2: for the use of sex and you're paying her to
Speaker 2: have sex.
Speaker 1: Or he or him or whatever. But y'all will say
Speaker 1: it never happens. You never hear when a man thing.
Speaker 3: Okay, that's not even no, no women.
Speaker 1: You wanted somebody to pull up that women have been
Speaker 1: accused of sex trafficking and they have, I mean and
Speaker 1: convicted of young boys.
Speaker 3: Yes, oh yeah, that has happened.
Speaker 1: But anyway, let's let me get my so my thought
Speaker 1: of the day is specifically around the idea that there
Speaker 1: are three women who all three of them are telling
Speaker 1: their stories of abuse, and there's a large group of
Speaker 1: people in our society who instinctively have said that these
Speaker 1: women are lying or exaggerating their situations. And I wonder
Speaker 1: right whether or not we are fostering an environment where
Speaker 1: women will just completely stop telling their stories.
Speaker 4: That's very that's a very serious thing.
Speaker 1: And I know men ain't gonna tell their story because
Speaker 1: we don't even believe men can say they were sexually assaulted.
Speaker 1: People don't believe it, people laugh at men, people tell
Speaker 1: you don't say it, and.
Speaker 3: It's really hard.
Speaker 1: It's so hard to reconcile all of that when you
Speaker 1: know that, you know, women have are often accused of
Speaker 1: lying or whatever. You deal with that, and then at
Speaker 1: the same time you want to believe women.
Speaker 3: It's like, who is so much?
Speaker 1: And you want to protect the brothers because you got
Speaker 1: the brothers who are like yo, they always you know,
Speaker 1: take us down or whatever. It's so many dynamics and
Speaker 1: I just wonder if there are which I believe, I
Speaker 1: know there are women out there who are just like
Speaker 1: you know what, I was thinking about saying this happened
Speaker 1: to me or he did this to me. But I
Speaker 1: think I'll just be quiet. And some people will say, well,
Speaker 1: that's a good thing because it'll stop folks from lying
Speaker 1: and you know, from making up stories on people or
Speaker 1: exaggerating stories. But is that what we want for our daughters.
Speaker 1: I don't know how. I don't know how. I don't
Speaker 1: have an answer to this. I just know that it's
Speaker 1: very problematic when people can look and see where if
Speaker 1: these women are all not believe that they are all
Speaker 1: lying they're all fabricating, they're all whatever. Then I don't
Speaker 1: have a chance, So I might as well just be
Speaker 1: quiet and just take my abuse on the chin or
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I mean, I want anyone who's been assaulted, who's had
Speaker 2: you know, someone take advantage of them, to be able
Speaker 2: to feel comfortable coming forward, you know. But at the
Speaker 2: same time, you don't want that to be weaponized against
Speaker 2: men if they're not engaging in that activity. So we
Speaker 2: just gotta find you know, we got to find a
Speaker 2: way to be able to sipher out the truth and
Speaker 2: be able to and it's it's it's very hard, right
Speaker 2: because it's people like you saying, prior to you watching,
Speaker 2: did he on on the camera putting his hands on
Speaker 2: Cassie or or getting any information?
Speaker 4: This is not the person you know, right? You know
Speaker 4: that's not did you know? You know? This kind person,
Speaker 4: funny person who embraced you, should you love?
Speaker 3: So that's what we all, we all are you want
Speaker 3: to believe.
Speaker 2: And that's what we all face with every time we're
Speaker 2: faced with, especially when you look at lodging life individuals.
Speaker 2: We're faced with the fact like, nah, this can't be
Speaker 2: this person because this is my favorite rapper, this is
Speaker 2: my favorite basketball He couldn't be that type of person
Speaker 2: because we have this image of those individuals in our minds,
Speaker 2: so we want to give them a benefit of doubt.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: We don't want to believe that our favorite singer would
Speaker 2: lie about somebody putting their hands on them. We want
Speaker 2: to believe so that everybody wants to believe. And in
Speaker 2: the court of public opinion, that's what it is. But
Speaker 2: in the reality it's based off when these situations happen,
Speaker 2: it's a case that goes to court and right and
Speaker 2: they have to draw out the facts and they have
Speaker 2: to come to terms of what.
Speaker 4: The reality of that all is. So we're as.
Speaker 2: Human beings, We're always going to have our personal you know,
Speaker 2: preference in our biases and who we love and who
Speaker 2: we don't like, and we're gonna demonize some and we're
Speaker 2: gonna make other ones angels.
Speaker 4: That's just the reality of what it is.
Speaker 2: I just hope that we get comfortable we're using discernment
Speaker 2: looking at facts, you know, just being careful to just
Speaker 2: put things on individuals without seeing any facts, and then
Speaker 2: being able to look at the facts and come to
Speaker 2: a conclusion. Even in that conclusion. Understand that your conclusion
Speaker 2: might be wrong. The courts might get it wrong. We
Speaker 2: might demonize somebody and the course might come back with
Speaker 2: evidence to say, oh, we were wrong about this. It's
Speaker 2: people that's been convicted of murdering people and all types
Speaker 2: of hanging his crimes, and they come back with DNA
Speaker 2: and be like, oh, this person never did that.
Speaker 4: And so we're never gonna all get it right.
Speaker 2: But we just have to give people levels of grace.
Speaker 2: We have to give people levels to understanding. We got
Speaker 2: to understand our own biases, you know. We got to
Speaker 2: in turn and be very aware and understand that people
Speaker 2: don't see things the same way that you see it.
Speaker 2: There's gonna be somebody that person did it, and you're
Speaker 2: gonna be like, no, why did you get it? And
Speaker 2: based off their own, you know, interpretations and their own experiences,
Speaker 2: they're going to draw a conclusion because this girl might
Speaker 2: have said the same exact shit that happened to you,
Speaker 2: and you might be like, nah, know that that that's
Speaker 2: something I've seen And God might say the same shit
Speaker 2: that happened to me and I'm like, yall, remember girl
Speaker 2: that that that shit is crazy? Like they did so
Speaker 2: we all are using our own internal, you know, situations.
Speaker 3: To put there whatever.
Speaker 2: You exactly to put the reality of what's going on
Speaker 2: in front of us. And we have to understand that's
Speaker 2: what we're doing.
Speaker 1: But I also never want to get to a place
Speaker 1: in my life it's a real like I love this
Speaker 1: about me. The forty five means really thinking deep, deep, deep,
Speaker 1: deep deep, and challenging self and I live to tell
Speaker 1: the story. My memoir does a lot of that. I
Speaker 1: never want to get to a place where I'm not
Speaker 1: also standing ten toes down and supporting our brothers, knowing
Speaker 1: that the system does railroad us as a people and
Speaker 1: particularly black men. But at the same time I always
Speaker 1: want to be in a posture that no matter how
Speaker 1: much I know you, how no matter you know how
Speaker 1: much I may love you, no matter whether I admire
Speaker 1: you from a distance, think you cute, or whatever, that
Speaker 1: I can still listen to and that's not just for
Speaker 1: men women, Also that I can still listen to things
Speaker 1: and be able to say without hesitation that this is
Speaker 1: just wrong, and.
Speaker 2: You should be able to say that. I'm ended by
Speaker 2: saying this, right. I have friends, people that I love
Speaker 2: dearly do that that have hurt people, that have shot people,
Speaker 2: that have killed people, that all these things, and I
Speaker 2: love them to death. You know, they went did their time,
Speaker 2: they've been you know, they've been held accountable for it,
Speaker 2: and they came home and they changed their lives. Right,
Speaker 2: And that's what grace is. That's understanding the reality of life.
Speaker 2: And when we look at the situations, any of these situations,
Speaker 2: none of these people took anyone's life right, and we
Speaker 2: might hate what they did, but they're not irredeemable, right,
Speaker 2: And that's that's what right now, when we look at
Speaker 2: did these situations.
Speaker 3: They would never look at Cassie, she's disgusting.
Speaker 2: They've lived the life, they have things that they've done
Speaker 2: in their life. And when we look at even the
Speaker 2: last few years, did he did he look like he
Speaker 2: was doing self reflection? I don't know, because once again
Speaker 2: we don't know, so prior to what he was doing,
Speaker 2: he might have been, like he said, he was in
Speaker 2: a dark place. And and I want to give him
Speaker 2: the grace to say, damn, maybe you maybe you do
Speaker 2: recognize what you did wrong.
Speaker 4: Maybe you did.
Speaker 2: I don't know, but I understand that he's not irredeemable
Speaker 2: because I have friends and people that I love who
Speaker 2: have taken people's lives, and I love them and I
Speaker 2: would sacrifice my life.
Speaker 3: For them right now. I mean, he.
Speaker 2: Needs to be held accountable and when he does the work,
Speaker 2: and his accountability comes for what it is. But if
Speaker 2: somebody took somebody's life and they home free, did he
Speaker 2: shouldn't be have to do life?
Speaker 4: And well, I just don't. I just don't say that.
Speaker 1: I guess where you and I differ because taking people's
Speaker 1: lives can be looked at in a lot of ways.
Speaker 1: Just because a person is breathing doesn't mean they still
Speaker 1: have life. Sometimes the decisions that we make can take
Speaker 1: more from folks you know, can can can. I'm not
Speaker 1: saying that they can't overcome it. I'm just saying that
Speaker 1: there's certain things that you could do.
Speaker 3: And I'm not.
Speaker 1: Talking about, oh, you cheated or you lied or this.
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about that. I'm saying there's some actions,
Speaker 1: especially when you are physically abusive to another individual, that
Speaker 1: can destroy parts of them right physically and mentally. So
Speaker 1: I guess what I'm saying is I struggle with being
Speaker 1: able to get past physical violence against anybody, but particularly
Speaker 1: against women.
Speaker 3: That's a hard like that.
Speaker 1: You know, we all have we all have these different
Speaker 1: red lines, and when it comes it's like Gaza, there
Speaker 1: are people who are like, oh, well, I can't be
Speaker 1: more concerned about what's happening in Gaza when Brooklyn is
Speaker 1: an issue. Now, Brooklyn is damn an issue. Brooklyn, Bronx,
Speaker 1: you know, Saint Louis. There's so many places where our
Speaker 1: people are suffering and caged, inn and starving and being
Speaker 1: killed in many different ways. And if you really want
Speaker 1: to keep it a thousand, it's a genocide that happens
Speaker 1: against black people every single day in this nation. But
Speaker 1: I still have to look at the bombs bursting in
Speaker 1: the air and say that I feel or I have
Speaker 1: a sensitivity that that's a red line for me.
Speaker 2: And there's nothing wrong with that. But I'm just saying
Speaker 2: you have to understand that there are some people that
Speaker 2: is not any situation. You do understand that some people
Speaker 2: are going to say, Dann, that was messed up and
Speaker 2: this and that, but this person is.
Speaker 4: Not completely responsible for that.
Speaker 2: It's going people that have shot somebody or done something
Speaker 2: and somebody's gonna say I love that person and the
Speaker 2: work that that person is doing, and the way that
Speaker 2: person is growing, I feel like I want to embrace
Speaker 2: that person.
Speaker 4: I want to get that person another shot. And that's
Speaker 4: how life is. Your red line might be somebody's white line.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, well I don't want to be around nobody
Speaker 1: who they're white men, and.
Speaker 4: You shouldn't want to be around that is Trump. I
Speaker 4: don't want to be they love Trump, and this reality
Speaker 4: is it is cool and it's other people.
Speaker 2: Oh, come on, politicians separate to me, it does and
Speaker 2: that's just my reality.
Speaker 3: I agree. I agree. So there's that, there's life.
Speaker 1: But I think as long as we are honest about
Speaker 1: our feelings and where we stand in these things that
Speaker 1: you know, at least we can begin to move our
Speaker 1: communities further by dialogue that is painful and difficult. It's
Speaker 1: like sexual assault. Excuse me, it's like abuse in the household.
Speaker 1: You know, people don't really like to talk about it.
Speaker 1: But the only way to correct it is to root
Speaker 1: it out. You got to bring it up, like, hey,
Speaker 1: this is something that's going on. So I'm not telling
Speaker 1: people go tell your personal business. Put all your business street,
Speaker 1: because beyonest with you, these people on this internet, they
Speaker 1: don't care nothing about your life. They don't want to
Speaker 1: help you, they don't want to support you. They just
Speaker 1: want your gossips and then they can go take that
Speaker 1: and mix it with some other gossip and then that's it.
Speaker 1: They just have a great time gosspend about you, and
Speaker 1: you don't never know nothing about what's going on their
Speaker 1: personal life because they learned a long time ago not
Speaker 1: to tell you about their personal life because they don't
Speaker 1: want anybody to see that. So that's not what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying that we as influencers and people who
Speaker 1: have folks who listen to us, people really want to know,
Speaker 1: like what does it feel like to like experience all
Speaker 1: these things? And I think we have a responsibility to
Speaker 1: unpack it. So there's that. Now on to the TMI.
Speaker 1: I think people are doing too much on this, but
Speaker 1: some people might not feel that way. So New York
Speaker 1: City Housing Authority is opening applications for employment. That's the
Speaker 1: projects where I grew up. They are opening applications for
Speaker 1: employment to people who have no educational background. And I
Speaker 1: sat for hours and read the comments section. And when
Speaker 1: I tell you that the classism and social media between
Speaker 1: the upper blacks and the lower blacks is serious, Okay,
Speaker 1: because all these people people I know, because you know,
Speaker 1: you can see your own people when they make comments.
Speaker 1: That's you know, those comments stick out. Oh that's ridiculous.
Speaker 1: That's what's wrong with our society. That's what's wrong with
Speaker 1: the projects any way. And that and you don't gotta
Speaker 1: have no education, and this and that and the third
Speaker 1: and you.
Speaker 3: Could get an education for free.
Speaker 1: And we should never be given jobs to people with
Speaker 1: no education. And I think that's I personally think that, Like,
Speaker 1: I don't agree.
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 1: I think that's a little bit too much that just
Speaker 1: because a person doesn't have formal education that that means
Speaker 1: they are not capable of having a job.
Speaker 4: I don't think.
Speaker 2: I don't think get mezed and not cable. I think
Speaker 2: what it is is they want to understand that somebody
Speaker 2: has applied themselves to something, has acquired some certain levels
Speaker 2: of degrees to where it shows that they're disciplined to something.
Speaker 2: But I think it should be based on the merit
Speaker 2: of whatever the job that you want to do. Right,
Speaker 2: if if you can show me or I'll give you
Speaker 2: a trial and you can do the job, and you
Speaker 2: don't have an education or formal education. Then cool that
Speaker 2: some people who have integrated from down South and people
Speaker 2: who didn't have the education, didn't have the roads to
Speaker 2: be able to be educated, so they came here looking for.
Speaker 4: A different life.
Speaker 2: They've been working with their hands their whole life. They
Speaker 2: they know how to sweep, they know they know how
Speaker 2: to do to certain things.
Speaker 1: They know how to fix cars cars because they grew up.
Speaker 3: They grew up with father, uncle's aunt.
Speaker 4: And I think those people should get the opportunities to
Speaker 4: do it.
Speaker 1: I think, But I don't think they're saying they're going
Speaker 1: to give you a job if you don't have any skills.
Speaker 3: And that's the way it sound.
Speaker 2: Skills and education is two different things. I think skills
Speaker 2: it should be skills over education because obviously we live
Speaker 2: in an era, in a time where Donald Trump is
Speaker 2: the president.
Speaker 4: There's nothing off anybody can do anything. That's just the Bible.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but he doesn't do it well, but it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2: But these people voted and they love him. So if
Speaker 2: you try to tell me that Donald Trump could be
Speaker 2: the president, then somebody with no formal education could work
Speaker 2: for the housing.
Speaker 5: That's it.
Speaker 1: Well, there's that. I think housing. I think new York
Speaker 1: City Housing Authority. They got to do a lot of
Speaker 1: internal work though on because what will happen is that
Speaker 1: these people who are classified as no education or low
Speaker 1: education will be treated as such.
Speaker 4: As the thing is, the reason.
Speaker 2: Why they did that is because they've been hiring those people.
Speaker 2: Because when you was looking at housing and the people
Speaker 2: that was doing sweeping and mopping and all that, dumb
Speaker 2: people that have no education, they knew somebody and they
Speaker 2: was ready to do the job better than anybody else.
Speaker 2: A lot of people was not educated. They wasn't educated.
Speaker 3: Well, I get that.
Speaker 1: I'm saying that people who are classified in the group
Speaker 1: of no education or low education are easier. No, they're
Speaker 1: easier to be discriminated against and mistreated because you need
Speaker 1: your job and so I could talk to you any
Speaker 1: kind of way. I could, you know, treat you any
Speaker 1: kind of way. So I think that there has to
Speaker 1: be provisions where that's being monitored that they don't become
Speaker 1: the lower class slavemen or enslaved. So I do think that, However,
Speaker 1: I applaud if they do it properly. I applaud the
Speaker 1: New York City Housing Authority for given opportunities to people
Speaker 1: who are boxed out of so many places because they
Speaker 1: don't have a paper to prove themselves. I just supplored
Speaker 1: them for that, so you know, no, so do I
Speaker 1: understand what some people are concerned about.
Speaker 3: But I will also challenge.
Speaker 1: People to think that if this individual who's living in
Speaker 1: your buildings, by the way, you can't go to certain schools,
Speaker 1: you can't do this, I mean access to education. And
Speaker 1: it's not as easy as people think you say it is.
Speaker 1: But there's some folks out here and they don't even know,
Speaker 1: you know, if the application process is intimidating, or they've
Speaker 1: been you know, caught up in various situations, maybe coming
Speaker 1: out of prison.
Speaker 3: It's a lot of things.
Speaker 1: And the question is if they can't get work somewhere,
Speaker 1: then what you think they're gonna be doing?
Speaker 2: And that let's go to our would guess our lawyer,
Speaker 2: our lawyer, our lawyer, our brother. He gonna give us
Speaker 2: some insight today.
Speaker 3: That's right.
Speaker 1: So as usual, we have one of our friends, well,
Speaker 1: as you said last time, more of a brother than
Speaker 1: a friend to us.
Speaker 3: And you know that we need him. We need T
Speaker 3: and I.
Speaker 1: On our show, we often bring a lot of our
Speaker 1: friends and people who are doing incredible work in the
Speaker 1: community across the country. And this brother is no different. Uh,
Speaker 1: he is our attorney first of all. First of all,
Speaker 1: so I don't know because if you are the brother
Speaker 1: is there's still attorney client privilege.
Speaker 4: If you're married.
Speaker 1: Yeh okay, So we just got to know that we
Speaker 1: need to know the law anyway. And so Royce is
Speaker 1: our attorney first of all. He's family to us, but
Speaker 1: he has been with us through many, many circumstances and situations,
Speaker 1: including the work that we engage in out in the community,
Speaker 1: fighting for families like Ramalley Graham who was killed by
Speaker 1: police officers in the Bronx in his home and right
Speaker 1: in front of his grandmother, something we've never been able
Speaker 1: to get over as a community. And Royce has been
Speaker 1: involved in a bunch of other cases. But he's also
Speaker 1: does some corporate work, keeps us out of trouble, make
Speaker 1: sure our paperwork is in order. So when we say
Speaker 1: we know Attorney Royce Russell, we know Attorney Royce Russell.
Speaker 1: I think the most impressive side of your life is
Speaker 1: being an attorney to many people who we won't name
Speaker 1: them now, but being a criminal defense attorney in private
Speaker 1: practice today. However, you are a prosecutor on the state
Speaker 1: and federal level in New York, and so you have
Speaker 1: a lot of pieces of things you got your hand
Speaker 1: and a lot of different pots. Attorney Royce Russell, and
Speaker 1: we appreciate you for coming to the TMI show today,
Speaker 1: but more than that, we just appreciate you for being
Speaker 1: our friends.
Speaker 4: For having any shop too. You see you see that
Speaker 4: that boys shop.
Speaker 3: Yes, that's what he does.
Speaker 1: He's a fashion fashion attorney. But you know, I feel
Speaker 1: like you started a trend in the fashion thing.
Speaker 3: Think no, I know.
Speaker 1: Because I remember some of the other attorneys not really
Speaker 1: dressing as well as you do. Because you know, I
Speaker 1: grew up around the attorneys. I done been around many
Speaker 1: attorneys and preachers are two things that I to groups
Speaker 1: of people I know well. And you would started with
Speaker 1: the bow ties and the whole thing and making everything
Speaker 1: sharp and match really well. And then I started to
Speaker 1: see other cats getting into it as well.
Speaker 5: You know, it was a shocking to the federal system.
Speaker 5: The federal system is blue and gray and black.
Speaker 6: So now you come in with a ce a sucker
Speaker 6: suit that's red or green, or you got pink and green,
Speaker 6: and they're like what's going on, like what's happening?
Speaker 5: And they sometimes they have no choice but just.
Speaker 6: Compliment you because you're doing the work. Because you're doing
Speaker 6: the work, it doesn't it doesn't impede how you proceed.
Speaker 6: It just it's who you are.
Speaker 3: Do you suggest your clients show up pink?
Speaker 6: Oh no, we show up sharp because you're a reflection
Speaker 6: of me. Right, we have to set a stage. Right,
Speaker 6: it's about setting a narrative, because what the judge sees
Speaker 6: is what's on the paper. We're trying to set a
Speaker 6: visual narral and we want you to buy into that narrative.
Speaker 5: Now we're not selling you anything, but we want you
Speaker 5: to look at this narrative. He has respect, she has respect.
Speaker 6: We're here today, we're gonna deal with what we have
Speaker 6: to deal with. We're looking straight, We're not with our
Speaker 6: hands folded behind our back. We're not looking down.
Speaker 4: That's just the rules, you know, being on.
Speaker 2: Try to understand those things right when you when you
Speaker 2: have a lawyer that is understands those dynamics. I didn't
Speaker 2: have a lawyer. I didn't have a lawyer to understood
Speaker 2: those that even explain those things to me. So you
Speaker 2: in there and you you don't understand how the jury
Speaker 2: is looking at you. You don't understand how the judge
Speaker 2: is looking at you. And when you they think you
Speaker 2: lack respect or you you got your hands behind your back.
Speaker 2: Is a level of submission like you admitting that you
Speaker 2: have some level of all these things you don't know
Speaker 2: you know, and you're a young boy, and you scared
Speaker 2: for your life in the court room and you don't
Speaker 2: have a lawyer to give you these jewels. You understand
Speaker 2: how your perception actually is reality?
Speaker 4: Is your reality?
Speaker 5: Be talking about corporate court etiquette. We're on trial. I
Speaker 5: don't need for you to do a lot of writing
Speaker 5: and a lot of hitting me. What that reflective you?
Speaker 2: Reflects that you're scared and you feel like some sense
Speaker 2: then they said something that might reflect you or make
Speaker 2: you look right.
Speaker 5: That's important.
Speaker 6: So now if I'm sleeping and I see you feverously
Speaker 6: do something as a juror, now I'm paying attention to
Speaker 6: what's going on here.
Speaker 5: I might have been daydreaming.
Speaker 3: They didn't even hear it.
Speaker 5: But people are people. They come in with problems, they come.
Speaker 3: In with things, not wanting to be there anyway.
Speaker 6: They come in right and the only thing you have
Speaker 6: to do is alert their attention to where their focus
Speaker 6: should be. And as soon as you hit me to
Speaker 6: the left or write the note and give it to me,
Speaker 6: and then I got to say stop doing it. And
Speaker 6: then you see this conversation going on. Well, I'm like,
Speaker 6: don't do that, and that person is talking. Now I'm
Speaker 6: missing that. I'm talking to you.
Speaker 5: The perception is something that's important here and.
Speaker 6: You don't like it, meaning the defendant doesn't like it?
Speaker 6: Or why are you giving mister Russell a hard time defendant?
Speaker 6: You see how sharp is he?
Speaker 4: Nice?
Speaker 5: He said hello in the morning, he picked it. I
Speaker 5: remember it.
Speaker 3: Like we like him, but not to show up, you know.
Speaker 5: What I'm saying. We like him and I like to
Speaker 5: be liked, so you like me.
Speaker 6: Because sometimes it's the facts, or is the person that's
Speaker 6: relaying the facts, And sometimes the person that's relaying the
Speaker 6: facts can overcome, can will a victory doesn't happen a
Speaker 6: lot in federal court, but it could happen when you
Speaker 6: will a victory. I like what he's saying. I like
Speaker 6: what he's doing. I see how he manipulated the facts.
Speaker 5: He seemed like a good dude.
Speaker 6: His client is sitting there calm, cool and collective.
Speaker 5: You be surprised.
Speaker 6: We hear all these stories about correction officers and those
Speaker 6: in law enforcement, how they mingle with the inmates. You
Speaker 6: be surprised with you is how they may for fanhasize
Speaker 6: over the fact that, look, that guy doesn't look that bad.
Speaker 6: You know, that guy looks like he's he's a good,
Speaker 6: good dude, or she's a good person. And they hear
Speaker 6: the facts because I think real, deep down, real, real
Speaker 6: deep down, people want to do good. They may not
Speaker 6: always do good, but they want to do good and
Speaker 6: they don't want to go home with I'm the.
Speaker 5: Cause of doing A or B. And so if you
Speaker 5: can present a package.
Speaker 6: That is formidable, that is respectful, then that meets them
Speaker 6: a little bit of the way.
Speaker 5: Don't get any false hope hopes.
Speaker 6: It meets them a little bit of the way, not
Speaker 6: all the way, because the facts are the facts.
Speaker 2: So we brought you here, Royce, because you know there's
Speaker 2: this big case with with Diddy, you know, right, and
Speaker 2: so we've read testimony from Dawn, We've read testimony from Cassie,
Speaker 2: and a lot of people are confused right when you
Speaker 2: look at what he's being charged with. Rico sex trafficking,
Speaker 2: and a lot of people like, how is this sex trafficking?
Speaker 2: How is this a rico?
Speaker 4: How can you have a rico case when it's only
Speaker 4: one defender? How is it?
Speaker 2: Like I've never heard of rico where there aren't other
Speaker 2: people involved in sex trafficking. It looks like I don't
Speaker 2: even understand how this is even sex trafficking if they're
Speaker 2: in a relationship, and we don't know the answers, right,
Speaker 2: So what we decided is that we were going to
Speaker 2: call our lawyer, our good friend who understands the law
Speaker 2: and can give us a breakdown, to not say whether
Speaker 2: it's guilty or innocent, but just give where the premise
Speaker 2: of these charges come from and how they actually make
Speaker 2: some level of sense.
Speaker 6: All right, So before we can even get into, you know,
Speaker 6: juries and trying the actual case, we all know that
Speaker 6: there is an indictment, and in the indictment, that's what
Speaker 6: was presented to the grand jury. So before we can
Speaker 6: even discuss the trial, it has to be an indictment.
Speaker 6: And we're talking about the federal government, they have nothing
Speaker 6: but time. So when we talk about sex trafficking, we're
Speaker 6: talking about racketeering. We're talking about those elements. They have
Speaker 6: to present a case to the grand jury, and it's
Speaker 6: not presented. And this is where I think, you know,
Speaker 6: talking to people presently, they think the case is going
Speaker 6: to is the beginning and the end with this one witness,
Speaker 6: like the first witness, is the beginning and the end
Speaker 6: of the case. And everything is a narrative and everything
Speaker 6: is storytelling. That's what this is is. Just think of
Speaker 6: it as storytelling. Right, if I'm a prosecutor and what
Speaker 6: and when I was a prosecutor state and federal, I
Speaker 6: wouldn't put my best witness on first because I know
Speaker 6: I have thirteen more to go.
Speaker 3: So you're telling me that the star witness.
Speaker 5: Who determines that the yeah, yeah, right, right right.
Speaker 3: So did we ever hear the prosecution cigar witness and.
Speaker 6: Did we read the indictment to see that the indictment
Speaker 6: talks about traveling and having escorts traveling from different states.
Speaker 6: We haven't heard any testimony about that. I think, as
Speaker 6: they say, back home soon come right.
Speaker 4: We have.
Speaker 6: Talk in the indictment about paying money extortion. We haven't
Speaker 6: really heard. We heard a little bit, but not a
Speaker 6: lot of that.
Speaker 5: So when you look at this witness, what is this
Speaker 5: witness saying is this witness? Why is she part of
Speaker 5: the story.
Speaker 6: I'm going to assume as a prosecutor, once was lays
Speaker 6: the foundation, gives the jury something to have an understanding
Speaker 6: of what's going on here, because quite frankly, unless I
Speaker 6: misread my playbook as a prosecutor, if that's your best
Speaker 6: witness and you put them on first, by the time
Speaker 6: you get to your fourteenth witness, I've forgot about your
Speaker 6: first witness.
Speaker 4: This is true.
Speaker 6: So now I got to go through redback four or
Speaker 6: five days of reading back, reading back testimony, and so
Speaker 6: no prosecutor want that. So what we want to do,
Speaker 6: we want to build, want to be able to come back.
Speaker 6: And you heard Cassie say this, and you heard Don't
Speaker 6: say that, and you heard and now you're starting to
Speaker 6: build because now you're going to have some people.
Speaker 5: I would imagine, and my imagination is.
Speaker 6: Fairly good, that you're going to have some people that
Speaker 6: are not women, that are men that were part of
Speaker 6: They call it an enterprise, right, and everybody ooh, enterprise.
Speaker 5: No, that's just the name.
Speaker 6: Of what you call it, right, whether it's combs or
Speaker 6: whether it's bad boy.
Speaker 5: You know that either worked or was.
Speaker 6: Employed or were consultants or something of that nature that
Speaker 6: did certain things. It's almost like a puzzle. I don't
Speaker 6: know if the prosecutor is working in out or out in.
Speaker 6: I believe they're set in the framework and then they're
Speaker 6: going to start putting pieces in the middle, and then
Speaker 6: it's going to turn into a puzzle. And so that's
Speaker 6: what we have to look forward to. And so just
Speaker 6: giving you an understanding of definition of racketeering because they're go, oh,
Speaker 6: they think it's like gambling or you know, maybe we
Speaker 6: kick down the door and we waved the four forward.
Speaker 5: Oh no, it's just.
Speaker 6: Two or more acts within a ten year span that
Speaker 6: are on the list of a variety of acts drug trafficking,
Speaker 6: sex trafficking, robbery, murder, extortion, fraud. You commit those and
Speaker 6: it's two or more and that's how you get the
Speaker 6: conspiracy and you got a trapdoor.
Speaker 3: But the person doesn't have to be on trial with you.
Speaker 5: Well, they do, and they don't.
Speaker 6: Sometimes what happens is the government we call it sliding
Speaker 6: in the first base. Sometimes people decide to slide in
Speaker 6: first base before the game even start. They know something
Speaker 6: is going to happen, they know that they're involved, and
Speaker 6: either you go to the FEDS before or when the
Speaker 6: FEDS start interviewing people, because they've interviewed.
Speaker 5: A lot of people, you decide that.
Speaker 6: I was employed to do this. I didn't know it
Speaker 6: was it would lead to do that, or maybe I
Speaker 6: knew about this, but I didn't know about that. And
Speaker 6: so I am going to before I am a co
Speaker 6: conspirator named in an indictment, I'm going to become a witness.
Speaker 2: So that's basically what's happening is the people that the
Speaker 2: co conspirat like Actually, because when I'm when I'm listening
Speaker 2: to this, this is my personal opinion, this is not
Speaker 2: right or wrong. Cassie is a co conspirator if you
Speaker 2: asked me, because when if you're talking about sex trafficking
Speaker 2: and you talking about all these escapades they had, and
Speaker 2: you're talking about her getting these you know, these escorts
Speaker 2: and all that she co conspirator was she there was
Speaker 2: a lot of times where she initiated it. So if
Speaker 2: I'm just is my mind as a novice lawyer, but
Speaker 2: I studied a little lawyer. I was in the lower
Speaker 2: Library for seven years. You're studying a little law just
Speaker 2: understanding what co conspirator is these people are co conspirators.
Speaker 2: I'm listening, listening to they said James cru Is supposed
Speaker 2: to come. James Cruise was like is personal system. He
Speaker 2: actually managed a lot of stuff. So more than likely
Speaker 2: he was a co conspirator too, and for exchange for
Speaker 2: his freedom right, he's saying, listen, I'm not I'm gonna
Speaker 2: go and say whatever y'all need me to say. Well,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say what I know. I'm
Speaker 2: gonna give my testimony and just in exchange to make
Speaker 2: sure that I'm not because, like you said, maybe he's saying, oh,
Speaker 2: I was cool with this, but I wasn't cool with that. Well,
Speaker 2: I knew about this and I didn't know that that
Speaker 2: was happening, and I wasn't okay with that. So a
Speaker 2: lot of these people, because that's what a lot of
Speaker 2: people are saying, how do you have a Rico in
Speaker 2: Arico indictment without any code defenders? And somebody told me
Speaker 2: And I'm not saying it's true, they're saying that the
Speaker 2: only two cases that they know to have been like
Speaker 2: this is him and R. Kelly where there's been a
Speaker 2: Rico indictment where no one else has any code defenders.
Speaker 5: Wow, look, there is no rule that you have to
Speaker 5: have colder all right?
Speaker 6: Is there implicit bias and some sort of tilting of
Speaker 6: the scales? There could be they most likely is I
Speaker 6: don't think in any genre of the American tale, something
Speaker 6: wasn't like with a little squint eye. Right, But you
Speaker 6: know that coming in, You know that after the baby,
Speaker 6: after doctor slapped you in the butt, you gotta.
Speaker 5: Know that, like I'm black, this is this is what's happening.
Speaker 6: So what might be the exception is not an exception
Speaker 6: for you, it's part of the rule. It might be
Speaker 6: an exception to someone else. Now, what I will also
Speaker 6: say to you is that when you have someone that
Speaker 6: quote unquote you want to label as a co conspirator,
Speaker 6: but yet you find so many acts that kind of
Speaker 6: doves into them being a victim, you got to decide rights.
Speaker 5: And the project has to decide.
Speaker 6: You know, I got a guy who's seven feet toll,
Speaker 6: who gotta handle like Kyrie Irvan, can shoot driven whatever.
Speaker 5: Am I gonna play him as a centaurs. I'm gonna
Speaker 5: let him do his thing.
Speaker 6: And so I'll make the analogy for Cassie right, I
Speaker 6: have someone who, yeah, may have been involved, and there's
Speaker 6: a theory to say that maybe.
Speaker 5: She should be at the table. But if I have
Speaker 5: more data points.
Speaker 6: That says she's more of a victim than anything else,
Speaker 6: I'm gonna use that and go that way. And the
Speaker 6: same thing with the security guard or security in and
Speaker 6: because remember, for those who don't know, racketeering also includes extortion.
Speaker 5: So if you're.
Speaker 6: Employed and your employer are saying you have to do
Speaker 6: this else you'll get fired, right or you never work
Speaker 6: in this industry?
Speaker 5: Again, Well, isn't that like extortion. I'm not saying it.
Speaker 5: I'm not saying he did it or.
Speaker 3: Right, I'm just saying that that's the theory, that's right.
Speaker 1: I think that I think that you know our intention
Speaker 1: is because it's eight weeks, so we're only in week
Speaker 1: two and it's at the beginning of wet stop.
Speaker 6: Can I stop you right there? Say that one more time? Yeah,
Speaker 6: what we have?
Speaker 3: We one in a day, We one in one day, so.
Speaker 5: We got eight weeks of testimony that's coming down.
Speaker 3: We don't know.
Speaker 5: Do you think they won or lost this case with
Speaker 5: one person?
Speaker 4: That's it?
Speaker 5: They don't.
Speaker 1: I don't think that at all and I've been saying that,
Speaker 1: but I'm just saying that because we haven't watched it
Speaker 1: all play out, and we do know how the justice
Speaker 1: system is complicit in the violence towards black men and
Speaker 1: black people. Therefore, we all are going to pay very
Speaker 1: close attention because people want to point out six white
Speaker 1: women as the prosecutors on this case and different points.
Speaker 1: So I'm just putting that out there so people are
Speaker 1: not like, oh, they just putting them in jail. We're
Speaker 1: not saying that because when people say, well, they have
Speaker 1: an eighty something percent chance of winning, that means there's
Speaker 1: a twelve percent, thirteen percent, almost twenty percent chance of
Speaker 1: not winning. So you don't know until you get towards
Speaker 1: the end, and I guess probably a week six, week seven,
Speaker 1: you as a lawyer and a former prosecutor, will probably
Speaker 1: have a better sense of like where the cake is
Speaker 1: being baked and how it's coming out, even though you
Speaker 1: may have some ideas today, but we're not going to
Speaker 1: give that because our people ain't ready for that yet.
Speaker 3: In the process.
Speaker 6: Look, just like a doctor, you come in and you sniffling,
Speaker 6: and you don't have a fever. He's already or she's
Speaker 6: already doing the diagnosis. Already, they don't even take nothing.
Speaker 5: You sneezing, you don't have a fever. Certain things are
Speaker 5: being eliminated.
Speaker 6: So now that the list get what else you don't eat,
Speaker 6: you don't keep fluids down, the list gets smaller. So
Speaker 6: as an attorney, respectfully, once I read the indictment and
Speaker 6: I start seeing what's the a's and the bees, and
Speaker 6: I don't know about anybody else, I think the reason
Speaker 6: why I'm good and the reason why I like it.
Speaker 6: I think the reason why people that I represent, whether
Speaker 6: they go do time at the end of the day
Speaker 6: or whether they go home free, is that we're gonna
Speaker 6: walk this war. And you better tell me something because
Speaker 6: I cannot walk in the room where somebody knows more
Speaker 6: than I, because I don't know if you've blown smoke
Speaker 6: up my nose.
Speaker 5: I don't know. I need to know. Now, some people, Oh,
Speaker 5: you represent, You want to find out he's guilty innocent?
Speaker 1: No, But this is how sometimes doctors misdiagnose people right
Speaker 1: because they haven't done the proper testing correct. They're making
Speaker 1: a decision based upon the theories of whatever's top of mind.
Speaker 1: You look like, next thing you know I got cancer,
Speaker 1: but you said it was COVID or some other thing
Speaker 1: and didn't give me the proper full analysis to make
Speaker 1: sure of what I actually have. And now I'm in
Speaker 1: stage three and we didn't know because you didn't do
Speaker 1: that work right.
Speaker 6: And part of the part of the analogy and the
Speaker 6: equation that I really want to focus on in that
Speaker 6: is this is that I'm only as good as you
Speaker 6: gonna let me be m hm. So if I'm asking you,
Speaker 6: are you sniffling? Do you feel this way? You're like, no, Well,
Speaker 6: now you're sending me on path where I can ultimately
Speaker 6: misdiagnose you. So there has to be some give and
Speaker 6: take in this process of what I'm reading and what's
Speaker 6: going to go on.
Speaker 1: But but but black people, black people, I think we're
Speaker 1: kind of going off somewhere else.
Speaker 3: But whatever, But black people have historically been.
Speaker 1: Misdiagnosed just because the doctor doesn't even care what yourself.
Speaker 6: Well, And this is this is the great thing, And
Speaker 6: that's why I like doing what I do. That's why
Speaker 6: I'm glad to see at least one brother on his team,
Speaker 6: because there has to be conversations, there have to be relatability.
Speaker 5: There has to be what's smoke, what's not. There has
Speaker 5: to be trust, there has to be all.
Speaker 6: These things that go on in order for quote unquote
Speaker 6: there to be a fair trial, right, and that's what
Speaker 6: we that's what we're looking for.
Speaker 4: So you think he's going to get a fair trial.
Speaker 5: I would say yes, he's going to get a fair trial.
Speaker 6: And I would say no, he will not get a
Speaker 6: fair trial because one I have to say yes and
Speaker 6: no because I know some of the attorneys that's on
Speaker 6: the staff. They are really good at what they do,
Speaker 6: and so they're going to stop certain things from happening.
Speaker 5: But the judge is the ultimate ruler. The judge can
Speaker 5: say no overrule. You have to take it up on appeal.
Speaker 5: The case is over.
Speaker 6: An appeal is after you've already been convicted, right, so
Speaker 6: you might be vindicated, but you served four or five years.
Speaker 6: So there's judgment calls that are going to happen that
Speaker 6: legal minds are going to disagree with. You know, what
Speaker 6: is enough narrative? You know how much is overkilled? Can
Speaker 6: you go in this area or not that area? We
Speaker 6: want to move on.
Speaker 5: With the rest of the case. How do we want
Speaker 5: to proceed?
Speaker 6: But then there's going to be parted that some stuff
Speaker 6: is just going to be stubborn. It's just going to
Speaker 6: be stubborn evidence. Videos that you saw are stubborn evidence.
Speaker 6: You can say what you want. That video is saying
Speaker 6: more than what you could even say verbally, and how
Speaker 6: can you?
Speaker 2: But I think for me, what most people are saying
Speaker 2: is you can't discount the video.
Speaker 5: Any video, not one particular. I don't know what else,
Speaker 5: what else.
Speaker 2: I'm just saying, based on the video that we've seen, Okay, right,
Speaker 2: we see domestic violence, right right, And that's what most people.
Speaker 2: Most people are one hundred percent clear that or not clear.
Speaker 2: Most people will will pretty much say that based on
Speaker 2: what they've seen and based off even testimony, just based
Speaker 2: off a lot of you know, what we've seen over
Speaker 2: the last couple of weeks. So there is a strong
Speaker 2: possibility that he was abusive to Castle.
Speaker 3: Not strong possibility, I.
Speaker 2: Mean on a regular basis. We know this one situation happened.
Speaker 2: But people will say there's a strong because we didn't
Speaker 2: see the other stuff. Right, we just make an assessment
Speaker 2: based on that situation, based on her testimony and based
Speaker 2: on other testimony and just what we've seen it is
Speaker 2: a strong possibility. People say this like it's more than
Speaker 2: likely that he's put his hands on more than one
Speaker 2: time off camera off camera.
Speaker 1: Right, it was off camera that day, right, but for
Speaker 1: but for But I'm just trying to take the point
Speaker 1: that that was off camera. Nobody was standing there with
Speaker 1: the thing filming them, So I'm just saying that we
Speaker 1: visually didn't see.
Speaker 2: So what I'm saying is and people, most people are
Speaker 2: one hundred percent clear, and they believe that there should
Speaker 2: be some repercussions for what he did, whatever the minimum.
Speaker 2: But I think with people are having a hard time
Speaker 2: wrapping their heads around most people more often most people,
Speaker 2: some people, because I won't say most, there are people
Speaker 2: that have a very hard.
Speaker 4: Time with sex trafficking in the recach.
Speaker 2: They just do they when you look at when you
Speaker 2: when you see that, let me.
Speaker 6: Just say what they're having a hard time because they
Speaker 6: haven't seen anything yet.
Speaker 2: Okay, you're having a hard time.
Speaker 6: People may be having a hard time with something that
Speaker 6: they haven't They want, they want they want to dessert.
Speaker 5: You gotta have dinner. They got to take human bites rights.
Speaker 5: As the bits start to come pro or con then
Speaker 5: you can start to say I don't think they proved this.
Speaker 1: That, and you can't say it hasn't been proven yet
Speaker 1: because they haven't even played out there.
Speaker 5: They haven't even they haven't done. They laid the found
Speaker 5: I'm gonna assume I'm they just laid the foundation. Royce Russell, prosecutor,
Speaker 5: will not put his best witness on. We'll put a
Speaker 5: witness on that lays the foundation. Not a witness that
Speaker 5: people will fall asleep, but people are interested, and that
Speaker 5: lays the foundation. If you think that the case is
Speaker 5: over in this one witness, then you're right. You have
Speaker 5: all those conclusions. They didn't do this.
Speaker 6: They didn't say anything about sex trafficking. No, she's one
Speaker 6: witness that said one thing right. And that's the way
Speaker 6: the Feds like to work. They like to work in
Speaker 6: very didactical, piece by piece. They'll have you come in
Speaker 6: twenty times and to ask you that same question over,
Speaker 6: not just to see whether or not you're telling the truth.
Speaker 6: It's because they went and asked somebody else some other
Speaker 6: questions and that person said.
Speaker 5: AB and C. So they're coming back to you.
Speaker 6: All right, we're gonna talk about A B A B
Speaker 6: A B A B and then you might slip in
Speaker 6: a C and then.
Speaker 5: Now they got two c's.
Speaker 6: All right, So now that person was telling the truth,
Speaker 6: and now I got you telling you. Now I can
Speaker 6: build on that. It's a puzzle for them. It is
Speaker 6: not straight rush the prosecution. Now, as you were giving
Speaker 6: out numbers eighty eighty percent, ninety five percent, you know
Speaker 6: the numbers are very high.
Speaker 5: You know, I practice in federal court, and.
Speaker 3: You won mostly games.
Speaker 5: Folks do take no.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 5: I could sit here and tell you no, not in
Speaker 5: federal court, no state state.
Speaker 4: Those are totally two.
Speaker 3: Which one as a prosecutor.
Speaker 5: Oh, as a prosecutor, I was fantabulous.
Speaker 6: I mean, you know, as a prosecutor federal court.
Speaker 5: Because here's the storyline with that.
Speaker 6: People are not used to seeing people of color operate
Speaker 6: the way I operate, right, and so there's a somewhat
Speaker 6: of a little bit of a bottom line that I
Speaker 6: want to believe you just on how you operated.
Speaker 5: And then you got the facts to corroborate. Look, I'm
Speaker 5: telling you the truth. You need to listen to me.
Speaker 6: And the way we worked in the federal government. We
Speaker 6: got sixteen seventeen people. All I got to do is
Speaker 6: just try this case anything that's appealable, anything that comes
Speaker 6: to I got all person sitting there writing a note. Sorry,
Speaker 6: we're gonna get that. When you're a defense counsel and
Speaker 6: you're there, you don't have the flock of thirty people.
Speaker 3: So why did you leave and do?
Speaker 1: And so if you were having such success as a prosecutor,
Speaker 1: why look we now I'm in your personal business.
Speaker 3: No I why did.
Speaker 1: You go and get in the hard work of being
Speaker 1: a criminal defense attorney?
Speaker 3: Because sometimes you be a stressed out Oh.
Speaker 6: No, not sometimes, And it's not necessarily what happens in
Speaker 6: the court. What's happening out of the court trying to
Speaker 6: talk to someone and say, look, you need to see
Speaker 6: it the way I'm seeing it because I saw what
Speaker 6: was behind curtain number one. I took a peak, and
Speaker 6: what you're saying to me is not relating to taking
Speaker 6: that peak.
Speaker 5: Now, we could do whatever you want, and I'm your
Speaker 5: main man.
Speaker 6: We can go one hundred grand, but there's going to
Speaker 6: come a time that that door is going to open,
Speaker 6: and it's a good possibility I may go left and
Speaker 6: you may have to go right.
Speaker 5: On the federal level, because that's just how tight it is.
Speaker 5: That's how they just have the people that you think
Speaker 5: you know.
Speaker 6: Numerous times on the state levels of Defense Council, my
Speaker 6: clients will say, oh, that person's not showing up, and
Speaker 6: they right. I've never been on a case, in a
Speaker 6: federal case where somebody said they're not showing up. Everybody
Speaker 6: shows up.
Speaker 1: Well, they said they lost a third witness for I'm
Speaker 1: just saying they couldn't front them so that.
Speaker 3: Happen.
Speaker 5: Things could happen, and it ain't over. They can't. You can't, right.
Speaker 5: I represented people where like, look, I'm getting.
Speaker 6: The call because they're gonna arrest you and you're gonna
Speaker 6: be in the pokey until you come around.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Now we're gonna take your name off the witness list
Speaker 6: for today, We're gonna bring you and you're gonna be.
Speaker 6: You're gonna be on the next Thursday. And then between
Speaker 6: that time they may be conversations and hearings where the
Speaker 6: judge will hold you in contempt and you go behind.
Speaker 3: Jesus you don't want to be in trouble.
Speaker 6: You go behind bars a little bit, and you better
Speaker 6: hope that they don't hit you with one thousand and one.
Speaker 6: I'm getting real technical, uh, you know, which is obstructing
Speaker 6: a federal investigation. Now you got to think about that.
Speaker 6: And you didn't sign up for that, No way that
Speaker 6: you sign up for that. You just went downstairs and
Speaker 6: got six coffees because the man told you to go
Speaker 6: downstairs to get six coffees. That's how why the conspiracy
Speaker 6: could be wow right. I've had a case where the
Speaker 6: woman was on the phone. She said, oh yeah, baby,
Speaker 6: I'll meet you at the spot. The spot turned out
Speaker 6: to be the drug spot.
Speaker 4: It wasn't.
Speaker 5: She didn't mean. She didn't mean the drug spot.
Speaker 6: She was talking about, I meet you at the club,
Speaker 6: I meet you later on. They heard spot. Next thing
Speaker 6: you know, she's wrapped in a conspiracy. I'm like, now
Speaker 6: you got to do the culturalization, you gotta do the understanding.
Speaker 2: And then she doesn't actually know about the drugs, because
Speaker 2: that's the key. They They probably already know you're not
Speaker 2: talking about the drug spot, but they know you know
Speaker 2: about the drug spot. So even if you wasn't talking
Speaker 2: about it in that conversation, they're gonna use you and say, listen,
Speaker 2: we think you was talking about the spot, and if not,
Speaker 2: we're gonna get you this and that, and you need
Speaker 2: to tell us something. Well, I wasn't talk all right, Well, listen,
Speaker 2: I do know about such and such, and he know
Speaker 2: about the spot and I've seen him go to and
Speaker 2: that's how they do compromise and compromise.
Speaker 1: So the rico does not need more than one defendant.
Speaker 6: No, it needs more than one. I mean, you don't
Speaker 6: have to charge, you don't have to put them on
Speaker 6: the indictment.
Speaker 1: You don't have to have to prove it that they
Speaker 1: So there's nobody no one else has to be sitting
Speaker 1: next to.
Speaker 3: So that's one.
Speaker 1: Now let's talk about sex trafficking, because that's very I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm even very not confused because I went and got
Speaker 1: myself very much so caught up to speed. But especially
Speaker 1: when you have children and you know, and we work
Speaker 1: with black folks all the time, and I'm hearing sex
Speaker 1: trafficking more and more now. I used to only see
Speaker 1: sex trafficking as the white van kidnapped or even and
Speaker 1: I think I did get the point of sort of
Speaker 1: coercion that turns into I'm unable to leave, right Like
Speaker 1: at first I was kind of just hanging out with
Speaker 1: you and then the next thing, you know, the door
Speaker 1: was locked or the thing happened. I'm drugged or whatever,
Speaker 1: and now I can't leave, and now you moved me
Speaker 1: somewhere or you took me over here. So I kind
Speaker 1: of get that content. But what I think again, where
Speaker 1: people struggle in this particular case, and I you know anyway,
Speaker 1: where people struggle in this particular case is the idea
Speaker 1: that somebody is a willing participant, even an escort who
Speaker 1: is a willing participant. They got the call, you know,
Speaker 1: you found them in the magazine or wherever, wherever on
Speaker 1: the street, in the strip club, whatever, and they say, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I'll go out with you, and then you
Speaker 1: pay them. They know that sex is an expectation. And
Speaker 1: then you say, but I want a matter of fact,
Speaker 1: we made it. Might have did it in Kentucky when
Speaker 1: I met you that day. But now you're so good
Speaker 1: at what you do, I'm gonna fly you to Miami,
Speaker 1: or I'm gonna bring you over here, or I want
Speaker 1: you to meet me on in Jersey from New York.
Speaker 1: That's where it gets to be rvery And I think
Speaker 1: it's important perfer. You know, that's one thing. Let's put
Speaker 1: that over here. I'm just saying that there's some young
Speaker 1: cats that flew the girl out all the time, flying
Speaker 1: this one over here they meet. It's particularly strippers, which
Speaker 1: I was reading something the other day and I said, whoa, whoa.
Speaker 1: The stripper thing is really serious because you met them
Speaker 1: in an environment and they're not your girlfriend that you
Speaker 1: flew out like this is somebody that you now are
Speaker 1: giving money to to see them again. And then sex happens,
Speaker 1: and a lot of these young guys I see them
Speaker 1: on social media like what sex trafficking? So I just
Speaker 1: wanted to you for you to talk a little bit
Speaker 1: about that.
Speaker 6: Well, I mean it is very very nuanced, right, because
Speaker 6: there's the definition could be played with in how you
Speaker 6: view it. Right, I would say that there's a lot
Speaker 6: of things that we do that are criminal, but you
Speaker 6: never get charged for every time you jaywalk, that's a crime.
Speaker 5: No way ever gets a ticket for it. That doesn't
Speaker 5: mean it wasn't a crime.
Speaker 4: Right, Spitting on the street is the crime.
Speaker 5: Now you're looking. So you're in a strip club, you're
Speaker 5: giving money, you're doing that, and people say, well, how
Speaker 5: is that any different? How is that any different?
Speaker 6: Well, when the federal government gets involved and you flying
Speaker 6: people and you driving people, this is what see, that's
Speaker 6: the nuance, right The federal government said, y'all, caul do
Speaker 6: what you want in the state. But if we want
Speaker 6: to do something, we're just going to look at how
Speaker 6: you travel because we got the underlying act. How do
Speaker 6: we get in our jurisdiction. Oh you jumped on eighty seven.
Speaker 6: Oh you took ninety five. Oh you went from Newark,
Speaker 6: you flew all that is us And if they want you,
Speaker 6: then that's where they commit. Now, what I will tell
Speaker 6: you is is that what I hear all the time
Speaker 6: from family, friends and folds is that old consentual, consentual, consentual.
Speaker 6: All this stuff is concentral, consentual central. And I harken
Speaker 6: them back to read the Miseducation of Negro. If I
Speaker 6: control your thinking, I don't have to worry about your actions,
Speaker 6: and that's and you if you just take that right
Speaker 6: there and think about this case. If I control your thinking,
Speaker 6: I ain't gotta worry about your actions, So that means
Speaker 6: back in slavery. If I control your thinking, I ain't
Speaker 6: gonta worry about you running out the back door to
Speaker 6: try to leave run away.
Speaker 5: For I'm not.
Speaker 4: Saying what I'm saying.
Speaker 5: What we say. What we're saying.
Speaker 6: We're saying is that if I control your thinking, I
Speaker 6: ain't gonta worry about your actions.
Speaker 5: So why didn't she leave? Did I control her thinking?
Speaker 5: I ain't gotta worry about leaving?
Speaker 6: Why didn't he tell? Did I control this thinking? I
Speaker 6: ain't gonna worry about him telling?
Speaker 3: Now?
Speaker 5: How do you control ones? Thinking? Low self esteem? Give
Speaker 5: you some money? However you do it, you do it.
Speaker 1: But people think if while I'm buying you gifts, Right,
Speaker 1: if a person is buying you gifts, then that means
Speaker 1: that you want the lifestyle, you want, the things you want,
Speaker 1: whatever the job that I can offer you. Right, you
Speaker 1: are yourself in a situation where you know that I'm
Speaker 1: X amount of problematic things. But because you're trying to
Speaker 1: get to a means, then the ends justify it. And
Speaker 1: I'm not saying I agree with that at all.
Speaker 4: But this and it's a dynamic. Right.
Speaker 2: It's like women say, I want to deal with a
Speaker 2: powerful man. I like power. I'm intrigued by power a
Speaker 2: man can lead. I want to live the soft life.
Speaker 2: Want a man that can control that could tell me, hey,
Speaker 2: you shut up and you listen to me, and you
Speaker 2: aspire to get a.
Speaker 4: Man like that.
Speaker 2: Right, So there are men out here that I've had
Speaker 2: conversations with men that said, we are actually punishing a
Speaker 2: man because he got good gain now and he's powerful,
Speaker 2: and we're saying that a woman who succeeds to that power, right,
Speaker 2: becomes susceptible to that power and allows you to utilize
Speaker 2: that power and gains from that power, takes the money,
Speaker 2: enjoys all of the accolades that come with that power.
Speaker 2: The minute that she no longer wants to succeeds become
Speaker 2: susceptible to that, it becomes a crown.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 6: See, nobody's nobody's going to accept that as anywhere near
Speaker 6: what they would teach their loved ones, because you have
Speaker 6: societal norms and societal norms. Even though I like a
Speaker 6: man that's powerful, or I like a woman that's powerful,
Speaker 6: I don't want them choking me out.
Speaker 4: Oh no, we're not talking about the physical.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, because I don't want.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't want.
Speaker 5: Because that's that's the problem.
Speaker 6: You can't make a straight vegan cake without mixing something
Speaker 6: in it. You gotta like, you gotta the cake, gotta
Speaker 6: have some weight, have some substance.
Speaker 4: In it.
Speaker 5: It may not have any flower, but it's gonna have
Speaker 5: some assimilation of flower. It's gonna have something.
Speaker 6: So you can't talk about anything in isolation because it's
Speaker 6: all cole mingled. Nothing could be talked about in isolation.
Speaker 6: And I think for the most part, we may speak
Speaker 6: in isolation. We may speak in isolation like, oh, well,
Speaker 6: you know, she wanted them whoever she may be, or
Speaker 6: he wanted a powerful woman. All right, he did to
Speaker 6: what degree? That's where the nuances come in. They come
Speaker 6: in and what degree? What degree are we talking about?
Speaker 5: Is it this much or is it this much? And
Speaker 5: that's where societal norms come in. Is it this much
Speaker 5: or is it this much? And that's what the jury
Speaker 5: will decide.
Speaker 3: That will decide. I've been saying it's gonna be rough.
Speaker 2: It's rough on both ends because I don't think no man, woman,
Speaker 2: or anybody of good conscious look at him beating Cassie
Speaker 2: and says that that was okay. I just don't think
Speaker 2: there's nobody saying, nah, she deserved Everybody saying whatever he
Speaker 2: deserved for beating that woman.
Speaker 4: He needs to get it.
Speaker 2: But I also think that there are a lot of
Speaker 2: people that are saying, when you look at the dynamic up, they.
Speaker 4: Were in a toxic relationship.
Speaker 2: A lot of people saying this is a toxic relationship,
Speaker 2: and a lot of people have been in toxic relationships.
Speaker 2: And when you look at over a ten year span,
Speaker 2: you look at text message, look at communication they have,
Speaker 2: there was levels of love there, there was communication, There
Speaker 2: was dictated a lot of stuff. It was time that
Speaker 2: they actually showed where she was like, Oh, I want
Speaker 2: to do this freakom. He's like, Nah, you should just relax.
Speaker 2: You should go home. You got a movie deal, you
Speaker 2: got all these things.
Speaker 4: Relax. We don't got to do that. We need to
Speaker 4: come back.
Speaker 2: There were times where you can just see that there
Speaker 2: was love in this situation. And what this this trial
Speaker 2: is portraying is that there was this manipulative evil man
Speaker 2: that just controlled this woman and she had no right,
Speaker 2: she had no power over us. And I think that's
Speaker 2: the dynamic that a lot of people are struggling with.
Speaker 5: And naked look, they can struggle.
Speaker 6: I mean, I'm not going to say that they shouldn't,
Speaker 6: but what I'm saying is that you mentioned it is
Speaker 6: an eight week trial.
Speaker 5: We on day week and one day and that the case.
Speaker 6: She is not being tried for what he did to
Speaker 6: Cassie and or be all, that's not the that's not
Speaker 6: the case.
Speaker 5: That's not that would be a short case.
Speaker 6: We got eight weeks of other stuff that quite frankly,
Speaker 6: I hope our community pays attention to one way.
Speaker 3: Or that's what, because that's.
Speaker 5: That's not.
Speaker 3: Like I said, the real is to pay attention and I.
Speaker 6: Like, keep the main thing the main thing, look at
Speaker 6: the other thing, look at well, how many more receipts
Speaker 6: we're going to see of somebody flying somewhere in and out.
Speaker 5: After a while, you're gonna get tired of seeing receipts?
Speaker 5: How many times we're going to hear? And that's the guts.
Speaker 6: Whether they can prove or not proof, that's that's right,
Speaker 6: and not being frosting, that's the gut.
Speaker 3: You know, I've heard a lot of people.
Speaker 4: First of its.
Speaker 1: First of all, I want to name something that I
Speaker 1: think is important that it has come up in the
Speaker 1: Shannon Sharp situation as well. Right, power dynamics are very,
Speaker 1: very very important.
Speaker 5: You see it in corporate America all.
Speaker 1: Day every day, and that's why you can't sleep with
Speaker 1: and mix with people on your.
Speaker 3: Staff that are can't joke with.
Speaker 6: There's no you look good, you look nice today because
Speaker 6: I don't know how you perceive that about that boss
Speaker 6: and you're the subordinated.
Speaker 5: You got to just do the job.
Speaker 1: It is very important that people take away the main
Speaker 1: things from this trial, and like I said, the Shannon
Speaker 1: Sharp situation that you can't you have to be very
Speaker 1: careful when you have power and money about how you
Speaker 1: operate with people who have less than you.
Speaker 3: With all people, with all people, with.
Speaker 1: All people, but with people who have less than you,
Speaker 1: there's always going to be a view that you were
Speaker 1: in control because you had the ability to move and
Speaker 1: maneuver things that another person or that other person did
Speaker 1: not have the ability to do. So if I begin
Speaker 1: having a relationship with some you know, younger employee of
Speaker 1: mine or a younger you know, my trainer or something
Speaker 1: like that, knowing the position that I'm in in life,
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden he begins to be uncomfortable,
Speaker 1: I expose myself because I should never have been operating
Speaker 1: in that type of Uh. I want to say power
Speaker 1: dynamic in the first place, But.
Speaker 4: Do you think about Cassie is married to a trainer.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I'm not so when we when we have.
Speaker 2: In these cops, there's a there's a power dynamic in
Speaker 2: every situation, right, there's a power dynamic. And we and
Speaker 2: and and I'm not and I just want you to
Speaker 2: understand that we have in these conversations and there was
Speaker 2: a whole thing and I'm not bringing up any names,
Speaker 2: but there was a whole thing where they showed the
Speaker 2: dynamics of black men in powers dynamics and white men
Speaker 2: in power dynamics, and most of the white men in
Speaker 2: the same positions who have done way we know have
Speaker 2: done way. There's no direct attack to completely dismantle them.
Speaker 2: This is just a reality and this is a real
Speaker 2: thing that we talked about.
Speaker 4: We can go from.
Speaker 2: Bill Kysy, Michael Jackson shit where we can look at
Speaker 2: every powerful man and that was black. There was a
Speaker 2: complete attack by the media everything to completely crush their
Speaker 2: whole appearance. They are white men who have been charged
Speaker 2: with the same thing Robert Kraft and got caught doing
Speaker 2: some sexual shit that should disappeared within a week. They
Speaker 2: talked about it. One day, it completely disappeared. We never
Speaker 2: heard about Hugh Heffnagina, We never heard the people who
Speaker 2: actually did the power dynamics of this real shit where
Speaker 2: it started from that, we started a lot of not
Speaker 2: weed that black men started to mimic. These people would
Speaker 2: never their image and everything was never completely shattered.
Speaker 4: It never happened.
Speaker 2: So we not say we can say that there's a
Speaker 2: power that we gotta say the thing is the thing
Speaker 2: that black men in power have to be way more
Speaker 2: careful than every other man in power.
Speaker 1: And I'm and I'm saying that I want the system
Speaker 1: to be just and I want us to do just things.
Speaker 1: I'm saying that just because there is this issue where
Speaker 1: we know we as black people in general, not just
Speaker 1: black men, face discrimination and what is the word that
Speaker 1: the rules do not always apply or the rules always
Speaker 1: apply for us and don't always apply for other people.
Speaker 1: Just because all of that is true does not make
Speaker 1: me incapable of also seeing fault when fault is present
Speaker 1: in black men. So I have no there is In fact,
Speaker 1: I am very cautious about even saying that in the
Speaker 1: midst of a black man facing accountability for their actions,
Speaker 1: I'm very careful to not allow myself to say, well,
Speaker 1: what about the house that's burning down the street, Because
Speaker 1: this house is burning right here.
Speaker 3: Well, I'm not saying I am not saying you are.
Speaker 1: I'm saying I know what I've the conversations that I've
Speaker 1: been having with people, not just about Puff, because people
Speaker 1: know not to really talk to me about Puff, because,
Speaker 1: as I've already said, I understand that we all are
Speaker 1: walking contradictions. When you love people, it is harder, especially me,
Speaker 1: never seeing Puff do any of these things. Right, Like,
Speaker 1: I don't know him as this person. I know him
Speaker 1: as a person who was always kind, supportive of me, helpful,
Speaker 1: fun funny, but still very respectful of me. But I
Speaker 1: also know that I'm a very privileged individual that certain
Speaker 1: people are not going to do and say certain things
Speaker 1: to me, and so I have to listen to other
Speaker 1: people's experiences and see how it all plays out. Right,
Speaker 1: So what I'm saying is that people don't really talk
Speaker 1: to me about that because when they start, I'm like, look,
Speaker 1: I don't even want to talk about it.
Speaker 3: But there are other scenarios where I have had black men.
Speaker 1: Say to me, oh, well, such and such beat so
Speaker 1: and so the white man did it, or the so
Speaker 1: and so did it, And now all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: because I did it all because my brother or my
Speaker 1: cousin did it. Now this means that I you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's unfair. Well, first of all, we live in
Speaker 1: unfair reality. And if we know that, then we already
Speaker 1: know because we say things all the time.
Speaker 3: As a black person, I know better. I'm not doing this.
Speaker 1: I'm not going running through a community, you know, and
Speaker 1: you tell your kids, don't you go running through them
Speaker 1: people neighborhood at night, because you know what can happen.
Speaker 2: But basically, that's exactly what I was saying.
Speaker 4: We are black.
Speaker 2: So when you say as men, there's a power dynamic,
Speaker 2: it's not as men. It's not when we look at
Speaker 2: it in totality, it's not. The rules do not apply
Speaker 2: to all men the way that they apply to black men.
Speaker 2: And that's all I'm trying to say, and I'm not
Speaker 2: saying is when we talk about physical abuse and all that,
Speaker 2: I'm not even talking.
Speaker 4: I'm talking about the power dynamic.
Speaker 2: When we look at the power dynamic, black men are
Speaker 2: scrutinized way more in these power done them. We got
Speaker 2: Cromo's accus now he's running for the man tomorrow. We
Speaker 2: got all these things that disappear. It don't disappear for
Speaker 2: black men. T I went through, whatever you went through,
Speaker 2: they said this didn't happen. Nobody said sorry, nobody gives
Speaker 2: a fuck. So these are realities that black men deal
Speaker 2: with all the time. They diminish you, they take all
Speaker 2: the shit, you take all the charges, and even if
Speaker 2: you find guilty, you can't if you found not guilty,
Speaker 2: they never rebuild you. There's never no recourse, there's nothing back.
Speaker 2: Nobody's getting charged in it. None of that happens for
Speaker 2: black men. And that's just the reality that we have
Speaker 2: to deal with. So I acknowledge that we have to
Speaker 2: be way more cautious, but don't we can't make it
Speaker 2: seem like the playing fields evil for even for black
Speaker 2: men that it is for everybody else.
Speaker 6: But that's the story that we've been saying. I mean,
Speaker 6: we're born into that, right, we know that, right. And
Speaker 6: so I think where some folks get misled is that
Speaker 6: they buy into that it's.
Speaker 5: Not gonna happen to me.
Speaker 6: And once you once you, once you lift up the
Speaker 6: shade a little bit and you think it's not going
Speaker 6: to happened to you, that's when it happens to you.
Speaker 6: That's just that's just how it happens, period, and whether
Speaker 6: right or wrong, Shannon Sharp or not. Whoever, if you
Speaker 6: think that you are not on the eye of the tiger,
Speaker 6: you wrong.
Speaker 5: You should act as if you always.
Speaker 6: Someone's always looking at you and looking for you, period,
Speaker 6: men and women, period.
Speaker 5: That's it.
Speaker 6: If they got to find something and they going to contrite.
Speaker 6: Our community is more than happy to be behind you.
Speaker 6: When there's something that's contrite, you're just trying to find something.
Speaker 6: But when something has some meat on the bone, you
Speaker 6: got a problem.
Speaker 5: And that's irrespective of this case right here.
Speaker 1: So we talked about nuance today that these all these
Speaker 1: these things because you had said early in my son
Speaker 1: that reco charges are designed for you not to be
Speaker 1: able to beat them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, agree with that.
Speaker 5: I would agree, I would, I would, I would agree.
Speaker 6: So let me let me say I agree in the sentiment,
Speaker 6: I don't necessarily agree with the words.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 6: Rico speaks to conspiracy and two or more and a
Speaker 6: whole litany of crimes that you can commit and can
Speaker 6: you beat it if you act by yourself, But if
Speaker 6: there's other people that are around you that acting.
Speaker 5: Everybody has a.
Speaker 6: Soft soft spot you can get in this situation that
Speaker 6: has nothing to do with this case and decide that
Speaker 6: this is the best thing that's got me going. I
Speaker 6: mean that that's just the reality.
Speaker 2: That's just so we got we can look at we
Speaker 2: can look at situations like Brian Benjamin, like when they
Speaker 2: start coming with you, Rico, you don't have they don't
Speaker 2: most of the time, they don't have nothing to do
Speaker 2: with nothing.
Speaker 3: You don't.
Speaker 2: And they got one person like he said, got nothing
Speaker 2: to do with this case, but he's a rested for
Speaker 2: something else. And he said, well, you know, I might
Speaker 2: have done this or he might have said this to
Speaker 2: me and next thing you know, And it's but I'm
Speaker 2: just trying to tell you that we just judge a
Speaker 2: little different. This is my person. We definitely judge it.
Speaker 5: No I can walking in and as a prosecutor, yeah,
Speaker 5: we're definitely judged a whole lot different.
Speaker 6: But I can't accept that from you as a defendant,
Speaker 6: that you didn't understand that part about America, Like that's
Speaker 6: the part that's the part that we like, we're.
Speaker 5: Gonna we're gonna rock out, we're gonna scramble, but a
Speaker 5: lot of times you gotta understand.
Speaker 4: But that's what that's what.
Speaker 2: The power dynamic does right when you look at powerful
Speaker 2: man that's been powerful for thirty years and you're hanging
Speaker 2: around these white men and they're doing the same shit,
Speaker 2: and you forget.
Speaker 4: You start thinking we're on the same level they doing it.
Speaker 1: Oh, this is okay, good, And it just seems like
Speaker 1: you could do like you said, you commit crimes every day.
Speaker 1: Because I know that there are people who got caught
Speaker 1: up in these types of cases didn't even know at all.
Speaker 1: They really truly did not understand that they were involved
Speaker 1: with or helping to further because I kept reading that
Speaker 1: that's right, helping to further.
Speaker 5: So the wall You.
Speaker 6: Went and picked somebody up from the airport, Dang, well,
Speaker 6: you thought it was like he told me to pick
Speaker 6: up something or she.
Speaker 1: But if he mentions to you on the way out
Speaker 1: the car, I'm about to go smoke this thing or
Speaker 1: do this thing or whatever.
Speaker 3: Then does that And I still don't.
Speaker 1: Understand how if I picked you up and took to
Speaker 1: the airport or from there or whatever, the hell, how
Speaker 1: do I become a part of something where you did
Speaker 1: not explicitly say to me, I'm getting ready to go
Speaker 1: by these drugs.
Speaker 4: Hey, federal government has a burden of proof, Nigga present
Speaker 4: is the.
Speaker 5: Words called inference.
Speaker 6: How can you be involved with all this and not
Speaker 6: infer and know what's going on? Like you didn't know,
Speaker 6: like you picking up that wasn't a famous singer. You
Speaker 6: picked up from the from the airport, you know that, right?
Speaker 6: And you bring them idle conversation happens everybody when they
Speaker 6: get in the car. They know, you know, talk happens.
Speaker 6: Things happen. You'll go downstairs.
Speaker 3: Now, can you take me?
Speaker 1: Matter of fact, man, take me by this spot, my man,
Speaker 1: I know to whatever.
Speaker 3: Yo, that's a lot though. That's not not really fair.
Speaker 4: It's not it's not and it's not designed to be fair,
Speaker 4: that's what.
Speaker 5: It's not fair.
Speaker 1: But because I didn't when you when I went by
Speaker 1: to go get the crack, I mean I took you
Speaker 1: over there, I don't know what the hell. You're a
Speaker 1: grown ass person. You're going there to get the crack?
Speaker 1: What does this have to do with my life?
Speaker 5: And maybe maybe maybe that's maybe that's why you're not.
Speaker 3: Charged because I'm with the law.
Speaker 5: But maybe that's what I'm Maybe that's why you're not charged.
Speaker 6: But you're away because because you you know that I
Speaker 6: just did this. But if you get and this is
Speaker 6: what we started at the piece of the puzzle, I
Speaker 6: just did this.
Speaker 5: I just did this.
Speaker 6: I just did Now you start to build a framework
Speaker 6: and then you get a couple of more They just.
Speaker 5: Did this, They just did that. They just did that.
Speaker 5: That's what it's all about.
Speaker 1: So here's two things that have that also have have
Speaker 1: This case has highlighted people under NDAs because there was
Speaker 1: a woman who testified that she signed it an NDA
Speaker 1: that Cassie gave her after she was assaulted by Puff
Speaker 1: and he supposedly paid her. That's what she said, but
Speaker 1: she was under the NDA because she signed it. She
Speaker 1: said that, so people want to know how.
Speaker 3: Does she end up in court?
Speaker 1: And then the biggest thing is folks are saying, Cassie
Speaker 1: took a settlement from Puff, So how does she now
Speaker 1: become a witness in this case?
Speaker 6: Because you're talking about criminality, civil and criminal two different worlds,
Speaker 6: and the federal government and the US Attorney's Office they
Speaker 6: do not care about what's going on in the civil world.
Speaker 6: Matter of fact, when you look at separation.
Speaker 5: Agreements, when you leave your job right things are not
Speaker 5: working out, they give you a separation agreement.
Speaker 6: It will talk about. You can't talk about the settlement.
Speaker 6: You can't disclose.
Speaker 5: Why you laugh, you can't disparage, you.
Speaker 6: Can't do any of those things. But there's always that
Speaker 6: one paragraph. Uh oh, there's always that one paragraph that
Speaker 6: speaks to.
Speaker 5: I'm sorry, put the phone back.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, all right.
Speaker 6: Now where you want to start. No, it's always that
Speaker 6: one paragraph that speaks to that. If there's a federal investigation,
Speaker 6: if there's a state investigation, if there's an EEOC investigation.
Speaker 5: That's off.
Speaker 6: The only thing you will see in reference to that
Speaker 6: is that you got to let us know.
Speaker 5: The employee says, you got to.
Speaker 4: Let us know.
Speaker 6: We can't intercede, We can't talk to you first, but
Speaker 6: you gotta let us know. Same thing here you can
Speaker 6: have all Let's just say she breached the NDA, and
Speaker 6: everybody's up in arms, and she happens to breach the
Speaker 6: NDA that you drafted inside. Let's say you will quit it.
Speaker 6: Let's just say where you think you're gonna suit her
Speaker 6: for breaching the NDA? What court you think you're gonna
Speaker 6: go to?
Speaker 5: I say, you know, I say it very you know lightly.
Speaker 5: What court you're gonna go to?
Speaker 4: None? You can't.
Speaker 6: No wonder, no judge, no judge is gonna say, you
Speaker 6: know what, you're right, You're right. Fifty thousand dollars. You
Speaker 6: win because she breached the NDA, because the federal government
Speaker 6: came to her and said, we want to know about criminality.
Speaker 5: You have nowhere to go.
Speaker 3: So once again, don't do it, because just don't do
Speaker 3: the thing.
Speaker 5: Well, just don't do it. There we go.
Speaker 3: Just don't do the thing.
Speaker 4: Just don't do just don't do the thing.
Speaker 2: So what I was what I wanted to ask as
Speaker 2: the final question, is, so you know, I've there's been
Speaker 2: a lot of talk about this Meg and Tory Lanez
Speaker 2: quote unquote.
Speaker 4: Newly discovered evidence.
Speaker 2: So what they're saying is that a driver who was
Speaker 2: driving her to court, her who was driving Kelsey to court,
Speaker 2: who is Meg's friend, who was driving her to court
Speaker 2: back and forth for the two days that she went
Speaker 2: to trial, overheard her saying that quote I don't know
Speaker 2: exact words, that she's the one who shot Meg and
Speaker 2: that he blocked the gun on her hand. Is this
Speaker 2: newly discovered evidence or is it hearsay? Can it be
Speaker 2: presented as newly discovered evidence or is it just heresay?
Speaker 4: Evidence.
Speaker 6: Well, it's both, and it's always a hearsay exception. So
Speaker 6: things are allowed because you have a.
Speaker 5: Rule, and you have an exception.
Speaker 6: If someone is making a statement, a statement that is
Speaker 6: involving involving an investigation or involving prior testimony and you
Speaker 6: know it, then it's new evidence. The issue is how
Speaker 6: relevant is it, how relevant is it to the bigger piece,
Speaker 6: and whether or not and how it could be used.
Speaker 6: So that's really the question, because there's always exceptions to
Speaker 6: every rule. Is say, yeah, it's out of court statement,
Speaker 6: definitely is right, But what's the exception And was it
Speaker 6: against her own interest in making the statement, whether whether
Speaker 6: whether or not it was in furtherance some other interests
Speaker 6: that will determine whether.
Speaker 5: Or not can come in.
Speaker 1: So that and who makes that decision A judge, a judge.
Speaker 5: The prosecutity to say argue for or against it.
Speaker 6: Defense are either argue for or against it or judge
Speaker 6: and making decisions.
Speaker 1: And this was the same judge that was on the
Speaker 1: case that would make that decision, or a new judge
Speaker 1: could be.
Speaker 6: It all depends. It all depends. That is not a
Speaker 6: fast fast rule. It all depends because sometimes what happens
Speaker 6: in federal court. In most courts, you have judges that
Speaker 6: will deal with all the logistical motions and all the
Speaker 6: suppressions and all those hearings, and then you have the
Speaker 6: judge just tries the case.
Speaker 1: But now, in this particular situation, I think Kelsey did
Speaker 1: the the fifth or she.
Speaker 4: Was granted immunity.
Speaker 1: Actually right, she was granted immunity, so they can bring
Speaker 1: the new evidence against her, and then the courts can
Speaker 1: decide again because people need to know that all these things,
Speaker 1: the NDA, the immunity whether not violates.
Speaker 6: Any any any immunity clause, you know, and then they
Speaker 6: make that decision.
Speaker 1: And so they could yeah, because people believe if I
Speaker 1: say I I have immunity, or if I signed an
Speaker 1: n DA or whatever, then I'm out of it. And
Speaker 1: what we're hearing here is that that's not the case.
Speaker 6: So I think the best way to describe it is
Speaker 6: immunity is usually for criminal conduct, like, look, I'm immune
Speaker 6: from anything that goes on because you deem my information
Speaker 6: so valuable.
Speaker 5: NDA is for.
Speaker 6: The civil context, never should they meet, and if they meet,
Speaker 6: criminal is always going.
Speaker 5: To take over.
Speaker 1: So the criminal in this situation, even though she had
Speaker 1: immunity from a criminal act. Yes, it's still if new
Speaker 1: evidence means it's a new.
Speaker 5: New situation, because that means that.
Speaker 1: She right, But you don't get free the person who
Speaker 1: was convicted, do they get free?
Speaker 5: But it depends, it depends.
Speaker 6: It depends, depends on the relevance of it. Right, So
Speaker 6: it might be a small factor that wouldn't have changed
Speaker 6: the jurist perspective. So it's called this is what they
Speaker 6: call it. They call it harmless era. It was an error,
Speaker 6: but it was harmless. Now I would tell you if
Speaker 6: I'm behind bars, ain't nothing harmless.
Speaker 4: It's an era.
Speaker 5: Let's let's let's let's get it, let's do it, let's
Speaker 5: do it, do over.
Speaker 6: But the courts will look at all the factors, look
Speaker 6: at all the evidence and say this is harmless eraror.
Speaker 1: So in the history of your life, which, by the way, whatever,
Speaker 1: we can't say because people do crazy things. What is
Speaker 1: the likelihood from your perspective that a woman who was
Speaker 1: god immunity playing all kinds of games on the stand.
Speaker 1: You know, just I followed this case very closely. I
Speaker 1: went to the trial.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: Definitely, it appears there was some money exchange when they
Speaker 1: asked her who paid for her lawyers? She don't know.
Speaker 1: She you know, all of that, all of these things.
Speaker 1: What is the likelihood that she would get in the
Speaker 1: car with a driver who she does not know, not
Speaker 1: a driver who's she's known for years and years, driver
Speaker 1: she doesn't know, in a couple of days back and
Speaker 1: forth to court and just sit there on the phone
Speaker 1: telling people.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm the one who shot the girl.
Speaker 5: So what was the question? Was it like that she
Speaker 5: would say.
Speaker 2: Something that she would just that would be something that
Speaker 2: a judge would look at and say, oh, this.
Speaker 3: Is the judge dunkin, look at it.
Speaker 4: Look at it.
Speaker 5: Somebody's gonna bring it to the judge's tape right now.
Speaker 5: What is it likely? That's a hard question to answer.
Speaker 5: People people are stupid.
Speaker 3: Right they are? Are? They are? I swear they.
Speaker 5: Are stupid, right, And we'll all due respect. People are
Speaker 5: just stupid.
Speaker 6: And so would that be the first thing that we
Speaker 6: saw a stupid person do.
Speaker 5: No, that's why we got them stupid.
Speaker 6: So now I don't from the respective of the driver,
Speaker 6: this is what I look at it. If I'm a judge,
Speaker 6: why would you contrive a story and put yourself in
Speaker 6: a case that you never in a case before.
Speaker 3: Well that he said it's because he feels bad.
Speaker 6: Why would you make up a story? The reason why
Speaker 6: you come forward is because.
Speaker 5: You feel bad.
Speaker 6: Why you would make up something that's not true. That's
Speaker 6: a whole nother story. So the judge has to say,
Speaker 6: is this person making that up? Or did this happen?
Speaker 5: And they're coming for it because of what you said.
Speaker 4: The dynamics.
Speaker 2: Where the driver come from the driver community.
Speaker 1: And I'm for I, like I always say, and it's
Speaker 1: the same thing that I say about the situation with Paul.
Speaker 1: As much as I love him, I believe that he
Speaker 1: has to face these charges right like he has to.
Speaker 1: You can't just be like, well, I love somebody or
Speaker 1: I believe such and such, so let's just brush it. No,
Speaker 1: it don't work like that. If they are women who
Speaker 1: are saying or men saying they've been abused, I believe
Speaker 1: everybody deserves their day in court. People look at me,
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, how do you feel. I feel that
Speaker 1: if these things that people are saying, these things happen
Speaker 1: to them. I would never try to block him from
Speaker 1: having a go to court to deal with the allegations
Speaker 1: against him. I think everybody deserve every woman, every man,
Speaker 1: every person who has a story of being abused or
Speaker 1: being harmed in some way, they deserve their day in court.
Speaker 1: And that's just where I am with it. Some people
Speaker 1: will say throw it out. No, I don't believe in that.
Speaker 1: So I think that if Kelsey, if this is what's
Speaker 1: coming up, they should I want them to go down
Speaker 1: the rabbit hole, cause I think it's better.
Speaker 3: For people to be able to see it play out.
Speaker 1: Then if it feels like nothing happened and a black
Speaker 1: man was just railroaded, I understand that.
Speaker 5: I mean, that's why we have jurors, and that's why
Speaker 5: everybody has the right to.
Speaker 6: Confront their witnesses. Yeah, it's called confrontational clause. You got
Speaker 6: a right to confront and what comes out comes out.
Speaker 3: Well, that was great.
Speaker 1: It's a long interview that would have to be edited,
Speaker 1: poor Janet, But I think we did talk about some
Speaker 1: important things and I just know that, you know, I'll
Speaker 1: be trying to follow the law. I ain't saying that
Speaker 1: I get things right all the time, and I'm not
Speaker 1: talking about from a law perspective. I'm just saying in life,
Speaker 1: we all have issues, but the.
Speaker 3: Law, the rules.
Speaker 1: I be trying my best to stay within them unless
Speaker 1: I'm breaking them on behalf of our people.
Speaker 3: And other than that, I don't you know, And that's
Speaker 3: a whole other dynamic.
Speaker 6: Right, You're just talking about black on black on black
Speaker 6: on black and you got white jurorsdy and it's just like,
Speaker 6: this is what you're doing, right.
Speaker 5: There's no empathy or sympathy. That's what you're That's what
Speaker 5: y'all do. And I tell people this all the time.
Speaker 6: But if we were empowered and everything was black, we
Speaker 6: would still have the same dynamics that exists. There'll be
Speaker 6: less of blacks in the pool of blacks mm hm,
Speaker 6: and they'll be underprivileged blacks in a pool of blacks,
Speaker 6: and you still have the dynamic that you have, you
Speaker 6: know what I mean. I would love to be in
Speaker 6: that world. But you're still gonna have the same classism
Speaker 6: and the dynamics that you have. Once classism comes into play,
Speaker 6: people have different interest that's it is off. That's why
Speaker 6: only the only the best revolutions with the one where
Speaker 6: you eat well and eating as soon as you get
Speaker 6: a piece.
Speaker 5: Of slice of bread.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Attorney Royce Russell thanks for joining us, thank you for
Speaker 1: being on the TMO Show today, and just thank you
Speaker 1: for being you always, always, thank you.
Speaker 5: For having.
Speaker 2: Race gave us a lot of good feedback about how
Speaker 2: we see it, you know, because there's a lot, like
Speaker 2: I've said, there's a lot of different questions about Puffy's case,
Speaker 2: and you know, how the reco thing is working, how
Speaker 2: the sex trafficking thing works, and not a thing.
Speaker 4: It is a thing.
Speaker 1: It's not It's really not it's not. No, it's not
Speaker 1: the sex trafficking thing. I think we have to be
Speaker 1: very mindful and careful and sex trafficking charges, how reco
Speaker 1: charges and sex trafficking charges not the thing, sir?
Speaker 6: What?
Speaker 3: No, Okay, forget it. I'm wrong.
Speaker 2: I just don't understand, like we know that they're charges.
Speaker 2: I'm saying, the sex trafficking thing. The thing that it
Speaker 2: is is sex trafficking, and those happen to be charges. Well,
Speaker 2: we just got to make it this particular thing.
Speaker 3: No, it's not that.
Speaker 1: It's just that I think we have to be mindful
Speaker 1: that the level of seriousness that we apply to it
Speaker 1: when speaking is the level of seriousness that I think
Speaker 1: our people will understand. How they can be incriminating themselves.
Speaker 1: So that's the reason why I said it. But the
Speaker 1: thing is fine, It's just that I get a sense
Speaker 1: from some of our folks that, you know, to Royce's point,
Speaker 1: it won't happen.
Speaker 3: To me, or I can dibble and dabble a little bit.
Speaker 1: And to your point, our young men need to really
Speaker 1: really be mindful and women and women need to really
Speaker 1: be mindful that a little something could turn into a
Speaker 1: big something and you be messed up for a long time.
Speaker 2: It's very, very troubling, you know, when you look at
Speaker 2: the implications, when you look at the reality of what
Speaker 2: we're dealing with in just the justice system or in
Speaker 2: just black men, to see it as an injustice system.
Speaker 2: And it's not saying that this situation is injustice because
Speaker 2: a man should be held accountable for everything he does.
Speaker 4: But we just know, like you said, when.
Speaker 2: White people get twenty years, we're gonna get two hundred years.
Speaker 2: So this is just the reality. So that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: We have to be mindful of exactly what's going on.
Speaker 2: We have to understand that the legal system was never
Speaker 2: meant to show us justice or fairness. And then we
Speaker 2: also have to understand that you're going to be held
Speaker 2: accountable for the things that you do.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, and I think there are people out here
Speaker 1: that would argue Mice that when you say that, you know,
Speaker 1: it gives people a way to argue about something other
Speaker 1: than the situation, which I get your point is that
Speaker 1: that's a part of the situation. Well, right, Well, if
Speaker 1: we have to look at the situation, because I wasn't
Speaker 1: we're trying to say puff or Cassie or this person
Speaker 1: at that person, because there's so so many different people
Speaker 1: with arguments and thoughts and whatever.
Speaker 3: I'm just saying that I find whenever we.
Speaker 1: Are able to say, well, you know, the black man
Speaker 1: isn't treated fairly in the system. I noticed that a
Speaker 1: lot of people are saying that and using it as
Speaker 1: an excuse.
Speaker 2: Why I wouldn't say it's an excuse, It's just a reality.
Speaker 2: And that doesn't take away that if you do a crime,
Speaker 2: and you should be held accountable for the crime you do.
Speaker 2: But we can't ignore the fact that when you say,
Speaker 2: when we talk about a rico charge, and even though
Speaker 2: Royce said, well it doesn't they never said that it
Speaker 2: had to be other people involved in rigal. We can't
Speaker 2: ignore the fact that the only time those things didn't happen,
Speaker 2: that there weren't other co defenders, that it was two
Speaker 2: black men.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just.
Speaker 4: But that's the fact.
Speaker 1: But okay, but you didn't say that when you asked Royce,
Speaker 1: you said, I'm not one hundred percent sure, but this
Speaker 1: is what I heard, and if that is true.
Speaker 4: And when he said.
Speaker 1: We never said he never you or not because we
Speaker 1: don't know. We don't know, And what happens is that
Speaker 1: becomes if it is not true, right, that true? No,
Speaker 1: But the problem is that people never stick around for correction.
Speaker 3: They never hear that.
Speaker 1: So when we state things like that that we don't
Speaker 1: necessarily know if it's true or not, it becomes a
Speaker 1: part of this No, I.
Speaker 2: Said, we can't ignore okay, so let me change it.
Speaker 2: Let me change the verbage. We can't ignore it that
Speaker 2: if that is true, right, because I've That's why when
Speaker 2: it was that's why most of us who've been in
Speaker 2: the legal system, who are just as impacted, we're confused
Speaker 2: because I have yet to see any other reco charge
Speaker 2: with their weren't code efan.
Speaker 3: But that's a But that's the first of all, I
Speaker 3: think that.
Speaker 1: I agree with that that I usually see a bunch
Speaker 1: of people that are involved at least more than two people.
Speaker 1: But I would always caution us because what we're really
Speaker 1: saying is we haven't seen it in high profile cases
Speaker 1: because none of us us know about every case from
Speaker 1: people who live from Utah to Alabama to nobody knows that,
Speaker 1: and so you can't say what has only happened to R.
Speaker 1: Kelly and Puff when we don't know, right, perhaps from
Speaker 1: a high profile perspective, that may be the case. We
Speaker 1: don't know, but I think it's very dangerous because what
Speaker 1: happens is that becomes people's excuse instead of addressing the
Speaker 1: actual issues at hand.
Speaker 2: Ain't nobody Once again, nobody is not addressed, afraid or
Speaker 2: ignoring the issues at hand. If someone did something wrong,
Speaker 2: they should be held accountable, but nobody should ignore that.
Speaker 2: Based on the knowledge that we have that I've had,
Speaker 2: and I've seen many people. I got friends that's been
Speaker 2: locked up for ricos, I know strangers that be locked
Speaker 2: up for ricos.
Speaker 4: I have never.
Speaker 2: Seen anybody outside of those because I wasn't even thinking
Speaker 2: about the Kelly case when it was actually set until
Speaker 2: your bads brought up I got the information on your baths.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I didn't actually double check it, but I heard him
Speaker 2: say it, and he said it confidently. So if I'm
Speaker 2: wrong or if well he's wrong, then we'll correct it.
Speaker 2: But I've yet I know this for a fact. I've
Speaker 2: never seen a federal recocase where there was only one
Speaker 2: defender outside of those two situations. And I didn't even
Speaker 2: realize that they had charged l Kelly with the federal recoacher.
Speaker 2: I just never seen it before, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 2: that was something I've never seen before. So just saying
Speaker 2: it's like Dann, that's really that's really strange. But like
Speaker 2: Royce said, even though that it's something that we haven't seen,
Speaker 2: there's no criteria to say that it can't.
Speaker 1: Happen, right because because the criminal enterprise is the fact
Speaker 1: that multiple people participated in.
Speaker 3: I told you I read this. That's why I kept.
Speaker 1: Saying I was arguing with different people because I went
Speaker 1: to go read all of it so that I could
Speaker 1: understand from various perspectives what's happened. In a way, what
Speaker 1: am I seeing and what I kept reading was people
Speaker 1: who helped further further, so further means that you assisted
Speaker 1: me in doing this thing.
Speaker 3: It does not mean that you were the particular.
Speaker 1: Entity or damn subject of it, but you helped further it.
Speaker 1: So I guess what we're hearing from Royce is that
Speaker 1: as long as those people have something that corroborates or
Speaker 1: provides evidence that you were using and bringing different people
Speaker 1: into this criminal activity, then that somehow that makes their case.
Speaker 1: So that for me, again putting this particular legal matter
Speaker 1: to the side, but just sitting and focused on how
Speaker 1: we live every single day. He's saying, you picking up people,
Speaker 1: you taking them over here. They might mention this and that,
Speaker 1: and we live our lives, some of us, we all
Speaker 1: live our lives free in that you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So you got your cousin or your homie that you
Speaker 1: know he'd be into stuff all the time. But now
Speaker 1: you got him in your car and you taking him
Speaker 1: X y Z place, you a female, you know who,
Speaker 1: your boyfriend or whatever. You know, stuff is a little weird.
Speaker 1: You ain't sure exactly how he's living. And then you're
Speaker 1: moving him around, you letting him drive your car. You're
Speaker 1: doing nothing. You're innocently participating in a rico.
Speaker 4: And that's what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 3: That's the Sari.
Speaker 2: That's why I said the Rico charge was designed for
Speaker 2: you not to be able to be there.
Speaker 4: It was first initiated to rich mafia bosses.
Speaker 2: That's how they put them under the stature because a
Speaker 2: lot of people didn't want to tell on people. So
Speaker 2: they figured out a way that we can make sure
Speaker 2: that it's no way that you're not guilty of something.
Speaker 4: The fact that you know this.
Speaker 2: Person and if we have an inkland that you know
Speaker 2: him and you was aware that he was ever committed
Speaker 2: criminal acts and you still continue to deal with him,
Speaker 2: and you did anything we could connect you to that,
Speaker 2: and that's how they usually heated d Rico. What they
Speaker 2: did was even when you look at Young Thug's case,
Speaker 2: right Gunna, they never charged Gunna with anything but just
Speaker 2: being in the car, and they made him utilize his
Speaker 2: voice to say that that it was a criminal that
Speaker 2: YSL was a criminal enterprise, even though they did even
Speaker 2: say he did a crime, he was just in a car.
Speaker 2: So this is what I'm trying to say. It's not
Speaker 2: designed for you to win. It's designed for everybody that's
Speaker 2: connected to you to feel like Damn, I have to
Speaker 2: say something, even if I ain't got nothing to do it.
Speaker 2: I have to corroborate their story to make it look
Speaker 2: like there's a crime, even if it's not a crime.
Speaker 2: And that's it's just it's unfortunate because you got a
Speaker 2: bunch of people on your indictment that you don't even
Speaker 2: know they got indictments, and Rico charges people you never seen,
Speaker 2: and you're connected to that person through another person who
Speaker 2: made a phone call to another person. All these people
Speaker 2: having to be your codafitist, and when they say that
Speaker 2: they did something, they come back and say, Yo, you
Speaker 2: need to cop out because these people said this and
Speaker 2: they connected to you. And the average person is like, Yo,
Speaker 2: how the fuck do I beat this? You start looking
Speaker 2: at the criterias and you start looking at what they
Speaker 2: saying you did and then saying, well, it's saying even
Speaker 2: if you didn't know, and this and that and that
Speaker 2: and that, you're still liable. It's like, what the fuck
Speaker 2: is It's a it's an abyss. It is a fucking
Speaker 2: un You can't get to the bottom of it. Most
Speaker 2: I'm telling you, there are very few people like like
Speaker 2: you said, they're one to two percent people that actually
Speaker 2: beat the federal rico, because most people look at that
Speaker 2: shit and say, it's no where I can win.
Speaker 4: So most what happens is.
Speaker 2: People cop out because they're like, yo, I know this person,
Speaker 2: and I probably knew he was locked up before, but
Speaker 2: I think we was going to do this.
Speaker 4: My man was sitting in jail for a RICO charging.
Speaker 2: The room because the dude walks that he walked by
Speaker 2: the room and he think he's seen him sitting there, right,
Speaker 2: And somebody else said that they was gonna kill somebody,
Speaker 2: and they said that they thought they seen him in
Speaker 2: the room. He didn't have nothing to do with the murder.
Speaker 2: He didn't do anything niggative. Twenty five years, twenty five years.
Speaker 2: So this shit is is not designed for you to win.
Speaker 1: And that's the problem with these types of cases is
Speaker 1: that it's triggering other conversations that you know, because when
Speaker 1: I get down to the bottom line in different dialogues
Speaker 1: with people, and a lot of people, like I said,
Speaker 1: they won't bring this case up to me, not really
Speaker 1: because they understand, you know, what issues I have in
Speaker 1: terms of not having people going and reporting that to
Speaker 1: Meek Mallory said this, that and the third thing, we're
Speaker 1: not doing that right.
Speaker 3: And so they know.
Speaker 1: But men, some of the men in my life have
Speaker 1: had extensive conversations and I realize as I'm talking to them,
Speaker 1: they're dealing with a trauma that is far beyond this case.
Speaker 1: But then that trauma, and I guess women do this
Speaker 1: as well, becomes a part of another. And and I'm saying, like,
Speaker 1: just hear yourself. Hear what you're saying. Say that back
Speaker 1: to yourself and put your son or your daughter or
Speaker 1: whatever in that situation. And then they'll be like, well,
Speaker 1: that's not exactly you know what I mean. So I'm
Speaker 1: saying all of that to say, we just need to
Speaker 1: be very careful. And I know for a fact that
Speaker 1: when I was seventy, it's in my book. I write
Speaker 1: about it in the book, finding out that this guy
Speaker 1: that I was dating, who I was so in love with,
Speaker 1: who was definitely older than me, the man had drugs
Speaker 1: in the and money money. I don't think he had drugs,
Speaker 1: he had money in the floor of his house right
Speaker 1: on edgecomb Avenue, had money in the in the in
Speaker 1: the floor of his house.
Speaker 3: And I'm just the.
Speaker 1: Just walking around like nothing, moving around with zip ties
Speaker 1: and laundry bags in the trunk, and I'm just happy
Speaker 1: to be there, knowing, knowing my son that I don't
Speaker 1: have anything to do with any of this. So when
Speaker 1: they asked me, I'm going to say, I don't know
Speaker 1: nothing about that, and they gotta let me go because
Speaker 1: I'm not on no tape. I didn't go nowhere, I
Speaker 1: didn't do nothing. And what I'm hearing is it don't
Speaker 1: work like that.
Speaker 4: Don't work like that, do not work like that.
Speaker 2: They're gonna you saw something with you telling us you
Speaker 2: saw the money, because we need you to testify that you.
Speaker 3: But I don't want to testify it because I don't
Speaker 3: even know.
Speaker 2: That's where the rico comes in, because the fact that
Speaker 2: you saw the money and the money was part of
Speaker 2: this criminal enterprise, and you saw zip ties and and
Speaker 2: you saw those things, and you your your logical mind
Speaker 2: should have told you that there was a legal activity.
Speaker 3: And if I really didn't think to swear and it.
Speaker 2: Took me, you should have thought it. And if we're
Speaker 2: gonna say, if you don't testify to what you saw,
Speaker 2: then we're gonna say that you was accomplished. And that's
Speaker 2: how it that, that's how that's what they do. So
Speaker 2: that's what I'm trying to tell you. That's why it's
Speaker 2: not it's not designed.
Speaker 4: For us to win.
Speaker 2: But it's also triggering, right because you know, as a
Speaker 2: black man, and you look at whether they're guilty or not,
Speaker 2: it just seems to me like all of our black
Speaker 2: men who reach a certain status, it's something that has
Speaker 2: to do with sexual assault. It's not all I'm talking
Speaker 2: the ones, the ones that they eliminate, the ones that
Speaker 2: have eliminated. It's the same situation. And I'm not saying
Speaker 2: it's not true or whatever. I'm just saying when we
Speaker 2: look at the top men who have been eliminated, is
Speaker 2: around the same thing. And it's like, damn, It's just.
Speaker 1: It's like, but I think that that is a conversation.
Speaker 3: For It's a conversation that needs to be had.
Speaker 1: Yes, is the system problematic, for sure, But it's also
Speaker 1: about the choices that we.
Speaker 3: Make, and when.
Speaker 1: We mix drugs with money and power, the lines get
Speaker 1: real blurred and a lot of things happen, and then
Speaker 1: you have stupidity. Also because I'm gonna say, until the
Speaker 1: wheels fall off the bus that Shannon Sharp, that was
Speaker 1: just stupid. And I'm not talking about drugs or any
Speaker 1: of that. I'm not accusing him of anything like that,
Speaker 1: But I'm just saying, the judgment of being fifty something
Speaker 1: and getting yourself involved with a nineteen whatever age, twenty
Speaker 1: year old, nothing good can come of it. It's just
Speaker 1: no way that it's gonna work out for you because eventually,
Speaker 1: to Elliott Connie's point, you're using them purely for sex, purely,
Speaker 1: and guess what happens. Eventually they use you back, and
Speaker 1: you might not like the way you're used back.
Speaker 3: And by the way, they don't have anything to lose.
Speaker 4: And I hear everything you're saying.
Speaker 3: So we gotta be more mindful of the choices we made.
Speaker 2: Reality is most of the eighty year old Richmon. We
Speaker 2: know it's dating forty women forty and fifty years young.
Speaker 3: Why do y'all not understand.
Speaker 2: I'm just telling you. I'm not saying we don't understand.
Speaker 2: We already established we understand. It's a different playbook.
Speaker 1: No, that's not what I'm saying. Is but that wasn't
Speaker 1: what I was going to say. Why do y'all not
Speaker 1: understand that there is a difference in the mind of
Speaker 1: a nineteen twenty year old and a forty year old,
Speaker 1: so you can be.
Speaker 2: You don't think it's a difference in a month of
Speaker 2: if I'm eighty and you're thirty.
Speaker 4: No, you don't think that.
Speaker 3: You're no thirty, thirty, thirty.
Speaker 4: These eighty year olds is dad in twenty three and
Speaker 4: twenty four?
Speaker 1: And I think that that's a problem. I think that's
Speaker 1: a problem. But I'm saying. What I'm saying is that
Speaker 1: if I'm forty and even thirty something and you're eighty
Speaker 1: or your seventy, that is a big different. Friends, between
Speaker 1: you being forty and fifty and this per and this
Speaker 1: person woman or man nineteen.
Speaker 4: His mine may be depraved. He's getting he's losing his
Speaker 4: he's losing his forty year old.
Speaker 3: As you start getting eighty, ad man, Yeah, as.
Speaker 4: You start getting older, your mind you losing capacity. Actually
Speaker 4: a lot of men are losing Why not.
Speaker 3: You don't think it's okay?
Speaker 2: You don't think so, because y'all as you know that
Speaker 2: you we know that that woman.
Speaker 3: Is pure eighty years old.
Speaker 2: We know that the average eighty twenty something year old woman,
Speaker 2: that's what the eighty old man is there for one reason,
Speaker 2: this is the bottom line, that's it.
Speaker 1: Well, and then guess what happens when the man throw
Speaker 1: you out and mistreat you.
Speaker 3: I don't want to hear it, but you're gonna.
Speaker 2: Hear it, because what happens is they gonna say that
Speaker 2: something went wrong and you still got a man still
Speaker 2: gonna be held accountable. So that's his the reect. So
Speaker 2: that pretty much brings me to my I don't get it.
Speaker 2: Like I asked Royce about, you know, the situation with
Speaker 2: Meg and the new evidence in Tory Lane's case, I
Speaker 2: just don't get why Kelsey is not being arrested right.
Speaker 2: And my theory behind it is this, I still you know,
Speaker 2: am I believe that you know, the court got it right.
Speaker 2: That's just my personal opinion. It's based off the evidence
Speaker 2: that I've seen, based off the conversation, based off the
Speaker 2: text message from Kelsey, her testimony, the gun where it
Speaker 2: was at, all these things, him saying on Instagram that
Speaker 2: underneath her post that she didn't do all these things
Speaker 2: led me to believe that the course got it right.
Speaker 2: But let's say they didn't right. Let's say she did
Speaker 2: shoot us. Let's say all these things happened. She's guilty
Speaker 2: of perjury. She didn't shoot her, then she's still guilty
Speaker 2: of instructing justice because she had an opportunity. She still
Speaker 2: has the opportunity to tell the reality of what happened.
Speaker 2: The statement that she gave to the DA and to
Speaker 2: the investigators prior to the trial, which was her in court,
Speaker 2: pretty much aligned with what Meg had said. Right then
Speaker 2: when she went to court, obviously something changed and she
Speaker 2: was being evasive, trying to plead the fifth All types
Speaker 2: of things came there with a lawyer, you know, was
Speaker 2: granted immunity.
Speaker 4: All these things.
Speaker 2: Changed, right, So whatever happened in that dynamic, she was
Speaker 2: intentionally trying to obstruct justice. And if she got on
Speaker 2: that stand and she shot that lady and she didn't.
Speaker 2: When she was asked, did she shoot Meghan, she said no.
Speaker 2: And if they're saying now that there's evidence saying that
Speaker 2: she did, and it's going to be presented, then she
Speaker 2: should be either charged with shooting her and them saying
Speaker 2: that she lied about saying that she didn't shoot up.
Speaker 2: And if she didn't shoot up, then she should be
Speaker 2: forced to actually have to give the real account of
Speaker 2: what happened openly in a trial.
Speaker 1: And but we didn't get a chance to ask Royce
Speaker 1: once you had immunity, No, but we did, because.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we did say he said that. It's a whole
Speaker 2: different thing. It's obstructing justice that you it's perjury because
Speaker 2: if you get.
Speaker 1: Immunity, that's just because you have immunity is for the
Speaker 1: purpose of you telling the truth, no matter how incriminate,
Speaker 1: and it.
Speaker 2: Is exactly and if they find out that you lied
Speaker 2: anytime during giving that statement, then the community goes out
Speaker 2: the window. Right, that's what they do, like they give
Speaker 2: they have had my bosses say, they say, tell us
Speaker 2: all about everybody, and we're gonna give you immunity, and
Speaker 2: everything is covered. If they find out one thing outside
Speaker 2: of that is not covered in an immunity, right, they
Speaker 2: find out you lied about one of those things, then
Speaker 2: the whole thing goes off the table.
Speaker 4: So in this situation, this lady committed perjury. One way
Speaker 4: or another.
Speaker 2: She committed perjury and she's obstructed justice. And I think
Speaker 2: you know, Tory Lane's trying to figure out how to
Speaker 2: get home. He's gonna figure out everything, he gonna pull
Speaker 2: every stop. That's what happens when you're in prison, right,
Speaker 2: wrong difference, nobody wants to sit in jail for ten years.
Speaker 2: She is the only person that has made testimony who
Speaker 2: has flip flopped, and she's been accused of actually the
Speaker 2: actual shooting, and she's not being held accountable to even
Speaker 2: tell the full account would happen on anything, And I
Speaker 2: think at this point she is the person that should
Speaker 2: be in jail.
Speaker 4: I think Megan was trying to get justice for her.
Speaker 4: She believed that this happened.
Speaker 3: I don't think to be in jail.
Speaker 4: She should be in jail.
Speaker 3: I think, Kelsey, you think she.
Speaker 4: Should be doing I'm saying, if you're going you do you.
Speaker 3: Believe that a trial should take place.
Speaker 4: I believe this. I believe this. I think there should
Speaker 4: be a hearing.
Speaker 2: But I think either one of these two things makes
Speaker 2: you more comfortable than anybody to me, because if you
Speaker 2: are the person who were trying to shoot Meg and
Speaker 2: Tory and you allowed him to go to jail for
Speaker 2: shooting her, then you should be in jail, which is
Speaker 2: not I don't based on evidence, I don't really see that.
Speaker 2: But if that's what it is, and we find out
Speaker 2: that's true, then she should be in jail. If you
Speaker 2: weren't the person and you're allowing this evidence to come out,
Speaker 2: you're allowing this continue to be put into the universe
Speaker 2: without being given clarification. Then it's more than likely to
Speaker 2: me you took the bride, right, So I think you
Speaker 2: either took the money and you're trying whatever it is.
Speaker 2: You are instructing justice and you need to go to jail.
Speaker 2: And I don't think I don't think that nobody's paying
Speaker 2: attention to it. I think you know, Meg, No, really
Speaker 2: they're not. They're just most people saying Meg lide and
Speaker 2: Meg did this, and nobody's really focusing on Kelsey. There's
Speaker 2: no there's really no backlash for Kelsey. I don't really
Speaker 2: see anybody on when I go on these says, oh
Speaker 2: Meg lit she did this, she did this, and Kelsey
Speaker 2: is not getting to me. Kelsey is more cultortable than
Speaker 2: anybody else. And I think people should be calling for
Speaker 2: her to be arrested and for her to actually be
Speaker 2: charged with obstructing justice. And I think when you do that,
Speaker 2: we'll start getting to the bottom of it, actually what happened,
Speaker 2: because I don't understand for the life of me, how
Speaker 2: Tory Lane sat there and said he was trying to
Speaker 2: protect her when she openly said text message saying that
Speaker 2: he shot her, that he shot Meg, said he beat
Speaker 2: her up, he had he listened to a whole testimony
Speaker 2: of her, a whole tape of her giving a statement
Speaker 2: saying that he was the shooter. I don't what are
Speaker 2: you trying to protect him for? Right, Well, why wouldn't
Speaker 2: you get up there and save your name? I would
Speaker 2: never do it. I don't know anybody.
Speaker 4: Else that's that brave or that heroic. Right.
Speaker 2: You can't say that you were trying to protect Meg
Speaker 2: in my system, because you spent over a year gas
Speaker 2: lighting the woman, saying that it was gonna come out
Speaker 2: in court and the truth would be known and all
Speaker 2: these things, and you didn't do those things. So when
Speaker 2: you now, all of a sudden you were trying to
Speaker 2: protect two black women, it doesn't really make sense to me.
Speaker 2: But let's say that theory is true. Kelsey should be
Speaker 2: in jail. That's just my position at this point. It's like,
Speaker 2: come on, girl, you you you had the power to
Speaker 2: stop whatever it was if you shot him, and you
Speaker 2: shot her and this and that you had the opportunity
Speaker 2: to do anything right. If you didn't shoot her, you
Speaker 2: had the opportunity to come forward and say just be clear.
Speaker 2: But you you're allowing this, for whatever reason, you're allowing
Speaker 2: this to go too far, and you're just quiet. And
Speaker 2: I don't think she should have the right to just
Speaker 2: be quiet about the situation that's affected somebody's life, affecting
Speaker 2: other people's life. That you could just go home. Megan's
Speaker 2: gonna be called a liar and this and that, Tori's
Speaker 2: gonna be in jail and people are gonna say that
Speaker 2: he shouldn't be there. There's gonna be all of this
Speaker 2: stuff that people are dealing with, and you're just sitting
Speaker 2: in the house and you're the main piece of this
Speaker 2: and there's no consequences for nothing that you've done. I
Speaker 2: just don't think that's okay, Okay, just my personal.
Speaker 3: Position, I don't.
Speaker 1: I just feel like we're living in a world that
Speaker 1: is so weird that I don't even know how to
Speaker 1: discuss it. There's nothing, there's no amount of money you
Speaker 1: could pay me to make me believe that that woman
Speaker 1: was in the car with a man she don't know,
Speaker 1: that she just met, and that she just said in
Speaker 1: front of that man casually that she was the person
Speaker 1: responsible for killing or excuse me for shooting Meggie Stallion.
Speaker 3: There is nothing nobody could pay me.
Speaker 1: But to your point, just like I said about all
Speaker 1: these other people, if someone brings that type of charge
Speaker 1: against you, or they feel like they know and they
Speaker 1: think they can prove it, they deserve to have their
Speaker 1: day in court. And so I want to see it
Speaker 1: play out. I want to see it play out anyway,
Speaker 1: As I already said that, I want to see it
Speaker 1: play out because I want I just want to see
Speaker 1: it play out. I want to see what happens with
Speaker 1: the court. I want to see it all display out too.
Speaker 2: But I'm gonna give a breakdown on my YouTube page
Speaker 2: about this because I really have real deep conversation. I
Speaker 2: don't want to go dive too deep into it here,
Speaker 2: but it's just a lot. It's really it's really telling
Speaker 2: where we are in media, social media, just in this world,
Speaker 2: and how a narrative can be spun so deep that
Speaker 2: it's in this rabbit hole that the facts get so
Speaker 2: muddy and misconstrued that people ignore the facts and we
Speaker 2: just deal with the fiction. And people understand that there
Speaker 2: are people like Donald Trump who understands that I don't
Speaker 2: have to tell the truth, right, I get to say
Speaker 2: what the fuck I want, and y'all gonna grab it.
Speaker 2: Nobody cares about the truth is if it's more entertaining,
Speaker 2: if it lie is more entertaining, people want to grab
Speaker 2: onto something. And if I continue to throw out bullshit
Speaker 2: and just say bullshit and y'all grab on to it
Speaker 2: without doing any research or anything, that's what happens. People
Speaker 2: are saying, oh, her body this is this is her
Speaker 2: quote unquote bodyguard.
Speaker 4: Kelsey didn't have a bodyguard.
Speaker 2: This is a driver who drove, drove to her, drove
Speaker 2: with her for probably about an hour or two hours
Speaker 2: within the two days period to go to court in home. Right,
Speaker 2: this is within the two But they say this is
Speaker 2: her bodyguard. Nobody even is doing the research to say, no, oh,
Speaker 2: this was.
Speaker 4: The driver who drove he to court. Where did this
Speaker 4: driver even come from her?
Speaker 3: Where did she get a She didn't know how, she
Speaker 3: didn't know.
Speaker 2: She didn't even know who paid for her lawyers. They
Speaker 2: asked her, pay for your lawyer?
Speaker 4: Maybe she was and then she was, or don't know.
Speaker 1: This man and the man and the man sat there
Speaker 1: heard this with a person. He doesn't know that he
Speaker 1: has no particular loyalty he doesn't know her. And another
Speaker 1: man was going through this and he sat there and said, Nah,
Speaker 1: you know, I ain't gonna say nothing because I'm loyal
Speaker 1: to this girl who's in here ad knitting in front
Speaker 1: of me.
Speaker 3: Y'all got it. I mean, if that's what y'all want
Speaker 3: to run with, I'm cool with it.
Speaker 1: I'm not I wouldn't sit here and say, oh, this
Speaker 1: is stupid that it needs to just be dismissed. No,
Speaker 1: I think they should go right on down the Let's
Speaker 1: all I know is that, did you I went to court.
Speaker 3: That's all I'm gonna keep saying. So I went to court,
Speaker 3: and I know.
Speaker 1: What the jury heard and all of the ship that
Speaker 1: that gets the social media jury, that's not the one
Speaker 1: that be in the court, and the court is the
Speaker 1: real jury.
Speaker 3: Right now? Can juries be biased? Absolutely?
Speaker 1: Did this jury just see him as a black man
Speaker 1: that they want to send to jail from the look
Speaker 1: the makeup of the jurors.
Speaker 3: I don't think so.
Speaker 1: But it's possible that there was some bias in every
Speaker 1: single one of those jurors. Mine that was of a
Speaker 1: cross section of racial backgrounds.
Speaker 3: It's not like the white, all white jury.
Speaker 1: You know, this is it was a cross stction of
Speaker 1: individuals where they biased and they just want to throw
Speaker 1: them in jail. Cool was the judge paid off? And
Speaker 1: because you know that'sn't gonna be their thing. Rock Nation
Speaker 1: paid for the prosecutor, the judge, the jury, everything, every
Speaker 1: single body, every party.
Speaker 4: If you could say, it becomes fact.
Speaker 3: Don and I.
Speaker 1: But I pray that they find a way to prove
Speaker 1: every other people.
Speaker 3: Wrong if they can.
Speaker 1: And after all, I'm just leaving at that because tell
Speaker 1: you the truth.
Speaker 3: I think.
Speaker 1: I think focus, I sit back and I listen, and
Speaker 1: I see certain things in certain people, and I just
Speaker 1: say to myself.
Speaker 2: Wow, we're in some very strange times. Wow, we're in
Speaker 2: very strange times. But there's that man that brings us
Speaker 2: to an end of another episode of t M. I
Speaker 2: make sure you continue to follow us. Tell us you
Speaker 2: love us, tell us you hate us.
Speaker 3: They don't. I don't know why you welcome people to tell.
Speaker 4: Us because I don't I want to be loved that.
Speaker 1: Hey, you should tell them to tell you that on
Speaker 1: your page, but don't come tell me you hate me.
Speaker 3: I don't need to know. I'm sorry, not interested.
Speaker 2: Make sure you follow us and tell us what you
Speaker 2: want to hear from us, tell us you love me.
Speaker 2: Don't tell her you hate her, Just tell her you
Speaker 2: love her. And let us know who you want us
Speaker 2: to interview. Tell us what you like, what you don't like.
Speaker 2: We just want to hear from you. Continue to make
Speaker 2: us the number one podcast in the world. Make sure
Speaker 2: you follow us on Instagram at tami Underscore Show and
Speaker 2: then follow us on YouTube at TMI Show PC.
Speaker 4: We love you. I'm not gonna always be right, Tamika
Speaker 4: d marriage and I can always be
Speaker 2: Wrong, but we both always and I mean always be
Speaker 2: authentic pace That's how we